Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: Bee Farmer on January 29, 2019, 06:12:15 PM

Title: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on January 29, 2019, 06:12:15 PM
Here are some marriage and divorce statistics that no one likes talking about.  For many people, it paints a rather grim picture about their prospects for a happy, lifelong marriage.  (Primarily based upon US data.)
People don't like having to face reality, and admit that because of bad life choices they have made, the odds are stacked against them.  And the things many people look for, are not conducive to successful marriages.  And the things that often do result in lifelong marriages, are things people don't want to have to deal with during the dating and relationship building process.


Researchers estimate that 41 percent of all first marriages end in divorce.

60 percent of second marriages end in divorce.

73 percent of all third marriages end in divorce.

Wives are the ones who most often file for divorce at 66 percent on average. That figure has soared to nearly 75 percent in some years.

The groups with the most prolific experience of marriage ending in divorce are downscale adults (adults making less than $20,000 annually)  (39 percent), Baby Boomers (38 percent), those aligned with a non-Christian faith (38 percent), African-Americans (36 percent), and people who consider themselves to be liberal on social and political matters (37 percent).

Among the population segments with the lowest likelihood of having been divorced subsequent to marriage are Catholics (28 percent), evangelicals (26 percent), upscale adults (adults making more than $75,000 annually) (22 percent), Asians (20 percent) and those who deem themselves to be conservative on social and political matters (28%).

The divorce rate among people 50 and older has doubled in the past 20 years, according to research by Bowling Green State University.

The divorce rate among couples where one spouse is in jail or prison for one year or more is 80 percent for men and close to 100 percent for women.

Being overweight or obese significantly impairs sexual quality of life and marital happiness.

Female obesity rate plus about 10% = total % of marriages ending in divorce.

The number one marriage killer is contempt. Things that signal you're disgusted with your partner are all super toxic for a relationship, like hostile humor, name-calling, eye-rolling. But there's also some hope here, too: if you want a relationship to last, be kind to the person you're with. In a sense, it's as simple as that.


What Makes People More or Less Likely to Divorce?

48 percent of those who marry before the age of 18 are likely to divorce within 10 years, compared to 25 percent of those who marry after the age of 25.

60 percent of couples married between the age of 20-25 will end in divorce.

Those who wait to marry until they are over 25 years old are 24 percent less likely to get divorced.

If both you and your partner have had previous marriages, you are 90 percent more likely to get divorced than if this had been the first marriage for both of you.

If a person has strong religious beliefs, the risk of divorce is 14 percent less and having no religious affiliation makes you 14 percent more likely to get divorced.

Those with “below average” IQs are 50 percent more likely to be divorced than those with “above average” IQs.

70 percent of couples now cohabit prior to marriage.

60 percent of cohabiting couples will eventually marry. However, living together prior to marriage can increase the chance of getting divorced by as much as 40 percent.

If you are a female serial cohabiter – a woman who has lived with more than one partner before your first marriage – then you’re 40 percent more likely to get divorced than women who have never done so.

If a husband is nine or more years older than his wife or two or more years younger, the risk of getting a divorce is twice that of couples who are closer in age.

A study published by researchers from Emory University following three thousand couples found that those who dated three or more years were 39 percent less likely to get divorced than those who dated less than a year. Couples that dated for two years were 20 percent less likely to split.


Your Sexual History

Women who lost their virginity as a teenager are more than twice as likely to get divorced in the first 5 years of marriage than women who waited until age 18 or older.

A 2011 study at the University of Iowa found that for both men and women, the loss of virginity before age 18 was correlated with a greater number of occurrences of divorce within the first 10 years of marriage.

When compared to women who began sexual activity in their early 20s, girls who initiated sexual activity at ages 13 or 14 were less than half as likely to be in stable marriages in their 30s. – (in this study a stable marriage was defined as a marriage of over five years).

In a study conducted in the United States, 61 percent of men and 12 percent of women born prior to 1910 admitted to having premarital sex; this gender disparity may have been caused by cultural double standards regarding the admission of sexual activity or by men frequenting prostitutes.

A majority of women during the 1920s under the age of 30 were nonetheless virgins at marriage, however, and half of those who were not only had sex with their fiancés.

In the 1970's, 64% of women had 0 or 1 sexual partner prior to marriage, and 6% had 6 or more partners.  In the 2010's, 27% had 0 or 1 prior sexual partner, and 32% had 6 partners or more.

(http://ifstudies.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/wolfinger-sex-divorce-table-1.png)


Women who marry as virgins are far more likely than other women to attend church at least once a week. It’s also noteworthy that virgin marriages increasingly became the domain of religious women between the 1980s and 2000s—and during the same years, the divorce rate for virgin brides continued to drop. These findings make sense in light of the fact that people who attend church frequently have lower divorce rates than do non-participants.

Women who marry having had just one sex partner are unlikely to have had children with another man. Getting married with a child already in tow has a profound negative effect on marital happiness. And marriages preceded by nonmarital fertility have disproportionately high divorce rates.

The odds of divorce are lowest with zero or one premarital partners.

Since the 2000's, 3% of marriages are to a virgin bride.  These marriages have a 6% divorce rate.  The divorce rate has been dropping since the 1980's, when it was 11%.


Your Parent’s Relationship

If your parents are happily married, your risk of divorce decreases by 14 percent.

If your parents married others after divorcing, you’re 91 percent more likely to get divorced.

The risk of divorce is 50 percent higher when one spouse comes from a divorced home and 200 percent higher when both partners do.

In addition, children of divorce are 50 percent more likely to marry another child of divorce.

Certain studies have shown that daughters of divorced parents have a 60 percent higher divorce rate in marriages than children of non-divorced parents while sons have a 35 percent higher rate.


If you Have Kids or Not

The divorce rate for couples with children is as much as 40 percent lower than for those without children.

According to the U.S. Census, the percent of childless American women (ages 15-44) increased a staggering amount in just two generations: from 35 percent in 1976 to 47 percent in 2010.

If you have a childless marriage. The absence of children leads to loneliness, and at least 66 percent of divorced couples in the United States are childless.

Having a baby before marriage can increase the risk of divorce by 24 percent.

In 1940, 3.8% of births were to unwed mothers. In 1974, 13.2 percent, and in 2015, the figure was 40.3 percent.

But a whopping 55 percent of 28- to 34-year-old Millennials choose to have their first child before marriage.

Those who have children before or instead of marriage are more likely to wind up in poverty than their peers who follow what’s called the “success sequence,” the report says. That sequence is: Get an education and a job before getting married and having a kid.



Your Finances and Their Effect on Divorce Rates

An annual income of over $50,000 can decrease the risk of divorce by as much as 30% versus those with an income of under $25k.

Feeling that one’s spouse spent money foolishly increased the likelihood of divorce 45 percent for both men and women.

Couples that argue about finances at least once a week are 30 more likely to get divorced.


Addiction and Divorce

Couples are an astonishing 76-95% more likely to get divorced if only one of them smokes. The amount increases when the wife is the partner with the habit.

While couples who both smoke have it a bit better, a 1998 study found they are still 53% more likely than non-smoking couples to end their marriage.

Each liter of alcohol consumed raises the chance of divorce by 20%! Factor in that the average American drinks 9.4 liters of Alcohol per year, raising their divorce likely hood by 188%!


Divorce, Child Support and Child Custody

Forty-three percent of children in the United States are being raised without their fathers.

When the parents are happily married, the risk of divorce of their children decreases by 14 percent.


Effects on Children

Children who live with a single parent that has a live-in partner are at the highest risk of sexual abuse: they are 20 times more likely to be victims of sexual abuse than children living with both biological parents (Sedlack et al, 2010).

Children whose parents are unemployed have about two times the rate of child abuse and two to three times the rate of neglect than children with employed parents.

Living with their married biological parents places kids at the lowest risk for child abuse and neglect while living with a single parent and a live-in partner increased the risk of abuse and neglect to more than eight times that of other children.

Compared to children living with both biological parents, children in stepfamilies tend to have more struggles with behavior problems, emotional well-being, and academic achievement.

Children whose parents have divorced are more likely to experience injury, asthma, headaches and speech impediments than children whose parents have remained married.

Following a divorce, children are fifty percent more likely to develop health problems than two parent families.

Teenagers in single-parent families and in blended families are 300% more likely to need psychological help within any given year than teens from intact, nuclear families.

Children from divorced homes have more psychological problems than children who lost a parent to death.

Adult children of divorce tend to have: lower paying jobs and less college than their parents; unstable father-child relationships; a history of vulnerability to drugs and alcohol in adolescence; fears about commitment and divorce; and negative memories of the legal system that forced custody and visitation.

Individuals whose parents were divorced had a 54% higher probability of being overweight and were 89% more likely to be abdominally obese.



The Financial Effects of Divorce

The average total cost of divorce in the United States is $15,000.

Families with children that were not poor before the divorce see their income drop as much as 50 percent.

Almost 50 percent of the parents with children that are going through a divorce move into poverty after the divorce.

60% of people under poverty guidelines are divorced women and children.


The Toll a Divorce Takes

A new study entitled “Divorce and Death” shows that broken marriages can kill at the same rate as smoking cigarettes. Indications that the risk of dying is a full 23 percent higher among divorcées than married people.

One researcher determined that a single divorce costs state and federal governments about $30,000, based on such things as the higher use of food stamps and public housing as well as increased bankruptcies and juvenile delinquency.

The nation’s 1.4 million divorces in 2002 are estimated to have cost the taxpayers more than $30 billion.



Conclusions

Ideal Man:
age 25+
Never Married
No Children
Kind and caring
Not overweight or obese
Does not drink, or minimal alcohol consumption
Non smoking
Earns at least $50,000, and preferably $75,000
Happily married parents
Religious beliefs
Not a criminal
Above average IQ
No more than 9 years older than the lady
Responsible, does not spend money foolishly
Date at least 2, and preferably 3 years before marriage.


Ideal woman:
Age 25+
Virgin preferably, or maximum 1 prior sexual partner
Lost virginity past age of 18
Never married
No children
Kind and caring
Not overweight or obese
Never lived with a partner
Attends church at least once per week
Non smoking
Does not drink, or minimal alcohol consumption
Happily married parents
Not a criminal
Above average IQ
No more than 9 years younger than the guy
Responsible, does not spend money foolishly
Date at least 2, and preferably 3 years before marriage.

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: DCcowboy on January 29, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
Nice to know I fall into lines with very few exceptions.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: ML on January 29, 2019, 08:48:31 PM
WOW, if you add up all the probabilities for the various sins . . . we are all doomed in our marriages !!
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on January 30, 2019, 03:01:54 PM
WOW, if you add up all the probabilities for the various sins . . . we are all doomed in our marriages !!

We?  We?!  Don't be painting me with the brush of your own guilty conscience.  Some of us look at these odds, and see that we have an excellent probability of being able to have a successful, lifelong marriage.

As I said at the very beginning:
For many people, it paints a rather grim picture about their prospects for a happy, lifelong marriage. 
People don't like having to face reality, and admit that because of bad life choices they have made, the odds are stacked against them.

Your own probability of a successful marriage may be doomed, but that doesn't mean all of us are doomed.  It wasn't that long ago that you were being petty, and ready to throw in the towel with Ochka.  (To your credit, you did remove your head from your posterior, and decided to be a man instead of acting like a spoiled boy, and you sucked it up and put a little more effort into making the relationship work.)  Would someone with lower odds of divorce have been ready to give up so easily?  Ask yourself that.

When I look at the list of things a guy should have for the best chances of a successful marriage, the only risk factor I have is that my parents divorced, and I couldn't control that.  (And I would not hold it against a girl whose parents were divorced if she had everything else going for her.)  As long as I choose a girl with a high probability of a successful marriage of an appropriate age difference, and I date her 2-3 years so we have time to get to know each other and build a real relationship, I know I have an excellent probability of a successful marriage because I have positioned my life so I can offer a strong foundation for which a successful relationship can be built upon.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on January 30, 2019, 03:28:37 PM
"People don't like having to face reality"




no bee boy, I guess you don't....
here in language YOU can understand...

Gospel of Thomas...

Why reach for the speck in your neighbor’s eye
when there is an entire tree in your own...



bee boy
married 19 yr to a Ukrainian woman
and have two teenage daughters with her
my very existence makes your statements about "rules for success" sound like the most absurd thing ever uttered
even more so considering it is uttered by someone who undoubtedly considers himself to be of great virtue and yet paradoxically is utterly alone....

a book is not reality bee boy
a statistic is about a population and not an individual

experience is the doorway to reality and not reading
try it some time...
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: SteveInBoston on January 30, 2019, 06:34:51 PM
Ideal woman:
Age 25+
Virgin preferably, or maximum 1 prior sexual partner
Lost virginity past age of 18
Never married
No children
Kind and caring
Not overweight or obese
Never lived with a partner
Attends church at least once per week
Non smoking
Does not drink, or minimal alcohol consumption
Happily married parents
Not a criminal
Above average IQ
No more than 9 years younger than the guy
Responsible, does not spend money foolishly
Date at least 2, and preferably 3 years before marriage.

This is utter twaddle.

It's the result of someone who don't understand how surveys, statistics, and especially multi-variable analysis work.

What was stated was a bunch of figures, without any reference to the studies (except one) for verification, from a general pool instead of each subset of the pool.

One cannot simply put those values into a spreadsheet and hand select the favorable ones of each category to select the optimum traits.

