Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: Trenchcoat on August 11, 2017, 04:07:45 PM
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Ok guys (& girls) at the risk of offending TMD still further I feel compelled to ask another question, namely, which City in the FSU do you guys think I should go to?
Not in order of preference my thoughts are:
Kharkiv - Ukraine easy to get into and stay a while, I have not been to Kharkiv yet and here it may have plenty of girls to chose from. I may see if Mila can be of assistance. However, I wonder if Ukraine is just a bad place to look for a girl even though they have some beautiful women there I fear I am stacking the odds against me searching in region full off girls with no good motives.
St. Petersburg - a touristy city I have not been to. The Visa issue is difficult for UK citizens. It seems like you need to pay for where your staying first to then get a stamp necessary for the visa, crazy. I'm thinking the trouble and extra expense might well pay off and end up cheaper than messing around with Ukraine and a dodgy dating scene. Also more to do there, I could meet up with Sprotz ;) show him the ropes.
Tiblisi - Georgia is even easier than Ukraine for UK as it looks like they allow you to stay there for a year visa free. Looks pretty there, from the internet and again never been. Girls there look like they may be more the type to go for a guy they really want to be with from what I have heard. However, while a girl not putting it about too much is good from an STD point of view if she is too uptight with intimacy/affection then I think it might be a problem. I'm also not sure if the georgian girl type of look is one that would attract me plus I'm not sure of the number of girls available for dating.
So there we are, I'm looking to stay in whichever city seems best for at least a month, most probably longer. Feel free to suggest other cities. I thought of Minsk but not sure if a good place to be and visa issues again. Other more far flung cities in FSU possible but without a specific girl to go there for seems like sticking a pin in a map to me.
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Based on your question, I sort of doubt 'common sense' is not part of your vocabulary.
May I suggest Atlantis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AUEjzVQwKo
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I highly recommend Kharkiv and Dnipro.
And there is nothing wrong with Ukrainian women anymore than there is with women in any other FSU country.
I think Belarus may be the best of all places to go. I haven't been there, but am impressed by everything I have read from guys who have gone there.
I have laid out the steps in Starting Out about how to avoid scammers, no matter where they may be.
I have had correspondence (thousands), meetings (hundreds) and relationships (dozens) with Ukrainian women with hardly any scammer problems. Less than 5% I correspond with, 1% I met with, 0% I had relationship with.
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Here's an idea. Communicate with lots of women no matter where they live. Find one you click with and she clicks with you. Visit her no matter where she lives. Fall in love with a woman, not a city.
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Based on your question, I sort of doubt 'common sense' is not part of your vocabulary.
May I suggest Atlantis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AUEjzVQwKo
BdHvA I love that song Atlantis. I remember vividly the day I saw "Goodfellas" in the movie theater. And I remember vividly both this song and this scene from, IMO, one of the 5 greatest movies of all-time and Martin Scorcese's finest work as a director (again IMO). Scorcese is my favorite director, he is "The Master". Yeah, Goodfellas is absolutely one of my favorite movies of all-time. Atlantis is a great song, and man the second I clicked on your link, BdHvA .....instantaneously the thought that popped in my head was ""Goodfellas - Bar Scene"".
Atlantis starts at 1:05 of the youtube clip and runs to the end of the clip. Great song Man, brings back a lot of great memories. Goodfellas is the finest mob movie ever made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_pvKEfTDk4
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Here's an idea. Communicate with lots of women no matter where they live. Find one you click with and she clicks with you. Visit her no matter where she lives. Fall in love with a woman, not a city.
Nope :D not getting into that one again. For some that have the time to devout countless hours of chitter chatter, messaging, Skype and going out to meet a woman at the end of it that they get on well with and is sincere (at least until she see's there is anything there) but may not be into them just isn't for me. I don't like the idea of being fixed up with a woman for a week or whatever then finding on arrival there is nothing between us or some other weird situation. I'm not the type of guy that finds it easy dropping someone I've made commitments to even if it is just to see each other unless of course it's painfully obvious there is nothing there and neither of us are enjoying it or she is a real bitch or scammer type. I would rather go with my hands free, do all the searching in a particular city, do a series of meets until I find the woman there is chemistry with on the basis that the woman there is chemistry with everything will (hopefully) fall into place since she will be wanting to make it work as much as me. I personally think it will be fun to meet many women and have no commitment until I wish to in person. I'm going to be in whatever city a while if I can help it so I won't need to rush it when there.
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For some that have the time to devout countless hours of chitter chatter, messaging, Skype and going out to meet a woman at the end of it that they get on well with and is sincere (at least until she see's there is anything there) but may not be into them just isn't for me.
How many hours did it take type over 900 posts? You could've cut and pasted thousands of introductory messages and sent them to thousands of women. You've also read way more posts than you typed. How many hours did that take? You have plenty of hours. Apply it in better ways. It's understandable you are worried about spending lots of time and then getting involved with the wrong girl since you struck out on the last two. The problem isn't the method you used. The problem is how you analyze women. Practice makes perfect so talk to a bunch of women and learn to read them better. A few guys here told their story to you about the things their women said and did to prove they were "into" their man. Your women were never into you and you hung onto them much longer than most of us would.
If you choose to visit a city, you may run into the same problem as you did before when meeting women. You won't be able to tell which girl is best for you and which girls you need to discard. Also, the way you talk and act in front of women may turn off the girls you're trying to attract. Think about those things and make necessary changes.
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Based on your question, I sort of doubt 'common sense' is not part of your vocabulary.
May I suggest Atlantis.
Now, now! Atlantis was never part of the FSU. :naughty:
I, however, was going to suggest Fairbanks, which was (sort of...). ;D
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How many hours did it take type over 900 posts? You could've cut and pasted thousands of introductory messages and sent them to thousands of women. You've also read way more posts than you typed. How many hours did that take? You have plenty of hours. Apply it in better ways. It's understandable you are worried about spending lots of time and then getting involved with the wrong girl since you struck out on the last two. The problem isn't the method you used. The problem is how you analyze women. Practice makes perfect so talk to a bunch of women and learn to read them better. A few guys here told their story to you about the things their women said and did to prove they were "into" their man. Your women were never into you and you hung onto them much longer than most of us would.
If you choose to visit a city, you may run into the same problem as you did before when meeting women. You won't be able to tell which girl is best for you and which girls you need to discard. Also, the way you talk and act in front of women may turn off the girls you're trying to attract. Think about those things and make necessary changes.
If I spam thousands of girls I could get hundreds of replies back, they will all take time to sift through and deal with. Id on't think a scatter gun approach will work well for me. I've got an idea of the type of girl I like and think best of going over there and calling as many of them up as I can until I get one with strong chemistry. Time as they say is money ;)
I think I'm a lot more in tune now with what I seek from a FSW and though my skills of analyzing women may not be as good as some I think if I'm able to assess the girl in person and find one with naturally strong chemistry then I won't need to worry to much about analyzing her. I don't feel I can do than from behind a computer screen, it kind of feels like I'm being blindfolded and told to go pick a girl.
I try to act decently in front of a girl and not may an idiot of myself. How exactly you mean with, "the way you talk and act in front of women may turn off the girls you're trying to attract" I don't really know. I mean I don't have the gift of the gab, not even close and I'm no 'in-crowd' type of personality. I talk to the girl as often and as best I can and though not an extrovert type I try not to be too quiet, I can speak up as needed if that's what you mean.
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If I spam thousands of girls I could get hundreds of replies back, they will all take time to sift through and deal with.
You're trying to catch one girl but you're complaining if a hundred girls want to talk to you? Some guys choose only one or a few girls to communicate with. What are the chances they will find the right woman with the small batch they've allowed themselves?
I've got an idea of the type of girl I like and think best of going over there and calling as many of them up as I can until I get one with strong chemistry. Time as they say is money ;)
It costs money to date those girls and dating takes time. The internet is just a tool. You can use this tool to filter out many of the ladies you're not compatible with prior to going over there saving you time and money. By showing up, you increased your chances of getting ladies to go out with you who would've never thought you are worth corresponding with. Women are less likely to pass up a date with a foreigner in town. You would be paying for the date and you won't know until after multiple dates whether or not she grows fond of you. Those ladies have no obligation to be a good hostess to you and take care of you while you're in town. Many of us discovered how much our women liked us based off their actions during our visits. We built a bond before visiting them. My wife met me at the airport and jumped up and down waving at me when she first saw me. She was a good hostess while I was there.
I think I'm a lot more in tune now with what I seek from a FSW and though my skills of analyzing women may not be as good as some I think if I'm able to assess the girl in person and find one with naturally strong chemistry then I won't need to worry to much about analyzing her. I don't feel I can do than from behind a computer screen, it kind of feels like I'm being blindfolded and told to go pick a girl.
I try to act decently in front of a girl and not may an idiot of myself. How exactly you mean with, "the way you talk and act in front of women may turn off the girls you're trying to attract" I don't really know. I mean I don't have the gift of the gab, not even close and I'm no 'in-crowd' type of personality. I talk to the girl as often and as best I can and though not an extrovert type I try not to be too quiet, I can speak up as needed if that's what you mean.
Even if you initially have good chemistry with a woman and have good conversations, you can still lose her. There needs to be things about you that would make her want to live her life with you. You need to earn respect. On a date, I told a lady that I recently fixed something in the house. She was impressed I could fix a house. She made the comment "It's nice to have a man in the house." You need to convey your talents and skills without bragging. A woman can love you if she doesn't respect you. Chemistry is only necessary for initial attraction. That alone it's not going to get you married. Many here think you're too tight and controlling with money. You will lose respect if that is true. You will continue to lose women regardless of how good a method you use to find them.
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If you are moving there to be an ex pat for awhile, then as far as women any city would work.
The reasons then become which city would you function best in and enjoy the most in tgat scenario.
You arnt bilingual so you're likely to be most comfortable and function best in kiev, st pete, or Moscow.
I don't think this is a great method unless you plan to integrate into the culture by holding a local job, teaching English etc., in that case it's good.
Otherwise it can easily become a extended stay that could be tedious and not much going on socially.
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as far as women any city would work.
Guys, one of them Maxx, reported girls in Georgia are harder to catch. I suspect they don't want to mix genes with outsiders as much as women from other parts of the FSU.
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If you are moving there to be an ex pat for awhile, then as far as women any city would work.
The reasons then become which city would you function best in and enjoy the most in tgat scenario.
You arnt bilingual so you're likely to be most comfortable and function best in kiev, st pete, or Moscow.
I don't think this is a great method unless you plan to integrate into the culture by holding a local job, teaching English etc., in that case it's good.
Otherwise it can easily become a extended stay that could be tedious and not much going on socially.
Well, I'm thinking off knocking down Kharkiv to my third choice, Kiev wasn't on the list since I've been their twice already and want a different scene. I'm not heavily into the performing arts/classical music and Kiev has a lot of that. Odessa I liked but has dating industry issue a bit and I've already done Odessa. I think I would need a new city to help keep me amused for a while. Tbilisi looks nice but I think the culture might be harder for me to grapple with than Russian culture I get the feeling. At the moment St. Petersburg looks a decent choice, its apparently the 'Gateway to Europe' and is quite English speaking orientated I've heard. I will try to brush up on my Russian a bit by next year but its not my main concern. I will have the money available to sit around and date all day if I like. After all the price of a couple of drinks etc is cheap compared to a clothes shopping spree, lol.
I'm still keeping my options open for other cities or perhaps the idea of moving on from one to another if no decent girls seem forthcoming in a reasonable amount of time.
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You're trying to catch one girl but you're complaining if a hundred girls want to talk to you? Some guys choose only one or a few girls to communicate with. What are the chances they will find the right woman with the small batch they've allowed themselves?
It costs money to date those girls and dating takes time. The internet is just a tool. You can use this tool to filter out many of the ladies you're not compatible with prior to going over there saving you time and money. By showing up, you increased your chances of getting ladies to go out with you who would've never thought you are worth corresponding with. Women are less likely to pass up a date with a foreigner in town. You would be paying for the date and you won't know until after multiple dates whether or not she grows fond of you. Those ladies have no obligation to be a good hostess to you and take care of you while you're in town. Many of us discovered how much our women liked us based off their actions during our visits. We built a bond before visiting them. My wife met me at the airport and jumped up and down waving at me when she first saw me. She was a good hostess while I was there.
Even if you initially have good chemistry with a woman and have good conversations, you can still lose her. There needs to be things about you that would make her want to live her life with you. You need to earn respect. On a date, I told a lady that I recently fixed something in the house. She was impressed I could fix a house. She made the comment "It's nice to have a man in the house." You need to convey your talents and skills without bragging. A woman can love you if she doesn't respect you. Chemistry is only necessary for initial attraction. That alone it's not going to get you married. Many here think you're too tight and controlling with money. You will lose respect if that is true. You will continue to lose women regardless of how good a method you use to find them.
I would have thought having a guy who has an eye for avoiding financial ruin would be something to respect a man for :D
I agree with you on so far as the numbers game is concerned but not the method. I would rather deal with it all there. I can message umpteen women and say to the respondents I feel most likely to hit the mark to meet up, Prioritizing the ones that look the best near the front as schedules allow. I can start a few days up to a week before departure so I've got warmed up by the time I'm there. I think since you never know sometimes when a girl with chemistry will show it will just be a case of looking for the type of girl I tend to like and running through them. After all there is no saying if you message hundreds of girls online if you might pass over some with chemistry. So might as well meet them one after another until I turn one up I think.
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As Billy mentioned I wouldn't bother with Georgia. Mainstream FSU culture is different enough, without adding in the complexity of Georgia.
You know Georgians stand out in any Ukrainian (or Russian ) city to a local,by many things including accent. The jokes are brutal and none PC as it gets, and that's part of FSU culture as well.
Anyway Kharkov is a university city, so while a lot of younger twenty somethings, and eye candy, I don't think it holds any more or less women in the age group you'd be better looking into
The agencies ,and agency girls, there are about as prolific and bad as Odessa, all without the beach .
Dnepropetrovsk is decent sized and nice,but again if you arnt going to teach English or have a way of integrating quickly it seems a tough way to go.
St pete would seem more Tourist and English prone, with a lot to do and see.
You've tossed the idea of finding the woman first, so this seems a crap shoot. Heck why not London, there are bound to be FSU women there?
I think there are a quarter million in my local US city ,as example and when single I dated several.
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I would have thought having a guy who has an eye for avoiding financial ruin would be something to respect a man for :D
Giving a family oriented woman the impression that you will take care of family will earn respect. You have to spend money to take care of family. Supplying good food, good clothes, good home, and good schools for the kids and wife will earn you respect. If supplying anything good for the family creates financial ruin for you, then you need to work harder. If you don't want to work hard, come to America. I seen profiles of women saying they are looking for a man with tattoos and piercings. They have a job to support themselves so the #1 priorities they are looking from a man may not have anything to do with his earning power and ability to support a family.
If you find a good woman and provide her with what she needs, she's not going to you to financial ruin. She will respect the money you earn and spend it wisely. With the last two girls you were with, there seemed to be lack of trust. How do you catch a quality woman? You don't need to be in the top 10% of men but you need to beat most of your competition. You need to be a man in demand and you can't be that man if you are cheap and greedy. Even if you try to hide that initially, women will figure you out. You're not going to change how you are overnight so it's best to make changes now.
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As Billy mentioned I wouldn't bother with Georgia. Mainstream FSU culture is different enough, without adding in the complexity of Georgia.
You know Georgians stand out in any Ukrainian (or Russian ) city to a local,by many things including accent. The jokes are brutal and none PC as it gets, and that's part of FSU culture as well.
Anyway Kharkov is a university city, so while a lot of younger twenty somethings, and eye candy, I don't think it holds any more or less women in the age group you'd be better looking into
The agencies ,and agency girls, there are about as prolific and bad as Odessa, all without the beach .
Dnepropetrovsk is decent sized and nice,but again if you arnt going to teach English or have a way of integrating quickly it seems a tough way to go.
St pete would seem more Tourist and English prone, with a lot to do and see.
You've tossed the idea of finding the woman first, so this seems a crap shoot. Heck why not London, there are bound to be FSU women there?
I think there are a quarter million in my local US city ,as example and when single I dated several.
Thanks Jumper, handy to know, I think Ukraine can be difficult for avoiding the worser aspects of the FSU dating scene.
I think I'll look into idea of St. Petersburg as the initial city to look at. Originally about 18 months ago it was the city I was going to visit first but then got sidetracked into visiting the girl rather than the city (mainly because I did not hide my profile and was a bit scattergun in approach). I think for someone like me that might be their a while its a better bet. I might try to learn the language a bit better and look into the foreign teaching more. I think due to visa costs and political situation they don't find it as easy to get English Language Teachers as they used to so my luck my be in if I can find somewhere a bit easy going to get into.
The London/UK scene with FSW dating, there are an odd few, never really tried a lot on that front as there are limited women of those X amount here that get on dating sites. Plus I think I'm up against a lot of the problems that exist with trying to date here and that has never worked out for me, the competition, girl's expectations, etc. I mean I'm a decent guy, I'm not balding & fat, etc but competition like I say is fierce and coming of second best is as bad as coming of third, fourth ,fifth, etc best. In FSU way more women to chose from and if I get the right woman & we get comfortable with each other then all could be good back in the UK.
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Giving a family oriented woman the impression that you will take care of family will earn respect. You have to spend money to take care of family. Supplying good food, good clothes, good home, and good schools for the kids and wife will earn you respect. If supplying anything good for the family creates financial ruin for you, then you need to work harder. If you don't want to work hard, come to America. I seen profiles of women saying they are looking for a man with tattoos and piercings. They have a job to support themselves so the #1 priorities they are looking from a man may not have anything to do with his earning power and ability to support a family.
If you find a good woman and provide her with what she needs, she's not going to you to financial ruin. She will respect the money you earn and spend it wisely. With the last two girls you were with, there seemed to be lack of trust. How do you catch a quality woman? You don't need to be in the top 10% of men but you need to beat most of your competition. You need to be a man in demand and you can't be that man if you are cheap and greedy. Even if you try to hide that initially, women will figure you out. You're not going to change how you are overnight so it's best to make changes now.
That's what the girl I was with said, yeah I'll just work all the time, lol. Seriously though I think I've found a way I can make more money than at present and will do in the future.
A girl doesn't have to be real frugal that I'm with but also not real spend happy so a happy medium would be good. I think I could probably get a more cautious shopper than the girl I was with. I see what you mean though, most of the burden, well pretty much all of it in FSU culture tends to be on the man providing everything. So I need to prepare well for this and things will improve on this front. I'm also quite heavily into DIY so bringing this up like you mention could be worth me remembering, many thanks :)
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Well just to update to all, been looking into St. Pete's this afternoon, as I thought on the visa front its a bit limited. I can only do a month on a tourist visa. I can get 3 months on a work visa though the only way I can think that would be feasible is to be a teacher of English. I certainly don't want to do a full time teaching job there so would have to look into part time work, I'm guessing for US citizens its easier than UK as Bounder on here moved to Moscow. A month is okay but really want at least 3 months to get to know girl & move in together in a domestic type of relationship.Will have to think about this some more.
BillyB been thinking what you've been saying about a girl respecting you in a relationship and I think you're dead right. If a girl thinks she can take liberties then she won't respect you and all is lost. So if I come across as weak, easily taken or not enough ability to provide on a continuous basis then that could be a problem. Also dependent on girl being into me and type of girl she is I think as some girls are more predatory and some needing more protection.
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Well just to update to all, been looking into St. Pete's this afternoon, as I thought on the visa front its a bit limited. I can only do a month on a tourist visa. I can get 3 months on a work visa though the only way I can think that would be feasible is to be a teacher of English. I certainly don't want to do a full time teaching job there so would have to look into part time work, I'm guessing for US citizens its easier than UK as Bounder on here moved to Moscow. A month is okay but really want at least 3 months to get to know girl & move in together in a domestic type of relationship.Will have to think about this some more.
BillyB been thinking what you've been saying about a girl respecting you in a relationship and I think you're dead right. If a girl thinks she can take liberties then she won't respect you and all is lost. So if I come across as weak, easily taken or not enough ability to provide on a continuous basis then that could be a problem. Also dependent on girl being into me and type of girl she is I think as some girls are more predatory and some needing more protection.
So your not going to do any pre-screening but put boots on the ground in a country where you don't understand the culture, not the language, and certainly not the girls - at all - and hope to meet up with the future mrs Trench, all this in 3 months AND be living together... like the first girl you will approach on the day you land will be the future mrs Trench :cluebat:
Did someone mention delirious?
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Did someone mention delirious?
