She did it! She Got the Visa!!!

[Turboguy]

Thanks for all the good thoughts.   We sound like we have a similar background Clyde.   I too was a bit of a shy child, an only child and tend to supress my anger.   I am actually pretty good at just letting things roll off my back.

I am excited for you Doug.   I think you will be fine and your happiness will be continued and even grow. 

For me, When I say things are 50-50 it is far more uncertainty with Luda than with me.   I would do whatever I could to build a good relationship with her.   She seems to spend all her time looking for things to get angry about.   Just to give a few examples.   She got upset because I went to the laundramat without taking her clothes (Our drier is on the fritz)   The only thing is, I didn't go to the laundramat.   I brought a few long sleeve shirts from the other house because the weather is getting cold.   Yesterday we were eating salads for lunch with the group in the office and I had picked off my tomatoes which I don't like.  I asked her if she wanted them because she likes tomatoes.  Well evidentally that is not done in Russia and she said it was humiliating that I offered her my scraps.   She gets angry over things I don't even do.  When we were in Virginia Beach they rented bikes and cute little pedal cars.   I thought the cars would be fun and asked her if she wanted to rent one and she said no.   Yesterday she was telling me that she was upset that we did not rent one.

The age difference does not seem to be much of a problem.  We enjoy a lot of the same things.  We have been riding bikes a lot,  been to the amusement park, the beach,  Tonight we are going on a haunted hay ride and tomorrow to a halloween party.   We are having a lot of fun.  Our only problem is that she spends a big part of her time angry and she worries too much about the communications which are ok.  I will talk to her but she keeps things in.  When I can't read her mind she gets upset.  We have about 31 days left on the Visa.  I think next week I will be shopping for plane tickets.   I am not sure if it will be for her to go to Russia or for us to go on a Honeymoon but right now I think the 50-50 odds are starting to move the wrong way.   Other than the fact she stays angry with me all the time she is the most amazing and wonderful woman I have ever met.

[Son of Clyde]

Turbo,

The anger thing I can relate to also.

Iryna got angry because I wore a t shirt to work because she wants me to dress nicer. She gets angry when I fail to remove my shoes in certain rooms of the apartment. She got extremely angry because I took her dog to the vet when she was out of town for a few days and had his hair clipped. The dog is a Shih Tzu and I had the hair around his eyes trimmed but they cut the hair on top of his head because he would not hold still. She got angry because I woke her up a few times in the morning when she wanted to sleep. And she says I lose my temper over trivial things.

You are a better man than I because I tend to lose my temper when I feel pressured or stressed out. I need to be the rock and learn to keep my anger in check unless there is something to really get angry over.

[Turboguy]

I have dealt with people my whole life and found you never win by getting angry.   It takes a whole lot to really get me angry and I never loose my control but if someone does take me to the point of anger they really don't want to be around me.  I think because people never seem me angry, when the do it sorta shocks them a bit.   Luda came close to seeing that in Moscow once.   I think it is the only time she got close.

She can get upset with me over a tomato that I offer her, just to give an example of something I did not get upset over when we were in Moscow for the ill-fated interview we went to Gorky Park.   I asked her how she liked Gorky Park.  She answered.  " It is nice, but I wish I were here with my friends instead of you so I could be having fun"  To me that is a sort of mean and hateful statement but I let it roll of my back and it was the only mean thing she has said since I have known her, and it was the day after the interview which as everyone knows did not go well.

Perhaps anger is just part of the Russian way of life.   I have met a lot of FSU women but most were short term.   The only two I spent extended periods with both seem to get angry a lot over nothing.

[Son of Clyde]

I personally don't think they are angry at us as much as lonely and homesick.

Iryna for the most part is home all day and she wants to be working and to have friends.

They don't want to say it directly but I know they miss their family and friends and they get irritated easily. It is probably a release mechanism to become angry rather than to cry all day because their parents and close friends are gone. They choose the people closest to them to release the anger on. I think it is why Iryna gets so affectionate later on. Maybe it is a little guilt too.

If I were in their shoes I would probably have similar ways to deal with the anger.

Hi Guys,

Thank you Turbo Ray Dude:D, I think we will be very happy if I did not she would not be on her way.

I just want to through in my 2 cents here if you two do not mind.

I two got a glimpse of some behavior I did not care for when I was in Russia with Marina. I can tell the details later if your really interested, but I just want to get to the point for now.


