Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: Trenchcoat on July 08, 2017, 03:29:48 AM

Title: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 08, 2017, 03:29:48 AM
I think some people are more oblivious to bad signs than others. Though there are all sorts that come up during international dating and it is not always easy to tell. That and if you're coming off second best to local guys then that is likely to show. So try to improve on appearance, money & if you can personality. I know it's tough as there's a lot of competition out there at home in the US as in the UK. Recently I was in a resort with a lot of young guys from England walking around. They were either normal or tone physical appearance. However, the girls they were with were pretty much all fat. Obviously it was all they could get, they weren't all hugely fat and perhaps they had a nice personality but the fact that they could get a relationship without bothering on their weight but they all went with guys that did bother spoke volumes of the amount of effort guys need to make. Sure an odd few guys will come up trumps despite being under par in a few areas as the girl may be naturally into them but doesn't happen often I think. Pretty girls though can be difficult, they know what they are worth and believe me as I am finding out they'll make sure you are paying for it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 08, 2017, 02:07:21 PM
Quote
Pretty girls though can be difficult, they know what they are worth and believe me as I am finding out they'll make sure you are paying for it.


Sounds like the makings of a "beautiful" relationship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Muzh on July 09, 2017, 01:38:47 PM
I think some people are more oblivious to bad signs than others. Though there are all sorts that come up during international dating and it is not always easy to tell. That and if you're coming off second best to local guys then that is likely to show. So try to improve on appearance, money & if you can personality. I know it's tough as there's a lot of competition out there at home in the US as in the UK. Recently I was in a resort with a lot of young guys from England walking around. They were either normal or tone physical appearance. However, the girls they were with were pretty much all fat. Obviously it was all they could get, they weren't all hugely fat and perhaps they had a nice personality but the fact that they could get a relationship without bothering on their weight but they all went with guys that did bother spoke volumes of the amount of effort guys need to make. Sure an odd few guys will come up trumps despite being under par in a few areas as the girl may be naturally into them but doesn't happen often I think. Pretty girls though can be difficult, they know what they are worth and believe me as I am finding out they'll make sure you are paying for it.


Let me ask you.


If you cannot get a hot smoldering babe in the UK you think you can get one in the former Soyuz? If you think you can, can you tell me what is your basis for accomplishing such a feat?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on July 09, 2017, 02:51:24 PM

Let me ask you.


If you cannot get a hot smoldering babe in the UK you think you can get one in the former Soyuz?

I am guessing you have not read much of this guys posts -- he cannot get ANY woman in the UK  !!
His chances in the FSU are not much higher.

You can see my assessment of him in an earlier thread that  a few others agreed with at that time--and many months later others came to agree with.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 09, 2017, 11:13:25 PM
I am guessing you have not read much of this guys posts -- he cannot get ANY woman in the UK  !!
His chances in the FSU are not much higher.

You can see my assessment of him in an earlier thread that  a few others agreed with at that time--and many months later others came to agree with.

I cannot get any woman in the UK... that I would want.

For instance I could most likely get a fat girl in the UK but I don't find women that are naturally fat attractive, there tends to be no chemistry, genetically I don't think I am geared to be attracted to fat women. Many other guys in the UK are like this also there are only a handful that get turned on by overweight women. I doubt I could get hard over a fat girl and I know a guy who had a girl that was overweight and couldn't get hard and this of course is a problem - she lost weight as she was not a naturally fat and all was good again.

Admittedly I have one or two areas I fall down on as a guy. I wouldn't be on here otherwise, if I was a flash rich dude up for personality of the year award I would have hot women in the UK flocking to me and no need to look abroad. Odds are Jay you have your own shortcomings but I fear your problem may be that you are too proud to admit it and admitting you have shortcomings is a necessary part of making progress in the search for an FSW I think. If you can look yourself in the mirror and know what your shortcomings are then you can be aware, adapt, alleviate, improve etc on these shortcomings. Its something I think OP needs to do without getting into a self-character assassination situation - none of us are perfect after all. He needs to look at why said girl went of after gaining her green card - was he not very wealthy, not very handsome - left himself go, overweight, etc. and her was she a straight 10 and be admirable to many flash guys out there looking for a hot girl. Myself my girl facially is a straight 10 and being very pretty and knowing how competitive things are for women in the UK yes if I brought her back here I would likely have men who think they are so much better than me trying to move in and take her off me - and yes they may well succeed. Do I want to go to all the trouble of bringing a girl to the UK just for some guy to take the pee and take her off me in an instant, no of course not. OP here did that and it looks like that is what he got. I know my shortcomings and OP needs to know his. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 09, 2017, 11:37:45 PM

Let me ask you.


If you cannot get a hot smoldering babe in the UK you think you can get one in the former Soyuz? If you think you can, can you tell me what is your basis for accomplishing such a feat?

I have a hot smoldering babe in the former Soyuz :D And that is the problem, I did not set out to go for a hot smoldering babe she saw my profile and put in for me, if I were to bring her back to UK as I've just stated under Jay's post I would have the fear that other guys that are full of themselves would straight away move in on her. I know what these 'cock of the week' guys are like over here they are full of themselves and think they are self-entitled to move in on any hot babe they so desire.

How did I accomplish such a feat? lol. Admittedly I gain a few points in the Money category for women in Ukraine that I would not do here (Ukraine being a poorer country, good pound to ghrivna exchange rate) Looks category I think I score at least decently on thoughI could do with working out a little and Personality category I'm admittedly not an 'In crowd' party type so don't score highly there - though FSU society seems to place less emphasis on how good with your yap you are unlike the US & UK so its not necessarily as weighty a category. So scoring enough points in the Money & I would hope Looks category was probably enough. The money category is an issue for me as I did not intend for a girl to be attracted to me for that and with her I just need to get to know her better to see exactly what basis we are on with each other. Being an attractive girl it seems to come with a higher maintenance price tag, I mean she's not real uber expensive in terms of wanting jewellery and stuff costing thousands but stuff she wants all mounts up and being a FSU girl she expects me to be paying and this I do find a pain.

So you are living in Cuba? That must be a bit unusual on here.     
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 09, 2017, 11:54:52 PM
Since when was Puerto Rico  'Cuba ? ... 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 10, 2017, 12:05:18 AM
I have a hot smoldering babe in the former Soyuz :D

But DOES he ?   

I'm surprised our Trench isn't worried about what she is getting up to - when not in his presence...For sure, she is going to find out his 'trust' and other issues, soon enough ... [/quote]

How did I accomplish such a feat?

I'll hazard a guess...She 'found' you ?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on July 10, 2017, 01:26:36 AM
?   

I'm surprised our Trench

OUR  Trench --  he is not "ours" --he is your ==  pommie git !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 10, 2017, 02:24:58 AM
But DOES he ?   

I'm surprised our Trench isn't worried about what she is getting up to - when not in his presence...For sure, she is going to find out his 'trust' and other issues, soon enough ...

I'll hazard a guess...She 'found' you ?

I 'think' she is not getting up to anything when I am not around, but I don't 'know' that she is not. Why? because I am not living with her on everyday domestic basis and even then as OP found there's no assurances there either.

I'm often reminded on here about my 'trust' issues, OP I assume didn't have any trust issues whatsoever and look what happened there. So is having trust issues particularly with someone I have only known a short while such a bad thing? If anything I am learning that having trust issues on this search is not a bad thing, why not after all safeguard yourself against bad outcomes - there are loads of girls in Ukraine & Russia who go after guys for all sorts of reasons other than the stated that the guy put on his profile, normally that he is looking for a relationship & possibly kids. Yet some girls go with guys after the guy has repeatedly stated what they want and uncaringly waste the guys time, money & effort because they want a free holiday, be bought stuff, free visa, Immigration, etc. Why as a guy should I not protect myself from that than be used by a girl who just does not care about what position I am left in as a result. You yourself Mobe have gone through a divorce with wife - were you done right by in that relationship? Your present relationship will you be getting married there or are there 'trust issues'? I just think it would be a good thing for all those looking for a relationship in the FSU to actually have trust issues and play it carefully. If we all did that then perhaps a lot of the bad girls that seek to mess guys around for their wants would see it as too bothersome and go entertain themselves elsewhere.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Muzh on July 10, 2017, 09:01:08 AM
Since when was Puerto Rico  'Cuba ? ...


They used to call it two birds of a feather.  ;)


He may have a slight problem with color recognition.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 10, 2017, 04:33:20 PM
I have a hot smoldering babe in the former Soyuz :D And that is the problem, I did not set out to go for a hot smoldering babe she saw my profile and put in for me, if I were to bring her back to UK as I've just stated under Jay's post I would have the fear that other guys that are full of themselves would straight away move in on her. I know what these 'cock of the week' guys are like over here they are full of themselves and think they are self-entitled to move in on any hot babe they so desire.

How did I accomplish such a feat? lol. Admittedly I gain a few points in the Money category for women in Ukraine that I would not do here (Ukraine being a poorer country, good pound to ghrivna exchange rate) Looks category I think I score at least decently on thoughI could do with working out a little and Personality category I'm admittedly not an 'In crowd' party type so don't score highly there - though FSU society seems to place less emphasis on how good with your yap you are unlike the US & UK so its not necessarily as weighty a category. So scoring enough points in the Money & I would hope Looks category was probably enough. The money category is an issue for me as I did not intend for a girl to be attracted to me for that and with her I just need to get to know her better to see exactly what basis we are on with each other. Being an attractive girl it seems to come with a higher maintenance price tag, I mean she's not real uber expensive in terms of wanting jewellery and stuff costing thousands but stuff she wants all mounts up and being a FSU girl she expects me to be paying and this I do find a pain.

So you are living in Cuba? That must be a bit unusual on here.   


How much time have you spent together physically?


What sorts of things are you expected to fund?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 10, 2017, 08:36:48 PM
OUR  Trench --  he is not "ours" --he is your ==  pommie git !

When it comes to being associated with Trench, I'm pretending I only have Irish nationality . ;)


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 10, 2017, 08:56:03 PM
You yourself Mobe have gone through a divorce with wife - were you done right by in that relationship?

If you'd asked me that at the time, I'd have said, no -  but it is amazing what time can heal. We both did some daft things . Do I regret this time, now? - no way ..  It is easy to say - now - but it is better to have loved and lost - than never to have loved at all.  I wouldn't have met SC and been able to communicate with her - if it hadn't have been for living with V and my step-son for 5 plus years.  We trusted each other to be monogamous  and we were.



Your present relationship will you be getting married there or are there 'trust issues'?

No trust issues, just not divorced - yet = from RU Wife #1 - not for the want of trying - not helped by Courts losing docs - because the Courts handling the Divorce changed - and some confusion over the 'legality' of a certified copy of our Marriage Certificate - not UK

I just think it would be a good thing for all those looking for a relationship in the FSU to actually have trust issues and play it carefully. If we all did that then perhaps a lot of the bad girls that seek to mess guys around for their wants would see it as too bothersome and go entertain themselves elsewhere.

Trench - don't get married ....    Trust is something earnt over time - you really do have trust issues....  and some bizarre reasoning to be looking overseas....

 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 10, 2017, 11:47:57 PM

How much time have you spent together physically?


What sorts of things are you expected to fund?

We have been together physically for 2 weeks now. Now we are apart again and I want to fairly soon move to a situation where we are living together as opposed to a meet up every 6 weeks or so. Apparently she expects me to fund all her clothes purchases (though she goes her clothes shopping mainly when 'the sales' are on so at a discount some of the clothing she chooses is designer label - Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren, Lacoste, etc) also some beauty products/cosmetics, supermarket food, restaurants, etc. She says a 'Real Man' is one who buys stuff for her - apparently the last time she bought clothing was roughly 3 years ago, she works in retail so earns very little and that money goes on rent - I have no reason to doubt that and believe she is telling the truth. We deem our relationship a serious relationship and have stated to each other we shall just see each other, we have been intimate on both occasions together. I personally think she has trouble finding a guy locally as they would simply be not up to her expectation of providing for her. She doesn't go for expensive jewellery (I've bought her no jewellery so far) or clothes costing thousands but it all adds up. I have told her I am not responsible for the lack of clothing she has had - she likes clothes/fashion, she is very girly.

I have reservations about her coming to the UK not only because of the documentation process which looks an ordeal but because I see UK society as bringing no good to a relationship. When we we're on holiday we ate out a lot and I would fear that if she came to the UK to live permanently she would follow the present trend of girls eating out a lot as they socialize and get fat. That's before we get to all the other issues of UK society of feminism, careers, divorce law and of course trading up. She is very pretty facially and at least at the outset before any risk of her getting fat she would be very in demand by UK men. Yes she seems into me but I know UK men and some flash extrovert type would no doubt take it upon himself to push himself upon her as he's birthright. No way am I going to be played for a fool and so the only way forward for me in this or any relationship as I see it is to secure a independent source of income here (which I am now working on) and live of the proceeds in Ukraine or wherever in FSU. In Ukraine the Pound/Dollar/Euro goes a refreshingly long way so I would literally be able to cover rent and bills with independent income from the UK before any use of savings or attempt at a job.

If there were any problems in relationship I would be in the happy position of having a pool of girls to immediately choose from again :D She would be faced with the competition rather than me :D and all my assets are protected :D For me this is the only way that I can see as practical for me in FSU dating otherwise you risk getting problems like OP above. Sure some guys have brought back women to the US or UK straight off and its worked but I get the impression they scored quite highly on most counts on the scorecard to start with.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2017, 12:04:52 AM
If you'd asked me that at the time, I'd have said, no -  but it is amazing what time can heal. We both did some daft things . Do I regret this time, now? - no way ..  It is easy to say - now - but it is better to have loved and lost - than never to have loved at all.  I wouldn't have met SC and been able to communicate with her - if it hadn't have been for living with V and my step-son for 5 plus years.  We trusted each other to be monogamous  and we were.



No trust issues, just not divorced - yet = from RU Wife #1 - not for the want of trying - not helped by Courts losing docs - because the Courts handling the Divorce changed - and some confusion over the 'legality' of a certified copy of our Marriage Certificate - not UK

Trench - don't get married ....    Trust is something earnt over time - you really do have trust issues....  and some bizarre reasoning to be looking overseas....

I think you're right Moby, not for me to get married at least not for the time being. I have a few issues with girl at present mainly:

1). She seems to be a Shopaholic.

2). Disagreement between us on where to be together and neither of us has so far budged, she wants UK I am wary and suggest elsewhere.

Despite this we seem into each other and I care about her she's a really sweet girl and loving. Yes I have trust issues not just with her but any girl. I would need to get to know girl better over a longer period of time and even then to be honest I would rather play the ball in my court as I would just get too worried if I was reckless in leaving myself vulnerable as OP seems to have done.

I assume when you do finally get divorced your present wife will be going for at least the 50 percent of your assets? possibly more if she has a child even though it is not your own. For your new relationship, what of that? are you going to live/marry abroad and protect yourself or bring her back to the UK leaving yourself potentially vulnerable. After all your new partner may see you as easily taken since you are already being divorced by one FSW how do you know she does not view you as easy pickings.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 11, 2017, 10:03:57 AM
Whenever you hear the words "real man" from an FSUW, you are being manipulated, or there is an attempt at manipulation.  BTW, a FSUM would not be buying his woman clothes, unless she's his wife, or he's wealthy and she's a disposable side piece. 

What is the age difference?

How are you going to support yourself if you move to Ukraine?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 11, 2017, 10:50:34 AM
In Ukraine the Pound/Dollar/Euro goes a refreshingly long way so I would literally be able to cover rent and bills with independent income from the UK before any use of savings or attempt at a job.


This is a misunderstanding of how exchange rate changes work in both theory and practice.

e.g.  Exchange rate was $1 USD to 5 Ukrainian hryvnia.
Now exchange rate is  $1 USD to 26 Ukrainia hryvnia.

So the naive think that their USD, Euro or whatever will buy 5 times as much now as before.

Wrong!!

The prices of many items in Ukraine have gone up by 5 times in terms of hryvnia.

Currency devaluation leads to price inflation in the devaluing country.

And many items, other than basic food items, are priced in terms of USD.

My spouse just returned from Ukraine and she has known for the past several years what has happened to the cost of living for her parents and other relatives.

Many who were living fairly comfortable lives before are now just barely scraping by because costs have risen so dramatically while salaries and pension payments have barely moved.  She now needs to provide support money to relatives who did not need it before.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 11, 2017, 10:55:12 AM
I think you're right Moby, not for me to get married at least not for the time being. I have a few issues with girl at present mainly:

1). She seems to be a Shopaholic.

2). Disagreement between us on where to be together and neither of us has so far budged, she wants UK I am wary and suggest elsewhere.

Despite this we seem into each other and I care about her she's a really sweet girl and loving. Yes I have trust issues not just with her but any girl. I would need to get to know girl better over a longer period of time and even then to be honest I would rather play the ball in my court as I would just get too worried if I was reckless in leaving myself vulnerable as OP seems to have done.

Trench, only you can know this - but it REALLY does seem she is into you for your wallet - if I am wrong and you marry the girl and cewlebrate five years bliis I will stump up the bill at a reasobable place...NOT McDonalds...

Also the UK, immigration process for a Spouse - is not that hard... a bit on the pricy side - about the same as buying a decent 10 year old car...


I assume when you do finally get divorced your present wife will be going for at least the 50 percent of your assets?

Nope, We agreed finances in the formal of an agreement that was witnessed and binding on both of us some years ago.  Basically, We leave as we entered the relationship - although I funded them while we were together. She was no gold-digger.


For your new relationship, what of that? are you going to live/marry abroad and protect yourself or bring her back to the UK leaving yourself potentially vulnerable. After all your new partner may see you as easily taken since you are already being divorced by one FSW how do you know she does not view you as easy pickings.

In the light of my previous answer, you'll note that I am not worried and SC owns her place outright in a very desirable part of an expensive ( for Russia ) city. I do not believe in prenups......
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2017, 11:07:08 AM
This is a misunderstanding of how exchange rate changes work in both theory and practice.

e.g.  Exchange rate was $1 USD to 5 Ukrainian hryvnia.
Now exchange rate is  $1 USD to 26 Ukrainia hryvnia.

So the naive think that their USD, Euro or whatever will buy 5 times as much now as before.

Wrong!!

The prices of many items in Ukraine have gone up by 5 times in terms of hryvnia.

Currency devaluation leads to price inflation in the devaluing country.

And many items, other than basic food items, are priced in terms of USD.

My spouse just returned from Ukraine and she has known for the past several years what has happened to the cost of living for her parents and other relatives.

Many who were living fairly comfortable lives before are now just barely scraping by because costs have risen so dramatically while salaries and pension payments have barely moved.  She now needs to provide support money to relatives who did not need it before.

This is true, when I was there this year I think you could really tell the hyper inflation of the previous two years have taken affect. Things cost a lot more and much more similar to cost in UK. A few things possibly more expensive and an odd few things still much cheaper.

Previous year I'm sure things were generally on the whole much cheaper than this year in Ukraine. I think though the real saving though comes from stuff like hotels or apartments which if choosy enough can be much cheaper than the UK.

Girl I was with this year didn't seem to realise this though that price of clothing was approximately the same as UK. Sure my earning power may have been more than her but it can still all add up a bit.

Above noted it can still be a decent deal in Ukraine compared to shopping in Euros in Europe. My experience in Moscow was that Russia seemed a bit more expensive than Ukraine. You are right though ML the devaluation & inflation of Ukrainian currency has caused much the affect as you've described. Not many Ukrainians were buying much clothing in the shops when I went there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2017, 11:18:54 AM
Whenever you hear the words "real man" from an FSUW, you are being manipulated, or there is an attempt at manipulation.  BTW, a FSUM would not be buying his woman clothes, unless she's his wife, or he's wealthy and she's a disposable side piece. 

What is the age difference?

How are you going to support yourself if you move to Ukraine?

There is a 14 year age difference, she is in her twenties. She contacted me. I initially said the age difference was too much but she was adamant that it was not. You may well be right that she is being manipulative on the Real Man thing - thank you for your input here it not always easy to see when on the inside of a relationship in a foreign situation. I was really looking for a girl nearer my age but she just came up and seemed into me when meeting in Kiev she did on recent holiday also but I think in some ways it was a step back on holiday the Kiev stay had more of a better relationship vibe to it on the whole I thought. We stayed in an apartment and seemed more working towards a relationship I think.

Well, essentially I would take in lodgers in my house to fund my rent/living costs while over there. Then just have savings for back up and see if I can pick up a small amount of English Language teacher work to keep myself a bit occupied.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2017, 11:27:35 AM
Trench, only you can know this - but it REALLY does seem she is into you for your wallet - if I am wrong and you marry the girl and cewlebrate five years bliis I will stump up the bill at a reasobable place...NOT McDonalds...

Also the UK, immigration process for a Spouse - is not that hard... a bit on the pricy side - about the same as buying a decent 10 year old car...


Nope, We agreed finances in the formal of an agreement that was witnessed and binding on both of us some years ago.  Basically, We leave as we entered the relationship - although I funded them while we were together. She was no gold-digger.


In the light of my previous answer, you'll note that I am not worried and SC owns her place outright in a very desirable part of an expensive ( for Russia ) city. I do not believe in prenups......

I'm surprised Moby that your wife agreed to that most women these days will take a guy for all its worth and many know any previous agreements in the divorce courts in the UK may not be respected by the court.

Was it your intention to go for a woman that was quite wealthy as your new partner in the FSU or did it just happen that way?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on July 11, 2017, 12:27:48 PM
Trench,

Your views on this board are quite jaundiced.  While there are many women who will take a man 'for everything they are worth' the majority of women I know who go through divorce want an equitable split of monies, and, in many cases, want some type of income stream due to the idea that they were home having babies while the husband was increasing his earning capacity.

Also, your idea of wealthy is much different than mine.  The fact that a woman owns her flat in a nice part of the city does not indicate independent wealth.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 11, 2017, 01:50:29 PM
There is a 14 year age difference, she is in her twenties. She contacted me. I initially said the age difference was too much but she was adamant that it was not. You may well be right that she is being manipulative on the Real Man thing - thank you for your input here it not always easy to see when on the inside of a relationship in a foreign situation. I was really looking for a girl nearer my age but she just came up and seemed into me when meeting in Kiev she did on recent holiday also but I think in some ways it was a step back on holiday the Kiev stay had more of a better relationship vibe to it on the whole I thought. We stayed in an apartment and seemed more working towards a relationship I think.

Well, essentially I would take in lodgers in my house to fund my rent/living costs while over there. Then just have savings for back up and see if I can pick up a small amount of English Language teacher work to keep myself a bit occupied.

Only a certain "layer" of their society uses words such as "real man".   

Do you think a local man would be buying her make up and clothing after a couple of weeks of shagging? 

Ukraine, presently, is a dead end.  As I understand it, you are in your mid thirties, entering your peak earning years.  Why would you throw that away? Plus, anyone who consistently fails to recognize the difference between a possessive pronoun and a contraction has no business teaching English.

If you really believe she is "the one", then fund her study in the UK and don't marry her.  Yes, it will cost you money, but less than a failed marriage. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2017, 04:04:53 PM

Only a certain "layer" of their society uses words such as "real man".   


Do you think a local man would be buying her make up and clothing after a couple of weeks of shagging? 


Ukraine, presently, is a dead end.  As I understand it, you are in your mid thirties, entering your peak earning years.  Why would you throw that away?  If you really believe she is "the one", then fund her study in the UK and don't marry her.  Yes, it will cost you money, but less than a failed marriage.

What 'layer' is that?

No I pretty sure a local guy would not be buying her all that clothing stuff. I very much doubt he would be able to afford it. I brought this up with her she seems to think it is different for foreigners. Apparently her friend is going out with a foreigner and he buys her lots of clothes. She expresses that she is a girl and as such likes clothes. I know that because she is hot and young that she may feel that by going out with an older guy that she should get all that stuff coming to her. Personally though I think it has been damaging to our relationship. I think I felt more on relationship terms when in Kiev and I bought her much less. Anyway she seems to refuse to accept that she shouldn't get bought stuff. I never set out to be a sugar daddy lol or believed this to be part of our relationship. I think your right Boethius in that I am going to have to express my misgivings over it and stipulate that she will not be bought any more unless we are married. I just see the relationship not working out otherwise and that is something I would not wish for.

Why give up on earning income? Basically without being in a loving relationship life is pretty empty and I don't feel motivated anyway, there is no real reason to need a lot of money if it is just me, nor a need to bother with a career ladder. In any case while my line of work bring in ok sort of money like many careers in the UK these days the money is not great even as a degree qualified professional. So I'm not giving up as much as you might suppose.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Brasscasing on July 11, 2017, 04:50:32 PM
What 'layer' is that?

Boethius has a certain view of FSU women who use the term "real man". I don't particularly agree with her views on the subject but contained within this rather amusing thread is a discussion and a link to another topic discussing the "real man" issue which I'll link here as well.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21311.msg447957#msg447957

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21138.msg440511#msg440511

Brass
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on July 11, 2017, 04:59:10 PM
What 'layer' is that?

No I pretty sure a local guy would not be buying her all that clothing stuff. I very much doubt he would be able to afford it. I brought this up with her she seems to think it is different for foreigners. Apparently her friend is going out with a foreigner and he buys her lots of clothes. She expresses that she is a girl and as such likes clothes. I know that because she is hot and young that she may feel that by going out with an older guy that she should get all that stuff coming to her. Personally though I think it has been damaging to our relationship. I think I felt more on relationship terms when in Kiev and I bought her much less. Anyway she seems to refuse to accept that she shouldn't get bought stuff. I never set out to be a sugar daddy lol or believed this to be part of our relationship. I think your right Boethius in that I am going to have to express my misgivings over it and stipulate that she will not be bought any more unless we are married. I just see the relationship not working out otherwise and that is something I would not wish for.

What you have to understand is your 'relationship' maybe in her eyes is she gave you what you wanted , now she gets what she wants....pure and simple.

And old girlfriend once told me about a guy she first met(Ukrainian) in Odesa. He gave her some money to take taxi home from club. Afterward, she learned he walked home that night since he had no money left. She was keen on him because of this. After a few years, baby in tow, he is still out working to help support her and daughter. This is called giving all you can. Although I never gave her money for clothes, I did send some money for English classes, about $150 spread over several months.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 11, 2017, 10:14:16 PM
I'm surprised Moby that your wife agreed to that

That you are surprised should be the first of the many misconceptions you need to address.

many know any previous agreements in the divorce courts in the UK may not be respected by the court.

Then they don't know... A financial agreement made in conjunction with separation is rarely set aside if both parties agreed to it and no pressure was brought to bear.

Was it your intention to go for a woman that was quite wealthy as your new partner in the FSU or did it just happen that way?

If my intention was financial gain, I would have married a high flying UK divorcee with a big house or two and asizeable income. ..

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2017, 07:31:20 AM
What you have to understand is your 'relationship' maybe in her eyes is she gave you what you wanted , now she gets what she wants....pure and simple.

And old girlfriend once told me about a guy she first met(Ukrainian) in Odesa. He gave her some money to take taxi home from club. Afterward, she learned he walked home that night since he had no money left. She was keen on him because of this. After a few years, baby in tow, he is still out working to help support her and daughter. This is called giving all you can. Although I never gave her money for clothes, I did send some money for English classes, about $150 spread over several months.

Sugar, sugar, Honey, honey :D

You mean no sugar no honey :(

You could well be right LA Man, I'm just going to have to discuss some more about all this shopping lark as I can't see continuing on that basis as a good thing if there is something of that to it. Its more an actual family setting I am after, if some sort of reasonable agreement on what she gets in terms of clothes shopping can be hammered out then I would not necessarily be opposed to that I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2017, 07:46:59 AM
That you are surprised should be the first of the many misconceptions you need to address.

Then they don't know... A financial agreement made in conjunction with separation is rarely set aside if both parties agreed to it and no pressure was brought to bear.

If my intention was financial gain, I would have married a high flying UK divorcee with a big house or two and asizeable income. ..

So kind of like an out of court divorce agreement. Why did she agree if she could clearly take you for more? Many women these days would not hesitate. If she agreed to less on the basis of what she came into the marriage with then this is very usual these days and she would seem to be a decent person and you were lucky in that at least.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2017, 07:58:19 AM
Only a certain "layer" of their society uses words such as "real man".   

She comes from a proletarian area if that is what you mean so you are right in that. It kind of surprised me how she carried on though, like a spoilt LA teenager - i.e from a poor background but acting like all I was providing for her was a day to day occurrence in her life - nice hotels, clothes & beauty product shopping, eats out in many restaurants. She was in my opinion worse attitude than in Kiev on our first meet - kind of brattish.

I think you are right in the other threads of a 'real man' displaying a kind of attitude. I am going to have to put her in her place I think, I know she expects more from a foreign guy than she would get at home as a default regardless of who it is or perhaps how much she is into him but I see no good coming off it if she doesn't get reigned in. The way I see it she now has clothing she somewhat lacked and I'm calling a halt to it. I will make it clear there will be no clothes shopping etc on future meets and only in marriage etc will I be paying for any more.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Muzh on July 12, 2017, 08:46:05 AM
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 12, 2017, 12:39:32 PM
She comes from a proletarian area if that is what you mean so you are right in that. It kind of surprised me how she carried on though, like a spoilt LA teenager - i.e from a poor background but acting like all I was providing for her was a day to day occurrence in her life - nice hotels, clothes & beauty product shopping, eats out in many restaurants. She was in my opinion worse attitude than in Kiev on our first meet - kind of brattish.

I think you are right in the other threads of a 'real man' displaying a kind of attitude. I am going to have to put her in her place I think, I know she expects more from a foreign guy than she would get at home as a default regardless of who it is or perhaps how much she is into him but I see no good coming off it if she doesn't get reigned in. The way I see it she now has clothing she somewhat lacked and I'm calling a halt to it. I will make it clear there will be no clothes shopping etc on future meets and only in marriage etc will I be paying for any more.


No, you misunderstood me. 

The term "real man" as used here is not a direct translation.  A direct translation of "real man" (in Russian) is "настоящий мужик".  But that term means a man who is heroical, or a man of action, or it's used sarcastically (just a few examples).  It does not correspond with what I am referring to.  The term used by FSUW with WM is discussed on FSUW forums, and its purpose is manipulation.  I'm not suggesting all FSUW, in fact, most are decent and looking for a normal life.  I'm referring to a particular subset.  They also refer to what they can "claw" out of WM.  If you read these terms,  you would not understand them, as they are in slang, often slang that started with criminals, and can't be google translated.  That, I believe, is intentional.

Muzh's eyeroll was because he knows what is going on.  These are general comments, not directed at you, in particular, but to archetypes, as I don't know your relationship.  But I'll use it as an example.  So, don't be offended, just think.

What have you got to offer a girl in her (early?) twenties? (I assume she is under 25?)  I doubt you are David Beckham's doppleganger.  So, your value as a close to middle aged WM is in providing her comfort - material comfort - and security - a life in the West.  She can find plenty of UM her age who are better looking than you, and better in bed.  But they don't have euros/dollars/pounds to spend on her, nor a foreign passport, which is a gateway to a more stable and prosperous life.   She is playing the long game, which is why she seduced you, probably within your first three days together (and likely let you believe it was the other way around).  So, if you have that conversation with her, she will either (a)  Dump you and find another WM who is more "generous"; or (b) Agree and play the long game.

You cannot win trying to adapt to her culture or using what you assume are "appropriate" responses to elicit certain reactions.  The culture is completely foreign to you, and you don't have the cultural cues to succeed at it.  It's a losing game, anyway.  Always be who you are.  You can't have a successful relationship being someone else.  Also, examine what it is you are really looking for.  Be brutally honest with yourself in that assessment, and what it is you offer her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on July 12, 2017, 01:05:51 PM
She comes from a proletarian area if that is what you mean so you are right in that. It kind of surprised me how she carried on though, like a spoilt LA teenager - i.e from a poor background but acting like all I was providing for her was a day to day occurrence in her life - nice hotels, clothes & beauty product shopping, eats out in many restaurants. She was in my opinion worse attitude than in Kiev on our first meet - kind of brattish.

I think you are right in the other threads of a 'real man' displaying a kind of attitude. I am going to have to put her in her place I think, I know she expects more from a foreign guy than she would get at home as a default regardless of who it is or perhaps how much she is into him but I see no good coming off it if she doesn't get reigned in. The way I see it she now has clothing she somewhat lacked and I'm calling a halt to it. I will make it clear there will be no clothes shopping etc on future meets and only in marriage etc will I be paying for any more.


What is her attitude about working? If she's willing then that would help out the war effort.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 12, 2017, 01:16:04 PM
Sugar, sugar, Honey, honey :D

You mean no sugar no honey :(

No..." No money , no honey" ..

So kind of like an out of court divorce agreement.

No.. it's a "financial separation agreement" - made by couples separating - and can cover post divorce arrangements - Such agreements are readily downloadable from UK legal websites.

Why did she agree if she could clearly take you for more?

You'd have to ask her and likely she'd tell you to mind your own....;) We are on good terms, now. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2017, 01:34:35 PM

What is her attitude about working? If she's willing then that would help out the war effort.

Good to hear from you on here Steamer I recall you from earlier threads. Well my thoughts exactly I put forward to her a solution whereby we could live in an EU country where we both can speak the language and earn. She would be earning more than in Ukraine and would have not rent costs to pay just pay for the groceries and the rest to spend on herself or save in case she needed to help her parents out in future. This seemed a good solution to me but no she wants the UK. She was apparently oblivious to the fact that in the west women earn approximately the same as men and most go halves/take care of their own spending. She pulled a funny face at that, she hasn't directly said no but I really don't see her taking to the idea. It's a shame as of she was spending her own money she would then realise the worth of it. As it is with mine she really just doesn't seem to care. If I brought her to UK I doubt I would get much help out if her so it would be a mistake. I think she might well go about finding a really rich guy to suit her needs. I'm just going to have to play this carefully I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on July 12, 2017, 01:58:47 PM
Good to hear from you on here Steamer I recall you from earlier threads. Well my thoughts exactly I put forward to her a solution whereby we could live in an EU country where we both can speak the language and earn. She would be earning more than in Ukraine and would have not rent costs to pay just pay for the groceries and the rest to spend on herself or save in case she needed to help her parents out in future. This seemed a good solution to me but no she wants the UK. She was apparently oblivious to the fact that in the west women earn approximately the same as men and most go halves/take care of their own spending. She pulled a funny face at that, she hasn't directly said no but I really don't see her taking to the idea. It's a shame as of she was spending her own money she would then realise the worth of it. As it is with mine she really just doesn't seem to care. If I brought her to UK I doubt I would get much help out if her so it would be a mistake. I think she might well go about finding a really rich guy to suit her needs. I'm just going to have to play this carefully I think.

Could be she wants the destination more than the individual.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 12, 2017, 02:48:49 PM
I think she might well go about finding a really rich guy to suit her needs. I'm just going to have to play this carefully I think.

If you really think that then you need to dump her and move
on. Don't try to fix broken people, there are plenty enough
FSUW that aren't broken running around.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 12, 2017, 04:10:44 PM
She was apparently oblivious to the fact that in the west women earn approximately the same as men


Most WW do not earn the same as men.  But even if they did, she is not a WW, and she does not have the same earning potential as a native.

Quote

and most go halves/take care of their own spending.


But that is not a traditional relationship.  You stated you are traditional.  So, what is it?  Do you want an emancipated woman paying half of everything , or do you want a traditional woman who relies on you?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on July 12, 2017, 05:31:40 PM

No..." No money , no honey" ..

No.. it's a "financial separation agreement" - made by couples separating - and can cover post divorce arrangements - Such agreements are readily downloadable from UK legal websites.

You'd have to ask her and likely she'd tell you to mind your own....;) We are on good terms, now. 

The agreements are mostly vacated by courts in the United States today.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2017, 05:46:57 PM


No, you misunderstood me. 

The term "real man" as used here is not a direct translation.  A direct translation of "real man" (in Russian) is "настоящий мужик".  But that term means a man who is heroical, or a man of action, or it's used sarcastically (just a few examples).  It does not correspond with what I am referring to.  The term used by FSUW with WM is discussed on FSUW forums, and its purpose is manipulation.  I'm not suggesting all FSUW, in fact, most are decent and looking for a normal life.  I'm referring to a particular subset.  They also refer to what they can "claw" out of WM.  If you read these terms,  you would not understand them, as they are in slang, often slang that started with criminals, and can't be google translated.  That, I believe, is intentional.

Muzh's eyeroll was because he knows what is going on.  These are general comments, not directed at you, in particular, but to archetypes, as I don't know your relationship.  But I'll use it as an example.  So, don't be offended, just think.

What have you got to offer a girl in her (early?) twenties? (I assume she is under 25?)  I doubt you are David Beckham's doppleganger.  So, your value as a close to middle aged WM is in providing her comfort - material comfort - and security - a life in the West.  She can find plenty of UM her age who are better looking than you, and better in bed.  But they don't have euros/dollars/pounds to spend on her, nor a foreign passport, which is a gateway to a more stable and prosperous life.   She is playing the long game, which is why she seduced you, probably within your first three days together (and likely let you believe it was the other way around).  So, if you have that conversation with her, she will either (a)  Dump you and find another WM who is more "generous"; or (b) Agree and play the long game.

You cannot win trying to adapt to her culture or using what you assume are "appropriate" responses to elicit certain reactions.  The culture is completely foreign to you, and you don't have the cultural cues to succeed at it.  It's a losing game, anyway.  Always be who you are.  You can't have a successful relationship being someone else.  Also, examine what it is you are really looking for.  Be brutally honest with yourself in that assessment, and what it is you offer her.


What about natural chemistry? Could that not happen between an age gap such as this? I'm not saying it is what there is here. In all honesty its looking like in this case going for a guy that can provide for her is a motivating factor. Looks wise I could improve a bit if I were to tone up a bit, but I think you are right, I think there is probably quite a big pool of women in the FSU, particularly Ukraine who are after WM that can provide for them rather than WM for natural attraction. Of course the big issue is that bringing such a girl back to the west what is the chance they may quickly be then looking for an upgrade particularly if they notice men taking an interest with more money, natural attraction, personality to their liking.

I'm not trying to be someone else, or at least I hope not, perhaps she misconstrued me as someone else a man of many means perhaps. I'm really just looking for a girl where there is natural chemistry between us and a desire to have children soon. In terms of what I can offer a girl I would say of course a better lifestyle, more comfortable, but I expect the girl to pitch in a little, it does not have to be full time work just carry her own weight a bit, financially speaking. What I'm not too keen on though is a girl that just wants to hang off me expecting me to spend my money without concern and not get to the family situation I want to be in. So with this girl unless I can sort out some sort of a situation that will suit us both moving forward may be difficult to impossible I fear. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2017, 06:05:30 PM

Most WW do not earn the same as men.  But even if they did, she is not a WW, and she does not have the same earning potential as a native.



But that is not a traditional relationship.  You stated you are traditional.  So, what is it?  Do you want an emancipated woman paying half of everything , or do you want a traditional woman who relies on you?

I would say a part time job where she could spend the money on clothing and stuff she wants to buy would work fine by me and still be in keeping with the traditional aspect as many women in the past did part time work or gender defined work such as secretary, etc. She works at the moment in retail but if she worked in the west she would get paid a better rate in retail. She has a degree in management though and  my thought is that she may be want to come to the west for that - she would earn a lot more doing that and I think would be good at it as she is very organisational & in some way leadership orientated. I don't see the out come to me doing me any good though other than being a stepping stone. If she had a child with me first it would alleviate this fear I think, but brazenly being used as a stepping stone is not something I am going to go along with. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 12, 2017, 06:27:00 PM
That's not very "traditional".


You are looking at this from a perspective of "What's in it for me?"  It's not the path to a long lasting relationship, not even one that starts with love (which I don't think is the case, if what you describe is accurate).


If you truly believe this girl may use you as a stepping stone, then she is not the girl for you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: southernX on July 12, 2017, 06:53:41 PM
If you really think that then you need to dump her and move
on. Don't try to fix broken people, there are plenty enough
FSUW that aren't broken running around.

trenchcoat , here is the best advice

there is an old saying ''start off as you mean to continue ''

in your case it seems you have not done that and now wish to move the goal posts on her behaviour ?   if you  have spent easily on her from the start with an age gap so big then you have created this issue largely from the get go

i can not see this ending in marriage , or at least a succesful one

SX
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 12, 2017, 07:40:08 PM
If you really think that then you need to dump her and move on. Don't try to fix broken people, there are plenty enough FSUW that aren't broken running around.

This is what I can't figure out.  Trenchcoat has enumerated one red flag after another, and yet he still seems to be in this post-coital daze of "wow, my girlfriend is a 10!"  How many times have posters here told newbies (and others) to stop thinking with their little heads and use the brain with which they've been supplied?  In every other post he bangs on about how she's using him for shopping and so on - can't he see that this attitude won't change?

I don't care if this girl is hot enough to be Miss Porn Universe - dump her NOW!!!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on July 12, 2017, 07:57:50 PM


I don't care if this girl is hot enough to be Miss Porn Universe - dump her NOW!!!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

Yeah-- how hard can it be for him to create another imaginary "girlfriend" ? :deadhorse: :wallbash:

I have to say-- I am amazed that an inflatable could actually go shopping ! :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 12, 2017, 09:23:45 PM

I don't care if this girl is hot enough to be Miss Porn Universe - dump her NOW!!!

But he should first provide her contact info to other interested guys here.

And URL of performances to all.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 12, 2017, 09:26:07 PM
She can find plenty of UM her age who are better looking than you, and better in bed. 

Hey . . . that hurts !!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 12, 2017, 10:44:35 PM
Well, reality is not always pleasant.

I certainly don't wish Trenchcoat any harm, but what he describes just screams "arrangement".

I know a UW here, met her through the community, who married a WM.  She did so to get residency.  He had an excellent job, and is a good guy.  She got pregnant, and while pregnant, forged his signature on a visa application for her mother (required as one must show support means for visitors from certain countries).  As soon as her mother arrived, she threw her husband out and demanded a divorce.  She demanded he buy her a property, which he did.  She wanted maintenance for their daughter, but no visitation for him.  Of course, she was in Canada, so he has generous visitation, which irks her to no end, even though she didn't want the child, only the income the child brings her, and is an indifferent mother.  Her mother is still here, as she is from the war zone, and has claimed refugee status.  The UW has made that man's life a living hell, and he still does not understand what really happened, that she never had an intention of building a life with him.  He, too, assumed they had "chemistry", probably still does.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 12, 2017, 11:07:20 PM
Boethius has a certain view of FSU women who use the term "real man". I don't particularly agree with her views ...

I'd point out that

1/ She is a women

2/ Her heritage is FSU

3/ Boethius LIVED in Ukraine ..

I know who's views I'd rather trust ... ;)

BTW, I don't think the thread is 'silly' ...we have a member who seems hell-bent on throwing money on a 'relationship' that has trainwreck written all over it ... 

The fact that the member is stubborn in defending warnings may actually mean he won't be a poster who disappears when the warnings become reality.

In the meantime, he is better prepared and will learn much, possibly have a good time ( sometimes) while it lasts and he is  - at least - still getting on that plane.

Personally, I'd rather read his story - and other TRs - than some of the political crap ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 13, 2017, 01:28:10 AM
Well, reality is not always pleasant.

I certainly don't wish Trenchcoat any harm, but what he describes just screams "arrangement".

I know a UW here, met her through the community, who married a WM.  She did so to get residency.  He had an excellent job, and is a good guy.  She got pregnant, and while pregnant, forged his signature on a visa application for her mother (required as one must show support means for visitors from certain countries).  As soon as her mother arrived, she threw her husband out and demanded a divorce.  She demanded he buy her a property, which he did.  She wanted maintenance for their daughter, but no visitation for him.  Of course, she was in Canada, so he has generous visitation, which irks her to no end, even though she didn't want the child, only the income the child brings her, and is an indifferent mother.  Her mother is still here, as she is from the war zone, and has claimed refugee status.  The UW has made that man's life a living hell, and he still does not understand what really happened, that she never had an intention of building a life with him.  He, too, assumed they had "chemistry", probably still does.

So the good job meant she saw him as a target for generous child support payments, though I guess he at least got a child out of the debacle unlike the OP of this original thread. Kind of shows how warped she is that she seems to expect child maintenance payments but does not want him to have access. This is what I mean when I point to the uncaring attitude of FSW that use men for immigration, holidays or whatever then toss them aside without even thinking of how what they are doing is affecting them.

Well there was no formal agreement to an arrangement of she gives me this I give her that. Possibly it is an arrangement of how she might want things to work in her head - and to that end it doesn't look to do me any good to go down the path she wants to. I am certainly not going to bring her into the UK not even on a short stay. It will have to be everything done in Ukraine or not at all.

I do also apologize Boethius if I got a bit carried away in our discussions in other threads I was perhaps a bit too quick to judge. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 13, 2017, 01:33:43 AM
This is what I can't figure out.  Trenchcoat has enumerated one red flag after another, and yet he still seems to be in this post-coital daze of "wow, my girlfriend is a 10!"  How many times have posters here told newbies (and others) to stop thinking with their little heads and use the brain with which they've been supplied?  In every other post he bangs on about how she's using him for shopping and so on - can't he see that this attitude won't change?

I don't care if this girl is hot enough to be Miss Porn Universe - dump her NOW!!!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

The red flags were not really there to start with or were not so apparent - namely that she wants into the UK, she is against me going to see her in her home city & shopaholic. The shop problem came forward a bit on the first visit but I thought we reached an agreement on it to keep it slow but steady. I think I have gained experience from this though even though it was more costly than I would have liked and enjoyed myself along the way.

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 13, 2017, 01:58:53 AM
Thanks Moby :D

I know some of my theories have been wrong at times on here as I feel my way around the FSU dating scene, but to be honest there are other members that have fouled up too I remember back last year when Guppy Captain was using Mordinson for the second time and once again it not working out for him. I recall the first time he ended up taking girl to Budapest on holiday and it then not working out. For sure Holidays don't really seem to be the way to go when getting into a relationship with a FSW and best avoided, I enjoyed my time on holiday but in so far as building upon the relationship I think it did nothing on that.

I'm not though for quitting on this venture, the way I see it the more experience both on here and in the field the more able I become at this. The FSU dating scene seems to evolve over time and what worked well several years ago can be a minefield of scammers several years later. Part of the reason I don't mind posting about my trials & tribulations on here apart from seeking help for myself is to aid other in this journey so they are not easy game for women that have ideas other than meeting a guy to be with. The way I see it is I try to be decent myself in dealing with others so why should other decent guys and I believe most are that are genuinely seeking a foreign wife be done over by the unscrupulous its just not nice to do to anyone.

Anyway, I am not too bothered with giving girl the push in any haste, I kind of care about her and have affection towards her even though I accept it is not at the moment looking good. For what its worth there was some small green flags along the way and these seemed genuine but I think we have moved from that and now in a position where I am too wary to follow what she wants.

So working on the assumption that she will continue to stubbornly move from her position which she has done so far. I will spend the next few months working on my next attempt at this properly, taking in lodgers into my home so I have an independent source of income so I can go out to FSU countries and date as the natives do, make out it is a permanent relocation to avoid immigration scammers and get access to lot of women to date and have a comfortable life with out there for a while before I come back with them to UK when I am sure they are sound enough to do so. For me the thought of having hours of my time each week from the UK taken up with messaging those that may turn out to be interested in something other than a real relationship is time I can do without being wasted. The way I see it is that if they are straight up they will turn up for a meeting or not at all which will suit me fine.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 13, 2017, 11:45:10 AM
So the good job meant she saw him as a target for generous child support payments, though I guess he at least got a child out of the debacle unlike the OP of this original thread. Kind of shows how warped she is that she seems to expect child maintenance payments but does not want him to have access. This is what I mean when I point to the uncaring attitude of FSW that use men for immigration, holidays or whatever then toss them aside without even thinking of how what they are doing is affecting them.

For her, the child was just a way to secure a steady source of income.  That could happen with WW as well, but most educated WM marry WW with their own careers, so the effect is somewhat ameliorated.

This type of behaviour was common in Soviet times as well,  Because successive Ukrainian governments failed to create a new identity for Ukrainians after the collapse of the USSR, those behaviours have continued.  Just the targets have changed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 13, 2017, 05:05:29 PM

Boethius, you were saying in the original part of this this thread that a girl may have hang ups about visiting her home city beaus of gossip as everyone knows everyone. Do you think this might be the case with my girl? Although we have stated to each other our relationship is serious we have only met up twice for a week together at a time. And Skype in between. Contact online first occurred about six months ago. We do not live in together with each other so perhaps we aren't in a permanent relationship. I would want to live in with her but she seems to be reluctant for this to happen in her home city. I know second girl I met in her home city last year in Nikolaev did not want to meet me in the hotel restaurant as locals would know. (Asking hear so as to not intrude on other thread)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 13, 2017, 06:14:49 PM
It likely is one of three things:

1.  She does not want gossip.  Westerners don't understand how common this is, and how connected people there are.   
2.  She is embarrassed by her living conditions.
3.  She has a boyfriend.  He may even know about you, but it's related to 1.

I would hazard a guess it is #1, and it is no big deal, really, until couples are marrying.  It is not an indication of a scam.  Her choosing someone so much older (if she's under 25) and, if what you say is accurate, disparate looks wise, is far more of an issue.  The spending is also somewhat of an issue, because it reveals a particular mindset, coupled with manipulation (If you're a "real man" . . . ).  Meeting in a woman's home city generally is probably less of an issue for women over 30. 

You have stated this girl is adamant about settling in the UK.  She probably chose you partly because you are in the UK, so you are sort of changing the ground rules on her. 

Kherson is not somewhere you would want to live. If you are going to live in Ukraine, live in Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, or L'viv.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 13, 2017, 06:38:57 PM
The FSU dating scene seems to evolve over time and what worked well several years ago can be a minefield of scammers several years later.


No, I don't think that is accurate.  The number of scammers and the scams they run, are always the same. 



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 13, 2017, 07:54:36 PM
The red flags were not really there to start with or were not so apparent - namely that she wants into the UK, she is against me going to see her in her home city & shopaholic. The shop problem came forward a bit on the first visit but I thought we reached an agreement on it to keep it slow but steady.

Fine - but why are you still with her when this has become such an issue?  As the Americans on here would say: "Dump her sorry ass!"

I think I have gained experience from this though even though it was more costly than I would have liked and enjoyed myself along the way.

Stop emphasising the money issues!  Everyone who has read your posts knows that you're a cheap sod - you don't have to keep bringing it up.  The enjoyment factor is what is preventing you from moving on with your life - dump this girl, and find someone else to enjoy life with.  Who knows, you might actually find someone who really DOES see you as more than a walking credit card.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on July 13, 2017, 11:13:10 PM
Kiwi,

If he is a walking credit card, I'm sure he walks with a cane.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 14, 2017, 02:59:32 AM
It likely is one of three things:

1.  She does not want gossip.  Westerners don't understand how common this is, and how connected people there are.   
2.  She is embarrassed by her living conditions.
3.  She has a boyfriend.  He may even know about you, but it's related to 1.

I would hazard a guess it is #1, and it is no big deal, really, until couples are marrying.  It is not an indication of a scam.  Her choosing someone so much older (if she's under 25) and, if what you say is accurate, disparate looks wise, is far more of an issue.  The spending is also somewhat of an issue, because it reveals a particular mindset, coupled with manipulation (If you're a "real man" . . . ).  Meeting in a woman's home city generally is probably less of an issue for women over 30. 

You have stated this girl is adamant about settling in the UK.  She probably chose you partly because you are in the UK, so you are sort of changing the ground rules on her. 

Kherson is not somewhere you would want to live. If you are going to live in Ukraine, live in Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, or L'viv.

Thanks Boethius I think you could be right here in it being number 1. Also I think some of number 2 also, when I was with her in Kiev we were eating in an area with concrete residential block behind, I made some comment, not bad but in reference to the old style soviet era of the blocks. Anyway it seemed to me at least that she looked a little queasy when mentioning this and it was then I thought its probably the exact same type of building she lives in - it does not matter to me where she lives as I am into her, living locations at any rate can be changed were we to get any deeper into relationship.

For me I couldn't care less what people gossip about but for her it may well be different, they have all that peculiarity over hotels after all. It must be a strong force in her mind like the refusal to do hotel as she seems very opposed to me going and for me I couldn't fathom why I thought it would be a perfectly natural thing to do particularly after a couple of destinations away.

I got to say though I am still cautious, no I don't think she is part of any organised scam operation the way she goes about stuff is not like that - for example she does not ask to keep receipts to stuff bought. Could she just be interested in immigration scam - maybe, at this point its difficult to tell how much she is into me set against how much into coming to UK. I just want to make sure she is into me and I'm not going to be used as a mule. Her seemingly uncaring nature to spending my money on holiday did not give me cause for optimism - would she be equally uncaring about using me for immigration then ditching me and upgrading as some see it - possibly I wonder.

Hence why I want to live in Ukraine with her to really get to know her out of the week's meet up here and there. I think us living together in a domestic situation would suit us best. This looks unlikely though if what you suggest is the case. I don't think she has a boyfriend there, there is nothing on her social media, vk and it looks like she has started that some time ago. She does not know I know of her vk page though I think in this day and age its fair to assume that she would have thought that I might find it and if had a bf could sanitize it for purpose. She has stated to me she does not have a bf in the past and her reply seemed genuine as far as I could tell anyway.

Anyway, so my thought on this at the moment are either live in Kherson in the future for a short while almost undercover as a English Language Teacher and rent out a separate apartment which she justs visits for 'tuition' ;D or ask her to live with me in a nearby city live Nikolaev or Odessa but this would of course entail her giving up her job so I'm not sure she would go for that. I 'm thinking though at any rate it may be worth messaging her and finding out if rumour, gossip, reputation is the reason behind it all, what do you think as the way forward on this?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 14, 2017, 10:00:30 AM

 live in Kherson in the future for a short while almost undercover as a English Language Teacher

This idea of teaching English comes up frequently on this forum.

But there are only 1 out of 100 of us who could actually teach English.

Many assume that if you grew up with a language, you can teach it.
Totally false.

While we may speak and write a language fairly correctly . . . we can in no way explain to a questioner why we are using certain words in certain places as opposed to other words or forms of a word.

The most we can hope for is that we can talk with those who are learning and read to them . . . just so they can become more accustomed to hearing our language and pick up pronunciation knowledge.

But actually teaching English . . . no way.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 14, 2017, 11:39:46 AM
I am certainly not going to bring her into the UK not even on a short stay. It will have to be everything done in Ukraine or not at all.

I was perhaps a bit too quick to judge.

I didn't read everything, I don't have the time or the interest to watch
soap opera's either.

Trench, use the brain above your shoulders and not the one in your Willie.
My advice is that if you've found a girl who you wouldn't bring home to ole
Blighty or anywhere else on the planet then she's not a keeper.

If she's not a keeper, then dump her and move on. The sooner you do the
sooner she can find her true love and the sooner you can find the Future
Mrs Trenchie.

I would take Angel Eyes anyplace, anytime, anywhere, with pride and I trust
her in any situation. She might not know a thing about guns, but if I were in
a wild west gunfight and she was at my side, I know for sure that she would
be screaming like the Indians at Little Bighorn and that the lead would be flying.

If you don't absolutely, positively and completely trust this girl with no reservations
inside and out then she isn't the girl for you. Dump her and go find your gunfighter. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 14, 2017, 12:03:20 PM
This idea of teaching English comes up frequently on this forum.

But there are only 1 out of 100 of us who could actually teach English.

Many assume that if you grew up with a language, you can teach it.
Totally false.

While we may speak and write a language fairly correctly . . . we can in no way explain to a questioner why we are using certain words in certain places as opposed to other words or forms of a word.

The most we can hope for is that we can talk with those who are learning and read to them . . . just so they can become more accustomed to hearing our language and pick up pronunciation knowledge.

But actually teaching English . . . no way.



I know Ecocks (I probably got his name wrong) made a few shekels teaching
business English to businessmen in Ukraine. If I were going to try teaching
English (which I'm not going to do). I would try something like that with a
couple of English teachers for backup.

Set them up in sales situations where the customer was English speaking and
coach them on how to improve. That way I was primarily teaching them something
that I consider myself a professional at, and using some real English teachers for
their expertise.

The real English teachers can teach them how to diagram a sentence and how,
where, when and why we use articles in a sentence (which Russians find difficult
to understand) and I could work on helping them polish up their proposals, sales 
presentations, pronunciation and business to business acumen. 99% of the
Russian English teachers have outrageous accents, so maybe I would add a
speech therapist to help them pronounce words correctly. Where their teeth
and lips go when they say Vodka and not Wodka and how to say the short i
like in Bill instead of Beeel. 

That's what I would do if I had any interest in trying to teach in the FSU. 

edit to add.

There is a Russian woman Anastasia Ash that used to come here to the
forum that actually doesn't have a Russian accent. If I were going to do
something like this I would definitely pick her brain and Ecocks.

What you want is to offer something that they actually need. English teachers
in the FSU are a dime a dozen and that's how they are paid too. You need to
offer something that is rare, valuable and difficult to find in order to make
more than a few kopecks.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 14, 2017, 02:12:49 PM
For me I couldn't care less what people gossip about but for her it may well be different, they have all that peculiarity over hotels after all. It must be a strong force in her mind like the refusal to do hotel as she seems very opposed to me going and for me I couldn't fathom why I thought it would be a perfectly natural thing to do particularly after a couple of destinations away.

It is very different. 

Quote
I got to say though I am still cautious, no I don't think she is part of any organised scam operation the way she goes about stuff is not like that - for example she does not ask to keep receipts to stuff bought. Could she just be interested in immigration scam - maybe, at this point its difficult to tell how much she is into me set against how much into coming to UK. I just want to make sure she is into me and I'm not going to be used as a mule. Her seemingly uncaring nature to spending my money on holiday did not give me cause for optimism - would she be equally uncaring about using me for immigration then ditching me and upgrading as some see it - possibly I wonder.

I have no doubt she is not part of an "organized" scam.  But she may sell some of the clothes if she needs cash - she would sell them at a market, for less than you paid for them.  Very common in Ukraine. 

Quote
Hence why I want to live in Ukraine with her to really get to know her out of the week's meet up here and there. I think us living together in a domestic situation would suit us best. This looks unlikely though if what you suggest is the case. I don't think she has a boyfriend there, there is nothing on her social media, vk and it looks like she has started that some time ago. She does not know I know of her vk page though I think in this day and age its fair to assume that she would have thought that I might find it and if had a bf could sanitize it for purpose. She has stated to me she does not have a bf in the past and her reply seemed genuine as far as I could tell anyway.

Women there know WM check their online profiles, so that means nothing. 

If this girl is intent on scamming you, living in Kherson is not going to make a difference.  These types of scams have been going on for over half a century in Ukraine.  In Soviet times, certain cities were closed, meaning one required a residence permit (propiska) to live there.  Moscow, Leningrad, Kyiv, were all closed cities.  I knew a lot of men who were targeted by women from smaller cities for marriage.  My husband told one acquaintance outright that his then girlfriend was targeting him for a propiska (she was from Kherson, coincidentally).  The friend didn't listen.  He didn't give her a propiska until after their child was born.  The day after receiving her propiska, his loving wife threw him out of his apartment.  He ended up being saved only because he had a relative with good connections who quietly took the wife aside and told her to get out of the district they lived in, for if he saw her there, he'd have her propiska pulled and she'd be on the next train to Kherson. It's not the only story I know, I know dozens like this.  The point?  If a native couldn't see this, what makes you think you will?

We don't know the girl, so we can't tell you what to do.  That's for you to decide.  But Bill is right, as are others who have posted.  If you can't trust this girl with your life, then she is not the one for you.  Deep down, if you listen to your instincts, they will give you the answer.

Quote
Anyway, so my thought on this at the moment are either live in Kherson in the future for a short while almost undercover as a English Language Teacher and rent out a separate apartment which she justs visits for 'tuition' ;D or ask her to live with me in a nearby city live Nikolaev or Odessa but this would of course entail her giving up her job so I'm not sure she would go for that. I 'm thinking though at any rate it may be worth messaging her and finding out if rumour, gossip, reputation is the reason behind it all, what do you think as the way forward on this?

See above.  You will not be able to support yourself comfortably teaching English in Kherson.  It's a poor region of a poor country.  You'd have better luck in one of the cities I listed.  And, you won't be able to live "undercover" in Kherson.  It's population is under 400,000.  Someone your girl knows will see her with you, and soon, everyone will know.  That's the way it is in Ukraine.  She may or may not tell  you this, difficult to say, but it's something to which, for the most part, Westerners are oblivious.  Nevertheless, if this is what you want to do, I suggest you save enough money to be able to support yourself comfortably in Ukraine for three to six months, and live there for that period.  You can contact Stirlitz or Mila to help you find a furnished apartment to rent.  Tell her you have no intention of moving back to the West, and you'll refurnish the apartment when you get more money, and see if she is interested in you when you have the same resources and economic opportunities as a typical UM.  My hunch is the answer will be "no".

If you don't have trust, then you can't have a real relationship. 

I know Ecocks (I probably got his name wrong) made a few shekels teaching business English to businessmen in Ukraine. If I were going to try teaching English (which I'm not going to do). I would try something like that with a couple of English teachers for backup.

But Ed was a retired college professor.  He'd spent his life teaching, so he understood how to teach.  That is the difference. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 14, 2017, 02:19:55 PM
There are lots of ways, I assume, to protect your home from matrimonial claims.  I know there are ways to do this in Canada.  Put it in joint tenancy with your parents with some form of consideration.  Put it in a trust. 

Go see a lawyer to determine what structures can be put in place to protect your assets before you marry.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 14, 2017, 02:38:46 PM
But Ed was a retired college professor.  He'd spent his life teaching, so he understood how to teach.  That is the difference.


I was speaking for myself, how I would do it if it were me, not how somebody
else should do it.

I've taught more sales people how to be sales people than I could list.
I've ridden with them, went on calls with them, I've recruited them right
out of college and taught them everything they knew. I've made presentations
on salesmanship, prospecting and many other aspects of selling to beginners
and journeymen alike.

I've helped others map out their careers, how to work their territory, find leads
and pursue leads and a thousand other aspects of selling. I've developed tests
to measure a salesperson's strengths and weaknesses and helped them develop
plans to improve both. I could certainly do it, but I don't have the desire.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 14, 2017, 07:50:30 PM
See above.  You will not be able to support yourself comfortably teaching English in Kherson.  It's a poor region of a poor country.  You'd have better luck in one of the cities I listed.  And, you won't be able to live "undercover" in Kherson.  It's population is under 400,000.  Someone your girl knows will see her with you, and soon, everyone will know.  That's the way it is in Ukraine.  She may or may not tell  you this, difficult to say, but it's something to which, for the most part, Westerners are oblivious.  Nevertheless, if this is what you want to do, I suggest you save enough money to be able to support yourself comfortably in Ukraine for three to six months, and live there for that period.  You can contact Stirlitz or Mila to help you find a furnished apartment to rent.  Tell her you have no intention of moving back to the West, and you'll refurnish the apartment when you get more money, and see if she is interested in you when you have the same resources and economic opportunities as a typical UM.  My hunch is the answer will be "no".

If you don't have trust, then you can't have a real relationship.

In the immediate town where I live the population is around 150,000 yet I wouldn't say everyone knows everyone and I'm sure I can go out shopping many a time without bumping into anyone I know or who knows me. Some people will come from a nearby town but its population is just 185,000 approx. I'm not sure with population of around/under 400,000 in Kherson how everyone knows everyone - surely many can walk around with no-one knowing who they are or sticking out much. When I was in Nikolaev no one seemed to take any particular interest in me being not of the region that I could notice at least anyway. When I say undercover my thought is to set myself up as an English Teacher but this may be more of a front than anything just so girl can say she is visiting me for English lessons while in reality behind closed doors other lessons are in progress :D To everyone around it will make perfect sense that she is visiting a native English guy to learn English. Though I still can't believe that everyone is such a busybody in Kherson like the busybodies you get in a small English village that I would have to go to these lengths to do this. At any rate I would use the money from renting out my place back home to lodgers to pay my bills, if any income came in from English Teaching it would be additional to what I need, I would ensure I have savings too to fall back on.

Long term, my thought has always been is that if I can provide the accommodation, whether I am renting or buy a place whether in Ukraine or UK girl would be way better of than she presently is- she could save or spend any money she brought in as she would have no accommodation costs to worry about or fear of not meeting accommodation payments. Talking to girl of recent though and she appears adamant she will only live in UK that I will not be visiting her in Kherson, lol. This is funny since she has no way of paying for travel/meeting documentation requirements to UK or any control of me being able to just buy a ticket to Kherson and hop on a plane in the blink of an eye. She has an managerial edge to her and wants to determine the situation despite having no power over it, lol. For me though, her trying to dictate terms without any acceptance of what I want is just not happening and makes me wary.

