Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Experienced => Topic started by: northkape on January 13, 2013, 05:57:45 PM

Title: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 13, 2013, 05:57:45 PM
I went looking the other day for Planet-Love, only to find that the russian part of it had been moved here.

Some might remember my nick from back then; Danneskjold Ragnar out of Norway. At least I remember Dan dating his Olya from Kremenchug at the same time I found my wife in a neighbor city. 

Here is how it all started:
(A copy of a trip report I posted at Planet-Love back in the year 1999)

Anyway, if you feel like it, take a seat and listen to my story about prostitution among MOB girls in St.Petersburg.

I lived together with a young stunningly beautiful girl from SPB part of the summer last year.

I knew from the look in her eyes, in less than an hour after meeting with her, that she probably had a professional career behind her, even though she had a high education and a good job. I didn't care too much about that at that time, since there were so many things that I liked about her. She was intelligent, classy and had great taste. As it was, I had one of the best summer months in my entire 44 year life, together with this fascinating 22 year old Amazon. I didn't ask her however, about the dark side of her history until the third time we met. This is what happened. Living together with her in her flat, she told me that I would have to be on my own the next evening as there was something she had to straighten out with her ex-boyfriend. There was no way for me to come along. Neither did I want to, as I knew from what she had told me earlier that he was a Mafia "business" man. I always enjoyed life on the dangerous side, but there is a line I don't want to cross. As I expected she didn't return home that night. But I did some thinking and then it all dawned to me. What a fool I was. From my experience and all the tell-tale signs, I knew she was lying to me, and that she was still working in the trade. She didn't go to see her ex-boyfriend. There was a customer so important for her that she risked breaking the relationship with me for him. I promptly moved out of her flat the very next morning. Later in the day she called my mobile phone and wondered why I had moved, and if I could come to meet with her so she could explain to me what had happened. I agreed upon meeting with her in her flat a couple of hours later, as I wanted her to admit to me what I already knew. I entered her flat only to meet her more beautiful than I had ever seen her. She had really done her homework with the makeup.  I told her to sit down, light a smoke and promise to keep her mouth shut for twenty minutes, as I was going to really crush her heart. I started telling her how easily I had been able to understand about her history and how and why I had known all the time. Even though I could see that it was very difficult for her to keep her promise about keeping her mouth shut, she did so till I was finished. By now the tears were ruining her makeup and she finally gave in and told me the truth about everything in her history, and about many of her beautiful girlfriends which I had met with. And what a history, I had been guessing correctly about almost everything. But she wouldn’t admit about the previous night. That was more of a defeat than she was able to take at the moment. And she knew of course that this was the final play, and that everything was coming to and end at this time. And from there on it was finished, even though I took her out for dinner one more evening before I left. The last time I spoke with her on the phone in November, she told me she was probably going to marry with an American man from Chicago that had visited her twice. But as she told me he wasn’t as clever as I had been, and she wouldn’t ever want to tell him the truth. She also has two of her girlfriends married in the USA. I can’t know for sure if everything she told me about prostitution among the young beautiful students was true or not, but a Swedish businessman that I met with verified her story. He had been living part time in SPB for the last seven years. Later this winter I had a girl from south of Moscow living at my home for a month. Occasionally she goes to hairdresser trade shows in SPB. And she told me also that as many as one out of three of the girls she has met with there and gone to parties together with, has been involved more or less with prostitution at some time in their history.

Just for the record, the three other girls I have met with in SPB have not, as far as I have been able to tell been involved in this trade. And I’m very sure about that.

The agency that had this girl didn’t know about it, neither did her family and many of her friends. But as I told, many of her girlfriends were involved in this trade also. One evening when I was alone at Hollywood Nites, one of the most popular prostitute places in SPB, I paid twenty bucks to one of the young hookers for half an hour of information about this trade among the young students. It was quite an interesting story. It’s easy to understand how tempting it can be for these girls. One girl I know from Novgorod south of SPB makes twenty US$ a month while a one hour stunt in SPB can go as high as 300 US$ if you are really beautiful and find a hot foreign tourist. I for one can’t really blame them for what they are doing. And a lot of these girls can be found in the agencies. They have got used to a regular income, but want to get out of the trade. Interesting that AFA has their socials in Hollywood Nites, even if I have no reason to believe that any of the prostitutes are present at their socials.

End of copy!

Well I got my feet wet on that one.

In the following year I wrote with many and travelled to meet with some. Inviting those I really liked to come live with me for a couple of weeks while continuing to write all the time.
The end of a visit was terrible. Felt like an asshole dropping these beautiful, sincere young ladies off at the airport with a final goodbye, after having lived together with them for weeks. At least one was deeply hurt.

Took this 25 year old beauty along for a vacation in southern France. Sorry she was, when leaving for home after a month together.

I continued calling and writing sporadically with her till she finally met with another man she was planning to marry in Sweden.

Stumbled onto Lena in August 99 through a young entrepreneur named Anna who posted her university girlfriends on the internet. Lena was to become one of those I continued writing with, even when she was on her way to meet with other men in Europe. Impressed I was; not only by her beauty, but the fact that at age 22 she was finishing her university education while working full time as a manager in a private bank with 20 employees below her. An irresistible young lady with the energy of dynamite for me to handle.
Eight months later on my 45th. birthday I picked her up at the airport an hour late.
(an incident never to be forgotten and used for all its worth whenever she is mad at me;
"I was so stupid standing there waiting instead of catching a return flight back home")

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R005.jpg)

Next day we went skiing in the mountains with some of my friends for a week.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R007.jpg)

It was the first time ever for Lena
And she struggled hard just standing still without falling.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R008.jpg)

Couple of days later she was able to start moving in a straight line till she hit something.
Had most of her body colored red, blue and green before the end of the week.

Before we could set a date for the wedding I had to meet with her parents.
Two weeks later I arrived at Borispil airport.
 
(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R009.jpg)

On the bus between Borispil and Dnepropetrovsk.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R011.jpg)

Buying flowers for her mother.
So there I was at their doorstep, more than a little nervous to meet parents my own age.
Whatever doubts I had however, were blown away upon getting to know Lena's mother.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R013.jpg)

A beautiful lady filled with unlimited energy. The last one in bed and first in the morning.
And my wife to-be was probably full of the same genes.

Let's backtrack some years to understand where I was coming from. Throughout my late teens and early twenties I had been dating a large pool of category ten girls without falling in love, except for this stunning beautiful 16 year old with a mysterious burning flame deep inside her eyes. The following ten years was a roller coaster life, traveling all over the world, driving race cars and building a business while playing out the plot for her career. We lived our dreams by doing them, never to worry about the consequences, just backpedaling when necessary. She started out with only basic education, sorting the daily mail and serving coffee in a small office. To become the financial director of a large corporation before we parted. Later on "Business Woman of the year in Norway" with a six digit salary (and still a stunning beauty).

Aged 33 at the end of this adventurous relationship I vaguely realized that my next love would have to possess that flame in her eyes for me to fall in love. Something that would prove elusive for years to come.

To be continued
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Phil757 on January 13, 2013, 06:11:57 PM
Good read.  Can't wait for the rest....
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on January 13, 2013, 07:16:33 PM
Hi, Cutie!!!!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on January 13, 2013, 07:23:07 PM
 :popcorn:   


Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 13, 2013, 07:30:53 PM
Northkape,
 
Welcome after 13  years.  Because you have been married for over 10 years, I assume the story you are telling is a happy one about life with a good RW.  I look forward to your next posts.
 
I understand Ranetka's feelings about the photos and I have mixed feelings myself.  However, I suggest the photos stay because they are part of the story plus it was 13 years ago.  If you were reporting a recent trip, I would suggest that the photos be deleted.  Time takes care of most concerns.
 
The allegations of prostitution must be taken with a grain of salt.  How large is the difference between a woman taking $200 for an evening's work and another woman deciding to leave her boyfriend because he doesn't give her the amount of money she expects?   In 1999 there were many, many young RW accepting money from "boyfriends" in loveless relationships. Times were difficult and women were oppressed.
     
One situation where the women's photos should not be released is the dark and dreadful case in which some RW are forced to prostitution, essentially working in servitude to crime bosses.   Northkape, do you believe the first woman in your story  was forced to be a prostitute, compelled to leave you for a night to meet her major client?   If so, you should delete her photo.  It is good that you did not name her.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 13, 2013, 07:50:43 PM
Sorry that some are offended by that first picture.

I didn't post it along with the story back in 99 for that same reason.
But now it's almost 14 years later.
And this lady was changing her looks all the time with makeup and hair.
On top of that I slightly changed her look in Photoshop before posting it.

I my opinion I wouldn't think even her mother would recognize her from this picture alone.

For the rest of the pictures I really don't understand it, as they are harmless pictures of my lovely wife in public places.
Maybe some are complaining without reading the full story.

Personally I like reading stories with pictures and I would want others to enjoy my stories also.

Best Regards

Jan
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: I/O on January 13, 2013, 08:56:49 PM
Class action happening here? Jumping to conclusions again people - he may not be keeping any photos, he did mention a thread on another site from years ago - perhaps he just copied the photos in from there?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: AnonMod on January 13, 2013, 09:40:27 PM
For the time being the photos stay. For those of you who oppose the story and/or the photos I would suggest you start a thread for that discussion. In the mean time, please stop polluting this thread with your repeated objections. Most by now understand you object. Your point is made. The OP has a story to share, allow him the latitude and the opportunity to get the thread back on topic
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 13, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
For the time being the photos stay. For those of you who oppose the story and/or the photos I would suggest you start a thread for that discussion. In the mean time, please stop polluting this thread with your repeated objections. Most by now understand you object. Your point is made. The OP has a story to share, allow him the latitude and the opportunity to get the thread back on topic
Yes, maybe sans response, and putting all of this crap in a second thread.  I wish everyone would examine the title of his thread 
 
"Update - 13 years Later"
 
  and now consider what the word "update" entails.  .
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: His wife on January 13, 2013, 09:50:58 PM
Just wondering how would topic starter felt about his wife if she sat somewhere on some Russian –married-US  forum and tell the whole world about every American/Indian/German/Italian she met and what they did and didn’t , posted their pics, so on…


He must be bored to death living in his memories….
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 13, 2013, 09:51:43 PM
northkape, hopefully it ended up being a happy ending.  I understand if you don't want to finish your story after being attacked before you could finish.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 13, 2013, 10:32:52 PM
Thanks AnonMod

Jan
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on January 13, 2013, 10:45:50 PM
Jan - your wife is beautiful!!!!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on January 14, 2013, 07:35:44 AM
.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Hammer2722 on January 14, 2013, 07:39:32 AM
This thread definitely needs to go in the sans response section. I would really like to read this story without all the garbage added in!!!!!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on January 14, 2013, 07:44:00 AM
This thread definitely needs to go in the sans response section. I would really like to read this story without all the garbage added in!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=z2H_KpOf0Bc#t=103s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=z2H_KpOf0Bc#t=103s)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ranetka on January 14, 2013, 10:38:26 AM
Class action happening here? Jumping to conclusions again people - he may not be keeping any photos, he did mention a thread on another site from years ago - perhaps he just copied the photos in from there?


No, he tested it first. Yesterday or a while this thread contained only first woman's photo with the words "test" :-)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on January 14, 2013, 11:20:51 AM
Sorry that some are offended by that first picture.

For the rest of the pictures I really don't understand it, as they are harmless pictures of my lovely wife in public places.

As I understand it northkape, all the pictures except the first are of your wife.
Is that true?

Did not anyone else catch this?

But northkape, if the pictures are of your wife, why did you scatter them among the stories of the other women, which you surely knew would confuse readers?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on January 14, 2013, 12:47:55 PM

No, he tested it first. Yesterday or a while this thread contained only first woman's photo with the words "test" :-)

He was testing on how to post photos. Is that too, worthy of protest? :D



There are no laws or forum rules against posting photos. It's a personal decision of the author. Methinks thou do protests too much. Let it be
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on January 14, 2013, 12:49:52 PM
As I understand it northkape, all the pictures except the first are of your wife.
Is that true?

Did not anyone else catch this?

But northkape, if the pictures are of your wife, why did you scatter them among the stories of the other women, which you surely knew would confuse readers?

No. The first two are women he'd known previously to his wife. One pic is of himself and another is of energetic MIL. Did you just look at the pictures and not read the post?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on January 14, 2013, 01:00:41 PM
Posting pictures, IMO, is per the OP's discretion.
 
The only thing I don't quite agree with, maybe do not understand, is what's the point of posting a picture(s) of an ex-GF who was supposedly a prostitute...couldn't the story be just as viable without the picture? I doubt this lady would be thrilled to know her picture is posted on a WM/FSUW dating forum showcased as a hooker.
 
I supposed this goes in the same vein as AD's posting of photos of sex touring Romeo's of the days of yore.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on January 14, 2013, 01:06:15 PM
Moderator -

Could we move all discussion on Pictures - for whatever reason - to the other thread.  They are not needed as the issue has already been decided.  Let's try to coax our now reluctant story teller into finishing his story.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on January 14, 2013, 01:26:57 PM
No. The first two are women he'd known previously to his wife. One pic is of himself and another is of energetic MIL. Did you just look at the pictures and not read the post?

I am just going by what he posted, which I requested clarification from him.

Quote from: northkape on Yesterday at 08:50:43 PM (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.msg320438#msg320438)Sorry that some are offended by that first picture.

For the rest of the pictures I really don't understand it, as they are harmless pictures of my lovely wife in public places.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 14, 2013, 03:18:07 PM
The wedding
 
From age 33 I searched low and high for a soulmate with that flame inside. All of ten years before I threw in the towel. Thats when I decided to try writing instead of dating.
And clearly the best choice for writing with available, intelligent and strong women was the FSU. But even when writing several letters each and every day, it took me more than two years before finally marrying with Lena.

Now, let's go back to Lena's hometown again.

Before leaving I wanted to meet with Anna, the lady who had introduced me to Lena and persuaded her to keep writing with me through all those months. Anna liked my letters and was sure I would be a good husband for Lena even though I was more than 20 years older.
(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R014.jpg)

Anna together with Lena when we went for a barbecue outside the city.


After the date for the wedding was decided, Lena followed me to Kiev where we spent a couple of days together before I left for Norway.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R016.jpg)

We were going to marry at Zagz in Lena's hometown two moths later. No church wedding the way Lena wanted it, as there were no available dates for the next 6 months.

For Lena and her mother there was such an endless list of things to arrange before the first of July.

For me was preparing all necessary paperwork at home plus the expenses.
Her bank alone wanted 3000 US$ for releasing Lena, as they had paid for her university education. Arranging all the bribes for immediate paperwork was 1000 US$ including a new international passport with a new family name to be ready the day after wedding.

Renting the best restaurant in town for the wedding day, another restaurant for the brunch the next day, the food, the drinks, the band to play in the evening party, the connoisseur, the photographer, the video guy, and so on was another 3000 US$
It was to be my first and hopefully last wedding so I wanted all available options.
(All in all it turned out fantastic at a price almost to good to be true)

I decided to drive by car to Lena for the wedding, while my parents and brother got on a plane. It was practical for many reasons, Lena had a lot of personal belongings she wanted to take along and we could do the honeymoon as a long and exiting trip through all of southern Europe.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R020.jpg)

At Lena's home before the wedding.

The ceremony at Zagz

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R023.jpg)

That lady in red, in charge of the Zagz, did everything possible to help us in the short amount of time before the wedding.
I offered her a 100$ note for all she had done for us, but she refused to take it. On the last day when we visited her, Lena asked her for a copy of a document.
While she went to the copy machine I went behind her desk and buried a 20$ note in the bottom of the bottom drawer.
When we received our wedding certificate a few days later the 20$ note was neatly taped to the inside with a smile on it.

After Zagz we took a walk in the park and had a photo session before the evening party.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R024.jpg)
(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R025.jpg)

For the evening party I had written a great speech in english. Lena had a professional translator convert it to russian, which I worked hard to memorize word by word in the week before the wedding. Enabling me to make a speech in front of my audience in their native language.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R027.jpg)

Dancing with my new "mother in law"

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R028.jpg)


And for those doubting my sincerity and the story.

Here is fast forward eleven years.
A tribute to the discipline of many Ukraine women when it comes to taking care of their body and appearance.
Lena in the summer of 2011 with our twin sons when we revisited Novy Sviet (a hidden pearl) on the Crimean coast.
And a tribute to their power and determination when it comes to the fulfillment of their dreams.
Taking care of her family first and foremost, Lena waited until recently before reeducating for a high level career. As of today she is working as an auditor in the tax department of the Norwegian government.
That flame i found inside her mind 13 years ago is still burning bright.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R090.jpg)

To be continued
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Lily on January 14, 2013, 03:30:46 PM
Beautiful Lena! Fantastically done! Love the report and photos!!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on January 14, 2013, 03:31:52 PM
Wow.

And all you guys and gals were wondering about this guy.  Jan, this is why we are here - to hear stories like yours.  I have a small tear in my eye looking at your wonderful family.  Tell your wife that she has beautiful dimples when she smiles from me.

We can only aspire to these types of stories.  In the past couple of weeks I have had a wonderful opportunity to meet online some really neat FSU / WM couples, through email and chat.  But never have I seen the beginning through my aspired end. 

Thank you for sharing with us and if you choose to show more, even better.

-jon
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on January 14, 2013, 06:38:33 PM
WOW! And just think, Jan has wasted 13 long years with a seemingly great family and raising 2 sons with a beautiful wife, all the while "could have" been a sex tourist in Piter or Ukraine. What was he thinking?

Good job Jan. That's a beautiful family. Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Anechka on January 14, 2013, 08:23:32 PM
Quote
“All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.” Leo Tolstoy

A bit boring, IMHO
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on January 14, 2013, 08:34:21 PM
A bit boring, IMHO

I've always said that the most wonderful woman in the world has kindness and wisdom.  Some would think me old fashioned but I still feel that those traits hold true today.

-j
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Anechka on January 14, 2013, 09:35:18 PM
I've always said that the most wonderful woman in the world has kindness and wisdom.  Some would think me old fashioned but I still feel that those traits hold true today.

-j

Lol, ok, I will keep that in mind. Again, the story is boring, there are thousands of similar stories, however, millions of people in the world prefer to read about unfortunate Anna Karenina.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 14, 2013, 10:42:04 PM
Lol, ok, I will keep that in mind. Again, the story is boring, there are thousands of similar stories, however, millions of people in the world prefer to read about unfortunate Anna Karenina.

Don't be such a wet blanket!  Of course there are thousands (even millions) of such stories (possibly, even, your own), but very few actually get written about.  As an old-fashioned romantic, I would far rather read the occasional story like this than be constantly bombarded with doom, gloom and destruction (and that's only here on RWD)!  It's nice to see what might possibly be in my future, even without the kids.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 14, 2013, 10:49:48 PM
Lol, ok, I will keep that in mind. Again, the story is boring, there are thousands of similar stories, however, millions of people in the world prefer to read about unfortunate Anna Karenina.


Maybe you should go to the theater and give this thread a break.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on January 14, 2013, 11:06:29 PM

Don't be such a wet blanket!  Of course there are thousands (even millions) of such stories (possibly, even, your own), but very few actually get written about.  As an old-fashioned romantic, I would far rather read the occasional story like this than be constantly bombarded with doom, gloom and destruction (and that's only here on RWD)!  It's nice to see what might possibly be in my future, even without the kids.

+1
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: tfcrew on January 15, 2013, 12:19:32 AM
Is Patrick still the planet love admin [does anybody know?]
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on January 15, 2013, 01:58:29 AM
I've always said that the most wonderful woman in the world has kindness and wisdom.  Some would think me old fashioned but I still feel that those traits hold true today.

-j

a bit off-topic, but what do you think are the qualities of the most wonderful man in the world?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on January 15, 2013, 02:09:16 AM
Beautiful story, beautiful couple, beautiful photos.
Thank you to share your story.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Shadow on January 15, 2013, 03:35:23 AM
Is Patrick still the planet love admin [does anybody know?]
Patrick retired a long time ago.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Anechka on January 15, 2013, 08:23:30 AM

Don't be such a wet blanket!  Of course there are thousands (even millions) of such stories (possibly, even, your own), but very few actually get written about.  As an old-fashioned romantic, I would far rather read the occasional story like this than be constantly bombarded with doom, gloom and destruction (and that's only here on RWD)!  It's nice to see what might possibly be in my future, even without the kids.

Sorry, my husband is a system administrator, not a writer.
Old-fashioned romantic story? Give me a break! It's a story about a guy who went to do wife-shopping. If he removes the first 2 girls, then yes, it's a nice family story, but accusation of prostitution (that he can't prove, it's just his imagination) doesn't usually go with romance unless he marries the girl at the end.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 16, 2013, 08:51:54 AM
Nothkape,
 
Thank you for staying with us through some photo turmoil and updating us about your happy life with a RW and children.  It is a good story, the type that compels men to venture to the FSU.   Compared to most RW marriages to western men, 13 years is a long time.  Congratulations!
 
Your story demonstrates that it probably takes time to find the special woman who is ideal for you, and along the way you may briefly become involved with a few who are less than ideal for you, yet may be fine for another man.
 
No one commented about this; however, I think the two of you are a very attractive couple.
 
I am older than you and thought MIL is indeed fine. :D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on January 16, 2013, 09:54:26 AM
To the OP.

May you tell me, among several FSU ladies you choice HER ?
Why her and not an other ?

 :luv:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mendeleyev on January 16, 2013, 11:38:43 AM
Very enjoyable story and you have a beautiful family. Thanks for sharing as it shows that international marriages can be successful.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 18, 2013, 08:53:02 PM
Pat, what I was searching for, and found in Lena is explained in the first and second part.

Part three:
Leaving for Norway

For the day after the wedding we had rented this nice restaurant for brunch with the family, including my parents and my brother with his wife.
 
 (http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R029.jpg)

Never before or after have I been served dishes with such an amount of work put into it.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R030.jpg)

The fish plate behind wasn't a fish, but it was made from the skin of a fish stuffed with fish meat inside.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R031.jpg)

There were several plates decorated like this one;
A picture of a bird made from delicious tasting foods.
Just amazing, (for me never to forget).

Then came the all the paper stuff.
Everyone at the authorities necessary for signing the passport documents had been bribed
beforehand so they were present at work this day.
I personally drove the director of the office (he was hiding in the back of my car) to the regional headquarters in Dnepropetrovsk were all paperwork was supposed to be ready and waiting. Something had apparently failed however, and we were standing there waiting for three hours before he came out with a thumbs up and signaled for me to take him back to Lena's hometown. An hour later Lena had a new international passport with her new family name in it.

Before we left for the long drive to Kiev we stopped at the top of the hill and looked back at Lena's hometown.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R033.jpg)

This was what we were leaving behind.
The industrial town at the end of the road.

Had an appointment at the Norwegian Embassy in the early morning. With the Norwegian fiancee visa in hand, we drove to the Austrian embassy for a chengen visa, as we had planned a visit to Wien after leaving Ukraine. I walked by the long line of women waiting outside and persuaded the guard at the door to let me in. A few hours later, in the last minutes before closing time we got the visa for Lena.
We had been able to accomplish what seemed impossible at first, marrying on Saturday and leaving Tuesday evening for the honeymoon, with Lena's new passport and all papers in hand.

We drove from Kiev through Shitomir were we spent the night at the only hotel with a lockable garage for the car. They didn't have hot water at the time, so we got an electrical heater spiral to put into a bucket were we could heat water. Then through Livov and crossing the border into Hungary.
In the following three weeks we drove a long route through southern Europe before heading north through France and Germany. Along the way we also stopped to visit some friends of Lena that had left Ukraine before her.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R035.jpg)
A picture of us in Cannes on the French Riviera

When arriving for the boat from northern Germany to Oslo there was no available fare with the car for the next two days.
Neither could we take the boat to Sweden as Lena didn't have the necessary visa.
Decided to drive through Denmark instead, for a boat to southern Norway.
Ended up spending the next day getting a transfer visa for Lena through Denmark.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R037.jpg)

Lena on the upper deck between Denmark and southern Norway.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R038.jpg)

Arriving in Norway

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R039.jpg)

The day after arriving we were out for a beer at the riverside in my hometown.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R040.jpg)

On the first weekend we visited my parents and sister at their summerhouse.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R041.jpg)

Lena had a valid drivers license from Ukraine already, but she has to pass a full test within a year to make it permanently valid in Norway.
A few weeks later, after driving together with her every evening to gain experience behind the wheel, I got her a used car so she had the freedom go wherever she wanted on her own.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R043.jpg)

My brother had a nice boat we could use for short trips along the coast.

A meeting not recommended for your new RW

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R044.jpg)

The girl I had been dating the year before marrying with Lena invited us to a party in Oslo.
A beautiful aircraft pilot three years older than Lena.
I had told her earlier that I was writing with women from FSU for finding a wife.
She never believed I would actually find one, and now she was curious to see what I had fallen in love with.
In the first years after marrying we often met former dates of mine and it was obvious to me that it was hard for Lena to hide her displeasure.
Later, when she understood that those were nothing but cold tracks from the past, she no longer cared.

A couple of months later; we are celebrating her 24th birthday

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R046.jpg)

My dear Lenochka


To be continued
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on January 19, 2013, 12:35:58 PM
I had told her earlier that I was writing with women from FSU for finding a wife.
...what I had fallen in love with.

 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 19, 2013, 01:55:27 PM
Thanks for questioning my choice of words Mies.
I think I understand what you are thinking.
In my opinion however, "what" is correct for what I'm trying to tell.
Think about it more like: "what is great about that person"

English is not my native language and I'm certainly not above making mistakes.
So if you or anyone else can convince me I'm wrong, I'm willing to listen.

Jan
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: calmissile on January 19, 2013, 02:29:26 PM
Thanks for questioning my choice of words Mies.
I think I understand what you are thinking.
In my opinion however, "what" is correct for what I'm trying to tell.
Think about it more like: "what is great about that person"

English is not my native language and I'm certainly not above making mistakes.
So if you or anyone else can convince me I'm wrong, I'm willing to listen.

Jan

Don't worry, I think we all know what you meant.   Your language if fine.
A great story, keep it coming.  It is so refreshing to hear success stories.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on January 19, 2013, 02:34:17 PM
Thanks for questioning my choice of words Mies.
I think I understand what you are thinking.
In my opinion however, "what" is correct for what I'm trying to tell.
Think about it more like: "what is great about that person"

English is not my native language and I'm certainly not above making mistakes.
So if you or anyone else can convince me I'm wrong, I'm willing to listen.

Jan

Neither it is mine. :) And i do understand what you were saying, so that's ok.
Please, continue your story. Yours is quite fascinating example of happy marriage.


My comment was rather philosophical, and as such - boring. Falling in love is commonly believed to be irrational behavior. It is often said that if you love a person - you love all their qualities/features too, because they belong to the person you love. It is rather rare to hear that someone has fallen in love with the set of qualities (what), but we do quite often hear that someone has fallen in love with a person (who) with some particular set of qualities. Also, usually the word "what" is used for objects rather than subjects. In this case, it makes sense to chose the word "what" when indicating that you are talking about the object, collection of useful features, rather than the integral person. You seem to be focusing on these high-quality features when talking about every woman you dated, and like to support your words with photos.
What is remarkable in this whole story, your wife apparently truly loves you. Otherwise why would she stay with you for 13 years and have 2 sons with you? I surely wouldn't stay with such men, more than 50% of RWs wouldn't. As such, you marriage is indeed happy. A rare luck for you, perhaps.   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 19, 2013, 02:40:21 PM
Thanks for questioning my choice of words Mies.
I think I understand what you are thinking.
In my opinion however, "what" is correct for what I'm trying to tell.
Think about it more like: "what is great about that person"

English is not my native language and I'm certainly not above making mistakes.
So if you or anyone else can convince me I'm wrong, I'm willing to listen.

Jan

A logical construct which most native English speakers wouldn't even think about!  To me, this reinforces the learning of another language - one of the great results of my learning French and Latin at school was how much the knowledge of their grammar and sentence construction improved my English grammar and sentence construction.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 19, 2013, 02:55:37 PM
Before we left for the long drive to Kiev we stopped at the top of the hill and looked back at Lena's hometown.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R033.jpg)

This was what we were leaving behind.
The industrial town at the end of the road.

Without trying to be too rude about another part of the world, I, too, would be happy to leave that behind.  It is eerily reminiscent of photos I've seen from the 1930s and earlier of steel and mining towns in the USA and Russia where people died early deaths due solely to the horrendous atmospheric pollution.
 

A meeting not recommended for your new RW

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R044.jpg)

The girl I had been dating the year before marrying with Lena invited us to a party in Oslo.
A beautiful aircraft pilot three years older than Lena.
I had told her earlier that I was writing with women from FSU for finding a wife.
She never believed I would actually find one, and now she was curious to see what I had fallen in love with.
In the first years after marrying we often met former dates of mine and it was obvious to me that it was hard for Lena to hide her displeasure.
Later, when she understood that those were nothing but cold tracks from the past, she no longer cared.

What did you expect?  You've married a really beautiful young woman from outside your own culture, who is over the moon to find such a great, caring man...and now you're introducing her to your ex-girlfriends?  :cluebat:   There are plenty of FSUW (probably even some on this forum  ;D ) who would have walked out on you for doing something like this.
 
Apart from that, however, I'm glad that you have found such a wonderful, tolerant woman!  Congratulations on the way your life has gone since Lena entered it all those years ago.  :couple:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ranetka on January 19, 2013, 03:05:53 PM
Jan,


what made you to post this thread now, 13 years later?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on January 19, 2013, 03:13:27 PM

 
What did you expect?  You've married a really beautiful young woman from outside your own culture, who is over the moon to find such a great, caring man...and now you're introducing her to your ex-girlfriends?  :cluebat:   There are plenty of FSUW (probably even some on this forum  ;D ) who would have walked out on you for doing something like this.

not just that. Many young and hot RWs would first  :cluebat: the OP to "teach him a valuable lesson," and only then would walk out on him  :ROFL: RWs are very humane, and it is only humane to teach the true values to someone who spent 45 years of his life unable to say right from wrong and black from white. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on January 19, 2013, 03:21:09 PM
Jan,


what made you to post this thread now, 13 years later?

Maybe, this milestone?
"Taking care of her family first and foremost, Lena waited until recently before reeducating for a high level career. As of today she is working as an auditor in the tax department of the Norwegian government."

The OP is 58 now, his wife is 58-23=35, looks young and hot, just landed good job. Can provide for the family well, disciplines herself & stays in good shape, 2 handsome boys - sons. Looks to me like a dream come true.

However, I am still fascinated by the story of his first Norwegian girlfriend. Attractive woman who became "financial director of a large corporation" at the age of roughly 26? This is something else. Too bad the OP doesn't want to post her photo. I bet she still looks great, in her 51.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 19, 2013, 06:07:12 PM
Quote
She never believed I would actually find one, and now she was curious to see what I had fallen in love with.
Quote
In my opinion however, "what" is correct for what I'm trying to tell.
Yes, if your intention was ironic ;), or if  "What sort of woman..." or similar was what you had originally in mind.

English grammar classifies "who/whom"as pronouns used to refer to persons, "where" to places and "what" for almost anything else.

Although a Cockney, for instance, could be expected to say "This is the bird wot I fell in luv with" :D. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: cc3 on January 19, 2013, 06:40:23 PM
Beautiful story, beautiful couple, beautiful photos.
Thank you to share your story.

+1000
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 19, 2013, 08:30:49 PM
Why would a philosophical comment be boring Mies??
(Like your analytical mind enough to forego the conclusions.)

The human mind is considered rational in its fight for survival,
but I find it rather irrational when it comes to understanding itself in choosing its path through life.

Ranetka; 
That is a question I have been waiting for.
Not to be answered now however.


Close Mies, I'm 57, Lena is 36
Rare luck and a dream come through,,, really?
As if I had just flipped the coin.

I have no digital pictures of my first love, only a box of old slides from our adventurous days together.
On the internet however I found hundred of pages outlining every detail of her professional life as a business woman, race car driver and politician.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R200.jpg)

Funny, I found this picture I can't remember having seen before, from when we were together in 1987.
Taken inside my shop of someone unknown to me.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R201.jpg)

She became "world famous" as a race car driver.
Totally fearless, risking her life whenever necessary for winning.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R202.jpg)

And yes, she is still good looking Mies

I think Lena admires her for her achievement as I was not allowed to mention here name in the first years. Now is different however, I have a picture of them dancing together at birthday party a year ago.

Jan
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on January 19, 2013, 09:28:56 PM
And yes, she is still good looking Mies

Not that my opinion matters in any way, but she indeed is very beautiful  :clapping:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 29, 2013, 07:55:24 PM
About learning the language.
The barrier that can make or brake your marriage.

Back in the days when writing letters, I always touched on the importance of learning the native language of your destination.
If a woman didn't have a basic foundation in English or German already, I considered it a waste of time to go forward.
In my opinion; most intelligent RW that are serious about moving to another country for marriage starts by learning a little English first.

It is among my deepest beliefs; that for an intelligent, thinking person to feel at home and flourish in a society,
he needs to master the language to absolute perfection.
Not only grammatically correct, but all the subtle nuances adding additional depth to the spoken word.
A task so easy in youth, getting increasingly harder the older you get.

From personal experience I have observed that some people can happily live their entire lives in a society
without knowing more than minuscule percentage of their language.

Me, not. Neither would I want my future wife to be isolated by language in her new country.
Truly learning a new language is a long and hard journey that will take several years,
but the only alternative for happiness in my opinion is returning to where she came from.

Through the years here at home I have seen many well educated women from FSU
working in low paid jobs far below their rank because they married a man that didn't
understand or want the burden of struggling for years perfecting his wife's new language.
Almost all of those divorced a few years later.

When I started writing with Lena her English was above basic.
During the following eight months she rose to above good in writing and on the phone.
I offered to help pay for her classes early on, but she refused.
From the first day we met, communicating was mostly painless.
Before leaving from Kiev we visited several book stores in search of Russian-Norwegian dictionaries.
She then started learning Norwegian on her own immediately after arriving here.
Later, as soon as we got her enrolled, she took classes in school.
On top of that I found a young fluent speaking female teacher from Moscow, for an additional hour or two every other evening.
Lena's first years in Norway was mostly dedicated to learning Norwegian.
And she is still learning to this day, even though her grammar now is above most native citizen.
Without mastering the language she wouldn't have been able to reeducate and kick start a new career either.
For her present position, investigating tax fraud and preparing reports to be used as evidence in court, a perfect language is an absolute requirement.
 
(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R048.jpg)
Dropping Lena off for her first day at the school where foreigners can learn Norwegian for free.

Later when we (my wife) planned for kids we decided to let them learn both Russian and Norwegian.
I would speak and learn them Norwegian, while Lena would speak only Russian.
On top of that we enrolled them in an English speaking kindergarten and later a private English speaking school.
It has paid off as planned, today at the age of nine they are mastering three languages fluently.
(Slightly behind in Russian as they have only one source of input.)

One of the things Lena dreamt about before coming to Norway was mountains, or rather being on top of them.
Even though she got well beaten learning to ski in her first week visiting me before we married, she asked for more.
Through the years there have been many trips with and without skis.
We even took her parents along one winter, learning them to ski as well.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R050.jpg)

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R051.jpg)

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R052.jpg)

To be continued
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Chicagoguy on January 29, 2013, 08:31:51 PM
Thanks including all the pictures. Must be a Norweigan trait as another one does also :)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on January 31, 2013, 09:40:14 PM
About learning the language.
The barrier that can make or brake your marriage.

Northkape, you just gave is the best advice to everyone: find the woman who speaks your language or at least a common language, and help her to learn your language.
You did all the right things to help her wife adapt to life in Norway  :clapping:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Brianinaz on February 09, 2013, 02:54:23 PM
Great story, I'm coming up on my fifth anniversary in a couple of months. Hope I can write something similar in another seven or eight years. Congratulations to you and your lovely wife
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ade on July 15, 2013, 04:10:05 AM
And now on the other site he admits they are getting a divorce and he's in Ukraine looking for a new wife...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on July 15, 2013, 06:26:12 AM
And now on the other site he admits they are getting a divorce and he's in Ukraine looking for a new wife...


Don't be such a wet blanket!  Of course there are thousands (even millions) of such stories (possibly, even, your own), but very few actually get written about.  As an old-fashioned romantic, I would far rather read the occasional story like this than be constantly bombarded with doom, gloom and destruction (and that's only here on RWD)!  It's nice to see what might possibly be in my future, even without the kids.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on July 15, 2013, 08:25:22 AM
And now on the other site he admits they are getting a divorce and he's in Ukraine looking for a new wife...

Question: Is the wife "facilitating" his dates?

That was not clear.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on July 15, 2013, 11:00:38 AM
And now on the other site he admits they are getting a divorce and he's in Ukraine looking for a new wife...

Too bad; it was a good story.  Nothing is constant except change.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: BillyB on July 15, 2013, 07:51:47 PM
Jan,


what made you to post this thread now, 13 years later?


Ranetka; 
That is a question I have been waiting for.
Not to be answered now however.



Jan, I've seen your photos, your wife's and your ex race car driver girlfriend's years ago at another site. This is not the first time you told it but thanks for sharing your story here.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on July 17, 2013, 05:35:04 PM
Billy you found the correct quote,,,,
But no, my story has only been told here, never anywhere else.
-
Of course I knew about the divorce all the time.
That was the reason for returning here and also telling the story.
-
And Ade
What is there to admit??
I never had anything to hide.
As in Billys resurrection of my quote, it was to be told later (after the fact)
We are not even separated at the moment.
-
This is what I wrote on the other site:
-
We decided to divorce last year,
So far we didn't have the time for filing the paper work so we are still married
and living together with our boys.
But Lena (my wife) bought herself an apartment in Oslo just before we left for this years vacation in Ukraine.
She is working as an auditor in the tax department of the Norwegian government.
-
Even if we are divorcing, we decided to go to Ukraine together this summer also.
Living in the apartment of her parents together with our twin boys.
I have a very good relationship with her parents even though they know that I'm looking for a new wife.
Boys are staying here for 4-5 weeks.
My primary reason for going is finding a new wife.
Also with Lena here it was very practical,
because she helped me call and make appointments with some of the women I was to meet with.
-
At the moment I'm in Odessa, but returning to Dniepodzherzhinsk in a day or two.
Lena returned to Norway yesterday.
All in all I will meet with 10-20 women during my three weeks here.
In the last six months I have been using almost every available dating site for finding a suitable replacement for my wife.
Boys stays with me so I have been looking for a woman with a child of her own.
Attaching a photo I helped my wife with for her profile on a dating site.
She still looks 29 being 36, though I would have preferred her to get older with the years also, with an age gap of 22 years.
-
And this is what I wrote there in an answer today:
-
There is no general advice when it comes to avoiding a divorce.
Wether you marry local or foreign.
-
I married a beautiful young (23) very ambitious Ukraine woman.
Highly educated, she was at the start of her career with 20 employees below her already.
Of course I knew, this was playing with fire....
Naysayers all around me gave me a maximum of 5 years.
Well, we had almost 13 great years together with no regrets.
-
Lena has become a western woman at the start of a new career, independent and with economical freedom.
You could say figuratively, that she has this insatiable desire to spread her wings and lift from the nest.
I know her very well and fully understand her.
-
What part of the divorce was related to the age gap,,,,,
We spoke of this between us, and it is of course a contributing factor.
But the age gap alone was not the reason we drifted apart.
-
I intend to marry a new woman approximately the same age as Lena.
One that is intelligent and educated with the same physical properties and looks.
(Maybe a little less ambitious this time)
In Lenas opinion, she thinks I will be able to handle it well.
-
Attached a photo from last summer in Ukraine.
Not easy to find late thirties women even here in Ukraine with such looks.
---- finished
-
-
Yes, Lena helped me call and arrange meetings for some of the women with limited Englsh.
Actually a little funny, she became so friendly with one of them that I had to go get a cup of coffee while waiting for her to finish.
Another one asked if Lena would come along as an interpreter, Lena almost fell of the chair laughing.
-
Lena is joking with me,, that I should marry too young and beautiful or not enough young and beautiful...
So to end in another divorce.....
Then the door will be open for her when she returns some 5-10 years into the future.
-
Jan
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LAman on July 17, 2013, 11:42:52 PM
Northcape......
...............this comes across as if your business is trying to fill a position that became available...interviewing prospective women while that position is not vacated yet.
Sorry to hear about the divorce, it is what it is, I just hope the kids don't get caught up in any dealings with 2 future households. I wish you good luck.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 18, 2013, 05:00:02 AM
Why Ukraine again?
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 18, 2013, 06:45:45 PM
Why Ukraine again?

Because, if he had 13 happy years with the first edition, he will obviously have just as long with the second one...especially if the first one is acting as Quality Controller!  :shock:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on July 18, 2013, 06:58:01 PM

Because, if he had 13 happy years with the first edition, he will obviously have just as long with the second one...especially if the first one is acting as Quality Controller!  :shock:

Really? Did he have a Ukrainian ex-wife with two kids in tow meddling in the first marriage?  :devil:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on July 19, 2013, 10:59:08 AM

Because, if he had 13 happy years with the first edition, he will obviously have just as long with the second one...especially if the first one is acting as Quality Controller!  :shock:

Maybe it's a part of their divorce agreement. Northkape opposes divorce and uses children (for example) as a control tool, his Ukrainian wife wants out of this marriage - after all she did already buy separate apartment for herself, so in her mind divorce decision is final.
Northkape feels nettled that the for the second time woman leaves him. He needs reassurance that he is great and can still feel good about himself. He chooses the position of denial (by telling on the forum about his ever strong 13yo marriage with beautiful young wife and two handsome kids), and then tells that although there are talks about divorce - the papers weren't filed because both he and his wife have no time for this (most likely he keeps procrastinating while his wife is trying to initiate the divorce), and that maybe they won't get divorced.

Most likely his Ukrainian wife agreed to assist him in finding a new wife because she hopes that when he will find a good "replacement"/new toy - he will let her out of the marriage and will become more cooperative, that it will become in his interest too to get a divorce, while at the moment he opposes to this.

Honestly, I am not surprised by the news. I am surprised that the young, ambitious and potent woman spent 13  years in the shadow of the OPs ex, was constantly compared to the ex, and presented to the ex for bragging and used as a tool of romantic revenge. Most likely she was held back by the role of mom and raising 2 twin boys. Hence it took her longer to become independent. I also think that she wasn't planning to use Northkape as a mule, and their relationship had good potential, but over time her eyes became open and she became fed up with the role Northkape had identified for her.

Northkape, with all due respect - if you want your new relationship to last - treat  your woman with respect, and find a woman with similar life interests and energy level to yours. Find a woman of your age, similar life outlook, someone stable, someone with same view of the future, and stop comparing women to your Norwegian ex. That relationship is over. No need to bring it into your new relationships.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 19, 2013, 12:02:54 PM
Are you kidding, Mies?
To go to Ukraine AGAIN and bring a woman of his age?
You're funny. 8)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ranetka on July 19, 2013, 12:22:57 PM
Are you kidding, Mies?
To go to Ukraine AGAIN and bring a woman of his age?
You're funny. 8)


We should expect another thread with more pictures as a proof he can still pull.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 19, 2013, 01:47:07 PM
Mies, want another " detail"? After 13 happy years (I believe him), after 2 years  or more (he said" all the time") of thinking of a divorce, WHILE living with his wife WITHOUT being divorced Northkape is looking for another Ukrainian woman (see his OP).
Дорогая редакция!  :D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: The Natural on July 19, 2013, 02:16:49 PM
So any way you cut it, men are pigs, right? I read his story, but don't feel I'm in any position to make judgements as some here feel very qualified to do. However, I don't understand why anyone would put themselves under such fire, which anyone who has spent some time on this site should know, surely will follow.
Entertaining story though and great photos. Hope all goes well with the both of them and most of all, the twins.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 19, 2013, 05:54:34 PM
So any way you cut it, men are pigs, right?    .
You said it.  :D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 19, 2013, 06:10:49 PM
Ah, I see- the boys are staying with Northkape so he is looking for a woman with a child and his present wife is helping him in it!
 
(http://s5.rimg.info/fc0b05812dc6528bf2fb94f23c9f690e.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-508138023.html)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Slumba on July 19, 2013, 07:02:00 PM
Ah, I see- the boys are staying with Northkape so he is looking for a woman with a child and his present wife is helping him in it!
 
(http://s5.rimg.info/fc0b05812dc6528bf2fb94f23c9f690e.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-508138023.html)

This is the way it was done in Western society for 100s of years (I mean, the boys stay with the father).
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 19, 2013, 07:30:27 PM
Those who are financially savvy know that the best time to apply for a bank loan is when you don't need it right now.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: pitbull on July 19, 2013, 07:32:32 PM
Ah, I see- the boys are staying with Northkape so he is looking for a woman with a child and his present wife is helping him in it!
 
(http://s5.rimg.info/fc0b05812dc6528bf2fb94f23c9f690e.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-508138023.html)



Well then makes sense that she wants to hand pick a stepmommy for her boys. They are what, only 10? Poor kiddos  :(


What a bizarre story overall!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on July 20, 2013, 02:16:47 AM
Natural,,,,
You said it, men are pigs (and women are bitches)
That's about all some are able to read out this tiny glimpse into my life with a "russian" wife………..
What fire,,,,,,,,
...comments from a few "armchair quarterbacks" representing a minuscule percentage of this worlds literate population.
I find some pleasure in writing this, as a way of philosophizing about my life, while memorizing it at the same time.
Also like myself, I think many of those reading here, enjoy reading "true to the life" stories illustrated with authentic photos.
It might, or not, inspire them, but those are my true audience.

I understand the worries about my boys.
They don't know about the divorce yet, and won't for a long time. We will tell it piece by piece in the coming year.
Lena will drive from us to work monday morning and return to us after work thursday evening (working at home one day a week)
My hometown is an hour away from where she works so my boys are glad she no longer needs to drive back and forth every day.
They have actvities after school all week so there won't be any change at all in the first year to come.
We both love our boys above all things, and all decisions were made to not harm them in any way.
Lena was willing to drop her career and find work locally,,,,, splitting custody 50/50.
But knowing how hard she has worked for it, for so many years, I agreed to taking care of them as much as necessary, and she having them as much as possible for her.

This small web page might give some insight into our life with the boys.
http://northkape.com/pictures
It's a part of the scheme I set up for finding the right woman, (more about that later).
Any intelligent woman with children understands immediately the harmony that must be present in a family like this.

Back to present day realities.
Yesterday I drove all the way from Kremenchug to Kharkov just to meet a single woman.
One I have communicated with somewhat sporadically for the last two months.
Educated with a nice job and a smart son she is very proud of.
I had mailed her this week about coming to visit friday or saturday and she had confirmed.
Before starting to drive I called her on the phone (first time).
She was a little confused, but then with a very happy voice told me she would be glad to meet with me later in the day.
Then an hour later I called again, telling my approximate arrival time in two hours. I was a little confused also from one small detail.
This was a lady who claimed to have only basic understanding of english, but here she was understanding and answering in english.
Well I called again after Poltava to discuss an "easy to find" place to meet. We agreed upon Mc.Donalds in Prospect Lenina.
Then a few minutes before my expected arrival time she calls (from another phone number), a little irritated, telling me she is waiting in front of Mc.Donalds.
I tell her I'm stuck in heavy traffic inside town but will be there in 10-15 minutes.
15 minutes later I'm unable to find her and she is not answering her phone.
I call the other number and she answers a little surprised,,,,,,,
telling me she had to drive back to her work (at seven saturday evening) and that she will call me within an hour about where to meet.
What a joke,,, feeling very happy that I didn't have to spend an evening of my time fndng it out
(along with a dinner and one of Lena's handpicked perfume bottles, had twenty of them to start with when arriving here)
I jumped into the car and started on the long drive to Kiev, of course she never called.
Driving into the night, I woke up sitting in the car a couple of hours ago.
Now I plan to find a place for a shower and then start calling the list of prospects I have in the Kiev area.
Jan
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 20, 2013, 03:31:51 AM
(Бички так бички- получай))))))))
Well, girls (and guys), Northkape is being rude
Quote

You said it, men are pigs (and women are bitches)
That's about all some are able to read out this tiny glimpse into my life with a "russian" wife………..
What fire,,,,,,,,
...comments from a few "armchair quarterbacks" representing a minuscule percentage of this worlds literate population.
I find some pleasure in writing this, as a way of philosophizing about my life, while memorizing it at the same time.
Also like myself, I think many of those reading here, enjoy reading "true to the life" stories illustrated with authentic photos.
It might, or not, inspire them, but those are my true audience.


which only proves Mies (and us) is totally right.
 
Quote
Any intelligent woman with children understands immediately the harmony that must be present in a family like this.

Sure. An intelligent woman with a child will be trapped (for a while) in this harmony.
First of all, we are Russian mothers and know how close we are to our kids. Now, imagine the kids are taken from us. It is the worst nightmare. No career or "cute appartment" will replace two sons. Never.
We know it (RW).
Then, guys, I will never understand this "harmony" when a married man is dating other women being on vacation with his wife and sons.
Is this called "harmony"?
 So,  somebody "didn't have time to file for the divorce" but has time to date the crowd)) of "new women"?
Lena helps her husband (harmony) to date?
 
 
(Northkape, we, RW, don't have to sugarcoat what we write- we are Russians, ok?)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: pitbull on July 20, 2013, 04:44:37 AM
Natural,,,,
You said it, men are pigs (and women are bitches)
That's about all some are able to read out this tiny glimpse into my life with a "russian" wife………..
What fire,,,,,,,,
...comments from a few "armchair quarterbacks" representing a minuscule percentage of this worlds literate population.
I find some pleasure in writing this, as a way of philosophizing about my life, while memorizing it at the same time.
Also like myself, I think many of those reading here, enjoy reading "true to the life" stories illustrated with authentic photos.
It might, or not, inspire them, but those are my true audience.

I understand the worries about my boys.
They don't know about the divorce yet, and won't for a long time. We will tell it piece by piece in the coming year.
Lena will drive from us to work monday morning and return to us after work thursday evening (working at home one day a week)
My hometown is an hour away from where she works so my boys are glad she no longer needs to drive back and forth every day.
They have actvities after school all week so there won't be any change at all in the first year to come.
We both love our boys above all things, and all decisions were made to not harm them in any way.
Lena was willing to drop her career and find work locally,,,,, splitting custody 50/50.
But knowing how hard she has worked for it, for so many years, I agreed to taking care of them as much as necessary, and she having them as much as possible for her.

This small web page might give some insight into our life with the boys.
http://northkape.com/pictures (http://northkape.com/pictures)
It's a part of the scheme I set up for finding the right woman, (more about that later).
Any intelligent woman with children understands immediately the harmony that must be present in a family like this.

Back to present day realities.
Yesterday I drove all the way from Kremenchug to Kharkov just to meet a single woman.
One I have communicated with somewhat sporadically for the last two months.
Educated with a nice job and a smart son she is very proud of.
I had mailed her this week about coming to visit friday or saturday and she had confirmed.
Before starting to drive I called her on the phone (first time).
She was a little confused, but then with a very happy voice told me she would be glad to meet with me later in the day.
Then an hour later I called again, telling my approximate arrival time in two hours. I was a little confused also from one small detail.
This was a lady who claimed to have only basic understanding


of english, but here she was understanding and answering in english.
Well I called again after Poltava to discuss an "easy to find" place to meet. We agreed upon Mc.Donalds in Prospect Lenina.
Then a few minutes before my expected arrival time she calls (from another phone number), a little irritated, telling me she is waiting in front of Mc.Donalds.
I tell her I'm stuck in heavy traffic inside town but will be there in 10-15 minutes.
15 minutes later I'm unable to find her and she is not answering her phone.
I call the other number and she answers a little surprised,,,,,,,
telling me she had to drive back to her work (at seven saturday evening) and that she will call me within an hour about where to meet.
What a joke,,, feeling very happy that I didn't have to spend an evening of my time fndng it out
(along with a dinner and one of Lena's handpicked perfume bottles, had twenty of them to start with when arriving here)
I jumped into the car and started on the long drive to Kiev, of course she never called.
Driving into the night, I woke up sitting in the car a couple of hours ago.
Now I plan to find a place for a shower and then start calling the list of prospects I have in the Kiev area.
Jan
Wow, you even set up an advertisement website! Do all these women you are dating now know that you are a married man and your wife will live with you for the next year? What a bizarre story!
Reminds of this US show about polygamists "sister wife". The current wives help the hubby to find and court a new one. Are you just looking for the second wife to spice up your marriage? Looks like key parts of this story are missing.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 20, 2013, 04:53:12 AM
They are missing but can be easily "guessed".
Poor Lena.
 
What can make a FSU woman go to Ukraine with her soon-to-be ex husband and help him to date many other Ukrainian women who this "soon-to-be" wants to marry?
My versions:
1) total insanity
2) despair
3) certain promises to let her keep the kids
4) emotional abuse (blackmail)
 
Agree, girls?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 20, 2013, 04:59:47 AM
Пит, мормоны нервно курят в сторонке, так как они хоть жен не выгоняют.
Хотя, я видела эти кинухи про них.
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: pitbull on July 20, 2013, 05:09:20 AM
Пит, мормоны нервно курят в сторонке, так как они хоть жен не выгоняют.
Хотя, я видела эти кинухи про них.


История совершенно сюрреилистичная  :popcorn:


Looked at the website. Dozens of the kids' photos. Only two photos  in the our home section: kitchen and bedroom. I have a caption for North: "and these are the two areas where you will perform most of your job duties".  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 20, 2013, 05:14:24 AM
Then, guys, I will never understand this "harmony" when a married man is dating other women being on vacation with his wife and sons.
Is this called "harmony"?
 So,  somebody "didn't have time to file for the divorce" but has time to date the crowd)) of "new women"?
Lena helps her husband (harmony) to date?

Don't worry, Doll - I'm most definitely a guy, and even I think this has got to be the weirdest setup I've ever seen.  :cluebat:
 
As for my comments earlier in the thread about being a sucker for a true romance - I think that I, as with many others, have been truly "sucked in!"
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 20, 2013, 05:28:42 AM

История совершенно сюрреилистичная  :popcorn:


Looked at the website. Dozens of the kids' photos. Only two photos  in the our home section: kitchen and bedroom. I have a caption for North: "and these are the two areas where you will perform most of your job duties".  ;D ;D
Then the translation of the "harmony" for a "new" wife is- she is going to wrap her (AND her kid's) life around the father and the boys.
See these piano lessons, swimming and gymnastics? This is what she is going to do in her "free time".
Бички так бички)))))))))
And yes- kitchen, cleaning, serving.
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 20, 2013, 05:40:21 AM

Don't worry, Doll - I'm most definitely a guy, and even I think this has got to be the weirdest setup I've ever seen.  :cluebat: 
 
 
Anotherkiwi, it is weirdest if you believe North when he says about "13 happy years of marriage".
Then he says they've been talking divorce "all the time" (for a while).
But this is nothing. "Something" is that  a FSU woman agrees to go to Ukraine and help him to date while still married.
My strongest version- Lena is promised (in exchange) to keep the boys.
And sure- North's dates all know about him being married and intending to live with his wife for another year. >:D
 
Or is it another form of adultery?
Bingo???????????????? >:D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ranetka on July 20, 2013, 06:12:39 AM
They are missing but can be easily "guessed".
Poor Lena.
 
What can make a FSU woman go to Ukraine with her soon-to-be ex husband and help him to date many other Ukrainian women who this "soon-to-be" wants to marry?
My versions:
1) total insanity
2) despair
3) certain promises to let her keep the kids
4) emotional abuse (blackmail)
 
Agree, girls?


Yes. totally. Very mentally unhealthy situation. 


Bizaar suggestion but may be Lena trying to prevent the situation when a new woman comes in for a visit the next day after the previous left, like it was the last time the OP was looking for a wife?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 20, 2013, 06:21:05 AM
When this "new" woman comes to this "harmony" and understands it (in a year)))) she will run away.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on July 20, 2013, 06:30:54 AM
Anotherkiwi, it is weirdest if you believe North when he says about "13 happy years of marriage".
Then he says they've been talking divorce "all the time" (for a while).
But this is nothing. "Something" is that  a FSU woman agrees to go to Ukraine and help him to date while still married.
My strongest version- Lena is promised (in exchange) to keep the boys.
And sure- North's dates all know about him being married and intending to live with his wife for another year. >:D
 
Or is it another form of adultery?

Bingo???????????????? >:D

Doll, now you are just extrapolating with some hyperbole. You couldn't possibly know these things or even guess half-assed correctly unless you know Lena and their situation. She might have already found a bigger, better deal to replace him and thus encouraging anything to get rid of him. You just don't know. It's highly unlikely North given his marketing campaign is going to state anything reflecting him in a bad light.

I agree, it is a very bizarre set-up and God help the woman that would that would thrust herself or be drawn into it. Just because Lena is an FSUW doesn't exclude her as the catalyst. You just do not know. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on July 20, 2013, 08:49:42 AM
Hi NorthKape,


It sounds like you had a pretty good run with your wife that is now ending.  I find it interesting that you have a good enough relationship with her, that she is helping you find another lady.  I've never heard of such a thing.  I would say that if you can maintain such good relations, it would be helpful for your two boys.  Do you have any ideas on how you are going to communicate about this divorce to them?  They may be noticing subtle changes already, so in my estimation it would be a good idea to sit with your current wife and the boys and let them know how divorce is going to change things, and also convey the things that are not going to change, such as your devotion towards them.






BTW: thanks for the pics, the house in Scandinavia is pretty neat..those chairs and the table fitted into the wall are not things i have seen.


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 20, 2013, 12:06:10 PM
Faux, nobody here (except for North) knows.
We all are just talking.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 20, 2013, 01:19:34 PM
Forgot to add- there is NO "bigger better deal" for  FSU woman if her kids are going to stay with her ex. Unless she is totally out of her mind.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on July 20, 2013, 04:51:47 PM
Why Ukraine again?

Doll, even though Northkape omits many dots, I can connect  the few dots that he does provide.  Northkape has two reasons for going to Ukraine:
 
First, he needs to establish the false impression that he is searching for a new wife, thus  concealing from immigration authorities  his plan to marry his current wife's younger sister.  The two sisters wish to unite permanently  in Norway.
 
His second reason for going to Ukraine is to attend the birth of Wife Number 4.

 
What other explanation is plausible?  Where is the tongue-in-cheek emoticon?
 
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 20, 2013, 05:04:26 PM
 :clapping:
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/gahamm_photos/mormon/mormon-family-crossing.gif)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on July 21, 2013, 06:19:59 AM
OP
I think that now you have not yet finished your mourny of your wife. In fact it is time to really divorce. You have pass the deny time now. I understand how it is difficult. Lena was not only a good woman but also IMHO the most beautiful ones among all others girlfriends.
You should finish your mourny before getting in the search in an other wife. I think it is why you get a large hostility from ladies here.
I understand your pain, but you need to clean Lena first.
Restarting a complete search in FSU is huge task.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 21, 2013, 11:18:27 AM
Not sure how it works in Norway but I guess the dovirce with two kids will last for a while.
At least, if I were Lena I would fight till "the last drop of blood" for my kids.
 
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on July 21, 2013, 11:48:52 AM
Not sure how it works in Norway but I guess the dovirce with two kids will last for a while.
At least, if I were Lena I would fight till "the last drop of blood" for my kids.


I think most women would fight for their children IF it came to that.  In this case there doesn’t appear to be a fight, so there would be no reason to start one, or delay the divorce process.  The danger of starting a fight when one is not necessary is that it can spoil what otherwise could be a good working relationship between ex-spouses. This would wind up hurting the kids, which is counter to what most women (or men) want to do.   
Maybe I'm missing something this guy wrote, but from what I've read the spouses seem to be handling this pretty good.


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gylden on July 21, 2013, 11:56:09 AM
COUPLES who share housework duties run a higher risk of divorce than couples  where the woman does most of the chores, a Norwegian study sure to get tongues  wagging has shown.                          

Read more:  http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/higher-risk-of-divorce-when-men-do-housework/story-fnet09y4-1226482988387#ixzz2ZhwtQN3C (http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/higher-risk-of-divorce-when-men-do-housework/story-fnet09y4-1226482988387#ixzz2ZhwtQN3C)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: The Natural on July 21, 2013, 12:06:53 PM
Not sure how it works in Norway but I guess the dovirce with two kids will last for a while.
At least, if I were Lena I would fight till "the last drop of blood" for my kids.

Don't worry, Norway is about the most feminine country there is and if it's a battle between the parents, the mother would be pretty messed up on drugs or something not to get the children. "My kids"? It's their kids together if I understand it correctly.
Divorce proceedings are pretty straightforward and the authorities does not meddle unless there is a conflict. It's a mandatory 1-year "separation" time though. The idea is, I guess, to facilitate some time that hopefully the couple might decide to continue the marriage.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 21, 2013, 03:29:41 PM

. . . Norway is about the most feminine country there is . . .

What happened to the descendants of Erik the Red and Leif?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 21, 2013, 04:40:36 PM
What happened to the descendants of Erik the Red and Leif?
They migrated elsewhere ;):

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Viking_Expansion.svg/793px-Viking_Expansion.svg.png)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on July 22, 2013, 10:46:05 AM
They are missing but can be easily "guessed".
Poor Lena.
 
What can make a FSU woman go to Ukraine with her soon-to-be ex husband and help him to date many other Ukrainian women who this "soon-to-be" wants to marry?
My versions:
1) total insanity
2) despair
3) certain promises to let her keep the kids
4) emotional abuse (blackmail)
 
Agree, girls?

Agreed. And Lena doesn't look insane to me.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on July 22, 2013, 10:46:23 AM
.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on July 22, 2013, 10:52:43 AM
Not sure how it works in Norway but I guess the dovirce with two kids will last for a while.
At least, if I were Lena I would fight till "the last drop of blood" for my kids.

Agree about this too. No sane woman, especially a UW/RW, will exchange her two 10yo boys for the "bigger deal and more comfortable life." And Lena doesn't strike me as a person who'd want her children out of her life. Having/wanting the OP in her life is a completely different matter.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on July 23, 2013, 04:55:42 AM

FatherTime
There will be no or very little pain for the boys the way me and Lena have arranged it.
I'm together with them several hours every day and know them very well.
And no, Lena isn't helping me finding a new wife,,,,,,
She helped me call some prospects because of my limited Russian.
-
As the The Natural said there are relatively few fights about children in Norway.
Among all divorces I'm familiar with, I can't remember anyone fighting about their children.
The normal situation is for the children to live in a divided household.
With the spouses agreeing about how to divide custody, like me and Lena are doing in this case.
-
Patagonie
Where did you find the part about mourning?
Me and Lena are rather pragmatic in behavior, and our divorce was a final decision before the end of last year.
At the end of february I decided to marry again and registered at a long list of dating sites (also Scandinavian)
Knowing how long it took me to find and marry with Lena, I found it best to start writing sooner rather than later.
-
I prefer to live in a close family, where we are doing things together. Wether it is household duties or traveling.
In my opinion, I see this as the best solution for my boys also.
A decision Lena fully supports for the sake of the boys, as they will be living more with me than with her.
I love children and found it most natural to search for single woman with her own child.
Preferably a girl close to the age of my boys.
-
I'm still in Kiev and feeling a little sorry for being unable to meet all of those I had promised to meet with.
The reason is, I am meeting with one of my favorites for the third time this evening.
I promised to myself not to get too emotionally involved before meeting all of those I have spent so much time finding……...
Boy, that ain't easy……….
-
Here is a picture Lena's father snapped with my mobile phone the first week in Dniepodzherzhinsk.
It's probably the last one of us being together.
-
The car a Peugot 607 was bought especially for this trip.
This is not a popular car in Ukraine, so I can park it anywhere without any risk for it being stolen.
In silver with black leather interior like this one, it's very good looking.
It's large and comfortable on the road and usually comes loaded with options.
With the 2.0 engine and manual transmission very economical.
This 2001 edition was in "like new" condition inside and outside and had a full service record to its 200.000 km
And at a price of 5000 Euro, they are dirt cheap to buy,,,
So far I have racked up 8000 km in it during the last two weeks without a single problem.
Jan

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R100.jpg)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 23, 2013, 07:25:41 AM
That seems to be you in the picture; so if the other person is your father-in-law as you stated . . . did he go through a sex change operation?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Hammer2722 on July 23, 2013, 07:55:11 AM
That seems to be you in the picture; so if the other person is your father-in-law as you stated . . . did he go through a sex change operation?

