"Why don't you just date an American woman?"

[Boethius]

In the USA a hunk who is an auto mechanic or a pizza delivery person will find lots of interest in the oppoisite sex.  A corporate executive who is a little nerdy will spend a lot of Saturday nights alone but probably will do well with FSU women.  FSU women value a secure man who treats them well and has good inner qualities.  AW are quite accepting of a handsome hunk who has little going for them and treats them like crap.  Most RW won't take a lot of crap from anyone.

You won't see too many college educated women dating the pizza delivery man.  Many won't even date a mechanic, though I don't know why.

I think college aged women will date "hunks" for fun and sex, as will some older women, but not for a relationship.  Unless the hunk has a brain/money.  I can tell you from observation, there are tons of young women who will sleep with the forty year old nerd, many within hours of meeting him, provided he has a wad of cash.

[Muzh]

Lily,

That obese woman in Vincenzo's photo is obviously a joke as it's overly exaggerated, BUT it's not too far from the truth.   In my experience, you do often times see fat girls with skinny guys in this country.  It's just, many times, they get upset with the skinny guy is as poor as shit. 

Fat girls, like skinny ones, want to be provided for, but can't compete with the hot girls.  So, they get angry and bitter when the rich men go for the hot girls.  But, the hot American girls tend, just like the fat ones, tend to have a ridiculously huge sense of entitlement.

It's hard to imagine the typical hot, American trophy wife doing a good job of raising children or being a good wife.  Her major concern would be to spend up her husband's money on shit.  Similarly, the really obese, girl wants this as well but her dumb-ass skinny boyfriend is uneducated and can't pay the bills with his minimum wage job.


Of course, that isn't all American girls and that isn't to say that American men don't have an undeserving sense of entitlement either.  People in this country do care more than just looks and material wealth, but I would say that we generally do have a very materialistic culture here.

My goodness man, where the hell do you hang out?

[Muzh]

Not only that but if there are more fat men than fat women, the competition for the slimmer ladies should be less. In theory. But let's be honest, it's not just about weight, it's generally more about guys with sexist tendencies, a huge sense of entitlement and, mostly, little mojo to show for it in their home country. All this is of course hidden behind the veil of language and cultural barriers when dating in the FSU... for a little while at least. 

Right on the nail.

[Muzh]

The funny thing is that when the newly arrived RW wives start wearing the customary 100-lawyer make-up, 4-inch hills paired with mini skirts and tight shirts in the US, their husbands tend to tell them to tone down to blend in. Otherwise they look like a pimp and a prostitute for the neighbors.
I have to say, I am very careful with what I wear to work, and always ask my husband if the new purchase for work is too tight/short/sexy. It's better to be underdressed than overdressed if you are to bwe taken seriously in professional circles here.

BONG!!!

We have another winner!!!

On both counts.

[Muzh]

  You live where in Washington state??
I live in Florida, they tell us the sun will give us skin cancer and damage our looks as well.  I've known several people here who have skin cancers. That's why farm women here in the south get leathery looking skin by age 50.
It's mostly when your skin is young and tender that you get sun damage.  If you are over 25 before getting exposed you will not have a problem.  That's why all the Southern Bells in "Gone With the Wind" carried parasols.

Bzzzzzzzzz.

Awww, wrong answer.

The reason older women in the south (and anywhere else) exhibit leathery skin is because of the smoking and hard liquor. (As in everything else, there are exceptions.)

Fact.

[erikmagenta]

Dating AW would be fine if that was my goal.  But I wish to get married and it's becoming a dying institution in the US.

Marriage is my goal so after a few years of trying to date in the US after my divorce with an AW, I decided to go to a place where women are looking to get married and aren't ashamed to be admitting that fact.  The FSU became one of those places for me because the FSUW do a much better job of marketing themselves than the AW do.  Try to compare profiles on a American dating website with those on a FSUW site.  See the difference?

It was enough to make me curious, at least.  Once I made a few trips, I came to the conclusion that dating is simply more enjoyable in the FSU than the US so I'll likely never go back to dating AW.

Understatement of the century.  If, and that is a gigantic if, an AW is anywhere near the hotness level which I seek, you hear 100 different reasons why she cannot go out with you until the 12th of never.  Russian Ukrainian women are more slender, more fashionable by 10,000 times, hotter and say why not?  Let's do it!!  It's just that easy.  It's a world economy, and soon that will include more and more men saying enough is enough.  Boring "feminist" American women who think they can wait until they are 40 years old and "fulfilled" before getting married are on the way out.  They will be dinasours!!

