The guy dug a hole, jumped in headfirst and suffered the consequences. I agree with JR that this should be made a sticky and is good background knowledge about the importance of building a real relationship, using lawyers properly, protecting oneself and being aware od how the VAWA can be utilized by immigrant women.
Incidentally, I liked the woman's body language with the boyfriend and the way she looked while he was kissing her in front of that elevator. Any bets on how long that relationship will last?
Incidentally, I liked the woman's body language with the boyfriend and the way she looked while he was kissing her in front of that elevator. Any bets on how long that relationship will last?
Now can someone tell me why the words of the first two speakers in the videos were simultaneously shown on the screen, while the words of the younger guys without any accent were not dubbed? Is their accent so strong that Americans would not be able to understand what they were saying?It does, though all the participants' English is very well understandable.
After that, do you really think that accent does not matter?
Now can someone tell me why the words of the first two speakers in the videos were simultaneously shown on the screen, while the words of the younger guys without any accent were not dubbed? Is their accent so strong that Americans would not be able to understand what they were saying?
After that, do you really think that accent does not matter?
It does, though all the participants' English is very well understandable.
I guess, it depends on the author.
I didn't understand the detail with $250,000. How was he risking it?
The $250,000 was the amount she was suing him for. The lawsuit was on account of the abuse she claimed he did to her right before the police arrived.
Was it a joint account?
No, he had a retirement account that he had been contributing into over the years.Were they divorced at this time? Prenups only start working after the divorce is final, I guess.
He had a pre-nuptial agreement that limited her to $1000 or $2000 a month (something like that) and the use of his apartment. She tried to get this overturned and get more money. But when the judge found out all that was going on he not only did not give her more money but he ended what money she was getting and told her she had to leave the apartment. She lost. That was when she sued him in another court about the supposed abuse. She wanted $250,000.
Avi's former wife also received my attention as a protective person. To me, she is a good example of a decent woman who is on her man's side, albeit a former one.
My understanding would be that years ago, they immigrated together with Avi. Would that be right? How come that he lost her?
Suddenly she had a problem with her oldest son being kept in Azerbaijan on account of the draft. It would take money to make this problem go away. Also she developed sudden dental problems with lots of pain. Avi sent money. I seen the receipts. Around $7000 I recall. Later after she got here she needed to go back to Azerbaijan to get her youngest son and do some more dental work. This is when she asked for more money.Nothing wrong with it.
judging from the expressions on some peoples faces I get the impression that Ilana has disturbed their stereotypes of what they think Russian women are like.What "some people" and what are these "stereotypes of what they think Russian women are like"?
Avi, Ilana and their two sons Alex (shown) and Ron came to America in the late eighties as Jewish immigrants....
Isn't there a saying that goes something like this.." The average person learns from his mistakes. A wise person learns from the mistakes of others."
Only a Russian man would be able to leave an attractive, well groomed wife as Zoya is, for a person who is just younger than Zoya.
Only a Russian man would be able to leave an attractive, well groomed wife as Zoya is, for a person who is just younger than Zoya.That's not true! Come on- "only Russian man"!
What "some people" and what are these "stereotypes of what they think Russian women are like"?
Russian (BTW Ilana is not Russian))) woman are like what?
Is Michael, Zoya's husband and Yelena's lover, also Russian? I think he is. Only a Russian man would be able to leave an attractive, well groomed wife as Zoya is, for a person who is just younger than Zoya.
Actually I agree with Lily- Ilana didn't disturb the stereotype as she left her husband for a "better man".
I am sure there were some other reasons but Maxx is pushing Ivy's being busy with the store. So, "noble" Ilanda left her husband because of his work.
Not so?
I know what it is - I mean a very busy man, because I am married to one. I have to be "more noble" I guess.
Come on, people! She left him and this is what happened.
BTW, Yelena did same but with some "k-1 visa flavor".
I know, it is not nice to say that, but again- this is what happened 2 times to Ivy.
What would be her motive to come on camera like this? It takes guts.We can only guess. She did leave Avi for a "better man", didn't she? Ah, yes- there is a big difference between marriage of 30 years and just months. The result is same.
He sure is. Zoya is about ten years older than Michael. He and Yelena were about the same age. Early forties I believe. Avi and Zoya are about the same age. Early Mid to later fifties. Avi being the older.
We can only guess. She did leave Avi for a "better man", didn't she? Ah, yes- there is a big difference between marriage of 30 years and just months. The result is same.
I am not justifying Yelena though.
Ilana is sure that Yelena is a gold digger and she herself is not.Then why - "she just met a doctor"? :-\
How can you possibly know this?What do you mean- how? She said it herself, then Maxx added that Avi " was always busy with his store". BTW, the store " was going south" at this time, so put 2 and 2 together.
Avi would be the much "better" man by a country mile.Yet, his first wife left him. Not so? His business was failing, he was completely lonely.
Avi is a victim of lies and deceit by both Yelena and her new man. You've gone over the top is trying to play the devils advocate here Doll.Not at all. I agree Avi had a bad luck, and Yelena and her bf are immoral.
Not at all. I agree Avi had a bad luck, and Yelena and her bf are immoral.
I just made a remark about Ilana.