A valid result is to take the women who are in successful marriages, then select the first trait (married at age 25+), then take that subgroup and then take the sub-subgroup of age 25+ and virgin (or 1 previous partner), then take the next sub-sub-group, etc.

It could be that of NO women who are 25+ in successful marriages are also virgins.

A more comprehensive and also extremely complicated analysis is to take each combination sub-factors and generate a likelihood of success and cross-reference with the other sub-factors, number crunch through various iterations and generate a trait combination group with associated probable success rates.

Another scenario could be that women with the specific combination of traits as stated above have a 100% marriage failure rate.  A plausible reason for this is that women with those traits have such demanding requirements of their partner that they will not be satisfied with anyone.  They either divorce early or never marry, because after 2-3 years of dating they are disappointed with their partner.


So, a wall of data about marriage/divorce rates that is practically useless.  Unless maybe designing or playing a dating video game.

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 05, 2019, 01:36:09 PM
Quote
This is utter twaddle.

I disagree Steve, as I consider your post to be utter twaddle.  It reeks of what is known as a college educated idiot - someone who may be educated in one area, but completely lacking a lick of common sense.

Another expression would be someone who can't see the forest for all the trees.  You're worried about irrelevant details, instead of seeing the big picture.

Praxeology is the field of study of human behavior.  It uses deductive reasoning, and not inductive reasoning.  It is a soft science, and not a hard science.

Quote
What was stated was a bunch of figures, without any reference to the studies (except one) for verification, from a general pool instead of each subset of the pool.

A lot of the results were pulled from the National Survey of Family Growth, but the individual studies are irrelevant to the discussion.

Quote
A valid result is to take the women who are in successful marriages, then select the first trait (married at age 25+), then take that subgroup and then take the sub-subgroup of age 25+ and virgin (or 1 previous partner), then take the next sub-sub-group, etc.

It could be that of NO women who are 25+ in successful marriages are also virgins.

And it could be that all 25+ women who married as virgins are in successful marriages.

Quote
A more comprehensive and also extremely complicated analysis is to take each combination sub-factors and generate a likelihood of success and cross-reference with the other sub-factors, number crunch through various iterations and generate a trait combination group with associated probable success rates.

No, the only thing you will get is white noise - just meaningless chatter that hides the bigger picture.

Quote
So, a wall of data about marriage/divorce rates that is practically useless.

Only for idiots.

I'll tell you how to apply it.
Marriage has a Sword of Damocles hanging over it.  At any time that Sword can come crashing down, severing the bonds of marriage.  Some risk factors weaken that horsehair, or add weight to the sword.  Other factors strengthen the hair, or lighten the sword.
Not all factors put as much strain on the hair as others.
The sword and hair everyone starts out with is different from everyone else's.  Some hairs are slightly stronger, and can withstand certain stresses that doom other marriages.  But the trend lines remain the same.

Think of these risk factors as red flags.  If a lady has one prior sexual partner, her rates of divorce are 3 times that of virgin brides.  With 2 or more sexual partners, the divorce rates are 5-6 times that of a virgin bride.  Guys worry about a woman spending them broke, but they overlook bigger red flags in sexual behavior.
Or maybe they think drinking one bottle of wine a month is no big deal, even though that results in about 200% higher divorce rates than folks who don't drink at all.
Or maybe they have achieved a high income, and think that can keep a woman happy, even though jobs with high incomes usually come with long hours and high stress.  They are not home very much, and when they are home, they are still miserable to be around.  ($75K is supposed to be the ideal income for happiness.  Below that, you may feel like you are wanting.  At $75K, you can enjoy a comfortable lifestyle. Above $75K, you have long hours and high stress.)

I think part of the problem why people don't like looking at statistics like these is arrogance.  An expert in one field often believes that they are an expert in all fields.  They try to concentrate on themselves having one area of strength, and think that one thing will outweigh all their demerits.  Or they believe that they are the exception to the rules.  And then when they crash and burn, they want to blame anyone but themselves.

Anyone with common sense knows teenaged boys, whiskey, and fast cars don't mix.  Only an idiot would try to break down the best mix of age, whiskey consumption, and speed - you are not going to let your daughter or sister go out with that guy.  The risks are simply too high.  Even if she survives, she can easily become injured.

Marriage will likely be the most important decision people will ever make.  Other people's lives will be impacted by your decisions, especially your children's.  It seems quite ironic to me that people would object to their sister riding in a car with that teenaged boy with the whiskey and fast car because they don't want to see her get injured, but they will engage in other high risk activities (remarriage) that are likely to injure their own children and/or result in divorce.

But then again, if people had common sense, they would not remarry after divorce, or get involved with people whose behaviors result in high divorce rates, and they themselves would live their own lives trying to be the best partner they can be, and to provide the best environment for their children.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 05, 2019, 01:53:37 PM
OK Bee you've been looking 1-2 years but no trips yet and now you're posting you are looking for a virgin  in the F S U over 25 years old.  Most FSU women have had a child by that age !
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 05, 2019, 02:15:44 PM
I've been to Ukraine before.

I have not posted that I am searching for a virgin.  Others assume that, but I have not listed that as a requirement, or cause for rejection if a lady was not a virgin.  (Interestingly, on Elena's Models blog, she did post that she is beginning to have virgins join...not a lot, but perhaps 2 dozen.  So they do exist.)  I do believe virginity in a woman offers the best chance of a lifelong marriage.

I would not consider a relationship with a FSU or American girl who had children. 

A few basic things on my list:
Never married
No children
Not overweight/obese

No more or less than I offer.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on February 05, 2019, 02:35:41 PM
bee boy

you can’t praise virginity in someone else as a virtue, without walking the walk yourself
so I guess we can safely assume that about you, and if still not convinced, then there's your past failed reference to your "experience" with oral sex...
together I think we can soundly predict that you're NOT EXACTLY a super stud. right...?

NOW I understand your objection to being labeled an “INCEL” Involuntary Celibate by me in the past...
I had part of it wrong, it’s voluntary celibacy, or at least you THINK it is...

bee boy
i think everyone on this board understands that the only sexual climax you’ve ever had was courtesy of your right hand, and  that the only possible exception to this would be if you are LEFT handed...

what I would consider doing if I were you (happily married 19 yr father of two teenage children, so I'm not)
is first thing tomorrow morning, walk outside and turn your face upwards straight towards the sky
and yell in your loudest voice, "help me God"
and pray for divine intervention
this is probably the only chance you've got...
shhhhh....everybody keep quiet about "god" don't tell him.....
remember when you were little and you weren't supposed say "Santa wan't real" around the real little children "who still believed"...same deal...





Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Cameraguy on February 05, 2019, 02:46:10 PM
Do I believe that the 3% of virgins who marry have a 6% divorce rate?


Not on your life, but to each his own.


I remember driving into Novosibirsk and being told by Russian friends that the statue on the outskirts of the city was actually a tribute to Novosibirsk's last remaining virgin.


According to what Maxx is saying, Georgia may be your best bet. That is, if the male relatives approve of her marrying a foreigner, which in itself seems doubtful.


~CG
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: SteveInBoston on February 05, 2019, 04:22:14 PM
I disagree Steve, as I consider your post to be utter twaddle.  It reeks of what is known as a college educated idiot - someone who may be educated in one area, but completely lacking a lick of common sense.

Another expression would be someone who can't see the forest for all the trees.  You're worried about irrelevant details, instead of seeing the big picture.

Praxeology is the field of study of human behavior.  It uses deductive reasoning, and not inductive reasoning.  It is a soft science, and not a hard science.

A lot of the results were pulled from the National Survey of Family Growth, but the individual studies are irrelevant to the discussion.

And it could be that all 25+ women who married as virgins are in successful marriages.

No, the only thing you will get is white noise - just meaningless chatter that hides the bigger picture.

Only for idiots.

Now you are mixing up different studies, and different sciences.  If you stayed with Praxeology then that would be acceptable.  But instead you started stating statistics, all as one-off groups instead of related groups and cross-reference subgroups.

Each could be a trait that enhances success for marriage.  But as a combination of traits, each combination will need to be evaluated for their success rates.

Individual studies are extremely relevant.  They specify the framework of each study, with associated margins of error.  Omitting them is how idiots, or worse, deceivers, try to use science to push their personal beliefs.  They cherry-pick things here and there and make it seem reasonable, without any due diligence to the underlying science or statistics.

Your correlations are just as accurate as the studies that declared polio was caused by ice cream.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: DaveNY on February 05, 2019, 05:17:50 PM

Ideal woman:
Age 25+
Virgin preferably, or maximum 1 prior sexual partner
Lost virginity past age of 18
Never married
No children
Kind and caring
Not overweight or obese
Never lived with a partner
Attends church at least once per week
Non smoking
Does not drink, or minimal alcohol consumption
Happily married parents
Not a criminal
Above average IQ
No more than 9 years younger than the guy
Responsible, does not spend money foolishly
Date at least 2, and preferably 3 years before marriage.

If you're looking for a RW with the above characteristics you're going to be looking for a while. While Putin has helped revive the Russian Orthodox Church many young women (under 35) still don't attend church. Vast majority of the women under 35 are not virgins. They have had more than 1 previous partner and have often lived with former partners.

The divorce rate in Russia is high. So it's likely her parents were divorced and she might have been divorced. Abortions are common so she might have had an abortion. She probably has little to no understanding of English.

Other than that you will still have a hard time finding a RW who meets your requirements.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: jone on February 05, 2019, 05:43:24 PM
I disagree Steve, as I consider your post to be utter twaddle.  It reeks of what is known as a college educated idiot - someone who may be educated in one area, but completely lacking a lick of common sense.

Another expression would be someone who can't see the forest for all the trees.  You're worried about irrelevant details, instead of seeing the big picture.

Praxeology is the field of study of human behavior.  It uses deductive reasoning, and not inductive reasoning.  It is a soft science, and not a hard science.

A lot of the results were pulled from the National Survey of Family Growth, but the individual studies are irrelevant to the discussion.

And it could be that all 25+ women who married as virgins are in successful marriages.

No, the only thing you will get is white noise - just meaningless chatter that hides the bigger picture.

Only for idiots.

I'll tell you how to apply it.
Marriage has a Sword of Damocles hanging over it.  At any time that Sword can come crashing down, severing the bonds of marriage.  Some risk factors weaken that horsehair, or add weight to the sword.  Other factors strengthen the hair, or lighten the sword.
Not all factors put as much strain on the hair as others.
The sword and hair everyone starts out with is different from everyone else's.  Some hairs are slightly stronger, and can withstand certain stresses that doom other marriages.  But the trend lines remain the same.

Think of these risk factors as red flags.  If a lady has one prior sexual partner, her rates of divorce are 3 times that of virgin brides.  With 2 or more sexual partners, the divorce rates are 5-6 times that of a virgin bride.  Guys worry about a woman spending them broke, but they overlook bigger red flags in sexual behavior.
Or maybe they think drinking one bottle of wine a month is no big deal, even though that results in about 200% higher divorce rates than folks who don't drink at all.
Or maybe they have achieved a high income, and think that can keep a woman happy, even though jobs with high incomes usually come with long hours and high stress.  They are not home very much, and when they are home, they are still miserable to be around.  ($75K is supposed to be the ideal income for happiness.  Below that, you may feel like you are wanting.  At $75K, you can enjoy a comfortable lifestyle. Above $75K, you have long hours and high stress.)

I think part of the problem why people don't like looking at statistics like these is arrogance.  An expert in one field often believes that they are an expert in all fields.  They try to concentrate on themselves having one area of strength, and think that one thing will outweigh all their demerits.  Or they believe that they are the exception to the rules.  And then when they crash and burn, they want to blame anyone but themselves.

Anyone with common sense knows teenaged boys, whiskey, and fast cars don't mix.  Only an idiot would try to break down the best mix of age, whiskey consumption, and speed - you are not going to let your daughter or sister go out with that guy.  The risks are simply too high.  Even if she survives, she can easily become injured.

Marriage will likely be the most important decision people will ever make.  Other people's lives will be impacted by your decisions, especially your children's.  It seems quite ironic to me that people would object to their sister riding in a car with that teenaged boy with the whiskey and fast car because they don't want to see her get injured, but they will engage in other high risk activities (remarriage) that are likely to injure their own children and/or result in divorce.

But then again, if people had common sense, they would not remarry after divorce, or get involved with people whose behaviors result in high divorce rates, and they themselves would live their own lives trying to be the best partner they can be, and to provide the best environment for their children.

Hey, the women are just lining up for Bee Farmer.   Lucky that he follows all of his guidelines.  Otherwise he'd have been married a long time ago. 

Me thinks he is really following Paul in his first letter to the Corinthians:  (Chapter 7)

Bee Farmer thinks it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 05, 2019, 06:09:00 PM
Quote
Do I believe that the 3% of virgins who marry have a 6% divorce rate?


Not on your life, but to each his own.

Of people I know who have been happily married for decades and decades, the only sexual partner they have had being their spouse seems to be a common recurring theme.

Anecdotal, but worth paying attention to.  Coincidentally, that is also supported by research.

Quote
If you stayed with Praxeology then that would be acceptable.  But instead you started stating statistics, all as one-off groups instead of related groups and cross-reference subgroups.

There is no problem citing statistics to explain behavior in Praxeology.

Quote
Your correlations are just as accurate as the studies that declared polio was caused by ice cream.

