Newt or Mitt VS Obama. Can either of 'em beat him?

[Faux Pas]

That's more than sheer coincidence. The phrase "those who don't learn from history....".

All this Global Contingency Operation BS is nothing more than trying to brown-nose ourselves behind an arse that we shouldn't be doing in the first place. Carter weakened our global position position in that region and Obama did the exact same thing.

If that isn't enough, the embassy tweet only reinforces the notion we are a country without a leader. When that happens, there's no 'alternative ending' on this re-run. It always ends with brutal take-overs and we're left watching smoke billow out from every fiber of our collective stupidity.

+1

[jb]

Trying again;


Some people have the vocabulary to sum up things in a way you can understand them. This quote came from the  Czech Republic . Someone over there has it figured out. We have a lot of work to do after November.
...
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.  It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America . Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool.  It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as  those who made him their president."

[jb]

Thank you, Daveman.

I have no idea why my computer skills suddenly went south when I tried to post that quote.

ABO in 2012.  The repub's could run a cockroach in '12 and he'd still be better than the worm we have in the White House now.

[BC]

Heh... no he did not, but your comment does emphasize a related point -- that Jesus does seem to be the first documented Master of quantitative easing...so when he returns, I'll need to add him to the "Do Not Vote" list..

Fed intervention will bite back.

Problem this time around is that folks are wary of credit and starting to realize the benefits of living within ones means.

God forbid folks should start saving again.. Need low interest and high inflation to combat such thoughts.

Quantitative easing wont work anymore without creating innovation to drive new demand.  Most folks have what they need.

[jb]

BC;

Quite right,,, I have some of savings instruments worth $100,000.00 each, and they pay right at $14.00 per month in interest each, hardly worth the time to administer such a worthless return on investment.  I yearn for the days when savings accounts paid 3-4% interest,,, bring on the inflation~!

[The Natural]

Muzh raised the same point, and it is true.  Evidently some explanation is needed because Obama had nothing to do with it.  In fact it happened in spite of Obama's programs pullng in the opposite direction.
 
 
The increase in stock value corresponds to monetary easing by the Federal Reserve.  The Fed has a dual mandate, employment and inflation.  For most of its history the Fed has focused on inflation.  However, the continued high unemployment is problematic.   To reduce unemployment the Fed has initiated a series of  programs to accommodate lending, i. e., qualitative easing (QE).
 
The Fed initiated QE1 in November 2008 and it lasted to June 2009.  The economy almost stalled again so the Fed did another phase (QE2) from November 2010 to June 2011.   Again the economy has almost stalled so yesterday the Fed started QE3.  This time the Fed said it would continue indefinitely.
 
http://www.igindex.co.uk/content/files/qer3_sep11.pdf

 
What happened yesterday upon announcing QE3?  The DJIA (the Dow) jumped over 200 points to a level higher than its peak in 2007 and very near its all time high.
 
   
 
What are the implications?  QE is a surrogate for printing money.  Such is not good as someday we must pay the piper.   Do you recall 1981-82 when the mortgage rate was near 16%!!!!!!  That was the medicine we had to take after a period of inflation during Carter's presidency.  However, the economy is so bad that inflation does not seem like a threat for years to come.   
 
Even with all the economic troubles the European community faces,  in response to QE3 the Euro has continued to advance while the dollar declines.   This illustrates how bad things really are.
 
What to do?  The Fed sets the monetary policy.  Yet without a sound fiscal policy the economic  problems will not be solved.  The Democrats have been in control.   They did not address fiscal policy, and instead worsened it with stimulus programs.   It is time to take our medicine, pay the piper and redirect America.

Thank you Gator, I knew you're a smart man. I didn't know they had announced QE3 until I read what you wrote here. So I had a look at Kitco and sure enough, as a result gold is up from 1733 to 1775 and silver is up from 33.00 to 34.71! Then it closed for the week-end. It will be very interesting to see the moves when the markets open next week. Need I say I'm long on gold and silver? 


