Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Experienced => Topic started by: Trenchcoat on February 21, 2019, 04:21:45 PM

Title: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 21, 2019, 04:21:45 PM
It's something that has been weighing on my mind more and more over time. A girl could pick any guy online to continue correspondence with, video chat with, and finally meet only to find there is no chemistry. Similarly she could choose not to get into correspondence with a guy online perhaps even adding him to the ignore list but had they met there may have been amazing chemistry.

Even meeting many women a lot of women may  turn the opportunity down a guys invite to message online and so not be in the final 10, 15 or 20 girls you may meet. It could be if luck is not in your favour that all off the girls on a meet 10, 15, or 20 girls may have no chemistry with. Same could be true for a meet one.

So how do we make sense of internet dating? Say guys go for girls initially of photos and girls do the same. So some girls will put in for a girl and they will turn him down based off photo or perhaps some other reason. However, there might have been great chemistry there had they met. So does it make best sense to do internet dating websites or make better sense to try other methods such as going over there and using real meeting people situations instead?
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: BdHvA on February 21, 2019, 04:34:00 PM
It's something that has been weighing on my mind . . .

So how do we make sense of internet dating?

Trenchcoat, I would not think to much.

Perhaps purchase a lottery ticket & spend more time in the real world.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 21, 2019, 04:52:07 PM
Trenchcoat, I would not think to much.

Perhaps purchase a lottery ticket & spend more time in the real world.

There is that, but internet dating sites are not exactly the 'real world' and I think therein lies the problem.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on February 22, 2019, 03:14:10 AM
There is that, but internet dating sites are not exactly the 'real world' and I think therein lies the problem.

The problem is one finding the lass that could suit you . you you aren't the only poster who sees 'lies' and repeats ones of his own - but cannot actually demonstrate 'one' of mine  ;)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 03, 2019, 10:08:45 PM
The problem is the internet is here to stay and very few people use any other medium so.....It's as random as life......some women you get what's apping with a lot you don't.  Maybe you find a partner maybe you don't.   Totally random. 
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Gator on March 04, 2019, 08:06:00 AM
"How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?"

Is it a 30-minute meeting over chai and tort, or a serious meeting?  I assume you are talking about the latter. 

Before deciding to meet, the man must pass an initial hurdle, which has two parts:  1) her interest in the man based on his profile/introduction and 2) her availability (how much she is in demand, how busy she is, her existing relationships).   

If you pass her initial hurdle, its time to talk and explore a possible connection.  Most important:  act normal.   From there its all about feelings, not criteria.   If a connection evolves, a meeting should happen naturally.  If it is difficult to  develop a connection....NEXT!   

Its not Rocket Science!
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 04, 2019, 11:14:02 AM
So please tell me why in the UK I have used .   Plenty of fish ...  match  ..  with medium results .  Yet almost the same add gets me relationships with top professionals with great looks.  Initially I thought it was that somehow my looks fitted in the f s u.  It now dawns on me these top professionals earn 300 dollars a month in the fsu and would probably earn 5000 to 10000 dollars a month as a UK resident.  So am I just a mule ?
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 04, 2019, 01:09:21 PM
So please tell me why in the UK I have used .   Plenty of fish ...  match  ..  with medium results .  Yet almost the same ad gets me relationships with top professionals with great looks.  Initially I thought it was that somehow my looks fitted in the f s u.  It now dawns on me these top professionals earn 300 dollars a month in the fsu and would probably earn 5000 to 10000 dollars a month as a UK resident.  So am I just a mule ?

That's a good question James. A few days back I noticed a girl, serious looking but real enough looking from her photos so that she had a nice everyday look to her which is a look I like as it gives me the impression a girl is authentic. I would put her at around a 6-7 looks wise which I would be happy with, then I read the bad news, she's a Lawyer >:(

Always puts me right off when I see that and similar high professional careers. I would much rather have a check out girl than a career girl. Apart from my thought that a Lawyer type may be too straight laced/stern type there is also the issue for me she would see me as unsuitable as my career path is a bit ad hoc.

Then if course there is the matter that she would earn much more here as you state. So while 300 dollars is above average salary in Ukraine in the west she would earn far more. Now I know these women complain even on FSU sites that guys seem afraid to date a career woman. Problem is I can't see it leading anywhere good unless I got lucky. I would have to feel there was definite chemistry there then hope for the best. In any case once she earned more than me would it become an issue?

On the other hand there are materialistic girls, etc so do I just lump a load of girls together to meet and just see if there is chemistry with any of them? and not worry about the concerns I have.

I think to get even medium results on POF & Match you're doing pretty well James. I only met one girl of Match way back and other guys I know didn't meet any. Those sites can be pretty tough for guys to get much response on.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 04, 2019, 03:46:16 PM
Trench I found the 2 lawyers I dated really great company.  I find highly educated career women easier to be around than the less well educated as you can talk and discuss more and figure out your differences...some times.   Plus they have far more inventive minds.  Each to their own my friend.  Both were really nice people who had been given a hard time by their high flying career husbands and were very happy to just have a romance.  Money never comes into it and they always went Dutch on the bill despite me offering to pick up the entire tab.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 04, 2019, 03:49:38 PM
Trench I think it's about time you dated a single mum many have been given a rough time and really appreciate  kindness far more than a woman with no kids who's  more fancy free
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 04, 2019, 06:36:38 PM
Basic rule I is that man should date/marry women who are at his level intelligence/education/social wise or below.

And women want to date/marry men who are at their level or above.

So those of you who know you don't measure up intelligence/education/social wise, you are following a fools path if you go after the higher level gals.

Sure, you can get a higher level FSU gal more easily than you could a home gal, but she will tire of you and even come to be embarrassed to be with you.

Note:  I am talking about higher level gal intelligence/education/social wise.

A different rule applies to looks, where you can trade up without as much risk . . . if you don't trade up too far.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 04, 2019, 07:25:17 PM
Put it this way, intelligence wise is not a problem, I hold qualifications as long as my arm. Salary wise/job status wise is a different matter. Thinking it through if a Lawyer type came here, well unless she was real into me I think there would be the threat that she would go off with someone at her law firm or a client, etc.

I really think I would be best off getting a girl who doesn't mind losing her career and getting pregnant.

Looks, well if the girl is between an 8-10 then she would have loads of men to choose from in the UK instantly. So that would be a concern also.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 12:11:04 AM
Put it this way, intelligence wise is not a problem, I hold qualifications as long as my arm. Salary wise/job status wise is a different matter. Thinking it through if a Lawyer type came here, well unless she was real into me I think there would be the threat that she would go off with someone at her law firm or a client, etc.

I really think I would be best off getting a girl who doesn't mind losing her career and getting pregnant.

Looks, well if the girl is between an 8-10 then she would have loads of men to choose from in the UK instantly. So that would be a concern also.

Having thought it through more I'm going to rule out girls in the 8-10 looks category. I'm going to assess the girl and if she is above a 7 I'll only contact those after I've exhausted the 5-7 looks category that I think I would prefer.

I've basically decided to avoid the Barbie girls and go for a non-Barbie girl. I want a girl who looks very everyday (not mediocre though) and authentic. I want a girl you could see up or down the street. I've reached this decision as I want a girl who is suitable for a serious long term relationship who I can relate to. I think many Barbie girls just aren't suitable for an LTR and Marriage etc however much they say they are. I've already been there and when I look up a lot of these Barbie girls profiles I foresee the same/similar. They just all give me that impression. When I really just want a down to earth girl next door type of girl.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2019, 12:50:14 AM
Having thought it through more I'm going to rule out girls in the 8-10 looks category. I'm going to assess the girl and if she is above a 7 I'll only contact those after I've exhausted the 5-7 looks category that I think I would prefer.


You are STILL in a dream world.... read on



I've basically decided to avoid the Barbie girls and go for a non-Barbie girl. I want a girl who looks very everyday (not mediocre though) and authentic. I want a girl you could see up or down the street. I've reached this decision as I want a girl who is suitable for a serious long term relationship who I can relate to. I think many Barbie girls just aren't suitable for an LTR and Marriage etc however much they say they are. I've already been there and when I look up a lot of these Barbie girls profiles I foresee the same/similar. They just all give me that impression. When I really just want a down to earth girl next door type of girl.

NO..you don't - you DO want a 9/10 and you will not get a 1/2 unless you rid yourself of your misogynistic tendencies..((
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 01:56:31 AM

You are STILL in a dream world.... read on


NO..you don't - you DO want a 9/10 and you will not get a 1/2 unless you rid yourself of your misogynistic tendencies..((

Prey tell them dear Mobers why I want a 9/10?
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 07, 2019, 02:35:57 AM
Prey tell them dear Mobers why I want a 9/10?


You like the idea of a 9/10.. but your paranoia and insecurity are telling you that a woman who is a) superior to you in looks, b) superior to you in intellect and, c) superior to you in ambition is going to run off with the next best man that comes along.


You and your mate James continue to look at this in entirely the wrong light and it is why you are (both) doomed to failure. You need to stop theorising over needless BS and start actually DOING something to find someone who is good and compatible for you, irrespective of her grading of looks or career aspirations. 
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 07, 2019, 05:05:55 AM
Well I'm off to dinipro 17 March for a week .  Megan fox the gas  and oil pipeline engineer beckons.  After my divorce I dated any English woman who replied to my internet profile strangely the intelligent 8s and 9s were far easier to get along with than the 3 to 7s.  The same can be said for the fsu the more intelligent and better looking the easier we got on.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 07:54:59 AM

You like the idea of a 9/10.. but your paranoia and insecurity are telling you that a woman who is a) superior to you in looks, b) superior to you in intellect and, c) superior to you in ambition is going to run off with the next best man that comes along.


You and your mate James continue to look at this in entirely the wrong light and it is why you are (both) doomed to failure. You need to stop theorising over needless BS and start actually DOING something to find someone who is good and compatible for you, irrespective of her grading of looks or career aspirations.

I'm not saying it is not possible to get a 8-10 with all you state and her be loyal etc but that on balance most of the time for me it won't be a good scenario.

I'm not a wealthy guy. I have some wealth but not the sort an 8-10 girl will be looking for. As the old saying goes 'they know what they're worth'. Even if I found an 8-10 with chemistry she could still be very tempted by someone with near film/pop star wealth.

A 5-7 girl will not only know that is a slim chance but also be more down to earth and genuine as a generality, not in all cases but in many. Fine for guys on here that have a lot of money to go for the 8-10 looks girls they can provide the comfort and the lifestyle they are looking for.

I know you can get 5-7 girls who want that/think they can get a real wealthy guy but I think they are in the minority. Even online their profile will be viewed less by men and hit on less by them, I see the stats on number of views etc. Sex tourists also tend to go for the 8-10 girls as they  are just interested in getting a real hottie with film star looks for a quick banging. As a result the 8-10's can get conditioned into game play even if they had an intention for a serious relationship as they'll immediately take that each guy is on the same footing. 5-7's will be passed over by a lot of these guys. I have no illusion with 8-10's that I'm the first one to knock on their door. Then there are the local guys, these girls are not living in the middle of a desert waiting for my arrival they will be attractive to local guys also!

The thing is I think a 5-7 girl will be more compatible for me than a 8-10 girl. Now I don't mean 5-7 in a derogatory way nor in a settling for less sort of way. As we know a 5-7 in the FSU is normally at least one point higher anyway than a 5-7 in the UK etc. The FSU has a lot of girls in the 8-10 looks range and most of the more bearable ones go quick. Here in the UK we have few 8-10's and the ones that are think they are god's gift. We have lots in the 1-4 range many downgraded so because they have trashed themselves by getting fat or just plain don't have the genetics there to look even reasonable nice. They get hit on by guys as guys feel they have little choice and so even then they have competition.

I remember nearly a couple of years ago in Cyprus now. I was walking in Pathos with my Ukrainian girl who was around a good 9. Young English guys were there also, not the real chavvy type either. They were of general athletic build walking around with chubby English girls, not real extreme obesity but not exactly attractive none the less. They saw me with my Ukrainian 9 looks girl and I could see the look on their faces, I even heard one complain to he's other half that why is she with me (since I'm an average rather than athletic build, slightly older looking, etc) and saying to her that it wouldn't harm to lose a bit of weight, lol. Don't think that went down well with her :D

So I'm not theorising here but just being more realistic in terms of what I should be going for and with what I am going for suits me. I don't need to wake up next to a film star looks girl, I just want to wake up to a girl I can love and who genuinely loves me back.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 07, 2019, 10:17:52 AM
Incongruous as it seems, the 5-7 gals or even below, often get a little confused when a man finally gives them some attention.
Confused in that, even as they haven't had sex or even a date in X years, they suddenly start thinking they are the Homecoming Queen . . . and begin to act like it.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 10:59:24 AM
Well I'm off to dinipro 17 March for a week .  Megan fox the gas  and oil pipeline engineer beckons.  After my divorce I dated any English woman who replied to my internet profile strangely the intelligent 8s and 9s were far easier to get along with than the 3 to 7s.  The same can be said for the fsu the more intelligent and better looking the easier we got on.

I think going for a girl with a child would alter the balance a bit in your favour as a generalisation James, not always of course. That and she may be more genuine as see deals with the reality of bringing up a child again as a generalisation. I think you're in a bit different postion to me also in terms of wealth, now I don't think your using your wealth as leverage but its going to be easier to keep a girl content if you can offer a pretty comfortable lifestyle. For me importing a girl with a kid would be a bigger headache as I would have more hurdles to have to clear and support the child too from the word go.

Its kind of funny though how a lot of girls out in the FSU look like celebrity doubles, lol. I think a fair few of hot looking female celebrities have slavic genes even if they were born in the US from often much earlier immigration around the 1900's or so. I think someone in your situation could keep hold of a Megan Fox lokkalike :D Unlike this guy as we have seen, about 1.40 min in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSmrEm6yQbI

This guy though lacked the wealth and did not look great despite being a nice guy, some of the comments below the video many from women point to these issues as well. He didn't really realise he didn't compare favourably with Angelina Jolie lookalike and had not near enough sufficient wealth to overcome his issues. She was also of course an agency girl out for a good quick buck of course.

Now compared to this guy on the same docu tour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5ImarYhZ9U

His girl was way below an Angelina Jolie lookalike, I would say she was probably about a 4 facially looks wise. She actually had a nice slim figure and look quite tall which is nice. He came across like Elmer Fudd, an NRA nut, not great socially, slightly balding and a bit overweight/beer belly. He didn't get ripped off and ended up having a kid with her. Still compared to the fatties in the US and scraggy girls I'm guess she would come in at least a 5 in the US and of course he is no doubt happy with a girl who if was a US girl he would probably struggle to get. So I think its worth taking note from this that a good life may be had with girls who don't come in on the 8-10 model looks scale I'm thinking. Body wise his girl is probably at least a good 7 and he no doubt goes to bed a happy chappy :)     
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 11:06:22 AM
Incongruous as it seems, the 5-7 gals or even below, often get a little confused when a man finally gives them some attention.
Confused in that, even as they haven't had sex or even a date in X years, they suddenly start thinking they are the Homecoming Queen . . . and begin to act like it.

