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Author Topic: Trench's Questions and Philosophies  (Read 459300 times)

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Offline Davo

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #250 on: August 05, 2017, 08:07:53 PM »
Actually, we have been officially divorced for 3 years. Its just been a lengthy court battle to sort out our children's issues  and the final settlement of our property and assets.... During this time I've dated 4 women locally

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #251 on: August 06, 2017, 01:19:27 PM »

Over the following 6 months we chatted daily sometimes up to 12 hours a day, as she was able to message during work. We talked about everything and anything, from our dreams and aspirations, to the chances of life on other planets and every other topic in between. There was never one moment where we were lost for something to say. A conversation would seamlessly merge into many directions, far from our original thoughts.  We shared our lives through many hundreds of pictures, videos and thousands of messages.  We shared our daily activities from simple shopping trips, her amazing cooking, to special moments like birthdays,  family weddings and family  outings.

Many of you can probably point out many mistakes in my thought process, I guess I'll find out soon :)

Welcome to the forum, I wish you the best

I spent too many months developing something with a girl from
Georgia. When I got there we didn't have mutual chemistry even
though both of us really wanted it to happen. I spent all that time
and it didn't work out. That's one of the reasons that I recommend
getting on a plane, that way you don't waste time with a girl that
you don't have mutual chemistry.

The second reason is that FSUW are very pragmatic. I know a girl
from Luckylovers who lived in one of the Stans, tall, pretty and
smart. There was a guy who was handsome, smart and liked
the girl a lot but didn't pull the trigger.

Then a relatively homely guy (and a dork) from the other forum,
got on a plane and met the girl. Who do you think she married?
It was the homely dork because he got his butt on a plane.

This is my story
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.0

Here is if you want to skip ahead to going to Georgia
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.450
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 04:26:08 PM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline BdHvA

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #252 on: August 06, 2017, 04:02:47 PM »
Davo,

2^bill, Knows me - and I will repeat his comments in another way - have a passport - book a ticket - meet said female - it may or not work out.

Figure out why (do not be crestfallen if it is chemistry or her fault) try again only after you understand the mistakes made.

vA
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #253 on: August 06, 2017, 04:25:17 PM »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #254 on: August 06, 2017, 04:26:46 PM »
Why??????  As I wrote above, you complain about her EVERY DAY, and keep on about the things she has done which you don't like.  What on earth is wrong with you?

This doesn't make any sense at all!  First you say you need to replenish your money, etc.  Then, you don't want to waste any effort writing messages or talking on Skype, all of which takes some precious time, but is FREE.  Instead, you want to fly off to another country and jump feet first into a relationship with someone about whom you don't have the slightest clue because you've picked her up in the street or at a café, and who doesn't even speak your language as their native tongue (leading to endless misunderstandings which, with your mindset, will be totally misconstrued).

Does that sound about right?

That's rubbish.  It's your fault for continuing this ridiculous excuse for a "relationship."

To everyone else who's looking at this - I'm guessing that Trenchcoat has put me on "Ignore."  There's no other possible reason for not responding to what I've written, when everyone else is getting answered.  :sad:

Not ignore Kiwi, I'm just a man in demand what can I say ;D

I mean I were messaging a lot with present girl, now not so. With other girls no I'm not going to fall into the trap of getting in touch with another random girl on the internet, wasting hours/weeks/months in messaging just to get there and find out - chemistry is not there, she's a Holiday whore, Shopping scammer, Immigration scammer or other type of scammer, or some other weirdness etc. Yes I'm not surprised the search can take years at that rate, lol. This time I'm planning to be out there a fair while next year. I want to meet girls as they are not have a facade shown to me by them covering their real life at home. Don't think for one moment because she tells you X and X about her life over the internet it is true - sometimes it might be. I want to work with knowing I am dealing with reality, that way there isn't anything for me to get paranoid over ;) and I think better relationship prospects all round. What's the point of getting with a girl and she's told me this or that but despite being intimate with her I don't really know anything for certain, not much I think.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #255 on: August 06, 2017, 04:53:59 PM »
Hello all.....
Over the last 8 months I've followed this forum, read a majority of starting out, experienced and married. I feel like I know most of the regular members here. 