Sure, printing money is a bad solution but will help Obama in the short run. Don't know what other options USA has in the short run other than stimulus, unless it all comes crashing down. But too bad the funds aren't instead used to create jobs in the real economy for Americans, ditch the idea of globalism, install import tariffs and a tax on every Wall Street transaction. That would be real helpful I think.

[Anotherkiwi]

Word out is that Obama had intelligence that the attack on our embassy in Libya was imminent on 9/11/12, yet nothing was done to secure it and protect the ambassador and the personal. Obama was campaigning for his reelection while our ambassador was sodomised and then killed. Good job Mr. Obama!

Eduard, do you have ANY proof of this?  An autopsy hasn't even been carried out yet (or, at least, no reports have come through since his body was returned to the USA), but all the word from Libya seems to be that the cause of death was most likely smoke inhalation from the fire in the Consulate.
 
The State Department has already said that they did NOT have any forewarning (may of course be untrue), and I know you're anti-Obama, but this is pathetic.

[The Natural]

Tarpley:

[Eduard]

Eduard, do you have ANY proof of this?  An autopsy hasn't even been carried out yet (or, at least, no reports have come through since his body was returned to the USA), but all the word from Libya seems to be that the cause of death was most likely smoke inhalation from the fire in the Consulate.
 
The State Department has already said that they did NOT have any forewarning (may of course be untrue), and I know you're anti-Obama, but this is pathetic.

I heard ot on the news, but personally I do not have any proof, I wasn't there

[Eduard]

[size=78%] So I had a look at Kitco and sure enough, as a result gold is up from 1733 to 1775 and silver is up from 33.00 to 34.71! Then it closed for the week-end. It will be very [/size]

Soros has been buying gold lately. That alone would raise the price. QE3 will also do that. Some people say that gold is going to hit $2300-$2400 this time

[The Natural]

Soros has been buying gold lately. That alone would raise the price. QE3 will also do that. Some people say that gold is going to hit $2300-$2400 this time

I think all of the elite has been stocking up on gold for a long time as they know whats ahead. It's the regular fellow who is totally clueless and unprepared. Some nation states are also stocking up as much as they can. like Russia and China.

[GQBlues]

Eduard, do you have ANY proof of this?  An autopsy hasn't even been carried out yet (or, at least, no reports have come through since his body was returned to the USA), but all the word from Libya seems to be that the cause of death was most likely smoke inhalation from the fire in the Consulate.

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/tygrrrr-express/2012/sep/13/kill-every-islamist-and-eat-bacon-their-graves/


Sodomized? He not only was raped and sodomized, they dragged his body down the street. His limo was ambushed coming back to the embassy/consulate. Mainstream media is playing it down because....
 

...The State Department has already said that they did NOT have any forewarning (may of course be untrue), and I know you're anti-Obama, but this is pathetic.

...Obama was too busy on a Vegas fund-raising when all these started happening. The man had much better things to attend to, like maybe composing his thoughts how to deliver an apology speech for the radicals for their hurt feelings.

IMO, the genesis of these had nothing to do with the silly video, . Hillary apologized, Obama apologized, the Ambassador's (RIP) office apologized....Obama should schedule another Apology Tour II soon. He can start in Australia considering their citizens/residents are also now attacking protesting at the US embassy. There you can likely witness a different shade of the word definition of 'Ally' unlike what we saw in Libya and Egypt.

"They're not an ally. They're not an enemy." Obama, speaking about Egypt in trying to decsribe what our relationship with them is. For now, we'll just send them 1.3+ billion dollar/yr. Although that's not a big deal. Michelle probably spend that in less than a year romping around shopping with her entourage and kids.

I still don't understand how a moron can be president of the USA.

BTW-

Where's the Foreign Affair expert prince, Joe Biden? Didn't Bozo, the president, chose Biden to be his sidekick because of Biden's alleged expertise in foreign affairs? LOL. The white house circus tent should let him lose right now and let him speak on his own about this global mess, LOL.