Thanks ML, that's good to know, I appreiciate the input. I can imagine that you're right there. The 9 girl I had in Cyprus started to act like an San Fernando spoilt teen brat, very much so towards the end of the holiday. Looks like its a case of not treating these girls too well at any level or they quickly get up themselves.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 07, 2019, 12:10:08 PM
Thanks ML, that's good to know, I appreiciate the input. I can imagine that you're right there. The 9 girl I had in Cyprus started to act like an San Fernando spoilt teen brat, very much so towards the end of the holiday. Looks like its a case of not treating these girls too well at any level or they quickly get up themselves.


When did everyone stop seeing attractive women for what they were and start feeling the need to brand them as 5', 7's, or 9's?


This isn't a statistical analysis, it's based on chemistry and emotions. Get a grip Trench.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 07, 2019, 12:49:39 PM

When did everyone stop seeing attractive women for what they were and start feeling the need to brand them as 5', 7's, or 9's?

Started with Moses.

We do see women's looks for what they are; and they are in categories 1-10.

You need to get a grip.

Referring to 5, 7, 9 etc., is just an easy way to make most understand what she looks like even as the assignment is imperfect and different folks would assign a different number to different gals.

But rarely would anyone assign a 2 to a 9 and vice versa, etc.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 01:11:32 PM
Started with Moses.

We do see women's looks for what they are; and they are in categories 1-10.

You need to get a grip.

Referring to 5, 7, 9 etc., is just an easy way to make most understand what she looks like even as the assignment is imperfect and different folks would assign a different number to different gals.

But rarely would anyone assign a 2 to a 9 and vice versa, etc.

ML is absolutely correct. Women do the same with men even if they don't verbally state a number system.

When we get to know a girl all the assigned number can become less relevant. The being in a relationship with someone you get on with, value and care about can become top.

I don't really have a thing about obsessing about the category number a girl is or assigning each and every girl one but as ML says it's way way of understanding what she looks like, once communication may have commenced then there are other things to go by.
Title: Find a good girl, then win her heart
Post by: 2tallbill on March 07, 2019, 02:14:30 PM
So please tell me why in the UK I have used .   Plenty of fish ...  match  ..  with medium results .  Yet almost the same add gets me relationships with top professionals with great looks.  Initially I thought it was that somehow my looks fitted in the f s u.  It now dawns on me these top professionals earn 300 dollars a month in the fsu and would probably earn 5000 to 10000 dollars a month as a UK resident.  So am I just a mule ?

James,

Why can you find a better quality girl in the FSU who is looking for marriage than in the UK?
It's because of supply and demand. There is a reason they call it the law of supply and demand
rather than the theory of supply and demand.

What percentage of UK girls are looking for marriage? 20%? Less?
What percentage of FSU girls are looking for marriage? 80%? More?

What percentage of HOT UK girls are able to find a man to accept their 3 children
from 3 different men? 75%? More?

What percentage of HOT FSU girls are able to find a man to accept their 1 child
and be that childs father 25%? Less?

It's supply and demand very simple.

So am I just a mule ?

You need to find a good girl, then you need to win her heart, then you will have nothing to
worry about. Most FSUW marry men who have very little money or income because they
L-O-V-E them. That's a good girl, that's what you want.

If you need help learning to determine what a good girl is and how to find her you've
came to the right place (if you actually want to learn). Otherwise feel to fumble about
on your own.

Udachi!

Bill


Edit to add

top professionals earn 300 dollars a month in the fsu


Angel eyes made more than 4 times that amount in Russia.

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 03:10:49 PM

Angel eyes made more than 4 times that amount in Russia.

Top professionals in Kyiv make well over US$1,000 per month.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 07, 2019, 03:18:06 PM
Top professionals in Kyiv make well over US$1,000 per month.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

I thought so as well. The girl in Dnepropetrovsk I dated made more than $1000 per month
and so did the girl from Kiev that I met in Portland. I didn't have any recent references to
point to.

Maybe the school girl who works part time at the Pizza kiosk makes $300 per month.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 03:21:38 PM
IMHO, the reason the averages are so low is that wages are lower in outer regions, and unemployment is high. 



This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 07, 2019, 03:25:25 PM
IMHO, the reason the averages are so low is that wages are lower in outer regions, and unemployment is high. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Do they put pensioners in the mix too? Because that would lower the averages as well.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 03:32:26 PM
Top professionals in Kyiv make well over US$1,000 per month.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Pleased to know I earn just as much or more than a top Ukrainian professional :D
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 07, 2019, 03:38:27 PM
Top professionals in Kyiv make well over US$1,000 per month.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

School teachers, university professors and many medical doctors still make less than $500 a month in Kyiv.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 03:43:51 PM
School teachers, university professors and many medical doctors still make less than $500 a month in Kyiv.
:cheesy: Who would have thought I earn more than double of a Ukrainian Uni professor or medical doctor!
Title: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 07, 2019, 03:45:23 PM
Pleased to know I earn just as much or more than a top Ukrainian professional :D


:cheesy: Who would have thought I earn more than double of a Ukrainian Uni professor or medical doctor!

A high school dropout that works at McDonald's full time in Colorado makes $23,088 per year
($1,924.00 per month), but by the end of their first year they will be making more than that.

[Edit to add]

Trench, why on Earth would you fear that some FSUW will take you to the cleaners?

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 03:49:00 PM
Do they put pensioners in the mix too? Because that would lower the averages as well.


No, only wage earners.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 03:52:31 PM

A high school dropout that works at McDonald's full time in Colorado makes $23,088 per year
($1,924.00 per month), but by the end of their first year they will be making more than that.


Touche. 

That high school drop out, probably 17 years old, is already making more than 40 year old Trench.  Here, that McDonald's employee would make $29,250 annually.  Plus, after six months, he/she is eligible for employee benefits.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 03:58:59 PM

A high school dropout that works at McDonald's full time in Colorado makes $23,088 per year
($1,924.00 per month), but by the end of their first year they will be making more than that.

True US employers are way more generous than  stingy UK employers. All US companies I have encountered in the UK have always been much nicer than UK companies I work for. Even with the higher UK exchange rate US employers still pay more.

I guess in terms of FSU dating the cheaper UK flight costs can offset the difference a little. Even still to think a US McDonald's workers earn way more than a Ukrainian Medical Doctor is indeed a sobering thought. Funny thing is if a US guy said worked for McDonald's when messaging a FSW, for many girls that message would be the most likely one the probably wouldn't respond to, lol.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 03:59:47 PM
School teachers, university professors and many medical doctors still make less than $500 a month in Kyiv.


If you want medical treatment in Kyiv, you will need to pay a physician additional amounts, minimum, for surgery, for example, US$150.  Now multiply that by the number of patients a surgeon sees monthly.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 04:01:11 PM

Touche. 

That high school drop out, probably 17 years old, is already making more than 40 year old Trench.  Here, that McDonald's employee would make $29,250 annually.  Plus, after six months, he/she is eligible for employee benefits.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

They no doubt are, still my job title would probably just be enough for a decent FSW to think I earned more :)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 04:03:10 PM
Thanks ML, that's good to know, I appreiciate the input. I can imagine that you're right there. The 9 girl I had in Cyprus started to act like an San Fernando spoilt teen brat, very much so towards the end of the holiday. Looks like its a case of not treating these girls too well at any level or they quickly get up themselves.


She was trying to get rid of you. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 04:05:35 PM
True US employers are way more generous than  stingy UK employers. All US companies I have encountered in the UK have always been much nicer than UK companies I work for. Even with the higher UK exchange rate US employers still pay more.

I guess in terms of FSU dating the cheaper UK flight costs can offset the difference a little. Even still to think a US McDonald's workers earn way more than a Ukrainian Medical Doctor is indeed a sobering thought. Funny thing is if a US guy said worked for McDonald's when messaging a FSW, for many girls that message would be the most likely one the probably wouldn't respond to, lol.


The US McDonalds worker has far, far more expenses than the Ukrainian medical doctor.  Plus, he/she is paying taxes.  That's what you never "get" when you compare, favorably, the pittance you earn, to that of the average Ukrainian.  Unless a woman is madly in love with you, why would she trade a life of poverty in Ukraine for a life of poverty in the UK?


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 04:06:24 PM
They no doubt are, still my job title would probably just be enough for a decent FSW to think I earned more :)


And what happens when eventually, she learns the truth?


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 04:10:17 PM

And what happens when eventually, she learns the truth?


This post was composed without the aid of google.

How would she? Even all pay slips are electronic now. I own my own property so have scope to provide at least a decent standard of living. As long as she gets a decent standard of living compared with Ukraine or wherever that's all she needs to know :)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 04:13:49 PM
She is going to know how much things cost, and how much money is coming into the home.  Plus, at your salary level, you are not offering a "decent standard of living" compared to the FSU.  The fact you are even asking this suggests you know zero about the nature of FSUW.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 04:22:45 PM
She is going to know how much things cost, and how much money is coming into the home.  Plus, at your salary level, you are not offering a "decent standard of living" compared to the FSU.  The fact you are even asking this suggests you know zero about the nature of FSUW.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

I earn the same or more than a top professional in Kiev :) I will be able to swing it enough to provide a decent standard of living to Ukraine. I don't living in a concrete tower block in a city ghetto. It's quite nice where I live, I won't need to do much more than that for the lifestyle to look a decent enough upgrade, particularly for a 5-7 girl who may have struggled to get guys in Ukraine or elsewhere.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 04:29:51 PM
The cost of living in Ukraine is about 60% lower than in the UK.   So no, your comparison is flawed.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 07, 2019, 04:33:10 PM
How would she?

Trench,

You need to be very honest with these girls. You need to find a good girl and she will
toss you like moldy bread if she finds you are dishonest. That INCLUDES dishonesty
by omission.

You will lose a good girl if you try to pretend a cubic zirconia is a real diamond, or that
you make ONE pence more than you actually do.

YOU CAN'T FOOL THEM SO DON'T TRY!!!
YOU CAN'T FOOL THEM SO DON'T TRY!!!
YOU CAN'T FOOL THEM SO DON'T TRY!!!

You can actually be more successful if you are super honest and tell them, you work only
enough to pay the bills so that you can spend more time with your future wife. Ask them
if they prefer a cubic zirconia or something else.

Do you really want to lose a good girl that is into you because you were trying to pretend
to be something that you aren't? You can find a good girl but you have to be absolutely
honest with her if you want it to work.

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 04:36:17 PM
YOU CAN'T FOOL THEM SO DON'T TRY!!!
YOU CAN'T FOOL THEM SO DON'T TRY!!!
YOU CAN'T FOOL THEM SO DON'T TRY!!!


This.  1,000%.


This post was composed without the aid of google.



Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 04:39:55 PM
Trench,

You need to be very honest with these girls. You need to find a good girl and she will
toss you like moldy bread if she finds you are dishonest. That INCLUDES dishonesty
by omission.

You will lose a good girl if you try to pretend a cubic zirconia is a real diamond, or that
you make ONE pence more than you actually do.

YOU CAN'T FOOL THEM SO DON'T TRY!!!
YOU CAN'T FOOL THEM SO DON'T TRY!!!
YOU CAN'T FOOL THEM SO DON'T TRY!!!

You can actually be more successful if you are super honest and tell them, you work only
enough to pay the bills so that you can spend more time with your future wife. Ask them
if they prefer a cubic zirconia or something else.

Do you really want to lose a good girl that is into you because you were trying to pretend
to be something that you aren't? You can find a good girl but you have to be absolutely
honest with her if you want it to work.

I know what you're say bill, these girls have major BS detectors. I wouldn't do so by ommission so much I would just tell her that I take care of the business so she doesn't need to worry her pretty little self about it :)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 04:41:59 PM
The cost of living in Ukraine is about 60% lower than in the UK.   So no, your comparison is flawed.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Depends on what and where in Ukraine, inflation has made prices rise their and in many cases not far below UK prices and many Ukrainians have reported they are struggling.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 07, 2019, 04:45:22 PM
Yep I think Moscow pay is better.  I know only Minsk and sumy. 
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 04:50:15 PM

Depends on what and where in Ukraine, inflation has made prices rise their and in many cases not far below UK prices and many Ukrainians have reported they are struggling.

Where in the UK can you go to a restaurant and have a sit down meal for four for $20?

Can you buy a liter of milk for a little over US$1?  A 500 ml beer for that same amount?  A loaf of bread or a kilo of potatoes for under $0.50? 

These are all Kyiv prices, incidentally.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 04:54:52 PM
Yep I think Moscow pay is better.  I know only Minsk and sumy.


Bill's wife is not from Moscow. 


Sumy's wages are consistently between 80% and 84% of Ukraine's national average.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 04:55:17 PM
Yep I think Moscow pay is better.  I know only Minsk and sumy.
Moscow pay will definitely be way better, it's all a lot more like London type of salary and expenses there. Kiev is clapped out economically compared to Moscow. Kiev is still the most prosperous part of Ukraine though.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 05:02:40 PM
Where in the UK can you go to a restaurant and have a sit down meal for four for $20?

Can you buy a liter of milk for a little over US$1?  A 500 mil beer for that same amount?  A loaf of bread or a kilo of potatoes for under $0.50? 


These are all Kyiv prices, incidentally.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Weatherspoons for the restaurant meal for 4 for around 20 pounds/dollars.

Food prices in the supermarkets are pretty cheap here due to competition and imports. Look on this supermarket website and you'll find most of the prices similar to Ukraine, set on the bread page for example:

http://groceries.asda.com/search/Bread?cmpid=ahc-_-ghs-_-asdacom-_-hp-_-search-bread
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 05:08:33 PM
A Ukrainian won't eat that bread.  I mean good, organic food, which is what most Ukrainians eat.

Any comparison of cost of living puts Ukraine's cost at 60% less than in the UK.  Their salaries are less than that, so it's relative.  They also don't pay any sales taxes.


But, let's let other UK posters who have been through the process comment on whether you can support a wife in the UK on your current salary, or even with a 20% increase.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 05:16:31 PM
Well I'm off to dinipro 17 March for a week .  Megan fox the gas  and oil pipeline engineer beckons.  After my divorce I dated any English woman who replied to my internet profile strangely the intelligent 8s and 9s were far easier to get along with than the 3 to 7s.  The same can be said for the fsu the more intelligent and better looking the easier we got on.


Why are you wasting time on a woman who has already demonstrated who she is?  It appears,  more and more, that you are not seriously seeking a wife.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 05:21:44 PM
A Ukrainian won't eat that bread.  I mean good, organic food, which is what most Ukrainians eat.

Any comparison of cost of living puts Ukraine's cost at 60% less than in the UK.  Their salaries are less than that, so it's relative.  They also don't pay any sales taxes.


But, let's let other UK posters who have been through the process comment on whether you can support a wife in the UK on your current salary, or even with a 20% increase.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

You know there will be a lot of posters that will come out and say no to that Boe and will slam me on it. We've done all that before on here. Fact of the matter is a lot of people on benefit here survive on far less than I bring in single or couple. Owning my own house without any mortgage means I have more disposable income and less costs. So long as I don't pick up another materialistic girl I'll be able to provide for her and keep spending under control.

I know Ukrainians can be fussy on their eating, etc. Even still bakery loaves etc can be bought relatively cheaply. Maybe slightly more but 60 percent, who knows. In any case even with 60 percent more food is a relatively small outgoing expense in the UK. For most it is mortgages etc that are the biggest cost, I don't have that :)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 05:25:46 PM
The point is not what people "survive" on.  A FSUW who is giving up her life, her family, her language, her culture, is not doing so just to end up in the same position in a foreign country with no support around her.


