Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: Sting23 on January 07, 2018, 11:42:22 PM

Title: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 07, 2018, 11:42:22 PM
Anyone have this experience where a Russian woman you are dating suddenly cuts off all contact for no apparent reason?

I'm talking about a woman that you've actually seen in person, dated a few times or more, or even a girlfriend.

An expat buddy just recounted a story where his Russian gf suddenly broke off things, blocked all forms of communication and gave him the cold shoulder.  Now I don't know how long they were going out but this really shook him up.  Came outta left field.

He's late 20's so I assume the girl was around his age.   

I've had the occasional girl stop messaging after a few dates or turn cold.  But nothing this drastic with a girlfriend.

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: BillyB on January 08, 2018, 12:44:44 AM

He may have turned her off by saying something that really upset her. He may have been saying things over time which made her realize he's not right for her. She may have found another guy who's better.

All is fair in love and war. Doesn't really matter what her reasons are. He needs to move on. He's young and will get over it. Next!
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 08, 2018, 02:12:57 AM
He may have turned her off by saying something that really upset her. He may have been saying things over time which made her realize he's not right for her. She may have found another guy who's better.

All is fair in love and war. Doesn't really matter what her reasons are.

I agree, BUT ... it would be nice for him to know so that he doesn't make the same mistake(s) again.  It's probably happened to most (all?) of us at some stage, although not necessarily with someone you've actually met, and it's pretty frustrating to be dumped without being told (or being able to figure out) why.

It may not be so hard if the girlfriend is local, especially if you move in the same social circles or have friends in common who can spill the beans, but it's impossible if your girlfriend (or potential girlfriend) is thousands of miles away and speaks a different language.

...He needs to move on. He's young and will get over it. Next!

Of course he will.  After the third or fourth, though, he might wonder if he needs to change his aftershave.  :o
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: msmob on January 08, 2018, 02:29:15 AM
Never happened to me re someone I'd actually met..

If other folks can still see her profiles then it's likely he should just accept that fact that he'll never know why ((

Should it be driving him CRAZY - wait a month or two - create another profile and try a polite message...   in the remote chance someone else blocked you....  Chances are if she wanted to - she'd contact you ((

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 08, 2018, 05:55:51 AM
No, this guy is still in Russia.  He's been working there a while and it happened all of a sudden.  I don't know how they met but it was probably like how you would meet a local girl in your city. 

So it's not like he was flying over there for visits, they were dating normally.

I'm just wondering if this is more a Russian mentality or due to youth.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Boethius on January 08, 2018, 06:02:24 AM
Itís called ghosting. Happens here as well.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 08, 2018, 08:13:24 AM
Could be anything but I'm guessing it's most likely either she was not that into him/went off him/found another guy/was having an affair with another guy/unhappy with her life & wanted a change and it was just the easiest way as she probably knew there would be a load of aggro/waffle and didn't want to have to deal with it.

Or she has a direct nature that many FSW seem to have and just decided that is what she wanted. I think many FSW view matters different to WM and read into what a guy does and says differently. It's crazy you do or say something that most people in the west would not even register as any sort of problem but to FSW all of a sudden you've become a gangster. I think it's their society which is a very different scene to how our society is. For example, the last girl I was with accused me of being 'on the run from the law' lol, at the time I thought she was just making up BS to sling back at me. But I now think she probably genuinely thought it as crazy as that may sound. I made the mistake of going to Cyprus where a lot of Russians used to go to launder money, that and I suggested moving out there. To me a westerner perfectly normal (few westerners do such moves for illegal purposes) but to her she could only see the reason as being the same as for Russians that I was dodgy. It's what she is used to seeing from Russians and knows nothing else. So of the girl thought he might be a criminal by something he was doing or saying she might have took sudden flight as she wanted no part of it (as she saw it).
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 08, 2018, 08:17:02 AM
Trench, just stop.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Lord of the Dance on January 08, 2018, 08:50:33 AM
Itís called ghosting. Happens here as well.

'Ghosting,' huh? Well, whatever it's called, it seems rude to simply drop off the face of the earth (barring any truly egregious actions on the part of the man). I had a friend who suffered a similar experience, but in that case the girl was seeing someone else on the side (that he only discovered later).
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 08, 2018, 09:36:06 AM
What I am trying to say in my earlier post is that it doesn't seem to take much for a FSW to start thinking the worst of a guy and she may not even let on that this is the way she's come to think of him, she'll just decide she is right in what she thinks, decide its too much and move on. A lot of FSW seem to have an arbitrary way about them.

That said I think LOTD may be right in that if she has hooked up with some other guy she may play him along until she is firm that the the other guy is hers then dump him. Either that she does not want to be caught two timing or has been caught by the other guy hence has been told by other guy to cut all communication or she is dumped.If she likes other guy more then this is what she may have done. I think this is probably quite likely.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: BillyB on January 08, 2018, 09:53:00 AM
it would be nice for him to know so that he doesn't make the same mistake(s) again.  It's probably happened to most (all?) of us at some stage, although not necessarily with someone you've actually met, and it's pretty frustrating to be dumped without being told (or being able to figure out) why.



Hard for the girl to be nice to him when the guy is getting dumped.


When dumping a girl, I tell them I'm glad to have met them but we are different people and I need to move in a different direction. Explaining their faults or differences may lead to arguments. We're adults, we're supposed to fix our own issues without having to be told.


it seems rude to simply drop off the face of the earth (barring any truly egregious actions on the part of the man).



You want to see how ugly people can get? Dump them. Girls don't want to see ugly. Disappearing is one way to avoid ugly. Some of these girls know their man doesn't take "no" for an answer or they'll plead and cry for the woman to stay in a relationship.




Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 08, 2018, 10:02:59 AM

Hard for the girl to be nice to him when the guy is getting dumped.


When dumping a girl, I tell them I'm glad to have met them but we are different people and I need to move in a different direction. Explaining their faults or differences may lead to arguments. We're adults, we're supposed to fix our own issues without having to be told.



You want to see how ugly people can get? Dump them. Girls don't want to see ugly. Disappearing is one way to avoid ugly. Some of these girls know their man doesn't take "no" for an answer or they'll plead and cry for the woman to stay in a relationship.

Very much this too, I think a lot of girls just want to take the easy way out and just cutting off all ties is the easy way. They put their own feelings first and don't care about the guys its just easiest that way. Harsh but true.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: ML on January 08, 2018, 11:36:41 AM
Cutting off communication with someone, whether in social or business situations, without any explanation is just plain rude.  But this is a norm for FSU folks.

One exception would be when the other person says or writes something to you like . . . you are a dickhead . . . or has taken some action known to be offensive to the person.

Then, the recipient can stop all communication without any taint of being rude.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 08, 2018, 12:22:25 PM
Cutting off communication with someone, whether in social or business situations, without any explanation is just plain rude.  But this is a norm for FSU folks.

Exactly, this is what I mean they often have a rude, abrupt manner and suit themselves. Not to say they are unfriendly it's just their way. I think that this is just the top of the iceberg that it's more than that. That the whole society generally has a way of thinking and values that are distinct and different to western society. That's not to say there aren't any similarities or connection. But that the more we understand the outlook and way of thinking of FSU society the more successful WM will be in dating these women. So if you know the trains approaching and you're on the tracks you know how to act accordingly and not stuff up without realising it.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: msmob on January 08, 2018, 01:06:47 PM
Look, this is a sl.unusual case as the 'victim' has met the lady and is in the FSU..

A LOT of the generalisations I'm reading about 'FSU' folk being 'rude' - in that they stop communicating are EXACTLY the same thing I hear from FSU women ..

But one example : 2006/7 USA male who deals in supply labour for healthcare chats up pretty lady in Krasnodar region ( this is not SC) and goes on to meet - having 'stopped off on the way from the US to India.

They get on.. but suddenly comms stop

The lady is upset and asks me to help ...  with the info supplied, I find his hometown, his Ma and Pa ( Dad is a law officer ) and we find the guy is married ..

He was using his trips to have extra-curricular sport

So, can we say Southern Americans are 'rude' because of this guy ?

It's but one example...   

Keyboard romeos even get to the point where their 'intended' books an apartment and the guy never shows and 'disappears'






Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: BillyB on January 08, 2018, 02:58:26 PM

It's rude to shove a bayonet into someone's throat but all is fair in love and war. People should quit feeling sorry for themselves and not ask to get educated on what they did wrong. The fact they want the girl who just dumped them to educate them is probably one of the reasons a girl dumps a guy. They aren't looking for a man who has to be taught but has his shit together.

We should be at the point of our lives where we can find and attract quality people. If one relationship ends, the next one should be better. The end of a relationship isn't the end of the world and it could be the beginning of something better.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: msmob on January 08, 2018, 03:04:57 PM
No, BillyB ...

my examples are not 'fair' and certainly 'love' was not on the cards for one party ....

I think the term saddo applies

It doesn't hurt to explain, "Sorry - I met someone else and I want to pursue them ... "
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 08, 2018, 03:37:55 PM
I think you get it so right every time Billy your natural skill with people is often evident on your grasp of the situation and course of action to take.

I know a lot of western women take that attitude precisely that it is not up to them to tell a guy where he goes wrong. I've never really liked that attitude as I find it high minded and self centred. I think it's because the number of options they have in the west that they can easily get another man so us men have no worth to them that they just concentrate on being self serving. They have no experience of it being them since they are in demand so a WM will know he just has to put up with all her faults or have no girl at all. I don't expect a girl to five a blow by blow appraisal but a few words rather than her just walk away is not exactly asking anything. I do just find that whole 'let him work it out' when its highly unlikely a kind of ignorant attitude. A woman's perspective is often radically different from a guy that often the chances of a guy working it out or even being in the same universe is slim to none.

Women can also be a bit sensitive about certain stuff I find. A guy can say something and attach little meaning or thought to it. A girl on the other hand can really get her tail end up over what may have been a minor remark or way the guy is. That said though some guys can be particularly socially inept from the word go and discuss say how they picK up other woman to the woman they are with shortly after meeting or are just awkward in everything they do and say. If your a touchy woman just the occasional awkward moment may be a big deal for her, but then possibly she's with a guy she is not into anyway.

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 08, 2018, 03:44:58 PM
Anyone have this experience where a Russian woman you are dating suddenly cuts off all contact for no apparent reason?

I'm talking about a woman that you've actually seen in person, dated a few times or more, or even a girlfriend.

An expat buddy just recounted a story where his Russian gf suddenly broke off things, blocked all forms of communication and gave him the cold shoulder.  Now I don't know how long they were going out but this really shook him up.  Came outta left field.

He's late 20's so I assume the girl was around his age.   

I've had the occasional girl stop messaging after a few dates or turn cold.  But nothing this drastic with a girlfriend.


How well do you know 'buddy'? In lieu of restraining order, there could be a very viable reason why the stoppage of communication.


But in the absence of any action that may have provoked this 'reaction' from the gal, I can honestly say I've never experienced this at all regardless of nationality with any of my ex's.


Now, there has been about 3 gals I dated before that got pissed off with me and declared they don't ever want to see me again (not really full blown GFs either) in the morning, only to find out later that day, one was stalking me and crept up from behind us while I was busy with a PDA with a new date. The other one started banging on my door two days later begging to speak with me to hash things out. Full one hour banging/knocking till she finally gave up cause I didn't answer and took a nap. Go figure..


