Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Trip Reports => Topic started by: Patagonie on May 01, 2011, 02:45:06 PM

Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 01, 2011, 02:45:06 PM
Operation White Panther



Previsionnal budget : 3700 €

Stage 5/5
17 days 2 days off (travel) 15 days available (3 week ends)
Destination : Dnepropetrovsk
Backup : Kharkov

Type : VMWAAWA (visit many and as possible write any)
Today : D-19
return efficiency expected on agency 1 : 40% (21 asked, great if 9 will show)
On agency 2 : 30 % (10 will be asked if necessary, great if 3 will show)
Free sites : EM one answer waited, Others : good (nine contacted 48 hours ago, one phone number returned from a probably 8.7, waiting the others) : Good return of my ad in Lavaplace, in 48 hours : 15 virtual kisses (sorry 16 now 8), 2 admirers.
Others backups : in Kharkov we will see. A girl of Lugansk had contacted me, interesting, but normally out of my range (ask her to come in Dnep and of course pay all her expenses, we will see).

This is a part of my ad i like :
Я мечтаю о тебе с первого дня нашей встречи во Франции: я возьму тебя за руку и мы будем путешествовать вместе по горам. Потом мы увидим восход солнца. Я приглашу тебя на обед сразу над озером с разноцветными витражами и красивым видом на местность. После мы возьмем каное, чтобы добраться до середины озера. Мы будем вместе плавать и если ты будешь хорошо себя вести, я намажу твои плечи солнцезащитным кремом (только если ты окажешься действительно очень милой).Перед ужином я заберу тебя, прежде, чем мы пойдем
в маленький замок в горах около леса. Мы пойдем в теплый ресторанчик, чтобы отведать традиционной французской еды и расслабимся около камина и нескольких кошек, которые будут ходить вокруг тебя и мурлыкать, если ты почешешь их. Если ты действительно романтик, мы могли бы погулять в лесу за замком, послушать шепот ветра между деревьями, но я должен лучше тебя узнать, чтобы предложить это, потому что там темно и я не знаю, что может случиться с тобой, а в друг ты опасная женщина. Ты можешь попытаться поцеловать меня в ушко, самую чувствительную зону. Это то, что произойдет в первый день. О втором спроси меня.

Target : 30-36
Extended target : 28-41

Tickets : bought
Agency 1 : booked
First week : flat and taxi booked

Energy 70 %
Self confidence 89 %
Seduction training 80 %
Sport training : 50 %

If possible avoid what happened in stage 4 :
my city --> Frankfurt, Frankfurt--> Munich. Munich --> Kiev. Kiev--> Kharkov. GF1 Kharkov --> Lviv. Lviv --> Poland. Poland--> Bohemia. Bohemia--> Italia. Florencia--> Roma. Roma--> Kiev. Kiev--> Kharkov. GF2. Kharkov--> Kiev. Kiev--> Frankfurt. Frankfurt--> my city.

IT materials :
laptop computer
1 iphone 3
1 iphone 4
2 USB keys

Clothes :
later



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on May 01, 2011, 03:05:38 PM
Now you just need to pack some heat and you're good to go  :D

On a more serious note, I hope you will do well and I see a fat travel report coming in the near future. Right?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 01, 2011, 03:13:50 PM
Hello Natural.
Yes i will try to do my best to give back a lot of informations.
It's not very easy because the schedule will be for sure very busy and for the moment i don't know if i will have in the flat an internet connection (week one) wich is of course very convenient.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on May 01, 2011, 04:30:17 PM
Hi Patagonie,

Are you seriously up to publishing that ad that you wrote above in Russian in the hope that women might be interested in getting to know the author? Or do you have a different wording for introducing yourself to the women?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 01, 2011, 04:43:37 PM
Operation White Panther

If possible avoid what happened in stage 4 :
my city --> Frankfurt, Frankfurt--> Munich. Munich --> Kiev. Kiev--> Kharkov. GF1 Kharkov --> Lviv. Lviv --> Poland. Poland--> Bohemia. Bohemia--> Italia. Florencia--> Roma. Roma--> Kiev. Kiev--> Kharkov. GF2. Kharkov--> Kiev. Kiev--> Frankfurt. Frankfurt--> my city.


Wow, was all that so you could visit 2 gals in Kharkiv and they would know you came to see only them on a VO trip !!   :)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 01, 2011, 10:44:03 PM
Hi Patagonie,

Are you seriously up to publishing that ad that you wrote above in Russian ...

Lily, that was my thought too  :D

Patagonie, are you seriously...?

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 02, 2011, 12:38:31 AM
Hi Patagonie,

Are you seriously up to publishing that ad that you wrote above in Russian in the hope that women might be interested in getting to know the author? Or do you have a different wording for introducing yourself to the women?
Lily, as i said this is only a part of my ad. You don't find it romantical Lily ? :P
The goal of the ad is very clear : no penpal , no romance, no traval partner : only marriage.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 02, 2011, 02:38:55 AM
Wow, was all that so you could visit 2 gals in Kharkiv and they would know you came to see only them on a VO trip !!   :)
:) i think there is more simple if you want to visit two differents girls (VO) during the same vacation   :cluebat:
No you would have do the same as me :
You come, you meet several ladies, one likes you and you like her, you begin an affair. She proposes you to to come along with her in Italy. You think at this moment : i will be really foolish to stay here, if i want to know her. Just before leaving the town you meet a girl you like too by your interpreter. So you send to this girl a "last" SMS. "I feel you are really special i like you but someone i like too propose me to go to a tour with her. I'm a man and i make decision. Are you ok to be contacted if i come back. She answers "Yes, good travel".
So go to a tour : 24 hours of tren and after get into a bus full of ukrainian people at Lviv. You are the only guy who not speak russian  :wallbash: After one week GF1 gives you a  critical information that let you know this relation is over. You spend the last night in her bed, without sex because you don't want to let her thinking that you drop her only because your motivation is a dirty thing.
Returning to the previous ukrainian city. the interpreter says to you : you MUST meet others girls, even if you like my friend, and even she likes you. After few meetings I STOP it because i want to focus on GF2. So we have an affair, without sex if you want to know. Sex is not my priority. If i want i can have plenty in my country.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Aloe on May 02, 2011, 06:12:24 AM
Wow that ad stinks "i am not serious about this" and raises a red flag the size of a little planet. Very unpleasant aftertase. First of all, all the talking about kissing your little ear, the most sensitive part, is kinda revolting, coming from a man you do not know yet. Second of all, just the fact that you wrote it and a woman read it, and when we read something we actually involuntarily imagine it, i just feel a little bit virtually raped for having imaginatory to have kissed your little ear, your most sensitive zone, eww, where is the barf icon?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Aloe on May 02, 2011, 06:27:08 AM
This type of talking should be reserved to someone you are intimate with. Not everyone on the whole world wide web. And specifically because you talked this way to the entire internet, is why you come off extremely unserious dreamy type of person who is all talk and no action. People who are action do not talk about these things to the entire world. Only to their special someone.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on May 02, 2011, 06:30:12 AM
Lily, as i said this is only a part of my ad. You don't find it romantical Lily ? :P
The goal of the ad is very clear : no penpal , no romance, no traval partner : only marriage.

Exactly, your goal is marriage. You want the woman to fall in love for you therefore.

Yes I see this is romantical, but personally I don't think that women consider being romantical the primary criterion in chosing a partner. In case this is only a part - then it seems to be allright. By the way, is your ad that long and wordy? some women may not wish to read it.

In this part of your ad, you tell her what nice things you would do to her. But Patagonie, women don't chose by the criteria what the man will do them. They chose by the criterion who is the man. See the difference? Not WHAT is he doing to her, but WHO is he actually. This is what their female instincts tell them.

This is about chosing instinctively, and rationally. Their reasons may tell them something like, okay, this man is uninteresting, unattractive, etc., but he treats me so well and I go marry him. Their instincts may tell them, 'This man is interesting and attractive, okay I could probably compromise on something but I go with him because I dammit in love with him.Perhaps I could cope with his shortcomings.'
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 02, 2011, 06:31:40 AM
Aloe
It is possible that this part of the ad is not exactly what i wanna say exactly.
I'm explaining why :
I translated myself in english (wich is not my native language as you can guess it) AND someone (i don't want to give some details but it's perhaps a not professionnal translator) else translated it in russian.

For my whole introduction (8 pages) as i used directly a professionnal translator (and a good one) , giving her the document in my native language she translated in russian. I know and i'm sure that translation is perfect, and most girls, who having read it, had really liked it.

Now you alert me because perhaps this one is not exactly what i mean, from my native language.

So if someone, fluent in russian, can translate in english what i've put in the "ad", so i can check and be sure of what i want to mean, please can someone do this job ? I will be thankful.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 02, 2011, 06:53:51 AM
I've asked, if they have some free time, to check the whole ad (and my whole introduction, the professional one) to Lily and Aloe. I have no doubt those two experimented woman will understand where is the problem (or the misunderstanding).
Thank.
Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 03, 2011, 06:18:59 AM
D-17
Downloaded 21 profiles of agency 1
Downloaded 11 profiles of agency 2
All in the mobile, complete backup on the laptop.

Shooted photos of the map ot the city and all informations about the two agencies i will use, and put into the mobile.

First problem :
The agency 1 let me to retrieve adress of all the girls i want.
Yes : i have X geographicals adresses and what ?  :cluebat:
So i asked the mail adresses of those ladies. Answer of the agency (BS/BS) :
"Ladies usually don't publish their e-mail addresses for different reasons (most of them don't know English, some don't have internet access, so they prefer to get letters translated by the agency)."  :ROFL:
Ok i let them to do the job.
What can i do with geographicals adresses ??? It needed 3 or 4 weeks for a letter to be dropped in ladies' letterbox, and with no guarantee at all.
I would have sent sooner if i had know, photos and the whole introduction, but now it's too late.  :-\
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: TwoBitBandit on May 03, 2011, 10:23:44 AM
Patagonie, I have to agree with the ladies on this one... the content of that portion of your profile came off as a little weird to me too...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 03, 2011, 11:02:02 AM
Thank you,
In fact, i press this point, it's the END of my ad, with in first the traditionnal measuring, who i am, what i like ta da ta da ta...
Of course i don't want to publish all these informations.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Ranetka on May 03, 2011, 11:05:11 AM
Patagonie,

I agree with all the ladies.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on May 03, 2011, 02:52:50 PM
If I understand your ad correctly, you write about the future, about your sexual fantasies.

When I want to look romantic, I write about the present.
Like: "When I pluck the melody of The Umbrellas of Cherbourg on my guitar, I see the image of two lovers strolling along the rainy French streets, hugging and kissing each other." Of course, when we skype, she asks to perform and I oblige.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 03, 2011, 04:47:06 PM
I would thank Aloe and Lily,  for their help. What they checked is :
there is a not appropriate translation in the ad and in my whole introduction.

I refere  them because i'm totally blind in russian, as i don't speak (but want to know, first lesson the 23th may ;)).

I'm not only disappointed, but more a little angry.
I've paid a high price to a "professional" translator in my country  for the whole introduction.  And it seems that five sentences are not understandable, there are grammaticals errors too.
About the ad and (i give to Aloe and Lily the full text of the ad) the translator made a confusion about my job letting the reader believe that i'm the BIG director of my departement (wich i'm not). Exactly the sort of things i dislike  : lie about who i'm. I perfectly know that you can go down on flames and lost a relation with an FSU women about such detail.

The second thing, more harmful is the ad (AM I RIGHT every russian speakers ?) make allusion about nudity. Wich is really far from the french version i wanted. To suggest is not to say, if you want to have the tone of the whole message.
In this ad
1/ i deliver some basics information.
2/ i tell how my friends see me, what we can share (sports / culture)
3/ i put a little enigma to raise curiosity following by the connection needed with my beloved
4/  (last part, not well translated and showed in the topic) Time of an HYPOTHETICAL journey with me. It's a mix of present and futur but the whole action is of course conditional. It's an invitation to share something and to tease her. Vincenzo you are right writing "hugging and kissing each other" is already a trempolino to prepare her to do it and to accept it. I'm a little higher than you but as i have more text, i begin on the zero level upgrading by a complete use of human senses and i finish higher, climbing over. Don't forget that the part in russian in the ad is only half of the whole ad.  

So i feel angry and frustated because i'm a writer in french for a long time, i've got some prices and in french, few people (because you don't send your whole introduction to the earth) consider it (not the ad) as a "piece of art".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: I/O on May 03, 2011, 05:00:20 PM
where is the barf icon?
Right here------> :puke:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 03, 2011, 05:43:23 PM

The second thing, more harmful is the ad (AM I RIGHT every russian speakers ?) make allusion about nudity.

Patagonie,

I would rather say it leaves a sickly sweet taste of the past centuries' romance novels with some erotic reference that were popular among the young languishing virgins and emotionally hungry and unstable missuses in the prime of their life.  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 03, 2011, 05:48:02 PM
Patagonie,

btw, what is the genre in which you are writing (as a professional writer)?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on May 03, 2011, 08:04:25 PM
 the translator made a confusion about my job letting the reader believe that i'm the BIG director of my departement (wich i'm not).  

I did not found anything that would bring me on an idea that you are a sort of a big person in your department.

About nudity, yes, I found this. My understanding is that it might have been some figurative expression in French (assume the translation was from French into Russian?), but in Russian language it does not really sound well, especially in this type of introductory essay of a man targeting women.

Other than that, I don't think that the translator is to blame. He or she did a good job, trying to preserve your style. However, some particular places just may need rephrasing so that it sounds more understandable and unambiguous to a Russian female reader. Perhaps it would be worth to cooperate with the translator and to change the wording in a few places for the sake of telling of what you want to tell but at the same time of avoiding bad impression.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 07, 2011, 10:59:45 AM
Energy 65 %
Self confidence 91 %
Seduction training 85 %
Sport training : 50 %
D-13

Agency 1 gave me back some informations. 3 of my top list
has answered positively to meet me. Hb between 8,5/9 based on photos.
i got two others success on the free site i began to use. Two hb between 8,5/9 but calling one of her i realized that she has very very little english skill. So an interpreter will be needed. For me it's a reason to drop her later, we will see.
Agency one proposed ten profiles to meet. I will politely tell them that i'm not interested because i spent a lot of time to choice the 21 ladies. So i'm sure of what i've done.
I begin to feel more excited but always totally under control. For me they are only photos in an album. I need now to check the interpreter that i found and found a second one as backup. For the moment it's really the better travel i have scheduled. I think i can relax and focus on the most importants things : how i feel with the ladies, estimate if they are attracted or not and enjoy my life !
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 09, 2011, 03:36:05 AM
Energy 68 %
Self confidence 88 %
Seduction training 80 %
Sport training : 50 %
D-12
Things are going better and better.
a third lady of the free site put me in her favorites and now i'm just waiting her email adress to send her my whole introduction, because she needs to have more information before meeting me. I answered : "Dear lady I agree and respect your request. I have a complete introduction (all in russian, very easy to read). So you you will know me really better. The best is to give me an email because i cannot send it on this site. Mine is myemail@provider.country. Sincerely. Patagonie" She is from Kharkov wich is not the city i aim for, but i will surely go to Harkov anyways, so a meeting is possible.

My strategy is to arrive in Dnepropetrovsk, meet a maximum of girls, between 8 an 10 during the week end an 6 more, monday, tuesday and wednesday. Wednesday i will think about how is things are growing. If i don't like any i will go for the second week end to Harkov. And if things are fine i will go to Harkov next monday for two or three days because i know some people and i like this city. We will see. The goal is normally to focus on two or three maximum to know her better and spend time with them the second week end and of course the last one.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 09, 2011, 07:47:25 AM
Before you go :
When you contact girls of the city where you want to go.
Advice 1 : don't be shy.
Tell them bla bla bla bla i'm coming in your city SOON
Don't tell them exactly when, just soon. Or better before the end of june or ....

Perhaps you will have at first time very few answers.
Why ? I had had the explanation before my first travel when i tried to contact ladies. After a first mail no answer. I thought, ok, if she doesn't like me it's really simple to say, "bye good search, but i'm not interested". But in fact i had guessed there an another reason : she didn't believe me. So I contacted her again saying, I'M REALLY COMING and I CAN SHOW YOU A COPY OF THE TICKETS.
So she answered and we had had a little discussion about that issue. She explained me that a lot of guys are saying the same type of things just to get her interest but they never show.
So don't be reluctant to contact them twice and let her begin to think "he elects me".



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 09, 2011, 08:23:52 AM
Lady 3 of free site contacts me  ;).
But i don't know, for this one (text of the mail, photo in very low resolution), my antenna anti-scammer/goldrigger is UP and i'm going  to analyze all the spectrum of informations available. Time will give me more information.
Some girls are VERY professionnal and will wait the third or fourth travel to scam you (true, one tried to scam me after TWO travels, never asking me money or showing any interest about this issue). So now i feel my guts and rely on.

To be sure, if i have a meeting with her i would use Mila as interpreter in Kharkov, and in few minutes she will check her. No money wasted, believe me !
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 09, 2011, 01:36:25 PM
About the adresses i got from agency 1.
I've decided to send anything, not enough time to be sure that ladies will receive it.
Too risky, wasted time and wasted money. I've decided to keep these adresses in my database perhaps for a next travel, if needed.
I think really i have enough girls to meet. And it will be very complicated to send letters locally without knowing the whole agenda of who i will see and who i will not see.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 10, 2011, 08:23:09 AM
Energy 60 %
Self confidence 81 %
Seduction training 75 %
Sport training : 50 %
D-11

Ok now we are more statistics about our score :
Agency 1 : 9 of 21 girsl are interested to meet me.
Wich, at my opinion, is a very good score. Of course in an agency that you don't know (with the label : not honest) it means nothing. As they can use few "mules" to milk you during the week with the money given to the interpreters. But this one have good reputation. And they will not really milk me with interpreters as we will see later.

So score is 43%.
 Finally i agreed to see two girls of their own list, one want to really meet me.

Total 10 dates.

Now, for the moment it's more prudential to not contact agency 2, because i will not have enough time to meet girls' agency2 on the beginning of my trip. BUT as little time is needed to get the date, you need to contact them in advance, perhaps two days before.

As i'm really comfortable i can wait monday.

I must schedule the two girls of Dnepropetrovsk too. And as one is living at 50 kilometers and has today a good interest i must schedule her for a whole evening. The best seems to be sunday in the evening. It's a little boring because if i don't like her she will travel a lot for not a long time of meeting. But on the opposite this shows her interest. At this occasion, as of course i will pay all her expenses (i will propose and as she is a teacher, if she won't i will insist because this job is amongst the cheapest) we will know her degree of honesty. Interesting. It's like a poker situation : i'm ready to pay to see the cards, if there is really something wrong : NEXT.

Something funny. The agency wrote me :
"Ladies usually don't want to come for the meeting earlier then at 12 a.m. - 1 p.m. (It may take them two hours to get ready for a date)." TRUE :clapping: ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 11, 2011, 07:58:12 AM
Now it's time to exam a little more those twelve ladies :
I must memorize more about them, even if i have the whole bunch of photos of woman i'm interested in my iphone.
So in average they are 173 cm and 32 old.
I have no problem with tall women, my first FSU GF was 176 cm and with her high heel it was perfect for kiss  8) . My doctor recommended me to make as possible any efforts during kissing because of my neck. On twelve four have a single child, this is my choice. So i think i'm not dating out of my court and, based on photos the average range of this ladies is around 8.4/8.5. Wich is higher than what i date here in my country, but not so much (no more than 0.3/0.4 point i think)

As everybody knows photos studio are always a pain and you suffer of disappointement when you meet the girl because she is loosing 0.5 point at least. The problem is not that they are shooted in a studio by a professionnal. The main problem that these photos are processed with Photoshop for a whole lifting.
For mine i used a friend, he is a professionnal, but he shoteed me in natural condition, and NO photoshop at the end. Just color, brightness balance  like each photo in the world.
Everybody want to pass the physical attraction test, because, you know, people are judged on their photos, by the girls directly, and when the agency call the ladies, i imagine the first thing they are waiting is to have an answer at this question "how does he look ?". Height and weight are the second masters parameters which fix the decision. Of course if you are widowed with 4 childs it can afraid her too.
But overprices your photos (use photos shooted ten years ago) to pass the physical attraction to get the date can be a disadvantage during the meeting itself.
Really it's better to not disappoint your date. It's true for men and it's true for women.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 11, 2011, 03:17:35 PM
The girl of Lugansk contacted me again (i thought that she was lost).

She is 25 with a very young child. She is not in my age  target range. But 1/ she speaks a good english 2/ she has a baby 3/ She contacts me first on a good site  4/ i like her photo. She seems (for the moment), genuine and simple.

One of the problem of the international dating is to manage your emotions and to control yourself.
As you browse a bunch of photos you are  in general prone to focus on some, forgetting your goal to aim one city.
And when you aim a city you use differents ways to meet ladies. Agencies, free sites, paid sites, interpreters who will introduce you to girls, ads. This is to maximise your chances. So each time you can be "distracted" by many women who don't live in your target. Begin a correspondance with them doesn't help the process, quite the opposite !

Must i throw away this girl ? Knowing that for the moment her profile shows interesting clues. And her city will be, if nothing happens during this travel (if something happens my way is to enter in an unique relation, normally i prefer to enter quickly  in such relation but experience has showed me that it's better to delay rather to propose too quickly)  the next on my list.

So i decided to :
Going to see her in Lugansk during my 17 days trip is out of question.
I don't know  her for the moment, let's the correspondance go on.
First see the 12 girls who are waiting to meet
And take a decision later (propose her to come, at my expense, why not ? This will show of course her interest)

It's better to have more possibilities than time to consume it.
It happened to me twice to be stucked during one or days with no action, and really you feell trapped, and it's annoying when you really know what you want in life.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 12, 2011, 09:50:54 AM
Now it's time to speak about what i will bring with me.

First i have a bacpack where i put into :
All expansive items, and in particular computer, watches,CD, camera battery charger.

Second in the suitcase i put only clothes and shoes and of course a toilet bag. This time i need to bring a special bottle of wine for the interpreter i met during my last travel.

I bought a stiff suitcase. The idea is that they need to broke it and leave some trace so you can make a claim straight head to the company. I think they are interest by all metallic objects put in the luggage, because they see it on the scanner. So all metallic objects are in my backpack, and i always keep my backpack with me during the travel, wich i finally put in the cabin for the flight.

For the moment i never had a problem. But i remember, in Kiev's station baggage room, the employee tried to open it. Fortunately he didn't success. With a non rigid suitcase i would have been stolen.

After your arrival in FSU the first feeling you have when you are preparing yourself for the first meeting is that you briefly realize that you are almost alone on the earth. Yours landmarks are cut and you have nothing. Only you, your skin, your clothes, a part of your energy (limited after the travel, especially for USA guys), and half or a quarter of your potential of communication. Fortunately, the sight of the beautiful women who are waiting you on the sidewalk restarts your energy in general. Some are even excited few hours before. For all who are not easy in dating, the excitation phase is also the disturbed phase,
which can bring some undesirable effects :ROFL:

At this point you realize that you are almost nuked.

My armor is built with my clothes, my self energy, my natural self confidence.
Clothes ?
Interesting.
For what i saw and in the FSU and in the west, not many man are well dressed. In fact few or very few. Some make efforts but it's obvious they have no taste. We can say there are many levels :

Not dressed
Make efforts but without results (sometimes it's counterproductive)
Buy good clothes (valuable items) but not coordinated
Buy good clothes coordinated
Able to make combo with good taste
Able to make combo and show a real personnality in clothes with taste even if standards are not respected (personnality overtops the rules)

For 2000 years there is no doubt that clothes are a big factor to improve the most important : yourself. Why do you prefer FSU with high heels and skirts, for the same level of beauty, rather than her western counterpart, with baggy throuser and no make up ?
I don't want to argue about this discussion, everybody, i think, share the same clues about this topic.

When i came in FSU i was top dressed. But in fact, the second travel (i don't want to display details) it costs me a restaurant's bill of 450 $. The girl, who knew probably a lot about clothes, asked me at a moment, your coat, is a Cavalli ?
My real answer : yes.
Second answer : yes, i bought it in discount
third answer : yes, i bought it in discount for 35% of the price.
Fourth answer : yes, i like clothes and i find discount or second hand brand clothes.
Fifth answer : yes, i like clothes and i find discount or second hand brand clothes but i'm not rich because tatata tatata.........
Sixth answer : no, it's a copy honey.

As you imagine i couldn't say no more than  "yes". (or perhaps the sixth  ;D 8) )

So because you have beautiful clothes you are surely "RICH" (i translate quickly but a lot of girls can think in this manner). PROBLEM (because what you wear is the only "palpable" measure of what you earn, and, in particular : WATCHES)

Where are we going ?

So must i come like dressed like a motor mechanic ?

Next post i propose you to show you how i've decided to manage this problem.



 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 13, 2011, 02:21:48 AM
 Yesterday i was hanging up in a business party.
There was a top HB, 21-24, tall, blond, high heels (living in USA with her mother, dentist, sometimes topmodel). She was the more beautiful. Guess what ? She is from Belarus.

Three western women (in their fourties/all above 7+/8) i know very well, spent a part of their evening looking at the young ones, criticizing them.
And one of the three started to tell me the girl from Belarus is probably an escort girl and tatati and tatata.
You know what fellows ? I'm tired of these women.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 13, 2011, 01:01:11 PM
Energy 40 %
Self confidence 66 %
Seduction training 60 %
Sport training : 30  %
D-8

So last time i was writing along clothes' problems.
How to be dressed like a motor mechanic.
Oh  :cluebat:

Sorry i mean, well dressed but not a bunch of tag saying : i'm DG, I'm Kenzo, I'm Dior, I'm Lacroix, I'm Cavalli, I'm Armani, I'm Versace, I'm T Mugler,  I'm Dad's brand with a full wallet of bucks.

A non brand leather jacket. When girls touch it, they absolutely want to continue, and if possible to sleep with it. Always slight smell of leather when come in contact. And slim fit of course.

Our number 1 (just to list, not because it's my preference)
(don't imagine the jacket is B Tornade : it's just the hanger)

(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/K:%5CDisque%20amovible%5CcuirJacket.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 01:14:25 AM
Today our mission : shopping.
I need to find a jean, few cheap T-shirt and if possible an inexpensive BLUE jacket.
Number 2 a black jacket, fit slighty large so you can wear a thin polo neck sweater underneath ( number 3)
(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/c:%5Cimperialblack.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 01:19:58 AM
Oups a little problem of control with photos, sorry. :wallbash:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 01:28:05 AM
About the third part (the THIRD part, i don't want to put all details of my private life (part1 / part 2) of my ad :
I ask to a translator who speaks french that i know from Kharkov to translate a new edition.
Again i thank Aloe for the work done  :flowers: Aloe, she checked this one and even if it's NOT the exact meaning of what i want to write in my native language, it seems to be this one is acceptable.

Я мечтаю о тебе с первого дня нашей встречи во Франции: я возьму тебя за
руку и мы будем путешествовать вместе по горам. Потом мы увидим восход
солнца. Я приглашу тебя на обед сразу над озером с разноцветными витражами
и красивым видом на местность. После мы возьмем каное, чтобы добраться до
середины озера. Мы будем вместе плавать и если ты будешь хорошо себя вести,
я намажу твои плечи солнцезащитным кремом (только если ты окажешься
действительно очень милой).Перед ужином я заберу тебя, прежде, чем мы пойдем
в маленький замок в горах около леса. Мы пойдем в теплый ресторанчик, чтобы
отведать традиционной французской еды и расслабимся около камина и
нескольких кошек, которые будут ходить вокруг тебя и мурлыкать, если ты
почешешь их. Если ты действительно романтик, мы могли бы погулять в лесу за
замком, послушать шепот ветра между деревьями, но я должен лучше тебя
узнать, чтобы предложить это, потому что там темно и я не знаю, что может
случиться с тобой, а в друг ты опасная женщина. Ты можешь попытаться
поцеловать меня в ушко, самую чувствительную зону. Это то, что произойдет в
первый день. О втором спроси меня.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 14, 2011, 01:29:48 AM
Your clothes did not cost you $450 for a restaurant bill.  It was your decision to let the girl manipulate you.  Like others have said, say you do not like the menu and go somewhere else.  It's really your choice if you are the "real man"; you have to put your foot down and say no.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 06:06:37 AM
Perhaps you are right but the truth is probably not so simple.

I'v spent 10 evenings with this girls and it was the last evening of my second travel.

We were having an affair and she had bring me in a very romantical place (i remember one time she scheduled a promenade in a beautiful park wich cost nothing) near to the Dnepr, on a boat.
Do you think really if i was capable of studying the menu and the prices in cyrillic knowing absolutely nothing of this language, in the darkness, and before entering in the restaurant  ?
And i was not knowing that prices of fish are going by 100g, so of course when i saw prices on the menu inside the restaurant i was thinking that the bill will be reasonnable, probably a little high (i mean in this decor it will be perhaps maximum100-150$), remember it was our last dinner.

I asked a special dish, not knowing in fact there is lobster with the dish (wich of course increased the price in an outstanding proportion). She asked exactly the same dish as me, after i had choiced.

Yes she was into me, perhaps immature, a little weird perhaps, one year and half after i always asking myself some questions AND of course i think about my mystakes, my inexperience (like all newbie), bad advices given. Believe me, I spent more than one year to analyse the girl, but MORE about my demeanor and my OWN immaturity during the beginning  of such endeavor in this so difficult adventure, full of pitfalls.
You are perhaps right but i have found valuable reasons to excuse her (but i'm not excusing her core immaturity)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 06:31:37 AM
Our item 4
An inexpensive T-Shirt, perfect with one.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 07:41:33 AM
FIVE : Now a pair of killer shoes, brown color, damned where are the jackets ?
I have two, but brand, a Kenzo and Lacroix, must i cut the tag with scissors, making a hole in the fabric ?  :cluebat:

Perhaps i have a solution (scratching his head)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 07:57:04 AM
I cannot resist to show (even if it will stay at home) the inside of a Lacroix jacket, wich is far above of all i see for this sort of suit. In fact you dream to wear the inside outside, so it's beautiful.  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 15, 2011, 02:11:05 AM
...And i was not knowing that prices of fish are going by 100g, so of course when i saw prices on the menu inside the restaurant i was thinking that the bill will be reasonnable, probably a little high (i mean in this decor it will be perhaps maximum100-150$), remember it was our last dinner...

This is slightly  :offtopic:  from the main point of Patagonie's thread, but I got caught like this when buying an ice-cream at the food court in the mall under the Maidan in Kyiv.  I saw the price of 10 UAH, which seemed OK for what looked like nice ice-cream.  I couldn't believe what happened next - the girl put a couple of scoops into the cone, then WEIGHED IT, and told me that the price was 12.20 UAH!  Of course I wasn't worried about an extra couple of Hryvnia (and it was delicious), but I've never seen anyone charge for an ice-cream this way, even in Russia.  I had no idea that the 10 UAH was for xx grams!
 
I had had experience of food being weighed in Russia (quite often, but without extra costs), and it seemed amusing at the time that the pancake restaurant where I regularly ate in St Petersburg made such a big production out of ensuring that I got EXACTLY 250 grams of this, and 300 grams of that, and 150 grams of something else!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 08:22:13 AM
Anotherkiwi, thank you for your post, it's just not off topic, i've also meet the same type of problem in restaurant of fish in Sardegna.

Now everybody  remember of this killer brown pair of shoes ? And the two jackets we have to leave at home ?
Ok here it is : SIX. Not a coat, in wood, a reefing-jacket. Sweet inside and warm.
You can wear open,
close,
very close.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 08:23:50 AM
SIX : look the detail to close the inside pocket

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 08:30:05 AM
Item SEVEN : what happens if the weather is very cold, or too warm for this reefing jacket :
This the solution : you can wear underneath or by oneself
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 08:32:57 AM
ITEM EIGHT :

If the weather is upper 25 our very very very very very very sweet shirt. If by inadvertency a lady touchs you she will never leave you  :luv:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 08:37:14 AM
And last thing to show you what are coordinated clothes (but i will no use this one as i will bring with me a maximum of two shirts, and not this one, because it's a little  TOO much) :
The state of the art is to let the girl believe that you woke up the morning, picked up your clothes and three minutes later "voilà" you are well dressed. Three minutes and it's done. Just a sort of divine action  :P who helps you because God loves you so much. How lucky are you  8) .
NB : this damned iphone's camera enlarges photos  :thumbsdown: , i'm not so strong !
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 09:20:18 AM
Item NINE
Killer shoes, by itselves the highpoint of the show.
I will attach the photos of the clothes around this pair later because i let it at the dry-cleaner.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 03:10:44 PM
Energy 40 %
Self confidence 72 %
Seduction training 0 %
Sport training : 65  %
D-6
Those last days i was emotionnaly managing disappointements wich i don't want display here. So my energy is not too high, and for the moment, few days before the take off, i'm so so excited.
I know me, i'm capable to game with a low level of energy, so i don't worry.
I think for the moment i'm playing, on the paper, a perfect party. Agency 1 believes that i will leave Dnepropetrovsk after one week. They don't know in fact that i will stay 10 additionals days. So of course they will do their best to schedule meetings  from saturday to wednesday.
Wich is perfect, so i can chain up how i want. Date 2 for screened girls of agency 1. Restart new meetings with agency 2. Go to Kharkov to have new meetings.
Girls of agency 1 i guess don't know me because i will be very atonished if they have receveid or read my whole introduction.
Interesting : i will try to ask to each girl wich type of information the agency will have been given her.
Girls from free site of Dnepropetrovsk seem to confirm their interest and i pull the trigger by proposing to the teacher a meeting sunday in the evening for a diner. She is the girl who i "know" the more and i think we are enough comfortable to offer her such event.
The second gave me her phone number very quickly and easily so it's not a problem although her oral english is very low.
The last of the free site, from Kharkov, the one for who my radar is up, had not given any news for 5 days. I'm not in hurry for this one so relax.

I'm for the moment more excited to begin to learn russian in Dnepropetrovsk with a teacher. And by myself i try to learn alphabet and vocabulary. Iphone applications  are really amazing. I think it will be really funny to say few words with those ladies and surely that will give us a lot of fun.
Now i can say that my thinking has changed about language. There is no doubt that the top of the top is too be good/fluent in russian. I have no doubt with this now. And i have the willing to learn. I realized, learning english, how it opens me big options. For my job of course, and with russian it will be the same in the future.
I know too that i've started my search almost since two years and honestly i think that i will not change of target till i success. I'm convinced of the quality of those women and, the numerous local women i had dated during my non engagement time with a FSU woman, haven't convince me to consider them for the moment as good challengers. I've not met such challenger in my country althought however i'm not, by philosophy, opposed to get married with a local women. But this didn't happen for the moment.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 09:29:22 PM
Item TEN
One of these black pairs of shoes. It would depend on the throusers and in particular of the width of the bottom of the trouser.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 09:40:53 PM
It's not finish yet, but fellows, you must memorize that during the meeting a girl focus in general at least on one of these three things, so each time you meet a lady, OR the same lady, you must emphasize on : shoes, your ass and your watch. If she notices only one of these three things, good point for you.  :couple:

I think now for shoes you have a clear idea of what i mean (missing one pair however).
The exercise is also to wear 15 differents outfits (because i have 15 days of potential meetings) and to pack in only one suitcase of maximum 20 kg (minus the weight of the suitcase and the bottle for my previous interpreter = 14/15 kg).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: nicknick on May 16, 2011, 01:31:57 AM
It's not finish yet, but fellows, you must memorize that during the meeting a girl focus in general at least on one of these three things, so each time you meet a lady, OR the same lady, you must emphasize on : shoes, your ass and your watch. If she notices only one of these three things, good point for you. 

I think now for shoes you have a clear idea of what i mean (missing one pair however).
The exercise is also to wear 15 differents outfits (because i have 15 days of potential meetings) and to pack up in only one suitcase of maximum 20 kg (minus the weight of the suitcase and the bottle for my previous interpreter = 14/15 kg).

Patagonie,

I'm sorry to sound rather negative but you do appear to be obsessing over what seem to be very small details.

While I would agree that it is always helpful to dress appropriately, I really would suggest that you don't need to take 15 different outfits for a trip that is lasting 15 days.

Also, while it is important to have clean shoes that are well shined, anything beyond this, I would suggest, is not really going to get you anywhere and if all you can do when you meet a woman is to:-

Quote
you must emphasize on : shoes, your ass and your watch. If she notices only one of these three things, good point for you. 

then, in my opinion, you are missing out on the whole point of meeting with women - in any country - which is for each person to get to know more of the character and personality of the other.

In your posts so far, you seem to be more concerned with how beautiful YOU will look in your clothes rather than anything else.

Just my opinion on things.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 02:41:41 AM
Patagonie,

I'm sorry to sound rather negative but you do appear to be obsessing over what seem to be very small details.

While I would agree that it is always helpful to dress appropriately, I really would suggest that you don't need to take 15 different outfits for a trip that is lasting 15 days.

You missed something. I don't take 15 differents outfits, i will wear 15 differents outfits, wich is different because it is the role of the combos. Combos are the way to wear many outfits with not so many clothes.

Also, while it is important to have clean shoes that are well shined, anything beyond this, I would suggest, is not really going to get you anywhere and if all you can do when you meet a woman is to:-

I don't understand at all these sentences. but don't worry for me, for the moment i know i'm going to meet 12 ladies (probably all real).

then, in my opinion, you are missing out on the whole point of meeting with women - in any country - which is for each person to get to know more of the character and personality of the other.

As those meetings doesn't happen for the moment i can focus of what i want and as i enjoy clothes, i'm focusing on clothes for the moment. If you don't find any value about these clothing posts and don't appreciated, don't look at it.

In your posts so far, you seem to be more concerned with how beautiful YOU will look in your clothes rather than anything else.

See above

Just my opinion on things.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 03:03:57 AM
I have an advice for you NickNick.
Drop this nickname if you use with girls, because in my language it means
FuckFuck. (it depends on wich sort of meetings you like  :rolleyes: )
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 03:52:23 AM
ha ha!!

I think to "nick" something means to steal it, in British slang.

Cockney slang:

"Nice legs, but shame about the boat race"

let's see if anybody knows what that means.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 03:56:32 AM
It does seem like more of a fashion report than a trip report, but it's yours so I guess you want to present what you want to present.  I hope the ladies you meet like your fashion and more importantly like your personality and looks.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: nicknick on May 16, 2011, 04:20:33 AM
I think to "nick" something means to steal it, in British slang.

Yes and it can also mean ''condition'' as in ''that car is in good nick''.

But, the term ''nick nick'' actually comes from a British comedian from the 1980s called Jim Davidson.  It was a derogatory term he used about policemen and their attitudes in those days.




I have an advice for you NickNick.
Drop this nickname if you use with girls, because in my language it means
FuckFuck. (it depends on wich sort of meetings you like  :rolleyes: )

patagonie,

Why should I be concerned that an internet user name on a website dealing with Russia sounds somewhat similar to a French slang term?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 04:23:23 AM
Yes and it can also mean ''condition'' as in ''that car is in good nick''.

But, the term ''nick nick'' actually comes from a British comedian from the 1980s called Jim Davidson.  It was a derogatory term he used about policemen and their attitudes in those days.




patagonie,

Why should I be concerned that an internet user name on a website dealing with Russia sounds somewhat similar to a French slang term?

I had a British friend whose last name was Bullock.  Apparently that means "pig" and when he got stopped by the police and he told them his name, they thought that he was trying to be funny!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: nicknick on May 16, 2011, 04:34:21 AM
I had a British friend whose last name was Bullock.  Apparently that means "pig" and when he got stopped by the police and he told them his name, they thought that he was trying to be funny!

Well, bullock is a young bull.  But it also sounds VERY similar to an English swear word with the same, although perhaps stronger, meaning as ''balls''.

Definitely not the sort of thing you want to say to the police.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mendeleyev on May 16, 2011, 05:34:11 AM
No offense, but my reaction was exactly like Nicknick, who by the way is no stranger to this land having lived in the FSU. You could learn much by asking for more of his advice.

My thought in pages 1 was that this was very weird, then in pages 2-3 figured you for a Metrosexual who is more obsessed, and I use that term judiciously, about how you look than about your character and personality. There is a Metrosexual culture in the FSU but most of those guys seem to have solely platonic relationships with girls, perhaps one night adventures, but rarely marriage. A RW wants to have the comfort that her husband will dress professionally of course, but not to obsession and she wants him to be more concerned about providing for her and your children than with how many leather jackets and pairs of pointy shoes you possess.

My wife is no slouch and dresses nicely. Recently on a trip outside the country of about 14 days duration she took no more than 4 outfits and 2 pair of shoes, including what she wore traveling, one of the outfits being a formal dress for the evenings when galleries would host evening events for her art. As Nick advised, 15 outfits for 15 days, each of such great detail, is way over the top. It will be noticed but perhaps not as positively as you desire.

I do sort of understand your point on the watch and shoes. My wife says that those things on me must not be noticed negatively. If the shoes are unpolished and in disrepair of course that reflects on a lack of professionalism. Same idea with the watch, looking appropriate for my position but not for displaying wealth or status.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 05:47:28 AM
No offense, but my reaction was exactly like Nicknick, who by the way is no stranger to this land having lived in the FSU. You could learn much by asking for more of his advice.

My thought in pages 1 was that this was very weird, then in pages 2-3 figured you for a Metrosexual who is more obsessed, and I use that term judiciously, about how you look than about your character and personality. There is a Metrosexual culture in the FSU but most of those guys seem to have solely platonic relationships with girls, perhaps one night adventures, but rarely marriage. A RW wants to have the comfort that her husband will dress professionally of course, but not to obsession and she wants him to be more concerned about providing for her and your children than with how many leather jackets and pairs of pointy shoes you possess.

My wife is no slouch and dresses nicely. Recently on a trip outside the country of about 14 days duration she took no more than 4 outfits and 2 pair of shoes, including what she wore traveling, one of the outfits being a formal dress for the evenings when galleries would host evening events for her art. As Nick advised, 15 outfits for 15 days, each of such great detail, is way over the top. It will be noticed but perhaps not as positively as you desire.

I do sort of understand your point on the watch and shoes. My wife says that those things on me must not be noticed negatively. If the shoes are unpolished and in disrepair of course that reflects on a lack of professionalism. Same idea with the watch, looking appropriate for my position but not for displaying wealth or status.

I was thinking the exact same thing.  so much obsession about his clothes, but not much seems to be happening about his character and personality and how his character and personality can win a lady's heart.  And what is seduction training??  Please enlighten what your concept of this is!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 16, 2011, 06:12:38 AM
Cockney slang:"Nice legs, but shame about the boat race"
let's see if anybody knows what that means.
Drinking contest ;)?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 06:17:08 AM
Drinking contest ;) ?

No, I was told that it means "shame about the face". 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 16, 2011, 07:01:35 AM
No, I was told that it means "shame about the face".
Only in the sense that it's from a song of the same title performed by the Monks, an English punk band of the 1970s:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfEsmXbjcygCNGz61obmHuGqDouL9rM7weYitkR3Q[/youtube]
Lyrics: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/m/monkslyrics/nicelegsshameaboutthefacelyrics.html.

Cockneys have/had a hard-to-understand type of humour involving the replacement of words with other, rhyming words, which basically works only within the span of the specific utterance  - without universally accepted meaning.   

Well, bullock is a young bull.  But it also sounds VERY similar to an English swear word with the same, although perhaps stronger, meaning as ''balls''.
I.e. "bollocks". BTW:
Quote
Bullock (in British English), a castrated male bovine animal of any age

In 1993 an Italian company developed and sold the Bullock  Defender:
(http://www.bullock.it/img/img-family.jpg)
Advertised as "L'antifurto con le palle" - the car antitheft device with balls ;D.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: nicknick on May 16, 2011, 07:06:02 AM
Drinking contest ;) ?


No, I was told that it means "shame about the face".


Patagonie,

Sorry to hijack your thread with British slang.

Actually, both are correct.  In the context that Rubicon used ''boat race'' it does mean face. 

However, in a different context ''boat race'' can also be used to describe a type of team based drinking contest.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 16, 2011, 07:28:06 AM
Sorry to hijack your thread with British slang.
More interesting than a boring list of "packets" and pointed "ger-offs" ;).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 07:31:48 AM
More interesting than a boring list of "packets" and pointed "ger-offs" ;) .

 :thumbsup: LOL!!!!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Jumper on May 16, 2011, 08:39:59 AM
Good luck Patagonie..

 The idea is to met someone that is right for you,  and you being right  for them...
it's your intro letter and your style..

It shouldn't be surprising if it doesn't match others,
the world would be a pretty boring place if we were all clones.
 :D


that said

Quote
It's not finish yet, but fellows, you must memorize that during the meeting a girl focus in general at least on one of these three things, so each time you meet a lady, OR the same lady, you must emphasize on : shoes, your ass and your watch. If she notices only one of these three things, good point for you

 :whew:

 I'm glad you stated that it's ok if a woman only notices  one of those points ,
as i'm not much into shoes, or style, and I never ever wear a watch,even if wearing a   suit. Yes a fashion no-no,  and i simply don't care. :-X


just illustrates who is *right* for us, or us for them ,
is highly variable, a good thing!


 I'd be interested in the general  traits you look for  in a woman?
What would make her a good fit for you and your life, and what about her would
make you  a good fit in hers?
The specifics ,not the *good person , loving,caring , honest* parts.


as  small example:
Beyond the usual, good character, sense of humor, patient and tolerant,
 traits that she'd simply have to have,  to put up with me long term..  :P

  I need a woman who is a bit energetic and willing to jump into about anything ..
easily ditch the make up and truly enjoy going  diving ,jet skiing or hiking in the big natural parks here or skiing in the mountains.. one who enjoys the outdoors and appreciates its beauty.
 That certainly doesn't mean she can't also have many other interests,,
whether that be classical music, opera,or  enjoying a good restaurant, dancing, shopping etc.
 It's just that someone who wouldn't really enjoy some simpler things in nature,
a day and night spent  in some amazingly scenic place just hanging out,,
 or some active outdoor activities,  wouldn't be a good fit in my life.
Granted, she doesn't have to bungee jump, or anything.. ;D
 but she can't expect me not to!!!!
Basically a tom boy who doesn't take that too far ,retaining her femininity.
While initially and short term its quite easy to attract someone, it's much harder to find long term.


  Despite the guys giving you  a bit of grief , about the concentration on clothing, 
realistically probably far more FSU women would appreciate this sense of fashion ..
than a man like me who could absolutely care less about it.


So again good luck!!



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 10:12:37 AM
I had a British friend whose last name was Bullock.  Apparently that means "pig" and when he got stopped by the police and he told them his name, they thought that he was trying to be funny!
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 11:31:14 AM
More interesting than a boring list of "packets" and pointed "ger-offs" ;) .
My english skills are not so advanced than yours, what are pointed "ger-offs" Sandro ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 01:07:15 PM
Good luck Patagonie..

 The idea is to met someone that is right for you,  and you being right  for them...
it's your intro letter and your style..

It shouldn't be surprising if it doesn't match others,
the world would be a pretty boring place if we were all clones.
 :D


that said

 :whew:

 I'm glad you stated that it's ok if a woman only notices  one of those points ,
as i'm not much into shoes, or style, and I never ever wear a watch,even if wearing a   suit. Yes a fashion no-no,  and i simply don't care. :-X


just illustrates who is *right* for us, or us for them ,
is highly variable, a good thing!


 I'd be interested in the general  traits you look for  in a woman?
What would make her a good fit for you and your life, and what about her would
make you  a good fit in hers?
The specifics ,not the *good person , loving,caring , honest* parts.


as  small example:
Beyond the usual, good character, sense of humor, patient and tolerant,
 traits that she'd simply have to have,  to put up with me long term..  :P

  I need a woman who is a bit energetic and willing to jump into about anything ..
easily ditch the make up and truly enjoy going  diving ,jet skiing or hiking in the big natural parks here or skiing in the mountains.. one who enjoys the outdoors and appreciates its beauty.
 That certainly doesn't mean she can't also have many other interests,,
whether that be classical music, opera,or  enjoying a good restaurant, dancing, shopping etc.
 It's just that someone who wouldn't really enjoy some simpler things in nature,
a day and night spent  in some amazingly scenic place just hanging out,,
 or some active outdoor activities,  wouldn't be a good fit in my life.
Granted, she doesn't have to bungee jump, or anything.. ;D
 but she can't expect me not to!!!!
Basically a tom boy who doesn't take that too far ,retaining her femininity.
While initially and short term its quite easy to attract someone, it's much harder to find long term.


  Despite the guys giving you  a bit of grief , about the concentration on clothing, 
realistically probably far more FSU women would appreciate this sense of fashion ..
than a man like me who could absolutely care less about it.


So again good luck!!
Hello AJ
Interesting exercise

I think the most important for me is someone honest and of integrity. I think i'm searching for a lady who can be intelligent, i mean an emotionnal intelligence. Because to be communicative and patient is really a key to success in such endeavor, and to build a couple in general.
The life is not a continuous period of appearance (and clothes  :ROFL: ) I mean, yes, from my childhood i have a sense of the beauty across what make a poetry, a painting, a car design "special". I can enjoy at first glance in a photo what is the enchantment of a sunset being on the top of a mountain. Or in the real life  a woman brushing her hair, a girl pronoucing your first name with this so delicious accent and sensual voice, the harmony in color of a studied inside's house, and so on... Because a part of myself is an artist.

I think for me it's no important if my beloved is an artist or a competitor, i can come with most of the time if she likes. By myself i have had many many interests as i'm someone very curious. So activities, of every kind, are not an issue. I have both sides : i mean i can be strongly intellectual and make very simples things. In fact i'm proud of things made with intelligence but best memories are very often simples things. Because i'm under the armor highly emotionnal. But i'm not sure that i need someone as emotionnal as me.

I'm someone faithful with my relatives. I mean with people for who i have a strong friendship and women for who i have strongs feelings. But it needs time to happen I do it only when i have build my trust with them. My relatives can rely on me
Women, for what they have said to me, feel secured with me. In a materialistic way i can offer them a very secure life (wich not mean rich). I'm a man who thinks and schedules on a very long term. So i want my wife and my childrens to be protected now, tomorrow and if i die prematurealy. She can work is she want, but it's not needed and we know that is not realistic in the first or two first years in general.

I'm  a very tender man when i have feelings and so i my beloved is not "touchy" it would be a pain for me. I'm also very caring, toughtful with FSU women. I like to surprise in a positive manner by making little gifts, i prefer to show often (i mean in a strong relation) by my presence rather by the thickness of my wallet)
I'm a very social guy and i really like people. But i can spend a week alone with a pile of books  and practicing outdoors activities too.
My bad side is i can be velvet and like steel too, and sometimes not really patient.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 01:19:18 PM
I was thinking the exact same thing.  so much obsession about his clothes, but not much seems to be happening about his character and personality and how his character and personality can win a lady's heart.  And what is seduction training??  Please enlighten what your concept of this is!

Hi Rubicon.
Seduction training it the time granted in social interaction with women.
A lot of guys lacking of this think that FSU will be a good solution to solve this sort of problems. In my opinion, it's better to improve himself rater than rely on someone.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 01:20:49 PM
Hello AJ
Interesting exercise

I think the most important for me is someone honest and of integrity. I think i'm searching for a lady who can be intelligent, i mean an emotionnal intelligence. Because to be communicative and patient is really a key to success in such endeavor, and to build a couple in general.
The life is not a continuous period of appearance (and clothes  :ROFL: ) I mean, yes, from my childhood i have a sense of the beauty across what make a poetry, a painting, a car design "special". I can enjoy at first glance in a photo what is the enchantment of a sunset being on the top of a mountain. Or in the real life  a woman brushing her hair, a girl pronoucing your first name with this so delicious accent and sensual voice, the harmony in color of a studied inside's house, and so on... Because a part of myself is an artist.

I think for me it's no important if my beloved is an artist or a competitor, i can come with most of the time if she likes. By myself i have had many many interests as i'm someone very curious. So activities, of every kind, are not an issue. I have both sides : i mean i can be strongly intellectual and make very simples things. In fact i'm proud of things made with intelligence but best memories are very often simples things. Because i'm under the armor highly emotionnal. But i'm not sure that i need someone as emotionnal as me.

I'm someone faithful with my relatives. I mean with people for who i have a strong friendship and women for who i have strongs feelings. But it needs time to happen I do it only when i have build my trust with them. My relatives can rely on me
Women, for what they have said to me, feel secured with me. In a materialistic way i can offer them a very secure life (wich not mean rich). I'm a man who thinks and schedules on a very long term. So i want my wife and my childrens to be protected now, tomorrow and if i die prematurealy. She can work is she want, but it's not needed and we know that is not realistic in the first or two first years in general.

I'm  a very tender man when i have feelings and so i my beloved is not "touchy" it would be a pain for me. I'm also very caring, toughtful with FSU women. I like to surprise in a positive manner by making little gifts, i prefer to show often (i mean in a strong relation) by my presence rather by the thickness of my wallet)
I'm a very social guy and i really like people. But i can spend a week alone with a pile of books  and practicing outdoors activities too.
My bad side is i can be velvet and like steel too, and sometimes not really patient.

VERY GOOD!!

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 01:34:42 PM
 :welcome:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 16, 2011, 04:05:02 PM
Yes, in this TR section Patagonie talks more about clothes than others have.

But, so what?

I say let each person write about what they want to.

Those who  don't like it at all can just stop reading the thread.

Others, like myself, may not be all that interested in the clothes aspect, so we just skim the posts until we find something we want to read in more detail.

Like many other AM, I don't really care too much about my looks.
I am not a slob in my dress, but comfort always rules.
I wouldn't be caught dead in a pair of pointed shoes that might constrict my toes, or tight pants that constrict my 'equipment', etc.

Interestingly, when I was with the UW in Turkey for the month of March, she once commented that I would attract a lot more women if I dressed better.  But attracting more women is not a problem that I have.  The biggest problem is trying to sort through the ones that I do attract.  I don't need more in the mix.

Note: I decided to toy with this gal a little bit;  so I replied to her: "OK, I think I will take your advice and start dressing much better."  She quickly realized her mistake and said:  "No, don't do it."

And, I think it is a little bit gratifying to know that these hot mamas decided to be with me, even when my clothing does not match up with Patagonie.   :)

As a side note:  It is similar to a marketing consultant I know in the business world.  He comes into meetings looking like he is living in a dumpster.   The new clients really give each other looks and I can see they are thinking of ways to cut the presentation short.  But this guy is so competent that within a few sentences he has everyone on the edge of their seats listening to his words.  He wouldn't admit it to me; but I strongly suspect he does this deliberately as it gives him a sort of rush to continually start way in the hole, and then win over people.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 16, 2011, 04:38:39 PM
My english skills are not so advanced than yours, what are pointed "ger-offs" Sandro ?
That was a more elaborate example of Cockney humour based on non-rhyming word substitution:

ger-off! ---> get off! ---> shoo! ---> shoe  ;)

A line by Ronnie Corbett of The Two Ronnies British comedian duo:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Tworonnies.JPG/220px-Tworonnies.JPG)
Ronnie Corbett  & Ronnie Barker

"Dress warmly and take a walk in the fog": Wrap up (shut up) and get lost.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 10:08:40 PM
Yes, in this TR section Patagonie talks more about clothes than others have.

But, so what?

I say let each person write about what they want to.

Those who  don't like it at all can just stop reading the thread.

Others, like myself, may not be all that interested in the clothes aspect, so we just skim the posts until we find something we want to read in more detail.

Like many other AM, I don't really care too much about my looks.
I am not a slob in my dress, but comfort always rules.
I wouldn't be caught dead in a pair of pointed shoes that might constrict my toes, or tight pants that constrict my 'equipment', etc.

Interestingly, when I was with the UW in Turkey for the month of March, she once commented that I would attract a lot more women if I dressed better.  But attracting more women is not a problem that I have.  The biggest problem is trying to sort through the ones that I do attract.  I don't need more in the mix.

Note: I decided to toy with this gal a little bit;  so I replied to her: "OK, I think I will take your advice and start dressing much better."  She quickly realized her mistake and said:  "No, don't do it."

And, I think it is a little bit gratifying to know that these hot mamas decided to be with me, even when my clothing does not match up with Patagonie.   :)

As a side note:  It is similar to a marketing consultant I know in the business world.  He comes into meetings looking like he is living in a dumpster.   The new clients really give each other looks and I can see they are thinking of ways to cut the presentation short.  But this guy is so competent that within a few sentences he has everyone on the edge of their seats listening to his words.  He wouldn't admit it to me; but I strongly suspect he does this deliberately as it gives him a sort of rush to continually start way in the hole, and then win over people.
ManLooking, if you permit me
Just little precision : i can guarantee you that pointed shoes (all i show you) doesn't constrict me at all.  ;)
Like you my biggest challenge is now to sort amongst all the women i will meet. What a difficult exercise ! Big responsability !

About clothes. There are some precisions i want to bring. For what i've found is that often people wear clothes wich are not at their size. Second you must feel comfortable however. It's a rule, not only with clothes, but also in many issues of course. I mean, at my job, some guys in before their thirties have to wear a suit sometimes. They are like Mr Bean carrying  weightlifting, at first glance you are seing a sort of knight wearing a armor. Even if their suit almost fit themselves they are not comfortable with it.
It's why, of course, don't try to wear some clothes with wich you're not comfortable. It must be the continuity of your skin or you are playing a big turn off, quite the opposite.
Now, about your exemple, the question is why to bring some obstacleq with you on the way of success (enough difficult) ? Yes this guy is damned good, but he surely don't respect the dress code of a lot of companies, preventing him probably to be recruited by HR. There is always a middle path to find in live : i mean it's the same for clothes, too much can give a false sense of personnality and to push back people, as your guy (at first sight). Dressed like rubbish and ... you know what.... the same.
You can outpoint the rules when you have a strong personnality and bear your difference.
;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on May 17, 2011, 01:35:48 AM
Patagonie,
 
You being French, you should change your thread name from Operation White Panther to Operation Pink Panther!
 
Here's why:  :ROFL:
 
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQAMvmi1Zwk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQAMvmi1Zwk&feature=related)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 03:37:32 AM
Very funny Natural.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 03:44:59 AM
But i prefer white panther, rare, but not impossible to find. Pink Panther are more, ... cartoons material.  :D

White Panther, why such name ?

Panther : Feminine, dangerous, discreet, moving in a stylish way
White : color of versatility, cleanness of the soul, peace.

White Panther, full of pitfalls, awarding animal, wild adventure.
The sort of life, the sort of wife i want to be with.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 03:53:38 AM
For this operation :
i want to know, by asking to the ladies, wich sort of informations agency1 will have given her. I'm curious about that.
I will check too how they look in comparison with the photos.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 04:07:40 AM
About our 12 meetings, i've the pleasure to announce you that now it's 11  :clapping:

One of the girl of the free site is a scammer, probably a fat yuri seated somewhere in FSU.  :usd:

In fact it's very funny, normally you detect them fastly. But it's not so easy, a girl who contacted me, at first sight, seemed to be a scam too. But suddenly she became real, giving instantly her phone number, accepting that a russian girl i know call her, and also asking me to call her to hear my voice. So in fact you must be careful about who are the scammers, till they obviously ask money, wich sign their stupidity. Unfortunately for this one i try to communicate with her to tell that she lives very far from Dnepropetrovsk and it will be impossible to have a meeting.

As i like people i offered to a young women of Kiev to spend few hours with me at Borispol, having drinks and discussing (of what she want, so she can improve her french or her english. Just for the pleasure to be with and discuss. We will see.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 06:47:20 AM
You know what ?
Sometimes things happen in the right time.
I was saying you that i had to fire one woman of the list 12-1 =11.

Guess what, i've just recieved a new mail from agency 1 = +2
So now we have 12 meetings (on 21) and one more with one of the free site.

I'm really happy because of the two additionnals ladies, one is of my top four initial list. And they updated her profile, her english has improved from level 2 to level 4 ( :clapping: ). She is probably around nine, i've little doubt about that.The starting common point is that she likes the cinema. Let's start with this connection.

So this week end promises to be interesting  :luv:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on May 17, 2011, 07:40:51 AM
For this operation :
i want to know, by asking to the ladies, wich sort of informations agency1 will have given her. I'm curious about that.
I will check too how they look in comparison with the photos.

Please re-phrase your question if you would like us to provide some feedback. Sorry I did not understand what you ask about.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 08:23:46 AM
Please re-phrase your question if you would like us to provide some feedback. Sorry I did not understand what you ask about.

Hello Lily
I work hard to improve my english but it seems to be that what i'm saying is not always clear  :-[

I would ask to the ladies, wich sort of informations would be given to them by agency1. I would know for example if agency1 would have sent her photos, the whole introduction. Or if agency1 would have call them only.

To summarize : in wich way agency1 would have contact ladies, and what sort of information had been given to her.

About photos my question is : is there a big difference between the photos and what they really look.

Is it clear ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 17, 2011, 09:29:43 AM
Lily, he did not mean to ask the ladies on this forum.

Patagonie meant he would ask the ladies he was meeting.

Patagonie, here is my suggested rewording.  But I have no certificate to do this rewording.   8)

I will ask the ladies that I meet, what information had been given to them by agency number 1.   I would like to know, for example,  if agency 1 had sent her my photos and my complete introduction letter.   Or if agency 1 had only called  them.

About their photos, an interesting question is :  will there be a big difference between the photos and what they really look like.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 10:17:27 AM
Lily, he did not mean to ask the ladies on this forum.

Patagonie meant he would ask the ladies he was meeting.

Patagonie, here is my suggested rewording.  But I have no certificate to do this rewording.   8)

I will ask the ladies that I meet, what information had been given to them by agency number 1.   I would like to know, for example,  if agency 1 had sent her my photos and my complete introduction letter.   Or if agency 1 had only called  them.

About their photos, an interesting question is :  will there be a big difference between the photos and what they really look like.

ManLooking has understood the good meaning. Thank you ManLooking for reformulated my initial post.  :applaud:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on May 17, 2011, 10:26:54 AM
My apologies for confusion!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 03:13:15 PM
ITEM 11
fantastic black and white pair of shoes. You can wear with item 2, 3, 4

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 03:19:55 PM
ITEM 12 pair of cufflink
Wear with a special white skirt very fit.
 You can joke with the lady, saying : when we will get married, i will cut the arrow just for your, just to keep the most important.
Or I need to wear two metal hearts because i don't find one who warm mine.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 04:06:59 PM
 17/03/11

Blue Chocolate

Mon coeur brisé, dans sa cage en velours mauve.
Mon chagrin d'homme à fleur de jour.

L'ancre de ses yeux dans le courant,
se penchant,
dans la veine de ma peine.

I know the wedding

 
Le bruit des tambourins
et la peine de mon coeur qui vacille
dans le supraliminaire

 
Je pousse le Backfire en direction de Baïkonour
Je suis seul dans la nuit tandis que le bleu de tes yeux,
dans le cockpit de métal
crisse en direction du ciel


Come back tonight, she is a girl undercover
 and i cannot scream her name.
Je reprends la Biturbo et revêts mon costume de satin
Sweets days dans le secret des femmes
Do you know those so secrets days when the blue color
is so big that you cannot remember how to swim
Je tombe sur le répondeur, il fait froid dans mon coeur.
Do you know how to spell her name ?


Je démarre la FZR et le bruissement du moteur me rappelle que le vent du large,
la souvenance particulière des femmes,
peuvent à tout moment m'emporter.
Je veux être l'otage dans la clairière des fantasmes.


You should be chocolate and i will be your mate.


Le vent souffle dans la conque de l'espérance.
Je pleure dans l'immensité du soleil.
Tu me regardes,
 il fait jour,

je veux nager dans le lagon clair
et fondre à l'épicentre

For Blue Chocolate.

 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 02:52:02 AM
ITEM 13
You remember ITEM 9 (the blue shoes)
This is a simple T.shirt that you can wear with it, with a jeans
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 07:21:24 AM
ITEM14

Just a little poll :

Question A/ what is the price of this watch ?
Question B/ What ladies notice at first ?

