"Why don't you just date an American woman?"

[ML]

Very good analysis and well written VWRW.

I think your number 3 needs to be expanded on a bit.
Is it just that the FSUW and AW are similar in skin tone, facial features, etc. (compared to Indian, African and Oriental women for example), or does it have to do with religion and other factors also?  I haven't given too much thought to it.

[vwrw]

In regard to materialism of FSW women, a few years ago, I would agree that FSUW might be more materialistic. Now, i tend to think that they are NOT any more materialistic than their western counterparts. FSUW may appear materialistic because many of them have their basic needs unsatisfied .  In other words, material things have a tremendous importance only when you cannot afford them to your full satisfaction. For example, let's look at me. when i lived in Russia, material things were important to me, not so now. I do not really care if i live in 150,000$ house or 500,000$ house. I do not really care if i drive this car or another. I am entirely focused on satisfying my need of self realization and personal growth. The same will be true about most Russian people, i believe.  Once they will feel confident that their basic needs are securely satisfied, they will display similar attitude to the material that their western counterparts have.   

[vwrw]

Very good analysis and well written VWRW.

I think your number 3 needs to be expanded on a bit.
Is it just that the FSUW and AW are similar in skin tone, facial features, etc. (compared to Indian, African and Oriental women for example), or does it have to do with religion and other factors also?  I haven't given too much thought to it.

Thanks ML.

I do not think that it is skin tone and facial features of Indians that prevent WM from chasing Indian brides. Many of them do not mind going to Asian countries, paying little attention to Asian skin tone and facial features. I think India's case highlights the importance of religious and cultural  backgrounds. Why did not you go to India in your search of a life partner?

[I/O]

Given the choice, I think most WM will lean to a 'white' woman first.
 

[Daveman]

Actually his sample is quite enough.
...

By the numbers, you are correct, however, his sample is comprised of "Ladies seeking to learn English"...


Now, for a number of reasons, that sample may be pertinent to our own specific group, but as a subgroup may or may not be representative of the UW group.


That being said, I do tend to agree with his assessment.  Especially in how it relates to the perception (primarily by others) of "status".

[JayH]

I agree that combination of  factors influences WM  to chase FSUW. In my opinion the factors are 1) lighter weight of FSUW, 2) their willingness to accept a larger age difference, 3) their being street smart despite their incompetent educational system, and 4)  their efforts to look nice. All these factors were already mentioned.
 3) their seeming similarity to Western people.
 

I am not American so have no reason to look there! Regardless -- you summarise some of my reasons well for looking in FSU.
In my immediate area we already have considerable numbers of eastern europeans who are integral to our society and assimilate relatively easily.That is a huge plus for me in considering all the difficulties of uprooting someones life.
On the point of education-- I have met many people with impressive education and knowledge.You mention 'street smart"-- and in the context of the world they have been exposed to I would agree-- and it is those two points that got me thinking-- many are also naive to so many issues that are everyday attitudes in the western world.I do not mean this as as a criticism--it is observational.

[ML]

Why did not you go to India in your search of a life partner?

My path was a different from the norm, but others have followed it also, so it was not unique.

That is:  I went on several business assignments to FSU countries.
I never went on business assignments to Africa, India or Asia.

[Belvis]

There are quite a few very smart people here, but they are smart DESPITE the educational system, not because of it.

And, generally, Ukrainian girls/women are far more materialistic than their Western counterparts...

The words about educational system are not consistent with the common sense. The system could be corrupt but missiles are still flying in cosmos.
UW could be more  materialistic than their Western counterparts. But what does it mean? They have less cash to spend? They want to know man's income before marry him? They focus on earning money? Meaning of being  materialistic  is not clear point for me.

[erikmagenta]

The words about educational system are not consistent with the common sense. The system could be corrupt but missiles are still flying in cosmos.
UW could be more  materialistic than their Western counterparts. But what does it mean? They have less cash to spend? They want to know man's income before marry him? They focus on earning money? Meaning of being  materialistic  is not clear point for me.

Russian women expect expensive presents very early in a relationship, American women do not.  American women are more apt to share expenses while living together, Russian women would probably not be willing to do this.  American women imo are more likely to marry for "love", Russian women are more likely imo to marry to get ahead and get to the West.  American women are already in the West so it is a non issue.  IMO Russian people do not know how or why to save for the future, because apparently they have gone through so many currency collapses that they are more inclined to spend all of their money right away.  This is considered to be very foolish in the West (a fool and his money are soon parted--save it for a rainy day).

[Belvis]

Russian women expect expensive presents very early in a relationship

I would not call this as materialistic, must be some another definition for that (scam?). Russian women expect signs of care and chivalry, not expensive gifts.

IMO Russian people do not know how or why to save for the future, because apparently they have gone through so many currency collapses that they are more inclined to spend all of their money right away.  This is considered to be very foolish in the West (a fool and his money are soon parted--save it for a rainy day).

Not saving for future is indication for being non-materialistic. Isn't it?