I've taken it all on board, the pit falls, the red flags, members despair their successes . I've read most of your advice Trench and  I've cheered for you , felt your pain and also shook my head in disbelief, please don't take offence... 

...I'm planning a holiday to visit her in her home town and it will be anther 3 months until this occurs. The total time we will have corresponded will be 11 months. I might be naive and this may not be the norm of  "get on a plane as soon as you can"  but I'm  glad I didn't follow that advice, this feels for me the right way to progress.

Trench from a complete novice  ( myself ) to someone who has much more experience, the lessons I've learn are this and bare in mind I've only conversed with one amazing woman .....

 Choose someone your own age, you will have much more in common and will be in the same stage in life ( no offence to the guys who have younger wives ).

Don't rush things, I made that mistake in my first  marriage, she was slim and attractive, but we didn't suit each other, we didn't take the time to really know each other, before making a commitment.

There are women out there that don't exhibit any red flags, don't settle for less. Your only concern will be trying to fathom, why the seeming perfect woman is interested in me.

When I meet this woman, as I do locally, I will pay for the regular things a man does, when he's dating, but a genuine woman will never ask for you to spend money on her, she will find happiness in  your company and not material things, from this happiness you won't mind giving gifts to show how much you care for her.   

Lastly, don't over analyze her behaviour or the relationship, you know in your heart when it feels right.

Many of you can probably point out many mistakes in my thought process, I guess I'll find out soon :)

Ok Davo, I cut out the boring stuff in your post ;D

Well the girl I sort of with she rejected stuff being sent to her (a possible Red Flag, I think more so now) instead she waited until we were together to pester me into buying this or that. I did so as I thought we had a real relationship there. We both agreed that we were serious and were intimate together.

Corresponding a lot is not a problem, most try to condense it down to a few months. I probably didn't Skype enough but when the girl does not speak good English and she gets tired quickly of trying then it tends to be that way. As 2tallbill points out though, getting on well on Skype and meeting in person are two different things, there may well be chemistry there you'll only find out for definite when there. That is the bitch of doing visit one, you invest so much time, money, effort but most of all emotional energy in one girl that if it doesn't work out its feels so bad. Some can perhaps walk away from a situation easier than others. I know 2tallbill states he set up vo's then if nothing there quickly moved to sourcing other women of the dating sites. Myself I would find this difficult unless the girl was a real bad one or just quit the date anyway. I would personally rather just go out there with an empty hand next time for a fair old time and source women of the dating sites once there.

I can tell Davo you are already set up to go out there and meet her and while she sounds good be careful. My girl came across as warm, caring, affectionate, genuine, sincere but many can hide bad intentions and self serving attitudes. You are no doubt more people skilled than I am but its so easy to be taken in. I would suggest before committing to any relationship decision once with her probe her to find out if she seems particularly after/strongly about anything. She might just be after obtaining immigration or what ever its not always money. A smart girl in Ukraine/FSU knows she can earn far more in US, UK, Australia, etc than she ever could in Ukraine or Russia, etc. Its the dumb girl that will go after a few shopping items, holiday whoring, lol, which are only ever short term gains. Good Luck!
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #256 on: August 06, 2017, 06:31:09 PM »
Corresponding a lot is not a problem, most try to condense it down to a few months. I probably didn't Skype enough but when the girl does not speak good English and she gets tired quickly of trying then it tends to be that way.

How many times have you been told that, if a FSUW is "into you," you will know it?  If she can't be bothered improving her English enough to hold conversations on Skype then she obviously doesn't care anywhere nearly as much as you thought.

As 2tallbill points out though, getting on well on Skype and meeting in person are two different things, there may well be chemistry there you'll only find out for definite when there.

True - but if she couldn't be bothered making the effort on Skype, why on earth waste your time going to meet her in person?

That is the bitch of doing visit one, you invest so much time, money, effort but most of all emotional energy in one girl that if it doesn't work out its feels so bad. Some can perhaps walk away from a situation easier than others... Myself I would find this difficult unless the girl was a real bad one or just quit the date anyway.

That's become painfully obvious - and yet there are so many negative things you've posted about her that it's clear to everyone else on this forum that (for you, at least) she IS "a real bad one."  :cluebat:

As for the rest of your post - fuggedaboutit!