And it's a valid observation. Ilana may very well have been devoted until the ship began to sink. Entirely possible she traded up. It's also possible that Avi came home and brought the stresses of the business to his wife and took it out on her, which is something that she may be above discussing. There's a considerable amount of space between the lines of this synopsis for interpretive reading.Yes, this is what I read "between the lines". Business like this doesn't fail over night- it takes time, and Ilana definitely saw it coming. Though anything could happen.
What do you mean- how? She said it herself, then Maxx added that Avi " was always busy with his store". BTW, the store " was going south" at this time, so put 2 and 2 together.
Ah, we still are the family"! Sure. Ilana is married to a doctor. 8) Avi was desperately lonely, he just wanted to be with somebody. He said it himself.
Yet, his first wife left him. Not so? His business was failing, he was completely lonely.
Now she is defending him.
I do feel bad for Avi, but I can see why Ilana "had guts" to come to the camera.
Bottom line- it was a bad luck. I personally don't see how he could detect the red flags. Yelena is a good actress, I believe.
BTW, I remember the story on "Russian Women Abroad" when a woman was looking for a man in the same place where he daughter lived- just to be close to her. The woman was hunting only men from that area and she succeeded. She married him on K-1 visa, then left him 1 or 2 years ago. I don't think she wanted to leave like that, but it did happen.
Same case- she used the man. No DVC though.
Avi and Ilana's divorce or the reasons for it is not what causes Yelena's deceitNo.
Avi created most of his own bad luck here, no doubt. However, this doesn't allow Yelena off the hook. She is a deceitful liar and a thief. Avi is only guilty of being horny and stupid. ;)I agree, yet I don't know if he could see anything wrong.
Faux Pas, I don't know about my marriage if the divorce happens. Can't think of myself :D
I am not defending Yelena and her BF, I am just commenting Maxx's words about Ilanda.
What happened to Avi is terrible.
Just a question- why did he apply to Immigration Service so many times? Ok, fraud is bad, but how could it help him? I am not sure how it works.
Jews have lived in Azerbaijan for centuries, GQ. Garry Kasparov's father was an Azeri Jew. The "Muslim" countries of the FSU do not have the same problems with Jews as Arab countries do.
So you ask us what do we think of that? I'd say the story is telling us that no maturity, no age differences, no common language and cultures can save anyone from abuse and betrayal. That's what it is about.
Bottom line- it was a bad luck. I personally don't see how he could detect the red flags. Yelena is a good actress, I believe.Only red flags were that she had motives for getting herself and her 2 sons out of the country. That was probable driving force for her actions. Her 2 men partners were just stepping stones for her goals. The AM always needs to analyze the goals of the RW's children and their future interests. She was not great looking and with 2 older sons, she could fall in the "desperate" category. Opportunities for her and her family would be better here.
Just a question- why did he apply to Immigration Service so many times? Ok, fraud is bad, but how could it help him? I am not sure how it works.
Absolutely. This largely have more to do, and greatly in common with, with men who travel to FSU searching for someone to fill a void in their sorry lives. Instead of spending productive time to 'better oneself' and change their current social status quo, they instead hurl the blame at the women in their lair and seek out a stranger from another country out of desperation. That state of mind is the evil that lurks in these relationships.
A lonely and desperate person will always be a very insecure bloke. The process AMs have to go through to import a void filler and immigrate her here is a path that easily gives an impression 'he's doing everything for her'. Mix that with the fact he's lonely and desperate to begin with, it's the perfect recipe for the creation of a highly controlling John Frankenstein. And yes, these women aren't rocks. Honest intentions have very little to do with it. They're human beings. They will awake from a nightmare just like any other. It won't take them a whole lot of time to see for themselves and fully understand the REAL reason why many of these men are in places like the FSU looking for 'wives' to begin with. These men may feel significant and get attention while in FSU, but they will all have to come back home AND reality. Only this time, sexy Olga gets to 'live' with 'his' reality for as long as livable.
The subliminal definition behind the phrase 'traditional women' are 'submissive', dependent & helplessness. Perfect companion for one who is lonely, desperate and controlling. AWs have done away with these silliness and these men know that full well...so they search in FSU.
I agree, yet I don't know if he could see anything wrong.
I myself asked money for my older son's military service, also J. sent me money for some hospital stuff. It was less than $7,000 but close. What else could be the "signs"? Nothing.
It was a bad luck.
Maxx-
1) Avi's first mistake was marry someone from Azerbaijan. Fun wedding ceremony that must have been...Azerbaijan is technically a Muslim nation. He's Jewish for chrissakes...
2) Also, Avi pointed at his forehead to describe the scratches on his ex-wife's neck and cheek...considering that alleged scratches were the reason why the police deemed she was telling the truth to cause for his arrest, one would think the location of the scratches will be heavily ingrained upon his memory, no?