ML, you might want to re-read his post again. He says his Father-in-law snapped the photo!!!  ;)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on July 23, 2013, 10:52:52 AM
That seems to be you in the picture; so if the other person is your father-in-law as you stated . . . did he go through a sex change operation?


I see you're still afflicted with the Playboy subscription syndrome - the pictures always seem to get in the way in paying proper attention to what were written in the articles, and in this case the post, no?

But yes...the car really is pretty distracting.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 24, 2013, 08:43:24 PM

ML, you might want to re-read his post again. He says his Father-in-law snapped the photo!!!  ;)

Darn . . . now I am up to 2 mistakes in my entire life.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 24, 2013, 08:45:09 PM

I see you're still afflicted with the Playboy subscription syndrome - the pictures always seem to get in the way in paying proper attention to what were written in the articles, and in this case the post, no?

But yes...the car really is pretty distracting.

Hey, how can I keep up with others who make really snappy replies if I have to take time to read carefully?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on July 24, 2013, 09:30:29 PM
Darn . . . now I am up to 2 mistakes in my entire life.

No that's a minimum of 3 because you can't count either  :o
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on July 25, 2013, 05:32:24 AM
The impression i got when you first came to write your story was about a success story always continuiing. I think that everybody IMHO understands the same. But in fact the divorce's decision had been discussed previous your posts.
I agree that 13 years of an happy marriage is still a success anyway.

Jan i saw all your photos and videos, i think i get the "atmosphere" of which type of family you are. I think you smooth things in your life as sweet are your photos and how  your twins are spending their time. I just hope sincerely that you can get out from feelings with your ex wife. I hope also that you can understand that this link, and you not divorced, can afraid FSU women.

As you have noticed things are not easy now, i would say that they are just different in the cross cultural dating than 10 years before. If i were you i would avoid to invite women at home if you have never met them first.

Enjoy your time in FSU   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ranetka on July 25, 2013, 09:36:29 AM
The impression i got when you first came to write your story was about a success story always continuiing. I think that everybody IMHO understands the same.




Actually, no. His post reminded me of KenC's 10-years-late-trip-report. KenC was also considering divorce at the time. That's why I asked him a question why he was posting. I was right in my guess.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on July 25, 2013, 09:43:15 AM
Likely this is a great example of what I've alluded to many times before. It's the 'IDEA' that gets men to dive into this - 'the chase', if you may, and very little thought is ever put into what lies thereafter.

It's akin to PTSD, I suppose. Men still fighting the war long after its cessation.

What I like about Northcape's story though is the fact he was supportive of his wife's life advancement and her personal achievement during their marriage. So I can't be too critical of this guy at all...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on July 25, 2013, 09:57:45 AM
What I like about Northcape's story though is the fact he was supportive of his wife's life advancement and her personal achievement during their marriage. So I can't be too critical of this guy at all...

I hope I haven't came across as critical of NC. I haven't meant to. Regardless of the divorce it appears that he is taking care (physically) of his family and even the wife for at least as long as she remains in it.

I question though, any woman that would be interested in Northcape, while he is still married, even just to date, that woman would be highly suspect to me. What woman in her "right" mind would get involved with a man that hasn't gotten out of his last marriage? He's carrying way too much baggage to be involved with another IMHO, at least at this juncture, and expect her to be a quality woman
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on July 25, 2013, 11:42:16 AM
...I question though, any woman that would be interested in Northcape, while he is still married, even just to date, that woman would be highly suspect to me. What woman in her "right" mind would get involved with a man that hasn't gotten out of his last marriage? He's carrying way too much baggage to be involved with another IMHO, at least at this juncture, and expect her to be a quality woman...

I concur. Especially the notion mostly spoken of in these fora how FSUWs are not too receptive being fed a man's past GFs, relationships, etc...much less a man who's not only still married, but have his (ex)wife facilitating his new search.

I will however speculate that Norway has got to be in the Top-3 preferred destination for a lot of FSUWs, if not the top choice. Couple this with the fact Northie is a good looking guy and an out and out good guy overall; could in fact sway many-a-wimmen to strongly consider him as being more a viable choice than the usual aged Ariel Castros' that seem to litter the MOB mess halls.

Personally, I'd much rather chill post-divorce and breathe in some fresh air for a while before seeking to tie another knot with anyone. Heck, if I were him - I'd shower myself fully into my two boys' lives and the other aspect of having a squeeze can come and go as the opportunity present themselves.

But, that's just me...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: pokerintherear on July 25, 2013, 12:41:29 PM
I question though, any woman that would be interested in Northcape, while he is still married, even just to date, that woman would be highly suspect to me. What woman in her "right" mind would get involved with a man that hasn't gotten out of his last marriage? He's carrying way too much baggage to be involved with another IMHO, at least at this juncture, and expect her to be a quality woman

Im not making a statement of what kind of man the OP is but I read this before. Not exact words but close to what they were trying to say.

Certain woman would rather share or compete on a personal level for a high quality masculine man than have a emasculated nice guy mangina all to herself.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on July 25, 2013, 01:28:52 PM
Im not making a statement of what kind of man the OP is but I read this before. Not exact words but close to what they were trying to say.

Certain woman would rather share or compete on a personal level for a high quality masculine man than have a emasculated nice guy mangina all to herself.

I suppose that if that is the type woman one seeks then, it's the right way to go about it. That particular type woman wouldn't work for me.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 25, 2013, 04:52:41 PM
Share the man? Yeah, "certain" women would.)))
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 26, 2013, 08:04:16 PM
Where can I sign up to be 'shared' ?

There was a case here in USA maybe 15-20 years back where a wealthy 'society gal' along east coast somewhere, paid some money to husband and wife to 'share' the husband a certain number of days per year or some such.

The guy was an uneducated blue collar worker, but he was pretty good at tennis, and this wealthy gal wanted him mainly for that, but there were other services involved also.

It was actually taken to court I believe because, after some time and after payment had been already made for the coming year, the wife wanted to back out of the deal and maintain full 'custody' of her husband.  The wealthy gal was suing for breach of contract and specific performance.

Anyone else remember that case?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: BillyB on July 27, 2013, 07:36:18 PM
Share the man? Yeah, "certain" women would.)))

Certain? It could be "most" women. If you had a choice between sharing a winner or being in sole possession of a loser, I think you would choose the winner. I can't imagine women dying to make love to homeless men with bad breath.
 
Due to the fact we have men that are in between the winners and losers gives ladies more options. Many ladies will be satisfied to have a normal guy full time instead of sharing an exceptional man.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on July 28, 2013, 02:43:38 AM

Certain? It could be "most" women. If you had a choice between sharing a winner or being in sole possession of a loser, I think you would choose the winner. I can't imagine women dying to make love to homeless men with bad breath.
 
Due to the fact we have men that are in between the winners and losers gives ladies more options. Many ladies will be satisfied to have a normal guy full time instead of sharing an exceptional man.
No way I would share the man.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Fashionista on July 28, 2013, 03:33:58 AM

I agree that 13 years of an happy marriage is still a success anyway.

Happy marriages don't end in divorce. Hence the word "happy". There must have been some years of unhappiness. Or indifference. In fact, indifference would explain very well this bizarroworld romantic story. I guess the house was pretty big and nobody was in anyone's way, perhaps with a few separate entrances. That's happiness.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on July 28, 2013, 05:49:26 AM
Happy marriages don't end in divorce. Hence the word "happy". There must have been some years of unhappiness. Or indifference. In fact, indifference would explain very well this bizarroworld romantic story. I guess the house was pretty big and nobody was in anyone's way, perhaps with a few separate entrances. That's happiness.
I do agree. The level of BOTH satisfaction given all along this marriage is not informed as of course one person is missing here. We also guess who puts some distance with the other. However, in the statisticals for a western country, 13 years is not bad at all, especially in the particular conditions we know.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on July 28, 2013, 08:50:04 AM
No way I would share the man.

Nor would I want to be shared IF  one particular woman was really important to me.  And I would not want to share her with another man. 
 
Thus, Fashionista's explanation is the valid one IMO based on what we know:
 
 
 
... indifference would explain very well this bizarroworld romantic story.

A prolonged state of indifference sounds so unfulfilling.   One wants a companion for the heart, and without a fulfilling companion we look elsewhere.  However, is marriage to someone new the answer.  Or is it repeating the same mistake? 

Maybe the OP and his wife need some marriage therapy to reignite the spark between them.  Maybe therapy would help identify some needed personal changes.
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 28, 2013, 05:37:50 PM

A prolonged state of indifference sounds so unfulfilling.   One wants a companion for the heart, and without a fulfilling companion we look elsewhere.  However, is marriage to someone new the answer.  Or is it repeating the same mistake? 

Maybe the OP and his wife need some marriage therapy to reignite the spark between them.  Maybe therapy would help identify some needed personal changes.

Sounds just like BillyB's advice to Aloe!  8)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on July 28, 2013, 07:28:28 PM

Sounds just like BillyB's advice to Aloe!  8)

Any marriage in trouble should consider some form of counseling. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: BillyB on August 03, 2013, 11:19:20 PM

Any marriage in trouble should consider some form of counseling.


Nobody needs to be ashamed to get help for something as important as saving their marriage.


Sounds just like BillyB's advice to Aloe!  8)



Not exactly since you're implying I recommend a counselor at the first sign of marital problems. Years ago when Aloe's marriage was in trouble and I figured her husband was too immature to take the lead, I recommended she make changes to herself to improve and hopefully her husband would follow. Only when I determined both parties could not fix their problems, I recommended an outside party.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on August 04, 2013, 03:52:07 AM
Lena --- counseling......... haha x8
Me ----- counseling......... haha x10
-
And what is a happy marriage?
Just all of those not ending in a divorce,,,,, flawed logic, no?
By the same logic, a divorce has to be an unhappy marriage,,, yes?
-
I'm sitting here in my living room next to Lena.
We have been alone in the house these last days,,
since our boys aren't flying home from Ukraine before tomorrow afternoon.
Although most of the conversation has been about her plans for redecorating her new apartment,
she has also listened with great interest to my story about the search for a new wife in her home country.
Even though we decided to divorce almost a year ago, we are still able to find enjoyment in being together.
If it was a mistake for us to marry I would be happy to repeat that mistake,,,, best decision I ever made.
Looking back we have had some really nice years together, but some things in our lives just changed,,,,,,
-
Getting into my boys life, well I'm already close to being their brother more than their father...
-
Also I don't know who is out of touch with reality, me and the women I have met with, or some of those commenting here??
In writing and when meeting I have openly explained exactly the truth about my life with Lena and the forthcoming separation and divorce.
And these women understood it all perfectly well after having all of their questions honestly answered.
As far as I could tell they would also be happy to find a friend in Lena if possible.
Exactly what happened this afternoon when my Lady from Kiev chatted with Lena on the phone for almost an hour.

Some statistics from my 24 days in Ukraine
After writing a large amount of precisely targeted letters during the past months,
I have been driving a total distance of almost 10.000 km / 6.200 miles
to cities all over Ukraine to meet with all the women I found interesting.
All of these women fit inside a very narrow range of age, height, weight and education.
They were all slim, attractive, beautiful 8-10 and had a single child aged from 5 - 15
All of them claimed to have higher education, most of them having either PhD / master / bachelor degrees.
among them, one doctor, two lawyers, one scientist, one architect and many in high level management.
Four of them arrived at the meeting in their own car.
One of the lawyers drove 350 km out of Kiev on her own to be able to meet with me.
English level was from fluent to none, I had my doubts about this as my Russian is below basic.
I carried with me two iPhones with google voice translating and Kivy Star internet in one of them.
In addition I had a high speed CDMA modem with prepaid internet connected to my laptop.
So even if the WiFi in the chosen restaurant was failing I was still covered. 
A good internet connection was for many reasons an absolute requirement for my strategy.

The failed Meetings:
One didn't show up (the one I told about earlier in Kharkov)
One canceled on the day of the meeting.
Two rescheduled into days not available for me because of other meetings.
Eight was canceled by me, among them two favorites, because of me being "weak" and falling in love with a Lady from Kiev in the last days.

The Meetings:
I was able to meet with a total of 14 women aged from 32 to 36 that I had met with on various internet dating sites.
At Kherson marriage agency, I met with an additional four ladies aged from 30 to 41 that they suggested for me.
I knew it from 14 years earlier that I hate having an interpreter in between,,,, so it was a waste of time except for one.
This Kherson lady at age 38 with good English was very nice and of course without interpreter.
We met a second time for a full day, but since she had been with the agency for six years I figured she would never marry and moved on.
Those I had been writing one or more / many letters with:
Two were total failures with a dislike from both sides, (also limited conversation ahead)
One had in my opinion less than honest intentions, unfortunately I didn't listen to my instant intuition and wasted two days with her.
One stayed with me for a full day of interesting conversation even if we both understood immediately that there was no connection.
Out of the remaining I met with four of them twice or more, and there were also three more that I would have liked to meet again.
These seven women were all very attractive as a potensial wife for me, and I would have loved to spend more time with them.
They were incredibly nice and pleasant personalities for me to be with, and each of them made it very difficult for me to continue the search.
Sometimes we continued our meeting into the night till they had to leave for work in the early morning.
There was also an immediate strong physical attraction from both sides with two out of these seven women.
Even if I had promised to myself not to fall in love during the search I couldn't help it.
I canceled the remaining list and lived together with my Lady from Kiev in her flat for the last five days of my trip.

Will try to write a comprehensive summary of my strategy and planning later.
From what I had read here and in other forums I was expecting it to be difficult finding a suitable wife in Ukraine again.
All in all the results from this trip was so far above expectations I still feel overwhelmed by all the conflicting feelings inside me.
The only letdown being unable to meet with all of those I had extensive writings with and the bad feelings for those I had to disappoint.
On the upside some of the women have expressed interest in meeting with me again, if I fail with my present choice in the coming year.

Photos will follow when time allows.....
Jan
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on August 04, 2013, 07:01:16 AM


And what is a happy marriage?
Just all of those not ending in a divorce,,,,, flawed logic, no?
By the same logic, a divorce has to be an unhappy marriage,,, yes?

Looking back we have had some really nice years together, but some things in our lives just changed,,,,,,

I am an old-timer who has seen a lot in life.  I believe what you say about you and your wife.  So this post is not in disagreement with your situation.  In fact, I have seen something similar with a business partner, and I will tell his story. 
 
Before that, I wish to make an observation about my friends and associates.    Being an old-timer, I have many long-time friends in their 60s and now 70s from business, my university fraternity and other opportunities.  I have seen their lives unfold as well as their marriages.  What I find unusual is that more than 67% of them are still with their first wife.  Jan, you say you and your wife are happy.   I attest that these many men still married to their first wife are very happy.   So are their wives.   
 
Perhaps these are just naturally happy men, optimistic and kind and generous.  This would explain why I maintained my friendship with them over 3-4 decades; after all, who wants to be friends with a bitter grump?!   
 
The following is a key point.  All of these marriages went though changes, yet all adjusted together.  Is it too late to keep your marriage?  Seemingly that would be the goal considering your self-expressed state of happiness.
 
Now my story about a business partner whose story is similar to yours.    Nearing retirement he and his wife decided to divorce after nearly 30 years of happy marriage.    They wanted to stay together, but thought it best to separate.  Their divorce was so amicable that they negotiated terms without using an attorney.  They retained an attorney only at the end just to memorialize legally  their agreement (used the same attorney for a total bill of $500).  Years later, they still call each other and say "Love you" when hanging up.
 
As with you, things had changed.  At retirement he wanted to live full-time on a farm, and she wanted to stay in the large city.   Their two children had grown into adulthood, fully employed in their own career paths.
 
In summary, the two grew apart, and that happens frequently.  Maybe they were the best for each other in their child rearing and money making stages.   If they had stayed together, inevitably there would have been conflicts.
 
He now has a younger girlfriend who travels with him to wilderness areas without flush toilets, something his wife would have refused.  He lives on his large farm alone other than his cows and help.   He is very happy being a steward of the land. 
 
A critical point was at the tine of divorce they settled the division of assets without getting attorneys involved.  It not only saved a large legal bill, it kept their relationship amicable.
 
Jan, I hope your deliberations are clear such that you make the best decision.  If the decision is a new wife, I hope you find a new woman with whom both of you will be very happy over the decades in front of you.  I hope your children will be happy as well and go mostly unaffected by your divorce. 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on August 04, 2013, 08:21:32 AM
Lena --- counseling......... haha x8
Me ----- counseling......... haha x10...
Photos will follow when time allows.....
Jan

Good, bad or indifferent I'm in more ways a lot like you (or your perspective). I maintained a caring relationships with women I've had meaningful, intimate and loving relationships with in the past. I am godfather to two kids from an ex-GF who I hold very dear in my heart. My wife not only understands, but feels secure with me even more after she met my ex and her husband.
 
When she and I broke up, I signed for her apartment lease, furnished it, gave her emotional and financial support until she's able to get her certification, and today, she's an accomplished interior decorator in the west side. She tells me her life's stability, financially and emotionally, was in great measure because of my continued care even after our thrill was gone.
 

Not too many men can tell you they can remain civil and caring for the women they choose not to be with, or aren't with any longer. This is definitely something you should be proud of.

The only place we're different, from what I can see is, I can never go back to Russia/FSU/MOB if something ever happens with my marriage. I'm very content and more than satisfied with our local native talent. I've lived far more than a full life anyway, and had gotten far more than my share so I breathe no insecurity if I find myself 'single' as I can never be lonely being alone.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on August 04, 2013, 10:06:32 AM

The Meetings:
I was able to meet with a total of 14 women aged from 32 to 36 that I had met with on various internet dating sites.
At Kherson marriage agency, I met with an additional four ladies aged from 30 to 41 that they suggested for me.
I knew it from 14 years earlier that I hate having an interpreter in between,,,, so it was a waste of time except for one.
This Kherson lady at age 38 with good English was very nice and of course without interpreter.
We met a second time for a full day, but since she had been with the agency for six years I figured she would never marry and moved on.
Those I had been writing one or more / many letters with:
Two were total failures with a dislike from both sides, (also limited conversation ahead)
One had in my opinion less than honest intentions, unfortunately I didn't listen to my instant intuition and wasted two days with her.
One stayed with me for a full day of interesting conversation even if we both understood immediately that there was no connection.
Out of the remaining I met with four of them twice or more, and there were also three more that I would have liked to meet again.
These seven women were all very attractive as a potensial wife for me, and I would have loved to spend more time with them.
They were incredibly nice and pleasant personalities for me to be with, and each of them made it very difficult for me to continue the search.
Sometimes we continued our meeting into the night till they had to leave for work in the early morning.
There was also an immediate strong physical attraction from both sides with two out of these seven women.
Even if I had promised to myself not to fall in love during the search I couldn't help it.
I canceled the remaining list and lived together with my Lady from Kiev in her flat for the last five days of my trip.

Will try to write a comprehensive summary of my strategy and planning later.

Very good planning and execution.  You have my congratulations on a job well done . . . even if it doesn't work out with the gal you chose.

Seems like you followed the outline of "Pursuing FSUW 101" in  the Starting Out section, even if you never read about it there.

Best to you, your existing family, and your newly emerging family!!  :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on August 18, 2013, 12:45:25 AM


Getting into my boys life, well I'm already close to being their brother more than their father...-
Also I don't know who is out of touch with reality, me and the women I have met with, or some of those commenting here??
In writing and when meeting I have openly explained exactly the truth about my life with Lena and the forthcoming separation and divorce.
And these women understood it all perfectly well after having all of their questions honestly answered.
As far as I could tell they would also be happy to find a friend in Lena if possible.
Exactly what happened this afternoon when my Lady from Kiev chatted with Lena on the phone for almost an hour.


You are not your sons' 58 year old brother.  You are their father.  As a father, your role is different.  Your boys have not yet even reached puberty.  You should be nurturing and protecting them, putting their needs ahead of your need for a wife.

You have not yet even told your boys about destroying their family, and, without Mama having even moved from the matrimonial home, you are already on a quest to build a new family, likely, complete with a step sibling. 

I find your attitude toward this life altering event in your children's lives incredibly selfish.  Have you considered the impact telling your children of your split will have on them before foisting a new woman on them and into their lives?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: PaulK on August 18, 2013, 04:24:32 AM
You are not your sons' 58 year old brother.  You are their father.  As a father, your role is different.  Your boys have not yet even reached puberty.  You should be nurturing and protecting them, putting their needs ahead of your need for a wife.

You have not yet even told your boys about destroying their family, and, without Mama having even moved from the matrimonial home, you are already on a quest to build a new family, likely, complete with a step sibling. 

I find your attitude toward this life altering event in your children's lives incredibly selfish.  Have you considered the impact telling your children of your split will have on them before foisting a new woman on them and into their lives?

I wish there was a "Like" button here.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mendeleyev on August 18, 2013, 07:54:59 AM
Quote
I wish there was a "Like" button here.

Exactly.

I've read thru this mess, shook my head in disbelief, and agree 10,000 percent with Bo's comments.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on August 18, 2013, 10:01:39 AM
After just seeing the posts by Boe and Mendy; I must backtrack a little on my post just before Boe's.

I must admit I didn't keep up with the OPs entire story, and missed any mention of still being married, the children not knowing of coming split, etc.

I just meant to comment on his planning and carry through of a WMVM . . . but I should not have left the impression that I agreed with his timing of such.    :-[ :(   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on August 18, 2013, 11:37:30 AM


You have not yet even told your boys about destroying their family, and, without Mama having even moved from the matrimonial home, you are already on a quest to build a new family, likely, complete with a step sibling. 

I find your attitude toward this life altering event in your children's lives incredibly selfish.

Boethius, your point is so obvious.  And it contradicts the state of bliss he claims to enjoy with his wife. 
 
There must be much more to the story than he reveals.  We can only guess, and I have no clue.  Maybe my joke is true about his marrying his wife's sister merely to facilitate her immigration. 
 
Aloe's husband said he would divorce Aloe if she did not vacuum or get a tan.  Northkape's wife did look pale in the photo. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on August 18, 2013, 12:26:32 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that this is a 'retribution' marriage?  She's leaving me so I am gonna show her how good I can have it without her?  Oh and she says 'do your worst, honey, I'll even help you.' 

Somewhere there is an ill though out idea that the boys will be better with continuity.  Having gone through a marital split, with children, it simply doesn't work that way.  When my marriage was breaking up, we actually went to counselling as a family so the kids could work out the fact that the family unit was no longer intact.  To this day, neither my ex wife or I speak of anything other than affection for the other in front of our children. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Jumper on August 18, 2013, 02:43:48 PM
Where can I sign up to be 'shared' ?

There was a case here in USA maybe 15-20 years back where a wealthy 'society gal' along east coast somewhere, paid some money to husband and wife to 'share' the husband a certain number of days per year or some such.

The guy was an uneducated blue collar worker, but he was pretty good at tennis, and this wealthy gal wanted him mainly for that, but there were other services involved also.

It was actually taken to court I believe because, after some time and after payment had been already made for the coming year, the wife wanted to back out of the deal and maintain full 'custody' of her husband.  The wealthy gal was suing for breach of contract and specific performance.

Anyone else remember that case?


yeah, by court  order I had to fulfill the contracts stipulations.




( i really thought vinny would answer this one)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on August 27, 2013, 10:19:07 AM

 
Jan, I hope your deliberations are clear such that you make the best decision.  If the decision is a new wife, I hope you find a new woman with whom both of you will be very happy over the decades in front of you.  I hope your children will be happy as well and go mostly unaffected by your divorce. 
 
Thanks Gator
Yes, finding what I consider to be the right woman.....
Might take some time to sort her out from the herd
And if I'm able to keep everything civilized and smooth between me and Lena as we have planned,
the change in family life for me and my boys will be slow and gradual over the next year or so before finally remarrying.

Not too many men can tell you they can remain civil and caring for the women they choose not to be with, or aren't with any longer. This is definitely something you should be proud of.
Thanks,, I never had any bad relationships with women GQ,,,
and I definitely wouldn't want to start one with the mother of my sons.

Very good planning and execution.  You have my congratulations on a job well done . . . even if it doesn't work out with the gal you chose.
Seems like you followed the outline of "Pursuing FSUW 101" in  the Starting Out section, even if you never read about it there.
Best to you, your existing family, and your newly emerging family!!
Thanks,,,, Well, I have to admit never reading it ML
But of course it's the logical way to proceed with a search
And I think you will be amazed by my setup to monitor interests in the prospects...
More details later.

As of today Lena is still living together with us,
even though she got the keys for her apartment 1st of August.
She wants to move, and I have no objections, but,,,
Before moving she wants to redecorate all of her apartment, and again it takes time.....
Yes, you can only guess who is the trusted one to be in charge of the process.

And we finally got the separation papers sent at the beginning of the month.
I can't marry again before a year after the date they are accepted.
But they aren't yet verified because of some missing documentation from Lena.
And she will not send it till after she has moved.

Our relationship is rather edgy at the moment because of this ongoing conflict.
She wants me to prioritize my part of the redecoration,
so she can move and send the missing documents.
I want her to move to have the papers accepted.
At the same time she isn't keeping up with her part of the deal,,,
helping me with some paper work related to my business.
And I'm short on available time now that the school for my boys has started again.
Most probably it will be another month or two before she finally leaves.

And I really need to go back to Ukraine to sort out whom to continue writing with.
Following is a photo from the one I got attached to during my stay in Kiev last month.
Jan

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R220.jpg)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on August 28, 2013, 02:09:59 AM
Nice job.
Keep continuing to post here.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 02, 2013, 08:24:08 AM
Well,,,,  I arrived in Ukraine this Friday evening for the third trip to Ukraine this year...
-
After a lot of trouble again, with the car rental company, I was arriving in the center of Kiev at approx. 17 in the evening.
Just in time for a shave and change of clothes at the toilet of a gas station, before picking up Kiev33 after work at 18.00 outside her office.
Kiev33 was only two weeks old in my prospect list, with a couple of mails and a Skype session showcasing her very good English.
When entering my car, she greeted me with a warm smile and a somewhat fishy handshake, looking me directly into the eyes....
Apparently liking what she saw,, as her eyes stays focused when I welcomed her with a short phrase.
-
Kiev33 had a single, terrible photo on her profile but looked much better on her crappy web camera.
In my car however, I had an elegantly dressed, stunning beauty with a friendly and inviting attitude towards me.
We were supposed to go to a small coffee shop she was familiar with, for a cup of coffee and a little chat together,
but not being a car driver herself she couldn't remember the correct route, so we got a little lost.
We were so busy talking, that it was another half an hour of aimless driving before we stopped in front of a random restaurant.
Not only was Kiev33 beautiful, and borderline sexily dressed in such a way that it was difficult to keep my eyes politely focused on her smile, 
she turned out to also be a great conversationist that was well read and knowledgable in many topics of common interest between us.
-
Sorry,, I was interrupted just now by a totally unknown Kharkiv36 that want's to meet with me now, before my business meeting with a young software developer in one and a half hour here in Kharkov....
Will update when time allows...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 02, 2013, 04:03:29 PM
Then todays meetings are done with, and I can return to a few more lines about Friday evening..
While I wait for the snowing and all traffic on roads to end....
Roads are slippery as a skating rink and my rental car has summer tires,
so I have decided to drive to Dniepropetrovsk during the night when there is close to zero traffic.
-
The ice-cream on my French apple pie had long since melted when I got around to taste the first bit of it.
Me and Kiev33 got entangled in such a long winded conversation,
that I never even got the opportunity to show her the photos and videos I had prepared for her on my laptop.
Our allotted time for the evening was done with as if someone had advanced the clock without us noticing it.
She had to pick up her daughter at half past nine,, not to be argued at all.
Before getting out of the car to open the door for her, I gave her light kiss on the cheek,
and then one of the nicely wrapped perfume bottles Lena had chosen for my prospects this summer.
Kiev33 unwrapped with a big smile, returning the kiss on the cheek,,,,
if she was telling the truth it was her favorite perfume.
-
When car began moving I picked up the phone and called Kiev32, the beauty on the photo from the summer trip above,,,
I spent every minute of five days and night together with her at that time,
but dropped her a few weeks after returning back home,,, not completely however.
We have been in touch regularly by phone and short messages, about our progress with finding a new partner.
She knew I was coming to Kiev and I had to promise to visit her,, a very difficult decision to make,,
as I knew exactly what would happen as soon as she opened the door.
It was just as if I had left her the day before, my heart suddenly turning into red pudding and I was lost.
After a 48 hour trip on pink clouds we were taken back to earth with the help of another of our silly arguments about nothing.
I saw an opportunity to save the rest of my trip, and asked her if she would be more comfortable without me in her home....
Wrapping up my suitcase in a minute and leaving without even kissing her goodbye,,, before she was able to change her mind.
After a little driving and several calls from Kiev32 that I didn't answer, I stopped the car for writing a few necessary mails,
I was desperate to catch up with my broken schedule and decided to drive to Kharkov during the night. 
More to come when I have time available....
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 02, 2013, 04:29:11 PM
Northkape,
 
You tell an interesting story.  Thanks, and keep it up please.
 
Do I understand correctly?  You  stayed the night at Kiev32's flat; however you were dating Kiev33 earlier that evening.    Do you need a wheelbarrow to carry your big testicles when you walk?  Actually I can top that.  One of my golfing friends shagged another woman while on his honeymoon. 
 
And two days later after enjoying much red pudding(?) you had an argument with Kiev32 (something the two of you do a lot) and moved out.  I like the "moving out" part as life is too short to spend much of it in argument. 
 
Another point, I do not believe I ever greeted a RW for the first time with a handshake.  In America some women shake hands; however, I never extend my hand first. 
 
And what is with the chin kisses?  I understand cheek kisses and air kisses, but not chin kisses.  Women are usually much shorter than me and a chin kiss would require some awkward contortion.  And if you are that close to her lips, why not a quick gentle kiss on the lips?   I am still learning from other cultures.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: lonedrake on December 02, 2013, 05:15:13 PM
Quote
but dropped her a few weeks after returning back home,,, not completely however.


 Yes,,,,you never know when a date leaves you early.....it is sooooo nice to have a back-up lay...just in case.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on December 02, 2013, 07:36:33 PM

And what is with the chin kisses?

Yeah Gator . . . as in where did you get this chin idea.  Not in his posting . . . unless he modified before I read.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 02, 2013, 08:34:03 PM
Thanks for correcting the "cheek" part Gator, just a mixup of languages...
And I agree somewhat about the handshake also,,
just that I have had a lot of women among customers in my life at home, so it's the natural way for me to greet a woman.

And no, Kiev32 isn't a backup,, she is a great woman that I might end up marrying if nothing very special gets a foot into the door opening.
She is totally independent, well educated and able to learn by herself, ambitious, strong and a little too much woman at the same time.
As a mother "stand-in" for my boys she will do very well, I admire the way she has raised her own little boy on her own.
A joy to be around at almost all times, happy and loving her life, even as rough and demanding life can be for a single mother in Ukraine.
But I prefer those with a brain that is wired in a somewhat rational and logical pattern, rather than the "woman logic" pattern.
She lied about smoking in her profile and was able to hide it for two full days,,, but it isn't important at all,
if I love her enough, I should just accept it, and believe her when she promise to quit at some point in the future.
I might have to just accept that, along with several other "important for me" bad traits that she see no reason to try to change.

Actually we have had few arguments, and they aren't about nothing seen from her side,
it's just that she fails to understand that I might choose to marry another woman instead of her, if she is so stubborn about her views.

It's now, half past five in the morning here in Dniepropetrovsk, and I will try to slumber off a little just sitting here in the car,,
More about the evening i in Kharkov later
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 02, 2013, 09:36:13 PM
Thanks for correcting the "cheek" part Gator, just a mixup of languages...

 :) :) :) :)   Your English was superb elsewhere.  Glad to know you meant cheek.  I was thinking about kissing my wife on her chin.


Quote
And no, Kiev32 isn't a backup,, she is a great woman that I might end up marrying if nothing very special gets a foot into the door opening.
She is totally independent, well educated and able to learn by herself, ambitious, strong and a little too much woman at the same time.
As a mother "stand-in" for my boys she will do very well, I admire the way she has raised her own little boy on her own.
A joy to be around at almost all times, happy and loving her life, even as rough and demanding life can be for a single mother in Ukraine.
But I prefer those with a brain that is wired in a somewhat rational and logical pattern, rather than the "woman logic" pattern.

That's no fun.  A little argument is good if not repeating the same old argument.  Then when both of you compromise, the makeup sex is very good.  However, if she never compromises, I would proceed very carefully.
Quote
she lied about smoking in her profile and was able to hide it for two full
days,,,

 
So you did not kiss passionately for two days.    :D   
 
Let me guess, based on how you described this woman, she said it was your fault that she started smoking again.  You made her nervous.   :)
 
 
Quote
but it isn't important at all, if I love her enough, I should just accept it, and believe her when she promise to quit at some point in the future.

It would be important to me.  I would want to see her deliver her promise to stop smoking.

Quote
    It's now, half past five in the morning here in Dniepropetrovsk, and I will try to slumber off a little just sitting here in the car,,     

Be careful please.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on December 03, 2013, 09:41:03 PM
. . . I might end up marrying if nothing very special gets a foot into the door opening.
if I love her enough, I should just accept it, and believe her when she promise to quit at some point in the future.
I might have to just accept that, along with several other "important for me" bad traits that she see no reason to try to change.

Please don't do this!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: JayH on December 03, 2013, 10:19:31 PM

After a lot of trouble again, with the car rental company, I was arriving in the center of Kiev at approx. 17 in the evening.
Just in time for a shave and change of clothes at the toilet of a gas station, before picking up Kiev33 after work at 18.00 outside her office.


Jan which car rental company was/is it? You say "trouble again"-- what was previous problems and what is the trouble this time?
Was the tyre issue discussed ( non winter tyres)- Was there any option?

I try and avoid driving at night unless I already know the road reasonably well. The biggest and worst accidents I have seen have involved trucks at night  .
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on December 04, 2013, 01:26:40 AM
North
You perform nice.
Heart has some reasons that the logic can disapprove but emotions are the ones who make you alive.
You have your own morale and your own way.
It is also true that flirting with genuine FSU women is like sleeping in the paradise, all is so rose that you want it to never stop.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 05, 2013, 02:44:19 AM
ML
..... "if I love her enough, I should just accept it" ..... those are her words and her opinion,, I have a somewhat different viewpoint....

JayH
To my surprise it has winter tires,, I go look before writing this,,, but some "NeverHeardAbout" China crap...

This time rented through my airline as it was an easy option with nothing to fill in, except for choosing a car.
And I trusted them in connecting with quality partners.......?

My online confirmation said Terminal F.....????
Arriving at the info-desk in new terminal D, I ask the Lady, what rental can possibly be in F??
She shakes her head,, no,no,no it's in B........ Why does it say F...... 10 min later off the third phone, it's in F.
Shuttle bus drops me in front of B, as F is closed off....
Not dressed for outdoor, I button up and walks the 500 meters while a mix of rain and snow hits my face straight on.
Well F is actually closed,,, the police officer shakes his head and points at B, only 500 meters away, with the snow attacking from behind instead.
In B all rental desks are closed except for Hertz,,,,
Admitting that I'm not a Hertz customer this time, it takes a lot of pleading her with sweet words,
before miss beautiful 25 stops doing her nails and looks at me with a warm smile.
She looks at my reservation and calls each and every phone number in there at least twice before returning to her nails.
"shuttling" back to D,,, a new man at info-desk shakes his head after trying to get through on those same phone numbers.

AHHHH,,,, coming in from the side with broken English,
this problema is every day.... there side door behind left side terminal F, press hard, try all doors, after 5 you can it see....

After "shuttling",,,,, the Taxi driver refuse to go the 500 meters as F is closed and secure area, no permit...
My shoes are now soaked, but I found all 5 doors and the little window with a young man inside,
admitting with a smile, that things are never easy in Ukraine..........
When finished signing all the papers, we walk outdoor again to the gate of the secure area F.
The police officer opens the door and takes all documents, including my passport and drivers license.
Me and the young rental man (that is appropriately dressed) are left outside for a nice chat about how funny this is.
After only 10 minutes, the officer is already done with scrutinizing our documents,,,,
I can leave the airport, with shoes and socks taken off my ice cold feets,,,, still smiling, as I know what is waiting for me.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 05, 2013, 03:56:59 AM
Yes, Pat...
A mix of heaven and hell,,,,,,,, heaven dating,,, hell being that I can only choose one......
-
Let's get back to that evening in Kharkov...
First and foremost I'm going there to meet with a young software developer named Vadim.
We have been Skyping / writing about an interesting project, and I wanted to meet with him before proceeding.
-
Among my woman prospects there, I have long time Kharkov32, since before the summer,
She responded to my intro-letter because she needed a mans shoulder to cry on at that time.
Having gone on an exotic Thailand holiday, with an European man that she was deeply in love with, during the winter,
she was now being dumped in favor of another young woman without a child.
I never considered her seriously, but she is a nice woman with an open and friendly personality.
Many times when working late in my shop, I would put on my headset and talk with her while working.
Not anorexia, but very slim with the right curves like a sexy "late teen" girl, good looking, but not beautiful.
-
more later....
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 05, 2013, 07:01:24 AM
Since I was driving here, to Kharkov during the previous night, I have no place to stay except for my car at the moment.
If I'm staying for the next night, I'm welcome to stay with Kharkov32, but I'm not there yet....
-
My meeting with Vadim is at 18.30 close to the center....
Then three hours before this, I get a mail from a very nice Kharkov36, that has responded to my profile on one of the sites..
I respond immediately, telling her that I'm in Kharkov at the moment, suggesting a quick meeting.
A couple of minutes later I have her on the phone, and we are chatting nicely for the next ten minutes....
We agree on meeting at the same place I will meet with Vadim, as soon as we are able to get there..
I just need to send her a SMS with the address....
Just perfect,, I write her a nice message with the address and a description about where I will be waiting for her.
Then Murphy comes along,,,, throwing sand into it,,,,
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 09, 2013, 05:38:04 AM
As it was, I had been talking too much on the phone without checking remaining credit.
So my SMS to Kharkov36 (with address for meeting) stopped halfway in transferring......
It took all of the next 25 minutes to find a place with calling cards,, updating credit,, and then resending the SMS..
But I get no answer on her phone for the next 15 minutes,,, she was on her way home already.
-
Only two minutes before arriving to meet with Kharkov32,, one of my phone calls, and I answer without looking,, thinking it is her.
But it isn’t,, it’s Kirhovorad32, one of my favorites from the summer that I have never met with.
She loves talking on the phone,, and starts discussing our meeting the next day.
In front of me to the right, on the opposite corner, I see Kharkov32 standing in a long white coat protecting her from the blowing snow.
I turn left instead of right,  to avoid hanging up on Kirhovorad32.
Twenty minutes later after a little argument with my navigator I am back to pick up Kharkov32.
I am afraid, that she will no longer be standing there in the freezing snowdrift, and she isn’t.
After a few attempts, I get her on the phone, she is at home a few blocks away.
Inside the restaurant I help her take off the long white coat,,,
Not only does she have the figure of a late teen, she is dressed like one also.
Tight, worn out jeans with a low midline, and a matching top that shows her naked flat belly.
Without seeing her face, you could easily mistake her for being twenty.
As expected from our Skype talks, she is a friendly young woman that enjoys meeting with me.
Always smiling, but for my taste, a little too shy and somewhat immature in her behavior.
She has to leave for home when the restaurant closes at midnight.
Opening the door for her, I let her out of my car with a light kiss on her cheek.
She wants to see me again, and I tell her I will be back in Kharkov within a month or two.
-
Awakening from the slumbering in my car, on this beautiful sunny morning outside Dniepropetrovsk,
I start looking through my schedule for the remaining six days of my ten day trip.
-
I have in front of me,, three very beautiful women: Dniepropetrovsk36,, Kirhovorad32,, and Zaporozhye32
On top of that, the lovely Kiev33 wants to meet with me again, in Kiev at the end of the week.
And my love from the summer trip, Kiev32 is calling me constantly every evening.
Since I don’t want to answer her about meeting with other women, and long arguments on the phone,
I have decided not to answer her calls, before I go to visit her on the last one of my remaining days, before going home.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on December 09, 2013, 03:34:27 PM
Interesting names these gals have.  I actually  never met any who were named after cities!!   8)

But I must say, I am pretty lost in trying to figure out where you  are at any given point, and how you get from place to place, etc.  Yes, I know you are driving a car.

I think others have written about the perils of spending most of the trip traveling from here to there; any relevance here?
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: JayH on December 09, 2013, 04:09:17 PM
Interesting names these gals have.  I actually  never met any who were named after cities!!   8)

But I must say, I am pretty lost in trying to figure out where you  are at any given point, and how you get from place to place, etc.  Yes, I know you are driving a car.

I think others have written about the perils of spending most of the trip traveling from here to there; any relevance here?
ML-- I think I have cracked his code !! City & age to identify -avoids confusion in ones mind !!
Point on travelling-- driving yourself  absolutely minimises travel times between cities -particularly  as little time is lost waiting around etc.  What is an all day exercise on public system can be less than half a day. I have often driven to have lunch meeting  in a city a up to 3 hours ( maybe up to 200kms) and back in the same day.It gives much greater flexibility. When in contact--being able to say-- lets have breakfast/lunch/dinner /a coffee now/ today-now etc very quickly sorts out who really wants to meet etc
While driving  yourself   is not for everyone -- for me it is much more convenient and normal way to live.Not wishing to harp on previous point too much !! -- Not being tied to apartment in one place sort of fits with this--I can leave at breakfast and be somewhere else the same day-- and still have time to have made several meetings.
That all presumes a lot warmer weather than is there today!!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Chicagoguy on December 09, 2013, 07:57:17 PM
As for Russia, the distances and roads pretty much preclude driving.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 10, 2013, 09:45:28 AM
ML
As you have already figured out earlier, I am a man trying to solve this riddle with "a system of logic"

I was able to find a truly great woman with the help of "Internet dating"  more than 13 years ago.
She is still in many ways "my best friend",,,
and we are still living together even though we decided to divorce more than a year ago.

But I did an endless amount of mistakes at that time, wasting the most of two years with nothing to show for it.
Because I didn't know and understand enough to make a plan and execute it systematically.
Also finding a FSU wife on the Internet then in 1998,
was something very different from the tremendous amount of women and "tools" available today.

In the 10 days behind me, I followed a plan that was well organized in every detail before leaving.
To avoid loosing and wasting time I arranged for meeting with more women than it was possible to do.
But very flexible, with approximate arrival time for each of the women to adjust to, until a few hours ahead of meeting.
And a strong focus on meeting all of my favorites more than once, if possible and wanted by both parties.

In addition, I had three business meetings in Kiev, Kharkov and Dniepropetrovsk to slide in between the dating.
Unfortunately these business meetings were very late in the day also, and very disturbing for my dating plan.

Looking back at it now when at home, it was a very productive trip with results far above my expectations.
Yes, there was a lot of driving, more than 3000 km / 1900 miles,
with very little time for eating or sleeping as I was driving mostly at night.
(meetings with my favorites usually ended after midnight)
Lack of sleep was a problem at the end, as I never had more than two-three hours available for sleeping per night.

As it looks now I am ending my search, and continuing dating with four of these women.
They are all interested in going forward with more meetings, before a decision about marrying can be made.

Just like JayH..
In my opinion using a car beats anything, if you are really looking for "the most suitable" woman within a given timeframe.

That goes for Russia also, you could easily reach the entire St.Peterstburg to Moskva area,,,
with a tremendous amount of women available in a similar ten day trip with a car.
I did exactly that area by car in the same way, more than 14 years ago, but not as successfully as today.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 10, 2013, 09:53:06 AM
Northkape-

There certainly is nothing wrong with being meticulous. In fact, it's quite admirable.

Just curious though as you seem to expend this much effort, time and money searching for someone compatible with you, wouldn't it be more prudent to find one in your country, or are you also processing them along with your Ukraine search?

If not, why not?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 11, 2013, 11:00:06 AM
Just wondering GQ,,

Why you would think it advisable, to search in my home country at all.
Ukraine has 10 times the population of Norway.
And probably a multiple of 10 times, the number of women in their thirties with a single child looking for a man to marry.
Finding her in Norway is a much larger problem than the additional work of integrating a foreign woman here.

Yes, I did look, but not seriously,, meaning no writing to anyone at all.
I just considered it a waste of time.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 11, 2013, 01:08:13 PM
I'm standing in front of the door to their apartment in Dnieprozherzhinsk,, ringing the bell.
What strange twists of fate, I met them here 13 years ago, when I came to marry their only daughter.
Now I'm coming here to live together with them, while searching for another young woman to marry.
-
They open the door smiling, and welcoming me in, my mother in law is as always, very happy to see me again.
My favorite Ukraine dish is already served on the table, and waiting for me,
I'm almost feeling ashamed for not being able to say more of a thank you than "bolsjoye spasiba"
-
After dinner I tell them that I will drive to a meeting in Dniepropetrovsk, and return sometimes after midnight.
-
Dniepropetrovsk36 is supposed to meet with me at the French Carousel in the European Square at 19.00
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ade on December 11, 2013, 02:05:21 PM
Just wondering GQ,,

Why you would think it advisable, to search in my home country at all.
Ukraine has 10 times the population of Norway.
And probably a multiple of 10 times, the number of women in their thirties with a single child looking for a man to marry.
Finding her in Norway is a much larger problem than the additional work of integrating a foreign woman here.

Yes, I did look, but not seriously,, meaning no writing to anyone at all.
I just considered it a waste of time.

Of course, few, if any, Norwegian women in their thirties would be interested in a man old enough to be their father. And those that would be, would be because of daddy issues or desperation.

But I did know a Norwegian woman in her thirties who was with a fifty year old man - he was my ex-Father in law and she his common law wife. She was very overweight (though she had a bright and sunny personality) and he was a dour old bugger. She eventually cheated on him, he found out but accepted the humiliation of her ongoing affair as the alternative was to be alone in his dotage.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 11, 2013, 02:24:21 PM
Just wondering GQ,,

Why you would think it advisable, to search in my home country at all.
Ukraine has 10 times the population of Norway.
And probably a multiple of 10 times, the number of women in their thirties with a single child looking for a man to marry.
Finding her in Norway is a much larger problem than the additional work of integrating a foreign woman here....

Curiosity, not advice. I was simply curious.

For one, I do fancy the Nordic features. The Norwegian women I've had the opportunity of meeting here in LA were absolutely gorgeous. You posted pictures of your past flames which supports my sentiment. John Lennon, too for that matter.

Moreover, it fascinates me how much time is expended searching for someone 'compatible' when one would think someone in your own society and culture would already be 'more' compatible with you since the woman would no longer have any adjustment/acclimation/language issues to deal with.

OK, the age difference would likely be a factor based on your personal preference, so that's a whole other matter altogether.

As for population, yeah, I get that. But you're assuming ALL of Ukraine's single female population are open for international marriages. I happen to disagree. If I am right about that, then what you said is illogical. Also, I just surfed a Norway personal and it seems there are in fact MANY Norwegian females available for both dating and marriage.

Anywho, just curious...


Quote
...Yes, I did look, but not seriously,, meaning no writing to anyone at all.
I just considered it a waste of time.

Gotcha!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 12, 2013, 05:05:44 AM
Ade..
I agree with you about one thing,, there are very few women in their thirties here in Norway that might be interested in a man 20+ years older than themselves.
Whatever personality or other features this man brings to the table, the age difference alone, is a complete turn off for the overwhelming majority.
The remaining small percentage might not be interested, but can fall in love based on personal preferences where they are willing to accept a large difference in age.
About these women, I would never feel comfortable labeling individuals with other priorities and beliefs than my own, into blanket categories like: desperate or father syndrome.

My wonderful life here on earth is simply to short, for me to have a passion for downgrading other peoples lives and their personal happiness.

This same turn-off for large age gaps, is valid for the majority of FSU women also, but probably to a much lesser degree.
After years of searching for the man of their dreams, they either gave up, or gradually adjusted their expectations to what they realistically might find.
They will still fall passionately in love with their somewhat older "prince", and plan their future life and happiness together with this man accordingly. 
These are my own thoughts based on my personal experience, gained from discussing this subject with a large amount of women, also with some agency managers,
and reading Russian Women forums.

It's been almost a year since starting my search by sending a large amount of intro letters to "very good looking" 20+ years younger women with a single child.
Looking back at it now, I am somewhat surprised by the relatively large amount of women that were seriously interested in meeting with me.
It was very unexpected, as I had no idea at the beginning of the year what kind of value I represented in the "used but still running" market.

Having been married with a large age gap for the last 13 years, I don't see much of a problem with the age alone, as daily life conflicts, are mostly the same whatever the age.   

Anyway,,, for me,,,, not only do I prefer strong and independent women, I could never find happiness with anything less.
I will marry with an educated, somewhat ambitious young woman that knows a lot about what she wants from her life.
Then if the day arrives, when she feels uncomfortable being with me, she will simply walk out on me, and leave me.
Thats all there is to it, nothing more and nothing less. I just can't imagine there being much of a drama to it at all.

Yes GQ,, I understand your curiosity,,
In my youth there were a lot of available beautiful girls at home, and I loved dating with them.
There are still available single women, much younger than me here at home, that I dated with 15-20 years ago.
But I had no interest in marrying them at that time, and even less so today.

Of course,,, not all of Ukraine's single female population are open for international marriages.
But not all of Norway's single female population are open for Internet dating either.
And a majority of the women I know here at home above 35, have no plans about ever marrying or getting into a permanent relationship again.
As with Lena being smitten by these same female views, she is looking for a man, but not a long time relationship,, and re-marrying,,, absolutely not.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ade on December 12, 2013, 06:25:54 AM
Having been married with a large age gap for the last 13 years, I don't see much of a problem with the age alone, as daily life conflicts, are mostly the same whatever the age.   


13 years ago you were 45... The older you get the more extreme the differences will become. But, it's your life. Just be aware that your love interest with a 20+ year age gap will, in all probability, be more interested in the life style you can give her rather than your sparkling personality. In some time, if she can get the same lifestyle with someone her own age, there's a good chance you will become superfluous and she will walk away with with some of your assets too.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on December 12, 2013, 09:31:41 AM
NorthK . . . I am not really understanding why you have this urge to get married.

You and your children's mother will be raising the children and sharing the duties . . .  right?

There are plenty of women around for ST and LT relationships; why the need to get married?

And why do you want the woman to have an interest in a career of her own?

As I understand it; your ex wanted too much of a career (and you didn't like that), and one of your gals from your current search didn't want a career (and you didn't like that).

So are you really thinking you can fine tune it enough that the gal will want just the right amount of career to suit you?  And if you find such, won't she change over time anyway?

It seems you have enough money to support a woman and your children without her working; so why the need to find a woman who wants a career? 

Seems it would be best for you to find a woman who just wants to be a homebody and spend all free time with you doing the fun things in life.

I know with my Ochka, I would be somewhat happier if she just stayed home with me all day long, every day, rather than her schooling and desires to do some teaching after finishing her degrees (if she ever decides to stop getting degrees).

I may be wrong with some of my 'facts' stated above about what I think your situation and desires are because my Alzheimer's comes and goes and I don't always know when it is here . . . which is how it is designed to work I guess.   8)

So where I am wrong, don't take it personally, just correct my 'fact' and go from there.

Best to you  and your family,  ML
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mendeleyev on December 12, 2013, 09:33:06 AM
Ade, you are right and one can see this in "arrangements" with well-to-do Russian businessmen and their much younger partners. Eventually the young lady steps up the frequency of meeting "friends" from Friday nights to several nights each week and over time the old man begins to be attended to by a nurse but the younger partner has left--taking her wardrobe, sports car, electronic gadgets and as many of his assets as she could gather without angering him to the point of arranging a hit on her life.

It is the essence of the "arrangement" and fairly well understood going into the game. That is often what attracts younger hotties to older men despite the fact that the guy believes that she finds him sexy when he is out of breath upon reaching the top a staircase.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on December 12, 2013, 09:41:34 AM
the guy believes that she finds him sexy when he is out of breath upon reaching the top a staircase.

Recently, Ochka said to me:  Let's go upstairs and have sex.

I said:  Choose one or the other.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 12, 2013, 10:25:50 AM
Ade, you are right and one can see this in "arrangements" with well-to-do Russian businessmen and their much younger partners. Eventually the young lady steps up the frequency of meeting "friends" from Friday nights to several nights each week and over time the old man begins to be attended to by a nurse but the younger partner has left--taking her wardrobe, sports car, electronic gadgets and as many of his assets as she could gather without angering him to the point of arranging a hit on her life.

It is the essence of the "arrangement" and fairly well understood going into the game. That is often what attracts younger hotties to older men despite the fact that the guy believes that she finds him sexy when he is out of breath upon reaching the top a staircase.

And then there is the other perspective:

Mendy,

I have met many young ladies who come to America from Eastern European countries.  I almost married one.  I was slightly over twenty years her senior.

Let me tell you about my friend Aliona (name changed).  She is from Kyiv (city changed).  She came here when she was 23.  I met her that same year.  She once showed me pictures of a friend of hers.  She was getting married.  He was 25, she was 24.  She said that in her opinion the marriage would last only five to ten years.  She believed that men her own age could not deal with the rigors or marriage. (Her opinion, not mine.)

She had some history behind her reasoning.  When she was 12, her father left her family to start another one.  She has a half brother she has never met. 

Aliona's mother is a kind and loving woman.  But if one looks at her, the years have been hard on her.  She is approaching 50 and looks older than 65.  She would be the classic babushka in two or three years.  If I am a younger woman, looking at my mother, I would seriously consider that the years that I have in front of me.  And they do.  And she did.

Aliona married a man who was 48.  I have met him.  He does not have a lot of money.  He is fun to be around and they have a very happy life, living in a condominium and going to the beach.  They go to clubs and eat out and travel.  It is the life she chose for herself. 

This is not the life I would want for a child of mine.  I would want them to have children and grandchildren of their own.  But the background that Aliona comes from does not teach her that such goals are in her best interest.  I spend time with Aliona and her husband.  I enjoy their company and the company of the bevy of friends that we mutually have from Eastern Europe.

Now there are many women who marry to have the security of someone who is well heeled.  But I believe that there are young women who simply fall in love with an older man.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 12, 2013, 10:42:03 AM
Ade
Was your answer / warning directed at me or for other by-passers to read...
If it was for me, wouldn't it occur to you, that I probably had this same warning repeated over and over, by others who also doesn't know me?

Also your words makes me wonder what kind of a relationship you have with your own wife.
Do you understand when a woman truly loves you? If yes, why don't you grant others the intelligence to understand the same feelings?
Or are you, and some of the other members here, omnipotent in your wisdom to understand relationships between people you know nothing about.
While you insinuate that the same people at the same time don't understand it themselves.

I have been passionately in love with all women in my life that I had a true relationship with, and they were also deeply in love with me.
All normal people I ever met with, understand such feelings, and they also know and understand that these feelings can't be faked over time.

Still Ade,, you think that I would marry a woman that wasn't in love with me, that is attracted to me for some superficial values, and that I'm unable to understand this.
What kind of a man are you Ade?? And how did you get to feel this position of superiority, face to face with another man you know nothing about.

If you knew more about me or googled me (like some of these women did), you would know, that I have no way of providing for an affluent lifestyle.
The women I am interested in, have a good career, good income, and a relatively happy life except for the missing man in their life / father for their child.
I have nothing to offer financially that they are unable to provide themselves,, and really,, I don't connect well with women who are interested in superficial values.

Also, I don't care much about my assets either, I would never make a prenuptial agreement with a woman who is my best friend and lover.
The women I had relationships with in my life were never interested in my assets, so there wasn't ever any need for an agreement.
As of today my assets are less than my debts so there is nothing for anyone to walk away with, but of course, this might change again in the future.

ML
I appreciate your interest,, answers to the riddle will unfold as the path is walked....

Mendy
read above
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Hammer2722 on December 12, 2013, 10:48:42 AM
Well said Northkape, very well said.... :applaud:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mendeleyev on December 12, 2013, 11:14:34 AM
Quote
Mendy
read above

And that changes the classic arrangement I described in what way?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 12, 2013, 11:42:45 AM
Well said Northkape, very well said.... :applaud:

There it is again.

Why can't you seem to develop your own thought and participate in the discussion instead of inserting little juvenile silly tidbits that serve nothing to the discussion other than adolescent thoughtless satisfaction to see your handle in a thread. Explain to the readers what it was in Northkape's post you think was stated well, will you?

I'll give you credit that you have at least graduated from your usual * +1 or +1000 *.


Jone-

As long as everyone understands that there are far more detrimental physiological changes that happens to a man in his 60s, and older, and in a more rapid development - than a man in his 40s.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Daveman on December 12, 2013, 12:06:31 PM

Or are you, and some of the other members here, omnipotent in your wisdom to understand relationships between people you know nothing about.



I've never claimed omnipotence, however, I do average about 98% on the omniscience factor..  >:D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 12, 2013, 12:29:25 PM
Sorry to poop on this party of overwhelming all-uniting love, maturity, and understanding, but
I think what the OP is doing is very uncivil and uncool. He is getting under his wife's skin by parading the other women and "potential step-mothers" before her eyes. What a cruel, completely selfish, and childish behavior. He's been doing it all through their marriage too. Always showing off his ex-girlfriends, benchmarking his wife constantly against his long-term and very successful first girlfriend. Etc etc etc.
Yes, perhaps the OP's wife in this relationship is adult and mature, and wise, and understanding and all that good stuff, but the OP isn't. To live with such man is a major PITA.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ade on December 12, 2013, 12:32:55 PM
Ade
Was your answer / warning directed at me or for other by-passers to read...

A little of both but I guess more for the latter.

If it was for me, wouldn't it occur to you, that I probably had this same warning repeated over and over, by others who also doesn't know me?

I know you are at least 58. I know you are aiming to try to hook up with a woman in her thirties. I know many men get blinded by lust and many women are very good at manipulating men to get what they want and the bigger the age gap, the more one is blinded and the easier it is for the other to manipulate him.

I'm pretty sure that most men that were used by the women they loved would also have vehemently claimed that they knew women and the women they loved.  ;)

Also your words makes me wonder what kind of a relationship you have with your own wife.

I have an awesome relationship with my wife which only grows stronger and deeper as the years go by and after 6 years of knowing her I feel confident stating that she loves me. But then, we "only" have a 13 year difference in ages and I was 42 when we met.

Do you understand when a woman truly loves you? If yes, why don't you grant others the intelligence to understand the same feelings?

So you are saying that all those that have been used and conned are all stupid, right? I seem to be more aware of how blind some men can get when their egos are stroked by a much younger woman.

Or are you, and some of the other members here, omnipotent in your wisdom to understand relationships between people you know nothing about.
While you insinuate that the same people at the same time don't understand it themselves.

I only know what you've posted (and what I've googled  ;) ) so I'm extrapolating. Yes, I could be wrong and you could beat the odds. But if you don't, how do you think that will affect your kids - the kids you have custody of as I understand it?

I have been passionately in love with all women in my life that I had a true relationship with, and they were also deeply in love with me.
All normal people I ever met with, understand such feelings, and they also know and understand that these feelings can't be faked over time.

Still Ade,, you think that I would marry a woman that wasn't in love with me, that is attracted to me for some superficial values, and that I'm unable to understand this.
What kind of a man are you Ade?? And how did you get to feel this position of superiority, face to face with another man you know nothing about.

I'm the kind of man that seems to understand FSUW mentality better than you for all your years of marriage.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 12, 2013, 12:56:12 PM
I have been passionately in love with all women in my life that I had a true relationship with, and they were also deeply in love with me.

All normal people I ever met with, understand such feelings, and they also know and understand that these feelings can't be faked over time.


This is meant as a sincere question, as I don't get it.  How can you be truly and deeply in love and not have that love last?  How does someone who is deeply in love fall out of love to the point of splitting, even breaking a family?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 12, 2013, 01:39:07 PM
Jone-

As long as everyone understands that there are far more detrimental physiological changes that happens to a man in his 60s, and older, and in a more rapid development - than a man in his 40s.

Hell, GQ, I'll let you know if I ever get there.   I had a friend of mine who was an executive assistant to whomever was in command of a Japanese corporate giant doing business here in the West Coast.  I knew he and his kids fairly well.  Great guy.

He was driving home from work on the 405 one day.  Called his wife, was talking to her and promptly died of a massive coronary.  He was 41.

You get past 40 and you become a statistic.  Women who date older men should be shown the statistics.  But with the relationship I described above, of the 25 YO gal marrying the 48 YO guy, I don't think it would have made any difference to the lady.  She sees her life as pretty well over at 45.  That is what I was trying to point out in my post.

One of the things that has always concerned me about Eastern European women is the percentage of gals who smoke.  They all know the risks.  But figure that their lives are a crap shoot anyway.  Who am I to tell them no?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 12, 2013, 02:12:50 PM
Mies...
What did I ever say to make you want to use such words.....?
I'm sure you have a somewhat nicer personality in real life.
Why then use of your free time to berate someone you have never met and know little or nothing about?

Ade
It seems to me, you still know and understand more than me, about my relationships, by reading a few words about them on the Internet.
Well, I will not disturb such a gifted man, in his quest to save us from ourselves.... smiles
Still, I wish you all the best in your marriage, and I really hope that your wife is equally forgiving in accepting your superiority behavior.

Bo
Maybe we have a different understanding of what love is... I don't know..
Do you mean that all those who divorced, were never truly in love with each other?

Jone
I have no idea about when my train leaves, still alive and enjoying every minute of it....
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 12, 2013, 02:28:22 PM
Sorry to poop on this party of overwhelming all-uniting love, maturity, and understanding, but
I think what the OP is doing is very uncivil and uncool. He is getting under his wife's skin by parading the other women and "potential step-mothers" before her eyes. What a cruel, completely selfish, and childish behavior. He's been doing it all through their marriage too. Always showing off his ex-girlfriends, benchmarking his wife constantly against his long-term and very successful first girlfriend. Etc etc etc.
Yes, perhaps the OP's wife in this relationship is adult and mature, and wise, and understanding and all that good stuff, but the OP isn't. To live with such man is a major PITA.

I agree that the relationship with the mother of his children is indeed odd based on the little we know.  Although his behavior as you described it would get under your skin, she for some inexplicable reason helps Northkape find a replacement wife.   This suggests that they are indeed friends other than they can not live with each other.   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Hammer2722 on December 12, 2013, 02:36:53 PM
I agree that the relationship with the mother of his children is indeed odd based on the little we know.  Although his behavior as you described it would get under your skin, she for some inexplicable reason helps Northkape find a replacement wife.   This suggests that they are indeed friends other than they can not live with each other.

Actually, I do believe that North and his ex are still living together in the same home.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 12, 2013, 03:01:50 PM
Bo
Maybe we have a different understanding of what love is... I don't know..


That is a possibility.

Quote
Do you mean that all those who divorced, were never truly in love with each other?


Not in the way I understand love.  They may have had a romantic, passionate desire for one another, but that is different, is it not?

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 12, 2013, 03:07:03 PM


Not in the way I understand love.  They may have had a romantic, passionate desire for one another, but that is different, is it not?


I assume you have only been in love once.  Is this a soul mate type of thing you believe in? 


That's cool if it is, I don't necessarily believe in soul mates or that you didn't love someone if that relationship ended. 





Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 12, 2013, 03:09:25 PM
Believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things .... as good a description as I have ever heard.  I still feel that way about my ex.  We are and remain best friends.  But life moves on. 

I believe you can love more than one person.  And be in love with more than one person. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 12, 2013, 03:14:50 PM
I assume you have only been in love once.  Is this a soul mate type of thing you believe in?  That's cool if it is, I don't necessarily believe in soul mates or that you didn't love someone if that relationship ended.



I don't know if I believe in soul mates.  I do believe God brings us together.  I am not trying to criticize this, I just truly don't get it. 

Almost all relationships, I assume, start with real passion.  But, marriages have ebbs and flows.  You may experience money problems, or in law problems, or problems with children, or health, etc.  You discover aspects of your partner that are not perfect.  You mature, experience the tests of life, and those have an effect on you, and your relationship, over time.  My view is, the true test of love is how you handle those changes.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 12, 2013, 03:20:45 PM
I don't know if I believe in soul mates.  I am not trying to criticize this, I just truly don't get it. 