Or hilarious?
The scope of the ridiculous is breathtaking!
But hey-- we called it on this guy months -many months ago -- and all he has ever done since is confirm !! :deadhorse:
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That's what the girl I was with said, yeah I'll just work all the time, lol.
Most girls won't tell you what your responsibilities are. They want a mature man and if you don't know your responsibilities at your age, they'll consider you immature and they'll dump you. Some girls may try to help you with advice so that you'll improve and other girls will manipulate you so that you'll work harder to buy them luxury items. You need to figure out the difference between girls when they give you the same advice. Most girls, when dating you, won't give you advice and just allow you to be who you are so that you hang yourself when you expose your flaws. It takes a lot of work to earn a lady's respect. It only takes one mistake to screw it all up. Figure out how to be the guy that doesn't make any major mistakes.
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Thanks Jumper, handy to know, I think Ukraine can be difficult for avoiding the worser aspects of the FSU dating scene.
I doubt rather highly there is a signficant difference between Ukraine and Russia. The only difference is if you are dealing with agencies.
I think I'll look into idea of St. Petersburg as the initial city to look at. Originally about 18 months ago it was the city I was going to visit first but then got sidetracked into visiting the girl rather than the city (mainly because I did not hide my profile and was a bit scattergun in approach). I think for someone like me that might be their a while its a better bet. I might try to learn the language a bit better and look into the foreign teaching more. I think due to visa costs and political situation they don't find it as easy to get English Language Teachers as they used to so my luck my be in if I can find somewhere a bit easy going to get into.
You consistently use "your" rather than the correct "you're" as but one example of your inadequate language skills in your mother tongue. Do you wish to inflict that faulty use of language on paying customers?
I mean I'm a decent guy, I'm not balding & fat, etc but competition like I say is fierce and coming of second best is as bad as coming of third, fourth ,fifth, etc best. In FSU way more women to chose from and if I get the right woman & we get comfortable with each other then all could be good back in the UK.
No matter where you go, you are you. If you can't make it with UK women, chances are you're not going to make it long term with an FSUW.
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BillyB been thinking what you've been saying about a girl respecting you in a relationship and I think you're dead right. If a girl thinks she can take liberties then she won't respect you and all is lost. So if I come across as weak, easily taken or not enough ability to provide on a continuous basis then that could be a problem. Also dependent on girl being into me and type of girl she is I think as some girls are more predatory and some needing more protection.
That's actually a really stupid piece of advice. You have to be who you are. You can't "be" anyone else.
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Guys, one of them Maxx, reported girls in Georgia are harder to catch. I suspect they don't want to mix genes with outsiders as much as women from other parts of the FSU.
?????
Georgian women couldn't care less about "gene mixing". They have no problems with dating foreign men.
It takes a lot of work to earn a lady's respect. It only takes one mistake to screw it all up. Figure out how to be the guy that doesn't make any major mistakes.
You must date some very unforgiving women.
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Tiblisi - Georgia is even easier than Ukraine for UK as it looks like they allow you to stay there for a year visa free. Looks pretty there, from the internet and again never been. Girls there look like they may be more the type to go for a guy they really want to be with from what I have heard. However, while a girl not putting it about too much is good from an STD point of view if she is too uptight with intimacy/affection then I think it might be a problem. I'm also not sure if the georgian girl type of look is one that would attract me plus I'm not sure of the number of girls available for dating.
Forget about Georgia and especially stop thinking you know anything about it.
Georgia is far too difficult. You wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell in being
successful there. However, you should probably go there and find out for yourself.
I am very good at meeting women and I struggled mightily.
The way to meet a Georgian girl is to move there. Convert to Orthodox, go to
Church every Sunday for 3+ hours and fast 100 days per year and meet with
the priest and have him make recommendations to you. If you do this for 1
year to 18 months you will probably have a girl who is willing to let you court
her. Don't get any funny ideas, you won't be able to kiss her for probably the
first year and her family will watch you at all times. Maybe in 6 months you
will be allowed to hold her hand or maybe they will decide they don't like you
and you can start all over again.
With your background and experience, yes by all means go to Georgia and
even better yet write all about it here before you go. You should be able to deduce
everything about the country by reading the internet. You would have a better
chance at starring in the NBA, you have a ball and a basket, the ball goes
in the basket, how hard can it really be? Surely those very tall men couldn't
be that difficult to outfox. You could buy a how to play basketball book on
Amazon. Or maybe just check one out at the local library that way you don't
have to pay for one. I've heard they pay those basketball players lots of money
and that hot girls throw themselves at them. That would be a better plan than
you going to Georgia.
I encourage you to travel to Georgia because the visa is so easy.
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I might try to learn the language a bit better and look into the foreign teaching more. I think due to visa costs and political situation they don't find it as easy to get English Language Teachers as they used to so my luck my be in if I can find somewhere a bit easy going to get into.
Based on what? Do you think you're the only man who's under the impression they can easily come to the FSU and meet women by teaching English? You're not, not even close.
I'm guessing for US citizens its easier than UK as Bounder on here moved to Moscow.
Bounder is Canadian.
most of the burden, well pretty much all of it in FSU culture tends to be on the man providing everything.
No.
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Based on what? Do you think you're the only man who's under the impression they can easily come to the FSU and meet women by teaching English? You're not, not even close.
Sure, how difficult could it be to learn all those silly rules or diagram
a sentence or to answer the 100 questions that they will get in a day,
and all they have to do is to answer it wrong or to say that they don't
know to lose the entire class.
I could ask 20 questions that have been asked of me over the years and
I doubt that most here would struggle to get any of them right without
Google.
I've dated at least a half dozen English teachers. English is a funny language
because we mostly spliced it together from other languages and made the rest
of it up as we went along. We have ZERO hard fast rules and exceptions to every
rule. How difficult would it be to travel to a country that has NOTHING but rules
without exceptions and teach them this?
I've been thinking about getting some sponsors and joining the PGA tour. With
sponsors I wouldn't have to buy my own clubs and I could get a nice tan with
all the outdoorsy stuff. What do you think? I've never broken a 100 in my life
but with practice I should get better. With all the sponsors I'll make sure that
I get lots of practice since they will be paying for everything, I could only get
better.
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How difficult would it be to travel to a country that has NOTHING but rules without exceptions and teach them this?
Without commenting on the substance of your post, there are a lot of exceptions to the rules in Slavic languages. Also, lots of words borrowed from other languages (French, German, Italian, Turkish, that I can think of off the top of my head).
I think Trench should go. That's what his "gut" has told him to do since Day 1. If he doesn't go, he will regret it. No matter what happens, he will have learned something from the experience.
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That's actually a really stupid piece of advice. You have to be who you are. You can't "be" anyone else.
You've criticized Trench for being the way he is and now you're telling him to be who he is? :wallbash: If Trench or anybody else here wants to be successful in life, they can't expect the world to change for them. They need to change. If Trench keeps finding he's meeting all the wrong women and doing all the wrong things to keep a woman, he's going to be very lonely for a long time unless he changes. Or he can keep doing what he's doing and listen to your criticism again and again.
You must date some very unforgiving women.
Maybe I've dated women with higher standards. Most don't feel sorry for losers and marry them. Losers get dumped.
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He can't pretend to be someone he is not. Telling him to do that is bad advice.
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He can't pretend to be someone he is not. Telling him to do that is bad advice.
I'm not asking him to pretend. I'm telling him he needs to make permanent changes if he wants to be an attractive man to the ladies. Right now it's obvious he's not doing to well on the path he's on.
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I've been thinking about getting some sponsors and joining the PGA tour. With
sponsors I wouldn't have to buy my own clubs and I could get a nice tan with
all the outdoorsy stuff. What do you think? I've never broken a 100 in my life
but with practice I should get better. With all the sponsors I'll make sure that
I get lots of practice since they will be paying for everything, I could only get
better.
Exactly.
Trench, while I'm not familiar with all of the rules, you generally do need a sponsor (employer) to arrange a work visa for you. Which means you need a job offer before you go, you can't just show up in Russia and expect to find work. If you want to teach English at a private English school you'll need a university degree, a 120 hour TEFL course with at least 6 hours of monitored teaching practice (not an online course) and usually some experience. I wouldn't count on them letting you work for only 3 months as they usually want people who will commit for 9-12 months.
Have a look through this site - http://www.tefl.com/
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Forget about Georgia and especially stop thinking you know anything about it.
Georgia is far too difficult. You wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell in being
successful there. However, you should probably go there and find out for yourself.
I am very good at meeting women and I struggled mightily.
The way to meet a Georgian girl is to move there. Convert to Orthodox, go to
Church every Sunday for 3+ hours and fast 100 days per year and meet with
the priest and have him make recommendations to you. If you do this for 1
year to 18 months you will probably have a girl who is willing to let you court
her. Don't get any funny ideas, you won't be able to kiss her for probably the
first year and her family will watch you at all times. Maybe in 6 months you
will be allowed to hold her hand or maybe they will decide they don't like you
and you can start all over again.
With your background and experience, yes by all means go to Georgia and
even better yet write all about it here before you go. You should be able to deduce
everything about the country by reading the internet. You would have a better
chance at starring in the NBA, you have a ball and a basket, the ball goes
in the basket, how hard can it really be? Surely those very tall men couldn't
be that difficult to outfox. You could buy a how to play basketball book on
Amazon. Or maybe just check one out at the local library that way you don't
have to pay for one. I've heard they pay those basketball players lots of money
and that hot girls throw themselves at them. That would be a better plan than
you going to Georgia.
I encourage you to travel to Georgia because the visa is so easy.
Oh, I see, point taken Bill, yeah I think your right I'll give Georgia a miss if its like that it sounds like it would be a waste of time and money and I've done enough of that already. Plus I'm not really the religious type so I certainly couldn't get i that deep with it all. Scenery there looks nice but then it does many a place and of course I'm making the journey to find a girl.
NBA sounds like a better idea I used to be quite good at basket ball when I was younger :D
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You consistently use "your" rather than the correct "you're" as but one example of your inadquate language skills in your mother tongue. Do you wish to inflict that faulty use of language on paying customers?
No matter where you go, you are you. If you can't make it with UK women, chances are you're not going to make it long term with an FSUW.
Now, now I'm a native English person so I set the rules on English as I please ;D For internet use on the hurry its perfectly fine not to give an arse if its the wrong term used the rest of the sentence will tell the other English person what I meant.
Anyway, I don;t thin you quite understand how difficult it is in UK to get a girl, even in US I suspect it is easier and could probably get one there over time. Then though it comes to what the woman wants that you are with and FSU women are more family orientated. I think I could definitely make a go of this FSW search.
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Exactly.
Trench, while I'm not familiar with all of the rules, you generally do need a sponsor (employer) to arrange a work visa for you. Which means you need a job offer before you go, you can't just show up in Russia and expect to find work. If you want to teach English at a private English school you'll need a university degree, a 120 hour TEFL course with at least 6 hours of monitored teaching practice (not an online course) and usually some experience. I wouldn't count on them letting you work for only 3 months as they usually want people who will commit for 9-12 months.
Have a look through this site - http://www.tefl.com/
I have all of this but not the experirnce, getting the experience before hand could be possible around where I live. Like you say though the duration, etc could be an issue, I just don't know if I would find what I am looking for. I could do some inquiries online. So it makes it all a bit more tricky, I don't really want a hard core teaching post just an informal part time one. Other than that not sure what else to try.
Estonia is nearish in the EU but I think perhaps not as much of a foreign dating scene there.
Otherwise its Ukraine, I guess if I was in a place none too exciting it would prompt women to date me :D perhaps not a bad idea that, hmmnn... :-\
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Now, now I'm a native English person so I set the rules on English as I please ;D For internet use on the hurry its perfectly fine not to give an arse if its the wrong term used the rest of the sentence will tell the other English person what I meant.
Anyway, I don;t thin you quite understand how difficult it is in UK to get a girl, even in US I suspect it is easier and could probably get one there over time. Then though it comes to what the woman wants that you are with and FSU women are more family orientated. I think I could definitely make a go of this FSW search.
Millions of UK men meet and marry UK women, so I think you are exaggerating. I also doubt FSUW are more "family oriented". That's a good MOB meme, though.
As for English, you make the same errors consistently. So I wouldn't put it down to online communication.
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Trench, did you ever consider a marriage agency such as Mordinson in Kharkiv? I don't know how reliable it is. Others here will know more. There are more in Kiev I believe. It was quite a shock to me when I was in the maidan and on one of the side streets there is the infamous and worthless AFA's office. :D
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Trench, did you ever consider a marriage agency such as Mordinson in Kharkiv? I don't know how reliable it is. Others here will know more. There are more in Kiev I believe. It was quite a shock to me when I was in the maidan and on one of the side streets there is the infamous and worthless AFA's office. :D
A guy called Guppy Captain used them a couple of times and had a couple of relationships through girls from Mordinson. Neither of them lasted and last I heard he had to 'get back to the US to earn some money' - guess they cleaned him out. Not surprising they charge 'a lot' of money for their services. I get the impression the girls he met were holiday whore/shopping spree type or similar. I don't think I need the help of an agency, its just paying a lot to meet girls that you can arrange yourself for free plus there is the added problem of whether the girls are sincere or agency stooges. Its putting the middle man back in which even the starting advice in here is to eliminate as soon as possible as they they tend to be a problem. It would be a definite step back in this search by using agencies for sure. I'm confident I can do this on my own ok, I just need to spend some time out there.
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A guy called Guppy Captain used them a couple of times and had a couple of relationships through girls from Mordinson. Neither of them lasted and last I heard he had to 'get back to the US to earn some money' - guess they cleaned him out. Not surprising they charge 'a lot' of money for their services. I get the impression the girls he met were holiday whore/shopping spree type or similar. I don't think I need the help of an agency, its just paying a lot to meet girls that you can arrange yourself for free plus there is the added problem of whether the girls are sincere or agency stooges. Its putting the middle man back in which even the starting advice in here is to eliminate as soon as possible as they they tend to be a problem. It would be a definite step back in this search by using agencies for sure. I'm confident I can do this on my own ok, I just need to spend some time out there.
Whoa....slow down. You can't assume they were insincere or scammed him or whatever. Things fall apart for many reasons. You don't know if the women on free sites are sincere either. It is about judging their character from what you experience when communicating with them and seeing them in person that matters. I think... ;D
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A guy called Guppy Captain used them a couple of times and had a couple of relationships through girls from Mordinson. Neither of them lasted and last I heard he had to 'get back to the US to earn some money' - guess they cleaned him out. Not surprising they charge 'a lot' of money for their services. I get the impression the girls he met were holiday whore/shopping spree type or similar. I don't think I need the help of an agency, its just paying a lot to meet girls that you can arrange yourself for free plus there is the added problem of whether the girls are sincere or agency stooges. Its putting the middle man back in which even the starting advice in here is to eliminate as soon as possible as they they tend to be a problem. It would be a definite step back in this search by using agencies for sure. I'm confident I can do this on my own ok, I just need to spend some time out there.
He never claimed they scammed him. Just that they weren't compatible. The fact you jumped to this conclusion says more about you than it does about anything else.
You were taken advantage of precisely because that's what you were looking for.
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You have to be who you are.
He never claimed they scammed him. Just that they weren't compatible. The fact you jumped to this conclusion says more about you than it does about anything else.
You were taken advantage of precisely because that's what you were looking for.
Still recommend Trench be who he is?
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That's what the girl I was with said, yeah I'll just work all the time, lol. Seriously though I think I've found a way I can make more money than at present and will do in the future.
A girl doesn't have to be real frugal that I'm with but also not real spend happy so a happy medium would be good. I think I could probably get a more cautious shopper than the girl I was with. I see what you mean though, most of the burden, well pretty much all of it in FSU culture tends to be on the man providing everything. So I need to prepare well for this and things will improve on this front. I'm also quite heavily into DIY so bringing this up like you mention could be worth me remembering, many thanks :)
Thing is, how does a typical FSU family dynamic work?
It seldom is tge utopia the young girls of mob seem to expect in the west. ;)
FSU Women with a family have been a staple in the work force for a long long time.An average FSU family has both husband and wife working.
To be honest I've seen more cases of the woman working and the man not, than the other way around .
I'm not saying a husband shouldn't provide, but the average woman doesn't expect her fsu husband to do it all.That is not common place in that culture.
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I'd avoid mordinsons, they have been around decades, yet few seem to have success there.
I've some small experience with them.when in was in Kharkov a long long time ago,and can't imagine things are better . Basically I don't know any agency that isn't suspect in their dealings. It's a very very grey area and the established ones in Kharkov are no better (or worse)than the infamous ones in other cities.
Same old song and dance. Same parlor room card tricks.
Yes some women are sincere at such agencies, but you must wade through a pile of agency muck to find and extract them lol.
If I lived there, no way would I go to an agency.
You'd be far better off sitting on a park bench with a *wife wanted* sign .
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Hi there,
Yes, Kharkov is the best choice! I agree, avoid agencies, as it is a waste of your time and money. There are so many educated people and higher education establishments!!! So many beautiful places to visit.... :welcome:
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Boethius,
I am ashamed by Trench's inability to spell, and some of the things he posts - the shame being he claims to be British
You once stated that there are no 'trolls' on here - but judging by his inability to accept good advice and his making stuff up about those who 'fail' I am now coming around to JayH's attitude to him
There are some people who are beyond help.
That an airline pilot if in employ - couldn't fund trips to Kyiv is but an example of Trench's ability to slur a fellow member.
I suggest he goes to Donetsk or Lugansk - There will be plenty of ladies who haven't seen a w.guy ....
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Thing is, how does a typical FSU family dynamic work?
It seldom is tge utopia the young girls of mob seem to expect in the west. ;)
FSU Women with a family have been a staple in the work force for a long long time.An average FSU family has both husband and wife working.
To be honest I've seen more cases of the woman working and the man not, than the other way around .
I'm not saying a husband shouldn't provide, but the average woman doesn't expect her fsu husband to do it all.That is not common place in that culture.
I think your right Jumper, the girl I was with on holiday when I got in a discussion with her went on about how her brother works all hours under the sun to provide for his family but can afford little. For me though she seemed to think I should provide way more within a short space of time and was kind of blinkered to it being any other way. So they certainly have different ides/standards of what they expect of a FSU man and a Western Man.
At the moment she works a lot of hours in a retail shop and I get the impression she sees getting with a Western Man as a way out from that. I think I might struggle to get her to work at all if she moved with me to UK even though she could get a basic part time retail job as opposed to full time job which would still be a big improvement for her. I think she has bought this dream of not having to work at all just go around all day and shop if she got with a western guy. Reality is few can afford this lifestyle in the west. WM are not made of money and the streets aren't paved with gold, but finding a FSW that is willing to budge a little in her unrealistic expectations is another matter, lol.
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I'd avoid mordinsons, they have been around decades, yet few seem to have success there.
I've some small experience with them.when in was in Kharkov a long long time ago,and can't imagine things are better . Basically I don't know any agency that isn't suspect in their dealings. It's a very very grey area and the established ones in Kharkov are no better (or worse)than the infamous ones in other cities.
Same old song and dance. Same parlor room card tricks.
Yes some women are sincere at such agencies, but you must wade through a pile of agency muck to find and extract them lol.
If I lived there, no way would I go to an agency.
You'd be far better off sitting on a park bench with a *wife wanted* sign .
Yeah, I just see agencies as a waste of time & money, wasting chances guys have and getting in their way of finding real love and relationship with a girl with a load of horseplay.
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He never claimed they scammed him. Just that they weren't compatible. The fact you jumped to this conclusion says more about you than it does about anything else.
You were taken advantage of precisely because that's what you were looking for.
No but you could easily read into it that he got taken for a ride. Particularly as he needed to suddenly rush back to US to earn some dosh. Mordinson alone charge a few thousand for their services, more with, apartments, paying for language lessons for girl, etc. Even I know going down that route is a quick way to get fleeced and end your FSU dating search due to lack of money, perhaps permanently.
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Trench, I suggest that before you decide toss the town size into the mix. If you're from a small to moderate sized place then look in similar sized towns. You'll fit in better and if you manage to meet someone to drag home then she'll feel more comfortable too. You shouldn't think that a big city girl will adapt well to a 2 horse village.
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What you proved is you don't know and 'read' what you want to read ....
You posted as daft about Ed..
