What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[Vinnvinny]

He didn't get you exactly. When you referred to MissAmeno and I as "guys", you used the word correctly. "Guys" is a gender neutral word that refers to a group of people who doesn't have to be all males. BUT, if you thought MISSAmeno was a male, you fooled yourself.

No BillyB you are wrong. A guy is a man, period. Enough of the bastardisation of language please, next you'll be telling us that a cow is a bull! 

[Dewed]

And as you will see you will forget what you posted by tomorrow. As a moderator you will delete and edit speech and opinions contrary to what you write.

Power always goes to a persons head. Whether it be a President or school hall monitor. Eventually they become drunk with power and know better than all. Forum moderators are some of the worst drunkards. But the smart ones can handle their liquor.

This advice I give you with a handshake and pat on the back gesture of good luck.

I don't generally edit posts.. I think maybe 2 or 3 in the roughly .. gee, what's been, 7-8 years I've been involved with keeping the web servers happy?.. Deleted and banned.. now that likely numbers in the thousands.

If you truly feel your own posts are being edited without justification PM me the next time this happens.

[Dewed]

Now arguing about calling a mixed gender group  "guys"    which is perfectly acceptable where I'm from by the way.

Perhaps it should not be so important to you to impose your vocabulary standards and instead actually stay on topic?

[Noch1]

wonder what the 6th fleet would look like in the Black Sea?

[cc3]

Now arguing about calling a mixed gender group  "guys"    which is perfectly acceptable where I'm from by the way.

It will especially be so in Obama's restructured American military:

http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/j-matt-barber/tranny-time-us-military-becoming-global-joke

[Muzh]

Muzh



I think that is an unfair charge you are making.  The claim being that because Australia is full of blonds we would care more.  From what i saw Ukraine was also full of blonds.  In addition the hypothetical SX gave, used India or Indonesia invading Australia, so that is what somebody would have to respond to, to stay on topic.    If he had said Russia was invading Australia I would have given a similar response.


I've noticed that you often look at things through the lens of Race, even when it is not an important factor....I don't know why you decide to do this, but presumably you have your reasons. 


Fathertime!

It was the hair, wasn't it? Sorry. I should be more sensitive.
 
Here's what Russians say a lot.
 

[Muzh]

Hah! 50 years ago? Wouldn't that also include Ukrainians?  Actually that would put us right smack into either Stalin, a Georgian, or maybe even Mr. Ukrainian himself, Nikita Kruschev, no?
 

Why is it that people keep making the same mistake?
 
Nikita was born in Russia. Kursk Oblast.
 
However, you are in good company with Dr. Kissing her.    He made the same boo boo.

 

[Muzh]

Hi BillyB!


This is presuming that Russia is going to escalate things.  My thought is these opportunities don't come along that often so I don't see any forthcoming escalation at all. 

 
FT, in all seriousness I'd be careful believing that. Hell, I was screaming atop of my lungs to whomever wanted to listen that Putin was NOT going to invade Crimea. I was convinced that would never happen. So did many others.
 
That was one hell of a bracket buster.

[Muzh]

That isn't what he said, MissA. His reference was solely Crimea, and no, it isn't a state. It's an Autonomous Republic that can choose its own destiny at any given time through referendum. They are free to choose whose dominion they fall under, and in this case they chose Russia instead of Ukraine largely due to the chaos in Kiev.

Hell, one of these days Puerto Rico may elect to be back in Spain's dominion instead of the US, if so, it doesn't make it illegal or wrong for them to do so.

Hell, you'd be surprised how many people in the island still refer to Spain as the Motherland. I tell you, they are a lost cause.

[GQBlues]

Why is it that people keep making the same mistake?
 
Nikita was born in Russia. Kursk Oblast.
 
However, you are in good company with Dr. Kissing her.    He made the same boo boo.

<--- Calendar marked: GQ made a boo-boo! 

Is it true that Nikita is the only Soviet leader to be deprived of being buried alongside his peers?

[BillyB]

No BillyB you are wrong. A guy is a man, period.

Don't blame me, I didn't write the dictionary.

[Muzh]

<--- Calendar marked: GQ made a boo-boo! 

Is it true that Nikita is the only Soviet leader to be deprived of being buried alongside his peers?

PBS says that is true

[ML]

Quote from: GQBlues on Yesterday at 05:41:52 PM

. . . Mr. Ukrainian himself, Nikita Kruschev, no?
     

Why is it that people keep making the same mistake?  Nikita was born in Russia. Kursk Oblast.  However, you are in good company with Dr. Kissing her.    He made the same boo boo.

This can get a little murky.  Do we categorize a person by where they were born, or where they spent the most time, etc.

For instance, the above mentioned Henry.  He was born in Germany.
When the world refers to him, do they say Kissinger the German?