Your buddy's too young to be pre-occupied with 'closure'. With that kind'a gal, why chase someone like that who don't think much of you to at least be courteous and cite her reason. If she kicked him to the curb, no need to find yourself in the gutter.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 08, 2018, 06:13:23 PM
guys this was his girlfriend !!!   Not some random hookup or someone who he had a few dates with.  And he was saying that they both liked each other and then did a complete 180 turn around.

I didn't ask for all the details but he was quite distraught.  Seemed like very cold and rude behaviour, could be just youth.

Now one rather famous story about dumping is Rory McIlroy the golfer. He was engaged to a tennis player Caroline W...  I think a few days before the wedding he called and cancelled it all off!
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: BillyB on January 08, 2018, 06:24:09 PM
guys this was his girlfriend !!! 



Doesn't matter if it was his wife. Next! The more he builds up a relationship with a girl, the stranger it becomes when she blocks all communication with him and the faster he needs to run away from the girl. He can cry in his room or go on Mamba.ru and set up a date tonight. What's more fun?
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: ML on January 08, 2018, 07:25:08 PM
Hey guys and gals, you are making this too complicated.

Simple:  When  two persons are communicating, then each must reply to the other's correspondence.  Doesn't matter if they never met, dating, engaged, married, etc.

Why:  Because lack of reply could mean that they didn't get the correspondence and the first person has to send something again.  And they might have to continue sending 2, 3 or more times because they are really concerned about the possible lack of receipt.  This puts an undue and ridiculous burden on the person who had initiated the last correspondence.

If the second person doesn't want any further communication, the non-rude thing to do would be at least a one line message telling the first person that you intend to stop all communication.  If desired, the second person could even say fock-off.  At least then there would be closure.

There are at least two situations where a non-response is appropriate.
1) A message is received that states the sender wishes to stop communication.
2) A message is received from a person you have already told that you were done corresponding with them.

Now of course there are people in every country of the world who are rude in this category of failure to respond to on-going communication.

But in my experience, the FSU folks (men, women, social, business) are the leaders, hands-down.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 08, 2018, 07:44:28 PM
guys this was his girlfriend !!!   Not some random hookup or someone who he had a few dates with.  And he was saying that they both liked each other and then did a complete 180 turn around.

I didn't ask for all the details but he was quite distraught.  Seemed like very cold and rude behaviour, could be just youth.

Now one rather famous story about dumping is Rory McIlroy the golfer. He was engaged to a tennis player Caroline W...  I think a few days before the wedding he called and cancelled it all off!

Sting

IMHO, all the more reason for me. After the initial attempts and its become apparent she's ghosting me, no need to soak up any Air Supply greatest hits and sulk. Think about it, what's to bother with a biyatch?

Golden opportunity to snag another babe. New smell, new lips, likely bigger tits.
Title: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: 2tallbill on January 08, 2018, 07:45:07 PM
Anyone have this experience where a Russian woman you are dating suddenly cuts off all contact for no apparent reason?

That generally means she's banging somebody, either a local
or a visitor. She might come back later and say,
Her grandmother needed a liter of blood per day or
that she was in Siberia doing missionary with work seeing
eye dogs (more likely missionary and doggy position)

She might come back with a different excuse, but she's likely
(99.978%) gone for good.

Better luck next time.

Title: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: 2tallbill on January 08, 2018, 07:50:50 PM
guys this was his girlfriend !!!

FSUW treat a prospective man with all kinds of affection,
right up to the point that they stop. Then they treat them
like an old tuna fish sandwich found under the couch.

In my opinion, It's over,

Your friend should spend one day feeling sorry for himself,
then give himself a pep talk, then move on and find an
even better girl. Girls are just like buses, there is always
another one arriving shortly. The best way to get over a
girl is in the arms of another.

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: 2tallbill on January 08, 2018, 07:52:50 PM
Golden opportunity to snag another babe.

+1
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: mhr7 on January 08, 2018, 07:53:53 PM
I've dated 2 FSU women who cut communication with me out of anger. Both eventually came back after a little a$$ kissing :rolleyes:. You should try to get some more details Sting, would make it much easier to figure out.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: mhr7 on January 08, 2018, 07:56:26 PM
FSUW treat a prospective man with all kinds of affection,
right up to the point that they stop. Then they treat them
like an old tuna fish sandwich found under the couch.
Exactly.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: 2tallbill on January 08, 2018, 07:58:47 PM
I've dated 2 FSU women who cut communication with me out of anger.

You knew they were angry, correct? I've never had an FSUW
mad at me and not know all about it.

This friend of his doesn't know what happened.
If he said that she was yelling at him on the phone and
hung up, turned off her phone and didn't take his calls 
my answer would have been totally different.

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Brasscasing on January 08, 2018, 08:01:15 PM
Anyone have this experience where a Russian woman you are dating suddenly cuts off all contact for no apparent reason?

I'm talking about a woman that you've actually seen in person, dated a few times or more, or even a girlfriend.

An expat buddy just recounted a story where his Russian gf suddenly broke off things, blocked all forms of communication and gave him the cold shoulder.  Now I don't know how long they were going out but this really shook him up.  Came outta left field.

He's late 20's so I assume the girl was around his age.   

I've had the occasional girl stop messaging after a few dates or turn cold.  But nothing this drastic with a girlfriend.

guys this was his girlfriend !!!   Not some random hookup or someone who he had a few dates with.  And he was saying that they both liked each other and then did a complete 180 turn around.

I didn't ask for all the details but he was quite distraught.  Seemed like very cold and rude behaviour, could be just youth.

Now one rather famous story about dumping is Rory McIlroy the golfer. He was engaged to a tennis player Caroline W...  I think a few days before the wedding he called and cancelled it all off!

Alright, I'll bite. Realizing this is hear/say information you're relating ...

The moniker "girlfriend" might include a presumption to social interaction between the afore mentioned (former) couple and a wider circle of friends, acquaintances and maybe even family.

Has there been no enlightenment from anyone mutually acquainted as to cause?

Brass

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 08, 2018, 08:05:52 PM
I've dated 2 FSU women who cut communication with me out of anger. Both eventually came back after a little a$$ kissing :rolleyes:. You should try to get some more details Sting, would make it much easier to figure out.

From what I can tell this wasn't out of anger.  His version was that she told him she had strong feelings for him, but his were stronger and therefore they can't be together.  Very messed up logic.  Then she cut off all contact.

That's what makes it unusual.  It doesn't seem like she was mad, on the contrary. 
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: mhr7 on January 08, 2018, 08:07:30 PM
You knew they were angry, correct?

Yes, but I imagine there's more to this story than just being cut off out of the blue, I've never had this happen. But with both being young it may be just "ghosting", which tells me that this immature girl isn't worth losing any sleep over.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Brasscasing on January 08, 2018, 08:12:30 PM
From what I can tell this wasn't out of anger.  His version was that she told him she had strong feelings for him, but his were stronger and therefore they can't be together.  Very messed up logic.  Then she cut off all contact.

That's what makes it unusual.  It doesn't seem like she was mad, on the contrary.

Well that's not exactly out of the blue, Sting.

It's not much of an explanation but she is breaking up with him ..."therefore they can't be together"...

Billy's right, your buddy needs to move on.

Brass
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 08, 2018, 08:14:34 PM

The moniker "girlfriend" might include a presumption to social interaction between the afore mentioned (former) couple and a wider circle of friends, acquaintances and maybe even family.

Has there been no enlightenment from anyone mutually acquainted as to cause?

Brass

Brass,  I don't want to pry into his private life and ask what his mutual acquaintances think.  All I know is that he said they had strong feelings for each other and she suddenly ended it.  His exact words to me were "She is f**king stupid.".. So obviously he was hurt. 
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 08, 2018, 08:21:28 PM
Well that's not exactly out of the blue, Sting.

It's not much of an explanation but she is breaking up with him ..."therefore they can't be together"...

Billy's right, your buddy needs to move on.

Brass

From hearing him tell it to me it was completly out of the blue.  She just decided they need to break up.  And his reaction indicates that it was very unexpected.  Yeah I told him the same, cut your losses and move on. 

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Jumper on January 08, 2018, 08:22:34 PM
From what I can tell this wasn't out of anger.  His version was that she told him she had strong feelings for him, but his were stronger and therefore they can't be together.  Very messed up logic.  Then she cut off all contact.

That's what makes it unusual.  It doesn't seem like she was mad, on the contrary.

That explains everything incredibly clearly.
Why is he confused?

She's just not into him

It's that simple

Her words mean little.
Her actions are what count.

Men should remember that both about women,
 and also how women think of the mans words vs actions. Your words mean little to nothing, your actions speak volumns.

As far as why's she's not into him now, it's doesn't matter, it could be a million things or nothing,.
 she isn't anymore,  thats all that matters.

As far as why she said she was, but obviously isn't, also d oesn't matter ,and frankly it's not that strange of an occurrence in relationships between men and women, both sexes often say stuff   they don't mean, or they mean at the moment, but not later on.

I understand if it's out if the blue that it hurts, but it's not that unusual especially younger people
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Brasscasing on January 08, 2018, 08:27:21 PM
Brass,  I don't want to pry into his private life and ask what his mutual acquaintances think.  All I know is that he said they had strong feelings for each other and she suddenly ended it.  His exact words to me were "She is f**king stupid.".. So obviously he was hurt.

...In my experience more an expression of anger or frustration rather than hurt. However, my question regarding enlightenment has been answered.

Thanks.

Brass

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: BillyB on January 08, 2018, 08:28:17 PM
Well that's not exactly out of the blue, Sting.



Yeah, it seems she was nice enough to give him a reason for the breakup before it happened.


His exact words to me were "She is f**king stupid."



If he used angry words like that after she gave him her reason for breaking up, makes sense she felt it best and safest for her to end all communication. People can get ugly during breakups. Who wants to be around ugly?
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Jumper on January 08, 2018, 08:31:34 PM

Quote from: BillyB
Who wants to be around ugly?


I dunno billy, you arn't exactly pretty and your wife still loves you.

Same for me lol.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: BillyB on January 08, 2018, 08:38:00 PM
you arn't exactly pretty

Same for me lol.


It's what's on the inside that counts and our hearts and minds are sexy like Chippendale dancers.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Jumper on January 08, 2018, 08:42:56 PM
Lol perhaps!

And hey,I'm always amazed at the generosity of womankind.


Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 08, 2018, 08:45:49 PM

Now of course there are people in every country of the world who are rude in this category of failure to respond to on-going communication.

But in my experience, the FSU folks (men, women, social, business) are the leaders, hands-down.

Gotta agree 100%.  Business wise many Russians have little courtesy.  I've had job interviews where they don't bother to tell you if you got the job or not.  One time I was offered a job, started the visa process but the letter of invitation never came.  I e-mailed them a few times, got no response and figured they just changed their mind.  Rude but typical behaviour.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: southernX on January 08, 2018, 10:20:30 PM
Quote
Her words mean little.
Her actions are what count.

yes true as

he may have gotten silent strike  due to someThing he said that he was not aware of ?
she may have decided she cant get serious or marry him/anyone now or into the future ...so she cut it off

either way he will be wasting his time trying to figure out why

there is a very definite mentality of directness /rudeness , call it what you will but they dont tend to be soft and fluffy when there pride is hurt or you have criticised them in some way ,even if you where not aware you had

lucky your not married to her move on

SX
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 08, 2018, 11:11:37 PM
Just chalk this up to Newton's third law of motion - action v reaction.

I'm just not convinced that any person, regardless of nationality or culture, who had invested 'some deeper level of emotion' towards another, could just all of the sudden erased that reality with that particular person and/or object of affection without a word. Could be the OP's character player is so void of his inamorata's feelings that he's just clueless altogether.