[Daveman]

I think all of the elite has been stocking up on gold for a long time as they know whats ahead. It's the regular fellow who is totally clueless and unprepared. Some nation states are also stocking up as much as they can. like Russia and China.

Not really unprepared. Bullets are cheaper than gold.  When 'what's ahead' unfolds, it will become very interesting as the 'have-nots' begin to waste the 'haves' in vast numbers. 

That's more than sheer coincidence. The phrase "those who don't learn from history....".

... It always ends with brutal take-overs and we're left watching smoke billow out from every fiber of our collective stupidity.

I doubt very seriously people really have a clue what awaits on the horizon.  About the only thing we export now is 'dollars'. That's our business.  Over the past half century the idiots that be took the most technologically advanced, most industrial advanced nation and turned it into a world parasite peddling paper. 


The ironic aspect of this is that most of those who have purchased gold have not taken delivery. They own paper representing gold 'holdings'.  What's that phrase? Oh yeah.. "if you can't hold it, you don't own it"..


When the crap hits the fan, anyone holding paper will at least have something with which to wipe their hind parts as toilet paper will be more expensive than the paper used to purchase it.


They are kicking the can again.  Yep it can work for a while.  How?  It's all about the belief that it will work.


Look, this idiotic world fiat currency system is based on belief. That's it. The dollar is backed by.. belief in the dollar.  How this will pan out is the same as it has always panned out in the 100% failure rate of fiat currencies past.  *Something* will shake this belief.. slowly a trickle of dollar dumping will begin.  The trickle builds as the herd mentality takes over and dollar dumping spreads world wide.  The Dollar Dam bursts.... what happens then?  Hard to predict as the dollar is based on nothing, and uh, how many of the world's currencies are based on the underlying dollar? 


QE may stave it off for a year, maybe a decade, or it could be the very impetus of the mass panic. No one can really predict when the Ponzi scheme will collapse because its outcome is based, positive or negative, on herd psychology.  The only certainty is that it *will* collapse..  at some point. 


It is going to be an interesting century.

[Faux Pas]

Sodomized? He not only was raped and sodomized, they dragged his body down the street. His limo was ambushed coming back to the embassy/consulate. Mainstream media is playing it down because....
 
...Obama was too busy on a Vegas fund-raising when all these started happening. The man had much better things to attend to, like maybe composing his thoughts how to deliver an apology speech for the radicals for their hurt feelings.
 Hillary apologized, Obama apologized, the Ambassador's (RIP) office apologized....Obama should schedule another Apology Tour II soon. He can start in Australia considering their citizens/residents are also now attacking protesting at the US embassy. There you can likely witness a different shade of the word definition of 'Ally' unlike what we saw in Libya and Egypt.

"They're not an ally. They're not an enemy." Obama, speaking about Egypt in trying to decsribe what our relationship with them is. For now, we'll just send them 1.3+ billion dollar/yr. Although that's not a big deal. Michelle probably spend that in less than a year romping around shopping with her entourage and kids.

I still don't understand how a moron can be president of the USA.

I find even more insulting is the pure denial coming out of the White House

CARNEY: We also need to understand that this is a fairly volatile situation and it is in response not to United States policy, and not to, obviously, the administration, or the American people, but it is in response to a video, a film that we have judged to be be reprehensible and disgusting. That in no way justifies any violent reaction to it, but this is not a case of protests directed at the United States writ large or at U.S. policy, this is in response to a video that is offensive to Muslims.

