My first experience through EM

[Surfer]

Hello everyone,

So I finally had my first experience through EM and I'd like to share it with all of you. Firstly, I want to thank all the members on this Forum who helped me throughout the process with their advises. I learned new things along the way and I am still learning.

I started my communication with her (29 years old) through EM, then we started communicating on Skype video chats (couple of times a week), daily communication on whatsapp through text. She did not smoke but drank wine a couple of times. Did not go to nightclubs, parties or bars. No language barriers. The girl spoke decent English and worked in an International company. She lived in Moscow. She was not a very social person and even told me that she is not very communicative. However, since our views matched on several topics and we had several similar interests, I decided to be patient. With time, our communication increased online and I genuinely felt attracted to her. She has a stable family (mother, father, brother) background. So, I felt that everything was going great with her. Our communication was mostly about getting to know each other, our interests, family background, childhood memories, recent happenings in the world and so on. We told each other from time to time what we liked about each other and I kept on track about my serious intentions. Then, I expressed my interest to meet her and she was pleasantly surprised.

Around 2 weeks after my communication initiated with her online, I told her that I want to meet her in real life. We agreed. The Visa process initiated. In another 3 weeks, I met her. While she looked exactly the way she appeared online, in her behavior, I could see that she was very uncomfortable, easily irritable and not very communicative. We met on a Sunday and the city center was busy. Many people around. She said it's very crowded and she doesn't like it when there are many people around. Irony is that she herself decided to meet in this place. So, our communication was short and then she said she wants to go. I asked her while leaving how different she felt the communication was in real life as compared to Internet. She said, it was quite different and it's more difficult for her to communicate in real life the first time. On Internet, she feels more comfortable and can communicate from her house. And said that she was nervous.

After reaching home, she messaged to ask how I am and said that she liked the meeting. She wanted to meet again the next day and said that she will choose a place probably a park which is more quiet and not many people around. We met again and I could see improvement in her communication. We walked around and I could see that again after a few minutes, it's like her fuel would run out.

Then our next 2 meetings were very good. More communication and she started talking more and more. Began to open up and told me that she takes time to open up to people. On the 4th day, I told her how I felt about her and expressed interest. She seemed quite happy and said 1 week is not enough to get to know each other that well to decide, we should continue meeting more. And I understood because we both were looking for a serious relationship. There was only a bit of hand holding and walking.

We met again the next day for a cruise on Moscow river (which is amazing by the way). It's a 2.5 hour cruise and the first 1 hour was going amazing. This girl really began to open up, amazing communication and I said to myself "this is the one". And things quickly turned. She ordered another cocktail (apparently a stronger one), a topic related to smoking came up. I just expressed my views on passive smoking being unhealthy. She seem to get so triggered by it and started calling me selfish (at least like 10 times), judgemental and accused me of thinking that other people who smoke are second class citizens. She said I should stop driving a car also and let the environment become better because I have problem with people smoking. I couldn't seem to understand where was she getting at with this argument. Then she said, "You should go and live in a forest where there is fresh air". And I was shocked because I never said any of that. It was almost like her putting words in my mouth. And she made a big deal out of a small statement about passive smoking. Note: the girl herself doesn't smoke. So, I could not understand why she felt so offended. And neither did I say anything bad about people who smoke. And she went on and on for another 10 minutes, arguing in a stubborn way. Spoiled the entire moment.

The first hour of the cruise was great but the second half surprised me. I just remained quiet after that. In my head I was thinking to myself "I don't think I can be with this girl because the way she argues, accuses and puts words in my mouth, so stubborn. These seem like a red flag". So, cruise got over, I walked with her to main road, thanked her for the good time, said bye and walked away.

The next day, she messaged me and asked me why I am mad at her. She sensed it because I didn't write her after that. She said that I should let her know if I want to communicate with her or not further. I politely explained her what put me off so much and she called me a sensitive person. And she said that she has no problems with my views and opinions. Then accused me of going back while she had consumed alcohol. She said it was a strange reaction from me to leave her alone there.

After I explained her again, she said sorry in a stubborn way. The next day, she contacted me and said "Selfish is not a bad  word. Everyone in this world is a selfish person. I already said sorry about it. What are you waiting for next?". And I thought to myself "This girl is way too stubborn to see how she behaved and admit that her behavior was rude.". So, I told her, that let's leave that topic and not discuss it further. Let's meet up again. We met that day in the evening. And this girl was so uptight and didn't speak a single word to initiate anything in conversation the entire time. It was me initiating conversation all the time while she would give one word responses. She was sulking way too much while pretending that everything is okay. Then she pulled out her phone and started doing something on it while I was just sitting. I waited a little more and then decided to call it quits with her. Walked with her to her car, thanked her for her time, wished her a good evening and left.