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #257 on: August 06, 2017, 06:41:05 PM »
Well the girl I sort of with she rejected stuff being sent to her (a possible Red Flag, I think more so now) instead she waited until we were together to pester me into buying this or that. I did so as I thought we had a real relationship there. We both agreed that we were serious and were intimate together.

That's not a red flag.  Even the spending spree isn't if you agreed to it.

Note what I posted above.  I don't care what jone posted, Kherson is a backward dump with few jobs.  Yes, it's a "pretty" town, most towns in Ukraine are.  By "dump", I mean no prospects for a normal life.  She doesn't want people to know she has goods from abroad, it will cause jealousy and issues for her.

This obsession with "red flags" is unhealthy.  What you should be seeking is someone who wants the same lifestyle you do.  That is what HDL was referring to when he said he skyped with his lady a lot before they met in person.  He knew what her goals in life were, and how they would align with his.  That is why you skype.   Skype should be used as a screen to discard women who don't have the same goals in life that you do.

Personally, I think your obsession with being the "boss" means you are doomed in most any relationship.  Women want a man with testosterone, but most don't want to be ruled by a man.

Quote
I can tell Davo you are already set up to go out there and meet her and while she sounds good be careful. My girl came across as warm, caring, affectionate, genuine, sincere but many can hide bad intentions and self serving attitudes. You are no doubt more people skilled than I am but its so easy to be taken in. I would suggest before committing to any relationship decision once with her probe her to find out if she seems particularly after/strongly about anything. She might just be after obtaining immigration or what ever its not always money. A smart girl in Ukraine/FSU knows she can earn far more in US, UK, Australia, etc than she ever could in Ukraine or Russia, etc. Its the dumb girl that will go after a few shopping items, holiday whoring, lol, which are only ever short term gains. Good Luck!

Once again with the scammers.

First, the standard of living in Russia is not particularly bad.  There are at least two former posters here who, after their divorces, returned to Russia.  Leaving your family, your language, and often, a good job, for a country where you will always be a foreigner is not nothing. Ukraine is different because of economic and political difficulties currently. 

The shopping trip is just someone from poverty seeing things she could never afford, and being with someone for whom, she assumes, these expenses mean little. 

You think you were taken advantage of. You weren't.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #258 on: August 06, 2017, 06:45:31 PM »
How many times have you been told that, if a FSUW is "into you," you will know it?  If she can't be bothered improving her English enough to hold conversations on Skype then she obviously doesn't care anywhere nearly as much as you thought.


If he's into her, why isn't he learning her language enough to converse with her?  Doesn't that go both ways?

Quote
That's become painfully obvious - and yet there are so many negative things you've posted about her that it's clear to everyone else on this forum that (for you, at least) she IS "a real bad one."


I disagree with this, and with the sentiment in general.  She may not be what most men want in a wife, but that doesn't mean she is a "bad" one.  It just means her goals don't align with what some, perhaps most, here want in a wife.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 06:48:07 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #259 on: August 06, 2017, 07:13:41 PM »
If he's into her, why isn't he learning her language enough to converse with her?  Doesn't that go both ways?

Although I speak a little bit of Russian, I've changed my mind on this over the years, to the extent that I now agree pretty much with ML (and others) who point out that, if a woman from the FSU moves to a country where another language predominates, she needs to learn that language (whether it be English, French [Patagonie] or Norwegian [The Natural and Northkape]).  If this girl was into Trenchcoat as much as he hoped, then she should have been happy to make the effort.

That's not to say that Trenchcoat shouldn't be learning at least some Ukrainian - as he still has dreams of moving there next year, "some" is an absolute minimum.

I disagree with this, and with the sentiment in general.  She may not be what most men want in a wife, but that doesn't mean she is a "bad" one.  It just means her goals don't align with what some, perhaps most, here want in a wife.

You're missing my point.  From what Trenchcoat has described, she is a "bad one" FOR HIM.  She may well be a wonderful person in reality, but his description is of a typically self-centred girl in her early 20s, who is nowhere near ready to settle down with Trenchcoat in the lifestyle he proposes.  That's why I have continually posted that he should dump her and look for someone else who is better-suited.  I honestly can't see her being too broken-hearted!

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #260 on: August 06, 2017, 07:20:08 PM »
Given that he may not be serious about her, why should she learn English?  Perhaps she'll end up with a Swede, or a German, or an Italian.

