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Author Topic: WMVM Love by conveyor???  (Read 13806 times)

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Offline I/O

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2007, 03:45:05 PM »
There *is* a problem with condemning in a judgmental way methodology.

I don't agree with this at all. In this pursuit, one MUST make a judgement as to what is most suitable for HIM/HER and act upon it.  If one doesn't agree with another idea, they should say so and justify it.  Nothing wrong with the freshman reading some clear cut arguements one way or another and then HE can decide which idea suits HIM best.  To try to water it all down to the point of everyone agreeing that every idea is fine, will simply never happen and nor it should because it is in fact confusing to the freshman.

There is too much wishy washy nonsense flying around this whole game anyway without arguing that it should be spread further.  Get a bit of passion into ya....!!!  Ya gunna need it to survive this caper anyway....!!! ;D ;D

Back towards the topic.  I've always made my view clear enough regarding my preferred methodology, however with the VM route, the only arguement I have seen come up consistently in favour of it is supposedly more efficient use of resources, IE: time and money.  Frankly, I think it a pretty thin justifcation if one is seriously considering an international marriage.  If one hasn't a lot of time available and reasonable financial resources, they should be staying firmly on home soil. ;D

A couple of weeks a year vacation time and a basic salary ain't generally gunna cut the mustard in this caper.  A few years back when the water in the pond was a little clearer, it might have done, but from what I can see now, the frogs who sit hopefully around the edge of the RW pond should notice that the algee film on top of the pond is becomming thicker and they will have to dive deeper to find the clean stuff.  That takes time and money. :P :P

I/O

Offline Mir

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2007, 04:03:34 PM »
Quote
the frogs who sit hopefully around the edge of the RW pond should notice that the algee film on top of the pond is becomming thicker and they will have to dive deeper to find the clean stuff.

You know life exists only in the top 200 meters of the Black see (10%), below that the water is anoxic and only certain bacteria can live there.

Offline BillyB

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2007, 05:07:55 PM »

however with the VM route, the only argument I have seen come up consistently in favour of it is supposedly more efficient use of resources, IE: time and money.  Frankly, I think it a pretty thin justifcation if one is seriously considering an international marriage.  If one hasn't a lot of time available and reasonable financial resources, they should be staying firmly on home soil. ;D


I've been a WOVO kind of guy all my life. After a failed WOVO visit I woke up. Time and money is only part of the equation of why I switched. If I chose only one person to write or even a few, I would've never met my fiancee. Also, limiting myself of contacts limits the amount of quality women I can choose from. The fact that I found the right person for me and I'm the right person for her benefits both of us. WMVM gives a man the best chance to find the perfect match for himself just as women who date many men has more to choose from. Chances of picking the right person out of one or few people is remote.

I figure out of 100 women, 10 might be a good match for me to marry, and 1 out of 100 is perfect. So that means I need to engage lots of women to find that perfect one. It's possible men can date many women without using playboy techniques.

I ended up doing WMVO with my fiancee with lots of backup. Nobody in Uzbekistan was writing me back enough for me to take seriously. My second option was to go to the Sochi/Stavropol area of Russia to visit 3 ladies.

I  recommend to newbies to visit many ladies. Most newbies are blinded by love living in fantasy land when focused on one woman and don't correspond enough with her to make a rational decision to visit her.  After reading the boards over the years, I suspect more than 50% of the men out there don't call their lady before visiting. Being VM, a guy could make a better decision for who is best for him.

In my younger years I was blinded by love because I was a one woman at a time dater. Too many times I stayed with a woman who had issues and should've moved on to another woman sooner but I didn't have any women readily available to date because I was the one who limited myself. So I forced myself to be happy with what I got. You "one woman at a time" guys know what I mean.

Time and money isn't the best argument for VM, giving yourself a better chance to find the perfect woman is. The best argument for VO is winning the heart of your chosen woman over a VM guy. But you better hope her heart is worth winning when you visit her.



Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline IAmZon

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2007, 05:29:46 PM »
To remain on message, I would like to applaud the posts by Groov; Leslie; and BillyB.

Special Kudos to DKMM for apparently finding the middle ground WFVF.

Which is the right approach may largely be answered by the man initiated the approach; his clear mindedness; and stage of life.  This board is VERY valuable for a thoughtful man to deliberate and answer those internal questions deeply and honestly.