4 embassies have been under siege and defaced for close to a week. 4 Americans killed including an ambassador, one embassy fire bombed. The idiots are clinging to the idea that blood thirsty muslim extremist are pissed off over a video. The Middle East is on fire and our hero of a President is in denial favoring to campaign to the next election and snub Netanyahu. Brilliant

[BC]

BC;

Quite right,,, I have some of savings instruments worth $100,000.00 each, and they pay right at $14.00 per month in interest each, hardly worth the time to administer such a worthless return on investment.  I yearn for the days when savings accounts paid 3-4% interest,,, bring on the inflation~!

jb,

I really think that the US and other 'aging' nations have to come to the realization that the 'baby boom' scenario where a large part of  GDP relies on the consumption of well heeled retirees is out of the question.  That teat has been sucked dry already and more and more will depend on government benefits rather than private funds.

Many forget that the economy is a closed system that is reaching both political and economic equilibrium. The effect of political equilibrium is that only a few percent decide and more are divided than are brought together.  Much the same is happening with the economic situation.  One fact that is quite clear, the markets are not what they were 10 or 20 years ago.  As many can bet against as for progress...  this is indeed the 'root of all evil' that turns Wall Street into nothing more than a huge gambling casino.

The 'booms' AND 'crashes' of the past have been lead with only one instrument.... Credit..   without it we would today be on a more steady and reasonable path rather than depending solely on the exchange of wealth from one entity to another.

I stated long ago that those with great power and wealth are even able to drive the markets into turbulence... that creates conditions for microsecond gains that exceed losses.  I believe that a 4% interest rate on your wealth is quite reasonable over the long term.. but many still profit from your deposits rationalizing that 'free' money, from selling aging debt instruments that the government will gobble up to the tune of 40 Billion a month is worth a few keypunches on their keyboard.  Trickle down simply does not allow enough to trickle down... in any other form other than Credit....

That is the essential problem... the bottom line if you will...  The Fed is allowing others to use your hard earned savings to be thrown away at the mercy of the markets instead of rewarding you for accumulating wealth that will be able to support you in the future.

Demand is down.. and for a good reason.. but no one seems to want to realize why....  When a million in the bank brings only 400 bucks or so something is wrong.... very wrong....

But then again, you could invest a million in some business enterprise.. to sell what? another salad shooter?  Forget it.. those days are over.

When the next iphone influences GDP we're in sad shape... really sad....

[BC]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/if-the-economy-is-as-bad-as-everyone-says-why-are-stocks-soaring-thank-the-federal-reserve/2012/09/16/3884f804-001c-11e2-bbf0-e33b4ee2f0e8_story.html

What it all ads up to is that the next bubble that will burst is the stock market.  Businesses both big and small now have every incentive to build..

It will either happen or it will not.  If not, the wound is still festering despite band-aids and will start to rot.  The first decade of the 21st century was a consumer boom bought with credit.  Easy credit and low interest is again the only hope but folks already have what they need and can afford.  The world will have to adjust to the new environment and no presidential candidate has a silver bullet.  Wall Street success as a measure of economic health has become disjointed with reality.

The decade ahead will be built not on technology which already saturates households but instead on health, education, achieving a state of well being and self-sufficiency not only in terms of energy but basics such as home grown food as well.  I get the feeling folks are tired of banks, stocks, credit and government.  The new status symbol may end up being what is growing in your garden instead of what's parked in your driveway.

[jb]

don't bank on education,,, that's in the crapper.

The average entry level college student today is not anywhere near high school level 20 years ago.  We have run down hill since 1990,,, no excuse...

That's a fact.

[BillyB]

 

I still don't understand how a moron can be president of the USA.

He still has a good chance to be president again. Don't blame Obama, blame the majority of voters if that happens and if the majority of voters are able to vote for guys who can't get the job done, the country will continue to decline.
 
I understand people hate big business, banks, Wall Street, rich people but those guys can create jobs and you have to respect that, to bring them down. I respect a rich guy who creates jobs more than the average guy who works. A rich guy can do much more for the economy and people's families than the average Joe. Many people think the cure to the economy is voting in a president who will lift up average Joe and bring down the guys who give them jobs. Doesn't work that way. France's new president is taxing the rich at 75%. Guys like Louis Vuitton is moving out of country. People of France may love their president for doing that but he is effectively moving money and jobs out of the country.
 