Yes, Khrushchev was born in what is now Russia.  But he spent all of his early working years in Ukraine (where his father worked and the rest of the family moved to) and rose through the communist hierarchy in Ukraine.  Spent some years shuttling back and forth between Kiev and Moscow until finally making his final moves in Moscow.

= = = = = = =

Khrushchev was born on April 15, 1894,[1] in Kalinovka,[2] a village in what is now Russia's Kursk Oblast, near the present Ukrainian border.[3] His parents, Sergei Khrushchev and Ksenia Khrushcheva, were poor peasants of Russian[3][4] origin, and had a daughter two years Nikita's junior, Irina.[1] Sergei Khrushchev was employed in a number of positions in the Donbas area of far eastern Ukraine, working as a railwayman, as a miner, and laboring in a brick factory. Wages were much higher in the Donbas than in the Kursk region, and Sergei Khrushchev generally left his family in Kalinovka, returning there when he had enough money.[5]

The above and much more in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Khrushchev

[Muzh]

For instance, the above mentioned Henry.  He was born in Germany.
When the world refers to him, do they say Kissinger the German?

No, but he was very quick in correcting people he was not Mr. Kissinger but DR. Kissinger.
 
To me it didn't matter. He was always the lovable Dr. Strangelove.

[JayH]

This question keeps coming up a to why Putin is doing what he is--why continue to pour military equipment into the Crimea when it is clearly not needed for the invasion that has taken place.This article certainly covers some ground -it is translated version -so apologies for the jumble--original link is there in Ukrainian.

Why Putin as necessary Ukraine?

Few people know, but it seems that Putin is seriously preparing for World War III. At this point, the extent and nature of orders for military-industrial complex.
It was found that without Ukraine, Russia will not be able to exercise their renovation, scheduled for 2012-2020, and to which allocated 20 trillion rubles.
Design Bureau of MIC is overworked and did not have time to do what orders the Ministry of Defence.
Why is Ukraine so important in this regard? But why!

Russia will not fly?
Plant "Motor Sich" produces almost all engines for Russian helicopters: Mi-8, Mi-171, Mi-24, Mi-35, Mi-26, Mi-28, Ka-27, Ka-29, Ka-32, Ka 50, Ka-52 ... Russia itself can make in a year on the strength of 50, and by 2020 they need 3000 engine (2 on each helicopter and 1 spare)
Plant "Motor Sich" produces the same engines almost all civil airplanes of: IL-18, IL-38, AN-8, AN-12, AN-24, AN-26, AN-30, AN-32, AN- 72, AN-74, AN-124, AN-140, AN-148, Be-12, Be-200, Yak-40, Yak-42
And the Russian Air Force vested interest in military transport aircraft Kiev "Antonov". Of particular interest to the military - to the common mass production of An-70 and An-124 Ruslan. IL -76 can not even close this niche and in no analogues produce.
Kyiv concern "Art" produces missiles "air-air" medium-range R-27 (EF1, P1, ET1, T1) for the MiG-29, Su-27, Su-33, Su-34, Su-35. Currently "Art" - the only post-Soviet space rocket manufacturer of this class of machines.

Russia will not float?
Another area where you can do without Ukraine, but it is extremely difficult and expensive to own - military shipbuilding. In trite marked shortage of construction jobs. And in Ukraine, there are three shipyards in Nikolaev alone!
With regard to building aircraft carriers, it is still problematic - requires a huge investment. The greatest advantage Ukrainian to Russian shipbuilders - the ability to build large vessels with deadweight of 180 tonnes
It is also located in Nikolaev "Zorya" - "Mashproekt" - the biggest in the CIS developer and manufacturer of marine gas turbine engines (GTE) for naval ships. Motors of "Dawn" - "Mashproekt" equipped with many ships of the Russian Navy (including built frigates of project 22350, frigate project 11356R / M, the projected long-term destroyers of project 21956). In the production of gas turbines to establish and failed



 
Nuclear weapons say?
Another area of ​​Russian-Ukrainian cooperation - cooperation in the maintenance of intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) of the old generation (Soviet-made), still form the basis of missile and nuclear power in Russia. In particular, the RS-20 (also known as RS-36M, and according to NATO classification - SS-18 "Satan") developed in Dnepropetrovsk CB "South" and was held at the "Pivdenmash" - experts "South" and "Pivdenmash" and still carry guarantee supervision and analysis of the technical state of Russian missiles, participating in the work to extend their lifespan. Spare parts for the older generation ICBM also delivers "Pivdenmash".
And it is no secret that Russia's nuclear rearmament program "slightly" sags missiles in mines age, can not continue indefinitely lifetime "Satan" and solid MS-24 "Jars" and especially "Topol-M" of the same "Satan" replacement no - they are fundamentally inferior to his predecessor in power delivery and maximum range of "goods." With missiles for submarines and did things go no matter - the same "Bulava", as we know, does not fly, and new submarine virtually unarmed. And difficult to understand how the implementation of a new heavy ICBM Russia can do without Ukrainian SDO "South" and VO "Pivdenmash."
http://pavlozayets.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/blog-post_7245.html

[lordtiberius]

Why hasn't he invaded already?  Time is not on his side.

