Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Married => Topic started by: monkey on February 08, 2019, 08:49:55 PM

Title: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on February 08, 2019, 08:49:55 PM
Could a local Ukr investigator verify if my young Canadian born son has ben issued a Ukr citizen document and travel passport.
Naturally the embassy in my country will not tell me.
Any investigators to recommend? Or other ideas..
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: BdHvA on February 08, 2019, 09:32:46 PM
Boethuis from Canada is a jurist and might be able to assist you further.

She will need to know more information such as where was your wife born in Ukraine.

Are you involved in a divorce proceeding?

There are other questions but you need to have answers to questions that will
arise in the first conversation.

Good luck



Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: BillyB on February 09, 2019, 09:39:02 AM
Could a local Ukr investigator verify if my young Canadian born son has ben issued a Ukr citizen document and travel passport.
Naturally the embassy in my country will not tell me.
Any investigators to recommend? Or other ideas..

The more important question may be "Does Canada and Ukraine have an agreement to return kids stolen by one spouse to the other? Write to the Canadian embassy in Ukraine and tell them what you suspect. I'm sure they've dealt with cases like this. If they don't have the answers, they may direct you in the right direction.

http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/ukraine/index.aspx?lang=eng
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Boethius on February 09, 2019, 12:14:55 PM
No, there is no way to find out.


If you are separated, ask your lawyer to make an application to have your wife's passports surrendered, on the suspicion she will flee to Ukraine with your child.  You will need to present some sort of proof, though. 

Ukraine is a signatory to numerous conventions on child abduction, but to enforce them you have to (a) know where the child is located; and (b) have the time and money to expend to enforce your rights.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on February 09, 2019, 12:17:50 PM

The more important question may be "Does Canada and Ukraine have an agreement to return kids stolen by one spouse to the other? Write to the Canadian embassy in Ukraine and tell them what you suspect.
There is no agreement between countries. Contacting the embassy in Kiev is on my list, thank you.

Boethuis from Canada is a jurist and might be able to assist you further.
She will need to know more information such as where was your wife born in Ukraine.
Are you involved in a divorce proceeding?
There are other questions but you need to have answers to questions that will
arise in the first conversation.
Good luck

Wife was born in Brovary.
There are no proceedings started at this time. I do not worry about that if it starts while our son is here. Abduction prior to anything is my fear. If this happens (which I am terrified of, and hope, pray, wish, want to believe that I am wrong, and somehow this is just a major rough patch. She has come right out and said she wants to return to Ukr to live.   

I understand how Ukraine functions and wonder who/how to contact the people who could verify the status info I seek.
Does anyone have knowledge of how Ukraine treats cases of spousal child abduction. Enough of us in this type of a relationship, this issue has must of come up with others.

Boethuis , I will message you after, need to go out now.
thanks!
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Boethius on February 09, 2019, 01:14:11 PM
There is no agreement between countries. Contacting the embassy in Kiev is on my list, thank you.
The agreement on child abduction is an international treaty - The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction.  Canada is a signatory to the Convention, as is Ukraine.  Russia is not.

I don't think the embassy will be of any help to you.

Were I a Ukrainian planning on returning with a young child, and if I researched this particular issue, I would move to Russia, where there is no treaty and, therefore, no worry of my child being returned to a foreign country without my consent.

This post was composed without the aid of google, save for confirming the full name of the applicable treaty.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on February 09, 2019, 01:57:48 PM
The agreement on child abduction is an international treaty - The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction.  Canada is a signatory to the Convention, as is Ukraine.  Russia is not.
Hi Boethius,
When i called both the consulate in Toronto and the Ukraine embassy in Ottawa, both said Ukraine is NOT a member of the Hague Convention.  :cluebat:
The embassy consul went so far as to tell me that if my son gets to Ukraine, they would view him as a UA citizen and ignore any requests from my Country. And he mentioned this has happened a few times.
Edit here: It is possible that Ukraine would not view this as an abduction because there is no court order barring my child travel. So maybe this falls outside the realm of Hague. I dunno.
Google says UA is in the Hague. UA embassy here told me no. WTF!

I know I can get a temporary no removal order on my son and ensure he remains here but first I would have to start separation proceedings against my wife. Maybe/possibly delusional and hopeful this will not happen, I don't want too or am not ready to pull the plug on my marriage and maybe see if it can be saved ie: Talking/counselling/better communication) or it could be too late.

In another 1-2 months she will obtain Canadian citizenship also, hence dual UA and CA .

Thanks for your message!
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Boethius on February 09, 2019, 02:17:45 PM
Ukraine is a signatory.  Don't google it, go to the convention.  It lists all the signatories.



This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: krimster2 on February 09, 2019, 02:22:39 PM
couldn't you get some kind of restraining order, have the court hold your son's passport, etc...
in other words, assume the worse, then what?
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: BdHvA on February 09, 2019, 02:59:21 PM
Monkey, I would try to repair and restore the trust between your wife and your self.

If the relationship has 100% broken down than prepare for a war.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on February 09, 2019, 06:13:19 PM
couldn't you get some kind of restraining order, have the court hold your son's passport, etc...
in other words, assume the worse, then what?
Yes, that is the first step, if I separate. here it is a temporary custody order until child custody arrangements are finalized.

Ukraine is a signatory.  Don't google it, go to the convention.  It lists all the signatories.
I see that, thank you.

Were I a Ukrainian planning on returning with a young child, and if I researched this particular issue, I would move to Russia, where there is no treaty and, therefore, no worry of my child being returned to a foreign country without my consent.

