Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Married => Topic started by: Admin on November 23, 2008, 01:18:28 PM

Title: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 23, 2008, 01:18:28 PM
Approximately 40 percent of people taking the survey are divorced from their cross-cultural spouse. To gain insight into those aspects, including several unique to cross-cultural marriages, that contribute to divorce, we asked them to rate each of the same 12 factors on a scale from 1 to 5, with these instructions:

Quote
Score of 1 means it was NO
factor in your divorce. Score
of 5 means it was a
MAJOR factor in your
divorce.

For this poll, we will see if our group selects the same Top 3 factors contributing to divorce, as our survey shows.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: GoodOlBoy on November 23, 2008, 02:46:26 PM
Hi Dan,

     I don't mean to be dense, but can anyone with an opinion participate in this poll or is it for DIVORCED people only?

     
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 23, 2008, 03:27:09 PM
Hi Dan,

     I don't mean to be dense, but can anyone with an opinion participate in this poll or is it for DIVORCED people only?

     

Anyone can participate in this informal poll.

The survey results I will post upon completion will present the reported results from those survey respondents who were divorced.

Essentially, it is an exercise to see how well our informal poll (perceptions) lines up with the real results (factual data) from the survey.

Make more sense now?

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: GoodOlBoy on November 23, 2008, 04:00:56 PM
Gotcha
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: AnastassiaAsh on November 23, 2008, 04:01:14 PM
I chose cultural, commitment, communication. Everything else is just typical of any divorce in any relationship. Those that i chose, I think, are routed in the difference in culture, mentality, perception...thus no understanding of commitment or communication on her part in the way American men do.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: 2tallbill on November 23, 2008, 04:09:02 PM
I chose cultural, commitment, communication. Everything else is just typical of any divorce in any relationship. Those that i chose, I think, are routed in the difference in culture, mentality, perception...thus no understanding of commitment or communication on her part in the way American men do.

I picked very close to you with language, cultural and communication. I guess
language and communication should be considered the same however.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: AnastassiaAsh on November 23, 2008, 04:38:40 PM
Bill, good point, but I think language and communication are two different things in the context of any relationship. One may know the language but may have difficulty of communicating with her/his spouse.

Communication, in this context, is more of a psychological/skills aspect. For example, good communication - letting your spouse know right away that you didn't like what he or she did or say (instead of not mentioning anything for a week or a month and it all becoming a snow ball resulting in her/his frustration, sadness, depression...) or, letting your spouse know how much you appreciate them, showing affection, talking looking into each others' eyes....or...saying yes when you mean yes, saying no when you mean no....

Women, especially RW, lack these skills a lot! How many times did we hear about silent treatments or wanting him to read her mind!  :wallbash:

If she doesn't know the language, the problem escalates ten fold!
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: GoodOlBoy on November 23, 2008, 05:32:12 PM
Dan,

     I don't want to come off as an assh*le, but I think you missed an important factor.

     As I have stated before in other posts, I live in an area (Sunny Isles Beach, N.Miami Beach) that is referred to by locals as "Little Russia". Anyway I speak to a variety (all ages) of RW/UW every day. Several ladies that my wife and I know are divorced from AM.

     One common complaint that I hear from these ladies is the location, here in the USA, that their husband's brought them too. From what they say about their experiences with small towns (they call them "VILLAGES"  ) here in the USA, they were VERY unhappy.

     I am not saying it (location) was the reason that they left their husband's, I am just saying it was a factor, more or less the final straw that broke the relationship.

     Some RW/UW have very strong feelings about "villages".

     Anyway, just my 2 cents.    Rick
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: ConnerVT on November 23, 2008, 06:17:16 PM
I chose cultural, commitment, communication. Everything else is just typical of any divorce in any relationship. Those that i chose, I think, are routed in the difference in culture, mentality, perception...thus no understanding of commitment or communication on her part in the way American men do.
Then you must be assuming that cross-cultural relationships end for different reasons than same-culture ones do.

Why do you make that assumption?  A reason that is common to both could easily be a significant factor.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: AnastassiaAsh on November 23, 2008, 06:24:10 PM
Well, yes and no. And then my line of thought was to say that cross-cultural marriages end because of this and this more often than common marriages because of this and this....but then I caught myself thinking, that I don't really know, it just seems to me. In general cultural differences affect all of the aspects, thus making it even more prone to end than a relationship with the same language and culture.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 23, 2008, 06:35:13 PM
Dan,

     I don't want to come off as an assh*le, but I think you missed an important factor.

     As I have stated before in other posts, I live in an area (Sunny Isles Beach, N.Miami Beach) that is referred to by locals as "Little Russia". Anyway I speak to a variety (all ages) of RW/UW every day. Several ladies that my wife and I know are divorced from AM.

     One common complaint that I hear from these ladies is the location, here in the USA, that their husband's brought them too. From what they say about their experiences with small towns (they call them "VILLAGES"  ) here in the USA, they were VERY unhappy.

     I am not saying it (location) was the reason that they left their husband's, I am just saying it was a factor, more or less the final straw that broke the relationship.

     Some RW/UW have very strong feelings about "villages".

     Anyway, just my 2 cents.    Rick

Rick,

No worries.

It is entirely possible - even likely - heck, it is a certainty - that we missed some important factors in the survey.

That is the reason we asked if the survey respondents would be willing to participate in future surveys. We recognized going in that we could not possibly ask all the questions - and permutations of questions and responses - to be able to answer all the possible questions - so we settled on those that seemed to fit the vast majority of circumstances, often drawing from similar studies conducted domestically and then tweaking to incorporate any cross-cultural differences.

I too know of one situation where a guy lives in the mountains outside Boulder, and were his home located in a more urban setting, his marriage with his Ukrainian wife would probably have worked out. As it is, they are living apart and will probably soon make that formal.

If they were asked what drove the divorce, my *guess* is they would have selected "Cultural Differences" as being the key contributor.

Anyway - while certainly possible I missed a key factor, the other thing that has been characteristic of the survey respondents is they have not been at all shy about letting me know how things could be, or should be, improved. I can't recall any comments about that particular issue however.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 23, 2008, 06:40:53 PM
Well, yes and no. And then my line of thought was to say that cross-cultural marriages end because of this and this more often than common marriages because of this and this....but then I caught myself thinking, that I don't really know, it just seems to me. In general cultural differences affect all of the aspects, thus making it even more prone to end than a relationship with the same language and culture.

For purposes of this survey question, we drew from a similar survey that was conducted domestically - and then we added two factors specific to cross-cultural marriages. Those two factors unique to cross-cultural marriage were: Language and Cultural Differences. We tried to be careful to distinguish between Language and Communications, with Communication being more about willingness to communicate and Language about the raw ability to effectively communicate.

Anyway - that is what we did - right or wrong.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: viking on November 23, 2008, 09:00:29 PM
Cross cultural differences, in this case an RW and an AM, can be large or small depending on the emotional involvement each brings to the table and their commitment to make their relationship work. But there are many types of cross cultural marriages that have weathered the storm. Black/White, or Christain/Jew are some examples. It need not be just countries.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: ConnerVT on November 24, 2008, 03:23:06 AM
     As I have stated before in other posts, I live in an area (Sunny Isles Beach, N.Miami Beach) that is referred to by locals as "Little Russia". Anyway I speak to a variety (all ages) of RW/UW every day. Several ladies that my wife and I know are divorced from AM.

     One common complaint that I hear from these ladies is the location, here in the USA, that their husband's brought them too. From what they say about their experiences with small towns (they call them "VILLAGES"  ) here in the USA, they were VERY unhappy.

     I am not saying it (location) was the reason that they left their husband's, I am just saying it was a factor, more or less the final straw that broke the relationship.

Your data is tainted, thereby suspect.

Wouldn't it make sense that people who relocated to a metro area like Miami would likely prefer a metro area over a small town?

It would be as stating, "over 90% of the people we interviewed in a local chocolate store actually LIKE chocolate!"   ;)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: GoodOlBoy on November 24, 2008, 04:09:23 AM
Dan,

    My wife reminded me last night of a lady we met on the beach last summer who left her husband because he turned out to be some kind of "RELIGIOUS ZEALOT".

    Because of his religious beliefs and behavior, he made life uncomfortable and downright impossible for her. So, she moved to Miami. She has family (Sister) and friends here, but she was thinking of returning to Russia (after citizenship).

    So, what do you think about religion or religious beliefs as a factor?

    Rick
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 24, 2008, 06:51:55 AM
Dan,

    My wife reminded me last night of a lady we met on the beach last summer who left her husband because he turned out to be some kind of "RELIGIOUS ZEALOT".

    Because of his religious beliefs and behavior, he made life uncomfortable and downright impossible for her. So, she moved to Miami. She has family (Sister) and friends here, but she was thinking of returning to Russia (after citizenship).

    So, what do you think about religion or religious beliefs as a factor?

    Rick

I suspect religion plays a role in some divorces, and it is true that we did not include that among the list of possible factors. Still, I think our survey results are quite meaningful, for the following reasons:

* There are an innumerable list of factors that might have a role in a decision to divorce. While our survey did not attempt to provide an exhaustive list, it appears to have provided a sufficient list for respondents.
* A respondent was presented with 12 factors (shown above in our poll), and asked to rate each one in terms of their significance to their decision to divorce.
* If a respondent were to conclude that NONE of the 12 represented the factors that led to their individual divorce, they could (and one did) respond with a rating of '1' for each of the 12 factors.
* Most respondents seemed to find the list of factors to be sufficiently robust that they were able to provide a rating of 4 or 5 against at least one of the factors.

I guess the way to look at it is that we only presented 12 possible factors from a potential list of hundreds of possible factors that might influence a decision to divorce. Did we miss a key factor that should have been in the 12 we presented? Maybe. Do the survey results provide insight into those factors that led to divorce? Absolutely. At a bare minimum, they allow us to see the relative contributions of 12 factors most often associated with divorce decisions, to determine if they are similar or dissimilar to domestic unions. Unless one concludes there are key factors absent from the list that might have overwhelmed the responses, then it is likely the survey results also captured more than just a relative measure of the 12 factors presented - it may have, and probably did, capture those factors in absolute terms that are the most significant factors leading to divorce.

Make sense?

- Dan

Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: GoodOlBoy on November 24, 2008, 07:05:08 AM
Dan,

     I completely follow your line of thinking. If you don't mind, can I ask why you didn't include a factor category of " None of the Above". This would obviously cover all other contingencies.

     IMHO, I think it would also build in a "false-positive" for your model.

  Rick
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 24, 2008, 07:13:57 AM
Dan,

     I completely follow your line of thinking. If you don't mind, can I ask why you didn't include a factor category of " None of the Above". This would obviously cover all other contingencies.  Rick

In most questions, we included the option of "Other" and allowed space for the respondent to complete a text field.

In THIS case, since we asked respondents to rate each of the items, the logic did not allow specification of an "Other" field. To some extent, I guess this was also due to limitations of the survey tool we used (Lime Survey at www.limesurvey.org), although I should point out that the Lime Survey script proved incredibly diverse and robust in this initial use of their product.

Oh BTW - in the case where someone wanted to respond with 'None of the Above' - their option was to simply rate each of the 12 presented factors with a score of '1'. This essentially means that none of those 12 had any significance in their decision to divorce - and I found at least one respondent that did just that.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 24, 2008, 07:23:09 AM
Dan,

     I completely follow your line of thinking. If you don't mind, can I ask why you didn't include a factor category of " None of the Above". This would obviously cover all other contingencies.

     IMHO, I think it would also build in a "false-positive" for your model.

  Rick

Oops - I missed your edit/add in my previous response.

Re: False-positive. Maybe. I *think* the only way it would be considered a false-positive is if we presented the results with the claim that we know exactly which factor/s is/are the most significant in cross-cultural divorce. If, OTOH, we present the results in terms of only the 12 measured factors and their relative contributions to divorce decisions, then it cannot be a false-positive (I don't think).

The difference is between announcing something like "Cultural differences are the leading cause of divorce in cross-cultural marriage" - versus - "Cultural differences were rated by respondents as the most significant of 12 factors measured in cross-cultural divorces." The difference may seem subtle, but are not.

And BTW - for those still completing the poll - my use of Cultural Differences as an example is only that - just as illustrative example for making a point.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Salmonberry on November 26, 2008, 08:10:48 PM
I think sex factor is one of the marriage breaking ones.  I am ready to be kicked out of what not but less see....  Some men (I am carefully fishing for words guys, ok?  SOME men get so fascinated by Russian/FSU culture that they miss many points. They get "stories" and "legends" from other folks about mystical russian women sexuality and hurry to Russia to try Russian flesh and... they get it! They go thru a lot of hassle of bringing the hot piece here .... and ooops!  they need viagra to keep on going! LOL  joking here.  But from my friend's experience I can conclude that many marriage just don't last because of different tempers and - let's also remember it - different ideas of what is acceptable in bedroom. Some men (again SOME men) grab a woman and try to cover her with a blanket (metaphorically yapping) so no other could enjoy looking at her - jealosy issue here. Others cyber f"""" all their life and cannot stop it even after bringing Natashas here. Guys, get real. Sex is MAIN reason for divorces.  Language - it is learnable of course if the lady wants to work on it  8)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ooooops on November 26, 2008, 08:35:00 PM
They go thru a lot of hassle of bringing the hot piece here .... and ooops!  they need viagra to keep on going!