I let you the microphone.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 18, 2011, 09:14:58 AM
Question A/ what is the price of this watch ?
€ 5?
Quote
Question B/ What ladies notice at first ?
The Eiffel Tower?


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on May 18, 2011, 09:23:41 AM
Wow that ad stinks "i am not serious about this" and raises a red flag the size of a little planet. Very unpleasant aftertase. First of all, all the talking about kissing your little ear, the most sensitive part, is kinda revolting, coming from a man you do not know yet. Second of all, just the fact that you wrote it and a woman read it, and when we read something we actually involuntarily imagine it, i just feel a little bit virtually raped for having imaginatory to have kissed your little ear, your most sensitive zone, eww, where is the barf icon?

I think it is unusual, and does looks "not being serious about marriage, only looking for fun," but i do not see the ad as repulsive. I think it's OK for anyone to write anything. If Patagonie likes his ear to be kissed, why not? He will attract the woman who likes to do it, and they both will be happy ever after. Let's not be over-puritan here. We are all normal live people. He has his preferences, let him have them. 
Also, let's not exaggerate. There is a big difference between being raped and being offered an ear to kiss. Maybe Patagonie has attractive ears  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on May 18, 2011, 09:31:22 AM
ITEM 12 pair of cufflink
Wear with a special white skirt very fit.
 You can joke with the lady, saying : when we will get married, i will cut the arrow just for your, just to keep the most important.
Or I need to wear two metal hearts because i don't find one who warm mine.

Wow... Patagonie, I'm truly your fan now  :clapping:
(it must be "shirt", not "skirt" http://www.womanandhome.com/imageBank/cache/j/June-09-Main-fashion-WhiteSuit.jpg_e_bce45a078ee3b134b7a092a347cd4f40.jpg (http://www.womanandhome.com/imageBank/cache/j/June-09-Main-fashion-WhiteSuit.jpg_e_bce45a078ee3b134b7a092a347cd4f40.jpg))



Just a little poll :

Question A/ what is the price of this watch ?
Question B/ What ladies notice at first ?

I let you the microphone.
It looks like an relatively old watch to me, the strap is probably replaced and newer, but matches the watch. The first thing i notice is the frame of the watch, it's unusual.
The e-bay has newer, used quartz watch of the same brand for $12 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140542465722&hlp=false&rvr_id=233255451137&clk_rvr_id=233255451137&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=M (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140542465722&hlp=false&rvr_id=233255451137&clk_rvr_id=233255451137&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=M)*F%3F&GUID=9df635d712f0a0aa14548034ffdd4bac&itemid=140542465722&ff4=263602_304652

another one for EUR 9 http://cgi.ebay.fr/Montre-fantaisie-DOMI-dame-/250821121261?pt=FR_YO_BijouxMontres_Montres&hash=item3a661a94ed (http://cgi.ebay.fr/Montre-fantaisie-DOMI-dame-/250821121261?pt=FR_YO_BijouxMontres_Montres&hash=item3a661a94ed)
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 11:19:51 AM
Ok we have two very good applicants, let's others competitors play.
 :welcome:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 11:23:26 AM
Wow... Patagonie, I'm truly your fan now  :clapping:
(it must be "shirt", not "skirt" http://www.womanandhome.com/imageBank/cache/j/June-09-Main-fashion-WhiteSuit.jpg_e_bce45a078ee3b134b7a092a347cd4f40.jpg (http://www.womanandhome.com/imageBank/cache/j/June-09-Main-fashion-WhiteSuit.jpg_e_bce45a078ee3b134b7a092a347cd4f40.jpg))


 It looks like an relatively old watch to me, the strap is probably replaced and newer, but matches the watch. The first thing i notice is the frame of the watch, it's unusual.
The e-bay has newer, used quartz watch of the same brand for $12 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140542465722&hlp=false&rvr_id=233255451137&clk_rvr_id=233255451137&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=M (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140542465722&hlp=false&rvr_id=233255451137&clk_rvr_id=233255451137&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=M)*F%3F&GUID=9df635d712f0a0aa14548034ffdd4bac&itemid=140542465722&ff4=263602_304652

another one for EUR 9 http://cgi.ebay.fr/Montre-fantaisie-DOMI-dame-/250821121261?pt=FR_YO_BijouxMontres_Montres&hash=item3a661a94ed (http://cgi.ebay.fr/Montre-fantaisie-DOMI-dame-/250821121261?pt=FR_YO_BijouxMontres_Montres&hash=item3a661a94ed)

Yes thank you Mies, of course it's a shirt and not a skirt.

Perhaps, i mean, do you have the mobile number of http://www.womanandhome.com/imageBank/cache/j/June-09-Main-fashion-WhiteSuit.jpg_e_bce45a078ee3b134b7a092a347cd4f40.jpg (http://www.womanandhome.com/imageBank/cache/j/June-09-Main-fashion-WhiteSuit.jpg_e_bce45a078ee3b134b7a092a347cd4f40.jpg)) ?
Because next wednesday perhaps, i would be free.
Thank you because you now i'm a so poor lonesome cowboy lost in the wild, and i need a driver to return to LA next thursday.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 11:26:09 AM
AND NOW ESPECIALLY FOR MIES

so please all others, shut your eyes and jump of two posts.
It's only for Mies, if not,
                                    me -->  :deadhorse: <-- the others
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 11:35:09 AM
For Mies (only)  :flowers:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 11:55:08 AM
ITEM 14 and 15
ITEM 14 can be wear with item 9 (enlarged unfortunately), price of item 14
50 bucks
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on May 18, 2011, 11:58:27 AM
Thank you, Patagonie  :)

i have a jacket with fabric like that or very similar. I do not wear it often, but keep it in the closet to pet every one and then.. the color of yours is much better though :D
and the shirt.. ah.. :thumbsup:

I agree with your comments about the effect on women of touching a leather jacket. My personal "most attractive for touch apparel" were/are soft sweater/jacket. I don't know the exact name/type of the fabric, probably some combination of natural material and synthetic/microfiber. Grey in color and feels like a soft mice fur. When i see/touch it, i feel like my cat when he senses catnip, maybe a bit less violent  :D   For first/second date - totally irresistible.  8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 18, 2011, 12:04:09 PM
(http://www.ferrell-lawfirm.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Image21-300x225.jpg)
Patagonie, I suppose you'll be using a poids lourd like this for your trip to Russia, n'est-ce pas :D?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 12:25:54 PM
(http://www.ferrell-lawfirm.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Image21-300x225.jpg)
Patagonie, I suppose you'll be using a poids lourd like this for your trip to Russia, n'est-ce pas :D ?

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
No in fact a black four wheels, 6 drives, composite carbon,
very limited edition. Special licence needed :
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on May 18, 2011, 12:34:39 PM
The man is a slave to fashion  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 12:44:43 PM
Thank you, Patagonie  :)

i have a jacket with fabric like that or very similar. I do not wear it often, but keep it in the closet to pet every one and then.. the color of yours is much better though :D
and the shirt.. ah.. :thumbsup:

Thank

I agree with your comments about the effect on women of touching a leather jacket. My personal "most attractive for touch apparel" were/are soft sweater/jacket. I don't know the exact name/type of the fabric, probably some combination of natural material and synthetic/microfiber. Grey in color and feels like a soft mice fur. When i see/touch it, i feel like my cat when he senses catnip, maybe a bit less violent  :D   For first/second date - totally irresistible.  8)

Higuys --> read CAREFULLY what a frank woman is saying : When i see/touch it, i feel like my cat when he senses catnip, maybe a bit less violent  :D   For first/second date - totally irresistible.  8)

Mies "combination of natural material and synthetic/microfiber", i agree i think the brown flower shirt i showed in the forum is made in such fabric, and it's the sweater i ever bought.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 12:48:59 PM
Mies, just to show detail (of course almost hidden with the jacket)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 01:00:11 PM
Guys, with such a shirt :
How to introduce you :

Two girls drinking champaign at a cocktail, you want to know them.

Hi, do you want to fly with me tonight ?
Waiting one sec, the finger pointed under the jacket, showing the first butterfly.

Girls : smile
In fact i have many (opening more your jacket)
This one is Tony, the other black Jerry
And the roses one are Amanda and Tania,
The problem is Amanda and Tania are very jealous, and tatati and tatata....

Make your own story, cause i'm tired tonight.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 18, 2011, 01:10:03 PM
Patagonie, while I like when men look stylish and cheesy, especially young men, but my advice would be: do not overdo with your style in FSU, otherwise you risk to look gay and get attention that you probably would not expect  :)


It is nice that you show what you are even through your apparel, it is important to meet a woman who accepts you for who you are.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Daveman on May 18, 2011, 01:13:12 PM
(http://www.ferrell-lawfirm.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Image21-300x225.jpg)Patagonie, I suppose you'll be using a poids lourd like this for your trip to Russia, n'est-ce pas :D ?


LoL!! does seem like he will NEED it!  ;D




The man is a slave to fashion  :D 


Indeed... but he'll definitely turn some heads with those threads...  really dig the shoes. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 01:26:33 PM
Patagonie, while I like when men look stylish and cheesy, especially young men, but my advice would be: do not overdo with your style in FSU, otherwise you risk to look gay and get attention that you probably would not expect  :)


It is nice that you show what you are even through your apparel, it is important to meet a woman who accepts you for who you are.
Yes i know but i absolutely don't take care, i have no problem at all of course with my identity. And women understand quickly wich sort of guy they meet.
Getting attention, expecting a type of behavior of people i don't know are out of  my concerns. With time anyways you cannot really lie in front of the mirror of love.
The most important is to be comfortable with your style, it's why when someone, yes, overdo wich is not natural for him, so he seems strange. IN my opinion women are really more open on this issue rather than men.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 18, 2011, 01:29:05 PM
Yes i know but i absolutely don't take care...
The most important is to be comfortable with your style...

That's right. Keep your positive attitude!  :) If you are comfortable your true partner will be comfortable too.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 01:31:57 PM
That's right. Keep your positive attitude!  :) If you are comfortable your true partner will be comfortable too.
Thank you. And it's true, you are absolutely right.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on May 18, 2011, 02:05:27 PM
the brown flower shirt i showed in the forum is made in such fabric
item 7 looks like the closest resemblance to that fabric type. I was going to write in the previous posts that this this item will be very useful for you :D but forgot )

as for phone number of the girl in white tight skirt, unfortunately i don't have it  ;D

So what is the truth about your Domi watch? :) (and i must say, i am completely ignorant at the watches field)
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 04:00:31 PM
item 7 looks like the closest resemblance to that fabric type. I was going to write in the previous posts that this this item will be very useful for you :D but forgot )

as for phone number of the girl in white tight skirt, unfortunately i don't have it  ;D

So what is the truth about your Domi watch? :) (and i must say, i am completely ignorant at the watches field)

I would rather say Item 8 (the shirt with brown flowers)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 04:16:02 PM
Sandro and Mies are very very good 10/10
 :applaud:

Price of this watch, with his new frame is around 12-15 bucks.

Do you think really that you need to expense a bunch of money ?

She will quickly look at it (the circle around the glass is in wood) and of course she will notice the Tour Eiffel. And a lot of question, oh you are french ? I went to the Tour Eiffel, i'm fond of Paris and  tatati tatata.

Just to say that you can win the attention of a women by showing taste, créativity and a way of elegance even with almost nothing.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 04:33:39 PM
Ok everybody
I'm having a great time and i'm enjoying this forum. I've receveid unexpectedly help and i thank these persons.
Now I will be very busy  in the next days  :P :P :P

What is my feeling, now ?
Energy 58 %
Self confidence 80 %
Seduction training 65 %
Sport training : 65 %
Mojo 10 %
D-2

How i react during meeting ?
Very simple : after few minutes :
I don't like, next
Perhaps, why not, i need to focus on her personnality to anchor something in the relationship.
Yes i want. After i need to focus on her personnality too (confirm like or dislike)

Really, really i don't make any plans with any of my 13 futures meetings. Perhaps i prefer this one or this one because i'm more attracted physically, but it can change as it can be quickly counterbalancing for plenty reasons (no personnality, inability in communication  and a lot of things that often you cannot describe because it's more a question of feeling and we are very different about this issue (fortunately, so everybody can please to everybody))

I will try tomorrow to send you few photos about clothing to close the topic (not the trip report).
Some people  :clapping:
and some people  :cluebat:

wich add a lot of contrast to the report. Myself i'm really LOL :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 18, 2011, 04:49:51 PM
Pat, are you meeting FSUW who speak French, or availing yourself of an interpreter?

If not, please regale us with some recorded snippets of your conversations, I'm sure they could be...interesting :D .
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 05:08:36 PM
Pat, are you meeting FSUW who speak French, or availing yourself of an interpreter?

If not, please regale us with some recorded snippets of your conversations, I'm sure they could be...interesting :D .

Sandro you are quite impressive because you are not so far from the truth.
In fact normally afer each (or many) meetings i record my feelings. And during my first trip i was even recording some meetings. I'm very well organized and i've all on hard drive with security backup even one year and half after. It had helped me to understand my mistakes and compare guts and logical intelligence (the second loose in general). It's very important to  record "à chaud".

I have no fluent frenchy girls to meet, and i would avoid interpreter as possible, i mean in Dnepropetrovk. In Kharkov it's a little different because i know a good one, and she introduces me, and now she knows me, and i have a sort of complicity, tenderness for her, something like that.
Granted, there are remarkable people sometimes and you really enjoy their presence and spend time with them.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on May 18, 2011, 09:55:44 PM
This is a very strange yet interesting TR and I'm really enjoying it. Fascinated that so much preparation has gone into your clothing... Almost obsessive compulsive IMHO - but each to their own.

I'm interested in where you plan on meeting the ladies, especially in dnepropetrovsk as my wife is from there and I know this city quite well now. Dressed so immaculately I think there will be a few venues you'll look (and maybe feel) out of place... But others where you'll fit into perfectly.

Where are you planning for meetings?

The weather is still quite cool at the moment but you'll see an instant change to very casual attire as soon as the temperatures rise.



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 18, 2011, 10:00:54 PM
This is a very strange yet interesting TR and I'm really enjoying it. Fascinated that so much preparation has gone into your clothing... Almost obsessive compulsive IMHO - but each to their own.

I'm interested in where you plan on meeting the ladies, especially in dnepropetrovsk as my wife is from there and I know this city quite well now. Dressed so immaculately I think there will be a few venues you'll look (and maybe feel) out of place... But others where you'll fit into perfectly.

Where are you planning for meetings?

The weather is still quite cool at the moment but you'll see an instant change to very casual attire as soon as the temperatures rise.


yes very different TR.  the clothing thing has been obsessive.  but I think we will all enjoy his experiences as he starts to meet with the ladies that he has lined up.  Look fwd to it Patagonie!!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 19, 2011, 03:25:04 AM
This is a very strange yet interesting TR and I'm really enjoying it. Fascinated that so much preparation has gone into your clothing... Almost obsessive compulsive IMHO - but each to their own.

I'm interested in where you plan on meeting the ladies, especially in dnepropetrovsk as my wife is from there and I know this city quite well now. Dressed so immaculately I think there will be a few venues you'll look (and maybe feel) out of place... But others where you'll fit into perfectly.

Where are you planning for meetings?

The weather is still quite cool at the moment but you'll see an instant change to very casual attire as soon as the temperatures rise.
I choiced Dnepropetrovsk for this trip for many goods reasons. One is that i like discover a place. Two two "goods" agencies work in this town. Three it's far from the crowded cities like Kiev, Moscow, Odessa, full of hookers, prodaters and golddigger. Fourth, it's far but not so, plane and fasts trains are available. Fifth it's a big city even so, there are plenty fishes. Sixth, with the Dnepr river i think it's great.
I have no idea where the meetings woud happen, probably near the agency.
Sunday morning i have little time to get ready, make change, find a sim card, and find the agency.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 19, 2011, 03:37:51 AM
About clothing,
things are really easier than you think.
And less obsessive than you imagine.

Look : it's easy.
You see something a little special, you assess the price with the quality.
You wear to know if you fit in it.
You think about : with wich others clothes can i associate this one ? ok you know that you potentially add a new combo, or several combos (more items you have and more easy it is) to your wardrobe.
You pay "et voilà".

I'm just showing what you can do with little time, not too much money. Just a art of life. After it's natural, ask to the girls, they will tell you...
And you know what ? Clothes are a way to connect with ladies and to have fun, and now i want to have more and more fun as i get oldier  8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on May 19, 2011, 07:39:16 AM
After it's natural, ask to the girls, they will tell you...

yes, i support this point of view  8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 19, 2011, 02:05:53 PM

Look : it's easy.
You see something a little special, you assess the price with the quality.
You wear to know if you fit in it.
You think about : with wich others clothes can i associate this one ? ok you know that you potentially add a new combo, or several combos (more items you have and more easy it is) to your wardrobe.
You pay "et voilà".


add some accessories and voilà ready to go!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 19, 2011, 02:37:36 PM
add some accessories and voilà ready to go!
Let your wife do the job !  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on May 19, 2011, 02:48:11 PM
I'm very well organized

That's an understatement if I'd ever heard one. Sure you're not British Patagonie?  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 19, 2011, 03:03:40 PM
Hello every
I'm packing now (in the red truck, but the truck doesn't want to enter in the flat, it's the problem, even with the help of my neighbours).

I'm exhausted, on edge, and it's not finish. The very good news is that the agency have made a perfect job, and the schedule is a piece of precision. Really i like what they have done.
More exciting,
a new lady has entered in the tour
So now on my my list, amongst the TOP four, three have agreed to meet. Really this adventure begins to be amazing.
Believe me, The Natural saw a lot of photos, those ladies are pretty good on photo.
And when you know that they are additionnaly, in average more intelligent and have more degree than the local i meet (i insist : in average), You begin to feel some power in your blood (but i stay realistic, this is the 0.1 % of the road  :D )

paka
paka
packa my suitcase
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 19, 2011, 03:05:09 PM

That's an understatement if I'd ever heard one. Sure you're not British Patagonie?  ;D

 :ROFL:

I need to ask to my mother.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 19, 2011, 04:17:16 PM
You would never believe it,
but my suitcase weight, exactly, The british and accurate weight
of 20,0 kg (trained traveller no ? ) :toocool:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 19, 2011, 04:34:08 PM
Patagonie,

you definitely must investigate who has spoiled your French blood   :D

PS You can begin with The National Measurement Office  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 21, 2011, 10:43:22 AM
I'M ALIVE, I'M IN THE CASTLE WITH THE DEMONS AND THE PRINCESS.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 21, 2011, 11:07:18 AM
I'M ALIVE, I'M IN THE CASTLE WITH THE DEMONS AND THE PRINCESS.

(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/9-2.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/girl_devil.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/girl_werewolf.gif)(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/curtsey.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/girl_dance.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/12.gif)


(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/good_luck.gif), Knight Patagonie
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 21, 2011, 11:12:34 AM
In may 2010 knight Pat the Second (the first had been lost in the wild and we lost his trace) came into the city of Dnenopretrovsk with all his knights and his army.
He took position in the center of the town to prevent all women to escape.
First he decided to order very strict laws for all women between 20 and 40 . in case of offence a special court must judge offender in less than four hours.

All men are immediatly deported in Kerch and the whole peninsula is cut from the rest of the country by a giant digging excavator. For those who when to escape they would be put in a special jail with DSK for THREE DAYS, After, if the militia forgot them, they will be shelved in a common place to forget who they are.

All women must wear high heels at least of three inch. In front of each building, a militiaman, with a special yardstick brang by the National Measurement Office will measure each high heel. If the high heel is under three inch, the woman will  quickly suffer a brainwashing by  Professor ThinkWithNoBalls (and her assistant LetHimWithoutMoneyAfterDivorce, our special question and torture team) and drop directly in Manhattan with a baggy trouser, a T.shirt XXXL and a pair of tennis. Special torture team will inoculate her a special medicine who will prevent her to wear any make up for next twenty years.

All women, upper 15 celsius degrees must wear a skirt, of course the same punishement will be applied to the offencer. The distance between the bellybutton and the end of the skirt must be under twenty inch.

Larges panties are not at all allowed. A maximum size of only 200 square centimeters only is allowed. Before going, each woman must show her panty to be measured and recorded in our registers. After approval a certificate will be done and then they will have only to show it before leaving the building.
IN CASE OF OFFENCE
The substituting of our special torture team, Professor McDonald, will add immediately 45 pounds to the woman for the next 15 years, with no possibility to remove it.

It's all for the moment,
Patagonie Second, God save our kingdom.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 21, 2011, 11:13:45 AM
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/9-2.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/girl_devil.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/girl_werewolf.gif)(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/curtsey.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/girl_dance.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/12.gif)


(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/good_luck.gif), Knight Patagonie

Thank you very good, see above. :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 21, 2011, 01:37:37 PM
All women, upper 15 deegres must wear a skirt, of course the same punishement will be applied to the offencer. The distance between the bellybutton and the end of the skirt mustn't be under twenty inch.

Don't you mean "mustn't over' twenty inches."

And what is "upper 15 deegres" ?

Do you mean the top 15 percent in appearance?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 21, 2011, 01:59:04 PM
Don't you mean "mustn't over' twenty inches."

And what is "upper 15 deegres" ?

Do you mean the top 15 percent in appearance?

Hoping it is corrected. Thank
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 21, 2011, 03:08:44 PM
Ok everybody
Travel is not very interesting in itself.
Just i was tired, and even if i managed the best i could, i don't really rest as the airport was crowded. I burnt the last sparks of energy i had during the day.
And even an almost good night was without real effect as i started the day without energy. I was more exhausted than rested.

Airports in Ukraine are improving, and so it's more and more comfortable. In Kiev the new terminal dressed well, but now you need to walk a little to take your local flight. Surprisingly it was a one hundred plane, crowded, which took off from Kiev. So again no really time to rest.

At the airport the director of the agency was waiting me. She didn't receive my last email.
She was tired and me too of course. She dropped me in a lovely two bedrooms in the core center of Dnepropetrovsk, taking five minutes to show me the surrondings. She was professionnal. Bringing some fruits, all needed for the breakfast, towels and so on...
We have a different about a problem with paypal, because she says that many weeks or two months are needed to be credited by paypal in Ukraine.
I paid her the balance of my bill 24 hours previous my departure but she returned me my money few hours later by Paypal.
Wich didn't help me at all because for this travel (i don't want to give details) i was already a little short in cash, not having enough time to get more money.
And cash for me is always security as i don't usually rely on bank card. I used only  three  or four times during my seven lasts travels.

To summarize finally two meetings happened. Wich in fact was really enough for me with so little energy.

Total time meetings  : 5:30

Girl one, CaptainOfCustom
Total time meeting 3:30
31, black hair with green eyes, she is around between 8.2 and 8.4. She was dressed to the nines. It's obvious that these two ladies spent at least one hour or two to be dressed and got make up. Wich of course showed their initial interest. Because both had read my whole introduction.
So 1/ The agency performs well and had sent this document, wich i consider  of the master piece of my "virtual" seduction. Even if it's not extraordinarily translated, it works.
2/ The agency's director read it too but don't remind all details because she is very busy. Really this agency is very good for the moment, i give them 9/10.

Advice : if you naturally explain what is your level of maturity to these professionnals (i mean agency's employees), if you are this person, if you are fun, if they enjoy to work with you because it's fun to work with you. If you bring something to these persons, so they can believe in you, so they can sale you.
If you are a salesman and you know that you are in charge of a bad product, How could  you be really sell it ? How could you convince customers ?

This travel i learnt something new : don't hurt the proud of east people (i already know, but i just needed to remember). I asked to the director, would you like me bringing you something from the duty free because  :cluebat:
 i know that it's difficult in Ukraine to get some good products for make up  :cluebat:
(wich is true but as she probably earns perhaps as more money than me or more so  she surely don't need anyone to buy good products because she can do the same in luxuary brand shops with plenty of her money).

So CaptainOfCustom is a little shy, emotionnal and she has a secret side.
Her body language opened only at the end. Turned towards me, sitting comfortable on her seat.
But
she stays with us as my second meeting was canceled.
When we walked she stayed between 4 and 15 inchs near to me.
She touched her hair at least twice while looking at me.
She smiled me many times
She looked at me in the eyes many times
She laughed many dozens times
She begun the meeting by asking difficults and accurate questions.
Like why having choice me ?.
If someone doesn't like you he will not invest time to screen you like this.

Problem : she don't like my language, she don't have a real idea of what relocating means (but is it really a problem ?).

Finally after the meeting, as i'm really suspicious i cannot really know her level of interest as she limited her expression and in particular her body language even if i felt it positive.
At this level i credit her of 80 % of interest and considering that my first meeting, with a very low level of energy i think it's a good meeting for me, as training for the rest of the vacation.

Girl two : EleanorDeGrandet, same age than previous one. One child
Total time meeting 2:00.
Tall , with not so much high heels, you reach the 6'4 easily. She was dressed as well as CaptainOfCustoms. In the firsts seconds i taught, no it's not her, and after few minutes i began to think : why not ? She is a little enwrapped but she looks good and sensual, in fact she is gorgeous. Both girls have big breast, C at least and they don't want to hide it. She is more beautiful on photos rather than in reality so i dropped her to a 8.2 for the moment, waiting an other meeting to confirm it as i saw her erected only few seconds.
Don't waste our time :
after two minutes, she almost touch my hand,
Deep stare when we are looking each other
Always lean in in her seat (in my direction)
Smiling
Laughing
I take her hand many times, it's obvious that she liked the contact, and i was the first to draw my hand back.
I can touch the cross between her breasts and she don't move at all, no backward movement at all.
She is comfortable with me, at first time.
I validate this meeting, her interest is nearly 100 %. she flushed less than the previous girl, because we spent less time together and perhaps (or probably) because she is less emotionnal.

For both dates, at the end of the meeting, french hand kiss of course, like the Comte de Rochefort kissing the hand of Milady de Winter.

At 6:30 i was free as an another meeting had been canceled. So i bought a 3G key with a new sim car, total cost : 475 grv. Really a top top purchase. Now no headache to catch internet and stay connected. I have to thank a member of this forum because this idea is him. Really, now next time it will cost me only 100 grv to get connected.

So during the dinner i tought : how can i validate these two meetings and in particular CaptainOfCustom ???
I was too tired to hang out and just want to stay in my flat, write, rest and eventually see a movie. So no girls tonight.

So i sent ДОБЫЙ ВЕУЕР Patagonie the second, king of Dnepropetrovsk after God (no it's a joke, just Pat)
Very Surprisingly the first to answer have been CaptainOfCustoms.
Less one minute later :
good evening, how are you (first sms)
what are you doing ? Captain of Customs (second sms, sent immediately after the second)
WOWWWWWWW 8) 8) 8) :P :clapping:
I stayed playful :
Answer : i'm fine but i'm really afraid that a custom's captain comes and controls me this night.
Waiting : wich means that the girl, with her little english, is trying to understand what i sent.
Two minutes :
Is it good or is it bad ?
WOW, she needs some explanation and to feel reassured.
Me : it's a joke, it is good to joke with you.
Her : Mmmmm
Now be careful : if now you let this lady with no more information about YOUR interest you would almost loose her  :deadhorse: . I'm not in Europe i cannot play too long and with a FSU you need to SHOW. So :
Me : it's good, CaptainOfCustoms, i have liked our first meeting. Have a nice night.
Answer : thank, nice night.
Now i can tell that her interest is 100 %, A3 validated, and firsts steps climbed with success. :popcorn: :clapping: :P :thumbsup:

I didn't answer to her, saying : i'm doing tatati tatata.
As  i answered extensively and quickly to her SMS, she could guess that i was not with an other girl.
I didn't want to propose her a meeting... For example it had been possible to tell her : i'm in the restaurant, do you want to meet ?
If she would have said yes
So i could have been pretty sure that we would have gone to a more intimate relation (handclose or kiss)
WICH i don't want because i want to meet as possible a maximum of girls to screen them with the aim  to set a short list.

Tomorrow : i don't know in fact.
We will begin at 12:00, but really i'm totally relax about meetings and in fact i don't care at all to know if it will be c/ d/ H/ Madame de Chantilly, Marina Dupont or Bonita Sanchez De la Coukalacha.
At least the minimal requirement is that her foots contact the floor for the moment.
Now tomorrow i would work on my understanding of the representation's system of the women i would meet, just an exercise, if i'm not too tired.

Last thing : the first thing that the director noticed this morning was my shoes, saying i never see such one, and saying to her assistant, oh look tatati tatati, how people dress, europeans, usa guys, they dress differently, and tatata and tatati. My first date spent at least two minutes staring my shoes too.
It was Item 9 with a simple T.shirt with long sleeves and a jean, a watch of 100 bucks, sunglasses and a belt. Easy : nothing else, just the keys, an iphone, money, passport. After gdes toilets, i had recorded (into the toilets) before the end of  the meeting my firsts impressions to keep trace of my feelings (my impression about the girls, not about the toilets  :naughty: .)

Summary :
my sexual tension focuses on girl 2
my marriage tension focuses probably on girl 1 but all can change.
The good question is : "imagine you with her all around the earth, with two childrens as mother, what's your feeling Pat ?".
It's a good question rather than to plan a whole night of darkness cavalcades with the first guard regiment of cavalery of Monseigneur De Chablis and his four mistresses.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 21, 2011, 09:01:31 PM
I didn't realize the French had such a good sense of humor.   :)

Well done; keep it up.   8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 22, 2011, 02:36:25 PM
DAY2 Today is an another day :
i didn't rest at all so for the moment i'm always very tired, wich is not without consequences for my game.
The agency is making really a good joob, i give them a 9,5/10 for the moment.

My policy was to not use terps. So the first time we went to the agency's office i had prepared a covering with 250 euros inside. My purpose was to give this money saying : "i know interpreter are a part of your business and i respect your business but i don't want to use an interpreter at all, so you will keep the money anyways and if i need one you would send me one".

I was with this covering in my hand and we were in the office with the terp. But something in my head was ringing, like "feel your guts". Finally i dropped the covering on her table saying : it's an advance, like a fee, for interpreter's expenses. The director was happily surprised.
For the total of 6 i met only one, it's the true, was really able to speak in english, the others not at all. Digging the catalog and knowing it i can tell you that unfortunately very few girls are capable to speak good english (i mean enough to have a real discussion). It's not manipulation, all these women are real, genuine, and even if i'm a suspicious, sometimes very suspicious guy, i can tell you that i believe the agency do her best to accomplish her duty.

I can also tell you that knowing few words in russian, and telling that you are going to learn it and that you want your childrens can speak english, russian and french give you a serious bonus in your score with these women.
And really it adds some fun. For exemple each time agency people entered or go out of the office they are always struggle with the keys (does the door is closed ? Where are the key ? So now each time i cross the door i scream CLUNCHY wich of course make the girls LOL. I answer to the director when she says you have to  tatati tatati : Yes Chief with the same attitude that the Sergent Donan did in front of his huey Cobra juste before shooting a long burst of calibre 50 into the wild.

My concern is i game with a very low level of energy and now a terrific toothache, and the dentist surgery is needed now, it's impossible to imagine me spending two weeks like that. So for the moment i don't find the usual pleasure that i find in sharing time with ladies.

My second concern is the second assistant interpreter i have used today. The first had been very efficient, this one, for me, it's  :wallbash:
She don't know all the vocabulary i use, i cannot make complex meanings. I must stay in very basic jokes. Really it's a pain. You are loosing time, the girl is waiting, the poor energy i have had if vanishing. So i decided with the manager to change of interpreter.

First meeting happen  not so far from the office. She was a very tall women and very large. Photos are not really adequate in her case.

Ladie177ObelixLady
Personnaly i did'nt like. She likes me and it seems to be that pick up her phone number. FOr example we are here in a faking. A heavy work with the photo, for 177 cm she is surely near of 75 kilos rather the 65 of the ad. I don't say that nobody would dislike her but it's really not my type. She was interested but me not.

The second PradaAffair fit, dressed very differentely of others, with throuser. little make up. After fiew minutes i found her agrissive. I was rally ready to bring back those too ladies at the office to stop this B/S. Ok she don't like me and i don't like her simple : next. SHe slows down quicky after the firsts bursts but she is different from the average of the Ukrainian women, who are, generally, at first sight, sweet.

We have discussed with the director about PradaAffair, this girl is not feminine, and the director is perfectly right with this one.  So difficult to sell the product for the agency. About the agency, the assumption that they know all girls is probably true, for what i saw. As some women was flaking the schedule, and even if she tried to choice on my list as remplacement she also offered me again to see news girls. I agreed.

Three : BombaO
BombaO is a geeeeeeeeeeeooooooooooorrgguoous person. You can bring her everywhere in the worl for camping and you will never feel the uneveness of the floor. And when she was entering in the coffee, showing a very little part of the panty stucked in a so huge ass, i was thinking, perhaps it's time to call many rescue teams to have a chance to extract this poor panty. Between ass and breast god has  make a perfect symetry so you are never boring even if she changes of position.
Ok she quicly turn her and her legs towards me, i can touch her without problem
She was comfortable, staring me, smiling. Ok she is interested. Me i don't know, nothing tremendous as you can guess. We spend one hour at least discussing about fashion. she has a child. I pick up her phone number.

Four DoctorBelly a new one recommended by the agency, 27, single.
Very kind, tender, interesting. My only mistake had been to seat near to her. SHe moved and relocate in front of me, wich is message to say : i'm not enough comfortable with you sir, with my skirt, to seat on the same coach. After no problem
Lean in
Show her tongue (sexual advance).
Staring
Always smiling
Come herself at the end to kiss me in the french kiss (version bonjour).
Insist to keep as friend even if i choice an other.
ask me about others meetings.
Explaining me when she is free
Proposing me to discover the city

Very good meeting : exactly the type of girls with you will not have any problems anywhere in the world. Reliable, honest, energetic, willing to learn and to work, interesting girl. Marriage material. Problem i'm not really attracted by her, i mean physically. I answer honestly for all questions. And promise to see her again because i want to know her better. She desserves it, absolutely. Phone number.

I drop Doctor Bellly aiming for a fifth meeting with CaptainOfCustoms at 21:20 in Moch supermarket. I was a little in hurry and just in front of the entrance of my flat i recevied a SMS from her saying : i'm cooking eat and i still not to be free sorry.
Weird, you don't wait  the hour of the meeting to send such thing, it's not really polite or she came, and after one or two minutes, seing nobody, she had had a tantrum et zou. With girls every thing is possible. For the moment no news. And i don't answer. I'm waiting to see the director to have her point of view.

Ok during these two days, i saw 6 girls, not the most interesting of my initial list.
As anticipated the three ennemies of the women in the international dating are the food and a too talentuous photograph. True. And the third is to not improve her english skills.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on May 22, 2011, 03:15:29 PM
I didn't realize the French had such a good sense of humor.   :)

Well done; keep it up.   8)

Yes, it is a refreshing change.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 22, 2011, 04:43:18 PM

My concern is i game with a very low level of energy and now a terrific toothache, and the dentist surgery is needed now, it's impossible to imagine me spending two weeks like that.

just trying to help to soothe your pain a little bit (from Russian jokes):

Three messieurs (age of 50, 60 and 80) are playing cards. Their conversation turns on women. A 50 y.o. says: the most beautiful part is a woman's legs. When I look at a gorgeous pair of legs I feel aesthetic pleasure. A 60 y.o. answers: Oh no, for me it is a woman's breast the most beautiful part! A 80 y.o. takes his part: Messieurs! No and no! Women have something else... I can't recall what exactly right now but it is très charmant!!

Paris. Early morning. A street cleaner swings his broom. Swish-swish-swish-swish... Suddenly he noticed a pretty woman in mini skirt and his broom starts to "swish" faster. A window opens and a woman screams to the street cleaner: Monsieur! Shame on you! You throw out of rhythm the whole Quarter!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 01:28:31 AM
just trying to help to soothe your pain a little bit (from Russian jokes):

Three messieurs (age of 50, 60 and 80) are playing cards. Their conversation turns on women. A 50 y.o. says: the most beautiful part is a woman's legs. When I look at a gorgeous pair of legs I feel aesthetic pleasure. A 60 y.o. answers: Oh no, for me it is a woman's breast the most beautiful part! A 80 y.o. takes his part: Messieurs! No and no! Women have something else... I can't recall what exactly right now but it is très charmant!!

Paris. Early morning. A street cleaner swings his broom. Swish-swish-swish-swish... Suddenly he noticed a pretty woman in mini skirt and his broom starts to "swish" faster. A window opens and a woman screams to the street cleaner: Monsieur! Shame on you! You throw out of rhythm the whole Quarter!
Oh it's so cute
Thank you for your support
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 09:25:29 AM
Day 3
Today dentist day.
Suffering a heavy pain, increasing more and more, i asked the agency to find a dentist. So instead of my date i dated my dentist, Yulia, who, of course don't
see my best profile to begin.
In fact she spent two hours into my mouth.
In the beginning, i was happy, i can even say impress by a such modern place.
But after one hour on my seat, the mouth always opened, i began to find such situation unpleasant.
Especially when they need to put above my mouth a sort of plastic sheet. And things improved worse and worse, they filled the hole wich some pasta.
After two hours, the hole was finally fillet but now they need to remove the surplus.
Now it's 3 PM and my date is at rendez-vous, already delayed one time for me. So i asked the interpret with my hand and showed her the watch and pointed three fingers towards her.
Now the dentist tried to perform her best, removing all the mecanical system in front of my mouth. BUT the mouth cannot close really as there is 1/12 inch  in surplus wich prevent the jaws to close. Each time she took the abrasor she removed at leat 1/2000 inch. I taught : at 8 i would be on this damned seat. So i ask a bigger abrasor.
At 3:15 i decided to leave the seat, regardless of if my jaws close or not.
A lady mustn't wait too much.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 09:50:44 AM
Elle a les yeux clairs et les pupilles faucon crécerelle
je la vois dans l'entrefouillis de ses boucles mauves
Elle se cache dans mon regard et se penche à l'envie
dans le dédale de sa pudibonderie
Bringing back and looking back
She offered me an additionnal break time
Just to jump in the seaside
Je veux la bercer dans le calice de mes mains,
Juste un disque de Joe Dassin à contre-point.
Devinant dans les ombrages du tramway
sa silhouette nonchalante dériver
dans l'emotional tension
Ses rêves vrais irriser dans la ville assoupie
et enfin vivre le rêve éveillé.

Special Dnepropetrovsk Event 2011, Pat
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 23, 2011, 11:54:12 AM
Pat, did you really set of on this trip knowing that you had a potential tooth problem?

That, after such careful planning with the clothes!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 23, 2011, 11:57:41 AM

Four DoctorBelly a new one recommended by the agency, 27, single.
Very kind, tender, interesting. My only mistake had been to seat near to her. SHe moved and relocate in front of me, wich is message to say : i'm not enough comfortable with you sir, with my skirt, to seat on the same coach. After no problem
Lean in
Show her tongue (sexual advance).
Staring
Always smiling
Come herself at the end to kiss me in the french kiss (version bonjour).
Insist to keep as friend even if i choice an other.
ask me about others meetings.
Explaining me when she is free
Proposing me to discover the city

Whose actions are you describing here; yours or hers?

Are you saying she didn't want to sit beside you; yet gave you French kiss later?

Something in the food caused the change??
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on May 23, 2011, 12:49:33 PM

Are you saying she didn't want to sit beside you; yet gave you French kiss later?


I read that she did not want to sit beside him but in front, then stared into his eyes in the manner a RW does when she is keenly interested.
 
It was not the American definition of "French kiss," rather the French definition of a bonjour kiss.  Americans would call it an air kiss or a peck on the cheek.  I have received such by French women and RW.  My limited experience says the RW version is more moist and not as quick, a subtle yet remarkable difference.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 04:03:03 PM
Pat, did you really set of on this trip knowing that you had a potential tooth problem?

That, after such careful planning with the clothes!!
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Of course not, i think the flight launched the problem.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 04:09:23 PM
Whose actions are you describing here; yours or hers?

Are you saying she didn't want to sit beside you; yet gave you French kiss later?

Something in the food caused the change??
I described her actions, but initially, i sat near to her, on the same coach.
So after few minutes she gave as an excuse that her place was too cold (air conditionning), to change and seat in front of me (classical).
My mystake had been to push too more intimacy, before having enough comfort.

The french kiss happened at the end of the date, just after leaving the bar. French kisses for those who don't know is a very common way to  introduce you to people by kissing cheeks each others.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 23, 2011, 04:18:47 PM
Day 3
Today dentist day.


Dr: Please, Open your mouth. Open your mouth.
Nurse, the anaesthetic!!

Dr: Close your mouth! Close your mouth!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rd2s9Bv-7Y[/youtube]
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 23, 2011, 04:21:36 PM
French kisses for those who don't know is a very common way to  introduce you to people by kissing cheeks each others.
That may be true in French, but not in English ;D:

Quote
A French kiss is a kiss in which one participant's tongue touches the partner's lips or tongue and usually enters his or her mouth. A French kiss is a slow passionate kiss which is usually considered intimate, romantic, erotic or sexual. A French kiss is generally considered an erotic kiss usually reserved for lovers.
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjAwMzA4OTA2OF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNDk3NDIyMQ@@._V1._SY317_CR2,0,214,317_.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 23, 2011, 09:20:54 PM
Sandro, after re-reading Pat's post, I must now backtrack a bit and come to his defense.

He did say: "Come herself at the end to kiss me in the french kiss (version bonjour)."

The bonjour word puts the kiss in a different category . . . yes?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 10:02:23 PM
That may be true in French, but not in English ;D :
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjAwMzA4OTA2OF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNDk3NDIyMQ@@._V1._SY317_CR2,0,214,317_.jpg)

Sandro is absolutely right in the usual definition of french kiss : kiss with tongues.

At this level of dating, with a marriage goal in mind, if i begin to make a TRUE french kiss to a girl it's not serious.
Not i mean french kiss by kissing the cheeks.

But after you are entered deeper in the relation, if each applicante agree you can practice the more "sensual" french kiss, wich is surprisingly not so well understand out our homeland. It's why i envisage to have a company proposing those sorts of training, with me like assistant and director of course.  :welcome:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 10:04:28 PM
Dr: Please, Open your mouth. Open your mouth.
Nurse, the anaesthetic!!

Dr: Close your mouth! Close your mouth!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rd2s9Bv-7Y[/youtube]

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
very good i enjoy
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on May 23, 2011, 10:05:40 PM
Sandro, after re-reading Pat's post, I must now backtrack a bit and come to his defense.

He did say: "Come herself at the end to kiss me in the french kiss (version bonjour)."

The bonjour word puts the kiss in a different category . . . yes?

You, Sandro and Pat must have me on ignore:
 
Quote
It was not the American definition of "French kiss," rather the French definition of a bonjour kiss.  Americans would call it an air kiss or a peck on the cheek.  I have received such by French women and RW.  My limited experience says the RW version is more moist and not as quick, a subtle yet remarkable difference.

Bonjour means hello.  So in this case it was a paka not privet kiss.  ManLooking, your lack of knowledge on this topic suggests that you have been focusing too much on other orifices or go for "it" at the first opening.   ;)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 10:08:07 PM

You, Sandro and Pat must have me on ignore:
 
Bonjour means hello.  So in this case it was a paka not privet kiss.  ManLooking, your lack of knowledge on this topic suggests that you have been focusing too much on other orifices or go for "it" at the first opening.   ;)
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 10:10:33 PM
Elle est grande, elle a les yeux pers.
Des pupilles dans lesquelles je me perds et cette pudeur
qui font que je n'ai plus peur.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 10:45:54 PM
I want to thank everybody for his assistance and his attention.
It's time to make a debrief. Some questions had been asked previous the trip.

It seems to be that the agency had sent at least the one page introduction. It rests unknow, statiscally i mean, if the whole introduction would have been sent systematically.

About the girls
i give you the estimated score and the real one.
On photos     real
8.4                 8.1
8.4                 8.1
8.3                 7.8
8.6                  8
8.8                 8.4
8.1                 8.25
8.6                 8.85

Time needed after landing  : 64 hours and fifteen minutes.

Agency score : 9,5/10
Honestly and reliability 10/10
Choice girls : very good.
Rental flat : very good but noisy (a little too much).

I've had great great pleasure to share these specials instants with you.

Sincerely Pat.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 24, 2011, 07:00:09 AM
You, Sandro and Pat must have me on ignore
But Pat was in the FSU, where bonjour kisses are serious stuff ;D:

(http://mikeely.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/breznev_honecker_kissing.jpg?w=350)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 24, 2011, 03:50:33 PM
But Pat was in the FSU, where bonjour kisses are serious stuff ;D :
(http://mikeely.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/breznev_honecker_kissing.jpg?w=350)

It's why i've never tried to enter into the party Sandro.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 24, 2011, 09:48:31 PM
I want to thank everybody for his assistance and his attention.
It's time to make a debrief. Some questions had been asked previous the trip.

It seems to be that the agency had sent at least the one page introduction. It rests unknow, statiscally i mean, if the whole introduction would have been sent systematically.

About the girls
i give you the estimated score and the real one.
On photos     real
8.4                 8.1
8.4                 8.1
8.3                 7.8
8.6                  8
8.8                 8.4
8.1                 8.25
8.6                 8.85

Time needed after landing  : 64 hours and fifteen minutes.

Agency score : 9,5/10
Honestly and reliability 10/10
Choice girls : very good.
Rental flat : very good but noisy (a little too much).

I've had great great pleasure to share these specials instants with you.

Sincerely Pat.

Hey Patagonie,

I hope you are having a good time, you French Peacock  ;D
Can you share with us the name and contact information of the agency??
It seems like they are very good according to your scores.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 12:12:03 AM
Hey Patagonie,

I hope you are having a good time, you French Peacock  ;D
Can you share with us the name and contact information of the agency??
It seems like they are very good according to your scores.
Hi Rubicon.
Yes this agency desserves. I contact them knowing they are serious, but it's true they are damned good and they have a wide choice of women. The director is very good and i think she knows all the ladies. When i asked to change of flat and stay here more time she proposed me a two high class rooms for 55$ wich is very honest in my opinion. It's Five Stars Introduction. I bought a service called a tour wich he is a very good option because you can choice and meet 25 ladies. Normally if you screen the whole catalog, sort 25 women and don't find one she likes you and you like her, i think you have a problem  :ROFL: :thumbsdown:
Pat peacocked
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 12:16:28 AM
HI HOUSTON HERE WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM

Pat, mission Apollo Seven.

Center, ready for transmission ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 03:39:04 AM
Everybody hello.
I'm the most lucky an unlucky guy of the earth.
As you can guess it after 64 hours and fifteen minutes i found the right one.  :toocool:


After time of chasing

(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/data:image/gif;base64,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)

It's time to

 :flowers:
And
  :couple:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 04:25:01 AM
I remembered one guy of this forum saying : when an FSU likes you, she would tell you.
He's right.

This lady has in my eyes something special (of course  :ROFL: )
for me.
She has always this special inside childhood into her eyes, a sort of prudishness but for what i know she is mature and focus on humans concerns. She speaks a strong english, has been living abroad, she's single, and for what i know don't have foolish expectations. For what i saw she takes care of my money and take care of me.

I'm not, as you have understood, this sort of guy who arriving here  for the first time, become literally crazy   :luv: , because, after two or three meetings he focuses on the first big ass and beauty face he meets, and decides to invite the family and god to blessing his new couple straight ahead.

I don't count exactly but i have met like twenty girls in one year and half, kiss 5, have had 4 affairs (what i consider like an affair here in FSU don't include sex (having only with one), for marriage reason, prefering to practice the fucking stuff with locals). Theses ladies were aged between 28 and 33 and scored between 8.3 and 8.7
So i think i have a good picture of what is a relation with a lady and absolutely not impressed at all by beautiful women. As you can guess it i'm very comfortable with people, all people.

So it's simple, you met the right one, why do you want to continue to meet others ? When i met for the second time Sweeties Blue i was having a call with my russian teacher. I can say that i saw her disappointement on her face, she was fantasizing that i was scheduling a date with an other woman.

I really think, and Elena Models explains it very well in her site, that you MUST enter in a unique relation. The big problem is WHEN ? Too late is too late and too early and you badly smash your face.

I have no answer. Only feels my guts. I feel this one genuine, deeply genuine. Perhaps i'm wrong, i will know. It's like poker, but i'm the guy who takes decisions and made actions.

So i stopped all others meetings because she is exactly what i want. For the moment.
We spent six hours together. But the problem Houston is that Sweeties Blue is leaving tomorrow Dnepropetrovsk for Moscow to see her sister for few weeks.

Do you believe it ? i make things i think in a perfect manner, having 15 days full time to find and spend time with my lady and now she is disappearing. I'm really upset. It happened the same in september last year. But today it will not possible to follow her, we are not enough comfortable, in our relation. And she must first proposes to me, wich would be a very complicated option anyways.

So what i must do ?
I don't want to meet others girls, not at all.
I'm thinking to leave this city, go to Kharkov to see who i like and return to my country because i have a lot of things to do, and i'm loosing money here anyways.

Any opinions appreciated. Thank you Houston.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on May 25, 2011, 08:18:17 AM

So i stopped all others meetings because she is exactly what i want. For the moment.

 :ROFL:
 
Quote
I don't want to meet others girls, not at all.

 
Snap out of it!  If you stop now, you will continue to feel down.   And a few months from now you could feel remorse for stopping.
 

Quote
I'm thinking to leave this city, go to Kharkov to see who i like

 
Perfect!  There are many fish in the sea.  Who knows what could happen!  Who knows!   Who knows! 
 
Important - when meeting other women do not think about the one in Moscow visiting her "sister."  Assume she is seeing her sister and maybe someone else and was just being diplomatic (white lie).   If you are thinking about another woman, the woman in front of you will sense that you are not interested in her and your charm will not work.
 
Do you have an agency?  There are many in Kharkov.  Many years ago I worked with All-Beautiful (small agency, owner named Helen-Elena).  They know thier women and they have excellent apartments.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 09:09:32 AM

 :ROFL:
 
 
Snap out of it!  If you stop now, you will continue to feel down.   And a few months from now you could feel remorse for stopping.

YOU ARE RIGHT REMORSE is always a feeling that you never know when it couldappear. But it's often when you don't do the right thing for you, i mean when your actions are not connected with your guts. I feel myself connected.

NOT SURE THESE women are not foolish, they want to know if you are sincere and they test you too. I think during my first four meetings, because i was a newbie, i had had a large responsability by loosing a girl for who i have had really strongs feelings (and she was interested too). It's the trap that EM describes in her site. She perfectly know that i saw few women and she knows that if i stay here i can meet more. I can lie as much as she, more than she. And don't forget she knows that i'll go to Kharkov, but for wich reason ? Why she must accept more my explanation than her about meeting her sister ?
 
 
 
Perfect!  There are many fish in the sea.  Who knows what could happen!  Who knows!   Who knows!
 
THIS IS EXACTLY the turning point which needs decision. I'm in the obligation because of her damned travel to binary choice between continue to chase (the best way to stay a hunter my whole life wich is not my goal) and enter in an unique one. You are right : if you don't show and say to her : YOU ARE THE ONE she will not believe it and will be not engaged totally emotionnaly. In practice how can you date girls when yours potentially is free in the evening, wich is pratically the battlement of time when others are free too ?
 
Important - when meeting other women do not think about the one in Moscow visiting her "sister."  Assume she is seeing her sister and maybe someone else and was just being diplomatic (white lie).   If you are thinking about another woman, the woman in front of you will sense that you are not interested in her and your charm will not work.
OF COURSE I HAVE IMMEDIATLY THINK OF THAT, BUT I HAVE NO TOOLS TO ASSESS IT KNOWING THE EXACT TRUTH, JUST ALL SHE SAID MAKE SENSE WITH MY KNOWLEDGE  OF FSU. One of my previous girlfriend, when she told that she was going abroad was not lying, because finally she invited me and i could see that she had planned the trip alone (we spent the trip together).
 
Do you have an agency?  There are many in Kharkov.  Many years ago I worked with All-Beautiful (small agency, owner named Helen-Elena).  They know thier women and they have excellent apartments.
THANK YOU, I KNOW ENOUGH PEOPLE IN THE PLACE OF KHARKOV to restart meetings, but it's not my goal.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 25, 2011, 09:40:49 AM
. . . . because, after two or three meetings he focuses on the first big ass and beauty face he meets . . . .

You mean some guys do like a big ass . . . . not counting some of the tribes in Africa?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 25, 2011, 09:45:38 AM
I don't count exactly but i have met like twenty girls in one year and half, kiss 5, have had 4 affairs (what i consider like an affair here in FSU don't include sex (having only with one), for marriage reason, prefering to practice the fucking stuff with locals).

An affair that does not include sex?
Kiss 5 and have 4 affairs.  So what is an affair in your definition?

And why don't you want to practice the fucking stuff with someone you might marry?  You plan to wait until after wedding ceremony for such??
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 25, 2011, 09:51:43 AM
Regarding the gal you met who you think is 'the one.'

First, I would tell her how you feel in very strong words.
Then push very hard for her to delay her trip to Moscow.

If she does, then great; you proceed on with her.

But if she doesn't; then I would take this as an indication (but not proof) that she really doesn't have the same feelings toward you.

Now, aside from the above; I think two meetings with the second being 6 hours is a little soon to be finding 'the one.'

I second mostly the advice that Gator has given to you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 11:07:26 AM
Regarding the gal you met who you think is 'the one.'

First, I would tell her how you feel in very strong words.
Then push very hard for her to delay her trip to Moscow.
Impossible she will meet her sister in Moscow, and she comes from Canada. A relation of 6 hours don't count in such family meeting, you must be realistic.

If she does, then great; you proceed on with her.

But if she doesn't; then I would take this as an indication (but not proof) that she really doesn't have the same feelings toward you.

Now, aside from the above; I think two meetings with the second being 6 hours is a little soon to be finding 'the one.'

You are absolute right, but i have no choice, i can just wait and meet her again later. It's why i'm so upset : i take enough vacation to spend enough time with the lady (remember the process i wanted --> see 10-15, screen a short list, spend second and third meetings --> elect one and spend the rest of my two full weeks with her)

I second mostly the advice that Gator has given to you.

Thank you for your post
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 11:32:39 AM
An affair that does not include sex?
Kiss 5 and have 4 affairs.  So what is an affair in your definition?

And why don't you want to practice the fucking stuff with someone you might marry?  You plan to wait until after wedding ceremony for such??

I mean for a so such important affair, i can delay sex, it will happen when it should happen. One of my mistake in the beginning had been to believe that the process was different in FSU for a marriage affair.
It is not of course, this is very important for a lot of guys that want to show and prove to the ladies their seriousness to know that they mustn't forget the basic rules between women and men,
and these rules don't change in the west and in the east.

And it is the point wich can help a lot of guys to avoid scammer or prodater. If a girl don't touch  you and don't come along you physically after a few days, she is not into you or she has specials problems. It's not different than the west, women stay women, and you MUST act as a man. But a lot of guys, for differents reasons forget it or are not capable to drive the relationship to escalate.

I authorize myself to delay sex but if it must naturally happen so i will let it happen. It happened with my second girlfriend in less than 30 hours. You perfectly (and I) know that you need to push the relation towards intimacy. The difference in FSU is i'm stronger as my mindset is that i'm not waiting anything about sex. So my frame is very strong and the girls need to work to attract me rather than I. To resume my head leads my balls, not the opposite.
To finish i have no such idea to prevent myself to have sex before a marriage. Of course i want to check also compatibility in this area, it's important, very important.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 12:15:02 PM
Ok now
what i'm going to do.

In accordance with what we have said during our meeting time.

The meeting could had happened earlier but the agency had changed the schedule, so our appointement happened close to her departure. So she knows that i've met .... many women.  It is that she told me today.

I don't want to describe for the moment the date but many signs of interest, of the 6 who showed IOI she was the most interested, and i'm pretty sure that i could have push the advantage to kiss, but i didn't realize that she was on the starting line so i taught that i had time.

She agrees and writed yesterday by mail to start the courtship, in accordance with what we discuss during our meeting time.

Today we don't meet and we don't see each other again as she is leaving tomorrow and she is also working. Ok it's not very cool for me. Ok you can think what you want.

She proposed me to see each other in july or august and go together in Crimea (wich is the place i told her i want to really visit, because i've never gone).
And she proposed to arrange her work  with the aim of spend vacation together.

She will be back around mid june from Moscow (is it true or false ?????)

I CANNOT COMMUNICATE her each hour my own insecurity, i just have to manage my own bads feelings, i said her what i think twice by phone and by SMS, it's enough.

A next meeting in july is possible for me. Five or six weeks to wait, what's the hell ? If this travel doesn't happen i can quickly restart in very good conditions a bunch of meetings in this city.

Now i'm going to :
Find and book a flight from Kharkov to my country for saturday or sunday.
Bought a train ticket to Kharkov.
Leave here after having my third and last lesson of russian.
Spend one or two days more in Kharkov, spending good time with people i like.
Return to the homeland and spend a quiet week of vacation and have some business to do too. Stop to spend money here in Dnepropetrovsk and keep it for later.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 25, 2011, 01:32:11 PM
Regarding the gal you met who you think is 'the one.'

First, I would tell her how you feel in very strong words.
Then push very hard for her to delay her trip to Moscow.

If she does, then great; you proceed on with her.

But if she doesn't; then I would take this as an indication (but not proof) that she really doesn't have the same feelings toward you.

Now, aside from the above; I think two meetings with the second being 6 hours is a little soon to be finding 'the one.'

I second mostly the advice that Gator has given to you.

+1
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 01:59:53 PM
"Now, aside from the above; I think two meetings with the second being 6 hours is a little soon to be finding 'the one.'

I absolutely agree. Finding the one till now. It's what i've said : "for the moment".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on May 25, 2011, 07:08:17 PM

Now i'm going to :
Find and book a flight from Kharkov to my country for saturday or sunday.
Bought a train ticket to Kharkov.
Leave here after having my third and last lesson of russian.
Spend one or two days more in Kharkov, spending good time with people i like.
Return to the homeland and spend a quiet week of vacation and have some business to do too. Stop to spend money here in Dnepropetrovsk and keep it for later.

I admire your commitment to the women headed to Moscow.  What do you tell her?  If it were me, I would inform her of my decision in few words WITHOUT looking like a begging puppy dog. 
 
Crimea is a delightful place.  If you wait for her until July and August, she is more than the "Woman of the Moment"   She is the woman of your summer of 2011.  Hopefully, she is as good as you think (or hope) she might be.
 
Are you sure?  I recall once passing on a ménage à trois in Kiev in 2002 with a 29-yo beauty.  I passed because I was looking for wifey material and she wanted only to have a good time and explore her attraction towards women.   I still think about that opportunity even though it is long gone.  And each time I  kick myself in the ass. :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 25, 2011, 08:38:11 PM

I recall once passing on a ménage à trois in Kiev in 2002 with a 29-yo beauty.  I passed because I was looking for wifey material and she wanted only to have a good time and explore her attraction towards women.   I still think about that opportunity even though it is long gone.  And each time I kick myself in the ass.

And, as well you should (the kick that is).
Looking for wifey material is no excuse to pass this up.
You didn't have to choose her as the wifey.
However, what did you know about the third party?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 09:14:51 PM
Hey Buddies
We perfectly know that the adventure can be not rewarding and that you have to forge ahead, and you do it sometimes almost blind.

It's why i stopped to visit one because i succeeded one time and failed one time. But the failure let me more bad memorize than the success.

I mean, with experience, you try to work strategically,  by using the road wich offers you the better chances statiscally.
But there is a moment where you are almost bling and you have to make the move.

In this case feeling chemistry (AND SHE gave me big IOI (not only big but many)) , guessing her as woman having later the willing to follow the man, Checking she knows what a relation abroad means, her explaining me for wich reasons she wants such a thing (non materialistic reasons), knowing a good english allowing from the scratch a good understanding and so better chance of succes in time .... MEANING SHE HAS POTENTIAL for marriage (perhaps she will not be the righ woman for me , it's possible; only time will let me to know) I MUST MAKE THE MOVE.

MAKE THE MOVE is to say : you are the ONE, and i will courtship you as the one.
You have two possibilites after :
1/ Courtship her and only her
2/ Make multiple games

Danger of 2/ if she smells, if she feels one sec that you are playing, you are potentially dead. Because she will loose instantly some or many interest for you
If you play 2/ you must play a perfect game (During one travel, visiting two ladies in the same country, I changed the tag of my suitcase by an other to let Miss 2 believe that i was coming directly from my homeland).

As neither of two invest themself deeply, i mean totally (read again what EM has written in her site) the relationship is going nowhere. And when you enter in the UNIQUE mode the girl must follow as soon as possible, if not the relationship is not well balanced.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 09:44:44 PM

I admire your commitment to the women headed to Moscow.  What do you tell her?  If it were me, I would inform her of my decision in few words WITHOUT looking like a begging puppy dog. 

I tell her : i need to know if we meet or not, because it doesn't make any sense now for me to stay in this city. I'm not a newbie and i had had already some girlfriends and i know you can be the one. But now i NEED to know if we meet or not because i must reschedule all : train to Kharkov, new plane and flat and taxi

Her
Answer : no meeting possible.

I told her ok, i'm going to move to Harkov to see people i like (she knows that i have some acquaintances and of course it's a big social proof in favor of me, letting little suspens like (this man is telling the truth or does he have an other one to see in Kharkov ???) and i will return in my country saturday or sunday.

Then she proposed me to stay in contact, meet in july or august, take time to arrange vacation, she proposed me to go in my favorite dream location (IOI : she wants to go where you dream to go).
 

Crimea is a delightful place.  If you wait for her until July and August, she is more than the "Woman of the Moment"   She is the woman of your summer of 2011.  Hopefully, she is as good as you think (or hope) she might be.


 

Are you sure?  I recall once passing on a ménage à trois in Kiev in 2002 with a 29-yo beauty.  I passed because I was looking for wifey material and she wanted only to have a good time and explore her attraction towards women.   I still think about that opportunity even though it is long gone.  And each time I  kick myself in the ass. :deadhorse:

Time will tell us, i'm not Madame Irma (famous clairvoyante in my country), thank Gator.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on May 26, 2011, 05:40:47 AM
MAKE THE MOVE is to say : you are the ONE, and i will courtship you as the one.
You have two possibilites after :
1/ Courtship her and only her
2/ Make multiple games

Danger of 2/ if she smells, if she feels one sec that you are playing, you are potentially dead. Because she will loose instantly some or many interest for you
If you play 2/ you must play a perfect game (During one travel, visiting two ladies in the same country, I changed the tag of my suitcase by an other to let Miss 2 believe that i was coming directly from my homeland).

Can't really offer you advise (not that you are looking for some) as to what to do now. We here reading this has not been privvy to the discussions you and the lady has had, the body language and so on, so it's impossible to have a strong opinion on that.
 
So it is, as you say, two choices. Either be dead honest about your intentions, desires and plans or be a player. As you know, I'm the former as it's just not "me" to do it any other way. Being deceitful leaves a bad taste in my mouth, not only considering her feelings, but my self worth as well.
 
I don't pass moral judgement though, as each man must answer for himself and stand by his actions. But aside from the moral aspect, I also think it is very difficult to keep her in the dark, if you have something to hide. My opinion on FSU women is that they tend to be rather jealous and therefore ask you questions with a specific reason in mind; to find out if you're real and not playing games and has only her in your mind, IF you have suggested so.
 
Have you and the lady made an agreement to meet in Crimea in August? Perhaps you can have some faith and wait for her, meet her there and spend much more time to get to know her. Then IF it doesn't work, you can try and get some dates with others while still there. But only AFTER it is apparent things doesn't work out with this lady.
 
But perhaps it will. Perhaps she is the woman of your dreams and vice versa. Then being a player and risk losing all that would really be a tragedy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 11:35:04 AM

Can't really offer you advise (not that you are looking for some) as to what to do now. We here reading this has not been privvy to the discussions you and the lady has had, the body language and so on, so it's impossible to have a strong opinion on that.
 