One of the things I noticed different in real life as compared to communication on Internet with her was the rudeness and cold attitude. She didn't come across as a cold person on Internet. But in real life, there were many instances where she had a rude way of replying, cold attitude. And she said several times "I don't like when there are many people around". In a park one day when there were just 3 people, she refused to go in that direction to sit saying there are people. She was not social. I am not an extrovert myself and I don't have a very social life too. But I am a warm person and very communicative with people I like.

The other thing I learned was, during initial communication on Internet I asked her about her relationship with her family and who was she closest to. For almost everything, she had an "I don't care" look on her face. She almost always came across like an emotionally disconnected person.

Anyway, once I decided this is not the right girl for me, I walked away. Was quite upset because on a few days, the communication was great, it was moving in a good direction.

She even insisted on paying for few tickets herself and didn't want me to pay. Then I made sure, I paid for all the food and drinks. So, she wasn't the type of girl who was there for money. She was a well-to-do person with her own car and house. She was responsible and punctual. Never made me wait and if she was late, apologized as well. Everything seemed great but in few situations, her attitude was really bad.

Either way, that was my experience.

I'm still in Moscow and writing this post from here. I couldn't meet any other girl through EM here. Some of them accepted interest but didn't respond to my emails. I have limited time anyway.

Of course, we all learn from experiences and I hope I learned more from this one. Especially, understanding more what I like or don't like and how to read people.

Thanks once again to everyone who was supportive on this Forum.

[msmob]

Hi Surfer

Sorry it didn't work out

For certain it was for the best.   Don't even try to figure her out or where you MAY have gone 'wrong' ... 'damaged goods'

Big cities are the best and worst places to be when you're on your own

How many days do you have left in Moscow ?

[BillyB]

She didn't come across as a cold person on Internet.

But she may not have been thrilled to communicate with you either. Girls giving guys attention doesn't mean they really like them. I've communicated with lots of women and some are absolutely thrilled when I call. I can hear the excitement in their voices. My now wife was jumping up and down in airport waving at me when we met for the first time. Find someone who is very happy to hear your voice before committing to visiting them.

I'm still in Moscow and writing this post from here. I couldn't meet any other girl through EM here. Some of them accepted interest but didn't respond to my emails. I have limited time anyway.

You told them you're in town and they didn't respond? Go to Mamba.ru. View the site in English. Contact a bunch of ladies, especially those online, and tell them you're in town. You will get dates immediately. Not all will be marriage material but you may get lucky and find a winner.

[Surfer]

Hi Surfer

Sorry it didn't work out

For certain it was for the best.   Don't even try to figure her out or where you MAY have gone 'wrong' ... 'damaged goods'

Big cities are the best and worst places to be when you're on your own

How many days do you have left in Moscow ?

Thanks for understanding. I am here for only one more day. Today, the entire day and tomorrow I have my return flight. I guess, not sufficient time but next time, I will be better prepared. I also did some research about saving money on my next visit so that I could spend more time.

[Surfer]

But she may not have been thrilled to communicate with you either. Girls giving guys attention doesn't mean they really like them. I've communicated with lots of women and some are absolutely thrilled when I call. I can hear the excitement in their voices. My now wife was jumping up and down in airport waving at me when we met for the first time. Find someone who is very happy to hear your voice before committing to visiting them.

You told them you're in town and they didn't respond? Go to Mamba.ru. View the site in English. Contact a bunch of ladies, especially those online, and tell them you're in town. You will get dates immediately. Not all will be marriage material but you may get lucky and find a winner.

I agree that it doesn't necessarily mean that she was very thrilled. However, I do remember during the time we spoke online, she would ask me a dozen times, when I am coming, how is my visa process going on. Even before I came, she had already booked the tickets for the cruise. She even made plans to go to different places. Asked my likes and dislikes. My flight arrival in Moscow was very early in the morning and she said it's not a problem for her, she offered to come there and drive me to the hotel in her own car. My flight got delayed and I spent the entire night at airport. She was awake the whole night and kept checking with me how I am or whether I ate something. So, I am quite certain she was very interested and anticipating the meeting.

And about not being so thrilled every time to talk to me, this was partly because of her personality I think. She was a very serious person, herself acknowledged that she is not very communicative, a good listener and so on.

