Newt or Mitt VS Obama. Can either of 'em beat him?

[Globetrotter]

Now I remember why people tell others not to discuss religion or politics with strangers!
 
As for Gator............me, the Redneck?  I can only guess that senility has prevented  you from remembering the state where you live.  Suggest you walk to your carport and read the tag on the back of the car, then play a round with your hero and mentor, Rushmo.

[Faux Pas]

As fairly broad generalisations go, I think his was as accurate as any. 

Not only was it so broad as to be completely irrelevant seems it was there to serve no other purpose than to back handed insult to Romney supporters.

I don't personally care what anyone's politics may be, power to them in any event but, just as there are sore losers, this is further evidence of sore winners

[SFandEE]

Not so sure about that. A lot of FSUW we know or know of are fairly well placed to the right. Yes, there is the abortion rhetoric, but I think a lot of FSUW would sympathize with many of the other right of center republican views that may swing them that way in any case...

I see your point and can agree on the surface. Having lived here though you realize the hypocrisy of "work ethic" and entitlement rhetoric gets old. Too much evidence shows it is just tribalism. The values of old white Boomers may be genuine, but the hypocrites that have been using them as a political sledgehammer for the past 30 to 40 years are dying and also getting bad at using them, for example the "legitimate rape" arm of the Reoublican party.


 


Most entertaining. No doubt there are idiots and hypocrites that vote for Obama too, but we didn't see them run to be Senators of Indiana and Missouri. Interestingly states with deep KKK roots, white religious men over 55. I didn't see legitimate rape believers that looked differently.

[Ade]

Not only was it so broad as to be completely irrelevant seems it was there to serve no other purpose than to back handed insult to Romney supporters.

I don't personally care what anyone's politics may be, power to them in any event but, just as there are sore losers, this is further evidence of sore winners

Perhaps. But if you are objective you have to admit that there were (and still are) a bunch of fruit and nuts on the republican team.

[Gator]

As fairly broad generalisations go, I think his was as accurate as any. 

It is unadulterated bullshit.   Please examine each characterization made by SFEE:
 
socially tolerant - What does that mean?  Imply?  I will agree that core Republicans are less tolerant of extreme behavior that go against traditional family values.  However aren't RW all about traditional family values?

open-minded - I assert that many in both parties are closed-minded.   For every example you can give, I can name one on the other side.

man who can see America's flaws with its' strengths - Divergent philosophical viewpoints about how best to optimize America's strengths and remedy flaws does not not mean a Romney supporter is blind to flaws and strengths.   One Obama supporter here at RWD said Romney "should be shot."

who does not want to be associated with hate speech towards women - hate speech???   A couple of  senate candidates made  asinine statements, which were immediately rebuked by their party leadership.
 
 

[Gator]

Perhaps. But if you are objective you have to admit that there were (and still are) a bunch of fruit and nuts on the republican team.

I will admit that the Republicans have more nuts, but the Democrats definitely harbor the fruits.   

[SFandEE]

Not only was it so broad as to be completely irrelevant seems it was there to serve no other purpose than to back handed insult to Romney supporters.

I don't personally care what anyone's politics may be, power to them in any event but, just as there are sore losers, this is further evidence of sore winners

I don't know about winner, I think we all lose when individuals lose all accountability and introspection. You don't know who I voted for, you can be sure I did not vote for the "legitimate rape", 47% hating, inherited or corrupt capital team. Which one is that or were those opinions too.



I thought I was noting statistical facts, I think they are informing, albeit as I noted too generalizations.


The insults by these stereotypes especially about "work ethic" and entitlement have been oozing and dripping by their three stand bearers on this thread for 62 pages.


An entitled 65 year-old white man is just as big a problem for me as an entitled 25 year-old black female. Problem is the 65-year old has been shaping American politics for almost 50 years, that young, black, female--just barely got her voice, if anyone is listening.


The inability to have a reflective, man-in-the-mirror moments for right-wing conservative males is reflective of them, not the people they vote against. Voting Romney did not make you wealthy, fit, hygienic, industrious, or smart. It doesn't exclude you from that, but voting for Romney, does not make you Romney. You probably take as good as you give. We've had these discussions in the past, the South and R States take far more federal funds than they give. They take from the Blue States, they are the parasites, the ticks on the American animal. They voted for Romney. It's facts, provided with a sharp tongue. Very FSU-like.

