New member seeking some guidance

[BillyB]

I'm having a bit of a negative experience here.

she seems to be adamantly putting her foot down with little disappointment that it would keep us apart longer.

I also told her how old I would be then and that we would need to start a family pretty soon after that and she was pretty offended at that too. .

Trying to come to some kind of understanding with this lady and feeling a bit walked over.

She gets defensive any time I try to diffuse anything.

She seems pretty comfortable with the idea of telling me to sit on it. I'm just reacting to the  realities that are sinking in and she takes it as criticism.

I don't like the attitude that's emerging.

She's a sweet, decent girl.

And you conclude she's sweet and decent? This is her best foot forward. May go downhill from here. There are much easier and less riskier paths to take. Find someone who's willing to take the same path as you instead of having to alter yours.

[southernX]

so john ,

are you still with us 

and if so how is it going ?

SX

[John_A]

Ha! It fell apart badly. Very emotionally volatile person, unpredictable mood swings.

I went and renewed my passport and told her the process (e.g. I dropped the app in the mail, etc.), just to reassure her I was not playing some dumb game with her and was actually taking steps, etc. Later she turned that against me as if I was asking her to "babysit" me through the process (see below). whaaaaaaaat?

We spoke some more about her schooling here and she was very defensive, but eventually we ironed it our (she thought I was going to expect she submit herself to an exploitative process being a graduate student, etc., I explained it wasn't the case).

At one point I gave her a video tour of my condo, and shortly after that she had seen in it that I was drinking a can of pepsi and started nagging me hard about drinking soda, and as soon as I defended myself over it (all in a very measured and reasonable way) she suggested we take a "'time break."

So I played along. . .the whole time thinking this was pretty stupid. She gave the silent treatment and I gave it right back -- I mean she wanted the "time break" so she's getting it. It was easy because this early in the game I've been keeping my options open and started talking to someone in the states.

Then her birthday came two  days ago and to be a gentleman I decided to break the silence and very politely wished her a happy birthday (I had sent a card in the mail several weeks ago). She said thanks etc. She sent me a pic with some flowers people had sent including a "former student" in America (childish game to try and make me jealous). The next day I suggested we talk and that I was concerned about our problems communicating and that maybe we weren't compatible, but maybe it was something we could work through. I was very polite and she sent a very nasty response accusing me of not being a "real" man, and just taking care of all the logistical problems of visiting her. I told her off, ended all contact and that's that.

Start to finish 5 weeks.

Insight gained was priceless. Saved several thousands not visiting someone who probably would have made my life hell. Interesting experience. Too bad for her! On to the next prospect.

Thank you all for being here. I seemed really good at first but in the event reality says otherwise. I don't see why I should limit my pursuits to Russia though. The cultural differences seem to be very great, and developing a LTR is hard. Maybe if I were to meet a Russian in the future in the States or during travel this is a venue I could pursue.

[Boethius]

I'm not so certain she was volatile from what you posted.  You missed a major cultural cue, which was in failing to send her flowers.  That is why she sent you a picture with flowers others had sent her.  It wasn't to make you jealous.  It was to "tell" you what a dolt you were.     


When you are into the game playing of the silent treatment, you are already losing.  It's not a productive way to resolve conflict.

[Muzh]

Heh, I just love it when some of these American guys profess to look to the former Soyuz in search of a feminine delicate maiden and then they treat her like they treat the American women, like dogs. No wonder they are still looking.

[John_A]

I'm not so certain she was volatile from what you posted.  You missed a major cultural cue, which was in failing to send her flowers.  That is why she sent you a picture with flowers others had sent her.  It wasn't to make you jealous.  It was to "tell" you what a dolt you were.     


When you are into the game playing of the silent treatment, you are already losing.  It's not a productive way to resolve conflict.

As for volatility, read Billy B's post above.

Look, from one day to the next I could not tell what her mood would be. One day everything would be smooth and sweet, the next there would complain that our communication was strained, out of nowhere.

As far as flowers are concerned -- What-ever. We have been talking for hardly a MONTH. So I missed a cultural cue. LISTEN: I DID NOT GO "LOOKING" FOR A RUSSIAN WOMAN. SHE CONTACTED ME TWICE. I sent her a birthday card 2-3 weeks ago. She was not talking to me because I calmly disagreed with her over drinking soda. . . I should pursue a nag like that? 

[John_A]

Heh, I just love it when some of these American guys profess to look to the former Soyuz in search of a feminine delicate maiden and then they treat her like they treat the American women, like dogs. No wonder they are still looking.

I can see there's a lot of pigs on this board. Why did I even bother telling you all how this ended? How did I treat her like a "dog?" Did you even read the thread or are you just shooting your mouth off to offend someone?

Muhz = pig.