[BC]

Understatement of the century.  If, and that is a gigantic if, an AW is anywhere near the hotness level which I seek, you hear 100 different reasons why she cannot go out with you until the 12th of never.  Russian Ukrainian women are more slender, more fashionable by 10,000 times, hotter and say why not?  Let's do it!!  It's just that easy.  It's a world economy, and soon that will include more and more men saying enough is enough.  Boring "feminist" American women who think they can wait until they are 40 years old and "fulfilled" before getting married are on the way out.  They will be dinasours!!

yadda yadda.....

Once in the new environs, FSUW will adapt quite well...  Dont even expect her to remain the same as she was in FSU.  The accent might stick around for a bit but that's about it.  Don't expect more.

[erikmagenta]

yadda yadda.....

Once in the new environs, FSUW will adapt quite well...  Dont even expect her to remain the same as she was in FSU.  The accent might stick around for a bit but that's about it.  Don't expect more.

Whoever said that I intend to bring a woman to the West?  I intend to live in Russia or other country where men still are respected and have rights.  So yadda yadda to that....

[Chemist]

Whoever said that I intend to bring a woman to the West?  I intend to live in Russia or other country where men still are respected and have rights.  So yadda yadda to that....

Sorry Erik, but I have to ask since I don't know your background:

Are you fluent in Russian?  Have you lived there before or know somebody who lives there?  Can you get a job there or perhaps you're independently wealthy?

Living in the FSU is much different than visiting a week or two.  I've read about people who have moved there and nobody describes it as easy.

Men are expected to support and provide for their families and you won't be able to do this very well if you lived with a lady in Russia.  It would be best of she moved to the US to be with you.  You at least know this culture and how to take care of things, which she would be more comfortable with.

[IAmZon]

Men are expected to support and provide for their families and you won't be able to do this very well if you lived with a lady in Russia.  It would be best of she moved to the US to be with you.  You at least know this culture and how to take care of things, which she would be more comfortable with.

It is increasingly possible for men to work remotely with Internet / phone for extended periods of time.  Thus, geographic borders are less of a limitation.

[BC]

Whoever said that I intend to bring a woman to the West?  I intend to live in Russia or other country where men still are respected and have rights.  So yadda yadda to that....

Strange, I can't recall you ever indicating that your intent was to move to FSU.  Just doesn't add up.. why in the world talk about socials, agencies and such when the best way to find a woman that does not intend to emigrate is to do so while living there.  Sort of putting the cart before the horse or?

Oh, guess I forgot your brothel book research... yes, such could well be less expensive there but doubt a publishing house will give much of a book advance for this kind of research.  Might also be incompatible with the women you would date there.

I dunno... the whole secret book thing, now going to live in FSU.. sounds like vaporware to me, but surely we'll get another answer that somehow explains all these contradictions, raising even more questions than those answered..

[IAmZon]

vaporware

LOL

[Hammer2722]

I intend to live in Russia or other country where men still are respected and have rights.  So yadda yadda to that....

I think the more accurate statement would be: "I intend to live in Russia or other country where women have less rights and men rule!!!!" 

[IAmZon]

I think the more accurate statement would be: "I intend to live in Russia or other country where women have less rights and men rule!!!!"

Don't be so flippant about a cultural truth. 

 I lived in Colombia for a couple years. I was just in EE and Ukraine for 2 months.  My first weekend back to the good old USA, I went to a restaurant with my family, and approached the hostess / bartender / waitress with a drink order.  I got the look and response!   The USA is NOT neutral and balanced in this regard!  IT IS TRUE HERE - it is not make believe.

Living in EE; Colombia and elsewhere, the value of being a man is much higher.   IT IS TRUE THERE  - it is not make believe.

[Hammer2722]

Don't be so flippant about a cultural truth. 

 I lived in Colombia for a couple years. I was just in EE and Ukraine for 2 months.  My first weekend back to the good old USA, I went to a restaurant with my family, and approached the hostess / bartender / waitress with a drink order.  I got the look and response!   The USA is NOT neutral and balanced in this regard!  IT IS TRUE HERE - it is not make believe.

Living in EE; Colombia and elsewhere, the value of being a man is much higher.   IT IS TRUE THERE  - it is not make believe.