Her attorney wanted to bargain for $1,000.00 plus a green card as leverage for a 'peaceful' divorce seem rather strange. At that point, IMHO, I would have paid the $1,000.00 and added monies to hire that silly attorney. They already filed the AOS, and very likely her conditional GC was well on the way. Removal of the condition do hinges on their marriage however things do happen that may be out of their control. That in itself, if given proper presentation may prove they did try to make the marriage work but just couldn't do it. Any good attorney certainly can make this case that such circmstances shouldn't be a cause of deportation. I know a couple who had this happen here in LA and they both hired an immigration attorney and was successful in helping her stay. To come out and say the marriage wasn't working out and be honest to DHS from the get-go (as opposed to staying married despite the fact just to earn the removal - which to me IS fraud) and try to find an amicable way to keep her status here was what they chose to do. They did, and took the chance and were both legitimately rewarded. There's no fraud in honestly giving a marriage a chance. Failing upon doing so doesn't make a marriage fraudulent.
3) Just saying....could it be that Avi was far too emotional to yield an ounce of sense, or, too controlling and lost sight of the fact that if he in fact wanted a 'peaceful' divorce, this was the very best opportunity for him to pursue? Was his definition of a 'peaceful' divorce was file the papers and deport the woman?
Yes, money is not an issue inside a relationship (I mean the giving, not problems caused by a lack thereof)... but, Doll, did you refuse to eat with your husband, or avoid him on a daily basis? I think that is an enormous warning indicator of things to come and one that anyone should have been able to see.
Yes, this is what I read "between the lines". Business like this doesn't fail over night- it takes time, and Ilana definitely saw it coming. Though anything could happen.
I know the families where the wives just got tired of being "home alone", so they left.
It does happen, but then don't come to the camera with this tearing story.
This is what caught my eye, Lily's too.
I do understand that the goal was to show how nice Avi was, but please- Ilana is noble?
Noble wives do not trade their husbands (in most cases). What I see- is how she hates this K-1 stuff. Did you hear what she said about RW on fiancee visa versus Mexican aliens?
This is what was the focus of her defending after "Avi is not abusive" . It is a very "sensitive material" 8)
Here's my take on the entire situation: If you find yourself in the same or simular position, "GIVE HER THE DAMN GREEN CARD!!!" In the end it would have cost far less and in terms of finances and grief. As I recall Avi lost his job, apartment, investigative costs and attornies fees. In addition to that he had to suffer arrest and jail. How sad, all because he refused to give her a green card.
I understand that Boethius. The remark was more tongue in cheek. The Soviet were religiously oppressive and thus people's religion became almost irrelevant. So yes FSU folks' mentality with cross-religion union likely have far less significance than in the US or even the western hemisphere. However, it didn't escaped my wife's amusement after I mentioned this case with her, knowing what she knows how these things are looked upon today and here...an ex-boyfried of hers is Muslim.
Absolutely. This largely have more to do, and greatly in common with, with men who travel to FSU searching for someone to fill a void in their sorry lives. Instead of spending productive time to 'better oneself' and change their current social status quo, they instead hurl the blame at the women in their lair and seek out a stranger from another country out of desperation. That state of mind is the evil that lurks in these relationships.
A lonely and desperate person will always be a very insecure bloke. The process AMs have to go through to import a void filler and immigrate her here is a path that easily gives an impression 'he's doing everything for her'. Mix that with the fact he's lonely and desperate to begin with, it's the perfect recipe for the creation of a highly controlling John Frankenstein. And yes, these women aren't rocks. Honest intentions have very little to do with it. They're human beings. They will awake from a nightmare just like any other. It won't take them a whole lot of time to see for themselves and fully understand the REAL reason why many of these men are in places like the FSU looking for 'wives' to begin with. These men may feel significant and get attention while in FSU, but they will all have to come back home AND reality. Only this time, sexy Olga gets to 'live' with 'his' reality for as long as livable.
The subliminal definition behind the phrase 'traditional women' are 'submissive', dependent & helplessness. Perfect companion for one who is lonely, desperate and controlling. AWs have done away with these silliness and these men know that full well...so they search in FSU.
GQ,
essentially you are arguing that because Avi was lonely and desperate, and/or not a good catch, that Yelena was justified in her actions of commiting immigration fraud. in fact you go beyond even that, implying that Yelena had to wake up from her "nightmare", and that Avi was probably "controlling". you ignore the overwhelming evidence that Yelena intended to commit immigration fraud from the beginning, and did so. but she was not happy to do just that, she also had to falsely accuse him of domestic violence, to satisfy her enormous ego about her own self importance. the fact that you would take her point of view in this debacle is pathetic. why do you think that criminals should be rewarded?? do you think that we have laws on the books only to be defiled and spit upon??
Sorry folks my internet crashed last night and I lost a rather lengthy post I had written in responce to GQ's. post.
I didn't take it that GQ was arguing this at all. What he was saying is there is consequences for not being in the right condition mentally, emotionally and financially to do this process.
GQ, I think you mentioned that Nat had a reaction when you mentioned Avi and his troubles with a Azerbaijani wife. If she doesn't mind could you fill us more in on her thoughts?Her reaction was solely isolated in the religion aspect of what I mentioned. She have more than a few friends in Novosibirsk who are Muslims. Mostly from Azerbaijan. She was born in Uzbekistan, moved and grew up in Tarjikistan before her family settled in Novo.
