Ideal age to wed?

[Daveman]

...
.So the premise presented here is false.

Which premise is that? Naturally a larger pool of available single women should also bring a higher probability of finding compatibility. For me it boils down to:

No tatooes
No piercings other than ears
No religious zealotry (preference for agnosticism}
No feminist political ideology (equality of rights, not the religious ferver of the near religious ideology)

Those  meeting even those basic criteria certainly may be found in the west, but those four qualities eliminate a very large swath of the available females.

[Boethius]

Tattoos is very much a generational thing.  Same with piercings.  Tattoos, incidentally, are quite popular among UW.


Religion is a personal preference.  There are, in fact, many religious Ukrainians.  They are far more apt to attend church weekly than Canadian Ukrainians, for example.  I don't know any Ukrainians here as refugees that do not attend church every week.  Their arrival has breathed new life into Ukrainian churches.


So you don't believe women are equal to men?  Good to know.


Trench, you are very mistaken.  I lived in Ukraine.  I can think of six men, off the top of my head, whose wives were cheating on them.  I can think of four whose former wives were alcoholics.  I have seen this now over four generations.  The divorce rate in Ukraine is higher than in most Western countries, and it's not all due to alcoholism. 


The fact that women can support themselves should be applauded, not viewed as a negative because some guy can't "compete" to find a woman who will be completely reliant on his whims and "largesse" (which face it, in your case, is virtually nil).


The reality is that people are pretty much the same all over the world.  Unless you pluck a woman from a country where they are completely oppressed (such as many Muslim countries), the same dynamics apply
 over time.

[Trenchcoat]

Tattoos is very much a generational thing.  Same with piercings.  Tattoos, incidentally, are quite popular among UW.


Religion is a personal preference.  There are, in fact, many religious Ukrainians.  They are far more apt to attend church weekly than Canadian Ukrainians, for example.  I don't know any Ukrainians here as refugees that do not attend church every week.  Their arrival has breathed new life into Ukrainian churches.


So you don't believe women are equal to men?  Good to know.


Trench, you are very mistaken.  I lived in Ukraine.  I can think of six men, off the top of my head, whose wives were cheating on them.  I can think of four whose former wives were alcoholics.  I have seen this now over four generations.  The divorce rate in Ukraine is higher than in most Western countries, and it's not all due to alcoholism. 


The fact that women can support themselves should be applauded, not viewed as a negative because some guy can't "compete" to find a woman who will be completely reliant on his whims and "largesse" (which face it, in your case, is virtually nil).


The reality is that people are pretty much the same all over the world.  Unless you pluck a woman from a country where they are completely oppressed (such as many Muslim countries), the same dynamics apply
 over time.

That statement there tells me everything I need to know about you Boe, it's a western statement through and through and you are a western woman. Coupled with the earlier statement of, "WW usually have the means to support themselves. So they don’t have to put up with crappy husbands" that confirms it, they are western values in those statements, thoughts and phrasing.

It's western women that diss men for not being up to what they want. It's western women who foolishly think they gain out of the feminist western world. They don't take into account that they are undermining what they want, they just see the carrot 🥕 dangled in front of their nose and the donkey 🐴 which is them follows Unfortunately many western women really are that thick and short sighted. Meanwhile the employers rub their hands with glee at all the desperate applicants begging for hard going jobs on low pay.

As I recall you are a western born Canadian woman who has lived most of her life in Canada but has lived sone time in Ukraine and has a few relatives possibly friends there. Better than nothing but hardly makes you the authority on the FSU. I'm sure someone actually from Ukraine would be a lot better source of information.

The tattoo's thing I have noticed on Fdate it usually and mostly the younger age group girls who have them, so yes a generational thing, but the older generation girls I would say they are not so popular, they tend to be the type who are the clean cut type both for themselves an what they want, so girls roughly 30s, 40s and upwards. Girls who are late teens & twenties are far more likely to have tattoos. I personally don't like women having tattoos, it's not an absolute deal breaker for me it depends on its extent but it's something I'm not keen on, it often detracts rather than elevates in my view.