I do understand that correlation is not causation.  With that said, when there is an extremely high correlation, it's worth paying attention to.

Quote
If you're looking for a RW with the above characteristics you're going to be looking for a while.

I don't limit myself to RW.

I'm looking for someone to spend the rest of my life with.  I have to be picky.  I accept that it is not an easy path, and that I will be looking for a long time.  Others choose easier paths, and rush into marriages they should have avoided.  That is the path they choose.  This is the path I choose.

Quote
Hey, the women are just lining up for Bee Farmer.

I actually have a fair number of women express interest in me, and even some physically fit ones.  (I am physically fit, own a couple houses, earn a decent living, never married, no kids...women notice these things.  And, I have a respectable reputation with other women.)  I don't consider it a secret that if you are the kind of guy that good women want, women will notice you and give you attention.  (Be desirable to many, but only choose one.)  But I am not interested in divorced women, or women with kids, or women with tattoos, etc.  If I know that a woman is not someone that I would ever be willing to marry, I don't get involved with her.

Quote
Lucky that he follows all of his guidelines.  Otherwise he'd have been married a long time ago.

I almost got married once.  If we would have gotten married, I'm sure we would still be together.
She had almost all the criteria for an optimum woman for marriage.

She still says that I am the best man she has ever known. (Perhaps that says more to the quality of other men she has known, as I have many flaws.)

I still say that divorced people looking to remarry and believing they will be successful makes about as much sense as a teenage boy mixing whiskey and fast cars, thinking he has learned from his mistakes after crashing, and he will be able to drive better the next time.  Some people never learn from their mistakes, and history has shown their odds of crashing again are even higher.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on February 05, 2019, 06:25:27 PM
“Of people I know who have been happily married for decades and decades, the only sexual partner they have had being their spouse seems to be a common recurring theme.”



I know someone, “ME”, who’s banged more chicks in Ukraine than a Stalinist firing squad, and yet paradoxically this yr will be my 20th aniv and my wife and I still behave like teenagers with each other

Coincidentally, this is supported by own freakin experience, something you seem to know not a god damned thing about...

PS, don’t pout little boy, I know you’re reading this...
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Jumper on February 05, 2019, 09:08:15 PM
Quote from: BeeFarmer
But then again, if people had common sense, they would not remarry after divorce....

still say that divorced people looking to remarry and believing they will be successful makes about as much sense as a teenage boy mixing whiskey and fast cars, thinking he has learned from his mistakes after crashing, and he will be able to drive better the next time.  Some people never learn from their mistakes, and history has shown their odds of crashing again are even higher




.


Silly analogy.
Two people marrying can certainly have learned from thier mistakes.
They both may have matured, and learned how to handle relationships better, conflict better , and learned to  communicate better.

They also may not have.

But that is nothing like a teenage boy *still* drinking and driving.


His key mistakes remain inexperience and impairment.

One of these factors absolutely does not apply to a previously married person, and the other may,or may not apply .
Their personality may be an impairment to enduring relationships, or they may have learned to modify their approach to a partner and relatiobships.

They have more experience driving a fast car, and could no longer be drinking.


If you want to post 400 different statistics, at least come up with better analogies.

 I dont doubt your statistics, I dont  even doubt your conclusions derived from rather mixed and matched data.

I'll assure you that in something as fragile as human relationships, were it takes both parties complete commitment to keep a marraige together,that you can only control one side of the equation at best.
You can marry a perfect on paper candidate,and perhaps reduce the statistical odds of the marriage failing.
   You could wait until you are 93 years old and statistically increase the odds your marriage will endure until your death dramatically,
But you can never control the other persons inner feelings.Statisticallybperfrct people stil divorce.

Two things to be absolutely  certain.
1. Never marry
2. Hold the ceremony at Yosemite on el capitian , then jump off  el Capitan right after you say  ,I do.


Now for most of us lacking common sense, we will recognize the many risk factors in a relationship  enduring a lifetime, and also feel that  never entering marriage again, may seem
just slightly less extreme a measure to avoid a *possible* 2nd failed marraige, than committing suicude the moment we enter into one .
 


If you are truly that afraid of failure, you cannot possibly ever  fully entrust another individual with the responsibility no matter how good they match the best statistical probability.

I think love us a tad more simple and unpredictable than all that, and without it, the odds a marriage lasts is considerably lower.

While I understand  and applaud the fact you are looking everywhere, not just fsu,
I'd advise you to remember not to apply random studies based mostly on western culture and resultant marraiges, on any other culture,  there are distinct differences that make a study on western culture worthless applied elsewhere





Title: Marriage strike
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 06, 2019, 11:42:26 AM
Any sensible man in the western should not get married due to divorce being so un-balanced in favour of women.  The only caveat being that a man has to marry a woman to bring her from the FSU unless you can find a previously married FSU in your home country.
Title: Re: Marriage strike
Post by: Davo2 on February 06, 2019, 01:03:50 PM
Any sensible man in the western should not get married due to divorce being so un-balanced in favour of women.  The only caveat being that a man has to marry a woman to bring her from the FSU unless you can find a previously married FSU in your home country.

There may be change in the wind. It cost me over 50k in legal fees, but I ended up with custody of my children, a larger percentage of our assets, 30k of her superanuation and  the court even accepted my low evaluation of my business and house over hers.

I'm a member of several single fathers groups on FB and although there are many who get screwed by the family court system, there are also quite a few who ended up in a better position than their ex wives when the dust settled.

On a dating front, sure I've had some shocking dates and two short term relationships that didn't end well due to their attitudes. On the other hand I've met many wonderful local women and one I spent over 6 months with and would definitely marry, if she didn't move away due to family commitments.

I just don't see this feminist issue that other guys claim. I'm sure you experience both good and bad women, no matter where they come from. The women that I had problems with was more due to their up bringing and emotional baggage, than feminist ideals.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 06, 2019, 02:32:47 PM
Quote
Silly analogy.
Two people marrying can certainly have learned from thier mistakes.
They both may have matured, and learned how to handle relationships better, conflict better , and learned to  communicate better.

They also may not have.

But that is nothing like a teenage boy *still* drinking and driving.


His key mistakes remain inexperience and impairment.

That's a great theory, Jumper. 

If people learned from their mistakes, the divorce rates for second and third marriages would decline.  What actually happens though?  They are more likely to divorce, showing that they did not learn anything.  They are worse off than someone on their first marriage.

Divorced people's key mistakes are also inexperience and impairment. 
Their experience with marriage is learning how to fail and how to give up.
Which makes them emotionally impaired.

A few people may learn, but the are worse off their second time around.

Quote
I'll assure you that in something as fragile as human relationships, were it takes both parties complete commitment to keep a marraige together,that you can only control one side of the equation at best.
You can marry a perfect on paper candidate,and perhaps reduce the statistical odds of the marriage failing.

There is no perhaps about it.  You do reduce (but not eliminate) the risk of divorce by choosing a good partner.

Quote
But you can never control the other persons inner feelings.Statisticallybperfrct people stil divorce.

But at much lower rates.
Statistically imperfect people get divorced too, at much higher rates.  So getting involved with someone who is high risk is playing with fire.

Quote
Now for most of us lacking common sense, we will recognize the many risk factors in a relationship  enduring a lifetime,

No, most people do not recognize the risk factors, (or simply don't care) especially when the risk factor is them.
If they recognized the risk factors, you would see second and third marriages with lower divorce rates than first marriages.
Remarriage for the majority of people really is committing relationship suicide.

Quote
If you are truly that afraid of failure, you cannot possibly ever  fully entrust another individual with the responsibility no matter how good they match the best statistical probability.

I agree with you on that.  The person who never makes a mistake, is the person who doesn't do anything.

Quote
I think love us a tad more simple and unpredictable than all that, and without it, the odds a marriage lasts is considerably lower.

What's not unpredictable, is your ability to choose who you develop a relationship and develop feelings for.

Quote
While I understand  and applaud the fact you are looking everywhere, not just fsu,
I'd advise you to remember not to apply random studies based mostly on western culture and resultant marraiges, on any other culture,  there are distinct differences that make a study on western culture worthless applied elsewhere

And what relevant cultural differences are you referring to?
Marriage, loyalty, honor, treating your partner right, caring, virginity, oxytocin response, love, affection, etc. are universal to all women, and not confined to western culture.  These are worldwide universals.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Davo2 on February 06, 2019, 04:20:53 PM
"Divorced people's key mistakes are also inexperience and impairment. 
Their experience with marriage is learning how to fail and how to give up.
Which makes them emotionally impaired"

Beefarmer, You can't comment on divorce when you have never been in a long term relationship or faced any of the usual issues you deal with in marriage.

I'm certain you would have given up long before I did, if faced with the same situation as me and I look at the fact I stayed for so long as a sign of emotional impairment.


"Remarriage for the majority of people really is committing relationship suicide"

So us guys who have divorced aren't capable of love and a successful marriage like you?..... Do you suggest we make excuses why we can't find a worthy woman like you and live a life of loneliness?

My advice to you is to forget everything you've read or been told and experience life and as many relationships as you can both good and bad..... Divorced women,  never married, atheists, single mums, virgins (if you can find one) etc... Because you are missing out on meeting some amazing people.

You'll find it's very rare you really know what a woman's like, despite her credentials on paper at the start of a relationship. It's only 6 months down the track, after the honeymoon period  that you start to see who she really is..... That tea-totaler, christian virgin is probably single because she's a psychopathic narcissist who won't reveal her true self until she has a ring on her finger and your child by her side.

Title: Re: Marriage strike
Post by: Boethius on February 06, 2019, 06:01:26 PM
Any sensible man in the western should not get married due to divorce being so un-balanced in favour of women. 

Sorry, but this just isn't true, and I can give you a half dozen decisions of the Supreme Court of Canada backing up my assertion.  Joint custody is the default here (50/50), and in many American states as well.

I read the story of a UK woman recently, single mother who had purchased a home.  She was warning other UK women not to marry quickly.  She'd been married about a year, husband didn't work at all during their marriage, she threw him out, he sued, and received 1/3 of the value of her home, despite the short length of the marriage and the fact there were no children (he did not stand in loco parentis to her children).  So, I suspect it's more about where the earning power lies.

With respect to virginity/length of marriage - I suspect most women who remain virgins until marriage do so out of religious conviction.  They may also stay in bad marriages because of those convictions.  So, I wouldn't put too much stock into a correlation between the length of a marriage and virginity.

This post was composed without the aid of google.



Title: Re: Marriage strike
Post by: ML on February 06, 2019, 09:22:13 PM
With respect to virginity/length of marriage - I suspect most women who remain virgins until marriage do so out of religious conviction. 

Quite likely.

However, there is some percentage whose main reason for virginity is complete lack of desire.
Those are the ones to beware of (although hard to know beforehand) because that lack of desire will persist during marriage.

Same holds true for the virgin man.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Jumper on February 06, 2019, 11:34:13 PM
Quote from: BeeFarmer
And what relevant cultural differences are you referring to?

As example the above two posts dealing with your posted statistics on virginity and marriage.

In cultures with a much higher percentage of people of specific religious Faith's,  virginity at time of marriage is more than expected , and  divorce carries a larger social stigma, your studies results would nitbfactorvin the same reasons.

  You are looking everywhere not just the FSU,  deriving conclusions of marriage breakdown odds from statistical data founded in western culture ,is not going to apply to  many places in the world.


Only as small example ,if you feel decades of soviet mentality and structure in FSU countries shaped cultural views on virginity, marriage, diborce, relationship problem solving, conflict resolution, the same as  they are in the  western societies of the studies,  then go ahead and apply that data.

It's all generalization .
You are marrying an individual so none of that matters, but if you are trying to sort out an individual using generalized data, it needs to be data from that culture.

To use western data , to help choose a  woman from a village in Sudan wouldnt be wise.

There are cultural differences between the west and the fsu.

Things you listed are individual traits, yes all women may share them.
 Your data is not about those individual traits.
Do you think a devout catholic Chilean from a small village fits your marraige data the same as a Buddhist from Bhutan ,on percentages of divorce for the same reasons in your study?


If so, ok.
If not,  then you might want to rethink applying them anywhere else but where they were done.


Your views that people are foolish who  remarry because the statistical odds are too great that it will not last speaks volumes.

Statistically the odds are worse of course, and why would that matter?

If a persons  parents are divorced I suppose since the odds are worse, they should never try marraige.But seemingly, it's ok for them to try, as you see that as only a risk factor.


You seem to draw a line in the sand in who should try, or not try, and firvtyem to still be considered a rational.person.lol

So where does  foolish merge into simply an ok  risk taker by necessity (a person doesn't control.their parents marraige)?



Just how did you calculate  the cut off percent ?

You did ask for specifics,  I'll generalize and say one big difference is in how couples are raised to resolve
 differences . The entire mentality about even talking about things is different.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: ML on February 07, 2019, 09:58:10 PM
As a person with training in scientific methodology, many of you are giving short shrift to the data presented by BeeMan.

You are resorting to idea that the data doesn't mean anything because any one person you are interested in can be different from the average as indicated in the data.

But that ignores the value of the data and the concept of probability.

For instance, if it is found that a certain type of plane has an accident rate significantly higher than average . . . I doubt many of you would say that you would have no worry flying on it because some of the planes in that category probably will not have the problem.  i.e. they are all individuals.

So the value of data and statistics is that they can help us in our screening process, just like we screen out for smoking, drinking, etc.