2) Brain scatter, ramblings and Russian problems with gender identification
I spent dozens of hours talking with Avi and hundreds of hours editing his interviews. I have spent so much time thinking about this case. I noticed that Avi would have episodes of what I call brain scatter. There were times he would suddenly not focus on what he was trying to communicate but would say whatever would pop up into his mind. He would go off on tangents filling me on all kinds of unimportant details. He would get excited. It was a real edit job to get this story told.There are times one can easily determine what is burning from the color of the smoke a'churnin'. I need for you to please read what you stated carefully and very closely from the point of view of a newly arrived, highly dependent and helpless foreigner.
3) Pride verses Practicality of cutting a deal Avi wasn't alone in making his decision to try and deny her a green card. He had talks about what was going on with Ilana, their two sons, Elizabeth the attorney and later Zoya. All were of the opinion Yelena did not deserve a green card.
GQ,
essentially you are arguing that because Avi was lonely and desperate, and/or not a good catch, that Yelena was justified in her actions of commiting immigration fraud. in fact you go beyond even that, implying that Yelena had to wake up from her "nightmare", and that Avi was probably "controlling". you ignore the overwhelming evidence that Yelena intended to commit immigration fraud from the beginning, and did so. but she was not happy to do just that, she also had to falsely accuse him of domestic violence, to satisfy her enormous ego about her own self importance. the fact that you would take her point of view in this debacle is pathetic. why do you think that criminals should be rewarded?? do you think that we have laws on the books only to be defiled and spit upon??
Thanks for the fairly long response Maxx. I will make a special note of the civility I found your post to be in...that’s a very good sign, Maxx.
Hi Maxx2,
is anything being done to change this current situation which allows women to commit immigration fraud and get away with it?? just what specifically are the current laws, and why are they not being enforced?? are you or anyone else trying to change the laws in order to prevent future fraud from occuring?
did Yelena win any monies in her suit against Avi for 250K?? or did a judge also hopefully dismiss her lawsuit??
the stress of this situation, and I think the stress of cancer, shows on Avi's face. it's very sad that "nice guys finish last". Yelena knew that Avi was "maki" a nice guy, and in her evilness did what she could to take advantage of him and now she seeks to profit from her actions further... a very sad story.
Absolutely. This largely have more to do, and greatly in common with, with men who travel to FSU searching for someone to fill a void in their sorry lives. Instead of spending productive time to 'better oneself' and change their current social status quo, they instead hurl the blame at the women in their lair and seek out a stranger from another country out of desperation. That state of mind is the evil that lurks in these relationships.:applaud: :thumbsup:
A lonely and desperate person will always be a very insecure bloke. The process AMs have to go through to import a void filler and immigrate her here is a path that easily gives an impression 'he's doing everything for her'. Mix that with the fact he's lonely and desperate to begin with, it's the perfect recipe for the creation of a highly controlling John Frankenstein. And yes, these women aren't rocks. Honest intentions have very little to do with it. They're human beings. They will awake from a nightmare just like any other. It won't take them a whole lot of time to see for themselves and fully understand the REAL reason why many of these men are in places like the FSU looking for 'wives' to begin with. These men may feel significant and get attention while in FSU, but they will all have to come back home AND reality. Only this time, sexy Olga gets to 'live' with 'his' reality for as long as livable.
The subliminal definition behind the phrase 'traditional women' are 'submissive', dependent & helplessness. Perfect companion for one who is lonely, desperate and controlling. AWs have done away with these silliness and these men know that full well...so they search in FSU.
Yes, money is not an issue inside a relationship (I mean the giving, not problems caused by a lack thereof)... but, Doll, did you refuse to eat with your husband, or avoid him on a daily basis? I think that is an enormous warning indicator of things to come and one that anyone should have been able to see.Wait, the "signs" we are talking about could be seen before she got here. Somebody mentioned this money as a "red flag".
If you notice at 2:44 of the second clip Ilana says "he cheated on him". You have to listen close. I noticed Avi saying in clips (that I didn't use) his getting the right gender wrong with his "he's" and "her's". I noticed this with Zoya as well. I asked a Russian woman I know about this and she said this mistake was common with Russians. Is this true? Have you noticed this?Yes, it is quite common with people who don't speak English well enough.
1) Get married ASAP
2) File all immigration documents
3) Then go on honeymoon
I remember Gary's wife Elena had Gary stop at the service center to file the adjustment of status right after they were married. Honeymoon came later.
Other red flags are and I know I have got to be careful with those, is not caring about the wedding ceremony, how the groom is dressed, avoiding churches (I know you have to use ZAGS in Russia to make it official), taking photos only for USCIS requirements and not any for friends and family, forgeting birthdays of the USC spouse and anniversaries, lengthy phone calls to immigration savvy "friends" and the word "document" said over and over again, sudden emergency trips for reasons that are difficult to check and not doing anything that indicates plans for a long term life together. An example of the last one would not caring if the husband learned your language even if he asked. Again any of these red flags may have an alternative explanation other than marriage fraud.
Guys, I am in a "fake" marriage! I did all the above!
(http://s2.rimg.info/ff7b651aa3240ae5628544d2e1fcb6a6.gif) (http://smajliki.ru/smilie-251783463.html)
OMG!
LoL.. some scams DO take a little longer to unfold than others! :evil:That's right!