People in Kherson speak Russian, not Ukrainian.

Fair enough on the comment, but I don't think Trench is going to find what he has professed he is looking for in Ukraine.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline wallm

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #261 on: August 06, 2017, 07:47:07 PM »
Trench, you still obsessing over this girl?  :cluebat:

Kherson is a dump like Zaporozhye. Didn't see chicken roaming the town. I liked Lviv the best in Ukraine. Didn't see obstacle course of pot holes. And the architecture is wonderful.

Offline BillyB

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #262 on: August 06, 2017, 08:02:45 PM »
If he's into her, why isn't he learning her language enough to converse with her?  Doesn't that go both ways?


I'm with Kiwi on this one but if Trench was into his woman, he'd trust her. She's probably wondering if he is into her as he is wondering if she is into him.

I liked Lviv the best in Ukraine. Didn't see obstacle course of pot holes. And the architecture is wonderful.


Cities and towns in West Ukraine tried their best to resist Soviet architecture. That's why it's more beautiful over there.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #263 on: August 06, 2017, 09:54:49 PM »
Trench, you still obsessing over this girl?  :cluebat:

Kherson is a dump like Zaporozhye. Didn't see chicken roaming the town. I liked Lviv the best in Ukraine. Didn't see obstacle course of pot holes. And the architecture is wonderful.

'Ri-ight'..so we should choose our partners based on the beauty of the city ?  ;)

We've got friends from Kherson - Mum lives in Sochi - her grown son lives in Sochi and he is divorced and the ex-wife is still Kherson and the - now - just 18 year old daughter and her Grandma go back and forth ( via ) Crimea!

They are lovely people - the salt of the earth.


I've never been to Kherson - but chatted to a lass from there - four years ago - before meeting SC.... Things were not good then - she was 'an accountant' and when the war kicked off - we stayed in touch for another two years. She certainly wasn't the type of woman that would jump at the chance to leave her city - she  had a very jaded 
view of dating foreign men. Not the sort that needed to be 'rescued'

 Just an example - she may have a different attitude, now.. Her daughter will be of Uni age.



 


Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #264 on: August 06, 2017, 10:06:32 PM »
I didn't post that there were chickens in the town.  But if you wander just outside of town, you will see them.

The point is not that a woman is desperate to leave her hometown, it is a) she may want to see more of the world; and b) in these small cities, everyone knows everyone else's business. 

Things are much worse there now, moby.  I sense a real undercurrent of malaise in Ukraine now, though I was only there a short time this year.  My husband sensed it as well, and he was there longer.  It is a potentially explosive situation, mostly created by the current government.

Western Ukrainian cities are not more beautiful than those in Central Ukraine, but they were less destroyed by war.  Khreshchatyk (Kyiv's main street) was beautiful before WWII, when the fleeing communists blew it up.  Most of Kyiv's architecture was destroyed by the Bolsheviks.  I have a book on the lost architecture of Kyiv, which has a huge number of churches.  My husband remembers going to school and passing a church every morning.  One day, when he walked home from school, the church was gone.  Not even a brick remained. Vinnitsya, which is part of Western Ukraine, was bombed by the Germans.  The train station in Ternopil was destroyed during the war.  Most of the churches in Eastern/Central Ukraine were destroyed by the communists.  Same in Western Ukraine.  I've always thought Kyiv is the most beautiful city in Ukraine, although I'm not crazy about its post Soviet architectural additions.  The Hyatt is a crime against humanity.  Nevertheless, I still prefer Kyiv to L'viv.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 10:19:59 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline BillyB

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #265 on: August 06, 2017, 11:22:46 PM »
Western Ukrainian cities are not more beautiful than those in Central Ukraine, but they were less destroyed by war. 


A lot of Soviet architecture went up after the war. Those ugly cut and paste block apartments are all over the FSU but are rarely seen in Western Ukraine. There is a clear difference in theme of buildings between Western Ukraine and other parts of the FSU. Lviv even has a cemetery so beautiful, there are numerous tour buses parked outside at any given time and tour guides, speaking many different languages, guiding groups through the cemetery.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #266 on: August 06, 2017, 11:51:11 PM »

Things are much worse there now, moby.  I sense a real undercurrent of malaise in Ukraine now, though I was only there a short time this year.  My husband sensed it as well, and he was there longer.  It is a potentially explosive situation, mostly created by the current government.