I have been a member on RWD since November - 7 months. In that time, I have gotten to "know" 4 - 7 members, and have watched their interests become desires; desires to become goals; and for, for some these goals have begun to realized.

The WMVM approach seems to be good for a guy to get a broad sense ... for a guy who is not necessarily ready to DECIDE.

The WFVF approach seems to be good for a guy who is over the initial culture and environment shock, and wants to be more quality vs quantity.

The WOVO approach can not be soberly recommended once the ground are known to the man.

Continue please...

Offline DKMM

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2007, 08:04:40 PM »
Amen Billy B, Amen.  I too was one of those guys.

I'd like to add that a 1st timer has really no business doing a WOVO.  That's just asking for an emotional beatdown.  But maybe that is what is needed...

On the other hand, if you don't take the time to get to know someone before showing up you are basing your #'s game on appearances and chemistry rather than focusing on their thought process.  A lot comes out in letters that you just can't get across in person because of the language barrier (with some exceptions).  When it comes down to it, you only have enough time and memory space to get to knew a few women via the letter route and try to visit them.

I went to Tver to meet several girls, but it was one that brought me there.  I ended up with a girl that was a "filler" in my schedule, but I took time to know her before I took off.  So that's why i advocate WFVF, or I - like Billy - would have never met my girl.


Offline ScottinCrimea

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2007, 06:29:17 AM »
That's what is great about this board.  We are hearing the opinions of many as to what has worked for them and why as well as what hasn't worked for them and why.  These comments are what will help the newbies decide and the experienced ones rethink their methods.  I have some ideas about which methods I personally think are best, but having no experience with them I try to reserve my comments about methods in general and speak to specific examples.  I know I certainly wouldn't recommend the way I found my wife.  I made every mistake in the book and by all rights I should have been scammed and taken to the cleaners.  Instead I lucked out and found an incredible woman.  Nice to know God still watches out for children and fools.

Offline WmGO

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2007, 09:58:10 AM »
I don't agree with this at all. In this pursuit, one MUST make a judgement as to what is most suitable for HIM/HER and act upon it. 
I/O


I/O, I agree with you. However, you misunderstood me. The kind of
judgment I was referring to was moral/ethical judgments not assessment/evaluative judgments.


Offline Bruce

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2007, 10:33:34 AM »
"The WMVM approach seems to be good for a guy to get a broad sense ... for a guy who is not necessarily ready to DECIDE.

The WFVF approach seems to be good for a guy who is over the initial culture and environment shock, and wants to be more quality vs quantity.

The WOVO approach can not be soberly recommended once the ground are known to the man."

The above does not make sense to me at all.

One has to be able to interact in the FSU in a real way after understanding much of the culture before any of the approaches should work, though many men never are able to interact in the FSU in a real way without understanding the culture using all of the approaches including WNVS, WMVM, WFVS and WNVM.  Yet, many guys meet their gals despite their approach or themselves.  Bottom line is that there are different strokes for different folks and there is no one right way. 

Again, what worked for me and I believe will work for many of the single guys out there is to go to a target rich environment either with or without the help of a guide or agency (though most will need help) and start meeting women.  You must know yourself and what you are looking for in a girl for any approach to work.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 10:37:11 AM by Bruce »
"A word is dead when it is said, some say.  I say it just begins to live that day."  Emily Dickinson

Offline BC

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2007, 01:29:08 PM »

I/O, I agree with you. However, you misunderstood me. The kind of
judgment I was referring to was moral/ethical judgments not assessment/evaluative judgments.



And moral / ethical judgments are exactly what should be avoided in this venture and on this board.  There are many here who may not fit your 'shoe' so don't try to cram us into one.

Offline Mir

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2007, 02:03:00 PM »
Intersting how what goes round comes round.
A certain gentleman who was criticizing others for being judgmental is himself being criticized for being judgmental :)

Offline Admin

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2007, 02:05:23 PM »
Hey Y'all,

Please get back on track.

The question had to do with WMVM, and is a legitimate question.

Let's stay on-point.

Thanks,

- Dan

Online 2tallbill

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2007, 02:21:11 PM »
I went on a trip wovo and then when it didn't work out I went to a couple of agencies and arranged several meetings. It didn't work out as a success however.

Not sure exactly what the accronym is for that wovo / wnvm ???

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline WmGO

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2007, 03:51:43 PM »
And moral / ethical judgments are exactly what should be avoided in this venture and on this board.  There are many here who may not fit your 'shoe' so don't try to cram us into one.