[Slumba]

Stalin certainly considered Nikita K to be Ukrainian, even joking around and calling him "Mikita" in reference to the Ukrainian pronunciation of his name.

[JayH]

Why hasn't he invaded already?  Time is not on his side.

Interesting question I think. It may be the provocateur program has run out of steam-the pro-Rus demos are getting relatively few people now and nothing like the coverage. As Ukrainians have got up to steam on what was going on and how-- they have closed the border to the "tourists" crossing with an agenda, they worked out the methodology etc.  EG  buses being used to move these people around were identified and tracked- and eventually taken out of the pro-Rus system.   All that has taken the immediacy out of the potential for Putin's justification to invade.
In Ukraine itself--Putin's actions have served to unify the country like never before -- the intent of people to control their own destiny is now very strong.
Putin was hoping to create chaos  in Ukraine-now he is attempting economic war by not allowing Ukrainian products across the border. Anything he can do to fuel dissatisfaction in Ukraine is being done.All that is designed to cause as much disruption as possible.
The election itself is now a pivotal time-- if Ukraine can get there without  further invasion-then Putins chance will be gone-probably forever. So it will be critical now  for Ukraine to not provoke or give any reason to Putin. This goes a long way to explain the passive behaviour of Ukrainian military trapped on the  Crimea.
As a final point-- the fact that so many Ukrainians have made it clear that they will fight-- Putin is scared-- scared of the Russians being inadequate,being shown up and made look ridiculous-- again.The fact is Russia would be humiliated if Ukraine gets help from the west- and that would spell the end of Putin himself and all the craziness of his ambitions.

Ukrainians are divided almost equally on the issue of military conflict. inpress.ua Ukrainians shared equally in the event of armed conflict with Russia Only every tenth Ukrainian categorically will not participate in hostilities under any circumstances. Yes Ukrainian answered the question: "Are you willing to personally take part in the fighting against Russia in the event of an invasion of Russian troops on the territory of Ukraine?". The survey was conducted specifically for the marathon TSN. Not ready to defend Ukraine - one in five in the west, one in four of the center and north. In the south and east is not ready to fight, almost half of the respondents. And in Crimea Ukraine can count on one in ten who are willing to resist Russian forces. Will take up arms without hesitation 19% excluding the Ukrainian Crimea and 18% of the Crimea. Rather ready to fight - 29% "continental" Ukrainian "and 27% - given the Crimeans. Rather ready, but hope for a peaceful resolution of the issue - 14% without the Crimea (15% of the Crimea), and not ready to fight - 19% and 20 %, respectively. yet 16% do not have the opportunity to participate in the fighting over health., and only 3% were undecided.

Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/polovina-ukrayinciv-gotova-vzyati-v-ruki-zbroyu-u-razi-rosiyskogo-vtorgnennya-opituvannya-341276.html

[lordtiberius]

Typical Soviet military doctrine: demoralization, crisis & purge.

[BillyB]

Why hasn't he invaded already?  Time is not on his side.

Putin is using his time wisely as he sees fit. As long as he is holding the leash of his mad dog, Iran, he has all the time in the world. He has agents in East Ukraine talking to pro-Russia politicians right now. Putin prefers to take over Ukraine by way of vote until he learns he can't and then he'll decide if he has to use alternative methods.


One would think it's over after Crimea and Putin would stay quiet yet he's running his mouth more than ever saying America is a hypocrite, started illegal wars, and trying to dictate to everyone how to live their lives. It's working. Putin's approval rating has gone up and hatred of America is at an all time high. Krimster, in another thread, said it's a dangerous time for Americans in Crimea and he would be dead by now if he were still living there. I read a journalist say his friends in Moscow have never see so much propaganda as they've seen now. Putin is using his time to generate support for his next move.


Sanctions isn't going to stop Putin. Even if Obama sanctioned Putin himself and Putin took a billion dollar hit in the wallet, Putin just acquired a piece of land the size of the state of Massachusetts and all it's inhabitants. Putin got a good deal.


Sanctions will definitely hurt the people of Russia though and it will have it's desired effect of getting the Russian citizens angry but not angry at Putin, they'll be angry at us. After WWI, Germany was punished severely economically and instead taming them, the citizens got angry, elected guys like Hitler and supported his actions.


Russia is offering more money and pensions for men to join the military. Their military will grow. Many young men needing work in a bad economy may think this is a good deal but if the Russian military is used in a war soon, it would be hard for Putin to pay them when they're laying in a grave.

