A FSUW goes on a WOVO trip to visit a Western guy

[Patagonie]

Pat, that is probably the greatest post you've ever made - and there have been a lot of great ones!   

Thank you. 

[Miquel Westano]

Thank you. 

I have to agree.  You are fun to read and interesting too. 

But this was a great post among many very good ones.  Especially since you are quite familiar with the culture involved, it gives you better than average insight.  I hope she takes your encouragement to heart.  It sounds like she deserves a good partner.

[abashka]

Dear lady
I feel so sad, i feel so disappointed for you.
I mean that it's so hard to go on a WOVO or WMVO, to have strong feelings and that all blow away.
Notice that i am french, and that i am married to a ukrainian lady.
You feel so delicate, so russian, so real in your expression. I know for certainty that you are a true lady.

Thank you very much!

Please read this carefully.
This man was not stable (notice that i am using the past - preterit - actions ended)
He was not stable emotionnaly. His divorce and his all previous love stories were a burden.
You don't have to share such burden, don't you?
There is some part of truth in the french culture about expressing negativity and criticizing a lot of things.
But please remember for the future that to be positive, having a partner who is not blaming but only expressing his disagreement, is the way for a healthy relationship. I do think that's important.

Dear Lady
This man was uneducated, uneducated about your culture, about how things should be respected for a true story.
But more: he is not the appropriate man for you because he's not free.
 the evil is in his head and you are not a nurse.
 He probably loves you for a part but that not how you can blossom.

About this story about his money. The situation is that he normally gets a lot of money, but the life in NC is quite expansive. The alimonies for children is something like minus 18% of his wage. But he has perhaps also an alimony for her ex wife if she is not working. There is something not normal and i bet that he didn't explain you all. Are you sure that he was really divorced?

It's better to be sure that a man had made his mourny before starting a serious story.
 It seems to me that his divorce was very fresh, too fresh in his memory.

Yes, he was really divorced 12 (!!!!) years ago. But you are right, it is still very fresh in his memory. I even asked him once - why you cannot forget about the past and think about the future? Hate is very destructive feeling, it is not good for you...He still  hated her soo much!!

As for his ex - she is a very successful woman, I think it is another reason he still hates her so much, that she survived after he left her. It is something like jealousy.

[abashka]

Part 3

I came home. He was very excited, we talked every day, though he still tried to blame me if it seemed to him I said something wrong (English is not native for either of us). I even told him once – ok, the girls did not treat you well before, but I didn't cause you any harm, so why should I pay for their mistakes?

Everything seemed to be ok and one day he said he was thinking about marrying me and we should plan it during our next skype session.  No need to say how happy I was, though I had some doubts and could not fully trust him after all he had done.

So I asked him some questions about how he saw our future life, as, for example, I will not be allowed to work for 2 years + I do not know French. He said ok, no need to work my salary is enough for all of us (and here I remembered his phrase about “low bank account”).
After that he disappeared for 3 or 4 days. He did not write me at all and after 2 days I asked if he was ok (though all these days he was online in fb I saw new posts in my news). I said I worried about him and I could understand he could be busy, but he could just write me about it something like that “sorry, dear, next 2-3 days  I will be busy and will not be able to talk to you”. I would understand it.  After that he unfriended me in fb as “you used fb to spy on me these days and you are fucking my brain now” (I mentioned I saw him online). 

He said he was sick and tired/nervous and he left his job as a teacher, decided to study something new (for a year) and start his own business. I was a little bit shocked. I said ok, but you could tell me about such plans, if you were going to change your life so much as for me it meant you will be unemployed for 2 years and would not be able to marry me. His answer was - my health is more important for me. Ok. Anyway I did not ask for anything, it was his choice all I could do was to agree and support him.

At that time he frankly told me that he bought a flat with his ex, then she left him and he had to pay it alone (mortgage) more than 2k euros every month, that is why he lived with mom (ooops he said before it was his apartment!) and that is why his account  was low. So he was going to sell it to pay the mortgage.

I asked ok you are unemployed now and you are full of debts, how are you going to live? The answer killed me – dear, my parents are not poor, they will help me.  I always thought at 43 you should help your parents already, no?

But ok, I saw he had a plan, he was motivated etc so I told not to worry I will agree with any decision and can wait until he solved all his problems.

He was going to sell his bike to be able to visit me this summer
 
About the kids..I asked many times why he did not see them and every time I got different answers. This question worried me very much as I have a kid too and cannot understand him. He said his ex took the kids and did not allow him to see them. I knew that it is very hard to do in European countries (he worked in the police then so I do not think he had any problems with law) so it was strange that he had not visited them for 4 years and only saw them once a year in the city accidentally.  They are 14 now, they have mobiles and fb but he did not want to try to write them, he said he tried for several years and did not want it anymore, he just did not have kids.