So it is, as you say, two choices. Either be dead honest about your intentions, desires and plans or be a player. As you know, I'm the former as it's just not "me" to do it any other way. Being deceitful leaves a bad taste in my mouth, not only considering her feelings, but my self worth as well.
 
I don't pass moral judgement though, as each man must answer for himself and stand by his actions. But aside from the moral aspect, I also think it is very difficult to keep her in the dark, if you have something to hide. My opinion on FSU women is that they tend to be rather jealous and therefore ask you questions with a specific reason in mind; to find out if you're real and not playing games and has only her in your mind, IF you have suggested so.
 
Have you and the lady made an agreement to meet in Crimea in August? Perhaps you can have some faith and wait for her, meet her there and spend much more time to get to know her. Then IF it doesn't work, you can try and get some dates with others while still there. But only AFTER it is apparent things doesn't work out with this lady.
 
But perhaps it will. Perhaps she is the woman of your dreams and vice versa. Then being a player and risk losing all that would really be a tragedy.

Really i like you Natural
 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
I cannot myself better explain my mindset, you wrote it PERFECTLY, on each clue.

And yes SHE's proposed by herself to go together in july or in august. How is it possible to have more ? And she want to please me because i have said that i never visited Crimean and i would do so much. In my opinion it's time to calm down (to be alone, in such situation is VERY difficult, you have a lot of doubt : YES we are human !!!)
I"m a player but there is moment to be and a moment to engage yourself in an UNIQUE way, wich of course is the road of the success, elseif you are a compulsory  sex oriented dater or non capable of any engagement.

I'm reading again your post Natural and it's absolutely PERFECT. You understand me on the right sense.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 26, 2011, 12:03:21 PM
No, I was told that it means "shame about the face".

Dude, it is not boat race. It is Butter face.
 
I'm going through all this pages because it is slow here.
 
All I can say so far is: Sick.
 
Get back to you guys when I'm done reading.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 26, 2011, 12:08:48 PM

Dude, it is not boat race. It is Butter face.
 
I'm going through all this pages because it is slow here.
 
All I can say so far is: Sick.
 
Get back to you guys when I'm done reading.

No, the saying is "Nice legs but shame about the boat race"

which means:  "Nice legs but shame about the face"

It is cockney slang, and was verified by NickNick who is from that region.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 26, 2011, 12:11:32 PM
Really i like you Natural
 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
I cannot myself better explain my mindset, you wrote it PERFECTLY, on each clue.

And yes SHE's proposed by herself to go together in july or in august. How is it possible to have more ? And she want to please me because i have said that i never visited Crimean and i would do so much. In my opinion it's time to calm down (to be alone, in such situation is VERY difficult, you have a lot of doubt : YES we are human !!!)
I"m a player but there is moment to be and a moment to engage yourself in an UNIQUE way, wich of course is the road of the success, elseif you are a compulsory  sex oriented dater or non capable of any engagement.

I'm reading again your post Natural and it's absolutely PERFECT. You understand me on the right sense.

Relax and enjoy the moment!  If it is meant to be your wishes will come true and you will be together with her in Crimea in July/August!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 26, 2011, 12:59:18 PM
You mean some guys do like a big ass . . . . not counting some of the tribes in Africa?

Americans and maybe Brits love bony asses. Most of the civilized world loves a nice dramatic ass.
 
Almost there.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 26, 2011, 01:35:39 PM
Wow. Sick. As in, Pat are you a CPA? My goodness, the detail on the planning. Sick. (Good sick, just in case our French ami is not aware of our idioms.)
 
At one point I was going to agree with Mendy regarding the Metrosexual comment. Now I have a better picture. Which brings me to a comment to Patagonie. Too much emphasis to the clothing can give you the wrong portrait with the ladies. People in UA are obssessed with designer clothing. I should say, the players not interested in serious relationships are the ones obssessed. This is why I was going to agree with Mendy's assessment. It can give the ladies the impression of very a superficial man. Specially the shoes. Nice shoes, BTW. A couple of years ago the fad in UA were elongated shoes that would curve up at the tip a la Aladdin. Mercifully, the fad quickly disappeared.
 
Now, let's go to the "meaty" part. Here is a good chance for you to develop something with #one. If she is really going to Moscow or not is irrelevant. My take is that she wants to see how serious you are regarding her. (Ergo, my clothing comments)
 
IF you are serious about her, the rules of the game changed. It's your move now.
 
And then again, I can be completely wrong.
 
@ Gator. I didn't have to kick myself in the ass. I knew better.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 02:12:50 PM
Relax and enjoy the moment!  If it is meant to be your wishes will come true and you will be together with her in Crimea in July/August!!
Thank you very much Rubicon, everybody needs little chance to success, i hope the stars will shine.
But if these vacations really happen,  :P 8) ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 02:28:25 PM
Wow. Sick. As in, Pat are you a CPA? My goodness, the detail on the planning. Sick. (Good sick, just in case our French ami is not aware of our idioms.)
 
At one point I was going to agree with Mendy regarding the Metrosexual comment. Now I have a better picture. Which brings me to a comment to Patagonie. Too much emphasis to the clothing can give you the wrong portrait with the ladies. People in UA are obssessed with designer clothing. I should say, the players not interested in serious relationships are the ones obssessed. This is why I was going to agree with Mendy's assessment. It can give the ladies the impression of very a superficial man. Specially the shoes. Nice shoes, BTW. A couple of years ago the fad in UA were elongated shoes that would curve up at the tip a la Aladdin. Mercifully, the fad quickly disappeared.
 
Now, let's go to the "meaty" part. Here is a good chance for you to develop something with #one. If she is really going to Moscow or not is irrelevant. My take is that she wants to see how serious you are regarding her. (Ergo, my clothing comments)
 
IF you are serious about her, the rules of the game changed. It's your move now.

YOUR ARE RIGHT, there is a time to play and there is a time to love, i choiced to move, and I. I'm in Kharkov now, making an halt, and in 29 hours my plane will take off to my homeland. This is not superficiality, this a good sense in thinking, a knowledge of yourself and other people, the balls of making quick decision, and the congrence is to do it, assessing in accordance with your owns values and your goals, inconvenients and advantages of your decision, but with responsability.
 
And then again, I can be completely wrong.
 
@ Gator. I didn't have to kick myself in the ass. I knew better.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 02:30:59 PM
CPA ?
you mean
Certified Public Accountant ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 26, 2011, 02:36:38 PM
YOUR ARE RIGHT, there is a time to play and there is a time to love, i choiced to move, and I. I'm in Kharkov now, making an halt, and in 29 hours my plane will take off to my homeland. This is not superficiality, this a good sense in thinking, a knowledge of yourself and other people, the balls of making quick decision, and the congrence is to do it, assessing in accordance with your owns values and your goals, inconvenients and advantages of your decision, but with responsability.


Aw, I was hoping that you were going to make an attempt. But, you are the one who talked to her not me. I wish you luck.
 
BTW, if you are in the city, take the Metro to Pushkinska Station. Cafe Paris is off the Metro. Nice place.
 
This is a nice info site in English: http://www.kharkovinfo.com/ (http://www.kharkovinfo.com/)
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 26, 2011, 02:37:10 PM
CPA ?
you mean
Certified Public Accountant ?

That would be a yes.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 02:49:07 PM

Aw, I was hoping that you were going to make an attempt. But, you are the one who talked to her not me. I wish you luck.
 
BTW, if you are in the city, take the Metro to Pushkinska Station. Cafe Paris is off the Metro. Nice place.
 
This is a nice info site in English: http://www.kharkovinfo.com/ (http://www.kharkovinfo.com/)
It's a good idea, why not tomorrow. But if i remember on the plan it's perpendicular to Lenina Square, am i correct ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 02:51:19 PM

Aw, I was hoping that you were going to make an attempt. But, you are the one who talked to her not me. I wish you luck.
 
BTW, if you are in the city, take the Metro to Pushkinska Station. Cafe Paris is off the Metro. Nice place.
 
This is a nice info site in English: http://www.kharkovinfo.com/ (http://www.kharkovinfo.com/)
An attempt ? To meet others women  ? you mean ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 03:50:44 PM
For the trip, and to make things clear :

Considering that my seventh meeting can be my match, but as she was leaving  Dnepropetrovsk, i've decided to return to my country by having a halt in Harkov, where i have some acquaintance. Inded Pegasus airlines (thank ManLooking) provides cheaps flights near my city. Wich is convenient for me.

Now it's like a bet, we will see if her interest will endure or not.
In this case we would schedule vacations in Crimean, her proposition. It's possible for me to perform it since july, wich means around five weeks to wait, wich is not a big deal.
If it's doesn't work i should restart from the beginning as any newbie (with my previous experience however,  :P ;D )

I will choice again Dnepropetrovsk, considering not having fish all fishes in this city. The logistic is very good for me here and i found my mark. And i have had good time during my three russian lessons with a young lady teacher. (so now i enjoy to try to understand what is wrote in cyrillic, wich is pretty much interesting for me because my life is improving on a daily basis, outcomes are appreciables)

Now i'm making an internal work to cut her from my mind, in the way to protect me.  This is not an easy job. Better to focus on my business and rest for the second week of vacation. The communication will restart mid june really as she is in Russia now.

Pat
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 10:36:48 PM

That would be a yes.
No i'm not Muzh. Probably i try to bring a more scientific approach about human things, to decrease (to try) the part of subjectivity.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 27, 2011, 08:32:43 AM
An attempt ? To meet others women  ? you mean ?

Sorry I couldn't get back to you yesterday. No, I mean the girl who said she was visiting her relative in Moscow.
 
Also, you are correct the cafe is perpendicular to Lenina.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 08:35:34 AM
I arrived yesterday at the end of the afternoon after five hours of train with a lady in her 60's who only speaks italian. So with my french, english, very little russian and little arabic, and little spanish we arranged our time in the wagon.
Someone came to pick me up and i had arrenged a two nights renting for a one bedroom flat.
After a little lunch in an under ground asian restaurant my contact came and we spent little time to chit-chat together.
Today big promenade with a little lunch in my favorite restaurant : a self service restaurant wich deliver you a SHIOTT of 50 grns. After i headed to Sumskaya and made a halt in a nice kaфe enjoying the sun and taking some photos of the queens who were walking along the sidewalk.
I took the direction of the park, just in front of the terrace and finally i found what i was searching for a long time : the delphinium stadium.
My god. Really what a delicious afternoon ! I've never seen dolphins in real.
Really professional and totally amazing. Really if your lady is coming with you go for a tour in the delphinium stadium, and if you have childrens of course you should !

Typical event on Kharkov's sidewalks and often in FSU :
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 27, 2011, 08:40:00 AM
No i'm not Muzh. Probably i try to bring a more scientific approach about human things, to decrease (to try) the part of subjectivity.

I'm sorry Patagonie, but it is being lost in translation. I'll try to refrain from idioms and other jokes. My bad.
 
The CPA comment was made because of how precise you were in your preparation, not your profession.
 
Also, I just read that you are considering the lady I referred as #1. Is that correct?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 08:43:08 AM
Dolphiniums, surfing
You need to see it to believe it

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 27, 2011, 08:43:25 AM
I arrived yesterday at the end of the afternoon after five hours of train with a lady in her 60's who only speaks italian. So with my french, english, very little russian and little arabic, and little spanish we arranged our time in the wagon.
Someone came to pick me up and i had arrenged a two nights renting for a one bedroom flat.
After a little lunch in an under ground asian restaurant my contact came and we spent little time to chit-chat together.
Today big promenade with a little lunch in my favorite restaurant : a self service restaurant wich deliver you a SHIOTT of 50 grns. After i headed to Sumskaya and made a halt in a nice kaфe enjoying the sun and taking some photos of the queens who were walking along the sidewalk.
I took the direction of the park, just in front of the terrace and finally i found what i was searching for a long time : the delphinium stadium.
My god. Really what a delicious afternoon ! I've never seen dolphins in real.
Really professional and totally amazing. Really if your lady is coming with you go for a tour in the delphinium stadium, and if you have childrens of course you should !

Typical event on Kharkov's sidewalks and often in FSU :

Where was this pic taken? It looks very familiar.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 08:45:10 AM
The stadium


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 08:47:02 AM
Special FSB Patrol :


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 08:50:22 AM
Ukrainian acrobatic team :



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 08:53:47 AM

Sorry I couldn't get back to you yesterday. No, I mean the girl who said she was visiting her relative in Moscow.
 
Also, you are correct the cafe is perpendicular to Lenina.
Hello Muzh,
You are correct i would make an attempt with this lady.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 08:54:52 AM

Where was this pic taken? It looks very familiar.

Sumskaya of course
 half a mile before Lenina Square
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 08:56:36 AM
Special FSB Patrol :

you cannot see really, because the quality of the photo is too low,
but there are two knifes inside the high heels,  8) ;D :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 08:58:22 AM

I'm sorry Patagonie, but it is being lost in translation. I'll try to refrain from idioms and other jokes. My bad.
 
The CPA comment was made because of how precise you were in your preparation, not your profession.
 
Also, I just read that you are considering the lady I referred as #1. Is that correct?

Yes Muzh the lady you referred is the number one, and anyways i deleted the six others (saw in Dnepropetrovsk)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 27, 2011, 08:59:37 AM
Yes Muzh the lady you referred is the number one, and anyways i delete the six others (saw in Dnepropetrovsk)

Atlichna!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 09:09:34 AM

I'm sorry Patagonie, but it is being lost in translation. I'll try to refrain from idioms and other jokes. My bad.
 
The CPA comment was made because of how precise you were in your preparation, not your profession.
 
Also, I just read that you are considering the lady I referred as #1. Is that correct?

Yes i'm precise, and we all the material i will have, i could analyze later, later
because i need to cold now. In fact in such human situation you need to let time happen,  to take a step back.
Often we focus on our belly, but there is an other road wich is the empathic. This one is to go under the skin of the other person, and try to understand her demeanor, with theirs doubts and his knowledge of the situation.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 27, 2011, 09:22:59 AM
Yes i'm precise, and we all the material i will have, i could analyze later, later
because i need to cold now. In fact in such human situation you need to let time happen,  to take a step back.
Often we focus on our belly, but there is an other road wich is the empathic. This one is to go under the skin of the other person, and try to understand her demeanor, with theirs doubts and his knowledge of the situation.

Well Mon Ami, this sounds like a plan of attack.
 
Carry on.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on May 27, 2011, 11:37:33 AM
Often we focus on our belly...

Do you mean to ponder about the lint collecting in your stomach navel (meaning to relax and not take anything in life to be very serious) OR to go with one's gut feeling (intuition)
 
 
Quote
This one is to go under the skin of the other person, and try to understand her demeanor, with theirs doubts and his knowledge of the situation.

 :D  In English to get under somone's skin means to pester.  I assume you mean what we call peeling the layers of an onion to understand what makes someone tick (to rest amidst her spiritual mystique - far more profound than her aura).  Such takes time for which their is no substitute.  I hope that it happens in Crimea this summer.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 03:02:28 PM
Before the take off i would introduce you to an interpret-translator who works in Kharkov, she speaks english, french, russian and ukrainian. She has a car and make the usual tuff : transportation, translation, interpreter and finding a flat. Ask her. She is honest and prices are very correct :  www.ukraine-go.com (http://www.ukraine-go.com/).
Her name Olga, you can rely on her.

Pat as soon
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 27, 2011, 04:39:00 PM
:D  In English to get under somone's skin means to pester.
Cole Porter's intepretation ;):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1AHec7sfZ8[/youtube]
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 05:31:43 PM

Do you mean to ponder about the lint collecting in your stomach navel (meaning to relax and not take anything in life to be very serious) OR to go with one's gut feeling (intuition)
 
 
 :D  In English to get under somone's skin means to pester.  I assume you mean what we call peeling the layers of an onion to understand what makes someone tick (to rest amidst her spiritual mystique - far more profound than her aura).  Such takes time for which their is no substitute.  I hope that it happens in Crimea this summer.

Thank you for this important precision. To pester. I try to improve my english so i enjoy any help, in particular with idioms and so on.
"
Do you mean to ponder about the lint collecting in your stomach navel (meaning to relax and not take anything in life to be very serious) OR to go with one's gut feeling (intuition)"
I rather would mean something like "selfish" (don't understand others behaviors)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 28, 2011, 03:27:18 PM
Hi Everybody.
I took a flight very late at Kharkov, 3:15 ! By Pegasus Airlines, wich is fine for your money, but less for your health. In Istambul i found a fellow citizen. I was expecting to sleep a little  in the airport, before the next connection, but it hadn't been possible, as we spent our whole time, from 5:00 to 10:00 to chit chat with no interruption.
Now i can guess this guy, on his low 60's has been making a WOVO in my opinion. What did he said for his first meeting with FSU : quite a shock, he told me ! He is outmart and funny, in good shape, with an hansome face for his age. He had and continues to perform humanitarian aid task, which is showing his generousness. Behind the social convention i guessed a real interest for FSU women and i let him my phone number, explaining  that i have some contacts in my adress book if he is interested, He is really the sort of guy, divorced, free, kind, correct earning, toughful, who will be a good match for a FSU on her 40's. He made me laugh by telling me that in the airport a gorgious FSU womea on her 40 exactly stared him three times and finally she moved to come by him and seat just next to him. I asked him, and ?
He didn't dare speak to her !  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 28, 2011, 06:55:53 PM
Hi Everybody.
I took a flight very late at Kharkov, 3:15 ! By Pegasus Airlines, wich is fine for your money, but less for your health.

I flew on Pegasus 4 times.  I didn't notice any health problems.  Or were you  referring to the hours?  Was it 3:15 AM that you left Kharkiv?

How did you like the preflight safety film that showed on the TV monitors?   :)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 29, 2011, 01:04:17 AM
I flew on Pegasus 4 times.  I didn't notice any health problems.  Or were you  referring to the hours?  Was it 3:15 AM that you left Kharkiv?

How did you like the preflight safety film that showed on the TV monitors?   :)

 :ROFL:
I mean my health problem,  i found this sort of flight very tiring because you cannot really sleep.

About the preflight safety film, it's the first time i see this type of. It's really very cute and anyways the best way to interest childrens about the safety issues.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 29, 2011, 01:18:26 AM
Prior to a flight have your Doctor prescribe you some Lorazapam/Atavan.  Just do not mix it with any alcohol at all.  You will probably sleep like a baby.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 29, 2011, 01:50:01 AM
Prior to a flight have your Doctor prescribe you some Lorazapam/Atavan.  Just do not mix it with any alcohol at all.  You will probably sleep like a baby.
Yes i have always this sort of things when i travel in FSU. But the time window to get it was too short during the first flight because in itself the flight was very short (and you know that you will be interrupted by the traditionnal "here is your meal". I didn't want to look like Frankestein at this moment. LOL)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 29, 2011, 03:00:47 PM
I know that you are waiting this post for a long time : :popcorn: >:D
 
I mean :
 The date with Blue sweeties
I've examined all the material i have. I have some 20 minutes of recorded material, included some meeting time (wich i got by chance)
I know that you are polite and shy on this forum, and anybody asked me really what happened during the date, so here it is :

 
Don't forget this girl was on my top four in initial list. She scores, in my opinion 8.85
Really tall, shy caracter at first meeting, reach 6'4 easily with high heels. She is really crunchy with a side which push you to play  « i will protect you honey anyways, don't worry, i'm the man».
She seems to have a clear idea of what she wants to get in life, focusing on human beings, wich for me he is a proof of maturity. I can feel this person has spent time in the western life and she is not naive about the good and bad side of our westerns societies.

I asked simple question like "which type of quality are you expecting from a man ?", she answered : "chemistry with my man". She focuses really on human sides.

There is always an excitation around the chase when the hunter is looking a pretty bet. But when you want to get married and as soon you have the choice in your local country and in FSU why to not be interested by who you really want to be with IN THE LIMIT OF YOUR COURT. I feel my court enough wide  to welcome her. So i should have no "buyer remorse" with her.

You need to be comfortable, you need to be proud of you wife, everywhere, anytime. With her it's exactly what i felt, wich wasn't  not true with the six others women. With  the previous one there was always something wrong, something which hold back me to plan myself with them.
I thaught : in specials odds, i know that i would not be comfortable and proud of this one : so forget her !
Or
 i can guess she will be like a big mama in the kitchen with no real other connection with life : boring !


The first meeting happened inside a restaurant near to the agency.
I was arriving from my famous dentist Юлия with 17 minutes late after more than two hours of fight, and a quarter of minutes had been needed to success the escape
Arriving in the agency were present : my date, the director and at least two interpreters. I began to tell to the director : "now i shine like a new penny" wich make laugh everybody in the room given the big mouth i was having at this second with always a huge sensitivity, full of pain each time my tongue brush against my teeth.
After a kind introduction by the director, we left the office and went to the restaurant, alone as my lady has at least very good english skill. She speaks with an russian accent, a little too fast and she doesn't articulate enough in my opinion. Before leaving, i scream 'clunchy' wich had been our joke in the agency as agencies girls are always struggle to know where are these damned key, i cannot prevent myself to scream "clunchies" before i enter or before i leave.
Gilrs usually gigles a lot each time.
During the walk, between the office and the restaurant, i began to talk, leading the conversation. I'm really trained to this sort of things. I explained her that i like her city with this so special island wich mean that you can feel really yourself really quickly in vacation. After a short question about her and her family i talked about mine and about languages, enfeterring directly on babies and theirs futur skills in language and what i want for them about this issue. She said that she want one or two perpaps. In this occasion i insist by focussing the attention of the girl by saying : two ? so  please make it in one shot ith me please, and so we will  be free and can focus about love.
She complimented me about my good english (sign of interest 1)

I continued about acquaintance and friendship letting know her that friendship means a real strong relation. I told her quickly that i have a lot of acquaintances.

We arrived in the restaurant and we sat. She leaned in her seat (IOI 2), all the time.
During the conversation, she touched her hair, at least one time (IOI 3).
 
Staring you secretly whereas that you are not discussing with her (IOI 4)
Dilated pupils (IOI5)
When i asked to put her phone number in my phone she lets her fingers touching mine (IOI6).
I don't remerber but after a discussion i placed a high five and she answer to it
 
And when we want to go to the center as she had something to do after of more than 2 hours of dating, she suddenly proposed to meet at 8 as she has an appointement in little time. As i was free i agreed. This meaned a second full date in the evening (IOI7).
The evening date happened at 8:40, she arrived few minutes late. When she was arriving close to me i was talking to my english teacher for our next meeting. I could see the disappointement on her face when she heard me speaking about schedule for an appointement (IOI8) . I proposed her to make a boat ballad on the Dnepr, which of course is very romantical. She agreed and we began to walk towards the Dnepr. I proposed her to catch a cab, she denied. Few minutes after she missed the step of the sidewalk and i quicly help her with my hand. Two seconds after, when i retired my hand, she seemed disappointed (IOI9)
She stopped few times after and begin to shake her shoe. I worry about her guessing perhaps she hurted her ankle, which is very common with high heels. She denied, and as i proposed again to catch a cab she denied again. She wanted to walk with me.

Unfortunately there was no boat available this evening, and we agreed to walk along the river. I showed her by grabbing her arm what is a french promenade and how to do it. After two hundreds meters we decided to enter in a restaurant, along the river. When we were entering,  i thaught, wow, very beautiful. And wow Pat you can prepare the big notes guy because the bill promise to be $$$$$.
Waiting the command, i begin to play with the little towels, which existed in three colors. Mixing all i said : imagine with these colors a flag for a country. She played quickly (IOI10), and she drop of her mouth a "you are so cute Pat" when i used two towels dressed on the table and put in my hands saying "this is your boat and this is mine, now Blue Sweetie, where are we going ?" (IOI11).
During the restaurant of course she leaned in and smile everytime.
When we finished to eat i asked the bill. I needed ten seconds to understand really what i was reading when i got it.

less than 200 grivnas !

Already now when i'm typing this i cannot believe it. less than 200 grivnas, roughly 25 bucks ! This lady takes care of my money, and yes she had grab a bit before the meeting.
After we went to the pharmacy to buy some medicine for me because i was always suffering from pain.
Just arrived on the sidewalk she grabbed my arm, style french promenade. (IOI12), after 20 seconds, i found more convenient to take her hand. So hand in hand.
In the pharmacy, as i was struggling with notes, she opened her wallet to give the right money (IOI13).
After the pharmacy we decided to find a bar. We spent a long time, hand in hand to find one. Finally we got into in karakoe bar, almost empty, less than six customers with us.

We sat side by side, on the same coach. After few minutes the music was entertaining i decided to stand up and to open the dancefloor.
I really like to dance and it is not a problem for me, i'm absolutely not shy. So let's go for the show.
She was staring me with a big smile. I invited her to come and she came ! (IOI14). I made differents spins in front of her, right and left spins, i could move my shoulders in a spin en a sense and just after the  opposite  sens
We returned on the coach and i began to move with the music. She did the same (IOI15). I can now took her shoulder, let my hand on her thigh.
When a slow began i invited her and she came. We started but unfortunately the music speed up. So we had to stop. But fortunately the DJ understood his mistake as an other couple had joined us and want to dance a slow too.
So we began a slow together. She was not in the tempo, probably having not practicing at all. (but now fellows, she is in the hand of the most famous slow dancer : me  :flowers: )
(Awarded in 1984, 1989 and for the longest kiss in 1997)
 :ROFL:

She wanted to put both her arms around my neck but i prefered to lead the dance as i wanted and stay in the empire style slow, like hand left with her right hand and let her left hand aroung my shoulder while my right one was in her back.

I whispered in her ear :" follow me, just follow me". She slowed down.

She began to float in my hands, i can feel her like flying. I keep her in a sort of cloud where her partner touch her lightly and wrap her totally, and she was wrapped. My right hand went up and down her back, letting her feel slight contact or strong pressure along her spine. She was free, i was never asking the contact but we were like magnets and sometimes this contact happened. She was totally in accordance with me, in this sort of rose cloud,  where you want to escape from all reals worlds, just wanting to float in a dream, and either I.
After the slow we sat again. When she spoke to me she leaned totally and her head came along my shoulder and near to my ear. Her mouth was only far from few centimeters of mine, and it had been not difficult to start the first kiss, but i was not knowing that she had to leave the city soon, and so i was not in hurry.
We danced again, now i was sure either her ankle had been hurted or she had sore feet, but anyways she wanted to dance, to enjoy, to live and to move on the dancefloor, share my energy.

Finally around 1 pm she needed to come back at home.
I payed a bill of 15O grv and tip of 50.

 Really, girls who are reading this post : please i know you have a difficult task : i mean not bring the man in an ugly place and not send him in a five stars too, but believe me if you find the right balance and bring him in a cheap place (between 100 and 300 grv) and additionnaly this place looks smart, i can tell you that you are scoring precious points in the mind of the guy.
If a man don't care at all of his money, either is very rich or not, means he is stupid or he is trying to buy you. Which is not a good future for you anyways.

 I decided to offer my protection and my help by bringing her in front of her building. Funny she was living near to my place of 800 feets.
During the lasts seconds i hold her both hands saying : i had a great time tonight, i like when you are near to me and i want to know you better. This is my qualification.

She was totally staring me. I kiss her right hand using the Old french style and i returned to my flat.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 29, 2011, 06:22:42 PM
After that writeup Pat, many of the women here will be swooning.
And many of the guys also.   8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 29, 2011, 06:39:26 PM
After that writeup Pat, many of the women here will be swooning.
And many of the guys also.   8)

+100  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: 8) :applaud: :luv:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 29, 2011, 09:41:55 PM
Pat the Romance Novelist!!  Magnifique!  Merveilleux!

 :couple:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 30, 2011, 11:41:04 AM
Pat, excellent story.


However, you didn't fall for the old "almost fell so grab me and hold my hand" trick. Just kidding.


You are doing good.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 30, 2011, 11:49:35 AM
you cannot see really, because the quality of the photo is too low,
but there are two knifes inside the high heels,  8) ;D :D

Is that a joke or were you serious?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 30, 2011, 05:11:35 PM
Is that a joke or were you serious?
Rubicon dear buddy
It's a joke of course
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 31, 2011, 06:45:50 AM
Everybody thank for yours compliments
Thank to you now i know a new verb : to swoon.

Next post i'm going to tackle the sad side of inside feelings because life, and in particular the FSU adventure, is really like a mountain hiking, sometimes you feel easy and enjoy, and just after you struggle and are exhausted, almost ready to come back to the car to stop all.
This is the part perhaps the less known of this adventure, but surely not the less important (i would have already done it but my post had been lost after a reset of the computer  :deadhorse: <-- computer) , because we are not always warriors and i don't care of the image or the picture i can convey through my trip.  With my weakness and my strenghs i try to do with who am i.
I've many things to tell you yet and we will speak about, in connection with the trip, my previous GF and the atmosphere around the foreigner system/cash machine, which, in my opinion is the most important plant of failure between your goal and your future wife. (Professionals in named label and private as separate operator).
Kindly Pat.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 31, 2011, 12:52:01 PM
Thanks Pat for your excellent observations, keep em coming!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 31, 2011, 02:53:44 PM
Interesting information :
i've come from my dentist and we checked together the work which has been done one week ago in Dnepropetrovsk. Excellent, the canal had been correctly cleaned and the second teeth had been correctly cured and filled with compound.
So yes technicaly dentists are late of 20 years but they are good in their practice (provided that you meet a good one of course). Total price : if i don't make any mistake : 860 grv. With two radios : one before and one to check at the end.
As you know it can be a very good plan to schedule with your travel some appointements to repare your tooth, it can pay a large part of your expenses.  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 31, 2011, 03:03:55 PM
As you know it can be a very good plan to schedule with your travel some appointements to repare your tooth, it can pay a large part of your expenses.

This has been discussed in several earlier threads.
Some say good things about dentists in FSU and some have had horror stories.
Myself, I wouldn't do it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on May 31, 2011, 03:06:18 PM
Interesting information :
i've come from my dentist and we checked together the work which has been done one week ago in Dnepropetrovsk. Excellent, the canal had been correctly cleaned and the second teeth had been correctly cured and filled with compound.
So yes technicaly dentists are late of 20 years but they are good in their practice (provided that you meet a good one of course). Total price : if i don't make any mistake : 860 grv.
As you know it can be a very good plan to schedule with your travel some appointements to repare your tooth, it can pay a large part of your expenses.  ;D


Shortly after my wife's arrival to the US she had a severe toothache. Unfortunately, she wasn't on my dental plan at the time because of open enrollment limitations. Silly me I only bought a separate medical insurance not dental when she arrived, so anyway, I took her to my dentist who is quite good and capable. He wouldn't touch it and suggested another, a specialist in another city to deal with the problem. The main problem being the glue/cement used in two root canals that were inadequately performed was so hard and unlike anything used in the west. It required special procedures to open up, correct the root canal and fix the teeth


My wife was floored. The root canals were performed less than a year earlier and by the best dentist in Tomsk. She paid $800 total for both teeth. It took $4000 to correct it.


Hopefully it works out for the best for you Pat but don't count those savings just yet.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 31, 2011, 03:12:53 PM

Shortly after my wife's arrival to the US she had a severe toothache. Unfortunately, she wasn't on my dental plan at the time because of open enrollment limitations. Silly me I only bought a separate medical insurance not dental when she arrived, so anyway, I took her to my dentist who is quite good and capable. He wouldn't touch it and suggested another, a specialist in another city to deal with the problem. The main problem being the glue/cement used in two root canals that were inadequately performed was so hard and unlike anything used in the west. It required special procedures to open up, correct the root canal and fix the teeth


My wife was floored. The root canals were performed less than a year earlier and by the best dentist in Tomsk. She paid $800 total for both teeth. It took $4000 to correct it.


Hopefully it works out for the best for you Pat but don't count those savings just yet.
Thank you for this valuable information and sorry for you for this extra expense. I would give more information later about the cement used in Dnepropetrovsk as i asked a metal crown.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 01, 2011, 04:39:26 PM
 Hi
I don't know you, but me, each time after my return from FSU i always feel sad during few days, and in particular each time i've had a promising relation.
The dechirure is something particular, and more when you are leaving a lady in the beginning of the relationship. It depends of the solidity of the relationship for sure.
In my situation you should know that for the moment i have no news from blue sweeties, nada, zero.
Ok fellows, i stop you, i know what you want me to say --> FLAG ORANGE.
So my work had been quickly around H+72 to cool  down and to turn me off emotionnaly.
It's the work to do, the way to go. Because i'm not this sort of spotty teenager and i know the law. I remember few years ago when i was in a big breakdown. In such case you loose the north, you loose the pace and you try to find the compass and you don't, curling to loss the control, I REMEMBER my favorite sentence : " the most urgent is to do nothing". It's the sentence to remind, the words which must flash on the 20' screen of your computer.
I mean when the odds put you in the zero state, the west culture manages it with a huge difficulty. The wait is not at all something in our culture. The acceptance is the contrary of action. You are always  thinking that you can do something but you act only to exist, which can interfere negatively with your goals and yours interests. Because the most terrible for a everybody is because we are  afraid of heights.
This girl hasn't given any news. And what ? What can i do ? Send the FBI ?

 :ROFL: :naughty:
I sent few SMS and try to call from France. No answer.
So now i know what i have to do , i'm going to tell you :

   Unfortunately in the common life (here in rwd we can say that a lot of OP are not common, of course, in view of the stake) i see a lot of people who are suffering their life more than they  lead it. I see many people staying stucked for example in a long term relationship, knowing for example that their partner is not at all an adequate person, they know it, but they cannot move. Or They are staying in an unsatisfactory job but without trying to change.  They don't want enter into the risk, which is the countepart of the success.
It's the same for a lot of guys who are going in FSU, they think they manage their travel but in fact no. It's why it's better to stay in control during travel by dividing ressources : i mean the girl, backup B for those who try WOVO, adress of agency 1 in case of if you try a WOVO, the interpreter, phone of interpreter 2 in case of,  the rental agency in his driver. Each time that you let odds take control for a large part of your travel you are going nowhere. Why ? Because we are lazy, it's easier to let you in the flow rather to fight against it.
   I saw many guys, after date 2 ou 3 with a girl, they feel sad because they say Anna don't know what she want, nothing really happened. In general it's because they don't know exactly what they want, and they have no really idea of how to assess the progress of the relation. If you don't know where you want to go in the relation, don't ask to the girls it's not their job, it's your !
       I can say to you that each time with a girl i had been ready to lose the relation in 90% the relationship had grown !
 
   My strategic plan with this girl is very simple :
   Mid june she should come back in her city. The 16 if i have no news i have a meeting scheduled for a long time with two girls and one has a marvellous ass, have you seen a Ferrari Testarossa from behind ? She has almost the same curves, It will time to book a place in Monza's paddock, we will see.
   Deadline : 20 june, if no news i will plan my second travel in Dnepropetrovsk ? Simple no ?
   To success, you know, you need to have the odds, you know it perfectly, it can make all the difference. Do you know why i'm a little angry ? Because i make a perfect plan : 17 days (or 18 or more but after you must keep some vacation for the following travels to stick to your love affair) is really the time to take because you have 7 days to see all your first meetings, see your preferences a second time, and with the short liste you still have TWO weeks end to spend with your lady (or your short list).
And believe it, i did this plan in september 09 and guess what, just 4 days after my arrival my lady, whith who i really match (and she was very interested), was saying to me that she needed to go abroad in vacation. And this travel, in Dnepropetrovsk the same happened.
 :exploding: :exploding: :exploding: :barf:

 
   But by the ways, fellows where is the problem ?
   Have you noticed that often WE are often the problem. I mean we see problems where they aren't. And sometimes you make it, so they happen.
   Try to use the empathic way and change our skin, you want to follow me ?
   Ok next next  (next is poetry, you need it everybody, you speak too much of flight and $)  post (i don't forget that we have a lot of things to speak as previous GF and the dirty part of the business around the international dating) we will change of skin, ok ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 01, 2011, 05:37:43 PM
je reprends l'auto-strade à contre sens
J'envoies 240 dans la courbe ascendante
et j'entends le son dans l'espace intérieur
s'exhiber en tenue de soirée
I can see the plane burning in the sunshine
I feel right because the day shine in the moonlight
After the rain, i let the overdrive until the patrol has gone
Je tire trois cartouches de givre en bordure de mer
et j'étaye les couches de gypse dans la clairière claire
qui laisse à l'idéal surgir la lisière des fantasmes
Je n'aurai jamais cru que mourir fut ressurgir
et que ma peine dans le couchant de l'océan
fut précaire comme l'idéal le fut à l'arc boutant
et la travée de chêne vierge dans la trouée
et que le DH88 fut une comète qui m'emporterait dans le ciel
Je désire dis tu
Tu me dis que le je n'a pas de rigueur
mais quand je reprends le clavier
composite de cristal
dans l'ouverture de la cathédrale
je joins mes doigts au saillant de l'art roman
et de dérives de blondes orbitales en vaines mondaines
pendant que vous étiez toute seule dans la chambre funéraire
Je revois le transatlantique dans la trouée du Pacifique
Et maintenant que nous sommes seuls au préau
Je revois tes doigts d'amarante dans la conque de mon enfance
et je n'aurais jamais cru qu'il fut possible de descendre à l'équerre
le long d'une vie empreinte de tant de féminité
et de vivre la sèvre onirique, des nuits satiriques,
When a lady in the night, during a kick flip, is leaving the way needed to be
After the loop you must fill the complementary document
if you want to escape from the earth.
I will never know the name of the old mystery
But i can see in the fog of the river the knights arising from the Mordor.

Pat
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 01, 2011, 05:52:17 PM
The dechirure is something particular, and more when you are leaving a lady in the beginning of the relationship.
Should we call you Pat-Agonie now ;D?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on June 01, 2011, 09:35:46 PM
Many of our regulars often are quick to critize others saying 'they can't make a choice, are always looking  for the next gal, etc.'

Now here, we see a man who did make a choice; but the gods were not kind  to him.

They sent his chosen gal away; and we even learn that this has happened to Pat before.

I feel for you Pat and the pain you are enduring now.  I hope you can find some way  to ease the pain.

Best to you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 02, 2011, 03:27:45 AM
Should we call you Pat-Agonie now ;D ?
:ROFL:
No Sandro, Fortunately i'm not.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 02, 2011, 03:58:25 AM
I was saying in my post 234 that each time the relationship with a FSU woman don't progress or if there is a problem you must have a plan as, contrary to the locals one, time will not help in the long term. Too many variables can appear. And you must stick to your plan elseif you are waisting your time, and so your life. Plan means deadline, and action.

For the moment, i'm in a unpleasant position : i'm waiting, not knowing what will happen AT ALL.
In general the common way for people is to try to reduce their anxiety, BECAUSE we need to be validated as human (tell me i'm beautiful, tell me i'm strong, tell me i'm intelligent, tell me i'm interesting, tell me i'm the best....). Some a lot, some a little. BECAUSE humans don't like the unknow, the uncertainty.

I would say, rather than to try to control external odds i prefer to work on my internal world. Life learnt me that it's more easy to change yourself rather than to change others. And surprisingly, by changing you are triggering something in others' demeanor. True ! Unbelievable but true.

My way is
1/ to disengage me emotionaly
2/ decrease my level of interest for her progressively in time or cease it
3/ Prepare an other plan

To finish it happens sometimes (it happened recently with a local one) that you win a women, you have a big connection, you make  a projection together (have a drink, go to the club, hiking .... get married if it is a FSU) and suddenly she escapes and flees.
Because 1/ you raise her at a so high level during the date that she is NOT this person she has become during your interaction. Often she is not capable to maintain the identity of a very sexy girl, merry, joking girl, dancing girl, feminine girl, BECAUSE for example in the daily life she spend a lot of her life looking the tv  and generally avoid to take decision (procratination), in her private life she is quite not really a funny person on a daily basis. .
2/ The social pressure is high because she begins to speak with her friends (or family) about what happening with you and what are the projection, and of course these persons are saying : you are foolish, you know him from two hours, and tatati and tatatata. Already, in usual time girls are not really self confident so now you imagine !
I'm explaining this because sometimes you have a great interaction with a woman and you can however lose her. In general it's a problem of comfort, you need to spend more time with her, or to decrease your seduction level a little. It can be know as buyer's remorse but not always

But remember i was saying
 "Try to use the empathic way and change our skin, you want to follow me ?" (post 234)

  Remember you let a lady at one o clock in the morning, and at this moment her interest is maximal.
The following day she receives your whole introduction, her interest raises again. Despite her job and the need to pack all, she finds the time to read it (9 pages) and to answer you sweetly.
The next day when you are disappointed to not meet her again because she needs time to pack an discuss with her sister she assures you (or reassures you ?) that we will keep in touch and she proposes you to take days off to go to Crimean in vacations (your preferred destination : proof that she really listened you because you had told her that you really wish to visit this area).
She is going to see her sister and she knows that you have decided to return earlier in your country, because you have said and demonstrated that it's HER, i repeat, for her it's happened : You are the guy with who she is having chemistry and you elected her. For a woman it's very important, they believed in this sort of thing. She is elected, by you, by the destiny (ten years ago an aunt said to her that she will get married with a tall foreigner with beautifuls hands and she never forgot the prediciton, you never know the power of this sort of things)

Now why she doesn't give any news ? Ah Ah Ah, i don't know ?
I think she is a voiced women, i'm pretty sure (some women prefer write, some prefer to speak)
Perhaps she is with an other fellow, an ukrainian/russian businessman who lives between Moscow and Ukraine. Or her time vacation is splitted between her sister and a foreigner suitor (2 weeks with her sister and one with the guy). How can we know ?

Do you believe really this sort of woman is alone, without any suitors ? Don't be naïve, of course, not. It is not the nature of the woman, and this one is in at least one marriage agency and it is the beginning of the year for the chase for every foreigners (us).

So it's simple it doesn't matter if she is with her sister or not. With a suitor or not, or she got F.... every night by an other fellow. No, really. It's more simple.

If she always really proposes me some vacation together (and i can be free in the first mid of july) it means that i'm  entering in the competition and i'm totally worth on it. And believe me she will remember of this vacation i can tell you !!! Because for Crimean i have already my game plan (and of course it will begin before the real event).  ;D :D

So i repeat : it's very simple, just two weeks to wait (make sports, make my business, improve my skills in english and russian).
And of course, give her almost no news now.
YOU CANNOT reward a women who gives you any news by sending her always a high level of interest, of course, it will be the most stupid thing to do. And above all, doing this, you are working against you.



 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 02, 2011, 11:16:05 AM
I'm sorry to hear this girl is silent on you Pat. Who knows what's going on? It's just speculation. Let's hope she gets in touch with you real soon and that the reason she did not before is a good one. Keep up the spirits Pat  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on June 02, 2011, 11:59:29 AM
When I contacted my wife for the first time, she took a whole month to reply back to me. I replied the same day and it took another month for her to reply to me. On my third email to her I simply stated that if she wanted to know me to give me a phone nmbere where I can call her because if I had to wait a month for each reply I was going to die of old age before I ever meet her in person.
 
I received an email the next day with a phone number.
 
Just saying.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 02, 2011, 12:45:00 PM
I'm sorry to hear this girl is silent on you Pat. Who knows what's going on? It's just speculation. Let's hope she gets in touch with you real soon and that the reason she did not before is a good one. Keep up the spirits Pat  :D
You are right it's pure speculation. So it's time to disconnect and to be patient, but with a deadline of course. Thank Natural for your support.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 02, 2011, 12:50:59 PM
When I contacted my wife for the first time, she took a whole month to reply back to me. I replied the same day and it took another month for her to reply to me. On my third email to her I simply stated that if she wanted to know me to give me a phone nmbere where I can call her because if I had to wait a month for each reply I was going to die of old age before I ever meet her in person.
 
I received an email the next day with a phone number.
 
Just saying.
Muzh you make me laugh with your story "I was going to die of old age before I ever meet her in person"
 :ROFL:
However she has a phone, she has an email and i have these contact details. I know ukrainian girls don't pick up because of roaming when they are in Russia, and it's not cheap, and a lot of people (almost all ?) have prepaid card.
As Natural has said it's just speculation, but for sure her explanation, if events allow such a thing, would be interesting anyways.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on June 02, 2011, 12:58:02 PM
Muzh's comments just reminded me of the vast differences that can exist between persons regarding need or desire to communicate.

This is irrespective of who they are communicating with.

Some people are talkers, some are writers, etc.  Some are neither.

Some want to reply to messages as soon as possible, some always put off replying as long as possible.

I would think that there has to be some relationship between timely communication and romantic interest; but I don't think the relationship is linear.

That is to say, just because a person doesn't reply in a timely fashion doesn't mean they have zero interest in you; although it could mean that.

I have one very good male friend.  He is the greatest guy ever on a day to day basis and will provide any help I or his other friends need, etc.  But, he sometimes can disappear for weeks at a time and never tells anyone that he was even planning a trip.  Despite myself and others telling him over several years how disconcerting this is  . . . .  he professes to see nothing wrong with his behavior and doesn't understand why we would even be thinking about him when he is gone since he always reestablishes contact when he returns.

Out of sight; out of mind.  But when near; very much in mind.

Just another of the compatibility issues when looking for a mate.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 02, 2011, 01:41:25 PM
Muzh's comments just reminded me of the vast differences that can exist between persons regarding need or desire to communicate.

This is irrespective of who they are communicating with.

Some people are talkers, some are writers, etc.  Some are neither.

Some want to reply to messages as soon as possible, some always put off replying as long as possible.

I would think that there has to be some relationship between timely communication and romantic interest; but I don't think the relationship is linear.

That is to say, just because a person doesn't reply in a timely fashion doesn't mean they have zero interest in you; although it could mean that.

I have one very good male friend.  He is the greatest guy ever on a day to day basis and will provide any help I or his other friends need, etc.  But, he sometimes can disappear for weeks at a time and never tells anyone that he was even planning a trip.  Despite myself and others telling him over several years how disconcerting this is  . . . .  he professes to see nothing wrong with his behavior and doesn't understand why we would even be thinking about him when he is gone since he always reestablishes contact when he returns.

Out of sight; out of mind.  But when near; very much in mind.

Just another of the compatibility issues when looking for a mate.

Very good post ManLooking, you are right we are very different. I think her message, before leaving Dnepr, was in substance : (i use your owns words) "Out of sight; out of mind.  But when near; very much in mind", time will show if this one is validated in fact
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on June 02, 2011, 01:54:43 PM
I don't know Pat but, women like to be chased after. NOT stalked, chased. It shows them your interest in her. Something like a short SMS saying "I'm thinking of you" and all that sweet nonsense can go a long way.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 02, 2011, 04:15:50 PM
I don't know Pat but, women like to be chased after. NOT stalked, chased. It shows them your interest in her. Something like a short SMS saying "I'm thinking of you" and all that sweet nonsense can go a long way.
I did it Muzh, since our (me for Kharkov, her for Moscow) departure from Dnep i send 3 SMS the 26,
28 and 31 (and i tried a call also the 31). The last one finished by "i'll be please to know how you are". I think it's enough now.
You are right they don't like at all to be stalked.
But about they like to be chased after, i have an other theory, and an appropriate practice, and for what i've seen, in the west,  i can say this new one is really really more successful since three years than the years before. 
Really it costs almost nothing in money and in time to her to go in an internet shop, and write 3 lines in an email.
Time will show. But however it's an orange flag.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on June 02, 2011, 08:53:30 PM
Pat, another aspect of  this.

Just suppose . . . she has been on dates with several foreign guys.

And many of these foreign guys said: "I will come back to see you again."

And most of these foreign guys did not come back.

Now factor in she only saw you twice.

Perhaps you are expecting too much given her possible prior experiences.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 03, 2011, 01:41:59 PM
Pat, another aspect of  this.

Just suppose . . . she has been on dates with several foreign guys.

And many of these foreign guys said: "I will come back to see you again."

And most of these foreign guys did not come back.

Now factor in she only saw you twice.

Perhaps you are expecting too much given her possible prior experiences.

Interesting.
I've a very suspicious side and on other hand i have a commited sentimental side too. There is one thing i really like with those FSU women : i mean they are open, they are new, they are ready to go, they want to live, they are not so tormented than their western counterparts.
Of course i don't know her previous experiences, but really the guy who don't take time to make a second trip would be really stupid. She is really crunchy.






Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 04, 2011, 06:58:13 AM
Little summarise for people who are jumping on the train :
Patagonie went to Dnepropetrovsk, after a good preparation, and took a fee with an agency in this city. After 6 meetings, he met a valuable lady who showed, during the 6 hours of their two meetings, a huge interest. But the lady was leaving the city just after the meeting. So Patagonie decided to return to his homeland, stopping all others meetings as he is not a newbie and as he thinks that the lady is a good challenger. Since theirs departures Patagonie has received any news from the lady wich is irritating, and show an orange flag.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 04, 2011, 10:58:10 AM
In Kharkov i called my ex girlfriend who was unfortunately unavailable.
We had had a longer discussion last week together, after my return in France.
In september 09 i was in Kharkov and met her. She is a very nice person, simple (and for me it's a quality), with an anchored personality.
The problem had been our age difference and after one month, knowing that i was scheduling a second meeting, parents had become involved. Knowing the age difference they said stop. Only daughter, living at home's parents, you  can guess the rest.
She was pleased to hear after nine months. And she asked me, but Pat you call me and you are not angry. I said, no, why ? I'm not angry. It's not my fault, it's not her fault.
And she asked me : how do you find my english now ?
I said to her : it's obvious that it has improved. She is proud to have worked on it.
We agreed to meet in Kharkov if i come back in this city. For me each time shared with a FSU person is something interesting and i enjoy it. I like people, i like the culture, and i'm fond of understand and have a maximum of informations.
Interesting information, last year she was the only FSU girl i know who is not having internet, and not having a mailbox. I hope she has subscribed one because it's really basic.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 04, 2011, 01:09:32 PM
Agency girls don't hesitate to lie.
Instead of saying, "I don't like you", they say, "I have to travel, my mom is sick, etc."

Can an agency gather a group of wonderful ladies who will entertain an "important" man from the West? Sure. The agency will tell them, "We're 99% sure that he will reject you because we'll also show him young models. However, when he'll ask you for a sex test drive, make up an excuse and leave him."

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Jumper on June 04, 2011, 01:49:29 PM
Agency girls don't hesitate to lie.
Instead of saying, "I don't like you", they say, "I have to travel, my mom is sick, etc."

Can an agency gather a group of wonderful ladies who will entertain an "important" man from the West? Sure. The agency will tell them, "We're 99% sure that he will reject you because we'll also show him young models. However, when he'll ask you for a sex test drive, make up an excuse and leave him."

 
Huge generalization there.
 
You might want to qualify that with
*some women signed up in agencies* will do this, or that..
 
It is something men should be aware of,
 but I know a lot of women signed up with some marriage agency ,that would not dream of doing what you suggest.
 
 While they *might* make up some excuse to let a man that they did not like down easy..
 
It generally wouldn't be from the dark motivation of playing some agency games ,with the men they meet.
 If meeting a good man,that they liked, They  would certainly pursue a relationship with him,and  to marriage if they both wanted.It is afterall why many of them signed uop in the first place, despite 90% of them being passed over and seldom if ever  contacted since they aren't 20 yo models.
 
 
 What you describe happens, but it is normally quite clear, and is mostly played by the very young girls at an given agancy.
 
Could a more mature women also play this silly game?
absolutely!! and  i know of a few that do,but they are by FAR are in the minority,not the *average women * signed up at an agency.
 
The problem is most men chase the small percent of very young, very attractive agency *players*.
In that scenario and context, your generalization is far more accurate.
but i do not think it is  accurate for "agency girls"(women signed up at a marriage agency)  as a general rule.
 No matter their initial motivation for signing up,
 most are single, and most would date and marry a decent man they met ,that they hit it off well with.
I never had any problem finding sincere women at all.
It isn't rocket science,and as corrupt as the agencies often are, it still isnt all that difficult to meet sincere women signed up with them.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 04, 2011, 02:03:39 PM
i keep in touch too with my ex bielorussian girl for one year.
To show you guys, that some woman are really hard worker.
For one year now she's studying my language and her knowledge of the language is already amazing, knowing she has a top job and they are crazy in her firm.
She has not only learnt a third language (she is very good in english too) but also she aims to restart studies in France at 34. Yes you read she is doing this thing. I'm actually helping her to find the goods documents and i will do my best to help her later. She is a very talentuous woman, highly intelligent for what i saw.
Some guys are telling FSU woman are like their western counterpart, more beautiful in average they grant. I would say for the moment, in average, i say IN AVERAGE, i've found FSU women more intelligent, more educated and of course more beautiful. This my opinion, perhaps i will change later.

I had had in the past a local girlfriend who had a very high level in mathematics and even in sport, but it had been in the detriment of her feminity and in the detriment of humans' relations.

Just to say i highly appreciate people who triy to improve their life and who struggle for (of course without dispossess others). And here just to show two examples of girls who are improving theirs lifes.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 04, 2011, 02:14:48 PM
I would reemphasize the main point: an agency girl who doesn't like a gentleman, doesn't reject him immediately. She replies to his letters, goes out with him even when she's out of his league.
It stops the gentleman from checking other real women.

It's just not possible to quickly find 20 decent girls who are interested in a foreigner. 90% are just for the crowd.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Jumper on June 04, 2011, 03:14:58 PM
I would reemphasize the main point: an agency girl who doesn't like a gentleman, doesn't reject him immediately. She replies to his letters, goes out with him even when she's out of his league.

Hmm, and a few men I know  have been rejected in the first three minutes?  (facet,etc)
Now how'd that ever happen? ;)
 
I once had one that never even came over the to the
restaurant table.. :)
decided i was some kind of *player* from a distance and called the 'terp to cancel..
(I did see her looking in the window ..lol)
Must have been my purple zoot suit and top hat with the big white feather.  :P
 
 
Overall I would  agree that some can play the game you describe, but to attribute it to all agency women seems weird,and i'm not sure it applies at all to Pats particular case.
 
She could be, but I doubt she's *agency diva*  playing him,
she could send an occassional SMS if she wanted to string
 him along.Mobile phones  do work in Moscow after all ;)
 
I'd far more gather she has other interests..
she may get back to pat, she may not, but right now he isnt a priorioty.
and really why should he be? they had one meeting.
 
Pat recognizes that well.
He is biding his time, and letting things simply play out,
thats really all that can be done, and all that should be done.
It should happen naturally or it was never meant to be.
 In the meantime , if i was him i wouldnt let any moss grow on me.
 
 Anyway, the motivation of any woman,  to not completely close the door, isn't always agency related,it can be cultural and economics driven..I feel few RW a foriegn man met thru any method would not  act much different when it came to the specific scenario of not entirely closing the door.
Women have led men on (and vice versa)  for years lol..for multitudes of reasons..
 You think agencies always need to be the deep dark motivator?
 
I do agree they can be,and particularly with the young model like set that makes the agency money.
 
 
Quote from: Vincenzo
It's just not possible to quickly find 20 decent girls who are interested in a foreigner. 90% are just for the crowd.

I understand you are down on agencies, that's fine.
 
There are plenty of other ways to meet ,and I encourage those as well.
 
 
but to clarify agencies-
 
 First-  I would not really need to find 20 for one visit.
That seems a very arbitrary number? :)
 
Second-
Define quickly?
1 day?
2 weeks?
4 weeks?
 
Given just normal prepartion time for any trip there, I could find ten sincere women , easily,  even in the worst agency in the worst scammer city you can name. Again it is not rocket science.
 
 This does not mean I would connect with them, or them with me, it means they were sincere in their interest to meet or marry a decent man.
 
Not sure where you are looking, or what experience you have, but yours is the  total opposite of my own.
 
Outside of the small percentage of 19-22 yo models ,who likely get 90% of the attention and contacts..
 
The rest of the women signed up with an agency are generally quite sincere when actually meeting a foriegn man.
Odds are great they never have in most provinciak cirties, if they arent amoungst those select few young models.
 
 Generally it is up to the man to screw it up,
and far too often he is a misfit, insecure, or simply weird,  and does.
 
In my experiencve this is just as likely scenario, as a woman playing some agency game with a man.
 
Beware the agency games , they certainly exist.
They are typically played by a small core group that works for the agency, the rest of the women signed up know the score, choose to ignore it and deal with the reality of the FSU, its just how it is! and are simply signed up there.
They are sincere if they get the opportunity to meet a decent guy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 04, 2011, 04:07:05 PM
I like your post AJ. We are far from the divas of 18-22 or even less 25 as she is 30 (she is pretty so she has surely more choice than others, it's a natural rule).
 
 " In the meantime , if i was him i wouldnt let any moss grow on me." I imagine that you want to say : take action with the locals, or prepare an other plan ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Jumper on June 04, 2011, 04:21:08 PM
Pat,
basically yes.
 
To not sit idle and only wait.
 
It means to do exactly what you are doing, going on with life,with your interests,and if you meet an interesting woman , to date her.
 
If this woman contacts you again,or you her after her designated return,  of course why not see her and see what becomes of this?
 
but in the meantime , there is  no reason to really think about it, or modify your normal routine or life.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 04, 2011, 04:52:25 PM
Quote
Outside of the small percentage of 19-22 yo models ,who likely get 90% of the attention and contacts..
No. The most sought-after group is 25-35 year-old women, attractive, without kids, and with good English.
Does it sound like the lady he is waiting for?

If a guy is 25 and has money, he can find  young and beautiful girls everywhere, mamba is full of them.
If he is 45 and has some wisdom, he will look for women around 30. But it's much more difficult.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 04, 2011, 05:03:06 PM
Pat,
basically yes.
 
To not sit idle and only wait.
 
It means to do exactly what you are doing, going on with life,with your interests,and if you meet an interesting woman , to date her.
 
If this woman contacts you again,or you her after her designated return,  of course why not see her and see what becomes of this?
 
but in the meantime , there is  no reason to really think about it, or modify your normal routine or life.

AJ we totally agree
 
To complete i  can say now that i'm stopping to send SMS. I sent three from France and one from Kharkov, and really it's enough. You mustn't reward a woman when she has a bad demeanor. :deadhorse:
 
I would have send this few hours ago, but  really this is stupid, this only a sign of interest wich shows that she is the prize and you the little dog              "XXXXXXX I find quite strange that you have never answered since my departure. I found that Five Stars is a serious agency so i will restart with them as i have vacation in july. I'm going to buy my tickets soon. So tell me if you want to do something Pat"
 
I like this post because he is short, all is said, all is concise and you show your control, Patagonie is acquiring again his frame. And the little thing funny is that she don't know when i will buy the tickets exactly, so she can believe it's too late.
 
BUT send this is not so intelligent. You are always in a low position in fact. Indirectly you are asking a comfirmation, you let her the power.
 
 :welcome: The better is to keep quiet, and to do others things like say AJ "but in the meantime , there is  no reason to really think about it, or modify your normal routine or life."
 
 The scoop i can give you now is my secret agenda (this girl had one, me too :clapping: ).
 
 You know i'm the guy who takes decision. So it's very simple : i've some vacation in the beginning of july and i will go in Dnepropetrovsk, with the same agencies, perhaps not exactly the same amount of vacation, but surely 10 days.
 
 She will return from Moscow the 16 june, and me in my head i will buy my tickets the 18 maximum. So it's very simple juste after her return in Dnepropetrovsk if she doesn't send news, i would buy my tickets 48 hours after her arrival.
 And for the locals, i've not a lot of time but if it's possible to enjoy i would enjoy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 04, 2011, 05:25:59 PM
Hi fellows
 
 You have only 12 days to wait for knowing :
 
 Blue Sweeties : will she contact me or  not.
 
 The travel at Dnepropetrovsk. It will happen  if she don't contact me during the two following days of her return.
 
 So finally it's easy, i have a lot of to do here for the moment, i have an unteresting date the 18, and in one month, i will be again in Dnepropetrosk, wich is not an unpleasant city. And perhaps a trip avec the lady, we don't know
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JohnDearGreen on June 04, 2011, 05:56:59 PM
Hi fellows
 You have only 12 days to wait for knowing :
 Blue Sweeties : will she contact me or  not.
Maybe she is just keeping you on the hotseat for a while for being one of those indispicable VM types.  Playing hard to get, flexing her muscles, exercising her powers.  Maybe she will let you out of jail soon.  Just a few more days.  You'll have done your time.  Out of the can.  A reformed man.


OTOH, maybe she just left her charger at home.


Good luck.


[youtube]2peHybUNg9Y[/youtube]
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Jumper on June 04, 2011, 06:46:21 PM
No. The most sought-after group is 25-35 year-old women, attractive, without kids, and with good English.
Does it sound like the lady he is waiting for?

The most sought after in general?
The ones most likely to play the agency game to alluded  to ?
 or the most *sought after* by those who have researched things a bit more carefully,
have some prior experience and might actually travel?
 
We will have to agree to disagree.
 in over a decade of being involved,knowing agency owners, etc. 90% of attention is placed on a very select few women, mostly very young and very attractive.
This is pretty much regardless only keyboard romeo's or men actually traveling.
 
Certainly a single childless , beautiful woman with good english skills between 25 and 35 will get a share of that attention.They may even play an agency game.
If refering to Pats romantic interest , perhaps it applies? who is to know.
 
 You original simply stated  *Agency girls* will behave a certain way.
I replied not feeling it was an accurate generalization.
 
Now you are specifying the agency girls and be beautiful, 25-35 , good english and childless.
 My reply was to *agency girls* behavior  in general, not
the likely behavior of the  top banner ad girls,
 or the beauitiful , with great english skills and childless.
 
The bulk of *agency girls* do not fit the criteria you listed.
If sticking strickly to such criteria, then you can't expect to
state how *agency girls* actually are IMHO.
 
 The same 33 year old , attractive woman,
yet  with a child and limited english, and the agency scenerario you portray is very unlikely.
The irony is ,she is by far the majority of *agency girls*
 
Quote
If a guy is 25 and has money, he can find  young and beautiful girls everywhere, mamba is full of them.
If he is 45 and has some wisdom, he will look for women around 30. But it's much more difficult.

It is only difficult if he limits his selection criteria out of his normal dating range?
he can certainly choose to do so..
 
Your example is simply the same domestically as well?
Locally there are generally more single women under 25 than above that age.
 
 A 25 year old man is the same age as the bulk of the single women in his country, regardless which country.
And generally he is dating  women 20 to 27 , and he
will  most generally attract someone that fits his own physical looks and attractiveness unless some substantial other factor weighs in, like a lot of money or a unique personality.
 
Your 45 year old example is already looking at someone 30..
that is 15 years younger..?
 
If you really think the 45 yo man  kept his criteria the same as the 25yo man,
Dating the same age range, the same relative attractiveness/education..that  he would have substantially more difficulty..
then  I'm wondering what country you visited?
 
There is no shortage of single 40 to 47yo women in the FSU.
The 45 year old man would have little difficulty at all in finding sincere women.If he was a decent man, enjoyed family , and respected other peoples children, gainfully employed,and lived there 6 months he would literally have to beat them off his front door with a stick.
 
 
Now, if he wants to find a 30 yo model, childless, with great english.. he is choosing to restrict his chances , and this depends on his own merits.
 
 
BTW- the wealthy 25yo? if he is western man visting FSU?
in my opinion he can have a great time, plenty of girls to date!
I think you'd be surprised though at just how many  would turn him down as a *player* , or never consider him marriage material, too young, with wealth and too many distractions and chances of him dallying in their minds.
He could find someone, of this there is little doubt,
but he would have his own set of difficulties.
 A 30 to 35 yo guy likely has the upper hand in your scenario.
 
 
Pat, sorry for the  :offtopic:
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 04, 2011, 11:25:54 PM
She didn't play any games. Did she say that she loved Patagonie? No.
Did she act as a woman in love? No.

A woman in love tries her best to show her interest to the lover: she postpones all trips, parties, classes; she writes numerous emails, SMS messages, etc.
You can always see her love.

It's my observation that it's very easy to find an attractive 20 year-old girl everywhere. If a man matches her in his looks, she may go with him. But many of these girls are too young and mostly look for fun.
Also, it's easy to find ladies over 40 because the locals (except grandfathers) don't want them.