I don't think the economy is going to get better soon. I work in construction and one way to tell if construction is going to get busy is if the architects get busy and they aren't busy. Half the city's inspectors lost their jobs because there's not much to inspect anymore. Not much of Obama's stimulus money went to contruction projects but it did go to green projects and businesses that failed because people don't want to buy those products. Lot's of wind energy got funding but in the state of Washington the government is paying farmers to shut down their windmills because they don't need the electricity all the time and no place to store the excess.
 
At this time 4 years ago I remember on the forum the majority of talk pertaining to politics was how bad the economy was under Bush and to vote Obama. Obama promised hope and change. People did get to hope but nothing changed. He had less wars to deal with, no 9/11 to deal with, and no housing market crash to deal with yet he can't get the job done. Can someone remind me why he won the Nobel Peace Prize right after he was elected with nothing accomplished?
 

don't bank on education,,, that's in the crapper.

The average entry level college student today is not anywhere near high school level 20 years ago.  We have run down hill since 1990,,, no excuse...

That's a fact.

America still has the best colleges in the world. Don't need everyone in the country to be geniuses to make the country a success. Just need the right people in the right places. Some people are good at making big decisions for the economy, others are good at making 99 cent hamburgers at McDonalds.

[Gator]

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I don't miss him, yet he was so much better than Obama. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[BC]

 
I understand people hate big business, banks, Wall Street, rich people but those guys can create jobs and you have to respect that, to bring them down. I respect a rich guy who creates jobs more than the average guy who works. A rich guy can do much more for the economy and people's families than the average Joe. Many people think the cure to the economy is voting in a president who will lift up average Joe and bring down the guys who give them jobs. Doesn't work that way. France's new president is taxing the rich at 75%. Guys like Louis Vuitton is moving out of country. People of France may love their president for doing that but he is effectively moving money and jobs out of the country.
 

It's not so much that folks hate..  it is more so that folks have lost their trust in such institutions for building a playing field that is graded towards their interests, unethical conduct and plain fraud and abuse.

I would support your sentiments more if companies would be hiring more people now, getting back to pre crash levels.  But guess what.. it's not happening.  The crash for many industries was a good relief valve for getting rid of excess personnel and are now profiting from being 'leaner and meaner'.  Add that to folks being tired of being in hock up to the gills in order to have the latest and greatest and the result is what you see.

All this is a learning exercise though.. and will prove that trickle down never has really worked.  Business is too reluctant to invest in a long process of putting the workforce back into world class position to compete.  If they don't do it who will?  Credit is dirt cheap, the value of the dollar is way down.  So what's the hold up?  If monetary policies aren't enough to get business back in the game, taxes will by going up, forcing those holding cash to get back into the business of building something with it rather than just sitting on it.

[Gator]

Businesses both big and small now have every incentive to build.

Yes and no.  There are many disincentives.   
 

Easy credit and low interest is again the only hope but folks already have what they need and can afford. 

I guess you own a Nokia rather than an Apple phone.    And in a year or two, it may start again when Apple rolls out its TV.
 
Read about Apple sales, and its effect on the GDP.    And it is done on credit.  AT&T and Verizon are the creditors, subsidizing  new phones in exchange for two-year service contracts.
 

...... no presidential candidate has a silver bullet. 

Agree, but one has only band-aids, and the other is intent on making intrinsic changes such as having the private sector allocate dollars.
 

Wall Street success as a measure of economic health has become disjointed with reality.

Disjointed?   The world is awash with cash looking for investment opportunities.  When companies with growth and healthy balance sheets pay a dividends 5x more than bond yields, where would you put your money ?

I get the feeling folks are tired of banks, stocks, credit and government.  The new status symbol may end up being what is growing in your garden instead of what's parked in your driveway.

Many Russians agree with you, taking pride in their potato crop grown at their dacha.  I get the impression that you were a military brat hippie.   What are you doing today to celebrate the one year anniversary of Occupy Wall Street? 

