Russian Women Discussion

RWD News From the Front => Russian Front Discussion => Topic started by: AkMike on June 08, 2014, 09:53:43 PM

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 08, 2014, 09:53:43 PM
Bulgaria has suspended plans for the South Stream Gas line to feed the Euro pipelines because of the invasion of Crimea.

08.06.2014 | 18:35
Bulgaria's Prime Minister Plamen Orešarski ordered to suspend work on the project on construction of a gas pipeline South stream, for consultations with the European Commission.

Bulgaria's Prime Minister ordered the suspension of construction of the South Stream
Pipeline.

The South Stream pipeline is being built to supply Russian gas to southern and Central Europe, bypassing Ukraine. The European Commission believes that bilateral treaties with European countries transiting-Austria, Bulgaria, Hungary and Slovenia-which violate EU law, reported in the Sunday edition of the novinite.bg.

In early June, the EC proposed to suspend the construction of the South stream gas pipeline as long as it does not conform to the standards of the third ènergopaketa.
Read alsoThe European Commission called on Bulgaria to stop the construction of South stream

"There is a request from the European Commission, and we stop further work on the project associated with this request, and depending on consultations with Brussels, a decision will be taken," the Edition quotes the words of the Prime Minister.

Such a statement he made after meeting with a delegation of American senators, among them was Republican John McCain. U.s. Senators visited Bulgaria this weekend as part of a tour of Eastern Europe.

Previously the official representative of the EC reported that the European Commission sent Bulgaria notification of non-compliance with EU standards in the competition to choose a builder and operator of the Bulgarian section of the pipeline.
Read alsoThe European Commission insists on revising the agreement on the "South stream"

UNIAN reports, previously a member of the European Commission for energy Günther Oettinger stated that the draft of the South stream gas pipeline did not move, while Russia will not change its course on the political crisis in Ukraine.

"We will restore the talks when the Russian partner will abide by international law and is ready for constructive cooperation on the basis of our energy legislation," said Ettinger.

According to him, "with almost a civil war in the East of Ukraine and that Moscow does not recognize the Government in Kiev, we will surely not to come in our negotiations."

In April, the media reported that Bulgaria had refused the Russian gas pipeline bypassing Ukraine.

http://economics.unian.net/energetics/926657-bolgariya-priostanovila-rabotyi-po-stroitelstvu-yujnogo-potoka-smi.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 08, 2014, 09:54:26 PM
Building a deep sea pipeline is a very expensive operation. It's much cheaper to build one overland or at least in shallow coastal waters with monitor and pumping stations on nearby dry land.

 Look at the picture in the above post and see what land has been recently "acquired" by Russia. It is obvious that the invasion of Crimea didn't just happen. Stealing the off shore gas fields along with Crimea is a bonus to the thieving Russian government and their minions.

 Another option for a gas line is totally overland from South East Ukraine along the coastal area thru Odessa. But the locals screwed up that plan by kicking the Russian terrorists out.
Putler wasn't happy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 10, 2014, 11:43:18 AM
Awww shucks,, Too bad Boris! 


Russia Sees "Underhanded Sanctions" in Bulgaria's Suspension of South Stream

Bulgaria's decision to suspend construction of the Russia-led South Stream pipeline project on its territory, undermining Russia's efforts to diversify its gas transportation infrastructure to Europe away from Ukraine, is an underhanded economic sanction thrust on Russia by the West, a top Russian diplomat and Russian industry analysts said Monday.

Vladimir Chizhov, Russia's envoy to the European Union, slammed the move against the $45 billion pipeline project, which followed a visit by three U.S. senators to Bulgaria late last week, as "economic sanctions by stealth," and highlighted efforts by top European officials to link the continuation of work on the project with Russia's position on Ukraine.

"South Stream is directly related to Ukraine, because once it is completed, Ukraine will loose its status as monopoly transit country [for the Russian gas going to European consumers]," Chizhov said, Itar-Tass reported.

South Stream, which is designed to deliver 63 billion cubic meters of gas per year and from Russia's Krasnodar region across the bottom of the Black Sea to Bulgaria, Serbia and Hungary before entering Austria, has the potential to shift the balance of energy power in Eastern Europe away from Ukraine by depriving the country of its leverage as the main transit country for Russia's gas.

Last week, energy-hungry EU member state Bulgaria seemed determined to withstand pressure from Brussels and Washington, with the country's Energy Minister Dragomir Stoynev defending it as a priority infrastructure project.

But following a visit by U.S. senators John McCain, Christopher Murphy and Ron Johnson on Sunday, Bulgarian Prime Minister Plamen Oresharski said the country would halt construction work on the pipeline, in which Russia's state gas exporter Gazprom holds a 50-percent stake.

McCain, who is known for his staunch criticism of President Vladimir Putin, was quoted by The Associated Press as saying after the meeting that "obviously we want as little Russian involvement as possible."

Bulgarian authorities soon tried to row back on Sunday's announcement, with the Energy Minister Dragomir Stoynev saying on Monday that the project cannot be cancelled and that it will be completed sooner or later. Serbia ? the next leg of the pipeline ? said it will still suspend the project until the construction of Bulgaria's section is sorted out.

The project's disruption is a direct consequence of Western efforts to preserve Ukraine's leverage over Moscow as its main transportation hub for gas exports, said Sergei Pikin, director of Energy Development Fund, a Moscow-based energy consultancy and engineering firm.

"If South Stream is completed, it will make Ukraine much weaker with regard to Russia, and of course neither the U.S. nor the EU want this to happen," Pikin said in a telephone interview on Monday.

Justifying its pressure on Bulgaria, The EU claimed that the country, one of its poorest members, failed to comply with EU internal market rules on the awarding of public contracts. At the end of May, Bulgaria selected Stroytransgaz, a Russian company hit by U.S. sanctions, to construct the pipeline on its territory. Strontransgaz is controlled by Gennady Timchenko, a personal friend and ally of Putin who is subject to U.S. sanctions. Timchenko is not subject to EU sanctions.

The existing pipeline network between Russia and EU is able to carry 250 billion cubic meters of gas, while Russia's annual exports amounted only to 196 billion cubic meters in 2013 according to Mikhail Krutikhin, a partner at consultants RusEnergy. About 50 percent of Russian gas destined for Europe travels via Ukraine.

Last week, Ukraine's Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said the country's state-controlled gas company, Naftogaz, would be split into three separate businesses ? one to manage Ukraine's pipeline infrastructure, one to oversee gas transport, and another to take charge of storage. Once split, Ukraine's gas transportation system would be modernized with the help of European and U.S. investors, Yatsenyuk said.

And the main value of Ukraine's gas transportation system is that it can transport Russian gas, according to Pikin. If South Stream is completed, this value ? and Yatsenyuk's plans ? will be greatly diminished.


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/501793.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on June 10, 2014, 01:55:40 PM
Serbia in limbo:
http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_06_09/Serbia-forced-to-halt-South-Stream-gas-project-over-EUs-stance-on-Unkraine-8833/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on June 11, 2014, 01:14:57 PM

Bulgaria's decision to suspend construction of the Russia-led South Stream pipeline project on its territory, undermining Russia's efforts to diversify its gas transportation infrastructure to Europe away from Ukraine, is an underhanded economic sanction thrust on Russia by the West, a top Russian diplomat and Russian industry analysts said Monday.

Vladimir Chizhov, Russia's envoy to the European Union, slammed the move against the $45 billion pipeline project, which followed a visit by three U.S. senators to Bulgaria late last week, as "economic sanctions by stealth," and highlighted efforts by top European officials to link the continuation of work on the project with Russia's position on Ukraine.






(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/clmontes/cringe_zps3a342d45.gif)




Wah, Wah, Wah




LMFAO


Russia is still, and will stay a second world economy.


Lesson for Putin, when you invade a country, you invade a country with everything you got.


Take Iraq, for example.


I bet Bulgaria would never do this to the Gringos.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on September 29, 2014, 06:19:48 PM
If you think Russia doesn't deserve to be invaded, try being a kid and going to play at these playgrounds:

http://medium.com/vse-ploho/silent-hill-148b213311a0
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JohnDearGreen on September 29, 2014, 07:17:04 PM
A few potholes to dodge on your cruise thru new russia.
http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/events/3425274-obval-dorohy-pod-symferopolem-staly-yzvestny-detaly-avaryy#1

(http://kor.ill.in.ua/m/610x0/1511330.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 02, 2014, 07:36:40 PM
Jihad within Russia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl-lH9aI3-s
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 07, 2014, 11:26:56 PM
New low for the Russian Ruble.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 08, 2014, 12:16:10 AM
The pot is slowly coming to the boil.The sanctions need to be really ramped up now-- become extremely restrictive and focus on everything and anyone Russian anywhere.It also ought to apply to previous Russian citizens that have already fled-- those whose wealth was or is being gained in Russia.The pressure being applied is already causing a rethink in Russia from somewhat needs to be a tidal wave.
As we have all seen on the forum -- a few closed minds that are incapable of thinking Thur a series of actions and the net result( which is obvious enough to 97% of people) can cause a lot of noise-- in Russia that large majority need to make themselves heard. That will encourage those that are in the position to have the means to change Russia's direction can be encouraged  to get it done.
Every bit of time that Ukraine can buy now is crucial-not only militarily but politically  outside of Ukraine.
Putin needs a major military victory in Ukraine to be able to maintain the credibility of his campaign-look for a much escalated attack very soon.
For those pro-Rus posters who have shown zero empathy for Ukrainians plight and so little understanding of what a huge risk for Russia that Putin has taken  -- keep watching--the chickens will come home to roost-- for Ukraine!
Me-- not only would I reclaim every millimetre of Ukrainian soil--I would lay claim to the historic areas of the Kievan-Rus empire !!
Also on my agenda would be monetary compensation to Ukraine-to every business  that has lost money as a result of Putins stupidity.
For those who have posted on Russian cash reserves-- how do you think they will look after paying compensation to Ukraine?


Putin Clans Said Gridlocked Over Arrest as Sanctions Bite - Bloomberg
Russia’s wheels of power are grinding to a halt.


That's the assessment of five officials close to President Vladimir Putin, who say that a struggle at the heart of his inner circle is slowing decision making as sanctions squeeze the economy. With Putin focused on foreign policy, rival factions are battling for influence, said the people, who declined to be identified discussing internal issues, Censor.NET reports, citing Bloomberg.

Read also: German Envoy Warns Russia about New Possible Sanctions
One group, centered on Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, is concerned about Russia's increasing alienation from the global financial system, said the officials. The other, which includes heads of state companies such as Igor Sechin of OAO Rosneft (ROSN) and veterans of the security services, favors greater state control over the economy, they said.
Russia's ruling elite is convulsing as the economy careens toward recession, the ruble hovers near a record low and the conflict in Ukraine pushes the country deeper into a standoff with the U.S and its allies. With oil, Russia's largest export, at a 27-month low and banks increasingly turning to the state for funding, there's less money to go around.
"The long-running conflict between rival pro-Putin camps has elevated to war," said Stanislav Belkovsky, a Kremlin adviser during Putin's first term who heads Moscow's Institute for National Strategy. "The elite are fighting for a shrinking pool of assets."
Read also: Putin Leads State Campaign to Close the Russian Mind - The Washington Post
Heightening the feud between the rival groups is the arrest of billionaire Vladimir Evtushenkov and the legal campaign by prosecutors to nationalize his oil company, OAO Bashneft (BANE), according to the officials.
Evtushenkov, confined to his Moscow mansion since Sept. 16 on allegations of money laundering, is closely aligned with Medvedev and his allies, according to the people. They are at odds with the "siloviki," a group of powerful policymakers that includes men like Putin's chief of staff, Sergei Ivanov, who share a security service background and have worked with the president for decades.
Read also: Russian Rouble Hits New All-Time Low at Over 40 Roubles for Dollar
Evtushenkov's legal troubles show how damaging the conflict within the power structure can be for the losing side, said Olga Kryshtanovskaya, a sociologist studying the country's elite at the Russian Academy of Sciences. His fortune has tumbled more than 70 percent since the start of the year to $2.9 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.
"State corporations are on the offensive against private business," Kryshtanovskaya said. "There is a deficit of resources. They need resources and Putin needs loyalty and controllability."
Officials, already divided over Ukraine, are now keeping their heads down, waiting to see how the case against Evtushenkov plays out and who might be next, the people said.
Read also: Khodorkovsky: "It Is Not Just Putin that Needs to Be Replaced. The Entire System Needs to Be Changed." Source: http://en.censor.net.ua/n305800
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 08, 2014, 04:44:09 AM
In ancient times, you can leave the conquered territory as it was, move your capital to the conquered territory or destroy it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 08, 2014, 04:13:41 PM
Is Putin in charge anymore?

Medvedev Admits That Sanctions Do Impact Russian Economy: "The Situation Is Very Complicated"

http://en.censor.net.ua/news/304052/medvedev_admits_that_sanctions_do_impact_russian_economy_the_situation_is_very_complicated

When a Russian says it's complicated, it is a 300% cop out
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Isthmus on October 08, 2014, 06:44:16 PM
Some serious storm clouds brewing on the economics front for Russia according to this article.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/business/world/a/25205564/battered-russian-economy-faces-more-pain-over-ukraine-imf/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 08, 2014, 06:51:41 PM
Putin can't accept that the Soviet Union is gone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDvuQ5PgagI

We have had it up to here with the Soviet Union.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 08, 2014, 07:52:55 PM
New low for the Russian Ruble.

2 Billiion USD$  spent yesterday by Russia attempting to stem the collapse and prop up the "rubble" :)


How are all those ridiculous justify anything russian no thinkers doing now> ? Russia has less GDP than Italy and has largely one dimensional economy -- not exactly a prescription for the longevity of prosperity.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 08, 2014, 08:50:26 PM
when Bill Browder comes back to Russia, it will be safe to invest in Russia again.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 10, 2014, 01:06:39 AM
Just for fun.. :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 10, 2014, 01:07:57 AM
The head of Russia's largest bank, Sberbank, Herman Gref, himself a former economy minister, warned that Russia could end up collapsing like the Soviet Union.
By Max Delany | AFP

Some senior Russian officials have sounded increasingly dire warnings over the country's perilous economic situation but President Vladimir Putin has shown little sign of relenting over Ukraine in a bid to ease the economic woe.
Economy Minister Alexei Ulyukayev last week warned that the combination of high inflation and feeble growth created an "explosive situation."

Russia's already battered economy will struggle to recover from the fallout of the crisis in Ukraine as uncertainty looks set to drag down growth around the former Soviet Union, the IMF warned on Oct. 7.






http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/battered-russian-economy-faces-more-144642869.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 10, 2014, 01:08:43 AM
More thoughts along these lines...

Putin Seeks Solitude Amid Russia's Perfect Storm
Geopolitical Diary
Tuesday, October 7, 2014 - 19:15

Russian President Vladimir Putin celebrated his 62nd birthday Tuesday in a peculiar fashion: by himself in the Siberian forests. For the past few days, Putin's spokesman, Dmitri Peskov, has brushed off journalists' questions about why the president decided not to celebrate his birthday in Moscow or do other work as he has in previous years. This is just another odd piece to an increasingly complex puzzle surrounding the stability and future of the Russian president and his government.
Current Instabilities

Russia is in the eye of the perfect storm. Though the crisis with Ukraine has been reduced to a simmer, Russia has seen a strategic reversal in its critical borderland. In addition, the crisis moved the West to enact sanctions on Russia and loosen many financial and economic ties to the country. Now the Kremlin is in the midst of an economic crisis that is every bit as serious as the Ukraine situation. In the past two days, Russia's central bank used $1.6 billion of its currency reserves to shore up the Russian ruble. Since the start of 2014, the central bank has injected $51 billion in currency reserves to keep the currency stable. The Russian economy is projecting flat growth for 2014, while foreign investment into Russia has fallen by 50 percent. The Kremlin may have $630 billion in its reserves, but these funds are being used quickly in an attempt to fill the cracks.

Concerns over Russia's financial stability have erupted into public battles between the various Kremlin factions. On Tuesday, Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov, a key figure in the liberal economic clans, publicly called on Putin to cut Russia's ambitious defense spending program. Russia is set to start a 10-year, $770 billion defense rearmament program in 2015. Siluanov reportedly rejected the plan during recent budget drafts in September, prompting Putin to move decision-making on defense spending under his office and away from the Cabinet.

What is a Geopolitical Diary? George Friedman Explains.

While Siluanov's argument against defense spending is financial, Putin also has to consider the security and political ramifications of such a decision. Russia's continued struggles in its borderlands will require a robust military. Moreover, Putin is using the defense budget to appease Russia's various security and defense circles.
The Rise and Fall of Russian Leaders

Though Putin has ruled Russia for 15 years in a centralized and autocratic fashion, like any other leader he must balance various factions within the country. His ability to manipulate the various political clans is what brought him to power. The lack of that ability is what caused the downfall of Boris Yeltsin in the 1990s, and many leaders before him. Yeltsin was unable to manage the competition between his own loyalists, the more liberal circles of economists and the security and defense circles. Yeltsin wildly shifted policies in order to retain a grip on power, such as his economic shock policies and the restructuring of the Federal Security Services. Such erratic moves contributed to the Russian economic crash, the breakdown of the security services and the erosion of Russia's military as it fought a savage war in the North Caucasus.

Yeltsin's stumbling enabled Putin's rise to power. Putin understood that a Russian leader could rule only as long as he could balance the competing groups. Putin is a former KGB agent, tying him into the security circles, while his knowledge of Russia's need for Western technologies gives him an understanding of the more liberal economists. In his first years in power, Putin divided Russia's assets and tools of power between the clans, keeping them in constant competition and positioning himself as the ultimate arbitrator.

The problem now is that the clan system has begun to crumble. The security circles are being blamed for failures in Ukraine, while the liberal economic circles are being blamed for the sour economy. Many personalities and groups are putting their own positions (and financial revenues) before the betterment of the state. Putin continues to try to maintain balance, as seen in the recent weeks of budget debates between the liberals and security circles. But Putin's 15 years of success at balancing the clans came during times of rebuilding and resurging for Russia. Now, Putin is attempting to find balance from a position of weakness.

Putin's grasp on power is not easy to gauge from outside the Kremlin. The decision for new leadership is made within the Kremlin walls, not among the people. Previous Russian leaders, from Nikita Khrushchev to Leonid Brezhnev to Yeltsin, were removed or pushed aside by the ones closest to them. Thus, it seems fitting that the current Russian leader chose to celebrate his birthday far from the Kremlin and its clans.

http://www.stratfor.com/geopolitical-diary/putin-seeks-solitude-amid-russias-perfect-storm#axzz3FinYOY85
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 10, 2014, 04:35:17 AM
Putin can't accept that the Soviet Union is gone.
   
She is lying and she knows it.
Russia is not interested in Ukrainian conflict.
All these sanctions were very well predictable.
Destabilization of Ukraine benefits somebody else. We know who this "else" is.
This video is a pure staged 300% BS.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 10, 2014, 04:43:48 AM
Quote
Thus, it seems fitting that the current Russian leader chose to celebrate his birthday far from the Kremlin and its clans.

I don't that this is the reason. Putin is not the person to celebrate his birthday officially. He has always been this way.
(http://storage1.censor.net.ua/images/9/e/0/f/9e0f8459e4435796154a4a9db2359afb/640x427.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 10, 2014, 04:47:03 AM
(http://pravda-team.ru/yoki/image/photo/7/1/8/24718.jpeg)(http://www.nexplorer.ru/load/Image/0713/putin_bio_2_600.jpg)(http://daypic.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/1189-700x350.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 10, 2014, 04:51:56 AM
We made such pictures in Hollywood.  Its called make believe Doll.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 10, 2014, 04:54:12 AM
We made such pictures in Hollywood.  Its called make believe Doll.
Who "we"?
The pics are taken from official mass media.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 10, 2014, 02:01:49 PM
Although not along the lines of economic sanctions, geopolitical strategies or military tactics I consider this opinion piece describing the pre occupation by many Russian people idolizing Mr. Putin as more bad news for Russia as well.

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2014/10/07/what-do-you-get-for-the-czar-who-has-everything/

Aptly described as being "hysterical sycophancy", whatever you want to call it, it's not healthy for a society/culture to enable or cater to such bizarre displays of adoration for one's political leader...

 [from the article] Some of the dedications/proposals made to celebrate Putin's Birthday...

Oct 7th (Putin's Birthday) be celebrated as "Polite People's Day." 'Polite people' is the terminology Russian media uses to describe unmarked Russian soldiers sent in to disrupt areas before annexation/invasion. More commonly referred to as 'little green men' in western media.

http://lenta.ru/news/2014/09/12/politepeople/

Giant books outlining his achievements.

http://www.pravda.ru/news/interesting_news/07-10-2014/1229961-putin-0/

An Art Exhibit depicting Putin as the mythical Hercules defeating/overcoming various perceived foreign foes or challenges.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29513589

My thoughts on it are dictator's are predisposed to believing their own propaganda. If history has shown us anything - populations creating/enabling an ultra nationalistic cultist type leader to lead their country doesn't usually end well for said country.

Brass





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 10, 2014, 04:38:49 PM
400% agree
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 10, 2014, 04:54:27 PM
Lord, just for you- more "Hollywood" pics
Enjoy.
(http://en.ria.ru/images/17642/00/176420022.jpg)
(http://www.rrr.org.au/assets/vladimir-putin-and-sports02_cropped_230x250.jpg)
(http://eng.putin.kremlin.ru/static/img/putin/interests/3.png)
(http://eng.putin.kremlin.ru/static/img/putin/interests/14.png)
All made up by Doll.
 :P
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 10, 2014, 05:08:50 PM
Quote
I would lay claim to the historic areas of the Kievan-Rus empire !!

 :applaud: :flowers:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 10, 2014, 08:13:49 PM
Lord, just for you- more "Hollywood" pics
Enjoy.
(http://en.ria.ru/images/17642/00/176420022.jpg)
(http://www.rrr.org.au/assets/vladimir-putin-and-sports02_cropped_230x250.jpg)
(http://eng.putin.kremlin.ru/static/img/putin/interests/3.png)
(http://eng.putin.kremlin.ru/static/img/putin/interests/14.png)
All made up by Doll.
 :P

33% homo
100% Putin la la la
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 11, 2014, 04:06:57 AM
The thing is that the image a leader sets will also be the image people hold for the men in their country.
MrsShadow is nagging me to do more sports. Had I married an American woman she would have nagged me to talk more.  ;D
As for the Dutch, it shows a man can do well without a wife....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 11, 2014, 06:58:27 AM
Quote
33% homo
100% Putin
    I agree with this. You, Americans, will NEVER understand Russian mentality. So this 33% is accurate. As well as 100%.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 11, 2014, 07:11:43 AM
Don't forget that Brokeback Mountain photo of Putin riding a horse shirtless!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 11, 2014, 07:15:31 AM
Don't forget that Brokeback Mountain photo of Putin riding a horse shirtless!
I didn't post it so that Lord sleeps well :D
(http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/World/2009/080509_putin12_slideshow_604x500.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 11, 2014, 07:57:22 AM
33% homo
100% Putin la la la

Someone edited my post.  I did not write Putin but Putin.  Probably the same SOB who took offense to something I wrote but when I asked what I wrote that was so offensive, he/she clammed up like a frog's ass.  Strange people . . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 11, 2014, 08:41:05 AM
Someone edited my post.  I did not write Putin but Putin.  Probably the same SOB who took offense to something I wrote but when I asked what I wrote that was so offensive, he/she clammed up like a frog's ass.  Strange people . . . .
This OSB is moderator. :D
And yes- I reported many time on offensive language. Not only I.
Offensive language is against this board rules.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 11, 2014, 08:44:39 AM
I'll explain- you guys dont' speak Russian so you can't understand the meaning or connotation of Russian words.
What Shirtlitz posts is absolutely unacceptable and you, like monkeys, just repeated after him.
It is not freeom of speech- it is misbehavior against board rules.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 11, 2014, 09:08:46 AM


Just like Putin's high heel shoes
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 11, 2014, 09:37:31 AM
For us non-Russian speakers, Doll please tell us which phrase that Shirtlitz used you are referring to and what is the translation of it that made it so offensive that it needs to be banned. It's not like children is going to read this board and learn some new swear words as a result!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 11, 2014, 11:51:03 AM
huilo.  Vulgar, but in Ukraine, not the terrible, horrible word Doll suggests it is.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 11, 2014, 11:57:30 AM
I'll explain- you guys dont' speak Russian so you can't understand the meaning or connotation of Russian words.
What Shirtlitz posts is absolutely unacceptable and you, like monkeys, just repeated after him.
It is not freeom of speech- it is misbehavior against board rules.

It might be "misbehavior" but since there are approximately 47 Million people living in Ukraine and since most of them don't like the "misbehavior" of their evil neighbor to the East;  too bad.  Take it up with them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 11, 2014, 12:15:40 PM
Now I understand...

When I google up the word "huilo" this is the very first result of the search: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin_khuilo!

So it appears Shirtlitz isn't the only person in the world using that phrase!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 11, 2014, 03:09:42 PM
I'll explain- you guys dont' speak Russian so you can't understand the meaning or connotation of Russian words.
What Shirtlitz posts is absolutely unacceptable and you, like monkeys, just repeated after him.
It is not freeom of speech- it is misbehavior against board rules.

I now understand.  It's ok for you to call the rest of us monkeys, but not OK for us to call Putin a khuilo!

You remind me of the lone classmate that always goes to the teacher to report on someone else.  A snitch!
Did you also report on your neighbors when you were in Russia?



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 11, 2014, 03:45:03 PM
Is Doll a moderator?  Because that would explain who and why posts are being edited.  Did she also moderate Stirlitz?  Typical Commie modus operandi, lose a debate - censor!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 11, 2014, 04:10:01 PM
huilo.  Vulgar, but in Ukraine, not the terrible, horrible word Doll suggests it is.

The use is widespread all over Ukraine. Even the most polite  will use it in reference to the lunatic megalomaniac Putin.  The description is available on all sorts of paraphernalia eg t-shirts,caps,car stickers,badges,flags etc.It is also used extensively in popular song  by very popular performer. I saw him live several times at large open air performances where the WHOLE crowd sang along with every word!! ;D

What strikes me here is the amount of forum space wasted by pro-Putin promoters who still cant get that it is not Russia as such that criticism is aimed at but the leadership policies and actions in relation to Ukraine. How about some time being spent by those people showing some empathy for the deaths of Ukrainians as a result of Russian actions-- and no time being spent being so ridiculous as to spend time feeling insulted over a few words aimed at a complete and utter disgusting dickhead in Putin?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 11, 2014, 06:06:06 PM
The use is widespread all over Ukraine. Even the most polite  will use it in reference to the lunatic megalomaniac Putin.  The description is available on all sorts of paraphernalia eg t-shirts,caps,car stickers,badges,flags etc.It is also used extensively in popular song  by very popular performer. I saw him live several times at large open air performances where the WHOLE crowd sang along with every word!! ;D

What strikes me here is the amount of forum space wasted by pro-Putin promoters who still cant get that it is not Russia as such that criticism is aimed at but the leadership policies and actions in relation to Ukraine.

I only count 4 (Doll, fathertime, GQblues and Shadow) and their contribution to this forum is very important.  Although their position can be annoying (and obviously wrong :P) it's important that both sides of the story are allowed to be told -- it's important that there is freedom of speech.  Without it we would be just like Russian State TV -- only promoting one version of events.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 11, 2014, 07:10:25 PM
For us non-Russian speakers, Doll please tell us which phrase that Shirtlitz used you are referring to and what is the translation of it that made it so offensive that it needs to be banned. It's not like children is going to read this board and learn some new swear words as a result!
There is some CONNOTAION that can only be understood by Russian language speakers.
I only can say it is unacceptable.
It is not about Putin or who ever- it is about the one who uses this language.
You need to be Russian to understand what I am talking about.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 11, 2014, 07:19:59 PM
I only count 4 (Doll, fathertime, GQblues and Shadow) and their contribution to this forum is very important.  Although their position can be annoying (and obviously wrong :P) it's important that both sides of the story are allowed to be told -- it's important that there is freedom of speech.  Without it we would be just like Russian State TV -- only promoting one version of events.

AC -there are more. It is more about the total lack of acceptance of the bleeding blind obvious-- and trying to tell us all that black is white.Being obtuse for the sake of it is what irks me.
Amongst their ranks are heavily disaffected failures,guy who believe 911 never happened, a guy who thinks the moon landing was staged,guys who persist in posting when clearly drunk or drug affected,plus more ideas generally attributed to the looney fringe-- and on the other hand-- we have people here directly affected by the Russian invasions,people with family & friends directly involved .Seeing the few insult and deride  those people is simply disgusting--it shows zero human empathy and mirrors Huilo's behaviour.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 11, 2014, 07:29:15 PM
I only count 4 (Doll, fathertime, GQblues and Shadow) and their contribution to this forum is very important.  Although their position can be annoying (and obviously wrong :P) it's important that both sides of the story are allowed to be told -- it's important that there is freedom of speech.  Without it we would be just like Russian State TV -- only promoting one version of events.

Don't forget Belvis, Manny, Steveboy and LivefromUkraine.  Only GQB engages in these unfunny character assassination narratives explicitly verboten in the TOS.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on October 11, 2014, 07:29:58 PM
I only can say it is unacceptable.



You are against war but you defend a man who started one. Don't feel sorry that people are calling Putin names. The sitting American president is always the most picked on person on the planet.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 11, 2014, 09:37:25 PM
There is some CONNOTAION that can only be understood by Russian language speakers.
I only can say it is unacceptable.
It is not about Putin or who ever- it is about the one who uses this language.
You need to be Russian to understand what I am talking about.

In that case I will take the word of Stirlitz and MILLIONS of other Ukrainians who speak Russian and who emphatically say that Putin is a khuilo.  Now get over it.   :deadhorse:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/06/16/khuilo-the-offensive-term-that-has-attached-itself-to-putin
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 11, 2014, 09:41:56 PM
In that case I will take the word of Stirlitz and MILLIONS of other Ukrainians who speak Russian and who emphatically say that Putin is a khuilo.  Now get over it.   :deadhorse:


+111111     :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 11, 2014, 10:25:27 PM
Maybe during the upcoming G20 meeting in Brisbane, there will be TV footage of protestors holding "Putin Khuilo!" banners.

Now that's one way to introduce a new phrase into the Aussie vocabulary!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 11, 2014, 10:41:29 PM
Congrats [removed] The ruble continues to plunge downward.

"The ruble broke through the Central Bank's new boundaries straight after trading began, later hitting a low of 45.26 against the basket."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/508753.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/508753.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 11, 2014, 11:23:40 PM
Russia to turn to crocodile meat to counter their own self-imposed food embargo...
http://www.inquisitr.com/1534137/russia-embargo-pork-beef-food-prices-crocodiles/

Maybe macho man Putin will put out a video of himself catching, skinning and then BBQ'ing one of those crocs for lunch!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 11, 2014, 11:39:36 PM
If they're anything like `gator meat it'll be tasty but very $pendy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 12, 2014, 12:40:12 AM
Congrats [removed] The ruble continues to plunge downward.

"The ruble broke through the Central Bank's new boundaries straight after trading began, later hitting a low of 45.26 against the basket."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/508753.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/508753.html)


 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 12, 2014, 01:03:05 AM
Maybe during the upcoming G20 meeting in Brisbane, there will be TV footage of protestors holding "Putin Khuilo!" banners.

Now that's one way to introduce a new phrase into the Aussie vocabulary!


Let's hope some Ukrainians living in Australia do that and more!   :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 01:34:45 AM
Is Formula 1 still going to happen in Sochi?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 12, 2014, 01:41:37 AM
Russia to turn to crocodile meat to counter their own self-imposed food embargo...
http://www.inquisitr.com/1534137/russia-embargo-pork-beef-food-prices-crocodiles/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/1534137/russia-embargo-pork-beef-food-prices-crocodiles/)

Maybe macho man Putin will put out a video of himself catching, skinning and then BBQ'ing one of those crocs for lunch!

Didn't an Australian croc eat a Russian tourist recently? Maybe starve a big salty for a while to let [removed] show us how brave he is !! :devilish:

ADDED LATER :   Looks like he is coming ( ABC news 2 minutes ago)  -- maybe we can get GQ to tell him big salties  are tame !!  OR FT to tell him it will be a win/win situation !!  (( ie  win for the hungry croc and and a win for the world!!) ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 12, 2014, 01:42:20 AM
Is Formula 1 still going to happen in Sochi?


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2226956-formula-1s-latest-rumours-and-talk-paddock-news-from-2014-russian-grand-prix
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Mod3 on October 12, 2014, 04:07:04 AM
I now understand.  It's ok for you to call the rest of us monkeys, but not OK for us to call Putin a khuilo!

You remind me of the lone classmate that always goes to the teacher to report on someone else.  A snitch!
Did you also report on your neighbors when you were in Russia?
there is a difference. You can say Putin is a hkhuilo. You are not allowed to use the word khuilo alone to refer to him.
That will be edited and on continuation punished.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on October 12, 2014, 07:50:10 AM
(Reuters) - ''Vulgar chants about Vladimir Putin before he arrived for a regional summit in Belarus (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-29567246) did not augur well for the Russian president's hopes of bringing the leaders of former Soviet republics closer together''
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/10/us-ukraine-crisis-cis-idUSKCN0HZ1JD20141010 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/10/us-ukraine-crisis-cis-idUSKCN0HZ1JD20141010)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 11:15:37 AM
Congrats [removed] The ruble continues to plunge downward.

"
What- Americans are showing their real face?
You are happy about other people hardships.
Nice!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 12, 2014, 11:39:28 AM
What- Americans are showing their real face?
You are happy about other people self inflicted hardships.
Nice!

Fixed it for you...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 11:54:46 AM
Look- you may be mad at politics, but you are happy about people's hardships.
Again- it is now American real face and I suspest that it's always been this.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 11:57:58 AM
Look- you may be mad at politics, but you are happy about people's hardships.
Again- it is now American real face and I suspest that it's always been this.
Sleepycat is not American, he is from a much less developed country.  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 12:12:12 PM
Didn't an Australian croc eat a Russian tourist recently? Maybe starve a big salty for a while to let [removed] show us how brave he is !! :devilish:

ADDED LATER :   Looks like he is coming ( ABC news 2 minutes ago)  -- maybe we can get GQ to tell him big salties  are tame !!  OR FT to tell him it will be a win/win situation !!  (( ie  win for the hungry croc and and a win for the world!!) ;D

Watch your words comrade.  This is not the West where you can express yourself freely. [Removed] is listening.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 12, 2014, 12:14:46 PM
Look- you may be mad at politics, but you are happy about people's hardships.
Again- it is now American real face and I suspest that it's always been this.

Be careful Doll you're deviating from the official party line that the Russian people are experiencing "hardships" at all. ;)

As to your real face comment-Keep in mind it's not just the U.S. that's effecting the Russian economy, it's global economics and every country that's imposed sanctions or is otherwise involved in curtailing Russian aggression.

I do not subscribe to the line that it's Putin we (the west) are fighting. I believe the Russian people must also take responsibility for their country's/ government's actions. So, if the Russian people are feeling the pinch - good. Maybe they'll do something about it, let their displeasure be known, urge their leaders to amend their ways and return to the global fraternity of responsible nations.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 12, 2014, 12:18:26 PM
What- Americans are showing their real face?
You are happy about other people hardships.
Nice!

Of course.  When fighting an enemy, sanctions are the least painful compared with the alternatives.  The only way to hold a corrupt, agressive dictator responsible is for him be overthrown or replaced by elections.  That can normally only come from within.

Once the Russian people discover that they have been mislead by propaganda, they may replace Putin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 12, 2014, 12:20:11 PM
Sleepycat is not American, he is from a much less developed country.  :D

But certainly more developed than Russia in it's present state.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 12:25:39 PM
But certainly more developed than Russia in it's present state.
In one year the development went down?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 12:30:59 PM
Of course.  When fighting an enemy, sanctions are the least painful compared with the alternatives.  The only way to hold a corrupt, agressive dictator responsible is for him be overthrown or replaced by elections.  That can normally only come from within.

Once the Russian people discover that they have been mislead by propaganda, they may replace Putin.

Are you advocating regime change?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 12:44:28 PM
Be careful Doll you're deviating from the official party line that the Russian people are experiencing "hardships" at all. ;)

 .

 
Actually- not yet. I know it for sure from my older son and my ex (South of Russia and Crimea).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on October 12, 2014, 12:46:20 PM
-Keep in mind it's not just the U.S. that's effecting the Russian economy, it's global economics and every country that's imposed sanctions or is otherwise involved in curtailing Russian aggression.



Besides countries imposing sanctions, private business leaders outside of Russia are hesitant to invest their money in Russia. Business leaders inside Russia are trying to get their money out of Russia. It's not America's fault that is happening. It's Putin's fault. He's providing instability inside and outside of his country. This is the reputation Putin has earned. Anybody who has money and is smart knows Russia is not a good place to invest money right now. Conquest and stealing other people's riches can make up for what Russia is lacking. After the cold winter passes by, we'll see if Putin decides to pull a Hitler.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 12:50:07 PM

Besides countries imposing sanctions, private business leaders outside of Russia are hesitant to invest their money in Russia. Business leaders inside Russia are trying to get their money out of Russia. It's not America's fault that is happening. It's Putin's fault. He's providing instability inside and outside of his country. This is the reputation Putin has earned. Anybody who has money and is smart knows Russia is not a good place to invest money right now. Conquest and stealing other people's riches can make up for what Russia is lacking. After the cold winter passes by, we'll see if Putin decides to pull a Hitler.
Billy, same happened in Russia in 1998. Russia recovered and it WILL recover now.
Russians are survivers by nature. It is in our blood.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 12:54:03 PM
Billy, same happened in Russia in 1998. Russia recovered and it WILL recover now.
Russians are survivers by nature. It is in our blood.

Bullies and thugs are in that nature as well.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on October 12, 2014, 12:56:21 PM
Billy, same happened in Russia in 1998. Russia recovered and it WILL recover now.
Russians are survivers by nature. It is in our blood.


It's hard to hold a big nation like Russia down. Russia will recover when this blows over but why does Russia have to recover from something that didn't need to happen? Are Russians so willing to suffer at the hand of Putin's policies? Russian people can do much better with the right man in charge.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 01:00:12 PM
Among the wife hunters they say:

You reap what you sow.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 01:06:13 PM

It's hard to hold a big nation like Russia down. Russia will recover when this blows over but why does Russia have to recover from something that didn't need to happen? Are Russians so willing to suffer at the hand of Putin's policies? Russian people can do much better with the right man in charge.
This situation is happening because of USA and EU sanctions. You think that Russians will response like "hands up"?
Never. Read the history of Russia. It bever happened , it will never happen. Trust me.
The more pressure on Russians, the more stubborn they are.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 01:11:57 PM
How heartless can you be?

How many men and women in your own country have suffered because of your President?  You may have no memory if Sergey Magnitsky or Anna Politskaya, but us normal people do.  Maybe it will take a war to destroy Russia - the cradle of all bad ideas, Russia - the graveyard, but justice is coming.  Shame on you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 01:15:50 PM
How heartless can you be?

How many men and women in your own country have suffered because of your President?   
None that I personally know.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 01:17:14 PM

Besides countries imposing sanctions, private business leaders outside of Russia are hesitant to invest their money in Russia. Business leaders inside Russia are trying to get their money out of Russia. It's not America's fault that is happening. It's Putin's fault. He's providing instability inside and outside of his country. This is the reputation Putin has earned. Anybody who has money and is smart knows Russia is not a good place to invest money right now. Conquest and stealing other people's riches can make up for what Russia is lacking. After the cold winter passes by, we'll see if Putin decides to pull a Hitler.
Have Russians ever waited until the winter was over?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 12, 2014, 01:27:42 PM
Have Russians ever waited until the winter was over?

You have a point there.   ;D
If I recall correctly, had it not been for a bad winter, Germany many have overrun Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 01:32:54 PM
You have a point there.   ;D
If I recall correctly, had it not been for a bad winter, Germany many have overrun Russia.
Just so you know- winter is ALWAYS cold in Russia. Be careful. :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 01:43:42 PM
You have a point there.   ;D
If I recall correctly, had it not been for a bad winter, Germany many have overrun Russia.
France, Sweden and Poland believe the same. A hungry bear in winter is at its most dangerous.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gylden on October 12, 2014, 01:47:19 PM
Uh......don't bears sleep in the winter??
 :P
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on October 12, 2014, 01:48:15 PM
France, Sweden and Poland believe the same. A hungry bear in winter is at its most dangerous.


Run, Forest, Run.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 01:54:08 PM
Uh......don't bears sleep in the winter??
 :P
They should... but if they do not they get extremely nasty.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on October 12, 2014, 01:55:54 PM
This situation is happening because of USA and EU sanctions. You think that Russians will response like "hands up"?
Never. Read the history of Russia. It bever happened , it will never happen. Trust me.
The more pressure on Russians, the more stubborn they are.

Ironically, the pressure on ordinary Russians comes from within.

Russia is about to enact the law that will allow to seize foreign-owned assets in the state to compensate super-rich Russians affected by sanctions, at the expense of ordinary people.
http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-law-proposes-foreign-asset-seizures-compensate-those-affected-ukraine-sanctions-1701892 (http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-law-proposes-foreign-asset-seizures-compensate-those-affected-ukraine-sanctions-1701892)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on October 12, 2014, 01:57:48 PM
Ironically, the pressure on ordinary Russians comes from within.

Russia is about to enact the law that will allow to seize foreign-owned assets in the state to compensate super-rich Russians affected by sanctions, at the expense of ordinary people.
http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-law-proposes-foreign-asset-seizures-compensate-those-affected-ukraine-sanctions-1701892 (http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-law-proposes-foreign-asset-seizures-compensate-those-affected-ukraine-sanctions-1701892)


Nice. no sympathy here.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 01:57:58 PM
France, Sweden and Poland believe the same. A hungry bear in winter is at its most dangerous.
Correct
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 02:00:05 PM

Nice. no sympathy here.

I agree with the godless Puerto Rican.  The only Russians I care about are the ones holding signs EDIT
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 02:01:07 PM
Ironically, the pressure on ordinary Russians comes from within.

Russia is about to enact the law that will allow to seize foreign-owned assets in the state to compensate super-rich Russians affected by sanctions, at the expense of ordinary people.
http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-law-proposes-foreign-asset-seizures-compensate-those-affected-ukraine-sanctions-1701892 (http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-law-proposes-foreign-asset-seizures-compensate-those-affected-ukraine-sanctions-1701892)
Nothing unusual. In Europe pension funds were plundered to fight the economic crisis.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 12, 2014, 02:05:47 PM
EU countries plundered the diplomatic assets of other countries to compensate their elites?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on October 12, 2014, 02:11:05 PM
Have Russians ever waited until the winter was over?


If memory serves me correct, they always wait till winter is over before going on the offensive. Hitler and Napoleon made the mistake of fighting in Russian winter. Putin is going to let winter do a number on Ukraine just as it did Germany and France before going on the offensive.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 02:11:53 PM
EU countries plundered the diplomatic assets of other countries to compensate their elites?
Indeed. The Dutch pension fund decreased their safety margin to 'rescue' Bank of Cyprus, some Spanish and Italian banks.
Orders from the EU.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 12, 2014, 02:22:05 PM
Which diplomatic assets did they steal from other countries? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 12, 2014, 03:44:13 PM
Nothing unusual. In Europe pension funds were plundered to fight the economic crisis.