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Well current thoughts are maybe start of in one city in Ukraine and work my way around, once found girl in her home city then see if there is time to be in a bit of a domestic living situation with her for a short while- as in she stays over at my place for a short temporary duration. St. Petersburg I like but all the restraints of visa etc and time I can spend there make it an uneasy fit for my strategy. I could go there as well, but that may get expensive and if I find a girl on a one month visa I'm unlikely to have the time to have her live in with me for a bit which I am really aiming for. Without that possibility its a big hole in my strategy and what I am looking for, I want to avoid the quick fly in & gone situations. Plus of course its the dating scene I'm going for rather than a holiday. I can always put St. Pete's off to another time, perhaps later in the year or following year if it all goes pear shaped in Ukraine. Essentially the teaching English was always meant to be an informal thing for me, I was never looking to get into it for a formal job or much in the way of money, it was more for the chance to meet girls at it who were interested in learning English - i.e an interest in English :)
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Moby, It would be helpful if you indicated who you were replying to.
Trenchcoat, I strongly suspect you are not a newbie on forums and have been on various forums before oriented to Slavic women before.
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Trench, I suggest that before you decide toss the town size into the mix. If you're from a small to moderate sized place then look in similar sized towns. You'll fit in better and if you manage to meet someone to drag home then she'll feel more comfortable too. You shouldn't think that a big city girl will adapt well to a 2 horse village.
Think you could be right Mike, I'm thinking of moving to a strategy of moving around Ukraine and this may be better than sitting in just one city. Cities are great in that they have the largest amount of women to chose from, but if I can get out to some of the smaller cities in Ukraine for a while and meet women from the surrounding areas it may not be a bad thing. I think more rural offbeat areas might have more sincere women as they know guys aren't going to pop up everyday.
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Moby, It would be helpful if you indicated who you were replying to.
Trenchcoat, I strongly suspect you are not a newbie on forums and have been on various forums before oriented to Slavic women before.
He' replying to what I've written of course ;)
This is the only forum I go on with regard to Russian dating, Its a good forum so why go anywhere else. I have been on here and looking for about the last 18 months so not a newbie on here though others have been on here far longer than me so by their standard perhaps they still see me as one.
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Trench, I would think this endeavor is not for people who are tight on cash. And definitely not for anyone who gets dragged into shopping malls by these women. Any commercial entity should be viewed carefully of course. You should demand to see proof of recent marriages (not from years ago) from anyone whose services you could use. Look, if you go live there, there is an opportunity cost to you. You won't be making the cash you normally do in the UK. You will make a lot less in Ukraine if you were to even get a job. Would it be a better idea if you stay home, save enough to afford Eduard so he can find you the partner you are seeking? I don't know Ed but here many seem to think he is good and trustworthy. Hard to find someone like that.
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Moby, It would be helpful if you indicated who you were replying to.
It was a deliberate act - less said poster gained any 'cred'...the cap fitted and the owner came forward - 'nuff said
..
Trenchcoat, I strongly suspect you are not a newbie on forums and have been on various forums before oriented to Slavic women before.
I was beginning to think the same - re 'historical membership'... Good to know, I'm not alone... There is a familiar style ...
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I think she has bought this dream of not having to work at all just go around all day and shop if she got with a western guy.
I have the opposite problem.
I would just as soon my wife not work.
But she very much wants to; and does.
Multivariable Calculus and Differential Equations for Fall 2017.
She can teach that terrible stuff . . . but I have to prepare syllabuses, set up spread sheets for later recording of thousands (it seems) quizzes, homework and test scores, answer all the emails she gets, write reference letters for students, etc., etc.
All at no pay . . . except I get to walk on the streets and be seen at social events with her . . . while other guys are thinking . . . why him?
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Trench, I would think this endeavor is not for people who are tight on cash. And definitely not for anyone who gets dragged into shopping malls by these women. Any commercial entity should be viewed carefully of course. You should demand to see proof of recent marriages (not from years ago) from anyone whose services you could use. Look, if you go live there, there is an opportunity cost to you. You won't be making the cash you normally do in the UK. You will make a lot less in Ukraine if you were to even get a job. Would it be a better idea if you stay home, save enough to afford Eduard so he can find you the partner you are seeking? I don't know Ed but here many seem to think he is good and trustworthy. Hard to find someone like that.
Its ok Wall, I've worked out by converting my house so it can take in a couple of lodgers I will have independent income that will cover my expenses while out there (its currently a one bedder but I can convert it to three with a small extension out back). I will have savings to cover any potential overspend. Longer term I think I will be able to get some good money in also. I don't mind treading water financially for a few months if it means I can get a decent girl sorted out, I think the time and loss of earnings investment will be worth it and at any rate it could be enjoyable. It looks like I might have been wrong with my initial reaction to Ed, as with many it looked like he was just another agency type. However, he charges a lot of money and that's fine for clients that have that sort of money - were talking thousands here I've heard. That's fine if I was in the same position it would make sense to do so. I think I know how he goes about it and for him I'm sure he can source women better than a non-native such as myself. If the cost was such that it would forgo a lot of costs of trips, time wasted etc and come in as more affordable it would but I'm pretty sure we are talking tens of thousands here (he seems to work for very wealthy millionaire types not your average joe) then it would be a goer, but as it is I don't have that sort of money to spend and its way cheaper to do it myself even with the cock ups along the way. I really do think I can get it sorted this time. I mean I'm tight on cash when I can be but if the need arises then I can afford to spend if it gets me to where I want to be.
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I have the opposite problem.
I would just as soon my wife not work.
But she very much wants to; and does.
Multivariable Calculus and Differential Equations for Fall 2017.
She can teach that terrible stuff . . . but I have to prepare syllabuses, set up spread sheets for later recording of thousands (it seems) quizzes, homework and test scores, answer all the emails she gets, write reference letters for students, etc., etc.
All at no pay . . . except I get to walk on the streets and be seen at social events with her . . . while other guys are thinking . . . why him?
I studied that stuff briefly (on what we Brits call A'Level courses) in Maths, it was horrible and real difficult and weird, I quickly dropped the subject after just a few weeks as could stand it no longer and my marks were bad also. What kind of strange person would want to do that stuff I don't know, lol.
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No but you could easily read into it that he got taken for a ride
No, you couldn't. He posted they were just not suited to each other, and he parted with her with regret because he thought she was a good person
I think more rural offbeat areas might have more sincere women as they know guys aren't going to pop up everyday.
Proof yet again that you don't know what you're talking about, and know nothing of Ukraine.
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Trench, don't make assumptions about Eduard. Contact him and ask what he charges. Doing this on my own hasn't been cheap. On three trips I spent almost 13K. I am going on another next month. If i fail in my current pursuit, I might "contract out" the search to someone with recent provable success. :D
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Trench, Ed and a few others can help you find a good woman and introduce you to her. Ed or an agency will not be able to hold your hand forever. It's doesn't matter if Ed charges $10 or $10,000, if you can't keep a woman after the introduction, it's a waste of money and the blame shouldn't be Ed's or any other introductory service providers. You are the key to keeping a woman so make sure you become a man women desire.
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I am quite amazed - and even more amused - how some people *cough*nonamesmentioned*cough* see this quest as a cost - it is an investment for your happiness and future, and on top of meeting beautiful and wonderful women, making friends for life, getting to know a completely different culture and step out of your comfort zone, it's an adventure, enjoy it, live it, make the best time of it..
I spent around $20k on this, and I will spend another $20k on this before I am done (or more), and I could not be more happy then I am right now, and we are not even engaged yet.
yes if you are stupid as Trench, you will get taken for a ride, but that's because his mind is always on - if she so much as asked for a lollipop at a kiosk - he would mutter *she is just taking me for a shopping spree*
and that mindset will never get you anywhere - if he dont understand the girls, the culture, the country, he will never succeed, and he proves over and over again, he has no clue what he is talking about.
I think more rural offbeat areas might have more sincere women as they know guys aren't going to pop up everyday.
I can't even bother to comment that, its just that stupid..
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Trench, did you ever consider a marriage agency such as Mordinson in Kharkiv?
They charge way too much money for Trenchie. He's going to fumble along
his own way. Hopefully learning from his mistakes along the way. He should
start a thread called Trenchies Way, and some years from now the newbies
can read it and hopefully learn something about all the advice he ignored.
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I am quite amazed - and even more amused - how some people *cough*nonamesmentioned*cough* see this quest as a cost - it is an investment for your happiness and future, and on top of meeting beautiful and wonderful women, making friends for life, getting to know a completely different culture and step out of your comfort zone, it's an adventure, enjoy it, live it, make the best time of it..
I spent around $20k on this, and I will spend another $20k on this before I am done (or more), and I could not be more happy then I am right now, and we are not even engaged yet.
yes if you are stupid as Trench, you will get taken for a ride, but that's because his mind is always on - if she so much as asked for a lollipop at a kiosk - he would mutter *she is just taking me for a shopping spree*
and that mindset will never get you anywhere - if he dont understand the girls, the culture, the country, he will never succeed, and he proves over and over again, he has no clue what he is talking about.
I can't even bother to comment that, its just that stupid..
Then you are an idiot, this venture should not be a case of willing to shell out forever more, if you've not found someone after 10 trips and 20K then you should ask yourself what you are doing wrong. Perhaps take BillyB's advice and take a look at yourself. I am willing to learn from my experiences and mistakes and to try different methods. Just going in there one time after another without learning from it doesn't look like it is doing you any favours.
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Trench, don't make assumptions about Eduard. Contact him and ask what he charges. Doing this on my own hasn't been cheap. On three trips I spent almost 13K. I am going on another next month. If i fail in my current pursuit, I might "contract out" the search to someone with recent provable success. :D
Are you going to see the girl again you met in Nikolaev? How is it going there?
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They charge way too much money for Trenchie. He's going to fumble along
his own way. Hopefully learning from his mistakes along the way. He should
start a thread called Trenchies Way, and some years from now the newbies
can read it and hopefully learn something about all the advice he ignored.
Then what would you have me do Bill? Pay out loads of money until I am skint. Its fine for someone else to suggest paying a load of money to someone else when its not their pocket it is coming out off.
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Then you are an idiot, this venture should not be a case of willing to shell out forever more, if you've not found someone after 10 trips and 20K then you should ask yourself what you are doing wrong. Perhaps take BillyB's advice and take a look at yourself. I am willing to learn from my experiences and mistakes and to try different methods. Just going in there one time after another without learning from it doesn't look like it is doing you any favours.
:blowkiss: :cheesy:
but you see little Tranchy, I did find her, with a big H .... and it has never been about the money, it has always been about the experience, the trips, the adventure and fun times I had.. what is has cost me, not important because when I found Tanya, I would have spent $50k more if needed, just to find her..
I have always seen this as getaways from work, small vacations, new lovely places, interesting places, interesting people.. in short, me-time with a little extra perk of maybe find the love of my life.. and you know something, I did ;)
I am not a cheap-ass bastard like you that counts every cent and regret everything you just bought.. just because you cant understand what you did wrong..and keeeeeeep doing wrong.. and to be honest, will make the same mistakes, because its not the girls fault you fail, its you, your mindset, your cheapness and now unwillingness to learn from those who have succeeded.. I mean, you don't even listen to a real FSUW who has over and over tried to help you understand, and god knows she had patience with you. I don't agree with everything Boethius has to say, but that's another story, she is still a FSUW and sure knows a hell lot more then you.
it's been pointed out to me Boethius is not really a FSUW, but she damn sure close enough to make my point
Just that small comment you made about your girl ordering something, and then didn't eat much - you know absolutely NOTHING about women - not FSU women- all women, but especially not something about a woman, as you say come from a "dirt poor" country.. how often do you think she has been to a nicer restaurant, don't you think she would order something that looked good, sounded new, a new experience, but.. naah it wasn't that good.. and you see red flags..
I have always encouraged my dates to have anything that looks good and don't worry about price, I want to make it an experience for her as well, enjoy herself and be comfortable with the situation, and most, if not all women so far, have got something -half way in the price range (almost never I think anyone chose the most expensive thing-like I always do :) ) but something they always wanted to try but thought was to expensive since they didn't know what it was or how it tasted, or maybe only tried it once and wanted to try again.. and a couple of times I had to order a second portion because she really didn't like it - so what?
Yet I have never - ever - went on a shopping spree with a woman, one(!) tried, she got kicked to the curb that second, and I looked up a new date on mamba the day after and spent 3 lovely days with her showing me everything in her town. :P That relationship lasted for 3 months, 5 trips..
someone like you I imagine cries when you have to go to the toilet the day after a really expensive meal.
Have I done something wrong, of course.. lesson learned and back on the horse again.. I aint afraid of trying, and I have had 3 longer relationships with FSU women, they are included in my trips..
In difference to you, I don't think someone will move in with me after just two weeks of vacation.. love must be allowed to take time, and is expensive.. so my suggestion, pull out now.. you can't afford this, your mental health is not right for this.. you are.. not good enough simply put.
I am more and more sure this was the first time any girl let you see her naked, let alone touch it, and you can't put that feeling out of your mind, that's why you held on to her for so long as you did, with your mindset about money - and she being so "pushy"... what else?
the $20k that I am more then willing to spend on my future mrs Nightwish, that is money well spent, it will be travels back and forth, both for her and for me, and I would not DREAM about asking her to pay for anything, even if I know she can afford it, I've seen her bank statement. Then we need to move everything she owns here, get her a car, get her settled here, she will damn sure do a makeover in my house (as needed) she is a woman who likes beauty and comfort around her.. and I dont even own a single living plant.
so....
but I know this is something you would not do for your woman, you want her to start working right away and pay her ways day 2 in your country :cluebat:
and Trenchy, you going to an FSU country to live "for a while" to meet women, and all of a sudden compete on a local level - trainwreck!
any spelling errors, wrong syntax or just mishaps in the text is a bonus from me to you, I aint English native speaker ( and would never dream to try teach it to someone) and I refuse to learn it better :D so shove it if you have comments.. not even sure that's the right way to say it 8)
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I dont even own a single living plant.
I'm pretty sure every single guy as a little mold and mildew growing in their house.
One time the hose to the ice machine in the refrigerator had a small leak. Small amounts of water leaked behind the refrigerator and bled through the wall into the carpet in the next room. One day I noticed large mushrooms growing in the carpet. If a woman was living with me at that time, that would've never happened as she'd catch the problem before I did.
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Are you going to see the girl again you met in Nikolaev? How is it going there?
Trench, I am going back to Nikolaev next month to see her. It will be my 2nd return trip for her. We both are looking forward to it.
Some simpletons are easily amazed. The point I am making is that doing it on your own need not necessarily be more economical than hiring a matchmaker. I see on Mordinson website that they have a record of marriages. You want that. You don't want matchmakers who are only interested in lining their pockets. Mordinson charges $2650 for 10 days. Compare that with income you lose by being there for months, the travel costs, rent, food, etc. Something to think about. Having said this, I have no personal experience with Mordinson. All I know is what I read here and on their site. Mordinson does seem to have some couples in UK. Perhaps you can ask the agency for contact info to talk to the men.
Whether you do it your way or hire someone, if you are lucky enough to find someone, do yourself a favor and don't go near shopping malls.;D The time to show your woman that you can provide for her will come in due time. And one more thing....don't put these women on a pedestal.
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Then you are an idiot
Trench tells yet another member WITH a clue, that they are an 'idiot' .... ?!
, this venture should not be a case of willing to shell out forever more, if you've not found someone after 10 trips and 20K then you should ask yourself what you are doing wrong.
Trench has never heard of the Former Soviet expression "You have to eat five tonnes [ a lot ] of salt together - to really know each other" ...
I am willing to learn from my experiences and mistakes
Not seen ANY evidence of THAT ...
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Then you are an idiot, this venture should not be a case of willing to shell out forever more, if you've not found someone after 10 trips and 20K then you should ask yourself what you are doing wrong. Perhaps take BillyB's advice and take a look at yourself. I am willing to learn from my experiences and mistakes and to try different methods. Just going in there one time after another without learning from it doesn't look like it is doing you any favours.
oh and Trenchy dear, I have been to Ukraine 24 times now in 3,5 years "> 10" is read as more then then 10, not as exactly 10 - but there is no higher option, don't blame me, blame the owner of the forum who didn't think there would be an idiot like me going back like a jo-jo.
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I am quite amazed - and even more amused - how some people *cough*nonamesmentioned*cough* see this quest as a cost - it is an investment for your happiness and future, and on top of meeting beautiful and wonderful women, making friends for life, getting to know a completely different culture and step out of your comfort zone, it's an adventure, enjoy it, live it, make the best time of it..
I spent around $20k on this, and I will spend another $20k on this before I am done (or more), and I could not be more happy then I am right now, and we are not even engaged yet.
yes if you are stupid as Trench, you will get taken for a ride, but that's because his mind is always on - if she so much as asked for a lollipop at a kiosk - he would mutter *she is just taking me for a shopping spree*
and that mindset will never get you anywhere - if he dont understand the girls, the culture, the country, he will never succeed, and he proves over and over again, he has no clue what he is talking about.
I can't even bother to comment that, its just that stupid..
:blowkiss: :cheesy:
but you see little Tranchy, I did find her, with a big H .... and it has never been about the money, it has always been about the experience, the trips, the adventure and fun times I had.. what is has cost me, not important because when I found Tanya, I would have spent $50k more if needed, just to find her..
I have always seen this as getaways from work, small vacations, new lovely places, interesting places, interesting people.. in short, me-time with a little extra perk of maybe find the love of my life.. and you know something, I did ;)
I am not a cheap-ass bastard like you that counts every cent and regret everything you just bought.. just because you cant understand what you did wrong..and keeeeeeep doing wrong.. and to be honest, will make the same mistakes, because its not the girls fault you fail, its you, your mindset, your cheapness and now unwillingness to learn from those who have succeeded.. I mean, you don't even listen to a real FSUW who has over and over tried to help you understand, and god knows she had patience with you. I don't agree with everything Boethius has to say, but that's another story, she is still a FSUW and sure knows a hell lot more then you.
it's been pointed out to me Boethius is not really a FSUW, but she damn sure close enough to make my point
Just that small comment you made about your girl ordering something, and then didn't eat much - you know absolutely NOTHING about women - not FSU women- all women, but especially not something about a woman, as you say come from a "dirt poor" country.. how often do you think she has been to a nicer restaurant, don't you think she would order something that looked good, sounded new, a new experience, but.. naah it wasn't that good.. and you see red flags..
I have always encouraged my dates to have anything that looks good and don't worry about price, I want to make it an experience for her as well, enjoy herself and be comfortable with the situation, and most, if not all women so far, have got something -half way in the price range (almost never I think anyone chose the most expensive thing-like I always do :) ) but something they always wanted to try but thought was to expensive since they didn't know what it was or how it tasted, or maybe only tried it once and wanted to try again.. and a couple of times I had to order a second portion because she really didn't like it - so what?
Yet I have never - ever - went on a shopping spree with a woman, one(!) tried, she got kicked to the curb that second, and I looked up a new date on mamba the day after and spent 3 lovely days with her showing me everything in her town. :P That relationship lasted for 3 months, 5 trips..
someone like you I imagine cries when you have to go to the toilet the day after a really expensive meal.
Have I done something wrong, of course.. lesson learned and back on the horse again.. I aint afraid of trying, and I have had 3 longer relationships with FSU women, they are included in my trips..
In difference to you, I don't think someone will move in with me after just two weeks of vacation.. love must be allowed to take time, and is expensive.. so my suggestion, pull out now.. you can't afford this, your mental health is not right for this.. you are.. not good enough simply put.
I am more and more sure this was the first time any girl let you see her naked, let alone touch it, and you can't put that feeling out of your mind, that's why you held on to her for so long as you did, with your mindset about money - and she being so "pushy"... what else?
the $20k that I am more then willing to spend on my future mrs Nightwish, that is money well spent, it will be travels back and forth, both for her and for me, and I would not DREAM about asking her to pay for anything, even if I know she can afford it, I've seen her bank statement. Then we need to move everything she owns here, get her a car, get her settled here, she will damn sure do a makeover in my house (as needed) she is a woman who likes beauty and comfort around her.. and I dont even own a single living plant.
so....
but I know this is something you would not do for your woman, you want her to start working right away and pay her ways day 2 in your country :cluebat:
and Trenchy, you going to an FSU country to live "for a while" to meet women, and all of a sudden compete on a local level - trainwreck!
any spelling errors, wrong syntax or just mishaps in the text is a bonus from me to you, I aint English native speaker ( and would never dream to try teach it to someone) and I refuse to learn it better :D so shove it if you have comments.. not even sure that's the right way to say it 8)
oh and Trenchy dear, I have been to Ukraine 24 times now in 3,5 years "> 10" is read as more then then 10, not as exactly 10 - but there is no higher option, don't blame me, blame the owner of the forum who didn't think there would be an idiot like me going back like a jo-jo.