If those guys wouldn't marry girls 20 years younger than themselves then they wouldn't run into problems like that.   ;D   Although I don't see anything wrong with Viagra as a tool when needed.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 26, 2008, 08:52:26 PM
If those guys wouldn't marry girls 20 years younger than themselves then they wouldn't run into problems like that.   ;D   Although I don't see anything wrong with Viagra as a tool when needed.

>>If those guys wouldn't marry girls 20 years younger than themselves<<

This is one of those types of perceptions the survey is intended to address. If you take a look at the answers to the second question (found here -- www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8602.0), you will find that most guys are NOT marrying girls 20 years younger then themselves. In fact, it is not even 10 years younger than themselves.

Surprised?

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 26, 2008, 08:56:30 PM
I think sex factor is one of the marriage breaking ones.  I am ready to be kicked out of what not but less see....  Some men (I am carefully fishing for words guys, ok?  SOME men get so fascinated by Russian/FSU culture that they miss many points. They get "stories" and "legends" from other folks about mystical russian women sexuality and hurry to Russia to try Russian flesh and... they get it! They go thru a lot of hassle of bringing the hot piece here .... and ooops!  they need viagra to keep on going! LOL  joking here.  But from my friend's experience I can conclude that many marriage just don't last because of different tempers and - let's also remember it - different ideas of what is acceptable in bedroom. Some men (again SOME men) grab a woman and try to cover her with a blanket (metaphorically yapping) so no other could enjoy looking at her - jealosy issue here. Others cyber f"""" all their life and cannot stop it even after bringing Natashas here. Guys, get real. Sex is MAIN reason for divorces.  Language - it is learnable of course if the lady wants to work on it  8)

>>Guys, get real. Sex is MAIN reason for divorces.<<

That is an interesting opinion. The claim that "sex is the MAIN reason" leaves a few questions unanswered.

Are you saying it is because the WM are not getting enough sex from their wives? Or maybe that the quality of the sex is sub-standard?

What, specifically, is it about "sex" that you believe creates such strife in the marriage that it leads to divorce?

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ooooops on November 26, 2008, 09:05:46 PM
Surprised?

Two largest categories in that poll are:

Men are older than women (on average) by 6 to 10 years. (40%)
and
Men are older than women (on average) by 11 to 15 years. (48%)

In my book 15 years is quite a lot....   
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 26, 2008, 09:39:55 PM
Two largest categories in that poll are:

Men are older than women (on average) by 6 to 10 years. (40%)
and
Men are older than women (on average) by 11 to 15 years. (48%)

In my book 15 years is quite a lot....   

Ooooops,

You are looking only at the poll. The poll was established to record perceptions. The survey results, which are based on more than 2000 respondents, are found later in that same topic at this posted message -- www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8602.msg158772#msg158772.

Is that any clearer?

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ooooops on November 26, 2008, 09:46:13 PM

Is that any clearer?


Ooooops...  sorry...   :-[ :)   Ok, then it's not the age issue I guess (although most of our married friends don't have more than 1-2 years difference in age, not 8-10)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Salmonberry on November 27, 2008, 05:09:26 PM
>>Guys, get real. Sex is MAIN reason for divorces.<<

That is an interesting opinion. The claim that "sex is the MAIN reason" leaves a few questions unanswered.

Are you saying it is because the WM are not getting enough sex from their wives? Or maybe that the quality of the sex is sub-standard?

What, specifically, is it about "sex" that you believe creates such strife in the marriage that it leads to divorce?

- Dan
Hmm... WM = white males?  I am sort of new to this abbreviation. Anyways, what I meant.
It is very awkward to discuss these subjects but as far as I know, and - unfortunately - from several men and women's sad experiences (I know several international couples split and divorced) sex issues were the main marriage-breaking factor in their life together.  For some men who brought ladies to the US ceratin sexual routines were not acceptable although they could cyber all night long before :P   for some girls who agreed to marry mature men Viagra turned out to be an obstacle although even some normal men on this forum expressed total agreement with its usage.  Another thing is ... some men (SOME) believe they can try very close to illegal things in bedroom just because she is a foreign and her official status is pending.
Off topic here.  Would it be much safer for a lady - and for a man too - if they gave them more than 90 days period to explore each other???  Would THAT solve lots of problems?    After talking to one lady who was not sure what she was doing in the US:  I just thought I could bear him for a year or so...   sic!     
To return to sex subject.  Many men don't even marry gals from FSU, they just turn into sex tourists and that is f""""""" sad!
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Doll on November 27, 2008, 05:18:24 PM
Quote
WM = white males
Western Men  :D
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: ScottinCrimea on November 27, 2008, 05:58:02 PM
Salmomberry,  Every example you give would have been avoided by the two taking the time to get to know each other first.  In each case it is an example of unrealistic expectations by one or the other.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 27, 2008, 06:27:17 PM
Hmm... WM = white males?  I am sort of new to this abbreviation. Anyways, what I meant.
It is very awkward to discuss these subjects but as far as I know, and - unfortunately - from several men and women's sad experiences (I know several international couples split and divorced) sex issues were the main marriage-breaking factor in their life together.  For some men who brought ladies to the US ceratin sexual routines were not acceptable although they could cyber all night long before :P   for some girls who agreed to marry mature men Viagra turned out to be an obstacle although even some normal men on this forum expressed total agreement with its usage.  Another thing is ... some men (SOME) believe they can try very close to illegal things in bedroom just because she is a foreign and her official status is pending.
Off topic here.  Would it be much safer for a lady - and for a man too - if they gave them more than 90 days period to explore each other???  Would THAT solve lots of problems?    After talking to one lady who was not sure what she was doing in the US:  I just thought I could bear him for a year or so...   sic!     
To return to sex subject.  Many men don't even marry gals from FSU, they just turn into sex tourists and that is f""""""" sad!

>>Many men don't even marry gals from FSU, they just turn into sex tourists and that is f""""""" sad!<<

SB,

What, exactly, is your definition of a "sex tourist" ?

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: vwrw on November 27, 2008, 07:55:07 PM
I am surprised to see that lack of desire to communicate have gathered 11 votes.

I have always thought that lack of desire to communicate is triggered by some problems in relationship and thus, it is an effect, not cause.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Vaughn on November 27, 2008, 08:16:49 PM
I have always thought that lack of desire to communicate is triggered by some problems in relationship and thus, it is an effect, not cause.

Or, there never was much communication to begin with. I've met a few couples who marched to
the wedding altar as complete strangers. What's more, I might get into a conversation with a newly
married AM - as my wife engages his new RW bride. The stories, the expectations and perceptions
sometimes don't mesh. They are worlds apart, and soon will find the road ahead a rocky one.

Effect and cause, good thought. I see a few items in the poll that could fall under one heading,
maybe disappointment - or - trust issues. Those were two issues about which my wife was most
concerned, and long before we tied the knot, or even filed K-1.

For every "nice guy" who ends up being used - I'd wager there are fifteen "nice ladies" who end
up being misled. The disappointment comes first, then the trust breaks down. And then - their
reason for divorce (depending on who tells the story) is assigned one of the reasons above.

The more I read, the more aware we are that Elvira and I dodged some very nasty bullets through
some blind luck, and by giving one another sufficient time to build trust. There's no luck at all
involved in maintaining that trust - that's where the work is.   
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 27, 2008, 08:23:53 PM
I am surprised to see that lack of desire to communicate have gathered 11 votes.

I have always thought that lack of desire to communicate is triggered by some problems in relationship and thus, it is an effect, not cause.

You raise the issue of causality. We looked at that issue, and as best we could (nothing is perfect) tried to establish independent variables for the survey responses.

To your point about communication, there is a HUGE amount of information to support the lack of communication as a causal factor - but here is just one of them:

From -- http://ezinearticles.com/?Understanding-Why-Marriages-Fail-Can-Save-Yours&id=248871
Quote
In every relationship the ability to communicate is essential and marriage is no different. If the partners in a marriage close off to each other instead of working to resolve conflicts the problems just continue to grow larger under the surface until one or both partners explode. It is important to the success of the marriage to be able to talk to each other about dreams, hopes, and fears and feel safe about it. The bible says that “the two become one” in marriage. It is impossible for this to happen without good communication. It takes two to make a marriage work and if communication is an issue then both partners must agree to fix it.

Here is another link to one of several sources we used to establish the list -- http://www.divorcereform.org/cau.html

As I mentioned earlier, we certainly missed factors that some would claim are more significant than those we specified. Still, I feel pretty confident we managed to get the really 'big-hitters' - and will defer to any future study that might prove ours to have missed something - if, and when, that future study is commissioned.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ooooops on November 27, 2008, 08:25:52 PM
If people don't even speak the same language in lots of cases of AM/RW marriages then lack of communication seems pretty logical to me...   :-\
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 27, 2008, 08:27:41 PM
If people don't even speak the same language in lots of cases of AM/RW marriages then lack of communication seems pretty logical to me...   :-\

If your hypothesis turns out to be true, then the results we publish should show statistically significant correlation between Language and Communication.

I would point out, however, that the question in the survey was pretty explicit in seeking to segregate any language issue vice a lack of willingness to communicate effectively.

We shall see.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Vaughn on November 27, 2008, 08:41:01 PM
If people don't even speak the same language...

In 2002, several Russian ladies we know were asked by the Moscow interviewer, "If your English is so weak, and
he speaks little or no Russian - how can you two possibly have a meaningful relationship?" More than one
interview fell apart that summer, with the unprepared applicant in tears.

Back then, I thought the question to be unfair. Now I know it was not only fair, but a very intelligent,
and relevant one.
 
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ooooops on November 27, 2008, 09:09:17 PM
If your hypothesis turns out to be true, then the results we publish should show statistically significant correlation between Language and Communication.

Yes, that will be interesting to see.


Quote
I would point out, however, that the question in the survey was pretty explicit in seeking to segregate any language issue vice a lack of willingness to communicate effectively.

Well....  A dog may wish to communicate effectively but he has no means for it.   ;)   I'm joking of course, but if a person cannot express his/her thoughts then willingness may dwindle pretty quick out of frustration...   :(
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ooooops on November 27, 2008, 09:13:23 PM


Back then, I thought the question to be unfair. Now I know it was not only fair, but a very intelligent,
and relevant one.
 

Agree
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 27, 2008, 09:16:27 PM

Well....  A dog may wish to communicate effectively but he has no means for it.   ;)   I'm joking of course, but if a person cannot express his/her thoughts then willingness may dwindle pretty quick out of frustration...   :(

I think you make the point perfectly. If a dog, with a decidedly smaller capacity for intelligence and communication (and without language) can make its feelings known to humans - then it stands to reason that a man or woman, with far GREATER intelligence and capacity can find ways to effectively communicate even without language skills - IF THEY ARE MOTIVATED TO DO SO.

Exactly the point of the different survey responses.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 27, 2008, 09:29:00 PM
In 2002, several Russian ladies we know were asked by the Moscow interviewer, "If your English is so weak, and
he speaks little or no Russian - how can you two possibly have a meaningful relationship?" More than one
interview fell apart that summer, with the unprepared applicant in tears.

Back then, I thought the question to be unfair. Now I know it was not only fair, but a very intelligent,
and relevant one.
 

We considered this for inclusion in the survey - questions/responses designed to address whether people shared a language at the time of their marriage. The problem quickly became how to address the level of language they shared, and then determine a datum point for determining what level of language sharing was 'good' versus 'bad' (effective versus ineffectice - pick your descriptor). Metrics for this sort of thing are extraordinarily difficult to establish - which is why, I suspect, that embassy consular officers have not been able to easily draw a clear conclusion about how to address this issue in their decision-making.

If anyone would like to begin submitting some proposed questions and responses for a follow-up/future survey - we can begin collecting those now.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ooooops on November 27, 2008, 09:34:13 PM
I think you make the point perfectly. If a dog, with a decidedly smaller capacity for intelligence and communication (and without language) can make its feelings known to humans - then it stands to reason that a man or woman, with far GREATER intelligence and capacity can find ways to effectively communicate even without language skills - IF THEY ARE MOTIVATED TO DO SO.

Of course, the greater the motivation - the higher we are ready to jump through different hoops to get the result.   ;)    But from the other hand, dogs don't always get what they want.   I seriously doubt that they want their **** cut off, for example.   :o 
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 27, 2008, 09:38:15 PM
Of course, the greater the motivation - the higher we are ready to jump through different hoops to get the result.   ;)    But from the other hand, dogs don't always get what they want.   I seriously doubt that they want their **** cut off, for example.   :o 

And if the dog could take a similar poll/survey, do you suppose they might claim that lack of language created their problem?