I'm not being so flippant as you so lightly put it. The fact is that women have less rights in FSU countries as well as South America. That is a fact! Just ask all the single mothers that can't get any support from the deadbeat dad's. Especially in FSU!

[Faux Pas]

Whoever said that I intend to bring a woman to the West?  I intend to live in Russia or other country where men still are respected and have rights.  So yadda yadda to that....

erik, the more you post the more you reveal. One doesn't get respected because they have a penis. There are a lot of penises in the world. If you want respect as a man, you have to be a man and earn it. It would appear you aren't receiving your idea of respect in your current environment and you are laying the blame for that on Western women. You are coming off as a serious misogynist. You are either damaged goods or you have a hellva lot to learn FWIW

[IAmZon]

I'm not being so flippant as you so lightly put it. The fact is that women have less rights in FSU countries as well as South America. That is a fact! Just ask all the single mothers that can't get any support from the deadbeat dad's. Especially in FSU!

Of course, I am not a supporter of men who shrink their moral / human obligations.

MORE TO THE POINT on this board, I think, is the core problem:  How do you take a woman who has a general "lower social value" relative to men, and then put that woman in an environment where her social value sky rockets relative to men generally (presumably her husband specifically)  Clearly this is a new and beneficial environment to the women.

Add to that these three points:
1) at a time in a when she is newly married
2) in a relationship where she has very likely settled below the norms of the destination country (league and age)
3) at a time where she is rediscovering her potential in life.
Not so advantageous to the man I think ... or, are we to believe?

BTW - I am not saying one environment is Right, or Better ... I am just noting the difference - and it is more severe than most of us want to acknowledge.

[Faux Pas]

Don't be so flippant about a cultural truth. 

 I lived in Colombia for a couple years. I was just in EE and Ukraine for 2 months.  My first weekend back to the good old USA, I went to a restaurant with my family, and approached the hostess / bartender / waitress with a drink order.  I got the look and response!   The USA is NOT neutral and balanced in this regard!  IT IS TRUE HERE - it is not make believe.

Living in EE; Colombia and elsewhere, the value of being a man is much higher.   IT IS TRUE THERE  - it is not make believe.

Bull kaka. You "value" as a man isn't any greater in EE, Columbia or anywhere else over the USA. The difference it would appear that you experience is the value of your wallet. Likely you are confusing your value as a man with your value as a customer

[IAmZon]

Bull kaka. You "value" as a man isn't any greater in EE, Columbia or anywhere else over the USA. The difference it would appear that you experience is the value of your wallet. Likely you are confusing your value as a man with your value as a customer

I have had this discussion / debate many, many times.  I have never lost to an open minded man ... and am very accurate with my words.  Unlike you ... "it would appear that you experience is the value of your wallet"

So you are telling me that the social values of gender the same in the USA, Colombia, EE, Ukraine, or Russia?   Hmmm.  Give me something concrete without name calling and I will respond, so we can see where this goes.  Otherwise, your silence is appreciated.

[Faux Pas]

I have had this discussion / debate many, many times.  I have never lost to an open minded man ... and am very accurate with my words.  Unlike you ... "it would appear that you experience is the value of your wallet"

With yourself no doubt? So anyone who doesn't agree with you is close-minded? You are already admitting your unworthiness in such a debate with your need to point out spelling, here on an internet forum. Please try not to be so anal retentive.

So you are telling me that the social values of gender the same in the USA, Colombia, EE, Ukraine, or Russia?   Hmmm.  Give me something concrete without name calling and I will respond, so we can see where this goes.  Otherwise, your silence is appreciated.

I'm not telling you anything and I do not post for your appreciations. If you desire my silence, maybe you should lobby for the ignore function.  The value of a "man" has nothing to do with the country he is in if indeed, he truly is a man. Being a man requires much more than having a penis and a wallet.  Don't confuse your idea of self worth as a man with that of your wallet. Your value as a man should be the same, no matter what country you find yourself in.  I am sure you have difficulty with the concept. I would expect nothing less from you

[IAmZon]

The value of a "man" has nothing to do with the country he is in if indeed, he truly is a man. Being a man requires much more than having a penis and a wallet.  Don't confuse your idea of self worth as a man with that of your wallet. Your value as a man should be the same, no matter what country you find yourself in.  I am sure you have difficulty with the concept. I would expect nothing less from you

Ahh!  I will overlook your penis wallet comments, and pretend you have a serious point.

