Third Time Lucky in Kiev

[LAman]

Define what you are describing as a "relationship"?
Is this any more than a penpal ?( on Skype)  Or have you actually met in real life?

Jay, maybe you should read this thread, it is ONLY 2 pages long, before you post .

[JayH]

Jay, maybe you should read this thread, it is ONLY 2 pages long, before you post .

Ok-- to be pedantic --I have been reading thread -- what do you think I have missed?

Let me float a few comments-- the thread title could be a question --or a muse --or wishful thinking.

In particular --my question in post -- no where does the OP state he has had an actual real life meeting .In fact-- from what he has written it seems to me that he has not met in person.(the word "meeting" is used --but it could be ambiguous in the way it was used.
So let us see what the answer is.( and who has read the thread most carefully !!!!_

[Trenchcoat]

Ok-- to be pedantic --I have been reading thread -- what do you think I have missed?

Let me float a few comments-- the thread title could be a question --or a muse --or wishful thinking.

In particular --my question in post -- no where does the OP state he has had an actual real life meeting .In fact-- from what he has written it seems to me that he has not met in person.(the word "meeting" is used --but it could be ambiguous in the way it was used.
So let us see what the answer is.( and who has read the thread most carefully !!!!_

Jay, check out my change of status that will answer all your questions.

I see your still looking, you could hire me as your life coach

[JayH]

Jay, check out my change of status that will answer all your questions.

I see your still looking, you could hire me as your life coach

I note you have not answered the question-- so let us try again--

Define what you are describing as a "relationship"?
Is this any more than a penpal ?( on Skype)  Or have you actually met in real life?

[LAman]

Ok-- to be pedantic --I have been reading thread -- what do you think I have missed?

Let me float a few comments-- the thread title could be a question --or a muse --or wishful thinking.

In particular --my question in post -- no where does the OP state he has had an actual real life meeting .In fact-- from what he has written it seems to me that he has not met in person.(the word "meeting" is used --but it could be ambiguous in the way it was used.
So let us see what the answer is.( and who has read the thread most carefully !!!!_

Jay, did you read reply #19? Trench did say 'meeting'.... and continues to say 'in a relationship'.

I will say from title, it did sound like he was hoping to get lucky third time.......as in going to go on his trip.

[JayH]

Jay, did you read reply #19? Trench did say 'meeting'.... and continues to say 'in a relationship'.

I will say from title, it did sound like he was hoping to get lucky third time.......as in going to go on his trip.

Yes-- as I said--I see !!

So let him answer the question-- so we can all be clear.

[msmob]

JayH may have a point, LAman !

Trench, thanks to JayH's intervention I have re-read your thread and his question is NOT answered

PLE-EASE confirm you aren't meeting this lass for the first time on a holiday you are paying for .....

[Trenchcoat]

Why would I be in a committed relationship if I hadn't met the girl and only just Skyped,lol 

Yes, I met the girl in Kiev that's why I was third time lucky (note there is no ? there). It's not a muse either together with looking at my status I would not already be committed if I was just musing.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, you are wrong and Muzh is right.

I have already written about this more than 10 times on here, but I never keep track of what thread, so I have to repeat.

For every gal of quality X in FSU, she has an exact counterpart in USA.

FSU gals are no better than USA gals.

The major difference that you and most of us experience is that we can attract and achieve success with FSU gals that are higher up on the scale (using one or more of several criteria).

Now for this gal that you attract and achieve success with in FSU, there is an exact counterpart gal here in USA using the same criteria.

The big difference is . . . this same gal in USA will not give you the time of day . . . but she is right here in USA for sure.

Why does this situation exist ?  Economics.

If the economics were the same in  FSU as in USA . . . these gals you currently can attract in FSU would not give you  the time of day either.

Now does this mean that you cannot find a sincere gal in FSU who is above your league (using one or more criteria)?  No, it does not.

There are many cases where the FSU gal will 'marry down' to a western guy and, in time, a true love does develop.