I can't imagine any woman, IME, who was smitten enough with anyone on Wednesday to Monday and simply discard it Tuesday like it never happened.

Big gap missing in this scenario.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 09, 2018, 12:09:17 AM

I'm just not convinced that any person, regardless of nationality or culture, who had invested 'some deeper level of emotion' towards another, could just all of the sudden erased that reality with that particular person and/or object of affection without a word. Could be the OP's character player is so void of his inamorata's feelings that he's just clueless altogether.

I can't imagine any woman, IME, who was smitten enough with anyone on Wednesday to Monday and simply discard it Tuesday like it never happened.

Big gap missing in this scenario.

All I can go by is his story and what he told me.  If she has feelings for him why would she dump him.  I know him in a business setting, he's a pretty straight forward, honest guy.  No character issues but then I don't know how he is in his relationship.

She could be a cold, calculating woman with no regard for him or just a naive youth.  I was trying to figure out if it's more a cultural or age thing or just an anomaly. 
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: BillyB on January 09, 2018, 12:52:03 AM
If she has feelings for him why would she dump him. 



Like she said, he has stronger feelings. They're not matched up well in the feelings department.

 I once dated a girl and things were going great but I never felt like I was going to marry her. Her feelings became much stronger than mine and I knew I could not give her what she wanted, marriage. If I kept dating her with her feelings so strong for me, she would eventually feel like I was using her and wasting her time because a proposal would never come. I had to cut it off and go separate ways. Almost gave her silent treatment but not that extreme.  I had to get her upset at me so she'd let go. It was the only thing I could do to get her mind off me so she'd begin to look for a man that could give her what she wanted. Some may call me rude. I thought I was doing her a favor.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Maxx2 on January 09, 2018, 02:18:38 AM

Your friend should spend one day feeling sorry for himself,
then give himself a pep talk, then move on and find an
even better girl. Girls are just like buses, there is always
another one arriving shortly. The best way to get over a
girl is in the arms of another.


Solid gold advice.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: msmob on January 09, 2018, 02:36:15 AM

Solid gold advice.

Hmm, But IS it ? 

Falling in love with someone isn't always sensible and it's loss is not simply 'cured' by hopping on another bus....  Those that think so ( I believe ) are trying to come across as 'manly' and simply aren't being honest with themselves and ( to me) saying, "Look what a ( clueless) idiot I am"...
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Davo2 on January 09, 2018, 04:24:13 AM

Solid gold advice.

I needed advice like this years ago... Spent 20 years riding the same bus, but unbeknownst to me every other man was riding it also. I soon worked out there are more modern buses to ride and tried out numerous different routes, until a Russian bus caught my eye, now the local busses just don't seem the same in comparison  ;)
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: 2tallbill on January 09, 2018, 07:41:28 AM
Hmm, But IS it ? 

Falling in love with someone isn't always sensible and it's loss is not simply 'cured' by hopping on another bus....  Those that think so ( I believe ) are trying to come across as 'manly' and simply aren't being honest with themselves and ( to me) saying, "Look what a ( clueless) idiot I am"...

They are both young, they weren't married or had kids and it didn't work
out. He can spend lots of time being angry, disappointed and such or he
can shake it off and move on. I suggest shaking it off and moving on,
what would you suggest? 

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: msmob on January 09, 2018, 08:58:38 AM
They are both young, they weren't married or had kids and it didn't work
out. He can spend lots of time being angry, disappointed and such or he
can shake it off and move on. I suggest shaking it off and moving on,
what would you suggest?

Sorry Beel,

I was too quick to 'jump in' ..   didn't explain my PoV

Yes, the guy is young - and ?......   My parents had me at 23(Dad, just 23) and Mum 21 respectively ...   Death parted them and they had a good marriage.

If the guy loved the lass - simply trying to find a replacement is not a cure all - IF he doesn't know where / how he went 'wrong' in his choice, before how's he going to avoid the same, again ?

If you genuinely have strong feeling for someone - they don't disappear overnight

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 09, 2018, 10:55:22 AM
...
If you genuinely have strong feeling for someone - they don't disappear overnight


LMAO!


He didn't disappear. She did. Hello?!?


I know you gotta be getting the clue by now considering your statement above.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Jumper on January 09, 2018, 11:17:21 AM
He can ponder something as random as a woman's heart for eternity.

Sure he may have made mistakes, and some introspection can help in future relationships if that's the case.

Or she could have simply had a change of heart over him being her entire future man,met another man, sneezed three times in a row, or a million other things not directly related to some character flaw he may not even have.


Best to not even think about it and move on.
If anything he could reflect on why he dint read her better prior, because i agree with GQ, that there were some clues prior to a *you have stronger feelings, than I do talk.*
She had felt like that a bit,if not all along,  is most likely the case.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: msmob on January 09, 2018, 12:22:58 PM

LMAO!


He didn't disappear. She did. Hello?!?

Hmm...  'they' referred to the person breaking off contact ... :coffeeread:

I know you gotta be getting the clue by now considering your statement above.

I know you were simply inattentive - what is it with N.America, today- write first, read later  ? :)))
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 09, 2018, 01:29:57 PM
Hmm...  'they' referred to the person breaking off contact ... :coffeeread:

I know you were simply inattentive - what is it with N.America, today- write first, read later  ? :) ))


LMAO! ...and you're here doling out dating advice? I'll stack my 'social history' over yours, man. Any day that ends on a 'y'.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: msmob on January 09, 2018, 01:35:49 PM

LMAO! ...and you're here doling out dating advice? I'll stack my 'social history' over yours, man. Any day that ends on a 'y'.

Oh dear, you've gone from bad to worse ...

I'm discussing use of the English language and paying attention to what is written  - which you clearly [ still ] haven't   ... 


Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 09, 2018, 01:41:53 PM
He can ponder something as random as a woman's heart for eternity.

Sure he may have made mistakes, and some introspection can help in future relationships if that's the case.

Or she could have simply had a change of heart over him being her entire future man,met another man, sneezed three times in a row, or a million other things not directly related to some character flaw he may not even have.


Best to not even think about it and move on.
If anything he could reflect on why he dint read her better prior, because i agree with GQ, that there were some clues prior to a *you have stronger felling than I do talk.*
She had felt like that a bit,if not all along,  is most likely the case.


There was a prolific poster here (and RWG) before that was a psychologist. RKN777 I believe was his moniker. Great guy. He might be a friend of 'jb'. He was on a 'search', too. But the interesting thing was, he had a knack of separating 'logic'/rational state  from his emotional state, and this was so illuminating when he filed his own T/R.


What he observed during his tenure was the vast majority of newbies, especially those lacking in social skills at home, or those who are just lacking simple interaction evaluation was that, most of these guys (WM) are what he termed 'limerent'. Persons who easily fall in the state of 'limerence'. The false sense of falling in love, infatuation, obsession, etc...then all sense of logic all but disappear.


It was interesting how he was detailing his own experience/s during his T/R, faced with the same uncertainties and challenges most everyone faces during theirs. Yet in the end, he had the faculty to rationalize his experience and laid out his explanation.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 09, 2018, 01:44:42 PM
Oh dear, you've gone from bad to worse ...

I'm discussing use of the English language and paying attention to what is written  - which you clearly [ still ] haven't   ...


Oh! My comprehension of what you 'stated' is spot on. It's ironic to me of your continued display of cluelessness. Toss the shovel aside, the hole you're standing on is deep enough.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 09, 2018, 04:37:19 PM
Gotta agree 100%.  Business wise many Russians have little courtesy.  I've had job interviews where they don't bother to tell you if you got the job or not.  One time I was offered a job, started the visa process but the letter of invitation never came.  I e-mailed them a few times, got no response and figured they just changed their mind.  Rude but typical behaviour.

I think this is probably the type of behaviour at the heart of most FSW & FSU society. A kind of 'go for what you want' suit yourself sort of society and don't concern yourself about others. Hence why if the girl is into you all is fine but if she is not then she has her own agenda to being with you and won't concern herself how it might adversely affect you. So getting what you want being most important. Chances are its not done out of malice but a way Soviet society coping with the harsh conditions. i.e you've got to take what you can.

Probably not an exclusive value to the FSU either. Like a very working class relat I've of mine  here in the UK used to say, 'If you don't ask you don't get'. So a sort of focus on needing 'to get' what you want. We just need to find a FSW that wants us. Though I think some members on here may satisfy a FSW in others ways ;D
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Jumper on January 09, 2018, 06:10:28 PM
Trench,  FSU families /  friends are generally very close.They watch out for each other, in all aspects. it's not completely an *It's all me * centered society.
Soviet likely molded it more into a * closer ,tighter, circle of trust* and a general  distrust  of anyone outside of that small circle.

I think in some cases it carries past into  to things like life experiences or items.
If it's outside their experience, it's initially distrusted, or bad, until proven otherwise.

As far as building relationships, if you arnt in that circle, you are evaluated carefully until you are in it.
If you show any signs of not being trustworthy ,or someone to have a future with, you're out.Normally quite swiftly and cleanly , no fuss, no muss,and there is no reason to explain anything.

Regardless they are generally very hospitable and polite to any guest.

Also, a Russian man would have not had a second thought regarding this girl or her actions.


Granted thats all a bunch of generalities, that mean nothing when dealing with any given  individual.

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: chooter on January 09, 2018, 08:37:40 PM
I suppose I'm one of the more fortunate ones whose wife had already been working in Atlanta for five years and was pretty much fluent in English when we met, but not per say fluent in a lot of culture differences.

This may or may not help this person understand what happened in any way by the girl disappearing on him especially at his age.

My wife told me one time that a RW and an AM, or any foreign man, may have a lot of things in common but, she may not be into the relationship like the man is. She read this thread and made the comment:

At their young ages, no woman in the world knows what she really wants in life yet. It's possible, for whatever reasons, she wanted out of the relationship and she didn't exactly know how to tell him due to their culture and a language difference, and that does matter. So, maybe not wanting to get into a debate about it and neither of them not really understanding each other, she took a trait of a RW and took the high road out of the relationship and ended it with no explanation as to why.

I think what my wife was saying was, he didn't really understand her and she didn't really understand him. Then again, who knows other than her. Maybe she found another guy, Russian if so, and he impressed her more than the other guy.

Happens everyday in every country and culture of the world.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: southernX on January 09, 2018, 10:12:39 PM
Trench,  FSU families /  friends are generally very close.They watch out for each other, in all aspects. it's not completely an *It's all me * centered society.
Soviet likely molded it more into a * closer ,tighter, circle of trust* and a general  distrust  of anyone outside of that small circle.

I think in some cases it carries past into  to things like life experiences or items.
If it's outside their experience, it's initially distrusted, or bad, until proven otherwise.

As far as building relationships, if you arnt in that circle, you are evaluated carefully until you are in it.
If you show any signs of not being trustworthy ,or someone to have a future with, you're out.Normally quite swiftly and cleanly , no fuss, no muss,and there is no reason to explain anything.

Regardless they are generally very hospitable and polite to any guest.

Also, a Russian man would have not had a second thought regarding this girl or her actions.


Granted thats all a bunch of generalities, that mean nothing when dealing with any given  individual.

nailed it here jumper imo !!! 
if you are close family you are loved unconditionally , but you must earn that right , everyone one else is treated as an outsider who you dont share or talk with about personal issues etc

even the checkout ladies wont say hi and how is your day !!  they only ask if you want a bag etc etc ..its  all business  and factual directness relating to the need only to speak when you must ime

SX
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 09, 2018, 11:06:42 PM
Trench,  FSU families /  friends are generally very close.They watch out for each other, in all aspects. it's not completely an *It's all me * centered society.
Soviet likely molded it more into a * closer ,tighter, circle of trust* and a general  distrust  of anyone outside of that small circle.

