Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Scammers and Suspect Agencies => Topic started by: StPatrick89 on August 15, 2007, 03:35:57 PM

Title: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: StPatrick89 on August 15, 2007, 03:35:57 PM
Has anyone ever used, or heard of this web site, HotRussianBrides.com. I recently joined and was amazed at how many beautiful young women wanted to get to know me. I'm not sure it is a scam or not but they do have a chat service and some girls even have webcams, at an extra cost to you of course. As I was chatting with this beautiful blue eyed goddess and I asked if it would be possible to call her on the phone some time. Her answer was that they don't allow it. Why is that? I see other providers sell the woman's address, phone number, email address. So my question is, is this a scam?
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Ste on August 15, 2007, 03:46:31 PM
Has anyone ever used, or heard of this web site, HotRussianBrides.com. I recently joined and was amazed at how many beautiful young women wanted to get to know me. I'm not sure it is a scam or not but they do have a chat service and some girls even have webcams, at an extra cost to you of course. As I was chatting with this beautiful blue eyed goddess and I asked if it would be possible to call her on the phone some time. Her answer was that they don't allow it. Why is that? I see other providers sell the woman's address, phone number, email address. So my question is, is this a scam?

It is. I mean, look at the name!

It's sex-chat lines with a Russian edge, you might get to jerk off but you'll pay for it, and if there's one thing left in life that's free, it's a quick one off the wrist and good imagination so save your money.






Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Bruno on August 15, 2007, 04:09:21 PM
Has anyone ever used, or heard of this web site, HotRussianBrides.com. I recently joined and was amazed at how many beautiful young women wanted to get to know me. I'm not sure it is a scam or not but they do have a chat service and some girls even have webcams, at an extra cost to you of course. As I was chatting with this beautiful blue eyed goddess and I asked if it would be possible to call her on the phone some time. Her answer was that they don't allow it. Why is that? I see other providers sell the woman's address, phone number, email address. So my question is, is this a scam?

Have you read their rules :

http://www.hotrussianbrides.com/pub/terms.asp
Quote
... Members interested in obtaining personal contact information as defined by the IMBRA, or in arranging in-person meetings with Foreign National Clients, and who have satisfied certain criteria as described below in the “Qualified Members” section, will be referred to an Independent Company/Agency Representative ("ICAR") within the former Soviet Union who will assist him with his request. IPG will not assist with or in any other way facilitate arrangements pertaining to the exchange of personal contact information and/or in-person meetings between the Member and the Foreign National Client....

IPG ( owner of hotrussianbrides ) don't arrange meeting or sell adress... once you are a "qualified members" ( ??? ), you can use "ICAR" for arrange meeting or have contact information... So HRB is only a virtual communication system... you pay for e-mail, chat, gift, etc... the local agency are responsible for all...

More interesting :
Quote
To provide the Services, IPG purchases services from various ICARs located within the former Soviet Union. The ICARs providing services for www.HotRussianBrides.com are independent contractors and are not employees of IPG. IPG is not responsible for the willful or negligent acts of any ICAR or its respective employees, including their failure to deliver services in part or in full. Each ICAR is responsible for validating it's own ladies.

So, if you are scammed, if the girl is not real, or other problem... HRB is not responsible... only local agency are responsible... but they accept your money without problem...

Boys, when you see a sexy babe on a website, don't sign and pay directly... read the text with small font... these about the terms and conditions...
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Jack on August 15, 2007, 04:24:55 PM

Bruno, the man is asking for help and asked a simple question,........"is this a scam?".

Is it possible Bruno you can give this new member your opinion in a simple two or three letter word? 






Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Ste on August 15, 2007, 04:26:38 PM
Bruno, the man is asking for help and asked a simple question,........"is this a scam?".

Is it possible Bruno you can give this new member your opinion in a simple two or three letter word? 

Maybe yes?






Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: BillyB on August 15, 2007, 04:35:51 PM
As I was chatting with this beautiful blue eyed goddess and I asked if it would be possible to call her on the phone some time. Her answer was that they don't allow it. Why is that?

Is this the 18 year old blue eyed blonde online now with her legs spread open and in another pose bent over that you're talking to INNA51?

http://www.hotrussianbrides.com/profile/profile.aspx?toid=206524

If she was ready to get married to you, she'd find a way to get you her number such as typing it to you while you chat with her or slip you a personal e-mail. Maybe she's just a working girl that's willing to talk dirty to paying customers. All she wants is money, not a husband. Also, HRB purposely prohibit you and the girls from exchanging each others contact info because if you happen to get married, they lose a customer and a woman who attracts customers.

Stpatrick89, if you're looking for a fantasy, you're spending your money in the right place at HRB. If you're looking to get married to a sincere family oriented woman, stick around and read to learn where to find them without having head games played with you and getting shafted in the pocketbook.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Ste on August 15, 2007, 04:46:06 PM
Jesus Christ BillyB, I just tried the link and bejesus if ur looking at that crap you be seriously short of a brain.

Mind you, if we got ads here, I'm sure Nadya won't me talking to Natalya from Lugansk with the Shaven Haven while we discuss Checkov's "Tolstiy i Tonkiy' over a quick mutual masturbate...
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Maple Leaf on August 15, 2007, 04:53:08 PM
Jesus Christ BillyB, I just tried the link and bejesus if ur looking at that crap you be seriously short of a brain.

Mind you, if we got ads here, I'm sure Nadya won't me talking to Natalya from Lugansk with the Shaven Haven while we discuss Checkov's "Tolstiy i Tonkiy' over a quick mutual masturbate...

LOL - Ste, you are too funny.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: BillyB on August 15, 2007, 04:56:53 PM
Ste, here's a couple more barely legal family oriented girls looking for a job at the strip club marriage.

http://www.hotrussianbrides.com/profile/profile.aspx?toid=208484

http://www.hotrussianbrides.com/profile/profile.aspx?toid=208629

There seems to be an abundance of girls like this at HRB.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Ste on August 15, 2007, 05:05:27 PM
Ste, here's a couple more barely legal family oriented girls looking for a job at the strip club marriage.

http://www.hotrussianbrides.com/profile/profile.aspx?toid=208484

http://www.hotrussianbrides.com/profile/profile.aspx?toid=208629

There seems to be an abundance of girls like this at HRB.