The subliminal definition behind the phrase 'traditional women' are 'submissive', dependent & helplessness. Perfect companion for one who is lonely, desperate and controlling. AWs have done away with these silliness and these men know that full well...so they search in FSU.
and those lonely and desperate men who turns or maybe not into a "highly controlling John Frankenstein" are also an easy prey for FSUW predators who knows how to play the cards. Their (FSUW's) submissiveness, dependency, helplessness, traditionalism, loveliness, tenderness, thoughtfulness whatever your call it will disappear in the right moment, and they already know about shelters, who to contact to and how to scratch and bruise themselves. One guy probably will think twice before going the painful road after being blackmailed by his "lovely traditional wife", the other guy will pick up the "tomahawk". Some AW, btw, also know how to play tricks and do not hesitate to, especially when it comes to "who will get custody of a child".True.
2) Brain scatter, ramblings and Russian problems with gender identification If you notice at 2:44 of the second clip Ilana says "he cheated on him". You have to listen close. I noticed Avi saying in clips (that I didn't use) his getting the right gender wrong with his "he's" and "her's". I noticed this with Zoya as well. I asked a Russian woman I know about this and she said this mistake was common with Russians. Is this true? Have you noticed this?
Here is a video of Ilana, Avi's first wife in Russian. I have never had this translated to me. Also I am working on the Russian interview of Zoya that I should have posted in the next day or two. I may have a few clips of Avi in English after that.
Overall what I am working on is winding up this story and then go on to another one and so on. These are not just 'men done wrong' tales. There are the 'women done wrong' as well. A few interviews with Russian women attorneys and a surprise I'll keep for the end.
Good job, Maxx2! So far I cannot see anything about the 'women done wrong'. On the video, I can see one good woman who protects her ex because they are still friends.
There has been many good signs lately ;D
I appreciate your scepticism. That is your taking a deep critical look at these tales of woe. Scepticism keeps things honest and ourselves as well. In the near future I plan to release more films on this subject right here on RWD. I would appreciate very much your scepticism of the subjects of these films. They need a critic. Could you do that for me?
That's good to know Maxx. Keep it up!
Then allow me to make my first installment...
My skepticism arose from a few things in this video. Let me try and see if I can clearly spell them out for you for no other reason that just to give you a counter perspective. If there's a purpose in making these videos, I think it'll help your cause immensely to present from the most objective & neutral position. Otherwise, it easily mark these videos at best as biased and one-sided. At worst, a witchhunt.
1. Interview the other party. Give your audience the benefit of hearing the other side. Imagine this a court of law. You presented the plaintiff's case including all the circumstantial evidence, witnesses, etc...and expect your audience then to become judge, jury, and executioners without the benefit of hearing the defendant's side of the story. That's likely fine to many, like this thread clearly shows, but not to everyone. If that is the type of audience you're trying to reach, then nothing more I need to add. Without both sides of the story getting equal representation, then it's empty and far too inconclusive.
2. In this video, you showed the woman and her alleged boyfriend walking together, standing in front of the elevator, etc...then concluded they've been having 'sex'. Then left it up to the audience to speculate and assume they've been having torrid sex despite the absence of irrefutable proof. Spending night/s in his apartment doesn't automatically mean they're having intimate relationships, does it? I've had more than a few friends spend the night in my crib habitually before but sex was hardly a consideration let alone a foregone conclusion. They did it because they knew me enough as a friend.
Another thing that just doesn't sit well with me is the whole storyline that somehow this woman and her alleged boyfriend rode this experience to somehow save the man a few dollars it cost of immigrating her to the US. I don't know about everyone else here but for me I'll be damned if I even remotely consider going through the silliness of watching my girlfriend shack-up with another man for a few months as boyfriend/girlfriend - husband/wife just so I can save a few dollars for the cost of immigrating her. I mean, can YOU do that? Can any of the men who automatically pronounced this woman guilty as charged honestly tell you they fully understand the logic of this decision and that this is more than just imaginable? I doubt it.
However if there's any validity to the notion that this acidic frugality reigns supreme in some men, then dive into that. Find out from the actual men, like the one in this video, the reason/s and the logic why they would allow themselves, and their girlfriend/s, to go through such situations.
Lastly, since you asked I be a critic...the other players are far too rigid and too rehearsed. They are hardly, IMHO, convincing.
Hello GQ
I think a lot your questions would be understood by you if you had made a documentary film on this subject or any subject involving people. There are limitations of what is possible to present. As example your observation that the people seemed rigid and rehearsed. Half the people in this story were reluctant to get on camera. They were not used to being on camera especially with all the lights, the boom mike hanging over their head and a wireless mike up their blouse/shirt.
So putting pressure on people to help is not the same thing as getting them to lie. Sorry I am just trying to anticipate your next observation OK?
About my assumption of their being romantic. The first sign of this was in his e-mail to Avi's wife. The one dated 2 weeks after Avi married her. Michael calls her "kitten" and "my love" and says "Miss you a lot!" "love ya" "Yours, the one and only crazy one". Then he takes a vacation with her and they stay in the same hotel and spend the night together. Zoya in the Russian interview gets more in detail with this.
Finally it's near impossible to get both sides to tell their story. We try. We call them but they run. We send e-mails and they go unanswered. We get a calls from a father or wife saying don't bother my son or husband.