So I should not carefully screen for compatibilty, jump on a plane like a fool to some frozen tundra in March, deposit $$$ in her account so she can get a tourist visa, have her come, marry a controlling, emotionally manipulative nag, have kids with her, then get divorced only to see her look for another husband in the states. Sounds like a GREAT plan.

[Muzh]

I can see there's a lot of pigs on this board. Why did I even bother telling you all how this ended? How did I treat her like a "dog?"

Muhz = pig.

Oy. Pig, huh?


Playing little mind games to see who is superior. A birthday card for her birthday. How economical.


Dude, you are dealing with another culture. The world is not America. I know that in your (red)neck of the woods some DO believe that. However, you are part of the academia, or so you say. And that by itself should separate you from the ignoramus.


If you believe you are so right, as demonstrated by the little mind games you are playing, then stick with the people that are familiar with these stupid games. If not, then STFU and listen because you have a lot to learn.


That is, if you want to end up in a good relationship. However, I'm not holding my hopes too high based on your knee-jerk reaction of foot-in-mouth.


At least I know now where to categorize you. 

[Boethius]

As for volatility, read Billy B's post above.

No thanks.  I don't read his posts.

Look, from one day to the next I could not tell what her mood would be. One day everything would be smooth and sweet, the next there would complain that our communication was strained, out of nowhere.

That is how she was feeling.

As far as flowers are concerned -- What-ever. We have been talking for hardly a MONTH. So I missed a cultural cue. LISTEN: I DID NOT GO "LOOKING" FOR A RUSSIAN WOMAN. SHE CONTACTED ME TWICE. I sent her a birthday card 2-3 weeks ago. She was not talking to me because I calmly disagreed with her over drinking soda. . . I should pursue a nag like that? 

I don't recall telling you to pursue her.  All I was saying was, you missed the cultural cues.  Even the comment on the soda was, in a sense, cultural.  It wasn't intended as nagging.  It was intended to convey that she cares about you and your health. 

[John_A]

Boethius, there are just too many cultural differences here, true. You can slice it any way you want, though, she's emotionally volatile. She was telling me stuff going on in her life that suggested the same, very prone to anger and pouting, very impulsive.

[Boethius]

If these things are non starters, then a Slav is not for you.

[tfcrew]

Personal attacks are just not necessary.
If it's [internet relationship] not working out, then move on.
The 'guidance' not appreciated ??...then learn how to use the ignore function.

[Nightwish]

John..

I got this message from one of the very first ladies in FSU I was in (serious)contact with, after I made a slight error not wishing her good morning 2 days straight on Viber, and I had sent her a birthday gift (a smartphone, not really expensive) so we could be in contact more bcs she did not have one.. I accidentally brought that gift up at a time and due to language barrier she thought I meant she owed me something.

We cleared all that up, but this message said it all I think.

"And My man will be write me first EVERY TIME! because I am woman!! My man will be doing all for me because I woman!! MY MAN after make for me any good after don't say me " I , for you and you..." No!!! Because he is MAN!!! If no - it's no my man!"

Women in FSU wants to be treated as WOMEN/Ladies/Royalties, you court her, your job is to keep her interested, you are the MAN. (remember that last part)

You are competing on an "uneven surface" .. the men there (most of them) do treat their woman as royalties, at least during courtship, so they expect that from all men.

[John_A]

John..

I got this message from one of the very first ladies in FSU I was in (serious)contact with, after I made a slight error not wishing her good morning 2 days straight on Viber, and I had sent her a birthday gift (a smartphone, not really expensive) so we could be in contact more bcs she did not have one.. I accidentally brought that gift up at a time and due to language barrier she thought I meant she owed me something.

We cleared all that up, but this message said it all I think.

"And My man will be write me first EVERY TIME! because I am woman!! My man will be doing all for me because I woman!! MY MAN after make for me any good after don't say me " I , for you and you..." No!!! Because he is MAN!!! If no - it's no my man!"

Women in FSU wants to be treated as WOMEN/Ladies/Royalties, you court her, your job is to keep her interested, you are the MAN. (remember that last part)

You are competing on an "uneven surface" .. the men there (most of them) do treat their woman as royalties, at least during courtship, so they expect that from all men.

See, THIS is useful. Thank you! Huuuuge difference in paradigms.

[jone]

One of the funniest things that always struck me when an FSU woman was talking to me is she would ask me how my MOOD was.  I thought to myself, how would that really determine the conversation.

Well, I learned the hard way. 

To an FSU Woman, Mood is a great indicator of how a conversation will go.  There are some days my fiancee just looks at me, gives me a grim nod and indicates that she is going to be having a bad day.  By now, I recognize it, speak softly and usually begin by massaging her neck.

