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Author Topic: Putin is Ruining Russia  (Read 232942 times)

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Offline GQBlues

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Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
« Reply #400 on: July 30, 2014, 09:49:21 PM »
...
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/07/29/ath-starr-officials-ukraine-military-fired-at-rebels.cnn.html


This report came out and then nothing more was said...the story just disappeared....very odd...it was US 'intelligence' that detected the launches so they say.

Isn't it interesting to watch them *use* the same Digital Globe's satellite images that were used to accuse Russia of firing missiles unto Ukraine and refer to them as US spy satellite images, while citing weaponry that the Ukrainian government is supposed to not have, and its increased use while de-escalation effort is supposed to be in effect.

Don't be surprise at the suppressed nature of this type of activities. It's counter to the mainstream ideals of *democracy* we profess to bring unto everyone. Just like there were hardly any coverage to none of the bombings and slaughter of Libyan citizens either.

Spreading democracy unto our world one nation at a time - our way.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 09:53:16 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline fathertime

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Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
« Reply #401 on: July 30, 2014, 09:59:24 PM »
Isn't it interesting to watch them *use* the same Digital Globe's satellite images that were used to accuse Russia of firing missiles unto Ukraine and refer to them as US spy satellite.

Don't be surprise at the suppressed nature of this type of activities. It's counter to the mainstream ideals of *democracy* we profess to bring unto everyone. Just like there were hardly any coverage to none of the bombings and slaughter of Libyan citizens either.

Spreading democracy unto our world one nation at a time - our way.


You know I may have been naive when I generally believed the western media's version of how that jet went down....But frankly...I'm starting to have some genuine second thoughts now....if they have been able to suppress the ballistic missile story, then they can easily suppress information regarding how the jet went down.   It doesn't seem rational though, in that there are so many members of the media and it just seems to damn hard to get them to all shut up....but how the hell is the ballistic missile story being buried?? Is it a non-story?  Since it seems clear that it happened, why is there basically no stories on it after that initial CNN story and then all the Ukrainian denials. 


If indeed misinformation is running this rampant in western media, I've got concerns on more fronts then just Ukraine.   


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
« Reply #402 on: July 30, 2014, 10:02:50 PM »

You know I may have been naive when I generally believed the western media's version of how that jet went down....But frankly...I'm starting to have some genuine second thoughts now....if they have been able to suppress the ballistic missile story, then they can easily suppress information regarding how the jet went down.   It doesn't seem rational though, in that there are so many members of the media and it just seems to damn hard to get them to all shut up....but how the hell is the ballistic missile story being buried?? Is it a non-story?  Since it seems clear that it happened, why is there basically no stories on it after that initial CNN story and then all the Ukrainian denials. 


If indeed misinformation is running this rampant in western media, I've got concerns on more fronts then just Ukraine.   


In time. The truth behind such events like the gulf of Tonkin took decades....MH17 I've stuck away for later revelations. I will make no judgment until then. This is tragic as is the present conflict.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
« Reply #403 on: July 30, 2014, 10:09:02 PM »
So now I'd like to ask jone...

Show me evidence that Russia was firing missiles unto Ukraine.

Show me evidence that Russia is actively sending weapons and soldiers into Ukraine.

Show me evidence that Russia provided the BUK Missile that the Separatist supposedly used to shoot down MH17.

Show me evidence of our *generous attitudes* with our economic trades with countries of Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Congo, Somalia, Venezuela, Kosovo, etc....

Show me our benevolent self when we accused Syria of gassing its peoples.

Show me our generous trade with the people of Gaza.

Tell me why, despite knowing Israel committed inter-territorial act of terror against Syria (bombing and assassination of one of their official - in his home) that we didn't uphold our esteemed virtue of right and moral and sanctioned Israel like we do everyone else.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 01:27:48 PM by AnonMod »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline jone

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Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
« Reply #404 on: July 30, 2014, 10:10:03 PM »
Sorry GQ.  I ain't buyin it.  You've trotted out these 'scenarios' before.  You could just as easily made the case for Switzerland to have been the instigator.  Conjecture is all you can come up with. 