Sure you may decide to go against the odds with any particular gal/guy, but just admit you are being foolish rather than long winded arguments about . . . each person is different, bla bla bla.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Jumper on February 08, 2019, 12:22:21 AM
As a person with training in scientific methodology, many of you are giving short shrift to the data presented by BeeMan.

You are resorting to idea that the data doesn't mean anything because any one person you are interested in can be different from the average as indicated in the data.

But that ignores the value of the data and the concept of probability.

For instance, if it is found that a certain type of plane has an accident rate significantly higher than average . . . I doubt many of you would say that you would have no worry flying on it because some of the planes in that category probably will not have the problem.  i.e. they are all individuals.

So the value of data and statistics is that they can help us in our screening process, just like we screen out for smoking, drinking, etc.

Sure you may decide to go against the odds with any particular gal/guy, but just admit you are being foolish rather than long winded arguments about . . . each person is different, bla bla bla.

Again silly analogy.
That doesnt mean your point isnt valid, it just means the analogy isnt.


A certain model aircraft with a specific faulty part or design, certainly has a specific probability across all the exact same model.
There is no variable other than when the part fails, or the conditions in flight are correct  to show the desgn failure.

A person that's either been married, or not a virgin , is not certain to be flawed regarding relationship building , or necessarily like other people that have the same background.
Why? Really do we need to outline that it takes two people to make a relationship work, and the other person may simply have not wanted to continue it for a million reasons.

Yes you can draw generalizations from the data.
But to compare that to a known ,exacting issue in a mechanical devise, is simply poor analogy and also a poor method in sorting the data from the studies.

If studies like this produced life long marraiges, they would be much more popular and valuable to marketers and advertisers.


I believe family counseling ,when needed can be incredibly constructive.
I believe studies like this can show trends.

In the course of things like human relationships I feel neither can be relied on for any given result.
 I know of a somewhat renowned marriage and family therapist and psychoanalyst, who is on her 3rd marriage to a lesser reknowned psychoanalyst and family and marriage therapist., and not surprisingly they are getting divorced.

So that specific case certainly confirms the data, while comments sense woukd dictate both should have better relationship skills than average.

Should any conclusions for people thinking of marriage be derived from.that?
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on February 08, 2019, 07:12:37 AM
"As a person with training in scientific methodology, many of you are giving short shrift to the data presented by BeeMan."

as a person with training in picking up Ukrainian women methodology, many of you will find BeeBoy's data to be completely useless.
BeeBoy is just a poor lonely lost soul trapped in his own purgatory, seeking to justify his own failure rather than owning it and changing it...
"seize the day" people, just go out there and DO IT!!!



Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: SteveInBoston on February 08, 2019, 10:57:34 AM
As a person with training in scientific methodology, many of you are giving short shrift to the data presented by BeeMan.


My issue with the data is source, accuracy and methodology.

The data is relational trends and does not state causation.  40 percent of all first marriages end in divorce...why?  There is no data for the reasons for divorce, just a bunch of numbers on the people who are divorced based on age, sex, religious leanings and sexual history.   Why do virgins divorce or stay married?  Why do sexually promiscuous men/women divorce or stay married?

One point stated is 60% of all second marriages end in divorce.  This is misleading because it doesn't break into specifics - first time marriage for a man and second for the woman, second for the man and first for the woman, third marriage for the man and second for the woman, etc...  There are many more "second marriage" combinations than first marriage, and therefore it may be statistically comparable for first marriage when normalized over the number of combinations.

Also, it seems the data presented was from studies conducted in the 80's and 90's.  A study conducted by the National Survey of Family Growth in 2002 showed that the likelihood of women being divorced after 10 years in their first marriage is 33 percent.  The Likelihood of women being divorced after 10 year in their second marriage was 39 percent.

6 percent delta, but again the study doesn't state the mix (of marriage type - both partners first marriage, both second, first for man, second for women, etc.).   It may be more likely that it is the first marriage for both, and it is the second marriage for both.   But is the likelihood of divorce more or less if it's the second marriage for the woman and first for the man?


In the end you can infer that couples with higher income and who married later in life would have a better chance of a successful marriage.  Couples who are in  their first marriage have the fear of the unknown that may keep them in a bad marriage.  Couples who are in their second marriage are familiar with the divorce process and may resort to that earlier than trying to give counseling/therapy a chance.

But without the reasons for divorce given in the OP's wall of statistics, it is just an intellectual exercise without much actionable content.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 10, 2019, 01:02:33 PM
"Divorced people's key mistakes are also inexperience and impairment. 
Their experience with marriage is learning how to fail and how to give up.
Which makes them emotionally impaired"

Beefarmer, You can't comment on divorce when you have never been in a long term relationship or faced any of the usual issues you deal with in marriage.

Where do you get the idea that I have never had a long term relationship?  I have openly said that I courted with a girl for 4.5 years.

Quote
I'm certain you would have given up long before I did, if faced with the same situation as me and I look at the fact I stayed for so long as a sign of emotional impairment.

It's speculation that I (or anyone else) wouldn't have stayed as long as you did.
You simply don't want to believe that anyone could have endured what you did, because to admit that would also mean admitting that you could have done more.  It would require admitting personal responsibility for your actions.  You want to believe that everything was out of your control, and that you were a helpless victim of fate.
Heaven forbid that someone else might have been able to go through a more difficult journey than you.
Even worse is realizing that someone else may have been able to keep the situation from escalating to as bad as it got.
And even worse yet is accepting that someone else might have had the wisdom and foresight to not get involved with your ex altogether.

The reason you believe enduring so long was a sign of emotional impairment is because it was so traumatic for you.  It's easier to say that you simply weren't in your right mind, rather than admitting that your actions, or inactions, contributed to the situation.

Quote
So us guys who have divorced aren't capable of love and a successful marriage like you?

I'm saying that divorced people will never fight to overcome marital problems as someone who is in their first marriage.

In boxing, it is said that undefeated fighters don't know how to lose.  When faced with adversity, they suck it up, bite down, and find a way to overcome obstacles.  However, after they have been defeated, while they may physically improve, they are weakened mentally.  In the future, when they are faced with adversity, they don't dig down as hard.  When the going gets tough, they give up.  They resign themselves to being beaten.

Divorced people are the same way.  It's easy to have a successful marriage when everything goes well.  (I think divorced people put extra effort into trying to avoid things that cause marital problems...but they never learn how to overcome problems.)  The problem is, there is always going to be tragedy and misfortune in life.  You lose your job, relatives get sick, employees embezzle money, debilitating auto accidents, mental illnesses, etc.  And then what?  For a divorced person, they have learned that it's easier to simply walk away.

Quote
Do you suggest we make excuses why we can't find a worthy woman like you and live a life of loneliness?

I do believe that when people divorce, they are saying they would rather be alone forever than to remain together with the person they married.  (And normally, they do promise to remain faithful to them until death, no matter what.)  If they are lonely, they can always reconcile.  If they don't want to reconcile, then they are saying they would prefer to be alone rather than to be with the person they promised their life with.

If it is such misery to remain alone, then they should accept that as a consequence of their actions.

Quote
My advice to you is to forget everything you've read or been told and experience life and as many relationships as you can both good and bad..... Divorced women,  never married, atheists, single mums, virgins (if you can find one) etc... Because you are missing out on meeting some amazing people.

Just because someone is amazing doesn't mean they are marriage material.  Just because you are good friends with someone, doesn't mean it would result in a good marriage.

You can also meet some absolutely miserable people in the bunch you named.

Quote
You'll find it's very rare you really know what a woman's like, despite her credentials on paper at the start of a relationship. It's only 6 months down the track, after the honeymoon period  that you start to see who she really is..... That tea-totaler, christian virgin is probably single because she's a psychopathic narcissist who won't reveal her true self until she has a ring on her finger and your child by her side.

Many of the characteristics I named provide a solid foundation for marriage.  Then you need to build a good friendship upon that foundation.  (A beautiful house with no foundation quickly falls apart.)  If you don't start to see who they really are until 6 months after you married them, then you didn't take enough time getting to know them while you were courting them.

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on February 10, 2019, 01:22:21 PM
“I have openly said that I courted with a girl for 4.5 years.”

just out of idle curiosity, was the girl you were obsessed with aware of this “courtship”, or just you?? cuz i’m kinda thinkin it was just you...

“Even worse is realizing that someone else may have been able to keep the situation from escalating to as bad as it got.”

even worse, is a little kid with no experience telling a veteran with PTSD how bad war is
Title: Re: Marriage strike
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 10, 2019, 01:26:54 PM
With respect to virginity/length of marriage - I suspect most women who remain virgins until marriage do so out of religious conviction.  They may also stay in bad marriages because of those convictions.  So, I wouldn't put too much stock into a correlation between the length of a marriage and virginity.


Are you suggesting you put more stock into the correlation between religious conviction and length of marriage, and virginity is just a casual side effect?

I don't discount that possibility, but I will say that it is difficult to measure religious conviction.

I don't know that I agree that more women are staying in bad marriages if they are virgins.  In the 1980's, 15% of women married as virgins, and the divorce rate was 11%.  Now in the 2000's, it's 3% virgin brides with a 6% divorce rate.  I think it's more socially acceptable to get divorced now.  There is greater public awareness, and more negative stigma against guys improperly treating wives.  I think that if women were just staying in bad marriages due to virginity, you would see a higher divorce rate now, as fewer women would be willing to stay in bad marriages.  It doesn't make sense to suggest that over the past 20 years, women would be more willing to stay in bad marriages now than 20 years ago.

I think we also need to define what a bad marriage is.
I'm sure we can all agree that abuse, infidelity, alcoholism, etc. are examples of bad marriages.
I know a couple that has been married around 30 years.  The wife is a manic depressive bipolar, who has been hospitalized a number of times over the years.  There are times the husband has to take care of her, the 5 kids, the home, and work.  It's rough on him.  Many men would have bailed out.  Is this a bad marriage?  She was a virgin bride.  (They are religious.)
I know a couple who are almost 70 years old.  30 some years ago, their only daughter got leukemia.  For about 5 years until the daughter died, the wife pretty much lived at the hospital in a big city a long drive from home, only coming home for a few hours on the weekends and then heading back to the hospital.  Ed went bald on top, and what remaining hair he had went white during that time.  He kept the farm going, and took care of the boys.  It was rough on all of them.  I've seen other couples divorce over far less.  They are one of the happiest couples I know though.  They still absolutely adore each other.  They were high school sweethearts who never dated anyone else.  (The wife attends church regularly, the husband rarely goes.)
I know another couple.  I am friends with the girl's brother.  The wife and her husband started dating when they were 14 or 15 in high school.  They went to the same college, and got married afterwards.  The wife decided she didn't want kids.  The husband wants kids.  (They do not attend church regularly.)

Are these bad marriages?  None involve abuse, infidelity, financial carelessness, or drug/alcohol abuse, etc.  Yet, they remain together, finding ways to overcome marital problems that would have resulted in divorce for many other people.
Title: Re: Marriage strike
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 10, 2019, 01:30:24 PM
Quite likely.

However, there is some percentage whose main reason for virginity is complete lack of desire.
Those are the ones to beware of (although hard to know beforehand) because that lack of desire will persist during marriage.

Same holds true for the virgin man.

I agree with you.  Sexual expectations do play a big part in marital happiness.  You need a lot of honest and open communication.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 10, 2019, 01:50:49 PM
You are looking everywhere not just the FSU,  deriving conclusions of marriage breakdown odds from statistical data founded in western culture ,is not going to apply to  many places in the world.


Only as small example ,if you feel decades of soviet mentality and structure in FSU countries shaped cultural views on virginity, marriage, diborce, relationship problem solving, conflict resolution, the same as  they are in the  western societies of the studies,  then go ahead and apply that data.

It's all generalization .
You are marrying an individual so none of that matters, but if you are trying to sort out an individual using generalized data, it needs to be data from that culture.

I believe FSU virgin brides have a lower chance of divorce than brides with several prior lovers.  I believe FSU brides on their first marriage will most likely have lower divorce rates than divorced FSU women who are remarrying.

Quote
Do you think a devout catholic Chilean from a small village fits your marraige data the same as a Buddhist from Bhutan ,on percentages of divorce for the same reasons in your study?

I consider Catholicism to be a religion, whereas Buddhism is a philosophy.  A Catholic can be a Buddhist trying to find the middle path.

While I do not know official statistics, I suspect a virgin bride from Chile and a virgin bride from Bhutan will have divorce rates much lower than their non-virgin or divorced countrywomen.

Quote
Your views that people are foolish who  remarry because the statistical odds are too great that it will not last speaks volumes.

I think it is foolish to remarry for many reasons, not just statistical odds.  The statistics just reinforce my beliefs.
If other people choose to engage in foolish things, that's their choice.  Don't get me wrong.  I view it like obesity, or drinking a lot.  Those are foolish life choices.  I wouldn't remarry, just as I wouldn't marry someone obese or who had drinking problems.  Others who choose to jump into that fire...don't say that nobody warned you if you get burned.

Another thing to think about.  I was raised that a person is only as good as their word.  If their word is worthless, then what is that person?
Keep in mind that when people marry, they promise to remain faithful, staying together until death, no matter how bad things may get.  If they can't keep their word tot he person who is supposed to be the most important person in the world to them, how can anyone ever really trust them?

