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Author Topic: The Culture Shock Thread  (Read 5788 times)

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Online 2tallbill

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The Culture Shock Thread
« on: September 30, 2015, 12:35:44 PM »
I posted this in another thread, but would like to know how some of our experienced
members dealt with this after their honeymoon period.




Culture shock: is the personal disorientation a person may feel when experiencing an
unfamiliar way of life due to immigration or a visit to a new country, a move between
social environments, or simply travel to another type of life.


Here is the only thread I could find on culture shock. The OP linked to an article that I could no longer find.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1936.msg38874#msg38874

There is an author who wrote a book about pursuing and marrying an FSUW. It's pretty
good except for the section on agencies is a little out of date. He has a small section about
culture shock in it and you can find it on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Bride-Guide-Stuart-Smith/dp/0955687403


Here are some articles on the subject

http://matadornetwork.com/bnt/the-4-stages-of-culture-shock-and-how-to-beat-them/


http://studyabroad.uncg.edu/index.cfm?FuseAction=Abroad.ViewLink&Parent_ID=A80D5B59-AA4D-15A6-E5DDC6A5F2566BDE&Link_ID=B2E2ACBC-E64C-9B58-6BC68A8B2295E9FF&pID=9&lID=18


http://www.wikihow.com/Overcome-Culture-Shock-in-a-Foreign-Country


http://gadling.com/2010/05/24/ten-ways-to-deal-with-culture-shock/
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FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
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There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Gator

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2015, 02:07:01 PM »
CASE STUDY:  I married two different RW. 

One had zero culture shock.  The other felt stress for years.  The environment was about the same in both cases. Both are strong, independent women. 

KEY DIFFERENCE:  The stressed RW spoke limited English.  Yet, she had worked for considerable time outside Russia, first as a gymnast (age 18-20)) and as a fashion runway model (age 21-35).  One could say she had been catered to if not coddled far more than the other RW. 

Online 2tallbill

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2015, 02:11:19 PM »
CASE STUDY:  I married two different RW. 

Was there anything that you did that helped or that you would recommend to others?
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline ML

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2015, 02:21:21 PM »
I put this in another thread, but now that Big Bill has started a topic specific thread, I will move it over here.

- - - - - - - - -

Ochka didn't experience any cultural shock that caused her discomfort.

Biggest things seemed to be:

1) How fat many (most) women are, and many teenage girls also.  Yes, males also, but that doesn't cause her to comment.

2) How friendly most everyone is.

3) How nice most wealthy people are and how they do such things as their own yard work, minor house repairs, shop at WalMart, etc.  In Ukraine, wealth and power is accompanied by much snobbery.

We were at a University picnic a couple of weeks ago.  After talking with a man who sat beside her for 20 minutes while eating, she was surprised when I later told her he was a former University president.
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2015, 02:44:17 PM »
Was there anything that you did that helped or that you would recommend to others?

Two words:  understanding and patience.  I could not have done this as a younger man when I had the demands of being a partner in a rapidly growing business.   Pressed for time, there would have been much "tough love."

Offline Chicagoguy

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 03:35:27 PM »
Very much agree with Gator. Understanding and patience. Neither was my long suit.

Wife did not speak English. Culture was all new to her except Hollywood movies. Had never been married before so the give and take was new for her. I yelled at her once and she just looked at me said one more time and she would be gone. No conversation. Just gone. So Mr. patience changed. At least I became so much better that it has worked. God bless her since in reality she had to do the most changing. It must be a real challenge for most of these women. As if I had moved to China.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2015, 02:47:07 AM »
We honeymooned in St Petersburg at a Soviet institution, the In-tourist Hotel, part of a tour that was a gift from her family. We were part of an educational bus tour and as I have written about it extensively elsewhere, I won't go into the tour disaster here. Even with all the unexpected events we had a great time and survived (literally). The MGU professor who led the tour was outstanding, and we made new friends as it was during the New Year holidays and thus the majority were couples younger and closer to our age at the time.

