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Author Topic: Are American Men whipped?  (Read 1468 times)

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Offline Boethius

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2021, 09:22:32 AM »
Not all religions view abortion as murder. 

Would such a man denounce premarital sex?  That, after all, is a sin in most Christian denominations. 

Would such a man reject a woman who had engaged in sinful activity, such as premarital sex?

Would such a man reject a woman who is divorced?  After all, Jesus said that other than divorce on the grounds of adultery, all divorcees are committing adultery, and that divorce is contrary to God's law.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 09:33:27 AM by Boethius »
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return. -  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Online John Gaunt

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2021, 09:59:23 AM »
Abortion rates are still relatively high in Russia, but they are low in Ukraine (14.8/1,000, which is lower than in many Western countries).  Abortion rates dropped dramatically after the collapse of the USSR, when birth control pills became widely available.  Initially, there was a hesitancy to use birth control pills, but that's changed over time.


I am uncertain why a man would care how many abortions a woman has had, unless he wants children, and is concerned she may be infertile.
I don’t agree with abortion as a routine form of contraception.
I think there are many men who would view with caution, a woman who routinely aborted as a means of contraception.
It displays a recklessness that would sit uncomfortably with a lot of men, I think. This may not sit well with a feminist viewpoint but probably a majority of men would reject a women who, using this example, is obviously sexually pretty active and that’s  without taking into account the fact that the woman is not taking any precautions against disease or pregnancy.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2021, 11:01:04 AM »
I think you have to look at this culturally.


In Soviet times, abortion could be dangerous, but other forms of birth control were practically non existent.  After the collapse, there was a hesitancy to use birth control pills because there was a belief they were unsafe/would cause infertility/was unhealthy, etc. (not so different from the COVID vaccine deniers).  So abortion, which for 7 decades, was sold to women as socially acceptable, was viewed as perfectly acceptable.


What if the woman had six abortions with the same partner?


How many partners is acceptable for a woman of say, 32?  After all, the "standard" here is sex after the third date. 


I actually doubt there are many women who have had six abortions, unless you count miscarriages in that statistic (which Russia does).
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return. -  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Offline BC

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2021, 12:49:09 PM »
For every abortion, there was a man in the calculus, unless one believes women get pregnant from toilet seats.

In any case, who's counting, and for what purpose?  I doubt most men will ever know until a relationship is further along.

Is such listed in dating profiles?

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2021, 01:27:46 PM »
Not all religions view abortion as murder. 

In which religion is abortion allowed? I believe the answer is ZERO. Therefore
you can see why some men might worry about a woman who had many 
abortions not being a good candidate for marriage.



« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 01:40:25 PM by 2tallbill »
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Offline ML

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2021, 01:34:14 PM »
How many partners is acceptable for a woman of say, 32?  After all, the "standard" here is sex after the third date. 

The sex on 3rd date applies only to men.
Women should not have sex until marriage.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online 2tallbill

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Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2021, 01:36:16 PM »
For every abortion, there was a man in the calculus, unless one believes women
get pregnant from toilet seats.

In any case, who's counting, and for what purpose?  I doubt most men will ever
know until a relationship is further along.

Is such listed in dating profiles?

Do you have a relevant question or comment?

I was making a point about older women in the FSU. They either have
kids or many abortions, or are sterile, etc. Then Boe had a question/
comment so I answered.   

Boe's comment/question
"I am uncertain why a man would care how many abortions a
woman has had, unless he wants children, and is concerned
she may be infertile."



FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline ML

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2021, 01:38:14 PM »
In which religion is abortion allowed?

Atheism qualifies as a religion for the purpose of First Amendment protection.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online 2tallbill

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Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2021, 01:47:48 PM »
Atheism qualifies as a religion for the purpose of First Amendment protection.