[erikmagenta]

I would not call this as materialistic, must be some another definition for that (scam?). Russian women expect signs of care and chivalry, not expensive gifts.

You are probably saying this as a Russian man who knew what kind of women to avoid in the first place.  I can tell you 1000% that Russian and Ukrainian women will try to bilk a Western man out of every penny he has in an effort to get expensive dinners, fur coats, jewellry, etc.  They not only have no shame about it, they are brazen.

American women are certainly not as slender or attractive as Russian women, but if you bought her one tiny trinket in six months she would be very happy.  The Russian woman would not!!

Not saving for future is indication for being non-materialistic. Isn't it?

You are completely missing the point.  We save for the future so that we have money for our childrens education (which yes, is much better--no matter that you have rockets up in the cosmos--we have the top Universities in the world), for unexpected medical emergencies, and for other unexpected expenses.  My experience with Russian women--they will do everything they can to manipulate you to buy them some unneccesary clothing, shoes, etc (when the room and closet is already overflowing with the stuff!!).
Materialistic!!!

[Anotherkiwi]

...I can tell you 1000% that Russian and Ukrainian women will try to bilk a Western man out of every penny he has in an effort to get expensive dinners, fur coats, jewellry, etc.  They not only have no shame about it, they are brazen.

Big generalisation  Yes, some will, but I haven't actually met any in the dinner, coats, jewellery category - only a couple who let me pay for absolutely everything on holiday!

You are completely missing the point.  We save for the future so that we have money for our childrens education (which yes, is much better--no matter that you have rockets up in the cosmos--we have the top Universities in the world)...

Amend that to "many of" and you'll get more friends.
 
Latest rankings, according to QS World University Rankings (http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011) are:
 
1st Cambridge
2nd Harvard
3rd Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)
4th Yale
5th Oxford
6th Imperial College, London
7th University College, London
8th Chicago
9th Pennsylvania
10th Columbia (New York)
 
What's even more interesting is that all the English ones have annual fees in the region of the equivalent of $US 14-16,000, compared with $38-$42,000 for the US ones.  Even the overseas student rate at Cambridge and Oxford is only $22-24,000.

[Belvis]

  We save for the future so that we have money for our childrens education (which yes, is much better--no matter that you have rockets up in the cosmos--we have the top Universities in the world)

I don't dispute you have the top Universities in the world. I respect MIT very much, have some reservations about others.
We employ another approach to close our  educational flaws. Send in USA smart girls like Anna Chapman with help of MOB industry, they bring back in Russia modern technology. Pretty simple,  no need to raise good engineers and scientists among locals

[Gator]

  Once they will feel confident that their basic needs are securely satisfied, they will display similar attitude to the material that their western counterparts have.   

Exactly!   
 
Nevertheless, one person's threshhold for "enough" may be higher than the next person's.

[Gator]

By the numbers, you are correct, however, his sample is comprised of "Ladies seeking to learn English"...


Now, for a number of reasons, that sample may be pertinent to our own specific group, but as a subgroup may or may not be representative of the UW group.

Correct.  However, who cares about the entire popualation of UW when we are interested only in the subgroup of UW who know English and are interested in meeting foreign men?
 
This raises a question.  Every UW is different.  Are the UW who are more "materialistic" unhappy with their life in Ukraine, and thus consider marriage to foreign men?  They know they need to improve their English, so Timuana meets them in his classes.
 
Also, "materialistic" UW who want to stay in Ukraine will want to obtain the higher paying jobs.    Knowing English is important to landing high paying jobs in International Business.
 
Hence, timinua sample could easily be skewed from the universe of UW.

[Daveman]

You are probably saying this as a Russian man who knew what kind of women to avoid in the first place.  I can tell you 1000% that Russian and Ukrainian women will try to bilk a Western man out of every penny he has in an effort to get expensive dinners, fur coats, jewellry, etc. They not only have no shame about it, they are brazen.

This is certainly true of that kind of woman Belvis has learned to avoid..     The most brazen of all moves is one which Mies described as "catch the tail", where others will tag along to get whatever they can. No guilt, no remorse, after all, the fool is parting with his money willingly (or in hope of a payoff).


Now, if the mark(s) would merely gaze into the cash loving eyes of his penile blood interest and caringly say "darling greedy bitch,  get your heinous heiny outta here and take your gaggle of tramps with you..."


Do you honestly think they'd actually kill the fantasy of their own volition?  nahhhhh, which is why I say, men are the ones who scam themselves...

American women are certainly not as slender or attractive as Russian women, but if you bought her one tiny trinket in six months she would be very happy.  The Russian woman would not!!

Heh, before I dated The Russian woman it seems I was, unbeknownst to me, dating The Russian woman.. 