Didn't I just read that putin is also going to rob pension funds?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 12, 2014, 07:35:42 PM
Look- you may be mad at politics, but you are happy about people's hardships.
Again- it is now American real face and I suspest that it's always been this.

 You don't seem very upset about Russia invading Ukraine and the hardships that it's caused Ukrainians in Krym and the SE area of UA.  It isnow the real face of Russia and I KNOW that it's always been this!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 12, 2014, 07:38:24 PM
there is a difference. You can say Putin is a hkhuilo. You are not allowed to use the word khuilo alone to refer to him.
That will be edited and on continuation punished.

 Would you care to explain why he cannot be called that?
 Everyone with 1/2 a cell of grey matter knows who we're talking about.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 12, 2014, 07:43:29 PM
This situation is happening because of USA and EU sanctions.


 Are you daft?  :cluebat:

 This situation is happening because of the invasion of yet another country by Russia.. This time their 'little brother'. For some silly reason the modern world of the west doesn't seem to like Russia's stealing others lands and lives..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 07:57:53 PM

If memory serves me correct, they always wait till winter is over before going on the offensive. Hitler and Napoleon made the mistake of fighting in Russian winter. Putin is going to let winter do a number on Ukraine just as it did Germany and France before going on the offensive.

A pro-Ukrainian Putin admirer
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on October 12, 2014, 08:15:19 PM
Quote
Are you daft? 

mike unfortunatly some people are that daft

tHE propoganda war has worked well

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 12, 2014, 08:18:05 PM
Possibly brains are an option for brainwashing?  ;)

 Either that or they shrunk during the wash....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 12, 2014, 09:25:38 PM
Billy, same happened in Russia in 1998. Russia recovered and it WILL recover now.
Russians are survivers by nature. It is in our blood.

Big difference between merely surviving and actually prospering...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 02:01:08 AM
I posted earlier about song being sung at public functions-- everyone joins in-- children,grandmothers ,everyone! :D  It is always accompanied by much laughter about the subject matter ( which btw-the  censorship here is RIDICULOUS)
Quoting--
Lithuanians powerful singing "Putin - x * ylo" to match selection for Euro 2016 Vilnius, October 11, 14:19 Print Famous hit "Putin - x * ylo" sang not only match Belarus - Ukraine. The famous hit "Putin - x * ylo" sang not only match Belarus - Ukraine . Song of the Russian president and sang in Vilnius Lithuanian fans during the game selection for Euro 2016 Lithuania - Estonia (1: 0) . Read more: "I think everyone understood that fraternal country for Ukraine": Best Tweets match Belarus - Ukraine
Більше читайте тут: http://prosport.tsn.ua/sport/litovci-potuzhno-zaspivali-putin-h-ylo-na-matchi-yevro-2016-373358.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMd6GMij4fI
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 13, 2014, 02:32:26 AM
I hope the microphones are there to pick up this conversation between the Aus prime minister and Putin...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/13/g20-australia-russia-idUSL3N0S821M20141013

It will be a classic photo to show Abbott towering over Putin with them eyeballing each other!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 02:43:09 AM
I hope the microphones are there to pick up this conversation between the Aus prime minister and Putin...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/13/g20-australia-russia-idUSL3N0S821M20141013

It will be a classic photo to show Abbott towering over Putin with them eyeballing each other!
 

Quote from story that is headlining the news tonight here--
"Look, I'm going to shirtfront Mr Putin - you bet I am," Abbott told reporters, using an Australian Rules Football term meaning to hit someone front on and knock them to the ground."
"I'm going to be saying to Mr Putin, Australians were murdered and they were murdered by Russian-backed rebels using Russian supplied equipment," he said."
I will be happy if he is plain outright rude to him and persists in asking him about Russian complicity !Behave like a current affairs show type reporter with his foot in the door  !!Treat him with the respect he deserves-- that is a zero btw.  A verbal shirtfront I think!


ps   I   will have a t-shirt for him to wear-- you know-- with   that   word( CENSORED) on it !! :zap:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Mod3 on October 13, 2014, 04:08:10 AM
Would you care to explain why he cannot be called that?
 Everyone with 1/2 a cell of grey matter knows who we're talking about.
TOS.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 13, 2014, 06:44:42 AM
Big difference between merely surviving and actually prospering...
No kidding!
It doesn't matter- Russians will survive.
Actually, we have never lived really well (to your standards) so we are used to be hungry and proud.
Seriously. You can keep you prosperity for the USA.
I alone remember at least 4-5  hard periods in Russia (or USSR before).
We survived.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 13, 2014, 08:07:16 AM
More daftness!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

 Why not try any get along and live a better life style with out killing others, your little brothers and stealing their lands?

 Move into the 21st century and don't try to relive the 19th and early 20thin the 'daze' of glory.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 13, 2014, 08:14:23 AM
Listen, Mr. Daft- I just responded to "congrats with worsening economics".
Again, where are friendly Americans when they are happy about other people hardships?
Nowhere.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 13, 2014, 08:31:05 AM
Personally I'm happy that Russia is now feeling some of the hardships that they have inflicted on Ukraine. It should continue until Ukraine is restored to it's original state including restoring war damage as well as Krym and Kuban.

 But,  that won't make any impression on you I'm sure.

 Turn about's fair play..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on October 13, 2014, 08:58:16 AM
It seems there is a groundswell.  I first saw it in Stirlitz's posts.  Next it was heard in the protest chants of marchers.  Now in thunderous songs at football games. 


                                          PUTIN DICKHEAD....PUTIN DICKHEAD


Soon there will be Putin Dickhead T-shirts.  This could progress to the point of having Putin Dickhead Awards.

Because of propriety and good taste, we can not use the specific Russian term for "dickhead."   I say that is unfortunate because the Russian term with "Putin" sounds to my untrained ear far better than "Putin Dickhead."   It is poetry.   I guess "Putin" is another example of Russian terms that lose their meaning in translation, much like Pushkin's poems lose much when translated.   

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 13, 2014, 10:48:01 AM
I'm in Ukraine at the moment. I sure would like to buy a Putin Khuilo! T-shirt if they are available.

Maybe the Putin Khuilo! song will become Ukraine's entry for next year's Eurovision song contest!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 13, 2014, 01:08:59 PM
This situation is happening because of USA and EU sanctions. You think that Russians will response like "hands up"?
Never. Read the history of Russia. It bever happened , it will never happen. Trust me.
The more pressure on Russians, the more stubborn they are.

Maybe not but the Russian government may be willing to get down on their knees to avoid said sanctions...

Putin Deals China Winning Hand as Sanctions Power Rival

 ..."Defying his former enemies in the U.S. and Europe may force Vladimir Putin to aid the ascent of his biggest rival in the east.

Isolated over Ukraine, Russia is relying on China for the investment it needs to avert a recession, three people involved in policy planning said, asking not to be identified discussing internal matters. This means caving in to pressure to grant China privileged access to the two things it wants most: raw materials and advanced weapons, two of the people said"...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-12/putin-deals-china-winning-hand-as-sanctions-power-rival.html

Chinese lenders grow wary of Russia

..."When Chinese premier Li Keqiang and his Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev start talks on Monday that are expected to culminate in the signing of more than 50 deals, it will be the latest demonstration of hopes that China is riding to the rescue as US and EU sanctions block new western funding for Russian banks and corporates.

But despite a steady flow of handshakes and signatures, Chinese money has been hard to secure. According to numerous executives and bankers, Chinese banks and investors are dragging their heels in Russia, unwilling to risk antagonising the west by providing the surge of funding that Moscow desperately needs"...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4e3ec352-51f8-11e4-b55e-00144feab7de.html#axzz3G3E0dNkt

These are both opinion pieces of course, however, they give some insight into the mindset behind the (just signed) trade deals and the possible pitfalls of signing trade pacts under duress.

Putin's gonna learn the Chinese are not Russia's friend. Anything they do geopolitically/economically is for the benefit of China, no one else.

Of note is the weapons technology deals. Here's how I see this going down... the Chinese get 4th generation Russian technology at a bargain price, reverse engineer the stuff, build new stuff with Russian supplied raw material (also now obtained at a bargain price) then sell it to Russia's military equipment customers at 1/2 the price and Russia's economy takes another hit. Paranoid? Well that's exactly what the Chinese do now which is why the Russian's up to now haven't been selling them their new(est) generation military stuff. :D

However, the Russian's aren't the only ones making bad deals with the Chinese right now. Canada just signed a trade deal which is going to come back and bite us in the bum as well... >:(

Brass




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 13, 2014, 01:24:02 PM
TOS.

I haven't read the TOS, but they usually refer to one poster insulting another, not to freedom of speech regarding someone who has invaded another country, ala Hitler; which is why some of us refer to him on occasion as Herr Putler.  And as missAmeno said, it has actually become part of the speech of millions of people around the World, because speech and words do change over time.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 13, 2014, 01:25:22 PM
More daftness!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

 Why not try any get along and live a better life style with out killing others, your little brothers and stealing their lands?

 Move into the 21st century and don't try to relive the 19th and early 20thin the 'daze' of glory.

Amen to that!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 13, 2014, 01:28:06 PM
Listen, Mr. Daft- I just responded to "congrats with worsening economics".
Again, where are friendly Americans when they are happy about other people hardships?
Nowhere.

If you actually believe this then you really don't understand America or Americans at all.  We always root for the person or country which deserves our encouragement, not for a Hitler and his brainwashed countrymen.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on October 13, 2014, 01:30:47 PM

Because of propriety and good taste, we can not use the specific Russian term for "dickhead."   I say that is unfortunate because the Russian term with "Putin" sounds to my untrained ear far better than "Putin Dickhead."   It is poetry.   I guess "Putin" is another example of Russian terms that lose their meaning in translation, much like Pushkin's poems lose much when translated.   


H-word is derived from the noun 'd--k'; the suffix 'lo' changes the noun's masculine gender to a neutral one, making it more offensive name to call anyone.
H-word is used to express the speaker's strong emotional involvement such as anger, derogatory dismissal, a feeling of intense disgust and even hatred towards the one who's lost the respect of the speaker.
Although vulgar, many people do not grant it the power to offend someone terribly  :-\
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 13, 2014, 01:34:55 PM
Of note is the weapons technology deals. Here's how I see this going down... the Chinese get 4th generation Russian technology at a bargain price, reverse engineer the stuff, build new stuff with Russian supplied raw material (also now obtained at a bargain price) then sell it to Russia's military equipment customers at 1/2 the price and Russia's economy takes another hit.

Yup.  I would say this whole invasion of Ukraine by Putin will be studied 50 years from now as the reason for Russia's downfall, just like people study Hitler and his mindset still right now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 13, 2014, 01:42:05 PM
Yup.  I would say this whole invasion of Ukraine by Putin will be studied 50 years from now as the reason for Russia's downfall, just like people study Hitler and his mindset still right now.

Seems like there are a lot of similarities as well.  The Russian propaganda machine and outright lies, agression and invasion of other countries, etc.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 13, 2014, 03:20:03 PM
And yet more bad news for the Russian people...

Russian Justice Ministry Says Law Violations Behind Move to Ban 'Memorial' Rights Group

..."MOSCOW, October 13 (RIA Novosti) - The reason why the Russian Ministry of Justice asked the country's the Supreme Court to liquidate the historical and civil rights group Memorial, because the organization has repeatedly and grossly violated Russian law, the Ministry's press service told RIA Novosti Monday."...

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20141013/194041692/Russian-Justice-Ministry-Says-Law-Violations-Behind-Move-to-Ban-Memorial-Rights-Group.html

The Kremlin’s Plan to Erase Russia’s Memory and Its Conscience

..."The ministry of justice is doing its best to shut down Memorial, the organization first headed by Andrei Sakharov, that is at the heart of civil society.

MOSCOW—The Russian government is threatening to eliminate Memorial, the most important support network for Russian civil society. On Friday, the ministry of justice filed a suit asking the supreme court “to liquidate”—a very heavy word—the country’s oldest civil-rights organization. A hearing is scheduled for Nov. 13."...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/13/the-kremlin-s-plan-to-erase-russia-s-memory-and-its-conscience.html


Kremlin Seeks to Silence Prominent Human Rights Group by Having Them 'Liquidated'

..."Russia’s justice ministry has applied to the country’s supreme court to “liquidate” Memorial, Russia’s leading human rights organisation.

The Nobel Peace Prize winning organisation has been a thorn in the side of the Kremlin for many years thanks to its work highlighting various human rights violations by the Russian government. Activists have denounced the attempt to close down the organisation, and said it proved that the Russian authorities perceive Memorial as “a threat”...

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/10/13/Kremlin-seeks-to-silence-prominent-human-rights-group

It's beyond me how the Russians don't see their rights and freedoms being systematically stripped from them day after day.

It'll only be a matter of time until we start getting reports of Kremlin backed 'Pogroms' coming out of Russia. :(

Brass






Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 03:57:11 PM
It seems there is a groundswell.  I first saw it in Stirlitz's posts.  Next it was heard in the protest chants of marchers.  Now in thunderous songs at football games. 


                                          PUTIN DICKHEAD....PUTIN DICKHEAD


Soon there will be Putin Dickhead T-shirts.  This could progress to the point of having Putin Dickhead Awards.

Because of propriety and good taste, we can not use the specific Russian term for "dickhead."   I say that is unfortunate because the Russian term with "Putin" sounds to my untrained ear far better than "Putin Dickhead."   It is poetry.   I guess "Putin" is another example of Russian terms that lose their meaning in translation, much like Pushkin's poems lose much when translated.   
I'm in Ukraine at the moment. I sure would like to buy a Putin Khuilo! T-shirt if they are available.

Maybe the Putin Khuilo! song will become Ukraine's entry for next year's Eurovision song contest!

T-Shirts and windcheaters are readily available everywhere in Ukraine--both in Russian and English.
Also flags,bumper stickers,caps!!Free enterprise and speech is alive and well in Ukraine!! ;D
SC-- particularly look at markets and street vendors in high traffic areas-- they really will be easy to to find.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 04:01:09 PM
H-word is derived from the noun 'd--k'; the suffix 'lo' changes the noun's masculine gender to a neutral one, making it more offensive name to call anyone.
H-word is used to express the speaker's strong emotional involvement such as anger, derogatory dismissal, a feeling of intense disgust and even hatred towards the one who's lost the respect of the speaker.
Although vulgar, many people do not grant it the power to offend someone terribly  :-\

This is a good explanation-- it is exactly how it is being used in Ukraine now--literally spat out.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on October 13, 2014, 04:05:30 PM
H-word is derived from the noun 'd--k'; the suffix 'lo' changes the noun's masculine gender to a neutral one, making it more offensive name to call anyone.
H-word is used to express the speaker's strong emotional involvement such as anger, derogatory dismissal, a feeling of intense disgust and even hatred towards the one who's lost the respect of the speaker.
Although vulgar, many people do not grant it the power to offend someone terribly  :-\


Me thinks that the party responsible for censoring the name clarifier is a Putler apologist.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 04:13:01 PM
It seems there is a groundswell.  I first saw it in Stirlitz's posts.  Next it was heard in the protest chants of marchers.  Now in thunderous songs at football games.

                   
Gator--the link is not even in Ukraine--it has become widespread.
The guy who wrote and performs this song has risen to close to No1 in Ukraine( maybe someone else can help explain this?)
I saw the song being sung at major public events in 2 cities in Ukraine where more that  50000 people were present( maybe 2 or 3 times that number)-- ( I actually showed a forum member live on Skype) and EVERYONE knows the words and sing along. The raucous laughter at the end is very funny.
The total contempt towards the subject matter is clear.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 04:14:49 PM

Me thinks that the party responsible for censoring the name clarifier is a Putler apologist.

Can you spell that out please?Who where,what?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 13, 2014, 04:25:21 PM
T-Shirts and windcheaters are readily available everywhere in Ukraine--both in Russian and English.
Also flags,bumper stickers,caps!!Free enterprise and speech is alive and well in Ukraine!! ;D
SC-- particularly look at markets and street vendors in high traffic areas-- they really will be easy to to find.

I would love to find someone in Ukraine to send me decals for the rear window on my truck that says "Glory to Ukraine" in English.

Also to send me  a case of Putin toilet paper.  I could sell them at the Farmers Market and Swap Meet for a good price.

Wifey is hesitant to purchase anything political.     ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 13, 2014, 05:12:52 PM
I would love to find someone in Ukraine to send me decals for the rear window on my truck that says "Glory to Ukraine" in English.

Also to send me  a case of Putin toilet paper.  I could sell them at the Farmers Market and Swap Meet for a good price.

Wifey is hesitant to purchase anything political.     ;D
http://www.cafepress.com/+ukraine+bumper-stickers?utm_campaign=international%20places%20bsm%20-%20us&utm_content=search-b&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=ukraine%20bumper%20sticker&utm_source=google (http://www.cafepress.com/+ukraine+bumper-stickers?utm_campaign=international%20places%20bsm%20-%20us&utm_content=search-b&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=ukraine%20bumper%20sticker&utm_source=google)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 13, 2014, 05:21:50 PM
I'm in Ukraine at the moment. I sure would like to buy a Putin Khuilo! T-shirt if they are available.

Maybe the Putin Khuilo! song will become Ukraine's entry for next year's Eurovision song contest!


http://teespring.com/putin-khuilo

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 13, 2014, 05:30:09 PM
There's some good PutinHuilo bumper stickers there at Dolls site also!  :crackwhip:



http://www.cafepress.com/+putin-huilo+bumper-stickers
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 13, 2014, 07:09:23 PM
You have a point there.   ;D
If I recall correctly, had it not been for a bad winter, Germany many have overrun Russia.

We are talking about Ukraine not Novgorod.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 07:52:21 PM
 Killed are the Russian general Sergei Andreychenko,Chechen commander for the special forces in Mariupol Andrey Borisov  +2 elite troops.

Russian general Sergei Andreychenko,Chechen commander for the special forces in Mariupol Andrey Borisov  were killed.
In Telmanovo on the night of 8 to 9 October around 23.00 commando battalion group "Dnepr-1" carried out a special operation, which resulted in a liquidated terrorist Andrey Borisov (Chechen) and three Russian military. Among the dead - Russian general Sergei Andreychenko.

About this 0629 said a law enforcement source.

According to the source, Sergey Andreychenko coordinated the activities of the Russian special services in the Sea of ​​Azov. Along with him were killed Russian saboteurs Vladimir Lysyakov and Basil Protasiv.

In Ukraine, the Russian commando group sent Khalil Abduhalimovich ARSLANOV.

Recall Chechen force represented a group of terrorists in Mariupol, and was sent to the city Girkinym. In June, the eve of the liberation of Mariupol, he was warned about the planned raid and managed to escape by faking his own death. 0629 as reported by sources, for the sake of killing two random guys. They burned in the car, and after the burned bodies were given for Chechena and his partner in crime.


http://m.0629.com.ua/news/641633

ps note  he is not a Chechen. His nickname is "Chechen"
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 13, 2014, 08:09:14 PM
Too bad.. If this keeps up there won't be any Russian soldiers that will want to 'vacation' in SE Ukraine.. :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 13, 2014, 08:19:50 PM
http://www.cafepress.com/+ukraine+bumper-stickers?utm_campaign=international%20places%20bsm%20-%20us&utm_content=search-b&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=ukraine%20bumper%20sticker&utm_source=google (http://www.cafepress.com/+ukraine+bumper-stickers?utm_campaign=international%20places%20bsm%20-%20us&utm_content=search-b&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=ukraine%20bumper%20sticker&utm_source=google)

Thanks, your a doll.       ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 13, 2014, 08:25:10 PM
Too bad.. If this keeps up there won't be any Russian soldiers that will want to 'vacation' in SE Ukraine.. :clapping:

At least no Russian officers.    ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 08:59:58 PM
Too bad.. If this keeps up there won't be any Russian soldiers that will want to 'vacation' in SE Ukraine.. :clapping:

They dont actually know they are on "vacation" !! :)  And remarkably they often don't know where they are until someone starts shooting back !! :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 14, 2014, 05:12:13 AM
Hopefully the Aust. prime minister gets a chance to do the world a favour by destroying Putin's macho man image...

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-diplomat-calls-australian-leader-immature-072929355.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 14, 2014, 06:08:08 AM
Hopefully the Aust. prime minister gets a chance to do the world a favour by destroying Putin's macho man image...

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-diplomat-calls-australian-leader-immature-072929355.html (http://news.yahoo.com/russian-diplomat-calls-australian-leader-immature-072929355.html)
Like Putin cares :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 14, 2014, 08:50:47 AM

The Russian Central Bank Admits Defeat


Russian Central Bank head Elvira Nabiullina has admitted that if currency markets continue to turn against the ruble the bank "won?t be able to restrain them."

Despite the central bank spending $6 billion of Russia's foreign exchange reserves in only 10 days to prop up the value of the ruble, it continued its slide against the dollar on Monday:

The admission that central bank is unable to defend a fixed exchange rate for the ruble against heavy selling of the currency by international investors demonstrates the extent of the country's problems as it battles falling oil prices and a weakening economy.

But it's unlikely to mark the end of state interventions in the market. Russian media report Nabiullina as saying:

I would like to stress that we?re not going to quit the foreign exchange market completely. We?re changing, so to speak, the nature of our participation in the foreign currency market. We?ll make interventions, if there are risks to financial stability.

The central bank is undergoing stress tests to gauge the effects of further sharp falls in oil prices after Brent crude oil traded on Monday as low as $87 a barrel, its lowest point in 18-months. Oil exports are crucial for the Russian economy, particularly with international sanctions on the country's financial and commodities sectors weighing on growth.


Falling commodity prices are helping to drive the flow of foreign capital out of the country as investors sell their ruble holdings pushing down the value of the ruble relative to other currencies.

So far in 2014, Russia has burned through over $55 billion of its international reserves, much of which has been spent buying rubles to prop up its value, leaving around $452 billion in the coffers. It looks like it will have to dip even further into this pot if it is to protect the country from economic disaster.

 http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-central-bank-admits-defeat-over-defending-the-ruble-2014-10#ixzz3G8Akc9Mq

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 14, 2014, 11:29:16 AM
The Russian Central Bank Admits Defeat


 :truce:  Another one of Putin's "accomplishments"...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 14, 2014, 11:38:38 AM
The central bank is undergoing stress tests to gauge the effects of further sharp falls in oil prices after Brent crude oil traded on Monday as low as $87 a barrel, its lowest point in 18-months. Oil exports are crucial for the Russian economy, particularly with international sanctions on the country's financial and commodities sectors weighing on growth.


Falling commodity prices are helping to drive the flow of foreign capital out of the country as investors sell their ruble holdings pushing down the value of the ruble relative to other currencies.


Unless the price of oil goes back up towards $100 per barrel quickly, this does not bode well for Putin's long term prospects as President.

I may have to modify my 5 year projection of his demise downwards.   ;D

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 14, 2014, 12:09:11 PM

Unless the price of oil goes back up towards $100 per barrel quickly, this does not bode well for Putin's long term prospects as President.

I may have to modify my 5 year projection of his demise downwards.   ;D

I'm not sure about that.  Once he has compleley silenced the free press, cut off the internet and communications to the masses, strongarms any opposition, it's pretty hard to get the truth out to the zombies.  Once again..... a closed society.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 14, 2014, 12:31:28 PM

Unless the price of oil goes back up towards $100 per barrel quickly, this does not bode well for Putin's long term prospects as President.


Putin can always try to reduce world oil supply and force prices back up by shutting down Russian oil wells!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on October 14, 2014, 03:05:22 PM
Putin can always try to reduce world oil supply and force prices back up by shutting down Russian oil wells!


Would you ever cut your nose to spite your face?


Putin is not as macho as he thinks he is. I'll gladly give him a dull knife for him to slice one nostril.  >:D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 14, 2014, 03:27:30 PM
Putin can always try to reduce world oil supply and force prices back up by shutting down Russian oil wells!

Yes, that would be a great strategy.............. to speed up the collapse of their economy.     :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 14, 2014, 08:47:40 PM
Hello Putin?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZIBqOIbXi4
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2014, 05:43:49 AM
Yes, that would be a great strategy.............. to speed up the collapse of their economy.     :clapping:
BTW, you watch your economy (which is going South)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 15, 2014, 07:37:22 AM
BTW, you watch your economy (which is going South)


While people are cheering on what they see as negative news in the Russian economy, ours is tanking big time.   Just today alone, the bond interest rate has plummeted 12%...and the markets are still in free-fall.  Maybe we should worry about our own frail economy instead of trying to 'harm' another nations economy?  So far Putin was right, the boomerang is occurring.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 15, 2014, 09:55:42 AM
Forty Percent of Russians Don't Know Why Ruble's Value Is Plummeting
The Moscow Times
Oct. 10 2014 20:00
Last edited 20:02

Maxim Stulov / Vedomosti


As Russia's ruble hemorrhages value, more than 40 percent of Russians are unable to explain why the currency is depreciating, even as the majority admit that it is bound to impact their lives, a poll published Friday showed.

The ruble continued its months-long slide on Friday, falling 0.6 percent against the U.S. dollar by evening. The ruble has collapsed more than 20 percent against the dollar this year under pressure from a plunge in oil prices, a strong dollar and Western sanctions over the war in eastern Ukraine.

But when Russian citizens were asked what was behind the currency's fall, 41 percent couldn't provide an answer, a study by state-run pollster the Public Opinion Foundation found.

Of 1,500 respondents, 23 percent blamed United States and European Union sanctions against Russia for pushing down the ruble.

Another 10 percent pointed to the war in eastern Ukraine; 8 percent blamed problems in the Russian economy, which is running close to zero growth this year; and 6 percent said spoiled relations with the West were responsible.

Only 5 percent pointed to the falling oil price. Brent oil was below $90 dollars per barrel on Friday, down from a high of $113 in July.

Nonetheless, a majority of respondents expect to be affected: 41 percent said they believe changes in the ruble exchange rate will have an "acute" impact on their lives, while another 20 percent anticipate a "weak" impact.

The survey was conducted in 100 towns and cities across Russia and had a margin of error not exceeding 3.6 percent.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509267.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 15, 2014, 10:12:49 AM

Only 5 percent pointed to the falling oil price. Brent oil was below $90 dollars per barrel on Friday, down from a high of $113 in July.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509267.html

Looks like it will drop even more, which is usually good for the US economy, and very bad for Russia's:


http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/money/cramer-oil-hit-by-perfect-storm/ar-BB9eoxV
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 15, 2014, 10:28:46 AM
BTW, you watch your economy (which is going South)


The US economy has far more resiliency than the Russian economy.  Let's wait and see what happens on November 4th.  There is pent-up demand for work to be done, we just need a Congress which will let it happen.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/crumbling-us-fix-seen-in-trillions-of-dollars-of-global-money/ar-AA6QWza
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on October 15, 2014, 10:56:14 AM
BTW, you watch your economy (which is going South)

Yes, sell all your assets, and exchange all your dollars for rubles. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2014, 11:16:39 AM
Yes, sell all your assets, and exchange all your dollars for rubles.
Actually, it is the best time to do it, especially for the ones who want to buy real estate property in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 15, 2014, 11:53:22 AM
Actually, it is the best time to do it, especially for the ones who want to buy real estate property in Russia.

If you believe that the Rouble has already bottomed out and will rebound soon.

Also isn't there some proposed new law in Russia about giving the government the power to seize foreigner's assets to compensate Putin's cronies for their losses? With this sovereign risk why would any individual bother to invest in real estate in Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2014, 12:14:57 PM
If you believe that the Rouble has already bottomed out and will rebound soon.

Also isn't there some proposed new law in Russia about giving the government the power to seize foreigner's assets to compensate Putin's cronies for their losses? With this sovereign risk why would any individual bother to invest in real estate in Russia?
Banks still do transactions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 15, 2014, 12:46:55 PM
The Kremlin must be really p*ssed off with the Saudis for tanking the oil price.
Too bad there aren't any Russian speakers living in Saudi Arabia for Putin to stage an invasion protect.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 15, 2014, 04:20:53 PM
Actually, it is the best time to do it, especially for the ones who want to buy real estate property in Russia.

Why in the world would any sane person want to buy property in a land controlled by a Huilonista?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on October 15, 2014, 05:59:02 PM

Let's wait and see what happens on November 4th

November 4th is Melbourne Cup day.  Nothing else that happens in the world that day matters at all.  :devil:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 15, 2014, 07:21:36 PM
The Kremlin must be really p*ssed off with the Saudis for tanking the oil price.

The Saudi's claim that they just want to maintain market share at a time when oil is plunging all over the World, so they are looking for new customers to do just that.

I think it has more to do with the USA becoming more of an oil producer than in years past. 

I doubt if Obama was smart enough to think of getting them to do this; but you never know.  He (Obama) clearly blamed Putin for upsetting the fraternity of peaceful nations by annexing Crimea etc. when he gave his speech in France commemorating the actions of the US military and allies during WWII.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 16, 2014, 05:09:04 AM
It seems the average Russian citizen thinks being subjected to crippling sanctions will be good for their country...

http://news.yahoo.com/majority-russians-western-sanctions-help-economy-poll-105156381--business.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 05:59:00 AM
It seems the average Russian citizen thinks being subjected to crippling sanctions will be good for their country...

http://news.yahoo.com/majority-russians-western-sanctions-help-economy-poll-105156381--business.html (http://news.yahoo.com/majority-russians-western-sanctions-help-economy-poll-105156381--business.html)
Sanctions have a lot of positive for Russian economy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 16, 2014, 07:16:20 AM
It seems the average Russian citizen thinks being subjected to crippling sanctions will be good for their country...

http://news.yahoo.com/majority-russians-western-sanctions-help-economy-poll-105156381--business.html (http://news.yahoo.com/majority-russians-western-sanctions-help-economy-poll-105156381--business.html)


Well we shall see if the sanctions put Russians in a position where they have to be more self-sufficient.  They have an enormous amount of resources, so if they use what they have, the sanctions could ultimately benefit them in the respect that they 'learn to fish'.  The boomerang continues though, as our markets are set to open down once again.   


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 16, 2014, 08:09:26 AM
Sanctions have a lot of positive for Russian economy.

Such as?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 16, 2014, 08:43:00 AM
Such as?

They've lost weight because of the food import ban.
Because the prices have risen and the 'rubble' has fallen they eat less.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 08:48:57 AM
Such as?

Well we shall see if the sanctions put Russians in a position where they have to be more self-sufficient.  They have an enormous amount of resources, so if they use what they have, the sanctions could ultimately benefit them in the respect that they 'learn to fish'.  The boomerang continues though, as our markets are set to open down once again.   


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 08:51:50 AM
They've lost weight because of the food import ban.
Because the prices have risen and the 'rubble' has fallen they eat less.
Russia is a huge country with a lot of food PLUS there are China and ALL the Asian countries what will be happy to sell food to Russia.
Like we need Polish apples! ;D
HAHAHAAAA
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 08:54:40 AM
They've lost weight because of the food import ban.
Because the prices have risen and the 'rubble' has fallen they eat less.
My son lives in Russia, I am on Skype with him daily.
They are eating same way.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 09:00:39 AM
Russia now has many new contracts with different countries including Belorussia, many Asian countries and Latin America.
Read the news, guys
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 16, 2014, 09:48:39 AM
But for example are the substitutes really as good as real French cheese or Belgian chocolate?


Well we shall see if the sanctions put Russians in a position where they have to be more self-sufficient.  They have an enormous amount of resources, so if they use what they have, the sanctions could ultimately benefit them in the respect that they 'learn to fish'.  The boomerang continues though, as our markets are set to open down once again.   


Fathertime!

Is it really that easy for a country that had no previous experience in manufacturing a particular product, to make that product from scratch and have it nearly as good quality and price competitive as made by another country that specialises in making that product? You know, the concept of specialisation?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 09:54:00 AM
But for example are the substitutes really as good as real French cheese or Belgian chocolate?

Is it really that easy for a country that had no previous experience in manufacturing a particular product, to make that product from scratch and have it nearly as good quality and price competitive as made by another country that specialises in making that product? You know, the concept of specialisation?
Sleepycat, Russia had this experience in 1998 when we had default. Ruble dropped 4 times (TIMES)
It was a good wake up call and Russia started producing many more things.
Same is happening now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 09:59:16 AM
Forgot to cry over French cheese and Belgian chocolate - I am not sure if I've ever tried this chocolate and I don't care for French cheese.
What I am implying is- in the situation like this Russian don't care. Like I said before, we will eat dirt but stay proud.
This is what you will never understand.
Also, read history of Russia. It has been never conquered (after Mongolians)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Wayne on October 16, 2014, 10:57:24 AM
My wife says Russian chocolate is no good compared to Ukrainian chocolate. She also thinks Ukrainian beer is better than Russian.
 
Your talking about buying land in Russia as an American--but is that even possible? I know in Ukraine you can buy a flat or land as long as it is not farm land.
 
Also, it is typical to list the price for land in USD.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 16, 2014, 11:15:04 AM
As Doll suggested they'll rather eat dirt and be proud so whether Russian chocolate taste any good seems irrelevant!

Plus with the new proposed law giving the government power to confiscate foreigner's assets to compensate Putin's cronies, why would anyone risk their money to buy real estate in Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 11:15:30 AM
You forgot- my older som live in Russia. He can buy. I am also a RF citizen. Remember? :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 11:18:16 AM
As Doll suggested they'll rather eat dirt and be proud so whether Russian chocolate taste any good seems irrelevant!

Plus with the new proposed law giving the government power to confiscate foreigner's assets to compensate Putin's cronies, why would anyone risk their money to buy real estate in Russia?
Russian chocolate is very good, I always bring it from Russia for my son and my friends.
But will gladly forget the taste of it and many other products but stay proud.
Anyone can keep dollars, I can buy anything there. Now it is a very good time for buying real estate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 16, 2014, 11:24:34 AM
Wayne was talking about Americans (or foreigners in general) buying real estate in Russia.

Are you saying foreigners should not consider the implication of that new proposed asset confiscation law, when deciding whether to purchase real estate in Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 16, 2014, 01:10:52 PM
What I am implying is- in the situation like this Russian don't care. Like I said before, we will eat dirt but stay proud.
This is what you will never understand
.

Oh but we do understand.  You are so incredibly foolish that you would like to have your dirt and eat it too!

In other words, you would like the World to ignore the fact that Russia invaded another sovereign country, against the law, so now you will be so stubborn and refuse to make things right with Ukraine that you would rather eat dirt!

Can you please make a film of yourself and other proud/stubborn/foolish Russians eating dirt?  Please post that film to youtube and provide all of us with a link, we would love to see it!

But there are other Russians, those not so foolish as you, those Billionaire oligarchs who are losing millions of dollars, possibly hundreds of millions, who would prefer to have a regime change.

Right now there's Khodorkovsky who has stated publicly what he wants -- but you can be very sure there are other wiser ones who make plans silently.

5 years or less and your "dear leader" will be gone.  In the meantime, please eat some more dirt!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 16, 2014, 01:14:44 PM
You forgot- my older som live in Russia. He can buy. I am also a RF citizen. Remember? :D

Go home to your motherland proud Russian Federation citizen!  They need you!  Take your 18 year old son with you, and give him to the Russian military to do his duty!  No more arguments, no more excuses!  They need you and your son!  They need everybody they can get, to protect the motherland against naked Ukrainian aggression!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 03:50:48 PM
AC, my younger is in USAF. He makes decisions by himself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 04:08:10 AM
Go home to your motherland proud Russian Federation citizen!  They need you!  Take your 18 year old son with you, and give him to the Russian military to do his duty!  No more arguments, no more excuses!  They need you and your son!  They need everybody they can get, to protect the motherland against naked Ukrainian aggression!!
So, you are suggesting an American citizen who is in a military (USAF) go to Russia and be in Russian military?
What's wrong with you?
They need an American airman? Really?
Very interesting. :clapping:
You need to check out if your ideas are ok with US government.
Here I am being VERY serious.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chicagoguy on October 17, 2014, 08:22:47 AM
Don't mess with Doll.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 08:43:03 AM
Don't mess with Doll.
So, basically, AC wants to send the USA military people to be on a Russia's side against Ukraine.
Very interesting.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 17, 2014, 09:35:10 AM
This is why it is silly to suggest Russia can successfully neutralise the effects of the declining Rouble by substituting imports with domestic production: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/the-ruble-s-senseless-and-harmful-devaluation/509557.html


"But in Russia, nonmilitary end-use industrial products account for only 4 percent of exports, and 45 percent of imports consist of goods not produced in this country at all.

For example, Russia has no manufacturers of computers, mobile phones and other forms of home electronics. That means Russian firms and consumers buying foreign equipment and technology in an effort to keep pace with progress will have to pay more for those products."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 17, 2014, 09:42:01 AM
So, basically, AC wants to send the USA military people to be on a Russia's side against Ukraine.
Very interesting.

More importantly, how do you feel about all this, Doll?

It wouldn't be the first time political allegiance have broken/separated families, of course, but I'm curious to know (within the boundaries of divulging personal/private affairs on an internet forum) how the current situation has effected your family?

Having two sons in uniform myself. I find most anything I say in the meat world or by correspondence is tempered with the thoughts that my views/position on world affairs could effect those closest to me or (if became my government's policy) even place them in harms way.

May I assume your son does not share some or all of your views on Russia/Ukraine and/or does this factor in your considering returning to Russia?

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 17, 2014, 10:27:29 AM
So, you are suggesting an American citizen who is in a military (USAF) go to Russia and be in Russian military?
What's wrong with you?
They need an American airman? Really?
Very interesting. :clapping:
You need to check out if your ideas are ok with US government.
Here I am being VERY serious.

If your son is being influenced by you then he is a clear liability and not an asset to the US Military.  It was you who said that you wanted to go back to Russia and to take your son with you.

If your son is separate from you and has been for a number of years then let's hope he can think for himself.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 17, 2014, 10:31:18 AM
So, basically, AC wants to send the USA military people to be on a Russia's side against Ukraine.
Very interesting.

Nice try, but yet again you show why you are not capable of being in this debate.  You take one thing and extrapolate it into something entirely different and try to put words in my mouth.

It's been you all along talking about how great Russia is and how you want to go back home and buy some real estate, and it was you who mentioned that you have a son here who you might want to take back.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 17, 2014, 11:23:24 AM
If your son is being influenced by you then he is a clear liability and not an asset to the US Military.  It was you who said that you wanted to go back to Russia and to take your son with you.

If your son is separate from you and has been for a number of years then let's hope he can think for himself.


She never stated she wanted to take her son with her.


Comments on family are off limits, BTW.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 11:37:41 AM
If your son is being influenced by you then he is a clear liability and not an asset to the US Military.  It was you who said that you wanted to go back to Russia and to take your son with you.

If your son is separate from you and has been for a number of years then let's hope he can think for himself.
Where did I say I wanted to take my son?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 11:43:13 AM
Nice try, but yet again you show why you are not capable of being in this debate.  You take one thing and extrapolate it into something entirely different and try to put words in my mouth.

It's been you all along talking about how great Russia is and how you want to go back home and buy some real estate, and it was you who mentioned that you have a son here who you might want to take back.
Again- where did I say that?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 11:45:05 AM
If your son is being influenced by you then he is a clear liability and not an asset to the US Military.  It was you who said that you wanted to go back to Russia and to take your son with you.

If your son is separate from you and has been for a number of years then let's hope he can think for himself.
My very kind advice for you is to shut up about my younger (and older too).
One more time- you are trying to bully an American military here.
Got it?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 11:47:41 AM
More importantly, how do you feel about all this, Doll?

   how the current situation has effected your family?

 
 
How do I feel about what?
No situation "effected" my family.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 17, 2014, 12:18:03 PM
How do I feel about what?
No situation "effected" my family.

My question is would you want or expect your son to return to Russia with you and how has he reacted to you considering returning (assuming you've discussed it with him, of course)?

Did the current sabre rattling between Russia and the U.S. make you think of leaving the U.S.? In other words are you thinking of returning to Russia because of loyalty to your homeland?

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 12:22:16 PM
My question is would you want or expect your son to return to Russia with you and how has he reacted to you considering returning (assuming you've discussed it with him, of course)?

Did the current sabre rattling between Russia and the U.S. make you think of leaving the U.S.? In other words are you thinking of returning to Russia because of loyalty to your homeland?

Brass
My son can stay here or moveto any other place REGARDLESS the situation. I am asking "what situation" because the thread is about politics.
Enough about family.
Seriously.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 12:23:33 PM
AC, dear, what words did I put in your mouth?
Here is what you wrote
Go home to your motherland proud Russian Federation citizen!  They need you!  Take your 18 year old son with you, and give him to the Russian military to do his duty!  No more arguments, no more excuses!  They need you and your son!  They need everybody they can get, to protect the motherland against naked Ukrainian aggression!!
See? " No more arguments, no more excuses!" for an USAF airman. :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 17, 2014, 12:28:16 PM
My son can stay here or moveto any other place REGARDLESS the situation. I am asking "what situation" because the thread is about politics.
Enough about family.
Seriously.

Alright. Withdrawn.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 18, 2014, 12:27:59 AM
Specter of '98 Default Stalks Russia's Record Ruble Falls

As the Russian ruble plunges to repeated record lows and the Central Bank ramps up market interventions to defend it, few want to mention Aug. 17, 1998.

On that day, amid budgetary chaos and dwindling foreign currency reserves, Russia abandoned its support of the ruble and announced a default, prompting panic on the streets and sending the currency on its way to a 75 percent devaluation by the year's end.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509680.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 05:50:49 AM
Weaken Russia economically
Separate Russia from her Nukes
Dismember Russia into new republics
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 06:19:10 AM
Specter of '98 Default Stalks Russia's Record Ruble Falls

As the Russian ruble plunges to repeated record lows and the Central Bank ramps up market interventions to defend it, few want to mention Aug. 17, 1998.

On that day, amid budgetary chaos and dwindling foreign currency reserves, Russia abandoned its support of the ruble and announced a default, prompting panic on the streets and sending the currency on its way to a 75 percent devaluation by the year's end.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509680.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509680.html)
I wrote already- I was in Russia (single nother with 2 sons) when it happaned 1998. Ruble dropped 4 times. It is did seem terrible but we survived. As a result, Russia started producing much more food and other things IN the country.
When I go there - I can see that a lot of food is "Russian" in the stores.
I am from Kuban so they grow and consume only local fruit and vegetable. There is some stuff imported but people try to buy local- it is cheaper and much better.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 18, 2014, 08:12:50 AM
Yes I agree, it is not difficult to produce local food to substitute for imports.
But what about other consumer products?
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/the-ruble-s-senseless-and-harmful-devaluation/509557.html

"But in Russia, nonmilitary end-use industrial products account for only 4 percent of exports, and 45 percent of imports consist of goods not produced in this country at all.

For example, Russia has no manufacturers of computers, mobile phones and other forms of home electronics. That means Russian firms and consumers buying foreign equipment and technology in an effort to keep pace with progress will have to pay more for those products."

It's not like Russia can overnight develop industries to produces these items that are not previously produced in the country. Rather than foodstuff, it is those high price imported items like iPhones, flat screen TVs and tablet computers that are most sensitive to exchange rate fluctuations.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 08:22:49 AM
Doll, what you described in 1998 is normal economic activity no sanctions. the only people who get rich during sanctions are black marketers.  Have fun with that. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 08:42:09 AM
Sleepycat, but most of "not produced in Russia" products are imported from China and Japan that didn't apply sanctions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 08:42:57 AM
Doll, what you described in 1998 is normal economic activity no sanctions. the only people who get rich during sanctions are black marketers.  Have fun with that.
1998 default was not "normal" as well.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 18, 2014, 09:11:42 AM
Sleepycat, but most of "not produced in Russia" products are imported from China and Japan that didn't apply sanctions.