Thanks, for the update, Boethius ...  My most recent' trips' to Ukraine have been fleeting - the SLOW train to Moscow -
 from 'Abkhazia' stops at the border with Lugansk Oblast ( still under Kyiv control)  folks get on the train to sell produce and get off at the next stop - the train going 10km inside Ukraine.


Our friends from Kherson have varying views of the situation - the son - in his early 40's thinks "only Russia can help" - he doesn't go back .... his Ma is more circumspect




Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #267 on: August 07, 2017, 04:57:09 AM »
That's not a red flag.  Even the spending spree isn't if you agreed to it.

Note what I posted above.  I don't care what jone posted, Kherson is a backward dump with few jobs.  Yes, it's a "pretty" town, most towns in Ukraine are.  By "dump", I mean no prospects for a normal life.  She doesn't want people to know she has goods from abroad, it will cause jealousy and issues for her.

This obsession with "red flags" is unhealthy.  What you should be seeking is someone who wants the same lifestyle you do.  That is what HDL was referring to when he said he skyped with his lady a lot before they met in person.  He knew what her goals in life were, and how they would align with his.  That is why you skype.   Skype should be used as a screen to discard women who don't have the same goals in life that you do.

Personally, I think your obsession with being the "boss" means you are doomed in most any relationship.  Women want a man with testosterone, but most don't want to be ruled by a man.

Once again with the scammers.

First, the standard of living in Russia is not particularly bad.  There are at least two former posters here who, after their divorces, returned to Russia.  Leaving your family, your language, and often, a good job, for a country where you will always be a foreigner is not nothing. Ukraine is different because of economic and political difficulties currently. 

The shopping trip is just someone from poverty seeing things she could never afford, and being with someone for whom, she assumes, these expenses mean little. 

You think you were taken advantage of. You weren't.

This is where you and 2tallbill differ, he is big on 'driving the bus' and states it is bad the moment you are not. I see it as bad if you are with a scammer she will take you for all its worth. I'm not saying my girl was a scammer as such. It seems to me her obsession with gaining a UK visa seems that that is what she is after rather than me. Boethius I think your depiction of Kherson will be accurate enough, I went to Nikolaev last year and it will be no doubt somewhat similar, a nice enough place to walk around albeit the concrete tenement blocks but few opportunities. If a girl want to be with me and better opportunities fine, if its just the opportunities then there is a problem. I know you can't control someone but I'm not having a girl use me as a mule then move on as soon as she is here - I cannot properly assess her loyalty after two one week holidays together. I need far more time yet she doesn't want to see me anywhere else than UK. I mean its not doubt possible to put up with a guy for a week or two to get what you want, its harder over the course of several weeks together, cracks will often begin to show.

I too wondered about the stuff she bought in Cyprus, I mean a fair amount of that stuff was brand stuff and if she walked around in as much of it as I bought her then she could make herself a target, jealousy as you say and I'm guessing from what you say people soon turn upon you there. I don't know what she does with it, whether she sells it or just tries it on in her bedroom but too much of a risk anywhere else, lol. Seems almost pointless buying it but if she likes to do the girly thing in her bedroom then maybe that's it.

Yes I agreed that she could buy her one or two items but she was unstoppable. No doubt a lot of girls think everyone in the west are rich and the streets are paved with gold, this is not true. If you stand around in a shop buying stuff all day then money soon goes particularly when buying brand items. That is a big problem here, the girl has no idea of how much stuff is worth and reality if it were her own money she would be more careful, but of course her own money isn't really hers as it goes on rent. The way I would see to resolve this would be for her to have a part time job in UK and she uses that for clothes shopping money, that way she get to know what money is worth and what it takes to earn it. 

Yes some girls go for way more pricey things like expensive jewellery, it was more her attitude than anything else. I've mentioned the food she ordered then didn't eat already but there was also suntanning/aftersun products she bought except it wasn't the decent standard Ambre Solaire stuff it was staff that came to about £100 for a few tubes/bottle of suntanning lotion/aftersun, crazy. I mean it was starting to take the pee a bit. Maybe she wanted to act it up as a spoilt LA teen but it was ruining our relationship. I wanted to go there for a nice holiday enjoying Cyprus and each others company not go there and see my wallet take a pounding from over-excessive purchases.