[BC]

Yes and no.  There are many disincentives. 

And what would they be?
 

 
I guess you own a Nokia rather than an Apple phone.    And in a year or two, it may start again when Apple rolls out its TV.
 
Read about Apple sales, and its effect on the GDP.    And it is done on credit.  AT&T and Verizon are the creditors, subsidizing  new phones in exchange for two-year service contracts.

 
No, I regularly buy apple products... tried a samsung phone but am not happy with it.  Will probably pick up a discounted 4s while in the US without carrier subsidies.  I don't buy their 'plans', just the phones unlocked.

I rarely if ever buy anything with credit.  If I can't afford something I'll wait before spending even more. Cars, house, phones make no difference.  Lots of folks, not only the poor are following suit.
 

Agree, but one has only band-aids, and the other is intent on making intrinsic changes such as having the private sector allocate dollars.

All promises without a real plan that has a chance in hell of working, much less pass as legislation.

Disjointed?   The world is awash with cash looking for investment opportunities.  When companies with growth and healthy balance sheets pay a dividends 5x more than bond yields, where would you put your money ?

It's all speculation isn't it?  A world awash with cash is unhealthy and has repercussions..  The balance is in tilt.  Balloons pop or loose air eventually.  For every loss, someone will likely but not always gain. Essentially free money is fueling Wall Street to a new record high.  Main Street is probably on a more reasonable and responsible growth pattern.  In this world that desires instant gratification, folks have a harder time dealing with 'normal' but they are learning and learning to live with it.
 

Many Russians agree with you, taking pride in their potato crop grown at their dacha.  I get the impression that you were a military brat hippie.   What are you doing today to celebrate the one year anniversary of Occupy Wall Street? 

Lol.. you are correct I was a 'brat' hippie back then, but reality set in long ago so that's what I deal with today.  I gave  up growing veggies, just took too much time and the neighbor gives us a lot for free..  but I can plant if needed.  Several thousand square meters ready if It comes down to that.  Plenty of fruit trees keep us 'Occupied' and makes great jam.  The only qualm I have with Wall Street is emphasis on short term gain instead of long term progress.  I think a great start would be to put a hold on stocks purchased, at least 24 hours should pass before being able to sell them again with gains taxed as ordinary income.  Losses? bad luck.  People who invest in the markets and keep their stock for at least 10 years should not have to pay taxes on their gains and not able to use them as collateral during that time.

[OlgaH]

It's not so much that folks hate..  it is more so that folks have lost their trust in such institutions for building a playing field that is graded towards their interests, unethical conduct and plain fraud and abuse.

BC,  was not it Adam Smith who wrote and warned in his "The Wealth of Nations"

"The interest of the dealers, however, in any particular branch of trade or manufactures, is always in some respects different from, and even opposite to, that of the public. To widen the market and to narrow the competition, is always the interest of the dealers. To widen the market may frequently be agreeable enough to the interest of the public; but to narrow the competition must always be against it, and can serve only to enable the dealers, by raising their profits above what they naturally would be, to levy, for their own benefit, an absurd tax upon the rest of their fellow-citizens.

The proposal of any new law or regulation of commerce which comes from this order ought always to be listened to with great precaution, and ought never to be adopted till after having been long and carefully examined, not only with the most scrupulous, but with the most suspicious attention. It comes from an order of men whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it."

and Thomas Jefferson

"I hope we shall take warning from the example and crush in it’s birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and to bid defiance to the laws of their country."

 http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=mtj1&fileName=mtj1page049.db&recNum=640

 Abraham Lincoln to (Col.) William F. Elkins, Nov. 21, 1864.

"... I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless."

And here is an interesting documentary "Iraq for sale: The war profiteers" about exactly what Lincoln worried.





As Louis Vuitton was mentioned why not to mention he made a good profit as well collaborating with Nazis and supporting Vichy regime.