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: ares on November 27, 2008, 11:38:58 PM
I chose cultural, commitment, communication. Everything else is just typical of any divorce in any relationship. Those that i chose, I think, are routed in the difference in culture, mentality, perception...thus no understanding of commitment or communication on her part in the way American men do.

But it's a general question applying to all marriages not just cross cultural as you misinterpreted it. Cross cultural friction is just one of the factors listed contributing to the breakdown of marriage. You have to read the question carefully. I think that you should vote again. Are Russians all that different from the rest of us who are of European descent? If you want to argue with someone you can invent all the differences you're able to depending on the limit of your imagination.  8)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ooooops on November 27, 2008, 11:50:24 PM
And if the dog could take a similar poll/survey, do you suppose they might claim that lack of language created their problem?

 :D :D :D

Well, if that dog can communicate as an equal partner would the thought of snipping him ever enter your mind?   ;)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 28, 2008, 12:02:00 AM
:D :D :D

Well, if that dog can communicate as an equal partner would the thought of snipping him ever enter your mind?   ;)

Sounds like you may be crossing-over into ANOTHER of the survey responses - that of Family Goals, and a possible difference in objectives.

Anyway - I think you see my point.

The survey is what it is - and it is not perfect - but it is a vast improvement over anything that has been done in the past - AND - from what I see of the results, they pass the 'common sense' test - to me. We shall see just how much disagreement we encounter once we get the report published in a few days.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ooooops on November 28, 2008, 12:07:23 AM

The survey is what it is - and it is not perfect - but it is a vast improvement over anything that has been done in the past ...

Dan, I didn't mean to undermine your efforts in any way.   I'm just chatting...  instead of doing some  choruses...   :-[ :D
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 28, 2008, 02:13:39 AM
Dan, I didn't mean to undermine your efforts in any way.   I'm just chatting...  instead of doing some  choruses...   :-[ :D

Yes, I did not recognize any malice in your questioning. In fact, I think you brought up some very good points - and I hope I answered them without becoming defensive. If I seemed defensive, I apologize. I actually was enjoying our exchange.

The truth is that I firmly believe what we have achieved with this survey is VERY significant. It addresses nearly all the major 'hot buttons' associated with cross-cultural marriage/divorce. In some instances, it dashes pre-conceived notions. In most cases it upholds what most of us already knew from 'common sense' - and in a few cases, it presents some surprises with new insights.

Anyway - your challenges and questions help. They make me/us look at the survey results with an even more critical eye - and if we missed anything, we need to be forthcoming about it. So far, I think we have been holding up reasonably well - but since there is no such thing as the 'perfect' survey, there will always be areas for further improvement and for future exploration.

Thanks for chatting - and if you really meant "choruses" (and not 'chores'), I hope your other choir members do not mind your absence  8)

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ooooops on November 28, 2008, 02:57:55 AM
Thanks for chatting - and if you really meant "choruses" (and not 'chores'), I hope your other choir members do not mind your absence  8)

Glad to be helpful  :) 

And yes, of course I meant "choruses"!   It just tells you how often I use this word or act on it...   :D ).   
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: ScottinCrimea on November 28, 2008, 07:46:20 AM
In most cases it upholds what most of us already knew from 'common sense' - and in a few cases, it presents some surprises with new insights.
- Dan

Dan,  I'm just curious as to what where the biggest surprises for you.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 28, 2008, 08:51:13 AM
Dan,  I'm just curious as to what where the biggest surprises for you.

Scott,

I plan to speak to some of that when we get the report finalized and published. So far, the results have not been surprising in their outcomes generally, though the magnitudes have been a bit difference than I expected. For example, I expected cross-cultural divorce rate to be lower than domestic divorce rate - but I would have anticipated an even lower rate for cross-cultural marriage. I also was surprised at the table of divorce rate according to length of courtship, and would have expected the 0 - 2 week group to have had a much higher rate of divorce.

More to come.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Vaughn on November 28, 2008, 07:00:53 PM
Dan,

 In the original survey, where 40% of respondents were actually divorced - were those surveyed
all ex-husbands, ex-wives, or a mix of both? If the latter, was it close to 50/50?

  It seems logical, given human nature, that while an AM (for example only) might claim there were
communication troubles - his former FSU wife might claim he was quite a control freak....often there
are contradictory reasons claimed.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 28, 2008, 08:59:17 PM
Dan,

 In the original survey, where 40% of respondents were actually divorced - were those surveyed
all ex-husbands, ex-wives, or a mix of both? If the latter, was it close to 50/50?

  It seems logical, given human nature, that while an AM (for example only) might claim there were
communication troubles - his former FSU wife might claim he was quite a control freak....often there
are contradictory reasons claimed.

Vaughn,

I am not sure of your question. The awareness campaign for the survey was to make a broad dissemination through email, and to make press releases and other internet announcements. We have no way of knowing if any of the respondents had previously been married to one another - or still are married to one another. We did a check of IP addresses to insure there were not a bunch of responses coming from the same IP - but unless there was a clear issue with obvious abuse (there was not, BTW), we accepted the responses.

In terms of the fundamental demographic of respondents, they are almost exactly 50 % that had been previously divorced PRIOR to entering into their marriage to a cross-cultural spouse.

Since I doubt that I addressed your question properly, can you please ask me again?

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Vaughn on November 28, 2008, 09:18:04 PM
I wasn't necessarily asking if both members of a marriage (or former marriage) responded - but to ask
if the entire pool of those surveyed was equally represented by males and females... if that is even known.

Gender specificity.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on November 28, 2008, 09:30:43 PM
I wasn't necessarily asking if both members of a marriage (or former marriage) responded - but to ask
if the entire pool of those surveyed was equally represented by males and females... if that is even known.

Gender specificity.

Vaughn,

See attached graphic.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Bruce on November 29, 2008, 07:12:28 AM
I know comming up with these surveys / poll is very hard.  However, I strongly believe the choice "Wife had an agenda from the start" should have been a choice.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: vwrw on November 29, 2008, 07:31:03 AM
You raise the issue of causality. We looked at that issue, and as best we could (nothing is perfect) tried to establish independent variables for the survey responses.

Dan, please note that I expressed my astonishment with the fact that some people consider the lack of the desire to communicate as one of the biggest contributors, NOT with the fact of inclusion this contributor into your list.

Is the lack of the desire to communicate a contributor? YES
Is it the biggest contributor? NO

To my mind the biggest contributors to a divorce are those ones elimination of which might preserve marriage. Elimination of the lack of the desire to communicate or infidelity
would not automatically lead to the elimination of the problems that caused it. Hence, marriage would continue to be under a danger of decay.   

On the other hand, removal of contributors such as differences in family goals or lack of commitment, and so on would preserve marriage.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: vwrw on November 29, 2008, 08:23:04 AM
Could anybody enlighten me about  what incompatible cultural differences one would bear in his/her mind when selecting it as biggest contributor?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Gator on November 29, 2008, 12:36:30 PM
Could anybody enlighten me about  what incompatible cultural differences one would bear in his/her mind when selecting it as biggest contributor?

Good question.  You would think such a conflict would have been evident prior to marriage, e.g., religious vs. heathen.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: BC on November 29, 2008, 12:49:26 PM
Could anybody enlighten me about  what incompatible cultural differences one would bear in his/her mind when selecting it as biggest contributor?

IMHO it has more to do with cultural mentality than culture itself.

Here some examples:

She makes me take my shoes off.
She won't wave or blow a kiss standing inside the doorway.
I can't whistle inside the house.
I think for the future and she thinks for the day.
Discussions are to be enjoyed.. the louder they get the better they are.
Mustard powder in my socks will help me get over my cold as will hot milk with butter and honey.

but... I have found true heaven.... I can leave the toilet seat up!
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: vwrw on November 29, 2008, 02:36:54 PM
Good question.  You would think such a conflict would have been evident prior to marriage, e.g., religious vs. heathen.

Gator, I am sorry, I did not grasp what you  said.  :selfharm:
Did you mean that the incompatible cultural differences would become quickly evident as it usually happens with  incompatible differences in perspectives of religious people vs. heathen? Alternatively, did you mean that WM are religious and FSUw are heathen and that is why representatives of these two cultures may not be compatible?

I personally think that differences between cultures may not be proved incompatible since a lot of people have succeeded to reconcile the differences in their marriages. 
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: vwrw on November 29, 2008, 02:38:01 PM
IMHO it has more to do with cultural mentality than culture itself.

Here some examples:

She makes me take my shoes off.
She won't wave or blow a kiss standing inside the doorway.
I can't whistle inside the house.
I think for the future and she thinks for the day.
Discussions are to be enjoyed.. the louder they get the better they are.
Mustard powder in my socks will help me get over my cold as will hot milk with butter and honey.

but... I have found true heaven.... I can leave the toilet seat up!

BC, even if the listed examples were peculiarities of FSUw’s mentality, the fact that you and your wife are able to coexist is a proof that the Russian mentality is compatible with American.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 29, 2008, 03:55:02 PM
will help me get over my cold as will hot milk with butter and honey.
That's not an FSU exclusive, I remember being treated with it (sans the butter) as a kid. Scott may help us here, IINM the milk/honey combination is an emollient (softener) mixture that usually soothes irritation of the upper respiratory ways, hence relieves some symptoms of a cold (sore throat), but obviously does not cure the cause itself (viral infection) ;).

On a side note, when I worked for a pharmaceutical company, I discovered the existence of a category of substances (carminatives? can't remember the exact name :() like alcohol, which were added in small quantities to cough syrups for just the opposite effect, i.e. a mild irritation: one would take a spoonful of syrup, feel his/her throat tingling and conclude "Ah, this works, I can feel it!" ;D.

The mysteries of marketing 8).
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: ScottinCrimea on November 29, 2008, 04:34:02 PM
You're right on. Sandro.  The honey does nothing to cure the infection but instead acts as a coating agent to sooth the discomfort.  Other agents such as lemon juice and warm salt water decrease the mucus that contains chemicals that promote an inflamatory response.  In addition, the salt will draw out some of the edema in the throat.  One thing you have to be cautious of is the idea (not limited to RW but I think more pronounced with them) that if a little is good, more is better.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 29, 2008, 05:25:04 PM
One thing you have to be cautious of is the idea (not limited to RW but I think more pronounced with them) that if a little is good, more is better.
Yes, I mentioned spoonfuls, not LITERS or worse yet GALLONS :( ;). The latter a word which, for some strange mental association, always reminds me of gAllons enfants de la Patrie !! ;D
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Vaughn on November 29, 2008, 05:44:13 PM
Could anybody enlighten me about  what incompatible cultural differences one would bear in his/her mind when selecting it as biggest contributor?

It was not one of my own three choices - but I often witness trouble brewing in others' kitchens,
literally. There are not too many foods that I cannot enjoy - so my wife, in addition to learning
how to prepare what we perceive as American dishes, really enjoys serving me what she is very
proficient at - Russian fare. That doesn't go over so well in all AM/RW households. Is it fair to
assume that AM generally do not seek FSU brides for those great salads they craft?

Sandro, we have men here who for the most part, eat only beef and potatoes - and when they
appear at our home for supper, we make sure there's something for them to enjoy.

How willing the bride and groom are to tolerate and accept changes in their habits and lifestyle
is key in overcoming those differences. It's difficult for some candidates to even give an inch.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 29, 2008, 05:52:11 PM
Sandro, we have men here who for the most part, eat only beef and potatoes
Vaughn, I pity them for ignoring the Mediterranean diet, a US discovery since 1945, after all (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet) ;).
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Vaughn on November 29, 2008, 06:02:03 PM
Vaughn, I pity them...

Oh, Sandro, so do I. Imagine losing a wonderful woman over a meatloaf and boiled potato habit?
They really should be courtiing ladies in the hills of Ireland.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Misha on November 29, 2008, 06:52:15 PM
How willing the bride and groom are to tolerate and accept changes in their habits and lifestyle
is key in overcoming those differences. It's difficult for some candidates to even give an inch.

I agree with you. There are some people who should not date internationally and this applies to both men and women. I personally love all Russian food (with the exception of grechka) and my wife is open to trying all foods.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Turboguy on November 30, 2008, 04:14:56 AM
Personally I doubt if "Cultural Differences" in the true meaning ever is a factor in divorce.

I can see it now.

The judge says,  So you two want a divorce and what are the reasons for the divorce?   The man answers, she puts mustard powder in my socks and feeds me borsch.   The judge says,  Didn't she feed you borsh when you went to see her in Russia?   The man answers, Yes, I think she may have but she was wearing a low cut dress and I didn't notice what she was feeding me.

Now, perhaps enough mustard powder could get me thinking about divorce but otherwise, I just can't see this as a viable motivator.

Maybe, since the survey is all foreign born women if someone married a girl from a head hunting tribe for Borneo or an Asian lass whose dinners consisted of the neighbors cats, then maybe. 

