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1
Davo, wife was nearby, so I read this to her.

She smiled and reminded me: "I gave up good job in capital city Kyiv with tons of friends and family.  Came here to USA.  Now maintaining very large garden and yard, helping cut down some dead trees, after husband cuts to firewood length some manual splitting, stacking firewood, hauling in firewood in winter, keeping wood burning furnace going, empty ashes, etc., etc.  All this with masters degree and finishing up PhD."

And all this to live with a guy stupid enough  to fall over the top of a 12 foot ladder reaching to cut off 'just one more' branch, breaking 9 ribs and clavicle.

Note: She really has used sledge and wedges to split some logs that were cut to firewood length.  Mostly I did that however, and then the past summer we obtained motor driven hydraulic splitter to split up and stack a couple of years worth of firewood.  This is now at her insistence as I would just as soon use the oil burner option on our dual source furnace.  Plus we have heat pump for milder winter days which she mostly refuses to use, preferring to burn small branches she has gathered up from fallen limbs.  We have a LOT of trees.

Nice to see she adopted a country lifestyle after coming from a complete different and probably more fast paced life in Ukraine. It give me hope, because I spend a time out in the country doing a lot of those things. Who ever I marry will have to enjoy both city and country life.

My mates wife struggled at first, coming from an office job in a large city to a remote property where the closest town had a population of just 14 people. My mate used to do regular trips back to the city when she got home sick. She missed the hustle and bustle of city life. Now she’s an out back girl and can’t stand being away from the animals too long. She’s hand raised lambs atm who were rejected by their mothers.
2
Dangerous times, i am friends with my ex fiance's mother, she pushed my ex fiance to cheat on her boyfriend (This was after me). She would control everything behind the scenes, instagram pics, what to post and not to post, pics of me and her together on her instagram, a lovely woman, she was good to me, and still is good to me, saved me from a lot of medical issues i had in Ukraine. Very supportive of me still, great advice, but she would do anything to further her daughters prospects, bend and break any rule. She would call my ex fiance fat, with the smallest weight gain, imagine a 183cm at 50 something kg. But the mother was strong, heartless, strong, but was an amazing mother. Sacrificed so much to bring up the family without the father around, her strength is something i admire. Things she went through, and managed to accomplish bringup up 3 children, two daughters, who are each amazing.

Tattoo master i dated, she got a ruptured ovary, due to sex. We broke up, i said i would pay , as logn as my ex finished the tattoos (also pay hourly rate). Mother tried to push her to go to the police, but my girlfriend didn't want to (ex at the time). THe mother is lovely, she also helped me more than my girlfriend, even after everything, but like i said, these women are dangerous.

They are two different people in the same body, lovely and killers. I had a fall out with the tattoo masters mother one time, after the break up, she warned me what she would do if i ever messed with her. These old women can smile and in the next second cut your legs.

Indeed, I wouldn't cross a post Soviet woman, doing so over her family is likely to be very bad news. Post Soviet women tend to be resilient as ML"s post above illustrates. As you know doubt know Soviet society was not about being weak and it had its own hard edges to it. Soviet history shows us how bad it could get yet I believe the collective/communist values still instilled a way of being of having to work together, shared virtues and a certain citizen to be, those that stepped out of line didn't fair well.

The mother who was pushing the daughter to cheat and controlling her Instagram I think is trying to do the best by her daughter. She is not acting well but her interest is not in acting well but doing the best by her daughter in the times in which they are living. Survival is a basic instinct of most and a good prospect is not to be passed over lightly. I think it's a case there of playing the game a bit little fiercely but like I said Soviet society was not about being pussies it had a hard edge when push cane to shove, when people felt they needed to act aggressively. Aside from that though I still think in terms of virtue they are more sound even if they are shrewd underneath.