[GatoMoon]

John A

Regarding to travel to see her, it is wise to have a Plan B in case things did not work out.    I know an American man (from Luckylovers website) who was about your age, flew all the way to Moscow from USA.   When she saw him at the airport, she did not like the way he looked so she ran off.  Luckily, he has a friend from Luckylovers site who happened to live in Moscow. 

[BillyB]

 John there was a time most men here hung onto the wrong woman way too long including me. I don't waste my time with women like the one you just experienced anymore. Regardless if she's from another culture, she has bad manners and is full of drama. Regardless if you made cultural mistakes, she is not tolerant or forgiving. Strangely enough some men here would pursue and marry a woman like that living on pins and needles knowing that every mistake they make could bring silent treatment for weeks or months. Life is tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid. Much better women out there, just got to find them....... And avoid their husbands!

[Faux Pas]

As for volatility, read Billy B's post above.

Look, from one day to the next I could not tell what her mood would be. One day everything would be smooth and sweet, the next there would complain that our communication was strained, out of nowhere.

As far as flowers are concerned -- What-ever. We have been talking for hardly a MONTH. So I missed a cultural cue. LISTEN: I DID NOT GO "LOOKING" FOR A RUSSIAN WOMAN. SHE CONTACTED ME TWICE. I sent her a birthday card 2-3 weeks ago. She was not talking to me because I calmly disagreed with her over drinking soda. . . I should pursue a nag like that? 

No, life is too short. If it isn't good anytime in the early going, run like your ass is on fire. You mentioned early on how moody and volatile her temperament is. It wasn't cultural, it is bad behavior. The fact that neither of you could disagree with the other without going tit for tat is telling.

The silent treatment is childish and as mentioned non-productive. If you had serious intentions prior to her birthday you should have sent her flowers (with a card added). That is cultural, she was expecting it and if you were serious you should have sent them. Your logistics obviously were of no consequence to her c'est la vie. If you find or look for another it will likely be much different.

Even with the cultural differences which, in the grand scope of things are not very much in the way of differences. I consider them more nuances. The communication should flow and be a pleasure every step of the way. Not a bunch of nitpicking crap where tempers flare. Say so long and move along

[John_A]

She was also racist, she knew I don't like racism but it kept leaking out. . . "why are there so many blacks in that picture?"

[Boethius]

She may have been racist, but that question, in and of itself, is not racist.   She likely is not used to seeing a lot of people of African origin, so the question could just be curiosity. 

[John_A]

Well, that's true. . . she seemed to go back and forth, some times she would say stuff that was a bit concerning, and regardless I was going to have to definitely talk to her about it.

[Faux Pas]

Well, that's true. . . she seemed to go back and forth, some times she would say stuff that was a bit concerning, and regardless I was going to have to definitely talk to her about it.

Obviously a moot point being you're done with her, eh?

Racism for you, what you've seen in your time in the American South is not the same for her. Or as to say, she likely wouldn't recognize it as racism the same as you. Likely nor would you recognize it where she's from. These aren't cultural differences, they are geographical ones. Chances are she was being inquisitive as likely she hasn't seen any number of black folks in person in her life. If even one.

If you continue to seek FSUW you'll need a thicker skin and prepare yourself for most brunt totally honesty in conversation. Some of it endearing, some you'll have to decipher and some may turn you off. Mostly because of the way you've been programmed

[ML]

By now, I recognize it, speak softly and usually begin by massaging her neck.

OK, so you learned something you could do.

But there is a more effective place to massage; so your learning must continue.  I provide locational instructions for a fee.

[ML]

The advice to this point (for John's future reference) is a mixture of (1) learn her culture and adhere to its dictates and (2) don't put up with rudeness and any form of crap.

My advice and procedure is:

1) Realize that there is a shortage of good men for these FSU women to match up with, while there is no shortage of good FSU women.

2) Treat them well, but don't put up with any crap.

3) There really aren't that many cultural differences of substance; and where there are cultural differences the FSU woman has an obligation to adapt to your culture just as much as you have an obligation to adapt to her culture.

I could count on one hand (out of a hundred or so women) when I had them pull the 'if you were a man . . . or you are the man so you must do . . . ' stunt.  My response was to just walk away or put them in a taxi.

Keep this in mind for the future John; and next time around do some better planning and don't focus in on only one woman so early in the game.

[mendeleyev]

Muhz = pig.

John, I won't beat you up for spelling it wrong, but will protest using the beginning lines from a poem by Vladimir Mayakovsky. It reads:
Нет.
Это неправда.
Нет!
И ты?

Translation: No. It is not true. No! and (what) are you?


However, "Muzh" in Russian is муж. That means "husband" and sometimes "man" or even "lord."

Someday if you decided to continue this venture, perhaps a lady will make you муж и жена (husband and wife). Meanwhile, that "pig" has successfully accomplished what you've just begun. In fact, he has the knowledge to share a lot-- and you might benefit from learning.