Oh, yes, “I paid for them so much already and did not see them”, “I regret I had kids with this bitch” etc. However, he said he was a good dad for them and I do think he was, he was just hurt he could not see them and blamed his ex for it. It was something like a protection I think.

At that time he started losing interest, we stopped talking on skype (though we did it only once a week) and wrote me once in two or three days only. He did not ask me how I was etc, and even when I wrote first his answers were short. I told once that I do not feel he was interested anymore. The answer was – oh, no baby, I just have a lot of work. Ok..no time for me..so sad…I tried to talk… to explain that I need more attention, than “how are you?” once in three days. He just kept silent.

I started to understand that probably he was not the one I need though it hurt me much.
But I still tried to repair it. I tried not to annoy him, etc.

The last dialog was when he said that French laws are strange, even stupid, I laughed and answered – many things are strange, not only laws. He said : Me for example??? That is what you were thinking about?????? I answered – noooo, I meant the language as French grammar is strange for me. He said – you are cynical.

For me it was the last straw. I was kind and nice to him always. I tried to understand and accept all his quirks; I always tried to find excuses for him if he did something I did not like. I tried to respect his feelings. I never said anything that could offend him etc. And after all of it he said I am cynical? I wrote him all of it and it was my last message.

He did not answer anything as I think somewhere deep inside he probably knew I was right.

In two or three days he posted some pics with a local girl hugging him with comments “baby I love you”. Since that time this story is finished for me. I did not write him anything further and I am not going to do it.

Though I do think I deserve to be informed about it properly. If he wanted to get rid of me he could just write – sorry, I found another girl. I would understand and accept it.

Anyway, I am not angry about him. I saw a nice country thanks to him, he really tried to show me it. And I got a very good lesson for future.



The end.

[Steamer]

Hello Abashka,
It sounds to me like he really didn't know WHAT he wanted and you are good to be rid of him. It shows your good character that you can find good in this.

[Anotherkiwi]

It shows your good character that you can find good in this.

While I agree, and I wish abashka the very best for the future, isn't this exactly the same behaviour (by her) that people on here won't tolerate from men?    One excuse after another; cultural differences; blowing hot and cold all the time; etc, etc, etc.  The only difference here seems to be that she at least had more fun in the bedroom than many male one-week wonders.

I agree that she is well rid of him - it's just a shame that such a lovely person (from what I hear in the chat room ) had to take so long, and spend so much money, to find out that he really is not the one for her - or for anyone, come to that.

[BillyB]

Abashka, you sound like a very kind and understanding person. You may think you can handle a man who has problems and is always full of excuses in life but you deserve a person who has their life in order.

[Anotherkiwi]

Abashka, you sound like a very kind and understanding person. You may think you can handle a man who has problems and is always full of excuses in life but you deserve a person who has their life in order.

Hear, hear! 

[msmobyone]

Ty molodetz!

you are being v. familiar with Abashka, Beel ! Do you know the good lady ?

[abashka]

you are being v. familiar with Abashka, Beel ! Do you know the good lady ?

Lol, nooo
But thank you all for your advices and support!

[LAman]

Dear lady

I feel so sad, i feel so disappointed for you.
I mean that it's so hard to go on a WOVO or WMVO, to have strong feelings and that all blow away.
Notice that i am french, and that i am married to a ukrainian lady.
You feel so delicate, so russian, so real in your expression. I know for certainty that you are a true lady.

Please read this carefully.
This man was not stable (notice that i am using the past - preterit - actions ended)
He was not stable emotionnaly. His divorce and his all previous love stories were a burden.
You don't have to share such burden, don't you?
There is some part of truth in the french culture about expressing negativity and criticizing a lot of things.
But please remember for the future that to be positive, having a partner who is not blaming but only expressing his disagreement, is the way for a healthy relationship. I do think that's important.

Dear Lady
This man was uneducated, uneducated about your culture, about how things should be respected for a true story.
But more: he is not the appropriate man for you because he's not free.
 the evil is in his head and you are not a nurse.
 He probably loves you for a part but that not how you can blossom.

About this story about his money. The situation is that he normally gets a lot of money, but the life in NC is quite expansive. The alimonies for children is something like minus 18% of his wage. But he has perhaps also an alimony for her ex wife if she is not working. There is something not normal and i bet that he didn't explain you all. Are you sure that he was really divorced?