As for other posters, I am looking for reality, which I think they will provide.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 05:26:33 PM

Why are you wasting time on a woman who has already demonstrated who she is?  It appears,  more and more, that you are not seriously seeking a wife.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

James doesn't mean he sugar daddy one who was north of Kiev, Sumy or something I think it was, this is a new girl.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 05:29:18 PM
I know.  He already posted about her.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 05:32:54 PM
The point is not what people "survive" on.  A FSUW who is giving up her life, her family, her language, her culture, is not doing so just to end up in the same position in a foreign country with no support around her.


As for other posters, I am looking for reality, which I think they will provide.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

I get your point. She won't be in the same position. She will be living in a nice area and able to have stuff she wants within reason. Plus she will be there as she is into me (I would hope) and hopefully having children of her own.

Now I know some girls put themselves onto international dating sites for a real wealthy guy. Others for all sorts of reasons, if a girl is a 5-7 she ain't going to get many if any real wealthy guys knocking on her door, cue my arrival :D
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 05:36:34 PM
The vast majority of UW marry UM, in Ukraine.  Even "5's" and below. 


There are a lot of things you can't give a UW who stays in Ukraine, the most important being a sense of community, of deep friendships, of relying on neighbours and family to help you when things are not going well.  You underestimate this to your detriment.


You won't find a sincere woman unless you change the way you think, particularly your misogyny and your idea that you will be in control of everything.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 05:48:31 PM
The vast majority of UW marry UM, in Ukraine.  Even "5's" and below. 


There are a lot of things you can't give a UW who stays in Ukraine, the most important being a sense of community, of deep friendships, of relying on neighbours and family to help you when things are not going well.  You underestimate this to your detriment.


You won't find a sincere woman unless you change the way you think, particularly your misogyny and your idea that you will be in control of everything.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

So why are these 5-7s putting themselves on dating websites????

The ones I am looking at in their thirties will be passed their Ukrainian sell by date for marriage. That doesn't bother me but many UM either marry young, go for younger girls or just are in no position to date UW.

I know UW often try to grapple to gain control and resent not getting it big time. That is something I will have to be diplomatic with them on.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2019, 05:51:18 PM
I know.  He already posted about her.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

So what's wrong with the Megan Fox lookalike?

Who 'is' she?

I know there is finding out to be had about her but at the moment we can only speculate as to what might arise surely?
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2019, 07:54:43 PM
Trench

What ARE you blathering about re comparing UK to Ukraine costs of living ?

UK milk is cheap thanks to subsidies, but as Boethius points out 'we' in the UK have same bread that FSUW will not buy, given it's packed with preservatives.

Have you shared a life with a FSUW in the UK?....No....

If you entertain a lady at a Weatherspoons ...that says much..Even there, you would be hard pushed to get a meal for a fiver a head, including a drink.

.



Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: tfcrew on March 07, 2019, 09:01:39 PM
Where in the UK can you go to a restaurant and have a sit down meal for four for $20?

 In London the average cost of fish and chips is £5.00
    (http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/a7/00/30/fish-n-chips.jpg)
 This post was composed utilizing the aid of google(http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Smileys/DarkB/undecided.gif)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2019, 09:17:55 PM
Ah the danger of googling and proving cluelessness.

Eating fish and chips in a restaurant incurs VAT (sales tax) at twenty percent

Good luck with finding Fish and Chips plated up at a resturant for less than a fiver, :wallbash:..esp in London

http://www.accountsandlegal.co.uk/tax-advice/vat-in-the-food-industry (http://www.accountsandlegal.co.uk/tax-advice/vat-in-the-food-industry)



Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 07, 2019, 11:51:11 PM
Started with Moses.

We do see women's looks for what they are; and they are in categories 1-10.

You need to get a grip.

Referring to 5, 7, 9 etc., is just an easy way to make most understand what she looks like even as the assignment is imperfect and different folks would assign a different number to different gals.

But rarely would anyone assign a 2 to a 9 and vice versa, etc.


Hardly need to get a grip, common sense prevails... I'm not going to marry anyone who ranks less than a '7' in the looks or personality category in my eyes, am I?


So, your 1-10 scale is irrelevant to me. It's a way for you boys to boast about what you did (or didn't) manage to pull pr what you'll sacrifice in one department to compensate for another.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 08, 2019, 12:06:29 AM
So what's wrong with the Megan Fox lookalike?

Who 'is' she?

I know there is finding out to be had about her but at the moment we can only speculate as to what might arise surely?


New woman, same holes in the plan. Same red flags as the last two women. Do you not remember the trip where he was in her apartment happily being two-timed? You can lead a horse to water...
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 08, 2019, 12:12:51 AM
I get your point. She won't be in the same position. She will be living in a nice area and able to have stuff she wants within reason. Plus she will be there as she is into me (I would hope) and hopefully having children of her own.

Now I know some girls put themselves onto international dating sites for a real wealthy guy. Others for all sorts of reasons, if a girl is a 5-7 she ain't going to get many if any real wealthy guys knocking on her door, cue my arrival :D


So now you plan on starting a family? Boe is right, you have no chance, irrespective of how much you think a good loaf of bread costs. Hope Mrs Trench and family like a good Wetherspoons meal!


Poor Miss 5-7 when she finds out what she's let herself in for....oh wait, she won't because Trench will have tricked her into thinking he's a successful wealthy architect (if she hasn't already run off with the milk man).
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Blighty on March 08, 2019, 05:44:59 AM

But, let's let other UK posters who have been through the process comment on whether yu can support a wife in the UK on your current salary, or even with a 20% increase.


My feeling is that TC is going to struggle on his current income, especially as I have a comfortable retirement income. My wife is still adapting to the UK, and she sometimes struggles with life in the UK. She feels that people are unsociable (especially our miserable [racist] neighbours), clothing and food prices are expensive, and that our present weather is very cold and wet. It is going to take time for any Ukrainian wife to adjust to the British way of life, and I think that restricted household income would be detrimental to any relationship.

TC will also need to spend both time and money on any future Mrs TC. My wife enjoys 'window shopping', pub lunches, restaurants in the evening, and visits to historical sites in London, York, etc. I am retired, and so time and money are no problem for me.

I found the search for a wife quite straightforward. The hard work is first getting the visa, and then helping the UW to settle into her new country. Others from the uK may have a different view!
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2019, 08:03:44 AM
My feeling is that TC is going to struggle on his current income, especially as I have a comfortable retirement income. My wife is still adapting to the UK, and she sometimes struggles with life in the UK. She feels that people are unsociable (especially our miserable [racist] neighbours), clothing and food prices are expensive, and that our present weather is very cold and wet. It is going to take time for any Ukrainian wife to adjust to the British way of life, and I think that restricted household income would be detrimental to any relationship.

TC will also need to spend both time and money on any future Mrs TC. My wife enjoys 'window shopping', pub lunches, restaurants in the evening, and visits to historical sites in London, York, etc. I am retired, and so time and money are no problem for me.

I found the search for a wife quite straightforward. The hard work is first getting the visa, and then helping the UW to settle into her new country. Others from the uK may have a different view!

I don't think it's the income as such I would struggle on. I think there is a definite problem with how a FSW would preoccupy herself whilst I'm at work. Not just me but any WM who works with a FSW. I'm not too badly off as I work what you call unsociable hours (nights) and longer hours but that in turn mean I have the equivalent of a four day weekend and a bit of time during the day after sleeping through the morning and a bit of the afternoon.

Even still, there is still going to be time when I'm not there. Now some time apart is no doubt good for both to have a breather. I still wonder though his a girl is going to cope with those alone times? Hopefully not with another guy :o

Now I know she can watch stuff on TV, Netflix etc and maybe do a bit of gardening and a few other hobbies but I doubt there is going to be much to keep herself from getting bored once she has done stuff like that for a bit. Once a girl has children then she has them to preoccupy her but that is not going to happen instantly, while she is pregnant she could be bored out of her mind. So how to deal with this? I'm not in the position to be there 24/7 with her and even if I was we might get fed up of each other and run out of stuff to do I'm guessing.

Conversely I could live out in the FSU upon marriage if I could muster about £1k a month in independent income I think with the girl. That should provide a decent standard of living by FSU standards particularly say out in the poorer areas of somewhere like Ukraine say. In the near future I will only be able to manage about half that which I admit won't deliver her any standard of living than what she is already used to out there. I don't think I could do it as my Mother would be left without seeing any family too long which I would fear would adversely affect her. Of course if I brought in £1k of independent income I could give up my job or at least cut down on hours. Once I get the £500 in a month at best I would just be able to cut down on hours a little.

Girl could of course work a part time job in the UK and this could solve the issue. This may not happen straight away though even if she wanted to. Her English would have to be decent enough to get spousal visa etc though I guess even then she could preoccupy sometime with learning the language better if need be. What do you guys think of such a situation such as this?
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Blighty on March 08, 2019, 08:33:20 AM
Girl could of course work a part time job in the UK and this could solve the issue. This may not happen straight away though even if she wanted to. Her English would have to be decent enough to get spousal visa etc though I guess even then she could preoccupy sometime with learning the language better if need be. What do you guys think of such a situation such as this?

Most wives will require a lot of support after their arrival in the UK. My wife and I give each other plenty of space whilst together. E.g., she is downstairs listening to an English lesson over the internet as I am typing this post upstairs. You will need to discuss these issues with the future Mrs TC before agreeing to marry each other.

My wife finds it strange with you need a car to visit shopping centres, supermarkets, etc. as they are mostly located next to major roads away from transport links. She is unimpressed by the efficiency of British trains ... why is the 10:20 at the local station always late with the same pathetic excuse.

No one can answer your question TC as it is all down to personal choices and preferences.

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2019, 09:20:04 AM
Most wives will require a lot of support after their arrival in the UK. My wife and I give each other plenty of space whilst together. E.g., she is downstairs listening to an English lesson over the internet as I am typing this post upstairs. You will need to discuss these issues with the future Mrs TC before agreeing to marry each other.

My wife finds it strange with you need a car to visit shopping centres, supermarkets, etc. as they are mostly located next to major roads away from transport links. She is unimpressed by the efficiency of British trains ... why is the 10:20 at the local station always late with the same pathetic excuse.

No one can answer your question TC as it is all down to personal choices and preferences.

I see what you mean, it would depend on how the girl is like, what's on hand etc. Sounds like it's a case of assessing in advance how girl might take it in the UK then once again when here. I guess my hours aren't too bad as like you  say most people need a bit of time apart anyway at some point so it's more how she will fill her time adequately to be content. I appreciate the input Blightly :)

Does your wife ever get homesick, miss real life time with her friends than just Skype sessions?
Title: How does a guy decide to hide information from his wife?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 08, 2019, 09:27:41 AM
I know what you're say bill, these girls have major BS detectors. I wouldn't do so by ommission so much I would just tell her that I take care of the business so she doesn't need to worry her pretty little self about it :)

On something like a wedding ring I let Angel Eyes pick it out. She is far more frugal
than I am and I just got a gold band. I think that it was more than $400 and less than
$600 for both of them, it was in Rubles I really don't remember.

As for finances and paying the bills, you are using stinkin' thinkin' both underestimating
and disparaging somebody at the same time that should be your partner in crime. I mean if
you were really upfront about it and got her to buy in on the idea of working less and having
more time together and then really spending that time together you would be a thousand
miles ahead of the situation you think will happen (it won't by the way).

AND
She is going to want to work at least part time and she will see 100% of that money as hers
especially if you go with the "don't worry your pretty little head about the bills" routine. She
will see how much money she has and will figure out how little you have. You are heading
down the road to failure.

You need to get her to buy in to the work less and enjoy life more lifestyle. I think that the
day she misses her first menstrual cycle is the last day of that lifestyle however. Once she
has a bun in the oven her instincts to build a safe nest and a better life for her child will
kick in and things will have to change. 

Girl could of course work a part time job in the UK and this could solve the issue. This may not happen
straight away though even if she wanted to. Her English would have to be decent enough to get spousal
visa etc though I guess even then she could preoccupy sometime with learning the language better if need
be. What do you guys think of such a situation such as this?

Maybe you should switch things up altogether and marry a physician or person who would be a
high wage earner in the UK.

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 08, 2019, 09:31:00 AM
You will need to discuss these issues with the future Mrs TC before agreeing to marry each other.

+100

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 08, 2019, 04:46:17 PM
Trench working nights .. 10 year lower   life expectancy .  Massive increase in risk of lukemia .  No social life.  Mate you need to think outside the box and find a new job.  I purchased fish and chips and a battered sausage and it came to over £10  last night And my MacDonald breakfasts came to over £10 .  I eat healthily normally but my first job today was in a MacDonald car park.  I actually booked the drive through for 10 minutes and the look on the angry drivers faces )))))
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2019, 06:45:27 PM
Trench working nights .. 10 year lower   life expectancy .  Massive increase in risk of lukemia .  No social life.  Mate you need to think outside the box and find a new job.  I purchased fish and chips and a battered sausage and it came to over £10  last night And my MacDonald breakfasts came to over £10 .  I eat healthily normally but my first job today was in a MacDonald car park.  I actually booked the drive through for 10 minutes and the look on the angry drivers faces )))))

Won't probably be as bad for me as not on the go all night and I only do three nights a week. Only other thought I have had is to do Uber driving. I would need to get a new car as car has to be newer than five years old at initial local authority registering for it so an initial outlay. Theoretically I can increase my income and have flexibile working but of course there is always the chance I might not make as much as I think I might make. My job at the moment fits somewhat so I could be in a lot worse position I figure.
Title: Re: How does a guy decide to hide information from his wife?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2019, 07:27:16 PM
On something like a wedding ring I let Angel Eyes pick it out. She is far more frugal
than I am and I just got a gold band. I think that it was more than $400 and less than
$600 for both of them, it was in Rubles I really don't remember.

As for finances and paying the bills, you are using stinkin' thinkin' both underestimating
and disparaging somebody at the same time that should be your partner in crime. I mean if
you were really upfront about it and got her to buy in on the idea of working less and having
more time together and then really spending that time together you would be a thousand
miles ahead of the situation you think will happen (it won't by the way).

AND
She is going to want to work at least part time and she will see 100% of that money as hers
especially if you go with the "don't worry your pretty little head about the bills" routine. She
will see how much money she has and will figure out how little you have. You are heading
down the road to failure.

You need to get her to buy in to the work less and enjoy life more lifestyle. I think that the
day she misses her first menstrual cycle is the last day of that lifestyle however. Once she
has a bun in the oven her instincts to build a safe nest and a better life for her child will
kick in and things will have to change. 

Maybe you should switch things up altogether and marry a physician or person who would be a
high wage earner in the UK.

Thanks Bill, well I might not exclude the career girls out of hand. You have a point there, I'm still concerned that their career would end up driving in a different direction to me wanting children. It's something that I would have to sort out/make clear from the start and of course I think that could only be with a career girl there was chemistry with or it would mean disaster for sure.