[jone]

Hmmm.

I disagree.  When you chop off 1,000,000 pro-Russian voters (Crimea) and piss off the rest of the country, you will have a very hard time getting pro-Russians elected.  Every Russian national that I have talked to from the Dneiper to the Russian border has told me the exact same thing.  "We don't want the Russians in our country."

Quite honestly, there are no appeasers left.  Ukraine is left in a very Nationalistic mood.  Ukrainians, all of them but a few, do NOT like Russia right now.  I wonder why?

The only way for Ukraine to flip Putin the finger is at the ballot box.    As much as it happened in Sevastopol, it will happen in Kharkiv, Donetsk, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa and the rest of Ukraine.  Except the banners will no longer be White, Blue and Red.  They will be the color of a Blue Sky on a field of Wheat.

[BillyB]

  When you chop off 1,000,000 pro-Russian voters (Crimea) and piss off the rest of the country, you will have a very hard time getting pro-Russians elected.

It's not about he who cast the votes, it's about he who counts the votes that matters in Ukraine today and it was no different in the past when getting pro-Russian politicians, such as Yanukovych, elected. If voting happens in other parts of Ukraine, Russia will be there, just as they were in Crimea, to make sure the ballots get counted fairly.

[JayH]

It's not about he who cast the votes, it's about he who counts the votes that matters in Ukraine today and it was no different in the past when getting pro-Russian politicians, such as Yanukovych, elected. If voting happens in other parts of Ukraine, Russia will be there, just as they were in Crimea, to make sure the ballots get counted fairly.

Billy--first up you are totally  out of touch and  not getting the mood of Ukraine right now-did you even read the posts I made above? More than half are willing to FIGHT Russia-let alone vote against them and their inteference in Ukraine.
The performance of the new government and the NEW attitude  is going to see a free and fair election conducted--most probably with transparency like never before.
Seriously-to you and others that are stuck in previous era's-- learn about Maidan and what it now represents to Ukrainian people- they sacrificed to join the democratic world--not go backwards to a dark age.

[BillyB]

More than half are willing to FIGHT Russia-let alone vote against them and their inteference in Ukraine.

I've read what you've read but action is stronger than words. The majority of Ukrainians wanted to have Ukraine, in it's entirety, align with the West. Between the majority of Ukrainians and Putin, Putin so far is getting his way.

The performance of the new government and the NEW attitude  is going to see a free and fair election conducted--most probably with transparency like never before.

The new Ukrainian government said weeks ago they weren't going to let Crimea go. Another case of words instead of action.

Seriously-to you and others that are stuck in previous era's-- learn about Maidan and what it now represents to Ukrainian people- they sacrificed to join the democratic world--not go backwards to a dark age.

The events at Maidan got guys like Yanukovych to back off but it won't affect guys like Putin. Putin has the backing of his military, something Yanukovych didn't have. The illegal events at Maiden, as Russia calls it, have fired up Putin and his citizens. Tantrums happen when people stops befriending others.


My wife has been reading a lot of patriotic articles lately and watching the Ukrainian news, just like you. She told me Ukrainians are willing to die for their country if Russia continues. She told me Ukrainians are proud and strong. I told her the goal should be getting the enemy to die for their country but without the West's commitment for military assistance, Ukraine doesn't stand a chance against Russia.


You've been watching Russian news lately? You can find some on Youtube. Putin has been giving passionate speeches on how Russians and Ukrainians are one and the same and that the city of Kiev is part of Mother Russia's rich history. There were Russians crying during these speeches.

[dogspot]

Billy--first up you are totally  out of touch and  not getting the mood of Ukraine right now-did you even read the posts I made above? More than half are willing to FIGHT Russia-let alone vote against them and their inteference in Ukraine.
The performance of the new government and the NEW attitude  is going to see a free and fair election conducted--most probably with transparency like never before.
Seriously-to you and others that are stuck in previous era's-- learn about Maidan and what it now represents to Ukrainian people- they sacrificed to join the democratic world--not go backwards to a dark age.

Kool aid comes in many different flavors. It's obvious you have a favorite. I'm curious about what you think will happen to free press in the NEW Ukraine. According to the recent actions of deputy head of Ukraine’s committee on freedom of speech, the aim is to suppress. Check this out:

http://www.euronews.com/2014/03/19/ukranian-tv-boss-assaulted-and-forced-to-resign-by-far-right-svoboda-mps/

It has been said here before, the members of Rada didn't change after Yanukovich's ouster. The NEW Ukrainian government is the same as it was before. The corruption, the intimidation isn't going anywhere. If I were a betting man, I would wager that things aren't going to change all that much in the NEW Ukraine. Lies, deceit, and corruption will always be a part of Ukrainian politics.