Did I Screw Up?

[scarface816]

So true. lol

[krimster2]

in the case of mousier ScarFace,

I would rather be a physician diagnosing the patient’s condition
than one of the clowns who ridicules his pain...
but each of us will of course choose the profession we are most in touch with...

mon ami,

ze jungle can be a dangerous place for outsiders, who don't KNOW about the jungle
but there are good reasons why you should want to go and explore there
and I think you know only SOME of the reasons...
there are many more you don’t YET know...
and I will leave this as a mystery for you to contemplate...

but...
we need some better non emotional “structured" way to explain these kind of situations, because your narrative was a bit hard for me and some of the others to follow...
hey, I’m not your expository writing teacher checking off points, but...
IMHO, a lot of the negativity you were getting may have been due to the confusing narrative, and not the details themselves, I mean I like nonlinear story-telling as much as... uh actually, I don’t REALLY like nonlinear story telling!

need some kinda Scam Markup Language
<scam>
</scam>

I mean, how do you express what happened to you in all its completeness as succinctly as possible, and show how this snowballed...

my suggestion:

<lies>
</lies>
In this section, put all her lies to you

<family>
</family>
In this section put all your family interaction with her

<money>
</money>
In this section put all financial transactions with her

<sex>
well you know...

<verified>
</verified>
in this section, put everything you have verified about her, where she works, lives, etc,
how much of her “story” she presents to you checks out


then after, attach the narrative part
and the scam markup part will help you logically organize your thoughts to create a more effective presentation of them!!

but anyway, yeah, like I toldya up front man, scammer....
but you know what's funny man!!!!
no seriously!!!
you were scammed, but you also WEREN'T SCAMMED!
you got some honey outta the deal, did you not?
uhh huhhhhh...
think how much you'd a spent tryin to get that kinda honey here in the USA...
probably more right?
and on top of that, you also completed your first year at the damned University of Ukraine, and are now graduated up a level
so you can either choose to dropout or continue your education
the choice is yours

hmmmm hmmmmmmm
snap my fingers
do an about face
and now over to VK to chat with moy druzya in the starry Savushkin Ulitsa banda
OMG freakin Russians!!!!
UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

[ML]

on top of that, you also completed your first year at the University of Ukraine, and are now graduated up a level

Very good observation. 
I like it. 
Should help you if you choose to follow an educated, logical, and well reasoned path forward.

[BillyB]

What's the plan? Are you cancelling the k-1 visa or are you still waiting for her to respond back to your texts and calls in hopes the relationship can be salvaged?

[jone]

Very good observation. 
I like it. 
Should help you if you choose to follow an educated, logical, and well reasoned path forward.

ML,

Best paragraph of advice Krimster has given since I've been on the Forum.

[scarface816]

Yes. This was good advice.

All I can do is learn and try not to do the same thing again.

[krimster2]

scarface,

I’d like you to get some perspective on WHY this happened to you...

Ukraine Iystoria

brutal Czarist dictatorship with mass repression
WWI
Bolsheviks
Stalin
Holodomor
Stalin
WWII Hitler
Stalin
Chernobil
collapse of the USSSR
slow collapse of Ukraine

so you see...
Ukraine is a post-apocalyptic society, where some of the survivors have to cannibalize unwary travelers to stay alive....

this is the simple damn truth of it all...

I was once unlearned in the ways of the jungle like you
that did not go away until after I lived over there for about a year

it takes the wear and grind of that amount of daily contact with Ukrainians
for you to develop the ability to “Block BS”
which in Ukraine, comes in unlimited forms

if you don’t have a BS BLOCK
then anything you do with a woman is gonna be Russian roulette
the only question will be how many turns of the cylinder will you get before you die

and there have been guys on this board who’ve pulled the trigger and it went POW!

ya hear me?
Russian Roulette


I will in parting give you one final bit of advice on a different topic

if you’re considering a business in Ukraine
then from a numerical perspective

it doesn’t make sense to sell your expensive time, to a market where labor is cheap
and the people poor
in Ukraine, this makes your product harder more expensive to purchase compared to the USA

what makes sense is producing a product with low cost Ukrainian labor and exporting that to a high value market...

does this concept make sense to you?
so based on your background, if you could hire a group of programmers, what could you create with this group?
or if you could sell your development services as a "packaged team" with you as English speaking interface to customers
for example, what kind of contracts you get for yourself, BUT
you have a team in Ukraine doing 90% of the work?

and 'snap' back to VK, potom ludie

[BillyB]

All I can do is learn and try not to do the same thing again.