About the girls I contacted on EM, yes, I told 2 of them that I was in Moscow in addition to the usual introduction email. They read, didn't respond. Then I thought maybe these girls think I want to quickly meet them without getting to know them. Contacted a few more girls on EM who accepted my interest. Didn't mention I was in Moscow and haven't heard back from them yet.

I'll try Mamba.ru now. Tried it before from UK and never got any success, not even a conversation. Maybe while I'm in Russia, things might look more promising

[Trenchcoat]

Should have taken note of my trip report to Lviv Surfer Yeah found the same as you - of you tell them you are in town then they will assume you are contacting many ladies - they are one of many receiving the email  - big mistake, they will nearly always fall flat.

Better as you (and I) have found is to contact them as normal, don't say you are there even if time is short as you will get there quicker that way and more will respond. Then after a few emails and a bit of rapport is beginning to grow offer to meet the one who is farthest along, then the next after that and so on. Either say you are over there on vacation and just got to surf on there one day by chance and saw her lovely profile or on business. Holiday will work well in Moscow as it's a tourist city so would be easiest fit.

Perculiar to have to do it that way I know but it's the only way that seems to reap rewards. If just one day left I think it would be a shame to waste it sat around messaging girls.  I would put this trip down to valuable  experience gained and enjoy Red Square - so much to do there, go on the shopping centre there in the big white ornate building off Red Square, it will cheer you up

[Surfer]

Should have taken note of my trip report to Lviv Surfer Yeah found the same as you - of you tell them you are in town then they will assume you are contacting many ladies - they are one of many receiving the email  - big mistake, they will nearly always fall flat.

Better as you (and I) have found is to contact them as normal, don't say you are there even if time is short as you will get there quicker that way and more will respond. Then after a few emails and a bit of rapport is beginning to grow offer to meet the one who is farthest along, then the next after that and so on. Either say you are over there on vacation and just got to surf on there one day by chance and saw her lovely profile or on business. Holiday will work well in Moscow as it's a tourist city so would be easiest fit.

Perculiar to have to do it that way I know but it's the only way that seems to reap rewards. If just one day left I think it would be a shame to waste it sat around messaging girls.  I would put this trip down to valuable  experience gained and enjoy Red Square - so much to do there, go on the shopping centre there in the big white ornate building off Red Square, it will cheer you up

Thanks a lot for your suggestions. I agree, I should not tell them that I am in town, especially on sites like EM where girls are usually looking for serious and long term relationships.

Yeah, it is afternoon time here now and I am planning to just go out, try and enjoy the city. Go for a long walk. I will look at this trip as a valuable experience gained indeed. I am sure something good might have come out of this trip even though I haven't figured out yet.

[Trenchcoat]

I think also that introverted women are the worst. I think a lot think because they can get pregnant they can just be the way they are. Can you imagine the reaction if an introverted guy brought up the 'all these people around' problem issue. Yep that's right the girl would go running, lol. I think you have had a close shave Surfer. Better to drop a girl that can't be fixed than try and make a go off it. Imagnetic if you had kids with her, there would be a good chance of them inheriting her introverted and socially awkward ways, not nice for them. Boys suffer worse since girls pass over them, in the UK they have many choices.

I myself am quite on the introverted side though know I need to be aware of how to be socially aware. I probably not as bad as some guys I can go around in crowds ok though Glastonbury type of crowds are not my scene. I've been in Moscow and the crowds did not bother me, etc however there are lots of guys that are more better socially than me. My mother sounds a lot like the girl you met, she even made the 'all these people around' complaint once when dating my father once at a country park - yep there will be it's a public attraction, lol. My father perhaps more like yourself,  warm and social. My mother is a nice and decent person and I think the girl you met probably is. I think she is probably very genuine and doesn't realise that what you say and it's affect is important in social interactions. My father tried to educate my mother on this all his life - she never really got it. Introverted women tend to be very inflexible socially and what psychologists describe as 'low social monitors' - they don't pick up on visual or spoken social cues and reactions. These are not good attributes to go through life with. Not being able to get on well with people socially (not just talking about conflict avoidance here but more making friends, forming relationships, etc) does not make for an easy life. I'm guessing the girl you met had an uneasy relationship even with her family. She probably isn't a cold person but more of a defence mechanism to shut herself down when she has been hurt. This on itself is not a great scene when out socially as it can create a bit of a scene and be pretty awkward for those in the receiving end. I think you are best of passing on her Surfer and dig in to the ol' great FSU dating raffle again