Quote
If a persons  parents are divorced I suppose since the odds are worse, they should never try marraige.But seemingly, it's ok for them to try, as you see that as only a risk factor.

It's a small red flag.  It's not enough on its own to break the deal for me. (although I have heard it recommended on here that you should go after girls whose parents stayed married, as those girls are higher quality than girls who come from a broken home.)  However, combined with other risk factors, you are playing with fire.
Some risk factors are so high, I don't know how folks don't consider them dealbreakers.

Quote
You seem to draw a line in the sand in who should try, or not try, and firvtyem to still be considered a rational.person.lol

I draw a line in the sand who I am willing to date or not.
If others want to play with fire, I'm allowed to think they are idiots.  And they can't say that no one warned them when get burned.

Quote
Just how did you calculate  the cut off percent ?

I didn't state there was a cut-off percent.  That is a subjective evaluation, not objective.  Everyone has to make the personal decision what level of risk they are willing to accept.

In foresight, only you can decide if you (or a potential spouse) are marriage material or divorce material.  In hindsight, everyone can see if you were marriage material or divorce material.  The proof is in the pudding.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on February 10, 2019, 02:00:24 PM
“Same holds true for the virgin man.”

bee boy knows all about that

see...

“You need a lot of honest and open communication.”

seems like BB boy has a lotta explainin to do to any POTENTIAL mate
thankfully there aren’t any so the problem is purely theoretical!!!

how do you explain that you’re a virgin BB boy?
I have a pretty good idea they already know soon as they look at you   LOL!!!!!
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 10, 2019, 02:02:09 PM
As a person with training in scientific methodology, many of you are giving short shrift to the data presented by BeeMan.

You are resorting to idea that the data doesn't mean anything because any one person you are interested in can be different from the average as indicated in the data.

But that ignores the value of the data and the concept of probability.

For instance, if it is found that a certain type of plane has an accident rate significantly higher than average . . . I doubt many of you would say that you would have no worry flying on it because some of the planes in that category probably will not have the problem.  i.e. they are all individuals.

So the value of data and statistics is that they can help us in our screening process, just like we screen out for smoking, drinking, etc.

Sure you may decide to go against the odds with any particular gal/guy, but just admit you are being foolish rather than long winded arguments about . . . each person is different, bla bla bla.

+1

But, but, but, isn't suggesting someone is being foolish...isn't that about the worst insult you can hurl at someone?  Isn't having someone say that you are foolish or playing with fire tantamount to saying that you are a horrible, despicable person? 

If being foolish damns a person to Hell, then I'm screwed.  As a young boy, I caught a baby skunk.  I made a lasso out of a piece of baler twine, and drug it back to the house on its leash.  (In hindsight, it was foolish, and I never repeated the same mistake.)  Baby skunks can't spray right?  And it never turned around and lifted its tail at me...
But Grandma was about ready to skin me when I returned to the house.  I got a good scrub down in a bath of tomato juice.  If I wasn't so likeable, I probably would have had to spend the night sleeping in the haymow.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on February 10, 2019, 02:14:08 PM
"But Grandma was about ready to skin me when I returned to the house.  I got a good scrub down in a bath of tomato juice.  If I wasn't so likeable, I probably would have had to spend the night sleeping in the haymow."

I freakin loves me some hillbilly stories, yeee haaaw
tell the one where you saw the two dogs screwing and ya asked grandma if she ever did that, and the whippin you got!!!
what's it like living in "Hog Holler, Alabama"??
i'm guessin you're too slow to catch your sisters or cousins hence all the sexual frustration...
maybe diet and exercise or trip wires???
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 10, 2019, 02:14:28 PM
My issue with the data is source, accuracy and methodology.

The data is relational trends and does not state causation.  40 percent of all first marriages end in divorce...why?  There is no data for the reasons for divorce, just a bunch of numbers on the people who are divorced based on age, sex, religious leanings and sexual history.   Why do virgins divorce or stay married?  Why do sexually promiscuous men/women divorce or stay married?

Who cares?  Why would anyone care?  It's all academic.  This is the sort of stuff college educated idiots worry about, because they can't recognize what has practical value, and what does not.

Regardless of which specific problem married folks face, 40% divorce.  For whatever reason, they were unable/unwilling to overcome the problems in the marriage.  The specific problem doesn't matter.  The only thing that matters is that they were unwilling/unable to overcome the problem.

Now the thing to look at is what factors increase or decrease the probability that folks can overcome marital problems?

Quote
One point stated is 60% of all second marriages end in divorce.  This is misleading because it doesn't break into specifics - first time marriage for a man and second for the woman, second for the man and first for the woman, third marriage for the man and second for the woman, etc...  There are many more "second marriage" combinations than first marriage, and therefore it may be statistically comparable for first marriage when normalized over the number of combinations.

I hate to point out the obvious, but there are 2 people in a marriage.  It doesn't matter what the combination is.  60% of the people in a second marriage divorce.  If you, as an individual are divorced, there is a 60% probability you will get divorced.  If you are on your second marriage, and your partner their first, there is a 40% probability they will get divorced.

Quote
In the end you can infer that couples with higher income and who married later in life would have a better chance of a successful marriage.  Couples who are in  their first marriage have the fear of the unknown that may keep them in a bad marriage.  Couples who are in their second marriage are familiar with the divorce process and may resort to that earlier than trying to give counseling/therapy a chance.

But without the reasons for divorce given in the OP's wall of statistics, it is just an intellectual exercise without much actionable content.

Looking at specific reasons is an intellectual exercise in futility.  There are so many variable combinations that you can fractionate it down to the individual, and then the data is worthless beyond that individual.  You get blinded by the trees, and can't see the forest.

All things considered, roughly 40% of first marriages end in divorce.
For second marriages, it's over 60%.
For third marriages, it's 75%.  For fourth marriages, it's something like 84%.
I've never seen data beyond 4th marriages, probably because survey participants died of old age prior to completion of the study.

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 10, 2019, 02:16:20 PM
“I have openly said that I courted with a girl for 4.5 years.”

just out of idle curiosity, was the girl you were obsessed with aware of this “courtship”, or just you?? cuz i’m kinda thinkin it was just you...

“Even worse is realizing that someone else may have been able to keep the situation from escalating to as bad as it got.”

even worse, is a little kid with no experience telling a veteran with PTSD how bad war is

She was well aware, and an active participant.

But even a little kid CAN tell a vet how foolish it is to join the military and end up in a war.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 10, 2019, 02:22:05 PM
“Same holds true for the virgin man.”

bee boy knows all about that

see...

“You need a lot of honest and open communication.”

seems like BB boy has a lotta explainin to do to any POTENTIAL mate
thankfully there aren’t any so the problem is purely theoretical!!!

how do you explain that you’re a virgin BB boy?
I have a pretty good idea they already know soon as they look at you   LOL!!!!!

Where do you get the idea I am a virgin?  (I have not claimed to be a virgin, nor have I claimed to have many notches on my bedpost.)

Are you suggesting my horn rimmed glasses and pocket protector are sending the wrong message?  Or living in my mother's basement?

Good thing I don't wear horn rimmed glasses, pocket protectors, or live in my mother's basement.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on February 10, 2019, 02:23:42 PM
"She was well aware, and an active participant."

wait a minute?  for real?  you once had a girl friend?
was she blind?
I dated a blind girl once to!!
I took her out for a pick nick
and after dessert, she reached over and "grabbed me" aggressively
and then she whispered in my ear, "you have the biggest cock I ever felt"
to which I replied, "you're pulling my leg"

so BB boy, don't pull my leg to, OK??

Title: Bee farmer.....sexting and video
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 10, 2019, 05:01:57 PM
Bee farmer a lot of women from the fsu send revealing photos and want to do naked video chat.  While this thread has been running I've skim read the posts and made several such calls.  Should I bath in tomato juice. ?
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on February 10, 2019, 06:38:04 PM
"Should I bath in tomato juice"

you're British, so you don't understand..
it's an anecdotal remedy propagated among illiterate hillbillys for dealing with skunk spray
a skunk's like your badger sorta
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: SteveInBoston on February 10, 2019, 07:00:31 PM
I hate to point out the obvious, but there are 2 people in a marriage.  It doesn't matter what the combination is.  60% of the people in a second marriage divorce.  If you, as an individual are divorced, there is a 60% probability you will get divorced.  If you are on your second marriage, and your partner their first, there is a 40% probability they will get divorced.

Wrong.

The data does not state that.  It could be 2nd marriage for the man and 1st marriage for the woman result in 35% divorce rate.  It could be 2nd marriage for woman and 1st marriage for man result in 70% divorce rate.

Lump sum 60% of all second marriage is meaningless unless it can be applied to your situation.


It is less important to dwell on relational data instead of causation.  That is bad science.  Just a bunch of numbers to review as "hmm, interesting".


Bee,

You are instructing everyone here on how to drive a car when all you ever done is see some of your friends drive cars and read some books on it.   Oh, and you sat in a car for 4.5 years and almost drove.  Maybe when you actually have a successful marriage there may be something useful to read about.


Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 10, 2019, 11:15:55 PM
One thing about usa I could not get my head round was possums eating their own dead kin at the road side. 
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: ML on February 11, 2019, 11:13:14 AM
One thing about usa I could not get my head round was possums eating their own dead kin at the road side.

They just feel they should be good citizens and clean up the environment.
Sometimes they  subcontract out to buzzards.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: jone on February 11, 2019, 11:24:37 AM
One thing about usa I could not get my head round was possums eating their own dead kin at the road side.

Reminds me of the Cannibal who passed his Mother-in-law in the woods.....
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on February 11, 2019, 01:35:49 PM
"Reminds me of the Cannibal who passed his Mother-in-law in the woods....."

I hope everything came out all right!!!
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 11, 2019, 05:15:48 PM
Wrong.

The data does not state that.  It could be 2nd marriage for the man and 1st marriage for the woman result in 35% divorce rate.  It could be 2nd marriage for woman and 1st marriage for man result in 70% divorce rate.

The data is from the National Survey of Family Growth, which surveyed individuals.
This was not a survey of couples.  The only way your argument would be valid is if it was a survey of couples.

Quote
It is less important to dwell on relational data instead of causation.  That is bad science.  Just a bunch of numbers to review as "hmm, interesting".

The proof is in the pudding.  Do you know what that means?  Kinda debunks your assertion, doesn't it?

Quote
Bee,

You are instructing everyone here on how to drive a car when all you ever done is see some of your friends drive cars and read some books on it.   Oh, and you sat in a car for 4.5 years and almost drove.  Maybe when you actually have a successful marriage there may be something useful to read about.

Shooting the messenger, when you don't like the message?

Where have I instructed people how to live their lives? (ie, driving a car)  I do believe in giving people facts, and letting them make their own decisions.  With that said, I have no problem saying I think they are an idiot if they decide to play with fire.
Stating the decisions I make, and how I choose to live my life is not an instruction to others to live as I do.  Leading by example is not instructing others.

It would be more accurate to say that we should disregard marital advice of divorced people, rather than being condescending towards someone who is unmarried.  After all, divorced people have failed at marriage.  If they really knew how to have a successful marriage, they would not be divorced.  You see, an unmarried person has the potential to have a successful marriage.  A divorced person does not have that potential, as they will always be a failure at a successful marriage. (unless they reconcile with their ex)
This is why society values children, and not elderly.  Children have potential.
While I have not been married, I have avoided common relationship problems that have befallen others.  That alone suggests some measure of wisdom.

A wise person would say to pay attention to an unmarried person's words, who has been able to avoid common problems, albeit with a grain of salt.
It is also wise to pay attention to a divorced person's words, albeit with another grain of salt.
Title: Re: Bee farmer.....sexting and video
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 11, 2019, 05:20:07 PM
Bee farmer a lot of women from the fsu send revealing photos and want to do naked video chat.  While this thread has been running I've skim read the posts and made several such calls.  Should I bath in tomato juice. ?

The acid in tomato juice supposedly helps break down the skunk spray.  It's a recommended folk remedy for pets or anything which has been sprayed by a skunk to help reduce the odor.

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 11, 2019, 05:21:37 PM
One thing about usa I could not get my head round was possums eating their own dead kin at the road side.

Chickens will eat their own dead too.

Honeybees have been known to cannibalize brood in times of protein dearths.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on February 11, 2019, 05:48:44 PM
“Shooting the messenger, when you don't like the message?”

no, let’s be perfectly clear, NO ONE HERE LIKES THE MESSENGER!!!!!!
you should be used to this reaction to your personality by now...
and as a consequence the amount an amoeba drinks each day is a hell of a lot more than anyone on this board thinks about your quaint hillbilly customs and language taught to you by granny and uncle jed!!! 

look jethro, the bar in ukraine is set low, real low...
instead of a 1/4 mile with hurdles
you have two steps and a piece of string to walk over
and what did you do?
you took one step forward, two steps backward and then fell over on your ass in a puddle of your own urine
the only way to do worse than you would be to take two steps backwards and then have uncontrollable violent diarrhea in front of a crowd of hundreds of people while wearing white pants!
the HUMILIATION...
"please granny, don't beat me, I won't touch my PEE PEE no more!!!"
this is YOU!!!!


dewd, I think we can safely assume beyond a reasonable measure of doubt that nature just flat out doesn’t support the idea of you EVER reproducing...
god’s seed has fallen on barren ground and i'm sure you're spillin plenty of your seed as well, ewwwww... over 20 years, since the last time I did that, probably what, 20 minutes ago for you?

bee farmer,
you know what I'm tellin you is true
guys who are lonely and socially isolated tend to masturbate a LOT, right???
imagine the "mental effects" of doing that year in and year out, over and over and over and over
you know that instead of having sex the natural way, the way GOD INTENDED but intead do it in an "unnatural way"
that it's a sin, right?????
Book of Genesis chapter 38
Onanism
BeeFarmer from now on EVERY single time you spill your seed
I want the words, "IT'S A SIN!!!!" to flash in your mind...
cuz the bible sez you're a sinner bee boy, and you're gonna BURN...
sizzle..sizzle...
HAHAHAHAHA, see you in HELL bee boy HAHAHAHA!!!!