Your last sentence intrigues me Boethius as if a girl or any girl is going with me because of lifestyle I can offer her in UK how can I tell she will continue to do decent by me once in UK? On what basis is she with me other than immigration? Once that is fulfilled what reason has she to continue to be with me? My thought as above is that if I could provide an apartment without her having to pay accommodation costs and furnish it nicely then surely this is a big improvement over her present lot. Yet it appears that his is not a solution that is satisfactory for her and she wants way more in moving to the UK. Yet from where she's at in having to earn very low pay and pay for an apartment it surely is a situation she would want to move from in a matter of haste I would have thought to anything better?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 14, 2017, 08:18:01 PM
There are lots of ways, I assume, to protect your home from matrimonial claims.  I know there are ways to do this in Canada.  Put it in joint tenancy with your parents with some form of consideration.  Put it in a trust. 

Go see a lawyer to determine what structures can be put in place to protect your assets before you marry.

Trusts in UK don't offer full proof protection in UK divorce courts - some may offer a measure of protection but you have to disclose existence as a beneficiary of a trust to the divorce courts and if there is not much in the way of assets at hand outside the trust then the courts are likely to move to raiding your trust particularly if it looks like you are the sole beneficiary of the trust, that it has been specifically set up to protect your assets in marriage. So in UK it can't be counted on to help avoid a big payout. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 14, 2017, 08:46:53 PM
In the immediate town where I live the population is around 150,000

This is Ukraine not Blighty. Everyone in Ukraine goes out walking
just to walk around and socialize. They walk to do everything.
They go food shopping several times per week.

Your experience in the UK is irrelevant to Ukraine. There isn't
a babushka network in the UK either, but in Ukraine there is.

Boe is 100% correct and you are 100% wrong.



Your last sentence intrigues me Boethius as if a girl or any girl is going with me because of lifestyle I can offer her in UK how can I tell she will continue to do decent by me once in UK?

You have to win her heart. You must have complete trust in her
and she in you. Otherwise, dump her and move on.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 14, 2017, 10:30:15 PM
This idea of teaching English comes up frequently on this forum.

But there are only 1 out of 100 of us who could actually teach English.

Many assume that if you grew up with a language, you can teach it.
Totally false.

While we may speak and write a language fairly correctly . . . we can in no way explain to a questioner why we are using certain words in certain places as opposed to other words or forms of a word.

The most we can hope for is that we can talk with those who are learning and read to them . . . just so they can become more accustomed to hearing our language and pick up pronunciation knowledge.

But actually teaching English . . . no way.

Totally, agree !

I'm constantly asked by English Schools in Sochi to come and be a guest speaker - which I'm happy to do - but, despite learning Latin at school and that really helped with languages - as did learning some Greek -in Cyprus - teaching is NOT for me...

I  DO get asked why we say certain phrases or why we break grammar rules and I'm simply don't know / remember English grammar well enough to explain.

'Bounder' - a Canadian - has come to Moscow - been on courses to teach English - and seems to be making a go of life there. The first few months were not easy for him.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 15, 2017, 12:09:31 AM
This is Ukraine not Blighty. Everyone in Ukraine goes out walking
just to walk around and socialize. They walk to do everything.
They go food shopping several times per week.

Your experience in the UK is irrelevant to Ukraine. There isn't
a babushka network in the UK either, but in Ukraine there is.

Boe is 100% correct and you are 100% wrong.



You have to win her heart. You must have complete trust in her
and she in you. Otherwise, dump her and move on.

Oh I see, well it can still exist in UK but tends to be villages not really towns or cities. I see what you mean though, people do walk/use public transport a lot in Ukraine so your no doubt right in it having a lot more scope.

Would my front as an English Language Teacher for cover not be convincing to avoid wagging tongues? Often these front situations can be used to effectively deter speculation and it the only way I can think of to deal with this. If for example I was to go to a Ukrainian town/city to teach English anyway before I've met any girl that is what the locals would then take me for, would it not. I could then date one of my students say on the quiet and locals would be oblivious to it I assume.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on July 15, 2017, 01:23:34 AM
I think you're right Moby, not for me to get married at least not for the time being. I have a few issues with girl at present mainly:

1). She seems to be a Shopaholic.

2). Disagreement between us on where to be together and neither of us has so far budged, she wants UK I am wary and suggest elsewhere.


Even if you aren't looking for marriage but want a friends with benefits relationship, I don't see your relationship lasting too much longer. You want her to put out but you don't want to put out. She's probably exploring options by now and would dump you if the right guy came along. He doesn't have to be a good guy, he needs to just be the right guy.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 15, 2017, 03:13:46 AM
'Bounder' - a Canadian - has come to Moscow - been on courses to teach English - and seems to be making a go of life there. The first few months were not easy for him.

I think too that Bounder made the best move, living native seems the best way to go. If I need to make another attempt at this I will prepare well and do that. All this messaging back and forth just seems a waste of time, too much garbage to have to sift through. The only thing I would say of Bounder is that he would have been better securing himself a source of income before he went out there. I know he said he had some savings but it would have made life much easier for him. That and though Moscow is a fair and fine city it is an expensive one so perhaps a cheaper alternative. Also, I am not sure if Bounder is still among us, he has not posted on this forum for several months. The last I heard he met someone that was looking promising but he seemed a bit under pressure economically.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 15, 2017, 10:39:01 AM
In the immediate town where I live the population is around 150,000 yet I wouldn't say everyone knows everyone and I'm sure I can go out shopping many a time without bumping into anyone I know or who knows me. Some people will come from a nearby town but its population is just 185,000 approx. I'm not sure with population of around/under 400,000 in Kherson how everyone knows everyone - surely many can walk around with no-one knowing who they are or sticking out much.

Kherson is not an English village.  It is in Ukraine, and its inhabitants have a Slavic mentality.

How many English families in your village live on top of one another, with four generations (often) sharing a two room apartment?

Why are you asking for this information if you doubt it?

Quote
When I was in Nikolaev no one seemed to take any particular interest in me being not of the region that I could notice at least anyway. When I say undercover my thought is to set myself up as an English Teacher but this may be more of a front than anything just so girl can say she is visiting me for English lessons while in reality behind closed doors other lessons are in progress :D To everyone around it will make perfect sense that she is visiting a native English guy to learn English.

People there aren't stupid.  They are going to figure it out, and quickly, at that.

Quote
Though I still can't believe that everyone is such a busybody in Kherson

It's not being a busybody in their culture.  In fact, in Soviet times, it was encouraged, even rewarded.

Quote
Long term, my thought has always been is that if I can provide the accommodation, whether I am renting or buy a place whether in Ukraine or UK girl would be way better of than she presently is- she could save or spend any money she brought in as she would have no accommodation costs to worry about or fear of not meeting accommodation payments. Talking to girl of recent though and she appears adamant she will only live in UK that I will not be visiting her in Kherson, lol. This is funny since she has no way of paying for travel/meeting documentation requirements to UK or any control of me being able to just buy a ticket to Kherson and hop on a plane in the blink of an eye. She has an managerial edge to her and wants to determine the situation despite having no power over it, lol. For me though, her trying to dictate terms without any acceptance of what I want is just not happening and makes me wary.

You are saving her nothing by moving to Kherson.  Housing is not the expense it is in the West. Yes, she can't stop you from moving, but she can refuse to see you.

Quote
Your last sentence intrigues me Boethius as if a girl or any girl is going with me because of lifestyle I can offer her in UK how can I tell she will continue to do decent by me once in UK? On what basis is she with me other than immigration? Once that is fulfilled what reason has she to continue to be with me? My thought as above is that if I could provide an apartment without her having to pay accommodation costs and furnish it nicely then surely this is a big improvement over her present lot. Yet it appears that his is not a solution that is satisfactory for her and she wants way more in moving to the UK. Yet from where she's at in having to earn very low pay and pay for an apartment it surely is a situation she would want to move from in a matter of haste I would have thought to anything better?

You can't know.  But a girl that much younger than you has chosen you because you provide her the opportunity of a lifestyle she can't have with a UM.  She is using what she has (lbeauty) to better her station in life, just as you are using what you have (providing economic stability) to obtain a girl you could not in the West.

Life comes with no guarantees.  If you can't live with this, then FSUW or, for that matter, relationships in general, are not for you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 15, 2017, 11:13:54 AM
Trusts in UK don't offer full proof protection in UK divorce courts - some may offer a measure of protection but you have to disclose existence as a beneficiary of a trust to the divorce courts and if there is not much in the way of assets at hand outside the trust then the courts are likely to move to raiding your trust particularly if it looks like you are the sole beneficiary of the trust, that it has been specifically set up to protect your assets in marriage. So in UK it can't be counted on to help avoid a big payout.

I used it as an example.  As you are not yet married, I suspect there are things you can do to protect your home.  Don't be a cheapskate - go see the best matrimonial lawyer in your area and ask how you can protect yourself.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Muzh on July 15, 2017, 12:09:37 PM
I used it as an example.  As you are not yet married, I suspect there are things you can do to protect your home.  Don't be a cheapskate - go see the best matrimonial lawyer in your area and ask how you can protect yourself.


He is talking about divorce and he is not married yet?  :-\


Self-fullfilling profecy.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 15, 2017, 12:18:18 PM
I don't think there is anything wrong with protecting your pre exsiting assets as much as possible. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 15, 2017, 01:31:07 PM
Kherson is not an English village.  It is in Ukraine, and its inhabitants have a Slavic mentality.

How many English families in your village live on top of one another, with four generations (often) sharing a two room apartment?

Why are you asking for this information if you doubt it?

People there aren't stupid.  They are going to figure it out, and quickly, at that.

It's not being a busybody in their culture.  In fact, in Soviet times, it was encouraged, even rewarded.

You are saving her nothing by moving to Kherson.  Housing is not the expense it is in the West. Yes, she can't stop you from moving, but she can refuse to see you.

You can't know.  But a girl that much younger than you has chosen you because you provide her the opportunity of a lifestyle she can't have with a UM.  She is using what she has (lbeauty) to better her station in life, just as you are using what you have (providing economic stability) to obtain a girl you could not in the West.

Life comes with no guarantees.  If you can't live with this, then FSUW or, for that matter, relationships in general, are not for you.

OMG Boethius, sounds like the worst case of busybodyness I have heard off, lol. Well I've studied Soviet history so know that there was apparently a lot of informanting etc as you suggest back then but I had no idea it went into personal relationships and even to this day. Truely shocking  :o

Well I don't know what to do. She just takes the same line that she expects visit next to UK and me to buy her stuff. She won't budge, is that the Slavic mentality? Will pretty much all girls out there be that stubborn and just want me to do the visit/move to UK Deal straight off? Just seems so bizarre to me that I have supposedly got the better hand but apparently can't be in control  :-\
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on July 15, 2017, 01:34:49 PM
Trench, listen to those that have FSU spouses. They have the experience. Your thought process is fu***d up. I just returned from a week long trip to Nikolaev visiting the girl I am pursuing. We went to Kherson to visit for a day. Neither Nikolaev nor Kherson is a place I would want to live in for more than a few weeks. Is your girl truly worth making the sacrifice of living there for? You canít also think about all the negative things such as you being a mule, etc. If she is causing you to have all these thoughts (in addition to you being who you are), move on to someone else. If you insist on living there and end up in a poor situation, you are going to end up resenting her. That is no way to live.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 15, 2017, 02:52:09 PM
Trench, listen to those that have FSU spouses. They have the experience. Your thought process is fu***d up. I just returned from a week long trip to Nikolaev visiting the girl I am pursuing. We went to Kherson to visit for a day. Neither Nikolaev nor Kherson is a place I would want to live in for more than a few weeks. Is your girl truly worth making the sacrifice of living there for? You canít also think about all the negative things such as you being a mule, etc. If she is causing you to have all these thoughts (in addition to you being who you are), move on to someone else. If you insist on living there and end up in a poor situation, you are going to end up resenting her. That is no way to live.

Good to see you back on here Wall, wondered where you had got too :D So what about you? you're girl must be at about the same stage of wanting to visit the US you've known her for about as long as mine, visit wise also. As you know I've been to Nikolaev and know its pretty sedate, kind of Truman Show meets Groundhog Day i.e like the same day replaying over and over again. I know there is not much there and would have to busy myself on something. Nikolaev town centre is pleasant enough even is much isn't happening, the outskirts are urban but you get used to it I find. Kherson I have not been but can imagine it would not hold interest for long so again using oneself is no doubt important. I don't think I would be in a real poor situation if I can secure an independent income. In any case I am not proposing to live their indefinitely just long enough to really get to know the girl. To me is seems silly that there is this real big uproar that I can't do this.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on July 15, 2017, 04:01:07 PM
Good to see you back on here Wall, wondered where you had got too :D So what about you? you're girl must be at about the same stage of wanting to visit the US you've known her for about as long as mine, visit wise also. As you know I've been to Nikolaev and know its pretty sedate, kind of Truman Show meets Groundhog Day i.e like the same day replaying over and over again. I know there is not much there and would have to busy myself on something. Nikolaev town centre is pleasant enough even is much isn't happening, the outskirts are urban but you get used to it I find. Kherson I have not been but can imagine it would not hold interest for long so again using oneself is no doubt important. I don't think I would be in a real poor situation if I can secure an independent income. In any case I am not proposing to live their indefinitely just long enough to really get to know the girl. To me is seems silly that there is this real big uproar that I can't do this.


It isn't that we don't think you can do it, it is we think you shouldn't do it. Not for this girl. Of course, I find it funny that the most risk adverse, scam fearing guy in history, is involved with an obvious scammer. My guess, he has a local guy who is living in the UK and is looking for a mule to get her there. For god sake, listen to Bill and Boe. We do not want to see your trainwreck actually happen...


HDL
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 15, 2017, 04:42:58 PM

It isn't that we don't think you can do it, it is we think you shouldn't do it. Not for this girl. Of course, I find it funny that the most risk adverse, scam fearing guy in history, is involved with an obvious scammer. My guess, he has a local guy who is living in the UK and is looking for a mule to get her there. For god sake, listen to Bill and Boe. We do not want to see your trainwreck actually happen...

HDL

Why do you think that?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on July 15, 2017, 05:02:07 PM
Why do you think that?


Why do I think that?


1) She found you, therefore its possible that she wanted a UK citizen. Specifically.
2) She doesn't want you in her city
3) She has milked two vacations out of you and is now upping her game to clothing.
    3a) If you have ever been in a Soviet style apartment, you would know the lack of closet space, so how many             clothes does she need or have room for?
4) I (any several others here) have been where you are. We recognize the pattern
5) You are making excuses to keep a bad situation going, as you still think you want to "co-habituate" with her.


If you are cool having an "arrangement" with this girl, OK. But she is pushing to be imported to specifically the UK. If she was in this for YOU, she wouldn't care what country you lived in. Just something for you to think about.


HDL.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on July 15, 2017, 05:11:37 PM
you're girl must be at about the same stage of wanting to visit the US you've known her for about as long as mine, visit wise also.

She has not yet asked to visit US. Even if she wants to, she canít get a tourist visa. I am nowhere near asking her to marry me. We are just enjoying ourselves and getting to know each other. I will go back in September. The uproar is more about your girl and less about you living there. She wants to live in UK which is fine but should that be a deal breaker? And she is a shopaholic according to you. She is bad news.

HDL is right. If she truly is in this for you, she won't care where she lives.
Stop thinking with the little head. ;D You are trying to justify bad choices.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on July 15, 2017, 05:53:05 PM

Why do I think that?


1) She found you, therefore its possible that she wanted a UK citizen. Specifically.
2) She doesn't want you in her city
3) She has milked two vacations out of you and is now upping her game to clothing.
    3a) If you have ever been in a Soviet style apartment, you would know the lack of closet space, so how many             clothes does she need or have room for?
4) I (any several others here) have been where you are. We recognize the pattern
5) You are making excuses to keep a bad situation going, as you still think you want to "co-habituate" with her.


If you are cool having an "arrangement" with this girl, OK. But she is pushing to be imported to specifically the UK. If she was in this for YOU, she wouldn't care what country you lived in. Just something for you to think about.


HDL.

HDL, WHERE is the scam from this 'scammer'???

Cause she wants to live in UK?
Cause she wants cloths? She gave him something!!! )))
I didn't know trench's girl arranged vacations(her idea)?
Maybe trench is butt ugly and girl is embarrassed to be amongst friends?

Maybe there is a new definition of 'scammer'?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 01:36:56 AM

Why do I think that?


1) She found you, therefore its possible that she wanted a UK citizen. Specifically.
2) She doesn't want you in her city
3) She has milked two vacations out of you and is now upping her game to clothing.
    3a) If you have ever been in a Soviet style apartment, you would know the lack of closet space, so how many             clothes does she need or have room for?
4) I (any several others here) have been where you are. We recognize the pattern
5) You are making excuses to keep a bad situation going, as you still think you want to "co-habituate" with her.


If you are cool having an "arrangement" with this girl, OK. But she is pushing to be imported to specifically the UK. If she was in this for YOU, she wouldn't care what country you lived in. Just something for you to think about.


HDL.

Well apparently a woman she worked with met a UK guy and now lives in the UK so she thought she would look abroad also. Prior to me about a year or two ago she was with a guy from another European country or so she says but it did not work out - neither of us want to go into previous relationships that much so I think its a general consensus that we are both more comfortable leaving it at that. I stated to her recently that she must be fine for clothes now as she can't have much space in her small apartment room so no need for me to buy any more before marriage/living together. She had a problem on the first vacation it got worse on the second with regard to wanting me to buy her clothing, I should have put my foot down more as on the first. They had a sale on the second vacation so it seemed expedient to let her buy a few but she still got more than I think she should have, that and we ate out a lot so it all added to the bill that got a bit expensive at the end of the day. Nothing I can't recover from with a break from spending and time at work but I don't want a recurrence of the same, I don't mind buying the odd dress for her or whatever but I just don't want to be a walking credit card. I not sure if she just feels its her right as a hot girl, just obsessed with clothing but it is creating an unfortunate wedge in our relationship. Her stating that it is UK visit next is not sitting well with me - I don't like that she is wanting to call the shots and I merely have no choice other than to follow on. So I appreciate number 4 on your list I can well understand that the same situation re-occur hence why the 'Pitfall List' I offered forward.

As far as vacation was concerned she said she wanted a beach holiday, she did not want Ukraine again, neither did I so as Ukraine was just getting Visa-free to EU I suggested a country in the Med. It seemed we were in not too bad a place by the end of the first holiday so that is why I was happy to do holiday. I now thing that holidays are just a bad idea, don't get me wrong I enjoyed it (apart from the expense) but it added virtually zero to advancing our relationship. We should have got busy on messaging or with her in her city trying to sort out problems in relationship. By the way HDL, Boethius seems to think the opposite of you that there are good reasons for her not wanting me in Kherson as the town talks apparently and I should bring girl for visit to the UK. I can't help but think though that her directness in coming to the UK is for some reason other than me.

Like you say a girl who wants to be with me I thought as well would want to be with me where ever. I have already promised another EU country in the Med as convenient for us both but she was at best luke warm to the idea. She does not want me in Kherson, yet she seems to have UK in her crosshairs as the place to be. If she had not carelessly racked up my expenses on clothing and food (one dish she ordered she barely touched and this was after I stated whether we needed to eat again as we had only just done a couple of hours or so before hand) then I would have less qualms. That said I do care for the girl and can appreciate not all Ukrainian girls will act the same, the age difference, that she is hot, etc and seems to have some attachment to me in seemingly wanting to be with me. So I am on the fence and think the only way to get off it is for me to go to Kherson, delve further.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 02:02:52 AM
She has not yet asked to visit US. Even if she wants to, she canít get a tourist visa. I am nowhere near asking her to marry me. We are just enjoying ourselves and getting to know each other. I will go back in September. The uproar is more about your girl and less about you living there. She wants to live in UK which is fine but should that be a deal breaker? And she is a shopaholic according to you. She is bad news.

HDL is right. If she truly is in this for you, she won't care where she lives.
Stop thinking with the little head. ;D You are trying to justify bad choices
.

My thoughts exactly and I don't think I'm likely the answers I need until I visit Kherson and in that respects I would rather plan for a extended stay if necessary so I can have the opportunity of other woman if she does turn out to be a bad one. For UK I'm think its much like the US difficult for Ukrainian women to visit. She has forwarded to me a list of documentation I need to provide and she need to provide to be able to do this (from the British Embassy). I have pointed out the pain in the arse of doing this, that even after we attempt it it could well get knocked back she says I am just using this that she thinks I don't really want her to visit as I have a family. I told her this is not true. She does not have a bank account for example - I could set one up for her possibly but will no doubt have to pay in money (convenient for her), the amount of money she will have to show to live on again will entail sending her more money. The way I see it I have already input enough money into this relationship and she has taken advantage, I want to see that all is up front first and get to really know her. Her demands to come to UK are just not on in my book. Your girl for example is not demanding this and I assume she is not getting you buying her lots of clothes?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 02:10:04 AM
Kherson is not an English village.  It is in Ukraine, and its inhabitants have a Slavic mentality.

How many English families in your village live on top of one another, with four generations (often) sharing a two room apartment?

Why are you asking for this information if you doubt it?

People there aren't stupid.  They are going to figure it out, and quickly, at that.

It's not being a busybody in their culture.  In fact, in Soviet times, it was encouraged, even rewarded.

You are saving her nothing by moving to Kherson.  Housing is not the expense it is in the West. Yes, she can't stop you from moving, but she can refuse to see you.

You can't know.  But a girl that much younger than you has chosen you because you provide her the opportunity of a lifestyle she can't have with a UM.  She is using what she has (lbeauty) to better her station in life, just as you are using what you have (providing economic stability) to obtain a girl you could not in the West.

Life comes with no guarantees.  If you can't live with this, then FSUW or, for that matter, relationships in general, are not for you.

I am still not convinced by this, sure I can see that people live in far greater density than the UK but is a girl meeting/having a relationship really going to be that big a deal. I'm sure many girls do it there. After all lets not forget Kherson is one of the Cities on the AFA (A Foreign Affair) tour and has been for many years - I'm sure the girls that attend those evenings are much higher on the radar than some girl with a guy through other more discreet channels. In any case if she refuses to see me I am sure there are plenty of other girls there willing to, perhaps I will remind her of that ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 16, 2017, 02:59:32 AM
I am still not convinced by this

You should be .. typical Trench stubbornness 

In any case if she refuses to see me I am sure there are plenty of other girls there willing to, perhaps I will remind her of that ;D

Frankly speaking, I don't think you will ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on July 16, 2017, 03:32:56 AM
neither of us want to go into previous relationships that much so I think its a general consensus that we are both more comfortable leaving it at that.

So you do not wish to face your mistakes in prior relationships?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 05:26:33 AM
She has not yet asked to visit US. Even if she wants to, she canít get a tourist visa. I am nowhere near asking her to marry me. We are just enjoying ourselves and getting to know each other. I will go back in September. The uproar is more about your girl and less about you living there. She wants to live in UK which is fine but should that be a deal breaker? And she is a shopaholic according to you. She is bad news.

HDL is right. If she truly is in this for you, she won't care where she lives.
Stop thinking with the little head. ;D You are trying to justify bad choices.

A third time and she has no issue with you being there, lol What will the locals be saying!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 08:12:01 AM
A third time and she has no issue with you being there, lol What will the locals be saying!


As I posted above, a woman over 30, particularly one with a child or who is divorced, is not going to elicit the same gossip.  In Ukrainian society, she is done.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 08:20:15 AM
I am still not convinced by this, sure I can see that people live in far greater density than the UK but is a girl meeting/having a relationship really going to be that big a deal. I'm sure many girls do it there. After all lets not forget Kherson is one of the Cities on the AFA (A Foreign Affair) tour and has been for many years - I'm sure the girls that attend those evenings are much higher on the radar than some girl with a guy through other more discreet channels. In any case if she refuses to see me I am sure there are plenty of other girls there willing to, perhaps I will remind her of that ;D


I don't really care if you're convinced.  This is the reality.  When you have lived in Ukraine and understand the culture intimately, come back and tell me why I'm wrong. 


AFA is a site to scam foreigners, which is not considered a sin/crime/bad thing among Ukrainians.  In fact, it's viewed as clever.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on July 16, 2017, 08:25:39 AM
HDL, WHERE is the scam from this 'scammer'???

Cause she wants to live in UK?
Cause she wants cloths? She gave him something!!! )))
I didn't know trench's girl arranged vacations(her idea)?
Maybe trench is butt ugly and girl is embarrassed to be amongst friends?

Maybe there is a new definition of 'scammer'?


I am using Trench's definition of "scam". He is willingly parting with money for vacations and clothing. That isn't a scam necessarily. But the fact she doesn't want him in her city and specifically wants to live in the UK are red flags. It doesn't become a true scam until she gets the British equivalent of a green card and she dumps him.


I find it hilarious, though that Trench seems to have issues with paying for meals while on vacation. Unless they had an apartment with kitchen facilities, how else were they going to eat?


So, is he truly being scammed? Don't know and it depends upon ones definition of a scam. Based on my reading of Trench's definition, he is getting scammed. My definition is a little different, but I would have pulled the pin on this girl when she demanded to meet in Kiev instead of Kherson. The fact that there is not much to do in Kherson is irrelevant. My girl lives in a small city in Belarus and there is little to do, but I have been there every trip (living in her flat, with a day in Minsk at both ends of a trip). My girl has been here 3 times and has been to my sleepy little town.


Trench's girl doesn't want him there for a reason. OK, so maybe the first trip they meet in Nikolaev or Odessa with a day trip to Kherson if things look good after a day or two. But a trip to the med for the second trip was probably her idea.


But, LAMan, you have to admit that the is relationship is fishy. Scam or not. If you disagree that is cool also. :)


HDL
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 08:27:41 AM
I don't think not wanting to meet in Kherson is a big deal.


I think the demand to be taken care of ("real man") is a red flag, and a sign this woman will not be a good wife.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on July 16, 2017, 08:36:52 AM
I don't think not wanting to meet in Kherson is a big deal.


I think the demand to be taken care of ("real man") is a red flag, and a sign this woman will not be a good wife.


But Boe, if the girl was serious, wouldn't she want her family to meet the guy? Granted, I have a small sample size, but I have met the close families of every girl I have flown to meet and I stay in the flat of my current girl. I agree with you on the gossip. The Babushka's gave my girl crap after my first visit. "Why do you want Americanski? Get good Belarusian man!". My girl told them to mind their own business. Of course my gal is much older than Trench's, has a child in university and doesn't give a sh*t about the town gossip.


Agree with you about the "real man" comments. In particular how it is used in manipulative manner.


HDL
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 08:39:45 AM
How serious is it if they've spent a total of two weeks together?  Way too early, from her point of view.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 08:45:32 AM
Yet she is set on UK. I agree with HDL in that two Red Flags have now appeared and I want to find out more about girl before spending any more time & money on her.

I could fly to Kherson later on and if she doesn't check out to my liking call up other girls who may.

HDL, yes of course I expect her to eat but it was often the most expensive thing on the menu, i.e Steak Diana and sometimes more than we needed too. Also she had some money but for every single item it was me dipping my hand into my wad again, it kind of got irritating after a while.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 08:47:40 AM
Culturally, a woman there would never pay on a date.  Especially if she is sleeping with the man.  So her having money is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 08:50:02 AM
Still, you are wasting your time.  She is not wife material.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on July 16, 2017, 09:05:12 AM
Yet she is set on UK. I agree with HDL in that two Red Flags have now appeared and I want to find out more about girl before spending any more time & money on her.

I could fly to Kherson later on and if she doesn't check out to my liking call up other girls who may.

HDL, yes of course I expect her to eat but it was often the most expensive thing on the menu, i.e Steak Diana and sometimes more than we needed too. Also she had some money but for every single item it was me dipping my hand into my wad again, it kind of got irritating after a while.


Trench, I am older than you. Other than birthdays, I have always paid for the meal when dining out with my girl friend or wife. It was how I was taught by my parents (along with opening car doors, etc). Part of being a gentleman. In the FSU it is mandatory as Boe and others have told you. If a dish on the menu is too expensive, you shouldn't have walked in the door. This behavior will kill you in her eyes. If you mentioned menu pricing to her, I wouldn't be surprised if the "clothing drive" demands are not punishment for being a "greedy" man. No wonder you can't find a woman in the UK. At least to us, you come across as a cheap bastard.


You need to fold your hand Trench. Fix your issues.


HDL



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on July 16, 2017, 09:11:29 AM
How serious is it if they've spent a total of two weeks together?  Way too early, from her point of view.


You are probably right so I won't argue this point with you as I have never dated a Ukrainian girl in her 20's. My dates have always been older than 30. Also, I put in hours and hours of Skype time before my first trip, so we knew if things would be good or not, at least initially. So there was a comfort level already established. In fact I met many family members over Skype before my trip. Another reason Trench's hesitation to use Skype is bad.


HDL
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on July 16, 2017, 09:51:51 AM

I am using Trench's definition of "scam". He is willingly parting with money for vacations and clothing. That isn't a scam necessarily. But the fact she doesn't want him in her city and specifically wants to live in the UK are red flags. It doesn't become a true scam until she gets the British equivalent of a green card and she dumps him.


I find it hilarious, though that Trench seems to have issues with paying for meals while on vacation. Unless they had an apartment with kitchen facilities, how else were they going to eat?


So, is he truly being scammed? Don't know and it depends upon ones definition of a scam. Based on my reading of Trench's definition, he is getting scammed. My definition is a little different, but I would have pulled the pin on this girl when she demanded to meet in Kiev instead of Kherson. The fact that there is not much to do in Kherson is irrelevant. My girl lives in a small city in Belarus and there is little to do, but I have been there every trip (living in her flat, with a day in Minsk at both ends of a trip). My girl has been here 3 times and has been to my sleepy little town.


Trench's girl doesn't want him there for a reason. OK, so maybe the first trip they meet in Nikolaev or Odessa with a day trip to Kherson if things look good after a day or two. But a trip to the med for the second trip was probably her idea.


But, LAMan, you have to admit that the is relationship is fishy. Scam or not. If you disagree that is cool also. :)


HDL

I find it hilarious the way 'scam' is used. It is used when one feels he/she are not getting what they pay for!!!

Seems to me both Trench and this(not his) girl have merely been fulfilling some needs. Initially, Trench put out some cache because he was getting sex, at that point he was not complaining about being scammed or used and the girl was getting something she wanted...new clothes. Now Trench is having issues because the sex is not worth buying clothes, it was only a matter of time until this came up.

Problem here has nothing to do with girl( she does sound selfish), it is Trench's attitude. He will have issues with any girl, whether it be Ukraine, UK, Russia, Earth, Mars.........   I do believe there is someone for everyone, so eventually Trench will find someone that will put up with him, whether it be for a few weeks, few months or even a few years before he is alone again.
There is a reason Trench's visit are mostly 3rd cities, he's doing something to precipitate this happening and I don't know why this is happening( happened only once to me).

It was this board who encouraged Trench to start this journey, convincing him to try with little concern whether it was feasible or not. I saw from the beginning why he had issues with women at home based on his posting here. I would never advise anyone to start this journey, too many pitfalls or minefields, my advise is to look at home..... a lot safer.

I appreciate Trench being so open with his personal life here quite entertaining, a lot better reading than political threads, hope he stops and smells the roses and change something in his life.....all to make him a better person. I wish him luck.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 10:05:25 AM
Still, you are wasting your time.  She is not wife material.

Regretfully Boe I think you're right. I tried to allow for her characteristics that weren't wife material characteristics as I know most of us on the online dating are there because we don't line up quite enough with the ideal. Generally yes I would accept paying for meal & drink but shopping I think she should not have done, it was not right of her. I thought if I be nice to her she would appreciate it but I think it has damaged our relationship more than anything. The fact that she is standing her ground and not budging is completely unhelpful. I think she just wants to use a WM for clothing and holidays and keep it quite from her home life so it is just where she can quietly get clothes from. Whether she truly wants to  immigrate at all I wonder also or just want another free trip abroad and again shopping trip at my expense.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on July 16, 2017, 10:22:33 AM
How things can change in a little over a month or maybe how things were never really clear?


Cheers Bill, your right, I'm happy in the place where I am at the moment, in fact couldn't be happier :) So keeping the story out of sniper range on here suits me and glad you agree its best too, many thanks. Plus no longer got time to argue as busy in relationship with girl ;D

Admittedly some of conclusions I reached were off the mark and experience can often gives better insight than surmising. That said, I think the surmising and consequent correction & input from those more experienced than myself on here helped me get a better idea of how things work in FSU dating. If I did not have this I think I would have been all at sea in a sense of confusion for some time.

I now feel pretty capable of leading the relationship forward. However, I think its fair to say there are still the odd situations that emerge that take some navigating in areas I am still a little unsure off. So not completely there yet but happy in the relationship that has come about. She's a sweet girl, genuine & authentic and seems to be really into me & vice versa and that takes us a long way I feel without having to work at the relationship just move forward as necessary.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 16, 2017, 10:31:36 AM

Other than birthdays, I have always paid for the meal when dining out with my girl friend or wife.

As an aside - it is traditional that those inviting guests for their Birthday pay for the guests in the FSU
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 11:51:29 AM
How things can change in a little over a month or maybe how things were never really clear?

Yeah, things were looking good, I will be more careful in future, she seemed really into me but now I think maybe she had other motives and I was just a pawn for her. I mean are there any girls out there in Ukraine, etc who are really looking for a guy and not just uncaringly waste his life chances of finding someone for holidays, shopping, immigration, etc?

I just couldn't decently treat people that way. The decent thing for these girls to do is stand aside and not get in the way of these guys finding someone. It blatantly obvious they guys don't stroll into this with profiles that read, hey I want to take girls on shopping trips, holidays, etc even if she is not serious about a relationship but is willing to make out she is.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 12:51:20 PM
Quote
He will have issues with any girl, whether it be Ukraine, UK, Russia, Earth, Mars.........   I do believe there is someone for everyone, so eventually Trench will find someone that will put

I agree with this. 

Trench, the attitude you display here is too much "me, me, me".  It will not lead to long term success.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 01:16:08 PM
Yeah, things were looking good, I will be more careful in future, she seemed really into me but now I think maybe she had other motives and I was just a pawn for her. I mean are there any girls out there in Ukraine, etc who are really looking for a guy and not just uncaringly waste his life chances of finding someone for holidays, shopping, immigration, etc?

I just couldn't decently treat people that way. The decent thing for these girls to do is stand aside and not get in the way of these guys finding someone. It blatantly obvious they guys don't stroll into this with profiles that read, hey I want to take girls on shopping trips, holidays, etc even if she is not serious about a relationship but is willing to make out she is.


You may not have been a pawn.  She may have been sincere.  It's just that her expectations and yours would not mesh over time.


As for "uncaring", do you realize how many sex tourists go to Ukraine, promising girls a new life?  That's one of the reasons why girls don't want to meet men in their home cities.  It is just as prevalent, perhaps more, than women scamming WM.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 01:40:27 PM

You are probably right so I won't argue this point with you as I have never dated a Ukrainian girl in her 20's. My dates have always been older than 30. Also, I put in hours and hours of Skype time before my first trip, so we knew if things would be good or not, at least initially. So there was a comfort level already established. In fact I met many family members over Skype before my trip. Another reason Trench's hesitation to use Skype is bad.


HDL


If a woman is a scammer, she's going to scam you whether or not she's in her home town.  I think this "red flag" is anything but.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on July 16, 2017, 02:07:40 PM
Regretfully Boe I think you're right. I tried to allow for her characteristics that weren't wife material characteristics as I know most of us on the online dating are there because we don't line up quite enough with the ideal. Generally yes I would accept paying for meal & drink but shopping I think she should not have done, it was not right of her. I thought if I be nice to her she would appreciate it but I think it has damaged our relationship more than anything. The fact that she is standing her ground and not budging is completely unhelpful. I think she just wants to use a WM for clothing and holidays and keep it quite from her home life so it is just where she can quietly get clothes from. Whether she truly wants to  immigrate at all I wonder also or just want another free trip abroad and again shopping trip at my expense.

Wait a second. You were adamant just a few hours ago that this girl is still right for you.

If you back out, she would now probably call you a sex tourist. You did get your little head wet.  ;D

Next time, slow down. I can't understand why anyone starts thinking marriage after one or two meetings. If the next girl drags you into a shopping mall, walk out and say goodbye. I have yet to buy the girl I am pursuing anything more than flowers and candy. We did go to nice restaurants sometimes (they were my idea because I am a foodie) and I didn't care what the prices were. If she is the right one for me, when she comes here (and that is a long way off from now), I will give her my Nordstrom card and tell her to knock herself out, within reason. Don't try to buy love, Trench. Remember the advice you got from people who have a ton more experience.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 16, 2017, 03:02:03 PM
shopping trip at my expense.

I am not trying to pile on so don't take it that way.

99.99% of my wife's shopping is at my expense. Only I don't
look at it that way. I look at it as providing for my family and
that's my job.

When we first met she had difficulty letting me pay for anything
except for dates. 100% of the girls in the FSU expect you to pay
for that, but she wouldn't accept cab fare or even bus fare home. 

As I started winning her heart she would allow me to buy her
almost anything.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 04:18:55 PM
Wait a second. You were adamant just a few hours ago that this girl is still right for you.

If you back out, she would now probably call you a sex tourist. You did get your little head wet.  ;D

Next time, slow down. I can't understand why anyone starts thinking marriage after one or two meetings. If the next girl drags you into a shopping mall, walk out and say goodbye. I have yet to buy the girl I am pursuing anything more than flowers and candy. We did go to nice restaurants sometimes (they were my idea because I am a foodie) and I didn't care what the prices were. If she is the right one for me, when she comes here (and that is a long way off from now), I will give her my Nordstrom card and tell her to knock herself out, within reason. Don't try to buy love, Trench. Remember the advice you got from people who have a ton more experience.


I get the sense Trench is not certain what he wants.  Given that, either continue visiting her on neutral territory in Ukraine without shopping sprees, or just do the UK visa, and have her visit you.   Give her a set sum of spending money (say, $500 for a month), no more, and eat in.


 You need to sort out in your brain what you really want.  No one else can do that for you.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on July 16, 2017, 04:38:14 PM
I want to find out more about girl before spending any more time & money on her.


Without spending money to visit her, take her on a date and seeing her face to face and learn how she interacts with you and others in person, how will you find out more about the girl?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 16, 2017, 09:45:36 PM
Without spending money to visit her, take her on a date and seeing her face to face and learn how she interacts with you and others in person, how will you find out more about the girl?

Send a 50 item questionnaire to all her ex boyfriends.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on July 17, 2017, 05:06:09 AM
Quote from: BillyB on Yesterday at 04:38:14 PM
Without spending money to visit her, take her on a date and seeing her face to face and learn how she interacts with you and others in person, how will you find out more about the girl?

Send a 50 item questionnaire to all her ex boyfriends.

 ;) That might work!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 17, 2017, 05:54:06 AM
I am not trying to pile on so don't take it that way.

99.99% of my wife's shopping is at my expense. Only I don't
look at it that way. I look at it as providing for my family and
that's my job.

When we first met she had difficulty letting me pay for anything
except for dates. 100% of the girls in the FSU expect you to pay
for that, but she wouldn't accept cab fare or even bus fare home. 

As I started winning her heart she would allow me to buy her
almost anything.

Does your wife work Bill? If so where does her money go?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 17, 2017, 06:15:40 AM
Wait a second. You were adamant just a few hours ago that this girl is still right for you.

If you back out, she would now probably call you a sex tourist. You did get your little head wet.  ;D

Next time, slow down. I can't understand why anyone starts thinking marriage after one or two meetings. If the next girl drags you into a shopping mall, walk out and say goodbye. I have yet to buy the girl I am pursuing anything more than flowers and candy. We did go to nice restaurants sometimes (they were my idea because I am a foodie) and I didn't care what the prices were. If she is the right one for me, when she comes here (and that is a long way off from now), I will give her my Nordstrom card and tell her to knock herself out, within reason. Don't try to buy love, Trench. Remember the advice you got from people who have a ton more experience.

I'm not trying to buy love Wall. She seemed to be really short of clothing, shoes, etc so as it was our second visit and the sales were on I thought I would give her a bit of leeway. To be honest at a rough adding up I'm guessing the clothes came to around £400 (possibly more think some more costs appeared on my credit card since I added this up), cosmetics & sprays around £200 and her half of the food bill around £400. So around £1k all together, some may not see this as a lot but on top of flight costs, hotel cost (four star hotel) and hire car cost for the week and of course my own spending it all added up to rather a lot. Plus I had to send her a few hundred pounds to satisfy border control requirements just in case. I can replenish the money in the short term so its not the be all and end all but its expense that with hindsight I should have avoided. I think it was Moby on here that advised expensive holiday as not a good idea and now I think he was right. Like I say I/we enjoyed the holiday and some good memories but I really don't think holidays are now the way to go in the initial stages of a relationship.

Anyway, things are up and down with this girl like a tart's knickers. Just when I thought she might be playing the field it looks like I might have possibly jumped the gun. That and she is now stating that she will get her Ukrainian friend who is married in the UK to help her with the visitor's visa. This kind of shocked me as she seems really determined to come her and see me. She seems adamantly to think I have a wife which I do not and never have done. She stated this again when telling me that she is getting her friend to help her out. She won't accept me visiting Kherson first she is like a broken record on that one, 'I come to you first then you come to me' over and over again ans she does not budge at all from this no matter what tact you take with her - Is this the Slavic mentality you talk of Boethius? lol. I just really don't know what to make of her sometimes.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on July 17, 2017, 08:51:42 AM

 You need to sort out in your brain what you really want.  No one else can do that for you.


This is a golden nugget.


When guys don't have their standards sorted out "Cute" becomes the default setting.
This is part of how fatal flaws can be glossed over or overlooked completely.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 17, 2017, 10:44:10 AM
Does your wife work Bill? If so where does her money go?

We have a two year old, who is very active, curious and nearly potty trained. She
reads him stories, plays with him and his face is always clean. We have a house,
a garden with fresh flowers and vegetables. 99% of our meals are prepared at
home. I have a hot breakfast every morning, and a delicious nutritious lunch
packed for whenever I leave the house.

My clothes are clean and pressed, the house is always clean, the windows sparkle.
She has hand knitted sweaters for mini me and myself out of Alpaca wool and other
wool types. She sews entire outfits of clothes out of cloth that she buys and she bakes
cakes from flour, sugar, eggs and things nothing out of boxes. Our garbage is picked
up once a week and unless it has pine needles in it the garbage can is never full.
(They don't want us to put pine needles in the green bin, they didn't say why)

I bought her a pressure washer and she washes the house, the car, the patios, the
driveway and our area rugs. She cans food for winter including pickles, tomatoes,
jams and jelly's. She grows herbs and flowers that she dries and uses for her tea
in the winter.

She studies English 3 days per week and she works 1 or 2 days per week for peanuts
making a few hundred per month. She uses this opportunity to practice English with
those who aren't familiar with her accent. I don't have an accounting for what she
does with all that mad money, some of it she spends on buying yarn or material
for sewing and knitting. Some she uses to buy stuff to beautify her smooth skin, her
long tapered nails or her long shiny hair.

If I don't care what she does with the money. Why would you?
My wife saves me at least $1,000 per month of money that I don't spend.

You are going to struggle to find a woman who will accept your obsession and
control over money in the FSU. India and parts of Africa have some attractive
women who may have the type of mentality you seek. 

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 17, 2017, 03:01:00 PM
We have a two year old, who is very active, curious and nearly potty trained. She
reads him stories, plays with him and his face is always clean. We have a house,
a garden with fresh flowers and vegetables. 99% of our meals are prepared at
home. I have a hot breakfast every morning, and a delicious nutritious lunch
packed for whenever I leave the house.

My clothes are clean and pressed, the house is always clean, the windows sparkle.
She has hand knitted sweaters for mini me and myself out of Alpaca wool and other
wool types. She sews entire outfits of clothes out of cloth that she buys and she bakes
cakes from flour, sugar, eggs and things nothing out of boxes. Our garbage is picked
up once a week and unless it has pine needles in it the garbage can is never full.
(They don't want us to put pine needles in the green bin, they didn't say why)

I bought her a pressure washer and she washes the house, the car, the patios, the
driveway and our area rugs. She cans food for winter including pickles, tomatoes,
jams and jelly's. She grows herbs and flowers that she dries and uses for her tea
in the winter.

She studies English 3 days per week and she works 1 or 2 days per week for peanuts
making a few hundred per month. She uses this opportunity to practice English with
those who aren't familiar with her accent. I don't have an accounting for what she
does with all that mad money, some of it she spends on buying yarn or material
for sewing and knitting. Some she uses to buy stuff to beautify her smooth skin, her
long tapered nails or her long shiny hair.

If I don't care what she does with the money. Why would you?
My wife saves me at least $1,000 per month of money that I don't spend.

You are going to struggle to find a woman who will accept your obsession and
control over money in the FSU. India and parts of Africa have some attractive
women who may have the type of mentality you seek.

Sounds good Bill and a nice life to have :)

Well my present girl I don't know what her idea is in terms of when we live together. She has already stated she doesn't want to go 50/50. In UK I think she could get a job either in retail or basic management her language skills I think are good enough now for that.

At the moment she is throwing her toys out of the pram as she states that she first comes to me or we don't meet at all if I chose to come to Kherson. She is is stating that I am not serious about her because of this despite me visiting her in Kiev and paying for holiday in the sun. The visa she requires I think could likely come with many additional expenses as she currently has no bank account, etc. She seems to be upping the pressure. I just don't know as I don't know if I am going to go to all the expense and hassle of getting her said visa for her then to take of with some other guy. The fact that she is upping the pressure and getting more forceful I just don't like, its not a good sign in my mind. Yes she thinks I have a wife already but I have said to her about connecting on Facebook and stating relation as then if I had someone else it would come out. She says this proves nothing and is not interested, I disagree even though I am not a big fan of Facebook. My thoughts are still that is she was into me enough she would visit me wherever so I'm having my doubts. Also she has been logging onto her dating account recently, she says it was to check on me but I really wonder. I asked her to take her profile down of the search but she does not seem to know what I am getting at - she seems to think its a case of deleting account and wants us to do this together to be sure. Myself I wonder if its a delaying tactic that she is ling up blokes to meet in UK when she get the Visa and I will be sidelined. She apparently has a friend in UK so guessing she could alternatively chose to stay with her.

I personally wonder if she just wants a quick in to the UK and I am a convenient mule and so it doesn't matter if I'm not really rich as she can sort that out later, just so long as she gets in. Its why I really want to spend some time out in Ukraine whether with her or looking for a girl as I don;t want the whole visa/immigration thing to get in the way.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on July 17, 2017, 03:12:09 PM
Wow.  You are a suspicious SOB.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 17, 2017, 03:17:42 PM
Sounds good Bill and a nice life to have :)

Well my present girl I don't know what her idea is in terms of when we live together. She has already stated she doesn't want to go 50/50.

She is a woman, you are a man. She loves being a woman and wants you to
be a man. She will do more of household work and you will do more earning
type work.

What are you talking about 50/50? Are you joking? Do you want a Western
woman or a FSU woman?

Stop! don't continue just stop.

Please make a list of what you are seeking. If you have one or two private
desire(s) delete that from the list and post it here. I've made assumptions
about what you were seeking and I can see now that I am totally incorrect.
I have no f#cking clue to what you want, and I can't and the other forum
member can't help you unless we know what you are seeking.

So, post the list and I will see if there is anything I can do to help, but I
can't continue to flail about with no idea what you are seeking.

Udachi!

Bill
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on July 17, 2017, 05:10:26 PM


Stop! don't continue just stop.


Wow.  You are a suspicious SOB.

Below is a link to another thread -- I did not post it here in this thread when I first saw it --  but --  I keep seeing the inane ideas of the op here -- it reminds me of all the potential for an abnormal relationship to go very wrong when a social misfit embarks on a cross cultural search.


Mail Order Murder

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22017.msg464768#msg464768

The documentary can be watched here--
The Perfect Bride

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4229048/
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on July 17, 2017, 06:47:47 PM
fact that she is upping the pressure and getting more forceful I just don't like, its not a good sign in my mind. Yes she thinks I have a wife already

 

She doesn't trust you. You don't trust her. But you both slept together. Physical bonding doesn't build trust?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on July 17, 2017, 07:01:27 PM
This thread is sooo amusing, Trench -  the man who saw scammers in every corner and one of the cheapest SOB I ever seen here - got some well deserved sex, and now have to pay for it and then complains, who could have guessed   :-\

This disaster of a trainwreck most of us saw from the very beginning - you have only been thinking, and is still thinking with your little head - (by any chance you were a virgin before you met her?) but my only suggestion - drop her like a hot smelling turd and get on with your life, she is not in to you .. and change yourself before you go looking in Ukraine or Russia again, you simply can't handle those women, or any women I would say.

I am currently sitting in a warm nice cabin in the Carpathians just outside a "town" Tatariv, next to me, sleeping now, is a tall, blackhaired beauty with iceblue eyes and the most amazing smile.
This is my seventh trip to meet her, and in a few days we are taking a roadtrip through Poland up to Sweden for her first time outside Ukraine, we have now spent 16 days together, and we are planning on another 10 days before she needs to fly home and go to work again, as me..
 
I have bought her flowers on 9 occasions, 1 very nice necklace for valentines, and then I added a couple of earrings that matches the necklace on her birthday in mars.
She asked me to return the earrings, since I spent to much on her already she thinks.
I pick up the bill in restaurants 100% of the times, I payed for every taxi, rental car and hotelroom, coffee/tea or icecream that has come our way.
I don't think that would never even cross her mind to do, and I would almost be offended if she did.

She do buy me small things, memorabilia, sweets with cherry she knows I like and a nice shirt she thought "I would look so sexy in"

Now my lady is
1. Older then 35 (no kids)
2. Has a very good job as assistant bankmanager - makes ok money, not to say good money.
4. Lives in a smaller city - Zhytomyr - but has from day one been very adamant that I came to see her in her city, met her friends, met her parents.
3. Has more shoes then a shoe store. The first woman I met that can outrun me on the street wearing 4-5 inch heels any time of the day in any weather.. even in winter.
5. Is the biggest fashionista I ever met, looooves shopping. Not exclusively expensive brands, but prefer them absolutely.
We have gone shopping 5-6 times, not once has she even looked at me when it was time to pay.. "I really like this, do you like it, do I look good?" she asked while parading around as a model in the store. I said "yes" (and more then once drooled a little) and then she just went and bought it and came back with a big smile.

She has suggested more then once that I come live in Ukraine, she knows I can find something I like to do there and she knows I love the country, or well, the culture and people anyway. 
I have met all her closest friends (visit 1,2,3,4,6)
I have met her entire family, including grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins that came from Nikolaev just to meet me (visit 3)
I have spent a long weekend in her parents Dasha with parents and grandparents (visit 5)

Yes I know I am bragging, I am entitled to, she is way to beautiful and "hot" for me.  ;D
she is a 12, I am in my best days a 6..or 5.. but I'm 11 in bed, that's why she loves me.  8)

but the thing is Trench -  this is how I know we are right for each other, we spent maybe 100-150 hours on skype and on the phone (viber) the first 3 weeks before I came to see her for the first time, we talked about everything, from what we like to eat to how much I looked forward to eat her.... we always found some subject, some interest to talk about..a lot of late nights and always stayed in contact one way or another during the working days even we both are very busy at work.
Now we have both been exclusive since day one we found out in our talks, but we decided on this trip(!) in words, to take this to the next level, to really commit.

so you must understand, you have a lot of homework to do before you nail this, even if you ask a million questions . you never understand the answers, or want to understand what you are told. That is your one way ticket to disaster...every time I think. 

Now I wish you all good night, I will climb in to bed and enjoy the fruits of my labor now :P

On another note, I couldn't reach the forum from the mobile connection I use here, Kyivstar - Site can not be reached -.. had to use a VPN home to access.
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 01:24:57 AM
quote author=Nightwish link=topic=22008.msg464826#msg464826 date=1500339687]
This thread is sooo amusing, Trench -  the man who saw scammers in every corner and one of the cheapest SOB I ever seen here - got some well deserved sex, and now have to pay for it and then complains, who could have guessed   :-\

This disaster of a trainwreck most of us saw from the very beginning - you have only been thinking, and is still thinking with your little head - (by any chance you were a virgin before you met her?) but my only suggestion - drop her like a hot smelling turd and get on with your life, she is not in to you .. and change yourself before you go looking in Ukraine or Russia again, you simply can't handle those women, or any women I would say.

I am currently sitting in a warm nice cabin in the Carpathians just outside a "town" Tatariv, next to me, sleeping now, is a tall, blackhaired beauty with iceblue eyes and the most amazing smile.
This is my seventh trip to meet her, and in a few days we are taking a roadtrip through Poland up to Sweden for her first time outside Ukraine, we have now spent 16 days together, and we are planning on another 10 days before she needs to fly home and go to work again, as me..
 
I have bought her flowers on 9 occasions, 1 very nice necklace for valentines, and then I added a couple of earrings that matches the necklace on her birthday in mars.
She asked me to return the earrings, since I spent to much on her already she thinks.
I pick up the bill in restaurants 100% of the times, I payed for every taxi, rental car and hotelroom, coffee/tea or icecream that has come our way.
I don't think that would never even cross her mind to do, and I would almost be offended if she did.

She do buy me small things, memorabilia, sweets with cherry she knows I like and a nice shirt she thought "I would look so sexy in"

Now my lady is
1. Older then 35 (no kids)
2. Has a very good job as assistant bankmanager - makes ok money, not to say good money.
4. Lives in a smaller city - Zhytomyr - but has from day one been very adamant that I came to see her in her city, met her friends, met her parents.
3. Has more shoes then a shoe store. The first woman I met that can outrun me on the street wearing 4-5 inch heels any time of the day in any weather.. even in winter.
5. Is the biggest fashionista I ever met, looooves shopping. Not exclusively expensive brands, but prefer them absolutely.
We have gone shopping 5-6 times, not once has she even looked at me when it was time to pay.. "I really like this, do you like it, do I look good?" she asked while parading around as a model in the store. I said "yes" (and more then once drooled a little) and then she just went and bought it and came back with a big smile.

She has suggested more then once that I come live in Ukraine, she knows I can find something I like to do there and she knows I love the country, or well, the culture and people anyway. 
I have met all her closest friends (visit 1,2,3,4,6)
I have met her entire family, including grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins that came from Nikolaev just to meet me (visit 3)
I have spent a long weekend in her parents Dasha with parents and grandparents (visit 5)

Yes I know I am bragging, I am entitled to, she is way to beautiful and "hot" for me.  ;D
she is a 12, I am in my best days a 6..or 5.. but I'm 11 in bed, that's why she loves me.  8)

but the thing is Trench -  this is how I know we are right for each other, we spent maybe 100-150 hours on skype and on the phone (viber) the first 3 weeks before I came to see her for the first time, we talked about everything, from what we like to eat to how much I looked forward to eat her.... we always found some subject, some interest to talk about..a lot of late nights and always stayed in contact one way or another during the working days even we both are very busy at work.
Now we have both been exclusive since day one we found out in our talks, but we decided on this trip(!) in words, to take this to the next level, to really commit.

so you must understand, you have a lot of homework to do before you nail this, even if you ask a million questions . you never understand the answers, or want to understand what you are told. That is your one way ticket to disaster...every time I think. 

Now I wish you all good night, I will climb in to bed and enjoy the fruits of my labor now :P

On another note, I couldn't reach the forum from the mobile connection I use here, Kyivstar - Site can not be reached -.. had to use a VPN home to access.
[/quote]

OK I get it Nightwish you Skyped a lot and a lot of women that had ideas other than looking for a real relationship would have dropped out long before the 150 hours reached and various random phone calls in their day. Yes perhaps I should have done a lot more Skype hours before meeting this girl in the first place, but her English was apparently not good at the time and I assumed it was tiring on both of us. I  can still not be quite sure if she really does/did have bad English or was just faking it. If she was faking it she was keeping up the charade well, more recent she does seem to have improved when on holiday but still not 100 percent. She did of course do English at school & I have paid for English lessons (about 100 Euros for 10 lessons) so maybe it was a case of it all coming back to her I'm just not sure. My girl doesn't have a good job like yours, she earns a lot less no doubt. I was never after a girl for the job she does though I can see when it comes to shopping it would ease the situation.

I personally only have so much free time I can use Skype for, though I can see now that time spent on many hours on skype with girl can mean many hours not wasted on trips to see the wrong girl. That said of course there are those on here that would say a girl will get fed up if no meeting was forthcoming after Skyping a fair while.

I'm guessing you hit up quite a number of girls on Skype before you got to one that seemed to hit the mark Nightwish? in terms of willing to skype you back without any reason not too that may seem perfectly valid.

I'm still not keen on all the online/skype approach that much, I'm still veering towards just going out to a town/city in the FSU for a while and just calling up girls there and then and date as the locals do get away from all the bs of online dating from afar. 

Lets face it there is a lot of bs on these online dating sites and for the newbie its easy to be suckered into the wrong girl who is happy to meet all too quickly for whatever reason other than wanting a real relationship.

The girl I am with at the moment I'm really not sure its going to go long term. She just seems to want to come to UK and I doubt her motives. She's refusing at the moment to see me if I come to Kherson and if she was serious I don't think she would be doing that. If it comes to another go at this in the near future I am wanting to get out there and meet all these girls first hand without any bs in the way.

So I'm surprised you aren't yet stated you are committed to this girl Nightwish - Looks to me you have more than the input that many do before committing. I mean you have met all her extended family and all, are you perhaps in danger of being a bit too non-committal?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 01:43:10 AM
She is a woman, you are a man. She loves being a woman and wants you to
be a man. She will do more of household work and you will do more earning
type work.

What are you talking about 50/50? Are you joking? Do you want a Western
woman or a FSU woman?

Stop! don't continue just stop.

Please make a list of what you are seeking. If you have one or two private
desire(s) delete that from the list and post it here. I've made assumptions
about what you were seeking and I can see now that I am totally incorrect.
I have no f#cking clue to what you want, and I can't and the other forum
member can't help you unless we know what you are seeking.

So, post the list and I will see if there is anything I can do to help, but I
can't continue to flail about with no idea what you are seeking.

Udachi!

Bill

Well its really is a very short list Bill, basically I want a girl with:

-Natural Chemistry
-Genuinely wants a Serious, Committed Relationship
-Wants Children pretty soon
-Willing to make sacrifices for the Relationship
-Willing to do part time work to afford herself her own spending money
-Preferably no Children already as I would prefer a clean slate


I mean I don't think its too much to ask to ask the girl to do a little work so as to have her own money that she would just be spending on herself anyway (& maybe a bit for groceries) i.e clothing, beauty products, etc.

I'm happy paying the main big costs like accommodation, taxes, utility bills, car running costs, flights, all my own shopping costs and the odd occasional shopping costs of hers. I mean it doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I'm not asking for her to go 50/50, just hold a bit of her own self-weight financially. Essentially I am allowing any money she earns as free spending money to spend on herself her own leisure which she apparently doesn't have at the moment it goes on her half of apartment rental cost. So she would be getting a far better deal than she is at present but no she seems to want to be disagreeable to me going to Kherson to advance our relationship and instead seems happy staying in her present predicament which is worse off than I am offering her.

Part of my issue is if she doesn't work at all to pay for anything, her own clothes, etc then she is not going to respect my money. The best I can do then is say here's X amount of money for the month, that's it. I can just see her spending X amount on herself then coming back for more before the month is out. i.e if she doesn't earn it she just won't care as its not her money being spent or wasted.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 03:03:58 AM

but the thing is Trench -  this is how I know we are right for each other, we spent maybe 100-150 hours on skype and on the phone (viber) the first 3 weeks before I came to see her for the first time, we talked about everything, from what we like to eat to how much I looked forward to eat her.... we always found some subject, some interest to talk about..a lot of late nights and always stayed in contact one way or another during the working days even we both are very busy at work.


So you were averaging roughly 5-7 hours per day on Skype, phone, etc. I wonder what you actually do for work that affords you this amount off time to talk Nightwish unless you are bs ing me. That and while I can talk to some women about all sorts and one topic rolls into the next I am surprised you had not run out of stuff to say or covered the same turf a lot, or one of you got bored/fed up.

I know before you have made a claim on this forum about the number of visits you do abroad, which again makes me wonder what you do for work - are you rich, an owner of a business you can leave and keep paying for trips abroad, or just bs.

Perhaps you are telling the truth, you seem to have made a fair bit of progress in your 1-2 years of looking (about the same as me). I will admit that my shortcoming so far (among others but we all make mistakes) is that the relationship have not perhaps gone deep enough so that I only have a one-dimensional  take on the girl. This I should have sorted out before visiting. I think though that there are many girls online that just want to give a one dimensional view of themselves. For me I will rectify this (if present girl does not come around) by going out there and getting to know the woman in their own setting and have the necessary time to devout to a relationship instead of a holiday outing. I mean for what its worth Nightwish what you are presently doing is a holiday outing - why not move to a more permanent footing with this girl? You know her (& her family) well enough now surely. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on July 18, 2017, 06:24:15 AM
Trench, 2tallbill is right on. Stop it. Don't pursue this anymore.
You can't be thinking about her working to make her own spending money. Ridiculous. You have to provide for her. If you can't, do not pursue FSUW. If she works eventually, well and good.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on July 18, 2017, 11:18:18 AM
So you were averaging roughly 5-7 hours per day on Skype, phone, etc. I wonder what you actually do for work that affords you this amount off time to talk Nightwish unless you are bs ing me. That and while I can talk to some women about all sorts and one topic rolls into the next I am surprised you had not run out of stuff to say or covered the same turf a lot, or one of you got bored/fed up.

I know before you have made a claim on this forum about the number of visits you do abroad, which again makes me wonder what you do for work - are you rich, an owner of a business you can leave and keep paying for trips abroad, or just bs.

Perhaps you are telling the truth, you seem to have made a fair bit of progress in your 1-2 years of looking (about the same as me). I will admit that my shortcoming so far (among others but we all make mistakes) is that the relationship have not perhaps gone deep enough so that I only have a one-dimensional  take on the girl. This I should have sorted out before visiting. I think though that there are many girls online that just want to give a one dimensional view of themselves. For me I will rectify this (if present girl does not come around) by going out there and getting to know the woman in their own setting and have the necessary time to devout to a relationship instead of a holiday outing. I mean for what its worth Nightwish what you are presently doing is a holiday outing - why not move to a more permanent footing with this girl? You know her (& her family) well enough now surely.

First of all, I don't know how many hours exactly, but we spoke I would guess on average 3-4 hours every single day for 26 days before I could go. Sometimes just 2,5 hours on the phone, sometimes 1-2 hours skype and then 5 hours on the phone instead of sleeping. We where like a couple of teenagers talking endlessly on the phone. Sleeping is for the married couples :D

I can tell you exactly how this happened, I met one of her girlfriends online on a site almost 1,5 years ago, I talked to her for about 2-3 weeks and decided to come meet her, we had a good time, she was very sweet and nice, but there was something lacking in feelings, she felt a lot more like a very good friend the a potential future wife. So we decided we would just be friends. She then talked to Tanya at one time and said, "contact this man, he is a good man, he is serious and very attentive and very handsome"
So Tanya took contact on Viber, called me after about an hour of text-chatting and this all started.
She fell instantly for me as I did for her, everything felt amazing from day one. I did tell her from the start, I can't come to Ukraine until next month since I had a big project at work, and she only said - "good then we have plenty of time to get to know each other".
I wont write a whole trip-report, certainly not right now when I am with her.

But from that first day, she has called me maybe 70% of the times, when ever I called her, she giggled a bit and then tried to sneak away from what she was doing.. and when you have this chemistry, firstly there is no forbidden topics, secondly I WANT to, and really ENJOY talking to her, how could we run out of subjects? If you find yourself having a hard time finding things to talk about, especially if you dont live together - how possible?
We talk about everything that has happened in our life, memories, lifestories, politics, music, movies. We compare my life "in west" to hers in "the east", she can't really remember anything "Soviet" but she grew up during the Perestroika and the independence of Ukraine.
We enjoy talking about all the places we will visit when she comes here to live, what she wants to do with her life, where we want to live and what kind of life we want. So we always have things to talk about.. longest phonecall, night 3 or 4 I think it was, 9 hours straight.. we even had breakfast together on skype.. that is what 100% (LDR) chemistry is.. of course none of us planned it in advance, it was just that wonderful to have her in my life from day one.

I have - before I met Tanya - been to Ukraine 24 times in these 3 years or so I have been active, one of those was a longer relationship for about 7 months (8-9 visits) but in the end it fell apart for reasons that was out of our control, lets just say family issues.

