Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Married => Topic started by: BillyB on December 10, 2019, 09:46:27 AM

Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 10, 2019, 09:46:27 AM

One can buy Microsoft office 365 pro plus 2019 for under $3 on Ebay. Good for 5 devices and it has lifetime activation.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-office-365-pro-plus-2019-account-lifetime-5-devices-5tb-cloud/383311405273?hash=item593f23e0d9:g:xRkAAOSwTYZd7jx-
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: ML on December 10, 2019, 10:05:11 AM
One can buy Microsoft office 365 pro plus 2019 for under $3 on Ebay. Good for 5 devices and it has lifetime activation.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-office-365-pro-plus-2019-account-lifetime-5-devices-5tb-cloud/383311405273?hash=item593f23e0d9:g:xRkAAOSwTYZd7jx-

I suspect this is a highly illegal product and Microsoft can probably disable it on your computer.
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 10, 2019, 10:38:04 AM
I suspect this is a highly illegal product and Microsoft can probably disable it on your computer.

You, sir, are certainly correct.  I, for one, would not like to operate with a pirated product.   For the same reason, I pay for the movies I watch.   Life is too short to be cutting corners.

Makes me wonder what type of moral argument stands up against the Chinese for stealing our intellectual properties when we're willing to steal intellectual properties on a personal level.
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: GQBlues on December 10, 2019, 11:03:07 AM
You, sir, are certainly correct.  I, for one, would not like to operate with a pirated product.   For the same reason, I pay for the movies I watch.   Life is too short to be cutting corners.

Makes me wonder what type of moral argument stands up against the Chinese for stealing our intellectual properties when we're willing to steal intellectual properties on a personal level.

It's eBay. Better than a good chance the product IS coming from China.
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 10, 2019, 11:53:56 AM
I suspect this is a highly illegal product and Microsoft can probably disable it on your computer.


It can't be illegal because it's a Microsoft product and can be downloaded for free off their website anyway. Is it illegally sold? No because it's not the software that's for sale. Microsoft checks ebay often and points out to Ebay any listing that does not comply with their rules for selling their product. Listings will then get promtly removed.

Microsoft's strategy of getting rid of piracy, which WAS a HUGE problem in the past, is to give away their product for free. Yes, you heard right. it's free. You don't here about the piracy problems anymore with the Chinese and others selling disks with Microsoft software on them. One can download Windows 10 Pro ISO for free right at Microsoft's website and install it on as many computers as they want. Although it's free to use Microsoft's products, you won't get security updates and may have limitations on functions without the activation key. They will give you the annoying message the product isn't activate but they won't stop you from using the product or threaten you will legal action.

How do they make money then? The activation key has to be bought and the keys can be legally sold and bought on Ebay. The old paper keys that can be resold are gone. Keys are digitally stored on the motherboard so one can't peel the number off the side of the case and resell again like in the old days. It's still legal do sell paper keys like that but it cut into Microsoft's profit. I've bought thousands of keys with no problems at all. I've download Microsoft office for my wife's MacBook air cheap and it still works no problem. She likes a light laptop too. Keys for the Mac tend to cost more than keys for the PC though. All products getting activated online are blessed by Microsoft before activation. They will not activate a bad key if that is what was bought. You can get your money back on Ebay if you were scammed so no risk to you.

Microsoft has come a long way in order to protecting it's name since they got a bad rap with their software being vulnerable to hacking. Of course Apple products doesn't have that problem because nobody wants to hack into Apple. Microsoft Defender anti virus and malware is free with Windows 10 Pro. Never had a problem on my PC for the years I been using Windows 10 Pro. Don't need any other anti virus or malware software. In the past I didn't trust Microsoft's anti virus programs because hackers regularly got through but I trust them today. Microsoft Defender even beats the industry average for protection. It beats most products that cost money and it doesn't slow down your computer as much as other software. If any of you left Microsoft due to bad experiences, give them another try. Today's Microsoft is a lot better than in the past.

http://www.av-test.org/en/antivirus/home-windows/windows-10/october-2019/microsoft-windows-defender-4.18-194015/

It's eBay. Better than a good chance the product IS coming from China.

Ebay has become a much safer place to buy from now even if product is coming from China. They are still selling fakes on Ebay pertaining to certain items like perfume but Ebay guarantees a full refund if you were delivered a fake from China. If you bought a product that isn't genuine from China, file a claim on Ebay. Takes less than a minute. The seller is supposed to supply you a shipping label to ship the product back and full refund. The Chinese shipper will offer a discount hoping you will keep the item. Don't take it. They won't provide a shipping label because it cost more than the product is worth. After a week and there is no resolve between you and shipper, Ebay will pull money out of their account and refund you in full.

Most of the Microsoft keys I buy come from Europe, specifically the UK. Don't know why less US sellers selling Microsoft keys than Europeans. I suspect Microsoft put as much restrictions on US sellers as the laws allow and European laws allow sellers there more freedoms.

Makes me wonder what type of moral argument stands up against the Chinese for stealing our intellectual properties when we're willing to steal intellectual properties on a personal level.


Just because one person knows how get things done better than what others believe is the right way doesn't mean the person is committing a crime. Probably why a lot of people think Trump committed a crime in business. He just did things a better way than most of us can think of and it's all legal. I remember being in a fast food restaurant and told a co-worker "Let's go get a refill of soda". He replied "I don't want to steal". I replied "You paid for a drink that includes unlimited free refills. It's not stealing. You just don't know what you paid for." For less than $3, ML can legally purchase an activation key which will be activated my Microsoft themselves and download Microsoft Office 2019 for free for his wife's computer and sleep with a clean conscience. But if he gets sent to the big house, I promise to visit him at least once.

Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 10, 2019, 11:57:48 AM
Wow.  I think he actually believes this.
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 10, 2019, 12:04:36 PM
I suspect this is a highly illegal product and Microsoft can probably disable it on your computer.
You can download Apache OpenOffice 4.1.7 for free from http://www.openoffice.org/download/index.html  ;)
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: SteveInBoston on December 10, 2019, 12:11:30 PM
Microsoft Office 365 is a subscription plan.  There is no "lifetime" key.  Each account is payed in monthly or yearly subscriptions.  Monthly for business accounts, yearly for home users.

Theoretically, after activation you could use it perpetually offline.  But once you go online the software will check activation status and prompt you to renew.  And when offline, I am not sure if the product will force you to go online after a default time to check for activation - I have never been offline long enough to test this.



Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 10, 2019, 12:51:31 PM
Wow.  I think he actually believes this.

That's it? That's your argument? Can you explain what part isn't true? You can legally pay maximum price for a product or you can legally pay minimum price for a product. Your choice. There are options. Being smart or dumb on this issue is a choice.

If you don't think a $3 activation key on Ebay is legal, buy one, disconnect your wifi or ethernet cable. When activating a Microsoft product after download from their website, they will tell you that you're not connected to internet and will provide you with a phone number to activate their product over the phone. You will call, speak to a live person and give them the $3 key you bought on Ebay over the phone and they(Microsoft employees) will activate your software with that $3 key. They will validate the key and then provide you with another key that can activate their product offline. You don't have to trust me but don't go around saying it can't be done unless you get some experience and experience will tell you it can be done legally.

Microsoft Office 365 is a subscription plan.  There is no "lifetime" key.  Each account is payed in monthly or yearly subscriptions.  Monthly for business accounts, yearly for home users.


Is there a lifetime key for Office 365? Yes there is. It's usually a product for academic use. Why does Microsoft allow the sales for these lifetime keys to be sold on Ebay? Probably because they get a tax break for each use of the product.

I once tried to sell an old paper key of Microsoft Windows 7 on Ebay and my listing was quickly taken down with a message saying I violated Ebay and Microsoft's rules for selling the product which wasn't disclosed. I wondered why my listing was taken down and others were allowed to stand. I figured it out because nobody was going to tell me the rules.  I must follow the rules and the Microsoft rule for selling Windows 7 keys on Ebay were to offer a piece of hardware with the key. So I listed the key again with my ad saying it is sold with a broken motherboard that will not be shipped like the key would be but have to be picked up. My listing was allowed to stand and I eventually sold the key and nobody came to pick up the broken motherboard.

When you see a listing selling keys on Ebay that's been there for days without removal, you'll know the listing is selling a legitimate Microsoft keys that follows all of eBay's and Microsoft rules. They and their software are constantly scouring listings to remove quickly those listings that do not follow rules.
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: Grumpy on December 10, 2019, 02:05:17 PM
 I am very satisfied Kubuntu and Libre Office. They do everything I want, no keys required.
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: ML on December 10, 2019, 04:08:36 PM
You can download Apache OpenOffice 4.1.7 for free from http://www.openoffice.org/download/index.html  ;)

I have installed this on all our computers.
However, it doesn't do ALL of what Office does.
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: GQBlues on December 10, 2019, 04:12:54 PM
Ebay has become a much safer place to buy from now even if product is coming from China. They are still selling fakes on Ebay pertaining to certain items like perfume but Ebay guarantees a full refund if you were delivered a fake from China. If you bought a product that isn't genuine from China, file a claim on Ebay. Takes less than a minute. The seller is supposed to supply you a shipping label to ship the product back and full refund. The Chinese shipper will offer a discount hoping you will keep the item. Don't take it. They won't provide a shipping label because it cost more than the product is worth. After a week and there is no resolve between you and shipper, Ebay will pull money out of their account and refund you in full.

Most of the Microsoft keys I buy come from Europe, specifically the UK. Don't know why less US sellers selling Microsoft keys than Europeans. I suspect Microsoft put as much restrictions on US sellers as the laws allow and European laws allow sellers there more freedoms.


I will yield what you say to be legit, BillyB. I won't doubt that.


Maybe at my age, I've no time, maybe even the interest to search for alternatives at this level in my life. I get so much use off MS pro/office - both at work and at home, so paying what MS would like for me to pay for the privilege of use, I do. It seem rather a relatively minor expense considering the use you get out of it.


Besides, maybe in my case, being a paid $8.24/hr salaried employee, our company gladly pays for these anyway, including the laptop I tote around everywhere (hate laptops) and our PC at home.
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: SteveInBoston on December 10, 2019, 10:46:09 PM
Again, there is no "lifetime" license for Office 365.  Just because someone on Ebay sells it as such doesn't make it true.