Mingers.

Now THIS, is sexy....

http://www.apple.com/imac/
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: AnastassiaAsh on August 15, 2007, 05:24:12 PM
LOL - Ste, you are too funny.

yeah, he is, it could be his favourite word.  ;) He can even describe the same thing with different words, did you notice? Wow!  ;)  :ROFL: And he was the very first to reply on this Hot thread. hehehe

Instead of going to Time For Some Humor, I go directly to his posts only. He is definitely gifted with some sharp humor.  :)

Ste, you are the best!  :)
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: AnastassiaAsh on August 15, 2007, 05:27:43 PM
So my question is, is this a scam?

On thier website under Translation page - they completely copied and pasted the text from some other agency/website, I remember reading the same thing before for sure. Maybe it IS one and the same owner of two websites, I don't remember exactly the first one.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Ste on August 15, 2007, 05:32:19 PM
yeah, he is, it could be his favourite word.  ;) He can even describe the same thing with different words, did you notice? Wow!  ;)  :ROFL: And he was the very first to reply on this Hot thread. hehehe

Instead of going to Time For Some Humor, I go directly to his posts only. He is definitely gifted with some sharp humor.  :)

Ste, you are the best!  :)

Thanks! That's 'humour' tho!

Soviet English is British English - you should know that, even now it's the same!
 
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: ScottinCrimea on August 15, 2007, 05:40:05 PM
I think Ste keeps a sexy photo of his hand in his wallet.  :ROFL:

I must admit that my curiosity got the better of me and I checked out the hot young things that BillyB keeps in his "saved" section.  I see Ekaterin is from Simferopol.  Certainly not one of my English students!  But they definitely grow them well in Crimea.  Must be something in the water.  I like that not so many AM go searching in Simferopol.  It keeps them home for us locals to enjoy.  As young as these girls look, though, I may have to keep checking these sites out just in case I see any of my daughter's friends.  :hairraising:
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 15, 2007, 06:01:45 PM
StPatrick89, welcome to RWD. As for the credibility of HotRussianBrides, you may be interested in the rather instructive exchange of posts we had a year ago with its owner Patrick H (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1598.msg33554#msg33554), after he discovered that one of his "ladies" was featured on the 'Double Dealer' page on my website.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: 2tallbill on August 15, 2007, 06:15:21 PM
On thier website under Translation page - they completely copied and pasted the text from some other agency/website, I remember reading the same thing before for sure. Maybe it IS one and the same owner of two websites, I don't remember exactly the first one.

Anastassia, they also have a site Russian Love Match. You were given their Russian link on a post at a different thread on a different site (RWG).

********Off topic************
You can find 18 year old girls at every agency (Elena's models has two 18 year olds in their new ladies this week section), but at even at the risk of starting another raging age debate......
It is my opinion that very very few woman in her teens or even early 20s is mature enough to get married.

Of course there are a examples where I am wrong. My step mother (who raised me) married my Dad when she was 21 years old. They are still married 38 years later. If you disagree with me on this, feel free to star a Bill is wrong thread and I will debate you on age there, I don't want to hijack this thread.
********Off topic*************


*******Back on Topic**********

HRB and RLM.
I have met a number of sincere ladies in person from this site. It is expensive and not for everyone. There are a number of "chat girls" who don't want to do anything but chat (which is very expensive) and some are there to polish their English skills, again they are mostly teenagers and in their early 20's. Another things is that you can set your preferences as invisible, which will keep the young chat girls away, they will not know you are online.

Check to see how much you must spend before you can meet one of these ladies. Oksana and Alena who work at the site are very helpful. Anytime a thread on HRB / RLM comes up it turns into a 20+ page event.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: BillyB on August 15, 2007, 08:10:52 PM
There are a number of "chat girls" who don't want to do anything but chat (which is very expensive) and some are there to polish their English skills, again they are mostly teenagers and in their early 20's.

They sure do like to chat at 1, 2, 3 AM in the morning on school nights. Many of these ladies who list their occupation as students have targeted men twice or three times their age for an English lesson. As noted by men on forums, after they agree to chat, they are kept waiting racking up a bill while the girl baits other men to chat too.

While the local small agencies may do the dirty deeds, HRB controls the money and he who controls the money controls how his program is to operate.

 
owner Patrick H

Actually the owner is named G. Pearson I believe. Patrick H writes differently and he replaced a guy named David, who used to be their main man to answer customer complaints and do damage control on forums. Out of respect for this forum, I won't put a link to the other where the owner showed up complaining he's losing money after investing millions and paying employees wages at $85,000 a month. He even considered getting out of the business but recently, at the time, started Russian love match and purchased more video cameras for the agencies to use.

One more thing Stpatrick89, Out of three years on multiple forums, I read of only one man at the forums who married an HRB girl. He met her before the terms and conditions got really tough and he thinks the whole agency thing is built on lies and his wife admited she and her girlfriends joined HRB for fun and laughs while many had boyfriends at the time.

HRB does have a testamonial page and under each letter there could be pics to see all the couples getting married. The women there look nothing like the premier girls on the front page.
http://www.hotrussianbrides.com/pub/stories.asp
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: 2tallbill on August 16, 2007, 12:39:09 AM
Billy, young girls also go to clubs until the light comes out. Young girls also have Russian boyfriends,
young girls are not suited as marriage material. These same young girls go to college like I did. When I was
playing college basketball, I was in a different state twice a week. It was difficult to take hard academic classes
while I did this, but I managed to do it. I took college algebra, finite mathematics, analytic geometry, and many other classes like history, writing, macro and micro economics, and several others. I also managed to chase cheerleaders, tap a number of kegs and to pursue many other gals at the time (and several chased me). I still managed, but I recommend that men do not chase college age women. I was not ready to be married at that time and neither are these girls. STAY away from girls this young was my message.