I personally only have so much free time I can use Skype for, though I can see now that time spent on many hours on skype with girl can mean many hours not wasted on trips to see the wrong girl. That said of course there are those on here that would say a girl will get fed up if no meeting was forthcoming after Skyping a fair while.
The shortest time I talked online with someone before going there to meet her - 4 days
The longest time 1 month.
I'm guessing you hit up quite a number of girls on Skype before you got to one that seemed to hit the mark Nightwish? in terms of willing to skype you back without any reason not too that may seem perfectly valid.
Yes, I have met 25-30 girls during these 3,5 years, tried both WMVM  (and my preferred way) WOVO.


I'm still not keen on all the online/skype approach that much, I'm still veering towards just going out to a town/city in the FSU for a while and just calling up girls there and then and date as the locals do get away from all the bs of online dating from afar. 

You will fail, you will bomb, you will not meet a single woman that way - at least none that is for marriage. Not with your attitude and your "skills"
All local men will "out-date" you in this way, you still don't understand how this is done online and you will fail miserably locally. Prepare for a lot of lonesome nights at the apartment crying yourself to sleep then.

Lets face it there is a lot of bs on these online dating sites and for the newbie its easy to be suckered into the wrong girl who is happy to meet all too quickly for whatever reason other than wanting a real relationship.

Yes and I have met all kinds, too young, too old, to much gold-digger and some wonderful women that just didn't click.

So I'm surprised you aren't yet stated you are committed to this girl Nightwish - Looks to me you have more than the input that many do before committing. I mean you have met all her extended family and all, are you perhaps in danger of being a bit too non-committal?
Didn't I write clearly that we on this trip made it "official", it's never been anything but committed I would say, just not spoken. we talked about it after my first trip, that we would keep it exclusive, but it never had to be said to be fait, both she and I feel the same way.

and as far as my job, its been a lot of planning free days,. going on a lot of 4 day weekend trips.. its only 5 hours from my home to Kiev so to speak.
I am not rich, I am not a business owner, I have a high paid normal job, 8-5 and one very understanding boss :)


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on July 18, 2017, 02:44:04 PM
I mean I don't think its too much to ask to ask the girl to do a little work so as to have her own money that she would just be spending on herself anyway (& maybe a bit for groceries) i.e clothing, beauty products, etc.


Not too much to ask at all, in fact it's quite preferable to have the wife work and contribute. I've seen more than one RW go stir crazy from nowhere to go and nothing to do. Lack of self worth, leads to nothing but trouble. Make her an active part of her own acclimation and self sufficiency drive. You WANT her to be successful in everything she does.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 04:18:57 PM

Not too much to ask at all, in fact it's quite preferable to have the wife work and contribute. I've seen more than one RW go stir crazy from nowhere to go and nothing to do. Lack of self worth, leads to nothing but trouble. Make her an active part of her own acclimation and self sufficiency drive. You WANT her to be successful in everything she does.

I agree Steamer, doing too much for someone that they don't feel any need to be motivated and takes person they're with for granted does no good. They can just end up dumping everything on the other half and that can get burdensome. 2tallbill's wife says he's wife does a part time job. Wall I do think you may have a tendency to see money as a device to use in this venture. Be careful I would say, I would play down money you have to a reasonable level. If girl picks up that you have money you will never know if she is with you for the right reasons until it is too late. I should have played down the money side of things more if anything and I'm not real rich. I remember Wall you saying you're girl asked if you are good for money and you laughed and nodded. I personally think that was a mistake, you may still be ok and I hope you are but I would be cautious if I were you. i.e she may be playing the long game.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 04:45:57 PM
Below is a link to another thread -- I did not post it here in this thread when I first saw it --  but --  I keep seeing the inane ideas of the op here -- it reminds me of all the potential for an abnormal relationship to go very wrong when a social misfit embarks on a cross cultural search.


Mail Order Murder

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22017.msg464768#msg464768

The documentary can be watched here--
The Perfect Bride

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4229048/

Like yourself perhaps JayH. After all you are still looking after 5 years. Sometimes it takes time for sure but how are we to know that you aren't a social misfit.

As for me I am not short, fat or balding. Of course many of us on this search probably don't percolate in the 'in crowd' of social activity or would be accepted readily by the very social types in society. That can of course be a problem when looking abroad.

I of course can see the comparison but it is a problem many in this venture no doubt face. Take Alexander the OP for example he got hit by a girl like that who was with him for the green card then upgraded. For a girl to be a guy for two years - All that time then just leave him is heartless.

What I'm saying is different to what the guy in the  episode is doing. Im saying be wary of that type in the first place and don't try to control a situation that has already gotten out of control. I don't see any harm in passively protecting the assets you've worked hard for and residency status of someone who may unjustly be interested in imitation rather than the original aim they stated of dating/relationship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 18, 2017, 07:44:18 PM
When they talk about two people being divided by a common language, most people here would assume WM and FSUW, simply because her English isn't native level, and guys have posted numerous (mainly humorous) examples over the years.  For me (and JayH and southernX, and possibly moby and sandro), it's real English versus American.

Now, there is another category - one which Trenchcoat inhabits all by himself.  I seriously cannot believe that, after all that has been written (even if you take this thread by itself), he can possibly still be interested in pursuing a long-term relationship with this woman.  While I doubt that many share his view that she is possibly a scammer, there is absolutely nothing she has done (from what has been written here) to make anyone think she is worth pursuing.  Just because she's 24 and 10/10 doesn't make her special ENOUGH - there are plenty of other Ukrainian women that match that categorisation, but who don't act the way she does.

For crying out loud, he has raised umpteen issues HIMSELF about what she's done that he doesn't like - and he STILL wants to carry on chasing her?  :cluebat:  All that's aside from the various issues which other posters have themselves noted.  I honestly can't recall anyone else in the years I've been a member who has not only been so blindly dogmatic about what he's doing, but insists that what he's doing, and how he's doing it, is the ONLY possible way - despite those who've been that way before (some of whom have quite possibly done exactly the same thing when they were young and foolish  :devil:) ALL telling him that it won't work.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 07:53:16 PM
at a rough adding up I'm guessing the clothes came to around £400 (possibly more think some more costs appeared on my credit card since I added this up), cosmetics & sprays around £200 and her half of the food bill around £400.


This is a cultural miscue on your part.  No, and I mean NO FSUM would ever expect a woman to take her on holiday and not pay for her food.  It's just foreign to the culture.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 07:55:59 PM
I bought her a pressure washer and she washes the house, the car


Pressure washers can damage/weaken car tires.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 07:59:54 PM
Sounds good Bill and a nice life to have :)

Well my present girl I don't know what her idea is in terms of when we live together. She has already stated she doesn't want to go 50/50. In UK I think she could get a job either in retail or basic management her language skills I think are good enough now for that.

At the moment she is throwing her toys out of the pram as she states that she first comes to me or we don't meet at all if I chose to come to Kherson. She is is stating that I am not serious about her because of this despite me visiting her in Kiev and paying for holiday in the sun. The visa she requires I think could likely come with many additional expenses as she currently has no bank account, etc. She seems to be upping the pressure. I just don't know as I don't know if I am going to go to all the expense and hassle of getting her said visa for her then to take of with some other guy. The fact that she is upping the pressure and getting more forceful I just don't like, its not a good sign in my mind. Yes she thinks I have a wife already but I have said to her about connecting on Facebook and stating relation as then if I had someone else it would come out. She says this proves nothing and is not interested, I disagree even though I am not a big fan of Facebook. My thoughts are still that is she was into me enough she would visit me wherever so I'm having my doubts. Also she has been logging onto her dating account recently, she says it was to check on me but I really wonder. I asked her to take her profile down of the search but she does not seem to know what I am getting at - she seems to think its a case of deleting account and wants us to do this together to be sure. Myself I wonder if its a delaying tactic that she is ling up blokes to meet in UK when she get the Visa and I will be sidelined. She apparently has a friend in UK so guessing she could alternatively chose to stay with her.

I personally wonder if she just wants a quick in to the UK and I am a convenient mule and so it doesn't matter if I'm not really rich as she can sort that out later, just so long as she gets in. Its why I really want to spend some time out in Ukraine whether with her or looking for a girl as I don;t want the whole visa/immigration thing to get in the way.


It's not easy to pick up and move to a new country.  And you are expecting a woman to get a job and earn her way from day 1 as well! 


Were she "lining up blokes", she would have asked her friend to prepare a visa for her from the get go, no need for you!


Perhaps moby can clarify, but I assumed that it is difficult for Ukrainians to obtain tourist visas to the UK.  If not, then I don't understand your hesitancy, since you are into this girl.  You don't have to marry her.   It would give you a good understanding of how she would adapt to life abroad, and you'll be in your element.  If I could have had my husband visit before we married, I would have jumped through every hoop possible to make it happen.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: southernX on July 18, 2017, 08:01:44 PM
First of all, I don't know how many hours exactly, but we spoke I would guess on average 3-4 hours every single day for 26 days before I could go. Sometimes just 2,5 hours on the phone, sometimes 1-2 hours skype and then 5 hours on the phone instead of sleeping. We where like a couple of teenagers talking endlessly on the phone. Sleeping is for the married couples :D

I can tell you exactly how this happened, I met one of her girlfriends online on a site almost 1,5 years ago, I talked to her for about 2-3 weeks and decided to come meet her, we had a good time, she was very sweet and nice, but there was something lacking in feelings, she felt a lot more like a very good friend the a potential future wife. So we decided we would just be friends. She then talked to Tanya at one time and said, "contact this man, he is a good man, he is serious and very attentive and very handsome"
So Tanya took contact on Viber, called me after about an hour of text-chatting and this all started.
She fell instantly for me as I did for her, everything felt amazing from day one. I did tell her from the start, I can't come to Ukraine until next month since I had a big project at work, and she only said - "good then we have plenty of time to get to know each other".
I wont write a whole trip-report, certainly not right now when I am with her.

But from that first day, she has called me maybe 70% of the times, when ever I called her, she giggled a bit and then tried to sneak away from what she was doing.. and when you have this chemistry, firstly there is no forbidden topics, secondly I WANT to, and really ENJOY talking to her, how could we run out of subjects? If you find yourself having a hard time finding things to talk about, especially if you dont live together - how possible?
We talk about everything that has happened in our life, memories, lifestories, politics, music, movies. We compare my life "in west" to hers in "the east", she can't really remember anything "Soviet" but she grew up during the Perestroika and the independence of Ukraine.
We enjoy talking about all the places we will visit when she comes here to live, what she wants to do with her life, where we want to live and what kind of life we want. So we always have things to talk about.. longest phonecall, night 3 or 4 I think it was, 9 hours straight.. we even had breakfast together on skype.. that is what 100% (LDR) chemistry is.. of course none of us planned it in advance, it was just that wonderful to have her in my life from day one.

I have - before I met Tanya - been to Ukraine 24 times in these 3 years or so I have been active, one of those was a longer relationship for about 7 months (8-9 visits) but in the end it fell apart for reasons that was out of our control, lets just say family issues.
The shortest time I talked online with someone before going there to meet her - 4 days
The longest time 1 month. Yes, I have met 25-30 girls during these 3,5 years, tried both WMVM  (and my preferred way) WOVO.

You will fail, you will bomb, you will not meet a single woman that way - at least none that is for marriage. Not with your attitude and your "skills"
All local men will "out-date" you in this way, you still don't understand how this is done online and you will fail miserably locally. Prepare for a lot of lonesome nights at the apartment crying yourself to sleep then.

Yes and I have met all kinds, too young, too old, to much gold-digger and some wonderful women that just didn't click.
Didn't I write clearly that we on this trip made it "official", it's never been anything but committed I would say, just not spoken. we talked about it after my first trip, that we would keep it exclusive, but it never had to be said to be fait, both she and I feel the same way.

and as far as my job, its been a lot of planning free days,. going on a lot of 4 day weekend trips.. its only 5 hours from my home to Kiev so to speak.
I am not rich, I am not a business owner, I have a high paid normal job, 8-5 and one very understanding boss :)

too tru night wish , very similar to my experience with my wife when we first met, it all just clicked and we both felt it was right to pursue it full on at every moment we could , i used to get up at midnight to talk in skype with her for 3-4 hours , weekends was up to 8-12 hours sometimes , not difficult when it feels right

SX
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: southernX on July 18, 2017, 08:04:00 PM

This is a cultural miscue on your part.  No, and I mean NO FSUM would ever expect a woman to take her on holiday and not pay for her food.  It's just foreign to the culture.

bo is correct here , this is a very basic miscue on your part mr trench,

SX
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 08:04:11 PM
OK I get it Nightwish you Skyped a lot and a lot of women that had ideas other than looking for a real relationship would have dropped out long before the 150 hours reached and various random phone calls in their day. Yes perhaps I should have done a lot more Skype hours before meeting this girl in the first place, but her English was apparently not good at the time and I assumed it was tiring on both of us. I  can still not be quite sure if she really does/did have bad English or was just faking it. If she was faking it she was keeping up the charade well, more recent she does seem to have improved when on holiday but still not 100 percent. She did of course do English at school & I have paid for English lessons (about 100 Euros for 10 lessons) so maybe it was a case of it all coming back to her I'm just not sure. My girl doesn't have a good job like yours, she earns a lot less no doubt. I was never after a girl for the job she does though I can see when it comes to shopping it would ease the situation.

I personally only have so much free time I can use Skype for, though I can see now that time spent on many hours on skype with girl can mean many hours not wasted on trips to see the wrong girl. That said of course there are those on here that would say a girl will get fed up if no meeting was forthcoming after Skyping a fair while.

I'm guessing you hit up quite a number of girls on Skype before you got to one that seemed to hit the mark Nightwish? in terms of willing to skype you back without any reason not too that may seem perfectly valid.

I'm still not keen on all the online/skype approach that much, I'm still veering towards just going out to a town/city in the FSU for a while and just calling up girls there and then and date as the locals do get away from all the bs of online dating from afar. 

Lets face it there is a lot of bs on these online dating sites and for the newbie its easy to be suckered into the wrong girl who is happy to meet all too quickly for whatever reason other than wanting a real relationship.

The girl I am with at the moment I'm really not sure its going to go long term. She just seems to want to come to UK and I doubt her motives. She's refusing at the moment to see me if I come to Kherson and if she was serious I don't think she would be doing that. If it comes to another go at this in the near future I am wanting to get out there and meet all these girls first hand without any bs in the way.

So I'm surprised you aren't yet stated you are committed to this girl Nightwish - Looks to me you have more than the input that many do before committing. I mean you have met all her extended family and all, are you perhaps in danger of being a bit too non-committal?


First, congratulations, Nightwish.


No, Trench, you missed the point Nighwish was making.  You have to have interests besides bed to have a successful relationship.  His relationship with this woman is successful because they can speak on any topic, and stay engaged with one another.  This person should be the most interesting person in your universe, to you. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 08:05:23 PM
Well its really is a very short list Bill, basically I want a girl with:

-Natural Chemistry
-Genuinely wants a Serious, Committed Relationship
-Wants Children pretty soon
-Willing to make sacrifices for the Relationship
-Willing to do part time work to afford herself her own spending money
-Preferably no Children already as I would prefer a clean slate


I mean I don't think its too much to ask to ask the girl to do a little work so as to have her own money that she would just be spending on herself anyway (& maybe a bit for groceries) i.e clothing, beauty products, etc.

I'm happy paying the main big costs like accommodation, taxes, utility bills, car running costs, flights, all my own shopping costs and the odd occasional shopping costs of hers. I mean it doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I'm not asking for her to go 50/50, just hold a bit of her own self-weight financially. Essentially I am allowing any money she earns as free spending money to spend on herself her own leisure which she apparently doesn't have at the moment it goes on her half of apartment rental cost. So she would be getting a far better deal than she is at present but no she seems to want to be disagreeable to me going to Kherson to advance our relationship and instead seems happy staying in her present predicament which is worse off than I am offering her.

Part of my issue is if she doesn't work at all to pay for anything, her own clothes, etc then she is not going to respect my money. The best I can do then is say here's X amount of money for the month, that's it. I can just see her spending X amount on herself then coming back for more before the month is out. i.e if she doesn't earn it she just won't care as its not her money being spent or wasted.


So what are you giving her?  What sacrifices are you willing to make for the relationship?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 08:07:20 PM

Not too much to ask at all, in fact it's quite preferable to have the wife work and contribute. I've seen more than one RW go stir crazy from nowhere to go and nothing to do. Lack of self worth, leads to nothing but trouble. Make her an active part of her own acclimation and self sufficiency drive. You WANT her to be successful in everything she does.


But you want that so that she is happy.  Not because you want her to pull her economic weight in the relationship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 08:08:40 PM
I agree Steamer, doing too much for someone that they don't feel any need to be motivated and takes person they're with for granted does no good. They can just end up dumping everything on the other half and that can get burdensome. 2tallbill's wife says he's wife does a part time job. Wall I do think you may have a tendency to see money as a device to use in this venture. Be careful I would say, I would play down money you have to a reasonable level. If girl picks up that you have money you will never know if she is with you for the right reasons until it is too late. I should have played down the money side of things more if anything and I'm not real rich. I remember Wall you saying you're girl asked if you are good for money and you laughed and nodded. I personally think that was a mistake, you may still be ok and I hope you are but I would be cautious if I were you. i.e she may be playing the long game.


For the average Ukrainian, every Westerner has money.  So this "advice" is silly.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 18, 2017, 08:56:09 PM
Well its really is a very short list Bill, basically I want a girl with:

-Natural Chemistry
-Genuinely wants a Serious, Committed Relationship
-Wants Children pretty soon
-Willing to make sacrifices for the Relationship
-Willing to do part time work to afford herself her own spending money
-Preferably no Children already as I would prefer a clean slate

Where is the 50/50 part?
You posted all those goals in a few lines but couldn't do it with
your financial goals for her which was long and rambling. You
need to get those goals in simple, concise one line statements
as well.

Write them again and again until they are S.M.A.R.T.

Goals have to be Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant
and Timely and especially not rambling. FSUW don't do vague.

She won't be able to work immediately and the job probably
won't pay much and she will need a ton of help and support
especially in the beginning. Moving to a new country, culture,
language and leaving everything behind is a real tough challenge
and putting financial pressure on her will cause enormous grief.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on July 18, 2017, 10:08:20 PM
Wall I do think you may have a tendency to see money as a device to use in this venture. Be careful I would say, I would play down money you have to a reasonable level. If girl picks up that you have money you will never know if she is with you for the right reasons until it is too late. I should have played down the money side of things more if anything and I'm not real rich. I remember Wall you saying you're girl asked if you are good for money and you laughed and nodded. I personally think that was a mistake, you may still be ok and I hope you are but I would be cautious if I were you. i.e she may be playing the long game.

I can't help but shake my head. ::) I do not use money as device. I am not taking her shopping and then bitching about it. She asked me in the first week we spent together if I need my future wife to work immediately upon coming to the US. I said no. I explained it will take her a year or two to assimilate into the culture and lifestyle. She will have to learn the language via ESL classes. Then if she wants to work, I will support her. I am sure she will work because she is smart, educated and won't be happy not working. But once she is here, her welfare is my responsibility. FSUW want their man to provide for the family and protect them.

I can't think everyone is a scammer. I am not a suspicious rat like you. I can't think along the lines of her "playing the long game." This is not golf. I know what to do if I suspect something is amiss. The lady I am pursuing works two jobs. She is educated and independent. She has yet to ask me for anything. I paid for all our travel in Ukraine, food, taxis. She doesn't make enough to afford some of that. I never for a second thought about why I am paying. Moreover, she needs to understand I can take care of her, provide for her. I am not a cheap SOB.;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on July 18, 2017, 10:10:10 PM
Nightwish, sounds like you got a woman that is "into you". That is what every newbie should be going after. If a guy settles for less, he'll get less.



Pressure washers can damage/weaken car tires.

Car tires support thousands of pounds, roll down the street 100 mph in 100 degree plus heat and survive for years and discarded only because there isn't enough tread left to provide adequate traction in wet or icy conditions. Car tires are much tougher than house paint yet professionals use pressure washers to clean the siding of a house before repainting. The secret is to hold the pressure washer far away enough to not damage the item to be cleaned but close enough to get the dirt off. With high enough pressure, water is used to cut steel but the pressure washers aren't that powerful but it will cut skin or peel paint. It can damage the rubber of a tire if improperly applied at point blank range.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 18, 2017, 10:17:04 PM
. . . the pressure washers aren't that powerful but it will cut skin or peel paint.


Good point.

I think I will try using a pressure washer to give myself a facial dermabrasion.
Cheaper than going to a doc.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 11:19:09 PM
Where is the 50/50 part?
You posted all those goals in a few lines but couldn't do it with
your financial goals for her which was long and rambling. You
need to get those goals in simple, concise one line statements
as well.

Write them again and again until they are S.M.A.R.T.

Goals have to be Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant
and Timely and especially not rambling. FSUW don't do vague.

She won't be able to work immediately and the job probably
won't pay much and she will need a ton of help and support
especially in the beginning. Moving to a new country, culture,
language and leaving everything behind is a real tough challenge
and putting financial pressure on her will cause enormous grief.

There's no 50/50 part for finances Bill. I initially just raised it with girl as an example of how Western Man & Women often go about financing the relationship.

I don't expect her to go 50/50 or anything close. All I want is her to get a part time job, not necessarily immediately but over time so to cover her clothes shopping habits. Otherwise as I see it she will have no clue about how much it all costs, go overboard and burden me with large expenses.

So may financial goal for her:

- Get a basic pay job as soon as she can to pay for her clothes shopping habit.

She has quite good English now and can come across well, I don't think she would have as much of a problem as some on here think. It would just be a question of finding the right fit for her.

Of course I would pay the main costs of the relationship, all if needs be. It just makes sense to me for the relationship for the girl to work part time to ease the expenses.

Honestly, she's lucky I'm not a Scotsman, they're world renown for being exceedingly tight :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 11:23:50 PM

For the average Ukrainian, every Westerner has money.  So this "advice" is silly.

Then they assume all westerners are good for a good shaking down through foreign dating ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 11:43:13 PM

So what are you giving her?  What sacrifices are you willing to make for the relationship?

What am I giving her:

-Myself ;D
-My Love
-A Family of her own (when she has children)
-An easier lifestyle than before (instead of working all hours under the sun she will work just a few)
-A better place to live (granted it is not a mansion but its still much better than a crumbling Soviet apartment block, a bit more roomy too)
-Financial spending power of her own (she will not longer have to put all her money over to rent each month, in fact none of what she earns will be, she be able to keep it and spend or save it for herself)
-A country where the money she earns is worth more than at home (so she can earn her monthly wage in about 2-3 days here for the whole month, if she work 2-3 days per week she would earn far more than her monthly wage)

I am willing to bear the financial cost of immigration, visits, courting, etc as I have paid for the two holidays to date. I have even bought her some clothes so she will no longer have to walk around in rags  ;)

All I ask in return is a bit of loyalty. I am of course assuming she has a genuine wish to be with me on some meaningful level to me rather than just as a mule to get into the UK. I am somewhat doubtful of loyalty from her though judging from her recent behaviour of 1. Hitting me with clothes & cosmetics shopping bill & 2. Logging onto her online dating site (she says it was just to check I wasn't, hmmn :-\
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: southernX on July 19, 2017, 01:21:59 AM
trench    :cluebat:

you need to stop asap and reflect on what your describing to us about your future wife here

seriously the level of resentment coming through is only going to grow amd it is going to kill it between you both at some point into the future anyway ..

resentment is already stalking you from how you describe her habits & forecast her future , proceeding is not a good idea,

get out now while you can cleanly , then wait , reflect, do some self discovery on what you really want before you move on again

i know you will possibly reject this , but time will likely prove the point to you in the negative

SX
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on July 19, 2017, 05:19:57 AM

But you want that so that she is happy.  Not because you want her to pull her economic weight in the relationship.


There is nothing wrong with having both.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 19, 2017, 08:32:16 AM
trench    :cluebat:

you need to stop asap and reflect on what your describing to us about your future wife here

seriously the level of resentment coming through is only going to grow amd it is going to kill it between you both at some point into the future anyway ..

resentment is already stalking you from how you describe her habits & forecast her future , proceeding is not a good idea,

get out now while you can cleanly , then wait , reflect, do some self discovery on what you really want before you move on again

i know you will possibly reject this , but time will likely prove the point to you in the negative

SX

So what are you saying, was I unreasonable about the clothes shopping? I mean like I said to her I don't mind a little bit occasionally but I don't want such a clothes shopping trip all the time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Muzh on July 19, 2017, 08:52:45 AM
So what are you saying, was I unreasonable about the clothes shopping? I mean like I said to her I don't mind a little bit occasionally but I don't want such a clothes shopping trip all the time.


What he is saying is that you are hiring a maid (with benefits) not marrying a wife.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 19, 2017, 10:03:21 AM

What he is saying is that you are hiring a maid (with benefits) not marrying a wife.

Oh I see, thank you Muhz. Yes then that is probably right, she said she was not too young for me and seemed to be into having children in the near future. I think though that I did not take into consideration that she while thinking she was at the stage of family, i.e children was really still not departed from her urges of a young female to put fashion/clothing etc first.

I see now I should have really stuck with my plan to aim at 30 something females and moving away from this was a mistake.

As you correctly say Muhz she is vibrant girlfriend rather than wife material, she may or may not change, but I fear she is a few years of from that if it happens at all. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 19, 2017, 10:31:04 AM
Trench


It is Muzh as in husband ..not Muhz  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 19, 2017, 07:11:20 PM
I $%#%^@#@$%#^#$%^& give up!  :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

Never in my worst nightmares could I imagine someone in this scenario actually CONTINUING to chase the woman in question.

 :naughty: :naughty: :naughty: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :puke: :puke: :puke: :trainwreck: :trainwreck: :trainwreck:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: southernX on July 19, 2017, 10:35:52 PM

What he is saying is that you are hiring a maid (with benefits) not marrying a wife.

pretty much correct

trench you seem to be looking at this woman like purchasing an acreage of land , what will it cost you , what can you get it to produce ?? what income or growth will it give you in the long term for what you are investing ??  WHATS THE RETURN ??

your language here shows resentment towards her already , you seem to be looking for some sort of payback from her ??  or that she will accept your control and expectations on her ??  that it is some sort of gift she should be ever so thankfull for

you made the choice to spend on her , so you are to blame if she has gained that outlook from the outset , it would seem you where so keen to win her attention you allowed yourself to depart from your usual  habits and you now are annoyed/resentful  about it & seem to blame her  and want to get back to the norm    ??

to my mind she and you are not suited from what you write ,

cleanly ,calmly talk with this lady and make it clear you will go to her to meet , if not , then walk away asap .  if you both are hoping to make this work into the future then there should be no need to wish to hide or misrepresent to each other at this stage

total honesty   and see how it flys for you both , and try to lose your fear of being ripped off , it will close you down to all manner of oportunities

SX
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on July 19, 2017, 10:50:02 PM
WHATS THE RETURN ??


So far the only return has been sex. Sex can be addicting and has been known to prevent men from thinking straight and open their wallets.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on July 20, 2017, 07:14:54 AM
trench you seem to be looking at this woman like purchasing an acreage of land, what will it cost you , what can you get it to produce ?? what income or growth will it give you in the long term for what you are investing ??  WHATS THE RETURN ??

Have you ever noticed that this is exactly how RU/W look at you? It's all business until they feel comfortable with you. Sure it can be off-putting but it's their dating protocol.

your language here shows resentment towards her already , you seem to be looking for some sort of payback from her ??

Not resentment but caution. Suspicion  can serve you well.





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on July 22, 2017, 08:03:59 AM
Reading this thread makes me think of the 'worst' of all possible worlds (deals).

On one side one party who wants to maximize the benefits.

On the other side a 'partner; who wants to maximize the future benefits.

That anyone considers uses or thinks of about love, with regards to the above thread, we are discussing an alien abstract concept.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on July 22, 2017, 08:05:52 AM
What am I giving her:

-Myself ;D
-My Love
-A Family of her own (when she has children)
-An easier lifestyle than before (instead of working all hours under the sun she will work just a few)
-A better place to live (granted it is not a mansion but its still much better than a crumbling Soviet apartment block, a bit more roomy too)
-Financial spending power of her own (she will not longer have to put all her money over to rent each month, in fact none of what she earns will be, she be able to keep it and spend or save it for herself)
-A country where the money she earns is worth more than at home (so she can earn her monthly wage in about 2-3 days here for the whole month, if she work 2-3 days per week she would earn far more than her monthly wage)

I am willing to bear the financial cost of immigration, visits, courting, etc as I have paid for the two holidays to date. I have even bought her some clothes so she will no longer have to walk around in rags  ;)

All I ask in return is a bit of loyalty. I am of course assuming she has a genuine wish to be with me on some meaningful level to me rather than just as a mule to get into the UK. I am somewhat doubtful of loyalty from her though judging from her recent behaviour of 1. Hitting me with clothes & cosmetics shopping bill & 2. Logging onto her online dating site (she says it was just to check I wasn't, hmmn :-\

You may think you are giving a girl plenty..... but she is getting very little......... being with you
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 23, 2017, 09:02:47 PM

They used to call it two birds of a feather.  ;)

He may have a slight problem with color recognition.

Mixing up the Cuban and Puerto Rico flag wouldn't be his greatest sin.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on July 26, 2017, 08:28:26 AM
Whenever you hear the words "real man" from an FSUW, you are being manipulated, or there is an attempt at manipulation.  BTW, a FSUM would not be buying his woman clothes, unless she's his wife, or he's wealthy and she's a disposable side piece. 

What is the age difference?

How are you going to support yourself if you move to Ukraine?

Trench print that out and tape it to the fridge door.


As I've learned more of the language, slang ,and social nuances ,over the years,  I can often tell in 5 minutes where a new immigrant here is from socially. (And likely geographically)
 You are going to a economically depressed area in comparison to your own.
 In your own country are there not areas you'd be less likely to date from because despite *exceptions*
The general culture of the area has people being a bit more rude and crude than you'd enjoy living with?
(Here it occurs in both country and city settings depending on ones own background how comfortable you area with it.)

This subject ,because its uncomfortable, is always glossed over on here.
 Most men here wouldn't go to a rough inner city area to date but the fsu is fine.if they had half an understanding of just slang snd phrases used, a huge percent of women they meet would likely turn them off in 15 minutes of conversation.
  I see newly married couples here at times where if he understood what she says just in jest in  Russian his jaw would be on the floor and be very uncomfortable.
Obviously in time they'll know each other better and hopefully *love conquers all* will ring true.
  Despite *education* a lot of the fsu is pretty rough and tumble, downright crude. Many men date in areas of thst culture they wouldn't at home,simple because they can't tell the difference there. They havnt lived there long enough to understand the differences of what someone's background is.That can (yes not always ) greatly effect the person's outlook on life and compatibility.That is likely the single biggest reason men continually run into users there. They are dating in a social circle where, if in their in country ,they would certainly find a high percentage of users and that mentality as well.

Ive seen this since 97, lol but its much more clearly visable now .


The old adage of a girl from  poor area  with a heart of gold exists for sure,but the odds are if she was raised in a culture of a *bucket if crabs* she will instead have that life outlook.it's how she was raised, what's socially acceptable to her parents and peers etc etc.

I'm from a poor farm background,think hillbilly redneck and yet a great deal.of Russian culture can truly shock me lol.
So when I see urban professionals from a while color background dating from  the mires and dregs of fsu culture while routinely avoiding  Chicago's south side.. or the trailer parks in small farm towns it makes me shake my head.
Yes they could find more likely comparable segments of fsu society,but the big picture is a lot more of the place is rougher than is assumed by someone not living there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 26, 2017, 11:35:32 AM
Trench print that out and tape it to the fridge door.


As I've learned more of the language, slang ,and social nuances ,over the years,  I can often tell in 5 minutes where a new immigrant here is from socially. (And likely geographically)
 You are going to a economically depressed area in comparison to your own.
 In your own country are there not areas you'd be less likely to date from because despite *exceptions*
The general culture of the area has people being a bit more rude and crude than you'd enjoy living with?
(Here it occurs in both country and city settings depending on ones own background how comfortable you area with it.)

This subject ,because its uncomfortable, is always glossed over on here.
 Most men here wouldn't go to a rough inner city area to date but the fsu is fine.if they had half an understanding of just slang snd phrases used, a huge percent of women they meet would likely turn them off in 15 minutes of conversation.
  I see newly married couples here at times where if he understood what she says just in jest in  Russian his jaw would be on the floor and be very uncomfortable.
Obviously in time they'll know each other better and hopefully *love conquers all* will ring true.
  Despite *education* a lot of the fsu is pretty rough and tumble, downright crude. Many men date in areas of thst culture they wouldn't at home,simple because they can't tell the difference there. They havnt lived there long enough to understand the differences of what someone's background is.That can (yes not always ) greatly effect the person's outlook on life and compatibility.That is likely the single biggest reason men continually run into users there. They are dating in a social circle where, if in their in country ,they would certainly find a high percentage of users and that mentality as well.

Ive seen this since 97, lol but its much more clearly visable now .


The old adage of a girl from  poor area  with a heart of gold exists for sure,but the odds are if she was raised in a culture of a *bucket if crabs* she will instead have that life outlook.it's how she was raised, what's socially acceptable to her parents and peers etc etc.

I'm from a poor farm background,think hillbilly redneck and yet a great deal.of Russian culture can truly shock me lol.
So when I see urban professionals from a while color background dating from  the mires and dregs of fsu culture while routinely avoiding  Chicago's south side.. or the trailer parks in small farm towns it makes me shake my head.
Yes they could find more likely comparable segments of fsu society,but the big picture is a lot more of the place is rougher than is assumed by someone not living there.

You are right Jumper, I have been surprised by the dirt poor background many Ukrainians seem to come from. In UK it is the Council Estates that are the ones to avoid. I'm from a working class background myself but have never lived on a Council Estate, I have been through them and occasionally mixed with people from them, some are nice decent people but there are a lot that are to be avoided and be wary off. Not to say nasty people don't exist elsewhere, I also live near a very wealthy area and well you can imagine how some of those people in the wealthy area tread on others, use others, treat other and be downright nasty in a different way to the Council Estate crowd just to get where they are and stay there. I always believe in treating people decently so I am unlikely to get wealthy enough to live in such an area, not to say they are all like that, some use their brain but may be a bit aloof, some is inheritance or pure luck, etc. Few I think is a case of hard work merely by their own efforts normally it requires employing the work of others to get that wealthy.

I see what you mean, yes the girl has a strong manipulative streak - she think she tells me how it is going to be and can force me into what she wants through just repeating her position and not budging. That is not going to happen, its on my terms or nothing not hers. I know I am looking within a pool of women that come from deprived areas but avoiding that can be like avoiding a huge pool of women. Possibly you may be right and I should go for a girl that has a career or like you say I will keep turning them up. That or I find a girl that really doesn't want to screw things up with me because she is so into me. I will off course be a lot more aware in future of the type of girls like you mention that exist out there. Its not always as easy for WM to tell I think as they don't often know the language and the girls can be a lot cleaner looking than at home and have personal hygiene standards - so in that respect they are a lot better brought up at least, lol. My girl for example doesn't have tattoos, doesn't smoke or like smoke environments, drinks little alcohol, showers twice daily and takes of shoes at the door, appreciates cleanliness. Still it is not looking good with her because of her forceful attitude and stubbornness on subjects which is putting a barrier between us. I am not going to give in as ill be looking for a guy if possible to switch to during the course of the holiday - she's a pretty girl and I can image many a young buck having a crack at her that are even within spitting range of her. I'm not going to be used like that and let some guy have her who can't be arsed to do the leg work himself and go over there for his convenience.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 26, 2017, 12:10:33 PM
Jeez, So now our Trench is a flipping snob ...   :(

It was Margaret Thatcher's offer to allow 'Council House' folk to own their houses that created the Tory Middle Class and kept Labour out of power for over a decade - allowing her to dismantle Union power

My first wife was a Council House lass .. because her Dad, got her Mum up the duff and cleared off abroad ..   Much as there are some regrets I have about marrying her - her being some of the things you describe - as were many of her friends - who have gone on from their non-too proud backgrounds to great things..

Where you born with your foot in your gob ?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 26, 2017, 01:34:07 PM
I'm not sure I would think of someone owning their council house as middle class Moby. Many did vote for Thatcher as a result but to many in UK a council estate is still a down market area regardless if the council house is privately owned. Everyone in the UK knows that there are a certain sub type of people in the UK known as scrotes. They are basically trouble making types often from the council estates. These are the type to avoid in the UK. I was looking over a UK landlord forum not long ago. Some crazy woman from Australia who had recently moved to UK got the idea into her head that buying terraced housing in Liverpool was a good idea in order to rent out, lol. She was completely oblivious to the type of residents she would be able to rent out to (scrotes) who of course would not have paid her any rent at all and it would take her months to evict them. Respondents were literally screaming at her not to attempt to do this it was such a bad idea but of course she had no idea as she was from out of the country. I imagine the same is true of me and Ukraine as one Krimster allured to many in the poor areas are after anything they can get their hands on however they can.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on July 26, 2017, 02:32:39 PM
Why are you concerned about other men taking a crack at her?
  Women are hit on all the time in the fsu or in western culture.
Accept it, as  that's a given.
 
  Not once in my life have I worried about such.  I'm either the man she truly wants to be with, or I'm not.
No point in fretting it.

Let me ask you something,
How often do you sees a confident cavalier guy lacking female attention?

How often do you see a man lacking self confidence, being a nervous , and self protective, naive  type lacking female attention?

Relative wealth has little to do with it generally.

Anyway, it is just something to consider.


 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 26, 2017, 03:40:12 PM
Why are you concerned about other men taking a crack at her?
  Women are hit on all the time in the fsu or in western culture.
Accept it, as  that's a given.
 
  Not once in my life have I worried about such.  I'm either the man she truly wants to be with, or I'm not.
No point in fretting it.

Let me ask you something,
How often do you sees a confident cavalier guy lacking female attention?

How often do you see a man lacking self confidence, being a nervous , and self protective, naive  type lacking female attention?

Relative wealth has little to do with it generally.

Anyway, it is just something to consider.

Too true Jumper but it's kind of set the sort of person you are its not really a choice otherwise we would all be choosing the latter. I can be confident on many things though overall as a character trait it probably doesn't show.

Well I think I've worked out what's happening I think she doesn't want me visiting as she doesn't want to mess her reputation up for getting with local guys in future if it doesnt work out with foriegners if word gets out that she's been slutting around with foriegn guys. I think she's just after a foreign guy for immigration purposes she'll leave guy thereafter. I think I need a girl that is more committed to me than she seemed of recent.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 26, 2017, 04:35:13 PM
I'm not sure I would think of someone owning their council house as middle class Moby.

Seeing as some ex-council houses are now worth more than a million Pounds and their owners could sell up and buy a luxury 5 five house in Gloucestershire and have 40 percent left-over - I know different ...

Many did vote for Thatcher as a result but to many in UK a council estate is still a down market area regardless if the council house is privately owned.

Especially folk with no right to look down their noses...

Everyone in the UK knows that there are a certain sub type of people in the UK known as scrotes.

''Everyone?'
 1/ Never heard of the (derogatory?) term before !
 2/ I long, long, long time ago stopped judging books by covers - realising the folly of such thoughts..

They are basically trouble making types often from the council estates. These are the type to avoid in the UK. I was looking over a UK landlord forum not long ago. Some crazy woman from Australia who had recently moved to UK got the idea into her head that buying terraced housing in Liverpool was a good idea in order to rent out, lol. She was completely oblivious to the type of residents she would be able to rent out to (scrotes) who of course would not have paid her any rent at all and it would take her months to evict them. Respondents were literally screaming at her not to attempt to do this it was such a bad idea but of course she had no idea as she was from out of the country. I imagine the same is true of me and Ukraine as one Krimster allured to many in the poor areas are after anything they can get their hands on however they can.

You really must be an avid Daily Mail or Sun reader ... You post the same sort of guff that appeals to the sort of reader they attract. They'll mostly believe anything.

Plenty of private landlords / housing associations rent out to families in less attractive neighbourhoods in Liverpool and get paid by the state.   

As, ever - you find one example of 'bad' and use it to fit your glass half full life and mistrust of people.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 26, 2017, 05:30:40 PM
They used to be ever since Universal Credit was introduced they can no longer be paid by the state. Money gets paid direct to recipients like it used to way back. So are they goin to pass on money within that for their housing costs? In many cases hell no, particularly as they ate getting less than before under the old system.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 27, 2017, 03:05:23 AM
They used to be ever since Universal Credit was introduced they can no longer be paid by the state. Money gets paid direct to recipients like it used to way back. So are they goin to pass on money within that for their housing costs? In many cases hell no, particularly as they ate getting less than before under the old system.

Oh Dear Trenchcoat, when WILL you learn to read up on such stuff ?

Those who cannot be trusted to pay state funded private rents can have their rent paid directly... They need only be a month behind - have  a bad record or request such an arrangement

Two months arrears ? The Landlord can apply for the payments for the housing part of Universal Credit to be paid directly

http://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/universal_credit_housing_costs/when_universal_credit_can_be_paid_direct_to_a_landlord (http://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/universal_credit_housing_costs/when_universal_credit_can_be_paid_direct_to_a_landlord)


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 27, 2017, 04:32:24 AM
...Everyone in the UK knows that there are a certain sub type of people in the UK known as scrotes. They are basically trouble making types often from the council estates. These are the type to avoid in the UK.

''Everyone?'
 1/ Never heard of the (derogatory?) term before !

You're slipping, Moby!  I've known that term for years - although usually spelt "scroats."
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 28, 2017, 09:09:49 AM
You're slipping, Moby!  I've known that term for years - although usually spelt "scroats."

Hardly 'slipping' - I clearly don't move in the company who classify others in such a derogatory fashion - of that I'm proud - if that's 'ignorance' ;) !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 28, 2017, 10:33:30 PM
Hardly 'slipping' - I clearly don't move in the company who classify others in such a derogatory fashion - of that I'm proud - if that's 'ignorance' ;) !

There are many, MANY word in the English language which I do not use - and certainly many of those are derogatory.  However, that doesn't mean I haven't heard, or heard of, them.

As for "scroats/scrotes," I would hazard a guess that it is derived from "scrotum," and may therefore (at least originally) have been referring to someone's balls (or lack thereof).
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 28, 2017, 11:19:12 PM

As for "scroats/scrotes," I would hazard a guess that it is derived from "scrotum," and may therefore (at least originally) have been referring to someone's balls (or lack thereof).

Think it may be time for Sandro, but I seem to remember some Latin 'thief' connection ?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 29, 2017, 07:43:53 AM
The Oxford Dictionary says:
Quote
Scrote
British informal: A contemptible person.
Origin: 1970s: from scrotum.

The Latin word for thief is fur, furis hence the Italian furto (theft).
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 30, 2017, 03:18:22 PM
As I've learned more of the language, slang ,and social nuances ,over the years,  I can often tell in 5 minutes where a new immigrant here is from socially. (And likely geographically)
 You are going to a economically depressed area in comparison to your own.
 In your own country are there not areas you'd be less likely to date from because despite *exceptions*
The general culture of the area has people being a bit more rude and crude than you'd enjoy living with?
(Here it occurs in both country and city settings depending on ones own background how comfortable you area with it.)

This subject ,because its uncomfortable, is always glossed over on here.
 Most men here wouldn't go to a rough inner city area to date but the fsu is fine.if they had half an understanding of just slang snd phrases used, a huge percent of women they meet would likely turn them off in 15 minutes of conversation.
  I see newly married couples here at times where if he understood what she says just in jest in  Russian his jaw would be on the floor and be very uncomfortable.
Obviously in time they'll know each other better and hopefully *love conquers all* will ring true.
  Despite *education* a lot of the fsu is pretty rough and tumble, downright crude. Many men date in areas of thst culture they wouldn't at home,simple because they can't tell the difference there. They havnt lived there long enough to understand the differences of what someone's background is.That can (yes not always ) greatly effect the person's outlook on life and compatibility.That is likely the single biggest reason men continually run into users there. They are dating in a social circle where, if in their in country ,they would certainly find a high percentage of users and that mentality as well.

Ive seen this since 97, lol but its much more clearly visable now .


The old adage of a girl from  poor area  with a heart of gold exists for sure,but the odds are if she was raised in a culture of a *bucket if crabs* she will instead have that life outlook.it's how she was raised, what's socially acceptable to her parents and peers etc etc.

I'm from a poor farm background,think hillbilly redneck and yet a great deal.of Russian culture can truly shock me lol.
So when I see urban professionals from a while color background dating from  the mires and dregs of fsu culture while routinely avoiding  Chicago's south side.. or the trailer parks in small farm towns it makes me shake my head.
Yes they could find more likely comparable segments of fsu society,but the big picture is a lot more of the place is rougher than is assumed by someone not living there.


Hmm.

Soviets are all from the same class - the working class.  The educated classes were mostly destroyed, and those that weren't were persecuted and lived in poverty.  So, most everyone now is from that "working class".

I haven't noticed much difference in how members of the former working class speak.  I do recall watching a documentary on Galina Brezhnev's life, and she was exceptionally vulgar, using language only sailors would use.

I think, if one wants a sort of "fast and loose" rule to delineate potential partners, look at whether a woman wants a family life. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 30, 2017, 07:59:22 PM
The Oxford Dictionary says:
The Latin word for thief is fur, furis hence the Italian furto (theft).




Thank you
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 01, 2017, 05:01:28 AM

Hmm.

Soviets are all from the same class - the working class.  The educated classes were mostly destroyed, and those that weren't were persecuted and lived in poverty.  So, most everyone now is from that "working class".

I haven't noticed much difference in how members of the former working class speak.  I do recall watching a documentary on Galina Brezhnev's life, and she was exceptionally vulgar, using language only sailors would use.

I think, if one wants a sort of "fast and loose" rule to delineate potential partners, look at whether a woman wants a family life.

That's interesting stuff Boethius. I used to study History a fair bit back in the day and twentieth century history was one of my favourite periods. Particularly on Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, etc. So it is interesting to hear you that most everyone is still essentially working class even if they are have gained some wealth, decent job, etc. Would stand to reason I guess, but I wondered if people there had formed a new middle or upper class over time with associated change in social etiquette.

So that would mean your essentially working class to then Beothius? ;D Despite your well paid job.

So when you refer to certain sections of society using the 'Real Man' term does that not apply to most all Ukrainians/Russians since they are all working class? or perhaps just those that live in the concrete tenement blocks?

Which is where my girl comes from the concrete tenement blocks. When she speaks in English at least she is not at all vulgar, I don't get the impression she normally would be but who knows maybe when speaking Russian/in her home neighbourhood. If anything when with her she seems more fussy than I about etiquette, taking shoes off when walking inside apartment/hotel, personal grooming (I do more of this when with her than usual of course ;) )     
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 01, 2017, 09:26:08 AM
Working class=anyone who was not part of the middle class or nobility before the Revolution.  It doesn't have the same meaning as in the West.  It is also a mentality.


I have seen their new Soviet "elite", who became the "elite" of post Soviet society, and most of them are boors when it comes to social manners.


Every Soviet takes their shoes off when they enter a home.  I think it's a throwback to coming from rural backgrounds.  Most people do so where I live as well.  Most FSU individuals, other than drunkards, are well groomed.  In school every morning, their ears and nails were inspected, as was the cleanliness of their school uniforms.


The "real man" you heard is only used for manipulation.  Or, as the better half would say, "by sluts and prostitutes".



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 01, 2017, 10:59:53 AM
The "real man" you heard is only used for manipulation.  Or, as the better half would say, "by sluts and prostitutes".

I remember the real man jokes of the 1970's and 1980's

How many real men does it take to change a lightbulb?
None, real men aren't afraid of the dark.

What does a real man do to satisfy a woman during sex?
Nothing real men don't care.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 01, 2017, 08:56:07 PM
I don't remember those.  I've explained, use of the term has a completely different meaning in Russian.  When it is used as "a real man would buy me XXX/show up when I demand it, notwithstanding your own schedule/etc.", it's manipulation.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 01, 2017, 10:45:17 PM
I don't remember those.  I've explained, use of the term has a completely different meaning in Russian.  When it is used as "a real man would buy me XXX/show up when I demand it, notwithstanding your own schedule/etc.", it's manipulation.

Hmmnn, that reminds me last year the second girl I met said that 'a real man would travel to meet her in her home city of Nikolaev' Which I did. Interesting to see the place but travelling out to these places takes time and effort. Visiting girls home city is no doubt best but should have gone with adequate back up plan and time allowance if it did not work out, which it did not - there was just no chemistry there. She seemed straight up enough, even used public transport to get home after date.

I can see it can be used for manipulation Boethius but is it necessarily always meant in a bad deceitful way or just sometimes a playful way, just to try and win an argument with?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 01, 2017, 10:52:59 PM
I'm basing this on:


a)  being a woman; and
b)  knowing the culture.

It's not something said in sincerity, unless as I described earlier (ETA, here  http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22008.msg464506#msg464506 ).


How it was used with you was to get you to jump through hoops.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 01, 2017, 10:56:15 PM
It doesn't take much to Google "real man", a website name and look at the profiles to see how today's FSU women define "Real Man". The profiles at Bride.ru are written by the women in the profiles, not some agency employee. Yes, I can agree some women use the term to get their way from men but most women define it as something good. I could list many more profiles but I don't have the time. People here can do their own homework. We don't need to speculate anymore.

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/931/931823P1.html

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/1014/1014943P1.html

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/975/975909P1.html

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/930/930793P7.html
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 01, 2017, 11:19:35 PM
There are several levels of working class in the west.
Some you'd be comfortable with beo, some you likely wouldn't.

The same is true in the fsu.
Yes I understand the meaning of the term from soviet times and before, I was
pointing out there is a level of pretty rough characters that many westerners can relate to in  their culture .
It's areas they generally wouldn't go much less date.
Good luck with the typical western guy with zero language skills, and no idea of slang to discern that in their interview /date pattern many use.
Heck that very method of lpoking attracts from the shady crowd mostly to begin with.

I'm not knocking anyone,or any social level, I just shake me head at where and whom guys will date there,when no way would they do so at home.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 01, 2017, 11:21:05 PM
But, but, but, LOOK at her.

I witnessed the "elite" licking plates at dinner parties I was compelled to attend.  The better half, whose grandmother used to put books under his arms when he was eating, to teach him how far your elbows can protrude when dining, was appalled, but not surprised. 

I think one should look at attitudes.  If the person has a good heart, the rest can be learned.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2017, 01:11:29 AM
But, but, but, LOOK at her.

I witnessed the "elite" licking plates at dinner parties I was compelled to attend.  The better half, whose grandmother used to put books under his arms when he was eating, to teach him how far your elbows can protrude when dining, was appalled, but not surprised. 

I think one should look at attitudes.  If the person has a good heart, the rest can be learned.

Well she certainly never licked her plate, her manners seemed pretty good. Tough of course she rarely finished a meal in its entirety but then neither did I that much to actually get to the bottom of the plate to lick, lol. I of course would never do this. In fact she virtually left one meal she ordered that kind of peed me off a bit as it was just wasting my money needlessly.

Plus the name of this topic has changed to about me, I don't know why? :-\
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2017, 01:17:02 AM
It doesn't take much to Google "real man", a website name and look at the profiles to see how today's FSU women define "Real Man". The profiles at Bride.ru are written by the women in the profiles, not some agency employee. Yes, I can agree some women use the term to get their way from men but most women define it as something good. I could list many more profiles but I don't have the time. People here can do their own homework. We don't need to speculate anymore.

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/931/931823P1.html

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/1014/1014943P1.html

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/975/975909P1.html

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/930/930793P7.html

I agree, I saw a fair few profile on Mamba a while back where girl said she wanted a 'Real Man' - I was curious as to what this meant back then so brought it up on her. Someone suggested they wanted a man that could provide whatever for them - at the extreme a Mafia type of guy - i.e it dint matter how he got the money so long as he got it.

I don't doubt you Boethius when you say it has a lot to do with manipulation. Though I wonder why girl on dating site would put it as if guy knew that was what it was about it would instantly rule her out before he even got to know her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 02, 2017, 02:12:41 AM
Because the way they are using it in profiles is different.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2017, 11:36:40 AM
Because the way they are using it in profiles is different.

How is it different?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 02, 2017, 12:35:32 PM
What the ads likely refer to is a man of action.  Not a walking wallet.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2017, 01:19:55 PM
What the ads likely refer to is a man of action.  Not a walking wallet.

Oh I see, that's kind of what I thought when I first raised it but was not sure. I saw on a you tube video that this Russian women said that FSW often want a 'man on a mission' that is actively going out to build a better life than a guy that just does the usual stint and job done. That is fine by me as I kind of fit the man on a mission description :D. Thanks I can see now the difference between the two of how it is used. To be honest though I was quite young I'm sure it used to be used a little like that here in the west back in the 80s maybe US Hilly wood films more so, i.E 1980s macho culture. Today though I don't think anyone western person would use it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 02, 2017, 07:00:38 PM

Trench, the definition of a real man in the FSU is a good thing. It's a good thing if a lady labels you a real man. Because the definition of a real man is a good thing, insincere women use it to manipulate their men. They may say "a real man would take his woman to a 5 star restaurant on a first date". Some men fail to correct those ladies and end up taking them to vacations, 5 star restaurants and shopping sprees. Even if you had a woman or read about women using the term real man to manipulate men or you, don't believe those insincere women get to define "real man".
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 02, 2017, 08:28:45 PM
Actions mean everything,  words mean very little.
More substance,less talk.
When they are saying real man in some profile (if they indeed wrote it)its a matter of character, integrity, and doing what a man says he will do.
Not much different than a general  western diffinition of the term?

If used to manipulate, it's pretty pathetic behaviour to any *cough* real man.
As a *real woman* wouldn't dream of doing such ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 06:34:12 AM
Trench, the definition of a real man in the FSU is a good thing. It's a good thing if a lady labels you a real man. Because the definition of a real man is a good thing, insincere women use it to manipulate their men. They may say "a real man would take his woman to a 5 star restaurant on a first date". Some men fail to correct those ladies and end up taking them to vacations, 5 star restaurants and shopping sprees. Even if you had a woman or read about women using the term real man to manipulate men or you, don't believe those insincere women get to define "real man".

Got you there Billy, I think your bang on. If she calls you a real man its good, if she questions that your a real man its bad.

And yes your again right those women are better corrected than satisfying whet they want. The relationship actually seems to suffer if you go along with what they want anyway. Worst case scenario there is not a real relationship there at all and better off not racking up the expenses bill as there won't be a real relationship after expenses have been racked up either. Just the expenses bill will remain not the girl (unless she holds on hoping for more).

That is what I have learned from it is that it is a pointless endevour do it. Either not give into girl that is trying to manipulate or get shot of her. Many girls are into clothes shopping but even trying to be reasonable or modest in satisfying girl does not seem to help in any way, they always expect more and once you begin she won't let up. I've learned this now and plan on no repeat. I think the girl I'm with is into me but she just seems to have this affliction to try and manipulate me when it comes to clothes shopping. Better to work out a way she can buy with her own money once together I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 03, 2017, 06:57:16 AM
Got you there Billy, I think your bang on. If she calls you a real man its good, if she questions that your a real man its bad.



Within reason ... which when 'extreme' becomes  manipulation
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 07:22:35 AM
Within reason ... which when 'extreme' becomes  manipulation

You mean if she questions you are a real mean, a little mild suggestion that 'a real man...' but if she takes it too heavy on it then its manipulation?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 03, 2017, 07:30:18 AM
You mean if she questions you are a real mean, a little mild suggestion that 'a real man...' but if she takes it too heavy on it then its manipulation?

I mean if you think it's  taking the mick - it is..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 07:30:41 AM
Boethius, I also have a question on the character of FSW. My one seems particularly implacable and stubborn. She keeps returning to the 'I visit you then you visit me' - she won't budge from this nor except that I visit her first, she just keeps repeating this. She states she will not see me if I try and visit her first. She often seems to come across as sincere and genuine but I don't like this. I know we have already discussed reasons why she may not want a foreigner visiting her. She hasn't mentioned any of this nor really commented when I brought it up, so I am not so sure that is why. For me though it seems something I don't want to do, to have her visit me first without first visiting her. Her not budging in her position just makes me wonder why and even more if its really not a good idea for her to come here. Either way of course the cost is on me.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 03, 2017, 07:34:13 AM
May be, she is checking you are serious and not a 'sex tourist' ?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 07:42:54 AM
I mean if you think it's  taking the mick - it is..

Oh I see, I think she was using it more to explain her position, i.e she does not get money to by much in the way of clothes from her retail job. She doesn't say it a lot or regularly it just came up occasionally and briefly when having an discussion/argument over this. For me it was her shopping that started to take the mick a bit, she needs this, then that and even started on some stuff what I had already bought her an item off. For example she bought sandals for the beach (brand name one) however she found they hurt her feet when walking a bit in them - so she wanted me to buy her some more sandals (also brand name ones). At that stage I was like, this is taking the p*ss, that she expects me to pay out more because of her mistake. I told her I am not going around buying her everything twice, it ridiculous. So not she did not get more sandals. She seems to come up with a load of reasons she needs this or that. I mean she may be in a low paid job but I don't see why I should immediately come responsible for her clothing situation. She even refused to accept talk of a limit or that her clothing situation is now sorted arguing she is a girl so that what being a girl is about. Well she kind of has a child like wanting for this or that about her which for a girl in her mid twenties is a bit unusual I would have thought. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 07:45:58 AM
May be, she is checking you are serious and not a 'sex tourist' ?

Possibility I guess, we have been intimate a fair bit but she might feel that I am using her for sex like I feel that she uses me for clothes buying. I sometimes wonder if its a kind of pay back from her although she seems to get quite into the intimate side of things but who knows. She has accused me of having a wife in UK several times over messaging so maybe that is it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 03, 2017, 08:33:52 AM
Trench -- I have a few question for you -- that given the level of whingeing you have made over money spent--  exactly how much have you spent

eg    1/  on meals for the girl/s you have met?Yours and her meals?
1.5 / was there any alcohol? What was the cost? Yours & hers?

2/ You have gone on and on about a girl/s spending spree --exactly what did you buy?
How much was each item?

I note --the forum at large has sided with you over this --without the above questions actually being answered -- so  --given your noted frugality and concern for being scammed --I am sure you can answer the questions I have asked.

In no case you have mentioned -- would that have ruled a girl out  for me -- it would be totally dependant on all the circumstances.

Also --I should ask--you said you went on vacation -- what was accommodation cost? What other costs were involved in that?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 03, 2017, 08:53:24 AM
  You've already visited her.
If her character is generally stubborn, intractable,  and as a twenty something overly concerned with clothes and *brands*
She is far more typical  than not.


  Nothing wrong with that, it's simply her place, or stage, in life at this time and what matters to her now.
That may change, it may not.
  Why you'd be interested , is up to you,and what you need to work out.
  If she was a local girl,same age, same stage or interests in life, same character traits (good or bad) would you be into dating her and marriage?

Noone here knows her or you.You already know the answers,  we can't possibly know them.

Me? I can only go by what you post, If single, i wouldn't date a local girl thst age with a ' tude , ( I'm generous but also equally allergic to a sense of entitlement from someone)
or a still not matured life out look .
Again nothing wrong with where someone is at in life or what they value.

Most folks want a partner in life,one who wants to share the building of a life together, and value roughly the same things at the same stages in life.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 03, 2017, 10:01:07 AM
Got you there Billy, I think your bang on. If she calls you a real man its good, if she questions that your a real man its bad.


It's not always a bad thing if a woman sys your traits as a real man are lacking.  You have to evaluate the circumstances when she says this and if there is merit to what she's saying.   She may be trying to help you grow. If you are lacking in any way of becoming a real man you need to make adjustments.  Usually in the dating phase women won't point out your flaws. And they will let you behave the way you want so that you can continue to expose your flaws. This helps them make a determination whether to keep you or dump you. You should continue to evaluate the ladies that you date to make determinations on them too. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 03, 2017, 11:33:32 AM
Boethius, I also have a question on the character of FSW. My one seems particularly implacable and stubborn. She keeps returning to the 'I visit you then you visit me' - she won't budge from this nor except that I visit her first, she just keeps repeating this.

How many times have you said that you are moving on when clearly you aren't?
I've written before about driving the bus. It's your job to steer things in the right
direction. You've stopped steering or even operating the pedals long ago.

There are 101 generally accepted theories on the romantic thought processes of
women, unfortunately they are all wrong. Women are beautiful, soft creatures
who smell better, are loving and nurturing. Just accept it. Stop trying to figure
out why women don't act like men and be happy about it.

Just because a woman is hot and/or rode you like a stolen bike doesn't excuse
bad behavior or red flags.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 05:21:10 PM
May be, she is checking you are serious and not a 'sex tourist' ?

Having thought this through more would a sexpat really go to all the trouble & expense of taking her on holiday. I think not, some may do and maybe she might think so but my tendency is to think this is not how many would carry on and surely she would see that. I can't but help think she wants to come over here for a while then hook up with some other bloke. I mean I am going to be out most of the day at work. Do I take the risk? I mean Ok I bear the cost of bringing her over  here which is only so much. Its really more I don't like people using me and taking the pee. I mean I don't want to pay all that money for some other geezers benefit who can't be arsed to go and make the venture himself.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 03, 2017, 05:49:03 PM
Yes, sex tourists take women on holiday.  Not every man is as cheap as you.  The issue with a sex tourist is he promises a LTR, and has no intention of entering into one.

If you are that worried about bringing a woman over for some other man, then don't look for a FSUW.  There are zero guarantees in life.

I don't know if Kherson girl could even get a visa to the UK.  However, I know that when I was with my husband, I didn't care where we were, so long as we were together, and he felt the same way.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 10:53:12 PM
Yes, sex tourists take women on holiday.  Not every man is as cheap as you.  The issue with a sex tourist is he promises a LTR, and has no intention of entering into one.

If you are that worried about bringing a woman over for some other man, then don't look for a FSUW.  There are zero guarantees in life.

I don't know if Kherson girl could even get a visa to the UK.  However, I know that when I was with my husband, I didn't care where we were, so long as we were together, and he felt the same way.

Yeah my thoughts exactly, I've mentioned this numerous times and that it would be easier for me to visit her in Kherson first. Over time or if married I could probably do it, but at the moment it's an ordeal I don't need. I think her ardent resistance to me going to Kherson is making me wonder if she is up to something. Like you say it should be a case of you want to be with each other where ever. Other places in Europe have come up as a compromise but no she will only accept seeing me in UK first. Which is why I'm thinking time over I would rather go for a long stay in FSU and do relationship there with a girl for a number of weeks/months and do away with all of this hidden element of it all as I can see even with another girl if I did it as quick fly in's if it wasn't current problem then another similar problem related to not being an everyday presense in the relationship would occur.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 03, 2017, 11:22:39 PM
Trench,

Tell 'your' lady that unless there is a history of meetings - a serious relationship - that the chances of a young lass getting a UK tourist visa are zero...

She has to understand that the Brits are looking for serious couples. 

You'll need a few UA stamps and proof of being in UA with her ...

IF she lives in a rented apartment - with Ma and Pa - she is more likely to get a visa if studying at a UK VISA recognised establishment

IF you are serious about her and she you ... show her this is fact..

Get her a UA Bio passport - go with her to get it and make it part of the adventure.

Take her to Poland   - skiing - and get some EU stamps in the new passport  - this is not an easy venture and a short road

If you can't be bothered or worry - she is just going to dump you ... QUIT now

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2017, 01:37:37 AM
Trench,

Tell 'your' lady that unless there is a history of meetings - a serious relationship - that the chances of a young lass getting a UK tourist visa are zero...

She has to understand that the Brits are looking for serious couples. 

You'll need a few UA stamps and proof of being in UA with her ...

IF she lives in a rented apartment - with Ma and Pa - she is more likely to get a visa if studying at a UK VISA recognised establishment

IF you are serious about her and she you ... show her this is fact..

Get her a UA Bio passport - go with her to get it and make it part of the adventure.

Take her to Poland   - skiing - and get some EU stamps in the new passport  - this is not an easy venture and a short road

If you can't be bothered or worry - she is just going to dump you ... QUIT now

Exactly me Mobe, this is what I've been trying to explain to her several times, that the list of documents they ask for is not a case of being able to supply those documents and that's it - they will want to be convinced by what they see in the documents that there is enough money, reason for her to return, depth of our relationship together - how well we know each other and for how long, etc. All she ever responds to any of this is she has looked it up and it will not be a problem. There is just no getting through to her.