It's better to be sure that a man had made his mourny before starting a serious story.
 It seems to me that his divorce was very fresh, too fresh in his memory.

Dear Lady
Stay around this forum, many men will help you. PM if you need.
I always said that many men need to have their ass to be kicked off. Not all people probably like me, because i am sometimes very frank, or perhaps rude, but i still think a lot of men are stupid, with women.
 I cannot, and i wouldn't, excuse them.

Keep the sorrow with you as you need  and just slowly release it to wash you heart and keep it pure as it was before.   
We need for the eternity women like you to feed our dreams and listen the music of our walkyries.

Yes, let's speak about the man in this story since he is not here to defend himself. The story here should be about the OP and her experience...her mistakes.. and her insecurities.
This is DATING........you learn about the person you MAY have interest in, preferably in person, and decide whether you want to develop a relationship.
IMO...the OP had her chances to look elsewhere, even had friends in area but she continued to stay with the guy. This was just a learning experience plain and simple. There should be no sadness.....no bickering...only learning.
OPP has hopefully learned a good lesson. Move on and make better decisions. I wish her good luck!!!

I agree with ML......why is advice here so different because this WOVO was a women??? If it was a guy...he would strung up so high you couldn't see him!!

[abashka]

Yes, let's speak about the man in this story since he is not here to defend himself. The story here should be about the OP and her experience...her mistakes.. and her insecurities.
This is DATING........you learn about the person you MAY have interest in, preferably in person, and decide whether you want to develop a relationship.
IMO...the OP had her chances to look elsewhere, even had friends in area but she continued to stay with the guy. This was just a learning experience plain and simple. There should be no sadness.....no bickering...only learning.
OPP has hopefully learned a good lesson. Move on and make better decisions. I wish her good luck!!!

I agree with ML......why is advice here so different because this WOVO was a women??? If it was a guy...he would strung up so high you couldn't see him!!

I do not want to speak about the guy here or to blame him as he has another view on all of the story I am sure and cannot defence himself as you said. I just told the story from my point of view and I do ask the others who read the story not to do it, please.

Yes, the lesson was good and I am not going to stop, I am ok with it.

[ML]

Yes, if this were a man's TR . . . there would be great criticism toward him that he did not properly learn about the cultural customs of persons in the country he was about to visit.

That he did not properly do his homework before the trip.

He would be criticized at great length about expecting too much from a first WOVM trip, that the woman owes you nothing . . . and on and on ad nauseam.

But yes, I well know about pussy power and its affect on males.

However, don't misinterpret my comments.  I greatly admire what Abashka has done, thank her for her very good TR and wish her the very best for the future.

[Patagonie]

Thank you very much!

Yes, he was really divorced 12 (!!!!) years ago. But you are right, it is still very fresh in his memory. I even asked him once - why you cannot forget about the past and think about the future? Hate is very destructive feeling, it is not good for you...He still  hated her soo much!!

As for his ex - she is a very successful woman, I think it is another reason he still hates her so much, that she survived after he left her. It is something like jealousy.

Thank you for your post

[TagUrIt898]

I was sad to hear that this poor excuse of a man was able to say enough right things to convince Anya, that he was worth her time.  Yes international dating is expensive, however he should have been the one doing the traveling.  I get ML's comment about doing homework.  I think doing your due diligence makes all the difference in the success or failure when international dating.  We all have fell victim to someone's intentions at some point in time, all you can do is pick yourself up, dust yourself off and learn from your mistakes.  I wish you the best in your search Anya, you deserve a good man don't ever settle for less.


Tag

[Patagonie]

Abashka
There is generally great ignorance among women about what a western could do to support a family.
They are not capable to assess the means of the guy when it's time to give to the story a chance.
And that's damned hard because many things can lower his income. So it's why it's so difficult to give easy rules on this topic.
All situations are personal.
But to make short, i don't see a french teacher, with an alimony (two children?) having the means to restart or start a family with
a foreigner. And in the motherland, things will be worse.
Only at the end of his career, if he passes with flying color the "agregation" or if he work as a professor at the university or if he is teaching in prepatory classes, than he possibly can have enough money to do such a thing.
Or he needs to work hard and fing a lot of extra-lessons to make really good money.

[abashka]

Abashka
There is generally great ignorance among women about what a western could do to support a family.
They are not capable to assess the means of the guy when it's time to give to the story a chance.
And that's damned hard because many things can lower his income. So it's why it's so difficult to give easy rules on this topic.
All situations are personal.
But to make short, i don't see a french teacher, with an alimony (two children?) having the means to restart or start a family with
a foreigner. And in the motherland, things will be worse.
Only at the end of his career, if he passes with flying color the "agregation" or if he work as a professor at the university or if he is teaching in prepatory classes, than he possibly can have enough money to do such a thing.
Or he needs to work hard and fing a lot of extra-lessons to make really good money.