Boethius, that is a huge WOW! Of course she has friends and also an aunt there. Russia will allow her to live there and would not provide any assistance to Canada in finding her ? Or my child? Is this the checkmate way for her?

Monkey, I would try to repair and restore the trust between your wife and your self.

I hear you and agree. I am waiting on our first marriage counsellor appointment, though I wonder if it is too little, too late. There are two sides to a story and I also played a part in where we are today. A large part of my frustration is dealing with my spouses out of control and undiagnosed (refuses to acknowledge a problem) OCD. I saw it and accepted it in a milder form before childbirth, however the obsessiveness has gone way overboard since, and has invariably started many disagreements.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: krimster2 on February 09, 2019, 06:26:25 PM
dewd, all Ukrainian women are OCD!!!!!  slovo!!
dealing with it is an "art form" that I could write a book about!!
get her a prescription for Zoloft (but Ukrainian OCDers don't like pills)
will COMPLETELY change her behavior after a month or so but they lose their sex drive which is why I don't want Mrs Krimster taking it
so I learned how to live with her OCD, even how to take advantage of it!!!!
I have experienced the zoloft transformation in past girl friends
half the women over 30 in California take anti-depressants

haven't you ever taken a depressed person and cheered them up
this is how you manage your wife and NOT join in the fighting

are you the biological father of the child
if she can get the child to Russia then game over
but she has to have a passport to do that

gotta tell ya a secret regarding Ukrainian women
NEVER, NEVER fight or argue with them, I never do!!!
pointless to really

if it's a money issue, before my wife started her own business I give my wife her own bank account and CC
if she spent all her monthly budget, she'd patiently wait to the next month without haranguing me for money
this is the peaceful way to do it, also I know my wife's big ticket desires, and I ALWAYS do the getting and not her (only my daughters do that)
so she figures ways to put me in a "spending mood" (that's REAL easy for her to do!)

there's an old saying "it takes two to tango"
so when your wife's gyrating to the hormonal tango you should "sit it out" and wait for the storm to die down
learn to adapt



Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on February 09, 2019, 07:35:03 PM
Thanks for the laugh Krimster2. Obsessive germaphobe here. Not getting into a long rant about it but I had to hug my son tonight before his bedtime bath. I was previously admonished for doing so after a bath, resulting in a second bath needed. This is just a small sample. Multiply times 500 is my daily life.

Boethius, having looked more closely at the Hague website, I concur with what the Embassy of Ukraine in Ottawa previously told me, Ukraine is not a signatory to the 1980 Child Abduction Convention.

The Hague is an umbrella of different international laws.
See Countries here: http://www.hcch.net/en/states/hcch-members
Each country has a list of which international agreements they have agreed to enforce.

Click on a country to see which treaties they have signed on and look for: •Convention of 25 October 1980 on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction [28] .
Ukraine has NOT signed this article, though they have signed other agreements. Compare to any countries of your choice.
Ukraine is a safe haven! EDIT TO:  MAYBE I MIS-SPOKE. JUST LOOKED AT UKRAINE AGAIN AND THEY LIST IT. SORRY LOL

From the child abduction page:
Please note that the Permanent Bureau of the Hague Conference has no mandate to assist in individual abduction cases! If you have a question relating to international child abduction and your country is a Party to the 1980 Child Abduction Convention, please contact the Central Authority designated by your country.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: krimster2 on February 09, 2019, 07:46:28 PM
"Thanks for the laugh Krimster2. Obsessive germaphobe here. Not getting into a long rant about it but I had to hug my son tonight before his bedtime bath. I was previously admonished for doing so after a bath, resulting in a second bath needed. This is just a small sample. Multiply times 500 is my daily life. "

ohhh, that's bad
had a girl friend in california like that!!!
whenever we left her apartment, she'd take 10 steps and have to turn around and check if she locked the door... every single time, even if I told her, "yes" you locked the door!
Zoloft completely changed that, but it also changed our love life
suggest you read about it, look online how to deal with a depressed spouse (depression/ocd are twins)
whatever advice is given, combining your anger to your wife's anger would be the worse thing to do!
I understand as do most married men, the kind of problem you're dealing with!
harder dealing with this issue with a UW because of cultural and language issues
does your wife appreciate that her behavior isn't normal, or does she believe that it is?
also secondary factors like poor sleep, stress, etc are factors that influence it






Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on February 09, 2019, 08:03:36 PM
does your wife appreciate that her behavior isn't normal, or does she believe that it is?
also secondary factors like poor sleep, stress, etc are factors

Unfortunately she tries to hide it. Friends have called her out a few times when she said or did something that seemed whacky. She never told me, they did. The only factor is our first child. She is way way overboard about everything.
I try to be supportive, I don't succeed all the time...
I guess ultimately I have two choices, wait out the probable abduction or split..
Goodnight.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: krimster2 on February 09, 2019, 08:46:18 PM
it sucks when the love of your child becomes a pain in your heart
there but for the grace of god, could go any or all of us...

is there some other problem going on here as well with your wife?
not prying, just an observation of Ukrainian women
world's worse communicators
if they're depressed about missing home/family/culture they won't talk about it
it's up to you to figure it out
i'm so damned good at interpreting my wife's emotions that SHE ASKS ME how she feels in the morning!
and I reply, "I dunno bitch, make me breakfast" (haha, no I don't!!!, just kiddin, see made ya laugh!)
so these "other factors" if you can relate to what I'm talking about, (just stuff that makes her unhappy) is there something you can do to improve that for her?
does she have a lot of "anxiety" about life in general
did she come from a 'difficult' background
those kinda people have to be handled in a special way
takes a strong man to do it,...