The only reason I bother commenting in Trenchcoat thread or where he makes his inane comments in other threads is in hope that all can see what an incompetent fool he is.
The quotes of Nightwish above are from a guy who has shown repeatedly he has approached this endevour with a realistic common sense approach -- and for those reading --that is a guy you can learn and take some positive ,realistic advice from .
There are people who post,and have posted,that I can relate to. The key point is that it will cost,it will take time and patience and common sense is required.
Above,Nightwish comments on the learning process,I particularly draw attention to that.I read from more than a few-- derogatory remarks on Ukraine and it's circumstances -- generally from people with little real exposure.
I know a much wider cross section of Ukrainian cities ( I doubt that ANYONE here is even close) and have also probably spent more time in Ukraine than anyone else here( in the time since I started being serious) and ( except those now with pr status). Most years I have been close to the max allowed days.
So-- I take exception to the negative comments some have made after a day or 2 exposure ( and some who have never even been) to cities they comment negatively on.
Let me make a point -- there are plenty of places in the US ,UK etc I would not want to live -- and a fair number of you here would agree with that. I would have no problem living in many places in Ukraine .It is actually a very easy place to be.
Nightwish comments on his spending --my view -- I have a lot more time and expense travelling than he does --but -- what does having a wife cost? Each year --way more than the Nightwish numbers !! ;D dating local women could easily add up to that amount per year without the potential for a conclusion. So "indulging" oneself in the international process should not be about the out of pocket costs.
If you cant afford the process -- you cant afford a "wife' !Especially if you think all you have to do is show up and choose !
To highlight a couple of points-
Trenchcoat has been to Ukraine for how many days in total? 5 or 6 ?
Trenchcoat spent how much on eating out in total?
Trenchcoat spent how much on the so called shopping spree?
The cost of getting from the UK to UKR can be very little . Going shopping in Cyprus is going to be much more costly than UKR.
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oh and Trenchy dear, I have been to Ukraine 24 times now in 3,5 years "> 10" is read as more then then 10, not as exactly 10 - but there is no higher option, don't blame me, blame the owner of the forum who didn't think there would be an idiot like me going back like a jo-jo.
Nightwish, the owner of this forum didn't intend to cater for sexpats ;D
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Trench tells yet another member WITH a clue, that they are an 'idiot' .... ?!
Trench has never heard of the Former Soviet expression "You have to eat five tonnes [ a lot ] of salt together - to really know each other" ...
Not seen ANY evidence of THAT ...
Yes and my problem is she seems to have some hang up about me visiting her and is obsessed with her coming here and visiting nowhere else before. That I do not understand. Possibly if I turn up where she lives everyone will know her clothes are real brand, where/how she is getting them and she doesn't want that as she may get grief over it. Why she doesn't want to be elsewhere in Europe together I don't know.
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You might want to learn how to quote folks, properly, too
Yes and my problem is she seems to have some hang up about me visiting her
Wise girl
and is obsessed with her coming here and visiting nowhere else before. That I do not understand. Possibly if I turn up where she lives everyone will know her clothes are real brand, where/how she is getting them and she doesn't want that as she may get grief over it. Why she doesn't want to be elsewhere in Europe together I don't know.
We've got friends in Kherson - thinking of taking an ad in the local rags to warn this poor lass off a stingy Brit ....
In the meantime, Trenchcoat. I'm beginning to feel v.sorry for the lass. Wish she'd come on here and post her side ...
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but you see little Tranchy, I did find her, with a big H .... and it has never been about the money, it has always been about the experience, the trips, the adventure and fun times I had.. what is has cost me, not important because when I found Tanya, I would have spent $50k more if needed, just to find her..
I have always seen this as getaways from work, small vacations, new lovely places, interesting places, interesting people.. in short, me-time with a little extra perk of maybe find the love of my life.. and you know something, I did ;)
Just that small comment you made about your girl ordering something, and then didn't eat much - you know absolutely NOTHING about women - not FSU women- all women, but especially not something about a woman, as you say come from a "dirt poor" country.. how often do you think she has been to a nicer restaurant, don't you think she would order something that looked good, sounded new, a new experience, but.. naah it wasn't that good.. and you see red flags..
I have always encouraged my dates to have anything that looks good and don't worry about price, I want to make it an experience for her as well, enjoy herself and be comfortable with the situation, and most, if not all women so far, have got something -half way in the price range (almost never I think anyone chose the most expensive thing-like I always do :) ) but something they always wanted to try but thought was to expensive since they didn't know what it was or how it tasted, or maybe only tried it once and wanted to try again.. and a couple of times I had to order a second portion because she really didn't like it - so what?
Yet I have never - ever - went on a shopping spree with a woman, one(!) tried, she got kicked to the curb that second, and I looked up a new date on mamba the day after and spent 3 lovely days with her showing me everything in her town. :P That relationship lasted for 3 months, 5 trips..
Then you should change your status nightwish so we know where you are coming from. Yes you may well be right about her wanting to try food. There could well be a cultural misunderstanding here but I can hardly be blamed when these odd situations come up. To me it looked like she was uncaringly squandering my money to take the pee, no a dish of Moussaka is not the most expensive thing in the world but its more what it seemed to represent to me that bothered me more than the cost. Unless she explains these things to me I do not know, I tried to talk to her about it but got no good answer. Basically I told her we had only just eaten not long ago but she still decided she wanted it and then ate hardly any off it. I come from a background where money and food are not frivolously wasted so I could not understand why a poor girl would act like this, like a spoilt LA teen it seemed totally bizarre to me as I think it would many others if there at the time.
Yes, I took her to a shopping mall to please her, but I did not expect her to expect me to pay for one thing after another, a purchase or two then she would be satisfied and we could get on enjoying ourselves with other things to do on holiday. I see now that crossing the line in the first place was the wrong thing to do and did a lot of damage to our relationship. Again perhaps here it is about the girl never really having this opportunity and seeing that she can and making the most of it without having any idea of where I am at with it (and most guys since most guys avoid shopping trips but I thought satisfying her would improve not make worse relationship) so another cultural difference, but how am I supposed to know this and deal with these cultural differences that take me totally by surprise. Yes I have not been there as much as you or have deep a pockets and explaining stuff away can be easy but I don't want to make excuses for her I need help to know what I am dealing with here, it is strange to me.
Lets face it I am not the only guy looking at foreign dating with an average income, when someone surveyed on here with a poll of income most respondents were on everyday average income looking for a FSW. No I always knew that it did not happen (in most cases) straight away, it takes time to get to know girl. I am willing to put the time and money in where needed, but I don't want to be with a girl that is just with me for shopping spree etc and doesn't care about me, perhaps it looks now she wasn't. I am still left with this oddity that she wants to visit me and refuses meeting anywhere else including her home town. Perhaps another cultural difference I don't know but for me it is difficult to work out.
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In the meantime, Trenchcoat. I'm beginning to feel v.sorry for the lass. Wish she'd come on here and post her side ...
If she did that then at least I would know more than she's told me through messaging, lol.
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Then you should change your status nightwish so we know where you are coming from.
Said the guy posting he's 'committed' ( and suggests being married ) you DO know what a spouse is (?) - on his status ?! ...
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Then you should change your status nightwish so we know where you are coming from. Yes you may well be right about her wanting to try food. There could well be a cultural misunderstanding here but I can hardly be blamed when these odd situations come up. To me it looked like she was uncaringly squandering my money to take the pee, no a dish of Moussaka is not the most expensive thing in the world but its more what it seemed to represent to me that bothered me more than the cost. Unless she explains these things to me I do not know, I tried to talk to her about it but got no good answer. Basically I told her we had only just eaten not long ago but she still decided she wanted it and then ate hardly any off it. I come from a background where money and food are not frivolously wasted so I could not understand why a poor girl would act like this, like a spoilt LA teen it seemed totally bizarre to me as I think it would many others if there at the time.
Yes, I took her to a shopping mall to please her, but I did not expect her to expect me to pay for one thing after another, a purchase or two then she would be satisfied and we could get on enjoying ourselves with other things to do on holiday. I see now that crossing the line in the first place was the wrong thing to do and did a lot of damage to our relationship. Again perhaps here it is about the girl never really having this opportunity and seeing that she can and making the most of it without having any idea of where I am at with it (and most guys since most guys avoid shopping trips but I thought satisfying her would improve not make worse relationship) so another cultural difference, but how am I supposed to know this and deal with these cultural differences that take me totally by surprise. Yes I have not been there as much as you or have deep a pockets and explaining stuff away can be easy but I don't want to make excuses for her I need help to know what I am dealing with here, it is strange to me.
Lets face it I am not the only guy looking at foreign dating with an average income, when someone surveyed on here with a poll of income most respondents were on everyday average income looking for a FSW. No I always knew that it did not happen (in most cases) straight away, it takes time to get to know girl. I am willing to put the time and money in where needed, but I don't want to be with a girl that is just with me for shopping spree etc and doesn't care about me, perhaps it looks now she wasn't. I am still left with this oddity that she wants to visit me and refuses meeting anywhere else including her home town. Perhaps another cultural difference I don't know but for me it is difficult to work out.
Finally a decent and well thought of post from you, maybe I said something you needed to hear, and you finally listened, I don't know, but kudos to you for that.
I will try to explain it from my point of view, without making a mock about you, which is hard, but I will do my best.
This "quest" doesn't have to be expensive if your smart, willing to put in the effort and due diligence before a meeting. Some of my dates, they only cost me a planeticket, apartment and food. No adventures, no expensive excursions and we had a lovely time, and one of these dates could really have become my wife if it wasn't for her greedy and jealous ex.husband that sued her over custody, and got half time with his kid. = impossible for her to move here, unless I payed him big cash to give up his rights.. she ended it with me because she didn't want to put this on me, I only found out long time after why she broke up.
We spent a ridiculous amount of time talking before I went there, same thing, we clicked about everything and could talk about all.. and that's is what due diligence means if you only want to spend a dime on this.
It’s not cheap, it should not be cheap, but of course you can – but to do it cheap and succeed you have to be smart, not think like mr scrooge.
About your inability to read cultural differences, well that is something you have to work on, it's not like I knew, or know, all about this.. I dont pretend to know, but I have went in to every meeting, every date with a very open mind, a very open imagination to what could happen, I went in to this knowing there will me missunderstandings and that some things will trigger “the alarm”, but I made very sure to ask her about this, keep an open mind and discussed it with my date before jumping to conclusions..
You seem to do the opposite, and she can feel this, she can feel you dont trust her..and a young woman in her early 20:s she will likely shut down, that I found is another FSU mentality, they can appear very friendly, but emotionally they already shut you out, but she will remain a good date, a good hostess, a good friend, but you have been placed in the friendzone and you will not get out of it. ... besides women have a 6 sense about these things, they are like mystical creatures this way. They read you like an open book, and if she dont feel trust, your toast.
You have to embrace that you will have this kind of cultural differences and play along, don’t give them the time of day.. again, ask her about it before jumping to conclusions, before making up your mind this is a bad thing. And let her know you want to understand her way of thinking, not because you are seeing “red flags” but because you are interested in her views, her culture, her background, her experiences.
One big difference I see here, I went to meet and finally found a “real woman” :P but you met a girl, and that is something you should have noticed right away, so that you can only blame on yourself.
I met one girl that was 23, she hunted me down, she asked and begged and pursued me until I finally said yes to a have a date with her, it was very nice, she was gorgeous and sexy, she was friendly and seemed mature and willing to make an effort to hold on to me, she lured me in with amazing sexy pictures and promises of a night I would never forget.. and no – I will never forget that night - but she was also only 23, and a lot of times I saw that shine through, she wasn’t ready to settle down for life, she wasn’t sure about herself, what she wanted in life. I said absolutely no to kids, and she said she would give up on that dream, but one day with her in the park showed me, she would change her mind about this.
My status will remain untouched until the day I put a ring on the finger, I have nothing to prove here.
btw, Tanya have told me about this dream to have a real diamondring as wedding ring, but she told me, she would keeeeel me if I got her an expensive one, she wants a plain (white) gold ring for engagement, and a match for that as wedding ring but with a small stone as well. Emphasis on small .
Swedish tradition has been like this (unlike US and maybe other parts of the world), here engagement rings is exchanged so both woman and man gets one smaller plain band to show the commitment, and at the wedding the woman gets a second ring, often with a small/medium stone, in recent years I seen that many men also get a second plain ring for the wedding, we are mixing and blending our traditions and cultures as we please here :D
so Tiffanys London - Here I come 8) (someone wants to rob a bank with me?)
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Finally a decent and well thought of post from you, maybe I said something you needed to hear, and you finally listened, I don't know, but kudos to you for that.
I will try to explain it from my point of view, without making a mock about you, which is hard, but I will do my best.
This "quest" doesn't have to be expensive if your smart, willing to put in the effort and due diligence before a meeting. Some of my dates, they only cost me a planeticket, apartment and food. No adventures, no expensive excursions and we had a lovely time, and one of these dates could really have become my wife if it wasn't for her greedy and jealous ex.husband that sued her over custody, and got half time with his kid. = impossible for her to move here, unless I payed him big cash to give up his rights.. she ended it with me because she didn't want to put this on me, I only found out long time after why she broke up.
We spent a ridiculous amount of time talking before I went there, same thing, we clicked about everything and could talk about all.. and that's is what due diligence means if you only want to spend a dime on this.
It’s not cheap, it should not be cheap, but of course you can – but to do it cheap and succeed you have to be smart, not think like mr scrooge.
About your inability to read cultural differences, well that is something you have to work on, it's not like I knew, or know, all about this.. I dont pretend to know, but I have went in to every meeting, every date with a very open mind, a very open imagination to what could happen, I went in to this knowing there will me missunderstandings and that some things will trigger “the alarm”, but I made very sure to ask her about this, keep an open mind and discussed it with my date before jumping to conclusions..
You seem to do the opposite, and she can feel this, she can feel you dont trust her..and a young woman in her early 20:s she will likely shut down, that I found is another FSU mentality, they can appear very friendly, but emotionally they already shut you out, but she will remain a good date, a good hostess, a good friend, but you have been placed in the friendzone and you will not get out of it. ... besides women have a 6 sense about these things, they are like mystical creatures this way. They read you like an open book, and if she dont feel trust, your toast.
You have to embrace that you will have this kind of cultural differences and play along, don’t give them the time of day.. again, ask her about it before jumping to conclusions, before making up your mind this is a bad thing. And let her know you want to understand her way of thinking, not because you are seeing “red flags” but because you are interested in her views, her culture, her background, her experiences.
One big difference I see here, I went to meet and finally found a “real woman” :P but you met a girl, and that is something you should have noticed right away, so that you can only blame on yourself.
I met one girl that was 23, she hunted me down, she asked and begged and pursued me until I finally said yes to a have a date with her, it was very nice, she was gorgeous and sexy, she was friendly and seemed mature and willing to make an effort to hold on to me, she lured me in with amazing sexy pictures and promises of a night I would never forget.. and no – I will never forget that night - but she was also only 23, and a lot of times I saw that shine through, she wasn’t ready to settle down for life, she wasn’t sure about herself, what she wanted in life. I said absolutely no to kids, and she said she would give up on that dream, but one day with her in the park showed me, she would change her mind about this.
My status will remain untouched until the day I put a ring on the finger, I have nothing to prove here.
btw, Tanya have told me about this dream to have a real diamondring as wedding ring, but she told me, she would keeeeel me if I got her an expensive one, she wants a plain (white) gold ring for engagement, and a match for that as wedding ring but with a small stone as well. Emphasis on small .
Swedish tradition has been like this (unlike US and maybe other parts of the world), here engagement rings is exchanged so both woman and man gets one smaller plain band to show the commitment, and at the wedding the woman gets a second ring, often with a small/medium stone, in recent years I seen that many men also get a second plain ring for the wedding, we are mixing and blending our traditions and cultures as we please here :D
so Tiffanys London - Here I come 8) (someone wants to rob a bank with me?)
You surprised me Nightwish and I thank you for your post, you have gained quite an insight into FSU dating that I have not seen much from you until now and it is helpful to me, I never thought I would be saying that, lol. Yes the trust has gone from the relationship and she does indeed 'shut down' a few weeks back I was messaging her and a lot of the time she would not get back to me, only when I really opened up mainly did she get back to me. I think the trust thing also had an effect while we were on holiday, particularly the latter half and like you say she could tell and shut herself off even though externally we still got along well.
Anyhow, we have not contacted each other for probably a good couple of weeks now, we seemed to reach an impasse with neither side willing to budge (or feeling that they could). I'm guessing we are both thinking the same thing at the moment that unless one of us backs down or a solution comes forward nothing there is no point contacting the other. The last message I sent her was that I said that I want a girl that is into me for being me, not into me for gaining a visa. Well she did not respond so I guess she shut down, I took it as a sign that she was just into a visa and not me as she did not respond. Her original accusation was that she thought I was married and/or had children already (she said she did not mind if I had children as she likes children). When I suggested we live abroad (in Cyprus) she accused me of 'having problems with the law' because I did not want to live in UK/sudden change to wanting to live abroad. She did once suggest living together in another EU country but later backtracked form this. I found this strange that she would do that, perhaps once again she thought I had something to hide which she has accused me off all along which turned her off moving abroad with me anywhere. For some reason this means that I am not suitable to meet her in Kherson without her first visiting me - a mantra she keeps repeating often, supposedly to check me out. I have suggested connecting on Facebook but she refuses that as sufficient evidence that I am not married, which I think is weird as people on there would probably be like 'hey, where has your (supposed) wife/children gone?'. She has Facebook but perhaps being foreign doesn't know how it works compared to vk. As you know I distrust her motives for wanting to come to UK/be with me. I guess her trust issues have reached epic proportions that apparently she doesn't even want to see me in Kherson till she first see me in UK. Whether I am right to distrust her or it really is an issue of her distrusting me so badly why I can't come to Kherson I don't know? All I know is that it makes me distrust her why she does not want to see me if I visit as seems strange to me.
Anyway, yes it was much the same with her as the 23 year old girl you met, she begged me that she was 'not too young' so at the age of 25 I thought give her a chance and see where it goes. I am still fairly inexperienced at this FSW scene so was not sure what the upshot of dating a much younger girl would be, I'm mean people have said this and that, some of it quite accurate but as she said she was ready for a committed relationship/children, etc I took her at her word. Whether this was a mistake (at times it seems lie to me) or whether I am now permanently friend zoned I'm not entirely sure.
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Yes and my problem is she seems to have some hang up about me visiting her and is obsessed with her coming here and visiting nowhere else before.
Ok, so you are still stuck on this girl for whatever reason.
You let her drive the bus, either stop doing that or stop pursuing FSUW.
My simple solution
Buy tickets to Kiev, send her the itinerary and tell her you want her to meet you there.
If she refuses, you already know there are millions of unmarried women in Kiev. If she
comes to see you then you start driving the bus. If she doesn't then she doesn't care
about you so you need move on and meet other girls in Kiev.
That I do not understand. Possibly if I turn up where she lives everyone will know her clothes are real brand, where/how she is getting them and she doesn't want that as she may get grief over it. Why she doesn't want to be elsewhere in Europe together I don't know.
Clearly you don't understand women and coming up with reasons about why they do
what they do is an exercise in futility. I understand them 8000 times better than you
and I am constantly mystified. We weren't supposed to be able to understand them!
Who cares what the reason is? It's probably that she doesn't want babuska's tongues
wagging and speculating. As for the rest of Europe, you need to start driving the bus.
HOW TO DRIVE THE BUS
First step is to buy tickets to Kiev. Don't tell her first just do it. Then she will decide,
and you can stop worrying or thinking. You are the one that let this get out of hand.
Personally I think that this "relationship is deader than viable flat Earth theories but
stop whining about it. You need to either sh!t or get off the pot.
Buy the tickets to Kiev and the problem will resolve itself one way or another.
Don't threaten to do this just do it. When you send her your itinerary don't get all
wordy about it. Write something like:
_______________
Hello Sweet Buns (put here name here rather than sweet buns)
I purchased tickets to Kiev and will be there from 9/1 till 9/15 and
would love for you to meet me there. Let me know if you can make it.
Have a Sunny Day!
Bus Driver (put your name there rather than bus driver)
_______________
She will send you a diatribe saying blah, blah, blah
mad, mad, mad. Angry, Angry, sad, sad. more blah
Sweet Buns
________________________________
To which you reply
Dear Sweet Buns,
Should I be expecting you? or not?
Bus Driver
THAT'S IT,
No long winded explanations etc, no answers to questions, no offers
of paying for her bus tickets NONE OF THAT STUFF!