The problem is not sanctions, rather the fall in the Rouble will cause Russian consumers to have to pay more for those products.

BTW Japan has imposed sanctions on Russia. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/09/24/uk-japan-russia-sanctions-idUKKCN0HJ0I520140924
(maybe as a late payback for the cheapshot move by the USSR of waiting until the dying days of WWII before declaring war on Japan just to steal some Japanese islands?)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 10:07:24 AM
1998 default was not "normal" as well.

If you normally won't pay your bills, defaults are normal.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 10:10:04 AM
If you normally won't pay your bills, defaults are normal.
What? Russian pay their bill same way as you, believe me.
It was a tough time , but we survived.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 10:10:12 AM
The problem is not sanctions, rather the fall in the Rouble will cause Russian consumers to have to pay more for those products.

BTW Japan has imposed sanctions on Russia. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/09/24/uk-japan-russia-sanctions-idUKKCN0HJ0I520140924
(maybe as a late payback for the cheapshot move by the USSR of waiting until the dying days of WWII before declaring war on Japan just to steal some Japanese islands?)

There is less than 100,000 people living on those islands.  When Russia returns to the chaotic days of the Soviet collapse, Japan will take back those Islands without firing a shot.  $ 500,000 in bribes should do it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 10:11:53 AM
What? Russian pay their bill same way as you, believe me.
It was a tough time , but we survived.

You believe what you want, it doesn't make it true.  Other Russians are sick of Russians like you who do nothing but ape the drivel of KGB gangsters.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 10:18:55 AM
You believe what you want, it doesn't make it true.  Other Russians are sick of Russians like you who do nothing but ape the drivel of KGB gangsters.
I don't care and you use not facts but bad rude language opinion.
One more time- look at your own economy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 10:21:20 AM
When are you leaving?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 10:39:15 AM
When are you leaving?
Вечерней лошадью.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 10:43:04 AM
Tootles
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on October 18, 2014, 11:19:33 AM
I am from Kuban so they grow and consume only local fruit and vegetable. There is some stuff imported but people try to buy local- it is cheaper and much better.

Very true!

Russian (and Ukrainian) consumers usually care about the quality of food, which is why they are far from being confident about the safety and quality of the food imported from China, and quite rightly so, especially when ''committed to revealing the truth'' Russia's State TV Channel One airs programs like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzUAh5fLybY
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on October 18, 2014, 11:35:23 AM
A high-profile Russian official said in an interview with a Russian Government Newspaper that Zbigniew Brzezinski's 'hit-on-vulnerable-spots strategy', initially aimed at breaking up the USSR,  has been launched to target Russia, with its ultimate objective being  ''capturing Russian territory and mineral resources''

http://rt.com/politics/196456-russia-fsb-patrushev-global/ (http://rt.com/politics/196456-russia-fsb-patrushev-global/)

If it's going to be the Kremlin's new ideological pillar, then my post doesn't wander far from the initial topic of this thread
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 18, 2014, 01:27:44 PM
There is less than 100,000 people living on those islands.  When Russia returns to the chaotic days of the Soviet collapse, Japan will take back those Islands without firing a shot.  $ 500,000 in bribes should do it.

No doubt.  I'm just waiting for the day when Germany takes back E. Prussia as well (Kaliningrad).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 18, 2014, 01:57:07 PM
What? Russian pay their bill same way as you, believe me.

Really?  That's not what the professionals think; the ones who rate a countries ability to pay their bills:


http://www.livemint.com/Politics/ttizRwu7coKmuqV0Zos9sK/Russias-credit-rating-lowered-by-Moodys-on-sluggish-growth.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 03:35:50 PM
No doubt.  I'm just waiting for the day when Germany takes back E. Prussia as well (Kaliningrad).

The Residents of Kaliningrad will invite the Germans.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 03:36:17 PM
No doubt.  I'm just waiting for the day when Germany takes back E. Prussia as well (Kaliningrad).
Hate to dissapoint you :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 03:38:41 PM
Really?  That's not what the professionals think; the ones who rate a countries ability to pay their bills:


http://www.livemint.com/Politics/ttizRwu7coKmuqV0Zos9sK/Russias-credit-rating-lowered-by-Moodys-on-sluggish-growth.html (http://www.livemint.com/Politics/ttizRwu7coKmuqV0Zos9sK/Russias-credit-rating-lowered-by-Moodys-on-sluggish-growth.html)
I mean just people who pay their bills for electricity and water (just like you all do).
Speaking of Russia's debt- look at the USA debt.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 03:39:46 PM
The Residents of Kaliningrad will invite the Germans.
I doubt. The is an "anti- separatist" law in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 18, 2014, 03:43:24 PM
Hate to dissapoint you :D

The point you are missing is that your "dear leader" Putin opened a Pandora's box by his illegal annexation of Crimea.  Now that he did that, what will stop other nations from following suit?

International law benefits all providing that all respect it.  Since Russia feels that they don't need to respect international law, neither does anyone else -- not that Germany would ever try such a stunt, German public opinion is very strong that Germany should remain more or less a pacifist type of nation after past events.

This does not change the fact that Russia is likely going to be going into a deep recession in 2015.  After a few years of that, anything is possible.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 18, 2014, 03:45:53 PM
Ukraine has a separatist law also... BUT Russia invaded and took  land and murdered folks despite this. Maybe Laws aren't as strong as bullets from Russo-terrorists?

 Turn about's fair play!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 18, 2014, 03:49:26 PM
I mean just people who pay their bills for electricity and water (just like you all do).
Speaking of Russia's debt- look at the USA debt.

As usual you miss the point.  Russia as a country can no longer borrow money as inexpensively as a nation as in years prior to their invasion of Ukraine.

Those ratings are based on a country's ability to repay it's debt.  The USA has a GDP of over 16 Trillion dollars and so we retain a very good rating.

Russia has a very low GDP as they do not produce anything other than selling oil and natural gas; and they are shooting themselves in the foot over those.  Their best highest paying trading partners were in W. Europe.  Because of Putin's arrogance and foolishness in starting a war against Ukraine, his best partners have enacted sanctions against the Russian economy.
 
Furthermore if he's foolish enough to slow down or shut down gas to Europe this winter it will cement his legacy as being an untrustworthy trading partner with Europe and further ruin Russia's credit rating.

Capiche?  I doubt it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 03:50:53 PM
Really?  That's not what the professionals think; the ones who rate a countries ability to pay their bills:


http://www.livemint.com/Politics/ttizRwu7coKmuqV0Zos9sK/Russias-credit-rating-lowered-by-Moodys-on-sluggish-growth.html

Can you argue against the facts?  Only with more facts.  They have none AC.  Good post.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 18, 2014, 04:14:17 PM
Oil continues to plummet.  Very bad news for Russia:


http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/


http://www.oil-price.net/

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 04:47:18 PM
ПРАВОСЛАВНЫЕ ФАШИСТЫ: http://youtu.be/jIiDX6Hn81E

Not all Russians are idiots
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 18, 2014, 05:48:03 PM
Kudrin Slams Fixing Exchange Rate as Russia's Ruble Touches New Lows

The ruble weakened Friday to a fresh historic low as the Central Bank said its market interventions to slow the currency's fall this month had climbed above $10 billion and former Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin warned against fixing the exchange rate to defuse the crisis.

Shortly after 11:00 a.m. the Russian currency devalued to the record level of 46.29 rubles against the euro-dollar basket, the benchmark used by the Central Bank.

During morning trading in Moscow the ruble also passed the 41 ruble to the U.S. dollar mark for the third time this week, and touched a record low of 52.59 against the euro.

The ruble has weakened by almost 20 percent this year against the euro-dollar basket in the face of Western sanctions against Moscow over the crisis in Ukraine and a sliding global oil price.

Falls have intensified in recent days as the price of Brent crude dropped to four-year lows, although oil pared recent declines Thursday. This, together with an approaching end-of-the-month tax deadline that has increased demand for rubles, helped the currency recover slightly to 45,74 against the basket by 9 p.m.








http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509644.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 06:49:11 PM
Looks like Russia is losing the information war too
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 18, 2014, 09:54:44 PM
I doubt. The is an "anti- separatist" law in Russia.

So the anti separatist concept is good enough for Russia but not good enough for Ukraine. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

If Mother Russia is such a paradise to belong to then there should be no need for the anti separation law as no one will want to leave!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on October 18, 2014, 10:33:10 PM
I don't care and you use not facts but bad rude language opinion.
One more time- look at your own economy.

Doll, when they got you really, shoot them  :D

(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByzVqhDIMAEJZzH.jpg:large)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 11:34:16 PM
Sexy sexy sexy

Beautiful propaganda

More lies
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 19, 2014, 12:15:41 AM
Looks like she never received any training in firearms safety...

Finger off trigger until you are ready to shoot!!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on October 19, 2014, 02:07:35 AM
Finger off trigger until you are ready to shoot!!!

But Doll is ready I think  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: missAmeno on October 19, 2014, 06:06:06 AM
But Doll is ready I think  :D

Do you even comprehend what you are saying?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 19, 2014, 08:55:13 AM
Nyet, be zenyat Angleeski
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 19, 2014, 10:25:25 AM
Nyet, be zenyat Angleeski
What is it?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 19, 2014, 11:08:20 AM
So the anti separatist concept is good enough for Russia but not good enough for Ukraine. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?


Of course it is, but what do you expect from thugs and thieves who cannot mind their own doorstep but instead think they have a right to tell others how to live?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on October 19, 2014, 11:31:44 AM
Do you even comprehend what you are saying?

Yes, sure. I proposed the radical way to shut up tiresome rude people.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 19, 2014, 11:37:20 AM
Yes, sure. I proposed the radical way to shut up tiresome rude people.

Oh, so now you're proposing that Doll or some other Russian shoot us "tiresome rude people"?  Is that what you're proposing -- violence to solve your problems, because you are not capable of winning any other way?  What a surprise.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 19, 2014, 01:24:29 PM
So the anti separatist concept is good enough for Russia but not good enough for Ukraine. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

If Mother Russia is such a paradise to belong to then there should be no need for the anti separation law as no one will want to leave!
I don't know what is "good enough" for Ukraine. Kaliningrad id Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 19, 2014, 01:27:46 PM
Do you even comprehend what you are saying?
Do you even comprehend it was the response to a joke?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 19, 2014, 01:30:25 PM
Oh, so now you're proposing that Doll or some other Russian shoot us "tiresome rude people"?  Is that what you're proposing -- violence to solve your problems, because you are not capable of winning any other way?  What a surprise.
Iraq and Syria.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 19, 2014, 05:20:38 PM
Yes, sure. I proposed the radical way to shut up tiresome rude people.

In my country the way you fight facts are with other facts.  But you can try and shut us up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 19, 2014, 05:51:43 PM
In my country the way you fight facts are with other facts.  But you can try and shut us up.
Facts from youtube :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 19, 2014, 05:59:47 PM
At least that beats pulling 'facts' out of thin air as you continue to do.  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 19, 2014, 06:51:38 PM
There is less than 100,000 people living on those islands.  When Russia returns to the chaotic days of the Soviet collapse, Japan will take back those Islands without firing a shot.  $ 500,000 in bribes should do it.
There is a LOT less than 100,000 people living there, but very few Japanese.   




Interesting but I don't think Japan is getting those islands back...maybe it has to be chalked up as a consequence of WWII.




Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 19, 2014, 07:13:45 PM
There are almost 600,000 people living in the Sakhalin Islands.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 20, 2014, 03:04:02 AM
The Russian defense budget is hostage to the price of oil.  They had a hard time supplying the when gas was climbing.  What do you think will happen now that gas is sustainably falling?


Another Soviet collapse?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 20, 2014, 04:19:01 AM
Lord, Europe lives on Russian gas, they are not idiots.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 20, 2014, 10:05:52 AM
Lord, Europe lives on Russian gas, they are not idiots.

This opinion piece in the Moscow Times suggests this will change...

Russia's Gas Monopoly Is Over

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-s-gas-monopoly-is-over/509740.html

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 20, 2014, 10:30:14 AM
Iraq and Syria.

This forum is about the Middle East? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 20, 2014, 10:36:29 AM
This opinion piece in the Moscow Times suggests this will change...

Russia's Gas Monopoly Is Over

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-s-gas-monopoly-is-over/509740.html

Brass

Both Ukraine and Poland already have plenty of natural gas, they just need American technical expertise to get it:


"Aside from heightening offshore competition, shale gas imperils Russia's European position because its political rivals are attempting to harness it for their own benefit. It is considered a national security interest in Ukraine and Poland, which possess some of the largest reserves on the continent. Ukraine's basins contain 20 times that country's annual gas demand, and Poland's — about 35 times."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 20, 2014, 11:11:43 AM
This forum is about the Middle East?
it is about "don't judge to not be judged".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 20, 2014, 11:17:28 AM
 :cluebat: Only if this is your picture!  :cluebat:


The title says ," More Bad news for Russia.."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 20, 2014, 01:08:48 PM
:cluebat: Only if this is your picture!  :cluebat:


The title says ," More Bad news for Russia.."
Sir. in the same thread somebody suggested an USAF airman to to Russia and fight against Ukraine.
What does HTIS have to do with the "title"?
People tend to do off topics.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 20, 2014, 01:17:18 PM
And you lead the way many times.. Even you have to honestly admit that bringing the middle east into this thread is streaching..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 20, 2014, 05:37:26 PM
Putler's Playbook! Stalin and Hitler v2.0

 An excerpt from Wiki about the 1939 Nazi-Soviet, "Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact,"



" It was only in 1989 that the Soviet authorities admitted the existence of the secret protocol of the Nazi-Soviet Pact. A concern about ethnic Ukrainians and Belarusians had been proffered as the reason for the Soviet invasion of Poland, rather than Soviet expansionism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...80%93Ribbentrop_Pact
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 20, 2014, 05:56:37 PM
Congratulations Doll! :clapping:

 You win the 'Kewpie Doll' award!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 21, 2014, 12:37:26 AM
Good article about how the Kremlin's proposed massive increase to the military budget will likely end up being money down the drain...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-ups-defense-spending-despite-slowdown/509741.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 21, 2014, 01:46:38 AM
Looks like a growing number of Russian men are trying to dodge the military draft so they don't end up being 'accidentally lost' across the border into Ukraine.

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrainian-fighting-causing-some-russians-to-seek-to-avoid-the-draft/

So much for the united front of patriotism back home in Mother Russia...
Have these draft dodgers no shame at all?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 21, 2014, 01:56:05 AM
' Better fled than dead?'  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 21, 2014, 02:07:59 AM
Looks like a growing number of Russian men are trying to dodge the military draft so they don't end up being 'accidentally lost' across the border into Ukraine.

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrainian-fighting-causing-some-russians-to-seek-to-avoid-the-draft/

So much for the united front of patriotism back home in Mother Russia...
Have these draft dodgers no shame at all?

Supposedly Russians are the big brothers and Ukrainians the little brothers; so those who refuse to fight in Ukraine against their Slavic brothers should actually be proud of their actions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 21, 2014, 04:01:36 PM
Another bite on the bum for the little guy...

U.S. to scrap trade deal on Russian steel duties


..."(Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Commerce will terminate a 15-year-old deal sheltering Russian flat-rolled steel producers from high import duties, it said in a letter to Russian authorities.

In the letter published on Monday, the United States gave Russia 60 days notice of the termination and said anti-dumping duties would then apply.

The so-called suspension agreement has sheltered Russian steelmakers from anti-dumping duties as high as 184.56 percent on hot-rolled, flat-rolled, carbon quality steel, instead setting a cap on imports and a minimum price"...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/21/us-usa-trade-steel-idUSKCN0IA1VW20141021

First world countries oughta be going through their books making sure that any of these sweetheart trade deals made to assist Russia way back when it was a civilized country are terminated.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 21, 2014, 04:12:31 PM

First world countries oughta be going through their books making sure that any of these sweetheart trade deals made to assist Russia way back when it was a civilized country are terminated.

Brass


And it's only going to get worse... :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 21, 2014, 09:04:24 PM
Lord, Europe lives on Russian gas, they are not idiots.

I agree with you except I do this k they are idiots.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 22, 2014, 11:09:12 AM
Russian stocks retreat:


http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-10-22/russia-stocks-gain-as-norilsk-advance-beats-steelmakers-decline
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 23, 2014, 05:10:29 PM
Russian officials tone down their rhetoric in the wake of the effects of the sanctions.  Perhaps Doll is wrong; Russians don't want to eat dirt after all!   :devil:


http://news.yahoo.com/russia-tones-down-rhetoric-economy-121500695.html?pt=BureoF3GVB
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 23, 2014, 06:22:33 PM
If they mix it with borsht it'll thin down to a tasty mud.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 23, 2014, 10:24:57 PM
Meanwhile Oil prices slip lower just like the ruble..  :clapping:  Win Win!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/10/22/russia-oil/17716263/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 23, 2014, 10:52:07 PM
Meanwhile Oil prices slip lower just like the ruble..  :clapping:  Win Win!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/10/22/russia-oil/17716263/

An interesting excerpt....

"German Gref, the chief of Russia's largest bank, Sberbank, went further when he pointed to ignorance of the laws of economic development as the cause of the Soviet Union's collapse. He further lashed out at the economy's dependence on oil and the government's repressive measures, saying at the forum, "You cannot motivate people through the Gulag."

In spite of additional revenues to the Russian budget due to the ruble's devaluation, mounting economic woes are taking their toll on average citizens and small businesses.

Consumer prices have risen by up to 28% for some goods since last year, Golovtsov, of UralSib, says, but salaries and pensions have not kept up. Retail turnover for electronics, cars and other goods has contracted because people have less money to spend due to inflation.

Falling consumer demand, in turn, is hurting small businesses. According to recent data from Cushman & Wakefield cited by Russia's RBC agency, at least 18 properties on Moscow's central Tverskaya Street that used to house shops and restaurants now stand empty.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 23, 2014, 11:42:55 PM
The new government in DNR and the LNR are hoping that 'Mother Russia" will step up and help then financially to rebuild their new republics..  LMAO just like Krym is waiting for their new bug ruble pensions.

 Keep waiting in the line.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 24, 2014, 09:53:34 AM
Nobody wants Russian assets except for maybe professional contrarian investors:


 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-24/ruble-extends-drop-as-bank-of-russia-raises-band-amid-s-p-woes.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 24, 2014, 12:53:46 PM
Nobody wants Russian assets except for maybe professional contrarian investors:


 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-24/ruble-extends-drop-as-bank-of-russia-raises-band-amid-s-p-woes.html

Professional contrarian investors plus our esteemed RWD member Doll!


Anyone can keep dollars, I can buy anything there. Now it is a very good time for buying real estate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 26, 2014, 09:10:22 PM
Finance Minister: Russia Needs Backup Budget For Worst-Case Scenario
By Delphine d'Amora Oct. 24 2014 15:48

Russia must create a contingency budget to counter the threat that Western sanctions, economic stagnation and low oil prices will dash the country's hopes of restoring growth in the near term, Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said Friday.

“A budget cannot constantly have expenses that were drafted in a different economic reality. We must always have another version in case times like these continue,” Siluanov said in a speech to Russia's lower house of parliament, the State Duma, news agency RIA Novosti reported.

The latest budget for 2015-17, which faced its first reading in the State Duma on Friday, is based on the optimistic forecast that sanctions will ease and oil prices next year will average $100 per barrel. The budget predicts GDP growth of 1.2 percent next year, 2.3 percent next year and 3 percent in 2016.

This scenario looks increasingly far-fetched: Economic growth has crashed in 2014, with a recent World Bank forecast predicting growth of 0.5 for this year, 0.3 percent next year and 0.4 percent in 2016. Western sanctions on Moscow over its actions in Ukraine show no sign of letting up and the price of Brent crude oil — the global benchmark — was at $86 per barrel on Friday amid a global supply glut that will likely keep prices depressed in the short term.

Siluanov has criticized the budget before. At an investment summit late last month he called the budget's forecast “optimistic” and said Russia “will have to try very hard to ensure the planned growth rates,” Reuters reported.

Experts polled by The Moscow Times noted previously that the 2015-17 budget is crippled by new expenses and past promises that are now too exorbitant to fulfill, including the cost of supporting Crimea — which Russia annexed from Ukraine in March — and the state's massive $700 billion rearmament program.

Lower budget revenues led to a controversial decision earlier this year to use contributions to privately managed pension funds to fill gaps in the state budget for the second year in a row. The move was heavily criticized by economists, who said that it will both increase the state's future spending obligations and deprive nascent markets of strong institutional investors.

Siluanov on Friday also asked Russian lawmakers for permission to use, if necessary, up to 500 billion rubles ($12 billion) from the government's Reserve Fund, an oil-revenue-funded piggy bank, to fulfill spending obligations next year.

“We created [the fund] for this, and there are now more than 3 trillion rubles [$72 billion] in the Reserve Fund,” RIA Novosti quoted Siluanov as saying.

At the same time, the minister warned that the fund is “not infinite” and urged lawmakers to optimize government programs and bring state spending in line with the budget's limitations. Finance Minister: Russia Needs Backup Budget For Worst-Case Scenario | Business | The Moscow Times
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 26, 2014, 11:21:52 PM
More of Russia's brightest entrepreneurs leaving the country for greener pastures.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-10-26/russia-brain-drain-saps-talent-as-sanctions-hit-financing#p1

In a way Russia is facing the perfect storm; growing brain drain, WM taking away attractive RW for wives, and the civil opposition fleeing into exile.

Soon there may only be the dumb, the ugly and the loyal left in the country...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 26, 2014, 11:30:41 PM
More of Russia's brightest entrepreneurs leaving the country for greener pastures.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-10-26/russia-brain-drain-saps-talent-as-sanctions-hit-financing#p1

In a way Russia is facing the perfect storm; growing brain drain, WM taking away attractive RW for wives, and the civil opposition fleeing into exile.

Soon there may only be the dumb, the ugly and the loyal left in the country...

And with the declining population due to early deaths and low birth rates, Huilotin  will be getting lonely.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 26, 2014, 11:32:56 PM
And with the declining population due to early deaths and low birth rates, Huilotin  will be getting lonely.

Nah.  He's going to have plenty of company from his new "allies" the Chinese. 


 :shock:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 27, 2014, 12:19:59 AM
China has the largest slave labor population in the world based on Stalin's camps.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 27, 2014, 01:42:56 AM
The regime wants to have sanctions lifted but don't want to loose face asking for it.
Now Doll's analogy about how Russians would 'rather eat dirt and be proud' totally makes sense now...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-is-trying-to-end-sanctions-and-save-face/510066.html

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on October 27, 2014, 08:01:53 AM
The regime wants to have sanctions lifted but don't want to loose face asking for it.
Now Doll's analogy about how Russians would 'rather eat dirt and be proud' totally makes sense now...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-is-trying-to-end-sanctions-and-save-face/510066.html


The sanctions in combination with $85/bbl Brent oil evidently are hurting Russia's economy.


I assert the decline in oil prices is the major factor, and oil prices will not rise in the near future.   The sanctions exacerbate an already worsening economy.   

At the beginning of the year, Putin may have been singing the Rolling Stones' song:

               Time is on my side, yes it is
               Now you always say
               That you want to be free
               But you'll come running back (said you would baby)
               You'll come running back (I said so many times before)
               You'll come running back to me

Yet the clock is also working against Putin. 


Tick...tock...tick...tick...tock...tick...tock

Russians will not suffer as much as Ukrainians; however, life will not be a walk in the park.   There is so much on the table for discussion and trading if the parties would turn to diplomacy.  Ukraine needs gas....Russia needs gas revenue in a buyer's market....Crimea needs logistics from Ukraine....the ceasefire needs to continue....

For sure there was never a need to escalate the military conflict.


Tick...tock...tick...tick...tock...tick...tock

 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 27, 2014, 11:50:12 AM
Oil Just Slipped below $80 USD per Barrel

 Oil prices were plummeting again on Monday, slipping below US$80 dollars per barrel as worries mount about too much oil finding too few buyers over the next several months or longer.

Monday’s sell-off was triggered by fresh estimates from a big Wall Street bank suggesting oil prices will continue their free fall into winter, landing eventually in the mid-$70 range through the first half of next year.

Wall Street heavyweight Goldman Sachs cut its price estimate on WTI, or Western Texas Intermediate oil, to $75/barrel from $90 through mid-2015 on Monday while making a similarly downbeat revision to its expectations for Brent crude.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1637465/oil-just-slipped-below-80-and-its-expected-to-fall-further/

 tick tock tick tock  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 27, 2014, 01:29:19 PM

 Oil prices were plummeting again on Monday, slipping below US$80 dollars per barrel as worries mount about too much oil finding too few buyers over the next several months or longer.


Oh dear! That doesn't look promising for the Russian state budget.
Looks like Putin's military will have to put up with using Soviet-era equipment for just a wee bit longer!  :devilish:

Fireworks and national holiday in Ukraine, the Baltics and Poland when this day finally comes?
http://www.inquisitr.com/1562615/does-vladimir-putin-have-cancer/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 27, 2014, 04:42:04 PM
Oil Just Slipped below $80 USD per Barrel

 Oil prices were plummeting again on Monday, slipping below US$80 dollars per barrel as worries mount about too much oil finding too few buyers over the next several months or longer.

Monday’s sell-off was triggered by fresh estimates from a big Wall Street bank suggesting oil prices will continue their free fall into winter, landing eventually in the mid-$70 range through the first half of next year.

Wall Street heavyweight Goldman Sachs cut its price estimate on WTI, or Western Texas Intermediate oil, to $75/barrel from $90 through mid-2015 on Monday while making a similarly downbeat revision to its expectations for Brent crude.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1637465/oil-just-slipped-below-80-and-its-expected-to-fall-further/

 tick tock tick tock  :clapping:

This is the most effective thing we have done.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 27, 2014, 05:07:38 PM
Once again... Who is this "we" that you keep referring to?  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 27, 2014, 08:11:44 PM
Once again... Who is this "we" that you keep referring to?  :rolleyes:

Not you
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 28, 2014, 12:03:57 AM
More bad news for Russia

Ruble Rally Short-Lived as Historic Falls Resume

Modest gains for Russia's beleaguered currency were rapidly reversed Monday as the ruble dropped to new record lows amid speculation that the Central Bank might abandon its policy of spending foreign reserves to slow the currency's decline.

The ruble dropped 34 kopeks against the U.S. dollar Monday, touching a bottom of 42.28 in the early evening in Moscow. The currency has lost more than 25 percent of its value against the greenback this year, and over 16 percent in the last three months alone.

A small bounce for the ruble following Standard & Poor's decision last week not to downgrade Russia's sovereign debt rating to junk status were quickly erased despite the monthly tax period when Russian companies are obliged to convert foreign currency into rubles.

"If ever the omens were right for a ruble recovery today was the day," said Tom Levinson, chief currency strategist at Sberbank CIB. "The fact that it has fallen very sharply is telling."

Expectations have been growing that the Russian Central Bank may scale back its support for the ruble, on which it has spent over $20 billion defending this month alone.

"The Central Bank is currently falling foul of a circular argument: It is intervening to smooth ruble losses but at the same time burning through reserves gives the market a reason to sell," Levinson said in written comments.

The regulator currently uses a 9-ruble-wide trading corridor as a guide for slowing the ruble's decline, but has said repeatedly it will implement a free floating currency in 2015. Foreign reserves are committed by the Central Bank when the ruble exceeds the corridor's limits, and for every $350 million spent the corridor is shifted by 5 kopeks.

"Despite its current weakness the ruble is still expensive and does not reflect the recent fall in oil prices and obligation to repay roughly $100bn of external debt by the private sector in 2015," said Alexei Pogorelov, chief economist at Credit Suisse in Moscow.

Squeezed out of U.S. and European Union capital markets after Western sanctions on Moscow, experts predict that Russian companies will struggle to refinance debts over the next eighteen months in a slow-motion credit crunch.

The Central Bank could hike interest rates and abandon its intervention mechanism, which would be a "big surprise" for the market, Credit Suisse said in a research note Monday.

The Central Bank is due to meet for its monthly policy meeting Friday.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said last week that Russia would not "unthinkingly burn through its [foreign currency] reserves."

Other pressures on the ruble Monday included Ukrainian parliamentary elections results in which pro-Western parties recorded a strong showing, prompting fears of a further deterioration in relations between Kiev and Moscow.

Oil prices, which have been volatile in recent weeks, dropped sharply Monday. United States crude oil prices fell below $80 a barrel for the first time in 28 months, while the Brent oil global benchmark sank to under $85 a barrel, approaching four year lows recorded earlier in October.

The Russian Central Bank confirmed Monday that it will offer $3.5 billion in foreign currency auctions on Oct. 29 and Oct. 30 in a bid to ease the demand for dollars.

The ruble's steady slide this year amid a falling oil price and tensions over Ukraine has so far failed to produce any sign of panic among Russian households, but a survey published Monday indicated there was rising concern over the issue.

The currency's dynamic is now worrying 45 percent of Russians, compared with 26 percent of the population 16 months earlier, according the independent pollster Levada Center. The survey had a 3.4 percent margin of error.

And there are few indications that an end to the ruble's weakness is in sight.

Without any serious oil price fluctuations, the Russian currency should find equilibrium between 43 and 45 rubles to the dollar, according to Credit Suisse estimates.

"Forty-two rubles against the dollar has already been achieved, and the 45 against the dollar level is now in the market's sights," Igor Zelentsov, a senior trader at Globex Bank, said in a note Monday.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/510147.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 28, 2014, 03:12:23 AM
The regime wants to have sanctions lifted but don't want to loose face asking for it.
Now Doll's analogy about how Russians would 'rather eat dirt and be proud' totally makes sense now...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-is-trying-to-end-sanctions-and-save-face/510066.html

excerpt
"Both strategies create a "discourse trap" for Moscow. Success depends on the West buying into Russia's "victimhood narrative." A big if."


Poor Russia the "victim" of the West yet again.  Would you like some salt and pepper with that dirt, Doll?   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 28, 2014, 03:38:19 AM
This one is bad news for freedom of the press in Russia, which of course means good news for Putin.

Putin loyalists poised to grab newspaper as Foreign Owners Ousted

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/kremlin-closes-in-on-russia-s-last-foreign-owned-newspaper/509584.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 28, 2014, 03:55:10 AM
Ukraine uncovers plot to create peoples republic of Odessa:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/ukraine-says-it-uncovered-plot-to-create-people-s-republic-in-odessa/510177.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 28, 2014, 04:23:52 AM
Sometimes when reality becomes too dire, sticking one's head in the sand remains the only option!

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-passes-draft-budget-based-on-an-alternative-economic-reality-2014-10
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 28, 2014, 11:17:33 AM
The regime wants to have sanctions lifted but don't want to loose face asking for it.
Now Doll's analogy about how Russians would 'rather eat dirt and be proud' totally makes sense now...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-is-trying-to-end-sanctions-and-save-face/510066.html
Correct. Russians never yield.
Here the quote of your link
Quote
One is to evade engagement on Western roadmaps for sanction relief in exchange for Russia's full implementation of the Minsk Protocol in eastern Ukraine. Western terms, made public by U.S. and European Union officials, include complete withdrawal of Russian forces from eastern Ukraine, restoration of Ukraine's sovereignty and control over its border.

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov made clear that Russia would not get into such horse-trading and would not ask for sanction relief, fearing this could be interpreted as a sign of Putin's vulnerability.

Nor will Moscow re-engage the West on important issues without a clear commitment to lift sanctions. In Paris last week, Lavrov brushed off U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry's overtures for new talks on nuclear arms control and even later disavowed his private promise to Kerry to resume intelligence-sharing on the Islamic State. Lavrov called Kerry's cherry-picking approach "consumerist," implying that without sanction relief, re-engagement would be Russia's unilateral concession to Washington.

The second strategy is to bamboozle the West with talk about "the new world order" and the need for a new "consensus of responsible powers." By elevating the discussion to a geopolitical level, Moscow seeks to create a framework that would allow it to claim a "strategic win" that justified "small concessions" on Ukraine to get sanctions lifted. This was Putin's offer at the Valdai conference, his bluster masking a desperation to save face.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 28, 2014, 12:07:18 PM
Sometimes when reality becomes too dire, sticking one's head in the sand remains the only option!

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-passes-draft-budget-based-on-an-alternative-economic-reality-2014-10


 Good Catch SleepyCat!  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 28, 2014, 12:14:20 PM
Sleepy, the quoted BS is written by Krylov

 
Quote
ЗЛОЙ ГЕНИЙ ЛЕВОГО КРЫЛА КПРФ

Posted on Декабрь 21, 2013   by Межпартийная Группа Октябрь-большевики    
 

Сегодня мы поведём речь о достаточно известном, во всяком случае в определённых кругах, и уважаемом деятеле. Причём, влияние его, особенно среди левых, когда-либо имевших отношение к КПРФ, — а ныне выходцев из КПРФ немало в «Левом фронте», «Коммунисты России» вообще состоят из них почти целиком, некоторая часть бывших членов КПРФ в Москве и других регионах присоединилась к «РОТ Фронту», и это не говоря о Межрегиональном объединении коммунистов, — столь велико, что его не только числят одним из вождей левого (марксистского) крыла КПРФ (и, пожалуй, виднейшим теоретиком этого крыла), но и записывают во «враги народа» тех, кто осмеливается этого деятеля критиковать.

 

Речь — об Александре Фролове. Фролов Александр Константинович — советский и российский журналист, партийный деятель, один из основателей КПРФ, член редколлегии газеты «Советская Россия«; в советские годы трудился в журнале «Коммунист» под руководством Р.И.Косолапова, в дальнейшем — депутат «Государственной думы РФ» первого созыва (1993 — 1995 годы), член Президиума ЦК КПРФ до 2008 года, член ЦК КПРФ до 2013 года (не избран в ЦК на XV партийном съезде); по собственным словам — автор по меньшей мере одной из книг, якобы принадлежащих перу Зюганова. Выпускник Философского факультета МГУ им. М.В.Ломоносова, во время учёбы специализировался по вопросам языкознания: «Курсовую я написал про Хомского. Получил пять. Дипломную- тоже про него Еще раз пять и рекомендацию в аспирантуру. Кадндидтскую написал тоже про генеративную грамматику того же Хомского«.

Статьи Фролова регулярно размещаются на ресурсах коммунистов, в последние годы подошедших к решению порвать с КПРФ (один из примеров: http://com-stol.ru/?p=12112, — с сайта московского отделения «Межрегионального объединения коммунистов«; другой пример: http://www.com-piter.ru/7983.html, — с сайта ленинградского отделения той же организации). Нашим читателям Александр Константинович тоже уже знаком, — его творчества мы касались, разбирая вопрос о манипуляции сознанием коммунистов.

 
http://octbol.wordpress.com/2013/12/21/p94/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 28, 2014, 12:47:07 PM
I think to appear fair and balanced, a new thread titled 'More Good News for Russia should be started for which Doll can link articles which are optimistic about the direction of the Russian economy. Then we can all discuss whether these articles have any merits or are complete BS.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 28, 2014, 04:13:18 PM
Complete BS.  Russia is headed for a repeat of 1998.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 28, 2014, 04:37:17 PM
Complete BS.  Russia is headed for a repeat of 1998.

 Or possibly worse..

 It's time to change horses in the middle of the stream. This one is dying.  :deadhorse:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 29, 2014, 03:14:48 AM




Losses of Russian banks in Ukraine reach $12.5 bln


KYIV, October 29 /Ukrinform/. Estimates of losses from the realization of direct and indirect risks of Russian banks in Ukraine are growing, ITAR-TASS has reported, citing Kommersant.
According to the newspaper, major banks reported a new scale of problems at the government level, a conservative estimate - $25 billion, and a realistic estimate - $12.5 billion.
"Realistic" losses could be compensated for through the conversion of state support received by the banks in the last crisis, but in this case Russian banks will have no capital reserves to increase lending, reads the report.
Estimates of the total size of losses of Russian banks in Ukraine were given at a closed meeting held last Monday in the office of Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev with the participation of major banks, the newspaper reported, citing several sources in the banking market.
ap
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 29, 2014, 03:22:11 AM
Good News For The Rest Of The World?

Putin Has Cancer. He Has Three Years Left - US Media

28.10.2014 16:58
News outlets from Belarus to Poland have reported for months that the Russian strongman has cancer of the spinal cord. But the author of the article, Richard Johnson, says it's pancreatic cancer, one of the most lethal forms of the disease, Censor.NET reports.

As put by the author, Putin has three years to live and wants to leave a legacy of expanding the Russian borders just like Peter the Great or Stalin. This is why he is so in hurry with invading Ukraine, Richard Johnson wrote.


According to PageSix, Putin is allegedly being treated by an elderly doctor from the old East Germany whom Putin met decades ago while serving in Dresden for the KGB. "The doctor has been trying various treatments including steroid shots, which would explain Putin's puffy appearance.

"The physician, who is 84 years old, quit recently, confiding that he hated coming to Russia and was always mistreated by Putin's security detail."



Johnson cites Сrispin Black, the British army veteran who reports on terrorism and intelligence, that Putin's pardon and release of his former crony Mikhail Khodorkovsky, after 10 years in prison, was an ominous sign.

"Some have suggested [Putin] is clearing his conscience," Black wrote.

Source — en.censor.net.ua
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 29, 2014, 07:32:32 AM
Good News For The Rest Of The World?

Putin Has Cancer. He Has Three Years Left - US Media


If there is a grain of truth to this, then... :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Will his corpse be embalmed and put on display like that of his idols Lenin and Stalin?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 29, 2014, 07:54:54 AM
Split in Russian: clans around Putin began to fight

Раскол в России: кланы в окружении Путина начали борьбу - Bloomberg
Odessa Daily
29 октября 2014 в 09:45 РекламаСкачать журнал STYLE
Борьба в ближайшем окружении Президента Российской Федерации Владимира Путина замедляет принятие решений
Раскол в России: кланы в окружении Путина начали борьбу - Bloomberg
Об этом со ссылкой на источники, близкие к Путину, пишет американское агентство Bloomberg.

В то время, как сам президент сосредоточен на внешней политике, соперничающие группы борются за влияние и заняты внутренними проблемами, рассказали агентству анонимные источники.

Одна группа, в центре которой премьер-министр Дмитрий Медведев, обеспокоена усилением отчуждения России от мировой финансовой системы. Другая, которая включает в себя руководителей государственных компаний, таких как Игорь Сечин (директор компании «Роснефть»), и ветеранов спецслужб, выступает за усиление государственного контроля над российской экономикой.

«Правящая элита России будет биться в конвульсиях, тогда как экономика кренится в сторону рецессии, рубль колеблется вблизи рекордно низкого уровня, а конфликт в Украине толкает страну еще глубже в противостояние с США и их союзниками. С нефтью, крупнейшей статьей российского экспорта, подешевевшей до 27-месячного минимума, и банками, которые все чаще обращаются к государству за финансированием, остается все меньше денег в обращении», – пишет Bloomberg.

В связи с падением цен на нефть рубль продолжает обесцениваться. Впрочем, как считают аналитики издания Financial Times, операции Центробанка смогут удержать страну на сносном уровне не дольше, чем до конца года.
http://odessa-daily.com.ua/news/raskol-v-rossii-klany-v-okruzhenii-putina-nachali-borbu-bloomberg-id70854.html


Fighting in the entourage of the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin slows decision-making

Split in Russian: clans around Putin began to fight - Bloomberg
This is with reference to the sources close to Putin, says US agency Bloomberg. At that time, as the president is focused on foreign policy, rival groups vie for influence and beset by internal problems, told the agency anonymous sources. One group, the center of which the Prime -Minister Dmitry Medvedev, Russia is concerned about growing alienation from the global financial system. Other, which includes the heads of state-owned companies, such as Igor Sechin (director of "Rosneft"), and veterans of special services, supports the strengthening of state control over the Russian economy. "The ruling elite of Russia will convulse, while the economy lurches toward recession, the ruble fluctuates near record lows, and the conflict in Ukraine is pushing the country deeper into a confrontation with the US and its allies. With oil, the largest item of Russian exports, depreciating to 27-month low, and banks that are increasingly turning to the state for funding, there is less money in circulation "- writes Bloomberg. Due to the fall in oil prices ruble continues to depreciate. However, analysts say the edition Financial Times, the operation of the Central Bank will be able to keep the country tolerably not longer than until the end of the year.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 29, 2014, 07:58:19 AM
While Ukraine is trying to negotiate visa-free travel with the EU, Russia on the other hand is discussing a visa-free regime with North Korea!

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-and-north-korea-discuss-visa-free-regime/510222.html

Talking about having to scrape the bottom of the barrel...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 29, 2014, 10:03:06 AM
I think to appear fair and balanced, a new thread titled 'More Good News for Russia should be started for which Doll can link articles which are optimistic about the direction of the Russian economy. Then we can all discuss whether these articles have any merits or are complete BS.
It would be just waste if time. There IS such a thread on Russian forum. You go and read it.
Your quote was a complete BS though.
I am old enough to remember at LEAST 6 hard periods in Russia (USSR). We survived and we will now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 29, 2014, 10:32:39 AM
It would be just waste if time. There IS such a thread on Russian forum. You go and read it.
Your quote was a complete BS though.
I am old enough to remember at LEAST 6 hard periods in Russia (USSR). We survived and we will now.

 WAs the first hard period called the Bolshevik Revolution??   :popcorn:   (joke)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 29, 2014, 01:01:33 PM
Ruble Weakens to Record on Concern Russia to Expedite Free Float
 

By Vladimir Kuznetsov  Oct 28, 2014 7:45 AM GMT-0800   

 

The ruble weakened to a record for the fifth day on concern Russia will quicken its move to a free float after more than $20 billion of interventions this month failed to halt the depreciation.

The currency slid 0.6 percent to 47.7112 against the central bank’s target dollar-euro basket by 6 p.m. in Moscow, bringing this year’s decline to 19 percent .  :clapping:
Ten-year government bond yields approached five-year highs as the Finance Ministry said it was scrapping its third straight debt auction.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-28/ruble-weakens-to-record-on-concern-russia-to-expedite-free-float.html?cmpid=yhoo

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 29, 2014, 01:57:02 PM
It would be just waste if time. There IS such a thread on Russian forum. You go and read it.
Your quote was a complete BS though.
I am old enough to remember at LEAST 6 hard periods in Russia (USSR). We survived and we will now.

You mean you are old enough to remember 6 self-contrived hard periods in Russia and the Soviet Union?  Only Russia (and the former Soviet Union) takes being a rotten apple member of the international community to such lows while simultaneously blaming the international community for their own self-contrived suffering.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 29, 2014, 02:57:12 PM
Its fun to pick on Doll until you realize that 140 million people just like her have nukes and sit on the UN security council.

Fun with Lemmings
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 29, 2014, 03:47:40 PM
Tick Tock
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: I/O on October 29, 2014, 04:37:20 PM
We survived and we will now.
Doll, I've stayed out of these stupid debates for the most part as, you are correct, they are fruitless. There are around about 400 odd pages of accusation and counter accusation on a few well frequented forums at the moment and all of it could have been summed up like this - If a Russian had said, I don't like Americas current foreign policy, and a Westerner had said, I don't like Russias current foreign policy - we would be at the same place we are now. 
 