The real adapting started a couple days before the honeymoon. I had moved out of my apartment into hers, which meant that my new home had a mother-in-law as "hostess." Many relatives had traveled from all over Russia and our apartment was packed, several cousins homes were packed and and Aunt/Uncle's apartment was stuffed with people. I was not accustomed to so many relatives and friends staying in homes, instead of hotels, for a wedding. There were and still are a multitude of reasons for that, including the then near nonexistence of budget to mid-range accommodations.

MIL did something gracious and moved everyone out of our apartment for two nights prior to our honeymoon trip. That meant that already stuffed homes became even more cramped, due to the wedding and the holiday. It was during the winter fast so we had visited the Patriarch's office to seek, and we received, an "economy" so that we could have the ZAGS wedding ceremony during the Nativity fasting season. Our formal dinner celebration was delayed until the night of Christmas on 7 January until the fast was completed so that other friends and our relatives could take part. By then we had returned from our honeymoon.

Even with all that, when everyone left, and that was a half day process getting everyone to where they were supposed to be, she and I stood in the entryway and started to laugh--the place was a mess. I recall sitting on the 7th floor landing outside our door and dropping beer and vodka bottles in the large metal trash tube that fed rubbish down to the main entrance trash opening. It was like music, hearing those bottles whiz down and smash, until the babushka who was on trash duty that day came charging up the stairs, no doubt planning to stuff me into that cylinder and send me down 7 floors. I had no idea an elderly babushka could move so fast. However, I moved slightly faster, and we later carried out the remaining bottles as we made various trips around the neighborhood.

Our wedding night had been with a full house, and so the two nights alone were glorious. The trip to Piter began that third evening, and it was memorable, not for good reasons but for the near disaster that came close to claiming lives by the time we reached Petersburg that morning. After washing some of the smelly crap off our winter boots and shoes from a middle of the night unplanned trek though a barnyard, the tour of Piter began and so we didn't check into the hotel until evening after a group dinner that was part of the tour.

Although we were not the last in the check-in line, we were held aside until last. The hotel staff noticed different family names on our passports. We had just been married at ZAGS a few days prior and some of those old stodgy Soviet folk didn't take too kindly to a man and woman sharing a bed with two different last names--especially when one of them was holder of an American passport. Thankfully, the tour directors stayed to make sure we were okay, and intervened. We surrendered our passports and were given a room key.

We entered a room straight out of the late 1960s, only to discover that nothing worked. No lights, no plumbing, etc. So, we rode the lift back downstairs and only after Mrs M started to cry, the registration staff finally scurried around to find another room. That room was from the mid 1970s, and some of the things worked--like one of the two lamps. The bathroom appeared to have no shower until we noticed a shower head immediately above the toilet, and it indeed worked. We just had to make sure that everything was cleared out because the shower head filled the small bathroom with lukewarm water.

There were two beds. Small, single beds, one on each side of the room. We pulled them together, but the thick wood frames left a gap in the middle large enough to fit a body, so we pushed them back and then tested each bed. The one on the right seemed to have the least sag and so we spent the rest of the week "sleeping" in that small bed together. It was great....a guy's dream!

On New Year's eve I purchased tickets to upgrade us from the normal tour dinner to the super duper deluxe hotel gala celebration. Seldom have I had so much fun, or angst, since. The food was endless and every time they cleared the table that we shared with another nice couple from the tour, the wait staff appeared with new platters overflowing with new dishes. Sometime in the middle of the morning we "raised the white flag of culinary surrender" and instructed the waiters to stop bringing food for us.

The entertainment was varied, and good. There was a whole series of concerts doing a round robin of the ballrooms in the hotel. A rock and roll group would appear on stage and for 35 or so minutes we'd dance to the 1960s. Then, a variety of Russian music bands played, each about 35 minutes or so. There was a stand up comic, and even an appearance from Grandfather Frost and the Snow Maiden.