Post Soviet girls are more into gameplay, at least Ukrainian girls are, possibly Russian girls also. I don't think they are as shrewd underneath as ex Soviet girls though as your example shows, it's her mother making moves for her daughter in the dating game making sure her daughter doesn't f*CK up. She wouldn't do that if she thought/knew her daughter knew her stuff, it's because her daughter although likely street wise isn't likely all that shrewd. Let's face it most young Ukrainian girls are stupid to rip a WM off for what amounts to a money off coupon. A shrewd woman would hold off and see what good a deal the guy may be. Some Ukrainian women learn that as they get older into their thirties some may not. Take the girl I was with, Kherson girl, for all she knew I might have been very wealthy or at least a way better deal than most local men, I paid for her to go on holiday with me to Cyprus and bought her nice clothes, etc. I bet you she hasn't been on holiday abroad in the three years since or necessarily likely to ever again unless she met another WM. Her social media tells me that nothing much outside of living in Kherson has happened for her since. She's not the only one though, after reading 'Odessa Dreams' a while back it appears a lot of young girls make the same mistake and get laughed at by locals who see that they passed over on the big prize of a comfortable life in the west to instead go for a quick one off fast buck with a guy or two. Kherson girl apparently lived in a concrete block apartment with her brother, his other half who she didn't get on with and their child and hated it, I don't doubt it, I think though manipulative that she was honest enough, but she passed over on me to make a quick one and is most probably still living in the same situation to this day.
3
Jap read my edit at the bottom of my post.... this is getting boring AF ... at least insult my mother or say something witty 😉

Edit...  I will say to your last comment.... I don’t need tinder like you or badoo or flex my muscles to pick up women in FSU countries. In Russia all I had to do is talk with my accent for a young woman to close her shop and take me out to lunch. At the supermarket on my own and looking lost a woman took my hand and walked me around to find what I wanted, then followed me down the street, before I told her I’m here visiting another woman. Has that happened to you???

You might think none of the women you are dating want to leave, but all of them are secretly hoping you’ll take them away from their life in Ukraine. They have far less to stay for (Adult children, careers, elderly parents, property etc..) and much more opportunities in a western country than older women do.
4
You completely missed my point about a woman who lived a comfortable life in Ivanov Russia, before moving to a property on the edge of the Nullarbor. She didn’t do it for the lifestyle or money.... google the Nullarbor and you’ll see what I’m taking about. You have to truly love someone to live there.

I dated someone in that city, living in a 8 bedroom house, her father had 3 stores in that city. She wanted the same, i had maybe £500 in my bank, no job, a business failed a month prior. At still each time i go sit with an fsuw and they ask me why ukraine, i say 'my income in fsu is considered better than the average guy'.

I am probably the only one on this on this forum that couchsurfed in Russia, and slept with his host, and had a short relationship with her. But still you lot lack the balls to admit what is the most 'attractive' you lot possess.


So again if your GF is so sure she’s not just telling you what you want to here

No she corrects me when she has a different opinion, such as i thought women with children were not wanted, she corrected me, she showed me friends who HAD BEAUTY AND A GOOD JOB, and found a guy, married, extended their family.

but the truth is in my country in my age group she’d be at the top of the dating pool. How do I know this? After my divorce I went on went on 50+ first dates and had 8 short term and casual relationships over two years.... Believe me I know what shit is.
50+ DATES????? 8 relationships and some casuals? in 2 years? That is a real big accomplishment (Sarcasm).

I call BS on the 15 friends who got divorced,

Calling BS on Faux, why would he lie? There is your problem, you selectively believe what you want to believe, that supports your fairy tale you built in your head.



You can argue as much as you want, but unless you or your GF have talked to many 40+ single Russian mothers from Rostov to Vladivostok, over 5 years on a daily basis you’re not going to change my mind.

Like i, and she said, if these women cannot find suitors because they are too undesirable, compared to the local women, then yes, But average Ukrainian/Russian woman can be compared to the Average Western women. It is just we have money that beats the local guys.

I challenge you to stay off foreign dating sites, if your balls are big enough, you can come to FSU, join a normal dating site like tinder, badoo etc, find a local woman, and see what happens when you minus the women actively looking to jump countries.
5
There is the delusion, you know better than someone living there. Keep in mind her friends range from 20's to 40's, she has nothing to sell you.

I looked past at your first jab at her , calling her a narcist telling me to run for the hills but your history doesn't give you much room to talk, luckily we have rules to protect you. You are funny one sentence you are telling Trench how to play the financial game, what UK offers to attract women, next you are talking about farm lands, $500k apartments. Truth is women you go for is what she described, shit , nobody wanted them. What is hard to comprehend? They may or may not be manipulative, but nobody wants them, so they found you, hopefully this time you can keep one long enough. Or be another of Faux's statistics , 15 friends married FSUW, all divorced. You have one divorce, want to make it a double?