You do not think the value of a man is different in the USA to Colombia, for example?!?!?   I think you are severely mistaken.  Maybe in the eyes of God. But, as a practical matter, a man has a MUCH different social value in Colombia than the USA. 

1, Security / Protection - this is the biggest factor.  While human beings have evolved for 10,000, it has been primarily the male gender that has protected the women and children.  In Colombia, that is still very much the case.  When your woman grabs your hand in Colombia, often times she feels more safe.  This NEVER happens in the USA.  This has a universal and absolute affect on the genders in the USA. It makes the man less responsible - less a man.

Do you think this is unjust, a fabrication.  I can assure you it is not!   When a woman, or man, or couple experience ANYTHING in the USA, one or both are capable of dialing 911 - and the gender based system runs to the rescue.    This has a universal and absolute affect on the genders in Colombia.  It makes the man more responsible - more a man.

2, Food / Shelter / Resources - this is the second biggest factor. In the USA, a woman does not need a man for physical needs In fact, current studies show men are less and less capable compared to women.   Look at college enrollment, for example.   If women do not need men, they often choose not to have them - and wear flat shoes, and become fat.   But, the fact that men increasingly are not the sole or capable breadwinners / and that women do not need a man has a deep affect on the valuation of men too.Then, there is the hypersensitivity feminist ... it is not OK for anybody to be sexy - except lesbians  (Hey has anyone notice the lesbian worship that is happening in the USA ?)== anyway, I would be curious if FP, or others would suggest these two points are flawed?

[ML]

  Hey has anyone noticed the lesbian worship that is happening in the USA ?

A couple of years back I went to a k.d. lang concert (my choice).
She is a great soulful singer and performer, regardless of sexual orientation.

And, man, did she get the worship treatment from many female members of the  audience.  They yelled out many sexual suggestions to her.  She just smiled and said: I would love to honey.

- - - -

Anyway, it is not just lesbian worship that is expanding; it extends to gay men also.

Anyone watch the recent Tony Awards?

[BC]

Ahh!  I will overlook your penis wallet comments, and pretend you have a serious point.

You do not think the value of a man is different in the USA to Colombia, for example?!?!?   I think you are severely mistaken.  Maybe in the eyes of God. But, as a practical matter, a man has a MUCH different social value in Colombia than the USA. 

1, Security / Protection - this is the biggest factor.  While human beings have evolved for 10,000, it has been primarily the male gender that has protected the women and children.  In Colombia, that is still very much the case.  When your woman grabs your hand in Colombia, often times she feels more safe.  This NEVER happens in the USA.  This has a universal and absolute affect on the genders in the USA. It makes the man less responsible - less a man.

I wonder how much of this is environmental.  If it is a safety issue any man will do that has hands.

Do you think this is unjust, a fabrication.  I can assure you it is not!   When a woman, or man, or couple experience ANYTHING in the USA, one or both are capable of dialing 911 - and the gender based system runs to the rescue.    This has a universal and absolute affect on the genders in Colombia.  It makes the man more responsible - more a man.
2, Food / Shelter / Resources - this is the second biggest factor. In the USA, a woman does not need a man for physical needs In fact, current studies show men are less and less capable compared to women.   Look at college enrollment, for example.   If women do not need men, they often choose not to have them - and wear flat shoes, and become fat.   But, the fact that men increasingly are not the sole or capable breadwinners / and that women do not need a man has a deep affect on the valuation of men too.

Then, there is the hypersensitivity feminist ... it is not OK for anybody to be sexy - except lesbians  (Hey has anyone notice the lesbian worship that is happening in the USA ?)

== anyway, I would be curious if FP, or others would suggest these two points are flawed?

Had a long chat with my uncle before he passed.  He would often ask the more international folk if we feel free living overseas.  We would often talk about individual liberties in different countries.  One of his best examples came out during our last discussion..  "The other day I was down near the boat ramp..  A car full of ladies hopped out of a SUV towing a fair sized boat.  They backed down the ramp, got the boat in the water and sped away to have some fun around the island. 

I was a bit befuddled with his example.. but did finally get the point that a large part of freedom is equality.

Equality brings choice..