Basically she behaved in such a way that I would not and could not ever tolerate. Now I have been around a bit and I also know myself very well. Therefore at this point in my life I just come right out with it. No pulling punches to save feelings no babying a baby. I told her this is totally unacceptable and I will not now or anytime in the future put up with this.

We spent many hours talking and now we understand each other very well. See basically I told her I am with her to find happiness, therefore the minute she starts inducing the opposite feelings we will part ways. It is that simple. I told her I love her to pieces and I do, but I have been down the other road and if you let a woman jerk you around like this she always will. It may sound cold hearted, but it is pure honesty. This relationship has been and will continue to be built upon this or it will end. I told her this too, tell me your secrets now as I have told you mine. I told her everything and invited her to openly ask me any question, which I will answer without hesitation. This is a new approach for me but I think its is the right one.

I want this to last forever and I think if I do not make her happier than she has ever been (which she says I do) and vice versa then this is not a basis for marriage. I believe this and this is how we will proceed. Nothing less will do. I would not want her to stay with me if she was not completly satisfied, I love her too much to sacrifice her happiness for my own.

Now I do not know if this helps you any and I do not want to judge you guys, but this is my way of seeing things.

Good Luck Fellas,

I pray all things turn out as they should.

Doug

[Turboguy]

I think Luda would go nuts sitting home every day.   She seems to have a real problem with that.    I have her working in my office about half the time and helping with a remodeling project on a rental property a few days.   I am paying her for both in cash. 

Luda met one friend.  A gal her age from Ukraine in her English classes but Luda won't call her becuase she says she would have nothing to talk about.  The other girl is happy and she is not.   It is probably better for her friend Oxana if she does not.  Next thing you know Oxana would be complaining if John offered her left over tomatos.   I think there are people who make themselves miserable and I am beginng to think that Luda is one of those.   Luda is starting to get more comfortable around people and that is helping some.  We are having a lot of good talks about our problems right now.  I hope that something might sink through to whichever of us needs it or both.   I think the next week or less will tell the tale. 

[Turboguy]

Thanks Doug,

I appreciate the input.  I think your ideas are right on.  To me life together should be about happiness not about taking your frustrations out on your mate.   I think when you have clear cut ideas about what is acceptalbe then everyone knows where they stand.  

I have tried this with Luda but her ideas and mine are pretty different, perhaps too different.  I hope not.   We do our serious communications on paper, writing letters to each other which she can understand better than verbal.  I have to go pick her up for work now but I expect a few pages of her response when I do. 

You have a good plan Doug.  You both will be happy.  I would write more but I have to go for a bit.

[catzenmouse]

I also think that the anger/frustration has a lot to do with all the changes and with her missing everything she has ever known. There is no comfort zone here and probably won't be for a few months (maybe many months) to come.

Elena eased up after we moved into a less rural area, that was making her crazy, and is doing really well with her work but still does not like the people in general and the typical "political correctness" and fake smiles of Americans grate on her nerves.

Yesterday we got a letter from USCIS saying that they needed her chest x-ray results for the AOS. The idiot Civil Surgeon did not check the box saying that she had the x-ray and that everything was fine. I got the corrected form today and mailed it out (we've been switched to the California processing center - go figure) but she is pissed at the doctor now for delaying yet again this process due to stupidity and laziness on the part of others out of our control.

Clyde, Turbo, I really hope things work themselves out for you both. Elena has seen me really pissed once and that was at DMV for jerking us around (three trips back home to get one more document that they kept forgetting to tell us that we needed) to get her learners permit. After dealing with USCIS and working at the Fed I truly believe that those guys who go "Postal" at a government job are quite justified! (not serious but maybe close)

Doug, sounds like you've got a good head start on a great future!

Ken

You know the truth is you can talk, visit, email etc for years, but until you live together you just never can be certain. I'm sure more than one of us has experienced this before. You date someone for the longest time; then they move in. Everything is cool for a while then it happens. They relax and start to be themselves. Clothes on the floor maybe? Maybe you got a farter, heaven forbid!

Point is until I am put in your guy's place I am just all talk! But I do have faith! Best of luck guys and have a great weekend! I know I will:D!!!

 

Doug

[MandM]

Turbo,

I can totally relate to the anger issue. It is a lot to do with being away from your family, being in a foreign country and feeling frustrated. You don't know what's normal, so you take offense of everything just in case. I felt that people didn't understand me,  I was all alone, that everything was going wong. I used to get so frustrated that I'd throw plates on  a regular basis. It wasn't much china left in our house.!