BTW, I grew up with my Ukrainian born baboshka, my father's mother was born in Nezhin Ukraine
she was a germ phobe as well
she also lost 3 of her children to sickness in Ukraine
it made her interesting but wacky
there may be a cause and effect with your wife as well
it takes someone with an immense heart, compassion and understanding to deal with this
and hope, don't forget about hope
forgive this poor excuse of a messenger, but hope my words give you courage
now go and fight this thing, all of life is but a struggle
most men simply struggle with themselves
if you want to find the princess you must first slay the dragon






 
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: BillyB on February 09, 2019, 09:40:07 PM

You're not the first person to deal with potential child abduction from a spouse. The Canadian embassy in Ukraine has certainly dealt with it. After talking with someone with experience in this working at the embassy, come back and let us know what they can and can't do for you if your child is taken to Ukraine without your permission.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: rwd123 on February 10, 2019, 12:53:41 AM
To my knowledge to obtain any FSU travel documents or government identity documents for minors abroad (visas, passports, inserts to parents' passports, birth certificates, renunciation, etc.) it is required that BOTH parents request/consent in writing. So it's less likely/unlikely she'll obtain a Ukrainian passport if your son is a Canadian citizen (unless she forges your signature).

However, we are talking Ukraine so money and connections means laws are nothing.

Your best bet is to try and salvage the relationship, or at a minimum convince her to stay in Canada. She may suffer/suffered from post-natal depression or similar malady. Without her acknowledging the need for professional help you're pretty much screwed.

If that fails you'll need to obtain a court order prohibiting travel. That requires legal advice, not forum advice.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on February 17, 2019, 06:12:20 PM
is there some other problem going on here as well with your wife?
not prying, just an observation of Ukrainian women
world's worse communicators
if they're depressed about missing home/family/culture they won't talk about it
it's up to you to figure it out
does she have a lot of "anxiety" about life in general
did she come from a 'difficult' background

BTW, I grew up with my Ukrainian born baboshka, my father's mother was born in Nezhin Ukraine
she was a germ phobe as well
she also lost 3 of her children to sickness in Ukraine
it made her interesting but wacky
there may be a cause and effect with your wife as well
it takes someone with an immense heart, compassion and understanding to deal with this
and hope, don't forget about hope

I have no idea if anything is going on with my wife. But yeah, she hates to communicate what I am supposed to logically know what she wants of me without her saying. I tell her I ain't no Kreskin but that just gets a blank stare.
Tried steering her in a direction of personal counselling, that was met with fire and fury.
Her family seem to be very, very normal. I have had limited success in getting their help though; Language, culture( I really think FSU peeps view anything other then physical ailments as a sign of weakness), and lastly blood is blood.
Thanks Krimster2

You're not the first person to deal with potential child abduction from a spouse. The Canadian embassy in Ukraine has certainly dealt with it. After talking with someone with experience in this working at the embassy, come back and let us know what they can and can't do for you if your child is taken to Ukraine without your permission.

I was able to call our Embassy. I explained the reason for my call and asked to speak with consul. The Ukr receptionist said U needed to send an email. WTH. Ok I did. Not detailed but a rough outline of my concerns. On the maybe good side, the embassy forwarded my email to Global Affairs Canada. This is our federal agency which deals with these types of things. They have now opened a case file for me and assigned a case manager. Far from breaking out the party hat, I expect a lot of bad news when I call this week. However, I know this is the highest I can go and at least get the true answers to my zillion questions. From what I have read, this is the only department which can put in a request for the Ukr State Department to notify if a Ukr passport is requested for my son. 

Part 2 is speak again to a lawyer.

Part 3 is to hopefully solely focus on my relationship, knowing I have some sort of action plan if needed.
Wow. this sucks !

To my knowledge to obtain any FSU travel documents or government identity documents for minors abroad (visas, passports, inserts to parents' passports, birth certificates, renunciation, etc.) it is required that BOTH parents request/consent in writing. So it's less likely/unlikely she'll obtain a Ukrainian passport if your son is a Canadian citizen (unless she forges your signature).
Quote
Hi rwd123, you're partially correct, unfortunately.
If both parents are Ukrainian citizens, then both parents must must sign/consent. However, where a single parent is a Ukr. citizen, only that parent is required to consent. A citizen document and a passport are not only granted if they are requested, but me as a non-citizen has no right to ask if this has happened. Fun eh!

Many western countries, usa and canada included, do not have exit controls at our borders ( those leaving). That creates a whole new hurdle in safeguarding children.

Quote
Your best bet is to try and salvage the relationship, or at a minimum convince her to stay in Canada. She may suffer/suffered from post-natal depression or similar malady. Without her acknowledging the need for professional help you're pretty much screwed.
If that fails you'll need to obtain a court order prohibiting travel. That requires legal advice, not forum advice.
I tend to agree with everything there. But just don't know....preparing for the worst also.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: southernX on February 17, 2019, 06:28:39 PM
monkey how old is your son ??

i think your on the right path , and for what its worth the ukrainian embassy ime are not reliable , it can be hit and miss with how they extend their help to you , in canberra here they are hard and difficult mostly , in st petes and paris i found them to be good and helpful

krimster is on the money with his thoughts

prepare for war imo ,while working on repairing the damage  to save your marriage 
do not show your hand unless you actually must before you need to use it