PS
bee boy
do you realize you've received more sexual gratification from the hand of a man than you have received from a woman
so what does that make YOU bee boy!!!
I can just imagine the twisted little fantasies that go on in your fevered brain each night before you go to bed
a life of quiet desperation and deep frustration topped off with a thick layer of denial

PS II
bee boy,
if your experience of sexual gratification has not EXCLUSIVELY been accomplished by you stroking yourself, not only physically with your pudgy little hand flying up and down faster than a 2 stroke cylinder fueled by straight nitro, but mentally as well with god only knows what dark twisted images pulled out of your repressed sexual fantasies that violate EVERY known taboo...
then it has undoubtedly, and I mean undoubtedly has made up the vast majority of the total “happy moments"

and guess what bee bee boy
you know the old wive’s tale that excessive masturbation can cause “mental enfeeblement”
maybe...
maybe, they were right...





Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: SteveInBoston on February 11, 2019, 06:45:14 PM
The data is from the National Survey of Family Growth, which surveyed individuals.
This was not a survey of couples.  The only way your argument would be valid is if it was a survey of couples.

The proof is in the pudding.  Do you know what that means?  Kinda debunks your assertion, doesn't it?

Shooting the messenger, when you don't like the message?

Where have I instructed people how to live their lives? (ie, driving a car)  I do believe in giving people facts, and letting them make their own decisions.


1) Really?  You just spouted numbers without references.  Your data states all second marriages - what is the definition of "all"?  Link please, no more hearsay.

2) What?  More nonsense from you?  What pudding, what proof?  Are you Bill Cosby?  And if you want to seem scientific, at the very least list and link to specific sources, not just random internet data.  National Survey of Family Growth has many studies and publications - which ones specifically?

3) You have no message.  Your title is Are you marriage or divorce material.  All you've delivered was data on people who are married or divorce.  So your message is if you are married you are marriage material and if you are divorced you are divorce material?  Are you kidding me?

4)  Is your memory that bad?  Didn't you go on a rant about someone divorced and marrying again is like drinking and driving again?  Wasn't your point of that diatribe to tell people to don't get married a second (or third) time? 

I was going to say go back to your books but that would be giving you too much credit.  Go back to your internet and come back when you've actually connected with someone and had some real experience.  And I mean that sincerely.  Connect with real women, find the right relationship for you rather than endlessly surfing and pondering.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: rwd123 on February 11, 2019, 10:59:17 PM
Bee Farmer - Your views on marriage and divorce coalesce a figure devoid of intimate relationships. In other words, ignorance. It's no surprise others provide condescending feedback to your questionable hypotheses. There's value in being both "book smart" and "street smart", but relationships require more of the latter. That is, experience.

The best golfers end up in bunkers or lose their balls to water holes - sometimes even miss the cut, and still win tournaments. You're trying to provide advice to experienced golfers when you've never picked up a club. Get in the game. You'll have air swings, whack up mounds of dirt, maybe even feel stupid - but it's the only way to start.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: msmob on February 12, 2019, 12:47:53 AM
Bee Farmer - Your views on marriage and divorce coalesce a figure devoid of intimate relationships. In other words, ignorance. It's no surprise others provide condescending feedback to your questionable hypotheses. There's value in being both "book smart" and "street smart", but relationships require more of the latter. That is, experience.

The best golfers end up in bunkers or lose their balls to water holes - sometimes even miss the cut, and still win tournaments. You're trying to provide advice to experienced golfers when you've never picked up a club. Get in the game. You'll have air swings, whack up mounds of dirt, maybe even feel stupid - but it's the only way to start.

Astounding  riposte ...Bang on target.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on February 12, 2019, 05:51:54 AM
I WAS gonna say that...

have you ever seen how an animal that has been abused by its owner behaves?
this is how bee boy behaves!

so who was it that beat you bee boy, granny or uncle jed?
my money’s on granny and that this wretchedly cruel woman probably made you cut your own “long", “thick" hickory switches, and then she pulled down “your drawers” and wacked that skinny little white ass of yours as hard as she could!
I wonder how many times this happened?
sometimes did granny do this to you in front of other kids?
did the little girls all giggle and point at your “you know what”? hmmmm...???

I can certainly see how dealing with this early child hood trauma
could impair your sexual development

now, if you claim my analysis of the origin of your undeveloped sexual behavior is incorrect
then please provide an alternate explanation that explains your behavior better than the one I have just presented...
or just be silent and this will be your tacit acceptance of your wretchedness...

do remember bee boy, you came at me first
and you missed by a mile
my aim is VERY MUCH MORE ACCURATE, don't you agree?

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Jumper on February 14, 2019, 12:28:22 AM
Quote from: BeeFarmer
I'm saying that divorced people will never fight to overcome marital problems as someone who is in their first marriage.

You have a couple of valid points then throw out stuff like this.


You have no idea if one or the other party, in either case , would try harder to
keep a marraige intact.
Statistics do not prove that one way or the other, nor would it apply to any given  couple.


You keep forgetting the crucial part,  that it only takes one person to no longer be committed to a marriage for it to fail.


I know without any doubt I'm  better equipped to handle relationship  challenges ,than in my youth.

My first wife passed away, so my lack of  experience in relationship skills, dint cause the marriage to end.

Nothing in your survey did.
I have a child I'm very proud of from that marriage, who has grown into a fine young man I admire.
We had a marraige people aspire to, and I have zero regrets other than an unfortunate accident that I wasn't involved in.


My  second marriage ended in amicable divorce,  not something you eem to really understand or condone.
I respect your convictions.

You can feel I'm an idiot for remarrying.

And I can feel your perspective is
lacking any depth.

Since I'm on my third marraige the statistics are grim.
Since neither my wife or I are statistics,  it doesn't  bother me in the least .
We have a wonderful relationship ,marraige, and family, and are blessed with an amazing child.
 I'd not experience that if going by statistical probability coupled with a crippling fear of failure. If i had allowed that to regulate my choice to  remarry, I'd certainly be an idiot.















Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 21, 2019, 05:54:05 PM
bee farmer,
you know what I'm tellin you is true

What I know is that your typical MO is to hurl insults at anyone you disagree with, hoping something will stick.  Sadly, you are so far out in left field it isn't funny.

Your inferiority complex is astounding.  You resort to childish behavior in an attempt to drag others down, so you don't seem so bad by comparison.  It's really sad and pathetic that a grown person would act the way you do.  You've complained about how Ukrainians tried to take advantage of you at every opportunity.  Have you ever considered that you attracted that negative attention to yourself?  That people were like that towards you simply because you don't know how to treat people with respect?

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 21, 2019, 06:14:49 PM
1) Really?  You just spouted numbers without references.  Your data states all second marriages - what is the definition of "all"?  Link please, no more hearsay

I also told you that a lot was drawn from the National Survey of Family Growth.
If you're interested in researching further, Uncle Google is your friend.  You shouldn't need me to spoonfeed you information.

Quote
What?  More nonsense from you?  What pudding, what proof?  Are you Bill Cosby?  And if you want to seem scientific, at the very least list and link to specific sources, not just random internet data.  National Survey of Family Growth has many studies and publications - which ones specifically?

Are you not familiar with the expression, the proof is in the pudding?  Google it.

I believe there have been at least 3 NSFG surveys done.

Quote
3) You have no message.  Your title is Are you marriage or divorce material.  All you've delivered was data on people who are married or divorce.  So your message is if you are married you are marriage material and if you are divorced you are divorce material?  Are you kidding me?

My message is not that if you are married you are marriage material, and if you are divorced you are divorce material.

The expression if one is marriage material (or divorce material) refers to someone who is not married.

I have not judged if anyone is marriage or divorce material.  What I did was present facts, with the objective of getting people to be introspective, and judge themselves with an honest eye, if they have good potential for a successful marriage, or if they are on the train tracks headed over a divorce cliff. 

I look at it as a spectrum, with having a good foundation for marriage on one end, and a high likelihood at the other end.  Most people will be somewhere in the middle, which means they should approach marriage with extreme caution, and others should approach marriage with them with extreme caution.  I look at the risk factors like red flags.  If you get very many, it seldom ends well.

It appears that you believe you are divorce material, and are transferring your emotional response to me.  In reality, your anger is properly placed at yourself if you have risk factors for divorce, as they are the consequences of your decisions.

Quote
4)  Is your memory that bad?  Didn't you go on a rant about someone divorced and marrying again is like drinking and driving again?  Wasn't your point of that diatribe to tell people to don't get married a second (or third) time? 

The only person ranting is you.

I do believe people who are divorced are foolish (and lacking in integrity) if they pursue marriage again.
I also believe people are foolish who run up a lot of credit card debt, don't keep themselves at a healthy weight, drink excessively, chase every skirt that walks by, etc.
I also believe people have the right to act foolishly, and they will suffer the consequences.

Quote
come back when you've actually connected with someone and had some real experience. 

I do have relationship experience.  I have never been married.  I consider that a one time thing.

Quote
Connect with real women, find the right relationship for you rather than endlessly surfing and pondering.

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

Before you build a house, you need a solid foundation.  Otherwise, even the most beautiful of houses will fall apart.

Before you build the right relationship, you need a solid foundation to build that relationship on.  Otherwise, it will fall apart.

Single women with that solid foundation I look for are few and far between.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 21, 2019, 06:27:32 PM
Bee Farmer - Your views on marriage and divorce coalesce a figure devoid of intimate relationships. In other words, ignorance.

Then you're not reading it correctly.  I'm not devoid of intimate relationships.

Just because I don't have any tattoos doesn't mean I can't recognize the folly of getting drunk and getting a tattoo for no significant reason.

Quote
It's no surprise others provide condescending feedback to your questionable hypotheses.

I suspect it largely has to do with the class of people.  Birds of a feather, flock together.  If you get around groups of people where divorce is very uncommon, the data I provided is widely accepted.  If you get around people who are all divorced and often have many risk factors for divorce, they want to believe they are the exception, and they are just as capable of having a successful relationship as anyone else.

I still believe that the purpose of marriage is to provide the best environment you can for the raising of children.  Once you pass the stage of having children, getting married doesn't have the same significance anymore.

Quote
The best golfers end up in bunkers or lose their balls to water holes - sometimes even miss the cut, and still win tournaments.

That's not a very good analogy.
Let's suppose that you are going to play a couples tournament, but you have never played in a tournament before.  If you lose the tournament, you will be stricken with a non-fatal form of cancer.  It will cost you 15 or 20 years of your life, and $250,000 or more.
Who are you going to choose as a partner?  The person who keeps hitting the ball into sand traps and water holes during practice, or a person who is consistent and is in control?

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 21, 2019, 06:33:59 PM
You have a couple of valid points then throw out stuff like this.


You have no idea if one or the other party, in either case , would try harder to
keep a marraige intact.
Statistics do not prove that one way or the other, nor would it apply to any given  couple.


You keep forgetting the crucial part,  that it only takes one person to no longer be committed to a marriage for it to fail.


Jumper, people who have already divorced, when the going gets tough, they will quit again.  That's just their nature.

Yes, it only takes one person for a marriage to fail...which is why it is so important to choose wisely.

Quote
My first wife passed away, so my lack of  experience in relationship skills, dint cause the marriage to end.

Nothing in your survey did.
I have a child I'm very proud of from that marriage, who has grown into a fine young man I admire.
We had a marraige people aspire to, and I have zero regrets other than an unfortunate accident that I wasn't involved in.

My condolences on the loss of your wife.  The death of a spouse is a tragedy.

Quote
My  second marriage ended in amicable divorce,  not something you eem to really understand or condone.
I respect your convictions.

You can feel I'm an idiot for remarrying.

And I can feel your perspective is
lacking any depth.

Since I'm on my third marraige the statistics are grim.

I don't hold it against any widow or widower for remarrying.  They honored their marriage vows.

Now I do think you are foolish for marrying a 3rd time after you got divorced from the second wife.

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on February 21, 2019, 06:38:56 PM
Pure speculation in my part, but I am guessing, Jumper, that your current wife was not a virgin when you married. That’s strike 3. You’re doomed.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Doomed, no.
25% of 3rd marriages stay together.
Some people are comfortable with those odds, some are not.  I suspect that the older someone is, the more they are betting the marriage will be terminated by death rather than divorce.

And just because a lady is not a virgin does not mean that she has had a lot of partners either.  Hoes definitely don't make good wives, but just because a girl is not a virgin does not make her a hoe.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on February 21, 2019, 06:41:11 PM
" I'm not devoid of intimate relationships."