She already has a biometric Ukrainian Passport with a stamp from our Cyprus holiday and apparently a stamp from the previous guy she had a relationship with from another EU country - but I only have her say so on this. I have 3 Ukrainian stamps in my passport now although only one set relate to her. I have told her that they may well ask me about where she lives, who with, her job, being with her where she lives - none of which I can answer to any real depth since I do not know as I have never visited where she lives even. I've tried telling her that getting a Visa for UK is a lot harder than for other EU countries but again she says its no problem, lol.

She shares a rented apartment with her brother, she works in a retail job and she does not even have a bank account. Some of her situation can be got around but I think her job, living situation will have border control alarm bells ringing. Particularly if she wants to stay here a while or give her job up while she is here.

Her father apparently works in Poland though I very much doubt legally.

I just see it as easier if I visit her in Kherson and can't understand why she is so obstinate and refuses to accept the problems there would be in trying to get her a visa at the moment. I've tried explaining how exceptionally difficult UK border control can be in granting a visa but she won't take notice.

So her determination to try and push through for a UK visa set against her unwillingness for me to travel to Kherson to see her I just find concerning.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 04, 2017, 01:46:32 AM
If she's that stubborn, just apply for a visa and let it be rejected.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2017, 10:40:33 AM
Trench, sounds like she's been to another European country and did some other traveling. She said it's no problem for her to get a visa. All your reasoning  it's difficult to get a visa to your country sounds like an excuse to her.  I agree with Bo.  Give it a shot. And if she gets rejected as you predicted she will trust your opinion more  in the future.  You need to earn some points in the respect department and this is your chance 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2017, 11:38:25 AM
Trench, sounds like she's been to another European country and did some other traveling. She said it's no problem for her to get a visa. All your reasoning  it's difficult to get a visa to your country sounds like an excuse to her.  I agree with Bo. Give it a shot. And if she gets rejected as you predicted she will trust your opinion more  in the future.  You need to earn some points in the respect department and this is your chance

Love your style Billy :D Shows your pretty savvy in knowing how to deal with people. I need more skills yours, I may well give this a try ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 04, 2017, 12:49:45 PM
Yes, sex tourists take women on holiday.  Not every man is as cheap as you.  The issue with a sex tourist is he promises a LTR, and has no intention of entering into one.

I think most sex tourists travel to meet prostitutes or sex for pay
Some travel to places to have sex with underage or "appearing"
to be underage girls.

But you are correct some men misrepresent themselves and their
motives and it makes it more difficult for those with sincere
intentions.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 04, 2017, 03:52:43 PM
 Pfffft.
Justifying her stubbornness.
Sure you can play it to your advantage some, and manipulate her  hard headedness some, but dear Lord why on earth would you want to?


She actually has no sound reasons not to meet you in Ukraine. You know this.
She may not want to.meet in her city for many reasons, but  any of them that might be understandable, are also  pretty easy to work around if she actually wanted to.

The not so good reasons arnt.

This is a girl you've met , yet won't suggest or allow meeting you in her home city, or in kiev, or Paris etc.
Only in uk.

Ok she doesn't really want to see you, it's that simple.
Also,
If she's that stubborn and demanding after only one meeting , boy you are in for a time filled with such crapola.

I'm sure you're smart enough to manipulate her demands, much like billy suggested you can even come out looking good about it.

Why you would want to is the burning question, as there are a million girls like her that won't be so difficult.
You are setting yourself up for a relationship you have to dance, teach, manipulate , endlessly compromise.
Sorry to be harsh but find someone more compatable , the first TEN meetings should be relaxing  fun times together, no major drama or BS . They will be ,if the couple is meant for each other.


The rest of this is justification of both poor behaviour and manipulation.

After already meeting her, if no visas an issue, and  she said she could come see you in the UK , but you refused and insisted you had to meet her only in kherson, no other location, how do you think that would go down?:lol:

1.you would be quite unreasonable demanding that, and not truly into her.
2.she'd dump you in 2 seconds.

Flipping it around and jumping thru her hoops, has put you in beat down hubby training early!!!! After just one visit.
Imagine your life in 5 years.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2017, 04:54:28 PM
She actually has no sound reasons not to meet you in Ukraine.


I agree with this but it seems Trench wants to proceed with the woman so for them to meet, he has to attempt to get a visa for her to come to the UK.  When she gets rejected for the visa, she should agree to meet him in Ukraine. I suspect her 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc... backup plans to meet are outside Ukraine too. Trench needs to decide when to when to give up on this woman.

If I were dating a woman overseas, I'd dictate where we'd meet. If she doesn't like it, I'd find someone who'd like my suggestions. I have taken GF's out of their country to meet but only after we become exclusive. When the woman becomes the wife, she I will share control on where we spend our vacation money.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2017, 05:41:27 PM
Pfffft.
Justifying her stubbornness.
Sure you can play it to your advantage some, and manipulate her  hard headedness some, but dear Lord why on earth would you want to?


She actually has no sound reasons not to meet you in Ukraine. You know this.
She may not want to.meet in her city for many reasons, but  any of them that might be understandable, are also  pretty easy to work around if she actually wanted to.

The not so good reasons arnt.

This is a girl you've met , yet won't suggest or allow meeting you in her home city, or in kiev, or Paris etc.
Only in uk.


Ok she doesn't really want to see you, it's that simple.
Also,
If she's that stubborn and demanding after only one meeting , boy you are in for a time filled with such crapola.

I'm sure you're smart enough to manipulate her demands, much like billy suggested you can even come out looking good about it.

Why you would want to is the burning question, as there are a million girls like her that won't be so difficult.
You are setting yourself up for a relationship you have to dance, teach, manipulate , endlessly compromise.
Sorry to be harsh but find someone more compatable , the first TEN meetings should be relaxing  fun times together, no major drama or BS . They will be ,if the couple is meant for each other.


The rest of this is justification of both poor behaviour and manipulation.

After already meeting her, if no visas an issue, and  she said she could come see you in the UK , but you refused and insisted you had to meet her only in kherson, no other location, how do you think that would go down?:lol:

1.you would be quite unreasonable demanding that, and not truly into her.
2.she'd dump you in 2 seconds.

Flipping it around and jumping thru her hoops, has put you in beat down hubby training early!!!! After just one visit.
Imagine your life in 5 years.

Yeah, you and BillyB are right. My concern is that she may not really be into me, at least not that much and just wanting to get into UK. She comes across as sincere & genuine at times like when I question her but many a devious person may be, whether she is devious I'm not really sure. Its her insistence that she comes to the UK that worries me. Quite possibly she may have a very fixated stubborn streak, I really don't think compromise is in her dictionary, lol. To be honest compromise doesn't always please me but sometimes its just means the only viable option rather than nothing at all and in that case logic for me prevails. Making compromise just to meet each other in the middle on everything I am not so much into its too much of a cop out I think.

Still, yes she seems to want to wear the trousers in the relationship and is probably why she is still single (I assume). I get the impression she is single but who knows. The fact that she doesn't want me to meet her in Kherson first is kind of an issue. She may just have a very fixed view on it, she says because I have met her twice on holidays already, but she wanted to meet in Kiev & wanted a beach holiday abroad. For me both made sense at the time but really I should have opted for her home city straight away or nothing. I think she likes to call the shots - she has a degree in management so is perhaps that type. Her avoidance of me visiting her home city makes me wonder what I would find there if I were to see her.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2017, 06:08:08 PM
I agree with this but it seems Trench wants to proceed with the woman so for them to meet, he has to attempt to get a visa for her to come to the UK.  When she gets rejected for the visa, she should agree to meet him in Ukraine. I suspect her 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc... backup plans to meet are outside Ukraine too. Trench needs to decide when to when to give up on this woman.

If I were dating a woman overseas, I'd dictate where we'd meet. If she doesn't like it, I'd find someone who'd like my suggestions. I have taken GF's out of their country to meet but only after we become exclusive. When the woman becomes the wife, she I will share control on where we spend our vacation money.

Essentially I might as well keep her in the frame for the time being, I don't want another re-attempt this year. I want to get myself sorted for a thorough go at it next year rather than get caught in the trap of doing a series of fly ins and not get a good take on the situation and the girl, whoever it may be. If she comes around in that time then all may be good. She's backtracked of recent I thought she was going to compromise, though yes it looks like were she to compromise elsewhere in EU would be it. She's really got a one track mind though I keep wondering why she does not want me in Kherson - doesn't want to be seen around with an older guy? (I mean no doubt I look a bit older but I'm not really greying, fat or balding or anything) but still. To my mind I can't help but think there is a real big reason fro her not to want to come visit. It could of course be that she's not that into me and wants to now jump quickly to getting in the UK. I just can only think that her determination to get visa for UK is not for my benefit.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 04, 2017, 07:07:51 PM
If you have no intention to build a relationship with her, drop her.  It's unfair to her.

Gee, she doesn't want you to go to a small city where most everyone is unemployed, dirt poor, and there is one main street, from the train station to the port.  Whatever could she be thinking?

Your paranoia will ensure you will not be successful in this endeavour.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 04, 2017, 09:02:58 PM
Lol! Well there is the *dumpsk factor* Beo brought up, and I dint address.
  Yes a woman knows her city, if it's typical industrial soviet provincial city maybe  quite bored with it,and it may have little to offer.
 That's one of the *understandable reasons* I mentioned above that she might have for wanting to meet elsewhere .

 One of the many work arounds I alluded to, are to meet her there and then go to kiev , carpathian mountains, sea of azof, or somewhere else.
   There is just no great reason to be strongly opposed to that, or to not bring up other compromises if she is into you.

While I agree with Beo that you often come across too paranoid,
IN this case it's a girl you've met twice already,  who is showing no signs of compromise to even Paris.
I mean seriously.Think about that.

 ( I dislike Paris personally, but if my wife wanted to meet there, we would have gone and had a great time)

She (wife)is from a Dumpsk, but there was no issue meeting there or anywhere.
Yes she would prefer to meet in a place a bit more interesting for her and hopefully for me,but location wasn't really important.we discussed all that, the whys and planned accoringly, no problem, no drama.

Relationships should start much smoother.

Also if you feel too old for her, bail.
Either have the full confidence that regardless age you're a great catch and match for her (at whatever her age) or move on.


 Do ,or do not,
There is no try! "Yoda"
:)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2017, 12:24:43 AM
I don't doubt there is the dumpsk factor where she is and I think she is looking to get out of it. She has kind of reflected this in her messages to me. To me though the fact that she is so ardent on UK and nowhere else and her equally ardent stating that she will refuse to see me in Kherson raises alarm bells to me. I mean something must be going on in her life in Kherson she doesn't want me to see apart from it being a dump. Otherwise even if her goal was to get into UK she would say ok you visit Kherson then knowing UK was next on the list and would just be waiting weeks overall. There is the refusal to go to othe locations so I don't know maybe she just wants into UK without having to put up with being with me a lot longer. I know for sure though I'm not going to be used for her to get that if that's her game.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 05, 2017, 12:38:58 AM
I don't doubt there is the dumpsk factor where she is and I think she is looking to get out of it. She has kind of reflected this in her messages to me.


Doesn't matter if her city is a dumpsk. A real man would say "I(Trench) am coming to visit you in Dumpskville", buy the tickets and see how good of a hostess she is while you're in town. Trench, you're still learning about this woman and if she makes things too difficult, you need to move on. Keep in mind, if you're projecting yourself to be a less than desirable catch, women aren't going to bend over backwards to please you. If you are in the top 10% of men, women would be thrilled to be with you and are much less likely to say or do anything to upset you. If you're lower on the totem pole compared to other men, the ladies will shit on you more often.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 05, 2017, 03:26:03 AM
Essentially I might as well keep her in the frame for the time being, I don't want another re-attempt this year.

Just how stupid are you?  Really?  Sure, don't "re-attempt" this year - but don't waste one more second of your existence on this girl.

If you have no intention to build a relationship with her, drop her.  It's unfair to her.

Forget about it being unfair to the girl - it's unfair to us to have to put up with this continuous crap!  Trenchcoat has raised the same half dozen red flags in just about every post concerning this girl (I refuse to call her a woman, because that would imply that she has some maturity), and admits that her behaviour is full of red flags, and yet he STILL fantasizes about her possibly being the future love of his life.

I would get moderated off the board if I posted what I really think, as I'm sure would several others, but his behaviour is beyond insane.  There's just one excuse after another, EVERY DAY, for a girl who exhibits the standard traits of any twenty-something who's just out for the best time that she can have, with the least inconvenience to her real life.  I don't know (or care) if she has a boyfriend or husband back home, or if there's some other reason why she doesn't want Trenchcoat to see her home town, but you wouldn't put up with this from a local girl - why on earth would you do so for someone who lives in another country?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on August 05, 2017, 04:00:38 AM
Just how stupid are you?  Really? Sure, don't "re-attempt" this year - but don't waste one more second of your existence on this girl.

Forget about it being unfair to the girl - it's unfair to us to have to put up with this continuous crap!  Trenchcoat has raised the same half dozen red flags in just about every post concerning this girl (I refuse to call her a woman, because that would imply that she has some maturity), and admits that her behaviour is full of red flags, and yet he STILL fantasizes about her possibly being the future love of his life.

I would get moderated off the board if I posted what I really think, as I'm sure would several others, but his behaviour is beyond insane.  There's just one excuse after another, EVERY DAY, for a girl who exhibits the standard traits of any twenty-something who's just out for the best time that she can have, with the least inconvenience to her real life.  I don't know (or care) if she has a boyfriend or husband back home, or if there's some other reason why she doesn't want Trenchcoat to see her home town, but you wouldn't put up with this from a local girl - why on earth would you do so for someone who lives in another country?

Trenchie was allowed to put his penis in her, so now every time he thinks of her or speaks with her, he gets a full boner and only thinks with the little head.  I have some suspicion this was the first girl ever letting him getting to that part, so no there is no logic involved, only a cheap mind and a full blown boner doing the thinking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on August 05, 2017, 08:46:56 AM
full blown boner . . .

Certainly better than partially blown.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 05, 2017, 11:56:31 AM
Essentially I might as well keep her in the frame for the time being,

Attention Newbies, Trench is making a classical mistake read this
post to ensure you don't do the same.



Wrong, wrong, wrong.

You have time, money and emotions tied up with a girl who isn't
the future Mrs Trench, so you rationalize stringing the relationship
along wasting both of your time, primarily because she looks good
and likes a nice pony ride, which I am a fan of as well, who doesn't
enjoy pony rides? 

BUT, you are doing both of yourselves a disservice.

That girl is seeking a future mate and you are keeping her away from
finding him. Likewise there is the future Mrs Trench out there walking
around completely oblivious that you exist. Once you discover that a
girl isn't the future Mrs_____________ (your name here) dump her
immediately and work at trying to find the future Mrs_____________
(your name here)

That's my advice and philosophy about that. You could argue but you
would be wrong.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2017, 11:56:52 AM
JForget about it being unfair to the girl - it's unfair to us to have to put up with this continuous crap!  Trenchcoat has raised the same half dozen red flags in just about every post concerning this girl (I refuse to call her a woman, because that would imply that she has some maturity), and admits that her behaviour is full of red flags, and yet he STILL fantasizes about her possibly being the future love of his life.

I don't know if I'd call them red flags.  I think they just demonstrate a particular mindset. 

The problem with many WM is they look for, even seek "red flags".  Don't go fishing in a poor country.  Then you won't have to worry about red flags.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 05, 2017, 11:57:19 AM
Essentially I might as well keep her in the frame for the time being,

If you have no intention to build a relationship with her, drop her.  It's unfair to her.

Just how stupid are you?  Really?  Sure, don't "re-attempt" this year - but don't waste one more second of your existence on this girl.


Attention Newbies, Trench is making a classical mistake read this
post to ensure you don't do the same.


Advice to Trench who won't follow and for Newbies who might

You have time, money and emotions tied up with a girl who isn't
the future Mrs Trench, so you rationalize stringing the relationship
along wasting both of your time, primarily because she looks good
and likes a nice pony ride, which I am a fan of as well, who doesn't
enjoy pony rides? 

BUT, you are doing both of yourselves a disservice.

That girl is seeking a future mate and you are keeping her away from
finding him. Likewise there is the future Mrs Trench out there walking
around completely oblivious that you exist. Once you discover that a
girl isn't the future Mrs_____________ (your name here) dump her
immediately and work at trying to find the future Mrs_____________
(your name here)

That's my advice and philosophy about that. You could argue but you
would be wrong.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2017, 12:52:32 PM
Most of you don't know how desperate things are in some parts of Ukraine.  The country is now awash in guns.  An acquaintance goes back to her small town in Western Ukraine every year, to visit her children and grandchildren.  She said that now (past two years), she is followed everywhere.  In the past, as someone with access to cash, she was bothered by drunkards and criminals, now, it has stretched to beyond that.

One of our neighbours went to her cousin's wedding in Ukraine.  There were six Canadians there.  The groom held them hostage at gunpoint, and stole their cash and credit cards.  They were being held hostage in a barn.  There was a shoot out with police.  Thankfully, no one was injured and, instead of enjoying his wedding night, the groom was arrested.

Recently, a Ukrainian was arrested in Italy.  He was an officer in the army, and shot an Italian journalist near the front (Ukrainian zone).  The reason?  To steal his camera and related equipment.  A female French journalist was spared because she didn't have anything to steal.  The Italians investigated, as the Ukrainian army didn't care.  Italy tried to have him extradited but again, Ukraine didn't care.  So, Italian investigators lured him to Italy.  This just demonstrates the cynicism in Ukraine today.  Life there is cheap.

Kherson is a small city not far from the war zone.  It was a dump during Soviet times, and no doubt is a dump now.  There are no jobs.  There is one long main street.  Go blocks from the city, and goats and chickens are running around.  So, a girl brings a foreigner and shows him around.  He leaves, and she still has to deal with all of those who believe she has money/goods.  Open season on her, including from the police.  She doesn't want to be somewhere where she has to worry about who comes to her door in the middle of the night.  From this perspective, asking to see England, and a "normal" life, makes sense.  Trench, you go home.  She stays there.

Our family has had shakedowns in the past because of receiving money.  This was before WU and moneygram, when Meest delivered money to the door, and it was never more than $200.  Now, at the relatives' request, we send only very small amounts, as we've been told "you don't know who will follow you home".  And this is in Kyiv, not some small city near some current Ukrainian hotspots.

Bigger cities are much safer, and foreigners, generally, are safe because they are a source of revenue.  But they are not immune, as the stories above demonstrate.

Trench, your paranoia won't end.  It will only grow.  You probably have the same paranoia with WW. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 05, 2017, 01:46:08 PM
Certainly better than partially blown.

For those of you who are single and don't know what partially
blown is, all you need is a beautiful wife and a two year old
child to find out.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2017, 02:33:20 PM
I don't know if I'd call them red flags.  I think they just demonstrate a particular mindset. 

The problem with many WM is they look for, even seek "red flags".  Don't go fishing in a poor country.  Then you won't have to worry about red flags.

We don't have a choice, if we could get women in our home country (or at least one we wanted) or even a reasonably wealthy country we would be doing it. Russia for example may be a better bet though its only a bit more prosperous than Ukraine and that probably depends if you are in one of the big touristy cities as well. There are few easy choices in life so even fishing in a poor country can reap better rewards than trying at home. Its just a case of getting stuck in, learning along the way and doing what you can I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2017, 02:38:44 PM
I'm calling BS on not having a choice.  Whenever I see that, I know a man is either lying (largely to himself) or delusional.  So, which is it?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2017, 02:45:13 PM

Attention Newbies, Trench is making a classical mistake read this
post to ensure you don't do the same.


Advice to Trench who won't follow and for Newbies who might

You have time, money and emotions tied up with a girl who isn't
the future Mrs Trench, so you rationalize stringing the relationship
along wasting both of your time, primarily because she looks good
and likes a nice pony ride, which I am a fan of as well, who doesn't
enjoy pony rides? 

BUT, you are doing both of yourselves a disservice.

That girl is seeking a future mate and you are keeping her away from
finding him. Likewise there is the future Mrs Trench out there walking
around completely oblivious that you exist. Once you discover that a
girl isn't the future Mrs_____________ (your name here) dump her
immediately and work at trying to find the future Mrs_____________
(your name here)

That's my advice and philosophy about that. You could argue but you
would be wrong.

Generally I agree, though it is not the case here, guys wanting just sex & girls out to scam waste each others time all the time when they could be finding Mr or Mrs Right. I care about the girl and if she made some compromise then things could work out. I did see her as a Mrs Trench but there is this obstacle she has brought into the relationship. She may not be sincere and I will no doubt find that out if so. From my point of view I need to replenish money, sort out my life in terms of making sure I can offer a girl a good level of stability/provide for her. I also want to approach this venture with a new method, for me the messaging girls from a distance over Skype, etc is just not for me. I don't want to waste endless hours of my precious time writing messages to women that might be a fruitless cause to me I see it as a mugs game. I want to be down there on the street in girls home city calling them up there and then. Then as soon as I find one get into a domestic situation with her and have a 'real relationship'. Rather than wondering if a girl just put on an act for a week to get what she can out of me. Whether my girl did that I don't know, I do know when I will be back in the game roughly if she doesn't come around. If her time is being wasted as a result then its her fault for not having sincere intentions in the first place.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2017, 02:52:40 PM
If her time is being wasted as a result then its her fault for not having sincere intentions in the first place.


You don't know if she doesn't have sincere intentions.  You're guessing at that.  So, Bill is right.


Tell her that you doubt her sincerity because she doesn't want you to go to Kherson.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2017, 03:01:27 PM
Most of you don't know how desperate things are in some parts of Ukraine.  The country is now awash in guns.  An acquaintance goes back to her small town in Western Ukraine every year, to visit her children and grandchildren.  She said that now (past two years), she is followed everywhere.  In the past, as someone with access to cash, she was bothered by drunkards and criminals, now, it has stretched to beyond that.

One of our neighbours went to her cousin's wedding in Ukraine.  There were six Canadians there.  The groom held them hostage at gunpoint, and stole their cash and credit cards.  They were being held hostage in a barn.  There was a shoot out with police.  Thankfully, no one was injured and, instead of enjoying his wedding night, the groom was arrested.

Recently, a Ukrainian was arrested in Italy.  He was an officer in the army, and shot an Italian journalist near the front (Ukrainian zone).  The reason?  To steal his camera and related equipment.  A female French journalist was spared because she didn't have anything to steal.  The Italians investigated, as the Ukrainian army didn't care.  Italy tried to have him extradited but again, Ukraine didn't care.  So, Italian investigators lured him to Italy.  This just demonstrates the cynicism in Ukraine today.  Life there is cheap.

Kherson is a small city not far from the war zone.  It was a dump during Soviet times, and no doubt is a dump now.  There are no jobs.  There is one long main street.  Go blocks from the city, and goats and chickens are running around.  So, a girl brings a foreigner and shows him around.  He leaves, and she still has to deal with all of those who believe she has money/goods.  Open season on her, including from the police.  She doesn't want to be somewhere where she has to worry about who comes to her door in the middle of the night.  From this perspective, asking to see England, and a "normal" life, makes sense.  Trench, you go home.  She stays there.

Our family has had shakedowns in the past because of receiving money.  This was before WU and moneygram, when Meest delivered money to the door, and it was never more than $200.  Now, at the relatives' request, we send only very small amounts, as we've been told "you don't know who will follow you home".  And this is in Kyiv, not some small city near some current Ukrainian hotspots.

Bigger cities are much safer, and foreigners, generally, are safe because they are a source of revenue.  But they are not immune, as the stories above demonstrate.

Trench, your paranoia won't end.  It will only grow.  You probably have the same paranoia with WW.

Thank you for that Boethius, above stories are truly shocking and I often find myself underestimating how dirt poor and poverty stricken many Ukrainians are. The little of this I have come into contact with surprises me. Yes hearing stories like this demonstrate the general issue of dating in Ukraine as there are a lot of people after easy money. I think this type of character in the stories you've stated find there way frequently across the Ukrainian dating scene. Itís why I question if I will spend much time there in future or in another FSU country.

I've got a pretty good idea what Kherson is like and it being a bit of a dump. It doesn't bother me, I've been to rough areas in UK and know the scene. When I choose to I can merge into the background quite well. I could understand her not wanting me to be in Kherson if this is the reason but she hasn't really offered up a reason at all when I question her. She either doesn't get back to me on it, talks of something else or (normally) goes back onto the UK visa thing. She won't even accept a compromise of another EU country with a decent economy as an short-medium term solution while we get to know each other in a domestic setting.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2017, 03:03:28 PM
I'm calling BS on not having a choice.  Whenever I see that, I know a man is either lying (largely to himself) or delusional.  So, which is it?

Ok, there are the fat chicks but they are the ultimate turn off, it might as well be a bloke your trying to get with that's how most heterosexual males feel about fat chicks.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2017, 03:05:05 PM
Not every woman in the UK is fat, and certainly not all young women.


If all you can attract is fat women, then the problem is you, not the women.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on August 05, 2017, 04:24:15 PM
Most of you don't know how desperate things are in some parts of Ukraine.  The country is now awash in guns.  An acquaintance goes back to her small town in Western Ukraine every year, to visit her children and grandchildren.  She said that now (past two years), she is followed everywhere.  In the past, as someone with access to cash, she was bothered by drunkards and criminals, now, it has stretched to beyond that.

One of our neighbours went to her cousin's wedding in Ukraine.  There were six Canadians there.  The groom held them hostage at gunpoint, and stole their cash and credit cards.  They were being held hostage in a barn.  There was a shoot out with police.  Thankfully, no one was injured and, instead of enjoying his wedding night, the groom was arrested.

Recently, a Ukrainian was arrested in Italy.  He was an officer in the army, and shot an Italian journalist near the front (Ukrainian zone).  The reason?  To steal his camera and related equipment.  A female French journalist was spared because she didn't have anything to steal.  The Italians investigated, as the Ukrainian army didn't care.  Italy tried to have him extradited but again, Ukraine didn't care.  So, Italian investigators lured him to Italy.  This just demonstrates the cynicism in Ukraine today.  Life there is cheap.

Kherson is a small city not far from the war zone.  It was a dump during Soviet times, and no doubt is a dump now.  There are no jobs.  There is one long main street.  Go blocks from the city, and goats and chickens are running around.  So, a girl brings a foreigner and shows him around.  He leaves, and she still has to deal with all of those who believe she has money/goods.  Open season on her, including from the police.  She doesn't want to be somewhere where she has to worry about who comes to her door in the middle of the night.  From this perspective, asking to see England, and a "normal" life, makes sense.  Trench, you go home.  She stays there.

Our family has had shakedowns in the past because of receiving money.  This was before WU and moneygram, when Meest delivered money to the door, and it was never more than $200.  Now, at the relatives' request, we send only very small amounts, as we've been told "you don't know who will follow you home".  And this is in Kyiv, not some small city near some current Ukrainian hotspots.

Bigger cities are much safer, and foreigners, generally, are safe because they are a source of revenue.  But they are not immune, as the stories above demonstrate.

Trench, your paranoia won't end.  It will only grow.  You probably have the same paranoia with WW.

Kherson is not a dump, at least not all of it.  Fabrika is a major, regional shopping center that attracts both tourists and high-end shoppers.  It is located in, you guessed it, Kherson.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g303931-d8552263-Reviews-Fabrika-Kherson_Kherson_Oblast.html

When I lived in Mykolaiv for a month, a couple of years back, I traveled to Fabrika to do some really nice shopping.  It is not fair to describe Kherson in such polarizing terms.  Kherson was the lynch pin for travelers going to Krim from other parts of Ukraine, and I am sure, since the Russian takeover, things have diminished.  But like any Ukrainian city, it does have its high points.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2017, 04:53:29 PM
Not every woman in the UK is fat, and certainly not all young women.


If all you can attract is fat women, then the problem is you, not the women.

Not all, but many, some research reports up to around 40 percent. Off the non-fatties competition among men are fierce for them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 05, 2017, 06:12:35 PM
...I care about the girl and if she made some compromise then things could work out...

Why??????  As I wrote above, you complain about her EVERY DAY, and keep on about the things she has done which you don't like.  What on earth is wrong with you?

...From my point of view I need to replenish money, sort out my life in terms of making sure I can offer a girl a good level of stability/provide for her. I also want to approach this venture with a new method, for me the messaging girls from a distance over Skype, etc is just not for me. I don't want to waste endless hours of my precious time writing messages to women that might be a fruitless cause to me I see it as a mugs game. I want to be down there on the street in girls home city calling them up there and then. Then as soon as I find one get into a domestic situation with her and have a 'real relationship'.

This doesn't make any sense at all!  First you say you need to replenish your money, etc.  Then, you don't want to waste any effort writing messages or talking on Skype, all of which takes some precious time, but is FREE.  Instead, you want to fly off to another country and jump feet first into a relationship with someone about whom you don't have the slightest clue because you've picked her up in the street or at a cafť, and who doesn't even speak your language as their native tongue (leading to endless misunderstandings which, with your mindset, will be totally misconstrued).

Does that sound about right?

Rather than wondering if a girl just put on an act for a week to get what she can out of me. Whether my girl did that I don't know, I do know when I will be back in the game roughly if she doesn't come around. If her time is being wasted as a result then its her fault for not having sincere intentions in the first place.

That's rubbish.  It's your fault for continuing this ridiculous excuse for a "relationship."

To everyone else who's looking at this - I'm guessing that Trenchcoat has put me on "Ignore."  There's no other possible reason for not responding to what I've written, when everyone else is getting answered.  :sad:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on August 05, 2017, 07:12:04 PM
Hello all.....
Over the last 8 months I've followed this forum, read a majority of starting out, experienced and married. I feel like I know most of the regular members here. 

I've taken it all on board, the pit falls, the red flags, members despair their successes . I've read most of your advice Trench and  I've cheered for you , felt your pain and also shook my head in disbelief, please don't take offence. 

I probably come from a different back ground to you Trench. I'm in my early 40's, I'm a novice to international dating, but I'm quite successful dating locally, from speed dating, online dating and approaching women face to face. I've been in a relationship of some form since my early teens, including a long term marriage with children, that  fell apart almost 3 years. My divorce was finally settled just last week.

While I've only taken the first initial steps in the journey, I'll tell you my story and maybe it will give you a fresh perspective, from an un-clouded mind.

I quite by accident stumbled into this, having no idea about, dating fsuw and really no intention to travel down this road, all I was looking for was an interesting exchange of cultures, basically a pen pal. This is how I portrayed myself on a free dating site . I contacted  several woman my own age, all quite honest and seemingly  genuine. One woman didn't  particularly engage me like the others as she was not on the site as regularly, but she was the first to suggest talking on Skype.

From our first face to face chat, we found we had been through an almost identical situation in our past marriages, we formed an instant friendship and bonded due to this. Over the next following week our friendship progressed, from chatting every couple of days to chatting daily. Although I was only looking for  friendship, this woman intrigued me, she was so  positive, always happy and was very open with her experiences in life, both good and bad. She was everything the typical stereotype of a fsuw was portrayed as. Over time I started developing genuine feelings for her and she did also, but we didn't make this obvious to each other and maintained our relationship on a strict friendship basis. It was enjoyable to talk to a woman and not feel I had to advance our conversation into a dating situation.

Over the following 6 months we chatted daily sometimes up to 12 hours a day, as she was able to message during work. We talked about everything and anything, from our dreams and aspirations, to the chances of life on other planets and every other topic in between. There was never one moment where we were lost for something to say. A conversation would seamlessly merge into many directions, far from our original thoughts.  We shared our lives through many hundreds of pictures, videos and thousands of messages.  We shared our daily activities from simple shopping trips, her amazing cooking, to special moments like birthdays,  family weddings and family  outings. She sent the most amazing, heartfelt birthday wishes to both my children and I. We both expressed our appreciation for the time we gave each other everyday. I would compliment her stunning pictures of herself and it was her that gave me a reality check " its just a picture " and " I'm a simple woman ". I bought her a birthday present, but had some issues with mailing it. Her reply... " l'm not a child, I don't need anything from you, but your friendship. Please don't send me anything" she's not materialistic at all.

Several months ago we finally expressed our true feelings for each other, we both knew we felt this from early on, but didn't want to affect the great friendship we had, for so many months. Our online relationship has gone from strength to strength, over each month that passes, our Skype calls are filled full of non stop laughter and incredibly deep conversations.  I have her in fits of laughter every day at work and her colleagues, thinks she going crazy. We greet each other with lovely messages, every day when we wake and when we go to bed. I realise we have never met and I am realistic, we may not have the same connection when we meet, but by taking our time and really getting to know each other, we have given it the best chance there is to have a successful relationship in the real world, if not we have developed a friendship that will last a lifetime. At this point in time,  It's everything I expected when I read about what a genuine relationship with a fsuw can be.

 I'm planning a holiday to visit her in her home town and it will be anther 3 months until this occurs. The total time we will have corresponded will be 11 months. I might be naive and this may not be the norm of  "get on a plane as soon as you can"  but I'm  glad I didn't follow that advice, this feels for me the right way to progress.

Trench from a complete novice  ( myself ) to someone who has much more experience, the lessons I've learn are this and bare in mind I've only conversed with one amazing woman .....

 Choose someone your own age, you will have much more in common and will be in the same stage in life ( no offence to the guys who have younger wives ).

Don't rush things, I made that mistake in my first  marriage, she was slim and attractive, but we didn't suit each other, we didn't take the time to really know each other, before making a commitment.

There are women out there that don't exhibit any red flags, don't settle for less. Your only concern will be trying to fathom, why the seeming perfect woman is interested in me.

When I meet this woman, as I do locally, I will pay for the regular things a man does, when he's dating, but a genuine woman will never ask for you to spend money on her, she will find happiness in  your company and not material things, from this happiness you won't mind giving gifts to show how much you care for her.   

Lastly, don't over analyze her behaviour or the relationship, you know in your heart when it feels right.

Many of you can probably point out many mistakes in my thought process, I guess I'll find out soon :)




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on August 05, 2017, 07:25:15 PM
Hello all.....
Over the last 8 months I've followed this forum, read a majority of starting out, experienced and married. I feel like I know most of the regular members here. 

I've taken it all on board, the pit falls, the red flags, members despair their successes . I've read most of your advice Trench and  I've cheered for you , felt your pain and also shook my head in disbelief, please don't take offence. 

I probably come from a different back ground to you Trench. I'm in my early 40's, I'm a novice to international dating, but I'm quite successful dating locally, from speed dating, online dating and approaching women face to face. I've been in a relationship of some form since my early teens, including a long term marriage with children, that  fell apart almost 3 years. My divorce was finally settled just last week.

While I've only taken the first initial steps in the journey, I'll tell you my story and maybe it will give you a fresh perspective, from an un-clouded mind.

I quite by accident stumbled into this, having no idea about, dating fsuw and really no intention to travel down this road, all I was looking for was an interesting exchange of cultures, basically a pen pal. This is how I portrayed myself on a free dating site . I contacted  several woman my own age, all quite honest and seemingly  genuine. One woman didn't  particularly engage me like the others as she was not on the site as regularly, but she was the first to suggest talking on Skype.

From our first face to face chat, we found we had been through an almost identical situation in our past marriages, we formed an instant friendship and bonded due to this. Over the next following week our friendship progressed, from chatting every couple of days to chatting daily. Although I was only looking for  friendship, this woman intrigued me, she was so  positive, always happy and was very open with her experiences in life, both good and bad. She was everything the typical stereotype of a fsuw was portrayed as. Over time I started developing genuine feelings for her and she did also, but we didn't make this obvious to each other and maintained our relationship on a strict friendship basis. It was enjoyable to talk to a woman and not feel I had to advance our conversation into a dating situation.

Over the following 6 months we chatted daily sometimes up to 12 hours a day, as she was able to message during work. We talked about everything and anything, from our dreams and aspirations, to the chances of life on other planets and every other topic in between. There was never one moment where we were lost for something to say. A conversation would seamlessly merge into many directions, far from our original thoughts.  We shared our lives through many hundreds of pictures, videos and thousands of messages.  We shared our daily activities from simple shopping trips, her amazing cooking, to special moments like birthdays,  family weddings and family  outings. She sent the most amazing, heartfelt birthday wishes to both my children and I. We both expressed our appreciation for the time we gave each other everyday. I would compliment her stunning pictures of herself and it was her that gave me a reality check " its just a picture " and " I'm a simple woman ". I bought her a birthday present, but had some issues with mailing it. Her reply... " l'm not a child, I don't need anything from you, but your friendship. Please don't send me anything" she's not materialistic at all.

Several months ago we finally expressed our true feelings for each other, we both knew we felt this from early on, but didn't want to affect the great friendship we had, for so many months. Our online relationship has gone from strength to strength, over each month that passes, our Skype calls are filled full of non stop laughter and incredibly deep conversations.  I have her in fits of laughter every day at work and her colleagues, thinks she going crazy. We greet each other with lovely messages, every day when we wake and when we go to bed. I realise we have never met and I am realistic, we may not have the same connection when we meet, but by taking our time and really getting to know each other, we have given it the best chance there is to have a successful relationship in the real world, if not we have developed a friendship that will last a lifetime. At this point in time,  It's everything I expected when I read about what a genuine relationship with a fsuw can be.

 I'm planning a holiday to visit her in her home town and it will be anther 3 months until this occurs. The total time we will have corresponded will be 11 months. I might be naive and this may not be the norm of  "get on a plane as soon as you can"  but I'm  glad I didn't follow that advice, this feels for me the right way to progress.

Trench from a complete novice  ( myself ) to someone who has much more experience, the lessons I've learn are this and bare in mind I've only conversed with one amazing woman .....

 Choose someone your own age, you will have much more in common and will be in the same stage in life ( no offence to the guys who have younger wives ).

Don't rush things, I made that mistake in my first  marriage, she was slim and attractive, but we didn't suit each other, we didn't take the time to really know each other, before making a commitment.

There are women out there that don't exhibit any red flags, don't settle for less. Your only concern will be trying to fathom, why the seeming perfect woman is interested in me.

When I meet this woman, as I do locally, I will pay for the regular things a man does, when he's dating, but a genuine woman will never ask for you to spend money on her, she will find happiness in  your company and not material things, from this happiness you won't mind giving gifts to show how much you care for her.   

Lastly, don't over analyze her behaviour or the relationship, you know in your heart when it feels right.

Many of you can probably point out many mistakes in my thought process, I guess I'll find out soon :)

Actually it is quite refreshing.  Welcome to the forum.  Keep us informed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on August 05, 2017, 07:51:04 PM
Thanks jone,
I will update after my trip : )

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 05, 2017, 07:54:30 PM
I'm planning a holiday to visit her in her home town and it will be anther 3 months until this occurs. The total time we will have corresponded will be 11 months. I might be naive and this may not be the norm of  "get on a plane as soon as you can"  but I'm  glad I didn't follow that advice, this feels for me the right way to progress.


I think things will work out well for you Davo when you visit her based on how you two click together. Most regulars would not recommend waiting too long before getting on a plane. We recommend getting on a plane as soon as a guy finds a woman he clicks well with. We seen too many guys get hot and heavy corresponding with a lady for months only to see things end because she got tired the man couldn't make things happen fast enough. You beat the odds. Your lady has a limit to how much she'd correspond with you. She may have waited for a few more months or maybe even years. Only she knows. Good thing you didn't hit her limit.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on August 05, 2017, 08:16:01 PM
Thanks Billy,
It wasn't particularly by choice, my divorce has been  a long and drawn out affair. It's been hard on my children and I couldn't leave them for two weeks and feel comfortable about it.
She had stated that she will wait as long as it takes as my children must come first. It's been an attraction for her that I'm a very committed single father.
Interestingly enough, her friend conversed with a foreign man for a year before they met, so I don't think this has been a major issue for her, but I am surprised that our online relationship has intensified even during the last few weeks,  maybe because it's getting closer to meeting.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 05, 2017, 08:49:25 PM
Thanks Billy,
It wasn't particularly by choice, my divorce has been  a long and drawn out affair. It's been hard on my children and I couldn't leave them for two weeks and feel comfortable about it.
She had stated that she will wait as long as it takes as my children must come first. It's been an attraction for her that I'm a very committed single father.
Interestingly enough, her friend conversed with a foreign man for a year before they met, so I don't think this has been a major issue for her, but I am surprised that our online relationship has intensified even during the last few weeks,  maybe because it's getting closer to meeting.

She must be very patient and trusts you a lot to be waiting till you finish a divorce. Most women have a policy of not dating a man until he's free. Some people here won't approve of you searching for a woman before the divorce is final but truth is some men and women have checked out of the marriage long before the final paperwork is signed and are emotionally ready to move on.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on August 05, 2017, 09:07:53 PM
Actually, we have been officially divorced for 3 years. Its just been a lengthy court battle to sort out our children's issues  and the final settlement of our property and assets.... During this time I've dated 4 women locally
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 06, 2017, 02:19:27 PM

Over the following 6 months we chatted daily sometimes up to 12 hours a day, as she was able to message during work. We talked about everything and anything, from our dreams and aspirations, to the chances of life on other planets and every other topic in between. There was never one moment where we were lost for something to say. A conversation would seamlessly merge into many directions, far from our original thoughts.  We shared our lives through many hundreds of pictures, videos and thousands of messages.  We shared our daily activities from simple shopping trips, her amazing cooking, to special moments like birthdays,  family weddings and family  outings.

Many of you can probably point out many mistakes in my thought process, I guess I'll find out soon :)

Welcome to the forum, I wish you the best

I spent too many months developing something with a girl from
Georgia. When I got there we didn't have mutual chemistry even
though both of us really wanted it to happen. I spent all that time
and it didn't work out. That's one of the reasons that I recommend
getting on a plane, that way you don't waste time with a girl that
you don't have mutual chemistry.

The second reason is that FSUW are very pragmatic. I know a girl
from Luckylovers who lived in one of the Stans, tall, pretty and
smart. There was a guy who was handsome, smart and liked
the girl a lot but didn't pull the trigger.

Then a relatively homely guy (and a dork) from the other forum,
got on a plane and met the girl. Who do you think she married?
It was the homely dork because he got his butt on a plane.

This is my story
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.0

Here is if you want to skip ahead to going to Georgia
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.450
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 06, 2017, 05:02:47 PM
Davo,

2^bill, Knows me - and I will repeat his comments in another way - have a passport - book a ticket - meet said female - it may or not work out.

Figure out why (do not be crestfallen if it is chemistry or her fault) try again only after you understand the mistakes made.

vA
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 06, 2017, 05:25:17 PM
whoops double post by Bill
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 06, 2017, 05:26:46 PM
Why??????  As I wrote above, you complain about her EVERY DAY, and keep on about the things she has done which you don't like.  What on earth is wrong with you?

This doesn't make any sense at all!  First you say you need to replenish your money, etc.  Then, you don't want to waste any effort writing messages or talking on Skype, all of which takes some precious time, but is FREE.  Instead, you want to fly off to another country and jump feet first into a relationship with someone about whom you don't have the slightest clue because you've picked her up in the street or at a cafť, and who doesn't even speak your language as their native tongue (leading to endless misunderstandings which, with your mindset, will be totally misconstrued).

Does that sound about right?

That's rubbish.  It's your fault for continuing this ridiculous excuse for a "relationship."

To everyone else who's looking at this - I'm guessing that Trenchcoat has put me on "Ignore."  There's no other possible reason for not responding to what I've written, when everyone else is getting answered.  :sad:

Not ignore Kiwi, I'm just a man in demand what can I say ;D

I mean I were messaging a lot with present girl, now not so. With other girls no I'm not going to fall into the trap of getting in touch with another random girl on the internet, wasting hours/weeks/months in messaging just to get there and find out - chemistry is not there, she's a Holiday whore, Shopping scammer, Immigration scammer or other type of scammer, or some other weirdness etc. Yes I'm not surprised the search can take years at that rate, lol. This time I'm planning to be out there a fair while next year. I want to meet girls as they are not have a facade shown to me by them covering their real life at home. Don't think for one moment because she tells you X and X about her life over the internet it is true - sometimes it might be. I want to work with knowing I am dealing with reality, that way there isn't anything for me to get paranoid over ;) and I think better relationship prospects all round. What's the point of getting with a girl and she's told me this or that but despite being intimate with her I don't really know anything for certain, not much I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 06, 2017, 05:53:59 PM
Hello all.....
Over the last 8 months I've followed this forum, read a majority of starting out, experienced and married. I feel like I know most of the regular members here. 

I've taken it all on board, the pit falls, the red flags, members despair their successes . I've read most of your advice Trench and  I've cheered for you , felt your pain and also shook my head in disbelief, please don't take offence... 

...I'm planning a holiday to visit her in her home town and it will be anther 3 months until this occurs. The total time we will have corresponded will be 11 months. I might be naive and this may not be the norm of  "get on a plane as soon as you can"  but I'm  glad I didn't follow that advice, this feels for me the right way to progress.

Trench from a complete novice  ( myself ) to someone who has much more experience, the lessons I've learn are this and bare in mind I've only conversed with one amazing woman .....

 Choose someone your own age, you will have much more in common and will be in the same stage in life ( no offence to the guys who have younger wives ).

Don't rush things, I made that mistake in my first  marriage, she was slim and attractive, but we didn't suit each other, we didn't take the time to really know each other, before making a commitment.

There are women out there that don't exhibit any red flags, don't settle for less. Your only concern will be trying to fathom, why the seeming perfect woman is interested in me.

When I meet this woman, as I do locally, I will pay for the regular things a man does, when he's dating, but a genuine woman will never ask for you to spend money on her, she will find happiness in  your company and not material things, from this happiness you won't mind giving gifts to show how much you care for her.   

Lastly, don't over analyze her behaviour or the relationship, you know in your heart when it feels right.

Many of you can probably point out many mistakes in my thought process, I guess I'll find out soon :)

Ok Davo, I cut out the boring stuff in your post ;D

Well the girl I sort of with she rejected stuff being sent to her (a possible Red Flag, I think more so now) instead she waited until we were together to pester me into buying this or that. I did so as I thought we had a real relationship there. We both agreed that we were serious and were intimate together.

Corresponding a lot is not a problem, most try to condense it down to a few months. I probably didn't Skype enough but when the girl does not speak good English and she gets tired quickly of trying then it tends to be that way. As 2tallbill points out though, getting on well on Skype and meeting in person are two different things, there may well be chemistry there you'll only find out for definite when there. That is the bitch of doing visit one, you invest so much time, money, effort but most of all emotional energy in one girl that if it doesn't work out its feels so bad. Some can perhaps walk away from a situation easier than others. I know 2tallbill states he set up vo's then if nothing there quickly moved to sourcing other women of the dating sites. Myself I would find this difficult unless the girl was a real bad one or just quit the date anyway. I would personally rather just go out there with an empty hand next time for a fair old time and source women of the dating sites once there.

I can tell Davo you are already set up to go out there and meet her and while she sounds good be careful. My girl came across as warm, caring, affectionate, genuine, sincere but many can hide bad intentions and self serving attitudes. You are no doubt more people skilled than I am but its so easy to be taken in. I would suggest before committing to any relationship decision once with her probe her to find out if she seems particularly after/strongly about anything. She might just be after obtaining immigration or what ever its not always money. A smart girl in Ukraine/FSU knows she can earn far more in US, UK, Australia, etc than she ever could in Ukraine or Russia, etc. Its the dumb girl that will go after a few shopping items, holiday whoring, lol, which are only ever short term gains. Good Luck!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 06, 2017, 07:31:09 PM
Corresponding a lot is not a problem, most try to condense it down to a few months. I probably didn't Skype enough but when the girl does not speak good English and she gets tired quickly of trying then it tends to be that way.

How many times have you been told that, if a FSUW is "into you," you will know it?  If she can't be bothered improving her English enough to hold conversations on Skype then she obviously doesn't care anywhere nearly as much as you thought.

As 2tallbill points out though, getting on well on Skype and meeting in person are two different things, there may well be chemistry there you'll only find out for definite when there.

True - but if she couldn't be bothered making the effort on Skype, why on earth waste your time going to meet her in person?

That is the bitch of doing visit one, you invest so much time, money, effort but most of all emotional energy in one girl that if it doesn't work out its feels so bad. Some can perhaps walk away from a situation easier than others... Myself I would find this difficult unless the girl was a real bad one or just quit the date anyway.

That's become painfully obvious - and yet there are so many negative things you've posted about her that it's clear to everyone else on this forum that (for you, at least) she IS "a real bad one."  :cluebat:

As for the rest of your post - fuggedaboutit!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2017, 07:41:05 PM
Well the girl I sort of with she rejected stuff being sent to her (a possible Red Flag, I think more so now) instead she waited until we were together to pester me into buying this or that. I did so as I thought we had a real relationship there. We both agreed that we were serious and were intimate together.

That's not a red flag.  Even the spending spree isn't if you agreed to it.

Note what I posted above.  I don't care what jone posted, Kherson is a backward dump with few jobs.  Yes, it's a "pretty" town, most towns in Ukraine are.  By "dump", I mean no prospects for a normal life.  She doesn't want people to know she has goods from abroad, it will cause jealousy and issues for her.

This obsession with "red flags" is unhealthy.  What you should be seeking is someone who wants the same lifestyle you do.  That is what HDL was referring to when he said he skyped with his lady a lot before they met in person.  He knew what her goals in life were, and how they would align with his.  That is why you skype.   Skype should be used as a screen to discard women who don't have the same goals in life that you do.

Personally, I think your obsession with being the "boss" means you are doomed in most any relationship.  Women want a man with testosterone, but most don't want to be ruled by a man.

Quote
I can tell Davo you are already set up to go out there and meet her and while she sounds good be careful. My girl came across as warm, caring, affectionate, genuine, sincere but many can hide bad intentions and self serving attitudes. You are no doubt more people skilled than I am but its so easy to be taken in. I would suggest before committing to any relationship decision once with her probe her to find out if she seems particularly after/strongly about anything. She might just be after obtaining immigration or what ever its not always money. A smart girl in Ukraine/FSU knows she can earn far more in US, UK, Australia, etc than she ever could in Ukraine or Russia, etc. Its the dumb girl that will go after a few shopping items, holiday whoring, lol, which are only ever short term gains. Good Luck!

Once again with the scammers.

First, the standard of living in Russia is not particularly bad.  There are at least two former posters here who, after their divorces, returned to Russia.  Leaving your family, your language, and often, a good job, for a country where you will always be a foreigner is not nothing. Ukraine is different because of economic and political difficulties currently. 

The shopping trip is just someone from poverty seeing things she could never afford, and being with someone for whom, she assumes, these expenses mean little. 

You think you were taken advantage of. You weren't.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2017, 07:45:31 PM
How many times have you been told that, if a FSUW is "into you," you will know it?  If she can't be bothered improving her English enough to hold conversations on Skype then she obviously doesn't care anywhere nearly as much as you thought.


If he's into her, why isn't he learning her language enough to converse with her?  Doesn't that go both ways?

Quote
That's become painfully obvious - and yet there are so many negative things you've posted about her that it's clear to everyone else on this forum that (for you, at least) she IS "a real bad one."


I disagree with this, and with the sentiment in general.  She may not be what most men want in a wife, but that doesn't mean she is a "bad" one.  It just means her goals don't align with what some, perhaps most, here want in a wife.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 06, 2017, 08:13:41 PM
If he's into her, why isn't he learning her language enough to converse with her?  Doesn't that go both ways?

Although I speak a little bit of Russian, I've changed my mind on this over the years, to the extent that I now agree pretty much with ML (and others) who point out that, if a woman from the FSU moves to a country where another language predominates, she needs to learn that language (whether it be English, French [Patagonie] or Norwegian [The Natural and Northkape]).  If this girl was into Trenchcoat as much as he hoped, then she should have been happy to make the effort.

That's not to say that Trenchcoat shouldn't be learning at least some Ukrainian - as he still has dreams of moving there next year, "some" is an absolute minimum.

I disagree with this, and with the sentiment in general.  She may not be what most men want in a wife, but that doesn't mean she is a "bad" one.  It just means her goals don't align with what some, perhaps most, here want in a wife.

You're missing my point.  From what Trenchcoat has described, she is a "bad one" FOR HIM.  She may well be a wonderful person in reality, but his description is of a typically self-centred girl in her early 20s, who is nowhere near ready to settle down with Trenchcoat in the lifestyle he proposes.  That's why I have continually posted that he should dump her and look for someone else who is better-suited.  I honestly can't see her being too broken-hearted!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2017, 08:20:08 PM
Given that he may not be serious about her, why should she learn English?  Perhaps she'll end up with a Swede, or a German, or an Italian.

People in Kherson speak Russian, not Ukrainian.

Fair enough on the comment, but I don't think Trench is going to find what he has professed he is looking for in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on August 06, 2017, 08:47:07 PM
Trench, you still obsessing over this girl?  :cluebat:

Kherson is a dump like Zaporozhye. Didn't see chicken roaming the town. I liked Lviv the best in Ukraine. Didn't see obstacle course of pot holes. And the architecture is wonderful.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 06, 2017, 09:02:45 PM
If he's into her, why isn't he learning her language enough to converse with her?  Doesn't that go both ways?


I'm with Kiwi on this one but if Trench was into his woman, he'd trust her. She's probably wondering if he is into her as he is wondering if she is into him.

I liked Lviv the best in Ukraine. Didn't see obstacle course of pot holes. And the architecture is wonderful.


Cities and towns in West Ukraine tried their best to resist Soviet architecture. That's why it's more beautiful over there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 06, 2017, 10:54:49 PM
Trench, you still obsessing over this girl?  :cluebat:

Kherson is a dump like Zaporozhye. Didn't see chicken roaming the town. I liked Lviv the best in Ukraine. Didn't see obstacle course of pot holes. And the architecture is wonderful.

'Ri-ight'..so we should choose our partners based on the beauty of the city ?  ;)

We've got friends from Kherson - Mum lives in Sochi - her grown son lives in Sochi and he is divorced and the ex-wife is still Kherson and the - now - just 18 year old daughter and her Grandma go back and forth ( via ) Crimea!

They are lovely people - the salt of the earth.


I've never been to Kherson - but chatted to a lass from there - four years ago - before meeting SC.... Things were not good then - she was 'an accountant' and when the war kicked off - we stayed in touch for another two years. She certainly wasn't the type of woman that would jump at the chance to leave her city - she  had a very jaded 
view of dating foreign men. Not the sort that needed to be 'rescued'

 Just an example - she may have a different attitude, now.. Her daughter will be of Uni age.



 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2017, 11:06:32 PM
I didn't post that there were chickens in the town.  But if you wander just outside of town, you will see them.

The point is not that a woman is desperate to leave her hometown, it is a) she may want to see more of the world; and b) in these small cities, everyone knows everyone else's business. 

Things are much worse there now, moby.  I sense a real undercurrent of malaise in Ukraine now, though I was only there a short time this year.  My husband sensed it as well, and he was there longer.  It is a potentially explosive situation, mostly created by the current government.

Western Ukrainian cities are not more beautiful than those in Central Ukraine, but they were less destroyed by war.  Khreshchatyk (Kyiv's main street) was beautiful before WWII, when the fleeing communists blew it up.  Most of Kyiv's architecture was destroyed by the Bolsheviks.  I have a book on the lost architecture of Kyiv, which has a huge number of churches.  My husband remembers going to school and passing a church every morning.  One day, when he walked home from school, the church was gone.  Not even a brick remained. Vinnitsya, which is part of Western Ukraine, was bombed by the Germans.  The train station in Ternopil was destroyed during the war.  Most of the churches in Eastern/Central Ukraine were destroyed by the communists.  Same in Western Ukraine.  I've always thought Kyiv is the most beautiful city in Ukraine, although I'm not crazy about its post Soviet architectural additions.  The Hyatt is a crime against humanity.  Nevertheless, I still prefer Kyiv to L'viv.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 07, 2017, 12:22:46 AM
Western Ukrainian cities are not more beautiful than those in Central Ukraine, but they were less destroyed by war. 


A lot of Soviet architecture went up after the war. Those ugly cut and paste block apartments are all over the FSU but are rarely seen in Western Ukraine. There is a clear difference in theme of buildings between Western Ukraine and other parts of the FSU. Lviv even has a cemetery so beautiful, there are numerous tour buses parked outside at any given time and tour guides, speaking many different languages, guiding groups through the cemetery.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 07, 2017, 12:51:11 AM

Things are much worse there now, moby.  I sense a real undercurrent of malaise in Ukraine now, though I was only there a short time this year.  My husband sensed it as well, and he was there longer.  It is a potentially explosive situation, mostly created by the current government.

Thanks, for the update, Boethius ...  My most recent' trips' to Ukraine have been fleeting - the SLOW train to Moscow -
 from 'Abkhazia' stops at the border with Lugansk Oblast ( still under Kyiv control)  folks get on the train to sell produce and get off at the next stop - the train going 10km inside Ukraine.


Our friends from Kherson have varying views of the situation - the son - in his early 40's thinks "only Russia can help" - he doesn't go back .... his Ma is more circumspect



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 07, 2017, 05:57:09 AM
That's not a red flag.  Even the spending spree isn't if you agreed to it.

Note what I posted above.  I don't care what jone posted, Kherson is a backward dump with few jobs.  Yes, it's a "pretty" town, most towns in Ukraine are.  By "dump", I mean no prospects for a normal life.  She doesn't want people to know she has goods from abroad, it will cause jealousy and issues for her.

This obsession with "red flags" is unhealthy.  What you should be seeking is someone who wants the same lifestyle you do.  That is what HDL was referring to when he said he skyped with his lady a lot before they met in person.  He knew what her goals in life were, and how they would align with his.  That is why you skype.   Skype should be used as a screen to discard women who don't have the same goals in life that you do.

Personally, I think your obsession with being the "boss" means you are doomed in most any relationship.  Women want a man with testosterone, but most don't want to be ruled by a man.

Once again with the scammers.

First, the standard of living in Russia is not particularly bad.  There are at least two former posters here who, after their divorces, returned to Russia.  Leaving your family, your language, and often, a good job, for a country where you will always be a foreigner is not nothing. Ukraine is different because of economic and political difficulties currently. 

The shopping trip is just someone from poverty seeing things she could never afford, and being with someone for whom, she assumes, these expenses mean little. 

You think you were taken advantage of. You weren't.

This is where you and 2tallbill differ, he is big on 'driving the bus' and states it is bad the moment you are not. I see it as bad if you are with a scammer she will take you for all its worth. I'm not saying my girl was a scammer as such. It seems to me her obsession with gaining a UK visa seems that that is what she is after rather than me. Boethius I think your depiction of Kherson will be accurate enough, I went to Nikolaev last year and it will be no doubt somewhat similar, a nice enough place to walk around albeit the concrete tenement blocks but few opportunities. If a girl want to be with me and better opportunities fine, if its just the opportunities then there is a problem. I know you can't control someone but I'm not having a girl use me as a mule then move on as soon as she is here - I cannot properly assess her loyalty after two one week holidays together. I need far more time yet she doesn't want to see me anywhere else than UK. I mean its not doubt possible to put up with a guy for a week or two to get what you want, its harder over the course of several weeks together, cracks will often begin to show.

I too wondered about the stuff she bought in Cyprus, I mean a fair amount of that stuff was brand stuff and if she walked around in as much of it as I bought her then she could make herself a target, jealousy as you say and I'm guessing from what you say people soon turn upon you there. I don't know what she does with it, whether she sells it or just tries it on in her bedroom but too much of a risk anywhere else, lol. Seems almost pointless buying it but if she likes to do the girly thing in her bedroom then maybe that's it.

Yes I agreed that she could buy her one or two items but she was unstoppable. No doubt a lot of girls think everyone in the west are rich and the streets are paved with gold, this is not true. If you stand around in a shop buying stuff all day then money soon goes particularly when buying brand items. That is a big problem here, the girl has no idea of how much stuff is worth and reality if it were her own money she would be more careful, but of course her own money isn't really hers as it goes on rent. The way I would see to resolve this would be for her to have a part time job in UK and she uses that for clothes shopping money, that way she get to know what money is worth and what it takes to earn it. 

Yes some girls go for way more pricey things like expensive jewellery, it was more her attitude than anything else. I've mentioned the food she ordered then didn't eat already but there was also suntanning/aftersun products she bought except it wasn't the decent standard Ambre Solaire stuff it was staff that came to about £100 for a few tubes/bottle of suntanning lotion/aftersun, crazy. I mean it was starting to take the pee a bit. Maybe she wanted to act it up as a spoilt LA teen but it was ruining our relationship. I wanted to go there for a nice holiday enjoying Cyprus and each others company not go there and see my wallet take a pounding from over-excessive purchases.

Anyway, unless something happens on the visiting front I can't see this relationship going any further to tackle the shopping problem. I mean her not wanting me to visit Kherson without giving me an adequate explanation isn't on, I've stated the problems with her visiting the UK. Yet on Kherson all I get is she won't meet with me and that's it. What am I supposed to do with that?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 07, 2017, 05:58:58 AM
Given that he may not be serious about her, why should she learn English?  Perhaps she'll end up with a Swede, or a German, or an Italian.

English is very much a lingua franca amongst at least the younger generation in Western Europe.  Wherever you go, you will find plenty who speak English, and speak it well.  It's a lot different now from when I visited in 1987, when French people (for example) were actively discouraged from speaking English, and caused a lot of tourists to swear that they would never visit such a rude country again.  :D  Admittedly that attitude was far more prevalent in Paris than in the provinces, but it was a complete contrast to what I found in Germany and Scandinavia.

No matter where she ends up, English will be useful to her to some extent.  She can worry about another language if and when she gets swept off her feet by Romeo, Jean-Claude or Jurgen!

People in Kherson speak Russian, not Ukrainian.

Noted, but I would expect that, even there, more Ukrainian is spoken than before the invasion.

...but I don't think Trench is going to find what he has professed he is looking for in Ukraine.

No kidding!  I think that you would have the ALMOST unanimous support of the entire membership on that one.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 07, 2017, 06:13:12 AM
How many times have you been told that, if a FSUW is "into you," you will know it?  If she can't be bothered improving her English enough to hold conversations on Skype then she obviously doesn't care anywhere nearly as much as you thought.

True - but if she couldn't be bothered making the effort on Skype, why on earth waste your time going to meet her in person?

That's become painfully obvious - and yet there are so many negative things you've posted about her that it's clear to everyone else on this forum that (for you, at least) she IS "a real bad one."  :cluebat:

As for the rest of your post - fuggedaboutit!

See this is the reason I don't reply to you often Kiwi, you don't understand the problem. She is trying to learn English - yes she learnt some in School but I learnt French, was I much good, no, same goes for Ukrainians/Russians. Some are better than others, some need more help, particularly if its been a few years since she last spoke it. That I can understand and of course she is going to get tired speaking it and trying to understand me if she's a bit rusty on it, and of course tired after the long hours she apparently works. Yes a fluent speaker is preferable but I also need to look at the girl and if we seem to get on/chemistry together. So no I obviously can't have real lengthy conversations with her particularly as she uses camera phone and connectivity is not good. We are unassumingly talking of real life situation here, normal people that have daily routines and can't sit around Skyping ever hour under the sun, some of us have to work you know ;D

Funny, I said the same thing about learning English Language to her, that its the most common language, particularly in Europe so best one for her to learn. A bit like why I chose to try and learn Russian instead of Ukrainian as its more widely used in FSU so avoid me having to learn a different language each time if I chose to look in different FSU countries. Not ideal but best all round solution. She said the same as Boethius, on why learning English when she might meet someone of a different country/language, but end of the day few people are linguistically gifted enough to be able to learn them all/pick up any language quickly.

My methodology was wrong, I should have insisted on visiting her in her home city to start with though she probably would have rejected that and seeing me, lol. That is why I'm going to a city in FSU to date in future. The negative stuff I've posted about her is because of issues in the relationship, there are positives as well but her obstruction to me taking things further on my terms are really putting a block on this relationship that I wished wasn't there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 07, 2017, 08:06:26 AM
The part of the approach that causes the most issues is you're fear of being used,compounded by chasing women at a stage in life most likely to use you.She, and most that age have not become who they will be in 5 or ten years. They live for today, and have not settled down or really thought of the future that much.
As far as English :
1.a woman that's into you won't tire of trying to communicate.
2.English fluency ,even in kherson,  is a  boost in potential jobs and opportunities.

You need to look for a woman who is at your stage in life,that values what you value, whose priorities match your own.
It can happen with a twenty something,  but what are the odds?
You make finding a needle in the haystack, more akin to finding a grain of sugar on the surface of the moon .

The priorities on your search hamper everything. Good or bad method won't significantly matter  in comparison.

I married a much younger woman, so I'm throwing stones from a glass house,  but I do know the difficulty and odds in finding what you seek in that age group.
My wife was certainly ready to get married and start a family, that was her priority. Yes you can tell that with a great degree of confidence just nmby how and what someone talks about, what their interests are, how they are around their family and friends,  how they are around children etc.including *who* thy buy stuff for, who is in their thoughts.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 07, 2017, 12:15:35 PM
A lot of Soviet architecture went up after the war. Those ugly cut and paste block apartments are all over the FSU but are rarely seen in Western Ukraine. There is a clear difference in theme of buildings between Western Ukraine and other parts of the FSU. Lviv even has a cemetery so beautiful, there are numerous tour buses parked outside at any given time and tour guides, speaking many different languages, guiding groups through the cemetery.