25-35 is the sweet spot.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 05, 2011, 01:44:49 AM
Maybe she is just keeping you on the hotseat for a while for being one of those indispicable VM types.  Playing hard to get, flexing her muscles, exercising her powers.  Maybe she will let you out of jail soon.  Just a few more days.  You'll have done your time.  Out of the can.  A reformed man.


OTOH, maybe she just left her charger at home.


Good luck.


Thank for Jessi Colter, great voice, on my old time i've liked America and an other woman crooner.

What do you mean exactly by indispicable John ? Even if she forgot her charger, she still has many options to send some news. It's just i'm not a priority as AJ said.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2011, 02:04:36 AM
Quote
Also, it's easy to find ladies over 40 because the locals (except grandfathers) don't want them.

Untrue, at least in Ukraine.  Most Ukrainian men look for women closer to themselves in age.   There are lots of areas of Ukraine where you will find few men over, say, 50.  What you will also find is that UM understand UW better than foreigners do.   A lot of behaviours I've read here, that the foreign man has not even questioned, a UM would just not put up with.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 05, 2011, 03:18:50 AM
AJ no problem

One of the most important thing in life to have a good life is to be comfortable. We have huges discussions with The Natural and we are very very different about ours way to do. But we understand and respect each other because the most important factor is each of us must be comfortable (or Natural  :toocool: ?) with himself of course, and with others.
 
 When a girl younger than you of 17 likes you and is physically attracted  you are a little disturbed, not because you have some doubt, she is totally genuine, this not the issue. Just YOU YOU are not totally comfortable perhaps, not now, not tomorrow but because you perfectly know that problems will appear perhaps in few years, and in particular when she will become your wife in your homeland country. It's very surprising but true that those  FSU women are really comfortable with such age gap, and i'm not sure that WM are so comfortable about this issue. I mean in the spirit of this forum (build a strong relation commited by a marriage). It's why i avoid very yound girl and you must have some discipline because it's very easy to fall in love. There was a couple, married, in the plane during the outward journey. She was less than 25 easily and he was around 50, more  than 50 probably. She spent a part of her time to cry and to refuse to have anything to do with him. Really not the sort of couple i want to have.
 
 One of the thing about FSU girls are complaining often is unfaithfulness in their country. The national sport for RM is to cheat on theirs wifes or GF. It happened to many of the girls i met. This is why olders western guys has a better worth. Those ladies know that older men will be probably not a stallion always in conquest, will be  wiser, more mature, and the law system is not in men's favor. They feel also more secure for many reasons (among others the olders ones have statistically more chance to provide a better materialistic life, and of course if those ladies have count three times each grivna they don't want to count each $ three time later)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 05, 2011, 03:37:51 AM
A lot of behaviours I've read here, that the foreign man has not even questioned, a UM would just not put up with.

Can you give some examples of that Boethius?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2011, 04:00:55 AM
I won't give specific examples, as it would identify posters, and my intent is not to humiliate anyone.  One that comes to mind that is quite common is in buying gifts, with the woman wanting something in particular, and dragging him along to pay.  A UM would deal with that directly and bluntly.  She wouldn't be dragging him to shops, or be trying to persuade him to buy her something that she really wants.   Most would cut her off.  It just would never even become an issue.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on June 05, 2011, 08:36:19 AM
I won't give specific examples, as it would identify posters, and my intent is not to humiliate anyone.  One that comes to mind that is quite common is in buying gifts, with the woman wanting something in particular, and dragging him along to pay.  A UM would deal with that directly and bluntly.  She wouldn't be dragging him to shops, or be trying to persuade him to buy her something that she really wants.   Most would cut her off.  It just would never even become an issue.

Good example.  And the UW would respect the UM less if he did consent to buy her anything and everything. 
 
I am not sure of how the UM says "No."  I imagine that the best UM are diplomatic and not brutally blunt, making the UW feel okay even though she is not getting a pretty present.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 05, 2011, 10:06:27 AM
A UM would deal with that directly and bluntly.  She wouldn't be dragging him to shops, or be trying to persuade him to buy her something that she really wants.   Most would cut her off.  It just would never even become an issue.
A Ukrainian woman won't even try to ask to buy her gifts.

First, it's the capitalist system in the Ukraine. If a man buys a woman an expensive gift, she knows she has to pay in bed.
Second, if she's in love, she cares about her beloved. For example, if he's a poor student, she will find cheap places to have fun together.

However, small signs of attention are expected. The best are flowers.

It's the same everywhere in the world.

What happens when an old dirty man meets a young princess and wants to cuddle her peach body? He has to buy her expensive gifts!
(http://cdn.961joyfm.com/files/2010/12/Hefner-Harris-122710.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2011, 10:12:54 AM
And a WM doesn't expect to be bedded?  LOL.    Don't you think UW want to be bedded?  UW try this on boyfriends as well, I've seen it, and I've seen the end result.  But, I disagree with Gator that they would respect him less if he bought a present.  Though, I have never seen it happen.

It's not the same, because not all humans think the same way.  You seem to have a "one size fits all" approach to women.  Some women like to be wooed, as you have described.  Others would find it annoying.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 05, 2011, 10:19:19 AM
Don't you think UW want to be bedded? 

Well, I think so. I can't make any generalizations about that, but I know of one who want to be bedded, so it's not unheard of.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 05, 2011, 10:19:46 AM
Untrue, at least in Ukraine.  Most Ukrainian men look for women closer to themselves in age. 
True!
Ukrainian women over 40, usually with 2 kids and chubby, have bleak prospects unless they are very attractive.
That's the reason they look for foreign men.

25-35 year-old ladies, talented and educated, often try to meet Western men because these ladies can achieve more in the West.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JohnDearGreen on June 05, 2011, 07:41:12 PM
What do you mean exactly by indispicable John ?
Just joking.

Even if she forgot her charger, she still has many options to send some news. It's just i'm not a priority as AJ said.
Yes, we are a much higher priority when in their country than when out.
I once spent 3 hours trying to get a phone connection to my 1st Kiev GF when she was on vacation at her old apt. in Odessa.  After finally getting a connection, she says "can you call back in an hour?  I'm watching a TV program now.".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2011, 09:19:04 PM
True!
Ukrainian women over 40, usually with 2 kids and chubby, have bleak prospects unless they are very attractive.
That's the reason they look for foreign men.

25-35 year-old ladies, talented and educated, often try to meet Western men because these ladies can achieve more in the West.

You know very little of Ukrainian culture.  Lots of UM over 40, many of whom are from a peasant backgrounds, like chubby women. 

Women over 40 look for foreign men because there are fewer UM in that age group, as alcohol abuse begins to take its toll. 

Most UW looking for foreigners do so to expand their options, not because they wish to leave their families, and everything familiar, to live with a WM.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 06, 2011, 01:32:41 AM
Just joking.Yes, we are a much higher priority when in their country than when out.
I once spent 3 hours trying to get a phone connection to my 1st Kiev GF when she was on vacation at her old apt. in Odessa.  After finally getting a connection, she says "can you call back in an hour?  
 :ROFL:

I would tell you a little story with a lady i met three weeks ago. CaptainOfCustoms spent three hours and half with me and the terp, she was shy but she showed quite a lot of sign of interest. I sent her a SMS to propose her a diner because i like her, less than blue sweeties, because i had'nt met Bluee sweeties yet of course. The meeting with CaptainOfCustoms had been scheduled for 20:00 and finally reported to 21:15. I was leaving my previous meeting (of  20:15 i think) and walking fastly to reach the meeting place when i just received this SMS from CaptainOfCustoms :"I'm cooking, eat and i still not to be free, sorry" Do you believe it ? This is strange. 

But i have better, the day after to see how the land lies i send and other sms  type how are you ? Answer : sms1 : i'm fine sms2: maybe we can echange mail and skype ? When you are going in Kharkov ?

Of course when i'm in her city it's time to chit and chat on Skype and write long letters  :cluebat:

A lot of FSU women don't have a real idea of what is the cost of this sort of travel, financially, in time vacation, emotionally and it's not resting at all. So for some (or many?) your time is free. The time you offerer to her, in particular in a VM, if she don't get it, she excludes herself from the race. GIRLS : when a guy shows, and if he is challenger, you must priorize him high in your time, as possible, even if you have had any contact before, and try to spend with him as MANY time AS POSSIBLE .
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 06, 2011, 04:35:44 PM
To not add to the crowded topic "why FSUW are looking abroad". And in particular about this one, of Anotherkiwi :) .
 
" It's interesting to me that there only appears to be a handful of "still lookings" in those who post (reasonably) regularly - myself, LAMan, ManLooking, The Natural, Vincenzo and Patagonie amongst them - and that the remainder are already married, engaged or otherwise seriously committed.  Although of course there are pearls of wisdom scattered amongst the threads, it still amazes me just how easily threads can get side-tracked as those who've already completed this journey bicker amongst themselves").
 
I would say that to be an always "still looking", for now two years is a litlle worrying, but really just a little. What is giving me a lot of willingness is to see a lot of remainder married, engaged, or otherwise seriously commited (i think to Kievstar for example, Turboguy). And also in EM's old favorites, i'm sometimes browsing old profiles wich are obviously not avalaible (i know half of them are surely blocked for scam reasons, i'm not naïve).
 
What is also giving me a lot of willingness is a guy i met who explained me that his search had needed 6 years, and now he is happily married with his wife for 6 years (so he started 12 years ago). Each year, i'm learning experience and informations, i'm earning more money and can offer more security, i'm maturing, my seduction, much to my surprise is still improving (or in a different way perhaps). The only thing i deplore is i take each year one digit more and i need to shift my court to take in account (and it closes me some opportunities).
 
I really consider myself as doing a good job in 26 months, with a lot of work, a strong commitment (62 days off abroad in 22 months, 8 travels, budget of nearly 25000 bucks already, upgrading my english from school level to a TOEIC between 860 and 900, beginning russian now, and spending between probably 700 and 1000 hours on internet about the issue). I've made some mistakes, met scammers and also a pro prodaters, and deal/argue with them with good success.
 
The more important is to always fancy to go. It's the most difficult thing to manage. I can tell you fellows that i crave to return to Ukraine.  :exploding: No matter is it to see Blue Sweeties (i would prefer if possible) or to chase at Dnepropetrovsk, but really i already want to return. This guy said to me : if you are serious, if you have the money to go, it's 100% of success. There are enough girls in FSU, it's not a problem of girls.
Since i met him, i can say that it's engravied in my heard, i just need odds, and to take care of my weaknesses (if i cannot improve it, just don't forget where they are).
Pat
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 06, 2011, 04:46:36 PM
I don't understand.

You want to meet several women.
Why don't you grab their emails from the agency and start contacting them?

When you like a lady, it often happens that she doesn't like you. It's life.
It's better to filter her out as early as possible because later she'll make up excuses to get rid of you.




Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SFandEE on June 06, 2011, 04:50:13 PM
This guy said to me : if you are serious, if you have the money to go, it's 100% of success. There are enough girls in FSU, it's not a problem of girls.
Since i met him, i can say that it's engravied in my heard, i just need odds, and to take care of my weaknesses (if i cannot improve it, just don't forget where they are).
Pat


That is very well said.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 06, 2011, 05:12:13 PM
I don't understand.

You want to meet several women.
Why don't you grab their emails from the agency and start contacting them?

When you like a lady, it often happens that she doesn't like you. It's life.
It's better to filter her out as early as possible because later she'll make up excuses to get rid of you.
..

Vincenzo, read with me, carefully : I can tell you fellows that i crave to return to Ukraine.  (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/3D_Exploding.gif) No matter is it to see Blue Sweeties (i would prefer if possible) or to chase at Dnepropetrovsk.
As i already repeat in accordance to my strategic plan for the next 15 days : i will wait some movement from the girl, if not i will quickly book a travel to the same city.
.

Vincenzo, why haven't i send any letters to the ladies in my first travel ( i help you, the answer is in my trip report ) ? And why i will generally not use this option with almost all agencies (many reasons, Vincenzo), do your work now.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on June 06, 2011, 05:27:22 PM
...I would say that to be an always "still looking", for now two years is a litlle worrying, but really just a little. What is giving me a lot of willingness is to see a lot of remainder married, engaged, or otherwise seriously commited (i think to Kievstar for example, Turboguy)...

Yes, it gives me heart, too!


...What is also giving me a lot of willingness is a guy i met who explained me that his search had needed 6 years, and now he is happily married with his wife for 6 years (so he started 12 years ago). Each year, i'm learning experience and informations, i'm earning more money and can offer more security, i'm maturing, my seduction, much to my surprise is still improving (or in a different way perhaps). The only thing i deplore is i take each year one digit more and i need to shift my court to take in account (and it closes me some opportunities)...

I also started looking probably six years ago, but have certainly not being doing so continuously.  I've taken a break after each trip to reassess whether or not it's worthwhile to continue looking - the people I've met (not just the women I've dated) have been enough to convince me that yes, there is a fairly good chance that the FSU is where I will find that special someone.  Of course I would have no problem if a local woman stole my heart, but that doesn't seem likely at the moment.

I really consider myself as doing a good job in 26 months, with a lot of work, a strong commitment (62 days off abroad in 22 months, 8 travels, budget of nearly 25000 bucks already, upgrading my english from school level to a TOEIC between 860 and 900, beginning russian now, and spending between probably 700 and 1000 hours on internet about the issue). I've made some mistakes, met scammers and also a pro prodaters, and deal/argue with them with good success.

This is where we differ - unlike French people, I don't get six weeks annual leave, nor am I only three hours away from Moscow or Kyiv!  The one advantage I have over Patagonie is that English is my native language, and that is what most FSUW learn.  However, his English is improving all the time (it's noticeable even in the period he has been posting), and I don't think that women who speak reasonable English will have too many problems with him (well, not in the language department, anyway - not so sure about the "seduction" bit!  >:D 8) ).
Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 07, 2011, 03:25:36 PM
It's a regular topic here on RWD that i'm going to browse, but beyond this point i want to show my globlal thinking, my global strategy, wich come from  a lot of extensive reading on this forum, a tactictal analysis, what i'm living in my FSU's adventures and also my global experience in life.
 
I'M NOT STARTING A STRUGGLE VOVO vs WMVM.
 
I just want to highlight my personnal sight of the issue wich determines "Patagonie campaign, operation Barbarossa".
 
 Part 1
 
The way i want to use is : how use odds (or avoid) to have the maximal success. The success is to meet a partner with yours requirements (R factor) so long as your lady find the same in you. For my requirements see posts in the beginning of my trip and add this so special feeling i called "flying hand by hand". For the requirements of the lady, ask her  :D
 
 
1/ More women you meet (Say nW factor), and more selective you can be and more easily you can choice the fitted partner to you, PROVIDED AS they are also interested in you.
 
2/ The way to raised the range of ladies interested by you is know by (the generic word) the game. Say G letter  which lead a nW x G = inW (corrected factor = girls interested by you for a second date).
 .
 Vincenzo, where is Vincenzo ? We have lost Vincenzo.  ;) :D

3/ So now we have inW corrected by the R factor.
 
/ but many others  parameters are needed. Monthly money needed (M) and time vacation (D).
 
Factor D (expressed in days) and M (expressed in bucks). M = 400 x (D/12).
 
Practice exercise : if you have a 4 weeks annual time of vacation you need to earn enough to expense 930 $ per month for your goal. In my opinion the treshold is 4000 $ per month of earning (without debt except a mortgage) to think to have a good success in this endeavour. And extra budget is needed for the first year when your lady is coming in your homeland. Anyways higher will be your earning and better your chances are.
 
 Vincenzo, seat here and stay by the blackboard. 
  Elseif the teacher -->  :deadhorse: <-- Vincenzo
 
 Don't forget that G is balanced by M and M balanced your court too as M is a factor in the self esteem of yourself, in your global life AND when you are dating during yours abroad vacations with the aim of your FSU marriage.
 
 Part 2 ... later.
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 12, 2011, 02:34:01 PM
Summarize of the last post :
nW x G = inW = girls interested by you for a second date (G game, and nW the number of girls interested to meet you for a first meeting)
M = 400 x (D/12) = Monthly money needed (D time vacation)

I would bring a new one here which is the interest that the girl has for you. It can be up, it can be down, if you are hitting a score below a special threshold you are ejected --> you loose the girl. You must keep a girl her interest above this treshold. This thresold varies slightly, depending the woman, but it is a constant. Interest is a sum of what she want to put into the basket. The level of interest she has for you determines your score in the competition amongst all others suitors. Some actions are increasing your score and some are decreasing it. You can fall to the last position and being forgotten (and be dumped when you hit the threshold).

Call I this factor

Now we can say that everybody has a value, factor V.

In a WOVO or a WMVO your are giving her a high value. And so giving her too much value, you are decreasing  your own value. Wich decreases her interest for  you.
The fact is that your soul, your mind, your attitude, yours actions are disturbed as soon as the rapport whith the lady is not in your favor (see the present trip of Neo).  In your favor i mean as soon you are dependant, as soon you have NO CHOICE.
A man who has plenty choice is always more exciting and attracting for a girl, she must chase you to win you. If she has nothing to do to win you so the man has almost no worth (V factor), and neither she has.

In practice, it's very tempting to write or to answer on sites or even on agencies. But sooner or later you will have to make a choice. Yes the girl can be real, yes you are knowing her better but a lot of things are missing  :
Wich are :
Physical attraction
The ability for the man to aim the meeting in the direction of the bed.
If both conditions are met so the VO can be  a winner and it brings a lot of comfort because you know each others (really true or not it's almost the same) and so it enhances the comfort between the two partners so you can go quickly in the F... case.


THE VO /
The odds, saying a good professional who has seen hundreds or thousands meetings are 85 % of failure. If we leave apart the seekers who pack the woman in a dozen of days the success is really lower than 15 %, FOR A SECOND MEETING.
Would you play ?
The fact is that human things are always more complicated than some mathematics formulas. The way used by some is named the comfort. So some prefer to write and for many (personals) reasons prefer to do a VO. I think it's better to be in congruence with who you are rather than to do something for what you are not good and not prepared, this why  i'm not arguing between VO and VM. I'm just looking odds and comfort and results, and try to apply for my OWN personality.
I think however there is an optimum in odds. It's why i'm going to pursue this post.

So we were discussing about the VO. The problem is that your are not choosing the location where you would go later.
Which means that your loosing some value. Why ? It's not easy to recruit a backup and manage her interest (and be interested genuinely by her too). It's why agencies are always a very good backup.
True or false ?
Generally false because there are very few good or very good agencies, so the odds that your girl lives in a city where you have valuables agencies as backup are low or null. And it is the same for sites if the girl you want to visit is far from bigs cities because you will have  very few or null choice too.
In a VO you are loosing control from the beginning, as soon you start your FIRST letter. You are accepting the odds wich are at least in 85% a failure. A lot of, we can say everybody thinks he will be the winner, as everyone who is playing with money in a lottery. With a less than 15% of success' chances i prefer, personnaly, reconsiderer carefully my strategy. I have no fear to throw away 10 bucks in a lottery, but few thousands bucks, one week at least of vacation and all the tiredness and NEGATIVE EMOTIONS --> i would look at it CAREFULLY.

The long road of the international marriage finishes when :
1/ you don't have any money to play
2/ you don't have any time to play
3/ you don't have any energy to play (burn out, too much negatives emotions)
THE last one is the more dangerous. For the first two ones you can find perhaps a solution, for the last one NEVER. And the last one is conditionned by your sense of your own value. It's not only harmful for you to have a low value but girls will have no interest in you too !!!

In a VO you are starting with a lower V mandatory (we don't speak here about a second meeting. Here you haven't yet met the girl) because you are investing too much in relation to the girl is doing for you.

I'm pretty sure that many guys are going in flames because they don't control their time, they don't control their meeting (of course you cannot control everything, i just want to mean you must stick on results and walk away if results are non satisfying after a deadline, YOU MUST PUT A DEADLINE, YOU ARE NOT PLAYING PACKMAN, it's your life, and your life is short)

The only way for a VO man to stay, as possible, in control is to choice big cities and or select the ones where good agencies are located. So anytime it will be possible to get a REAL and OPERATIONAL backup (not the sort of backup you use in IT network, feeling secure because you have one and finally when the system crashes suddenly you realize that your backup is just BS, because it doesn't work).  :deadhorse: :cluebat:

I have to say guys that is very tempting to answer or write to many beauties or interesting (seems to be) ladies, but at the end when you see the number of scammer or prodater in the circuit you begin to have no regret to use a strategy style VM, because you don't know who is behind the screen.
I remember in the beginning, i was in correspondance with a scammer, and of course and fortunately i identify him after few correspondances as a not genuine person, but i had made some plans for a very far location in Russia with many hours of plane and many hours of train. Today i try to imagine myself in such travel to meet a fake person, what would have been my value ? Low, guys, really low, not the sort of things you brag about during the coffee with your colleagues. And however, it happens every day and everywhere in FSU.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: LAman on June 12, 2011, 09:09:30 PM
Patagonie...I don't think any equations or quantum physics or any percentages really matter when dealing with feelings, emotions, love, hopes and dreams. It will never work more than once
like math. It is an ever changing chase, everyday can be a new thought. I try not to keep score, just that I am happy and develop new experiences.
I read with interest about how long this journey can be. It can be as short as a few months and as long as forever and you never have total control. You can go in a certain direction but to me luck is the overriding criteria.....all things must come together at same time. It reminds me of a friend that married a girl from sumy. Had she missed the bus( when ran 10 minutes late), my friend would have never met her and who knows where he would be now. We all make choices that we think are best, sometimes they turn out right sometimes not. I don't know how long I will be on this journey but I have enjoyed the learning experience and have no regrets. Maybe my future is without a partner but with many friends......
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 13, 2011, 10:43:42 AM
Patagonie, you're a good guy and I like you, but in my opinion you analyze too much. If I were to do that high level analyzing, I would be mentally exhausted by the time I got to the part of meeting the hopefuls. But as you said, we are different and must operate in a way that is comfortable for our particular personality.
 
As you know, I'm going on a VO journey soon. I have no back-up. I choose to have faith in the girl I'm going to meet as well as in myself. But I will have back-up plans when it comes to money. A fistful of Dollars, Euros and Kroner, as well as plastic and perhaps a little gold coin. What I dread the most of such a trip would be to find myself without money for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on June 13, 2011, 10:59:22 AM

As you know, I'm going on a VO journey soon. I have no back-up. I choose to have faith in the girl I'm going to meet as well as in myself. But I will have back-up plans when it comes to money. A fistful of Dollars, Euros and Kroner, as well as plastic and perhaps a little gold coin. What I dread the most of such a trip would be to find myself without money for whatever reason.


Roy,


I think there is a lot to be said about your approach. Many will declare to have back up plans no matter what, which, I also think is a good idea. However those plans do not necessarily need to be more women. WOVO is a risky proposition for many and I've never really understood why. Sure sometimes even the best chemistry online/phone/skype can turn instantly flat in person. That can and does happen to many. One can reduce those chances significantly IMO if they simply do their due diligence prior to making arrangements and the trip.


Learn the woman, know the woman having spent many hours involved in conversations about everything under the sun. All of this happening away from an agency in one on one time. If a translator is required, use one independent of the agency. Exit the agency as soon as humanly possible and well before you've gotten on that plane the first time.


My back up plan on my first WOVO was nothing but the phone number and web address of an agency in the same city. I really had no sense that I would need it and I didn't. If my meeting had went South I don't think I would have used it any way. I found the city I was in was easy enough to wing it and just have a good time. Some guys don't take that approach and that's fine. My point here is, learn the lady before you go. If you have any doubts at any time that she won't go for you or you go for her, simply don't go. Wait until you "know" your chances are 75% chance of success. The 3 month rule is a good standard but, that is all it is, a standard rule of thumb.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 13, 2011, 11:27:23 AM
Patagonie...I don't think any equations or quantum physics or any percentages really matter when dealing with feelings, emotions, love, hopes and dreams. It will never work more than once
like math. It is an ever changing chase, everyday can be a new thought. I try not to keep score, just that I am happy and develop new experiences.
I read with interest about how long this journey can be. It can be as short as a few months and as long as forever and you never have total control. You can go in a certain direction but to me luck is the overriding criteria.....all things must come together at same time. It reminds me of a friend that married a girl from sumy. Had she missed the bus( when ran 10 minutes late), my friend would have never met her and who knows where he would be now. We all make choices that we think are best, sometimes they turn out right sometimes not. I don't know how long I will be on this journey but I have enjoyed the learning experience and have no regrets. Maybe my future is without a partner but with many friends......

I like your post
"I don't know how long I will be on this journey but I have enjoyed the learning experience and have no regrets. Maybe my future is without a partner but with many friends......" I'm proud of my adventure, and i'm  having great satisfaction of what is happening.
 
  Sometimes you are living bad experience and sometimes it's very exciting. I can say that i'm enjoying my travels, and it give me a lot of wealth. More important today i hope to success but perhaps not, but the more important is to try it, so i would have no regrets later, with or without having reached my goal.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 13, 2011, 11:49:08 AM

Learn the woman, know the woman having spent many hours involved in conversations about everything under the sun. All of this happening away from an agency in one on one time. If a translator is required, use one independent of the agency. Exit the agency as soon as humanly possible and well before you've gotten on that plane the first time.



Yes, I have naturally spent many hours talking with her and making sure she's the real thing, and she is. There's many little things that tell me so. We moved out from the agency which is extremely easy to do from RBrides. We talk on Skype every night for two hours, except when I have work.
 
Your advice here is sound, as always FP.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 13, 2011, 11:58:39 AM
Patagonie, you're a good guy and I like you, but in my opinion you analyze too much. If I were to do that high level analyzing, I would be mentally exhausted by the time I got to the part of meeting the hopefuls. But as you said, we are different and must operate in a way that is comfortable for our particular personality.
 
As you know, I'm going on a VO journey soon. I have no back-up. I choose to have faith in the girl I'm going to meet as well as in myself. But I will have back-up plans when it comes to money. A fistful of Dollars, Euros and Kroner, as well as plastic and perhaps a little gold coin. What I dread the most of such a trip would be to find myself without money for whatever reason.

 I think you are going to make a high score and that you are not so far from the 75% (see FP post). I think now it's just a question for you of time,  checking physical attraction (both), the values, and hoping love wil raise shared by both. I cross my fingers for you buddy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 13, 2011, 02:10:07 PM

 I think you are going to make a high score and that you are not so far from the 75% (see FP post). I think now it's just a question for you of time,  checking physical attraction (both), the values, and hoping love wil raise shared by both. I cross my fingers for you buddy.

Thanks man. I really didn't want to steal your thunder here, so to speak  :)
 
Hope things work out for you too real soon. I suppose the deadline you set for the girls is approaching? Any news or other plans for you lately Pat?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 13, 2011, 02:51:31 PM

Thanks man. I really didn't want to steal your thunder here, so to speak  :)
 
Hope things work out for you too real soon. I suppose the deadline you set for the girls is approaching? Any news or other plans for you lately Pat?

Yes i have a deadline.
 I want to finish here at first the analysis i've started. Don't worry for me i don't have any headache about this  ;D as i'm trained for a long time for such things. It's just "my contribution to the forum", try to bring something for guys (or newbies rather). Just like a loan for all i've found here, i want "to give back".
 
Now yes we are near of the deadline and i think i'm going to  open a new topic, second edition of this first one "Operation White Panther, 2nd edition".
 
I have any news from the girl. So it's simple.
No news, new adventure for the first two weeks of july.
 If i've news and if she is available in the first two weeks of july --> try to spend some vacation together
If she gives some news but if she is not available in july i'm going to make a secret travel anyways by my own. She don't deserve the exclusivity for the moment. She needs to earn it, time will show.
 
But really it's a bet and i have no idea of what will happen. I gave her too much interest i'm sure. But a lot of odds are above this problematic. Anyways the best thing i've done had been to stop all sms. I sent 4 i think and try to call one time, it's 2 sms wasted.
 
I've tried  to cross the bridge towards a building relation, using the pattern adult and child as described in transactionnal analysis. I know thAt a lot of FSU girls are capable to do it, and i think it's really worthly for both. She has missed to play her duty for the moment.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 17, 2011, 06:32:50 AM

Yes i have a deadline.
 I want to finish here at first the analysis i've started. Don't worry for me i don't have any headache about this  ;D as i'm trained for a long time for such things. It's just "my contribution to the forum", try to bring something for guys (or newbies rather). Just like a loan for all i've found here, i want "to give back".
 
Now yes we are near of the deadline and i think i'm going to  open a new topic, second edition of this first one "Operation White Panther, 2nd edition".
 
I have any news from the girl. So it's simple.
No news, new adventure for the first two weeks of july.
 If i've news and if she is available in the first two weeks of july --> try to spend some vacation together
If she gives some news but if she is not available in july i'm going to make a secret travel anyways by my own. She don't deserve the exclusivity for the moment. She needs to earn it, time will show.
 
But really it's a bet and i have no idea of what will happen. I gave her too much interest i'm sure. But a lot of odds are above this problematic. Anyways the best thing i've done had been to stop all sms. I sent 4 i think and try to call one time, it's 2 sms wasted.
 
I've tried  to cross the bridge towards a building relation, using the pattern adult and child as described in transactionnal analysis. I know thAt a lot of FSU girls are capable to do it, and i think it's really worthly for both. She has missed to play her duty for the moment.

Pat,

I know you probably won't take this advice because most men who "train" in the art of seduction and "claim" to have "game" get so obsessed with the potential that they completely miss the reality....  but, I've got to say:
Dump all of the artificial learnings you've been "trained in" and just be sincere and genuine.

I promise you,  genuine women are just looking for genuine men, and they can smell the tricks a mile off.

It doesn't mean that some men don't naturally act in a way that DOES attract certain types of women...  but I don't believe this is a learned behaviour.

I always wonder what would happen if one of these "trained men" ever did snag the girl of their dreams and then she works out he never did find that second edition of the book which teaches him how to continue being "this man" forever.

Something freaked your runaway bride out.  By all accounts that first meeting went exactly the way you'd been trained for it to go.  Maybe if you'd toned it down she would have stuck around.


Not trying to offend...  but I've seen this a lot with guys I know and I've not yet seen one of them find "true love" yet.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 17, 2011, 07:23:37 AM
Pat,

I know you probably won't take this advice because most men who "train" in the art of seduction and "claim" to have "game" get so obsessed with the potential that they completely miss the reality....  but, I've got to say:
Dump all of the artificial learnings you've been "trained in" and just be sincere and genuine.

I promise you,  genuine women are just looking for genuine men, and they can smell the tricks a mile off.

It doesn't mean that some men don't naturally act in a way that DOES attract certain types of women...  but I don't believe this is a learned behaviour.

I always wonder what would happen if one of these "trained men" ever did snag the girl of their dreams and then she works out he never did find that second edition of the book which teaches him how to continue being "this man" forever.

Something freaked your runaway bride out.  By all accounts that first meeting went exactly the way you'd been trained for it to go.  Maybe if you'd toned it down she would have stuck around.


Not trying to offend...  but I've seen this a lot with guys I know and I've not yet seen one of them find "true love" yet.


dear Kuna you are making interesting posts which let a lot of place for an arguing discussion.
I think you've missed some previous posts i've written about the topic (game, why seduction is not a can of paint to summarize? And if it's true so your  post is relevant, to make short).

So i'm pasting the post which shows, in my opinion, a good picture of what i think about the Game : (i would add others comments on a following post)

Few man get laid often
An a lot a few

These man are natural
Those who are not natural (or not really)  had work a lot
 
There a mistery around this attraction
The master of them are called PUA
Game is the name of this skill
Game is mastered for the very first meeting to few meetings. It doesn't help really in the long term relationship.

Real or false PUA, and all specialized forum deliver learning and informations to a lot of potential interested people (since 14 to ??).
Theory and practice are (for those who are not the natural PUA and for all who want to enhance theirs skill) the two roads to go. But learning without practice is totally ineffective.
Learning and practicing is a hard way. Many years are normally required.

Game add not only worth with woman, but also at work and with all social relationship in general. It's a way to modify, change, and have a better life, as powerful as psychoterapy.

About all who are interested fery vew will become PUA. A lot will improve their life anyways. A few will learn anything and will do counterproductives things.

Is the game raise the attraction ? Does the game allows you to date more women ? Yes. Do you have more pleasure with women (i don't speak about sex !) ? Yes. For all who had work, no doubt about results.

Does a woman detects a "good" player ? No. So believe, girls, that you will recognize him is a lie or a fairy tale to protect your proud.   Why ? Because he is not really playing, HE IS. He is what he had become : a worthly man.

After the player can choice, have a funny quarter of hour with her and dump her.
Share one hour with her and gets her phone number and dump her.
Spend one evening with her and return at home and dump her.
Spend a second evening with her and kiss and hugh her and dump her.
Make an ONS, the third evening (or the first evening) and dump her, OR NOT DUMP HER
And for the proud of all woman here, and because it's absolutely true, at each step of the process the girl CAN also dump the man, probably less than an ordinary guy but it happens : it's better to be HONEST about the reality of the field.
and the guy can begin after few weeks or few months a TRUE and REAL relationship oriented in the long term. Perhaps during this beginning as he is experienced he will do that a lot of AW do : he will keep all the same a lot of contacts like they usually do.

SO remember each big love story begins by one night in a bed (if you prefer in the forest or in a garage it's your problem)

So game is exactly like martial arts : you can fight on the car park of the disco each saturday night (f**ck few times per week --> ONS)
OR
you can lead your life to change your soul, your body, your food habits , have the right thinking, share your knolewdege and advice and help people in the tojo. --> As you take control of yourself and responsability of what you do, and as you meet a lot of girls with success you can choice the GOOD one, and be the GOOD one for her too.
 Exemple rather than say this girl is a bitch (she get laid with you neighbour, the hell's angel with the Harley) it's perhaps better to analyse your behavior, and try to understand what you did stupid. Exemple of stupids things wich decrease interest of any AW girls : calling her all the time in firsts days, doing always what she wants and with no delay, asking her what she want to do all time, asking her if he can leave her trouser before sex. Believe me, i had listening a lot of girls in my life, and they had met at least one time in their life this sort of guy acting in this way.


So it's important to understand game is a tool, who enhance forgotten skills. Your goal is what you aim. TBB aims a marriage relation. Me the same, and many guys here, on RWD, too. As i said game helps to enhance the worthy of the men in the few firsts meetings. In the marriage course, and as there are many cultural differences between AW and RW a lot of things are important too. I agree.

Now i would advice who don't know nothing about game and have only opinions, to search information and spend at least few weeks, and preferentially few months AND after they will express themself. Like searching a eastern/western partner it's a complicated, wiser, atypical and disturbing topic, too complicated to summarize in game = bad, game = ons.

Patagonie
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 17, 2011, 08:08:21 AM
Kuna, perhaps i'm wrong but your post lets me think that you are not entered too deeply in the Game, i mean that you have not reached all the facets, all components which enhance really a life, not the spiritual part, the whole bunch of efforts you have made on you, the daily improvement you can quickly see in your life and how many more interesting people you can have a relation with, and why it's a key to understand the huge failure of male/female relations in the west.
About the moral it's not the Game which is immoral, it's what you are doing with it.
What lets me think this (in the west ):
" I promise you,  genuine women are just looking for genuine men, and they can smell the tricks a mile off."
This is the first think who shocks me, it is absolutely false. They absolutely not smell the tricks because Game is absolutely and totally anchored with 2000 years of male/female interaction.

It doesn't mean that some men don't naturally act in a way that DOES attract certain types of women...  but I don't believe this is a learned behaviour.
The best is when there is no learned behaviour, but just a  "new" behavior wich replaces the new one (replaces the typical AFC demeanor). WE ARE TALKING from the pickup to the third or fourth meeting : NO MORE.

I always wonder what would happen if one of these "trained men" ever did snag the girl of their dreams and then she works out he never did find that second edition of the book which teaches him how to continue being "this man" forever.
If a guy is buying his seduction from a can of painting for sure he will not have the balls and the behavior to continue being "this man" forever. I agree.
Something freaked your runaway bride out.  By all accounts that first meeting went exactly the way you'd been trained for it to go.  Maybe if you'd toned it down she would have stuck around.
I think the problem is above the dating or the following communication. And if it has been i think quite the opposite, showing my genuiness by giving her too much interest had been not rewarding. For my genuine demeanor i have not been rewarded, it's the conclusion.
But really i think the key is more about she had had an other appointement in Moscow, with a guy she got acquainted for surely a longer time than me.

With my best friend we have analysed this :
1/ minus : why a 3 weeks scheduled in Moscow ? Too long, and when the sister will see her mother who lives in Dnepropetrovsk, do you imagine a sister, living so far, staying in Moscow, and not seing her mother ? There is something strange
2/ plus : Why a WM would go to Moscow ? He needs visa, Ukraine is more simple, and anyways it's better to go to Crimea in june, in Turkey, in Egypts ..... When you are in relation with a lady, she likes to travel. Or perhaps it's a russian man or a local one.

Without any more information for the moment... Don't  forget my deadline is not over for the moment, she is always in the delay.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 17, 2011, 10:02:01 AM
Kuna, perhaps i'm wrong but your post lets me think that you are not entered too deeply in the Game, i mean that you have not reached all the facets, all components which enhance really a life, not the spiritual part, the whole bunch of efforts you have made on you, the daily improvement you can quickly see in your life and how many more interesting people you can have a relation with, and why it's a key to understand the huge failure of male/female relations in the west.

Pat,  I never needed "The Game".  I learned about it in a very strange way from some one who also had this "new behaviour"...  but the only way he found what he was looking for was realising (I had to break it to him) that being himself - natural - comfortable - confident - strong - balanced - and most of all genuine, was the best way to catch a hottie!   :P

" I promise you,  genuine women are just looking for genuine men, and they can smell the tricks a mile off."
This is the first think who shocks me, it is absolutely false. They absolutely not smell the tricks because Game is absolutely and totally anchored with 2000 years of male/female interaction.

If you practice for the next 2000 years your "game" might he so fluent it almost appears natural...  until then,  smart women will always detect the tricks.  Women aren't stupid, and they are far more intuitive than men give them credit for.

I am sorry - but you are wrong.

It doesn't mean that some men don't naturally act in a way that DOES attract certain types of women...  but I don't believe this is a learned behaviour.
The best is when there is no learned behaviour, but just a  "new" behavior which replaces the new one (replaces the typical AFC demeanor). WE ARE TALKING from the pickup to the third or fourth meeting : NO MORE.
 

If you are learning how to manufacture this "new" behaviour - it's learned behaviour.  Women can smell it - and at times they may not be able to work out why they feel uncomfortable around players who practice what is in the book...  but they are still uncomfortable.

Something freaked your runaway bride out.  By all accounts that first meeting went exactly the way you'd been trained for it to go.  Maybe if you'd toned it down she would have stuck around.
I think the problem is above the dating or the following communication. And if it has been i think quite the opposite, showing my genuiness by giving her too much interest had been not rewarding. For my genuine demeanor i have not been rewarded, it's the conclusion.
 But really i think the key is more about she had had an other appointement in Moscow, with a guy she got acquainted for surely a longer time than me.
 

 Showing too much interest is not about being genuine...  it makes women sense you are desperate - even if you are just being too eager.  ::)

... and come on - you're into "The Game"...  you know all about "negging"...  Where is your game (when it is not a learned behaviour - you claim it's a new behaviour") when you're not negging her....

btw... I don't think negging works as such,  because when most men who learn this and practice it just sound insulting! Women don't like being insulted.

One final thing on this... and PLEASE don't feel like I'm bashing you - I'm just trying to snap you out of it and trying to help...  but... 

You've already come up with an excuse about a new boyfriend being the reason why she didn't respond to your repeated SMS's and phone call(s).  If you really had this "new behaviour" working so naturally, you wouldn't be making excuses for the loss...  and you wouldn't have been chasing her like a schoolboy.

Be calm Pat...  enjoy the experience... just brush off all the silliness and let the real Pat come out.  You will find women who appreciate it and won't need a second SMS before responding to you.

With my best friend we have analysed this :
 1/ minus : why a 3 weeks scheduled in Moscow ? Too long, and when the sister will see her mother who lives in Dnepropetrovsk, do you imagine a sister, living so far, staying in Moscow, and not seing her mother ? There is something strange
 

Yes, I believe this totally.  My wife is from Dnepropetrovsk and her sister lives in Moscow.  Her sister would NEVER go back to Dnepropetrovsk unless absolutely necessary because she thinks like many Muscovites now.

Actually,  my MIL lives in Moscow too...  and even she thinks like a Muscovite - which drives my wife nuts!

In short... let me explain this to you...

My BIL is wealthy,  but above all he is a "True Moscow Man" (he proclaimed this to me with such pride one day).

In his mind there really is a pecking order:

1. Moscow is the greatest city on earth and old Moscow families are the best people on earth. 
2. Next comes St Pete people, and;
3. Then the rest of Russia...
4. But then it gets confusing because "Ukraine is rubbish bin Kuna, rubbish bin - but Ukraine is better than USA. Kuna, strange but true, this is my thinking. Even this rubbish bin is better than USA."

I HAD to ask the question,  "[INSERT HIS NAME HERE], what do you think of Australians,  where do we fit?"

He was puzzled for half a second and then he looked at me very seriously and said, "You married to our family now Kuna,  you are my family,  you are like real Moscow man too now." and then with a big smile on his face,  "Just from this strange place with kangaroo."

So yes,  I do believe that if her sister is in a similar frame of mind as my SIL then she would rarely EVER go back to Ukraine.
 
by the way... you can't be sure she's even in Moscow can you???  She may have used Moscow like neo's date used the three year old child when he met her in Kharkov...

As direct as RW may be some times they won't always tell the truth if they are trying to avoid someone.

2/ plus : Why a WM would go to Moscow ? He needs visa, Ukraine is more simple, and anyways it's better to go to Crimea in june, in Turkey, in Egypts ..... When you are in relation with a lady, she likes to travel. Or perhaps it's a russian man or a local one.
 

You've create this excuse that your runaway bride is meeting a WM in Moscow...  crazy thinking...  but FWIW there are plenty of reasons why a WM would want to go to Moscow.  It is a wonderful city... there's so much to do... so much to see...  and I would go back without reservation at the very next opportunity no matter how much the visa was.

Pat,  she's not in Moscow with another man... she just didn't feel the same for you that you felt for her.  Even if she was with someone else there would be a spare moment to send the briefest sms to keep the fire burning.  I am only telling you the truth,  she's not responding because she's not interested.

btw...  even when you find "the one" do yourself a favour and spend most of your time with her in her city.  There is a lifetime of opportunities to travel to other locations - especially as you are in Europe.  A holiday during courting is OK,  but nothing will equal spending time with her in her city.
 
 
Without any more information for the moment... Don't  forget my deadline is not over for the moment, she is always in the delay.
 

I'm not sure what you mean by this but I've read in another post that you intend doing another trip soon - without her in your plans - but if she does contact you then you can still catch up???

Pat,  your "new behaviour" (the Game) is not as natural as you want to think it is.  Pat,  if you have even had an inkling that she is with another man the last thing you should be thinking of is ever meeting up with her again. Where is your pride?

Men with real power to date the hottest women don't care when one does not "happen"... they know there is a better one just around the corner.

I sincerely wish you all the best.
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 17, 2011, 01:17:49 PM
Pat,  I never needed "The Game".  I learned about it in a very strange way from some one who also had this "new behaviour"...  but the only way he found what he was looking for was realising (I had to break it to him) that being himself - natural - comfortable - confident - strong - balanced - and most of all genuine, was the best way to catch a hottie!   :P n.n.

Good you are describing exactly how a player is : being himself - natural - comfortable - confident - strong - balanced - and most of all genuine (This last one is also called congruence)

If you practice for the next 2000 years your "game" might he so fluent it almost appears natural...  until then,  smart women will always detect the tricks.  Women aren't stupid, and they are far more intuitive than men give them credit for.

I am sorry - but you are wrong.

Here i was having a doubt, but now i'm sure that you don't know shit, or almost shit.

I
If you are learning how to manufacture this "new" behaviour - it's learned behaviour.  Women can smell it - and at times they may not be able to work out why they feel uncomfortable around players who practice what is in the book...  but they are still uncomfortable..

See my comment above.

 Showing too much interest is not about being genuine...  it makes women sense you are desperate - even if you are just being too eager.  ::) .

I agree totally, it's a sort of behavior to avoid.

... and come on - you're into "The Game"...  you know all about "negging"...  Where is your game (when it is not a learned behaviour - you claim it's a new behaviour") when you're not negging her.....

I think that you miss something important i don't pratice neg. Here the community disagrees with the american theory and i technicaly don't practice it. And in the trip i don't think you can show a moment when i'm negging a women (provided that you know exactly what a neg is)

btw... I don't think negging works as such,  because when most men who learn this and practice it just sound insulting! Women don't like being insulted..

It seems that it can help for the US hotties, but in my opinion not,  see my comment above

One final thing on this... and PLEASE don't feel like I'm bashing you - I'm just trying to snap you out of it and trying to help...  but...  .

I begin to think for the moment that you have a superficial reading of what i'm saying, but of course my english language is perhaps not the best one and sometimes it can lets some lack of understanding.

You've already come up with an excuse about a new boyfriend being the reason why she didn't respond to your repeated SMS's and phone call(s).  If you really had this "new behaviour" working so naturally, you wouldn't be making excuses for the loss...  and you wouldn't have been chasing her like a schoolboy..

Coming with an excuse ? It's a heavy probability which can explain that she is no longer interested by me.
I will deceive you i'm not a robot, and i had really like my time with the girl i've met in Dnepropetrovsk for my last meeting. I managed more and more with my internal emotionnal state, and also you have to protect you. It's obvious that you are focusing about the game and not having understand the whole figure..
 

Be calm Pat...  enjoy the experience... just brush off all the silliness and let the real Pat come out.  You will find women who appreciate it and won't need a second SMS before responding to you..

Yes you are right, in a "genuine" relation you are waiting an answer, a non balanced relation never works. About the real Pat, he is writing now.

Yes, I believe this totally.  My wife is from Dnepropetrovsk and her sister lives in Moscow.  Her sister would NEVER go back to Dnepropetrovsk unless absolutely necessary because she thinks like many Muscovites now.


Perhaps i was not clear but her sister is not from Moscow, she lives in country very far from Russia. So all you are explaining below, in my opinion, even if it's valuables informations, and i thank you, is irrelevant..


Actually,  my MIL lives in Moscow too...  and even she thinks like a Muscovite - which drives my wife nuts!

In short... let me explain this to you...

My BIL is wealthy,  but above all he is a "True Moscow Man" (he proclaimed this to me with such pride one day).

In his mind there really is a pecking order:

1. Moscow is the greatest city on earth and old Moscow families are the best people on earth. 
2. Next comes St Pete people, and;
3. Then the rest of Russia...
4. But then it gets confusing because "Ukraine is rubbish bin Kuna, rubbish bin - but Ukraine is better than USA. Kuna, strange but true, this is my thinking. Even this rubbish bin is better than USA."

I HAD to ask the question,  "[INSERT HIS NAME HERE], what do you think of Australians,  where do we fit?"

He was puzzled for half a second and then he looked at me very seriously and said, "You married to our family now Kuna,  you are my family,  you are like real Moscow man too now." and then with a big smile on his face,  "Just from this strange place with kangaroo."

So yes,  I do believe that if her sister is in a similar frame of mind as my SIL then she would rarely EVER go back to Ukraine.
 
by the way... you can't be sure she's even in Moscow can you???  She may have used Moscow like neo's date used the three year old child when he met her in Kharkov....

You are right it's just a supposition.

As direct as RW may be some times they won't always tell the truth if they are trying to avoid someone..

I think for the moment i'm in a more confor

You've create this excuse that your runaway bride is meeting a WM in Moscow...  crazy thinking...  but FWIW there are plenty of reasons why a WM would want to go to Moscow.  It is a wonderful city... there's so much to do... so much to see...  and I would go back without reservation at the very next opportunity no matter how much the visa was.

Pat,  she's not in Moscow with another man... she just didn't feel the same for you that you felt for her.  Even if she was with someone else there would be a spare moment to send the briefest sms to keep the fire burning.  I am only telling you the truth,  she's not responding because she's not interested...

You are right, it's obvious, it's the logical conclusion.
And i've begun to open my eyes just few days after her departure of course. A lot of guys here had crossed their fingers for me but everybody knows that after so many days now, and without any news.... 
 

btw...  even when you find "the one" do yourself a favour and spend most of your time with her in her city.  There is a lifetime of opportunities to travel to other locations - especially as you are in Europe.  A holiday during courting is OK,  but nothing will equal spending time with her in her city..

I agree totally, it's better to spend time with her in her city, for many reasons that it is not needed to detail
 
 
I'm not sure what you mean by this but I've read in another post that you intend doing another trip soon - without her in your plans - but if she does contact you then you can still catch up???

Pat,  your "new behaviour" (the Game) is not as natural as you want to think it is.  Pat,  if you have even had an inkling that she is with another man the last thing you should be thinking of is ever meeting up with her again. Where is your pride ?

This not a question of pride, this a question of intelligence. You cannot score against a guy with who for example she had already spent two vacations. Because she has invested a lot of time, so even if she likes you she will continue in the other relation. A girl will not drop a relation for an other without knowing that you are a good suitor. To give you (her and you) some chances you must let her time to know you. And i'm not enough naïve to believe this one is lost alone at home spending her whole time seing th TV

Men with real power to date the hottest women don't care when one does not "happen"... they know there is a better one just around the corner.?

Men with real power are dating  hottest women and shift their attention as soon as something does'nt happen surely. But the human beings has a different meaning of the word soon wich can have in time different length. It seems to be that, as i'm aiming a marriage, a LTR, i'm giving more place to soon when an affair is promising. For what i know about myself, i consider it's important to manage emotionnaly disappointement and let time to vanish, so of course, after you find a better one around the corner, because you are clear
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on June 17, 2011, 04:58:59 PM
.....So i'm pasting the post which shows, in my opinion, a good picture of what i think about the Game : (i would add others comments on a following post)

Few man get laid often
An a lot a few

These man are natural
Those who are not natural (or not really)  had work a lot
 
There a mistery around this attraction
The master of them are called PUA
Game is the name of this skill
Game is mastered for the very first meeting to few meetings. It doesn't help really in the long term relationship....

Dang! Patagonie! You must've ordered the same material from the same source (or attended the same seminar) as another member here who wrote about this stuff in this very site not too long ago...
 
LOL, if there really is a market for this type of material, I must say hooray for the author! The wealth he'll amassed alone should be enough to gitdemwimmen. That's the Game in itself, I would think..fast don't lie!
 
OTOH, it's a pretty sad state of affairs for the many on the other side of the fence it seems...but at least there's much to look forward to these days I gather...
 
Anyway, I haven't read the entire thread but I do hope things work out great for you!
 
Above all else, have a great time!
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 17, 2011, 05:47:09 PM
I'm sorry Pat... I tried to help, but you don't understand.

I hope you don't have too many more failed trips to FSU before you realise you're on the wrong path.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 19, 2011, 02:12:58 PM
As i was without internet lasts days it had been not possible to correct my comments about Kuna's post. Some glow have had missing. So i want to correct my comments to allow a better understanding..
 
 Pat,  I never needed "The Game".  I learned about it in a very strange way from some one who also had this "new behaviour"...  but the only way he found what he was looking for was realising (I had to break it to him) that being himself - natural - comfortable - confident - strong - balanced - and most of all genuine, was the best way to catch a hottie!   (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/tongue.gif) n.n.

Good you are describing exactly how a player is : being himself - natural - comfortable - confident - strong - balanced - and most of all genuine (This last one is also called congruence)

If you practice for the next 2000 years your "game" might he so fluent it almost appears natural...  until then,  smart women will always detect the tricks.  Women aren't stupid, and they are far more intuitive than men give them credit for.

I am sorry - but you are wrong.

Here i was having a doubt, but now i'm sure that you don't know shit, or almost shit.


If you are learning how to manufacture this "new" behaviour - it's learned behaviour.  Women can smell it - and at times they may not be able to work out why they feel uncomfortable around players who practice what is in the book...  but they are still uncomfortable..

See my comment above.
Showing too much interest is not about being genuine...  it makes women sense you are desperate - even if you are just being too eager.  (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/rolleyes.gif) .

I agree totally, it's a sort of behavior to avoid.

... and come on - you're into "The Game"...  you know all about "negging"...  Where is your game (when it is not a learned behaviour - you claim it's a new behaviour") when you're not negging her.....

I think that you miss something important i don't pratice neg. Here the community disagrees with the american theory and i technicaly don't practice it. And in the trip i don't think you can show a moment when i'm negging a women (provided that you know exactly what a neg is)

btw... I don't think negging works as such,  because when most men who learn this and practice it just sound insulting! Women don't like being insulted..

It seems that it can help for the US hotties, but in my opinion not,  see my comment above

One final thing on this... and PLEASE don't feel like I'm bashing you - I'm just trying to snap you out of it and trying to help...  but...  .

I begin to think for the moment that you have a superficial reading of what i'm saying, but of course my english language is perhaps not the best one and sometimes it can lets some lack of understanding.

You've already come up with an excuse about a new boyfriend being the reason why she didn't respond to your repeated SMS's and phone call(s).  If you really had this "new behaviour" working so naturally, you wouldn't be making excuses for the loss...  and you wouldn't have been chasing her like a schoolboy..

Coming with an excuse ? It's a heavy probability which can explain that she is no longer interested by me.
I will deceive you i'm not a robot, and i had really like my time with the girl i've met in Dnepropetrovsk for my last meeting. I managed more and more with my internal emotionnal state, and also i have to protect myself. It's obvious that you are focusing about the game and not having understood the whole figure..
 

Be calm Pat...  enjoy the experience... just brush off all the silliness and let the real Pat come out.  You will find women who appreciate it and won't need a second SMS before responding to you..

Yes you are right, in a "genuine" relation you are waiting an answer, a non balanced relation never works. About the real Pat, he is writing now.

Yes, I believe this totally.  My wife is from Dnepropetrovsk and her sister lives in Moscow.  Her sister would NEVER go back to Dnepropetrovsk unless absolutely necessary because she thinks like many Muscovites now.


Perhaps i was not clear but her sister is not from Moscow, she lives in country very far from Russia. So all you are explaining below, in my opinion, even if it's valuables informations, and i thank you, is irrelevant..


Actually,  my MIL lives in Moscow too...  and even she thinks like a Muscovite - which drives my wife nuts!

In short... let me explain this to you...

My BIL is wealthy,  but above all he is a "True Moscow Man" (he proclaimed this to me with such pride one day).

In his mind there really is a pecking order:

1. Moscow is the greatest city on earth and old Moscow families are the best people on earth. 
2. Next comes St Pete people, and;
3. Then the rest of Russia...
4. But then it gets confusing because "Ukraine is rubbish bin Kuna, rubbish bin - but Ukraine is better than USA. Kuna, strange but true, this is my thinking. Even this rubbish bin is better than USA."

I HAD to ask the question,  "[INSERT HIS NAME HERE], what do you think of Australians,  where do we fit?"

He was puzzled for half a second and then he looked at me very seriously and said, "You married to our family now Kuna,  you are my family,  you are like real Moscow man too now." and then with a big smile on his face,  "Just from this strange place with kangaroo."

So yes,  I do believe that if her sister is in a similar frame of mind as my SIL then she would rarely EVER go back to Ukraine.
 
by the way... you can't be sure she's even in Moscow can you???  She may have used Moscow like neo's date used the three year old child when he met her in Kharkov....

You are right it's just a supposition
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 19, 2011, 02:40:36 PM
Dang! Patagonie! You must've ordered the same material from the same source (or attended the same seminar) as another member here who wrote about this stuff in this very site not too long ago...
 
LOL, if there really is a market for this type of material, I must say hooray for the author! The wealth he'll amassed alone should be enough to gitdemwimmen. That's the Game in itself, I would think..fast don't lie!
 
OTOH, it's a pretty sad state of affairs for the many on the other side of the fence it seems...but at least there's much to look forward to these days I gather...
 
Anyway, I haven't read the entire thread but I do hope things work out great for you!
 
Above all else, have a great time!

 
Hi GQ !
 You are right there is a market for this, and some are making reals profits around this business. I think they desserve it. But the problem is more about all others who try to do the same, saying they are pua, and are making their own training workshop, with probably not predictable results.
 And a lot of guys are trying by themselves with a quick reading of the topic, believing that it's like cooking, just need to know some recipes, and Hop, it will work. Now,  more and more guys are coming with the same sentences to introduce themelves in the first beginning of the pick up (canned stuff), and in some very social pubs girls begin to hear the same things and detect the stuff. A lot in guys' endeavors seem strange (no enough calibration)....
 
 
What it is gitdemwimmen ? I don't know. 
 Thank you for your support GQ, yes the better is to (try) enjoy every moment of our (too shortly) life.
Pat
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 19, 2011, 03:43:39 PM
I'm sorry Pat... I tried to help, but you don't understand.

I hope you don't have too many more failed trips to FSU before you realise you're on the wrong path.

Good luck.
.
 
Kuna.
 [correct me if i'm wrong]
I've read your story, if i summarize you had made a good questionning about yourself and what you were expecting from a girl. After, during the correspondance ,you had made a hard sort  to keep few challengers and you have been enough good to lost any among yours visits. You saw twice  (normally three, but it seems to me that one didn't show in Kiev). And you performed it during your first trip directly, no more than 3 weeks if i have good memory.
 In your country, previously, you had performed well with chicks. .
 I consider you like a strong guy who had make a good job, quickly. Some can say that you have been (expression of KenC which i don't remember like one week wonder or seeker, correct me if i'm wrong). But your marriage today shows that you have made a good choice, and a lot of people dreams to get the same story.
  About your acquaintance/buddy, i don't know him, but it's obvious that he hadn't performed a very talentuous game in front of you. Even probably you had had better results. I don't know what he had explained and what he had showed but if you rely on him to consider that you have a knowledge of the Game, i can say that the result is that you know in fact almost shit.
 
I'm going to give you two things which shows it :
  One of the gold rule is to always come under the radar, elseif you crash (play again)...
  The second is that comfort is one of the most important thing in seduction. I'm going to ask you (minus hooker, just a supposition formulated by me, as i have never use one), have you ever had sex with a woman who is uncomfortable with you ?
 
To summarize you are trying to say to me, hey guy drop game if you want to success in FSU. And me i'm answering, hey guy i will drop anything as you know almost shit about this damned thing, and last three years and half of my live showed me how it's accurate and how it has improved my life.
Of course FSU scene is a little different, the goal is also different, so i've to fit and adapt myself to something we would say "more simple". And as game is only accurate for the first meetings, a lot of things are more  important in the long term rather than the game.
 In FSU, something i really appreciate is the possibility to discuss quiclky around the very serious topics of a future union, which is absolutely impossible to do with a western woman (she would flee after twenty seconds).
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on June 20, 2011, 12:08:23 PM
....What it is gitdemwimmen ? I don't know. 
 Thank you for your support GQ, yes the better is to (try) enjoy every moment of our (too shortly) life.

It's a more of a stab at some of the colloquial urban-speak here in the US. I'm not sure if the root of the phrase has ebonic roots or redneck, but get them women, imply *getting more than just women's attention*.
 
As for the 'game', I suppose it's good and likely had done more than folks realize. Because of it, many had likely done more than they ever did before and that is to get out there and bust'a move (that's make the first step).
 
I caution you however, something that structured can not be a good thing as you already mentioned one of it's fratfalls. The undeniable common denominators with many real life PUAs is their innate ability to improvise as different conditions/situations present itself.
 
You just can't teach sexy, IMHO.  ;)
 
Good luck Pat!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on June 20, 2011, 12:56:18 PM
Pat,

IMO Pick Up Artist methods are for guys who lack natural confidence.  So these methods may be helpful for you to learn things which may increase your confidence.  However you must not try to become somebody you are not.  Women like men with genuine confidence, honesty. and ability to be vulnerable and romantic at certain times.  If you refuse to ever be vulnerable to a woman's charms it may be detrimental.  Also, if you try to be somebody you are not, eventually she will see this and relationship will end.  So be careful with that stuff, and good luck.  I never read it or used it, I just learned over the years to be more confident with myself and that alone worked for me.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 20, 2011, 04:07:35 PM

It's a more of a stab at some of the colloquial urban-speak here in the US. I'm not sure if the root of the phrase has ebonic roots or redneck, but get them women, imply *getting more than just women's attention*.
 
As for the 'game', I suppose it's good and likely had done more than folks realize. Because of it, many had likely done more than they ever did before and that is to get out there and bust'a move (that's make the first step).
 
I caution you however, something that structured can not be a good thing as you already mentioned one of it's fratfalls. The undeniable common denominators with many real life PUAs is their innate ability to improvise as different conditions/situations present itself.
 
You just can't teach sexy, IMHO.  ;)
 
Good luck Pat!
.
Thank you GQ.  ;)
 
I'm now entering in the very secret word of the urban US words. :D So my english is improving, so next time, rather than say i've a crush, i would say i bust a move  :clapping: .  ;)
I will tell to my english teacher next sunday to see his face.  :) .  ;)
I like yours post GQ cool.
About PUA i don't consider myself as one, really. I just want to say you are right, before each travel i try to structure and schedule (logistic mainly), but really if events need i will not stick to the plan.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on June 20, 2011, 04:39:59 PM
....so next time, rather than say i've a crush, i would say i bust a move ....I will tell to my english teacher next sunday to see his face....

LOL Pat...don't do that!!! I got a D- from Gator's English class and he was in a good mood at the time!
 
If you can keep your emotions in check on-demand, then you've won half your battles. You'll be able to stay control of many situations when you give your heart a break and let your brain do the thinking, man. That's what they are for anyway...
 
You know what you want and you know what it takes and you know your worth. I am not telling you anything you don't already know, so just take care and have fun!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 21, 2011, 06:41:29 AM

LOL Pat...don't do that!!! I got a D- from Gator's English class and he was in a good mood at the time!
 
If you can keep your emotions in check on-demand, then you've won half your battles. You'll be able to stay control of many situations when you give your heart a break and let your brain do the thinking, man. That's what they are for anyway...
 
You know what you want and you know what it takes and you know your worth. I am not telling you anything you don't already know, so just take care and have fun!
Yes i know Gator i was with him in class too. I had always preferred to be near a good pupil, i had had always better marks near a good pupil. Thank you Gator  :applaud: :ROFL:
See know Operation White Panther 2nd edition if you want to know more. Now it's time for a second trip.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 21, 2011, 08:02:29 AM
have you ever had sex with a woman who is uncomfortable with you ?

OF COURSE!  Haven't you? Women have sex with men for all different reasons and sometimes a woman may WANT to feel "uncomfortable" with a man she submits to...   :P :P

The problem Pat is all the learned behaviour and the routines you practice to make perfect will make you blind to a woman's real feelings and reactions while you are "creating seduction".

Like I said earlier... I think men, ALL MEN, will do better with women when they are just themselves.

Those men that have zero experience with women will be so immobile with fear that they are certain to fail... but being immobile with fear is not "being themselves".

No need to continue this discussion... I have proved I am right... you're still learning.

If you're off on your next trip soon you'll have some clothes to match up with shoes and stuff.  Busy times.

Good luck... I genuinely mean that.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 21, 2011, 08:23:23 AM
Pat,

IMO Pick Up Artist methods are for guys who lack natural confidence.  So these methods may be helpful for you to learn things which may increase your confidence.  However you must not try to become somebody you are not.  Women like men with genuine confidence, honesty. and ability to be vulnerable and romantic at certain times.  If you refuse to ever be vulnerable to a woman's charms it may be detrimental.  Also, if you try to be somebody you are not, eventually she will see this and relationship will end.  So be careful with that stuff, and good luck.  I never read it or used it, I just learned over the years to be more confident with myself and that alone worked for me.
+2
You are right, if you are not what you are showing, later or sooner the girl will detect it.
To be more confident is especially important, and you can use a lot of tools to achieve it.
To be cut from yours emotions involves you are not really human, live a real life and protect yourself from pain is a difficult balance. I agree totally Rubicon.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 21, 2011, 12:01:17 PM
OF COURSE!  Haven't you? Women have sex with men for all different reasons and sometimes a woman may WANT to feel "uncomfortable" with a man she submits to...   :P :P


Ouch... so now we have you sub-categorized Kuna. Pun intended  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 21, 2011, 05:34:43 PM

Ouch... so now we have you sub-categorized Kuna. Pun intended  ;D
;D. My response was controversial on purpose but the truth is that women are interested in men at different times for different reasons. The problem for people following these 'routines' is that their script doesn't help them adjust their behavior according to the situation.

