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Author Topic: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences  (Read 121124 times)

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Offline GQBlues

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #200 on: July 22, 2014, 02:31:45 PM »
Since they won't divulge anything more beyond this rather obtuse admission, considering the ejaculations of rubbish proclamation prior, understand the complexities of global regime changes and politically-driven intervention we all live under.

This reeks of tit-for-tat the world doesn't have a need to know.

Send the fcoking monies to Gaza instead. We can at least know it's being used for a good cause.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 02:34:11 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #201 on: July 22, 2014, 03:04:57 PM »
LMAO!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 03:14:24 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Gator

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #202 on: July 22, 2014, 03:22:29 PM »


Looks like the USA is backing off it's earlier statements!  I wonder why? This is a rather odd thing to come out right now. 



This is not news.  It changes nothing.

I stated last week that rebels, not Russians,  were likely to have fired the missile that downed MH 17.  My basis for that conclusion is because if trained Russians were operating the missile battery, they would have recognized MH 17 as a passenger plane and never targeted it.


What have we learned recently?   The US has provided information showing the missile that hit MH 17 was fired from rebel controlled area.  We have always known that Russia has been supporting and arming the rebels since the onset of the conflict.  We have learned that support included providing missile batteries to the rebels.  We have learned that there are no other plausible sources for the rebels to obtain missiles.


I doubt if we will ever know the identity of the individual separatist who pulled the trigger.  Perhaps he sleeps with the fishes.   Nor will we know the specific instructions given by the chain of command if any.   Perhaps the operators had carte blanche.  This should not be unexpected given that the rebels are not as centrally organized and as thoroughly trained as modern armies.

The US is not backing off.  Russia is just as complicit as before.  It is the same as providing alcohol to a minor. 

Offline Gator

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #203 on: July 22, 2014, 03:25:00 PM »
FT,  Do you see any reason why the US should not escalate its sanctions against Russia?

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #204 on: July 22, 2014, 03:37:45 PM »
In retrospect, I agree with what you said...especially when you put it in the context of the other outrageous regime change maneuvers...this will hopefully lesson the money we can give for other things...and it is probably be spent for pure good...


Just had a premonition regarding these silly monies giveaway..Note the dates of June 7, 2014.

Quote
The United States is committed to supporting Ukraine's democratic reforms, economic development, and sovereignty and territorial integrity.  Following Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko’s discussions with President Obama on June 4 in Warsaw, Vice President Joe Biden announced on June 7 an additional $48 million in assistance to help the Ukrainian Government conduct key reforms, build law enforcement capacity, and strengthen national unity....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/06/07/fact-sheet-us-assistance-ukraine


Quote
Vice President Joe Biden’s visit Saturday (June 7th) to Ukraine in support of the country's new democratic government is renewing concerns about his youngest son being hired by a Ukraine company promoting energy independence from Moscow...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/08/ukrainian-energy-firm-hires-biden-son-as-lawyer/
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #205 on: July 22, 2014, 03:51:20 PM »
US blames Russia for MH17:




US blames Syria for Sarin gas:



 :ROFL:
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 03:53:39 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline fathertime

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #206 on: July 22, 2014, 03:53:39 PM »
FT,  Do you see any reason why the US should not escalate its sanctions against Russia?


Hey Gator,


I don't support the current weak sanctions, so yes I don't think we should be escalating sanctions.




Fathertime!   
This is not news.  It changes nothing.

I stated last week that rebels, not Russians,  were likely to have fired the missile that downed MH 17.  My basis for that conclusion is because if trained Russians were operating the missile battery, they would have recognized MH 17 as a passenger plane and never targeted it.


Although you stated that, I seem to recall the mainstream news promoting who they believed was the trigger man and I believe they were convinced he was a Russian.  Of Ukraine is still insisting it was a Russian officer, as this article states today.   I don't trust much that comes out of our 'representatives' mouths anymore...I guess that is a consequence of their incompetence and what I perceive as daily deceit. 


http://kdvr.com/2014/07/22/ukraine-says-russian-officer-pushed-the-button-to-shoot-down-malaysia-airlines-plane/


Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Gator

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #207 on: July 22, 2014, 04:01:24 PM »
Let's add Borodai

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Borodai

and Antiufeev (googe translate required)

http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Antiufeev

Those are the three key leaders of the terrorists.  Not one is ethnically Ukrainian.  Not one has ever been a resident of Ukraine.  Curiously, all have held government positions, in the Russian FSB/GRU/military.   Is this some sort of bizarre coincidence?  Ukrainian propaganda?