Bee Boy your right hand has provided you with 100% of all of your "intimate relationships"
EVERYONE here sees that!!!
and that's the only  intimate relationship you're knowledgeable of...
a parrot can mimic what it hears
and you can mimic what you read
but both you and the parrot have zero comprehension... ZERO!

so pipe down boy
or granny is gonna pull down your drawers and give you a good whipping in front of the other kids again!!!!
and the girls will all wildly gesture at your little "you know what" as it bounces up and down with each stoke of the whip on your quivering behind
how humiliating for you...

you do know  that according to the Bible, masturbation is a SIN, right?????
from now on, every time you're doing it, I want you to remember this....
hopefully, this will not interfere with your enjoyment of it...

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: msmob on February 22, 2019, 04:35:03 AM

Now I do think you are foolish for marrying a 3rd time after you got divorced from the second wife.

I really do wish this bug that allows ignored posters 'quoted' tosh to appear gets sorted )))

BF ....  As to who is the fool - you might not realise (or care) - but I have a feeling our Jumper has a mite more respect re his views / life-style choices .. 

No one marries with an aim of failing and I have two kids who would  not be around  - so no regrets on that score
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: SteveInBoston on February 22, 2019, 05:51:13 AM
Bee,

NSFG publishes a report every 2-3 years since 1973 - there's not just 3 or 4.  You should look it up sometime rather than copying and pasting data randomly from the internet. 

rwd123's analogy was about someone with no experience going out to the world to gain experience, which fits your situation.  You're analogy is about someone experienced, a pro even, finding a right partner, which is flawed because it does not apply to you.

If you insist on ignoring others here, then the best partner for you, based on your data, is a man who earns over $70k, never married, and not more than 9 years younger or older.  Numbers don't lie, yes?
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Jumper on March 01, 2019, 11:45:25 PM
Quote from: Bee Farmer
Jumper, people who have already divorced, when the going gets tough, they will quit again.  That's just their nature.

Yes, it only takes one person for a marriage to fail...which is why it is so important to choose wisely.

I'm sorry you dont seem to notice the contradiction of recognizing it takes two  committed partners,yet say someone already once divorced well surely quit again, impliying its because they did before.



I understand you added the * they quit ...when the going gets tough* as a qualifier .

But you are over generalizing ,then using  specifics, to substantiate  them.

Again, any given divorcee is only half the equation.
They may have been the cause , they may tried everything possible but were abandoned by their spouse regardless.
Or any degree in between.

I understand the generality is the average.


Generally youd be better off to marry when you are 98. Why not concentrate on that?
Because its accurate,yet foolish?


So applying general statistics seems a rather flawed concept to apply in the selection process.

It seldom would apply to a random specific individual,especially in the context that no matter what,they were always only 50 percent of the equation.

That's somehow not a significant factor?

I think the reason someone divorced,or never married , are really important factors such studies arnt going to show.

There are a lot of never married men and women that are that way for fairly solid reasons, reasons far more prone to causing a divorce than a statistically perfect candidate by the data.

I'm certain you've factored that in, it just doesn't come across that way.








Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 31, 2019, 12:15:46 AM
I'm sorry you dont seem to notice the contradiction of recognizing it takes two  committed partners,yet say someone already once divorced well surely quit again, impliying its because they did before.

I understand you added the * they quit ...when the going gets tough* as a qualifier .

But you are over generalizing ,then using  specifics, to substantiate  them.

I understand the generality is the average.

It's not the average.  2/3 of divorced people who remarry, get divorced again.
No one gets divorced during good times.  It's when the going gets rough, people start thinking running away is easier than working on the problems.  From my observations, divorced people think they have learned how to have a good marriage by learning how to avoid the problems, but they never learn how to work through problems.  The problem is, there is always going to be tragedy and injustice that many people face.  There are always going to be problems.

Why do you refuse to see that people are responsible for their actions?
Yes, it takes two committed partners, but you are 100% responsible for both of them.  Both people are 100% responsible.  Quit trying to blame one party or another.
You can control your side of the relationship.  You also control the other side of the relationship, because you chose them.  If they don't act the way you desire, it is your fault, because they are what you chose.

Quote
Again, any given divorcee is only half the equation.
They may have been the cause , they may tried everything possible but were abandoned by their spouse regardless.
Or any degree in between.

You're wrong.  Any divorcee is 100% of the equation.
They were responsible for their own actions and efforts.
They were responsible for choosing their partner.
Both of those halves equal 100%.

Quote
Generally youd be better off to marry when you are 98. Why not concentrate on that?
Because its accurate,yet foolish?

If the ONLY thing that was important to you was a marriage that lasted until natural death, that would be a viable solution.
However, most normal people want someone to spend their life with, plus a marriage that lasts until natural death.
And that makes it foolish for you to even suggest waiting until age 98.

Quote
So applying general statistics seems a rather flawed concept to apply in the selection process.

Says the divorced person to the person who has never divorced. 
And that blows your argument out of the water.  Gee, the evidence shows your selection process failed.  Maybe you should have tried a selection process with a higher success rate.

Quote
It seldom would apply to a random specific individual,especially in the context that no matter what,they were always only 50 percent of the equation.

That's somehow not a significant factor?

But they are not only 50% of the equation.  They are 100%. 
The people who argue that they were only 50% are people who refuse to accept responsibility for their actions. 
If your partner exhibits a behavior you don't like, it is 100% your fault, because you chose them as a partner.

Quote
I think the reason someone divorced,or never married , are really important factors such studies arnt going to show.

Every situation is unique, but you can get a good idea of things to look for in a partner, if they have the qualities that create a strong foundation for marriage or not.  There comes a point that small details why they divorced become irrelevant, as you can't see the forest (big picture) because of all the trees (details).

Quote
There are a lot of never married men and women that are that way for fairly solid reasons, reasons far more prone to causing a divorce than a statistically perfect candidate by the data.

I'm certain you've factored that in, it just doesn't come across that way.

Of the guys I know who never married, aside from the problem areas identified as risk factors for divorce, (drug/alcohol problems, obesity) common themes tend to be an abusive/neglectful mother, a heartbreak over a failed relationship,  or they are in general, a useless guy...or simply unrealistic expectations.
Of women I know who never married, common themes are childhood sexual abuse, heartbreak over a failed relationship, or so ugly or fat they can't attract a decent guy...or they have unrealistic expectations.

There is something you seem to forget.  There is something known as trust, which is a vital part of a successful relationship.
A divorced person can never be trusted.  They have proven that they can't be trusted.
All you can do is hope. A relationship with someone divorced is based upon hope, not upon trust.

They made a sacred vow and covenant to remain with another person (who supposedly was the most important person in the world to them), no matter what, until death.
And they broke that vow.
Any promise they make to you, or you to them, is no different than the vow you made to the person you were divorced from.
They can never trust you to be honorable, because you have already dishonored yourself.  (The definition of honor is to fulfill your obligations.)
Divorce is dishonor, and pursuing another relationship after divorce is an even greater dishonor.

In my opinion, only a fool would marry someone who was divorced.  I have no intention of being such a fool, so I choose not to marry a woman who has been divorced.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: msmob on March 31, 2019, 05:07:10 AM
It's a shame that folk quote BF - it means those of us that block his righteous BS get to see it ..((

This is a classic

"Divorced people cannot be trusted"..

I am divorced .. TWICE, now ..     

You had better contact SC, fast - to 'save' her ....








Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: fathertime on March 31, 2019, 06:37:55 AM

If the ONLY thing that was important to you was a marriage that lasted until natural death, that would be a viable solution.
However, most normal people want someone to spend their life with, plus a marriage that lasts until natural death.

And that makes it foolish for you to even suggest waiting until age 98.

Utter bullshit.  Who says that most normal people want to spend their life with the same woman/man until their natural death?  Plenty of people are happy to move from relationship to relationship, even plenty of people that were once married. 


They can never trust you to be honorable, because you have already dishonored yourself.  (The definition of honor is to fulfill your obligations.)
Divorce is dishonor, and pursuing another relationship after divorce is an even greater dishonor.

In my opinion, only a fool would marry someone who was divorced.  I have no intention of being such a fool, so I choose not to marry a woman who has been divorced.
You are applying your own standard to others.  Some people don't take marriage as seriously as you do.  You can judge people how you like, although that does make you extremely judgmental.  I have a couple buddies in really horrible marriages, I don't see them as any more honorable than the buddies that divorced.  The guys that remained in the bad marriages just don't have the guts to pull out because they are fearful of the unknown, so they cope with a bad situation, and probably hope their spouse dies.    If I had the choice between the two, I'd pull out of the marriage rather cheerfully, and wouldn't feel dishonored.  The truth is I'm rather judgmental myself, for example, if I see a guy around 40 or so that hasn't been  married, I usually think he is a loser that hasn't had the courage to take a chance.  Too fearful he may make a mistake.   

Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Davo on March 31, 2019, 11:12:56 AM
I used to think you had some good advice, now all I see is a religious nut job. You must be so bitter and jealous that divorced people are enjoying life, finding love and experiencing what you can only dream of.

Although I say I was divorced (saves me explaining my tail of woe and why I was engaged for 20 years, over and over again), I was never married.... where does that leave me?.... Am I trust worthy because I didn’t sign a document for the magic, invisible sky wizzard?

Forget about how other people live their lives and concentrate on yourself being a better man. I guess you can be forgiven as your experience with woman is so little, that you haven’t worked out they can smell BS from a mile and away.... and you’re full of it.

You’re like a steam engine that’s trying to plough ten thousand acres.... lots of noise and hot air, but when it comes to the crunch you’re aspirations exceed your ability and realistically, you’re not relevant in today’s modern times.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on March 31, 2019, 11:49:49 AM
bee boy, what'd I tell ya?
I'm beginning to think that you LIKED it when Granny pulled down "your drawers" and whipped that skinny little white behind of yours in front of the other kids
and that you liked it so much that it produced a "physical manifestation" of how much you liked it!

I hope you got your right hand a new glove for valentine's day as a show of appreciation
but in the sky daddy book it clearly sez your behavior is sinful
and that when you die, your soul will journey far beneath the earth, even below the oil and gas fields
until you get to Hell, and there you shall burn for all of eternity
for the sin of Onanism
I can only imagine what the Onaniam part of Hell must be like or the punishments served up there

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 31, 2019, 01:37:11 PM
It's a shame that folk quote BF - it means those of us that block his righteous BS get to see it ..((

This is a classic

"Divorced people cannot be trusted"..

I am divorced .. TWICE, now ..     

You had better contact SC, fast - to 'save' her ....

Does SC think for even one minute that the two of you will remain together for the rest of your lives?  Or does she accept that it is likely temporary, and is only enjoying it for as long as it lasts?  Do you think she understands that there is a very real possibility that it will not last?

Maybe she is ok with such an arrangement.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Davo on March 31, 2019, 01:45:46 PM
Does SC think for even one minute that the two of you will remain together for the rest of your lives?  Or does she accept that it is likely temporary, and is only enjoying it for as long as it lasts?  Do you think she understands that there is a very real possibility that it will not last?

Maybe she is ok with such an arrangement.

I think you’re failing to see the obvious, why is it any of your business how two grown adults live their lives? If they are happy what right on you have to impose your warped sense of morality on them?

You’re a stranger on the internet, you don’t know them and it’s not your place to say anything about their relationship..... don’t you agree???
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on March 31, 2019, 01:56:09 PM
"Maybe she is ok with such an arrangement."

even though you and your right hand are struggling over issues in your own relationship (like how much time you've been spending with your left hand)
you both still take the time to try and help others with their relationship issues.
that's so endearing...
do you make a little sock puppet for your hand or do you just ride "bare back"
what is state of the art in Onanism these days
myself, I've forgotten completely how to do it, I was probably a teenager, the last time


Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 31, 2019, 01:58:18 PM
Utter bullshit.  Who says that most normal people want to spend their life with the same woman/man until their natural death?  Plenty of people are happy to move from relationship to relationship, even plenty of people that were once married. 


Monogamy is pretty much a human universal.

From a biological/evolutionary standpoint, humans have evolved to be monogamous.
Relative to body size, human males have large penises and small testicles.  Human females have large breasts.  These things are common among monogamous species.
Polygamous males have large testicles (for increased sperm production) and small penises.

Humans have no penis bone.  When you look at penis shape, polygamous animals have penises with bumps and bends and ridges.  Monogamous animals have a penis that is consistent and smooth.

From an evolutionary standpoint, polygamous humans died out.  Something was missing, that was needed for successful continuation of the species.  Monogamy survived because it was fitter.

Quote
You are applying your own standard to others. 

How am I applying my own standards to others?

Quote
Some people don't take marriage as seriously as you do. 

People who do not take marriage seriously end up suffering bad consequences, such as divorce, and kids being raised in single parent homes (those kids do not do as well), or even worse, kids being raised in homes with someone other than a natural parent, such as step-parents or mom/dad's boyfriend/girlfriend. (8 times the child abuse rates of kids with both biological parents.)

The evidence is quite clear that people who do not take marriage seriously suffer horrible consequences.

Quote
You can judge people how you like, although that does make you extremely judgmental.

There's nothing wrong with being judgemental.  People are supposed to be judgemental.

Quote
I have a couple buddies in really horrible marriages, I don't see them as any more honorable than the buddies that divorced.

Are they fulfilling their obligations, even if it is a horrible marriage?  If so, then they are honorable.  That's what honorable means.  That's the definition.

Quote
The guys that remained in the bad marriages just don't have the guts to pull out because they are fearful of the unknown, so they cope with a bad situation, and probably hope their spouse dies.

You're speculating.