Anyway, unless something happens on the visiting front I can't see this relationship going any further to tackle the shopping problem. I mean her not wanting me to visit Kherson without giving me an adequate explanation isn't on, I've stated the problems with her visiting the UK. Yet on Kherson all I get is she won't meet with me and that's it. What am I supposed to do with that?
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #268 on: August 07, 2017, 04:58:58 AM »
Given that he may not be serious about her, why should she learn English?  Perhaps she'll end up with a Swede, or a German, or an Italian.

English is very much a lingua franca amongst at least the younger generation in Western Europe.  Wherever you go, you will find plenty who speak English, and speak it well.  It's a lot different now from when I visited in 1987, when French people (for example) were actively discouraged from speaking English, and caused a lot of tourists to swear that they would never visit such a rude country again.  :D  Admittedly that attitude was far more prevalent in Paris than in the provinces, but it was a complete contrast to what I found in Germany and Scandinavia.

No matter where she ends up, English will be useful to her to some extent.  She can worry about another language if and when she gets swept off her feet by Romeo, Jean-Claude or Jurgen!

People in Kherson speak Russian, not Ukrainian.

Noted, but I would expect that, even there, more Ukrainian is spoken than before the invasion.

...but I don't think Trench is going to find what he has professed he is looking for in Ukraine.

No kidding!  I think that you would have the ALMOST unanimous support of the entire membership on that one.

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #269 on: August 07, 2017, 05:13:12 AM »
How many times have you been told that, if a FSUW is "into you," you will know it?  If she can't be bothered improving her English enough to hold conversations on Skype then she obviously doesn't care anywhere nearly as much as you thought.

True - but if she couldn't be bothered making the effort on Skype, why on earth waste your time going to meet her in person?

That's become painfully obvious - and yet there are so many negative things you've posted about her that it's clear to everyone else on this forum that (for you, at least) she IS "a real bad one."  :cluebat:

As for the rest of your post - fuggedaboutit!

See this is the reason I don't reply to you often Kiwi, you don't understand the problem. She is trying to learn English - yes she learnt some in School but I learnt French, was I much good, no, same goes for Ukrainians/Russians. Some are better than others, some need more help, particularly if its been a few years since she last spoke it. That I can understand and of course she is going to get tired speaking it and trying to understand me if she's a bit rusty on it, and of course tired after the long hours she apparently works. Yes a fluent speaker is preferable but I also need to look at the girl and if we seem to get on/chemistry together. So no I obviously can't have real lengthy conversations with her particularly as she uses camera phone and connectivity is not good. We are unassumingly talking of real life situation here, normal people that have daily routines and can't sit around Skyping ever hour under the sun, some of us have to work you know ;D

Funny, I said the same thing about learning English Language to her, that its the most common language, particularly in Europe so best one for her to learn. A bit like why I chose to try and learn Russian instead of Ukrainian as its more widely used in FSU so avoid me having to learn a different language each time if I chose to look in different FSU countries. Not ideal but best all round solution. She said the same as Boethius, on why learning English when she might meet someone of a different country/language, but end of the day few people are linguistically gifted enough to be able to learn them all/pick up any language quickly.

My methodology was wrong, I should have insisted on visiting her in her home city to start with though she probably would have rejected that and seeing me, lol. That is why I'm going to a city in FSU to date in future. The negative stuff I've posted about her is because of issues in the relationship, there are positives as well but her obstruction to me taking things further on my terms are really putting a block on this relationship that I wished wasn't there.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Jumper

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #270 on: August 07, 2017, 07:06:26 AM »
The part of the approach that causes the most issues is you're fear of being used,compounded by chasing women at a stage in life most likely to use you.She, and most that age have not become who they will be in 5 or ten years. They live for today, and have not settled down or really thought of the future that much.
As far as English :
1.a woman that's into you won't tire of trying to communicate.
2.English fluency ,even in kherson,  is a  boost in potential jobs and opportunities.

You need to look for a woman who is at your stage in life,that values what you value, whose priorities match your own.
It can happen with a twenty something,  but what are the odds?
You make finding a needle in the haystack, more akin to finding a grain of sugar on the surface of the moon .