One of these three barbarians, Budokai, was interviewed by CNN.  Speaking of bizarre, you can see one of the more bizarre facial expressions near the middle of this link:   

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/22/the-eye-rolling-russian-rebel-at-the-center-of-the-malaysian-airlines-investigation/
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 04:03:18 PM by Gator »

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #208 on: July 22, 2014, 04:15:30 PM »
China, of all places, actually look very good in this event in light of the recent announcement by US Intelligence...

China had been very critical of the western nations for  acting like a lynch mob  immediately blaming Russia despite the absence of hard evidence...

Quote
"The real culprit to blame, in fact, is the chaotic situation in Ukraine following the Crimea crisis,. "The Western countries have been active in advocating and supporting the 'democratic revolution' in Ukraine, so as to lure the country to become the frontier outpost of the West's geopolitical expansion. Ukraine has paid a huge price."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101852007#.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 04:24:02 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline calmissile

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #209 on: July 22, 2014, 06:10:39 PM »


Looks like the USA is backing off it's earlier statements!  I wonder why? This is a rather odd thing to come out right now. 


US: No evidence of direct Russian link to plane
WASHINGTON (AP) — Senior U.S. intelligence officials say they have no evidence of direct Russian government involvement in the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17...........

http://news.yahoo.com/us-no-evidence-direct-russian-plane-210210006--politics.html

Fathertime!  

Lets be a little more honest about your sensational headline.   Here is what was said in the article....

"WASHINGTON (AP) — Senior U.S. intelligence officials say they have no evidence of direct Russian government involvement in the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

They say the passenger jet was likely felled by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine and that Russia "created the conditions" for the downing by arming the separatists.

The officials briefed reporters Tuesday under ground rules that their names not be used in discussing intelligence related to last week's air disaster, which killed 298 people.

They said they did not know if any Russians were present at the missile launch, and they wouldn't say that the missile crew was trained in Russia.

A senior official said the most likely explanation was the plane was shot down by mistake."
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #210 on: July 22, 2014, 07:28:22 PM »
I took a quick peek at the comments posted in yahoo's report. Good to see some sane, non-premature ejaculative Americans still prevail here, LOL.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Gator

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #211 on: July 22, 2014, 08:54:09 PM »

I don't support the current weak sanctions, so yes I don't think we should be escalating sanctions.


In effect you would give Putin a free hand to accomplish his broad goals regardless of national sovereign rights.  In contrast, many of us feel Putin is the Stalinist of our days. 





Quote
Although you stated that, I seem to recall the mainstream news promoting who they believed was the trigger man and I believe they were convinced he was a Russian. 

I do not recall CNN or BBC stating such.  They raised the question of how could the rebels operate the Buk battery.  Assuming it was an accident, a trained Russian would not have targeted a passenger jet so I must assume it was not a Russian but a rebel.


Quote
Of Ukraine is still insisting it was a Russian officer, as this article states today.
 


The Ukrainian press IMO is not much  better than the Russian press, yet I am in no position to judge their credibility, or lack thereof. 


Quote
I don't trust much that comes out of our 'representatives' mouths anymore...I guess that is a consequence of their incompetence and what I perceive as daily deceit. 

I agree.  However, in many cases the basic facts and circumstances are compelling.  In this case the preponderance of the evidence points to the rebels as the culprits.  Most important, the rebels would not exist as a viable force without Russian leadership, arms, manpower, and other support. 

Offline fathertime

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #212 on: July 22, 2014, 09:22:27 PM »
In effect you would give Putin a free hand to accomplish his broad goals regardless of national sovereign rights.  In contrast, many of us feel Putin is the Stalinist of our days. 




Hey ol'e Gator! Since you asked, I will give you my take:


I sensed early on this endeavor was going to be ‘near and dear’ to Russia and they aren't going to back down this time…it has been clear that every time sanctions are imposed/increased, Russia has escalated further….they have already calculated the sanctions in and accept them….sanctions aren't going to work, arming Ukrainians or even threatening to do so is going to spark a full scale Russian invasion as they will show they are not taking any crap from the West in their backyard….I believe the only way Russia will be stopped by the west is to face off with them militarily, full scale, and Gawd willing that isn't going to happen….So it would have been better for Ukraine to have negotiated early on, and accepted the idea of a federated Ukraine, not a big deal in the whole scheme of things..Is it?…


It is ridiculous for blowhards like Kerry to condescendingly demand that Russia tell the Russian Separatists  to be nice and stop. Why would we think that Russia would do something against their own interests? We often make these demands, but this time we get the finger in return.   As time goes on, I suspect that Russia will only demand more and more, not less and less….the USA should not have led Ukraine on as if we were going to really do something, because that has emboldened Poroshenko into talking tough and left the country in a bad spot….they called up tens of 1000’s of reserves today so maybe they are going to try to take care of this themselves which is what they should have done all along...maybe that will work, but it could be bloody...and I think they will have problems forevermore in those Eastern regions.   
 