Academic licenses of Office 365 is based on yearly subscription fees, at a discount from the home version.

There is no license key for someone to call in to activate.  The licence tied to the subscriber's email, a bit like Netflix or any other online subscription plan.

The last version of a permanent software is MS Office 2016.  But that version was a hybrid from the traditional Office software and Office 365, and required an online account to be associated.  The last pure version of stand-alone was Office 2013.

Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 10, 2019, 11:08:55 PM

I will yield what you say to be legit, BillyB. I won't doubt that.


I do.  It is massive self justification for stealing where he may.   It is like saying:  "I didn't get caught, so it is not against the law."   Like all of those sub-contractors that Trump intentionally didn't pay.   Wow.  It costs too much to prosecute me, so it can't be against the law.

I had a friend tell me about a website that showed movies the week that they came out.  In some cases, the movies were copies made by camera.   In other cases the media was copied from whatever tape or diskette or film was delivered to the movie theaters.   

He told me that because the servers for these websites were out of the country, and that they only shared links to the movies that were on private servers, no one could ever be prosecuted for watching the shows.   The simple fact is that a first run movie is having its intellectual property rights violated.   And just because it is not profitable to track down individuals who saw those movies does not mean watching them is not violating their intellectual rights.   

Hey, I'm sure that the Chinese can come up with some twisted logic that allows them to mandate use of Western originated property rights, too.  But that would be all it is.   Twisted logic.   Just like we have witnessed above.  It is easy to justify something - simply because you want it.   It is like Krimster, the other day, coveting property in Odessa - and acting like it should be his due to an imminent (but unlikely) Russian invasion.

Everyone can twist logic to acquire/obtain things that were not meant for them.   Whether it is taking free refills at a soda fountain at a fast food place (why do you think they have cup sizes?) to justifying obtaining pirated software, to robbing a whole country of its intellectual property rights, in your heart of hearts, you know what is right and what is not right.   

Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 11, 2019, 02:19:33 AM
There is no license key for someone to call in to activate. 


If a person is online, they don't need to call Microsoft to give them a key. Computers take care of activation. Instructions on how to input your key to various Office programs including 365 at Microsoft's website below.

http://support.office.com/en-us/article/where-to-enter-your-office-product-key-0a82e5ae-739e-4b92-a6f4-2ec780c185db?ui=en-US&rs=en-US&ad=US

Again, there is no "lifetime" license for Office 365.  Just because someone on Ebay sells it as such doesn't make it true.

Academic licenses of Office 365 is based on yearly subscription fees, at a discount from the home version.


Here are 3 Office 365 plans Microsoft offers. One is free with no subscription ever. The other two cost $2.50 and $6 per month. No yearly fees and each plan is good for an unlimited amount of users. To qualify for a plan, one must be a student or teacher to sign up. For the rest of the unlimited users, it does not say they have to be a student or teacher.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/academic/compare-office-365-education-plans?activetab=tab%3aprimaryr1

Here are a couple of Ebay sellers each with thousands of Office 365 for life plans sold. One has been an Ebay member since 2003. There are more Ebay sellers like them. Ebay and Microsoft hasn't removed their listings or banned their accounts. They have not been arrested. If you sell just one old Windows 7 key like I did and list it wrong, the listing will be removed within a day. So why is Microsoft giving away free or near free software to students, teachers and the unlimited people on their plans? Why are they letting people on Ebay sell access to Office 365 cheap and not shutting them down? Of course they want people to use their products and get hooked but they are probably getting a tax break for every user using their product for free. If a product cost $50 and they gave it away to a million people, that will not only get them a big tax break, they look good doing charity work.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Office-365-2016-2019-Pro-Plus-5-Device-PC-MAC-Not-Key-10s-Delivery/163930879848?hash=item262b0ab768:g:MPoAAOSwSKJdpSwr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Office-365-2019-Pro-Plus-Lifetime-Account-5-Devices-5TB-PC-Mac/382911544028?hash=item59274e7adc:g:9VUAAOSwihlc6Xjj

It is massive self justification for stealing where he may.   It is like saying:  "I didn't get caught, so it is not against the law."   Like all of those sub-contractors that Trump intentionally didn't pay.   Wow.  It costs too much to prosecute me, so it can't be against the law.


No wonder you are mad at Trump. You think you are moral and ethical and everybody who does things differently than you would do must be the opposite. Trump is involved in over 500 business now plus many in the past. None been shut down by the government for criminal activity yet you think Trump did something criminal in business because he done things you wouldn't do to get ahead in life. If you want to get ahead in life, don't put unnecessary restrictions on yourself when nobody else is applying those restrictions.

I gave you simple instructions so you can see for yourself what I'm talking about and I'm going to make it more simple in 3 easy steps.

1) Go to Microsoft's website below and download their FREE Windows 10 Pro ISO which will allow you to install Windows 10 Pro on as many computers as you want. Yes! Microsoft offers their product to download for FREE. It can also be used for FREE! No activation needed but you will get annoying messages and won't get updates to the software. Microsoft will never shut you down but you will eventually get a virus that will shut you down since you'll be missing out on important security updates.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

2) Buy a $3 Windows 10 Pro activation key on Ebay to get rid of annoying message that Windows 10 Pro is not activated and may not be genuine although you downloaded it right off Microsoft's website.

3) Input the key and Microsoft's server will activate your Windows 10 Pro OS within seconds. Or disconnect yourself from the internet and you'll get a phone number to call for activation. Speak to a Microsoft employee. That employee will tell you if your key is valid or not. If valid they will give you another key to activate Win 10 Pro offline. Yes, you will have Microsoft themselves activate the Win 10 pro they allowed you to have for free with the $3 key you just bought off Ebay. And if they tell you it's not a valid key, you can get 100% of your money back from Ebay. But scammers tend to sell big ticket items and not waste time on things that cost a few dollars so buying bad keys are extremely rare. Money back guarantee and no risk. Try it out.

Everyone can twist logic to acquire/obtain things that were not meant for them.   Whether it is taking free refills at a soda fountain at a fast food place (why do you think they have cup sizes?) to justifying obtaining pirated software, to robbing a whole country of its intellectual property rights, in your heart of hearts, you know what is right and what is not right.   


It's easy to walk into a McDonalds and ask if refills are free after initial purchase. All their employees know the answer. But no. You tell everybody on the internet refills are not free because THEY make cup sizes for a reason so the final ruling is BillyB steals. I feel like Trump on impeachment. You're making stuff up to convince yourself I'm wrong. I'm trying to help people get more and pay less legally but you label me a bad guy. Maybe it's easy to call somebody a liar and thief than do your homework?  I'll save you a trip to a fast food restaurant. Answers pertaining to free refills can be found on the internet. So sit in a restaurant all day and drink your unlimited refills after initial purchase without worry an employee is going to call the cops on you if you don't pay for the last 10 drinks you stole. Can't steal something if it's offered to you free.

http://www.streski.com/12.pdf

http://www.aol.com/article/finance/2015/08/10/chains-where-drink-refills-are-free/21219853/
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: SteveInBoston on December 11, 2019, 08:33:59 AM
If a person is online, they don't need to call Microsoft to give them a key. Computers take care of activation. Instructions on how to input your key to various Office programs including 365 at Microsoft's website below.

http://support.office.com/en-us/article/where-to-enter-your-office-product-key-0a82e5ae-739e-4b92-a6f4-2ec780c185db?ui=en-US&rs=en-US&ad=US

Here are 3 Office 365 plans Microsoft offers. One is free with no subscription ever. The other two cost $2.50 and $6 per month. No yearly fees and each plan is good for an unlimited amount of users. To qualify for a plan, one must be a student or teacher to sign up. For the rest of the unlimited users, it does not say they have to be a student or teacher.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/academic/compare-office-365-education-plans?activetab=tab%3aprimaryr1


Please stop this misinformation campaign.  There are some people who will just take your word and not bother to click on the link.

The A1 package is something a student or teacher can sign up for themselves.  It is a "free" version and is online only.  It is a web service version of Office, and require academic verification.  Again, it is subscriber based and is checked monthly.

The A3 and A5 are organization level packages.  A university or school needs to sign up, similar to a corporate sign up.  The cost is $2.50 and $6.00 PER USER/month.  The plans allow unlimited number of users withing the organization, but the cost is increased by licensed user at the stated rate.  And they requires annual commitment, which equates to $30/per year per person fpor A3, and $72 per year per person for A5.
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: GQBlues on December 11, 2019, 09:28:18 AM
I do.

I get it, jone. For me, too much to splice and dice. I don't even really bother as I've learned more often than not, you do get what you paid for.

But honestly, who amongst us had not recorded movies, shows, games, etc..in our VCRs and kept a library? Who amongst us had never downloaded one or two songs from Napster, Lime Wire, MP3Rocket? Burn CDs/DVRs? Those are literally in the rear view mirror but my point, methinks we are all culpable with this whole 'intellectual property' thievery than maybe we're willing to admit?

I already paid likely in excess of 2-3Gs from iTunes. I've a huge range of playlist in my song library that I bought from that service ap.

We evolve in so many things in life, man.
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 11, 2019, 09:44:15 AM
Hey,

I don't mean to come off so self righteous.  I'm not.  I will easily fill up my cup once the foam clears on the top when I'm at Pollo Loco (the only fast food place I'll go to...)  And I have watched copies of movies in my day. Out of convenience.   

But these types of things are not the things that occupy my mind.  My life is too short to worry about them - or for that matter, now, even elaborate about them. 

My original point stands, however.   How can we, as a society, not honor intellectual rights yet expect a whole country, China, to not try to do the same?   Our efforts there are as a cop, trying to enforce our laws.   While we, at home, are less than ethical in many of our dealings.   I know I have brought this up before, but Tom Clancy said it best in one of his books:  "International Relations is really just two nations attempting to F**k each other."

We have the king of such relations as our President, currently.   But he is negotiating for the US.   So now we think using such tactics as he uses is appropriate.   While that might be the proper perspective for our competitors, I do not thing we should be using such tactics with our traditional allies and friends.
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 11, 2019, 10:05:45 AM
Please stop this misinformation campaign.  There are some people who will just take your word and not bother to click on the link.


You clicked on the Microsoft link and failed to comprehend it and then proceeded to spread misinformation about what Microsoft said. I hope you're not an educator educating kids.