If it's any consolation, things do get better. I don't remember when I broke a plate last time, probably about 1,5 years ago.

As for Luda getting offended by you offering her left over tomatoes, I can understand that. I wouldn't get offended myself, but I am not surprised she did. You two have very different perceptions of some things. One simple fact, and two totally different reactions. The only solution for this is communicating. I tend not to express my feelings straight away and let things get bottled up. Don't let her do that. Keep talking about everything. Enrolling her into yoga or a martial art class would help her to release her anger in a healthier way.

 

[Turboguy]

Thanks MandM,   I have brand new china so fortunately she has not started throwing any yet.  I really appreciated your insight into things. 

Decision time is fast approaching.  We have under a month left.  (4 weeks exactly).  I got into this knowing she was going to be a handful but she is also a really wonderful person in spite of that.   I think it is going to be more her decision than mine.   I think I am too hooked on her to want to send her back.   She has really big mood swings.  We go about 4 days that she wants to make it work then 4 that she thinks she would like to never see me again.   I think she worries about all these tiny things and decides she can not live with such a terrible person who would offer her tomatoes he does not want, then the reality that she has to go back to a life that she wanted to get away from sets in and all of a sudden to tomatoes do not look so bad.

Yesterday, it was that I got the munchies in the evening and went to get something she does not particualarly like and did not offer her any.  When she eats something I don't like, she just usually gets it and starts eatiing.  When I did the same I was evil becuase she had been waiting on me hand and foot all day and I did not offer her any.   Waiting on me hand and foot was making dinner and offering me coffee when she was having some and making a little fruit bowl which was great but gave me the munchies that got me in trouble again.

Two days ago I would have rated our chances at zero, now she is in the trying to make it work mode.   I start to get my hopes up and that mode seems to last for 3-4 days and it is back the other way.  The final decisons have to be by the end of this week.  

[anono]

4/16/05 - Trip to Russia.
4/21/05 - I'm engaged.

hope it works. you'll defy the odds

[Voyageur]

I can relate to many of the things said here also. Sometimes it seems that arguing has a different purpose for women born in the FSU than people born in America. Often, (after the fact), later upon reflection, it seems as if arguing can be another form of communication and fact-finding and even a sport of some sort. I have had arguements for bad decisions I made in the far past (as in my choice for my first wife), that have been understood for months.

A great deal of patience is required and as M&M says, everything is so different here, that we must understand how hard adjusting to this new life is.

[MandM]

4/16/05 - Trip to Russia.
4/21/05 - I'm engaged.

hope it works. you'll defy the odds
[/quote]
Good luck to doudis but I can't imagine that anyone can make a relationship work based on 5 days engagement. He should be so lucky!

Turbo, I read so many RW complaining on the forums that their husbands eat something without offering it to them (even if they can't stand that food). I don't get it why it is such a big deal for some, when you can go and get it yourself, but it is. So for God's sake please offer her everything!! (as long as it is not your left overs!) It shows that you care.

To be honest, I wouldn't want to swap places with you and having to make tough decisions like that!

[Turboguy]

Thanks MandM.   I think you posts have been really helpful for me.   I think we all know that adapting to a new life is hard but your insight having gone through it is really comforting.

Luda is not the easiest person do deal with but she is really a terrific gal.  There is a couple of things that really bother me and it bothers me that she is so private.   You never really know what is going on inside that head of hers.   Whatever decisions we reach need to be soon.   Time is running out and I have no intention of getting married without  a pre-nup and that will take some extra time under the circumstances. 

Voyager, thanks for your comments too.  I am sure you are going through at least some of the things I am since our timelines were very similar.   

As far as Doudis goes, I think a lot of people who know each other for a few days and get engaged are bucking worse odds than they realize.   I think in Doudis's case he will be fine.   I think the motivations both have and the time they spend commuicating can change the odd's in a big way.    Personally I think if they both want to make a happy marriage and have a happy life together and have some good communications the chances are better.   There is just more of an element of chance involved.  

If someone just wants to get away from a life they don't like the chances are less.   I can remember one of the american gals I dated a long time ago telling me she married a guy she did not really like that well to get out of Kane PA which is a little burg in the mountains with nothing but trees and deer.   She got to live in beautiful Erie, PA,  which is one of the several cities the residents call the mistake by the lake.   Erie can be more drab than the worst of the soviet cities.   I am talking about the more drab FSU cities in soviet days not some of the ones in the FSU that are really quite beautiful.   