People have been mentally masturbating that Putin has stepped on his dick, when the reality is that it could be Poroshenko’s head that winds up on a stick.  I’d still like to know what was said when the leaders spoke with each other…what exactly were the Russian Separatists/Russia demanding?


Overall Gator, we (the USA) can put our money where our big mouth is and go to full scale war…or we can shut the Christ up and watch Russia do what they want (Just like we have been doing around the world)…that is the way I see it, those are the options!   I vote for us to stay out, in part because we have NO leg to stand on given all the worldwide muckraking we have been involved with….If you believe Putin is Stalin and you think it is good to intervene further then lets hear your case!  For better or worse, I've made mine!   :D [size=78%]  [/size][/size][size=78%] [/size]



Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #213 on: July 23, 2014, 03:49:40 AM »

Hey ol'e Gator! Since you asked, I will give you my take:

...I believe the only way Russia will be stopped by the west is to face off with them militarily, full scale, and Gawd willing that isn't going to happen….So it would have been better for Ukraine to have negotiated early on, and accepted the idea of a federated Ukraine, not a big deal in the whole scheme of things..Is it?…

Fathertime!

What on earth have you been drinking?  Why should a sovereign country (thanks, Doll) accept another country's suggestion of how its constitution and internal government should be changed?  "Not a big deal?"  Get over yourself, Fathertime - or perhaps try to convince everyone that Southern California, Texas and New Mexico should secede from the rest of the USA and rejoin Mexico, or some other such nonsense.

Offline fathertime

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #214 on: July 23, 2014, 06:03:02 AM »
What on earth have you been drinking?  Why should a sovereign country (thanks, Doll) accept another country's suggestion of how its constitution and internal government should be changed?  "Not a big deal?"  Get over yourself, Fathertime - or perhaps try to convince everyone that Southern California, Texas and New Mexico should secede from the rest of the USA and rejoin Mexico, or some other such nonsense.


What I’m going to be drinking will be some morning tea shortly.  Gator asked my viewpoint so I gave it.  This isn’t about ‘me’ so I’m not sure why you tried to make it out that way or why you are crying about Ukraine negotiating since that may be there best option, or mentioning S. CA going to Mexico.  That is apples to oranges, my comments only pertain to Ukraine and Russia.  No one said you have to agree with it.  Of course Ukraine is a sovereign country, but clearly that doesn't matter to Russia.  We shall see what happens if there is no negotiation. There is other options, but they don’t look good.    Perhaps you feel that you have some better ideas.  I would like to hear them, if you dare....

Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline AC

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #215 on: July 23, 2014, 06:29:44 AM »

What I’m going to be drinking will be some morning tea shortly.  Gator asked my viewpoint so I gave it.  This isn’t about ‘me’ so I’m not sure why you tried to make it out that way or why you are crying about Ukraine negotiating since that may be there best option, or mentioning S. CA going to Mexico.  That is apples to oranges, my comments only pertain to Ukraine and Russia.  No one said you have to agree with it.  Of course Ukraine is a sovereign country, but clearly that doesn't matter to Russia.  We shall see what happens if there is no negotiation. There is other options, but they don’t look good.    Perhaps you feel that you have some better ideas.  I would like to hear them, if you dare....

Fathertime! 

Sadly this is the blunt truth.  I was contemplating Ukraine this morning and I've begun to think that it's cursed.  Perhaps Russia and Ukraine deserve each other.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 06:32:27 AM by AC »

Offline Gator

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #216 on: July 23, 2014, 08:24:45 AM »
….If you believe Putin is Stalin and you think it is good to intervene further then lets hear your case!

Russia is strongly implicated in the downing of MH 17.  Putin is a strong dictator and could have done anything in the wake of the loss of 298 innocent lives.  What he did was deny any responsibility.  Worse, he exhibited no humanity.   And his proxy warriors, the pro-separatist rebels, were barbaric.   Yes, Putin is a bad guy. 