SX
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: krimster2 on February 17, 2019, 06:33:09 PM
"krimster is on the money with his thoughts "

yeah, that Krimster is a pretty sharp guy!!
wait!! I'm Krimster! (blush!)
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 18, 2019, 12:31:35 PM
Monkey I have been where you are exactly the same scenario and I made most of the classic mistakes you are making and eventually ended up divorced on the plus side because I remained a rock my ex eventually moved to live 500 meters from me.  Ok you know the worst case scenarios now put them to the back of your mind.  You will only get out of this situation if you alpha up.  Firstly your wife is acting up because she feels unsupported in some way.  Next realise in the eyes of the law you are nothing more than a sperm donor so any progress upwards from that level is progress.  Divorce and lawyers cost money so now if you don't fight you have at least 100000us dollars to spend on your wife's happiness.  First forget marriage counselling speaking out loud to a third party about your problems 'reinforces the problems just by verbalising them the alpha male your wife wants does not need some do gooder meddling in your marriage he would sort it out himself.  Next support your wife ask what she needs if it's a 2 week holiday to the Ukraine so be it you have a 100000$ us holiday fund.  If she wants to leave assist her in doing so .  Watch monty Roberts the horse whisperer  or read his autobiography that's how to keep a woman.  Just enjoy your wife and child the more you try to hold on to them the more likely you lose them.  All of you should stay well away from any anti depresents they are mind altering and the out come is fairly random.  Just be the man a woman would want to stay with and that's definetly alpha.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 18, 2019, 12:42:56 PM
If your wife wants to go back to the Ukraine instead of fighting her start planning to move with her.  You could rent out your Canadian property give up your job and try living in Ukraine or you could sell and move.  Get excited by the prospect of moving to Ukraine get your wife to manage the project.   Maybe she will move your family to Ukraine or maybe she will give up trying because of the work load.  I thought marriage was a partnership not you dominating your wife to stay in Canada.  Do you love your wife and would go to the ends of the earth for her or is she a domestic appliance.  It's Ukraine not the ends of the earth.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 18, 2019, 12:49:11 PM
Have you ever thought your wife's OCD is about having some level of influence in her life.  A  life where she feels unloved and misunderstood.  Would you rather have a fat usa wife eating food and sitting on the sofa all day or a Ukrainian neat freak.  Life is random you have to roll with the punches
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Boethius on February 18, 2019, 02:50:14 PM
Firstly your wife is acting up because she feels unsupported in some way. 

Or she has a mental illness.

Really?  A parent can't touch a child because he's been bathed?  Do you find that in the least normal?

Quote
Next realise in the eyes of the law you are nothing more than a sperm donor so any progress upwards from that level is progress.  Divorce and lawyers cost money so now if you don't fight you have at least 100000us dollars to spend on your wife's happiness.  First forget marriage counselling speaking out loud to a third party about your problems 'reinforces the problems just by verbalising them the alpha male your wife wants does not need some do gooder meddling in your marriage he would sort it out himself. 

That is untrue in Canada.  The starting point is joint custody.  monkey likely would have to pay his wife child support, and amounts are established by the Divorce Act (Canada).  She would receive alimony for a period, to give her time to train for a job, but that is typically very short term.  Is it worse than an intact family?  Of course.  However, your characterization of divorce law is not accurate.

Family counselling is not a "do gooder meddling in your marriage".  Counselling is so that each party can hear the perspectives of someone neutral who can point out each party's intractability.  I don't know if counselling will help, as both parties must be willing to give it a go (i.e., be open to counselling), but it can help.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Boethius on February 18, 2019, 02:53:39 PM
If your wife wants to go back to the Ukraine instead of fighting her start planning to move with her.  You could rent out your Canadian property give up your job and try living in Ukraine or you could sell and move.  Get excited by the prospect of moving to Ukraine get your wife to manage the project.   Maybe she will move your family to Ukraine or maybe she will give up trying because of the work load.  I thought marriage was a partnership not you dominating your wife to stay in Canada.  Do you love your wife and would go to the ends of the earth for her or is she a domestic appliance.  It's Ukraine not the ends of the earth.


Are you kidding?  Ukrainians are coming here in droves, because life in Ukraine is a dead end.  Why would you subject your child to this?  Why give up life, and presumably, a job that affords you a middle class lifestyle to go to a country with an average annual income of less than US$5,000?   


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 18, 2019, 04:15:48 PM
You would move to Ukraine simply because your wife wanted to .  Nothing like a reality check.   Although I suspect she is communicating with an old male friend in the Ukraine.   Women don't usually  leave a relationship without a plan and support.  I don't know about Canada but I could definitely live a better quality of life renting my house  out in London and moving to a Minsk high quality dacha .  There are plenty  of good private schools in Ukraine for $100 a month.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 18, 2019, 04:23:44 PM
I can't comment on Canada but I could definetly understand a Ukrainian wanting to go home after sampling UK culture.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Boethius on February 18, 2019, 04:32:12 PM
Most women moving back to Ukraine from the West (very rare, BTW, precisely because of the difference in lifestyle) move back to parents, not a man waiting in the wings.  In Ukraine, still, most men don't want to raise another man's child.

If you are retired, moving may work, but raising children in Ukraine is no picnic.  If you are under 60, you are giving up all pension years to live on passive income, with its attendant problems (tenants destroying your property, for one), excellent free healthcare, excellent dental care, prescriptions you know are not adulterated, a country with the rule of law and relatively corruption free, the list goes on. 

My MIL always says to the better half "You can't imagine what is going on here.  I am so happy you were able to move somewhere where you can live a normal life."

Things may be different in Belarus, it was always far less corrupt than Ukraine, partly because of its history. 

As for Canada, most Ukrainians get homesick at some point, but I know a lot of Ukrainians from Ukraine, and not one has returned voluntarily. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.



Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 18, 2019, 04:57:15 PM
A friend of mine had a restaurant his parents built up the business and gave it to him.   Along came a Hungarian waitress who he married and had two sons with.  After five years of marriage she wanted to go back to Hungary to a former lover.  My friends ex wife now lives in an apartment with her hungarain man and my friends 2 kids who now speak no English.  Her parents now live in an apartment in the same block.  My friend had to sell the restaurant to give his ex wife half the capital in the business.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Boethius on February 18, 2019, 05:01:39 PM
That's the UK, I assume.  In Canada, assets acquired before marriage are exempt from matrimonial property division.  If there is a prenuptial agreement, the increase in value during marriage also is exempt.  If there is no prenup, then the increase in value during the marriage is split 50/50, but the starting date for valuation is the date of marriage.

In my province, a home owned by one partner before marriage, even if a matrimonial home, is exempt from matrimonial division, although absent a prenup, the increase in value during marriage is split 50/50.  That is different in other provinces.  In Ontario, for example, the matrimonial home is split 50/50, regardless of when it was acquired.

Hungary is not Ukraine.  Their attitudes are different, their way of life is different.  The country most like Ukraine in terms of attitudes and way of life is Russia.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on February 18, 2019, 09:55:52 PM
monkey how old is your son ??
SX
Almost 2   :)
Monkey I have been where you are exactly the same scenario and I made most of the classic mistakes you are making and eventually ended up divorced on the plus side because I remained a rock my ex eventually moved to live 500 meters from me.  Ok you know the worst case scenarios now put them to the back of your mind.  You will only get out of this situation if you alpha up.  Firstly your wife is acting up because she feels unsupported in some way. 
I don't want to be an Alpha. I just want to be me. Her reasons for acting up, I have no idea why. Don't care to online diagnose it, nothing against you I just have enough on my plate.
If your wife wants to go back to the Ukraine instead of fighting her start planning to move with her.  Do you love your wife and would go to the ends of the earth for her or is she a domestic appliance.  It's Ukraine not the ends of the earth.

We have different views James and both of us can be right. If not for my son, I would move in a heartbeat, I believe for my child a better future is in Canada, at least for now.
Thanks for the input James!
If you are retired, moving may work, but raising children in Ukraine is no picnic.  If you are under 60, you are giving up all pension years to live on passive income, with its attendant problems (tenants destroying your property, for one), excellent free healthcare, excellent dental care, prescriptions you know are not adulterated, a country with the rule of law and relatively corruption free, the list goes on. 
My MIL always says to the better half "You can't imagine what is going on here.  I am so happy you were able to move somewhere where you can live a normal life."
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Right or wrong, my thinking too!
TYVM Boethius

This thinking leads into my next post to follow...
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on February 18, 2019, 09:56:34 PM

I just want to start off with a thanks for all your time and heartfelt comments.
Serious domestic marriage problems could be exponentially problematic in an international marriage. I regret when  I started this journey, I didn't consider the possible implications of parenting international children.  My advice: Have the raising our child talk before saying 'I do'. Get on the same page about child rearing and expectations.

Here is a new little wrinkle in my wife's character. Yes, there is out of control obsessiveness. But also there is a control freak obsession over our son.
I am not allowed to do anything.
My opinion counts for nothing.

So continuing on from Boethius's last post from above, I am also perplexed by my spouses 'desire' to return with our son to live in Ukraine.

This makes no sense....
She offered to go to a lawyer and sign off a 300k+ (napkin math) settlement if I give up parental rights to allow to move.
But she really wants (and time is getting close) to receive Canadian citizenship.
Read that 3 times please. I know krimster2 only read it once, he's a busy guy )

And this woman is smart and cunning. Does that scare you? It scares me! Ukraine is a country where you eat or get eaten.

I have spoken with a gentleman at CBSA (Canada Border Services Agency) named M. M told me our Canadian passport is the third most valued passport.

The last fact in this post is I know beyond any doubt she does not want me to have any part of custody. No way, no how. This alone I believe could incite abduction.
I have generously been offered; unlimited skype bonding time with my son, visit him in ukraine whenever, supervised access for a few hours at a time.

Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 18, 2019, 10:52:09 PM
Well you have 2 choices fight or bend.  It seems like you are already fighting with everyone your soon  to be ex . Myself  and you are already going down the lawyers route as you are already having war like discussions with your wife.  So now my advice is talk to friends about which lawyers gave the best service and value for money and the best outcomes.  From my experience an ocd woman will only bow to recognised authority so everything will be sorted via the official agencies until your child is 18 with many 're tests of the authorities powers.  So actually how your life In relation to your child will be will be what the agencies decide .  So time to man up stop waling and walk the path my friend.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 18, 2019, 10:57:20 PM
A cunning woman as you quote will say many things to your face.  It's what's written down by her lawyers and the agencies that counts.  So best to stop listening to this and pay a good lawyer.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: krimster2 on February 19, 2019, 07:58:46 AM
the more details you provide of your plight the less hope I feel for you...
IMHO, the only possibility for you to salvage your marriage is for her to get Zoloft and wait a month...

i’m 100% certain she will not accept this...

but there is some missing information
her desire to return home, only makes sense if she feels her life with you is a failure...
this I don’t understand...
most Russian women are SO FREAKIN HAPPY to be living outside of Russia
my wife’s last visit to her family this past summer was so disappointing for her, that has lost all desire to ever return...

that’s why THIS is a pretty major issue...
what’s driving this?  the conflict with you, or something else, like she can’t handle all the changes necessary for her to live in your culture?  or both?  or something else?
but this issue whatever it is, is the catalyst for promoting her “symptoms”
or maybe, she had this EXACT ISSUE in Russia and thought she could solve it by moving to your country

then there’s you...
I saw your sarcasm about “amazing Kreskin”, that was a big fail on your part
never use sarcasm with a Russian
never use sarcasm with a person who has mental health issues
and NEVER NEVER use sarcasm on a Russian woman who has mental health issues
OK!!!!
seriously, this culture is one of the worse for communicating
so you have to dig to find the answers, so I’d go get a shovel if I were you
vodka is a useful tool for loosening Russian tongues...