The priorities on your search hamper everything. Good or bad method won't significantly matter  in comparison.

I married a much younger woman, so I'm throwing stones from a glass house,  but I do know the difficulty and odds in finding what you seek in that age group.
My wife was certainly ready to get married and start a family, that was her priority. Yes you can tell that with a great degree of confidence just nmby how and what someone talks about, what their interests are, how they are around their family and friends,  how they are around children etc.including *who* thy buy stuff for, who is in their thoughts.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 07:02:13 PM by Jumper »
.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #271 on: August 07, 2017, 11:15:35 AM »
A lot of Soviet architecture went up after the war. Those ugly cut and paste block apartments are all over the FSU but are rarely seen in Western Ukraine. There is a clear difference in theme of buildings between Western Ukraine and other parts of the FSU. Lviv even has a cemetery so beautiful, there are numerous tour buses parked outside at any given time and tour guides, speaking many different languages, guiding groups through the cemetery.

There is a whole city of those "ugly cut and paste apartment blocks" halfway between L'viv and Ivano Frankivsk.

L'viv has its share of Soviet architecture - the Polytechnical University, the Pioneer Palace (now renamed "Prohulinka"),  the Veterinary Academy main building, the bus station.  It also does have Soviet era apartment buildings.  I've been in Soviet built apartments in Ivano Frankivsk and Ternopil.  I've also been in Soviet built hotels in Ternopil, Vinnitsya, and Chernivtsi.

Baikove cemetery in Kyiv is as beautiful, I think more so, than L'viv's Lychakiv cemetery.  I've been to both.  I had a friend who spent an afternoon in Baikove cemetery, searching for the grave of Ivan Franko.  I disappointed her when I told her he's buried in L'viv.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 12:55:27 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #272 on: August 07, 2017, 11:31:55 AM »
This is where you and 2tallbill differ, he is big on 'driving the bus' and states it is bad the moment you are not.

I think he means going there with purpose.  He definitely does not mean your way or the highway.

Quote
I see it as bad if you are with a scammer she will take you for all its worth. I'm not saying my girl was a scammer as such. It seems to me her obsession with gaining a UK visa seems that that is what she is after rather than me.

Accept it as the reality.  It's the case with almost any FSUW who marries a WM.  It doesn't mean she won't love him or be a good wife.
Quote
I think your depiction of Kherson will be accurate enough, I went to Nikolaev last year and it will be no doubt somewhat similar, a nice enough place to walk around albeit the concrete tenement blocks but few opportunities. If a girl want to be with me and better opportunities fine, if its just the opportunities then there is a problem. I know you can't control someone but I'm not having a girl use me as a mule then move on as soon as she is here - I cannot properly assess her loyalty after two one week holidays together. I need far more time yet she doesn't want to see me anywhere else than UK. I mean its not doubt possible to put up with a guy for a week or two to get what you want, its harder over the course of several weeks together, cracks will often begin to show.
What makes you think you will be able to discern that in Kherson?  As I posted previously, I knew UM who married women who only wanted a propiska (stamp enabling them to live in Kyiv in Soviet times).  If they couldn't suss it out, despite being from the same culture, what chance do you have?

Quote
I too wondered about the stuff she bought in Cyprus, I mean a fair amount of that stuff was brand stuff and if she walked around in as much of it as I bought her then she could make herself a target, jealousy as you say and I'm guessing from what you say people soon turn upon you there. I don't know what she does with it, whether she sells it or just tries it on in her bedroom but too much of a risk anywhere else, lol. Seems almost pointless buying it but if she likes to do the girly thing in her bedroom then maybe that's it.

No, people likely will assume she bought knock offs at the market.
Quote
Yes I agreed that she could buy her one or two items but she was unstoppable. No doubt a lot of girls think everyone in the west are rich and the streets are paved with gold, this is not true. If you stand around in a shop buying stuff all day then money soon goes particularly when buying brand items. That is a big problem here, the girl has no idea of how much stuff is worth and reality if it were her own money she would be more careful, but of course her own money isn't really hers as it goes on rent. The way I would see to resolve this would be for her to have a part time job in UK and she uses that for clothes shopping money, that way she get to know what money is worth and what it takes to earn it. 

It's still your fault for acquiescing in buying her everything she wanted.