[Boethius]

You obviously have not heard what UW say about men.  I have.


I have more than "a few" relatives in Ukraine.  I also have relatives in Russia.  A few are currently sitting in the EU during the war.  A few have returned despite the war.  Some never left. One family emigrated to Canada, and lived in my parents' home for a period before deciding to rent an apartment. 


Your problem is you assume a reality that doesn't exist.  Plus you're rather misogynistic.  That's not so unique on this forum, though not prevalent currently, given the low number of posts. 


You do NOT know Ukrainian culture.  You probably never will.  The idea that you will find a UW who does not wish to work, and is happy living on a meagre income while running a household to your satisfaction,  and who will dress exclusively the way you desire, is laughable.

Yes, I am, unabashedly, a WW. I have also been married well over 3 decades.

[Daveman]

So you don't believe women are equal to m
en?  Good to know.

Nice putting words in the mouth of your strawman. This type of argument is generally put forth in an attempt to put someone either on the defensive or shut down the other side. Doesn't work on me.

Equal rights. Also equal as in two sides the gold coin, but different as head and tail as in masculine and feminine.

Women can do what they wish. That doesn't require that I be attracted to any of them in any way nor any of them to me. Preferences and that to which we are innately attracted may vary greatly. The former can be malleable. The latter is not.

Going to church and belief in God differs from the "religious zealot" types, i.e.,the puritanical, evangelical hellfire and brimstone of this region.

[Boethius]

You're the one who posted you don't want a feminist.  Feminism is about social, economic, and political equality.  So which one of those offends you?


If "zealotry" were what you were truly trying to avoid, why add "preferably an atheist"?  In my experience, atheists are the worst in terms of zealotry.

[Trenchcoat]

You obviously have not heard what UW say about men.  I have.


I have more than "a few" relatives in Ukraine.  I also have relatives in Russia.  A few are currently sitting in the EU during the war.  A few have returned despite the war.  Some never left. One family emigrated to Canada, and lived in my parents' home for a period before deciding to rent an apartment. 


Your problem is you assume a reality that doesn't exist.  Plus you're rather misogynistic.  That's not so unique on this forum, though not prevalent currently, given the low number of posts. 


You do NOT know Ukrainian culture.  You probably never will.  The idea that you will find a UW who does not wish to work, and is happy living on a meagre income while running a household to your satisfaction,  and who will dress exclusively the way you desire, is laughable.

Yes, I am, unabashedly, a WW. I have also been married well over 3 decades.

And there we have it!!! Boe has come out of the closet as a fully westernised feminist woman!

Boe you must really hate it on here all of us misogynistic men getting over to the FSU and a taste of Freedom away from the awful western feminist world where the women have the upper hand. I bet our antics in here really jars with your feminist values, how we get with the FSW and all.

BTW, I'm not far off my goals that you stated

[Boethius]

You give yourself far too much credit, Trench.


I have been married to a Ukrainian for over 3 decades.  I have raised children with him, two of whom have successful careers (already outearning you), and one who is in university.


Do you care to compare your relationship status?


I have never been in the closet as a feminist.  I have always believed in social, economic, and political equality for women.  Only men who are "beta" males, or insecure in their masculinity, IMHO, have issues with women having equal rights.


The overwhelming majority of the men here who married FSUW are now divorced from those women.  For those that are not, I think it's great they have happy marriages that work for them.  That's what life is about - happiness, right?

[Daveman]

You're the one who posted you don't want a feminist.  Feminism is about social, economic, and political equality.  So which one of those offends you?

If "zealotry" were what you were truly trying to avoid, why add "preferably an atheist"?  In my experience, atheists are the worst in terms of zealotry.

Interesting..

Agnostics, still an atheistic position, have no interest in proselytizing in any way. We don't care about religion until those who practice it want to legislate based on their religious beliefs. I take separation of church and state seriously. Other than than, I don't care what anyone believes as long as it does not encroach on individual Liberty and rights of others. We don't think about religion at all, even remotely until it invades into our space or lives.