If you meet a woman who is 30 years old on the site you will not experience all of the same problems. I met a very nice, beautiful, tall woman who had a masters degree, who was very fluent in English, Russian and Ukrainian. She really liked me and I liked her. She was too prejudice against minorities for me to continue with her. It would never work between us and I know it, and she would be miserable in the US (especially the bay area) because 99% of us believe that all men are created equal. Of course there are racists in the FSU but I am not going to marry one. This is not something exclusive of this site.

But if you think that there are not serious ladies at the site then you are wrong. I would not tell you this unless I met them and believed it.

If you want to PM me I could tell you of other stories about sincere women that I was not compatible with for other reasons.

You can say many things about RLM / HRB they are too expensive, I agree. They are too controlling initially and I agree. They have many nice ladies that are over thirty years old.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: BillyB on August 16, 2007, 08:42:37 AM
But if you think that there are not serious ladies at the site then you are wrong. I would not tell you this unless I met them and believed it.


Nobody ever accused them of not having sincere girls on their site. There are good girls there but it is irresponsible to recommend the wrong agency to find the right girl. They put up too many barriers and make it difficult for people to communicate. Price is one barrier but even so, that is the fault of the man who chose to do business with HRB. Before buying anything, one needs to understand what he's getting and not getting.

You met a woman who is too racist for you. That could've been determined in a letter and it could've saved you time from even visiting this one woman. But with many suspect agencies, you don't even know if the woman you're writing to is actually doing the reading and responding to your letters. It could be Ivan, the employee of the month, writing love letters to you. Then when you feel a connection with a woman(actually Ivan) and want to visit her, you and her are actually complete strangers going on a blind date. It's not a wonder why guy's who use HRB has low success rates.

Many men come to these forums for advice and the last thing I want to do is recommend or even give a hint of decent girls in an agency where head games are played. HRB and Aweb already has the lion's share of the business. The reason is, with photos of half naked women, they make men think with their little head.

My simple suggestion is to anybody serious in finding a wife is to use a reputable dating site or marriage agency, understand there are scammers everywhere, write to a lot of women and use letters and phone calls to understand who the women are and eliminate any that is not compatable with you. Then make a decision to visit, preferably many. It's hard enough to find the right woman, the last thing a guy need is an agency he's hiring to make things worse.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Jack on August 16, 2007, 08:54:41 AM

Two Tall, at the risk of sounding repetious, .....good girls sign up with bad agencies, happens everyday.

Just because a good girl signs up with a bad agency certaintly does not mean that lady is, or is going to become, bad.

BUT when the head of the organiazation is bad, when this good girl is sound asleep at home but somehow at the same time many, many e-mails were sent to men under her name and these e-mails indicated an interest in this man, and by the way, the good girl at home sleeping had no interest in these men, then there is a problem. A bad problem.   One never knows if he is going to ever be able to get in contact with this good girl. You did, great!  I wonder how many other newby's will be able to contact those good girls who signed-up for a bad agency?

Best thing to do is to contact this lady through a good agency if she is listed with another. If the good woman you have interest in is only listed with this one agency, then you are screwed, move and and better luck next time.

Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: ConnerVT on August 16, 2007, 09:17:16 AM
Great answer, Jack. 
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Bruno on August 16, 2007, 10:51:45 AM
Bruno, the man is asking for help and asked a simple question,........"is this a scam?".

Is it possible Bruno you can give this new member your opinion in a simple two or three letter word? 

NO ... it is not a scam... why ? See my previous post... when he have sign-up with the site, he have agree with the rules... and the rules say "no contact information" can be given by HRB...
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: StPatrick89 on September 03, 2007, 07:50:50 PM
Reading "War and Peace" was easier than reading this thread. Ask a stupid question. Well I have been on the site HotRussianBrides for a while now. Ok I hear many of you graoning and saying "Not another sucker". Yes that would be me, but I do have a plan. I will be travelling to Odessa and hopefully meeting several of these ladies and putting an end to this debate. Or I won't meet any of them and I'll report as such on here. Several ladies that I have been chatting with seem to be willing to give me their phone numbers. Once there I plan to call them and ask if they would like to meet me. If they really are looking for an American man for a husband I would think they would jump at the chance to meet me. We will see if this is the case. It has become my mission to either prove that the site is legitimate or that it is not. Hey it is my time and money to waste and Odessa sounds like a fun place to visit anyway.  :cluebat: You may now start to make fun of me.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: 2tallbill on September 03, 2007, 08:44:32 PM
Two Tall, at the risk of sounding repetious, .....good girls sign up with bad agencies, happens everyday.

Just because a good girl signs up with a bad agency certaintly does not mean that lady is, or is going to become, bad.

BUT when the head of the organiazation is bad, when this good girl is sound asleep at home but somehow at the same time many, many e-mails were sent to men under her name and these e-mails indicated an interest in this man, and by the way, the good girl at home sleeping had no interest in these men, then there is a problem. A bad problem.   One never knows if he is going to ever be able to get in contact with this good girl. You did, great!  I wonder how many other newby's will be able to contact those good girls who signed-up for a bad agency?

Best thing to do is to contact this lady through a good agency if she is listed with another. If the good woman you have interest in is only listed with this one agency, then you are screwed, move and and better luck next time.



I think the letter writing thing is an Aweb scam not a RLM / HRB thing. RLM is accused of having fluent 18, 19, 20 year old English majors 24 hours a day online to chat with dirty old men.
I think if you stay away from gals under 28 then you wont run into any problem like that. I dont think such young women are ready to be be wives any way. I think the arguement against
RLM / HRB is that its too big to manage and that they can't keep an eye on everyone. The other arguement against them is that they charge to much in the beginning before you are able to
get contact information for a gal. These are both valid arguements. I don't know of anyone accusing them of phoney letter writing campaigns. They dont even charge me to recieve them. I could recieve a thousand letters (I dont thank God)  and it would not cost me a dime. 