Of course Russia will survive and it is only the crackpots who wish otherwise but what won't survive in the longer term is Putin or the current policies because the cold hard reality is Russia can't afford either. Putinism and current policies might go on for as much as another 10 or 20 years and then it will be back to the future. History tells us all that, especially those of you who have lived through those "hard periods".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 29, 2014, 07:07:16 PM
And yet, here we all are . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 29, 2014, 07:34:46 PM
Who would have thought the Kremlin is that touchy regarding rumours of the president's health.
http://news.yahoo.com/putin-spokesman-tells-press-shut-trap-cancer-rumours-142456182.html

In a normal country rumours about terminal illness of its leader typically send its stock market lower; but in the case of Russia rumours about Putin's imminent demise could actually give its stock market a big boost!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on October 29, 2014, 10:06:58 PM
Russia has chosen its own isolation, by behaving in a way that leads to mistrust. So if there are now hard times in Russia because the West doesn't want to do business with Russia, it is because Russia has been lying about its involvement in Ukraine. It is also because Russia is acting like Ukraine is their possession. Putin has no intention of honoring the political choices that the majority of Ukrainians have made. If the leader of a powerful country acts like a bully, he is the one to blame for hard economic times. I also blame the people who support him. What qualities are we suppose to like about him? Are we suppose to like the way he has encouraged brother to fight against brother in Ukraine? Are we supposed to like his paranoia about NATO? Are we supposed to like the way he crushes free speech?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 29, 2014, 10:41:01 PM
Beware of an old man in a hurry
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 30, 2014, 01:08:45 AM
Russia has chosen its own isolation, by behaving in a way that leads to mistrust. So if there are now hard times in Russia because the West doesn't want to do business with Russia, it is because Russia has been lying about its involvement in Ukraine. It is also because Russia is acting like Ukraine is their possession. Putin has no intention of honoring the political choices that the majority of Ukrainians have made. If the leader of a powerful country acts like a bully, he is the one to blame for hard economic times. I also blame the people who support him. What qualities are we suppose to like about him? Are we suppose to like the way he has encouraged brother to fight against brother in Ukraine? Are we supposed to like his paranoia about NATO? Are we supposed to like the way he crushes free speech?

+100
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 30, 2014, 11:58:51 AM
Activist for soldiers rights jailed:


http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/soldiers-rights-activist-jailed-russia-26293213
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 30, 2014, 12:08:05 PM
Ukrainian female pilot held in Russian psychiatric unit runs for office back in Ukraine:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11187920/Ukraine-war-hero-fights-election-from-Russian-psychiatric-ward.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 30, 2014, 01:28:06 PM
Ruble Weakens to Record on Concern Russia to Expedite Free Float
 

By Vladimir Kuznetsov  Oct 28, 2014 7:45 AM GMT-0800   

 

The ruble weakened to a record for the fifth day on concern Russia will quicken its move to a free float after more than $20 billion of interventions this month failed to halt the depreciation.

The currency slid 0.6 percent to 47.7112 against the central bank’s target dollar-euro basket by 6 p.m. in Moscow, bringing this year’s decline to 19 percent .  :clapping:
Ten-year government bond yields approached five-year highs as the Finance Ministry said it was scrapping its third straight debt auction.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-28/ruble-weakens-to-record-on-concern-russia-to-expedite-free-float.html?cmpid=yhoo
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 30, 2014, 01:30:08 PM
Tick Tock
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 30, 2014, 05:10:14 PM
Groundhog Day in Moscow as Russia seizes another privatized oil company

by Geoffrey Smith  October 30, 2014, 12:30 PM EDT


Echoes of Yukos affair as a lucrative oil company is seized on a point of law that had been ignored for 10 years.

A Russian court ruled to seize the shares of Bashneft, one of the country?s largest oil companies, effectively renationalizing it and overturning an allegedly fraudulent privatization whose results had stood for over 10 years.

The case has sent shivers through Russia?s business community, a fresh reminder that the ownership of the country?s biggest industrial assets still isn?t safe, nearly two decades after they were sold in frequently flawed or corrupt privatizations.

The case has been compared to the nationalization of Yukos in 2004 over alleged tax evasion and fraud by its owner, Mkihail Khodorkovsky. The politically ambitious Khodorkovsky, who was Russia?s richest man at the time, was subsequently jailed for 10 years, before being given a conditional release at the end of last year.

His company, meanwhile, was sold off, indirectly, to the then state-owned company OAO Rosneft for a song. Rosneft is now chaired by Igor Sechin, who had directed the campaign against Khodorkovsky from his position as deputy chief of staff at the Kremlin.

Bashneft is majority-owned by the London-listed conglomerate OAO AFK Sistema, whose billionaire head Vladimir Evtushenkov is currently under house arrest on charges of money laundering. He denies the charges and has said he will contest them.

Sistema had built a controlling stake in Bashneft with two acquisitions in 2005 and 2009. For $2.5 billion, it bought Bashneft and other energy companies with lucrative local monopolies from vehicles controlled by Ural Rakhimov, the son of the then-president of Bashkortostan, the company?s home region.

Rosneft says it?s not interested in buying Bashneft, but it would be an attractive source of cash for a company in Rosneft?s position. Rosneft is heavily indebted and is shut out of western markets by western sanctions. It has to repay $14 billion by February. Last week, it asked the Finance Ministry for $50 billion from Russia?s National Welfare Fund to help it with its debt repayments, but was rebuffed.

Although perceived as one of the most corrupt regions in the country, Rakhimov senior had been tolerated by President Vladimir Putin for years, even after scrapping elections for regional leaders and making them accountable only to him. Rakhimov ultimately resigned early from his third term in 2010.

Prosecutors allege that the sale of the state?s interest in Bashneft to Rakhimov junior?s companies had been illegal, a view endorsed ahead of the trial in a recent interview by a Rosneft spokesman.

The privatization had, however, received all the necessary state approvals at the time. Sistema had in turn also received the approval of federal regulators when buying the company.

Paradoxically, Sistema?s depositary receipts rose 14% in London on the news, mainly because the court didn?t immediately confiscate some $4.5 billion in dividends that Bashneft and the Bashkir energy companies had paid Sistema since 2009. They?re still down 74% year-to-date.

However, the news agency Interfax quoted an official as saying that the return of illegally seized assets ?will go progressively and in stages.?

The case has been seen in Moscow as another sign of the ascendancy of policy ?hawks? such as Sechin over more liberal figures such as Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev. Medvedev was quoted by ITAR-TASS as saying that: ?Entrepreneurs definitely should not live in an atmosphere of fear?Businessmen of good faith must be under the protection of the law, they have to be protected and encouraged as much as possible.?

Sistema, whose biggest other asset is a stake in NYSE-listed mobile carrier OAO Mobile TeleSystems ( MBT 5.95% )  , said Thursday its individual units continue to operate as normal, but said the ?ongoing litigation could have a significant negative impact? on its own financial condition and obligations.

It has a month to appeal the ruling.

http://fortune.com/2014/10/30/groundhog-day-in-moscow-as-russia-seizes-another-privatized-oil-company/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 30, 2014, 05:34:06 PM
The cancer is eating itself. Soon it may vanish.  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on October 30, 2014, 05:58:04 PM
More on the Bashneft/Sistema story:

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-court-orders-seizure-oligarchs-oil-stake-131057014.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 31, 2014, 09:20:43 AM
The ruble plunged a day after posting its biggest gain since at least 2003 as Russia refrained from adopting the more aggressive foreign-exchange policy that traders had anticipated following this year’s 20 percent rout.

The currency slid 2.8 percent to 47.8130 versus the central bank’s dollar-euro basket at 4:35 p.m. in Moscow and is on course for a 7.4 percent drop this month, the most since May 2012. The ruble surged yesterday as banks including Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Commerzbank AG expected a shift away from the fixed trading-band policy that allows traders to profit from keeping short positions and betting on further depreciation.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-31/ruble-set-for-worst-month-in-2-years-before-russia-rate-decision.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 31, 2014, 11:20:25 AM
Kordakovsky was a very, very bad man.  I wonder how jail changed him if at all.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 31, 2014, 12:04:30 PM
Kordakovsky was a very, very bad man.  I wonder how jail changed him if at all.

???
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 01, 2014, 10:52:10 PM
I would hate to be the guy who drove a snowplow into this airplane:


http://fortune.com/2014/10/21/what-happens-when-you-get-drunk-and-kill-putins-friend-with-your-snowplow/?xid=tab_rss
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 02, 2014, 11:05:52 AM
Russian banks in Ukraine may lose $ 25 billion

Losses from direct and indirect risks of the Russian banks in Ukraine may amount to $ 25 bn, The Komersant says Oct. 29, quoting its banking market sources.

The estimate figured at last Monday's closed session Premier Medvedev held with the representatives of major Russian banks.

According to one source, the total loss may amount to $ 25 bn.

However, another source assumed that a more realistic figure is $ 12.5 bn.

The losses include credits to Russian companies operating in Ukraine and credits to Ukrainian clients, Komersant sources say.
http://zik.ua/en/news/2014/10/29/russian_banks_in_ukraine_may_lose_25_billion_535934
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 02, 2014, 11:56:50 AM
Banking 01.11.2014 Deutsche Welle
Russian central bank ups main lending rate

The Bank of Russia said Friday it was raising its benchmark lending rate to 9.5 percent, with the measure to take effect on November 5. Following a board meeting in the morning, executives confirmed the rate would go up by 150 basis points, bringing the cumulative increase to 400 basis points this year.

The central bank had been under enormous pressure to raise rates to defend a continuously sliding ruble, which had lost about 20 percent against the US dollar since July, not least as a result of Western sanctions against the country over the Kremlin's involvement in the Ukraine conflict.

The bank said it was concerned about inflation reaching 8.4 percent towards the end of October. It added it didn't expect inflation do drop below 8 percent before the end of the first quarter next year.

Short-lived ruble rally

"If external conditions improve, the bank will be ready to start easing monetary policy again," the lender said in a statement.

It noted that economic growth would be close to zero in the fourth quarter, with no significant changes in sight for the first three months of 2015.

Following the announcement of the lending rate hike, the ruble firmed briefly and trimmed losses from earlier in the trading session before falling back into negative territory.
http://www.dw.de/russian-central-ban...ate/a-18032266
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 02, 2014, 01:27:00 PM
Russian banks in Ukraine may lose $ 25 billion

Losses from direct and indirect risks of the Russian banks in Ukraine may amount to $ 25 bn, The Komersant says Oct. 29, quoting its banking market sources.

The estimate figured at last Monday's closed session Premier Medvedev held with the representatives of major Russian banks.

According to one source, the total loss may amount to $ 25 bn.

However, another source assumed that a more realistic figure is $ 12.5 bn.

The losses include credits to Russian companies operating in Ukraine and credits to Ukrainian clients, Komersant sources say.
http://zik.ua/en/news/2014/10/29/russian_banks_in_ukraine_may_lose_25_billion_535934

Fwiw, there are Sberbank branches in Bila Tserkva.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 10:39:58 AM
Germany may propose tougher sanctions against Russia

03.11.2014 | 17:07
Germany may put forward proposals to toughen sanctions against Russia in the wake of Moscow’s declaration that it would recognize Sunday’s elections in the breakaway districts of the Donbas in Ukraine.

German government spokesman Steffen Seibert said in Berlin on Monday that the possibility of lifting sanctions against Russia for its annexation of the Ukrainian territory of Crimea and fueling the insurgency in the Donbas is now off the table.

He said the elections were a breach of the Minsk agreements on ending the Donbas conflict, and Berlin does not understand an official statement from Moscow regarding its recognition of the "voting," organized by the separatists, German broadcaster Deutsche Welle reported.

"If the situation deteriorates, it may be necessary to step up sanctions on Russia," Seibert said.

Earlier, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement saying that Russia respects the choice made by residents of the southeast and is ready to contribute further to the solution of the Ukrainian crisis.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics...-against-russia.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 10:52:04 AM

He said the elections were a breach of the Minsk agreements on ending the Donbas conflict, and Berlin does not understand an official statement from Moscow regarding its recognition of the "voting," organized by the separatists, German broadcaster Deutsche Welle reported.

"If the situation deteriorates, it may be necessary to step up sanctions on Russia," Seibert said.

Earlier, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement saying that Russia respects the choice made by residents of the southeast and is ready to contribute further to the solution of the Ukrainian crisis.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics...-against-russia.html

I'm surprised because it's no small amount of trade which Germany does with Russia.

I think it's fairly easy now to decipher what the Russians really mean when they claim to want to "contribute further to the solution".  What they really mean is that they want to continue to move troops and material into the affected area and go ahead with their plan of a larger invasion to get their land bridge to Crimea.

I just read an article last night which stated that Crimea was going to cost the Russian Federation 150 Billion Dollars all together.  Factoring in the cost of the economic sanctions and cost of the continued war I would say that figure is likely to be low.  When all is said and done I believe it will cost Putin his Presidency. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 11:05:30 AM
I hope that Russia becomes insolvent/bankrupt soon and cannot afford further invasions.

 I read something recently that 'appears' (not 100% sure about it though) that they're dipping into the pensioners fund to sponsor the war effort.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 03, 2014, 11:54:28 AM
I hope that Russia becomes insolvent/bankrupt soon and cannot afford further invasions.



War may be Putin's solution to becoming stronger. Russia nearly lost to Germany in WW2 and emerged a super power. USA also became much stronger after the war. If Russia has available resources and a willing population to churn out weapons wholesale, they can become stronger after a war only if they win it. There's no doubt in my mind Putin wants more real estate. Only thing stopping him is the thought of losing a war. So far the world has shown they won't go any further than sanctions in stopping Putin. Obama is president for a couple more years so the window of the best opportunity will close after that. Putin has some time to decide if he wants his name etched in history books.


I feel sorry for Ukraine president Poroshenko. He reminds me of the coach that takes the job on a losing team. Little chance in winning. Putin will remain a thorn in his side for years to come and Ukraine will continually get stepped on by Russia. The citizens of Ukraine may eventually blame Poroshenko for not getting positive results. Reality is anybody in his shoes have an uphill battle they probably can't win. Will Europe and America pump enough money into Ukraine to make Ukrainian citizens believe they're heading in the right direction? Hard to turn a country's economy around with a lot of infighting.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 03, 2014, 12:21:28 PM
Fwiw, there are Sberbank branches in Bila Tserkva.

But--no queue's!!  Characteristic of Russian owned banks across Ukraine. Simply not trusted .
Compare that to Privat everywhere -always crowds
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 03, 2014, 12:34:56 PM
I'm surprised because it's no small amount of trade which Germany does with Russia.

I think it's fairly easy now to decipher what the Russians really mean when they claim to want to "contribute further to the solution".  What they really mean is that they want to continue to move troops and material into the affected area and go ahead with their plan of a larger invasion to get their land bridge to Crimea.

I just read an article last night which stated that Crimea was going to cost the Russian Federation 150 Billion Dollars all together.  Factoring in the cost of the economic sanctions and cost of the continued war I would say that figure is likely to be low.  When all is said and done I believe it will cost Putin his Presidency.

The sanctions and the pressure of sanctions are only in early days.
Some of the nations seriously entwined with Russian money( notably Germany and UK)  were reluctant to go overboard overnight-- but the big picture is clearer now and they have been forced into line-- so look for sanctions being continually ramped up.
Putin's blustering and provocations are designed as a distraction-aimed at stopping the west doing to much to help Ukraine while Russia tidies up it's invasion-then later to claim they were only recognising the will of the people.His hope is that Russia can outlast the west.
Putin is stupid enough-- and deluded to the point of craziness--to keep escalating as it hides the real problems in Russia itself( hides from Russians at least)
The west is not going to charge into an unnecessary war if it can avoid it--and that is exactly what Putin is counting on.  The sanctions will strangle Russia and send it broke- Putin has put Russia on a path to humiliation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 12:41:50 PM
I can appreciate MissA's fruatration with all of us over this.  Many of us have an opinion because we care, but just how valuable or insightful any of those ideas are is pretty much garabage. 

We have family, friends and people we care about over there/here.  But the fact is everyone has family on both sides of the border.  I am biased and I assign blame to the President of Russia, who I think has cancer.  Both sides have Nazis fighting on both sides.  Our US Ambassador says there is no military solution then why is he and his diplomatic team so incompetent at this job of making peace?

Why aren't we talking directly to the Russian people?  In Soviet times, Ruskies would listen to BBC and VOa.  We just cut VOA funding and no one on team Obama the internet President can't use YouTube for anything except raising money.

We can blame Obama all we want but when are we going to own up to the fact compared to challenges to previous generations in facing down tyranny we ain't up to the task?  Or is a civizational gut check too much to ask from such low information voters? Present company including myself
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 03, 2014, 12:44:35 PM


I feel sorry for Ukraine president Poroshenko. He reminds me of the coach that takes the job on a losing team. Little chance in winning.

BB-- you only find out how clever you are when you really have your back to the wall.Anyone can run a business in boom times--managing and surviving when it is not all going your way is what decides how capable you are-- how tough you are.
What you are underestimating is the sheer will of the people of Ukraine-- the huge shift to support a united Ukraine is real-people want it.
Carping on about the negative "could be's" is doing the Ukrainian people a disservice and you are underestimating them  -especially in a time when the young men are being sacrificed  in this battle.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 01:12:42 PM
BB-- you only find out how clever you are when you really have your back to the wall.Anyone can run a business in boom times--managing and surviving when it is not all going your way is what decides how capable you are-- how tough you are.
What you are underestimating is the sheer will of the people of Ukraine-- the huge shift to support a united Ukraine is real-people want it.
Carping on about the negative "could be's" is doing the Ukrainian people a disservice and you are underestimating them  -especially in a time when the young men are being sacrificed  in this battle.

I don't think that is his intention.  The situation in Ukraine is dire and he's being realistic about the overwhelming odds facing Ukraine.  Since the West has done so little in regards to giving them heavy weapons to defend themselves I think he is just making a truthful assessment.  Let's hope he is wrong; and hope that starting tomorrow when the US Congress is Republican some real action is taken in regards to helping Ukraine have the materials they need to defend themselves.  Even Stalin after WWII admitted how important the lend lease program was in helping the Soviets beat the Nazi's.  Now someone who admires Stalin wants to turn back the clock in regards to how the nation of Ukraine is treated. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 03, 2014, 02:05:31 PM
About- creating a Land bridge to Crimea from Russia idea.
This would involve going through Mariupol'.

INSANE.
This city is heavily fortified. The people there are supportive of Ukraine. And yes- they mostly speak Russian there. The battle for Mariupol' will be bloody with lots of losses on both sides. Putin supports this invasion, again, because he likes the idea of New Russia. He wants to recreate the New Soviet Union. Rebel leaders talk about moving their front line as far west as possible. It's impossible to negotiate with crazy people. It's a horrible situation. A show of force is the only language the separatists understand.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 02:10:53 PM
About- creating a Land bridge to Crimea from Russia idea.
This would involve going through Mariupol'.

INSANE.
This city is heavily fortified. The people there are supportive of Ukraine. And yes- they mostly speak Russian there. The battle for Mariupol' will be bloody with lots of losses on both sides. Putin supports this invasion, again, because he likes the idea of New Russia. He wants to recreate the New Soviet Union. Rebel leaders talk about moving their front line as far west as possible. It's impossible to negotiate with crazy people. It's a horrible situation. A show of force is the only language the separatists understand.

Even if Putin does not go through with a full-fledged invasion, there are opinion pieces which say that he has already accomplished what he wanted to accomplish, which is a bankrupt Ukraine which he hopes will eventually come back "home" to mother Russia.  The question is then who will be economically harmed and stopped first -- Russia or Ukraine?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 03, 2014, 02:29:00 PM
Ukraine's economy is smaller and more fragile than Russia's. When Ukraine's economy crashes, they will not turn towards Putin. That's my prediction. Most Ukrainians see him as a mass murderer, and the one responsible for any economic collapse.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 04:57:40 PM
They can go around the city and isolate from land it easily. Cut  water, gas lines and power. There are reports of shelling the city now.

 I also suspect that they want the land bridge to extend to Transnistria. That'll cut Ukraine off from any seaports they have.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 03, 2014, 05:40:03 PM
If they push that far, it's pure idiocy. Everyone loses, including Russia. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 06:20:55 PM
If they push that far, it's pure idiocy. Everyone loses, including Russia.

I would characterize it as sheer lunacy.  Do you expect anything less from a short little Napoleonic egomaniac?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 06:40:39 PM
If they push that far, it's pure idiocy. Everyone loses, including Russia.

And? your point would be? :popcorn:

 There's nothing sane in what Russia has been doing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 06:43:43 PM
Billy's military analysis fails on several fronts.  First, none of his dire predictions have ever come true.  In fact, he ignores Ukrainian reverses or the efforts of the Date nbass Cyborgs who against all odds hold the airport.  Second, the Russian federation in Ukraine has no air support.  Ukraine doesn't exactly dominate the skies given the antiaircraft assets the Russians have in Eastern Ukraine.  Nonetheless we aren't seeing air to air battles and Ukraine's ability to bring its air force to the fight is a keep advantage.  Third, the Russians themselves can't seem to get the job done.  Military expert Dmitry Tymchuk estimates more than 24,000 Russians in Eastern Ukraine.  But they execute a low level of discipline and do not operate under a unified  single command. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 06:52:37 PM
  Military expert Dmitry Tymchuk estimates more than 24,000 Russians in Eastern Ukraine.  But they execute a low level of discipline and do not operate under a unified  single command.

Do you have any links about these numbers? It seems very large compared to other 'guesstimates'.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 06:54:01 PM
There aren't any queues in PrivatBank either.  Until there is serious banking reform the best thing to do is to horde dollars under your mattress.

That said, there is a lot economic activity in Ukraine and not all of it is bad.  Inflation and gas prices remain a problem but the tourist economy in Lviv has picked up.

Not that this is scientific, but roads are getting repaired.  People drive mostly foreign cars here.  Advertisements for new cars and apartments are everywhere.

Ukraine's best resource is its people and Generation Maidan is just entering the workforce.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 06:55:52 PM
Do you have any links about these numbers? It seems very large compared to other 'guesstimates'.
http://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=583876065074386&id=100003559926167

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 07:04:12 PM
Second, the Russian federation in Ukraine has no air support.  Ukraine doesn't exactly dominate the skies given the antiaircraft assets the Russians have in Eastern Ukraine.  Nonetheless we aren't seeing air to air battles and Ukraine's ability to bring its air force to the fight is a keepn advantage.

The Russian Federation in Ukraine has no air support because Putin has not authorized it. He can deny arming the separatists if he doesn't send in Russian aircraft.  He can't do that if he does.  You're being obtuse.  If Putin authorizes a full scale invasion it's going to be fast and furious. 

Your numbers of Russian soldiers inside of Ukraine are also greatly exaggerated.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 07:14:06 PM
http://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=583876065074386&id=100003559926167

Read that link carefully.  Above you claim that there are approximately 24,000 Russian soldiers inside of Ukraine, and yet the link you provide states that there are approximately 14,000 combined mercenaries and Russian soldiers, and then another 10,0000 to 12,0000 local fighters.

The devil is in the details.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 07:20:08 PM



Ukraine beats Russia in Prosperity Index, ranks 63rd



Ukraine has placed the 63rd in the Prosperity Index published by the British Legatum Institute - five places ahead of neighbor Russia.

Norway tops the index this year, with Switzerland, New Zealand, Denmark and Canada rounding off the top five of the rating.

According to the executive director of the Legatum Institute Sian Hansen, the index reflects the level of a "national success." The authors of the Prosperity Index analysed achievements in the surveyed countries’ economies, business sphere, governance, education, health care system, defence sector, protection of rights and freedoms, and income of the population, reports Radio Liberty.

According to the report, this year Russia saw the biggest fall in its ranking compared to other European countries, dropping to 68th against 61st place last year. Legatum Institute analysts said Russia's actions in the international arena were to blame for the fall, namely - the annexation of Crimea, support for the insurgency in eastern Ukraine, as well as its vetos of UN Security Council resolutions on Syria.

As for Ukraine’s other neighbors; Poland ranked the 31st, Belarus 53rd, and Moldova 89th. The Prosperity Index covers 142 countries.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/society/1004547-ukraine-beats-russia-in-prosperity-index-ranks-63rd.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 07:23:36 PM


Ukraine beats Russia in Prosperity Index, ranks 63rd



Ukraine has placed the 63rd in the Prosperity Index published by the British Legatum Institute - five places ahead of neighbor Russia.

Norway tops the index this year, with Switzerland, New Zealand, Denmark and Canada rounding off the top five of the rating.

According to the executive director of the Legatum Institute Sian Hansen, the index reflects the level of a "national success." The authors of the Prosperity Index analysed achievements in the surveyed countries’ economies, business sphere, governance, education, health care system, defence sector, protection of rights and freedoms, and income of the population, reports Radio Liberty.

According to the report, this year Russia saw the biggest fall in its ranking compared to other European countries, dropping to 68th against 61st place last year. Legatum Institute analysts said Russia's actions in the international arena were to blame for the fall, namely - the annexation of Crimea, support for the insurgency in eastern Ukraine, as well as its vetos of UN Security Council resolutions on Syria.

As for Ukraine’s other neighbors; Poland ranked the 31st, Belarus 53rd, and Moldova 89th. The Prosperity Index covers 142 countries.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/society/1004547-ukraine-beats-russia-in-prosperity-index-ranks-63rd.html

It seems like wishful thinking more than reality.  Perhaps the author wanted to pump up Ukraine.  I'm not trying to put Ukraine down at all; it just seems like this is a bit of "Western propaganda" that Russians complain about.

Now in 5-10 years if Ukraine is successful in defending themselves and they become more integrated with the EU, then all bets are off.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 07:26:38 PM
Read that link carefully.  Above you claim that there are approximately 24,000 Russian soldiers inside of Ukraine, and yet the link you provide states that there are approximately 14,000 combined mercenaries and Russian soldiers, and then another 10,0000 to 12,0000 local fighters.

The devil is in the details.


Yeah, you're wrong.


Read it again.
http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/7480-svodka-kolichestvo-obstrelov-snizilos-protivnikom-sformirovany-4-udarnyh-gruppirovki-idet
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 07:32:50 PM

Yeah, you're wrong.


Read it again.
http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/7480-svodka-kolichestvo-obstrelov-snizilos-protivnikom-sformirovany-4-udarnyh-gruppirovki-idet

That's funny.  You say "read it again" but you post a different link.  No worries, same results.


Google translate
"As a part of these groups, it is estimated the group "IP", about 14-15 thousand Russian mercenaries and soldiers of the Russian Federation, as well as 10-12 thousand fighters from local gangs."


This part is more worrisome:
"Also in the data groups:
- 110-115 tanks;
- 250-280 AFV (armored fighting vehicles) such as BMP, BTR, MT-LB;
- 80-100 cannon artillery guns and MLRS units;
- The order of 500 units of vehicles (from Russian army armored Kamaz and tankers to Improvised Gun truck)."


The last tidbit is more telling, and that is that they are not successful because the "terrorists refuse to obey a single command".


That is obviously going to change if there is a real invasion with a real command structure, which let's cross our fingers there won't be.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 07:38:45 PM
Have a look at the source. It looks good to me.

http://www.li.com/about/about-the-legatum-institute
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 07:40:07 PM
So what?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 07:42:35 PM
It seems like wishful thinking more than reality.  Perhaps the author wanted to pump up Ukraine.  I'm not trying to put Ukraine down at all; it just seems like this is a bit of "Western propaganda" that Russians complain about.

Now in 5-10 years if Ukraine is successful in defending themselves and they become more integrated with the EU, then all bets are off.


Whatvs
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 07:43:40 PM
Have a look at the source. It looks good to me.

http://www.li.com/about/about-the-legatum-institute

Ukraine has enormous debt and gas and oil production are not anywhere near the level of Russia's, which is why Ukraine and Europe (currently) get their natural gas from Russia.

Yes it looks good but it just doesn't match the reality on the ground, IMO.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 07:45:15 PM

Whatvs

Are you possibly posting while intoxicated?  Did you mean to write "what BS"?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 07:55:29 PM
Leave the insults for the Pro-Russia party.  You don't have ANY proof of your drive by swipe at the study of which I am not a fan. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 07:57:57 PM
Ukraine has enormous debt and gas and oil production are not anywhere near the level of Russia's, which is why Ukraine and Europe (currently) get their natural gas from Russia.

Yes it looks good but it just doesn't match the reality on the ground, IMO.

Again. So what?

68 Ukrainian soldiers have died since the ceasefire and you want to bird dog some BS study the Brits did as pro-Ukie propo?

Yeah whatever
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lonedrake on November 03, 2014, 08:00:45 PM
Billy's military analysis fails on several fronts.  First, none of his dire predictions have ever come true.  In fact, he ignores Ukrainian reverses or the efforts of the Date nbass Cyborgs who against all odds hold the airport.  Second, the Russian federation in Ukraine has no air support.  Ukraine doesn't exactly dominate the skies given the antiaircraft assets the Russians have in Eastern Ukraine.  Nonetheless we aren't seeing air to air battles and Ukraine's ability to bring its air force to the fight is a keep advantage.  Third, the Russians themselves can't seem to get the job done.  Military expert Dmitry Tymchuk estimates more than 24,000 Russians in Eastern Ukraine.  But they execute a low level of discipline and do not operate under a unified  single command.

Billy's analysis been excellent. Go back and read his....then read your analysis.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 08:01:25 PM
Read that link carefully.  Above you claim that there are approximately 24,000 Russian soldiers inside of Ukraine, and yet the link you provide states that there are approximately 14,000 combined mercenaries and Russian soldiers, and then another 10,0000 to 12,0000 local fighters.

The devil is in the details.

Dream on.

And General Breed love says there are only 350 Russians in Ukraine.  So who are you going to believe NATO or your lying eyes?

Even if what you wrote is true, so what?  How does it impeach my argument?  It doesn't.

Whatever dude
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 08:03:35 PM
Billy's analysis been excellent. Go back and read his....then read your analysis.

What instrument do you play on the band wagon you are riding?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lonedrake on November 03, 2014, 08:23:36 PM
What instrument do you play on the band wagon you are riding?


 It is always easy to read and understand what Billy B writes. I have a lot of respect for his analysis.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 08:39:08 PM
Billy's analysis been excellent. Go back and read his....then read your analysis.

+1  Compare actual analysis to incoherent ramblings.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 09:02:59 PM
Yeah, ok.  The Russians are reduced to trying to storm checkpoints.  Yet the Donetsk airport is in UKRAINIAN hands.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 09:05:55 PM
AC, I'd suspect that they look at the overall health of the economy and such for the entire country. Not just the major cities. UA has some crude villages and so does Russia.

Maybe ours are a touch better?  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 09:15:16 PM
Prices for food in Ukraine are cheap compared to Russia.   The article itself doesn't get into the minutiae of why Ukraine is better than Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 09:18:27 PM
+1  Compare actual analysis to incoherent ramblings.

Tell us how many battles and wars have been won where the comma di g general deploys his force piecemeal, doesn't coordinate his attacks, his commanders war amongst each other and the are not able to use full combat power?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 09:19:39 PM
AC, I'd suspect that they look at the overall health of the economy and such for the entire country. Not just the major cities. UA has some crude villages and so does Russia.

Maybe ours are a touch better?  :D

I think it's because the cost of living is less in Ukraine.  It's also likely because the cost of financing Crimea and the sanctions as well have caused substantial damage to Russia's economy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 09:24:13 PM
Tell us how many battles and wars have been won where the comma di g general deploys his force piecemeal, doesn't coordinate his attacks, his commanders war amongst each other and the are not able to use full combat power?

Come back tomorrow when you are sober.  Putin's accomplished much of what he wants to without (yet) resorting to a full scale invasion: 

a)  which is a frozen conflict whereby he can continue to meddle in Ukrainian affairs for years on end.
b)  extensive damage to Ukraine's economy which he hopes will result in
c)  Ukraine comes back to Russia's embrace.


Now answer the same question you posed but insert America's "war" and involvement in Iraq.  Aha.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 09:46:20 PM
Tell us how many battles and wars have been won where the comma di g general deploys his force piecemeal, doesn't coordinate his attacks, his commanders war amongst each other and the are not able to use full combat power?

 But these commanding generals have much larger resources than the UA Army does. Not to mention the real Generals behind the borders calling the real shots.

 How long are you going to be in country LT? I'll be there Dec. and Jan.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 10:01:34 PM
Putin’s created an economic crisis and left Moscow no easy way out
By William E. Pomeranz November 4, 2014 REUTERS

Western sanctions have left Russia in dire financial circumstances — stuck somewhere between recession and stagnation. Though proven solutions exist for what now ails Russia, President Vladimir Putin’s geo-strategic and political choices have rendered these traditional economic approaches unworkable.

Under normal market conditions, for example, the recent collapse of the Russian ruble should have spurred exports, domestic manufacturing and foreign investment because a weaker currency makes Russian business more competitive both domestically and internationally. Yet a dramatic rebound in any of those economic arenas remains unlikely not just due to sanctions but also because of the entrenched structural weaknesses of Putin’s system.

In particular, Russia lacks a diversified economy, a vibrant entrepreneurial class, the rule of law and a stable business environment that can support a fast economic turnaround. In addition, this crisis has sparked Russian anti-Western and isolationist rhetoric that makes Moscow’s road to recovery significantly more difficult.

Putin’s pursuit of greater imperial glory has brought an unrelenting stream of bad economic news. The dramatic collapse of the price of oil means a decline in state revenues and less money for Putin’s ambitious military and social spending projects. Along with the ruble sinking, inflation is rising and capital flight has soared to record highs.

The only good news is that the Russian budget is in balance. That only occurred, however, because the government is paying its bills with cheaper rubles. It is never a good sign when the finance minister announces that he needs a backup budget since the proposed 2015-17 budget is already obsolete. (It is based on an oil price of $100 per barrel.)

Though Russia has discussed the merits of diversification beyond oil for decades, it has never bothered to implement the strategy. Russian domestic producers are thus in no position to take advantage of a falling ruble because, other than natural resources, they have relatively little to sell abroad.

But even if foreign markets remain out of reach, a falling currency theoretically should stimulate domestic production if only because foreign goods inevitably will become too expensive for Russian consumers. Moscow has heralded its food sanctions — which ban the import of European Union and U.S. meat, fruit and vegetables — as just such a chance to force Russians to buy local produce.

Yet Russian businessmen and women have been so over-regulated — and over-prosecuted — that the Russian entrepreneur has become an endangered species. Indeed, an amnesty last year revealed tens of thousands of business leaders in jail on essentially trumped-up charges. Despite much fanfare, only a relative trickle of people was eventually released.

Because government fiscal policy and a dysfunctional legal system won’t allow small- and medium-sized businesses to lead Russia out of recession, that leaves Russia’s big state corporations — the bedrock of Putin’s policy of state capitalism — to show the way. Thanks to sanctions, however, Russian companies and banks are busy seeking bailouts, not new markets.

Igor Sechin, chairman of the state oil company Rosneft, recently announced, for example, that what is good for Rosneft is good for Russia — and asked for $49 billion from the National Welfare Fund, one of Russia’s major rainy day funds.

Putin’s finance minister has already announced that Rosneft won’t get that much. But the collective demands for hard currency — from the central bank’s interventions to defend the ruble to Putin’s big spending plans for Crimea — are putting strong pressures on Russian financial reserves, which are already down 13 percent this year. Moscow is busy spending money, and no one knows when it will stop.

One last economic option available to most struggling economies — increased foreign direct investment — is largely off the table here thanks to the sanctions and Russia’s inhospitable business climate.

The Kremlin recently announced, however, that it intends to make a bad situation worse. Much of Russia’s foreign investments represent money returning from Russians living abroad. Yet now the finance ministry wants companies registered offshore and owned (50 percent or more) or potentially controlled (25 percent or more) by Russian citizens to pay taxes in Russia.

Why Russian businesses would want to expose their offshore earnings to Russian taxes once they have gone through the trouble of transferring their money out of the country remains a big mystery. Ironically, Putin had intended to use Russia’s chairmanship of the G-8 to lead a global fight against tax havens and offshore banking. But Russia is no longer a member of the G-8, and Putin must pursue his strategy of “de-offshorization” alone and with little chance of success.

Russia is in desperate need of a rational conversation about its economic challenges. Yet Putin refuses to engage in this dialogue because it obviously would interfere with the triumphant narrative dominating the Russian media. Instead, he is pursuing a policy of cracking down and lashing out. His latest diatribe, delivered at the Valdai Club, showed that he is in no mood to compromise and that he continues to blame the United States for Russia’s — and all the world’s — problems.

As the Russian economy continues its downward spiral, however, citizens are bound to ask difficult questions of their leaders. The Russian people bring a tradition of stoicism to any emergency, yet the current crisis is not the equivalent of foreign armies at the gates of Leningrad. Nor can it be compared to the long-running ideological struggle of the Cold War. This crisis is instead symbolized by the so-called Rotenberg law — that the Russian people should bail out oligarchs who have their villas seized in Italy.

Putin is playing for time here. There always is the risk that he will pursue additional imperial glory to maintain his popularity. Yet in the words of the economist Herbert Stein, chairman of President Richard M. Nixon’s Council of Economic advisers, “If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”

Russia’s savings are not inexhaustible. The main established routes to economic recovery — increasing exports, expanding domestic manufacturing, attracting more foreign investment — are not currently viable. Other proposed solutions, including price controls or fixed exchange rates, would only make matters worse.

Putin is the author of this crisis. And the Russian president will ultimately be required to provide some answers

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/11/03/putins-created-an-economic-crisis-and-left-russia-no-easy-way-out/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 04, 2014, 12:08:03 AM


Your numbers of Russian soldiers inside of Ukraine are also greatly exaggerated.

Earlier I posted some numbers of estimates-I believe they were conservative.
Today--as I post this--

http://twitter.com/Conflict_Report/status/529224302496083968

#BreakingReport The entire road between #Rovenky and #Debaltseve is full of #Russian_Army troops.
Around 2000 w/tanks

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 04, 2014, 02:41:24 AM
But these commanding generals have much larger resources than the UA Army does. Not to mention the real Generals behind the borders calling the real shots.

 How long are hours going to be in country LT? I'll be there Dec. and Jan.

Mike, I go back on Sunday.  But return last 2 weeks of January.  PM me if this works out for you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 04, 2014, 02:52:26 AM
Come back tomorrow when you are sober.  Putin's accomplished much of what he wants to without (yet) resorting to a full scale invasion: 

a)  which is a frozen conflict whereby he can continue to meddle in Ukrainian affairs for years on end.
b)  extensive damage to Ukraine's economy which he hopes will result in
c)  Ukraine comes back to Russia's embrace.


Now answer the same question you posed but insert America's "war" and involvement in Iraq.  Aha.

Comparing Iraqis to Ukrainians says a lot about you and your knowledge of the region.

There are a lot of adverts for English schools and apartments on the Kiev metro.  John Deere is here.  The Soviet blight is cruel and pervasive.  Kievans accept the Stalinist architecture rebuilt by slaves from the last war alongside the golden domed onion domes and smart phones.  I got a bit of business done with the Ukrainian civil service.  He was helpful, polite and spoke English which is more than I get in Harris County or the VA.  If you are a VC, come to Ukraine.  In a year it will be too late and this city will be almost livable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 04, 2014, 05:05:34 AM
Comparing Iraqis to Ukrainians says a lot about you and your knowledge of the region.

I was not comparing Iraqi's to Ukrainian's.  I was comparing Russia's lack of commitment to a war to America's lack of commitment to war in Iraq.  I believe that was obvious; however I would like to hear the opinion of someone like Calmissile on this.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 04, 2014, 05:51:37 AM
Nothing you have written changes anything. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 04, 2014, 05:58:34 AM
Tell us how many battles and wars have been won where the comma di g general deploys his force piecemeal, doesn't coordinate his attacks, his commanders war amongst each other and the are not able to use full combat power?

This is your quotation.  Obviously you were talking about Russia's lack of commitment to a full scale war in Ukraine.

Is that what you really want?  Wake up and smell the coffee. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 04, 2014, 10:02:38 AM
What you are underestimating is the sheer will of the people of Ukraine-- the huge shift to support a united Ukraine is real-people want it.



Most Ukrainians may want a united Ukraine but I see few citizens willing to pick up a weapon and die for it. When we see Ukraine go on an offensive to retake Crimea, I'll believe most Ukrainians truly want a united Ukraine.


Carping on about the negative "could be's" is doing the Ukrainian people a disservice and you are underestimating them  -especially in a time when the young men are being sacrificed  in this battle.


Underestimating? Just being a realist. Poroshenko underestimated his military when he first became president. Remember how he announced the rebels will be flushed out in a day right after he was inaugurated? Underestimating ones opponent is a disservice and going to get people killed. A good leader and generals need to understand the truth to respond accordingly and the truth is the Ukrainian military is not well trained, not well led, and not well equipped so they are at a stalemate with street thugs and a few Russian troops. Poroshenko now has to swallow his pride and negotiate a gas deal with Putin so his people don't freeze this winter. It's not easy to face the guy who stole land and is killing your people but what are the options? The West isn't giving enough help and the Ukrainian military doesn't have the ability to get the job done.


Billy's military analysis fails on several fronts.  First, none of his dire predictions have ever come true.



Just because Putin hasn't completed his goals doesn't mean my predictions won't come true. Even before Putin invaded Crimea, I said on this forum Putin wants Ukraine and Ukraine needs to prepare for an invasion. An invasion has already happened. Smaller than what people thought but its all the same.


Putin has sacrificed military hardware, a few of his troops and his economy in his pursuit of Ukraine. Do you think he's going to give up now or do you think he wants a return on his investment? Giving up what he started is political suicide. It would be a statement that tells his people he doesn't know what he's doing so I say he's all in for the long haul in his conquest of Ukraine. The only thing that will stop his is if he feels the west takes military action against him. Sanctions don't work. They don't work on North Korea, Cuba, or Iran so why would it work against Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 04, 2014, 11:01:58 AM
On a completely different topic, oil prices slid to just above US$75 today.  That had an immediate impact on the Canadian dollar.  A drop in oil prices is not good news for Russia.


The Saudis are increasing output to retain their market share, and there is speculation the price will drop even further.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 04, 2014, 12:05:17 PM
A number of us predicted a Russian military incursion into Ukraine. Mendy and myself were discussing it during and after the Georgian invasion. With the same well known and equally vocal forum participants denying that invasion at the time as well.

The problems for Putin didn't arise as a result of what Ukraine did or didn't do. The problems for Putin started when a crew of his incompetent punk cronies accidently blew a civilian jetliner out of the sky.

Up to this point Putin's operation was going as planned and was on schedule for a quiet invasion of Ukraine which would have been over with minimum fuss and no more of a passing headline and some protests from the West similar to what transpired with Georgia.

MH17 focused world attention on Ukraine and like someone turning on a floodlight onto a dark stage, there was Mr. Putin eyes wide like a deer in the headlights with his hand in the cookie jar, the entire operation soon to be exposed.

Putin's choices were mutter something along the lines of "Uh, it's not what it looks like folks" and walk away or carry on with his occupation in full view of the world. He has chosen the latter because as others have mentioned if he loses face he loses Russia.

Has Putin attained his objectives/goals? Not a chance. Putin's dreams of absorbing Russia's satellites are over. It was over the second the criminally negligent fool operating that BUK threw the launch switch.

Having said that had those people on that plane not died that day Russia would own Ukraine by now and be quietly moving on to yet another country.

Will we see a united Ukraine in the near future? I think we will. Unlike most of the members here I do believe the next phase of this conflict will be a shooting war between NATO and Russia or at least a military intervention by NATO/allied countries.  This won't happen for two years yet but when the US reasserts itself back on to the world stage there will be more than a few countries ready to get in this fight, Canada being one of them.