Almost all relationships, I assume, start with real passion.  But, marriages have ebbs and flows.  You may experience money problems, or in law problems, or problems with children, or health, etc.  You discover aspects of your partner that are not perfect.  You mature, experience the tests of live, and those have an effect on you, and your relationship, over time.  My view is, the true test of love is how you handle those changes.


I didn't take it as criticism.  You were just expressing your point of view.  I think it actually helped me understand some of your posts better.   


For me, compatibility isn't the same thing as love.  I believe you can fall in love with someone that is not a compatible partner for the long term.


Passion and desire will wade after some time.  You would not be as passionate or in heat for each other after a year.


What keeps two people together afterwards would be love or just plain laziness.  hah  I have been with some fantastic women who had some amazing qualities.  Sometimes we just have different ideas of how we want to live. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 12, 2013, 04:36:42 PM
I agree that the relationship with the mother of his children is indeed odd based on the little we know.  Although his behavior as you described it would get under your skin, she for some inexplicable reason helps Northkape find a replacement wife.   This suggests that they are indeed friends other than they can not live with each other.

IMHO, it suggests that the OP holds their children as hostages in this situation: if the wife doesn't cooperate, the OP has all means to make the divorce and custody process very difficult for her. Also, perhaps she thinks that in this way she can at least have a say in picking the "least evil" as a stepmother for her children. This isn't friendship, this is an extreme egoism on OPs part and inability to see behind his own whims and desires, it's his eagerness to sacrifice anything, including the happiness of his children for satisfying his selfish little egotistic needs. The OP is insensitive to the feelings and needs of everyone else (his wife, his children, the women he is dating), but his own. And he is sugar-coating his egoism and cynical attitude as "friendship" and "perfect relationship."

Come on, guys. In your cheer-leading, imagine the reverse situation: a couple is on the rocks and discusses divorce after 13 years of marriage, there are two teenage sons, husband initiated divorce. Wife tells him: OK, I'll grant you a divorce, but I have my needs, so how about you will help me to find the new husband? Also, I need to let you know that the guys I am shagging now will be calling you at random times to ask for references for me, and also I have prepared the video presentation of our home and our children that I am showing to all the guys I am screwing while traveling through the country. I have several cities in my tour and likely I'll have sex in every one of 3-5 cities I plan to visit, it's possible that I'll have sex with several different people in the same city. Here are the photos of the guys I had sex with, here are the photos of the guys I will have sex with, - as you can see, they are all younger than you and are in a perfect physical shape, also they are very hot in bed. I'm sure you do not mind me telling you all these details because we are such wonderful friends with you and I feel I can share with you everything. Also, since you decided to divorce me, I feel that I am free to do anything I want now, and as  woman I have my sexual and other needs, and I need to find a new husband ASAP. That's ok that our divorce is not finalized yet. Oh, wait, we have not even applied for divorce yet. But we are going to file the separation papers soon. Some time soon. Maybe in half a year, perhaps longer.

What would you say about such woman?
Now, what makes the OP so much different? The fact that he has balls and thus has some sort of special rights?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 12, 2013, 04:39:17 PM
Believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things .... as good a description as I have ever heard.  I still feel that way about my ex.  We are and remain best friends.  But life moves on. 

I believe you can love more than one person.  And be in love with more than one person.

It's one thing to be good friends with your ex. It's a completely different thing to shove in her face the parade or exhibition of multiple women you are sleeping with, and requesting your ex to have conversations with them and describe to them what a wonderful husband you are. Would you be OK if your ex asked you to screen the guys she sleeps with (several different guys, mind it), and ask you to help her to pick the most reliable and shaggable guy?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 12, 2013, 04:54:20 PM
Mies,

You have not read my previous posts in this thread.  I could care less about NorthKape's future relationships.  For me, it is all about the children.  He should put his own personal needs aside until the children are grown.  I would think that a five year wait to get remarried is not unreasonable.  End of story. 

As a personal note, the reason that my ex and I are such close friends is because of the children, even though they both are now 'out of the nest'. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: waylan on December 12, 2013, 05:14:06 PM
Very interesting story. I am perplexed on one thing though: Why the necessity for looking for a mate that is 20+ years younger? I don't understand...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 12, 2013, 06:09:16 PM
...Come on, guys. In your cheer-leading, imagine the reverse situation: a couple is on the rocks and discusses divorce after 13 years of marriage, there are two teenage sons, husband initiated divorce. Wife tells him: OK, I'll grant you a divorce, but I have my needs, so how about you will help me to find the new husband? Also, I need to let you know that the guys I am shagging now will be calling you at random times to ask for references for me, and also I have prepared the video presentation of our home and our children that I am showing to all the guys I am screwing while traveling through the country. I have several cities in my tour and likely I'll have sex in every one of 3-5 cities I plan to visit, it's possible that I'll have sex with several different people in the same city. Here are the photos of the guys I had sex with, here are the photos of the guys I will have sex with, - as you can see, they are all younger than you and are in a perfect physical shape, also they are very hot in bed. I'm sure you do not mind me telling you all these details because we are such wonderful friends with you and I feel I can share with you everything. Also, since you decided to divorce me, I feel that I am free to do anything I want now, and as  woman I have my sexual and other needs, and I need to find a new husband ASAP. That's ok that our divorce is not finalized yet. Oh, wait, we have not even applied for divorce yet. But we are going to file the separation papers soon. Some time soon. Maybe in half a year, perhaps longer....


Who's to say she isn't getting serviced right now? Even by one who knows, or a friend to, the OP?

Maybe a bit off topic but this reminds me of a story some time ago. There was a member at RWG a while back who took pride in declaring how happy his marriage was - ad nauseum - on the board. I think there was a massive (almost 30 years) age disparity between him and his FSUW wife. Anyway, there was a FSUW/WM get together one time and people met, etc...

Long story short, the couple went somewhere for vacation and met the guy in that city, who just 'happened' to be in the same place they were. The guy was also a member at RWG like the husband. He said it was a coincidence. My suspicion is, it was deliberate because the older guy posted pictures of his young wife while patting himself on the back. So things happened during that vacation time....and for the ensuing months, the husband just kept repeating how lucky he is, blah, blah, blah for marrying his wife blah, blah, blah - while the entire time - the guy was screwing the older guy's wife and he just continued to support the older guy's posts on the board and telling him he's so happy for him, yada, yada, yada while constantly boinking his wife, LOL.

 >:D

Freaking hysterical, man! When he told me the story, I couldn't wait to get home and read many of the older guy's posts. I guess they got divorced short of a year after the affair got started and poor guy likely never even knew what was happening the entire time.

Point of that story is, like the one were discussing now, sometimes one have to wonder can a wacky thing actually gets wackier?

 :P
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on December 12, 2013, 06:16:49 PM

Who's to say she isn't getting serviced right now? Even by one who knows, or a friend to, the OP?

Maybe a bit off topic but this reminds me of a story some time ago. There was a member at RWG a while back who took pride in declaring how happy his marriage was - ad nauseum - on the board. I think there was a massive (almost 30 years) age disparity between him and his FSUW wife. Anyway, there was a FSUW/WM get together one time and people met, etc...

Long story short, the couple went somewhere for vacation and met the guy in that city, who just 'happened' to be in the same place they were. The guy was also a member at RWG like the husband. He said it was a coincidence. My suspicion is, it was deliberate because the older guy posted pictures of his young wife while patting himself on the back. So things happened during that vacation time....and for the ensuing months, the husband just kept repeating how lucky he is, blah, blah, blah for marrying his wife blah, blah, blah - while the entire time - the guy was screwing the older guy's wife and he just continued to support the older guy's posts on the board and telling him he's so happy for him, yada, yada, yada while constantly boinking his wife, LOL.

 >:D

Freaking hysterical, man! When he told me the story, I couldn't wait to get home and read many of the older guy's posts. I guess they got divorced short of a year after the affair got started and poor guy likely never even knew what was happening the entire time.

Point of that story is, like the one were discussing now, sometimes one have to wonder can a wacky thing actually gets wackier?

 :P


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RueCun_Bh8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RueCun_Bh8)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 12, 2013, 06:21:52 PM
That's a cool sounding groove there, FP! Love, luv Motown!

The song I actually had in mind that likely serves the MOB more is this....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-NlR54PqLw



"My, oh my, you sure know how to arrange things. You set it up so well, so carefully. Ain't it funny how your new life didn't change things. You're still the same old girl you used to be"
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: lonedrake on December 12, 2013, 06:26:01 PM
Quote
before I go to visit her on the last one of my remaining days, before going home.


 Nice! You can screw her for a couple of days and then leave without saying goodbye.

I believe mies has you pegged.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 12, 2013, 06:43:40 PM
Bo......
I have no beliefs in any god, and I find your definition of love to be somewhat on the outside of my boundaries.

But, I do agree that there is a great passion for each other at the start of a relationship,,, which then slowly fades in the years to come.
For me, true love is the deep warm feelings I still felt (years after the passion had faded) when looking at my wife innocently in sleep beside me.
Knowing, feeling and wanting to protect her with my own life if necessary. Somewhat similar to the love I have always felt for my boys.

We had a very close relationship throughout our marriage. In the first five years, we spent almost every minute of every single day together,
and it was more than ten years before the first day when we didn't see each other.
Me and Lena might be divorcing now, but we will forever be connected through our boys,
and I believe that some slices of our feelings for each other will remain for years to come.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 12, 2013, 07:01:03 PM
Lonedrake
I understand that for one reason or another, you don't like me.
But what I don't understand, is what pleasure it gives you to berate me and accuse me of something I never would have done.

Well, I was never the one to hold any grudges towards those I simply didn't understand.
I hope at least, that you are nicer with those closer to you than you are towards me.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: lonedrake on December 12, 2013, 08:26:55 PM
Quote
I have decided not to answer her calls, before I go to visit her on the last one of my remaining days, before going home.

 Correct me if I am wrong...but you spent five days with Kie32(lived with) . You called it off with her....but kept her hanging around. You would not tell her when you would visit her again even though you knew you would be in her city. The night you decided to call her was the night another woman left "early". You showed up and immediately had sex with her( my interpretation) and were with her for two days. You left in an argument without saying goodbye. Now she is calling you and you will not return her calls ....yet you still plan on going back to see her right before you go home?  What are you planning to do on this visit?

 You are too busy to talk to her now and you think she will forget about this? You will go there and have sex...an argument will ensue and you will leave.....mad and putting the blame on her.....most likely without saying goodbye.

 I am sorry but I do not respect your actions and furthermore I do not believe you are telling the real reason why your wife wants a divorce.

 Maybe it just a cultural thing...but I doubt it.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: TomT on December 12, 2013, 09:35:29 PM
...I have decided not to answer her calls, before I go to visit her on the last one of my remaining days, before going home.


Unfortunately, as lonedrake implied, this reads very much like the behavior of a user.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 12, 2013, 11:09:21 PM
I don't see how else one could interpret this except that the story line being promoted here is completely self serving. 

When I realized, after he had told us of his beautiful love story between he and his (current) wife that he was divorcing her and going to chapter two on our dime,  I could not quite understand how selfish he was.  It was hard to take in, hard to believe.

I think that the only person he is deceiving is himself.  I would bet that everyone else has him figured out.   I don't believe that there is anyone on this forum that feels sorry for you, Northkape.  But what a fricking tragedy for your children. 

I realize that sport fucking is the craze when a marriage is breaking up, but a real man puts aside his own needs and realizes that the commitment that he made to his family far outweighs any needs that he, personally, might have.

Maybe you should believe in a God.  You certainly need someone to atone for your transgressions.   Obviously, you don't think you need to do it yourself.

 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ade on December 13, 2013, 01:29:25 AM
Maybe you should believe in a God.  You certainly need someone to atone for your transgressions.   Obviously, you don't think you need to do it yourself.


Don't be silly. Those that believe in a god don't have a monopoly on morality and I've met many religious people that fall far short of the generally accepted mark and are hypocrites to boot.


As for Northkape. Yes, he's a user and selfish. He probably doesn't see it like that and perhaps he ever thinks he's a really nice guy. Incredible how blind some people are. I wonder if mies is close to the truth and that his soon to be ex-wife feels somehow coerced into helping him find another woman. Even if she's messed up in the head (as messed up she'd have to be as this is not normal behaviour) and doing this willingly, I can't imagine that a man with character would use her and take advantage of her and her family this way. And then there is the using of women under false pretenses all over Ukraine.


Northkape, if we met I'm sure you'd come across as a nice guy. I'm fairly sure you'd think the same of me. But, if the topic of this tread came up in discussion I would give you my opinion in real life as I've done here. You can take that any way you want but if you think that straight, honest opinions make me a bad person then so be it. I can tell you now though, I would never do what you're doing to your wife, her family, your kids and the women you are screwing around with in Ukraine. So if I'm a bad person, where does that place you on the curve?


I also wouldn't be delusional enough to believe that a 30-something would be hot for my 58 year old body.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 13, 2013, 02:00:48 AM
Lonedrake

Thanks for taking your time to answer.

Whatever you read out of my previous story, I still think that this part was unnecessarily rude:

Nice! You can screw her for a couple of days and then leave without saying goodbye.
You are too busy to talk to her now and you think she will forget about this? You will go there and have sex...an argument will ensue and you will leave.....mad and putting the blame on her.....most likely without saying goodbye.

The rest of it was not to far off.
Some backtracking to things I wrote about earlier just to clarify......

When going to Ukraine this summer my plan was to have relatively short meetings with as many as possible of the women interested in meeting with me.
A short intro over a cup of coffee to peg interest, and then a second longer one if both parties wanted it.
I tried to keep calm and not agree to more than a single second meeting for obvious reasons.
Doing so would break my schedule and make it impossible to meet all of those I really wanted to meet with.
It was specifically important to avoid having sex as that would most certainly ruin my plans.
All the way to the final destination Kiev, I somehow kept my schedule. But I lost control and failed there with Kiev32.

When arriving at home we spoke on the phone daily, for several weeks, till one day when I got very frustrated with her.
Telling her that I couldn't see much reason for us to continue.
And also how it would be better for us to think about all of it, and maybe get in touch again after a month or two.
That's what happened approximately a month before my last trip, we picked up the line again and started over with clean sheets.

This is what I wrote here about meeting her again:
She knew I was coming to Kiev and I had to promised to visit her,, a very difficult decision to make,,
as I knew exactly what would happen as soon as she opened the door.

I had a well made plan on a tight schedule and was torn between her and executing my plan.
She knew all about this and also understands very well what needs to be solved before we can agree on building a future together.
In my opinion we hadn't made much progress since summer, making me feel very uncertain about making any decisions at this point.
So I left her, and did say goodbye, but not kissing her goodbye, if you go reread my writings.

For the rest of this trip I followed my schedule to the point..

I did meet with her again and we were talking with each other on Skype as recently as yesterday evening.
More later.

About my life with Lena and our divorce,,
any sane and polite person here, is free to call her and ask her directly,, I will not give the number, but where in the justice department she works, then it is possible to call there and ask for her by name. She speaks fluent Russian, Ukrainian, Norwegian and good English also.

Through all my history here I told the truth about everything, verified by photos in such a way that it is easy to find me and my history on Google.
I am not afraid of who I am and my history, in stark contrast to all of those here that hide there names, age, location and so on.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ade on December 13, 2013, 02:10:32 AM

any sane and polite person here, is free to call her and ask her directly,


 :cluebat:


Dude, do you honestly think she will welcome such unsolicited calls? Inviting strangers on the net like that on her behalf is just nuts.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 13, 2013, 02:36:48 AM

 :cluebat:


Dude, do you honestly think she will welcome such unsolicited calls? Inviting strangers on the net like that on her behalf is just nuts.


Maybe he is trying to return the favor and set her up with someone from here?  :D



Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: lonedrake on December 13, 2013, 06:18:55 AM
Quote
And also how it would be better for us to think about all of it, and maybe get in touch again after a month or two.

 You are just stinging her along so you can continue to see if something better comes along. Your plans changed,but yet you want to continue on like nothing happened between the two of you(i.e. chemistry,love whatever).  Take responsibility for your actions and give this woman the respect she deserves. STOP meeting other women and give this relationship your undivided attention. You think she will not be resentful of what you are doing?

 I understand nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes and it is also difficult to explain situations online, but you need to step back and look at things from her perspective. How would you feel?

You have already said that you fell in love with her. Now I am not sure what your definition of love is.....but your actions are not what I would consider love. I doubt she does either.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 13, 2013, 07:33:22 AM
Mies,

yes, Jone, you are right, my apologies that I missed your post about children. I cannot agree more with you.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 13, 2013, 08:03:22 AM
Mies...
What did I ever say to make you want to use such words.....?
I'm sure you have a somewhat nicer personality in real life.
Why then use of your free time to berate someone you have never met and know little or nothing about?

NorthKape, I am sorry, but that was a nicer version of me giving the response. What the not-so-nice version of me would say about this story none of us wants to hear, me including.
Does your wife date anyone? Do her new boyfriends call you and have long conversations with you and ask many questions about your family life? Do you go to lingerie shops with your wife to help her pick lingerie for her dates with the new guys?  Does she post on the web stories about you telling all details about your work, and your family life, and your children, and posts photos of you and your children and family/relatives there as well? Have you met her ex-boyfriends? Had she invited her ex-boyfriends to your wedding and parties? Has she brought to Norway an album with photos of her and her ex's together?

And if she doesn't do this to you, why in the world do you think it's OK to do this to her?
You know, there are two types of people. The first type, when they see a nice person, they think "this person is nice, and I will be treating them nice too, and will not be taking advantage of them although I know I can." And then there is a second type of people, who think "let me find a nice person so that I can do anything I want and get away with it." And from your posts you look like a second type. I can easily believe that you are a nice person too, and are doing everything you are doing as the saying goes "with a smile." Because you are always positive and optimistic, and that's what attracts other people to you. How can you not understand that you are hurting people around you?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 13, 2013, 08:38:03 AM

Maybe he is trying to return the favor and set her up with someone from here?  :D

We'll you just incited at least a dozen pensioner members to foam at their mouths at that idea.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 13, 2013, 08:39:14 AM

Through all my history here I told the truth about everything, verified by photos in such a way that it is easy to find me and my history on Google.
I am not afraid of who I am and my history, in stark contrast to all of those here that hide there names, age, location and so on.

It is true that most here reveal little about themselves and even less about their wife or girlfriend.  That is their decision.  It does concern me that some of these stealth members do not hesitate about sticking their nose in other people's lives and making sweeping sometimes harsh conclusions.   


The fact you provide personal and verifiable details does give credence to your story.  However, I tend to take at face value what people post.  And I believe you when you say you are not on a sexual quest. 
 

Nevertheless, your openness does not make your story less peculiar, so peculiar as to be bizarre. 

I understand after a long marriage with children that you need to proceed patiently before making strong commitments.    It seems you are merely doing window shopping instead of trying on everything you see (with an exception or two).     I commend you because many men and women jump into a new relationship before concluding the prior one and before deciding what is best for their life. 

My one  criticism of you is that you have not concluded your divorce.  Even after you divorce, she will still be the mother of your children.  This will necessitate some continuing connection which you welcome, yet you need to sever everything else and return to single life.    That would be best for your ex-wife, best for the UW you meet, and best for yourself.

I have been in your shoes, married with children.  At the 20-year mark, it was clear that our marriage was doomed.  It took another 5 years to conclude it.  It would have been better for all if we had done it sooner, even though we were as amicable as you and your wife (my ex-wife also wanted to help me with finding a girlfriend :D).   We sincerely cared about each other, and such lingering thoughts interfered with my having a true relationship with other women. 


The same as you I avoided getting into serious relationships.  Along the way, some impatient women left me, women who perhaps would have been good for me for the long-term.    Nevertheless, today I am married and have never been happier.  My RW wife was worth the long search. 

Returning to your story:   It is absurd to suggest that we call your wife.  However, if we did what do you believe she would say?   In particular, why are the two of you divorcing?  I will appreciate your guess as to what she would say. 
   

I also would like to know what you would want in your future wife, if you married again, that is better than the mother of your children.  Frankly, she seems like a delightful, well adjusted woman.


 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on December 13, 2013, 09:14:21 AM

I think that the only person he is deceiving is himself.  I would bet that everyone else has him figured out.   I don't believe that there is anyone on this forum that feels sorry for you, Northkape.  But what a fricking tragedy for your children. 

I realize that sport fucking is the craze when a marriage is breaking up, but a real man puts aside his own needs and realizes that the commitment that he made to his family far outweighs any needs that he, personally, might have.


This is the part I just really do not get. North speaks fondly of his current wife. Without looking back to quote him, he was even doting to a large degree. Even though he stated that he has fell out of love with his wife, he still loves her. He has went on in detail about what a wonderful mother, wife and woman she is. Unless there is something else he isn't telling, this makes no sense to me but, it ain't my life.

North believes he is a good father and very well maybe but, breaking up the family even as amicable and painless as he is attempting to make it, doesn't reflect that he is either a good father or husband. I see it as he is being quite selfish. The women he is stringing along is one thing but more importantly is what he's doing to his family IMHO. It reeks of a man in a mid-life crisis.

Sorry North, in attempting to appeal to your moral fabric, as a husband to a woman that apparently still loves you (why else would she put up with this stuff) a woman by your own descriptions is a wonderful person and mother but more importantly what you are doing to those boys is inexcusable. IMHO as the father and husband you should be protecting them from what you are exposing them to.
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 13, 2013, 09:40:17 AM
We'll you just incited at least a dozen pensioner members to foam at their mouths at that idea.


Viva La Viagra
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 13, 2013, 10:13:28 AM
Just one more example in the many realities of the MOB.

Unfortunately, both Ukraine and the rest of the MOB regional, it doesn't say much about its women when you read the manner in which many of these relationship are handled, managed and consummated by it's participants.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 13, 2013, 11:05:06 AM
I guess we shouldn't expect more.  After all, the great majority of men on this site come from failed relationships.  Myself included.

However, for reasons that Mies pointed out above (nice post Mies) this thread is more offensive than most because it details a history of an exceedingly selfish man, deluding himself and injuring people as he travels through his tale all the while assuming the guise of respectability.

As for Ade, I made no opinion on the existence of a supreme being.  I simply opined that the OP needed someone to atone for his misdeeds (something that is intrinsic to the Christian, Jewish and Islamic faiths - and they claim to do) because he certainly wasn't going to be doing it himself.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on December 13, 2013, 02:46:23 PM
A mid life crisis driven by carnal lust has no morals, loyalty or conscience I suppose
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 13, 2013, 02:50:51 PM
Yeah, but at least he's not driving around Ukraine in a typical two-seater convertible...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: The Natural on December 13, 2013, 05:01:57 PM
It is true that most here reveal little about themselves and even less about their wife or girlfriend.  That is their decision.  It does concern me that some of these stealth members do not hesitate about sticking their nose in other people's lives and making sweeping sometimes harsh conclusions.   
True words and I concur. And it really ticks me off receiving harsh judgements from online people without faces. Of the very few on this site that I have seen the face of, I value their input, but the others just makes noise like bad radio interference.
 
About the thread here made by my fellow Norwegian I won't say too much as I don't know the whole story and there are several acid comments that tend to colour the reader. But if what I've read so far and understand is to believed, I would have to say I personally would have done it otherwise. Wife, Lena, is a total knockout and is, what... 35-36? Of course looks aren't everything but as one at the age of 48 who was blessed by God to get a perfect son, I would say two of them should be more than a good reason to settle some differences and stay together. In my way of thinking, there is absolutely nothing else, career, adventure, arguments or whatever, that is remotely as important as your own flesh and blood.
 
Again, this is just some thoughts based on inadequate information and I do tend to cheer for the underdog, in this case the guy who's bashed by faceless handles on the internet, but on the other hand, I have to admit the story is not presented as a wholesome tale. But the Almighty will be the final judge no matter if people believe in Him or not.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 14, 2013, 03:39:54 AM
I have to say,, upon reviewing the remarkable resurrection of vivid imagination among posters in this thread,
that I feel somewhat honored being here as the principal grading and writing remarks to his college freshmen’s first time explication of MacBeth

Lonedrake

It's not as simple as it looks from the outside.
Kiev32 is a part of the problem and she knows it.
She has a full understanding of my situation and we have agreed together on what we are doing.

I will continue searching at least till she makes up her mind about how to proceed with our relationship.
She really want's to be with me, but at the same time she is very afraid of losing all that she has fought so hard for,
taking her boy out of his familiar private school, and also leaving behind all of her family and everything that is familiar to her.
At the same time, she fully understands that I can’t take my boys and come to live with her.
Also she can’t understand herself, why she is so attracted to me, she never had relationships with older men earlier in her life.
We had «no» contact before our meeting.
When arriving in Kiev, I dropped of a form letter to her and many others, to stuff my schedule with extra meetings.
Stating that I was in Kiev, with free time available for a cup of coffee with a woman interested in practicing her English.
Well, she replied, telling me that she had an hour or so after work, a meeting that turned into a full five days.

There is also one other thing that complicated our relationship, making it even harder for her.
Unfortunately I met with her young boy at the last day of our meeting.
It was instant love,, and this is a young boy that really wants a father, nagging his mother constantly about it.

l always loved children and they love me, it’s sort of a magnetic reaction.

For this reason I tried to avoid meeting a woman’s child whenever possible, because I knew that this would skew her opinion of me.
I wouldn’t want a woman choosing me because of my relationship with her child.

more later
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on December 14, 2013, 05:54:43 AM
Hi
Keep writing.
There are not a lot of trip report and they are valuable.
Stay on your feet and let us informed about what's going on.

I have seen me sometimes weak, i have done perhaps sometimes or more than sometimes things not glorious. I felt ashamed but all along the life i met so many people  who did worse or not better for a variety of reasons. I saw them, i saw their redemption, i tried to understand circumstances, and more i  asking myself what i would have done better ?  i understood that in a life you can do something wrong and suddenly i understood that life needs to be continued and that normality is just question of very personal opinion which depends of the moment. And they are many moments in life... the prosecution can change of hands very quickly.
Nothing is more fragile than the truth with which you own the world. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 14, 2013, 06:27:32 AM
Northkape, even if your wife is telling you she is fine with what you are doing and happy to support you in your plans, you should have never put her through this. Many people when care ready to accept and support regardless how it makes them feel. You are hurting her feelings, she will never admit it, she will put a brave face on and say what she thinks you want to hear because she wants you to be happy.
Haven't you thought about why she doesn't want to re-marry again?

Same with your sons. The day they grow up and understand what you did will come.


Come to your senses, ask mods to remove any personal details/info about your wife/kids. Life will go forward and all this BS about them will stay for many many years on net, they the ones who will have to live with it if it is not cleaned up. You should be protecting them.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 14, 2013, 07:36:18 AM
Miss A speaks with great wisdom.  I realize that I have been openly critical of NorthKape, but I post, many times, imagining my daughter or son reading what I write.  It is amazing how that changes one's perspective.

Those of you who are encouraging this trip report do so at the peril of this man's extended family. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: lonedrake on December 14, 2013, 09:15:55 AM
Quote
I will continue searching at least till she makes up her mind about how to proceed with our relationship.

 She doesn't trust you. You must stop meeting other women and reassure her that you are serious. If you keep meeting other women why would she trust you?

 Just put yourself in her shoes.

 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 14, 2013, 10:47:48 AM
I will continue searching at least till she makes up her mind about how to proceed with our relationship.
She really want's to be with me, but at the same time she is very afraid of losing all that she has fought so hard for,
taking her boy out of his familiar private school, and also leaving behind all of her family and everything that is familiar to her.
At the same time, she fully understands that I can’t take my boys and come to live with her.
Also she can’t understand herself, why she is so attracted to me, she never had relationships with older men earlier in her life.

Northkape, read what you wrote and have a think about it. In case you fail, here is a little clue that may help you.

You are not even ready to consider possibility moving to Ukraine but at the same time demand instant decision from her to leave everything behind and move to your country.

Are you serious? You expect someone who have seen you only for few days decide to leave own country and build future with you? How about proving you are worth leaving anything behind? How about getting to know each other enough to decide if you two right for each other to build future together?

Your ego is bigger than Boeing Everett Factory.

There is also one other thing that complicated our relationship, making it even harder for her.
Unfortunately I met with her young boy at the last day of our meeting.
It was instant love,, and this is a young boy that really wants a father, nagging his mother constantly about it.

l always loved children and they love me, it’s sort of a magnetic reaction.

For this reason I tried to avoid meeting a woman’s child whenever possible, because I knew that this would skew her opinion of me.
I wouldn’t want a woman choosing me because of my relationship with her child.

You have met her child on the day 5 after a cup of coffee you two had that lasted over 4 days.  It is obvious she was attracted to you way before you have met her child. It is not a top secret that women do not introduce every guy they have met for coffee (even if that coffee lasted for 5 days) to their child/children. So after she have made a step forward to build relationship you decided it is not good enough. She must be ready instantly to drop everything and plan her future with you and to speed up process she must be aware while she is deciding to drop everything for you or not you will cruise Ukraine looking for something better than her.
What a caring wonderful nature you have   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 14, 2013, 11:55:10 AM
I wonder sometimes when reading the comments....
If it is the vivid imagination of other posters that is commented, or what I have written in my story.

Just to clarify again.....
Lena wanted a divorce a year ago,,,,
She had warned me several times in the preceding year about the problems in our relationship.
At the time, I felt unable to correct all of it alone, but still didn't think she would actually go as far as wanting to divorce.
I tried to persuade her to stay for a few more years to help the transition for the boys, but she wouldn't listen.

We had long discussions about how to solve all the practical sides of it.
I agreed to take the main custody for the boys as it would be easier for me than for her.
And boys were already together with me most of the time, weekdays and weekends.
Also she could continue her career in Oslo, which would have been impossible for her being alone with the boys.
She bought an apartment in the center of Oslo 1st. of August to live there permanently,
and having the boys stay with her every weekend, and most of their holidays.
So far she has stayed partly together with us all week, driving back and forth to Oslo, 100 km away.
We are planning to spend this Christmas together also, as it probably is our last Christmas together.
-
I also explained for Lena that I would look for a new wife in our family, to the best for me and my boys.
A decision she fully supported as she knows how much I like doing things together as a full family.
In her opinion it is also important for the well being of our boys and a great help for her also.

These are extracts from my earlier posts:
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Exactly what happened this afternoon when my Lady from Kiev chatted with Lena on the phone for almost an hour.

There will be no or very little pain for the boys the way me and Lena have arranged it.
I'm together with them several hours every day and know them very well.
And no, Lena isn't helping me finding a new wife,,,,,,
She helped me call some prospects because of my limited Russian.

Me and Lena are rather pragmatic in behavior, and our divorce was a final decision before the end of last year.
At the end of february I decided to marry again and registered at a long list of dating sites (also Scandinavian)
Knowing how long it took me to find and marry with Lena, I found it best to start writing sooner rather than later.

I prefer to live in a close family, where we are doing things together. Wether it is household duties or traveling.
In my opinion, I see this as the best solution for my boys also.
A decision Lena fully supports for the sake of the boys, as they will be living more with me than with her.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

I don't know what kind of relationships others have, but I could never have Lena talk with someone if she didn’t want to.
Lena has been talking once on the phone, with one lady (Kiev32) about things related to life in Norway
And she would gladly talk with any woman serious about marrying me.
She has a lot to gain from being friendly with this woman, and will do her best to build a friendly relationship with my future wife. 

Mies..
I am not sure, but it seems so to me,,
that you think you understand what kind of life and personal relationship Lena and I have, based on a few photos and what little I have been writing here.
I have no power to convince you one way or another about the actual reality, other than to suggest, that you read my words with a little less prejudice.
I wouldn't feel upset about anything in your hypothetical questions and mostly Lena wouldn't either from the other side.
We are rather pragmatic persons with no place for jealousy or fear of what others might say or think about us, especially for me, but for Lena also.

Gator..
Not absurd for someone not afraid of their own mankind,,
I would of course have told her to expect the call, and she would have answered the questions truthfully seen from her side.

Better,,, that depends, I have met one truly fantastic woman in my life, Lena's mother... smile
I remember thinking, after getting to know her, before I married with her daughter,
If Lena is only half of what her mother is, I have probably found the best possible wife I could ever find.
At the start it looked like I was right, but in later years things changed more than I was able to adjust to.

more later 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mendeleyev on December 14, 2013, 12:06:49 PM
Northkape, if there is one thing I've learned about Russian women over the years is that if she wants to leave, she will leave. There is no hanging around. However if she stays, she wants you to change. Failure to pursue her not only makes her lose respect for you, but it causes her to lose respect for herself.

When a RW gives you a warning, it is an opening for you to win back her heart. Most men never get that chance.

Sadly it seems that most men aren't man enough to try either.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 14, 2013, 12:48:20 PM
I wonder sometimes when reading the comments....
If it is the vivid imagination of other posters that is commented, or what I have written in my story.
...

Northkape, I have read what you wrote very carefully from beginning and my comments are based on what you wrote.
Your wife asked you to make some changes, you have failed (or may be didn't even try), she asked for divorce. It took you only a couple of months (or a bit more) after 13 years of marriage to decide seek new wife (shows just how much you valued your marriage and your wife). While your wife still drives 100km to work to have as much as possible time with family. Of course for the sake of boys she will talk with women you date but why would you put her through this? You saying you still love and care for her, so why do this to her? Paying back because she decided to leave? Yes, I understand that once you re-marry your new and ex wives will have to have good communication and understanding with each other because of boys. But no, she doesn't have to translate for you now, she doesn't have to be involved, you do not need to push in her face how fast she can be replaced.

Do you think when boys grow up they will not realize you have been dating other women while you and their mum were still living under same roof? Do you think they will take it as 'being protected'? Or as disrespect towards their mother?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2013, 04:13:56 PM
There will be no or very little pain for the boys the way me and Lena have arranged it.
I'm together with them several hours every day and know them very well.

All parents say this.  Especially when they are attempting to justify decisions which are for their benefit, rather than for that their children.

Quote
I prefer to live in a close family, where we are doing things together. Wether it is household duties or traveling.
In my opinion, I see this as the best solution for my boys also.
A decision Lena fully supports for the sake of the boys, as they will be living more with me than with her.

Do you really believe you will have a close family that is the best solution for your boys by introducing a new mother figure, and an instant step sibling. into their family?

Men here continually complain about how WW have lost "traditional family values".  Do any of you, on second marriages with your minor children in tow, or on third or fourth marriages, ever wonder why the progeny who have grown up under the shadow of such marriages become a little jaded about the "traditional family values" their parents foisted upon them?   

I'm not saying second marriages with children can't work, as I think they can, but kids never have a say in the matter.  They are presented with a done deed, and are expected to just accept it.  Let's not pretend this is an ideal situation for them, or, more to my point, that it is being done for them.  It's not.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 15, 2013, 05:03:52 AM
Faux
You are reading to much into those words about Lena
There is no romantic love left between us, and hasn't been for a while.
And there are reasons why Lena wanted to divorce.
Reasons we don't fully agree on, but still prefer to keep private between the two of us.
Looking back, I see clearly, that I could have done more to prevent what happened.

As I have probably said before, Lena agrees that she might come knocking on the door at some point in the future.
But, she would regard me as foolish, and also hurting the boys unnecessarily, to wait for that to happen.

I was worried about my boys to start with, but no longer, we have been able to keep our friendly "family spirit" alive through all of this.
And I don't see that changing with a new wife having a friendly relationship with Lena.
Yes, there will be large changes in our family, but they will be prepared for it, and we are moving slowly.
They fully understand so far, that when Lena moves more permanently out of our house, they will be seeing her slightly less.

Natural
Thanks for the friendly words,, about Lena.
And without saying anything negatively about her,, I do agree that looks aren't always everything.
Yes, I do share your view about what is the most important thing in life.
About who is to judge, with no God present, that is for those being close to me to do, earning their respect, not through my words, but through my actions.

Pat
I do agree about the value of trip reports.... smile
It might help more men to plan for productive and successful trips.
There is an incredible amount of very good women above 35 with children, that would make for great partners to a lot of divorced lonely men in the western world.

MissA
When reading your words, it makes me wonder about how you are reading my words.
If you are writing those comments for me to take notice, I would kindly suggest a less resenting and hostile attitude in your "well meant" advice.

Lonedrake
I do understand that you trying to give advice based on the limited knowledge available.
But for me standing inside this situation, talking very openly with an intelligent and reasonable young woman, over a long period of time,
where we both understand each others views quite good, I think it is on the verge of being impossible, for an outsider to advice me at all.
But we are slowly making progress, which might or not, end in a marriage if she is the one I decide upon.
Having numerous profiles on the Internet and being listed with several "niche" marriage agencies in Kiev, looking first and foremost for a Ukraine man,
she understands the game very well, and have no naive illusions about how the cards are played out, after numerous meetings in the last two years.

Mendy
I do respect your deep understanding of Russian women in general...
It might not ever be possible for me to attain your level of understanding, but I still feel like having one up on you in understanding my own wife,,,,, or?
And in general when trying to get through with advice on a personal level, I would advise a slight rewriting of your last sentence. smiles...

Bo
Not that I read all that is written on this forum, but at times you appear to be somewhat sensible in your way of commenting.

The art of criticizing while gaining respect is difficult enough face to face with people you are familiar with.
On a forum through words alone to persons you know little or nothing about, it is more than just difficult.

From my personal experience, showing respect before criticizing can help in making it worthwhile to write at all.
All people, including you and me, feel themselves as individual beings, and dislikes being dumped into blanket categories like: "all parents"
Going on with statements that your views are unquestionable right, and learning them top - down,, don't resonate well with me at least.

I feel myself like having a rich and multi flavored life experience at the age of 58, and if I truly didn't believe I was doing the right things for my family, I wouldn't be doing it.
For me to have an abundance of energy, joy and happiness available for my boys to share, I need to feel happiness myself also,
and this is where a new woman in my life can fill the void left in my soul.
Her bringing another (younger) child into our family is an extra bonus that I am very excited about.
My boys will be there to help me along,,, they are always happy whenever they can help their dad, and won't ever do anything to hurt me.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 05:31:28 AM

This is meant as a sincere question, as I don't get it.  How can you be truly and deeply in love and not have that love last?  How does someone who is deeply in love fall out of love to the point of splitting, even breaking a family?
It is simple- all these "loved ones" at some pont got OUT of Kape's control.
Did I miss something? Is Kape divorced already?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 05:41:09 AM
MissA
When reading your words, it makes me wonder about how you are reading my words.
If you are writing those comments for me to take notice, I would kindly suggest a less resenting and hostile attitude in your "well meant" advice.

 
What is it? You're telling the board member how to write and what to write?
BTW she is Russian and is writing in a "normal" Russian manner- she writes what she things.
Pleeeeeeeeease!))
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 15, 2013, 05:46:45 AM
Northkape, I don't do sugar coating, never did and came to the point of realizing I never will be able to attain even basic skills in it. I do not resent your actions and/or words and I do not have hostile attitude. If I did my posts would have been very different.


I do get it, your marriage is over, there is no way back, only forward. I do understand desire to share your life with someone, I do understand desire to be happy.

I know a couple who also after deciding to divorce carried on living together for some time for the sake of kids. Slowly making changes in daily life and making sure their kids will not be hurt by decision they have made.

Still I believe you should have spared your wife (and her parents) from being involved in your search of SO. Still I believe you should have not at any circumstances disclosed personal details of your wife/kids on net. Still I believe prior getting into any new relationship (even if it is long distance relationship) you should separate with your wife (meaning stop living together). And also think over and over again about impact on your boys of new wife and her child.

The couple that I have mentioned above after they decided to divorce kept it secret for some time, only relatives and few close friends have been aware about their decision. They slowly introduced changes into their daily lives. I do not know if either of them was involved with anyone else, if they were they were very discreet about it. Then he bought new house close by and their kids have been spending time equally at both homes, getting used to concept of parents not living together anymore. I believe over that time they slowly started dating others but still it was all very discreet. Now both of them in serious relationship, she has new partner living with her and kids, he moved out to another city and lives with his new partner. It took them about 2 years to execute this, their kids got older in mean time and get used to concept that their parents not together anymore.

By your writing it seems that you plan after you finally start to live separately with your ex new wife will come into picture as soon as possible. If that is what you are thinking to do then please rethink because it will cause more damage than good. It will take time for kids to adjust to the concept of you and their mum not being together anymore. Giving them new mum in that period of time could make them resent her and possibly you also. Regardless how much you know your kids you can not fully predict their emotions and reaction to change of circumstances.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 05:51:49 AM
   
 
     
 
Bo
Not that I read all that is written on this forum, but at times you appear to be somewhat sensible in your way of commenting.

The art of criticizing while gaining respect is difficult enough face to face with people you are familiar with.
On a forum through words alone to persons you know little or nothing about, it is more than just difficult.

   
Same again.
North, it is a public forum- this is one. Two- all the RW comment same way, they have the same reaction on your "romanticized " image".
We, Russian women, can EASILY see what stands behind your "trip reports" and Lena's behavior.
 You're tormenting both Lena and the kids.
The woman who will be your next wife will have her "rude awakening" VERY soon.
Or I don't know FSU women at all.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 06:38:17 AM
(no sugarcoating either)))
MissAmeno, my vision of the situation: I don't think Kape cares too much about how the kids feel, leave   Lena (and her parents) alone.
He is doing what HE wants to do- to continue to control everybody around.
Again, we, RW, know VERY well what it is- to have two kids of this age and to have to live without them.
We know what Lena is getting though. She is getting though hell and this "hell" will last for the rest of her life.
The fact she is "helping" North to date means she is SCARED and lives under a huge stress and control.
No doubt about it (unless she is the worst woman on this planet).
I can't see ANYTHING 'civil" about what Kape is doing. Nothing.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Fashionista on December 15, 2013, 07:06:30 AM
North, your wife has been seeing someone in Oslo? That would certainly explain this very strange story...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 07:33:53 AM
IMHO, it suggests that the OP holds their children as hostages in this situation: if the wife doesn't cooperate, the OP has all means to make the divorce and custody process very difficult for her. Also, perhaps she thinks that in this way she can at least have a say in picking the "least evil" as a stepmother for her children. This isn't friendship, this is an extreme egoism on OPs part and inability to see behind his own whims and desires, it's his eagerness to sacrifice anything, including the happiness of his children for satisfying his selfish little egotistic needs. The OP is insensitive to the feelings and needs of everyone else (his wife, his children, the women he is dating), but his own. And he is sugar-coating his egoism and cynical attitude as "friendship" and "perfect relationship."

Come on, guys. In your cheer-leading, imagine the reverse situation: a couple is on the rocks and discusses divorce after 13 years of marriage, there are two teenage sons, husband initiated divorce. Wife tells him: OK, I'll grant you a divorce, but I have my needs, so how about you will help me to find the new husband? Also, I need to let you know that the guys I am shagging now will be calling you at random times to ask for references for me, and also I have prepared the video presentation of our home and our children that I am showing to all the guys I am screwing while traveling through the country. I have several cities in my tour and likely I'll have sex in every one of 3-5 cities I plan to visit, it's possible that I'll have sex with several different people in the same city. Here are the photos of the guys I had sex with, here are the photos of the guys I will have sex with, - as you can see, they are all younger than you and are in a perfect physical shape, also they are very hot in bed. I'm sure you do not mind me telling you all these details because we are such wonderful friends with you and I feel I can share with you everything. Also, since you decided to divorce me, I feel that I am free to do anything I want now, and as  woman I have my sexual and other needs, and I need to find a new husband ASAP. That's ok that our divorce is not finalized yet. Oh, wait, we have not even applied for divorce yet. But we are going to file the separation papers soon. Some time soon. Maybe in half a year, perhaps longer.

What would you say about such woman?
Now, what makes the OP so much different? The fact that he has balls and thus has some sort of special rights?
+100
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on December 15, 2013, 07:38:28 AM
Faux
You are reading to much into those words about Lena
There is no romantic love left between us, and hasn't been for a while.
And there are reasons why Lena wanted to divorce.
Reasons we don't fully agree on, but still prefer to keep private between the two of us.
Looking back, I see clearly, that I could have done more to prevent what happened.

As I have probably said before, Lena agrees that she might come knocking on the door at some point in the future.
But, she would regard me as foolish, and also hurting the boys unnecessarily, to wait for that to happen.

I was worried about my boys to start with, but no longer, we have been able to keep our friendly "family spirit" alive through all of this.
And I don't see that changing with a new wife having a friendly relationship with Lena.
Yes, there will be large changes in our family, but they will be prepared for it, and we are moving slowly.
They fully understand so far, that when Lena moves more permanently out of our house, they will be seeing her slightly less.


There is an incredible amount of very good women above 35 with children, that would make for great partners to a lot of divorced lonely men in the western world.



Those words that you've written is all I have to make any assumptions on. Those are your words there guy, not mine. Either you wrote them as a lie or it is how you feel, no? True enough you've stated that there are other things at play that you haven't discussed. I won't venture to guess what those are but, I will give you this, if Lena has checked out of the marriage there isn't much you can do. However, there is nothing at all wrong in fighting for your marriage and your family. Winning her back is always an option. If she is the woman you've stated she is, it is what she wants as well. There is nothing you've written about Lena that would indicate she has checked out rather than just her playing with the cards you've dealt her.

In 5 or 10 years you'll be looking back to this period in your life and doing the "what if", "would'a, could'a, should'a" analysis as you are doing now. Hopefully, you'll still have the same relationship with your sons and Lena as well as the new woman and her brood.

Marriage sometimes can be very hard work. Especially when it plays against some personal goals or desires. Cutting your losses and moving on to the next new romance is the lazy way out IMHO. Hanging in there and making it work even if you have to do things and accept some things you don't like to keep your family together is the truer definition of a great father, husband and man. It's up to you to keep the family together. Expending your time, energy and resources doing that, is a much better lesson for you to be teaching those sons than the lesson you are teaching them now IMHO
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 07:48:47 AM
Faux, can you please explain a dumb Russian woman (me) what lesson he is teaching his sons?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 07:58:21 AM
Quote
They fully understand so far, that when Lena moves more permanently out of our house, they will be seeing her slightly less.
This tricky English! "Slightly less" when the mother lives 100 km away?
Sugar coating it is.
It is a huge drama pending, guys.
Like I said, Lena is not AM or WW- she is a FSU woman. This is the end of the world for her AND the boys.
Kape, wait till your sons are 15-16 yo.
You'll see all this "slightly less" and I don't want then to be in your shoes.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 15, 2013, 08:24:41 AM
Mies, Miss Ameno, and Doll:

The three of you (and some men) state that Northkape is "tormenting" his UW wife Lena.    I believe Lena did as much as Norhkape in creating this odd situation. 

My opinion is based on my very similar experience with the mother of my sons.  This will take some explanation. 


As with any divorce, Lena and Northkape clearly have some major differences.  Northkape is a gentleman and will not discuss the differences in public.   It is apparent that they have both tried to resolve the differences, particularly given the concern for their children.   

Lena wants a new life.  To start her new life, Lena has decided to move 100km to Oslo (something about her career).  It suggests that Lena feels any more effort to resolve their differences is futile.   Also, Lena wants the separation to be amicable. 

Can we assume that as in most divorces, it is impossible to prove that one party is more responsible or at fault for the end of the marriage than the other.   Both Lena and Northkape share responsibility.   So let us not blame Northkape for the divorce, nor blame Lena. 

Here is the critical fact:  The children remain with Northkape. How many women move away from their children and leave them with the father?   This fact is fundamental to understanding the relationship dynamics taking place.   This was the same as my divorce.  Based on my experiences and what I read from Northkape, it is apparent to me that:

-  Lena trusts Northkape to take responsibility for 90% of the parental duties.

-  Thus, we can assume that Northkape is a family man, something he has stated repeatedly.

-  Being a family man with teenagers who could use some maternal nurturing,  Northkape wants to remarry rather than become a committed bachelor dating many, many women.

-  Lena feels some guilt about abandoning Northkape, and she wants him to find a good wife so that he will be happy, stable, etc. (all important to being a good father).

-  Because of the exemplary qualities of Lena, Northkape is interested in marrying a UW.

-  Lena is in a good position to judge whether a particular UW would be good for Northkape, and Lena does not want the turmoil of a bad second marriage in the Northkape household where her children will reside.

-  Thus,  she feels the need to help Northkape find a UW, she wants the opportunity to express her opinion, and she even welcomes the opportunity to meet prime candidates.   


The situation mirrors my divorce from the mother of my sons.   I did not want a divorce.  She did.   She eventually moved three hours away, leaving me with a 17-yo son who had a problem requiring much parental attention.  My ex-wife wanted stability at my home with her younger son, and she wanted me to find a good girlfriend.  As an example of this, upon a chance encounter with one woman I dated, she hugged her.  She always asked about whom I was dating and wanted to know details.  She was not shy about making suggestions.  Indirectly, she introduced me to RW when she showed me how to meet women on the Internet. 

If I had not had experienced the same situation as Northkape, I too would have some doubts. 

I do disagree with one aspect of Lena's and Northkape's situation.  They need to stop delaying the divorce.  Did you read Northkape's words:  " Lena agrees that she might come knocking on the door at some point in the future..."   Such delays the inevitable and gives Northkape false hope.   He and Lena need to start their new life now without any hangover of such false hopes.   Northkape needs to find a new wife without Lena's assistance.  For sure, he needs to proceed slowly. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 08:46:11 AM
   

 
 
 

Here is the critical fact:  The children remain with Northkape. How many women move away from their children and leave them with the father?   This fact is fundamental to understanding the relationship dynamics taking place.    -  .   


   
Seriously- I have same question)) I actually know the answer- she HAS to move away, she was forced.
Do we know why they are divorcing other than "we're different"?
I forgot.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: lonedrake on December 15, 2013, 08:49:45 AM
Northkape,

 Well I have to admit you are able to handle criticism extremely well.  You must also realize that this thread was very deceptive. It started out as an update about a love story. Then the truth came out that you were getting a divorce. It is very odd to say the least and to say many of us felt deceived is an understatement. This leads us to believe you are deceptive in other things as well. This may not be true.....but you are responsible for this.

 I also realize you are not lying, you are just not revealing all of the facts. It makes more sense and is more believable.

 I have a new picture of how things are really happening. Maybe it's not correct,but I will say it anyways. Maybe others see this also. Lena has moved on. She may have a new love in her live. She knows you are a good person and wants to see you happy. She also knows your happiness is better for the children. The sooner she can help you find love the easier her life will be. I also suspect there is some depression on your part and she is aware of this. It is in her best interest and the interest of her children to help you find a new love.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 09:00:02 AM
   I have a new picture of how things are really happening. Maybe it's not correct,but I will say it anyways. Maybe others see this also. Lena has moved on. She may have a new love in her live. She knows you are a good person and wants to see you happy. She also knows your happiness is better for the children. The sooner she can help you find love the easier her life will be. I also suspect there is some depression on your part and she is aware of this. It is in her best interest and the interest of her children to help you find a new love.
I disagree.
Only something horrible can force the FSU woman out of her family and away from her kids.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 15, 2013, 09:01:32 AM
Seriously- I have same question)) I actually know the answer- she HAS to move away, she was forced.


She was forced?  No way Doll.   You are grasping for straws, and I understand the need to say this because abandoning the children seems so unnatural for a FSUW.

I recall that Northkape wrote Lena is moving to facilitate her professional career (evidently Oslo has better career opportunities for her than Northkape's city).


I did not force my ex-wife to move.  She deemed it necessary for two reasons:  her health and to facilitate starting a new life.

I know of a family in Russia where the mother abandoned her three children and the father raised them.  My wife says all the  kids have grown up to be good adults.  I met one and agree.  It happens. 
 

Quote
Do we know why they are divorcing other than "we're different"?
I forgot.

I and others have asked Northkape.  He is not disclosing the reasons, and I commend him for keeping it private.  He did say that he disagreed with the reasons and that he could have done more in the past.  All of us with failed relationships could have done more.  Yes?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: flitabout62 on December 15, 2013, 09:02:32 AM
I wasn't going to post on this thread, simply because I have a bit of an odd feeling in my gut about the other person when I began reading  it days before.  But know I must say my piece.  Also, maybe I'm much less experienced in relationships in general, but my preference for privacy and maintaining privacy is a core value of mine and I view this post from this position. 

Northkape, I find it unusual that you come back 13 years later to post all of these details of you and your wife after you profess that it is over between you. Certainly, you don't need encouragement that you are doing the right thing.  Relationships end all the time for many different reasons and you are clearly a man who is confident he knows best how to live his own life.  But I believe that your wife might value her privacy more than you value her privacy during this difficult time.  I want to be clear, after 13 years, this break up is more difficult on her than you.  Even if there is fault on both sides, she might see this as a much more significant failure than you.  So why drag her through the mud in a seemingly positive post from your perspective? 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 09:09:34 AM
She was forced?  No way Doll.   You are grasping for straws, and I understand the need to say this because abandoning the children seems so unnatural for a FSUW.

I recall that Northkape wrote Lena is moving to facilitate her professional career (evidently Oslo has better career opportunities for her than Northkape's city).
What "no way"? Lena willingly left her sons? BS. It is 0.0000000% chance.
Stuff in bold font is sugar coating  or *&#$%$.
I've learned to comprehend what people imply behind they words.
Look at the ACTIONS not words!
Kape is misbehaving as a married man and Lena is slaving for him out of fear.
A married man is dating tens of women? Give me a brake.
Trust me- I am smelling the blackmail big time.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 09:16:08 AM
flitabout62, you'r  asking why Kape is back with his story after 13 years?
He knows he is doing something awfully wrong so he wants support.
Like somebody said, cheer leading.
 
Plus he wants to picture himself very positive and attractive.
Sorry, none of Russian board members have bought it.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: lonedrake on December 15, 2013, 09:21:56 AM
Quote
What "no way"? Lena willingly left her sons? BS. It is 0.0000000% chance.
Stuff in bold font is sugar coating  or *&#$%$.
I've learned to comprehend what people imply behind they words.
Look at the ACTIONS not words!
Kape is misbehaving as a married man and Lena is slaving for him out of fear.
A married man is dating tens of women? Give me a brake.
Trust me- I am smelling the blackmail big time.

 Doll, We are all speculating as all the facts are not present.

 Here is an alternate theory. Lena gets work in Oslo. She falls in love with another man. Northkape is depressed and expresses suicidal thoughts. He constantly begs for her to come back. She feels guilt and looks for the best way to move on.

How do you explain that he was welcomed by her parents?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 09:27:33 AM
  How do you explain that he was welcomed by her parents?
They don't know.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 09:29:47 AM
   Here is an alternate theory. Lena gets work in Oslo. She falls in love with another man. Northkape is depressed and expresses suicidal thoughts. He constantly begs for her to come back. She feels guilt and looks for the best way to move on.

How do you explain that he was welcomed by her parents?
Possible.
You're right- the facts are not presented.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 15, 2013, 09:39:46 AM
Possible.
You're right- the facts are not presented.

Facts are presented about Northkape's explanation, omitting the personal reasons for a divorce (which we do not need to know, do we).  However, you present no reasons much less facts to explain that she was forced, other than your intuition and your opinion that no FSUW moves away from her children. 

Doll, you have given a good demonstration today of one aspect of RW mentality. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: calmissile on December 15, 2013, 09:44:52 AM
Facts are presented about Northkape's explanation, omitting the personal reasons for a divorce (which we do not need to know, do we).  However, you present no reasons much less facts to explain that she was forced, other than your intuition and your opinion that no FSUW moves away from her children. 

Doll, you have given a good demonstration today of one aspect of RW mentality.

I doubt it's RW mentality.  It is more like WW feminist mentality.  Attack the men regardless of the facts.     ;D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 15, 2013, 09:53:24 AM
Doll, We are all speculating as all the facts are not present.

That's always the case, so that is why we play detective.   

Quote
Here is an alternate theory. Lena gets work in Oslo. She falls in love with another man. Northkape is depressed and expresses suicidal thoughts. He constantly begs for her to come back. She feels guilt and looks for the best way to move on.

I am not buying the suicidal part.  I never felt suicidal in the same situation.  I felt down on several occasions (over 20 years of marriage).  In my case my wife is clinically depressed so any down days for me were mild in comparison. 

I am buying the guilt on her part.  She feels more guilt for leaving her children and less guilt for leaving Northkape. 

If he is indeed a family man, and if Lena is as glorious as Norhkape described her, he did oppose strongly the idea of a divorce.  Did he beg or just became obstinate about her not leaving?  I say the latter.  She would still have felt guilt without his begging.  She might have felt less guilt if he had begged.   

Quote
How do you explain that he was welcomed by her parents?

Excellent point, and something I forgot.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 15, 2013, 09:55:42 AM
I doubt it's RW mentality.  It is more like WW feminist mentality.  Attack the men regardless of the facts.     ;D

 :)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 09:56:12 AM
Doll, you have given a good demonstration today of one aspect of RW mentality.
Sure, this is who I am- RW  8)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 10:00:53 AM
Ok, no fighting guys)))
Speaking of "facts".
What are FACTS in NK story? He is still married,he is dating many Ukrainian women, he is keepkng the kids while Lena moved out.
 
Let's consider all these "facts"
 
(BTW I didn't ask to comment on the way I post here, ok?)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on December 15, 2013, 10:01:02 AM
Faux, can you please explain a dumb Russian woman (me) what lesson he is teaching his sons?

Seriously? I would think it is pretty obvious but, built on pure speculation like every other post here. He's teaching his sons that the family unit is quite expendable based on the needs and desires of the mother and father. Basically, the kids well-being is secondary to the whines of the parents. This is assuming that the split is 50/50 fault of them both. Wrong lesson for such young impressionable minds. The family unit, the love of the parents for each other and for them is all the kids know. NorthKape is destroying that albeit, as gently as he possibly can but the end result is the same.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 10:10:40 AM
Guys, helloooooooo! What are you doing here if you have problems with FSU women's mentality?
Welcome to China then  :D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 10:13:56 AM
Faux, I knew the answer, I just was  facetious.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 15, 2013, 10:16:29 AM
Any real man would put years into raising his children instead of being so obsessed with finding his next temporary love interest.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 10:22:10 AM
Any real man would put years into raising his children instead of being so obsessed with finding his next temporary love interest.
Hey, you, Russian feminist! HAHA
I agree 100%.
Or he will share the kids with their mother.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 15, 2013, 10:27:22 AM
Seriously? I would think it is pretty obvious but, built on pure speculation like every other post here. He's teaching his sons that the family unit is quite expendable based on the needs and desires of the mother and father. Basically, the kids well-being is secondary to the whines of the parents.


Exactly.  BTW, the children are 10 years old, not teens.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: calmissile on December 15, 2013, 10:29:36 AM
Seriously? I would think it is pretty obvious but, built on pure speculation like every other post here. He's teaching his sons that the family unit is quite expendable based on the needs and desires of the mother and father. Basically, the kids well-being is secondary to the whines of the parents. This is assuming that the split is 50/50 fault of them both. Wrong lesson for such young impressionable minds. The family unit, the love of the parents for each other and for them is all the kids know. NorthKape is destroying that albeit, as gently as he possibly can but the end result is the same.

Lets turn the speculation around a bit and look at it from a different perspective....
The mother abandoned her children.
The father wants a maternal substitute for the children and keep the family together.
It would be better for him to stay a bachelor and have no maternal influence of the children?  I don't think so!

In all this speculation about someone being at fault.........perhaps no one is at fault!  The parents for whever reason choose to not stay together.  Not the best solution for the children, but a loving new or modified family is better than two non-loving warm bodies staying together for the sake of the children.   I have seen this miserable scanario before.

The fact that the mother is not angry or hostile is a good sign that she wants the father to raise the kids.

Some of you have a strange outlook on terminated relationships.  Some couples can have friendly endings and maintain respect for each other.  My ex and I are a good example.  We dated for 10 years after our divorce.   In fact, she offered to do the wedding plans for Larissa and I.  Not all couples have to hate each other just because a marriage did not last forever.   I can remember many nights in the hot tub with my ex-wife remembering the good times we had together.  It does not mean that either party was wrong or someone got screwed over.  Sometimes adults simply realize they cannot be compatible living together any longer.

Unless I missed something, the mother of these children is seeking what she believes is best for them.  End of story!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2013, 10:31:23 AM
What "no way"? Lena willingly left her sons? BS. It is 0.0000000% chance.

Only something horrible can force the FSU woman out of her family and away from her kids.



 Ask yourself if you were in the same situation where the ex husband gets the kids and living in Norway. You would fight for your kids and I'm sure in Norway you would win and put a restraining order on your ex if he did do something horrible. I'll bet you're a lady with a passion for your kids and would never give up.....but FSU women aren't the same when it comes to kids. Some kids are well taken care of, some spoiled, some neglected and some put in orphanages and unless things have changed in the last few years, most kids are aborted.


If I had to guess with the story presented, I would say Northcape's ex is less into kids than most women because she's not putting up much of a fight for custody.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 15, 2013, 10:33:11 AM
Basically, the kids well-being is secondary to the whines of the parents.

Divorce is not good, but living happily in loving homes is far better for kids than living together in an unhappy home with no love.   


Quote
The family unit, the love of the parents for each other and for them is all the kids know.

Family unit - The kids will still have a family unit, them and each of their parents.

Love of parents for each other - Gone, can not be restored.    So it is now better to show the kids that their parents are in love, albeit with a stepfather and stepmother.

Love of children by parents - That is  most important, and hopefully it still exists.




Quote
NorthKape is destroying that albeit, as gently as he possibly can but the end result is the same.

What should he do differently given that Lena is gone and is not coming back.   He easily could have told Lena to take the kids with her to Oslo because he wants to be free to chase skirt from near and far.  He stayed, and that speaks volumes.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2013, 10:34:13 AM
Any real man would put years into raising his children instead of being so obsessed with finding his next temporary love interest.


To be fair to Northcape, he is taking care of his kids more often than divorced men with less custody. His kids should be his #1 priority but his #2 priority should be taken care of too whether it be love or sex and it's better to get that from a wife than a rent a woman.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 10:49:58 AM

To be fair to Northcape, he is taking care of his kids more often than divorced men with less custody. 
Because he is keeping the kids at his home!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Because he is keeping the kids at his home!


With the mother's permission or against her will? If it's against her will, I'm sure she would win in a custody battle but she has to have the will to fight if it's that important to her.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 15, 2013, 10:56:20 AM

To be fair to Northcape, he is taking care of his kids more often than divorced men with less custody. His kids should be his #1 priority but his #2 priority should be taken care of too whether it be love or sex and it's better to get that from a wife than a rent a woman.

I don't know the situation with this particular individual.  This is the internet.  We only know what people post here.  But he has relayed various facts that have me believing that this task of finding a new 'wife' is consuming him.  He goes and buys a car for driving around Ukraine so he can impress the women.  He enlists everyone, ex-wife, inlaws, this forum, to be his moron moral supporters.  Yet nowhere do I see anything that relates to the true aspects of divorce.

Divorce is the biggest financial hardship many of you will ever experience.  It takes a family income and divides it in half.   Now, add to that, expectations of a new wife, a short shelf life for earnings years left before retirement, and possibly a new stepson or daughter. 

Ultimately the ones who suffer are the kids.  Some of you on here, Gator, for instance, have sufficient funds that a divorce is simply a change of living arrangements with emotional toil thrown in.  But for most, divorce is a hellish situation made worse by a severely decreased income.

If NorthKape handles his business affairs the way he has handled his emotional relationships (as described to us) then he certainly is not stable enough to support two families (not his proposed ex-wife) of his two children and whatever his future wife brings as far as needs.  She will not be working when she moves to Norway.

Keep in mind that he has, probably, around 12 years left that he will be making money - maybe more if he's lucky.   He is extremely fortunate to have children that are growing up in his household.  That should be his focus.

I would have much more respect for the man if he actually got a divorce, settled himself into a new life without parading around Europe advertising to have someone come in to replace his not yet ex-wife.  Then he could give the children time to adjust to the new reality without a shotgun to their heads introducing them to a new step mother, who will be living with them.

It is a tough thing to do, especially with 60 staring you in the face, but no one guaranteed that life promises you a loving wife if you can't keep the one you chose.  Again, the children come first.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: TS on December 15, 2013, 11:05:48 AM
He sounds like a lot of men who go through a divorce and they want to show off to ex wife.  From his actions and what he writes you can tell he wishes they did not get a divorce and thinks by making her jealous she may want him back. 
In a couple years his head will be straight again and maybe he will get married again. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 11:08:09 AM
Agree to Jone 100%
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 15, 2013, 11:17:13 AM
Northkape, I find it unusual that you come back 13 years later to post all of these details of you and your wife after you profess that it is over between you. Certainly, you don't need encouragement that you are doing the right thing.  Relationships end all the time for many different reasons and you are clearly a man who is confident he knows best how to live his own life.  But I believe that your wife might value her privacy more than you value her privacy during this difficult time.  I want to be clear, after 13 years, this break up is more difficult on her than you.  Even if there is fault on both sides, she might see this as a much more significant failure than you.  So why drag her through the mud in a seemingly positive post from your perspective? 