BC,

It is interesting that you direct that comment (which originates from your anti Christian mentality) towards me instead of Scot, I/O and Kuna who were the one's doing all of the original "judging" re: Pike and his TR. I also find it interesting that you have now done this twice - this one here and the first instance on the Pike TR thread. I also find it interesting that neither Scot, I/O or Kuna have responded to either two instances of your though shall not make moral judgments posts.

And I do disagree with your viewpoint. There is a lot of rank immoral, indecent and fraudulent conduct going on in the whole WM - FSUW culture (on both sides). It needs to be exposed and cleaned up.

Be happy. Jesus loves you. :)

Intersting how what goes round comes round.
A certain gentleman who was criticizing others for being judgmental is himself being criticized for being judgmental :)

Mir,

Assuming you are referring to me, I was referring to being judgmental about WMVM and providing generic non explicit descriptions of FSUW in TRs. Nothing more and nothing less. Being "judgmental" on matters of decency and appropriate conduct is an entirely separate matter.

Offline catzenmouse

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2007, 05:48:38 PM »
(which originates from your anti Christian mentality)

There is a lot of rank immoral, indecent and fraudulent conduct going on in the whole WM - FSUW culture (on both sides). It needs to be exposed and cleaned up.

WmGo,

 Each of us has our own moral, ethical, and religious/spiritual beliefs. They are what they are and they are personal to each of us. Personally I agree with what I have read in BC's comments to you which is that you are, with your posts, trying to force your sense of morality unto the posts/thought/comments of others.

 This is not a morality board nor is it a religious board. It IS a board about FSUW. It would create less antagonistic responses if we kept those personal beliefs out of the board in general.

FWIW,
 Ken
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Online 2tallbill

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2007, 12:25:33 AM »
BC,

It is interesting that you direct that comment (which originates from your anti Christian mentality) towards me instead of Scot, I/O and Kuna who were the one's doing all of the original "judging" re: Pike and his TR. I also find it interesting that you have now done this twice - this one here and the first instance on the Pike TR thread. I also find it interesting that neither Scot, I/O or Kuna have responded to either two instances of your though shall not make moral judgments posts.

And I do disagree with your viewpoint. There is a lot of rank immoral, indecent and fraudulent conduct going on in the whole WM - FSUW culture (on both sides). It needs to be exposed and cleaned up.

Be happy. Jesus loves you. :)

Mir,

Assuming you are referring to me, I was referring to being judgmental about WMVM and providing generic non explicit descriptions of FSUW in TRs. Nothing more and nothing less. Being "judgmental" on matters of decency and appropriate conduct is an entirely separate matter.

Jesus loves everyone!

But the objective in this thread is to debate the benefits and the disadvantages of WMVM and other strategies and not something else.

Debating religion, is a different topic which although I agree is a factor in everyones decision. The differences from person to person

differ too much individually to a part of the scope of this thread. I respect others religion but lets argue these differences somewhere else.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Daveman

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2007, 12:57:10 AM »
BillyB pretty much summed up my dilemma with the WMVM situation a while back.  I would not do another WOVO trip.  I think I would develop a new category for myself of WNDMOAAT...  Write None Date Many One At A Time  :P  Probably unworkable for most on the time factor involved.  Meeting strictly as friends concurrently I could get to know a few, but even then, I think I'd feel weird about it so I wouldn't be my normal relaxed and charming self. I would need to meet them one at a time - well of course all meetings are one at a time, but I mean find some agencies I somewhat trust, who know their girls, give them my criteria and my in depth personal information (both translated professionally for them and the ladies to read about me, who I am, what I am looking for, etc.) and let them match me with one at a time and see if we click. If not, move on to another.  If so, then spend some quality unhurried time with that one and simply date her and get to know her better.  I'd have to keep guard to ward of any 'settling' for anything less than my *reasonable* criteria, but using this approach, I think I could accomplish much more with each visit.  There are some obvious caveats with this approach such as the language barrier.  But my goal of the trip would be to meet someone who meets all my criteria and I meet hers, to continue relations and growth until the next visit.

I don't think there's really any way I could accomplish a real WMVM because it goes against my nature (not my morals) and I simply wouldn't be at ease enough to let things flow in a normal and natural way.