But never kid yourself that it is not Economics that gets you started, and stop stating that the same quality of gal does not exist in USA.  She does, but you can't aspire to her.

There may be some truth in this 'economics argument', the same ish type of quality girl may exist in the USA/UK but I think they have both been brought up differently, they hold different values, not all values will be different though. The USA/UK girl will have been brought up with career in mind, independence, equality of pay, values & teachings of feminism. The FSU girl brought up with family values, Patriarchal society - men earning more than women, a different view on men more respect less demeaning of men than USA/UK.

Sure, both will want a good standard of living and both will see different ways of achieving this, if they are the rare case that they are already wealthy FSW then it may be less of an issue. I'm not saying FSW go out purely on the basis of choosing one guy for economics but that you still have to be the right guy and be capable economically at least by FSU standards. In Ukraine it is not difficult to be king on the economics front, but you still need a girl into you, that's why first girl did not work out as she was not into me among any other issues.

For sure if I were to take girl back home and treat her like a western women than despite her being genuinely into me who knows. The UK is the divorce capital of Europe, it has one of the highest world divorce rates along with the US worldwide. This does not bode well for many a person's relationship. Its a big unfortunate aspect of our society that US & UK laws do not support family but undermine it. For me I think there is a happy medium between the overly harsh FSU way women get treated and the socially destructive way US & UK society treat women. For me the idea of co-dependancy I think is important, that couples would willing accept this in a relationship like in the FSU but not dominate the other with it like in the FSU. After all if girl was to move to UK and do the same roles as me in a relationship then what would my role be? Would there be a place for me anymore, perhaps not. In my experience of UK society this just makes life harder for men & women, you just end up pointlessly competing against each other, a result of failed feminist experimenting from the 70s I think and nothing good comes off it.

So I do indeed take the point that back in the UK (or US if US) I (or you) would still be the same person, different to that when I'm in the Ukraine, Russia, elsewhere, etc. and of course the same problems could occur over time, potentially, and that would be a concern. Hence the need for me to really think though what is best for me & relationship here long term, and I would guess I'm not necessarily the only guy on this forum or indeed the FSU scene alone on this one. One only has to look at guys on here that have taken a FSW home & its ending in Divorce & hence the threads on that subject that appear on here from time to time. Some of course do make it work but they of course may be well off economically, socially, particularities of the relationship or previous marriages demonstrating they have previous attainability in relationships. That's my thoughts anyway.   

[msmob]

Why would I be in a committed relationship if I hadn't met the girl and only just Skyped,lol 

Yes, I met the girl in Kiev that's why I was third time lucky (note there is no ? there). It's not a muse either together with looking at my status I would not already be committed if I was just musing.

Trench,

If there was doubt - it was due to how you wrote - but thanks for clearing up the confusion.

As for 'committed' I'm not really sure how you can 'KNOW' this after one visit...

There are too many internet saddos who might relish any 'failure' on your part - mostly single guys.

[jone]

Trench,

If there was doubt - it was due to how you wrote - but thanks for clearing up the confusion.

As for 'committed' I'm not really sure how you can 'KNOW' this after one visit...

There are too many internet saddos who might relish any 'failure' on your part - mostly single guys.

The biggest obstacle Trench has to overcome is himself.  If this is the real deal (and the real deal does not always come from one meeting) then the real work begins.  Expenses and lifestyle adjustments are deal killers.  Little things like communications connections are not (and should not be). 

Trench's previous posts, here on the forum, indicate a reluctance to spend money.    While that is not, in and of itself, a bad thing, it is a thing that any prospective bride will be watching very closely.  "Is he capable of taking care of me?"  Any evidence of greedy behavior on his part will throw him to the dust bin.  I still maintain that Trench is coming into this relationship without enough money to make it work.

[LAman]

The biggest obstacle Trench has to overcome is himself.  If this is the real deal (and the real deal does not always come from one meeting) then the real work begins.  Expenses and lifestyle adjustments are deal killers.  Little things like communications connections are not (and should not be). 