Fitabout62, Northkape will not give direct answer, he doesn't do that if he feels any criticism towards him. He will come up with some general your attitude/your reading/etc. In his story he told us his wife asked for certain things to be changed and that he didn't thought she would actually go for divorce. Have you seen many people who after break up from happy long marriage immediately started to seek new wife/husband? And I mean those who did such thing and had everything alright with .. err .. umm ... (sorry Northkape can't find better way to phrase this) ... their head? If I had to guess the reason in this case I would go with anger. That he is angry with her decision and therefore pics of her in bikini on net and him in her face trying to replace her ASAP. Of course it is nothing more than a guess on my behalf. I doubt Northkape will tell real reasons to us and I doubt he even will be able to admit them to himself.

The major point in this story, she asked for something to change. That something was big enough for her to divorce. Northkape for whatever reasons couldn't (or wouldn't as we do not know) change that.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 15, 2013, 11:19:38 AM
This story is VERY interesting...


The wacky twists some of you put on this guy are strange though...


I think Faux pax analysis is most reasonable and worthwhile...


I don't buy the implications some of you are making about:  the (ex)wife living in fear or something like that...nor do I buy Gator's very optimistic scenario...because going around europe or Ukraine  actively looking for a wife right now doesn't seem appropriate given there are young kids that should be almost all consuming...at least right now...


some of you guys are just taking cheap shots at the guy now though...he probably isn't THAT bad a guy...maybe just a little desperate for some female company while he still has a sliver of mojo left in the tank...


Yeah those that are complaining about how the children will be ruined...I think that is a little overblown...but definitely needs to be a strong consideration....Faux Pax's lesson about what they will learn is likely true though...for better or worse.


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 15, 2013, 11:26:18 AM
Some comments have been made that perhaps she found someone new. I do not think it is fitting in the story Northkape told us. She wouldn't have been saying that one day she could return. Again if I had to guess I would go with career as one of the things she wanted and therefore some changes to their lives (may be relocating as example). From the way NorthKape described her I picture young ambitious women who wants to achieve something on her own. Baring in mind she stated she doesn't want to re-marry again I think she was hoping Northkape could make the changes she wanted and there is still feelings involved. Her driving 100km forth and back indicates that it is harder for her to move on with her life than she thought it would. That is the reason I think Northkape should have never involved his wife in seeking new SO.

I am not sure from where started comments about abandoning children. Northkape was clear kids will be with mum on weekends and holidays but due to her work through school weekdays will be with him.
I am not sure either why custody was mentioned. From Northkape comments it is obvious neither of them planning (or even considering) this, they have found amicable solution.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 15, 2013, 11:32:35 AM
I am not sure from where started comments about abandoning children. Northkape was clear kids will be with mum on weekends and holidays but due to her work through school weekdays will be with him.
I am not sure either why custody was mentioned. From Northkape comments it is obvious neither of them planning (or even considering) this, they have found amicable solution.

Nobody has posted that either parent is abandoning the children.  What has been pointed out is that northkape is considering himself and his needs, while using his 10 year old sons as a justification for finding a new mother, because he believes they need to be a "close family unit".
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 15, 2013, 12:02:54 PM
Natural posted something this summer that adds to today's discussion.


 

Don't worry, Norway is about the most feminine country there is and if it's a battle between the parents, the mother would be pretty messed up on drugs or something not to get the children. "My kids"? It's their kids together if I understand it correctly.
Divorce proceedings are pretty straightforward and the authorities does not meddle unless there is a conflict. It's a mandatory 1-year "separation" time though. The idea is, I guess, to facilitate some time that hopefully the couple might decide to continue the marriage.

Thus, Northkape and Lena can not divorce until she lived in Oslo for one year.  Also, if she wanted the children, she would get custody of them.  Who knows, maybe in a year upon divorce she will want to take them to Oslo.   

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 15, 2013, 12:05:58 PM
I have no idea why some people post the things they do on this forum.  I would guess that some post to assist others, some ask questions, hoping to glean some assistance for their own pursuit of happiness while others enjoy the idea of shooting down those who come on here with naive ideas of how to capture the elusive RussBabe.

However this is one thread that has confused me to the point that I, like many others on the forum, felt dragged through the mud of one individual's confusion of what should happen when a marriage breaks up. 

When I was going through a marriage breakup, I wished that my mother was still alive.  She would have boxed me on the side of the head and said that anything I needed to do to resolve the marriage I should have done.  It may not have saved the marriage, but I would have looked at things with a much greater vision than I had looking at the trees instead of the forest.

Now we are all here reading this travesty of an individual and his irrational dealings with a marriage that is splitting up.  Some are cheerleaders.  Some are thoughtful provocateurs.  Others are armchair quarterbacks. 

But the simple fact is that a marriage that is breaking up is a train wreck.  There is no 'good' answer.  I know that sounds cliche, but until a marriage is over, it is still salvageable.   There have been no documents signed.  There is no legal separation.  There are only children and a wife.  If my mother were alive today and reading this, she would be boxing your ears, NorthKape and telling you to have a couple of glasses of wine, get down on your knees, and find a way to make it work with your current wife.  Notice I said on your knees.  Because only their can you truly find the humility that I believe you lack in addressing your current situation.

This is, after all, a forum.  There are reasons why we all contribute to it.  I wish someone would have told me to do this six or seven years ago.  I'm an intelligent guy.  And fairly sensitive.  But even with the amicable split that I had with my wife, my kids still went through hell.  And you haven't (according to you) even disclosed to them what is in the offing.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 15, 2013, 12:14:17 PM
Boe, Northkape posted
Quote
For me to have an abundance of energy, joy and happiness available for my boys to share, I need to feel happiness myself also,
and this is where a new woman in my life can fill the void left in my soul.

I am on the fence about it. If it would have came from the guy who divorced some time ago it would have been different picture. As it coming from someone who is still sharing the roof with his wife it is open to different interpretations and must of them to be honest are not very nice.
Whatever it is, I think Northkape should slow down and figure out his own feelings first. He shouldn't jump into new relationship to prove anything to anyone including himself. And if he believes he is doing what he is doing for the right reasons then he at least should be more considerate to the feelings of those who surround him including his wife.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 15, 2013, 12:24:14 PM
I wish someone would have told me to do this six or seven years ago.  I'm an intelligent guy.  And fairly sensitive.  But even with the amicable split that I had with my wife, my kids still went through hell.

You make it seem as if you feel full responsibility for the divorce.  If in hindsight you believe your marriage was really worth salvaging 6 years ago, what is preventing you today form renewing the relationship? 

If OTOH you and your wife were miserable years ago, you should have divorced if indeed you had taken reasonable steps then to reconcile.  I say that because I am sure you would be just as miserable today unless there is more to the story.   

Jone, it is over.  You can not turn back the clock.  I am sure you learned from the experience.  Onward and upward!

Are you ready to have a relationship with a RW who will need 150%  from you if she marries you?


Quote
And you haven't (according to you) even disclosed to them what is in the offing.

And given their age they should not know while everything is in limbo.   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 15, 2013, 12:35:35 PM
You make it seem as if you feel full responsibility for the divorce.  If in hindsight you believe your marriage was really worth salvaging 6 years ago, what is preventing you today form renewing the relationship? 

If OTOH you and your wife were miserable years ago, you should have divorced if indeed you had taken reasonable steps then to reconcile.  I say that because I am sure you would be just as miserable today unless there is more to the story.   

Jone, it is over.  You can not turn back the clock.  I am sure you learned from the experience.  Onward and upward!

Are you ready to have a relationship with a RW who will need 150%  from you if she marries you?


And given their age they should not know while everything is in limbo.

It is, as they say, ancient history. 

But the marriage of the OP is not over.   Hell, they aren't even separated yet!

To quote the illustrious Winston Churchill,  "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

I would wish, for the OP, that if there is only a two percent chance that he can be happy in his current marriage, that he explore that two percent to the utmost of his ability, until the day that the marriage is over and that he is legally divorced.  If not, at least until the time that they are separated.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Fashionista on December 15, 2013, 12:41:41 PM
I know that sounds cliche, but until a marriage is over, it is still salvageable.   There have been no documents signed.  There is no legal separation.  There are only children and a wife.  If my mother were alive today and reading this, she would be boxing your ears, NorthKape and telling you to have a couple of glasses of wine, get down on your knees, and find a way to make it work with your current wife.  Notice I said on your knees.  Because only their can you truly find the humility that I believe you lack in addressing your current situation.



One thing I would recommend to better understand a Russian person  - don't cling to legal aspects. The marriage can be over long before any papers are signed, who cares about papers anyway.  Not in Russia.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Daveman on December 15, 2013, 12:42:04 PM

Quote

Boe, Northkape posted
Quote
For me to have an abundance of energy, joy and happiness available for my boys to share, I need to feel happiness myself also, and this is where a new woman in my life can fill the void left in my soul.
I am on the fence about it. If it would have came from the guy who divorced some time ago it would have been different picture. As it coming from someone who is still sharing the roof with his wife it is open to different interpretations and must of them to be honest are not very nice. Whatever it is, I think Northkape should slow down and figure out his own feelings first. He shouldn't jump into new relationship to prove anything to anyone including himself. And if he believes he is doing what he is doing for the right reasons then he at least should be more considerate to the feelings of those who surround him including his wife.



And therein lies the crux.  She's (seemingly) moved on or at least well into the process. He hasn't. 


If I had to venture a guess, I'd apply the cutting edge of Occam's Razor.  His behavior is most likely driven by that void in his soul. Pain is a powerful motivator. From one side, he can exact a little revenge for the hurt by involving the wife/in laws (and perhaps by this very thread, in all its aspects), which in itself can be a perceived yet temporary analgesic. The other side - perhaps, from his perspective, he can end that hurt of the void with a replacement woman.  Of course that rarely works long term.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on December 15, 2013, 12:48:19 PM
I don't know and wouldn't even pretend to know at what point NK needs to turn, cut bait and run. Only he knows that. But, with a pair of 10 year old twins and the fondness (he claims) he and soon to be ex still share, if it were me, I'd be doing everything I could possibly do to rejuvenate this marriage. It really doesn't sound like Lena has moved on, rather accepting the situation. Perhaps she made the ultimatum and he didn't comply.

NK AFAIK hasn't put the ending of this marriage in a time frame. He may have already did as I am encouraging him to do now. I do not know. Either way, him traveling the countryside of Ukraine looking for Lena's replacement, while still married to Lena doesn't indicate that he has. Think about that just a minute, he's looking vigorously for her replacement. Perhaps he finds doing that much easier than at least attempting to hold on to the original. Working to save the marriage is much better use of his time resources if, his children are actually his #1 priority
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 15, 2013, 12:51:57 PM

One thing I would recommend to better understand a Russian person  - don't cling to legal aspects. The marriage can be over long before any papers are signed, who cares about papers anyway.  Not in Russia.

Agreed....... and I do understand Russian women better than many.  But we haven't been told the whole story here.   And she has yet to move out, although has sufficient resources.  The Russian women I know would have been out the door and taken their kids with them.  Something about this pickled herring does not smell right.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 15, 2013, 01:04:56 PM
And therein lies the crux.  She's (seemingly) moved on or at least well into the process. He hasn't. 

No, she isn't. She still drives 100km to be with them as much as possible. Perhaps Northkape could say how many weekends so far she spend with boys in Oslo (without him)?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Daveman on December 15, 2013, 01:15:12 PM
No, she isn't. She still drives 100km to be with them as much as possible. Perhaps Northkape could say how many weekends so far she spend with boys in Oslo (without him)?


To be with their kids.  Otherwise, she's playing a manipulation game with him as well - change and maybe I'll come back.


The simplest explanation is still the most viable.  She want's a different life. He doesn't.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on December 15, 2013, 01:24:43 PM

To be with their kids.  Otherwise, she's playing a manipulation game with him as well - change and maybe I'll come back.


The simplest explanation is still the most viable.  She want's a different life. He doesn't.

As long as we're left to guess, I like the ultimatum angle  :D

Do this or I'm outta here. He didn't and she is
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 15, 2013, 01:27:46 PM
Hmm,

With the pictures of him with his ex-girlfriends and with all the women he's dragged through this thread, I wonder what the ultimatum could have been?

(Tom, I'm stealing your lines.)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 15, 2013, 01:37:33 PM

To be with their kids.  Otherwise, she's playing a manipulation game with him as well - change and maybe I'll come back.


If to be with kids then she could have been with kids every weekend in Oslo not in NorthKape's home.

You could be right about manipulation but also she may have realized she made wrong decision or she is finding hard to actually let go and move on or many other options. Whatever it is, she has her own place for few months now and still didn't move out.

Anyhow, I do not think either of them is completely moved on. Their actions are far from actions taken by two pragmatic individuals as Northkape wish to convince himself. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 15, 2013, 02:06:40 PM
Doll
I don't get it...
If you are writing for you own pleasure, and don't except me to answer..... well ....

MissA
Thanks for your polite and friendly answer..... smile  (I wrote this earlier in the day, I took a quick look through here just now.... and..... ok)

Me and Lena decided to divorce at the end of November 2012, we filed the separation papers in the beginning of August 2013,
the earliest I can have the paperwork ready for marrying again is in the middle of August 2014,
the earliest it would be possible to marry in Zags would probably be in the middle of September 2014,
all paperwork and waiting time is at the minimum another 6-8 months.
Meaning it would be unrealistic to expect a "new wife" living together with me before early summer 2015.
That will be more than two and a half years after our decision to divorce.

And we kept the divorce secret for a long time, our friends and Lena's family got to know, but my family still doesn't know.
My father died this summer and I am afraid my mother might die from the loss of him as well.
So I see no reason to make her feel even more sad about us, before the actual divorce is final.

It's not much different from your story is it...?

And I can't see much in the way of personal details about Lena and my boys,,
that is much different from what she used to have on her open Facebook page.

But she is no longer allowed to have personal info about her family on the Internet,
because of her starting to work in the justice department.
She is working with uncovering organized economical crime, done by illegal immigrants into Norway.
(Might influence some of the info here also at some point)

Fashion
I don't know what results she has so far in finding a man...
But I guess she would have told me if there was anyone worth telling about..
-
If she hadn't started working in Oslo, we would still be married, in my opinion.
There area a lot of factors at play here,, that facilitated the actual outcome.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 15, 2013, 02:37:19 PM

If she hadn't started working in Oslo, we would still be married, in my opinion.


This is news, suggesting that you and Lena are compatible other than workplace.  Why not move to Oslo and keep your family intact?   Surely  it isn't just about money?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 15, 2013, 02:53:28 PM
It's not much different from your story is it...?

No, it is not. You explained some important details now and I understand both of you better. Now there is only one question. Why you didn't want to move to Oslo? I understand it would have more likely completely changed lifestyle you all have use to but still that couldn't be the answer.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Jumper on December 15, 2013, 02:54:43 PM
Odd story for sure.
 It is unusual  for a woman to not want primary custody ,and even more unusual for her to help an ex  find a new wife/step mother,  for her children that will live with the ex , no matter how amicable the divorce or pragmatic the person might be.Children generally bring out strong possessive and protective emotions.

My suggestion is Northkape date/marry  Lena's mother.(if single)
If  using  a truly pragmatic approach as mentioned prior,and what started this whole adventure,
is this not the best all the way around?For ex ,for children ,for NK?

 :P  
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 15, 2013, 07:13:56 PM
So Lena left Ukraine to live with the OP in Norway and become his wife and mother of his children...

Northkape would much rather forego the family life and lose the wife and the mother of his children than to move to Oslo..

Okidokee! There you have it! That's life. Call him selfish or anything else you'd like, bottom line is that's a small pill to swallow for him than to apparently convince him to move to Oslo and lose the potential of bedding a new and much younger woman with new set of tits, new smell, new body to explore and not the 13 year ol' same ol, same old.

Then in between, he'll still have the woman look after his kids after she gets cleaned up so he can then do what ever he needs to do. Lena's is likely more Norwegian now than Ukrainian which is why she isn't putting up with it anymore.

No need to psychoanalyze any of this. Besides, it's always funny to me how so many relationship experts there really are in the forum built for the MOB context, LOL.

Alcoholics telling us how to be sober. OK.

Anywho...I'm not so sure what's so shocking for anyone here really. The bottom line is, Ukraine, like all the other MOB region, enables these types of things to happen. The OP knows full well a local woman would not put up with this silliness, so he goes back and fishes in Ukraine.

For some sanity, can people please refrain from saying 'FSUWs this, FSUWs that, blah, blah, blah...the bottom line is, a FSUW is enabling the OP to find his new wife in her country. a FSUW is apparently ready to 'give-up' her children to seek her personal identity living in OSLO on her own. FSUWs are currently meeting/participating/cajoling/ entertaining the very same MAN you folks are telling that FSUWs won't do, blah, blah, blah, blah..

The FSU is one of the orphan capital of the world so likely MANY FSUWs have no problem abandoning their children, OK? Many of you may not like how that sounds and many will get their panties all tied-up, but that's a fact.

Besides, a whole load of you have done the do-over thing, no? Some even within months, LOL. So what's the bid deal? Northkape is just one of the many, is all...

Why? Because he can. Why? Because places like Ukraine enables men like him. Like it or not, that's just the way it is.

So many marriage therapists, relationship experts...yet no one is getting paid for it.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 15, 2013, 07:43:44 PM
Faux P
Sorry, but I'm at a loss in finding a path to express my views in such a way that they can't be "misunderstood".
Lena has checked out of the marriage, period, and there is nothing more that can be done about that.
Even if given the option to return, I'm now starting to doubt that it would have been a better solution for our boys.

Gator
Your layout is as close to the truth as it could possibly be, based on my written story.
There is of course a lot more to it, that would take forever to explain in detail, but I will fill in some of the missing pieces..
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
It is apparent that they have both tried to resolve the differences, particularly given the concern for their children.

Yes, of course, she warned me early about what was to happen, but when she told me that she wanted to divorce,
she had already made up her mind and her decision was not up for discussion at all.
She is leaving,, trust me, there is no turning back when she has made up her mind, there never was.   

Lena wants a new life.  To start her new life, Lena has decided to move 100km to Oslo (something about her career).  It suggests that Lena feels any more effort to resolve their differences is futile.   Also, Lena wants the separation to be amicable
 
She was already working in Oslo when she decided about the divorce. She wants a refresh on her life, for several reasons, me being one of them.
Taking our boys away from their private school, their piano teacher, paint teacher and gymnastics teacher would be over her dead body.
These teachers are all personal friends of us, and have been together with our boys since they were four years old.
It's impossible for an outsider to understand our relationship with them, and their love for our boys.
So let this be very clear, she wants the boys to stay here in my hometown with me, whatever happens in the future.
Our boys are Lena's greatest pride and joy, and she (and me too) wants them to excel and participate in a broad range of activities,,
it's not enough for her that they are best of class in everything at school..... smile...
These goals can't be achieved without me, as I'm instrumental in being able to motivate them to participate and enjoy all of the hard work being laid on their shoulders.
Also, I make sure that they understand that they are free to quit at any time, so that they aren't feeling any pressure to perform.
Lena sees clearly how I'm able to connect with them and stay close to them, understanding the strength of the bonds between me and our boys.

Second after the boys comes her newfound career path, which she has worked so hard for, through many years of re-educating.
If I hadn't been willing to take care of the boys, she would have to end her career and find work in my hometown.
Since I was helping her all along to make plans, and seeing in her eyes the dreams about her future,
I knew that ending her career, would have crushed her heart in more ways than one. 
 
-  Being a family man with teenagers who could use some maternal nurturing,  Northkape wants to remarry rather than become a committed bachelor dating many, many women.

That's absolutely right, I was always a "one woman man" and short time relationships are not for me.

-  Lena feels some guilt about abandoning Northkape, and she wants him to find a good wife so that he will be happy, stable, etc. (all important to being a good father).

No, Lena has absolutely no feelings of guilt, but just as I would like to see her happy, she wants the same for me.

-  Thus,  she feels the need to help Northkape find a UW, she wants the opportunity to express her opinion, and she even welcomes the opportunity to meet prime candidates.

No, she knows perfectly well that I'm able to find the woman I want on my own. But she will gladly help me, with being available on the phone for a woman interested in me. 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Lonedrake
Thanks for the kind words.
Read above for answers,,,
Depression me...? never going to happen,,, if I ever had a bad day in my life, it's long since forgotten.

Why I was welcomed by Lena's parents?
They are very good friends, and especially Lena's mother likes me very much..
Truth is, they would be very disappointed if I didn't come to stay with them.
I wasn't feeling 100% comfortable about it, but Lena made me change my mind.
Without wanting to brag about good deeds, I think they also wants to show their gratitude,
and help me as much as they are able to, as a "thank you" for things that happened in our past.

more later
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on December 15, 2013, 08:17:15 PM

One thing I would recommend to better understand a Russian person  - don't cling to legal aspects. The marriage can be over long before any papers are signed, who cares about papers anyway.  Not in Russia.

Yes, I had some fairly serious involvement with two Ukrainian women; and found out several dates in that they were actually still legally married.

When I expressed my surprise, they both said something like:  Oh but my marriage has been over for X months.  We are living in separate rooms in our 2-3 room apartment.  Will get divorced when we can sell the apartment.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2013, 08:47:50 PM
Doll
I don't get it...
If you are writing for you own pleasure, and don't except me to answer..... well ....

     
You mean "expect"?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on December 15, 2013, 09:05:04 PM
You mean "expect"?

Maybe this is an exception to the expect idea.

Expect acceptances except when you have no reason to accept the other's expectation of whether you accept their exceptions of your expectations.

OK, time to get back to Sunday night football.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 15, 2013, 09:14:02 PM

Gator
Your layout is as close to the truth as it could possibly be, based on my written story.
There is of course a lot more to it, that would take forever to explain in detail, but I will fill in some of the missing pieces....


The reason I was able to make a reasonable guess about the dynamics in your relationship is the fact that my own divorce was so similar (my ex-wife left, and my sons stayed).

You say Lena felt no guilt, and I believe you.  Perhaps my ex-wife did not feel guilt as well, and helping me was simply an expression of her pathologically nice personality  ;). 

I really appreciate your elaboration of why the boys have stayed with you and did not move to Oslo.  Lena knows the divorce will be difficult for your sons.  By staying with you the boys keep their support of friends and network of private teachers in piano, art, gymnastics, etc.  This is a good plan, which can be modified as the boys get older (e. g., prep school in Oslo).    BTW, I commend you for spending the money to give your boys a private school education plus worldly extracurricular activities.   

I hope FSUW such as Doll can now understand and accept the fact that you will be the primary parent for your sons.    In essence, Lena trusts you to be a good father.  In contrast, I have met very few FSUW who would trust the father of their children with primary custody.   

Many people have painted you as a troubled if not bad man.  Please forgive us as the Modus Operandi here is to make quick decisions.   And you must admit that your story is different from most divorces.  Nevertheless, based on what you have revealed, you seem to be well adjusted and doing the best you can for your boys and for yourself. 

I trust you are not clinging to the false hope that Lena is coming back.  She is a beautiful, competent woman, and she will meet someone in Oslo.  If he embraces her career as did you, she might let him stay around for companionship. 

Finally, I see that you are 58.  I was 56 when my wife and I started to live outside the marriage, 58 when she moved out and I first wrote a RW, 59 when I made my first trip to Russia, and 62 when I divorced.   Unlike you, I had no experience with RW.  I wish that your journey progresses faster and on a straighter line than my odyssey.

Good luck!

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 15, 2013, 09:46:41 PM


But the simple fact is that a marriage that is breaking up is a train wreck.  There is no 'good' answer.  I know that sounds cliche, but until a marriage is over, it is still salvageable.   There have been no documents signed.  There is no legal separation.  There are only children and a wife.  If my mother were alive today and reading this, she would be boxing your ears, NorthKape and telling you to have a couple of glasses of wine, get down on your knees, and find a way to make it work with your current wife.  Notice I said on your knees.  Because only their can you truly find the humility that I believe you lack in addressing your current situation.

This is, after all, a forum.  There are reasons why we all contribute to it.  I wish someone would have told me to do this six or seven years ago.  I'm an intelligent guy.  And fairly sensitive.  But even with the amicable split that I had with my wife, my kids still went through hell.  And you haven't (according to you) even disclosed to them what is in the offing.


A trainwreck?  Really?  The end of this marriage doesn't sound like a train wreck to me.  I would think some of the features of a trainwreck would be a lot of anger and vengeful acts, lawyers, bickering, using the kids as weapons...that sorta thing.... From what I've read of this situation, it is a rather peaceful parting of the ways, for reasons we don't exactly know...


Regarding the children 'going through hell'...I don't know about that either...some kids are actually delighted when their parents divorce because sometimes people get along better when they are apart...


Not that I think NorthKape did all he could to keep the marriage together, or cared to the degree that maybe he should have..but that is just an unverifiable hunch...My feeling is, he probably had it within his control to keep the marriage together, but made a choice to cut bait...and maybe with good reason...hard to say.






Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 15, 2013, 10:01:34 PM
Fathertime,

You are a very wise man.   You have learned much from your experiences.  I look forward to reading more of your posts.   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 16, 2013, 12:13:10 AM
Mies, Miss Ameno, and Doll:

The three of you (and some men) state that Northkape is "tormenting" his UW wife Lena.    I believe Lena did as much as Norhkape in creating this odd situation. 

My opinion is based on my very similar experience with the mother of my sons.  This will take some explanation. 

Here is the critical fact:  The children remain with Northkape.

>>>> The fact is critical, but this is the fact we are  hearing from the Northkape, we do not know how did they arrive at that decision, and even if the OP told us about it, it would be only his side of the story.



How many women move away from their children and leave them with the father?   This fact is fundamental to understanding the relationship dynamics taking place.   This was the same as my divorce.  Based on my experiences and what I read from Northkape, it is apparent to me that:

-  Lena trusts Northkape to take responsibility for 90% of the parental duties.
  >>> trusting the father and leaving children behind are not synonyms, we cannot put an equal sign between them.

-  Thus, we can assume that Northkape is a family man, something he has stated repeatedly.
>>> yeah, a good family man usually travels on sex tours picking new wife before he filed the divorce documents. A good family man also parades his past and future women before his (15-20 or so years younger) wife, as a constant reminder to her what a desirable catch he is.

-  Being a family man with teenagers who could use some maternal nurturing,  Northkape wants to remarry rather than become a committed bachelor dating many, many women.
>>> do you somehow imply that the mother role is easily substitutable by ANY reasonably normal woman?

-  Lena feels some guilt about abandoning Northkape, and she wants him to find a good wife so that he will be happy, stable, etc. (all important to being a good father).
>>> this is waaaay too much of an assumption about Lena feeling guilt and her motives.

-  Because of the exemplary qualities of Lena, Northkape is interested in marrying a UW.
>>> I would dare to make an assumption that perhaps Norwegian women (unlike the UW's OP is meeting) would not be too open to go out and discuss marriage plans with a man who is 20+ years older than them, and who is still married, and who has two 10yo sons living with him. But that's just me.

-  Lena is in a good position to judge whether a particular UW would be good for Northkape, and Lena does not want the turmoil of a bad second marriage in the Northkape household where her children will reside.
>>> I think Lena would prefer the boys to live with her and spare them the turmoil of dealing with a Ukrainian step-mother all together. But is she given such an option - we don't know.

-  Thus,  she feels the need to help Northkape find a UW, she wants the opportunity to express her opinion, and she even welcomes the opportunity to meet prime candidates.
  >>> pardon me for asking, did you, while going through your divorce, welcome the opportunity to meet prime candidates and sex-partners of your soon-to-be-ex wife and mother of your children? How would you feel about such situation?


The situation mirrors my divorce from the mother of my sons.
>>> not necessarily, because you are you, and the OP can be completely different from you. Also your wife was American, and Lena is Ukrainian. Not the same deal, Ukrainians and Russians have very different family dynamics and relationships between children and parents.

Northkape needs to find a new wife without Lena's assistance.  For sure, he needs to proceed slowly.  >>> what Northkape needs is to divorce his current wife, or at least to start the divorce with his current wife, before looking for a new wife.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 16, 2013, 12:16:54 AM
They don't know.

Or she begged her parents to cooperate to get the Northkape finally let her go and give him what he wants so that he would stop tormenting her.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 16, 2013, 12:31:53 AM
And I can't see much in the way of personal details about Lena and my boys,,
that is much different from what she used to have on her open Facebook page.

But she is no longer allowed to have personal info about her family on the Internet,
because of her starting to work in the justice department.

She is working with uncovering organized economical crime, done by illegal immigrants into Norway.

So you are posting this "on her behalf" to destroy her career? Is this what this whole thread is all about?!?
Seriously. On a public forum, all the information, the cheerful and friendly and wonderful you. Really?!
This is very low.

Moderators, in the light of the new information disclosed by the Northkape, would you think it is reasonable to remove personal details and photos from the "Lena story"?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2013, 03:25:40 AM
Mies, Northkape is funny (not). If you click on his "nickname" you will find his website with his REAL name, then change Jan into Lena and you see the infor about her (with her pics).
(I invited her to RW forum BTW))))))).
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2013, 03:40:24 AM
Maybe this is an exception to the expect idea.

Expect acceptances except when you have no reason to accept the other's expectation of whether you accept their exceptions of your expectations.

OK, time to get back to Sunday night football.
:D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ranetka on December 16, 2013, 05:57:43 AM


That's absolutely right, I was always a "one woman man" and short time relationships are not for me.





Yeah, we know that.
 


Well I got my feet wet on that one.

In the following year I wrote with many and travelled to meet with some. Inviting those I really liked to come live with me for a couple of weeks while continuing to write all the time.
 Felt like an asshole dropping these beautiful, sincere young ladies off at the airport with a final goodbye, after having lived together with them for weeks. At least one was deeply hurt.

Took this 25 year old beauty along for a vacation in southern France. Sorry she was, when leaving for home after a month together.








Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 16, 2013, 07:24:05 AM
Mies, Northkape is funny (not). If you click on his "nickname" you will find his website with his REAL name, then change Jan into Lena and you see the infor about her (with her pics).
(I invited her to RW forum BTW))))))).

I think she is well-aware of the RWD by now, since it's the top 2nd and 3rd result when I searched her name on my iPhone. Right after the top 1st result: the "Travelogue" web site.
I also think she will not join the discussion (or else she would have joined it by now) - partly because they probably have some sort of "extortion agreement" designed by the OP, and partly because Lena wouldn't want to contribute anything about her life on a public forum, because the OP just told us she can't do that, because of her work requirements.

I still cannot believe what I am reading. So there is this poor woman whose only fault was to marry Northkape, give him two wonderful sons, and be a good wife to him for 13 years. She tolerated all his "in your face" women/girlfriends, and perhaps more than just that, she tried to be an achiever since the OP was constantly "stimulating" her with the stories of achievements of his ex. Then she does well: completes local education, finds great job, after Northkape refuses to cooperate on her requests - decides to move on. She takes down her public Facebook page, removes personal information from the internet since her employer requires her to do. And then her still husband tells her "Surprise surprise Lenochka, I know you are not allowed to keep your personal information in public access, so I've created a thread about you on the public forum, and am keeping the web site about us online, and I am not taking them down. Or maybe I will, maybe I won't."

And then this man comes to us, and lies to all of us that he is friends with his wife. Would a friend do something like that? Let alone husband and father of children they brought into this world together?

Maybe this is why Lena is so eager to cooperate with Northkape, maybe this is what she is afraid of - that he will keep posting more personal details and stories and photos and will populate the web with them to the point she will lose her job. Maybe he promised her to remove the web site and discussions from the web when he finds the new wife. Who knows.

This guy is 57, he has about +10 before his retirement. His wife is 36, she has 31 (!!!) years of productive career years ahead of her, she is so young, capable, beautiful and hardworking. And her "loving" husband decides, as the Russian saying goes  "так не достанься же ты никому". How??? How can anyone be that selfish and mean and just plain bad?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 16, 2013, 08:02:46 AM
Mies, Northkape is funny (not). If you click on his "nickname" you will find his website with his REAL name, then change Jan into Lena and you see the infor about her (with her pics).
(I invited her to RW forum BTW))))))).


Involving yourself in a stranger's relationship is rather pathetic.  Maybe it is time you get a more productive hobby Doll.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 16, 2013, 08:07:25 AM
Doll,

I too disagree with your contact of the man's wife. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ade on December 16, 2013, 08:53:07 AM
Doll,

I too disagree with your contact of the man's wife.

So you don't agree that a woman with two young sons should be told her ex-husband is spreading her personal history around the net? Let's just leave a colleague of hers to stumble upon it one day, right? Not my problem, right? All arseholes united no matter what I guess.

Good for you Doll. No matter if this story is exactly like Jan states, his ex should be told that he's being free and easy with their story on an open forum.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 16, 2013, 08:55:04 AM
Hello Ladies,

I am impressed by the degree of interest you have in this story.  Each of you raise valid points.  Do you believe your criticism of Northkape is totally accurate?  For  sure it is not balanced because none of you identify the good steps he is taking. 

For example, none of you commended him for agreeing to provide a majority of the parenting.  Many men, particularly in the FSU, tend to give their children after divorce a low priority, if not forget about them entirely.  Northkape knows that having young children at his advanced age is a disadvantage in finding a new wife, yet he wants his children to live with him.  Sweet suffering Jesus, you ladies need to acknowledge that.


My impression is that your thinking is tainted by your opinion that Northkape is a sex tourist.   Was he?  Is he?   

For sure he sampled a few damsels 14 years ago.   We do not know what he told these women, so how can we be sure he was dishonorable?  When questioned about sex in his string of current visits, he stated:

Quote
It was specifically important to avoid having sex as that would most certainly ruin my plans.

IMO Northkape is hurt by the divorce in three ways:  the loss of Lena, the breakup of his family, and the feeling that he is getting old.  The last point has prompted him to brag about the women he has known and the women he is meeting. 

For sure we can fault Northkape for his braggart style.  I have known many incredible women, yet I do not parade them around RWD.  In fact, very few RWD men have done this.    I consider this as his major fault.  And again I consider it more a testament to some shattered confidence than to a Don Juan libertine seducing women.   This issue is not uncommon, and I am sure he will reconcile it.  If not, the many UW will think something is wrong with him or that he has wind in the head.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 16, 2013, 08:59:13 AM
So you don't agree that a woman with two young sons should be told her ex-husband is spreading her personal history around the net? Let's just leave a colleague of hers to stumble upon it one day, right? Not my problem, right? All arseholes united no matter what I guess.

Good for you Doll. No matter if this story is exactly like Jan states, his ex should be told that he's being free and easy with their story on an open forum.

Why am I not surprised by this?  You attempted the same for BillyB.  Ade, for a man who does not believe in God, you sure do enjoy playing God.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 16, 2013, 09:09:49 AM
Ade

I didn't agree with Eduard calling Muzh at his office.  I didn't like the concept of you trying to get a hold of Billy B's fiancee and I don't agree with Doll trying to contact Lena.  This is, after all, an internet forum.  I happen to subscribe to many of Doll's points of view.  But I think that contacting someone outside of the forum, particularly in a family matter is wrong. 

I think the only exception to this philosophy is trying to ascertain when a woman is being accused of being a scammer. 

If you think about it, there are too many people here who make this forum more than it is:  A place to trade opinions and assist those in need.  But it is a cyberspace operation.  We all have real lives to live.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 16, 2013, 09:29:02 AM
Mies, you had many substantive comments.

>>>> The fact is critical, but this is the fact we are  hearing from the Northkape, we do not know how did they arrive at that decision, and even if the OP told us about it, it would be only his side of the story.

We have been told enough, and the explanation is Lena wants the children to not have more disruption in their lives.  They stay to keep their friends,  their private school, their coaches and teachers, their home, their neighborhood, etc. 

If this is not reasonably accurate, please suggest another reasonable alternative. 

Quote
  >>> trusting the father and leaving children behind are not synonyms, we cannot put an equal sign between them.

I like your term "equal sign."   So let us play with the concept.   Do you agree that the factors I listed just above must be in your equation?  Yet if "trust of the father" was not also in the equation, she would not leave them where they live today.

 
Quote
>>> yeah, a good family man usually travels on sex tours picking new wife before he filed the divorce documents. A good family man also parades his past and future women before his (15-20 or so years younger) wife, as a constant reminder to her what a desirable catch he is.

Your opinion based on your feelings, not his words.  See my earlier post. 


Quote
>>> do you somehow imply that the mother role is easily substitutable by ANY reasonably normal woman?

No.  That is why Norhkape must be very careful.  Or otherwise Lena would take her children to Oslo.


Quote
>>> this is waaaay too much of an assumption about Lena feeling guilt and her motives.

You are correct.  Northkape also said I was wrong.


Quote
>>> I would dare to make an assumption that perhaps Norwegian women (unlike the UW's OP is meeting) would not be too open to go out and discuss marriage plans with a man who is 20+ years older than them, and who is still married, and who has two 10yo sons living with him. But that's just me.

Retaining the children is a disadvantage in finding a wife.  However, he gives his children first priority.


Quote
>>> I think Lena would prefer the boys to live with her and spare them the turmoil of dealing with a Ukrainian step-mother all together. But is she given such an option - we don't know.

Discussed before.


Quote
  >>> pardon me for asking, did you, while going through your divorce, welcome the opportunity to meet prime candidates and sex-partners of your soon-to-be-ex wife and mother of your children? How would you feel about such situation?

My ex-wife was not open, and would never have done it.  She suffers from clinical depression (strong meds and therapy). 

She found a better caregiver than me (if you want to belittle me, read first about people married to depressed spouses).     However, I never wanted to meet the son-of-a-bitch.   As her caregiver, he felt it important to use her money (previously my hard earned money) to retain attorneys to go after my ass for issues we had previously agreed to  (she never won a case).   BTW, the son-of-a-bitch was older than me, in bad health and died a few years ago.   Her formerly best friend will not talk with her and in fact is now a friend of my Cossack wife.   Jesus, you hit a nerve.

 
Quote
>>> not necessarily, because you are you, and the OP can be completely different from you. Also your wife was American, and Lena is Ukrainian. Not the same deal, Ukrainians and Russians have very different family dynamics and relationships between children and parents.

Good mothers are good mothers everywhere. My ex-wife has some faults as do I; however, she was a good mother.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 16, 2013, 09:38:51 AM
So you don't agree that a woman with two young sons should be told her ex-husband is spreading her personal history around the net? Let's just leave a colleague of hers to stumble upon it one day, right? Not my problem, right? ...

Good for you Doll. No matter if this story is exactly like Jan states, his ex should be told that he's being free and easy with their story on an open forum.

I agree fully.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 16, 2013, 09:49:09 AM
Hello Ladies,

I am impressed by the degree of interest you have in this story.  Each of you raise valid points.  Do you believe your criticism of Northkape is totally accurate? 

Gator, I have the greatest respect for you, in all cases I learn much from your opinions and in many cases I agree with you. Here is what I feel when I read the development of this thread: I feel not very good, not quite happy.

And here is what I think about this. I presume you, as most of American posters on this site know that working for the Federal Government in DC is sort of a big deal: the job is very secure, great social benefits, very interesting, high responsibility, good comfortable salary, very difficult to get. So imagine, for a moment, that you are 36, and after long path you finally got your dream job. You also bought a new apartment, expecting to pay the mortgage from the salary this dream job would pay. So basically all your planning, life and finances are tied to this job. Now you are passing security clearance. The process is lengthy, every detail of your biography is checked and cross-checked, and you are asked to remove personal information from the web. So you do. And then your wife - maybe the same wife with whom you have amicably divorced, creates on the web several very revealing and extensive information sources about you, your private and family life, while knowing that your employer specifically requested to remove this type information from the web. What is your reaction? What are you going to do? Will you think that your wife is your friend?
This is just mind-boggling how some people act.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 16, 2013, 09:53:35 AM
My ex-wife was not open, and would never have done it.  She suffers from clinical depression (strong meds and therapy). 

She found a better caregiver than me (if you want to belittle me, read first about people married to depressed spouses).     However, I never wanted to meet the son-of-a-bitch.   As her caregiver, he felt it important to use her money (previously my hard earned money) to retain attorneys to go after my ass for issues we had previously agreed to  (she never won a case).   BTW, the son-of-a-bitch was older than me, in bad health and died a few years ago.   Her formerly best friend will not talk with her and in fact is now a friend of my Cossack wife.   Jesus, you hit a nerve.

Gator, if I hit the nerve, I am truly sorry. And I definitely never meant to belittle you, and I apologize if what I said came across that way. My point was that your story is not the same story as the OPs, although it has some similarities, and that your wife, or you, never subjected each other to the type of treatment the OP subjects his wife. That's all. You were civil with your ex, she was (I presume, based on your posts) civil with you. The OP isn't civil with his wife to.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 16, 2013, 10:06:46 AM
So you don't agree that a woman with two young sons should be told her ex-husband is spreading her personal history around the net? Let's just leave a colleague of hers to stumble upon it one day, right? Not my problem, right? All arseholes united no matter what I guess.

Good for you Doll. No matter if this story is exactly like Jan states, his ex should be told that he's being free and easy with their story on an open forum.


You really expect us to believe this reasoning.  Trying to save her from colleagues finding out is pretty funny reasoning but anyone with half a brain can see right through it.


Some of you guys display narcissistic behavior thinking your opinions are gospel.   Typically people getting involved in others affairs are the people who should be working on their own shortcomings.





Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 16, 2013, 10:18:24 AM

And here is what I think about this. I presume you, as most of American posters on this site know that working for the Federal Government in DC is sort of a big deal: the job is very secure, great social benefits, very interesting, high responsibility, good comfortable salary, very difficult to get. So imagine, for a moment, that you are 36, and after long path you finally got your dream job. You also bought a new apartment, expecting to pay the mortgage from the salary this dream job would pay. So basically all your planning, life and finances are tied to this job. Now you are passing security clearance. The process is lengthy, every detail of your biography is checked and cross-checked, and you are asked to remove personal information from the web. So you do. And then your wife - maybe the same wife with whom you have amicably divorced, creates on the web several very revealing and extensive information sources about you, your private and family life, while knowing that your employer specifically requested to remove this type information from the web. What is your reaction? What are you going to do? Will you think that your wife is your friend?
This is just mind-boggling how some people act.

This is a valid concern.   I thought the others who were trying to contact Lena were doing it for vindictive reasons.   

Lena should now what Northkape has presented if she does not already know.  However, I feel certain she knows.  Northkape has said nothing bad about Lena, nothing.   

Some men might express something negative, e. g.,   an example of a husband paying for the education of a young woman and now that he approaches his decrepit pension years, she leaves him to earn BIG MONEY.  Heck, that is part and parcel of marrying a much younger woman. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 16, 2013, 10:34:45 AM

Some men might express something negative, e. g.,   an example of a husband paying for the education of a young woman and now that he approaches his decrepit pension years, she leaves him to earn BIG MONEY.  Heck, that is part and parcel of marrying a much younger woman.

I've seen people using this line of argument on this board and elsewhere, and I do not think age difference plays a big role in the argument/claim. Remove the age difference and you will receive the normal family, where one spouse works to support the other spouse through college years, and then switch/take turns. I know quite a few people in USA, local Americans, who had done that. They are still married, but making an argument "the wife used her husband to pay for her education and now when she earns big money she leaves" is far-fetched. Especially in the case when couple have been married for 13 years and have 2 children. There are easier ways to get education rather than marry someone for 13 years and give birth to 2 sons for him. I vaguely remember the prices for surrogate parenting, and I vaguely remember cost of university education in Norway, and I think that if doing strict math "2 children vs. college education" - the OP still owes his wife quite a bit. But no, when we talk about children no one raises a question that the woman was used by the OP to produce two beautiful children. But when we are talking about woman's career, suddenly we start saying "perhaps she used her husband to get education." Why?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 16, 2013, 10:41:18 AM
Gator,

I have read much of what you wrote on this thread.  You have transference of your situation onto the OP's.  You compare yourself to him because he is of a similar age as you were when you got divorced.   You think this is similar to your situation.  IT IS NOT.   You did not have two kids going through their adolescence at the time your marriage was breaking up. 

The fact that the OP is substantially older than his wife only exacerbates the situation by making him that much more desperate to find a new love interest.  If he really had his children's interest first in his life, he would realize that the proper course of action is to allow the divorce to happen without introducing a new woman into the situation.  His course of action can only end in severe trauma for these children, no matter how lovingly he plays it. 

He is not thinking rationally.  Even though he tells everyone he is.  I note that my posts are the ones he ignores because, ultimately, I have been there and had to make these decisions for my children.   They were reasonably thought out because I had someone coaching me.   

The decisions that I made, I am happy that I did.   They were very difficult.  But then, I was not so desperate.

He should obtain counseling from a qualified marital counselor - not from this bunch of Armchair Quarterbacks.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 16, 2013, 10:47:43 AM
I've seen people using this line of argument on this board and elsewhere, and I do not think age difference plays a big role in the argument/claim. Remove the age difference and you will receive the normal family, where one spouse works to support the other spouse through college years, and then switch/take turns. I know quite a few people in USA, local Americans, who had done that. They are still married, but making an argument "the wife used her husband to pay for her education and now when she earns big money she leaves" is a big in far-fetched. Especially in the case when couple have been married for 13 years and have 2 children. There are easier ways to get education rather than marry someone for 13 years and give birth to 2 sons for him. I vaguely remember the prices for surrogate parenting, and I vaguely remember cost of university education in Norway, and I think that if doing strict math "2 children vs. college education" - the OP still owes his wife quite a bit. But no, when we talk about children no one raises a question that the woman was used by the OP to produce two beautiful children. But when we are talking about woman's career, suddenly we start saying "perhaps she used her husband to get education." Why?


It is the same as women complaining their men left after they finished law/medical school and built up their careers. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on December 16, 2013, 11:19:31 AM
I have seen/heard of several cases where the MD after finishing residency, internships, specialty training, etc., files for divorce.

Typically they did not get married until after receiving MD, but did marry sometime during residency, internship, etc.

During this period, the spouse often provides a good part of the family income.

But later, the MDs salary will skyrocket (in most cases) while the non-MD spouse's salary will be on less of a trajectory.

At divorce time, the non-MD spouse will scream (via their attorney) that they were taken advantage of by supporting the future high earning MD . . . and now that the money starts flowing in, they are being thrown to the curb.

I think these non-MD spouses typically get very good settlements both up front and over several years because they are viewed as victims.

But turn this around . . .

A pretty good payoff to provide some (maybe even > 50%) support for a few years to a budding MD . . . and then reap the big payoff from a divorce.

Depending on the specific numbers . . . it could prove to be a very high rate of return on invested money and time.  And maybe even having good sex all along.

Let's assume a scenario of no children produced.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 16, 2013, 11:28:20 AM
ne

It is the same as women complaining their men left after they finished law/medical school and built up their careers.

Similar, yes. But not the same. Because while men do their law/medical school - it takes a toll on family finances and on the family in general, as they are never around. I saw no facts in this story showing that OPs wife drained money from the family and was never around. She did raise their children and took care of the home, didn't she?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 16, 2013, 11:40:39 AM
ne
Similar, yes. But not the same. Because while men do their law/medical school - it takes a toll on family finances and on the family in general, as they are never around. I saw no facts in this story showing that OPs wife drained money from the family and was never around. She did raise their children and took care of the home, didn't she?


I don't know what she did in the relationship just as I don't know what the OP did.  I guess I am not understanding our discussion.  haha 


Did someone say she used the OP?  I don't think she used the OP. 


They were married and had some kids.  The marriage didn't work out and now it is over.  It sounds like they both got married for the right reason so I fail to see why there would be questionable intent on her part.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 16, 2013, 12:07:09 PM
They were married and had some kids.  The marriage didn't work out and now it is over.  It sounds like they both got married for the right reason so I fail to see why there would be questionable intent on her part.

I think so too.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 16, 2013, 12:47:15 PM
Jone,

You are feeling better today about your divorce decision than you were this past weekend.  Good.


You did not have two kids going through their adolescence at the time your marriage was breaking up. 

Having raised two sons I certainly know the difference between an adolescent and a high schooler.   Quickly, my high schooler had a serious condition.   It created much stress on his mother and me.  His mother could not deal with it on a daily basis.   



Quote
His course of action can only end in severe trauma for these children, no matter how lovingly he plays it.


Severe trauma?   That seems melodramatic.   


He has a plan.  IIRC, it will be more than a year before the kids know of another woman.  I do see a conflict - how can he be a full-time parent if he is driving around UA?   



Quote
He should obtain counseling from a qualified marital counselor - not from this bunch of Armchair Quarterbacks.

He could use some professional therapy.  However, analyzing suggestions and criticisms from people who understand UW is also helpful.  Opinions expressed at RWD should prompt some questions to ask his psychologist.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 16, 2013, 01:37:35 PM

You really expect us to believe this reasoning.  Trying to save her from colleagues finding out is pretty funny reasoning but anyone with half a brain can see right through it.


Some of you guys display narcissistic behavior thinking your opinions are gospel.   Typically people getting involved in others affairs are the people who should be working on their own shortcomings.

I am generally opposed to seeking out anonymous individuals.  However, in this case, Lena is not a participant on this forum, yet, her full name is tied to this forum, photos from her past presented.  She may very well be fine with this.  But, she may not be.  We do not know if she granted her permission.  This is why, when posters such as CalgaryCowboy come here and post a woman's full name, and she is not here to respond, the name is deleted.  Same when allegations are made that a particular woman is a scammer, if there is nothing online to support that claim.

Personally, I would not be okay with my kids' photos being displayed, together with their full names, so, were I contacted by someone in such circumstances, I would be grateful.  Therefore, I see nothing wrong with contacting Lena.  If she does not want strangers on a forum seeing her photos, or those of her children, or reading about her, she will have the information to take action.  If she has no issue with it, at least she is aware.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 16, 2013, 01:50:12 PM
I am generally opposed to seeking out anonymous individuals.  However, in this case, Lena is not a participant on this forum, yet, her full name is tied to this forum, photos from her past presented.  She may very well be fine with this.  But, she may not be.  We do not know if she granted her permission.  This is why, when posters such as CalgaryCowboy come here and post a woman's full name, and she is not here, we delete that name.  Same when allegations are made that a particular woman is a scammer, if there is nothing online to support that claim.


Personally, I would not be okay with my kids' photos being displayed, together with their full names, so, were I contacted by someone in such circumstances, I would be grateful.  Therefore, I see nothing wrong with contacting Lena.  If she does not want strangers on a forum seeing her photos, or those of her children, or reading about her, she will have the information to take action.  If she has no issue with it, at least she is aware.

That's actually a good angle to look at this. I don't know why folks engage in dogs and pony show in this forum to begin with without their wives' or SO's knowledge. Of course, the better thing would be having the OP offering up to his wife about what he's done (present their personal info with pictures) himself and give his wife the link for this specific discussion so she can participate and let us 'read' what she thinks of the whole thing first hand.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 16, 2013, 02:13:31 PM
Just in case some miss this comment ...

About my life with Lena and our divorce,,
any sane and polite person here, is free to call her and ask her directly,, I will not give the number, but where in the justice department she works, then it is possible to call there and ask for her by name. She speaks fluent Russian, Ukrainian, Norwegian and good English also.
a

BTW I believe Northkape should not have ever said anything like that as well as his wife more likely knows about this thread without anyone contacting her.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 16, 2013, 02:16:44 PM

Personally, I would not be okay with my kids' photos being displayed, together with their full names, so, were I contacted by someone in such circumstances, I would be grateful.  Therefore, I see nothing wrong with contacting Lena.  If she does not want strangers on a forum seeing her photos, or those of her children, or reading about her, she will have the information to take action.  If she has no issue with it, at least she is aware.


This type of behavior isn't an isolated occurrence.   If someone has to stalk family members to contact because they can't deal with internet disagreements, well, there is something very wrong with those people.   


He is their father and has every right to post pictures of his children if he wants.  Heck, people posts their entire lives on the internet now.  No one here has any right to tell the guy what to do or meddle in his relationship with his ex wife because they don't agree with him.   


As long as he isn't doing anything illegal of course.


If this was the first time, I could see your point of view.  However it isn't.  We will just have to disagree, but don't worry, I won't call your husband.  ;)


I would think the person was crazy if they contacted me because of an online argument.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 16, 2013, 02:18:31 PM
Just in case some miss this comment ...

BTW I believe Northkape should not have ever said anything like that as well as his wife more likely knows about this thread without anyone contacting her.


Yeah, call her at work so she can discuss something on a forum with a complete stranger.  There is a whole lot of strange going around in this thread.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 16, 2013, 02:27:14 PM

This type of behavior isn't an isolated occurrence.   If someone has to stalk family members to contact because they can't deal with internet disagreements, well, there is something very wrong with those people.   


He is their father and has every right to post pictures of his children if he wants.  Heck, people posts their entire lives on the internet now.  No one here has any right to tell the guy what to do or meddle in his relationship with his ex wife because they don't agree with him.   


As long as he isn't doing anything illegal of course.


If this was the first time, I could see your point of view.  However it isn't.  We will just have to disagree, but don't worry, I won't call your husband.  ;)


I would think the person was crazy if they contacted me because of an online argument.


The contact is not about an online argument.  It is about her personal information being posted, all of which is readily available. 


It does not matter whether or not it is legal to post the information, it is still a breach of Lena's privacy.  As I noted, she may be okay with it.


Given I do not post my name, you would have to hunt down my information to call me, or my husband.  That is different.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 16, 2013, 02:38:03 PM

Yeah, call her at work so she can discuss something on a forum with a complete stranger.  There is a whole lot of strange going around in this thread.

IMO, it isn't about 'any argument' from my POV.

The wife works for Norway's DOJ and according to even the OP, there are protocol for every employees to adhere to as a condition of employment i.e. privacy. Even her social media was apparently closed down....how is that any different than what had already been posted here and/or is available for everyone to see..more over, with 'private' information about their marriage/relationship affairs.

Plus, considering she's suppose to seek a 'new life and beginning' on her own, you don't see any of this as being silly? She can come here on her own, by virtue of Northkape's bidding and assistance, and tell everyone everything is just fine with her. Nothing wrong with that, no?

If not, as the ladies here contend, then the site or the mods can take them all down...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 16, 2013, 02:43:57 PM
I can see how, after reading missA's post, Northkape did give permission to contact his wife.  She, however, did not.  This does somewhat cloud the issue. 

My initial reading of this was that he was a whack job, giving such (unconfirmed) permission, almost as if he wanted someone to contact her to let her know how much he had been misbehaving.

But, hell, I've never been to Norway.  So how do I know how Norwegians think?  But if it were here in the United States and someone did what this guy has done, it could probably be means for a restraining order. 

I am now quite believing that we are all being dragged into the middle of an ongoing psychological battle that is being played out quite nicely, where we are all unwitting dupes participants.

Whack job confirmed.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 16, 2013, 02:52:37 PM

It does not matter whether or not it is legal to post the information, it is still a breach of Lena's privacy.  As I noted, she may be okay with it.




Yes, he violated his wife's privacy and it's pretty messed, imo.  With that said, it is no different to people on this forum violating other members privacy. 


 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 16, 2013, 02:54:09 PM
...Whack job confirmed.

Finally! I knew someone will see the light!

FWIW, this could well be a ploy to endanger Lena's chances of holding her position at her work. Purely speculative on my part (I still get my site-issued speculation card per month), but how hard will it be for a state's DOJ to surf the 'net and see Lena's personal information still so readily visible despite her admittance to adherence to their policy?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 16, 2013, 02:58:42 PM
IMO, it isn't about 'any argument' from my POV.


Sure, there will always be an excuse besides "argument".  I wonder what excuse someone had to contact Riv's girl in Ukraine.  I am sure the were trying to save her.


Quote

The wife works for Norway's DOJ and according to even the OP, there are protocol for every employees to adhere to as a condition of employment i.e. privacy. Even her social media was apparently closed down....how is that any different than what had already been posted here and/or is available for everyone to see..more over, with 'private' information about their marriage/relationship affairs.



That is still between her and her husband or ex or whatever they are.

Quote
Plus, considering she's suppose to seek a 'new life and beginning' on her own, you don't see any of this as being silly? She can come here on her own, by virtue of Northkape's bidding and assistance, and tell everyone everything is just fine with her. Nothing wrong with that, no?

If not, as the ladies here contend, then the site or the mods can take them all down...


This whole thread is silly.  That is why I stayed out of this thread up until someone decided to cross the line again.


The last thing she should do is come here and create more theater.   


 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 16, 2013, 03:11:52 PM

Sure, there will always be an excuse besides "argument".  I wonder what excuse someone had to contact Riv's girl in Ukraine.  I am sure the were trying to save her...

I'm outside the realm of any argument and is speaking solely from my own personal viewpoint. As for Riv's gal, I can't tell you who did that or if anyone actually ever did, so I don't believe that's even relevant here.


Quote
....That is still between her and her husband or ex or whatever they are...

Exactly! That was the point. So far we have only heard this from one of the two.


Quote
...This whole thread is silly....


Thread?!? LOL. The entire MOB industry is whacked.

Quote
.... That is why I stayed out of this thread up until someone decided to cross the line again....


The line was crossed when the OP posted personal information knowing full well such display of information in the internet is counter to his wife's employment policy. Seeing anyone have the right to post their own personal information, shouldn't those 'involved', who is (speculatively) NOT aware of such actions being made available for the consumption of the world wide web, also reserve the right to make the decision as well? I say that based solely on her employment requirement.

...and lastly, the OP himself already GAVE the permission to make contact with Lena. So this isn't like anyone will be doing anything counter to the OP's wishes, no?


Quote
...The last thing she should do is come here and create more theater....

Like those lookey-lous on the other side of the freeways slowing to a stop to gawk at the carnage on the other side of the freeway. C'mon, Live...it's human nature. Why else has most everyone stuck in this thread all through the weekend?  Folks love theaters and train wrecks.

Me, I just want to see once and for all if Elvis is still alive.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 16, 2013, 03:21:53 PM

Riv's situation is relevant because it shows this behavior isn't a one time deal.  There will always be an excuse to cross that line.   Ade trying to find Billy's girl so he can point her to a thread.   You don't really see this type of behavior unsavory?




...and lastly, the OP himself already GAVE the permission to make contact with Lena. So this isn't like anyone will be doing anything counter to the OP's wishes, no?



It is already clear the OP doesn't care about his family's privacy but that doesn't mean she would want strangers contacting her.  I would be offended if anyone stuck their nose into my relationship even if it is to point out what is being said online. 


Hell, I would think they were crazy to feel the need to contact me.


I am starting to wonder if this is normal behavior and it's common to contact strangers on the internet because of online discussions. 


Quote


Like those lookey-lous on the other side of the freeways slowing to a stop to gawk at the carnage on the other side of the freeway. C'mon, Live...it's human nature. Why else has most everyone stuck in this thread all through the weekend?  Folks love theaters and train wrecks.

I know and I hate to be a party pooper but she still would do better to stay out of the drama.  ;)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 16, 2013, 03:27:01 PM
Riv's situation is relevant because it shows this behavior isn't a one time deal.  There will always be an excuse to cross that line.   Ade trying to find Billy's girl so he can point her to a thread.   You don't really see this type of behavior unsavory?...

Sure it is. But it isn't relevant because Northkape already gave his blessings to do exactly that. There's world of difference bettwen *invasion of privacy* from an *invitation to verify*. Do you not agree?


Quote
...It is already clear the OP doesn't care about his family's privacy but that doesn't mean she would want strangers contacting her.  I would be offended if anyone stuck their nose into my relationship even if it is to point out what is being said online....

Understood clearly! And it goes without saying, that you'd like to know if anyone violated your right of privacy, don't you? Especially if you're so guarded with it because not least of which is your employment protocol and agreement and your future along with it, NO?


Quote
...Hell, I would think they were crazy to feel the need to contact me....

Not if there's vital information being conveyed to you that may prove important for you to know. Besides, she doesn't seem adverse to the idea for any of the ladies he's dating/boinking contacting her apparently to get some steamy love juice.


Quote
...I am starting to wonder if this is normal behavior and it's common to contact strangers on the internet because of online discussions....

This is nothing, man. I can tell you wilder stories than this I've come to know. Hence, I caution you not to make yourself too available with the MOB crowd too much.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 16, 2013, 03:29:15 PM


Understood clearly! And it goes without saying, that you'd like to know if anyone violated your right of privacy, don't you? Especially if you're so guarded with it because not least of which is your employment protocol and agreement and your future along with it, NO?



No, I don't want strangers contacting me.  I learned a long time ago that people will do what they want even if I don't like it.  It is better to concentrate on stuff I can control in my life and let those who want to do retarded stuff do retarded stuff.   I don't want any part of it. 


Sometimes ignorance is bliss.   :D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Daveman on December 16, 2013, 04:48:26 PM



Just a reminder:


It is not the responsibility of RWD pass judgements on or to vet either breaches of privacy or permissions granted for photos or information presented here for public consumption.  Each individual takes full responsibility for what he or she posts upon agreeing to the ToS when joining RWD.







Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: flitabout62 on December 16, 2013, 05:19:41 PM

 Ask yourself if you were in the same situation where the ex husband gets the kids and living in Norway. You would fight for your kids and I'm sure in Norway you would win and put a restraining order on your ex if he did do something horrible. I'll bet you're a lady with a passion for your kids and would never give up.....but FSU women aren't the same when it comes to kids. Some kids are well taken care of, some spoiled, some neglected and some put in orphanages and unless things have changed in the last few years, most kids are aborted.


If I had to guess with the story presented, I would say Northcape's ex is less into kids than most women because she's not putting up much of a fight for custody.

If you are a foreign citizen getting divorced while you live as an ex pat in Norway, there might be consequences for your residence permit. The dependent spouse might not get his or her residence permit renewed, if it was obtained based on a relationship (cohabitation) or marriage to a Norwegian citizen. Special rules apply, depending on your circumstances and the situation for the children (education, under the age of 18, etc). For more information, contact the Norwegian Directorate of Immigration at: http://paguro.net/destinations/moving-to-norway/all-documents-oslo/norway_oslo_divorce

I don't know the details in this case and I'm not sure I want to know any more... but, If this is correct information (and i'm not an attorney) it's possibly a "no brainer". Custody probably goes to the citizen and not to the resident who risk losing residency. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 16, 2013, 06:59:41 PM
So on this thread, there is too much information (for some posters' satisfaction) leading to an all-too-easy way to verify what NorthKape writes--something for which NorthKape is criticized.

On the BillyB thread, there is not enough proof of the marriage or other way to verify if the marriage took place (to some posters' satisfaction)--something for which BillyB is criticized.

Got it ...   :wallbash:

Northkape is, of course, free to post whatever he wishes about his life.  My point was, he doesn't have the right to post a third party's personal information (i.e., that of his soon to be ex wife) without her consent.  I didn't make a judgment about northkape.  AFAIK, his wife knows about this thread, or has no issue with it. 

AFAIK, Billy has not posted his full name, nor, unlike northkape, has he provided a link to his full name.  He doesn't even post "A''s" name.  So the two situations are not analogous, no matter how many straws you pull.

Please point to the post where I asked Billy to post a wedding photo.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 16, 2013, 07:42:55 PM

Sure, there will always be an excuse besides "argument".  I wonder what excuse someone had to contact Riv's girl in Ukraine.  I am sure the were trying to save her.


That one worked out well in the end.  I know he didn't think so at the time, but Zon would be the first to say that.  He is now with the woman he was meant to be with.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 17, 2013, 05:28:44 PM
I will reply in general, to some of the comments from the last two days,
even if it's repeating the same thing over and over again.

Lena isn't of the opinion that she has left our boys, seen from her side, we are splitting custody,
only difference is that I will be together with them more than she is able to do.
The reality however will be very different,,, as boys are getting older,
they certainly don't want to spend every weekend in Oslo the next five years.
I believe that Lena will be very frustrated when she realizes how difficult this will be.
My repeated warnings about the large holes in her plans doesn't get through to her at all.
This is also the reason she still stays at my home most of the time.
She is unable to let go of her total control of how they are dressed, haircut, appearance, ++,
and what they should be eating,, not eating and on and on.
(she is actually a very good mother that cares deeply about our lovely sons)

My "future wife" really needs to get along as a friend with Lena, if we are to survive this future together... smiles

As I have repeated several times,, I tried to save our marriage, but didn't do enough when it was still possible.
Later when Lena finally made up her mind to divorce, there was nothing more to discuss..