You wait until she says that she is coming before you offer any of that
stuff. DO NOT WRITE HER IF YOU DON'T HEAR BACK FROM HER.
No more analysis of what makes her tick. She ticks and that's all you
need to know.
If she writes back that she can't be there on those dates because her
Granny is meeting the Pope or that she is needed for world peace or
or she will be on Survivor during that time.
You write the following letter,
___________________
Dear Sweet Buns
Sorry that you can't make it, Kiev won't be
the same without you
Cheers
Bus Driver
Now you have a blueprint. The only way to f#ck it up is if you add additional words
and explanations, so don't do it. You will have your answer one way or another.
Drive the bus and don't waste time on a girl just because she is hot, naughty or both.
Udachi!
Bill
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You surprised me Nightwish and I thank you for your post, you have gained quite an insight into FSU dating that I have not seen much from you until now and it is helpful to me, I never thought I would be saying that, lol. Yes the trust has gone from the relationship and she does indeed 'shut down' a few weeks back I was messaging her and a lot of the time she would not get back to me, only when I really opened up mainly did she get back to me. I think the trust thing also had an effect while we were on holiday, particularly the latter half and like you say she could tell and shut herself off even though externally we still got along well.
Anyhow, we have not contacted each other for probably a good couple of weeks now, we seemed to reach an impasse with neither side willing to budge (or feeling that they could). I'm guessing we are both thinking the same thing at the moment that unless one of us backs down or a solution comes forward nothing there is no point contacting the other. The last message I sent her was that I said that I want a girl that is into me for being me, not into me for gaining a visa. Well she did not respond so I guess she shut down, I took it as a sign that she was just into a visa and not me as she did not respond. Her original accusation was that she thought I was married and/or had children already (she said she did not mind if I had children as she likes children). When I suggested we live abroad (in Cyprus) she accused me of 'having problems with the law' because I did not want to live in UK/sudden change to wanting to live abroad. She did once suggest living together in another EU country but later backtracked form this. I found this strange that she would do that, perhaps once again she thought I had something to hide which she has accused me off all along which turned her off moving abroad with me anywhere. For some reason this means that I am not suitable to meet her in Kherson without her first visiting me - a mantra she keeps repeating often, supposedly to check me out. I have suggested connecting on Facebook but she refuses that as sufficient evidence that I am not married, which I think is weird as people on there would probably be like 'hey, where has your (supposed) wife/children gone?'. She has Facebook but perhaps being foreign doesn't know how it works compared to vk. As you know I distrust her motives for wanting to come to UK/be with me. I guess her trust issues have reached epic proportions that apparently she doesn't even want to see me in Kherson till she first see me in UK. Whether I am right to distrust her or it really is an issue of her distrusting me so badly why I can't come to Kherson I don't know? All I know is that it makes me distrust her why she does not want to see me if I visit as seems strange to me.
Anyway, yes it was much the same with her as the 23 year old girl you met, she begged me that she was 'not too young' so at the age of 25 I thought give her a chance and see where it goes. I am still fairly inexperienced at this FSW scene so was not sure what the upshot of dating a much younger girl would be, I'm mean people have said this and that, some of it quite accurate but as she said she was ready for a committed relationship/children, etc I took her at her word. Whether this was a mistake (at times it seems lie to me) or whether I am now permanently friend zoned I'm not entirely sure.
I've made it clear on this forum I would not be sharing much of anything about my trips/my experiences/my "quest" until I nailed it... mostly because I have a very different approach, I have "easy access" to Ukraine, I go there on a gut feeling sometimes, sometimes does due diligence, but above all I never claimed my way is the right way.. but I have almost exclusively gone on WOVO trips, even if a couple of them turned out to be WMVM trips with boots on ground and first date "failed"
And this is also a point I want to make out, especially to you who always complain about members looking for a long time and several trips. NONE of my dates or trips have been failures, I gained experience, I made friends, I have met wonderful people on the way.
I never thought I would meet her on the first or second trip, yes of course I hoped so, maybe most of all on my first trip there.. but I have all the time been prepared that this can take time, a lot of dates, a lot of trips.. that was my mindset going in..
I was looking for miss perfect, and not just "she will do"
I found Miss perfect, in all ways, I could never imagined I would meet such a wonderful person, such a beautiful woman, or as they say in FSU - My second half - because that is exactly what she is, she makes me feel whole, and she points this out to me almost every time we speak, I make her complete.
I think your girl was ready to settle down, if you had been the right man for her, if you had maybe acted like it was a vacation/date between two people getting to know each other.
I don't know, but this is my feeling I get from (all) your posts combined, when you where with her, it more became a "internship" as becoming your wife then a romantic getaway between two people getting to know each other and maybe fall in love.. your expectations was on a different level then hers, and this spooked her, that is what I think, doesn't have to be true. And I am sure you didn't think this way and still don't do, but she maybe felt it (magical creatures as I said). and also as I said before, look for "red flags" and you will find them, and you look for them all the time.
That is why I say, your mindset is wrong, your not mentally ready, and you will crash and burn if you try this "domestic" dating your talking about.
Quite simply, you read to much about scammers and you have created this mental world where Ukraine is "dirt poor" and "everyone" is after a visa or your money. This wont change if you move there, it wont change unless you change your view.
And sure, Ukraine is a poor country, but faaar from that bad that you have in your mind.
Have you ever been to Philippines? That is a "dirt poor" country.
here is a picture I found the other day on VK - this might explain to you why she don't want to meet you in her town..
(http://pp.userapi.com/c639522/v639522677/3cc55/xZGKOATAF-0.jpg)
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So you accuse the girl of being a visa mule and are then surprised she goes silent. What is wrong with this scenario?
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If she is the possible "one" and can obtain a U.K. visa, I don't see what the big issue is. It's not as if you have to marry her on that visit.
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If she is the possible "one" and can obtain a U.K. visa, I don't see what the big issue is.
It's not as if you have to marry her on that visit.
Any sincere girl would want to see her romantic interest again. She wouldn't refuse
to see him in Kiev or someplace else. I highly doubt that she is the one.
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Any sincere man would not accuse the girl of being a visa whore.
-
Any sincere man would not accuse the girl of being a visa whore.
I didn't read that he wrote that.
A sincere man wouldn't call her that unless he really, really believed it to
be true. Then he would dump her on the spot and never communicate
with her again.
Since he wrote that, I have no idea what his motivations are. The only
reason that I write advice is for the newbies and lurkers. He doesn't
follow enough advice for me to waste my time writing it.
-
here is a picture I found the other day on VK - this might explain to you why she don't want to meet you in her town..
(http://pp.userapi.com/c639522/v639522677/3cc55/xZGKOATAF-0.jpg)
He has been told this numerous times by me. Others have disagreed with my assertion. I do think this is a factor for a woman in a small centre.
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He has been told this numerous times by me. Others have disagreed with my assertion. I do think this is a factor for a woman in a small centre.
If Trenchcoat looked like Brad Pitt and had as big a wallet, I don't think she'd piss him off by resisting his suggestion they meet in her small town. She's either ashamed of Trench or doesn't think enough of him yet to introduce him to those near her.
-
The babushka network is vast and
Fearsome!
:)
I do think this could be a part of her reasoning as I said before.
But the sticking point is turning down time spent together in other EU cities ,as well as acting her age in general.
If you *have* to act a certain way, or
Struggle on even where to see each other, in the initial part of a relationship, then it's far too much work.it's not supposed to be beating your head agaisnt the wall. Just an compatable couple, but a big percentage of couples end up incompatible if you want to be jaded about it lol.
Like nightwish my methods are likely a horrible way.
I only met women that contacted me first.
I only saw women that we truly clicked right off the bat. no drama, no doubts or second guessing , no lack of communication, who pursued me.
No that doesn't mean asking me out for the date, it means if I said let's go for sushi at 7pm, they said - yes great! Or said sure, but can we get Mexican food instead? ( said by no RW ever lol )
and showed real .interest in spending time with me, regardless location. A woman that called texted or emailed me randomly, even if I hadn't at the time.
I only dated women I could hold a conversation with, since my Russian is poor, that means they spoke English.
I dint date anyone who was difficult ,cold,immature, or hard to read.
So sure I likely missed some nice women who if I acted differently, pursued more, or allowed time to warm up or know me better,or i them, might have been compatible.
But I dint need 500 compatible women.I did not care if I missed some, I only need one.
One who I could be completely myself, which includes the more polished mature person, and the goofball ,difficult,cocky , stubborn part.
I am confident with all my flaws I'm a good catch so it's just not that hard to find a nice, sunny despostioned, considerate,woman.
In the end though, I was just really lucky.
My wife is the salt of the earth, a decembrist.I know this from experience, not just saying it.
(If you don't know the term , read up on Maria Volkonskaya )
Good luck.
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I do think this could be a part of her reasoning as I said before.
Nope it is an excuse. For what ever reason and we will never know for sure. Could be A LOT of things, many already mentioned before. Many girls will only meet in their city initially, some will not care and meet in the BIG city. One thing for sure, if meeting in a smaller city, she will more likely not join you in a hotel!! apt, fine. ))
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Nope it is an excuse.
You can't possibly know that.
MissAmeno once posted about this very issue, with examples in her own small city.
I think a generous man would give the girl the benefit of the doubt, rather than get into a dispute about the issue.
I'm not suggesting the girl has feelings for Trench, just that there are no hard and fast rules.
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You can't possibly know that.
MissAmeno once posted about this very issue, with examples in her own small city.
I think a generous man would give the girl the benefit of the doubt, rather than get into a dispute about the issue.
I'm not suggesting the girl has feelings for Trench, just that there are no hard and fast rules.
Boethius, we cannot know and MY experience is that if the lass is 'in to you' - she won't give a ... what any 'network' thinks ... My caveat being I dated women in their mid to late thirties and above.
As ever, Trench had good advice and he will still be posting on here in months to come about this lass..
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She is still at an age where she could find a local partner. The last thing she would need is tongues wagging.
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The last thing she would need is tongues wagging.
Regardless of the specific case here -- that is an issue generally.
In cities a lot larger than Kherson girls are wary of circumstances.It should not be underestimated.
There can be a lot of reasons -- even with a very suitable guy -let alone one as unsuitable as TC !
As an example --a girl may have met multiple obviously "western" guys -- note -- I am saying met -- as in had a coffee or meal -- and the last thing she needs is getting labelled over it.
Note -- a very large % of guys ARE UNSUITABLE !!So 5 minutes into a meeting a girl may want to be somewhere else !
Guys from somewhere else are very often very obvious -- and generally it is understood why they are probably there -so it will draw attention .
Note -- this has nothing to do with an established relationship ( although even then discretion is appropriate) but is particularly significant in early meeting stage.The bigger the age difference -- the more this is important.Until allthe early hurdles are past -- don't expect to be included in her life.
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She is still at an age where she could find a local partner. The last thing she would need is tongues wagging.
This is the 'silly' thing about the FSU .... the belief that a woman in her mid thirties and later cannot find a man .... Mostly, they have no problem - just choose not to - based on previous experience - that's MY experience
-
It's the attitude toward women. Before the Soviet collapse, if an FSUW wasn't married by age 20 (at least in Ukraine), the perception was, she would die unmarried.
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It's the attitude toward women. Before the Soviet collapse, if an FSUW wasn't married by age 20 (at least in Ukraine), the perception was, she would die unmarried.
It WAS, surely ? ... MY take on that is that those who perpetuate that myth do western guys a favour ..
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I think a generous man would give the girl the benefit of the doubt, rather than get into a dispute about the issue.
Didn't Trench meet the woman he had sex with outside her hometown their first meeting? How long does a guy have to wait to meet friends and family? After a first meeting, both man and woman need to decide what direction they're going. They're either going separate ways or going to enter into a relationship. I don't think the girl saw Trench as a life partner. She stopped communicating with him because he resisted her suggestions of meeting somewhere else, turned off the money, and/or didn't like what was coming out of his mouth. If Trench was hot to trot, he'd be meeting her family right now.
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It WAS, surely ? ... MY take on that is that those who perpetuate that myth do western guys a favour ..
Still the same attitude. Don't you see it there?
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Still the same attitude. Don't you see it there?
My more 'recent' dating experiences were mainly with Russian ladies - not by preference - just how it worked out - and they didn't suffer from lack of local attention ... Mostly rejected - because too many guys think they'd be so 'desperate'(!?)
-
I say this as a woman. You don't know if those women are getting attention. Any woman you date is going to tell you men are chasing her. She thinks you will then believe she is more worthy of your attention.
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I visited with a woman from Sumy, she worked as a teacher 1-3 grade. She told me she wanted me to come there and meet her, see her hometown and all (and meet her friends and mom), but we needed to act carefully when we where out on town so she would not get the gossip after.
I was there for a week, and she was open from start and told me that we would avoid the areas where people would recognize her just because of that, at least until we decided if we were going to be a couple she needed this, and I had no problem, I understood her situation and tried to look "just like a friend" when we was out
She did take me to restaurants and pubs out dancing in the city though, we just kept a "safe distance" between us in public.
The following weekend after I got home we talked on Skype, and she told me 18 of the parents had come up to her the following week asking who that foreigner was that she had been seen with "out partying" last week. :D
I stood out like a sore thumb and she was talk of the town for a couple of weeks..
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I say this as a woman. You don't know if those women are getting attention. Any woman you date is going to tell you men are chasing her. She thinks you will then believe she is more worthy of your attention.
I say this as a man, Boethius - I know (we, men know) - I ( we) have eyes and ears...;)
Examples being:
1/ I set up a FB profile in Svetlana's name - using only her photos - to promote an apartment for rent - she had 500 plus 'friends' in five days ;) To calm things down - she asked me to put a photo of me with her in the profile photo. No bikini images were used...
2/ I saw the comments she got on dating sites - mostly brainless
3/ I observe men decreasing their proximity - when I turn up on the beach - much later - as my skin is not melanin rich !
Not all ladies need to advise their partners of their eye-candy appeal. IF you tell your man of interest from another man - I don't assume it's a 'warning' or a 'don't forget I'm appreciated by other men' - more sharing your pleasure - with your best friend, surely ? ....
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here is a picture I found the other day on VK - this might explain to you why she don't want to meet you in her town..
(http://pp.userapi.com/c639522/v639522677/3cc55/xZGKOATAF-0.jpg)
That photo is just so funny, lol. Yeah your probably right in that I could have handles it better. I think as I haven't had much time in the FSU it was a difficulty for me trying to get around the cultural differences. Perhaps a more direct approach as 2tallbill suggests works better there as the women are quite direct (not to say you can't talk to them about the ins and outs but doing so doesn't always seem to get you far if my experience is anything to go by).
Reminds me when I've talked to her on Skype when she has been outside the apartment blocks she sometimes looks to either side of her and looks anxious, perhaps this is the reason why - she is under babushka surveillance ;D
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Ok, so you are still stuck on this girl for whatever reason.
You let her drive the bus, either stop doing that or stop pursuing FSUW.
My simple solution
Buy tickets to Kiev, send her the itinerary and tell her you want her to meet you there.
If she refuses, you already know there are millions of unmarried women in Kiev. If she
comes to see you then you start driving the bus. If she doesn't then she doesn't care
about you so you need move on and meet other girls in Kiev.
Clearly you don't understand women and coming up with reasons about why they do
what they do is an exercise in futility. I understand them 8000 times better than you
and I am constantly mystified. We weren't supposed to be able to understand them!
Who cares what the reason is? It's probably that she doesn't want babuska's tongues
wagging and speculating. As for the rest of Europe, you need to start driving the bus.
HOW TO DRIVE THE BUS
First step is to buy tickets to Kiev. Don't tell her first just do it. Then she will decide,
and you can stop worrying or thinking. You are the one that let this get out of hand.
Personally I think that this "relationship is deader than viable flat Earth theories but
stop whining about it. You need to either sh!t or get off the pot.
Buy the tickets to Kiev and the problem will resolve itself one way or another.
Don't threaten to do this just do it. When you send her your itinerary don't get all
wordy about it. Write something like:
_______________
Hello Sweet Buns (put here name here rather than sweet buns)
I purchased tickets to Kiev and will be there from 9/1 till 9/15 and
would love for you to meet me there. Let me know if you can make it.
Have a Sunny Day!
Bus Driver (put your name there rather than bus driver)
_______________
She will send you a diatribe saying blah, blah, blah
mad, mad, mad. Angry, Angry, sad, sad. more blah
Sweet Buns
________________________________
To which you reply
Dear Sweet Buns,
Should I be expecting you? or not?
Bus Driver
THAT'S IT,
No long winded explanations etc, no answers to questions, no offers
of paying for her bus tickets NONE OF THAT STUFF!
You wait until she says that she is coming before you offer any of that
stuff. DO NOT WRITE HER IF YOU DON'T HEAR BACK FROM HER.
No more analysis of what makes her tick. She ticks and that's all you
need to know.
If she writes back that she can't be there on those dates because her
Granny is meeting the Pope or that she is needed for world peace or
or she will be on Survivor during that time.
You write the following letter,
___________________
Dear Sweet Buns
Sorry that you can't make it, Kiev won't be
the same without you
Cheers
Bus Driver
Now you have a blueprint. The only way to f#ck it up is if you add additional words
and explanations, so don't do it. You will have your answer one way or another.
Drive the bus and don't waste time on a girl just because she is hot, naughty or both.
Udachi!
Bill
This is good advice I think Bill, I will do this. My thoughts are perhaps I should be this direct in most future dealings with her or other girls do you think? Up to now I have not as I thought it would clash with her directness as we can't both be direct but this is probably more western thinking. I'm thinking in FSM probably deal with their woman in a direct manner and get directness back and still push through with their position on the subject matter even if the woman disagrees, what do you think?
I'm thinking Kiev will be ideal as plenty of women to call up or can travel onwards to Kharkiv, I could possibly roll it into my 3 month stay idea to give myself plenty of opportunity. Whether she could stay with me long term then a week who knows.
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Any sincere man would not accuse the girl of being a visa whore.
I brought that up as I thought that it might help us understand each other better - since in the prior messages she only responded to ones where I did open up to her. Perhaps it backfired this time and I hurt her feelings, I just wanted to make a breakthrough in the standoff and possibly this was not the best way. I kind of hoped she would have replied that she was not, etc and/or reason why she doesn't want to see me in Kherson, etc. I mean she surely must know that many girls do do the visa whore thing, scam guys etc, so should want to show me she is not one of these girls?
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She is still at an age where she could find a local partner. The last thing she would need is tongues wagging.
True it could screw her up finding a local partner if she got dissed for being a sexpat lover or the like I guess.
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I say this as a man, Boethius - I know (we, men know) - I ( we) have eyes and ears...;)
Examples being:
1/ I set up a FB profile in Svetlana's name - using only her photos - to promote an apartment for rent - she had 500 plus 'friends' in five days ;) To calm things down - she asked me to put a photo of me with her in the profile photo. No bikini images were used...
2/ I saw the comments she got on dating sites - mostly brainless
3/ I observe men decreasing their proximity - when I turn up on the beach - much later - as my skin is not melanin rich !
Not all ladies need to advise their partners of their eye-candy appeal. IF you tell your man of interest from another man - I don't assume it's a 'warning' or a 'don't forget I'm appreciated by other men' - more sharing your pleasure - with your best friend, surely ? ....
Same as me, me mobe, my skin is also not good for suntanning, just goes bright red , burns and flakes off, yuck! even when suncream is used. Girl on the other hand tans lovely. Best tan I can manage is when its not too sunny/hot and a high sun factor cream used and not too long in the sun, then I may get a suntan for a few days, lol.
You enjoy the brainless comments particularly so no doubt ;)
Well I've no doubt my girl has eye candy appeal but probably suffers locally in Kherson as most of the guys there will be poor, little prospects. My main problem is that when/if I take her back to UK that all changes and she goes to having lots of guys with lots of prospects then 'personalities' on top of that. That is my great fear with bring her to UK, even for a week never mind about permanently through marriage. Even for a week she could easily take of with some other guy and while my losses are not significant I really don't like people taking the pee, I really do hate users. I just can't tell if she is like this, putting on a good act knowing she has to for a while to be convincing and can't keep it up for long or what - that is why I want more time with her outside of UK to be sure on her (her shopping trips just made me more unsure and questionable of her motives). That is where I am coming from on this, I mean I judge myself as a decent enough looking guy and have some wealth but compared to some guys, well the competition is a lot tougher against other UK guys than against Ukrainian guys let us say.
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Trench, If you go into this venture worrying about competition..this is not the venture for you..