I think in some cases it carries past into  to things like life experiences or items.
If it's outside their experience, it's initially distrusted, or bad, until proven otherwise.

As far as building relationships, if you arnt in that circle, you are evaluated carefully until you are in it.
If you show any signs of not being trustworthy ,or someone to have a future with, you're out.Normally quite swiftly and cleanly , no fuss, no muss,and there is no reason to explain anything.

Regardless they are generally very hospitable and polite to any guest.

Also, a Russian man would have not had a second thought regarding this girl or her actions.


Granted thats all a bunch of generalities, that mean nothing when dealing with any given  individual.

Admittedly I think you may be right on this. I think there is also an aspect of FSU society that once a man or woman know what they want it's decided and then that is the time for action. Perhaps she decided to move in another direction away from a relationship.

Certainly, I think it is true that it's imperative to get access to her inner personal life. I think that may have been the guy's problem here. It's something I failed to do with the last girl I met and like you say until you don't hold any special place with her and are on the outside. Being on the outside is not a good place to be for long as I think it tends to be bad for the relationship. I think no matter what you do if she does not give you access to her inner personal life you're screwed and it will not end well.

I think opening up about your personal life is probably the best thing to do as it works both ways. I think if your secretive then she is likely to be likewise. Again it's something I should have focused on more with the last girl and will do in future I think. As I found last time being on the outside is not a good place to be.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Brasscasing on January 09, 2018, 11:47:10 PM
Admittedly I think you may be right on this. I think there is also an aspect of FSU society that once a man or woman know what they want it's decided and then that is the time for action. Perhaps she decided to move in another direction away from a relationship.

Certainly, I think it is true that it's imperative to get access to her inner personal life. I think that may have been the guy's problem here. It's something I failed to do with the last girl I met and like you say until you don't hold any special place with her and are on the outside. Being on the outside is not a good place to be for long as I think it tends to be bad for the relationship. I think no matter what you do if she does not give you access to her inner personal life you're screwed and it will not end well.

I think opening up about your personal life is probably the best thing to do as it works both ways. I think if your secretive then she is likely to be likewise. Again it's something I should have focused on more with the last girl and will do in future I think. As I found last time being on the outside is not a good place to be.

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/eb/ebf13bef0cd380cff07c4797ae7486994af1597d449be583dbc4c99a8848b192.jpg)

Brass
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 10, 2018, 12:32:16 AM
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/eb/ebf13bef0cd380cff07c4797ae7486994af1597d449be583dbc4c99a8848b192.jpg)

Brass

Too true :)
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: ML on January 10, 2018, 09:12:58 AM
she took a trait of a RW and took the high road out of the relationship and ended it with no explanation as to why.


That was not the high road; it was the low road.
Seems you are starting to think like a Russian.

Further, there is no need to explain why.
There is no need to get into back and forth arguments about  the  ending.

The only thing required for decency is to reply to correspondence from another person (once only) and tell that you do not intend to continue the correspondence/relationship.

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 10, 2018, 10:05:39 AM
All I can go by is his story and what he told me.  If she has feelings for him why would she dump him.  I know him in a business setting, he's a pretty straight forward, honest guy.  No character issues but then I don't know how he is in his relationship.

She could be a cold, calculating woman with no regard for him or just a naive youth.  I was trying to figure out if it's more a cultural or age thing or just an anomaly.


Staying within your context, bottom line is I hope your buddy finds the fortitude to wash all these off and get on with life. The sooner the better. Put away the Air Supply Greatest Hits CD as Smooth Operator will always say. At his age, there'll be plenty more social excursions of the type so best he start honing his skills now to better prepare for his future.


As for projecting a person's character unto everything in his life, one of my buddy is actively in contention in UFC. The dude is one bad-arse m'fcker. But you wouldn't find a sappier pussy whip when it comes to women. There's plenty of the type out there in our midst. Strange beasts we men are, just as our female counterparts are, except they're more sinister than we can ever hope to be.


As for the inquiry in your last statement, I belong in the camp of *women are women the world over* when all is said and done, and I'm talking straight from direct experience. I would be more inclined to attribute this scenario to 'age'. However, the poignant fact all must remember, sadly, and let me stress this once more, any girl is not worth the sneeze if she dispensed with the type of character display you shared with us. If this gal cannot respect the man enough, much less the sappy emotional garbage, to spend a minute to tell him 'why' considering the time they spent together, then your buddy will experience better life progression watching grass grow. With the apparent exception of one poster in this thread, who'd want a woman like that in their life to begin with?
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Brasscasing on January 10, 2018, 10:51:57 AM
That was not the high road; it was the low road.
Seems you are starting to think like a Russian.

Further, there is no need to explain why.
There is no need to get into back and forth arguments about  the  ending.

The only thing required for decency is to reply to correspondence from another person (once only) and tell that you do not intend to continue the correspondence/relationship.


Staying within your context, bottom line is I hope your buddy finds the fortitude to wash all these off and get on with life. The sooner the better. Put away the Air Supply Greatest Hits CD as Smooth Operator will always say. At his age, there'll be plenty more social excursions of the type so best he start honing his skills now to better prepare for his future.


As for projecting a person's character unto everything in his life, one of my buddy is actively in contention in UFC. The dude is one bad-arse m'fcker. But you wouldn't find a sappier pussy whip when it comes to women. There's plenty of the type out there in our midst. Strange beasts we men are, just as our female counterparts are, except they're more sinister than we can ever hope to be.


As for the inquiry in your last statement, I belong in the camp of *women are women the world over* when all is said and done, and I'm talking straight from direct experience. I would be more inclined to attribute this scenario to 'age'. However, the poignant fact all must remember, sadly, and let me stress this once more, any girl is not worth the sneeze if she dispensed with the type of character display you shared with us. If this gal cannot respect the man enough, much less the sappy emotional garbage, to spend a minute to tell him 'why' considering the time they spent together, then your buddy will experience better life progression watching grass grow. With the apparent exception of one poster in this thread, who'd want a woman like that in their life to begin with?

According to Sting she did tell him.

Granted not the most detailed explanation of a reason to break up I've read but she did tell him it was over.

I don't want to turn this into an old guy complaint thread but (as GQ touched on) I attribute the circumstances of this related story as much on 'the times we live in' as anything else.

In an age where for most young folk 'Notice Of Termination Of Relationship' is being unfriended on Facebook, I think we may be placing too much emphasis on the responsibility of the young woman to "explain herself".

 IMO Chooter's post up thread is as good an explanation as any as to what happened here.

Brass
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 10, 2018, 11:46:17 AM
According to Sting she did tell him...


Brass, I missed that (Reply 30)! Good calling that out. That's plenty enough for me, as I'm sure (speculative) some dialogue continued precisely after that for a bit. The title is also misleading. it isn't exactly a 'sudden silent treatment'.  >:(

The gal broke-up, go home. Elvis already left the building.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 10, 2018, 10:07:47 PM


Brass, I missed that (Reply 30)! Good calling that out. That's plenty enough for me, as I'm sure (speculative) some dialogue continued precisely after that for a bit. The title is also misleading. it isn't exactly a 'sudden silent treatment'.  >:(

The gal broke-up, go home. Elvis already left the building.

Yeah I probably shouldn't have titled it "Sudden silent treatment" as she did give him a reason no matter how far-fetched. but then she cut him out of her life with no regard.  Cold hearted. My impression from him was that it was very sudden and he was left pondering what happened.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Yes on January 11, 2018, 02:37:01 AM
Western society is much more open and outward than the FSU society, which tends to be much more closed and inward. And even though one can notice it right off the bat, its subtleties are harder to spot.

To a Westerner, this inwardness/distancing will come off as rude. I know many Americans who thought me rude at first because I don't tend to smile openly and keep to myself, only to say how surprised by what a great guy I was :P after they met and got to know me better (might be why I fit in well here). And even though I find the overall society to be generally ruder than in the West, her reaction to him is normal from what I've seen here, not only in personal situations but business situations as well.

I'm sure 70+ years of communism attributed much to this "phenomenon" as anything. While some here will contend that it is very rude, it's the norm from their perspective and one should accept it as part of that difference in mentality. This isn't a "ghosting' thing, it's cultural, and has been going on long before ghosting became a catch-phrase due to the advent of dating sites like Tinder and the millennial mindset.

I have found it somewhat strange (still do BTW) that people whom you have done business with before would walk right by you outside the office as if you're the invisible man without a hint of eye contact or greeting even though you know they've seen you from a short distance only to look away. Small talk is virtually non-existent here. I've spent more than my share of time trying to explain to business people here the importance of acknowledging people from the West in this manner (even just making eye contact and saying hi) if they wanted to keep their business in the future.

What many Westerners fail to take into consideration is that we are only 1 generation removed from the end of communism and I suspect it will take a couple more for things to change regarding this. It's slowly changing as more FSU people travel abroad and see and appreciate how other cultures communicate more openly. Nevertheless, old habits die hard, I digress...

The girl in question more than likely didn't see a future with this guy and didn't want all the drama associated with a breakup. He simply got cut from the "team". Of course, she lied about her reasons but, if you're out, you're out. No need to hash it out; it's over, that's it*. Girls here also take rejection much harder than WW IMO, understand its implications quite well, and would rather not deal with it even from the other side of the fence, so to speak.

Hopefully, he moves on. I mean, a normal guy in his 20's shouldn't have any problem finding another girl (yes, just as nice, pretty, etc. blah blah blah) like her. They're just around every corner here. I get that he's heartbroken, but finding another just like the other in the FSU is much, much easier than in the West, hands down. Stop wondering why, stop looking for an explanation, and just mark it down as experience.

I will also say that the difference in mentality between both cultures can be a problem if a guy/girl doesn't adjust. Sorry, but there is a definite difference in thinking that can affect a relationship in how FSU people see things as opposed to a Westerner. I've heard it from many RW when I have spoken to them about dating foreign men that this difference was just too much for them to deal with; subtle as it may seem.

These are but a few of my observations from living in Russia for almost 15 years.

*that's it is a very common phrase you hear in these parts when you ask for a reason why to something, e.g. I don't like football. really, why? I don't like it, and that's it. No other explanation is necessary, nor will you get one ;D).
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 11, 2018, 07:24:01 AM
look guys maybe her English is just not very good. Have you ever tried to explain something as nuanced as feelings in Russian? you think it's going to sound very courteous and classy? Give it a whirl see how far you get. Perhaps she thought she made an honest effort to deliver all the info that needed to be delivered but the guy just didn't get it or ignored it, so there was only one recourse left. No big these-Russians-are-so-cold-and-mysterious.

Or could it be that he's just playing the victim card? Maybe his jokes were too crude, who knows? Not everything people say freely to friends and family in the West is anywhere near acceptable in Russia. Just something for you to think about.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Boethius on January 11, 2018, 09:43:07 AM

look guys maybe her English is just not very good. Have you ever tried to explain something as nuanced as feelings in Russian? you think it's going to sound very courteous and classy? Give it a whirl see how far you get. Perhaps she thought she made an honest effort to deliver all the info that needed to be delivered but the guy just didn't get it or ignored it, so there was only one recourse left. No big these-Russians-are-so-cold-and-mysterious.