I’ve never been in your situation, I’m sure if it wasn’t for your son, the two of you would have split long ago....

I’m sure you must feel the temptation to just let him go with her
when it would be in YOUR best interest, but certainly not your son’s
and that's probably tormenting you

Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on February 19, 2019, 07:28:19 PM
I’m sure you must feel the temptation to just let him go with her
when it would be in YOUR best interest, but certainly not your son’s
and that's probably tormenting you
You are right.

dont have a lot of time now but:
Kreskin comment was just a joke for this board. never happened.
Wife has declared she is not going for citizenship test and interview tomorrow. The last step!

Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 19, 2019, 08:26:34 PM
Maybe you have found one of the problems OCD women are perfectionists they do not like to fail and so would rather not turn up for exams where they might fail.  I lived alongside an ocd woman and still do for 20 years.  Sadly OCD women do their male partners no good as you end up feeling not good enough.  You may find out you were part of a lifestyle plan rather than truly loved.  Also OCD women definetly think of children as lifestyle possessions rather than humans and as your son gets older his imperfections as in normality will annoy her so you certainly have a role to play in his life to show him normal life rather than her OCD lifestyle.  Strangely the more you try to influence ocd women the more they defy you there really is no winning.  Although the court systems in Canada do sound much more fair than uk
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: Boethius on February 21, 2019, 12:25:49 AM
If she is that adamant, I agree with James, go see a lawyer quietly.  Clean out joint accounts to minimum levels.  Go to one who specializes in high conflict custody disputes.  You may not divorce, but you should see someone sooner, rather than later.  You may not have a dispute if you divorce, but having the option to respond with someone who deals with high conflict divorces is always better.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: BdHvA on February 21, 2019, 05:08:22 PM
As others have noted I fear this will end up in front of a judge. I cannot comment on Canadian law but I suspect you have an uphill battle before you. There is good advice that has been posted.

Starting with this thread, I would keep a diary. In 15 pr so years you will have something to give your son that will speak more clearly than hours of words.

Sometimes you must let go so that you can hold onto the big prize.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: msmob on February 22, 2019, 05:53:56 AM
Hi Monkey

Sorry things appear to be going pear-shaped

My right to contact was fought 17 years ago and in one country - although I was resident in another country and came back for visits and Court hearings and even to be assessed by Family Court appointed Psychiatrists


I 'won' all contact Family Court hearings, but they were pyrrhic victories as the mother of my kids just ignored the rulings - missed agreed contact

My daughters wouldn't read the Court findings when they achieved majority - choosing to believe their Mum's 'version'....

Can YOU start off by trying / suggesting arbitration in Canada ?

It SEEMS like your partner may be seeking her cake and trying to eat it

Good luck
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on June 24, 2019, 01:41:05 AM
hey gang,
past few months have been up and down with lots of drama.
I have succumbed for our family to visit ukraine. Leaving later today. I have no idea how this will go.
Wife is packing her suitcase now as I type. Had a huge argument couple hours ago when I commented that all she is packing are gifts and there will be no room for clothes (honestly!). She actually made me go sit in my basement computer room while she packed. Said it was or I was causing her stress.
That makes no sense to me !
I fear I am walking into a snake pit and I have no real world support. Only a forum. Will keep you informed. If Bo or someone else who speaks russian can inbox me their viber number, I could sure use the help with any russian documents that get  thrown my way to sign while there. I could be signing my way out of child custody without knowing it.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: msmob on June 24, 2019, 05:41:23 AM
Did you sign the docs, already ?   Without knowing what they mean ? !

You can take photos of them and google will translate them - as a start ..

IF your lady was intending not to come back - surely she'd be packing clothes - not gifts ... Gifts imply she is being thoughtful to those back home ..?
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: SteveInBoston on June 24, 2019, 06:34:30 AM
No notary or lawyer can accept any document you sign that is not bilingual, or without a certified translator present.  Not 100% - someone can be bribed to look the other way, I guess.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: BillyB on June 24, 2019, 08:12:28 AM
hey gang,
past few months have been up and down with lots of drama.
I have succumbed for our family to visit ukraine. Leaving later today. I have no idea how this will go.
Wife is packing her suitcase now as I type. Had a huge argument couple hours ago when I commented that all she is packing are gifts and there will be no room for clothes (honestly!). She actually made me go sit in my basement computer room while she packed. Said it was or I was causing her stress.
That makes no sense to me !
I fear I am walking into a snake pit and I have no real world support. Only a forum. Will keep you informed. If Bo or someone else who speaks russian can inbox me their viber number, I could sure use the help with any russian documents that get  thrown my way to sign while there. I could be signing my way out of child custody without knowing it.

It's been 4 1/2 months since  you started this thread. I assume your wife got her Canadian citizenship.

I see a problem in you that is a major turn off for women. You have agreed to let your wife and kid go to Ukraine but you're still acting paranoid that you're going to lose your child. Paranoya will destroya. Quit worrying until you have somehting to worry about. Give your wife a big hug and tell her to enjoy her time there.

Based on your posts here, your wife doesn't respect you and doesn't value your opinion on how to raise your son. I don't know if you're going to lose your son but I think your marriage will end eventually. A woman can't love you if she doesn't respect you. You need to figure out how to get that respect.