In the US and some other countries women thrive on the choices that make them free.  In other countries it is indeed much different as you state but I think you confuse it with being feminine or 'traditional' when in fact they simply are provided with fewer choices in life.

Think about it a bit.

[Faux Pas]

Ahh!  I will overlook your penis wallet comments, and pretend you have a serious point.

There is a serious point there riv, you're just not capable of seeing it. Your level of integrity is what you do when nobody is looking

You do not think the value of a man is different in the USA to Colombia, for example?!?!?   I think you are severely mistaken.  Maybe in the eyes of God. But, as a practical matter, a man has a MUCH different social value in Colombia than the USA. 

Is this you building yet another straw man for you to attack? I'll remind you we got to this point, based on places "where men are still respected and have rights" and now it's men's social value in Columbia versus USA? Two different but, related, I'll grant you that. I am not referring to in the eyes of God. I am referring to the man himself, in his own eyes. If his respect for himself changes because he is in a 3rd world country, he has no integrity, dignity or self respect. Respect, and specifically self respect is earned. Not awarded because you are in a different place.

1, Security / Protection - this is the biggest factor.  While human beings have evolved for 10,000, it has been primarily the male gender that has protected the women and children.  In Colombia, that is still very much the case.  When your woman grabs your hand in Colombia, often times she feels more safe.  This NEVER happens in the USA.  This has a universal and absolute affect on the genders in the USA. It makes the man less responsible - less a man.

This does happen in the USA. Likely just doesn't happen to you. Maybe some self introspection will help you find out why. Many women still look to a man for protection and to feel safe. Even AW. Columbia hasn't cornered the market on women that look to a man as a protector. Some women, even in Columbia don't need a man for anything, just like many women elsewhere. Why would this threaten you as a man? If it doesn't threaten you, why is it an issue? Perhaps you don't give out the pheromones or vibes to indicate to WW that you are capable as a protector?

Do you think this is unjust, a fabrication.  I can assure you it is not!   When a woman, or man, or couple experience ANYTHING in the USA, one or both are capable of dialing 911 - and the gender based system runs to the rescue.    This has a universal and absolute affect on the genders in Colombia. 

It makes the man more responsible - more a man

.

Again, why would this bother or threaten you? Do you have a need to physically dominate your women? Can you not win women over with an interesting personality, wit and charm?
You ARE still responsible as a man to be a man, no matter if it's in Columbia, EE or the USA. Is the responsibility to be a real man just too much for you to bear?

2, Food / Shelter / Resources - this is the second biggest factor. In the USA, a woman does not need a man for physical needs In fact, current studies show men are less and less capable compared to women.   Look at college enrollment, for example.   If women do not need men, they often choose not to have them - and wear flat shoes, and become fat.   But, the fact that men increasingly are not the sole or capable breadwinners / and that women do not need a man has a deep affect on the valuation of men too.

I've got news for you guy, most women still need a man for physical needs too but, that's not all. Most men have to step their game up too. You yourself have had a laundry list of what you expect in a women yet, you think the women don't have the same? Your sense of entitlement is over the top. You seem to think women should need you because you are a male. You're in for a surprise if it ever does click. Women have to want you and it is your responsibility to insure that they do. That onus is yours.

Then, there is the hypersensitivity feminist ... it is not OK for anybody to be sexy - except lesbians (Hey has anyone notice the lesbian worship that is happening in the USA ?)

== anyway, I would be curious if FP, or others would suggest these two points are flawed?

I don't know that bizzaro world you are living in. I know and see sexy hetero women all the time, every day. The world has become really desensitized to the homosexual community. I'm comfortable in my heterosexuality, it doesn't bother me. I don't support it but, power to those who do.

Your points are seriously flawed and predicated on your need to have women "need you". Color me surprised.

I know of what you speak when you keep incessantly harping on women in Columbia. I would say it gives you  a very false sense of self-worth. I've been to Central America many times. I expect it isn't that different from Columbia. It can in no way be honestly compared to dating in the US. Very disingenuous to try.

[IAmZon]

I am nut talking about SELF worth.  I am talking about the social value of a man, or woman.

The opposite is true (I wonder how you will personalize this statement).  In the USA, few things are valued more than youth and beauty.  Do I really need to prove this?!?  So, take a 30 year old, very beautiful women from Colombia / Russia, and place her in Anywhere USA, it is likely she will feel a much higher social value.  (notice not self value)  Do you see this, or are you blind to this example too?