And no, Lena didn't work in the Norwegian Justice Department when the info in here was posted,
she is officially starting in her new job there, on the 2nd of January 2014.
Till now she has been working in the Norwegian Tax Department.

Crazy funny,, how some people suddenly starts worrying about these ordinary family photos of me and Lena,
that was posted here a almost a year ago. For some strange reason, having those photos on the "open" Internet
became so dangerous during this week, that there is an urgent need for getting in touch with Lena and warning her.
I have been active on a long list of forums since 1995, but for me this is the most bizarre event ever on the net.
The fact that these people are utterly afraid of revealing even the tiniest slice of their own identity,
on the dangerous "open" Internet couldn't bother me less.
But wanting to save total strangers they will never meet, from having their family photos on the "open" Internet,
I have no words for it.
 
Well, Lena hardly believed it either, before I read it aloud for her.
On the other side, she see no reason for me to have her photos in my postings on the net after we are divorced.
Which I totally agree with, I will have that part removed when I remarry and finish my story.
A decision that was perfectly acceptable for her also.

Jones
Sorry,, Don't feel left out... I read your comments, and as such didn't ignore you.... smile

Gator
That part about bragging, for me I would like to see a lot more "bragging".
Personally I would like to see more trip stories that are illustrated with photos of the women they met with.
This is after all "Russian Women Discussion" so what is up with this seemingly strange aversion to showing photos of Russian Women?
I'm not writing my story or posting the photos for the sake of the female audience here.
Actually I don't understand what is their interest in Russian women, but it doesn't bother me much either.
But I get the feeling that many here are trying to be somewhat "political correct" to not irritate these "ladies".
What I have found more depressing is their desperate need to "control" what is allowed or not, and trying to sway the moderators.
Anyway, for me not a big deal, as I will be gone from here within the next year, hopefully forever if I marry the right woman.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 17, 2013, 07:50:46 PM

Involving yourself in a stranger's relationship is rather pathetic.  Maybe it is time you get a more productive hobby Doll.
Why would you care who I contact to?
I am connected with hundreds of people though Internet- dare to judge too?
Posting on this board is NOT a productive hobby as well.
(забыла спросить, с кем мне общаться)))
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on December 17, 2013, 07:53:16 PM
Doll,

I too disagree with your contact of the man's wife.
You too please send me your official approval. Can't wait. 8)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 17, 2013, 08:07:43 PM

Involving yourself in a stranger's relationship is rather pathetic.  Maybe it is time you get a more productive hobby Doll.




[size=78%] [/size] SOME of these women get pretty emotional and upset and let their imagination run wild…yeah LFU  it is rather pathetic to start trying to contact posters wives or ex wives…the beauty of it is when the ex wife tells them to go fly a kite or ignores them. 
 
I find the man’s story interesting, and he appears to be doing a reasonably good job to this point despite the overly emotional outcry from a few that are getting a little too emotionally invested into this man's life.     


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 17, 2013, 09:05:29 PM


If this was the first time, I could see your point of view.  However it isn't.  We will just have to disagree, but don't worry, I won't call your husband.  ;)



 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 17, 2013, 09:20:28 PM
Why would you care who I contact to?
I am connected with hundreds of people though Internet- dare to judge too?
Posting on this board is NOT a productive hobby as well.
(забыла спросить, с кем мне общаться)))


Voicing my opinion about particular behavior isn't the same thing as caring.   Nah, no need for more judging, you seem to have it handled.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 17, 2013, 09:22:58 PM

Voicing my opinion about particular behavior isn't the same thing as caring.   Nah, no need for more judging, you seem to have it handled.


The funniest part is that she is whining about you judging...when that is precisely what she has done, and more....isn't that the type of behaviour a hypocrite engages in?


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 17, 2013, 09:24:40 PM



 SOME of these women get pretty emotional and upset and let their imagination run wild…yeah LFU  it is rather pathetic to start trying to contact posters wives or ex wives…the beauty of it is when the ex wife tells them to go fly a kite or ignores them. 
 
I find the man’s story interesting, and he appears to be doing a reasonably good job to this point despite the overly emotional outcry from a few that are getting a little too emotionally invested into this man's life.     


Fathertime!


Unfortunately, this kind of behavior is more and more common.  People don't like what is written and end up getting people fired or trying to mettle in relationships.


I have seen a few cases where a guy has been fired because people didn't like what he wrote online.  It's cowardly behavior.


Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 17, 2013, 09:25:44 PM
The reality however will be very different,,, as boys are getting older,
they certainly don't want to spend every weekend in Oslo the next five years.
I believe that Lena will be very frustrated when she realizes how difficult this will be.
My repeated warnings about the large holes in her plans doesn't get through to her at all.

Northkape, am I right in thinking Lena believes that by having boys on weekends she will have more time with them? Also have Lena thought about alternative arrangements if the ones that planned now will not work for whatever reason?
Are you open to the possibility that with time she could change mind and asks for boys to stay with her through the week?

Quote
Which I totally agree with, I will have that part removed when I remarry and finish my story.
Speak to mods about it now as later it could be not that easy to remove anything as you may think.


Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 17, 2013, 09:32:07 PM

The funniest part is that she is whining about you judging...when that is precisely what she has done, and more....isn't that the type of behaviour a hypocrite engages in?


Fathertime!


We all judge.  Some moreso than others.   We are all human after all even though some people think they are above human.  The problem is when people escalate these disagreements to a point that could screw up lives. 


This isn't normal behavior.


As I said to GQ, I would be pissed off if some stranger started contacting me.  I don't want unstable people contacting me because they don't like what someone said online. 


 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 17, 2013, 09:39:48 PM

The fact that these people are utterly afraid of revealing even the tiniest slice of their own identity,
on the dangerous "open" Internet couldn't bother me less.
But wanting to save total strangers they will never meet, from having their family photos on the "open" Internet,
I have no words for it.
 
Well, Lena hardly believed it either, before I read it aloud for her.
On the other side, she see no reason for me to have her photos in my postings on the net after we are divorced.


Which I totally agree with, I will have that part removed when I remarry and finish my story.
A decision that was perfectly acceptable for her also.


I hope that satisfies all those worried about Lena.  I thought Lena would be too busy to spend time adding to the story.   

Most of you will probably think of another reason to criticize Northkape. 


Quote
That part about bragging, for me I would like to see a lot more "bragging".
Personally I would like to see more trip stories that are illustrated with photos of the women they met with.
This is after all "Russian Women Discussion" so what is up with this seemingly strange aversion to showing photos of Russian Women?

A few tasteful photos are splendid.  OTOH a parade of photos of many different women makes it seem IMO as if women are being objectified.  That is disrespectful. 

You have not done this, yet the mere listing of many different women will make some overreact and scream "sex tourist." 

Personally, I thank you for your update and trip report.  IMO we do not get enough T/Rs, and not only have you given us one, it is a very interesting story, an Old Norse Saga.   :D  And your photos add immeasurably to the saga.   

I find it odd that few RWD members expressed their appreciation.  Several criticized you, yet said nothing commendable about the good things you are doing.   I guess that is the way some people are. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on December 17, 2013, 09:47:02 PM
yet the mere listing of many different women will make some overreact and scream "sex tourist." 

Hmmmm, let's think back now . . . have you ever been one of the first in a thread to scream 'sex tourist.'    8)

These forums where the posts exist for eons are a bitch!!   :o
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 17, 2013, 09:47:37 PM

We all judge.  Some moreso than others.   We are all human after all even though some people think they are above human.  The problem is when people escalate these disagreements to a point that could screw up lives. 


This isn't normal behavior.


Agreed...those that go around making harsh judgments should keep still, and not complain when they have someone judge their judgments! In addition those that start pulling stuff outta of thin air should not be whiny when the same thing happens to them. 


Let the man tell HIS VERSION of the story, and be reasonable but firm in assessing as posters like Faux Pas was in this instance.  There was no need to imply he was abusive/domineering or sex tourist.


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 17, 2013, 10:00:47 PM
Hmmmm, let's think back now . . . have you ever been one of the first in a thread to scream 'sex tourist.'    8)

These forums where the posts exist for eons are a bitch!!   :o

I believe Kuna preceded me in suggesting Pike a sex tourist.  Do not forget that Pike's writings in that thread and elsewhere (including his prior identity) were more than listings. 


Where else did I utter such words, oh great scribe in the sky? :D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on December 17, 2013, 10:07:23 PM
Where else did I utter such words, oh great scribe in the sky? :D

I have to get to bed; but I will find tomorrow (maybe) and post.

What wine to you want with the words you will eat?   :D
A very cheap meal, so perhaps a Merlot?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 17, 2013, 10:09:15 PM


I find it odd that few RWD members expressed their appreciation.  Several criticized you, yet said nothing commendable about the good things you are doing.   I guess that is the way some people are.


You got that right Gator...now imagine living for a long period of time with someone like this...I'd last about a week...this sorta behaviour needs to be dealt with in some form or it only gets worse and worse....


I liked the pictures this man showed us, and his story was unfolding..he wasn't perfect...but he gave no indication of being an abusive sex tourist like a few were implying/saying.


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 17, 2013, 10:14:31 PM
I have to get to bed; but I will find tomorrow (maybe) and post.

What wine to you want with the words you will eat?   :D
A very cheap meal, so perhaps a Merlot?

When you find something, try to evaluate the effect that outside forces may have had on me.   :D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 18, 2013, 01:24:02 AM
Fathertime & Gator
Thanks for the friendly words...

MissA
Have you forgot what I told about our boys daily life.. smile

Taking our boys away from their private school, their piano teacher, paint teacher and gymnastics teacher would be over Lena's dead body.
These teachers are all personal friends of us, and have been together with our boys since they were four years old.
It's impossible for an outsider to understand our relationship with them, and their love for our boys.
So let this be very clear, she wants the boys to stay here in my hometown with me, whatever happens in the future.

It took us years to find and build a relationship with these gifted persons.
And they have used years, building a loving relationship with our boys.
It is not allowed and not advisable to take the boys out of school and we would never, ever allow it.
So they couldn't stay in Oslo on weekdays, it's quite simply not possible.

Lena loves all of what I'm giving of my life to her sons, she see and understand my position in their lives.
I'm learning and teaching them about all possible things young boys could find interesting in our "universe"
They are bright and multi talented boys with a never ending desire for exploring and learning,
so we do our very best for providing a rich and saturated environment for their life's in all of it's aspects.
As much as she loves her boys, she truly wants them to be with me, as their best friend and father, always available for them.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 18, 2013, 08:55:08 AM
   
Several criticized you, yet said nothing commendable about the good things you are doing.   I guess that is the way some people are.

Gator, I did compliment OP in the past on the good things he did to help his wife adjust in the new society. I don't know how good of a father he is because the only thing I know is that his words ("I am a good father") do not match his actions (he seeks the new wife actively before he is divorced or separated, and doesn't not take his children into account). Actions speak louder than words.

Some things are unacceptable and inexcusable. Physical abuse, emotional abuse, financial abuse, putting your partner/spouse at risk, intentionally and knowingly putting spouse's career and well-being at risk, and some other - are examples of unacceptable and inexcusable behavior. 
If a husband "beats the crap" (here, me cursing) out of his wife occasionally, or endangers her health/life/well-being it is irrelevant how generous he is, whether he paid for her college education, and whether he is a good father for their joint child. He is a bad husband, and he is bad for his wife. There are no excuses for such behavior.
If a husband regularly and consistently abuses his wife emotionally, it doesn't matter that he helped her to get a degree and is a good father for  their two young children, he is still a bad husband and he is bad for her. (Imho, not a good person too.)

In my eyes, what the OP was doing all along throughout the 13 years of his marriage, and what he keeps doing now - constitutes a moral abuse and is inexcusable. Unlike physical violence, this is, also  imho, a forgivable offense, but not and excusable one. If he corrected his behavior and were eager to "walk in his wife's shoes" - I think she would have forgave him and would say "our past mishaps are water under the bridge." But he isn't doing anything like that. On the contrary, i see a specific and consistent pattern in his behavior.

Finally, if a person whom I trust wholeheartedly suddenly started behaving unethically, if he or she used his/her close knowledge of me and his/her privileged access to my life, in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and I would cut all connections with this person. If the person kept jeopardizing my success and happiness - I would go after this person and won't feel a slightest hint of remorse. I am very kind, gentle, loving, friendly person, but the broken trust has to be atoned for.

And as an additional remark. Right now a couple of our friends are battling for custody for their child after they split up 2 years ago. They were never married, although lived together for 10+ years and he is listed in the child's documents as her father. Mother was very cooperating all the time through their separation, and suggested her ex joint custody. She earns about x3 times more than the guy, so she always paid for everything and never asked for any money. Since they separated she paid for her ex's and child's trips (East <-> West coast) and gave him money to help with his expenses. When they lived together she paid for apartment and all their bills, and she understood that the split has been difficult for him financially. Do you know how the guy paid her back? After he brought the child to her, and when he saw that his ex-girlfriend is pregnant from another man, he returned home, found the lawyer and sued her for "abduction of their child." He timed the lawsuit to the week she was due delivering the baby, and collected all information secretly, while talking to her friendly on skype and learned when she was scheduled to "deliver" second baby. Since she had C-section the day before the court hearing was scheduled, she could not fly to a different state. Since she was not present in the court, the court in the husband's state ruled that the child should be returned to father immediately and until the next hearing father received temporary 100% custody. The judge in mother's state ruled that the child should stay with mother, but that decision has been overruled by the decision in father's state, because the mother's state gave decision about custody split, and father's state gave decision about child abduction. In the past 6 month poor woman, while taking care of an infant and working full-time, and paying her ex for child expenses, also spent 20K for lawyers and this is only the beginning. And now goes the most interesting part. The husband's version of the events, that he eagerly shares with people who do not know his wife or the whole story, and the version that he tells to their child "the mother found another man and ran away to a different state, abandoning her child. She also immediately got pregnant again, and she doesn't want to do anything with her first child, therefore I should have full custody." I know the guy really well, and he used to be our friend. Had we not known his wife, and had we not observed this story from a close distance, we would have easily believed the guy, that his ex indeed decided to move on for her career, or for another man, and abandoned her child and doesn't care about her child too much. I do not draw any parallels to the OP's story, but since observing this case, I am very cautious when forming an opinion about  who is the good parent and who is the bad parent, and whether mother is a career-oriented woman who abandoned her children or picked her job over her children.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 18, 2013, 09:21:15 AM
   

Finally, if a person whom I trust wholeheartedly suddenly started behaving unethically, if he or she used his/her close knowledge of me and his/her privileged access to my life, in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and cut all connections with this person. If the person will keep jeopardizing my success and happiness - I will go after this person ruthlessly, will explore all legal means, and will find the way to give this person a reciprocal lesson, as painful (emotionally and financially) as possible. And when doing this, I won't feel a slightest hint of remorse. I am very kind, gentle, loving, friendly person, but the broken trust has to be atoned for.


Oh yeah baby. Right on!!!
 
Been there and done that.
 
None of that "that was then, this is now" bullshevik that prevails in this country.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 18, 2013, 09:24:18 AM

Oh yeah baby. Right on!!!
 
Been there and done that.
 
None of that "that was then, this is now" bullshevik that prevails in this country.

Yeah, I modified my post not to ignite the sacred battle  >:D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 09:25:43 AM
Yeah, I modified my post not to ignite the sacred battle  >:D


Doing what you have to do in order to be happy is a good thing.  Revenge, on the other hand, will end up hurting you more than the target. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 18, 2013, 09:29:30 AM

Doing what you have to do in order to be happy is a good thing.  Revenge, on the other hand, will end up hurting you more than the target.

LMFAO
 
Boy, I heard that so long ago and listened. It was not until my back looked like a sieve that I said "the hell with this, hit her as hard as you can." Guess what? Tame as a lamb and no more holes in my back.
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 18, 2013, 09:35:54 AM

Doing what you have to do in order to be happy is a good thing.  Revenge, on the other hand, will end up hurting you more than the target.

I always balance my response and weigh it's cost to me and the impact on another person. Being a pedantic and boring person as I am - has benefits too. When planned methodically, it's not a revenge, it's a lesson to show a person that what they did was wrong, and that they should not be doing it again, and definitely not to me. Plus, since I am lazy and soft person and not prone to aggression, if I am forced to go through the trouble of some unusual activity, and forced to experience severe negative emotions, take my time and attention from happy and pleasant activities and spend them on something less pleasant - I need to make sure that my "transaction costs" are also covered "виновником торжества." That's all.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2013, 10:02:42 AM

LMFAO
 
Boy, I heard that so long ago and listened. It was not until my back looked like a sieve that I said "the hell with this, hit her as hard as you can." Guess what? Tame as a lamb and no more holes in my back.


I am not certain I would classify that as revenge.  I think I would call it sticking up for yourself.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 10:09:10 AM

I am not certain I would classify that as revenge.  I think I would call it sticking up for yourself.


No, I would say stopping the person through lawful ways was sticking up for yourself.  Not allowing him/her to push you around and showing you won't be pushed around.


Quote
find the way to give this person a reciprocal lesson, as painful (emotionally and financially) as possible


This would be more of a revenge thing, imo.  It is understandable to want to lash out at someone who caused you pain, but that is not good for your own healing.  I have a family member who has that type of approach.  She if a very giving person but has a very hateful side if she feels you crossed her.  It ends up hurting herself more than anyone because she can't let go of the bad feelings.


Trying to make someone pay won't help those bad feeling go away. 


Mies, please see my response in response to your post in response to mine.  :P
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 10:11:53 AM

LMFAO
 
Boy, I heard that so long ago and listened. It was not until my back looked like a sieve that I said "the hell with this, hit her as hard as you can." Guess what? Tame as a lamb and no more holes in my back.


I didn't say be a pushover.  Sometimes you have to fight the good fight.  I am saying revenge isn't the answer.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 18, 2013, 10:20:42 AM
Mies, I will address the vengeful angel  ;)later, but first Northkape.

   
Gator, I did compliment OP in the past on the good things he did to help his wife adjust in the new society. I don't know how good of a father he is because the only thing I know is that his words ("I am a good father") do not match his actions (he seeks the new wife actively before he is divorced or separated, and doesn't not take his children into account). Actions speak louder than words.

Actually, Northkape's overall actions make complete sense to me now after his recent elaborations.

My summary: 

1.  Lena made the decision to divorce and move to Oslo.  And so far, their divorce is very orderly.  This enables both of them to develop and implement  a "succession plan" as in good business.   This is far better than reacting to aggressive attorneys. 

2.  Surely you agree that Northkape is entitled to pursue his personal happiness. 

      a.  His happiness plan is to be a good father by being the primary caregiver and not moving the boys,  thus minimizing disruption to their lives.   

      b.  He is a family man and does not want to be a wild bachelor chasing the local women and enjoying tons of free sex (and I guarantee you this is real easy at his age, been there, done that).  Thus, his happiness plan is  to remarry (a successor). 

      c.  The new wife must have some special qualities given he has two young sons living with him, and this will require that he proceed carefully.

      d.  He has the highest regard for Lena, and this makes him think highly of UW.   So he thought he would again explore the romantic possibilities of Ukraine. 

3.   One problem with meeting UW is that he must travel to Ukraine.  Part of the overall plan is for Lena to move to Oslo, and after that she will not be around to parent the boys while he is on a trip. 

Hence, Northkape had to travel early as part of the succession plan.  And his wife Lena not only agreed, she helped him in almost every aspect of his trip and meetings with UW.  So where does my logic come asunder.   



Quote
In my eyes, what the OP was doing all along throughout the 13 years of his marriage, and what he keeps doing now - constitutes a moral abuse and is inexcusable.

Just because you feel Northkape is morally abusive does not mean the mother of his children feels the same.  Obviously Lena stopped loving him.  We do not know the reasons, and maybe Lena can not definitively state them.  Regardless, the marriage is dead.   


Quote
Finally, if a person whom I trust wholeheartedly suddenly started behaving unethically, if he or she used his/her close knowledge of me and his/her privileged access to my life, in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and I would cut all connections with this person.

Are you accusing Northkape of this?  If so, this is not the Mies I know, as this IMO is purely an emotional response. 

After being besieged by the RWD Protect Lena Committee, Northkape clarified this yesterday.  He says everything is kosher.     And Lena did not cut all connections, so it seems that either Northkape is correct, or Lena is very understanding and forgiving.


 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 18, 2013, 10:30:24 AM
As a warning to those who may tread upon thee, please change your signature to read,

Quote
find the way to give this person a reciprocal lesson, as painful (emotionally and financially) as possible

Having witnessed some instances of revenge, I do not believe revenge is good for anyone.  It is an ugly emotion, requiring much negative energy.  If "love and forgiveness" don't work, forget about it.   If it continues,  move on to more positive pursuits.  If you are stalked, call law enforcement or get an attorney. 

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 10:37:43 AM
...This isn't normal behavior.


As I said to GQ, I would be pissed off if some stranger started contacting me.  I don't want unstable people contacting me because they don't like what someone said online.   


Maybe you will be and maybe you won't. Maybe you'd look at it as abnormal behavior, maybe you won't. It may have to do with what information you may deem vital in the future. But that's speculation regarding YOUR personal outlook and situation.


But staying within the context of this story, the fact is the OP INVITED anyone to contact his wife if they so choose. Fact #2 - the wife apparently is NOT averse, unlike you, to be contacted by complete strangers during her hubby's wife-hunting activities and such activities would included his reporting of his trips.

So, either cases is hardly even remotely close for comparison to be offered as a point in this debate.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 10:44:02 AM
What the OP does with his life and lot is his own personal business. No one needs to accept or like it although telling your tale on a public forum is an open subscription to read/hear what people think of it. Deal with it.


I complimented the OP for being civil with his wife despite the looming divorce they face. Unlike the many experiences and paths people had taken with their OWN respective divorces, some of whom are in this thread offering silly opinions; my compliment doesn't go beyond what he deems he needs to do considering his personal situation and circumstances as a 'father' to two teenagers in their present *highly-impressionable* ages.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 18, 2013, 11:53:48 AM
Actually, Northkape's overall actions make complete sense to me now after his recent elaborations.

Hence, Northkape had to travel early as part of the succession plan.  And his wife Lena not only agreed, she helped him in almost every aspect of his trip and meetings with UW.  So where does my logic come asunder.   

After being besieged by the RWD Protect Lena Committee, Northkape clarified this yesterday.  He says everything is kosher.  And Lena did not cut all connections, so it seems that either Northkape is correct, or Lena is very understanding and forgiving.


I'm not so sure.
 
Gears are not meshing here. We have been painted a picture of an Ukrainian woman who is...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_1XdSqBQUg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_1XdSqBQUg)
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 18, 2013, 12:17:03 PM
Just because you feel Northkape is morally abusive does not mean the mother of his children feels the same.   

And this is why I do not tell his wife, or even Northkape, what each of them should doblic his  I merely tell the Northkape, in response to his public statement, what I think about his actions.
 

Are you accusing Northkape of this?  If so, this is not the Mies I know, as this IMO is purely an emotional response. 
Me? No, why?
But if my close friend (it doesn't matter if this is spouse or just a friend) betrayed me and used my trust to jeopardized my career and my well-being for some unclear selfish motives, - this is how it would make me feel, and this is it how I would proceed. Perhaps you don't see it this way, but for me this is a very serious matter. If the person have done something wrong once and it's over/already a sunk cost - sure, it's cheaper to let it go. If he/she continues to do it, and does it - then reaction is not a revenge, it's the mean to stop bad actions against yourself.
There is a protocol for dealing with the terrorists. If they kept hostages but then released them voluntarily - it is one thing. If they still keep hostages and keep threatening and are continuous danger - they will  be treated differently. And it will not be considered a revenge.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 18, 2013, 12:18:26 PM

I'm not so sure.
 
Gears are not meshing here. We have been painted a picture of an Ukrainian woman who is...[cold as ice]. 

Two clues:   She has lived with the Norse for 13 years and she chose to become a tax auditor. 

Maybe you know some hot-blooded tax auditors who by comparison make PR women seem like dowdy, matronly English ladies having afternoon tea.  I don't.   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 18, 2013, 12:24:13 PM
Quote
Are you accusing Northkape of this?

Me? No, why?

But if my close friend (it doesn't matter if this is spouse or just a friend) betrayed me and used my trust to jeopardized my career.....There is a protocol for dealing with the terrorists.....


You say you do not accuse Northkape of such yet you discuss betrayal and terrorism at length in a thread all about Northkape.  It is difficult for me (and probably other readers) to not infer you are talking about Northkape. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 18, 2013, 12:26:12 PM
As a warning to those who may tread upon thee, please change your signature to read,

Having witnessed some instances of revenge, I do not believe revenge is good for anyone.  It is an ugly emotion, requiring much negative energy.  If "love and forgiveness" don't work, forget about it.   If it continues,  move on to more positive pursuits.  If you are stalked, call law enforcement or get an attorney.

Gator, how do you suggest to "continue and move on to positive pursuits"  if an ex-friend shares information which is considered defamation of character and because of it you lose your job, cannot get a new one, and lose your partners and other friends, also lose your home because you lost your job and can't pay mortgage?

Now, to make example less dramatic and more relevant to the OP's case: How do you suggest to "continue and move on to positive pursuits" if your employer or main source of business asked you to remove any private information about yourself from the web, and the person who is still your spouse and claims to be your friend tells you "darling, I will remove information after I find a new husband, but now we are still married and information stays there, help me find new husband." In my  eyes, this is extortion. This can affect Lena's job, and if she looses job, she can have problems with paying for her new apartment.

Please, do answer me what will be your actions in such case. In simple language, just list steps what would you do.

As in:
- roll my eyes
- sigh and say "Oh, God"
- forget about the story and start looking for new job

or perhaps something else.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 18, 2013, 12:27:17 PM
You say you do not accuse Northkape of such yet you discuss betrayal and terrorism at length in a thread all about Northkape.  It is difficult for me (and probably other readers) to not infer you are talking about Northkape.
It was a sarcasm.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 18, 2013, 12:31:15 PM
It was a sarcasm.

Why didn't I laugh?  Is this one of those AM don't understand RW humor?  And I thought I had always done well with closing the humor gap. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 18, 2013, 12:37:09 PM

I'm not so sure.
 
Gears are not meshing here. We have been painted a picture of an Ukrainian woman who is...[cold as ice]. 



Two clues:   She has lived with the Norse for 13 years and she chose to become a tax auditor. 

Maybe you know some hot-blooded tax auditors who by comparison make PR women seem like dowdy, matronly English ladies having afternoon tea.  I don't.

So you ARE saying the woman has coldly calculated this whole thing and Northkape is just an innocent bystander.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 18, 2013, 12:43:11 PM

Please, do answer me what will be your actions in such case. In simple language, just list steps what would you do.

As in:
- roll my eyes
- sigh and say "Oh, God"
- forget about the story and start looking for new job

or perhaps something else.

Three something else's:

1.  Ask her to remove it.

2.  If someone in management started to ask questions, I would say "That is my crazy wife.  She is upset over my divorcing her and moving here to take this important position working for you.  Much of what he wrote is his wild imagination.  He will soon tire of this."   

3.  If management listens to the above and deems it harmful to my job, I would obtain an injunction (I am not an attorney but this should compel Northkape to cease and desist, remove everything).   If that did not work, sue for malice.   This is not the Wild, Wild West.  We have rule of law.   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 18, 2013, 01:00:01 PM
 
So you ARE saying the woman has coldly calculated this whole thing and Northkape is just an innocent bystander.

Objection Your Honor.  The Proscecutor is leading the witness. 

Innocent?  Using the word innocent means you believe there is wrongdoing.   

Northkape's revelations about Lena and her job came only after nosy people (I being one) wanted to know more about why they were divorcing because Lena seemed far better to me than any other possible candidate he could find, and they were already good friends.   

He answered our questions, withholding the obviously personal stuff (and I hope no one feels that they have a right to know Northkape's and Lena's personal matters).  He disclosed Lena is a tax auditor.  His critics accepted his answer yet used it as fuel to criticize him even more.  And when he answered the accusation about jeopardizing Lena's career, his critics did not accept his answer because it would make them shut up.     
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 18, 2013, 01:06:06 PM
Objection Your Honor.  The Proscecutor is leading the witness. 

Innocent?  Using the word innocent means you believe there is wrongdoing.   

Northkape's revelations about Lena and her job came only after nosy people (I being one) wanted to know more about why they were divorcing because Lena seemed far better to me than any other possible candidate he could find, and they were already good friends.   

He answered our questions, withholding the obviously personal stuff (and I hope no one feels that they have a right to know Northkape's and Lena's personal matters).  He disclosed Lena is a tax auditor.  His critics accepted his answer yet used it as fuel to criticize him even more.  And when he answered the accusation about jeopardizing Lena's career, his critics did not accept his answer because it would make them shut up.   

Okay, so you are infering that this is all Lena's doing. Actually, if I remember correctly since I haven't been following this saga intently, I believe that is what Northkape claimed.
 
That Lena shot the butler with a .45 in the vestibule after retrieving the key to the safebox.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 18, 2013, 01:30:49 PM

Okay, so you are infering that this is all Lena's doing.

Again planting words in my mouth.  Lena and Northkape share responsibility for what happened to their marriage.  Both share parental responsibility for their two sons.

I will summarize it with the term "Irreconcilable differences."

If you belive there has been wrongdoing, both are complicit.  Frankly, I do not see any wrongdoing.  Northkape married a very young woman and had two delightful children whom they love very much. 

Lena married so young that she had never accomplished much in the way of professional achievement or the like.  She would like to know the joy of success so she made the effort to educate herself in a demanding profession.  As it developed, she has much talent and it caught the eye of people with the big interesting  jobs.  She is taking such a position even though it requires her to move.   End of marriage.

I left out the part where somehow Lena and Northkape stopped loving each other.  I can't wait to hear the imagined reasons for that.  Most will say it will be Northkape's fault even though we know nothing about Lena and she will not testify.  I doubt she will testify as she seems too classy for such pettiness.   

I ask that if anyone has a reason for why the two lost their romantic feelings, please tell me the reasons why they fell in love.  One answer would be just as much a speculation as the other.  Developing feelings of love is just as complicated as losing feelings of love.  I defy anyone here to say otherwise.   


Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 01:37:06 PM

Maybe you will be and maybe you won't. Maybe you'd look at it as abnormal behavior, maybe you won't. It may have to do with what information you may deem vital in the future. But that's speculation regarding YOUR personal outlook and situation.



No, it isn't speculation on my part.  Yes, I consider someone getting so wrapped up in an online message board to the point they feel the need to intervene is abnormal.


It doesn't matter if it was invited or not. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 01:51:28 PM

No, it isn't speculation on my part...

Good. So that part is taken care of and out of the equation...

Quote
...Yes, I consider someone getting so wrapped up in an online message board to the point they feel the need to intervene is abnormal...

Which, in the subject context, is exactly what you're doing since the OP gave his permission for others to do so, and the OP's wife's acceptance to being contacted by strangers welcomed despite your opposition to it. Thus, that, can be considered 'abnormal behavior'. Since this decision/s is/are none of your business, who is now being 'abnormal'?


Quote
...It doesn't matter if it was invited or not.

In this context and subject, it does matter. You may not agree to it but it doesn't mean you need to get so wrapped up in an online message board that you feel compelled to intervene based solely on your own personal perspective.

 :-\
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 02:09:29 PM
Good. So that part is taken care of and out of the equation...

Which, in the subject context, is exactly what you're doing since the OP gave his permission for others to do so, and the OP's wife acceptance to being contacted by strangers despite your opposition to it. Which, btw, is really none of your business what the OP and others feel normal behavior with them.




I don't see why having permission negates what I am talking about.  It still is abnormal regardless if permission is given or not.  People just didn't like what he posted.   


Permission is just another excuse as is her job and whatever excuses was made for contacting Riv's girl and trying to hunt down Billy's woman.


Regarding it not being my business, I am voicing my opinion such as you and other members here.   As long as I stay within the rules of this forum, I am entitled to do so. 


You can hunt my family members down and show them our disagreement or just accept we don't agree.


If you don't see why one of those decisions would be strange, then I don't know what to say.  Maybe you can sugar coat it and start making up more excuses like a job is a jeopardy, or a woman needs to be saved from an internet bad man. 


Deep down, it really is about not liking what someone said online and people can't deal with it.  I have seen this type of behavior online before and seen jobs lost all because people can't deal with disagreements.






Quote
In this context and subject, it does matter. You may not agree to it but it doesn't mean you need to get so wrapped up in an online message board that you feel compelled to intervene based solely on your own personal perspective.

 :-\






Even if someone gave me the permission to kill them, I wouldn't feel the need to do that.  The OP didn't have the right to give anyone permission to contact his ex wife.  It is only hers to give.  Regardless, it is just another excuse to take disagreements too far and is abnormal. 





 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 02:22:09 PM

I don't see why having permission negates what I am talking about.

Because one (your personal perspective) had nothing to do with the other (the context of the subject discussion).

Not sure why you can't seem to digest with what is actually written in context. OP stated anyone is welcome to contact his wife. His wife apparently is open to getting contacts from strangers. It is not binding to whatever else YOU think is right/wrong, normal/abnormal.

Quote
... It still is abnormal regardless if permission is given or not.  People just didn't like what he posted.   


Permission is just another excuse as is her job and whatever excuses was made for contacting Riv's girl and trying to hunt down Billy's woman.


Regarding it not being my business, I am voicing my opinion such as you and other members here.   As long as I stay within the rules of this forum, I am entitled to do so. 


You can hunt my family members down and show them our disagreement or just accept we don't agree.


If you don't see why one of those decisions would be strange, then I don't know what to say.  Maybe you can sugar coat it and start making up more excuses like a job is a jeopardy, or a woman needs to be saved from an internet bad man.


Deep down, it really is about not liking what someone said online and people can't deal with it.  I have seen this type of behavior online before and seen jobs lost all because people can't deal with disagreements....


That's your own supposition. This just makes you guilty of the exact accusations and charges you make of others.


Quote
...Even if someone gave me the permission to kill them, I wouldn't feel the need to do that...


Argument non-sequitur.


Quote
...The OP didn't have the right to give anyone permission to contact his ex wife.  It is only hers to give.  Regardless, it is just another excuse to take disagreements too far and is abnormal.

Oh so now you're taking the position like the others you villified. So the point really is *_______*?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 02:25:42 PM
One had nothing to do with the other. Not sure why you seem fixated with what is written. OP stated anyone is welcome to contact his wife. His wife apparently is open to getting contacts from strangers. It is not binding to whatever else YOU think s right/wrong, normal/abnormal.




This coming from a guy who routinely trashes this forum with his opinions about the mob'ers.  TFF!


Quote
Argument non-sequitur.

So is him giving permission but you seem latched onto that concept. 


Quote

Oh so now you're taking the position like the others you villified. So the point really is *_______*?


I made my point many times.  You just don't like it.  Too bad, and you can try and twist it all you want but in the end it is abnormal behavior to contact strangers because you don't like what someone wrote.  Yes, it is my opinion but unless someone states an absolute truth like 1 + 1 = 2 then I pretty much take what is written as opinion.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 02:30:06 PM

This coming from a guy who routinely trashes this forum with his opinions about the mob'ers.  TFF!...

Argument non-sequitur.

Quote
...I made my point many times.  You just don't like it....

Your point then was...I'll presume...

Quote
...  Too bad, and you can try and twist it all you want but in the end it is abnormal behavior to contact strangers because you don't like what someone wrote....

To completely eliminate was is otherwise a given factual statement of invitation to contact someone, which in your need to intervene because you feel it isn't right for anyone to abide within those terms, somehow separate you from what you believe as abnormal folks.

LOL.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 18, 2013, 02:30:27 PM
Again planting words in my mouth. 
 

Well, I guess that was obvious when I said you were inferring.  ;)
 

Lena and Northkape share responsibility for what happened to their marriage.  Both share parental responsibility for their two sons.

I will summarize it with the term "Irreconcilable differences."

If you belive there has been wrongdoing, both are complicit.  Frankly, I do not see any wrongdoing.  Northkape married a very young woman and had two delightful children whom they love very much. 


This is where you and I disagree.
 
The man was quite older, much older than her. He knew exactly what he was doing.
 
Was she? Please tell me she had the savvy of this man who was around her father's age.
 

Lena married so young that she had never accomplished much in the way of professional achievement or the like.  She would like to know the joy of success so she made the effort to educate herself in a demanding profession.  As it developed, she has much talent and it caught the eye of people with the big interesting  jobs.  She is taking such a position even though it requires her to move.   End of marriage.
 

Question answered. She had no farging clue as to what she was getting to. Still, she should (wo)man up to her mistakes, right? He is just an innocent bystander who innocently offered her nothing but love.


I left out the part where somehow Lena and Northkape stopped loving each other.  I can't wait to hear the imagined reasons for that.  Most will say it will be Northkape's fault even though we know nothing about Lena and she will not testify.  I doubt she will testify as she seems too classy for such pettiness.   


No pettiness from this guy here. It was her fault, plain and simple. She wanted seasoned gentleman's sausage, she should face the piper. While poor innocent Northkape is left holding his, err... thoughts about what to do next.
 
WWAMD? (What would a MoBer Do)
 
Well, what else? Get a younger model, of course. Maybe this time he will croak before she abandons him for greener pastures.
 
I ask that if anyone has a reason for why the two lost their romantic feelings, please tell me the reasons why they fell in love.  One answer would be just as much a speculation as the other.  Developing feelings of love is just as complicated as losing feelings of love.  I defy anyone here to say otherwise.

Otherwise.
 
You know very well why.
 
You want some candy little girl, heh, heh, heh.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 18, 2013, 02:30:54 PM
And on that note, till tomorrow.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 02:35:08 PM

To completely eliminate was is otherwise a given factual statement of invitation to contact someone, which in your need to intervene because you feel it isn't right for anyone to abide within those terms, somehow separate you from what you believe as abnormal folks.

LOL.


Dude, you pretty much made the same argument the mob'ers made towards you. 


Maybe my opinions are hitting too close to home. 


I don't need to separate myself from anyone.  I just believe it is abnormal to take this to that level.  I couldn't use big words if I wanted so if you don't get where I am coming from you simply don't get it.


Hell, maybe I am the abnormal guy here who isn't interested in contacting strangers because I don't like what is posted online. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 02:38:21 PM

Dude, you pretty much made the same argument the mob'ers made towards you. 


Maybe my opinions are hitting too close to home. 


I don't need to separate myself from anyone.  I just believe it is abnormal to take this to that level.  I couldn't use big words if I wanted so if you don't get where I am coming from you simply don't get it.


Hell, maybe I am the abnormal guy here who isn't interested in contacting strangers because I don't like what is posted online.


Since you persist ignoring what is being said to you ad nauseum, I will quote your very own statement and hopefully the familiarity to it will hit home with you and with better clarity.


Quote
...Yes, I consider someone getting so wrapped up in an online message board to the point they feel the need to intervene is abnormal...

Again...the OP invited anyone to contact his wife. The wife welcomes contact from strangers dealing with her hubby's wife-seeking adventures. Many of the folks expressed abiding within what is already a known context....

So now we have 'you'...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2013, 02:39:44 PM
WWAMD? (What would a MoBer Do)


Brilliant. 8)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 02:40:21 PM

Since you persist ignoring what is being said to you ad nauseum, I will quote your very own statement and hopefully the familiarity to it will hit home with you and with better clarity.


Which part are you having a problem understanding? 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2013, 02:40:38 PM

Dude, you pretty much made the same argument the mob'ers made towards you. 


I'm not seeing that connection.


Care to clarify?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 02:44:56 PM

Which part are you having a problem understanding?

The problem to comprehend is with you. As I stated on the edit above, and likely since you responded while I edited/add to the previous post...I'll say so again here.

...the OP invited anyone to contact his wife. The wife welcomes contact from strangers dealing with her hubby's wife-seeking adventures. Many of the folks expressed acting and abiding within what is already a known context....

Which part of this you DO NOT UNDERSTAND?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 02:47:24 PM
The problem to comprehend is with you. As I stated on the edit above is, and likely since you responded while I edited/add to the previous post...I'll say so again here.

...the OP invited anyone to contact his wife. The wife welcomes contact from strangers dealing with her hubby's wife-seeking adventures. Many of the folks expressed acting and abiding within what is already a known context....

Which part of this you DO NOT UNDERSTAND?


I understand all of it and I have addressed it a few times in responses to you.   Which part of my response is giving you a tough time?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 02:48:13 PM

I understand all of it and I have addressed it a few times in response to you.   Which part of my response if giving you a tough time?


LOL. Oh Okay, then...so you do admit to the fact YOU are the one who is intervening, right?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 02:48:57 PM

LOL. Oh Okay, then...so you do admit to the fact YOU are the one who is intervening, right?


I didn't contact anyone.  So how would I be intervening?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 02:53:45 PM

I didn't contact anyone.  So how would I be intervening?


...and thus I shall rather leave you to yourself to ponder such query on your own...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 02:55:01 PM

...and thus I shall rather leave you to yourself to ponder such query on your own...


lol  I think you took to far of a leap this time.  No need for pondering...  ;D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 03:00:04 PM
Ha-hah! Batman still luvs you, man...  :P
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 03:02:27 PM
Ha-hah! Batman still luvs you, man...  :P


Whew, I was worried we wouldn't be blood brothers after this.  heh
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 18, 2013, 03:20:39 PM
Looks like Mies thinks she is the female version of The Godfather now plotting out REVENGE and making people pay for their 'mistakes'...

That is a real mature way to deal with a divorce  ::) ...I think NorthKape and his wife are doing a helluva lot better job than what you would be doing in a similar situation...and all the 'abuse' accusations are just you projecting in your usual man vs woman mentality into a situation that doesn't call for it.

LFU is correct in that the cost of harboring vengeance is just not worth it. Divorcee's are best served to put it behind them and move forward cheerfully. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on December 18, 2013, 03:33:40 PM
Quote
WWAMD? (What would a MoBer Do)

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2013, 03:43:43 PM
FT, now you are being a tad melodramatic, complete with the 16 point font.


mies stated if someone jeopardized her future and her happiness, she would teach them a lesson.  Nothing about divorce in that statement.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 18, 2013, 04:41:30 PM
FT, now you are being a tad melodramatic, complete with the 16 point font.


mies stated if someone jeopardized her future and her happiness, she would teach them a lesson.  Nothing about divorce in that statement.


You are mistaken…here are 2 of the posts where mies is pretending to be The Godfather:
I see such words as spouse/partner…atonement…trust....husband...  She is talking about spouses divorcing...she may deny that now to cover your misstatement, but I see how it reads and in the context.  I don't see the point you were attempting to make.   This sort of attitude is a terrible attitude to bring into a separationorce.   It sounds to me like Northkape has been handling things a reasonable way, despite SOME of his critics attempting to twist things up .
Insofar as my larger font..I sometimes have problems with my font showing up VERY small after I use an smiley face or use more than one quote box  so I enlarge my post slightly in those cases...it may be unnecessary as I just tried it on this post and had no problem.


Fathertime! 


 
     If a husband "beats the crap" (here, me cursing) out of his wife occasionally, or endangers her health/life/well-being it is irrelevant how generous he is, whether he paid for her college education, and whether he is a good father for their joint child. He is a bad husband, and he is bad for his wife. There are no excuses for such behavior.If a husband regularly and consistently abuses his wife emotionally, it doesn't matter that he helped her to get a degree and is a good father for  their two young children, he is still a bad husband and he is bad for her. (Imho, not a good person too.)In my eyes, what the OP was doing all along throughout the 13 years of his marriage, and what he keeps doing now - constitutes a moral abuse and is inexcusable. Unlike physical violence, this is, also  imho, a forgivable offense, but not and excusable one. If he corrected his behavior and were eager to "walk in his wife's shoes" - I think she would have forgave him and would say "our past mishaps are water under the bridge." But he isn't doing anything like that. On the contrary, i see a specific and consistent pattern in his behavior.Finally, if a person whom I trust wholeheartedly suddenly started behaving unethically, if he or she used his/her close knowledge of me and his/herprivileged access to my life, in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and I would cut all connections with this person. If the person kept jeopardizing my success and happiness - I would go after this person and won't feel a slightest hint of remorse. I am very kind, gentle, loving, friendly person, but the broken trust has to be atoned for.
But if my close friend (it doesn't matter if this is spouse or just a friend) betrayed me and used my trust to jeopardized my career and my well-being for some unclear selfish motives, - this is how it would make me feel, and this is it how I would proceed. Perhaps you don't see it this way, but for me this is a very serious matter. If the person have done something wrong once and it's over/already a sunk cost - sure, it's cheaper to let it go. If he/she continues to do it, and does it - then reaction is not a revenge, it's the mean to stop bad actions against yourself. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2013, 05:18:10 PM
Per the quoted post, mies stated "in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and I would cut all connections with this person. If the person kept jeopardizing my success and happiness."

It's not about the divorce, or how to handle it.  It is about interfering in future happiness.  Whether or not this is the case in the OP's situation is not relevant to the point made above.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 18, 2013, 05:46:11 PM
Per the quoted post, mies stated "in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and I would cut all connections with this person. If the person kept jeopardizing my success and happiness."

It's not about the divorce, or how to handle it.  It is about interfering in future happiness.  Whether or not this is the case in the OP's situation is not relevant to the point made above.


I see the point you are making...but don't agree with it in this case. 


Below, mies has made  a ridiculous accusation, one that is beyond the pale:  Some vicarious 'revenge' for something or another is my educated guess.
    In my eyes, what the OP was doing all along throughout the 13 years of his marriage, and what he keeps doing now - constitutes a moral abuse and is inexcusable. Unlike physical violence, this is, also  imho, a forgivable offense, but not and excusable one. If he corrected his behavior and were eager to "walk in his wife's shoes" - I think she would have forgave him and would say "our past mishaps are water under the bridge." But he isn't doing anything like that. On the contrary, i see a specific and consistent pattern in his behavior.   


If somebody can extrapolate that northkape was abusing his wife for the last 13 years, based on the information we have...then she is apt to make up any old excuse to 'exact revenge', cloaked as self protection of course for justification purposes. 

Just conjure up a few extra facts to insure the woman is being victimized and the man is the abusing villain.   
Fathertime!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 18, 2013, 05:55:17 PM
Three something else's:

1.  Ask her to remove it.

2.  If someone in management started to ask questions, I would say "That is my crazy wife.  She is upset over my divorcing her and moving here to take this important position working for you.  Much of what he wrote is his wild imagination.  He will soon tire of this."   

3.  If management listens to the above and deems it harmful to my job,I would obtain an injunction (I am not an attorney but this should compel Northkape to cease and desist, remove everything).   If that did not work, sue for malice.   This is not the Wild, Wild West.  We have rule of law.

Exactly.

1) Northkape's wife already had a discussion with him and told him she doesn't want to have info online. He told her she would remove it after he remarries.

3) We do have rule of law. And your proposed actions are in line with what I described. Didn't I say that I would explore and use legal means? I think the word "legal" is quite straightforward.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 05:57:32 PM

I see the point you are making...but don't agree with it in this case. 


Below, mies has made  a ridiculous accusation, one that is beyond the pale:  Some vicarious 'revenge' for something or another is my educated guess.

If somebody can extrapolate that northkape was abusing his wife for the last 13 years, based on the information we have...then she is apt to make up any old excuse to 'exact revenge', cloaked as self protection of course for justification purposes. 


Just conjure up a few extra facts to insure the woman is being victimized and the man is the abusing villain.   
Fathertime!



I agree with Boethius' point. You are being melodramatic. Give it a rest.

Sure 'mies's imagination is fairly robust, as I too, do not believe NK is/was 'abusing, or abused, his wife during their marriage. The fact they shared two lovely children, coupled with the fact she was allowed to pursue her identity and career while married, speaks volume of their relationship to me.

Whatever type of arrangement they agreed to at the present time, with their present situation, rightly or wrongly in anyone else's beliefs or morals; is their own business.

But nowhere in mies' post you quoted denoted any idea or attempt to 'exact revenge' to me. Care to point that out in case I missed it? You mentioned you're making a 'guess' that that's what her intent is. If so, then how are you any better with your equally robust imagination?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 18, 2013, 05:59:22 PM

Lena married so young that she had never accomplished much in the way of professional achievement or the like.  She would like to know the joy of success so she made the effort to educate herself in a demanding profession.  As it developed, she has much talent and it caught the eye of people with the big interesting  jobs.  She is taking such a position even though it requires her to move. 
Didn't the OP told us early on that Lena was a department head back in Ukraine, in her early 20s, a successful career woman, smart and focused with (don't remember how many people exactly, but more than 2) working under her?. And she already had education back in Ukraine. To me this sounded quite an accomplishment for a young Ukrainian girl. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 18, 2013, 06:27:23 PM

Sure 'mies's imagination is fairly robust, as I too, do not believe NK is/was 'abusing, or abused, his wife during their marriage. The fact they shared two lovely children, coupled with the fact she was allowed to pursue her identity and career while married, speaks volume of their relationship to me.

 
 
You are preaching to the choir here regarding NK and mies imagination....and up to now you have tacitly approved of the creative imagination and accusations by not calling it out while calling out less egregious points by others.




But nowhere in mies' post you quoted denoted any idea or attempt to 'exact revenge' to me. Care to point that out in case I missed it? You mentioned you're making a 'guess' that that's what her intent is. If so, then how are you any better with your equally robust imagination?


And show me where did I say that the post I quoted was going to show mies was exacting revenge?   Show me where I said I was any better than mies?  I’m using my imagination and filling in the blanks just the same as she has been doing to NK…If it is ok for one and nobody wants to hold her to account..then I figured it was ok for others.  As you well know, you do it all the time too. 




  Give it a rest.
 
You want to argue points…no problem…As far as you telling me to give it a rest…hahah… forgettaboutit …you are not my leader or boss of the website….you need to be clear on that point,  and we will argue respectfully if that becomes necessary...I'd wager that several posters don't feel enough has been said. 
Fathertime!





Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 06:57:37 PM
 
You are preaching to the choir here regarding NK and mies imagination....and up to now you have tacitly approved of the creative imagination and accusations by not calling it out while calling out less egregious points by others....

Since when do others need to move on YOUR cue? Now the brown nose brigade maybe marching to your tune soon as they wake up from their nap, but never moi.

Different generation, man.

Quote
...And show me where did I say that the post I quoted was going to show mies was exacting revenge?

Is implication enough with you?

Quote from: fathertime
...Below, mies has made  a ridiculous accusation, one that is beyond the pale:  Some vicarious 'revenge' for something or another is my educated guess....


Surely, based on how you wrote that, didn't imply you mean anyone else other than the handle quoted within.


Quote
...Show me where I said I was any better than mies?...


Ahhh! It's one of those 'show me' fart fest, LOL. OK, well show me where I said 'you said you were better than mies. chrissakes!


Quote
.... I’m using my imagination and filling in the blanks just the same as she has been doing to NK…If it is ok for one and nobody wants to hold her to account..then I figured it was ok for others....

Ahh, so I was right with my post to you. You're not absolved to the accusatory tendencies you're sticking upon mies, too then.

Then why the heck are you even trying to further argue any other the 'point'? Must be the Howdy-doody time is over and the ol' pot-kettle love fest revival is in the offering?


Quote
.... As you well know, you do it all the time too....


No I don't. Elaborate please.

Quote
...You want to argue points…no problem…As far as you telling me to give it a rest…hahah… forgettaboutit …you are not my leader or boss of the website….you need to be clear on that point,  and we will argue respectfully if that becomes necessary...I'd wager that several posters don't feel enough has been said....

Oh I was VERY clear. So clear in fact you already admitted fault from my initial statement to you. Must I re-quote?

As for the rest of your silly remarks shown above, CLEARLY tells me you have neither the clue nor the direction to your silly diatribe other than to portray yourself as someone of significance. You ain't. Besides, based on your riposte, it tells me you haven't the ware to even argue with yourself much less with anyone else. Especially The Batman.

Not today. But keep trying. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 18, 2013, 07:04:32 PM
Since when do others need to move on YOUR cue? Now the brown nose brigae maybe marhcing to your tune soon, but never moi. Different generation, man.

Is implication enough with you?


Surely, based on how you wrote that, didn't imply you mean anyone else other than the handle quoted within.



Ahhh! It's one of those 'show me' fart fest, LOL. OK, well show me where I said 'you said you were better than mies. chrissakes!


Ahh, so I was right with my post to you. Then why the heck even try to argue the 'point'? Must be the Howdy-doody time is over and the ol' pot-kettle love fest revival is in the offering.

 

No I don't. Elaborate please.

Oh I was VERY clear. So clear in fact you already admitted fault from my initial statement to you. Must I re-quote?

As for the rest of your silly remarks shown above, CLEARLY tells me you have neither the clue nor the direction to your silly diatribe other than to portray yourself as someone of significance. You ain't. Besides, based on your riposte, it tells me you haven't the ware to even argue with yourself.

Not today. But keep trying. 
Fathertime!


haha, it is nice to see I got the site fool to try a 'point by point' that didn't show a thing!  I figured your emotional immaturity would dictate a response but at least I thought it would make sense..
and YOU actually thought you were somebody important...  :D


Fathertime!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 18, 2013, 07:05:46 PM

haha, it is nice to see I got the site fool to try a 'point by point' that didn't show a thing!  I figured your emotional immaturity would dictate a response but at least I thought it would make sense..
and YOU actually thought you were somebody important...  :D


Fathertime!

touche! My point proven. Now go change your diapers.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 18, 2013, 07:08:27 PM
Man, I almost missed all the fun!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 18, 2013, 07:16:34 PM
Now go change your diapers.


My point proven actually!


As soon as you change the soiled pamper around your little wooden head.


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 18, 2013, 08:34:53 PM


I mention there was no wrongdoing and you reply as follows:


 
The man was quite older, much older than her. He knew exactly what he was doing......Please tell me she had the savvy of this man who was around her father's age........You want some candy little girl, heh, heh, heh.


Muzh,

Such statements reveal your belief that a marriage with an age gap is WRONG because the older man is savvy enough to connive a young inexperienced woman to enter marriage she should never consider.     BTW, he was 44, she was 22 when they met, and his photos show him to be a handsome, fit man.

Given your belief, there is no need to discuss the issue.  It is like discussing Obamacare, Benghazi, IRS, wire taps, Rosengate, Fast and Furious, etc. with someone who believes Republicans are racists and liars and that Obama is being prevented by Congress from making America better.

I guess your wife is your age.  Ideally she should be a few years older than you given the mortality differences between men and women.   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 18, 2013, 09:14:10 PM
Northkape,

You have an interesting story to tell, one far from complete.  It started out as controversial, and I considered your story bizarre at first.  Yet with your elaborations I could understand and respect your plan and the I commended what you and Lena are attempting to do.

As with many interesting stories with some controversy, your story has become sidetracked by the judgmentalists.  You have been disparaged if not assailed for a variety of reasons. 

The anti-bridal agency crowd say you preyed on an innocent woman.  Perhaps you are accused of more (I have the Chief anti-MOBer on IGNORE and can not read his posts, and I am sure they are not commendable).

The RW accuse you of being a sex tourist, a moral abuser, a saboteur of your wife's career, and perhaps other charges that I have forgotten.

Let us not forget the child abuser charge level by one member. 

There was a hint of pedophilia in one comment; however, I assume such was stated metaphorically.

In summary, you will not change the minds of your critics and detractors.  They don't work that way.   When criticized, you have provided explanations and clarifications.   Did you can see how the judgmentalists picked and chose from the new information you provided?

I hope you complete your story.  I want to see more photos such as the one of your battered wheel and tire.   Not many guys rent a car for these trips.   Also, I want to see photos of your future fiancée.

I have a few suggestions for how to continue:. 

-   You can ask the mods to move your story to the Trip reports Sans Response.  This would require some work by the mods because they would have to separate all posts from members other than you.  If I had a question, I could PM you.   

-   Alternatively, you could continue to tell your story where it is and ignore those who make comments you think wrong or inappropriate.   

-  Also, I am doing you a disservice by responding to the others.  So as of NOW, I will not make any more comments to your detractors.

Good luck, and thanks for sharing your interesting story.   

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gylden on December 18, 2013, 10:54:05 PM
Funny how Doll dissapeared right after she said she had invited Lena to the forum?

I wonder if Lena confirmed what NK is saying?

The collective imagination of this RWD group is going to waste......should be writting "who done its".

 ;)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: calmissile on December 18, 2013, 11:07:25 PM

I mention there was no wrongdoing and you reply as follows:


Muzh,

Such statements reveal your belief that a marriage with an age gap is WRONG because the older man is savvy enough to connive a young inexperienced woman to enter marriage she should never consider.     BTW, he was 44, she was 22 when they met, and his photos show him to be a handsome, fit man.

Given your belief, there is no need to discuss the issue.  It is like discussing Obamacare, Benghazi, IRS, wire taps, Rosengate, Fast and Furious, etc. with someone who believes Republicans are racists and liars and that Obama is being prevented by Congress from making America better.

I guess your wife is your age.  Ideally she should be a few years older than you given the mortality differences between men and women.   

You hit the nail on the head!
By any chance is Muzh married to Mies?

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 18, 2013, 11:11:02 PM
Funny how Doll dissapeared right after she said she had invited Lena to the forum?

I wonder if Lena confirmed what NK is saying?

The collective imagination of this RWD group is going to waste......should be writting "who done its".

 ;)


Could be,  it is also funny how when another female poster got called out and criticized for her nasty insinuations about NK, she got so upset that she refuses to 'talk' to me anymore....now she has the site munchkin speaking for her.  haha


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 18, 2013, 11:21:22 PM
MissA
Have you forgot what I told about our boys daily life.. smile

Taking our boys away from their private school, their piano teacher, paint teacher and gymnastics teacher would be over Lena's dead body.
These teachers are all personal friends of us, and have been together with our boys since they were four years old.
It's impossible for an outsider to understand our relationship with them, and their love for our boys.
So let this be very clear, she wants the boys to stay here in my hometown with me, whatever happens in the future.

It took us years to find and build a relationship with these gifted persons.
And they have used years, building a loving relationship with our boys.
It is not allowed and not advisable to take the boys out of school and we would never, ever allow it.
So they couldn't stay in Oslo on weekdays, it's quite simply not possible.

Lena loves all of what I'm giving of my life to her sons, she see and understand my position in their lives.
I'm learning and teaching them about all possible things young boys could find interesting in our "universe"
They are bright and multi talented boys with a never ending desire for exploring and learning,
so we do our very best for providing a rich and saturated environment for their life's in all of it's aspects.
As much as she loves her boys, she truly wants them to be with me, as their best friend and father, always available for them.

No, I have not forgotten. But ... come on  :D ... we are talking after all about woman  ... and mother of course as well as two young children.

Give mother few months away from her boys when she has limited time with them and emotions could well overwrite any logic. She will be missing them and therefore could change her mind, look for good school in Oslo and try re-arrange lessons with coaches/teachers for weekends (or any other arrangements).
Same for boys, give them some time away from mum and they may say they do not want any coaching/lessons/etc if they are the reasons they can not be with their mum.
As I said before regardless how much you (and I mean both you and your wife) know your sons you can not fully predict how they will cope with situation in months forward.
I am aware that I am complete stranger to you and my advice have no value whatsoever but still I hope you will consider my words and think about possibility of things not going by the plan you and your wife made so far. Think about if boys and/or their mother do not cope well with separation what other arrangements could be made.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 19, 2013, 12:27:40 AM

I mention there was no wrongdoing and you reply as follows:


Muzh,

Such statements reveal your belief that a marriage with an age gap is WRONG because the older man is savvy enough to connive a young inexperienced woman to enter marriage she should never consider.     BTW, he was 44, she was 22 when they met, and his photos show him to be a handsome, fit man.

Given your belief, there is no need to discuss the issue.  It is like discussing Obamacare, Benghazi, IRS, wire taps, Rosengate, Fast and Furious, etc. with someone who believes Republicans are racists and liars and that Obama is being prevented by Congress from making America better.

I guess your wife is your age.  Ideally she should be a few years older than you given the mortality differences between men and women.   

That is not what he is saying.  It's not the age gap per se, but her relative youth vs his middle age. 

I believe what Muzh is saying is, there is a huge difference between knowing what you want at age 45, and knowing what you want at age 22. So, from that perspective, there is not equal culpability, as this was not a marriage of equals.  When it became a marriage of equals, she said she wanted changes in the marriage.   You, OTOH, focused on northkape's physical attributes, rather than what really matters in a marriage.  This misses the boat.  It's not even in the same ocean.

Were you the same person at 45 that you were at 22?  At 35? 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 19, 2013, 12:32:08 AM
Funny how Doll dissapeared right after she said she had invited Lena to the forum?

I wonder if Lena confirmed what NK is saying?

The collective imagination of this RWD group is going to waste......should be writting "who done its".

 ;)

She posted slightly more than 24 hours ago, so she didn't exactly disappear.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2013, 09:13:02 AM

Given your belief, there is no need to discuss the issue.  It is like discussing Obamacare, Benghazi, IRS, wire taps, Rosengate, Fast and Furious, etc. with someone who believes Republicans are racists and liars and that Obama is being prevented by Congress from making America better.

I guess your wife is your age.  Ideally she should be a few years older than you given the mortality differences between men and women.   

This is...., wait, what's the word? Hmmm
 
A ha! This is subterfuge!!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW7Op86ox9g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW7Op86ox9g)
 
 
As unplesant as it may be for you, let's stick to the point.
 
Years ago, (and I have written about it here and there) I was in a situation where I had the same opportunity of developing a relationship with a child. Yes, she was in her early 20s and 20+ years younger than me. I sat down with her and explained to her why it was not a good idea and, as flattered as I was, I had to be the better person and set her on the right path. It literally felt like I was talking to a daughter.
 
Now, you may see nothing wrong with it but I do. (I also noticed the older crowd getting their DependsTM in a twist)
 
And to answer your question, my wife is younger than me. However, at 32 she didn't behave like my daughter when we met. Maybe yours, but not mine.
 
Oh, and that little issue about minimizing the children's damage by going for young booty, let me give you my personal experience.
 
My father was a pig. He went to his tomb as a pig. And I hope he rots in hell.
 
How about that for minimizing the children's emotional state.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2013, 09:16:44 AM

Could be,  it is also funny how when another female poster got called out and criticized for her nasty insinuations about NK, she got so upset that she refuses to 'talk' to me anymore....now she has the site munchkin speaking for her.  haha


Fathertime!

If you'd stop being so angry at her maybe she'll resume her dialogue with you.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2013, 09:19:04 AM
That is not what he is saying.  It's not the age gap per se, but her relative youth vs his middle age. 

I believe what Muzh is saying is, there is a huge difference between knowing what you want at age 45, and knowing what you want at age 22. So, from that perspective, there is not equal culpability, as this was not a marriage of equals.  When it became a marriage of equals, she said she wanted changes in the marriage.   You, OTOH, focused on northkape's physical attributes, rather than what really matters in a marriage.  This misses the boat.  It's not even in the same ocean.

Were you the same person at 45 that you were at 22?  At 35?

LMAO
 
Notice how conviniently he decided he is NOT going to answer anymore to his 'detractors.'
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 19, 2013, 10:00:15 AM
Gator
You know from my history here, that I don't care about drivel from people who haven't yet learned how to behave, when communicating on a forum.
Very few of the comments here would have been voiced in such a resenting and berating manner, face to face by the same people.
Life would be unbearable for them, if they behaved like this with all people they disagree with in their daily life.
But when anonymous, they feel free to let go of all their manners, and release all of their trapped aggression towards those they feel entitled to correcting.

This is a sad fact of most forums, whatever the topics being discussed.
The only forums that I have seen with a friendly and civil tone, where those were you had to verify your identity and sign with you real name.

One of the "immature" female posters here, told about herself yesterday, that she feels deep anger and frustration when reading comments here.
For sure that makes it easier to understand her seemingly unstable emotional outbursts and her irrational reasoning about things unknown to her.

The day I get emotionally upset by reading comments on a forum from strangers I will never meet with,
or start to feel entitled to advise strangers about how they should live their personal lives,,,,  well, then I would rather go fishing or do something else.

MissA
I'm not sure if it was easily understandable in my previous postings, but I do share your worries.
If only they were worries, sadly it's a rather plausible projection of what I see happening already.