I get your other points and appreciate your input. I don't have a problem with a girl having a part time job and keeping the money for herself, it lightens the load on me. I don't also mind keeping a girl so long as she doesn't want big spending from me. I'm probably going to have to feel my way through it all at the time and go with my gut on what is the right way forward depending on the girl I'm with, assuming I get to that stage I guess. I'm moving towards another attempt soon at this game about mid April ish I think so hopefully I might do better at this soon  :)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 09, 2019, 02:01:47 AM
Uber driving it just gets worse.  Total scam for poorly paid drivers.  You need no English language skills just a phone app.  So now you are not even using your English skills to compete. 
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 09, 2019, 02:12:23 AM
Trench here's your life plan:  you have no ties lucky you.  So choose your smallest bedroom in your house that's yours.  Paint clean and tidy like a demon and rent out all other rooms as bedrooms that includes your sitting room.  Once you have done that you have an income.  Then cheap flight to kiev and expedia to find cheap rooms as you travel around Ukraine.  Then stop trying to buy women and see what happens and where you end up.  Exactly what I did at 18. 
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 09, 2019, 07:01:31 AM
Trench here's your life plan:  you have no ties lucky you.  So choose your smallest bedroom in your house that's yours.  Paint clean and tidy like a demon and rent out all other rooms as bedrooms that includes your sitting room.  Once you have done that you have an income.  Then cheap flight to kiev and expedia to find cheap rooms as you travel around Ukraine.  Then stop trying to buy women and see what happens and where you end up.  Exactly what I did at 18.

Lol, that's almost my life plan completely :) I was explaining as such to members on here months ago. The only problem was is that my house is a one bed house. So over the last year or so I have been converting it to a three bed by doing all sorts of conversion work by myself which I pay for from my job. This should all be complete around August time this year. I have a small loan to pay for the laser eye surgery etc. That I should be able to do by next year.

So what you suggest I should be able to do next year if I don't find a girl this year. Ideally I would like to do it this year. So anyway once I let out the rooms in my house to Lodgers I can bring in about £500 a month after costs tax free.

As discussed in a previous thread that is not a way to live well in Ukraine etc but with some savings behind me it will be enough to get me around like you suggest. I think what you suggest is a good idea. Flying in & out for a week is not ideal in getting sufficient time to see women it is merely the only option if no other option due to need to keep job.

I think you're idea of moving around Ukraine getting cheap rooms is a good idea. At the end of the day I want to find a girl where there is genuine chemistry not put on attraction due to other reasons. I should be easily able to get work again from the company I am with on my return. I would have to pop back occasionally to make sure my mother is ok but I think it's doable. Like you say I have nothing really to lose at my point in life as nothing is really going anywhere fast. Many thanks for your suggestion James :)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: IvanMNG on March 09, 2019, 03:01:42 PM
It's something that has been weighing on my mind more and more over time. A girl could pick any guy online to continue correspondence with, video chat with, and finally meet only to find there is no chemistry. Similarly she could choose not to get into correspondence with a guy online perhaps even adding him to the ignore list but had they met there may have been amazing chemistry.

Even meeting many women a lot of women may  turn the opportunity down a guys invite to message online and so not be in the final 10, 15 or 20 girls you may meet. It could be if luck is not in your favour that all off the girls on a meet 10, 15, or 20 girls may have no chemistry with. Same could be true for a meet one.

So how do we make sense of internet dating? Say guys go for girls initially of photos and girls do the same. So some girls will put in for a girl and they will turn him down based off photo or perhaps some other reason. However, there might have been great chemistry there had they met. So does it make best sense to do internet dating websites or make better sense to try other methods such as going over there and using real meeting people situations instead?

Understand:

This is an art, not a science. As such, there are no hard rules and predictable outcomes. You can only maximize your chances of success.

To answer your question: how des a girl choose?

Many factors: her impression of you, her mood, what she had for lunch that day, if she just took a dump or still needs to go, whether her best friend has already called her that day...

In short. It's pointless to think about it because there are too many variables you cannot control. Focus on those that you can control: YOU.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 09, 2019, 03:03:29 PM
You forgot most important of all:  Bad hair day.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 09, 2019, 05:18:50 PM
Understand:

This is an art, not a science. As such, there are no hard rules and predictable outcomes. You can only maximize your chances of success.

To answer your question: how des a girl choose?

Many factors: her impression of you, her mood, what she had for lunch that day, if she just took a dump or still needs to go, whether her best friend has already called her that day...

In short. It's pointless to think about it because there are too many variables you cannot control. Focus on those that you can control: YOU.

I think you're right Ivan, I've tried to go about this the scientific way by going over the top on the process of recent based on what I have learnt from my previous experiences in FSU dating. However, although there is certainly a body of knowledge to be learned about FSU Dating, some from on here and some from experiences, it really does still seem to come down to apply that knowledge as I work through each dating prospect whether messaging or meet up rather than trying to filter out the common problem areas up front. Hence it's really like you say rather than trying to control the variables just focus on maximizing chances of success, ie by having more chances through meeting more women until or if I find the one.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 09, 2019, 05:44:13 PM
It's all a game of poker.  Some you win some you don't.  I think those that crash and burn like myself waste a lot of time researching future profing which can't be done.  Marriage is a game where the odds are you won't win this is 2019 not 1919.  This site has been great for getting me thinking.  The problem is for an Englishman to have a long relationship with an fsu  woman he must marry her and marriage destroys relationships due to influence feminism has had on marriage laws..
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 09, 2019, 05:52:19 PM
Yeah, it was so much better before women had the right to vote, and knew their place.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 09, 2019, 07:04:14 PM
It's all a game of poker.  Some you win some you don't.  I think those that crash and burn like myself waste a lot of time researching future profing which can't be done.  Marriage is a game where the odds are you won't win this is 2019 not 1919.  This site has been great for getting me thinking.  The problem is for an Englishman to have a long relationship with an fsu  woman he must marry her and marriage destroys relationships due to influence feminism has had on marriage laws..

Now this I do agree with, I do the same after a FSU dating meet/date that doesn't work out I try and future proof the process next time. It doesn't really work so much though I think instead it's more a case of gain the knowledge and store it in the subconscious to bring forth as you move through further meets/dates and in using the dating sites/messaging.

I think the problem is that marriage laws/relationships where there are children still stick it to the man in this country and allow the woman a controlling status that can be very destructive. i.e like Moby's wife weaponising his children against him and him losing out on their teenage years as a result, grossly unfair.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 09, 2019, 07:58:11 PM
So depressing to see guys having so much trouble with a particular gal when the solution is so simple . . . do a WMVM (starting with MANY, MANY) and just drop off any who give you any trouble or concerns.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 09, 2019, 08:34:47 PM
So depressing to see guys having so much trouble with a particular gal when the solution is so simple . . . do a WMVM (starting with MANY, MANY) and just drop off any who give you any trouble or concerns.

Problem comes with getting the MANY, MANY, unless you're Brad Pitt you simply won't get that many respond on online dating. The only place you where the apply to a thousand women approach as you suggest would be Moscow due to its enormous population, well over 12 Million. None of the other cities in the FSU have anywhere near that enormous population you would have to tour the country to match that outcome. The rest of what you say is sound I think though if course some women you only truely find out about much deeper into a relationship.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 10, 2019, 01:48:36 AM
Problem comes with getting the MANY, MANY, unless you're Brad Pitt you simply won't get that many respond on online dating. The only place you where the apply to a thousand women approach as you suggest would be Moscow due to its enormous population, well over 12 Million. None of the other cities in the FSU have anywhere near that enormous population you would have to tour the country to match that outcome. The rest of what you say is sound I think though if course some women you only truely find out about much deeper into a relationship.


Rubbish. Many have been here before you and done it. I don't look like Brad Pitt and I got more dates in Kiev than I had time for.


Your main problem is financial. I don't mean to sound patronising, but if you needed to take out a loan for laser eye surgery (a relatively minor and inexpensive procedure here in the UK), then you show you aren't able to prioritise financially or provide for a woman. First you need to find a lady, which in itself is not cheap, and then comes the cost of moving her over. As others here have told you countless times, you don't stand much of a chance.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 10, 2019, 05:15:05 AM
Trench you live in the south of England and you are converting a one bedroom house into a 3 bedroom house to rent out for £500 a month.  A one bedroom house would have rented out to a couple for £500 to 700.  Also unless you extended the property 3 into 1 does not go
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 10, 2019, 05:20:38 AM
Lyndon .  Kiev is probably the only place in ukraine you could meet many but surely you would do some fining down before you visited.  Surely you like one more than the others at the start.  Personally I could not keep them all separate in my mind.  The process is slightly immoral.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2019, 05:21:43 AM
Trench you live in the south of England and you are converting a one bedroom house into a 3 bedroom house to rent out for £500 a month.  A one bedroom house would have rented out to a couple for £500 to 700.  Also unless you extended the property 3 into 1 does not go

I'm extending outwards & upwards converting the loft.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2019, 05:37:17 AM

Rubbish. Many have been here before you and done it. I don't look like Brad Pitt and I got more dates in Kiev than I had time for.


Your main problem is financial. I don't mean to sound patronising, but if you needed to take out a loan for laser eye surgery (a relatively minor and inexpensive procedure here in the UK), then you show you aren't able to prioritise financially or provide for a woman. First you need to find a lady, which in itself is not cheap, and then comes the cost of moving her over. As others here have told you countless times, you don't stand much of a chance.

You can contact a lot of women but only so many will write back. Depending on how picky you are with the women you contact that will reduce the figure also. You can contact a lot of women in a place like Kiev and pick up a few dates probably moreso if you are on hand there and then, but the contact 1000 women doesn't really work there as trouble is finding 1000 women to contact which even if using several sites would be a problem. Many will be busy messaging other guys or more interested in looking at other guys. There is a lot of competition there from other WM.

The laser surgery I went for in the UK cost a bit as I didn't use the high street places. They are much cheaper but there are many bad reviews out there where they have stuffed up. My eyesight is precious time and I wasn't going to risk it to save a few hundred quid, that is better done elsewhere. I also had some other expenses on at the time so figured I can get a loan now and pay it off in a few months time.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 10, 2019, 07:47:32 AM
More Trench 'excuses'

Some of us are lucky and do not get no shows...

Yawn

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2019, 08:15:08 AM
More Trench 'excuses'

Some of us are lucky and do not get no shows...

Yawn

I've only had only one no show and that was in Lviv, it was a girl I hadn't messaged before going to Lviv so impromptu. What can I say, it happens.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Blighty on March 10, 2019, 08:55:02 AM
Many will be busy messaging other guys or more interested in looking at other guys. There is a lot of competition there from other WM.

But will they go to visit the women?

I know an Ukrainian woman (not my wife) who was very interested in an American guy, and thought that 'he' was 'the man' for her. They Skyped weekly, and he was sending her presents through the post. Naturally she eventually asked him to visit her. He refused, and so the virtual relationship ended.

The competition only exists if the other WM is willing to get on the plane!
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 10, 2019, 09:18:18 AM
Lyndon .  Kiev is probably the only place in ukraine you could meet many but surely you would do some fining down before you visited.  Surely you like one more than the others at the start.  Personally I could not keep them all separate in my mind.  The process is slightly immoral.


Nonesense. I've been in Kharkiv, Odessa, Sumy, Zaporozhye and Kiev (each multiple times) and only one visit was to meet one specific lady. Yes, Sumy was more difficult than Kiev - but there are interesting and available women everywhere. You can whittle down the list as much as you see fit, depending on how long you are staying in one place. Nothing immoral about it, you are only meeting a lady for coffee or wine to see if there is chemistry for a further meeting.


Agree with Mob, everything that doesn't go Trench's way leads to more feeble excuses.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2019, 09:48:37 AM

Nonesense. I've been in Kharkiv, Odessa, Sumy, Zaporozhye and Kiev (each multiple times) and only one visit was to meet one specific lady. Yes, Sumy was more difficult than Kiev - but there are interesting and available women everywhere. You can whittle down the list as much as you see fit, depending on how long you are staying in one place. Nothing immoral about it, you are only meeting a lady for coffee or wine to see if there is chemistry for a further meeting.


Agree with Mob, everything that doesn't go Trench's way leads to more feeble excuses.

You could indeed meet many outside of Kiev because you'll have less competition. Anywhere other than Kiev, Odessa & Kharkiv will have have a lot less other WM around particularly on the ground. However, how many will you bring up, how tight a criteria, and method of bring up women all come into play. Meet many could mean meeting any number of women from 2 upwards. You might decide to use a walk in agency or independent agent who could set up many dates, but how legit? What I'm saying is if you are after using ML's method of applying to 1000 down to 10 or 20 you are going to struggle outside of Moscow. Some cities such as Kiev you might manage it if you have little in the way of criteria, ie she can smoke, have 3 kids, be very young or old, looks ugly, etc but to have much in the way if criteria at all you'll need Moscow using ML's method or be prepared to travel far and wide.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 10, 2019, 10:08:31 AM
You could indeed meet many outside of Kiev because you'll have less competition. Anywhere other than Kiev, Odessa & Kharkiv will have have a lot less other WM around particularly on the ground. However, how many will you bring up, how tight a criteria, and method of bring up women all come into play. Meet many could mean meeting any number of women from 2 upwards. You might decide to use a walk in agency or independent agent who could set up many dates, but how legit? What I'm saying is if you are after using ML's method of applying to 1000 down to 10 or 20 you are going to struggle outside of Moscow. Some cities such as Kiev you might manage it if you have little in the way of criteria, ie she can smoke, have 3 kids, be very young or old, looks ugly, etc but to have much in the way if criteria at all you'll need Moscow using ML's method or be prepared to travel far and wide.


No, you won't. You're not getting it. Other people here have been and done it, time and time again. Do you think you're the only one who applies search criteria? So nobody ever did a WMVM in a City outside of Moscow?


Nobody starts with 1000 possible matches in one go. A combination of Ukrainedate, Elenasmodels, Mamba, Tinder, Bumble, fdating, local agencies, friends of friends, meeting people out and about and you don't think there are enough options?


Always an excuse or an illogical response for why something hasn't worked or won't work for you. You spend too much time theorising a lot about subjects you don't know much about.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 10, 2019, 11:05:04 AM
Lyndon .  I find fsu women escalate far faster than UK women so that you are in a virtual relationship before you even land in Ukraine.  I never ask or mention sex but all have started talking about our first sexual potential encounter.   With work commitments for me it's about 2 months between initial contact and visit.  In UK it would be a coffee or meal in the first week.  In fact I've found coffee is a disaster and meal is a winner.  So Lyndon I'm genuinely interested how do you keep the f s u women at bay the ones I meet just want me into their bed as soon  as possible.  I genuinely can't see how visit many works.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 10, 2019, 11:39:27 AM
Lyndon .  I find fsu women escalate far faster than UK women so that you are in a virtual relationship before you even land in Ukraine.  I never ask or mention sex but all have started talking about our first sexual potential encounter.   With work commitments for me it's about 2 months between initial contact and visit.  In UK it would be a coffee or meal in the first week.  In fact I've found coffee is a disaster and meal is a winner.  So Lyndon I'm genuinely interested how do you keep the f s u women at bay the ones I meet just want me into their bed as soon  as possible.  I genuinely can't see how visit many works.


I am not saying my way is necessarily the only way, but that depends on the level and length of interaction you have beforehand. I'm not going to start messaging 100 women in great detail 6 months before I plan a visit, that would be silly. If you're getting into sexual talk with women who are supposedly serious about a long-term relationship, you're either a) getting to know a woman in too much detail for a WMVM, b) choosing the wrong women or, c) our own British equivalent of Brad Pitt.