Or could it be that he's just playing the victim card? Maybe his jokes were too crude, who knows? Not everything people say freely to friends and family in the West is anywhere near acceptable in Russia. Just something for you to think about.
I suspect you are correct.

I asked the better half's nephew about this.  He is recently married, but was single for 20 years, and changed girlfriends every 10 months or so, most of whom he lived with.  He usually broke it off when they wanted marriage (my observation from afar and total speculation on my part, I could be wrong on the reason).  His response was "I only wish I'd been given the silent treatment."
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 11, 2018, 10:13:34 AM
look guys maybe her English is just not very good. Have you ever tried to explain something as nuanced as feelings in Russian? you think it's going to sound very courteous and classy? Give it a whirl see how far you get. Perhaps she thought she made an honest effort to deliver all the info that needed to be delivered but the guy just didn't get it or ignored it, so there was only one recourse left. No big these-Russians-are-so-cold-and-mysterious...

Insightful. I can agree to a point.

Bottom line is, the gal broke up. Not much really need to be dissected any deeper than that really. One is just asking for trouble when they try to. Which most of the (sane) men here had been trying to say - *let it go, It's over, move on, get over it, find another gal asap*.

Men who have a need to be 'nursed are always going to be demanding annoying over-analysis which usually evolve into hard exchanges, then argument, then hate...then next thing you know, he'll pop in Air Supply's *Here I am*,

http://youtu.be/GVgtsPPuBXk

...then he will never find closure, curses all women around his world, calls them obese, blames feminism, become socially dysfunctional and a misfit, etc...then, bwalla, welcomes himself to the world of the MOB, marries, then screws that up, too. Then he'll repeat the process, and likely will until Alzheimer finally does him in.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Brasscasing on January 11, 2018, 10:29:08 AM
...Men who have a need to be 'nursed are always going to be demanding annoying over-analysis which usually evolve into hard exchanges, then argument, then hate...then next thing you know, he'll pop in Air Supply's *Here I am*,

...then he will never find closure, curses all women around his world, calls them obese, blames feminism, become socially dysfunctional and a misfit, etc...then, bwalla, welcomes himself to the world of the MOB, marries, then screws that up, too. Then he'll repeat the process, and likely will until Alzheimer finally does him in.

 :ROFL:

...Quote of the week, GQ. :D

Brass
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 11, 2018, 02:10:17 PM
Well on the moving on part he may strike it lucky and get the right girl next time or he may make the same mistake again or another mistake. If he learns what went wrong before then he should be in better stead to avoid that problem in the future IF he learns from that mistake.

If he can't take it in and learn or doesn't want to know why then he could be making the same mistake over and over. He might be very socially inept/awkward and embarrassing to be around or he may have just been with the wrong girl. She may have just liked him and never loved him. It would of course help knowing just what her reason was?

I accept that I am not without my faults which I have admitted to in the past here. Some guys just can't admit that they too have faults as they are too proud to admit it - some get very defensive indeed getting all adversarial at the mere thought of it. They tend to be closed off to developing as a person and it's their loss in being like this. Likewise  it's not just the man that has faults bit also the woman. As fellow men we tend to focus on what the man did wrong or was wrong with him on here. The woman though can have many faults, too materialistic, too volatile, too moralistic, poor social skills,  etc, etc.

I think a guy who is good socially doesn't need an analysis of what went wrong every time. He knows it just wasn't right but naturally usually gets it right as he is well tuned in what to go for when it appears and when to hold and when to fold. A guy who is not socially skilled though needs more help in these matters. Once he knows what to look out for then he will recognise the signs being subtlely given off next time and will know what to go for and avoid and when to move on. To my mind I think there is generally regular types of situations that come about again and again in relationships and once you know how to deal with them once you know how to deal with them every time the occur in the future.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 11, 2018, 02:53:12 PM
Well on the moving on part he may strike it lucky and get the right girl next time or he may make the same mistake again or another mistake. If he learns what went wrong before then he should be in better stead to avoid that problem in the future IF he learns from that mistake.

If he can't take it in and learn or doesn't want to know why then he could be making the same mistake over and over. He might be very socially inept/awkward and embarrassing to be around or he may have just been with the wrong girl. She may have just liked him and never loved him. It would of course help knowing just what her reason was?

I accept that I am not without my faults which I have admitted to in the past here. Some guys just can't admit that they too have faults as they are too proud to admit it - some get very defensive indeed getting all adversarial at the mere thought of it. They tend to be closed off to developing as a person and it's their loss in being like this. Likewise  it's not just the man that has faults bit also the woman. As fellow men we tend to focus on what the man did wrong or was wrong with him on here. The woman though can have many faults, too materialistic, too volatile, too moralistic, poor social skills,  etc, etc.

I think a guy who is good socially doesn't need an analysis of what went wrong every time. He knows it just wasn't right but naturally usually gets it right as he is well tuned in what to go for when it appears and when to hold and when to fold. A guy who is not socially skilled though needs more help in these matters. Once he knows what to look out for then he will recognise the signs being subtlely given off next time and will know what to go for and avoid and when to move on. To my mind I think there is generally regular types of situations that come about again and again in relationships and once you know how to deal with them once you know how to deal with them every time the occur in the future.


The one thing I spot in all/most of your posts, TC, is you have this silly perception that all women, whether domestic or abroad, are somehow beneath and less in state and being than you. No one, men or women, is 'all that', you know.


Unless that changes about you...you're screwed no matter how much 'learning' you think you're doing.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Bounder on January 11, 2018, 03:23:54 PM
No, this guy is still in Russia.  He's been working there a while and it happened all of a sudden.  I don't know how they met but it was probably like how you would meet a local girl in your city. 

So it's not like he was flying over there for visits, they were dating normally.

I'm just wondering if this is more a Russian mentality or due to youth.

No, this guy is still in Russia.  He's been working there a while and it happened all of a sudden.  I don't know how they met but it was probably like how you would meet a local girl in your city. 

So it's not like he was flying over there for visits, they were dating normally.

I'm just wondering if this is more a Russian mentality or due to youth.

I think there's a youth factor, for sure.  What it is I don't know.  It is "ghosting", which is rude and nasty and becoming more common.

That being said, I have the misfortune of being dumped by Russian girls.  It is like being dumped like a stone into a pond.  When they are done, it's done.  Perhaps they invented ghosting before the internet.

I also happen to fully agree with everything in Yes' post on this subject.  It is spot on and instructive.

I'm curious though, why are you writing for a "friend"?
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 11, 2018, 03:36:26 PM
Guys I cannot understand, if it's such a painful experience for you why do you bother? You want American, buy American  ;) .
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 11, 2018, 03:40:33 PM

The one thing I spot in all/most of your posts, TC, is you have this silly perception that all women, whether domestic or abroad, are somehow beneath and less in state and being than you. No one, men or women, is 'all that', you know.


Unless that changes about you...you're screwed no matter how much 'learning' you think you're doing.

Outside of the main prosperous cities women are generally poorer, not all but many. In the main prosperous cities a fair few dare say earn more than me. I know now from you guys & girls here of the need not to look at them as of lower status. I've never looked at them as inferior to me  yet in terms of status some that I date are of a significantly less financial status. This I don't mind but problems not of my making have come about as a result of this difference.

I think a lot of guys encounter these issues such as getting a visa for the girl or her seeing the guy as a walking cash card whether they are into him or not. A lot of girls out there see a WM who visits as able to afford anything as no burden in him doing so for them. The more wiser perhaps older ones know this is not the case and it will kill  most relationships. It's not so much an attitude towards women of lower financial status it's just the circumstance of it that causes issues. Some are issues where the woman is genuine others where she is not. It's well known that some women look to use a guy as an immigration mule or seek his wealth where others only seek to find love and family.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Bounder on January 11, 2018, 03:46:00 PM
Guys I cannot understand, if it's such a painful experience for you why do you bother? You want American, buy American  ;) .

I also ask myself somedays, why)))  One guy I know dates Phillipinos only in Moscow as the Russian girls are "too capricious" in his opinion.  I get "capricious Russian girls" but not Philipino girls.  I'm joking a bit, there are lots of nice and normal Russian girls, I just haven't got to meet one yet.

By the way I'm not American, but more like you Fashionista.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 11, 2018, 03:54:14 PM
I also ask myself somedays, why)))  One guy I know dates Phillipinos only in Moscow as the Russian girls are "too capricious" in his opinion.  I get "capricious Russian girls" but not Philipino girls.  I'm joking a bit, there are lots of nice and normal Russian girls, I just haven't got to meet one yet.

By the way I'm not American, but more like you Fashionista.


More like me? You moved to Canada from Russia?  I think you are the bizarro me, you moved from Canada to Russia and you are a guy. I am joking of course  :) . Maybe it's Moscow. I don't like this city myself. On the other hand the problem in a foreign country is that you don't feel the early telltale signs like the locals do, you think maybe this person isn't an idiot, maybe it's cultural, etc. How long have you been in Russia?
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 11, 2018, 04:08:02 PM
Guys I cannot understand, if it's such a painful experience for you why do you bother? You want American, buy American  ;) .

I think many guys here would date locally if it was in any way a decent option. It is after all more easier. A few just dig the whole Russian slavic thing so much that they would date there whatever. Situation remains that whatever the obstacles or pain in FSU dating it pales in comparison to the state of dating locally. For a guy it is no joy sending (spamming) out endless emails to loads of girls with no reply. Or dating them and finding the relationship is a no go as they are non serious or have mental problems so bad they are incapable of a relationship.

I agree with Bounder here. FSW tend to do what suits them and move on. Why waste time on a person/situation who will never suit? Rude perhaps, expedient certaintly. I found myself in this situation with the second girl I met, a flimsy corny excuse and that's it. Even after giving the excuse she was freindly towards me before departing but when they have made up their minds that's it.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Bounder on January 11, 2018, 04:37:37 PM

More like me? You moved to Canada from Russia?  I think you are the bizarro me, you moved from Canada to Russia and you are a guy. I am joking of course  :) . Maybe it's Moscow. I don't like this city myself. On the other hand the problem in a foreign country is that you don't feel the early telltale signs like the locals do, you think maybe this person isn't an idiot, maybe it's cultural, etc. How long have you been in Russia?

We must be the inside-out version of each other.)))  I'll have soon been here a year.  I like Moscow a lot and I'm very happy here.

I sometimes wonder how to  break through with the girls though.  I'm not afraid to meet the one who don't really speak English, we all do our best.  And it's most likely that I meet an non-English speaker, just based on numbers.  Of course, the non-English speaking ones (the ones I will most likely meet) are more completely Russian with less awareness of outside culture.  I have to admit, having tried this a few times, it is difficult for me to meet their expectation of a man.  I'm not a Russian man and they don't know anything about where I come from.  I'm trying to become more like a Russian man day after day).  But I know I will never be a Russian man.  Just a Canadian man living in Russia.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: msmob on January 11, 2018, 04:51:51 PM
I'd like to suggest that the point re FSU attitudes ( example 'not' stopping in the street to make small talk)  be examined further.

In my near two decades of living with / working with FSU folk - it's just not my experience. 

SC is always amazed how many times we get stopped in the street by 'strangers' to her - who know me ..... for a chat.

May be it's a Moscow 'thang' - I'm never there long enough  and SC prefers Sochi life having lived in Moscow or the greatest proportion of her existence.

I find FSU folk just as approachable - if not more so - than in London .. and once you've cracked the veneer - they are as friendly as the Irish.

Even in minus -30/-40C Siberia I simply don't agree that small talk isn't common..



Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Boethius on January 11, 2018, 04:55:42 PM
It's not an FSU attitude in my experience either, though mine is limited to Kyiv.


The better half does spend time in Moscow and St. Petersburg, as he has relatives in both, and I asked him about this.  It's not his experience either.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 11, 2018, 06:01:06 PM
I'll have soon been here a year. 


Oh, so you are a fob :D . Don't worry, it'll pass eventually. After just a few years you will eventually feel, well, not Russian, but no longer a Canadian either.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: mhr7 on January 11, 2018, 06:08:31 PM
it is difficult for me to meet their expectation of a man.  I'm not a Russian man and they don't know anything about where I come from.  I'm trying to become more like a Russian man day after day).  But I know I will never be a Russian man.  Just a Canadian man living in Russia.

This is my fourth year in Russia, my seventh in the FSU. I still have times of utter frustration with the girl I've been with for 2 years and every now and then I have to remind her that I'm not Russian and have no idea what she expects.

mob/Boe- My experience is the same as yours.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Davo2 on January 11, 2018, 07:11:39 PM
My friend has been in Yekaterinburg this week. He spent 2 days sightseeing while his fiancť had some family matters to attend to. He was surprised by how welcoming the locals were, and how willing they were to chat with a total stranger, mind you he's a bit of an extrovert and has no shame at all.... anyone who happened to make eye contact would have little chance of escaping him without sharing their life story  ;) ..... Maybe it has a lot to do with your personality and how approachable you are?
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: mendeleyev on January 11, 2018, 07:55:06 PM
"Ghosting" is a term with which I am not familiar. What does it mean?

Boe, is there a Russian equivalent to the term?
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: LAman on January 11, 2018, 08:08:52 PM
"Ghosting" is a term with which I am not familiar. What does it mean?

Boe, is there a Russian equivalent to the term?


Opposite of love is indifference.

Ghosting is having someone that you believe cares about you, whether it be a friend or someone you are dating, disappear from contact without any explanation at all.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Brasscasing on January 11, 2018, 08:17:51 PM
"Ghosting" is a term with which I am not familiar. What does it mean?

Hiya Mendy,

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ghosting

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/living-forward/201511/is-why-ghosting-hurts-so-much

Not sure if there's a Russian equivalent or translation.

More a millennial and younger age group phenomenon within dating/relationships.

Technically, Sting's friend did not experience "ghosting" as the young lady did break up with him prior to ceasing communication.

Brass
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: LAman on January 11, 2018, 08:24:13 PM

More a millennial and younger age phenomenon within dating/relationships.


Not really, happened to me last summer with a 39 yr old women( a beauty). Things can and do break off to others rather quickly also....only have seen this in Russia/Ukraine, never at home where you could possibly run into.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: JayH on January 11, 2018, 08:28:50 PM
..... Maybe it has a lot to do with your personality and how approachable you are?

Somehow that is the key I think.
Moby commented upthread  about his lady being surprised  at people stopping to chat he knows ( or met somehow)  and his lady being surprised ( this also relates to Moby's other thread about his journey and undertaking it without a Russian speaker on board)  -- I can 100 % relate to that.
My lady is constantly surprised at people speaking to me !  And more - people who I have not previously met - getting into a conversation ! "how  do you understand them"?  & How do they understand you"?  This is everyone from the babushka in the market -- to guys doing wheelstands away from the lights on motorcycles  who did a u-turn to come back to stop and chat ! then-on finding I speak only English -=calls his mates who arrive in an attention getting  crescendo of noise  --me chatting to 6 guys on bikes !A few days later - walking with my lady-- the guys ride past and see me-- promptly mount the kerb to come and chat! My lady is " my god,what is going on " !! etc" How do you know them'?
I have found that type of friendliness all over Ukraine & Crimea .( not commenting on Russia -- as not a lot of time there and in a fairly protected environment) .
I have also been treated with great kindness by complete strangers -- and people being helpful to their own disadvantage.
The only thing I am a little careful of --is getting too chatty with beautiful girls ! No amount of "I was just being friendly" gets past my lady! ( although she does laugh about it now !)
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Brasscasing on January 11, 2018, 08:29:44 PM
Not really, happened to me last summer with a 39 yr old women( a beauty). Things can and do break off to others rather quickly also....only have seen this in Russia/Ukraine, never at home where you could possibly run into.

Yeah, that's why I didn't post exclusively a millennial and younger....

It probably does happen in older age groups to some degree as well.

Brass
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 11, 2018, 08:33:19 PM

I'm curious though, why are you writing for a "friend"?

I'm not writing for him.  Just curious if this is normal behaviour. We were discussing business related things and I asked how's life over in Moscow.  He regaled his story of how his ex-gf all of a sudden broke it off.  I could tell he was deeply, genuinely hurt by it.  She blocked him from all contact.

I didn't get this type of treatment with girls in Moscow, maybe I was lucky or dealing with more mature people.  If a girl didn't want to date me anymore or vice versa we'd say it and end it amicably. I still keep in touch with some as friends. 
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: JayH on January 11, 2018, 08:40:35 PM
I'm not writing for him.  Just curious if this is normal behaviour. We were discussing business related things and I asked how's life over in Moscow.  He regaled his story of how his ex-gf all of a sudden broke it off.  I could tell he was deeply, genuinely hurt by it.  She blocked him from all contact.

I didn't get this type of treatment with girls in Moscow, maybe I was lucky or dealing with more mature people.  If a girl didn't want to date me anymore or vice versa we'd say it and end it amicably. I still keep in touch with some as friends.

Most of the possibilities have been covered in thread by a few of the sensible posters.! :)

"I still keep in touch with some as friends."

I can relate to that --- but-- when a girls expectations are raised -- and not met -- she may well cross you off permanently and move on.
All the possibilities go out the window--if she simply met someone else !!
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 11, 2018, 08:44:30 PM

Oh, so you are a fob :D . Don't worry, it'll pass eventually. After just a few years you will eventually feel, well, not Russian, but no longer a Canadian either.

Once Canadian, always Canadian!  If you go to Papa's Bar in Moscow on Nikolskaya Street the owner Doug is Canadian.  Been in Russia for 20 odd years.  Has about 50 Maple leaf flags adorned in the bar.  Had a nice chat with him, he loves Russia but bleeds red and white.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 11, 2018, 09:46:53 PM
Well I like Moscow :D I mean what's not to like? The architecture and parks in Central Moscow are great. The people I do find some of them have a bit of a detached persona to start with but after a little while say 15-30 minutes or so maybe a bit less or more of being familiar with your presence are more open. The more familiar they become with you the more open I think they become and the more chatty.

I've noticed the two girls I spent most time with in Ukraine would both have people they don't know engage them in conversation here & there. When I was in the line to buy some groceries this old guy was showing me the cover of a lad's mag pointing out how scantily clad the woman was ;D

I think there is a kind of slight exterior of coldness but it depends on the person and though perhaps a FSU trait is not impenetrable.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 11, 2018, 10:02:09 PM

Of course, the non-English speaking ones (the ones I will most likely meet) are more completely Russian with less awareness of outside culture.  I have to admit, having tried this a few times, it is difficult for me to meet their expectation of a man.


Bounder can you elaborate on their expectations? 

I didn't even try dating a non-English speaking girl.  No point.  My Russian is so bad that 90% of the conversation will be in English.

There was one time where I had a frustrating time. I scheduled a date for a walk in the park.  I said meet in front of the metro entrance.  She ended up driving and tried to pick me up in the car at some street corner.  This was a huge congested area and I couldn't figure out where she wanted to meet.  I said to park and go to the metro.  She insisted on the entrance to the park.  Now there were several "parks" and monuments, walking areas in this place.  I had never been here before.

I basically was wandering around for close to an hour trying to find it.  I kept telling her to go to the metro but she refused.  After 10 phone calls or so I eventually did find the entrance.  Funny thing it was no more than a 10-12 minute walk from the metro.  We were both fuming, me at her refusal to meet at the metro, and her at thinking it was easy to find the park entrance. 

Her English wasn't great but good enough to communicate.  It was more the attitude of her not compromising on figuring out a solution. 
At least she waited for me but it was one of the most silent walks I've ever had!   
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 11, 2018, 10:18:21 PM
Her English wasn't great but good enough to communicate.  It was more the attitude of her not compromising on figuring out a solution. 

This is the sort of attitude my last girl had, totally uncompromising, have many others here found the same? A kind of agree with what they say or nothing happens sort of attitude.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Davo2 on January 11, 2018, 10:23:39 PM
The only thing I am a little careful of --is getting too chatty with beautiful girls ! No amount of "I was just being friendly" gets past my lady! ( although she does laugh about it now !)
Despite not meeting her yet this is something I've had experience with recently and I've seen a little bit of jealously creeping in with some of my female friends.
I sent a video from a birthday party where I was sitting next to woman, this drew the question "Is this woman someone I intend to date?"
More recently I noticed her not as chatty as usual. Eventually she said, I might meet good Australian woman tomorrow and I should be open to that as it's easier for me than having a long distance relationship with her. I thought this was going to lead to her saying goodbye. I made it clear that I'm happy being single atm until we meet, and even if we only stay friends and there are no romantic feelings, I will remain single for the immediate future. I hadn't realized that another female friend had put a picture of us both on my Face book page, with our arms around each  other. My FSU friend can see my page and I'm almost certain this initiated her backing off in our conversations....things thankfully have now returned to  normal.
I guess this also ties into this thread  topic, simple things that we don't even think about, like a picture with your friends can be misinterpreted and cause issues.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 11, 2018, 10:31:43 PM
I also ask myself somedays, why)))  One guy I know dates Phillipinos only in Moscow as the Russian girls are "too capricious" in his opinion.  I get "capricious Russian girls" but not Philipino girls.  I'm joking a bit, there are lots of nice and normal Russian girls, I just haven't got to meet one yet.


This has got to be the most unusual thing I've ever heard!  To only date a Phillipino in Moscow?!  That's akin to a vegetarian going to a steakhouse!  Why wouldn't he just move to a place where he likes the women.

I'm Asian, I think I saw 2-3 Phillipinos in my entire time in Moscow. I don't know how he would find someone.
I met Asian looking women, Chinese, Korean but they were Russian born and had a Russian mentality. 

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: JayH on January 11, 2018, 11:05:03 PM
  To only date a Phillipino

The word is Filipino   -- easy to understand Bounder channelling Trenchcoat type ignorance --more is expected of you !
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Boethius on January 11, 2018, 11:21:04 PM
"Ghosting" is a term with which I am not familiar. What does it mean?

Boe, is there a Russian equivalent to the term?

Hi Mendy,

"Ghosting" is a term that has come into use since the texting age.  I don't know if there is now an equivalent term in Russian, but there were a lot of terms used that described this in the past, depending on the context.  The one that comes closest that I know -

Лёг на дно, ушёл/ушла в подполье

I don't know if there is a direct equivalent that is more "modern"/up to date.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 12, 2018, 12:09:20 AM
The word is Filipino   -- easy to understand Bounder channelling Trenchcoat type ignorance --more is expected of you !

sorry yeah must have unconsciously spelt it incorrectly after seeing  Bounder write it that way.   

"more is expected.." I don't get this line,  it's a spelling error no more or less.  Chalk it up to me typing too quickly.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 12, 2018, 02:43:06 AM
Hi Mendy,

"Ghosting" is a term that has come into use since the texting age.  I don't know if there is now an equivalent term in Russian, but there were a lot of terms used that described this in the past, depending on the context.  The one that comes closest that I know -

Лёг на дно, ушёл/ушла в подполье

I don't know if there is a direct equivalent that is more "modern"/up to date.