People who don't have guts are cowards, and are the ones who pull out.  People with guts will keep trying to work through problems.

Quote
If I had the choice between the two, I'd pull out of the marriage rather cheerfully, and wouldn't feel dishonored.

Then maybe you are blindly ignorant of what being honorable means?  If you don't keep your promises and obligations, then you have dishonored yourself.

Quote
The truth is I'm rather judgmental myself, for example, if I see a guy around 40 or so that hasn't been  married, I usually think he is a loser that hasn't had the courage to take a chance.  Too fearful he may make a mistake.   

Perhaps they are a 'loser,' but they still have the potential to be a winner.
Someone who is divorced is a bigger loser, and a failure.  Their only hope of not being a failure is to reconcile with their ex.

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 31, 2019, 02:11:18 PM
I used to think you had some good advice, now all I see is a religious nut job.

How am I a religious nut job?  I don't go to church.  I don't tell people they should live their life a certain way, simply because a religious text says to.  I do hope that people would live by the libertarian creed of peaceful, voluntary, and honest.

Is it because my views mirror some views advocated by religions?  Does that make me a religious nut job?
If so, since religions teach that it is wrong to murder, rape, and steal, if you believe it is wrong to murder, rape, and steal, then that makes you a religious nut job too.

Quote
Although I say I was divorced (saves me explaining my tail of woe and why I was engaged for 20 years, over and over again), I was never married.... where does that leave me?.... Am I trust worthy because I didn’t sign a document for the magic, invisible sky wizzard?

Saying you are divorced if you are not divorced is dishonest, which means you should not be trusted.
A person is only as good as their word, and if they break their promises and obligations, then they can't be trusted.

Quote
Forget about how other people live their lives and concentrate on yourself being a better man.

A better man looks at a girl's past of how she has lived her life, which is why I won't date a girl who has kids or is divorced.  Only a fool would ignore how others live their lives.
If someone has a history of being dishonest or breaking their word, I would have to be an idiot to ignore how they have lived their life.

Would you lend money to someone who never pays people back, or who has filed bankruptcy?  You're asking for trouble if you do.
It's no difference getting involved with someone who is divorced.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 31, 2019, 02:24:11 PM
I think you’re failing to see the obvious, why is it any of your business how two grown adults live their lives? If they are happy what right on you have to impose your warped sense of morality on them?

You’re a stranger on the internet, you don’t know them and it’s not your place to say anything about their relationship..... don’t you agree???

No, I don't agree with you.

As long as people act in ways that are peaceful, voluntary, and honest, I could care less with what they do.  I may not agree with it, but if they want to be foolish, that is their choice.

If I see someone breaking into my neighbor's house, or assaulting my neighbor, are you saying that I should say nothing because it does not affect me?

When someone makes a vow to stay married until death, no matter what, and they don't keep their word, everyone has a moral obligation to stand up and say something, because it does affect everyone else.

The foundation of a civil society is trust.  Without trust, society falls apart.

But what you are describing creates a victim - your ex.  Your new relationship is based upon fraud, as you still have prior unmet obligations.

Next you will say that this is the internet, and no one should be allowed to say anything you disagree with.  What a snowflake.

And just out of curiosity, how am I imposing my own warped sense of morality on others by pointing out marriage and divorce statistics, and by not being willing to date a woman who is divorced or has kids?
No one is forcing you to read my posts, much less forcing you to live by the standards I live my own life by.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Davo on March 31, 2019, 02:27:36 PM
Mate, don’t you get it..... most of us are divorced or have survived a long term failed relationship. We don’t want to hear your sh*t!!!

Maybe if it come from someone who had a good track record with women and was in a successful long term marriage, we could respect their point of view, but not someone who has never lived with a woman, let alone married one and to top it off most of us would avoid you like the plague in real life, due to your left field  religious views.

You would have a better reception with a mega phone and handing out fliers the other religious nutters on the street.....

Before you say it, I do respect people of faith. Thursday I attended church with a wonderful divorced woman and watched her say a prayer for a friend who passed away two years to the day. It was a beautiful thing to witness from a woman who in your eyes can’t be trusted.

Your making a fool of yourself and showing just how inexperienced you are when it comes to relationships. Wtf are you even doing on this site, to begin with???

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Davo on March 31, 2019, 02:34:04 PM
I read the first few word of your reply to
me and realised it was just going to be the same BS.....

Where I come from we affectionately a Mate a C%*t and a C%*t a Mate ...... Mate!!! 👍
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: AnonMod on March 31, 2019, 02:34:19 PM
Mate, don’t you get it..... most of us are divorced or have survived a long term failed relationship. We don’t want to hear your sh*t!!!

If you don't want to read what BeeFarmer posts, there is a simple solution.  Don't read it. 
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Davo on March 31, 2019, 02:40:50 PM
If you don't want to read what BeeFarmer posts, there is a simple solution.  Don't read it.

Probably the most sensible thing I’ve been told on this thread.... better still I’ll ork out how to use the block function.... thanks 😊
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: AnonMod on March 31, 2019, 02:47:09 PM
Go to "Profile" on the top ribbon.  Click on "Summary".  Then hover your mouse over "Modify Profile".  You will see a number of options, including "Buddies/Ignore List".  Hover over that to get an "Edit" feature.  You can then add names to your "Edit Ignore" list.  Ensure the user name is exact, or that member will not appear on your "ignore" list.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Bee Farmer on March 31, 2019, 03:03:15 PM
Mate, don’t you get it..... most of us are divorced or have survived a long term failed relationship. We don’t want to hear your shit!!!

No, you don't get it.

This site is supposed to be about marriage.  It is entirely appropriate to point out things which help lead to a successful marriage, and things to avoid which lead to a failure of the marriage.

If you're divorced, and living your life in a way that makes divorce a high probability for a future relationship, then maybe marriage isn't for you.

You don't want to hear what I say?  Tough.  It doesn't change the message if you shoot the messenger.
You see, I understand that the anger you have for yourself, (for making bad decisions) you are transferring to me.  And you are transferring your anger towards religion at me.

You want to believe that the situation was out of your control, and you were powerless to do anything to change things.  You want to believe that no one else could have handled things any better than you did.  Because to admit that you were responsible, and to take full responsibility for everything that happened...that's a tough pill to swallow.  (Considering your unresolved issues, I would suggest that you don't even consider a relationship with anyone else until you get yourself straightened out first.)

Marriage affects other people, not just you.  Don't destroy others lives just because you want to be selfish and think only of yourself and what you want.

Quote
Maybe if it come from someone who had a good track record with women and was in a successful long term marriage, we could respect their point of view, but not someone who has never lived with a woman, let alone married one and to top it off most of us would avoid you like the plague in real life, due to your left field  religious views.

I had a 4.5 year relationship when I was younger.  Despite my many flaws, that woman still tells other people that I am the best guy she has ever known, and quietly admits the relationship falling apart was 100% her fault.  It's not uncommon for women to pursue me.  Most women I know have a very high opinion of me.

Birds of a feather do flock together.  But I suspect some folks on here might not hang out with me because I don't drink alcohol, and I'm not divorced, so I can't commiserate with them.  Folks that know me know I don't go to church, I have long hair, and even been known to say a few choice words from time to time.  You would be hard pressed to find people who regard me as religious.

Quote
Your making a fool of yourself and showing just how inexperienced you are when it comes to relationships.

And just how am I making a fool of myself?

I would argue that divorced people trying to give relationship advice make a fool of themselves.  If they wrote a book, the proper title would be something like, "How to fail at relationships for Dummies."

Quote
Wtf are you even doing on this site, to begin with???

I would like to find someone to spend the rest of my life with.
Locally, there are a limited number of women who have never been married, have no kids, and are physically fit in my age range.  These are all deal breakers for me.  I'm willing to entertain the possibility of finding a girl from the FSU who meets my list of criteria.  I've been to Ukraine before, and I think it is fairly likely I will visit Ukraine again at some point.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Boethius on March 31, 2019, 03:07:21 PM
I don't think Ukraine is the place for you, Bee.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: msmob on March 31, 2019, 03:47:45 PM
Sadly, Anon mod's kind advice only works until someone quotes BF ...((

Then - even if on ignore - one sees the scribes ..

BF might suggest this is how it should be ( divine intervention !? )

I sincerely, he doesn't end up married and his partner divorces him - against his wishes ...   Those of us still around can point out ." you can't be trusted" ....

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: tfcrew on March 31, 2019, 04:29:24 PM
  I don't go to church.
  Not absolutely necessary for salvation.
Quote

Would you lend money to someone who never pays people back, or who has filed bankruptcy?  You're asking for trouble if you do.
It's no difference getting involved with someone who is divorced.
Equals among the most absurd statements I have ever read in the 11 years I've been on this forum.
No links were provided in that ludicrous opening post...you got called on it...and then you get mad.
 
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: fathertime on March 31, 2019, 05:33:38 PM
Monogamy is pretty much a human universal.
I'm not sure why you think this is the case.  Regardless of the penis bone argument, monogamy is not a human universal. 



People who do not take marriage seriously end up suffering bad consequences, such as divorce, and kids being raised in single parent homes (those kids do not do as well), or even worse, kids being raised in homes with someone other than a natural parent, such as step-parents or mom/dad's boyfriend/girlfriend. (8 times the child abuse rates of kids with both biological parents.)

The evidence is quite clear that people who do not take marriage seriously suffer horrible consequences.
You consider divorce a bad consequence?  Many people consider it to be salvation when compared to a poor marriage.   Many children are absolutely fine with parents divorcing, and in many cases it is a better situation.   
The evidence is NOT 'quite clear' that people who aren't as serious about marriage as others suffer horrible consequences.  One of the worst consequences I think of is being stuck in a very bad marriage and wanted out but being forced to stay. 



 
Are they fulfilling their obligations, even if it is a horrible marriage?  If so, then they are honorable.  That's what honorable means.  That's the definition.

You're speculating.

People who don't have guts are cowards, and are the ones who pull out.  People with guts will keep trying to work through problems.

Then maybe you are blindly ignorant of what being honorable means?  If you don't keep your promises and obligations, then you have dishonored yourself.
Disagree, there can easily be a point where being divorced is better for all parties.  Many people stay in the marriage not out of honor/courage but out of fear.  So in those cases they are left as withering and unhappy men. With neither honor, happiness, or peace/love. 


Perhaps they are a 'loser,' but they still have the potential to be a winner.
Someone who is divorced is a bigger loser, and a failure.  Their only hope of not being a failure is to reconcile with their ex.

I'm going to have to disagree with your harsh criticism of divorced individuals. 
Individuals that are single at 40 are losers, and do not even have the potential to be winners.  They have failed and there is no redemption possible.  They should not travel to the FSU, South America Asia, or Africa.  They should be exiled to Antarctica and fed to whales for recycling purposes. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: JayH on March 31, 2019, 06:00:06 PM
I read the first few word of your reply to
me and realised it was just going to be the same BS.....

Where I come from we affectionately a Mate a C%*t and a C%*t a Mate ...... Mate!!! 👍

What he said !! :clapping: :clapping:
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: JayH on March 31, 2019, 06:03:05 PM
I don't think Ukraine is the place for you, Bee.



Yeah-- somewhere closer to home !
I saw some yokel  saying that girls should not be allowed to wear tights   as her 4 son's  would be out of control ! Sounds like Bee Fu..ker territory to me !
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: krimster2 on March 31, 2019, 06:05:54 PM
when beefarmer has "sexual problems"
he will end up with a solution in hand

Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: Boethius on March 31, 2019, 06:46:41 PM
Yeah-- somewhere closer to home !
I saw some yokel  saying that girls should not be allowed to wear tights   as her 4 son's  would be out of control ! Sounds like Bee Fu..ker territory to me !


In no way did I mean my comment as a knock on Bee Farmer.  I just meant that he won't find what he seeks in Ukraine.  He is far more likely to find it in the US.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: tfcrew on March 31, 2019, 08:42:33 PM
 
  I just meant that he won't find what he seeks in Ukraine.  He is far more likely to find it in the US.
   Being a realist..I would agree with the first line. However regarding the second...isn't likely either.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: tfcrew on March 31, 2019, 08:49:56 PM
You may have heard the expression that marriage is a 50-50 proposition. Don't believe it. If both are not willing to give give their 100% all..it may be doomed to failure.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: rwd123 on March 31, 2019, 11:16:36 PM
I don't think Ukraine is the place for you, Bee.
LOL. Same goes for Russia!

Some FSUW are monogomous but there are many that are not, even if they are married. A friend living in Russia describes Russian women as wild; he has three girlfriends, one who is married and been having affairs for the last seven years. Ukraine is not much different. If you know enough people you'll quickly understand how widespread infidelity and sexual promiscuity is in these countries.

This is important to understand, because you may meet a woman you think is a honey bee who is actually busy pollinating other plants.

BF - you still have zero trips? Get out in the real world. I've spent the past three weeks in Ukraine/Russia, and not to visit women. It's always interesting to get out of your comfort zone and expand your horizons. By a whim I decided to go to Saint Petersburg. I really had no interest in the city but went because it was raining in Sochi. I was pleasantly surprised and now have a direct understanding why people say the city is so beautiful. I never planned to go there but think I'll go back on my next trip.
Title: Re: Are you Marriage Material, or Divorce Material?
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2019, 02:07:33 AM
Sochi has had a crap winter...  SC hit the beach there for the first time yesterday..((