Atheism has no church or governing rules or doctrines which can be looked
up and verified. Therefore it would rely on the individual atheist to decide
the moral implications of abortion(s) and other ethical questions.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 01:49:41 PM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline ML

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2021, 01:49:39 PM »
For every abortion, there was a man in the calculus, unless one believes women get pregnant from toilet seats.

Could be, because you can get STDs there also.

- - - - - - -

Woman took her son to doctor.
He diagnosed STD.
Mother indignantly proclaimed he got it in a public toilet.

Dr replied:  He shouldn't be taking his girlfriend into a public toilet.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline BC

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2021, 03:53:17 PM »
Do you have a relevant question or comment?

I take it you don't like contrast in your picture.


Online 2tallbill

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Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #36 on: Yesterday at 06:06:33 AM »
I take it you don't like contrast in your picture.

Should I take your divergence into unrelated comments as an example that
you don't have any related comments? The unlikeliness of getting preggers
from toilet seats or the fact that women get pregnant from having unprotected
sex with men has nothing to do with considering the character of a woman for
marriage. Please tie it together your unrelated comments to the question at
hand if your comments were intended as contrast.

Did you know that there is no air on the moon and that blini is a tasty Russian
dish? Nice facts to know but totally unrelated to decisions about a woman's
character or lack thereof, or one can see as I do that your comments were
unrelated to the topic being discussed and were distractions rather than
contrast.

Your comments were not unwelcome, they were simply irrelevant.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:18:58 AM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 08:50:57 AM »

In which religion is abortion allowed? I believe the answer is ZERO. Therefore you can see why some men might worry about a woman who had many abortions not being a good candidate for marriage.

Judaism. 

http://forward.com/opinion/393168/why-are-jews-so-pro-choice/

If a man is religious, going to the FSU to find a wife is probably a mistake.

True love begins when nothing is looked for in return. -  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 09:16:51 AM »
Judaism. 

Wrong, it is a crime and it's written in many places throughout history.
In Exodus, in the Talmud, in the Septuagint and in many other writings.

"If men  strive,  and  wound  a  pregnant  woman  so  that  her  fruit  be
expelled, but no harm befell [her],  then shall he be fined as  her husband
shall assess, and the matter placed before the judges.  But if harm befell
[her], then shall you give life for life."

Here is a link to a rather complete historical and philisophical look the subject
including different variations on the severity of the crime. Intentionally killing
an unborn child who is "formed" meaning resembles a baby rather than a tadpole
is a crime punishable ONLY by death. 

http://www.rabbinicalassembly.org/sites/default/files/public/halakhah/teshuvot/19861990/feldman_abortion.pdf


If a man is religious, going to the FSU to find a wife is probably a mistake.

I somewhat agree. You can find all types in the FSU. If you are looking for a religious
girl the best place to look is your church. Your church probably has a version of
itself in the FSU.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 09:39:29 AM »
No, I am not wrong.  Both of the organizations you cite support abortion laws when it puts the life of the mother at risk.

"The sages ruled that when complications arise and a pregnant woman cannot give birth, it is permitted to abort the fetus in her womb, whether with a knife or drugs, for the fetus is considered a rodef (a murderer in pursut) of its mother.  If the head of the fetus emerges, it should not be touched, because one life should not be sacrificed for another." - Maimonides, Mishneh Torah.  (FTR, Maimonides, a medieval philosopher and physician, is considered one of the greatest scholars of Judaism).

"It is clear that in Jewish law, an Israelite is not liable to capital punishment for feticide . . . An Israelite woman was permitted to undergo a therapeutic abortion, even though her life was not at stake . . . This permissive ruling applies even when there is no direct threat to the life of the mother." - Rabbi Elizer Waldenberg (Rabbi Waldenberg was an important ultra Orthodox arbiter of Jewish law in Israel).

Bottom line - There is no religious prohibition against abortion in Judaism, because it does not consider a fetus a person.  Jewish law does not consider a fetus to be a living soul until the head is crowning during birth.

Quote
Your church probably has a version of itself in the FSU.