The A1 package is something a student or teacher can sign up for themselves.  It is a "free" version and is online only.  It is a web service version of Office, and require academic verification.  Again, it is subscriber based and is checked monthly.


In a previous post you said Office 365 was based off yearly subscription fees.  Fees are monthly on the A3 and A5 packages and the A1 package has no fees . All packages allows unlimited users and Microsoft doesn't say who those users need to be, just the person signing up has to be in school.

The A3 and A5 are organization level packages.  A university or school needs to sign up, similar to a corporate sign up.  The cost is $2.50 and $6.00 PER USER/month.  The plans allow unlimited number of users withing the organization, but the cost is increased by licensed user at the stated rate.  And they requires annual commitment, which equates to $30/per year per person fpor A3, and $72 per year per person for A5.


Wrong. The Microsoft page I provided offers the A1, A3, and A5 packages for students only. In the upper left corner above the A1 Package, click on "staff and faculty" button. There you will be taken to another page to see all three packages specifically for faculty and staff. They have a free A1 package option too or they can pay a couple dollars more than students for their respective A3, and A5 packages. ML's wife, a professor, may be interested in one of those packages.

Earlier you mention there is no Office 365 lifetime. Microsoft offers that but charges a one time fee for it and only offers it in a Home and student version for $150. I suspect that is the number Microsoft writes off per person using free or near free versions of Office 365. Probably why they continue to allow it to sell on Ebay. The sales may or may not break their rules but at a $150 value a pop, they're financially benefiting listing each copy used as a loss or charitable contribution on their tax return.

http://products.office.com/en-us/compare-all-microsoft-office-products?&activetab=1

We have the king of such relations as our President, currently.   But he is negotiating for the US.   So now we think using such tactics as he uses is appropriate.   While that might be the proper perspective for our competitors, I do not thing we should be using such tactics with our traditional allies and friends.


 Trump isn't forcing a gun to anybody's head to sign a trade deal. Each nation sign a trade deal because there are benefits to their nation. Bill Clinton signed NAFTA and Mexico and Canada came out of it winners. We lost on NAFTA. Win some lose some. Trump wants to win all the time for America. Nothing evil about that. He's just smarter than Bill Clinton and would've never approved NAFTA.

If Microsoft activates your software with a $3 key you bought elsewhere, It's not evil and you are not stealing intellectual property. You have choices to pay more or pay less to legally obtain certain products. If paying more makes you sleep better, go for it. I showed you a Microsoft page where you can download Windows 10 Pro for free. Here is a Microsoft page where they will sell Windows 10 Pro for $199.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/b/windows?=en_US_Store_UH_software_Win&activetab=tab:shopwindows10
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: GQBlues on December 11, 2019, 11:03:08 AM
...I will easily fill up my cup once the foam clears on the top when I'm at Pollo Loco (the only fast food place I'll go to...)


(sorry ML)


Try Pollo Inka. 100x better IMO. There's one in Redondo Beach, Hawthorne and Gardena. You'd be so happy you did you you'll even vote for Trump to show your appreciation.
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 11, 2019, 11:14:17 AM

(sorry ML)


Try Pollo Inka. 100x better IMO. There's one in Redondo Beach, Hawthorne and Gardena. You'd be so happy you did you you'll even vote for Trump to show your appreciation.

(Likewise.  Sorry ML.  Shoulda stopped this long ago.)

The one in Torrance is NOT a fast food place.  I love the Picante de Pollo.  And the hot dinner rolls served with Green Sauce.  Never tried one of their express restaurants.    You get down our way, I'll take you to that Torrance location.   Worth the experience.  The location is PCH and Hawthorne Boulevard.  Lots of Inkan Motifs painted on the walls. 
Title: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: GQBlues on December 11, 2019, 11:17:15 AM
I didn't realize they have one in Torrance now. Love Lomo Saltado. Arroz con Verde (green soup), too. Wifey learned how to make this.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 11, 2019, 01:01:52 PM
I haven't got the new Office program through eBay yet as still using my old Student Office version from nearly ten years ago now. I find little need for an update, even with a ten year old version it's got more features than I will ever probably use.

I have purchased other usually expensive software of eBay for a knockdown price like the Office example here. The sellers state it's fully legit and like Billy said eBay are supposed to knock off and ads that aren't. So I'm not really to know otherwise.

The very cheap price is perculiar, often it's a case of updates & support not being available but it can still be a bargain without that. Some software updates don't amount to much anyway and getting a new version of a product without updates can still be a good upgrade overall.

I think some people love stumping up the full wack at the official site others aren't bothered with the full deal just prefer a cheap price without all being bothered with all the bells and whistles.

I personally think many of the official sites prices are vastly overpriced that they are holding the consumer hostage in near monopoly like conditions. Many now have also got on the 'Pay Monthly' bandwagon to screw consumers further. So for me I'm quite happy to go for the cheap eBay deal :)
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 11, 2019, 02:14:45 PM



Go for it Trench. With the money saved, it's one more date you can go on with a woman and increase your chances on getting lucky. You can thank me later.


I've known some secrets for years but this time I wanted to help ML and everybody here to save some money with a tip on how to buy software which will save each person hundreds over the years. My Christmas present to the forum. A thank you would be nice but instead I get labeled a liar and thief. I would've been hung by now if it weren't for the public hangings ban.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 11, 2019, 03:21:58 PM


Go for it Trench. With the money saved, it's one more date you can go on with a woman and increase your chances on getting lucky. You can thank me later.


I've known some secrets for years but this time I wanted to help ML and everybody here to save some money with a tip on how to buy software which will save each person hundreds over the years. My Christmas present to the forum. A thank you would be nice but instead I get labeled a liar and thief. I would've been hung by now if it weren't for the public hangings ban.

We're very appreciative, aren't we guys? :D

Yeah, I've probably saved the cost of a cheap flight and stay in a nice but cheap hotel in Ukraine as a result of such manoeuvres :)
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: SteveInBoston on December 12, 2019, 10:21:08 PM
You clicked on the Microsoft link and failed to comprehend it and then proceeded to spread misinformation about what Microsoft said. I hope you're not an educator educating kids.

Again, please stop with the misinformation and stop trying to deflect your actions to someone else.  The academic version you refer to requires a sign up and verification from an academic institution.  Here is the text, from the Microsoft's website link you provided:

Get Office 365 free for your entire school
Improve classroom and school collaboration with free productivity tools. You will need to verify that you are an accredited academic institution to take advantage of these offers.


In a previous post you said Office 365 was based off yearly subscription fees.  Fees are monthly on the A3 and A5 packages and the A1 package has no fees . All packages allows unlimited users and Microsoft doesn't say who those users need to be, just the person signing up has to be in school.

If you are going to refer to my previous post then please do not distort it.  I stated, specifically, "Each account is payed in monthly or yearly subscriptions.  Monthly for business accounts, yearly for home users."

I did not comment on the academic version, but since we are discussing it now, for the version A3 and A5 the fees are listed on the website as Per User/Month, but with a yearly commitment.  In effect, it is a yearly subscription, payed in monthly installments.

Again from the website:

Office 365 A3
$2.50
user/month
(annual commitment)

Office 365 A5
$6.00
user/month
(annual commitment)

Each plan, A1, A3 or A5, allow unlimited users.  For A1, which is free, the number of users makes no difference. 

For A3 and A5, each user signed up for the plan has to pay a fee.  It is not 1 fee for unlimited users.  Each person has to be accounted for as being part of the organization that registered for the academic version. 

Individuals cannot sign up for these plans (A1, A3 and A5).  The plan administrator for the academic institution has to add that person to the plan, and pay the fee for A3 or A5.


On the "Students and teachers, sign up yourself " link in that page, Microsoft will, in effect, give any student or faculty with a valid school email account a free version of Office 365 - the exact same version as A1.  Web version only.


Wrong. The Microsoft page I provided offers the A1, A3, and A5 packages for students only. In the upper left corner above the A1 Package, click on "staff and faculty" button. There you will be taken to another page to see all three packages specifically for faculty and staff. They have a free A1 package option too or they can pay a couple dollars more than students for their respective A3, and A5 packages. ML's wife, a professor, may be interested in one of those packages.

Please read what the website states.  The faculty versions are the same exact packages as the student versions, but at different cost for A3 and A5. 

Only package A1 is free, and it is free for both.  But, as I stated previously, it is limited to online:  Web versions of Word, PowerPoint, Excel, OneNote, and Outlook .  It does offer a desktop version of OneNote, but OneNote only.

ML's wife can sign up for A1 if her school has registered with Microsoft.  For A3 and A5, she will need to contact the office product administrator of her school.

Earlier you mention there is no Office 365 lifetime. Microsoft offers that but charges a one time fee for it and only offers it in a Home and student version for $150. I suspect that is the number Microsoft writes off per person using free or near free versions of Office 365. Probably why they continue to allow it to sell on Ebay. The sales may or may not break their rules but at a $150 value a pop, they're financially benefiting listing each copy used as a loss or charitable contribution on their tax return.

http://products.office.com/en-us/compare-all-microsoft-office-products?&activetab=1


Please, take time to read the product information in the link you provided.  From the website:

Office Home & Student 2019
$149.99
Buy now
One-time purchase

The one time purchase version is Office 2019, not Office 365.  And it only contains MS Word, Excel and Powerpoint.

Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 12, 2019, 11:33:25 PM
Each person has to be accounted for as being part of the organization that registered for the academic version. 


You're making rules up that aren't there. Microsoft says the person who signs up has to be in school. Microsoft doesn't define who the unlimited people in their plan have to be. I doubt Microsoft has the time to verify unlimited people.

The one time purchase version is Office 2019, not Office 365.  And it only contains MS Word, Excel and Powerpoint.


It's under Microsoft's "Get the most from Office with Office 365" page. The reason the one time purchase and own it forever version doesn't have 365 in the name like the others is because it's not a yearly(365 day) subscription.