[KenC]

Turbo, Clyde, Voyager (and soon Doudis),

What you guys have to understand is that you are the focus of your RW's anger for all that is wrong in America.  "Wrong" meaning "different" from what your women are used to in the fsu.  Being fresh out of their comfortable enviornment, they are more than a bit confused and stiffled by their new surroundings.  That fear of this unknown country, culture and language manifests itself into anger and guess who gets the brunt of it?  You!  As you are the one person that is responsible for her being in her current position.  At this early stage of your new relationships, all that is good about America doesn't matter.  Just that they are fish out of water is the driving emotion.  How do you handle this position you find yourself in?

One thing that might help is to encourage your wife/fiancee to communicate with another RW who has gone through the process. 

Turbo,

You should really force Luda to have a conversation with the other RW you spoke of.  By "force", I mean you could set up a social meeting with the other lady and her hubby. 

Clyde,

Maybe those long phone conversations you wife is having with her sister are doing her more good and are a lot less sinister than others have suggested.

In any case, it is easy to become frustrated and angry when it appears like you are being attacked for no good reason.  But that doesn't help anything.  What worked for me was to think that Lena just didn't yet understand the whole picture.  I would calmly try to explain just whatever her current source of displeasure was.  Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't, but above all, do not take her displeasure in America in general personally.

The biggest problem I had with Lena's acclamation to America (and me) was her constant negative attitude.  I think Russians come here with the mind set that whatever can go wrong will, while we Americans think that everything that can go well, will.  The truth is some where in the middle.

I hope this will help.  Best of luck to all of you.  It does get better in time.  But then time is something that some of you do not have.

KenC

[catzenmouse]

Excellent post KenC. There are times (quite often sometimes) where Elena is still showing this. I agree with some of her disappointments and observations and try to explain that this is a different place, people, customs, culture and that with some time she will become more used to it and understand it better. I think I've seen her come a long way towards this and then out of the blue there is a wild woman next to me.

She got her first paycheck yesterday (actually was two of them as it took awhile to get her into the system) so she was happy and at the same time saying "I worked a month for this?" I told her that is what I feel every payday. It really does get better and I hope you all get those questions answered before your time runs out.

Ken

[KenC]

Ken,

It takes a long long time for you RW to truly become an Americanized version of their former self.  I always held on to the thought that her "angry" phase would pass and it did, but it took longer than I originally thought.

KenC

[Voyageur]

I am just wondering, how long did this process take? Of course, I know that each individual is different, but there remain many similarities between experiences I have read about on these forums and my personal experience.

I don't know if my wife will ever become truly American. I really do not want this to happen - (almost as much as she does not want this to happen, either). I really like the "Russian soul" we hear so much about. It is quite unique to experience first-hand, although sometimes the ride does get a bit bumpy (sometimes).

Really, I think that the type of woman raised in the FSU will be much different than the type of woman raised in the Russian (Or Ukrainian) Federation. My wife was born in the USSR, but is still around 30 years old, which is rather young. But she says there is a big difference in family values and attitudes in women from those raised after the USSR was dissolved.  Hearing her describe the education system and the way of life for the people of the USSR sounds so completely different from the propaganda we (in the US) we heard about the Soviet Union.:?

[Bruno]

But she says there is a big difference in family values and attitudes in women from those raised after the USSR was dissolved. Hearing her describe the education system and the way of life for the people of the USSR sounds so completely different from the propaganda we (in the US) we heard about the Soviet Union.

Socialist ( communist ) time was not so bad for usual worker... everybody access to health, work and education... the main problem of communisme was with intellectual, these with new idea... but for usual people, communisme was not so bad... now, the middle class tend to dissapppear... you have a few new rich and a lot of new poor people...

In itself, the socialist system was not bad... the main problem was the corruption and a country closed to the rest of world ( no commercial exchange )...

Each type of lady, before or after the dissovle of USSR ( peretroiska ) have his problem or advantage...

About a RW married to Western man who become a fully WM with type, it can be the real nightware... for these who wish a woman like a western women, the simple way is marry a western women... but russian women are not specialy easy... they have very strong character... if you are not yourself strong enough, they will dominate yourself... it can seem strange to say this but RW are not for everybody... if you are a looser in western country, you will be two time looser with a RW... if you can be the real male ( nothing to make with alpha or beta ), you will be really happy with a RW.

And really, don't hope that a RW will become like a American woman... she will integrate, adapt to his new< country but she will stay with a russian mind... for you pleasure or suffert...