As far as dating feminists - I am a feminist by dictionary definition not by modern crappery. . In practice, iit has become a religion in itself with apparent tennets and dogma. Tell. Me, which of those three - social, economic, political equality do women not have? Equal opportunity not equal outcome. Do you want quotas based on sexual organs? Seems you are speaking of having an equal outcome (neo buzzword - equity) rather than opportunity. Women have equal rights and equal opportunity for those willing to seize upon it.. What more do you want?

[Boethius]

As a woman in the workforce for 4 decades, there isn’t equal opportunity. But it’s much better now than it was 2 decades ago.

[Trenchcoat]

You give yourself far too much credit, Trench.


I have been married to a Ukrainian for over 3 decades.  I have raised children with him, two of whom have successful careers (already outearning you), and one who is in university.


Do you care to compare your relationship status?


I have never been in the closet as a feminist.  I have always believed in social, economic, and political equality for women.  Only men who are "beta" males, or insecure in their masculinity, IMHO, have issues with women having equal rights.


The overwhelming majority of the men here who married FSUW are now divorced from those women.  For those that are not, I think it's great they have happy marriages that work for them.  That's what life is about - happiness, right?

I am not a straight jacket career sort of guy. I'm far more versatile than that, the sort of guy who will sit in a 'career' job and live out a dull boring existence that is no different from anyone else. Sure I may not earn as much as they do but I have advantages in other areas.

It can't be assumed that all those that divorced are unhappy while those that are married are happy, some are, some may not be. Sometimes a relationship has gone the distance it has gone and it's time for both parties to move on. I don't believe in divorce except where it is totally necessary but if both parties are happy to divorce knowing a relationship has run it's course and they want to go do other things at no fallout to any kids involved then it's possible that all are happiest in that respect.

The rights women had made relationships work the best. Now it's women just 'wanting more' that's greed. It means they don't care about those that lose out just so they have 'more'. It is a short sighted view, if you deny others to get more then sure it works for the few in the immediate term but it undermines all in the long term. The relationship dynamic is not the same, things start to fall apart. Women start to disrespect men as you do looking at them as 'crappy men'. It's not the men that are crappy it's society that has changed what they get, they get a third less pay, women get the same pay, the women have been motivated by careers and then see those men in the same position as them they then see them as the enemy competing with them for the careers they want. Happiness there? No everyone just becomes hostile to one another and see each other as the enemy cue the wonderful world of feminism lol.

[Trenchcoat]

What are Boe of course fails to understand is that the 'crappy men' weren't really crappy men at all. They had to sacrifice working all their life in order to support a family. That's why they got paid more as it was tantamount to slavery but they did it for their children and so they could have family.

What we have now as a result of this so called equality is a falling birth rate and hence an aging population. That is never good economic demographics. People without family become unmotivated at work and so productivity begins to lag, they have no real reason to be motivated to do more hours and earn more once their comfort needs are met. It's all starting to fall apart now if we look at the social scene in the west but women like Boe can't accept the failed social experiment unraveling before their very eyes.

[krimster2]

lesser men will tend to have lesser outcomes

imagine, if you will, the benefit of having a Ukrainian wife who looks like this (see pic)
who also cleans and cooks for you, and would take a bullet for you!
and operates her own businesses AND gives you THE MONEY!!!
and ALL the OTHER BENEFITS that "comes" with that...
especially that!!
not to even mention, cookies, cakes, etc

La Dolce Vita
A good Ukrainian wife is worth her weight in GOLD!
and is all you really need to live a life of quiet contentment, seated beneath the shade of your own orchard

Vinni Viddi Vicci

now, I'm erradicating Cannabis by slowly burning the crops in my hookah and laughing at the pointless futility of human existence
WOT a bucha silly buggers humans are!!!!