Why get mad at me? Get mad at Microsoft for ALLOWING their product to be sold on Ebay for almost nothing. Microsoft, like everybody else, has a limit on charitable contributions they can claim on their tax returns. You can be one of those unlimited people in a qualified person's Office 365 plan for cheap and help Microsoft achieve their limit on charitable contributions which in turn helps reduce their taxes paid to zero or you can pay full price and help Microsoft make money so they can pay more taxes. They win either way. You have a choice if you want to win or lose.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: msmob on December 13, 2019, 01:06:09 AM
As usual, when Silly Billy is wrong, he'll argue black is white  rather than admitting it ;)


Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: John Gaunt on December 13, 2019, 01:41:11 AM
As usual, when Silly Billy is wrong, he'll argue black is white  rather than admitting it ;)
Arenít you describing yourself?
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: SteveInBoston on December 14, 2019, 06:40:25 PM
You're making rules up that aren't there. Microsoft says the person who signs up has to be in school. Microsoft doesn't define who the unlimited people in their plan have to be. I doubt Microsoft has the time to verify unlimited people.

The page you linked is for the "Sign up your School" academic product page.  There is a separate page for students and teachers to sign up by themselves, to a product that is almost identical to the A1 package, but not the same. 

That product requires the school to apply for a product contract.  It is similar to the business Office365 package (not the home office version).  You contact a representative, they provide a form to fill out and send you a proposal to enter into the institution's accounting system. Once the terms and conditions is signed, then someone or someones from the institution is designated as the plan administrator.  That person is given a product dashboard to add/remove or modify plan participants.

I have not been directly involved with the academic version, but have overseen our company's transition from Office 2013 and Office 2016 (we had a mix of product users) to Office365.  I have contacts with people at NorthEastern and Tufts universities - they have stated that the academic version works the same way.



It's under Microsoft's "Get the most from Office with Office 365" page. The reason the one time purchase and own it forever version doesn't have 365 in the name like the others is because it's not a yearly(365 day) subscription.

Why get mad at me? Get mad at Microsoft for ALLOWING their product to be sold on Ebay for almost nothing. Microsoft, like everybody else, has a limit on charitable contributions they can claim on their tax returns. You can be one of those unlimited people in a qualified person's Office 365 plan for cheap and help Microsoft achieve their limit on charitable contributions which in turn helps reduce their taxes paid to zero or you can pay full price and help Microsoft make money so they can pay more taxes. They win either way. You have a choice if you want to win or lose.

Office 365 is a continually updated product, and users get the latest version as long as their subscription remains active.   

Office 2019 is not the same as Office 365.  It is a major release version.  Microsoft releases a major version of Office every 3 years or so.  The product is the current version of Office until Office 2022 or 2023 is released (there was a 4 year gap between Office 2003 and Office 2007).  When the new version of office is released, Office 2019 will be obsolete.

However, it doesn't mean Office 2019 will not be usable after the next version.  Our company used Office 2003 for 10 years, skipping Office 2007 and upgrading to Office 2013.  We didn't upgrade to Office 2016, but purchased that version for new hires until we migrated everyone to Office 365.

There is a compatibility issue between the different major release versions of Office.  t worst, documents created in newer versions of Office cannot be opened by older versions.  At best, there will be features and content that will be lost when opening the document in an older version.  Documents created in older versions can be opened without issue in the newer version.

So, someone using Office 2019 should have no trouble sharing files with someone using Office365, until the next major version is released.


You seem to doubt everything I've said on this issue.  There is a simple solution.  I believe your wife is currenty in school?  She can try to sign up for the academic version herself.  I am willing to be proven wrong.


Also, I have no idea why you think I am mad at you?  I am requesting you to stop spreading false information.  My posts are to convey the actual product information for Office365 and Office 2019 to readers who may otherwise be mislead.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 14, 2019, 07:30:29 PM
My posts are to convey the actual product information for Office365 and Office 2019 to readers who may otherwise be mislead.


I posted links to Microsoft products so nobody, including myself, misleads others. You work in an office. Why were you trying to explain how the academic version of the product works?
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 14, 2019, 08:15:40 PM
The simple fact is that you're using someone else's account to tap into their purchase of Office 365.   It is why they tell you up front that you will not have your own account - someone else's email.   But that you can change your password. 

You can call it anything you want, but you are defrauding Microsoft. Here are part of the disclaimers by the ebay offer:

You will receive a username and password for your new account
You cannot use your own email address for this subscription.
You will receive a username and password for Activated Office 365.
You can change Password after initial login, however the username remains as is.


Is there anyone on this forum who really believes that this is anything other than use of a license other than it was intended for?   Get a grip.   Life is too short.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 14, 2019, 08:59:43 PM
The simple fact is that you're using someone else's account to tap into their purchase of Office 365.   It is why they tell you up front that you will not have your own account - someone else's email.   But that you can change your password. 


It says right on Microsoft's website for academic versions, unlimited people get to use it after a qualified person in school signs up for it.

Earlier I put links to sellers who sold on Ebay for years and sold thousands of Office software. Microsoft and Ebay allows them to sell. They didn't just sneak through the cracks and for years nobody knew they were there selling illegal stuff. Like I mentioned earlier, go sell an old Windows 7 activation key without offering a piece of hardware and your listing will get taken down and you'll get a message for violating Micosoft's terms for selling the product. Microsoft does not sue Ebay. Ebay works with Microsoft and when Microsoft points out listings that violate their terms, Ebay will promptly take them down. So if you see a seller that's been around for awhile, not banned, and sold thousands of Microsoft product successfully, that seller is selling a legit product that does not violate Microsoft's terms for selling the product.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: msmob on December 15, 2019, 10:06:34 AM
Who is buying dodgy MS Office  software when you can use the likes of Libre Office and Google docs?

Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on December 15, 2019, 11:06:28 AM
It says right on Microsoft's website for academic versions, unlimited people get to use it after a qualified person in school signs up for it.

Earlier I put links to sellers who sold on Ebay for years and sold thousands of Office software. Microsoft and Ebay allows them to sell. They didn't just sneak through the cracks and for years nobody knew they were there selling illegal stuff. Like I mentioned earlier, go sell an old Windows 7 activation key without offering a piece of hardware and your listing will get taken down and you'll get a message for violating Micosoft's terms for selling the product. Microsoft does not sue Ebay. Ebay works with Microsoft and when Microsoft points out listings that violate their terms, Ebay will promptly take them down. So if you see a seller that's been around for awhile, not banned, and sold thousands of Microsoft product successfully, that seller is selling a legit product that does not violate Microsoft's terms for selling the product.


Billy,


You are wrong. Spent 10 years working at Microsoft. You cannot get a legal copy of Office for what you saw on the Ebay link. Office 365 is a SaaS (Software as a Service) product. You have to pay either monthly or yearly for a subscription. Academic institutions get a discount, but you have to be verified by that institutions domain address (e.g. myschool.edu). If you run an Office product (Word, Excel, PowerPoint) offline, eventually you will be asked to get online to enter your credentials. This works the same for MSDN (now My Visual Studio) subscriptions.


If you want to buy pirated copies of software, that is up to you. Since I am a software developer and you are stealing software and you are a contractor, why don't you come over and fix my roof for free? Sounds fair to me.


HDL
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2019, 12:03:22 PM
You are wrong. Spent 10 years working at Microsoft. You cannot get a legal copy of Office for what you saw on the Ebay link.


Microsoft is a very big and complicated company. 10 years is not enough to know all the ins and outs. I spend tens of thousands on Ebay every year to buy parts for my other business. One can not simply sell illegal stuff on Ebay without Ebay taking action. Ebay wants to stay in business and keep their reputation clean. They don't want to get sued, especially by the most powerful companies on earth. On products like software, Ebay will work with the software companies to remove any listing they feel is violating their terms to sell the product. There are sellers that sold there for years and sold thousands of Microsoft products without their listing getting removed or them getting banned. That is the clue they are legit. Listing that get removed soon after popping up is a clue those listings don't meet the terms required to sell Microsoft product. Why does Microsoft allow this? My guess is to take advantage of tax breaks maximum allowable by the law.

If you want to buy pirated copies of software, that is up to you. Since I am a software developer and you are stealing software and you are a contractor, why don't you come over and fix my roof for free? Sounds fair to me.


I use a free office program called OpenOffice. I bought my wife Microsoft Office off Ebay for her studies and after this discussion, I've learned the Academic versions can be had for low cost or free right on Microsoft's website. I overpaid. I don't do roofs but I will if you're willing to overpay me.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 15, 2019, 12:37:42 PM
That's it?   Microsoft is a big and complicated company?

I'm wondering how many people actually think that Microsoft is inviting people (you know, as a charitable contribution to the industry like he argued above) to buy licenses for Office 365 on the internet for under $5.00?   But if you buy it, you can't use your email address because it already has someone else's email address attached to it.

I think we should run a poll here.   Anyone willing?

Duh!

Lee, you old dog, you.  Glad to see you posting.

Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on December 15, 2019, 02:10:07 PM
Microsoft is a very big and complicated company. 10 years is not enough to know all the ins and outs. I spend tens of thousands on Ebay every year to buy parts for my other business. One can not simply sell illegal stuff on Ebay without Ebay taking action. Ebay wants to stay in business and keep their reputation clean. They don't want to get sued, especially by the most powerful companies on earth. On products like software, Ebay will work with the software companies to remove any listing they feel is violating their terms to sell the product. There are sellers that sold there for years and sold thousands of Microsoft products without their listing getting removed or them getting banned. That is the clue they are legit. Listing that get removed soon after popping up is a clue those listings don't meet the terms required to sell Microsoft product. Why does Microsoft allow this? My guess is to take advantage of tax breaks maximum allowable by the law.

I use a free office program called OpenOffice. I bought my wife Microsoft Office off Ebay for her studies and after this discussion, I've learned the Academic versions can be had for low cost or free right on Microsoft's website. I overpaid. I don't do roofs but I will if you're willing to overpay me.


There are no "ins and outs" in this situation. This is a black and white situation. Microsoft only gives such sharp discounts to educational institutions or possibly, I repeat possibly, to a very large corporation. One with hundreds of thousands employees. But, good for you for buying it from a sketchy Ebay source. Oh, and you buying stuff off Ebay, is not equivalent to someone working for the company in question.


HDL
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on December 15, 2019, 02:12:06 PM
That's it?   Microsoft is a big and complicated company?

I'm wondering how many people actually think that Microsoft is inviting people (you know, as a charitable contribution to the industry like he argued above) to buy licenses for Office 365 on the internet for under $5.00?   But if you buy it, you can't use your email address because it already has someone else's email address attached to it.