Thank you, Pat, I understand it.
Anyway this story is finished for me:)
Next time I will be more careful.

[Anotherkiwi]

Thank you, Pat, I understand it.
Anyway this story is finished for me:)
Next time I will be more careful.

That is all we want to hear! 

[Subnuclear]

While the story is a sad one it's a great life lesson for the guys here too. Both sides seem to make the same mistakes and that the emotions and blindness are present that are so easily seen looking back or from a 3rd perspective.

Just as there are good girls and bad girls, there are also good guys and bad guys.

[Faux Pas]

While the story is a sad one it's a great life lesson for the guys here too. Both sides seem to make the same mistakes and that the emotions and blindness are present that are so easily seen looking back or from a 3rd perspective.

Just as there are good girls and bad girls, there are also good guys and bad guys.

If the truth be known, most of the guys are bad. When you consider less than 5% ever make a trip which would mean 95% never do

[Subnuclear]

Surprised so few make a trip. And i bet out of the  5 percent a large portion are sex tourists. I worked in Russia for almost 3 years but when I made a trip over to see a lady (that i met while working there) it was in a different city and i was still terrified. I speak so little Russian. My only saving grace was that one of my previous work translators lived in the same city and i knew without a doubt he would come to my aid if needed.

Turns out my fear was not warranted and I have had a Wonderful time going to Ufa.

[Faux Pas]

Surprised so few make a trip. And i bet out of the  5 percent a large portion are sex tourists. I worked in Russia for almost 3 years but when I made a trip over to see a lady (that i met while working there) it was in a different city and i was still terrified. I speak so little Russian. My only saving grace was that one of my previous work translators lived in the same city and i knew without a doubt he would come to my aid if needed.

Turns out my fear was not warranted and I have had a Wonderful time going to Ufa.

That 5% is a number that gets bandied about quite a bit. I've no idea how realistic or accurate it might be. When you consider the successes of websites like ADate, it might be about right.

No doubt some of that 5% is sex tourists. But I'd wager the number of sex tourists in that 5% is small. Sex tourist that would actually travel likely seek an easier, cheaper mark. Nothing easy or cheap about FSUW. We've had/have some here at RWD. I would further state that of the 95% bad men, an overwhelming majority of those are sex tourists afraid to travel.

The travel on it's face can sound scary just because it's a bit different but, as you know it's relatively painless. I've wandered the streets in Piter, Moscow and smaller cites in Siberia without a care in the world and felt completely safe. There was a thug in Piter once I thought might turn into more than a confrontation but he backed off. It was nothing really. There's area's in most cities and towns in the U.S. I won't wander. Ignorance is bliss sometimes I guess.

[Subnuclear]

Heck, I won't wander in my own city! (Houston).

I have never had a problem in the Streets of Russia (clubs yes).

one of my workers got into a huge fight in Kogalym. When the police came they arrested the Russian guy (he started it) and we went back to our normal night of drinking.

Another night working in Oca the local oil company had permanently rented the back room of the only club in town for us to use. There was a massive massive brawl in the club that night. None of us were involved but within 30 minutes of it happening all the big bosses of the oil company showed up to ensure we were ok. I thought that was pretty cool.

Now if i could just get used to eating mayonnaise on everything!!

[fathertime]

Interesting perspective and story.   The OP definitely missed some flags for a while.  In the future you must learn to cut guys like this off sooner. He had little consideration for you.  I'd be VERY wary of a man who never sees his young kids, regardless of what excuse he uses. 

It seemed very early for marriage to even have entered the picture, given the variables you spoke of.  You were saved by the degree of his incompetence, but next time you might not get so lucky. I think you should continue to elicit opinions here until you gain more ability to weed out 'undesirables'.
Good luck.
Father Time!

[abashka]

Interesting perspective and story.   The OP definitely missed some flags for a while.  In the future you must learn to cut guys like this off sooner. He had little consideration for you.  I'd be VERY wary of a man who never sees his young kids, regardless of what excuse he uses. 

It seemed very early for marriage to even have entered the picture, given the variables you spoke of.  You were saved by the degree of his incompetence, but next time you might not get so lucky. I think you should continue to elicit opinions here until you gain more ability to weed out 'undesirables'.
Good luck.
Father Time!

Thank you!