Poroshenko/Ukraine's military? Ukraine is doing remarkably well on the battle field considering they've been abandoned by the rest of the world.

Up to the point where Russia realized that if they didn't openly start moving troops, armor and supplies into Ukraine (even while still denying it) they were going to lose what gains had been made, Ukraine was winning this war.

However, will bravo zulus, pats on the back and atta boys from Nato countries help Ukraine win the war? Nope. They will lose this thing if Poroshenko doesn't employ every diplomatic trick in the book to keep his country alive and that's what he's doing.

One day this guy's going to write his biography/memos and there will be a few red faces from former leaders of western/nato countries, I'm sure.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 04, 2014, 12:24:57 PM
EU Delays Decision on Russia's Access to Opal Gas Pipeline
Reuters
Nov. 03 2014 17:19
Last edited 19:41

The European Commission said Monday it had pushed back a deadline for deciding whether to give Russia more access to the Opal gas pipeline across Germany until the end of January from the end of October.

Russian gas exporter Gazprom is currently allowed only limited access to the pipeline under a European Union law which seeks to prevent energy suppliers from dominating infrastructure.

But no-one else has taken up the spare capacity on Opal, which provides a link between Russia's Nord Stream pipeline to Germany and the Czech Republic.

"The Commission has agreed with the German Federal Network Agency (Bundesnetzagentur) to prolong the deadline for issuing a decision on Opal. The reason ... is that certain technical aspects require further attention," a Commission official said.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said it was difficult to say exactly when a decision would be made. The new deadline was the end of January 2015, although it could be extended further.

A decision on whether to grant Gazprom greater access has already been delayed several times.

The latest delay comes at a time of high tension between the EU and Russia over the Ukraine crisis. The conflict and Gazprom's decision in June to cut off gas supplies to Ukraine over unpaid bills has heightened the EU's determination to reduce its energy dependence on Russia.

Gazprom said last Wednesday it had failed to reach a deal at talks with the European Commission on the Opal gas pipeline and wanted new negotiations.

In Brussels last week, Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak criticized the failure as a political decision.

Ukraine, Russia and the EU signed a deal last Thursday that will see Moscow resume vital supplies of gas to its former Soviet neighbor over the winter months in return for payments funded in part by Kiev's Western creditors.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/eu-delays-decision-on-russia-s-access-to-opal-gas-pipeline/510577.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 04, 2014, 12:38:02 PM
Oil takes another dip. Not good news for the huilomeister's junta.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 04, 2014, 01:52:51 PM
Oil takes another dip. Not good news for the huilomeister's junta.

I think he's insane if he launches a full scale invasion to get his land bridge now, considering that it's going to bankrupt him.  Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 04, 2014, 01:58:35 PM

Will we see a united Ukraine in the near future? I think we will. Unlike most of the members here I do believe the next phase of this conflict will be a shooting war between NATO and Russia or at least a military intervention by NATO/allied countries.  This won't happen for two years yet but when the US reasserts itself back on to the world stage there will be more than a few countries ready to get in this fight, Canada being one of them.

Poroshenko/Ukraine's military? Ukraine is doing remarkably well on the battle field considering they've been abandoned by the rest of the world.



+1     (I am cautiously optimistic that you are correct about the US reasserting itself back on the world stage)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: I/O on November 04, 2014, 02:46:31 PM
The Saudis are increasing output to retain their market share, and there is speculation the price will drop even further.
Yes indeed. All the while, the bear is wasting it's hard earned on fruitless and ultimately very expensive military objectives. I cannot but wonder (cough) who's really pulling the strings? I seem to recall something like "We'll break these bastards and we'll let them do it themselves with what they love doing". History has a nasty habit of repeating itself, very quickly sometimes - the price of MIL's next trip here has increased by 30% in as many weeks.............
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 04, 2014, 04:09:03 PM


The Saudis are increasing output to retain their market share, and there is speculation the price will drop even further.

The Saudis are increasing output to reduce competition.   Increased production reduces the price of oil to a level below what is needed for new shale oil drilling projects to be economically feasible.     The fracking of shale oil and its transport to refiners is more expensive than Saudi's production.  Other OPEC members are not pleased with the Saudi initiative.   There is a limit to how far down the Saudis will drive the price,
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 04, 2014, 04:42:43 PM
I think he's insane if he launches a full scale invasion to get his land bridge now, considering that it's going to bankrupt him. 



An invasion of Europe will bring those oil prices back up. War will hurt more developed countries than those that aren't as developed so Europe has more to worry about than Russia if Putin chooses war. I doubt this economic war the West is applying on Russia is going to put Putin on his knees, apologize and ask for a seat back in the circle of Western friends. We aren't going to stop Putin with sanctions but we are backing him in a corner. Putin is the cat.


If Putin goes to war, there's little risk he'll lose Russia if the West decides to get involved military. Hard to invade a country when they have nukes as an option for their defense.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 04, 2014, 05:11:31 PM
Do you seriously think Putin would launch Nukes at invading troops in his own country..ever heard of radioactive fallout ?

Nukes are a deterrent to stop other countries firing Nukes at you,knowing they'll get the same back...not to dump them in your own country.

Russia could quite possibly be invaded by NATO ,the Russian Defense Minister has already expressed increasing alarm at the unprecedented build-up of NATO forces on the Russian borders...nothing is off the table.

NATO is getting increasingly miffed with the three times higher than usual invasion of their airspace by Russian bombers and fighter aircraft this year...but doesn't need to rush anything..let Russia strangle itself economically first by keep pushing into Ukraine while the sanctions continue to get ramped-up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: I/O on November 04, 2014, 05:15:18 PM
let Russia strangle itself economically first
It has an impressive record of exactly that - I fear history will repeat...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 04, 2014, 05:25:41 PM
Do you seriously think Putin would launch Nukes at invading troops in his own country..ever heard of radioactive fallout ?



Yes, if it preserves the Russian way of life as Putin sees it. What is radioactive fallout compared to losing ones country? Neutron bombs will most likely be used on invading troops. Kill living organisms while preserving infrastructure and minimizing radioactive fallout.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: I/O on November 04, 2014, 05:28:57 PM
Billy - Please stop this nonsense, nobody but nobody is interesting in invading Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on November 04, 2014, 05:29:12 PM
The Saudis are increasing output to reduce competition.   Increased production reduces the price of oil to a level below what is needed for new shale oil drilling projects to be economically feasible.     The fracking of shale oil and its transport to refiners is more expensive than Saudi's production.  Other OPEC members are not pleased with the Saudi initiative.   There is a limit to how far down the Saudis will drive the price,

I doubt the price of oil is controlled by Saudis. Political will affects the short-living price fluctuations but the basement is global money flows which where headed in dollar bonds because of crisis. Oil looks stronger than other commodities, and the pattern on a few years price scale shows high probability for sharp breakthrough upside.  Created dollar mass is too large to be calm for too long, economic laws can not be annuled by politicians.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on November 04, 2014, 05:30:12 PM
Billy - Please stop this nonsense, nobody but nobody is interesting in invading Russia.

Except Billy  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 04, 2014, 06:23:27 PM
Do you seriously think Putin would launch Nukes at invading troops in his own country.. ( Ukraine isn't his country) ever heard of radioactive fallout ?

Nukes are a deterrent to stop other countries firing Nukes at you,knowing they'll get the same back...not to dump them in your own country.

Russia could quite possibly be invaded by NATO
,( Yeah in Bizzaro World the Russian Defense Minister has already expressed increasing alarm at the unprecedented build-up of NATO forces on the Russian borders...nothing is off the table.

NATO is getting increasingly miffed with the three times higher than usual invasion of their airspace by Russian bombers and fighter aircraft this year...but doesn't need to rush anything..let Russia strangle itself economically first by keep pushing into Ukraine while the sanctions continue to get ramped-up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 04, 2014, 07:04:31 PM
Agree it is political suicide for the Russian President to quit.  But his slow motion invasion is not working.  He doesn't want to escalate this because it would bring a united response from NATO. 

This isn't helping either:
http://time.com/3553962/us-dollar-greenback-currency-money-global-economy-treasury-securities/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 04, 2014, 07:43:51 PM
Billy - Please stop this nonsense, nobody but nobody is interesting in invading Russia.

+1 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 04, 2014, 08:58:47 PM
nobody but nobody is interesting in invading Russia.


That's what I've been saying based off nuclear deterrent. There will be interested parties going to war with Russia if they have ambitions past Ukraine. Follow the conversation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 04, 2014, 09:19:14 PM


Russia could quite possibly be invaded by NATO ,the Russian Defense Minister has already expressed increasing alarm at the unprecedented build-up of NATO forces on the Russian borders...nothing is off the table.

NATO is getting increasingly miffed with the three times higher than usual invasion of their airspace by Russian bombers and fighter aircraft this year...but doesn't need to rush anything..let Russia strangle itself economically first by keep pushing into Ukraine while the sanctions continue to get ramped-up.


I don't see NATO conducting any invasion against Russia.  From what I've gathered that isn't even close to an option, AT THIS TIME.  If some event like this were to happen, the world would probably be thrown into a monumental battle, and nobody would be safe. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 04, 2014, 09:48:24 PM
I don't see NATO conducting any invasion against Russia.  From what I've gathered that isn't even close to an option, AT THIS TIME.



Russia is keeping the nuclear option on the table to make sure NATO doesn't get any ideas. I just read the article below. NATO commander Breedlove says Russia is discussion plans to put aircraft in Crimea that have a full range of capabilities including tactical nuclear weapons. How does he know this? He hasn't seen any evidence of it. I'm sure we've been intercepting phone calls of Russians in high places.


Chelseaboy, the neutron bombs I spoke of earlier are tactical nuclear weapons. They're ideal to annihilate armies in one blow without damaging the city they are attacking.


http://news.yahoo.com/us-general-paints-grim-picture-russia-relations-202012521.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 04, 2014, 10:38:30 PM
I doubt the price of oil is controlled by Saudis.

Price is set in the oil futures market based largely on two factors:  supply vs. demand and market sentiment (attitude of investors regarding future developments). 

The Saudis are significantly increasing the world supply of oil, and because the world demand for oil has not kept pace with the increased supply, the price for future oil drops.   And the market sentiment says the Saudis will continue to do this.  Thus, Saudis are causing the price for future oil to decline.   



Quote
Political will affects the short-living price fluctuations ...

What?  Yes, politics can have some affect.  Obama not approving the Keystone Pipeline and not drilling on Federal land indirectly kept prices higher, yet I assert this effect in the totality of the global market was small.     Political  turmoil in an OPEC country would curtail production, etc. yet these are rare.   

The majority of oil is used for fuel.  The demand for fuel vs. its supply largely determines price, not political will.

 


Quote
Oil looks stronger than other commodities, and the pattern on a few years price scale shows high probability for sharp breakthrough upside.

So you are a technical analyst (charts) rather than a fundamental analyst.   Expecting a breakout in price is thus your sentiment about the future market, and if you were a trader in oil futures you would buy call options.  If others did the same, the price would increase somewhat.  However, if the Saudis continued to produce more than their quota, you would lose your shirt.   


Quote
Created dollar mass is too large to be calm for too long, economic laws can not be annuled by politicians.

I am not sure what you are saying, although the second part suggests you agree that supply vs. demand determines price.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: I/O on November 05, 2014, 12:30:04 AM
Follow the conversation.
I have been - nobody is interested in invading Russia. Russias nuclear capability or out dated lack thereof, depending on what audience you're pitching to, has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Nobody is interested because it has nothing anyone wants, save some gas for Europe which is too stupid to see things for what they are, apart from all else. Face it, you wouldn't exactly move to Russia for the superior climate.... ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 05, 2014, 12:54:26 AM
I have been - nobody is interested in invading Russia. Russias nuclear capability or out dated lack thereof, depending on what audience you're pitching to, has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Nobody is interested because it has nothing anyone wants, save some gas for Europe which is too stupid to see things for what they are, apart from all else. Face it, you wouldn't exactly move to Russia for the superior climate.... ;D

Actually there is something the world wants from Russia..........To Be Left Alone!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 05, 2014, 06:58:33 AM
Actually there is something the world wants from Russia..........To Be Left Alone!


That would be the best reason to invade Russia by changing it's government but Putin is safe due to nuclear deterrent. He has little to lose if he decides to try something big in the future. We are going to have to deal with him for many more years whatever he decides to do.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on November 05, 2014, 08:33:19 AM
Well, let's see now if the US Congress arms Ukraine to the teeth and invade Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 05, 2014, 08:52:58 AM
Billy, though I disagree with your response, it is well written.  We are looking at the same Jackson Pollack and coming to different conclusions.  But even you concede that the President of Russia has suffered significant setbacks.  I would agree with you more if this was before May 5th.  Since Poroshenko took over, he has made a lot of good moves.  When the people of Odessa burned the separatists alive and when Poroshenko took Slaviansk, the momentum changed.  Yeah, they reversed some of those gains when they invaded from the sea.  But unanswered is how can you achieve a victory when you cannot use all your combat power and under divided commands?

You also underestimate in my opinion the Russian mind.  It is a culture of bandits.  They will never prosper. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 05, 2014, 09:00:04 AM
Putin is not safe from his friends.  Invading Russia should be on the table.  If Russia fails in this next offensive, the Army will collapse.  Invasion would be merciful
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 05, 2014, 01:20:18 PM
The Russian currency tumbled Wednesday as the Central Bank announced a major step toward a free floating exchange rate, reversing a policy of managing ruble volatility through market interventions that has been in place for 15 years.

The ruble plunged shortly after markets opened following two days of national holidays and passed the psychologically important 45-to-the-dollar mark for the first time in history during early evening trading.

Announcing it would spend no more than $350 million a day in defense of the currency, the Central Bank said in a statement Wednesday: "The ruble exchange rate will be determined predominantly by market factors." Previously there was no upper limit to the bank's interventions.

“The old framework has been torn up,” Neil Shearing, chief economist at Capital Economics, said in a note Wednesday.

The ruble pared losses Wednesday afternoon but dropped rapidly again in the evening, crashing past the 56-to-the-euro mark for the second time in one day and trading down more than 2 percent against the greenback on the previous day's close.



http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/central-bank-keeps-floating-corridor-to-avoid-market-shock/510654.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 05, 2014, 01:23:21 PM
The Ruble has lost 28% year to date?  Ouch!  I didn't know it was really that bad.  That is some very serious inflation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 05, 2014, 01:40:47 PM
Well, let's see now if the US Congress arms Ukraine to the teeth and invade Russia.


Are you in pain today? 

Should be interesting times in Washington.  If McConnell can dissuade Ted Cruz from passing a bill to repeal Obamacare, maybe Obama will not take executive action in immigration and instead await a bipartisan bill.  I still worry that Obama does not know how to get along with Republicans.  I also worry that the tea party, although somewhat diminished, is still active. 

Regarding Ukraine, it will not take front stage given ISIS, Syria, Iran, Israel, ebola, etc.  Ukraine unfortunately will have the same priority as Afghanistan.  That could change if Putin raises the stakes.  Meanwhile, the sanctions are working. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 05, 2014, 02:48:43 PM
The nail in the coffin?  (in an economic sense)


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-has-votes-to-pass-keystone/ar-BBd7Vl7
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 05, 2014, 02:53:53 PM
No this is the nail in the coffin that they'll understand easiest!

http://en.censor.net.ua/photo_news/308017/hs_separatists_death_volunteers_purchased_modern_sniper_rifle_for_soldiers_photos
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 05, 2014, 03:05:29 PM
No this is the nail in the coffin that they'll understand easiest!

http://en.censor.net.ua/photo_news/308017/hs_separatists_death_volunteers_purchased_modern_sniper_rifle_for_soldiers_photos

Nice!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 05, 2014, 03:14:27 PM
The top target was at 600 meters. The bottom was at 1 kilometer.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 05, 2014, 03:44:22 PM
The top target was at 300 meters. The bottom was at 1 kilometer.

I think the top one was at 600 meters, at least that's what they originally dialed it in at per the text.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 05, 2014, 03:58:35 PM
The other side of the falling ruble story is the strength of the US dollar.

Today Russian propagandist Graham Phillips sent off Russian fighters that would later die in the fighting for the Donetsk airport.  Two of the dead were children.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 05, 2014, 04:55:23 PM
War gaming Billy's doomsday scenario
http://nr2.com.ua/News/world_and_russia/Kakie-poteri-budut-u-rossiyskoy-armii-esli-Putin-nachnet-probivat-koridor-na-Krym-83918.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 05, 2014, 05:42:15 PM
Russian actor and Putin critic found dead in Moscow

..."Police suspect foul play after Alexei Devotchenko, critic of Vladimir Putin, discovered "in pool of blood"...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11212072/Russian-actor-and-Putin-critic-found-dead-in-Moscow.html

...Gee, ya think?  :rolleyes:

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on November 05, 2014, 05:54:14 PM

Are you in pain today? 

Should be interesting times in Washington.  If McConnell can dissuade Ted Cruz from passing a bill to repeal Obamacare, maybe Obama will not take executive action in immigration and instead await a bipartisan bill.  I still worry that Obama does not know how to get along with Republicans.  I also worry that the tea party, although somewhat diminished, is still active. 

Regarding Ukraine, it will not take front stage given ISIS, Syria, Iran, Israel, ebola, etc.  Ukraine unfortunately will have the same priority as Afghanistan.  That could change if Putin raises the stakes.  Meanwhile, the sanctions are working.


LMFAO


Nah!


Actually, I'm enjoying this and much more later on.


There is a saying in PR: "Dale cuerda para que se ahorque."


Trust me, it will be fun to watch the implosion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 05, 2014, 06:50:49 PM
Russian actor and Putin critic found dead in Moscow

..."Police suspect foul play after Alexei Devotchenko, critic of Vladimir Putin, discovered "in pool of blood"...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11212072/Russian-actor-and-Putin-critic-found-dead-in-Moscow.html

...Gee, ya think?  :rolleyes:

Brass

Gotta love the Russkies way of going insane.  At least for the most part they do it en mass, and anyone who doesn't get with the program will be dealt with.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 06, 2014, 12:11:59 AM
  Since Poroshenko took over, he has made a lot of good moves. 



I like Poroshenko but he's in charge of a losing team. Prior to him showing up, Ukraine was a place of corruption and dysfunction. Putin is partially to blame for them being where they're at. They can change overnight.


Putin also has made good moves to achieve his objectives. Based on the recent sham elections in east Ukraine, Putin is one step closer to owning more land.



Regarding Ukraine, it will not take front stage given ISIS, Syria, Iran, Israel, ebola, etc.  Ukraine unfortunately will have the same priority as Afghanistan.  That could change if Putin raises the stakes.  Meanwhile, the sanctions are working. 



What do you think the sanctions are suppose to achieve? Hurt the Russian economy or stop Putin? Putin has not stopped and there is no sign of him wanting to stop. Russian Foreign Ministry below says sanctions will fail to achieve goals.


http://en.ria.ru/world/20140804/191708921/Sanctions-Applied-by-West-Will-Fail-to-Achieve-Goals.html


Putin has influence in Syria and Iran. He can promote mayhem in those regions to keep the focus off Russia and hurt the people hurting him.


Germany once endured worse than sanctions. With their economy and infrastructure shattered after WWI, they were forced to pay war reparations. It pissed the Germans off more. They gave their support to a fanatic named Hitler, worked hard to rebuild and become a military power, and were led to a greater war. Sanctions are pissing Russians off and Putin is gaining support and increasing the size of his military. With sanctions being the only thing the West is willing to do, Putin has plenty of time to build his empire. With the Ruble declining, Levi jeans will become more expensive to Russian citizens but it's not a necessary item needed in the production of guns and tanks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 06, 2014, 12:32:00 AM
Germany once endured worse than sanctions. With their economy and infrastructure shattered after WWI, they were forced to pay war reparations. It pissed the Germans off more. They gave their support to a fanatic named Hitler, worked hard to rebuild and become a military power, and were led to a greater war. Sanctions are pissing Russians off and Putin is gaining support and increasing the size of his military. With sanctions being the only thing the West is willing to do, Putin has plenty of time to build his empire. With the Ruble declining, Levi jeans will become more expensive to Russian citizens but it's not a necessary item needed in the production of guns and tanks.

Excellent post.  Too bad some of the cheerleaders on this forum are not capable of such critical thinking.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 06, 2014, 01:10:42 AM
With the Rouble in free fall, soon even eating dirt will become an unaffordable luxury for the average Russian citizen...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 06, 2014, 01:22:21 AM
With the Rouble in free fall, soon even eating dirt will become an unaffordable luxury for the average Russian citizen...

Wishful thinking.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 06, 2014, 02:23:10 AM

I like Poroshenko but he's in charge of a losing team. Prior to him showing up, Ukraine was a place of corruption and dysfunction. Putin is partially to blame for them being where they're at. They can change overnight.


Putin also has made good moves to achieve his objectives. Based on the recent sham elections in east Ukraine, Putin is one step closer to owning more land.




What do you think the sanctions are suppose to achieve? Hurt the Russian economy or stop Putin? Putin has not stopped and there is no sign of him wanting to stop. Russian Foreign Ministry below says sanctions will fail to achieve goals.


http://en.ria.ru/world/20140804/191708921/Sanctions-Applied-by-West-Will-Fail-to-Achieve-Goals.html


Putin has influence in Syria and Iran. He can promote mayhem in those regions to keep the focus off Russia and hurt the people hurting him.


Germany once endured worse than sanctions. With their economy and infrastructure shattered after WWI, they were forced to pay war reparations. It pissed the Germans off more. They gave their support to a fanatic named Hitler, worked hard to rebuild and become a military power, and were led to a greater war. Sanctions are pissing Russians off and Putin is gaining support and increasing the size of his military. With sanctions being the only thing the West is willing to do, Putin has plenty of time to build his empire. With the Ruble declining, Levi jeans will become more expensive to Russian citizens but it's not a necessary item needed in the production of guns and tanks.

You make far to many assumptions.

Sanctions were never going to be a 5 minute influence on Putin--or on Russian thinking. Sanctions and the impact will take time to really hit home and start changing Russian opinions.
To repeat-- the sanctions will be continually ramped up -in the long term it will leave Russia as isolated prior to the collapse of the USSR.

You are wrong about Putin having time-- he is on borrowed time now.
He is staking a lot on a military victory in Ukraine-- and that is now no where near as certain as previously. A loss-- or serious losses will see real pressure on Putin himself-- and of course on Russia in general.

For Ukraine--if time can be bought( at the cost of conducting a war in the east) it will give the new government the chance to start to govern-that is something they have hardly had the chance to do since getting rid of Yanukovytch & co.

One other point--if you BB persist in stating ridiculous ideas like you will believe in Ukrainians intent to fight when they attempt to take back the Crimea- is a truly ridiculous comment and totally misses the point that Ukraine is fighting to protect themselves and good Ukrainian lives are being lost- your attitude is disrespectful.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 06, 2014, 04:09:28 AM
Billy, Germany is not Russia.  Ukraine is not losing.  Ukraine gains allies everyday where Russia gets weaker and weaker.  Sanctions aren't supposed to deter Putin but to create incentives for his potential successor. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 06, 2014, 06:07:50 AM
With the Rouble in free fall, soon even eating dirt will become an unaffordable luxury for the average Russian citizen...



Items that have to be imported will only be expensive to Russians. They will ramp up manufacturing within their own country to suit their needs.


Sanctions were never going to be a 5 minute influence on Putin--or on Russian thinking. Sanctions and the impact will take time to really hit home and start changing Russian opinions.



Maybe the pro Putin's living in Russia can respond to your thoughts. Are they more pissed off with Putin or the West compared to how they felt 6 months ago?


To repeat-- the sanctions will be continually ramped up -in the long term it will leave Russia as isolated prior to the collapse of the USSR.



Cuba never did see it our way. Iran and North Korea will achieve their goals. Sanctions only delay the inevitable. It's not a question of "if" Iran and North Korea will manufacture nukes, it's a question of "when". Can anybody educate us on when sanctions worked on a country?


One other point--if you BB persist in stating ridiculous ideas like you will believe in Ukrainians intent to fight when they attempt to take back the Crimea- is a truly ridiculous comment and totally misses the point that Ukraine is fighting to protect themselves and good Ukrainian lives are being lost- your attitude is disrespectful.


Poroshenko said he's intent on taking back Crimea on day one. Unfortunately he later learned his military isn't capable. No matter how much you believe the Ukrainian fighting spirit will prevail, reality says they need outside help that so far hasn't arrived.


http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/05/26/364280/i-will-get-crimea-back-poroshenko/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 06, 2014, 06:14:42 AM
Wrong again.  Sanctions brought Iran to the bargaining table.  Also sanctions weren't meant to deter NK but isolate it.  Sanctions again aren't meant to topple Castro but punish Cuba.  Again Billy all wrong.  Meanwhile the dollar gets stronger while Putin presumably dying of cancer gets weaker.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 06, 2014, 07:01:43 AM
Wrong again.  Sanctions brought Iran to the bargaining table. 



While waiting the nuclear program advances, why not come to the table so Iran can get concessions from the West? After they make advances, they cut the locks off the reactor doors and shut off the surveillance cameras. They have been playing a game over and over with us for years.


  Also sanctions weren't meant to deter NK but isolate it. 



So we weren't trying to deter NK from getting nukes and the goal is punishing their people? Well then, NK is free to get nukes since nobody is deterring them from that goal.


  Sanctions again aren't meant to topple Castro but punish Cuba.



Did Castro give back the land he stole from foreign citizens? NO, so the sanctions didn't work. Anybody else wanna try to show a case where sanctions worked?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 06, 2014, 07:28:23 AM
Do you know how close Florida is to Cuba?  If sanctions aren't working why aren't New Yorkers building retirement homes there?  Again,  with respect to NK, sanctions were meant to isolate.  The fact it built a nuclear bomb when Clinton lifted sanctions are not that sanctions did not work its that some people were foolish enough to believe a leopard can change its spots.

You are depriving the West of its important weapon in siege warfare.  You have to have the stomach for it if you are going to wage it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 06, 2014, 11:20:18 AM
The Rubble/Ruble bounced off of 46.13.

 Then they have to find $30B next month for bond repos.

50 B for Yukos shareholders in January.
715 B budgeted for military stuff for the coming years.
They are using the rainy day funds planned for retirement pensions and health to support corporations like ROSNEFT
Crimea is in deep shiat. More $$$$$
They plan 2018 for the football championship so more stealing to come.$$$$


Sucks to be them.. :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 06, 2014, 11:57:57 AM
Wouldn't this just burn Putin's borscht... :P

Canada emerges as potential buyer of French-built Mistral-class warships

..."The Canadian military has emerged as a potential destination for the controversial French-built Mistral-class helicopter carrier ships, built for Russia, the International Business Times is reporting.

The possibility of a Canadian solution appeared in French media after French President François Hollande visited Canada this week, the newspaper reported.

This type of suggestion has surfaced before. Former Conservative Senator Hugh Segal suggested that Canada or NATO should buy the Mistral-class military assault ships rather than allow them to be added to the Russia naval fleet."...

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/11/06/canada-emerges-as-potential-buyer-of-french-built-mistral-class-warships/

There'd be a hell of a fight with Canadian shipbuilders though so I doubt it'll happen (without concessions). ::)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 06, 2014, 02:55:20 PM
The Sopranos with nukes are moving more missiles on the border.  If these bastards are winning, why do they need reinforcement during a ceasefire?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on November 06, 2014, 04:43:40 PM
What do you think the sanctions are suppose to achieve? Hurt the Russian economy or stop Putin? Putin has not stopped and there is no sign of him wanting to stop. Russian Foreign Ministry below says sanctions will fail to achieve goals.


http://en.ria.ru/world/20140804/191708921/Sanctions-Applied-by-West-Will-Fail-to-Achieve-Goals.html

Billy, that link is three months old.  For most world affairs I don't think that would matter, but in this case it does.  We've already had Russian Government officials admitting that the sanctions ARE hurting which, given the West's disinclination to provide practical help to Ukraine, is probably the only step in the right direction that we will see.  Only time will tell now if Ukraine can survive long enough to see the end of Putin - but it will still need help to do so.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 06, 2014, 04:58:03 PM
A new American President might have different ideas
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 06, 2014, 07:18:06 PM
Billy, that link is three months old. 



Today is no different than 3 months ago. The sanctions haven't achieved it's goals.


We've already had Russian Government officials admitting that the sanctions ARE hurting



Hurting Russia is not the goal of the sanctions. The goal of the sanctions is to discourage Putin from grabbing more land. There is belief that hurting Russia's economy will get Putin to give up his ambitions. I believe it pisses him off more. He's going to show the West he'll get what he wants and with the weak response from the West, he'll do it without a major military campaign.


Many Russians consider Putin is the man who got Russia back on it's feet after the USSR dissolved. His bold moves and tough guy stance towards the West only solidifies his standing among most citizens.


Here's current news. Russia is moving ballistic missiles on Ukraine's border. I wouldn't be surprised with east Ukraine's newly elected leadership, they'll be inviting Russia into their home.


http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-moving-rockets-towards-ukraine-battlefield-2014-11
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 06, 2014, 08:09:32 PM
Sadly I agree with Billy B's analysis.  If Russia wanted to they could likely get their land-bridge within a few days.  The current US administration would do nothing but talk and talk is cheap.  The current leaders in the EU don't like the harm being done to their economy.

I also agree with BB's assertion that sanctions alone are just making Putin and his crowd mad.  Last thing the world needs is an angry hornet's nest with Nuclear weapons.  He's probably getting ready to make a move.  The only thing holding him back is he is likely studying what effect the change in US leadership is going to have.  Without a real leader at the top the Congress alone is not able to protect Ukraine.

Another analyst (a real one, not an internet hero like us guys) I read thinks that Russia will invade next spring.  Either way without Ukraine getting the heavy weapons assistance they need I think it will be a miracle if their country remains intact.  Okay cheerleaders, start the hate session.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 06, 2014, 08:41:26 PM
With the Rouble in free fall, soon even eating dirt will become an unaffordable luxury for the average Russian citizen...

The idea of a 'free fall' or any sort of change, plus or minus, is with respect to other currencies.

This need not have any effect on the price of locally produced items.

Yes, it often does, strictly because those in control of locally produced items are hedging their bets against what might happen in the domestic economy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 06, 2014, 09:06:54 PM
Wouldn't this just burn Putin's borscht... :P

Canada emerges as potential buyer of French-built Mistral-class warships


Great news! I hope that's true...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 06, 2014, 09:42:23 PM
The idea of a 'free fall' or any sort of change, plus or minus, is with respect to other currencies.

This need not have any effect on the price of locally produced items.

Yes, it often does, strictly because those in control of locally produced items are hedging their bets against what might happen in the domestic economy.

The issue goes beyond local goods.  Those local goods that can be exported will be worth more in ruble terms, and Russian citizens would need to pay more for vodka, etc.  In fact, if Russia were a large exporter of manufactured goods, the devaluation would be helpful to the economy.  However, Russian exports are limited mostly to commodities.  I guess Russia will be selling more military weapons to India, etc.

I can only assume that the devaluation  would discourage investment, particularly foreign investment.  It would also encourage flight of capital.  Both of these are harmful to the economy over an extended period. 

So how are Putin's plans progressing for a currency exchange shared with China and India, creating something competitive to the dollar and Euro?  I can only guess the Chines want their Yuan back.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 06, 2014, 09:52:31 PM
Who in their right mind would want to invest there when the government is taking private business away and will not allow foreigner's to own more than 20%?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 06, 2014, 10:54:01 PM
Every day the Ruble falls is a great day for Ukraine. 

From my friend Anders Ostlund:
Russia's economy: No access to credit, no investments, no manufacturing, brain drain, sinking oil price, lower oil production expected.


China to invade Russia
http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.be/2014/11/window-on-eurasia-if-anyone-is-going-to.html?m=1


I predict Ukraine will invade and Occupy Moscow.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on November 06, 2014, 11:20:29 PM
As I inderstand not many of posters are involved in international markets. Othewise they would not believe too much in free ruble fall. Just a couple of facts for consideration:

1. Ruble was devaluated in 4 times in crisis in 1998.  Nothing happened, or at least all  consequences were forgot in a year.

2. Japanese yena declines against dollar by 44% for the last two years. It's more than ruble at the same time. Japan is heading for a crush? :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 06, 2014, 11:28:59 PM
Except the Nipponese aren't invading their neighbors and murdering them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 07, 2014, 04:08:55 AM
I wonder how the NATO troops training of the Ukrainian armed forces in western Ukraine is coming along ?

I suspect the Russians and their separatist mates are gonna have a huge shock if they try and advance further into Ukraine...and will probably also have real problems trying to hold the Donetsk and Lugansk regions.

Well-trained Ukrainian troops who are very pissed-off with Russia fighting Russian conscripts and mercenaries ..i'm not so convinced by the doom mongers on here about Ukraine's chances in this war.

None of us know if any advanced weapons have been supplied to Ukraine by NATO  countries.

How many of the armchair experts on here would want to face angry Ukrainians on the field of battle or in the war-torn cities ?

Ukrainians are a merciless bunch...especially when they're fighting for their families,their homes,their land i'd imagine.

Will make Bosnia seem like a walk in the park i suspect.

So,with the Russian economy tanking big-time and the Russian body-bags piling up in the trucks going back to Russia,let's see how long the Russian nationalistic worship for Putler lasts. .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 07, 2014, 05:54:15 AM
As I inderstand not many of posters are involved in international markets. Othewise they would not believe too much in free ruble fall. Just a couple of facts for consideration:

1. Ruble was devaluated in 4 times in crisis in 1998.  Nothing happened, or at least all  consequences were forgot in a year.

2. Japanese yena declines against dollar by 44% for the last two years. It's more than ruble at the same time. Japan is heading for a crush? :)

So by nothing happened you mean people lost their life savings?

Japan has experienced a second lost decade, cruising for a third.  But maybe this is prosperity in Putin's Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 07, 2014, 05:56:09 AM
Wishful thinking.

Not so wishful, but certain to students of history . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 07, 2014, 05:57:10 AM
Except the Nipponese aren't invading their neighbors and murdering them.

Retaking the Kurile Islands would be nice
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 07, 2014, 06:06:57 AM
I wonder how the NATO troops training of the Ukrainian armed forces in western Ukraine is coming along ?

I suspect the Russians and their separatist mates are gonna have a huge shock if they try and advance further into Ukraine...and will probably also have real problems trying to hold the Donetsk and Lugansk regions.

Well-trained Ukrainian troops who are very pissed-off with Russia fighting Russian conscripts and mercenaries ..i'm not so convinced by the doom mongers on here about Ukraine's chances in this war.

None of us know if any advanced weapons have been supplied to Ukraine by NATO  countries.

How many of the armchair experts on here would want to face angry Ukrainians on the field of battle or in the war-torn cities ?

Ukrainians are a merciless bunch...especially when they're fighting for their families,their homes,their land i'd imagine.

Will make Bosnia seem like a walk in the park i suspect.

So,with the Russian economy tanking big-time and the Russian body-bags piling up in the trucks going back to Russia,let's see how long the Russian nationalistic worship for Putler lasts. .

Agree.

It is a bit odd to have so many Putler admirers among the Ukraine side
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 07, 2014, 12:10:48 PM
Awww Shucks. More bad news!   :clapping:


EUR/RUB: 60,08. Доходил уже до 60.39
USD/RUB: 48,35. Доходил уже до 48.60
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Isthmus on November 07, 2014, 01:47:25 PM
I wonder how the NATO troops training of the Ukrainian armed forces in western Ukraine is coming along ?

I suspect the Russians and their separatist mates are gonna have a huge shock if they try and advance further into Ukraine...and will probably also have real problems trying to hold the Donetsk and Lugansk regions.

Well-trained Ukrainian troops who are very pissed-off with Russia fighting Russian conscripts and mercenaries ..i'm not so convinced by the doom mongers on here about Ukraine's chances in this war.

None of us know if any advanced weapons have been supplied to Ukraine by NATO  countries.

How many of the armchair experts on here would want to face angry Ukrainians on the field of battle or in the war-torn cities ?

Ukrainians are a merciless bunch...especially when they're fighting for their families,their homes,their land i'd imagine.

Will make Bosnia seem like a walk in the park i suspect.

So,with the Russian economy tanking big-time and the Russian body-bags piling up in the trucks going back to Russia,let's see how long the Russian nationalistic worship for Putler lasts. .

Agree with all of the above.

Psychology and motivation in warfare is never to be underestimated.  Ukrainians are fighting for the existence of their State as a functional State. Their nation doesn't have a future unless they win. The Ukies holding Donetsk Airport all understand this and that is why the Kremlin's Proxy Forces are breaking their teeth there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 07, 2014, 05:04:54 PM
Awww Shucks. More bad news!   :clapping:


EUR/RUB: 60,08. Доходил уже до 60.39
USD/RUB: 48,35. Доходил уже до 48.60

Looks like those sanctions will have the Kremlin's attention now, eh? Now's the time to ratchet it up a notch as well...

Dollar Shortages Spread Amid Russian Ruble Collapse

..."Rising demand for foreign currency meant U.S. dollars and euros were unavailable at some Russian banks and exchange points Friday as the ruble went into free fall during morning trading.

The Russian currency nosedived 3.8 percent against the dollar after markets opened, hitting a historical nadir of 48.64 against the greenback and shooting past the 60 rubles to the euro mark for the first time.

Analysts warned that Russia was standing on the verge of a full blown currency crisis amid signs of panic in the population, where memories of a plummeting ruble and runaway inflation during the 1998 default are never far away.

The dramatic rout meant the ruble had lost over 10 percent against the dollar in the 48 hours after the Central Bank announced Wednesday that it was capping market interventions to defend the ruble at $350 million a day.

While the ruble later bounced back, gaining 6 percent by mid afternoon on expectations that the Central Bank would be forced to act, the currency was still down 30 kopeks in the early evening, trading at just under 47 versus the dollar.

Physical Shortages

Russian retail banks reported a surge in demand for foreign currency on Thursday and Friday.

"The excess demand is 3-4 times more than the standard level of foreign currency purchased by individuals," VTB 24, the retail arm of Russia's second biggest banking group, told the TASS news agency Friday.

Attempting to exchange rubles for dollars at a VTB 24 in downtown Moscow at about 2 p.m. on Friday, a Moscow Times reporter was told that the branch had ran out of dollars, but was expecting additional shipments the following day.


At a nearby Sberbank, dollars were still being sold but the branch was flooded with so many customers looking to exchange currency that the ticket-based waiting system had stopped working."...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/dollar-shortages-spread-amid-russian-ruble-collapse/510803.html

I find it both ironic and amusing that with all the dis' talk about the US currency coming from inside Russia and Putin supporters that the first foreign currency the Russian population puts a run on to protect their own bank accounts is the US Greenback.   

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 07, 2014, 05:11:06 PM

Has The Russian Central Bank Thrown In The Towel?
         
The Central Bank of Russia (CBR) seems to have decided that it can’t beat the markets. On Wednesday November 5th, it announced an end to unlimited currency support interventions. It said it would spend a maximum $350m per day smoothing out fluctuations as the ruble approached the edge of a trading band. Once that limit was reached, the ruble would be allowed to fall out of the band. The final sentence of the CBR’s press release spells it out:


“As a result of the implementation of this decision, the ruble exchange rate will be determined predominantly by the market factors.

Game, set and match to the markets, apparently.

But wait. This game is by no means over. In my previous post, I said that the way for the central bank to remain in the game was to play it aggressively. Defensive strategies do not work when there are finite resources, since they simply attract speculative attacks. The CBR understands this:


“…the abandonment of unlimited foreign exchange interventions in the borders of the operational band will hamper prerequisites for speculative strategies against the ruble.

There is much less profit to be made from speculative attacks when the target refuses to defend against them. It’s a form of passive resistance, if you like.

Allowing the ruble to fall freely is an aggressive strategy on the part of the Russian central bank. And it is having the desired effect. Since the CBR’s announcement, the ruble has been in free fall, dropping by 11% in a week – and market players are panicking. Reuters reports that there are desperate calls for the central bank to intervene:


““This is full-blown panic, with signs of a self-fulfilling currency crisis,” Dmitry Polevoy, chief Russia economist at ING Bank in Moscow, said in a note. “At such times, the central bank should intervene, after all if this isn’t a risk to financial stability, then what is?”

The Russian official news agency ITAR-TASS reports that Russian households are converting rubles to other currencies:


“Russia’s two largest retail banks Sberbank  and VTB-24 admitted households’ increased demand for foreign currency over the past week. Specifically, VTB-24 said the demand had soared by 3-4 times, adding it had set aside foreign currency cash reserves in advance.




This is a bad sign. Increased domestic FX conversions are a serious risk factor for financial stability, since domestic banks can be bankrupted by excessive demand for FX liquidity. They are also a risk factor for hyperinflation.

But the CBR foresaw this:


“At the same time, in case of financial stability threats, the Bank of Russia will be ready to carry out additional interventions in the domestic foreign exchange market.

The CBR has no intention of allowing the ruble’s fall to cause a financial crisis. It will provide support on an ad hoc basis to calm panic and ease distress in domestic markets. Indeed it already seems to be doing so:

So the CBR has certainly not thrown in the towel. It has simply changed its game strategy. Now, far from attacking it, market players – both international and domestic – are looking to it for support. Game, set and match to the CBR.

Mind you, the CBR could still be defeated by the combination of falling oil prices and rising inflation. The possibility of domestic economic collapse is real, and there is little the CBR can do about it: if it raises rates to choke off inflation it weakens the economy further, but if it cuts rates to stimulate growth it risks an inflationary spiral. As in all countries, the fate of the domestic economy ultimately rests in the hands of politicians, not the central bank.

UPDATE: It’s not “game, set and match” to the CBR just yet. The ruble is falling again. It’s “game on”.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2014/11/07/has-the-russian-central-bank-thrown-in-the-towel/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 07, 2014, 05:34:54 PM
In the currency wars, Ukraine is kicking Russian butt but hey sanctions don't work, right?  Win win?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 07, 2014, 06:31:21 PM
The p/$ hit 48.5 in the morning then moved down to 46.5 and held steady there for the day.   Maybe the bottom has been hit.   The ruble can fall only so far with huge and steady dollar denominated revenues from oil sales. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 07, 2014, 06:50:45 PM
I only wish I have the technical expertise to play in the FX market. With the way the Rouble has been swinging lately there's gotta be some serious profit opportunities.

I wonder if the majority of the market speculators on the Rouble are western ledge fund managers or are they actual Russian investors trying to profit from the demise of the Rouble.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 06:56:35 PM
I only wish I have the technical expertise to play in the FX market. With the way the Rouble has been swinging lately there's gotta be some serious profit opportunities.

I wonder if the majority of the market speculators on the Rouble are western ledge fund managers or are they actual Russian investors trying to profit from the demise of the Rouble.

What is that?  Either way I am sure the Putin propaganda machine will spin it as America's fault.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 07:09:47 PM
The p/$ hit 48.5 in the morning then moved down to 46.5 and held steady there for the day.   Maybe the bottom has been hit.   The ruble can fall only so far with huge and steady dollar denominated revenues from oil sales.

Yet oil prices continue to drop.  How far away do you think Russia is from a repeat of 1998?

If the ruble continues to fall, and the price of oil continues to fall -- these two may just be what the Doctor ordered to save Ukraine from total Russian invasion.  Afterall it's simply not the same as 1956 when the Soviet Union could do what they wanted in Eastern Europe.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 07, 2014, 07:34:55 PM
  After all it's simply not the same as 1956 when the Soviet Union could do what they wanted in Eastern Europe.