There is a whole city of those "ugly cut and paste apartment blocks" halfway between L'viv and Ivano Frankivsk.

L'viv has its share of Soviet architecture - the Polytechnical University, the Pioneer Palace (now renamed "Prohulinka"),  the Veterinary Academy main building, the bus station.  It also does have Soviet era apartment buildings.  I've been in Soviet built apartments in Ivano Frankivsk and Ternopil.  I've also been in Soviet built hotels in Ternopil, Vinnitsya, and Chernivtsi.

Baikove cemetery in Kyiv is as beautiful, I think more so, than L'viv's Lychakiv cemetery.  I've been to both.  I had a friend who spent an afternoon in Baikove cemetery, searching for the grave of Ivan Franko.  I disappointed her when I told her he's buried in L'viv.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 07, 2017, 12:31:55 PM
This is where you and 2tallbill differ, he is big on 'driving the bus' and states it is bad the moment you are not.

I think he means going there with purpose.  He definitely does not mean your way or the highway.

Quote
I see it as bad if you are with a scammer she will take you for all its worth. I'm not saying my girl was a scammer as such. It seems to me her obsession with gaining a UK visa seems that that is what she is after rather than me.

Accept it as the reality.  It's the case with almost any FSUW who marries a WM.  It doesn't mean she won't love him or be a good wife.
Quote
I think your depiction of Kherson will be accurate enough, I went to Nikolaev last year and it will be no doubt somewhat similar, a nice enough place to walk around albeit the concrete tenement blocks but few opportunities. If a girl want to be with me and better opportunities fine, if its just the opportunities then there is a problem. I know you can't control someone but I'm not having a girl use me as a mule then move on as soon as she is here - I cannot properly assess her loyalty after two one week holidays together. I need far more time yet she doesn't want to see me anywhere else than UK. I mean its not doubt possible to put up with a guy for a week or two to get what you want, its harder over the course of several weeks together, cracks will often begin to show.
What makes you think you will be able to discern that in Kherson?  As I posted previously, I knew UM who married women who only wanted a propiska (stamp enabling them to live in Kyiv in Soviet times).  If they couldn't suss it out, despite being from the same culture, what chance do you have?

Quote
I too wondered about the stuff she bought in Cyprus, I mean a fair amount of that stuff was brand stuff and if she walked around in as much of it as I bought her then she could make herself a target, jealousy as you say and I'm guessing from what you say people soon turn upon you there. I don't know what she does with it, whether she sells it or just tries it on in her bedroom but too much of a risk anywhere else, lol. Seems almost pointless buying it but if she likes to do the girly thing in her bedroom then maybe that's it.

No, people likely will assume she bought knock offs at the market.
Quote
Yes I agreed that she could buy her one or two items but she was unstoppable. No doubt a lot of girls think everyone in the west are rich and the streets are paved with gold, this is not true. If you stand around in a shop buying stuff all day then money soon goes particularly when buying brand items. That is a big problem here, the girl has no idea of how much stuff is worth and reality if it were her own money she would be more careful, but of course her own money isn't really hers as it goes on rent. The way I would see to resolve this would be for her to have a part time job in UK and she uses that for clothes shopping money, that way she get to know what money is worth and what it takes to earn it. 

It's still your fault for acquiescing in buying her everything she wanted.

Quote
Yes some girls go for way more pricey things like expensive jewellery, it was more her attitude than anything else. I've mentioned the food she ordered then didn't eat already but there was also suntanning/aftersun products she bought except it wasn't the decent standard Ambre Solaire stuff it was staff that came to about £100 for a few tubes/bottle of suntanning lotion/aftersun, crazy. I mean it was starting to take the pee a bit. Maybe she wanted to act it up as a spoilt LA teen but it was ruining our relationship. I wanted to go there for a nice holiday enjoying Cyprus and each others company not go there and see my wallet take a pounding from over-excessive purchases.

I've explained the restaurant.  It is common there.  People there don't view restaurants as feedlots.  They go to restaurants for the experience, to try foods they would never be able to try otherwise.  Choosing the most expensive sunblock=typical "Soviet/post Soviet" mentality - the more expensive, the better it is.  She was acting completely within the standards of her society. 

Quote
Anyway, unless something happens on the visiting front I can't see this relationship going any further to tackle the shopping problem. I mean her not wanting me to visit Kherson without giving me an adequate explanation isn't on, I've stated the problems with her visiting the UK. Yet on Kherson all I get is she won't meet with me and that's it. What am I supposed to do with that?

You just don't get what everyone is telling you.  You are not going to change this behaviour.  She is not someone who is going to be a good wife.  Perhaps Jumper is correct, and she still needs to sort out who she is going to become, and is just not serious currently.  My view is we have set personalities pretty much from birth.  But in the end, unless you want to wait 5 to 10 years to determine if she will settle into being a decent wife, it doesn't matter. Unless you want to waste valuable time because you got laid.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 07, 2017, 12:44:03 PM
English is very much a lingua franca amongst at least the younger generation in Western Europe.  Wherever you go, you will find plenty who speak English, and speak it well.  It's a lot different now from when I visited in 1987, when French people (for example) were actively discouraged from speaking English, and caused a lot of tourists to swear that they would never visit such a rude country again.  :D  Admittedly that attitude was far more prevalent in Paris than in the provinces, but it was a complete contrast to what I found in Germany and Scandinavia.

No matter where she ends up, English will be useful to her to some extent.  She can worry about another language if and when she gets swept off her feet by Romeo, Jean-Claude or Jurgen!

Noted, but I would expect that, even there, more Ukrainian is spoken than before the invasion.

No kidding!  I think that you would have the ALMOST unanimous support of the entire membership on that one.

Our son is working this summer in an EU country.  He doesn't speak the local language, went with zero knowledge and can now understand about half of what is said to him.  He is often in areas where no one speaks English.  When he bought his SIM card, no one spoke English.  When he goes to the local market, again, no one speaks English.  At his work, which is at a major university, his coworkers can speak English, but communicate in their language.

When we were in Paris 3 years ago, people spoke English at tourist sites, but in shops and local restaurants, they didn't. 

The girl may find English useful in very rudimentary encounters, but if she is going to function in Swedish/German/French/Italian society, she will have to learn the local language.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 07, 2017, 02:20:25 PM
There is a whole city of those "ugly cut and paste apartment blocks" halfway between L'viv and Ivano Frankivsk.

L'viv has its share of Soviet architecture - the Polytechnical University, the Pioneer Palace (now renamed "Prohulinka"),  the Veterinary Academy main building, the bus station.  It also does have Soviet era apartment buildings.  I've been in Soviet built apartments in Ivano Frankivsk and Ternopil.  I've also been in Soviet built hotels in Ternopil, Vinnitsya, and Chernivtsi.



Kiev has some beautiful buildings, even some amazing Soviet architecture but outside of what government built for themselves, they built crap for citizens. In West Ukraine, people remodeled some of those ugly buildings by taking the flat roof and adding a peak, painting them bright colors, and adding window frames that resemble those used hundreds of years ago. Pound for pound, Lviv did a better job beautifying their city compared to what Kiev has done. WallM and I are two guys that notice a clear difference between Lviv and other cities. Not as much money in Ivano Frankivsk and other smaller towns to keep up with Lviv but people in West Ukraine certainly don't like Soviet architecture and would get rid of it if they could afford it.

http://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-lviv-elections-model-of-future/27323230.html
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 07, 2017, 03:25:25 PM
There is a whole city of those "ugly cut and paste apartment blocks" halfway between L'viv and Ivano Frankivsk.

L'viv has its share of Soviet architecture - the Polytechnical University, the Pioneer Palace (now renamed "Prohulinka"),  the Veterinary Academy main building, the bus station.  It also does have Soviet era apartment buildings.  I've been in Soviet built apartments in Ivano Frankivsk and Ternopil.  I've also been in Soviet built hotels in Ternopil, Vinnitsya, and Chernivtsi.

Baikove cemetery in Kyiv is as beautiful, I think more so, than L'viv's Lychakiv cemetery.  I've been to both.  I had a friend who spent an afternoon in Baikove cemetery, searching for the grave of Ivan Franko.  I disappointed her when I told her he's buried in L'viv.

Having visited both L'viv and Franko by train/plane numerous times once even connecting by bus (marchutka) on the outskirts there is more than enough "ugly cut and paste apartment blocks" there. You can find the same in Paris, near Amsterdam or NYC. But L'viv especially within its city lines remains beautiful and fascinating. It also has avoided the excesses of the post Soviet building era.

If you want to see really poor design I would suggest Leeds in England and Philadelphia in the States. Yet the historic center of both are interesting. And if you want to see the mother of all f/u go to Moscow. I should note I like modern architecture and suspect others disdain it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 07, 2017, 04:52:31 PM
I think he means going there with purpose.  He definitely does not mean your way or the highway.

Accept is as the reality.  It's the case with almost any FSUW who marries a WM.  It doesn't mean she won't love him or be a good wife.What makes you think you will be able to discern that in Kherson?  As I posted previously, I knew UM who married women who only wanted a propiska (stamp enabling them to live in Kyiv in Soviet times).  If they couldn't suss it out, despite being from the same culture, what chance do you have?

No, people likely will assume she bought knock offs at the market.
It's still your fault for acquiescing in buying her everything she wanted.

I've explained the restaurant.  It is common there.  People there don't view restaurants as feedlots.  They go to restaurants for the experience, to try foods they would never be able to try otherwise.  Choosing the most expensive sunblock=typical "Soviet/post Soviet" mentality - the more expensive, the better it is.  She was acting completely within the standards of her society. 

You just don't get what everyone is telling you.  You are not going to change this behaviour.  She is not someone who is going to be a good wife.  Perhaps Jumper is correct, and she still needs to sort out who she is going to become, and is just not serious currently.  My view is we have set personalities pretty much from birth.  But in the end, unless you want to wait 5 to 10 years to determine if she will settle into being a decent wife, it doesn't matter. Unless you want to waste valuable time because you got laid.

Well your right in her attitude not changing, just so weird that she just keeps repeating the same thing, won't respond to a reasoned argument (difficulty getting visa) or accept or suggest any compromise. What am I supposed to do just give into her? She won't accept my position at all.

I've heard from about the age of 20 a person's personality is set for life, but no doubt a lot of it is earlier anyway possibly person dependent also.

Being with her in Kherson I figure if she is intimate often then all is good, if not then she would be trying it on for a visa. She has stated she is serious about me & having children and even in her mid twenties fells like there is not much time left for her to do this, lol. I just can't really tell with her which is why I need to see her in Kherson if anything were to come of this I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on August 07, 2017, 06:05:45 PM
Well your right in her attitude not changing, just so weird that she just keeps repeating the same thing, won't respond to a reasoned argument (difficulty getting visa) or accept or suggest any compromise. What am I supposed to do just give into her? She won't accept my position at all.

You are supposed to have moved on from her weeks ago. :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 07, 2017, 06:14:52 PM
Having visited both L'viv and Franko by train/plane numerous times once even connecting by bus (marchutka) on the outskirts there is more than enough "ugly cut and paste apartment blocks" there. You can find the same in Paris, near Amsterdam or NYC. But L'viv especially within its city lines remains beautiful and fascinating. It also has avoided the excesses of the post Soviet building era.


Here is a building from within L'viv's city lines -


(http://www.karpaty.info/data/transport/img/lviv/4.jpg)


And more here -

http://lviv.com/en/urban-en/the-soviet-lviv-today-cosmodrome-pohulianka/ (http://lviv.com/en/urban-en/the-soviet-lviv-today-cosmodrome-pohulianka/)

I remember well both Kyiv and L'viv in Soviet times, and that's where one could really see that both cities had lots of Soviet architecture.  Kyiv had more in the city centre, partly because of WWII.

Kyiv's Podil was magical in its beauty.  Before the Revolution, it was the wealthiest area of the city, where the elite lived.  My husband's Great Grandfather's house still stands, but since the collapse of the USSR, most of those pre Soviet buildings have been torn down and replaced with ugly monstrosities.  Yet, I still prefer Kyiv for its greenery, it's botanical gardens, its hydropark. Another thing that is missing now (in addition to the appalling infrastructure) is flowers.  Everywhere you went in Soviet times, the city had beautiful flowers.  Sometimes in a Lenin head shape with a pithy slogan, but lots and lots of planted and well maintained flowers.

Yes, L'viv has not had the excesses in post Soviet architecture that Kyiv has, and those excesses have been tragic, given how many pre Revolution buildings have been destroyed.  However, it is due to a lack of interest/money, rather than the foresight of its city administration.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 07, 2017, 06:21:15 PM
Well your right in her attitude not changing, just so weird that she just keeps repeating the same thing, won't respond to a reasoned argument (difficulty getting visa) or accept or suggest any compromise. What am I supposed to do just give into her? She won't accept my position at all.


Is this how you wish to live the rest of your life?  Do you understand what I am posting?

Quote
I've heard from about the age of 20 a person's personality is set for life, but no doubt a lot of it is earlier anyway possibly person dependent also.


I've raised three children.  All their personalities are pretty much the same as they were as babies, pretty much from birth.  I've had other mothers tell me the same thing.

Quote
Being with her in Kherson I figure if she is intimate often then all is good, if not then she would be trying it on for a visa.

It means nothing.  This girl jumped into bed with you, I assume, shortly after your first meeting.  For her, sex is like water.  Unless you possess some magical powers as a man which makes you irresistible to women, which I doubt (or you wouldn't be looking abroad), do not take this as an indication of anything.
Quote
She has stated she is serious about me & having children and even in her mid twenties fells like there is not much time left for her to do this, lol.


Because in her culture, she is starting this at a late age.
Quote


I just can't really tell with her which is why I need to see her in Kherson if anything were to come of this I think.
Seeing her in Kherson will change nothing.  You are rationalizing something because you want it to be.  You are not seeing what is.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 07, 2017, 07:02:44 PM
See this is the reason I don't reply to you often Kiwi, you don't understand the problem.

No, Trenchcoat, it's you that, YET AGAIN, simply refuses to understand.  I (and many, MANY others on this forum) have been in your position in the past, which is why we're telling you why your approach simply won't work.  Admittedly I wasn't chasing twenty-somethings, but I made damned sure that whoever I went to visit was a reasonably good match for what I was looking for.  No, it didn't work out, and I'm not happily married to some smokinghotkova - but, by the same token, I'm not suffering all the angst that you are because of your seriously bad choice.

She is trying to learn English - yes she learnt some in School but I learnt French, was I much good, no, same goes for Ukrainians/Russians. Some are better than others, some need more help, particularly if its been a few years since she last spoke it. That I can understand and of course she is going to get tired speaking it and trying to understand me if she's a bit rusty on it, and of course tired after the long hours she apparently works.

So what?  You're missing this point, AGAIN!  If she was really into you she would be making much more effort than she appears to have done so far.

Yes a fluent speaker is preferable but I also need to look at the girl and if we seem to get on/chemistry together.

You're obviously still wondering of you really do have chemistry which, after all this time AND two holidays should be obvious.  My take is that you don't, so why not start looking for someone else with whom you DO have chemistry?

So no I obviously can't have real lengthy conversations with her particularly as she uses camera phone and connectivity is not good.

OK, so she doesn't have a computer.  Why not sometimes go to an internet cafe instead?  OK, she may not be able to discuss more personal items there because of the ears all around, but surely you would be better able to work through some of the more mundane stuff - like learning English.  It would surely be less stressful for her if she doesn't have to worry about holding the phone and whether or not the connection will hold.  You can also have her set Skype up with the simultaneous translation on a screen that she can actually read.

We are unassumingly talking of real life situation here, normal people that have daily routines and can't sit around Skyping ever hour under the sun, some of us have to work you know ;D

If the connection is there, you will forget about time limits.  Look at the posts from a couple of our new members, who have found that they're Skyping for anything up to 12 hours a day because they have so much to say to each other.

Funny, I said the same thing about learning English Language to her, that its the most common language, particularly in Europe so best one for her to learn. A bit like why I chose to try and learn Russian instead of Ukrainian as its more widely used in FSU so avoid me having to learn a different language each time if I chose to look in different FSU countries. Not ideal but best all round solution. She said the same as Boethius, on why learning English when she might meet someone of a different country/language, but end of the day few people are linguistically gifted enough to be able to learn them all/pick up any language quickly.

My point, which you actually appear to have heeded, is that there are far more English speakers scattered everywhere (not always in every town or village in Europe or the FSU, but enough), whereas it would take a lot of effort to find a Norwegian speaker in Llandudno or a Portuguese speaker in Amsterdam.

My methodology was wrong, I should have insisted on visiting her in her home city to start with though she probably would have rejected that and seeing me, lol.

In which case we would never have had months of a totally useless conversation, and you would possibly already be with the REAL future Mrs Trenchcoat!

That is why I'm going to a city in FSU to date in future. The negative stuff I've posted about her is because of issues in the relationship, there are positives as well but her obstruction to me taking things further on my terms are really putting a block on this relationship that I wished wasn't there.

Your attitude, and hers, simply show that you are totally incompatible.  :cluebat:  Why the hell can't you see that?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 07, 2017, 07:28:29 PM

Here is a building from within L'viv's city lines -

(http://www.karpaty.info/data/transport/img/lviv/4.jpg)


I know the building - it is some distance from the historic center of L'viv. I will guess miles as a crow flies or a solid almost 1 hour walk. As I recall it is on the opposite side of town from the train station and even farther from the center. But yes technically both are in L'viv.

NB: I was curious yes both the train station and bus station are over/almost three miles from the opera house and a long distance to center.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 07, 2017, 08:24:16 PM
Well your right in her attitude not changing, just so weird that she just keeps repeating the same thing, won't respond to a reasoned argument (difficulty getting visa) or accept or suggest any compromise. What am I supposed to do just give into her? She won't accept my position at all.

To ne it's not particularly the not see you in kherson,  it's that she is intractable about several decent options to spend time together.
Frankly you two don't get on well enough for her to insist on uk. She should be at the same stage as you are, still sorting out the relationship and the person,abd willing to meet you in Paris as example. (Not many uw would turn down paris )
Quote
I've heard from about the age of 20 a person's personality is set for life, but no doubt a lot of it is earlier anyway possibly person dependent also.
I think personalities are set.
That has very little to do with stage of life,or priorities in life and what ine values.

Yes an 8yr may have the same basic personality traits when he turns 49, but his priorities, and what's important to him are likely to be polar opposites (other than basic nessicities? )

  Few young people dont change priorities and substantially from 20 to 35.
If we arnt changing we arnt growing and maturing as an individual.
.

 
Quote
Being with her in Kherson I figure if she is intimate often then all is good, if not then she would be trying it on for a visa. She has stated she is serious about me & having children and even in her mid twenties fells like there is not much time left for her to do this, lol. I just can't really tell with her which is why I need to see her in Kherson if anything were to come of this I think.

She seems to mske little effort , and to be focused in what most women that age in her society are focused on..*what others (her peers )think*

She might mature out if that stage, and might not.
Doesn't make her a bad persin, makes it odd for you to chase her or wait fir her to grow up.
Unless you want a immature partner whose priorities are  frettting the brand (or husband) she has is good enough to make her peers envious , rather than focusing on life, career, family, or children?


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 07, 2017, 09:34:55 PM
What am I supposed to do just give into her? She won't accept my position at all.


She seems like a person that doesn't like to compromise. You're the kind of guy that likes to be in the driver's seat but easily ran over when push comes to shove.

Most here recommend dumping her but you don't want to. How about compromise? Disappear for a week and see if she gets worried about your welfare or you may learn she doesn't care if you stopped communicating. If she learns communication is breaking down, not because of your health but you getting turn off by her attitude, she can make adjustments to make you happy or keep a take it or leave it stance with you. She won't grow if you allow her to remain a spoiled brat by giving in to her every whim.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 07, 2017, 10:01:00 PM
Trench

This song is being played - a lot - on Russia's most popular music radio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txCCYBMKdB0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txCCYBMKdB0)

The Title :

I'm weak

( and what's wrong with that?)

It was written - for you ...  :D


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2017, 12:18:21 AM
Trench

This song is being played - a lot - on Russia's most popular music radio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txCCYBMKdB0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txCCYBMKdB0)

The Title :

I'm weak

( and what's wrong with that?)

It was written - for you ...  :D

Oooo that's bitchy Moby, you should wear your other half's underwear today ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2017, 12:29:40 AM

She seems to make little effort, and to be focused in what most women that age in her society are focused on..*what others (her peers )think*

She might mature out if that stage, and might not.

Unless you want a immature partner whose priorities are fretting the brand (or husband) she has is good enough to make her peers envious, rather than focusing on life, career, family, or children?

I wonder if you could well be right here Jumper, that she doesn't want me to visit because she doesn't want others to see me with her either because I'm a foreigner, older guy, not trendy to be seen with to her friends. In UK her friends will not be but then again she turns down options of other locations now as well. Quite possibly she just want immigration then move onto guy that suit her more, age wise, social adeptness wise, etc. Perhaps she is a little ashamed to be seen with me I don't know. Anyway she has not replied to my message for a number of days now. I don't see sufficient reason to chase her anymore, there are too many compatibility issues/red flags, call it what you will. I will get down to some work during this winter, get the money back in and myself sorted out in a position to go at this afresh in the Spring. I've learned a lot from this and think I am better prepared now for next time :D Next time I will get this right!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2017, 12:39:30 AM
Because in her culture, she is starting this at a late age.

I've heard this also, interesting you also concur, in the west as you no doubt now know many women leave it to into their thirties. So even though they can have women older in FSU it looks like they fret about it from a young age. I'm guessing because by the time a woman is in her mid to late twenties even all the decent men that she could have had are starting to go/have gone to other women. Hence as a woman gets into her thirties in Ukraine there are just the hobo's and the local drunks to chose from with little in the way of prospects or possibility of supporting a family.

In that case time for once is on my side (I never thought I would be saying that at my age, lol). I'll leave contacting her and see if she comes crawling back in time realizing that prospects for her are dwindling ;D In the meantime I'll enjoy myself seeing what else is out there :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 08, 2017, 01:26:33 AM
Perhaps she is a little ashamed to be seen with me I don't know.


Do you have a photo of you two together? We can give you an idea about that.


Anyway she has not replied to my message for a number of days now.


You should've done that first to see how bad she misses you. You may have turned her off with talk similar to what you've brought up here.

I don't see sufficient reason to chase her anymore, there are too many compatibility issues/red flags, call it what you will.


She may have seen too many red flags too. If you're putting out red flags, you need to figure out how to stop that otherwise the next girl will eventually drop you too.

I will get down to some work during this winter, get the money back in and myself sorted out in a position to go at this afresh in the Spring. I've learned a lot from this and think I am better prepared now for next time :D Next time I will get this right!


You won't have enough money to make another trip till Spring? That's a long time. Did you tell the girl you won't be able to see her for over half a year? If you're that tight on money to afford this adventure, it may be showing and penny pinching every step of the way will give the girls the impression you're a greedy man.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 08, 2017, 02:00:50 AM
Oooo that's bitchy Moby

More accurate than you can know, I suspect ;)

you should wear your other half's underwear today ;D

"What's underwear - she might say "? ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 08, 2017, 08:09:18 AM

(http://www.karpaty.info/data/transport/img/lviv/4.jpg)


Odd seeing the building again, if it was cleaned up it would be an interesting piece of architecture. I know some find this style ugly but if the windows were unified and the kiosks as well advertising removed. My guess this was the origional intent. It would be impressive, it also is quite functional.

Odd as you walk away after a LONG bus ride you can not see this, I remember seeing a building in Zhytomyr that looked ugly but in reality it was very pure modernist style. There are two hotels in Kiev that still stand and are in a way perfect examples of Soviet modern style. I want to say one is Dubrovnik and the other Concorde.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2017, 09:53:33 AM
Do you have a photo of you two together? We can give you an idea about that.


You should've done that first to see how bad she misses you. You may have turned her off with talk similar to what you've brought up here.

She may have seen too many red flags too. If you're putting out red flags, you need to figure out how to stop that otherwise the next girl will eventually drop you too.

You won't have enough money to make another trip till Spring? That's a long time. Did you tell the girl you won't be able to see her for over half a year? If you're that tight on money to afford this adventure, it may be showing and penny pinching every step of the way will give the girls the impression you're a greedy man.

In no way could I be described as a greedy man from the shopping spree that I endured, for sure some have been taken for far worse and if it was flagrant shopping scam I would have walked no matter what. It's not that I couldn't go before spring but that I want to be in a position to get it right. That means having all my finances in good shape and as best prepared as I can be. No more flying out for a brief trip for a week or so, I am planning to go native here.

I can't show you a photo as I want to keep anonymous and that stuff can now be looked up. Put it this way she looks a bit like Sarah Micheal Geller when she had dark brown hair. I am about 6ft tall, dark brown hair, full hair neatly trimmed, wear glasses, not overweight - I kind of look like a little shorter, little slimmer version of 2tallbill. I would say I'm attractive looking enough, no film star looks of course, and stuff I could improve on but not too bad. However, any girls that are conscious of their image, well I'm no socially slick guy and of course I'm a fair bit older than her and while not visibly greying at all or real old and wrinkly looking I'm not going to fool myself that the age difference will show a little. She says it doesn't bother her, but in her home town? That or itís because I'm a foreigner perhaps? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 08, 2017, 12:11:19 PM
I obviously can't have real lengthy conversations with her particularly as she uses camera phone and connectivity is not good. We are unassumingly talking of real life situation here, normal people that have daily routines and can't sit around Skyping ever hour under the sun, some of us have to work you know ;D

Angel Eyes skyped with me most days using her smart phone (I bought it for her)
She would have held a coat hanger out the window with her toes in February to
get better reception if she thought it would work. She would wake up two hours
earlier so that she could talk to me in my evenings. She wanted contact with
me every single day. (She still does, if I go on a trip I do NOT forget to call her).

If there is a will, there is a way. Nobody is more creative finding a way than an
FSUW if she is interested in a man. Nobody has more excuses than an FSUW
who isn't

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 08, 2017, 12:16:08 PM
Angel Eyes skyped with me most days using her smart phone (I bought it for her)
She would have held a coat hanger out the window with her toes in February to
get better reception if she thought it would work. She would wake up two hours
earlier so that she could talk to me in my evenings. She wanted contact with
me every single day. (She still does, if I go on a trip I do NOT forget to call her).

Most of the former Soviet Union is switching to Viber - Skype seems to dying. (Microsoft at its finest?)  Viber does seem to work better on an Apple iPhone.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 08, 2017, 01:59:57 PM
Most of the former Soviet Union is switching to Viber - Skype seems to dying. (Microsoft at its finest?)  Viber does seem to work better on an Apple iPhone.

Does it ? !!!


Skype is FAR better for video calls - if you stay away from the latest MS 'update' on Android / Apple - hangs on to video longer   Viber and Whatsapp give up ealrlier



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 08, 2017, 04:17:42 PM
One of the Hotels I was thinking of from the Modern period is called Salut (Salute) built/designed as far as I can see in 1984, which makes it late. 

I can not find the other one but I think it was a Southern Slavic reference. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on August 08, 2017, 06:01:30 PM
Most of the former Soviet Union is switching to Viber - Skype seems to dying. (Microsoft at its finest?)  Viber does seem to work better on an Apple iPhone.

While I would agree with you, AV, I think WhatsApp has the least intrusive kernel for interactive video.  It is what PB and I use, even though we both have Viber.  Viber is a pig on my laptop.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 08, 2017, 06:10:09 PM
One of the Hotels I was thinking of from the Modern period is called Salut (Salute) built/designed as far as I can see in 1984, which makes it late. 

I can not find the other one but I think it was a Southern Slavic reference.


Started in 1976, finished in 1984.  It was solely for party members.  There was another one right beside it, also exclusively for party members.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 10, 2017, 12:47:01 PM
I've heard from about the age of 20 a person's personality is set for life, but no doubt a lot
of it is earlier anyway possibly person dependent also.

Twenty year old girls are like a bread cooked in the oven for 10 minutes.
On the outside it looks and smells very tasty, but the inside isn't finished
yet. 20 year old girls are more self centered, more naive and their decision
making processes are still developing and they have little real life experience
for making decisions.

I believe, if a girl is honest when she is twenty then likely she will be honest
when she is thirty, but will she like the same things at twenty vs thirty?
probably not, her tastes will continue to develop and evolve. That's why I
tell men (unless they are twenty themselves) to seek women who are at
least 25 but 30 is even better because they have a little bit of life experience.

Most 25 year old girls who were never married may have never lived outside
their parents home.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 19, 2017, 01:17:32 AM
Classic, Trench


A girl that speaks English well can more easily get a job in UK/US and if she is pretty and has good social skills may then be very exposed to guys that may be better looking, earn more & more exciting social life/socially skilled than you.

You see an apparent 'advantage' can quickly work out to be very detrimental.


This is why you WILL fail again- your own hangups.. you are FAR too insecure... 

Plenty of pretty ladies seek a confident man who is happy in his own skin...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 19, 2017, 04:43:56 AM
Classic, Trench



This is why you WILL fail again- your own hangups.. you are FAR too insecure... 

Plenty of pretty ladies seek a confident man who is happy in his own skin...

Initially yes, but remember Mobe the UK has a bigger shortage of hotties than it has a shortage of housing - a good way for Kyn to remember that one ;D

If Kyn goes for a girl who's a 10 or anywhere close and she's in her twenties she WILL have a load of guys chasing her if she goes anywhere near anywhere urban. I once knew a guy who went out with a hottie, he was confident and I would presume reasonably handsome. Every time he turned his back in a pub restaurant some geezer would be there chatting up his girl, whether he went up to order food or go for a pee. He then had the awkwardness off getting rid of the guy without creating a brawl.

Just last night as I drove down the hill where I live towards the town centre, a place full of young guys, many of them Jack the Lad types - Guys that are uber confident - why? Because they are pretty boys who are extrovert with naturally strong social skills and know if they will either have a load of women chase THEM the moment they walk into town/bar or they can quickly pull nearly any girl they wish. They spend an inordinate amount of time on grooming and going to the gym which I dont have and are quite possibly some rich kiddie. They are athletic looking with visible muscles especially the one I saw going down the hill while in my car. He was with his mates wearing a tight white t-shirt to show off his toned physic. Now remember it's chuffing freezing out there at the moment yet this guy heads into town in a t-shirt just to pull any girl he desires. Now I am 6ft tall and average body shape, not fat but athletic, I can talk to a girl fine and be happy in each others company. I'm guessing Kyn is not a lot different - but really though how long do you think either of us would last if we brought a hottie in her twenties back here and she saw all of that, particularly if she interacted with those guys at work or wherever. No I am not stupid enough to realise that we likely would not las long (and that is probably an understatement) before she dropped us. A girl in her thirties who was say a 6 or 7 maybe even an 8 here we could well hold onto. I'm a realist this is not being negative but saying 'ok it's natural to think I am the best/wonderful/believe in myself, after all it is me but nearly everyone does that, nearly everyone goes out there to win, most guys can get happily in a girls company, but am I really as good as I think I am' I may think we are happy in each others company but when you see how full on and quickly extrovert guys move in & entertain women then you realise that as wonderful as I am they would leave me and probably Kyn for dust, they would be racing away.

So back to the point Kyn made about a girl not speaking good English - well if she doesn't then she can't interact as well with other guys back here in UK, she also is unlikely to get a job, etc. By the time she figured out good English she could be pregnant with your kids Kyn in which case unless you're a real asshole to her she will almost certainly stick with you. I prefer women with good English but I would say it's easy to overlook the advantages of a disadvantage. After all who wants to do all the work getting & bringing home a FSW to be a George Mcfly and have some cock sure geezer start cutting in.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 19, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
Initially yes, but remember Mobe the UK has a bigger shortage of hotties than it has a shortage of housing

Utter twaddle, again .... Look - I CHOSE to find a FSU partner - having lived in Cyprus, learnt the lingo to a degree and customs .... There is no shortage of good UK divorcees ...


If Kyn goes for a girl who's a 10 or anywhere close and she's in her twenties she WILL have a load of guys chasing her if she goes anywhere near anywhere urban. I once knew a guy who went out with a hottie, he was confident and I would presume reasonably handsome. Every time he turned his back in a pub restaurant some geezer would be there chatting up his girl, whether he went up to order food or go for a pee. He then had the awkwardness off getting rid of the guy without creating a brawl.

 :ROFL:

Are you for real ? .... Look, SC is nearly 50 and gets chatted up by young studs half her age - who are FAR more handsome, fit and even might have more money ...   She stays on in Thailand when I'm working and 'gets offers' ...  She knows my ex-wife now lives 5 miles away - when I'm in the UK ...    I get more 'annoyed' by the stares she gets from other FSU women ...


So back to the point Kyn made about a girl not speaking good English - well if she doesn't then she can't interact as well with other guys back here in UK, she also is unlikely to get a job, etc. By the time she figured out good English she could be pregnant with your kids Kyn in which case unless you're a real asshole to her she will almost certainly stick with you. I prefer women with good English but I would say it's easy to overlook the advantages of a disadvantage. After all who wants to do all the work getting & bringing home a FSW to be a George Mcfly and have some cock sure geezer start cutting in.

OMG... do you REALLY believe getting pregant and having kids means a wife won't leave her husband ?

Do you think not speaking good English has been a barrier to guys getting into relationships and marrying ? 

Are you aware that to bring your wife to the UK she must be able to speak English to an acceptable level ?  ( Using the UK immigration route)

PLE-EASE, Trenchie...   STOP offering 'advice' when ALL it shows is your are in no position TO advise ...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 19, 2017, 03:13:57 PM
In part I agree Mobe, it's a long way to go to experience a lottery but that is what you get with talking beforehand in Skype - you cannot easily tell if there is attraction over Skype as you can in real life, it is essentially what it is, a series of moving picture frames, i.e frame rate. So it is like looking at  a girls photo and trying to tell if there would be natural chemistry

Deep breath ..and sighs ... 


Trouble with your experience is that it was absolutely the opposite with me...  After skyping SC - we got to the stage were we even agreed it was daft to book into another apartment for my first visit .... 

So, in my experience - you 'advice' - below - SUCKS.....   you  just didn't do 'due diligence'

I personally don't see myself going out to visit one again even with back ups. I would rather meet many since even skyping beforehand you are still essentially getting a blind date. The first girl I got on like a house on fire over Skype and we got on well during our dates but she was closed off and uninterested in any physical contact, the natural chemistry just was not there.

 :deadhorse:

As far ad Mila & Ed are concerned well Ed according to his website has a high record of success, one Mila as it sounds would be one for her to envy ;D

Any 'endorsement' or 'black mark' from the likes of you is not going to enhance / ruin someone's biz... 


No I think most people know a matchmaker cannot assure a match/success but I am dubious as to whether that is being aimed at here. I would have thought it to be elementary to facilitate more togetherness between a couple if the girl really did like the guy. After three meetings of both apparently liking each other and being there for the purpose of finding someone (supposedly) they were still at square one. Now apparently Ed charges a lot more than Mila but then again he is in the US where Mila is stuck out in Ukraine. As the article on rich Chinese going out to Ukraine highlighted it is possible to charge a lot out there but only if you have the girls available. This makes me wonder if Mila has much in the way of girls a viable or really knows how to go about this field after all her field of expertise is really as a terp. My thought is if Osis & others from what I have seen on here have the feeling that it's a path to avoid treading again then for many and indeed myself it is another avenue in which money and more importantly time & life chances could be wasted.

I'm just not the type that wants my hand holding and like to learn by my mistakes - but I can see such services being useful to a busy business man...   


I will tell you now Mobers I am just getting started on a whole new strategy for my next attempt at all of this and I'm pretty confident of a good outcome this time :D

Already given up on trying to date not too local UK lasses ? .....   

Really,  you need to smarten up your attitude and 'sense of humour', first... 

Don't think - even if we were invited - that SC needs to rush out and buy a new hat any times soon until you do take heed...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on November 19, 2017, 04:55:09 PM
Look who's back lol. Trench when's the last time you had a girlfriend, let alone a date.  Being serious.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Yes on November 20, 2017, 01:29:31 AM
Deep breath ..and sighs ... 


Trouble with your experience is that it was absolutely the opposite with me...  After skyping SC - we got to the stage were we even agreed it was daft to book into another apartment for my first visit .... 

So, in my experience - you 'advice' - below - SUCKS.....   you  just didn't do 'due diligence'
Why does his advice suck, because it doesn't correspond to yours?

His advice corresponds to mine when I first came here and I did just fine meeting ladies. "Due diligence" can work or not, it depends on many factors. That it worked for you doesn't mean it works across the board. His advice (mine also) worked just fine for me. Matter of fact, I was meeting girls daily back then.

Again, what he said is right as far as I'm concerned, yet your overemotional attacks persist. You may have more experience than he does, but I'll stack my experience to yours any day.

I have often said that the best way to be successful in this endeavor is to come, spend time on the ground and meet ladies naturally. Sure, you can establish contact beforehand, but it guarantees nothing. I used to come for a month at a time and had no problem meeting ladies in various cities in Russia without any prior contact. Some of whom would have married me had I gone down that road.

I will also say that there are as many, if not more, women willing to move country and marry a man they love (will eventually love) than at the height of the MOB era. I have no doubt about this. The only difference is that they don't belong to any MOB site.

@Trench,

You do, however, as many have pointed out, need to work on your self-confidence. You also need to understand that when you win a good woman's heart you will never have to worry whether she strays or not; she won't. You job after is only to continue to make her the most important person in your life.




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2017, 03:42:00 AM
Why does his advice suck, because it doesn't correspond to yours?


If you'd been reading the forum rather than trying to score points against mobe, you'd know that virtually every poster who is not living in Russia has said the same thing - get to know the women via skype.  Yes, it is imperfect, but a man won't be wasting time with a woman whose values/interests/temperament etc. are not what he is looking for, and vice versa.

Quote
@Trench,

You do, however, as many have pointed out, need to work on your self-confidence. You also need to understand that when you win a good woman's heart you will never have to worry whether she strays or not; she won't. You job after is only to continue to make her the most important person in your life.


He will never "get" that because of his attitude toward women, and that isn't going to change.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 20, 2017, 06:01:21 PM

If you'd been reading the forum rather than trying to score points against mobe, you'd know that virtually every poster who is not living in Russia has said the same thing - get to know the women via skype.  Yes, it is imperfect, but a man won't be wasting time with a woman whose values/interests/temperament etc. are not what he is looking for, and vice versa.


He will never "get" that because of his attitude toward women, and that isn't going to change.

I get what you & Mobe are saying that you know the girl is solid and can get on well together. Mobe for example was so solid that his girl let him stay at her place (presumably) rather than get an apartment. That's great, but he was still arriveing to a blind date even though they skyped a lot, there might have been no natural attraction. Now at his age Mobe is no doubt grateful for anyone to listen to his geriatric ramblings ;D whether she they turn out to be best mates or much more.

I do not find solid girls hard to meet through meet one method, yes my inexperience in international dating has led to a few miss-fires but I have learn't from that and now know what to look out for and how to go about matters, I'm not saying I'm an expert or won't make slip ups in future, but I'm pretty sure I've got a better grip at this FSU dating scene now. I would rather travel and find a girl FIRST where there was full on natural attraction/chemistry and do all the values/interests/temperament etc that I cannot see/assess online after. I'm a pretty easy going guy, for example I am not religious but if I girl I was into was then I would not have a beef with it, it would be up to her and I would let her please herself. I also realize that people don't see things as I do and I'm happy for them to be somewhat different - if it is vastly at odds like a material girl, then I am happy to look at options but in some cases no it may not work. That is a risk I am willing to take, I'm not looking for a perfect match I'm just looking for someone I can co-exist with and have a fulfilling relationship. Sure many people Skype first but why accept the default way as the only way. I have wasted much time in the past getting to know girls for it to not work out - that skype & messaging time is then wasted. It's not to say I didn't take some joy out of conversing with them but ultimately its wasted time. If I were to start messaging and Skyping girls now for example I would be starting down the same path and once on the railroad tracks as the say.... I would most probably end up at the same destination of random outcomes on meet with girl, no I just don't fancy doing that again. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 20, 2017, 06:58:14 PM
Why does his advice suck, because it doesn't correspond to yours?

Hello, Danchik... which of us is in an long term relationship - that includes you .....? ( QED)

His advice corresponds to mine when I first came here and I did just fine meeting ladies.
"Due diligence" can work or not, it depends on many factors. That it worked for you doesn't mean it works across the board. His advice (mine also) worked just fine for me. Matter of fact, I was meeting girls daily back then.

You are still 'meeting ladies' - and whilst this may be your choice - you seem to forget that Trenchcoat isn't 'on the ground'  -  that most guys conduct their 'due diligence' from afar

Again, what he said is right as far as I'm concerned, yet your overemotional attacks persist. You may have more experience than he does, but I'll stack my experience to yours any day.

Your 'experience' is serial dating - and whilst that might be your idea of 'success' - I've actually read Trench's posts and he has always made it clear that he seeks a LTR...  Most confident guys have no trouble getting dates in the west - or in Moscow.


I have often said that the best way to be successful in this endeavor is to come, spend time on the ground and meet ladies naturally. Sure, you can establish contact beforehand, but it guarantees nothing. I used to come for a month at a time and had no problem meeting ladies in various cities in Russia without any prior contact. Some of whom would have married me had I gone down that road.

Danchik, not many would disagree with you - re spending time on the ground being infinitely superior. Especially, if serial dating is your bag...

I will also say that there are as many, if not more, women willing to move country and marry a man they love (will eventually love) than at the height of the MOB era. I have no doubt about this. The only difference is that they don't belong to any MOB site.

Once again, agree and your advice below is sound.

@Trench,

You do, however, as many have pointed out, need to work on your self-confidence. You also need to understand that when you win a good woman's heart you will never have to worry whether she strays or not; she won't. You job after is only to continue to make her the most important person in your life.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 20, 2017, 08:40:45 PM
I get what you & Mobe are saying that you know the girl is solid and can get on well together.

No,  you didn't,  or you wouldn'the be posting daft like below...
Mobe for example was so solid that his girl let him stay at her place (presumably) rather than get an apartment. That's great, but he was still arriveing to a blind date even though they skyped a lot, there might have been no natural attraction.

You confused my point that the likes of Skype can be a great pre meeting in reality tool with the trust built up in a monogamous relationship.. ((

IF you took the time to read, properly..you'd realise there was no 'presumably' ....we just knew that my staying in another apartment to court the only woman I had come to meet was pointless. ...


Now at his age Mobe is no doubt grateful for anyone to listen to his geriatric ramblings ;D whether she they turn out to be best mates or much more.

Remind us, which of us is 'theorising' while the other lives the dream ? ;)

I do not find solid girls hard to meet through meet one method, yes my inexperience in international dating has led to a few miss-fires but I have learn't from that

I see no evidence of  either of your assertions in the above sentence based on your own posts.....

Below, you are simply theorising, again ...whilst trying to be some sort of devil's advocate? !....

That is a risk I am willing to take, I'm not looking for a perfect match I'm just looking for someone I can co-exist with and have a fulfilling relationship. Sure many people Skype first but why accept the default way as the only way. I have wasted much time in the past getting to know girls for it to not work out - that skype & messaging time is then wasted. It's not to say I didn't take some joy out of conversing with them but ultimately its wasted time. If I were to start messaging and Skyping girls now for example I would be starting down the same path and once on the railroad tracks as the say.... I would most probably end up at the same destination of random outcomes on meet with girl, no I just don't fancy doing that again.

Your time wasn't wasted...you just haven't  taken on board your mistakes...

We all make mistakes and I have made some howlers..the trick is to learn to listen to good advice ..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 21, 2017, 09:29:35 AM
You confused my point that the likes of Skype can be a great pre meeting in reality tool with the trust built up in a monogamous relationship.. ((

Remind us, which of us is 'theorising' while the other lives the dream ? ;)

Your time wasn't wasted...you just haven't  taken on board your mistakes...

I disagree, from what I have seen whatever you gain with Skype Pre meeting comes with the cost off some negatives, mostly though that you end up putting all your eggs in one basket, you get stuck on the one girl (ok some may skype with several but they must have loads of time on their hands). You've then set yourself on the narrow railroad track towards meeting that one girl all because you wanted to Skype beforehand and see what she is like. I would prefer having had that experience to hold off on finding what she is like to meeting in person, only message her when in or imminently near time of being in country and be able to meet many. That way I can find out what many girls are like. I usually have an idea off what they are like from their profile and am happy to find out the rest on meeting as long as I take into account possible no-shows, don't get on, dates falling through, etc. and can bring up more women with plenty of time on hand to do so.

I've taken on board my previous mistakes and advice on this board and am moving forward. I'm not going out there until the new year, probably March/April time as its bloody cold out there now :o But I'm confident that when I do I will have a good result :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 21, 2017, 01:21:07 PM
I disagree, from what I have seen whatever you gain with Skype Pre meeting comes with the cost off some negatives, mostly though that you end up putting all your eggs in one basket, you get stuck on the one girl (ok some may skype with several but they must have loads of time on their hands).

 :deadhorse:

Your horse is 'dead' because when lead to water  - it wouldn't drink - Like it's owner - it will never learn ((

You can 'disagree' all you like - I think you have more chance of winning the jack-pot at lotto ... 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on November 21, 2017, 08:52:28 PM
Trench you are overthinking it with Skype.  Better to talk to them first to build rapport.  Sure I've met girls that turned out different in person from how they are on Skype, but building that connection counts.  You are far more likely to have a girl flake on you if all that you have done is exchange a few messages.

You don't seem to have much luck either way, maybe look in the mirror and see what you need to work on to be attractive to a woman first.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on November 26, 2017, 04:40:05 PM
Utter twaddle, again .... Look - I CHOSE to find a FSU partner - having lived in Cyprus, learnt the lingo to a degree and customs .... There is no shortage of good UK divorcees ...

 :ROFL:

Are you for real ? .... Look, SC is nearly 50 and gets chatted up by young studs half her age - who are FAR more handsome, fit and even might have more money ...   She stays on in Thailand when I'm working and 'gets offers' ...  She knows my ex-wife now lives 5 miles away - when I'm in the UK ...    I get more 'annoyed' by the stares she gets from other FSU women ...


OMG... do you REALLY believe getting pregant and having kids means a wife won't leave her husband ?

Do you think not speaking good English has been a barrier to guys getting into relationships and marrying ? 

Are you aware that to bring your wife to the UK she must be able to speak English to an acceptable level ?  ( Using the UK immigration route)

PLE-EASE, Trenchie...   STOP offering 'advice' when ALL it shows is your are in no position TO advise ...

TC, why on earth do you think this way?

Do you truly believe that to a normal woman in a good stable caring  relationship with a man she loves and admires, the  surrounding options are what  decides if she drops him?

Would you drop your wife, if some random hottie was available?

Relationships and marriages fail for a million reasons, but if you sweat the competition,  then it's a mental state of low self esteem, suppressed jealousy,  or any number if things that will certainly sour most any relationship over time.

Until you get past this thinking , you really will have a hard go of it. Women easily spot and sense things like that and it's  a huge turn off. One of the biggest.

I have no idea why my wife adores me,  but she does.
I never worry about other men,ever,  there is always someone more charming ,more handsome, more wealthy,  smarter, etc
If our relationship and marriage isn't a strong enough bond, that the mere existence of someone who *might* be a better match breaks it,then it wasn't much to begin with.

You really really need  to get past that thinking and mentality. It's extremely detrimental to any relationship.

I have never dated an insecure or overly jealous woman for that very reason. Its one of the worst traits to be involved with, and I don't need that in my life.
Most women, regardless nationality , feel the same way.





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on November 26, 2017, 06:52:08 PM
I disagree, from what I have seen whatever you gain with Skype
Pre meeting comes with the cost off some negatives, mostly though
that you end up putting all your eggs in one basket,

NOTE: I am using the word Skype generically instead of messenger or
webcam chat etc. 

If you plan on meeting more than one girl then I agree don't Skype at
all until after you meet. All you want is an introduction letter, answer
a couple questions and get a meeting.

If you are going to meet one girl then Skype (or other messenger)
is a great tool, it's a force multiplier. You can read a girls eyes when
you are talking to her. If she seems bored then you are chasing the
wrong girl. You want an interested girl. You could never determine
this exchanging letters.

A girl can say anything in a letter true or false. Most girls aren't
very good saying false things in another language, it will usually
show on their face. 80% of communication is nonverbal. Think about
that for a minute. What they say is less important than how they say
it. Why would anyone throw away 80% of communication out the
window?

I think, I know the answer. If you aren't using it, it's because you don't
have the confidence in your ability to banter, make small talk etc*. It's
a learned trait. You can spend 5 minutes crafting a sentence to answer
a question, but you pretty much have to do it on the spot during a
messenger type call.

*Bantering 101: How to talk to pretty girls without puking on your shoes. 
1. Always have a small 30-60 second conversation figured out ahead
of time. Example: I saw your profile, liked your smile and thought I better
get hold of this girl before everybody else does. Yada, yada.

2. Always have some prepared questions. Do you want kids, what
things do you like to do in your spare time? How do I know you won't
try to make me eat holodetz? blah, blah, blah 

3. Limit the conversation to so many minutes. Decide if you want to see
this girl on Skype again or not.

4. If you want to see her again, tell her you have to go but that you want
to see her again and nail down a time and date. Get her phone number if
something comes up. Send her an SMS telling her you liked her
voice/accent/eyes/cute personality/bubbly laugh etc (don't say tits on the
first call even if they are truly spectacular)

5. If you run into a brain fart or can't think of something to say then turn it
around immediately. Say something like "You are so pretty, that I totally forgot
what I was going to say." "You make me feel like a schoolboy again" How is it
possible that you aren't married?!? are all the men in your city blind? etc.

You can also unplug the mike or the camera. Then fumble around hooking it
back up. Then ask what were we talking about? Oh yes, I remember we were
talking about how loud you are during sex and how thick the walls need to be.

Those will get you a shy smile 95% of the time and you've turned it completely
around from a negative to a positive.

80% of the girls I Skyped with, I did only once. I decided it wasn't worth my
time to continue. I was only interested in an exceptional girl, so all the so-so
girls got sent to find their love interest elsewhere. One mans coal is another
mans diamond. Lather, rinse and repeat. Don't hang on to a girl just because
she is hot!!! Never compromise on character.

You will get better and better at this with practice.

Udachi!

Bill
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boomstick77 on November 27, 2017, 09:29:08 AM
Jumper I would say your wrong and many psychologists are a sham with their theories on when they say that jealousy and possessiveness Is destructive. That's where most people are incorrect about jealousy and possessiveness when it comes to a wife or a girlfriend. I think it's wonderful when girls get that way because it means you've displayed high level value and you set the standard that no man can match you. All other men cease to exist. They don't want to share you with anyone and who could blame them. Your everything they want in a man. They don't want any other girl even look at you.  I have seen many women that my friends have dated and that their woman supposedly trusts them if they go to the bar or show up late getting home, etc. It's because it's simple. She just doesn't love you as much as you think or she would want to do everything with you instead. Sure everyone needs their space but most women are like pack animals. They will go and follow wherever the leader takes them. they want to be with them always. One of the many examples with my wife was going to get her nails done and I just wanted to get wasted at a pub while waiting for her. So when she was getting up to go. She gave me my passport and her extra cellphone just to stay in touch. As soon as she started walking next door to the nail salon. The waitress walks instantly up to my table and says.. "so it didn't work out"... I was like huh? She seen my passport and said...Oh your from Canada and sat down at my table and started small talk. My wife turned around to wave at me and instantly seen what was transpiring and I laughed but her eyes turned almost satanic and she started coming back. As soon as she got to the table she said hello and that waitress made her exit quick and my wife said...I can't leave you for 2 minutes without some girl hitting on you. Then the next day she had an appointment for her hair because they have some crazy month or star days superstition just for haircuts... so I just said I'll bring my Nintendo switch to a pub and enjoy some booze and gaming. She then asked me how about I stay at the apartment because I have internet, we can go buy you beers and bring them here and if you go to a pub they might try and rip you off because your a Foreign. I just said that I won't pay the bill till you get done. When I got to the pub and we both sat down she said are you sure your not going to meet anyone If they flirt with you. I laughed and said never.  But that's fantastic as it displays massive levels of value because other women have taking notice too so they want in on the action. That's why women who have friends usually don't realize that their friends is their worst enemy. If they see that a man is good to their friend that they are dating and they are always having fun. Their friend the majority of the time try and seduce him covertly. I've experienced it many times in the past. The worst part is..your girl will say..ohh they are just flirty like that. I think if I wasn't such a good guy I would be able to take advantage of that situation and show you that they aren't flirting because they are just that way...they are trying to steal me away from you. But That's why the majority of Ukrainian and Russian women have no friends. They know even their own best friend would steal their man if they had a chance. Hell even their single mother would try to steal their daughters man if they had the chance. Russian and Ukrainian women are incredibly jealous and possessive girls but don't mistake it for insecurity. It means they want you all to themselves. What's so bad about that. I think women that are jealous and possessive tend to be the best types of girls to be with. It takes a whole 2 minutes to reassure them that you are into them always. Plus they do everything and I mean everything for you. Plus when they sexy and hot. Well...it's just the best.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on November 27, 2017, 09:40:55 AM
I think women that are jealous and possessive tend to be the best types of girls to be with.



There are people like yourself, men and women, that enjoy being with a jealous and possessive partner but Jumper is also correct that that for many, it can be destructive to the relationship.


I got men putting flowers and candy on my wife's car. Lots of guys want to introduce themselves to her. Some guys start a conversation saying she looks like Taylor Swift or ask if she does modelling. A cop got her license plate number and called her up. Surely he seen my name on the car title too but still made the call. I know a lot of guys look at my wife's ass. Not once did I feel like kicking ass to get guys to back off or getting the cop fired. I am not jealous or possessive or afraid my wife will leave me. She wouldn't like it if I were jealous and possessive. All women in my life are free to come and go as they please. There's always another woman out there for me but whoever is in my life, I take good care of them and I suspect that is why I'm an attractive man to women. By taking care of them, I don't mean just by financial means.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on November 27, 2017, 01:50:25 PM
Jumper I would say your wrong and many psychologists are a sham with their theories on when they say that jealousy and possessiveness Is destructive. That's where most people are incorrect about jealousy and possessiveness when it comes to a wife or a girlfriend. I think it's wonderful when girls get that way because it means you've displayed high level value and you set the standard that no man can match you. All other men cease to exist. They don't want to share you with anyone and who could blame them. Your everything they want in a man. They don't want any other girl even look at you.  I have seen many women that my friends have dated and that their woman supposedly trusts them if they go to the bar or show up late getting home, etc. It's because it's simple. She just doesn't love you as much as you think or she would want to do everything with you instead. Sure everyone needs their space but most women are like pack animals. They will go and follow wherever the leader takes them. they want to be with them always. One of the many examples with my wife was going to get her nails done and I just wanted to get wasted at a pub while waiting for her. So when she was getting up to go. She gave me my passport and her extra cellphone just to stay in touch. As soon as she started walking next door to the nail salon. The waitress walks instantly up to my table and says.. "so it didn't work out"... I was like huh? She seen my passport and said...Oh your from Canada and sat down at my table and started small talk. My wife turned around to wave at me and instantly seen what was transpiring and I laughed but her eyes turned almost satanic and she started coming back. As soon as she got to the table she said hello and that waitress made her exit quick and my wife said...I can't leave you for 2 minutes without some girl hitting on you. Then the next day she had an appointment for her hair because they have some crazy month or star days superstition just for haircuts... so I just said I'll bring my Nintendo switch to a pub and enjoy some booze and gaming. She then asked me how about I stay at the apartment because I have internet, we can go buy you beers and bring them here and if you go to a pub they might try and rip you off because your a Foreign. I just said that I won't pay the bill till you get done. When I got to the pub and we both sat down she said are you sure your not going to meet anyone If they flirt with you. I laughed and said never.  But that's fantastic as it displays massive levels of value because other women have taking notice too so they want in on the action. That's why women who have friends usually don't realize that their friends is their worst enemy. If they see that a man is good to their friend that they are dating and they are always having fun. Their friend the majority of the time try and seduce him covertly. I've experienced it many times in the past. The worst part is..your girl will say..ohh they are just flirty like that. I think if I wasn't such a good guy I would be able to take advantage of that situation and show you that they aren't flirting because they are just that way...they are trying to steal me away from you. But That's why the majority of Ukrainian and Russian women have no friends. They know even their own best friend would steal their man if they had a chance. Hell even their single mother would try to steal their daughters man if they had the chance. Russian and Ukrainian women are incredibly jealous and possessive girls but don't mistake it for insecurity. It means they want you all to themselves. What's so bad about that. I think women that are jealous and possessive tend to be the best types of girls to be with. It takes a whole 2 minutes to reassure them that you are into them always. Plus they do everything and I mean everything for you. Plus when they sexy and hot. Well...it's just the best.


Feeding on someone's emotions, or playing them, is a sign of obscurity.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on November 27, 2017, 03:23:10 PM
That's where most people are incorrect about jealousy and possessiveness when it comes to a wife or a girlfriend. I think it's wonderful when girls get that way because it means you've displayed high level value and you set the standard that no man can match you. All other men cease to exist. They don't want to share you with anyone and who could blame them.

Not all other men---- but -- all other women !
Women going near "her" man -- are excluded.
Jealousy is not healthy  nor "possessiveness" --it shows insecurity.
As for most of your post --  you are right at home here with a lot of our other misfits.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2017, 05:44:27 PM

Jumper I would say your wrong and many psychologists are a sham with their theories on when they say that jealousy and possessiveness Is destructive. That's where most people are incorrect about jealousy and possessiveness when it comes to a wife or a girlfriend. I think it's wonderful when girls get that way because it means you've displayed high level value and you set the standard that no man can match you. All other men cease to exist. They don't want to share you with anyone and who could blame them. Your everything they want in a man. They don't want any other girl even look at you.  I have seen many women that my friends have dated and that their woman supposedly trusts them if they go to the bar or show up late getting home, etc. It's because it's simple. She just doesn't love you as much as you think or she would want to do everything with you instead. Sure everyone needs their space but most women are like pack animals. They will go and follow wherever the leader takes them. they want to be with them always.

One of the many examples with my wife was going to get her nails done and I just wanted to get wasted at a pub while waiting for her. So when she was getting up to go. She gave me my passport and her extra cellphone just to stay in touch. As soon as she started walking next door to the nail salon. The waitress walks instantly up to my table and says.. "so it didn't work out"... I was like huh? She seen my passport and said...Oh your from Canada and sat down at my table and started small talk. My wife turned around to wave at me and instantly seen what was transpiring and I laughed but her eyes turned almost satanic and she started coming back. As soon as she got to the table she said hello and that waitress made her exit quick and my wife said...I can't leave you for 2 minutes without some girl hitting on you. Then the next day she had an appointment for her hair because they have some crazy month or star days superstition just for haircuts... so I just said I'll bring my Nintendo switch to a pub and enjoy some booze and gaming. She then asked me how about I stay at the apartment because I have internet, we can go buy you beers and bring them here and if you go to a pub they might try and rip you off because your a Foreign. I just said that I won't pay the bill till you get done. When I got to the pub and we both sat down she said are you sure your not going to meet anyone If they flirt with you. I laughed and said never.  But that's fantastic as it displays massive levels of value because other women have taking notice too so they want in on the action.

That's why women who have friends usually don't realize that their friends is their worst enemy. If they see that a man is good to their friend that they are dating and they are always having fun. Their friend the majority of the time try and seduce him covertly. I've experienced it many times in the past. The worst part is..your girl will say..ohh they are just flirty like that. I think if I wasn't such a good guy I would be able to take advantage of that situation and show you that they aren't flirting because they are just that way...they are trying to steal me away from you. But That's why the majority of Ukrainian and Russian women have no friends. They know even their own best friend would steal their man if they had a chance. Hell even their single mother would try to steal their daughters man if they had the chance. Russian and Ukrainian women are incredibly jealous and possessive girls but don't mistake it for insecurity. It means they want you all to themselves. What's so bad about that. I think women that are jealous and possessive tend to be the best types of girls to be with. It takes a whole 2 minutes to reassure them that you are into them always. Plus they do everything and I mean everything for you. Plus when they sexy and hot. Well...it's just the best.

For the love of god, write in short paragraphs, split it up so it makes what you've written actually manageable to read, like I have done here for you ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2017, 06:14:06 PM

There are people like yourself, men and women, that enjoy being with a jealous and possessive partner but Jumper is also correct that that for many, it can be destructive to the relationship.


I got men putting flowers and candy on my wife's car. Lots of guys want to introduce themselves to her. Some guys start a conversation saying she looks like Taylor Swift or ask if she does modelling. A cop got her license plate number and called her up. Surely he seen my name on the car title too but still made the call. I know a lot of guys look at my wife's ass. Not once did I feel like kicking ass to get guys to back off or getting the cop fired. I am not jealous or possessive or afraid my wife will leave me. She wouldn't like it if I were jealous and possessive. All women in my life are free to come and go as they please. There's always another woman out there for me but whoever is in my life, I take good care of them and I suspect that is why I'm an attractive man to women. By taking care of them, I don't mean just by financial means.

I get the impression you're quite a canny operator BillyB and your wife probably knows while she could cross you, you would almost certainly get the upper hand. Besides, if a woman has kids then as we know most FSW are very loyal to their children and if you're providing/doing a decent job as father then she is unlikely to leave, job done ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on November 27, 2017, 06:34:55 PM
Quote
if a woman has kids then as we know most FSW are very loyal to their children and if you're providing/doing a decent job as father then she is unlikely to leave


I can think of a dozen examples off the top of my head that disprove your theory.  Including Billy's first Ukrainian wife.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2017, 06:45:41 PM
NOTE: I am using the word Skype generically instead of messenger or
webcam chat etc. 

If you plan on meeting more than one girl then I agree don't Skype at
all until after you meet. All you want is an introduction letter, answer
a couple questions and get a meeting.


If you are going to meet one girl then Skype (or other messenger)
is a great tool, it's a force multiplier. You can read a girls eyes when
you are talking to her. If she seems bored then you are chasing the
wrong girl. You want an interested girl. You could never determine
this exchanging letters.

A girl can say anything in a letter true or false. Most girls aren't
very good saying false things in another language, it will usually
show on their face. 80% of communication is nonverbal. Think about
that for a minute. What they say is less important than how they say
it. Why would anyone throw away 80% of communication out the
window?

I think, I know the answer. If you aren't using it, it's because you don't
have the confidence in your ability to banter, make small talk etc*. It's
a learned trait. You can spend 5 minutes crafting a sentence to answer
a question, but you pretty much have to do it on the spot during a
messenger type call.

*Bantering 101: How to talk to pretty girls without puking on your shoes. 
1. Always have a small 30-60 second conversation figured out ahead
of time. Example: I saw your profile, liked your smile and thought I better
get hold of this girl before everybody else does. Yada, yada.

2. Always have some prepared questions. Do you want kids, what
things do you like to do in your spare time? How do I know you won't
try to make me eat holodetz? blah, blah, blah 

3. Limit the conversation to so many minutes. Decide if you want to see
this girl on Skype again or not.

4. If you want to see her again, tell her you have to go but that you want
to see her again and nail down a time and date. Get her phone number if
something comes up. Send her an SMS telling her you liked her
voice/accent/eyes/cute personality/bubbly laugh etc (don't say tits on the
first call even if they are truly spectacular)

5. If you run into a brain fart or can't think of something to say then turn it
around immediately. Say something like "You are so pretty, that I totally forgot
what I was going to say." "You make me feel like a schoolboy again" How is it
possible that you aren't married?!? are all the men in your city blind? etc.

You can also unplug the mike or the camera. Then fumble around hooking it
back up. Then ask what were we talking about? Oh yes, I remember we were
talking about how loud you are during sex and how thick the walls need to be.

Those will get you a shy smile 95% of the time and you've turned it completely
around from a negative to a positive.

80% of the girls I Skyped with, I did only once. I decided it wasn't worth my
time to continue. I was only interested in an exceptional girl, so all the so-so
girls got sent to find their love interest elsewhere. One mans coal is another
mans diamond. Lather, rinse and repeat. Don't hang on to a girl just because
she is hot!!! Never compromise on character.

You will get better and better at this with practice.

Udachi!