The indoor fireworks display was a combination of alarming and amusing. Everyone was given sparklers to light, firecrackers, little rockets, etc, and there was an honest to goodness fireworks show on stage. With romantic candles at each table, and boxes of sundry stuff that would be illegal in most parts of the world, starting your own fireworks show was a cinch. Given that only 5 or 6 of of us among the 200 revelers were still sober, I could only watch in amazement as little rockets would fly into the ballroom window curtains and the wait staff would run over with brooms to snuff out any smoldering fabric. I concluded then and there that the country had no equivalent of fire codes, nor a Fire Marshall, because in any civilized nation that party would have been put on ice, pronto!

We returned to our room in the wee hours of the morning, exhausted, but it took awhile for me to sleep because I could not help but wonder if the folks in those ballrooms might set the whole works ablaze at any moment. When the sun arose, and it doesn't rise very early that far north in winter, the proud In-tourist hotel was still standing. After nibbling at some of the breakfast buffet items for energy, the tour continued.

The real adjustments began when we returned home. I had enjoyed life in my own Moscow apartment and had gotten to know several neighbors, had favourite places to shop, to eat, etc. While we had spent many weekends together with her family when courting, it was different being in her place 24/7. Now there was a MIL (mother-in-law) who entered into every conversation, was a daily part of almost every decision, and who had no boundaries on when it was okay to enter our bedroom. That, and some of my own attitudes that needed adjusting about her, nearly caused the onset of World War III, or as I would have called it then, the Great Matriarchal War. Fortunately, we both grew from that experience (or else I was drugged), and we are now the best of friends--but it took some time.

Mrs M had been divorced for several years, and she too had settled into a comfortable existence of her own. Now, suddenly there was a new man in the home, one who sometimes snored at night, and who often argued with her mother. She also felt like I needed to be coddled and tended to, because I was the migrant, but at times I found it to be smothering. She raced to introduce me to every American or Dutchman that appeared in Moscow, and frankly, I was fully capable of choosing which Americans/Canadians/Dutchmen that I wanted to include in my life without having strangers thrust in my face. I knew that she meant well, but frankly just because someone is from your homeland(s) does not mean that you are meant to cultivate friendships. (Think of that when you try to do the same for her in reverse.)

We were both adults, no longer young newbies, and once an adult you develop certain habits and tendencies. We had learn to bend and give, keeping and adapting some aspects of life, dropping some things, and then developing new traditions together. Fortunately, we both grew up in homes where books were superior to television, we shared appreciation for art and music, we share the Orthodox faith, we genuinely respect and admire each other, and we've bonded with our children. Those things are huge, HUGE, and I do mean HUGE when it comes to surviving marriage. You need to have shared anchors, because over time life will challenge any relationship, and without significant shared anchors many relationships will fail.

Few of these marriages last when one party, usually the husband, expects the other person to make all the adjustments. If you want to fail at this kind of marriage, adopt the attitude that she should cease to visit her family and homeland, that she is the only one who should learn some new language skills, or that her time honoured traditions are no longer important because she had moved to your country. Remind her that you "rescued" her from the hellhole that she called home.

I recall with fondness some of the things that Mrs M did to try to make me feel at home. For example, Thanksgiving was brought from the Netherlands to North America by the Pilgrims, and is celebrated in Canada too, but the holiday in my family experience is tied to the USA and Netherlands. Turkey is not a big menu item in Russia or Ukraine. They are sometimes raised on farms in villages, but there is no national holiday that calls for a turkey or ham on every table, and many Russians simply do not like the taste of turkey--go figure!

Mrs M and MIL apparently spent weeks trying to secure a turkey, unsuccessfully I might add. Neither was ham, cut in shank or butt style, very popular, probably due to not being accessible until more recently. Most meats, especially back then before the days of mega supermarkets in Russia, were compressed into round rolls, or hacked with knives at open air markets where the meat hangs out for everyone to touch, including the flies. So the ham at Thanksgiving in our first year of marriage, was a roll of something that might, or might not, have resembled ham. At least it was baked. Remember, it is the thought that counts.

It was fun to teach Mrs M and MIL how to prepare Western style yams, and green beans with mushrooms and onions. Just remember that a "yam" in Russian comes from the Mongol term for a route of some sort, like the Great Silk Road, for example. So to be sure that your lady understands, call it a sweet potato and she will know that you mean: сладкий картофель or батат. If you ask for a dinner with yams...it may be a very long ride.

