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Author Topic: Ukraine is losing the war  (Read 129371 times)

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Offline fathertime

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #275 on: January 29, 2015, 07:15:21 PM »

What do you call sizable? Because the Russians want to go a bit farther than Kyiv.


Now, think for a moment. Do you think that the western part of the country will take this peacefully?  Not to mention Kyiv proper.



When the Russians try to take Kyiv, it will be a bloodbath. Think Nazis approaching Moscow in WWII and you'll get the idea.



I don't think that the Russian backed rebels/Russians will go to kiev...I don't think they ever intended to....I think you are correct, at that point it would likely be just too bloody...I'd like to see it stop now, with some sort of settlement...let it end and be thankful it doesn't get to the point where 100's of 1000's start dying.


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #276 on: January 29, 2015, 07:17:07 PM »
I saw it differently.

The top photo announces a Russian government press release: 

"Russian citizens, you do not need to eat dirt because of sanctions.  Move from the cities to the Steppes where you can grow food for your family table."


The bottom photo says, "Your Russian government provides free transportation, and you will develop lovely suntans working in the fields."
It says it's better to live in Sand Hills, Nebraska than Mumbai, India. :P

Brass
I know, I know this one.


It says, And then I grabbed his balls...

We could start our own online translation service...wedon'teventrytogetitremotelyright.com

Brass
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Offline Muzh

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #277 on: January 29, 2015, 07:19:22 PM »



I don't think that the Russian backed rebels/Russians will go to kiev...I don't think they ever intended to....I think you are correct, at that point it would likely be just too bloody...I'd like to see it stop now, with some sort of settlement...let it end and be thankful it doesn't get to the point where 100's of 1000's start dying.


Fathertime!   


Well, maybe you are right. The rebels will NOT go to Kyiv. The Russians will. THAT is the strategy from Putler and they are playing that game.


There is NOT going to be any settlement.


If it happens Poroshenko will be kicked out and the radicals will jump in. That is EXACTLY what Putler is waiting for.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Muzh

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #278 on: January 29, 2015, 07:19:54 PM »
We could start our own online translation service...wedon'teventrytogetitremotelyright.com

Brass


I'm in.  ;D
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline AC

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #279 on: January 29, 2015, 07:23:32 PM »
We could start our own online translation service...wedon'teventrytogetitremotelyright.com

Brass

That means we could move to Odessa, Ukraine and make a fortune working for a mob agency like Anastasia... :P

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #280 on: January 29, 2015, 07:24:47 PM »



I don't think that the Russian backed rebels/Russians will go to kiev...I don't think they ever intended to....I think you are correct, at that point it would likely be just too bloody...I'd like to see it stop now, with some sort of settlement...let it end and be thankful it doesn't get to the point where 100's of 1000's start dying.


Fathertime!   


Putin's strategy is to take Kyiv (by supporting a compliant politician).  He doesn't need Donbas, which is not a net positive, economically, for the country.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline JayH

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #281 on: January 29, 2015, 07:24:59 PM »
Киев — Директор Европейского Института политической культуры, военный эксперт Александр Булавин отметил, что по официальной статистике уже более миллиона украинцев отказалась от мобилизации. Об этом он заявил в комментарии УНН.

По словам военного эксперта, настоящая цифра намного выше.

«Есть информация, что уже и Днепропетровская область также провалила мобилизацию. Вообще, уже звучала цифра, что около миллиона человек уже отказались от участия в боевых действиях. И эта цифра официальная. Настоящая цифра явно гораздо выше. И многие люди, не только те, кого призывают, но и те, кто работает в военных комиссариатах, и люди, которые занимаются реализацией, они также не уверены в том, что они выполняют верные приказы и поступают верно по этой мобилизации», — подчеркнул он.

Эксперт отметил, что согласно соцопросам большинство украинцев против военных действий.

«Любой солдат, который вступает в боевые действия — он продолжает войну, усиливает потери, усиливает беды. Ко всему, изменилась тональность Запада в СМИ, которая требует немедленного отвода тяжелой техники и прекращения военных действий. И я считаю, что оружием нельзя решить эти проблемы, которые есть на Донбассе. Это приводит к бедствиям в семьях, разрушениям инфраструктуры и затратам очень больших бюджетных средств», — пояснил Булавин.

Кроме того, эксперт считает, что сейчас любой юрист может легко доказать на законодательном уровне, что объявленная мобилизация является незаконной.