Your conspiracy is in your head.  You must have a lot of time on your hands to come up with this stuff.  As I said before, come up with some actual facts that prove that US was behind Maidan.  You have none. 

Now, in as much that I have a lovely lady beside me, I'll leave the forum to you.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Manny

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Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
« Reply #405 on: July 31, 2014, 12:25:32 AM »
There is a lot of Ukrainian civilians dead from the UKRAINIAN ARMY, yet it hasn't been reported widely.  Why is that? My feeling is that it is being downplayed by our 'representatives' as it doesn't fit into the narrative they are promoting at all.  Ballistic missiles don't get used everyday, although it is has been reported (barely) that Ukraine's govt is now using them...and the western news media is mostly ignoring it....That should seem odd.   All that said, Ukraine obviously can do as it pleases, if they feel civilians were in the way of Separatists and felt it was best to kill them all that is their choice...but not to cover it at all...that is weird. I can't help but think, had the shoe been on the other foot, Kerry, McCain, etc etc would be screaming and it would be all over the headlines.  I don't feel like we get a proper accounting of what is going on. 


Fathertime!   

Well said.

If you think its bad over the pond, you should try the British media. Every day without fail, the BBC and most newspapers run anti-Russian stories; many simply made up.

Examples:



It would be comical if the sheeple didn't believe it.

Here is a pretty on the money RT piece on it: http://rt.com/op-edge/173780-uk-media-sensationalism-propaganda/

Muzh et al, before you start ranting about RT, look at who the writer is - not an RT staffer.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 12:27:21 AM by Manny »

Online Faux Pas

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Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
« Reply #406 on: July 31, 2014, 06:13:43 AM »



If indeed misinformation is running this rampant in western media, I've got concerns on more fronts then just Ukraine.   


Fathertime!

You've been fed a steady diet of misinformation for the last 30 years. Why no complaints before now?

Online Faux Pas

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Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
« Reply #407 on: July 31, 2014, 06:20:44 AM »
Well said.

If you think its bad over the pond, you should try the British media. Every day without fail, the BBC and most newspapers run anti-Russian stories; many simply made up.

Examples:



It would be comical if the sheeple didn't believe it.

Here is a pretty on the money RT piece on it: http://rt.com/op-edge/173780-uk-media-sensationalism-propaganda/

Muzh et al, before you start ranting about RT, look at who the writer is - not an RT staffer.

You're as disingenuous as the tabloids you're ranting about. If you are going to to do a comparison, at least compare apples to apples. The RT story was the day after MH17 these tabs you post for comparison are much later.

FTR, I don't necessarily disagree with you on the media but, the way you point fingers at the Western media and champion Putin's media machine as the righteous word is laughable at best

Offline Misha

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Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
« Reply #408 on: July 31, 2014, 06:29:57 AM »
St. George ribbon is the symbol of what?
OMG- "wearing openly"!

This is an excellent account of what it symbolizes: http://m.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0416/An-orange-black-ribbon-holds-a-clue-to-eastern-Ukraine-s-chaos

Offline fathertime

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Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
« Reply #409 on: July 31, 2014, 07:01:17 AM »
You've been fed a steady diet of misinformation for the last 30 years. Why no complaints before now?


I HAVE spoke out several times, so it is inaccurate for you to say otherwise. 


On to the point, which it appears nobody is now disputing (aside from Kiev and that is understandable).