Maxx-
As for the assumption of romantic liasons, I still contend much of what you've given so far are mere 'circumstantial'. It proves nothing. It means nothing. You will be hard pressed to convict anyone by merely presenting terms of endearment as sole proof for sexual relationships. LOL. I had a friend who's married now and lives in New York. She used to write me emails and ends it with "Give it to me hard big boy!". We never had sex, Maxx and we've hung out for years. Based on that term of endearment compared to the ones you cited above, I must be having orgies on a batstick with this gal, no?
There had been a few women who had sent me flowers, long stem chocolate cookies, etc...on my birthdays or other special occassions or just because - with silly terms of endearments but it doesn't mean we gitdown'ndirty. Like I said, it'll only help the cause more if you can show more proofs e.g. PDA, Got Milk-like photos, etc...instead of idle assumptions. Do you not agree?
Nice song in the movie. What is the whole thing with prononciation of [poteito - potAto] and the other words, can someone explain?American vs. British English, Lily ;).
What would the two last videos have to do with the thread?
Nice song in the movie. What is the whole thing with prononciation of [poteito - potAto] and the other words, can someone explain?
Just a question- how did Zoya come to the USA? She says "they met each other in Russia. came to the USA and got married here"
Part 1 of 2
Here is Zoya. As Avi calls her "wife of boyfriend". I have not heard the Russian translation of what she is saying. Anyone here that could give us a brief outline of what she said I would much appreciate it.She is telling her and Mike's "love story", then how he changed . Not sure what was going on in her family before but she said that "there was no life anyway". So, she herself suggested divorcing. Her husband just agreed.
Part 1 of 2
Just a question- how did Zoya come to the USA? She says "they met each other in Russia. came to the USA and got married here"
Like tourists?
BTW, Ilana still is not saying why she divorced Ivy.
One more: they said Yelena "met" Mike when she "already had her visa". So, there was NO initial intention to come to the USA to "mess with another man".
One more: they said Yelena "met" Mike when she "already had her visa". So, there was NO initial intention to come to the USA to "mess with another man".
Yelena came to the US on January 23, it was the time when Mike sent Zoya to Moscow to visit her parents, though Zoya always went to Russia in April, but it was Mike's idea that Zoya should go in January.
I think they immigrated.No kidding. How?
No kidding. How?
Ilana said she and Avi became more like relatives than a husband and a wife.So this is the reason to divorce a man after 30 years of marriage?
According to Zoya Yelena openly stated that she needed Avi just to come to the US.According to Zoya. That's right.
Judging by the time they arrived (approximately 20 years ago) probably the same why Avi and Ilana did.Ok, how?
Judging by the time they arrived (approximately 20 years ago) probably the same why Avi and Ilana did.Ivy immigrated to Israel first, then he relocated to Germany, then he got the job offer in the USA. So Zoya came same way? She and her daughter separately from Mike.
Depending on when they emigrated, Doll, if they are Jewish, they could have emigrated directly to the U.S.They could, but how did it happen really?
Ivy immigrated to Israel first, then he relocated to Germany, then he got the job offer in the USA. So Zoya came same way? She and her daughter separately from Mike.
How?
The largest number of Jews emigrated in the early 1980's. If one person in the family was Jewish (one spouse, for example), the whole family could emigrate.Do we know the reason?
Maxx, we can discuss this story forever, but something is missing. Too many assumptions and no "other side" reasons at all. Agree with GQ.
Yes, there are women who just use the AM as tickets, but the percentage is tiny.
The visa was gotten regardless BF, Mike was in the picture much later, age gap (20 years?), etc.
She (Yelena) had to count on some income, not so? She and 2 boys in this country with no job?
According to Zoya. That's right.
You know how it is called? Assumicuide.
In the e-mail exchanges Michael had with Yelena that was read by Zoya he said to Yelena "I know this Avi. Why are you going to marry him?" Yelena's responce was "How else am I going to get to America with two kids?" to which Michael said "Avi should be easy to fool".
So this is the reason to divorce a man after 30 years of marriage?
We all are relatives.
Come on! There has to be the reason.
I hate it when Zoya is judging RW who marry AM. See what she said? Seeking for abuse is "on fashion". This is what she said.
They may have been looking for a better life, but they may also have wanted personal freedom. RW emigrating now have the same freedoms as Westerners. That wasn't the case in the USSR.Let's not go there! 8)
You probably missed when Zoya said: "Such people like Yelena Mamedova..."She said,"Первым делом, кто приезжает из России говорят, что бил". No reference to Yelena.
She said,"Первым делом, кто приезжает из России говорят, что бил". No reference to Yelena.
Zoya: What else Elena can say. It's "fashionable" today who come from Russia the first thing they say they were "abused", what else they can say. If true, of course they should, why shouldn't they? That's what the law is for. A man accepted her with two children, she did not work a day in the US living in his apartment and spending his money, Sounds a lot like a typical K visa situation, doesn't it? So where's the problem? he was working and he even did not have a clue what she was doing. When my wife first arrived and I had to go to work, I didn't have a clue what my wife did too while I was gone but I never beat her and thus she never filed charges of abuse against me...what's your/her point? What else she could say? What other charges she could press against Avi? Of course there are cases when they (women) were really abused, but in general such people as Yelena Mamedova who come to the US initially knowing the purpose the first thing they say they were abused. Speculation. Unless you/Zoya, as apparently Maxx do not, have actual proof the charges of abuse is fabricated, please indulge. The police didn't believe so when they came to their home, no? Why? Because it is the first law that is very punishable... As it should. As it should....
