Did you meet your partner WMVM or WOVO?

[RussianWind]

What we all will agree about I think is that there is no universal formula for everybody.
It sounds strange but we found out that some sites work for some women and completely waste of time for others. I can't explain it, all girls are young and pretty.

[boaterguy]

Perhaps the choice of WOVO vs WMVM is a personality thing?
I wonder if the typical WOVO kinda' guy is the same guy who concentrates on one Woman at a time back home in the West and the WMVM guy is the type who has many Women 'on the go' back home?
Perhaps the guy who fails at WMVM does so because he really is a WOVO type personality, and visa versa?
What are your thoughts guys?
Perhaps it's too simplistic a theory, but it might have merit.....
Myself, most definitely a WOVO type personality

I think you may be on to something here. I was WOVO and only dated 1 lady at a time at home as well!

[Bruce]

Beat the dead horse again.   I can not vote because you need to add the column WNVM (write none visit many) or WAVM (write a bunch visit many) - ie. give a general announcement that you are comming and start your search real time!   After you meet many you can actually see if chemistry is there or not, whittle down, write letters and then meet the right girl for you to start dating.   Simple, it works and I highly recommend it.    The proof is right here in the pudding, though I will admit different strokes for different folks and there is no one way to fit all.   My advice, do something which gets you meeting gals in real time as opposed to the fantasy land of virtual world.

[UTRO]

My advice, do something which gets you meeting gals in real time as opposed to the fantasy land of virtual world.

Bruce, I see what you are getting at, but there's no way in Hell I would have flown 7000km to Russia to see someone I hadn't learned anything about through writing and talking to beforehand.

I imagine that you are referring more to the Keyboard Romeos and Juliets??

Guys may think that writing/emailing is a waste of time....... however, those first emails that I wrote to Svetlana, before we met, are cherished by her today. They were long and sometimes took a few hours to write. She feels that these emails are one of the most romantic things I ever did. She really did get to know about me, family, values, morals, opinions, feelings, etc... and I hers...
Intimate and personal things that you put down in writing are the sometimes serious and pertinent things that are never discussed when first meeting one another, simply due to the euphoria and excitement of the first 'meet'.
Those letters really set up the pleasure and anticipation of meeting each other. Indeed, they were The determining factor in Sveta's decision to meet me.

[Gylden]

Bruce,
My question for you as a "HERO MEMBER" here. Do you consider this forum for example a part of the fantasy land of the virtual world?
  ???

[Blues Fairy]

Would you prefer he looks at you for 3 seconds, then turns his head and ignores you the rest of the evening.  OR would you prefer he comes over, talks to you for 5 minutes

Easy.  Being dumped after some kind of relationship is a lot more disappointing than being dumped after a brief glance/correspondence.  So my answer is still the same - early selection process rules. 

I have a question for BluesFairy and RussianWind.   Just curious if the man you married was the only man you met through the international dating scene?

Nope, not the first - but the previous ones were, more like, friends or colleagues turned prospects.  Some went back to the friends status.  I only met people in third countries, during my business/leisure travel. 

[BillyB]

I posted this below in response to Misha in another thread when he said "However, on the poll, the WOVO option leads by close to a 3 to 1 margin" but it should belong here.

We really don't know how much success that means for WOVO. 30 men may go to the FSU as a WOVO and 3 are successful. 10 men may go to the FSU and 3 are successful but the WOVO outnumber the WMVM 3 to 1. We need to understand the success ratio compared to failure to understand which method is most successful. There is no doubt from over 4 years reading at forums that more failure happens in WOVO trip reports. Most people who end up failing post a little and disappear forever so it would be difficult to get them involved in a poll for failures.

I did 4 VO

1) My ex fiancee had to be hospitalized the day our visa was approved. She went into culture shock before ever stepping in America.

2) Woman didn't show up. She just lost her job, staying with her parents out of town relying on them for financial support and didn't want her marrying a foreigner. I just talked to her a few days ago and she just had a baby and is happy.

3) Woman I met was living with an ex-boyfriend so I ended it until her life is completely free of past boyfriends. She enjoyed living in the center of Kiev and I don't think she was willing to downgrade to a cheaper apartment anytime soon.

4) Woman liked me but her parents didn't want to meet me and it affected her to the point I knew it was going to be an uphill battle and it was not worth it.

In each case I wrote Very Many and had lots of communication but other circumstances in life can ruin everything. 4 failed VO

Although I do VO, I recommend VM because I feel most guys do not communicate well with the ladies to gauge if a woman really likes them. I suspect most guys who go to the FSU never got on the phone with the lady their visiting. Also If things go bad on a VO,  I can get dates in the FSU within hours and not through an agency. Dating sites and meeting women on the street. It's easy to get phone numbers of the ladies on the street if you know how to present yourself.