I'm not so sure about that.  The  west seems to have no stomach for real resistance.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 07:54:59 PM
I'm not so sure about that.  The  west seems to have no stomach for real resistance.

I'm not referring to that.  I am referring to the fact that the Russian economy is now so intertwined with the Worlds economy.  It seems that the sanctions coupled with low oil prices might cause a total economic collapse in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 07, 2014, 08:17:01 PM
So you are reversing yourself.  Turns out sanctions work after all.  Win win
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 08:28:45 PM
So you are reversing yourself.  Turns out sanctions work after all.  Win win

I am not reversing my opinion.  I still agree with Billy's analysis, which is that the sanctions are making Putin mad and increasing his popularity in Russia.  If the sanctions stop Putin from an all out invasion of Ukraine I will be surprised but very happy.

And until the West gives Ukraine some proper weapons this thing is far from over.  Even if Russia does not invade the separatists are firmly entrenched in Donetsk and Lugansk and all indications are that Russia has been resupplying them.  Do you deny that?  Do you deny that just prior to the cease-fire the Russians had routed the Ukrainians?  Do you deny that the Russians have far better weapons at their disposal?  Do you deny that Russia could easily have air-superiority over Ukraine if they chose to?

Do you also deny that most of the remaining people in those areas are more loyal to Russia than they are to Ukraine?

I'm sure in your fantasy world it's better to just deny reality and claim you are pro-Ukraine and I'm not because I dare to engage in critical thinking.  You are closer to the Stalinists then you realize.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 07, 2014, 08:53:18 PM
Quote
Do you also deny that most of the remaining people in those areas are more loyal to Russia than they are to Ukraine?


I would deny that.  Most don't have the means to leave, and most just want the war to stop. 


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 07, 2014, 09:08:14 PM
I am not reversing my opinion.  I still agree with Billy's analysis, which is that the sanctions are making Putin mad and increasing his popularity in Russia.  If the sanctions stop Putin from an all out invasion of Ukraine I will be surprised but very happy.

And until the West gives Ukraine some proper weapons this thing is far from over.  Even if Russia does not invade the separatists are firmly entrenched in Donetsk and Lugansk and all indications are that Russia has been resupplying them.  Do you deny that?  Do you deny that just prior to the cease-fire the Russians had routed the Ukrainians?  Do you deny that the Russians have far better weapons at their disposal?  Do you deny that Russia could easily have air-superiority over Ukraine if they chose to?

Do you also deny that most of the remaining people in those areas are more loyal to Russia than they are to Ukraine?

I'm sure in your fantasy world it's better to just deny reality and claim you are pro-Ukraine and I'm not because I dare to engage in critical thinking.  You are closer to the Stalinists then you realize.

I have to disagree a little with your conclusions.  Particularly about the sanctions.  In the beginning I did not have any confidence they would have any affect.  While Putin publicly states that they are simply an annoyance, there is a lot of evidence they are having serious affects.  In fact, if they are ratcheted up they may well bring Russia to it's knees IMO.  It is currently nearly causing a currency collapse in Russia.  The public is converting to stronger currencies to the point that the banks are running out of them.  Another clue as to the affect of the sanctions is the response of many of the officials in the Kremlin.  They are bitching about them daily and making a big issue of it.  Putin can blow it off, but the rest of the government seems to be in near panic state and is getting into the news almost daily.

The silliness of the idea of Putin starting a nuclear war over Ukraine is just that....silly.  He is not going to risk the whole of Russia over Ukraine.  He did not have it before, and surely he is smart enough to realize that it would not be worth the costs.

Does anyone remember the Gulf War and how the coalition took out the military in rather short order?  First, a few planes with anti-radiation missiles go in and take out all the radar sites.  Anyone of them turned on and........poof.  No more ground fire at aircraft!  Next some close air support go in and take out the tanks, artillery, mortars, and terrorist camps.  The Ukrainians can clean up on the ground as the terrorists scramble for the border with good old Russia.

If Putin commits aircraft to the fight, he knows that the entire west will probably come to Ukraine's defense.   He would be stupid to do so.   Not to mention that at this stage every stinking ship he has in the region will become good target practice for the allies (including those in Sevastopol).

The only difficult issue remaining would be the terrorists that are holed up in the cities.  Unfortunately any that are left will have to be routed out with Ukraine troops.  I would think at this point they would be demoralized to the point of fleeing anyway.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 09:31:21 PM
If Putin commits aircraft to the fight, he knows that the entire west will probably come to Ukraine's defense.   He would be stupid to do so.   Not to mention that at this stage every stinking ship he has in the region will become good target practice for the allies (including those in Sevastopol).

I think this is wishful thinking although there may have been some confidential communications along this line from Washington DC and Europe that we don't know about.

Yes the sanctions are doing some damage, but as Doll and others have said, Russians are accustomed to hard times.  No I don't think Putin will use Nuclear weapons, but now that his economy is boxing him into a corner, there is a good chance he will indeed invade Ukraine in order to make his supporters happy.  That is the problem of the sanctions working well -- they make him decide to go ahead with it, because he knows if he doesn't then his time of being in power in Russia may quickly come to an end.

It's certainly going to be interesting to see what develops.  Even if he remains in power and does not commit to a full-scale invasion of Ukraine I don't think there is much doubt that he has now created a "frozen conflict" in the areas in question which will likely be there for many years to come.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 09:39:54 PM

I would deny that.  Most don't have the means to leave, and most just want the war to stop.

You said yourself that the perception of millions was that the events of Maidan did not represent their wishes.  If you watch the video posted by JohnDearGreen (vice news, Simon Ostrovsky) it's clear that the lady he interviews at the remains of the Museum has a perception that Donbass was always closer to the Russian Empire and then the USSR, and that W. Ukraine wanted to be closer to Europe.  It's clear that she believes what she is saying.  Perception is reality in most of the World.  What people perceive to be true for them, is what they perceive reality to be.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 07, 2014, 09:42:42 PM
I think this is wishful thinking although there may have been some confidential communications along this line from Washington DC and Europe that we don't know about.

Yes the sanctions are doing some damage, but as Doll and others have said, Russians are accustomed to hard times.  No I don't think Putin will use Nuclear weapons, but now that his economy is boxing him into a corner, there is a good chance he will indeed invade Ukraine in order to make his supporters happy.  That is the problem of the sanctions working well -- they make him decide to go ahead with it, because he knows if he doesn't then his time of being in power in Russia may quickly come to an end.

It's certainly going to be interesting to see what develops.  Even if he remains in power and does not commit to a full-scale invasion of Ukraine I don't think there is much doubt that he has now created a "frozen conflict" in the areas in question which will likely be there for many years to come.

Generally agree, however I would take with a grain of salt what Doll says.   While Russians have a history of enduring hardships in the past, most of what I read tells me that they have been getting used to a higher standard of living than those days.  I would suspect that a decline in their standard of living would have a similar reaction as the USA reducing welfare benefits to that crowd.   ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 07, 2014, 09:52:27 PM
You said yourself that the perception of millions was that the events of Maidan did not represent their wishes.  If you watch the video posted by JohnDearGreen (vice news, Simon Ostrovsky) it's clear that the lady he interviews at the remains of the Museum has a perception that Donbass was always closer to the Russian Empire and then the USSR, and that W. Ukraine wanted to be closer to Europe.  It's clear that she believes what she is saying.  Perception is reality in most of the World.  What people perceive to be true for them, is what they perceive reality to be.

True, however I did not get the sense from any of the women that they were radically pro-Russian.  The feeling I got from the interviews was they they just want the fighting to stop.  In fact, none of them came across to me as being particularly anti-Kiev.  It's natural that they lived in a more Russian culture and language and feel more comfortable in that environment.

It was funny when one of the shopkeepers was asked about closing up shop and going home...... her response "Give me the money and I will close up and go home".     ;D

One of the points that stuck out in my mind were the comments about Kiev outlawing the Russian language.  This women was still very angered by this action.  Clearly this was the most stupid mistake of the new Kiev government!  In fact, I think the new leadership should be reaching out much more to heal those wounds.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 07, 2014, 09:56:59 PM
Quote
Generally agree, however I would take with a grain of salt what Doll says.   While Russians have a history of enduring hardships in the past, most of what I read tells me that they have been getting used to a higher standard of living than those days.  I would suspect that a decline in their standard of living would have a similar reaction as the USA reducing welfare benefits to that crowd.   



I disagree.  I think Doll is absolutely spot on in her assessment. 


Quote
One of the points that stuck out in my mind were the comments about Kiev outlawing the Russian language.  This women was still very angered by this action.  Clearly this was the most stupid mistake of the new Kiev government!  In fact, I think the new leadership should be reaching out much more to heal those wounds.



Russian was never outlawed.  Its road to official language status was revised.


I think that would have been reversed in any event, to conform to EU standards.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 10:00:42 PM
True, however I did not get the sense from any of the women that they were radically pro-Russian.  The feeling I got from the interviews was they they just want the fighting to stop.  In fact, none of them came across to me as being particularly anti-Kiev.  It's natural that they lived in a more Russian culture and language and feel more comfortable in that environment.

It was funny when one of the shopkeepers was asked about closing up shop and going home...... her response "Give me the money and I will close up and go home".     ;D

One of the points that stuck out in my mind were the comments about Kiev outlawing the Russian language.  This women was still very angered by this action.  Clearly this was the most stupid mistake of the new Kiev government!  In fact, I think the new leadership should be reaching out much more to heal those wounds.

I noticed that too about her remarks about Russian language.  Whether it's true or not (I don't believe it's true after reading Stirlitz's comments) is not the point.  The point is that she perceives it to be true.  She also perceived that there was not a middle ground.  Clearly Putin and Russia have manipulated opinions.  Yet perception is reality.  Also what she perceives is that Ukrainian forces are deliberately shelling them.  The other women said the shelling has been daily, even during the ceasefire.  You must admit there has been very limited Western reporting about this.  The people there apparently feel that the government in Kiev is trying to kill them.  How would you or I feel if we were stuck there?  I agree they all want the fighting to stop.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 07, 2014, 10:04:16 PM


Russian was never outlawed.  Its road to official language status was revised.


I think that would have been reversed in any event, to conform to EU standards.


I am aware of that and agree with you.  However the perception of the Russian speakers is that it was outlawed.  They probably do not even know today the truth.  I can understand their reaction.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 08, 2014, 02:00:42 AM
I am aware of that and agree with you.  However the perception of the Russian speakers is that it was outlawed.  They probably do not even know today the truth.  I can understand their reaction.

The problem I have with this being continually repeated is it gives it credence to something that is simply incorrect.
The reality is--the whole issue was trumped up by those with an  agenda that sort to create discontent.
Even today-many in the east are clueless as to who is attacking them.
Never forget-- a majot tenant of Russian propaganda is to cause confusion and not let people know the reality.
When you hear people in the east interviewed--it is abundantly clear that they are bye and large clueless as to what is going on.That is also evident with those that fled to Russia-- only having access to Russian lies and propaganda.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 08, 2014, 04:56:24 AM
AC, its good that you agree with me that sanctions are working.  Your failure to address Calimissile's assessment of Western support for Ukraine in the face of further escalation and your failure to properly assessment of popular sentiment in the occupied territories leads one to think you're ashamed of your earlier confused ramblings.  A simple retraction and apology would suffice, but I understand your pride is on the line.

Ukraine is free.  They will bear any burden, support any friend and pay any price to defend that freedom.  Would that we would demonstrate such a commitment.  If the words expressed here are any reflection of Western sentiment, it is easy to see, why such a commitment is not forthcoming.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 08, 2014, 08:00:14 AM
AC, its good that you agree with me that sanctions are working.  Your failure to address Calimissile's assessment of Western support for Ukraine in the face of further escalation and your failure to properly assessment of popular sentiment in the occupied territories leads one to think you're ashamed of your earlier confused ramblings.

This, coming from you.

 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 08, 2014, 10:53:13 AM
This report seems to be quite a stretch.. :rolleyes:

Russian expert: The dollar will be worth 200 rubles
Yesterday, 16:27 2117

 All the worst yet to come Managing Director of the investment company Finam Management Solabuto Nicholas said that by March the dollar will cost about 200 rubles. TOPICExpert: The Flight of the Russian currency has become panicky nature Moscow, November 07 (New Region, Vasilisa Egorova) - Managing Director of the investment company Finam Management Nicholas Solabuto TV channel Rain said that by March the dollar will cost about 200 rubles. According Solabuto, the reason for the fall of the ruble will become cheaper oil and sanctions, because of which it is necessary to pay the debts of Russia, who took us in the West. "All of the worst we have to survive until the New Year. After the New Year will begin recovery of the economy. But this is the most terrible, really terrible, we assume that the dollar will stabilize somewhere in the region of 200 rubles, "- said the director of Finam

http://nr2.com.ua/News/world_and_russia/Rossiyskiy-ekspert-Dollar-budet-stoit-200-rubley-84152.html
© HP2
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 08, 2014, 04:39:44 PM
Better get use to the idea of carrying your roubles around in a wheelbarrow!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 08, 2014, 07:24:57 PM
Ukraine is a great country.  Getting better everyday.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 08, 2014, 09:19:06 PM
Ukraine is a great country.

We can certainly agree on this.  You should read the George Soros article coming out this month.  Ukraine is far more important to the rest of the World than ISIS, IMO.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 10, 2014, 11:52:33 AM
Moscow shrouded in noxious gas

Maybe because Putin gave a speech?    :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 Or


Residents of parts of the Russian capital Moscow have been urged by the emergencies ministry to stay indoors because of a noxious gas that is spreading through the city.

The source of the gas is unclear - no accidents have been reported at any of Moscow's chemical factories.

Media reports said that the gas was hydrogen sulphide, which can be highly toxic and smells like rotten eggs.

It has been smelt in central, eastern and south-eastern parts of the city.

The gas was also detected in the capital's main shopping areas and around the parliament building, reports said.

Russia's emergencies ministry blamed the problem on a failure at a Moscow oil refinery, Interfax reported. However, the refinery's owner Gazprom Neft said there had been no accident and the levels of hydrogen sulphide at the plant were not excessive.

An earlier report suggested that the foul-smelling gas was coming from a network of facilities treating urban wastewater.

Natalya Gorelova, a 25-year-old resident of north-west Moscow, told the BBC she first noticed the gas on her way to her work in the south-west of the city during the morning.

"I have smelt the toxic gas all day. I'm at home now and I closed the windows. We are sitting at home, but I have a headache."

Exposure even to low concentrations of hydrogen sulphide can lead to headaches, dizziness and nausea, experts say.

"Since 11:00 this morning I have sensed a bad smell everywhere I go," one Muscovite tweeted, "whether at home, in the street or at work. "I thought I was getting sick and having [a] hallucination."

Weather experts quoted in the Russian media say that the effects of the gas have been made worse because the current conditions in Moscow are "not conducive to the rapid dispersion of pollutants in the air".


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29990375
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 13, 2014, 09:55:25 AM
More "Cargo 200" trucks crossing the border.

Ukraine crisis: Russian 'Cargo 200' crossed border - OSCE

..."Vehicles apparently used to transport soldiers' bodies have been seen crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border, monitors from Europe's security body have said.

The OSCE monitors said in one case a vehicle marked "Cargo 200" - Russia's military code for soldiers killed in action - crossed from Russia into Ukraine on Tuesday and later returned."...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30039004

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 13, 2014, 11:05:26 AM
Ahhh well,at least plenty of Russian troops will have been having free holidays in Ukraine.

They can't pay for their vacations if they're dead.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 13, 2014, 11:46:17 AM

The boys threatened to take away the military tickets and tokens.

Conscripts refused to go into battle in Luhansk  At the border with Ukraine Rostov region of Russia conscripts refused to fight in the Donbas contract.

This was stated by the executive secretary of the "Union of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia" Valentina Melnikova.

She said that one soldier lieutenant colonels gathered at the test site at Rostov and required them to sign contracts and to go to the East of Ukraine to participate in the fighting, but the boys refused.

"That's recruits there (in Rostov - Ed.) Opposed the signing of the contract as a lieutenant colonel, a goat named Medynskyy on the ground at Rostov told them that" you are everything I sign a contract, I have taken out military tickets, pick up chips and we send you to Lugansk "And the guys protested," - said in an interview Melnikov Russian newspaper " Novaya Gazeta ".

Such "rebels" among Russian conscripts counted 250 families of five of them immediately complained to the "Union of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia" and the boys were not sent to war.

"We have complained that illegally forced to sign a contract. I got a good answer Chief of the Defence Ministry personnel that commanders to sign any contracts are not eligible. Therefore, all 250 contracts are not signed," - summed up the human rights activist Melnikov.

As previously reported, "Soldiers' Mothers of Russia" was named the number of dead Russian soldiers in battles in the Donbas.

http://tsn.ua/svit/u-rostovi-250-prizovnikiv-zbuntuvalisya-proti-nakazu-voyuvati-v-lugansku-pravozahisnicya-391487.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 13, 2014, 02:09:02 PM
And according to RT even Switzerland's joining the civilized world by upholding the EU's sanctions (something they don't normally do).

Switzerland confirms latest EU sanctions against Russia

..."Switzerland has stepped up restrictions against Russia and signed up to the latest package of EU sanctions against the country’s largest banks and major oil companies.

"In view of the situation in Ukraine, and following decisions taken by the EU, the Federal Council today decided to adopt further measures to prevent the circumvention of international sanctions," the Swiss Federal Council said in a statement on Wednesday.

Switzerland hasn’t formally joined the EU sanctions, but supports the key points. It has tightened up the restrictive measures on five Russian banks and six companies that include the country’s biggest lenders Sberbank and VTB, as well as oil majors Rosneft and Gazprom Neft."...

http://rt.com/business/205059-switzerland-joins-sanctions-russia/

I got a kick out of a comment posted responding to this article...

"Good idea, and if they did that the burning remnants of Russia's economy would keep Europe nice and warm"

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 15, 2014, 09:39:02 AM
Well, if the little guy didn't get the message before, he's got it now...

Stephen Harper at G20 tells Vladimir Putin to 'get out of Ukraine'

Annual summit dominated by Western anger towards Putin

..."Stephen Harper had a showdown with Vladimir Putin on Saturday, telling the Russian leader to "get out of Ukraine" in a dustup at the Group of 20 summit in Australia.

Harper's spokesman, Jason MacDonald, said the prime minister was speaking to a group of G20 leaders at a private leaders' retreat on Saturday morning when Putin approached and extended his hand.

MacDonald said Harper told Putin: "I guess I'll shake your hand but I have only one thing to say to you: You need to get out of Ukraine."...

..."According to MacDonald, Putin did not respond positively. He didn't provide further details."...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/stephen-harper-at-g20-tells-vladimir-putin-to-get-out-of-ukraine-1.2836382

“More sanctions? I'm off”: Putin leaves G20 early after being blasted over Ukraine

..."Russian President Vladimir Putin has decided to wave goodbye to his fellow G20 summit attendees a day early, after they criticised Russia's involvement in Ukraine and threatened to impose more sanctions on Moscow.

Western leaders from both Europe and North America berated Russia for its part in the recent escalation of military activity in Ukraine, where 4,000 lives have been claimed since the conflict began.

The summit currently taking place in Brisbane, Australia, is supposed to last for two days, but Putin has decided to skip a working session on Sunday and bring forward his departure. Speaking to Reuters, a member of his delegation said this was because he needed to attend meetings in Moscow."...

http://www.cityam.com/1416066568/more-sanctions-im-putin-leaves-g20-early-after-being-blasted-over-ukraine

Putin Will Leave G20 Summit Early After West Blasts Moscow Over Ukraine

..."Russian President Vladimir Putin plans to leave the G20 summit early after Western leaders lambasted him Saturday over the crisis in Ukraine and threatened further sanctions."...

http://time.com/3587185/putin-g20-russia-ukraine/

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 15, 2014, 10:28:07 AM
Ask Harper if he wants to be President.  The process can't be anymore illegal than what we have right now . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 15, 2014, 02:02:50 PM

The summit currently taking place in Brisbane, Australia, is supposed to last for two days, but Putin has decided to skip a working session on Sunday and bring forward his departure. Speaking to Reuters, a member of his delegation said this was because he needed to attend meetings in Moscow."...

http://www.cityam.com/1416066568/more-sanctions-im-putin-leaves-g20-early-after-being-blasted-over-ukraine


He left early because he's accustomed to people fawning all over him, not confronting him about being the dishonest little weasel that he is.  Bravo to Harper!   :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 15, 2014, 02:33:48 PM
He left early because he's accustomed to people fawning all over him, not confronting him about being the dishonest little weasel that he is.  Bravo to Harper!   :clapping:

Poor little boy got shunned.       :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 15, 2014, 09:06:47 PM
Why Russia May Not Be Able To Save The Ruble
The Economist 11/15/2014 BUSINESS INSIDER


Every central banker knows the importance of trust. In a world of fiat currencies--bank notes backed by nothing other than more bank notes--shoppers and firms must have confidence that cash will retain its value in order to hold it.

That trust is being tested in Russia, where the rouble has fallen 23% against the dollar in the past three months.

Such a plunge inevitably brings inflation in the form of more expensive imports, a worry given that consumer prices in Russia are already rising at over 8% a year. Yet in recent weeks there have been creeping signs of something scarier. Faced with a clamour for dollars, Russia's banks have raised the rates they pay on dollar deposits to try to suck some in. Demand for safety-deposit boxes is up, suggesting customers are hoarding foreign currency.

The head of the Central Bank of Russia, Elvira Nabiullina, is struggling to nip this trend in the bud. First, on November 5th, she hiked interest rates, to 9.5%. That means that rouble deposits earn far more than dollar ones, which should make the currency more attractive. Next, she attempted to deter bets against the rouble by replacing the central bank's puny and predictable sale of $350m a day in its defence with the threat of far bigger ad hoc interventions. Finally, she crimped commercial banks' access to roubles to limit their ability to speculate against the currency.

Ms Nabiullina needed to be bold. The rouble's slide has deep causes, none of which will go away. The first is oil. In the first half of 2014 Russia's exports brought in $255 billion, with 68% of that coming from sales of oil and natural gas. During that period oil prices averaged $109 a barrel; today they are close to $80. Applying a proportional cut to Russia's energy exports would slash revenues by over $40 billion, more than wiping out Russia's current-account surplus.

In most economies a big depreciation boosts demand for local products: as foreign goods get pricier shoppers pick domestic alternatives. But Russia's recent history makes such substitution difficult. The transition from Soviet subsidies to market-based agriculture was not a smooth one: production of beef, pork and poultry in Russia and Ukraine fell from almost 13m tonnes in 1991 to just 5m in 2001.

Although there have been some recent improvements (notably in grain production), Russian farming is still hugely inefficient. The result is that many imports--meat, milk, eggs--have few domestic substitutes. Wholesalers that import these goods need dollars to buy them, putting pressure on the rouble.

There are other reasons to sell roubles and buy dollars. Across the economy there is over $120 billion in external debt maturing in the next year according to central bank data. Roughly a third of this is owed by banks, and the remaining two-thirds by other firms. Some of these outfits--notably Russia's energy giants--have dollar revenues.

A big chunk of the remainder, including the banks, do not. Since sanctions prevent many Russian companies from borrowing abroad to refinance these dollar debts, this creates sustained demand for dollars. With chunky repayments due in December, there could be another rouble rout before the end of the year.

The dependence on Western markets and currencies pains Vladimir Putin, Russia's president. On November 10th he signed a deal with Xi Jinping, his Chinese counterpart, that will see Russia export gas from Siberia to China via new pipelines. The deal provides a huge new source of demand, and could see China replace Europe as Russia's main export market. In addition, an agreement to start trading in yuan rather than dollars will cut demand for America's currency.

But the pipelines will take years to be built and financing for the project has yet to be secured. In the meantime Russia may have to cope with low oil and gas prices for years.

On November 12th a new set of forecasts from the Energy Information Administration, an American government agency, said that oil prices are likely to average $83 a barrel in 2015. On the optimistic assumption that the price will rise to $90 a barrel, Ms Nabiullina still forecasts zero growth and 8% inflation for 2015. Russia's rouble crisis looks far from over


http://www.businessinsider.com/why-russia-may-not-be-able-to-save-the-ruble-2014-11#ixzz3JCKJKtaj
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 16, 2014, 08:28:57 AM
We should all have learned by now when the Kremlin denies something, the opposite fact is likely to be true...
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-president-denies-fled-summit-pressure-101813471.html

"On Monday I must go to work. I hope to have four or five hours to sleep," Putin said shortly before leaving Brisbane.

Looks like the little man can't do without his beauty nap!
This won't be helping with his macho man image if losing a day's sleep is going to affect him that much.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 16, 2014, 11:21:41 PM
France says they are not going to deliver the Mistral warships because Russia has violated the terms of the Minsk ceasefire:

http://zik.ua/en/news/2014/11/16/france_not_to_cow_to_russias_demands_to_deliver_mistrals_540957
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 16, 2014, 11:31:09 PM
SBU: 7,500 Russian troops and 25,000 local rebels fighting in Donbas

There are 7,500 Russian regular troops in the rebel-controlled territories of Donbas, adviser to Ukraine security service chief, Markian Lubkivsky, said Nov. 13, speaking on 1+1 Kanal TV late night.
 
 “There are 10 battalion tactical groups of the Russian army totaling 7,500,” he said.

 The number of local separatists’ forces is about 25,000, he confirmed.

The operations of Russian reconnaissance groups all over Ukraine have intensified, he said, with SBU effectively exposing and liquidating them, Lubkivsky said.


 :devilish:

http://zik.ua/en/news/2014/11/14/sbu_7500_russian_troops_and_25000_local_rebels_fighting_in_donbas_540449
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 17, 2014, 12:43:34 PM
Weak ruble puts Moscow development projects on hold:


excerpt
At least two Chinese construction and development projects in Moscow were reportedly postponed last week as the depreciation of the ruble, which has fallen over 30 percent to the dollar since the beginning of the year, hit the firms' cost estimates.

On Wednesday, City Hall said Chinese companies that had earlier planned to build one of the Moscow metro lines were putting the project on hold due to the ruble's extremely volatile exchange rate.

In May city authorities signed an agreement with China Railway Construction Corporation and China International Fund to build a line of the Moscow metro in the city's southwestern region, a would-be segment of the gigantic second metro ring to become operational by 2020.

The line's estimated cost was set at $2 billion. In addition to building the metro, the Chinese firms would have the option to develop the estimated 2 million square meters around the six-future metro stations.

But the project so far has been postponed due to "the strengthening dollar," Marat Khusnullin, deputy Moscow mayor in charge of construction and development, said Saturday.

"Our preliminary agreement with Chinese investors was that the payment for the metro construction would be in dollars, but that currency has strengthened and we are now re-calculating the costs and have so far agreed to pay out in yuan," Khusnullin said.

Other Chinese investors last week had more salt rubbed in the wound by deciding against investment in one more large project: the redevelopment of the vast territory of the historic ZiL auto factory, news reports said.


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/511300.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 17, 2014, 01:40:07 PM
And the obligatory expulsion of diplomats has now started :rolleyes: ...

Poland, Russia expel diplomats in tit-for-tat spying scandal

..."WARSAW, Poland -- Russian and Polish officials confirmed Monday that they have carried out tit-for-tat diplomatic expulsions in an espionage affair that highlights intensified efforts by Moscow to penetrate NATO counties and a new determination by the West to fight back.

As tensions grow over Russia's military incursions in Ukraine, espionage also appears to be returning to Cold War levels. Russia and several NATO members have been accusing each other of stepped up spying, with diplomats allegedly playing key roles in the activity.

Russia's Foreign Ministry said that Polish authorities took the "unfriendly and unwarranted step" of expelling some of its diplomats -- and that Moscow retaliated by kicking out Polish diplomats.

"In connection with this, the Russian side has undertaken adequate response measures, and a number of Polish diplomats have already left our country because of activities incompatible with their status," the Russian Foreign Ministry said, using diplomatic jargon for spying."...

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/poland-russia-expel-diplomats-in-tit-for-tat-spying-scandal-1.2105337#ixzz3JMNm0Q4r

Russia orders out Polish and German diplomats in tit-for-tat expulsions

..."Russia said on Monday (November 17) that several of its diplomats had been expelled from Poland, and that a number of Polish diplomats had left Russia, after Moscow retaliated against Warsaw. On Saturday, Germany reported that one of its diplomats had ordered to leave the Russian capital, following a German decision to expel a Russian diplomat working in Bonn."...

http://www.euractiv.com/sections/health-consumers/russia-orders-out-polish-and-german-diplomats-tit-tat-expulsions-310065

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 17, 2014, 01:50:45 PM
Atta Boy Vlad!

 Isolate yourself more! :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 18, 2014, 03:30:55 PM
Russian satellite photos of the Ukrainian pilot that shot down the Malaysian Airliner.

I guess I was wrong.  :snivel:



Russian military satellite recorded face Ukrainian pilot who shot down the Malaysian Boeing. Recall that the Ukrainian military July 17 was shot down aircraft airline Malaysia Airlines, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Now is not the slightest suspicion that Boeing was hit by the Ukrainian side.


 Despite the poor quality of the picture, it is clearly seen Avenging happy face showing a satellite camera obscene gesture. According to Russian criminologists, passenger liner first gun was fired from a distance of 50 kilometers, and then on the cockpit rocket was fired "air-to-air." The original version of that military pilot just wanted to knock his cap with the captain of the liner and thus make a joke, was not confirmed. Obviously, the Ukrainian punisher deliberately wanted to bring down the plane Malaysian airlines to avenge oil imports by Malaysia at 60% is purchased from Russia.

Currently in Russia into the air terrorism and genocide of Russian criminal case, in which the Ukrainian satellite photo of the pilot will be sent to Interpol.

 


http://novosti-online.info/kiselev-nyus/413-rossiyskiy-sputnik-zafiksiroval-lico-letchika-sbivshego-malaziyskiy-boing.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 18, 2014, 03:33:04 PM
And then again... NOT Quite

Fighter jet crash victim Lt. Col. Morris Fontenot Jr., seasoned F-15 pilot, decorated combat veteran

By CHAD CAIN

Staff Writer
 
Friday, August 29, 2014
 (Published in print: Saturday, August 30, 2014)
 
The pilot who died in an F-15C fighter jet crash Wednesday was a seasoned pilot and decorated combat veteran who moved to western Massachusetts earlier this year to join the 104th Fighter Wing.

Officials at the Barnes Air National Guard Base in Westfield on Friday identified Lt. Col. Morris Fontenot Jr. as the pilot who died from injuries sustained when his plane crashed in the remote mountains of western Virginia on Wednesday.

Fontenot, 41, whose friends and family called him “Moose,” had flown the F-15 for more than 17 years, worked at Barnes as an F-15 instructor pilot and was the full-time wing inspector. With more than 2,300 flight hours, Fontenot was a decorated combat veteran who earned many medals and awards in recognition of his service.

He lived in Longmeadow with his wife, Kara.

“We all continue to keep the Fontenot family in our thoughts and prayers during this very difficult time,” Col. James Keefe of Northampton, 104th Fighter Wing Commander, said in a statement.

 
   

 
As State Police blocked media representatives from visiting the family’s home on Clairmont Street in Longmeadow Friday afternoon, one of Fontenot’s neighbors said he was saddened by the news.

“When a friend of mine who works at the base told me it was my neighbor, I just said ‘Oh, no,’ ” said Clairmont Street resident Michael Palazzi, a recreational pilot who keeps his four-seat aircraft at the hangar at Westfield-Barnes Airport.

Palazzi said the Fontenots moved in about four months ago and were still settling into the neighborhood. He said he occasionally spoke with “Moose” and his wife in passing, but did not know him that well.

“We talked in the street and I invited him over to use my tools whenever he wanted,” Palazzi said in an interview by cell phone on his way to the airport.

According to records in the Hampden County Registry of Deeds, the Fontenots bought the house in January.

Pilots are a small community and the news of Fontenot’s death hit Palazzi hard.

“We kind of bond together,” Palazzi said. “To hear anybody go down like that is devastating. It’s very disheartening to comprehend the crash.”

A 1996 graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy, Fontenot had most recently served as commander of the 67th Fighter Squadron based in Kadena Air Force Base in Japan. He served as a squadron commander at multiple locations. Following active-duty assignments in Washington, D.C., Japan, Idaho, Florida, Alaska and numerous deployments in the Middle East, Fontenot joined the Massachusetts Air National Guard in February, according to base officials.

Facebook pages of people who either work at or are affiliated with the 104th in Barnes were full of condolences and sympathetic messages after officials identified Fontenot, including one from photographer Scott Bellone who said he had Fontenot’s wife, family and friends in his thoughts and prayers.

Bellone said he took several pictures of Fontenot earlier this summer at Barnes, one in which the fighter pilot flashed a “victory” sign and another in which a bag labeled “Moose” could be seen in the jet behind him. Bellone said he would likely head to the Westfield-Barnes Regional Airport Friday afternoon to be around others.

Reporters Gena Mangiaratti and Eric Goldscheider contributed to this story. Chad Cain can be reached at ccain@gazettenet.com.

http://www.gazettenet.com/home/13336274-95/fighter-jet-crash-victim-lt-col-morris-fontenot-jr-seasoned-f-15-pilot-decorated-combat
   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on November 18, 2014, 05:03:55 PM
Russian satellite photos of the Ukrainian pilot that shot down the Malaysian Airliner. Russian military satellite recorded face Ukrainian pilot who shot down the Malaysian Boeing. Recall that the Ukrainian military July 17 was shot down aircraft airline Malaysia Airlines, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Now is not the slightest suspicion that Boeing was hit by the Ukrainian side.


 Despite the poor quality of the picture, it is clearly seen Avenging happy face showing a satellite camera obscene gesture. According to Russian criminologists, passenger liner first gun was fired from a distance of 50 kilometers, and then on the cockpit rocket was fired "air-to-air." The original version of that military pilot just wanted to knock his cap with the captain of the liner and thus make a joke, was not confirmed. Obviously, the Ukrainian punisher deliberately wanted to bring down the plane Malaysian airlines to avenge oil imports by Malaysia at 60% is purchased from Russia.

Currently in Russia into the air terrorism and genocide of Russian criminal case, in which the Ukrainian satellite photo of the pilot will be sent to Interpol.

http://novosti-online.info/kiselev-nyus/413-rossiyskiy-sputnik-zafiksiroval-lico-letchika-sbivshego-malaziyskiy-boing.html

This has to be the most amazing fighter jet of all time - the satellite photo was taken from below the aircraft!   :ROFL:  It must also have amazing weaponry if the first gun was fired 50 kilometres from the airliner (and, presumably, hit it!).

How can anyone with the remotest knowledge of aviation (and that includes 95% of the Russian population) possibly believe any of this drivel?  And, seriously, Mike, your second post isn't even needed, even though it's nice to know the real source of the photo.  Just a shame that it was included in an obituary.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 18, 2014, 05:47:49 PM
 It took a bit of time to find out whose picture it was.

 I'm sure that the good Col. will appreciate debunking the myth.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 18, 2014, 06:02:35 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-18/putin-said-to-back-crackdown-on-corruption-as-sanctions-bite.html

Is Putler volunteering to walk himself and his cronies into prison and throw away the keys?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 18, 2014, 06:07:14 PM
Let the thieving begin!  Huilotin steal more from Krym!

Russia Delivers a New Shock to Crimean Business: Forced Nationalization

Business in Crimea has taken a beating since the peninsula’s annexation by Russia. Crimea’s tourism industry collapsed, and companies were cut off from vital suppliers and customers in Ukraine. Now comes the latest blow: nationalization.

From bakeries to shipyards, Crimea’s Kremlin-backed government is moving aggressively to take over businesses that it deems “inefficient,” strategically important, or friendly to the government in Kiev.

Krymkhleb, the peninsula’s biggest bread and confectionery maker, was nationalized on Nov. 12 by government authorities who accused its owners of laundering money to finance military operations against pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine. A company that supplies flour to Krymkhleb also was taken over.


Also on Nov. 12, authorities seized a resort complex owned by the holding company of Serhiy Taruta, a Ukrainian oligarch who replaced the former pro-Russian governor of Ukraine’s Donetsk region for several months earlier this year. Crimean authorities said the resort was seized because its management had illegally blocked public access to nearby park lands.

Another recent target was Zaliv, Crimea’s largest civilian shipbuilder. In late August, men describing themselves as Crimean “self-defense” forces stormed the company’s headquarters in the port of Kerch and demanded that management hand over control to a Moscow-based company. “Currently, representatives of the legitimate government of [Zaliv] are not allowed to perform their functions,” the company said in a statement on its website, adding that its activities have been “completely blocked.” No official reason was given for the seizure, but Russian authorities have said they want to overhaul Crimea’s shipbuilding industry.


 For much more about the heist read the rest here
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-11-18/crimea-gets-renationalized

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-11-18/crimea-gets-renationalized

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 18, 2014, 10:27:47 PM
The way Moscow is handling the people of Crimea, is a lot like 'fascism', isn't it? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 18, 2014, 11:14:49 PM
Oh Horrors NO!  :wallbash: Didn't you read Parvda.ru? The fascists are in Kyiv not Krym!  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 19, 2014, 12:58:51 AM
Analysis of Putin and Russia, as well as the war in Ukraine:


http://www.bloomberg.com/video/putin-how-savvy-is-he-in-managing-global-perceptions-tDSJoBs2Qha2nmdpWPlCaQ.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 20, 2014, 10:55:46 AM
Wow...no wonder Russian society has a distorted view of their government's  invasion of Ukraine and the corner Putin's painted Russia into.

I was perusing news articles regarding the US VP's visit to Kiev (looking for a glimmer of hope that the US might be changing their policy on supplying defensive weaponry). I looked in on Pravda.ru (English) and my jaw dropped glancing the headlines.

"Russia warns USA against supplies of lethal weapons to Ukraine"

...Ok, not so bad and expected. Then there's these little gems...

"Russia prepares nuclear surprise for NATO"

"Russia takes complete advantage of castrated armed forces of the West"

"Putin stands alone to chaos in Ukraine and US/EU impudence"

"Rosneft offers Putin program of massive sanctions against the West"

"France unwilling to act like USAs poodle with Russia'

http://english.pravda.ru/russia/kremlin/20-11-2014/129090-russia_usa_lethal_weapons-0/

Assuming the Russian version of this pablum is being disseminated to the general population these folks are in for one hell of a shock if/when the balloon does go up.  :rolleyes:

And in other news France has started restricting the Russian crew access to the Mistrals...  :P

Russian Sailors Were Denied Access To The Mistral Warship They're Buying From France

..."Russian sailors were denied access to the Mistal helicopter carrier in Saint-Nazaire shipyard on Monday, according to reports in the French media."...

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-sailors-denied-access-to-mistral-warship-from-france-2014-11#ixzz3JdFabV7K

Brass

Edit: Sorry mods my bad. This should have gone to 'The Propaganda War' thread.


 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 20, 2014, 12:10:23 PM
Russian Capital Flight May Hit $130 Billion, Finance Minister Says.   :clapping:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-capital-flight-may-hit-130-billion-finance-minister-says/511340.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 20, 2014, 03:29:15 PM
Exclusive: U.S. increasing non-lethal military aid to Ukraine


By Warren Strobel and Patricia Zengerle

WASHINGTON  Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:40pm GMT
 
(Reuters) - The United States plans to increase non-lethal military assistance to Ukraine, including deliveries of the first Humvee vehicles, having decided for now not to provide weapons, U.S. officials said.

The new non-lethal aid Biden will present in Kiev includes Humvees from excess supplies in the Pentagon's inventory, as well as the delivery of previously promised radars that can detect the location of enemy mortars, officials said. They did not specify a dollar value for the assistance.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/11/20/us-ukraine-crisis-usa-exclusive-idUKKCN0J426U20141120

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 20, 2014, 03:30:06 PM
Obama adviser: Arms for Ukraine ‘on the table'
By Kristina Wong - 11/19/14 05:42 PM EST

A top Obama adviser said Wednesday that the administration is considering lethal arms for Ukraine and said he believed it could deter Russia from further aggression against the Eastern European nation.


http://thehill.com/policy/defense/224768-obama-adviser-arms-for-ukraine-on-the-table
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 20, 2014, 03:35:00 PM
Of course Russia says it's OK for them to add fuel to the fire BUT no one else is allowed to!  :wallbash:  :deadhorse:


Russia warns US not to arm Ukraine forces against pro-Russian rebels 
Moscow hits back at US official’s suggestion as vice-president Joe Biden arrives in Ukrainian capital Kiev for talks

Russia has warned the United States against supplying arms to Ukrainian forces fighting pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, hours before US vice-president Joe Biden was due to arrive in Kiev on Thursday.

Ukraine accused Vladimir Putin of treating its territory like a “playing field“, trying to unleash a full-scale war that would pose a broader threat to Nato countries.

Russian foreign ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said in Moscow that a US official’s suggestion Washington should consider sending arms to Ukraine, where pro-Russian rebels have been fighting government forces since April, sent a “very serious signal“.

Lukashevich cautioned against “a major change in policy of the (US) administration in regard to the conflict” in Ukraine.

“That (would be) a direct violation of agreements reached, including (agreements reached) with the participation of the United States,” he said.

The United States backs Kiev in its struggle against the pro-Russian separatists in two eastern regions and has imposed sanctions on Russia over its policies.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Jeffrey Rathke said the United States is “continuing to assess how best to support Ukraine” and “nothing is off the table” including lethal aid. “I think if we’re talking about destabilization, we have to start with Russia’s actions and the separatists that are backed by Russia,” Rathke added.

Moscow supports the separatists but denies it is backing the rebels with arms and troops in a conflict which the United Nations says has killed more than 4,300 since mid-April.

The UN said the death rate in the conflict had grown in the past eight weeks despite a ceasefire underpinned by the Minsk Accord, signed on September 5 by Russia, Ukraine and rebels from the Ukrainian separatist regions of Donetsk and Luhansk.

Swiss diplomat Heidi Tagliavini, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe’s envoy to a Trilateral Contact Group on Ukraine, cited reports of new military buildup. “The outlook is still bleak,” she said.

Barack Obama’s choice to fill the number two spot at the State Department, Anthony Blinken, told a congressional hearing on Wednesday:

“I believe that, given the serious Russian violations of the agreement that they signed...that one thing that could hopefully get them to think twice and deter them from further action is strengthening the capacity of the Ukrainian forces, including with defensive lethal equipment.“

Blinken said he was sure provision of lethal assistance would come up for discussion during Biden’s visit to Kiev.

Ukrainian prime minister Arseny Yatseniuk said the west and Ukraine had a common interest in preventing a large-scale war.

“Putin’s actions are a threat to everyone, the global order, global peace, a direct threat to the EU and Nato member countries,” he told a news conference.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/20/russia-warns-us-ukraine-forces-russian-rebels
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 20, 2014, 03:39:33 PM


 Sorry mods my bad. This should have gone to 'The Propaganda War' thread.


Problem is that there are to many choices where to place more bad news for Russia!

It is remarkable that Putin has been able to get away with his fiction this long.
 
In the more bad news category-- Russia has been a huge buyer of gold in this last period-- a last

ditch attempt to get rid of the thin air rouble before it becomes completely worthless.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 20, 2014, 04:32:10 PM
People vote with their feet.  There are 400 million Slavs.  How many of them took an English class?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 20, 2014, 06:05:54 PM
If I can figure out how to read Russian thru Google translate then they've already done it to too.
 Heck there's even apps for phones to translate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 20, 2014, 09:07:45 PM
I have good news and it needs to be verified. I got it from a tweet by Girkin.