Trench's previous posts, here on the forum, indicate a reluctance to spend money.    While that is not, in and of itself, a bad thing, it is a thing that any prospective bride will be watching very closely.  "Is he capable of taking care of me?"  Any evidence of greedy behavior on his part will throw him to the dust bin.  I still maintain that Trench is coming into this relationship without enough money to make it work.

And this board is the one who convinced him to try his luck in FSU!!!

[jone]

While I may agree with your sentiments, LA Man, there have been a number of us who have urged Trench not to pursue an FSU woman, myself included.  I don't think he has the income to make it work.

[wallm]

Trench, are you sure about paying for English lessons? After one visit? How are you in a relationship with this lady after one visit? Did you two talk explicitly that you are exclusive? I hope this works out for you.

[LAman]

While I may agree with your sentiments, LA Man, there have been a number of us who have urged Trench not to pursue an FSU woman, myself included.  I don't think he has the income to make it work.

That was after many realized how risk/$$ adverse he was. But I agree with your statement re: income.

I NEVER advise anyone to start this journey, while it may be very rewarding, it has so many pitfalls you wonder if it is worth it.

[msmob]

I NEVER advise anyone to start this journey, while it may be very rewarding, it has so many pitfalls you wonder if it is worth it.

??

I'm sure those of us with long-term FSU partners are scratching their heads ... 

[Hammer2722]

Trench,

If there was doubt - it was due to how you wrote - but thanks for clearing up the confusion.

As for 'committed' I'm not really sure how you can 'KNOW' this after one visit...

There are too many internet saddos who might relish any 'failure' on your part - mostly single guys.

I totally agree. I made 5 trips to Lviv to see the same woman. I was even in the K-1 process when she decided she did not what to be so far apart from her parents. I thought she was the one after many trips. You are so sure after one? 

[Trenchcoat]

The biggest obstacle Trench has to overcome is himself.  If this is the real deal (and the real deal does not always come from one meeting) then the real work begins.  Expenses and lifestyle adjustments are deal killers.  Little things like communications connections are not (and should not be). 

Trench's previous posts, here on the forum, indicate a reluctance to spend money.    While that is not, in and of itself, a bad thing, it is a thing that any prospective bride will be watching very closely.  "Is he capable of taking care of me?"  Any evidence of greedy behavior on his part will throw him to the dust bin.  I still maintain that Trench is coming into this relationship without enough money to make it work.

I've got the money Jone but know what you mean. The expenses have been racking up and its unusual territory for me since I like to see a positive inflow most of the times rather than a negative one for a while. This I realize is something that during this phase of the relationship I am going to have to spend out on. I know I don't want to be too much of a tight wad to mess up a chance for happiness and a lovely future with girl. Along with that though I know I need to keep spending in check for long term financial well being of the relationship. So I made sure I reigned in expectations girl might have got to spending big. This I see as long term healthy for the relationship - how many men have been too afraid to do this just stumped up all the time for whatever until all the financial irresponsibility just broke them.

I know from a previous guy that posted on here with a post that he was looking forward to moving in with girl & getting settled so he will no longer have as much expenses so quickly. This is what I believe I can sort something out with in the next few weeks or so. The girl for her part seems to genuinely want to be together with me, and I do with her. So I really don't see a long road of meetings ahead but one where we are together. For me a long road of meetings is not what I'm after and neither I gather is she, if it became that it would be a no-go. She repeatedly states that she misses me and I do her. I don't see any ill-intent in her & I'm certain I would have been alerted by now if there was any.