I think we should run a poll here.   Anyone willing?

Duh!

Lee, you old dog, you.  Glad to see you posting.


Hi Buddy. I lurk on here occasionally. I have to say that Billy is willing to rob more than the cradle.  >:D :crackwhip:


HDL
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2019, 03:15:09 PM
This is a black and white situation.


Yes, this is a black and white situation but you don't know all the ins and outs of the rules. People who don't sell Microsoft products on Ebay legitimately get their listings removed and if they do it multiple times, they get banned. Those who sell the proper way get to stay and sell Microsoft products for years. Guy in listing below been on ebay 16 years and has recently sold nearly 3000 Microsoft Office 365

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Office-365-2016-2019-Pro-Plus-5-Device-PC-MAC-Not-Key-10s-Delivery/163930879848?hash=item262b0ab768:g:MPoAAOSwSKJdpSwr

I think we should run a poll here. 


A poll doesn't get to decide Microsoft's rules to selling their product. It's a good thing for them many people think like you pertaining to this issue on their software. You can get Windows 10 Pro for $199 or for free on Microsoft's website. Your choice.

All this doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense Microsoft can pass out their Office 365 software for near nothing or free and let unlimited users, which isn't defined, use it. It's like Marlboro passing out free cigarettes at schools. Get people hooked on the product and write off the freebies as a loss. There are legitimate freebies out there. Microsoft allows it. It's up to you if you want some. Next time I install Microsoft Office on my wife's Mac, I will get it off Microsoft's website for students instead of overpaying at Ebay.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 15, 2019, 04:08:29 PM
Yes, this is a black and white situation but you don't know all the ins and outs of the rules. People who don't sell Microsoft products on Ebay legitimately get their listings removed and if they do it multiple times, they get banned. Those who sell the proper way get to stay and sell Microsoft products for years. Guy in listing below been on ebay 16 years and has recently sold nearly 3000 Microsoft Office 365

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Office-365-2016-2019-Pro-Plus-5-Device-PC-MAC-Not-Key-10s-Delivery/163930879848?hash=item262b0ab768:g:MPoAAOSwSKJdpSwr

A poll doesn't get to decide Microsoft's rules to selling their product. It's a good thing for them many people think like you pertaining to this issue on their software. You can get Windows 10 Pro for $199 or for free on Microsoft's website. Your choice.

All this doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense Microsoft can pass out their Office 365 software for near nothing or free and let unlimited users, which isn't defined, use it. It's like Marlboro passing out free cigarettes at schools. Get people hooked on the product and write off the freebies as a loss. There are legitimate freebies out there. Microsoft allows it. It's up to you if you want some. Next time I install Microsoft Office on my wife's Mac, I will get it off Microsoft's website for students instead of overpaying at Ebay.

No, I believe that life is too short to take shortcuts that don't mean anything.  The fact that licensees are using someone else's account only proves that the license is not being used the way Microsoft intended it to be used.  Whether the situation is actionable or whether Microsoft just doesn't care to prosecute has no bearing on me because there are many more important things in my life.   And my guess is that you won't have many takers on this forum because most of us are way past the type of thinking that embodies your use of someone else's license that you have not proved you have the rights to.

For one of our companies, our team uses Microsoft Outlook.   I could not imagine trying to wedge someone else's account in there and to depend on that license to for all of the email applications we use.   Historically, I have found that it is better to pay the license fee for software used and have support and updates as necessary than to try and cheap things out with no recourse.

But everyone on the forum knows that this user will argue until he's blue in the face rather than admit that he is using a license for something other than what it is intended for, even thought he has a Microsoft software engineer telling him otherwise.

As an aside, and I have already copped to this, but every time you watch a movie that is provided by an unlicensed third party service, you are violating the licensing of that intellectual property right.   The fact that it is not cost effective for the owner of the movie to sue violation of the end-user access does not make the watching of that movie legal.   

I remember when the Torrent providers were out there.   I think that ThePirateBay is the last one active, if I am not mistaken.   There were, probably thirty or so that were active, giving away movies, books, software licenses, etc.   One by one, the FCC or whatever governing authority shut them down.   They could not easily get to them so they had to zorch them (I realize that I am using a colloquial term) by flooding them with hits.  I think I read that ThePirateBay went from Sweden to Latvia to Ukraine and so on, to keep the servers active.   I just checked.   They are on ThePirateBay 10 now.   I am assuming that ThePirateBay 1-9 got taken out.

I would also surmise that Microsoft will probably do something like this in the future, making those licenses inoperable. But I am also willing to bet that they aren't intentionally giving away licenses like cigarettes.  One of my favorite books by my favorite author growing up was 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress' by Robert Heinlein.  In it, he wrote that there is "No Such Thing as a Free Lunch".   Eventually you wind up paying more for the lunch than you saved. 

While I won't comment on this particular user any more than this one specific situation, I have seen many instances where the free lunch adage rang true.

Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2019, 05:02:40 PM
Whether the situation is actionable or whether Microsoft just doesn't care


Microsoft does care and will have listings that don't meet their terms removed off Ebay or any platform that sell their products. Just because some people don't like the price they're seeing on Ebay gets them to believe it's all illegal. Microsoft themselves allow free software to be downloaded off their website or you can pay $199. There's no secret webpage Microsoft passes out to certain qualified people or webpage only authorize users can download the software after inputting user name and password. Windows 10 Pro ISO can be downloaded by all for free.

Instead of making theories what can and can't happen with Microsoft products, show me where it's illegal to sell Microsoft products on Ebay. A lot of arguing about it but nobody shown me anything in writing. I need more than theories to change my mind. It's legal to sell Microsoft products there for whatever the price you want. The trick is to figure out how to comply with their terms to sell the product so your listing doesn't get removed. When it comes to academic version of Office 365, they only say what the qualifications of the person who is signing up has to be and don't define who the "unlimited users" need to be. We have people on the forum making up rules for Microsoft products that Microsoft themselves has not created.

Some of you actually believe Microsoft doesn't designate at least one employee to scour the internet and shut down listing or sites that allow illegal sales and they tolerate pirates. Ebay will easily respect intellectual rights of property owners and take down listings that violate the rights of those owners based on their policy alone. Allowing the sales of illegal products by pirates without enforcement is a quick way to go out of business. The Microsoft listings that are allowed to remain have been allowed to remain by Microsoft. Like I said before, I tried to sell an old Windows 7 activation key off a broken computer. My listing was quickly removed with a warning. After I listed the same product and included a broken motherboard with that key, I was in compliance with the rules to sell a Win 7 key and I eventually sold the key for $15. Somebody is watching and removing listings that violate Microsoft terms to sell their products on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/selling-policies/intellectual-property-vero-program?id=4349

I'll be in Mexico for a week so I won't be able to debate this after today. You can legally pay more or less for a Microsoft product. In some cases get it free. It's all up to you to figure it out.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 15, 2019, 05:16:45 PM
You're using someone else's account.   Duh!   You can argue in circles and claim that because they're not prosecuting that the (supposed) license you're buying from someone else who may or may not have bought a license is legal.  But it is a facile argument.  To claim that Microsoft has given permission because ebay doesn't kick these guys off is just plain silly.  My guess is you would want to run away from this argument.  Because I'm willing to bet, since you're using someone else's account that there is NO PLACE that you sign a Microsoft end user agreement.

Think what you want.   I'm willing to bet that everyone on the forum, but you, thinks like the three posters who have shot you down.   Any takers for Billy's sense of entitlement?   No?  I didn't think so.

Don't worry.  You can go to Mexico and feel safe that we won't talk about your errors.   I think it has been displayed enough for everyone but you to understand that you're wrong.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2019, 06:12:03 PM
You're using someone else's account.   Duh!   


That's what the unlimited people Microsoft allows to do. Duh! One qualified person signs up and is allowed to have unlimited people on their account. If you don't like Microsoft's rules, don't get mad at me, get mad at them.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 15, 2019, 06:25:15 PM
Every user has an end license agreement.  Where is yours?  With a guy that may or may not have signed up, but you don't know?  But you say, with perfect authority, that the person you bought that software from has an UNLIMITED license?   Show me an end license agreement and you're home free.   There isn't one.

Come on, Billy!  Humor us!  Show us your license!  Surely you can call the guy you bought the software from for $3.95 and he will show you a license?  Nobody is mad at you.   You just don't admit when you're wrong. 

I was on the subway in NYC one time.  A guy was walking up and down the subway cars offering DVDs of recent movies.  The movies were five bucks.  People were buying them.   But everyone knew it wasn't right.

Again, is there anyone here who actually believes Billy?
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2019, 07:21:25 PM
Every user has an end license agreement.  Where is yours?  With a guy that may or may not have signed up, but you don't know?  But you say, with perfect authority, that the person you bought that software from has an UNLIMITED license?


If somebody wants to sign up for the academic version of Office that allows them to have unlimited users, they have to supply an email to an accredited school. Usually that email had edu in the address. Microsoft verifies it and allows that person to have Office and unlimited users on their account.

Show us your license!  Surely you can call the guy you bought the software from for $3.95 and he will show you a license?  Nobody is mad at you.   You just don't admit when you're wrong. 


I didn't buy my wife an academic version that needs somebody elses license. I bought her her own license of Office 2019. In the link below is the instructions on how to activate Office 2016-19 version. Down the list is the step where you input the license. Microsoft servers will validate that license or tell you it's not valid. The one I bought is valid so Microsoft activated my wife's office program on her Mac.

http://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vT2GBr0ydDLWcfzGzQLW3NTaS4q8GgG-tO4ZNmmA__SjzJVY_rWLyfGU3MnofAwZLOZGfOfu8U1XqHt/pub

When you read rules to something, you see more there than there is. When I see a product that's for unlimited users and unlimited users isn't defined, then it's good for the qualified person's classmates, entire school, family, friends and strangers. Unlimited users means unlimited users and if restrictions aren't there, don't make stuff up. Now if you feel Ebay sellers are doing wrong and want to save the world, contact Microsoft and tell them unauthorized people are selling their products on Ebay since you believe nobody there is authorized.