I think the factor that may have floated into someones mind in selecting this option was really difficulty adjusting to life in a new culture, living abroad, life away from their family, and friends, life where they had communication problems and where their hard earned education may have qualified them for little more than a job at McDonalds.   That factor probably plays a key part in peoples decisions to divorce but it is not the same factor as the survey question.

I think anyone divorcing over borsh, needing to take shoes off, and having to look in the mirror before we leave if we forget something and have to go back is almost non existant.   After all we get to forget about the toilet seat and that makes the trade off a bargain. 
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2008, 06:05:12 AM
Quote
The man answers, she puts mustard powder in my socks and feeds me borsch.
:ROFL:
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on December 01, 2008, 05:50:17 AM
This is one of the questions in which there was a great disparity in gender responses. There are two numbers in the cells - the first number is the mean score of all responses, and the number inside the parens is the ranking of that number relative to the other scores.

  Finances Sex Abuse Infidelity Children Family Stress Language Cultural Communication Commitment Goals
Men 2.45(6) 2.62(4) 1.96(10) 2.55(5) 1.61(12) 2.04(9) 2.39(7) 1.62(11) 2.11(8) 2.83(3) 3.24(1) 3.04(2)
Women 2.65(6) 2.67(5) 3.24(1) 2.27(9) 1.75(11) 2.12(10) 2.73(4) 1.55(12) 2.41(8) 2.73(3) 2.53(7) 3.00(2)

Note the remarkable consistency between the rankings, save for two items that were nearly polar opposite.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: GoodOlBoy on December 01, 2008, 06:08:44 AM
No surprises here!! Men don't see abuse, BUT women do (especially MENTAL abuse).

And when it comes to commitment we all know how women embrace commitment and men, well, we seem to run from it like a "ball and chain".  :)

IMHO, these are not only gender perception issues, they are deep social issues.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Co6aka on February 17, 2009, 04:06:48 PM
Quote
... they call them "VILLAGES" ...

 :ROFL:

"It's like VILLAGE!!!"  Oh man, if I had a dime for every time I had that one thrown in my face I could retire to Seychelles!  Except NYC ain't no small town.

Here's what led to my divorce, that and I had to call the cops on her once (needed to call more than one but didn't):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

Two different psychologists, both Russian-speaking, and she refused to address anything.  The psychs were "stupid" and in fact all psychs are "stupid," and the first thing I did wrong was being born, with the most recent being that I'm still alive.  She did finally enter therapy with our neighbor's wife (AW) whose professional qualifications are a high school diploma and a troubled marriage.  So finally after way too long I filed for divorce.  Good riddance, but not soon enough.

How she got me was, she lied to herself until she believed her own lies.  She even got herself.

How do you weed these types out?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Admin on February 17, 2009, 04:56:34 PM
:ROFL:

"It's like VILLAGE!!!"  Oh man, if I had a dime for every time I had that one thrown in my face I could retire to Seychelles!  Except NYC ain't no small town.

Here's what led to my divorce, that and I had to call the cops on her once (needed to call more than one but didn't):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

Two different psychologists, both Russian-speaking, and she refused to address anything.  The psychs were "stupid" and in fact all psychs are "stupid," and the first thing I did wrong was being born, with the most recent being that I'm still alive.  She did finally enter therapy with our neighbor's wife (AW) whose professional qualifications are a high school diploma and a troubled marriage.  So finally after way too long I filed for divorce.  Good riddance, but not soon enough.

How she got me was, she lied to herself until she believed her own lies.  She even got herself.

How do you weed these types out?

>>the first thing I did wrong was being born, with the most recent being that I'm still alive.<<

Gotta say, that had me LOL. Sounds familiar (sadly).

>>How do you weed these types out?<<

In a word --- facetime - and it's not foolproof.

- Dan
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Co6aka on February 17, 2009, 05:16:02 PM
Quote
In a word --- facetime - and it's not foolproof.

See, that's the thing, when you believe your own BS you can fool a polygraph, and even me.

Yeah, facetime, lots of it.  IF... I were to do this again I'd stay for 6-8 weeks at a time, every 6-8 weeks, for a long time.  Dunno exactly which direction to go, the alternative, AW, are a sad pathetic bunch -- now I remember why I did this the first time.

BUT... an indication of stupidity is the repetition of the same mistake with the expectation of a different result.

Is just ONE good woman too much to want for... sigh.   ;)

Any good monasteries around?

Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 17, 2009, 06:51:23 PM
Is just ONE good woman too much to want for... sigh. ;) Any good monasteries around?
Define monasteries more precisely, nuns may not be suitable/willing to fulfill much of your wants ::) ;D.

And beware of GOB, he may yet add monacophiles to his hit list of pedophiles and homophiles ;).
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: OlgaH on February 17, 2009, 07:00:28 PM
Define monasteries more precisely, nuns may not be suitable/willing to fulfill much of your wants ::) ;D.


Sandro, have you red Giovanni Boccaccio's "The Decameron"  ;)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Co6aka on February 17, 2009, 07:14:21 PM
Heehee... I was implying going celibate, swearing off women...

not that there seem to be many monks/priests celibate these days.  :ROFL:

Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 17, 2009, 07:16:30 PM
Sandro, have you red Giovanni Boccaccio's "The Decameron"  ;)
Of course, but that was set in the XIVth century, when Popes, too, used to have mistresses and sons therefrom that they made into cardinals. Things have changed somewhat since then, nun-wise.

not that there seem to be many monks/priests celibate these days.  :ROFL:
Priest-wise, not much: yesterday night they aired on TV a report where an actress faked being the mother of a molested child and went visiting with a hidden microcamera 5 other parish priests to ask for their advice in this delicate situation. Except for a young priest fresh out of seminary, ALL advised her NOT to tell her husband, NOT to report the fact to police authorities. Three opined she might consult the area vicar, and one just to pray for the errant priest ::).
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: OlgaH on February 17, 2009, 07:24:29 PM
Of course, but that was set in the XIVth century, when Popes, too, used to have mistresses and sons therefrom that they made into cardinals. Things have changed somewhat since then, nun-wise.

Oh, nuns don't hire the dumb gardeners any more?  ;) Customs change with the times...  :)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 17, 2009, 07:33:29 PM
Oh, nuns don't hire the dumb gardeners any more?  ;)
I don't think male gardeners, dumb or clever, are even allowed on the convent premises, but that probably depends on the Regola of the specific monastic order :). 
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: OlgaH on February 17, 2009, 07:52:13 PM
I don't think male gardeners, dumb or clever, are even allowed on the convent premises, but that probably depends on the Regola of the specific monastic order :). 

The specific orders sexist to circumvent them  ;D and  I guess a "dumb" (I meant mute) clever male gardeners will always find how to "specify" a specific monastic order  ;)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: JR on March 23, 2009, 10:40:52 PM
I picked very close to you with language, cultural and communication. I guess
language and communication should be considered the same however.

Language and communication is not the same thing. Look at how many "same language" couples can't/won't/don't "communicate."

Just because you share a common language does not mean you have the desire or the ability to communicate in an effective manner.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: badeth on September 10, 2009, 04:46:37 AM
The New York Times run an article about the increasing divorce statistics (http://www.divorceguide.com/free-divorce-advice/marriage-and-separation-advice/divorce-rates-in-america-and-other-western-countries.html). Based on the article, there are several factors that lead to divorce and the case vary from person to person.

The three main causes of divorce are:

<b>Communication</b>- Marriage is a team work and communication is one of the important ingredients to a happy marriage. It is important to open up your feelings or thoughts with your spouse. Some couples play with their emotions, they try to hide it which suddenly burst to anger.   


<b>Money</b> Money is always the culprit of divorce. Divorce may come ahead if if one spouse spends lavishly than the other or if the spouse gambles the money.

<b>Cheating</b>. Some marriages survive infidelity but many don't. Trust is the foundation of marriage;when it crumbles, it will smash marriage and create a chasm in the relationship.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: GoodOlBoy on September 10, 2009, 07:42:41 AM
Welcome to RWD Badeth!

Please, go to the introductory section and tell us a little bit about yourself.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=41.0

We are always very happy when another RW joins our forum!!  8)


GOB
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: TwoBitBandit on September 10, 2009, 11:52:22 AM
The three main causes of divorce are:

<b>Communication</b>- Marriage is a team work and communication is one of the important ingredients to a happy marriage. It is important to open up your feelings or thoughts with your spouse. Some couples play with their emotions, they try to hide it which suddenly burst to anger.   

<b>Money</b> Money is always the culprit of divorce. Divorce may come ahead if if one spouse spends lavishly than the other or if the spouse gambles the money.

<b>Cheating</b>. Some marriages survive infidelity but many don't. Trust is the foundation of marriage;when it crumbles, it will smash marriage and create a chasm in the relationship.

Well, duh.  This reminds me of a study I once read about why children fall off their bicycles.  The authors of the study concluded that there were two reasons:
1.  They lose their balance
2.  They run into things
 :rolleyes2:
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Shadow on September 10, 2009, 02:46:41 PM
Well, duh.  This reminds me of a study I once read about why children fall off their bicycles.  The authors of the study concluded that there were two reasons:
1.  They lose their balance
2.  They run into things
 :rolleyes2:
Off topic... but an even more interesting study was made towards the cause of traffic jams.
Result : too many cars at the same place at the same time. :wallbash:
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: ConnerVT on September 11, 2009, 07:50:18 AM
Even better OT:

A few years ago, a British study spent over £200,000 to answer the question of why men fall asleep after sex.  Their answer?  They're tired.   :D
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Shadow on September 11, 2009, 08:28:19 AM
Even better OT:

A few years ago, a British study spent over £200,000 to answer the question of why men fall asleep after sex.  Their answer?  They're tired.   :D
Perhaps we could get funding to do a research about forum threads wandering outside the original topic. I have a hunch it might be to poster making off-topic posts.

How about shari ;Dng $200.000 to do the research ?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: BeachStorm on May 17, 2013, 10:28:13 PM
Or, there never was much communication to begin with. I've met a few couples who marched to
the wedding altar as complete strangers. What's more, I might get into a conversation with a newly
married AM - as my wife engages his new RW bride. The stories, the expectations and perceptions
sometimes don't mesh. They are worlds apart, and soon will find the road ahead a rocky one.

Effect and cause, good thought. I see a few items in the poll that could fall under one heading,
maybe disappointment - or - trust issues. Those were two issues about which my wife was most
concerned, and long before we tied the knot, or even filed K-1.

For every "nice guy" who ends up being used - I'd wager there are fifteen "nice ladies" who end
up being misled. The disappointment comes first, then the trust breaks down. And then - their
reason for divorce (depending on who tells the story) is assigned one of the reasons above.

The more I read, the more aware we are that Elvira and I dodged some very nasty bullets through
some blind luck, and by giving one another sufficient time to build trust. There's no luck at all
involved in maintaining that trust - that's where the work is.

Please correct me if I am wrong. From what I have seen, the typical male who marries a woman from the FSU, normally claims that he is looking for a "traditional" woman. In reality, they are usually men that are either divorced with a history of financial issues, or are men who are desperate for  companionship that cannot be found in their own country.   :cluebat:
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Vaughn on May 17, 2013, 11:10:27 PM
Please correct me if I am wrong.

By having resurrected a 4 1/2 year old statement in your introductory post, I'd wager that no matter what anyone writes in response, you've already got your mind made up. Best wishes to you.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ted W on April 04, 2015, 10:52:29 PM
Meddling Russian women. This was definitely a contributing factor to my divorce. I'm remarried happily now but in my case the interpreter in my city became too involved with my wife. Helped her file a false abuse claim to get a green card. I won't mention the name but I'd avoid any Russian interpreters based in Acworth, GA.
I have since talked to other guys(3 in Atlanta) who had a similar scam run on them by the same outfit. This particular Russian businesswoman was eager to help any unhappy RW's escape(for a nominal fee of course) and encourage them to leave their husbands. My attorney said that it's very common for RW's to use their fiancee's as transport to a better life but then betray them once a better deal arises and use the local Russian community for support.
I was upset at the time but now all I have to say is: I'm so glad the bitch is gone!
Hope others have better luck.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2015, 10:56:56 PM
Sorry Ted, but I doubt the RW meddled.  You married someone looking for a better life and, when you were no longer of use, she moved on.  It likely would have happened in any event.   I'm happy for you that you found happiness, and kudos for posting your story.  Is your current wife from the former Soviet Union?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ted W on April 04, 2015, 11:30:40 PM
She's from Kazakhstan. I met her while working there. I wasn't looking and stumbled into something good.
Oh, the interpreter definitely meddled. Even helped her plan the adultery when I was away on business. But you are correct; the wife was looking for more cash than I had to offer. Admitted as such after the divorce.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: BillyB on April 04, 2015, 11:53:53 PM
My attorney said that it's very common for RW's to use their fiancee's as transport to a better life but then betray them once a better deal arises



It's very common for all insincere women anywhere in the world to use a man. Although there is a short timespan for men and women in this endeavor to get to know each other and the long distance barrier gets in the way, it's crucial for people to learn the character of the person they marry.


the wife was looking for more cash than I had to offer.