Bill

Well you're right Bill, I'm glad you agree that not Skyping is best when visiting many which is what I intend to do. This made sense to me also from my experience - I just don't have loads off free time to constantly Skype with woman. Plus I would prefer to meet in person. The last girl I was picking up a fair bit of non-verbal communication on Skype that she was attracted to me, whether it was genuine its perhaps harder to tell on Skype. Even during meeting I am not sure whether her interest was sincere or there to drive towards purpose of immigration visa, etc. Had I the experience I gained (& stuff learned from you guys on here ;) ) from that and the situation cropped up again I know how to handle it better.

Skype can be a pain, the reception is rarely as good in real life, the girl I was with had poor reception so even non-verbal communication though there well is kind of better to see in person I feel. Normally, with Skype I had a folded A4 sheet of paper with a load of short questions in block capitals to ask. I found with the first girl who had near perfect English this was  more of a fall back as we got chatting away and one topic lead onto another and time passed with ease - so she was easy to get on with but no chemistry, huh. The last girl her English was not that good - it improved by the end of the second (holiday) meet but on Skype I had to rely on the question sheet a lot. Some questions I even had to jump as she could not really understand them despite being reasonably straight forward. Responses tended to be fairly short as well. She also did not ask a lot of questions, again because of her poor English I believe. This mean't I often whipped through the question sheet quite fast and it only just about made do for the 15min to half hour we were on Skype. After that if she did not need to finish I often finished with some excuse as I had run out of stuff to say. She seemed to like Skyping with me though and I can see why some guys only go for good speaking English FSW but it kinds of cuts out girls where there can be the all important chemistry so I accept the negatives in favour of the positives.

I also spoke to another girl on Skype nearly 2 years back now - there was no chemistry and her English was not good either, it was an awkward session only interrupted by her cat intruding which was a thankful godsend since it was the only part of the session where I saw any emotion. Well I chose not to Skype with her again. I think you're right, banter I could do with improving so its not just an interview session, with poor level English FSW though much of this would be lost cause, short questions they may get anything else as I found will fall by unnoticed only to be met with a confused look.

Yeah to be sure I think I would really rather give meeting many a go and get a better first impression without the disembodied feeling I get on Skype. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2017, 06:46:43 PM

I can think of a dozen examples off the top of my head that disprove your theory.  Including Billy's first Ukrainian wife.

He had a first wife!? What happened there?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on November 27, 2017, 07:42:45 PM
He had a first wife!? What happened there?

He probably couldn't find the model wife in the SeaPigeon land he lives in. ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on November 27, 2017, 10:02:56 PM
Quote from: boomstick
I think women that are jealous and possessive tend to be the best types of girls to be with. It takes a whole 2 minutes to reassure them that you are into them always. Plus they do everything and I mean everything for you. Plus when they sexy and hot. Well...it's just the best.


Plenty of completely secure women will do everything for a man they love.
That's not some trait only jealous possesive  women have.

If it only takes 2 minutes to reassure some jealous possessive women,that all is fine in the relationship,  she isn't nearly as jealous or possesive as I was referring too.
Yes those types can tend to be more  wild in bed,  but again they have no monopoly on that, and the rest of their drama isn't worth dealing with.

A hint of jealousy is likely normal, that's not what I was talking about.

As far as spending time together, or apart, that's never been an issue with anyone I've been with.
It would be a problem  with a truly jealous person.

For the record I love spending time with my wife and children, I have a lot of hobbies and interests,  but prefer to spend as much time with the family as I can. Clubs and such bored me to death in my twenties,I sure don't find them of any interest now, everyone has their priorities, mine are with my wife and kids.


TC has insecure traits seeming  a tad controlling,  , yet fears a hot babe will leave him for the first handsome guy with a wad of cash.
 .
That kind of controlling, insecure behaviour and thinking  is a self fullfilling prophesy .
It drives people away.

Then he will say, to himself, see? That's how women are.
In a circle of behaviour that causes a given outcome,  while confirming his preconceived notions , and would be hard to break out of.

I'm not saying he is doomed to that, it's just an easy thing to fall into, and I hope mentioning it makes him step back to evaluate if that might be something that occurs in his life.


 TC's self admitted  insecurities would  turn off most of the women i know.I'm trying to help him see that confidence is the key.
 
He has gotten a lot of advice on how to improve it, so I hope he tries it out.
Posting things like he did above, shows he still sweats some muscled local guy easily  swiping some woman he has a relationship with and brings to the UK.
That's not the mentality he needs to go into any relationship with,  much less a cross cultural, long distance one.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on November 28, 2017, 08:12:58 AM


Skype can be a pain,

Yeah to be sure I think I would really rather give meeting many a go and get a better first impression without the disembodied feeling I get on Skype.

Trench, Skype isn't a means to interview girls..lol...i can imagine you with your piece of paper running through all the questions you have. is this how you talk to women in general?  And "chemistry" is not based via a video chat....you need to meet them in person to determine that.  also, it takes more than 1 conversation. you don't make friends at home like that, it usually takes time.

what happened to your self imposed sabbatical here?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on November 28, 2017, 08:30:11 AM
You have very interesting views Trench though we do disagree on certain issues especially parts of our dating methodology. :D I thought I'll add my own questions and perspectives on them.

I've heard from about the age of 20 a person's personality is set for life, but no doubt a lot of it is earlier anyway possibly person dependent also.

Hmm, perhaps this happens faster for FSU folks. IMO from observations, more like 30 for the majority of people, at least in the UK. After 30, your views are usually more or less set for life. Of course it doesn't apply to those "chameleons" who are keen life-long adapters/learners with open minds though it gets harder with age. You'll be surprised how plastic the human brain can be.

Eg. I used to think three course meals etc were silly old aristocratic relics of the past, but now after a few years of fine dining experience with my professors and other academic staff, my own self would think otherwise today.

I've heard this also, interesting you also concur, in the west as you no doubt now know many women leave it to into their thirties.

This exactly!  :clapping: Is what partly persuaded me to venture far and away into the FSU to find future wife! ;) Hoping to get married and settled by 28 at the very latest. Then again, you never know what the future holds :P

Personally I would prefer good English but ahead of that I would want to see natural chemistry through quick successive eye movement and vibe of excitement as my main priority. If we are into each other then we can work through other issues as long as she is willing.

IMO I still think chemistry is over-rated really. Case in point: Who is to say you won't "grow to love her" like my grandpa's case?
http://www.livescience.com/56269-animal-sex-giant-pandas.html
If pandas can grow to adore each other through the mating process in captivity enough to facilitate reproduction, I very much doubt humans as fellow mammals are much different given a lack of choice.  :popcorn:

In part I agree Mobe, it's a long way to go to experience a lottery but that is what you get with talking beforehand in Skype - you cannot easily tell if there is attraction over Skype as you can in real life, it is essentially what it is, a series of moving picture frames, i.e frame rate. So it is like looking at  a girls photo and trying to tell if there would be natural chemistry - I tried this with the second girl I went to meet and it did not go well as you know.

I personally don't see myself going out to visit one again even with back ups. I would rather meet many since even skyping beforehand you are still essentially getting a blind date. The first girl I got on like a house on fire over Skype and we got on well during our dates but she was closed off and uninterested in any physical contact, the natural chemistry just was not there. It's kind of pointless spending loaf's of time on messaging and Skype to keep hitting this problem, arriving and wanting to make it work with a girl that doesn't want it. It's not good for her or me.

Again, I just think the whole chemistry thing is over-rated imo. I think no one is saying Skype is the be all and end all and skype like all tools for communication is just a tool and its effectiveness really depends on how it's used.

Here, I would beg to differ as I have found girls' personalities that I have met in person to be more or less what I have expected from prior skype sessions though these were all girls in the uk with no significant cultural differences with the exception of one Muscovite FSU with a good command of english. If I were to guess, I think perhaps part of the potential problem lies somewhere in the communication approach used on Skype before the meet.

It's probably fair to say there are many ways to go about this but I thought I'll share what I do with Skype. Sometimes I would video-call (Skype) her at a short moments notice on evenings so that she'll most likely be caught off guard then proceed to have a serious talk about life, philosophies, etc you name it. If she refuses to pick up these spontaneous calls more than 4-5 times, then I drop her and move on even if she is a 10/10. No exceptions. If she can't make time for me in the evening, I doubt she'll make time for me even if we get married. Then there are times where I'll sing a song for her  :rolleyes: all of a sudden during the session all the while keeping an eye on her subtle mannerisms (giggles? fidgeting? spacing out? staring at phone? etc etc) Anything to nudge her out of her comfort zone and see how she reacted and answered.

I'm curious as to how your Skype sessions usually take place Trench? I have no doubt there'll be much I can learn from the shared experience.  :popcorn:

There are up & downsides to girls that know English well and those that don't. A girl that speaks English well can more easily get a job in UK/US and if she is pretty and has good social skills may then be very exposed to guys that may be better looking, earn more & more exciting social life/socially skilled than you. Even if she is facing deportation if she leaves you all she needs is an email address or mobile number of the guy and he can happily sort out marriage of himself to her knowing you have done all the donkey work unrewarded of finding her for him.

You see an apparent 'advantage' can quickly work out to be very detrimental.

Well eventually she's going to become "British" innit? Could be within months, years or decades. Doesn't matter the timeframe. Even if she gets pregnant years down the road, it's still possible she can still divorce then, get half and leave child custody to you? :-\

Eddie Murphy seems to have a point here among the slur of "bad words"  :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts4sEBb2K3s

Ultimately, I think we can do all the due diligence and checks we want in order to minimize the chances of undesired results but there's always a chance things might turn out different. Maybe she changed her mind and decides to not have kids? Maybe she suddenly decided to not leave the FSU? Or perhaps living in the UK turns her into a materialistic woman?  :-\ Anything's possible but it doesn't mean there's a high probability that it will definitely happen. I like adventure!  :P and this quote from fellow poster comes up again "Paranoia will Destroya"  :devil:  >:(

 :D On a side note, Trench if you're still seriously planning a trip to Moscow during springtime, I suggest you try to book tickets now and tackle the visa later.  :D I just got return flights on KLM from London to Moscow for £112 GBP , in-flight meals and checked baggage inclusive woohoo! 8) Not sharing the news with my Muscovite lass yet. RWD came first :P
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on November 28, 2017, 11:47:53 AM


I've heard from about the age of 20 a person's personality is set for life, but no doubt a lot of it is earlier anyway possibly person dependent also.

Better re-check on this.  You are off by 15 years or so.

Many studies have indicated personality is set by age 5-6.
Very unfair, I think; but it's true.

Ideas and beliefs may change, but apparently not personality.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 28, 2017, 12:23:29 PM
Trench, Skype isn't a means to interview girls..lol...i can imagine you with your piece of paper running through all the questions you have. is this how you talk to women in general?  And "chemistry" is not based via a video chat....you need to meet them in person to determine that.  also, it takes more than 1 conversation. you don't make friends at home like that, it usually takes time.

what happened to your self imposed sabbatical here?

Ah, my self imposed sabbatical, that got a reprieve when I realised I'm still too far away from my planned trip to FSU next year. Essentially I did not want to get drawn off track again by messaging women and despite feeling the pain off not being able to get out there for a while knew I needed to be disciplined in this search to improve my chances off success. I am preparing now though for my trip out there next year. I know "chemistry" is not based via a video chat, that I need to meet them in person. that is entirely the point I am trying to make.

I know also it takes more than one conversation, what I am saying is that while I do not wish to 'interview' the girl, if she has poor English then there is no other way. Otherwise there is just awkward silence & glances with you looking at each other. The girl often expects the guy to carry the conversation in these instances, I can't rattle on relentlessly so questions are the only thing left to avoid a rather embarrassing period. How have you got on with Skyping with girls Sting?

The girl I never Skyped for a second time well, I don't think it was just her English that was poor but also her social skills. I think she lacked the ability to partake in conversation easily. She stated in her profile she liked to collect perfumes, when I asked her which ones she seemed to have little to say on the subject, just a king of 'perfumes in general' response. Other questions gave equally little material to work with and it was only the appearance of the cat where it at all picked up. Generally though she was a no go, probably why she was still single in her mid thirties.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 28, 2017, 12:50:05 PM
You have very interesting views Trench though we do disagree on certain issues especially parts of our dating methodology. :D I thought I'll add my own questions and perspectives on them.

Hmm, perhaps this happens faster for FSU folks. IMO from observations, more like 30 for the majority of people, at least in the UK. After 30, your views are usually more or less set for life. Of course it doesn't apply to those "chameleons" who are keen life-long adapters/learners with open minds though it gets harder with age. You'll be surprised how plastic the human brain can be.

Eg. I used to think three course meals etc were silly old aristocratic relics of the past, but now after a few years of fine dining experience with my professors and other academic staff, my own self would think otherwise today.

This exactly!  :clapping: Is what partly persuaded me to venture far and away into the FSU to find future wife! ;) Hoping to get married and settled by 28 at the very latest. Then again, you never know what the future holds :P

IMO I still think chemistry is over-rated really. Case in point: Who is to say you won't "grow to love her" like my grandpa's case?
http://www.livescience.com/56269-animal-sex-giant-pandas.html
If pandas can grow to adore each other through the mating process in captivity enough to facilitate reproduction, I very much doubt humans as fellow mammals are much different given a lack of choice.  :popcorn:

Again, I just think the whole chemistry thing is over-rated imo. I think no one is saying Skype is the be all and end all and skype like all tools for communication is just a tool and its effectiveness really depends on how it's used.

Here, I would beg to differ as I have found girls' personalities that I have met in person to be more or less what I have expected from prior skype sessions though these were all girls in the uk with no significant cultural differences with the exception of one Muscovite FSU with a good command of english. If I were to guess, I think perhaps part of the potential problem lies somewhere in the communication approach used on Skype before the meet.

It's probably fair to say there are many ways to go about this but I thought I'll share what I do with Skype. Sometimes I would video-call (Skype) her at a short moments notice on evenings so that she'll most likely be caught off guard then proceed to have a serious talk about life, philosophies, etc you name it. If she refuses to pick up these spontaneous calls more than 4-5 times, then I drop her and move on even if she is a 10/10. No exceptions. If she can't make time for me in the evening, I doubt she'll make time for me even if we get married. Then there are times where I'll sing a song for her  :rolleyes: all of a sudden during the session all the while keeping an eye on her subtle mannerisms (giggles? fidgeting? spacing out? staring at phone? etc etc) Anything to nudge her out of her comfort zone and see how she reacted and answered.

I'm curious as to how your Skype sessions usually take place Trench? I have no doubt there'll be much I can learn from the shared experience.  :popcorn:

Well eventually she's going to become "British" innit? Could be within months, years or decades. Doesn't matter the timeframe. Even if she gets pregnant years down the road, it's still possible she can still divorce then, get half and leave child custody to you? :-\

Eddie Murphy seems to have a point here among the slur of "bad words"  :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts4sEBb2K3s

Ultimately, I think we can do all the due diligence and checks we want in order to minimize the chances of undesired results but there's always a chance things might turn out different. Maybe she changed her mind and decides to not have kids? Maybe she suddenly decided to not leave the FSU? Or perhaps living in the UK turns her into a materialistic woman?  :-\ Anything's possible but it doesn't mean there's a high probability that it will definitely happen. I like adventure!  :P and this quote from fellow poster comes up again "Paranoia will Destroya"  :devil:  >:(

 :D On a side note, Trench if you're still seriously planning a trip to Moscow during springtime, I suggest you try to book tickets now and tackle the visa later.  :D I just got return flights on KLM from London to Moscow for £112 GBP , in-flight meals and checked baggage inclusive woohoo! 8) Not sharing the news with my Muscovite lass yet. RWD came first :P

That's a good deal with KLM Kyn, I've heard good things of KLM but never flown with them. I'm guessing there is a transfer which was why I went with Aeroflot to Moscow last year as it was direct, meals included.

I think if you're not too fussed with chemistry while it could work out you are increasing the dangers of having problems with the girls you meet. Sure you can build up rapport if you are good at this, and its not a bad thing to do, something I need to work on, but if a girl is not into I tend to get the impression these are the times when FSW start to act badly, the longer you are with them the more chance of this I think.

Your method of Skype is interesting and maybe worth a try, method in the madness as they say, lol. I can see why you would ditch her if she did not pick up 4 out of 5 times. For some girls they may find it inconvenient, I would if a girl did it to me. You would have to drop everything, watching TV, eating, tiredness and are kind of on the hop. That you are willing to drop a 10 I think shows that you have a good grasp on this search. I'm not sure if I would be knocking out girls who find it inconvenient or girls where there is not genuine interest. Again though without meeting prior would the chemistry be there on meeting? Is there a reason to show much interest prior to meeting? I'm not saying your wrong, I may indeed try it sometime to gauge the results but perhaps more after meeting.

Usually I used to set a time to Skype with girls, some are just not on Skype all day long or much at all, not all have smart phones or in a coverage area and some just have 'away' or 'offline' in which case they may not be there, hear it, etc. Scheduling meetings is a pain though and apparently some girl in FSU feel the same way likening it to awaiting for a dental appointment lol. I'm no singer, I have no singing voice, I can talk to a girl ok but if her English is not good yes it can be a major impediment, one that can be worked through but obviously a girl with good English has its benefits when communicating. I said quite a while ago that I was after girls that spoke good English from major airport cities. This is the ideal in my opinion but I have come to realize that it could cut out too many girls, that I could be limiting my search down too narrowly and in doing so sacrificing girls where there is natural chemistry. To me natural chemistry is unbreakable. She will still fancy you even if she comes to hate you, this of course would not be a good place to be but I prefer to have this chemistry link as it gives me reassurance that I am essentially in a good place with the girl even when things are bad.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on November 28, 2017, 05:42:42 PM
How have you got on with Skyping with girls Sting?


I do fine with Skype. It's a much better indicator of how well you get along with someone than messaging. Some you know you won't talk to again, others I've had hour long conversations the first time.

What sites are you using?  Mamba, Elena's Models etc..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on November 28, 2017, 05:54:01 PM

 :D On a side note, Trench if you're still seriously planning a trip to Moscow during springtime, I suggest you try to book tickets now and tackle the visa later.  :D I just got return flights on KLM from London to Moscow for £112 GBP ,

Damn that's a cheap price!!  If he doesn't get approved for a visa though then it's a waste.  Always make sure you get the visa first!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 28, 2017, 07:34:24 PM
Damn that's a cheap price!!  If he doesn't get approved for a visa though then it's a waste.  Always make sure you get the visa first!

Highly unlikely - given his history !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 28, 2017, 07:38:11 PM
Generally though she was a no go, probably why she was still single in her mid thirties.

....or may be she was a career girl - who never found Mr Right - yet - and wasn't prepared to settle for just anybody ?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on November 29, 2017, 03:56:59 AM

The girl I never Skyped for a second time well, I don't think it was just her English that was poor but also her social skills. I think she lacked the ability to partake in conversation easily.


Trench, if you keep having these experiences sometimes you need to look in the mirror and see what's wrong.  I have talked to some girls who could barely speak English, I mean like absolute basic level.  We would have to use Google translate 90% of the time until my Russian got well enough to converse. 

One girl who had poor English I keep in regular contact even though she ended up marrying a Russian guy.  We became good enough friends that she invited me to stay at her place if I ever pass through her city.  This is even with her being married!  And I have never met her in real life before.

It may not be her social skills but rather a hesitancy to talk to you. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on November 29, 2017, 09:04:40 AM
Highly unlikely - given his history !

And I concur with msmob. I have no criminal history of any kind, come from a low-risk country, etc etc so I don't see why they would have any grounds to reject my visa application.

Also, if I go with a tourist visa application this time, it should be relatively easier compared to the tedious steps involved in getting a student visa last time around. Had to use DHL to fly in a single piece of university invitation letter (they don't accept electronically printed copies or photocopies) to fulfill part of the requirements :wallbash: It was barely even A5 sized!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on November 29, 2017, 10:53:59 AM
And I concur with msmob. I have no criminal history of any kind, come from a low-risk country, etc etc so I don't see why they would have any grounds to reject my visa application.

Also, if I go with a tourist visa application this time, it should be relatively easier compared to the tedious steps involved in getting a student visa last time around. Had to use DHL to fly in a single piece of university invitation letter (they don't accept electronically printed copies or photocopies) to fulfill part of the requirements :wallbash: It was barely even A5 sized!

They send e-invites now, makes the process much easier.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 29, 2017, 04:34:25 PM
Quote from: gaspar227 link=topic=22300.msg471989#msg471989 date=1511838525

Don't pay attention to Trenchcoat's advice. (sorry to pile on Trench)

[/quote

Wall how could you say that :o After all the hours of guidance I've given you on here :(
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 29, 2017, 05:26:41 PM
Hi Gaspar, I'll give you the advantage of my neandering advice since Wall has left me feeling so unappreciated :(

I wouldn't suggest any one site, free or pay monthly as superior. They tend to all have their advantages & disadvantages, some may be a bit better or less than another, but I would say use them all. The right girl or girls may be on any one of those sites.

DK watch all sites for scammers. EM does have a lot of fake profiles that usually end up being taken down eventually by EM bu by then the time wasted/damage dobe has happened.

I would say the one thing I wanted to find when setting out on this date is natural chemistry, it still is but I went around trying to find it in not the best way, it's been fun but means I'm still looking.

Finding natural chemistry can be random, some guys try to increase the odds by meeting loads of girls but essentially it's still random. I'm going to try the increasing odds and hops I am fortunate and get lucky. So I think a lot of this search is luck based.

If you've seen the documentary 'Love Me' Which features both AFA and EM you'll see two guys both get lucky on the AFA tour and some that didn't. It a good early insight into this game I found. Well one of the guys that found a girl on there had previously next to no dating joy what so ever, he looked a decent enough guy but likely lacking in socializing ability, did not seem super Intelligent, nor look amazingly wealthy, etc - but he's luck was in. He was playing the numbers game, he was lucky in not picking up a scammer looking for money or visa mule. He was lucky that the girl seemed into him, presumably right for each other. He knew that there were red flags to look out for without being paranoid. Yet even knowing what to look put for you can be unlucky at these sorts of events and get suckered in as a couple of the chaps did, one in particular.

Whats the difference between those that were successful and those that got played for a fool, a lot of it I believe was luck. Some guys are better at being aware, perceptive, better knowledge, better social skills but a lot is luck.

Having ability to recognise insincere women, scammers and avoid them is all very well but you still need luck for the right girl to come up, see each other, etc.

Sure, you're going to get a lot of bad people there on AFA tours, scammers, prostitutes, agency girls, insincere women, holiday whores, etc but you will also get some single women who if the right guy turns up will get with him - women past there prime in the FSU but potentially still decent looking.

Dating sites I have found also contain most of the above. Probably not as in great a quantity as tours perhaps but they are there. Advantage of dating sites you get time to screen them. In person you have to be on the ball to do this and/or screen them over time.

So I wouldn't rule out tours as shocking as it may be to some on here. Like you say they look fun and no doubt are, but don't expect them not to be packed with all the wrong sorts in terms of finding a long term relationship. Some women apparently also go just for a night out, they may even be married/have a partner, but you may just get lucky.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 29, 2017, 06:56:33 PM
Gaspar - welcome

I was about your age when I started looking and fitted a similar profile ...   To be clear, that was nearly 15 years ago ...   

Having travelled the FSU widely, I can't say Ukraine has the 'best looking' women -  it just has 20 million women who are nearer you than Russia or the 'Stans... don't limit your search by place ..I'm very much a make a trip about one lady guy - although visiting a few is also a route many guys on here took and are happily married.   



Hi Gaspar, I'll give you the advantage of my neandering advice since Wall has left me feeling so unappreciated :(

HEALTH WARNING


Sorry, this contributor likes to offer 'advise' whilst having failed miserably - making mistakes easily avoided - refuses to listen - and has the gall to post like he knows ... Sorry Trench - but you really must stop posting like you do (

He sees 'scammer' in every FSU lady..

I wouldn't suggest any one site, free or pay monthly as superior. They tend to all have their advantages & disadvantages, some may be a bit better or less than another, but I would say use them all. The right girl or girls may be on any one of those sites.

On which site did you find your partner from the FSU ?... You have one, right ?

I voted dmnotify - but fdating was up there....   My opinion is based on 3 plus year old info - other than advising FSU W friends of my partner

Here we go  :deadhorse:
DK watch all sites for scammers. EM does have a lot of fake profiles that usually end up being taken down eventually by EM bu by then the time wasted/damage dobe has happened.

Does it ? I'd prefer to say there might be some serial daters - whose photo hasn't changed much for years - on a lot of sites - bearing in mind what Trench calls a 'scammer' may very well be a perfectly normal FSU W expecting him to stump up for dates

I would say the one thing I wanted to find when setting out on this date is natural chemistry, it still is but I went around trying to find it in not the best way, it's been fun but means I'm still looking.


This is the guy who cannot spot a good 'un from a bad 'un ...There is a lot of luck involved - in that the lady you may be seeking chooses a 'good site' and has a profile up when you are both looking

Yet even knowing what to look put for you can be unlucky at these sorts of events and get suckered in as a couple of the chaps did, one in particular.

I wouldn't be seen near such 'events' .... 

Whats the difference between those that were successful and those that got played for a fool, a lot of it I believe was luck. Some guys are better at being aware, perceptive, better knowledge, better social skills but a lot is luck.

The difference is they quickly learn by mistakes - you make your own luck

Back to scammers ((

Having ability to recognise insincere women, scammers and avoid them is all very well but you still need luck for the right girl to come up, see each other, etc.

Once again, Trench - you are just wrong - 'luck' is reduced by checking all the sites - ladies can have more than one profile - that is not necessarily a 'red flag' - just increasing their chances

Sure, you're going to get a lot of bad people there on AFA tours, scammers, prostitutes, agency girls, insincere women, holiday whores, etc but you will also get some single women who if the right guy turns up will get with him - women past there prime in the FSU but potentially still decent looking.

Such TRIPE ...  You'll likely meet gals who have been promised free food and drinks and may be the chance to meet a rich westerner husband ...

Dating sites I have found also contain most of the above. Probably not as in great a quantity as tours perhaps but they are there. Advantage of dating sites you get time to screen them. In person you have to be on the ball to do this and/or screen them over time.

Which brings us back to your inability to tell the difference between a scammer and a keeper...  How many FSU ladies have you met in person ?

So I wouldn't rule out tours as shocking as it may be to some on here. Like you say they look fun and no doubt are, but don't expect them not to be packed with all the wrong sorts in terms of finding a long term relationship. Some women apparently also go just for a night out, they may even be married/have a partner, but you may just get lucky.

If all you want is you ego massaged..they are great ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 29, 2017, 08:58:32 PM
Gaspar - welcome

I was about your age when I started looking and fitted a similar profile ...   To be clear, that was nearly 15 years ago ...   

Having travelled the FSU widely, I can't say Ukraine has the 'best looking' women -  it just has 20 million women who are nearer you than Russia or the 'Stans... don't limit your search by place ..I'm very much a make a trip about one lady guy - although visiting a few is also a route many guys on here took and are happily married.   



HEALTH WARNING


Sorry, this contributor likes to offer 'advise' whilst having failed miserably - making mistakes easily avoided - refuses to listen - and has the gall to post like he knows ... Sorry Trench - but you really must stop posting like you do (

He sees 'scammer' in every FSU lady..

On which site did you find your partner from the FSU ?... You have one, right ?

I voted dmnotify - but fdating was up there....   My opinion is based on 3 plus year old info - other than advising FSU W friends of my partner

Here we go  :deadhorse:
Does it ? I'd prefer to say there might be some serial daters - whose photo hasn't changed much for years - on a lot of sites - bearing in mind what Trench calls a 'scammer' may very well be a perfectly normal FSU W expecting him to stump up for dates


This is the guy who cannot spot a good 'un from a bad 'un ...There is a lot of luck involved - in that the lady you may be seeking chooses a 'good site' and has a profile up when you are both looking

I wouldn't be seen near such 'events' .... 

The difference is they quickly learn by mistakes - you make your own luck

Back to scammers ((

Once again, Trench - you are just wrong - 'luck' is reduced by checking all the sites - ladies can have more than one profile - that is not necessarily a 'red flag' - just increasing their chances

Such TRIPE ...  You'll likely meet gals who have been promised free food and drinks and may be the chance to meet a rich westerner husband ...

Which brings us back to your inability to tell the difference between a scammer and a keeper...  How many FSU ladies have you met in person ?

If all you want is you ego massaged..they are great ...

Don't worry Mobe I'm not trying to take the 'expert cap' away from you, that can remain snuggly on your bonce ;D

The though of you Mobe an uptight Brit in the middle of a nightclub one of these tours stood there all stiff and starchy is enough to make me laugh :D

No I have not been ultimately successful at this yet but then I have only been going at it two years. Some of the successful guys were going at it around 9-10 years before they met with success and many of them tend to have a lot up top. Some guys have gone the entirely wrong route with ppl agencies and where most get scammed found a girl because she was naturally attracted to him. Some have taken married women away from their Russian man because she felt natural attraction to the guy. A lot of it is luck.

You no doubt deploy a strategy that works well for you in your circumstance but people are different and it is not always right for everybody. Not everyone is retired and has the time to sit in front of a PC 24/7 Skyping and messaging like they have nothing else to do on their hands.

Off course their is a lot off insincere goings on in these tours, there will be some girls just after a rich western guy, there will be women sucking up to bad ugly fat (mostly American ;) )guys there who would normally get no interest in their home country - little of this is of course sincere, they have not suddenly turned into Brad Pitt. Some girls of course are sincere, if your luck is in they will be attracted to you, or you will clue in that they are sincere.

After two years at his, being over there, meeting the girls and learning of here, I have gained a lot of knowledge on this, I'm not saying I wouldn't make another mistake but I think I could be successful at this next time. I'm just giving Gaspar my opinion on what I make of it, he is free to make up his own mind from what we say.

All I'm saying to Gaspar is that tours will have the numbers, many of those numbers will be insincere women of all varieties but there will be some sincere women there, there will be some women that just turn up to party for free not expecting to find anyone, but then meet the love of their life - luck. Some insincere or over the hill agency girls in their thirties may find the y are naturally attracted to someone and go off to spend a life together - they may or may not be a good thing long term but who knows for certain.

What I would say is that personally I think its better to date women first in FSU outside of a tour to understand them better and the situation there. While some can luck out with no previous experience on these tours going to one with experience and knowing a lot of the pitfalls that exist from experience I think would put a guy in good stead. What essentially you are getting at these tours is a lot of women thrown in there, many dubious, but apart from those out for deliberate scam there is no setting up guy with a girl with a lot of agency workings not knowing if your specifically a pawn set up with a girl who is just there to pull the wool over your eyes. I'm pretty sure now I could walk into a tour and avoid most of the scammers there and insincere women. They don't have a good reputation granted but if OP wants to go to one for a bit of fun so long as all the women there are not set ups then I say its not such a bad idea.

Gaspar, you ask about where to look? I would say Ukraine is a fun place to visit, it does have many beautiful women, however, it does have a problem in terms of scammers/insincere women - not all are but I would say it is almost a part of their culture. It can happen in Russia also, but I think it is perhaps less ridden with it.

On age group I would say at your age even in decent shape look more for women in their thirties, they are on the whole more readily wanting to settle down. I've been out with a girl in her twenties and despite her insistence that she was serious she really wasn't and I don't think she really knew it or realised it. Younger girls tend to want stuff bought for them and I was never intending to be a sugar daddy though it seemed that is what I had unwittingly fallen into.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on November 30, 2017, 04:43:10 AM
Some have taken married women away from their Russian man because she felt natural attraction to the guy. A lot of it is luck.

 :shock: Any cases that you knew of? This just sounds so wrong   ::):(. Links would be appreciated.

On age group I would say at your age even in decent shape look more for women in their thirties, they are on the whole more readily wanting to settle down. I've been out with a girl in her twenties and despite her insistence that she was serious she really wasn't and I don't think she really knew it or realised it. Younger girls tend to want stuff bought for them and I was never intending to be a sugar daddy though it seemed that is what I had unwittingly fallen into.

Is it? Really Trench? Then how do you explain why the majority of FSU lasses get married before the age of 30? Did they simply marry because it was fun? :-\ I trawl through vk whenever I have some free time and all I see are just millions of women seemingly happily married by 30, even for Ukraine  :-\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_age_at_first_marriage

Unless there's evidence to the contrary, I'm going to call bollocks on this one.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 30, 2017, 09:44:06 AM
Don't worry Mobe I'm not trying to take the 'expert cap' away from you, that can remain snuggly on your bonce ;D

Kindly remember that any recommendations from you are worrying, to say the least..)



The though of you Mobe an uptight Brit in the middle of a nightclub one of these tours stood there all stiff and starchy is enough to make me laugh :D

As already pointed out...I would not be daft enough to pay for such a dubious ego trip... At the OP's age I was defo not a night club wall flower..Possibly you are describing yourself ?!

No I have not been ultimately successful at this yet but then I have only been going at it two years. Some of the successful guys were going at it around 9-10 years before they met with success and many of them tend to have a lot up top. Some guys have gone the entirely wrong route with ppl agencies and where most get scammed found a girl because she was naturally attracted to him. Some have taken married women away from their Russian man because she felt natural attraction to the guy. A lot of it is luck.

You are rambling and making excuses for your failure to listen to sound advice...

Married women seeking a western husband ?


You no doubt deploy a strategy that works well for you in your circumstance but people are different and it is not always right for everybody. Not everyone is retired and has the time to sit in front of a PC 24/7 Skyping and messaging like they have nothing else to do on their hands.



Is that Trench for, 'I'm still advocating Skype , or similar, are not useful filters?'
 I already pointed out that I was the same age as the OP when I started off in this venture...  I was a small biz owner....and I am not retired...


Off course their is a lot off insincere goings on in these tours, there will be some girls just after a rich western guy, there will be women sucking up to bad ugly fat (mostly American ;) )guys there who would normally get no interest in their home country - little of this is of course sincere, they have not suddenly turned into Brad Pitt. Some girls of course are sincere, if your luck is in they will be attracted to you, or you will clue in that they are sincere.

After two years at his, being over there, meeting the girls and learning of here, I have gained a lot of knowledge on this, I'm not saying I wouldn't make another mistake but I think I could be successful at this next time. I'm just giving Gaspar my opinion on what I make of it, he is free to make up his own mind from what we say.

Once again, your 'opinions' are based on some seriously mistrusting, ignorant and misogynistic outlooks...He would be wise to ignore you.




As the OP will also realise your definition of over the hill is laughable.

There followed some more Trench 'scammer' BS...


If the OP wants to go to one for a bit of fun so long as all the women there are not set ups then I say its not such a bad idea.

A fool and his money are clearly easily parted ....based on your latest 'advice'. (

There now follows complete bollox ...


Gaspar, you ask about where to look? I would say Ukraine is a fun place to visit, it does have many beautiful women, however, it does have a problem in terms of scammers/insincere women - not all are but I would say it is almost a part of their culture. It can happen in Russia also, but I think it is perhaps less ridden with it.

When WILL you get it Trench? An FSU W expecting you to pay for a meal is NOT a 'scammer'..  ?



On age group I would say at your age even in decent shape look more for women in their thirties, they are on the whole more readily wanting to settle down. I've been out with a girl in her twenties and despite her insistence that she was serious she really wasn't and I don't think she really knew it or realised it. Younger girls tend to want stuff bought for them and I was never intending to be a sugar daddy though it seemed that is what I had unwittingly fallen into.

Slaps forehead... Trench... One minute they are 'over the hill' and the next, worthy targets?)

Newsflash... The older the FSU W, the more likely she will expect you to be a 'REAL man'...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 30, 2017, 12:07:02 PM
:shock: Any cases that you knew of? This just sounds so wrong   ::):(. Links would be appreciated.

Is it? Really Trench? Then how do you explain why the majority of FSU lasses get married before the age of 30? Did they simply marry because it was fun? :-\ I trawl through vk whenever I have some free time and all I see are just millions of women seemingly happily married by 30, even for Ukraine  :-\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_age_at_first_marriage

Unless there's evidence to the contrary, I'm going to call bollocks on this one.

Patagonie is one forum member on here that took a woman away from her husband in the FSU. He went over to meet her, I think she was an agency girl or similar, anyway they apparently had restaurant met together and she ended up liking him so much that she ended up being married to him. I don't believe he knew she was married at the time, think it may have been a case of her making out she was single. Look him up in here he posted on here several months ago and told us about it, I think other forum members that have been here long time know the story well I got the impression.

Kyn with the whole age thing, twenties is really the time 'local women marry local guys' you see for many of them dating abroad is a last resort. Few guys in the US or UK would go to all the trouble to date abroad if there was a good supply of quality women locally they could readily get with. Well, its the same for FSW, they all dash for the quality guys in their late teens & early twenties, hell they may even be lining themselves up with a future husband in their mid teens. They know that all the quality men are gone by their mid twenties particularly in the poorer regional cities & town, the ex-industrial cr*p holes. They need a guy that can support a family, that is not becoming an alcoholic, that there is attraction with. Even if they make a bad/wrong choice at least they made/had a stab at it where some women just don't.

By their thirties they are just there for sex for the guys and this to them is of course unappealing, after all what woman wants to just be a bum for some guy to penis up? Only for her to come second to his wife for when she is not available. Its degrading and humiliating for these women to have their virtue in tatters who are brought up being told of the joys of family & children to then be denied this and end up the leftovers and if they get with these men. Hence many stay celibate for years, some may still even be virgins into their thirties.

What I am trying to say is their are many women in their thirties that are still good quality women at least by western standards. Many people that have gone to the FSU comment that a 5-6 there is like a 7-8 here, at least a point or two higher and that is just on looks. Women in their twenties do look abroad for a guy, of course they do and some do marry, but far fewer get to this point of marriage to a foreign guy in their twenties, why? well because they may still hold out the hope of a local guy, they can then live local, less hassle, etc. They also can be more picky with the foreign guys they meet because they have time to play with, if one doesn't suit well hell they still have the rest of their twenties to look around, its far from ideal but they are not in last chance saloon yet. One they get in their thirties they know they only really have to their mid thirties to find a guys as their biological clock is ticking and they have to get to know the guy before getting pregnant ideally of course. For them if a foreign guy comes up they may never get another visit from a foreign guy in their lifetime, do they want to be flippant about this guy who is wealthy enough for foreign travel, to which they could have kids with and have comfortable lifestyle in a nice area away from dumpsk or do they turn him away and be a bum for sex to some married local guy, go figure ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on November 30, 2017, 07:28:01 PM

I can think of a dozen examples off the top of my head that disprove your theory.  Including Billy's first Ukrainian wife.


You seem to think in every divorce a woman leaves the man. I left her. I need to be happy in a marriage too or I will leave. Too many options out there to be spending time with someone who doesn't put in the same effort.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 AM
And I concur with msmob. I have no criminal history of any kind, come from a low-risk country, etc etc so I don't see why they would have any grounds to reject my visa application.



I didn't mean you but Trench! i'm sure you won't have problems...I have been both granted and denied visas..sometimes you never know what the reasoning is..Russian logic :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2017, 02:25:04 AM
Patagonie is one forum member on here that took a woman away from her husband in the FSU. He went over to meet her, I think she was an agency girl or similar, anyway they apparently had restaurant met together and she ended up liking him so much that she ended up being married to him. I don't believe he knew she was married at the time, think it may have been a case of her making out she was single. Look him up in here he posted on here several months ago and told us about it, I think other forum members that have been here long time know the story well I got the impression.

..and .. ?  All that proves is that the lady wasn't happy in her marriage

Kyn with the whole age thing, twenties is really the time 'local women marry local guys'

Is it, now ? :)))  Trench proving - once again - how 'knowledgeable' (not) he is ... I know plenty of single late 20's and 30 something lasses who are single and childless - their choice.

you see for many of them dating abroad is a last resort.

 :ROFL:

More Trench tosh... if anything it's the more sought after and brighter ladies that look overseas ....


Few guys in the US or UK would go to all the trouble to date abroad if there was a good supply of quality women locally

There is simply more choice of slimmer, intelligent women over here in the FSU... with an ideal of family that is more traditional.

Now this is bloody funny ..and a clear example of why your 'advise' should contain a 'health warning'..

By their thirties they are just there for sex for the guys and this to them is of course unappealing, after all what woman wants to just be a bum for some guy to penis up? Only for her to come second to his wife for when she is not available. Its degrading and humiliating for these women to have their virtue in tatters who are brought up being told of the joys of family & children to then be denied this and end up the leftovers and if they get with these men. Hence many stay celibate for years, some may still even be virgins into their thirties.

Classic Trench utter bollox...   You REALLY do not understand the lasses over here - AT ALL .... 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on December 01, 2017, 04:31:33 AM
I didn't mean you but Trench! i'm sure you won't have problems...I have been both granted and denied visas..sometimes you never know what the reasoning is..Russian logic :)

Interesting. Hmm, were there any reasons given for the rejections? What types of visa got rejected?

Well here in London, to my knowledge the visa application process has largely been outsourced and is now largely a commercial operation so imo things may be more "logical" here perhaps.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on December 01, 2017, 08:04:20 AM
Interesting. Hmm, were there any reasons given for the rejections? What types of visa got rejected?

Well here in London, to my knowledge the visa application process has largely been outsourced and is now largely a commercial operation so imo things may be more "logical" here perhaps.

They don't give a reason but mainly it is due to the invitation company.  I applied through a visa agency and the host "companies" they use for the invite may not be completely legit. it's Russia after all.  I usually get business visas as they have a longer validity.  I applied again with a different agency and got it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2017, 01:42:45 PM

Well here in London, to my knowledge the visa application process has largely been outsourced and is now largely a commercial operation so imo things may be more "logical" here perhaps.

The application centres in London, Manchester and Edinburgh are outsourced - but your application is processed in consulates in London and Edinburgh
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on December 01, 2017, 01:55:20 PM
The application centres in London, Manchester and Edinburgh are outsourced - but your application is processed in consulates in London and Edinburgh

Correct msmob. I glossed over the fact that it still needs to go through the consulates.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2017, 09:32:40 PM
..and my apologies - if I came across as a pedant  - in correcting you ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 01, 2017, 10:27:39 PM
Dang fellas!  You all are super.  Even (especially?) Trench.  I got exactly what I was hoping for here, and wonder if there's more ammo left. 

So I took advice and joined up on 3 sites, 2 advertisers here, UD and CuteOnly as well as DMnotify.  I'm certainly getting a lot of attention, both scammers (email me..I'll be your best friend) and their profiles quickly disappear, as well as some very sweet looking and hopefully sincere ladies. I'm putting EM in the backpocket as it definitely looks like the most polished site and I could really pull some nonsense over there if I wanted to devote energy to it I think.

Right now I'm really liking UkraineDate, but as I joined there first, i've put the most energy into that one.  DMnotify is coming through better now, and cuteonly isn't doing as well, but again, i'm spending 75% of my time mining UD. 

I'm not saying I'm killing it by any means, but it's definitely fun and worth the $$ just in entertainment value for me.  Who doesn't like talking to hot chicks, even if you're being catfished half the time.

As far as AFA, I did a little cost analysis, and holy Toledo...for what they want (now that I've really looked at it and seen trip reports like RW) I could walk around like Robert Palmer for that kind of money (not so secret fantasy of mine).  So unless I completely crash and burn, (or hit the lottery), that's not going to be the route I go.

And yes I did watch that movie love me, and it was an inspiration for me in many ways (while in the death throws of my marriage).  The only thing that stopped me from doing this years ago was deciding to play pretty woman with a 21 y/o stripper, turn her into a playboy bunny then watched her finally get so bored because I actually 'gasp' work for a living and cant sit around entertaining her all the time that she ran off with some guy she met on the ::gasp:: internet 2500 miles away (she's miserable now btw and has begged to come back, but LOL anyway)..  I digress...point is I love this idea of finding someone far away.

So yea, I'm kinda a dick I guess, and yes, having fun with a little ego stroking isn't always bad IMO as long as you're not hurting anyone (but yourself).  I mean I LOVE strip clubs, I love dating strippers.  In the end though they are kinda like what you call agency girls right?  I mean I love a splash of trash, but it does get old.

Truly, I'm a softie at heart and I've always gotten my ass kicked by girls.  That's truly one of the worst things about this as far as my fear goes.  I'm not one to wear the pants in the relationship, i'm not a pussy mind you, but I am definitely pussy whipped. I get in trouble letting shit slide.  and from what I can tell, that's very bad news with most of these women.  I"m brave though, i'm willing to bet I can still handle a little fire from 120lb ice queen now and again.

My sincerity in finding a great girl, someone with the values you all are talking about, someone who isn't so entitled and knows that you need to do you part to make things work.  And if she's hot and fun, that's a bonus man.  I know you all will question it, but to most people I'm extremely trustworthy and steadfast.  I don't get to rant like this much about what I really want and think about things.

Everyone's input is great, and I know now that I'll get shredded despite the stop shredded cheese disclaimers and that's OK.  I wish I would have found this thread earlier, and i'm astounded by everyone's input. 

So now what:

I'm really trying to get my shit together to get a trip out there in Feb.  That may be a pipe dream, and I KNOW it will be a beast with the weather.  I really want to snowboard but it looks like the resorts are all on the other side of the country.  Most of the girls I've talked to are from Sumy or Odessa or Kiev (less).  I think you'd have to take an all day train to do something like that and it would probably be miserable (not with the right company I guess).  Not to mention there seems to be a lot of bad politics on that side of the country.  I mean I have to choose somewhere right? And I don't see going ATW to Novosibirsk to be with some super hot chick a very good idea as if it doesn't pan out...well you're in Novosibirsk -- (south siberia?)

Any thoughts on that?  Otherwise I mean what the hell would I do in Sumy for 10 days.  The girl's gotta work right?  From what I can see it's not exactly a hot spot.  I hear there are a TON of women who want to GTFO because of that whole Crimea thing and being the canon fodder if Russia comes through, but it's still a small town.  These chicks either aren't real or they have to know each other right?  I mean how many 28-32 yo hot chicks can live in a town of 260,000 and not know about each other? 

Is it possible to pull them to Kiev from Sumy for the length of your stay?  Can they do that realistically?  I figure if stuff crashes and burns with the woman I'm visiting at least I can crank on the sites and pay for dinners every night in Kiev to keep from being lonely and cold as hell right?  I was really leaning towards Kiev, but I have a feeling that Moscow/Kiev would both have major difficulties with getting a 'good girl' (even if the english of the girl might be better etc). 

Obviously Odessa is a good candidate too, but I'm not experienced enough with any of this to navigate like RW did or like some others have.  I don't want to end up like Osis .. kinda sounded like he was generally pissed off about the whole thing on his trip report.

So those are some more of my thoughts on this and I'm getting fired up.  Running every day, hitting the gym, i might be a bald ass mofo, but at least I'll be lean and mean when (if) I get there. 

Let the massacre begin i guess. Enjoy the feast.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2017, 10:55:46 PM
Well, you're honest - and if everyone has the same attitude as you - paying money to be written to by ladies - who might actually be a be hairy Boris - then the pay by letter sites will be here a little longer, yet ! ;)

BTW There's the Carpathian mountains in W.Ukraine and Sochi - Russia, for snowboarding  - you don't HAVE to go to Siberia ..

You may be making the classic error - by excluding the more far flung places...  Model agency scouts make a bee-line for N'birsk, Krasnoyarsk, etc...they are cities of ac. one million or more ...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 01, 2017, 11:05:30 PM
I do make a lot of classic errors.  I rambled a lot because i was excited.  What I was saying is that the dating sites are fun.  I know that some are scammers, but it's fun to learn how they work.  I'm not at the point of getting any attachment to any of them (this is like day 4) so maybe we'll talk about how fun getting catfished is after a few months. 

As far as the other cities, can you help me out here.  What exactly are you saying?  I grew up cold war, Russia scares me a little, but if you're saying that those larger cities in the interior are great for this, please help me, post some links and such for me to read up on please!

I also watched the loveme movie with David Arquette ... the movie movie.  not the one Trenchcoat referenced (more documentary)  I'll watch it though.

and I'm not talking about ever doing the PPL thing.  That's just crazy. I'm just talking about girls on the sites.   

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 01, 2017, 11:24:40 PM


BTW There's the Carpathian mountains in W.Ukraine and Sochi - Russia, for snowboarding  - you don't HAVE to go to Siberia ..

That's what I was referring to about meeting a girl in Sumy and having to go ATW across the country.  I also saw a bunch of stuff about the whole stuff about Lugansk i mean is that a thing?  You'd have to cross all that nonsense from one side to the other.  I'm up for adventure, but war is pretty scary stuff. 

When I was in Maiorca I met a stunner from Latvia...I've read a little about 'single guys PUA' type stuff and Latvia had favorable views, but honestly I'm not looking for that.  I really want to get married and quit all this nonsense.  I'd rather spend my energy posting on the couples forums than here.  I am definitely not one of those guys that loves the hunt. 

http://www.visahunter.com/articles/the-best-online-dating-sites-in-latvia/ (http://www.visahunter.com/articles/the-best-online-dating-sites-in-latvia/) 

these are pretty bad, tried badoo...and it's a mess imo.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2017, 11:28:49 PM


As far as the other cities, can you help me out here.  What exactly are you saying?  I grew up cold war, Russia scares me a little, but if you're saying that those larger cities in the interior are great for this, please help me, post some links and such for me to read up on please!

I base my observations on experience..  My Russian wife is from Siberia - Krasnoyarsk - a big city I expect most have never heard of - unless you find a lass from there... It's another 4 hour plane ride east of Moscow.  LOADS of guys wrote her - 'inviting her to Moscow' - while they were there 'on business' ( yeah right) and I was the first guy to actually show up....

You can easily get an RU visa and I live here for much of the time ... it's perfectly safe - from the 'You're a westerner' perspective.


and I'm not talking about ever doing the PPL thing.  That's just crazy. I'm just talking about girls on the sites.   

Wise man !

Here's a list of Russian cities by population - in descending order:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_and_towns_in_Russia_by_population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_and_towns_in_Russia_by_population)

I spend my time in Sochi - which when combined with other 'cities' within 30km is unofficially over a 1m - possibly a million and a half - after all the investment in the Winter Olympics, FIFA 2108 orld cup, Formula 1 facing and the ski resorts - mountains AND  sea - what more could you want ?;)

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g3206479-d3753947-Reviews-Rosa_Khutor_Ski_Resort-Esto_Sadok_Adler_District_Sochi_Greater_Sochi_Krasnodar_K.html (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g3206479-d3753947-Reviews-Rosa_Khutor_Ski_Resort-Esto_Sadok_Adler_District_Sochi_Greater_Sochi_Krasnodar_K.html)

Edited to add video!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUnm7utcGbM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUnm7utcGbM)



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2017, 11:45:32 PM


That's what I was referring to about meeting a girl in Sumy and having to go ATW across the country.  I also saw a bunch of stuff about the whole stuff about Lugansk i mean is that a thing?  You'd have to cross all that nonsense from one side to the other.  I'm up for adventure, but war is pretty scary stuff. 

Lughansk is a city in Ukraine - currently under the control of 'rebels' - supported by Russia - although - it's as much about money and control of the resources.  The people are kind there - but the 'regime' sn not recognised by any western govt and it would be unwise to travel there - lest some 'wack job' thought you were a spy !  IF you want to meet a lass from there - you'd be wiser to meet her in Russia or areas of Ukraine that aren't in or near a war zone.





When I was in Maiorca I met a stunner from Latvia...I've read a little about 'single guys PUA' type stuff and Latvia had favorable views, but honestly I'm not looking for that.  I really want to get married and quit all this nonsense.  I'd rather spend my energy posting on the couples forums than here.  I am definitely not one of those guys that loves the hunt. 

http://www.visahunter.com/articles/the-best-online-dating-sites-in-latvia/ (http://www.visahunter.com/articles/the-best-online-dating-sites-in-latvia/) 

Having - just -spent 4 days in Latvia - in the Russian speaking areas, mainly - I can state there'd be plenty of lasses wanting to be in Majorca or ANYWHERE other than a winter there (( 

The people were kind and helpful.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 02, 2017, 08:32:24 AM
You're a genius msmob, this is exactly the kind of advice I needed.  Lift lines on that day would have been amazing!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 02, 2017, 11:42:12 PM
You will  find that women there are pretty similar to those from your own country, with the same huge variances in personality, maturity, ethics, sense of entitlement, or lack thereof.
These individual personal differences are far greater than any of the cultural nuances in my opinion.
  The  differences you'd note  are likely as much from economic hardship as anything.
Like anywhere, a struggle can build someone's character positively , or  effect it negatively.

To be blunt, the culture  there in general has a more negative outlook.Crabs in a bucket.
A lot if that is to do with corruption at every level which leads to a bleak future outlook to those living in  it.Most in my opinion  are effected by all of it in a not so great way.
 Like any crucible, it can really turn out someone positive and outstanding as well.

 Look for someone positive and outstanding,  regardless location(or for that matter nationality)
If you find someone that really would fit in with you and your culture they will assimilate quickly anyway, So the cultural  stuff guys talk about will mean little.
Those that are negative (many are,sorry it's a stereotype for good reason) will not assimilate well, have huge culture shock and a hard time adjusting.
I've seen a lot of this way.

As example,on the positive side,  in our area there is zero chance you could tell my wife from any local soccer mom.She always liked the culture here,and even if noting things that were different originally,  looked for the positive side of it. That's not something you see in a lot of FSU immigrants.
Sure you could tell she's not from the states
 from a slight accent,that's diminishing yearly,  but not from style  of dress, life outlook, or political outlooks, etc. Etc. Etc.
Nothing in our relationship has anything to do with her nationality or cultural background.If successful, ultimately you'd be in the same spot.
So my advice is forget the hype, concentrate on finding the person, that one fantastic person to meet(and even then it's just that, a meeting,nothing more) not thinking about the country, city etc, and above all do not rule out continuing to date locally. Use international dating as a means to extend possibilities,,nothing more.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 02, 2017, 11:51:56 PM
And by all means, forget a tour.
Those mostly went away a decade or more ago, and fir good reason as they never were a very good option.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 03, 2017, 01:04:33 PM

As far as the other cities, can you help me out here.  What exactly are you saying?  I grew up cold war, Russia scares me a little, but if you're saying that those larger cities in the interior are great for this, please help me, post some links and such for me to read up on please!

I also watched the loveme movie with David Arquette ... the movie movie.  not the one Trenchcoat referenced (more documentary)  I'll watch it though.

Well over here in UK the 'love me' (2014) documentary is on Netflix, it's a fun watch and like I said gives a good insight not just into the AFA tour but FSU Dating in general. If it's not on Netflix on the US & if you can't get UK netflux then try other streaming services, Google search & Amaxon, etc. There is also a good You Tube video on another lot that used to do tours, I don't think they do tours anymore and they show some of the more dubious men that show up, it's good for a laugh and I'll try to find it for you sometime. Also, if you look on Amazon a book called 'Odessa Dreams' is a worthwhile read, it gives you an insight into some of the scams connected with tours, what they are like and is a good laugh also. After seeing/reading these I would say don't get obessed with scamping it happens but there are a lot of sincere women too. Some guys turn into scammer hunters and lose the plot entirely spending their days tracking down scammers and reporting them on FSU Scammer websites. Please don't end up as one of these guys, it's just sad and misses the whole point of dating east European girls entirely which of course is to get with them, a good one.

The reason to pass over girls in the Luhansk/Donetsk region and there aboutS is the civil war in that area (east Ukraine). A scam is easy to run from a war zone, she may not even be there due to the state of that area. Also if you were to agree to meet you would likely be paying all the travel & hotel cost for her - not expensive but she may just be using you for a trip away. Lastly, and perhaps most crucially you will never be able to visit her home city as you will not be able to access a war zone - it will be too dangerous and you will be denied access by the authorities.

Girl's from cities far flung in Russia are likely to be sincere, in Ukraine there has been a long tradition of insincere women operating to swindle western men. Don't get me wrong they are some nice women and nearly all women you will meet there will be charming and hospitable sincere or not but as I have found it takes more effort & importantly experience to know what you are doing there.

I would also say if you get baited easily then be wary the dating industry (particularly Ukraine & particularly tours) are set up with guys like you in mind. Try & cool off the excitement a little if you want a genuine girl and look at the more everday type of women out there. I think though end of the day the wat you are going to learn the most like most of us here is to get get over there and learn from mistakes made. AFA tours are somewhat expensive but you get the flight, hotel & travel all in and the women are supplied en-mass so plenty to choose from even if a dubious bunch. RW didn't do a tour he medashed a girl on Anastasia Date (a PPL site) and met her in Odessa - normally a real big no, no to do as agency girls are known for scamming guys more than any other.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 03, 2017, 03:15:40 PM
Thank again guys.  Trenchcoat, you keep giving solid advice like that and people are going to start treating you differently! 

I think in just the few days of reading this stuff and playing the dating site thing I'm getting a better feel for this.  There are definitely all kinds, pushy girls, bored girls, scammers, and even some seemingly normal girls. 

Tour is out.  I was saying that for the kind of money for a tour you could do a trip like RWs and live like a king. Even he did it on the cheap with all the air bnbs and stuff. 

And i've opened my thoughts up to other girls in Russia.  I think I understand why dmnotify is popular here, gives a nice variety of places vs just Ukraine.

Couple of questions: 

I know the agency girls with the PPL were big, but do these sites pay girls to keep members talking as well?  Or is the hot and cold nature of the logins and chat on the sites normal and not to be read into some kind of concerted thing?  I'm asking because I'll talk to a couple of girls a bit then they will all be gone for a while, then all back at the same time.  I mean it could just be work/time of day thing, which makes sense, but i'm a little paranoid.  I'm wondering if their job IS to talk to me.  So when they are off, that's their weekend and they don't talk, then its back to work talking to me.  OMG this is some weird shit to think about.

What's with the trips?  Like most of the girls say they like to travel, and you ask a few where they have been and they've been all over Europe or Egypt, or SE Asia.  I understand that's normal for some guys to pay for them to travel with them, and it's usually travel with benefits.  I don't really have a problem with that, but does that mean that they are going to scam you -- or were they sort of scammed possibly by a vacation boyfriend who promised he was serious and bailed?  I guess I'm asking should this be a deal breaker?  It's really hard for me to picture a small town Ukraine girl paying for a 10 day trip to Bali or a trip to Egypt with her daughter.  Or another single girl from Vladivostok going to Japan, France and Spain on her own.   I saw the pictures, she was there, or at least the girl in the add was there, but it's just hard to reconcile with that person talking to an old dude from phoenix about getting married.  LOL.

Finally about apps and translations and stuff.  I have one girl who uses whatsapp, which i completely prefer to say the dmnotify chat (it's just way easier) but then some girls don't want to move because they say the translator isn't there.  As a side note, I had 2 girls that were chatting quite a bit with me on ukrainedate, but when I suggested we move to whatsapp, they completely shut down.  Coincidence?  Again I'm feeling like i'm paranoid but maybe it's because they are out to mess with me.  This is what made me wonder about question 1.  If we move to whatsapp, what's the need for the website?



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 03, 2017, 03:33:35 PM
Trench is wrong about the sincerity of RW vs UW. The difference is that in Ukraine, the agency system is entrenched, and women working through those agencies are often paid so they are not sincere.

Lots of Russians and Ukrainians can afford to travel. Vladivostok to Japan is probably relatively inexpensive, given they are practically neighbours. Tours to Egypt and Turkey are common in both countries. Trains or even buses to the EU also cut down on cost.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 03, 2017, 04:34:34 PM
The agency system in Ukraine is entrenched but I would also say that it has in turn promoted insincere values to non-agency women as a result of its being.

Gaspar, there is certainly a cost saving by sourcing your own women a tour though would bring up a load of women to feast from. Some are dodgy, many no doubt but don't expect your own efforts to dig up much better. RW I think knew how to play the game quite well for a new starter as he worked in HR as his job and/or he may have got somewhat lucky. We still don't know about the long term result there if anything led on from it. Many guys including myself don't meet with success first time. I've done ok so far in that I've met girls & had a good time in general. I have not had success yet but with experience I am hopefull.

Stay away from PPL agencies either use pay monthly or free sites. If your using pay monthly or free site and girls are avolable at same time it may mean they are talking in their evening/weekend. Remember there is a time zone conversion to be done. PPL sites very much pay their girls (or guys) to keep members talking and work in shifts so may come on at the same time. You are paying per letter there so that's what keeps them making money it can add up quickly.

Gaspar if there is one thing I can impart to you is that the expense of making a false move like visiting a girl from a ppl agency, not visiting a girl in her home city, showing pics of you looking wealthy, etc, etc is often a 'go back start' on the FSU dating board game and start over.

Personally, these days I put girls with holiday photos to the back of my list. They are a lot of holiday whores in the FSU dating game so really watch out for them. Lots of photos particularly to western countries screams holiday whore. You have to learn to judge them a little, sure places like Turkey may be ok as it's a typical destination for Ukrainians, etc but even here many get western men to pay for the trip. A girl who says she likes travelling could well be looking to do so at the guys expense. Leave out all holidays (a mistake I made but I thought it was the real deal). Pushy women seem quote frequent in the FSU. I thought pushy may not be a problem at first but longer term it looks like it van drive a relationship to the rocks when she decides on relationship issues or development and refuses to compromise.

I've no idea how WhatsApp works on their side. Skype I'very had no complaints from the women maybe suggest that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 03, 2017, 08:17:21 PM
The agency system in Ukraine is entrenched but I would also say that it has in turn promoted insincere values to non-agency women as a result of its being.

...and I would say - based on your extremely limited experience - lack of knowledge of the local lingo or customs and seemingly an inability to absorb the advice of people from there or living there - that you are talking out of your a*se.((


Gaspar, there is certainly a cost saving by sourcing your own women a tour though would bring up a load of women to feast from. Some are dodgy, many no doubt but don't expect your own efforts to dig up much better.

You just do not 'get it... a Tour brings up a 'pig in a poke'... ( hardly a 'feast' ). I don't know if this expression 'travels' - but even Trench will understand what it means in the UK vernacular.  'Cost' doesn't come into it ... other than improving your chances...  This is not a rational exercise and watching the pennies - other than buying flights and hotels, wisely - is the extend of the control you may have.


RW I think knew how to play the game quite well for a new starter as he worked in HR as his job and/or he may have got somewhat lucky. We still don't know about the long term result there if anything led on from it. Many guys including myself don't meet with success first time. I've done ok so far in that I've met girls & had a good time in general. I have not had success yet but with experience I am hopefull.

RW - has a good job, as was prepared to splash some cash - renting sl. more up-market places at the end of the season .. He went with a relaxed attitude and wasn't particularly hunting for a LTR....

Stay away from PPL agencies either use pay monthly or free sites. If your using pay monthly or free site and girls are avolable at same time it may mean they are talking in their evening/weekend. Remember there is a time zone conversion to be done. PPL sites very much pay their girls (or guys) to keep members talking and work in shifts so may come on at the same time. You are paying per letter there so that's what keeps them making money it can add up quickly.

You just don't know if you are speaking TO the girl in the photos - or even if it's a girl ...

Gaspar if there is one thing I can impart to you is that the expense of making a false move like visiting a girl from a ppl agency, not visiting a girl in her home city, showing pics of you looking wealthy, etc, etc is often a 'go back start' on the FSU dating board game and start over.

Nonsense ...   If you are serious about finding a LTR - your pics should portray your truthful lifestyle - not over-selling / underselling

Personally, these days I put girls with holiday photos to the back of my list.

 :ROFL: The advice of a novice... I once thought as you did - V had photos with her son on holiday in Turkey - it was the last family holiday taken with her then husband....    She took a holiday - alone - to Turkey in Sept - only because another lady pulled out and SC said she'd go in her place- but also pulled out as she found a 'bargain' and bought another apt ...

UA / RU folk can get incredible prices for tours - bargains - so don't be too quick to make assumptions...


I've no idea how WhatsApp works on their side. Skype I'very had no complaints from the women maybe suggest that.

???  !!!  We only recently had a bizarre thread from you on the 'downsides' of using Skype ))  Whatsapp, Viber and Skype all work fine - as long as there's good enough internet - both ends..

BTW :  Telegram is an excellent chat and - (currently) voice only - app - it works in 'poor' internet connect areas- when the other three afore-mentioned services will render one / both of you inaudible

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 03, 2017, 08:21:05 PM
Trench is wrong about the sincerity of RW vs UW. The difference is that in Ukraine, the agency system is entrenched, and women working through those agencies are often paid so they are not sincere.

Lots of Russians and Ukrainians can afford to travel. Vladivostok to Japan is probably relatively inexpensive, given they are practically neighbours. Tours to Egypt and Turkey are common in both countries. Trains or even buses to the EU also cut down on cost.