Why am I screwed? I simply ask for a ladies contact information through the agency, fill out a notorized form (I have this on my computer already), I pay to have it translated into her native language and then I call and contact her directly which is exactly what I am doing.

Commandments 3 & 4

3. Work to eliminate any agency from your communications.

4. Always get the lady's home address and home phone number as early as possible.

I use Elenas models and the free sites as well, and I would recommend them to newbies.


Take care,

Bill
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: 2tallbill on September 03, 2007, 08:50:18 PM
Reading "War and Peace" was easier than reading this thread. Ask a stupid question. Well I have been on the site HotRussianBrides for a while now. Ok I hear many of you graoning and saying "Not another sucker". Yes that would be me, but I do have a plan. I will be travelling to Odessa and hopefully meeting several of these ladies and putting an end to this debate. Or I won't meet any of them and I'll report as such on here. Several ladies that I have been chatting with seem to be willing to give me their phone numbers. Once there I plan to call them and ask if they would like to meet me. If they really are looking for an American man for a husband I would think they would jump at the chance to meet me. We will see if this is the case. It has become my mission to either prove that the site is legitimate or that it is not. Hey it is my time and money to waste and Odessa sounds like a fun place to visit anyway.  :cluebat: You may now start to make fun of me.

St Pat, there is no reason for people to hit you with a clue bat.

I would make a couple of suggestions, which is up to you to take or not to take.

First Arrange your own apartment (not a hotel), travel and translators, meals etc. If you need someone in Odessa

I know someone that I would recommend.

Second have a back up plan.

Third have a good time.

Take care,

Bill

Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: BillyB on September 03, 2007, 08:56:37 PM
It has become my mission to either prove that the site is legitimate or that it is not.

Your one experience will not prove anything once and for all. Also what you say will not hold much weight since you have very few posts.

Only one man that I know on the forums have has ever married a woman from HRB. HRB has a poor track record of success ratio per men using the services. His wife admitted having friends who joined the agency for fun even though they had local boyfriends.

Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: 2tallbill on September 03, 2007, 09:27:12 PM
Billy, many a gal from the FSU has joined an agency on a lark or because a friend
did or a multitude of other reasons.

You are correct that someone being successful there is not a guarantee that the
agency or its affiliate are a good agency.

I don't think that many of the people on this forum would join HRB / RLM based on the high
upfront cost. There are several other options which do not require such an expense.

I lucked out in some respects, I saw all these candy shop Russian womens sites but didn't join
any of them. I then found the RWG forum back in the olden days when it advertised different agencies.
I started reading and learning about the process. I joined RLM because it was advertised on the site
and I thought that meant it was a good agency to join. I also joined Elena's models and a pretty woman
for the same reasons. I dropped A Pretty woman after my one year was up. I have renewed Elena's
every six months.

By the way the lady that was too racist, I met her on line the same day as I had dinner with her because my plan
A which I met through Elena's models didn't work out. So I met her without the benefit of exchanging letters.


Take care,

Bill
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: troutrivers on September 22, 2007, 09:36:57 PM
Many of the ladies in HRB site are simply 'working'. Chatting with men and getting the men to write them emails is their job. But there are also some ladies in the site who are actually seeking a love match. How do I know? I was a member for some time, I actually did 3 trips in the agemcy. The first was to Odessa, that lady is still active in the agency, even though she is beautiful and it has been more than two years now since our meeting. Actually, it was never much of a meeting, she simply wanted to go to a restaurant, then go shopping, then go home. The second trip was to Pskov. That lady insisted that I take her on an excursion trip, which I had to pay in cash. Every time I tried to use a credit card in Pskov the machine was 'broken' so my cash reserve was quickly depleted, so I told her that we could not do the trip. No trip, no relationship she told me - so it was goodbye. The 3rd trip was to meet a doctor in Moscow. That lady was fluent in English and we spent a lot of time together. She decided that she did not want to continue our relations - but - she was very serious about me, so maybe I was scammed the by the other ladies but that one was real. To get to the end of my story with HRB, I met one lady in chat who told me that it was her job - but she liked me - she wanted to meet me. But she needed to chat with as many other men as possible to continue to get her $300 per month from the agency. I dumped her - as I had found a nice lady in Odessa who slipped me her email address. She and I have been, I believe, blacklisted by HRB, as both of our profile were quickly deleted after I posted on another board. So be warned - the 18, 19 and 20 yo cheesecakes who want to chat with you are real - and they are being paid to bleed you. You can actually travel to meet one too - but she will only be interested in you as a sugar daddy and you will get none of the normal perks of such a relationship. But there are also ladies in the site who really seek a match - so if you are willing to pay the high fees and probably waste time and resources with probably several scammers, good luck to you.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: BillyB on September 22, 2007, 10:04:26 PM

I met one lady in chat who told me that it was her job - but she liked me - she wanted to meet me. But she needed to chat with as many other men as possible to continue to get her $300 per month from the agency.


You're not the only guy this happened to. troutrivers, you probably got scammed more times than not doing business with HRB. Some guys know about that site but don't care as long as they have the opportunity to get one of the hot women. They try to beat the system but end up getting beat.

Shopping, trips, airfare, agency fees, and restaurants to meet pro daters. How much did this cost you troutrivers so others may understand if they have enough money to pay to play at HRB?
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: mervin on September 24, 2007, 01:34:32 AM
There are a lot of us on these forums who have had experiences with RLM StPatrick. Go to just about any forum like this one and you'll see 10 page threads dedicated to RLM. Most of what you read is negative, and most of the people who say negative things about them are the people who used them and got burned. I've yet to see anyone (ever) post conclusive proof that RLM is a scam agency. I think it's perfectly fair for people to ask questions about the legitimacy of women chatting online at 2am, but that doesn't mean it's correct to say these women are getting paid to do it.