Look at the link below to see this guy selling office 365 on his account letting buyers know they will sign in with a different email address.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Office-365-2016-2019-Pro-Plus-5-Device-PC-MAC-Not-Key-10s-Delivery/163930879848?hash=item262b0ab768:g:MPoAAOSwSKJdpSwr

Read the bottom of that listing where he adds language that will allow his listing to stand and not be removed. I had to do and write similar stuff when I sold my Windows 7 key but not to the degree this guy did. Below is the language in the listing and when a Microsoft employee in charge of policing things reads it, he/she will allow that persons sales to continue. If a person lists their item the incorrect way, it will be removed since it violates terms to sell the product. You seem resistant to learning new things.

eBay policy country:
"OEM, bundled or recovery software can only be listed when provided with the original hardware, such as a motherboard, hard drive, or a computer sold with the OEM software." - Therefore, this sale includes the original break of the economical repair computer and motherboard.
***important****
For EBAY, these product keys come from scrap computers.
EU law stipulates that sales licenses are legal
You will get a defective motherboard with keys that meet the EBAY OEM software policy requirements.
For delivery details, please contact us before this.
If you require shipping, you may need to bear the freight
If you do not require delivery, we will destroy the waste computer
 
OEM software:
Microsoft's system builder distribution agreement states that system build packages do not apply to end-user distribution unless end users act as system builders by assembling their own PCs. A "system builder" is a person who assembles, reassembles, or installs software on a new or used computer system.
Microsoft policy status:
"Large-brand computer manufacturers such as Dell and Compaq often include OEM software on non-holographic recovery or reinstallation discs that show the manufacturer's brand name. These packages are often marked with a paragraph, such as: ? Use only new Dell PCs for distribution ? Recover or reinstall software that is only released with new computers and can only be redistributed with the computer that was originally distributed to it (eg hard disk; RAM) does not comply with Microsoft's OEM distribution requirements." - Therefore This sale includes the original computer from which COA was taken.
OEM software:
Microsoft's system builder distribution agreement states that system build packages do not apply to end-user distribution unless end users act as system builders by assembling their own PCs. A "system builder" is a person who assembles, reassembles, or installs software on a new or used computer system.
 
This product does not infringe any copyright, trademark or any other rights, or any eBay listing policy or spam policy.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 15, 2019, 07:33:03 PM
 :ROFL:

You still don't get it, do you?   You're paying some idiot on ebay to give you a license that isn't theirs to give.   And you have no way of proving that it is theirs to give.   And you are foregoing the normal support and (possibly) upgrades that come along with it.   You say because ebay doesn't kick them off that there was sufficient oversight for you to buy the license.   Again, no one believes you.   And you won't drop it.

You have rationalized this so much, in your mind, along with your desire not to be wrong, that you're making a horse's ass out of yourself...  (Not the first time.)

Amazing Microsoft makes any money at all.   Because obviously, this software is free.   NOT!



Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: ML on December 15, 2019, 07:39:13 PM


Amazing Microsoft makes any money at all.   Because obviously, this software is free.   NOT!

Perhaps it's like the printer outfits.
They practically give away their printers.
Then we pay ridiculous prices for the ink.

Microsoft might give away their software.
Then they charge us per each letter we type of spreadsheet we prepare.
We are due to get a huge bill at some point.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 15, 2019, 07:43:04 PM
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/tanstaafl.asp
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2019, 08:03:29 PM

Here's your free Windows 10, Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 download from Microsoft. It's not a free lunch though.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/

Most people don't know this but you do not need a key to use any one of those Microsoft products. Without activation you won't get updates and won't be able to use certain features but those products can be used free.

Here is Microsoft ToS for those products. Activation is not a requirement.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/intellectualproperty/copyright/default.aspx

I have no interest getting into the $3 key selling business. It's worth it to some people. Some try to sell and don't understand their rights. Their listings get removed. Others know their rights and post it on their listing which allows them to sell Microsoft keys to certain products. This can be a valuable learning experience but certain people don't think it's legally possible to do what some people do on Ebay. I understand it and I feel I'm buying a legit key from a legit seller who has the rights to sell those keys.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: SteveInBoston on December 15, 2019, 08:17:03 PM
That's what the unlimited people Microsoft allows to do. Duh! One qualified person signs up and is allowed to have unlimited people on their account. If you don't like Microsoft's rules, don't get mad at me, get mad at them.

You seem to keep ignoring the fact, on the microsoft site, it CLEARLY STATES $x.xx PER USER/MONTH.

The plan lets the organization add as many users at the same rate.  If it's $2.50/month (for student A3 package), then if 200 students are registered, then the cost for the school is $500/month.  If 1,000,000, then $2,500,000 per month, etc.

Also, with an annual committment.  The minimum cost for the school, for 1 million students, is $30,000,000, payed in monthly $2.5 million installments.

And it is not all on the registered administrator's account.  The administrator has full access to add or remove plan participants.  Each user will need a microsoft account, which can be their school email address.




Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 15, 2019, 08:20:25 PM
But, but, but .......

It is a lifetime license and the person selling it can have as many users as they wish.   So, Steve, you can't be right.   Because ebay did not kick off the advertisement.   That's right.   Unlimited number of users.   Free.  Because they are trying to hook new users on Office, like cigarettes given to teenagers.

And we're all stupid because we don't take advantage of it.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: Grumpy on December 15, 2019, 08:57:50 PM
I prefer FOSS (free open source software). The choices are plentiful, with good programs for everything, and the price is free (donations are appreciated). I do understand that it may not work for everybody (mostly those who need compatibility with employer's software). That said, Microsoft and others have been doing a lot of work lately on compatibility with Linux software. There is also software available for running Windows software on Linux.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2019, 09:24:05 PM
You seem to keep ignoring the fact, on the microsoft site, it CLEARLY STATES $x.xx PER USER/MONTH.

The plan lets the organization add as many users at the same rate.  If it's $2.50/month (for student A3 package), then if 200 students are registered, then the cost for the school is $500/month.  If 1,000,000, then $2,500,000 per month, etc.

Also, with an annual committment.  The minimum cost for the school, for 1 million students, is $30,000,000, payed in monthly $2.5 million installments.


What is the total cost of the free A1 version of Office 365 multiplied by infinity(unlimited users) per month and year? Does that cost scare anybody?

I prefer FOSS (free open source software). The choices are plentiful, with good programs for everything, and the price is free


I prefer free and cheap stuff too. Microsoft knows there are people like us out there so to keep us using their products, they provide a lot for free. It's not advertised so most people like jone still thinks paying full price is the only legal way to obtain Microsoft products. If my hard drive goes bad , I will install a new hard drive in my computer and I will choose the free Windows 10 Pro OS I can download right off Microsoft's website. If it would cost me $199 for that OS, I would go with the free Linux OS. If Microsoft lets any free OS become the ideal choice for most people, they'll have real competitors on their hands. Can't let that happen so market strategy may be to allow for some product to be sold cheap or offered free and getting tax breaks in return. For now, they've kept me as a customer. I'm sure jone's eyes are rolling after reading that.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: jone on December 15, 2019, 10:07:57 PM
Why would my eyes roll?  You keep coming back to the same thing:  Someone selling a key on the internet that is not accompanied by a license:  The use of someone else's account.  And you don't see the double standard for doing that and think you are smart.  You have tried to justify it multiple ways.   Even to the extent that you try and explain that using such software does not require a license. 

The vast majority of users on this forum have resolved themselves in business and personal conduct years ago.   Your penny-ante stuff not only is unattractive to the bulk of these users that have defined themselves, but demonstrates a class of action that is not in their interests.   I'm not saying that you are less than they are in the method of doing business, it is just not attractive to them.

I probably pay around $600 annually for various software licenses.   But our licenses are maintained and there is a file in one of the computers that has all of those licenses were someone to inquire.

I remember a time, many years ago.  I had just purchased my dream home and I was doing some rock work around the yard.   A skilled artisan was recommended to me and he came and did the work for a very reasonable fee.  A couple of weeks later, a friend of mine, who owns a few gas stations, mentioned that he needed some rock work done.   I recommended this guy.   Later, I asked how the work had turned out.   I discovered that the guy did not use my rock guy because he was not a contractor and could produce no contractor's license.  While it didn't matter to my personal work, the city in which we live in would not allow the work to be signed off if not done by a contractor.   I was somewhat humiliated by the experience, realizing that I should have known that before recommending him.

Now, I'm sure my friend could have used the guy and found a way around the contractor's requirement.   But that is not the way he did business.   And I learned a valuable lesson.  The initial post regarding the desire to use licensed software was a sincere one, without rancor.   Billy's insistence that he was right (when everyone knows he wasn't) carried this thread forward.   And he heaped the manure on himself, not anyone else.   Frankly, I feel sorry for him.   As the lesson that I had to learn at the hands of my friend escapes Billy and I'm sure it always will.



Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2019, 10:55:43 PM
Someone selling a key on the internet that is not accompanied by a license:


An activation key that you buy to activate a Microsoft product is your license to use the product. Before the software becomes activated, the key is checked by Microsoft computers to see if it's legitimate. Go offline if you want a Microsoft employee to verify the key is legit. Microsoft doesn't activate bogus keys.

you try and explain that using such software does not require a license. 


I gave you the link to download Windows 10 for free. Install it on a new hard drive on your computer. If you're already using windows 10, the key is stored in your motherboard so it will activate a new copy of windows so download Windows 8.1 instead. After download you will be able to use the operating system but some features will not be available. You will only use what Microsoft allows you to use without an activation key and you will get the annoying message the Windows is not activated and may not be genuine although you downloaded it from Microsoft's website. Microsoft will never send a message to somebody they are illegally using their  product without a key. Maybe because it's not illegal?

The use of someone else's account.


Nobody in my house uses someone elses account. Those who are selling Office on Ebay and been there for years are allowed to sell the way they do. They state their rights at the bottom of their listing and Microsoft allows them to continue to sell. Find a listing with a new seller that has few feedback with a generic listing and listing no rights of theirs. Save the page on your desktop. Revisit it in a few days and you'll find the listing taken down. So you can learn who's legit and who's not legit but instead you make the assumption everybody on ebay isn't legit when you have zero knowledge of the subject.

I probably pay around $600 annually for various software licenses.


Wonderful. You can help Microsoft make profit and pay more taxes buying legitimate products. I'll help Microsoft get tax breaks on legitimate products they allow to sell on ebay cheap. If we both sleep good at night, it's a win win. When my wife's Microsoft Office 2019 gets old, I may consider enrolling her for an academic version of Office 365 for cheap or free right off Microsoft's website.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: GQBlues on December 16, 2019, 09:21:19 AM
Funny exchanges...