Hi Boethius

AKAIK, there's no charter holidays to Egypt from RU, still  - those going must arrange tours via Belarus - or fly via Turkey - booking direct.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 04, 2017, 09:55:36 AM
Kyn you're dead right. Females in the UK, US, etc have been sent on a fools errand. They don't see that by pursuing a career they are scuppering their own boat. They are going all out to provide for themselves - a task that used to be handed to the man. When they get to their late twenties to early thirties they ask themselves 'where are all the good men to choose from?' Meaning guys that have/can provide for themselves. They don't like it that a man would come and sponge of the provision they have made, i.e own property, etc. They seem to not realise that ghd man was supposed to provide this. They have mare life harder for themselves and put themselves into a position where virtually no man is suitable for them. The men left are the ones they knocked out in competition to get the plum job or to get a job. They have unwittingly dug theor own grave and will have to remain in work till retirement.

It's true that many of these women get off on getting carried away with the job. Men can do but tend to see it more as a means to an end of providing the money they need for family/comfort. Women are very easy to lead on and a lot of employers see this and target this aspect. Women love a pat on the back, recognition and an idea of status - basically a facade that they are something special. All of it is meaningless but they just can't grasp the big picture. One day they are going to retire or be laid off - their employer they will find won't care as they thought. The company that told them how it cares for them in their material to its employees will find its a lot of meaningless words. Shortly after moving on they will quickly be forgotten about along with all their years of hard work.

It's unfortunate that the feminist world that offered so much back in the 70s & 80s forward has only served to bugger both sexes up and cause a lot of loniness & misery. Both sexes in the west have been set against each other hacking the cr*p out of each other only for both to end up the losers. We really need to adjust our thinking in the west as society itself is falling apart.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on December 04, 2017, 10:51:04 AM
Kyn you're dead right. Females in the UK, US, etc have been sent on a fools errand. They don't see that by pursuing a career they are scuppering their own boat. They are going all out to provide for themselves - a task that used to be handed to the man. When they get to their late twenties to early thirties they ask themselves 'where are all the good men to choose from?' Meaning guys that have/can provide for themselves. They don't like it that a man would come and sponge of the provision they have made, i.e own property, etc. They seem to not realise that ghd man was supposed to provide this. They have mare life harder for themselves and put themselves into a position where virtually no man is suitable for them. The men left are the ones they knocked out in competition to get the plum job or to get a job. They have unwittingly dug theor own grave and will have to remain in work till retirement.

It's true that many of these women get off on getting carried away with the job. Men can do but tend to see it more as a means to an end of providing the money they need for family/comfort. Women are very easy to lead on and a lot of employers see this and target this aspect. Women love a pat on the back, recognition and an idea of status - basically a facade that they are something special. All of it is meaningless but they just can't grasp the big picture. One day they are going to retire or be laid off - their employer they will find won't care as they thought. The company that told them how it cares for them in their material to its employees will find its a lot of meaningless words. Shortly after moving on they will quickly be forgotten about along with all their years of hard work.

It's unfortunate that the feminist world that offered so much back in the 70s & 80s forward has only served to bugger both sexes up and cause a lot of loniness & misery. Both sexes in the west have been set against each other hacking the cr*p out of each other only for both to end up the losers. We really need to adjust our thinking in the west as society itself is falling apart.


Unbelievable! You just can't make this sh!t up, man! I guess more power to you if this is what defines you. May you find happiness within your world!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 04, 2017, 08:31:14 PM
Quote
i know the agency girls with the PPL were big, but do these sites pay girls to keep members talking as well?  Or is the hot and cold nature of the logins and chat on the sites normal and not to be read into some kind of concerted thing?  I'm asking because I'll talk to a couple of girls a bit then they will all be gone for a while, then all back at the same time.  I mean it could just be work/time of day thing, which makes sense, but i'm a little paranoid.  I'm wondering if their job IS to talk to me.  So when they are off, that's their weekend and they don't talk, then its back to work talking to me.  OMG this is some weird shit to think about.


For many (no not all,but many) women at the ppl.agencies or vid chat agencies  It absolutely is a job.
Never ever doubt that.


They are also, in many cases , paid by the agency To meet you if you travel .

The younger, the hotter, that they are, the bigger the percentage thats it's a job,and a damn good paying job in a provincial city.

some young hottie regularly available  to chat, at times most would be sleeping , on a routine schedule is most assuredly working.

That doesn't mean she isnt open to meeting you, or open to marriage.
(If wanting to communicate with foreign men,to possibly marry, why not get a job that pays you for your time to do so? Duh.)

It also doesn't mean she isn't already married, open to meet you,For the agency fee, and will gladly communicate with you (only thru the agency )for as long as you like.

Some have left their husbands for the foreign guy.i know one personally.Most wouldn't.
(Yes her Ukrainian  husband knew her job , and encouraged her to work)

There are a thousand variables, but if you want the matrix, you are in it if you step into MOB, PPL agencies. Lol

What it means mostly is that PPL sites are one of the worst ways to meet sincere fsu women .

Tours would rank the worst.

__________________

As far as vacactions, why on earth wouldn't FSU folk take them , and then post photos of interesting places they have been?

Many can afford to travel to the places you most often see in such photos, and of course like to take photos, and share them.







Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 04, 2017, 09:15:44 PM
Kyn you're dead right. Females in the UK, US, etc have been sent on a fools errand.

Trench, the only 'fool' may well be YOU!

My younger sister wasn't THAT academic - but has always been diligent- and went into a career in the legal  profession. She chose - LONG ago - to follow that path over settling down and having kids - preferring to be a kind aunt to her nieces. Her fellow Uni students - with whom she shared accommodation - and are still close friends - have mostly gone on to have careers - like Vets, Doctors and managed to have kids.

From a FSU  woman's perspective - according to my former Wife - coming to the west 'opened her eyes' to the possibility that the society she grew up in ( the man provides, etc) now seems flawed ..she now has her own business, provides for herself, etc., Is she a 'feminist'? - no way.






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 04, 2017, 09:36:52 PM
It was the afford part.  I don't think 10 days in Bali is cheap for anyone when you factor in rafting/zip lining etc.  I mean I know it would be a pretty major thing for me to my kids on a trip like that.  For that girl, it certainly could have been from a trip with the father or something along those lines.  Plausible.

I do know airfare is different in Europe from many of the hubs, last year I flew from Rome to Athens for $75.  Unheard of here in the USA for any flight unless you catch a SWA super sale or something.  So going to France/Spain/Turkey completely makes sense.  Even Japan/Korea in this case as they are close.

Again, I don't care about it either, I mean they are going to date guys before/after/during the discussions etc, I just wondered more about if I this is something to worry about as far as them not being sincere, and it sounds like essentially it's not.  Especially if they aren't in Ukraine or maybe Moscow/St. Pete's where there are a much higher volume of men coming through or business geared towards this industry.  The girl is most likely legit in at least the majority of what she's telling me I think (as am I).

As an aside, I would wonder if there are a large number of Korean/Japanese men involved in this foreign bride thing and how much the women would be open to that.  A girl I'm talking to says she's a florist (is that really a thing?) and will be working in Busan for 2 months. 

I mean straight up, if that was a girl from Pheonix that looks like this girl going to Vegas to be a 'florist' -- she's a stripper.  (again, i'm all for it, i just want to know the truth).  Is that even a relatively plausible thing?  My spidey sense says hell no, but wtf do I know about Vladivostok florists and Busan?  For all I know, it's a friend of their family owns a shop and she's really going to work there, its not something i'm going to grill her on.  Or maybe it's just a hope, not a certainty for her as she did say wages suck in Vladivostok and she answered an ad.   I just don't like getting fu**ed with so trying to get input.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 04, 2017, 10:00:30 PM
It is so random that I really don't  think you can say it would be an indicator of anything.
That is regardless of country or city.
Some have traveled a lot.some have been in the usa several times.

They may have had wealthy parents,  they may have had a good job, they may have worked for a travel agency or been  tour guides.
They also may have dated guys just to travel,or been escorts,
 you sure are not going to work that out because of some photos posted , is my point.
And no, interrogating someone isn't going to yield anything either lol

  You'll have to correspond and communicate enough to have a better grasp of their life, life experience and who they are.

There are no shortcuts in this.
Assumptions over things like that just limit possibilities.
There is no risk in just letting time and communication sort things out.

I met my wife through one of the worst ways. A Ppl agency, one in a city known for scams.
I don't advise that path , I'm just glad I dint rule out meeting her over concerns.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 04, 2017, 10:10:40 PM
As far as men involved,  it doesn't matter.
The reality is so very few travel,from anywhere,  that's it's not important in your own individual search.

This is a photo from my wife's agency profile.
Not one foreign man had visited her.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/922/5z98s7.jpg) (http://imageshack.com/i/pm5z98s7j)

Anyway you'll have to develop a relationship and win her heart regardless, your competition to do so is irrelevant to that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 04, 2017, 10:23:09 PM

Unbelievable! You just can't make this sh!t up, man! I guess more power to you if this is what defines you. May you find happiness within your world!

TC has some rather interesting perspectives lol


Trench,  sorry man but I just can't fathom if you are serious at times, or merely lean that way and just take it far out to get a rise.

Continuing financial and social equality has let women more readily  decide  if they'd rather be their own provider or not, and perhaps allowed choosing a partner to be more about love and friendship. So yes a tad more cough picky. Lol
Marriage purely for love is a rather recent thing in terms of history.?

Do you not see the conundrum in you not really thinking that a (western?) woman marrying more for merely love  is a good thing?

All the while sweating the possibility of a FSU woman marrying you for mere opportunity.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 12:17:43 PM
Hi Boethius

AKAIK, there's no charter holidays to Egypt from RU, still  - those going must arrange tours via Belarus - or fly via Turkey - booking direct.

Not sure on details of travel, I'm sure you are spot on,  but when I was in sharm el sheik, it was full of mostly Russian and Ukrainian tourists.
So yeah I never thought much about it to see then with photos from Egypt , or Cyprus as you well know.  :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 05, 2017, 12:32:44 PM
Jumper, Ukrainian or Russian posting?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 12:58:10 PM
Jumper, Ukrainian or Russian posting?

I'm not sure I follow exactly.
My wife is from Nikolaev, Ukraine.
The agency site the profile was on was one of the well known(And despised) PPLs based in the USA as most are.Actually it was on several big name sites.
  They all have the same business model of using affiliate local agencies in the FSU
to supply their websites content,(And allows them culpable deniability)

My point was so few men travel,  in relation to the amount of womens profiles listed, (or single women from regular fsu based dating sites)regardless whether it's to a provincial city in Russia or Ukraine, or to a more business hub like Moscow or Kyiv, that it won't matter.
 And ultimately it will still come down to you winning her heart, or not, just like domestic relationships ;)
Most women you'd meet there (anywhere in the fsu) havnt met a foreign man romantically, yes some would have, if she's still single ,why would it matter?
By far the biggest competition for any sincere woman is going to be the local men. They far out number you in any FSU city big or small . Lol


If a guy sweats a city , because of competition thst  it may have more foreign  men visiting,  he missed that train back 2 decades ago lol.
I saw piles of German businessmen in kharkiv and dnepropetrovsk back in 1999.A guy would be just  a tad late in the game to try and fish in perceived non-fished waters.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 05, 2017, 01:42:56 PM
I'm not sure I follow exactly.
My wife is from Nikolaev, Ukraine.
The agency site the profile was on was one of the well known(And despised) PPLs based in the USA as most are.Actually it was on several big name sites.
  They all have the same business model of using affiliate local agencies in the FSU
to supply their websites content,(And allows them culpable deniability)

My point was so few men travel,  in relation to the amount of womens profiles listed, (or single women from regular fsu based dating sites)regardless whether it's to a provincial city in Russia or Ukraine, or to a more business hub like Moscow or Kyiv, that it won't matter.
 And ultimately it will still come down to you winning her heart, or not, just like domestic relationships ;)
Most women you'd meet there (anywhere in the fsu) havnt met a foreign man romantically, yes some would have, if she's still single ,why would it matter?
By far the biggest competition for any sincere woman is going to be the local men. They far out number you in any FSU city big or small . Lol


If a guy sweats a city , because of competition thst  it may have more foreign  men visiting,  he missed that train back 2 decades ago lol.
I saw piles of German businessmen in kharkiv and dnepropetrovsk back in 1999.A guy would be just  a tad late in the game to try and fish in perceived non-fished waters.

Jumper, your luck was in there big time then herring a girl from not just a PPL site but also from the very heart of the 'dating industry' aka Nikolaev (Gaspar - by 'dating industry' we mean the bad side of the business). She is quite a stunner as well though I am supposing her photo is given the makeover. So how did this all go down? And how did you manage to get an agency girl from a PPL site without being burned as nearly all that try this route? Was it that there was just the attraction on meeting? Was it long ago?

Also Gaspar just to clarify Moby taking issue with my stance on holiday photos. I did say there are some exceptions such as Turkey & the like, that it is a matter of being subjective that you learn with time. Yes Russians & Ukrainians can be found all over the world but for most FSU folk it is too expensive - their focus is on daily survival not globe trotting. When you visit countries like Ukraine look around you and tune in - you will notice that with some exceptions they are not all that wealthy. If I were looking at a girls photos and she had several of places in the west then I would be cautious, if she didn't have a very high status well paid job then I would be even more cautious. There no absolute hard and fast rules as Jumpers situation shows but by not following the often resounded conceived wisdom of the consensus of members on here nearly all men fall foul, it's just the odd few get real lucky every once in a while I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 05, 2017, 01:44:40 PM
I only asked out of curiosity. A knockout like that in Ukraine I would have thought would have met more people. Not anything More than just a reference point, and I 100% understand RM thing. It's not about competition, I'm fine w that.  Power to em!

Question about total costs. What is the estimate, outside of normal costs like food, travel. What does the process cost like legal, administrative, customs, visa, translating? I saw the visa costs like 500ish? Is there a turnkey service for this?

And yeah, I'm thinking a lot of costs. As far as the domestic violence thing and support - I get this is worst case- but considering what American girls are capable of... What happens if you marry, then Get divorced quickly or dv is accused?  Is it typical that you have a prenup? How can you protect yourself short of selecting wisely? I can't imagine how awful it would be to be stuck paying for some chick that made dv charges up, or for some lawyer to come after half my stuff for what amounts to a few months of nookie.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 05, 2017, 02:37:19 PM
...or for some lawyer to come after half my stuff for what amounts to a few months of nookie.

Hear, hear :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 02:40:41 PM
I only asked out of curiosity. A knockout like that in Ukraine I would have thought would have met more people.

I dint take it any differently.  :)
I posted it exactly to show that the women just don't get the visitors you might imagine, regardless relative  attractiveness,,age, location ,that Ukraine isn't over run with foreign men.lol
Nikolaev just isn't far from Odessa, a popular tourist city.
Granted a TC asked about, her photos were a tad enhanced like all such agencies do,but still a very attractive 28yo , and men are men, and not one foreign man had bothered to go meet her, certainly thousands wrote,but none traveled.
My point remains don't concentrate on eliminating some city,country,  or region ,over such thinking. None of the things men commonly  dwell about are the real root issues.
Eliminating areas to look, when using international dating to expand your possibilities is counter productive . Dont do it.

Look for the woman, where she lives isn't the important factor in such a search.


Quote
Question about total costs. What is the estimate, outside of normal costs like food, travel. What does the process cost like legal, administrative, customs, visa, translating? I saw the visa costs like 500ish? Is there a turnkey service for this?

And yeah, I'm thinking a lot of costs. As far as the domestic violence thing and support - I get this is worst case- but considering what American girls are capable of... What happens if you marry, then Get divorced quickly or dv is accused?  Is it typical that you have a prenup? How can you protect yourself short of selecting wisely? I can't imagine how awful it would be to be stuck paying for some chick that made dv charges up, or for some lawyer to come after half my stuff for what amounts to a few months of nookie.

You need some disposable income,that's certain.
You absolutely do not need to be wealthy, that's total B.S..
Each individual will be different. A guy with a home paid for
And minimal debt load ,is in a different scenario from a guy with double the salary, but triple the debt load.
 
 You can't realistically protect yourself other than choosing wisely.
A good person, if good character isn't going to screw you over.
Take whatever time(and expense) is needed to really know  the person
 as best you can.

There are a million threads here in prenups. LOL!

I won't even go there as far as advice.its just  too individual and circumstantial regarding personal finances, whether prior children or a family business is involved, what state you reside in, etc etc etc etc etc

I'll just say I did not have one,  or need one with my ex, after 7 years we parted amicably and absolutely fairly in both parties opinion.
I do not have ,want, or need one currently either.


As far as travel, I viewed it as certainly  not her problem I choose such a long commute for a date.lol
I did not find it expensive,compared to any other vacation,
But I've lived in several countries , including eastern europe,and nothing was really new to me there
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 02:45:13 PM
Hear, hear :D


If it's viewed by the guy as a risk vs reward scenario over a few months (or years?)of sex, with a hottie, he is likely to get exactly  what he fears.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 03:09:08 PM
Jumper, your luck was in there big time then herring a girl from not just a PPL site but also from the very heart of the 'dating industry' aka Nikolaev (Gaspar - by 'dating industry' we mean the bad side of the business). She is quite a stunner as well though I am supposing her photo is given the makeover. So how did this all go down? And how did you manage to get an agency girl from a PPL site without being burned as nearly all that try this route? Was it that there was just the attraction on meeting? Was it long ago?


We have been married 6 years, initially met in 2010.

I did not post a trip report, or a how it worked out,as I don't think men should follow that path,but as I said during rwrecruiters Trip report , some have done so, several members here are married to women from Odessa or niko,after  an initial meeting on a ppl site,as poor of a method as it is.

I do think luck plays a role, but only as much as you let it ;)
  I met and married  prior,  as well,and it's not like we did not have a good relationship for several years, or some train wreck ending.
We ultimately just had different goals in life and views on priorities.
That's more  on me as her, and regardless two people can care about each other that are not truly compatible.Life happens.I matured from the experience,she did as well. Anyway, to say i just got lucky in meeting sincere FSU women twice seems a stretch, but hey, perhaps it was only luck.
:)
You'd have to throw out that i met a smart,wonderful, stunning  irish woman in 88,and married her, as just luck as well right?
Maybe I just like accents.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 05, 2017, 03:35:54 PM
I guess something is happening for you jumper though without knowing your exact situation it's not always easy to say what. At 28 your girl was like RW's in the retirement package needed age bracket for agency girls. Interesting that no one ever visited her - it probably is lowish a figure though depends if she's telling the truth. If she said no one visited then she may look less of an agency girl so less bad vibes.

I know from being to Nikolaev they don't seem to get a lot of foreigners there, a few business people from time to time and I guess guys like us. Although nearish to Odessa the airport is not operating there and it kind of feels a little desolate when compared to Odessa. Odessa too I think has a few more foreign visitors but is still mostly home crowd that go there for holidays.

Personally with pics I would much rather have personally taken unprofessional pics any time tells me so much more. Pro pics that have had any sort of make over done is almost like putting a kind on blindfold on. I think from when you were looking was coming to the end off the PPL era and onto pa monthly then free sites. I looked briefly online around 2008 and did a cheap PPL site. Did a Skype with a girl that seemed to go well but when trying to separate her from the agency (get her email things went dead). I think perhaps the agency (or a worker working on her messages probably intervened).

Gaspar, I think you asked about Asians at some point. All I will say is to many FSW they ate not that keen on them, not as in keen as Turks but still get tend to go for WM. Some if they are wealthy enough will go for anything ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 04:44:53 PM
Lol I don't take offense,  so don't worry.

A couple of things-
1. One of my wife's friends is the most popular
woman for niko in the agency. She's 36.
Another is an interpreter and popular member and 35.
Yes the agencies recruit young women as it's both were they are the most likely to get more profiles up and what many men want,but no it's not some need to retire deal for women over 26,as the agency will gladly put them up.Many of their target men are older, somewhat sensible, so are looking in an older age range than university students.

2.As far as meeting foreign men, my
Wife would have absolutely  zero reason to not be honest.
I already knew quite well the agency deal, and friends with a prior owner of one, she knew that well.
I wouldn't care even the slightest then, or now.
She's at an international dating agency, for heavens sake the entire point is to meet people.
The fact she hadn't would be of far more concern!!
We joked around easily about all kinds of things,then,and I've known her friends and family now for years, so no, lol she never met a foreigner.

The most popular one mentioned above?
Has met about 7 in a decade if being at the site.
She was seriously interested in a couple,  and was with them awhile,  but ended up not working out.


Perhaps it's niko is slightly out of the way,
But in general the bulk of women listed anywhere, in any FSU city havnt met many, if any foreign men for romance. Thru work is more likely perhaps.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on December 05, 2017, 05:38:54 PM
Quote from: msmob on December 03, 2017, 10:21:05 PM
    AKAIK, there's no charter holidays to Egypt from RU, still  - those going must arrange tours via Belarus - or fly via Turkey - booking direct.


Not sure on details of travel, I'm sure you are spot on,  but when I was in sharm el sheik, it was full of mostly Russian and Ukrainian tourists.

You are probably referring to BEFORE the Russian airliner was blown up.
Before, tons of Russians going to Egypt.
After . . . that's when the tour operators mostly stopped as Moby said.

I took a tour from Ukraine to Egypt back in 2009 or so.  Glad I got that under my belt, as I likely won't go back again.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 06:28:47 PM
Yes, it was prior to that.

At any rate ruling out people from profile, vk, odno, mamba travel photos before contacting them seems a tad over sensitive.
No one loses a limb if the initiated  conversation reveals she's just in the dating scene for travel.

Thailand was a popular destination as well?, travel photos more often than not just mean  she traveled.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 06, 2017, 12:05:25 AM
Trench, the only 'fool' may well be YOU!

My younger sister wasn't THAT academic - but has always been diligent- and went into a career in the legal  profession. She chose - LONG ago - to follow that path over settling down and having kids - preferring to be a kind aunt to her nieces. Her fellow Uni students - with whom she shared accommodation - and are still close friends - have mostly gone on to have careers - like Vets, Doctors and managed to have kids.

From a FSU  woman's perspective - according to my former Wife - coming to the west 'opened her eyes' to the possibility that the society she grew up in ( the man provides, etc) now seems flawed ..she now has her own business, provides for herself, etc., Is she a 'feminist'? - no way.

Moby, you can't nearly double the workforce & there be no affect on society. Yes some women will be able to have teir cake and eat it but the more women that become career women the leas they will be able to do this. Have a look at graphs for income publushed recently for the current generation they are earning far less than there equivalents (their parents) in the 60s, 70s & 80s - cost of buying a home has gone trough the roof too so earning less to afford housing. It's the have it all culture of women that is meaning far more in western society are losing out. It sounds all lovely that specific cases of this or tat woman have been liberated and become absolutely fabulous. Reality is for fewer & fewer women this is the case they toil away day after day in mediocre low paid first step 'career' jobs either that are dressed up with a fancy title to make them feel the part or they dress it up themselves. The guys are often in the same mind numbing numbers, poorly paid or have fallen out off the rat race. Hell even the papers back me up on this one like that article link I shared to Gaspar that stated a lot of blue collar guys are passed over by blue collar girls as they are seen as not good enough and even a fair amount of wealthy men aren't. Look what happened with you and your wife Moby, essentially she got all of that which you stated and you became not good enough. Do you think Russian society would allow that? No she admits that herself - she would have not outgrown you if you chose to live in Russia. She would still be looking up to you as the breadwinner and would know nothing of what she could get in the west. You made the mistake of letting her get on/get too familiar with how things are in the west which is why you in the end got returned to go on the FSU dating game.

We in the west are programmed with relentless propaganda promoting feminist values and we rarely realise it. We think that is the way society should be tat we are open and liberated when at the end of the day it is just socoal conditioning of  the lower orders. Just look at how feminist content pops up every so often on BBC news, it influences society and guides how it wants us all to act and think - to our benefit I think not.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 06, 2017, 07:50:59 AM
TC-
Women have been a huge part of the work force in FSU culture for decades.
I know  many women there supporting their husbands or carrying an equal load of financial family matters. My wife would certainly support us if I wasn't working.
(She has a career and education easily transferable to in demand and decent pay here, and worked here prior)

 That doesn't dispute your claims of the job market being less than the available employees, but it does show how most *blue collar* FSU women live, and think.

 On your thoughts on women entering the labor force in the west, the unemployement rate in western countries ,industrialized nbations fluctuates with economy and changes in industry from ag, to tech, etc  far more than it has over those social changes?

In Asia where women have long been a huge part if the industrial and ag. work force
The unemployement rate is seldom different, or in many cases lower than in the west?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by
_unemployment_rate#/media/File%3AUnemployment
_rate_map_of_the_world_(ILO).svg

Perhaps you have a point as the number of available workers in any  given trade vs the amount needed has to balance,  but you seem to have overlooked other factors, such as -
one person having the *earning/purchasing potential * for 2 people aspect of economy versus each individual having that potential. Yes they may both make less but spend the same or more?

I believe it to be a bit more complex than *feminism has taken jobs" lol


 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on December 06, 2017, 08:28:51 AM
Look what happened with you and your wife Moby, essentially she got all of that which you stated and you became not good enough. Do you think Russian society would allow that? No she admits that herself - she would have not outgrown you if you chose to live in Russia. She would still be looking up to you as the breadwinner and would know nothing of what she could get in the west. You made the mistake of letting her get on/get too familiar with how things are in the west which is why you in the end got returned to go on the FSU dating game.

 :o Shots fired.

We in the west are programmed with relentless propaganda promoting feminist values and we rarely realise it. We think that is the way society should be tat we are open and liberated when at the end of the day it is just socoal conditioning of  the lower orders. Just look at how feminist content pops up every so often on BBC news, it influences society and guides how it wants us all to act and think - to our benefit I think not.

I don't see why it's anything new. :popcorn: Fight for female rights and participation has always swung from one extreme to the other throughout history. There was a time when men could have as many wives as they could financially take care of  ;D and no woman would bat an eyelid  :P
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 06, 2017, 09:02:08 AM
Some cultures are still somewhat that way?

For myself I'm glad my wife is *westernized* and assimilated easily.
She is certainly far far from a feminazi, quite conservative,so I think
those type of fears are unfounded and based in inexperience
with FSU women and FSU culture.
They have been in a workforce environment for decades
and often take care of all matters of the household.
  The stereotype of a stay at home ,subservient mother
is not FSU culture, and just the marketing fodder of MOB agencies.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on December 06, 2017, 09:18:50 AM
Kyn you're dead right. Females in the UK, US, etc have been sent on a fools errand. They don't see that by pursuing a career they are scuppering their own boat. They are going all out to provide for themselves - a task that used to be handed to the man. When they get to their late twenties to early thirties they ask themselves 'where are all the good men to choose from?' Meaning guys that have/can provide for themselves. They don't like it that a man would come and sponge of the provision they have made, i.e own property, etc. They seem to not realise that ghd man was supposed to provide this. They have mare life harder for themselves and put themselves into a position where virtually no man is suitable for them. The men left are the ones they knocked out in competition to get the plum job or to get a job. They have unwittingly dug theor own grave and will have to remain in work till retirement.

It's true that many of these women get off on getting carried away with the job. Men can do but tend to see it more as a means to an end of providing the money they need for family/comfort. Women are very easy to lead on and a lot of employers see this and target this aspect. Women love a pat on the back, recognition and an idea of status - basically a facade that they are something special. All of it is meaningless but they just can't grasp the big picture. One day they are going to retire or be laid off - their employer they will find won't care as they thought. The company that told them how it cares for them in their material to its employees will find its a lot of meaningless words. Shortly after moving on they will quickly be forgotten about along with all their years of hard work.

It's unfortunate that the feminist world that offered so much back in the 70s & 80s forward has only served to bugger both sexes up and cause a lot of loniness & misery. Both sexes in the west have been set against each other hacking the cr*p out of each other only for both to end up the losers. We really need to adjust our thinking in the west as society itself is falling apart.


I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights indeed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on December 06, 2017, 09:32:11 AM
There was a time when men could have as many wives as they could financially take care of  ;D and no woman would bat an eyelid  :P



That practice is still acceptable to a number of women. They'd allow themselves to be a mistress although they claim to want their own man. Many women would prefer to share a winner than have sole possession of a loser.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 06, 2017, 11:59:11 AM

I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights indeed.


Indeed.  Plus, it is not accurate.  I suppose Trench is unaware of the fact that most women worked long before all those "libbers" gave them options - as domestic servants (where they also had the added pleasure of being raped by their male employers), in factories, in small businesses.  In 19th century England, 2/3 of women women worked for wages.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on December 06, 2017, 02:53:39 PM
Trench back at it again?  Dude needs to learn how to simplify his thoughts.  Every post he does is 10 rambling sentences.  He seems to like to hear his own voice much more than those who have the actual experience and success in this endeavour.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 06, 2017, 04:36:10 PM
I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights depths indeed.

Try this version...  8)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 06, 2017, 06:51:14 PM

I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights indeed.

I think it is Manny & A Fi  who created this idiot  & are trying to destroy this forum !! ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 06, 2017, 07:19:52 PM


Also Gaspar just to clarify Moby taking issue with my stance on holiday photos.
  :shock: :ROFL:

Not just me, Trench - do try to be accurate.. and take good advice on board...

I did say there are some exceptions such as Turkey & the like, that it is a matter of being subjective that you learn with time. Yes Russians & Ukrainians can be found all over the world but for most FSU folk it is too expensive - their focus is on daily survival not globe trotting. When you visit countries like Ukraine look around you and tune in - you will notice that with some exceptions they are not all that wealthy. If I were looking at a girls photos and she had several of places in the west then I would be cautious, if she didn't have a very high status well paid job then I would be even more cautious. There no absolute hard and fast rules as Jumpers situation shows but by not following the often resounded conceived wisdom of the consensus of members on here nearly all men fall foul, it's just the odd few get real lucky every once in a while I think.

Even more Trench bollox.. you've simply ignored the sensible comments from members FAR more experienced than you.

I know PLENTY of FSU lasses that have been to Italy, Spain, Dominican Republic, Cuba and paid for that holiday of a life-time with their own graft.

It was also pointed out to you that they may indeed have been trips paid for by guys with whom they may actually have been in a LTR or even with their former husbands - but you chose to 'overlook' those pertinent points in your 'advise'  ..

Then again, the trip may have been paid for by 'winners' :sick/vomit:

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 06, 2017, 07:23:47 PM

I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights indeed.

Oh, I don't know - the post that followed yours wasn't far behind..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on December 07, 2017, 09:34:36 AM
I think it is Manny & A Fi  who created this idiot  & are trying to destroy this forum !! ;D


No. Actually that would be you. They banned your butt from the site knowing full well you'd come here. As for TC, he's definitely prone to be a fool on the hill, but he had single-handedly increased the board's traffic. For every post he makes, his minions and followers, like you and that walking infectious disease, tags 10-15 posts thereafter.


At least TC composes his own thoughts when he post/s, abominable as some of them may be, unlike your predictable copy/paste stupidity.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 07, 2017, 09:59:18 AM

 For every post he makes, his minions and followers, like you and that walking infectious disease, tags 10-15 posts thereafter.


At least TC composes his own thoughts when he post/s, abominable as some of them may be, unlike your predictable copy/paste stupidity.

Have you been on the pop, while missing the mrs, GCB?

'Thoughts'? - more like a pubescent man-child....    That you might even 'support' him does you 'credit'   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on December 07, 2017, 02:22:02 PM
Have you been on the pop, while missing the mrs, GCB?

'Thoughts'? - more like a pubescent man-child....    That you might even 'support' him does you 'credit'


 :ROFL:


See what I mean? But by now I'm sure you caught the drip, ooppps, drift. POP and all that jazz...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 07, 2017, 08:19:49 PM
Well that escalated quickly...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 07, 2017, 11:12:22 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 09, 2017, 02:26:20 PM
I do make a lot of classic errors.  I rambled a lot because i was excited.  What I was saying is that the dating sites are fun.  I know that some are scammers, but it's fun to learn how they work.  I'm not at the point of getting any attachment to any of them (this is like day 4) so maybe we'll talk about how fun getting catfished is after a few months. 

As far as the other cities, can you help me out here.  What exactly are you saying?  I grew up cold war, Russia scares me a little, but if you're saying that those larger cities in the interior are great for this, please help me, post some links and such for me to read up on please!

I also watched the loveme movie with David Arquette ... the movie movie.  not the one Trenchcoat referenced (more documentary)  I'll watch it though.

and I'm not talking about ever doing the PPL thing.  That's just crazy. I'm just talking about girls on the sites.   

Gaspar, here's the link to the You tube video I was talking about, its a guy that follows a tour and is allowed to video it and document it, interview the guys and girls involved. Its nice and short and good for a laugh, I don't think this group is running tours anymore though. The video is good as I think it shows you do get some serious women on the tours and some of the guys that turn up aren't always the best.

The Desperate Western Men Hunting For Wives In Ukraine
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wW7c58nMI4&t=237s

Now I'm not suggesting tours are the way to go, they can be bad places to look for a sincere girl. I think though this video gives an good insight into the dating scene out there in general from both perspectives, I think you'll get a pretty varied lot through dating websites even if it is a less dodgy place to look.

ps. if you tube link doesn't work just pop in the title in you tube search and it should come up.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 09, 2017, 11:31:40 PM

Nah...not with one too many hen plucking.

No feathers were ruffled - let alone plucked - dream on

Heck, even prompted Dan to write a post dedicated only to him.

Are you so dense to recognise to whom to are referring to, now  .... many years later ?...



Lot's of hatchets buried - since then

Get over yourself, wee maun






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 10, 2017, 08:37:05 AM
Loved the video Trench.  However dated it is, it's odd to see the duallity of everything said.  I especially liked the scene with the interpreter and the guy told to sing Hotel California.  LOL, that was amazing. 

I had a question about something that seems to be a theme from GQBlues and hinted at by jumper.  FSUW here in the USA that are looking.

Are there resources dedicated to accessing them?  I mean I know match.com and all that, but it's such a grind. 

Thanks!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 10, 2017, 08:55:32 AM
Loved the video Trench.  However dated it is, it's odd to see the duallity of everything said.  I especially liked the scene with the interpreter and the guy told to sing Hotel California.  LOL, that was amazing. 

I had a question about something that seems to be a theme from GQBlues and hinted at by jumper.  FSUW here in the USA that are looking.

Are there resources dedicated to accessing them?  I mean I know match.com and all that, but it's such a grind. 

Thanks!

I know it is here too, lol. Generally I think the FSW found on Match/already here are looking to trade up. You might strike it lucky and find one that is genuinely into you/had a bad experience with the bloke she got with. In general though I view them as the bad girls, the immigration whores, etc.

I know Elena's Models (EM) tends to have a fair few of them, I'm not sure off other sites though.

Yeah that's a pretty funny vid ain't it. I thought the girl in the brown top in Nikolaev seemed quite sincerely genuine so goes to show some genuine women turn up. I also thing the young slightly drunk local dude in the awful light green shirt is correct a lot of the women out there want stuff (material goods. i.e clothes). The guys out there cannot hope to buy these goods for these hotties and so many look to foreign dating as their only option. If you're lucky you may get one who isn't and/or who is into you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 10, 2017, 03:08:10 PM
Another example of Trench's hilarious viewpoints ..

ANYONE taking this guys 'advice' ,,, based on his 'experience' of FSU W ....good luck  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 26, 2017, 04:06:47 PM
That said a woman with a child will normally greet a WM warmly with legs wide open. They will unlikely get any other guy visit them so they can't afford to be fussy. Local guys see them as only fit for a good lay anyway


In addition to the vulgarity, how do you know this to be a fact?  From the vast numbers of married FSUW you dated?  From your (2?) weeks on the ground speaking to these women and the men who "lay" them?


There are at least two FSUW posting here who had children when they married WM.  Ask them if they would "normally greet a WM warmly with legs wide open".
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 12:00:39 AM
No, you didnít figure out FSU society.

If life is so horrible, an FSUW can work abroad, as millions of Ukrainians do. Many of the countries in which they work, such as Poland, Spain, Portugal, and Ireland, offer them paths to citizenship. You assume women are trapped and WM are their sole means of leaving the FSU. That may have been true 20 years ago, but it hasnít been for a long time.

Life in Russia is not difficult for most single mothers.

Most work in Poland illegally, despite the recent travel agreementioned with Ukraine it did not include right to work. Some may go to these countries and get in either by getting with a local guy or meeting immigration requirements. Few will be able to meet these immigration requirements though. It's well known knowledge the plight of the single mother in the FSU.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 12:20:09 AM
No, you are wrong. Anyone who is connected to the Ukrainian community knows this. Both Spain and Portugal, for example, have had at least one amnesty that I know of for illegal immigrants, with a path to citizenship. I know several Ukrainians in Ireland who were there illegally but obtained citizenship. One, when discovered, was told to apply for residency and she would be on the path to citizenship. She asked if her husband could join her. She was asked if he ďlooks like youĒ (i.e. white) and when she answered affirmatively, they said no problem. Today, both she and her husband are Irish citizens.

Anyone who has lived in Poland for 3 years, has a stable income, and can speak Polish is eligible for Polish citizenship. In addition, Ukrainians with Polish ancestry are eligible to obtain a Polish passport. Romania was giving any Ukrainian who applied a passport for years.

Over 1 in 10 Ukrainians hold a foreign passport. They are not trapped in the country, as you suggest.
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 12:24:43 AM
It's well known knowledge the plight of the single mother in the FSU.

What, exactly, is that plight?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 01:19:13 AM
No, you are wrong. Anyone who is connected to the Ukrainian community knows this. Both Spain and Portugal, for example, have had at least one amnesty that I know of for illegal immigrants, with a path to citizenship. I know several Ukrainians in Ireland who were there illegally but obtained citizenship. One, when discovered, was told to apply for residency and she would be on the path to citizenship. She asked if her husband could join her. She was asked if he ďlooks like youĒ (i.e. white) and when she answered affirmatively, they said no problem. Today, both she and her husband are Irish citizens.

Anyone who has lived in Poland for 3 years, has a stable income, and can speak Polish is eligible for Polish citizenship. In addition, Ukrainians with Polish ancestry are eligible to obtain a Polish passport. Romania was giving any Ukrainian who applied a passport for years.

Over 1 in 10 Ukrainians hold a foreign passport. They are not trapped in the country, as you suggest.

And Russians?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 01:37:50 AM
They also arenít trapped in Russia. Life there is fairly stable. A lot of Russians who move abroad return to Russia.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2017, 03:06:45 AM

A good husband knows how to communicate with his wife and take care of her needs.

You know BillyB - you can carry on thinking being good at dating means being a good husband...'coz he 'communicates'...

I know plenty of quiet guys who are happily married to their (attractive ) woman...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2017, 04:58:37 AM
Most work in Poland illegally, despite the recent travel agreementioned with Ukraine it did not include right to work. Some may go to these countries and get in either by getting with a local guy or meeting immigration requirements. Few will be able to meet these immigration requirements though. It's well known knowledge the plight of the single mother in the FSU.

... pray do tell where you learnt this latest piece of Trench " I read it on the net - so it must be true" ?

Really, most posts of yours should carry a "I'm an expert on posting nonsense", warning

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on December 27, 2017, 05:40:50 AM
I know plenty of quiet guys who are happily married to their (attractive ) woman...

Quiet as in socially (introvert)? Or were you trying to imply a quiet character inside and out? Just a tad confused.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2017, 05:43:57 AM
Quiet as in socially (introvert)? Or were you trying to imply a quiet character inside and out? Just a tad confused.

My 'bad' - not extrovert ...just quietly confident
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on December 27, 2017, 05:46:13 AM
My 'bad' - not extrovert ...just quietly confident

Ah like a gentleman :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 10:30:03 AM
Well here are a couple of reports on the issues:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28191326

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27422743


It shows that some do get caught/refused and sent back and that it is becoming a real burden for the EU. Its one of the main reasons we left the EU since the EU have been far too slow to react and effectively deal with this situation. Hungary has done a sterling job of countering EU ineptness and shortsightedness but the EU are intent on all of its nations being overwhelmed by illegal immigrants so that life becomes a misery for all. By leaving the EU we will steadily be able to get to grips with this problem. Sure a few will gain citizenship but European countries can only accommodate so many, as these articles show many will be turned back. Deluding ourselves that Ukraine & Russia are anything but poor nations with poor people living their lives does not alter the situation. Many that do become refugees do not qualify for any benefits in the European countries they get into, they have to try and get any work they can if they can, if they can't they have a big problem. Even the first girl I met from Mariupol told me she did not want to become a refugee - it is not seen as admirable for them even living a somewhat poor lifestyle. For sure some are proud of who they are and where they live even if it is a life of poverty and drudgery, a refugee lifestyle is seen as worse as at least their lifestyle is stably poor rather than totally uncertain. They are looking for a direct path to citizenship not an uncertain journey with the hope of an administrative circumstance specific loophole in a European nation. I think Ukraine would soon empty of almost all people if immigration to a EU nation was really that easy. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2017, 10:52:01 AM
Poor Trench,

Your 'evidence' is 3 year old news ..since when the EU has granted visa free travel within Schengen  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 01:42:31 PM
Poor Trench,

Your 'evidence' is 3 year old news ..since when the EU has granted visa free travel within Schengen  :ROFL:

One of the reports is three years old the other is this year. Free travel within schengen has nothing to do with this. This is about those coming to live & work illegally within the EU. Keep up Mobers.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 01:54:16 PM
I mean are you telling me that these girls in the FSU live comfortably and contently where they are even though by what you say could apparently move to an EU nation under a immigration system where they are accepted in a back door manner can earn more though apparently live similar lifestyle to back home and have access to many more guys so not have to wait for all these guys that are messaging them to visit them but chose to stay put and do it that way anyway even though they have far fewer guys to choose from. Hmmn yeah sure that makes sense :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2017, 02:09:18 PM
One of the reports is three years old the other is this year. Free travel within schengen has nothing to do with this. This is about those coming to live & work illegally within the EU. Keep up Mobers.

So, we can dispense with the three-year old links - as Ukrainians are free to travel within the Schengen zone, right ?

Does 'keeping up' involve pointing out BOTH articles were indeed  three years old ?

Perhaps, before 'banging heads' a little fact checking might be in order ...?

Can you get ANYTHING, right ? ;)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 02:26:30 PM
So, we can dispense with the three-year old links - as Ukrainians are free to travel within the Schengen zone, right ?

Does 'keeping up' involve pointing out BOTH articles were indeed  three years old ?

Perhaps, before 'banging heads' a little fact checking might be in order ...?

Can you get ANYTHING, right ? ;)

Yet you fail to answer the statement above tat shows the absurdity of what you are saying. The above is what you are saying isnt it? That they stay put depite being able to get what they want through back door immigration. Even with all the problems of inflation, conflict in the east, employment problems, problems with local men, problems with WM visiting, unpleasant areas where they live, etc. Answer me that one?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 02:43:45 PM
You assume everyone wants to live exactly as you do, and that emigration, rather than a happy family life, is why they are looking abroad.  That is the first fault in almost all that you post.  It permeates your thinking, and is partly why I don't think you will be successful in this endeavor.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2017, 03:28:03 PM
Yet you fail to answer the statement above tat shows the absurdity of what you are saying.

Deflecting from the repeated lack of evidence' now ?

Please..... show us something RECENT to back up your nonsense contention..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 03:41:31 PM
You assume everyone wants to live exactly as you do, and that emigration, rather than a happy family life, is why they are looking abroad.  That is the first fault in almost all that you post.  It permeates your thinking, and is partly why I don't think you will be successful in this endeavor.

I want a happy family life too. All I'm saying to Moby is that theoretically a girl stands a better chance of finding a western man in the west. I really don't think that she would not just travel to the west to increase her odds if it was that easy to do so. The girl I last met earned around $/£100-150 a month in retail. The first girl I met worked in a travel agency and I think earned similar money, well put it this way she needed me to pay for her train travel & hotel room for the week. Now if it was really that easy to move to the west and meet more guys and earn more money by the back door why wouldn't they do it. After all the end game for many western guys they meet is that they will move to the west anyway. Sure I think the girls I met wanted a happy family life but I don't think back door immigration was really a possibility for them. I think a lot of the women want out of their dreary lives in addition to wanting a happy family life. Where they are particularly if they have a child offers little happy family life or comfortable living. Single mothers out there will take any path to get to the happy family life and comfortable living they can hence my earlier phrase.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 03:45:55 PM
 :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:


You don't get it.  They are not looking for life abroad solely to find a better material life.  They are not moving to Western countries on their own to find a man.  Most who move abroad are already married, or have been married, and are not working abroad to find a man. 


Why do you assume their lives are "dreary"?  And what, exactly, is "dreary"?  The inability to buy cheap goods, such as Tommy Hilfiger shirts?  The inability to buy a cheap perfume?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 04:28:06 PM
:wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:


You don't get it.  They are not looking for life abroad solely to find a better material life.  They are not moving to Western countries on their own to find a man.  Most who move abroad are already married, or have been married, and are not working abroad to find a man. 


Why do you assume their lives are "dreary"?  And what, exactly, is "dreary"?  The inability to buy cheap goods, such as Tommy Hilfiger shirts?  The inability to buy a cheap perfume?

Tommy Hilfinger shirts are not cheap, they cost several times the cost of a normal shirt and once on you wouldn't know the difference. One of the things that narks me is having to trawl through having to buy all this consumer cr*p that I don't really give a toss about but apparently is needed in dating FSW.

What I am saying is that many FSW aren't doing it for a better material life but they see it as in with a happy family life. Some women I think us western men need to be dubious off. The last girl I was with for instance wanted me to go through all the hassle of getting her a visa so she could come to the UK. Yet it would have been way easier for us to meet anywhere in Ukraine even in most of Europe yet she refused that point blank, does that sound like a girl intent on a happy family life to you?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 04:36:42 PM
Tommy Hilfiger polos are, on average, $50. Thatís cheap.

Perhaps the girl wanted to see how you live in order to determine if youíre a serious man.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 05:05:23 PM
Tommy Hilfiger polos are, on average, $50. Thatís cheap.

Perhaps the girl wanted to see how you live in order to determine if youíre a serious man.

For you maybe but for many guys in the UK that is half a day's wages, now on its own that is not a problem but buy a few shirts, shorts, trousers of that sort of brand and it all adds up and soon you've spent a week maybe two weeks wages. The way she shopped is like you do that nearly every day, I cannot afford to see all my wages just go on clothing alone I have other bills and stuff to buy. Besides I see no point in spending $50 on a polo shirt when you could by one for $10 elsewhere in an everday wear shop or even 3 polo shirts for $50. What exactly is this polo shirt for $50 supposed to do for me? Have girls dropping to their knees around me at the sheer marvellousness of seeing me in it! It just sheer stupidity.

See how I live? I live like most people in the UK in a bog standard house. Its terrace and not large, yes I own it and you could bring up a family in it but while it is not necessarily cramped its stuck within a lot of other terrace houses. So am I rich, by many Ukrainian standards maybe, even by some very poor people in the UK but generally no I am not. So if she is after a rich man she would be severely disappointed by me and many guys in the UK, similar situation in the US I hear from guys on here, most are not at all wealthy. Yet sounds like she needs to see that I am wealthy or I am not 'serious' lol - well that's a interesting way of putting it and yet she is just looking for happy family life? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 05:11:27 PM
You chose to buy that girl clothing.  She wasn't taking you to Dolce & Gabbana, or Valentino, she took you to a cheaper end clothier.  The amount you agreed to spend is on you, not her.  She didn't know if that was a significant amount for you. 


As for how you live, I don't mean materially.  I mean the rhythms of your life, and how she would fit into them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 05:27:18 PM
You chose to buy that girl clothing.  She wasn't taking you to Dolce & Gabbana, or Valentino, she took you to a cheaper end clothier.  The amount you agreed to spend is on you, not her.  She didn't know if that was a significant amount for you. 


As for how you live, I don't mean materially.  I mean the rhythms of your life, and how she would fit into them.

Yeah but surely it is reasonable for the guy to want to see her for more than just two weeks before that bridge is crossed? I mean demanding it and blocking any further meeting to get to know each other better is just creating a problem/hurdle/block in the relationship call it what you will.

Theoretically yes I agreed, I thought it would make her happy and would be content but she just wanted more and more all the time despite my protests. I should have put my foot down more firmly I know that now, I wanted to satisfy both of us but buying her stuff just damaged our relationship greatly I feel. Most of the shops that were around was selling that sort of price clothing it wasn't really the sort of place where there was a lot of reasonable price clothing stores. There was one or two but despite me liking the dresses in there she passed over these (not just for the price either). I get the impression she would tend towards the designer label stuff quite a lot and for me I would find this a pain, a nice dress to me is a nice dress it can be bought quite cheaply. Again like said before I think many FSW think WM are made of money and it grows on tree's. She should have gotten the idea from my protests that I did not really want to go in these designer label shops but I think she didn't care at all. Just seems callous to me.

I isn't it possible to just meet someone on this venture get on well and be into each other and enjoy being in a relationship together without all this weirdness of needing to go on bizarre shopping sprees.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 05:34:30 PM
Yeah but surely it is reasonable for the guy to want to see her for more than just two weeks before that bridge is crossed? I mean demanding it and blocking any further meeting to get to know each other better is just creating a problem/hurdle/block in the relationship call it what you will.


Or is it telling her she is not important enough to you to share your life with her?  She may have taken your refusal as evidence you are not serious about her.  All she was to you was a roll in hay.

Quote
Theoretically yes I agreed, I thought it would make her happy and would be content but she just wanted more and more all the time despite my protests. I should have put my foot down more firmly I know that now, I wanted to satisfy both of us but buying her stuff just damaged our relationship greatly I feel.


If this damaged your relationship, then you didn't have a relationship to begin with.  Just a mercantile exchange.


Quote
Most of the shops that were around was selling that sort of price clothing it wasn't really the sort of place where there was a lot of reasonable price clothing stores. There was one or two but despite me liking the dresses in there she passed over these (not just for the price either). I get the impression she would tend towards the designer label stuff quite a lot and for me I would find this a pain, a nice dress to me is a nice dress it can be bought quite cheaply. Again like said before I think many FSW think WM are made of money and it grows on tree's. She should have gotten the idea from my protests that I did not really want to go in these designer label shops but I think she didn't care at all. Just seems callous to me.


You were weak.

Quote
I isn't it possible to just meet someone on this venture get on well and be into each other and enjoy being in a relationship together without all this weirdness of needing to go on bizarre shopping sprees.


I am fairly certain the vast majority of men here who married did not go on shopping sprees.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 05:56:20 PM

Or is it telling her she is not important enough to you to share your life with her?  She may have taken your refusal as evidence you are not serious about her.  All she was to you was a roll in hay.


If this damaged your relationship, then you didn't have a relationship to begin with.  Just a mercantile exchange.



You were weak.


I am fairly certain the vast majority of men here who married did not go on shopping sprees.

Yes I accept that I was weak as I should have just rejected all of the clothes shopping advances. I know to do that now but at the time I made the mistake of thinking it would not be a continuous problem if I just bought her a few things. I was wrong.

I would like to think our relationship was not just a mercantile exchange, I think though that it felt like that the more I gave into her shopping habits, again this was a mistake which damaged our relationship or at least it felt like that from my perspective - I wanted to spend time with her on her hobbies and interests and talk to her to get to know her not stand around all day in clothes shops.

There may have been something in the sharing my life with her, I understand that she did not want to with me until she had seen mine because if my life did not suit the fall out would be embarrassing to her, talk where she lives, etc. She failed to see it from my perspective though that we are not ready to for that stage yet we need to get to know each other better. It was not the case of her being a roll in the hay for me, I am out after a serious relationship, a happy family. For me her doing her shopping spree showed me she was more interested in that than looking to be with me in a serious family relationship. I mean why would you want to keep peeing off the guy you are with if he is protesting about your clothes buying if you want a serious family relationship?

I've no doubt many of the guys on here did not do shopping sprees, I made an error of judgement I will not be making again. The fact that she will not compromise to meet up again is not a great place to be really I mean getting a visa for the UK is a serious pain in the ass.

But yes I guess its possible that we distrust and misunderstand each other so much from different perspectives and have great difficulty understanding each other. I may have misunderstood that his is what she wanted and the problems of me visiting her but how am I supposed to know. She I think was overzealous in distrusting me and not understanding my issue with being told she did not want me to visit first that I would take that as an insincere intention of having dubious motives for taking up this stance. Again how an I supposed to know? I'm a foreign guy and I know nothing of the intricate workings of how life is over there. I mean couldn't she see it from my perspective at all, I tried to tell her my perspective on it even if it did seem distrustful I thought at least she would discuss it with me. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 09:16:55 PM
You didn't have a relationship.

You were sleeping with her, but were not at the stage where she could come and visit you?  So what role did she, exactly, play in your heart?  It seems to me none.  You weren't even willing to attempt to obtain a visa for her because it is a "PITA".  Yup, seems to me like a relationship made in heaven.

You are not supposed to "know".  You are supposed to feel it in your heart.  The fact you didn't, and still regret spending money, suggests to me you never had strong feelings for her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 12:24:39 AM
You didn't have a relationship.


You were sleeping with her, but were not at the stage where she could come and visit you?  So what role did she, exactly, play in your heart?  It seems to me none.  You weren't even willing to attempt to obtain a visa for here because it is a "PITA".  Yup, seems to me like a relationship made in heaven.


You are not supposed to "know".  You are supposed to feel it in your heart.  The fact you didn't, and still regret spending money, suggests to me you never had strong feelings for her.

I don't regret spending money but I do see the clothes shopping as getting in the way and ending up as something we could have done without at least the extent it became. There was no happy medium on that one. I'm guessing that she was not enough into me to agree to another visit elsewhere even if she thought I was just doing it for the sex so it works both ways. A girl who truely loved someone would agree to it even if she was dubious of that being the reason the guy wanted to meet up again. It isn't it's to get to know her better to have a relationship as you put it which we could have been doing were it not for her strolling off into shops all the time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 12:47:07 AM
I don't regret spending money but I do see the clothes shopping as getting in the way and ending up as something we could have done without at least the extent it became. There was no happy medium on that one. I'm guessing that she was not enough into me to agree to another visit elsewhere even if she thought I was just doing it for the sex so it works both ways. A girl who truely loved someone would agree to it even if she was dubious of that being the reason the guy wanted to meet up again. It isn't it's to get to know her better to have a relationship as you put it which we could have been doing were it not for her strolling off into shops all the time.

OMG

Trench, do you ever pause to think what you write before hitting 'post' ?

1/ You took a plane to meet someone
2/ You paid for a holiday in a third country
3/ She wanted to see how you lived - which would have been entirely possible- if she had waited to prove a durable relationship

Love never came into it - you 'resented' her 'tests of your seriousness' and you should have learnt a lesson about dating a young FSU W

You didn't and don't 'get it' and you're arguing with a FSU W...  about FSU W ..  You are getting golden help - you refuse to see it.

Please start absorbing and stop offering 'advice' to newbies - when you are so demonstrably clueless - despite 'hints'




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 28, 2017, 01:01:57 AM
Iím not a FSUW. But I do know a number of them, most of them married to FSUM, and a slight majority live in the FSU, with zero desire to leave. Including a number of single mothers.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 01:08:29 AM
OMG

Trench, do you ever pause to think what you write before hitting 'post' ?

1/ You took a plane to meet someone
2/ You paid for a holiday in a third country
3/ She wanted to see how you lived - which would have been entirely possible- if she had waited to prove a durable relationship

Love never came into it - you 'resented' her 'tests of your seriousness' and you should have learnt a lesson about dating a young FSU W

You didn't and don't 'get it' and you're arguing with a FSU W...  about FSU W ..  You are getting golden help - you refuse to see it.

Please start absorbing and stop offering 'advice' to newbies - when you are so demonstrably clueless - despite 'hints'

I agree entirely withappy the 1, 2 & 3 points that you state so where exactly do we differ? I both went on plane to meet her and agreed to holiday with her I enjoyed it despite the over the top shopping trips. So I met at least two of her tests I showed up and showed commitment and a wish to spend time with her. The third I would have met had we fit to know each other more so at the right time yes. I don't resent doing any of this nor wish to take it back. I think I made mistakes when J was with her and I think she should have thought what was more important to her having marriage & family of shopping. I think resent would be too strong a word to my feelings about her shopping more displeased that she disregarded my position on the subject. I appreciate Boethius is enlightening me that I might have got this girl wrong but I still am unsure on it. It's just a bizarre situated mean whatever happened to just dating and getting to know & be with each other.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on December 28, 2017, 01:49:38 AM
Trench all these concerns are over anyway, now you're concentrating on women your own age, but I think you should be getting on skype soon as the woman I'm chatting with said she would never meet a man who she didn't have a good connection with online first. If you have only been chatting with young women who aren't established in life, I think you will have an eye opening experience. I think you're passing up your greatest asset by not chatting with women right now. Women your age are an entirely different kettle of fish. You're probably going to be dealing with women who are divorced and have seen the worse of what can occur in a  relationship, they will be cautious, it might take months online to be comfortable with you and open up.
Mine isn't out shopping today..... She woke at 6am and baked all morning, now she's at a fund raiser for the local orphanage, that pretty much sums up her selfless personality and the way she was raised. She couldn't care less for designer clothes and material possessions, she'd probably donate them to the needy : )
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 02:52:38 AM
Iím not a FSUW. But I do know a number of them, most of them married to FSUM, and a slight majority live in the FSU, with zero desire to leave. Including a number of single mothers.

Point taken re your status..!

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on December 28, 2017, 03:29:34 AM
I mean getting a visa for the UK is a serious pain in the ass.


such bullshit, I took Tanya to London to do some Christmas shopping, it took the travelagency 7 days to obtain a Visa for her and the cost was about $150.
one bank statement and a deceleration of employment was all that was needed. and taadaaaa and she got her visitor visa.

Now I know, 150 bucks are way to much for you to spend on something like this, that is most likely the reason you say its a pain in the ass...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 06:04:44 AM
such bullshit, I took Tanya to London to do some Christmas shopping, it took the travelagency 7 days to obtain a Visa for her and the cost was about $150.
one bank statement and a deceleration of employment was all that was needed. and taadaaaa and she got her visitor visa.

Now I know, 150 bucks are way to much for you to spend on something like this, that is most likely the reason you say its a pain in the ass...

Her bank statement & declaration of employment or yours? The girl I was last with did not have a bank account and her job was very low pay, it also like many Ukrainians apparently not on the record for tax purposes - i.e the black economy. So it would be down to me to apply with my financial background for her.

Anyway, she quickly started looking for another guy online when the situation came to loggerheads of whether I visit her or she me. Her dating profile started showing activity on a daily basis and she didn't even tell me. I do not take that as a good sign. It tells me she would easily go behind my back be deceitful and she is not that into me.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 06:13:45 AM
Trench all these concerns are over anyway, now you're concentrating on women your own age, but I think you should be getting on skype soon as the woman I'm chatting with said she would never meet a man who she didn't have a good connection with online first. If you have only been chatting with young women who aren't established in life, I think you will have an eye opening experience. I think you're passing up your greatest asset by not chatting with women right now. Women your age are an entirely different kettle of fish. You're probably going to be dealing with women who are divorced and have seen the worse of what can occur in a  relationship, they will be cautious, it might take months online to be comfortable with you and open up.
Mine isn't out shopping today..... She woke at 6am and baked all morning, now she's at a fund raiser for the local orphanage, that pretty much sums up her selfless personality and the way she was raised. She couldn't care less for designer clothes and material possessions, she'd probably donate them to the needy : )

Thanks Davo well according to the guys on here a woman will often meet up with a foreign guy if in her city as it is covenient for her to do so. Note meet up rather than string of dates though that may come. I think I need to see other women to see how I feel. A materialistic one is a real pain in the bum. It's nice to hear your story of this woman Davo as it shows they are not all like that. My concern with the one I had is that her shopping habits would be a constant problem if she came over here. I still kind of like her even with all her issues but there may be a better fit out there for me and yes one who displays better values like you have seems more a preferably situation to be in :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on December 28, 2017, 06:23:45 AM
Her bank statement & declaration of employment or yours? The girl I was last with did not have a bank account and her job was very low pay, it also like many Ukrainians apparently not on the record for tax purposes - i.e the black economy. So it would be down to me to apply with my financial background for her.

Anyway, she quickly started looking for another guy online when the situation came to loggerheads of whether I visit her or she me. Her dating profile started showing activity on a daily basis and she didn't even tell me. I do not take that as a good sign. It tells me she would easily go behind my back be deceitful and she is not that into me.
so........ you mean your finances are so bad you cant even support a woman coming to visit?
then, how do you intend to take care of a woman if she decides to move in with you?
All your cheap comments about finances is starting to clear up a bit here, and the reason why you want her to start working day 1 and take care of herself..

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 07:10:20 AM
so........ you mean your finances are so bad you cant even support a woman coming to visit?
then, how do you intend to take care of a woman if she decides to move in with you?
All your cheap comments about finances is starting to clear up a bit here, and the reason why you want her to start working day 1 and take care of herself..
No my finances are fine but the whole process is a lot of form filling and paperwork on my side. It's just far easier for me to jump on a plane and visit her in Ukraine all visa free. I don't see why there has to be such an ordeal about it all.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Maxx2 on December 28, 2017, 08:25:25 AM
so........ you mean your finances are so bad you cant even support a woman coming to visit?
then, how do you intend to take care of a woman if she decides to move in with you?
All your cheap comments about finances is starting to clear up a bit here, and the reason why you want her to start working day 1 and take care of herself..


Just put her to work as a cashier at the local liquor store and perhaps a job cleaning office buildings at 4 AM. That would work. These are Rooska women. They are the human version of the honey badger. Honey badgers don't care and neither would they.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 28, 2017, 12:14:06 PM
No my finances are fine but the whole process is a lot of form filling and paperwork on my side. It's just far easier for me to jump on a plane and visit her in Ukraine all visa free. I don't see why there has to be such an ordeal about it all.


So she wasn't important enough to you to fill out a bit of paperwork. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 12:44:18 PM
I wish to 'defend' Trench ! :o

The UK visa path for a young, unemployed and property-less  FSU W is pretty hopeless

To get a visa Trench would need to put money into her account - regularly - and guarantee her return - showing more than enough funds to look after her and keep her

He would not have got the lass in - unless she built up funds over - say 6 months..AND they showed a durable relationship



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 01:49:31 PM
I wish to 'defend' Trench ! :o

The UK visa path for a young, unemployed and property-less  FSU W is pretty hopeless

To get a visa Trench would need to put money into her account - regularly - and guarantee her return - showing more than enough funds to look after her and keep her

He would not have got the lass in - unless she built up funds over - say 6 months..AND they showed a durable relationship
:shock: Wow! Mobers it really is Christmas :D I never thought I would see the day when you would come to my defense on this forum :D I had dreamed and hoped but finally this day is here :clapping: When I read first line I thought it was going to be the start of a back handed slap but no you really did come through for me :o I shall treasure this moment always :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 02:22:10 PM
:shock: Wow! Mobers it really is Christmas :D I never thought I would see the day when you would come to my defense on this forum :D I had dreamed and hoped but finally this day is here :clapping: When I read first line I thought it was going to be the start of a back handed slap but no you really did come through for me :o I shall treasure this moment always :D

'Defense' .....?   That is the second time you've used US English spelling / or a US-terminology that NO Brit would use.....

Hmm...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on December 28, 2017, 03:15:14 PM
I wish to 'defend' Trench ! :o

The UK visa path for a young, unemployed and property-less  FSU W is pretty hopeless

To get a visa Trench would need to put money into her account - regularly - and guarantee her return - showing more than enough funds to look after her and keep her

He would not have got the lass in - unless she built up funds over - say 6 months..AND they showed a durable relationship

It's funny the conversation has gone in this direction today. Last week I was expecting to be meeting her at the airport this afternoon. Now all I have planned is a BBQ at a mates and a few beers . Why??? ... Her visa was denied, despite covering all bases except the fact we  hadn't met in  person. I could accept this if that's the reason, but where she failed was infuriating!!!
She has an excellent well paying job by Russian  standards and a letter stating she was required to return to work in 12 days. She had plenty of cash in her bank. She showed she owned property in Russia. Also she has a letter from a girlfriend who worked for my government in Russia and now my country, vouching for her character. She has two children in her care and she showed she had travelled to other countries on her passport.
My embassy in Moscow obviously discovered our secret plan.... She was going to give up her executive job, leave her luxury apartment and abandon her children so she could hide out here and pick up seasonal work as an illegal fruit picker  :wallbash:......
So yes it was denied as she didn't show enough proof that she would return  home, in reality this was probably the strongest aspect of her application. Basically I suspect because  I was going to provide transport and accommodation, we  put our relationship as friends, but never met and it was denied.
So now we are meeting in Indonesia, in several  months and if all goes well Russia several months after that.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 03:27:40 PM
'Defense' .....?   That is the second time you've used US English spelling / or a US-terminology that NO Brit would use.....

Hmm...