If you want to do this again but differently, you may have to wait almost two years before thinking about getting involved with another international woman. Americans can do only one k-1 within a two year period unless they obtain a waiver. Americans can do only two k-1s in their lifetime unless they obtain a waiver. If you choose to get back in the saddle quickly to finish the education at the University of Ukraine as some here recommend, get an attorney to do the waiver paperwork.

http://www.siam-legal.com/us-visa/how-many-k1-visas-can-i-apply-for/

[HoundDaddyLee]

The average salary in Ukraine is US$454.  That means that half of Ukrainians make more than this, half less. Furthermore, that is an "official" salary. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Bo,


I am behind in reading this thread, so if this has been pointed out previously, I apologize. The average salary is not represented by 1/2 below, 1/2 above. That is the median value. The average or mode is the total of all salaries divided by the total individual salaries.


average = (x1 + x2 ... + xn) / n


HDL


This post was composed with the aid of a degree in Computer Science and Mathematics. 

[Boethius]

Acknowledged.  Now posters should know I don't use google.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

[ML]

Bo,


I am behind in reading this thread, so if this has been pointed out previously, I apologize. The average salary is not represented by 1/2 below, 1/2 above. That is the median value. The average or mode is the total of all salaries divided by the total individual salaries.


average = (x1 + x2 ... + xn) / n


HDL


This post was composed with the aid of a degree in Computer Science and Mathematics. 

Well then you must have missed a course in Statistics.

Mode is not calculated as you indicated, equating it with average.

Mode is the value that appears most often.

[krimster2]

the calculus of Ukraine is all based on a derivative anyway


given the simple ratio between

American male average monthly income
---------------------------------------------------
Ukraine male average monthly income

yields in some regions of the United States a value of > 20

we’ll call this the “Wealth Multiplier Factor” or WMF

The derivative of a function of a real variable measures the sensitivity to change of the function value (output value) with respect to a change in its argument (input value).

my observation is that the WMF IS NOT linear, but exponential
and should not be considered as an isolated output
but instead is the input to the perception of the other person
meaning the greater the WMF value as its INPUT,  the output will be EXPONENTIALLY GREATER than the input
in effect adding a secondary WMF for the person in Ukraine perceiving it!!!!

if we ever start codifying RWD economic theory
I'd like to make this small contribution
after ML's paper on "Opportunity Cost" in the context of failed relationships
which was freakin' brilliant!!!!
I guess we're all gonna be Keynesians now....

[Davo]

How much more can the unofficial wage be in Ukraine?.....

In Russia k’s Ex officially makes $2000 US a month and his unofficial wage was $7000+US. S’s Ex only made an offical wage, but it’s huge even by western standards at $14,000 US a month.

[GQBlues]

Bo,


I am behind in reading this thread, so if this has been pointed out previously, I apologize. The average salary is not represented by 1/2 below, 1/2 above. That is the median value. The average or mode is the total of all salaries divided by the total individual salaries.


average = (x1 + x2 ... + xn) / n


HDL


This post was composed with the aid of a degree in Computer Science and Mathematics.  :P

The ‘454’ number is likely the government’s data received from a given year in their attempt to publish a report for the ‘mean average’ salary in Ukraine for that year. Modal value is as ML cited. Theoretically, ‘454’ may well be a factual ‘median’ salary with the absolutely wild presumption that Ukraine’s work force is equally distributed by both high and lower tiered pay scale. Though I think this will be more unlikely.

But, then it may well be the ‘modal value’ too. Who knows. One thing I’m certain of is that it can’t be the range.

[msmob]

How much more can the unofficial wage be in Ukraine?.....

In Russia k’s Ex officially makes $2000 US a month and his unofficial wage was $7000+US. S’s Ex only made an offical wage, but it’s huge even by western standards at $14,000 US a month.

Hi Davo

They are outliers

I know shop workers on 100 Roubles an hour. in Russia - not legal salary rate - but some folks are that desperate to bring in extra dosh

Working in the local admin - ( 20 year service) .c US 700 /month ..

Ukraine pays less well ( officially ) so the quoted figure probably isn't so wide of the mark

[SteveInBoston]

If you want to do this again but differently, you may have to wait almost two years before thinking about getting involved with another international woman. Americans can do only one k-1 within a two year period unless they obtain a waiver. Americans can do only two k-1s in their lifetime unless they obtain a waiver. If you choose to get back in the saddle quickly to finish the education at the University of Ukraine as some here recommend, get an attorney to do the waiver paperwork.

http://www.siam-legal.com/us-visa/how-many-k1-visas-can-i-apply-for/

Incorrect.

It is true if the K1 visa is approved.  The petitioner cannot apply for another K1 for 2 years.

If SF cancels the K1 before it is approved, this limit does not apply.  It does make it a bit harder for the next K1 yo be approved, because there will be a record of the cancelled application which he'll need to explain.

Alos, even if his K1 was approved, and she arrived to the US but had to leave because he didn't marry her, he can still search for someone else and date right away.  I would not recommend it, but he will be able to.  He just could not apply for the second K1 until the 2 years since the approval of the first K1.

Also, there are other options.  He can meet someone and get married overseas and apply for a CR1 visa.

Nothing precludes him from dating internationally.

[GenMish]

Now that this topic has become a moot statistics discussion concerning the official and underground wages of FSU workers, I would like to back peddle to a thought GQ raised two or three times during this thread. GQ raised the importance of using instincts when dating FSU women, which is great if your instincts are good.