Don't be mad. No need to insult my girlfriend because you don't like the expired milk nobody wants to drink.


I know of a young russian guy, lost his legs, has no job,found a beautiful girl. But i am not giving up my day job or gym pass, you can looking for little outliers, make up stories, or be a big man, admit what you are doing, and just do it. Stop sugar coating stuff.

My advice to trench was being realistic. He wants children and would like a wife who stays at home and doesn’t work. It doesn’t matter if what country she’s from he needs to at least double his income and even then his wife will probably have to go out and work once the children are in school or his family won’t have the quality of life that most middle income families have... most have 2 incomes to get by.

You completely missed my point about a woman who lived a comfortable life in Ivanov Russia, before moving to a property on the edge of the Nullarbor. She didn’t do it for the lifestyle or money.... google the Nullarbor and you’ll see what I’m taking about. You have to truly love someone to live there.

Again you missed my point about expensive apartments. Not all FSU women have lower standard of living and income then us in western countries. You’d be surprised how much many 40+ women are doing very well. All they are missing is a quality dating pool at home.

You can say what you want about the woman I’ve met, but the truth is in my country in my age group she’d be at the top of the dating pool. How do I know this? After my divorce I went on went on 50+ first dates and had 8 short term and casual relationships over two years.... Believe me I know what shit is.

I call BS on the 15 friends who got divorced, if you’re taking about “close”  friends who are living in western countries with a FSU wife and not random internet friends telling their horror stories. You know Russia keeps records of foreign marriages to their citizens (married in Russia) and the same for divorces, that aren’t publicly available. Find a Russian friend who has the right contacts and you’ll see a lower divorced rate than western marriages.

You can say what you like about my marriage, but I raised 4 children to be happy, healthy, exceed at school and 2 have moved onto uni. All the while isolating them from their mothers mental problems, alcoholism and serial cheating and double life she lead. I did it so successfully that they had absolutely no idea, until I kicked her out when she openly had an affair in front of their faces.

BTW I’ve lived and raised my children next door to a Russian couple while they raised theirs and 2 weeks ago my Daughter got engaged to a fine young man with a Russian father and Belarusian mother. Funny how their opinions align with the women I’ve chatted with and met in Russia.

You can argue as much as you want, but unless you or your GF have talked to many 40+ single Russian mothers from Rostov to Vladivostok, over 5 years on a daily basis you’re not going to change my mind. Most love their country and if it wasn’t for social and cultural issues making them basically invisible to men, they wouldn’t consider a foreign man.

So again if your GF is so sure she’s not just telling you what you want to here, I’ll happily discuss the “shit” women I’ve met, even over the phone on a group call with a Russian woman, if she’s not comfortable chatting here. She won’t because she knows I’m correct and won’t want to look foolish in front of you.

As I said to Kim a while back, if you put some humour into your insults we can have some fun back and forth banter.... Our culture is based on that. We call mates c*%ts and c*%ts mate... mate!!  😜


6
Davo is talking about 40 yes plus ex-Soviet women with a lot of life experience behind them and different times.

Dangerous times, i am friends with my ex fiance's mother, she pushed my ex fiance to cheat on her boyfriend (This was after me). She would control everything behind the scenes, instagram pics, what to post and not to post, pics of me and her together on her instagram, a lovely woman, she was good to me, and still is good to me, saved me from a lot of medical issues i had in Ukraine. Very supportive of me still, great advice, but she would do anything to further her daughters prospects, bend and break any rule. She would call my ex fiance fat, with the smallest weight gain, imagine a 183cm at 50 something kg. But the mother was strong, heartless, strong, but was an amazing mother. Sacrificed so much to bring up the family without the father around, her strength is something i admire. Things she went through, and managed to accomplish bringup up 3 children, two daughters, who are each amazing.

Tattoo master i dated, she got a ruptured ovary, due to sex. We broke up, i said i would pay , as logn as my ex finished the tattoos (also pay hourly rate). Mother tried to push her to go to the police, but my girlfriend didn't want to (ex at the time). THe mother is lovely, she also helped me more than my girlfriend, even after everything, but like i said, these women are dangerous.

They are two different people in the same body, lovely and killers. I had a fall out with the tattoo masters mother one time, after the break up, she warned me what she would do if i ever messed with her. These old women can smile and in the next second cut your legs.