[Faux Pas]

Perhaps. But if you are objective you have to admit that there were (and still are) a bunch of fruit and nuts on the republican team.

Undeniable and I don't know anyone that would. There are enough fruit and nuts that cover every political belief it makes no matter which one you choose. SF & EE is evidence of that. I know plenty of crazies on the right. I happen to personally know more on the left. 

To insinuate that a liberal political belief makes a better match for a RW is really way the hell out there and not even remotely related

[GQBlues]

Bullschit

LOL, no kidding. Considering over 95% of African-American voted for Obama.
 
Anyway, apparently news have it (3 days after the election) we are for all intent and purposes officially in another recession.
 
Surprise!

[Gator]

 

Interesting 'angle'.......I really wonder who RW would vote for if they did or could.......
 

I assume many RW  believe it makes little difference who is the President (based on their FSU experience).  If they had to vote, the vote would be split between 1) a single issue of abortion or "hipness"  and 2) strong right leanings.  In the end, they would probably vote for Obama if they believe Obamacare will fix the American healthcare system, which they feel is far inferior to Russia's healthcare   
 
So let us try another angle which hits home.   What is that angle?
 
Considering that most AM are older than their RW wives, and that women live longer than men,  most husbands will die well before their wives. Let us presume that a husband was successful enough to have built an estate.   Further, the husband will bequeath his estate to the RW and their children. 
 
In my experience, RW are not that accomplished in financial planning, so a RW will be very dependent upon the executor.   Who would be the better executor to assure that the husband's estate will  be managed  optimally for the long-term benefit of the RW wife and the children: Obama or Romney?
 
We  always overestimate the change that will occur in the next two years and  underestimate the change that will occur in the next ten.  Don't let yourself be  lulled into inaction. - Bill Gates

[SFandEE]

Undeniable and I don't know anyone that would. There are enough fruit and nuts that cover every political belief it makes no matter which one you choose. SF & EE is evidence of that. I know plenty of crazies on the right. I happen to personally know more on the left. 

To insinuate that a liberal political belief makes a better match for a RW is really way the hell out there and not even remotely related

I was asking FSUW women unlike you, I think you were telling them what they prefer. Common generational difference, we were the babies of 60's and 70's. latch-key kids, children of divorce, abortion, and birth control. We know our fathers and mothers well.


I am not liberal or left, my voting record is strong evidence. As to my comments they are generalizations and they are pointed. If the older man party wants to work from 2012 to 2016 they are welcome to help us recover from the past 12 years, if not then I guess they are entitled to the things they gave themselves through hook and crook. We need a better infrastructure--their parents paid for the one we are using, they received government contracts using debt to give them their wealth, now they want the rot to continue because they don't want to help pay to replace what they consumed and the debt they created.


Stop insulting me. I am not insulting any individual, I am provoking a conversation. As a moderator you should not insult individuals if their general points offend you. Perhaps it hits home, I have no idea, but I did not mention Faux Pas, you attacked me. Might I add, you made claims about me that are false.


My politics are mine, but they are not Republican and they are not Democratic. My preference would be to have the Bull-Moose party back, it would be great for these times. I am against corruption and cronyism in government and business. That is the world of the 65 year-old white man.


No doubt other groups are entitled and cronies, just seemed relevant to talk about the group that is pursuing FSUW on this board.

[Gator]

An entitled 65 year-old white man is just as big a problem for me as an entitled 25 year-old black female. Problem is the 65-year old has been shaping American politics for almost 50 years, that young, black, female--just barely got her voice, if anyone is listening.

Please review  history and answer this question:   Which party was responsible for  enacting Social Security and Medicare?
 
Another question, which President moved the surplus funds of the  Social Security program into the General Budget, funds that would enable Social Security to be self-funded?
 
Final question, should the typical 65-yo feel "entitled" when the amount he will receive over his remaining years will be less than what he paid into the program while working?

[Cameraguy]

I really wonder who RW would vote for if they did or could.......

Almost willing to bet Obama would win that poll....

Even though I didn't vote for Obama, I believe you'd win that bet.