A couple other media sites are picking up the fact that nobody is covering the firing of Ballistic missiles by the Ukraine military.  Kerry and Obama, have been utterly silent on the subject.  To me, the bigger story is the fact that it is trying to be covered up.  Our horrible 'representatives' are hoping that the general populace will not hear about the story if they don't comment at all on it and dominate the news with their warping narrative.     Like I mentioned earlier, it seemed plausible that the Russian separatists shot down the plane....BUT now that is called into question.  That event and the all consuming coverage at the expense of other stories is all very questionable now. 
I hope their efforts at manipulation of the public are exposed...although they may not be.    This is precisely the sort of thing we have been told Russia does (I do believe that to be the case), but if indeed we are doing the same sort of thing...then we are no better, perhaps worse.


Media outlets are now questioning like they should have been all along:
Quote
    • U.S. claims that it had proof that the resistance fired the missiles that allegedly shot down MH17 were undermined when a U.S. intelligence official leaked information to Robert Parry indicating that the site of the missile launch was manned by personnel in Ukraine military uniforms (Airline Horror Spurs New Rush to Judgment, July 19).
    • [/size]If the White House releases its satellite "proof," what will it prove?
      [/size]The entirety of the current U.S. propaganda campaign is based on pinning the deaths from MH17 on Russia (i.e. Putin) and the east Ukraine resistance. As efficient as Obama-Kerry and the rest of the war party are at suppressing the news and dominating the public debate, a finding that the U.S. installed government in Kiev brought down that plane would expose the administration as the most callous liars to occupy the White House in some time, total bumblers, or both. Take your pic[/l][/l]
    [/list]
    I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

    Offline fathertime

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    Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
    « Reply #410 on: July 31, 2014, 07:07:01 AM »
    Well said.

    If you think its bad over the pond, you should try the British media. Every day without fail, the BBC and most newspapers run anti-Russian stories; many simply made up.

    Examples:



    It would be comical if the sheeple didn't believe it.

    Here is a pretty on the money RT piece on it: http://rt.com/op-edge/173780-uk-media-sensationalism-propaganda/

    Muzh et al, before you start ranting about RT, look at who the writer is - not an RT staffer.


    Well Manny I don't know much about the British media, but thanks for the report.  Clearly over here (in the states) we have a soft cover up in process.  I don't know how this could be happening...Although CNN produced the original video/report, nobody will touch the story now aside from non-mainstream media outlets like these.


    http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2014/07/30/ukraine-firing-ballistic-missiles-obama-


    http://telesurtv.net/english/news/Ukraine-Accused-of-Firing-Ballistic-Missiles-at-Rebels--20140729-0059.html


    Fathertime!   
    I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

    Offline Anotherkiwi

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    Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
    « Reply #411 on: July 31, 2014, 07:26:37 AM »
      ...Most Americans would  say that the news has reported that Russia has been firing missiles into Ukraine...but very few would know that Ukraine is launching Ballistic missiles and killing civilians and Separatists in mass...

      I'm not surprised that "very few" people know this - because it isn't happening!  Have you bothered looking up any information at all about ballistic missiles?  The shortest range Battlefield Range Ballistic Missile (BRBM) was the Soviet 2K6 Luna, with a range as low as 10 km.  However, that went out of service in 1982, and it appears that the current shortest range BRBM is the OTR-21 Tochka (Scarab), with a range of 70 km for the Scarab A version.  I'm pretty certain that any missiles being fired in this conflict would have a much shorter range than that, otherwise people all around the area would be reporting the launches.  There are plenty of deadly rocket-type weapons out there which aren't ballistic missiles.

      I haven't seen any reports of huge damage from any of the eastern cities - footage that I have seen is more akin to something like a Stinger missile.  Nobody is reporting whole blocks of flats destroyed, or anything remotely like it.  If any BRBMs were launched, you would surely expect destruction on the scale that we're seeing every day in Gaza.

      A couple other media sites are picking up the fact that nobody is covering the firing of Ballistic missiles by the Ukraine military.

      Because it isn't happening - see above.  "Ballistic" is derived from "ballista," the Roman weapon which launched rocks into the air in a parabolic curve.  By their very nature, these (whether rocks or rockets) come down almost vertically, not horizontally into somebody's apartment window or wall.  Any news reporter worth their salt would not be so lazy as to claim that ballistic missiles are being used.