Thanks for your work and posting it, Maxx2. This is something interesting here with Zoya's view.
She opines that a woman's knowledge about her options in the US may be a pre-requisite to the woman's decision to marry an AM. Unfortunately, from Zoya's words either English or Russian, I could not draw any particular correlation about what results from what, starting 3:17. She says that people who know in advance what options will be available to them in the US, like shelter and others, may be willing to come to the US with an idea mainly to use these options, if I got Zoya's point correctly.
Would Zoya think that a naive woman without any knowledge about her rights in the US be by definition a honest foreign husband seeker?
If this would be correct, then we could assume that any woman who is well-informed about her rights, like myself, for example, would marry anyone in order to lie and betray him later, and to use the available legal options against him to her advantage. >:(
As for Avi, I agree with what he said. He picked up a vicious and dishonest person. The only mistake he did was a wrong choice, that's it.
Is Zoya the woman Mike allegedly left for Ilyana? If so, she wouldn't happen to have reason/s to be howling like a banshee, does she?
Until Maxx graces us with the other party's side of the story...this is pretty much a witch hunt.
The material posted is what these people said in the courts' records. The "other party's side" denies everything.
Well, since the court actually 'heard' both sides, and likely saw equal evidences supporting such, what was the court's verdict? Did they find Yelena in violation of immigration laws?
Ivy just has a strong accent, Zoya works for Russian speaking people
What strikes me in particular, why these people seem to be really struggling to communicate in English even after so many years in the US? I realize the difficulties in trying to learn a new language, as it is something I have experienced first hand. But this seems to be an extreme example.
If true, of course they should, why shouldn't they? That's what the law is for. Sounds a lot like a typical K visa situation, doesn't it? So where's the problem? When my wife first arrived and I had to go to work, I didn't have a clue what my wife did too while I was gone but I never beat her and thus she never filed charges of abuse against me...what's your/her point? Speculation. Unless you/Zoya, as apparently Maxx do not, have actual proof the charges of abuse is fabricated, please indulge. The police didn't believe so when they came to their home, no? As it should. As it should....
Until Maxx graces us with the other party's side of the story...this is pretty much a witch hunt.
There are two different courts here, immigration and civil. In the civil court the judge dismissed the appeal by Yelena for additional money. He also dismissed what ever money payments she was getting presently from Avi. Yelena's appeal backfired on her.
In Immigration court Avi is not allowed to present his side. Only Yelena is allowed to present her story and with whatever evidence she chooses to submit. ( one of which likely was a police record of abuse, which for all intent and purposes is all she likely needed.) According to US law as voiced by congressman John Conyers of Michigan before the House the American citizen is considered a "Prohibited source". No statements or evidences by them are to be received by Immigration Services when an abuse claim is made by an immigrant spouse. She did get her green card.
This is exactly what I was asking long ago- ok, this marriage is dissolved, why would Maxx create this thread?
Now...what's the problem?
Then that court had ample reasons to arrive to that decision.
...and this court had ample reasons to arrived to that decision.
Now...what's the problem?
....A witch hunt? Honestly, I believe Ilana's words said about her ex-husband Avi. I would not believe a woman, particularly Yelana, who was active in dating after engagement and after wedding ceremony, who admitted that she needed a man just to get in the US with her two kids, who arranged a meeting with other man, her lover, on her second day after her arrival, who went with that man on a vacation and so on.
GQBlues, Was there a man who sent your wife the letters with "my kitty, my love, I miss you very much and love you. Your crazy one" after 15 days of your marriage? Did your wife secretly had a meeting with that man on the second day after her arrival to the US and before marriage to you? Did she spend time with him in the different city saying you that she was helping her girlfriend? Did the man hug you wife and kiss your wife's neck standing near an elevator when you was not near? Did your wife spend a night with that man in an apartment alone without you being near?
You don't need to answer.
I've said before, present both sides of the story, then we may have a platform for discussion. Without it, it's a witch hunt.
Another "court" (immigration service) issued Yelena GC- so it proves the abuse.
So?
so it proves the abuse.
In Immigration court Avi is not allowed to present his side
The Thin Blue Line is a 1988 documentary film about Randall Dale Adams, a man convicted and sentenced to die for a murder he did not commit. Adams' case was reviewed and he was released from prison approximately a year after the film's release.
So what exactly "a witch hunt" you are talking about?
When folks are quick to hand a verdict simply based on one version of the story...LOL, it's a witch hunt.
Without the other side of the story, it's a witch hunt ;)
USCIS works based on documents.
So, what did Ivy really loose because of the case? I mean money or something.
That's what exactly an immigration court does without other side of the story. "A witch hunt" is also when the police ignores a fact that a man was fiscally attacked by a woman or ignores his alibi because his gender is male. "A witch hunt" is when a woman simply points her finger at man screaming "bloody abuser" and nightmare begins for him. Male doctors afraid to be alone with their female patient in the office because it can cost them their medical career if a female decides it will be a good opportunity to get some money.