There are richer, better looking guys ... There always will be..Deal with it....!
You need to work on that 'sense of humour' of yours, first.
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Same as me, me mobe, my skin is also not good for suntanning, just goes bright red , burns and flakes off, yuck! even when suncream is used. Girl on the other hand tans lovely. Best tan I can manage is when its not too sunny/hot and a high sun factor cream used and not too long in the sun, then I may get a suntan for a few days, lol.
You enjoy the brainless comments particularly so no doubt ;)
Well I've no doubt my girl has eye candy appeal but probably suffers locally in Kherson as most of the guys there will be poor, little prospects. My main problem is that when/if I take her back to UK that all changes and she goes to having lots of guys with lots of prospects then 'personalities' on top of that. That is my great fear with bring her to UK, even for a week never mind about permanently through marriage. Even for a week she could easily take of with some other guy and while my losses are not significant I really don't like people taking the pee, I really do hate users. I just can't tell if she is like this, putting on a good act knowing she has to for a while to be convincing and can't keep it up for long or what - that is why I want more time with her outside of UK to be sure on her (her shopping trips just made me more unsure and questionable of her motives). That is where I am coming from on this, I mean I judge myself as a decent enough looking guy and have some wealth but compared to some guys, well the competition is a lot tougher against other UK guys than against Ukrainian guys let us say.
Trench,
Let's try this one more time. The part I have in bold above is one of your main problems. If you find the right one, the worry of other men will just dissolve. My girl has come to America. We have been on the beach together. Other guys looking. I have no worry. Just as she is not worried about other women when I am visiting her. You have such low self esteem you cannot trust that any woman would want you. YOU NEED TO FIX THIS! Only you (and possibly a therapist) can fix this issue. Distrust is cancer to a relationship.
You have been told almost unanimously by everyone here to drop this girl. I like Beel's Bus Driver/Kiev trip idea, but it is too late with this one. Take your lessons learned and move on. Get your trust issues sorted out. Without that, you will never find true love. As Moby said, there will always be richer, better looking and funnier men around. But if she loves you, then you win. If I had a woman that only cared about my bank account (and I have had this, in America), then I would drop her immediately (and I did, in America). There is enough future problems with you and Mrs Trenchcoat just on cultural issues, that you don't need to add paranoia to the mix. Looking back, the only arguments I have with my lady are because either she doesn't understand how things work in the US or I don't understand how things work in her country. I don't worry that she is banging every guy in the block and she isn't worried that I am out banging women in my town. This is what we all strive for and what you should look for.
Going to live in Ukraine for 3 months would be fun, but I doubt you would have much success. But if you do it for the adventure, then you will have fun. As has been said before, you are lucky to be so close to Eastern Europe. Take advantage of that. I know you don't like the idea of spending hours on Skype, but the people that have been successful (since Skype has been available) have used it extensively. There is a built in translator. Others use Viber or Whats App. If you cannot put in the time nurturing and growing the relationship using technology, it will be more difficult to be successful.
I image you feel beat up a lot on here. Only speaking for myself, I want people to be successful in anything they strive for. I hope you are successful, but you need to fix yourself first.
HDL
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YOU NEED TO FIX THIS!
+1
You can't keep operating with these thoughts in your head.
My main problem is that when/if I take her back to UK that all changes and she goes to having lots of guys with lots of prospects then 'personalities' on top of that. That is my great fear with bring her to UK, even for a week never mind about permanently through marriage.
I took Angel Eyes to North Dakota. At one time they had 70 men for every woman in
Williston ND which was part of my territory. That includes 3 year old girls and 90 year
old crones. There were ZERO available women. Imagine a toothless woman 40 years old
but looked like 55, who had facial tattoos, a heroin addiction, weighed 300lbs and an
ankle bracelet telling her parole officer where she was would have a circle of young
men around her every one of which made at least $100K per year.
When we went into Walmart, men would stop whatever they were doing and stare at
Angel Eyes, Smiley girl would tease her about it. I had ZERO fear because Angel Eyes
loves, loves, loves me.
I've said this before, but you didn't process it. I will emphasize this again.
YOU HAVE TO WIN THE GIRLS HEART.
You have to win the girls heart, she wants you to do it. She wants to be seduced, she
wants to fall in love, this is the most important thing to her. YOU HAVE TO DO THIS!!!
Stop thinking that she thinks like a man. Get that idea out of your head. A good girl
wants your love more than your wallet. Every girl would prefer her man had money
but she really wants to love and be loved. She has wanted this since she was a little
girl and she wants it now.
She wants you to win her heart.
I think that the opportunity with this girl has passed. When you've won a girls heart
all those other men have NOTHING.
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YOU HAVE TO WIN THE GIRLS HEART.
You have to win the girls heart, she wants you to do it. She wants to be seduced, she
wants to fall in love, this is the most important thing to her. YOU HAVE TO DO THIS!!!
Stop thinking that she thinks like a man. Get that idea out of your head. A good girl
wants your love more than your wallet. Every girl would prefer her man had money
but she really wants to love and be loved. She has wanted this since she was a little
girl and she wants it now.
She wants you to win her heart.
I think that the opportunity with this girl has passed. When you've won a girls heart
all those other men have NOTHING.
WOW Big Bill; as you explained it, we may have moved into a new era.
I think women will no longer want to file for divorce.
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+1
You can't keep operating with these thoughts in your head.
I took Angel Eyes to North Dakota. At one time they had 70 men for every woman in
Williston ND which was part of my territory. That includes 3 year old girls and 90 year
old crones. There were ZERO available women. Imagine a toothless woman 40 years old
but looked like 55, who had facial tattoos, a heroin addiction, weighed 300lbs and an
ankle bracelet telling her parole officer where she was would have a circle of young
men around her every one of which made at least $100K per year.
When we went into Walmart, men would stop whatever they were doing and stare at
Angel Eyes, Smiley girl would tease her about it. I had ZERO fear because Angel Eyes
loves, loves, loves me.
I've said this before, but you didn't process it. I will emphasize this again.
YOU HAVE TO WIN THE GIRLS HEART.
You have to win the girls heart, she wants you to do it. She wants to be seduced, she
wants to fall in love, this is the most important thing to her. YOU HAVE TO DO THIS!!!
Stop thinking that she thinks like a man. Get that idea out of your head. A good girl
wants your love more than your wallet. Every girl would prefer her man had money
but she really wants to love and be loved. She has wanted this since she was a little
girl and she wants it now.
She wants you to win her heart.
I think that the opportunity with this girl has passed. When you've won a girls heart
all those other men have NOTHING.
Yeah I kind of told myself to dismiss these thoughts after being with her the first time. The loggerheads we got to second time of being together that she for some unexplained reason didn't want me to visit Kherson. Then the shopping trip which yes I was partly to blame but didn't think it would go much beyond as I had envisaged and cultural differences made it all come back. Even by FSU standards it seems she is a lot more uptight about the order of visiting. I know I should have gotten this straight first off but didn't realise she meant she wanted to visit me because of language issue which seemed better later as she got used to English more.
Anyway, how to win her heart I am not entirely sure but I'm guessing it's not done at the shopping mall, lol. Strange as taking her there seemed actually to be detrimental to our relationship even from her side I wonder. I'm pretty sure I lost a lot of ground trying to win her heart in our arguments over the past few weeks.
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Yeah I kind of told myself to dismiss these thoughts after being with her the first time. The loggerheads we got to second time of being together that she for some unexplained reason didn't want me to visit Kherson. Then the shopping trip which yes I was partly to blame but didn't think it would go much beyond as I had envisaged and cultural differences made it all come back. Even by FSU standards it seems she is a lot more uptight about the order of visiting. I know I should have gotten this straight first off but didn't realise she meant she wanted to visit me because of language issue which seemed better later as she got used to English more.
Anyway, how to win her heart I am not entirely sure but I'm guessing it's not done at the shopping mall, lol. Strange as taking her there seemed actually to be detrimental to our relationship even from her side I wonder. I'm pretty sure I lost a lot of ground trying to win her heart in our arguments over the past few weeks.
Trench, you are not getting it. You will not win this girls heart. Move on. Let her move on.
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Trench, you've taken a beating here but look on the bright side, if we didn't pressure you to move on from the last two ladies you wanted to hook up with, you may have wasted more time and a lot more money. We may have saved you $10,000. Since we saved you so much, could you take us shopping?
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Trench, you've taken a beating here but look on the bright side, if we didn't pressure you to move on from the last two ladies you wanted to hook up with, you may have wasted more time and a lot more money. We may have saved you $10,000. Since we saved you so much, could you take us shopping?
Love the pun :D Well, yes you may have well have done. Girl on second time were together was talking about how a friend of hers who is also dating an English guy, he is 'apparently' paying her £ or $200 a month so she can go out and buy clothes, even while he is not there! (not married either) I think she was kind of being suggestive that I should do the same, lol. That and she needs some new winter wear as her fur coat was '3 years old now' - well I've seen it on her vk page and it looks fine to me. Though I am not presently communicating with girl I am kind of on the fence still on this one as I kind of care about her and like her. Her interest in me providing for her at such an early stage (though we did both agree we were/wanted a 'serious' relationship - something she seems to capitalize on as a reason I should spend out so) kind of gives out vibes which makes me question what her interest really is with me. Other times she can be quite affectionate though.
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Trench's relationship is with this forum. Not a woman.
He comes back here like a lost puppy dog. Alternately justifying his infatuation with this woman and castigating her for not being the woman he wants her to be.
I can tell from my own personal experience that the right relationship with a woman will be very apparent. If she is not the right woman, the next woman will come along in less than 60 seconds. I am not writing this for Trench. He has demonstrated that the only advice he will consider is that which (in his mind) justifies the relationship. But there was something Bill said, probably two years ago, that stuck in my head. He said that you should be the best man that you can be and that if the woman does not love that particular man, then she is not the right one. And immediately go on to the next one.
Life is short. Do not dwell on something that will not work. Instead, be the best man you can be and move forward.
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One Ukrainian Gal I had a fairly serious relationship going with was working some hours at a second job just to earn around $100 extra for the entire month. This was back many years ago.
I feared she was going to have exhaustion breakdown, so I told her to quit that second job and I would send her $100 each month.
She quickly turned it down and was actually hurt that I would suggest it.
This is probably how most of the 'good' Gals would react.
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One Ukrainian Gal I had a fairly serious relationship going with was working some hours at a second job just to earn around $100 extra for the entire month. This was back many years ago.
I feared she was going to have exhaustion breakdown, so I told her to quit that second job and I would send her $100 each month.
She quickly turned it down and was actually hurt that I would suggest it.
This is probably how most of the 'good' Gals would react.
I think this highlights my problem ML, in that the girl is not a good girl, not that she's really bad but she is the way she is and you can't really change someone. I think she doesn't go out with the idea to scam someone (or me, well I hope not) but she has her own ideas about shopping and doesn't care whether it crosses the line/looks bad on her at the detriment of what is thought of her. This is why I think she will struggle to find someone else, local or internationally unless it is a real rich dude who doesn't mind paying for all her shopping wishes and does not worry if she is just with him for this purpose more than she is with because she wants to be with him. I mean she is rather pretty and a decent figure so I think otherwise she would be with someone locally but the local guys are put of by the relatively high maintenance costs attached. So no I don't think she is really bad just a moderately bad girl whereas a good girl for most men including myself would obviously be the ideal. That's the way I see it.
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I think this highlights my problem ML, in that the girl is not a good girl, not that she's really bad but she is the way she is and you can't really change someone. I think she doesn't go out with the idea to scam someone (or me, well I hope not) but she has her own ideas about shopping and doesn't care whether it crosses the line/looks bad on her at the detriment of what is thought of her. This is why I think she will struggle to find someone else, local or internationally unless it is a real rich dude who doesn't mind paying for all her shopping wishes and does not worry if she is just with him for this purpose more than she is with because she wants to be with him. I mean she is rather pretty and a decent figure so I think otherwise she would be with someone locally but the local guys are put of by the relatively high maintenance costs attached. So no I don't think she is really bad just a moderately bad girl whereas a good girl for most men including myself would obviously be the ideal. That's the way I see it.
Am I the only one on here who desperately hopes Kherson girl shows up with her side of the relationship? It would be epic.
HDL
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She won't *play* that locally.
The difference is locally ,a man wanting to pursue would
be happy to show off what he could get for her.It would be an understanding she needn't play at.
Other men wouldn't want to pursue in the first place,also understood fully beforehand on both parties. Black and white ,no grey area.
You fall in a grey area that doesn't fit her experience so far, or culture.
I don't doubt she has little idea where you are coming from, just as you dont understand her.
I can't imagine you truly envision her as an equal partner,one who wants to build a life together as a team player.
Why on earth do you waste a second of your time over it, or hers I've no idea. Not compatible, not really comfortable with each other or on the same page.This shouldn't be work, it should be the have fun stage together just discovering if you actually have feelings beyond infatuation.
It would be easy and relaxed with the right person for you, (and you, her) who after two visits adores you.
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Am I the only one on here who desperately hopes Kherson girl shows up with her side of the relationship? It would be epic.
HDL
Not alone -- now that would be interesting!
As it happens --we do have a few fsuw who read forums. Some I know not far from Kherson do for sure.
Before anyone asks -- they use it to get ideas on what to write to guys about !
Not sure what they would ever make of a TC though !
There is a category of fsuw who get very pissed off at a western guy and then go searching the internet !
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I think this highlights my problem ML, in that the girl is not a good girl, not that she's really bad but she is the way she is and you can't really change someone. I think she doesn't go out with the idea to scam someone (or me, well I hope not) but she has her own ideas about shopping and doesn't care whether it crosses the line/looks bad on her at the detriment of what is thought of her. This is why I think she will struggle to find someone else, local or internationally unless it is a real rich dude who doesn't mind paying for all her shopping wishes and does not worry if she is just with him for this purpose more than she is with because she wants to be with him. I mean she is rather pretty and a decent figure so I think otherwise she would be with someone locally but the local guys are put of by the relatively high maintenance costs attached. So no I don't think she is really bad just a moderately bad girl whereas a good girl for most men including myself would obviously be the ideal. That's the way I see it.
There is a word for your attitude, chistoplujstvo. It translates literally to "clean spit(ting). It means someone prone to judgment from his high tower, having never lived the hardships the person he is judging has faced.
Most FSUW are "marketing" themselves to WM based on their body and looks. And then, when they behave as do women who are marketing themselves on these criteria, you are shocked and surprised.
I assume you never complained to the girl when you were f##cking her brains out in Cyprus, or Kyiv, for that matter. You never told her "NO! I don't want to spend $400 on clothing for you.". It's all her fault. She proposes a vacation, and you jump. You buy her ticket, you pay for a hotel, you pay for a car, you even put money in her bank account to ensure she can get a visa. And then, somehow, because she assumes you have money and she has the attitudes of her culture, she is a "bad" girl.
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:thumbsup:
There is a word for your attitude, chistoplujstvo. It translates literally to "clean spit(ting). It means someone prone to judgment from his high tower, having never lived the hardships the person he is judging has faced.
Most FSUW are "marketing" themselves to WM based on their body and looks. And then, when they behave as do women who are marketing themselves on these criteria, you are shocked and surprised.
I assume you never complained to the girl when you were f##cking her brains out in Cyprus, or Kyiv, for that matter. You never told her "NO! I don't want to spend $400 on clothing for you.". It's all her fault. She proposes a vacation, and you jump. You buy her ticket, you pay for a hotel, you pay for a car, you even put money in her bank account to ensure she can get a visa. And then, somehow, because she assumes you have money and she has the attitudes of her culture, she is a "bad" girl.
I asked about exactly how much he did spend -- etc etc
I don't think he is a "f##cking her brains out" out sort of guy -- and I mean not capable ! ;D
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This shouldn't be work, it should be the have fun stage together just discovering if you
actually have feelings beyond infatuation.
It would be easy and relaxed with the right person for you, (and you, her) who after two visits adores you.
+1
This should be the most fun and exciting time of your life. The hard part should
be missing each other. If this isn't happening to you then you aren't pursuing
the right girl. If you aren't pursuing the right girl then you need to start over
and start searching for the right girl.
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There is a word for your attitude, chistoplujstvo. It translates literally to "clean spit(ting). It means someone prone to judgment from his high tower, having never lived the hardships the person he is judging has faced.
Most FSUW are "marketing" themselves to WM based on their body and looks. And then, when they behave as do women who are marketing themselves on these criteria, you are shocked and surprised.
I assume you never complained to the girl when you were f##cking her brains out in Cyprus, or Kyiv, for that matter. You never told her "NO! I don't want to spend $400 on clothing for you.". It's all her fault. She proposes a vacation, and you jump. You buy her ticket, you pay for a hotel, you pay for a car, you even put money in her bank account to ensure she can get a visa. And then, somehow, because she assumes you have money and she has the attitudes of her culture, she is a "bad" girl.
- attitudes of her culture being the hotter a girl can make herself look the more validity there is to ask to buy her clothes shopping? or perhaps theoretically a lot of random women in general. I know some members here have come forth and stated they met girls where they asked for nothing or close as and some also advise a guy to walk if they even so much as start on this track - which I think I will do in future.
I think you underestimate that there are hardships in the west too Boethius not necessarily the same as Ukraine but I indeed hardly had a cushioned upbringing. There were realities to deal with when growing up and that often focused on Parents telling 'no you can't have this or that as I have no money' - standing around in front of a cashier all day with credit card out was not an option for them. I just think a lot of FSW seem out of touch with how reality really is in the west- I mean I have to go out and earn that money, it can at times be stressful and hard work doing so. To see it frittered away pointlessly in overpriced t-shirts and dresses, etc when said person already has decent clothes just seems like a punishment to me.
Yes, I can see now that you are right on one aspect that I unwittingly put across an image that I 'have money' this was a mistake that I don't intend to retread. This started with my profile photo I believe that at the time I took as I thought it looked nice but now I realize that it might give the impression I am loaded. My work I will have to explain better and dumb it down a bit so the girl does not get the wrong impression. Also, like you say going for nice hotels, hire car, holidays is a big mistake as girl thinks money is unlimited which of course it is not. From now on I will ensure I go for the standard level on everything and focus more on the dating and getting to know the girl particularly her background and where she lives.
I think this was also a problem with girl as only once or twice did I really get to crack the ice on her sharing her life, meaning her inner life - how things really are beyond the everyday topics of conversation. I too could have shared more of my everyday way of living and I think getting down to doing this with a girl is the utmost priority so I'm really part of her life rather than a bf on the outside of her real life.
So yes there was a number of mistakes I unwittingly made along the way through not understanding her background well enough, culture and way to go about dating an FSW that would set me up better for success. All I can think of is that this experience should help me to get it right next time.
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- attitudes of her culture being the hotter a girl can make herself look the more validity there is to ask to buy her clothes shopping? or perhaps theoretically a lot of random women in general. I know some members here have come forth and stated they met girls where they asked for nothing or close as and some also advise a guy to walk if they even so much as start on this track - which I think I will do in future.
No. The fact you can't understand what I'm talking about proves my point.
I think you underestimate that there are hardships in the west too Boethius not necessarily the same as Ukraine but I indeed hardly had a cushioned upbringing. There were realities to deal with when growing up and that often focused on Parents telling 'no you can't have this or that as I have no money' - standing around in front of a cashier all day with credit card out was not an option for them. I just think a lot of FSW seem out of touch with how reality really is in the west- I mean I have to go out and earn that money, it can at times be stressful and hard work doing so. To see it frittered away pointlessly in overpriced t-shirts and dresses, etc when said person already has decent clothes just seems like a punishment to me.
Hardships in Ukraine - no jobs, no government support for the unemployed, no future, no hope, endemic corruption, a government made up of thieves who care not a whit for the populace, war.
Hardships in the West - I had to work to get what I have.
Yes, I can see now that you are right on one aspect that I unwittingly put across an image that I 'have money' this was a mistake that I don't intend to retread. This started with my profile photo I believe that at the time I took as I thought it looked nice but now I realize that it might give the impression I am loaded. My work I will have to explain better and dumb it down a bit so the girl does not get the wrong impression. Also, like you say going for nice hotels, hire car, holidays is a big mistake as girl thinks money is unlimited which of course it is not. From now on I will ensure I go for the standard level on everything and focus more on the dating and getting to know the girl particularly her background and where she lives.
I'm right on all aspects. You just don't understand this.
I think this was also a problem with girl as only once or twice did I really get to crack the ice on her sharing her life, meaning her inner life - how things really are beyond the everyday topics of conversation. I too could have shared more of my everyday way of living and I think getting down to doing this with a girl is the utmost priority so I'm really part of her life rather than a bf on the outside of her real life.