An overwhelming majority of people in 20 of 21 countries favored Obama:

U.S. Election: International Polls Indicate World Would Vote For Obama
By Eline Gordts
Posted: 11/05/2012 7:49 am EST

If the world could vote for a U.S. president this week, the outcome would be less than a thriller. Several polls indicate the overwhelming majority of people outside of the U.S. would vote for Barack Obama if they had the chance.

According to a 21-nation poll conducted by GlobeScan/PIPA for the BBC World Service, an average of 50 percent of people surveyed abroad favor Obama. Only 9 percent of those polled prefer Romney, and in 20 out of 21 countries voters would chose Obama.

GlobeScan Director of Global Insights Sam Mountford explains:

While the presidential race in America looks like it's going down to the wire, global public opinion appears to be firmly behind Barack Obama’s re-election — even if two in five express no preference between the two candidates.

According to the survey, two-thirds of Canadians would vote for Obama instead of Romney, a percentage consistent with a recent Angus Reid survey that indicated 72 percent of Canadians favor the current president over his Republican challenger.

If Europeans could cast their ballot, they would overwhelmingly vote Romney out of the picture. Europe is Obama's terrain, and France is the president's strongest backer. Seventy-two percent of the French polled by GlobeScan want to see Obama re-elected. Only 2 percent would vote for Romney.

In Africa, too, Obama would be headed for a clear win, the survey says. Yet markedly, the president has lost support in Kenya, where his ratings drop 21 points.

Pakistan is the only country in the survey that prefers a Romney presidency. Fourteen percent of polled Pakistanis would vote Republican, against 11 percent Democrat. Seventy-five percent of Pakistanis do not favor either candidate.

A September survey by Win-Gallup International indicated similarly that the world favors a second Obama administration. That poll gave 18 percent of global support to Mitt Romney, while Obama won the global vote with 81 percent. "A global straw poll among over 26,000 men and women in over 30 countries shows that if an election was held this week, Obama will face tough competition from his republican challenger, Mitt Romney at home but will win a landslide in the rest of the world," the study concluded in September. According to that survey, Obama found his strongest supporters in the Netherlands, Portugal, Ireland and Iceland, while Romney was most supported in Pakistan, Georgia, Israel, Macedonia and China.

Israel was not polled in the GlobalScan study, but a survey by the University of Tel Aviv found that Israelis prefer Romney by a 3 to 1 margin. 


A recent study by the Russian Public Opinion Center concluded that 42 percent of Russians favor Obama, while only 4 percent believe Romney should be the next U.S. president. According to the Wall Street Journal, most Russian Obama supporters come from the country's large cities and its socialist and communist parties. Yet the Journal notes: "In the end, most Russians are not deeply engaged in the U.S. presidential politics, as only 40% of those who responded said they knew the election was being held this year."

[Faux Pas]

LOL, no kidding. Considering over 95% of African-American voted for Obama.
 
Anyway, apparently news have it (3 days after the election) we are for all intent and purposes officially in another recession.
 
Surprise!

YUP. Then there is that nagging "financial cliff" that we are just as unprepared and unwilling to approach as we have been for the last 4 years while we were passing healthcare and running for president. In between playing golf. Never mind Iran building nuclear weapons and radical Islamists attacking and killing Americans, the unions looking for more payback and ready to collect their share of the Chinese credit card. What's another recession? The check writing printers at the GAC are operating nicely

[SFandEE]

Please review  history and answer this question:   Which party was responsible for  enacting Social Security and Medicare?
 
Another question, which President moved the surplus funds of the  Social Security program into the General Budget, funds that would enable Social Security to be self-funded?
 
Final question, should the typical 65-yo feel "entitled" when the amount he will receive over his remaining years will be less than what he paid into the program while working?

You may think you are right and you are framing the discussion to try and focus on the points that you think make your point. You want a history lesson. I live in the present, do you. As I pointed out, the future is closing in on the Grey-Old-Party.


Should a 30 year-old, single, working mother of three children get help with educating and feeding her children or should a 65 year old get his non-means tested SS check, possibly throw away money on golf club membership and alcohol. He didn't fund his entitlements, he's had full political party and judiciary control a few times. Started two unfunded wars with that power and created a huge unfunded, lobby written pharmaceutical plan that only benefitted him.