7
I’d like to know how a guy who lives 15,000 km understands what’s occurring in her community better than she does.

There is the delusion, you know better than someone living there. Keep in mind her friends range from 20's to 40's, she has nothing to sell you.

I can give her a quite a few contact details of 40+ women in Russia and the numbers of two of my close friends wives, if she wants to talk to the women she’s calling manipulative herself. She won’t because she knows they will call her a silly little girl with no life experience and has never walked a mile in their shoes.... especially my mates wives. Heaven help anyone that tries to tell them they married for money, lifestyle and not love.

I looked past at your first jab at her , calling her a narcist telling me to run for the hills but your history doesn't give you much room to talk, luckily we have rules to protect you. If you continue calling her name's like silly little girl , I will rinse you for the truly pathetic specimen you are.


You are funny one sentence you are telling Trench how to play the financial game, what UK offers to attract women, next you are talking about farm lands, $500k apartments. Truth is women you go for is what she described, shit , nobody wanted them. What is hard to comprehend? They may or may not be manipulative, but nobody wants them, so they found you, hopefully this time you can keep one long enough. Or be another of Faux's statistics , 15 friends married FSUW, all divorced. You have one divorce, want to make it a double?

Don't be mad. No need to insult my girlfriend because you don't like the expired milk nobody wants to drink.


I know of a young russian guy, lost his legs, has no job,found a beautiful girl. But i am not giving up my day job or gym pass, you can looking for little outliers, make up stories, or be a big man, admit what you are doing, and just do it. Stop sugar coating stuff.
8

I go to social events regularly with them and you’ll never see two couples  more in love, even after ten years of marriage for one couple. She’s very attractive and gave up a good life and job near Moscow to become a farmers wife... drive tractors, muster sheep and cattle and live in more isolation than most Siberians.... That’s what you call love!!

Davo, wife was nearby, so I read this to her.

She smiled and reminded me: "I gave up good job in capital city Kyiv with tons of friends and family.  Came here to USA.  Now maintaining very large garden and yard, helping cut down some dead trees, after husband cuts to firewood length some manual splitting, stacking firewood, hauling in firewood in winter, keeping wood burning furnace going, empty ashes, etc., etc.  All this with masters degree and finishing up PhD."

And all this to live with a guy stupid enough  to fall over the top of a 12 foot ladder reaching to cut off 'just one more' branch, breaking 9 ribs and clavicle.

Note: She really has used sledge and wedges to split some logs that were cut to firewood length.  Mostly I did that however, and then the past summer we obtained motor driven hydraulic splitter to split up and stack a couple of years worth of firewood.  This is now at her insistence as I would just as soon use the oil burner option on our dual source furnace.  Plus we have heat pump for milder winter days which she mostly refuses to use, preferring to burn small branches she has gathered up from fallen limbs.  We have a LOT of trees.
9
I think we're talking of very different lives here. Davo is talking about 40 yrs plus ex-Soviet women with a lot of life experience behind them and different times. Japs is talking about a lot younger women post Soviet break up who have a very different mindset and have not had the number of years life experience. The two are world's apart and I don't think either you or your other halves are wrong they are just two completely different societies that we're talking about here. I'm not saying there aren't any bad women who are 40 plus Soviet girls but I think on the whole they had a very different upbringing just as poor materially as many post Soviet girls but brought up with better values in dealing with that poverty. I think ex Soviet girls look to good character to get them through hard times whereas post Soviet girls look to street savvy behaviour to get them through hard times. I think that's the real issue you two guys have here is that you're comparing milk & butter and not realising you're talking about two almost entirely different things.
10
I’d be happy to discuss this topic openly on the forum with her, in fact challenge her to. I’d like to know how a guy who lives 15,000 km understands what’s occurring in her community better than she does.

I can give her a quite a few contact details of 40+ women in Russia and the numbers of two of my close friends wives, if she wants to talk to the women she’s calling manipulative herself. She won’t because she knows they will call her a silly little girl with no life experience and has never walked a mile in their shoes.... especially my mates wives. Heaven help anyone that tries to tell them they married for money, lifestyle and not love.

I go to social events regularly with them and you’ll never see two couples  more in love, even after ten years of marriage for one couple. She’s very attractive and gave up a good life and job near Moscow to become a farmers wife... drive tractors, muster sheep and cattle and live in more isolation than most Siberians.... That’s what you call love!!
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