Lena would put an end to her career, and move here, before even thinking about hurting her boys by taking them out of their school.

Another thing that is difficult to understand for outsiders worried about my boys, is their relationship between them.
Even for being twins, they are extremely closely connected, having their own little closed "family", that it is sometimes hard for me and Lena to enter into.
For me this appear to be a robust unit, that seemingly makes them much less sensitive to the situation between me and Lena.
From what I have seen so far, they are not going to miss their mother as long as they see her regularly, and communicate with her by phone and mail daily.

But Lena is going to miss them terribly and most of all, feel very frustrated about being unable to take care of every little detail in their life.
What will be the outcome of this is anybody's guess, but I know there will be some tough conflicts for me to handle at some points in the future.
Hopefully she will be so busy with her new career starting next year, that she will be unable to worry too much about us....
And if she could be so lucky to find a nice man also, it would probably help a lot, for her to be able to concentrate on her new life.

more later
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2013, 10:52:30 AM
Where have I heard this before?
 
The same reasoning and rationale. Hmmm. So familial.
 
 
Hey Northkape, you came to this public forum for a good reason. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you wanted to get some opinions. So far you have over 18 pages and mounting.
 
Now, you are not saying you don't like what you are hearing, are you?
 
One mistake many people make here is that the members would never say what they say here in person. Face-to-face. They do so because they are annonymous.
 
Well, I see it differently. I see these forums like conferences where most people are annonymous but do share a common goal. I bet you, Northkape, that you have been to some meeting like this in your lifetime.
 
Well, surprise!!! There will be people who will agree and disagree with your position when presented to the quorum. And trust me, they will say it to your face if they feel strongly about it. Ask Gator. he's been to numerous conferences. I mean, I know they will refrain form the nasty words and all (you hope), but the main idea will be expressed.
 
So what do you do then?
 
Dismiss your detractors?
 
If so, what is the purpose of you attending the conference in the first place?
 
To find 'traditional' women who will make home cosy and cook tasty dishes?
 
Most likely it seems.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: The Natural on December 19, 2013, 11:24:21 AM

Very few of the comments here would have been voiced in such a resenting and berating manner, face to face by the same people.
Life would be unbearable for them, if they behaved like this with all people they disagree with in their daily life.
But when anonymous, they feel free to let go of all their manners, and release all of their trapped aggression towards those they feel entitled to correcting.

That is exactly true and I've been writing a little bit on that previously. Even anonymous, being on the chat site, the few times I've been there, people seem very easy-going, even the ones I disagrees with often here.

I've thought about it sometimes, that maybe it should be mandatory to present oneself with the full legal name in order to write on the Internet. This anonymity thing leds certain people to let out their inner demons in writing and that is not constructive in any way. Just look at the YouTube comments, I guess 95% of it is rubbish that they would not dream of voicing face-to-face.


This is a sad fact of most forums, whatever the topics being discussed.
The only forums that I have seen with a friendly and civil tone, where those were you had to verify your identity and sign with you real name.

I don't frequent forums at all except this one, these days. But there is one exception to the rule you outlined, a forum I posted in regularly when I was building my home cinema, an A/V forum in Norway where the members were very polite and constructive in 99% of the cases. And it is anonymous. So it can be done....
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ade on December 19, 2013, 11:46:35 AM
Of course, the lack of anonymity on the net would leave a person open to all kinds of wack-adoodle paranoid nut jobs that could threaten their family in RL over disagreements on silly discussion forums.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 19, 2013, 12:44:09 PM
Mush
You are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
And we are both free to read and respond to whatever we want.
You are of course welcome to wonder about what I understand or not, why I'm here and whatever I'm going to do about this or that.
But I see no reason why I should justify my presence and reasons for being here to you, or anyone else for that matter.

For me, I don't care really, why you are here, or for what reasons you find it interesting to comment my story.
I simply have no time for those who are unable to comment in a way that I consider to be constructive.
If you want to reach out for communicating with someone, I would kindly advise you to not write like those last two lines in your comment.

Natural
You will find many smaller local Forums in a place like Norway, where a lot of the participants have a feeling that they can be identified.
And for sure, the debate in such places is very friendly and constructive compared to what you find in a forum like this one.
What is sad about it, in my experience throughout the years, is that the nice and friendly persons disappear and the "trolls" remain.
Many forums I was familiar with, died slowly when only the "trolls" were left to harass anyone new entering the forum.
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 19, 2013, 12:48:34 PM
I have no problem saying to a man's face what I say here:

Hey, you're getting a divorce.  Not a killer.

Spend time with your children.  They take precedence.  Do not go looking for a replacement wife until they have gone through the assimilation period of accepting the divorce.  If you get married or start a new relationship before Mom's even out the door they will resent the hell out of you.  And they are smart enough to figure things out.  Just like we are.

Duh!

But GQ and Muzh, you have said one thing I heartily agree with.  This thread is now many pages long and the OP hears what he wants to hear and dismisses everything else.  We are no longer writing for the OP's behalf, but telling the rest of the world that we are understanding enough that we do not fall for his bullshit.

I still say he's an internet whack job.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 19, 2013, 02:47:20 PM

If you'd stop being so angry at her maybe she'll resume her dialogue with you.


Muzh,  I am not angry with HER (Mies), but I wanted to give her a little taste of her own medicine...if she wants to shell up because of this, then that is her choice...it is weak though, but no big deal...and I don't need to go further at this time if she gets the point...which is not to just start throwing around that a man,husband,father...is an abusive sex tourist without some real evidence...as I've said earlier, this poster NK doesn't seem like a bad guy at all based on what he has said...He has an interesting story, a nice looking family,  and deserved some cover from somebody when the BOLOGNA started getting thrown about. 


Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on December 19, 2013, 07:56:07 PM

But Lena is going to miss them terribly and most of all, feel very frustrated about being unable to take care of every little detail in their life.
What will be the outcome of this is anybody's guess, but I know there will be some tough conflicts for me to handle at some points in the future.
Hopefully she will be so busy with her new career starting next year, that she will be unable to worry too much about us....
And if she could be so lucky to find a nice man also, it would probably help a lot, for her to be able to concentrate on her new life.


As I stated before you seem well adjusted for what you are going through.  And very caring too.  You will do fine, but you knew that already.   It is us, not you, having trouble getting a grasp.



Quote
Gator
You know from my history here, that I don't care about drivel from people who haven't yet learned how to behave, when communicating on a forum.

I trust that you are reading the many ideas and concerns being floated here by RWD members whose perspective differs from yours.  RWD members are not idiots, and there may even be something you have not previously considered.  Even if you decide it is not for you, merely considering it makes you even more confident in your plans. 

No matter how smart one head is, two heads are smarter than one.  And at RWD we have 100 heads.   :D   With that many different perspectives, some ideas being floated will be wrong.  Yet there could be some jewels for you. 

A detractor or two may complain that you are not listening to them.  How ironic that  they are not listening to your reasons and detailed explanations.     When all is said and done, it is your family, your decision, and I am certain you know far better than us what is best for all. 

When do you meet more women? :D :D :D :D :D   I imagine your hands are full with the holidays and two young sons without Lena being there every day to help.

 

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 19, 2013, 09:44:00 PM


When do you meet more women? :D :D :D :D :D   I imagine your hands are full with the holidays and two young sons without Lena being there every day to help.


I, like i'm sure a few others here spent some time raising children alone...as cliche as it is, you become a personal shuttle service...Softball team/track practice/volleyball tourny/tutoring/'school events...etc etc... but then when the children become more independent, you look back and miss those times a little bit...


What I would say to NK is to immerse yourself as much as possible and reasonable with the boys while you can, and of course date a few women here and there....take your time with finding a woman....in a couple/few years they will be independent and outta the house maybe even...at that point he could really dive into women again...but hey the calendar stops for nobody so I get the feeling of urgency he may feel now too!


Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 20, 2013, 08:43:59 AM

and I don't need to go further at this time if she gets the point...

No, please do. Please do go as far as you can. Bring it on. I demand it.
That will show nicely what kind of  person you are and what are the values you are defending.  :)

And could you please repeat, what exactly point are you trying to prove to me? What valuable (unsolicited) lesson are you giving away?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 20, 2013, 09:32:59 AM
Mies
Please let it go,,,
In my opinion, it's just littering this thread with "nonsense" of no value to any of us.
I'm sure both you and Fathertime are able to say "Sorry" and move on to something worthwhile using your free time for.
 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 20, 2013, 10:50:48 AM
Jone
You were "accusing" me of ignoring you,,, smile
Of course when you label me as an "internet whack job" you aren't exactly inviting me either,,, agree?

Fathertime
Thanks for the supporting words..
And really,, I use almost every minute of my free time together with my boys.
I decided when young that I would marry and have kids late in my life.
After I was finished living out all of my dreams and all great things I wanted to do in life.
My reasoning was that, after finishing with my priorities, I would have my life available for spending together with my family.

Gator
More women waiting in line behind me.... smile

Bo
You can say that in general,, "a person at 45, probably knows more about what he wants from life than one at 22", and it might be true.
But you can't do this on an individual level.
I'm sure there are persons at 45 that have no idea about what they want from life and those at 22 that knows perfectly well what they want from life.
And a phrase like: "knowing what you want" can't be objectively verified as true or false by someone looking in, from the outside either.

Was it a marriage of equals in all aspects according to your scale?
I don't know and will never know either, because I don't know your definition of "equal" in such a context.
And even if you specified it for me now, it wouldn't help, as I can't return and check with your yardstick.

But does it matter at all, after the fact,, is it really preferable for everyone to marry their "equal"?
if so, where in personality and qualities do they need to be equal.

For me I know what equals I am looking for,,, always knew, and will of course choose by the same scale again, this time around.





Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on December 20, 2013, 11:08:11 AM
....But GQ and Muzh, you have said one thing I heartily agree with.  This thread is now many pages long and the OP hears what he wants to hear and dismisses everything else.  We are no longer writing for the OP's behalf, but telling the rest of the world that we are understanding enough that we do not fall for his bullshit....

That's pretty much the gist of it. I still like the fact NK's wifey did have an opportunity to seek out and find her personal value and identity within their marriage. That's always a good thing. But beyond all else, how they're handling their situation at the present time is really up to them. If NK feels the only answer and value to his current situation is to import a younger Ukrainian woman into his life and kids', oh well...his choice.


I do find it funny how multiple losers from the past always seem to come to dish out advice and gospels about how to have successful relationship 101' as though they actually 'know' what it takes to have one. LOL.


Quote
...I still say he's an internet whack job...

Maybe. Don't know or care. Just hope the kids will be fine and are able to discern life's inconsistencies on their own with all of these things going on...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 20, 2013, 12:02:29 PM
Bo
You can say that in general,, "a person at 45, probably knows more about what he wants from life than one at 22", and it might be true.
But you can't do this on an individual level.
I'm sure there are persons at 45 that have no idea about what they want from life and those at 22 that knows perfectly well what they want from life.
And a phrase like: "knowing what you want" can't be objectively verified as true or false by someone looking in, from the outside either.

Was it a marriage of equals in all aspects according to your scale?
I don't know and will never know either, because I don't know your definition of "equal" in such a context.
And even if you specified it for me now, it wouldn't help, as I can't return and check with your yardstick.

But does it matter at all, after the fact,, is it really preferable for everyone to marry their "equal"?
if so, where in personality and qualities do they need to be equal.

For me I know what equals I am looking for,,, always knew, and will of course choose by the same scale again, this time around.

Dude, all this time I thought you were in Norway. Now I know you live in Egypt.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 20, 2013, 12:35:21 PM
Mies
Please let it go,,,
In my opinion, it's just littering this thread with "nonsense" of no value to any of us.
I'm sure both you and Fathertime are able to say "Sorry" and move on to something worthwhile using your free time for.

Northkape, thank you for your gracious response. If Fathertime will apologize, I will accept his apologies.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 20, 2013, 12:39:32 PM
Mies
THANKS,,,,, smiles
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 20, 2013, 01:43:18 PM
Mies
THANKS,,,,, smiles

You are very welcomed :-)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 20, 2013, 04:14:59 PM
FatherTime
Thanks,,, I might have an opportunity to continue the story..... smile
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 20, 2013, 06:08:20 PM
You can say that in general,, "a person at 45, probably knows more about what he wants from life than one at 22", and it might be true.

Unless the person is a blithering idiot, with no ability to learn, or no introspection, or has lived in a monastery or cave with relatively little contact with the world at large, it is absolutely true.

Quote
But you can't do this on an individual level.

Sure I can.  See above.

Quote
I'm sure there are persons at 45 that have no idea about what they want from life and those at 22 that knows perfectly well what they want from life.

Almost no one's life unravels the manner he/she envisioned it in youth.  You (a generic "you") can have a general sense of what you desire in life (career, family, fame, fortune, etc.), but how you will see the road before you have traveled it, and how you will view it when you are half way down the path, or at the end of the path, are very different.

Quote
And a phrase like: "knowing what you want" can't be objectively verified as true or false by someone looking in, from the outside either.

True. Often, even when one is living it, one does not truly know what one wants.

Quote
Was it a marriage of equals in all aspects according to your scale?
I don't know and will never know either, because I don't know your definition of "equal" in such a context.
And even if you specified it for me now, it wouldn't help, as I can't return and check with your yardstick.

Since you are not really asking, I will not elaborate and obviously, I don't know the details of your marriage.  But, let us look at a few facts you have posted.  You were middle aged, presumably had an established career, the money to do as you pleased, and had the opportunity to travel the world to find a wife.  You come from a country many would love to live in, so much so that citizenship, if I understand correctly, is difficult to obtain (more so than in North America, for example).  Your bride, OTOH, was from a second, in some respects, third world country, from a region that is highly polluted, with factories and industries in decline, high unemployment, where a third of the men are alcoholics, and where really, no matter what is posted about wonderful careers, her opportunities for career advancement and satisfaction were not at the levels that exist for WW.  She could not easily emigrate to your country, or to Western Europe on her own, despite a (presumably) good education.  So, for an ambitious young woman, what are her real choices?   She trades her youth and beauty to marry a foreigner and moves to a new country, where initially, she is unemployable unless she wants to work in menial labour, where she does not understand the language, where she is a foreigner in the society, and where even her ability to remain in country is wholly dependent on her husband.  So, even setting aside her youth, how, given the foregoing, are you equals?

Quote
But does it matter at all, after the fact,, is it really preferable for everyone to marry their "equal"?
if so, where in personality and qualities do they need to be equal.

IMO, it is because when you do not, there is a "power differential".  It can be subtle and overcome, it need not define a marriage, or it can become greater over time. 

Quote
For me I know what equals I am looking for,,, always knew, and will of course choose by the same scale again, this time around.

You have posted that part of the reason you are looking in Ukraine is that generally, Norwegian women in the age bracket you are looking for are not willing to date men of your age and that UW are willing to settle for an older man.  Based on my understanding, that, in and of itself, negates an argument of equality.

Note, this is not a criticism of you, and my original post was me expanding on how I read Muzh's post. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 20, 2013, 09:13:42 PM
Unless the person is a blithering idiot, with no ability to learn, or no introspection, or has lived in a monastery or cave with relatively little contact with the world at large, it is absolutely true.
 


No it is not ABSOLUTELY true...things can change for a man or woman at any age and leave them in a state of confusion about their lives going forward...that does not make the person a blithering idiot or lacking introspection....sometimes things happen, like this.


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 20, 2013, 11:11:20 PM
You missed the point.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 20, 2013, 11:47:33 PM
You missed the point.


No, you made a point that is not accurate.


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 21, 2013, 03:36:29 AM
Bo
Thanks for your long and detailed answer...
But I think we are talking about entirely different things.
I see from your answer that you are talking about equality in a social context.

Equality for me, is more related to what we have inside our minds,,,
like: outlook on life, ambitions, courage, strength, creativity, intelligence, empathy, happiness, energy and so on. 

You can of course apply a general rule to an individual, but it still has no value doing so.
It's like saying 2+2 = 3..... Even if you can say it, it's still wrong.

Please, don't ever tell people from FSU that they live in something close to a third world country.
It just isn't true,, and offending in such a way, I can't understand the reason for writing it in a forum like this.
I can agree about rating it as "second world" countries between us,
but I would never say that openly to anyone living there.
A large amount of the people living in Moscow or Kiev,
can't really see any difference between their life there, and our life in the west.
Even if it easily visible to me and many others living in some parts of the western world.

And really, I have hard time understanding the difference in personal satisfaction,
from great achievements in your career based on whether you are living in Dnieprodzerzhinsk or in Oslo.

If I didn't have the opportunity of searching for "such a woman" in Ukraine, I would of course try to find her here at home.
Not impossible, but I would have to use a very different strategy, and as of today, I have no idea about how hard it would be.
It was difficult 15 years ago, but I was very close to finding her at home at that time.

Bo,, don't ever worry about criticizing me,, I'm not easily offended.... smile

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: flitabout62 on December 21, 2013, 11:19:28 AM
Bo
Thanks for your long and detailed answer...
But I think we are talking about entirely different things.
I see from your answer that you are talking about equality in a social context.

Equality for me, is more related to what we have inside our minds,,,
like: outlook on life, ambitions, courage, strength, creativity, intelligence, empathy, happiness, energy and so on. 

You can of course apply a general rule to an individual, but it still has no value doing so.
It's like saying 2+2 = 3..... Even if you can say it, it's still wrong.

Please, don't ever tell people from FSU that they live in something close to a third world country.
It just isn't true,, and offending in such a way, I can't understand the reason for writing it in a forum like this.
I can agree about rating it as "second world" countries between us,
but I would never say that openly to anyone living there.
A large amount of the people living in Moscow or Kiev,
can't really see any difference between their life there, and our life in the west.
Even if it easily visible to me and many others living in some parts of the western world.

And really, I have hard time understanding the difference in personal satisfaction,
from great achievements in your career based on whether you are living in Dnieprodzerzhinsk or in Oslo.

If I didn't have the opportunity of searching for "such a woman" in Ukraine, I would of course try to find her here at home.
Not impossible, but I would have to use a very different strategy, and as of today, I have no idea about how hard it would be.
It was difficult 15 years ago, but I was very close to finding her at home at that time.

Bo,, don't ever worry about criticizing me,, I'm not easily offended.... smile

Northkape,
You appear to be a very bright man and one who is thoughtful. (and possibly employed in a profession involving writing?)  But your justifications appear to be focused on the intangibles and not on what is tangible or real in our world.

With all due respect, I do not believe what you write.  It seems, by your own description, that your wife is focused on the very tangible world of success educationally and in business.    If what you right is true, then I have trouble seeing your wife and you having much in common other than the children.  The fact you have met, married, and been together for 13 years is difficult to imagine from what you've written about you both, unless there was more than your intangible qualities that attracted your wife to you. :-\  It would make more sense to me if you were to confess that you simply enjoy debate and this whole thing is an elaborate writing exercise started because you are bored? 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 21, 2013, 02:37:40 PM
Bo
Thanks for your long and detailed answer...
But I think we are talking about entirely different things.
I see from your answer that you are talking about equality in a social context.

Equality for me, is more related to what we have inside our minds,,,
like: outlook on life, ambitions, courage, strength, creativity, intelligence, empathy, happiness, energy and so on. 

Under that definition, many eight year olds are equal to adults.

Quote
You can of course apply a general rule to an individual, but it still has no value doing so.
It's like saying 2+2 = 3..... Even if you can say it, it's still wrong.

Everyone, including me, assumes they are the exception to the general rule.

Quote
Please, don't ever tell people from FSU that they live in something close to a third world country.
It just isn't true,, and offending in such a way, I can't understand the reason for writing it in a forum like this.  I can agree about rating it as "second world" countries between us,
but I would never say that openly to anyone living there.
A large amount of the people living in Moscow or Kiev,
can't really see any difference between their life there, and our life in the west.
Even if it easily visible to me and many others living in some parts of the western world.

I speak to Ukrainians who left the country to settle here every week.  I have just now asked my Ukrainian citizen husband, if, in his opinion, Ukraine is a third world country.  We had watched the programme Lily posted, about a chef who went to work in Lugansk.  He responded "Didn't you see it yourself yesterday?"

Ukraine has a per capita GDP of under US$8,000, lower than Namibia, Turkmenistan, Jamaica, Tonga, Albania, and Bosnia and Herzogovina.  In some towns in Ukraine, people hook their homes up to city lights to obtain electricity.  Every level of government is ruled by corrupt politicians who get rich from their offices, more often than not, by theft. 

The glitz and glamour of Kyiv is evident in the city centre, and there is more money because everyone who stole money elsewhere in the country (other than Odessa) moved to Kyiv.  However, go out to a neighbourhood 10 minutes by tram from Khreshchatik, such as where my MIL has lived for over forty years  (now a desirable area based on its central location), and you will witness a very different world.  Unemployed young men loiter outside all day, smoking and playing dominoes.  Stray dogs, known on occasion to attack people, particularly children, roam the streets.  So, let's not kid ourselves.  If the country were not in misery, young women would not be on ADate, earning a few pennies for each WM they speak with, and no one would be fleecing these men for $2 a day.

Quote
And really, I have hard time understanding the difference in personal satisfaction,
from great achievements in your career based on whether you are living in Dnieprodzerzhinsk or in Oslo.

It is not the personal achievements I was referring to.  One can be happy wherever one lives.  I was referring to the difficulty of life.  A woman's life, in particular, in Ukraine is far more difficult than it is in the West, and even more so in comparison to egalitarian Scandinavian nations.  If your ex had the same position in Ukraine she does now, she would have to worry about crossing a powerful politician (a de facto mobster) in any investigation or prosecution she was involved in.  She would run into a police system in which most officers have abused their positions for personal gain, and the majority take bribes.  She would have no ability to do anything to change this, at least, not if she wanted to remain alive.  How likely is that to occur in Norway?

It gives me, as a diaspora Ukrainian, no pleasure in stating any of the above.  Ukrainians are well educated, certainly as well, if not better educated, than many of their Western counterparts.  I had hoped, on the collapse of communism, that the country would flourish, with a rule of law by now, and a standard of living similar to that of some Western countries.  I also assumed, after the collapse, that the suppressed arts would flourish, that there would be a burst of artistic creativity in all spheres.  Instead, I read newspapers full of basic grammatical errors, suggesting the reporters' and editors' diplomas were purchased rather than earned, no interesting authors have emerged, and most of the musical artists are churning out rehashed Soviet pop tunes, or the same Europop.  The country is ruled by the former ruling class who now, instead of being committed to communism, are corrupt oligarchs who live with no rule of law, not a care about how the populace they are elected to serve live, and no Moscow to control the worst of their avaricious impulses. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 21, 2013, 05:36:56 PM
Under that definition, many eight year olds are equal to adults.

Everyone, including me, assumes they are the exception to the general rule.

I speak to Ukrainians who left the country to settle here every week.  I have just now asked my Ukrainian citizen husband, if, in his opinion, Ukraine is a third world country.  We had watched the programme Lily posted, about a chef who went to work in Lugansk.  He responded "Didn't you see it yourself yesterday?"

Ukraine has a per capita GDP of under US$8,000, lower than Namibia, Turkmenistan, Jamaica, Tonga, Albania, and Bosnia and Herzogovina.  In some towns in Ukraine, people hook their homes up to city lights to obtain electricity.  Every level of government is ruled by corrupt politicians who get rich from their offices, more often than not, by theft. 

The glitz and glamour of Kyiv is evident in the city centre, and there is more money because everyone who stole money elsewhere in the country (other than Odessa) moved to Kyiv.  However, go out to a neighbourhood 10 minutes by tram from Khreshchatik, such as where my MIL has lived for over forty years  (now a desirable area based on its central location), and you will witness a very different world.  Unemployed young men loiter outside all day, smoking and playing dominoes.  Stray dogs, known on occasion to attack people, particularly children, roam the streets.  So, let's not kid ourselves.  If the country were not in misery, young women would not be on ADate, earning a few pennies for each WM they speak with, and no one would be fleecing these men for $2 a day.

It is not the personal achievements I was referring to.  One can be happy wherever one lives.  I was referring to the difficulty of life.  A woman's life, in particular, in Ukraine is far more difficult than it is in the West, and even more so in comparison to egalitarian Scandinavian nations.  If your ex had the same position in Ukraine she does now, she would have to worry about crossing a powerful politician (a de facto mobster) in any investigation or prosecution she was involved in.  She would run into a police system in which most officers have abused their positions for personal gain, and the majority take bribes.  She would have no ability to do anything to change this, at least, not if she wanted to remain alive.  How likely is that to occur in Norway?

It gives me, as a diaspora Ukrainian, no pleasure in stating any of the above.  Ukrainians are well educated, certainly as well, if not better educated, than many of their Western counterparts.  I had hoped, on the collapse of communism, that the country would flourish, with a rule of law by now, and a standard of living similar to that of some Western countries.  I also assumed, after the collapse, that the suppressed arts would flourish, that there would be a burst of artistic creativity in all spheres.  Instead, I read newspapers full of basic grammatical errors, suggesting the reporters' and editors' diplomas were purchased rather than earned, no interesting authors have emerged, and most of the musical artists are churning out rehashed Soviet pop tunes, or the same Europop.  The country is ruled by the former ruling class who now, instead of being committed to communism, are corrupt oligarchs who live with no rule of law, not a care about how the populace they are elected to serve live, and no Moscow to control the worst of their avaricious impulses.

I agree with Boethius.

I have visited Ukraine past spring, after 6 years of not seeing it. While living in USA I've heard both good things and bad things about changes/evolution of Ukraine. In my hometown roads and anything related to public infrastructure are in worse shape than they were in early 1990s, following the collapse of USSR, hyperinflation and extreme deficit, when municipal budgets had no money and people were not paid salary for a year or more. I visited few more small towns, along with various districts in Kyiv, and cannot understand how the country can be living better if every public good is so neglected and not cared for. The state collects money from citizens, but the money get lost in deep pockets of many state employees and politicians, only to be found later in off-shores and in Swiss and Austrian banks. The century-old buildings in Kyiv, which are designated as historical heritage and supposedly are protected by state, are instead methodically destroyed by neglect and arson. While the majority of the country becomes poorer by the day,  our politicians and state officials use their political power to gain competitive advantage for their business enterprises, to get contracts for their sons, daughters, and in-laws. General attitude to women in Ukraine is so upsetting that I do not even want to start talking about it. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 21, 2013, 06:14:54 PM
Thanks again for taking your time Bo

Under that definition, many eight year olds are equal to adults.

Yes, and if you belived in that, you would prefer to choose your own partner by the scale of social equality,
and vote for an eight year old running for president.
You clearly do understand Bo, that the traits alone doesn't a personality make.

So, no need to belittle what qualities I'm looking for, in the woman I want to have beside me.

Whatever amount of ambitions an eight year old might have,,
he still hasn't acquired the necessary knowledge and reason for building an abstract platform, where to envision his future achievements.
Even though he is equally ambitious there in't much of value for an adult to discuss with him.

Everyone, including me, assumes they are the exception to the general rule.

Not everyone Bo, only those willing to forfeit reason and logic in the face of feelings.
However populated mankind's history is with such people, you will not find my name in there.

Whatever you tell me Bo, I will not agree about Ukraine being even close to the level of third world countries, as in Africa.

In countries where a substantial and unknown amount of the economy goes below the radar, the Official GDP numbers have less than artificial value.

The glitz and glamour of Kyiv
No way do I want a pissing match about who knows the most about Ukraine so I will only state my opinion once.
In my opinion, I know as much about Ukraine as almost anyone living there,
having been together with people from the Elite level corrupts in the main cities,
down to the poorest of the poor living in the most remote villages of Ukraine.
And driving myself, across almost every part of Ukraine numerous times in the last 13 years.

I was referring to the difficulty of life
You know what Bo,,, I really don't believe in that when placing it in this context.

If you are fighting for a position when climbing the ladder, no one are going to step aside and offer you the place.
You will have to fight to the absolute ability of every nerve in your body as long as you are awake.
And you are fighting with other humans that will do exactly the same, using every trick ever invented by mankind, to make you slip and fall.
Wether you are in Los Angeles, in Oslo or in Kiev the game is the same, there are similar written and unwritten rules for all players to follow.
All participants are still only humans that have the same 24 hours a day available for using as fit.

I sat at the sidelines 30 years ago watching my lady fighting her way from serving coffee to become "Business Woman Of The Year" in Norway.
And I have Lena sleeping in the bed beside me, totally exhausted every day of the week from fighting the same game on her way up.

But in general, I truly admire the women I meet with in Ukraine for being able to support a family on their own, working almost constantly every single hour of their life.

Ukrainians are well educated, certainly as well, if not better educated, than many of their Western counterparts.  I had hoped, on the collapse of communism, that the country would flourish, with a rule of law by now, and a standard of living similar to that of some Western countries.  I also assumed, after the collapse, that the suppressed arts would flourish, that there would be a burst of artistic creativity in all spheres.  Instead, I read newspapers full of basic grammatical errors, suggesting the reporters' and editors' diplomas were purchased rather than earned, no interesting authors have emerged, and most of the musical artists are churning out rehashed Soviet pop tunes, or the same Europop.  The country is ruled by the former ruling class who now, instead of being committed to communism, are corrupt oligarchs who live with no rule of law, not a care about how the populace they are elected to serve live, and no Moscow to control the worst of their avaricious impulses.

Bo,,, these are similar to my own thoughts 13 years ago, sitting behind the steering wheel of my own car, watching thousands of kilometers disappear at my side.
I remember very well, telling Lena to look closely at her own Ukraine, when passing by, because in a few years time it would all change it's face.
Looking back, I was quite a bit too optimistic about that.... smile
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 21, 2013, 06:36:10 PM
northkape, you don't speak Russian or Ukrainian.  Both mies and I do, and we have both lived in Ukraine.  I am fairly confident our views of Ukraine are more accurate than is yours.



Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 21, 2013, 06:50:36 PM
I stated my opinion only Bo

And made it clear that I'm not willing to argue about it.
You have no knowledge about my history in Ukraine, and I am not going to tell about it either.

Of course, I fully understand and respect your opinion about a subject very sensitive to you.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on December 21, 2013, 06:55:15 PM
No, I don't know your history, but I do know that if one does not speak the language of a country, one cannot see all its facets.  This is probably more so when economic disparity exists.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: JayH on December 21, 2013, 06:59:36 PM
northkape, you don't speak Russian or Ukrainian.  Both mies and I do, and we have both lived in Ukraine.  I am fairly confident our views of Ukraine are more accurate than is yours.

I have read thread with interest in the many areas covered-in that comment I do not mean geographical.
From a geographical perspective!!-- in driving yourself  you do get to see a lot of Ukraine. I drive when I am there and have covered many thousands of kms-- both in large cities and very small towns. I do not speak Ukrainian or Russian  and in no way seek to make comparisons of relative understanding. I have and am most interested to learn from others -- but in that process one always has opinions of what the see and hear( & read of course).Of course-- you learn a lot in the process.
 I have seen people living in what I consider 3rd world conditions in far to many cases to say that is unusual. For me--it has been an incredibly humbling and emotional experience. I have never ceased to be amazed how people can live in such a harsh winter climate in such inadequate housing -- and I will quickly add--amazed at how house proud people are regardless.
I agree with Boethius.

I have visited Ukraine past spring, after 6 years of not seeing it. While living in USA I've heard both good things and bad things about changes/evolution of Ukraine. In my hometown roads and anything related to public infrastructure are in worse shape than they were in early 1990s, following the collapse of USSR, hyperinflation and extreme deficit, when municipal budgets had no money and people were not paid salary for a year or more. I visited few more small towns, along with various districts in Kyiv, and cannot understand how the country can be living better if every public good is so neglected and not cared for. The state collects money from citizens, but the money get lost in deep pockets of many state employees and politicians, only to be found later in off-shores and in Swiss and Austrian banks. The century-old buildings in Kyiv, which are designated as historical heritage and supposedly are protected by state, are instead methodically destroyed by neglect and arson. While the majority of the country becomes poorer by the day,  our politicians and state officials use their political power to gain competitive advantage for their business enterprises, to get contracts for their sons, daughters, and in-laws. General attitude to women in Ukraine is so upsetting that I do not even want to start talking about it. 
This post and MrsB's that Mies is referring to cover a lot of real issues.My only word of caution is that it is not necessary to be condescending and dismissive of those who do not speak the language and /or are late to taking an interest in Ukraine. I am sure that both NorthKape and I can tell you things  Ukraine related that neither MrsB or Mies knows about!! :)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 21, 2013, 07:04:24 PM
I am sure that both NorthKape and I can tell you things  Ukraine related that neither MrsB or Mies knows about!! :)

Now I am curious to know such things  ;D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: JayH on December 21, 2013, 07:13:08 PM
Now I am curious to know such things  ;D

Funny thing is I nearly included you when I said that!! :popcorn:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on December 21, 2013, 07:38:49 PM
Funny thing is I nearly included you when I said that!! :popcorn:

That doesn't help my curiosity. Go on, tell those things about Ukraine. You know you want to  ;D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: JayH on December 21, 2013, 08:02:25 PM
That doesn't help my curiosity. Go on, tell those things about Ukraine. You know you want to  ;D
]

For the sake of others-- I will repeat what I have said previously and alluded to above. There are specific things Ukraine within my exposure  that  you know--or knew very little of -eg the mob and agency business-reference you agreeing with unesteemed member resident in Estonia and being prepared to dispute it with others on forum -some who were referencing first hand anecdotes from now wives-- who had in fact lived in Ukraine far more recently than you.
Let me give another example --- in response to a forum question( by LT as it it happens) as to how to get from a Ukraine city ( not far from where you came from :)) -- a lady member!! advised a convoluted cross country route of bus and train connections   to Kharkov.It was in winter and would have involved considerable time waiting around etc.
I suggested--the best and EASIEST way was to train/bus direct back to Kiev and catch express train to Kharkov.
For that simple common sense advice (which I stand by until this day)  I was assailed by forum fools and bag carriers whose assertion was I would not have a clue etc and that "lady" had far more knowledge of Ukraine than me etc
Of course-- you  still think I have never been there so not much I can say about that.
Your question is answered- please do not divert this thread. :)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 21, 2013, 08:16:56 PM
Mies
I totally agree with most everything you wrote.

In my hometown roads and anything related to public infrastructure are in worse shape than they were in early 1990s, following the collapse of USSR, hyperinflation and extreme deficit, when municipal budgets had no money and people were not paid salary for a year or more. I visited few more small towns, along with various districts in Kyiv, and cannot understand how the country can be living better if every public good is so neglected and not cared for. The state collects money from citizens, but the money get lost in deep pockets of many state employees and politicians, only to be found later in off-shores and in Swiss and Austrian banks. The century-old buildings in Kyiv, which are designated as historical heritage and supposedly are protected by state, are instead methodically destroyed by neglect and arson. While the majority of the country becomes poorer by the day,  our politicians and state officials use their political power to gain competitive advantage for their business enterprises, to get contracts for their sons, daughters, and in-laws.

In general a lot of the infrastructure in Ukraine, is in worse condition now, than it was when I first came here 13 years ago.

Many roads are now in a condition that makes it almost impossible to use them.
In some places this year, the farmers had made access to their fields, so it was possible to detour in the places where the conditions were at it's worst.
Places like between Krivoy Rig - Nikolaev  /  Zhitomyr - Khmelnitsky  /  Zhitomyr - Vinnitsa

But there are also some glimpses of light in between:
The Northern route from Kiev to Poland through Korosten and then Kovel, more than 500 kilometers, is totally rebuilt and in perfect condition.
And new four lane roads between Kiev - Zhitomyr  /  Kherson - Nikolaev  /  Kharkov - Dniepropetrovsk  /  Kiev - Kharkov soon to be finished.

Even as terrible as the economic situation is, I see that most of those people I know, can afford more amenities in their homes today than ten years ago.
There are also several, that can now afford to buy their first car ever.

13 years ago, the price of (Ukraine) foods in general, were as low as one tenth of the price here in Norway.
Today, prices on food are almost the same as in Norway, but our salaries are close to ten times higher than in Ukraine.
However difficult the conditions of their daily life, most people are still friendly and helpful wherever I have been.

Taking care of historical buildings is very difficult, in all of the world and also extremely expensive.
I saw that they were doing work on some buildings in Kiev this summer.
Sadly, most of the work isn't done correctly for restoring the buildings to their original state and condition.
Missing the craftsmen with knowledge about how the work was done when the buildings were made, they do a cheap "look-alike" restoration that won't last.

General attitude to women in Ukraine is so upsetting that I do not even want to start talking about it.

Yes, Mies it makes me truly sad to see what burdens your women are supposed to carry on their shoulders every day of their life.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 22, 2013, 04:50:05 AM
Thanks FatherTime

Now getting back to my story,,,
A short summarry of what happened so far:
Met with Kiev33 and then Kiev32 when arriving in Kiev.
After a business meeting in Kharkov I met with Kharkov32
Have arrived at Lena's parents in Dnieprodzherzhinsk, where I will be staying for a few days.
We are finished with dinner, and I will drive to Dniepropetrovsk for a date in the evening.

Dniepropetrovsk36 is supposed to meet with me at the French Carousel in the European Square at 19.00

I park my car in the parking lot across Prospect Karl Marx, a few minutes to 19.00 and walk over to the French Carousel.
Picking up my phone, I call her,,,, she speaks no English, but I do understand this at least: ya budu tam cherez djecit minut.
Meaning,,, she will be here in 10 minutes, (or usually within 10 - 50 min. for a Ukraine woman)

Then I feel it safe to turn on my "number 2" phone and make a call to my long time favorite Kirhovorad32.
I was unable to get in touch with her while driving here, and she is waiting for my call about our meeting tomorrow.
Heaven might fall down in hell, if I'm unable to get hold of her before Dniepropetrovsk36 arrives here.

More later.....
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Елена on December 22, 2013, 07:00:12 AM


[Now getting back to my story,,,
A short summarry of what happened so far:
Met with Kiev33 and then Kiev32 when arriving in Kiev.
After a business meeting in Kharkov I met with Kharkov32
Have arrived at Lena's parents in Dnieprodzherzhinsk, where I will be staying for a few days.
We are finished with dinner, and I will drive to Dniepropetrovsk for a date in the evening.

Dniepropetrovsk36 is supposed to meet with me at the French Carousel in the European Square at 19.00

I park my car in the parking lot across Prospect Karl Marx, a few minutes to 19.00 and walk over to the French Carousel.
Picking up my phone, I call her,,,, she speaks no English, but I do understand this at least: ya budu tam cherez djecit minut.
Meaning,,, she will be here in 10 minutes, (or usually within 10 - 50 min. for a Ukraine woman)

Then I feel it safe to turn on my "number 2" phone and make a call to my long time favorite Kirhovorad32.
I was unable to get in touch with her while driving here, and she is waiting for my call about our meeting tomorrow.
Heaven might fall down in hell, if I'm unable to get hold of her before Dniepropetrovsk36 arrives here. ]
I read the beginning of this post. I'm surprised to read this. I do not think that would be one of your list ... What do you think about the fact that someone from the women on your list, she will come to meet you and to meet again with 20 men in your city? It is possible that I either obsolete or I just do not understand something.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 22, 2013, 09:13:36 AM
Thanks FatherTime

Now getting back to my story,,,
A short summarry of what happened so far:
Met with Kiev33 and then Kiev32 when arriving in Kiev.
After a business meeting in Kharkov I met with Kharkov32
Have arrived at Lena's parents in Dnieprodzherzhinsk, where I will be staying for a few days.
We are finished with dinner, and I will drive to Dniepropetrovsk for a date in the evening.

Dniepropetrovsk36 is supposed to meet with me at the French Carousel in the European Square at 19.00

I park my car in the parking lot across Prospect Karl Marx, a few minutes to 19.00 and walk over to the French Carousel.
Picking up my phone, I call her,,,, she speaks no English, but I do understand this at least: ya budu tam cherez djecit minut.
Meaning,,, she will be here in 10 minutes, (or usually within 10 - 50 min. for a Ukraine woman)

Then I feel it safe to turn on my "number 2" phone and make a call to my long time favorite Kirhovorad32.
I was unable to get in touch with her while driving here, and she is waiting for my call about our meeting tomorrow.
Heaven might fall down in hell, if I'm unable to get hold of her before Dniepropetrovsk36 arrives here.

More later.....
Well NK, I sorta lost track of this aspect of your story through all the other garbage.  So it appears you are meeting some ladies now...what have you thought of some of the other ladies you met such as kiev 32 and kiev33....did they appear to be interested in you...did you have much interest in any of them? 


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: mies on December 22, 2013, 10:03:37 AM
My only word of caution is that it is not necessary to be condescending and dismissive of those who do not speak the language and /or are late to taking an interest in Ukraine. I am sure that both NorthKape and I can tell you things  Ukraine related that neither MrsB or Mies knows about!! :)

Thank you for your story, Jay.
I am curious to hear these things about Ukraine ;-)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: lonedrake on December 22, 2013, 08:28:53 PM
Quote
kiev 32 and kiev33....did they appear to be interested in you...did you have much interest in any of them?


 I am sorry father time....but you make me laugh :welcome:

 Did you not read what northkape wrote in previous posts?

 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on December 23, 2013, 09:58:15 AM

 I am sorry father time....but you make me laugh :welcome:

 Did you not read what northkape wrote in previous posts?


hehe, well i guess i've lost track of what happened or is happening with the ladies NK is meeting.


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 23, 2013, 11:40:51 AM
Thanks again for taking your time Bo

Under that definition, many eight year olds are equal to adults.

Yes, and if you belived in that, you would prefer to choose your own partner by the scale of social equality,
and vote for an eight year old running for president.
You clearly do understand Bo, that the traits alone doesn't a personality make.

So, no need to belittle what qualities I'm looking for, in the woman I want to have beside me.

Whatever amount of ambitions an eight year old might have,,
he still hasn't acquired the necessary knowledge and reason for building an abstract platform, where to envision his future achievements.
Even though he is equally ambitious there in't much of value for an adult to discuss with him.

Everyone, including me, assumes they are the exception to the general rule.

Not everyone Bo, only those willing to forfeit reason and logic in the face of feelings.
However populated mankind's history is with such people, you will not find my name in there.

Whatever you tell me Bo, I will not agree about Ukraine being even close to the level of third world countries, as in Africa.

In countries where a substantial and unknown amount of the economy goes below the radar, the Official GDP numbers have less than artificial value.

The glitz and glamour of Kyiv
No way do I want a pissing match about who knows the most about Ukraine so I will only state my opinion once.
In my opinion, I know as much about Ukraine as almost anyone living there,
having been together with people from the Elite level corrupts in the main cities,
down to the poorest of the poor living in the most remote villages of Ukraine.
And driving myself, across almost every part of Ukraine numerous times in the last 13 years.

I was referring to the difficulty of life
You know what Bo,,, I really don't believe in that when placing it in this context.

If you are fighting for a position when climbing the ladder, no one are going to step aside and offer you the place.
You will have to fight to the absolute ability of every nerve in your body as long as you are awake.
And you are fighting with other humans that will do exactly the same, using every trick ever invented by mankind, to make you slip and fall.
Wether you are in Los Angeles, in Oslo or in Kiev the game is the same, there are similar written and unwritten rules for all players to follow.
All participants are still only humans that have the same 24 hours a day available for using as fit.

I sat at the sidelines 30 years ago watching my lady fighting her way from serving coffee to become "Business Woman Of The Year" in Norway.
And I have Lena sleeping in the bed beside me, totally exhausted every day of the week from fighting the same game on her way up.

But in general, I truly admire the women I meet with in Ukraine for being able to support a family on their own, working almost constantly every single hour of their life.

Ukrainians are well educated, certainly as well, if not better educated, than many of their Western counterparts.  I had hoped, on the collapse of communism, that the country would flourish, with a rule of law by now, and a standard of living similar to that of some Western countries.  I also assumed, after the collapse, that the suppressed arts would flourish, that there would be a burst of artistic creativity in all spheres.  Instead, I read newspapers full of basic grammatical errors, suggesting the reporters' and editors' diplomas were purchased rather than earned, no interesting authors have emerged, and most of the musical artists are churning out rehashed Soviet pop tunes, or the same Europop.  The country is ruled by the former ruling class who now, instead of being committed to communism, are corrupt oligarchs who live with no rule of law, not a care about how the populace they are elected to serve live, and no Moscow to control the worst of their avaricious impulses.

Bo,,, these are similar to my own thoughts 13 years ago, sitting behind the steering wheel of my own car, watching thousands of kilometers disappear at my side.
I remember very well, telling Lena to look closely at her own Ukraine, when passing by, because in a few years time it would all change it's face.
Looking back, I was quite a bit too optimistic about that.... smile

 
Nei nei nei, this is my bubble and you may not deflate it.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 23, 2013, 11:45:22 AM
]

For the sake of others-- I will repeat what I have said previously and alluded to above. There are specific things Ukraine within my exposure  that  you know--or knew very little of -eg the mob and agency business-reference you agreeing with unesteemed member resident in Estonia and being prepared to dispute it with others on forum -some who were referencing first hand anecdotes from now wives-- who had in fact lived in Ukraine far more recently than you.
Let me give another example --- in response to a forum question( by LT as it it happens) as to how to get from a Ukraine city ( not far from where you came from :) ) -- a lady member!! advised a convoluted cross country route of bus and train connections   to Kharkov.It was in winter and would have involved considerable time waiting around etc.
I suggested--the best and EASIEST way was to train/bus direct back to Kiev and catch express train to Kharkov.
For that simple common sense advice (which I stand by until this day)  I was assailed by forum fools and bag carriers whose assertion was I would not have a clue etc and that "lady" had far more knowledge of Ukraine than me etc
Of course-- you  still think I have never been there so not much I can say about that.
Your question is answered- please do not divert this thread. :)

 
I'm still waiting for you tell the natives how wrong they are because YOU have been there and therefore KNOW what is going on.
 
I guess a few more posts down the line?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 23, 2013, 11:50:10 AM

I read the beginning of this post. I'm surprised to read this. I do not think that would be one of your list ... What do you think about the fact that someone from the women on your list, she will come to meet you and to meet again with 20 men in your city? It is possible that I either obsolete or I just do not understand something.

No you are not obsolete. But then again, you are not playing a game.
 
As an aside, I wish I could go over to your house and show you how to use the quote function.  ;D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on December 23, 2013, 12:16:38 PM
Could you also show me how to get full size pictures to appear in the middle of the post.  Sorry.  I'm not as computer literate as many on this forum.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on December 23, 2013, 12:33:08 PM
Could you also show me how to get full size pictures to appear in the middle of the post.  Sorry.  I'm not as computer literate as many on this forum.

Subscribe to photobucket, flicker or something similar where you store photos and do that. The servive will give you options for copying the location of the photo in their storage area. Copy the link and then click on the Mona Lisa icon when you are replying ot quoting which is used to insert image and paste the photobucket, flicker, etc. location and voila.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: lonedrake on December 23, 2013, 08:26:47 PM
Quote
Could you also show me how to get full size pictures to appear in the middle of the post.

Jon...thats funny. I did spend a couple hours one day trying to make this work....and I was successful.....but now I can not remember how I did it.

Like Muzh says...you must transfer the pics to a place like photobucket first.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 24, 2013, 07:07:07 AM
Could you also show me how to get full size pictures to appear in the middle of the post.
Supplementing what Muzh wrote, those must be stored ANYWHERE on the 'Net:

- Right-click the photo
- The resulting context menu will show, among others, an option like "Copy Image Address"
- Paste it into your post
- Select it and click the "Insert Image" icon
 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Themes/default/images/bbc/img.gif)
Voilà!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 24, 2013, 08:44:08 AM
Elena
I'm not going to elaborate on all the intricacies of long distance Internet dating here.
As I am sure it has been covered in great detail, over and over, earlier at this site.
Some of it, most recently in Pat's posting that was split out of this thread.

For me, I have a decided upon a method of writing as many as possible that are within my search parameters.
Then filtering these for whom to answer and continue writing with.

To weed out the non serious, I submit a link in the first intro letter to a web page made for this purpose.
Integrated into the code of this web page, I have a tracker that lets me see all info on those who visit my link.
With the help of different such web pages with trackers, I can monitor a woman's interest in my personal life.
Non serious women almost never visit's my links, but also some of the serious have a lack of interest initially.
The tracker tells me how many seconds a woman is using for studying a nice photo of Lena,
what she finds interesting to watch about our family life, and what photos of me or the boys she likes the most.
It also provides me with an open window to see what interest she has in my financial position.
Some of the women visited my links again and again, spending hours viewing photos and videos of my family.

A tool like this needs some evaluation from the user, for being able to connect the right leads when reading the results.
But it has proven itself invaluable for me, in understanding early on, who is genuinely interested in me and my boys.
And most of all showing me directly, whom to stop writing with immediately.

I used the same technique in one my business ventures earlier, by sending the prospective customer various links.
From what he used the most time watching in the links, I knew how to make my sale when calling him later.
 
Later on, I try to limit writing, Skype, messaging and phone to what is necessary for keeping in touch.
As much as possible, I try to keep any romance out of it till after our meeting.
All meetings are planned as an initial one hour meeting, in a ordinary restaurant over a cup of coffee / tea.
Making it very easy and non committing to find out we like each other, and if there is any kind of physical attraction.
This one hour meeting usually extended itself to the time of the restaurant closing, and sometimes into the wee hours.
All plans were initially made with an option for a second longer meeting, which I tried to carry through whenever possible.
Even in the second meetings I tried to avoid any romance in the sense of touching or kissing.
more later....

Fathertime and others...
start with post 142 back on page 6 and you can read all about it

That's it for today... folks
I will try to make a comprehensive guide to these and other techniques I used for finding my prospective women later.

It's Christmas day and I will go make my special Waldorf Salad
Lena is almost finished with the traditional Norwegian Christmas "Ribbe"

Wikipedia:
Ribbe = Roasted pork belly, usually served with sauerkraut and boiled potatoes, Christmas sausages, meat balls and gravy. A clear favourite, eaten by six out of ten households, mainly in Trøndelag and Eastern Norway.
A Waldorf salad is a salad traditionally made of fresh apples, celery and walnuts, dressed in mayonnaise, and usually served on a bed of lettuce as an appetizer or a light meal.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on December 27, 2013, 12:21:19 AM
Then I feel it safe to turn on my "number 2" phone and make a call to my long time favorite Kirhovorad32.
I was unable to get in touch with her while driving here, and she is waiting for my call about our meeting tomorrow.
Heaven might fall down in hell, if I'm unable to get hold of her before Dniepropetrovsk36 arrives here.

After 20 minutes on the phone with Kirhovorad32, I step out of the doorway where I have been partially hiding and watching the French Carousel.
But Dniepropetrovsk36 is nowhere to be seen...
I can't see anyone on the lookout for a meeting at all, except for a younger woman toddling restlessly around the carousel,
Walking slowly without an aim myself, our eyes meet several times, till I finally walk over to her, presenting myself in English.....
She turns out to be the younger sister of my date, and is of course looking for me, but not recognizing me from the photos her sister had shown her.
Dniepropetrovsk36 arrives a few minutes later, looking every bit as beautiful in real life as in her photos, and with a smile and eyes made for melting my heart.
Like most all men, I'm attracted to a woman I consider to be beautiful, but with this young woman there was a special reason for it.
In my youth, there was in school, a girl with this same beautiful smile and eyes, short story is, I never got into her panties, which nagged me for years back then.
However stupid it seems, her smile and eyes, were among the main reasons for meeting with this older version of my youths secret dream.
Well, she had most of her ducks lined up, but if it wasn't for me being so attracted to her smile, I would have dropped her from my list long ago.
There were a couple of red flags with her, that I had moved to the account of doubts, just to be able to meet and look into her lovely chestnut eyes.
In the coffee shop a few minutes walk away, I made the same mistake I usually make when meeting a "non English" woman together with an "interpreter".
I was communicating mostly with her younger sister, who spoke good english, and almost forgetting, neglecting my date.
Fortunately, her sister had only an hour to spare for us, before needing to go home to take care of her child. I offered to drive her home 20 minutes away.
After dropping off her sister, Dniepropetrovsk36 suggested we could stay in the area because she lives only a few blocks away from her sister.
When ordering coffee at a small restaurant overlooking an ice rink inside a shopping center, I remembered photos of her skating with her daughter.
Between us, I know a few Russian words and she understands some English, adding Google Voice on my phone we have a conversation going.
Later, in the car outside her apartment, a couple of hours after midnight, we decide to meet again later in the week.
Driving back to Dnieprodzherzhinsk I don't see much value in a second meeting, but,,, her smile and those eyes, how could I possibly say no.

I will die only once, never to return..... what I want, I must do now.....

Next up,,, lovely Kirhovorad32
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on December 27, 2013, 03:09:20 AM
Elena
I'm not going to elaborate on all the intricacies of long distance Internet dating here.
As I am sure it has been covered in great detail, over and over, earlier at this site.
Some of it, most recently in Pat's posting that was split out of this thread.

For me, I have a decided upon a method of writing as many as possible that are within my search parameters.
Then filtering these for whom to answer and continue writing with.

To weed out the non serious, I submit a link in the first intro letter to a web page made for this purpose.
Integrated into the code of this web page, I have a tracker that lets me see all info on those who visit my link.
With the help of different such web pages with trackers, I can monitor a woman's interest in my personal life.
Non serious women almost never visit's my links, but also some of the serious have a lack of interest initially.
The tracker tells me how many seconds a woman is using for studying a nice photo of Lena,
what she finds interesting to watch about our family life, and what photos of me or the boys she likes the most.
It also provides me with an open window to see what interest she has in my financial position.
Some of the women visited my links again and again, spending hours viewing photos and videos of my family.

A tool like this needs some evaluation from the user, for being able to connect the right leads when reading the results.
But it has proven itself invaluable for me, in understanding early on, who is genuinely interested in me and my boys.
And most of all showing me directly, whom to stop writing with immediately.

I used the same technique in one my business ventures earlier, by sending the prospective customer various links.
From what he used the most time watching in the links, I knew how to make my sale when calling him later.
 
Later on, I try to limit writing, Skype, messaging and phone to what is necessary for keeping in touch.
As much as possible, I try to keep any romance out of it till after our meeting.
All meetings are planned as an initial one hour meeting, in a ordinary restaurant over a cup of coffee / tea.
Making it very easy and non committing to find out we like each other, and if there is any kind of physical attraction.
This one hour meeting usually extended itself to the time of the restaurant closing, and sometimes into the wee hours.
All plans were initially made with an option for a second longer meeting, which I tried to carry through whenever possible.
Even in the second meetings I tried to avoid any romance in the sense of touching or kissing.
more later....

Fathertime and others...
start with post 142 back on page 6 and you can read all about it

That's it for today... folks
I will try to make a comprehensive guide to these and other techniques I used for finding my prospective women later.

It's Christmas day and I will go make my special Waldorf Salad
Lena is almost finished with the traditional Norwegian Christmas "Ribbe"

Wikipedia:
Ribbe = Roasted pork belly, usually served with sauerkraut and boiled potatoes, Christmas sausages, meat balls and gravy. A clear favourite, eaten by six out of ten households, mainly in Trøndelag and Eastern Norway.
A Waldorf salad is a salad traditionally made of fresh apples, celery and walnuts, dressed in mayonnaise, and usually served on a bed of lettuce as an appetizer or a light meal.
:applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

I would congratulate North for his work. This is a very creative way to assess ladies' interest.
For all geeks and guys who have the possibility to create such a tool it is a the way to do.
Some girls as he stated can really be fascinated by photos, they would really like to meet you.

If you add an amazing biography you mulitply your chances and the comfort with her at the first meeting.  So you don't need to spend hundreds hours to write.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 03, 2014, 06:17:42 AM
Thanks Pat
You apparently understood the point of my writings,,,, smile

Here is an example from earlier this year

 (http://www.northkape.com/R-web/Rstats1.jpg)

The lady on the top from Khmelnitskiy is clearly seriously interested, in me and my boys.
Having viewed 170 pages during 14 separate visits.
Spending all of 40 minutes on the last one of her 14 visits.
I could also study in detail what she looked at, and for how long.

The lady below was also an equally beautiful young lady, at the same age of 35 years.
But looking at the tracker, she wasn't seriously interested at all, just clicking on my link and leaving.

The first one turned out to be a very nice woman, I jumped on a plane, one weekend at the end of that month to visit her. 
For the other one from Yalta, I sent her a letter, telling her how delighted I was with the photos she had sent me.
And "telling" her that I would be able to come visit her, directly after a business trip to Turkey in a few weeks time.
Of course I never heard from her again.

When deciding to look for a woman in Ukraine again a year ago, I made a detailed plan for how to find my lady, and how to avoid wasting time with "unwanted" women.
Every little detail, from fine tuning my written profile and photos, by tracking the response on hundreds of different letters, on the Mamba platform and similar.
To using an assortment of web pages with tracking, together with some carefully selected text in my letters, for weeding out all those I didn't want to meet with.
Before moving on to all possible paid and free dating sites, with my sharply honed and fine tuned profile, photos, intro letter and web tracking .
It all worked so far beyond my wildest expectations, that I almost can't believe it myself.

Now it is for time to show,, if I was able to find the right one..... smile

On a side note, I made this available today on the trip report page:

Here is a link to a page I made yesterday.
I didn't have the time for looking through thousands of older photos for finding material.
If I can remember where,, I do have some already sorted out photos that I can easily add.
Will make a note here when I update it..

Anyway there is a nice photo story from our trip to Novy Sviet in 2011.

http://northkape.com/crimea/


Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on January 03, 2014, 07:59:52 AM
A lot of people, and especially newbies have a lot to learn about what you did BEFORE contacting ladies.

I also made a huge preparation BEFORE making some contacts and before going.
 I didn't think about a site and tracking any visitors, i think that is a very SMART tool, and absolutely adapted to the FSU conquest, in the way of a SERIOUS relationship (marriage at the end).
I did something else : i wrote a story of nine pages translated by a professional translator. It costs me more than 400 $. People would think this guy is crazy no one would like to spend half hour to read such document.
They were wrong this text was a big "cheval de Troie" and raised beyond my expectations their attention.
 If some girls can spend few hours lurking photos, half hour of reading is nothing in comparison. Of course it takes me some time to do it, three weeks exactly.
If at the same time you tell to the girl i will be in your city in less than 3 weeks and for nothing she would like to miss this appointment. You are far beyond a lot of guys, especially all keyboard romeos.

A lot of guys complain to have not enough agenda. I don't know what they do but i never had such problem. Quite the opposite i realized that there are a lot of girls ready to waste your time. Prodaters, girls wanting just to improve their english, girls curious of meeting a foreigner, girls expecting a giver mainly.

i paste what you wrote, again :
"When deciding to look for a woman in Ukraine again a year ago, I made a detailed plan for how to find my lady, and how to avoid wasting time with "unwanted" women.
Every little detail, from fine tuning my written profile and photos, by tracking the response on hundreds of different letters, on the Mamba platform and similar.
To using an assortment of web pages with tracking, together with some carefully selected text in my letters, for weeding out all those I didn't want to meet with.
Before moving on to all possible paid and free dating sites, with my sharply honed and fine tuned profile, photos, intro letter and web tracking .
It all worked so far beyond my wildest expectations, that I almost can't believe it myself."


The big majority of guys have NO PLAN. that is the problem. And means are limited, especially for us guys.
You also write something valuable : "with some carefully selected text in my letters, for weeding out all those I didn't want to meet with."
This is a big plus for a woman on the seduction's diagram. When you IMPLICITELY (not agressively) confront them to your values which will decide if you would like to pursue the relationship it implies that they have to work on it to win you and you are not just an ass kicker just here to get her panties. It gives to the relationship a lot of excitement and in return  it improves your value.

Now the question is : you have had a plan, you have tools and experience, but in addition do you have some discipline ?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: The Natural on January 03, 2014, 08:31:16 AM
Wow, NK and Pat. You guys raise this quest to a whole new Level of professionalism. Very good idea to monitor level of interest from ladies by watching traffic data. I never thought about that possibility back when I was "active". You two should get together and make a company offering services, you already have valuable tools.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on January 03, 2014, 09:32:23 AM
Thanks Pat
You apparently understood the point of my writings,,,, smile

Here is an example from earlier this year

 (http://www.northkape.com/R-web/Rstats1.jpg)

The lady on the top from Khmelnitskiy is clearly seriously interested, in me and my boys.
Having viewed 170 pages during 14 separate visits.
Spending all of 40 minutes on the last one of her 14 visits.
I could also study in detail what she looked at, and for how long.

 
Hey NK,  I'm pretty surprised that the ability to track viewers of your profile exists in such detail...I wouldn't bother to do all this, but I can respect that it works for you...I just checked out the latest album...great photos...heck you can probably tell me which photos I liked best with that software of yours! hahah
Fathertime!

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on January 03, 2014, 04:05:20 PM
Wow, NK and Pat. You guys raise this quest to a whole new Level of professionalism. Very good idea to monitor level of interest from ladies by watching traffic data. I never thought about that possibility back when I was "active". You two should get together and make a company offering services, you already have valuable tools.

Hey Natural, novii god !

I begin to understand this guy now. I didn't understand few months ago why he came to present his story by an active one, followed by a past one. 
And now i understand (or i believe it  ;D ). It means that the logical heart of the poster was knowing that the story was off, and the experimented man, whatever are the emotional waves coming back from his previous marriage, was carefully planning the rest of his life. In the Heymans Le Senne typology we call them Active  and Secondary, if you had Activity you got the "passionate character".

Thank you for your post, have a nice time with your family !  :)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 04, 2014, 04:04:47 AM
Thanks for the kind words Natural and FT

About discipline Pat,, yes it is difficult, but absolutely needed.

When looking for someone to marry, you don't want to settle for "almost there",
at the same time you don't want to continue searching forever either.
My timeframe was to find her within a year, using all possible means available to me.

After searching through thousands of profiles, sending a thousand intro lettters,
writing hundreds of letters, endless hours of Skype, chat and phone,
to finally build a list of prospects to meet with.........
Then when starting to meet with your prospects, it would be insanely irrational,
to get bewildered by sex or any romance, before finishing your planned list.
 
So initially, I didn't want to commit to anything more than a one hour meeting for a cup of coffee.
However nice in writing and Skype, meeting face to face can change like to dislike, in an instant.
A fact I'm vey aware of, especially since I'm meeting with women 20+ years younger than myself.
I usually, understand almost immediately, when there is a lack of attraction.
And it happened several times this year, for her and for me.

As I wrote a week ago:
As much as possible, I try to keep any romance out of it till after our meeting.
All meetings are planned as an initial one hour meeting, in a ordinary restaurant over a cup of coffee / tea.
Making it very easy and non committing to find out we like each other, and if there is any kind of physical attraction.
This one hour meeting usually extended itself to the time of the restaurant closing, and sometimes into the wee hours.
All plans were initially made with an option for a second longer meeting, which I tried to carry through whenever possible.
Even in the second meetings I tried to avoid any romance in the sense of touching or kissing.

I failed at some crossroads during this summer,
but my last ten day trip, was almost to the point, absolutely disciplined.
Not to get engaged in any romance, before a decision to go forward is made...

Sitting here now,, I feel like being ahead of schedule, it's "mission accomplished"

I have decided to go forward with my present "one and only", and to meet with her again for a full week, at the end of February
Of course I would have liked to meet with her sooner than this, but I need also Lena's consent, in all my decisions.
Because she needs to find a way, to juggle her work schedule, for being able to handle our boys alone, when I'm away.

She is now, finally in the process of moving the most necessary items to her apartment, for living there more permanently.
Not at all easy, as she has more clothes and shoes alone, than it's physically room for at her new place.

And behind my "one and only", I have almost equally good prospects, aware of my decision, that are keeping their door open,,,,,,,

Dating with all these beautiful women was like being in heaven, but choosing only one was the hell of it.......  :)

Next up,,, meeting with lovely Kirhovorad32
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on January 04, 2014, 12:17:29 PM
Hey NK, Pat, GQ, Gator and other (me, me . . . don't forget me!!   8) )good planners . . . you know there are very few of us who have high abilities in planning and executing anything.

Most here have trouble even carrying out correspondence and meeting with one woman.

They hide behind this - - - concentrate on developing true love with the one and only . . . before the first meeting.

However, don't lose sight of the fact that it is still a crap shoot.

Planning and execution skills can increase the probability of success in any endeavor; but, in the end, there will still be an element of luck and we cannot delude ourselves that we have really found a 'till death do us part' mate.