Russians have perfected the art of mashed potatoes and they love cranberries, so they were delighted to learn that those were important dishes in the Thanksgiving feast. What was important is that they did it for me, and we shared much of the preparation together; thus bonding in the process. In that case, it wasn't just the food, but also the process that created another shared anchor. You might do well to adopt some of her holiday traditions just like they did for me.

Another area of adjustment is how to adapt indoors to heat and cold. Neighborhood centralized steam heating, combined with old and outdated steam radiators (that are often dangerous to adjust) has created a culture of extremes. My first winters even alone were an adjustment because as long as the central stations provide adequate steam, apartments heat up quickly. But if you dare not touch the aged pipes to make adjustments, how do you regulate the temperature? Most Russians and Ukrainians do this by opening and closing windows--in the middle of the winter. Most families have one window designated for such temperature regulation, usually not directly over sleeping areas. As you can imagine, the number of people living in a home will magnify any discussion/disagreements about what is too hot, versus too cold. Most of them opt for warmer than the typical Westerner and that can be uncomfortable at times.

You may think that the above has nothing to do with your modern home in Canada, the USA, Australia, etc. Think again. You lady may very well like things to be much warmer in winter, and she may have an aversion to ceiling fans, or even air conditioning in summer. Plus, she likely comes from a situation where utilities are centralized and subsidized. Thus, while you are keeping an eye on what that thermostat costs when it moves up or down, she may not grasp the cost concept as fully.

Most FSU apartments and homes are much smaller than your home. Your kitchen may seem like a ballroom compared to hers. That may not seem like much, until she starts opening cabinets and seeing all that "wasted" and "hoarded" food, etc, and begins to clean it all out one day while you are away at work. Think back to her kitchen: size matters naturally, but it isn't just the lack of counter-tops or storage space. Culturally, one of the reason why Communism was so attractive, were the Orthodox ingrained ideas of sharing and living on dependence upon a higher power (God, or with the Commies it was the government), and thus hoarding is a sin. Under the Soviets it was also a crime (unless you were a high ranking party member). Eventually she will began to Westernize in this respect, but do not be surprised if there are some early clashes on your "hoarding," etc.

You may have noticed that when in the FSU, she visited food shops daily, or at least several times weekly. Some of that does have to do with smaller storage spaces, smaller refrigerators, etc, but consider the other cultural possibilities as well. But do not fear, it won't take long for her to start loading up the family SUV at the big box stores with the best of them. For some, the change is quick, but for others it takes awhile. The quickest way to get an FSU lady to adopt your hoarding stocking up habits, is to mention one little phrase: "possible shortages." That usually does the trick, and she will feel no guilt.

Question: what are the first things she will quickly want to acquire upon arrival?

Answer: the same 4 things if she were at home: Mobile phone, clothing, cosmetics, and hair salon. Make your life easier and be prepared for those 4 "needs" immediately.


Communication back home is an issue of adjustment. Depending on her age, and the age of her family members left behind, this is an area of potential hurt feelings and frustration. She will want to communicate, a lot at first for most ladies. If she uses that new mobile phone for international calling, you will go broke quickly, so set up a good VOIP (voice over internet phone) system like Vonage, or others. That will keep you out of the poorhouse, and will allow her unlimited contact as she needs during the times of adjustment. And, VOIP providers like Vonage now allow customers to make international calls on your mobile phone without paying long distance to your local mobile carrier.

Finally, show her respect for her decision to follow you across the ocean. Make sure that others, friends to family, etc, see that respect. The secret to attracting a desirable woman is to make her feel good about herself when in your presence. That is everything from genuine compliments, to sharing decisions and responsibilities, to accepting her strengths and weaknesses. Be the number one cheerleader for her dreams and goals. Treat her like a lady. Refreshingly, if you will do those things, the size of your pocketbook will be a diminishing factor in why a genuinely desirable lady chooses to sail through life at your side. Be the kind of man that makes her feel good about herself, as this gives her confidence that you were the right choice.