My plan was to give one woman my undivided attention if she wanted it and she would understand that I dedicated my visit to only her. VO can be more romantic but it also has a higher failure rate. A guy doing a VM rarely stops searching at the first woman. Kuna did it and his wife wasn't the first woman he met.

[Ade]

Billy, yes, not a lot can be inferred by the poll except that quite a few people do go the VO route and are successful. This contrary to what some people would have us believe.

[Misha]

We really don't know how much success that means for WOVO. 30 men may go to the FSU as a WOVO and 3 are successful.

It does mean, however, that of the 33 married people who replied to poll so far on this forum, 24 found success with a WOVO as opposed to 9 with a WMVM. So, this implies that doing a WOVO is not "insane."

[UTRO]

Billy! When going VO, go to a third country so she can't escape you Preferably a Caribbean Island 

[BillyB]

It does mean, however, that of the 33 married people who replied to poll so far on this forum, 24 found success with a WOVO as opposed to 8 with a WMVM. So, this implies that doing a WOVO is not "insane."

Yes, WOVO is insane. All men in this endeavor are insane according to society. 24 WOVO guys finding success out of maybe 300 WOVO guy who may have gone over there is not success. Until we find out how many failed, we can't call anything successful. This forum is but a small group out of a much larger picture.

Although I've done VO and got dates easily to be a VM instantly, I can't assume any of those dates will end up in marriage either. A first date or first visit is just to get to know the woman. I have no intention to propose marriage on a first visit. One main advantage of a WOVO over a WMVM is that he gets to spend more time with one woman in an attempt to get to know her well. A WMVM would have to reschedule another trip to be a WOVO if he and one of the ladies he visited clicked. He will still be a step behind. WMVM guy has the advantage of meeting many women to make a better choice. A face to face meeting is worth a whole lot more than letters and phone calls.

In real life in your own backyard, you may have to date 20 ladies before you find one that you click with. Very few people get married to the first woman they ever date. With those kind of odds, it's expensive doing it in the FSU.

[Misha]

Yes, WOVO is insane. All men in this endeavor are insane according to society.

And the men going to the FSU on WMVM trips are all social paragons of sanity?

24 WOVO guys finding success out of maybe 300 WOVO guy who may have gone over there is not success. Until we find out how many failed, we can't call anything successful. This forum is but a small group out of a much larger picture.

So, when are you going to present me the stats on the successful versus unsuccessful WMVM trips? Yes, it is a limited sample, but this limited sample shows that there are more men here replying who were married after WOVO trips than men after WMVM trips. If WOVO was truly insane, then the opposite should have happened.

[Turboguy]

Personally I think Billy might have hit the nail on the head.   

A man does a successful WOVO he is here posting the wonders of the system. 

A man does an unsuccessful WOVO he fades off into oblivion never to be heard from and never to post about the pitfalls of WOVO.  I can think of a number of the guys I knew such as PhotoGuy who did a WOVO, and is no longer thinking of RW,  our former member PeeWee who did a WOVO that was a disaster and is long gone.  My friend from Atlanta that did two disastrous WOVO and is long gone from the RW scene.  I only had one time that I did a VO that seemed to go somewhere and lots of times I visited several women none of whom were really good candidates. 

I have a feeling our sample in the poll is biased.

[Ade]

Personally I think Billy might have hit the nail on the head.   

A man does a successful WOVO he is here posting the wonders of the system. 

A man does an unsuccessful WOVO he fades off into oblivion never to be heard from and never to post about the pitfalls of WOVO.  I can think of a number of the guys I knew such as PhotoGuy who did a WOVO, and is no longer thinking of RW,  our former member PeeWee who did a WOVO that was a disaster and is long gone.  My friend from Atlanta that did two disastrous WOVO and is long gone from the RW scene.  I only had one time that I did a VO that seemed to go somewhere and lots of times I visited several women none of whom were really good candidates. 

I have a feeling our sample in the poll is biased.

Don't be silly. That exact same logic can be applied to VM men too. 

[RussianWind]

A man does an unsuccessful WOVO he fades off into oblivion never to be heard from and never to post about the pitfalls of WOVO.  

Yeah, according to your theory VM men are thick-skinned, just bulletproof people  

30 voters are not 100 but still not 3 to see the tendency.

[UTRO]

A man does an unsuccessful WOVO he fades off into oblivion never to be heard from and never to post about the pitfalls of WOVO.  I have a feeling our sample in the poll is biased.