«Конечно первая причина почему мужчины не хотят идти воевать — это эмоциональная. Понимаете, продолжение войны приносит большие человеческие жертвы. И каждый человек, который принимает решение поступать в армию, опасается, что большое количество мирного населения на Донбассе погибает просто так. И они не хотели бы быть причастными к этому. Помимо всего прочего реальная боязнь за свою жизнь. Вспомните львовского журналиста, который говорил, что лучше сядет в тюрьму, чем пойдет на войну. Тем более, что сейчас есть тысяча адвокатов, которые легко могут доказать, что мобилизация, объявленная властью не является законной, ведь у нас даже военного положения нет», — заметил Булавин.

Напомним, как сообщает издание DW, все больше украинцев скрываются от мобилизации за рубежом. Кроме того, президент РФ Владимир Путин предложил увеличить срок пребывания на территории РФ для граждан Украины, особенно для мужчин призывного возраста.

В то же время в социальных сетях все чаще можно встретить призывы к уклонению от мобилизации.


Doll-- why be quoting a Russian source for internal Ukrainian affairs? The topic has much written about in in Ukraine and almost certainly has quite a different perspective.
At the same time-you can read of Russian conscripts refusing call up--btw-- why is Russia conscripting?
You can also read of the troops who are now refusing to go into Ukraine--or about the shock families are getting to discover their loved ones are in a war in Ukraine.
Do you want to comment on that?Time to take the blinkers off--or is it complete eye-shade?
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline BillyB

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #282 on: January 29, 2015, 07:27:25 PM »

Actually I still think the outcome will be a version of the type of division of country I spoke of when the crisis started....Sure it probably won't be called a win-win at this late juncture...but the outcome may still be similar,



Poreshenko would be lucky to come out of this crisis as President of West Ukraine. Putin wants to own Crimea and the East at a minimum. He will get it. The EU has ruled out military intervention and Obama is reluctant to outdo his EU friends. The EU wants to settle quickly so they can get back to business with Russia. Unfortunately, I don't think Putin will settle if only sanctions and the Ukrainian military is in his way. Why go for a slice when he can have the whole pie? He doesn't have to burn down every city, he just needs Kiev.



I don't think that the Russian backed rebels/Russians will go to kiev...I don't think they ever intended to.......I don't think they ever intended to....I think you are correct, at that point it would likely be just too bloody..



You didn't believe Putin was going into East Ukraine after Crimea. Some didn't believe he was even going after Crimea. What we do know now is Putin wants land. Kiev is the crown jewel of cities in Ukraine. If Putin can turn pro Russian cities in the East into a bloodbath, he can certainly turn a more neutral/pro West city such as Kiev into a bloodbath. Putin is capable of doing a lot more bad than you and I ever would. We can't assume he thinks and have a heart like us.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Muzh

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #283 on: January 29, 2015, 07:27:59 PM »
That means we could move to Odessa, Ukraine and make a fortune working for a mob agency like Anastasia... :P


To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline JayH

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #284 on: January 29, 2015, 07:29:47 PM »

Well, maybe you are right. The rebels will NOT go to Kyiv. The Russians will. THAT is the strategy from Putler and they are playing that game.


There is NOT going to be any settlement.


If it happens Poroshenko will be kicked out and the radicals will jump in. That is EXACTLY what Putler is waiting for.
You got it !  Except--I would not classify as radicals--but the hard edge of Nationalism.
I often think of the young woman whose husband was shot dead at Maidan- she said-- he would prefer to have died trying for freedom than live under previous regime .That sentiment is very strong in Ukraine.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Muzh

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #285 on: January 29, 2015, 07:37:44 PM »
You got it !  Except--I would not classify as radicals--but the hard edge of Nationalism.
I often think of the young woman whose husband was shot dead at Maidan- she said-- he would prefer to have died trying for freedom than live under previous regime .That sentiment is very strong in Ukraine.


Nope, radicals with a capital R.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #286 on: January 29, 2015, 08:06:22 PM »
That means we could move to Odessa, Ukraine and make a fortune working for a mob agency like Anastasia... :P

Yeah...

Mike in Moncton, a 38 year old bride hunter goes on line, logs in and sees a picture of a circa 1970's swimsuit model torn from a Sports Illustrated magazine scotch taped to the camera lens.

Mike in Moncton: "Uh, hello Brasstlenka can you tell me a bit about yourself?"

Brasstlenka: "Sure, bud. I'm in my 50's, 6'2", 225lbs, shave my head and sport a goatee. How do you like me so far?...Send money."

Mike in Moncton: *Long pause*..."Uhh. How much money do you want me to send?"

Brasstlenka: "You're an idiot. Turn your computer off and go find a nice local girl before you get taken to the cleaners and I have to climb through this coaxial cable and smack you up the side of the head for being a moron, savvy?"