Ted, is it possible that you failed to disclose your standard of living or misled her before you got married? Often during divorces where finances matter, the man says the woman is a gold digger and the woman says she was deceived by the man to be much more than he is. When people feel they've been betrayed, they betray and can make false accusations and commit adultery and feel they are justified in doing it. Of course two wrongs don't make a right.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ted W on April 05, 2015, 12:17:15 AM
No, I didn't mislead her but thanks for the vote of confidence! Even showed her my pay stubs. I had a decent 4 br house a car and a good job which sounded better in Russia than it really was in the USA where there are bigger fish available than me. She didn't love me to begin with.
I stopped going on expeditions and only dated women in my locale.  Working overseas was great for dating and I soon forgot about old what's her name. Stumbled on this site today by accident and it triggered some old memories. So long and good luck!
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: BillyB on April 05, 2015, 09:47:28 AM
Even showed her my pay stubs. I had a decent 4 br house a car and a good job which sounded better in Russia than it really was in the USA where there are bigger fish available than me. She didn't love me to begin with.



If you gave her full disclosure of your finances and life, then she should not be surprised about anything. I have to agree with your conclusion she didn't love you to begin with. Occasionally we see a guy here post photos and talk about his visit to a woman with much of the forum criticizing him that it doesn't seem the women is "into him". So we assume she's with him for insincere reasons. We tell them it's important not to miss or dismiss red flags.


If you don't mind me asking, did the judge give your ex a chunk of your assets and make you pay spousal support more than normal for a short marriage? If she played you for a domestic violence ticket for a green card, I was wondering if she played an immigrant who spoke little English and is not very employable in front of the judge to get more support from you?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ted W on April 05, 2015, 08:14:31 PM
She already had some guy she was sleeping with when I was away on business. In my house. She disappeared without a word and ran off  to her Russian friends, saying I was abusive. But then I discovered evidence(emails) of her lover. In my state of Georgia, distribution of marital assets is based on performance. So because of the adultery, she got nothing. Had I lived in another state, I'd have been screwed. Two months before, I had forgiven her for a dui she hid from me and she called me the best husband. I missed lots of signs and did dumb things out of ignorance. I only seem to learn by peeing on the electric fence as Will Rogers used to say.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: BillyB on April 06, 2015, 12:56:54 AM
In my state of Georgia, distribution of marital assets is based on performance. So because of the adultery, she got nothing. Had I lived in another state, I'd have been screwed.



I didn't know states still exist that punishes adultery. You dodged a bullet. Judges from other states will not factor in bad behavior and try to get the weaker party, usually the immigrant woman, a larger chunk of money/assets to move on with her life than if she was an American citizen. Why didn't the judge punish you? You mentioned the ex filed a domestic violence charge against you to get her green card. BTW, you're not the first man to come to this forum with a false domestic violence charge filed against you for a green card and you won't be the last. I'm not trying to be nosy but it's important for newbies to read these horror stories so they understand how important it is to choose the right woman instead of any woman.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Ted W on April 06, 2015, 02:42:01 AM
Initially she had planned to get as much as she could. Eventually she capitulated and agreed to take nothing, probably she because was on probation for the DUI, she got caught cheating and she had no evidence to back up her claim. Also she got caught (thanks to me) for stealing expensive clothes,and jewelry from Woodstock high school students where she worked as well as boxes of school supplies I found hidden in the garage. I reported this to the county attorney after she ran off and they did an investigation and she was exposed. Also, I had a tough attorney who said he was going to teach that bitch a lesson, and he sure did. Had she gone to court she was going to be hammered about all this by my lawyer. She got nothing and we got an admission of wrong doing.
 She seemed to be fine in Russia; from a good family. But when she got to America, she fell in with a bad crowd of Russians, primarily the owner of Virtual Translations in Acworth, a vicious Russian woman. All the Russians that hung around there stole; I received a gift of a leather jacket from my ex-wife that I later found was "hot", and had been shoplifted from the store where one of her crowd worked.
It was without a doubt the worst experience of my life. Pure hell.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Barnes on April 06, 2015, 03:46:02 AM
She's a bitch, and is that so hard to believe? Ted W already stated it, and he knows her better than anybody else in this room. Okay?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 06, 2015, 07:05:48 AM
Some men/Sir Galahads on these forums are in self-denial about FSU women who are bitches..they always dig and try and lay the blame with the man.

Same as the many foreign men that get scammed in the FSU,particularly in Ukraine,it's always the mans fault for being a trusting idiot...whilst the lying scammer woman seems to get absolved of all blame. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: mendeleyev on April 06, 2015, 10:07:06 AM
There are always two sides to every story. Always. That doesn't excuse a woman behaving badly, but it is life.

Character matters, and it amazes me at how fast some engagements and marriages happen. This game of international marriage is designed to put two people on a conveyor belt at high speed, and it is up to the man to slow things down. He is the one with the power of traveling to her, paying for the process of migration and assimilation, and so he is the one who can shift into a lower gear.

If a woman insists on staying in the fast lane, find another woman. The sad fact is that men, all of us, are capable of falling in love with photos and we project the character traits we want her to exhibit onto that photo, this making it hard to recognize the red flags that appear.

Slow the process down, make more visits, spend more time on Skype (but never mistake Skype for being in person), and instead of flying women off on exotic vacations, spend as much time as possible in her natural environment. Then spend some more time in her natural setting, and allow her to get to know you as you get to know her.

This stuff is hard, and shortcuts rarely end well.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 06, 2015, 10:32:37 AM
Some men/Sir Galahads on these forums are in self-denial about FSU women who are bitches..they always dig and try and lay the blame with the man.

Same as the many foreign men that get scammed in the FSU,particularly in Ukraine,it's always the mans fault for being a trusting idiot...whilst the lying scammer woman seems to get absolved of all blame. :rolleyes:


It is not self-denial when I have a problem you labeling every FSU woman you've met (and then some) as bitches, whores, etc.


Either you have very bad taste in women or you are oblivious to their "charms."
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 06, 2015, 12:23:28 PM
Once again the guy who likes to impress  women by flashing his cash gets it wrong..nothing new there.... the reality is i've only met up with one woman in the FSU..in Kiev....capiche ?

Kindly show everyone the posts where you claim i have met all these women in the FSU and called them bitches and whores...or show yourself to be totally dishonest,which i have a problem with.


The comments i made were about OTHER men on these forums who have told their stories.


So Muzh before you make any more inane comments.making yourself look stupid in the process..get your facts right eh ? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 06, 2015, 12:29:17 PM
And the some doesn't mean anything to you?


I never used dinero to impress any woman.


How much dinero do you think a civil servant can amass?


The problem you may have is the lack of charisma.


BTW, I was told by many damsels that I'm a charming person. Is that the same as charisma?  ;D
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 06, 2015, 12:34:36 PM
You said "every FSU woman i've met (and then some )"..so don't try and weasel your way out of it and instead show all these FSU women i've met.

"Bitches and whores" is plural..meaning more than one.

If you're going to make a personal attack on someone..back it up .

And yes you openly bragged on the other forum about how you love to buy women bottles of Champers when you meet them..not just in the FSU...and how any guy that doesn't lead with his money is a cheapskate.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: fathertime on April 06, 2015, 12:59:17 PM
My feeling is that it is ok if a man has 'charisma and chooses to wine/ dine and lead with his wallet, also...especially if it is somewhat sustainable.   Women want to have novel experiences with their 'man' and often those experiences require money....i.e. a helicopter tour of the city in the evening.or something of that nature.

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 06, 2015, 01:03:17 PM
You said "every FSU woman i've met (and then some )"..so don't try and weasel your way out of it and instead show all these FSU women i've met.

"Bitches and whores" is plural..meaning more than one.

If you're going to make a personal attack on someone..back it up .

And yes you openly bragged on the other forum about how you love to buy women bottles of Champers when you meet them..not just in the FSU...and how any guy that doesn't lead with his money is a cheapskate.


LMFAO


I'm at a bar and single. Instead of using the old and tried, not to mention, cheap way to start a conversation with a single woman at the same bar by offering to buy her a drink, I suggested if they wanted to join me in drinking some champagne.


As I said, charm and charisma. Of course you would not know what I'm talking about.  ;D


I'm pretty sure you would ask them to buy you a drink so you don't get the impression they are after your money, right Romeo?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 06, 2015, 01:04:07 PM
My feeling is that it is ok if a man has 'charisma and chooses to wine/ dine and lead with his wallet, also...especially if it is somewhat sustainable.   Women want to have novel experiences with their 'man' and often those experiences require money....i.e. a helicopter tour of the city in the evening.or something of that nature.

Fathertime!


DAMN!!!


A helicopter ride!!!


Dude, you are way above my league.  ;D
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 06, 2015, 01:13:53 PM
Never mind with the smart -alec comments and snide remarks Muzh..your attempts at deflection don't work with me..and no i don't need women to buy me a drink

Show all these women i've called "bitches and whores " that i've met in the FSU...or show everyone on here what you really are...because we both know what you really are don't we.?

You're full of it..and it ain't charisma or charm ;D


Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 06, 2015, 01:22:25 PM
Sorry mate.


I'm not the one going to bed with the palm of my hand.


Was trying to give you some pointers but it is obvious you are so damn cheap to see one way to change your luck.


It is NOT the women's fault they don't want to hang out with you.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Turboguy on April 06, 2015, 03:14:07 PM
My feeling is that it is ok if a man has 'charisma and chooses to wine/ dine and lead with his wallet, also...especially if it is somewhat sustainable.   Women want to have novel experiences with their 'man' and often those experiences require money....i.e. a helicopter tour of the city in the evening.or something of that nature.

Fathertime!


If that is the kind of life the man likes to live and most importantly if it is sustainable then I see nothing wrong with that.  I do think there are guys who may go searching for a woman and spend money to impress her who really don't have the income to sustain it and don't plan on that kind of life after they marry.  That isn't so good.  I see lots of people as well who have no self control when it comes to spending money, especially money they don't have and should not be spending.  I feel sorry for the woman who ends up with on of those. 


The cold hard reality is that some women would decide to marry a guy who would take her on a helicopter ride and her reasons are not that she loves the man but that she loves the adventurous life she thinks she will have with him.  Guys do the same thing in marrying a woman with a beautiful face or a hot body even though they have little attraction to the human being inside.


People can find lots of ways to screw up their life.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 06, 2015, 03:16:02 PM
So Muzh,

               The whole forum sees you for what you are..a fantasist who makes dishonest claims about other forum members...and then tries to deflect to hide his lies with more fantasies.

You have no credibility at all..zilch.

As for you,well i hear the self-styled suave man about town,who perceives himself as full of charisma wasn't so charismatic and full of himself when he received a telephone call from another forum member who wanted to call you out..exactly the opposite i heard LMAO.


You see i deal in reality not fantasy..unlike you...it's easy for guys like you to make out you're something you're not on the internet..like i said you're full of it.

I don't need pointers from a guy like you that we have a saying for where i live "all mouth and no trousers " .
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 06, 2015, 09:00:14 PM
Chelsea, keep what happens on other forums at those forums.  BTW, I think stalking someone you have never met in person, based on questions he asks you on a forum, calling him at work, and threatening him is the epitome of bad form.  Even if done because of desperation.


As for Muzh, he visited one, exactly one woman in the FSU, and he ended up marrying her.   In American culture, at the time Muzh was single, no self respecting woman would have looked twice at a man who was not willing to pay for dinner/drinks, etc.  Anything else, and he would have been viewed as a cheapskate, not worth the time to get to know.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 06, 2015, 09:03:30 PM
She seemed to be fine in Russia; from a good family.


I would submit you just didn't know her.  Plus, "good families" there included the likes of party members who thought nothing of informing on others to get ahead. 


Personally, I think the focus on how much you earn, what you can give her, etc., is not the basis of a loving marriage.  It just goes again to prove my point that many of these unions are based on economic disparity.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: I/O on April 06, 2015, 11:04:08 PM
Not sure if I'll ever be qualified to speak on this exact topic but if a similar survey were conducted among those jailed for 1st degree murder..... ::)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: msmobyone on April 07, 2015, 12:14:32 AM
There are always two sides to every story. Always. That doesn't excuse a woman behaving badly, but it is life.

Normally, agree with you, Mendy - but not, today...many mariages end when one partner is not honest or violent.

Character matters, and it amazes me at how fast some engagements and marriages happen. This game of international marriage is designed to put two people on a conveyor belt at high speed, and it is up to the man to slow things down. He is the one with the power of traveling to her, paying for the process of migration and assimilation, and so he is the one who can shift into a lower gear.

Wise words, but as their saying goes - ''you have to eat 50 tonnes of salt together to REALLY know your partner. '' 

If a woman insists on staying in the fast lane, find another woman. The sad fact is that men, all of us, are capable of falling in love with photos and we project the character traits we want her to exhibit onto that photo, this making it hard to recognize the red flags that appear.