Take pat's last lady. He was so over the moon with her and felt like his routine ran perfectly but something made her run. He didn't pick up on it at the time because he was proably mire into his routine that her.

If he was just being natural and himself they may have had a more genuine interaction and she may have decided differently. Maybe not, but I'd suggest in this case the routine won the man instead of the man winning the lady.

All subjective of course because only she know why she lost interest.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 22, 2011, 02:33:30 AM
;D . My response was controversial on purpose but the truth is that women are interested in men at different times for different reasons. The problem for people following these 'routines' is that their script doesn't help them adjust their behavior according to the situation.


Take pat's last lady. He was so over the moon with her and felt like his routine ran perfectly but something made her run. He didn't pick up on it at the time because he was proably mire into his routine that her.

I don't use routine because routines are almost only for the pick up in the first minute. So as this lady has been introduced by the agency, i hadn't need to "pick up" her. And the problem of routines is that many guys are using the same now so girls detect you at first time. The purpose of routine is to avoid the stall moment and let you more ressources to manage your BL and all signals sent by the woman. Also it helps you to unraise your nervousness. Kuna,  rather than speak about something that it's obvious that  you have no knowledge, send me a PM before, thanks. 

If he was just being natural and himself they may have had a more genuine interaction and she may have decided differently. Maybe not, but I'd suggest in this case the routine won the man instead of the man winning the lady.


All subjective of course because only she know why she lost interest.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 22, 2011, 04:35:48 AM
Pat,

I've tried to be nice to you so far... I've tried to be supportive...  I've tried gently to give you advice and you've turned all nasty.  I know you're french but that's still not very nice.   8)

It's evident now that you're here just because you want to have your ideas validated.  We see that quite often in here and the outcome is almost always the same.  Train-wreck.

There have been some absolute whack-jobs come through here with any number of moronic ideas and they usually end up being very defensive, and often agressive,  but it almost always turns ut the same way.  Please don't follow their path.  You really don't need to go through that crap.

Here's a very honest piece of advice for you.  Don't reject uncomfortable advice when offered to you because there are many different approaches, perspectives and realities about this adventure.  If you out and out reject something because it makes you feel uncomfortable then you are ignoring something that may be very important.

Kuna
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 22, 2011, 06:43:09 AM
Pat,

I've tried to be nice to you so far... I've tried to be supportive...  I've tried gently to give you advice and you've turned all nasty.  I know you're french but that's still not very nice.   8)


Kuna, perhaps you don't like when someone is arguing with you, perhaps you don't like to learn  news things.

It's evident now that you're here just because you want to have your ideas validated.  We see that quite often in here and the outcome is almost always the same.  Train-wreck.

Everybody like to be validate (it's important to be accepted, humans are socials creatures), but sometimes the critic is good, and i'm listening now or later others, when it's relevant. I've learnt a lot with people, trying to compare and to know about their lifes. See Patagonie second edition, you will see that i'm not so stubborn, and thanks to ManLooking who's written a very pertinent post, (several in fact), which  i'm going to take in account. And in this second topic i'm auto critizing myself thanking Gator, ManLooking and Rubicon too. So perhaps i'm more open than you can imagine.

There have been some absolute whack-jobs come through here with any number of moronic ideas and they usually end up being very defensive, and often agressive,  but it almost always turns ut the same way.  Please don't follow their path.  You really don't need to go through that crap.

Here's a very honest piece of advice for you.  Don't reject uncomfortable advice when offered to you because there are many different approaches, perspectives and realities about this adventure.  If you out and out reject something because it makes you feel uncomfortable then you are ignoring something that may be very important.

I think your advice is very honest and i thank you but i think it's not relevant.
"If you out and out reject something because it makes you feel uncomfortable then you are ignoring something that may be very important."
You are right this is something we have a natural tendancy to do. And it's difficult to fight against. It's why experience and maturity help.

I just invite you to read again which words you are using in this post :  you're french but that's still not very nice, whack-jobs, moronic ideas.
Have a nice day, Pat.

Kuna
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 25, 2011, 12:20:46 AM
Kuna, perhaps you don't like when someone is arguing with you, perhaps you don't like to learn  news things.

Pat, 

You're got nothing to teach me. 

I'll enjoy watching your future posts and the "very likely" outcomes.  Nothing is guaranteed of course... but based on your mentality you're well on the path of discomfort.

Kuna
(the happily married one, who didn't spend most of his preparation arranging clothing)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 03, 2011, 09:07:26 AM
A lot of FSU women don't have a real idea of what is the cost of this sort of travel, financially, in time vacation, emotionally and it's not resting at all. So for some (or many?) your time is free. The time you offerer to her, in particular in a VM, if she don't get it, she excludes herself from the race. GIRLS : when a guy shows, and if he is challenger, you must priorize him high in your time, as possible, even if you have had any contact before, and try to spend with him as MANY time AS POSSIBLE .

Patagonie, you just didn't understand her reply. It wasn't the case of her being stupid, or irrational. She politely (in a Ukrainian politeness style) told you: "I am not interested in meeting with you."
You are trying to teach the woman how to spend "as many time as possible" with the man, while the woman doesn't plan to spend any time with this man at all.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 04, 2011, 02:53:27 PM
Patagonie, you just didn't understand her reply. It wasn't the case of her being stupid, or irrational. She politely (in a Ukrainian politeness style) told you: "I am not interested in meeting with you."
You are trying to teach the woman how to spend "as many time as possible" with the man, while the woman doesn't plan to spend any time with this man at all.

If you speak about CaptainOfCustoms,
You are yet right, she was not enough interested.
Guys listen Mies : here she is explaining about the Ukrainian politeness style. And some guys are not understanding because women try to stay very polite and kind.
In Europe they are more harsh by finding moronic pretexts.

About what i was saying, it's true that sometimes girls in FSU are loosing the sense of the time, their time is not the same as the time of the man, but for this one time is really counted. (it was what i want to mean)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on July 05, 2011, 01:54:01 AM
Guys listen Mies : here she is explaining about the Ukrainian politeness style. And some guys are not understanding because women try to stay very polite and kind.
In Europe they are more harsh by finding moronic pretexts.

An Ukrainian girl once told me about this guy that she met after writing with him. When she met him, she was disappointed by his rather old age. He had sent her very old photos of himself. She told me about their meetings and I asked her why she continued to meet him when she wasn't interested in him. She answered she didn't want to be impolite!
 
I'm not a long time player here, but I have found that if a girl is really interested in you, there is no doubt in your mind about it. You will know that she's really interested in you and will show it in so many ways, it's fantastic. I have never continued over time contact with girls that were less than very interested in me and have thus avoided spending months wondering about her.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 05, 2011, 02:00:17 PM

An Ukrainian girl once told me about this guy that she met after writing with him. When she met him, she was disappointed by his rather old age. He had sent her very old photos of himself. She told me about their meetings and I asked her why she continued to meet him when she wasn't interested in him. She answered she didn't want to be impolite!
 
I'm not a long time player here, but I have found that if a girl is really interested in you, there is no doubt in your mind about it. You will know that she's really interested in you and will show it in so many ways, it's fantastic. I have never continued over time contact with girls that were less than very interested in me and have thus avoided spending months wondering about her.
In real life not so much women are REALLY interested. This is true, i agree, so better to focus in a long term relation ship to those who are really interested.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on July 05, 2011, 02:40:38 PM
As the saying goes, "A man will know if a RW likes him."  The RW I met did not play "hard to get" games. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 08, 2011, 11:37:45 AM
As the saying goes, "A man will know if a RW likes him."  The RW I met did not play "hard to get" games.
I agree this a general rule, but you must balance by  :
How many meetings she had had with foreigners
How many time she had lived abroad
How many time she has spend in social event (locally)
And how beautiful she is.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on July 14, 2011, 07:18:52 PM
As the saying goes, "A man will know if a RW likes him."  The RW I met did not play "hard to get" games.

or if she doesn't like him and you should take her first criticism and rebukes seriously as she doesn't play any game at all. Also beware of the folding couches  ;D

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/09/us-couch-idUSL0919437820080709 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/09/us-couch-idUSL0919437820080709)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on July 14, 2011, 09:08:53 PM
I agree this a general rule, but you must balance by  :
How many meetings she had had with foreigners
How many time she had lived abroad
How many time she has spend in social event (locally)
And how beautiful she is.

Good report so far Patagonie. Keep it coming and if and when you get a chance, some good photos will be stupendous!. Not of inanimate objects or statue of Lenin standing up, Lenin holding a book, Lenin up on a horse...but you know, good 'live' photos to accompany the players in the story.. ;)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 14, 2011, 09:14:03 PM
I agree this a general rule, but you must balance by  :
How many meetings she had had with foreigners
How many time she had lived abroad
How many time she has spend in social event (locally)
And how beautiful she is.


Why? Generally, a woman who falls for you will do it within the first minute. I can't see why a woman who is smitten would play coy no matter how many foreigners she has met or how often or how long she has lived abroad  ::)  My wife's father lives in Germany, she visited Germany and Europe many times and of course met many men (and women and children) when in Germany. I still knew the first date even if she had spend close to two years total in Europe and was very beautiful  :-X
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 14, 2011, 09:39:29 PM

Why? Generally, a woman who falls for you will do it within the first minute. I can't see why a woman who is smitten would play coy no matter how many foreigners she has met or how often or how long she has lived abroad   . . . .

I have seen this stated often, but I am not so sure about it.

I can remember instances with two women.  One was somewhat 'standoffish' for almost the entire first date (first 4 hours or so of it).  Then, I did something (won't say what) and she melted into me.

The second was fairly 'standoffish' for almost 3 dates.  I only went on the latter 2 with her because I had nothing else to do and didn't want to be by myself.  She also turned into a real romantic and we are still 'together.'  So go figure.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2011, 10:16:27 AM

Good report so far Patagonie. Keep it coming and if and when you get a chance, some good photos will be stupendous!. Not of inanimate objects or statue of Lenin standing up, Lenin holding a book, Lenin up on a horse...but you know, good 'live' photos to accompany the players in the story.. ;)
:ROFL: :ROFL:
I think i go far in description and what about i think. The problem of privates photos is that they are .....  private. I mean, showing a face is for me something really tricky. Question of respect. I can perhaps show their back  :ROFL:
Tank you for your support.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2011, 10:20:35 AM
or if she doesn't like him and you should take her first criticism and rebukes seriously as she doesn't play any game at all. Also beware of the folding couches  ;D

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/09/us-couch-idUSL0919437820080709 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/09/us-couch-idUSL0919437820080709)
Yes we can say that they doesn't play any games when it's time to rebuke the man.
OlgaH, i never had a folding couch so i can escape by any direction (except wall side).
 :P 8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2011, 10:45:42 AM

Why? Generally, a woman who falls for you will do it within the first minute. I can't see why a woman who is smitten would play coy no matter how many foreigners she has met or how often or how long she has lived abroad  ::)  My wife's father lives in Germany, she visited Germany and Europe many times and of course met many men (and women and children) when in Germany. I still knew the first date even if she had spend close to two years total in Europe and was very beautiful  :-X
We are going in a huge topic, i'm afraid of. You are using a single example whereas i speak in general manner.
To make short, women in the west start slowly in a relationship, quite the opposite of men.

More time she (FSU woman) spends in international dating and more  prone she will to play the hard to get game.
Any time her ego is boosted (local social events, travels outside FSU, tons of meeting with foreigners) and more prone she will be to play hard to get (i don't say prouder she will be, i said ego).
What is the main difference between FSU women and western women ?????
Tell me guys : EGO. Why western  big ass full of fat think they are stars ? EGO. Quite the contrary with FSU women.
Push a FSU go along the western life (many guys chasing few women) and EGO will increase. So it's why western chicks, and in particular the cute women, play hard to get.
INDEPENDANTLY of her personnality and the time needed to win the woman (the theory says in average eights hours in western standards)
Tell me why divorced fsu girls in Europe and USA want an age gap really less important than in FSU ? Tell me fellows, because they understood their new value, their ego have raised.
The problem is that we have chicks here  who think that  they are diamonds whereas they are not even a 7, with nothing special. And they believe they are specials.
It's why masters (pua) have created the neg. The neg is only done to decrease the ego of such gals (9 category in general, but depends also of the EGO of the girl). The game is done to raise your value and decrease her in the first beginning of the pick up.
Pat. I have a lot to say, probably episode 2. Sincerely.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 15, 2011, 10:57:04 AM
I have seen this stated often, but I am not so sure about it.

I can remember instances with two women.  One was somewhat 'standoffish' for almost the entire first date (first 4 hours or so of it).  Then, I did something (won't say what) and she melted into me.

The second was fairly 'standoffish' for almost 3 dates.  I only went on the latter 2 with her because I had nothing else to do and didn't want to be by myself.  She also turned into a real romantic and we are still 'together.'  So go figure.

Sometimes, from what I have observed, the feelings are there, but women do their best to repress them. Other times a woman may decide that a man is right for her without having fallen in love. Occasionally, it may happen a bit later. Personally, in my opinion and based solely on my lived experience that may not apply to everybody as there might be an exception somewhere (sorry, I have to satisfy the pedants), if a woman is not showing strong emotions or interest by the end of the third date, it is best to move on...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2011, 11:55:42 AM
Sometimes, from what I have observed, the feelings are there, but women do their best to repress them. Other times a woman may decide that a man is right for her without having fallen in love. Occasionally, it may happen a bit later. Personally, in my opinion and based solely on my lived experience that may not apply to everybody as there might be an exception somewhere (sorry, I have to satisfy the pedants), if a woman is not showing strong emotions or interest by the end of the third date, it is best to move on...
+1
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 15, 2011, 04:47:29 PM
Misha:  "Generally, a woman who falls for you will do it within the first minute."

ML then gives his experience.

New Misha: ". . . if a woman is not showing strong emotions or interest by the end of the third date, it is best to move on..."
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 15, 2011, 04:53:44 PM
Misha:  "Generally, a woman who falls for you will do it within the first minute."

ML then gives his experience.

New Misha: ". . . if a woman is not showing strong emotions or interest by the end of the third date, it is best to move on..."


Yes, and that is why I used the word "Generally" in my post, and yes, I actually read other people's comments, think about them, and sometimes even come to agree with what they said, even changing my opinion from time to time on a given topic....


  :shock:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on July 15, 2011, 05:21:10 PM

Push a FSU go along the western life (many guys chasing few women) and EGO will increase. So it's why western chicks, and in particular the cute women, play hard to get.
INDEPENDANTLY of her personnality and the time needed to win the woman (the theory says in average eights hours in western standards)
Tell me why divorced fsu girls in Europe and USA want an age gap really less important than in FSU ? Tell me fellows, because they understood their new value, their ego have raised.
The problem is that we have chicks here  who think that  they are diamonds whereas they are not even a 7, with nothing special. And they believe they are specials.
 

Well, I am a single FSU woman in Canada, and not sure that I understand what you mean should happen to my ego. :) I see that I do have choices in men here. But as far as my being 'special' is concerned, I am still the same as I used to be all my life. What has changed in terms of dating, is the number of local men who might be interested in me. No additions to my 'value', in fact.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 16, 2011, 12:50:32 AM
Well, I am a single FSU woman in Canada, and not sure that I understand what you mean should happen to my ego. :) I see that I do have choices in men here. But as far as my being 'special' is concerned, I am still the same as I used to be all my life. What has changed in terms of dating, is the number of local men who might be interested in me. No additions to my 'value', in fact.

You are still the same - yes, as far as you are concerned, because obviously you believe that you have changed little over the years.  However, to the locals (whether in Toronto or further afield) you are still an exotic newcomer.  For that reason at least, assuming that you identify yourself as Russian, you will probably generate a little more interest than a Canadian woman of the same age and level of beauty who many men will pass up as "familiar."
 
As for the distances involved, think of those of us who have travelled from Australia or New Zealand to western Russia and Ukraine, or from the USA to central Siberia, to find our "dream woman" (or who have been disappointed when they meet her).  It makes your story of guys reluctant to travel all the way across Toronto (30 km?) seem extremely unlikely candidates for any "How far I went to meet my FSU wife" competition!  :cluebat:
 
As for "special" - you have travelled halfway around the world, leaving what sounds like a very interesting job (to me, anyway), to try to fulfil your own personal quest in a country where you knew nobody and spoke little of the language.  That you have mostly succeeded (your English is now great, and in a couple of years, maybe less, you will be a full member of the Canadian Bar) makes you a VERY special lady in my eyes.  What a shame that the local guys don't recognise such a quality jewel in their midst!  :flowers:
 
It would be nice to think that in a few months your status may change to "committed," all because some nice Canadian man actually followed through on his first impulse when seeing your photo.
 
My apologies Pat - didn't really mean to hijack the thread, but some women just don't recognise a good thing when they look in the mirror!  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on July 16, 2011, 06:47:50 AM
Thank you so much Anotherkiwi for your kindness! The point of RW being 'exotic' for Americans might be interesting, though. My post was a reaction to the Pat's observation that RW change as soon as they start their lives in the West. Pat believes that this is because the dating dynamics shifts and their desirability change.On my part, I don't understand how multiple signs of attention from men can have any influence on the ego. And I am a RW in the West, I don't quite agree with Pat on this :)  although exceptions may happen.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 16, 2011, 06:54:57 PM
On my part, I don't understand how multiple signs of attention from men can have any influence on the ego.

Lily, I can't believe you wrote such words. :o

I think it is quite common (and quite understandable why) that people (both men and women) do start feeling differently (whether we want to refer to ego or something else) when they start getting more attention from opposite gender.

Actually, most of us start thinking differently about ourself when we get attention from even one person.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on July 16, 2011, 07:43:02 PM
Lily, I can't believe you wrote such words. :o

I think it is quite common (and quite understandable why) that people (both men and women) do start feeling differently (whether we want to refer to ego or something else) when they start getting more attention from opposite gender.

Actually, most of us start thinking differently about ourself when we get attention from even one person.

You're assuming she is driven by ego in the first place.  I know many people so driven by logic that ego is well contained in their lives.

Different strokes for different folks.

There's no doubt many people (men and women) change when they immigrate but it doesn't mean their ego will grow exponentially just because they have more options.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 16, 2011, 08:27:10 PM

Why? Generally, a woman who falls for you will do it within the first minute. I can't see why a woman who is smitten would play coy no matter how many foreigners she has met or how often or how long she has lived abroad  ::)  My wife's father lives in Germany, she visited Germany and Europe many times and of course met many men (and women and children) when in Germany. I still knew the first date even if she had spend close to two years total in Europe and was very beautiful  :-X

Misha, I will have to disagree with you on this one, especially if you are talking about WMVM international dating. Ask your wife the meaning of:
- быстрота нужна при ловле блох
- "Скоро только кошки родятся" (from the "12 chairs" book)

Showing within the first minute that she fell for a guy, while knowing that the guy is probably seeing 3-5 other women today might get a woman to bed with this guy, but not very likely will make her competitive with other 3-5 women and increase her chances for marrying this guy. Plus, keep in mind that not all women want to compete, some want to be "the only ones," want to see how this particular guy is serious about them, and whether they are his #1 on a list, or make sure that he does not have the lengthy list of ranked women, before they show him any sort of affection or strong interest.
What you may take for "woman being into you" can be common among ukrainian and russian women "politeness". It can mean something, or it can mean nothing.     


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on July 16, 2011, 08:28:29 PM
Lily, I can't believe you wrote such words. :o

I think it is quite common (and quite understandable why) that people (both men and women) do start feeling differently (whether we want to refer to ego or something else) when they start getting more attention from opposite gender.

Actually, most of us start thinking differently about ourself when we get attention from even one person.

Feeling differently, yes. But how can we think differently about ourselves when we receive more attention from other people? We are still the same, not better and not worse, only the situation is now in our favor.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 16, 2011, 08:41:58 PM
Feeling differently, yes. But how can we think differently about ourselves when we receive more attention from other people? We are still the same, not better and not worse, only the situation is now in our favor.

Watch this movie when you get a chance:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfUt8bN0zc0[/youtube]

 I think this is what ManLooking and Patagonie meant.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
However, to the locals (whether in Toronto or further afield) you are still an exotic newcomer. 

Half of Toronto's population is foreign born, so foreigners are not particularly exotic there.

Sorry, Patagonie, for hijacking your thread.  I hope your trip is still going well, and I look forward to your posts on your continued success.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 16, 2011, 11:25:33 PM
Misha, I will have to disagree with you on this one, especially if you are talking about WMVM international dating. Ask your wife the meaning of:
- быстрота нужна при ловле блох
- "Скоро только кошки родятся" (from the "12 chairs" book)


Why should I ask my wife, I am perfectly capable of reading Russian. The fact of the matter is that attraction is decided quite quickly and most often it is unconscious and we are processing information that we do not know we are gathering and without even knowing we are doing it. The BBC has a fascinating set of articles on the science of falling in love that I would recommend:


A quote:
Quote
It can take between 90 seconds and 4 minutes to decide if we fancy someone. But this has little to do with your smooth-talking. As far as attraction goes, here's how we get the message:
  • 55% is through body language
  • 38% is the tone and speed of our voice[/size][/font][/color]
  • Only 7% is through what we say

I have never timed how long it takes for a cat to give birth to kittens, but it would certainly take more than 90 seconds and perhaps even more than 4 minutes ;)


This as described by the BBC matches my experience. Either attraction is there or it isn't and usually the falling in love stage happens quickly or it doesn't. Of course, it takes time for the falling in love phase to be replaced by a love that is more than hormonal.


Quote
Showing within the first minute that she fell for a guy, while knowing that the guy is probably seeing 3-5 other women today might get a woman to bed with this guy, but not very likely will make her competitive with other 3-5 women and increase her chances for marrying this guy.


Sure, she can fake it, but generally if it is real, the man should hopefully be able to figure it out.


Quote
What you may take for "woman being into you" can be common among ukrainian and russian women "politeness". It can mean something, or it can mean nothing.   


Personally, I spend more than enough time with Russians to know the difference between politeness and a "woman being into me." Of course, this does not apply to all men, but if a man is paying attention, he should learn how to quickly learn to identify important non-verbal cues that will guide him.


PS - The Science of Love: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/index.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/index.shtml)
The Science of Flirting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/flirting.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/flirting.shtml)[/list]
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 17, 2011, 04:29:22 AM
Half of Toronto's population is foreign born, so foreigners are not particularly exotic there.

Thanks Boethius - I didn't know that.  However, a beautiful Russian woman should still stand out, shouldn't she?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2011, 06:22:27 AM
Thank you so much Anotherkiwi for your kindness! The point of RW being 'exotic' for Americans might be interesting, though. My post was a reaction to the Pat's observation that RW change as soon as they start their lives in the West. Pat believes that this is because the dating dynamics shifts and their desirability change.On my part, I don't understand how multiple signs of attention from men can have any influence on the ego. And I am a RW in the West, I don't quite agree with Pat on this :)  although exceptions may happen.

Lily, when i'm saying that divorced FSU women in western countries have a general increase of ego, it's in general manner. They surely not reach their western counterparts.
You, you don't have changed in yourself, this is worthly Lily, you are a worthly woman.  :flowers:
You know some people, if we speak about money and social, who can keep roughly the same EGO, like Warren Buffet or Anthony Robbins.  Some never forgot where do they come from and some quickly forget who they have been.

But you agree yourselve that you get more attention signs in the west from man. This is the potential and clear reason which explains the general trend ego boost for women living in the west.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2011, 06:28:33 AM
Thank you so much Anotherkiwi for your kindness! The point of RW being 'exotic' for Americans might be interesting, though. My post was a reaction to the Pat's observation that RW change as soon as they start their lives in the West. Pat believes that this is because the dating dynamics shifts and their desirability change.On my part, I don't understand how multiple signs of attention from men can have any influence on the ego. And I am a RW in the West, I don't quite agree with Pat on this :)  although exceptions may happen.
Lily i spoke about divorced women which means that they have already spent few times in west, so "as they start their lives in the West" is not my post.
" My post was a reaction to the Pat's observation that RW change as soon as they start their lives in the West. Pat believes that this is because the dating dynamics shifts and their desirability change.On my part, I don't understand how multiple signs of attention from men can have any influence on the ego". I confirm here my opinion that divorced FSU women show that they have shifted by wanting a significant less age gap rather than those who live in FSU. But my concern is more about western women and how high are their ego. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2011, 06:31:13 AM
Lily, I can't believe you wrote such words. :o

I think it is quite common (and quite understandable why) that people (both men and women) do start feeling differently (whether we want to refer to ego or something else) when they start getting more attention from opposite gender.

Actually, most of us start thinking differently about ourself when we get attention from even one person.
+1
If a girl is interested in you you will notice her and you will be MORE interested in her than an other one (for the same level of beauty and all parameters being equals)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2011, 06:39:36 AM
Misha, I will have to disagree with you on this one, especially if you are talking about WMVM international dating. Ask your wife the meaning of:
- быстрота нужна при ловле блох
- "Скоро только кошки родятся" (from the "12 chairs" book)

Showing within the first minute that she fell for a guy, while knowing that the guy is probably seeing 3-5 other women today might get a woman to bed with this guy, but not very likely will make her competitive with other 3-5 women and increase her chances for marrying this guy. Plus, keep in mind that not all women want to compete, some want to be "the only ones," want to see how this particular guy is serious about them, and whether they are his #1 on a list, or make sure that he does not have the lengthy list of ranked women, before they show him any sort of affection or strong interest.
What you may take for "woman being into you" can be common among ukrainian and russian women "politeness". It can mean something, or it can mean nothing.   
Mies is wise, i add a +1 here. You will see in episode 2 interesting examples around meetings which illustrate such opinions.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2011, 06:56:33 AM
  • Why should I ask my wife, I am perfectly capable of reading Russian. The fact of the matter is that attraction is decided quite quickly and most often it is unconscious and we are processing information that we do not know we are gathering and without even knowing we are doing it. The BBC has a fascinating set of articles on the science of falling in love that I would recommend:


    A quote:
    I have never timed how long it takes for a cat to give birth to kittens, but it would certainly take more than 90 seconds and perhaps even more than 4 minutes ;)


    This as described by the BBC matches my experience. Either attraction is there or it isn't and usually the falling in love stage happens quickly or it doesn't. Of course, it takes time for the falling in love phase to be replaced by a love that is more than hormonal.



    Sure, she can fake it, but generally if it is real, the man should hopefully be able to figure it out.



    Personally, I spend more than enough time with Russians to know the difference between politeness and a "woman being into me." Of course, this does not apply to all men, but if a man is paying attention, he should learn how to quickly learn to identify important non-verbal cues that will guide him.


    PS - The Science of Love:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/index.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/index.shtml)
The Science of Flirting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/flirting.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/flirting.shtml)[/q]

Misha interesting post.
The time to fancy someone is more about what you are describing :
  • 55% is through body language
  • 38% is the tone and speed of our voice
  • Only 7% is through what we say
But Misha i would not use the term of love. You are not enough accurate. Like guy you are passing the attraction test with a woman, and this test during the first minutes is essentialy based on your body language (and body means clothes as i never saw a guy successful naked) and your voice. Please don't speak about love it's too early.

"Sure, she can fake it, but generally if it is real, the man should hopefully be able to figure it out." Not sure. Women are master in controlling themelves and being manipulatives.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on July 17, 2011, 08:19:59 AM
Misha, I will have to disagree with you on this one, especially if you are talking about WMVM international dating. Ask your wife the meaning of:
- быстрота нужна при ловле блох
- "Скоро только кошки родятся" (from the "12 chairs" book)

Showing within the first minute that she fell for a guy, while knowing that the guy is probably seeing 3-5 other women today might get a woman to bed with this guy, but not very likely will make her competitive with other 3-5 women and increase her chances for marrying this guy. Plus, keep in mind that not all women want to compete, some want to be "the only ones," want to see how this particular guy is serious about them, and whether they are his #1 on a list, or make sure that he does not have the lengthy list of ranked women, before they show him any sort of affection or strong interest.
What you may take for "woman being into you" can be common among ukrainian and russian women "politeness". It can mean something, or it can mean nothing.   

Fully agree with mies here :)

How many times did I saw that guys just confuse signs of attraction with a woman being just polite. Men may believe, how could she write me a reply if she is not sure about her interest? Well, it is a basic politeness, that's why she bothered to jot you a line. How could she come to see me if she is not into me? Well, she is appreciative of your interest, and is naturally curious, that's why.

However, to determine whether a physical attraction is here, a few minutes would be by far not enough. An hour, may be. Trying to kiss may eventually be a kind of test. But even here, she may try to suppress her guts that tell her no. I think that the woman will be asking her instincts the same question quite intensively, during all your meeting, and will see what do they tell her! :)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 17, 2011, 09:21:20 AM
But Misha i would not use the term of love. You are not enough accurate. Like guy you are passing the attraction test with a woman, and this test during the first minutes is essentialy based on your body language (and body means clothes as i never saw a guy successful naked) and your voice. Please don't speak about love it's too early.

"Sure, she can fake it, but generally if it is real, the man should hopefully be able to figure it out." Not sure. Women are master in controlling themelves and being manipulatives.

I made the distinction between falling in love and love. The falling in love, the giddy chemical-driven sensations, generally happens relatively quickly (though I am sure there is somebody out there that will come up with an exception). Usually it will be quite instantaneous (hence the expression love at first sight) or it will develop over a period of hours or days. This is when your brain is making a host of chemicals that leads to the giddiness, euphoric feelings etc... Women experience it as do men. These sensations do fade over time and couples who fell in love hopefully will make the transition to simply loving each other and this takes more time.

Is it possible for couple to love each other over time without having fallen in love? Yes, of course. Many married couples in arranged marriages may never have fallen in love yet at the end will truly love each other.

At the end of the day, we all make our own choices. I, personally, did not want to marry a woman who was getting married in the hopes that love would eventually develop over time. I wanted somebody who did fall in love, I wanted passion and I wanted for the falling in love to be mutual. In my personal opinion and based on my own experience, believe it if you wish or not, but I do believe that it is possible if you pay attention to know if a woman has fallen in love (again not to be confused with love).   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 17, 2011, 09:32:37 AM
However, to determine whether a physical attraction is here, a few minutes would be by far not enough.

You are right, it takes more than a few minutes to identify. However, the point of the BBC article was that it happens in a few minutes. You are often smitten within minutes.

Quote
An hour, may be. Trying to kiss may eventually be a kind of test. But even here, she may try to suppress her guts that tell her no. I think that the woman will be asking her instincts the same question quite intensively, during all your meeting, and will see what do they tell her! :)

If you go to a restaurant or a café and simply observe a young couple on a romantic date, you can quite easily tell whether they both have romantic feelings for each other even if they do not kiss. Do they lean in to each other? Do they mirror each other? How much eye contact is there? What is their posture? Do they touch each other if only briefly? There is a host of clues being communicated unconsciously through body language, clues that are not necessarily that easy to fake for several hours...

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 17, 2011, 10:48:58 AM
  • Why should I ask my wife, I am perfectly capable of reading Russian. The fact of the matter is that attraction is decided quite quickly and most often it is unconscious and we are processing information that we do not know we are gathering and without even knowing we are doing it.

So you've read "the 12 chairs" book and know the context I am referring to? :)

I did not say you should ask your wife to translate for you these phrases, I suggested that she can share with you more details on the meaning of those phrases. But maybe you were born and raised in Russia, or studied Russian culture and literature for many years, so you don't need this. Then disregard.. :)

Of course attraction/need to do something/stimuli to act in a certain way are often felt within first seconds/minutes. Whether to show it is a different matter. Let's say you realize you need to use the restroom, but you aren't going to go and pee in the middle of the street. More likely you will look for the toilet.
Or suppose you meet a married woman while her husband is standing by her side. She is everything you've ever dreamed about in a woman. Are you going to show right away how you feel about her?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 17, 2011, 11:31:23 AM
Of course attraction/need to do something/stimuli to act in a certain way are often felt within first seconds/minutes. Whether to show it is a different matter. Let's say you realize you need to use the restroom, but you aren't going to go and pee in the middle of the street. More likely you will look for the toilet.
Or suppose you meet a married woman while her husband is standing by her side. She is everything you've ever dreamed about in a woman. Are you going to show right away how you feel about her?

Given two options: dating a woman that I fell in love with and who fell in love with me or dating a woman whereby at least one did not fall in love with the other, I would go for the first option and if I had only option 2 available, it would be best IMHO to keep looking.

I am not sure, though, what is precisely the point you are trying to make. I did my best to avoid dating married women and yes, I prefer bathroom when I have to go and there is one available.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2011, 11:48:21 AM
So you've read "the 12 chairs" book and know the context I am referring to? :)

I did not say you should ask your wife to translate for you these phrases, I suggested that she can share with you more details on the meaning of those phrases. But maybe you were born and raised in Russia, or studied Russian culture and literature for many years, so you don't need this. Then disregard.. :)

Of course attraction/need to do something/stimuli to act in a certain way are often felt within first seconds/minutes. Whether to show it is a different matter. Let's say you realize you need to use the restroom, but you aren't going to go and pee in the middle of the street. More likely you will look for the toilet.
Or suppose you meet a married woman while her husband is standing by her side. She is everything you've ever dreamed about in a woman. Are you going to show right away how you feel about her?
1/ If i know the man (husband) i would avoid her wife at anytime and/or will do all my best to not let any ambiguous situation happen.
2/ In almost all the time  i would avoid married women, there are a lot of women who are singles, so really, why search complicated situations ?
3/ if it's just to chase, perhaps, avoiding the fall in love/love situation (Misha parameters  :D ) as possible. ONS category in my western life in the west.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 17, 2011, 03:32:23 PM
Given two options: dating a woman that I fell in love with and who fell in love with me or dating a woman whereby at least one did not fall in love with the other, I would go for the first option and if I had only option 2 available, it would be best IMHO to keep looking.

I am not sure, though, what is precisely the point you are trying to make. I did my best to avoid dating married women and yes, I prefer bathroom when I have to go and there is one available.

My point is that in many cases when RW meets a foreigner first time (even after some period of online correspondence), the foreigner is a "black box" for her, she does not know if he is a good person or bad, if he came with intent to marry or he is a sex tourist, if he is going to see more women today or she is the only one. Because of this uncertainty, the woman can temporarily suppress the urge to kiss/touch/etc this man, just like you will make sure that your actions are appropriate (use a restroom and date single women vs. peeing on a street or hitting on married woman) and will not cause any negative outcome for her. Showing a man that she is interested in him, and starting romance quickly, only to find out 5 days later that he is a player and a sex-tourist, is definitely a negative outcome for a serious marriage-minded woman. It is not about playing "hard to get", it is about "not wasting pearls on swines" ("не мечите бисер перед свиньями").
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 17, 2011, 03:38:11 PM
1/ If i know the man (husband) i would avoid her wife at anytime and/or will do all my best to not let any ambiguous situation happen.
2/ In almost all the time  i would avoid married women, there are a lot of women who are singles, so really, why search complicated situations ?
3/ if it's just to chase, perhaps, avoiding the fall in love/love situation (Misha parameters  :D ) as possible. ONS category in my western life in the west.

Exactly my point. When you know for sure that woman is unavailable - you will not be looking for complicated situations.
For a woman who sees you first time - she does not know whether you are available for her, for the kind of relationship she is looking for. So she may wait some until before revealing her interest: in order to avoid "complicated situations", she will try to get to know you first.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 17, 2011, 03:42:30 PM
My point is that in many cases when RW meets a foreigner first time (even after some period of online correspondence), the foreigner is a "black box" for her, she does not know if he is a good person or bad, if he came with intent to marry or he is a sex tourist, if he is going to see more women today or she is the only one.


The same could be said of a Russian woman meeting a Russian man in person for the first time. She has no way or really knowing if he is really interested in a relationship or a one-night stand.


Quote
Because of this uncertainty, the woman can temporarily suppress the urge to kiss/touch/etc this man, just like you will make sure that your actions are appropriate (use a restroom and date single women vs. peeing on a street or hitting on married woman) and will not cause any negative outcome for her.


Yes, I did meet such a woman once. Dated her several times and she gave zero sign that she was interested. Decided that life is too short and moved on.


However, I am really happy that I did not have to meet women who were meeting foreigners via agencies.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 17, 2011, 08:58:57 PM

The same could be said of a Russian woman meeting a Russian man in person for the first time. She has no way or really knowing if he is really interested in a relationship or a one-night stand.

No. The same could not be said about Russian men, because Russian men are not commonly known for having a tight schedule of several "dates" in each day of their weekly visit, when they have to run from one date to another, or ask interpreter/friend/acquaintance to entertain the next date while they are finishing the previous one. While foreign men, especially those in international dating, have exactly this reputation among Russian women.

Yes, I did meet such a woman once. Dated her several times and she gave zero sign that she was interested. Decided that life is too short and moved on.

However, I am really happy that I did not have to meet women who were meeting foreigners via agencies.
Since you are married, I assume you made all good choices in the past. But I do not think that you should advise every man on this board to discard reserved women.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 17, 2011, 09:37:38 PM
No. The same could not be said about Russian men, because Russian men are not commonly known for having a tight schedule of several "dates" in each day of their weekly visit, when they have to run from one date to another, or ask interpreter/friend/acquaintance to entertain the next date while they are finishing the previous one.


Well, the juggling of dates with different women will be there, but in a different form and spread over a bit more time  ;) 



Quote
Since you are married, I assume you made all good choices in the past. But I do not think that you should advise every man on this board to discard reserved women.


Again, speaking from personal experience, I did not want to be with a woman if I had any doubts and if she was so reserved that she did not allow any feelings or emotions to go through or who was not willing to take some risks for love. I did not want to be with a woman unless I knew that there was passion and that I was the man she truly wanted to be with, a man she had fallen in love with. I did not want to be the consolation prize, I did not want to be with a woman who was with me solely по расчёту. At the end of day, I am very  happy. Five years later, I do not doubt that my wife loves me dearly.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 18, 2011, 02:05:23 AM

No. The same could not be said about Russian men, because Russian men are not commonly known for having a tight schedule of several "dates" in each day of their weekly visit, when they have to run from one date to another, or ask interpreter/friend/acquaintance to entertain the next date while they are finishing the previous one. While foreign men, especially those in international dating, have exactly this reputation among Russian women.
 Since you are married, I assume you made all good choices in the past. But I do not think that you should advise every man on this board to discard reserved women.
This is interesting, in Operation White Panther 2nd edition we will see which type of problem can happen with such behavior "reserved women", when they date a foreigner with a tight schedule.
I would replaced this sentence "But I do not think that you should advise every man on this board to discard reserved women." by "how can i advice reserved women to not be discarded by visiting foreigner with tight schedule". Later in Operation White Panther 2nd edition.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 18, 2011, 07:04:36 PM

Well, the juggling of dates with different women will be there, but in a different form and spread over a bit more time  ;) 




Again, speaking from personal experience, I did not want to be with a woman if I had any doubts and if she was so reserved that she did not allow any feelings or emotions to go through or who was not {a woman} willing to take some risks for love. I did not want to be with a woman unless I knew that there was passion and that I was the man she truly wanted to be with, a man she had fallen in love with. I did not want to be the consolation prize, I did not want to be with a woman who was with me solely по расчёту. At the end of day, I am very  happy. Five years later, I do not doubt that my wife loves me dearly.

yeah...in case of RM the juggling of dates with different women will be spread over a month or a year, or maybe 2-3 years period of time. . sure.. EXACTLY the same case as juggling 5+ women in one day by WM   >:D


ok, ok.. i get it! You did not want to take a risk for love, so you were looking for woman who would take a risk :D thaaat's whyyy you needed an RW - because a russian women "коня на скаку остановит, в горящую избу войдет"  :P
Dear Diary, Misha is a chicken  :-X  a true romantic, who likes risk-loving women  8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 18, 2011, 07:11:22 PM
Let's see, I once traveled two days by train to a city that I did not know in Russia to meet a woman, and I did not take any risks?!? The one thing that I did not clarify is that showing that you are into somebody is not the same thing as sex. I wanted a woman that I fell in love with who had also fallen in live with me. I wanted it to be mutual!

However, I do not know why I have to explain this to you. Have you never fallen in love?!?

As for Western men meeting five women in one day, that was never me. I limited myself to a maximum of one date per day and I only moved on to date a new woman if things had not worked out with the previous woman I was dating. We don't all fit your stereotypes of Western men...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 19, 2011, 04:27:54 PM
Let's see, I once traveled two days by train to a city that I did not know in Russia to meet a woman, and I did not take any risks?!? The one thing that I did not clarify is that showing that you are into somebody is not the same thing as sex. I wanted a woman that I fell in love with who had also fallen in live with me. I wanted it to be mutual!

However, I do not know why I have to explain this to you. Have you never fallen in love?!?

As for Western men meeting five women in one day, that was never me. I limited myself to a maximum of one date per day and I only moved on to date a new woman if things had not worked out with the previous woman I was dating. We don't all fit your stereotypes of Western men...

You are romantic :) I guessed that one right.  ;D
and yes, i did fall in love, once, about 11 years ago. That's why i am married now ;)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 19, 2011, 09:05:51 PM
You are romantic :) I guessed that one right.  ;D
and yes, i did fall in love, once, about 11 years ago. That's why i am married now ;)


Yes, you guessed right, I do have a romantic streak  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 20, 2011, 02:01:39 AM
Mies and Misha,
Oh they are so cute ! :P :welcome:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 31, 2013, 12:09:24 PM
Today i found this on the social network of my wife, first page :

Милый, любимый, желанный, нежный, ласковый, заботливый, мужественный... Все это один человек... Любимый муж, спасибо за то, что ты у меня есть!

Which Google translates, probably badly :
Darling, darling, welcome, gentle, affectionate, caring, courageous ... All that one person ... Beloved husband, thank you for the fact that I have you!



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 31, 2013, 01:07:47 PM
Today i found this on the social network of my wife, first page :

Милый, любимый, желанный, нежный, ласковый, заботливый, мужественный... Все это один человек... Любимый муж, спасибо за то, что ты у меня есть!

Which Google translates, probably badly :
Darling, darling, welcome, gentle, affectionate, caring, courageous ... All that one person ... Beloved husband, thank you for the fact that I have you!

Very nice; but, what did she write about you??   8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 31, 2013, 03:10:48 PM
Very nice; but, what did she write about you??   8) 8) 8)
ML you are a bad boy  ;D .
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on August 01, 2013, 10:21:20 AM
Today i found this on the social network of my wife, first page :

Милый, любимый, желанный, нежный, ласковый, заботливый, мужественный... Все это один человек... Любимый муж, спасибо за то, что ты у меня есть!

Which Google translates, probably badly :
Darling, darling, welcome, gentle, affectionate, caring, courageous ... All that one person ... Beloved husband, thank you for the fact that I have you!

Google did a good translation, my version:
"Darling, beloved, desired, tender/gentle, affectionate/fond, caring, high-spirited/manly... All this is one person. My beloved husband, thank you for that I have you/you are with me."

Congratulations, Patagonie!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on August 01, 2013, 11:13:43 AM
Pat, YOU STUD!!!!  :clapping:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 01, 2013, 07:38:58 PM
Pat, YOU STUD!!!!  :clapping:

 :ROFL:
 
He's DA MAN!!!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JohnDearGreen on August 01, 2013, 07:50:01 PM
[size=78%]Милый, любимый, желанный, нежный, ласковый, заботливый, мужественный... Все это один человек... Любимый муж, спасибо за то, что ты у меня есть! [/size]
Very nice thoughts, but not very original:
http://www.inpearls.ru/comments/354038 (http://www.inpearls.ru/comments/354038)
http://statusoflove.ru/l5/850-milyy-lyubimyy-zhelannyy-nezhnyy-laskovyy-zabotlivyy-muzhestvennyy-edinstvennyy-vse-eto-odin-chel.html (http://statusoflove.ru/l5/850-milyy-lyubimyy-zhelannyy-nezhnyy-laskovyy-zabotlivyy-muzhestvennyy-edinstvennyy-vse-eto-odin-chel.html)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 02, 2013, 03:02:25 AM
Very nice thoughts, but not very original:
http://www.inpearls.ru/comments/354038 (http://www.inpearls.ru/comments/354038)
http://statusoflove.ru/l5/850-milyy-lyubimyy-zhelannyy-nezhnyy-laskovyy-zabotlivyy-muzhestvennyy-edinstvennyy-vse-eto-odin-chel.html (http://statusoflove.ru/l5/850-milyy-lyubimyy-zhelannyy-nezhnyy-laskovyy-zabotlivyy-muzhestvennyy-edinstvennyy-vse-eto-odin-chel.html)
you are a monument of romantism and tact  :P .
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JohnDearGreen on August 02, 2013, 07:50:15 PM
you are a monument of romantism and tact  :P .
If you weren't married, there would be a dozen scam-happy guys here telling you she is not real, and the note was written by some fat guy named Boris at an agency somewhere.  I never placed much value on that strategy.  A quick google shows that phrase on about 2 dozen FSU ladies home pages. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on August 06, 2013, 09:01:24 PM
If you weren't married, there would be a dozen scam-happy guys here telling you she is not real, and the note was written by some fat guy named Boris at an agency somewhere.  I never placed much value on that strategy.  A quick google shows that phrase on about 2 dozen FSU ladies home pages.

You would be surprised how many home pages of both males and females around the globe have the status "I love you, babe"
Soooooo unoriginal..  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 19, 2013, 07:33:42 AM
In less than one week the family will be gathered here in France. My wife and her daughter will be soon.
An other life is going on now.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on August 20, 2013, 08:55:45 PM
An other life is going on now.

Does this mean a baby . . . if you want to tell?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 21, 2013, 01:55:49 AM
Does this mean a baby . . . if you want to tell?
Not exactly.
I wanted to tell that now real things start. I am now finishing to prepare our dwelling.

Daughter starts school soon without almost knowing the language, she never came here. So i will be with her mum to help her on a daily basis because she has good marks at school and i don't want her to stall few times after the start of the new school year.
For my wife it is different, she spent already almost four months here. But she also has to learn the language even if she has a A1/A2 level.
Everybody needs to find his place.

We have also many documents to fill in the future, in a way the immigration process is not finished.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 29, 2013, 02:01:12 AM
I don't know what about you, but for my wife and her daughter the immigration process before getting a long visa duration (one year) had been a pain in the ass.
She needed to make eight round trips from Dnepr to Kiev for visas (7) and french tests (1).
Which means between 10 and 15 hours of transportation not included intermediate time.

I was believing that the one year visa given would let us quiet for .... one year, but in fact you should register and get back the receipt BEFORE three months. If not you are not considered as legal and can have some problems. Price is more than 500 $ (fortunately just for my wife) to get register. There is probably also a medical visit. Additionnaly a tuition in french would probably proposed.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Daveman on August 29, 2013, 07:14:29 AM
A little late to the party here.. warmest wishes for beginning your lives together!  And may the future for your family hold many blessings...


...and may the French Immigration Dept. suffer!!!  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on August 29, 2013, 09:32:38 AM

...and may the French Immigration Dept. suffer!!!  :P

And no Frech kisses for them!
 
Seriously, I hope it all goes well Patagonie. This process you described seems totally unreasonable.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 29, 2013, 10:00:18 AM
A little late to the party here.. warmest wishes for beginning your lives together!  And may the future for your family hold many blessings...


...and may the French Immigration Dept. suffer!!!  :P
Thank you very much Dave.
We know all that the real common life is the biggest step 2. And especially when a child is involved.
The plus is that my wife spent before almost four months in France.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 29, 2013, 10:02:55 AM

And no Frech kisses for them!
 
Seriously, I hope it all goes well Patagonie. This process you described seems totally unreasonable.
Hi Natural.
The process is a LOT of documents, you cannot imagine how many documents we fill here, and it is not finished. Where are the kingdom of documents.  :wallbash:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 31, 2013, 06:15:53 PM
We were tonight invited in a party. We were around 80 people.
The guy who invited us quickly introduced us to two others "cross-cultural" couples.
Two polish girls, one between 40-42 and the other of 47. We spend the diner with the 48 years old and her boyfriend of 62.
This guy had been previously married to an other polish girl an also spent three years with a russian teacher living in France. So his questions and his talk was friendly open around my couple and cross cultural relationship. For him it was clear that french women, generally speaking, cannot outperfom the eastern ones.
At the end, my wife was sleeping with her daughter in the saloon so i was alone with the 48-62 couple when the second polish girl came.
At her age she is still a 8+ and ten years ago she was probably boxing in the 9 category.
In twenty minutes i rely on my intuition and can understand this. She is a simple woman, had been a manual worker and still make a living in such work (she helps her husband a butcher, to prepare meat). She is natural, she came by curiosity at my table, i could feel it in her eyes but just a respectful curiosity. She met her husband when he came in Poland (official reason : he was chasing here). She was classical in her clothes but you cannot miss that she is a beautiful woman. She is simple, easy  to discuss with. She is a hard worker, who never complains, and when you listen her telling you that she is going soon to hospital for one month you cannot  believe it. She is so smiling and so positive that you feel that this woman really tweedles this type of problem, not because she is a fool but because she is jovial. She is not educated, and probably not smart. She is feminine and you can guess she works like a butcher, and on an other hand, she is very natural and simple, she has no complex to tell you this type of things. Because she has any ego about this, she drinks her life like it comes.
Just before leaving, in the last seconds the 62 years old guy told me, speaking about this woman : look she is beautiful, she has nice legs and beasts, she is simple and natural, and don't lie about what she is. If she were french, with such beauty,  it would be not possible to approach her less than 10 meters.

Yes our western women, are generally, ego over ballooned. It kills, not the initial attraction, but  all when the man approaches them. 

The guy of 62 was quite interesting, he has approched the eastern culture a lot and got a lot of experience. He was chasing specifically on  free sites when he hitted the 48 polish culture who was already living in France.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 12, 2013, 01:31:04 AM
Daughter here is doing nice integration at school.
Fortunately two classmates speak russian.

We have gone almost the firs ten days to the swimming pool.
At 9 she has a frank success, everybody  want to play with her.
And little boys in the swimming pool try to do a maximum of noise or try to come closer to get attention from her.
Very funny.

Perhaps their perception of their price on the market starts really earlier than i think ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 16, 2013, 02:53:46 AM
We have a lot of fun in my family.
And daughter starts to like me. This is very important. It would be really a pain in my heart if not.

We play the touch my ass and and i will run after you till i touch your so you have to run on me.
So we make a lot of sport in fact  :ROFL:
Perhaps daughter will be a sprinter soon.  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on September 16, 2013, 09:47:38 PM
We have a lot of fun in my family.
And daughter starts to like me. This is very important. It would be really a pain in my heart if not.

We play the touch my ass and and i will run after you till i touch your so you have to run on me.
So we make a lot of sport in fact  :ROFL:
Perhaps daughter will be a sprinter soon.  ;D

This would get you arrested in USA.

I would even advise be careful in any country.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Wayne on September 17, 2013, 10:48:32 AM
What about football players slapping each other on the ass?
 
When I was a kid, we played various "tag" games. I remember something like "poison tag"
 
We also played a tag game when you hit the other player with a ball. If you connected, that person was "it".
 
Then there are various forms of "flag" football.
 
It seems like kids these days don't play outside much anymore.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 17, 2013, 02:08:33 PM
This would get you arrested in USA.

I would even advise be careful in any country.
for an european your post is very surprising.
None of us will never think about this.
It is very interesting to see, even if you joke, how things are perveted in guilt.
How everthing a US man  do  can be interpreted and  rotten.

Really there is a  big difference of culture,  you need to hide yourself in USA because you have a pair of balls.
A guy here in the forum was telling us how he finished almost fired in the HR office after he told a compliement to is chief about her regime.

I really don't want to live in such world.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on September 18, 2013, 03:45:18 PM
Pat, on the idea of 'no touching asses of children' . . . this idea will be coming soon to your country.

Don't believe it ?

Did you believe 'no smoking' laws would be enacted in your country ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 19, 2013, 01:55:13 AM
Pat, on the idea of 'no touching asses of children' . . . this idea will be coming soon to your country.

Don't believe it ?

Did you believe 'no smoking' laws would be enacted in your country ?
Hi ML.

I know or i guess unfortunately that we are on the US route.
Non smoking areas had been enacted for helth obvious reasons.
But i think that this sexual repression is only screwing up relationships between genders and make people unhappy, putting a huge dome of guilt on men's shoulders.

The old inquisition court is resurgent, you will be not sent to the flames but to the court, all your reputation will be destroyed, your money and a part of your freedom.
Rape and incedent assault on childre here are between 50% and 70% of time a liar. But women are very rarely prosecuted and they never go to jail.

How is it possible to cut his ball early in the morning before opening the door of your office, and pick it up back at the end of the afertoon ?
US fellows, how do feel ? How do you manage this type of life ?


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on September 19, 2013, 11:02:59 AM
for an european your post is very surprising.
None of us will never think about this.
It is very interesting to see, even if you joke, how things are perveted in guilt.
How everthing a US man  do  can be interpreted and  rotten.

Really there is a  big difference of culture,  you need to hide yourself in USA because you have a pair of balls.
A guy here in the forum was telling us how he finished almost fired in the HR office after he told a compliement to is chief about her regime.

I really don't want to live in such world.

Actually Pat, the puritans are still in charge of this country.

More puritanism, then more sexual repression, then more sexual perverts.

It is very simple.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 19, 2013, 01:20:17 PM
Actually Pat, the puritans are still in charge of this country.

More puritanism, then more sexual repression, then more sexual perverts.

It is very simple.
nice post Muzh
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on September 20, 2013, 12:45:14 PM


 
We have a lot of fun in my family.
And daughter starts to like me. This is very important. It would be really a pain in my heart if not.

We play the touch my ass and and i will run after you till i touch your so you have to run on me.
So we make a lot of sport in fact  (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/3D_ROFL.gif)
Perhaps daughter will be a sprinter soon.  (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/grin.gif)
 

This would get you arrested in USA.

I would even advise be careful in any country.

Unfortunately I don't even think ML is being anything but serious about this.
Seems to me the politically correctedness way of life where one cannot distinguish between different types of behaviours have made it's way down to Joe Average in a big way, and as always, USA shows the way forward. I didn't get what Patagonie said as anything but innocent play, but unfortunately there are sick people out there with power that does. It's about time sane and normal people everywhere say stop to this insanity and not give in to this and stop interacting with our children in a normal and healthy manner.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on September 20, 2013, 01:55:59 PM
There are many babysitters in USA who tell the parents that they will not change the diapers of children in their care . . . because of the possible charges of molestation.

- - - - -

And there is an entire industry of psyco/socio workers who are trained to recover the lost memory that persons have of childhood sexual abuse.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 23, 2013, 04:00:58 AM
Hi Natural
Hi ML

I think that USA and nordic countries are a way forward about what i personaly call the sexual repression correlated with the right to prosecuting for almost any reason.

I really can understand the concern for parents having a yound children and his personal security when you know how many freaks you have in the surroudings.
These freaks have childrens also.

But in the intimate sphere you cannot push too much the suspicion. It destroys all.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on September 23, 2013, 10:14:47 AM
Just the accusation of molestation even if untrue or innocent, can turn a man's life upside down. I've seen it happen, not to me thankfully. But it makes you wonder how many innocent people are being convicted. The accusations can be flung from from any direction and when that happens, it's guilty until proven innocent. By that time, a person has likely lost all measure of support, job, family or friends and left with a stigma that remains. One would be much better served to avoid any contact that could be construed as predatory, even the most innocent.

The children have to be protected from predators. No if, an's or buts. The area is wide and gray about what is innocent playful touching and what is not. The recovery of repressed memory (sic) is generally a crock of BS and has led to a lot of hysteria in this area. FWIW
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on September 23, 2013, 11:59:06 AM
Actually Pat, the puritans are still in charge of this country.

More puritanism, then more sexual repression, then more sexual perverts.

It is very simple.

Puritans, really?  You believe that?  :wallbash:  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 23, 2013, 03:45:15 PM
Just the accusation of molestation even if untrue or innocent, can turn a man's life upside down. I've seen it happen, not to me thankfully. But it makes you wonder how many innocent people are being convicted. The accusations can be flung from from any direction and when that happens, it's guilty until proven innocent. By that time, a person has likely lost all measure of support, job, family or friends and left with a stigma that remains. One would be much better served to avoid any contact that could be construed as predatory, even the most innocent.

The children have to be protected from predators. No if, an's or buts. The area is wide and gray about what is innocent playful touching and what is not. The recovery of repressed memory (sic) is generally a crock of BS and has led to a lot of hysteria in this area. FWIW
You are perfectly right
between 50 and 70% of accusations are without fundement.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 01, 2013, 01:58:15 AM
Things are now easier after five weeks.
Daughter is making progress when reading the language, and she starts to understand some basic french.
My wife is now owning the home. Some would say that i have "slaved" her in domestic work, but the truth is that she don't work so her daily rythmin has to find some things to do. So she comes along with daughter to school four days per week and she cooks. She also starts to do more cleaning.
As men i do little job and all repair for the home and the family, and i work and take care of business.

Everyone made his quarrel or sulked, this week it was daughter. I am aware of this. Any guys should be aware that he will have to manage this type of behavior (and you will let sweat some irritation).
I met an ukrainian girl of 35 married to a a fellow countryman and she told me that she was hysteric the first year.

The fact is also that often guys are older and use to live alone. Generally ukranian ladies used to live in communauty (with mother, children), so the "gap", added to all cultural differences is more difficult to fulfill.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 04, 2013, 04:10:44 PM
We went not long time ago to a multilanguage meeting.

A georgian guy, fluent in russian, was there.
I let my wife talked to him and went out in the street few moment. And when i returned, there was a young guy sitted in front of her.
After three seconds i understood that something was wrong with him.
He started to very smile at me. And when in the same time i touched and hughed my wife i saw his face turning sad.
Few seconds after he stood up and left.
He was gay.
Georgian guy noticed also and told to my wife.

It is funny because France authorizes now the marriage between gay.
My wife explained me that this is the first time she saw one.
Perhaps we should have shot some photos to have some memory ?  :D

In Ukraine they hide themselves, and my wife joining the mouvement to the speaking showed me what
happens to them in her country : the best i have found to help you to understand is this one :  :deadhorse:

Just to help you to understand some cultural difference.


I told to my wife that is an offence here to tell some words not in the proper manner.

Is it the oppression, or is there really less gays in Ukraine (and lesbians) ?

What do you think ?
Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 06, 2013, 12:59:11 PM
My wife, since we know each other, is regulary hitted by men here in France, sometimes she told me about.

Today she was on her social site and i was not so far, she got a message, even two today, and i was very close when he posted the second. She told me look this guy, he tries to talk to me since the beginning of the year.
She showed me and translated  messages for me. The guy was obsiouly in my city and be able to speak russian.

What was not understable is why he has sent messages. Photos on site shows clearly thtat she is freshly married, changed of name, and before it was understable that she was having a boyfriend : me.

I told to my wife : lets have some fun.

I sat in front of the keyboard and typed : "call me on XX XX XX XX XX,  :-* "
I just finished to press enter that my phone was ringing.
It was him.
I introduced myself as the husband of "first name of my wife".
The guy looked like stupid.
I told him that it is better to chase singles rather than married ones.
I didn't speak too long, this guy was non only stupid because of the situation but you can feel that he was having nothing in his game.


 I am always, more i know about how men act in real life with women (and remember that i was like many of them only six years ago), astonished by their behavior.

Two hours after i tought about him and realized the five points he needs to know (among many), just question of common sense :

1/ There are many single women, if you are want to chase focus on them, you will have better results and really less problems.
2/ When you choice a pseudo avoid all this type of "machoNAME OF MY CITY), with aw it is ok to crash, hoping that you don't just want to fuck the whores of the city.
3/ When you send a sms (maximum two) or a message to a lady, if she don't answer, the most appropriate action to do is : NEXT
4/ When you are just typing a sunday at two in the afternoon on your computer stupids messages, it just means that you are a loser, because a guy who has a real life is busy till the end of the week end (try to call them after 19h but never during the week end).
5/ If a girl give you her phone saying call me, do it in the second can  show that you are just needy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on October 06, 2013, 11:13:23 PM
Patagonie, your last post is very funny!

You engaged in "mate guarding" which shows respect to your wife, and that you are not afraid of competition.  So you demonstrated high value also.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 07, 2013, 01:44:11 AM
What trapped definitively the guy was the emoticon (a kiss) following the call me to "my number".  :P

Reaction of my wife : just one an other funny thing that her husband succeeded. And some fun to tell to her relatives.
And of course, you are right, better value.
The funniest was how fast this guy call me : maximum three seconds after the end of my messgage.  :ROFL:

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on October 07, 2013, 02:21:28 AM
What trapped definitively the guy was the emoticon (a kiss) following the call me to "my number".  :P

Reaction of my wife : just one an other funny thing that her husband succeeded. And some fun to tell to her relatives.
And of course, you are right, better value.
The funniest was how fast this guy call me : maximum three seconds after the end of my messgage.  :ROFL:

I did not chase married women, but, I recognize some of this behavior in my past.  :cluebat:

NO MORE!  :clapping:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on October 07, 2013, 10:14:31 AM
My wife, since we know each other, is regulary hitted by men here in France, sometimes she told me about.

Perhaps now you can understand why so many WW are, as so many men here state, "bitches".  Continuous pick up attempts become tiresome.  That doesn't happen in Ukraine. 

In any event, it is nice to read things are going well for you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on October 07, 2013, 11:25:07 AM
Perhaps now you can understand why so many WW are, as so many men here state, "bitches".  Continuous pick up attempts become tiresome.  That doesn't happen in Ukraine. 


Your view is, that WW are hit on much more than FSUW? 

I would certainly welcome the views of an actual FSUW who grew up in the FSU as to that viewpoint.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on October 07, 2013, 11:30:15 AM
Hit on much more in the West than FSUW in the FSU.  Definitely.  I posted before that WW (at least in North America, I can't speak for Europe) cannot dress the way FSUW do in the FSU, because they would be harassed continuously.   The attitude toward women is different in the FSU, particularly if a woman is married.


There are other differences, though.  Groping on public transport is pretty common in cities, at least in Ukraine.  However, grope the wrong woman, and a man could very well end up being beaten when he exits the bus/metro.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 12, 2013, 08:56:09 AM
Very nice topic.
But are you sure that FSU ladies are less hitted than AW ?
The link is about a nice 8 getting hitted in FSU, in hidden camera.

Here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoFCCQnp9hc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoFCCQnp9hc)


Those girls don't seem to share your opinion Boethius. However .... next time i will tell you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on October 13, 2013, 02:31:21 PM
Your "lady" went to the Kursk Vokzal, which has always been known as a place to find prostitutes, and to the park, also, when alone, a place to find a short term partner, and then complains about men approaching her.  What was not noted in the translation was while in the park, when she said she had a boyfriend, the man who approached her asked "So what are you doing here?"

Ask any normal FSUW if she would go to Kursk Vokzal, or the Kyiv Bus station, to eat lunch.

It is akin to going to a dance club, and being offended when you are asked to dance.  Had she been walking on Arbat and faced the same, I would agree with you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on October 14, 2013, 07:17:07 PM

I told him that it is better to chase singles rather than married ones.


 
Some men prefer married women. They don't want commitment in a relationship, just a woman part time for a fling and excitement. Married women can give that to those guys better than single women since they are less likely to seek commitment and their feelings are less likely to be hurt.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 31, 2013, 10:15:52 AM
Hit on much more in the West than FSUW in the FSU.  Definitely.  I posted before that WW (at least in North America, I can't speak for Europe) cannot dress the way FSUW do in the FSU, because they would be harassed continuously.   The attitude toward women is different in the FSU, particularly if a woman is married.