I think the not leaving her after drinking/drunk was probably a dating convention you missed - probably in your haste to get away from her

[John Gaunt]

Around 2 weeks after my communication initiated with her online, I told her that I want to meet her in real life. We agreed. The Visa process initiated. In another 3 weeks, I met her. While she looked exactly the way she appeared online, in her behavior, I could see that she was very uncomfortable, easily irritable and not very communicative. We met on a Sunday and the city center was busy. Many people around. She said it's very crowded and she doesn't like it when there are many people around. Irony is that she herself decided to meet in this place. So, our communication was short and then she said she wants to go. I asked her while leaving how different she felt the communication was in real life as compared to Internet. She said, it was quite different and it's more difficult for her to communicate in real life the first time. On Internet, she feels more comfortable and can communicate from her house. And said that she was nervous.

She wasn’t into you. One can skype and communicate at length but until you meet in person the attraction is just virtual.
When you met IRL, you didn’t measure up to her expectations.
It happens.
Move on, there’s no point mulling over the if’s and buts.
The plus side is you actually got on a plane and made the trip. Next time (if there is a next time) you will be more comfortable in your surroundings.
 On another note: there is a wealth of experience and knowledge from members on forums such as this you can tap into. Trench is not one of those you should take advice from.
His attitude to FSU dating and women, in general, is so warped and misguided you would do yourself a great disservice were  you to follow his lead.

[Surfer]

She wasn’t into you. One can skype and communicate at length but until you meet in person the attraction is just virtual.
When you met IRL, you didn’t measure up to her expectations.
It happens.
Move on, there’s no point mulling over the if’s and buts.
The plus side is you actually got on a plane and made the trip. Next time (if there is a next time) you will be more comfortable in your surroundings.
 On another note: there is a wealth of experience and knowledge from members on forums such as this you can tap into. Trench is not one of those you should take advice from.
His attitude to FSU dating and women, in general, is so warped and misguided you would do yourself a great disservice were  you to follow his lead.

You have a point and I can understand it. However, what confused me was this part.

Day #1: The meeting was kind of awkward. Lot of silence from her side and I initiated the conversation several times. Then she started talking. But she kept on feeling uneasy and said there are a lot of people around and the places are loud. She would even start walking around trying to find a quieter place. Finally, she went.

However, she initiated the conversation again, said she had a good time and arranged to meet again in a quieter place.

Day #2: Little better than Day #1 however gradually her communication went down. But towards the end, got better again. And she herself made plans for next day's meeting.

Day #3: We met in a restaurant. Amazing conversations and a great time.

and this continued with almost every day, she was showing the interest and even offering ideas what we could do the next day.

Day #6 was on the cruise, the one I described above.

So, my question is, why was this girl continuing the communication if she wasn't into me??

After Day #6, I stopped communicating with her and then she initiated communication and asked me if I want to continue communication with her or not. She apologized in a stubborn way about her behavior on the cruise and seemed a bit impatient about the next meeting.

Day #7, met again. However, this time she wouldn't talk at all. I tried communicating with her for like an hour and after that I was like, okay, let's leave it here, since she wasn't contributing to conversation at all. Once again I stopped communication with her.

Day #8, the girl just contacted me once again to ask how I am and if I want to meet her once again in the evening and say Goodbye before leaving?

I just don't understand. If a girl is not interested and she has ample opportunities to stop the communication or say directly that she isn't interested, then why is she constantly meeting or asking to meet? She even lives very far away from the center of Moscow. She lives near the Airport and I am near the city center. Every day she would drive all the way to meet me and even offer to drop me to nearest metro station.

Girls will usually make an excuse to avoid meeting again if they are not genuinely interested. Especially after an argument, if they were not interested, it's a good excuse for them to move out. But why on earth would she keep coming back?

Or maybe she absolutely does not know what she herself wants and is a confused person. She did mention during one of the Skype conversations that she has a problem in decision making and to know whether something is of her type or not.

[Surfer]

I think also that introverted women are the worst. I think a lot think because they can get pregnant they can just be the way they are. Can you imagine the reaction if an introverted guy brought up the 'all these people around' problem issue. Yep that's right the girl would go running, lol. I think you have had a close shave Surfer. Better to drop a girl that can't be fixed than try and make a go off it. Imagnetic if you had kids with her, there would be a good chance of them inheriting her introverted and socially awkward ways, not nice for them. Boys suffer worse since girls pass over them, in the UK they have many choices.