Slow the process down, make more visits, spend more time on Skype (but never mistake Skype for being in person), and instead of flying women off on exotic vacations, spend as much time as possible in her natural environment. Then spend some more time in her natural setting, and allow her to get to know you as you get to know her.

This stuff is hard, and shortcuts rarely end well.

 :clapping:
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 07, 2015, 12:19:47 AM
Some men/Sir Galahads on these forums are in self-denial about FSU women who are bitches..they always dig and try and lay the blame with the man.

Same as the many foreign men that get scammed in the FSU,particularly in Ukraine,it's always the mans fault for being a trusting idiot...whilst the lying scammer woman seems to get absolved of all blame. :rolleyes:


I don't get the "it's not their fault for being an idiot" excuse.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 07, 2015, 12:24:03 AM
Chelsea, keep what happens on other forums at those forums.  BTW, I think stalking someone you have never met in person, based on questions he asks you on a forum, calling him at work, and threatening him is the epitome of bad form.  Even if done because of desperation.


As for Muzh, he visited one, exactly one woman in the FSU, and he ended up marrying her.   In American culture, at the time Muzh was single, no self respecting woman would have looked twice at a man who was not willing to pay for dinner/drinks, etc.  Anything else, and he would have been viewed as a cheapskate, not worth the time to get to know.


Muzh has been married for what?  100 years now.   :P   Maybe the keys to a happy marriage is free flowing champagne.  haha


I never understood why some guys care so much about how much they spend while dating.  It's suppose to be about having fun and getting to know someone.  Maybe it's time to make a spreadsheet with some pie charts for dating.


As for the the bitches and whores comments.  I think everyone can have bitchy tendencies while also having good qualities.  It is almost never black and white.  There must have been some good qualities that attracted you, in the first place.  Divorce may make you forget about them.  haha


The stalking bit is disturbing and should be addressed with a professional.   
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 07, 2015, 11:15:15 AM

Muzh has been married for what?  100 years now.   :P   Maybe the keys to a happy marriage is free flowing champagne.  haha




115!! And man, you are so right about free flowing champagne and a happy marriage.  :clapping:


I never understood why some guys care so much about how much they spend while dating.  It's suppose to be about having fun and getting to know someone


BINGO!!!


As for the the bitches and whores comments. I think everyone can have bitchy tendencies while also having good qualities.  It is almost never black and white.  There must have been some good qualities that attracted you, in the first place.  Divorce may make you forget about them.  haha



Absolutely. However, I do question those who constantly complain about every woman they meet (and haven't met yet.)

[/size]

The stalking bit is disturbing and should be addressed with a professional.


LFU


You have no clue how close it came to that.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 07, 2015, 12:10:06 PM
Some men/Sir Galahads on these forums are in self-denial about FSU women who are bitches..they always dig and try and lay the blame with the man.

Same as the many foreign men that get scammed in the FSU,particularly in Ukraine,it's always the mans fault for being a trusting idiot...whilst the lying scammer woman seems to get absolved of all blame. :rolleyes:

The man is going to a foreign country and leading with his wallet.  So yes, I would say in a sense, he is to blame.  I am not absolving from blame a woman who uses the man, but look at some of the responses here on full disclosure of finances.  That suggests a monetary transaction, rather than a marriage based on love, or even mutual respect.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: AC on April 08, 2015, 04:38:48 PM

I'm at a bar and single. Instead of using the old and tried, not to mention, cheap way to start a conversation with a single woman at the same bar by offering to buy her a drink, I suggested if they wanted to join me in drinking some champagne.


What kind of guy goes to a bar alone today, and then when he is so desperate for some company, offers to buy a perfect stranger some champagne?  Oh that's right, the geriatric desperate type who can't get a date, so he ends up in a bar.

Buying some champagne for your date at a nice restaurant?  Yes, that would be classy and charming.  Single and alone at a bar because you can't get a date?  Desperate.

In fact when other guys read between the lines it's obvious why some guys headed to Ukraine in the first place.  They were completely alone and father time (not you ft  ;) ) was advancing rapidly.  Protestations aside, it's even more obvious.  Boy, did Chelseaboy have you pegged.   
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 08, 2015, 05:36:04 PM
Muzh has been married for 15 years, so I don't think he has been bar hopping in quite some time.  He was also a single father of 2 very young children before he married his current wife, so I doubt he was bar hopping then, either.  I get the impression, from past posts, that Muzh was into the bar scene before his first marriage, but he can clarify.  I know couples who met in bars, all when they were in their twenties.  I think it is just another way to meet people.  In their forties?  Not so much, it's more like this -
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US70d4Zxu30 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US70d4Zxu30)
 
We were recently on vacation, and stopped for dinner at a local pizza joint.  It had a long sports bar at the front of the restaurant.  I was seated on a platform, above the bar, and could see the action from my vantage point.  I noticed a young man, and two pretty girls, sitting separately.  Then, the man bought the girls drinks, and they moved over to sit with him.  He didn't look desperate or old, in fact, he looked very much like this -
(http://malecelebbio.com/gallery/2012/08/Devin-Paisley-12-118x150.jpg)
The dynamic was interesting, as one girl was very into him, but he wasn't picking up on the girl's signals. 
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 08, 2015, 06:38:24 PM
Muzh has been married for 15 years, so I don't think he has been bar hopping in quite some time.  He was also a single father of 2 very young children before he married his current wife, so I doubt he was bar hopping then, either.  I get the impression, from past posts, that Muzh was into the bar scene before his first marriage, but he can clarify.  I know couples who met in bars, all when they were in their twenties.  I think it is just another way to meet people.  In their forties?  Not so much, it's more like this -
 

 
We were recently on vacation, and stopped for dinner at a local pizza joint.  It had a long sports bar at the front of the restaurant.  I was seated on a platform, above the bar, and could see the action from my vantage point.  I noticed a young man, and two pretty girls, sitting separately.  Then, the man bought the girls drinks, and they moved over to sit with him.  He didn't look desperate or old, in fact, he looked very much like this -
(http://malecelebbio.com/gallery/2012/08/Devin-Paisley-12-118x150.jpg)
The dynamic was interesting, as one girl was very into him, but he wasn't picking up on the girl's signals.


Boe, why try to explain anything to a guy who tries to impress women by doing handstands on a skateboard? (Ooo, very manly)


Not only he is infantile, but also cheap.


Not to mention he has to change his avatar just to be accepted.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: AC on April 08, 2015, 06:41:58 PM
M., I find it very interesting that you got married 15 years ago.   :popcorn:

Guess trying to buy some company in a bar when you were single and desperate did not turn out.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 08, 2015, 06:45:55 PM
M., I find it very interesting that you got married 15 years ago.   :popcorn:

Guess trying to buy some company in a bar when you were single and desperate did not turn out.


Is that really you in that avatar?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 08, 2015, 09:36:31 PM
What kind of guy goes to a bar alone today, and then when he is so desperate for some company, offers to buy a perfect stranger some champagne?  Oh that's right, the geriatric desperate type who can't get a date, so he ends up in a bar.



Back before I started working for myself, I was working for a company that had me in different locations.  I really didn't have a home per say.  I could either stay in the hotel or go out, have a drink and be around people.  I prefer being around people instead of being in a hotel room.  I understand why some people can't do it, but hardly desperate for those that have no problem in social environments.  I met some great people going out alone that I am still friends with to this day.

Not to mention the times I have traveled to other countries on my own.   If that is desperate, I prefer that to waiting for someone to go with me and hold my hand.  :)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 09, 2015, 05:29:20 AM
Boethius,

                In your post 121 you say "The man is going to a foreign country and leading with his wallet.So yes,i would say in a sense,he is to blame ".

You also don't absolve the women who use the men from blame.

So,we're in agreement.


Yet,you extol the virtues of a member who believes in leading with his wallet to gain the affections of women...namely Muzh...so you contradict yourself.

Not for Muzh the cheapskate ( in his opinion) method of getting to know a woman by offering to buy her a drink..oh no,no less than bottles of Champagne to buy her affection will suffice...a classic leading with his wallet believer who splashes the cash to impress the girl.

This is NOT about normal dating where a man dates a woman and pays for everything,restaurant,drinks etc...this is all about a guy who bigs himself up by saying "look how great i am,i can afford to buy bottles of Champers for girls i've just met..never mind the charisma i haven't got,just feel the bulge in my wallet ".

Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: jone on April 09, 2015, 06:52:37 AM

115!! And man, you are so right about free flowing champagne and a happy marriage.  :clapping:



BINGO!!!



Absolutely. However, I do question those who constantly complain about every woman they meet (and haven't met yet.)

[/size]

LFU


You have no clue how close it came to that.

I am actually curious:

Now that you've eliminated the need to go to work every day, and you are building your dream house, how has your life changed in your spousal relationship?    Are you underfoot, as they say?  Does she let you golf occasionally?  Is it a more relaxed lifestyle? 

Please, do tell.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2015, 07:52:52 AM
Boethius,

                In your post 121 you say "The man is going to a foreign country and leading with his wallet.So yes,i would say in a sense,he is to blame ".

You also don't absolve the women who use the men from blame.

So,we're in agreement.


Yet,you extol the virtues of a member who believes in leading with his wallet to gain the affections of women...namely Muzh...so you contradict yourself.

Not for Muzh the cheapskate ( in his opinion) method of getting to know a woman by offering to buy her a drink..oh no,no less than bottles of Champagne to buy her affection will suffice...a classic leading with his wallet believer who splashes the cash to impress the girl.

This is NOT about normal dating where a man dates a woman and pays for everything,restaurant,drinks etc...this is all about a guy who bigs himself up by saying "look how great i am,i can afford to buy bottles of Champers for girls i've just met..never mind the charisma i haven't got,just feel the bulge in my wallet ".


I don't think that buying champagne for someone you want to have a drink with and get to know is leading with your wallet.  If you believe women are impressed by men who buy them drinks as an introduction, you know little about women.   
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 09, 2015, 08:34:39 AM
Well,according to the forum expert on dating women,the romeo named Muzh,buying drinks( Champagne) for women you don't know IS the way to impress them.

So,maybe he knows little about women eh ?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: AC on April 09, 2015, 08:48:02 AM

It is not self-denial when I have a problem you labeling every FSU woman you've met (and then some) as bitches, whores, etc.



It looks like you were able to make unsubstantiated insults and allegations about Chelseaboy's character here.  Very interesting. 
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2015, 09:12:31 AM
Well,according to the forum expert on dating women,the romeo named Muzh,buying drinks( Champagne) for women you don't know IS the way to impress them.

So,maybe he knows little about women eh ?

See full quotes below.  Bolding is mine, for emphasis.
 
Care to explain to me where these posts state buying drinks is the way to impress a woman? 
 
And the some doesn't mean anything to you?


I never used dinero to impress any woman.


How much dinero do you think a civil servant can amass?


The problem you may have is the lack of charisma.


BTW, I was told by many damsels that I'm a charming person. Is that the same as charisma?  ;D

LMFAO


I'm at a bar and single. Instead of using the old and tried, not to mention, cheap way to start a conversation with a single woman at the same bar by offering to buy her a drink, I suggested if they wanted to join me in drinking some champagne.


As I said, charm and charisma. Of course you would not know what I'm talking about.  ;D 


I'm pretty sure you would ask them to buy you a drink so you don't get the impression they are after your money, right Romeo?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 09, 2015, 09:14:31 AM
I am actually curious:

Now that you've eliminated the need to go to work every day, and you are building your dream house, how has your life changed in your spousal relationship?    Are you underfoot, as they say?  Does she let you golf occasionally?  Is it a more relaxed lifestyle? 

Please, do tell.


Jone, you should try retirement. Love it!! Especially when at the beginning of the month you get a fat check.  ;D


The house is on hold for the time being. We are still looking for that perfect place to build it.


Spousal relationship? More time with the wife for lunch and other pleasures <wink, wink>


And golf? You have to know how to approach it. For example: Honey, I'd like to spend a lot more time with our son so I'm going to teach him how to golf. He's been bugging me to teach him. Take a wild guess what her response is?


Is it a a more relaxed lifestyle? Everyday is a Saturday for me.  :cheesy:


Now, to address some of the accusations from the other "gents."
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: fathertime on April 09, 2015, 09:20:50 AM
It seems to me that Muzh was probably in his early to mid 40 's when dating after a divorce.   So he went out sometimes to a bar and bought bottles and whooped it up.  He made money and spent it when during the brief windows of opportunity he had...while also attending to his children most nights which from what I gathered he was doing.  I wouldn't begrudge him for any of this.  He probably did have some flair to his personality...as I doubt it twas his good looks that got him anywhere.   ;)

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 09, 2015, 09:24:04 AM

Back before I started working for myself, I was working for a company that had me in different locations.  I really didn't have a home per say.  I could either stay in the hotel or go out, have a drink and be around people.  I prefer being around people instead of being in a hotel room.  I understand why some people can't do it, but hardly desperate for those that have no problem in social environments.  I met some great people going out alone that I am still friends with to this day.