Quote
Overall Gator, we (the USA) can put our money where our big mouth is and go to full scale war…or we can shut the Christ up and watch Russia do what they want (Just like we have been doing around the world)…that is the way I see it, those are the options! 



Too black and white for me.  Neither option is good IMO. 

Engaging in military combat would be horrible because Putin impresses me as someone who would fight to the bitter end.

Doing nothing will allow SE Ukraine to become the next Crimea because it is apparent to me that Putin will not allow the pro-separatist rebels to lose.  They are his proxy.  He will send in unlimited mercenary troops with even more and better weapons.  Some might say that this is good - let Russia pick up the tab for improving this economically depressed area.  EU and Ukraine could then focus their resources on the core of Ukraine.  However,  I feel SE Ukraine should not become a part of Russia IF indeed half of the local citizens support Ukraine.  And there is the matter of sovereign rights which should be considered sacred in a modern world. 


The world is grey, and there is much that can be done between your two options.  Jone wrote an excellent post today and I agree with much of what he had to say.

  http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17806.msg372034#msg372034



I believe it is best if America enacts stronger and stronger economic sanctions.   If Russian citizens and Putin's fat cat friends feel some economic pain, Putin's popularity will decline.   How far will it decline?  Putin will do something to prevent any major decline knowing if he is removed from office he will spend the rest of his life in jail for corruption.  The question is: What will he do?


Quote
I vote for us to stay out, in part because we have NO leg to stand on given all the worldwide muckraking we have been involved with….

Just because we made mistakes in the past is not a reason to stay out of this conflict.  America is too large to hide from a Putin.   

We can not do this alone.   If EU does not participate, we still should tighten the screws even though the sanctions will not be as effective.  Maybe the EU will see this as a watershed event and accelerate its weaning from Russian energy.  I watched the return of the victims' bodies to the Netherlands.  The Dutch are feeling pain. 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 08:28:28 AM by Gator »

Offline fathertime

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #217 on: July 23, 2014, 08:58:00 AM »
Hey gator,  thanks for engaging.

I dont think the sanctions even if ramped up are going to make any difference.   I believe thet will actually embolden Russia.

I don't see Putin being pressured from his citizens or Europe.  I believe large portions of Europe tacitly support Russia in a conflict with the US.  You can read what some of our European fellow posters are writing...they are not alone.  I really don't blame them. Tge USA is not perceived as good as some people think it should be. What you called past mistakes were not small and have not been forgotten by a lot of people.   I continue to hold that we have to let this one go, not because we want to but because we pretty much have to due to the totality of circumstances. There will be another time and another place.  I know it is hard to swallow for some.

Fathertime!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Gator

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #218 on: July 23, 2014, 09:48:42 AM »

I don't see Putin being pressured from his citizens or Europe. 


Europe sends huge amount of money to Russia for energy.   Very little trickles down to the people and is concentrated among the wealthy Russians.    The wealthy have longed invested much in Europe in the form of luxuries:  London townhouses, yachts  and the like.  Most of their money was reinvested in Russia. 

Because of Putin's actions, CNBC says the wealthy Russians are becoming more hesitant about investing their money in an aggressor Russia, perceiving it as risky.  They are starting to invest more of their core assets in international businesses rather than Russian enterprises.  If so, this will have a huge negative effect on the Russian economy.   And that my friend is difficult to turn around without limited freedoms.   


Quote
I believe large portions of Europe tacitly support Russia in a conflict with the US.  You can read what some of our European fellow posters are writing...


What drives that choice to support Russia?  If Europeans prefer to be bedfellows with Putin, that is their choice.  I hope it is a free choice based on moral values and not because they are energy slaves,  or whores seeking Russian money, or worst, pansy asses.   Did I just say US moral values vs. Russia's moral values!

BTW  any US conflict with Russia will not be large.  The Russian economy is the size of what, Italy?  And our relative trade with Russia is small.   Our sanctions will hurt Russia more than it hurts us.


Quote
Understandable.  they are not alone.  I really don't blame them.