      Like I mentioned earlier, it seemed plausible that the Russian separatists shot down the plane....BUT now that is called into question.  That event and the all consuming coverage at the expense of other stories is all very questionable now.

      Called into question by whom?  By Russian mercenaries, and pro-Russian separatists, who are desperately trying to cover their arses because they didn't know how to properly operate a BUK anti-aircraft system?  Of course there's a remote chance that the U.S. military shot down MH17 - pretty much the same chance that Elvis and Marilyn are living happily together in Moscow!

      I hope their efforts at manipulation of the public are exposed...although they may not be.    This is precisely the sort of thing we have been told Russia does (I do believe that to be the case), but if indeed we are doing the same sort of thing...then we are no better, perhaps worse.

      I won't argue with that (certainly in relation to MH17) - IF it's true.

      Media outlets are now questioning like they should have been all along: [/list]

      U.S. claims that it had proof that the resistance fired the missiles that allegedly shot down MH17 were undermined when a U.S. intelligence official leaked information to Robert Parry indicating that the site of the missile launch was manned by personnel in Ukraine military uniforms (Airline Horror Spurs New Rush to Judgment, July 19).

      Oh, gosh!  :o  You mean the rebels have absolutely no access to Ukrainian uniforms?  As the supposed launch area was right in the middle of a rebel stronghold, the Ukrainian Army must have balls of titanium to have launched any sort of attack from there.

      The entirety of the current U.S. propaganda campaign is based on pinning the deaths from MH17 on Russia (i.e. Putin) and the east Ukraine resistance. As efficient as Obama-Kerry and the rest of the war party are at suppressing the news and dominating the public debate, a finding that the U.S. installed government in Kiev brought down that plane would expose the administration as the most callous liars to occupy the White House in some time, total bumblers, or both.

      Firstly, "U.S. installed government?"  When will these people get over themselves?  The members of the Rada have not changed since the last elections, long before Maidan.  Whatever influence you or others may believe your Government to have, they did NOT cast 9.8 million votes for Poroshenko.  Somehow I don't think that he being the favoured candidate of the U.S. Government would have any influence whatsoever on the general Ukrainian public.

      Offline fathertime

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      Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
      « Reply #412 on: July 31, 2014, 07:39:35 AM »
      1.  AK, it sounds like you are questioning this report by CNN and American intelligence regarding the Ballistic missiles: Later if this finally confirmed, you will admit that you were mistaken...Right?


      http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/07/29/ath-starr-officials-ukraine-military-fired-at-rebels.cnn.html


      2.  You attributed quotes to me that were NOT mine....I put them in a quote box...and they came from this link:
      http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ukraine-Firing-Ballistic-M-by-Michael-Collins-Ballistic-Missiles_Brand-Obama_CNN_Resistance-140730-579.html


      3.  Yes I'm calling into question other stories now...the one thing that appears certain is that Ballistic missiles were almost certainly launched...and the western media is not covering that story.  I'm wondering if that will continue, or will reporters start asking questions and force an admission. I've never said Ukraine couldn't/shouldn't  do what it needs to do...but to have it covered up is counter to a lot of things...and appears to be the suppression we in the West grumble about as it pertains to Russian media.


      Fathertime!   
      I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

      Offline Doll

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      Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
      « Reply #414 on: July 31, 2014, 08:11:25 AM »

        I HAVE spoke out several times, so it is inaccurate for you to say otherwise. 


        On to the point, which it appears nobody is now disputing (aside from Kiev and that is understandable).