Not to mention the times I have traveled to other countries on my own.   If that is desperate, I prefer that to waiting for someone to go with me and hold my hand.  :)


LFU


Maybe the problem some of these guys have is that, being social rejects, it is painful to go into a crowd and mingle. I love interacting with other people. I find most people have something interesting to say. There is nothing prettier that watching a babe smile and giggle when telling a story or listening to one.


Now, those who state that people going to bar are desperate, I guess the world is full of desperate people based on the number of bars/pubs/night clubs/etc. out there. And you can see how much they are suffering by being happy, celebratory, and INCLUSIVE.


OR maybe it is these guys' own failings and insecurities that preclude them from being social and interacting with other people, ESPECIALLY those of the opposite sex.


I feel sorry for those. There is no help. But hey, to each his own. Right?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 09, 2015, 09:28:03 AM

LFU


Maybe the problem some of these guys have is that, being social rejects, it is painful to go into a crowd and mingle. I love interacting with other people. I find most people have something interesting to say. There is nothing prettier that watching a babe smile and giggle when telling a story or listening to one.


Now, those who state that people going to bar are desperate, I guess the world is full of desperate people based on the number of bars/pubs/night clubs/etc. out there. And you can see how much they are suffering by being happy, celebratory, and INCLUSIVE.


OR maybe it is these guys' own failings and insecurities that preclude them from being social and interacting with other people, ESPECIALLY those of the opposite sex.


I feel sorry for those. There is no help. But hey, to each his own. Right?


I have a feeling the people saying it's desperate are the ones you see in the corner sipping on their beers watching the rest of us have fun.  haha



Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2015, 09:29:43 AM
Hmm, I don't know about the "social rejects" part of your post, Muzh.
 
I think people enjoy different things.  You are probably right about extroverts.  However, a man who doesn't enjoy that type of scene is not going to be happy with a woman who does.  And vice versa.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 09, 2015, 09:38:19 AM
It seems to me that Muzh was probably in his early to mid 40 's when dating after a divorce.   So he went out sometimes to a bar and bought bottles and whooped it up.  He made money and spent it when during the brief windows of opportunity he had...while also attending to his children most nights which from what I gathered he was doing.  I wouldn't begrudge him for any of this.  He probably did have some flair to his personality...as I doubt it twas his good looks that got him anywhere.   ;)

Fathertime!


FT,


I was in my late 20s when I got my first job with NYS. Think what a young guy who is outgoing, in excellent shape and making more money than he can spend would do? Also good looks.  ;D


Buy a skateboard and do handstands? Live like a hermit because I can't face rejection?


When I divorced I was 44 yo with two kids under the age of 5. I honestly didn't have time to go barchasing. Even when my mom and brother offered to babysit so I could go out and relax. I did a few times but my heart was not into it. I had other priorities.


Even then there was an intern in my office who had the hots for me and she didn't hide it. Man, if she just a little bit older. Problem is she was 20 years younger than me and in grad school. She had all her life ahead of her and I didn't think it was fair to burden her with an instant family and deprive her of things she was going to learn as she grew up.


What these idiots are doing is projecting themselves into this conversation. I had plenty of opportunities to go back to the dating scene and live it up. Already did that before I got married. As a matter of fact, that's how I met my ex. Now, there was one who was interested in my income. Notice I didn't say wallet. ;)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 09, 2015, 09:40:08 AM
Hmm, I don't know about the "social rejects" part of your post, Muzh.
 
I think people enjoy different things.  You are probably right about extroverts.  However, a man who doesn't enjoy that type of scene is not going to be happy with a woman who does.  And vice versa.


Boe, you are absolutely correct and I should apologize to those who are not outgoing.


Still, there are plenty of social rejects out there as you can see.  ;D
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 09, 2015, 09:41:10 AM

It looks like you were able to make unsubstantiated insults and allegations about Chelseaboy's character here.  Very interesting.


That is my opinion. Sorry. Try again.


P.S. Just like his depiction of me as Romeo.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 09, 2015, 09:43:31 AM
Boethius,

                In your post 121 you say "The man is going to a foreign country and leading with his wallet.So yes,i would say in a sense,he is to blame ".

You also don't absolve the women who use the men from blame.




Yes. Yes. Women are to blame too.


Right, loverboy?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 09, 2015, 02:20:35 PM
No Muzh,

                    Your comments aimed at me about bitches and whores was not your opinion..but something you claimed i did.

I still await you showing the proof of your claims..but you can't can you liar ?

Like i said you have no crediblity and anything you say on here can be regarded as the statements of a fantasizing  Walter Mitty type personality
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 09, 2015, 02:39:03 PM
Boethius,

                 Seriously..you don't think buying women you've just met in a bar Champagne instead of just a drink isn't done to impress them ?

You know little about men it seems.

Ok..maybe you can enlighten us to how buying women you've just met Champagne shows a man has charm and charisma...which Muzh claims it shows he has.

Charm and charisma is part of a persons personality..you either have it or you don't..any man flashing his cash can buy Champagne for women he's just met..that doesn't give him charm or charisma...far from it.

It shows he lacks the personality,charm and charisma to get the attention of a girl just through who he is.

Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2015, 03:00:50 PM
Boethius,

                 Seriously..you don't think buying women you've just met in a bar Champagne instead of just a drink isn't done to impress them ?

You know little about men it seems.

The man's intention is irrelevant to how a woman perceives the issue.   However, no, I don't think it is done to impress (them) her any more than buying a woman a beer is done to impress her.  Do you really believe if a man buys a woman a beer, he believes he has impressed her enough to get her into his bed?

Quote
Ok..maybe you can enlighten us to how buying women you've just met Champagne
shows a man has charm and charisma...which Muzh claims it shows he has.
I don't believe I ever stated that.  Perhaps you can point to that in my post.


Quote
Charm and charisma is part of a persons personality..you either have it or you
don't..any man flashing his cash can buy Champagne for women he's just met..that
doesn't give him charm or charisma...far from it.
 
It shows he lacks the personality,charm and charisma to get the attention of a girl just through who he is.

You are focussing on the wrong thing.  The cash is irrelevant.  It is the idea that is important to the woman, the approach.  It is the icebreaker, the way to make that initial connection.  The charm was in finding an approach that distinguished Muzh from the average Chelseaboy in the bar so that the woman could get to know who he is.  For another man, it could be magic tricks.  For my better half, it was a killer smile with the most gorgeous dimples a woman has ever seen.  Capisce?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 09, 2015, 03:11:42 PM
Where did i say that you stated a man buying girls Champagne in a bar shows he has charisma and class ?

I don't need to buy Champagne for a girl in a bar to distinguish myself from the average Muzh in the bar..capiche ?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2015, 03:13:04 PM
Still missing the point.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 09, 2015, 03:24:56 PM
Maybe that's because i've never had to resort to desperate-sounding methods to catch a girls attention in a bar...a smile at her and saying hello did the trick for me.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2015, 03:30:42 PM
You still don't get it.   Your way is not the only way.
 
I don't think it is desperate sounding.  It is part of what is likely a "bigger than life"  personality.  It also may be cultural.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2015, 03:38:52 PM
BTW, for a single man making good money, spending anywhere from $60 to $300 on a bottle of champagne (what good bottles plus corkage go for) is not exactly breaking the bank.  It's probably a good deal less than the girl spent for her manicure/pedicure, and definitely less than what she shelled out for a good haircut and highlights.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 09, 2015, 04:40:01 PM
I don't know about where you live,but a good haircut and highlights for a woman doesn't cost USD 300 here,and i doubt it costs a months average salary in Ukraine either.

BTW a bottle of Don Perignon will set you back USD 485 from Selfridges in London.and a man of such charisma and charm as Muzh could offer a girl he's just met in a bar no less i'm sure.

But why stop there ?

As the wallet is out..lets offer her a weeks holiday to the Maldives while we're at it.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2015, 05:05:14 PM
If you live in London, below is a price list.  Cost of a haircut and highlights is £240 (the lower priced stylist), which at today's official rate, is US$353.

http://limozlogli.com/services/prices/ (http://limozlogli.com/services/prices/)

Or, with a junior stylist (which usually means less than a year's experience) at another less fashionable London salon, £185, which is US$272.

http://www.radiohairsalon.com/servicesandprices.htm (http://www.radiohairsalon.com/servicesandprices.htm)

If $250-$300 is the average price of a cut and highlights in my Canadian city, I can guarantee it is higher in most larger American cities.
 
I wasn't referring to Ukraine, as Muzh wasn't.  However, a good bottle of champagne (now officially sparkling wine) can be purchased for much less than in the West, and would be comparable to what a Ukrainian girl would spend to be dolled up.
 
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2015, 05:09:11 PM
Quote
BTW a bottle of Don Perignon will set you back USD 485 from Selfridges in
London.and a man of such charisma and charm as Muzh could offer a girl he's just
met in a bar no less i'm sure.

But why stop there ?

As the wallet
is out..lets offer her a weeks holiday to the Maldives while we're at it.

Good bottles of Dom Perignon or Taittinger, not the top end, but still very nice, go for less than $200 in the US.  Liquor is relatively cheap there, as it is not heavily taxed.   One could also get a very nice Veuve Clicquot for $60 or $70 (I prefer it when not sweet.  The purpose of drinking champagne is to change your mood, and Veuve Clicquot makes one happy rather than gloomy).
 
Your comments on the wallet again miss the point.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 09, 2015, 05:35:14 PM
I don't know about where you live,but a good haircut and highlights for a woman doesn't cost USD 300 here,and i doubt it costs a months average salary in Ukraine either.



Heh, is this where they put a bowl over your head and cut around it?

BTW a bottle of Don Perignon will set you back USD 485 from Selfridges in London.and a man of such charisma and charm as Muzh could offer a girl he's just met in a bar no less i'm sure.

But why stop there ?

As the wallet is out..lets offer her a weeks holiday to the Maldives while we're at it.


Boy, you are nosy. I didn't buy Dom Perignon (shows you have never bought one) at the bar. That was for High-end galas. I would settle for Freixenet Brut and for special occasions Moet & Chandon. 


The more you write the more you show your true self. The reason for going overseas to babes who don't know good English? As in not letting them into your greediness?


And Boe, you are right, HE doesn't get it and never will.


Sad, really. I mean for the girl who will tie up with him.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 09, 2015, 05:56:39 PM
Hey Muzh,

                 Don't be such a cheapskate,showing your true colours now...i'd have thought you'd have bought a bottle of Louis Roederer to share with the girl you'd just met at the bar...a mere USD 12,500 from Selfridges..chump change to a man of your self-styled charisma and charm.


You're seriously starting to bore me with your inane postings,lying claims and general bad-mouthing of other posters on here.

You have no class whatsoever..calling people morons among other choice names ,and insulting them in anyway which comes to your narrow mind...i've seen more charm in a Hells Angels rally than from your vitriolic ramblings.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2015, 06:12:54 PM
Quote
You have no idea who you're making yourself look foolish to..you're utterly
clueless LOL.

Why?  Are you John Terry?  Gary Cahill?  Prince Harry?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 09, 2015, 06:13:29 PM
It is almost midnight there and you are still at home?


Eek.


And so many women dying to socialize.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 09, 2015, 06:36:54 PM
The budget-conscious should also consider a bottle of Spumante brut, made with the same method (la méthode Champénoise) but called metodo classico for copyright reasons here and selling for €15-25 ;):

(http://www.lascelta.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/700x477/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/s/dsc00537.jpg#ActualImage)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Bee Farmer on April 09, 2015, 10:47:10 PM

LMFAO


I'm at a bar and single. Instead of using the old and tried, not to mention, cheap way to start a conversation with a single woman at the same bar by offering to buy her a drink, I suggested if they wanted to join me in drinking some champagne.


As I said, charm and charisma. Of course you would not know what I'm talking about.  ;D


I'm pretty sure you would ask them to buy you a drink so you don't get the impression they are after your money, right Romeo?

Muzh makes it quite clear that he was doing this not just because it was different, but specifically because it was not a cheap way to start a conversation.

This implies that he was intentionally leading with his wallet.

Anyone arguing anything else is only making a fool of themselves.

Whether guys or gals want to admit it or not, most guys try to take advantage of the economic disparities.  I've been guilty of it myself.  You want to show a girl how good you are at providing for her, and you go a little too far.  (Probably trying to overcompensate for other shortcomings, or simply because it is easier to spend some extra money than to show someone other qualities like loyalty, courage, dependability, care and affection, etc.)

Back to the topic...the number one reason for divorce is marriage.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 09, 2015, 10:52:23 PM
Muzh makes it quite clear that he was doing this not just because it was different, but specifically because it was not a cheap way to start a conversation.


He never stated he did this because it was not cheap.


Quote
Whether guys or gals want to admit it or not, most guys try to take advantage of the economic disparities.  I've been guilty of it myself.  You want to show a girl how good you are at providing for her, and you go a little too far.  (Probably trying to overcompensate for other shortcomings, or simply because it is easier to spend some extra money than to show someone other qualities like loyalty, courage, dependability, care and affection, etc.)