[erikmagenta]

I don't dispute you have the top Universities in the world. I respect MIT very much, have some reservations about others.
We employ another approach to close our  educational flaws. Send in USA smart girls like Anna Chapman with help of MOB industry, they bring back in Russia modern technology. Pretty simple,  no need to raise good engineers and scientists among locals

Yes Belvis, I am well aware that your MIG jet technology was an exact (almost) duplication of the tech which was used in the first ever Jet--the Messerschmitt Me 262 Jet developed by the Germans during WWII.  The Soviet Union captured some of the best Scientists and technologies when they took over East Germany.

Of course the USA also got a few such as Dr. Braun the father of NASA.

Unfortunately for you--Anna Chapman got absolutely nothing!!

[erikmagenta]

Belvis,

I was just giving you a stereotype of the kind of women who take advantage of gullible Western men.  Stereotypes are just that--your mileage may vary.  As a Russian man you have a huge advantage over us because you know the culture and language--and you can date the women with better values.  For us we are easily fooled about a woman's intentions, and as Daveman points out it can be our own fault.

AnotherKiwi,

I stand corrected.  Of course you are right, we have some of the best Universities here in the USA.  And you are also correct that it is big big business here--whereas in Socialist European countries--the best students can go to University on a shoestring budget compared to what it can cost here.

[Anotherkiwi]

...AnotherKiwi,

I stand corrected.  Of course you are right, we have some of the best Universities here in the USA.  And you are also correct that it is big big business here--whereas in Socialist European countries--the best students can go to University on a shoestring budget compared to what it can cost here.

Great Britain socialist?  On. my sainted aunt...
 
I'm glad you consider $20-22,000 a shoestring budget.  You can pay for your FSUW's education in England, then have (presumably) heaps left over to get her to the USA.
 
If, however, you mean the FSU itself, there is no guarantee (from all the murky stories which come out, some even in this forum) that the degree so obtained is worth anything much at all.  Of course most are legitimate, but I'm sure that people such as mies and Lily would know of classmates or acquaintances who ended up with a degree that was not deserved, whether by doing sexual favours for lecturers, simple bribery, or having a father who was someone important (just three possible scenarios).  And please note, ladies, I do mean a small proportion.

[Anotherkiwi]

Yes Belvis, I am well aware that your MIG jet technology was an exact (almost) duplication of the tech which was used in the first ever Jet--the Messerschmitt Me 262 Jet developed by the Germans during WWII...

Although the Me 262 was the first operational jet fighter, it was not the first to fly, nor the first into production - the latter honour belongs to the British Gloster Meteor (thanks to Wikipedia for confirming what I felt in my bones  ).  The first jet to fly was the Heinkel He 178 (27th August 1939), followed exactly a year later by the Italian Caproni Campini N1, although the latter was recognised as the first jet by the FAI because the Heinkel programme was still a secret at the time.  The prototype Gloster E28/39 first flew in May 1941.

[erikmagenta]

Great Britain socialist?  On. my sainted aunt...
 
I'm glad you consider $20-22,000 a shoestring budget.  You can pay for your FSUW's education in England, then have (presumably) heaps left over to get her to the USA.
 
If, however, you mean the FSU itself, there is no guarantee (from all the murky stories which come out, some even in this forum) that the degree so obtained is worth anything much at all.  Of course most are legitimate, but I'm sure that people such as mies and Lily would know of classmates or acquaintances who ended up with a degree that was not deserved, whether by doing sexual favours for lecturers, simple bribery, or having a father who was someone important (just three possible scenarios).  And please note, ladies, I do mean a small proportion.

Sorry mate but you are confused if you think I was referring to England.  I was actually referring to places like
France and Germany which do have very good Universities, and cost much less than those in the US.

[Anotherkiwi]

Sorry mate but you are confused if you think I was referring to England.  I was actually referring to places like
France and Germany which do have very good Universities, and cost much less than those in the US.

Understood, but four of the universities on the list I quoted were English, and none were from continental Europe.

[Ranetka]

Understood, but four of the universities on the list I quoted were English, and none were from continental Europe.

The prices quoted are for a foreign students

[CDW]

What's even more interesting is that all the English ones have annual fees in the region of the equivalent of $US 14-16,000, compared with $38-$42,000 for the US ones.  Even the overseas student rate at Cambridge and Oxford is only $22-24,000.

Take a look at this course (as an example)
http://www.eselondon.ac.uk/postgraduate-certificates/fashion-management/


Language of Instruction: English
Level of Instruction: Postgraduate
Programme Fees

ESE London
Application Fee: £50
Registration Fee: £500
Tuition Fee: £6,300

ESE Milan
Application Fee: £50
Registration Fee: €500
Tuition Fee: €4,500

ESE Madrid
Application Fee: €50
Registration Fee: €500
Tuition Fee: €6,000

ESE New York
Application Fee: $75
Registration Fee: $700
Tuition Fee: $28,100

You can see the price difference for exactly the same course, and as well as in English (even in Madrid and Milan)

[CDW]

Try to date Paris Hilton. A new dress every night, a new diamond, a new pink Bentley...
Can you match her by buying a new designer suit every day?

I'd rather die than dating Paris Hilton!!!!