Not necessarily Turbo.
I'm not ashamed to admit that my first WOVO failed...... but I learned from it and avoided making the same mistakes twice.

[UTRO]

........ and I'm sure that there are just as many WMVM guys that have dropped off of RWD, as there are WOVO who have.

[BillyB]

And the men going to the FSU on WMVM trips are all social paragons of sanity?

Misha, I said "All men in this endeavor are insane according to society."

Yeah, according to your theory VM men are thick-skinned, just bulletproof people

Very rarely do you read a trip report from a VM man crying that things did not work out so yeah, I guess you can say they are less emotionally sensitive when a woman turns them down. They are more likely to understand the dating game a little better and date women with a "friends first" approach. Unlike the VO man who put all his eggs in one basket, the VM man has options should one lady turn out to be insincere or incompatible. Another reason he's more likely to enjoy his trip to the FSU should a lady dump him.

I've read enough trip reports to understand which man is emotionally tougher when a woman rejects him and which man quits the forums after failure. A lot of men who WOVO tend to post their story, get bashed for not seeing the red flags and questioned why they spent so much time with that woman and never come back here. Love does not conquer all. In a perfect World WOVO is the way to go I'll admit.

[BC]

When will folks ever realize that a poll will NEVER give substance to the decisions of an individual.  The individual odds at best are 50/50.. either it will work or it will not work regardless of method.

I have a feeling our sample in the poll is biased.

The only bias evident that can be proven lies with interpretation of the results.

Using the poll in an attempt to demonstrate that one method is more valid, in order to steer unmarried 'seekers' down a more successful path is simply WRONG.

The results simply shows that within the group "RWD members" more poll participants met their partner WOVO than WMVM .

The only 'safe bet' presented is that if the poll were run again a year from now, the results would likely be similar.  Anyone want to wager on that?

KISS and use whatever method you are comfortable with, realizing that success or failure lies solely with you.

[Gylden]

BC,
Finally a bit of sanity on this thread!!
Thanks!

[RussianWind]

Very rarely do you read a trip report from a VM man crying that things did not work out so yeah, I guess you can say they are less emotionally sensitive when a woman turns them down.

That's the key of their higher success. It needs to tango. Not 3 not 5.

The individual odds at best are 50/50.. either it will work or it will not work regardless of method.

Really?
What's your chance to meet a dinosaur tomorrow on the street? 50/50. Either you meet it or not  

[UTRO]

Again, I believe it narrows down to the Personality of the Individual, whether he goes one way or the other..... or frequents Dating Socials for that matter.
However, as far as the Women are concerned, I don't believe that there are many who would accept that they were number 10, number 5, or even number 2 on someones List. 

[RussianWind]

However, as far as the Women are concerned, I don't believe that there are many who would accept that they were number 10, number 5, or even number 2 on someones List. 

Except agency girls. But they actually don't care who to meet. They say: "Searching for a husband is a job" and they take it as a job. Nothing personal 

[Bruce]

Gylden - short answer is NO.    Before this board was infiltrated with Johnny come lately fools and women there were a lot of good old American men searching for their better half overseas in the FSU, notably Russia and Ukraine.   We gave the best advice we could to each other based on real experience.    This board came from American guys getting pissed off with another board, who were in part bored and tired of the limitations of another board.    Similarly, this board has splintered with a good amount on another board.    Guys like me who have made 22 individual trips to Russia from the USA and two individual trips to Ukraine have a lot of experience that discerning individuals could use to aid  them in their search.   Sure there are a few lucky men who despite doing what ordinarily does not work for most men end up accomplishing their goal of long term marriage to a woman from Russia or Ukraine.    There are some who can only find a woman who would marry them in Russia or Ukraine and feel they are so lucky - usually short term until they are taken to the cleaners that is.   Dan is a good guy with incredible experience from the old PL board who set up this board to compete the RWG board which imploded due to a number of reasons one of which probably was an owner not married to a FSU woman who was a computer geek looking to cash out - which he ultimately did.   Dan's heart is in the right place though Dan is inclusive to a fault.   Times change though die hards like me looking to give back to the community do occasionally check in.   WOVO works for some but my opinion will not change having tried many different methods until I got things right for me that WOVO is like a broken clock right twice per day.

[Misha]

A man does an unsuccessful WOVO he fades off into oblivion never to be heard from and never to post about the pitfalls of WOVO. 

Yes, and how many WMVM men after a few trip also gave up if they did not get married? The same logic can apply equally to both. Likewise, a successfully married WOVO, it could be argued, is more likely to no longer bother with forums as he no longer needs the advice