Putin will be having a family reunion here in Boston, ON THANKSGIVING DAY. Petro Poroshenko will join him there for a holiday feast. Putin's ex will also be there with their two daughters, AND, Poroshenko will also bring his family- his wife and four kids. It's been rumoured that Petro will try to communicate the ideas behind the new Ukrainian celebration days of 'freedom' and 'dignity'. If he can help Putin understand these ideals, maybe Putin will reconsider Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and then move on to brandy with eggnog, pumpkin pie, etc. ...Let's pray for an enjoyable Thanksgiving for all!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 21, 2014, 12:18:29 AM
I have good news and it needs to be verified. I got it from a tweet by Girkin.

Putin will be having a family reunion here in Boston, ON THANKSGIVING DAY. Petro Poroshenko will join him there for a holiday feast. Putin's ex will also be there with their two daughters, AND, Poroshenko will also bring his family- his wife and four kids. It's been rumoured that Petro will try to communicate the the ideas behind the new Ukrainian celebration days of 'freedom' and 'dignity'. If he can help Putin understand these ideals, maybe Putin will reconsider Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and then move on to brandy with eggnog, pumpkin pie, etc. ...Let's pray for an enjoyable Thanksgiving for all!
is it a joke?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 21, 2014, 12:23:12 AM
Hahaha
Putin in Boston with ex and Poroshenko! On thanksgiving!
Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 21, 2014, 12:30:20 AM
Photo Guy, please verify
OMG hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 21, 2014, 01:09:34 AM
PG, just for you because I am kind today- Putin will NEVER celebrate American national holiday (remember Thanksgiving is ONLY American?), next, in this situation he will NEVER step on the USA soil, nor he will bring his kids here. Poroshenko can do what he wants on his own
So I saved you time for "verifying "
It is the most stupid joke I have ever heard
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 21, 2014, 01:12:52 AM
Doll,
the humor was intended!!!!
I'm glad you enjoyed it.
 :clapping:
By the way, the women I know in Ukraine understand 'dry' humor, and satire.
I thought you would too....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 21, 2014, 01:14:20 AM
We call it " flat humor"
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 21, 2014, 01:16:37 AM
Your lack of humor is 'stupid'   :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 21, 2014, 01:20:18 AM
Your lack of humor is 'stupid'   :crackwhip:
You are right
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 21, 2014, 01:21:32 AM
PG, just for you because I am kind today- Putin will NEVER celebrate American national holiday (remember Thanksgiving is ONLY American?), next, in this situation he will NEVER step on the USA soil, nor he will bring his kids here. Poroshenko can do what he wants on his own
So I saved you time for "verifying "
It is the most stupid joke I have ever heard

I believe this is not true.  From what I understand, it is also celebrated in Canada albiet on a different date.

BTW, is hubby anxious to move to Russia with you when you go back?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 21, 2014, 02:06:38 AM
Better bring back a wheelbarrow to cart those soon-to-be worthless Roubles around...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 21, 2014, 02:48:35 AM
В России доллар опустился ниже 46 рублей
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html

http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html


ECONOMICS / FINANCE
In Russia, the dollar fell below 46 rubles 21.11.2014 | 10:40

The euro exchange rate against the ruble fell by 23 kopecks to 57.66 rubles.
ru.wikipedia.org
Ruble began to go up on Thursday / ru.wikipedia.org
The dollar exchange rate against the ruble on the Moscow Stock Exchange as of 10:10 MSK on Friday fell 20 cents compared to the previous day's close and reached 45.95 rubles., reports Tass.

The euro exchange rate against the ruble fell by 23 kopecks to 57.66 rubles.

Thus the cost of currency basket consisting of 0.45 euros and 0.55 dollars, decreased by 21 kopecks to 51.22 rubles.

MICEX Index (MICEX) at the opening of trading on the Moscow Stock Exchange on Friday rose 0.1% to reach 1,531.48 points.

Ruble began to go up on Thursday, supported attempts oil prices adjusted upwards, the lack of negative side of geopolitics, and tax payments and fears of intervention by the CBR.
Read more on the UNIAN: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html

 ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 21, 2014, 02:51:36 AM
В России доллар опустился ниже 46 рублей
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html

http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html


ECONOMICS / FINANCE
In Russia, the dollar fell below 46 rubles 21.11.2014 | 10:40

The euro exchange rate against the ruble fell by 23 kopecks to 57.66 rubles.
ru.wikipedia.org
Ruble began to go up on Thursday / ru.wikipedia.org
The dollar exchange rate against the ruble on the Moscow Stock Exchange as of 10:10 MSK on Friday fell 20 cents compared to the previous day's close and reached 45.95 rubles., reports Tass.

The euro exchange rate against the ruble fell by 23 kopecks to 57.66 rubles.

Thus the cost of currency basket consisting of 0.45 euros and 0.55 dollars, decreased by 21 kopecks to 51.22 rubles.

MICEX Index (MICEX) at the opening of trading on the Moscow Stock Exchange on Friday rose 0.1% to reach 1,531.48 points.

Ruble began to go up on Thursday, supported attempts oil prices adjusted upwards, the lack of negative side of geopolitics, and tax payments and fears of intervention by the CBR.
Read more on the UNIAN: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html

 ;D

Russia's international reserves for the week decreased by $ 800 million
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1011885-mejdunarodnyie-rezervyi-rossii-za-nedelyu-sokratilis-esche-na-800-mln.html
http://economics.unian.net/finance/1011885-mejdunarodnyie-rezervyi-rossii-za-nedelyu-sokratilis-esche-na-800-mln.html

Capital outflows from Russia reached maximum values ​​- this month took $ 28 billion
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1011970-ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-dostig-maksimalnyih-znacheniy-za-mesyats-ushlo-28-mlrd.html

http://economics.unian.net/finance/1011970-ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-dostig-maksimalnyih-znacheniy-za-mesyats-ushlo-28-mlrd.html
Net capital outflow from Russia in 2014 could reach $ 130 billion
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1010309-chistyiy-ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-v-2014-godu-mojet-dostich-130-mlrd.html
http://economics.unian.net/finance/1010309-chistyiy-ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-v-2014-godu-mojet-dostich-130-mlrd.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 21, 2014, 11:12:11 AM
It sucks to be them..  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 21, 2014, 12:01:00 PM
The Brits are flexing some military muscle now...

British army in Nato Black Eagle exercise

..." The British army is taking part in its largest armoured deployment to Eastern Europe in six years, in a show of support, the Ministry of Defence says.

More than 1,000 military personnel and 100 armoured vehicles have joined Nato's Black Eagle exercise in Poland.

The MoD said it showed the British army's ability to deploy "at short notice anywhere in the world" in support of its allies.

The exercise comes amid tensions with Russia over its actions in Ukraine.

The British army's "lead armoured battle group" of 1,350 troops and 100 armoured vehicles from the 3rd UK Division are taking part - making it the UK's largest commitment to the region since 2008."...

..."It's been almost a decade since British tanks were last seen rolling across the plains of Eastern Europe.

In northern Poland they have been back in force in a scene reminiscent of the Cold War era.

This is the furthest east in Europe British tanks have been.

And it's a direct response to the actions of a near neighbour - Russia's intervention in Crimea and eastern Ukraine."...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30142764

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 12:10:08 PM
The Brits are flexing some military muscle now...

British army in Nato Black Eagle exercise

..." The British army is taking part in its largest armoured deployment to Eastern Europe in six years, in a show of support, the Ministry of Defence says.

More than 1,000 military personnel and 100 armoured vehicles have joined Nato's Black Eagle exercise in Poland.

The MoD said it showed the British army's ability to deploy "at short notice anywhere in the world" in support of its allies.

The exercise comes amid tensions with Russia over its actions in Ukraine.

The British army's "lead armoured battle group" of 1,350 troops and 100 armoured vehicles from the 3rd UK Division are taking part - making it the UK's largest commitment to the region since 2008."...

..."It's been almost a decade since British tanks were last seen rolling across the plains of Eastern Europe.

In northern Poland they have been back in force in a scene reminiscent of the Cold War era.

This is the furthest east in Europe British tanks have been.

And it's a direct response to the actions of a near neighbour - Russia's intervention in Crimea and eastern Ukraine."...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30142764

Brass

Nice to see the UK finally flexing their muscles again in the area.  Let's hope that if Putler tries to get his land-bridge that they actually fulfill their obligations of the Budapest Memorandum and send those tanks into Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 21, 2014, 12:18:11 PM
Nice to see the UK finally flexing their muscles again in the area.  Let's hope that if Putler tries to get his land-bridge that they ( and the other signers ) actually fulfill their obligations of the Budapest Memorandum and send those tanks into Ukraine.


FITY!  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 21, 2014, 12:27:19 PM
Yep, I agree with both sentiments.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 12:47:13 PM

FITY!  :D

Mike,
I'm going to assume you meant FTFY (fixed that for you) and while I wholeheartedly agree, without a strong POTUS I am very happy to see the UK over there right now, ready to be injected into Ukraine if need be.  As well I'm very happy to see Canada involved with providing Ukraine needed ambulance trucks and other supplies. 

I see a parallel back to WWII when Hitler invaded Poland and it was the British back then that stood up to him and slowly got the rest of the World to support those efforts.

I wonder if the timing of Biden being over there has anything to do with Ukraine now making steps to become part of NATO?  Either way that's a good move, but hats off to the British for having real tanks and elite troops nearby.  I hope the message is not lost on Putin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 21, 2014, 01:27:46 PM
Hopefully the US will supply Ukraine with military hardware after the new Congress meets in January.  Based on Obama's latest stunt with immigration I'm not sure how Congress will be able to pull it off, but here's hoping and dreaming.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 21, 2014, 01:31:32 PM
We're all on the same page guys!  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 21, 2014, 02:34:14 PM
We're all on the same page guys!  :clapping:

Not me.  Three reasons:

1.  If America provides modern weapons to Ukraine's military, Putin has the evidence to prove to his citizens that America is the enemy.   Remember that Putin must create an external enemy to keep his support.  Putin received initial support from his citizens because he was protecting Russians from Ukrainian fascists.   He continues to point to America as being complicit in Ukraine.   Putin says that Russia needs to stand up against the world order being created by America. 

2.   Ukrainian troops know how to operate Russian equipment, not American weapons.  Thus, if we gave them American arms, we would need to send American troops to train Ukrainian troops how to use the weapons.  Putin could use this as a reason to invade all of Ukraine, and it would happen long before Ukrainian troops were trained in how to operate the American weapons.   

3.  I still assert that this is Europe's mess and Europe needs to find a solution.  Europe has the most to gain with an economically viable and politically stable Ukraine.  Besides we are busy with ISIL, Iran, ebola, etc.

There is still much America can do to help Ukraine other than to arm its military.  Humanitarian aid and business investment are certainly needed.    And we could pay secretly for shipments of Russian-type weapons to Ukraine from countries who purchase weapons from Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 21, 2014, 02:45:58 PM
I seriously doubt that there would be very much transition time to adapt to other styles of weapons. The US wouldn't just toss them off the plane and leave. There would be training if it's already not underway now. Don't forget that UA has already helped with NATO projects.

ISIL ebola makes the headlines, but there's been 5K deaths from ebola. Over 4K deaths from this invasion so far. ISIL? They've shown some PR heavy beheadings and mass hysteria, but fewer deaths than the other headline problems.
 Russia has a serious potential to spread over Europe as well as worldwide if their threat of nukes ever comes about.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 21, 2014, 03:25:17 PM
How about if US/ EU/NATO buys Russian equipment directly from the "Separatists", perhaps for half what it cost Russia, forcing Russia to replace it?  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 04:24:29 PM
Not me.  Three reasons:

1.  If America provides modern weapons to Ukraine's military, Putin has the evidence to prove to his citizens that America is the enemy.   Remember that Putin must create an external enemy to keep his support.  Putin received initial support from his citizens because he was protecting Russians from Ukrainian fascists.   He continues to point to America as being complicit in Ukraine.   Putin says that Russia needs to stand up against the world order being created by America. 

2.   Ukrainian troops know how to operate Russian equipment, not American weapons.  Thus, if we gave them American arms, we would need to send American troops to train Ukrainian troops how to use the weapons.  Putin could use this as a reason to invade all of Ukraine, and it would happen long before Ukrainian troops were trained in how to operate the American weapons.   

3.  I still assert that this is Europe's mess and Europe needs to find a solution.  Europe has the most to gain with an economically viable and politically stable Ukraine.  Besides we are busy with ISIL, Iran, ebola, etc.

There is still much America can do to help Ukraine other than to arm its military.  Humanitarian aid and business investment are certainly needed.    And we could pay secretly for shipments of Russian-type weapons to Ukraine from countries who purchase weapons from Russia.

Shooting a LAW (light anti-tank weapon) is incredibly easy.  I don't know about the current anti-tank weapons, but I think you are not giving enough credit to the intelligence of the Ukrainians.

As to the rest of your post it makes me think of Neville Chamberlain and his attempt to appease the Nazi's.  Winston Churchill took over after that and the rest is history.  You are being really naïve if you think that Putin is going to stop without military action by the West to stop him.  Again I'm glad that the British are there; and the sooner the war turns hot the sooner the little guy can be stopped.  He's going to find a way to provoke the West either way -- that's what he wants.  You're simply delusional if you think that Europe alone is going to be able to negotiate with this guy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 04:28:56 PM
I seriously doubt that there would be very much transition time to adapt to other styles of weapons. The US wouldn't just toss them off the plane and leave. There would be training if it's already not underway now. Don't forget that UA has already helped with NATO projects.

Ukrainian soldiers fought with the British and Americans and the rest of the coalition partners already in Iraq.  To say that they cannot fight or cannot learn how to fire a Javelin anti-tank weapon is absurd.  Ukrainian civilians with only rocks and sticks beat back Russian thugs armed with guns in Odessa.  It's their country and they are more than capable of getting the job done with the proper weapons.


excerpt
"The Javelin system is deployed and ready to fire in less than 30 seconds and the reload time is less than 20 seconds."

Unlike conventional wire guided, fibre-optic cable guided, or laser beam riding missiles, Javelin is autonomously guided to the target after launch, leaving the gunner free to reposition or reload immediately after launch.

A soft launch ejects the missile from the launch tube to give a low-recoil shoulder launch. The soft launch enables firing from inside buildings or covered positions. Once the missile is clear, the larger propellant in the second stage is ignited and the missile is propelled towards the target. The weapon has two attack modes, direct or top attack.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/javelin/



Ukrainian's who served in Iraq:

"An independent contingent, consisting of 1,650 troops from the 5th Mechanized Brigade, was deployed to Kut (South Central Iraq) in late 2003. In May 2005, the brigade was replaced with the 81st Tactical Group, numbering around 900 troops.[94] A training team of around 40 troops remained in Diwaniyah until December 9, 2008.[95] The deployment was then reduced continuously until the remaining 44 troops were pulled out on December 22, 2005.[96] This fulfilled a long-planned withdrawal pledged by newly elected President Viktor Yushchenko. Ukraine suffered 18 fatalities: twelve in attacks, three in accidents, two in suicides and one as a result of a heart attack, while 33 were wounded or injured.[97] Early in 2004, three Ukrainian engineers were taken hostage in Iraq but were freed shortly after."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 04:54:46 PM
Russian cannot stop oil prices from continuing to fall:


http://www.voanews.com/content/russia-can-do-little-to-shore-up-falling-oil-prices/2527630.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 21, 2014, 05:59:48 PM
Not me.  Three reasons:

1.  If America provides modern weapons to Ukraine's military, Putin has the evidence to prove to his citizens that America is the enemy.   Remember that Putin must create an external enemy to keep his support.  Putin received initial support from his citizens because he was protecting Russians from Ukrainian fascists.   He continues to point to America as being complicit in Ukraine.   Putin says that Russia needs to stand up against the world order being created by America. 

2.   Ukrainian troops know how to operate Russian equipment, not American weapons.  Thus, if we gave them American arms, we would need to send American troops to train Ukrainian troops how to use the weapons.  Putin could use this as a reason to invade all of Ukraine, and it would happen long before Ukrainian troops were trained in how to operate the American weapons.   

3.  I still assert that this is Europe's mess and Europe needs to find a solution.  Europe has the most to gain with an economically viable and politically stable Ukraine.  Besides we are busy with ISIL, Iran, ebola, etc.

There is still much America can do to help Ukraine other than to arm its military.  Humanitarian aid and business investment are certainly needed.    And we could pay secretly for shipments of Russian-type weapons to Ukraine from countries who purchase weapons from Russia.

1/  Because Putin says it does not make it a fact!!( except in the minds of a few delusional forums fools).Putin's big bluff to keep the west from helping Ukraine is that he will escalate-- and I do not doubt he will do that regardless--but delaying help from the west is assisting Putin's ambitions.Putin pointing the finger at the USA is a diversionary strategy deliberately designed to turn attention from the Ukrainian peoples desire for a future free of of the past inadequacies of an association dominated by Russia.
Gator-- your comments allow Putin to continue setting the agenda in his own way ( G-aimed at the general conclusions reached by a few  & not just you !)
2/  Better equipment will assist the Ukrainian forces greatly-- right now they are in grave danger of being overrun because they are effectively out gunned ( take note that they are suffering heavier losses now as the Russians have been pouring in men and equipment that is superior to previously) As others have said-- Ukrainians will adapt quick enough-- but--if it means training them with western instructors-I am 100% for it.
Putin knows his troops are potentially vulnerable-- the west needs to call that bluff.It cannot be a 5% call--it needs to 100% effort without prior announcements  eg  pour equipment in plus whatever else is needed and keep saying a few instructors have been sent!!
3/ It is a worlds mess--Putin is a threat to world stability--not just Europe .
Your call is 200 years out of date-- no country is an island when it comes to world affairs. We are all citizens of the world and cannot ignore the mindless murder of innocent people.
Your attitude would turn a blind eye to the holocaust-- as the world did again in the breakup of Yugoslavia where ethnic extermination revisited Europe. Taking that chance again and ignoring Putin now will prove a huge mistake for the world.
Confronting him now-- when you have willing forces on the ground-- desperately in need of help-- makes a lot more sense than allowing Putin's nazis free reign.


In other posts--I posted links to a former Putin advisors comments-- they need to be read  as they dispel any notion that any of Putins invasions this year were ad-hoc spur of the moment ideas . It is basically a 7/8 year old plan -probably created when the potential of the democratic process was shown with the Orange revolution  to be a danger to the kleptocrats in Ukraine & Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 21, 2014, 08:51:56 PM

USA Ukraine passed three protivominometnyh Radar


It is planned to transfer the Ukrainian military 20 such radars.
The US military was brought to Ukraine first three light protivominometnye radar system, which will go on the arms of the Ukrainian army . This was announced on Friday, November 21, Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren, passes Ukrinform .
TOPIC

Yesterday, 15:50
"Radar systems see approximation mortar fire and quickly calculate the position of the enemy" - explained Warren.
According to him, the Ukrainian military themselves determine where and when they will use these systems.
The press service of the Pentagon said it is the first batch of radar systems, which likely will include 20 units and they will be delivered in the next few weeks.
American military experts will begin training Ukrainian colleagues in mid-December.
Radar systems - part of comprehensive care in the amount of US $ 118 million, provides for the provision of equipment and training of the Ukrainian military.
"We are working closely with the Ukrainians in the process of interagency cooperation,"
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 01:54:24 AM

Merkel runs out of patience with Putin

The Globe and Mail
JOANNA SLATER


    
 At a Hilton hotel last week in Brisbane, Australia, they talked for six hours, at first without any aides or other officials present.

But whatever transpired at the late-night meeting between Russian President Vladimir Putin and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the outcome wasn’t heartening. In a speech in Australia two days later, the normally measured Ms. Merkel was blunt.

The crisis in Ukraine was not just a regional matter, but something that affects “all of us,” she said. Russia’s actions represented an unacceptable return to a Cold War paradigm of dividing the world into spheres of influence, she added, with worrisome consequences for countries such as Moldova, Georgia and the countries of the western Balkans. Moreover, Europe, the United States and others must remain united in inflicting economic pain on Russia, she said, for what could be a very long time.

She remarked pointedly that Germany had observed several notable anniversaries this year, including the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. “All of a sudden we see ourselves confronted with a conflict that seems to be an attack against the very heart of our values,” Ms. Merkel said. “We have to prove that we’ve learned something from the past.”

German Chancellor Angela Merkel was shaken when Russian President Vladimir Putin coldly admitted to her that he had sent troops into Crimea.© Fabrizio Bensch/Reuters German Chancellor Angela Merkel was shaken when Russian President Vladimir Putin coldly admitted to her that he had sent troops into Crimea.   
Ms. Merkel’s straight talk is a sign that she has lost patience with Mr. Putin, with whom she has spoken more than 30 times since the crisis began. She has been a chief proponent of continuing dialogue with the Russian leader, but in her latest remarks, she indicated that Western countries also need to start preparing for the long haul. “This is not something that is going to end no matter what the settlement of the issue in Ukraine,” said Joerg Forbrig, an expert on eastern Europe at the German Marshall Fund of the United States. “Russia is basically driving a systemic confrontation here. She senses that.”

Mr. Putin, 62, and Ms. Merkel, 60, were both shaped by their experiences of the Cold War, with radically different results. A theoretical physicist and the daughter of a pastor in East Germany, Ms. Merkel emerged as a conservative politician with an abiding commitment to the right to self-determination.

Mr. Putin “recognizes Merkel as the only really strong person in this crisis, not Obama,” said Stefan Meister, a Russia expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations in Berlin. “He believes Obama is a very weak politician.”

Ms. Merkel is also not easily provoked. “The alpha-male thing is something Putin always wins,” Mr. Forbrig said. “Merkel doesn’t go there. He’s driven nuts by the calmness that she has. It doesn’t give a surface for friction.”

The two leaders have no need for interpreters. Ms. Merkel speaks Russian after growing up in East Germany; Mr. Putin speaks German after serving as a KGB agent in Dresden. Their relationship is not close, experts say, but professional. There have been a few notable tensions along the way: Back in 2007, during a meeting at his country home, Mr. Putin reportedly let his black Labrador loose, knowing Ms. Merkel harbours a fear of large dogs.

Yet Mr. Putin appears to have miscalculated Ms. Merkel – and Germany. While the country has strong economic ties to Russia, to the tune of €77-billion ($107-billion) in annual trade, its government has been a leading voice in favour of sanctions. German business lobbies have complained vociferously about the impact of the trade restrictions, but Ms. Merkel has stated that the costs of the government’s policy to corporations are outweighed by the costs of doing nothing. The German public is backing her up. Ms. Merkel’s approval ratings, after nearly a decade as Chancellor, touched an all-time high in September. A poll conducted in November found that 77 per cent of Germans felt that Russia couldn’t be trusted as a partner.

Gernot Erler, a member of Germany’s parliament, the Bundestag, who acts as its liaison to Russia, said that a recent trip to Moscow showed signs of a continually deteriorating dialogue. The fact that Germans are “not willing to accept the annexation of Crimea as a reunification comparable to that in Germany leaves our Russian interlocutors puzzled,” he said. Mr. Erler added that for the first time ever, members of the Russian parliament, the State Duma, are systematically refusing to have any contact with their German colleagues.

“The Germans have for many years had the illusion they could act as a bridge” between Russia and the West, asserted Mr. Forbrig of the German Marshall Fund. “That illusion was shattered this year. Whatever the Foreign Ministry or government tried in the way of mediation ultimately failed.”

Ms. Merkel’s task now, he said, is to rally other European countries to support a further round of sanctions should Mr. Putin take further aggressive moves in Ukraine, as now seems highly likely. She can also prepare for other contingencies: how Europe would react to a shut-off of natural gas supplies from Russia, for instance, or how it will counter Russian pressure on countries such as Moldova, who want closer ties with the EU.

Ms. Merkel, for her part, believes the road will be a long and difficult one. “Those that put the right of the stronger before the strength of the law” must not be allowed to prevail, she said earlier this week in Australia. And just because the crisis cannot be solved with military force does not mean there is no solution, she added.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/merkel-runs-out-of-patience-with-putin/ar-BBf7KgJ?ocid=BDT5DHP
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 22, 2014, 10:00:21 AM
Mr. Putin, 62, and Ms. Merkel, 60, were both shaped by their experiences of the Cold War, with radically different results. A theoretical physicist and the daughter of a pastor in East Germany, Ms. Merkel emerged as a conservative politician with an abiding commitment to the right to self-determination.

Mr. Putin “recognizes Merkel as the only really strong person in this crisis, not Obama,” said Stefan Meister, a Russia expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations in Berlin. “He believes Obama is a very weak politician.”

Ms. Merkel is also not easily provoked. “The alpha-male thing is something Putin always wins,” Mr. Forbrig said. “Merkel doesn’t go there. He’s driven nuts by the calmness that she has. It doesn’t give a surface for friction.”

A very wise lady.  I've often admired her.  She doesn't make excuses, she doesn't play the usual gender games that American female politicians play when they can't get their way.  Like most Germans her education is stellar and she is prepared and just goes about her business.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 22, 2014, 10:37:43 AM
A question for Russians:
Why do Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine and other neighboring countries want to belong to NATO?

Answer: They are AFRAID of Russia.
They are NOT afraid of France, Germany, the USA, Poland, ...the 'West'.

I too admire Merkel. She's the opposite of Putin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 22, 2014, 10:50:03 AM
A question for Russians:
Why do Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine and other neighboring countries want to belong to NATO?

Answer: They are AFRAID of Russia.
They are NOT afraid of France, Germany, the USA, Poland, ...the 'West'.

I too admire Merkel. She's the opposite of Putin.

Self determination I believe is the strongest human desire that there is.  Just as each individual person wishes to self-determine their lives and their futures, nations especially wish to determine the life and the future of their nation.  While the EU fromework is not perfect it is certainly preferred to what Russia offers.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 22, 2014, 02:58:02 PM
Good article about how Putler may be running out of chips in his game of poker with the West.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-wounded-economy-is-on-the-verge-of-a-crisis-2014-11?IR=T
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 22, 2014, 04:42:35 PM
Good article about how Putler may be running out of chips in his game of poker with the West.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-wounded-economy-is-on-the-verge-of-a-crisis-2014-11?IR=T

Article touches on numerous key issues-- the main one being Putin's stupidity and ongoing gamble(bluff) that the west cant do without Russia.
At some point the scales will tilt permanently against Putin-- where the current western losses and potential losses as a result of Russian connected investment  will be outweighed by the possiblity of in effect picking up the losses when the collapse of the Russian economy sees the same assets and more available at a much lower price to acquire.
As it stands now--  cash reserves are in the dangerous level-- and in fact are insufficient to meet obligations in the next year. Something has to give--and thanks to the Kremlin putting it's head in the sand it will be dramatic.
Particularly of interest is if Ukraine can hold on militarily in the short term -- and force Russia into a protracted battle.The irony is that part of Putin's war on Ukraine strategy was to break Ukraine economically-- and it may in fact do exactly that to Russia itself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 22, 2014, 06:00:58 PM
Funny how many of you grasp any article that supports your POV, as if it is some sacred 100% fact telling story.
I wonder how many of you would have same position if Ukraine didn't offer their women as a possible partner or as many of you call a 'hot smoking novas'. Gator made some valid points looking more into long term what effects certain decisions now will eventually become( likely). My thoughts is a can of worms would open up with US being directly involved in the War.......with Ukraine and 'separatists' becoming an after thought.

Spend a few days with the Red Cross dealing with the civilians injured/dying in eastern Ukraine and wonder will it end...or just escalate!! Sad, so sad.... :-[

I just recently saw a program about the war between Russia and Afghanistan, and how US was covertly involved( yet denying it) buying 'Russian made' weapons from Egypt to give to Mujahideen to fight the Russian army.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 22, 2014, 06:47:08 PM
Funny how many of you grasp any article that supports your POV, as if it is some sacred 100% fact telling story.
I wonder how many of you would have same position if Ukraine didn't offer their women as a possible partner or as many of you call a 'hot smoking novas'. Gator made some valid points looking more into long term what effects certain decisions now will eventually become( likely). My thoughts is a can of worms would open up with US being directly involved in the War.......with Ukraine and 'separatists' becoming an after thought.

Spend a few days with the Red Cross dealing with the civilians injured/dying in eastern Ukraine and wonder will it end...or just escalate!! Sad, so sad.... :-[

I just recently saw a program about the war between Russia and Afghanistan, and how US was covertly involved( yet denying it) buying 'Russian made' weapons from Egypt to give to Mujahideen to fight the Russian army.

The use of the word "separatists " justs disgusts me-it shows your ignorance-they are Russians fcs--how hard is it to work that out? Russians who have invaded another country  and are responsible for the murder of citizens of numerous other nations as well as Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 07:32:33 PM
Funny how many of you grasp any article that supports your POV, as if it is some sacred 100% fact telling story.
I wonder how many of you would have same position if Ukraine didn't offer their women as a possible partner or as many of you call a 'hot smoking novas'.


Raises hand.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 07:35:31 PM
Here is an article on life in the DNR.  There are a lot of articles like this.  Are they self selected?   Perhaps.  Things aren't rosy in Kyiv, either.  But at least in the latter, people aren't afraid authorities will lock them up and beat them for no reason.


http://en.censor.net.ua/resonance/313049/we_were_tortured_next_to_the_osce_cars_but_they_never_noticed_us_donetsk_resident_svitlana_matushko
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 22, 2014, 07:56:37 PM
Link broken?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 22, 2014, 08:03:50 PM
Iff the USA begin providing weapon the it will mean the US is OPENLY involved in this conflict.
It is like Russia will provide Iraq with weapon.
Ukraine in even not NATO member.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 22, 2014, 08:16:56 PM
Iff the USA begin providing weapon the it will mean the US is OPENLY involved in this conflict.


Afraid the 'Cargo 200' convoys back to Russia will get busier?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 22, 2014, 08:32:21 PM
Iff the USA begin providing weapon the it will mean the US is OPENLY involved in this conflict.
It is like Russia will provide Iraq with weapon.
Ukraine in even not NATO member.

Yes, it should have happened many months ago!      ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 22, 2014, 09:04:08 PM
Washington (AFP) - The US military has delivered three radars to Ukraine designed to detect incoming mortar fire, the Pentagon said Friday, amid appeals from Kiev for Washington to send weapons to help fight pro-Russian rebels.

The counter-mortar radar systems were flown to Ukraine in a C-17 cargo plane that accompanied US Vice President Joe Biden, who paid a visit to Kiev on the first anniversary of protests that unleashed a year of upheaval.

A total of 20 counter-mortar radar systems were due to be delivered over the next several weeks, and Ukrainian troops would undergo training on the radars starting in mid-December, Pentagon spokesman Colonel Steven Warren said.

The radars detect incoming mortar rounds and then calculate the origin of the mortar fire. The systems can be hooked up to mortar or artillery batteries which then return fire.

"It will be up to the Ukrainians how, when and where they deploy these systems," Warren said.

President Barack Obama has so far ruled out providing weapons and ammunition to Ukraine, and instead approved the delivery of "non-lethal" assistance such as radars, night vision goggles, radios, rations, body armor and other items.

But at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing earlier this week, Tony Blinken, who is nominated for a senior diplomatic post, said the United States should consider providing Ukraine with "defensive" weapons.

"I think it is something that we should be looking at," Blinken said.

Ukrainian leaders and some US lawmakers have repeatedly urged Obama to send arms to the Kiev government but the Pentagon said there had been no change in the current approach.

"To my knowledge, there is no new policy decision to announce," Warren told reporters.

Russia, which denies Western accusations it is supplying and advising rebels in eastern Ukraine, has warned the Americans against arming Ukrainian government troops.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-delivers-anti-mortar-radars-ukraine-pentagon-222447307.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 09:17:16 PM
Iff the USA begin providing weapon the it will mean the US is OPENLY involved in this conflict.
It is like Russia will provide Iraq with weapon.
Ukraine in even not NATO member.

Is this different than Russia invading UA as well as supplying the few domestic terrorists? Once again the US is trying to help the little guy against the big bad bear of the tiaga that tries to eat them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 09:20:31 PM
Link broken?


It's working for me.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 09:22:12 PM
Iff the USA begin providing weapon the it will mean the US is OPENLY involved in this conflict.
It is like Russia will provide Iraq with weapon.
Ukraine in even not NATO member.


Why should Ukraine be precluded from defending itself?   Sometimes, right is right.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 22, 2014, 09:38:18 PM
Guys, why are so sure that  USA  can integer in the conflict it has nothing to do with?
Same with Iran and Iraq (again)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 22, 2014, 09:43:45 PM

Why should Ukraine be precluded from defending itself?   Sometimes, right is right.
So you too are sure that the USA can bomb Iran and Iraq and provide weapon for Ukraine ?
What " right is right"?
It means nothing
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 09:50:10 PM
The U.S. is not bombing Iran.


Sometimes, one has to take a stand.  The Donbas was overtaken by mercenaries and criminals, not locals who wanted separation.  There were few ways, short of military action, to deal with them.  When they were about to be defeated, Russia sent arms and troops.  Providing Ukrainians with equipment to defend themselves in such a situation is justifiable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 09:50:58 PM
If Russia would have left UA to seek it's own way and not have invaded then the US would be selling or giving arms. Understand? :cluebat:

 Russia invaded and has killed Ukrainians IN Ukraine.

 Ukraine needs help to kill the bear of the tiaga that's invading it's home. Almost all the countries of the world agree on this.

 The US and other are going to help with this as well as crippling the economy of Russia until the bear goes back to the tiaga. Understand?  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 09:54:31 PM
Boe, did you see the news about Russian FSU Col. Girkin admitting to starting the war?

 I saw it at Moscow Times IIRC.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 22, 2014, 10:00:45 PM
Boe, did you see the news about Russian FSU Col. Girkin admitting to starting the war?

 I saw it at Moscow Times IIRC.

How do you decide when someone is lying and telling the truth??? When it suits your agenda or POV?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 22, 2014, 10:04:50 PM
Interesting article I read.......the 2 articles here sum up things well I thought.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mauldin-on-russia-2014-11
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 22, 2014, 10:05:12 PM
Funny how many of you grasp any article that supports your POV, as if it is some sacred 100% fact telling story.
I wonder how many of you would have same position if Ukraine didn't offer their women as a possible partner or as many of you call a 'hot smoking novas'.  :-[

If it weren't for Ukraine containing the women, I suspect these guys would give exactly zero sh!ts!


That said, I think the reason posters 'grasp' at some of these articles is because in the present things are not going the way they think they should, so wishing and hoping that evil Russia 'pays' someday in the future gives people something to say.  It probably won't go down the way they hope, and perhaps believe, but for the moment it gives people joy, so I guess that is good. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 22, 2014, 10:05:28 PM
Guys, why are so sure that  USA  can integer in the conflict it has nothing to do with?
Same with Iran and Iraq (again)

False.  Google the Budapest Memorandum and read it (doubt if you could fully comprehend it, but try).  The USA, the UK and France all have a legal right to come to the aid of Ukraine.  Ever hear of the United Nations?  Try clicking on the link (the green globe to the left) and read the overwhelming condemnation of the annexation of Crimea (again; you will simpley deny reality).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 22, 2014, 10:05:49 PM
The U.S. is not bombing Iran.


Sometimes, one has to take a stand.  The Donbas was overtaken by mercenaries and criminals, not locals who wanted separation.  There were few ways, short of military action, to deal with them.  When they were about to be defeated, Russia sent arms and troops.  Providing Ukrainians with equipment to defend themselves in such a situation is justifiable.
Then no more questions
( the USA is bombing Iraq )
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 10:11:51 PM
Boe, did you see the news about Russian FSU Col. Girkin admitting to starting the war?

 I saw it at Moscow Times IIRC.


I read it, but I reject it as truth.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 10:12:48 PM
How do you decide when someone is lying and telling the truth??? When it suits your agenda or POV?

If someone confesses that they started a war during an interview I'd suspect that it was truth.

 That's his agenda not mine.  My POV wasn't asked for during that news piece. Was your's? :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 10:14:09 PM
Then no more questions
( the USA is bombing Iraq )


I was always against the Iraq war, so you are barking up the wrong tree with that particular analogy.


In any event, it is irrelevant.  It is used by Putin to justify his illegal actions in Ukraine, where, unlike in Iraq, thousands were not being tortured to death in prisons, or gassed to death because they happened to belong to the wrong tribe.  The two situations are not analogous.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 22, 2014, 10:14:49 PM


I just recently saw a program about the war between Russia and Afghanistan, and how US was covertly involved( yet denying it) buying 'Russian made' weapons from Egypt to give to Mujahideen to fight the Russian army.
I would suspect that the US is once again secretly doing a little more currently to counter the separatists than they are admitting to publicly. They(we) probably did quite a bit more than has been publicly admitted to , to foment this thing as well.   Whatever we did in Afghanistan sure doesn't seem to have worked out well for most Americans or the Afghans...so who has benefited?


Fathertime
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 10:18:13 PM
War benefits no one.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 10:20:04 PM
Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  The comparison is absurd.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 22, 2014, 10:20:28 PM
If someone confesses that they started a war during an interview I'd suspect that it was truth.

 That's his agenda not mine.  My POV wasn't asked for during that news piece. Was your's? :rolleyes:

Your POV is all over here!! My statement was in general. Fact is, I know exactly what you have written before I even read it. I understand why your emotional on the war in Ukraine....relax
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 22, 2014, 10:22:33 PM
Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  The comparison is absurd.

If that was in regard to my post........my comparison was in secretly arming a people.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 22, 2014, 10:24:02 PM
Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  The comparison is absurd.
They why are YOU making that comparison?  I didn't. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 22, 2014, 10:27:32 PM
Interesting article I read.......the 2 articles here sum up things well I thought.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mauldin-on-russia-2014-11 (http://www.businessinsider.com/mauldin-on-russia-2014-11)
I think the opinions expressed in that link were well-reasoned.  Thanks for sharing them.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 10:36:37 PM
They why are YOU making that comparison?  I didn't. 


Fathertime!


I have never made that comparison.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 10:37:16 PM
If that was in regard to my post........my comparison was in secretly arming a people.

If the US provides arms to Ukraine, I doubt it will be secretly.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 10:45:43 PM
Right and since there are currently 2 bills before Congress it's public knowledge.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 01:38:05 AM
If that was in regard to my post........my comparison was in secretly arming a people.

While it's off topic, I will bite.  The USA armed Afghani's, who were fighting an invading army who illegally invaded Afghanistan.  Our efforts paid off -- the Soviet Union left Afganistan -- a country they had illegally invaded.  A nice side benefit was that their economy collapsed and their whole empire fell apart.

See any parallels to what is about to happen to Russia again, Einstein?

 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 01:43:40 AM
War benefits no one.

I beg to differ.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0399295/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 02:07:06 AM
Ok besides Nicholas Cage that is! :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 02:25:40 AM
I suppose that there is one more though. :rolleyes: And Huilostan
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 06:54:41 AM
Not true
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bt8De84C_Rk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bt8De84C_Rk)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 06:55:35 AM
Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  The comparison is absurd.
The comparison is very valid
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on November 23, 2014, 08:09:17 AM


I just recently saw a program about the war between Russia and Afghanistan, and how US was covertly involved( yet denying it) buying 'Russian made' weapons from Egypt to give to Mujahideen to fight the Russian army.

There wasn't anything covert about it. The US wasn't buying Russian made weapons. They were openly supplying the Afghans with small arms. It wasn't until the U.S. voted to and  supplied them with surface to air missiles that the war turned and help the Afghans defeat the Russians
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 09:23:00 AM
The comparison is very valid


Other than the USSR invaded Afghanistan, and Russia invaded Ukraine, in what way is the comparison valid?



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on November 23, 2014, 09:38:21 AM
The U.S. is not bombing Iran.

Sometimes, one has to take a stand.  The Donbas was overtaken by mercenaries and criminals, not locals who wanted separation.  There were few ways, short of military action, to deal with them.  When they were about to be defeated, Russia sent arms and troops.  Providing Ukrainians with equipment to defend themselves in such a situation is justifiable.
I agree that sending weapons in Ukraine is justifiable. Not much help really (without experts and servicemen) but justifiable.
However any thinking politician will see consequences.
1. Russia will send rebels military equipment of the same quality and in the same quantities. Besides Russia has option to send "consultants" to serve the weapons, I'm not sure US will be able to follow so far.
2. War will continue with higher intensity, and more Ukrainians will die at both sides. Boethius is mistaken saying about mercenaries and criminals, probably she takes info mainly from .uа resources. Locals are the core of militia there. Though now it's hard to call them Ukrainians.
3. Russia has canceled S-300 deal with Iran because of US opposition. Then Russia will feel herself free from any liabilities.

Mother Russia is watching :
(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/15519/27652091.323/0_947b2_1b7061d4_XL.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 09:57:15 AM
Quote
1. Russia will send rebels military equipment of the same quality and in the same quantities. Besides Russia has option to send "consultants" to serve the weapons, I'm not sure US will be able to follow so far.


Russia has done, and is doing this currently.  So, no change.
Quote
2. War will continue with higher intensity, and more Ukrainians will die at both sides. Boethius is mistaken saying about mercenaries and criminals, probably she takes info mainly from .uа resources. Locals are the core of militia there. Though now it's hard to call them Ukrainians.


There are still mercenary units (such as self proclaimed "Cossacks" and Chechens operating in Donbas.  Many of those left are indeed criminals. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on November 23, 2014, 10:08:11 AM
Russia has done, and is doing this currently.  So, no change.

Yes, Russia provide weapons but of the same level as Ukrainian army uses. Change will be in mortality of soldiers, rebels and civilians.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 23, 2014, 10:42:03 AM
Interesting article I read.......the 2 articles here sum up things well I thought.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mauldin-on-russia-2014-11

The article Putin’s World: Why Russia’s Showdown with the West Will Worsen by Vitaliy Katsenelson is an excellent piece of journalism. 

Vitaly, born in Murmansk and today a highly accomplished financial analyst, went to an extreme to explain how Russian propaganda works.  He watched nothing but RT news for seven days, which is comparable to the Super Size Me film narrator who ate nothing but McDonalds for 30 days.  Vitaly emerged with some excellent insight into Russian propaganda. 

I really like the following conclusion, which perhaps explains the attitude of Russians in general, including at least woman we see at RWD:

"Russian TV is so potent that you would not even want to watch anything else, because you would be convinced that you were in possession of indisputable facts."    :D :( :D :( :D :(
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 23, 2014, 11:05:43 AM
While it's off topic, I will bite.  The USA armed Afghani's, who were fighting an invading army who illegally invaded Afghanistan.  Our efforts paid off -- the Soviet Union left Afganistan -- a country they had illegally invaded.  A nice side benefit was that their economy collapsed and their whole empire fell apart.

See any parallels to what is about to happen to Russia again, Einstein?

 :ROFL:

Huge difference between Ukraine, if we arm them, and Afghanistan in the 1980s.  We did not arm the Mujahideen to help Afghanistan obtain its freedom.  We armed them so 1) they would kill Soviets and 2) the Soviets would spend more money than they could afford, thus helping to collapse the CCCP.  Remember, we were in a 40-year, expensive, global cold war with the Soviet Union.   