Dave



 

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Offline Jet

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2007, 04:32:50 AM »

And I do disagree with your viewpoint. There is a lot of rank immoral, indecent and fraudulent conduct going on in the whole WM - FSUW culture (on both sides). It needs to be exposed and cleaned up.

Be happy. Jesus loves you. :)

Looks like the "moral majority" has a successor to the recently vacated throne.  :whew:
WmGO, I appreciate your passion but the fact of the matter is that we are dealing with 30-60 yr old men, not 14 yr old boys, and if they haven't developed a strong code of personal ethics yet, your pontification on a message board ain't going to convince them that RIGHT NOW is the time to start. Sure there are people with less than admirable intentions  in the west and the FSU. There are people like that in EVERY country in the world, and those types of people will exist long after you and I are long gone from this world.

PS: I am happy, whether he does or not  ;)
Every action in company ought to be done with some sign of respect to those that are present. ~ Geo. Washington

Offline WmGO

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2007, 03:37:18 PM »
you are, with your posts, trying to force your sense of morality unto the posts/thought/comments of others.

Ken, I appreciate your comments but the above is completely inaccurate. I have never tried to *force* any such thing.

By logic, mere *reference* to a religious belief or mere comment of *being* Christian is not trying to "force" anything. It is just a mere comment or reference.

And in the context that BCs comment was made,as well as yours -  (Pike TR) this should be crystal clear. NOWHERE have I ever said anyone *must* do or not do anything or *believe* or not believe anything based on my personal Christian beliefs. 

What we all must realize is that this is a very diverse forum. There are professed atheists, agnostics, deists, communists, socialists, nominal Christians and maybe even some serious Christians. Everyone is entitled to their own viewpoints yes incuding the Christian. But in the context of this Board my own faith has rarely ever come up and certainly never in the context of trying to force anything on anyone.

Like I told David in the Pike TR, I understand and do not necessarily disagree with the adult free will points that he and now you make. But there ARE some things that men of integrity (from wherever they derive it from or base it upon) need to try to improve and clean up the bad parts of the WM/FSUW culture. I think that is what Scot, I/O and Kuna were trying to do with Pike. Does it matter if their motivation in doing so was based on Christian principles or some other beliefs or moral principles? I think not.

Best regards.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 03:39:52 PM by WmGO »

Offline catzenmouse

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2007, 03:51:22 PM »
Ken, I appreciate your comments but the above is completely inaccurate. I have never tried to *force* any such thing.

By logic, mere *reference* to a religious belief or mere comment of *being* Christian is not trying to "force" anything. It is just a mere comment or reference.

And in the context that BCs comment was made,as well as yours -  (Pike TR) this should be crystal clear. NOWHERE have I ever said anyone *must* do or not do anything or *believe* or not believe anything based on my personal Christian beliefs.

Fair enough WmGo. I'll take it that it was just in the way I read it and not in the intention of your posts.

Quote
What we all must realize is that this is a very diverse forum. There are professed atheists, agnostics, deists, communists, socialists, nominal Christians and maybe even some serious Christians. Everyone is entitled to their own viewpoints yes incuding the Christian. But in the context of this Board my own faith has rarely ever come up and certainly never in the context of trying to force anything on anyone.

The diversity of posters, their experiences, their knowledge, and their ways of thinking is what makes RWD the very best discussion board around bar none. It is what draws good people here and the fact that it is very much self moderating (like in how people saw behind the words of Pikes TR) shows the integrity and values of the members. We have many strong personalities here and in any situation where strong personalities get together they are bound to butt heads from time to time. One thing that I have seen here is that those same head butters will find a common ground and respect for each other. In essence they behave like adults and not like spoiled children as I have seen on most of the other boards I have ever been involved with. The other boards who behaved well overall were tiny in comparison with RWD so again it shows the great value of our members that we can have a fairly large membership and still (mostly) keep it civil and real.

Quote
Like I told David in the Pike TR, I understand and do not necessarily disagree with the adult free will points that he and now you make. But there ARE some things that men of integrity (from whatever they derive it from or base it upon) need to try to improve and clean up in the whole WM/FSUW culture. I think that is what Scot, I/O and Kuna were trying to do with Pike. Does it matter if their motivation in doing so was based on Christian principles or some other beliefs or moral principles? I think not.

Best regards.