Depends on where.  If Russia, probably not.  Furthermore, the number of people who are truly religious in the Slavic parts of the FSU is miniscule.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:48:46 AM by Boethius »
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return. -  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #40 on: Yesterday at 10:09:20 AM »
No, I am not wrong.  Both of the organizations you cite support abortion
laws when it puts the life of the mother at risk.

My Question
"In which religion is abortion allowed? I believe the answer is ZERO."

To which you replied "Judaism." You didn't add the stipulation. My Roman
Catholic church allows abortions to save the life of the mother. All religions
allow abortions to save the life of the Mother. No major religion allows abortion
as a method of birth control.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #41 on: Yesterday at 10:17:28 AM »
You are twisting on the head of a pin.

Judaism makes no stipulation that abortion can only occur to save a mother's life.  There are rabbis who have stated mental health is sufficient.  In any event, my first response was to your statement that all religions consider abortion murder.  Judaism definitely does not.

Claiming abortion is a "method of birth control" is over the top.  No woman, even in the FSU, chooses abortion as a method of birth control.  Having an abortion has physical effects on the body.


BTW, the type of woman who has six abortions isn't the type to tell a man about it. So, BC was correct about this - the man won't know.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:31:17 AM by Boethius »
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return. -  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Offline BC

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #42 on: Yesterday at 10:53:00 AM »
Should I take your divergence into unrelated comments as an example that
you don't have any related comments? The unlikeliness of getting preggers
from toilet seats or the fact that women get pregnant from having unprotected
sex with men has nothing to do with considering the character of a woman for
marriage. Please tie it together your unrelated comments to the question at
hand if your comments were intended as contrast.

Did you know that there is no air on the moon and that blini is a tasty Russian
dish? Nice facts to know but totally unrelated to decisions about a woman's
character or lack thereof, or one can see as I do that your comments were
unrelated to the topic being discussed and were distractions rather than
contrast.

Your comments were not unwelcome, they were simply irrelevant.

Certainly more relevant than yours, injecting religion, abortion and views thereof into discourse.

What was the point of your post anyway, and how does it relate to the topic of 'whipped' American men?

I can't recall ever having a date with American women, Canadian, German, Spanish, French, Italian, Turkish, Greek and maybe a couple others where the topic of how many abortions she had was discussed.  Why in the world should it be any different with a FSUW unless she wants to bring it up for whatever reason?

Did you state in any of your profiles or agency info (if you used such) that you did not want contact with women that had prior abortions?  Did you ask for medical records to verify her 'character'? Maybe a polygraph? What's your number that divides 'good girls' from 'bad'?  6?

Did any of the women you dated ask how many times you frequented a brothel?  How many times you had sex outside of marriage, and/or without a condom?  Any women you 'knocked up'?

So you see, IMO the topic you injected is irrelevant as to a woman's 'character'.  Either couples will get along, or they don't. Either she will tell you or not, or maybe even lie to you if you do ask, so why even bother to know.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #43 on: Yesterday at 11:58:28 AM »
To be fair to Bill, I don't think he intended this to veer off to abortion. I responded to that post.  I think the "6 abortions" in the list was just a contrast to a woman with a child as opposed to all the other (supposedly) undesirable traits.


There are men who aren't up to the task of raising another man's child.  I suspect much of this does have to do with whether the man has children, or has raised children, and whether or not he wants more children.
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return. -  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #44 on: Yesterday at 12:23:48 PM »
You are twisting on the head of a pin.

Judaism makes no stipulation that abortion can only occur to save a mother's life.

What it says is that killing a baby is a crime. It is also a crime if the baby
hasn't been born yet. The crime is more serious if the baby is "formed"
It's a crime to do this on accident.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #45 on: Yesterday at 12:26:42 PM »
To be fair to Bill, I don't think he intended this to veer off to abortion. I responded to that post.  I think the "6 abortions" in the list was just a contrast to a woman with a child as opposed to all the other (supposedly) undesirable traits.