Mike in Moncton: *Click*

...Another satisfied client of wedon'teventrytogetitremotelyright.com

Brass

edit: Thought I'd change Utah to Moncton as there's someone posting from Utah  :P
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 08:44:46 PM by Brasscasing »
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

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Offline Doll

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #287 on: January 30, 2015, 04:57:16 AM »
Quote
You can also read of the troops who are now refusing to go into Ukraine--or about the shock families are getting to discover their loved ones are in a war in Ukraine.
Do you want to comment on that?

Sure- nobody wants war.




Offline sleepycat

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #288 on: January 30, 2015, 06:33:13 AM »
Sure- nobody wants war.

Except Putinist scum...  ;)

Offline Doll

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #289 on: January 30, 2015, 10:51:38 AM »
I said NOBODY- at least in Russia.
I know it for sure.

Offline calmissile

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #290 on: January 30, 2015, 11:44:51 AM »
I said NOBODY- at least in Russia.
I know it for sure.

Then why are they showing up in East Ukraine?
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline The Natural

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #291 on: January 30, 2015, 01:32:30 PM »
Then why are they showing up in East Ukraine?

Some, on their own Accord, to save women and children from Your Savage friends, the nazis.

Online Hammer2722

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #292 on: January 30, 2015, 01:33:54 PM »
Some, on their own Accord, to save women and children from Your Savage friends, the nazis.

 :ROFL: :thumbsdown:
every ship can be a minesweeper at least once...

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #293 on: January 30, 2015, 01:40:58 PM »
Some, on their own Accord, to save women and children from Your Savage friends, the nazis.

You need to read more balanced sources.
 
The so called "rebels" who started this war were FSB officers from Moscow, not locals.  The majority of the fighters were paid mercenaries from Russia.  There were no "savages" from Ukraine on their territory demanding anything. 

Those killed recently have been killed by the "rebels", not ATO forces.  Furthermore, the "rebels" have such enlightened policies as suggesting that women not be allowed in restaurants (they should be home, tending to their children). 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline BillyB

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #294 on: January 30, 2015, 01:46:42 PM »
Then why are they showing up in East Ukraine?


Putin said those are Russians who are following their heart. He isn't denying Russians are in East Ukraine but he is denying he sent them there.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline The Natural

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #295 on: January 30, 2015, 01:49:42 PM »

Putin said those are Russians who are following their heart. He isn't denying Russians are in East Ukraine but he is denying he sent them there.

He never denied Russian Nationals went there on their own accord. But western propaganda makes that into a Russian invasion. If that were the guidelines, USA has also invaded. There have been and are right now US personell in uniform in Ukraine!

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #296 on: January 30, 2015, 01:55:24 PM »
But they are not being paid by the Americans, and the numbers are likely counted on one's hands.  Furthermore, the Americans are not providing Ukraine with lethal weaponry.  Russia is supplying the terrorists, and many of those terrorists are Russian nationals, as many as 60%.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline The Natural

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #297 on: January 30, 2015, 01:57:18 PM »

You need to read more balanced sources.
 
The so called "rebels" who started this war were FSB officers from Moscow, not locals.  The majority of the fighters were paid mercenaries from Russia.  There were no "savages" from Ukraine on their territory demanding anything. 

Those killed recently have been killed by the "rebels", not ATO forces.  Furthermore, the "rebels" have such enlightened policies as suggesting that women not be allowed in restaurants (they should be home, tending to their children).

So much propaganda, so little time, Bo. Had my wife read Your response. Asked her what she thinks. Bullshit, she replied. Now we're gonna watch a Movie  ;)

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #298 on: January 30, 2015, 02:01:42 PM »
Well, your wife is wrong.  I read from various sources.  I have posted the names of the Muscovite leaders who were called back to Moscow, replaced by compliant locals.  There is lots of independent evidence of the Russian mercenaries fighting, including fights between factions.  So, to your wife, I say, "right back atya".
 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline BillyB

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Re: Ukraine is losing the war
« Reply #299 on: January 30, 2015, 02:03:15 PM »
He never denied Russian Nationals went there on their own accord.



You are right about that and many in the West falsely believe Putin is denying any Russians are in East Ukraine but........


western propaganda makes that into a Russian invasion.



What if someday Putin admits he sent troops into East Ukraine? Would you take back your words and say Putin supplied the propaganda and the West was right all along? You believed Putin when he initially said those little green men in Crimea wasn't his but he later admitted they were Russian soldiers. Apparently, you haven't questioned Putin's honesty after that lie.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

 

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