I speak UK English my mobile speaks US English. What can I say, I don't always get my way :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 03:39:48 PM
So yes it was denied as she didn't show enough proof that she would return  home, in reality this was probably the strongest aspect of her application. Basically I suspect because  I was going to provide transport and accommodation, we  put our relationship as friends, but never met, it was denied. So now we are meeting in Indonesia in several  months and if all goes well Russia several months after that.

Exactly as you and Mobers demonstrate it can be a real problem. Granted different countries but similar visa systems. I've visited her etc so have that to put forward assuming they accept the evidence I put forward on this. Even then as Moby points out its not an easy task made almost impossible because of her situation. Over time it might be possible to work something out but it's a long shot and no walk in the park. I tried explaining this to her till I was blue I'm the face but she just repeatedly refused to accept it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on December 28, 2017, 04:42:37 PM
It's funny the conversation has gone in this direction today. Last week I was expecting to be meeting her at the airport this afternoon. Now all I have planned is a BBQ at a mates and a few beers . Why??? ... Her visa was denied, despite covering all bases except the fact we  hadn't met in  person. I could accept this if that's the reason, but where she failed was infuriating!!!
She has an excellent well paying job by Russian  standards and a letter stating she was required to return to work in 12 days. She had plenty of cash in her bank. She showed she owned property in Russia. Also she has a letter from a girlfriend who worked for my government in Russia and now my country, vouching for her character. She has two children in her care and she showed she had travelled to other countries on her passport.
My embassy in Moscow obviously discovered our secret plan.... She was going to give up her executive job, leave her luxury apartment and abandon her children so she could hide out here and pick up seasonal work as an illegal fruit picker  :wallbash:......
So yes it was denied as she didn't show enough proof that she would return  home, in reality this was probably the strongest aspect of her application. Basically I suspect because  I was going to provide transport and accommodation, we  put our relationship as friends, but never met and it was denied.
So now we are meeting in Indonesia, in several  months and if all goes well Russia several months after that.

Weren't you warned to have her avoid telling of relationship (of any kind) with  a man in your country?

We have issued plenty of warnings here over the years on this topic.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on December 28, 2017, 04:59:29 PM
Not sure on the whole VISA thing. I was under the impression it was a thing of the past for the most part. All the women we know get them pretty easily these days. My wife has never even had her passport stamped entering the UK. They just motion her right through.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on December 28, 2017, 05:29:10 PM
Weren't you warned to have her avoid telling of relationship (of any kind) with  a man in your country?

We have issued plenty of warnings here over the years on this topic.

 Yes!!! And I had even done some of the  warning. What let me down was calling the visa department and being told she had an excellent case and it didn't matter that we hadn't met, it's better to be honest.... That was bad advice. Next attempt we should have spent almost a month together (if we get along after our first meeting) and I won't risk it, I'll hire a visa specialist to write her application

As it turns out, it was probably for the best. Yesterday my car did a rear engine seal (we planned to drive 4000km ) Last night my house air conditioner stopped working and an hour ago my father was admitted into hospital with suspected blood poisoning, he's not in a good way.

A romantic week on a tropical island seems a much better idea than what I originally planned  ;)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 28, 2017, 07:02:41 PM
Yes!!! And I had even done some of the  warning. What let me down was calling the visa department and being told she had an excellent case and it didn't matter that we hadn't met, it's better to be honest.... That was bad advice. Next attempt we should have spent almost a month together (if we get along after our first meeting) and I won't risk it, I'll hire a visa specialist to write her application

Now here is the catch --   now the dept will say-- "oh a relationship -- she will overstay visa conditions and not return" !! ;D  Catch22 is alive and well
Ya gotta remember-- these are public servants making these decisons !

A FWIW BTW --if anyone has not read Catch 22 -- I highly recommend  it --just make sure you slog through the early part to actually "get" the humour. This book will make you laugh out loud.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 07:23:28 PM
Not sure on the whole VISA thing. I was under the impression it was a thing of the past for the most part. All the women we know get them pretty easily these days. My wife has never even had her passport stamped entering the UK. They just motion her right through.

If she has had one before then they probably consider the fact that she visited and returned to home country within the allotted time presumably. Thus proving that she had the intention to return, the more she does this the harder it would be for border control to turn her down on that basis unless they found something to the contrary or chose to get anal with something out of a sudden bout of fussiness. Possible your ladies are quite wealthy in their own right, etc. I'm not saying it would be impossible to get a girl like I was with through if application put in right and preparation of paperwork sufficient but as Moby correctly say "The UK visa path for a young, unemployed and property-less FSU W is pretty hopeless". Now no doubt they use a tick box style formula to match every application off against so to avoid being subjective but no doubt also some perhaps give a little more leniency depending on who see your application though theoretically it is no doubt supposed to be consistent across the board.

The girl I was with did not believe a word of any of this, she was adamant that getting a visa for her would not be a problem. The number of times I tried to go over the problems with her but to no avail I think maybe my earlier suggesting Cyprus might have made her distrust anything I say with hindsight. I think distrust in the relationship on both sides was yet another issue and most probably we are probably both straight up just reading distrust in perfectly reasonable decisions.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on December 28, 2017, 07:50:18 PM
I know plenty of quiet guys who are happily married to their (attractive ) woman...



Quiet guys are usually happy to be married to anybody. Apparently you don't know how their wives feel.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on December 28, 2017, 08:36:39 PM
Now here is the catch --   now the dept will say-- "oh a relationship -- she will overstay visa conditions and not return" !! ;D  Catch22 is alive and well
Ya gotta remember-- these are public servants making these decisons !

A FWIW BTW --if anyone has not read Catch 22 -- I highly recommend  it --just make sure you slog through the early part to actually "get" the humour. This book will make you laugh out loud.

Ohh... the fun and games I have ahead of me!!!  ;)

Honestly, I've lived in my city for 22 years and the only Russians I've met are  my elderly  neighbours. I can imagine Chinese,  Asian  and even British, may blend in and be difficult to find, but a stunningly attractive Russian woman, with a thick accent would stand out like dogs balls and be tracked down in a matter of days, especially in my state with a small Russian population.
It seems one might have to get engaged before you might have a chance of bringing her here.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on December 28, 2017, 08:38:48 PM
If she has had one before then they probably consider the fact that she visited and returned to home country within the allotted time presumably.

Possible your ladies are quite wealthy

The girl I was with did not believe a word of any of this, she was adamant that getting a visa for her would not be a problem.

Yes, most have already traveled and have stamps, so at that point it is much easier. Well, my wife flies into a private FBO, so different, but the UK is one of the very few countries that has not checked her. A bit odd.

I do believe you guys that some are still turned down for x reason, but not like it used to be. Most go visit the guys these days instead of the man going to her town.

She did not believe it because all the women talk to each other. I bet she has friends that have visited and she probably thought you were lying or hiding something.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 09:15:30 PM

Quiet guys are usually happy to be married to anybody.

'Sure' they are...

Apparently you don't know how their wives feel.

'Sure', BillyB and you do... :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 10:25:50 PM
Ohh... the fun and games I have ahead of me!!!  ;)

It seems one might have to get engaged before you might have a chance of bringing her here.

Exactly the situation I was in with my last girl and the UK, in the UK while there are conditions she must meet on top off marriage (like taking an English Language test, etc) the hurdles are generally easier gotten over, so marriage in such a situation. Plus your doing it for the long term with a visit it similar if not greater hassle for a short stay then have to do it again for marriage in the future. So that was a lot of the reason I proposed to meet her in Kherson or another country and live together for a while so we knew how we would get on more better actually living together before marriage. Apparently though there are all sorts of oddities of being in her home city and the like that make this a no-go with many a Ukrainian/FSU girl. Common sense though it seems to us men, lol.

So there I am checkmate, I cannot get her to see reason in how the situation is from my end try as I might. I mean the girl you are going out to meet your going to want to get to know her better before marriage. Hell, even if you rushed straight headlong into marriage the wedding would have to take place somewhere, if your girl is anything like many FSW then her hometown will be out of the running, lol. FSW seem devoid of reason on this matter though, at least mine was, I hope yours won't go that way as other wise where is one supposed to get together, the moon!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 10:54:01 PM
Exactly the situation I was in with my last girl and the UK, in the UK while there are conditions she must meet on top off marriage (like taking an English Language test, etc) the hurdles are generally easier gotten over, so marriage in such a situation. Plus your doing it for the long term with a visit it similar if not greater hassle for a short stay then have to do it again for marriage in the future. So that was a lot of the reason I proposed to meet her in Kherson or another country and live together for a while so we knew how we would get on more better actually living together before marriage. Apparently though there are all sorts of oddities of being in her home city and the like that make this a no-go with many a Ukrainian/FSU girl. Common sense though it seems to us men, lol.

So there I am checkmate, I cannot get her to see reason in how the situation is from my end try as I might. I mean the girl you are going out to meet your going to want to get to know her better before marriage. Hell, even if you rushed straight headlong into marriage the wedding would have to take place somewhere, if your girl is anything like many FSW then her hometown will be out of the running, lol. FSW seem devoid of reason on this matter though, at least mine was, I hope yours won't go that way as other wise where is one supposed to get together, the moon!

Trench,

I see you are back to making 'BS' excuses ...

You had met her twice and were already complaining about her 'needs' re shopping.....    It was a trainwreck waiting to happen.

A more mature lass would have realised that getting the first UK visa - if not employed - would mean proving commitment and durability on both your parts.

Finally, you need to use the past tense in her regard - she has moved on and 're-advertising' her availability

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 28, 2017, 10:56:49 PM
Ohh... the fun and games I have ahead of me!!!  ;)
 tracked down in a matter of days, especially in my state with a small Russian population.

It seems one might have to get engaged before you might have a chance of bringing her here.

Tracked -- this is public servants we are talking about  -- nothing happens that fast !! ;D


Engaged--  then the paperwork nightmare really starts !! What is worse -- guess who you get to deal with again ! Yep-the very same public "service" ! ;D

Can she swim? It seems that all the advantages goes to the swimmers -- not the legitimate applicants !! ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 10:58:20 PM
Yes, most have already traveled and have stamps, so at that point it is much easier. Well, my wife flies into a private FBO, so different, but the UK is one of the very few countries that has not checked her. A bit odd.

I do believe you guys that some are still turned down for x reason, but not like it used to be. Most go visit the guys these days instead of the man going to her town.

She did not believe it because all the women talk to each other. I bet she has friends that have visited and she probably thought you were lying or hiding something.

How did you know that? :o Lol, your dead right, you've hit it square on the bullseye. Yeah she though I was lying and hiding something its exactly how she was with me. She came out with the, 'you just don't want me to visit because of ....blah, blah, blah, - accusations of having kids, being married, etc. She just could not get away from this though no matter how much I tried to convince her otherwise. She would only accept seeing my life in the UK in person as proof, Huh.

Your right again that women talk to each other and I didn't realise how powerful an influence that can be on a girl. She apparently has a lady friend that lives in the UK with the guy she met, she's married to him, that's how she got the idea to date a foreign guy so she tells me. Anyway, her friend I think is a fair bit older in her thirties at least I believe and because she told her 'I got in ok (whether it was for visit or marriage who knows) hence the same will be true for you also' - well something along those lines. Anyhow  of course that makes me the liar as firstly I'm a guy which obviously makes me a greater 'player' than Hugh Heffner ::) and secondly how could her friend that she has know for longer than me and being a female automatically being on her side be wrong. Her brief look on the UK borders agency website told her only what she wanted to see and could not register all the problems that I tried to tell her would likely/almost certainly come up. She would not accept she was not in a good position to get through the visa process, that was my responsibility apparently. Anyway the last message I received from her was a demand of 'where is my visa and tickets, I come to you when you have them' For some as you rightly state it can happen that simply but for most low paid peeps in FSU no way are they just going to let in millions of Russians by rubber stamping visas like there was no tomorrow. I think she just refuses to ignore the reality of the situation she has got it into her head that is how it is and no one is going to change her mind.

Flying into private airport terminals are no doubt a bit different as often used by the rich and famous so if shes able to go through there they probably take it as read that she's more than wealthy enough. I doubt that is an option for even many of us WM, lol.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 11:08:04 PM



Flying into private airport terminals are no doubt a bit different as often used by the rich and famous so if shes able to go through there they probably take it as read that she's more than wealthy enough. I doubt that is an option for even many of us WM, lol.

Trench, still referring to this lass in the  present tense ?

Remember - your ex can easily travel to Schengen nations, now - that includes France.  Folks regularly fly from Le  Touquet to small UK airports.  You must declare who is on board and their nationality.  Same for yachts... though I can see how this could be abused.

http://www.privatefly.com/private-jets/smallprop-aircraft-hire/Piper-PA32-Saratoga.html (http://www.privatefly.com/private-jets/smallprop-aircraft-hire/Piper-PA32-Saratoga.html)



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 28, 2017, 11:08:49 PM
Trench,

I see you are back to making 'BS' excuses ...

You had met her twice and were already complaining about her 'needs' re shopping.....    It was a trainwreck waiting to happen.

A more mature lass would have realised that getting the first UK visa - if not employed - would mean proving commitment and durability on both your parts.

Finally, you need to use the past tense in her regard - she has moved on and 're-advertising' her availability


Note  Trenchcoat has hijacked another  thread == made it about him again with posts not appropriate to that thread .

I said it before -- but ALL  his posts made anywhere ought to be moved to his very own thread -- after all-- he keeps repeating the same nonsense

Moby--- chances are ( and this is presuming any of what he has said is actually true) that she smelt the tight arse rat he is and was applying her own testing system  eg she wanted to know what his living circumstances were/are .   And/or what his real intentions were.  And all that presumes she was the slightest bit interested in him-- which I highly doubt.

Honestly -- such a pile of such triviality hardly warrants reexamining   -- he is just too thick to "get " the points repeatedly made directly to him.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 11:25:56 PM
Trench, still referring to this lass in the  present tense ?

Remember - your ex can easily travel to Schengen nations, now - that includes France.  Folks regularly fly from Le  Touquet to small UK airports.  You must declare who is on board and their nationality.  Same for yachts... though I can see how this could be abused.

http://www.privatefly.com/private-jets/smallprop-aircraft-hire/Piper-PA32-Saratoga.html (http://www.privatefly.com/private-jets/smallprop-aircraft-hire/Piper-PA32-Saratoga.html)

Yeah, she briefly suggested anywhere in EU (Schengen) apart from Cyprus as she though Cyprus economy was in a hole like Ukraine. I know it was but it looked like to me this had mostly all been gotten over and it was by no means in any sort off way like Ukraine's economy. Anyway, I thought this was a breakthrough so I suggested somewhere like Copenhagen, as it has a high percentage of English speaker and I had been there so know its a nice place, think a few Russians there also. Well she backtracked on this don't know why but from what Alex has said it I wouldn't mind betting its her 'friend(s)' putting their bit in and messing things up.

I'm not currently communicating with her and haven't been for a few months but still have her on Skype, etc. hence the tense.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 11:44:37 PM

Note  Trenchcoat has hijacked another  thread == made it about him again with posts not appropriate to that thread .

I said it before -- but ALL  his posts made anywhere ought to be moved to his very own thread -- after all-- he keeps repeating the same nonsense

Moby--- chances are ( and this is presuming any of what he has said is actually true) that she smelt the tight arse rat he is and was applying her own testing system  eg she wanted to know what his living circumstances were/are .   And/or what his real intentions were.  And all that presumes she was the slightest bit interested in him-- which I highly doubt.

Honestly -- such a pile of such triviality hardly warrants reexamining   -- he is just too thick to "get " the points repeatedly made directly to him.

No it is you who doesn't get it Jay, this is not about my relationship (or however its deemed) with this girl per-say its about the perspectives and interactions WM and FSW have of each other. If we fail to understand the FSW mentality, perspective and what is happening countless mistakes can happen over and over again. The stuff we are discussing here is valuable not only to OP in this endeavour but also many lurkers. If OP is aware of this stuff when he goes to the FSU to see a girl then he may do a lot better as a result.

Have you ever asked yourself why you are still without success years into this endeavour? All of what we are discussing here may help you :)

I think we are making huge leaps and bounds here beyond previous discussions of what was going on here. Its an incredibly complex topic and I'm not sure whether you have the capacity to absorb precisely all what is being discussed here. This isn't a exercise for neanderthals to go and club a girl and bring her back to his cave but a need to understand what all these interactions really mean in her mind/world.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 29, 2017, 12:10:20 AM
No it is you who doesn't get it Jay, this is not about my relationship (or however its deemed) with this girl per-say its about the perspectives and interactions WM and FSW have of each other. If we fail to understand the FSW mentality, perspective and what is happening countless mistakes can happen over and over again.

Quite...you here you are - STILL making excuses.... you were told and didn't listen - please absorb and stop offering bollox 'advise' to newbies
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on December 29, 2017, 12:16:36 AM
Can she swim? It seems that all the advantages goes to the swimmers -- not the legitimate applicants !! ;D

It might come to that!!

Doesn't the saying go "Russian woman can stop a galloping horse, enter a burning house and swim the Timor sea" ?  ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 29, 2017, 12:45:27 AM
Thankyou to the Mod that moved the TC piffle  !!! :clapping:

To the idiot TC-- the forum does not need your endless never learning repetitive posts to help anyone  -- and you conclude I don't "get" it !!  sheesh.


No it is you who doesn't get it Jay

Have you ever asked yourself why you are still without success years into this endeavour? All of what we are discussing here may help you :)


Now you comment on me again-- for the umpteenth time much the same attempt to insult,provoke.
You have responded that way to at least half a dozen others when they are critical of you  -- and in most of those case -- and mine -- you are completely off beam - just plain wrong.It is a pathetic response --from a clearly pathetic incompetent person ( note-I do use the term man).
You look at the status on the left-- and then go ahead with crazy presumptions  about what they mean-- with little or no understanding . It is seriously stupid,
Your personal comments to me-- and others-- that you have NO knowledge of -- just highlights what a dill you are.
Some here have met me in real life ,some know a lot more about me - but-- because I and others choose not to write about that in real time -- you make inane presumptions that some who do write - know or offer "better" advice etc etc It highlights  how stupid you really are.

Some have commented that you are bullied here-- my answer-rubbish !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 29, 2017, 12:46:48 AM
this is . . . out the perspectives and interactions WM and FSW have of each other. If we fail to understand the FSW mentality, perspective and what is happening countless mistakes can happen over and over again. The stuff we are discussing here is valuable not only to OP in this endeavour but also many lurkers. If OP is aware of this stuff when he goes to the FSU to see a girl then he may do a lot better as a result.


I believe you are mistaken.  At the end of the day, you are connecting with a person, not a culture. If you can't connect with the person, the culture is irrelevant.


Quote
Have you ever asked yourself why you are still without success years into this endeavour? All of what we are discussing here may help you


Jay is in a long term relationship.  He has posted that in the past. 


Quote
I think we are making huge leaps and bounds here beyond previous discussions of what was going on here. Its an incredibly complex topic and I'm not sure whether you have the capacity to absorb precisely all what is being discussed here. This isn't a exercise for neanderthals to go and club a girl and bring her back to his cave but a need to understand what all these interactions really mean in her mind/world.

No, it isn't complex.  IMHO, you focus far too much on the "why".  What you should be focusing on is the who - who is this woman, and how will this woman fit in my life?  Are her values compatible with mine? All the other stuff you focus on is just background noise, irrelevant in the grand scheme of building a life together.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 29, 2017, 01:32:39 AM


No, it isn't complex.  IMHO, you focus far too much on the "why".  What you should be focusing on is the who - who is this woman, and how will this woman fit in my life?  Are her values compatible with mine? All the other stuff you focus on is just background noise, irrelevant in the grand scheme of building a life together.

If Jay is in a LTR he should change his status from 'looking' otherwise people that don't know him will take it as that obviously.

As can be seen with the case of the last girl I was with there was a lot of issues and distrust on both sides that got in the way. Even Moby defends me on the situation with the visa. As far as I'm concerned it should be a case of ok we meet up do stuff together and enjoy ourselves and then arrange a follow up meet at another place that is easy & convenient to both and the relationship progresses over time. Should be as simple as that. Not for me though I get all this BS about her wanting a visa or she won't see me if I visit her err? Wall had a girl seemed to be on solid ground with her then all of a sudden BS about a problem with dogs. Dogs are generally not as big a problem in the west as in Ukraine we find out. Each time we uncover different aspects of Ukrainian society and we can gain a better understanding of what the problem is. I never in my wildest dreams would imagine a girl would be deemed a prostitute for going into a hotel with a guy but in Ukraine apparently so. Imagine what a western guy thinks hearing that for the first time. He'll think is she having me on, mental or a bit weird, is she messing me about and should I move onto another girl rather than this nutter. So to me I think these cultural issues need a bit better understanding either side or the situation like I had with the last girl will crop up - both will distrust and disbelieve each other and end up with total misunderstanding of each others situation.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 29, 2017, 01:43:31 AM
Dogs, and pets in general, are not an issue in Ukraine. My husbandís family had a dog. After he emigrated, they had a Siamese cat. Our neighbours had both cats and dogs. The issue was with the particular woman. Itís not a cultural issue.

How many WW would be comfortable going to the hotel room of a man they donít intend to have sex with?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 29, 2017, 02:09:02 AM
Dogs, and pets in general, are not an issue in Ukraine. My husbandís family had a dog. After he emigrated, they had a Siamese cat. Our neighbours had both cats and dogs. The issue was with the particular woman. Itís not a cultural issue.

How many WW would be comfortable going to the hotel room of a man they donít intend to have sex with?

Well they may go there intending to have sex but in the west that does not make her a prostitute. She may be a girlfriend, long term partner, friend with benefits, recent aquaintance who is up for it, a one night stand, etc. But none of them mean she is a prostitute in the west just because she shares the same hotel room. Some girls might not even be their for sex at all, a cousin, friend going to see a concert together, a business partner needing a quick stop over. In the west as you no doubt know we don't deem it our business to know why a guest is in a hotel/what they are doing, they just are. They are so many reasons and so many stays in so many hotels and so much staff turnover that making an issue out of it would be utter sillyness.

Possibly some issues are people based and some cultural. The main thing is that they are issues that crop up during FSU dating that need to be dealt with in order to make a go of it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 29, 2017, 02:11:57 AM
Most of it is common sense. A woman says she doesnít want to go to your room-no big deal, move on. Itís not a game changer.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 29, 2017, 03:32:49 AM
Most of it is common sense. A woman says she doesnít want to go to your room-no big deal, move on. Itís not a game changer.
As I have written many times previously-- staying in a hotel is no big deal . The views proffered by some here are old hat -dated. As Mrs B said above --no different to the west in same circumstances .  ie no big deal.

I have had literally hundreds of visitors -friends, girls ,guys ,children  who I have met in hotel common areas and at times- come to my room.Some social,some business ,sometimes just to quickly collect or check   something-sometimes for hours- normal things and no big deal.

I have often stayed in apartments too, some with a concierge far more intrusive than any hotel -- I also should add -- there are many variations to all these titles eg the rise of the apt-hotel combination ! 
All that is to say that there are more ways & places to stay than an Air bnb remote booking! By far my most important point-- get places that you inter act with people-- I have met a large number of people at hotel breakfast! I can see no point in hiding away in an apartment because you can do your own washing!!! :deadhorse:

My last point here-the information I offer is current ( and I am pretty confident that only a someone with permanent residency has spent more time in Ukraine)  -- and not 10 years old.Ukraine today -- has seen many changes over the last decade -- and now at an accelerating pace.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 29, 2017, 04:40:13 AM


As can be seen with the case of the last girl I was with there was a lot of issues and distrust on both sides that got in the way.

Based on your taking her on hols after meeting once - hardly surprising ?

Even Moby defends me on the situation with the visa.

I only explained it's hard for unemployed, young women -with no property...  to get  UK Visa ...   :D

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 29, 2017, 04:41:56 AM
As I have written many times previously-- staying in a hotel is no big deal .

..and it was nonsense then and now... you had real life instances of the issues involved and chose to ignore them ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on December 29, 2017, 06:04:29 AM
Trench, you been on F.dating lately?
In 2 minutes I found a handful of  naturally beautiful woman all around 38, with low views for the time they have been on there. I wouldn't be spending so much time here when there's quality woman like these online  ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 29, 2017, 02:37:23 PM
..and it was nonsense then and now... you had real life instances of the issues involved and chose to ignore them ...

I will defend you on this one Mobe :D

Two of the girls I went to meet refused to stay or meet me in hotel in Ukraine because they did not want to be seen as prostitutes. This was in the last year or so and still seems to be a common hang up there. I was shocked when reading message from the girl I went to see in Nikolaev that stated this hotel prostitute thing. She was so adamant and stubborn on not meeting me inside the hotel/restaurant. I just couldn't believe what I was reading, so bluntly put as well, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 29, 2017, 03:03:55 PM
Trench, you been on F.dating lately?
In 2 minutes I found a handful of  naturally beautiful woman all around 38, with low views for the time they have been on there. I wouldn't be spending so much time here when there's quality woman like these online  ;)

Hi Davo, well quality women fortunately seem to be in abundance out there but they seem to have certain ways about them. Understanding this I think is key to the task. I think a lot of guys myself included mess up chances by not understanding the girl they are in a relationship with/girl they meet. Some girls may be a more natural fit for the guy others may be a more difficult task. I think the girl also often misunderstands the guy. So in this respect the guy needs to have the foresight/perception to see what is really happening rather than what it looks like is happening. With little knowledge of how the girl views the process I has little idea.

Well yes it is about time now to start setting about this for the new year. Generally I am going to pick them up over there as I'm too busy with work commitments for the next three months to do much in the way of Skype. I'm looking forward to re-engaging with this shortly :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 29, 2017, 03:29:34 PM
Based on your taking her on hols after meeting once - hardly surprising ?

It was something she pushed for and I liked the idea of being on holiday with her. Generally I liked being with her on holiday but yes it was a big mistake doing it so early on. I made more mistakes on holiday with her that I didn't realise I was making until too late. I think it led to distrust. I think for her part she was trying to push the relationship along too quickly and her haste wanting to come here too soon set off alarm bells with me and I think I may have wrongly jumped to the wrong conclusion now that was all that was staring me in the face at the time. Even still her insistence on a visa that she mistakenly thinks she can easily get seems to be condemning that relationship. Looks like she trusts her friends voice more than mine.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on December 30, 2017, 01:49:08 PM
quality women fortunately seem to be in abundance out there but they seem to have certain ways about them.



Quality women are in demand and they can afford to be choosy. They aren't desperate. Even if some women are desperate, they aren't going to jump out of a bad situation into another bad situation.

Look at all the international dating sites and marriage agencies. Most of those women will not get married to a foreign man. Most men who go over there will not find success either. Some of those women in demand go on dates with 50 men and would not marry any of them. They will marry eventually but to a quality man. While some men struggle to land a woman, any woman, quality men have a lot of women to choose from and can get married easily. If you're in the category of struggling, you need to make some adjustments in your life or you will continue to question what went wrong after every women you met.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 30, 2017, 02:37:56 PM

Quality women are in demand and they can afford to be choosy. They aren't desperate. Even if some women are desperate, they aren't going to jump out of a bad situation into another bad situation.

Aren't you are forgetting that there are nearly the same number of quality guys out there..?  That's natures way..

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 30, 2017, 03:04:04 PM
If Jay is in a LTR he should change his status from 'looking' otherwise people that don't know him will take it as that obviously.

As can be seen with the case of the last girl I was with there was a lot of issues and distrust on both sides that got in the way. Even Moby defends me on the situation with the visa. As far as I'm concerned it should be a case of ok we meet up do stuff together and enjoy ourselves and then arrange a follow up meet at another place that is easy & convenient to both and the relationship progresses over time. Should be as simple as that. Not for me though I get all this BS about her wanting a visa or she won't see me if I visit her err? Wall had a girl seemed to be on solid ground with her then all of a sudden BS about a problem with dogs. Dogs are generally not as big a problem in the west as in Ukraine we find out. Each time we uncover different aspects of Ukrainian society and we can gain a better understanding of what the problem is. I never in my wildest dreams would imagine a girl would be deemed a prostitute for going into a hotel with a guy but in Ukraine apparently so. Imagine what a western guy thinks hearing that for the first time. He'll think is she having me on, mental or a bit weird, is she messing me about and should I move onto another girl rather than this nutter. So to me I think these cultural issues need a bit better understanding either side or the situation like I had with the last girl will crop up - both will distrust and disbelieve each other and end up with total misunderstanding of each others situation.

Many people would have the mistrust issues in a long distance beginning relationship,  even within the same culture and country.

Trust is the foundation, you have to be open to it as well.if you dated a woman on th e other end of your island, oddsx are you both might have trust issues initially, it's inherent in many people.

As I've said often, sel f confidence is something you need to craft and work towards if you don't have it.
It negates a big portion of those issues you run into, and it's an attractive trait to women.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 30, 2017, 03:15:28 PM
If you're in the category of struggling, you need to make some adjustments in your life or you will continue to question what went wrong after every women you met.

What makes up a quality man and what adjustments are needed to be done?

Presumably women are after different types of men though I agree that those that come across as quality in a certain way will get women easy.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on December 30, 2017, 03:23:20 PM
Aren't you are forgetting that there are nearly the same number of quality guys out there..?  That's natures way..


I said eventually those woman in demand will eventually marry a quality guy. Do the math.  :wallbash:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 30, 2017, 03:24:17 PM

What makes up a quality man and what adjustments are needed to be done?

Presumably women are after different types of men though I agree that those that come across as quality in a certain way will get women easy.

A "quality man" is different things to different women.  To some, it is six pack abs.  To others, it's a big bank account.  To others, it is a man who is intelligent.  To yet others, it is a man who can provide for a family and will be a good father.  You can't define it because different women have different perspectives, just as different men have different perspectives.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on December 30, 2017, 03:34:14 PM
What makes up a quality man and what adjustments are needed to be done?



There is enough information here and around you in real life to get the answers you need. Look around you. See who has success and how they act. I regularly give advice here. Some people think it's garbage, live by different beliefs and will have different results. Even I can't please everybody. I don't want to be the most popular guy in the world but if I can just be appealing to 10% of the women out there, I'll be a very busy guy......unless I date only one woman and chances are I'd be lonely. So look around you and see what guys are doing well with women, business and in life and make some changes if you want things to change.


Presumably women are after different types of men though I agree that those that come across as quality in a certain way will get women easy.




Some people think they don't need to make improvements and people should accept them the way they are. They don't want to move forward in life. Those who continue to be a better person today than they were yesterday are going to be labeled winners. You can be on the outside watching winners win wondering why you're so unlucky or you can be in the inside enjoying the life of a winner.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 30, 2017, 04:11:46 PM
What makes up a quality man and what adjustments are needed to be done?

Presumably women are after different types of men though I agree that those that come across as quality in a certain way will get women easy.

Absolutely each woman ,or man, will have their own  various beliefs in what's the best partner for them.

If you want to put a cultural spin on it, and shoot fgir what the majority will generally want, ask the fsu women here for a consensus

Good luck with that though.


My guess, and mind you it's just a guess as even living in the FSU doesn't make any one know very  much, is that it's far more family based than you might believe (certainly from your posts)
If you are normal looking, normal character, no wacky traits , and enjoy family as an equal contributor in child raising and would make a good father,-
 living in the FSU you would need a stick to beat off all the women trying to marry you or babushkas trying to fix you up.

 :cluebat:

Or maybe I'm just more charming than I previously thought, and modest too.
 :popcorn:

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 30, 2017, 05:14:15 PM
Trenchcoat   in action saving a penny? ;D




ĎFare-Dodgerí Gets Willy Stuck In Barriers At Tube Station


A man found himself in a pretty sticky situation when he tried to dodge the London Underground fare by jumping over the barriers.

The unidentified man was captured on camera screaming in pain and creating a massive scene at Covent Garden station, after he trapped his manhood in the gates.

http://www.unilad.co.uk/video/fare-dodger-gets-penis-stuck-in-barriers-at-tube-station/
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 30, 2017, 07:06:38 PM
While Trenchcoat persists in believing that he is "saving" some "poor" girl  who should jump at him in gratitude it is relevant to have a look at his world. ! :)

Perhaps Trenchcoat might note -as he looks through his "pink" glasses !
To quote from the article --
"After all, one personís tranquil paradise is anotherís tedious, muddy purgatory."


Englandís 10 Worst Towns To Live In Have Been Announced


ĎLuckyí runners up are as follows: Scunthorpe, Rochdale, Bradford, Gravesend, Sunderland, Oldham and Blackpool.

I admit I was particularly surprised at Blackpool being listed, which I fondly recall as having a shabby, spangly charm about it.

Iím sure Iím not the only person from Lancashire who enjoyed being driven through the lights as as kid Ė a night made complete by an oversized bundle of candy floss.

However, one resident has urged: ĎDonít come here, donít bring your family here, donít save your hard earned cash to holiday here cos all you gonna get is, robbed, hassled, spat atí.

http://www.unilad.co.uk/life/englands-10-worst-towns-to-live-in-have-been-announced/
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 30, 2017, 07:20:22 PM

Englandís 10 Worst Towns To Live In Have Been Announced

Dover at number one seems a bit harsh, and certainly Hull at number two is nonsensical.  I can't believe that my candidate for the most depressing town I saw in England (Bolton) doesn't make the list!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 30, 2017, 07:51:21 PM
Trenchcoat   in action saving a penny? ;D




ĎFare-Dodgerí Gets Willy Stuck In Barriers At Tube Station


A man found himself in a pretty sticky situation when he tried to dodge the London Underground fare by jumping over the barriers.

The unidentified man was captured on camera screaming in pain and creating a massive scene at Covent Garden station, after he trapped his manhood in the gates.

http://www.unilad.co.uk/video/fare-dodger-gets-penis-stuck-in-barriers-at-tube-station/

That's not me honest ;D I'm a white guy!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 30, 2017, 07:54:50 PM
While Trenchcoat persists in believing that he is "saving" some "poor" girl  who should jump at him in gratitude it is relevant to have a look at his world. ! :)

Perhaps Trenchcoat might note -as he looks through his "pink" glasses !
To quote from the article --
"After all, one personís tranquil paradise is anotherís tedious, muddy purgatory."


Englandís 10 Worst Towns To Live In Have Been Announced


ĎLuckyí runners up are as follows: Scunthorpe, Rochdale, Bradford, Gravesend, Sunderland, Oldham and Blackpool.

I admit I was particularly surprised at Blackpool being listed, which I fondly recall as having a shabby, spangly charm about it.

Iím sure Iím not the only person from Lancashire who enjoyed being driven through the lights as as kid Ė a night made complete by an oversized bundle of candy floss.

However, one resident has urged: ĎDonít come here, donít bring your family here, donít save your hard earned cash to holiday here cos all you gonna get is, robbed, hassled, spat atí.

http://www.unilad.co.uk/life/englands-10-worst-towns-to-live-in-have-been-announced/

I live in the south of England as I have stated before (and no not in or near Dover), so nowhere near those northern sh*teholes, though I hear they have spruced a few up a bit since their de-industrialization in the 80s & 90s.

Now remaber who this thread is supposed to be about :D :rules:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 30, 2017, 11:04:47 PM
Dover at number one seems a bit harsh, and certainly Hull at number two is nonsensical.  I can't believe that my candidate for the most depressing town I saw in England (Bolton) doesn't make the list!

I hope Ste doesn't read that ! )

..and Hull has just been 'our' city of culture ;)

http://www.hull2017.co.uk/ (http://www.hull2017.co.uk/)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 31, 2017, 12:20:08 AM
the most depressing town I saw in England (Bolton)
Where the 2nd pet shop is located ;D?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE&hd=1
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on December 31, 2017, 10:33:12 AM
My vote goes to Boston. It would not surprise me if C. S.Lewis had this city/town in mind when he wrote The Great Divorce.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on December 31, 2017, 10:45:03 AM
I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD.

Trench Coat, Waiting for something on the stove to cool down. I read some 10 pages or so of this thread. . . It is amazing and yet also sad. For what it is worth a variety of members representing different viewpoints can give you common sense advice and you willfully disregard and diminish it. My guess it does not fit your narrative, no matter how off kilter it is.

What is amazing is that there are posters who believe your reality and perspective.

What is sad that any normal woman from the former Soviet Union who comes in contact with you will be turned off from meeting further Western men.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 02, 2018, 02:29:37 AM
For what it is worth a variety of members representing different viewpoints can give you common sense advice and you willfully disregard and diminish it. My guess it does not fit your narrative, no matter how off kilter it is.

What is sad that any normal woman from the former Soviet Union who comes in contact with you will be turned off from meeting further Western men.

Trench just doesn't listen point blank.  tons of posters gave him advice from before during his trips. he is back to square one talking about using VK and "photography" as ways to meet women.  He won't go and Skype them, and makes all kinds of excuses.

He lives a mere 2 hour flight away from Moscow or Kiev. he should be on a plane any chance he gets. The holidays were just here, a huge opportunity. but oh well, his life, his way...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 03:08:32 AM
Trench just doesn't listen point blank.  tons of posters gave him advice from before during his trips. he is back to square one talking about using VK and "photography" as ways to meet women.  He won't go and Skype them, and makes all kinds of excuses.

He lives a mere 2 hour flight away from Moscow or Kiev. he should be on a plane any chance he gets. The holidays were just here, a huge opportunity. but oh well, his life, his way...

 :ROFL:

Points well made ... But if you can tell me the airline that can get me to Moscow as fast as two hours - I'll do weekends, too ! ;)

Man-Moscow - no direct flights anymore... average time 8 hours

Lon-Moscow is fours hours

The fastest possible back from Sochi is 13 hours .. 8 hours there
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 12:20:52 PM
Trench just doesn't listen point blank.  tons of posters gave him advice from before during his trips. he is back to square one talking about using VK and "photography" as ways to meet women.  He won't go and Skype them, and makes all kinds of excuses.

He lives a mere 2 hour flight away from Moscow or Kiev. he should be on a plane any chance he gets. The holidays were just here, a huge opportunity. but oh well, his life, his way...

THIS is the reason I don't do travelling abroad over/around the Christmas/New Year Festive period:

Link: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/28/hundreds-spend-night-at-stansted-airport-as-wintry-weather-hits-flights

Happens nearly every year and no the idea of kipping out on some hard plastic terminal seats for a nights sleep does not interest me, lol. I also avoid flying with BA as they are prone to having strikes every so often most likely again over the festive season as they don't give a sh*t about their customers or workers whatever their corporate PR says. Added to that will be the larger numbers of people going away, traffic jams and weather problems even getting to the airport, etc.

So why not just leave it a couple of months and go in March-April time when the snows have gone and I won't have those problems scuppering being with a lady and making me feel miserable for having it all stuff up. That's the way I see it.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 12:59:21 PM
Hi,

Thanks for the replies people.  I don't want to go to too many details as I need to start looking more positively for the future. One thing to be wary of is that I could have started a family soon after I married but I had job issues and felt i needed to make sure I can maintain an income and worry about the family later. After my job issues go back on track 2 years later my wife also got steady work. However the idea of a family to my wife time had passed. My marriage never recovered from that delay .

:popcorn: Yep I think we have found the diagnosis of your problem here already, now that was relatively quick and painless wasn't it. :)


For sure I have not been this far in with a FSW yet but from what I see this is a common mistake. Exposure early on to western culture is a big risk you are taking. You're essentially up-ing the challenge you are giving yourself without perhaps realizing it. Getting her preggers is no.1 priority never mind what situation you are in with anything else or all is lost! What I have learn't from my online studies is her getting a job or signing up to a course of study is virtually the worse thing you can do, particularly if you are not a top tier sort of guy. If you have not had family before and have not come first regularly with girls before in the past then you are not a top tier guy that many girls will go for and look up to. Don't distress yourself with this many of us guys aren't its just luck of the draw and you only need to fall a little short in one area or two to miss out on being a hottie wanted by all women.

You see Andrew when you let her go out and get a job you put her out on the market for all jocks to have a gander at. Once a woman is exposed to what else is out there, what she can get then she compares to you and if for her you no longer look as good a deal then she is likely to go elsewhere. When she first moves to a country many FSW will have little idea that they can get any better than the deal put in front off them, i.e you. You beat the local crowd she had access to so for her at that point in time she regards herself as getting a good deal - that is when you or most WM need to get the deal signed ;) and not delay. After all you have all the expense and hassle of going out there, dating (as fun as it can be) importing her, to me she signed up to being with you so can't complain that you want your half of the bargain. If you allow things to slide though she will see over time what else is out there and become accustomed to a whole new availability of men she did not know she would have access too. I've learn't that being too nice to a FSW doesn't help neither does getting a FSW and diverting her from her mission in life to be a baby machine ;D So don't try to alter a FSW just accept her as she is or run foul of her westernisation.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 02, 2018, 02:37:20 PM
Trench has made the stupidest post of the year. He was champion last year too. This attitude is why he will not have a happy marriage.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 02, 2018, 03:01:56 PM
PS, Trench - A former poster here married an FSUW.  She became pregnant immediately, although it wasn't planned. He is wealthy, so she never worked.  She still managed to find a lover, despite being a stay at home mother, and booted the husband out to install her lover.  So your theory is no inoculation against adultery or abandonment.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 04:02:12 PM
THIS is the reason I don't do travelling abroad over/around the Christmas/New Year Festive period:



I do it most years ...booking at the last minute - having checked weather reports ..

Last year was via Istanbul to Sochi...   

Once again, Trench makes 'excuses' while others get on a DO it ))

Buy a set of winter tyres and DRIVE there !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 04:02:38 PM
PS, Trench - A former poster here married an FSUW.  She became pregnant immediately, although it wasn't planned. He is wealthy, so she never worked.  She still managed to find a lover, despite being a stay at home mother, and booted the husband out to install her lover.  So your theory is no inoculation against adultery or abandonment.

Stopping at one is not enough, you need at least two to get a decent level of protection. Three or more kids will have near enough all prospective competing males running for the hills. A guy who sees a woman with a kid already will think 'ok she has one but I can still have a couple more with her and it be manageable enough'. With three you are just being used as a b*tch.

In anything there's no guarantees but having kids tends to reduce the risk. Giving a woman two or more kids to deal with should keep her busy from pursuing lovers in her own interest.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Hammer2722 on January 02, 2018, 04:05:00 PM
Stopping at one is not enough, you need at least two to get a decent level of protection. Three or more kids will have near enough all prospective competing males running for the hills. A guy who sees a woman with a kid already will think 'ok she has one but I can still have a couple more with her and it be manageable enough'. With three you are just being used as a b*tch.

In anything there's no guarantees but having kids tends to reduce the risk. Giving a woman two or more kids to deal with should keep her busy from pursuing lovers in her own interest.

LOL, Completely clueless............... :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 04:10:55 PM
Giving a woman two or more kids to deal with should keep her busy from pursuing lovers in her own interest.

I wish to defend Trench.. in no way does the comment above make him out to be a misogynist  or clueless


Please note... irony intended





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 02, 2018, 04:25:15 PM
Stopping at one is not enough, you need at least two to get a decent level of protection. Three or more kids will have near enough all prospective competing males running for the hills. A guy who sees a woman with a kid already will think 'ok she has one but I can still have a couple more with her and it be manageable enough'. With three you are just being used as a b*tch.

In anything there's no guarantees but having kids tends to reduce the risk. Giving a woman two or more kids to deal with should keep her busy from pursuing lovers in her own interest.

You are going to be gone long before your wife gets to kid #3.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 02, 2018, 06:49:54 PM
:ROFL:

Points well made ... But if you can tell me the airline that can get me to Moscow as fast as two hours - I'll do weekends, too ! ;)

Man-Moscow - no direct flights anymore... average time 8 hours

Lon-Moscow is fours hours



Sorry 3 and 1/2 hours from London.  Amsterdam and other closer cities are 3 hours or less. 

My point is that anyone in Europe is far closer to Russia than from North America.  Here it's a minimum of 10 hours and with connecting flights usually.  In total it takes me 16-18 hours from my city to Moscow.   So an extra hour to you should mean nothing!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 02, 2018, 06:56:08 PM
Trench has made the stupidest post of the year. He was champion last year too. This attitude is why he will not have a happy marriage.

Bingo!!  Trench I really have no idea how you can seriously think like this...  Forget marriage, he won't even be able to find a girlfriend.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 07:03:59 PM
Sorry 3 and 1/2 hours from London.  Amsterdam and other closer cities are 3 hours or less. 

My point is that anyone in Europe is far closer to Russia than from North America.  Here it's a minimum of 10 hours and with connecting flights usually.  In total it takes me 16-18 hours from my city to Moscow.   So an extra hour to you should mean nothing!

IF you happen to live right next to Heathrow's flight path, lol. Fortunately I don't but the point is you have to factor in about a 4 hour journey plus checking in and waiting time as a minimum from where I live on the south coast of England. Then there is journey time at the other end, etc. which might be 2 hours in all so that 3.5-4 hour flight now becomes 10 hours minimum, possibly longer with traffic, delays, etc.

Of course you will have some travelling time as well on top but the point is that it is not quite as easy as those not from the UK think. A 10 hour journey time either side gets you next to no time over there for a long weekend. Essentially you might as well book the whole week off work, not a big problem as all full time workers in the UK get at least 25 days holiday per year, but the idea you can go every weekend if we liked isn't really a goer for many Brits.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 07:32:27 PM
Trench, serious question.  Have you had a girlfriend before or been in a relationship?  Because it's utter nonsense what you are spewing.  Most long time members will know this but new members may not.

If you have so little confidence in yourself that you feel a girl may leave you at the drop of a hat then something is wrong with you.

I don't want this thread being de-railed again, it is not about me, I am for the record a confident enough guy. I don't think you realise how notoriously competitive the dating scene is in the UK, specifically the south of England. It is horrendous you have to be of such a high standard as a guy to get a girl here for the long term or short term relationship. Girls here do not ask out guys they have such a large selection to choose from. A girl will typically line up at least several guys of interest to her and string them along and eventually choose one out of that selection or one that just comes out of the blue from somewhere. The UK is not Canada or the US, this is how hard it is here and many a guy from south of England will tell you the same.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 02, 2018, 07:59:09 PM
Believe me, if Trench does find an FSUW, he won't be ruining her life.  Those women are not babes in the woods.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 02, 2018, 08:20:08 PM
IF you happen to live right next to Heathrow's flight path, lol. Fortunately I don't but the point is you have to factor in about a 4 hour journey plus checking in and waiting time as a minimum from where I live on the south coast of England.


Again with your excuses.  Everyone has travel time to the airport.  I basically lose a full day or two if you factor in the time zone difference.

You can get to London the day before and book an airport hotel and catch an early morning flight the next day.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 02, 2018, 08:25:40 PM
I don't think you realise how notoriously competitive the dating scene is in the UK, specifically the south of England. It is horrendous you have to be of such a high standard as a guy to get a girl here for the long term or short term relationship.

Dude I lived in London for a time, the biggest city in the UK.  I have to admit British girls are far less attractive than Russians on the whole, hence I didn't even bother asking one out.  I didn't have any problems finding girls from other cultures in London.  The UK is no more competitive than America, the rest of Europe or anywhere.   It basically comes down to the person.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 10:06:13 PM
Sorry 3 and 1/2 hours from London.  Amsterdam and other closer cities are 3 hours or less. 

My point is that anyone in Europe is far closer to Russia than from North America.  Here it's a minimum of 10 hours and with connecting flights usually.  In total it takes me 16-18 hours from my city to Moscow.   So an extra hour to you should mean nothing!

'Sorry' .. a bit like you suggesting you never dated one British girl in London - 'coz Russian women are more attractive'.. you are being a mite disingenuous..like any nation - there are attractive women...London has more than it's fair share.


The average flight time between London and Moscow is 3hrs and 53 minutes.. http://www.flight-durations.com/London-to-Moscow..I do believe my 'adding' 7 mins is far more accurate than your subtracting 23 ;)

BTW Kyiv is 3 hrs 18 mins...

I fully accept that New York to Moscow or Kyiv ( just over 9 hours - 1 mile different)  is 5 hours longer - but I think the time zone difference is the main 'killer' to making short trips



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 11:28:24 PM
Dude I lived in London for a time, the biggest city in the UK.  I have to admit British girls are far less attractive than Russians on the whole, hence I didn't even bother asking one out.  I didn't have any problems finding girls from other cultures in London.  The UK is no more competitive than America, the rest of Europe or anywhere.   It basically comes down to the person.

You've just proven my point - you could not get a decent British girl in London - why do you think that is - the competition!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 11:52:44 PM
You've just proven my point - you could not get a decent British girl in London - why do you think that is - the competition!

I interpreted Sting23's comment as, " I didn't see an attractive British girl", rather than his having any difficulty in 'pulling'...;)

Perhaps he can correct one of us ?!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 12:16:04 AM
I interpreted Sting23's comment as, " I didn't see an attractive British girl", rather than his having any difficulty in 'pulling'...;)

Perhaps he can correct one of us ?!

Exactly my point...I literally didn't meet one British girl who I wanted to ask out.  I don't know how Trench interprets English. Maybe that's why he has problems!

Had dates with American, French, Chinese, Czech.... many Eastern europeans that I met too.. Polish, Hungarian..  This was a long time ago and I had no idea about Russian girls or I would have tried to find them too!   there are tons of Russians in London. if you can't even get a date with one there, why bother going abroad Trench?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 12:17:18 AM
You've just proven my point - you could not get a decent British girl in London - why do you think that is - the competition!

Me thinks you don't speakie Englishie
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 03, 2018, 12:24:08 AM
Trench just proved - once more - that he is either inattentive, wilfully ignorant - in that he doesn't listen / read folks posts- or plain daft

Either that or just trolling
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on January 03, 2018, 01:26:16 AM
Stopping at one is not enough, you need at least two to get a decent level of protection. Three or more kids will have near enough all prospective competing males running for the hills. A guy who sees a woman with a kid already will think 'ok she has one but I can still have a couple more with her and it be manageable enough'. With three you are just being used as a b*tch.

In anything there's no guarantees but having kids tends to reduce the risk. Giving a woman two or more kids to deal with should keep her busy from pursuing lovers in her own interest.

Trench, this is a topic close to home. I have 3 children , I also divorced their serial cheating mother. Children have no bearing on if a woman will have an affair. I joined an affair support group 3 years ago to get advice, now I'm a moderator and giving advice. 2500 members and 90% have children. Their ages generally range from 30 - 50, the prime age for infidelity.

There are many reasons for a woman to have an affair. In a lot of cases, a woman who is loaded up with children and is  dealing with the boring aspects of day to day life, combined with an inattentive husband,   is more likely to cheat  than a woman without children.

You might say that's BS, a woman who has children is less likely to betray her family, but statistically that's not the case and once it starts often there is no guilt. There's something called an a "affair fog", there are  probably men and  women here who know exactly what I'm talking about. The cheating partner will rationalise their destructive behaviour while in the fog. The betrayed partner  and children come a distant second to their affair partner.

In my case my ex was a school  teacher, counselor and a child wellbeing officer. During her last affair,  she went from a loving mother to being reported for emotional child  abuse and lost custody of our children.

A word of warning..... Since this is a big issue for you. 70% of long term relationships experience infidelity..... single incidents (one night stands), emotional affairs, physical affairs or online affairs. The biggest percentage of married people that cheat are around the age of 40. At 40 people tend to reflect on their life and if they are in an unhappy relationship, or in many cases lack morals and empathy, they are more open to being unfaithful .... So I'd suggest finding someone your own age, since you are close to 40, as you will be her exciting new life, not another guy in 10 years time if you marry a 30 year old.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 02:06:32 AM

The average flight time between London and Moscow is 3hrs and 53 minutes.. http://www.flight-durations.com/London-to-Moscow..I do believe my 'adding' 7 mins is far more accurate than your subtracting 23 ;)

BTW Kyiv is 3 hrs 18 mins...

I fully accept that New York to Moscow or Kyiv ( just over 9 hours - 1 mile different)  is 5 hours longer - but I think the time zone difference is the main 'killer' to making short trips

There's a reason why I never took a liking to Brits, girls or guys....stop counting every minute, you get my point. It's far closer to go to Kiev or Moscow from London than it is from USA.  And I ain't even on the east coast like New York.  Think California.  A 10 hour time difference.  Add in 15 hours of travel and basically you need a few days to recover from the jet lag.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 03, 2018, 02:29:40 AM
There's a reason why I never took a liking to Brits, girls or guys....stop counting every minute, you get my point.

If you post incorrect data  - or 'exaggerate' - in your case - you'll get picked up ... my lineage has nothing to do with being a pedant ! I'm more 'Irish' than British - best add them to your 'list' based on my 'bad' example ;)

It's far closer to go to Kiev or Moscow from London than it is from USA.  And I ain't even on the east coast like New York.  Think California.  A 10 hour time difference.  Add in 15 hours of travel and basically you need a few days to recover from the jet lag.

We agree - I already stated the jet-lag factor  is the greater hardship - given that folks from the British Isles don't all fly via London nor choose partners who conveniently live in Moscow or Kyiv ! 

I realise not all posters profiles are accurate - but when you've a few trips under your belt - you state none -you can cease 'theorising'..

The 'Europe advantage' is an oft used 'excuse' by N.Americans ..   You guys can often get flights for less than we can .. but that might be down to the 'value ' of the GBP ?

Do 'we' have an advantage - unquestionably ... 



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 02:54:41 AM

I realise not all posters profiles are accurate - but when you've a few trips under your belt - you state none -you can cease 'theorising'..


Don't believe the lack of info on the profile...I signed up here a few years ago and basically forgot all about it until now.  Been too busy working and living in Russia and Europe lol.   

So I've done these trips more than a few times.  I connect through different cities and when the first flight is 10 hours the 2nd connecting one feels much shorter.

You must be joking when you say flights are cheaper from the USA than UK, from which city?  It's usually $1000 or more depending on high or low season.
I've seen flights from London to Moscow for just over 100 pounds.

Anyone from Europe has it waaaay easier if they want to go to Russia or Ukraine.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 03, 2018, 04:11:23 AM
Don't believe the lack of info on the profile...I signed up here a few years ago and basically forgot all about it until now.  Been too busy working and living in Russia and Europe lol.   

WHY do folks mislead re their profiles ... some sort of 'game' or just lazy ? ;)  But thanks for clearing that up


So I've done these trips more than a few times.  I connect through different cities and when the first flight is 10 hours the 2nd connecting one feels much shorter.

You must be joking when you say flights are cheaper from the USA than UK, from which city?  It's usually $1000 or more depending on high or low season.
I've seen flights from London to Moscow for just over 100 pounds.

I wish... Possibly when the low cost airlines flew there

Anyone from Europe has it waaaay easier if they want to go to Russia or Ukraine.

Ironically, in the Summer, flights from North America are often more competitive to onward cities ... but then I seem to chose women in the corners / centre of Russia ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 04:25:19 AM
WHY do folks mislead re their profiles ... some sort of 'game' or just lazy ? ;)  But thanks for clearing that up


Mislead? you're reaching there. When I joined I thought this was just a site about dating Russian girls.   I didn't know people actually did trips over there for the sole purpose of finding a mate.  You've been on this forum for over 10 years so you must be the resident expert on everything here.  You certainly act that way telling people not to post this, don't tell your story to the peanut gallery..blah blah.. to do that.  Just chill out man.  Live and let live.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on January 03, 2018, 07:53:26 AM
My vote goes to Boston. It would not surprise me if C. S.Lewis had this city/town in mind when he wrote The Great Divorce.


It IS a CITY, not a town. And it is one of the best in the US  >:(
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on January 03, 2018, 08:10:01 AM
Trench, this is a topic close to home. I have 3 children , I also divorced their serial cheating mother. Children have no bearing on if a woman will have an affair. I joined an affair support group 3 years ago to get advice, now I'm a moderator and giving advice. 2500 members and 90% have children. Their ages generally range from 30 - 50, the prime age for infidelity.

There are many reasons for a woman to have an affair. In a lot of cases, a woman who is loaded up with children and is  dealing with the boring aspects of day to day life, combined with an inattentive husband,   is more likely to cheat  than a woman without children.


Shocking! Where have all the morals of the olden days gone to? :popcorn:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on January 03, 2018, 08:32:43 AM
PS, Trench - A former poster here married an FSUW.  She became pregnant immediately, although it wasn't planned. He is wealthy, so she never worked.  She still managed to find a lover, despite being a stay at home mother, and booted the husband out to install her lover.  So your theory is no inoculation against adultery or abandonment.


Absolutely correct. He will just be hooked on alimony and child support payments for life.  :P
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 03, 2018, 05:14:37 PM

Absolutely correct. He will just be hooked on alimony and child support payments for life.  :P

Of course that is why she did it, funny there are stories of UK girls doing similar to rich UK guys. They essentially go up to a rich guy in a posh London city centre bar or similar. They then throw themselves at the guy just to get pregnant knowing that the guy will earn a lot and they can get a nice payment routinely for the next 16-19 years. Shows how careful you have to be some girls are out on their own agenda and don't care about anyone else.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 03, 2018, 05:26:16 PM
It wasnít about his wealth. She came from a wealthy family as well and didnít marry him for money.  We donít know why she took a lover. Perhaps she was lonely. Or bored. Or he was lousy in bed. It doesnít really matter, though. The point was that impregnating a woman wonít inoculate you from divorce. If she is unhappy for whatever reason, eventually, you will be alone.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 03, 2018, 05:40:16 PM
It wasnít about his wealth. She came from a wealthy family as well and didnít marry him for money.  We donít know why she took a lover. Perhaps she was lonely. Or bored. Or he was lousy in bed. It doesnít really matter, though. The point was that impregnating a woman wonít inoculate you from divorce. If she is unhappy for whatever reason, eventually, you will be alone.

Why women always think its the guys job to entertain them I don't know, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 05:54:18 PM
Trenchcoat just made a rather crude comment here regarding the OP's update on this thread: 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.msg473996#msg473996

Luckily he deleted it but I still saw it.  Let's just say you don't ever want this guy around anyone's daughter. 

Trench I know what you wrote and it's pretty sick.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: treadmilldude on January 03, 2018, 06:13:30 PM
Yes.


Notice the cheap, nasty, gross $8 K-Mart Sweater and $1.99 Fruit of the Loom Wife Beater. Someone likes to dress as cheaply as possible, even for their VK profile picture!!! In my experience, Slavic women do  not like men who spend a grand total of $10 on their wardrobe.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 03, 2018, 06:22:59 PM
Why women always think its the guys job to entertain them I don't know, lol.

No one is talking about entertainment. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 03, 2018, 06:23:52 PM
Trenchcoat just made a rather crude comment here regarding the OP's update on this thread: 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.msg473996#msg473996 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.msg473996#msg473996)

Luckily he deleted it but I still saw it.  Let's just say you don't ever want this guy around anyone's daughter. 

Trench I know what you wrote and it's pretty sick.


Posters cannot delete their posts.  They can only modify them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 06:28:32 PM

Posters cannot delete their posts.  They can only modify them.

Hmm...I saw it clearly with my own 2 eyes.  Then when I refreshed the page it was gone.

Trench.. you wrote: "Blimey...." yes?  I won't repeat the rest but it was quite crass and rude.  Maybe one of the mods deleted it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on January 03, 2018, 08:12:38 PM
Yes.


Notice the cheap, nasty, gross $8 K-Mart Sweater and $1.99 Fruit of the Loom Wife Beater. Someone likes to dress as cheaply as possible, even for their VK profile picture!!! In my experience, Slavic women do  not like men who spend a grand total of $10 on their wardrobe.

I pulled it off dressed in second hand shop clothes and sunglasses, in a very grainy picture and the women loved my 2nd picture, dressed entirely inappropriately for the situation, bare feet and all.
If you can't pull off the sophisticated man about town look...  go for the, life's going to be a little crazy, but fun persona.
Might be a bit difficult for trench to achieve the rugged outback man look though  ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 03, 2018, 10:26:06 PM

It IS a CITY, not a town. And it is one of the best in the US  >:(

Wrong Boston, pitbull!  :D  The article in question is about ENGLISH towns - Boston is in Lincolnshire, with a population in the 60 thousands.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 03, 2018, 11:57:27 PM
Ok, well back to me :D Well I've been looking through a few FSU cities and of course the women you get there. St. Pete's seemed to come up with some nice looking specimens ;D and Minsk wasn't too far behind either. I've been to Moscow and its a possibility but thought might as well go somewhere new. Looked also at Sochi as the main draw for me is year round decent weather, as you all know the cold is not something I enjoy. I don't mind it for snowboarding, etc but its not something I would want around me for too long. Main thing I'm finding with Sochi is that while it has some stunningly attractive women I find they nearly all already had a kid. For me while one kid is not the end of the world I would generally prefer a woman without a child. I'm not saying it couldn't work with a girl with a child already but I think it would add to the complexity of an already complex situation of International dating. Anyway, my main thought on this was wondering why this was? I'm guessing you Moby are likely to be best place for once to field the answer to that one.

The women I am looking at are in the 29-35 year old age group and while I would expect to find some with children in this age bracket looking for another partner I tend to find many more women like that in Sochi than in St. Petersburg or Minsk, Moscow probably too. I'm guessing there is probably more of a career culture to distract them in these other cities whereas Sochi being based around leisure perhaps gives more time for it.

My other thought is I would probably find it easiest in a relationship with a girl with similar interests to me or at least interests I would be happy partaking in. The last girl apparently had the odd few interests but those I did do with her and perhaps her interests in general were rather short lived typed of stuff, i.e you do the activity for maybe an hour then your done and looking to find something else to fill the day with. I think I might be best finding a girl who would be interested in exploring a city, place or visiting interesting sites. Its something you can spend a whole day on is reasonable cheap to do. I would of course not be interested in a girl that is into travelling if she expects me to pay for her. I don't mind the occasional more  extrovert activity but I think I need to really find someone of a roughly similar pace on all this to me and a similar type of activities. For instance the first girl I met was into Opera, Theatre, etc and though it was fine to see on the odd occasion I am not really a big theatre goer if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on January 04, 2018, 07:55:54 AM
Maybe the Boogel Woogel ski festival is the place for you Trench.... You can snow board, be an extrovert in your underwear and try your luck with the scantly clad women  ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 04, 2018, 07:58:07 AM
Ple-ease keep him away from Sochi or it's mountain resorts ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on January 04, 2018, 08:23:15 AM
Ple-ease keep him away from Sochi or it's mountain resorts ;)

Hhaaa, It's just a diversion to protect my interests not far up the coast   ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 04, 2018, 11:01:32 AM
Scantily clad women certainly take my interest :D I recall now you mention it a TV news article on the event where all these women ski down the snow wearing just bikini's. I guess because there's also a beach resort nearby. While that looks fun I wonder if they would be doing so with a kid in toe if that I have found online is anything to go by. Like loaf's of them seem that way. The only way around this is to go for a girl a year or two younger but I am wary of this. I am also slightly concerned of the type of girl you get there - too likely to turn up a materialistic girl perhaps and they as I know can be a pain. Now I know me Mobers will be just gagging to convince me otherwise that a Sochi girl is the one to go for ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 04, 2018, 11:55:20 AM
Now I know me Mobers will be just gagging to convince me otherwise that a Sochi girl is the one to go for ;D

1/ SC is nearly old enough to be your Ma

2/ Other than her ( of course) all Sochi women are either ugly or very emancipated....

hopefully, I get a medal from the Mayor of Sochi for saving the city's women from a visit from Trench ;)
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 04, 2018, 12:19:26 PM
1/ SC is nearly old enough to be your Ma

2/ Other than her ( of course) all Sochi women are either ugly or very emancipated....

hopefully, I get a medal from the Mayor of Sochi for saving the city's women from a visit from Trench ;)
 


I think you're right Mobe there seems to be a shortage of hotties there without kids. It's got me wondering if maybe I could pick up a girl in St. Pete's and get her to move to Sochi. I'm not sure whether that might appeal to a girl or sound a bit weird for a WM to be asking. It's the warm humidity you see, it's good for my health :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 05, 2018, 01:46:03 AM
I think you're right Mobe there seems to be a shortage of hotties there without kids.

I never claimed such ...  and you're wrong if you believe that...

It's got me wondering if maybe I could pick up a girl in St. Pete's and get her to move to Sochi. I'm not sure whether that might appeal to a girl or sound a bit weird for a WM to be asking. It's the warm humidity you see, it's good for my health :)

Tip: not that you'll listen... Find your ideal lady - don't search by location

I know plenty of ladies from Piter or Moscow who'd like to live in Sochi, but find the costs are the same/similar ( Sochi is now the 'third capital ') but the wages aren't ..

They try to make a go of it and move back - but miss Sochi

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on January 05, 2018, 03:04:04 AM


Tip: not that you'll listen... Find your ideal lady - don't search by location

I know plenty of ladies from Piter or Moscow who'd like to live in Sochi, but find the costs are the same/similar ( Sochi is now the 'third capital ') but the wages aren't ..