There are other differences, though.  Groping on public transport is pretty common in cities, at least in Ukraine.  However, grope the wrong woman, and a man could very well end up being beaten when he exits the bus/metro.

Last time i was saying, despite the video link i posted, that i would tell you more....

In fact I personnaly think that Boethius is correct about her analysis, and this it also true in Europe also.
My wife agrees about this also.
However, in gaming approach, i see no really difference between western men and eastern men (WHEN they approach), generally it is a direct hitting endeavor totally under women radar.

What is interesting here, would be to welcome more women opinion who have lived both in the west and in the east, even if i know that they are not a lot.

It is true that my wife is noticing that she is frequently tooted by cars when she walks, especially alone. Some guys even stop.
Yesterday she was waiting me in front of our compounds, on the sidewalk, me coming to pickup her by car.
She was wearing a jeans, a black leather jacket and high black leather boots. During few minutes cars honked and some even stopped  :P .

I personaly begin to think that the sexual repression in our western societies is in progress. This is my explanation, in the east genders are not frustated (really less) to live their sexuality and love affairs.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 31, 2013, 06:35:59 PM
Yesterday she was waiting me in front of our compounds, on the sidewalk, me coming to pickup her by car. She was wearing a jeans, a black leather jacket and high black leather boots. During few minutes cars honked and some even stopped  :P .I personaly begin to think that the sexual repression in our western societies is in progress.
Pat, maybe that's not due to sexual repression but to the fact that a sidewalk stander/sidewalker in that type of attire is usually perceived - in France and elsewhere - to be engaged in the world's oldest profession ;D.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 02, 2013, 06:16:36 AM
It is where it becomes interesting Sandro, why do you think that she can be "oldest job in the world ?".
Why all this guys in France can think such a thing, knowing that where i live it is not the place where they work at all ?

And so why in the same conditions Ukrainians men will not notice her ?

Precision given by my wife : ukrainians guys would be likely to honk her if she would have  been in mini skirt or in short, which was not. And she also don't wear  a lot of make up.

SO  :popcorn:

Is the beauty so rare in France ?
Is the feminity so rare in France ?

will tell you more about our last experience of yesterday.

But post here more about what you think about human psychology when people  are confronted to  somebody  who breaks the ordinary couple's codes.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 02, 2013, 09:11:01 AM
Pat, the western woman is aware of the reaction she will get from men according to her dress, mannerisms etc.

So a WW who was dressed and had the mannerisms of your wife (and, of course, I am only guessing at the total package here) would be careful as to where she stood, which direction she was looking, etc. 

Her actions would all be designed to not draw unwanted attention to herself until she were safe in the car with the man whom she did want to appreciate her looks.

Because many women in FSU do dress provocatively, and actually look like hookers, the FSU men grow immune to their looks.

I have noted before that this accounts for the widely held, but erroneous idea, that FSU women are much more attractive than WW.  i.e. Prostitutes have known for thousands of years how to dress to draw the attention of men.  The WM who go to FSU are attracted to the non-prostitute women simply because they look like prostitutes.

In Ukraine, Ochka could dress provocatively and travel the buses, metro and walk to a destination without so much as a glance from the men.  She knows that would not be the case here in USA, so she will only 'dress to kill for' when she feels safe with me by her side.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 13, 2014, 10:05:51 AM
I cannot wait to show you this relooking :
The father and the son. Really what do you think about the father after ?
Would you like to go in FSU like he was in the left picture ? Really ?
It makes a LOT of difference for a woman between the two.


(http://www.spikeseduction.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/relooking-homme-spikeseduction-matthieuchristian-avant-apres.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 21, 2014, 09:02:40 AM
The best post of the month :

VWRW :
It has been awhile as a few individuals like that have been very active on RWD, defiling every place of this site. That is the main reason why I almost do not read this forum anymore. 50% of new posts are rubbish thrown by those individuals, 40% are a rebuke of the rubbish by those patient people who still believe that the jerks can be healed. And the rest 10% of helpful information is lost in this rubbish as a needle in a big pile of ....
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 31, 2014, 01:59:24 AM
Pat, the western woman is aware of the reaction she will get from men according to her dress, mannerisms etc.

So a WW who was dressed and had the mannerisms of your wife (and, of course, I am only guessing at the total package here) would be careful as to where she stood, which direction she was looking, etc. 

Her actions would all be designed to not draw unwanted attention to herself until she were safe in the car with the man whom she did want to appreciate her looks.

Because many women in FSU do dress provocatively, and actually look like hookers, the FSU men grow immune to their looks.

I have noted before that this accounts for the widely held, but erroneous idea, that FSU women are much more attractive than WW.  i.e. Prostitutes have known for thousands of years how to dress to draw the attention of men.  The WM who go to FSU are attracted to the non-prostitute women simply because they look like prostitutes.

In Ukraine, Ochka could dress provocatively and travel the buses, metro and walk to a destination without so much as a glance from the men.  She knows that would not be the case here in USA, so she will only 'dress to kill for' when she feels safe with me by her side.

i largely agree.
"Because many women in FSU do dress provocatively, and actually look like hookers, the FSU men grow immune to their looks."
But when you say ML provocatively i think that you go too far. It is true that some do it.
But i see my wife and her daughter preparing themselves : it is all an education inherited from woman to woman.

FSU women are dressed provocatively, from a western eye, yes.
But in their mind they are just dressed normally, i mean in a feminine way.

It is very likely now that your girl has adjusted her level "of feminity" in accordance to the country where you live because she is now here for a while. She has lowered it but i don't think that this word came in her mind : provocative (it doesn't that they don't know how to do it if they really want  :P )
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on January 31, 2014, 07:01:28 AM
Yeah, and beside that, Pat,

Living in your country, well?  Who ever said that the French could dress provocatively?

(http://blog.catherinemalandrino.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/mal_p_fw11_060.jpg)

(http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2008/03/11/1111120/034336-sexiest-french-women.jpg)

(http://www.talkinfrench.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/sultry-Eva-Green.jpg)

Not me!  Nope!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on January 31, 2014, 07:04:43 AM
My wife, since we know each other, is regulary hitted by men here in France, sometimes she told me about.

Today she was on her social site and i was not so far, she got a message, even two today, and i was very close when he posted the second. She told me look this guy, he tries to talk to me since the beginning of the year.
She showed me and translated  messages for me. The guy was obsiouly in my city and be able to speak russian.

What was not understable is why he has sent messages. Photos on site shows clearly thtat she is freshly married, changed of name, and before it was understable that she was having a boyfriend : me.

I told to my wife : lets have some fun.

I sat in front of the keyboard and typed : "call me on XX XX XX XX XX,  :-* "
I just finished to press enter that my phone was ringing.
It was him.
I introduced myself as the husband of "first name of my wife".
The guy looked like stupid.
I told him that it is better to chase singles rather than married ones.
I didn't speak too long, this guy was non only stupid because of the situation but you can feel that he was having nothing in his game.


 I am always, more i know about how men act in real life with women (and remember that i was like many of them only six years ago), astonished by their behavior.

Two hours after i tought about him and realized the five points he needs to know (among many), just question of common sense :

1/ There are many single women, if you are want to chase focus on them, you will have better results and really less problems.
2/ When you choice a pseudo avoid all this type of "machoNAME OF MY CITY), with aw it is ok to crash, hoping that you don't just want to fuck the whores of the city.
3/ When you send a sms (maximum two) or a message to a lady, if she don't answer, the most appropriate action to do is : NEXT
4/ When you are just typing a sunday at two in the afternoon on your computer stupids messages, it just means that you are a loser, because a guy who has a real life is busy till the end of the week end (try to call them after 19h but never during the week end).
5/ If a girl give you her phone saying call me, do it in the second can  show that you are just needy.

Aw, Pat,

You should have put on a wig, dressed up in heels and met the schmuck!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 31, 2014, 10:27:51 AM
Your post reminds me ... not too far ... the day before the day before.

My wife told me that she got ... an other post.
She told me look...
I sat and told her ok, we will play a little.

The guy was probably from armenia and don't write a good french.

Aside saying you are very beautiful he could'nt write anything (not because he didn't have enough vocabulary but because his IQ was just enough to know how to get some tepid water). After few posts i let him know "have you realized that you are just chatting with the husband ?"

To tell you the level of the asshole he started to provocate me  and after few exchanges i stopped and told to my wife to banner him from her site.

She was with me all time and cannot believe it.

His photo ? with a BMW  :rolleyes:


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 31, 2014, 10:31:16 AM
Jone

There is a fantasm between Paris fashion capital, muse of the luxury industries and the ... daily life.

The woman with the hat ? I never never meet such woman.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on January 31, 2014, 10:52:50 AM
Jone

There is a fantasm between Paris fashion capital, muse of the luxury industries and the ... daily life.

The woman with the hat ? I never never meet such woman.

Yeah, I understand.  I just put those pictures up so Muzh could see real style.  His tastes run to Katy Perry.

(http://wallalay.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Katy-Perry-14.jpg)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 03, 2014, 03:23:07 AM
I hope that when she wokes up she has always a banana on her bedside table,
because one day she can confuse with the guy besides .... 
 :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 04, 2014, 02:37:22 AM
I am married now for more than 8 months and my wife lives now permanently since more than five months here.

I have noticed that things were harsh between month 2 and month 4. Many people around me told me that the first year is especially difficult. And that is true.
Now my wife is busy since one month with immigration french school. She has around 20 hours per week of courses with people coming from differents countries.
She already attended courses but she was not comfortable  with the teacher.
Fortunately the story is quite different now. She loves to go to school and she is seated beside a russian woman who has a lot of humor. So globally my wife and her are the ones who are livening up the classroom.

I worried about the last months because during four months she barely didn't invest time learning french.
I think that is a big concern, not only about an integration in a new society, but also for the family, the couple, if a FSU woman don't master the language. And it puts a lot of problem in the daily life also, because you spend your time as assistant any time, anywhere.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 21, 2014, 03:38:01 AM
We have gone recently to a mariage in Paris.
My wife prepared this appointment at her own way.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JayH on August 21, 2014, 03:58:14 AM
Pat-- we are always interested in updates!! :)

Do you mean your own marriage is in preparation? Or someone elses? What are you saying here?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 21, 2014, 04:25:34 AM
We have gone recently to a mariage in Paris.
My wife prepared this appointment at her own way.

That is so cute!  :clapping:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 21, 2014, 04:27:40 AM
Pat-- we are always interested in updates!! :)

Do you mean your own marriage is in preparation? Or someone elses? What are you saying here?

C'mon, Jay, get with the programme!  :cluebat:

I am married now for more than 8 months and my wife lives now permanently since more than five months here.

He's now past his first anniversary!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 21, 2014, 06:14:20 AM
No, it was not our marriage.
Cause our happened more than one year ago now.
But they are (with her daughter) there for more than one year.

The difference in culture sucks, it adds some difficulties to any normal bumps met in a couple life.

There are some photos of us in rua in the 51 area (you need to have few hundreds posts on your own to access).
On request i can send some by pm (there are some people i really like here).

I can confirm to newbies that this journey is not for poor people, not at all.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JayH on August 21, 2014, 06:35:45 AM
C'mon, Jay, get with the programme!  :cluebat:

He's now past his first anniversary!


AK--  I thought that and could not get what he was saying !

My scorecard was being manually operated!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2014, 02:30:52 AM
I am realizing now how far i am after all these years.
All is fine, the relationship is quieter due to a better adaptation for my wife in France. Also we know each other better in the daily couple life so we less need to confront our personnalities.
The learning process for her daughter was a concern for me the first year. But the fact is that now she has really improved her skills in french and henceforth i feel confident for her tuition.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2014, 02:40:34 AM
I realize that this forum has gone far from his purpose, after many months of incertainty due to the conflict. I mean that often politics were put on the table rather than human relationships.

It is a real pain for me to this beautiful country divided and devastated. More there will be some close regions which are now out of trip, even if it will be only for a touristic purpose. Especially Crimea, which i had always the wish to visit. And now it has gone.

I am so sorry for all ukrainians. And no solution is incoming due to the presence of this agressive russian president. The only satisfaction i have is to see  how much it will cost him, especially with a so low barrel price.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2014, 03:09:19 AM
Newbies :
If i compare where i were seven years ago and today, the ditch is so large that it would have been impossible for me to figure out (and neither my relatives).

You have heard me speaking of game, you have heard me speaking of self improvement, you have heard me speaking about red pill opposite to the blue pill, it is all of these things and a formidable appetite of discovering, meeting people, flirting with beauty and beauties who had allowed my life to be what it is now.

NO CHANCE, NO LUCK there. A lot of work.

Some have some chance and shorten the time to find their mate, and some have no real chance but shorten it by giving more time to the venture.
I am however more confident with the seconds on the long term of their relathionship (in average) rather than with the ones who (the one week wonder) have had the "luck" to seal the deal in few days or few weeks of searching.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 06, 2014, 09:43:33 AM
Pat, you are becoming quite the Philosopher !

Good to hear your relationship is progressing nicely.

Best to you and spouse.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Wayne on November 06, 2014, 10:58:28 AM
Pat, you and your wife can still go to Crimea, you just need a Russian visa and to fly from Moscow. I was there for 30 days this summer. We went to a lot of places and did not have any trouble.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BorisS on November 06, 2014, 11:18:00 AM
Great thread...Congrats!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 06, 2014, 11:52:59 AM
Pat, you and your wife can still go to Crimea, you just need a Russian visa and to fly from Moscow. I was there for 30 days this summer. We went to a lot of places and did not have any trouble.

You  must differentiate between CAN go and WANT to go.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2014, 02:25:09 PM
Pat, you are becoming quite the Philosopher !

Good to hear your relationship is progressing nicely.

Best to you and spouse.
I am happy  that you have returned from the east safe and with good records of your time spent there. Nice to read you ML. Would like to meet you if we travel in the future in USA.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2014, 02:28:51 PM
Pat, you and your wife can still go to Crimea, you just need a Russian visa and to fly from Moscow. I was there for 30 days this summer. We went to a lot of places and did not have any trouble.
You are both right, it can be done but it is so disgusting to go through Moscow and get a visa to simply go in a region which was belonging few months ago to Ukraine. It is so unbelievable. It is like a fence in my mind fellows.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2014, 02:30:55 PM
Great thread...Congrats!
Thank you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2014, 02:02:57 PM
The red pill and blue pill refer to the "Matrix" movie when the hero can choose between both. One, the blue one, will leave him in a peaceful and warm environment and the other one will send him in a the real world, without any tainted glass.

The red pill therefore is a communauty of people who have started to notice that the usual speech in our western societies about the disbalance in egality is not automatically in disfavor of women. 

The whole effect of beliefs, families expectations, rest of religion, chivalry in the education push men in the "matrix" and format them to endorse an outfit and a way to be, to think and to act which is predominantly or totally against his own interest(s).

The red pill kicked my ass seven years ago and has rocketed me to a major improvment in my life. To a 99 % benefit.
You would have never been read anything of me here, without the red pill. I would not even been able to write in english.

If you consider life, women are at least the 1/3 of all treasures, you can even think about the half.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 09, 2014, 02:35:00 PM
I realize that this forum has gone far from his purpose, after many months of incertainty due to the conflict. I mean that often politics were put on the table rather than human relationships.

It is a real pain for me to this beautiful country divided and devastated. More there will be some close regions which are now out of trip, even if it will be only for a touristic purpose. Especially Crimea, which i had always the wish to visit. And now it has gone.

I am so sorry for all ukrainians. And no solution is incoming due to the presence of this agressive russian president. The only satisfaction i have is to see  how much it will cost him, especially with a so low barrel price.

We all hope it will cost him the Presidency and possibly his life, as the Oligarchs who have lost hundreds of millions because of his hubris are probably scheming a regime-change as we speak.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: southernX on November 09, 2014, 03:34:28 PM
pat , great thread,

congratulations on your good life, & i know it all comes with good hard work ,

teh young ones when they move  countrys take it on pretty quickly there change is amazing to see over 2-3 years ime

best to you and your family pat  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


SX
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2014, 07:28:42 AM
We all hope it will cost him the Presidency and possibly his life, as the Oligarchs who have lost hundreds of millions because of his hubris are probably scheming a regime-change as we speak.
i hope it will work, but what about the next revolution ? Nobody knows
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2014, 07:29:36 AM
pat , great thread,

congratulations on your good life, & i know it all comes with good hard work ,

teh young ones when they move  countrys take it on pretty quickly there change is amazing to see over 2-3 years ime

best to you and your family pat  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Thank you very much for your supportive post.


SX
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2014, 08:18:55 AM
But the beginning of the "revolution" started before the red pill. I cannot say if it helped the other but it played probably a role.

I was single and one evening i was with a nice looking woman (a friend) dining in a little italian restaurant. Two tables away a beautiful young tall blonde was dining with a brunette friend. Don't ask me how it happened because i have absolutely no clue but finally we exchanged our number (all both) and i met them again, especially the blonde one.
Note : the rule good looking girls attracts good other looking girls is here checked.
Note : the guy (me) was having absolutely no clue about what he did and is not capable to tell you any signs of interest

She was on the international chart a solid 8. Her sister was older but even  more beautiful, close to 9 or a 9. One day we met and the little group went to a jazz club, with a little dance floor. The two sisters and i started to dance and 10 minutes after we were litteraly compressed by a crownd of men who wanted their piece of cake. Funny experience where i was the passive lurker of the beauty of the beauties, somewhere believing that if i were trying my luck this spectacle would fade away.

One day i was with the little sister, and little carried away by being with this beautiful young women i tried to push a pawn on the chessboard. Indeed till this moment i was the nice and chivalrous guy always neat, always (try to be nice) and not showing any interest (i was interested of course). When i saw her face about my endeavor (like if i were asking her to lend me 10000$) i quickly come back to my outfit of good friend.
Note : i have never left my outfit of good friend in fact, perhaps i made illusion during the first diner, but after i blew up all my chances, if i had one which was not certain. I land in fact very quickly in the friendly zone. A zone with no intimacy and no sex, a swamp from where you are very rarely able to come back.

At this moment i started to notice, or perhaps it was only supposition of my own, that she  lived with an older guy before we met and for what i understood among the little informations i got, she was living not in poverty althought she was an average woman by her job. Something was telling me that my appartment couldn't compete with the one that the guy owned or rented. It let me an unpleasant feeling to consider this aspect of thing, which i have never paid attention before. I suddenly remembered all remarks made by my female friends in the previous decade. It was clear suddenly how the place where a man is living are or seems important for them.

After this story with the blonde (not really a story because absolutely nothing happended) i restarted the episode 2/3 with my GF. As we were abonent in our story to a 6 months together/6 months split episode 2 i also memorize that she didn't love my flat, till it was totally renovated, which happened at the end of our second episode.

I started to seriously consider that if i wanted to have one day a serious relationship i had to built a nest which can welcome at least three people and perhaps more.

The second thing to open my window was to consider to have more money, which was linked with the previous point.

Some bubbles were starting to boilt in my brain...

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2014, 08:32:43 AM
Spartacus was a slave, a lot of his fellows also, but nobody told them they were slaves .... And what was a slave.

Don't believe fellows, that i am just an arrogant prick who came here to give you a lesson, in fact i have been a a very long time in the mud.

The crownd is named beta for the blue pill people and  named AFC in the seduction communities. Don't take care about the name in itself it is just used to separate two populations.


It doesn't mean that my life was uninteresting or that i didn't have GF's, but in this area i was just like a pawn not knowing in which direction i could go. I was lost DOT
By any consideration i could have had a child by accident and start to live together, and get married... Which would have been a disaster of course. It didn't happen by chance, that was my luck. I can thank this good fortune and also women i met who never trapped me intentionnaly or by accident.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2014, 09:20:47 AM
You know what happens about beautiful women, the ones who impress you. You therefore give her the status of a very imporant and uttainable  person. It makes you feel nervous or without any expression of the best of your personnality, humour, or intelligence (often all of them  :P ). You give her (them) a world of possibilities which you compare to yours, i mean about in dating perspective. You believe that they can interact with almost any men, and you modestly and reastically judge yourself as being, probably not in the least 50% (depending of your sefl esteem an your value) but not in the top guys, because they are, of course, many top guys in the world. And you give her this proxy easily, to access to a full bunch of possibilites. You put her on a pedestral. As a man you start to desire her and to plan yourself in a virtual relationship with her, by any type of.
you are therefore afraid or any wrong doing or any wrong saying just to keep the LINK. You consider blissfully, how lucky you are to be in contact with a beautiful woman.

Man are the desire and can surf a very long time on this wave, women are in the pleasure and keep a feet in it.

Who in your opinion, is the most prone to live in the reality ?

In fact who is acting like a beta, at this stage of the relationship ?

You know what i mean, the girl who call her friend Susan and she asks : what about Peter ? What about him ? Do you like him ? And she answers something like, oh he is a smart guy, very kind , thoughful. Susan : and what ? I don't think it will work, not my type. Susan : but he is good looking, isn't it ? She : yes not so bad, but i don't have the vibe.

How can she have the vibe with a man who is afraid of himself, in whom you can see at first sight the lack of confidence, the impossibility he has to wear his two balls, which he tries to hide any time, the ceaseless efforts he does to please you anytime and anywhere, the absolute polished manners and spoken language he is expressing.

That is what is happening today to a lot of women who are meeting men, and they detect it in few seconds, in the first minutes maximum, because men  wear it through how they stand, how they move, how they push their voice (event if women don't precisely understand what they say), how they throw their hands, how they are dressed. That's it. For the most beautiful they have the choice to not stop on such type of men, and it is generally what they do, provided that the market is still in their favor.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2014, 02:50:49 AM
FInally i found a solution to my material problem. During three weeks i slept bad because what i was doing was against the flow (but nothing illegal), people are formated to do things in accordance with how people have been raised, with how bankers and advertising are advising or telling you, but there are others ways. When it was clear that it would be the solution which would give me an a bigger appartment AND more cash available every month, it was only a matter of time to realize this. So i started to plan my future life. Oh it was just a halo, nothing more, i was not having an accurate idea or a structured schedule. Just i knew what i could also do with the money.
Seven months went by and by a real hazard my road crossed my ex and guess what i restarted episode 3/3 with my ex, dropping few time after my actual GF.
In the same time i moved into a nice appartment, bought a fancy car, a sportive motorbike and renew all furniture.

Have you ever noticed that a lot of guys after a divorce, not so long after  (when they can) buy a nice car ? It probably gives them an ego boost, which needed probably some help for understandable reasons).

Relationship in episode 3/3 was following the same path of the previous ones : month after month she was confused more and more. Things was not blowing away like an explosion, but more by lack of passion, on her side. She couldn't keep the speed of a normal relationship. This time, i suffered no big pain, i saw it coming day by day, i did my best to give every day but without sacrificing myself.
I let it go peacefully.

But guess what after the break, few weeks after she wanted a fourth episode. She cried one hour on the phone. I said niet. Didn't want to waste my time again, tired to be with a psychological versatile woman. She strongly loved me, in her manner, but for her i was not the one (the one with whom you live, the type of you get married with (even if she was not interested in marriage and had never been)), something like this, could'nt be able to explain it clearly to me.

She also confessed, to tell me how i was important, that she got 50 guys during the time we were not together.
It was not to make me jealous, there were no stakes at this moment and she was not the one to play such game.
It took me several years to assess this information on a very large prospective. Independantly of how she did it, managing the custody (except every other week end) of her daughter and  she was at leat a real 7+, i have to tell you that :
We are not equal in sexuality. Tell how many guys do you know who can get 40 or 50 women in one year ? Even an ugly woman can put an ad on internet, very clear about her sexual needs and she will get, in the big cities, one guy at least per week interested. I have around me an ugly women, 45, overweighted, with health problem who really likes the dick, believe me she has no problem to find a partner.

So that is the ugly truth : women can easily satisfy their libido, it is granted for them.
Try now in internet, to put the photo of angly guy with an average profil and i can tell you that this profile can wait for years before getting a notch.

Yes we are not equal in terms of sexual possibilites and the balance is clearly in disfavor of men.

However and that is the most surprising, as i was looking the age pyramid and genders distritution in my country  i was very surprised because in fact there are more women than men (a little, not so much) after 24. The difference is more than half million between 20 and 60. http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/detail.asp?ref_id=bilan-demo®_id=0&page=donnees-detaillees/bilan-demo/pop_age2b.htm (http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/detail.asp?ref_id=bilan-demo®_id=0&page=donnees-detaillees/bilan-demo/pop_age2b.htm)
But if you go out a lot you will realize that in 95 % of places there are more men than women. And the nice girls (put here your cursor on the ones you like) are totally overnumbered. The fact that women have for the most part of the time the custody of children don't explain all.

So men have been raised in scarsity for the sexual commitment they want. The demeanor of many is that their desire, their needs in this topic outmatch from far what women can give back. They logically feel and understand that there are a few offfers and a lot of requests : that is the law of the market.
Come on guys !!!! Do you really believe that women desire and sexuality is less than her male counterpart ? Really ? Do you thing that they like sex LESS than men ? You are wrong they like it minimum as much as men, and they are more numerous than men. And they also need you to have children, and they hope you to support them in a way on an other even if they (this society, the feminist movement) spit on you every day.
All the secret is here, how to throw a scarsity which in fact is in your favor and to let you believe that you are the seeker. But you are not the seeker, they are the seekers, and their agenda is compressed, your has absolutely less dealines.

As we will see later in my posts here, i started to figure out this, but it didn't come in one piece, it took me many years.
Quite differently than the PUA coaches who ignore this fact or voluntarily lie about it i started, from this time, to rely that socio economy has a real link in dating, which is clearly etablished by a american sociologist that i will talk about latter.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jazztropy on November 12, 2014, 06:08:52 AM
Thanks, Patagonie.

This type of information is not common on this site.  I wait for your next installment.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2014, 10:02:50 AM
This is coming from the site "A voice for men". It is like a tao. However i do not know what is smv (V is surely value) and awalt, any suggestion are welcome.

The 4 Noble Truths of Red Pill.
  The 8 fold path of increasing SMV
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2014, 10:06:48 AM
i got one :
not all women are like that (NAWALT).
all women are like that (AWALT).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 13, 2014, 11:45:03 AM
We are not equal in sexuality. Tell how many guys do you know who can get 40 or 50 women in one year ? Even an ugly woman can put an ad on internet, very clear about her sexual needs and she will get, in the big cities, one guy at least per week interested. I have around me an ugly women, 45, overweighted, with health problem who really likes the dick, believe me she has no problem to find a partner.

So that is the ugly truth : women can easily satisfy their libido, it is granted for them.
Try now in internet, to put the photo of angly guy with an average profil and i can tell you that this profile can wait for years before getting a notch.

Yes we are not equal in terms of sexual possibilites and the balance is clearly in disfavor of men.

Don't tell this to the feminists, you know it does not fit their narrative.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2014, 12:46:42 PM
Don't tell this to the feminists, you know it does not fit their narrative.

The key is to absolutely not take in consideration about what western women are are telling you when it is about relationships

My favorite sentence since 6 years is :
They don't tell what they think and they don't think what they tell you (i talk here about gender relationships i insist)

My life has become really more confortable since.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 13, 2014, 01:07:40 PM
Come on guys !!!! Do you really believe that women desire and sexuality is less than her male counterpart ? Really ? Do you thing that they like sex LESS than men ? You are wrong they like it minimum as much as men, and they are more numerous than men.

Sorry Pat, I have to disagree with you here.

The average woman has a much lower sex drive than the average man.

During teenage years, the average guy jerks off 3 or more times a day.  The average gal thinks about polishing her bean maybe once a week.

If the average adult man thinks about having sex every third day, the average adult woman can go 14-20 days or so before Mother nature gives them a nudge in this direction.

Now, this does not mean than the average woman won't have sex as often as her partner desires . . . it's just that it is not uppermost in her mind, as it is with the man, if opportunities do not present themselves.

And, if to change the focus a bit:  The average woman can enjoy sex (as in achieving orgasm) by an exponential factor greater than an average man can, in any given time frame.

So, in this area, we must take care to distinguish between:

1) desire to have sex.
2) ability to enjoy sex.

God must be laughing every day about the double asymmetry he put into place.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 13, 2014, 06:30:06 PM
God must be laughing every day about the double asymmetry he put into place.

If there is a God he's a prankster, isn't he?   ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on November 13, 2014, 06:59:10 PM
SMV = "sexual market value"
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2014, 07:56:33 AM
SMV = "sexual market value"
Thank Slumbe
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2014, 08:03:49 AM
ML,

Ok let say that men  have a higher drive than women.

After all we can say that women's sastisfaction in this area requires less effort to be filled than what a  man has to do.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2014, 08:25:09 AM
So after episode 3/3 with my fickle ex GF i was ready to explore again the universe. Due to my new environment i felt nice in my skin. I was in good shape, enjoying my new appartment and some nice toys. It is funny to consider how things look better when you start to control what you are doing. I therefore  also restarted to be in fashion, a little, like i liked to do it a decade before.

Then came my neighbour, a petite blond with all the necessary padding.
I tried my chance by stopping her in the garage and giving her a paper with my phone number, a short funny text aiming for a rendez vous.
Don't tell me about game, i was having not a clue about this.
Just you dare, just this, you wear your balls by coming front to women, and you are likely to have good chance to win something.

Yes,

Why i tell you this ?

Cause in the two years she was in this building three others guys tried to hit her. The first dropped some flowers on the table of her garden. She never figured out who was this guy. And other dropped a professional car in her letter box with a mobile phone written with a pen. Again she could'nt figure out who it was. Couldn't put a face on it. She also found a poem i don't remember how. Yes nice move, but she had no fuckin idea about who wrote it.
That 's it. Of course she never called the one with the professional card.  Three shots, three misses.

So i was not in the game, but by coming upfront, writing something cute and diret, i got my chance.

Please note that in this previous years i was more the type of "write a stupid poem and get flat dick for the rest of the month". ;D

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 14, 2014, 09:35:17 AM
Pat the White Panther, sorry for this brief interruption to your interesting story, I wanted to discuss something you and ML mentioned.


The average woman has a much lower sex drive than the average man.


Two points: 

1) you use the term "average."
2) you seemingly limit sex to a mechanical perspective, which is mostly about hormones. 

 
This raises some questions.


How many women are average?

Beyond the median range one can encounter some naturally highly charged women.
 

How many women are average all the time?

A woman can change.   Unleashing a woman who has repressed her drive for a long, long time is something to marvel.  Also, introducing her to something new may enliven her appetite. 


How do you measure sex?

From a mechanical perspective, sex can be measured in terms of intensity, duration and frequency. Both sides of the physical equation need to be considered.  On the male side, men here are not young juicy boys, some of us no longer able to piss in a straight line.   While intensity is the same if not better than in our younger years, and duration has increased as well, frequency is another matter.   


What is missing in this discussion?

There is another factor, and it is most importantIMO.  What was once an average sexual appetite for a particular woman can change dramatically if she and her partner are in love.   The sexual encounter of course still has its hormone-driven physical aspects, yet it can when "in love" transcend to something higher.    Sexual fulfillment is way more than having an orgasm.


What else to consider?

Mind over matter, medication, etc.


In summary, I assert sexual compatibility, particularly fulfillment,  is more common than one would think based on intersection of the average male with the average female female.   

 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 14, 2014, 10:19:25 AM
1) you use the term "average."
2) you seemingly limit sex to a mechanical perspective, which is mostly about hormones. 

 
This raises some questions.


How many women are average?

Beyond the median range one can encounter some naturally highly charged women.
 

How many women are average all the time?

A woman can change.   Unleashing a woman who has repressed her drive for a long, long time is something to marvel.  Also, introducing her to something new may enliven her appetite. 


How do you measure sex?

From a mechanical perspective, sex can be measured in terms of intensity, duration and frequency. Both sides of the physical equation need to be considered.  On the male side, men here are not young juicy boys, some of us no longer able to piss in a straight line.   While intensity is the same if not better than in our younger years, and duration has increased as well, frequency is another matter.   


What is missing in this discussion?

There is another factor, and it is most importantIMO.  What was once an average sexual appetite for a particular woman can change dramatically if she and her partner are in love.   The sexual encounter of course still has its hormone-driven physical aspects, yet it can when "in love" transcend to something higher.    Sexual fulfillment is way more than having an orgasm.


What else to consider?

Mind over matter, medication, etc.


In summary, I assert sexual compatibility, particularly fulfillment,  is more common than one would think based on intersection of the average male with the average female female. 

Gator, sophisticated write up; but it obfuscates the truth as I had written:

The average woman has a much lower sex drive than the average man.

During teenage years, the average guy jerks off 3 or more times a day.  The average gal thinks about polishing her bean maybe once a week.

If the average adult man thinks about having sex every third day, the average adult woman can go 14-20 days or so before Mother nature gives them a nudge in this direction.

Now, this does not mean than the average woman won't have sex as often as her partner desires . . . it's just that it is not uppermost in her mind, as it is with the man, if opportunities do not present themselves.

And, if to change the focus a bit:  The average woman can enjoy sex (as in achieving orgasm) by an exponential factor greater than an average man can, in any given time frame.

So, in this area, we must take care to distinguish between:

1) desire to have sex.
2) ability to enjoy sex.

God must be laughing every day about the double asymmetry he put into place.

= = = = = = = =

However, let me add that I have been fortunate (or lucky) enough to spend considerable time with a few women who were 'off the chart' in terms of sexual appetite.  Included were 4 who started off lower than average and became much higher than average.

So I have no real complaints about sex; except when I hear the assertions that women (in general) have just as much sex drive as men (in general).  Simply not true.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on November 14, 2014, 11:18:28 AM
So after episode 3/3 with my fickle ex GF i was ready to explore again the universe. Due to my new environment i felt nice in my skin. I was in good shape, enjoying my new appartment and some nice toys. It is funny to consider how things look better when you start to control what you are doing. I therefore  also restarted to be in fashion, a little, like i liked to do it a decade before.

Then came my neighbour, a petite blond with all the necessary padding.

Please note that in this previous years i was more the type of "write a stupid poem and get flat dick for the rest of the month". ;D

Great stuff! Something every guy in this pursuit should read ...!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 14, 2014, 11:23:38 AM

...except when I hear the assertions that women (in general) have just as much sex drive as men (in general).  Simply not true.

I bet Brad Pitt never thought such in his single days.   :D :D :D :D 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2014, 04:01:24 AM
Gator,
nice and sophisticated post.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2014, 05:05:50 AM
She sent me back a SMS telling me that she was very busy but in few days (saturday) it would be possible to meet.

Note : the truth : she was absolutely not busy but a woman would be close to the suicide to tell you that she is suffering from loneliness and her social life is almost empty. Traditional BS of western women.

I met her first in her appartment (2 floors below  :P ) and we aimed a nice restaurant on the top of a hill, close to the city, with a  incredible viewpoint. I told her that we will have diner with a couple of friends, i saw her raising an eyebrown, it is not so often that a guy who see a nice looking woman for the first time want to share this moment with people. She was surprised.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2014, 10:05:11 AM
Quote
Traditional BS of western women.


No offence intended, but this sentence tells me that even after your studies, and your successful marriage, you still don't understand women. 


Of course a woman, even one who is alone, is going to tell you she is busy.  She wants you to believe she is desirable and desired.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 15, 2014, 02:04:36 PM

No offence intended, but this sentence tells me that even after your studies, and your successful marriage, you still don't understand women. 


Of course a woman, even one who is alone, is going to tell you she is busy.  She wants you to believe she is desirable and desired.

Which is basically what he said.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2014, 04:21:10 PM
No it isn't. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jazztropy on November 15, 2014, 08:57:14 PM
Nice humor.  Thanks for agreeing with what Patagonie said.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2014, 05:42:46 AM
Which is basically what he said.
+1 lol
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2014, 06:12:09 AM
Nice humor.  Thanks for agreeing with what Patagonie said.
+1
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2014, 06:14:34 AM
No it isn't.
Boethius is a smart and high educated woman. FSU women are often top notch people, but culturally you can notice that they are also stubborn  :P ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2014, 07:43:35 AM
I am not culturally Ukrainian.


You can believe a woman telling you she is unavailable is "typical WW BS", but first, it is universal, and second, it is not BS.


I think all your journey tells me is that you lacked confidence, and hence, were unsuccessful with women.  When you gained confidence, your success rate improved.  It isn't rocket science, and no pills are required.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BorisS on November 16, 2014, 10:57:11 AM
I am not culturally Ukrainian.


You can believe a woman telling you she is unavailable is "typical WW BS", but first, it is universal, and second, it is not BS.


I think all your journey tells me is that you lacked confidence, and hence, were unsuccessful with women.  When you gained confidence, your success rate improved.  It isn't rocket science, and no pills are required.


Well, maybe one...:-)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2014, 04:19:12 AM
Boethius is right about confidence, women really like confident men.

         The red pill is about restoring the value of men by letting know how much they are worthy, in a civilization which daily spit on them, and second the red pill is about to name the double standard and educate men about the dangers of the current system for them when they enter in a long term relationship, or even any intercourse.

         The game has an additionnal benefit for men within the framework of the red pill, which is to help them to get out from the day to day women BS, to start to think by himself, be protected from any manipulation, and kick the need to believe that men need some validation from them. A woman who lies to improve her value or playing with you as a toy, or whatever, this is BS. In this topic, they are unquestionably the queens. 

I remind you again my favorite sentence, built after years of experience : women are not going to tell you what they think, and they don't think about what they say, i mean in the context of gender relationship in the west.

When you start to stop to worry about what they can say or think (what they don't say or don't think also :P ) your life gets a huge improvment and you use less aspirine.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 17, 2014, 08:58:41 AM
Quote
women are not going to tell you what they think, and they don't think about what they say, i mean in the context of gender relationship in the west.


I disagree with you here, as well.  There may be different cultural approaches in different Western countries.  I think in North America, most women do tend to tell men what they think, but only after a certain level of trust exists.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2014, 10:25:42 AM
i have found communication with FSU women really better and clearer about "building a couple" "aiming a marriage" rather than western women.
You can talk barely frankly (provided that they are genuine and interested) with FSU women about what you want, don't want, qualities required (i speak for both genders).
With western women a lot are trying to hide their needs to not show that they are vulnerable, some will talk you about what they want, but if you go this way you will severly crash because in fact they want secretly the opposite. I found them really more complicated and shallow.
The result is that they are confused, and their feminity seriously suffers from this fact.
And i don't think that a certain level of trust changes anything. As proof when you are just friends with women, you get unusable answers about genders relationships from them also.They would give you the standards answers which never work and it gives you no more success with women (in the seduction area).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 17, 2014, 10:39:42 AM
Have you considered that the FSUW you were communicating with were self selected?  The FSUW you met presumably were registered at agencies and desired marriage and a family life.  The WW you met may not have been as clear in wanting marriage and a family, unless the WW you met were on websites devoted solely to finding a suitable mate for marriage.

Quote
They would give you the standards answers which never work and it gives you no more success with women (in the seduction area).

I think you make this far more complicated than it really is.

How would you define success?  Is it bedding a lot of women?  Or finding one woman who is faithful to you?

When I look at men around me who have been successful with women, I observe a variety of approaches.  A Lothario has a different approach, and attracts different women, than does a one woman man. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2014, 04:42:10 AM
Have you considered that the FSUW you were communicating with were self selected?  The FSUW you met presumably were registered at agencies and desired marriage and a family life.  The WW you met may not have been as clear in wanting marriage and a family, unless the WW you met were on websites devoted solely to finding a suitable mate for marriage.

I think you make this far more complicated than it really is.

How would you define success?  Is it bedding a lot of women?  Or finding one woman who is faithful to you?

When I look at men around me who have been successful with women, I observe a variety of approaches.  A Lothario has a different approach, and attracts different women, than does a one woman man.

Correct, FSU women i met were filtered.
As you perhaps remember a serious survey had been done on a forum letting know that the chance of non divorce was better for cross couples (living in the west at the end) provided that they took time to get acquainted (so the one week wonder would suffer from a higher rate of divorce). I consider that the pre screening and discovering time under the "marriage project" is probably one key of the success for such couples.

But at the end the fact is that it changes nothing about the reality of the western market dating. I have been an active member for a decade of a leisure club only open for singles. I saw thousands single and divorced men and women during this time (i don't exagrerate the numeral). I have been the witness of dozens of stories or more (not counting mines), and never heard  ONE pronoucing the word "marriage", or a constructive speech around "building a LTR". Barely all paid members were there because only singles could be registered (it would have not worked if it had been only a leisure club) but ALL women were telling you that they came here to meet some friends and have some entertainment. During 10 years i heard the same BS, but the fact is that they would have never given  even one $ for a family club.
It is not that they are not clear in wanting a family, it just that they hide it, because it is not promoting them quite the opposite it  lowers their value on the market dating. The double standard is to be the seeker but let  men to believe that women are in high demand and that they are the needy people, typical feminin tactic.

I was not against western women and i was dating a lot locally through my FSU journey. The fact is that the first problem i was having with WW was that they were shallow, confused, capable  of telling you "i want" but in fact  seing their actions  it was just BS. I found nice looking french women, highly educated for some. I gave them a chance but they could stand comparison with FSU women in term of feminity. Be feminine or advertise your feminity is betraying your sisters in the west, it is a crime. This new trend has let a lot of damage in the feminine psyche and it not ending unfortunately in a world  loosing all his marks. If you add that FSU women allow a bigger gap age, are IMHO in average more beautiful, and more important let you feel and respect you like a real man every day you understand why we are on the board.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2014, 05:09:23 AM
The success ?
The success today is to be attractive. It is absolutely what women practice every day, that is the heart of their power. It is why they expense so much money on cosmetic and surgery.

After, what you do with your attractiveness is your problem, depending of the long or none term oriented phasis in you are. It can help you to find a bride or to bed a lot. There are not link between faithfullness and banging. All real stories start by a bed (or a car, or a beach, wherever you do it).

About the belief that the bedding men are attracting a different type of women and so the "pure and serious" women are protected from such Lotharios is an absolutely ridiculous belief and thinking. Which absolutely doesn't match with the reality of the social dating and all the report fields of the pua communities. And if i remember the decade i spent in the club, the most attracting or seductive  guys got a lot of variety of women. I would even say that the "bitches" are perhaps  more warned about lotharios because they have a better social and sexual experience.

Attraction is not a choice, it not a painting can so you can recognize it because like  the guy is wearing  a sign on his jacket. You don't decide if you are attracted, you are DOT.

No with the pua stuff, it is true that you can have a lot of guys who are going to try weird things on you (especially the young guys) the frequency on how such guys are trying "weird things" can alert you, but it is just because they are beginners (and young) and using some internet material without owning what they do.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 18, 2014, 01:17:29 PM
Quote
As you perhaps remember a serious survey had been done on a forum letting know that the chance of non divorce was better for cross couples (living in the west at the end) provided that they took time to get acquainted (so the one week wonder would suffer from a higher rate of divorce). I consider that the pre screening and discovering time under the "marriage project" is probably one key of the success for such couples.

I don't think that WM/FSUW marriages have a higher success rate than do WM/WW marriages.  BTW, I am in a "one week wonder" marriage. ;)

On your comments re WW and marriage, I remember my cousin, at close to age 30, was dating a man who came from a family of 13 children, none of whom were married, and he insisted he would never marry.  She stated that was fine, as she never wanted marriage or kids.  My husband laughed at that and told me "What do you expect her to say, when there is no marriage offer on the table?"

A wise man.  After a few years of living together, and one break up (in which they sold their jointly owned home), he did propose.  They now have two children.

Another story.  My husband was speaking to a man he works with.  The  man was in his early thirties, and had been living with his girlfriend for several years.  My husband asked if they were planning to marry.  "No," the man responded, "my girlfriend doesn't care about getting married or starting a family."  My husband told the young man "Yes, she does.  You just don't see it.  A woman's shelf life is much shorter than a man's.  She has invested years in you.  Of course she wants to marry and start a family."

The young man was shocked at my husband's words.  But shortly after, he mentioned marriage to her.  A year later, they had a child and are now expecting their second.  He told my husband "You were right.  She really cared."

I believe almost all WW want to marry, and most want children.  However, society tells WW that to express such a desire is wrong.  It also tends to scare men away, so her chance of finding a suitable man through dating is lessened.  She will seem desperate and undesirable to men if she expresses her wish to marry and have a family life, or she believes this to be the case.  It is safer to say "Oh, I am not looking for marriage, no.  I want friendship and possibly a man to sleep with."  It is not true, and only a rube would believe these words at face value.  If WM, on the whole, stated that their goal in meeting women was to find one to marry ASAP, in the social settings you described, WW would be stating "My goal in life is to find a good man to marry."

FSU society, OTOH, expects women to marry and be mothers.  It is the raison d'etre in being a woman.  The attitude toward women is very different than in the West.  So, it is acceptable for a woman there to express her desire to be married and have a family.

So, blame Western society on the whole, rather than WW.  They are responding to what men seem to want, or, at least, to what they perceive men want.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 18, 2014, 02:52:12 PM

I believe almost all WW want to marry, and most want children.  However, society tells WW that to express such a desire is wrong.  It also tends to scare men away, so her chance of finding a suitable man through dating is lessened.  She will seem desperate and undesirable to men if she expresses her wish to marry and have a family life, or she believes this to be the case.  It is safer to say "Oh, I am not looking for marriage, no.  I want friendship and possibly a man to sleep with."  It is not true, and only a rube would believe these words at face value.  If WM, on the whole, stated that their goal in meeting women was to find one to marry ASAP, in the social settings you described, WW would be stating "My goal in life is to find a good man to marry."

Wow!  Just wow.

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 18, 2014, 02:55:06 PM
Laugh if you wish.  The fact you do so tells me you don't understand women.  That is common among many posters here.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 18, 2014, 03:04:49 PM
Rather than waste any of my precious time trying to "understand" WW myself and other posters here prefer this:

FSU society, OTOH, expects women to marry and be mothers.  It is the raison d'etre in being a woman.  The attitude toward women is very different than in the West.  So, it is acceptable for a woman there to express her desire to be married and have a family.

(or Asian women, or Latin American women, or women from any other Continent except for N. America)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 18, 2014, 03:31:25 PM
If you don't understand something as basic as I have described about WW, what makes you believe you will understand foreign women any better?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JayH on November 18, 2014, 04:03:36 PM
I have to say-- Pat----  as always very interesting thought process and observations and enjoyable and at times entertaining & funny reading.
I am also enjoying reading the other contributions immensely here.
 In another lifetime I was married to a psychiatrist  and well and truly got past  every sentence being over analysed-- a problem I see here with generalisations being treated as absolutes in attitudes .
Regardless--plaudits to all for your patience!! :)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 18, 2014, 05:41:20 PM
This has been around before, I think; but speaking of understanding women . . .
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2014, 12:15:50 PM
I have to say-- Pat----  as always very interesting thought process and observations and enjoyable and at times entertaining & funny reading.
I am also enjoying reading the other contributions immensely here.
 In another lifetime I was married to a psychiatrist  and well and truly got past  every sentence being over analysed-- a problem I see here with generalisations being treated as absolutes in attitudes .
Regardless--plaudits to all for your patience!! :)

thank you for your post.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2014, 12:21:39 PM
This is a very interesting link about how to build and keep a couple :

/http://www.forbes.com/sites/kareanderson/2012/09/03/the-end-of-men-and-the-rise-of-women-and-heated-debate/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kareanderson/2012/09/03/the-end-of-men-and-the-rise-of-women-and-heated-debate/)

the best passage imho is here :
"Contempt, they have found, is the number one factor that tears couples apart. People who are focused on criticizing their partners miss a whopping 50 percent of positive things their partners are doing and they see negativity when it’s not there. People who give their partner the cold shoulder—deliberately ignoring the partner or responding minimally—damage the relationship by making their partner feel worthless and invisible, as if they’re not there, not valued. And people who treat their partners with contempt and criticize them not only kill the love in the relationship, but they also kill their partner's ability (http://pni.osumc.edu/KG%20Publications%20%28pdf%29/109.pdf) to fight off viruses and cancers. Being mean is the death knell of relationships."
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2014, 12:25:08 PM
From the same article :
"Every day in June, the most popular wedding month of the year, about 13,000 American couples will say “I do,” committing to a lifelong relationship that will be full of friendship, joy, and love that will carry them forward to their final days on this earth.
Except, of course, it doesn’t work out that way for most people. The majority of marriages fail, either ending in divorce and separation or devolving into bitterness and dysfunction. Of all the people who get married, only three in ten remain in healthy, happy marriages, as psychologist Ty Tashiro points out in his book The Science of Happily Ever After, which was published earlier this year."
I was on 50% of failed marriages after 7 years, it is worse than i thaught.

s

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2014, 12:30:39 PM
This has been around before, I think; but speaking of understanding women . . .
Just the Mystery method and two or three years of field, and you will doing well...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 19, 2014, 10:24:25 PM
This has been around before, I think; but speaking of understanding women . . .

That's for Western Women obviously.  The reason that guys date and marry women from the FSU is because it's a lot clearer where you stand; you don't have to put up with the constant silly head games.

Guys reading this thread need to ignore the static and pay close attention to what Patagonie is saying.  You can either waste a decade or more of your life with women who don't appreciate you in a society which as the OP states above constantly spits on men, or you can go to where you are the prize and where you can command what it is you want -- as long as you are a decent guy with a decent income .

Not only that, but you can date a younger more slender, more beautiful, more intelligent, more feminine (insert quality here) than the women from the West who are usually borderline obese or worse yet "BBW" (and they think their hot), tatoo's, drug problems (420 "friendly"), bi-sexual who think that having sex with their girlfriend is not cheating (and putting your life at risk for STD) etc. etc.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 19, 2014, 10:33:15 PM
I am not culturally Ukrainian.

This is now abundantly clear.  You're a Western Woman "feminist"; and it's you who does not understand women; yet you want to lecture us.

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 19, 2014, 10:58:43 PM
I'm not lecturing anyone.


I have, through my life, known literally hundreds of WW.  UW as well.  Among the WW I know, none have tattoos, most have been married for at least a decade, and most have children.  What sort of circles do you travel in that you come across tattooed women, women who use drugs, lacking in intelligence, etc. (though with your appalling spelling and punctuation, you may wish to consider how you judge the last item on the list).


I do think Western society needs to change to be more family oriented, but there are plenty of problems in Ukrainian society.  Don't assume the culture is "better" than in the West.  It's not.


The absolutes as you have presented suggests a man with personal issues.  And the issue is not WW.   Men who don't like women don't fare any better long term with (Slavic/Latin/Asian) etc. women than they do with WW.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2014, 02:08:02 AM
That's for Western Women obviously.  The reason that guys date and marry women from the FSU is because it's a lot clearer where you stand; you don't have to put up with the constant silly head games.

Guys reading this thread need to ignore the static and pay close attention to what Patagonie is saying.  You can either waste a decade or more of your life with women who don't appreciate you in a society which as the OP states above constantly spits on men, or you can go to where you are the prize and where you can command what it is you want -- as long as you are a decent guy with a decent income .

Not only that, but you can date a younger more slender, more beautiful, more intelligent, more feminine (insert quality here) than the women from the West who are usually borderline obese or worse yet "BBW" (and they think their hot), tatoo's, drug problems (420 "friendly"), bi-sexual who think that having sex with their girlfriend is not cheating (and putting your life at risk for STD) etc. etc.

Thank you for your post.
This is exactly "or you can go to where you are the prize" what a member was promoting in his forum http://zonzonworld.com/mens-value-is-plummeting-in-usa (http://zonzonworld.com/mens-value-is-plummeting-in-usa), even if he recently married with an american women which proves that there are decent women everywhere. However his experience describes what you are writing.  Marriage dating or LTR dating  are clearly in favor or the man when he starts to date abroad. It is  not only because of economical differences. The main stream of FSU women would be happy with what they consider as upper middle class western men. Unfortunately as they have a distorted understanding of the west, the upper middle class is in fact the 10-1 % of the top earning class, which leads more to the well off group, if you want the dream to be possible.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2014, 03:06:30 AM
I was two days ago reading the newspaper. The first page title was something like "Women work accidents have  increased of 20%".
Smelling the booby trap, i started to search some serious material about this.
It was quite difficult, but finally i focused about the fatal accidents, all the others should be barely in proportion of these ones. My statistics are not recent but this is not the point (they come from a gouvernement institute in charge  of the workforce's health).
The point is (excluding fatal trips transportation, in which still men got the most fatalities (75 %)) :

MEN :
695
WOMEN
44

Ok let say that yes nine more women died from such accidents last year, so  it should be a national revolution : parliament should once more and immediately legislate in this area and millions of people should go in the streets to protest.
That that's the tone setted by medias around such informations.

And who cares about the 695 ? It just bad smelling meat, no ways to talk about this garbagge.

And when you start to notice about "genders" informations, and you analyse it very carefully, you begin to realize how numerals and appearance are twisted. This is a total lack of respect for men and global mass media  manipulation.

I have only one word : this is totally disgusting.

But the problem is that it happens every day in the western world.
A journalist reporting such twisted informations, if it were  about women, would no so longer keep his job. At least he would suffer for a fierce challenging and a lot of attacks.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 20, 2014, 03:56:58 AM
I was two days ago reading the newspaper. The first page title was something like "Women work accidents have  increased of 20%".
Smelling the booby trap, i started to search some serious material about this.
It was quite difficult, but finally i focused about the fatal accidents, all the others should be barely in proportion of these ones. My statistics are not recent but this is not the point (they come from a gouvernement institute in charge  of the workforce's health).
The point is (excluding fatal trips transportation, in which still men got the most fatalities (75 %)) :

MEN :
695
WOMEN
44

Ok let say that yes nine more women died from such accidents last year, so  it should be a national revolution : parliament should once more and immediately legislate in this area and millions of people should go in the streets to protest.
That that's the tone setted by medias around such informations.

And who cares about the 695 ? It just bad smelling meat, no ways to talk about this garbagge.

And when you start to notice about "genders" informations, and you analyse it very carefully, you begin to realize how numerals and appearance are twisted. This is a total lack of respect for men and global mass media  manipulation.

I have only one word : this is totally disgusting.

But the problem is that it happens every day in the western world.
A journalist reporting such twisted informations, if it were  about women, would no so longer keep his job. At least he would suffer for a fierce challenging and a lot of attacks.

Sadly this is a normal thing in the West, and people become so accustomed to the propaganda putting down men while simultaneously putting women on a pedestal that they don't even notice it any more.

In US politics the stratagy of the Democratic party has been to claim that there is a "war on women" when in fact the opposite is true:  there has been a war on men in the West for the past 50 years. 

It's only by going to a culture and a society where a man can escape the matrix of an artificially contrived society, and see how men and women have interacted for thousands of years; that a guy can finally free himself of the lies and constraints which have been holding him back from living his dreams.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: pitbull on November 20, 2014, 05:48:26 AM
You misspelled "live", it should be life.  If you want to call somebody else's spelling "appalling" then you may wish to do a better check of your own.

Guys, let me point out two obvious problems here:

You see what happens when you disagree with a Western "feminist"?  Suddenly you come under the usual personal attacks.  Suddenly:

a)  I'm not intelligent because she alleges that I made spelling and punctuation errors.

and this one is really crucial to understanding the usual drama from the WW

b)  Suddenly I don't like women!   ;) 

That one is really the creme de la creme.  You can see the usual need to try to conrol a man by putting him down.  Oh, if only I could travel in her cricles, if only this, if only that.

Or guys, you can do what Patagonie suggested and take the red pill.  Get out of the matrix that the WW with her myriad of issues wants to trap you in.  As you can see above -- their number one tactic is a control issue -- agree with me, or else.

Take the red pill guys.


I am as FSUW as as they come and I completely agree with Boethius. My AM husband never said a bad word about AW. He likes and respects women, period. When I was searching, men like you who trash all WW went straight into trash. From my experience and reading stories on forums for RW abroad for the last 10 years, men who badmouth all WW are mostly just sad losers with personality problems and control freak inclinations. It is general advice on RW forums to stay away from those men.


If all you can get in the US is trailer trash women (trust me FSU has a fair share of those) this points to your own flaws. I've been here for 10 years and know hundreds of AW. They are all well educated and either want a family or are happily married with children and happy husbands.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: fathertime on November 20, 2014, 07:36:35 AM



I do think Western society needs to change to be more family oriented, but there are plenty of problems in Ukrainian society.  Don't assume the culture is "better" than in the West.  It's not.


The absolutes as you have presented suggests a man with personal issues.  And the issue is not WW.   Men who don't like women don't fare any better long term with (Slavic/Latin/Asian) etc. women than they do with WW.


Why does western society NEED to be more family oriented?  What do you mean by this?


Thanks,
Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Pkeel1 on November 20, 2014, 07:58:56 AM
This has always perplexed me a little.  I think Boethius and Pitbull are correct, and I also agree with Pat.  I think all three are saying roughly the same thing. 

AW and FSU are not all that much different, but the part that does create some difference is the availability of a good woman.  I have many friends that are happily married and have been for a long time to AW.  And those ladies are fantastic and good women, but they are not available women.

I have used the dating sites here and I have met more than a few women here.  Some were not interested in me and I was not interested in some of them.  Some were just plain undatable messes.  But I am in a more rural area and the pool of available women is not large. 

Two things set the FSU women apart from the local... One thing is distance, it is about a one hours drive to a sizable city here, I would be happy to make the drive and I am able to relocate if it is necessary, but the women there are not interested in a "long distance" relationship.  So the FSU woman that is willing to make the leap of distance and culture is in my opinion much more committed to a relationship than the AW woman.

The other issue is a FSUW seems more interested in dating as a purpose rather than as a diversion.  She seems more focused on where it will go in the long run than in having her Friday night's date card filled in.

I will say, I have no experience with younger women and what they might be like; AW or FSUW, I have no idea.  I would not even consider a FSUW under 40.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 10:16:33 AM
I was two days ago reading the newspaper. The first page title was something like "Women work accidents have  increased of 20%".
Smelling the booby trap, i started to search some serious material about this.
It was quite difficult, but finally i focused about the fatal accidents, all the others should be barely in proportion of these ones. My statistics are not recent but this is not the point (they come from a gouvernement institute in charge  of the workforce's health).
The point is (excluding fatal trips transportation, in which still men got the most fatalities (75 %)) :

MEN :
695
WOMEN
44

Ok let say that yes nine more women died from such accidents last year, so  it should be a national revolution : parliament should once more and immediately legislate in this area and millions of people should go in the streets to protest.
That that's the tone setted by medias around such informations.

And who cares about the 695 ? It just bad smelling meat, no ways to talk about this garbagge.

And when you start to notice about "genders" informations, and you analyse it very carefully, you begin to realize how numerals and appearance are twisted. This is a total lack of respect for men and global mass media  manipulation.

I have only one word : this is totally disgusting.

But the problem is that it happens every day in the western world.
A journalist reporting such twisted informations, if it were  about women, would no so longer keep his job. At least he would suffer for a fierce challenging and a lot of attacks.

I don't see why this is disgusting.  Other than the sex trade, women have generally not worked in professions that are dangerous (coal mining, construction, transport, oilfield services, military).  So, as they enter those professions, the rate of fatalities will increase.

It could be that the overall number of deaths of men in those professions (other than military) declined.  It is also possible that the total number of fatalities in the professions declined, but that there were female victims where there were not in the past.

Had I read a similar article, I likely would have taken from it that women are now entering traditionally (dangerous) male professions.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 10:17:57 AM

I am as FSUW as as they come and I completely agree with Boethius. My AM husband never said a bad word about AW. He likes and respects women, period. When I was searching, men like you who trash all WW went straight into trash. From my experience and reading stories on forums for RW abroad for the last 10 years, men who badmouth all WW are mostly just sad losers with personality problems and control freak inclinations. It is general advice on RW forums to stay away from those men.


If all you can get in the US is trailer trash women (trust me FSU has a fair share of those) this points to your own flaws. I've been here for 10 years and know hundreds of AW. They are all well educated and either want a family or are happily married with children and happy husbands.


Exactly.  As usual, you said it better than I did. :)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 10:23:21 AM

Why does western society NEED to be more family oriented?  What do you mean by this?


Thanks,
Fathertime!


Western societies are not structured in a way to make life easy for couples with children, in most ways.  Popular culture also is focused around "me, me, me", for both young women and young men.


I think the diversity of Western societies, and tolerance of different lifestyles is a good thing.  However, there is a lack of balance.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 20, 2014, 10:28:10 AM
.....create some difference is the availability of a good woman.  I have many friends that are happily married and have been for a long time to AW.  And those ladies are fantastic and good women, but they are not available women.

Two things set the FSU women apart from the local... One thing is distance, it is about a one hours drive to a sizable city here, I would be happy to make the drive and I am able to relocate if it is necessary, but the women there are not interested in a "long distance" relationship.  So the FSU woman that is willing to make the leap of distance and culture is in my opinion much more committed to a relationship than the AW woman.

The other issue is a FSUW seems more interested in dating as a purpose rather than as a diversion.  She seems more focused on where it will go in the long run than in having her Friday night's date card filled in
.

I've bolded the obvious differences.  Of course we all have friends and family who are married to great AW -- and like you said they are not available. 

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 20, 2014, 10:32:34 AM
Welcome to Russian Women Discussion!
 
Russian Women Discussion (RWD) is the premier and most progressive resource for those interested in a romantic relationship with a partner from the Former Soviet Union. At Russian Women Discussion you will uncover the truth through highly relevant and factual discussions about International Relationships and about the risks/rewards which await the intrepid adventurer in his travels to former Iron Curtain countries.
 
 
 
Everything you need to know about how to create a successful long-term international relationship is here, including information about finding, courting, marrying, immigration and adjustment into your country, and life after marriage.
 
 
 
Russian Women Discussion is about international relationships with Russian Women. We commonly use the term "Russian Women" to mean women from any of the countries of the Former Soviet Union. The media sometimes refers to them as "Mail Order Brides." Here at Russian Women Discussion you can learn the real truths about meeting, marrying and building a happy family and a successful International Relationship.


(Some people seem to need constand reminding about what the purpose of this forum really is  :o)


 :clapping:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 10:33:15 AM
Some should read Dan's ripostes to such posts.


BTW, you received a response from a real, live RW. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 10:36:43 AM
As his journey and eventual success in finding a wife, I respect Patagonie's effort in this thread, and his perspective.  Even if I don't always agree with his conclusions.


I just wanted you to know that, Pat.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2014, 01:46:39 PM
I don't see why this is disgusting.  Other than the sex trade, women have generally not worked in professions that are dangerous (coal mining, construction, transport, oilfield services, military).  So, as they enter those professions, the rate of fatalities will increase.

It could be that the overall number of deaths of men in those professions (other than military) declined.  It is also possible that the total number of fatalities in the professions declined, but that there were female victims where there were not in the past.

Had I read a similar article, I likely would have taken from it that women are now entering traditionally (dangerous) male professions.

IMHO you are correct about that some women are now in traditionnal male professions, however the traditionnal oriented  male and female occupations are still respected, so it is unlikely that you will meet a lot of women around computers or men in midwife career.

But my point was not here, it was about medias focusing about a micro event missing the main point which was  that men, in outstanding proportions, are filling the casualities and any actions taken would have a huge lever arm on men fatalities (women fatalities being insignificant the result would be invisible).

More generally, i have realised last years that a lot of informations are twisted (and not only about the gender rapport). BO  you have, for example, it seems to me, tell me if i am wrong, dig a lot about the ukrainian crisis and all the russian deny and global political manipulation.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2014, 03:53:15 PM

I am as FSUW as as they come and I completely agree with Boethius. My AM husband never said a bad word about AW. He likes and respects women, period. When I was searching, men like you who trash all WW went straight into trash. From my experience and reading stories on forums for RW abroad for the last 10 years, men who badmouth all WW are mostly just sad losers with personality problems and control freak inclinations. It is general advice on RW forums to stay away from those men.