10 yr from now, EVERYTHING'S gonna start happening at once, the foot on the accellerator
I intend to be livin totally off-grid in a more favorable climate zone by then
but good lord, all the paperwork I gotta go through for sellin real estate here...
and I don't wanna hand out tens of thousands USD$ to RE agents for filling out a couple of forms
plus all the hassle of "transferring residence" to avoid capital gains tax

money always sucks the chill out of everything...

note: there's now leprousy and malaria being reported on the east coast of the USA!
and this is in addition to other new mosquito born diseases like West Nile virus and Vibrio flesh eating bacteria, and sand fleas are spreading a skin parasite in Texas
all of these diseases are GROWING!!!

in Costa Rica, malaria prevention drugs in little white packets are sold for super cheap prices "over the counter" in every store
one of the ingediants is doxycycline, an antibiotic that also kills off the other harmful bacteria you ingest there, until your body gets used to it and adapts
but in the USA, these REALLY CHEAP drugs will end up costing a LOT more than in Costa Rica!!

and in Costa Rica I can find fresh Coca Mate leaves in a lot of markets
though no where near as good as Bolivia's + take Russians to see Potosi and watch them all pass-out!!!

meanwhile, Russians and Israelis are "guilt-trippin" me about "not fighting"
but holy crap, the sheetstorm I'd be in the middle of right now, if I went back to either Russia or Israel...
neither can outright conscript me, but they would find "OTHER" ways to coerce me

I seriously do NOT wanna work anymore on anything for anyone
I hope the next generation has as much fun as I did
but I doubt it very much...

[Boethius]

The rights women had made relationships work the best. Now it's women just 'wanting more' that's greed. It means they don't care about those that lose out just so they have 'more'. It is a short sighted view, if you deny others to get more then sure it works for the few in the immediate term but it undermines all in the long term. The relationship dynamic is not the same, things start to fall apart. Women start to disrespect men as you do looking at them as 'crappy men'. It's not the men that are crappy it's society that has changed what they get, they get a third less pay, women get the same pay, the women have been motivated by careers and then see those men in the same position as them they then see them as the enemy competing with them for the careers they want. Happiness there? No everyone just becomes hostile to one another and see each other as the enemy cue the wonderful world of feminism lol.

Sure.  They want things like not being beaten by their partners.  Or not being cheated on.  Or being treated like an equal, rather than his mother (picking up his socks, doing his laundry, etc.).  These are things women should just put up with, right?


Trench, you have never had an intimate relationship, let alone a marriage.  So you can't really come here spouting your theories on what "works" and what "should" happen in a marriage.  Come back when you've been married a decade.


BTW, falling birth rates are because it's too expensive to raise children, and there isn't reasonable daycare for working mothers.  Make raising a family an affordable priority in society, and those issues would disappear.

[krimster2]

what kinda "state sponsored" child care is there in Canada and UK for a single mother?
would a poor working mother get some kinda state provided support...

is there some kinda "racial element" to this type of welfare in the UK and Canada
there IS in the USA!!!!

[Boethius]

Currently, there is $10 a day daycare for children 6 and under.  It’s not dependent on income.

[Trenchcoat]

what kinda "state sponsored" child care is there in Canada and UK for a single mother?
would a poor working mother get some kinda state provided support...

is there some kinda "racial element" to this type of welfare in the UK and Canada
there IS in the USA!!!!

In the UK for childcare:

You can get up to £500 every 3 months (up to £2,000 a year) for each of your children to help with the costs of childcare. This goes up to £1,000 every 3 months if a child is disabled (up to £4,000 a year).

http://www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare

That's just to take the kid off your hands sound part of the day it may include playschool till they get to school, etc.

In addition you can qualify for child tax credits what used to be called child benefit here. That's a weekly allowance that basically pays for the basics a child needs, food, clothing, etc.


Child Benefit rates
Rates (£ per week)     2022 to 2023
Eldest or only child           £21.80
Other children.                      £14.45

Child Benefit rates
Rates (£ per week)   2023 to 2024
Eldest or only child           £24.00                
Other children.                 £15.90            

That's gets paid up until the child is 16 I believe which is when it ends. As you can see it goes up with inflation every year. While it's great that children are supported whatever here of course it also can do away with the man's role. Hence the number of single parent families here, nearly all with the Mother. It's still guys paying for it, the gov will tax single guys like me along with the rest of the population to support Mothers who are self centred and want it all their own way, enable that behaviour and we're heading down into the abyss of misery in the future perhaps 10 years from now when those kids grow up and many will be more messed up, up top than even today's kids from it all. Time to keep indoors and move to homeworking when that happens!