I wouldn't want to be in your shoes but if I were in your shoes married to a woman who doesn't respect me, I'd make the first move to divorce telling her she needs to find a man she can respect.

You need to find a woman that respects you. Life is too short to live with a person who constantly disrespects you. It's an unhealthy situation for both of you and your child to constantly watch this while growing up.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on June 25, 2019, 07:42:42 PM
I wrote a long detailed post. Posted but wifi stopped. .. fff.
Am going on little sleep in 2 days.
Wrote tons before but important to me was i realized as i wrote this.... wife spent $1200 on useless gifts. 300 was at airport !  I realized now she may want to show her intention to return to canada.
I am really snookered. I only want to so right. I was confident and smart. Now sound crazy.
Wifes Mon has been dying since 2016. I gave 10k for brain tumor opp.
Now dying again of evasive illness.  Many things wrong...
This could be excuse for wife to stay after 5 week stay. Why she insisted on 5 weeks?
Her goal i was told, tru or not, was cdn citizenship  done...  divorce and get my $$.
Much more was lost last post try.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on June 25, 2019, 07:46:52 PM
She insisted on bringing birth cert of son and our certified copy of marr cert. That church needs for baptism approval.
I do i leave ukr now without my son  ? 
She has me on child care. She has controlled all since day 1. I ffffed thT too.
Finlaw at bankomat stood behind me trying ro see PIN. i told him ro turn around...
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on June 25, 2019, 07:59:21 PM
J mom gave her a tee shirt with "bad girl' written on it. And it had a pair of handcuffs broken open. Like the girl escaped.

I asked j after if she will be a bad girl. J said she already is a bad girl.
WTF. never heard thT talk..

Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: BillyB on June 25, 2019, 09:15:14 PM
I wrote a long detailed post. Posted but wifi stopped. .. fff.


Copy everything before hitting the "post" button so if things get lost, you will be able to paste what you copied when wifi or internet is back up. But if you reset the computer, you will lose what you copied.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: monkey on June 25, 2019, 09:20:45 PM
And she packed the portable hard drive with 16K pics of our boy with her. At that point i cancelled the trip a night before leaving. I was panicked bout all of it. But no one to talk too so i relented.
Why bring 16K of pics home. She could viber any she wanted. I dont deserve  it when so bloody dumb......
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: southernX on June 25, 2019, 11:24:03 PM
reading the last few posts monkey , im now wondering who has the mental health problem ?

your posts read as  awfully paranoid ?

gifts are part of the travel back home , lots of them , and ime , a wife will often not pack wisely or practically , especially if she is not a seasoned traveller by air etc

kids are the focal point for most fsu women and familys, they hold them dearly as the most important thing and will ime make different priorities on how they are treated compared to the local ''norm ''

example , my wife on arrival to australia wanted to sit in the back seat of the car and put her son in the front passengar seat ..she felt he should have the better view and access to radio /heater, more comfy position , i stopped this immediatly

you talk about her not letting you hug or touch your son after his bath , but you did not say how you where dressed or your state of cleanliness at the time ??

knowing my wife she frowns on me entering the house in yard or work clothes , and expects me to shower and be clean once finished work  and inside for the day , this is a fundamental , and may  apear OCD if your level of behaviour or hygiene is less or more relaxed as it is for many houselholds and men , especially if they have lived on their own for a time

kids under their mums control are kept clean and there are lots of odd somewhat paranoid ideas they will follow that we dont , dont drink cold water, dont have ice in drinks ,, discard orthodox medicnes , but use old home remedies etc etc .. excluding others which again look odd to us

i would not be signing any papers if you go to ukraine with her , you have no need too , so just dont ,

the holiday may well have done you all good , and you imo should open up to it positivly until you have a rock hard reason of fact , to prove other wise

at present your writing is coming across as negative , paranoid and unstable imo

that might be a reaction to your current living conditions , but either way , you must steady up and make decisons based on fact, not suspicion ,

you need to provide her and the child with stability and security , no woman will stay usually if thats not evident in her male partner , she can get plenty of that in ukraine



you cant be constantly reactive to her , you must be the rock and make your own well thought out choices  whatever they may be long term and then hold to them

have you considered how she may be percieving your behaviour ??  often humans start putting their defenses up due to percieved  minor problems and they then quickly escalate into major ones , and spiral out of control

it strikes me you may be the author of your own problems here to a large degree ,

keep us all posted on how it goes

SX
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: krimster2 on June 26, 2019, 10:51:12 AM
my man,

your question comes down to, “should I stay or should I go”
and you don’t want to face this question
because it makes you uncomfortable,
the same way your Russian wife makes you uncomfortable...
my question to guys like you:
how did you EVER THINK a guy like you was going to handle a Russian woman?

seriously?

all you laid back passive types are NOT gonna fare well with a Russian woman...
you and others like you on this board are proof of that...

you gotta know how to treat a Russian woman!!
and being passive is not the FREAKING way!!!!

SEX
you MUST totally dominate her sexually!!!
she has to have frequent orgasms that are based on her “fantasies”
so you have to know what these are
and use it to create a state of arousal in her
then...
you satisfy her...

Domestic
Help Out, do all dirty and heavy tasks
be as neat as possible
dress nicely, wear her favorite cologne
be "Mr Fixit" anything breaks in your house, fix it immediately using only your Swiss Army Knife
wife will be in awe

Money
Find out all the things your wife wants, and get them for her, no matter the price
and make sure she understands this all came to her straight “from your heart”
if it’s a surprise, even better

the more money you make, the happier your wife will be, so make it rain down “he-ah”
I say lord, make it rain down “he-ah”
amen! AMEN!