This again proves what I am saying.
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I think many people trying this foreign relationship stuff out are completely clueless. I was clueless, though I tried to learn. My wife was clueless, though she used the news and movies to fill in the gap in her knowledge. :o
The term 'Superpower country' seemed to create a certain image in her mind. Imagine her shock when she realized our roads have potholes! That the average salary of the majority of the country can not afford nice vacations overseas and nice large homes. and... entry level jobs for those without education pay tiny wages. :-\
This is not an easy thing to do. IMO anyone who attempts finding a FSW should give up trying to be an expert or trying to control or understand how your woman thinks. Just accept she thinks as she does. Also, stop with the endless probing questions to your woman. Your future wife will thank you for this.
BTW - My wife says, the man gave his paycheck to the woman to control how money is spent. Not sure why this is or how common it is, but I have my opinions on this. I have personally witnessed this as my wife pointed it out several times with younger couples in Moscow.
Good luck!
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My wife says, the man gave his paycheck to the woman to control how money is spent. Not sure why this is or how common it is
In Ukraine, the woman always controlled the family's money. Keep in mind, this was before banks. My husband lived in then Leningrad for almost six years, and said that women controlled the family finances in the families he knew there, as well, but Russia is more multicultural than is Ukraine, so it may vary across the country.
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BTW - My wife says, the man gave his paycheck to the woman to control how money is spent. Not sure why this is or how common it is, but I have my opinions on this. I have personally witnessed this as my wife pointed it out several times with younger couples in Moscow.
My wife of over 5 years never asked me for control over money. When she wants something big, she asks. I think money should be controlled by the wiser more responsible spouse. A fool and money will part. In the FSU, with a high percentage of men womanizing and drinking, it's understandable that wives have control over money.
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In Ukraine, the woman always controlled the family's money. Keep in mind, this was before banks. My husband lived in then Leningrad for almost six years, and said that women controlled the family finances in the families he knew there, as well, but Russia is more multicultural than is Ukraine, so it may vary across the country.
My Father did this also in the UK but was no alcoholic but then he gre up in the fifties and times were different then. In the UK back in the 80s & 90s with PM's Thatcher & Major (Conservatives) times were hard like you describe in Ukraine - no work, mass unemployment, high interest rates, house repossessions, and a government that were full of crooks. If you we;re to watch the film 'The Full Monty' the deprivation depicted in that of the UK at the time is pretty accurate. If there was work to be had it was at rock bottom wages and usually hard going at that. As Flit correctly highlights, the majority of people in US & UK are not real wealthy, even in UK there are plenty of people that live week by week trying to make the two ends meet with just a few quid left in their pocket at the end of the day. There are pot holes here too, in fact seems to have increased a fair bit over the past few years ;)
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I think you underestimate that there are hardships in the west too Boethius not necessarily the same as Ukraine but I indeed hardly had a cushioned upbringing.
Imagine that you had a 17 year old daughter who was pretty good at ballet.
At a show one of the local party officials took a shine to her and told you to
send her to his house so he and his buddies could have sex with her for
several days. You said no way dewd so you were shipped 3000 miles
away to be worked and starved to death.
Your wife loses her job and apartment and goes out to beg for food but one
night she falls asleep and freezes to death, while your daughter is raped
repeatedly by the party officials then dumped in the forest and dies.
Are you trying to compare your rough up bringing with somebody who lived
in the above circumstances? Because if your upbringing are similar to the
above story, then you have a good argument.
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I think many people trying this foreign relationship stuff out are completely clueless. I was clueless, though I tried to learn. My wife was clueless, though she used the news and movies to fill in the gap in her knowledge. :o
The term 'Superpower country' seemed to create a certain image in her mind. Imagine her shock when she realized our roads have potholes! That the average salary of the majority of the country can not afford nice vacations overseas and nice large homes. and... entry level jobs for those without education pay tiny wages. :-\
This is not an easy thing to do. IMO anyone who attempts finding a FSW should give up trying to be an expert or trying to control or understand how your woman thinks. Just accept she thinks as she does. Also, stop with the endless probing questions to your woman. Your future wife will thank you for this.
BTW - My wife says, the man gave his paycheck to the woman to control how money is spent. Not sure why this is or how common it is, but I have my opinions on this. I have personally witnessed this as my wife pointed it out several times with younger couples in Moscow.
Good luck!
Your right Flit, I thin part of the problem is the starting out advice given on here is just so basic that it gives the impression all there is to it is avoid PPL sites, basic Scammer prevention advise and a few other nuggets and off you go. Sure, an odd few may strike it lucky but it really gives the Newbie a rather superficial view of whats needed and how things are in this game. Its pretty inadequate in setting a Newbie up with the sort of stuff he'll be dealing with or the scope of this venture. Whether that can be truly imparted over a forum or needs actual experience over there may vary, but I think there should be some highlighting of the point to Newbies in the original advice that theirs a lot of learning to be done here.
Like you say, it goes both ways and it seems a lot of FSW are as clueless about the west as we are of them. The girl I was with was totally bemused when I told her that WW often go dutch 50/50 when it comes to expenses - she had no clue that to many in the west to lump all the costs on the guy, to just have him working is for the majority of people now an impracticality. Try as I might to explain to her that (while I would not expect 50/50) some moderate input from her would be required if she wanted to clothes shop a lot. Now this was no doubt an alien world to her as Boethius has constatly been pressing on me - and to me yes while I accept Men are supposed to pay for most stuff in FSU for the woman to me her expectation that I should pay such a lot more than an FSM I could not understand - like she literally thought I had a limitless cash supply, lol.
So yes, I have finally gotten around to how you are thinking, that its not worth trying to figure the woman out as they seem to be so fixed in their view that it is pointless. Its just a case of accept it or find another one that fits better, i.e that has a problem that is not a complete obstruction to the cause.
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Imagine that you had a 17 year old daughter who was pretty good at ballet.
At a show one of the local party officials took a shine to her and told you to
send her to his house so he and his buddies could have sex with her for
several days. You said no way dewd so you were shipped 3000 miles
away to be worked and starved to death.
Your wife loses her job and apartment and goes out to beg for food but one
night she falls asleep and freezes to death, while your daughter is raped
repeatedly by the party officials then dumped in the forest and dies.
Are you trying to compare your rough up bringing with somebody who lived
in the above circumstances? Because if your upbringing are similar to the
above story, then you have a good argument.
If that was the case Bill or even marginally close I would have thought the girl I was with would be more open to any suggestion I had to move our relationship forward not be constantly obstructive by keeping to the same mantra.
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If that was the case Bill or even marginally close I would have thought the girl I was with
would be more open to any suggestion I had to move our relationship forward not be
constantly obstructive by keeping to the same mantra.
You are thinking that women think like you or I do, they don't.
I have no idea why you are trying to figure this out when it's not
going to work out. There are some who see themselves as a white
knight in shining armor who comes to save the damsel in distress and
solve all her problems.
I have a wonderful wife, I love her like crazy. She can't be somewhere
on time and she can't make sure her cell phone works even when it's
absolutely vital. I can't fix that, she won't let me and she doesn't want
me to help her fix it. Her brain is wired differently than mine.
My wife can be standing in the living room naked when we have to
be someplace that takes an hour to drive to and it can be 10 minutes
before our appointment starts and she still hasn't put it together yet that
we will be late.
I have a clock in my head that knows how long it takes me to get
somewhere and it starts a countdown and when it gets to zero I
start driving or I know I will be late. There are sirens blaring in
my head the second the timer hits zero.
I am married to Angel Eyes and I'm crazy about her, but I don't try
to fix her. I knew that this was something that I had to live with
before I married her.
The girl you refuse to dump isn't going to work out. Yet you are spending
time on trying to fix something that isn't going to solve the problem
and it's still not going to work out.
The longer you wait to move on the more difficult it will be and the
longer it will be before you meet the future Mrs Trench and start
the fun and excitement.
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My wife says, the man gave his paycheck to the woman to control how money is spent.
Silliest thing I ever heard of.
My wife works and gives me her paycheck.
I give her 50 cents a day when she goes to work so she can buy a snack or something . . . if she saves this 50 cents for several days.
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My Father did this also in the UK but was no alcoholic but then he gre up in the fifties and times were different then. In the UK back in the 80s & 90s with PM's Thatcher & Major (Conservatives) times were hard like you describe in Ukraine - no work, mass unemployment, high interest rates, house repossessions, and a government that were full of crooks. If you we;re to watch the film 'The Full Monty' the deprivation depicted in that of the UK at the time is pretty accurate. If there was work to be had it was at rock bottom wages and usually hard going at that. As Flit correctly highlights, the majority of people in US & UK are not real wealthy, even in UK there are plenty of people that live week by week trying to make the two ends meet with just a few quid left in their pocket at the end of the day. There are pot holes here too, in fact seems to have increased a fair bit over the past few years ;)
This is the traditional way in Ukraine, which predates alcoholism. My Grandmother controlled the money in my mother's family. My Grandfather did not drink. Alcoholism was relatively rare in Ukraine until the mid 1970's.
It doesn't matter if the majority of people in the US or UK are wealthy. It's about perception, often by women who have never travelled much beyond their town, who are not well read, and know little of the world beyond their town.
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If that was the case Bill or even marginally close I would have thought the girl I was with would be more open to any suggestion I had to move our relationship forward not be constantly obstructive by keeping to the same mantra.
Your right Flit, I thin part of the problem is the starting out advice given on here is just so basic that it gives the impression all there is to it is avoid PPL sites, basic Scammer prevention advise and a few other nuggets and off you go. Sure, an odd few may strike it lucky but it really gives the Newbie a rather superficial view of whats needed and how things are in this game. Its pretty inadequate in setting a Newbie up with the sort of stuff he'll be dealing with or the scope of this venture. Whether that can be truly imparted over a forum or needs actual experience over there may vary, but I think there should be some highlighting of the point to Newbies in the original advice that theirs a lot of learning to be done here.
Like you say, it goes both ways and it seems a lot of FSW are as clueless about the west as we are of them. The girl I was with was totally bemused when I told her that WW often go dutch 50/50 when it comes to expenses - she had no clue that to many in the west to lump all the costs on the guy, to just have him working is for the majority of people now an impracticality. Try as I might to explain to her that (while I would not expect 50/50) some moderate input from her would be required if she wanted to clothes shop a lot. Now this was no doubt an alien world to her as Boethius has constatly been pressing on me - and to me yes while I accept Men are supposed to pay for most stuff in FSU for the woman to me her expectation that I should pay such a lot more than an FSM I could not understand - like she literally thought I had a limitless cash supply, lol.
So yes, I have finally gotten around to how you are thinking, that its not worth trying to figure the woman out as they seem to be so fixed in their view that it is pointless. Its just a case of accept it or find another one that fits better, i.e that has a problem that is not a complete obstruction to the cause.
It doesn't go both ways. You are seeking an FSUW because you don't want a feminist WW. That means you get to support her, and you get to pay when you go out.
As for this girl wanting the UK or nothing, look at it from her perspective. Russian newspapers are full of stories of FSUW who went to live with a man in a third country. She arrives, things are great for three months, or six. Then, she is told there is no money. She has to go out and sell herself. Or, he is tired of her and throws her out. She is in a third country, can't speak the language, and has no money and no means of getting home. This is not an unusual story. It's not as bad as in the '90's, when girls often disappeared off the face of the earth, but it is still so common that it's reported in the papers. The Russian government is now helping women in this predicament, as is the Belarussian government, because these women often end up at their embassies or consulates, looking for a way back home. No word on Ukraine, at least, not that I've read. For every decent man an FSUW is going to meet, she is going to run into 2 creeps. So, it's not stubborness on her part. It's self protection.
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Alcoholism was relatively rare in Ukraine until the mid 1970's.
I found that hard to believe. It was a pretty wide held belief way back when that Communist workers didn't care to work very hard and drank a lot.
Chart in link below shows Ukrainian drink was dropping in the 80's and 90's after coming out of the 70's. Went back up and now Ukraine is between the top 5 to 10 for drinking in the world. One reason drinking dropped heavily in the mid 80's was people were paying 40% of the of all the taxes they pay towards alcohol purchases.
http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/publications/global_alcohol_report/profiles/ukr.pdf
Link below says between 1940 and 1980 the USSR experienced the highest increase rate of alcohol consumption with a 600% increase while the population only increased by 25%. By 1980, the average Soviet family was spending 25-50% of it's monthly food budget on alcohol. I don't believe alcoholism in Ukraine was rare in the 70's.
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/002087289203500406?journalCode=iswb
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For every decent man an FSUW is going to meet, she is going to run into 2 creeps. So, it's not stubborness on her part. It's self protection.
That is a very conservative estimate. Online --the % of decent guys is a very low % . In real life -- the general scorn of western men is increased by the % of creeps who do go there in real life .
I have seen for myself,heard many stories ( & still do) on abnormal behaviour, add in some strange ideas and unrealistic expectations that equals the abnormal and it gives you some idea of the difficulties a girl can face.
The forum sees a procession of guys displaying all sorts of paranoia -- but little is said about what is abnormal behaviour by "western" guys.
I commented in the past that this type of search is like looking for a needle in a haystack -- but first you have to find the haystack ! It is the same problem for fsuw.
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The forum sees a procession of guys displaying all sorts of paranoia
A lot of those guys are on their best behavior!
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That is a very conservative estimate. Online --the % of decent guys is a very low % . In real life -- the general scorn of western men is increased by the % of creeps who do go there in real life .
I have seen for myself,heard many stories ( & still do) on abnormal behaviour, add in some strange ideas and unrealistic expectations that equals the abnormal and it gives you some idea of the difficulties a girl can face.
The forum sees a procession of guys displaying all sorts of paranoia -- but little is said about what is abnormal behaviour by "western" guys.
I commented in the past that this type of search is like looking for a needle in a haystack -- but first you have to find the haystack ! It is the same problem for fsuw.
Yes, it could be a very conservative estimate. We just can't know. Plus, I excluded keyboard romeos.
As for alcoholism, it started in Russia in the 1960's. But in Ukraine, to know an alcoholic in the late 1960's, or a family where a man drank was exceedingly rare. My husband tells me there was one family within a 2 km radius of his central Kyiv apartment in the late 1960's. He remembers it was a scandal among all the neighbours, who spoke about it. He first saw rampant alcoholism in Leningrad, where men were lined up before the stores even opened, cursing the store workers, and they drank brands no one in Ukraine would touch. These scenes did not exist in Ukraine, at all, at the time. He remembers very well when alcohol consumption was glamorized, and when it began in Ukraine, which was the mid 1970's.
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I have a wonderful wife, I love her like crazy. She can't be somewhere
on time and she can't make sure her cell phone works even when it's
absolutely vital. I can't fix that, she won't let me and she doesn't want
me to help her fix it. Her brain is wired differently than mine.
My wife can be standing in the living room naked when we have to
be someplace that takes an hour to drive to and it can be 10 minutes
before our appointment starts and she still hasn't put it together yet that
we will be late.
I have a clock in my head that knows how long it takes me to get
somewhere and it starts a countdown and when it gets to zero I
start driving or I know I will be late. There are sirens blaring in
my head the second the timer hits zero.
I am married to Angel Eyes and I'm crazy about her, but I don't try
to fix her. I knew that this was something that I had to live with
before I married her.
Bill your wife must be related to mine by that description above here lol
totally correct about the stop trying to ''FIX '' her mantra
SX
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My wife walks around the house naked too. Why would you guys want to fix that? As far as being late, she's not bad but she's not perfect. I told her it's best to be on time wherever she goes. Don't make a habit of always being late in life.
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My wife walks around the house naked too.
That is illegal in 17 states and immoral in 11 states.
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My Father did this also in the UK but was no alcoholic but then he gre up in the fifties and times were different then. In the UK back in the 80s & 90s with PM's Thatcher & Major (Conservatives) times were hard like you describe in Ukraine - no work, mass unemployment, high interest rates, house repossessions, and a government that were full of crooks. If you we;re to watch the film 'The Full Monty' the deprivation depicted in that of the UK at the time is pretty accurate. If there was work to be had it was at rock bottom wages and usually hard going at that. As Flit correctly highlights, the majority of people in US & UK are not real wealthy, even in UK there are plenty of people that live week by week trying to make the two ends meet with just a few quid left in their pocket at the end of the day. There are pot holes here too, in fact seems to have increased a fair bit over the past few years ;)
Trench describes the times when I bought my first house - despite high interest rates and was probably the most well-off ..
I was no 'crook' - Major asked us to be prudent and save for the future - I opened my first private pension ... the VERY first act of the Labour govt that replaced the complacent Tories -? ... TAX our savings / pensions - THAT really WAS robbery
Isn't it 'funny' how trench just keeps on proving he lives in a parallel uninverse ?
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That is illegal in 17 states and immoral in 11 states.
And absolutely applauded in the other 32! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
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And absolutely applauded in the other 32! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
I think you missed a state, or else we lost 1 I'm not aware of.
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And absolutely applauded in the other 32! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
That's the spirit!!!
Isn't it 'funny' how trench just keeps on proving he lives in a parallel uninverse ?
Hey, the subject changed to naked wives walking around the house and you're talking about Trench. Are you in the club of men with sexy wives or not?
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Good point, well Wade, BillyB
Long pause to next sentence as I think of what I am going to miss, soon...
Going to UK
...
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It doesn't go both ways. You are seeking an FSUW because you don't want a feminist WW. That means you get to support her, and you get to pay when you go out.
As for this girl wanting the UK or nothing, look at it from her perspective. Russian newspapers are full of stories of FSUW who went to live with a man in a third country. She arrives, things are great for three months, or six. Then, she is told there is no money. She has to go out and sell herself. Or, he is tired of her and throws her out. She is in a third country, can't speak the language, and has no money and no means of getting home. This is not an unusual story. It's not as bad as in the '90's, when girls often disappeared off the face of the earth, but it is still so common that it's reported in the papers. The Russian government is now helping women in this predicament, as is the Belarussian government, because these women often end up at their embassies or consulates, looking for a way back home. No word on Ukraine, at least, not that I've read. For every decent man an FSUW is going to meet, she is going to run into 2 creeps. So, it's not stubborness on her part. It's self protection.
She at one point suggested she would be willing to accept somewhere else in EU for us to meet up. I suggested Copenhagen as its a nice place and her father works in Poland which is not a million miles away. Now lets face it this girl met me in Cyprus and although I gave her some money (in order so that she would get through Border control if questioned - she was not & got through without bother) but in any case it was an island stuck right out in the sea. The only comfort for her was that there were many Russian speakers there and she could talk some English. Still though she went to an island you can't swim or walk back from, the UK is also an island so harder to get off. Apparently she has a friend that lives here and this makes me wonder if she has a gameplan for specifically wanting to go to UK. Anyway she reneged on the idea of another place in EU when it became evident I was willing to accept this as an alternative/compromise.
As to her experience in growing up in Ukraine and what she has been through I know nothing. That is why I want to go there to get to know her better. It is also what I am now looking for in a lady to get to really know her daily/actual life (and I don't mean going to get the groceries ;) ) So I know what she is about and not just some joe who she has a superficial even if intimate relationship with. I just see having the same talk about the everyday stuff on dating sites - her family, interests, where she lives, work she does, etc doesn't really help to connect in a meaningful way with a girl it just gives you background info but doesn't really make you a part of her world. That is where I see a lot of the problems with being with a girl where I don't know about her actual life it creates a situation where she does not see me as part of her actual life just a guy on the outside she hangs around with and is expedient for this or that whatever she is after.
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Trench describes the times when I bought my first house - despite high interest rates and was probably the most well-off ..
I was no 'crook' - Major asked us to be prudent and save for the future - I opened my first private pension ... the VERY first act of the Labour govt that replaced the complacent Tories -? ... TAX our savings / pensions - THAT really WAS robbery
Isn't it 'funny' how trench just keeps on proving he lives in a parallel uninverse ?
Moby it was Labour that introduced the tax free ISA's. Other than that I'm pretty sure savings were always subject to tax unless you were a student, etc. I don't see where you get the Labour taxed our savings from, to me it looks like political mud slinging for the sake of it.
Private pensions I would never, ever touch in a million years, they have consistently been proven to be a bad choice repeatedly over a long time. All about what you pay in and not about what you get out. Schemes that run into trouble, deliver a lot less than expected, stock market plunges at times of maturity, poor annuity payouts compared to invested sums, etc. I would stick with the state pension anyway, its a way better payout, its always been reliable and if private pension schemes were abolished and instead that money put into state pension funding it would be better funded. Plus you don't have to hear/understand all the tiresome waffle about how all these numerous private pensions subscribe to in your lifetime work.