I used RLM for about 5-6 months and in the end I decided I wasn't going to use their services to travel to Ukraine. It was a personal decision based on many factors. The main reason I decided not to do it was because of control. You do understand that if you decide to use RLM they're not going to give you a ladies contact information, even after you buy the 2500 credits? They're going to give you the contact information of the agency. Whether or not the agency contacts you, or cooperates with you is another story. For several months I exchanged pm's with several people who had traveled to Ukraine and Russia via RLM to meet women. My friend Justin had a good experience with them, though the women he met wasn't serious.  My friend Todd used them travel to Ukraine and Russia and he had a mixed experience with them. The Ukraine agencies he used were good, but the one that he used in Russia was bad. Some of the men I talked to complained that the agencies that RLM put them in touch with never responded, and other men complained that after they paid the agency their fee the women they were corresponding with no longer wanted to meet with them. Who knows all the reasons for these things. Maybe there are reasonable explanations, but I'm just telling you these things to share my knowledge. What little knowledge it may be! :)

RLM does a better marketing job then just about any other agency in the business StPatrick. Don't believe everything you see. I met no less than 10 RLM girls when I was in Ukraine this past May. Yeah, many of them were attractive, but at least half of them didn't resemble their profiles as much as I would have thought. In Vinnitsa I met 2 girls who were absolutely stunning on the website, but were only average looking in person.  One of the RLM girls I met in Lugansk was a lot taller in person than what she was listed as on the website and she wasn't nearly as attractive in person either. Another one of the RLM girls I met in Lugansk had children, and in her profile on RLM it said she didn't have children. She was a very nice girl though. and she seemed honest. Who knows, maybe it was an honest mistake that her profile was mislabeled.   

I corresponded with a few of these ladies via RLM before I traveled there to meet them. Some of them I never corresponded with before I met them. I used the ladies' local agencies to meet these girls, and in doing so I bypassed RLM.

You can do that with some of RLM's agencies, because it some cities their local affiliates are some of the larger, easier to find agencies that have their own websites, but in other cities the local RLM affiliate is a small, hole in the wall type agency and it might be more difficult to find - though not impossible.

BillyB is right, in that there aren't too many RLM success stories posted on the internet, but I think the primary reasons for this are indeed related to what Too Tall said. The average guy who travels to Ukraine or Russian in search of a girl doesn't hang out at internet forums like this. I also think that the average guy who spends the kind of money that RLM charges doesn't give a damn about sharing their experience with the masses. I guess the reason I say this is because I have to believe there are some success stories. I just can't believe that all the men who travel to FSU countries using the services of RLM have unsuccessful ventures. 
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 24, 2007, 05:06:34 AM
Mervin, you're commendable in reserving judgment, but most of what you say/report about their practices is as good as an indictment, IMHO.
Some of the men I talked to complained that the agencies that RLM put them in touch with never responded, and other men complained that after they paid the agency their fee the women they were corresponding with no longer wanted to meet with them. Who knows all the reasons for these things.
I'll give you 3 guesses ;):

1 - $
2 - €
3 - £
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: BillyB on September 24, 2007, 09:43:00 AM

 I've yet to see anyone (ever) post conclusive proof that RLM is a scam agency. I think it's perfectly fair for people to ask questions about the legitimacy of women chatting online at 2am, but that doesn't mean it's correct to say these women are getting paid to do it.


Merv, people have asked these women and many women have admitted they get paid. They are witnesses. Like you, I have never seen a pay stub to these chat women from an agency but I don't discount the amount of witnesses that spoken out. Personally I have not seen any evidence on any agency to be a scam. So do we recommend HRB and AWeb on a regular basis? No, we tell newbies those agencies track record based on the number of people who come here and tell their experience. It's not rocket science to understand that there are corrupt agency owners that will pay ladies to chat all day long to make money. Most ladies elsewhere in other agencies would like to keep correspondence to a minimum and hope men would visit them instead to achieve the goal of getting married. They have busy lives studying and working and don't have time to chat with 50 guys everyday at 2 am in the morning... unless of course there's a paycheck in doing that. On the bright side, some of those college age girls don't have to take their clothes off at the strip bar to make money. They just need to give the men out there a virtual fantasy.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: mervin on September 25, 2007, 08:33:08 PM
You're right BillyB, we're never going see a pay stub. My only complaint about the stories I hear from men who say they know women who claim they're getting paid is that it's second hand information, and the sources from which these claims are derived are usually dubious. Why? Because the guys that come here and make these claims have been scorned and I honestly don't trust a lot of them. They're usually the guys who were talking to a woman half their age; never read the terms of service of RLM, only to blow a gasket and argue their way to getting banned after they realized there's a $1k qualification fee at the end of the rainbow; fooled themselves into believing they were rescuing a woman who desperately wanted to flee her homeland at the first site of a wealthy WM - and then failed to realize that the conventional rules of dating still applied (I.E they can't automatically run off and score with a 19 year old hottie named Sveta like they thought they could) the moment their plane landed in Kiev, Odessa, Moscow, or whatever city to which they were traveling. That's if they bothered to get on the plane to begin with! Most of them never even go, they just come here with their stories of second hand information about how profiles are fake or women are paid to chat. 

Look, I know it looks like I'm defending RLM. I'm not. Really, I agree with you BillyB and Sandro in that I would not recommend people use RLM as a reliable means of meeting a woman, and I believe that it's possible that some of these woman might be getting paid, but I also think that if these "paid to chat" claims were as widespread as some people claim then why can't any of the men who claim to have proof of wrongdoing produce one of these girls who was getting paid to chat? We've all seen RLM women show up on these forums for various reasons from time to time. And some of the members who make these "paid to chat" claims also claim to have formed friendships with these women, so then why can't they get them to post their first hand accounts on this website? Not all of these women are still agency girls, so what have they got to lose? As for why women are willing to chat with a faceless profile? I don't know. I guess if I could chat for free I'd start up a bunch of chat correspondences with as many people as I could until I found one who was interesting to talk to. It's a reasonable assumption in my opinion. I agree that many of the girls who chat might not be serious, but if that's a persons beef against them then they shouldn't be chatting.