Billy-

I agree it's good to be diligent and prudent in trying to watch your expenses most of the time, but you do realize this expense, FWIW, is a business expense. Even if it isn't in your case...is $500-600.00/year really worth this much trouble these days with all the other things far more important to spend your time on?

You know, like posting on RWD. :devil:
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on December 16, 2019, 10:39:43 AM
An activation key that you buy to activate a Microsoft product is your license to use the product. Before the software becomes activated, the key is checked by Microsoft computers to see if it's legitimate. Go offline if you want a Microsoft employee to verify the key is legit. Microsoft doesn't activate bogus keys.

I gave you the link to download Windows 10 for free. Install it on a new hard drive on your computer. If you're already using windows 10, the key is stored in your motherboard so it will activate a new copy of windows so download Windows 8.1 instead. After download you will be able to use the operating system but some features will not be available. You will only use what Microsoft allows you to use without an activation key and you will get the annoying message the Windows is not activated and may not be genuine although you downloaded it from Microsoft's website. Microsoft will never send a message to somebody they are illegally using their  product without a key. Maybe because it's not illegal?

Nobody in my house uses someone elses account. Those who are selling Office on Ebay and been there for years are allowed to sell the way they do. They state their rights at the bottom of their listing and Microsoft allows them to continue to sell. Find a listing with a new seller that has few feedback with a generic listing and listing no rights of theirs. Save the page on your desktop. Revisit it in a few days and you'll find the listing taken down. So you can learn who's legit and who's not legit but instead you make the assumption everybody on ebay isn't legit when you have zero knowledge of the subject.

Wonderful. You can help Microsoft make profit and pay more taxes buying legitimate products. I'll help Microsoft get tax breaks on legitimate products they allow to sell on ebay cheap. If we both sleep good at night, it's a win win. When my wife's Microsoft Office 2019 gets old, I may consider enrolling her for an academic version of Office 365 for cheap or free right off Microsoft's website.


Your software key is NOT the license. When you legally get the key you register it with a Microsoft account (Corporate/Enterprise or Academic account). A Microsoft account is a live.com, hotmail.com, outlook.com and possibly gmail.com for personal/home use. I have two 0365 accounts. One is payed for through my employer, the other is personal and comes as a benefit for my paid membership in the Microsoft Alumni Association. You can find pirated license keys in many locations, it is why they are going with the subscription model, where you have to verify your identity periodically by re-entering your credentials.


Microsoft's premier developers tool, Visual Studio, requires that I log in once a month to verify that my MyVisualStudio subscription (formerly MSDN) is current. You can defend theft all you want. That is between you and your conscience. As others have said, there are Open Source alternatives available. If you cannot afford less than $10/month for the premier office software suite, you have OSS packages to use.


You choosing this hill to die on is stupid. I have sat in rooms with CEO's and a MSFT sales team post Enterprise Agreement Audits. I have seen CEO's go pale when they discover that their employee's have been passing out license keys to friends and family. They end up writing large checks to make this right.


I have family that think that stealing music, movies and software is not a crime. I ask them this question: Would you think it is OK to walk out of a grocery store with a full cart without paying? NO! they answer.


My roof still needs to be repaired, Billy. I think free is a good cost. Do you?


HDL
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: GQBlues on December 16, 2019, 11:43:35 AM
...I have family that think that stealing music, movies and software is not a crime.

Maybe I wasn't fully versed about the ultimate decision made on the argument against Napster.  But I'm still on the fence why it was deemed 'illegal', or why it is considered thievery.

If I *paid* for music (or anything), then decided to share it with a family or friends; they in turn return the favor of sharing theirs with me; and so forth and so on - not one of us is 'profiting' monetarily on these 'sharing' - how is that defined as theft? How is it against any law that I share things I already bought and paid for? Where does this stop?

I can see the crime only if people profit monetarily for the exchange. I know the argument made was 'loss of revenue' because artists loses monies as it halted further sales of their 'products'. If I let my neighbor borrow my vacuum cleaner once a month, am I causing Hoover loss of revenue?

Fine, but I think the bigger crime before the birth of the internet was the record producers during the introduction of CDs as it phased out audio tapes and turntable records. I still remember these idiots advertising to the public that the CD technology caused dramatic cost reductions compared to manufacturing of tapes and records. The obvious reasons were both in the drastic reduction in material and labor costs it takes to produce an album. At the time, a cost of $12.00-$15.00/album was supposedly a *temporary* charge to give them time to properly gauge how much the actual savings will be for the public. They felt they owed it to the public that they too should also reap the benefit of the new technology. They projected then that in a year's time price changes will be made. 20 years passed and nothing changed.

We all whistle the happy tunes of capitalism boys..
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 16, 2019, 12:02:42 PM
HDL, if you go on Microsoftís community forums none of them employees will say itís illegal to selll Microsoft on EBay because itís not illegal.  Microsoft doesnít get to make all the rules. If a seller posts his rights based off government law, they can sell Microsoft products. If one buys a key that is stolen or fake, Microsoft doesnít have to activate the product since they control the verification process. With the invention of computers they can monitor what employees took what keys, void those keys and fire the employees. Itís hard to believe Microsoft has no idea about how to monitor their inventory unless they want enough loss to achieve paying zero taxes for the year. 

GQ, I donít spend a lot of time figuring out how to save money . Its easy to figure out legit sellers from scammers. Itís easier to figure them out than figuring out women. I use free office software anyway. I donít need to be cool owning name brand software.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: GQBlues on December 16, 2019, 12:19:32 PM
HDL, if you go on Microsoftís community forums none of them employees will say itís illegal to selll Microsoft on EBay because itís not illegal.  Microsoft doesnít get to make all the rules. If a seller posts his rights based off government law, they can sell Microsoft products. If one buys a key that is stolen or fake, Microsoft doesnít have to activate the product since they control the verification process. With the invention of computers they can monitor what employees took what keys, void those keys and fire the employees. Itís hard to believe Microsoft has no idea about how to monitor their inventory unless they want enough loss to achieve paying zero taxes for the year. 

GQ, I donít spend a lot of time figuring out how to save money . Its easy to figure out legit sellers from scammers. Itís easier to figure them out than figuring out women. I use free office software anyway. I donít need to be cool owning name brand software.

All of this is about $$, Billy. It depends on who gets to keep the bigger chunk of it that will undoubtedly make the rule.

Hell, look at your driving tickets...it used to be the government gave citizens a choice when we commit an infraction. The consequence then wasn't about punishing an offender, but educating one. You either 'pay' the penalty or choose to attend traffic school and learn to be a better driver for the next time. If you choose the latter, they waive the penalty fee and you simply provide them the certificate of your school attendance. You do have to pay for the cost of the traffic school. That's it. Objective accomplished.

LMAO! Now, well, you know..
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on December 16, 2019, 01:16:12 PM
Maybe I wasn't fully versed about the ultimate decision made on the argument against Napster.  But I'm still on the fence why it was deemed 'illegal', or why it is considered thievery.

If I *paid* for music (or anything), then decided to share it with a family or friends; they in turn return the favor of sharing theirs with me; and so forth and so on - not one of us is 'profiting' monetarily on these 'sharing' - how is that defined as theft? How is it against any law that I share things I already bought and paid for? Where does this stop?

I can see the crime only if people profit monetarily for the exchange. I know the argument made was 'loss of revenue' because artists loses monies as it halted further sales of their 'products'. If I let my neighbor borrow my vacuum cleaner once a month, am I causing Hoover loss of revenue?

Fine, but I think the bigger crime before the birth of the internet was the record producers during the introduction of CDs as it phased out audio tapes and turntable records. I still remember these idiots advertising to the public that the CD technology caused dramatic cost reductions compared to manufacturing of tapes and records. The obvious reasons were both in the drastic reduction in material and labor costs it takes to produce an album. At the time, a cost of $12.00-$15.00/album was supposedly a *temporary* charge to give them time to properly gauge how much the actual savings will be for the public. They felt they owed it to the public that they too should also reap the benefit of the new technology. They projected then that in a year's time price changes will be made. 20 years passed and nothing changed.

We all whistle the happy tunes of capitalism boys..


It does rip off the artists that create the music. I agree that the record companies were and continue to be draconian. I am talking about the creators. If Microsoft doesn't get paid for it's software, it stops paying the developers. If a musicians music is spread around after a single purchase, then eventually that musician will have to find another career. So we can quibble about what defines a theft, but if I am a songwriter, then record and release my music, then it is my IP. If you like it, then pay for it.


Napster was the best distributor of virus's and malware, ever created.


I am done "dick measuring" on this thread. Buy, steal, whatever floats your boat. And some folks wonder why I don't post here much...


HDL
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2019, 02:06:31 PM
Perhaps it's like the printer outfits.
They practically give away their printers.
Then we pay ridiculous prices for the ink.

Microsoft might give away their software.
Then they charge us per each letter we type of spreadsheet we prepare.
We are due to get a huge bill at some point.

Throw in the planned obsolesce 0f printers and it is a killer.
Finding a printer suddenly not talking to the computer/s is extremely frustrating.
Recently had this happen ( again) while holding extensive ink reserves etc . Needing print urgently bought the el cheapo giveaway price printer because it was cheaper than ink cartridges to buy--only to find only basic ink included  etc 
A PIA in capitals .
When I had time to research a little went back out and bought decent printer with decent ink life - all smiles again now !
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: GQBlues on December 16, 2019, 03:00:23 PM

It does rip off the artists that create the music. I agree that the record companies were and continue to be draconian. I am talking about the creators. If Microsoft doesn't get paid for it's software, it stops paying the developers. If a musicians music is spread around after a single purchase, then eventually that musician will have to find another career. So we can quibble about what defines a theft, but if I am a songwriter, then record and release my music, then it is my IP. If you like it, then pay for it.


Napster was the best distributor of virus's and malware, ever created.


I am done "dick measuring" on this thread. Buy, steal, whatever floats your boat. And some folks wonder why I don't post here much...

HDL

Taylor Swift, N.W.A. George Michael, Queen, Pendergrass, et al understand this isn't exactly reality, and it had nothing to do with intellectual property theft.