I myself am quite on the introverted side though know I need to be aware of how to be socially aware. I probably not as bad as some guys I can go around in crowds ok though Glastonbury type of crowds are not my scene. I've been in Moscow and the crowds did not bother me, etc however there are lots of guys that are more better socially than me. My mother sounds a lot like the girl you met, she even made the 'all these people around' complaint once when dating my father once at a country park - yep there will be it's a public attraction, lol. My father perhaps more like yourself,  warm and social. My mother is a nice and decent person and I think the girl you met probably is. I think she is probably very genuine and doesn't realise that what you say and it's affect is important in social interactions. My father tried to educate my mother on this all his life - she never really got it. Introverted women tend to be very inflexible socially and what psychologists describe as 'low social monitors' - they don't pick up on visual or spoken social cues and reactions. These are not good attributes to go through life with. Not being able to get on well with people socially (not just talking about conflict avoidance here but more making friends, forming relationships, etc) does not make for an easy life. I'm guessing the girl you met had an uneasy relationship even with her family. She probably isn't a cold person but more of a defence mechanism to shut herself down when she has been hurt. This on itself is not a great scene when out socially as it can create a bit of a scene and be pretty awkward for those in the receiving end. I think you are best of passing on her Surfer and dig in to the ol' great FSU dating raffle again

I think the not leaving her after drinking/drunk was probably a dating convention you missed - probably in your haste to get away from her

Thanks for sharing your point of view about women who have introvert personality and who are anti social. It's difficult with them. Although, I have seen some of the girls who are introverts, they are amazing at text based conversations and very expressive. They are good at it however in real life, they have a difficulty in sustaining conversation. And due to their own difficulties in communication, sometimes they end up giving a signal to the man that they are not interested in them. While in reality, they are themselves having a difficulty in communicating.

More than this being a problem with introvert nature, I think it has to do with someone who is not able to easily form emotional attachment with others. She doesn't seem emotionally attached to her family either.

[GenMish]

You have a point and I can understand it. However, what confused me was this part.
 Day #7, met again. However, this time she wouldn't talk at all. I tried communicating with her for like an hour and after that I was like, okay, let's leave it here, since she wasn't contributing to conversation at all. Once again I stopped communication with her.

Day #8, the girl just contacted me once again to ask how I am and if I want to meet her once again in the evening and say Goodbye before leaving?

I just don't understand. If a girl is not interested and she has ample opportunities to stop the communication or say directly that she isn't interested, then why is she constantly meeting or asking to meet? She even lives very far away from the center of Moscow. She lives near the Airport and I am near the city center. Every day she would drive all the way to meet me and even offer to drop me to nearest metro station.

Girls will usually make an excuse to avoid meeting again if they are not genuinely interested. Especially after an argument, if they were not interested, it's a good excuse for them to move out. But why on earth would she keep coming back?

Or maybe she absolutely does not know what she herself wants and is a confused person. She did mention during one of the Skype conversations that she has a problem in decision making and to know whether something is of her type or not.

I would say she is definitely interested in at least keeping an open door for the future. I would see her again.

Moscow is a big city, and it can a long long time to get to the city center. Did you offer to get her a room for the nights you were there? Or suggest staying closer to her home?

Anyways, I did all this 25 years ago, and the lady I married had each day planned, nothing was spontaneous(except for the military storming the Opera House during a play). She even left me in the dark whether she would accept my proposal after I dropped strong hints of my intentions. One day I even thought she was going through the motions as an obligation to me. But I had to keep telling myself she is spending all this time with me, and she even invited me to her home to meet her parents for a holiday dinner. On the last day when the head of the agency asked if we were engaged, I said I don't know if she will accept my proposal. The lady started laughing, and replied of course she will accept. Anyways, the business like attitude went away after we started the process for a K1 Visa...and she really warmed up

The main warning sign I see for you, is that your lady drinks and gets more difficult. The worst family member, friend, spouse etc...are those that get mean after they drink

[Trenchcoat]

I think the woman is opinionated and this no doubt comes out more as she drinks as her normally high inhibitions come down. However, what you may find if you were to get to know her more that on the quiet with you these opinionated views would be more readily expressed as you are no longer a stranger her inhibitions will be less. This as you have found out may not be great. With this lady I would not write off any bad moment as a one off or chance happening.

If you decide to meet this lady this evening I think you could likely find you get in a lot better with her again. She will probably want to salvage the situation. If you went you would probably decide you want to carry on with her if she is a lot better. So your decision whether you wish to go.