The other thing I find really dubious about some of the stories is that the men who claim to have such a terrible experience dealing with the RLM, still (independently) attempt to use RLM agencies. What I don't understand is that if an agency is hiring girls who are paid to chat, or making fake profiles, and if after you've become a qualified member the agency still won't give you its contact information, why is it better to go to Russia or Ukraine on your own to find and use this agency? Does a bad agency suddenly become good because you've bypassed RLM and dealt directly with the agency in person? I agree that you CAN deal with a dishonest agency in person, but it's also the case that if you feel the agency is corrupt you shouldn't be trusting the correspondences you've been having with the women who have purported to have shown an interest in meeting you, so you're taking a huge and foolish risk.

I remember on the other forum there was a guy who went on a series of tirades about RLM, and he was offering to send anyone information about them in which he claimed to have proof positive of corruption and intentional wrongdoing. Yet all his claims of wrongdoing and corruption did not stop him from going to Ukraine to use the very agencies he was accusing! By the way, he was one of those guys who was meeting with 20 year old girls, so that tells me all I need to know about him.

All I'm saying is that it's perfectly acceptable to tell people to stay away from RLM because their TOS make it harder, and not easier for 2 people to form a successful relationship (I think there is ample proof of that), but most of the other claims against them aren't substantiated to the point where I'd pay them any mind. And most of the people who make claims against them are hypocrites who don't even follow their own advice, or fall into one of the other categories that I mentioned above. 

You make a good point about the 2am chat sessions BillyB, and I'll concede that it's a red flag. However, a lot of the girls who chat have web access at home and that's where they're doing the chatting, not at an agency or internet cafe.







 

Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 25, 2007, 09:35:47 PM
You make a good point about the 2am chat sessions BillyB, and I'll concede that it's a red flag. However, a lot of the girls who chat have web access at home and that's where they're doing the chatting, not at an agency or internet cafe.
Most of the FSUW I was in contact with these past few years do not have a PC and web access at home, this being too costly for them. Would the girls you mention be using their parents' PC ?

And what would be they chatting about in the wee hours of the night with older WM ? The weather, the latest movie they saw/book they read, trying to improve their English ? Or would they soon switch to more "affectionate" topics ?

Chatting may be the modern equivalent of having a pen pal, a distant friend with whom you establish a platonic relationship, but I seriously doubt that most of these late-night/early-morning conversationalists have that in mind. Or are these young girls bored to tears with their real life ?
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: BillyB on September 25, 2007, 10:15:57 PM
Sandro, what these hired women do is sit at the agency in the wee hours of the morning chatting with any men. Men, over 40 yo, have come to the forums and said girls 18 you would invite them to chat. The men take the bait and chat but the girl goes off and talk to other men and come back half a minute later to answer your question. The women drag the time on chatting with you slow costing you big bucks bucks.

Mervin,  it seems that you have questioned the character the men who complain about RLM. Then why is it that men don't come out of the woodwork to complain about other large agencies? Maybe those agencies are doing things right and ethical to satisfy their customers.

I could sign up spend big bucks and gather evidence about HRB/RLM tactics but why? Other men have spent the money to find this out so I don't have to. It it was one or a few guys, I would discount their complaint but there's too many guys out there with bad experiences and the complaints will not end, that is guaranteed. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, taste like a duck, it probably is a duck.

I agree with Sandro, based on your reports of their practices, it's as good as an indictment. You say you don't trust the other guys who have complained and reported HRB/RLM on the forums, should we believe what you say? I believe what you said about them because it is similar to other men's experiences.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: mervin on September 26, 2007, 02:13:17 AM
You're very astute Billy.  I am indeed questioning the character of some (not all, but some) men who come here and complain about RLM. And as for why other men don't come out of the woodwork to complain about other agencies? That's a very good (and fair) question. I think we both know the answer to the question though. 1) It's because RLM offers live chat, which (to my knowledge) no other agency does and so it's opening up a can of worms for complaints because it's expensive and you've got women who are talking to lots of men at the same time which irritates some men who don't want to waste their money on women who won't talk exclusively with them. 2) They are infinitely more expensive than any other agency on the block, and a lot of the guys who use them don't bother to read the TOS until after they've gotten hooked. I think the RLM formula is a recipe for complaints, confusion and unhappy customers. Even aweb can't hold a candle to the number of complaints that RLM is going to produce. But that does not mean that all the complaints are accurate or justified.

But you're definitely right that at some point even the biggest skeptic has to stand up and take notice about the sheer volume of complaints. And honestly Billy, I have taken notice, which is why I would never use them to meet a lady.  But like I was saying before, I just think that a lot of the guys who come here to complain about them don't pack the punch to back up their arguments. Most of them will just drop in to make a quick post and then we never hear from them again. One sided stories aren't usually the true stories in my opinion. I'm not a qualified member of RLM and I'm only speaking as someone who has tried (like you and Sandro) to gain insight about RLM. I've spoken to several qualified members and I've picked their brains for information related to what they experienced, so based on what most of these guys have told me, using the services of RLM does not guarantee a bad experience. Just an expensive experience! LOL  I'm just here to give my opinion. I'm not saying I'm right about everything.

Yep Sandro, I meant to say they're using their parents' computers! :)  I'm certainly no expert on the state of computes and internet access in the FSU, but most of the girls I talk to have internet access at home or at work.  More often the case that they have it at work though. I'm guessing many of these girls would have to be chatting at their place of residence because I don't think most of the agencies are open all night. I remember back when I was a member of RLM that some girl once told me that her agency was open 24 hours per day, which I found a bit odd. 

I really don't know what they'd be chatting about at the wee hours of the night. I guess if a girl felt she had nothing else to do at night, and nothing to wake up to in the morning maybe she'd want to be in front of her computer so she could chat with all the guys who are online. All I'm saying is that of the thousands of girls that RLM advertises it's plausible to believe that there are 20-30 who are willing to stay up to chat during the wee hours of the morning. I know that when I used to use friendfinder I could go online at just about any hour of the day or night and find someone from Russia to chat with.