No I did not say you were a crook but many in Major's government were, remember all the sleeze present, cash for questions, etc. Major was just a dull, boring, drip of a guy that should have been outed a lot sooner and made the recession worse by taking no action to tackle it. He just never had any decent leadership qualities. I was not a fan of Blair or Labour particularly either but they were at least more competent than the Tories at that time of running the economy.
Today I am just on the fence with all the political parties, I would never vote Tory out of conscience but I think they are doing a better job of running the country than back in the 80s & 90s though I still don't favour some of their policies. Labour, well Corbyn is quite a decent leader and nice guy but I find myself only half agreeing with only some of their policies and not in favour of others so on the fence there. That what I make of it anyway.
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She at one point suggested ..
Is Trench STILL discussing his 'partner' ? ....
-
[quote author=Trenchcoat
As to her experience in growing up in Ukraine and what she has been through I know nothing. That is why I want to go there to get to know her better. It is also what I am now looking for in a lady to get to really know her daily/actual life (and I don't mean going to get the groceries ;) ) So I know what she is about and not just some joe who she has a superficial even if intimate relationship with. I just see having the same talk about the everyday stuff on dating sites - her family, interests, where she lives, work she does, etc doesn't really help to connect in a meaningful way with a girl it just gives you background info but doesn't really make you a part of her world. That is where I see a lot of the problems with being with a girl where I don't know about her actual life it creates a situation where she does not see me as part of her actual life just a guy on the outside she hangs around with and is expedient for this or that whatever she is after.
[/quote]
Hello Trench,
You know from my past reply that I'm a novice at this, so this more me sharing my experience than giving advice.
While I agree there is no better way to get to know a woman, like experiencing her life by her side. To date for me that hasn't been possible and in my experience, I disagree on a few points. I think it makes sense to do your ground work online. If you understand a little about women's minds you can build an incredible connection and attraction, so strong that you are in her thoughts, every waking hour..
A good connection before you meet, might be a more successful approach for yiu. If she is truly into you, she will share her inner most desires with you and it can start with a simple conversation about grocery shopping... 30 minutes ago we were discussing my mothers preserved fruit and comparing recipes. Right now that everyday conversation has morphed in to her sharing how she would like to be seduced.
It's the interest in her every day life that builds attraction ... Today has probably been the least we have talked for weeks and it has been really food related. We spent time discussing cornflakes, roast lamb, weather, work, Irish coffee, strawberries, strawberry brandy, preserved apricots, apricot pies, beef steak and finally how to seduce her with strawberrys, champaign and a bubble bath for two.
This is what a great connection looks like .... Since Saturday, this is only a small selection of the topics we have discussed.... The difficulties of being intimate when you have children, issues we had with our ex's, little black dresses, romantic dinners on tropical islands, pre-paid phone plans, different terminologies between languages, Russian men's attitudes, bondage dungeons and the toys you might find inside them, jellied meat, some particularly traumatic experiences in our past, parenting attitudes, Russian champaign, Russian agriculture, cats, teenage daughters and their boyfriends, night clubs v pubs, favourite ingredients in chicken salads, Ural mountains, vasectomies, c sections, terrorism, American sanctions, airports in Moscow, FSU courtship in the 90's, sex before marriage, free love in the 60's, Metallica, Russian marriage traditions, Racing cars, engineering, Russian movies, flavours of ice cream, family history, etc....
We have estimated we have chatted for at least 1500 hours and still find something new about each other everyday.... Food for thought : )
.... and on the subject of food and food related fantasies, I have better places to be....see you later
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Is Trench STILL discussing his 'partner' ? ....
You're surprised?
-
Hello Trench,
You know from my past reply that I'm a novice at this, so this more me sharing my experience than giving advice.
While I agree there is no better way to get to know a woman, like experiencing her life by her side. To date for me that hasn't been possible and in my experience, I disagree on a few points. I think it makes sense to do your ground work online. If you understand a little about women's minds you can build an incredible connection and attraction, so strong that you are in her thoughts, every waking hour..
A good connection before you meet, might be a more successful approach for yiu. If she is truly into you, she will share her inner most desires with you and it can start with a simple conversation about grocery shopping... 30 minutes ago we were discussing my mothers preserved fruit and comparing recipes. Right now that everyday conversation has morphed in to her sharing how she would like to be seduced.
It's the interest in her every day life that builds attraction ... Today has probably been the least we have talked for weeks and it has been really food related. We spent time discussing cornflakes, roast lamb, weather, work, Irish coffee, strawberries, strawberry brandy, preserved apricots, apricot pies, beef steak and finally how to seduce her with strawberrys, champaign and a bubble bath for two.
This is what a great connection looks like .... Since Saturday, this is only a small selection of the topics we have discussed.... The difficulties of being intimate when you have children, issues we had with our ex's, little black dresses, romantic dinners on tropical islands, pre-paid phone plans, different terminologies between languages, Russian men's attitudes, bondage dungeons and the toys you might find inside them, jellied meat, some particularly traumatic experiences in our past, parenting attitudes, Russian champaign, Russian agriculture, cats, teenage daughters and their boyfriends, night clubs v pubs, favourite ingredients in chicken salads, Ural mountains, vasectomies, c sections, terrorism, American sanctions, airports in Moscow, FSU courtship in the 90's, sex before marriage, free love in the 60's, Metallica, Russian marriage traditions, Racing cars, engineering, Russian movies, flavours of ice cream, family history, etc....
We have estimated we have chatted for at least 1500 hours and still find something new about each other everyday.... Food for thought : )
.... and on the subject of food and food related fantasies, I have better places to be....see you later
She wouldn't by any chance be a chubby chick ;D
I think you are almost there, I think nearly every girl will have a specific thing that is close to her heart and the quicker that can be clued into the better. The rest you mention is just background chatter, nice to know and helpful that she's opened up to a point where her life is more open to you but not really the specific thing close to her heart. That specific thing may well be food, for another girl it may be fashion or music, gardening, etc it may even not be a formal topic area but an ambition of hers or way she sees the world, etc is what I'm thinking. With the girl I was with I never really got what here specific thing was, there was a few hobbies not that I was introduced to any of them (and I don't mean shopping) and that was it. Even though she seemed into fashion she seemed to have no deep desire to understand it, to study it or the fashion world. She seemed to be vacant on any real depth, I mean we talked and got on fine. I think her real specific thing was wanting to move/be in UK (she had after all contacted me/my profile first) and although supposed previous guy was from elsewhere in EU I think it was the UK she really had a longing to be. I should have tried to talk more on this subject and she may or may not have opened up to me depending on where she saw me in the process - if I was just to be a mule. I know she apparently had a friend who lived in the UK. When I asked her if she would miss her friends & family she was dismissive that that is just a necessary part of being there. This was probably not a good sign that she was so unconcerned about being away from friends/family.
Anyway, the other part of it is that I should have been more forward with my ambition in life and showed her more of my world. Like someone suggested on here once take her on a tour (through skype) of your house/where you live - so long as its not to show how well off you are I think it could give her a real insight. Other than that just talk about it and your plans for the future at an early stage and see if she connects in anyway on this, not necessarily agreeing but gets deeply involved in what it entails etc. so she is more into your world is all I can think. This is what I intend to do with the next girl and see if she naturally takes an interest and in that way open up more to me and link our lives together psychologically rather than just physically. So yes getting a psychological attachment is all important.
Guys I think this is worth discussing as not only I can learn from it and discover how to go about it better but other forum members can have a better understanding too. Its a whole different culture and just jumping on a plane is not always all there is too it for the newbie who just thinks as I did that you just meet up and voila.
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She wouldn't by any chance be a chubby chick ;D
I think you are almost there, I think nearly every girl will have a specific thing that is close to her heart and the quicker that can be clued into the better. The rest you mention is just background chatter, nice to know and helpful that she's opened up to a point where her life is more open to you but not really the specific thing close to her heart. That specific thing may well be food, for another girl it may be fashion or music, gardening, etc it may even not be a formal topic area but an ambition of hers or way she sees the world, etc is what I'm thinking. With the girl I was with I never really got what here specific thing was, there was a few hobbies not that I was introduced to any of them (and I don't mean shopping) and that was it. Even though she seemed into fashion she seemed to have no deep desire to understand it, to study it or the fashion world. She seemed to be vacant on any real depth, I mean we talked and got on fine. I think her real specific thing was wanting to move/be in UK (she had after all contacted me/my profile first) and although supposed previous guy was from elsewhere in EU I think it was the UK she really had a longing to be. I should have tried to talk more on this subject and she may or may not have opened up to me depending on where she saw me in the process - if I was just to be a mule. I know she apparently had a friend who lived in the UK. When I asked her if she would miss her friends & family she was dismissive that that is just a necessary part of being there. This was probably not a good sign that she was so unconcerned about being away from friends/family.
Anyway, the other part of it is that I should have been more forward with my ambition in life and showed her more of my world. Like someone suggested on here once take her on a tour (through skype) of your house/where you live - so long as its not to show how well off you are I think it could give her a real insight. Other than that just talk about it and your plans for the future at an early stage and see if she connects in anyway on this, not necessarily agreeing but gets deeply involved in what it entails etc. so she is more into your world is all I can think. This is what I intend to do with the next girl and see if she naturally takes an interest and in that way open up more to me and link our lives together psychologically rather than just physically. So yes getting a psychological attachment is all important.
Guys I think this is worth discussing as not only I can learn from it and discover how to go about it better but other forum members can have a better understanding too. Its a whole different culture and just jumping on a plane is not always all there is too it for the newbie who just thinks as I did that you just meet up and voila.
You know - I think most, of not all of this is quite obvious to any other forum member and/or visitor with a thinking mind, it's not rocket science mate..
Your inability to read and understand women, your apparent lack of interest in their thoughts, culture and daily life, (constantly blaming them not "introducing you" to their life) is simply something I would expect from a horny sex-tourist in his early 20:s rather then a middle age man.
Few people comes across as ignorant about the world around you I have to admit, like everything we tell you about FSU culture is a "AHA" experience to you.
That is one of your biggest issues, not the women, they are quite straight forward if you know how to speak to a woman. again, it aint rocket science... it's dating..
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I think you missed a state, or else we lost 1 I'm not aware of.
11 + 17 = 28
50 - 28 = 22
Kiwi said 32, but you gotta realize the poor boy is upside down in
NZ and who knows what that can do to his counting and NZ has
16 regions, which who would know unless they looked it up online.
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That is why I want to go there to get to know her better. It is also what I am now looking for in a lady to get to really know her daily/actual life (and I don't mean going to get the groceries ;) ) So I know what she is about and not just some Joe who she has a superficial even if intimate relationship with. I just see having the same talk about the everyday stuff on dating sites - her family, interests, where she lives, work she does, etc doesn't really help to connect in a meaningful way with a girl it just gives you background info but doesn't really make you a part of her world. That is where I see a lot of the problems with being with a girl where I don't know about her actual life it creates a situation where she does not see me as part of her actual life just a guy on the outside she hangs around with and is expedient for this or that whatever she is after.
Over the years, this discussion group has consistently given the advice:
1) Be leery of a gal who is overly unhappy with where she is currently living.
2) Be leery of a gal who did/does not have a good relationship with her parents.
I readily understood and followed advice 1; but didn't give much currency to advice 2.
But as my experience with the gals increased, I accumulated evidence that advice 2 had great validity.
So this is something all searching guys should be investigating with their contact gals.
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11 + 17 = 28
50 - 28 = 22
Kiwi said 32, but you gotta realize the poor boy is upside down in
NZ and who knows what that can do to his counting and NZ has
16 regions, which who would know unless they looked it up online.
Ah, I thought he was only counting the 17 where it is illegal, 17+32=49. Maybe we should send him a map or a book or something to help him get up to speed. ;)
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Over the years, this discussion group has consistently given the advice:
1) Be leery of a gal who is overly unhappy with where she is currently living.
2) Be leery of a gal who did/does not have a good relationship with her parents.
I readily understood and followed advice 1; but didn't give much currency to advice 2.
But as my experience with the gals increased, I accumulated evidence that advice 2 had great validity.
So this is something all searching guys should be investigating with their contact gals.
Agree ML, if she's more intent on moving to another country then she's likely to go with any man and do anything to do it.
If she does not care about her existing family then she could quite likely harbour an uncaring attitude to most people, especially guys she may not be that into or using to get into another country.
Girl I was with seem quite close to her mother & nephew during messaging but I'm think in reality I wonder if she is so bothered. Her statement to me that not seeing them is all part of living abroad rang alarm bells - yes she apparently wants her own family but I just wonder if UK citizenship is higher up on her priorities or getting over here & meeting a really rich guy.
That or she knows if she got a job here she could earn in a day or two what it takes her to earn in a month in Ukraine and that's just doing the same basic wage job.
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Ah, I thought he was only counting the 17 where it is illegal, 17+32=49. Maybe we should send him a map or a book or something to help him get up to speed. ;)
LOL
(http://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/011/693/605/3c7ff9c3b9d791f2d5e0df940b485f25_original.jpg?crop=faces&w=1552&h=873&fit=crop&v=1463686885&auto=format&q=92&s=9c56aaf1c820f231d0755661768ee2fa)
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I think you missed a state, or else we lost 1 I'm not aware of.
Actually, no - I managed to add 10! ;D 17+11+32=60.
Oh, well, that just adds grist to the Russian mill when they claim that there are many countries which are simply undeclared parts of the USA. :ROFL:
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Over the years, this discussion group has consistently given the advice:
1) Be leery of a gal who is overly unhappy with where she is currently living.
2) Be leery of a gal who did/does not have a good relationship with her parents.
I readily understood and followed advice 1; but didn't give much currency to advice 2.
But as my experience with the gals increased, I accumulated evidence that advice 2 had great validity.
So this is something all searching guys should be investigating with their contact gals.
I don't think either of those are relevant, particularly not in Ukraine. You would have to know what the parents were like.
My son had a classmate whose mother dumped her kids and moved to Florida. I knew a Ukrainian woman whose former DIL used to lock her kids in a closet with dried bread for a week at a time to party. My son's classmate has grown up to be a good, nice, young man, though not the sharpest blade in the drawer.
Focus on the person, not the irrelevancies around them.
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ML's comment has got me thinking. My thought is quite possibly if I went and saw her family they might not have kind words to say of her. They might tell me exactly what she is up to if she is up to something. I know she doesn't get on with her sister in law and she might let onto me her real intent if there is one. I just get the impression there is some real reason whether this or something else that make it a real no go when it comes to issue of me visiting.
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I am literally laughing out loud at the naivete of Trench's post. Even if she were trying to take advantage of you, no Ukrainian would tell you that. Taking advantage of a foreigner is not considered something negative there.
Trench, you have no reasonable thought except allegations, suspicion, paranoia. This is ingrained in you, and leads me to believe you will not be successful in this endeavour.
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I am literally laughing out loud at the naivete of Trench's post. Even if she were trying to take advantage of you, no Ukrainian would tell you that. Taking advantage of a foreigner is not considered something negative there.
Trench, you have no reasonable thought except allegations, suspicion, paranoia. This is ingrained in you, and leads me to believe you will not be successful in this endeavour.
No I'm sure you are right taking advantage of a foriegner is not see as negative there probably seen as a positive. However it her sister in law hates her guts as it appears she might then she might be eager to go beyond the call of duty and let on. The rest of her actual family I am guessing would keep out if it. That or a local may step in for whatever reason who knows.
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Or she might lie in an attempt to ruin the girl's happiness.
No local is going to step forward for any reason than their own self interest. To them, you're a white crow.
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Or she might lie in an attempt to ruin the girl's happiness.
No local is going to step forward for any reason than their own self interest. To them, you're a white crow.
So what would you have done in my position if she was saying she visits me first then I visit her? Considering whether she might get a visa is uncertain?
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If I could have arranged a visit to my city for my husband before we married, I would have done that in a heartbeat. I also would have researched everything to increase my chances of success in receiving that visa.
At the time I arranged a visa for my MIL, the visa section of the embassy was run by Ukrainians, who were taking kickbacks to process visas. My husband didn't believe his mother would get a visa, and I knew she would. But, when she went, the Ukrainian workers wouldn't process her visa as they wanted her to pay a $100 kickback. So, I phoned the embassy. I got a Ukrainian frontline worker, who promptly hung up on me when I asked to speak to the Canadian in charge of visas. So, I called back. And then I called my MP. The visa was issued with no kickback.
It wasn't until a few years later that there was a scandal on kickbacks at several Canadian embassies, resulting in that work no longer being handled by locals.
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I pray with every bone in my body that you do not scam or trick a Slavic woman into marrying you. You are, hands down, the most ignorant, stupid, non-perceptive human being I have ever encountered. No Slavic woman deserves the lifelong punishment, the never ending nightmare of being "Mrs. Trenchcoat". I truly wish I had the ability go on antidate, post your real name, your real pics, your screen name on RWD, and tell the women there "I will not say anything positive or negative about this guy Trenchcoat. I do not need to say anything negative about Trenchcoat. He opens his mouth and instantly you see how undesirable he is as a Man for marriage. For you women on antidate, do not email me directly as I will not say anything positive or negative about Trenchcoat. I will only provide you women the links to every one of his posts on a Russian Woman Internet Discussion Board - Russianwomendiscussion.com Click on the links, ladies, and read all about Trenchcoat for yourself - then YOU decide, ladies, if he is a Man worthy of your affections".
Out of extreme trepidation for all of the young unmarried women in Ukraine, I wish I knew your first and last name Trenchcoat, and had your pictures, because I would post your information at antidate for all the women to see - and all the women would read every one of your posts here on RWD, and they could decide for themselves and form their own opinions of you on whether to pursue you or not.
Every Ukrainian woman deserves to be warned about you, Trenchcoat. At least give these young, single Ukrainian girls a fighting chance to marry a decent, intelligent Western Man with good morals who actually will give 100% effort to be a Fantastic Husband and Father.
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I am literally laughing out loud at the naivete of Trench's post. Even if she were trying to take advantage of you, no Ukrainian would tell you that. Taking advantage of a foreigner is not considered something negative there.
Trench, you have no reasonable thought except allegations, suspicion, paranoia. This is ingrained in you, and leads me to believe you will not be successful in this endeavour.
Amen! :clapping:
The stupid vibe is in force on this thread. :cluebat:
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I pray with every bone in my body that you do not scam or trick a Slavic woman into marrying you. You are, hands down, the most ignorant, stupid, non-perceptive human being
Every Ukrainian woman deserves to be warned about you, Trenchcoat.
:ROFL: :applause:
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Amen! :clapping:
The stupid vibe is in force on this thread. :cluebat:
I don't post this to mock or denigrate Trench. I think he has to work out his trust issues.
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trenchcoat Apparently she has a friend that lives here and this makes me wonder if she has a gameplan for specifically wanting to go to UK. Anyway she reneged on the idea of another place in EU when it became evident I was willing to accept this as an alternative/compromise.
you are a very suspicious man mr trench , who is always keeping his guard up
of course she has a plan for wanting to go to the uk ?? are you stupid ??
just reverse the scenario for a sec here
if you as a man where sleeping with a woman from iceland , and all seemed ok with her , she had visited you and all was good ,you had been intimate , she then offered for you to come & live with her and get married in iceland DONT YOU THINK YOU MIGHT WANT TO VISIT ICELAND FIRST ?? would that not be a priority for you possibly ?/ can you at least understand that for some people it might be ???
especially when you add in that you wont have a job , salary , home of your own , all your security is going to be provided by her at the start ?? even your staying in that country is dependant on her to some degree could you do that trench ?? can you not understand why that might be important to her , before she invites you into her world ??family and home etc
why does that flaunt scam for you automatically ??
you have been advised before you dont seem to have what is needed for this caper , which imo the no 1 thing you need is a good sense of who you are and an open mind to accept all sorts of scenarios and be capable of weighing up for yourself what is ok and what is not
your so busy looking suspiciously into every dark corner , idea , act & conversation , you cant see the light here ,
christ now your posting her family you have never met might be good to dump all her dirt to you ????
trench you need to step back , go and sort out all the old hurtfull stuff your holding onto and then rethink this adventure
you are not ready to handle the long term responsibilities that come with bringing a wife into your life and country imo until you sort out some of this other stuff mate , you are carrying your past with you all the time
that mr trench is a heavy burden that is going to drown you and any relationship you get into
mate its time to let it go and get yourself sorted first as a priority imo
its ok to not believe all you see or hear , but you have it to a max level that is crippling you
SX