I don't know about her being interested in you. The lack of affection/intimacy, argument aside. Bear in mind a girl like her with her lacking in social skills is probably by-passed by all guys there and maybe some abroad also. So she may well have no options when it comes to men - if she's put you off a bit she has probably put off other guys.

Introverted girls and bad social skills tend to go hand in hand. Sure text and internet they can do well on but it's the day to day in person stuff they can be pretty clueless on.

I'm finding on this search that early on I tended to focus on viewing the girl I was seeing as a goer without considering her as a whole. Now I tend to see the benefit in looking around a bit.

Anyway hope you enjoy the rest of your time there. Be careful of the time over there, I found the time on my mobile was an hour or two slower than it actually was, only just caught the plane!

[Surfer]

I would say she is definitely interested in at least keeping an open door for the future. I would see her again.

Moscow is a big city, and it can a long long time to get to the city center. Did you offer to get her a room for the nights you were there? Or suggest staying closer to her home?

Anyways, I did all this 25 years ago, and the lady I married had each day planned, nothing was spontaneous(except for the military storming the Opera House during a play). She even left me in the dark whether she would accept my proposal after I dropped strong hints of my intentions. One day I even thought she was going through the motions as an obligation to me. But I had to keep telling myself she is spending all this time with me, and she even invited me to her home to meet her parents for a holiday dinner. On the last day when the head of the agency asked if we were engaged, I said I don't know if she will accept my proposal. The lady started laughing, and replied of course she will accept. Anyways, the business like attitude went away after we started the process for a K1 Visa...and she really warmed up

The main warning sign I see for you, is that your lady drinks and gets more difficult. The worst family member, friend, spouse etc...are those that get mean after they drink

Thanks for your views and I have a recent update with this woman. Which I got just a few minutes ago.

It's just ridiculous.

As you also noticed, from everything it seemed like this girl was interested too and wanted to keep a door open for the future. However, when she suggested to meet in the evening today. I told her that let's find a place to just sit and talk since it will be my last evening here. And she replied, we can rather go to some interesting place since it's your last day. So, I told her that I'm more interested in communication with her rather than just walking around and seeing new places. Even yesterday, I went with her to some place and she didn't speak anything at all. So, I didn't want to meet again just to see some place and no communication.

And to this, her reply was quite rude. She said: "I don't understand what you are waiting from me? Anyway, thank you too for your time. I tried my best. If you wanted something else from me, then I cannot give you as I told you before".

She's referring to the day when I told her that I like her and I found her very attractive, spent the evening walking around holding hands. And all she told me was: "We met only for 1 week and mostly in the evenings. So, need more time to understand each other and more communication".

Now, here's my understanding. If a girl is not interested in a man and a man gives her such strong hints about his interest in her. She could at least tell in response that she does not see him the way he sees her. She could clearly tell that she is not interested in any relation but just as a friend. Instead of continuing to meet.

This girl was simply leading me on to nothing and I feel very upset. Of course, it would have felt bad if on the first or second day itself she told me that she just wants to be friends and nothing more. But all these meetings were for what? She had ample opportunities to say a clear No to me and define the boundary.

Really bad experience.

[BillyB]

it seemed like this girl was interested too and wanted to keep a door open for the future.

You're one of her backup plans if she can't find the guy she's looking for. Don't make excuses for her poor communication. It's her problem and shouldn't be yours. I read a lot of guys on this forum in your shoes make excuses for a girl's behavior but truth is, if you were Brad Pitt in his prime, the girl would behave differently and go out of her way to please you instead of giving you a hard time when she disagreed with you on issues. No matter how many weeks, months, and thousands of dollars you've invested into visiting a woman, dump her quickly if she's not thrilled to see you.

I do remember during the time we spoke online, she would ask me a dozen times, when I am coming, how is my visa process going on.

I've had girls ask me when I'm coming after a few messages. They ask all the guys that question. When a girl has a habit of asking guys that fast, it means they aren't special. It doesn't take much and certainly doesn't cost them anything to ask the question. When I feel a girl is developing a bond with me and I'm her clear favorite, then I'll consider a trip over there. The fact your girl kept asking you to visit over and over and over gives me the impression she didn't value the long distant communications with you or have any excitement in discovering somebody new.