There are men who aren't up to the task of raising another man's child.  I suspect much of this does have to do with whether the man has children, or has raised children, and whether or not he wants more children.

I don't think it was intended to veer off to abortion either. I don't have a
desire to debate the subject of abortion, it's unrelated to the thread topic.
My point was that FSUW over a certain age have children OR
there is a reason behind it (I listed the reasons).

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 12:33:38 PM »
What it says is that killing a baby is a crime. It is also a crime if the baby hasn't been born yet. The crime is more serious if the baby is "formed" It's a crime to do this on accident.


Nope.  It's not a crime.


My point was that FSUW over a certain age have children OR there is a reason behind it (I listed the reasons).


I am not certain I agree with that.  Some women (who the better half would call "blue stockings") would never have a child out of wedlock.  There are plenty of mothers who are not really what I would call "marriage material".  I think you have to look at individual cases. 
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:43:06 PM by Boethius »
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return. -  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #47 on: Yesterday at 12:41:13 PM »
Wrong, it is a crime and it's written in many places throughout history.
 
You sure our right about everything, and everybody else is 'wrong'. 

After reviving a long dead topic after 16 years, it seems you are attempting to now steer and stifle conversation that doesn't fit without what you deem the parameters of discussion.  Why not let the topic breath and people contribute the way they see fit.  I thought BC's point was on topic. 

Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #48 on: Yesterday at 12:42:37 PM »
Certainly more relevant than yours, injecting religion, abortion and views
thereof into discourse.

Is that your opinion? I had no intention of injecting religion or abortion
or views. Your comment of catching preggers from toilet seats is price
of tea in China unrelated. Your comments were not germane and you
know it.  The obfuscation below is an example of it.


What was the point of your post anyway, and how does it relate to the topic of
'whipped' American men?

FSUW above a certain age have children OR something happened. That was the point
stop asking questions you know the answer to. Go back and read the thread and you
should be able to follow along. If you can't let me know and I will connect the dots
for you.


Did any of the women you dated ask how many times you frequented a brothel? 
How many times you had sex outside of marriage, and/or without a condom? 
Any women you 'knocked up'?

So you see, IMO the topic you injected is irrelevant as to a woman's 'character'. 
Either couples will get along, or they don't. Either she will tell you or not, or
maybe even lie to you if you do ask, so why even bother to know.

The point I injected was really, really, really, really simple. Even a lefty snowflake
can understand it. I said that FSUW over a certain age have children, OR something
happened.

Lefty's like yourself AND Boe are unable to allow certain words to be uttered or
posted on a board without making an inane comment. Abortion is a lefty trigger
word.

Here is a link to some coping strategies that might help you next time that
you feel triggered.

http://www.verywellmind.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-triggered-4175432
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Are American Men whipped?
« Reply #49 on: Yesterday at 12:47:41 PM »
FSUW above a certain age have children OR something happened.

That is untrue.

Quote
Lefty's like yourself AND Boe are unable to allow certain words to be uttered or posted on a board without making an inane comment. Abortion is a lefty trigger word.

I am not a "lefty", although by your extreme rightwing standards, I probably am.  FTR, I am not a "supporter" of abortion.  However, I also don't think it's my place to judge what women (or men) choose to do with their bodies, from covering themselves in tattoos to abortion.  In the latter case, judgment belongs to God, not me.  But, if you are a big proponent of banning abortion, then you should also be a big proponent of lots and lots of government funding for poor women to raise those unwanted babies.  Anything else is hypocritical.

PS - I just noted that attitudes toward abortion are different in the FSU than they are in the West, and I didn't understand why a man would be concerned with how many abortions a woman has had, beyond a concern of infertility if he wants to have children.  You are the one who interjected with the "murder" rationale.



« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:10:25 PM by Boethius »
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return. -  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

 

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