Selfish isn't cool, greed is not good. If it attracts FSUW, let's find out. Do they like evangelical Christians too? Mormons? (95% comment)


When the time comes that blacks can vote in their interests independent of their tribal issues that will reflect well on American politics not them. I used to use your 95% comment myself, I am ashamed I did, and I am glad I now better understand where that is coming from and can say it is no longer in my heart. If it works for you, hey, it's a free country, and certainly there are some sexy girls who like that kind of talk too. Just keep it on an anonymous Internet forum, not so much Oakland stadium.

[SFandEE]

As fairly broad generalisations go, I think his was as accurate as any. 

Thanks Ade we've disagreed adamantly in the past, I agree it is a broad generalization. It is meant to point out a few important pieces of data we learned from this election. They are clear, undeniable, and fully exposed. On a micro level.


As to individuals of course there are exceptions, but if you are shopping in Wal-Mart, don't expect Tiffany's.

[pitbull]

Thanks Ade we've disagreed adamantly in the past, I agree it is a broad generalization. It is meant to point out a few important pieces of data we learned from this election. They are clear, undeniable, and fully exposed. On a micro level.


As to individuals of course their are exceptions, but if you are shopping in Wal-Mart, don't expect Tiffany's.

Dunno about other RW, but I agree 100% with every single word  SFandEE has posted in this thread.
 
My suspicion is that not all RW would have this view, just the highly-educated, intelligebt and worldly ones. And humble too 

[BC]

So let us try another angle which hits home.   What is that angle?
 
Considering that most AM are older than their RW wives, and that women live longer than men,  most husbands will die well before their wives. Let us presume that a husband was successful enough to have built an estate.   Further, the husband will bequeath his estate to the RW and their children. 
 
In my experience, RW are not that accomplished in financial planning, so a RW will be very dependent upon the executor.   Who would be the better executor to assure that the husband's estate will  be managed  optimally for the long-term benefit of the RW wife and the children: Obama or Romney?
 
We  always overestimate the change that will occur in the next two years and  underestimate the change that will occur in the next ten.  Don't let yourself be  lulled into inaction. - Bill Gates

Interesting questions Gator!  I like it!

I also think the majority would vote for Obama.  My wife likes him.. she did watch Romney a bit but there was very little appeal.

Yes, even I am significantly older and will not outlive her unless something unfortunate happens..  Here by law it's 2/3'ds to the kids and 1/3rd to the wife.  Insurance is wife kids equally.   Quite allright..  Romney or Obama at that point won't matter a bit.. Everyone will have a few years 'worth' to adjust to a new life doing whatever they please... If they use it wisely fine.. if they blow it all away also fine..  I doubt I will even be in condition to care at that point but will rest well knowing that I have done my part.

Bill Gates is pretty right for his position and wealth..  but that does not necessarily mean it applies to the rest of us.

[SFandEE]

Dunno about other RW, but I agree 100% with every single word  SFandEE has posted in this thread.
 
My suspicion is that not all RW would have this view, just the highly-educated, intelligebt and worldly ones. And humble too 

Throw in sexy and fond of heels and those are the kind of FSUW that attract me. The ones that focus on disposable income, not so much. (I think this is a concer for WM with or without money, except for those who truly think they are purchasing a bride)


Thanks pitbull we have disagreed in the past too, I am glad you can find ways to agree with people with whom you have had disagreements too. It is a great character quality, some of my best friendships and associates thrive in the ability to disagree well.


Something foreign to American polar politics, hopefully the death of a poor generational character found primarily in one party will result in results and not rhetoric.

[Daveman]

You may think you are right and you are framing the discussion to try and focus on the points that you think make your point. You want a history lesson. I live in the present, do you. As I pointed out, the future is closing in on the Grey-Old-Party.

...

The future is closing in on both parties... rapidly.  They're all destroyers of liberty and the constitution and should be dealt accordingly.

[Faux Pas]

I was asking FSUW women unlike you, I think you were telling them what they prefer. Common generational difference, we were the babies of 60's and 70's. latch-key kids, children of divorce, abortion, and birth control. We know our fathers and mothers well.