http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-and-allowances-tax-credits-child-benefit-and-guardians-allowance/tax-credits-child-benefit-and-guardians-allowance

Incidentally, as I guess many are aware here, the child benefits you get in Ukraine are a lot less and for far shorter time than in the UK, first few years I believe. After that it's down to the guy as far as I know and of course extra economic strain my kick in so not helping relationships. Here it may not be a fortune you get but it will pay the basics for the child along the way and anything else it's down to the parents if there is more than one. However, normally Single Mother's claim many other benefits, Universal Credit, Housing Benefit, etc so they are normally reasonably well off and want for nothing.

I'm pretty sure there is no racial element to any benefit in the UK. The politically correct crowd would be jumping for joy at something to jump all over it giving their sense of self righteousness a real good soothing that would get them high for quite some time.

[Trenchcoat]

Sure.  They want things like not being beaten by their partners.  Or not being cheated on.  Or being treated like an equal, rather than his mother (picking up his socks, doing his laundry, etc.).  These are things women should just put up with, right?


Trench, you have never had an intimate relationship, let alone a marriage.  So you can't really come here spouting your theories on what "works" and what "should" happen in a marriage.  Come back when you've been married a decade.


BTW, falling birth rates are because it's too expensive to raise children, and there isn't reasonable daycare for working mothers.  Make raising a family an affordable priority in society, and those issues would disappear.

Both me not being able to get a relationship and the fall in birth rates is solely down to the greed grabbing of women 'wanting it all'. Even when they get it all they are not happy. They then complain as to why there are no suitable men for them that also 'have it all'

I wish I could lend them some of my high IQ ability for them to work it out I really do. Sadly as much as I might try to explain to them where the system is falling down for them and most people they just can't seem to grasp the basic logic of it all, shame it really is quite easy to understand.

Women like a good spanking it sets them up for the day! They feel most secure when they know their place and are put in their place if needs be. That is the natural state of a content woman now an almost unknown sighting in the west. Instead listen to the sound of the modern western woman bemoaning about her lot and how she can't find the right man. They have been brought up all their life under western feminism and are unaware that their issue is a psychological one not a material one

It would be nice if I am remembered as noteworthy as Sigmund Freud here for all my hard work explaining the mechanics of this all to the unenlightened western female feminist crowd

[Boethius]

Both me not being able to get a relationship and the fall in birth rates is solely down to the greed grabbing of women 'wanting it all'. Even when they get it all they are not happy. They then complain as to why there are no suitable men for them that also 'have it all'

Laughable. How many women did you try to date when young?  You are full of excuses. You should look at yourself as that’s where the problem lies. It’s not external.

I wish I could lend them some of my high IQ ability for them to work it out I really do. Sadly as much as I might try to explain to them where the system is falling down for them and most people they just can't seem to grasp the basic logic of it all, shame it really is quite easy to understand.

Haha. Sure.

Women like a good spanking it sets them up for the day! They feel most secure when they know their place and are put in their place if needs be. That is the natural state of a content woman now an almost unknown sighting in the west. Instead listen to the sound of the modern western woman bemoaning about her lot and how she can't find the right man. They have been brought up all their life under western feminism and are unaware that their issue is a psychological one not a material one

I don’t hear or read about women bemoaning the lack of men. The only things I read about the “lack of relationships” is from men who can’t face reality cough cough.