If Yelena and her lover Michael knew and felt there was not nothing wrong in what they did they would not miss such opportunity as to participate in the documentary and present their side of the story when they were offered. But I doubt they will drop a word after watching the documentary published on youtube ;)
GQ, I will not be pulled into a fight. I genuinely like you and it hurts when we do. Never again.
I appreciate your scepticism. That is your taking a deep critical look at these tales of woe. Scepticism keeps things honest and ourselves as well. In the near future I plan to release more films on this subject right here on RWD. I would appreciate very much your scepticism of the subjects of these films. They need a critic. Could you do that for me?
Huh? Fight? You asked me to be a skeptic and a critic in this very thread...
LOL, I didn't realized you were in the room the day the cops arrested Avi. How come you're not on Maxx's video?
Assuming (:o) Maxx did actually try. Even once...apprehensively, half-heartedly, grudgingly, uninspiringly... nah...I don't think he even did.
VAWA allows certain spouses, children and parents of U.S. citizens and permanent residents (green card holders) to file a petition for themselves without the abusers’ knowledge. This will allow you to seek both safety and independence from the abuser. The provisions of VAWA apply equally to women and men. Your abuser will not be notified that you have filed for immigration benefits under VAWA.
Olga,
It still didn't change the fact you only have ONE version/side of this story to work with to come remotely close to any type of conclusion.
I believe it was about eighty thousand dollars in legal costs. He also lost his good high paying job due to the stress he was going through. He also lost his health when he got cancer. As his first wife said "He was healthy all his life". But who knows if one is connected to another.What did he pay for?
I believe it was about eighty thousand dollars in legal costs. He also lost his good high paying job due to the stress he was going through. He also lost his health when he got cancer. As his first wife said "He was healthy all his life". But who knows if one is connected to another.
i wouldn't argue the point ,it could be the case.. ! just like maxx , i'm asking what you think.
Then Olga tried to breed subsets of speculations and hypothesis within the limits of this one-sided story.
About 80 k in legal costs? Were they the court fees, or what particular type of expenses?
Assuming that Avi is a respondent, not plaintiff, he was not about to pay any court filing fees. Or am I wrong?
GQBlues, correspondence and video by investigator is not speculations and hypothesis but evidence that was also taken by the court and statements by witnesses as well ;DNot sure but I've heard that e-mails can no be prove because they can be easily "made up".
He side pays their own court lawyer's fees. At about $250 an hour they add up.$250 an hour when? At the court?
Not sure but I've heard that e-mails can no be prove because they can be easily "made up".
It is just technology.
$250 an hour when? At the court?
$250 an hour when? At the court?
BTW I forgot- why did he start the investigation? If he wanted a divorce he would be granted it anyway.
Good question. He wanted a non contested divorce. Having absolute proof of her adultery would help him if he had to go to court. He wanted her to know this. He was hoping he didn't have to go to court. It cost money many thousands of dollars. He just wanted her to pack up her things and go. But there was the issue of her getting her green card and that is why she couldn't have a "peaceable divorce".Was he going to save money by having a non contested divorce? Seems like there was no property on Yelena's name as well as money on the account (which can be removed by 2 clicks of the mouse)))
(just between us- if my husband started any investigation of this type- I would be infuriated. Not sure if all the lips stay "untouched")))))))))))))))))))))
Just kidding (not) :D :D :D
Are you kidding about "being infuriated" or "not sure if all the lips stay "untouched", or both? :DThe latter
He had nothing to loose, I mean the property division.
He would be granted the divorce anyway.
What state is it?
The latter
I'm also not a violent person. But I guess I would be infuriated by an investigation organized my partner only in a case if I had to hide something shameful and "wrong doing" :DI would be mad in both cases. This is just human nature.
I would be mad in both cases. This is just human nature.
Yes, Maxx, I've read the Virginia divorce law- Ivy's was right in "proving the adultery".
So, this 30 minutes court hearing happen before or after DVC ? I mean were there 2 "courts"?
(just between us- if my husband started any investigation of this type- I would be infuriated. Not sure if all the lips stay "untouched")))))))))))))))))))))
Just kidding (not) :D :D :D
Would you be infuriated if you were cheating on your husband even before marriage the way Avi's wife was?I mean that there is always some "hot discussion" when one spouse tells the other one about this sort of investigation.
She probably gave him ample clues as to the cheating, hence the investigations.
I would be mad in both cases. This is just human nature.
I mean that there is always some "hot discussion" when one spouse tells the other one about this sort of investigation.
GQBlues, correspondence and video by investigator is not speculations and hypothesis but evidence that was also taken by the court and statements by witnesses as well ;D
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ&feature=related[/youtube]
OlgaH-
Ironically enough, Maxx himself provided a video in this thread as to why it is so critical to harness and present the other side of the story to arrive to some semblance of contrast, balance and ultimately, the truth...
:P
Does anyone know when Daveman will get back? I heard he is in Moscow and will be offline for a while.IIRC, he was planning to stay 3 months 'over there'.
IIRC, he was planning to stay 3 months 'over there'.
OlgaH-
Ironically enough, Maxx himself provided a video in this thread as to why it is so critical to harness and present the other side of the story to arrive to some semblance of contrast, balance and ultimately, the truth...
:P