[BC]

Olga,

Thanks for the history lesson.  It was one subject I thought as a young kid was quite irrelevant. 

I was wrong.. very wrong.

[BillyB]

It's not so much that folks hate..  it is more so that folks have lost their trust in such institutions for building a playing field that is graded towards their interests, unethical conduct and plain fraud and abuse.

There's always going to be fraud and abuse but should we trust the average guy or below average guy to run the show? Abuse, fraud, and unethical conduct isn't a trait reserved for the rich. Give those guys a billion dollars each and one guy will create a thousand jobs with that money, the average guy may take the money and run toward retirement and travel the world, the below average guy may dope himself till death.

 
Can't hate the businesses and institutions that create the jobs because they're doing better for the economy than the average guy. It's better to trust and like the guy that's giving you a job than the guy that would rather sit on his money giving you nothing.

 

I would support your sentiments more if companies would be hiring more people now, getting back to pre crash levels.  But guess what.. it's not happening.  The crash for many industries was a good relief valve for getting rid of excess personnel and are now profiting from being 'leaner and meaner'.  Add that to folks being tired of being in hock up to the gills in order to have the latest and greatest and the result is what you see.

 
Again you blame business. I run a business and I'm not responsible for 9/11 or the house market crash. I blame the housing market crash on Clinton's government to ease the rules for borrowing so poor people can buy a home and the banks for buying into those new rules since the government will loan to the banks and the people for buying homes they can't afford when they lied on their applications.

 
You believe businesses became leaner and meaner and in essence became worse. I don't believe they wanted to do that but the factors I listed above is the reason they had to do what they did. If business didn't cut the inefficiencies, and get rid of the worst workers, the alternative is bankruptcy. That could mean forced restructuring by the government or out of business and where everybody loses their jobs. Going into survival mode isn't a evil thing.
 

All this is a learning exercise though.. and will prove that trickle down never has really worked.

 
What will work? What country in this work has a economic system in place that will make it so they surpass America's? It's easy to point fingers at problems yet it's hard for people to offer a solution that fixes all. Even with all it's faults, the system we have in place here is still superior to elsewhere.
 

  Business is too reluctant to invest in a long process of putting the workforce back into world class position to compete.  If they don't do it who will?  Credit is dirt cheap, the value of the dollar is way down.  So what's the hold up?  If monetary policies aren't enough to get business back in the game, taxes will by going up, forcing those holding cash to get back into the business of building something with it rather than just sitting on it.

 
Here you are blaming businesses again. I know many developers that can't get a loan from banks for their projects to build their business. They are frustrated the banks won't loan money even though they got bailed out. Obama's government bailed out the banks unconditionally. Obama should have told banks to use the money to invest in business because business creates jobs.

 
Another mistake Obama made was with his program to trade in your car for a more fuel efficient car and you get money from the government. American car companies specialize in mid to large cars and trucks so people were buying foreign cars 4-1 over American cars. Our tax money was being used to help other countries economies before our own with this program.
 

Lot's of tax money was given to companies specializing in green energy. Few people buys that stuff since it's way overpriced so many of the companies went out of business. Too bad money didn't go to struggling companies who actually made products people need or want to buy. A little help for those companies that are important to people's lives may actually save jobs.

 
The only good news I have for my company is I'm surviving while many of my competitors are out of business. Although there are fewer construction projects up for grabs, there are fewer construction companies which means less competition and finally after many years I can actually bid a job for a profit and win the bid. Maybe you think evil companies are getting leaner and meaner and making huge amounts of money but I believe they're just trying to survive.
 
BC, I believe you believe Obama can do the job better than Romney but did you 4 years ago believe the economy would be where it is today when Obama was elected? Surely you have to be disappointed. Obama didn't have to deal with a 9/11 or housing market crash so why is the economy stalling? Blaming this on Wall Street and business is a lame excuse at this point. Remember, it was Obama who promised hope and change if he were elected and it won him a Noble Peace Prize. Hope he delivered, change he did not.