[Surfer]

I've had girls ask me when I'm coming after a few messages. They ask all the guys that question. When a girl has a habit of asking guys that fast, it means they aren't special. It doesn't take much and certainly doesn't cost them anything to ask the question. When I feel a girl is developing a bond with me and I'm her clear favorite, then I'll consider a trip over there. The fact your girl kept asking you to visit over and over and over gives me the impression she didn't value the long distant communications with you or have any excitement in discovering somebody new.

I think you misunderstood me or I did not explain properly. She never asked me to meet her on her own. After significant amount of communication online when I felt that I like several things about her and she could be the one, I suggested to meet. Only after I suggested to meet and followed up once to know when she will be available to meet, then she would ask me to know the status of my visa and further details.

And I know what you mean, indeed some girls want to know right away when you are coming to meet them or visiting their country next. I wouldn't go so quickly.

And about making excuses for her behavior. You are correct, I don't want to make excuses for her behavior. But I would at least have expected clarity from her instead of asking me to meet every day while not being serious about anything. And even when I told her how I feel, she had a golden opportunity to tell clearly if she was not interested. Instead at night after returning home, she told me how much she enjoyed and thanked me for the perfect walk and the evening. Then said she wants to see me again the next day.

That's the part which bothered me. Wouldn't a girl who is not interested say right away after a guy expresses his feelings that she doesn't feel the same way? Of course, if not on face directly, at least later through text. Instead of expressing how happy she is and wants to meet again. And now, she is pretending as if there was nothing at all and I am unnecessarily expecting things from her. I never asked her anything but clarity. I didn't want to go out with her to places just like a tourist and wanted communication. She didn't want to. That was a red flag. When I questioned it she became defensive. Very weird indeed.

And if she was trying to keep me as her back up option, then I would say, that's bad. It's better to move further or just plain say No. 6 to 7 days of meeting is enough of time to at least have some clarity in my opinion.

Thanks all for your support and advises again. I just wanted to learn from this experience and understand what I did wrong unless these are all the issues with the girl herself.

[BillyB]

I just wanted to learn from this experience and understand what I did wrong unless these are all the issues with the girl herself.

You visited the wrong girl. Doesn't mean she's a bad girl. She could act differently and behave better with the "right" guy. You weren't the right guy but she doesn't hate you so you are a backup plan.

After significant amount of communication online when I felt that I like several things about her and she could be the one

Find a girl who thinks you could be the one. Dating her will be so much better.

[John Gaunt]

Thanks for your views and I have a recent update with this woman. Which I got just a few minutes ago.

It's just ridiculous.

As you also noticed, from everything it seemed like this girl was interested too and wanted to keep a door open for the future. However, when she suggested to meet in the evening today. I told her that let's find a place to just sit and talk since it will be my last evening here. And she replied, we can rather go to some interesting place since it's your last day. So, I told her that I'm more interested in communication with her rather than just walking around and seeing new places. Even yesterday, I went with her to some place and she didn't speak anything at all. So, I didn't want to meet again just to see some place and no communication.

And to this, her reply was quite rude. She said: "I don't understand what you are waiting from me? Anyway, thank you too for your time. I tried my best. If you wanted something else from me, then I cannot give you as I told you before".

She's referring to the day when I told her that I like her and I found her very attractive, spent the evening walking around holding hands. And all she told me was: "We met only for 1 week and mostly in the evenings. So, need more time to understand each other and more communication".

Now, here's my understanding. If a girl is not interested in a man and a man gives her such strong hints about his interest in her. She could at least tell in response that she does not see him the way he sees her. She could clearly tell that she is not interested in any relation but just as a friend. Instead of continuing to meet.

This girl was simply leading me on to nothing and I feel very upset. Of course, it would have felt bad if on the first or second day itself she told me that she just wants to be friends and nothing more. But all these meetings were for what? She had ample opportunities to say a clear No to me and define the boundary.

Really bad experience.

No, she wasn’t leading you on. What she said was quite clear. It’s your interpretation of what she said that has misled you.

Anyway, I’m curious to know why you are so set on finding a FSUW?

[Surfer]

No, she wasn’t leading you on. What she said was quite clear. It’s your interpretation of that has misled you.

Anyway, I’m curious to know why you are so set on finding a FSUW?

I didn't read that sentence as misleading. I said it's misleading because after we met again, once the cruise incident happened. She wouldn't talk anything and did not seem interested one bit. I was carrying the conversation and she was not interested. Then, she goes back home and says, she wants to meet again. Then I said to myself, okay, let's give it another try. And she said, let's go and visit places. She didn't want communication and just roam around like a tourist. When I said, let's sit and talk for a while, she was more interested in seeing places. And that's when I said, don't you think we should communicate more to get to know each other? And she became defensive by saying: "I don't know what you want from me".