You're preaching to the choir.  The majority of marriages between WM/FSUW would not take place if economic disparity did not exist.


Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 10, 2015, 02:43:00 AM
Women in Ukraine/Russia were more open to marrying foreign men using their economic leverage more than 10 years ago,practically any man who could afford the air-fare could find a wife there  ..not so much since then as desirable women can be more choosy as their lifestyle has improved.

The current hostilities in Ukraine may mean the men using economic leverage,rather than their charm and personality,to find/buy a wife will have their day again.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 10, 2015, 04:58:42 AM

I don't need to buy Champagne for a girl in a bar to distinguish myself from the average Muzh in the bar..capiche ?




Ok, let's hear how you do it.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 10, 2015, 05:09:41 AM

 For some reason, guys think they need to spend little to no money in order to make sure a woman is only interested in their sunny disposition. 


It doesn't matter if Muzh actually wanted to drink champagne.


So if Muzh wanted some champagne and invited someone to share it he is trying to be big baller.  Should he order a Schlitz and some popcorn to test the woman? 


Worst case scenario was Muzh enjoyed some champagne with some good company and that was it.  Hardly a bad thing, imo. 


I buy people drinks all the time when I am enjoying their company. Both men and women, it isn't a big deal to me.  I am more interested in having a good time instead of worrying about how much is spent.  I certainly won't be drinking cheap stuff just because some people need to drink Pabst Blue Ribbon.  :)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Noch1 on April 10, 2015, 05:10:02 AM
Divorced is often caused by stupidity:)
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 10, 2015, 09:06:07 AM
LFU,

        I already told how i do it in my very next post yesterday..same as most men i'd guess.

If you're looking for dating advise though..clearly the man of self-styled charm and charisma..Muzh...is the man to ask about that. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: fathertime on April 10, 2015, 09:14:17 AM
For some reason, guys think they need to spend little to no money in order to make sure a woman is only interested in their sunny disposition. 


It doesn't matter if Muzh actually wanted to drink champagne.


So if Muzh wanted some champagne and invited someone to share it he is trying to be big baller.  Should he order a Schlitz and some popcorn to test the woman? 

Cheap skates cut off their own snouts to spite their face.  If a man has a little coin, I see no harm in using it to help get their foot in the door and meet the ladies.  I'm pretty sure this has been the crux of mating since the prehistoric days when cavemen with big warm fires and meat attracted a sincere buxom cave woman.

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: jone on April 10, 2015, 09:15:01 AM
For some reason, guys think they need to spend little to no money in order to make sure a woman is only interested in their sunny disposition. 


It doesn't matter if Muzh actually wanted to drink champagne.


So if Muzh wanted some champagne and invited someone to share it he is trying to be big baller.  Should he order a Schlitz and some popcorn to test the woman? 


Worst case scenario was Muzh enjoyed some champagne with some good company and that was it.  Hardly a bad thing, imo. 


I buy people drinks all the time when I am enjoying their company. Both men and women, it isn't a big deal to me.  I am more interested in having a good time instead of worrying about how much is spent.  I certainly won't be drinking cheap stuff just because some people need to drink Pabst Blue Ribbon.  :)

LFU,

You are SOOOO out of touch.

Don't you know its Michelob and some tortilla chips with a little lime?  Where have you been for the past five years?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Muzh on April 10, 2015, 09:25:22 AM
Jone, that was funny!!!  ;D


I've noticed there are two kinds of men discussing the issue here.


Those who have this callous regard towards women because "all them b****s are after my money" and they should bow to my presence because I'm a man and then the the guys who sees women as companion and a fellow to trust and love.


Take a wild guess who belong to the later?
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 10, 2015, 10:11:24 AM
LFU,

You are SOOOO out of touch.

Don't you know its Michelob and some tortilla chips with a little lime?  Where have you been for the past five years?


Damn, dat dere Michelob is premium stuff in these parts.  I wouldn't want the women here getting the wrong impression.  haha
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 10, 2015, 10:17:53 AM
Cheap skates cut off their own snouts to spite their face. 




I have seen cheap people screw themselves in all kinds of situations.  Not just of the female variety.


Quote

If a man has a little coin, I see no harm in using it to help get their foot in the door and meet the ladies.  I'm pretty sure this has been the crux of mating since the prehistoric days when cavemen with big warm fires and meat attracted a sincere buxom cave woman.

Fathertime!




There seems to be a disconnect here.  To be fair, if someone was solely purchasing particular drinks  to impress someone, they would have a point.  I could agree with them. 


The part they are missing is the fact that there are guys that do enjoy eating good meals or drinking good champagne/wine.  It isn't about impressing but more about having someone join them in what they like.   


There is a big difference.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 10, 2015, 10:28:51 AM
LFU,

        I already told how i do it in my very next post yesterday..same as most men i'd guess.

If you're looking for dating advise though..clearly the man of self-styled charm and charisma..Muzh...is the man to ask about that. :rolleyes:


My bad Chelseaboy, I did miss that.   Sure, I am always open for improvement on anything and everything.


I do wonder if people even say hello these days.  I was sitting at a table with this woman I was dating.  She always got a lot of attention.  A very attractive woman, but the amount of attention was crazy.

Well, we are sitting there talking and I look over to see some guys at the next table taking pictures of her with their cameras.  I wish I could say it didn't surprise me, but it seems there is more and more of that type of stuff happening.



Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on April 10, 2015, 01:00:12 PM
Women in Ukraine/Russia were more open to marrying foreign men using their economic leverage more than 10 years ago,practically any man who could afford the air-fare could find a wife there  ..not so much since then as desirable women can be more choosy as their lifestyle has improved.

The current hostilities in Ukraine may mean the men using economic leverage,rather than their charm and personality,to find/buy a wife will have their day again.

Average GDP (purchasing power equity) based on World Bank stats in the US- $53,042, Russia - $24,114, Ukraine - $8,790 (all 2013 figures).
 
There is a reason the MOB industry dried up in Russia, and why it didn't in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: GoldGerard on July 20, 2016, 06:31:43 AM
It's quite interesting to read about the causes of divorces in international couples. From my experience, a lot of those reasons can be united under the large subheading "Failing to manage expectations".

It's absolutely essential she knows your daily routine, has seen your home on video and knows what your town (city, village) is like. But even professors of universities, who are supposed to be exceptionally smart, fail to do it, for some reason.

Check "58 questions to ask Russian, Ukrainian women when dating" (just Google it). If you do not know answers to these questions and you are as much as planning a personal meeting, you are in trouble. Find out these things before moving anywhere further.

By the way, in response to Boethius, MOB industry didn't "dry up" in Russia. It also is not flourishing in Ukraine.

PPL (pay-per-letter or "paid correspondence") which is plagued with scams is rampant in Ukraine but not in Russia - but not for the reasons of GDP differences. Simply in Russia everything people do online is being watched. No one wants to be the next guy to go to jail. In Ukraine, a different story. It's (how to say it in a politically correct way?) plenty of freedom there.

In fact, we on Elenasmodels.com (http://www.elenasmodels.com/) have more women from Russia than from Ukraine. Because in Russia they push "family values" much harder, it's the government's policy, and single women and girls are depressed if they don't have a husband and a child. Seriously - I had a person commenting on the blog about suicide groups, girls as young as 26 are depressed and want to "cut it" because they don't have a baby and are not married.

So, maybe the PPL industry is flourishing in Ukraine (it definitely seems so, judging by the number of ads on Ukrainian job portals for people to work in "dating chat").

But it's not real dating anyway, it's "paid correspondence". You are just paying to someone to talk to you. (Think phone sex, it's about the same.)
However, there are more serious Russian women seeking partners abroad (who will talk to you for free) than ever. Actually, we have 2 times more women registering daily than 2 years ago in 2014.

Maybe it's the economic crisis, maybe the accessibility (every young woman has a smartphone with Internet access and free Wi-Fi is easily available at coffee shops and shopping centres). More than 64% of women on our site are from Russia - not Ukraine.

The undisputed fact is, we have MORE women not less who want a foreign husband than before. We have more women seeking a match with a foreigner from BOTH Ukraine and Russia than 2 years ago.

So, I don't know where you get your numbers from, finding a foreign husband is definitely going mainstream in Russia. Especially because now nearly every woman knows someone who got married to a foreigner and moved abroad.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: BillyB on July 20, 2016, 08:24:09 AM
But even professors of universities, who are supposed to be exceptionally smart, fail to do it, for some reason.


Smart in physics doesn't always mean smart with women and romance. Men who spent a lot of time on reading the books usually lack social skill with the ladies.

Actually, we have 2 times more women registering daily than 2 years ago in 2014.


Report back occasionally on the trend. Some of us like to know what is going on.

finding a foreign husband is definitely going mainstream in Russia. Especially because now nearly every woman knows someone who got married to a foreigner and moved abroad.

Trends change. Although you say more women have signed up is it because your agency pursued growth or are all agencies experiencing the same spike. How about the number of men signing up at your agency? I've been on forums like this for 10 years. I've seen the number of men participating drop. Some become jaded after experiencing scams from agencies or girls and after dating gold diggers. Some men were scared off by the conflict in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: Boethius on July 20, 2016, 08:28:39 AM

It's quite interesting to read about the causes of divorces in international couples. From my experience, a lot of those reasons can be united under the large subheading "Failing to manage expectations". It's absolutely essential she knows your daily routine, has seen your home on video and knows what your town (city, village) is like. But even professors of universities, who are supposed to be exceptionally smart, fail to do it, for some reason.Check "58 questions to ask Russian, Ukrainian women when dating" (just Google it). If you do not know answers to these questions and you are as much as planning a personal meeting, you are in trouble. Find out these things before moving anywhere further.By the way, in response to Boethius, MOB industry didn't "dry up" in Russia. It also is not flourishing in Ukraine. PPL (pay-per-letter or "paid correspondence") which is plagued with scams is rampant in Ukraine but not in Russia - but not for the reasons of GDP differences. Simply in Russia everything people do online is being watched. No one wants to be the next guy to go to jail. In Ukraine, a different story. It's (how to say it in a politically correct way?) plenty of freedom there.In fact, we on Elenasmodels.com (http://www.elenasmodels.com/) have more women from Russia than from Ukraine. Because in Russia they push "family values" much harder, it's the government's policy, and single women and girls are depressed if they don't have a husband and a child. Seriously - I had a person commenting on the blog about suicide groups, girls as young as 26 are depressed and want to "cut it" because they don't have a baby and are not married.So, maybe the PPL industry is flourishing in Ukraine (it definitely seems so, judging by the number of ads on Ukrainian job portals for people to work in "dating chat"). But it's not real dating anyway, it's "paid correspondence". You are just paying to someone to talk to you. (Think phone sex, it's about the same.)However, there are more serious Russian women seeking partners abroad (who will talk to you for free) than ever. Actually, we have 2 times more women registering daily than 2 years ago in 2014. Maybe it's the economic crisis, maybe the accessibility (every young woman has a smartphone with Internet access and free Wi-Fi is easily available at coffee shops and shopping centres). More than 64% of women on our site are from Russia - not Ukraine.The undisputed fact is, we have MORE women not less who want a foreign husband than before. We have more women seeking a match with a foreigner from BOTH Ukraine and Russia than 2 years ago.So, I don't know where you get your numbers from, finding a foreign husband is definitely going mainstream in Russia. Especially because now nearly every woman knows someone who got married to a foreigner and moved abroad.

The MOB business certainly did dry up in Russia.  If it had not, there would be many agencies there. There are not.

Knowing someone's routines or whether they have a pet (one of your "essential" questions) is not going to manage expectations. Knowing the essence of the person you are with will. Unfortunately, it is impossible to really know a person until you live with him/her.
Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: MedMan on July 04, 2018, 04:58:43 AM
I saw a week ago an interesting statistic -
  50% of first marrige will end with devorse.
  Only 40% of divorced people will mary again and only 40 % will devorse second time.
  Then only 20% will try again and will devorse 30%.
So if we take 100 % people it will be like 50 m 50 d, then 12 m 8 d and then 1,6 m and 0,48 d.
50+12+1.6=63,6 % will be in marriage any way. 36.4 % will be alone afterwards.


Title: Re: Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce
Post by: BillyB on July 04, 2018, 10:20:42 AM
I saw a week ago an interesting statistic -
  50% of first marrige will end with devorse.
  Only 40% of divorced people will mary again and only 40 % will devorse second time.
  Then only 20% will try again and will devorse 30%.
So if we take 100 % people it will be like 50 m 50 d, then 12 m 8 d and then 1,6 m and 0,48 d.
50+12+1.6=63,6 % will be in marriage any way. 36.4 % will be alone afterwards.

I once read a statistic that said those who are on their second marriage will have a 70% chance of divorcing. Those who are on their 3rd marriage will have a 90% chance of divorcing.

It seems some people aren't marriage material and can't get along with anybody for an extended period of time.