I can suggest a few, послать в игнор/включить игнор/шифроваться

Anyhow, the idea is that another person can quickly take a hint and there is no big drama that has to be dealt with. You would appreciate this in the country where there is practically no legal recourse against stalkers.  You just gotta hide.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 12, 2018, 04:10:19 AM

I can suggest a few, послать в игнор/включить игнор/шифроваться

Anyhow, the idea is that another person can quickly take a hint and there is no big drama that has to be dealt with. You would appreciate this in the country where there is practically no legal recourse against stalkers.  You just gotta hide.

Before 2012 we in the UK had no law against stalking which is incredible that it took so long since it really took off in the nineties. There were problems with ex's bugging their former gf's here & there but I don't think the problem of stalking was that big there bit more with strangers. I don't think many women cut the guy out cold here for fear of stalking.

It may be a factor in the FSU but it's probably more the heavy bust up and/or seeing no point wasting time on the wrong guy I'm thinking.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 12, 2018, 04:29:51 AM
Before 2012 we in the UK had no law against stalking which is incredible that it took so long since it really took off in the nineties. There were problems with ex's bugging their former gf's here & there but I don't think the problem of stalking was that big there bit more with strangers. I don't think many women cut the guy out cold here for fear of stalking.

It may be a factor in the FSU but it's probably more the heavy bust up and/or seeing no point wasting time on the wrong guy I'm thinking.


Even a single experience of having to sneak out the back door from work for a couple of months and watch out carefully for admirers with flowers next to where you live changes the outlook on things. And it's encouraged by the society, a man has to prove his love and be persistent. You never know when a person twice the size of you can turn violent, thinking that you are just playing with him, and it's better to be safe than sorry. But I suspect men will have hard time understanding that, to them it's just cold capricious behavior.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: msmob on January 12, 2018, 04:33:51 AM
Before 2012 we in the UK had no law against stalking which is incredible that it took so long since it really took off in the nineties. There were problems with ex's bugging their former gf's here & there but I don't think the problem of stalking was that big there bit more with strangers. I don't think many women cut the guy out cold here for fear of stalking.

It may be a factor in the FSU but it's probably more the heavy bust up and/or seeing no point wasting time on the wrong guy I'm thinking.

More Trench inaccurate nonsense, I'm afraid ((

FACTS:


http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/stalking-and-harassment (http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/stalking-and-harassment)

"In this legal guidance, the term harassment is used to cover the 'causing alarm or distress' offences under section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997"





Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 12, 2018, 05:45:41 AM
Guys living in Russia, don't get me wrong. I actually have admiration for westerners who moved to Russia for an extended period of time. It's courageous. Profoundly insane, but still courageous.  Безумству храбрых поём мы песню. At least I had lotsa help.  But you are immigrants now. Be immigrants. There are two sides to immigration. The positive side is you get to learn to live in a new world. The negative side is you get to learn to live in a new world. You certainly instantly move down the social status ladder. See which of the two experiences affects you more. I no longer read Russian expat sites in Canada, but when I was, every now and then someone would come out of the woods and say that Canadians are horrible because they don't do things the way we in Russia are used to do. They'd normally be laughed out of the building. 8) Integrate.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: msmob on January 12, 2018, 06:16:26 AM
Wow, nearly 100 percent Golden Words....  ;)
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Jumper on January 12, 2018, 07:41:55 AM

Even a single experience of having to sneak out the back door from work for a couple of months and watch out carefully for admirers with flowers next to where you live changes the outlook on things. And it's encouraged by the society, a man has to prove his love and be persistent. You never know when a person twice the size of you can turn violent, thinking that you are just playing with him, and it's better to be safe than sorry. But I suspect men will have hard time understanding that, to them it's just cold capricious behavior.

Very good point to those looking for a cultural reason *why*.

I think without living there men don't realize that the entire dating scene is a bit different than in the West, men there are supposed to pursue to a greater degree than in the  west, dating to marraige timeline is generally much shorter etc etc   and a lot of cultural things will factor in,and can create misunderstandings.
  If two people truly adore each other they will work thru it regardless, and like always
neither party should simply excuse poor behaviour on cultural differences .
   This case the girl did tell him she was breaking up, so the guy should simply just move on regardless if he felt it was sudden and a poor explanation of why. If it was a test to see if he would try to win her back ,he failed. So move on. If it was really just her wanting to move on, he should move on.
 There is a hat for every head(unless he has a really odd shaped head)
So same action for him regardless.

While ive seen the cut and run bit play out , personally I've had the opposite, where even after a breakup they may have  wanted to remain friends with benefits, so I think human relationships are just far too individual  to fit cultural generalities.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 12, 2018, 10:17:46 AM
More Trench inaccurate nonsense, I'm afraid ((

FACTS:


http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/stalking-and-harassment (http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/stalking-and-harassment)

"In this legal guidance, the term harassment is used to cover the 'causing alarm or distress' offences under section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997"

Not always easy to be able to prosecute under 'harassment' otherwise they wouldn't have needed to bring in a stalking law. Getting sloppy on your old age Mobe ;)
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 12, 2018, 10:33:09 AM
....   This case the girl did tell him she was breaking up, so the guy should simply just move on regardless if he felt it was sudden and a poor explanation of why. If it was a test to see if he would try to win her back ,he failed. So move on. If it was really just her wanting to move on, he should move on....


Fully agree, AJ! That's really all the needs to be said. I can never understand why there are men (sic) out there that has the need to be pampered and/or nursed, undergo therapy, or yearn for some silly 'learning session' why he's an idiot and why she doesn't want him around in her life anymore.

I mean, how many more ways must a gal tell the idiot she no longer wants to be with him? Is there really solace for these men (?) to hear 100 different versions of that? WTF!
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: jone on January 12, 2018, 10:44:01 AM
I had a friend of mine who taught me much at an early age.  He said if the girl in front of you is not the right one, wait sixty seconds and another one will walk by.  Some guys can never get that through their heads. 

A trait of FSUW is that once they decide you are not their man, they will have nothing to do with you.  But the good news is that if you were able to play in the FSUW sandbox once, you have proven that you will be welcome by some next woman.

I do not fault the OP's friend for dwelling on the woman.   But there is nothing wrong with the woman, just the guy's inability to move on.  The faster that is done, the quicker he will find the woman who fits.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: msmob on January 12, 2018, 11:19:03 AM
Not always easy to be able to prosecute under 'harassment' otherwise they wouldn't have needed to bring in a stalking law. Getting sloppy on your old age Mobe ;)

Sloppy is making statements about things you clearly do not understand.

The UK has had civil restraining orders / injunctions and breach of those is contempt of Court ...  What happens when you do ignore the summons or breach an order ? You could have gone to prison.

The 'Stalking Act' - simply made it a Criminal Offence - FASTER ....but Civil Injunctions require a lower burden of proof and were / are easier to obtain.

 
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Jumper on January 12, 2018, 12:29:08 PM

Fully agree, AJ! That's really all the needs to be said. I can never understand why there are men (sic) out there that has the need to be pampered and/or nursed, undergo therapy, or yearn for some silly 'learning session' why he's an idiot and why she doesn't want him around in her life anymore.

I mean, how many more ways must a gal tell the idiot she no longer wants to be with him? Is there really solace for these men (?) to hear 100 different versions of that? WTF!

Air supply was quite  popular though, so there's that.lol

Que "I'm all out of love, I'm so lost without you..."

 :deadhorse:
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 12, 2018, 12:42:49 PM
Well, just to make sure I say this...I hope Sting doesn't get the impression I'm directly relating to his 'friend' as the 'idiot' since my referential usage of 'these men' is as anonymous as his 'virtual' reference of his 'friend'.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Jumper on January 12, 2018, 01:22:10 PM
Come on now GQ, you hummed along to Air Supply! I was a metal.head, and likely still did at least once. LOL

But pining after someone that was not interested in me ,was never something that crossed my mind, moving on quickly was pretty easy, perhaps I just don't have that gene,or not the romantic people tend to label me as lol
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 12, 2018, 02:23:22 PM
Come on now GQ, you hummed along to Air Supply! I was a metal.head, and likely still did at least once. LOL...

Yeeaah, okay. I'll admit humming maybe once or twice to one of their songs. But if we are to talk about this type of 'pity-me-blue-and-cut-up-my-heart-to-tiny-little-pieces' genre, I remember liking 'Reasons' by Earth, Wind and Fire so much better. Even Bryan Adams' Please Forgive Me' was pretty good. Those would be my guilty pleasures.

But that era (80s), I was more into Teddy Pendergrass's 'Close the Door' and all of Marvin Gaye's groove. That, and all of the British Invasion II materials. Bronski Beat, Duran Duran...

Quote
But pining after someone that was not interested in me ,was never something that crossed my mind, moving on quickly was pretty easy, perhaps I just don't have that gene,or not the romantic people tend to label me as lol

I think the '80s were the beginning of the 'dumbing down' period of American men. Even TV sitcoms started changing. Gone was 'All in the Family', instead you have 'Married with Children', Everybody Loves Raymond', etc...

I remember my frustration with my buddies then when they convulse into a Chihuahua-like 'abandonment withdrawal syndrome'. Akin to what was shared in this thread. I don't know why so many of them get deep in that muck when they get ditched by their women. Especially in sunny SoCal with all the 'wanna-be' movie stars chics around them. The '80s was when SoCal was Playboy playmates central, man. LMAO. Even the Lakers' Jerry Buss would always have a limousine full of hot babes. Everyone had their personal harem here. I knew since then that everyone (men) was supposed to be the fox guarding the hen houses. To hear 'pitiful me' chapter actually still exists in men today is pretty sad really.

I don't know, I think the fact I was relatively 'new' in the US, coming from the island in my early years, and the fact I can't believe how many blonde beauts circling around me during those early times, I never saw any significant reason why I should only have, or deserve to have, just one of 'dem wimmen'. So, if a gal tells me no-go-no-mo Tarzan, then faster than a swinging ape I'd say, Well, Tarzan know where Tarzan Go!


Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Sting23 on January 12, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
I posted this story because of two contradicting points:

1- She said she liked my friend but he liked her more and so they need to break up.

2- She then blocked all contact.

I've heard of the normal reasons for breaking up, I've even heard of people going silent.  But this kinda defies logic.  It could be she found another guy, just didn't like him anymore and didn't want to say it.  Or simply a language issue. I don't know her English abilities.

He was quite shaken up by this, I could tell he was heartbroken.  It may have even been his first real love.

Yeah it's good he learned about this and to move on.  He just needs some time to process it all first.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: BillyB on January 12, 2018, 09:24:48 PM
He was quite shaken up by this, I could tell he was heartbroken.  It may have even been his first real love.

Yeah it's good he learned about this and to move on.  He just needs some time to process it all first.


He's young and young people can get emotional so he'll probably need more time than the average guy to process what just happened. As he gets older, he shouldn't waste time processing. Better women out there, always so wasting time isn't smart.


Most people are emotional during breakups is because of selfish reasons. A lack of confidence in themselves to find someone better comes into play too so they are upset the person they're with breaks up with them. The breakup makes them feel less worthy. If they truly love the person, they want what's best for the person and wouldn't be upset if that person leaves to find what's best. If a woman tells me goodbye, I'll give her a hug, wish her the best of luck, and as she's walking away, I'll pick up the phone and line up another date.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: GQBlues on January 12, 2018, 10:14:41 PM
I posted this story because of two contradicting points:

1- She said she liked my friend but he liked her more and so they need to break up.