Its been about two years since my divorce, and I have had time to think. Ya know...The most crucial decisions I have made in my life were not based on Logic and Reasoning, but rather Instinct. Looking back, I am noticing I have been rewarded for making illogical decisions, and avoided minefields, because my instincts were right

Anyways, my thought for the day as my instincts have led to two punts for FSU lately, but I ran without thinking in the early 90s

[HoundDaddyLee]

Well then you must have missed a course in Statistics.

Mode is not calculated as you indicated, equating it with average.

Mode is the value that appears most often.

ML,


You are correct sir! My apologies.


HDL

[Gator]

Mode is not calculated as you indicated, equating it with average.

Mode is the value that appears most often.

Hounddog was correct about median, and you are correct about mode.

Please don't stop with just median and mode, someone please introduce the term "mean" (the result of Hounddog's equation).

Bo had corrected  Omega82's suggestion that the "average" salary was $300 per month.  Due to the  skewed distribution of income likely in Ukraine (otherwise known as "income inequality" by Democrats),  Omega's  $300 figure could easily be the median if Bo's $454 were indeed the mean.

Two conclusions: 

              -  the term "average" is ambiguous

              -  Ukraine is economically disadvantaged in relationship with US, and this could be a factor when AM date UW      (aka "no shit Sherlock!")   

[ML]

ML,

You are correct sir! My apologies.

HDL

Confession, I had a course in stat during undergrad, another course during masters and two during doctoral.

However, that was long ago.

My terminology and knowledge was refreshed just recently when I helped wife get through 2 semesters of stat in her doctoral program.  Mean, median and mode concepts and calculations were in first chapter!!

[Trenchcoat]

Hi Davo

They are outliers

I know shop workers on 100 Roubles an hour. in Russia - not legal salary rate - but some folks are that desperate to bring in extra dosh

Working in the local admin - ( 20 year service) .c US 700 /month ..

Ukraine pays less well ( officially ) so the quoted figure probably isn't so wide of the mark

Hooray! Mobe finally admits that a lot of poor Russians and Ukrainians actually exist and they are the bulk of the population. Giving lie of course to the notion put around by some on here that their financial circumstances of day to day Russian & Ukrainian people are much the same as ours.

[HoundDaddyLee]

Confession, I had a course in stat during undergrad, another course during masters and two during doctoral.

However, that was long ago.

My terminology and knowledge was refreshed just recently when I helped wife get through 2 semesters of stat in her doctoral program.  Mean, median and mode concepts and calculations were in first chapter!!

I am going through a Data Science class, so I have no excuse. I must have fell on my head yesterday. 


HDL

[ML]

I must have fell on my head yesterday. 
HDL

I think I do that on a regular basis.

[jone]

I am going through a Data Science class, so I have no excuse. I must have fell on my head yesterday. 


HDL

Well, in that case, nice to see you banging your head in the forum, HDL.   Been way too long.

[Trenchcoat]

Interesting point Trench about losing respect. I think this plays into what I was saying about saying no to her early in the interaction as being a necessary test of the possibility of us moving forward.

I've been thinking more about what I said SF and I'm thinking that chances are you stood outside the shops as you felt a 'request' would be coming and in all honesty it probably was and would have happen whether you were in the shop or not. I still think it was a mistake standing outside as it would have personafied the distrust and her respect for you slide.

I'm thinking though, if this relationship was not already doomed by and intent or person she was and I'm not sure if it was as there seemed to be some closeness there. That the main reason may have not so much been the standing outside the shop but your pursuing of sexual intercourse. Now this is natural and understandable to us men at least, but even in your description you tell us that she wasn't that responsive to your advances at first, even for a while. I do wonder if she may have felt pushed into it or at least it was an area you perhaps should have left to naturally develop.

It might have been resentment that made her act so or some other reason more native to the Ukraine scene. I have heard that a woman requesting stuff is part of dating gameplay over there (from a Russian lady member of this forum). Now I know also that some FSW will give a guy sex in return for a good meal out as a form of returning the favour. It could well be having thought about it that some women take this on a vice versa basis. That if a guy wants sex then he should be prepared to return the favour in terms of buying her stuff, giving her money, etc. Not necessary a fixed deal or set amount, just a kind of unspoken code, i.e so it does not sound like it is an unsavoury escort type of relationship/deal.

In fact there could likely be some emotional feeling and attachment between the two parties, and like said the carrying on is just dating gameplay. The excuses she gave for wanting the money could just be a way of giving a reason for the financial return of what she wants.

In any case I think the pushing for sex early on could have been the biggest mistake followed by giving into her demands. Even if it is part of dating gameplay a good negotiator will always hold out and give little away. I think that you gave away such big sums of money (for her at least) has probably made her lose all respect for you and the relationship is a non-runner in the long term. I would say take the experience of all of this and get out there and fish again.