HDL-

Upthread I mentioned having already spent 2-3 Gs *buying* songs for my playlist at iTunes. I don't mind it really as this is the world we live in. But for the unit price of $1.29/song, or an average of $11-12.00/album, comparatively, this IS 'thievery' since virtual retail distribution is even far more cost-effective than the age of compact disc market - yet the price/album is literally unchanged still.

Add: Not aware of any songwriter who is on dire straits these days because of IP theft. If any of them are chances are its because of *illegal* drugs more so than IP theft or loss of revenue. Record sales is BUT one way for these folks to rake in their millions. Thievery are the multiple hands found between the concert ticket offices from the artist's fanbase. Hell, when the Grammy's roll out on the tube, most of these folks you see adorn themselves with more glitter and bling that literally cost more than the average fan John/Jane Doe's annual salary.

Make no mistake however, me personally, I just don't bother. I don't pay for anything if I've no use for it or would like to have. If something proves invaluable to me, or my life's daily needs/wants, I can't be bothered looking for ways to cut corners, nickel/dime it, or any other questionable options, whether legitimate or otherwise. The trouble simply isn't worth it to me.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: Faux Pas on December 16, 2019, 03:34:25 PM

Upthread I mentioned having already spent 2-3 Gs *buying* songs for my playlist at iTunes. I don't mind it really as this is the world we live in. But for the unit price of $1.29/song, or an average of $11-12.00/album, comparatively, this IS 'thievery' since virtual retail distribution is even far more cost-effective than the age of compact disc market - yet the price/album is literally unchanged still.

I did the same thing. Apple's sales pitch at the time was "you'll own the songs for life". They will always be in your library. I even loaded many of the CDs I had at the time. . I was fat dumb and happy for a while thinking I didn't need to anything but buy my music from Itunes. One day all of the sudden only a very small fraction of my purchased music was available including the CDs I loaded. The rest I had to pay a subscription for. Of course they say paying the subscription is for unlimited music but what happened to what I already paid for? I did call and raise hell. Apparently I agreed to something later that permitted them to do that to me.



I am done "dick measuring" on this thread. Buy, steal, whatever floats your boat. And some folks wonder why I don't post here much...


HDL

C'mon brother, if you're just posting where everyone agrees with you, you're definitely in the wrong place. That particular subject is circular. Some will never view it as theft no matter how succinctly you put it. Don't be so sensitive
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 16, 2019, 04:44:20 PM
HDL, you got a special place in your heart for Microsoft. I get it but people are allowed to sell Microsoft products on EBay legally and buyers are not thieves. Microsoft intellectual property police do remove Ebay listings that violates their rights but they canít violate rights of sellers if they list the items the proper way required by Microsoft
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: GQBlues on December 16, 2019, 05:12:08 PM
HDL, you got a special place in your heart for Microsoft. I get it but people are allowed to sell Microsoft products on EBay legally and buyers are not thieves. Microsoft intellectual property police do remove Ebay listings that violates their rights but they canít violate rights of sellers if they list the items the proper way required by Microsoft


Billy-

While this may not have anything to do with IP, but in the vein of 'looking for cheaper options'...sometimes one must pick and choose the battles they face. Most of them are just no longer worth fighting for at certain level/times in our lives.

Take for instance, subjects that affect many of us in this venture. For example apartments vs. hotels, flights, etc...IMHO, I don't mind paying the extra expense for a non-stop flight to anywhere, than save a few hundred dollars having one or two layovers. Just as I don't mind having to pay the extra dollars staying at the comfort of a luxury hotels than to stay at those apartments in questionable neighborhoods I do not know in countries I've never been or frequent to. Or buying knock-offs of pricey items like for instance golf clubs.

We get what we pay for. If I subscribe to MS's products because I rely on them for my livelihood, I'm willing to pay what they ask for. This will also apply to a carpenter's tools, or in our case, the best equipment that can do our jobs. But I do realize we are all different...It's just to me, this subject of software pricing seem so relatively inexpensive considering....you know.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 18, 2019, 11:08:17 AM

For example apartments vs. hotels, flights, etc...IMHO, I don't mind paying the extra expense for a non-stop flight to anywhere, than save a few hundred dollars having one or two layovers. Just as I don't mind having to pay the extra dollars staying at the comfort of a luxury hotels than to stay at those apartments in questionable neighborhoods I do not know in countries I've never been or frequent to. Or buying knock-offs of pricey items like for instance golf clubs.


When people buy Microsoft products on eBay they are not getting Motel 6 quality rooms. They are getting five star rooms. They are getting the real deal that Microsoft themselves will activate.

Itís a apparent Microsoft has done a very good marketing campaign to get people to believe they have no right to share or sell their products after initial purchase. Ford, Sony and other companies Wish they could get people to believe they cannot share their vehicle or TV or any other merchandise or resell them to other people too.

  So people who do a good job following the rules and stating their rights on an eBay listing gets to have their listing remain. Microsoft intellectual police will then have other listings removed and Ebay will comply. For the sellers who have their listings removed, it doesnít mean they are scammers or selling illegal or inferior product. Most likely the product is legit Microsoft. Itís just that they donít know they need to state their rights granted by government law while complying with Microsoft TOS in their listing  that allows them to resell Microsoft products to keep Microsoft from having Ebay from removing their listing. Microsoft doesnít want a lawsuit trampling on peopleís rights.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: ML on December 18, 2019, 02:05:45 PM
Ford, Sony and other companies Wish they could get people to believe they cannot share their vehicle or TV or any other merchandise or resell them to other people too.

Not quite the same.  If you have 1 Ford, you can sell it 1 time.

But if you buy 1 item of computer software, you can sell it hundreds of times.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 19, 2019, 08:10:55 AM
Not quite the same.  If you have 1 Ford, you can sell it 1 time.

But if you buy 1 item of computer software, you can sell it hundreds of times.

Governments know this. They have let Microsoft make it difficult to transfer their products so one guy canít sell software to a million people. Most people donít know what they need to do to sell Microsoft products anyway so Microsoft intellectual property police  can often remove listings that do not meet the requirements to sell their products.

 Microsoft has already changed their strategy. To combat piracy they give out the software for free. Itís the activation that cost money. That they can control. HDL gave us a hint Microsoft employees would steal caseloads of paper activation keys and sell them.  Activation keys these days or digital and the number is stored in the motherboard instead of on a paper key on the side of a computer where itís easy for people to write down the number and pass it around. Microsoft has the option to discontinue a digital key after one time use if they want. If a hacker steals a huge block of activation keys Microsoft can void those keys if they want. The keys sold on eBay are Probably bought in the thousands or tens of thousands cheaply and resold  for minimal profit  since the keys are roughly 3 dollars apiece.  I donít have experience on the office sharing programs that are listed on eBay where you buy access to someone elseís account but I do know Microsoft allows it because most listings get removed and some listings get to stay If they follow the requirements to sell.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: msmob on December 20, 2019, 01:20:31 AM
Silliest BillyB

MS Office has competitors . you can download them - quite legally - for FREE

You can save the work as .docx, xlsx, files ( and more) ..that's MSWord and Excel files

I'm writing on a Linux OS Laptop that has no MS products ( other than Skype ) installed - all FREE - but I choose to donate to the volunteers who save us a fortune..

OS:  Linux Mint 19.2

http://linuxmint.com/ (http://linuxmint.com/)

We have Mac Book Pros, and Mac Mini desktops - as well as PCs - running FAR quicker than the Mac / MS software will run on 4/ 5 year old kit ..

Offic e Software ?

Libre Office v 6.0.7.3

http://www.libreoffice.org/ (http://www.libreoffice.org/)

WHO pays for MS stuff in 2019/20 ... ?;)






Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 24, 2019, 06:11:59 PM
Silliest BillyB

MS Office has competitors . you can download them - quite legally - for FREE


When I told everyone I use OpenOffice which is free office software, it didn't register with you. Thanks for the tip anyway.

I just came back from Cancun. At the resort, I went in to use a computer at their business center to do work and engage with people all over the internet to harass them. All 10 computers there had Windows 10 and none of them were activated. Surprisingly, the message is different than in the past. It said Activate Windows Go to Settings to Activate Windows. The message that the Windows you're using may not be genuine is gone. I attached a photo so you guys can see what I saw in Cancun.

I was at the famous Coco Bongo club. There was a Latina who's butt was grinding on mine often. She was the second hottest woman in the club. My wife was the hottest. Sometimes I'd turn around and she'd smile. She told me it was her birthday and I said "Happy Birthday!" and gave her a hug. She tried to talk to me but I didn't understand and she tole me to learn Espanol.  A few more times throughout the night she told me it's her birthday. One time I turned around and she put her hand on my head and said "It's my birthday!" If I was a single man, I'd give her a birthday present. She was there with co-workers. A couple of guys gave me the jealous look. The were short and looked like office nerds.

I seen a few American dudes with what looked like Mexican girlfriends. Drinks in the club were free after paying to get in. As the night went on, people got loose. One guy's girl got so drunk she went on stage, turned around, pulled up her dress and was twerking her butt to the crowd. She had G-string underwear. Her man may have second thoughts about her being marriage material.

My wife was one of the few natural blondes in the club. When getting some drinks, watching from a distance, I seen some young men taking photos of her. I saw a group of guys encouraging a friend to go talk to me wife. He got the courage to go talk to her and my wife shook her head and turn around. Shortly after he tried to convince her to simply take a selfie with him but he got rejected again.

Walking down the street in Cancun, we were approached by many people who flashed a booklet of nude girls and asked if we needed a girl and cocaine. My wife said we are from a good family. As my wife passed up one woman trying to sell us hookers and cocaine, I stopped and told the woman "Look at her(pointing to my wife as she walked away). That is my wife. Does it look like I need a woman?" She is stunning.

So, in conclusion, you can legally pay more or legally pay less for Microsoft products.
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: msmob on December 24, 2019, 09:31:40 PM
When I told everyone I use OpenOffice which is free office software, it didn't register with you. Thanks for the tip anyway.

What 'registered' with me was the 'point' of the thread ...  given you claim to use OO....

You seem to encounter dodgy software and characters on your travels...
Title: Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
Post by: BillyB on December 26, 2019, 07:13:24 PM

Based on the number of views the girl photo got compared to the computer monitor photo, it's apparent you guy are more interested in girls.