I wish you both the best.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 03:10:47 AM by mendeleyev »
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Online Faux Pas

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2015, 06:46:47 AM »
Great Post Mendy!

Offline Larry1

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2015, 08:09:58 AM »
That was a great post!

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2015, 07:42:22 PM »
Thank you.

I'm also certain that there are many other good suggestions from others--so don't be bashful!
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Offline Gator

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2015, 09:14:27 AM »
Thank you.

I'm also certain that there are many other good suggestions from others--so don't be bashful!

Your post demonstrates again that you  are the master!   

There are two kinds of culture shock:  differences in actual culture and differences between husband and wife.  Some may attribute the latter to culture chock, yet it is more.  Happy assimilation will require much talking, listening,  reconciliation, and even resignation (particularly the small differences). 

One major issue with us were the complete overhaul of the home.    I lived in my house almost 20 years before marrying my RW, and a number of years as a bachelor.     Thus, I knew where everything was kept and stored.   My wife changed all: kitchenware, cooking ingredients, tools in the garage, closet space, bedroom drawer space, office stuff, furniture arrangements, TV locations, etc. 

I objected at first because  seniors don't like change (our memory is not the same).  I quickly deemed it  futile to object, and accepted  the house should be the way she wants it.  So today if I can not find something I merely ask her "Where is ...?"  If she does not know, her automatic response is  she never touched it so go look where I kept it before she arrived.  Not true, but that is another issue.

Then comes her desire to  redecorate:  paint color, wallpaper, curtains, etc.   Everything can become an issue, e. g. oriental rugs  (her: allergies;  me: art underfoot).  So I sell many of  my rugs. 

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The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2015, 12:23:56 PM »
My wife changed all

I objected at first

”We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your
biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to
service us. Resistance is futile.”

Angel Eyes changed a thousand things, 968 of them were good changes. She didn't
refrigerate some things that needed it. She eventually decided to leave my office
alone, although she moved everything in it a hundred times.

I merely ask her "Where is ...?"  If she does not know, her automatic response is  she never touched it so go look where I kept it before she arrived.  Not true, but that is another issue.

Angel Eyes knows 99% of the time where she put something. She jokes "it wasn't me"
all the time. She can drop a 2x4 on my big toe and she will look at me with her most
sincere and innocent look and say, "It wasn't me!" 

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Chicagoguy

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2015, 02:34:00 PM »
Good story Mendy. An adventure really. We must hang on for the ride some of the time.

I was surprised how well my wife adapted considering :
She was older - as am I.
Didn't speak any English
Very much liked old Soviet Union and their ways.
Had never been married so was not as accustomed to the give and take required
Had many of the same Russian habits and folklore that many here have mentioned

To accommodate her she goes back home every year for 1 to 3 months. I go every other year for 2 weeks.
Left behind daughter, older father and 3 sisters. Thank God for Skype.

If situation was reversed - as she often suggests - I am truly sure I could never survive. So to her goes 90%
of the credit.

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2015, 09:33:44 PM »
Culture shock usually involves a few stages. First there is the euphoric tourist phase where everything is exciting and wonderful; then there is the everything is awful in this country; then there is the final, yes, there are good things here, good things there. A good command of English is certainly beneficial, but not always a panacea. Even in the worst of cases, the worst phase, the second, usually does not last more than a year. Then, there is the reverse culture shock when one goes back "home" realizing that one can never truly go back home.

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Re: The Culture Shock Thread
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2015, 04:48:20 AM »
My wife does somehow balance the two lives. Takes the best from each and does not complain but sometimes mentions. Because she has turned out to be so adaptable it has forced me to try and make a similar effort. She can smirk when she discovers I was wrong. But this keeps her happy.

My unsaid mantra was always Cotempt Prior To Investigation. Looking back I now know I missed a lot. In the end it was the Russians and the women there who opened my eyes. That and European and Asian travels.

 

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Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by ML
Today at 10:31:43 AM

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