That makes as much sense as the following:

 
1. Many contend America is greedy - yet half of the population is subsidized.
 
2. Half of the population is subsidized - yet they think they are victims.
 
3. They think they are victims - yet their representatives run the government.
 
4. Their representatives run the government - yet the poor keep getting poorer.

5. The poor keep getting poorer - yet they have things that people in other countries only dream about.
 
6. They have things that people in other countries only dream about - yet they want America to be more like those other countries

Offline Muzh

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #219 on: July 23, 2014, 02:33:40 PM »
What on earth have you been drinking?  Why should a sovereign country (thanks, Doll) accept another country's suggestion of how its constitution and internal government should be changed? "Not a big deal?"  Get over yourself, Fathertime - or perhaps try to convince everyone that Southern California, Texas and New Mexico should secede from the rest of the USA and rejoin Mexico, or some other such nonsense.


Only in his own little fantasy world.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Misha

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #220 on: July 23, 2014, 02:57:38 PM »


The US is not backing off.  Russia is just as complicit as before.  It is the same as providing alcohol to a minor. 


Yes. More a question IMVHO of giving Putin a final opportunity to save face, cut off ties with the terrorists he fostered and armed.

Offline fathertime

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #221 on: July 23, 2014, 03:18:00 PM »
Europe sends huge amount of money to Russia for energy.   Very little trickles down to the people and is concentrated among the wealthy Russians.    The wealthy have longed invested much in Europe in the form of luxuries:  London townhouses, yachts  and the like.  Most of their money was reinvested in Russia. 

Because of Putin's actions, CNBC says the wealthy Russians are becoming more hesitant about investing their money in an aggressor Russia, perceiving it as risky.  They are starting to invest more of their core assets in international businesses rather than Russian enterprises.  If so, this will have a huge negative effect on the Russian economy.   And that my friend is difficult to turn around without limited freedoms.   



What drives that choice to support Russia?  If Europeans prefer to be bedfellows with Putin, that is their choice.  I hope it is a free choice based on moral values and not because they are energy slaves,  or whores seeking Russian money, or worst, pansy asses.   Did I just say US moral values vs. Russia's moral values!

BTW  any US conflict with Russia will not be large.  The Russian economy is the size of what, Italy?  And our relative trade with Russia is small.   Our sanctions will hurt Russia more than it hurts us.
 



I don't think sanctions are working or are going to work.....Europe will not unify...and Russia  could survive through other sympathetic partners.   


I actually do think it would hurt the US economy...it already may have in the longer run...BRICS has been galvanized and that is likely to do nothing but harm us.  Much of South America is being courted by China...since they still have money, while we bungle ours on failed foreign wars/interventions. 


If sanctions won't work and going to war is off the table...then Ukraine negotiating with the Russian Separatists and Russia is perhaps the best option...or Ukraine can go ahead and send their entire army in there and try to drive them off.


That makes as much sense as the following:

 
1. Many contend America is greedy - yet half of the population is subsidized.
 
2. Half of the population is subsidized - yet they think they are victims.
 
3. They think they are victims - yet their representatives run the government.
 
4. Their representatives run the government - yet the poor keep getting poorer.

5. The poor keep getting poorer - yet they have things that people in other countries only dream about.
 
6. They have things that people in other countries only dream about - yet they want America to be more like those other countries

 


Well Gator I really don't see how these little serious of statements pertains to the fact that a % of Europeans would support Russia over us in a conflict. I understand why they would, as we are perceived as being aggressors.


Fathertime! 





I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Muzh

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #222 on: July 23, 2014, 05:59:34 PM »



I don't think sanctions are working or are going to work.....Europe will not unify...and Russia  could survive through other sympathetic partners.   


Fathertime!


LMFAO


You also thought it was a win-win situation.


290 dead later and I'm still waiting for at least a 2 minute penalty.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline tfcrew

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #223 on: July 23, 2014, 06:44:38 PM »
   Very little trickles down to the people and is concentrated among the wealthy Russians.     
You mean kind of like the Czars?

Quote
yet they want America to be more like those other countries
Obama does.
America was founded on the basis that people wanted to get away from Europe.
Now we have an outfit that wants to return to that way.
~There is no one more blind than those who refuse to see and none more deaf as those who will not listen~
~Think about the intelligence of the average person and then realize that half of the people are even more stupid than that~

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #224 on: July 23, 2014, 06:49:49 PM »
interesting read below
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/23/us-ukraine-crisis-commander-exclusive-idUSKBN0FS1V920140723

Related TopicsWorld »
Russia »
DONETSK Ukraine (Reuters) - A powerful Ukrainian rebel leader has confirmed that pro-Russian separatists had an anti-aircraft missile of the type Washington says was used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and it could have originated in Russia.

In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system and said it could have been sent back subsequently to remove proof of its presence.



SX
Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

 

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