[krimster2]

average working person doesn't really qualify for this kind of aid in the USA, but you do get a tax credit

when I had my kids in silicon valley, average pre-school day care cost was arround $1,500 per month per child
I was lucky that my wife didn't work, so she could be a "stay at home" mom
then I made the decision to make my business a "home business" instead of having a separate office
so we both could spend more time with our daughters

when we moved to Crimea, my daughters had HUGE opportunities in the Russian Media world, and my oldest did some TV acting
now they're all refusniks livin in the USA keepin their heads down..."ain't no Russians or Israelis here, go away!!"
so with them livin with me again, my home is bein over-run by a legion of foreign "draft dodgers"

gettin young Russian men to say, "Hey ya'll doin?" until "they get it right", is my sole amusement in life (sigh)

by appearances, we aim to appear as ALL AMERICAN Moonshine and watemelon rine, we dress in Jeans and flannel shirts and wear coyboy hats - yeee-haaaa
nyet, I mean NO, ain't no need for anybody in my family to register as a foreign agent tovarisch

none of ya'll have figured out yet what's gonna happen at the end of next year
but the phrase "letters from Moscow" will be relevant
surprised mail still works OK!!!

people in CIA and FBI gettin nervous
cuz all kinda warnin lights are blinkin
and don't even mention Mexico

October 2024 = OICHEN BOLSHOI SURPRIZE!!
SLOVO!!

Putin is Biden his time

[Trenchcoat]

average working person doesn't really qualify for this kind of aid in the USA, but you do get a tax credit

when I had my kids in silicon valley, average pre-school day care cost was arround $1,500 per month per child
I was lucky that my wife didn't work, so she could be a "stay at home" mom
then I made the decision to make my business a "home business" instead of having a separate office
so we both could spend more time with our daughters

when we moved to Crimea, my daughters had HUGE opportunities in the Russian Media world, and my oldest did some TV acting
now they're all refusniks livin in the USA keepin their heads down..."ain't no Russians or Israelis here, go away!!"
so with them livin with me again, my home is bein over-run by a legion of foreign "draft dodgers"

gettin young Russian men to say, "Hey ya'll doin?" until "they get it right", is my sole amusement in life (sigh)

by appearances, we aim to appear as ALL AMERICAN Moonshine and watemelon rine, we dress in Jeans and flannel shirts and wear coyboy hats - yeee-haaaa
nyet, I mean NO, ain't no need for anybody in my family to register as a foreign agent tovarisch

none of ya'll have figured out yet what's gonna happen at the end of next year
but the phrase "letters from Moscow" will be relevant
surprised mail still works OK!!!

people in CIA and FBI gettin nervous
cuz all kinda warnin lights are blinkin
and don't even mention Mexico

October 2024 = OICHEN BOLSHOI SURPRIZE!!
SLOVO!!

Putin is Biden his time

How come your daughter's had huge opportunities in the media world when they moved to Crimea Krim?

Are the Russian Draft Dodgers part of your clan? Is it a kind of arrangement like the Free Masons have, a kind of you do each other favours as and where you can?

[Trenchcoat]

Laughable. How many women did you try to date when young?  You are full of excuses. You should look at yourself as that’s where the problem lies. It’s not external.

Haha. Sure.

I don’t hear or read about women bemoaning the lack of men. The only things I read about the “lack of relationships” is from men who can’t face reality cough cough.

Women in the west change the game then turn the blame on the men who lose out as their own fault while they make off with their unfair cut off society believing it will work out. It's not though is it? Incels running amok, dudes on zombie drugs, vast numbers of lonely people both men and women, not high enough birth rate, etc, etc. The chickens are coming home to roost Boe and it's going to hit those feminists behind it all in the end too.

If I had grown up in Ukraine the Ukrainian version of me would have dated a lot and had plenty of options. Just dating Ukrainian women you can tell the difference, they are a lot less up their arse like women are in the west. A far more balanced dating situation.

[Boethius]

How would you know?  By your own admission you never dated WW.

I don’t think feminism has anything to do with the current state of relationships. I believe most of it emanates from the ubiquitousness of online porn.

[Trenchcoat]

How would you know?  By your own admission you never dated WW.

I don’t think feminism has anything to do with the current state of relationships. I believe most of it emanates from the ubiquitousness of online porn.

Well you go for an unusual argument I'll give you that, I've never heard of feminism emanating as a result of online porn. I'm sure femininism was around long before online porn. I am sure it's just to do with women being blinded by greed of wanting more and being lured that way over time while being too blind to see the pitfalls.

[Boethius]

No, not feminism. I meant the rise of incels and the changes in lifestyles.