Russkies all have PTSD!!!
so you have to be a shock absorber, otherwise Russian Nitroglycerin goes “BOOM”
then you have PTSD to!!!!
so keep all upset and “negative vibes” away from your Russian wife for at LEAST the first 5 years
while she learns to adjust to her new life...
otherwise....
KABOOM!!!

Travel
If you’re lucky enough to be self-employed like I am, and can set your own schedule
then schedule 4 weeks of travel time each summer and go somewhere together that’s “romantic”

Build A Nest
Nothing makes a Russian woman feel all warm and cozy like buying a new house and for her to start furnishing it
suddenly she is transformed into a little girl playing in a giant doll house

and then followed by more sex.....

all I can tell you guys is that this has TOTALLY worked for me....
and as a result I have a low stress marriage to a Russian woman..






bottom line, I think passive types should stick with Asian women...
but NOT Central Asia like Kazakhstan, etc or Russian Far East
those women are TEN TIMES CRAZIER than Russian women!!!!!
 




 
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: ML on June 26, 2019, 11:29:59 AM
Build A Nest
Nothing makes a Russian woman feel all warm and cozy like buying a new house and for her to start furnishing it
suddenly she is transformed into a little girl playing in a giant doll house

and then followed by more sex.....

Actually a married couple planning and building a new house often leads to divorce.

Reason being it is very stressful.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: krimster2 on June 26, 2019, 12:30:37 PM
"Actually a married couple planning and building a new house often leads to divorce.
Reason being it is very stressful."


that's something that would be really hard for me to understand...
maybe I'm different from most people
I'm really happy to just let my wife have her preferences in our happy little cottage
my whole focus is on keepin her happy
and THAT'S what makes me happy
I don't care if the dining table is oak or some other material...
but making that choice is what makes my wife happy...

read The Gift of the Magi
to understand the nature of "sacrificial love"

if you do this...
Russian women eat this up like CRAZY!!!!
they will be like cute little puppies eating dog food out of your hand and licking your finger...
WORD!!
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: ML on June 26, 2019, 12:40:37 PM
Doesn't matter if wife makes all the decisions about new house construction and furnishment or husband does or if they perfectly agree on everything.

It is still a very stressful process for the two persons and hence the marriage.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: krimster2 on June 26, 2019, 01:14:20 PM
wow!

did not know...
had not even one second stress with my wife EVER on this subject!!!
and we've purchased more than one home together that she decorated and that we lived in

never argued over this...
we argue over our children and we USED to argue over her family...
but last year, she kinda got my point about them, so now we just argue about our kids

in her core, my wife thinks like a Russian "robotnik" worker thinks
children must be obedient laborers like their parents
or you'll have "trouble"
but, as I explained to my wife
our children are NEVER gonna work in some savod in Russia for $200/month
so they don't have to think like someone who does
she's starting to get that idea to...
it just takes awhile I have to be patient

best way to provide satisfaction to a Russian woman is through "teasing"
before my wife's birthday, I'll start talking about diamonds
about how much the prices have gone up, how hard it is to get good stones from South Africa now...
and then on her birthday, have a pair of earrings with 1.5 caret princess cut top shelf diamonds in a polished platinum setting...
that costs what a Honda civic costs (and I'm buying at a huge discount)!!!!!
she cried when I did this!!!
cuz she wanted the civic!!!!!
so then I bought her an Accord, and it's ALL good now!!!
Amazing talking car the 2019 Accord, computerized cameras
i'm thinking of getting a Tesla if the auto-pilot gets better!
took a boat ride on an autonomous computer controlled canal boat
last year in Amsterdam, LOVED IT!!!!

autonomous transportation that lets me sleep or read as I go from point A to B
and then
B to A

some day, I'm gonna go all the way to Z man....
with a Neural Network Pattern Recognition System
a machine of loving grace
to watch over me
as I slumber on the freeway
headin' North at 70 MPH





Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: ML on June 26, 2019, 03:51:35 PM
I keep saying 'building' a new house; not buying an existing home.

Huge difference re stress levels.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: southernX on June 26, 2019, 06:59:01 PM
I keep saying 'building' a new house; not buying an existing home.

Huge difference re stress levels.
ML is correct imo
having done both , built several from ground up , and bought existing then just moved in

they are not comparable with stress levels , buying land , planning , then building is way more stressfull if you let it be than buying existing

SX
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: BillyB on June 26, 2019, 07:08:32 PM
bottom line, I think passive types should stick with Asian women...


All the women in my Asian side of the family are the dominant type. Most Asian women are dominant and don't fit the submissive woman stereotype. A passive man that gets ran over by a RW will also get ran over by an Asian woman. If a guy wants his wife to love him, he needs to gain her respect. If he is not respected, he will get ran over by any woman from any culture.
Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: krimster2 on June 26, 2019, 07:47:29 PM
worse stress level for me personally was remodeling my house in California
but that was with the "system" and not my wife
spent over $35,000 in permits and inspections for a simple remodel of my house
maybe stressed people take it out on their spouse?
but neither one of us does that too each other
my wife mothers me constantly...
I kinda like it actually
cuz' my actual mother never really gave me much attention...
she said I was too ugly as a child, at least, that's what my sister told me!!!



Title: Re: Is there anyway to find out if Ukrainian documents issued for my young son ?
Post by: southernX on June 26, 2019, 08:21:07 PM
Quote
but that was with the "system" and not my wife

correct ,
 the system is designed to make you jump through hoops , it is inherently stressfull dealing with any fed/state  gov or local building authority if its not your core business or job


SX