[KenC]

Really, I think that the type of woman raised in the FSU will be much different than the type of woman raised in the Russian (Or Ukrainian) Federation. My wife was born in the USSR, but is still around 30 years old, which is rather young. But she says there is a big difference in family values and attitudes in women from those raised after the USSR was dissolved. Hearing her describe the education system and the way of life for the people of the USSR sounds so completely different from the propaganda we (in the US) we heard about the Soviet Union.:?

Your wife is of similar age to mine.  I cannot speak for the younger women that may not have a vivid recollection of soviet times, but I people change a lot over time, but their core beliefs remain some what consistant.

KenC

[catzenmouse]

And really, don't hope that a RW will become like a American woman... she will integrate, adapt to his new< country but she will stay with a russian mind... for you pleasure or suffert...

I hope that Elena never becomes an AW. I did not go half way around the world to have an AW. Been there done that, never again! If a WM is thinking that this is what he wants he would have to be a true idiot.

If all works out with us like KenC stated then that would be the best of all possible outcomes.

Ken

Hi,
 
This is what I just posted on VJ about Marina's arrival. Enjoy!
 
BTW so far so good on her acclimation. She is happy as I have ever seen her!
 
Doug
 
Hello Everyone!
I don't know how to start but to say, I am the happiest man on Earth!!! She is here!!!
The past few days since I met her at the Tom Bradley International Terminal in LAX have been a bit of a blurr, but I will try to relate some details for those who are interested.
Like I said I met her at TBIT, I had flown in from Phoenix. My travel was totally uneventful and I arrived at the reception area for TBIT about 1 hour before she was to arrive. BTW you cannot go back and help with the luggage. The traveler must get it themselves and bring it to the reception area.
Anyway her plane was about 20min early and this after leaving about 20min late. This was a cool way to start. After the sign said her plane was in I had to wait about 1/2 hour before I saw her gorgeous face hauling her heavy bags up the exit ramp. A more beautiful sight these eyes shall never see
When she finally got to where I could help we did what you would expect, ( I think her back will recover) just kidding. LOL. After we said our hello's she introduced me to a "baushka" (Russian term for elderly woman) whom she had sat with on the plane. What was so ironic was out of the entire huge country of Russia, the woman they placed next to Marina was from the same city. Marina was very happy about this. Well this woman was having trouble with her bags so Marina helped. Then when she finally got to the reception area her daughter was not there to meet her. Poor lady does not know what to do so we help her to call her daughters cell phone. She is ok now, they are just stuck in the helacious L.A. traffic. Marina wants to stay and wait to meet them, but I explain if we leave right now we may be able to catch an earlier flight home. She agrees and we rush off to the domestic terminal (#1) for Southwest.
Wow we just made it and we even got B boarding (actually were were last on the plane)! The plane was not full so we got good seats together and Marina was even able to get a window seat which she loved! She was really excited about the night time view coming into Phoenix.
It was 40 degrees when she got on the plane in Moscow, 64 and sprinkling in L.A. then she steps outside in AZ. 85 and clear as a bell. She likes it:).
Our bags made it to the carousels in record time. Actually the first time they ever got there before me! So we collect our bags and headed to my truck. I gave her a little surprise; I parked on the airport roof so she would have a view of the city, she appreciated this a lot. Oh I forgot, yes I did have 11 roses for her when I met her in L.A., in Russia even numbers are only for funerals.
She loves the truck. We drive home. I have her wait a moment as I go in and set things up for her. Get cake out of fridge, light candles, etc. She comes in and tries to take all things in. Mom had also contributed quite a lot to her reception. I give her a tour and a glass of wine. We toast and she is off to the shower (long day to say the least).
She is welcomed to a cozy fireside Champaign and Strawberry feast I set up while she was showering. The room is lit by scented candle light and the fire, we snuggle in for a wonderful evening of love and tenderness (L) .
So that is it; this is how Marinas trip to America went. She told me everything went absolutely perfect. She flew on one way tickets and no one batted an eye. She got the window seat I wanted for her. She flew thru customs on both ends. She said incoming immigration took all of 5 minutes and that they were very nice.
Thank you all for your support, we could not be happier!
   (L)  :dance:  (F)
Doug

[KenC]

Doudis,

Now that is how it is suppose to be!  Good luck (and don't forget to give the girl a little rest too!):cool:

KenC

[jb]

What a refreshing change from what we usually hear around here.  Good luck to the two of you, I hope the coming months are as sweet.