I can tell you one thing though guys, maybe these girls wouldn't be bored to tears with their lives if they were chatting with interesting people like you, me, or Billy! :)

Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 26, 2007, 07:14:20 AM
I can tell you one thing though guys, maybe these girls wouldn't be bored to tears with their lives if they were chatting with interesting people like you, me, or Billy! :)
OK Mervin, how about the 3 of us setting up our OWN chat line, and making FSU girls pay to chat with us, for a change ;D 8)?
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Rvrwind on September 26, 2007, 07:47:28 AM
Quote
It's because RLM offers live chat, which (to my knowledge) no other agency does and so it's opening up a can of worms for complaints because it's expensive and you've got women who are talking to lots of men at the same time which irritates some men who don't want to waste their money on women who won't talk exclusively with them.
Not so, we have live chat as well & we can do video or not. We have our own private chatroom & we also have a webcam & microphone so you can chat with any body you wish. We are about to hook up Skype to make it even easier. Of course you have to scheduale a chat with our ladies, we don't pay them to sit around waiting for you to come by & drool on your monitor. ;)
My question is doesn't anybody ever read whats on the friggin' website or did I build it & maintain it purely for asthetic reasons?
Many guys ask me questions that are answered on the website if anybody took the time to actually read instead of just looking at the women & hitting the enter button!! No wonder so many guys get burned, they don't take the time or are incapable of reading.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Admin on September 26, 2007, 08:19:39 AM
Not so, we have live chat as well & we can do video or not. We have our own private chatroom & we also have a webcam & microphone so you can chat with any body you wish. We are about to hook up Skype to make it even easier. Of course you have to scheduale a chat with our ladies, we don't pay them to sit around waiting for you to come by & drool on your monitor. ;)
My question is doesn't anybody ever read whats on the friggin' website or did I build it & maintain it purely for asthetic reasons?
Many guys ask me questions that are answered on the website if anybody took the time to actually read instead of just looking at the women & hitting the enter button!! No wonder so many guys get burned, they don't take the time or are incapable of reading.

Richard,

Same thing happens here at RWD. How many times have you seen someone ask about a question that is answered in the FAQ - or the Wiki - or in a simple forum search.

Fact is - people come to a discussion forum to 'discuss', not so much to read. That is OK - just the nature of the beast. I suspect most people visit TA to ogle the wares - sort of like 'window shopping'. Some of the serious ones will read the material - but even then, they are likely to have questions.

Bottom line: Just cause we put the information out there, the visitors are under no obligation to read it - and many will not. Just the way it is.

- Dan
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: ScottinCrimea on September 26, 2007, 09:52:35 AM
And how many here have actually read the owner's manual for the computer they are sitting at right now?
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: troutrivers on September 26, 2007, 02:27:00 PM
You're not the only guy this happened to. troutrivers, you probably got scammed more times than not doing business with HRB. Some guys know about that site but don't care as long as they have the opportunity to get one of the hot women. They try to beat the system but end up getting beat.

Shopping, trips, airfare, agency fees, and restaurants to meet pro daters. How much did this cost you troutrivers so others may understand if they have enough money to pay to play at HRB?

Hi Billy - well, the Odessa trip was $3000 plus as I used HRB to arrange it - so you know that the apartment was marked up - but at the time I was too newbie to be willing to arrange things myself. The Pskov trip I did partly on the cheap as I pulled a frequent flyer award, and it was a short trip as well, only 4 days in Russia. The Moscow trip was probably around $3000 as well. But for both Pskov and Moscow I booked my rooms myself.

Pskov is a very interesting place, there is a historic kremlin (simply means fortress in Russian, so many places actually have one). Czar Nickolas II spent his first night as a commoner there after he abdicated as well. So I enjoyed the trip - but the purpose of the trip was not to be a tourist.

Same with the Moscow trip - I booked it myself. I was in the Hotel Ukrainia and during the times I was on my own it was a fascinating place with a very interesting mixture of Canadian oil patch guys, German, Polish, Lithuanian and Russian business types, as well as Japanese, and always 10 - 15 house prostitutes in the lobby bar after 10 pm. It was so cold, -25 C each day, most of the time was spent indoors.

I saw so little I went back in July, totally on my own that time. I had a real date with a girl I met in a chat room, I met some other ladies as I made my way around the city as well, using the metro by following a map. By the end of the week I was understanding the names of the stations as they were announced over the PA system.

I recently looked at the HRB site again, wow, they are really pushing the Playboy look. The number of girls that are posing in skimpy bikini, lingerie and semi nude (discretely, with strategic use of arms and hands - but a few pink spots are visible) has exploded since my days as a member. Maybe they will eventually morph into an escort agency. But at the moment - be warned - for most girls it will be pay to look, not play, if you use this agency.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Rvrwind on September 26, 2007, 11:33:48 PM
Quote
I recently looked at the HRB site again, wow, they are really pushing the Playboy look. The number of girls that are posing in skimpy bikini, lingerie and semi nude (discretely, with strategic use of arms and hands - but a few pink spots are visible) has exploded since my days as a member. Maybe they will eventually morph into an escort agency. But at the moment - be warned - for most girls it will be pay to look, not play, if you use this agency.
Yep, perfect wife material.... ::)
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: troutrivers on September 27, 2007, 08:44:56 PM
A very valid point Rvrwind! It makes me recall something I once read about the perfect woman - she is a whore in the bedroom, a saint in the nursery.

Maybe a post here from someone who was suckered - me - even I realized that 18, 19 and 20 yo girls had no real interest in me - will help someone perusing this site to be warned away from hotrussianbrides as well as russianlovematch. To be precise, the ladies I met were 24, 30 and 28 at the times of our meetings. I was 40 something +.