Quote
Yes some girls go for way more pricey things like expensive jewellery, it was more her attitude than anything else. I've mentioned the food she ordered then didn't eat already but there was also suntanning/aftersun products she bought except it wasn't the decent standard Ambre Solaire stuff it was staff that came to about £100 for a few tubes/bottle of suntanning lotion/aftersun, crazy. I mean it was starting to take the pee a bit. Maybe she wanted to act it up as a spoilt LA teen but it was ruining our relationship. I wanted to go there for a nice holiday enjoying Cyprus and each others company not go there and see my wallet take a pounding from over-excessive purchases.

I've explained the restaurant.  It is common there.  People there don't view restaurants as feedlots.  They go to restaurants for the experience, to try foods they would never be able to try otherwise.  Choosing the most expensive sunblock=typical "Soviet/post Soviet" mentality - the more expensive, the better it is.  She was acting completely within the standards of her society. 

Quote
Anyway, unless something happens on the visiting front I can't see this relationship going any further to tackle the shopping problem. I mean her not wanting me to visit Kherson without giving me an adequate explanation isn't on, I've stated the problems with her visiting the UK. Yet on Kherson all I get is she won't meet with me and that's it. What am I supposed to do with that?

You just don't get what everyone is telling you.  You are not going to change this behaviour.  She is not someone who is going to be a good wife.  Perhaps Jumper is correct, and she still needs to sort out who she is going to become, and is just not serious currently.  My view is we have set personalities pretty much from birth.  But in the end, unless you want to wait 5 to 10 years to determine if she will settle into being a decent wife, it doesn't matter. Unless you want to waste valuable time because you got laid.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 07:02:58 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #273 on: August 07, 2017, 11:44:03 AM »
English is very much a lingua franca amongst at least the younger generation in Western Europe.  Wherever you go, you will find plenty who speak English, and speak it well.  It's a lot different now from when I visited in 1987, when French people (for example) were actively discouraged from speaking English, and caused a lot of tourists to swear that they would never visit such a rude country again.  :D  Admittedly that attitude was far more prevalent in Paris than in the provinces, but it was a complete contrast to what I found in Germany and Scandinavia.

No matter where she ends up, English will be useful to her to some extent.  She can worry about another language if and when she gets swept off her feet by Romeo, Jean-Claude or Jurgen!

Noted, but I would expect that, even there, more Ukrainian is spoken than before the invasion.

No kidding!  I think that you would have the ALMOST unanimous support of the entire membership on that one.

Our son is working this summer in an EU country.  He doesn't speak the local language, went with zero knowledge and can now understand about half of what is said to him.  He is often in areas where no one speaks English.  When he bought his SIM card, no one spoke English.  When he goes to the local market, again, no one speaks English.  At his work, which is at a major university, his coworkers can speak English, but communicate in their language.

When we were in Paris 3 years ago, people spoke English at tourist sites, but in shops and local restaurants, they didn't. 

The girl may find English useful in very rudimentary encounters, but if she is going to function in Swedish/German/French/Italian society, she will have to learn the local language.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 12:44:54 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline BillyB

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #274 on: August 07, 2017, 01:20:25 PM »
There is a whole city of those "ugly cut and paste apartment blocks" halfway between L'viv and Ivano Frankivsk.

L'viv has its share of Soviet architecture - the Polytechnical University, the Pioneer Palace (now renamed "Prohulinka"),  the Veterinary Academy main building, the bus station.  It also does have Soviet era apartment buildings.  I've been in Soviet built apartments in Ivano Frankivsk and Ternopil.  I've also been in Soviet built hotels in Ternopil, Vinnitsya, and Chernivtsi.



Kiev has some beautiful buildings, even some amazing Soviet architecture but outside of what government built for themselves, they built crap for citizens. In West Ukraine, people remodeled some of those ugly buildings by taking the flat roof and adding a peak, painting them bright colors, and adding window frames that resemble those used hundreds of years ago. Pound for pound, Lviv did a better job beautifying their city compared to what Kiev has done. WallM and I are two guys that notice a clear difference between Lviv and other cities. Not as much money in Ivano Frankivsk and other smaller towns to keep up with Lviv but people in West Ukraine certainly don't like Soviet architecture and would get rid of it if they could afford it.

http://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-lviv-elections-model-of-future/27323230.html
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

 

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