But still, life is great with a person when you are both enjoying it to the MAX, are optimistic, and don't see an end in sight.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 04, 2014, 02:43:15 PM
Totally agree with you ML
Whomever you find, long term, it's still a crap shot....
But nothing better than finding a good foundation,
from where to start building a new and loving relationship.
(MAX optimistic, with no end in sight,,,,, smiling)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on January 04, 2014, 04:44:41 PM
Hey NK, Pat, GQ, Gator and other (me, me . . . don't forget me!!   8) )good planners . . . you know there are very few of us who have high abilities in planning and executing anything.

Most here have trouble even carrying out correspondence and meeting with one woman.

They hide behind this - - - concentrate on developing true love with the one and only . . . before the first meeting.

However, don't lose sight of the fact that it is still a crap shoot.

Planning and execution skills can increase the probability of success in any endeavor; but, in the end, there will still be an element of luck and we cannot delude ourselves that we have really found a 'till death do us part' mate.

But still, life is great with a person when you are both enjoying it to the MAX, are optimistic, and don't see an end in sight.

Hi ML.
Yes we have in common. I perfectly do agree that developping any comfort zone is a plus but it is not love before the first meeting, unfortunately many guys doing a wovo or wmvo forget this.
And i also agree that whatever you plan, there is of course a big part  of luck.

NK, i personnaly, even if i saw hundreds of profiles, contacted  really less ladiesthan you. I probably contacted less than few dozens of women. 75% of women i met were trought agencies and they had been very rarely contacted before.
I really focused and rely on the meeting. Of course i choose women on some personal criterias : age, photos which i considered  attractive (for me), profile with the word "generous" not written (i systematically unckecked ALL women with "generous man wanted"), children between 0 and 1. The rest ? it has low value in my eyes because the most important is to be with the lady and to feel her, to smell her, to play with her, to look at her, to catch emotions that you wake up in her.
I was not using Skype at this time. I understand that is a great tool, but chemistry happens really only during the meeting. I am a zealous advocate of meeting first, no hope, no feelings, just this honesty and so not disappointment for anybody.

I also, like you NK avoided as possible, kissing or more with women. Compare to the number i met i avoided generally. Sex was allocated to be done in my soil. That is a big strengh and you avoid to waste your time and many complications. It is also, i find, more respectful for ladies. I had only two real, completed and commited relationships. I kissed at least seven girls on 50 but followed only one time of foreplay.

You have NK an other bonus : you know very quickly if there is a lack or not of attraction. That is a skill and many men are lacking, especially with FSU women.


Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 06, 2014, 08:42:52 PM
Pat
Yes, we used a somewhat different map for finding the way to Rome............

With much more than a hundred thousand Ukraine women, having profiles on dating sites now,
I figured I could afford a very narrow set of search criteria, and still find prospects.
By registering on almost every dating site available with Ukraine women, free and paid.
Yes, it was extremely time consuming, being close to a full time occupation for almost a year now.

But it did work, I did find young attractive mothers that passed through my small window,
and also showed a great interest in me and my boys, through writing and when meeting.

I was sending somewhere between one and two hundred intro letters for each prospect I ended up meeting with.
90% of all letters I wrote, ended in nothing, mostly because I didn't find it worthwhile to continue for some reason.
The tracking software for my web pages, was instrumental in getting rid of these "not 100% interested" women.
 
My intro letter was identical for everyone, a brief summary of my history and explaining why she was receiving it.
Consisting of 18 lines, neatly arranged in several paragraphs, and containing a link to my main intro webpage.
 
It was in Russian language, but clearly not written by a native, and at the same time, above Google translate.
My reasoning was that a perfect translation looked "bought", and Google translate, cheap and easy.
I tried to show my personal effort in providing a good Russian letter, by tweaking the result from Google translate
with the help of my own limited knowledge, and using a dictionary together with numerous back translations.
In the end Lena helped me a little also,, to get that special touch I wanted..
Result was that a lot of those answering, commented me also on my Russian writing skills,
I asked everyone the reason why they decided to answer my intro letter.
From their answers, I concluded that my intro letter was far above what they generally received from men.

Except for the intro, each and every one of my letters were personalized, and tailored to that individual woman.
Every single letter contained at least one new photo, from the present daily life of me and my boys.
As time passed by, I built a large matrix of reusable text blocks and photos, along with a database,
showing the history of all communication, with every woman I ever were in touch with...

Verbal communication on Skype, was much more difficult to keep track of and remember,,,
it's rather embarrassing, when you ask a woman the same question for the third time in six weeks,,,, smile

As a rule, I never mentioned anything that has monetary value, and can be touched by hand,,,
I was rather trying to focus on things we would have a common interest in.
Like: values, preferences, feelings, ideas, beliefs, thoughts, likes, dislikes, tastes, music, philosophy ++
And also activities you can enjoy wherever you are and whatever economic means you have available.
Like: family, children, animals, reading, being outdoor in nature, walks in the park, swimming, photography ++

Whenever they complained about life in Ukraine, I countered with positives about being alive in general.
And to look in the history books, to see how lucky we are, compared to those living in the centuries behind us.
The value of seeing and enjoying the positives of being alive and present, in what is, after all a wonderful world.
Values in my life, that were influenced also, by reading great Russian writers like Dostoyevsky.

And no Pat,, I never cared about the word "generous" it can mean a lot of different things for a woman,,,  smile



Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on January 07, 2014, 01:55:36 AM
Pat
Yes, we used a somewhat different map for finding the way to Rome............

With much more than a hundred thousand Ukraine women, having profiles on dating sites now,
I figured I could afford a very narrow set of search criteria, and still find prospects.
By registering on almost every dating site available with Ukraine women, free and paid.
Yes, it was extremely time consuming, being close to a full time occupation for almost a year now.

But it did work, I did find young attractive mothers that passed through my small window,
and also showed a great interest in me and my boys, through writing and when meeting.

I was sending somewhere between one and two hundred intro letters for each prospect I ended up meeting with.
90% of all letters I wrote, ended in nothing, mostly because I didn't find it worthwhile to continue for some reason.
The tracking software for my web pages, was instrumental in getting rid of these "not 100% interested" women.
 
My intro letter was identical for everyone, a brief summary of my history and explaining why she was receiving it.
Consisting of 18 lines, neatly arranged in several paragraphs, and containing a link to my main intro webpage.
 
It was in Russian language, but clearly not written by a native, and at the same time, above Google translate.
My reasoning was that a perfect translation looked "bought", and Google translate, cheap and easy.
I tried to show my personal effort in providing a good Russian letter, by tweaking the result from Google translate
with the help of my own limited knowledge, and using a dictionary together with numerous back translations.
In the end Lena helped me a little also,, to get that special touch I wanted..
Result was that a lot of those answering, commented me also on my Russian writing skills,
I asked everyone the reason why they decided to answer my intro letter.
From their answers, I concluded that my intro letter was far above what they generally received from men.

Except for the intro, each and every one of my letters were personalized, and tailored to that individual woman.
Every single letter contained at least one new photo, from the present daily life of me and my boys.
As time passed by, I built a large matrix of reusable text blocks and photos, along with a database,
showing the history of all communication, with every woman I ever were in touch with...

Verbal communication on Skype, was much more difficult to keep track of and remember,,,
it's rather embarrassing, when you ask a woman the same question for the third time in six weeks,,,, smile

As a rule, I never mentioned anything that has monetary value, and can be touched by hand,,,
I was rather trying to focus on things we would have a common interest in.
Like: values, preferences, feelings, ideas, beliefs, thoughts, likes, dislikes, tastes, music, philosophy ++
And also activities you can enjoy wherever you are and whatever economic means you have available.
Like: family, children, animals, reading, being outdoor in nature, walks in the park, swimming, photography ++

Whenever they complained about life in Ukraine, I countered with positives about being alive in general.
And to look in the history books, to see how lucky we are, compared to those living in the centuries behind us.
The value of seeing and enjoying the positives of being alive and present, in what is, after all a wonderful world.
Values in my life, that were influenced also, by reading great Russian writers like Dostoyevsky.

And no Pat,, I never cared about the word "generous" it can mean a lot of different things for a woman,,,  smile

I spent really, really less time than you on the correspondance. I had had my time lurking sites, few months maximum but i focussed on maximum three sites. After yes it is a big mess, unless you are very well organized (like you were).
I didn't want to spend days and nights around this. I was locally hugely invested in dating, so 75% of ladies i met were barely by agencies with generally no previous communication.
However previous trips i was generally very well organized about my communications means, profiles database and planification. Computer, two iphones, additional usb key (usb key and iphones always with me even with just a jeans and a shirt). Photos of train schedule, photos of profiles in iphones and so on.
I started by visiting two cities at the same time but i definitively focused on only one, quickly conscious about the waste of time and the risks to go from on to an other. I made two wmvo, one was a success and one was a failure. I gave up on vo. You make a vo WHEN you have already met her, not before.
It would be interesting that you detail how you manage ladies and what you tell her when you go from a city to an other. IMHO it is a tricky art.
For the rest i was lucky to have a high return of interest. I mean that in agency, if you remove the missing ones, i was having more than 60 % of date when i wanted. Thank you an elaborated profile in russian and professional photos. My first trip in Kiev few times before getting in the plane i had quickly 6 phones number in my pocket. The key is if you have prepared your dating material, you are normal and serious, and they are persuaded that you will be in their city, they would like to meet you provided that you have cross their physical attraction test.
We say it often here : speaking russian, even just a little is a nice bonus. They are curious that you are curious of their language, of their country. The fact also that you have an explicit or implicit validation by your ex wife is also a plus for the serious mates who intend to have a future with you.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jazztropy on January 08, 2014, 12:05:25 AM
I'm a late comer to this thread.  I'm glad to see the original poster had kept it alive for persons like myself to be able to benefit from his unique experience. I respect other users' privilege to throw in their 2 cents, but I still want my 2 hours back from reading the background noise.  Out of 21 pages, less than 3 are informative and the balance seem tangential to wildly varying degrees.  Patagonie's split thread is cool too.

Mr. NorthKape, please continue on, you are helping at least one person with your writing.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 08, 2014, 09:32:23 AM
Thanks for the support jazz

Pat
Just like 14 years ago, I was prepared to use whatever amount of effort that was necessary, for finding the right woman in my life.
But I didn't want to search for years, but rather to concentrate on maximum effort for a shorter period of time.
As it is clearly a numbers game,, the larger amount of numbers you are able to filter and meet, the closer you can get to your target.

Even if it doesn't give you any guarantee for happiness, you can at least start together with, what you feel is the right kind of a woman.

And yes, how to handle the "multiple woman at the same time" game is tricky, at best,,,,,,, smile

I lost many prospects because of this.
Early on in communication, I would try to hint at the wisdom of trying to communicate with more than one man, for the lady.
Of course many understood immediately then, that I was probably communicating with multiple women.
There were all kind of strange (mis)understandings of these realities related to Internet dating.
But most women I communicated with, were very active themselves, and even though I never asked about it, some of them asked me.
My answer was, that it is a necessity, for finding the right person to meet with, and that the meeting is when the relationship can start.

More tricky, is meeting multiple women at the same time without lying.
I tried to avoid it, telling them that I was visiting for business, and only had a few hours available, for meeting over a cup of coffee.
Some of them still understood, but with a smile, others also understood, while being hurt and losing interest.
For me, I would rather choose the one that understood with a smile,,,,,
so I considered it to be, just one more hurdle, my lady would have to pass for qualifying.

My previous "long" marriage with another beautiful, and very young Ukraine woman, was in my understanding, a big plus for me.
The facts about our ongoing divorce, my friendship with Lena, and me having the main custody of our boys,
was generally, also met with respect and admiration, from all but the most jealous ones.
(Women that wouldn't have been able to cooperate with Lena later, and the kind of women I wanted to avoid at all costs)

Most of all, many were very impressed, that Lena had been able to give birth to, and raise twin boys,
while at the same time, reeducating and then building a great career inside departments of the Norwegian Government.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 08, 2014, 12:36:45 PM

More tricky, is meeting multiple women at the same time without lying.
I tried to avoid it, telling them that I was visiting for business, and only had a few hours available, for meeting over a cup of coffee.
Some of them still understood, but with a smile, others also understood, while being hurt and losing interest.
For me, I would rather choose the one that understood with a smile,,,,,

Me too, provided you returned the smile and did not push them for any sense of commitment. 

Although you were not forthright, you gave enough information such that the UW could determine the score.  Actually, the smart UW could determine that you were meeting other women without you having to say anything. 

I preferred the women who did not ask.  Volunteering  the "truth" is essentially  rubbing their noses in your complicated situation.   OTOH, one should not allow FSUW to leave the meeting with the wrong impressions. 

IMO it has to be finessed politely without false statements.   Other opinions may differ, particularly since the last WMVM trip I made was 8 years ago.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Chicagoguy on January 08, 2014, 02:28:20 PM
I find it easier to always tell the truth. I never could keep my stories straight if I lied  ;).
And there came a time when I had to tell my wife. But I could tell she already suspected. And that truth was the end of it.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 08, 2014, 07:38:04 PM
Gator
Almost no one asked me directly if I were meeting other women at the same time, but several of them were able to twist,
our conversation into a track where I had to admit something like:
"there was one other interesting woman I met with almost a week ago" instead of having to resort to an obvious lie.
I was telling the truth, but only a small and rather innocent part of it.
And the more advanced minds among them, probably filled in the missing pieces themselves, whether smiling or not....

Chicago
Yes, it is often easier to simply tell the truth.
But even in situations where you want to tell the truth, it is sometimes preferable to tell as little of it as possible,
to avoid hurting someone that will have a hard time accepting the bitter realities.

Further out in this trip report is Zap32, that became very sad, when understanding that I had been writing with,
and probably also meeting with other women than her,, after deciding to divorce.
Having no Internet dating experience, when she got started a few months earlier, she had been writing with me only.

Yes, let's get back to the trip report....

Meeting with lovely Kirhovorad32

The door on my passenger side opened abruptly,,,,
when turning around, I was looking directly into the face of a frustrated young woman, trying forcefully to smile at the same time.

"Ahh,, so this is were you had parked, I was thinking you were outside that supermarket on the other side of the road,
closer to the city limits,, you should have explained it more clearly for me, Jan... It is Ok,, I will drive in front of you, can you follow me?"
A little perplexed I stuttered,, "yes, my dear, I can"

Such was the beginning of my adventure with this mysterious "amazone", that I had been writing and Skyping with for months.

When calling her half an hour before arriving, it became clear to me, that I had been driving here much faster than what she had expected.
She told me to find a place for parking my car just after passing the city limits, and then to call her on the phone.
I had been sitting there, in my car, for almost an hour after calling her,
strategically parked outside a small supermarket, in case I wanted something to eat or drink while waiting.

I had agreed to meet with Kirhovorad32 from noon till evening, and then after work the following day,
which was more of a commitment than I would usually want to agree on.
But this was a woman I should have met with in the summer, if our schedules had matched at that time.
Even so, she was still kind of an unsolvable mystery to me, being very active on two different dating sites,
with a different name, location and photo for each of them, and being completely open about it, when I asked her.
Every now and then, she would ask what other women I was writing with, and what I didn't like about those I had met with.
(Much like Kiev32, who wanted me to show her the profiles, of all those I had met with, when staying with her in the summer)

As such, I was having some doubts about my position in her mind, not really understanding what she found interesting in me.
What got me,, was the attention she gave me before my trip, there was to be no doubt at all about her wanting to meet with me.
And we had such a great time together, whenever we were talking on Skype, that our meeting couldn't possibly be a total failure.
 
Following after Kirhovorad32's car, with her driving in front of me, proved to be an adventure in itself,
she was obviously familiar with every single pothole in the road, pedal to the floor like a Kiev cab driver about to miss an appointment .
After an eternity in time, spent driving behind her, she finally stopped her car outside an apartment block.
It had taken us almost 20 minutes, to drive across her city, to what I figured was the opposite side of it.

She got out of her car, locked it, and started walking towards me, while I was on my way out to open the door for her.
Did I ever have any doubts about my "amazone» being beautiful, they were definitely blown away at this moment.
She stopped in front of me with an inviting smile and opened her arms, showing me that she was ready to be hugged.
Returning her smile, I stretched my arms out and hugged her gently, before looking into her lovely smiling face again,
instant attraction it was……

more to come when time allows.....
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jazztropy on January 08, 2014, 07:50:15 PM
Nooooh, don't stop!!!    Lol
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on January 08, 2014, 08:32:09 PM
Gator
Almost no one asked me directly if I were meeting other women at the same time, but several of them were able to twist,
our conversation into a track where I had to admit something like:
"there was one other interesting woman I met with almost a week ago" instead of having to resort to an obvious lie.
I was telling the truth, but only a small and rather innocent part of it.
And the more advanced minds among them, probably filled in the missing pieces themselves, whether smiling or not....

Chicago
Yes, it is often easier to simply tell the truth.
But even in situations where you want to tell the truth, it is sometimes preferable to tell as little of it as possible,
to avoid hurting someone that will have a hard time accepting the bitter realities.

Further out in this trip report is Zap32, that became very sad, when understanding that I had been writing with,
and probably also meeting with other women than her,, after deciding to divorce.
Having no Internet dating experience, when she got started a few months earlier, she had been writing with me only.

Yes, let's get back to the trip report....

Meeting with lovely Kirhovorad32

The door on my passenger side opened abruptly,,,,
when turning around, I was looking directly into the face of a frustrated young woman, trying forcefully to smile at the same time.

"Ahh,, so this is were you had parked, I was thinking you were outside that supermarket on the other side of the road,
closer to the city limits,, you should have explained it more clearly for me, Jan... It is Ok,, I will drive in front of you, can you follow me?"
A little perplexed I stuttered,, "yes, my dear, I can"

Such was the beginning of my adventure with this mysterious "amazone", that I had been writing and Skyping with for months.

When calling her half an hour before arriving, it became clear to me, that I had been driving here much faster than what she had expected.
She told me to find a place for parking my car just after passing the city limits, and then to call her on the phone.
I had been sitting there, in my car, for almost an hour after calling her,
strategically parked outside a small supermarket, in case I wanted something to eat or drink while waiting.

I had agreed to meet with Kirhovorad32 from noon till evening, and then after work the following day,
which was more of a commitment than I would usually want to agree on.
But this was a woman I should have met with in the summer, if our schedules had matched at that time.
Even so, she was still kind of an unsolvable mystery to me, being very active on two different dating sites,
with a different name, location and photo for each of them, and being completely open about it, when I asked her.
Every now and then, she would ask what other women I was writing with, and what I didn't like about those I had met with.
(Much like Kiev32, who wanted me to show her the profiles, of all those I had met with, when staying with her in the summer)

As such, I was having some doubts about my position in her mind, not really understanding what she found interesting in me.
What got me,, was the attention she gave me before my trip, there was to be no doubt at all about her wanting to meet with me.
And we had such a great time together, whenever we were talking on Skype, that our meeting couldn't possibly be a total failure.
 
Following after Kirhovorad32's car, with her driving in front of me, proved to be an adventure in itself,
she was obviously familiar with every single pothole in the road, pedal to the floor like a Kiev cab driver about to miss an appointment .
After an eternity in time, spent driving behind her, she finally stopped her car outside an apartment block.
It had taken us almost 20 minutes, to drive across her city, to what I figured was the opposite side of it.

She got out of her car, locked it, and started walking towards me, while I was on my way out to open the door for her.
Did I ever have any doubts about my "amazone» being beautiful, they were definitely blown away at this moment.
She stopped in front of me with an inviting smile and opened her arms, showing me that she was ready to be hugged.
Returning her smile, I stretched my arms out and hugged her gently, before looking into her lovely smiling face again,
instant attraction it was……

more to come when time allows.....


Great story thus far NK, thanks for keeping it going...    question... Amazon=amazone?  or different significance?


Nooooh, don't stop!!!    Lol


Hey Jazztropy...i was just digging that other crazy avatar of yours and then you go and change it!  lol


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jazztropy on January 08, 2014, 09:10:31 PM
Thanks for noticing.  Lol
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: calmissile on January 08, 2014, 10:34:31 PM
As far as telling a woman you are visiting many women, the last strategy I used turned out to be the best for me.  I simply said I was on vacation and wanted to meet a lot of interesting people and was not on a mission to specifically find a wife.  Also, I wanted to visit many of the historical sites (all true).

Larissa must have figured it out on her own, because she latched onto me and tracked me all over Ukraine.  Like they say, if a FSU woman wants you.... there will be no doubt in your mind.....and you would have trouble escaping even if you wanted to.     ;D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jazztropy on January 08, 2014, 10:41:38 PM
As far as telling a woman you are visiting many women, the last strategy I used turned out to be the best for me.  I simply said I was on vacation and wanted to meet a lot of interesting people and was not on a mission to specifically find a wife.  Also, I wanted to visit many of the historical sites (all true).

Larissa must have figured it out on her own, because she latched onto me and tracked me all over Ukraine.  Like they say, if a FSU woman wants you.... there will be no doubt in your mind.....and you would have trouble escaping even if you wanted to.     ;D

Thanks for that, Mr. Cal.  Quite a goldmine of knowledge there!

I notice "watched" below your avatar.  What is that supposed to mean?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: calmissile on January 08, 2014, 11:03:01 PM
Thanks for that, Mr. Cal.  Quite a goldmine of knowledge there!

I notice "watched" below your avatar.  What is that supposed to mean?

Means I was a bad boy and am on probation for a while.    ;D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: The Natural on January 09, 2014, 01:49:07 AM
jazztropy:

I notice "watched" below your avatar.  What is that supposed to mean?

Means I was a bad boy and am on probation for a while.    ;D

It means Larissa is watching him here too  :P
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on January 09, 2014, 02:03:29 AM
jazztropy:

I notice "watched" below your avatar.  What is that supposed to mean?

It means Larissa is watching him here too  :P
:ROFL:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 09, 2014, 09:36:54 AM
Cal
Thanks for adding valuable information.....

FT
Amazon = Classical Myth & Legend,, Greek myth, a race of women warriors of Scythia near the Black Sea
They were supposed to be close to 2 meters high and very strong and dangerous women,,
and more of a legend than myth as they did exist, close to the Black Sea (in Ukraine also)
Todays myths, often portrays an "Amazon" as some kind of "ultra sexy, super feminist" (eating men for breakfast)

Amazone = an old French word, meaning among other things: a horseback riding woman, strong enough to ride alone without escort...
In todays world, sometimes used in the meaning of a strong beautiful woman "galleon figure",
And when portraying a more sexy, womanly variant of that 2 meter high woman warrior......... 

A mix of these attributes befits Kirhovorad32 quite good, as she is an excellent horseback rider also......

Here is a typical comic book expression of an amazon,,,
(Kirhovorad32 wouldn't need to feel the slightest bit ashamed, standing next to her either),,,,,, smile



 (http://www.northkape.com/R-web/Raz1.jpg)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on January 09, 2014, 05:38:42 PM
The 'best' women are those who:

* know (without being told) that you are on a WMVM,
* don't ask about it,
* don't care about it as they are confident in themselves and are not afraid of a competition.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jazztropy on January 09, 2014, 06:41:24 PM

Here is a typical comic book expression of an amazon,,,
(Kirhovorad32 wouldn't need to feel the slightest bit ashamed, standing next to her either),,,,,, smile



 (http://www.northkape.com/R-web/Raz1.jpg)

Hey, that's wonder woman!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on January 09, 2014, 08:06:06 PM


FT
Amazon = Classical Myth & Legend,, Greek myth, a race of women warriors of Scythia near the Black Sea
They were supposed to be close to 2 meters high and very strong and dangerous women,,
and more of a legend than myth as they did exist, close to the Black Sea (in Ukraine also)
Todays myths, often portrays an "Amazon" as some kind of "ultra sexy, super feminist" (eating men for breakfast)

Amazone = an old French word, meaning among other things: a horseback riding woman, strong enough to ride alone without escort...
In todays world, sometimes used in the meaning of a strong beautiful woman "galleon figure",
And when portraying a more sexy, womanly variant of that 2 meter high woman warrior......... 

A mix of these attributes befits Kirhovorad32 quite good, as she is an excellent horseback rider also......

Here is a typical comic book expression of an amazon,,,
(Kirhovorad32 wouldn't need to feel the slightest bit ashamed, standing next to her either),,,,,, smile
 
   Thanks for the clarification of terms and the visual. it sounds like quite an amazone woman you have found! Hopefully things continue to move forward positively,,,,

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Daveman on January 09, 2014, 11:10:50 PM
Gator
Almost no one asked me directly if I were meeting other women at the same time, but several of them were able to twist,
our conversation into a track where I had to admit something like:
"there was one other interesting woman I met with almost a week ago" instead of having to resort to an obvious lie.
I was telling the truth, but only a small and rather innocent part of it.
And the more advanced minds among them, probably filled in the missing pieces themselves, whether smiling or not....

I doubt the less advanced minds missed it either, without any extra pieces.  Pretty much if she knows you are in the country, and not visiting with "her", she will think you are meeting with other women.  Whether any of them steer the conversation that way or not, they know. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: JayH on January 09, 2014, 11:15:03 PM
I doubt the less advanced minds missed it either, without any extra pieces.  Pretty much if she knows you are in the country, and not visiting with "her", she will think you are meeting with other women.  Whether any of them steer the conversation that way or not, they know.
The issue is one of the most important to get clear in your head.One of the biggest hurdles that has to be jumped is for her to know you are serious-both about her and in your search.If a girl knows you plan to see others-it will never be forgotten !!  ;D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2014, 01:58:58 AM
The 'best' women are those who:

* know (without being told) that you are on a WMVM,
* don't ask about it,
* don't care about it as they are confident in themselves and are not afraid of a competition.
+2
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2014, 02:03:07 AM
I doubt the less advanced minds missed it either, without any extra pieces.  Pretty much if she knows you are in the country, and not visiting with "her", she will think you are meeting with other women.  Whether any of them steer the conversation that way or not, they know.
+1
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 10, 2014, 02:40:54 AM
Meeting more than one....

I agree with ML
Best are those who understands all of it by themselves,, and do exactly the same on their own.

Dave,, I did meet with a few that didn't understand.....
Like I wrote above:

Further out in this trip report is Zap32, that became very sad, when understanding that I had been writing with,
and probably also meeting with other women than her,, after deciding to divorce.
Having no Internet dating experience, when she got started a few months earlier, she had been writing with me only.

FT, I have been very fortunate in finding and building a good relationship with three of Ukraine's very beautiful "amazones"
And now, a few weeks after deciding to go forward with one of them, I feel very good about the possibility of having a future together with her.
Time will tell...... smile

Jay, one thing I always tried to do, was to encourage the woman to write with more men than me,,,,
Telling her that I would feel terrible, if I were to win her heart, because I was the only one participating in the quest.
But this is a man's logic, and it doesn't always resonate equally well with a woman's heart,,, do believe me..... smile
If you are able to get some sympathy for it however, she will be more understanding of the realities in Internet dating.

Pat, you got it....

Having an amazon the last time around,,,  I wanted to show an amazone also.
Unfortunately there aren't too many such drawings floating around the Internet
So I decided to do one my self,,,
Using one of Kirhovorad32's swimsuit photos from last summer, and posterizing it to make it look like a drawing.
For then to squeeze her into the background of the amazon drawing and keeping her hair style.
I'm not an expert at this and didn't want to spend a lot of time...... but here it is.

A true Ukraine amazone


(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/Raz2.jpg)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Shadow on January 10, 2014, 07:20:38 AM
The 'best' women are those who:

* know (without being told) that you are on a WMVM,
* don't ask about it,
* don't care about it as they are confident in themselves and are not afraid of a competition.

The "worst"women are those who:
* are corresponding with and meeting other men while they are corresponding with you
* do not tell you about it
* tell you the other guy they met was better than you.... and he is RUSSIAN.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 10, 2014, 07:50:14 AM


A true Ukraine amazone


(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/Raz2.jpg)

Interesting!   I wonder whose face was superimposed over Wonder Woman's face.  You did retain the Soviet Red Star.   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Daveman on January 10, 2014, 07:57:13 AM
Meeting more than one....

I agree with ML
Best are those who understands all of it by themselves,, and do exactly the same on their own.

Dave,, I did meet with a few that didn't understand.....
Like I wrote above:

Further out in this trip report is Zap32, that became very sad, when understanding that I had been writing with,
and probably also meeting with other women than her,, after deciding to divorce.
Having no Internet dating experience, when she got started a few months earlier, she had been writing with me only.



Interesting NK.  Were they aware of your time "in country" before/after your meetings?  If so, that one or more didn't connect the dots would surprise me.  Certainly they may be vulnerable to the same wishful/hopeful thinking process that the men are, but it really is difficult to imagine they'd be clueless with regard to 'women's intuition". 

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 10, 2014, 08:51:53 AM
Shadow
Why so,, I would consider the first two, to be the best women, doing exactly what I consider to be the smart way to find your one and only.
The third are the largest majority of women, they prefer a man of their own nationality, for a lot of different reason.
Better, in what context,,, ?? I can't actually remember any woman using that word when telling me, that I wasn't the one for her.
But whatever the context, i am fully aware that there are men better than me in all possible ways, wherever the geographical place.
It doesn't matter as long as I find the one I'm looking for. And whatever "worst" she might be for another man, she can still be my "best",,,,, smile

Gator,,, didn't you read, or maybe it wasn't clear enough,, it's the face of lovely Kirhovorad32,,, smile

Dave
They were of course aware that I was in Ukraine before and after. I always told the truth about my stay,
in case they for one reason or another would look at my passport.
And all women I met with had an university degree or better, so they weren't stupid either, but sometimes a little out on the naive side.
I felt very sorry for Zap32, even though I did suspect her to be a little unrealistic from reading her letters.
A very beautiful and honest woman with nothing to hide, but naive in her understanding of Internet dating.
She was so disappointed that her profile now appears to be close to dead, inactive for more than three weeks.
More later about her.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2014, 11:28:15 AM
We saw on forums, especially after 40, some women having a pristine way of dating. I suspect that they are not acquainted also with the web.
It can work, unfortunately against them because they can offer a lot.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Shadow on January 10, 2014, 01:42:41 PM
Shadow
Why so,, I would consider the first two, to be the best women, doing exactly what I consider to be the smart way to find your one and only.
The third are the largest majority of women, they prefer a man of their own nationality, for a lot of different reason.
Better, in what context,,, ?? I can't actually remember any woman using that word when telling me, that I wasn't the one for her.
But whatever the context, i am fully aware that there are men better than me in all possible ways, wherever the geographical place.
It doesn't matter as long as I find the one I'm looking for. And whatever "worst" she might be for another man, she can still be my "best",,,,, smile
NK, the post was a reply in jest, as there are men who expect the women to sit and wait until they arrive. There are unrealistic expectations on both sides, and for both sides the key is to find someone who matches in expectations and character.

In the debates I always mention there is no "best" way, only a most effective one for the person who is searching.
When travel distance is long, meeting more than one candidate is a possibility. However to make it a fair chance for all that you will meet is a challenge not many men can handle, and I include myself among the ones who can not.
Luckily I had a short travel distance making it possible to do a first meeting of 3 days dedicated to a single woman. Short enough not to need backups, long enough to know if we wanted to meet for a longer time.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: JayH on January 10, 2014, 04:46:25 PM
NK---is your K32 Amazone  Galya? :D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on January 10, 2014, 06:26:10 PM
The "worst"women are those who:
* are corresponding with and meeting other men while they are corresponding with you
* do not tell you about it
* tell you the other guy they met was better than you.... and he is RUSSIAN.

I wouldn't agree with this.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 12, 2014, 03:48:28 AM
Shadow
I see, and definitely agree about there being no "best way"...
It's for everyone to decide for themselves, what they feel comfortable with, and to accept or not the outcome..... smile

Jay,, if you are asking about her name being Galya,,,, no it's not.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 12, 2014, 08:28:38 AM






Quote
  The "worst"women are those who:
* are corresponding with and meeting other men while they are corresponding with you
* do not tell you about it
* tell you the other guy they met was better than you.... and he is RUSSIAN.

I wouldn't agree with this.


ML,

Shadow examined your criteria for what you described as the "best women" and took the completely opposite view.  By deduction these contrarian criteria would define the "worst women."

Maybe Shadow is having a little fun and making a point without belaboring the explanation.

Anyway, I  believe its best to not date women who make an issue about a man traveling 7000 miles and possibly meeting other women.  I took it as a sign of a desperate woman,  a woman with no dating life, or a woman with some issues (e. g. controlling, highly emotional, no self-esteem, etc.). 

IMO most of the better women were not staying home alone before a Western man got on a plane to meet her.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on January 12, 2014, 12:20:27 PM
Anyway, I  believe its best to not date women who make an issue about a man traveling 7000 miles and possibly meeting other women.  I took it as a sign of a desperate woman,  a woman with no dating life, or a woman with some issues (e. g. controlling, highly emotional, no self-esteem, etc.). 

IMO most of the better women were not staying home alone before a Western man got on a plane to meet her.

Why straight away think women have issues and not to consider those women believe guys who travel to meet many women have issues? Which actually closer to the way they look on the matter. Of course those women are not staying at home alone without any kind of personal life. And of course they know guys do not stay at home alone either. It is one thing to meet someone special and decide to go meet that particular person even if that person is abroad and other thing to think guy in order to meet women have to go abroad therefore has some issues with meeting women locally.  8)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 12, 2014, 02:47:52 PM
Why straight away think women have issues and not to consider those women believe guys who travel to meet many women have issues? Which actually closer to the way they look on the matter.

Who has the most issues, men or women?   I would agree with you that not a small number of men contacting FSUW seem to have issues.   I have no data other than the number of comments made by RW about some of the strange men they encountered.   

Considering only men who make the trip, I assert the percentage with issues drops significantly.   Yet some weird men still make the trip (as told to me by one agency owner). 

Are the FSUW they meet free of issues?  I met a few RW who seemed to have an issue.  Exactly what was the issue in each case?  I don't know, yet it was strong enough to signal me to "stay away."

Having an issue does not necessarily mean he or she is psychotic.  I use the term "issue" to signify a FSUW who would be difficult to live with (more specifically, to live with me  :D). 



Quote
Of course those women are not staying at home alone without any kind of personal life.


A good looking, intelligent  RW is of course very attractive to RM.

Quote
It is one thing to meet someone special and decide to go meet that particular person even if that person is abroad and other thing to think guy in order to meet women have to go abroad therefore has some issues with meeting women locally.  8)

Yes, entirely too different categories,  a light-year apart.  Begs the question of why would a FSUW meet with a man she believes is so unworthy that he can not get a date with women from his city.    OK, OK!  I will read the exploitation thread again.  :)   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on January 12, 2014, 05:51:23 PM
I am actually quiet intrigued now about what would have been your thoughts, guys, if you would have ended up being put in same position.

So ... you met online woman from different country who informs you she is seeking husband. She for one or another reason doesn't like men from her own country and wants to find husband from your country. She is planning to visit your country shortly and offers you meet for cup of tea to see if there is any chemistry between you two. While she is visiting your country she is planning to do such meetings as with you as with many men as possible in order for her to find the best potential husband. Do you meet her or not? Will you think she could be the one for you or you would wonder why on earth she needs to get on the plane to have a cup of tea with random guys? Would your mind do not play with idea she has some issues otherwise she would not have trouble to date in her own country?

 :devil:  :devil:  :devil:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on January 12, 2014, 06:35:27 PM
missA,

I personally agree with you.  I have never been much of a WMVM type guy.  But, to each their own.

If I knew that a woman was gonna meet with a whole bunch of guys, I'd wonder what diseases she carries.

And I will say this:  I still wonder what types of problems women might have that want to meet with me in the first place.  Are they desperate or what?  I mean, if you've seen my mug, there are some much better looking guys out there.  Why can't she land one of them?  Why does she have to settle for me?

(Believe it or not, I actually have these thoughts.)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 12, 2014, 06:39:22 PM
I am actually quiet intrigued now about what would have been your thoughts, guys, if you would have ended up being put in same position.

This would indeed be odd, far more odd than the issue of the "hunter" becoming the "hunted."  I will speculate.

Personally I would be honored IF the woman were attractive, smart and interesting.  Would I meet her?  Hell yes!  Even if I knew she had many other men to meet.   

Now the critical issue.  Let's assume I like her based on the meeting.  There is some chemistry, YET not enough for her to cancel the planned meetings with other men and spend more time with me.  If so, I would then wish her well and go on with my life, not expecting her to call again. 

Would I be offended?  No.    I probably would send her a brief email after one month, saying I was thinking of her and asking if she was planning to return to America soon.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Misha on January 12, 2014, 06:45:44 PM
So ... you met online woman from different country who informs you she is seeking husband. She for one or another reason doesn't like men from her own country and wants to find husband from your country. She is planning to visit your country shortly and offers you meet for cup of tea to see if there is any chemistry between you two. While she is visiting your country she is planning to do such meetings as with you as with many men as possible in order for her to find the best potential husband. Do you meet her or not?


If I were single, why wouldn't I meet with her?


I would have nothing to lose. Just as long as she does not ask me for money before meeting, then I would not refuse a chance to meet with her. What is the worst that could happen?!? A boring date? Not really a big loss in the greater scheme of things and at the very least I might have a nice conversation and learn something new about her country.


Thus, given that there would be close to zero cost, and the risks would be insignificant, I would meet with her in a heartbeat even if she were planning to meet dozens of men. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on January 12, 2014, 06:48:01 PM
And if there is some chemistry but she wishes to proceed with her meetings schedule as planned just in case she meets better candidate. Also in meantime she wishes to keep contact (you know in case there is no better option). 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 12, 2014, 06:56:44 PM
And if there is some chemistry but she wishes to proceed with her meetings schedule as planned just in case she meets better candidate. Also in meantime she wishes to keep contact (you know in case there is no better option).

Great.  Meanwhile,  I am not cancelling Saturday's date with a divorcee from my bank.  And if she suggests a future meeting date that conflicts with a planned golf trip to Ireland, I still go golfing. 

The only aspect that gives me cause MissAmeno is the fact she is evaluating everyone as a husband rather than dating, having fun,  and seeing what develops.  That is what is weird (and risky IMO) about the truncated MOB dating process.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on January 12, 2014, 06:57:44 PM
Gator/Mish, you both commented only that you would meet but said nothing if you would question (even if at least in your mind) why she has to travel so far for dating. Good looking woman without issues should not have a trouble finding someone locally and here you are meeting good looking girl who instead of dating locally setting up number of dates abroad. Your mind will just blank out that fact? 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 12, 2014, 06:59:32 PM
Gator/Mish, you both commented only that you would meet but said nothing if you would question (even if at least in your mind) why she has to travel so far for dating. Good looking woman without issues should not have a trouble finding someone locally and here you are meeting good looking girl who instead of dating locally setting up number of dates abroad. Your mind will just blank out that fact?

No!  It certainly would be a point of discussion sometime at our meeting.  I would not phrase it as "There must be something wrong with you."   I would try to be subtle.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on January 12, 2014, 07:04:03 PM

The only aspect that gives me cause MissAmeno is the fact she is evaluating everyone as a husband rather than dating, having fun,  and seeing what develops. 

Gator  :blowkiss:

I never understood 'I am looking for wife/husband'. In my mind you meet someone first, then build relationship to the point when you want to spend the rest of your life with that person and only then think about marriage. When I found these forums I was shocked there are people who decide to marry first and only then start to search whom they should marry.  This concept for me is backwards from what I see as natural process.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on January 12, 2014, 07:11:21 PM
No!  It certainly would be a point of discussion sometime at our meeting.  I would not phrase it as "There must be something wrong with you."   I would try to be subtle.

Even if you do not say to her anything at all about it, it is something that you will think about and try to understand the reasons behind her actions.

Same with FSUW when guys offer them meeting for cup of tea while they are in the country to meet as many women as possible. Some FSUW will agree to meet and ask more questions, some will decide it is waste of time because more likely something is wrong with a guy in a first place.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on January 12, 2014, 07:19:06 PM
missA,
I mean, if you've seen my mug, there are some much better looking guys out there.  Why can't she land one of them?  Why does she have to settle for me?

Jone, I did see your mug  :P

Women do not form opinion about men just by their mugs.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on January 12, 2014, 07:21:46 PM
Oh, for gosh sake.

We live in a time where we refuse to be called a number.  If a woman wants to buy me dinner and is coming all the way from the FSU to take me out, sure I'd say yes.  But the reality is, that if I knew she was meeting many other men, I wouldn't put any stock in it. 

Anyone who claims the opposite is not being real.

Now if she said:  I have other obligations to meet with men I've contacted but I am no longer interested, then you have a meeting and chemistry AND action on the part of the woman.  But the OP in this thread had made meeting many women (and sleeping with some) a journey to many kingdoms.   ::)

missA made a point and I don't think people are getting it.  I did from the first time she brought it up.  And the correlation to this thread is EVIDENT.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 12, 2014, 07:22:54 PM
Gator  :blowkiss:

I never understood 'I am looking for wife/husband'. In my mind you meet someone first, then build relationship to the point when you want to spend the rest of your life with that person and only then think about marriage. When I found these forums I was shocked there are people who decide to marry first and only then start to search whom they should marry.  This concept for me is backwards from what I see as natural process.

You got it.  However, not everyone has the time and money for multiple trips.  So what to do?  Forget about that beautiful, intriguing  woman or take a chance. 

It can work if there is some magic in the beginning and both are committed, patient, and flexible.  Also important, having aligned sense of humor, goals and values.     

Gosh, that's a lot.  I don't know if I have ever had all of those qualities in any relationship.   Certainly not all the time.  That reminds me - also important conflict resolution skills  :D.

My wife and I lack a couple of these ideal qualities.  However, we are working on our differences.  Plus, I have never been loved so passionately and deeply in my life, and that goes a long way, a very long way.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 12, 2014, 07:26:21 PM
But the OP in this thread had made meeting many women (and sleeping with some) a journey to many kingdoms.   ::)

Sleeping with some or one?  Northkape is discrete about sex and what little he has revealed suggests very little sex.

And if he had sex with more than one woman, so what.  He is a grownup as are the women he meets.  Sex is wonderful with the right person at the right time. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on January 12, 2014, 07:27:21 PM
I am actually quiet intrigued now about what would have been your thoughts, guys, if you would have ended up being put in same position.

So ... you met online woman from different country who informs you she is seeking husband. She for one or another reason doesn't like men from her own country and wants to find husband from your country. She is planning to visit your country shortly and offers you meet for cup of tea to see if there is any chemistry between you two. While she is visiting your country she is planning to do such meetings as with you as with many men as possible in order for her to find the best potential husband. Do you meet her or not? Will you think she could be the one for you or you would wonder why on earth she needs to get on the plane to have a cup of tea with random guys? Would your mind do not play with idea she has some issues otherwise she would not have trouble to date in her own country?

 >:D >:D >:D


Within this scenario, it would appear 'I' would have been on a 'singles' relationship website probably an international one .. If that is the case, and a woman decided she wanted to meet with me...yes I would meet her if she were attractive and appeared to be normal...  Could she be the one for 'me'?  Perhaps, it would depend on how our time together went....   As far as assuming somebody has issues...I wouldn't make that assumption, if she were to write something weird or she gave me that impression during our time together then I probably make a judgement


... If she doesn't like men in her own country, that in itself would not be a problem for me...but I would try to ascertain what it was that left her feeling that way and decide if I am pretty much the same thing she doesn't like...   


Bottom line if a beautiful young woman wanted to meet me while single...I'd almost certainly do so just to see where it went. 


Fathertime!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 12, 2014, 07:29:45 PM



... If she doesn't like men in her own country, that in itself would not be a problem for me...but I would try to ascertain what it was that left her feeling that way and decide if I am pretty much the same thing she doesn't like...   


Good answer!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: missAmeno on January 12, 2014, 07:36:17 PM
Let's add one more twist ...  :devil:

She is not the only one. You get such request regularly from various women from abroad. Do you go meet every one of them? Or you do not bother wasting your time and try to find someone who interested just in you instead of all those who inviting you for cup of tea in order that they could evaluate you in comparison with all other their dates?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: calmissile on January 12, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
Even if you do not say to her anything at all about it, it is something that you will think about and try to understand the reasons behind her actions.

Same with FSUW when guys offer them meeting for cup of tea while they are in the country to meet as many women as possible. Some FSUW will agree to meet and ask more questions, some will decide it is waste of time because more likely something is wrong with a guy in a first place.

MissA,
I have to agree with you.  It is awkward to announce you are looking for a wife.  That is why after my train wreck a couple years ago, I decided to take a 3 month vacation to Ukraine and I told the women that I wanted to meet many people and make friends.  No mention of looking for a wife.  I also advised them while on vacation, I planned to visit all the war history sites and memorials.

I was extreemely lucky on the trip.  Even though I visited several women, no one could hold a candle to the qualities of Larissa.  Not only her looks, but how she treated me.  She made the arrangements for us to visit all the war history sites.  She wasn't really happy about me visiting other women, but I was not going to shut down the whole vacation and plan, to get locked into the first woman I met.  She tracked me all over Ukraine and wanted to know who I was seeing, how I knew them, etc.  I suspect that is normal female behavior.

When I got back to Keiv, she convinced me to delay my departure for a week and take me on a vacation to Sevestopal (with her 4 year old dauther).   I suspect this was as much a test of how her daughter and I would get along as well as explore the chemistry between her and I.  This is the week we fell in love.  No distractions from family or her work.  It was great being together as an imaginary family.  The rest is history.

If I had it to do all over again, I would do it the same way.  Vacation, meet and befriend a  lot of locals, and explore the culture.  It worked a lot better than making a trip with only one mission in mind.     ;D
 I should also point out  that in the process of meeting locals, there are friends of friends and it seems everyone has a friend or relative that they want you to meet (women).

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: calmissile on January 12, 2014, 07:44:18 PM
Let's add one more twist ...  :devil:

She is not the only one. You get such request regularly from various women from abroad. Do you go meet every one of them? Or you do not bother wasting your time and try to find someone who interested just in you instead of all those who inviting you for cup of tea in order that they could evaluate you in comparison with all other their dates?

That's the beauty of Skype.  You can sort out the 'not interested' from the 'maybes'.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on January 12, 2014, 07:54:48 PM
Let's add one more twist ...  >:D

She is not the only one. You get such request regularly from various women from abroad. Do you go meet every one of them? Or you do not bother wasting your time and try to find someone who interested just in you instead of all those who inviting you for cup of tea in order that they could evaluate you in comparison with all other their dates?


Since I'm a guy and if we are talking about beautiful women from abroad that are coming to meet me (among other men)...I'd meet everyone I reasonably could! It sounds like fun to me.


Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jone on January 12, 2014, 08:00:20 PM
Sleeping with some or one?  Northkape is discrete about sex and what little he has revealed suggests very little sex.

And if he had sex with more than one woman, so what.  He is a grownup as are the women he meets.  Sex is wonderful with the right person at the right time.

He is now.  Ever since Lone Drake called him on it. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Misha on January 12, 2014, 08:19:24 PM
Gator/Mish, you both commented only that you would meet but said nothing if you would question (even if at least in your mind) why she has to travel so far for dating. Good looking woman without issues should not have a trouble finding someone locally and here you are meeting good looking girl who instead of dating locally setting up number of dates abroad. Your mind will just blank out that fact?


That is a good question and I would certainly try to bring it up discretely when we met in person. Again, what would I have to lose? If ever the date is a dud, I would simply find a way to cut it short. Okay, fine, I will meet her in a public location just in case she is a serial killer  ;)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Misha on January 12, 2014, 08:21:19 PM
Let's add one more twist ...  >:D

She is not the only one. You get such request regularly from various women from abroad. Do you go meet every one of them? Or you do not bother wasting your time and try to find someone who interested just in you instead of all those who inviting you for cup of tea in order that they could evaluate you in comparison with all other their dates?


Well, I confess, I will be like most men and will decide within ten seconds of seeing her photo  ;)  If I get a continuous stream of attractive women asking me for dates, then, yes, I would certainly try to meet them all as I know dating is a numbers game.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: jazztropy on January 12, 2014, 08:29:47 PM
Let's add one more twist ...  :devil:

She is not the only one. You get such request regularly from various women from abroad. Do you go meet every one of them? Or you do not bother wasting your time and try to find someone who interested just in you instead of all those who inviting you for cup of tea in order that they could evaluate you in comparison with all other their dates?

Thanks for your point of view.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Shadow on January 13, 2014, 12:51:23 AM

Well, I confess, I will be like most men and will decide within ten seconds of seeing her photo  ;)  If I get a continuous stream of attractive women asking me for dates, then, yes, I would certainly try to meet them all as I know dating is a numbers game.
Now lets add another twist. The women are not attractive, but very sweet and can offer you a better lifestyle due to them being daughter of an olicharch.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Misha on January 13, 2014, 01:45:12 AM
Now lets add another twist. The women are not attractive, but very sweet and can offer you a better lifestyle due to them being daughter of an olicharch.


Let's see, had I met such a woman in my twenties, would I have been willing to consider the option to be a kept man, perhaps going to Harvard, Yale or Oxford for example as the husband of of the daughter of an oligarch and then staying at home to raise children and dedicate myself to my personal and professional fulfilment... Hmmm, let me think. To answer the question, I will cite Sarah Palin: "You betcha!"  ;D  So, yes, I would still have met these sweet daughters of oligarchs and gone on a date with them  ;)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 13, 2014, 08:51:44 AM


Now lets add another twist. The women are not attractive, but very sweet and can offer you a better lifestyle due to them being daughter of an olicharch.



Regarding the constraint that the women were not attractive, that would give me pause.   I am sure one or more would have many redeeming qualities.  Nevertheless, I would probably be one of those whose profile was up on an agency's site for 10 years. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on January 13, 2014, 08:54:47 AM
Now lets add another twist. The women are not attractive, but very sweet and can offer you a better lifestyle due to them being daughter of an olicharch.

AND, quite a bit older 12-15+ in years
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Shadow on January 13, 2014, 08:59:46 AM
AND, quite a bit older 12-15+ in years
But looking much younger.. well... only in their own mind. ;D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 13, 2014, 09:01:33 AM

Let's see, had I met such a woman in my twenties, would I have been willing to consider the option to be a kept man, perhaps going to Harvard, Yale or Oxford for example as the husband of of the daughter of an oligarch and then staying at home to raise children and dedicate myself to my personal and professional fulfilment... Hmmm, let me think. To answer the question, I will cite Sarah Palin: "You betcha!"  ;D  So, yes, I would still have met these sweet daughters of oligarchs and gone on a date with them  ;)

To be comparable, one needs to add still another twist.  Marriage would require you to move to Moscow on a permanent basis.  Instead of Harvard, Yale  or Oxford you would go to Moscow State University.

How many of us can leave our country, even if the rewards are dining on caviar, front row seats at all venues, best universities, fast cars, and the like?   When in my early 30s I considered working for the UN.  After two years I proved the world was round by going home.  Yes, I missed my friends, my family, my language..... the biggest driver, however, for my return was dreaming I could accomplish more in my profession and wanting a family, kids, home and dog.

There are many international professionals who make a career of wandering the world with UN and a host of other organizations and businesses.   At RWD we have members who are expats in a foreign land.  Some people can do it.   So some of us can do it, some of us can not.   Most can not and perhaps that is why the number of RW on bridal agency sites is a small percentage of the RW population.

Now adding still another twist, assume America had become a place whose socioeconomic situation inhibited my ability to accomplish something in my professional life.  If so, I would probably move. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Daveman on January 13, 2014, 09:25:35 AM
I am actually quiet intrigued now about what would have been your thoughts, guys, if you would have ended up being put in same position.

So ... you met online woman from different country who informs you she is seeking husband. She for one or another reason doesn't like men from her own country and wants to find husband from your country. She is planning to visit your country shortly and offers you meet for cup of tea to see if there is any chemistry between you two. While she is visiting your country she is planning to do such meetings as with you as with many men as possible in order for her to find the best potential husband. Do you meet her or not? Will you think she could be the one for you or you would wonder why on earth she needs to get on the plane to have a cup of tea with random guys? Would your mind do not play with idea she has some issues otherwise she would not have trouble to date in her own country?

 :devil:  :devil:  :devil:

Honestly, if she were a woman out of the blue I don't think I could make it past the first sentence.  To understand that I was being scrutinized as a potential husband from the beginning would be an absolute put-off for me.  I would think to myself "man, this is weird. I'm going to have to pass."  I think that's pretty natural for most men.  The out of the blue scenario doesn't really work though, because she would have found my profile on a dating site with an emphasis toward marriage which itself suggests a spousal hunt.

Of course there is the understanding that to be together marriage is inevitable when dating someone from a foreign country but even so, my focus was always on attraction and fun, then whatever else would either grow from there or it wouldn't.  I was put off by anyone who seemed in a hurry to marry. 

As far as meeting: I'd have met anyone who was attractive, seemed like she'd be fun and didn't put me off in some way.  Her meeting others wouldn't bother me. I'd go have fun with her and see what happened.

I think the problem goes back to something we touched on here a few years ago.  Historically, men are used to being in competition for the attention of a woman whereas women are used to having multiple suitors competing over her.  Men tend to accept and often thrive in competition whereas women have the tendency to shy away from it.






Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Misha on January 13, 2014, 10:10:42 AM
To be comparable, one needs to add still another twist.  Marriage would require you to move to Moscow on a permanent basis.  Instead of Harvard, Yale  or Oxford you would go to Moscow State University.


I would still have met this theoretical woman even if she had been from Burkino Faso  ;)  It is a date after all, and I wouldn't have been chained up and put on a plane after finishing my dessert  :P

Quote
Now adding still another twist, assume America had become a place whose socioeconomic situation inhibited my ability to accomplish something in my professional life.  If so, I would probably move.


If I were offered a job tomorrow where my quality of life would be better (less snow for example and better biking) and where I would have a better economic status, I would move tomorrow even if it meant having to learn another language.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on January 13, 2014, 02:56:48 PM
Now lets add another twist. The women are not attractive, but very sweet and can offer you a better lifestyle due to them being daughter of an olicharch.


For me, it would be a non-starter if the woman wasn't attractive to me....so no dates or anything else.   


Fathetime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on January 14, 2014, 03:08:50 AM
Gator  :blowkiss:

I never understood 'I am looking for wife/husband'. In my mind you meet someone first, then build relationship to the point when you want to spend the rest of your life with that person and only then think about marriage. When I found these forums I was shocked there are people who decide to marry first and only then start to search whom they should marry.  This concept for me is backwards from what I see as natural process.

I have noticed that it makes a lot of difference.

If you are a player for the bang and go to FSU saying i am here for job/vacations, a lot of FSU are not stupid and will detect it. As generally this type of guys stay one week they will test him one week.

Now if you let go to their mind that you are here to find a serious partner and have a commited relationship things will go very differently. Because this is, culturally, what a lot of FSU ladies want. They will test you accordingly, in a different way. This case is quite different of the previous one.

It is why Ukraine is not considered as a favorable place for bangers (i don't speak about the paid sex which attracts a lot of foreigners in Kiev mainly)

There will be no real couple without a man aware of his capacity of commitment (and the same for the woman, which is all the difficulty).
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on January 14, 2014, 08:41:14 AM
Let's add one more twist ...  >:D

She is not the only one. You get such request regularly from various women from abroad. Do you go meet every one of them? Or you do not bother wasting your time and try to find someone who interested just in you instead of all those who inviting you for cup of tea in order that they could evaluate you in comparison with all other their dates?

This is what I would do.
 
I'd be very selective. I'd look at the pictures and see if there are any characteristics that are compatiible with my reasoning. That would include the form of her eyes, how she smiles and posture in addition to the 'usual suspects.' So far I've been on the money when I characterize a person by the way they express themselves, especially through their eyes.
 
After that first assessment, I would establish some sort of brief communication, be it by meeting for coffee or having a phone conversation. I prefer the phone conversation.
 
What I would NOT do is schedule a set of meetings with a lot of women. That is like hoping there will be a much better one right around the corner. Basically, that would say I'm not sure of what I want or I'm not confident in my own judgement.
 
And regarding how beautiful she is, let's say that I loved one Cheer's episode of the bartender's homely daughter and her father's response when she claimed she is not beautiful. Google it.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 14, 2014, 01:12:15 PM
Jone
It is difficult to keep track of my story through all these pages, but I never spoke about sex in my search this year,
and only implicitly told about a single relationship where it might have been a possibility.

Miss A
There were always marriage agencies, and matchmakers for those who wanted to find someone to marry.

Your reasoning about first meeting someone, then building a relationship for in the end to marry is valid, and the way most do it.
At least when you are younger with years to spend, and there is a large pool of mates to choose from.

To achieve the same effect in long distance Internet dating, I feel like I'm doing exactly that,
meeting a number of women that I have some knowledge about, to see if there is a feeling of attraction with some of them.
For then to choose the one where there is mutual interest in going forward with more meetings, to see what happens.
And finally when both feel comfortable to do so, make a decision about marrying at some point in the future.
   
Personally I'm not much interested in marrying as such, it's just a necessity for being able to get her here.
But I'm definitely looking for a long term relationship, so it doesn't bother me to marry my woman either.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Misha on January 14, 2014, 02:38:37 PM
What I would NOT do is schedule a set of meetings with a lot of women. That is like hoping there will be a much better one right around the corner. Basically, that would say I'm not sure of what I want or I'm not confident in my own judgement.


Sure, perhaps scheduling in advance is not something that I would want to do, but conversely, I do not see the need to screen candidates for a simply date with such precision to ensure perfection. Sometimes, it can be fun and interesting to meet new people even if their eyes are not quite the right shade or shape or they may even have different interests and do not agree with you on each and every point. Sometimes, surprises can be fun, and meeting people simply because you enjoy people can also have its rewards. That is precisely what I liked about dating in Russia way back in the day: women were much more willing to meet with men if if they did not seem perfect.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: tfcrew on January 14, 2014, 02:48:13 PM

 
What I would NOT do is schedule a set of meetings with a lot of women. 

That rarely happens unless it's a tour or something and I've really seen very little about those since I've been married.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on January 16, 2014, 11:00:07 AM

Sure, perhaps scheduling in advance is not something that I would want to do, but conversely, I do not see the need to screen candidates for a simply date with such precision to ensure perfection. Sometimes, it can be fun and interesting to meet new people even if their eyes are not quite the right shade or shape or they may even have different interests and do not agree with you on each and every point. Sometimes, surprises can be fun, and meeting people simply because you enjoy people can also have its rewards. That is precisely what I liked about dating in Russia way back in the day: women were much more willing to meet with men if if they did not seem perfect.

Thank god for choices, eh?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 16, 2014, 11:32:08 AM

Thank god for choices, eh?

Do I detect a note of irony for emphatic effect, the irony that WM have choices and FSUW do not?   The unchosen turn  to the unchosen, the woman reluctantly, the man enthusiastically.



Dog with a bone, eh, as that was another thread, now defunct?


May we please allow Northkape to continue his story.
  I believe the man is close to revealing a major step in his chosen path.   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 16, 2014, 11:38:30 AM


.....I feel like I'm doing exactly that,
meeting a number of women that I have some knowledge about, to see if there is a feeling of attraction with some of them.
For then to choose the one where there is mutual interest in going forward with more meetings, to see what happens.
And finally when both feel comfortable to do so, make a decision about marrying at some point in the future.
   

Exactly the way it should be done.  Please continue.  We want to know who is the one.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on January 17, 2014, 09:30:46 AM
Do I detect a note of irony for emphatic effect, the irony that WM have choices and FSUW do not?   The unchosen turn  to the unchosen, the woman reluctantly, the man enthusiastically.



Dog with a bone, eh, as that was another thread, now defunct?

That's your engineering mind at work. Chill.
 
Choices? Well, Misha had his choice and I had mine. Simple.


May we please allow Northkape to continue his story.  I believe the man is close to revealing a major step in his chosen path.

It seems to me he is in the process of doing the eenie meenie miney moe, which would be the best one to...
 
Or, I wish I lived in Utah and be a Mormon.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Misha on January 17, 2014, 09:47:46 AM
Well, Misha had his choice and I had mine. Simple.


Alas, what was my choice?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on January 17, 2014, 10:48:33 AM

Chill.


OK.  Good  to know my reading between the lines was wrong.
 
 
Quote
It seems to me he is in the process of doing the eenie meenie miney moe, which would be the best one to...

When Northkape started this thread, almost everyone including me misinterpreted his intentions and questioned his integrity.   With each clarification, what at first seemed bizarre became reasonable if not prudent, iMO.       He seems to enjoy writing in an indirect manner, withholding some important details and explanations, and thereby creating some suspense and perhaps confusion.    So let's see what unfolds.   


Quote
Or, I wish I lived in Utah and be a Mormon.

May your star glow eternally. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on January 17, 2014, 01:12:12 PM

Alas, what was my choice?

If you can't understand what you write, then I can't help you.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on January 21, 2014, 06:07:37 AM
Meeting with lovely Kirhovorad32

She got out of her car, locked it, and started walking towards me, while I was on my way out to open the door for her.
Did I ever have any doubts about my "amazone" being beautiful, they were definitely blown away at this moment.
She stopped in front of me with an inviting smile and opened her arms, showing me that she was ready to be hugged.
Returning her smile, I stretched my arms out and hugged her gently, before looking into her lovely smiling face again,
instant attraction it was……

For our first meeting, she has decided on what is probably the nicest place in town,
for us to have a cup of coffee together.
Yes, a cosy place, but an hour after noon on a weekday in the beginning of December,
there are three times as many servants as guests, (at times we were the only ones).
And maybe as a consequence of this, they tried to save on heating on this cold winter day,
making it almost uncomfortably cold for us to sit still, talking only.

When arriving at our table she pulls up her phone for answering a call,
for then to put it down on the table in front of her, a shining new flagship model smartphone.
Most of the hardworking young mothers I did meet with, had a "smartphone", but this was a first.
I did know however that she was an advanced user, with prepaid KivyStar Internet on her phone,
making it possible for her, just like myself, to always be logged on and available on Skype.

As expected from our many Skype conversations, we had an endless list of topics available,
finding great pleasure in finally being able to communicate face to face in real life.
After several hours of talking and two coffees, we are ready for leaving, to go pick up her son.
A cute six year old boy that really wants a father, and is anxiously waiting to meet with "uncle Jan".
Usually, I try to avoid getting in touch with the women's children’s to not skew our decision’s.
But her boy came visiting in front of the camera, several times when we were talking on Skype.
We had said hello many times, and as he is learning English, he wanted to practice it with me also.

He comes out, greeting me with a wide smile on his face, and off we go to the toy store.
I didn’t bring a present, as I didn’t know what was on top of his list, wanting instead to get it here.
And going to the toy store with a six year old boy will learn you a few things about his mother also.
(His mother had already got one the perfume bottles Lena advised me to buy in the tax-free this summer.)
Arriving at the store, he promptly grabs my hand and leads me to the places of some of his favorites.
He clearly knows every trick in the book, for elegantly overriding my choice for a "suitable gift"
Knowing how to soften the heart of his mother and playing out similar tricks on me for testing.
It clearly isn't the time or place for showing what kind of a father I am, so I give in to his wishes with a smile.
But remembers to make a mental note of a small minefield waiting, if we are to have a future together.

Next was to find a suitable indoor place, where I could play a little together with her boy and his new toys,
while we were having something to eat and getting to know each other better at the same time.
Kirhovorad32 guided us to an American style pizza place with large wooden tables and a lot of young people,
a perfect place for the three of us for the next few hours, till our little hero had to be put to bed.
After leaving him in the arms of his grandmother, we had the remaining hours of the day to ourselves.
Earlier in the day I had seen a nice park where we could drive in under some trees close to the waterfront,
a romantic parking place for the rest of our evening, under a clear moonlit sky with glittering stars.
On a side note,,,,, sitting together in a car like that in a romantic place,,,,,,,
brought back eternal memories from my youth, where most romances started exactly like that.

With more than two hours to drive back, it was early morning before laying down for some sleep,
only to be awakened two hours later for eating breakfast together with Lena’s parents.
After they had left for work, I went for a shower, before calling Kirhovorad32 on the phone.
She had just arrived at her workplace, very tired after staying up till long after midnight,
but happy to hear my voice again, and looking forward to our meeting at seven in the evening,

I arrived outside her apartment a little before seven and sat in the car waiting for her to come out,
this evening without her son, as we wanted all available time for getting to know each other better.
We go to the same pizza place for something to eat and stay there till they are closing at ten,
for then to return to that same romantic parking place at the waterfront.
Once again we sit there talking into the wee hours, till she is too tired to continue our conversation.
Both of us are feeling sad for having to part, knowing that it will be a long time before meeting again.