I appreciate your thoughts Jone, as I did last summer when I was in the situation I was in. I've got enough money but its not in exhaustible if it was to flow like water. The point you raise is important for those on here & watching from the sidelines in that yes there is a phase when you start dating a FSW that expenses will rise as you will have to pay for literally everything for both of you. In the Ukraine,its not as good as it was last year, hyper inflation and economic problems has led to steep price rises in shops, its still not too bad for us because of the currency exchange rate but for most Ukrainians its often out of their reach. The point is those looking to seriously get with a FSW need to know it will cost several thousand $ or £ once you start dating them when you are with them. Not costs just for her but yourself, flight tickets, accommodation costs, purchases, etc. Some of these women, actually probably most of them are dirt poor & you'll have to pay for the many things they are short off. Of course once girl get better job in the west I hear this problem eases somewhat     

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, are you sure about paying for English lessons? After one visit? How are you in a relationship with this lady after one visit? Did you two talk explicitly that you are exclusive? I hope this works out for you.

Yes we did and we agreed to be this made us both happy I think. Well, the English lesson are cheap I gave her the money for them as you have to trust her at some point and progress the relationship. It shows commitment on my part as obviously you wouldn't go around doing the same if you were visiting many, at least I wouldn't . For sure one week is quick although some progress the relationship much quicker in a shorter amount of time, i.e they agree to marry after a day or two. After one visit we are very into each other. I could have proposed on the last day and she would have probably accepted, but I decided that it was too early, that it's for another time. She talked of moving in together while I was there and stuff needs to be worked out on this. She's definitely into me genuinely for sure. I think some relationship are more on a slow burn others much quicker it just depends on the people involved.

[jone]

Plan that she will not be able to contribute income to your situation for at least a year.    Probably more.  As you have stated that she has language barriers.  I know of many situations whereby the woman was not able to find employment, at all.

[Trenchcoat]

I totally agree. I made 5 trips to Lviv to see the same woman. I was even in the K-1 process when she decided she did not what to be so far apart from her parents. I thought she was the one after many trips. You are so sure after one? 

Sorry to hear that Hammer, I don't think some girls realize the sort of time, trouble & particularly expense guys incur if they act like this without themselves being at first sure that they are prepared to live away from family. UK & Europe are of course a lot closer but if the girl is particularly attached then it might still be a deal breaker.

She seems definite on me, and while the Ukraine is not a good place for a non-speaking foreigner like me, I'm going to do what I can to sort out a solution to us being together. So yes, I'm sure after just one, I know its surprising but I think we are in both the same boat of wanting to get it together fast. We both get on real well together,  but of course we'll be meeting up again in a few we and so then that will be after two

[wallm]

Yes we did and we agreed to be this made us both happy I think. Well, the English lesson are cheap I gave her the money for them as you have to trust her at some point and progress the relationship. It shows commitment on my part as obviously you wouldn't go around doing the same if you were visiting many, at least I wouldn't . For sure one week is quick although some progress the relationship much quicker in a shorter amount of time, i.e they agree to marry after a day or two. After one visit we are very into each other. I could have proposed on the last day and she would have probably accepted, but I decided that it was too early, that it's for another time. She talked of moving in together while I was there and stuff needs to be worked out on this. She's definitely into me genuinely for sure. I think some relationship are more on a slow burn others much quicker it just depends on the people involved.

This sure is moving fast. Talk of moving in together? My suggestion, go slower. Get to know this girl for a while. Make sure she is really into you. May be others here will stop calling you cheap since you sprung for English lessons, went on the trip and paying for vacation soon, etc.

[Boethius]

I would not move to Ukraine in your shoes.

[2tallbill]

??

I'm sure those of us with long-term FSU partners are scratching their heads ...

You've heard the train wreck stories. Many men aren't good judges of character,
they make choices that would never occur to you or me, and some of them simply
marry the first hot girl who drops her knickers often ignoring glaring red flags futilely
hoping that things will get better at some future time.

Some men get married simply because of the huge emotional/time/monetary
investment that they've put in, when they would be far better suited to start over.   
 
This pursuit isn't for everyone.

[Boethius]

This differs from WM/WW marriages, exactly, how?


I don't think you can know a person's character until you have lived with him/her for some time.