Once you're in town, you meet for a coffee and something will develop romantically and sexually if there is mutual chemistry. Everyone is different but if there is no chemistry I won't take her to bed for the sake of it and there wouldn't be any future dates without a good reason. So, it's not likely I'm going to have 50 dates lined up in Kiev and bed 50 different women. That's the reality. I'm sure ML will be able to give you a better play-by-play.


FWIW - my experience ranks Ukranian women lower than those from Latin America and South East Asia in being ones to want me in their bed quicker, so having to politely reject the advances of dozens of women in FSU isn't something I've had to do a lot of.  ;D
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 10, 2019, 12:20:20 PM
Surely everyone who is still looking for their FSU gal has read in detail and thought about the plan laid out in: Pursuing FSUW 101.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

I have followed that plan several times in several FSU cities and have always ended up with 10-15 gal to have first meetings with.  And I usually found 2-3 in each city who would have made a good wife for me and most any man.  Many (most) men here would have proposed during the first trip to these 2-3 (or more) gals.
But importantly, in virtually no instance was my beginning (pre-trip) number 1 gal in the final 2-3.
That suggests if I were on a WOVO trip, I probably would have ended up proposing to number 1, when interaction with more women made me realize the WOVO gal was not the best choice.
You can go down probably top 10 cities in either Russia or Ukraine and still find close to 1000 gals who meet your minimum criteria.

You don't use just one website, but rather virtually every website that is either free or has monthly subscription price for unlimited direct contact with all gals on the site.

The idea that WMVM is immoral is patently ridiculous AND the women are also doing it.
And both men and women do it within their own country.
Adding in travel to another country to do it, and suddenly it becomes immoral is beyond laughable.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2019, 12:46:44 PM
Lyndon, there's a difference between ML's WMVM and the WMVM method most of use.

When ML says to write 1000 women he means it as a short time situation. It's essentially merely to see what ones are interested as the ones that are reply the ones that aren't don't.

Of the ones that reply he chooses which ones he wishes to send a second letter, judging by their responses to his first letter, his interest in them, etc.

Those that are interested enough the guy to respond to the second letter are then likely quite interested in the guy. From their responses the field can be narrowed down again to around the 20 or whatever wished for.

The trip can then be planned as soon as possible to see all these women on a meet for each women. This strategy also allows for back ups from calling up those previously cut out unless they came across as basically unsuitable at all.

Note, it is standardised letters being used here, just the name changed at the top. Apart from meet up scheduling there is no real back and forth if individual emails like in VO strategy.

Most guys like me probably don't have a high reply rate and if there is there could be an unfortunate reason for it. There is stuff that can be done to boost reply rate both good and bad but in general to get the 1000 women or anywhere close Moscow is the only option. Unless as said you don't mind having no/little criteria or don't mind travelling to girls in different places or happen to look as good as a film star.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 10, 2019, 12:58:44 PM
Lyndon, there's a difference between ML's WMVM and the WMVM method most of use.

When ML says to write 1000 women he means it as a short time situation. It's essentially merely to see what ones are interested as the ones that are reply the ones that aren't don't.

Of the ones that reply he chooses which ones he wishes to send a second letter, judging by their responses to his first letter, his interest in them, etc.

Those that are interested enough the guy to respond to the second letter are then likely quite interested in the guy. From their responses the field can be narrowed down again to around the 20 or whatever wished for.

The trip can then be planned as soon as possible to see all these women on a meet for each women. This strategy also allows for back ups from calling up those previously cut out unless they came across as basically unsuitable at all.

Note, it is standardised letters being used here, just the name changed at the top. Apart from meet up scheduling there is no real back and forth if individual emails like in VO strategy.

Most guys like me probably don't have a high reply rate and if there is there could be an unfortunate reason for it. There is stuff that can be done to boost reply rate both good and bad but in general to get the 1000 women or anywhere close Moscow is the only option. Unless as said you don't mind having no/little criteria or don't mind travelling to girls in different places or happen to look as good as a film star.


The concept is the same. The results depend on the specific methodology pre-visit and during visit. None of us here look like film stars.


ML has just spelt it out for you. Tweak as one sees fit. What aren't you getting?
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 10, 2019, 01:51:17 PM
Skim read MLs post.  Luckily it states its ok to be a visit one type of guy as well as a many visit guy.  So i'll just stick to what I like.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 10, 2019, 02:25:40 PM
Skim read MLs post.  Luckily it states its ok to be a visit one type of guy as well as a many visit guy.  So i'll just stick to what I like.

If you do a visit one then you need a back up plan.

I went to Voronezh Russia and met a tall beautiful Russian girl and it didn't work out.
I met my wife Angel Eyes using my back up plan.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: jone on March 10, 2019, 02:28:07 PM
If you do a visit one then you need a back up plan.

I went to Voronezh Russia and met a tall beautiful Russian girl and it didn't work out.
I met my wife Angel Eyes using my back up plan.

Were you her backup plan, too?
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2019, 03:51:03 PM

The concept is the same. The results depend on the specific methodology pre-visit and during visit. None of us here look like film stars.


ML has just spelt it out for you. Tweak as one sees fit. What aren't you getting?

The concept is not the same. Most WMVM would be more responsive to replies to email since you couldn't afford to send an email back where she might start to suspect it's a spam email and ask 'Am I really that bothered with this guy'. If girls start dropping out/losing interest you're heading back to VO as you'll start to see the girl that gives the most interested as the only option.

ML says to apply to 1000 for a reason, he has personally used this technique and states there were at least 3 or more girls that he could have married. The reason I believe is to get up the most girls that are serious and interested in you. Now that won't always translate to chemistry on the ground but for some it will. As others have often said there are many ways around this whole FSU Dating stuff.

I'm not saying go do it, I'm saying it is another way at WMVM that ML has come up with. I just state that it is only likely to work in Moscow realistically speaking.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 10, 2019, 04:02:26 PM
Lyndon .  I find fsu women escalate far faster than UK women so that you are in a virtual relationship before you even land in Ukraine.  I never ask or mention sex but all have started talking about our first sexual potential encounter.


You're 45 years old and you still don't see that this is about the position those women are in, and therefore, they are using something with which to manipulate you?


You are either a bad hunter, or need a few deer to teach you how to hunt.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 10, 2019, 04:05:23 PM
The concept is not the same. Most WMVM would be more responsive to replies to email since you couldn't afford to send an email back where she might start to suspect it's a spam email and ask 'Am I really that bothered with this guy'. If girls start dropping out/losing interest you're heading back to VO as you'll start to see the girl that gives the most interested as the only option.

ML says to apply to 1000 for a reason, he has personally used this technique and states there were at least 3 or more girls that he could have married. The reason I believe is to get up the most girls that are serious and interested in you. Now that won't always translate to chemistry on the ground but for some it will. As others have often said there are many ways around this whole FSU Dating stuff.

I'm not saying go do it, I'm saying it is another way at WMVM that ML has come up with. I just state that it is only likely to work in Moscow realistically speaking.


Again, you're over-thinking it. Your problem is simple - you're worried you don't/won't/can't get enough replies. For that you need to:


1) Write to more women
2) Improve your online profiles
3) Improve your approaches to women
4) Lower your expectations and search criteria
5) Accept that for XYZ reasons you aren't that popular with women online


The concept of a WMVM is the same. 100 or 1000 emails, it doesn't change the strategy. It's simple. That's why we differentiate between a WMVM or a WOVO.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 10, 2019, 04:09:05 PM
Skim read MLs post.  Luckily it states its ok to be a visit one type of guy as well as a many visit guy.  So i'll just stick to what I like.


Of course you can be a WOVO guy. There isn't a law. The problem that you James will have is that you continue to WOVO but choose the wrong sort.


You say you like your mini-relationships, which is fine, but that's what they'll continue to be, and you'll continue to be regarded by many as a sex tourist, even if it is only to one woman at a time.


Where your strategy will fall down - if you are serious about finding one long-term partner - is if like most here you don't have unlimited time or money, which are both precious commodities in this search.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 04:32:10 PM
Lyndon .  I find fsu women escalate far faster than UK women so that you are in a virtual relationship before you even land in Ukraine.  I never ask or mention sex but all have started talking about our first sexual potential encounter.   With work commitments for me it's about 2 months between initial contact and visit.  In UK it would be a coffee or meal in the first week.  In fact I've found coffee is a disaster and meal is a winner.  So Lyndon I'm genuinely interested how do you keep the f s u women at bay the ones I meet just want me into their bed as soon  as possible.  I genuinely can't see how visit many works.
Excuse me Trench. What you wrote raised a orange or red flag for me. I have dated more than 60 FSU women (with possible second dates / girlfriends / sex ... from  Belarus Russia Ukraine) and i had had many virtual contacts (from paid sites free sites agencies ....) but NEVER and i say NEVER a girl started to talk about sex by herself before a meeting, and morever before i f.... her.
It never happened. And the first FSU i dated it was in 2007/2008 in my country.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: JayH on March 10, 2019, 04:41:41 PM
Excuse me Trench. What you wrote raised a orange or red flag for me. I have dated more than 60 FSU women (with possible second dates / girlfriends / sex ... from  Belarus Russia Ukraine) and i had had many virtual contacts (from paid sites free sites agencies ....) but NEVER and i say NEVER a girl started to talk about sex by herself before a meeting, and morever before i f.... her.
It never happened. And the first FSU i dated it was in 2007/2008 in my country.

Ditto -- on every point.  :clapping:
For me -- it is crass  and lacks dignity and is a totally unnecessary conversation  .  :cluebat:
Basically -- a guy doing it joins the ranks of the internet clueless who needs to get his "kicks" that way -- and most likely- will never actually show up !  Guys  who ask to see tits-- who ask if a girl will have sex if he shows up -- all = cretins.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 04:46:40 PM
Ditto -- on every point.  :clapping:
For me -- it is crass  and lacks dignity and is a totally unnecessary conversation  .  :cluebat:
Basically -- a guy doing it joins the ranks of the internet clueless who needs to get his "kicks" that way -- and most likely- will never actually show up !  Guys  who ask to see tits-- who ask if a girl will have sex if he shows up -- all = cretins.
:applaud: Guys, never show you photos half naked, never ask her to be naked, never ask her if she likes sex (what a stupid question), how many partners she had, what position she likes and such s.....
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2019, 04:49:20 PM
Excuse me Trench. What you wrote raised a orange or red flag for me. I have dated more than 60 FSU women (with possible second dates / girlfriends / sex ... from  Belarus Russia Ukraine) and i had had many virtual contacts (from paid sites free sites agencies ....) but NEVER and i say NEVER a girl started to talk about sex by herself before a meeting, and morever before i f.... her.
It never happened. And the first FSU i dated it was in 2007/2008 in my country.

You mean James ;)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2019, 04:59:33 PM

You're 45 years old and you still don't see that this is about the position those women are in, and therefore, they are using something with which to manipulate you?


You are either a bad hunter, or need a few deer to teach you how to hunt.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Not sure but think James might be in his early fifties.

I tend to agree with you though Boethius. If any sort of offering is made up front then the only thing for these girls to offer in return is themselves.

I have never deliberately gone down the route of offering women such. I have never asked about a girls sex life before meeting or at the start of meeting. I do wonder that I might inadvertently allured to offering Kherson girl stuff or maybe she had that on her mind already, idk, but I never had the intention of seeking such.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 05:00:37 PM
Raising a sexual tension, it has never to be named, it has only to be a metaphore, an idea. It is something very subtle when the lady starts to imagine that you are going to meet, that you are going to touch each other, and this idea becomes her, and so she cannot at the end figure out if it was coming from you.
In fact it comes from the nature, the logical way of the world which leads naturally a man and a woman who feel an attraction to land in a bed. THis is irrestible, this is naturel.
Have i spoke about sex, vagina, dick ? No. Never. That's vulgar. It largely carries on that the lady is EASY.Women HATE men who believe they are easy.

repeat after me :
Women HATE men who believe they are easy.Women HATE men who believe they are easy.
Women HATE men who believe they are easy. Women HATE men who believe they are easy.Women HATE men who believe they are easy.
why? it makes them low value, and a large part of their princely kingdom, so important for them, is their value. This their world of reference, Their world, not your men. But that is what is worthly to consider.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 05:01:45 PM
You mean James ;)
sorry, lets say James so  :D
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2019, 05:13:36 PM
sorry, lets say James so  :D

I'll let you off ;D
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 10, 2019, 06:12:17 PM
To Pat and others.
I have some disagreement, but depends on how 'talking about sex' is defined.

I also never talked about size of my equipment, asked to see her breasts, asked what positions she liked, etc., etc.

But I still got many women to indicate their interest in sex with me.

My tactic was very low key.

e.g. Sign off my 2nd or third message (this was back in the e-mail only era) with . . . 'kiss to your left cheek.'
Sign off next message . . . 'kiss to your right cheek.'
Next message . . .  'kiss to your neck.'

Not one woman ever told me that they didn't like this in my message, even as they never responded in kind.
But several picked up on it and started signing off with . . . 'kiss to you also, etc.'
Others got even more forward and said: 'I wonder where your next kiss will be on my body.'

Result . . . by the time I was arriving in country I knew that it was a virtual certainty that there would be sex with X number of women . . . even as I never mentioned the word sex or anything close to it.

And I did and still do rate those women as top flight, intelligent, professional grade women.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that the higher the grade of the woman, the more educated,  and the more confidence she had in herself, the more likely it was that there would be sex.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 12, 2019, 02:02:02 PM
Were you her backup plan, too?

I don't try to understand why women like me or even why they like
men in general since it doesn't make sense to me. I found her so I
doubt that I was part of her plans at all until I convinced her to meet 
me for tea. 

Once she met me she surely fell head over heels for me because after
all she's only human.

My back up plan was to meet other girls if things didn't work out. So
Angel Eyes had no idea that I existed until I sent her that first message.


Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 12, 2019, 02:13:56 PM
I believe WMVM is daft....not immoral..based on MY preferences...not wanting to go a long way and have a 'blind' date...

Of course sex came up before we met and would we stay in the saame place?, etc.

One simply cannot achieve that with a VM...

NO back up plan(s) were needed...







Title: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 12, 2019, 02:22:02 PM
but NEVER and i say NEVER a girl started to talk about sex by herself before a meeting, and morever before i f.... her.
It never happened. And the first FSU i dated it was in 2007/2008 in my country.

Pat,

I have a hundred times better social skills than Trench does, but for my WOVO trips
I talked to most of them 90%+ about sex before I met them in person. Trench would
screw it up and sound weird but I can do with them laughing and smiling the entire time.
I will expand on this later, I must go on an errand with Angel Eyes and mini me

On my WMVM trips of course I didn't.

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2019, 03:54:08 PM
I brlieve WMVM is daft....not immoral..based on MY preferences...not wanting to go a long way and have a 'blind' date...

Of course sex came up and would we stay in the saame place, etc.

One simply cannot achieve that with a VM...

NO back up plan(s) were needed...

The worst part of VM is not knowing beforehand whether she may be an insincere girl of the worst kind. That can be established during the meet usually unless she is particularly clandestine about it. Most show their true colours soon enough out that way. So once you've met a few FSW it's usually easier to weigh other ones up. The women probably have the same misgivings before meeting the guy so some may flake.