This is the main driving force behind the CMA project, which has not gotten near enough attention IMO, which is to help clean up this business and help those who are searching to find ethical and honest agencies to work with. Still we see a constant stream of newbies arrive here asking about this or that agency who are clearly less than stellar so until the CMA takes real hold in the industry those who are not educated will continue to fund these businesses who are often less than stellar.

Ken
"Marriage is that relation between man and woman in which the independence is equal, the dependence mutual, and the obligation reciprocal."
-- Louis K. Anspacher

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2007, 03:55:27 PM »
There are professed atheists, agnostics, deists, communists, socialists, nominal Christians and maybe even some serious Christians.
I must say never noticed such a variety of beliefs and professions in our membership (except in your particular case, of which you chose to make a public statement).
Quote
Everyone is entitled to their own viewpoints yes incuding the Christian.
Absolutely, unless, IMHO, one elects to claim some moral superiority, in which case it becomes a question of preaching, rather than expressing a viewpoint.
Milan's "Duomo"

Offline BC

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2007, 07:23:43 AM »
BC,

It is interesting that you direct that comment (which originates from your anti Christian mentality) towards me instead of Scot, I/O and Kuna who were the one's doing all of the original "judging" re: Pike and his TR.

Ken, I appreciate your comments but the above is completely inaccurate. I have never tried to *force* any such thing.

By logic, mere *reference* to a religious belief or mere comment of *being* Christian is not trying to "force" anything. It is just a mere comment or reference.

And in the context that BCs comment was made,as well as yours -  (Pike TR) this should be crystal clear. NOWHERE have I ever said anyone *must* do or not do anything or *believe* or not believe anything based on my personal Christian beliefs. 

.. surely more than a 'mere reference' was intended.

Might as well call me a heathen and be done with it.  Step down from the altar and we'll get along just fine.

Offline WmGO

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2007, 08:22:46 AM »
BC, please don't assume.

No, by mere reference I did not intend
anything more - I was just explaining myself to Kuna and David in
the other thread. Nothing more and nothing less. That was a dialogue between *me* and *them*, and in the case of my dialogue with David all I did was answer his question to me about "why" I felt a certain way about something. Nothing more and nothing less.

It is best not to assume intentions or motivations in internet forums. It is best to only go by what is clearly said or written. For example, when David mentioned being an agnostic I would never infer or assume that he was trying to force agnosticism on me or anyone else. Ditto when people reference being atheist or subscribing to some North American Indian religion. I will never make any assumptions about their motivations or intentions in mentioning their belief system.

Trust me, if and when I step onto the "altar" it will be very clear.   :)   And I haven't done that - yet. ;)

To put the whole matter in further perspective consider this:

1. I am not the one who scrutinizes peoples' TRs to see if they are doing something wrong or whether they have the "wrong" attitudes.

2. I am not the one who monitors postings and TRs to detect and pronounce someone to be a sex tourist.

3. I am not the one who condemns and judges others for perhaps having an alter ego on the forum.

4. I am not the one who judges anyone for having s*x with FSUW - the only thing I say is if you do please be smart and wear protection. Yes, if I am pushed up against the wall as I was in the other thread I will have to say I do not approve of playboy behavior so as to not look like I am defending or condoning that behavior - but you won't see me - and noone has seen me ever say anything negative about it outside that context.

5. I am not the one who judges anyone for doing WMVM, WOVO or any other methodology for meeting FSUW.

6. I am not the one who judges someone for posting his wife's modeling photos.

7. This is nowhere near a complete list of things that others here regularly judge and which I stay out of.

So please keep these matters in perspective.

Ken, thank you for that cordial reponse that does well to keep this subject in perspective.

Regards to all, good luck, and peace!!



 




Offline ScottinCrimea

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2007, 09:58:50 AM »
Any time we make a comment either good or bad we are making a judgement base on our own experience or opinion. I really don't see anything wrong with that.

Offline I/O

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2007, 11:28:41 AM »
And moral / ethical judgments are exactly what should be avoided in this venture and on this board. 

BC, That IMO is utter BS.

I/O

Offline macman

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Re: WMVM Love by conveyor???
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2007, 07:59:12 AM »
THANKS to all who put thier opinions on here.  While I read the TR in question and thought GOOD GRIEF what a warrior - I couldn't have done it personally; however, I have been struggling with this issue in my own heart and mind wondering what my RW contact would think.  In fact, I wish to discuss it with her next phone call.


c y'all

BTW - I will certainly do a trip report. These actually help w/o some of the particulars most likely.

 

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