If all you can get in the US is trailer trash women (trust me FSU has a fair share of those) this points to your own flaws. I've been here for 10 years and know hundreds of AW. They are all well educated and either want a family or are happily married with children and happy husbands.

Everyone here should remenber on which gate he is boarding.
Women coming right from FSU, have entered without delay in a married life.

To make simple
Two years ago my socials were 90 % singles 10% married or couples
Today : 85% couples or married and 15 % singles.
And i think that FSU women are in average more exclusive than AW for what the guys with whom i have discussed told me (married to FSU women).

So when you meet barely exclusively couples you are not really in  the informations' mainstream of all fights that singles have, about meeting separation/divorce, loneliness ....
BO you have probably if you have male customers more experience about social/economical life because of your occupation.

So long time married couples have the perspective of "normal" couples around them and are not really confronted to the reality of a failure between 50/70 % divorce rate. And so,  singles are more aware about the rest.

Trashing a gender works both side, it is recommended for a man in FSU to raise a red flag when the lady  is spitting on locals men in a repeated way.
You  also need to know that men in the west are not likely to criticize women in front of women, due to different effects. One is that a lot of men have never left the blue pill. But it is possible that they keep secret some thinking.  (DON'T see here, please, any personal attacks).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 05:45:48 PM
IMHO you are correct about that some women are now in traditionnal male professions, however the traditionnal oriented  male and female occupations are still respected, so it is unlikely that you will meet a lot of women around computers or men in midwife career.

But my point was not here, it was about medias focusing about a micro event missing the main point which was  that men, in outstanding proportions, are filling the casualities and any actions taken would have a huge lever arm on men fatalities (women fatalities being insignificant the result would be invisible).

More generally, i have realised last years that a lot of informations are twisted (and not only about the gender rapport). BO  you have, for example, it seems to me, tell me if i am wrong, dig a lot about the ukrainian crisis and all the russian deny and global political manipulation.


Media is distilled and presents a particular perspective.  That is why it is important to read different perspectives, to try to ascertain the truth.


What I "got" from your description was merely an article on how the world is changing for women.  I've read plenty of articles on the high rate of death in mining, and those articles focused exclusively on men.  I didn't view that particular focus as anti woman, in any way.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 05:54:25 PM
Quote
BO you have probably if you have male customers more experience about social/economical life because of your occupation.


Yes, the majority of my clients are men.  Most of them are extremely successful, and about half are divorced.  Some, multiple times.
Quote
So long time married couples have the perspective of "normal" couples around them and are not really confronted to the reality of a failure between 50/70 % divorce rate. And so,  singles are more aware about the rest.



The failure rate is not really 50%.  That figure comes from the fact that for every two marriages annually (in the US), there is one divorce.  That statistics are even more skewed, as second marriages, particularly with blended families, have a higher rate of divorce than do first marriages, and third marriages have a higher rate of divorce than do first and second marriages.


But, I get your point. 
Quote
Trashing a gender works both side, it is recommended for a man in FSU to raise a red flag when the lady  is spitting on locals men in a repeated way.You  also need to know that men in the west are not likely to criticize women in front of women, due to different effects. One is that a lot of men have never left the blue pill. But it is possible that they keep secret some thinking.  (DON'T see here, please, any personal attacks).



Yes, that is true about trashing men.   However, the attitude toward women is different in FSU societies (or at least, the Slavic portions).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Photo Guy on November 21, 2014, 12:09:03 AM
I think the diversity of Western societies, and tolerance of different lifestyles is a good thing.  However, there is a lack of balance.

Interesting. Can you elaborate? What do you mean by 'lack of balance'?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 21, 2014, 12:36:30 AM
Things seem to tilt one way as the ideal, or another.  Most people really muddle in the middle.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Photo Guy on November 21, 2014, 12:39:32 AM
Things are now easier after five weeks.
Daughter is making progress when reading the language, and she starts to understand some basic french.
My wife is now owning the home. Some would say that i have "slaved" her in domestic work, but the truth is that she don't work so her daily rythmin has to find some things to do. So she comes along with daughter to school four days per week and she cooks. She also starts to do more cleaning.
As men i do little job and all repair for the home and the family, and i work and take care of business.

Everyone made his quarrel or sulked, this week it was daughter. I am aware of this. Any guys should be aware that he will have to manage this type of behavior (and you will let sweat some irritation).
I met an ukrainian girl of 35 married to a a fellow countryman and she told me that she was hysteric the first year.

The fact is also that often guys are older and use to live alone. Generally ukranian ladies used to live in communauty (with mother, children), so the "gap", added to all cultural differences is more difficult to fulfill.

I see now that Pat is able to reveal some really important and interesting aspects of the re-adjustment period that a newlywed couple goes through, and specifically what happens between two people of different cultures
.....applause.....kudos...... I really like his perspective.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 21, 2014, 12:46:48 AM
Is it the oppression, or is there really less gays in Ukraine (and lesbians) ?

What do you think ?

Of course there are not fewer gays/lesbians.  As for oppression, it depends on the area of the country.

Ukraine was the first former Soviet republic to repeal the law against homosexuality.

Until a few years ago, it was not an issue at all.  In artistic circles, particularly ballet, it was well known and completely open.

I have a friend in Kyiv who is openly gay.  He wears his hair long, it is obvious that he is gay to anyone familiar with gay men.  However, I suspect your wife would not have recognized him, just as she said she had never met a gay man (she just likely never recognized the gay men around her).

Now, gays have rights, though not the right to marry, or adopt children, in Ukraine.  There are gay activists but, unfortunately, there are gay bashers now as well.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Photo Guy on November 21, 2014, 01:00:56 AM
Things seem to tilt one way as the ideal, or another.  Most people really muddle in the middle.

I would guess that the two extremes are:
1- a traditional view, where the couple has a goal of a successful family relationship where children are nurtured, and there are values promoted. Important qualities would be loyalty, patience, forgiveness, tolerance, prudence, education, etc., Qualities that support the family unit and strengthen it.
2- a view that values fun and enjoyment for the individual, physical and emotional ecstasy, orgasms, living in the moment, avoiding making sacrifices, etc.

And of course one extreme does not necessarily preclude the other, but generally the former is less selfish than the latter. One favors the family unit. The other favors the individual. Is 'muddle' a word? ....Yeah, I think you are right that many people aren't that conscious of where they are on the spectrum...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 21, 2014, 03:39:36 AM
As his journey and eventual success in finding a wife, I respect Patagonie's effort in this thread, and his perspective.  Even if I don't always agree with his conclusions.


I just wanted you to know that, Pat.
Thank Boethius

My maxim is : if you want to change your life, start to change yourself.

 I try through this forum to give to men, and especially newbies (there are a good chance  if they come here that it means they have the intent to do something differently) the whole journey of a guy who considered himself as standard seven years ago and got a rocket benefit of all of this.
But it is true that you need to kick you ass.
Many men can assess how they are going to get degrees build a career, a business, manage their wealth, but a lot  have no clues about how to navigate through their emotional and sexual  life. It is not teached at school and the weaknesses coming from a bad navigation can cost them a variety of situations : sorrow, depression, bankruptcy, addictions, jail, suicide, and finally unhapiness over all.
Whoever you are, how aged you are, you can give you a first or a second chance. A person i know had been really happy and peaceful five years before his death. That is the most important : he got it and succeed, even if it was only five years, it doesn't matter.
But there will be no Santa Claus  YOU ARE YOUR OWN SANTA CLAUS, let us believe that he will give you many gifts in your life.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 05:04:40 AM
My AM husband never said a bad word about AW.

And yet he spent thousands of dollars, countless hours searching, and travelled approximately 10,000 miles to meet you in Russia.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 05:08:25 AM
When I was searching.....From my experience and reading stories on forums for RW abroad for the last 10 years....It is general advice on RW forums....

Care to tell us why you were searching?  What was it about Russian men that dissatisfied you?  What would make a woman want to leave her country, her family, her friends, her language and her culture all behind?

Of course it might also be interesting to hear from some of the Russian men who rejected you.  As they say, there's always two sides to every story.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: pitbull on November 21, 2014, 06:44:51 AM
Care to tell us why you were searching?  What was it about Russian men that dissatisfied you?  What would make a woman want to leave her country, her family, her friends, her language and her culture all behind?

Of course it might also be interesting to hear from some of the Russian men who rejected you.  As they say, there's always two sides to every story.


Sure....


Most men would not work for marriage for me, Russian or otherwise. I had a very specific set of requirements for a future spouse so I opened my search to men that I share one language with, and that would be English or Russian. I dated Russian men at the same time. I happened to fall in love with my AM husband.


As to the Russian men who rejected me, one thing they will all complain about is that I do not tolerate stupidity  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 07:00:54 AM

Sure....


Most men would not work for marriage for me, Russian or otherwise. I had a very specific set of requirements for a future spouse so I opened my search to men that I share one language with, and that would be English or Russian. I dated Russian men at the same time. I happened to fall in love with my AM husband.


As to the Russian men who rejected me, one thing they will all complain about is that I do not tolerate stupidity  ;D

Which proves my point.  You're a control freak, and the only way you could find a man submissive enough to want to be with you was to look in the USA. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 21, 2014, 07:05:49 AM
It should be clear for the FSU racers (those who want to live with an FSU women)that  the marriage is a mandatory option, unless they relocate abroad. Or they are extremely lucky to meet a FSU girl having all the right documents to leave with you (generally she is divorced)

For the others i want inform you about this :
 six reasons why men are avoiding marriage, by Helen Smith PH D :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXQf2f2Yxo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXQf2f2Yxo)

We will discuss later about the true benefits about this, but you have to quickly reconsider your romantism blue  pack if  you wanna  hunt locals, just in case that you have been intoxicated with the "be romantic get a marriage, be a nice boy buy her a wedding dress,  to be a real man is to get married, marriage is engagement".

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: pitbull on November 21, 2014, 08:40:03 AM
Which proves my point.  You're a control freak, and the only way you could find a man submissive enough to want to be with you was to look in the USA.
If your definition of "control freak" is "a woman who doesn't want to associate with trailer trash", then so be it.
You are definitely safe from marrying a control freak then  ;D
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 21, 2014, 10:24:54 AM
But there will be no Santa Claus.

What a terrible thing to say.  Ruined my dreams.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on November 21, 2014, 01:55:48 PM
And yet he spent thousands of dollars, countless hours searching, and travelled approximately 10,000 miles to meet you in Russia.   :rolleyes:


Do you mind detailing how many thousands of dollars, countless hours and thousands of miles have you spent on your quest?


Just curious.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on November 21, 2014, 01:59:44 PM
Which proves my point.  You're a control freak, and the only way you could find a man submissive enough to want to be with you was to look in the USA.


Hey AC, so you are arguing that YOU should be the control freak and find a submissive woman?  ;)


Because that statement you made sounded very angry.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 21, 2014, 03:26:27 PM
What a terrible thing to say.  Ruined my dreams.

Yeah, you have been a bad boy all the year ML, so no Santa Claus for you !  8) :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 21, 2014, 04:03:40 PM
Now it is time to come back to our trip.  :popcorn:

PetitBlonde and i were at a romantic restaurant with of couple of friends of mine a saturday night.
Don't remember exactly what happened but the tuesday she was in my appartment.

Perhaps you have never been in a french condo but there are two types of.
The first looks like any us or british one. Generally it is couples or families who live here.
The singles live in a different one. They have a sloping floor. Generally the bedroom is at the end of the corridor.
To make short we were in my bedroom both, due to the gravity, barely lying down on my bed.

When you usually kiss a woman  the oxygen volume quickly become impoverished for the lady.
So during the same time i tried as possible help her to breathe by keeping some air between her shirt and her C boobs.
Suddenly she stopped me. It was not a no but something like "please wait".
No knowing at this time of the LMR (last minute resistance), i sat up straight and told her something like "we are not in hurry" giving myself some distance from her.
To make short, because elseif i will inherit of a train of lurkers here, finally the dragon sneezed
And she returned to her flat, located two floors below, cause the spirit of the dragon needed some sleep. 

 

 

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 09:13:40 PM
Because that statement you made sounded very angry.

I'm hardly angry.  It is what it is.  Disgruntled unhappy "feminists" who lash-out at any man who disagrees with their usual diatribes are a dime for every 12 Million.  It takes strength to act like a lady, and weakness to act otherwise. ;D

I've met a lot of lovely FSU ladies over the years, and most are pleasant and happy souls -- witty and to the point yes; angry no.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 09:20:00 PM
.....on your quest?

There is no quest my friend, there's only one day at a time.  Que sera, sera.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 23, 2014, 05:12:15 AM
Are women starting to complain about men not being to pick them up  ?

http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/ (http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 23, 2014, 08:19:20 AM
Are women starting to complain about men not being to pick them up  ?

http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/ (http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/)

Quite simple.  It's just the chickens coming home to roost.

Today's gals can thank their feminist mothers and grandmothers for what is happening.  Along with society in general which has deemed that males must loose all their aggressive tendencies that have been around for eons and adopt the more 'correct' behavior of females.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 09:29:31 AM
Quote
Now, the unfortunate paradox for a woman is that she must be the chased and the chaser. She must be the target and the shooter. She must play coy and simultaneously pursue him.


No, the above (from the link) has always been true.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 10:34:00 AM

No, the above (from the link) has always been true.

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 10:43:45 AM
It has been.  If you understood women (in general), you would not be single.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 10:49:42 AM
It has been.  If you understood women (in general), you would not be single.

I may be single , but I have plenty of company.  If you understood men better you might be able to grasp a few things; but you don't.  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 23, 2014, 11:19:24 AM
It seems to me that a possible answer depends on three parameters which are :

1/ HB level2/
2/ Culture and level of femininism achieved in the considered country
3/ State of sexual or settle up desire of the woman.

To fix some ideas, a 9's is not likely to chase you, she is likely to deliver one or few IOI to let you continuing to hit her.
In swedish countries men are more and more passive so women are chasing more than before.
If her pussy is boiling or she is under the baby pressure it is likely that she will take some initiatives.



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 23, 2014, 11:20:30 AM
Is it true that NYC is considered to disfavor women, because more women than men ? Just want to know.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 11:27:17 AM
It seems to me that a possible answer depends on three parameters which are :

1/ HB level2/
2/ Culture and level of femininism achieved in the considered country
3/ State of sexual or settle up desire of the woman.

To fix some ideas, a 9's is not likely to chase you, she is likely to deliver one or few IOI to let you continuing to hit her.
In swedish countries men are more and more passive so women are chasing more than before.
If her pussy is boiling or she is under the baby pressure it is likely that she will take some initiatives.

As your video pointed out UT there are specific reasons why men are not chasing many WW.  The exception of course are men who marry their High School or College sweethearts. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 11:31:35 AM
Is it true that NYC is considered to disfavor women, because more women than men ? Just want to know.

I've heard this rumor but don't know if it's true.  I was only in NYC once just passing thru and there certainly were a lot of model looking women.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 12:25:47 PM
Patagonie,

How many years did you spend dating WW before you decided to look to the East?

Had you been married in the West before to a WW and it did not work out?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 23, 2014, 02:38:55 PM
Patagonie,

How many years did you spend dating WW before you decided to look to the East?

Had you been married in the West before to a WW and it did not work out?

We can say that i spend 20 years to date WW and i was never married before (so don't say that i am an angry vindictive macho, i was having no stake around this topic, just i came across, as i have explained previously, thousands of divorcees and singles).
But the game came only the last two years previous my eastern journey. (red pill quickly followed by the game as you will discover trough my incoming posts).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 02:48:21 PM
We can say that i spend 20 years to date WW and i was never married before (so don't say that i am an angry vindictive macho, i was having no stake around this topic, just i came across, as i have explained previously, thousands of divorcees and singles).
But the game came only the last two years previous my eastern journey. (red pill quickly followed by the game as you will discover trough my incoming posts).

During the 20 years that you were dating WW, did you meet even one who you felt was not only a good marriage prospect, but who also wanted to get married with you in particular?

I find it astonishing that in one-tenth of the time, you found and married your wife. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 10:40:28 PM
Are women starting to complain about men not being to pick them up  ?

http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/ (http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/)

My answer to this article is similar to ML's.  WW fought a battle for "equality" and modern young men are giving it to them.  Opening doors, buying a woman drinks, paying for dinner, are all chauvinistic rituals.  More importantly the type of woman who isn't getting the romantic treatment that she allegedly desires is probably not worthy of it. 

Truly feminine women are in very short supply in the West and are snapped up and married. 

The rest are destined to write blogs with a mixed message complaining that men don't behave like they did in the 1950's. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 24, 2014, 12:11:32 PM
During the 20 years that you were dating WW, did you meet even one who you felt was not only a good marriage prospect, but who also wanted to get married with you in particular?

I find it astonishing that in one-tenth of the time, you found and married your wife.

No ones proposed me to get married. If I found some nice girls ? Yes.  Good marriage prospect ? I think so, probably.
But the real decision to find marriage prospects started five years ago only. I decided to go to FSU, but WW were also part of the match when i started.
We can say that before marriage was not in my mind and/or things didn't allow such perspective.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 24, 2014, 01:43:14 PM
No ones proposed me to get married. If I found some nice girls ? Yes.  Good marriage prospect ? I think so, probably.
But the real decision to find marriage prospects started five years ago only. I decided to go to FSU, but WW were also part of the match when i started.
We can say that before marriage was not in my mind and/or things didn't allow such perspective.

Do you think that the difference in Western mentality had something to do with you not proposing to a WW?

So it may be that you were sowing some wild oats and also had no intention of getting married.  This is true of many men from the West in their 20's and early 30's.

At least when you went to the FSU it was clear that it was what the majority of women wanted -- there was never any doubt about it, was there?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on November 24, 2014, 02:02:15 PM
Do you think that the difference in Western mentality had something to do with you not proposing to a WW?

So it may be that you were sowing some wild oats and also had no intention of getting married.  This is true of many men from the West in their 20's and early 30's.

At least when you went to the FSU it was clear that it was what the majority of women wanted -- there was never any doubt about it, was there?


LMFAO


As if the FSU women have a lock on wanting to get married.


Here's some news for you AC.


If and when you find one of these "maidens" don't be surprised that after a year or two, she will "turn" into an American "feminazi." To avoid that, make sure you find a very uneducated village girl that doesn't speak a word of English, and then prohibit her learning the language. Also, make sure she has no means to leave the house and is totally dependent on you.


Failure to comply will be devastating to your "dream."


 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 24, 2014, 02:13:46 PM
As if the FSU women have a lock on wanting to get married.

As usual you're deeply confused my friend.  I am not interested in marriage; I'm only making conversation with the author of the thread.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on November 24, 2014, 02:15:45 PM
As usual you're deeply confused my friend.  I am not interested in marriage; I'm only making conversation with the author of the thread.


Oh, my bad. So you are not looking, eh?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 24, 2014, 02:23:11 PM
Those who go to the FSU please recognize that FSUW are not compliant women.  Far from it.  You can get a sense of Russian women in the posts made at RWD over the years.   Frankly, I prefer it. 

The expression I recall from many RW is they wanted a man at their side.  They did not want to be behind a man.   

 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 24, 2014, 02:29:37 PM
Maybe Turkey is a better place to find a traditional women.  The Turkish president said today women cannot be treated as equal to men. :o :o :o :o

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30183711

Perhaps he was misquoted.  However, the same man claimed earlier this month that "Muslims had discovered the Americas more than 300 years before Christopher Columbus."   He states that Columbus saw a mosque on a Cuban hill.  If so, such is still 200 years after the Vikings, and a long time after human tribes had migrated from Siberia to the Americas.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslims-predate-columbus-in-discovering-america-says-turkish-president-erdogan-9863682.html
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 01:51:20 AM
Those who go to the FSU please recognize that FSUW are not compliant women.  Far from it.  You can get a sense of Russian women in the posts made at RWD over the years.   Frankly, I prefer it. 

The expression I recall from many RW is they wanted a man at their side.  They did not want to be behind a man.

I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that.  What was said is that they are more serious about getting married.  It was also said that they are slimmer and better looking on average than their WW counterparts, and that a man might be able to marry a younger one.  I recall reading one of your posts where you brag that your wife was a model and that she is much younger than you, so apparently there is some truth in that.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 25, 2014, 02:18:11 AM
Do you think that the difference in Western mentality had something to do with you not proposing to a WW?

So it may be that you were sowing some wild oats and also had no intention of getting married.  This is true of many men from the West in their 20's and early 30's.

At least when you went to the FSU it was clear that it was what the majority of women wanted -- there was never any doubt about it, was there?

No it has nothing to do with the western mentality because i was not ready and i didn't think about marriage.
It is only five years ago that i decided to settle down.
When i decided to settle down i thaugt about a proposition of one of my best wife's friend, a russian woman who had always told me "you should meet eastern women".
After my decision was taken it needed me two months to prepare my first travel. During all my FSU journey i still actively dated locally but more i spent time with FSU women and more i noticed how, in average, WW were shallowed and damaged for a LTR. It doesn't mean that i didn't find some nice woman, but finally among the WW there was always something wrong, or my feelings were not enough strong, or her profile didn't fit what i wanted.

It is difficult to say if what i did answered to what a majority of FSU women wanted because, as Boethius wrote it, the women i met were profiled and filtered.
However with my actual knowledge of the country and his demeanor i would FSU women are more likely to be married, in an outstanding proportion. The man is wanted and the natural answer to welcome a man is to live with him, and as they like actions more than words.
 They would like to know if you are ready to cross the rubicon.
Anyway, technically, you need to get married to live with your woman in your country. Except the case of ML, or if you relocate you cannot avoid this, you need this documents.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 25, 2014, 07:36:26 AM
I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that.



Not precisely, yet something I interpret as a  possibility.


                                 2 + 2 = 4

2    ("You're a control freak, and the only way you could find a man submissive enough to want to be with you was to look in the USA")

                                           +

2    (use of the term feminist broadly in a derogatory sense)


                                           =


4    (someone who probably has outdated misconceptions about how to value women, not to the point of oppressing women, yet failing to respect them deeply and fully)

That quite possibly is not your case.  However, the 2 + 2 above are not the intellectual vigor I have seen in some of your other posts.   Also, my statement from yesterday was not directed to you or otherwise I would have quoted you directly.  Yet please do not deny that some men going to the FSU seek not only a pretty, young woman but one who has attributes such as deferring to the man if conflicts can not be resolved.   



Quote
What was said is that they are more serious about getting married.
 

The two dating pools of WW and FSUW differ.  FSUW listed with an international marriage broker can be described as follows:

1) They are a small subset of the entire population of FSUW.

2)  They should indeed be serious about getting married if they elect to take the step of listing themselves.

3)  Above average beauty (otherwise agencies would not list them).   


The WM's dating pool of WW is not such a subset, and individual samples from one should differ from the other.   



Quote
It was also said that they are slimmer and better looking on average than their WW counterparts, and that a man might be able to marry a younger one.

Someone not knowing better would infer this as objectifying if not commoditizing FSUW.   

Quote
I recall reading one of your posts where you brag that your wife was a model and that she is much younger than you, so apparently there is some truth in that.

I am very proud of her.   8) Besides being pretty and young, she revels in her femininity.  I could go on and on, yet keeping to the germane attributes, she is independent, having been self-reliant for much of her adult life.  I really enjoy the aspects of her strong personality that enabled her to accomplish that, and in our marriage I strive to empower her.  I too have a strong personality.  This combination makes for some spirited discussions at times,  :arguing: :D  more than I have ever had with an AW.    Yet it strengthens our relationship.  Life together is wonderful.  :couple:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 25, 2014, 08:03:56 AM
As a member throwed a link nammed "boycott american women" i went to the web to search some  reactions as the site is long bashing towards american women.
One came in defense of men :
"greenderss (http://gravatar.com/greenderss)    September 13, 2013 @ 05:15                  Nobody is trying to marry a submissive Russian or Asian women. You just proving to everyone how clueless you are.  I am Russian myself and most women in Russia are not submissive, but they have more family values than majority of american women. Asian women also are more family oriented and have lowest divorce rates compared to US, with highest divorce rates in the world 89% of which are initiated by women.
 While in the US army most of my friends who married american girls got divorced due to women cheating while they were away on deployments or blowing all their money, when 4-6 of my friends that are married to women abroad are still going healthy. Are you going to tell me these men that served several combat tours have no balls too? They are just going for someone more traditional, more family oriented. Also Russia, Asia does not have OBESITY problems and age/look much better due to avoiding sun, unlike here in america where women stupidly bake in tanning salons and sun despite the fact that it was proven that sun and UVA is one of the biggest reasons of skin aging/cancer.
 Now tell me why are men choosing foreign skinny/healthier girls, with more family values, lower divorce rates VERSUS American women that age badly due to tanning, have obesity problems due to bad diet and initiate 89% of divorces in a county with the highest divorce rate in the world. Obviously, they just want someone to build a healthy lasting family with, someone who regards family with higher value due to culture without having to worry about possible divorces, wife suing the man over and taking all possessions, etc.
On a side note, why are there millions of dating websites targeted at american men seeking foreign women, but almost none targeted at foreign men seeking american women."

interesting opinion about tanned skin (it reminds me my wife, so i guess this post is not a one faked by a man or a WW)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 09:05:19 AM
Someone not knowing better would infer this as objectifying if not commoditizing FSUW.   

I am very proud of her.   8) Besides being pretty and young, she revels in her femininity.  I could go on and on, yet keeping to the germane attributes, she is independent, having been self-reliant for much of her adult life.  I really enjoy the aspects of her strong personality that enabled her to accomplish that, and in our marriage I strive to empower her.  I too have a strong personality.  This combination makes for some spirited discussions at times,  :arguing: :D  more than I have ever had with an AW.    Yet it strengthens our relationship.  Life together is wonderful.  :couple:


So are you admitting to objectifying and commoditizing your wife?  Because that's what it sounds like.  My experience with models is that most do not have a decent education and most have no career prospects once their modeling career is over. 

Other than that I say congratulations -- as long as you support each other like a team.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 10:02:46 AM
On a side note, why are there millions of dating websites targeted at american men seeking foreign women, but almost none targeted at foreign men seeking american women."

Well duh!     :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 25, 2014, 10:20:51 AM
Quote
why are there millions of dating websites targeted at american men seeking foreign women, but almost none targeted at foreign men seeking american women.


Because women, generally, would not actively seek foreign mates.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 10:51:41 AM

Because women, generally, would not actively seek foreign mates.

Are you implying that Russian men would try to date WW if they did?  Because most would not; but those who did might be looking for a green card.  And a small percentage might actually be looking for love.  Same; but in reverse.  Sometimes people just like foreign accents and different ways of looking at things then what they've got at home (is the grass greener, or is it just more interesting?).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 25, 2014, 10:57:59 AM
There have been attempts to start such sites.  All have failed.   The issue is one of supply/demand.  RM need not look abroad, as there are more RW than RM looking for marriage.



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 25, 2014, 11:47:20 AM

So are you admitting to objectifying and commoditizing your wife?  Because that's what it sounds like.

Now that is an example of twisting.  Care to explain how you inferred such?

Quote
My experience with models is that most do not have a decent education and most have no career prospects once their modeling career is over.


My experience differs, admittedly limited to one.  To elaborate will be more bragging and I have exceeded my quota.  Suffice it to say at 49 she is not ready to settle down.   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 11:53:33 AM
Now that is an example of twisting.  Care to explain how you inferred such?
 

My experience differs, admittedly limited to one.  To elaborate will be more bragging and I have exceeded my quota.  Suffice it to say at 49 she is not ready to settle down.

Does she have a job now or are you her sole financial support? 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 25, 2014, 02:41:11 PM
Does she have a job now or are you her sole financial support?

What do you think?  What are the constraints most RW face when emigrating to the US?   And what does that have to do with the future? 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 25, 2014, 09:43:47 PM
What do you think?  What are the constraints most RW face when emigrating to the US?   And what does that have to do with the future?

Not criticizing at all here . . . but I need to brag again.

Ochka spent 3 strenuous years as student at University, and now has job as math instructor at major state university.

One year in Intensive English Program and 2 years in Master of Science degree program.

I am super proud of her and her accomplishments.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 11:56:14 PM
What do you think?  What are the constraints most RW face when emigrating to the US?   And what does that have to do with the future?

I'm really not sure -- please pardon if my question was insensitive.  What I am getting at is I think women feel empowered and happier if they have even a part-time job outside the home.  Each women is different, but in general I think this is true.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 11:58:13 PM
Not criticizing at all here . . . but I need to brag again.

Ochka spent 3 strenuous years as student at University, and now has job as math instructor at major state university.

One year in Intensive English Program and 2 years in Master of Science degree program.

I am super proud of her and her accomplishments.

Is your Ochka with you in the USA, or is she still back in Ukraine?  Sorry but I don't know much of your story, except I read you were back in Ukraine (working on a house or apartment)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 26, 2014, 12:48:06 AM
RM need not look abroad, as there are more RW than RM looking for marriage.

I believe you.  I also believe the Russian women to be slimmer, a bit more beautiful and better dressed than their WW counterparts.   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 26, 2014, 01:11:48 AM
I don't think they are more beautiful.  Slimmer, yes.  But, their men are significantly slimmer than WM as well.  Better dressed?  I don't know if I would say better, but definitely more neatly dressed (pressed, polished).  However, that is also the case with FSUM who are not drunkards vs WM. (by Western, I mean North American.  FSUW are not slimmer, or more stylish than the Parisian women I saw.  I have been told, by more than one traveler, that Italian women are also very stylish and slim, as are Nordic women).

Looking at external factors in choosing a spouse is not a recipe for a happy marriage. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 26, 2014, 01:17:41 AM
But, their men are significantly slimmer than WM as well.

That's false.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 26, 2014, 01:18:52 AM
No, it isn't false. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 26, 2014, 01:47:54 AM
I don't think they are more beautiful.  Slimmer, yes.  But, their men are significantly slimmer than WM as well.  Better dressed?  I don't know if I would say better, but definitely more neatly dressed (pressed, polished).  However, that is also the case with FSUM who are not drunkards vs WM. (by Western, I mean North American.  FSUW are not slimmer, or more stylish than the Parisian women I saw.  I have been told, by more than one traveler, that Italian women are also very stylish and slim, as are Nordic women).

Looking at external factors in choosing a spouse is not a recipe for a happy marriage.
Being french i would give my opinion about the stylish french or italian women (and i spent 7 years in Paris not so far from Champs Elysées and all  HQ ). It is a myth.
I think that in any big city all around the business districts you have a bunch of stylish men and stylish women due to their occupation. More generally when you are far from these business district you will get the real picture of how stylish is a country. It will give you the true colors of how stylish or fashion a country is.
France is the country birth of many fashion talents and companies (i saw few  months ago the fashion museum in Paris beside the art modern museum) but haute couture is quite confidential. A mode country doesn't necessary mean that their inhabitants are fashion or stylish.
For what i can tell you in my work nowadays (we are far from any business district) is that no more than few percent, man as  women, are stylish.
So in Ukraine, compare to France, a contest is not needed to say that ukrainian women are absolutely more stylish than french women in average. And i am sorry to tell you that, except business men, ukrainian men are a nightmare about fashion. At the best they are groomed with casual clothes (perhaps they think that is stylish or fashion clothes but it is not)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 26, 2014, 01:53:44 AM
Patagonie, I have been to Paris, walked all around, took the metro from one end of the city to the other, stayed in the 18th arrondissement, in a non tourist neighbourhood, and these are my observations.  I have never seen as many beautiful, stylish, and slender women as I did in Paris.  The men, on their way to work, were breathtaking. 

UW, on the whole, dress like tarts.  It is what I describe as a flower for a bee.  As a bee, you perhaps find it more appealing than do I.  ;)   In North America, women cannot dress as they do in Ukraine, as they'd be harassed continuously. 

UM who drink do not dress well.  Most men after work are dressed casually, but again, when you see men going to work, they are generally more neatly dressed than are men in North America, or at least, in the parts of North America I've been in, which is pretty much everywhere but the US East coast.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 26, 2014, 02:07:45 AM
About BMI a difference has to be done.
Italy, France, Belgium are the slimmest.
USA, England got a higher BMI.
I think that Ukrainian men are close to the best european, but slimmer than us/englank guys.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/File:Overweight_and_obesity_-_women,_2008.png (http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/File:Overweight_and_obesity_-_women,_2008.png)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6148456.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6148456.stm)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 26, 2014, 02:15:46 AM
(http://www.mostbeautifulman.com/athletes/sidneycrosby/images/pic03.jpg)
His BMI at the time this photo was taken was 27.9, making him significantly overweight.

BMI doesn't take into account different body types, particularly with muscle mass.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 26, 2014, 04:11:26 AM
(http://www.mostbeautifulman.com/athletes/sidneycrosby/images/pic03.jpg)

 

To tell you the truth BO, as you show a photo of me to the forum, i would like to tell you that i never felt overweighed ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 26, 2014, 11:06:55 AM
Is your Ochka with you in the USA, or is she still back in Ukraine?  Sorry but I don't know much of your story, except I read you were back in Ukraine (working on a house or apartment)

You can read my story in the thread in this TR subsection.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 27, 2014, 08:19:08 AM
Red pill : how did it take place

So when i wake up in the morning i heard my phone ringing. An
 incoming SMS was telling me : "hello darling, have a nice day !"

I put it in my pocket and started to smile.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 01, 2014, 04:11:23 AM
So i came into a new relationship very easily and without any plan or fantasm about this woman.
She introduced me to her two daughters, one was 16 and the oldest was 19.
The  boyfriend of the elder was a little older than her but very mature for his age, already making a living.
Few time after she also introduced me to her parents.

So all was very comfortable because it was very easy to spend time together and also to have some  private time.
I don't know why but i fall in love with her and the best expression to describe what whas happening was : to fly. I flied with this woman.
Believe me it didn't happend a lot of time. It can happen few minutes or few hours but rarely for days or for weeks. We were a family, but better than a family, without the usual constraints, finally for the best.
Due to my high sportive condition  i could do anything that the young people would do and we were also having an interesting intellectual exchange all of us. The older daughter i guessed, was more than friendly attracted to me, and looking back with my today's knowledge i can confirm it.
I was not only flying, i felt myself very strong and my thinking was that i was the exact guy i wanted to be. I, for the first time of my life, was at a level never previously achieved, enjoyed a family life.
To be the exact guy you want to be gives you no uncertanity on your identity, no headache about what your actions can or could breed. You mainly enjoy the moment and it gives you a lot of strengh.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Photo Guy on December 01, 2014, 11:04:29 AM
Thank you for this heart-warming story.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: fathertime on December 01, 2014, 12:13:36 PM
So i came into a new relationship very easily and without any plan or fantasm about this woman.
She introduced me to her two daughters, one was 16 and the oldest was 19.
The  boyfriend of the elder was a little older than her but very mature for his age, already making a living.
Few time after she also introduced me to her parents.

So all was very comfortable because it was very easy to spend time together and also to have some  private time.
I don't know why but i fall in love with her and the best expression to describe what whas happening was : to fly. I flied with this woman.
Believe me it didn't happend a lot of time. It can happen few minutes or few hours but rarely for days or for weeks. We were a family, but better than a family, without the usual constraints, finally for the best.
Due to my high sportive condition  i could do anything that the young people would do and we were also having an interesting intellectual exchange all of us. The older daughter i guessed, was more than friendly attracted to me, and looking back with my today's knowledge i can confirm it.

Your writing style is a little different so I may have misunderstood but did you say your wife's 19 year old daughter was interested in you as well?
Fathertime!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 01, 2014, 12:28:42 PM
Your writing style is a little different so I may have misunderstood but did you say your wife's 19 year old daughter was interested in you as well?
Fathertime!
Correct, attraction is not a choice.  :P
But nothing never happened  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on December 01, 2014, 12:55:27 PM
Correct, attraction is not a choice.  :P
But nothing never happened  ;D

However I don't think that the 19 year old daughter was his wife's daughter, but that of a GF.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 01, 2014, 04:47:18 PM
However I don't think that the 19 year old daughter was his wife's daughter, but that of a GF.

Yes - his wife's ONLY daughter is MUCH younger than that!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: fathertime on December 01, 2014, 05:26:02 PM
Correct, attraction is not a choice.  :P
But nothing never happened  ;D


However I don't think that the 19 year old daughter was his wife's daughter, but that of a GF.
Yes - his wife's ONLY daughter is MUCH younger than that!


Gotcha, I was trying to just get a gist of what was going on...between these 3 posts I have a better understanding...carry on now!


Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 02, 2014, 01:40:16 AM
AC 18/20
AnotherWiki 18/20
FatherTime 7/20

 8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 02, 2014, 09:58:22 AM
The sky was clear,
The sun was high
The air was pure

Just

Just few weeks later i found a guy on a motorbike of her age waiting in front of her window. When she came in her appartment at the same time she seemed to be disturbed, so much that she started to smoke, which she was not do it often.
She was holding a letter in her hand.
"It is my ex husband (but still not divorced)"

The day after a letter of 10 pages was on her desk but all nervousness had gone and she was exactly the same person  i used to see every day. I found quite curious that a guy could  write a 10 pages letter to a person who had left him almost four years before.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on December 02, 2014, 10:20:16 AM
AC 18/20
AnotherWiki 18/20
FatherTime 7/20

 8)

Another Wiki?   ;)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 02, 2014, 10:21:10 AM
Yes we miss another wiki here  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 02, 2014, 10:22:29 AM
Hoping that he will forgive me the typo
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 03, 2014, 04:31:04 AM
Recently a guy was writing in a post something like : in relationships, just be yourself and it will be just fine.

This is exactly what a lot of female friends would  tell you to help you, however such advices rarely help in the dating field, except if you are a natural gamer. Be yourself has a thick perfurme of blue pill, just to prevent the maleness which had been largely castrated during the last three decades to recover from.

My question is : why firms are investing so much money in training like :
Related to our topics i have sorted from just a 2013 IT training catalog.
Weirdly a lot of training are just proving the opposite : don't exactly stay the same.

(i am not ticking off all training, it will be too long)

Personal Development

Win procrastination
Keys for personal adaptation
Improve your behaviour flexibility
Be actor or your own development
Take a decision and how to sell it
Prepare yourself to work abroad
Strenghten your self  confidence
Improve your charism and your self confidence with theater role (AT)
Control your emotions to be more efficient
Know of to step back and when to let it go
Mental card, fondamentals
Mental card, advanced
Improve your professional comfort
Optimize your communication
Passive listening for better communication
Passive listening and questionning advanced
Develop a genuine and constructive communication
Know how to improvise
Develop constructive non hierarchical relationship s
Be successful with intercultural relationships
Negiociate with success level 1
Negiociate with success level 2
Efficient communication by email
Improve your voice

Marketing and communication :
Master your interview

Commercial and customer relations
Transactionnal analysis
Improve your voice to better sales
Be comfortable during first contact
Listen to better sales
Dealing with objections
Sell on phone
Dealing with difficult customers
Win back lost or inactives customers
Improving your writing to reinforce the customer relations
Improve customer satisfaction.
Be successful with customers
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 04, 2014, 05:28:02 PM
Hoping that he will forgive me the typo

You're forgiven  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 08, 2014, 02:16:12 AM
Ptite blond in the vicinity :

After two months ofa  nice relationship with a high harmony between all of us i saw her coming one evening and going around circles in my kitchen and started to tell me ....
"you know what Pat, i want to tell you that i am not in love with you"

This moment was surrealist. It was exactly like if you were knowing a UK gir for two months, all her family speaks english, she has never learnt any other language and suddenly she starts to speak greek for two minutes.

I couldn't believe my ears so after a short moment i told her : "ok if you are not, so you can stay i at home and it will be done".

The following morning she sent me a SMS "hello darling" and every hours and days were exactly the same as the previous ones, except two minutes of greek language.

I have heard so many western girls making problems of themselves, to rack their brains that i quickly  stopped to take care about this incident.

My mistake
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on December 08, 2014, 01:34:09 PM
Ptite blond in the vicinity :

After two months ofa  nice relationship with a high harmony between all of us i saw her coming one evening and going around circles in my kitchen and started to tell me ....
"you know what Pat, i want to tell you that i am not in love with you"

This moment was surrealist. It was exactly like if you were knowing a UK gir for two months, all her family speaks english, she has never learnt any other language and suddenly she starts to speak greek for two minutes.

I couldn't believe my ears so after a short moment i told her : "ok if you are not, so you can stay i at home and it will be done".

The following morning she sent me a SMS "hello darling" and every hours and days were exactly the same as the previous ones, except two minutes of greek language.

I have heard so many western girls making problems of themselves, to rack their brains that i quickly  stopped to take care about this incident.

My mistake

It's the normal schizophrenia of available Western women.  Nothing more, nothing less.
Title: the wussy land
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2014, 06:38:23 AM
Our family had gone in the city for a big celebration  well attended because we have usually around one million of people for this event.
As it was a little cold we jumped into a thai restaurant.
It was quite busy but there were still two or three tables free.

After we were seated a young lady, with three boys, all around 20 and 25 entered. She was a quite good looking blond, i gave her a 7+. Her suitors were not so bad, one was however a little overweighted, but as he was young with a nice figure, it disadvantaged him  not so much.

You have to understand that from now it is not me who is telling you a story :
it is my wife.
In fact i was showing my  back to them so it was my wife who told me all.
"All guys seem annoyed but they try to joke and to smile to her constantly"
"She is now close to the guy beside her playing both with his phone, so the two others don't know how to do"
"The fattest guy is more and more nervous"
" The fattest guy is biting his nails"
"The guy beside the fattest guy try to discuss with him"
"The fattest looks very nervous o my god"
Finally the fattest one and the guy beside him stood up to go outside to smoke, the two others decided to follow and all of them went to the sidewalk. 
The cherry on the cake soon, i saw it because i was almost turned front to the entriance door :
When she finished her cigaret, she left and was the first to return inside, ALL of them following without any delay like perfect soldiers of the national guard, closely grouped behing her.
I couldn't believe it.

The wussy land, surrounded by the wussies !
And to tell you more few days before we were seing a movie at home. It was about a couple in a french island and the guy was the witness of a murder. Just the problem is that on this isand to shut up is the rule. So the film was quite slow, the guy was seek, couldn't sleep after the murder, don't call the police, couldn't tell to her GF, don't know what to do .... My wife started to be so tired et so nervous  of this movie  that she left the living room beofre the end.

So three guys one girl.
I can tell you the script.

Calling Peter, Peter on message box, no message left.
John do you want to see the celebration with me ? John (getting a hard dick instantly) yes that is a nice idea when and wher  can we meet ? .............
John calling his buddy Tom "Tom sorry i cannot see you because you know this hot chick i met last time at Ninkasi, she invited me to the celebration. Tom "good luck my friend".
Girl calling Brad "hey Brad what do you do for the celebration". Brad normally plays hockey at the end of the afternoon. "Nothing special, why ?" "i would like to go to the celebration, what do you think ?" "that's a nice idea when and wher can weet ?"
Girl calling Chris, Chris already on line, hang up.
Girl calling Philipp, "how are you Philipp ?" "Nice, please to hear you", "What do you think if we can meet to see the celebration, would you like to come ?" "Philip, nothing to do. "Yes I ..........................."
And that is done.

Ukrainian version :
the guy who believe that he will date the girl alone (notice that at any time in the  she gave information about her being alone or not, and notice that no guy is asking informations on this topic (nice western educated men would not take the risk to upset, even one second, a lady. He would not take the risk in fact to loose her) and see already an other guyat the meeting  has a lot of chances to tell her fuck you, and if not it has some chance to finish in a fight.
That is simple.

So the inhabitants of the wussy land spent an upsetting and annoying evening hiding their flat dick below the table while the girl was thrilled because it is always an ego boost to have three suitors on your feet following you like a herd of sheeps.
During this time she had a total control and can choose the one she likes, make any test she wants (my wife called them, both of three the rabbits ten time at least). However my bet is that none of them would go along with her, to their final indignation
We left before them but i would not be surprised if the rabbits would have paid her the diner.

So this special celebration,
 far to be the pussy paradise for our three rabbits
was the wussy land, camp one. 
Title: Wussy land : retro analysis
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2014, 06:58:07 AM
So guys,

Allow me to do the retro analysis of such type of event, which happens more often than you can think.
It will be a mix of woman (we have a lot to get and learn from them) and game.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 11, 2014, 04:39:12 AM
So when a woman you don't know so much call you or contact you the best is to copy them :

--> they ask questions.
 Men ask question about meeting's organization.
 Women ask question  about who will be at the meeting, or why the meeting is happening.

So do the same as they do.
But the most important is not about questionning, it is about to have the exact frame which will lead you automatically to act in the right way, which will be far from the wussy land.

If you ask you  constantly the question "Is it worth to go to this meeting, is it worth for me ?" and you give a real an deep questionning through the terms of your own satisfaction, needs and self esteem,  you will never have to learn some canned questions (if she says this i have to ask this ..... If she says B/ i have to answer F....), the ones you are generally forgetting through stress and fatigue.

So is it worth for me/for you  to go ? (if you know that she has invited Peter, Brad, Tom, Philipp and you are not yet friends, buddys from the university ... In fact you almost don't know this chick)

Damned No, an NO and no, no way !

But if she lets you know that you will be only two, so yes it is worth.
If not it  means that your value is very low, it means that you have no value, ESPECIALLY if you play her game, because have you noticed that SHE is now writing the rules of the game.

What is your interest, even if she is good looking gril (7+), your interest is not to enter in a box or any situation where your value would be immensely deflated. I know no women dressing for an elegant party who is ready to play a game where they would have to crawl with their cocktail dress. They wouldn't play, purely ans simply. They would not put them in a situation where they become a fool.

In the field it will be something like this :
Hey John, how are you doing ?
I am fine  and you ?
All is ok, i was thinking about this celebration tuesday
Yes it is a very beautiful spectacle, but very crownded (let her coming)
Yes i would like to go, would you come with me ?
Why not and who else is coming, Have you gather a group ?
Yes i called some people
And who are they (don't step in her trick), someone i know ?
I think bla bla
So if you don't feel it just say, that is very nice but i have to call some friends first (your friends are more important than a chick that you don't know so much - that is the frame, this is exactly the same frame that girls apply to guys they almost don't know  have you noticed ?)  because they have proposed me to go few days ago.

Please note how you can rebound the day after by saying "My friends have their car broken so they cannot come, so i will be free finally" (even if your friends don't have their car broken)

At this point you don't even need to call her back if your decision is to not to go. She will understand that you are busy with your friends and her value is not so high, which is exactly her true value as soon as she tries to push you to play the wussy role.

However sometimes you cannot avoid to be in such depleasant situation, because it is life, because the girl hided her game to trap you or you didn't get the right information to assess in advance that it was a trap.

In this case it is simple :
If you are the first and the girl don't want to move it means that you have to wait some other people. When all people are here and you understand that it is a trap just start to walk with the group and open your phone and do like you are getting a call.
Hey, what are you saying aunt Anna ? Grandmum falled in the stairs ! How my god ! Use a loud voice and all will be fine. Tell them that GrandMam has fallen in the stairs and leave.
If you meet the group one hour later just say that you have gone but she was finally not seriously injured.
These type of shit excuses they use it all the time, don't be shocked this is a western women language.
You don't need to fight with the othes guys or to call her names. This is the soft version of how to get out of this type of trap.
You don't let her to make a puppet of yourself, and if others guy do it accordingly it is her who  spends an annoying evening.

I cannot imagine some ukrainians women doing this : i think they would be in trouble very quickly.

The game version is quite different : you over game through the group all others guys who are generally AFC/nice guys to play the difference and attract her. That works, i played it  twice times.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 14, 2014, 01:21:22 PM
This is the beginning of the introduction of an article written by a woman from Canada :

INTRODUCTION    One's first impression upon visiting the mail-order bride ("MOB") web sites and reading the catalogues is of personal ads for singles in the age of globalization. (2) The growing solitude of adults who have gone through difficult relationships, separations, and divorces--coupled with the difficulty of meeting compatible, available people--leads many to turn to specialized introduction services in the hope of meeting a soulmate. Today this phenomenon has assumed global proportions. The global quest for romance has been made possible by the growing accessibility of information technology networks and international travel. In this theoretical scenario, the ultimate goal is an intercultural marriage, with the objective of enabling the woman to immigrate.
  While the first impression offered by international introduction agencies corresponds to the way the mail-order bride agencies and the First World husbands describe themselves, this first impression does not take into consideration the point of view of women. (3) Indeed, anti-feminist backlash is a recurring theme on the mail-order bride web sites. (4) A closer look at the mail-order bride practices of these introduction agencies--which I will also refer to as MOB practices--reveals multi-dimensional and interrelated inequities that place the bride in a position of dependence in relation to her First World husband. The true result of the MOB practice is a flourishing and lucrative industry involving the trafficking of women from the Third World to husbands in the First World.
  The mail-order bride trade feeds on highly unrealistic and contradictory expectations about marital relationships. The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate. (5) He seeks a MOB specifically because of sexist sentiments, and his hatred and fear of the feminist movement. He rejects women of his own nationality as wives because he considers them to be aggressive and egotistical. He believes they are too ambitious, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands. He criticizes the desire of women for autonomy, independence, and equality. The bride, on the other hand, desires an American of the Hollywood star variety: a good, respectful, faithful, and loving husband and father. (6) The ideal type is white, tall, and has blue eyes. This trade is founded on the crudest of stereotypes, where the merchants of dreams--the MOB agencies--get rich not only at the expense of the First World husbands, but above all at the expense of the brides.



Lets me know your comments and you do feel after reading it ? How do you feel comparing this with your experience ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 01:32:00 PM
Reading forums such as this one, and, presumably, others in a similar vein, I can see how she came to that conclusion when it comes to men.  That type of statement is common on forums, though there are men who reject it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on December 14, 2014, 01:43:33 PM
?
This is the beginning of the introduction of an article written by a woman from Canada :

(snipped)

Lets me know your comments and you do feel after reading it ? How do you feel comparing this to your experience ?

Some is accurate. 

Simple reality is, a white Western European/Canadian/American guy, can go anywhere in the world and be seen as a good man , a "high value" man, that most women will have some interest in.  This includes of course, Asia, India, as well as FSU.

Perhaps the writer should ask:

"OK, white European guys are seen as high value for marriage.  But why are white European women, not seen as high value for marriage?"
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 01:51:05 PM
Since the majority of European white women are married, or have been married, your speculation on value is misplaced.

Quote
Simple reality is, a white Western European/Canadian/American guy, can go anywhere in the world and be seen as a good man , a "high value" man, that most women will have some interest in.  This includes of course, Asia, India, as well as FSU.

This has nothing to do with the man or his white skin, but rather, economics and perhaps, social/political stability in the man's country of origin.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on December 14, 2014, 02:00:00 PM
Since the majority of European white women are married, or have been married, your speculation on value is misplaced.

This has nothing to do with the man or his white skin, but rather, economics and perhaps, social/political stability in the man's country of origin.

Sorry I wasn't specific; I meant, "woman going outside her own country" ; as in , a woman from Western Europe going to China, India, that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 02:01:37 PM
Women aren't made/programmed that way.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 15, 2014, 03:33:31 AM
I have decided to rewrite the introduction trying to deliver a more neutral point of view :
 
INTRODUCTION    One's first impression upon visiting the mail-order bride ("MOB") web sites and reading the catalogues is of personal ads for singles in the age of globalization. (2) The growing solitude of adults who have gone through difficult relationships, separations, and divorces--coupled with the difficulty of meeting compatible, available people--leads many to turn to specialized introduction services in the hope of meeting a soulmate. Today this phenomenon has assumed global proportions. The global quest for romance has been made possible by the growing accessibility of information technology networks and international travel. In this theoretical scenario, the ultimate goal is an intercultural marriage, with the objective of enabling the woman to immigrate.

While the first impression offered by international introduction agencies corresponds to the way the mail-order bride agencies and seeking men describe themselves, women here play a very passive role. A recurring theme on the mail-order bride web sites is the opposition curently made between american women and the women they advertise.
A closer look at the mail-order bride practices of these introduction agencies--which I will also refer to as MOB practices--reveals differents points of view. As a western woman it is seen as a multi-dimensional and interrelated inequities that place the bride in a position of dependence in relation to her First World husband. As men it is seen as a logical answer to a dating dynamic which clearly disadvantages him in his society and castrates him as male. Some others would say that the true motive are economics and some would say that is about demographics, a third party might highlight that two cultural genders disparities can gather for the best.

The true result of the MOB practice is a flourishing and lucrative industry. Again, for western women it is understood as  a trafficking of women from the Third World to husbands in the First World. For men it is the hope to find a better, nurturing partner. At the end the sad reality of the MOB is that the total number of people married thanks to the MOB is very low compared to the effort done by seekers.

  The mail-order bride trade feeds on  realistic expectations in term of human beings about marital relationships.
Western women consider that The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate.  He seeks a MOB specifically because of sexist sentiments, and his hatred and fear of the feminist movement. He rejects women of his own nationality as wives because he considers them to be aggressive and egotistical. He believes they are too ambitious, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands. He criticizes the desire of women for autonomy, independence, and equality.
Western men consider that the missing part of local women can be completed abroad. They can find beauty, education, feminine and trustable partners abroad and therefore they can stop to lower their standard which only lower themselves at the end. They try to flee the endless confrontation with women in theirs countries  to reach a more peaceful daily life with the partner they want to love. They want to renew with gender complementarity, and to find the sense to be the most important thing in woman's eye, not for one week, but for ever.

The bride, on the other hand, desires an American of the Hollywood star variety: a good, respectful, faithful, and loving husband and father. (6) The ideal type is white, tall, and has blue eyes.
For western women this trade is founded on the crudest of stereotypes, where the merchants of dreams
Men on an other hand truly believe that a good, respectful, faithful, loving husband and father is a a winner and they are thrilled to discover how valuable they are abroad when they can offer such ideal. If this is a Hollywood variety they consider that many of them are truly Hollywood stars.
the MOB agencies--get rich not only at the expense of the First World husbands, but also all at the expense of the brides, by generally preventing them to meet and by wrecking any rising international relationships reasons.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on December 15, 2014, 08:24:52 AM
Quote
Western women consider that The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate.
Too broad. 

The problem with you guys is ego.  Most WW never give a thought to men who seek foreign wives.  Most (note, not all, most) of those that do, I'm afraid, would overwhelmingly apply the term "loser" to such men.

So, I reject the neutrality of the above statement in your post.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 15, 2014, 09:33:21 AM
Too broad. 

The problem with you guys is ego.  Most WW never give a thought to men who seek foreign wives.  Most (note, not all, most) of those that do, I'm afraid, would overwhelmingly apply the term "loser" to such men.

So, I reject the neutrality of the above statement in your post.
Correct, i should have written
Most western women consider that The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate.  He seeks a MOB specifically because of sexist sentiments, and his hatred and fear of the feminist movement. He rejects women of his own nationality as wives because he considers them to be aggressive and egotistical. He believes they are too ambitious, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands. He criticizes the desire of women for autonomy, independence, and equality. To summarize they often think that those men are "losers".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on December 15, 2014, 09:40:40 AM
Still too broad.

Try - "Most Western women have no interest in the so called "MOB" topic. Some of those that do may believe a Western man is seeking a docile, etc."

Go down your street and ask a dozen women randomly if they have ever thought about the so called "MOB" business.  Most will look at you as if you are insane.

Most people worry more about their own lives, and don't give a hoot what other people are doing in theirs.
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: fathertime on December 15, 2014, 10:32:42 AM
Correct, i should have written
Most western women consider that The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate.  He seeks a MOB specifically because of sexist sentiments, and his hatred and fear of the feminist movement. He rejects women of his own nationality as wives because he considers them to be aggressive and egotistical. He believes they are too ambitious, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands. He criticizes the desire of women for autonomy, independence, and equality. To summarize they often think that those men are "losers".


I don't who really cares about a bunch of slightly older guys going abroad and finding wives.   I think among the people I know, people get it.  I think that people outside my circle of friends probably have a negative viewpoint, and I'm ok with that.  I (and I would hope most others) have nothing to prove to anyone.    I personally find marriage to be a difficult endeavor in that it goes against my desire for independence so for me to get married it has to be one helluva good looking woman with most of the personality traits that I like! the women in America that would work for me, generally wouldn't be interested, and I can understand why.  They have better younger options, so I say good for them!






Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on December 15, 2014, 01:14:24 PM
Correct, i should have written
Most western women consider that The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate.  He seeks a MOB specifically because of sexist sentiments, and his hatred and fear of the feminist movement. He rejects women of his own nationality as wives because he considers them to be aggressive and egotistical. He believes they are too ambitious, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands. He criticizes the desire of women for autonomy, independence, and equality. To summarize they often think that those men are "losers".


This is clearly the narrative that WW want to tell about this industry, because they do not want to acknowledge that they themselves are lacking, and that they themselves do not want to step up their game.  So they engage in the above narrative, which is obviously an attempt at the usual "feminist shaming".

To put it more concisely I will use an anology that Mark Davis uses on his website, and that is that modern marriage to a WW is more of a negotiation; in fact you have not heard the type of words they use except in a business negotiation.  "You have to give 50/50" or you should be willing to give 100% of yourself and hope that your partner does the same".

In fact what is sorely missing (and I got this from Mark Davis's website) is the concept of finding your other half.  When you deal with a woman from a society who believes in her other half, than it's not this nit-picking "you aren't doing this, so I will do this to punish you" (for example withholding sex as a punishment and a means to modify behavior).  Instead it's based on a position of real love -- the woman (or the man) who believes in finding their other half says "why would I do anything to hurt my other half?" and the whole situation is completely different.

You can see from the example Patagonie uses above that it was nothing but the usual game, the usual negotiation with the girl he used as an example who had other guys with her on the same "date".  And you can see the usual feministic type of response to defend the feministic position.


http://dreamconnections.com/relationships/
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 15, 2014, 01:36:36 PM
Still too broad.

Try - "Most Western women have no interest in the so called "MOB" topic. Some of those that do may believe a Western man is seeking a docile, etc."

Go down your street and ask a dozen women randomly if they have ever thought about the so called "MOB" business.  Most will look at you as if you are insane.

Most people worry more about their own lives, and don't give a hoot what other people are doing in theirs.

You go too far, i read again the corrected version i wrote
In fact each time that the word "women"  is  used, and equal word "men" is used. It respects the original spirit given by the canadian author who was globalizing, as i found it intellectualy dishonist i split the text to allow two perspectives, as possible.

Sometimes i use the word "western"  to clarify  in which camp are belonging those men or women (avoiding the confusion between brides and the western women especially).

You have to remember the context : the introducion was written by a women interested in MOB and genders.

To make the original version more acceptable i put in perspective the voice of men and try to soften her voice, which is very feminist oriented.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 15, 2014, 01:41:34 PM

This is clearly the narrative that WW want to tell about this industry, because they do not want to acknowledge that they themselves are lacking, and that they themselves do not want to step up their game.  So they engage in the above narrative, which is obviously an attempt at the usual "feminist shaming".

It is clear that there is a total deny and an  impossibility for some to open their mind (NB : all women don't belong to this category), the formula which can summarize it : it is only men's fault, they are always responsible. A message who have frayed now since five decades

To put it more concisely I will use an anology that Mark Davis uses on his website, and that is that modern marriage to a WW is more of a negotiation; in fact you have not heard the type of words they use except in a business negotiation.  "You have to give 50/50" or you should be willing to give 100% of yourself and hope that your partner does the same".

In fact what is sorely missing (and I got this from Mark Davis's website) is the concept of finding your other half.  When you deal with a woman from a society who believes in her other half, than it's not this nit-picking "you aren't doing this, so I will do this to punish you" (for example withholding sex as a punishment and a means to modify behavior).  Instead it's based on a position of real love -- the woman (or the man) who believes in finding their other half says "why would I do anything to hurt my other half?" and the whole situation is completely different.

You can see from the example Patagonie uses above that it was nothing but the usual game, the usual negotiation with the girl he used as an example who had other guys with her on the same "date".  And you can see the usual feministic type of response to defend the feministic position.


http://dreamconnections.com/relationships/ (http://dreamconnections.com/relationships/)

Interesting, i need to dig this one.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Photo Guy on December 15, 2014, 01:52:44 PM
One of the best things about finding a wife in the FSU, is their lack of a feminist background. This doesn't mean that they are completely devoid of all feminist 'values'. For example, the idea of equal pay for equal work is not shunned. FSUW are generally NOT subservient on a personal level in a marriage. Unlike many western women, they are not all about suppressing their femininity or attaining a masculine role. This is an over-simplification, but you get it. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 15, 2014, 03:16:26 PM
I tried to build a more constructive text than the original one. However if i would have been more critical, i would have written something like that :
This is the beginning of the introduction of an article written by a woman from Canada :

INTRODUCTION    One's first impression upon visiting the mail-order bride ("MOB") web sites and reading the catalogues is of personal ads for singles in the age of globalization. (2) The growing solitude of adults who have gone through difficult relationships, separations, and divorces--coupled with the difficulty of meeting compatible, available people--leads many to turn to specialized introduction services in the hope of meeting a soulmate. Today this phenomenon has assumed global proportions. The global quest for romance has been made possible by the growing accessibility of information technology networks and international travel. In this theoretical scenario, the ultimate goal is an intercultural marriage, with the objective of enabling the woman to immigrate.
  While the first impression offered by international introduction agencies corresponds to the way the mail-order bride agencies and the First World husbands (Term quite insulting for all eastern women showing that they are inferior, consequently it only means that they belong to third world countries. Try to explain to any women of this countries that they live in third countries, make the test ! It is just proven here that the author know not a lot about those dynamics)
describe themselves, this first impression does not take into consideration the point of view of women (the point of view of who ? Point of view of feminists ? Why the society needs to give this exorbitant power to those people ? Because they own the god truth ? And why are they concerned by such international meeting ?  The point of view of women,   does she means the potential eastern brides ? But those women don't need to express opinion and starts to have this endless western blabla, they just want to start a new life for the ones who join, the others being fake agencies profiles)  Indeed, anti-feminist backlash is a recurring theme on the mail-order bride web sites (and here no alarm about how men are reacting ? Perhaps the feel attacked ? No ? )  . (4) A closer look at the mail-order bride practices of these introduction agencies--which I will also refer to as MOB practices--reveals multi-dimensional and interrelated inequities that place the bride in a position of dependence (please take note of how all human relationships are just about a balance of power between genders. In reality for the men the first dependence is on the MOB with financial, emotional and physical risks to be abused. They are also responsible during the K1. For the eastern women the dependence is likely to happen during the first two first years after her relocation, it can also happens to women who have men who prevent them to work) to her First World husband. The true result of the MOB practice is a flourishing and lucrative industry involving the trafficking of women from the Third World to husbands in the First World. (Now we go to the basement, before it was about balance of power, now it is trafficking women, slaves, children, pimping. She misses the point as pimping rarely uses the marriage canal to enslave women)
  The mail-order bride trade feeds on highly unrealistic and contradictory expectations about marital relationships (so is it unrealistic and contradictory to want to be married ? If it is about finding a (read the following sentences) so yes it is unrealistic because few of these women are existing, especially in FSU). The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate. (5) He seeks a MOB specifically because of sexist sentiments, and his hatred and fear of the feminist movement. He rejects women of his own nationality as wives because he considers them to be aggressive and egotistical (the verbal diarrhea continues). He believes they are too ambitious, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands. He criticizes the desire of women for autonomy, independence, and equality. The bride, on the other hand, desires an American of the Hollywood star variety: a good, respectful, faithful, and loving husband and father. (6) The ideal type is white, tall, and has blue eyes. This trade is founded on the crudest of stereotypes, where the merchants of dreams--the MOB agencies--get rich not only at the expense of the First World husbands, but above all at the expense of the brides. (ok i stop to comment because this so out of the reality ....)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 15, 2014, 03:32:33 PM
One of the best things about finding a wife in the FSU, is their lack of a feminist background. This doesn't mean that they are completely devoid of all feminist 'values'. For example, the idea of equal pay for equal work is not shunned. FSUW are generally NOT subservient on a personal level in a marriage. Unlike many western women, they are not all about suppressing their femininity or attaining a masculine role. This is an over-simplification, but you get it.
+1
I never  felt, even one second, through all the time i spent with them, to  be with a subservient FSU woman.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on December 15, 2014, 03:37:28 PM

I don't who really cares about a bunch of slightly older guys going abroad and finding wives.   I think among the people I know, people get it.  I think that people outside my circle of friends probably have a negative viewpoint, and I'm ok with that.