The best part of VM is that you get a surprise when you meet the girl in person for the first time. Particularly if you have not messaged each other much before. Every girl is different and a unique experience whether good or bad is still an interesting time to be had.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2019, 03:55:59 PM
Pat,

I have a hundred times better social skills than Trench does

+100 to that ;D
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 12, 2019, 04:26:25 PM
Surely everyone who is still looking for their FSU gal has read in detail and thought about the plan laid out in: Pursuing FSUW 101.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0)

I have followed that plan several times in several FSU cities and have always ended up with 10-15 gal to have first meetings with.  And I usually found 2-3 in each city who would have made a good wife for me and most any man.  Many (most) men here would have proposed during the first trip to these 2-3 (or more) gals.
But importantly, in virtually no instance was my beginning (pre-trip) number 1 gal in the final 2-3.
That suggests if I were on a WOVO trip, I probably would have ended up proposing to number 1, when interaction with more women made me realize the WOVO gal was not the best choice.
You can go down probably top 10 cities in either Russia or Ukraine and still find close to 1000 gals who meet your minimum criteria.

You don't use just one website, but rather virtually every website that is either free or has monthly subscription price for unlimited direct contact with all gals on the site.

The idea that WMVM is immoral is patently ridiculous AND the women are also doing it.
And both men and women do it within their own country.
Adding in travel to another country to do it, and suddenly it becomes immoral is beyond laughable.
+2
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 12, 2019, 04:30:25 PM
Were you her backup plan, too?
:D
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 12, 2019, 04:35:19 PM
To Pat and others.
I have some disagreement, but depends on how 'talking about sex' is defined.

I also never talked about size of my equipment, asked to see her breasts, asked what positions she liked, etc., etc.

But I still got many women to indicate their interest in sex with me.

My tactic was very low key.

e.g. Sign off my 2nd or third message (this was back in the e-mail only era) with . . . 'kiss to your left cheek.'
Sign off next message . . . 'kiss to your right cheek.'
Next message . . .  'kiss to your neck.'

Not one woman ever told me that they didn't like this in my message, even as they never responded in kind.
But several picked up on it and started signing off with . . . 'kiss to you also, etc.'
Others got even more forward and said: 'I wonder where your next kiss will be on my body.'

Result . . . by the time I was arriving in country I knew that it was a virtual certainty that there would be sex with X number of women . . . even as I never mentioned the word sex or anything close to it.

And I did and still do rate those women as top flight, intelligent, professional grade women.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that the higher the grade of the woman, the more educated,  and the more confidence she had in herself, the more likely it was that there would be sex.
We don't have a major disagreement ML, you use what i would call "indirect references", a little upfront but that is this type of i wanted to talk about, you gave an example, interesting.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 12, 2019, 04:54:40 PM
Pat,

I have a hundred times better social skills than Trench does, but for my WOVO trips
I talked to most of them 90%+ about sex before I met them in person. Trench would
screw it up and sound weird but I can do with them laughing and smiling the entire time.
I will expand on this later, I must go on an errand with Angel Eyes and mini me

On my WMVM trips of course I didn't.
Happy for you, but you have to raise a level of comfort to bring this. But most guys don't have any connections (or they believe they have one but they don't) and they bring this crude to the lady thinking first about how their pole could be satisfied and two this will arouse her.

Example could be used with minimum of connection with a girl (half hour) :My garage gave me a second car to use, this car is a wreck. So if the lady comes with you you can say.
Oh the garage gave me this old car sorry. Entering in the car together. It's dirty and your seat is almost broken and itbarely cannot move. Smiling and enjoying your joke, this is the type of car where it's impossible to make love or you land in the emergencies, the neck broken, the back broken. Now it's time to see if she enjoys and play the game.So if she looks ok you continue :"you know as the windshield is already cracked i think it's possible to get more space by broking it definively. May you try with your shoe please ?" and so on, write the following sentences.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 12, 2019, 05:57:56 PM
The worst part of VM is not knowing beforehand whether she may be an insincere girl of the worst kind. That can be established during the meet usually unless she is particularly clandestine about it. Most show their true colours soon enough out that way. So once you've met a few FSW it's usually easier to weigh other ones up. The women probably have the same misgivings before meeting the guy so some may flake.

Trench ...once again writing as if he has had a LTR with a FSU lass..Why are you posting as if you are some authority on the subject..?
The best part of VM is that you get a surprise when you meet the girl in person for the first time. Particularly if you have not messaged each other much before. Every girl is different and a unique experience whether good or bad is still an interesting time to be had.

So, we are back to recommending Blind dates? ...Why travel to meet a stranger?

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 13, 2019, 02:29:35 AM
So, we are back to recommending Blind dates? ...Why travel to meet a stranger?


Well Mob, now you bring it up...I think Trench is worried that with a WMVM he isn't able to encourage sufficient number of replies from women. If I plan a WM, I don't like to get to know the women too much simply to avoid wasting unnecessary time and energy beforehand.


Something I did when I had lots of time in Kiev was to use a website agency to simply arrange dates for me with women who fit the criteria and I was attracted to from their photos. No PPL or correspondence beforehand. For a few hundred quid, I was able to be lazy and kill some time by lining up dates with 6-10 women I would in all likelihood be attracted to, all in addition to meeting ladies via the mainstream ways.


Now, out of those ladies 5 would probably be there because the agency had paid them and were scammers. Three probably were not interested in me, or I was not interested in, or didn't look much like their old, air-brushed photos. But, there's always a chance that 1 or 2 would be very good matches and seemed like genuine women to pursue further. 


Historically I had chosen women I simply thought were 9 or 10's on the scale, even if they needed a terp, wanted to go to a fancy restaurant and even if they were in their teens. Lesson learnt. You can still control the variables. The older the lady, the less attractive, if she has children, etc are all likely to make her more serious, genuine and attainable. However, what you develop are one or two feasible options. In addition, you can meet some genuine interpreters who can steer you away from bad apples and help you out in the future. Occasionally there would be a woman I thought was incredible, but did not respond to messages or made excuses not to meet again - you have to be strong to that element of it. The rest I could take for what it was.


True story...In a different City I met one lady, several years ago now, who had asked to use a terp. She was extremely attractive, but because of the language issue and her shyness in the meeting, I didn't see it going anywhere. Not long after I had returned home, the lady contacted me directly to apologise for using the interpreter. She hadn't felt confident using her English, but said that during our initial meeting she had understood enough and been practising enough to feel like we could meet again alone. I had left Ukraine by that time, but we continue to stay in touch as friends several years later and it is interesting to see how her successful career and life have taken off via social media. She is one I do occasionally think 'what if?' or still maybe in the future...


Yes, there is a 'scam' element to it that you need to be wary of. Getting burnt by an agency is an inevitability if you use one but one you can minimise. I am categorically not advocating this as a stand-alone strategy. We can debate the history of Pat's ex-Mrs and why she changed; maybe or maybe not she was pre-disposed to what she did. Besides, I think Trench is too stingy to throw a few quid at this idea and is too distrusting of women and agencies in general to form a relationship this way. But, amongst these women you might find a hidden gem - you might just need to kiss a few frogs to find a princess.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 13, 2019, 06:05:33 AM
Trench ...once again writing as if he has had a LTR with a FSU lass..Why are you posting as if you are some authority on the subject..?
So, we are back to recommending Blind dates? ...Why travel to meet a stranger?

I'm just giving my opinion of what I have found Mobers. WMVM is not without its negatives, but these aren't that bad if you can get a WMVM sorted. A WMVO is good for a newbie as I did when I started as it's not a lot all at once and the girl kind of acts as an introducer to the FSU dating scene, hopefully in a good way and the FSU itself, kind of like a tour guide.

I would say to your questions, why not travel to meet a stranger? As 2tallbill points out his Angel Eyes was a stranger to him until he called her up.

Mainly I would say even meeting a VO girl for real that you have Skyped with and messaged a lot you still start as if you are strangers when you meet. Sat at the computer screen you just don't get that sort of real life walking around thing with her. Mobile Skype is possible and interesting but still not quite the same. Then there is the issue of chemistry, sure some guys get lucky and get chemistry with a VO first time but most of us don't. Chemistry can only really be found out on arrival. So why put all your eggs in one basket? VM and have many cracks at it on one trip rather than the expensiveness of meeting one girl at a time on each journey. Even for us Brits you're talking £1k a time or near enough even for quick weekends as most of the cost is in the travelling not so much the accommodation.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 13, 2019, 06:11:48 AM

Well Mob, now you bring it up...I think Trench is worried that with a WMVM he isn't able to encourage sufficient number of replies from women. If I plan a WM, I don't like to get to know the women too much simply to avoid wasting unnecessary time and energy beforehand.


Something I did when I had lots of time in Kiev was to use a website agency to simply arrange dates for me with women who fit the criteria and I was attracted to from their photos. No PPL or correspondence beforehand. For a few hundred quid, I was able to be lazy and kill some time by lining up dates with 6-10 women I would in all likelihood be attracted to, all in addition to meeting ladies via the mainstream ways.


Now, out of those ladies 5 would probably be there because the agency had paid them and were scammers. Three probably were not interested in me, or I was not interested in, or didn't look much like their old, air-brushed photos. But, there's always a chance that 1 or 2 would be very good matches and seemed like genuine women to pursue further. 


Historically I had chosen women I simply thought were 9 or 10's on the scale, even if they needed a terp, wanted to go to a fancy restaurant and even if they were in their teens. Lesson learnt. You can still control the variables. The older the lady, the less attractive, if she has children, etc are all likely to make her more serious, genuine and attainable. However, what you develop are one or two feasible options. In addition, you can meet some genuine interpreters who can steer you away from bad apples and help you out in the future. Occasionally there would be a woman I thought was incredible, but did not respond to messages or made excuses not to meet again - you have to be strong to that element of it. The rest I could take for what it was.


True story...In a different City I met one lady, several years ago now, who had asked to use a terp. She was extremely attractive, but because of the language issue and her shyness in the meeting, I didn't see it going anywhere. Not long after I had returned home, the lady contacted me directly to apologise for using the interpreter. She hadn't felt confident using her English, but said that during our initial meeting she had understood enough and been practising enough to feel like we could meet again alone. I had left Ukraine by that time, but we continue to stay in touch as friends several years later and it is interesting to see how her successful career and life have taken off via social media. She is one I do occasionally think 'what if?' or still maybe in the future...


Yes, there is a 'scam' element to it that you need to be wary of. Getting burnt by an agency is an inevitability if you use one but one you can minimise. I am categorically not advocating this as a stand-alone strategy. We can debate the history of Pat's ex-Mrs and why she changed; maybe or maybe not she was pre-disposed to what she did. Besides, I think Trench is too stingy to throw a few quid at this idea and is too distrusting of women and agencies in general to form a relationship this way. But, amongst these women you might find a hidden gem - you might just need to kiss a few frogs to find a princess.

Thanks Lyndon, that is all true, I have been struggling to get the number of girls per a city I want to visit. I think I have found a way to up that a little now. I see your point with the agency girls but I would have to have a lot of time on my hands to kill to want to do that as like you say only 1 or 2 might be legit. If I can bring up girls online or even on the street that would probably be better as I get more legit girls to see, theoretically. I think we all take a good few years to get the hang of this FSU dating scene, an odd few get lucky early on but I think for most it's a bit of a journey. I'm guessing you've been looking longer than the 1-2 years as in your profile status ;)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 13, 2019, 10:05:41 AM
I think we all take a good few years to get the hang of this FSU dating scene, an odd few get lucky early on but I think for most it's a bit of a journey.

I guess I was lucky or some such regarding 'getting the hang of FSU dating scene.'

Even surprised myself.

Background:  I had been married for a long, long, long time, so hadn't been in the dating scene anywhere since I was a late teenager.

I was quite concerned about how it would go.

As it turned out . . . there was absolutely zero transition time for me.

Reasons (I think):

In my professional finance/consulting career, I had been in constant close contact with hundreds of top flight women (men also, of course).

I had no trouble in talking with any woman (well of course there were some absolute bitches that I avoided where possible), joking with them, discussing some of their personal life including their love and sexual life (when they initiated such), etc., etc.

This same interaction with top flight business women continued when I began business visits to FSU in 1999.  (Note: Almost all my interactions with business persons in FSU were with those who had adequate English skills.  Any interpreters needed were employed at their expense.  This was because the USA firms I represented had what they wanted!!  The Golden Rule: Those who have the Gold make the rules).

Thus, when I started the dating scene in FSU, there was no 'getting the hang' of it.
It was just like going to a business meeting with a woman . . . except for what we mostly discussed and where we each wanted it to lead.

Final note:  I have virtually zero experience dating in USA.  I went straight for FSU because I rightly assumed I would be able to trade-up there in terms of the factors I wanted in a woman compared to what I could achieve in USA.  The same quality women were here in USA, but in much shorter supply  compared to demand, and I could not aspire to them because of age gap, attractiveness gap AND . . .  lack of an Economic Gap.

Actually there are some Economic Gap women available in USA, but those who are educated (yet in low paying professions, school teachers, social workers, etc.) are extreme left wingers.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 13, 2019, 10:59:49 AM
I'm guessing you've been looking longer than the 1-2 years as in your profile status ;)


I made my first trip to Kiev in 2011 and naturally it piqued my interest in FSU and FSU women and I've visited a lot since. However, I haven't followed a sustained period of 'looking'. In that time I've also extensively dated and been in relationships with women domestically and during travel in SEA and Latin America. It just so happens that Ryanair will start low-cost flights next month to Kiev from Manchester, so Ukraine is flavour of the month for me again at the present time.
Title: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 13, 2019, 01:31:11 PM
So, we are back to recommending Blind dates? ...Why travel to meet a stranger?

Moby,

Everybody is not the same. Some people would prefer to lay eyes on somebody and
banter with them first to see if they have mutual chemistry instead of wasting a bunch
of time exchanging flowery letters.

You will say that exchanging letters is not a waste of time and for you it would be correct.
Others however don't do as well in that environment. Insisting that everyone is you isn't
realistic. Thank the Lord that everyone isn't Moby!

I've made many trips after I've spent a long time getting to know them and when I arrived
it didn't work out. Just because this didn't ever happen to you is an oddity. That is what
happens 90% of the time. However, it didn't happen to you so everyone must do as you
do or they are posting daft.

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 13, 2019, 02:21:43 PM
Some people would prefer to lay eyes on somebody and
banter with them first to see if they have mutual chemistry instead of wasting a bunch
of time exchanging flowery letters.

As you stated...we are not all the same and I believe in directness..Are you suggesting my WOVOs were accompanied with engagement rings?


You will say that exchanging letters is not a waste of time and for you it would be correct.
Others however don't do as well in that environment. Insisting that everyone is you isn't
realistic. Thank the Lord that everyone isn't Moby! 

I questioned the tactics of Trench.. specifically..do keep up


I've made many trips after I've spent a long time getting to know them and when I arrived
it didn't work out. Just because this didn't ever happen to you is an oddity. That is what
happens 90% of the time. However, it didn't happen to you so everyone must do as you
do or they are posting daft.

In this day and age indeed there is little excuse for two willing parties to get to know each other..other than how they smell and look like without clothes..so YES...your statement IS daft




Title: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 13, 2019, 03:23:08 PM
VM strategy (visit many) is traveling to a target rich environment and meeting a bunch
of girls for coffee or tea and seeing if they have chemistry or not FIRST rather than last.
If you don't have mutual attraction you never see the girl again. If you don't like her smell,
her smoking even though she listed herself as a non smoker in her profile or anything else
you don't need to ever write a dozen letters to find out if you like the same things because
she is kicked to the curb.