Driving back, I’m consumed by all my conflicting thoughts about this mysterious "amazone",,,
in so many ways,,,,,"to good to be true",,, for being interested in a man so much older than herself, 
giving me a strong feeling that there is a hidden dark hole somewhere in there.
But in all of our hours together, I didn’t find the slightest flickering of dishonesty in her eyes at any time.
I had been stupid however, in choosing mostly to sit in a cosy position beside her, instead of opposite her,
thereby losing the opportunity to lock onto her eyes more often in our conversation.

Next up…….. the second meeting with Dniepropetrovsk36
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: The Natural on January 21, 2014, 06:31:10 AM
Interesting read, keep it up.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on February 21, 2014, 04:44:55 PM
Sorry for the long break......
But I went to Cyprus for a week with my chosen one, and was rather busy in the last two weeks before leaving.
Will continue the trip report when time allows.

But here is a little update from last weeks meeting in Cyprus…

We were both very satisfied with our first real meeting and have decided to continue forward with more meetings,
before finally marrying at the end of the summer in Ukraine, if both of us still wants it. 

It is of course easy to have a nice time together when being on a vacation, but you are still allowed to read between the lines.

As I knew already from our writing, she is somewhat easily offended and getting upset by (for me) relatively small things.
How good I can be at understanding her behavior, and adjusting to it remains to be seen, but I will try my very best.

Yes, talking about being upset,,, she was on the edge of dropping our meeting a few days before leaving.
I have a “dead” Facebook page for being able to visit other women’s pages when they send links to their page.
On this page I have one single friend, namely my chosen one, but no activity whatsoever.
A few days before leaving, I get a request for friendship from a nice woman that I had a long letter writing period with earlier.
Of course I click yes, without thinking about it being visible also for my chosen one…….
Well, the next day I got an “icy" frosted message from my loved one, that made me truly confused,
I had long since forgotten my clicking yes on that friendship request, and understood nada about what was wrong.
Only when meeting on Cyprus did she tell me about this "snake in her garden”……..
How could I possibly do such a terrible thing, just a few days before our long awaited meeting??
Showing interest in another beautiful young woman with the same name and living only half an hour away from her.
And with a young daughter also, remembering that I had told her earlier that I would love to have a daughter in my family.
She was much too proud to ask, and was thinking she was being dumped in favor of another woman with a daughter.
Luckily, I was able to get her on the phone that same day, and capable of melting her frozen heart enough for saving the trip.

I couldn’t help laughing when she told me, thinking what an idiot I had been, which of course made her upset again.

Yes, she is jealous, as are almost all women, but no problem at all with Lena, which of course, is very important.

The other thing that has been worrying me and that we haven’t discussed in depth so far,
is her connection with the Orthodox church in her village at home.
I wouldn’t call her deeply religious, but she is strongly connected to it, and working / participating there every weekend.
She has already found the Orthodox churches in Oslo, one hour away, and wants to go there at least every Sunday.
Well, I can probably live with that also if everything else is as good as it seems so far.

Her religion has no negative influence at all for intimacy in a relationship, as she believes, it is the wife’s duty,
to make sure that her husband is satisfied with her in all respects. And she truly loves taking care of that part…….

We went for long walks almost every day, (not with her high heel shoes of course).
One day walking non stop, without eating or drinking for six hours straight, on various surfaces.
Not a word when we returned to the hotel, for going out for dinner in the evening, or the next day about anything at all.
She is in as good condition, and with similar energy level as Lena, which is important for going as a family in the mountains.
Also, she was telling me that she and her young son loves to go fishing in the rivers in the forest outside her hometown,, Great...

No smoking or alcohol at all, albeit not a fanatic, she is very focused on healthy eating and doing sports.

And also being very proficient in so many areas, from languages and computers, all the way to being able to diagnose,
and then change the fuel pump on her car by herself, out in nowhere, on a below freezing Saturday morning.
(she always carries a full toolbox along with lots of spare parts in her car)

I know this is hard to believe, when seeing her on these photos from Cyprus last week......

Click for larger images....


(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R300.jpg)



(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R301.jpg)



(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R302.jpg)



(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R303.jpg)




Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on February 22, 2014, 10:13:35 AM
Nice write-up and good looking gal.

Thanks for sharing.

Jealousy can be a real killer; so I think you need to test the waters a bit more on that variable.

Some claim that jealously is good, as it shows that the gal (or guy) cares about the other person; but I don't buy into that completely.

I think rather, that a person confident in themselves wouldn't worry about other potential 'competitors.'
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on February 22, 2014, 10:14:10 AM
Hey NK!

Spectacular looking lady.  It is nice to know that an 'old codger'  ;) can still pull such a fine specimen.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on February 22, 2014, 10:16:02 AM
I would also be interested in what locations specifically you stayed at in Cyprus.

Was it hotel or apartment?

What is cost for apartments there on weekly or monthly basis?

Did you venture into the northern (Turkish) section?

What was the visa situation for your gal?

Cyprus now requires Shengen . . . right?

etc., etc.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on February 22, 2014, 12:45:51 PM
ML & FT....
Thanks for the kind words.

Yes ML, I hate jealousy and she is aware of it, and has promised to work on improving her behavior in this area.
But there is no jealousy, when my eyes for some reason gets stuck for a few seconds on a beautiful / sexy woman when we are out somewhere.
That is (usually) allowed by many FSU women, and she will often comment on that beautiful girl herself if she find me looking.

We stayed in Paphos because I have a direct flight there, from my local airport ten minutes away.
Below is a link to the hotel we stayed in, good location at the beach between town and airport, perfectly OK for my taste, and cheap at less than € 300,- for the week.
I had booked it with only breakfast included, and was delighted to find it very good in my opinion, except for the coffee, (no coffee machine with grinder)
We actually enjoyed our long breakfast there every morning so much, that we didn't eat again till late evening at various restaurants.
Only a trip to McDonalds "cafe", for American coffee for me and Latte for her at lunch time (sometimes with a cake).

http://www.cyprotelcypriamaris.com/en/

She flew with UkraineAir from Kiev Borispol to Larnaca, and I had rental car for the week for getting back and forth there for her flight, it's 1-2 hours away.
Car was also cheap at less than €60,- for the week and nice to have when needed (every day).
 
No we didn't use time for driving to other places, just walks locally.....
We also enjoyed visiting the ongoing excavations in Paphos for admiring the remarkable mosaics they are uncovering there.
There are five houses close to each other near the harbour which have been named as The House of The House of Dionysos, The House of Theseus, The House of Aion, The House of Orpheus, and The House of Four Seasons. Each of them have some remarkably preserved mosaic flooring dating back to the 2nd 3rd and 4th Centuries A.D. The mosaics depict scenes from Greek mythology.
We both found these mosaics to be fascinating and spent several hours there. 

Visa is very easy for a Ukraine citizen, you apply for it on the Internet and receive it in the mail next day.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on March 30, 2014, 05:26:50 AM
Just a little update.....
-
My dear "Cyprus darling" ,,, smile
Appropriately named "stubborn" in capital letters, with middle name "strong"..
Yes,, her mail address actually has the word "strong" in it,,,,,  oops!
She proved to be a bit over the hill for me, so I dropped her.
And got back into the game again,,,

Have been driving "criss cross" Ukraine again in the last few days.
Being in touch with some of those I have met before, and for meeting a very cute and promising new one from Zap..
Well she wasn't as promising as I had hoped for, lying about her actual weight,
and maybe a little less of a "power lady" than I believed her to be.

At the moment I'm waiting outside the flat of my "Cyprus darling"  to meet with her again,,, smile

After editing all errors:

She came to my car before I was able to check my quick writings,,, so had to post, not to loose it.
Yes, I did spend a very nice day together with her,, and we will probably try to get back on track again,

More later,,,
as I'm returning to Ukraine again next week....
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on March 31, 2014, 09:46:21 AM
She proved to be a bit over the hill for me, so I dropped her.

At the moment I'm waiting outside the flat of my "Cyprus darling"  to meet with her again

Don't you think 'drop' should be final?

Yes . . . no . . . yes . . . no   situations are rarely productive.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: lonedrake on March 31, 2014, 10:28:04 AM
Quote
She proved to be a bit over the hill for me, so I dropped her.

 northkape,

 I just thought this line was funny. I assume you mean over the top.

As it stand a few weeks ago she was to old for you......now she is younger? :)

FWIW I have always heard and used "over the hill" as to mean to old.

Other may disagree :shock:

Have you had any issues with the travel aspect? roadblocks,interrogations,etc?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on April 01, 2014, 09:07:54 AM
Yes ML,,
there is seldom much to gain from an on / off process
But given the differences in the understanding of "concepts related to living a life", between us,
I wanted to make sure it wasn't only misunderstandings that were at the roots of our conflicts.

After coming home yesterday evening however, I have have made a final decision to drop her.
Feeling very sorry for it,,,,,
as in so many ways, she was for me, the kind of a woman, I can only dream about finding again.

Had a couple of free hours before my flight home in the evening yesterday...
So drove to meet with a very nice young mother for coffee outside Kiev,
one more Kiev32,,, will meet her again at the end of next week.

And of all strange happenings,,
a few weeks ago, I got in touch with an Oslo32 from Russia...
She is a doctor and has been here in Norway for almost two years,
divorced with a kid, looking for a husband / family father.
Beautiful, with the same figure, weight, height as Cyprus and all the others.
Lives 60 minutes away, but has only been chatting with her on the phone so far.
Plan to meet with her in the evening today, if she is free from work early enough,,, smile

Yes, of course LD, you are absolutely right,,,
Was writing in the car outside her flat while waiting,,, and short on time....
And missed it again when editing all other errors in the evening.
Over the top,,, absolutely,, smile

No problems at all with driving,,
level of traffic on roads outside cities however,
seems to be back to what it was 10-14 years ago....
And flights less than half full,,,,
Same flights a year ago was always full two to three weeks in advance
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: lonedrake on April 01, 2014, 11:04:56 AM
Quote
No problems at all with driving,,
level of traffic on roads outside cities however,
seems to be back to what it was 10-14 years ago....
And flights less than half full,,,,
Same flights a year ago was always full two to three weeks in advance

 Thank you. Sounds good to me. My flight leaves in just a couple of hours.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Slumba on April 01, 2014, 11:48:01 AM
Can I ask you NorthKape, it seems to me, that you go for the "hard charging" or what we call "Type A" personality girls. 

I mean, a girl that is accomplished at a difficult course of intellectual study, one that is logical / precise instead of literary/artistic.  Even to the point of dating a "stubborn" girl  :D

I don't see any degree holders in history, Russian or English literature, or musical talents such as pianists or violinists, etc. among your list of favorites so far, am I right about that?

Have you considered explicitly looking for a woman who embodies more of the "softer, feminine" traits which such studies usually attract?  Like say, a pediatric nurse instead of a doctor; a history or literature professor; an accomplished musician who now teaches music?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on April 02, 2014, 08:35:58 PM

I don't see any degree holders in history, Russian or English literature, or musical talents such as pianists or violinists, etc. among your list of favorites so far, am I right about that?

Have you considered explicitly looking for a woman who embodies more of the "softer, feminine" traits which such studies usually attract?  Like say, a pediatric nurse instead of a doctor; a history or literature professor; an accomplished musician who now teaches music?

Unfortunately, for some of us, such gals are usually extreme 'left wingers.'
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on April 03, 2014, 07:43:44 AM
Can I ask you NorthKape, it seems to me, that you go for the "hard charging" or what we call "Type A" personality girls. 

I mean, a girl that is accomplished at a difficult course of intellectual study, one that is logical / precise instead of literary/artistic.  Even to the point of dating a "stubborn" girl  :D

I don't see any degree holders in history, Russian or English literature, or musical talents such as pianists or violinists, etc. among your list of favorites so far, am I right about that?

Have you considered explicitly looking for a woman who embodies more of the "softer, feminine" traits which such studies usually attract?  Like say, a pediatric nurse instead of a doctor; a history or literature professor; an accomplished musician who now teaches music?

Like the very submissive Asian stereotype?
 
I guess they are not that submissive, eh Slumba?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on April 03, 2014, 09:19:50 AM
I can't really say Slumba

My selection is limited to those mothers who answers my intro letter and pass my web test.
 
Intro letters are sent to women who fit my search criteria on the following filters,
age, weight relative to height and then my personal filtering for....
those mothers having a single child close to the age of my boys and living in central Ukraine,,
preferably with higher education, good english and of course attractive, good looks.
Keeping the last three categories somewhat open for balancing, based on personality of the woman.

Since all of these women are approximately 25 years younger than me....
Those answering, are predominantly with higher education and a rational thinking mind...
They are willing to trade "youth and looks" for a stable family environment for their child.
Together with a father having a proven track record in raising children, and living with a young wife.

Also, it has to be a woman that has no desire to stay at home,,
so far however, I never met a single one that wanted a life without working...

Since learning Norwegian, and then reeducating for a career is barely possible when 32+
and washing the floors or nursing older people is not an option...
I am partial to those who have an open mind for having their own business after coming here.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Slumba on April 03, 2014, 10:57:54 AM
I can't really say Slumba

My selection is limited to those mothers who answers my intro letter and pass my web test.
 

Thanks for your answer northkape... I wish you success in your search.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on April 13, 2014, 03:07:33 AM
Onboard a flight to Ukraine again,, for another round of criss cross driving to meet with young single mothers.
Staying for a week this time, while boys have their easter vacation away from school…
They will spend the week together with Lena, to go skiing in the mountains.
Yes, Lena moved permanently to Oslo in the beginning of January.
And my predictions about how little time she would have together with the boys were spot on.
As long as we are both single she comes to stay with us from late Friday till late Sunday evening.
But boys are often on activities with me in the weekends also…
And worse it will be when I get a new wife here,,,,,,

I don’t know if my small sample of women prospects is large enough for making a prediction one way or another.
But I will report what difference in response, I have seen in the last few months.

It’s been more than a year since I started writing intro letters to single mothers with a single child.
The only difference from then to now, is gradually lowering the minimum age from 35 to 30.
Because there are much more women with young children (below 12) at 30-35 than at 35-40
On the other side, I believed that very few of these very young mothers would have any serious interest in a man 25+ years older.
This has not been the case,,, especially in the last few months.
Not only has the response been significantly higher,,
but the interest in communicating, skyping and of course meeting also, is just on another level, compared to earlier…
If I were to meet all of those seriously interested in meeting me on this trip, I would have to stay for a month instead of a week….

In my opinion a sign of the steep increase in difficulties, Ukraine is facing now and in the near future.
And also a lack of of serious men searching for a FSU woman (especially with children) on the dating sites.

Kiev/Brovary32, the self employed young mother I met with for an hour or so,
before my flight a week ago,, just feels devastated…
Prices on her raw materials has increased by 20% in the last months
And the price the customers are willing to pay for her finished goods has dropped by 20% also

Fast forward two days.................
Kiev/Brovary32 turned out to be a great woman,, as was my impression after our short meeting two weeks ago…
More later…..
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on May 14, 2014, 09:51:14 AM
Yes,,, Brovary 32, was clearly my kind of a woman,,,
We connected very well through daily messaging, after I returned home from our very short meeting.
And when meeting with her again now, there was no doubt about our affection for each other.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R410.jpg)

Most of my planned, criss cross driving, and meetings with other "lovely prospects", in central Ukraine,,,
was dropped, in favor of staying with her and her young daughter for almost a week.
She knew about my plans for meeting with several others,, and was very surprised about my change of plans.

As a young self employed business woman, taking care of her young daughter alone,,
she has a strong and independent personality, with available work being second only to her daughter in priority.

There was no way I could stay with her in her flat,,
as she and her daughter was sleeping on the double bed convertible sofa in her living room, with nowhere else to sleep.
So, I was staying at a small hotel in walking distance from her home,
a small but very nice flat, situated in a brand new apartment complex in Brovary...

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R412.jpg)

On our first day of meeting,,, I was supposed to pick her up at her flat, an hour so, before noon.
She was to call me, as soon as she finished with a job, that she had promised to deliver to a client this Saturday.
Since it was the day of my 59th birthday,, we had some plans about how to celebrate it together.....
As I never had much of a need for sleep, I was up at between six and seven,, looking forward to pick her up in a few hours.
Those few hours,, were to end up in a long day of waiting in my hotel room between calls and messages,,
telling me,,, "only an hour or two, my darling, and I will be ready"
Talking with her on the phone wasn't really very productive, as her English is far below, what I consider to be comfortable.
At 9 in the evening, she asked me to come pick her up, so I could drive her, to her client, to deliver the finished job....

I was mighty impressed,,, this was the way I had treated women all my life, and for the first time I was to receive my own medicine..
But to her credit, she made up for it, when we returned to the hotel... smile

More to come.....
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on May 16, 2014, 10:39:53 AM
It's been a couple of weeks since the last trip,,
now I'm on my way back to Kiev / Brovary again.
To spend some more time together with Brovary 32

So far, our short relationship has been almost too smooth..
Only conflicts worth mentioning, has been minor,
and usually based on her limited knowledge of English.

Her daughter is the same age as my boys, and with almost no English.
Being a girl,, she is like several years ahead of my boys.
Very mature and independent for her age,
from the little I have been able to observe so far.
In her eyes I find nothing unfriendly,, only reservation and curiosity.

There will be a lot of conflicts and drama to start with,,
if she and her mother is coming to live with me and my boys.
At her present home, she has few boundaries,
and mostly respect for her own decisions, only.
This will not roll smoothly with me, but I see no problems,,, smile..
I will capture her respect and friendship in a short time.
About my boys, she will probably keep some distance to them.
As mature and far ahead as she is, compared to them.
But they will still be good friends, almost from the start.

About to go in for landing,, at Borispol...

Flight is again between 30 - 50 % full...
With more than two thirds speaking Russian / Ukrainian
Terrible times for Ukraine...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on May 16, 2014, 11:30:36 AM
Good to hear from you again. 


At her present home, she has few boundaries,
and mostly respect for her own decisions, only.
This will not roll smoothly with me, but I see no problems,,, smile..

 :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\


I believe you have your hands full. 

I can see your future household:  you the husband jumping when the young independent Brovary 32 says "jump," and your two sons under the daughter's thumb.  Girls win!   Girls win!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on May 20, 2014, 11:53:51 AM
Yes Gator,, I will have my hands full

As always,,,, smile

I'm sitting here this morning in Brovary32's kitchen alone, with some free time for writing.
She is at work for only a few hours (I hope), and her daughter is at school.
Even though I knew it would be futile, I offered to compensate her, for the loss of todays income.
But, same as with me, it isn't always about money.........

The last two years have been among the most extreme ever, in regards to having my hands full..
Divorcing with Lena, and effectively being the single caretaker of my twin boys,,,
Partly taking care of my old mother, after my father died last summer,,,
While at the same time loosing interest in my present business,,
for then to start something entirely new again, along with the large amount of new stuff to learn.
And instead of working hard, to save my assets, for avoiding going bankrupt,,,,
I have spent an enormous amount of time, for finding a new and exiting woman in my life.

Yes, her 10 year old daughter is an open book of conflicts for me to handle, when (if) she and her mother comes here.
But she greeted me, by hugging me tightly, when I arrived at their flat, so Im off to a good start.
And Saturday evening, when we were to drive to Kiev, I collected one more feather in my hat...
She and her mother had an argument just before we were to leave, and she got seriously pissed off.
Sitting down in the sofa and turning on the TV, telling her mother she would stay at home.
I didn't want to interfere, hoping they would be able to play out the conflict between them on their own.
After a while her mother gave up, telling me, that we would go alone without her daughter.

I felt sorry for leaving her behind, and decided to make a try, even though I'm unable to communicate with her.
As she don't understand English, and my Russian is below "basic".
After a minute or so, I got her smiling again, and a few minutes later she reluctantly agreed to come along.
Looking back, I'm glad I tried, as the three of us had a great evening together, with a lot of laughter and fun.

On our way to Kiev....
I wanted to stop, for photographing one of the barricades built for protecting the roads into Kiev.
Not just any barricade, but a special one, built with a touch of humor and artistic flair.....
But, little did I think about, how my act of photographing "defense secrets" was viewed,
from the side of the young soldiers on duty this evening.
Well, one such young soldier grabbed my arm from behind, and signaled to me, to give him the camera.
As I didn't wan't to give him the camera, and he wasn't strong enough to take it by force,
he winked for another soldier to come help him.
While I kept telling them, that I'm only a tourist from Norway, Brovary32 came to the rescue.
After a little arguing from her side, they accepted confiscating the memory card only,,,
and later after a little more arguing from me also, to simply delete the photos and let us go.

As they walked away, I got the photos from inside the car when passing the barricade......

Brovary32 was shocked,,,, smile
And the episode was included in all of her following phone calls.....

Click on them,,, to make photos larger....

 (http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R423.jpg)

We spent most of the evening strolling along the "war zone" on Khreschatyk down to Maydan,
as Brovary32 and her daughter hadn't visited here since the violence started.

 (http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R424.jpg)

After having a coffee / wine, and something to eat at the end of the evening in a cosy basement restaurant,
we were greeted with the sky opening in a thunder storm of pouring rain, when starting our walk back to the car.
I told the girls to wait under cover, while I would run for the car to get it closer to were they were standing,
but they decided, to make a run for it together with me instead.
We all got soaking wet, but had some "weird dancing" trying to avoid the waterholes, making it more fun than terrible.

As with many of the women I met with, Brovary32 looked much better in real life, than her photos on the dating site.
Sunday morning the following day, was actually the only time, I saw her putting an effort into really looking her best.
We were going to attend an arrangement, where her daughter and a lot of young girls would participate,
so she probably wanted to look her very best, among all the beautiful young mothers showing up with their girls.
Here is a photo in her kitchen before leaving, being busy with what I consider to be "a woman's best friend" in her hand.

 (http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R429.jpg)

At least I consider it to be her best friend, (it is glued to the side of her head around the clock)

 (http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R428.jpg)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Lily on May 20, 2014, 12:19:14 PM
What a beauty! There is something romantic in her looks.
 
Yes we do put some efforts in looking our best!
 
Actually, I hate cellphone, and use it only when there is no alternative...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 20, 2014, 05:42:59 PM
...Actually, I hate cellphone, and use it only when there is no alternative...

Lily, I think that makes you unique amongst FSU women!  :o
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on June 09, 2014, 03:59:57 AM
Thanks Lily,,
Yes, i do agree with you, "What a beauty",, smile

A then a little update from the far away north....

Me and Brovary32 are doing well, we have met three times in the last two months,
chatting around the clock, and Skype a couple of times a week.
Now we are making plans for marrying in September, but first we will spend the rest of the summer together.

When school ends at the end of next week, I'm driving all the way from here again, together with my boys,
in the same car that I used in Ukraine last summer, but this time I plan to leave it there till after we are married.
(if everything works out as planned)

We will go on a weeks vacation together in the Carpathian mountains with our kids, her daughter and my boys.
For then to return to Kiev, to meet with Lena and her parents, as boys will stay all summer in Ukraine,
partly with me and Brovary32, partly with Lena and most of the time with their grandparents (Lena's parents).

Lena and Brovary32 are both exited to meet, as they want / understand the need, for a friendship between them.
After leaving boys with Lena and her parents, we will drop off Brovary32's young daughter at her parents,
in the south east of Ukraine, before going for a week or two alone to the Black Sea, probably Odessa.
Then I will have to catch a flight back home for a week or so before returning to Kiev.
If everything in our relationship is still "floating" at the end of the summer, Brovary32 will go with me to Norway,
before we are returning to marry at Zags Brovary in September.
But before then, she needs a drivers license and much better English, her weakest point so far in our relationship. 

A long and twisting road ahead, most certainly not without bumps, but prepared I am,,,, always.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on July 12, 2014, 04:27:54 PM
Truly,, it has been a great summer so far.
Tanya (Brovary32) and her daughter loved my boys, and my boys loved Tanya and her daughter, all 3 kids are the same age.
We are going again for one more, all family trip to Zatoka, south of Odessa at the end of this month.
All kids are with their grandparents now, and I'm on a two week trip back home for doing some work.
Same with Tanya, she is working her ass off in Brovary while I'm at home. 
She met with Lena and Lena's parents a week ago, all smooth sailing, they will be good friends.
Tanya had her first actual driving lessons in a car today, and tries to learn more English through headphones while working.
Yes, she really needs a drivers license, in addition to as much driving experience as possible, and much better English.
This and so many other things to arrange before we marry and go to Norway in September / October.
She feels a little crazy, for not visiting Norway before we marry, but not so easy when we both have kids in school.

But after all,, life is just wonderful, as always,,,,
Me and Tanya are doing very well together, no conflicts or arguments so far.
But of course, her lack of good English and my basic Russian, makes for some frustrating situations, every now and then.

In retrospect, when looking back at 18 months of dating young and beautiful Ukraine mothers, it has been such a great experience.
I feel extremely fortunate, for having the opportunity to rekindle romantic dating again, and to have met with so many great women.
To tell the truth, I'm sure I could have married, and had a good life together with several of those women I spent time together with.
-
Tanyas daughter together with my boys, Tanya walking behind with the phone glued to her ear as usual.
(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R435.jpg)

-
Tanya and her young daughter when visiting the abandoned Yanukovych residence a couple of weeks ago.
(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R436.jpg)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: calmissile on July 12, 2014, 04:48:47 PM
Northkape,

It sounds like you two really have your act together.  I am very happy for you both and your families.

Based on what you have told us, I think you will have a real winner for a wife.  I would not worry in advance of landmines and problems before they appear.  It appears you have already learned that many FSUW get over being upset in very short order.  Usually within 24 hours.  Based up her personality you might also discover that you occasionally need to put your foot down on some issue and her response will surprise you.  In my case, I was expecting WWIII and instead her response was "OK, you are the husband".  End of story, and no more discussion.

Good luck and I hope your future continues on it's current path.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Maxx2 on July 12, 2014, 04:57:16 PM
Actually, I hate cellphone, and use it only when there is no alternative...


I am the same way. I like not being tied to a phone. To drive somewhere and not be bothered.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Maxx2 on July 12, 2014, 04:59:11 PM
What a beauty! There is something romantic in her looks.



I agree. You are a lucky man northkape.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on July 12, 2014, 10:12:20 PM
Looking good NK...I'm glad things have been working out well for you and the young lady.


Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 13, 2014, 10:19:49 AM
Hi NK, glad things are going so well as you describe them.

I can't quite understand one aspect however.

This is the peachy relationship between ex wife and soon to be wife.

Sure, sure I understand that it is best for the children, etc., if the new and old spouses 'get along,' so I am sure that everyone is trying.

However, let's get down to being real also.

The ex wife has a multitude of complaints about you.

No, it's wasn't all just about her wanting to spend more time on a  career than you wanted her to spend.

She really had some serious complaints about you; just as you did about her.

So 'wife to be' really wants to know what those complaints were.

Ex wife will sugar coat those complaints for awhile when talking to 'wife to be,' but not for long, if they continue to interact.

The common idea that 'we just grew apart,' is valid in some cases, but generally only for those marriages greater than 20 - 30 years or so when the kids are gone, etc.

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: JohnDearGreen on July 13, 2014, 11:54:55 AM
NK,


Both you and ML seem to have an inordinate amount of free time to invest in this venture.  Do you have any recommendations for the average-Joe-worker with 3 or 4 weeks vacation each year?   


Do you feel like your lady selections and your processs got better tuned-in as time goes on and the number of ladies met increases?   As for myself, 2 or 3 ladies I met on my 1st trip were probably better than almost all the others that I met later.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 13, 2014, 12:19:22 PM
  Do you have any recommendations for the average-Joe-worker with 3 or 4 weeks vacation each year?

As I have recently posted, I don't recommend anyone do this.

And strongly recommend against for someone who has limited vacation time.

I only got started thinking about FSU women after I had gone several times there to several cities on business . . . without paying out any of my own money or spending any of my own vacation time (which I really don't have as I am self-employed independent consultant).

And even then, I did  it mainly for the purpose of being able to hook up with highly educated, highly cultured, relatively tall, pretty, slender women who were considerably younger than myself so they would still have the high sex drive prevalent in women 35 - 50.

I could and can obtain the first four listed criteria in USA, but not the last two.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 13, 2014, 05:42:11 PM
NK,


Both you and ML seem to have an inordinate amount of free time to invest in this venture.  Do you have any recommendations for the average-Joe-worker with 3 or 4 weeks vacation each year?   

Most of them seem to be recommending "don't do it" as Choice No. 1!

Do you feel like your lady selections and your processs got better tuned-in as time goes on and the number of ladies met increases?   As for myself, 2 or 3 ladies I met on my 1st trip were probably better than almost all the others that I met later.

So, is your wife one of those "2 or 3" from the first trip?  Or is she the exception in your "almost?"

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: JohnDearGreen on July 13, 2014, 06:04:58 PM
Most of them seem to be recommending "don't do it" as Choice No. 1!
So, is your wife one of those "2 or 3" from the first trip?  Or is she the exception in your "almost?"
Not sure who "them" is.  I would estimate 98% of the ladies would say "do it".  Most would prefer a younger working professional to a age 65 retired person with a lot of time on his hands.  I will pass on your 2nd question.  Difficult to
forget old flames.  Like getting stuck at the top of the Gorky Park ferris wheel with one of them.  My lady interpreter
friend shouts up at us "How about a kiss?".  [I trained her well]
(http://www.bruneions.com/img/media/2-park-gorky3.jpg)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: notforone on July 22, 2014, 02:01:54 PM
I stumbled across this amazing thread. I am a new member, this is my first post. I am not new to the RUW world.

Northkape: high kudos for being a secure guy and sharing such useful information. High kudos also for being patient enough to answer to the few trolls who add nothing more than noise to this thread and make it difficult for others to find useful information. Some of the contributions are useful but unfortunately the attacks from anonymous trolls are not. Currently, I am on page 19 of your amazing stories.

Northkape: I perfectly understand your story as my story is in some ways similar to yours (and even currently developing in a somewhat similar manner). I am twelve years younger than you (give or take from what I can tell). I also met a few Ukrainian girls online in the early part of the last decade and went over for visits. All girls were 18-21 year old. I ended up marrying a hot 19-year old college student. She left her college to move to the states with me. She was a smart girl like your Lena and spoke English well. We divorced seven years later. She was not a passport seeker or a gold digger. She got a lot of help from me to get herself re-educated in a different field (she returned all that money later). After she was re-educated, she found a job. Less than a year later, she filed for a divorce.  Sounds similar to your story, but with no kids. After the divorce was completed, I asked her when she decided she wanted out and she answered at about the mid-point of our marriage. She could have filed earlier since the conditions on her permanent residence had been removed. However, she simply wanted to finish her degree and find a job first (the last part is my speculation). She had her many complaints about the marriage as I had mine. She has done very well professionally and did not re-marry since then.

I believe many FSU women out there seeking marriage to a western man are honestly seeking for a lifetime partner. I also think that these are smart women and can be more selfish that you'd think at first. They have a core game in mind (marrying someone for life) and they also have a fall-on backup plan (becoming independent). Another aspect of it, to which I believe Northkape also alluded, is that you cannot force a smart, independent woman to become a stay-at-home mom. She will get what she really desires at some point and you will be at the losing end of the deal. And, very importantly, a young woman will likely become westernized at some point. At first, my ex developed friendships with other RUW's married to Americans (all of whom by the way divorced sooner or later). After she went back to college in the states, she started developing friendships with local women and this is when the changes began. By the time she got her first full-time job, the changeover was complete. If I were not married to her, I would not be able to tell whether she was a Ukrainian woman except for the slight accent in her voice. So, this is what I would expect going into this as a realistic base case scenario: A number of years. How many? It depends.

By the way, I recently came back from Ukraine, first trip since the divorce, interesting trip, had a lot of fun, but at the end it didn't work out as I hoped. I will go back soon and will be better prepared this time. I am going back to Ukraine for some of the same reasons Northkape does. Where I live, I can marry a pretty, educated, independent woman up to 6 maybe 8 years younger. Women 15-20 years younger will simply not marry me. But it is also the adventure that excites me. I have time and flexibility and can do it. There is something about these women that I find irresistible.

Impatiently waiting to hear your newest trip report!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Boethius on July 23, 2014, 01:03:24 AM
Quote
a young woman will likely become westernized at some point. At first, my ex developed friendships with other RUW's married to Americans (all of whom by the way divorced sooner or later). After she went back to college in the states, she started developing friendships with local women and this is when the changes began. By the time she got her first full-time job, the changeover was complete.

A common refrain here; she became westernized, or was influenced by other FSUW, and she changed.  People generally are who they are.  Their core personalities don't change much over time, but they do grow.   Single young women, and particularly teens, generally don't dream of marrying men their fathers' ages, or, sometimes, older.  Most age disparate WM/FSUW matches are not love matches.  So, it is not a surprise that as a young woman's opportunities and choices expand, the corresponding expansion in what she can now achieve on her own, and what she can find in a mate, have an effect on her as well.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on July 23, 2014, 05:18:18 AM
A common refrain here; she became westernized, or was influenced by other FSUW, and she changed.  People generally are who they are.  Their core personalities don't change much over time, but they do grow.   Single young women, and particularly teens, generally don't dream of marrying men their fathers' ages, or, sometimes, older.  Most age disparate WM/FSUW matches are not love matches.  So, it is not a surprise that as a young woman's opportunities and choices expand, the corresponding expansion in what she can now achieve on her own, and what she can find in a mate, have an effect on her as well.

Yup. In essence, those 18-24 year old women eventually grow up. So, rather than work on the marriage to the woman one was supposedly in love with, time to turn her out and go find another hot body I can impress my friends with. This is so much easier than finding the actual life partner to begin with  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: pitbull on July 23, 2014, 05:34:27 AM
Yup. In essence, those 18-24 year old women eventually grow up. So, rather than work on the marriage to the woman one was supposedly in love with, time to turn her out and go find another hot body I can impress my friends with. This is so much easier than finding the actual life partner to begin with  :rolleyes:


I think as long as the old dude understands the deal, like "notforene" (A number of years. How many? It depends.), and sticks to his part of the deal, like pay for her education and help her establish herself in the new country, it can be an okay arrangement.
[/size]
[/size]The risk is all on the girl, particularly if she 1) sticks to such a marriage for longer than necessary 2) doesn't use the marriage time to better and establish herself
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Faux Pas on July 23, 2014, 05:54:17 AM

I think as long as the old dude understands the deal, like "notforene" (A number of years. How many? It depends.), and sticks to his part of the deal, like pay for her education and help her establish herself in the new country, it can be an okay arrangement.
[/size]
[/size]The risk is all on the girl, particularly if she 1) sticks to such a marriage for longer than necessary 2) doesn't use the marriage time to better and establish herself

I have no problem with two grown adults having/agreeing to such an arrangement. But, let's call it what it is   ;D 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on July 23, 2014, 06:18:22 AM
Yup. In essence, those 18-24 year old women eventually grow up. So, rather than work on the marriage to the woman one was supposedly in love with, time to turn her out and go find another hot body I can impress my friends with. This is so much easier than finding the actual life partner to begin with  :rolleyes:


I question the 'impress the friends' part of this.  My wife was fairly young when she arrived 5 years ago '23'.  I don't know that it impressed anybody though, and I, if anything got tired of 'age gap' questions.  She turns 29 in less than a month but hasn't aged as much as I have so I'm still clearly quite a bit older.    I would think that most men would NOT marry a young woman IN ORDER TO IMPRESS FRIENDS, but rather because they just simply like younger women for other reasons.  If I were to ever marry a young woman with a great body again, (No danger of that right now), I think I would be somewhat embarrassed about the age gap and not really want 'show her off' to friends.



I think as long as the old dude understands the deal, like "notforene" (A number of years. How many? It depends.), and sticks to his part of the deal, like pay for her education and help her establish herself in the new country, it can be an okay arrangement.

The risk is all on the girl, particularly if she 1) sticks to such a marriage for longer than necessary 2) doesn't use the marriage time to better and establish herself


Yes in some situations I guess this is the best a guy can hope for, and actually all he may want.  If it turns into a ....cough cough.. win/win, then no harm done.






Fathertime!     
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Turboguy on July 23, 2014, 07:06:54 AM
I have to agree with Fathertime about impressing friends.  I think in a few cases some of the motivation for a younger, beautiful wife may be to impress friends.  The type of person who feels he must drive a Mercedes that he can't quite afford and live in a house he can't quite afford is probably the type that wan'ts an impressive woman on his arm.  For me I drive a beat up pickup with 162,000 miles on it and live in a house that is 114 years old and quite average or less.


I think an age gap creates some controversy in peoples minds as to the motivations of each and someone wanting to impress his friends would be smarter to seek out a strikingly beautiful woman closer to his age.  When it comes to impressing friends couples with age gaps would seem more likely to have separate friends and that could apply even more with a marriage to a woman from another country.  In my case I am fine with the age gap and would be fine if we didn't have one.  It is a plus that she is very attractive but that too wasn't that much of a concern.  What attracted me was the inner qualities and I have never been disappointed in those as time has progressed. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on July 23, 2014, 09:40:19 AM
Sorry for replying so late,, but busy weeks behind me,,,
And Norwegian airlines cancelled my flight to Kiev the day after Malaysian flight was "shot down"
So arriving here in Kiev a day later,,

Thanks to all of you for the nice comments,,,,

Doug,,,
You are right,, she appears to be, a "real winner" as a wife.
For me a very comfortable woman to be around and together with, and apparently for her friends also.
Judging by their facial expressions, all of those we have met with seems to like her very much.
One of her lifelong friends, married in Sweden, told me very clearly that I could hardly find a nicer woman to marry.

Maxx,,,
Lucky is the right word, it feels just great to have one more shot at an adventurous romantic endeavor, this late in life.
And on top of it, with such a nice woman,,, smile...

FT,,,
It's looking good, and getting even better, the more time I spend with her.

ML,,,
Not much in the way of "skeletons in the cabinet", for me to be afraid of.
I can't imagine Lena exaggerating any negatives about my personality, as it would only backfire on herself in the end.
However friendly she and Tanya might become, I think she will leave it to Tanya, to make her own decision about me.

John,,,
In my opinion, it's a good thing to physically meet with a moderate selection of women to check for level of mutual attraction.
These meetings should be carefully picked from a much larger selection of women that met your initial search criteria,
and that has proven themselves to be genuinely interested in you, through communication in writing and Skype.
Personally, I used my own "monitored website" in addition, to totally eliminate wasting time on non-serious women.

notf,,,
Yes,, "irresistible" is the alluring magic, that made me want to embark, once again on a journey in these waters.
On the previous page I wrote the following:

And of all strange happenings,,
a few weeks ago, I got in touch with an Oslo32 from Russia...
She is a doctor and has been here in Norway for almost two years,
divorced with a kid, looking for a husband / family father.
Beautiful, with the same figure, weight, height as Cyprus and all the others.
Lives 60 minutes away, but has only been chatting with her on the phone so far.
Plan to meet with her in the evening today, if she is free from work early enough,,, smile


Oslo32 has a young boy, a Phd in medicine, and is at the start of a great career with a permanent residence permit already.
She is speaking good Norwegian, and could move in to live together with me and my boys with no need to marry first.
I went on several dates with her, and yes, she was very attractive and we both had a instant like for each other.
Lena considered me to be almost an idiot for finally dropping her in favor of Tanya.
But Tanya and the adventure in Ukraine had this "irresistible" alluring magic to it,,,
unfortunately I didn't feel the same for Oslo32.

Bo,,,
Generally, I would have to agree with you.

FP,,,
Me and Lena's intentions were honestly good, and yes we might have been able to save our marriage.
But looking back at it now, I'm not sure it would have been a good idea after all.

pb,,,
Agree, that for some women it might turn out good either way.
If they find life comfortable with the man they married, and at least had some physical attraction to, they stay.
On the other hand they are free to leave for something better if they have played out their cards correctly.

FT / Turbo
Absolutely agree about the "impress friends" part.
My friends, mostly thinks I'm nuts for what I'm doing.

At the moment, I'm in Brovary with Tanya.
In the coming weekend, me, Tanya and her dog, will drive to Dnieprodzherzhinsk to pick up my boys and their Guinea pigs at Lena's parents,
and then drive to Melitopol to pick up Tanya's daughter and her rabbit, at Tanya's parents.
With the car filled with us and animals, we will drive to Zatoka south of Odessa for a weeks family vacation on the beach.
Zatoka is a cosy small place, having a long nice beach with hotels directly on the sea front, really a great place for kids.
Me and Tanya drove there a couple of weeks ago to check it out, see photo:

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R438.jpg)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 23, 2014, 11:39:48 AM
I have to agree with Fathertime about impressing friends.  I think in a few cases some of the motivation for a younger, beautiful wife may be to impress friends.  The type of person who feels he must drive a Mercedes that he can't quite afford and live in a house he can't quite afford is probably the type that wan'ts an impressive woman on his arm.  For me I drive a beat up pickup with 162,000 miles on it and live in a house that is 114 years old and quite average or less.


Oh . . . bla, bla, bla.

We don't have to be dishonest here.

Of course we guys want to impress friends.

A big satisfaction for me is knowing how jealous other guys are.
I know they are saying . . . how the he!! did he get her; and why can't I have someone like her.  I know because the truthful ones tell me.

And the honest gal's know what the plan is also.

The honest gals will say:  Everything we do (in terms of appearance) is for men.

Come on men . . . man up here.  A feminine side may be OK, but let's don't overdo it.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on July 23, 2014, 12:08:40 PM
I am with Turbo.   Everyone is different.  I have never been a showoff.  I try to understate my accomplishments, my signs of success.  E. g., I drive a 17-yo SUV, but that is fine because I drive only 3-4k per year because the golf course is next door.  My wife refuses to ride in my truck.     


Confession:  I will admit that in a large social gathering, I enjoy seeing my woman all dressed up, looking fabulous.  I marvel at her glamour, not the reactions of others.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 23, 2014, 01:23:09 PM
  I marvel at her glamour, not the reactions of others.

Oh, more bla, bla, bla.

Let's get honest fellas.  Yes, you marvel . . . but you also delight.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Turboguy on July 23, 2014, 06:57:59 PM
Oh . . . bla, bla, bla.

We don't have to be dishonest here.

Of course we guys want to impress friends.

A big satisfaction for me is knowing how jealous other guys are.

There wasn't a dishonest word in my post ML.  I couldn't care less what my friends think.  My wife never ceases to amaze and impress me and that is all I care about but I look at her beauty as just a plus.
I always thought it was likely that someone who "needs" to impress others with the car in their driveway, their house, or the beauty queen on their arm must suffer from low self esteem. 

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 23, 2014, 08:30:13 PM

I always thought it was likely that someone who "needs" to impress others with the car in their driveway, their house, or the beauty queen on their arm must suffer from low self esteem.

More bla, bla, bla.

This is the same story that guys/gals spew out all the time, when they want to put someone down.

It's like throwing out the 'race card.'  Very simplistic and cheap shot.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Turboguy on July 24, 2014, 04:17:43 AM
We are all very different ML.  I have just never felt a need to make my friends jealous.  To me that seems to be something I would rather avoid.  I am not a psychiatrist.  There are lots of rich people who want to enjoy the trappings of their wealth.  There are others such as H L Hunt who drove an old beat up pickup and or Warren Buffet who still lives in the family home that he has had since before he was so rich.  I doubt that the super rich that ride around in a chauffeur drive limo have low self esteem.
In that respect Gator and I sound a lot alike.  My wife refuses to ride in my pickup as well. Making my friends jealous is the last thing on my mind.  I can recall an RWD friend who hasn't posted here in years telling me that he always flew first class and if he had to fly coach he did not feel good about himself.  That also strikes me as low self esteem, but it is not my field of expertise (if I have one).  Heck, for the right price I would fly in the cargo hold.  I am sure if needing to make friends jealous is a sign of low self esteem that it is not a universal thing and you are probably the exception.   It wasn't my intention to put you down and I am sorry if you took it that way.





Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 24, 2014, 05:48:39 AM
I have just never felt a need to make my friends jealous. 
. . . . . .
I am sure if needing to make friends jealous . . .

Here are my original words:

"Of course we guys want to impress friends.  A big satisfaction for me is knowing how jealous other guys are.
I know they are saying . . . how the he!! did he get her; and why can't I have someone like her.  I know because the truthful ones tell me."

I was simply telling the truth and admitting what we fellas are really like.

But many (most) guys know that is not a PC thing to admit openly.

So how to put a guy down, and keep to a righteous path? 

Oh . . . let's just change the word slightly to turn something that is a simple statement involving "want" into a psychological problem regarding "need."

I also have as one vehicle a 1999 Nissan truck that has large dents in several places and has a severely twisted rear bumper.  Tried to pull a stump out.  Ochka doesn't really enjoy riding in it either; but she says it's because she thinks it's unsafe; which is not true.  She is just equating the dents with danger.

And the story about Warren is not true.  Yes, he still has the original house . . . but that is not where he lives most of the time.
He keeps the old house and eats at McDonalds because he knows it will bring MORE attention and news coverage and talk (even as he doesn't hear us) from gossipers like us.

The guys who throw paint randomly on a canvas continually get a big kick out of knowing that millions of people are trying to determine a meaning from it.

HL Hunt drove the old pickup truck simply because he knew it would actually get him MORE attention and news coverage.

Let's think a little here.

Those who LIKE to frequently tell how they drive old pickup trucks, fly cheapest possible, proclaim they couldn't care less about X, Y, Z, etc., are possibly NEEDING to draw some attention and admiration to themselves.   8)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Turboguy on July 24, 2014, 07:10:31 AM
Here are my original words:

"Of course we guys want to impress friends.  A big satisfaction for me is knowing how jealous other guys are.



I guess I must have a psychological problem then, probably worse than low self esteem.  I do not have a "want" to impress my friends.  Perhaps it goes back to ages ago in my first marriage.  One of my better friends and golf buddies was my neighbor across the street.  When Andy or I got a new car we would always take each other for a ride and admire the new wheels.  Even his new Fiat that he spent months deciding it was the best car for him.  Later as we would drive to the golf course I would have to ask if it was ok to put the window down because it often would not go back up and you couldn't lean back on the seat or it would collapse.  Well after having a few typical cars over the years one time I bought one that could be considered a luxury car.  He never acknowledged it or commented about it.  It made him jealous and that was a bad thing.  I have never looked at making my friends jealous as a good thing.


Ah, so I am not the only one playing amateur psychologist.  You seem to be doing a good job of analyzing the motives of Hunt and Buffet.   I like to fly the cheapest way because I am a cheapskate not that I need to brag about it to impress anyone.  My pickup is just a little beat up.  It isn't that old.  I drive 50,000-60,000 miles a year and lots of it cross country where reliability is important to me.  It is a 2010 but does have 162,000 miles on it.  I have put over 400,000 miles on some of my pickups.  I didn't even mention the fact that we live in a house I bought for $ 3,900.00 (that is including taxes and transfer fees).  As I said, I am a cheapskate.  My wife is a bigger cheapskate.  Perhaps that is a bit of why we get along so well.  We have whole house air and in the nearly 7 years my wife has been her she was willing to turn it on once. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 24, 2014, 09:36:00 AM

I guess I must have a psychological problem then, probably worse than low self esteem.  I do not have a "want" to impress my friends. 

I like to fly the cheapest way because I am a cheapskate not that I need to brag about it to impress anyone.   

Yes, you do have a psyc problem.  You are in denial about not wanting to impress friends; and you are in denial about being cheap to impress friends.

A series of trips to a psyc will not eliminate these denials, but it will help the psyc guy or gal.   And he/she can give you some tips about how to deny this denial.

Ah, so I am not the only one playing amateur psychologist.  You seem to be doing a good job of analyzing the motives of Hunt and Buffet.   

Well yes, I can be just as much a dick head as anyone.

But I am not in denial about it.   8)

And speaking of A/C . . . the blower fan on my unit has been making  a little noise for awhile, and now has turned to a 'whump, whump' which I am pretty sure is an indication of a big imbalance (maybe bearings going out) which is going to end it's operation pretty shortly.

Anyway, best to you and your family Ray.
At least we have provided a little different diversion here!!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on July 24, 2014, 11:09:28 AM

I would think that most men would NOT marry a young woman IN ORDER TO IMPRESS FRIENDS, but rather because they just simply like younger women for other reasons.

Fathertime!     


Bullshevik!!


Now I know you live in a parallel universe. OR are trying to justify marrying someone who could be your daughter's age.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on July 24, 2014, 11:17:08 AM
I am with Turbo.   Everyone is different. I have never been a showoff. I try to understate my accomplishments, my signs of success.  E. g., I drive a 17-yo SUV, but that is fine because I drive only 3-4k per year because the golf course is next door.  My wife refuses to ride in my truck.     


Confession:  I will admit that in a large social gathering, I enjoy seeing my woman all dressed up, looking fabulous.  I marvel at her glamour, not the reactions of others.


LMFAO


Seriously??


Weren't you on record here boasting about comparing "Johnsons" with I/O and being proud of your "achievement?"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3VphK9AMk


C'mon, seriously?


 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on July 24, 2014, 11:20:59 AM

Bullshevik!!


Now I know you live in a parallel universe. OR are trying to justify marrying someone who could be your daughter's age.
Ot is silly for you to go chasing a guy around on other theads and speak of his wife. It sounds like u are condemning guys who marry younger women because they like em. That is nice you married a woman your own age. Who cares?

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Muzh on July 24, 2014, 11:25:36 AM
Ot is silly for you to go chasing a guy around on other theads and speak of his wife. It sounds like u are condemning guys who marry younger women because they like em. That is nice you married a woman your own age. Who cares?

Fathertime!


Get a hold of your self-adulating self.


I'm not talking ABOUT your wife at all. I'm referring to your actions. Nothing else.


As far as I'm concerned your wife is an angel and an innocent by-stander.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on July 24, 2014, 11:37:59 AM

Get a hold of your self-adulating self.


I'm not talking ABOUT your wife at all. I'm referring to your actions. Nothing else.


As far as I'm concerned your wife is an angel and an innocent by-stander.
Of course she is. What action are you grumbling about. My wife is 17.5 years younger than me and gorgeous (to me) and a very good mother.What difference does it make if somebody else is envious or not? I see no benefit either way.

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on July 24, 2014, 02:01:59 PM


Weren't you on record here boasting about comparing "Johnsons" with I/O and being proud of your "achievement?"



I don't recall that.  Perhaps you can refresh my memory.  If so, I can only assume that it was most likely an attempt at humor that went over (or under) your head. 

Perhaps it was ML.  Based on his post above, his "unit" sounds very impressive as it comes equipped with a blower fan. Wow!!!


Quote
     . . . the blower fan on my unit has been making  a little noise for awhile, and now has turned to a 'whump, whump'       

Back to the essence of your post.  My self-confidence is high.  Also, incredulous as it may sound to you my long life has always been accompanied by beautiful women - it would have become tedious by now if I sought admiration from bystanders. 

Maybe there is some truth in what you and ML imply.  I collect antiques, dislike sleek modern, have worn out oriental carpets as early examples of village weavings, relish patina, not upset by dirt and dust, etc ...  My ex-wife, who has a great sense of humor, said I like everything looking old...except my women. 

Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Turboguy on July 24, 2014, 02:24:13 PM

  I collect antiques, dislike sleek modern,
I sort of like sleek and modern and dislike antiques but my wife collects antiques.  She only has one antique in her collection,  Me. 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on July 24, 2014, 02:37:36 PM
Don't mean to interrupt the discussion but I suppose I can understand when fellas try and convince each other that the reasons why we chase tails of much younger women from the FSU is not necessarily to a) impress friends and/or b) use the marriage as a symbol of something they believe they deserve eg trophy wife; but instead because these gals are *cultured*, *sophisticated*, *exotic* and all that good stuff. Age really is not even a consideration when these guys went looking for their respective wives.

So, in the end, if age disparity was not a consideration, then Baba wants to know why no one ever wrote to her considering she's a bit younger than most of our members here.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag162/matteo251/winking_babushka_zps34daa935.jpg) (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/matteo251/media/winking_babushka_zps34daa935.jpg.html)
Of course age doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on July 24, 2014, 02:56:23 PM

So, in the end, if age disparity was not a consideration, then Baba wants to know why no one ever wrote to her considering she's a bit younger than most of our members here.

I wrote to her.  I dismissed her because 1) she liked cats, 2) she seemed preoccupied with sex, 3) she behaved as if she were entitled, and 4) she wanted money for her sick mother

Turbo and I never said we were not enthralled by younger women.  To the contrary, I admit to being beguiled.  I also admit that the number of pretty faces prompted me to take the first trip,  yet it was NOT to bring one back to showoff to my friends. 

 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: ML on July 24, 2014, 03:18:50 PM
  I also admit that the number of pretty faces prompted me to take the first trip,  yet it was NOT to bring one back to showoff to my friends.

Still in denial.  Check with Turbo, he has been trying to find a therapist to talk about this syndrome.

And recall the event wherein the Frenchman was to be executed at 0600 next morning.

His captors told they would bring in the most beautiful woman available to have sex with him.

He said:  "Why? . . . I wouldn't be able to later tell my friends about her!"
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: GQBlues on July 24, 2014, 03:26:31 PM
...He said:  "Why? . . . I wouldn't be able to later tell my friends about her!"

That's like getting stuck in a deserted island with just a horny Adriana Lima to keep you company and no one to tell...
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on July 24, 2014, 04:30:49 PM


He said:  "Why? . . . I wouldn't be able to later tell my friends about her!"

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: BillyB on July 24, 2014, 06:21:25 PM
I drive a beat up pickup with 162,000 miles on it and live in a house that is 114 years old and quite average or less.



I drive a 17-yo SUV, but that is fine because I drive only 3-4k per year because the golf course is next door.  My wife refuses to ride in my truck.     




We all know you're both loaded $ and are fine examples of what to do. I just bought a 2004 Chevy Silverado with 222,000 miles on it. I'll be catching up to you guys soon and I'm not talking age here.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Turboguy on July 24, 2014, 07:50:48 PM


We all know you're both loaded
I have sometimes had the feeling that some of the members here get loaded once in a while as well.



Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Drew on July 31, 2014, 08:42:02 PM
A very interesting story but I got lost trying to keep track of where the original poster is in this persuit.  Some good looking women he is attracting tho.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on August 01, 2014, 08:57:59 AM
Well,,,, for anyone wondering,,,, smile
At the moment , I'm at Zatoka Beach south of Odessa together with my "wife to be" Tanya
(+ my twin boys and her daughter)

Lovely weather all week with sunny clear sky, 25C / 77F in water and 33C / 91F in air every day.
Tanya being as nice a woman as you can possibly find, almost always happy and smiling.

Such great days together for all of our family, kids happy and playing very well together.
And of course, for me and Tanya being at the beginning of a new and exciting love affair,,,,
we have the wonderful "rabbit period" that most couples goes through in the first 1-2 years of a new relationship.......

Updates to follow

My lovely Tanya smiling at me,,,

 (http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R440.jpg)

Tanya worries about my boys all the time,, here giving sunglasses to Mikael

 (http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R445.jpg)



 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Gator on August 01, 2014, 11:11:01 AM
Northkape,

Thanks for the update.  Your relationship is progressing well.  Congratulations for becoming engaged.  When does Tanya and her daughter move to Norway?

And of course, for me and Tanya being at the beginning of a new and exciting love affair,,,,
we have the wonderful "rabbit period" that most couples goes through in the first 1-2 years of a new relationship.......

Evidently something lost in  translation as I am having a thought along the lines of one of ML's favorite subjects.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Drew on August 01, 2014, 12:17:32 PM
I'm still lost.  Is that last pic of female helping boy with sunglasses the mother or the daughter?
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on August 01, 2014, 02:32:22 PM
No it is the grandmother of the son.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 01, 2014, 09:59:51 PM
I'm still lost.  Is that last pic of female helping boy with sunglasses the mother or the daughter?

It's the mother (Northkape's fiancée).  She's 32 years old (unless she's had a birthday since he started seeing her).

Just a side note for all the Americans on here - from the many thousands of comments about overweight women, I'm guessing that the lady in blue is over from the USA on vacation!  :D
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on August 02, 2014, 08:01:11 AM
Nice photos NK,


Congrats on moving forward with your relationship.  It sounds like life is good.  I'm surprised the water is so warm there.  Here in Southern California the water rarely gets to even 70 and is usually in the mid 60's...but we all still charge right in the waves.


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: notforone on August 03, 2014, 09:28:26 AM
Northkape: Great! She's a beaut! And a notch above all other pictures that you posted including your ex.

General question: I was married to UA seven years, four plus years divorced, no kids. Do I mention the previous marriage to the new UA's and at what point (intro letter/before first meeting/during first meeting/later)? I can see how getting his ex involved is a win-win for both NK and his ex given the kids. Not an option or something I would like to do by any means in my case.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on August 05, 2014, 06:47:20 AM
It's early morning sunrise after staying overnight at Tanya's parents in Melitopol, on our way back to Kiev / Brovary.
Arrived here after midnight, several hours late, from maneuvering along pothole roads in a blistering thunderstorm of rain and lightning.
Ending a week, that is forever to be, one of the highlights of my "memoirs",, that's how great our past week at Zatoka beach was for all of us.
Yes, feels a little weird to be older than her parents, but we are getting along with smiles and friendly eyes, so no worries.

Gator,,,
We plan to marry at Zags in the first week of October, if we are able to get everything ready for it.
My boys have a weeks vacation at school then, so I can leave them with Lena while I'm away.
Exactly how to proceed from there, is not clear at the moment, as there are a lot of challenges related to it.
I want to have them both with us in Norway as soon as possible, so I will find a way to do it.

Without reading through all of ML's fascination with "rabbit activities", I would guess your thoughts are correctly guided,,, smile

Akiwi,,,
No need to have "overweight" females coming here from USA.
In all my years of traveling in Ukraine, I never saw such an amount of grossly fat persons, as all those present at Zatoka beach.
This is a very nice place for families, and maybe it's a popular beach for fat people from the "over eating / drinking" middle class also.
No need to be ashamed of being fat in a swimsuit when you are one of a large group, children through all ages an upwards, men and women.
A video from where we were staying at the beach, would have been appropriate as intro for the annual convention of obese people in the USA.
I could barely believe I was in Ukraine, it was almost shocking in contrast to what I saw at beaches in Odessa a month ago.

So if you go looking for "eye candy" women in summertime, downtown Odessa is where to be, it will definitely twist your head off it's shoulders.
Even Tanya commented on all the beautiful women several times, when we spent a few days there a month ago.   

FT,,,
Thank's for the comment,,,, I was an avid amateur photographer through all of my life.
So adding one more photo of my sweet Tanya below…….
And yes, life is good, or may I say very good these days,,, as I think my life in general was always good.
The water temperature in Zatoka is normal for this time of the year.

notf,,,
I would recommend mentioning it in your intro letter, together with a brief explanation of your history / knowledge of Ukraine
In my opinion a plus in your book,, I always talked quite a lot about my x-wife and my history with Ukraine.

Two days ago we visited the fortress in Bilgorod Dnestrovskyi.
It's the largest fortress in Ukraine and very well preserved, absolutely worth a visit, only half an hour away from Zatoka.
And while walking around inside I made sure to catch some nice photo opportunities wherever I saw possibilities.
I no longer carry a real camera when traveling, as so much is possible with a phone, or as here with a 4 year old pocket camera.

More updates to follow

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R450.jpg)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Russian123 on August 07, 2014, 10:05:25 AM
Northcape, could you please clarify how did you resolve situation with Lenochka tight connection to Russian Orthodox church? You were concerned about it, when moving her to Norway.
How now? Do you have a Russian church in your city?
Did Lenochka have an opportunity to attend it as often as she wished?
Are your boys baptized as Russian Orthodox?
Thank you in advance for the answers.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on August 09, 2014, 01:58:06 AM
Ru123,,,
I don't think I ever said anything about Lena being closely connected with the Russian Orthodox church, as she never was.
But her grandmother dedicated a large part of her life to active participation within this church community.
So yes, Lena was exposed to, and influenced by this church in her youth, when growing up together with her grandparents.
Today she lives a few minutes away from the Russian Orthodox church in Oslo, but she hasn't mentioned anything about visiting it.

Lena is talking with our boys every day on Skype, which is a good thing in many ways for my future family life together with Tanya. 
As Tanya often participates in the conversation with Lena to clarify subjects, or answer some of Lena's questions about the boys.
If only Lena could find a new man in her life also, I'm quite confident everything will work out silky smooth between the two of them.
 
Yesterday one of my boys snapped this nice photo of me and Tanya in Kiev,,,,
when visiting a "salt cave" clinic for trying to help one of my boys with his allergic asthma condition.

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R455.jpg)




Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Drew on August 10, 2014, 09:40:01 PM
Injecting salt water into the nostrils is one method of treating allergies.  Don't know the success rate.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Doll on August 11, 2014, 04:27:48 AM
OMG- Tanya is 27 years younger!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Drew on August 11, 2014, 09:15:52 AM
But he looks younger than her.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Drew on August 11, 2014, 09:18:05 AM
OMG- Tanya is 27 years younger!

And I'll bet he is forcing her to be with him.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: fathertime on August 11, 2014, 11:21:52 AM
Looking at that latest picture, the two look like they could be a genuine match, despite the large age difference. 


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Patagonie on August 12, 2014, 03:51:03 AM
She is clearly into you on the photo, congrats North !
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ade on August 12, 2014, 06:37:37 AM
OMG- Tanya is 27 years younger!


Not to worry; at the very least, she and her kids will get a nice new life in Norway.  ;)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Russian123 on August 13, 2014, 06:32:18 AM
Northcape, you are right, and I was mistaken. Sorry for that; I am your generation, and my memory (or maybe, reading comprehension) is not what it used to be. Alas...
You wrote on Feb 21, 2014:
"The other thing that has been worrying me and that we haven’t discussed in depth so far,
is her connection with the Orthodox church in her village at home.
I wouldn’t call her deeply religious, but she is strongly connected to it, and working / participating there every weekend.
She has already found the Orthodox churches in Oslo, one hour away, and wants to go there at least every Sunday.
Well, I can probably live with that also if everything else is as good as it seems so far."

One line before this description you were writing about Lena. So, I took the description of religious feelings as belonging to Lena.
But now I re-read the post, and actually you were talking about another, unnamed, woman with a small son that you picked up this year. You eventually dropped her off in favor of Tanya.

I am new to this forum, and read A LOT of stuff in one/two great sittings. I must say that your story is the most interesting and the most human. In some strange way I feel connected to you. I can easily imagine what it feels like to see 60 looking you in the face, while having two 11-year-olds to raise. Must be terrifying, especially given that your financial situation is not stable at all. I hope with all my heart that you made the right choice and that Tanya will prove to be as successful as Lena is.

I wish you the greatest luck!
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on August 14, 2014, 10:53:18 AM
Drew,,,
As far as I know, injecting salt water in the nostrils will do nothing at all for allergies.
But it is nice for cleaning your nostrils, my boys use it all the time.

Doll,,,
So what?

ft & Pat,,,
Thanks for the nice words......

Ade,,,
Hopefully yes, but in my opinion,,
her life will not be "nicer" than her present life in Ukraine, except for being with a man she feels comfortable sharing time with.
She has an apartment in a new upper level apartment building, with all new western style appliances, tiled floors and bathroom +++
(A nicer apartment than Lena has in Oslo)
Her 11 year old daughter has mostly all the same things as my boys, like latest iPhone, iPad and so on.... 
What is not so nice,,,,
Is moving away from all their friends, relatives and practically everything they are familiar with in life.
On top of this comes maybe ten years or more without living inside a "native" language, at least for Tanya.

Ru123,,,
Thanks for the well wishes..

Finished at the dentist today, and about to start driving home to Norway now together with my boys.......

Leaving behind my lovely Tanya
(Always linked to her phone, with family, friends, customers,,,,,,,)

(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R460.jpg)
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: Ade on August 15, 2014, 12:27:34 AM
Ah, yes North, I forgot that not only is life so damn good in Ukraine but also that kids can look forward to such a wealth of opportunities the like of which can hardly be seen in Norway.

 :rolleyes:

Come on man, at least try to be honest with yourself.
Title: Re: Update - 13 years later
Post by: northkape on August 16, 2014, 08:05:25 PM
Ade,,,
Yes, a common misconception among mankind throughout the history books,,
to think that everyone else is limited t