2- She then blocked all contact.

I've heard of the normal reasons for breaking up, I've even heard of people going silent.  But this kinda defies logic.  It could be she found another guy, just didn't like him anymore and didn't want to say it.  Or simply a language issue. I don't know her English abilities.....

Contradicting? Defies logic? Language issues?

None of the above to me Sting. Certainly not cultural. Matter of fact now it makes a lot sense to me especially judging from your buddy's current emotional state.

The dude suffocated the gal. That's one of the top 5 reasons many of my female pals used to tell me before. Certainly my #1 reason before as well. I couldn't disappear fast enough and rid of her.. I (and they) may like the new squeeze but that doesn't mean life just stopped for all of us. When gals, or their boys, start to expect more time than the current relationship affords, then the opposite happens.

Learn to let these things take its course . #1 reason why badboys get the girls. They don't get so wrapped up with one gal especially not during the very early stages, or never at all. Clingy is not attractive, certainly can never be sexy. Women falls deeper because of how you are when you're with her not because you're constantly asking to be with her.

Anyway, I hope your buddy feels better soon and hopefully next time he finds better balance in his social disposition.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 13, 2018, 04:06:06 AM
I posted this story because of two contradicting points:

1- She said she liked my friend but he liked her more and so they need to break up.

2- She then blocked all contact.

I've heard of the normal reasons for breaking up, I've even heard of people going silent.  But this kinda defies logic.  It could be she found another guy, just didn't like him anymore and didn't want to say it.  Or simply a language issue. I don't know her English abilities.

He was quite shaken up by this, I could tell he was heartbroken.  It may have even been his first real love.

Yeah it's good he learned about this and to move on.  He just needs some time to process it all first.


Oh, he loved her. OK that makes things simple, as I suspected. He loved her, she didn't love him, so she broke off all contacts not to lead him on. She explained this decision the best way she could. I suspect she was not educated by Hollywood to use the "I love you but I am not in love with you" or "it's not you, it's me" or "let's stay friends" safe rejection lines. Not using them defies logic? :rolleyes:

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.Would he prefer to be kept on the hook until she finds what she's looking for?
Title: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: 2tallbill on January 13, 2018, 12:17:55 PM

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.Would he prefer to be kept on the hook until she finds what she's looking for?

Excellent point!
By rejecting him and cutting ties, she frees him up to find his true love.
I tell men to do the same thing. The longer he spends with the old girl
the longer it will be before he finds the right girl. 

The real world isn't Hollywood. The girl isn't suddenly going to decide
the man she isn't attracted to is the man that she always wanted.

I know it's difficult for people to believe, but there are girls who have
rejected my handsome and charming self. I spent a lot of time and
efforts up front with a girl, hoping that things would work out but
when it didn't.

Once things didn't work out I had two choices.
1. Feel sorry for myself and mope around for the rest of the trip
2. Give myself a pep talk and find a better girl.
So, I did part of both. I spend one day feeling sorry for myself
AND giving myself a pep talk. The next day I would start searching
for a better girl.

I met my now wife Angel Eyes after going to Voronezh to meet a
different girl. It was 2 or 3 days after my pep talk that I found her.

Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Bounder on January 13, 2018, 04:25:48 PM
Guys living in Russia, don't get me wrong. I actually have admiration for westerners who moved to Russia for an extended period of time. It's courageous. Profoundly insane, but still courageous.  Безумству храбрых поём мы песню. At least I had lotsa help.  But you are immigrants now. Be immigrants. There are two sides to immigration. The positive side is you get to learn to live in a new world. The negative side is you get to learn to live in a new world. You certainly instantly move down the social status ladder. See which of the two experiences affects you more. I no longer read Russian expat sites in Canada, but when I was, every now and then someone would come out of the woods and say that Canadians are horrible because they don't do things the way we in Russia are used to do. They'd normally be laughed out of the building. 8) Integrate.

In my case, Iím completely disconnected from the expat community. I donít spend time with expats, almost donít know any expats, and donít follow any expat forums. My interactions are almost exclusively with Russians and I am quite happy with this arrangement.

I love Moscow and Iím happy here. Donít really feel any downsides personally and I donít really feel like Iíve gone down the social ladder here although definitely inadequate language skills Is a major disability that makes my life different than others.

Iím in Russia and happy Russians donít do things like Canadians. That will hopefully happen on the same day that hell freezes over!
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Bounder on January 13, 2018, 05:41:16 PM
Bounder can you elaborate on their expectations? 

I didn't even try dating a non-English speaking girl.  No point.  My Russian is so bad that 90% of the conversation will be in English.

There was one time where I had a frustrating time. I scheduled a date for a walk in the park.  I said meet in front of the metro entrance.  She ended up driving and tried to pick me up in the car at some street corner.  This was a huge congested area and I couldn't figure out where she wanted to meet.  I said to park and go to the metro.  She insisted on the entrance to the park.  Now there were several "parks" and monuments, walking areas in this place.  I had never been here before.

I basically was wandering around for close to an hour trying to find it.  I kept telling her to go to the metro but she refused.  After 10 phone calls or so I eventually did find the entrance.  Funny thing it was no more than a 10-12 minute walk from the metro.  We were both fuming, me at her refusal to meet at the metro, and her at thinking it was easy to find the park entrance. 

Her English wasn't great but good enough to communicate.  It was more the attitude of her not compromising on figuring out a solution. 
At least she waited for me but it was one of the most silent walks I've ever had!

It's hard to elaborate on expectations as I am still trying to learn them.  I  can give some examples though - one time, we agreed to meet up between 9 and 9:15 at a mutual location.  She showed up at about 8:45 and I came at 9:10.  I was rebuked for not showing up on time and that it wasn't decent of me to make a girl wait.

Tried to contribute to shopping by being a participant rather than just pushing the cart and doing nothing.  It became a big issue, to the point that the shopping was cut short.  Apparently I was trying to question her and override her decisions.

It goes on and on.  Don't let anyone tell you that cultural misunderstandings aren't real.  It's something I deal with dating Russian women.  The more tolerant they are the better.  I try to remind them that we are from completely different cultures and that stuff is going to come up.

If you want to be successful with a Russian woman, be extremely open minded and prepare to get your ass wooped anyway.  You'll decide for yourself if it's worth it.

I don't mean to sound flippant.  This is what I have experienced and learned so far.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Bounder on January 13, 2018, 05:46:48 PM
Oh, by "open-minded" I didn't mean to be a straight-jacketed liberal who already knows how the world works and is sufficiently "open-minded".  What I mean by open-minded, is take it easy when she's pissed off at you for no reason that you understand. And keep cool when she explains it and you still don't know what you've done wrong.  And when she uses words like "nigger", better to talk about that than judge.  That's what I mean by open-minded.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 13, 2018, 07:40:05 PM

I know it's difficult for people to believe, but there are girls who have
rejected my handsome and charming self.


 8)
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 13, 2018, 07:44:54 PM

I love Moscow and Iím happy here. Donít really feel any downsides personally and I donít really feel like Iíve gone down the social ladder here although definitely inadequate language skills Is a major disability that makes my life different than others.




That should be your next step, learning Russian then, eh? Else how would you know what's going on if you don't understand what they are talking aboot?
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 13, 2018, 07:48:26 PM
And when she uses words like "nigger", better to talk about that than judge. 


In English? Ouch...
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Bounder on January 13, 2018, 07:48:51 PM

That should be your next step, learning Russian then, eh? Else how would you know what's going on if you don't understand what they are talking aboot?

Learning Russian isn't the next step, it's been an ongoing thing since Day 1.  It takes time.  I know Russian well enough to make a scene in the grocery store.....hahaha
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 14, 2018, 05:01:15 AM
Hmm, I am not sure you're dealing with something cultural here. You think Russians love making scenes and give grief to their friends for no particular reason?
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Bounder on January 14, 2018, 11:29:51 AM
Hmm, I am not sure you're dealing with something cultural here. You think Russians love making scenes and give grief to their friends for no particular reason?

My use of the expression "make a scene" was meant to be cheeky.  Maybe I should have given a little bit more detail - I was referring to the progress of my language skills in Russian.  When I first came here, I didn't know much Russian and things I would have taken for granted before I came here suddenly became much different.  Take the grocery store for example - can't find something I'm looking for?  In Canada I would just ask.  Now in Russia, I just had to accept that I didn't have the ability to communicate what I was looking for and had to resign myself to walking away empty handed.  Same thing when the price of something was different than what I expected - In Canada I could simply ask, I Russia I just had to accept it and walk away none the wiser.  Or if I felt I had been (significantly) overcharged.  I just had to accept it.  Since that time, my Russian has progressed to the point where I can raise some of these things; however, the conversation then quickly goes well beyond my language level.  One time it happened when I thought I had been overcharged about 300ru on a 1200ru grocery bill.  So, I raised the issue because I now have the confidence to do so.  But it quickly became apparent to the cashier and every customer in the growing queue that I was a foreigner and my language skills were limited (that is what I meant by making a scene).  It was a cheeky reference to my own limitations in Russian.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Fashionista on January 14, 2018, 12:26:04 PM
One time it happened when I thought I had been overcharged about 300ru on a 1200ru grocery bill.  So, I raised the issue because I now have the confidence to do so.  But it quickly became apparent to the cashier and every customer in the growing queue that I was a foreigner and my language skills were limited (that is what I meant by making a scene).  It was a cheeky reference to my own limitations in Russian.

Got it. So how did they react (I am curious)?

Russian isn't an easy language to pick up. I remember trying to explain to an American who was learning Russian why using a particular prefix would change the meaning a particular way. Eventually I gave up. I just said, because you must.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: ML on January 14, 2018, 12:55:43 PM
I just said, because you must.

Oh my !!  Isn't this like when the parent says:  "Because I said so!!"  :-)
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 14, 2018, 06:02:22 PM
Oh my !!  Isn't this like when the parent says:  "Because I said so!!"  :-)
Yes. However since teaching grammar - in this case, the difference between past and perfect tense - has long been considered "too hard" on kids, what's the alternative ;)?
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Bounder on January 21, 2018, 08:46:25 AM
Got it. So how did they react (I am curious)?

Russian isn't an easy language to pick up. I remember trying to explain to an American who was learning Russian why using a particular prefix would change the meaning a particular way. Eventually I gave up. I just said, because you must.

The customers were stoically patient.  I was lucky because the next person in the line understood my problem, when the cashier was still a bit confused.  He re-explained it and all became clear.  Then, I waited for the line up to clear and the manager came to help and everything got happily resolved.  Russians are very helpful, at least to foreigners!
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: ML on January 21, 2018, 09:35:35 AM
  Russians are very helpful, at least to foreigners!

One of funniest comments ever posted here.
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: msmob on January 21, 2018, 01:18:51 PM
One of funniest comments ever posted here.

One of the saddest from you ?
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: Bounder on January 21, 2018, 02:48:49 PM
One of funniest comments ever posted here.

Why? I definitely wasn't trying to be hilarious.  Do you doubt my analysis?
Title: Re: The Sudden Silent treatment
Post by: 2tallbill on January 21, 2018, 04:06:36 PM
Oh my !!  Isn't this like when the parent says:  "Because I said so!!"  :-)

Just because she is unable to explain the why's and why-not's of the
rules of Russian language to an English speaking student doesn't mean
that that the rule doesn't exist exactly as she says it does.

Your parents might not be able to explain the law of gravity to you but
it applies to you just the same.