If you aren't a good judge of character and if you can't make a decision then you should
not use the Visit Many strategy, because you need to decide whether a girl what it takes
based on a meeting in person over coffee. I can make that decision but some need time
to think and process, if you are the think and process guy then you need to visit one.

A VO strategy (visit one) is doing all the sorting while you are home. You can think of
things to delve into for a day and then spend an hour formulating a question or a comment.
Obviously you can't do that on the fly during a VM meeting. With a VO strategy you narrow
it down to the best girl and then go see her.

VO is high risk and it's high reward. If you are able to narrow it down to a great girl and when
you meet you hit if off, then you are a hundred miles ahead of the game. You have just spent
a lot of quality time with a great girl.

VM is low risk and low reward. You might meet 10 girls before you find an excellent match and
then how much time can you spend with them? How much time can they spend with you? You
are going to have to keep them interested while you are preparing for your next trip. Are you a
super shy type? This strategy is probably not the one for you.

Both these stratagems have advantages and weakness and it varies with what you are comfortable
with and your personality. I can go and meet 15 girls and make an assessment while meeting her 
and decide whether I will ever ask her out again in a few minutes. I can also make her laugh and
want to see me again as well.

So in my opinion each guy has to determine which strategy works best for him.

Udachi!

Bill
Title: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 13, 2019, 03:26:22 PM
In this day and age indeed there is little excuse for two willing parties to get to know each
other..other than how they smell and look like without clothes..so YES...your statement IS daft

Yet in my estimation 75% of this board went on a first trip and were unsuccessful with that
girl. Are they all daft?

I set up a poll, it can be found here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=23543.0
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 13, 2019, 03:35:51 PM
Moby,

Everybody is not the same. Some people would prefer to lay eyes on somebody and
banter with them first to see if they have mutual chemistry instead of wasting a bunch
of time exchanging flowery letters.

You will say that exchanging letters is not a waste of time and for you it would be correct.
Others however don't do as well in that environment. Insisting that everyone is you isn't
realistic. Thank the Lord that everyone isn't Moby!

I've made many trips after I've spent a long time getting to know them and when I arrived
it didn't work out. Just because this didn't ever happen to you is an oddity. That is what
happens 90% of the time. However, it didn't happen to you so everyone must do as you
do or they are posting daft.

That's exactly it, 90 percent of the time roughly for most people they don't meet a girl with chemistry. I got fed up of all the messages back and forth then disappointment at the end of it. Yes I still had a good time in most instances but it's not what I was really hoping for.

Nightwish told us he met with a girl there was chemistry with after roughly 25 VO visits I think it was. If we're talking £1k a visit then that is somewhere in the direction of £25k spent for an English guy. He might have spent less as Scandinavia is a bit closer, etc.

I don't know if Moby got lucky, just looking for a companion this time, waved his was or just used he's moany old temperament to get to the one. Like you say though bill even if it worked for him many others seem to not be able to accomplish the same. Perhaps he should become a Dating Agent if he's method is so successful :)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Nightwish on March 13, 2019, 05:00:35 PM
That's exactly it, 90 percent of the time roughly for most people they don't meet a girl with chemistry. I got fed up of all the messages back and forth then disappointment at the end of it. Yes I still had a good time in most instances but it's not what I was really hoping for.

Nightwish told us he met with a girl there was chemistry with after roughly 25 VO visits I think it was. If we're talking £1k a visit then that is somewhere in the direction of £25k spent for an English guy. He might have spent less as Scandinavia is a bit closer, etc.

I don't know if Moby got lucky, just looking for a companion this time, waved his was or just used he's moany old temperament to get to the one. Like you say though bill even if it worked for him many others seem to not be able to accomplish the same. Perhaps he should become a Dating Agent if he's method is so successful :)

no, no - you got that all wrong

With my first VO everything was only wrong, she spoke no English, very VERY shy, almost 34 years old and a virgin, never dated a man since young teen and never had a relationship. She had a relative (aunt) who knew English and was the one pushing her to date a foreigner and also did all the translating (no fee)
Chemistry, well a very small amount but she was not ready to meet any man, much less someone who didn't speak her language. We are still talking sometimes, and she never went on another date and lives with her parents in a small village outside Kherson.

Second time I went over I ended up in a relationship for 6 months, there was instant chemistry after almost a month skyping every day and I really thought I nailed it, she had a child - father was absent - father got word about me and started demanding money to "release" his child - girl broke it up with me because she did not want to put me in that situation - when I am thinking back now, I would have paid if it had come down to it, she just never gave me that chance.

After that I made both VO and VM visits and combined ones - VO with backup plan VM.
I would say there was almost never a lack of chemistry - well I DID have a few of those dates also of course - but the ones I visited VO was almost always with due diligence before, I did a few exceptions when I just talked to them for maybe a week before getting on the plane.

So chemistry yes - but other factors that also played was a bigger cause to "failure".
 
but then I never called any of my dates a failure, I had a good time, met interesting people, got to see a lot of Ukraine, many interesting places, going on adventures and just had a good short vacation with often a beautiful lady as company. Who can call that a failure..
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: JayH on March 13, 2019, 05:19:55 PM

but then I never called any of my dates a failure, I had a good time, met interesting people, got to see a lot of Ukraine, many interesting places, going on adventures and just had a good short vacation with often a beautiful lady as company. Who can call that a failure..

And right there is what I consider the major key --every minute is part of the process of learning and assessing  and the experiences in the process.
What all of Nightwish's posts have shown is respect -- that is RESPECT . Again today --there it is .Respect for women,Ukraine and the whole situation .
At no stage is he or has he expressed a "'superior" attitude or that he was "owed" anything at all .
Of note particularly --he did not rush into a relationship  .

I am at odds with those that think the major part is done before arrival -- all that preliminary time is to set up meeting suitable likely possibilities -- then time on the ground in real life meeting . Sometimes that can be less than 5 minutes to know if you want to continue- sometimes weeks. But -- every connection-be that electronic or real life is part of the process  and should not be seen as a failure as such.
The odds of the one week wonder and then get married being sensible in the long run is a ? . Sure --it is possible -- but reality says the odds are long.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 13, 2019, 05:34:50 PM


This is Beel's opinion and certainly not my experience

 

VO is high risk and it's high reward. [

Actually, I found it is very LOW risk ..


VM is low risk and low reward.

Waste of time and effort and stressful.  Might as well go speed dating))

Both these stratagems have advantages and weakness and it varies with what you are comfortable
with and your personality. I can go and meet 15 girls and make an assessment while meeting her 
and decide whether I will ever ask her out again in a few minutes. I can also make her laugh and
want to see me again as well.

Trench does not have those social skills..period..

So in my opinion each guy has to determine which strategy works best for him.

Udachi!

Bill

So why write like WMVM is the route to go?

In Trench's case he needs to change his attitude first.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 14, 2019, 03:28:56 AM
VM strategy (visit many) is traveling to a target rich environment and meeting a bunch
of girls for coffee or tea and seeing if they have chemistry or not FIRST rather than last.
If you don't have mutual attraction you never see the girl again. If you don't like her smell,
her smoking even though she listed herself as a non smoker in her profile or anything else
you don't need to ever write a dozen letters to find out if you like the same things because
she is kicked to the curb.

If you aren't a good judge of character and if you can't make a decision then you should
not use the Visit Many strategy, because you need to decide whether a girl what it takes
based on a meeting in person over coffee. I can make that decision but some need time
to think and process, if you are the think and process guy then you need to visit one.

A VO strategy (visit one) is doing all the sorting while you are home. You can think of
things to delve into for a day and then spend an hour formulating a question or a comment.
Obviously you can't do that on the fly during a VM meeting. With a VO strategy you narrow
it down to the best girl and then go see her.

VO is high risk and it's high reward. If you are able to narrow it down to a great girl and when
you meet you hit if off, then you are a hundred miles ahead of the game. You have just spent
a lot of quality time with a great girl.

VM is low risk and low reward. You might meet 10 girls before you find an excellent match and
then how much time can you spend with them? How much time can they spend with you? You
are going to have to keep them interested while you are preparing for your next trip. Are you a
super shy type? This strategy is probably not the one for you.

Both these stratagems have advantages and weakness and it varies with what you are comfortable
with and your personality. I can go and meet 15 girls and make an assessment while meeting her 
and decide whether I will ever ask her out again in a few minutes. I can also make her laugh and
want to see me again as well.

So in my opinion each guy has to determine which strategy works best for him.

Udachi!

Bill
:applaud: I was before more after a WMVM and even WAVM (write any visit many), but Bill is correct it doesn't fit some personalities and some guys are absolutely not comfortable with this. Those guys will screw up their meetings because they don't have the social skills to come along VM, so don't do it. Also some guys cannot assess the girl and they are overwhelmed by the beauty of the girl and it hurts them back.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 14, 2019, 03:36:27 AM
 :ROFL:

Not all of us are Trench..some of us CHOOSE to VO and certainly do not lack social skills ...

I am as amazed at those espousing the 'merits' of a VM trip as you might be regarding VM .....

We are approaching the beginning of the third decade of the 21C and most lasses have access to messenger apps and the ability to chat ( and video chat )

WHY waste time lining up dates with lasses you've not taken the chance to 'weed out' ?

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 14, 2019, 04:02:28 AM
Waste of time and effort and stressful.  Might as well go speed dating))


Each to his own, but I believe on the contrary. Visiting one woman builds expectations, puts lot of pressure on the trip, can cause all sorts of stress from both sides and especially if things don't seem right from the start. The pressure of having to deal with the situation and potentially dump the girl, or face the fact she's just not into you? What if from the start things are off and a potentially expensive and time-precious trip is ruined?


Even 'Speed dating' is far more fun to me, meeting new ladies and potentially the perfect one at the next opportunity, anticipating yet not expecting what chemistry there may be rather than what you've build the entire trip around and may not materialise.


Of course, WOVO is high-reward if going into the trip she seems like the perfect lady and all expectations are fulfilled, but what is the actual success rate of such trips, i.e. that lead to marriage? If things aren't going well in a VM situation, it's so much easier to walk away in a positive frame of mind.


I agree wholeheartedly with nightwish. Every trip, every date I have been on was an experience. I don't regret my VO trips, but I think if a Vo and a VM doesn't lead to something, the VM will always at least leave better memories.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 14, 2019, 04:04:18 AM
:ROFL:

Not all of us are Trench..some of us CHOOSE to VO and certainly do not lack social skills ...

I am as amazed at those espousing the 'merits' of a VM trip as you might be regarding VM .....

We are approaching the beginning of the third decade of the 21C and most lasses have access to messenger apps and the ability to chat ( and video chat )

WHY waste time lining up dates with lasses you've not taken the chance to 'weed out' ?


I am sure everyone who does a WMVM (as opposed to speed dating) will have done some weeding-out. The fact is that online romances - even by Skype, Viber and Whatsapp - are not the same as boots on the ground time.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 14, 2019, 04:15:07 AM

Visiting one woman builds expectations, puts lot of pressure on the trip, can cause all sorts of stress from both sides and especially if things don't seem right from the start. The pressure of having to deal with the situation and potentially dump the girl, or face the fact she's just not into you? What if from the start things are off and a potentially expensive and time-precious trip is ruined?

?? :)

If you both do your due diligence  beforehand ...( and there is NO excuse in this day and age for not doing that) ..I fail to see how one can be 'stressed' - disappointed may be ? 
It can happen ..

I know of a happily married couple who when the guy arrived in Siberia .. the lady had invited him for a month .. She told V that she had made a mistake..;)

Each of us makes their choices based on previous experience


Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: lyndontom on March 14, 2019, 04:20:27 AM
?? :)

If you both do your due diligence  beforehand ...( and there is NO excuse in this day and age for not doing that) ..I fail to see how one can be 'stressed' - disappointed may be ? 
It can happen ..

I know of a happily married couple who when the guy arrived in Siberia .. the lady had invited him for a month .. She told V that she had made a mistake.. ;)

Each of us makes their choices based on previous experience


Agree with the last sentence.


I am not speaking personally as such when talking about stress. For some there will be excitement, but there are many here and on other forums, documentaries, etc that have and will have travelled across the world to meet one woman and put all of their eggs in one basket. Whether or not they did their due diligence  or not (or ignored red flags) is for them to consider.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Nightwish on March 14, 2019, 04:36:43 AM
each one to his own, what suits one does not suit everyone else. So saying one is wrong and one is right -nah moby that right there is where you are wrong.

I have no issues with those thinking wmvm is the way for them, I never was comfortable doing it and never really saw that as a option living this close. I did try, and that only stressed me out with trying to put that puzzle right.

In those cases I rather just showed up boots on ground and tried getting dates "the old fashioned way" - and despite all (language issues mostly - as I do not speak a word of Russian) succeeded very well in my opinion.
Not that I found my girl that way, but I had a lot of interesting and giving dates/interactions with a whole bunch of different women I would never have found on any datingsite.

but, racking up a bunch of girls beforehand with vm approach always got me thinking more about sex tourism then trying to find a life partner - but that is my opinion. Not forcing that on anyone else.

I guess In a way you could compare my "boots on ground" way with PUA approach, but my goal was not to get the girl in the sack asap, just to explore the eventual mutual interest and chemistry.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 14, 2019, 11:14:05 AM
All the talk about WMVM vs WOVO ignores that there are really only two factors that are important in deciding which method is best for any man (or woman).

1) Travel time.  Those in Europe have the luck to be able to do WOVO in an economically logical framework.  Those in N. America, Australia, etc., do not.

2) Organizational skills.  Only those possessing this can pull off a WMVM.

So those espousing the WOVO have to really admit (although they won't) that they don't have the skills to pull off a WMVM;  or, unless they have no economic sense, they are in countries near to FSU.

Q.E.D.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 14, 2019, 11:35:07 AM
No, no,no no!

Sorry to take your thesis apart but some of us pursued Siberian women  which are just as far for us as  US or Antipodean chaps...

What amazes me is how few 'westerrn guys' look east of Kyiv...let alone the Urals..

I read today that a poster said 'the political climate made dating in Russia a 'no no'...  Thanks like saying "do not marry an American", because'they' elected Trump....


Next you will be telling us that the quiet one's are goers...
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 14, 2019, 01:17:49 PM

So why write like WMVM is the route to go?


You are reading things into what I write. I advocate doing what you are comfortable with.
For some people WMVM is the way to go, for some it definitely is not. The shy guy shouldn't
try WMVM, the guy who can't "think on his feet" shouldn't try it.

There are guys who know that they are better in person than they are writing

I've made several VO trips including my first trip to Voronezh. Once it didn't work out, I tried
to meet other girls and I managed to find Angel Eyes. I had never seen, heard or contacted
Angel Eyes until a couple days after

My point has always been do what works for you.

I also believe that many of the WMVM use the wrong tactics. Many of them write 50+ times
to 7 or 8 girls and then try to visit each of them. I think that those guys are destined to spend
a long time before they are successful.

There are a hundred ways to do this and a thousand ways to screw it up.

Title: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 14, 2019, 01:34:29 PM
What amazes me is how few 'westerrn guys' look east of Kyiv...let alone the Urals..