        A couple other media sites are picking up the fact that nobody is covering the firing of Ballistic missiles by the Ukraine military.  Kerry and Obama, have been utterly silent on the subject.  To me, the bigger story is the fact that it is trying to be covered up.  Our horrible 'representatives' are hoping that the general populace will not hear about the story if they don't comment at all on it and dominate the news with their warping narrative.     Like I mentioned earlier, it seemed plausible that the Russian separatists shot down the plane....BUT now that is called into question.  That event and the all consuming coverage at the expense of other stories is all very questionable now. 
        I hope their efforts at manipulation of the public are exposed...although they may not be.    This is precisely the sort of thing we have been told Russia does (I do believe that to be the case), but if indeed we are doing the same sort of thing...then we are no better, perhaps worse.


        Media outlets are now questioning like they should have been all along: [/list]

        Pretend for a minute that perhaps CNN (your valued news supplier) Got it wrong. Were fed erroneous information and in their lust to be the first to report it plastered it on the airwaves and then discovered they got it all wrong and were fed some bullshit. CNN will be the last outlet to do follow up on it. How does that story look now through those lenses?

        Supposedly, their source for the story was the White House, complete with satelite photos. It HAS to be true doesn't it? It comes from the WH afterall. They have photos. The White House has never lied before, have they?

        Offline fathertime

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        Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
        « Reply #415 on: July 31, 2014, 08:33:33 AM »
          Pretend for a minute that perhaps CNN (your valued news supplier) Got it
        wrong. Were fed erroneous information and in their lust to be the first to report it plastered it on the airwaves and then discovered they got it all wrong and were fed some bullshit. CNN will be the last outlet to do follow up on it. How does that story look now through those lenses?

        Supposedly, their source for the story was the White House, complete with satelite photos. It HAS to be true doesn't it? It comes from the WH afterall. They have photos. The White House has never lied before, have they?
        Of course this possible, but it doesn't seem likely the Whitehouse would concoct a story against the agenda they appear to be forwarding. 
        I don't know if it is possible for people to be fair-minded anymore on this subject...but it certainly appears to be a soft cover-up.   This ballistic missile story should not just go away without an explanation but it might if no reporters ask questions about it.

        Fathertime![/list]
        I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

        Offline GQBlues

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        Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
        « Reply #416 on: July 31, 2014, 09:27:21 AM »
        ...A couple other media sites are picking up the fact that nobody is covering the firing of Ballistic missiles by the Ukraine military.  Kerry and Obama, have been utterly silent on the subject.  To me, the bigger story is the fact that it is trying to be covered up....

        Of course it will be. It's counter to the narrative. Such is life, and always had been. Even from the State Department press briefings yesterday and the day before when this was brought up, reporters are as aware of this as our government do, but suppression of it prevails. Even ABCNews' correspondent Kirit Radia's confirmation of this information is suppressed by its news channel.

        Look at the current Israel/Gaza genocide. Over 1,000 innocent Palestinians dead and the US sends more ammunition into Israel. Just as they are doing in our new puppet regime in Kiev. Naval ships in the black sea, units in the Baltic states, B2 stealth bombers delivered and parked in Germany, etc...and we blame Russia for amassing troops and weaponry along their border.


        Just as they suppressed the air attack that killed innocent bystanders in Luhansk despite the OSCE confirming it was carried out by the Ukrainian government. Remember that decapitated lady laying beside the building? You will be pressed to find that video that doesn't carry the *RT* symbol these days. Remember how that was blamed on the rebels almost immediately and Kiev providing a whole lot of *intel* to prove it was RPGs?




        Here's a more lengthy report of that CNN coverage:






        It's pretty silly timing really since in his stupid attempt to further demonize Russia, Obama/Kerry decided to publically call Putin out for supposedly violating the medium range ballistic test firing treaty (from last year) only to be confronted with this event.
        There are currently 3 Russian delegates in Kiev that are to hand deliver a) intelligence regarding MH17 amongst other things; b) have an inspection team at the crash site.


        « Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 10:20:34 AM by GQBlues »
        Quote from: msmob
        1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
        2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
        3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

        Offline Muzh

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        Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
        « Reply #417 on: July 31, 2014, 09:48:22 AM »

        Obama does seem to be polar opposite to the Bush Jr's and McCains of the world.  But I still don't think that it's the point of what the USA wants; other than what Ukraine wants.  It is Ukraine who wanted a trade agreement with the EU and apparently closer ties to the US. Contrary to the narrative of some here the USA has simply not interfered in Ukrainian affairs in any large measure.

        It's the choice of Ukrainians whether they want to have a closer relationship with the West; but Russia seems to think that Ukraine is still their subservient property.




        The USA HAS interfered in Ukrainian affairs. But not in the way some here have been yammering about.


        The US has sent millions of dollars in aid to Ukraine. A small drop compared to the Russian "aid" which suddenly they want to collect. The USA is the only superpower and like it or not it will meddle in any country they deem ready to meddle. That's the nature of the beast. There are too many hawks in the US government that are funded by massive corporations looking to squeeze the last drop of blood out of the little people. Maybe you have heard of them as "people" thanks to the recent Supreme Court Ruling. These "people" wanted to "explore" the Black Sea for oil and promised Ukraine pennies to the dollar in profits and whatever profits were going to end in Goldilocks Swiss bank account. Again, that's the nature of the beast.


        But yes, the USA is meddling in Ukraine as we speak. I know of many Americans that are pissed off at the USA for NOT meddling enough.
        To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

        Offline Muzh

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        Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
        « Reply #418 on: July 31, 2014, 09:56:32 AM »
        We must travel in different circles.   :)   Even my mother gets most of her news online, on her Ipad.


        Please, do not deviate from his reality.  ;)
        To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

        Offline AC

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        Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
        « Reply #419 on: July 31, 2014, 11:28:21 AM »

        http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-meets-oleh-tyahnybok-in-ukraine-2013-12


        John McCain Went To Ukraine And Stood On Stage With A Man Accused Of Being An Anti-Semitic Neo-Nazi
        DEC. 16, 2013, 3:23 PM
        U.S. Senator John McCain, right, meets Ukrainian opposition leaders Arseniy Yatsenyuk, left, and Oleh Tyahnybok in Kiev, Ukraine, Saturday, Dec. 14, 2013.


        This has got to be one of the silliest and clumsiest attempts at pro-Russian propaganda yet.  Who cares who McCain stood next to?  Whether he did it accidentally or whether he really is senile; it makes no difference. 

           a)  McCain does not represent official US foreign policy towards Ukraine.

           b)  Who a politician makes the mistake of standing next to is completely irrelevant.  President Ronald Reagan once made the mistake of
                standing too close to an attempted Murderer, who shot him  Should we now deduce that Ronald Reagan was also an attempted Murderer,
                because he stood or walked too close to a bad man? 

                 :cluebat:
        « Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 11:33:23 AM by AC »

        Offline Manny

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        Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
        « Reply #420 on: July 31, 2014, 11:32:35 AM »
        I know of many Americans that are pissed off at the USA for NOT meddling enough.


        I don't believe you. Most Americans outside of this site couldn't find Ukraine on a map.

        Offline fathertime

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        Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
        « Reply #421 on: July 31, 2014, 01:21:59 PM »



        The USA HAS interfered in Ukrainian affairs. But not in the way some here have been yammering about.


         The USA is the only superpower and like it or not it will meddle in any country they deem ready to meddle. That's the nature of the beast. 
        But yes, the USA is meddling in Ukraine as we speak.


        Obviously the 'nature of the beast' is changing....Much of the world is turning on us....Just today 3 South American countries have disputes with us or our allies. 


        We shouldn't have interfered at all in that area.  We (the American people) don't actually know the extent of our interference or money spent...we would have to trust our govt. to know...and very few of us do, anymore. 





        The USA HAS interfered in Ukrainian affairs. But not in the way some here have been yammering about.


          Again, that's the nature of the beast.