So, the sentence you highlighted, that clearly states she needs more time to talk and get to know each other. But in reality, when we meet, she doesn't want to talk but just see places. That's why I said.

I don't know myself whether she is leading me on or not. All I know is, if she was interested, she would put in effort to communicate when we meet rather than act cold and distant, then come back home and again ask for a meeting.

[Surfer]

You visited the wrong girl. Doesn't mean she's a bad girl. She could act differently and behave better with the "right" guy. You weren't the right guy but she doesn't hate you so you are a backup plan.

Find a girl who thinks you could be the one. Dating her will be so much better.

I agree with you. I'm not saying she is bad. In fact, there were several good points about her because of which I started liking her. And yes, indeed, I am sure she would behave much better around someone whom she is really interested in.

I don't keep girls as a backup plan usually after I meet them. Because keeping someone as backup and constantly meeting them is called misleading in my opinion.

Yeah, dating someone who is really into me would be a better experience

[John Gaunt]

I didn't read that sentence as misleading. I said it's misleading because after we met again, once the cruise incident happened. She wouldn't talk anything and did not seem interested one bit. I was carrying the conversation and she was not interested. Then, she goes back home and says, she wants to meet again. Then I said to myself, okay, let's give it another try. And she said, let's go and visit places. She didn't want communication and just roam around like a tourist. When I said, let's sit and talk for a while, she was more interested in seeing places. And that's when I said, don't you think we should communicate more to get to know each other? And she became defensive by saying: "I don't know what you want from me".

So, the sentence you highlighted, that clearly states she needs more time to talk and get to know each other. But in reality, when we meet, she doesn't want to talk but just see places. That's why I said.

I don't know myself whether she is leading me on or not. All I know is, if she was interested, she would put in effort to communicate when we meet rather than act cold and distant, then come back home and again ask for a meeting.

She wasn’t interested in you after meeting up. You went a step ahead and laid out your feelings. She wasn’t in that zone and possibly felt uncomfortable. She told you indirectly where she was coming from but you were persisting in pursuing her for her affections. Quite likely she was uncomfortable in telling you bluntly, although she did, in the end.
Sometimes, things just are. Accept it and move on.

You still haven’t answered my question?

[Surfer]

She wasn’t interested in you after meeting up. You went a step ahead and laid out your feelings. She wasn’t in that zone and possibly felt uncomfortable. She told you indirectly where she was coming from but you were persisting in pursuing her for her affections. Quite likely she was uncomfortable in telling you bluntly, although she did, in the end.
Sometimes, things just are. Accept it and move on.

You still haven’t answered my question?

I am not sure if you read my posts clearly. I wasn't persisting or pursuing. She was the one who would initiate the topic of meeting again, make plans where and when to meet, ask me and show a lot of interest. I don't understand how you read it as me persisting and pursuing her for affection.

About your other question, I have my own reasons similar to you and other members of this Forum.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[John Gaunt]

I am not sure if you read my posts clearly. I wasn't persisting or pursuing. She was the one who would initiate the topic of meeting again, make plans where and when to meet, ask me and show a lot of interest. I don't understand how you read it as me persisting and pursuing her for affection.

About your other question, I have my own reasons similar to you and other members of this Forum.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

On the 4th day, I told her how I felt about her and expressed interest.

I read your posts just fine.

There are probably as many reasons as there are members. It would be interesting to know yours seeing that you are Indian. Why not an Indian woman? Doesn’t that fit more with your social structures?

[Surfer]

I read your posts just fine.

There are probably as many reasons as there are members. It would be interesting to know yours seeing that you are Indian. Why not an Indian woman? Doesn’t that fit more with your social structures?

I don't understand how that is related to this Topic. Neither do you know much about me and you seem to already judge me based on my place of birth and the kind of social structures I should be following. I might have my personal reasons and I can't spend the time to justify how I don't fit the stereotypical definition of an Indian which you seem to have. And I don't live in India either.

If you have such questions, you could always sent a private message on the Forum.

[Hammer2722]

Thanks for posting your trip Surfer. This girl just wasn't the one. At least you came to this conclusion right away and you were only there for 1 week. Chalk it up as a learning experience and move forward. As Billy said, visit the girls who show their excitement at seeing you on Skype and are always earger to talk to you.
Good luck