Liar. If it didn't bother you, you would not have brought it up.  :P


I (and I would hope most others) have nothing to prove to anyone.   




Riiight. That's why you came to a Russian women forum and you are married to a latina. Yep. Nothing to prove. Heh


I personally find marriage to be a difficult endeavor in that it goes against my desire for independence so for me to get married it has to be one helluva good looking woman with most of the personality traits that I like!




Usually, and this goes for everybody else that has the same size shoe, when you (in general) try to subdue your partner, normally you will have difficulties in that relationship.


the women in America that would work for me, generally wouldn't be interested, and I can understand why.  They have better younger options, so I say good for them!

Fathertime!   


Oh, I wouldn't say they all want the young studs. They just like a partner, not a master and commander.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on December 15, 2014, 03:38:50 PM
One of the best things about finding a wife in the FSU, is their lack of a feminist background. This doesn't mean that they are completely devoid of all feminist 'values'. For example, the idea of equal pay for equal work is not shunned. FSUW are generally NOT subservient on a personal level in a marriage. Unlike many western women, they are not all about suppressing their femininity or attaining a masculine role. This is an over-simplification, but you get it.


PG, better take off your rose-colored glasses.


My wife always laugh at statements like this. She always claims that the FSU women were the first feminists.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: fathertime on December 15, 2014, 05:43:03 PM

Liar. If it didn't bother you, you would not have brought it up.  :P

 


By your comment, I think it is safe to assume that YOU care a lot about what others (strangers) think, and you shape your actions accordingly.  I don't see why you should though.




Riiight. That's why you came to a Russian women forum and you are married to a latina. Yep. Nothing to prove. Heh


So coming to a Russian forum means a person has something to prove.  That is real solid 'logic'.   :rolleyes:
It does give me a little delight though that my mere presence here prompts you to make silly comments and foam slightly at the mouth. 



Oh, I wouldn't say they all want the young studs. They just like a partner, not a master and commander.


Yes that is generally true.  Regardless, for me personally, I felt I aged out of the type of American lady that would motivate me to the point of marriage. 


Fathertime!   



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on December 19, 2014, 04:11:37 AM
Women aren't made/programmed that way.

I agree with your statement. 

Perhaps it explains why there is sometimes some "man shaming" going on - since women know they are unlikely to go afield for a mate, it follows that they are "stuck" with the in-country pool of men. 

Therefore if men are able to leave but women will not leave, it will mean more competition for a woman to surmount. 

The rationalization, therefore leads women to say "the men who leave must be unworthy".
Title: Operation White Panther ; the red pill
Post by: Patagonie on December 23, 2014, 05:31:37 AM
Ptite blond in the vicinity

So i was in a three months reltionship. A nurturing relationship with a family around me.
And then it came.

the letter

The one which pops up on your computer et just after you open it, just in three seconds you know.
Your heart stops to beat and you are overwhelmed by a tsunami of emotions.
You know that is done. Dismissed.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 08, 2015, 01:32:44 PM
We have just turned two years of marriage.

The first year was the most difficult.
Even if you believe to know and love your partner, his and you character have not been totally explored.
So you are hitting the boundaries which is sometimes explosive.

The difference of culture and how things work in the west need some adjustment for FSU women. There is time for
this country sucks (Ukraine is better) before she starts to see advantages and disadvantages of both system.
THe main concern was the daughter, worrying that she couldn't step in this new education system.
The tranquilization came during the second year. I was aware of the amazing capacity of children to learn a new language and i am not disappointed.

For my wife the story is a little different.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on June 08, 2015, 06:57:26 PM
We have just turned two years of marriage.

Congratulations on your anniversary!  :clapping:

The tranquilization came during the second year. I was aware of the amazing capacity of children to learn a new language and i am not disappointed.

For my wife the story is a little different.

I'm guessing that your wife had/is having trouble learning French.  How good is it now?  Had she studied any at school, or had she only been taught some English?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on June 08, 2015, 07:07:23 PM
Yes, congratulations on your anniversary, Patagonie.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on June 08, 2015, 07:25:25 PM
The first year was the most difficult.



Hey, that's a good thing. It can only mean you and your wife are moving closer together as time goes by, not further apart. Grats on your anniversary!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 10, 2015, 02:11:46 PM
Congratulations on your anniversary!  :clapping:

I'm guessing that your wife had/is having trouble learning French.  How good is it now?  Had she studied any at school, or had she only been taught some English?

Hi fellow,
you are right she struggles with french, but finally her level is not so bad, around B2. SHe learnt it in different schools. She starts to forget english a little bit but she has still a good grasp of the language even if speaking was limited for her.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 10, 2015, 02:14:21 PM
Yes, congratulations on your anniversary, Patagonie.

Thank you Bo for your post.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 10, 2015, 02:19:56 PM

Hey, that's a good thing. It can only mean you and your wife are moving closer together as time goes by, not further apart. Grats on your anniversary!

Hi Billy!
It's good to see you sticking around the forum all these years!
There are many steps through an international marriage, the stakes are higher but the life with a FSU woman is richer.
How your wife is adapting?
Does she work?

Just to know how her english adapted.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 10, 2015, 02:26:45 PM
Congratulations on Your aniversary Pat. Children coming to a New country is not a problem (been there), but it takes more time for an adult. Be patient, it will come.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Hammer2722 on June 10, 2015, 03:16:42 PM
Congratulations Pat!!!!  :clapping:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on June 10, 2015, 04:36:28 PM
Hey Pat, you got two under your belt!! Keep on loving.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on June 10, 2015, 11:24:46 PM
How your wife is adapting?



She didn't need to adapt at all. Zero culture shock.


Does she work?



She's hardly working! She's going through medical school now and volunteering at a local hospital.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 14, 2015, 10:51:13 AM
When a man and a woman meet and marry ....
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 14, 2015, 11:18:02 AM

She didn't need to adapt at all. Zero culture shock.



She's hardly working! She's going through medical school now and volunteering at a local hospital.

Billy, thank you for your answer.
And how many time did she need to be able to learn english enough to go to this school?

I think that volunteering at hospital is a very nice way to make some improvments.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on June 17, 2015, 10:14:24 PM
When a man and a woman meet and marry ....

Holy Mackerel Andy !

Where do you wear these ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 26, 2015, 02:22:39 PM
Hi ML
We wore it both for the happy new year.
I personnaly wear mine more often, even at work.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on June 28, 2015, 12:30:32 AM
And how many time did she need to be able to learn english enough to go to this school?



Actually she knew fluent English before we met. Unfortunately her English is so good that she doesn't have the sexy accent. :(
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 14, 2016, 06:23:27 AM
This summer i had the surprise to use the new trains used on the main lines.
It seems to be that they come from Korea.
(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o718/Patagonie/b3ae5163-b3c1-4fe8-b744-22fb79428452_zpsrud2uvze.jpg)
(http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/Patagonie/media/b3ae5163-b3c1-4fe8-b744-22fb79428452_zpsrud2uvze.jpg.html?state=copy&sp=false)
(http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/Patagonie/media/b3ae5163-b3c1-4fe8-b744-22fb79428452_zpsrud2uvze.jpg.html?state=copy&sp=false)
You can watch the TV, connect to the Wifi (can be very slow sometimes) and use the socket for your laptop or mobile phone.
(http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/Patagonie/media/IMG_20160803_172126_zpsnsreirp0.jpg.html?filters[user]=145630976&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 14, 2016, 06:46:32 AM
Some could believe that the war in Ukraine is just propaganda.
Here are some photos in Kharkiv to remind you what is happening on the front:

(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o718/Patagonie/IMG_20160804_163542_zpso4hcwjen.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 21, 2016, 02:08:08 PM
Dunno if such memorial is present in any ukrainian big city but i believe that's a yes.

(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o718/Patagonie/IMG_20160804_163532_zpsscyqqwru.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 22, 2016, 12:58:58 PM
AA gun, probably 23 mm

(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o718/Patagonie/IMG_20160804_163643_zpskxdyizz4.jpg)
Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 07:48:45 AM
SOME FRESH NEWS FROM PAT:
The fact is i come back after a long time.
It's worth to mention that's largely because there are some guys are really love here and they are great.
I would like to meet them in my life and it could happen because i am having more time now.
Morever il will be entirely free in three years very likely.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 07:54:31 AM
Everybody knows that marriage are at risk now. Mine is over and i got divorced.
But i am fine now and all is over.

I think many followed the thread here and now know how flexible i am. So i have almost rebounded.
Don't get me wrong flexible doesn't mean shallow. I loved my wife (ex), i never cheated on her and did my best for my family.



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 08, 2019, 07:57:13 AM
Sorry for the news, but welcome back Pat.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Hammer2722 on March 08, 2019, 08:04:43 AM
Everybody knows that marriage are at risk now. Mine is over and i got divorced.
But i am fine now and all is over.

I think many followed the thread here and now know how flexible i am. So i have almost rebounded.
Don't get me wrong flexible doesn't mean shallow. I loved my wife (ex), i never cheated on her and did my best for my family.

Sorry to hear that Pat. Sending you best wishes....
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 08:32:14 AM
Some people would say (especially the lowest informed about FSU women) she got her green card, your money and left you.

But my ex wife signed a prenup and she dropped me for a guy (poor) who earns five time less than me. And she was still under ukrainian nationality when that happened.
 
So the fact is that she felt in love with an other guy and my marriage was over in few days.
Some dark side coming from her shined during the prime of the pre- divorce, i will probably go for details later because it could help some beginners (but that would be the same story with a local woman as you need in average three years before enlightening the dark side of your spouse, that's a common point)

THat happens.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 08:35:02 AM

Of course i had been angry, i had had to make my mourny. But i could tell that my anger was more 50% towards oriented this state full of crap, this court 95% filled of women, judges, attorneys and second assistants.
 I discovered that was worst than i thaught, Fairness, equity is just A LIE in family court. This is the peak of the hypocrisy. And i hired the best attorney of my state. You cannot expect more misandry than those people who are supposed to be  the parangon of the justice

That's why, more than ever, i totally don't recommand to marry. And of course never to a local.

It makes all things dirty, it makes you a prey, it puts you at risk every minute before you get the divorce definitively registered, it makes you a forced mute in your interest, it forces you to pay and reward financially the bad behavior, irresponsability and lazyness of the women. Every female judges and female attorneys is amused and consider that is the course of order that you are ripped of and being a woman is an excuse by itself protected by their sisters in law, who are ensuring a large impunity for women, even in the field of the criminal field (accordingly to a study of the french justice herself, and written by two women !!!)This justice is just an HUMILIATION everytime you come along with such crap.

And i am grateful to my attorney who was totally out of any standards and in a great way protected me.
It's why you should never use a woman as attorney in family cases, because more than 90% have the sense what happens to you as a man is NORMAL.

I personnaly aimed to find a compromise, understood that fighting will work against me considering that this whole justice system is total crap and decided to propose money to bail out asap and rebuild my life asap.

Build, rebuild, restore yourself, and rebound was the main line for me. Some members know me and the strenght and resilience i have.

But i suffered two years lost.
Largely one at least was lost because trapped in the such grimy grid of the law i couldn't move my life towards a space of freedom. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 08:38:33 AM
Sorry to hear that Pat. Sending you best wishes....
Thank you very much for your support
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JayH on March 08, 2019, 03:31:43 PM
Very ( very.very) sorry the hear your news today Pat

But-- welcome back. ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on March 08, 2019, 04:59:53 PM
Hi Pat,

Good to see you back here.
I have been patiently waiting for you !!  :-))
We need your wise viewpoints.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 05:11:11 PM
Sorry for the news, but welcome back Pat.
Hi Sandro thank.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 05:17:04 PM
Hi Pat,

Good to see you back here.
I have been patiently waiting for you !!  :-))
We need your wise viewpoints.
Hi ML you are also a very wise man, i appreciate you very much.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: CaptB on March 08, 2019, 11:07:05 PM
Hi Pat,


Sorry to hear of your situation. Welcome back to the board.......and hang in there.


Marc


Capt B
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 09, 2019, 04:22:06 AM
Sorry to hear that Pat. Sending you best wishes....
Thank you Ham.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on March 09, 2019, 02:14:51 PM
A....

Happy to have you back, my friend.  While your situation is not a happy one, at least you can get on with the rest of your life.   Know that you, of course, have friends on here who wish you all the best.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 10, 2019, 04:49:27 AM
Patagonie,

               I'm really sorry to hear about what's happened to you.

You're one of the good guys on here..always looking to give helpful advice to others in their search for a FSU wife.

I believe you'll find the right woman for you in time..so chin up.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 11:59:58 AM
Hi Pat,


Sorry to hear of your situation. Welcome back to the board.......and hang in there.


Marc


Capt B
Thank you Mark
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 12:01:46 PM
A....

Happy to have you back, my friend.  While your situation is not a happy one, at least you can get on with the rest of your life.   Know that you, of course, have friends on here who wish you all the best.
Hi buddy, yes things start to be fine, i am out now.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 12:07:33 PM
Patagonie,

               I'm really sorry to hear about what's happened to you.

You're one of the good guys on here..always looking to give helpful advice to others in their search for a FSU wife.

I believe you'll find the right woman for you in time..so chin up.
Thank you Chelsea.
Find  a right woman is a very easy catch, if you ignore the time parameter in the theorem that's easy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 01:35:36 PM
So now i am back:
We know that every marriage is at stake, every five years half of them die in the big cities. We know also that it is needed three years to let the smoke vanish around the spouses and know about their real weaknesses.
And finally you have to know that 48 % of people are not faithful.

So the fact is i am in the norm ;D :P
I can tell you that i meet a lot of people in the same situation than me.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 01:50:12 PM
I would come along two topics in the future:

1/ the facts or things that made this marriage to derail
It could help some people and give more hints to deep understanding some FSU inherited and cultural behavior
2/ How i have rebounded and what about my actual dating life  :luv: , yes i have one, i waited six months after my ex wife left to hit the bed of an other woman (and i disliked sex with her).

So a lot of people could think "who cares", considering that is a FSU forum. But i suppose that nobody has told you that i am only dating western women  ;D :P now.
How to rebound when you are 54 when you have been married to a FSU woman considered to be close to a model in Europe and 19 younger than you?

Believe me, but i thaught ok, this life is over for me and i will play golf, drive some cars, have lunch with good buddies, see some movies and never touch a woman except accident
But the fact is i was a player and that's like bycicle, you have to ride it again and it comes back.
And life is not so bad now  :P I don't complain

Calibration and DHV (demonstrator of high value) are incredible assets now for me



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 02:08:32 PM
I can guarantee you that i start to have a lot of fun now.

And now more than ever i can see that i am the prize (seems like a little patronizing but the most important is to really understand that the message you get on your daily life as a man in USA or Europe is to kill your self esteem for the purpose to abuse you financially and psychologically easier).
So i am going to tell you some of this real life i have.
 Some will dislike the morale involved, but the fact is my morale has largely lowered, as my level of respect for this western society which has litteraly dropped to the toilet. (many facts come along with this : as politics, economy, professional, the pressure of the feminism and so on).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2019, 07:22:51 AM
Just read the thread update, sorry too about your marriage Pat. You know the others on here way more than me as I'm just recent in comparison but I recall you helping me out on here witg some advice a little while back and appreciate it. I also hold the opinion that western society as in the US, UK etc is entirely damaging to having a long happy marriage. If possible I would live out in the FSU rather than import a girl as western society in my opinion is just a constant erosion on a marriage until most almost inevitably collapse.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 11, 2019, 08:12:59 AM
I met and married a woman in another country twenty years ago...not the FSU.

Worse thing I did was bring her to the UK..

About a year before we split she told me the longer she'd spent in the UK the more westernised she was becoming.

I know of someone who's married to a woman in Ethiopia..but there's no way he'll bring her to the UK.

He says "when I buy her a dress she treats me like a King..if I bought her one in the UK she'd be questioning why it isn't a Versace ".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on March 11, 2019, 10:40:33 AM
I have expressed my regrets to Patagonie privately, and I do not wish to derail his thread, but I will make one comment.  A society does not change a person.  That person was malleable from the beginning.  You just didn't see who she really was.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on March 11, 2019, 12:11:22 PM
Pat, thanks for stopping by with the update.

All of us appreciate your candor.  You have our sympathy and support. 

I made a similar mistake.  And just like I did,  you will recover and be the better for it.  In fact, it seems your recovery is progressing well. 

Life is a precious gift, enjoy it fully.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 11, 2019, 01:01:54 PM
Pat, thanks for stopping by with the update.

All of us appreciate your candor.  You have our sympathy and support. 

I made a similar mistake.  And just like I did,  you will recover and be the better for it.  In fact, it seems your recovery is progressing well. 

Life is a precious gift, enjoy it fully.
Thank you Gator, that's ok now. Two difficult years but four years and half of real happiness, so not so bad.  Life is short as you wrote it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 11, 2019, 04:22:39 PM
TrenchChelsea
I share you ananysis.

Part of my reflexion today is to partially relocate in FSU in the future. There also good things in Ukraine, my ex buddy, a french married with an ukrainian lady was having good time there. For ukranians that's a different story, many struggles and the country is with very little future for most of them. You have a lot of privilege to be an expat or kind of.
No need of a marriage, no western court fulfilled of misandrist judges and attorneys.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 11, 2019, 04:28:13 PM
I have expressed my regrets to Patagonie privately, and I do not wish to derail his thread, but I will make one comment.  A society does not change a person.  That person was malleable from the beginning.  You just didn't see who she really was.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Bo wrote to me and i am investigating what she is explaining to me.
And she is largely right about the fact that my ex wife was hiding what she was (and she was a good manipulator, that was also the opinion of a ukrainian female friend i have in France and who knows her) during the 3 years described as to the be "the heaven time before the smoke has gone"  :D :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 12, 2019, 02:53:51 AM
2/ How i have rebounded and what about my actual dating life

Finally i would prefer to talk about this topic.
When you split with someone there is a process to mourny the relationship. Bruce Fisher described in his book (after the break) the different steps involved. One of those step is to lower his previous partner to help you to leave him.

In fact i am already out of those steps. I have restarted a new life.
So for the moment i would prefer to focus about this new life.

I hope it could help, not people who are already in couples, but the singles ones or at least entertain them while some could enrage and want to  :deadhorse: me ? But in the last possibility i don't care  >:D .
That's something very huge in our societies which prevents us to find our personalities : approval, validation.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: 2tallbill on March 12, 2019, 12:12:44 PM
Mine is over and i got divorced.

Crap,

I am sorry Pat, I thought I would come back and read about the next step in
your adventure. Getting divorced and starting over sucks. I wish you the best

Bill
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 14, 2019, 05:49:55 AM
Crap,

I am sorry Pat, I thought I would come back and read about the next step in
your adventure. Getting divorced and starting over sucks. I wish you the best

Bill
Hi Bill, you will read about my next step in the adventure yes, but not with the same woman ;D
Yeah it sucked two years of my life.

Thank you
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on March 14, 2019, 08:07:28 AM
Sorry for the news, but welcome back Pat.

Patagonie

I know we might not agree on how to find a partner but losing one you loved and lived with is hard.

May you heal well and when / if you return to the fray or move to the FSU, share your knowledge / opinion.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 14, 2019, 01:11:37 PM
Patagonie

I know we might not agree on how to find a partner but losing one you loved and lived with is hard.

May you heal well and when / if you return to the fray or move to the FSU, share your knowledge / opinion.
MSmob, thank you to express your empathy, i appreciate. The world would be boring if everybody was sharing the same opinion.

I will go further, i am still in contact with the FSU world, i was in february, summer 2017 in Ukraine, in summer 2018 and november 2018 (sort of VO for a girl from a little city, came from some friends of me, the father of the daughter on ex wifey  :P :P :P )
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 15, 2019, 04:59:32 AM
Ex wife started do mess our marriage in november 2016 and left in december 2017 our home.

I stopped anything physical wiht my ex wife in may 2017.
During the summer 2017 i had to hire an interpreter in Ukraine to inform the father of ex wife's daughter that our marriage was burnt and to find if necessary some decisions about this topic. Additionnaly i wanted to have some russian lessons (with the language), but it seems that there was also some attraction not only for the words.   :P .
She is in her mid fourties and an 8 for her age at least. We hold hands nothing more and we are still in contact.
She talked three times of marriage since summer 2017 but this is now what i do with this s....  :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

Except this slight contact i was not in the mood to rush in any other woman and never cheated to my ex wife.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 15, 2019, 05:11:50 AM
The evening ex wife left end of december 2017 i invited two buddies, cooked for them, opened a bottle of champaign and we had good time.
I spend weeks alone watching movies evening after evening in the beginning of 2018.


It didn't mean that i was not hanging out but i had no real tremendous joy to do it. I signed for a serious meeting internet site but i did the mistake to record my real age. As this stupid site don't allow you to choose profiles, he gives  me a bunch of ladies between my age minus 7 and plus 7. Of course as you guess a lot are ugly, and half at least are overweighted like 1m61 and 63kg. Half have the military haircut. So lets say that i am relunctant to have some meetings. In 14 months i had few in the behalf of this site.

The first one was a nice blond in her fourties and the meeting was great and she seemed interested, did i overplayed some things i wrote in one sms (calibration problem ?), or was she flimsy? I would never know
The second one was an asiat and we decided to setup a second appointment. She felted asleep on the sofa and missed the rendez vous  ::) :D . As she was not active te reset an other appointment i let it go.


Apart this i have some personal relations with whom i some time hang out in places wher people go.

THe main problem was that the anger i had because of my divorce. That's a real game breaker which sweats and f.... your pickups.
However i had one evening great glances of a lady in her fourties and quickly printed her signs of interest. I therefore asked her phone number, i got the first phone number of my new life. My first phone close (FC).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 15, 2019, 08:44:52 AM
The second rendez-vous was setup and we want to the restaurant. I arrived in motorbike and had good time.
I proposed a ballad not so far from the river (i have a degree in river's ballads  :P , see first pages of this topic lol)
I hold her hand and lead her and when back at her car kissed her.
Re kissed her to let her know that was not an accident  :welcome:

Finally i let her go.

First kiss close of my new life (KC)
 :flowers:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on March 15, 2019, 09:20:37 PM
The second rendez-vous was setup and we want to the restaurant. I arrived in motorbike and had good time.
I proposed a ballad not so far from the river (i have a degree in river's ballads  :P , see first pages of this topic lol)
I hold her hand and lead her and when back at her car kissed her.
Re kissed her to let her know that was not an accident  :welcome:

Finally i let her go.

First kiss close of my new life (KC)
 :flowers:

Sounds great; keep up the good work !!

Be sure to fasten your condom and wear your seat belt;  Or maybe the other way around !!

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 19, 2019, 04:20:09 AM
Sounds great; keep up the good work !!

Be sure to fasten your condom and wear your seat belt;  Or maybe the other way around !!
Thank ML
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 19, 2019, 04:59:43 AM
The day after we had a long conversation with this woman. And, as i was on a penpal site for outings for a long time, she started to come along this one. She asked me when i was registered, when i was married, when i met my ex wife. I honestly answered to those questions (my fault  :cluebat: ,the nice guy honestly answering to twisted questions). She finally started to make some hints like why were you having some outings while married, in fact the hint was simply i was betraying my marriage.

The day after all this s.... came back in my mind and i realized that if i had said or done such thing to a woman she would have slap my face, or turn off her mobile phone for ever.

How is it possible to hint to someone you don't know that he had betrayed his spouse ?  :deadhorse:
Therefore i send her a last sms : "i didn't really tasted the morality inquiry yesterday and i found unacceptable the hints you dropped about my unfaithfulness during my marriage. So we will stop here".

I came across her several times in parties and she was barely stalking me. She even one time came in front of me to make my opinion changed.

Women have this incredible talent to believe that whatever bad they do they can overcome it by changing and manipulating men's heads. They think that they are entitled to be forgiven automatically because they are women and they have a special immunity accordingly to the gender.
This is named irresponsability.

I am in favor of shared equality and i work on it as you can see.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on March 19, 2019, 05:14:02 AM
It is not only FSU W who have such opinions.

Some male members ..who should know better...criticised me for daring to date while still legally married.  :deadhorse:

That my wife refused to divorce and I couldn't divorce her AND I explained the situation in advance to any potential date seemed to be irrelevant))





Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 19, 2019, 05:23:42 AM
It is not only FSU W who have such opinions.

Some male members ..who should know better...criticised me for daring to date while still legally married.  :deadhorse:

That my wife refused to divorce and I couldn't divorce her AND I explained the situation in advance to any potential date seemed to be irrelevant))

That's the perversion of the western system, the court is not capable to force the divorce while one of the spouse (for various reasons) try to trap his partner.

And
As in FSU you divorce very quickly for what i know
 it becomes a big disadvantage in the dating FSU world if you are a western guy not divorced because a lot of FSU women believe that you try to cheat on them. So you have a real disadvantage and some moral pressure.
I consider that you are the only one to perfectly know where you want to go whatever is the "potential relationship(s)" you want.

I wrote relationship with an s because human time could be shared between serious and non serious relationships, and it works for both sex.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on March 19, 2019, 09:01:15 AM
Everybody knows that marriage are at risk now. Mine is over and i got divorced.
But i am fine now and all is over.

I think many followed the thread here and now know how flexible i am. So i have almost rebounded.
Don't get me wrong flexible doesn't mean shallow. I loved my wife (ex), i never cheated on her and did my best for my family.

That's a bummer Pat and I'm sorry to hear that. C'est la vie. You've always struck me as very methodical and cautious. Also one of the good guys, level headed and doled out good advice to the newbies. Your situation is proof it can happen to anyone and does. Most all couples I have known personally in the East/West marriages have failed. Most of those seemed well intentioned. Pin your ears back friend. There's something good for you yet to happen that wouldn't have if that marriage didn't go tits up
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 20, 2019, 03:35:04 PM
That's a bummer Pat and I'm sorry to hear that. C'est la vie. You've always struck me as very methodical and cautious. Also one of the good guys, level headed and doled out good advice to the newbies. Your situation is proof it can happen to anyone and does. Most all couples I have known personally in the East/West marriages have failed. Most of those seemed well intentioned. Pin your ears back friend. There's something good for you yet to happen that wouldn't have if that marriage didn't go tits up
Your kindness has moved me.
I am happy to see your post.
It could have been for an other concern, but that's life  :P Yes we choose each other and had a real four years and half of love. Not so bad, good, very good experience. Ex wifey was really among the very few most important women of my life.

My divorce was also methodical and cautious  :D . So i succeed in my marriage and in my divorce  8)
No seriously, y i protected and saved myself from the very first days of the rout with the same mindset.

Wish you the best Faux Pas.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 26, 2019, 04:24:46 AM
I will not display two or three other dates i had but want to relate this one.
It started from a dating site.

Before the rendez vous it started with sms:
Pat : i call you in 30 mn, will you be ready, made up, showed, dressed up :D ?
Her : Not ready because i am still in my garden :P , but available on the phone  :D
Pat : i don't know if i will call you so...Her : i am gonna to make you listen birds
So we had an entertaining conversationLate in the evening :
Her : Thank you for this dialogue good evening Pat *flower*Pat : You have a very pleasant voice, you are unquestionably very amazing as suprem leader.
We met in a busy avenue and we like each other physically, she wanted to pay to the bar. We did one and an other one (changing of location, climbing the ladder).
She was  smart, brunette, with very large breasts, sensitive, white collar.
But quite busy with her job and three young children.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 26, 2019, 04:33:23 AM
In the next exchanges we will see how is it possible to sexualise the speech, the most difficult is to stay in the limits, this is the art of calibration, but unfortunately there are no rules.

European girls and especially french ones are very sensitive to the speech (they like to talk, they like the talking, and many focus on the bla bla). I think that they have too much intellectualized the process rather than to live it and to enjoy what their senses tell them.

THis something IMHO which draws a distinction between WW and FSU women (this is not the only one  kaneschna)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on March 26, 2019, 04:39:20 AM

THis something IMHO which draws a distinction between WW and FSU women (this is not the only one  kaneschna)

I can't agree...  But they do say the Irish can charm the pants off ye ....  ;)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on March 26, 2019, 08:29:43 PM
Pat, good results can come from sexual talk at some point in time. 
But you are right, the trick is in the timing. 
If you toss out a hint, and she follows up with something more aggressive, then you  are both 'on the way.'

However, we both know that there are some women who would be turned off by any sexual joke or hint . . . and yet at the right time become very sexual and even aggressive.

We never exactly know which way things will go . . . but then, neither do the women.

- - - - -

I just remembered one time when I told a mild sexual joke or said something sexual.
The woman told me that I shouldn't talk like that.
I thought all was lost, but we were on a boat ride and had to last it out anyway, so I just laughed and said: Why not?

She said: Because I get excited very easily, and don't want to get excited if nothing is going to happen.

I said: Don't worry, something will happen.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 27, 2019, 03:43:02 AM
I just remembered one time when I told a mild sexual joke or said something sexual.
The woman told me that I shouldn't talk like that.
I thought all was lost, but we were on a boat ride and had to last it out anyway, so I just laughed and said: Why not?

She said: Because I get excited very easily, and don't want to get excited if nothing is going to happen.

I said: Don't worry, something will happen.
:thumbsup:
You are clearly a winner ML.

Women could surprise you every time, but not in the way you could expect.
Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 09, 2019, 02:48:10 AM
After the appointment i sent her a sms :
At home? It was great. Now we need to set up the second meeting. Planting onions in the garden? Crocodile swamp trip? Slows songs compilation from New Orleans? By the way do you know how to dance rock and slows?

Her : Hi Pat, have a great day, it's cold!
Her : Hi Pat sorry to be silent, just very busy. I ask myself of how to connect or not our two personnalities?

Pat : "her name" good night (name that i find very elegant), you know what would be very cool? We could walk for a while with a packed lunch in the wild, with a thermos flask of coffee and some chocolate or a bottle of champaign. I will whisper you some fairytale in your ear (but without biting it) et you will curl against me because of the cold. Will be around sunday or monday. Pat
Her : i am wild, not easy to approach and not available before next wednesday because of my children (smile).
--> so we see here some difference between the fsu and western dating. An FSU will never raise such fences except the famous "i am shy" which means that she takes you for a ride or you have gone too fast.
Here the most important is : she wants a second meeting.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on April 09, 2019, 11:47:25 AM
Good start Pat.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 09, 2019, 03:32:06 PM
Good start Pat.
Happy you are back
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 12, 2019, 04:22:01 AM
Pat : My father got back from Africa a special rifle that sent hypodermic arrows for lions, leopard ...
I think i need to take it for our next appointment. After i will remove your trouser and spank "put her very nice name" if you continue -smiley-
One day after, Pat : may we call each other 10 minutes?
One minute after : yes -flower-
Pat : late in the evening. I liked to talk with you, you have a very pleasant voice
Her : Me too. Hope your running trip .... and blabla. I call be available friday or monday, it's up to you to tell me -smiley- -flower-

So things are going well, she lets me know her schedule and even to choose my day  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on April 12, 2019, 08:17:19 AM
Pat, you let your English be a little garbled here, so hard to know exactly what you said.

They say that blood leaves the brain and goes to penis, so maybe . . . .

But seems it worked fine when you spoke of it in French to her !!  :-))
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 12, 2019, 02:54:00 PM
Pat, you let your English be a little garbled here, so hard to know exactly what you said.

They say that blood leaves the brain and goes to penis, so maybe . . . .

But seems it worked fine when you spoke of it in French to her !!  :-))
Oh ML i think that you are in the wrong topic, i dropped such a sentence but not in this trip report it was in :
Being a gentleman or a chump? (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=23615.msg507998;topicseen#msg507998)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 13, 2019, 08:17:33 AM
few messages and :
Her : hello today my birthday, have a good day.Pat : your birthday? You have hidden this to me. Kisses, have a nice day too, i've just dropped a message on your mobile.
Pat : i am preparing your birthday for our rendez-vous friday evening. Do you trust me or do we have to setup a shared liability company? If you feel too shy, we can just go to eat a cheese-burger....
MEMOS : i was planning to invite her in a very nice restaurant, crazy sightview by night, forest around, top on a hill, and a little gift for her birthday, nothing expansive but a little gift.
Her : it's very kind. I would like to close my eyes et follow you ... but we just know each other, i am a little lost, have some trouble to find my place. I would like to simply knowing you. And you what are you waiting from this evening?
Pat : learn to know you, to live, to laugh, help you to find your place. You have to know to give, you have to know to receive, even if you feel more vulnerable sometime. You are afraid to receive? Life is what is unexpected and i want you to share itHer : not used to receive and let it go. A litttle cautious of someone almost unknownPat : it seems that you make a relapse now lolHer : need to trustPat : trust has to etablished over time and i am not an easy man.Her : lolPat : it was written in my profile. Take a pill and try to sleep nowHer : I am working, after i will go to sleep.Pat : If you don't wear right now your little pyjamas et don't drop yourself in the sheets and  i would have to come with the big rifle from Africa, do you remember?
Her : lol i keep myself back from you. Promised, i stop to work, good night!Pat: time to sleep!Her: good night
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 18, 2019, 03:32:21 PM
Her : Thank you. Hope to be tomorrow
I invited her in a beautiful restaurant, modern cooking, bring a little present for her birthday. After i bring her to see the night sighview of the big city.
Then we walked around, mainly on the top of the hill, searching our way in the night, hand to hand along some houses sometimes sitting or strecthing out in the grass.
She relied on me sometimes as it was barely impossible to see the ground.
I kissed her and she kissed me at the end.
I bring her back to her car later in the night, it was a half hour time more spent together.

SHe sent : Back. Thank you again for this evening, you are a real gentleman. Flower Smile Smile
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 19, 2019, 02:27:45 PM
One point need to be made :

Offering a gift and diner for a woman in Europe who have met you one hour and hald is SCARY.
Especially if it's for her birthday.

You want of course to work in the opposite direction.
It's why you need to bring some lightness in the relationship. It's like a push and pull.

So before the diner i told her if you prefer, rather this diner, who can go to grab two cheeseburgers (which is an insane offer in the french culture)
After she agreed, i wrote her : all is fine "name of the lady", i cancellled the two cheeseburgers i ordered in Amazone and succeed to resell them to some boat people in a post office.

Of course she found this hilarious, you bring some lightness and make all this stuff fun. PushAnd you also in NPL bring an anchor around the word "cheeseburgers". Some if you work again on this word you can make it total legend in a real history like "baby i would like invite you to eat a cheeseburger", that's become therefore a keyword of your story.
You could think that's Pat's blabla but women are into this type of.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 19, 2019, 02:34:43 PM
The fault is to not put sexual tense in the communication (something if forgot to play in my date of today, an other story for an other day).

So after ou diner and kissing she wrote me :
her : i had been seek and my blood pressure today was very low. I am outme : You should have kiss me less intensively friday. You see you are very tired now.

her : smile, lol, flower
Pat : if we have to sleep together, maybe i have to ask a medical certificate no?

Her : (she is compliant and plays the game) be careful i am surely very seek and that's very contagious
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 19, 2019, 02:46:21 PM
So to close this story we had a third meeting.
It was a friday and we had voth worked all the week.
She also brake a mirror on her car just before coming.
During all the meeting she was cold, distant, no kissing.
And few time before the end she said "i am not in love".

So it was just before my travel in Thailand. I purely stopped to communicate with her. I respect, no problem. If she don't like me or don't have real feelings no problem i am not upset.
I have a very good opinion of her. Smart, interesting, sportive, generous woman.

She sent two messages to which i didn't reply.

Finally few months after, as i relocated close to where she was living. I was new in this aera and i thaught that she could be a good friend, so i contacted her.
Note : many guys when they tell you such thing are dishonest, they will think in fact to try to hit them a second time. NOT my purpose.

So i told her what i write above. She seemed surprised and a little upset. She told me that she had met a man recently and that she was highly involved with him. I told her that i was happy for her. She refused to see me but would be happy to say hi if we bump into each other due to our proximity.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on June 19, 2019, 11:50:27 PM
Thank you, Pat...

You do not want to get 'seek' via a woman you will never be with...

Getting the medical certificate together can be fun ...

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 12, 2019, 10:21:35 PM
Hi Guys,
Actually in Dnipro and monday in Kiev for few days. Feel free to contact me if you are there, will be happy to do my best to meet you. My temporary ukrainian number +380976102508
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on July 12, 2019, 10:43:15 PM
My temporary ukrainian number +380976102508


I'd call but you're married! Have fun and post some pics when you get back.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 13, 2019, 02:31:12 AM
I'd call but you're married! Have fun and post some pics when you get back.
Hi Billy, you can call me if you are in (zythomir ?).I have a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 13, 2019, 09:25:20 AM
if you have a car and some time
head south from Dnipro to Zaporozhia to the "resevoir"
NICE!!!

look for the large outdoor "flea markets"
they're always worth a look
be prepared to haggle
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 14, 2019, 03:35:26 AM
Krim thank you for the proposition, i doubt that i will have enough time because i leave tomorrow very early morning
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on July 14, 2019, 08:24:51 AM
Hi Billy, you can call me if you are in (zythomir ?).I have a lot of fun.

 I've got too much work to do to before I can take a vacation. You're going to have to have fun without me. :(
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 15, 2019, 10:19:32 AM
Zaporizhia is south of Kyiv and is a very dirty industrial town of around 3/4 million people
Zhytomyr is west of Kyiv and a fairly clean university town of around 1/4 million people with large dairy processing facility.

Not sure which place Pat was talking about possibly visiting.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on July 15, 2019, 02:13:56 PM
Zaporizhia is south of Kyiv and is a very dirty industrial town of around 3/4 million people
Zhytomyr is west of Kyiv and a fairly clean university town of around 1/4 million people with large dairy processing facility.

Not sure which place Pat was talking about possibly visiting.

I do not  remember anything redeeming about Zaptown.   The highlight of the trip was walk on the hydroelectric dam.  The Cossack area perhaps could have been interesting except it rained.   The longest, straightest, and ugliest main avenue in any city I visited in the FSU.  To this add the not so faint odors of factory emissions, causing me concern about what I could be breathing.   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 15, 2019, 02:20:36 PM
you were at the dam but didn't go to the Khortytsia reserve?
the whole Dnepr watershed is AMAZING one of the best river systems in the world IMHO...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on July 15, 2019, 02:27:59 PM
you were at the dam but didn't go to the Khortytsia reserve?
the whole Dnepr watershed is AMAZING one of the best river systems in the world IMHO...

That is what I referred to as the Cossack Island.  Impressive, but not even Central Park or Stanley Park is much fun in the rain.

The Zap UW with me was one of my worse dating experiences.  I am sure she said the same about me. She snored louder than any man (evidently the result of a bad auto accident many years ago).   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 15, 2019, 02:39:40 PM
it would totally suck being there in the rain (and mud!)
but spectacular on a warm sunny day...

the Dnepr waterways are just amazing
too bad it's such a hassle owning a boat in Ukraine


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on July 15, 2019, 07:28:31 PM
the Dnepr waterways are just amazing
too bad it's such a hassle owning a boat in Ukraine

When in Dnipro (the new name, and much easier to pronounce), I walked to the river 2-3 times.  The string of dams have made the river wide and slow, perfect  for barges of coal and sand as expected.  Unexpected were the passenger boats, resembling passenger traffic on the Congo, except people are white and not sardined.   

In the late afternoon I watched a couple of passenger ferries returning weary citizens who had harvested their gardens at dachas up and down the river.  I laughingly equated it to watching the fishing boats in America return from the sea to their harbors.  Instead of catches of mahimahi, tuna, blues or the rare huge marlin laid out on the dock,  it was a parade of Slavs carrying bags of potatoes, buckets of tomatoes, a monster cabbage, and baskets of fruits.   Evidently these citizens of Dnipro did not need or could not afford a car, following  tradition from the steamship era.    It was certainly a scene uncommon to America.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 16, 2019, 12:28:30 AM
Zaporizhia is south of Kyiv and is a very dirty industrial town of around 3/4 million people
Zhytomyr is west of Kyiv and a fairly clean university town of around 1/4 million people with large dairy processing facility.

Not sure which place Pat was talking about possibly visiting.
I believe that Zhytomir is the city of Billy's wife it's why i was writing about this city
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 16, 2019, 12:31:19 AM
Zaporizhia is south of Kyiv and is a very dirty industrial town of around 3/4 million people
Zhytomyr is west of Kyiv and a fairly clean university town of around 1/4 million people with large dairy processing facility.

Not sure which place Pat was talking about possibly visiting.
Zapo is not only a dirty industrial city but there are four nuclear reactors nearby.
Exactly the type of reactors that could make a Tchernobyl V2.0This is one of my fear for the country
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 16, 2019, 05:57:43 AM
Zaporizhia NPP has SIX reactors!!!

six reactors all in a row...
PLUS spent fuel processing...

wind currents are circular there
heads North and to the East

if I were Ukraine, I would "mine" each reactor
and spent fuel processing

and let Russia know...

Mutually Assured Destruction with 6+ Chernobil's going off at once
in case of invasion

maybe they're only bluffing
or maybe not...

they're the only nuclear weapons Ukraine has to use as a deterrent


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 16, 2019, 06:53:43 AM
When in Dnipro (the new name, and much easier to pronounce), I walked to the river 2-3 times.

Loved the beautiful walkway along the river.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 16, 2019, 02:46:45 PM
Loved the beautiful walkway along the river.
I ran there saturday, and a AN2 dropped six paratroopers who landed in the Dniepr. I probably had some photos.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on July 18, 2019, 02:09:45 AM
I ran there saturday, and a AN2 dropped six paratroopers who landed in the Dniepr. I probably had some photos.

May be an AN-26?

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-26#/media/File:An-26_Ni%C2%B5_Nishava_Serbien_Marko_Stojkovic_IMG_2634-1-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 18, 2019, 05:49:19 AM
May be an AN-26?

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-26#/media/File:An-26_Ni%C2%B5_Nishava_Serbien_Marko_Stojkovic_IMG_2634-1-2.jpg)
Hi MSB
It was definitively an AN2. A biplane with one motor in front. This type is very popular to drop paratroopers. It allows a very low speed, which is exactly what is wanted for the purpose.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on July 18, 2019, 10:49:47 AM
Hi MSB
It was definitively an AN2. A biplane with one motor in front. This type is very popular to drop paratroopers. It allows a very low speed, which is exactly what is wanted for the purpose.

I bow to your insistence and clear expertise ... Never heard of an An-2  Thanks for educating me !

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 18, 2019, 12:20:35 PM
I bow to your insistence and clear expertise ... Never heard of an An-2  Thanks for educating me !

Msb, if you have time go to Kiev to the aviation museum. They have an amazing collection of USSR planes. I will post a photo here of tha AN2. It's quite a popular plane there. The A26 is two motors, faster, an airliner.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on July 18, 2019, 12:37:21 PM
A -

You keep saying you're gonna post a pic of an AN-2.   Get on with it, already!  LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV4dk5cYRf0
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 19, 2019, 03:29:39 AM
AN2 on the Dnep(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13384.0;attach=37377;image)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 19, 2019, 03:31:21 AM
Paratroopers
(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13384.0;attach=37379;image) (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13384.0;attach=37379;image)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 25, 2019, 07:00:30 AM
let start a little game :

Except the first hilaring 3.40 first minutes :
Try to find out when (timeline) the women find the speaker attractive :

Non verbal language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ns0CeBhxXs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ns0CeBhxXs)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on October 25, 2019, 09:21:54 PM
Very interesting Pat.
 
Actually, we all pretty much know the answers the gals will give regarding maximum age difference;
but we just don't care !!  :-))

Because our situation is the 1 out of million that will be successful.

Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on October 27, 2019, 06:32:39 AM
The answer from the lady at 5:10 said it all.

Yet we have some contributors who have child brides that speak of excuses why they are not in photos together..
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on October 27, 2019, 03:02:37 PM
Pat - this thread needs an update if you're playing funny games on Tinder.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 28, 2019, 08:07:12 AM
So in fact it's possible to "spoof" Badoo.
That's a naturel option in Tinder but i have the improved version. So you can set up the location you want or use the current one
In Badoo this is a little more work. First you have to remove in parameters the possibilité for Badoo to use the localisation and after you setup one in Badoo application, the one you wish.

So i will make a try.
The strategy, being 10 days prior my departure is to stock a maximum of like and setup some rendez vous and calls 48 or 72 hours maximum my flight.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 28, 2019, 08:23:01 AM
I am in the feeling that's a lot of girls are going to avoid you like the plague if you are NOT in the surrounding.

I just give you my feeling. I think tons of guys all over the world are lurking for a total of milliard of hours the most beautiful women pictures available. Guess what FSU is one of the biggest provider.

Therefore i do believe that some girls are flooded now. Fifteen years ago that was already the case to some of my close female friends, ranking between 7 and 8. After two weeks their dating site mailbox was full with the local biggest dating site available at this time.

So ... 15 years after with the booming internet and everyone, even the poorest having a smartphone....


Just want to relate the very last experience i had (yesterday lol)

My top list girl in Kiev 39 years old, we started a nice chat, both agreed to call each other prior my venue. I was located, through Tinder, in Kiev. But to communicate i had to give my french number to go to Viber/Whatsapp. SHe wanted to call me but i had an event and asked to postpone. Not only i didn't heard about her anymore but she removed me from the matches and the whole converstation has disappeared. Just hope that she didn't make things worse by reporting to the site administration a claim. That's would be very strange considering that i had a respectful language and no stupid proposition.
I started the whole conversation in russian and my last message was in full french as she herself speaks the language and what she wrote in french lets me believe she was good at it.

I think that the right thing to do is to setup a female profile in Kiev with nice photos of a random girl to get a clear idea of how a nice ukrainian women in her 39 could be flooded
That's could be a cool idea. Sometime you learn a lot by reversing the cards.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on October 28, 2019, 01:20:17 PM
Quote
Just want to relate the very last experience i had (yesterday lol) 

Splendid to read you are still hunting!!!  This one got away, and could reappear down the trail.  There are  a million others. 


 :applause:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on October 28, 2019, 02:15:17 PM
I am in the feeling that's a lot of girls are going to avoid you like the plague if you are NOT in the surrounding.
...
Just want to relate the very last experience i had (yesterday lol)

My top list girl in Kiev 39 years old, we started a nice chat, both agreed to call each other prior my venue. I was located, through Tinder, in Kiev. But to communicate i had to give my french number to go to Viber/Whatsapp. SHe wanted to call me but i had an event and asked to postpone. Not only i didn't heard about her anymore but she removed me from the matches and the whole converstation has disappeared.
Easy problem to solve. Get a Ukrainian SIM card. Set up a regular payment so it does not expire. Use Whatsapp or Viber to communicate.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 28, 2019, 03:13:54 PM
Easy problem to solve. Get a Ukrainian SIM card. Set up a regular payment so it does not expire. Use Whatsapp or Viber to communicate.
Yes i have a sim card from my last travel and also several phones, but had always be too lazy to put credit by myself lol.
Need to take care about this maybe.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 28, 2019, 03:32:59 PM
Splendid to read you are still hunting!!!  This one got away, and could reappear down the trail.  There are  a million others. 


 :applaud:
Please to read you Gator.

Cannot complaint since ex wifey left the house.
I invited two friends the day after and opened a bottle champaign.Since then i need to be alone and watched movie after movie few months
I have chased locally kissed some had two gf, one mistress
but also went four times in one year to Ukraine, don't even know the total trips i have done  now, more than 20 for sure.
THere i had had one gf, a mistress, and some relatives introduces me to a young lady 33 maybe with whom i spent several day afterhaving met her during a previous trip. Finally as nothing was moving in a real physical direction, i cleaned up the case.

I have actually a quite strong contact in a second city and  also two maybe backups in the same city, not considering all the women who have previously engaded some messages with me.

So the world is vast.
I met a journalist also in Kiev that i wanted to keep friend, but you know slavic women ... a single one will generally consider
that she has better to use her time to chase other males.
One of my two russian teachers lives in Kiev so we meet sometimes and that's cool. Russian language is clearly a key. I can talk 10 minutes now by myself. What i say is probably awful for a native speaker, but women get what i want to say.

I like Kiev for the vivid life and enjoy the cultural side of this city. So i am gonna to probably book for a spectacle before i go.
I like especially to run around in all the parks behing the cathedral along the Dnepr, go down, cross the pedestrian bridge and go to the island and return to the flat, last time located close to Maidan.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 28, 2019, 06:28:34 PM
I am in the feeling that's a lot of girls are going to avoid you like the plague if you are NOT in the surrounding.

I just give you my feeling. I think tons of guys all over the world are lurking for a total of milliard of hours the most beautiful women pictures available. Guess what FSU is one of the biggest provider.

Therefore i do believe that some girls are flooded now. Fifteen years ago that was already the case to some of my close female friends, ranking between 7 and 8. After two weeks their dating site mailbox was full with the local biggest dating site available at this time.

So ... 15 years after with the booming internet and everyone, even the poorest having a smartphone....


Just want to relate the very last experience i had (yesterday lol)

My top list girl in Kiev 39 years old, we started a nice chat, both agreed to call each other prior my venue. I was located, through Tinder, in Kiev. But to communicate i had to give my french number to go to Viber/Whatsapp. SHe wanted to call me but i had an event and asked to postpone. Not only i didn't heard about her anymore but she removed me from the matches and the whole converstation has disappeared. Just hope that she didn't make things worse by reporting to the site administration a claim. That's would be very strange considering that i had a respectful language and no stupid proposition.
I started the whole conversation in russian and my last message was in full french as she herself speaks the language and what she wrote in french lets me believe she was good at it.

I think that the right thing to do is to setup a female profile in Kiev with nice photos of a random girl to get a clear idea of how a nice ukrainian women in her 39 could be flooded
That's could be a cool idea. Sometime you learn a lot by reversing the cards.

I think you're right Pat, being there is probably becoming key these days. The dating game can move on and women don't want to yada, yada with some guy that may turn out to be an Internet Romeo.

I think Kiev is a tough get, I got that impression a lot this summer when I was there. I knew it would be practically pointless for me. I might have got some traction with one of the young girls in McDonald's just a block off or so from Shevchenko Park if I tried my luck but I felt they were too young for me. A good place to go though I think if you're looking for a down to earth sort of girl and that McD's is about the only one I have seen in the city that is not usually totally packed out.

If I were you I would try the smaller provincial cities, far easier there I think. Even if you got a place in Kiev you could get the girl to come in by train as its cheap enough. A lot less competition out in the provincial cities and the girls are more eager and less spoilt by choice they would have in Kiev.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on October 28, 2019, 08:49:29 PM

If I were you I would try the smaller provincial cities, far easier there I think.
Even if you got a place in Kiev you could get the girl to come in by train as its cheap enough.

I didn't have any luck with this 'bused in or trained in' approach.
The gals arrive very tired and are still tired the next day.
By the time they are fully recovered; it's time for them to head back to their city.
Also, if it appears within a few minutes that the two of you are totally incompatible . . .
you are still stuck with her (if you are a gentleman) for 2-4 days.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 29, 2019, 04:52:37 AM
I didn't have any luck with this 'bused in or trained in' approach.
The gals arrive very tired and are still tired the next day.
By the time they are fully recovered; it's time for them to head back to their city.
Also, if it appears within a few minutes that the two of you are totally incompatible . . .
you are still stuck with her (if you are a gentleman) for 2-4 days.

True, I meant more for if Pat found a permanent girl in a provincial city as he doesn't like the extra journeying and he likes the vibrancy of Kiev. If the relationship later fell through then he could do the same with another provincial girl whereas if he stumped for buying a pad in a provincial city the next girl might come from a different provincial city many miles away and he could be stuck with a place he would then find useless.

Apparently many Ukrainian girls like to travel and interact on train journeys. I found one that didn't but managed to persuade her to travel to me by pointing out that I had already undertaken a big journey of driving to the airport, getting on a plane then taxi to the hotel, a journey of thousands of miles. Put like that she could see the logic of travelling to me. In the end though I decided to travel to her as I was intrigued to find out what this 'Nikolaev' was like.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 29, 2019, 05:18:29 AM
ML has a good point.Each time you let come an unknow woman you take the risk to screw up your time if no match (80% of time). In the best case smart people become good friends and move to have good time by making tourism.THe worst case is if the guy likes the woman, has fantasize on her but she dislikes him. Many guys couldn't get that she is disinterested due too many factors (cultural ukrainian politeness, lack of women  knowledge, balls too heavy in the pants) i takdalé. And so the situation is a mess and the guy starts to be rude.

Yes some women could understand that you have already accomplished a great journey and make the effort. It's only possible if you have raised enough traction in the relationship to a point that she considers you worthly enough to go. They don't have a lot of vacation, in legal job they have some but sometimes the boss don't want to let them go, for them it's not always easy i mean.
What i mean is that to get a girl ready to come to your city you have to invest already time and emotion, and that's not what you want.

THe last thing about asking them to come is that you will find a wagon of girls interested to make tourism, good restaurant, for free. SOme could even join pay you in sex if they don't dislike you, but this is not serious and you will go nowhere if your quest is to find a real match.In addition, for a first meeting, you loose a lot of important informations if you date her in an other city. Some girls could perfectly plays double game or be paid for the travel but consider this is worth to go because they have some relatives there and so on.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 31, 2019, 02:39:13 AM
For the moment i am facing a new challenge.
Which is when exactly start to contact girls.
Knowing that i am at J-7 before departure.

This damned Tinder has stalled and now also Badoo. My age starts to fight against me.
As Trench was saying there are some group age that are etablishing some psychological fence.
It was already like this in the local dating a decade ago.
A lot of people would lie about their age of two or three years, just to stay below the 40, 39 maximum exactly.

I am physically great, even athletic and had recently GF minus 19, minus 17, minus 11, minus 10, and minus 6. None of those women could follow me in many things. In general i perform better in a meeting than in internet.

So now i have to work on the pool i have etablished on both sites. It will be a mess at the end because you have to contact five girls at least to have anappointment for the considered evening.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 31, 2019, 02:43:10 AM
I found out my previous ukrainian sim card  :D And could put some credit on it, it's very easy.
A lot of ukrainian sites are really well programmed.
So now i have a +380
Which i will also use in my country as a buffer mobile phone for all the dirty advertising.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 31, 2019, 04:11:51 AM
So now i am making a list, the Tinder one to prepare some "hook" message.
One of the trap is after a while you don't know if the girl is from the city you are aiming for.
Rather than to start a stupid communication and mislead the ladies it's better to sort out who you have to let apart.
Fortunately the mileage between you and her is indicated.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 31, 2019, 10:04:50 AM
I have also did the same with Badoo, which works a little differently.
The main advantage is that you know if the ladies are still active or dead.By the way a lot of sites brag having 10 millions of subscribers but in fact 5 are dead.
So of course i start by the top list generally, the ones you really want to see. But not only.
That's also a travel and i have always found interesting to meet new people and go without any pressure or expectation.If they are open and interesting and have the same way of thinking it could be fun.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 31, 2019, 02:23:34 PM
I have also did the same with Badoo, which works a little differently.
The main advantage is that you know if the ladies are still active or dead.By the way a lot of sites brag having 10 millions of subscribers but in fact 5 are dead.
So of course i start by the top list generally, the ones you really want to see. But not only.

That's handy Pat, I've found that with most of the online International/FSU dating websites too. If it's a big city and/or website is one of the bigger websites it's generally not too bad. It's a shame that Mamba messed up their website as they used to have a lot of women with recent logins.

In a smaller city such as Lviv it doesn't take long before all of the girls are quickly gone through, about a week will probably do it. Not all reply so getting up girls isn't always easy. Then like you say Pat are the ones that have been dead a long time and 9 times out of 10 are a waste of time contacting or it takes them ages to get back to you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 01, 2019, 01:25:33 PM
In Kiev you have the advantage to have a continuous mainstream of ladies.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 01, 2019, 01:46:20 PM
In Kiev you have the advantage to have a continuous mainstream of ladies.

Also very strange in that city of 3-4 million folks . . .

Three times I was noticed by a gal I was spending some time with, when I was spending time with a second gal!!

One gal even walked up beside me, squeezed my elbow briefly, and then walked on without saying a word. 
Of course she refused my later invitation for another date.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 01, 2019, 01:51:20 PM
So fellows things are not so bad.
I have in city2 a lady that i have hooked two weeks ago. We daily exchange at least one message, except this week during few days
because she has changed of phone or whatever reason (i don't care). The communication happens only in russian.
I called her already twice so this is a solid hook.
I have no real certainty about her photos so we will see on spot.
Because the connection is quite high i have not reconnected with my ex mistress of the last summer, and the xorowaa blondinka that i met in july, who is not really interested in me, anyway. I just dropped a message to an other one who i really want to meet her from june. But i think her profile is dead.

In city 1 i had a contact through badoo in june with a nice lady of 39 but i had left the city before she contacted me back. So all is fine we have setup to go to the opera the evening i arrive in the city. All are going very smoothly and very easy. This what i like the most with FSU ladies. All could be done like a rocket.
To be honest i date her first "friendly", i mean she is not a target but who knows? We could be attracted to each other.
Two ladies on Tinder on my top list have been contacted but one of them removed the match lol, and the second maybe she has emigrated on Mars last year, who knows.I also contacted two ladies on Badoo, of top list. One still didn't read my message. And the second has answered, but i am really careful as i am afraid of to be victim of "an other keybord romeo, a liar who lets believe that he lives in the city". So simply when she gives you her phone number, like in any country that a good hook. She hasn't reply to my initiative to talk each other yet, we will see what happens.
On the top list i have a third one who have liked me, so i believe that this one could meet seriously me but the previous i wrote about had a better ranking.

As you see i am very picky and push each pawn very attentively.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 01, 2019, 06:04:14 PM
So now in city 1 situation starts to be complicated.

One of the two Badoo top list has answered.
She barely wrote, i would meet you maybe, but convince me by explaining me why ukrainian girls.
That's normal, quite usual. That's in their blood, they are suspicious.
Please note that except the one i met just after my landing, none are speaking english (or supposed to).

So how i am going to get through this first salvo of Atoll missile?
I will start by writing you know westerners usually answer that FSU women are more feminine and american women are not family oriented andbla bla.... может бить
In fact i had lived in civilisation A during my first 20 years of life. And last decade of my life happens in your. I am used to your culture, i like Ukraine,I like the culture and i have more and more personal history here. I found the mix an incredible source of joy and a shared personal enrichment even if sometimes it's more eggy due to the misunderstanding.


So technically it starts to be complicated because you have 3 days and half and if all is fine 3 ladies to see. THe logic is she likes you and you like her you reset a second date. Second date are going to bump into a second or first date of an other lady. Therefore you loose her interest and very likely the girl.
You need to have a military thinking about how to manage the time in city1. You will have very likely some losses, and sometimes you will have to make some kill yourself, the goal is to save a maximum of life, or to save the president, the lady the most important;But you don't know who will the president of ths short trip. considering that first you have to see all the contenders.
ANd eve a first meeting with someone don't necessary give the certainty that SHE is the president to save.

I smell them, i need to know how they move, how the talk, how they touch me, the depth of their eyes, the beauty of their shoes, the mathematical worl about their manucure To decide who will be the queen, the president.

i WOULD like to keep all of them, love all of them but that is not possible in the reality
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JayH on November 01, 2019, 06:41:14 PM
Also very strange in that city of 3-4 million folks . . .

Three times I was noticed by a gal I was spending some time with, when I was spending time with a second gal!!

One gal even walked up beside me, squeezed my elbow briefly, and then walked on without saying a word. 
Of course she refused my later invitation for another date.

It can happen easily enough !
Some years ago ( quite a few in fact !)   --in a period when in an off phase with my long term on/off  ex -- I met  with a girl who  gave me the whole agency run around plus terp deal to agree to meet  etc. Over the course of the afternoon in doing the normal run around the sucker deal  I heard her comments to the terp ( even back then I understood  a little Russian enough to get the gist of what she said) and it was enough to wise me up etc.
At the end of the afternoon she starting making excuses why she had to go  to family occasion  that evening so that was it for the day.
         I had already decided that was a done deal-- move on etc and had no intention of any follow up once the afternoon was over.So -- in the evening -back to the computer  and see what could be done at short notice --in a "I am here- can we meet now "  deal !
         So -- Katya says ok- can I bring a friend with me. So at  10pm we hook up in a popular well known cafe in the city .  No pretence meeting-lots of laughing and   good fun conversation without all the ridiculous agency BS of earlier. So-- in walks the girl from the afternoon meeting ! It unfolded that they went to the same  school and studied languages -- and both spoke excellent English .
        So-- girl one is unhappy with me big time and chews my ear off telling me -- I am bemused for all the obvious reasons. She wants to meet me next day -- but I tell her I have already arranged to meet Katya etc.
       So-  I agree to meet the following morning  and explain the obvious too her . She is amused that I went along with crazy agency deal despite knowing it was attempt to take me for a ride -- and that she had made it clear she was not interested in me by what she had said to terp ( as it turned out-- she was  also a school friend!) . She was very shocked that I understood   any of this .
      Later -- we became good friends and I used her to translate and interpret   for me ( & do chores)  . She is now married to a local guy and now have 2 children.  Katya -- eventually made her way to New York  and still lives there today. 

It was not the only time this sort of thing happened - so can relate to ML's experiences ! :)   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on November 01, 2019, 07:23:30 PM
French-Ukrainian Colonel Klink.  :P

You need to give yourself time for "recon", and have a schedule that doesn't involve dating. That way you get a nice cultural experience - philharmonic orchestras and the ballet/opera can be rather inexpensive in the FSU. If your language skills are good then other theatrical performances are worth checking out.

You may run into a lady at the theater too. I ended up chatting with a (male) surgeon the last time I went to the high-end theater in Russia.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 02, 2019, 02:08:49 PM
French-Ukrainian Colonel Klink.  :P

You need to give yourself time for "recon", and have a schedule that doesn't involve dating. That way you get a nice cultural experience - philharmonic orchestras and the ballet/opera can be rather inexpensive in the FSU. If your language skills are good then other theatrical performances are worth checking out.

You may run into a lady at the theater too. I ended up chatting with a (male) surgeon the last time I went to the high-end theater in Russia.
When i have spare time it's what i am going. I go for a walk, i explore the surroundings, go to the museum and now i am hitting social events. So in Kiev you have events every day.
I already have been to the concert and opera one time each.
I love it.
And women so i suppose.
Theater i will not go because the main problem is that ukrainian language is spreading vs russian language. And i learn russian not ukrainian.
Dating for me includes some reco.Last time in Dnepro i tried to find some club outside the city to spend the whole day, swimming and sunbathing, i was a little short in time to do it. But i did this already in Kharkov. At night a big dancing party is happening there.
I love to go and discover new things.
Last time in Dnipro we were in Bartolemo, one of the biggest club of Ukraine. We = me and a couple of friends.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 02, 2019, 02:17:24 PM
quote :
"One of the two Badoo top list has answered.
She barely wrote, i would meet you maybe, but convince me by explaining me why ukrainian girls.
That's normal, quite usual. That's in their blood, they are suspicious.
Please note that except the one i met just after my landing, none are speaking english (or supposed to).

So how i am going to get through this first salvo of Atoll missile?
I will start by writing you know westerners usually answer that FSU women are more feminine and american women are not family oriented andbla bla.... может бить
In fact i had lived in civilisation A during my first 20 years of life. And last decade of my life happens in your. I am used to your culture, i like Ukraine,I like the culture and i have more and more personal history here. I found the mix an incredible source of joy and a shared personal enrichment even if sometimes it's more eggy due to the misunderstanding."
So i wrote this and got the answer. I passed the test with flying colors.
And Это всеSo when you are a westener and you got something like "nice answer" you are normally bewildered.