But - sex sells baby! And the girls in HRB (RLM) are well coached as to how to flaunt it!
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Rvrwind on September 27, 2007, 09:05:26 PM
Quote
But - sex sells baby! And the girls in HRB (RLM) are well coached as to how to flaunt it!
Yes & therein lays the problem with this entire industry & why it has the reputation it does. Even the dirt gets smeared on me & my agency although we are a far cry from those who are dishonest & one step short of prostitution.
It is an industry that is screaming out for needed regulation with none forthcoming. A shame it is for the good companies & the good ladies & the good men involved, for they are truly the ones that pay for the misdeeds of companies like HRB & their ilk. :(
Sad but true....
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: troutrivers on October 24, 2007, 10:00:08 PM
Yes & therein lays the problem with this entire industry & why it has the reputation it does. Even the dirt gets smeared on me & my agency although we are a far cry from those who are dishonest & one step short of prostitution.
It is an industry that is screaming out for needed regulation with none forthcoming. A shame it is for the good companies & the good ladies & the good men involved, for they are truly the ones that pay for the misdeeds of companies like HRB & their ilk. :(
Sad but true....

See Girl ID Number 157115 in HRB - I met this lady both time I was in Moscow. She is real, she really is seeking a match, she is intelligent and an interesting date. She rejected me becuase of our age difference. Fair enough - but I never saw seminude photos of her before meeting her - I was really interested in her as a real person, not a sex object.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: ScottinCrimea on October 25, 2007, 11:02:02 AM
See Girl ID Number 157115 in HRB - I met this lady both time I was in Moscow. She is real, she really is seeking a match, she is intelligent and an interesting date. She rejected me becuase of our age difference. Fair enough - but I never saw seminude photos of her before meeting her - I was really interested in her as a real person, not a sex object.

Apparently you didn't look closely at her profile because there is a semi-nude photo of her there.  Are you saying that you only saw this photo after you met her or that she showed you some others?

Since there is so little in her profile that describes how she is as a real person, what was there specifically about her that caught your interest other than the photos?
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: troutrivers on October 25, 2007, 11:22:03 AM
to clarify:

this photo was posted recently

I met her last year, long before the photo was posted
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: BillyB on October 25, 2007, 09:51:12 PM
See Girl ID Number 157115 in HRB - I met this lady both time I was in Moscow. She is real, she really is seeking a match, she is intelligent and an interesting date. She rejected me becuase of our age difference. Fair enough - but I never saw seminude photos of her before meeting her - I was really interested in her as a real person, not a sex object.

Maybe it wasn't your age but you did not shell out the money. It says she's fond of shopping and fancies travelling all over the World. When's the last time you saw photos of her? After looking at these photos, it's easy for men to have nasty thoughts which in turn will make them do business with HRB.

http://www.hotrussianbrides.com/profile/profile.aspx?toid=157115
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: troutrivers on October 27, 2007, 09:32:19 AM
Hi Billy,

Interesting observations, but she never even remotely hinted at wanting such things from me. I met her in Feb of 06 and then again in July of 06. For the July meeting she was surprised to learn that I was in Moscow, and was happy to meet but as she clearly specified as a friend.

Based upon the last email from her in response to my asking why she had posted such photo I suppose the friendship may be over, but friends look out for friends, yes? Especially when it is clear that they have done something stupid.

I am interested if Rvrwind has a comment. How could regulation help control something like this? HRB loads up their site with young, beautiful and very professional chatters and letter writers - but - there are ladies in their system who are really seeking a match as well. So if they were ever accused of violating a regulation they could easily ponie up a 'real' example.

To explain my time as an HRB client more, when I was in Moscow in Feb 06 I was there primarily to meet a doctor. She had posted two see through photos to her profile shortly before my trip. Needless to say those photos were a subject of conversation, and I did have the privlidge to see a lot more during our time together. The local HRB agent suggested strongly that I meet at least one other lady before I left Moscow.

Also - the other lady is now also posted in Elena's Models - but not with the semi nude photo.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: Rvrwind on October 27, 2007, 10:31:19 AM
Quote
I am interested if Rvrwind has a comment. How could regulation help control something like this? HRB loads up their site with young, beautiful and very professional chatters and letter writers - but - there are ladies in their system who are really seeking a match as well. So if they were ever accused of violating a regulation they could easily ponie up a 'real' example.
Regulation can't control what pictures a lady wants to post, nor do I think it should. For me a picture says a thousand words & women who will post such are in my opinion not women a guy would do well in marrying.
My idea of regulation is more to the fact that I would like to see the corresspondence regulated in that it must come from the lady, not a company shill. That spamming be totally stopped. That when making a conference call you are actually talking to the woman & not some actress & that companies that deal in such be closed, permenatly without recourse.
That is more of the type of regulation I am interested in seeing.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: ScottinCrimea on October 27, 2007, 10:40:32 AM
troutrivers,
     How is it that you seem to end up with women who go on to post semi-nude photos?  You stated before that your interest in these women is as a "real person" and not a sex object, and yet you seem to find the women who consider themselves sex objects.  I'm just curious about what you see in their profiles/photos that attracts you.
Title: Re: HotRussianBrides.com
Post by: troutrivers on October 28, 2007, 03:54:38 PM
Hi Scott,

Sorry, please accept my apology if my posts are not clear to you and certainly thank you for posting your question.

To answer your question, in both instances the semi nude photos were posted AFTER plans had been made to meet in one instance (the MD) and long, long after both plans as well as actual meetings in the second instance. These photos were not part of the either ladies' respective profiles when first contact was made - when plans were being made to meet. In the instance of the MD the photos were posted before we met. If you are wondering exactly when such posting occured in the time line of my communications with her, it was about two weeks before I was to leave for Moscow as I recall. All plans for our meeting had been finalized. I had airline travel and hotel room booked and visa in hand. I decided not to mention the photos in an email or phone call to her as the actual meeting with her was only a few days away at the time.

Alles ist klar? as my German friends would say?

Thank you Rvwind, your comment is appreciated as well.