Most guys go to the place where the MOB industry has the most active agencies e.g.
Kiev, Odessa and Nikolaev. My theory is that you find the girl then go to meet her
wherever the girl is. If she lives on Venus, go to Venus and learn a little of the
Venetian language.

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2019, 03:33:43 PM
No, no,no no!

Sorry to take your thesis apart but some of us pursued Siberian women  which are just as far for us as  US or Antipodean chaps...

What amazes me is how few 'westerrn guys' look east of Kyiv...let alone the Urals..

I read today that a poster said 'the political climate made dating in Russia a 'no no'...  Thanks like saying "do not marry an American", because'they' elected Trump....


Next you will be telling us that the quiet one's are goers...

I think to the guy who has never been to Russia before Moscow & St. Petersburg are big pulls and for Ukraine, Kiev and Odessa are the big ones followed then by Kharkiv & Nikolaev. Nikolaev to be honest is not an easy reach as landing in Odessa, far fewer English/American guys there. For Belarus, Minsk comes top for most.

It's a strange one, these cities are wonderful to visit in their own rights, at least the city centres are, they have great stuff to see and good times can be had with a girl.

I'm not sure how I would find it doing the FSU Dating scene without having gone to most of those cities I've listed. While some of the more provincial cities can be marvellous many are not well known about then of course there are the provincial cities that are not very pleasant places.

If I had decided to miss out the big main cities I wonder if I would have felt I was missing out on a vital piece of the FSU Dating Scene. The big cities are kind of like big cultural centres and also a big feature of the context of FSU Dating to which most WM FSU Dating have visited, if not all then usually at least one or two of them. To miss these out would be like not understanding FSU culture or the FSU Dating context in the slightest.

Of course guys can be successful without visiting these cities. In fact probably more so as there is probably too many WM visiting those parts these days. I really only have St. Pete's & Kharkiv I have not visited. Kharkiv no longer interests me as there seems too much scamming stuff going on there. St. Pete's I think I'll probably leave to later with a girl if I've found one as a tourist trip. For me now the more provincial cities that are lesser frequented have their attraction and I'll think that's where I'll go next :)

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 14, 2019, 08:55:28 PM
Most guys go to the place where the MOB industry has the most active agencies e.g.
Kiev, Odessa and Nikolaev. My theory is that you find the girl then go to meet her
wherever the girl is. If she lives on Venus, go to Venus and learn a little of the
Venetian language.

Quite

The agency model is just about dead.

Find the lady whereever she is and go for it.

I have told this story 100 times...Ladies in far flung Siberia get letters from guys who 'will be in Moscow for two weeks' and wonder why the lady declines to meet.

The first guy with something about him who goes there directly will blow the keyboard Romeos away.



Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 15, 2019, 04:30:26 AM
All the talk about WMVM vs WOVO ignores that there are really only two factors that are important in deciding which method is best for any man (or woman).

1) Travel time.  Those in Europe have the luck to be able to do WOVO in an economically logical framework.  Those in N. America, Australia, etc., do not.

2) Organizational skills.  Only those possessing this can pull off a WMVM.

So those espousing the WOVO have to really admit (although they won't) that they don't have the skills to pull off a WMVM;  or, unless they have no economic sense, they are in countries near to FSU.

Q.E.D.
Good post here again,
As being an european and having huge vacations (more than 8 weeks) i could travel  three time per year with duration till 3 weeks. So when you stay there 2 or 3 weeks you have the time to focus on a lady and make your opinion. As the price of the transport is between 300 and 500Ä it helps.
If you read the beginning of operation white panther you will guess that i had to plan a lot, i could use an agency but many times i was using two or three and some free sites.

Visiting many pushes compressing time and meetings (however i found that the maximum meeting per day was 3, after you are too exhausted to read the girl, and i was trained and experienced) and try to set up some second appointment with the most promising for the week end.

A lot of guys believe that FSU women are laying on the bed, their legs pointed with any western guys coming and that they do this day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. But the truth is that they have generally not a lot time free and only spare time during saturday or sunday. The ones who speak a good english, who are tanned, have tons of photos of Dubai in a shopping center and can meet you every day afternoon should switch on your radar on "targeted" "acquisition" "launch" "destroyed"


Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: jone on March 16, 2019, 10:48:31 AM
I am slightly suspicious of any woman who is from Kyiv or Moscow or any other large metropolitan areas of Eastern Europe.   Unless they were born there .....

Particularly Moscow.   As you may know, not everyone gets to live in Moscow.   (Or the other Federal Cities.)  At some point the individual would have had to do something remarkable to live there, if not from there.   So you get some beautiful Kova who shares that she is from Moscow on the internet.   And that she is originally from <name your village or small town>.   So how did she get there?  What skids did she grease?  Who helped her.....

We all have life histories prior to any current relationship.   But this is one more avenue that should be gently explored.

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 16, 2019, 11:00:31 AM
I am slightly suspicious of any woman who is from Kyiv or Moscow or any other large metropolitan areas of Eastern Europe.   Unless they were born there .....

Particularly Moscow.   As you may know, not everyone gets to live in Moscow.   (Or the other Federal Cities.)  At some point the individual would have had to do something remarkable to live there, if not from there.   

True story:

We all know that mothers in law rarely approve of the woman their son marries.

And so it was with wife's mother in law.
Fairly frequently she would tell Ochka how she wouldn't be anything if son hadn't married her and brought her to Kyiv.

However, wife only once sent the bomb.

During her engagement, she received another marriage proposal from a newly minted military officer who was being posted to Moscow.

So when mother in law stated for 'last' time; where would you be if my son hadn't married you?

Ochka replied:  Moscow.

Mother in law was speechless . . . but she never brought up this topic again.

(Note:  For those who do not understand . . . the 'pecking order' of cities in FSU was very, very important [and still is] to FSU folks)

- - - - -

I recall another time when I suggested to a Kyiv woman that she could visit me in Dnipropetrosk.
She reacted as if I had asked her to visit a slum in Hades.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 16, 2019, 11:53:03 AM
?? :)

If you both do your due diligence  beforehand ...( and there is NO excuse in this day and age for not doing that) ..I fail to see how one can be 'stressed' - disappointed may be ? 
It can happen ..

I know of a happily married couple who when the guy arrived in Siberia .. the lady had invited him for a month .. She told V that she had made a mistake..;)

Each of us makes their choices based on previous experience

Moby,

Not everyone has the same reactions to the same stimuli. Many people spend a
lot of time, effort, resources and emotions into a trip to the FSU to see a girl for
the first time.

No amount of due diligence will ensure that the trip is a success. In fact there is a
very good chance that it will be a failure. Not everyone is as confident meeting a
beautiful girl as you or I am.

Also friends, relatives or coworkers might have poo-poo'd the idea of meeting a
girl in the FSU, or said that she is only in it for a green card etc. Let's add in kids
a less than supportive ex-wife and a million other issues.

You can't imagine stress being involved with meeting a girl?

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 16, 2019, 01:34:44 PM
I agree with msmob visit one.  If it doesn't work out go site seeing on your own .maybe you meet another person maybe you don't but better than the logistical nightmare of 2 timing .
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Obtuso on March 18, 2019, 09:44:48 AM
I think that the quote below is very relevant to this discussion.
At around 12:50 minutes of the video

"We cannot dissociate money from any Slavic Woman."

And this is from what it seems to be a reputable matchmaker.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du0YF_ZwAxU
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 18, 2019, 09:52:40 AM
I agree with msmob visit one.  If it doesn't work out go site seeing on your own .maybe you meet another person maybe you don't but better than the logistical nightmare of 2 timing .

I met 12-16 on several trips and it was no logistical nightmare at all.

I have never been a salesperson, but as we all should know such persons (not counting those working in retail shops) regularly meet several customers a day or week and often have to present very detailed analysis and suggested products to a variety of business organizations . . . all the while keeping track of correct names of client's spouses, children, birthdays, etc.

There are obviously millions of persons world wide who can do this.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 18, 2019, 03:44:39 PM
I met 12-16 on several trips and it was no logistical nightmare at all.


I have never been a salesperson, but as we all should know such persons (not counting those working in retail shops) regularly meet several customers a day or week and often have to present very detailed analysis and suggested products to a variety of business organizations . . . all the while keeping track of correct names of client's spouses, children, birthdays, etc.

There are obviously millions of persons world wide who can do this.

ML

You are a smart chap...so I find it hard to believe you posted this analogy when sober...

It is Trench-like in it's utter daftness...sorry.

I think you are  confusing the art of courtship with  earning a crust by getting someone to buy a product.

YOU are the product and are only available to be sold once..

Are you suggesting you enjoyed being akin to a car, being test driven?

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Gator on March 18, 2019, 07:38:17 PM

Are you suggesting you enjoyed being akin to a car, being test driven?

My callous answer would be I am the test driver, not the car.   In truth, regarding my VWRW experiences, I was only looking, not expecting nor seeking a ride.  However, sometimes the car was fully fueled, with the keys in the ignition, and the road open with "cool wind in my hair."   

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 18, 2019, 10:08:11 PM
Callous and amusing..but my point was serious, non the less.

Many ladies do not want to meet guys onVM trips as they  do not want to meet and aid a 'sex tourist'...  that is a quote from my ex wife..( I can now say that!)

Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 19, 2019, 01:18:10 PM
that is a quote from my ex wife..( I can now say that!)

Congratulations Moby !!

Bill's divorce joke of the day.

I just got my divorce, my wife and I split the house.
I got the outside.


(http://img.freepik.com/free-vector/card-template-with-fireworks-party-horns_1308-3021.jpg?size=626&ext=jpg)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: John Gaunt on March 21, 2019, 02:10:28 AM
A Ukrainian won't eat that bread.  I mean good, organic food, which is what most Ukrainians eat.

Any comparison of cost of living puts Ukraine's cost at 60% less than in the UK.  Their salaries are less than that, so it's relative.  They also don't pay any sales taxes.


But, let's let other UK posters who have been through the process comment on whether you can support a wife in the UK on your current salary, or even with a 20% increase.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Forget about Ukrainians, any person with half a brain who cares about what they eat wonít eat that crap.
From my own perspective, we eat fresh, home cooked food.
My wife loves fish, as do a lot of Ukrainian women. Good quality fresh fish is pretty expensive in the UK as is good quality fresh meat bought from our local butcher and fish monger.
Ukrainians buy a lot of food locally at their bazaars.
The equivalent of that would be local farm shops, street markets and farmers markets. That isnít cheap.
Trench thinks his prospective bride will be happy to eat beans on toast and jam butties and survive on his Scrooge budget.
That will get him to  :trainwreck:

Itís not just food though.
He will have to provide a mobile phone for her. He will lose his single persons council tax discount and pay full whack.
Electricity, water, gas, internet. Easily £200+ per month. (a conservative estimate,  from experience the heating will be on most of the time as they feel colder here, so expect a bigger heating bill)
Just bills and council tax will make a huge hole in trenchís monthly income of £1000.
House insurance, car insurance (life insurance, if he has any sense, but I doubt he would) all costs.
Trench already lives in poverty. He canít afford a foreign import.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 21, 2019, 08:59:52 AM
(life insurance, if he has any sense, but I doubt he would)

If I'm dead then having had such won't mean anything to me ;)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 21, 2019, 09:16:32 AM
Congratulations Moby !!

Bill's divorce joke of the day.

I just got my divorce, my wife and I split the house.
I got the outside.


(http://img.freepik.com/free-vector/card-template-with-fireworks-party-horns_1308-3021.jpg?size=626&ext=jpg)


+ 1 
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Boethius on March 21, 2019, 09:32:58 AM
If I'm dead then having had such won't mean anything to me ;)


Wow.  Real husband material.  "If I leave my family impecunious, what do I care?  I'll be dead."


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: ML on March 21, 2019, 09:55:51 AM

Wow.  Real husband material.  "If I leave my family impecunious, what do I care?  I'll be dead."

Wife comes home from evening medical appointment/tests.
Tells husband shocking news that they told her she would not live through the night.
In bed, she says she wants to have as much sex as possible all night.
After X times, husband says:  I need some sleep as I have to get up and go to work in morning . . . you don't have to!!
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: John Gaunt on March 21, 2019, 10:51:27 AM
If I'm dead then having had such it won't mean anything to me anybody.
Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 21, 2019, 11:09:22 AM
Callous and amusing..but my point was serious, non the less.

Many ladies do not want to meet guys onVM trips as they  do not want to meet and aid a 'sex tourist'...  that is a quote from my ex wife..( I can now say that!)
I do agree that FSU ladies don't want to meet sex tourist.
However there is gap between what they are saying and what they do for real.
And this factor is inversely proportionnal to:(Number of hours spend in communication + square root (days of communication) + x % of how is she conservative) plus her distance from a city of more than 300000 people divided by the number of her suitors, past or present, multiply by 3 when it's a foreigner plus her level  + x% of her knowledge in every foreign language

and so you get the formula, even if this one is not perfect as i am not so good in maths as it seems to be  :P            ------------------------------------
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 21, 2019, 11:15:10 AM
Anyone who works in the business world survives by discretion and trustworthiness and a diary that is full for 2 weeks at least and hopefully a month business people's understand they will be scheduled.   Slavic women on the other hand tend to be random .  Terrible time keepers and get angry if it takes more than 6 hours to return their calls.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: jone on March 21, 2019, 11:15:40 AM
I do agree that FSU ladies don't want to meet sex tourist.
However there is gap between what they are saying and what they do for real.
And this factor is inversely proportionnal to:(Number of hours spend in communication + square root (days of communication) + x % of how is she conservative) plus her distance from a city of more than 300000 people divided by the number of her suitors, past or present, multiply by 3 when it's a foreigner plus her level  + x% of her knowledge in every foreign language

and so you get the formula, even if this one is not perfect as i am not so good in maths as it seems to be  :P            ------------------------------------

Pat,

You sound like the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz (The square root of the hypotenuse ......)
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 21, 2019, 11:19:01 AM
But I do agree if the keys are in the car and the engine is running go for a fast drive it's the only way to learn how to get round the corners.  Ice rain  and taking the traction control off.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 21, 2019, 11:27:46 AM
I met 12-16 on several trips and it was no logistical nightmare at all.

I have never been a salesperson, but as we all should know such persons (not counting those working in retail shops) regularly meet several customers a day or week and often have to present very detailed analysis and suggested products to a variety of business organizations . . . all the while keeping track of correct names of client's spouses, children, birthdays, etc.

There are obviously millions of persons world wide who can do this.
I think that ML wants to say that VM is not so far from dealing a professional schedule when it's time to setup appointments, flats, flights and so on.
Many have come through this type of agenda and have the skills to manage it.
MSB don't be offended, the success with VM is that you should minimize your emotional investment. The courtship starts on the FSU land principaly, rather than through a long correspondance.
It fits different type of personality. The most important is that you are at ease with what you do.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: Patagonie on March 21, 2019, 11:28:56 AM
Pat,

You sound like the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz (The square root of the hypotenuse ......)
It's true that i am always calculating the pussy hypothenuse, but often get some problems with the result.
Title: Re: How does a girl choose which guys she wishes to meet?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2019, 08:01:01 PM
Congratulations Moby !!

Bill's divorce joke of the day.

I just got my divorce, my wife and I split the house.
I got the outside.


(http://img.freepik.com/free-vector/card-template-with-fireworks-party-horns_1308-3021.jpg?size=626&ext=jpg)

Missed this..Maxx2 pointed it out..

Appreciated, Beel...