         
        Another 'nature of the beast' is that if you get involved and have you get called, you have to back it up..you have to 'fight'.  Does it seem to you that the American people are interested in fighting Russia over parts of Ukraine?  Russia will likely put us in that position...so then what? Sanctions? We leave?  Ukrainians will be the ones that pay dearly with their lives. 


        Fathertime!   
        I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

        Offline fathertime

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        Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
        « Reply #422 on: July 31, 2014, 01:37:12 PM »
        [size=78%]Here's a more lengthy report of that CNN coverage:[/size]







        It's pretty silly timing really since in his stupid attempt to further demonize Russia, Obama/Kerry decided to publically call Putin out for supposedly violating the medium range ballistic test firing treaty (from last year) only to be confronted with this event.
        There are currently 3 Russian delegates in Kiev that are to hand deliver a) intelligence regarding MH17 amongst other things; b) have an inspection team at the crash site.




        Most people that see this CNN report would conclude that the Ballistic missiles were fired.  So once again, the news has completely stopped on this issue..FOR THE MOMENT....that isn't normal for a story this big...The thing that our govt. is relying on is if they don't comment on it, and the report is not seen by very many, the people will never know. Others don't care if they are manipulated because they are vested in the US narrative.    This going to be quite an indictment on our media if this is how it winds up going down. 


        Fathertime!   
        I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

        Online krimster2

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        100% PROOF AMERICA PAID UKRAINIANS TO PROTEST IN MAIDAN!!!!
        « Reply #423 on: July 31, 2014, 02:53:45 PM »
        Here is 100 % irrefutable photographic evidence that America was paying Ukrainians to join the Maidan revolution
        The woman to the right is Victoria Nuland, US ambassador to Ukraine



        Next, Russia Today “RT” has evidence that supports the hypothesis that the “Black Death” or Bubonic Plague in Europe (1346-1353) was actually an American biological warfare weapon

        Offline Gator

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        Re: Putin is Ruining Russia
        « Reply #424 on: July 31, 2014, 03:55:52 PM »

        Look at the current Israel/Gaza genocide. Over 1,000 innocent Palestinians dead and the US sends more ammunition into Israel.


        My, you do like to sensationalize.  First, the only people preaching genocide are the Hamas.   Second, combat in a congested urban environment results in both sides killing civilians.  The killing of 1000 Palestinian civilians is dreadful, yet the number seems small when considering the dense population, the ordnance, the tactic of the Hamas to position itself where civilian deaths will occur, etc. Compare that with the number of Syrian civilians.   How many Soviet civilians died fighting the Nazis?   



        Quote
        Just as they suppressed the air attack that killed innocent bystanders in Luhansk despite the OSCE confirming it was carried out by the Ukrainian government. Remember that decapitated lady laying beside the building? You will be pressed to find that video that doesn't carry the *RT* symbol these days. Remember how that was blamed on the rebels almost immediately and Kiev providing a whole lot of *intel* to prove it was RPGs?

        First, the Ukrainians  were attacking rebels embedded in an urban environment (see above).  Second, the film centered on one injured woman and she was not decapitated; she was in shock talking to the cameraman.  Third, I don't recall any reputable news agency blaming it on the rebels.  A couple of people here speculated that it was RPGs.   Do you recall your saying it was not RPGs because there were no RPG entrails?   ;)   Fourth, RT owns the tape.   


        Quote
        Here's a more lengthy report of that CNN coverage:


        CNN was using the same White House source that previously had provided evidence of 1)  the SAM missile taking out MK 17 being fired from a rebel stronghold and 2) Russian heavy weapons being fired from inside Russia at Ukrainian military positions inside Ukraine.  Surely you are not one of those people who would selectively choose evidence. 


        Finally, I am amazed by how much you enjoy being the advocate for some bad people.  I recall how you defended the Tsarnaev brothers (Boston marathon bombing).  A devil's advocate serves its purposes in a deliberation, yet it seems to me you are repeatedly going too far. 

         

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