I am not liberal or left, my voting record is strong evidence. As to my comments they are generalizations and they are pointed. If the older man party wants to work from 2012 to 2016 they are welcome to help us recover from the past 12 years, if not then I guess they are entitled to the things they gave themselves through hook and crook. We need a better infrastructure--their parents paid for the one we are using, they received government contracts using debt to give them their wealth, now they want the rot to continue because they don't want to help pay to replace what they consumed and the debt they created.


Stop insulting me. I am not insulting any individual, I am provoking a conversation. As a moderator you should not insult individuals if their general points offend you. Perhaps it hits home, I have no idea, but I did not mention Faux Pas, you attacked me. Might I add, you made claims about me that are false.


My politics are mine, but they are not Republican and they are not Democratic. My preference would be to have the Bull-Moose party back, it would be great for these times. I am against corruption and cronyism in government and business. That is the world of the 65 year-old white man.


No doubt other groups are entitled and cronies, just seemed relevant to talk about the group that is pursuing FSUW on this board.

I didn't insult or attack you. If you took my play on words as an attack or an insult then possibly that shoe fits. When you make the asinine statements as you did upthread and then continue to make, what is it that you expect in return, everyone nodding in agreement? Tough shit, it ain't going to happen. It is a crying shame everyone can't be as enlightened politically as you are, isn't it? Why is it only you and those "like" you that can see the strengths and weakness of our country? Why are those so few in number?

I was refraining from posting to you directly after our previous exchanges in the past didn't seem to offer me anything of value. However, I do not mind to try once again.

What in your opinion makes the 65 year old white man's station in life less valuable to him than the 26 year old black females station in life does to him? Who has offered and put up more (yes more of the negative political conditions also) bacon on the collective table? The 65 yr old white man or the 26 yr old black female wanting more?

[Faux Pas]

Interesting questions Gator!  I like it!

I also think the majority would vote for Obama.  My wife likes him.. she did watch Romney a bit but there was very little appeal.

My wife is just the opposite. She thinks him along the same lines as she does Putin and I can assure you that's not very much.

We discuss politics often. Both ours and Russia's. I'm sure she has some of my influence as I do hers. But, she doesn't seem to be influenced by my opinion as much as she is of her own and that of her family and friends back home

[SFandEE]

I was refraining from posting to you directly after our previous exchanges in the past didn't seem to offer me anything of value. However, I do not mind to try once again.

It's hard to offer some thing to a man who has it all, especially knowledge. I do not recall past exchanges with you. Thanks for remembering me, I'll do better.


I guess it is just lost on you, age discrimination. Your generation has been voting for decades, a 26 year old inherited the politics and the debt of the Boomers. Your generation has a history of separation and conflict, how did all those marriages work out for Boomers--lot of divorces, a record.


If means testing a 65 year old SS check is offensive to you in principle, let's be practical kids need to eat and be educated. When Boomers were 26 they were given some good times, hiccups and difficulties, but often difficult times because of the inability to come together.


This mess isn't about work ethic. The country's economic engine is in serious jeopardy and all hands need to be part of the solution. Even older pale, or obnoxiously tanned ones.


We need ecomic heroes, enough with the war heroes. Let them come home and work with the rest of us to heal this country so that being American will mean something special again.  If you are old and disagree, four years from now you will either be older or gone. The message 2012 election gave is that the oldsters drove the car in the ditch in 2008, they lost their driving privileges. Please play nice with your grandkids in the back seat. Also learn to say "thank you" and "please" as we pay for your entitlements you failed to fund, but you insist on receiving. That's mine.


Obama is 51
Romney is 65
Bush is 65
McCain isn't he 80 or something

[ML]

 Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel ,
 "Pick up your shovels, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead
 you to the Promised Land."
 
 Nearly 75 years ago, Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, and light up a Camel, this is the Promised Land."
 
 Today, our government is set to steal your shovel, tax your asses, raise the
 price of Camels and mortgage the Promised Land!
 
 I was so depressed last night thinking about all of this that  . . . I called a Suicide Hotline.
 
 I had to press 1 for English.
 
 I was connected to a call center in Pakistan . . . I told them I was suicidal.
 
 They got excited and asked if I could drive a truck  . . . . . .

[SFandEE]

Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel ,
 "Pick up your shovels, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead
 you to the Promised Land."

Where is your Messiah now, Moses?