The Congressman behind the arming of Afghanistan:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Wilson_(Texas_politician)

The book (great read):  http://www.amazon.com/Charlie-Wilsons-War-Extraordinary-Congress/dp/B001GVJBPC

The film:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Wilson's_War     

BTW, our efforts were followed by as much blowback as the Soviets sufferred, including OBL and the Taliban. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 11:12:20 AM
I know the history of our involvment in Afghanistan very well.  You might be surprised but it was Carter who started this involvement, at the advice of Brzizinski. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski


PS -- you seem to miss the parallel, of what is going to happen to Russia (the USSR and Russia today are very similar and I see them as the same, especially with Putin in charge); again.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 23, 2014, 12:16:49 PM
While it's off topic, I will bite.  The USA armed Afghani's, who were fighting an invading army who illegally invaded Afghanistan.  Our efforts paid off -- the Soviet Union left Afganistan -- a country they had illegally invaded.  A nice side benefit was that their economy collapsed and their whole empire fell apart.

See any parallels to what is about to happen to Russia again, Einstein?

 :ROFL:

Let's try this one more time.......my comparison is SECRECTLY arming a people. I was not comparing situation between Ukraine to Afghanistan...... Who knows what is or will be done secretly.

Since I am Einstein......AC, you forgot to spell Afghanistan correctly both times....but I am sure you knew that already!! :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 23, 2014, 12:27:05 PM
The article Putin’s World: Why Russia’s Showdown with the West Will Worsen by Vitaliy Katsenelson is an excellent piece of journalism. 

Vitaly, born in Murmansk and today a highly accomplished financial analyst, went to an extreme to explain how Russian propaganda works.  He watched nothing but RT news for seven days, which is comparable to the Super Size Me film narrator who ate nothing but McDonalds for 30 days.  Vitaly emerged with some excellent insight into Russian propaganda. 

I really like the following conclusion, which perhaps explains the attitude of Russians in general, including at least woman we see at RWD:

"Russian TV is so potent that you would not even want to watch anything else, because you would be convinced that you were in possession of indisputable facts."    :D :( :D :( :D :(

Thanks for reading article Gator. I hope many here will find time to be enlightened with the analysis whether you agree or disagree. That painting was quite revealing!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 12:33:53 PM
Let's try this one more time.......my comparison is SECRECTLY arming a people. I was not comparing situation between Ukraine to Afghanistan...... Who knows what is or will be done secretly.

Since I am Einstein......AC, you forgot to spell Afghanistan correctly both times....but I am sure you knew that already!! :)

I don't think that arming the Muhadeen was done in secret in fact Reagan had some of them to the White House,
hardly a secret. 

You've yet to answer my opinion that Russia will yet again become a collapsed economy, because of their desire to invade yet another country for the purpose of stealing their lands.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 12:51:46 PM

Other than the USSR invaded Afghanistan, and Russia invaded Ukraine, in what way is the comparison valid?
No
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 23, 2014, 01:03:22 PM
That painting was quite revealing!!

Indeed!  Painted in 1995,  two years after his father took the family to America.   It showed much hope for a new Russia and a break from its long past. 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 23, 2014, 01:25:54 PM
I don't think that arming the Muhadeen was done in secret in fact Reagan had some of them to the White House,
hardly a secret. 

You've yet to answer my opinion that Russia will yet again become a collapsed economy, because of their desire to invade yet another country for the purpose of stealing their lands.

Okay....Russians economy can collapse..... but more to do with markets conditions, ie: oil pricing.

Can you tell me why Charlie Wilson was continually lobbying congress and donars for money to buy Russian weapons from Egypt? Would have been easier to just send weapons directly to arm mujahideen( again, sp?)
I understand eventually US sent surface to air missiles.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 01:38:39 PM
Okay....Russians economy can collapse..... but more to do with markets conditions, ie: oil pricing.

Can you tell me why Charlie Wilson was continually lobbying congress and donars for money to buy Russian weapons from Egypt? Would have been easier to just send weapons directly to arm mujahideen( again, sp?)
I understand eventually US sent surface to air missiles.

It's no secret that the USA and the Soviet Union were in a cold war at that time.  It's no secret that most of the people of Afghanistan felt that the Soviet Union (let by Russia from the Kremlin) had invaded their country and that the Afghanistan people preferred self-determination. 

It's also no secret that V. Putin feels the collapse of the Soviet Union was a tragedy, and he's doing his best to again subjugate former members of the FSU back under control by Russian's from the Kremlin.

And it's no secret that the economic sanctions are hurting Putin's economy; as well as the double-whammy of low oil prices again. 

It's also no secret that Reagan leaned on the Saudi's back then in order to lower oil prices (to hurt the FSU) and it's possible that Obama has leaned on the Saudi's again to achieve the same results.

Putin has been deliberately provoking the West and his actions are a threat to the sanctity of sovereign borders in Europe.  Europe has a history of thousands of years of bloodshed because of such.  Europe needs a reason to stand up against Putin's aggression and it's likely that Putin will give it to them.


BTW your punctuation is certainly not perfect and the style of it makes me think that you're actually Russian.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 01:43:26 PM
Okay....Russians economy can collapse..... but more to do with markets conditions, ie: oil pricing.

Can you tell me why Charlie Wilson was continually lobbying congress and donars for money to buy Russian weapons from Egypt? Would have been easier to just send weapons directly to arm mujahideen( again, sp?)
I understand eventually US sent surface to air missiles.

The first part I bolded was written awkwardly, like a Russian would write it.
Since you're so concerned about spelling, it's interesting that you misspelled donor.
You are clearly NOT American.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 23, 2014, 01:52:30 PM
The first part I bolded was written awkwardly, like a Russian would write it.
Since you're so concerned about spelling, it's interesting that you misspelled donor.
You are clearly NOT American.

Well the guys I met when I was in Sharm El Sheikh didn't think I was American either!!! Are YOU an Arab??? :o

BTW, thanks for correcting me, I will keep a better eye on my penmanship!!

I did answer your question but you didn't answer mine....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 02:00:15 PM
Well the guys I met when I was in Sharm El Sheikh didn't think I was American either!!! Are YOU an Arab??? :o

BTW, thanks for correcting me, I will keep a better eye on my penmanship!!

I did answer your question but you didn't answer mine....


My answer is that it's  :offtopic:.


It's an old argument though.  A short answer would be that the USA does not arm people around the World so that we can then attempt to annex and steal their lands.  We do it so that they can self-determine their future.

A polar opposite to what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now. 

Thanks for clearing up that you are an Arab from Egypt (based on your comment that is my guess, although I suppose you could also be Jewish).  It's always interesting to get the perspective from citizens from around the World about US foreign policy.

I don't set it and neither do any of the Americans here.  But again it's purpose is the polar opposite from what Russia's purpose is.  This is not to say that America has been perfect, because it's not.  There is always blowback as Gator mentioned, if we do not remain vigilant.  Evil and violence flourish around the World much easier than peace and goodness.  It takes a very strong President to have consistent and strong actions; as Obama is finding out words alone mean very little.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 23, 2014, 02:16:52 PM

My answer is that it's  :offtopic:.


It's an old argument though.  A short answer would be that the USA does not arm people around the World so that we can then attempt to annex and steal their lands.  We do it so that they can self-determine their future.

A polar opposite to what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now. 

Thanks for clearing up that you are an Arab from Egypt (based on your comment that is my guess, although I suppose you could also be Jewish).  It's always interesting to get the perspective from citizens from around the World about US foreign policy.

I don't set it and neither do any of the Americans here.  But again it's purpose is the polar opposite from what Russia's purpose is.  This is not to say that America has been perfect, because it's not.  There is always blowback as Gator mentioned, if we do not remain vigilant.  Evil and violence flourish around the World much easier than peace and goodness.  It takes a very strong President to have consistent and strong actions; as Obama is finding out words alone mean very little.

Interesting my question was   :offtopic:  for you but you did interject some  :offtopic: stuff. Oh well....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 02:24:40 PM
Interesting my question was   :offtopic:  for you but you did interject some  :offtopic: stuff. Oh well....

That's the nature of a forum.  This forum is dedicated to the FSU so I believe that should be the main focus.  It's my opinion that any mention of previous American foreign policy is a diversion away from what Putin is doing to Ukraine.  However I hope that I answered your question.  It very well may be that initially US policy towards Afghanistan back then when the USSR first invaded was secretive, but eventually it became well known.

But a comparison of polar opposite purposes -- an apple to orange comparison -- so not valid.

If I did not answer your questions let me know.  I will do my best to provide a better more thorough one.  Yet this thread should be about what is going on in Ukraine right now; and again I don't set US foreign policy.  You may get a much better answer by reading a biography of Brzezinski about his time in the service of US Presidential administrations during that era.

This may be helpful:

excerpt
Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [integrisme], having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?


http://www.counterpunch.org/1998/01/15/how-jimmy-carter-and-i-started-the-mujahideen/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 03:49:39 PM

Wings Phoenix: About that ‘high-precision weapon’ at Donetsk airport
Posted on November 23, 2014 by chervonaruta VOICES OF UKRAINE

By Wings Phoenix, (Iurii Biriukov), army volunteer and Assistant Minister to the Minister of Defense
11.22.2014
Translated by Wings Phoenix Eng and edited by Voices of Ukraine, used with permission

The strangest photo report about a cargo delivery to Donetsk airport. I’ve been carefully delaying it, for the reason that the chief specialist in this specific issue has been in the airport all this time. But today he successfully returned to base, and hence…. Hence I can write a little bit about this.

Those following the Donetsk airport may remember, that at the beginning of last week, there was a series of reports about direct hits by our artillery, about the destruction of the militants’ bomb shelter, and the wounding of the idiot in a hat. The NSDC [National Security & Defense Council] has been reporting on the usage of a new high-precision weapon. Vladislav Seleznev was saying clever stuff….. But totally did not know what was going on.

Even now I cannot tell you the details. But a part of this ‘high-precision weapon’ we delivered to the airport on November 13th, and it has been working there since. Dmitry Marchenko has done a good job as always, and then dropped off more equipment. All this process has been watched by Diana Petrenya, who was quite intrigued by it. In short, all our usual crowd was involved.

Poor stupid separatists. … Well, why did you come here? To us? To our native land? Ay-ay-ay… How inconvenient is this – crawling into a bomb shelter that is about to be blasted by a direct hit. Maybe it is time for you to get out of here, bastards?

This is just a hint, though. Because next week we are coming there again, and bringing another piece of gear. Even more high-precision.

P.S.: Yuriy Kasyanov’s drones are playing a big role in the success of the usage of these ‘high-precision weapons,’ for which he gets a big thank you!



http://maidantranslations.com/2014/11/23/wings-phoenix-about-that-high-precision-weapon-at-donetsk-airport/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 04:14:48 PM
Dear, I am not talking of myself- I am trying to explain why Putin is doing what he he doing. You don't feel him because of mentality
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 04:16:20 PM
No and I don't feel for him with my hands either..

 However my finger on a trigger would feel just fine. I've never shot a huilo before. :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 04:22:50 PM
No and I don't feel for him with my hands either..

 However my finger on a trigger would feel just fine. I've never shot a huilo before. :clapping:
Typical American-finger on a trigger.
So you're threatening to kill Russian president?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 04:24:46 PM
Don't assume to know more than I stated.

 You realize that you just said that Putin is a huilo don't you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 04:31:42 PM
Don't assume to know more than I stated.

 You realize that you just said that Putin is a huilo don't you.
I can teach you reading comprehension - the meaningful part of your post was about wanting to kill
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 04:35:35 PM
No where did I say kill or Putin..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 04:45:31 PM
Former chief economic adviser of Russian President Vladimir Putin and CATO Institute member, Andrey Illarionov served as the president’s personal representative in the G-8, and is one of Russia’s most forceful and articulate advocates of an open society and democratic capitalism.

"Russian citizens have been zombied. It is a fact that many Russians citizens have been brainwashed. It is a fact of life. And it is quite striking to observe for Russian citizens how propaganda can the change the perceptions of millions of people just in front our very own eyes, in a very short period of time. Lets be clear- this (conflict) is war, in the very clear meaning of this word. All these psychological warfares are not just against Russians citizens, but against peoples all over the world. This is Mr Putins war against Ukraine as the majority of the Russian people do not support this war, This war has been in preparation for at least 11 years, I never thought these crazy decisions I heard would ever become a real war. ....and at the very end the plan is to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine in the region southeast of Kyiv. This war has been very long in preparation."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 23, 2014, 04:54:04 PM
No need to waste a perfectly good bullet to shoot huilo!
Much more satisfying would be if the rumours about huilo having incurable cancer is true...
Let's hope his guts starts rotting from the inside out.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 04:58:32 PM
Just a reminder- Illarionov lives in Washington
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 05:07:30 PM
 Illarionov is a smart man to get away from the corrosive effects of the Moscow led filth and Pravda propaganda.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 05:10:15 PM
Just a reminder- Illarionov lives in Washington


He is still holds a Russian passport.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 23, 2014, 05:36:19 PM
I know the history of our involvment in Afghanistan very well.  You might be surprised but it was Carter who started this involvement, at the advice of Brzizinski. 


Regarding Carter, he did not start the US covert operations.  He accelerated in July 1979 something that was started in 1973 by the CIA after a Soviet backed group gained partial power.   In the following earlier RWD post, I summarized this period, the period of growing intervention by the Soviets.   Unlike the Soviet intervention in Ukraine, the Soviets were "invited" by the Marxist Afghani government in 1978.

 

-  In a popular rebellion, President I had overthrown the monarchy in 1973.  He was  slowly turning away from communism, and  was murdered (along with his family) in 1978.   

-  A Marxist assumed the presidency (President II) and he quickly developed close relations with the Soviets and started a program of  Soviet-style reforms.  This created rebellion and President II asked for Soviet military support, yet little came. 
President II was soon overthrown and killed in 1979.   

-  The new president (President III) faced an even larger rebellion by his countrymen and was killed by the Soviets in 1979, essentially coinciding with full deployment of Soviet military forces in Afghanistan in December 1979. 

Also, between the murder of President I and President II, the US Ambassador to Afghanistan was murdered.



BTW, I was in Afghanistan in 1977 and have followed its tumultuous history, although I need a scorecard and program.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 23, 2014, 05:48:10 PM
The CIA operation to arm and finance the Mujahideen was both covert and huge.  Wiki states, the program "...was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken; funding began with $20–$30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987. 

We could do the same today in Ukraine. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 05:53:07 PM

He is still holds a Russian passport.
so? Russia allows to keep Russian citizenship
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 05:54:37 PM
So even if he is in Washington, he travels to Russia frequently, on a Russian passport.  He is no less Russian than are you.  In fact, he left Russia later than you did.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 06:15:18 PM
The CIA operation to arm and finance the Mujahideen was both covert and huge.  Wiki states, the program "...was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken; funding began with $20–$30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987. 

We could do the same today in Ukraine.

Yes we could, although with a weakling like Obama in office I expect Britain and Canada are going to act first.  One thing we've done which seems to already be a success though is the radars given to Ukraine. 

I suspect that is what they used here:

http://maidantranslations.com/2014/11/23/wings-phoenix-about-that-high-precision-weapon-at-donetsk-airport/

(link already posted by Mike upthread)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 23, 2014, 06:18:06 PM
The CIA operation to arm and finance the Mujahideen was both covert and huge.  Wiki states, the program "...was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken; funding began with $20–$30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987. 

We could do the same today in Ukraine.
Maybe you need another Charlie Wilson ;):

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kxpKLpGCL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 06:54:23 PM
So even if he is in Washington, he travels to Russia frequently, on a Russian passport.  He is no less Russian than are you.  In fact, he left Russia later than you did.
Doesn't matter
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 07:00:16 PM
Then why did you raise it initially?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 07:18:31 PM
Because she thought she could put a spin on it until it failed..  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 08:10:48 PM
Then why did you raise it initially?
I was not me  who posted the link on Illariononv. I googled him
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 08:11:59 PM
Because she thought she could put a spin on it until it failed..  :crackwhip:
somebody posted the link ( again)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 23, 2014, 08:30:23 PM
Maybe you need another Charlie Wilson ;):

Unlikely in my opinion.  He was an extraordinary man to have pulled this off.  A remarkable CIA case officer also was instrumental.  Even more important, the Republicans and Democrats worked better together then and Charlie made it happen. 

Charlie Wilson led a wild private life, a known ladies' man.  His nickname was "Good Time Charlie."  His overwhelmingly religious district re-elected him 12 times.  Charlie explained this inconsistency, saying his voters did not want a "constipated monk."

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 23, 2014, 08:33:23 PM
Maybe you need another Charlie Wilson ;):

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kxpKLpGCL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

Agree 100%
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 08:53:07 PM
:crackwhip: :crackwhip: :crackwhip: :crackwhip: :crackwhip:
(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/webkit-fake-url://60892E11-CB38-4D75-A9D0-BECF4AD191C8/imagejpeg)(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/webkit-fake-url://615858A5-7613-4BDC-801F-9B5A98D42942/imagejpeg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 08:56:08 PM

Doll, I was referring to this -

Just a reminder- Illarionov lives in Washington


Yes, he lives in Washington, but he was a government advisor for a lengthy period, and still holds Russian citizenship.  As I understand, he travels to Russia frequently as part of his work.  So, I don't think the fact he lives in Washington means he doesn't understand Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 08:58:07 PM
Doll, I was referring to this -


Yes, he lives in Washington, but he was a government advisor for a lengthy period, and still holds Russian citizenship.  As I understand, he travels to Russia frequently as part of his work.  So, I don't think the fact he lives in Washington means he doesn't understand Russia.
he says what Washington wants him to say
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 09:03:39 PM
Ummm Yah sure..  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 09:11:33 PM
he says what Washington wants him to say


Is that Democrat Washington, Republican Washington, or the libertarian position (the Cato Institute professes to be libertarian)?


If the latter, it is not saying what Washington wants.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 09:13:24 PM

Is that Democrat Washington, Republican Washington, or the libertarian position (the Cato Institute professes to be libertarian)?


If the latter, it is not saying what Washington wants.
doesn't matter
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 09:38:13 PM
What doesn't matter?  That it is libertarian?


If you read academic papers, you will note that most academics do not follow Washington's perspectives. Most American think tanks are vying for influence among policy makers, not vice versa.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 23, 2014, 10:34:19 PM
he says what Washington wants him to say
Russians don't understand Freedom of Speech in the West.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 10:42:12 PM
doesn't matter

What she means is that anyone who disagrees with Putin is now the enemy.  End of story.  Right Doll?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 23, 2014, 10:47:18 PM
AC, something about your avatar photo is 'distracting'.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 10:55:43 PM
AC, something about your avatar photo is 'distracting'.

You like to be distracted?    ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 23, 2014, 11:24:29 PM
An update on the affect of sanctions makes interesting reading.
AC--just read between the lines and you will get the jist of the story !!  ( to point out what should be obvious--many do not follow links or translate material in links).This type of story  illustrates that sanctions are impacting on the population at large-- and in time the negative impact will develop a groundswell of opinion against Putins policies and make Russians see the distaste for Russian behaviour.
It is one part of the jigsaw that can rid the world of Putin and his cronies.

In brewing "hungry" revolt: prices are rising, and the Kremlin wants to feed people krokodylyatynoyu
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/svit/u-rosiyi-nazrivaye-golodniy-bunt-cini-rostut-a-kreml-hoche-nagoduvati-lyudey-krokodilyatinoyu-393309.html

Of "choking" through sanctions, cheap oil, the fall of the ruble and increase spending on the war. TSN.ua

In looming huge social rebellion against Kremlin Sanctions cheap oil, the ruble, falling and rising cost of the war drag Russia into the bottom. The ruble has lost a third of its value. Oil from the beginning of the year fell to $ 26. Falling for every dollar - a minus two billion in the Russian budget. Therefore Kremlin knows not dorahuyetsya 52 billion this year. This is stated in the plot TSN.Tyzhden . In addition, elopement capital by the end of the year will be 128 billion dollars. And despite the fact that the loss of even 90 billion economists called irreversible catastrophe.
See also: Twitter banter with reacted to panic: Russia rose from his knees and ran for buckwheat So the budget of all social programs, pensions and wages already cut.
 I have to admit that the Russian economy - Putin can not afford. Most Russians see it every day - at price tags in stores. Sanctions cheap oil and the fall of the ruble drag Russia into the bottom   Another two months because of international sanctions have become almost a national pride of Russians - they were happy, scared poplars and Iskander and strongly praised the wise head of the Kremlin. Russian press talked about race and trained notable producers, which can easily replace all prohibited importation of products. And the benefits of such bans called apparent. Foie game found in Vladimir, in Valaam - monks, who promised to cook Orthodox mozzarella and rykottu and Mordovia cows put Celentano, give inspiration to those for milk parmesan.
All this exotic a la Russe on the shelves of supermarkets in Moscow we found. Read more: On Russian TV channels continue to tell the horrors of the Ukrainian army At the Muscovite Alexander going to monitor the Moscow supermarket. "Vegetables rose 20 percent," - said the man. I have changed residence - British apples imported from Belarus. Salmon were suddenly catch somewhere near Brest. "Previously it cost 120-130 rubles per pack, and now - 300 rubles, or twice the price" - says Alexander. Perekleyuvaty stickers and did not re-export or Camembert cheese - even two months ago, he was now remains milked, new is brought. On the shelves of Russian and very similar to it, at least visually, cheese with foreign names. Suddenly Russian buckwheat and salt were deficient and also beat price records. Some stores give the country a maximum of five packs of buckwheat in hand. They say - crop failure. "In general, of course, the cost of food basket has increased, according to our family estimates, 50 percent" - said Moscow resident Alexander. The Russians started to count every penny. Complain that zdorozhchalo all, especially meat and "milk". And not just imported. Russian products are unpatriotic and lifted her up prices.
 Putin's electorate, which in Crimea capture the Kremlin has promised to forgive everything suddenly began to complain in unison control services and newspapers - the salary is not live. Newspapers in response abound tips on how to survive the crisis and come out of it victorious, how to spend the winter in warm areas without money and where to spend the last.

Read also: Norway froze political cooperation with Russia because of its aggression in Ukraine Dmitry Potapenko - known retailer in Russia - the owner of the supermarket chain. Recently live main propaganda channel decided vyvalyty whole truth and just dipped Russian urapatriotiv into a deep depression. Actually, with the presenter, who did not want pidihruvaty, stating that the current troubles blame themselves. Shelves have not emptied for imports from Ukraine and Europe replaced products from third countries. But the main revelation known retailer is different: the so-called Russian national product actually exists. Russian chicken eggs begins with German as local beef and 90% of livestock and crop production in Russia. His contribution to the so-called import substitution made smugglers - they present ideal conditions. Meat being taken to Russia under the guise of gum and jelly. Greek peaches delivered from Macedonia, popular Polish apples - Serbian and Norwegian fish and seafood - from the Faroe Islands and Greenland. In December, according to experts, everything goes up vidstokiv 20.
But Putin an interesting economy. "In 2015 they increased by 80 percent funding of defense. The money should be taken from somewhere, so have decided to reform health care, reducing hospital doctors. Why was this done? It was necessary to reduce the army and the police," - said economist Vladimir Perevyerzyev. Doctors are preparing for the end of November riot, and business people packing their bags. According to their account Kremlin wants to finance its economic bloopers introduction of new taxes - such as going to a quarterly business with real estate taxes, which they use. The list got taxis, hairdressers, cafes, garages and even pay toilets. Read also: Russia recognized the aggressive police state №1 in the world "The social explosion could happen very soon. Maybe in six months. I do not think we will have a Square, but something did happen" - predicts economist Vladimir Perevyerzyev.
Meanwhile, "Rosselkhoznadzor" that prydyravsya to Ukrainian pork and found how to fill empty shelves and allowed to import Russian crocodile meat and carcasses Indian buffalo. South Africa and Namibia Russians offer to buy meat of wild African antelope. This is not the distant future - one of the Filipino farms already shivering first batch of crocodiles. They say, strengthens the immune system. Russian housewives already advised where to find recipes and demonstrate that crocodile meat like chicken. But even frozen reptile will afford only wealthy. Prices serious bite by crocodiles. And that's just the impact of sanctions. The fall of the ruble Russians feel completely in December.

TSN reporter Margaret Sytnyk
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/svit/u-rosiyi-nazrivaye-golodniy-bunt-cini-rostut-a-kreml-hoche-nagoduvati-lyudey-krokodilyatinoyu-393309.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 11:59:00 PM
If that's factual then Russia is in much more of a hurting condition than they let on. Doll may be right about them eating dirt soon. We already know that even a staple like buckwheat is missing from the store shelves.

 The junta in power may have serious problems staying in power with their own Maidan revolution looming.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 24, 2014, 12:01:53 AM
Russians don't understand Freedom of Speech in the West.
Hahaha remember Edward Snowden
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 24, 2014, 12:18:58 AM
Hahaha remember where Stalin's own daughter is?  :clapping:

 Where was Putins daughter until Dada invaded UA and his minions shot down the airliner with 298 souls on board?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 24, 2014, 12:43:06 AM
Hahaha remember where Stalin's own daughter is?  :clapping:

 Where was Putins daughter until Dada invaded UA and his minions shot down the airliner with 298 souls on board?
how is it linked?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 24, 2014, 01:14:51 AM
They fled Russia the same as you did.
 Snowden fled the US for 'stealing state secrets'.


Russia is getting good at allowing criminals in for amnesty. Putin gave citizenship to V.Yanukovych and his band of thieves.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 24, 2014, 02:07:11 AM
he says what Washington wants him to say

Just as you say what huilo wants ordinary Russians to say... :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JohnDearGreen on November 24, 2014, 06:05:42 AM
Russia is getting good at allowing criminals in for amnesty. Putin gave citizenship to V.Yanukovych and his band of thieves.
That could be only temporary...
http://tsn.ua/politika/rosiyskiy-deputat-hoche-zdati-ukrayini-poplichnikiv-yanukovicha-yaki-osili-v-rf-393397.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 24, 2014, 11:28:03 AM
Dear, I am not talking of myself- I am trying to explain why Putin is doing what he he doing. You don't feel him because of mentality


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 24, 2014, 11:37:26 AM
A young face of a young Russian soldier sacrificed for Putin's folly:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=647110912063840&set=gm.580726295386462&type=1


Addition: cargo-200 Andriyanov Sergej Viktorovich; 27.03.1994-not earlier and not later 23.08.2014 28.08.2014; c. Sunflower Borsky district, Samara Oblast; v/h 137PDP 41450 (Ryazan) from here (in comments): http://vk.com/wall-33504019_269528 quote: Daria Prosina (03.09.18:46): Medical Certification-this is false. September 2, 2014 We buried a soldier the military part 41450 (Ryazan) Andriyanova Sergey Viktorovich. The guy was 20 years old. The certificate of death, place of death stated: "PARA a TEMPORARY DISLOCATION of MILITARY UNIT 41450"? of? of? of? of? of? of? Sergei died (this can be seen clearly on the external examination) on the documents he was supposed to be on maneuvers in Thule, and the body and some documents about the death of the Rostov region were represented. All of this is questionable, and guesses that the soldier was not in training and in combat on the territory of Ukraine. Sergei took 5 days and very upset and annoyed that being in such elite AIRBORNE TROOPS "did not bother to wash, dress appropriately as a warrior-marine and instead Berz put rubber flip flops. And the question is whether mothers sending their sons to the army of??
 Kirill Kravchenko (07.09.15:34): Daria, the cause of death is what? It stripped, searched the relatives? What kind of damage the body?
 Daria Prosina (07.09.16:32): Cyril, relatives are not examined, because it took 5 days and no longer wanted to torture him. The cause of death, the blind fragmental wound with a direct hit to the heart.
 End of quote. (Translated by Bing)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 25, 2014, 02:01:38 PM
Donetsk women give terrorists two months to leave town

 
In Donetsk on Monday, November 24, a protest took place against the lack of food and social security benefits by the so-called “female opposition battalion” demanding that the terrorists leave town within two months. Similar protests demanding that  the Russians leave have also taken place in other cities in the Donbas, Andriy Lysenko, spokesman for the National Security Council, reported at a press briefing,  November 25.

“In the temporarily occupied territories of the Donbas, resistance by the local residents is growing and becoming better organized. In particular, in Donetsk another demonstration has taken place that was organized by the so-called united women’s opposition battalion,” Lysenko said.

“Local women are outraged by the present situation where there is a lack of food and the absence of any social security from the terrorist authorities as well as the distribution of counterfeit money by the DNR authorities that no store will accept,” he added.

“The protest movement activists have given an ultimatum to the so-called prime minister of DNR demanding that (his people) get out of town within two months,” he said.

Lysenko noted that over the past several days similar protests by local residents have also taken place in Amvrosiyivka, Sverdlovsk, Chervonopartyzansk and Rovenky in the Luhansk Oblast.

“In addition, in the occupied towns of Fashchivka, Chornukhino and Krasnyi Luch, where Russian troops have positioned Grad multiple rocket launchers in the midst of residential neighborhoods in order to fire at ATO forces, local residents have come out with makeshift weapons demanding that the Russians leave their cities and remove all their weapons,” he reported


http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/11/25/donetsk-women-give-terrorists-two-months-to-leave-town/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 25, 2014, 08:25:55 PM
Former chief economic adviser of Russian President Vladimir Putin and CATO Institute member, Andrey Illarionov served as the president’s personal representative in the G-8, and is one of Russia’s most forceful and articulate advocates of an open society and democratic capitalism.

"Russian citizens have been zombied. It is a fact that many Russians citizens have been brainwashed. It is a fact of life. And it is quite striking to observe for Russian citizens how propaganda can the change the perceptions of millions of people just in front our very own eyes, in a very short period of time. Lets be clear- this (conflict) is war, in the very clear meaning of this word. All these psychological warfares are not just against Russians citizens, but against peoples all over the world. This is Mr Putins war against Ukraine as the majority of the Russian people do not support this war, This war has been in preparation for at least 11 years, I never thought these crazy decisions I heard would ever become a real war. ....and at the very end the plan is to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine in the region southeast of Kyiv. This war has been very long in preparation."


Russian insider says Putin openly planned invasion of Ukraine since 2003
2014/11/25 • News EUROMAIDAN PRESS by *** Babiak

A former Russian insider says he was there when Putin began openly planning the present invasion of Ukraine back in 2003.

At a conference in Brussels this week, Andrey Illarionov, a Russian economist and former economic advisor to Vladimir Putin informed that the invasion of Ukraine has been in official planning since at least 2003.

“Since 2003. I can say that certain questions relating to the future war with Ukraine were discussed in my presence. I didn’t think the talks would really lead to a real war,” he said.

In an anguished response to the Orange Revolution a year later which brought about an ostensibly pro-Western government, Russian officials then began discussing the potential for launching a military occupation of Crimea and it’s subsequent annexation. Illarionov also discussed leaked documents which detail the operation of Russia’s future war with Ukraine.

By 2009, he stated that plans to conjure and support separatism in Ukraine began to surface. It is now known that the terrorist organization known as the ‘Donetsk Republic’ began to reassert itself online in 2008 after then Russian-backed Viktor Yanukovych lost his position as Prime Minister. Created in 2005 also in the wake of the Orange Revolution, ‘Donetsk Republic’ members attended training camps in Russia funded by the Russian Presidential Administration, where instructors from the security services taught methods of espionage, sabotage and guerrilla tactics to attendees. Syncing with Illarionov’s statement, the group began organizing local terrorist training camps as early 2009.

Illarionov did not mince words, making clear that this is a very much a “Russian-Ukrainian war” or rather, as he described: “Putin’s war against Ukraine.” A war he steadfastly describes as being long in the works that will continue to play out in the long term.

“So, they were preparing the war for a long time. The other matter is that it is a long war that has been continuing for more than 16 months. It was officially launched on July 27, 2013, by Putin’s speech in Kyiv on the occasion of the anniversary of the baptism of Kyivan Rus,” he said.

The speech cited by Illarionov was on the topic of Ukraine’s “civilizational choice” and “orthodox Slavic values.” In it, Putin bloviates on alleged “common spiritual values” which make Russians and Ukrainians a “single people,” calling for the preservation of ‘ancestral traditions.’ He also convincingly ignores centuries of persecution, telling listeners that subjugation (“union”) under Russia “changed the lives of Ukraine’s population and its elite for the better, as everyone knows.”

At another point, Putin speaks glowingly of Stalin’s reforms and investment in Ukraine during his first ‘Five Year Plan,’ a disastrous policy which resulted in the Moscow-orchestrated genocide of up to 7 million Ukrainians.

Current conflict zones’ historical hallmarks were focused on in the speech, specifically calling the Donbas “one of Russia’s main mining and metals industry regions,” and Odesa “one of the Russian Empire’s biggest seaports.” The next day Putin would attend Russian naval celebrations in the Ukrainian city of Sevastopol in Ukraine.

All of this, of course, amounted to a cynical sales pitch Russia’s unborn Eurasian Union and reunion with Russia, and to convince Ukrainians the perils of European integration. With a smile.

Let me say again that we will respect whatever choice our Ukrainian partners, friends and brothers make. The question is only one of how we go about agreeing on working together under absolutely equal, transparent and clear conditions.

Numerous predictions

Illarionov resigned from his position within the administration in 2005, has been an outspoken critic of president Vladimir Putin since that time.

Since becoming a dissident, his words to date have been prophetic. In October 2008 he quickly exposed that the Russian invasion and occupation of Georgia in August of that year was premeditated and instigated by the Russian government, when many still debated whether Georgia fired on Russian soldiers first.

In February of this year, prior to Russia’s “green men” swarming into Crimea, he fully predicted the occupation of the peninsula and similar destabilizing actions in the south and east. In March, after this had already come to fruition, he further predicted and warned of impending Russian forces seeping into eastern Ukraine during an interview on the Ukrainian network TSN. Russian Col. Igor Girkin, “Supreme Commander” of the Donetsk Republic, openly admitted recently to Russia’s involvement in the war and told how his special forces group entered Ukraine in April to seize government buildings.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/11/25/russian-insider-says-putin-planning-invasion-of-ukraine-since-2003/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 26, 2014, 02:44:22 AM

Defense Ministry of Russia: There were no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but the families of the dead will receive 5 million rubles

Defense Ministry told about payments to families of victims at the borders of Ukraine
November 26, 2014 1:51  8092  13
As reported on Tuesday,261 November RBC, in the presidential administration passed the next1 Meeting of the Council for Human Rights, the theme of which was the protection of the rights and military assistance to the bereaved families in the service.

 
With defenders met Deputy Defense Minister Nikolai Pankov. He discussed with the Board the issue of payments to the families of those who died during the exercises near the border with Ukraine.

Pankov said that the Russian military did not take part in the fighting in the east of Ukraine, but the death toll "on the exercise", he refused to name, saying only that all the families of the victims will receive offset1. .

Now they can count on payments of approximately five million rubles. The sum consists of two parts: the insured sum of 2 million rubles and benefits of 3 million rubles.

The head of the working group of the Council on the protection of the rights of servicemen Sergey Krivenko noted that now in the military changed the approach to payments. They are no longertie-up1 with titles and ranks.

"Basic pay the same, whether ordinary or general died. Remain differences in benefits and privileges, but a fundamental departure from the old tradition when ordinary life was assessed in one lump sum, and the officer and general - another "- he said.

Krivenko added that 5 million payment to the families of those who died in the Russian army during the last month1 for some official reasons - is the amount required by law, and no fee allegedly for "silence", as well as rumors reached him.

Executive secretary of the Union of Committees of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia Valentina Melnikova said that many families of the victims during a training exercise in the Rostov region in the summer of 2014 has still not received all necessary documents to obtain entitlements. Criticism of human rights in this regard representatives of the Ministry of Defense recognized the fair and gave obescheniya correct errors.

http://tvrain.ru/articles/minoborony_rasskazalo_o_vyplatah_semjam_pogibshih_u_granits_ukrainy-378572/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 26, 2014, 08:04:07 AM


Now they can count on payments of approximately five million rubles. The sum consists of two parts: the insured sum of 2 million rubles and benefits of 3 million rubles.


That is not a small payment.   

For US military members who die while on active duty, insurance pays the survivors $200,000 and the US military pays a $100,000 non-taxable Death Gratuity.   Also, US survivors are eligible for other, smaller payments (e. g., education).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 26, 2014, 05:05:52 PM
Whoops, It seems that they can't handle any more of their "victory". Time for a time out.

Donbas insurgents ask UN to send peacekeepers

Russian-backed insurgent leaders in eastern Ukraine have asked the United Nations to send a peacekeeping force to the region as the humanitarian situation grows dire.

Members of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic said UN peacekeepers are necessary to 'resolve the humanitarian and social situation' that has been deteriorating since insurgents took control of the area back in April.

They've also asked for help to implement a ceasefire deal that was signed by Ukraine, Russia, insurgents and the OSCE back in September in Minsk, Belarus that has been violated repeatedly.

Since the ceasefire was signed, the UN reports over 1,000 people have been killed and Ukraine reports that between 5,000 and 10,000 Russian troops have entered Ukrainian territory.

Earlier this month, Ukrainian authorities were forced to leave government buildings in the east of the country because of threats to staff. Ukrainian authorities also had to cut off welfare payments to residents in insurgent-controlled territory because the security situation made it impossible to get money to residents.

Ukraine had requested peacekeepers from the United Nations back in April but was told by Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon that it was not practical. Any UN peacekeeping deployment must be approved the Security Council which Russia is a member and holds veto power.


http://uatoday.tv/politics/don...ekeepers-393715.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 26, 2014, 05:10:15 PM
Kyiv reports drop in regular Russian forces in Donbas
 
Over a thousand Russian soldiers leave Ukraine, National Security and Defense Council

According to a Facebook update on the page of Ukraine's Anti-Terrorist Operation on Tuesday the number of Russian troops in occupied eastern Ukraine has dropped by about 1,000. According to the statement "Instead of [using] regular Russian units, the self-proclaimed republics are trying to create their own armed forces units."

Russia denies sending troops and armour into east Ukraine, despite a growing tome of powerful evidence.

Russian leader Putin similarly denied that Russian troops annexed Ukraine's territory of Crimea in March, but later admitted that they were deployed to lead the land-grab.

Last week, Igor Girkin, a former Russian military intelligence officer and former leader of the insurgency in the Donbas region, claimed he and an elite platoon of Russian troops instigated the bloody conflict, which has claimed approaching 5000 lives

http://uatoday.tv/politics/kyiv-reports-drop-in-regular-russian-forces-in-donbas-393812.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 26, 2014, 05:27:16 PM
AK-- I think this is most likely a rotational issue--not a withdrawal.  Time will tell us more.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 26, 2014, 06:05:47 PM
Cross your fingers!

 This coupled with the other post saying that the terrorists are asking for UN Peacekeepers makes me wonder if Russia has decided to back out.  :popcorn:

 Time will tell!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on November 26, 2014, 06:07:48 PM
Cross your fingers!

 This coupled with the other thread, in Bad News, saying that the terrorists are asking for UN Peacekeepers makes me wonder if Russia has decided to back out.  :popcorn:

 Time will tell!

Not possible!  There are no Russians in Donbass - don't you listen to Putin?   :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 26, 2014, 06:30:04 PM
Oh Dear, silly me I must have been having a nightmare based on reality huh?  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 27, 2014, 02:16:33 AM
Ukraine has filed three lawsuits in the European Court against Russian government of Ukraine has filed three lawsuits in the European Court of Human Rights and the International Court # UN against the Russian Federation. This on Facebook November 26 wrote Prime Yatsenyuk. "We demand compensation for trillions of losses caused by Ukraine. Also, we have initiated the process of attracting Russian accountable in an international court for violation of the UN Convention on the fight against terrorism. The Russian Federation is funding terrorism in Ukraine, support of terrorists and violates the Convention on the fight against terrorism, "- said Yatsenyuk. # Yatsenyuk
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 27, 2014, 07:17:56 AM
Ukraine has filed three lawsuits....against the Russian Federation.

Any idea how this will be litigated, the likelihood that any awards be paid for the damages in east Ukraine?   My guess is zero probability.

My consulting company provided expert testimony for some of Kuwati's claims against Iraq for damages caused in the 1990 invasion.  The claims were addressed in the UN Compensation Commission.   Some payments were made from Iraq's oil revenues, and I believe this funding mechanism was established as part of the cease fire treaty with Iraq in 1991.

In contrast, Russia says it has not invaded east Ukraine, and even if such were proven, Russia surely would never sign a treaty requiring it to set aside oil revenues to compensate Ukraine.

Crimea?   

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 27, 2014, 05:34:12 PM
Any idea how this will be litigated, the likelihood that any awards be paid for the damages in east Ukraine?   My guess is zero probability.

My consulting company provided expert testimony for some of Kuwati's claims against Iraq for damages caused in the 1990 invasion.  The claims were addressed in the UN Compensation Commission.   Some payments were made from Iraq's oil revenues, and I believe this funding mechanism was established as part of the cease fire treaty with Iraq in 1991.

In contrast, Russia says it has not invaded east Ukraine, and even if such were proven, Russia surely would never sign a treaty requiring it to set aside oil revenues to compensate Ukraine.

Crimea?
No doubt this is a future issue.Crystal balling on it-- I can see a scenario where the time will come of Russia's capitulation as a result of Putin overplaying his hand and Russia being forced to pay.
That would be the ultimate irony-Putin set out to wage war and invade Ukraine in an attempt to break Ukraine( both economically and politically) and as a result it is what could happen to Russia itself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 27, 2014, 06:18:51 PM
BUT you can't get blood out of a turnip. If they're broke they can't and won't pay no matter what any court says.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 28, 2014, 10:18:07 AM
Ukraine has filed three lawsuits in the European Court against Russian government of Ukraine has filed three lawsuits in the European Court of Human Rights and the International Court # UN against the Russian Federation. This on Facebook November 26 wrote Prime Yatsenyuk. "We demand compensation for trillions of losses caused by Ukraine. Also, we have initiated the process of attracting Russian accountable in an international court for violation of the UN Convention on the fight against terrorism. The Russian Federation is funding terrorism in Ukraine, support of terrorists and violates the Convention on the fight against terrorism, "- said Yatsenyuk. # Yatsenyuk

"losses caused by Ukraine?"  Proofread your posts!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 28, 2014, 12:06:29 PM
Ohh Good catch  :clapping: . I think we all missed it although we understood anyway.  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on November 28, 2014, 01:28:32 PM
Gazeta.ru reported this evening that oil prices dropped down to $66 a barrel on the New York markets. The tone of the several articles published on the topic today is approaching panic. It is starting to sink in that this is likely more than a blip. It is truly a "Made in Russia" crisis as one of their pieces put it. Russia will be hit by lower prices that might cost the country half-a-billion or so per day (or more if prices drop even further) and that with capital flight, sanctions and reforms that were never carried out will cost the economy dearly...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 28, 2014, 01:34:41 PM
The Ruble is dropping also.. 49.90 to the dollar.

Arrival of a Canadian Air Force plane delivering equipment for Ukraine's armed forces, tonight, in Kyiv Boryspil airport.   :welcome: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 28, 2014, 02:03:57 PM
Bummer Vlad!  :cluebat:


So the main news driving trading on Friday was a decision made Thursday by the OPEC oil cartel to keep production at 30 million barrels a day. That announcement hit oil prices hard as traders expect the global supply of oil to stay high. Crude oil slumped 8 percent to $67.46 in the late afternoon.  :o

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/29/business/daily-stock-market-activity.html?_r=0

The ruble went down to 49.52 against the dollar by 12:30 MSK Friday, weaker than the previous close at 49.28 rubles per dollar. The ruble’s rate to the euro has hit a record 61.63.  :snivel:

Russian dependence on oil exports makes the ruble and ruble-denominated assets vulnerable to changes in the oil price.

http://rt.com/business/209659-russian-index-record-low/

Gazprom is so poor that the Russian government felt sorry for them and thanks to their generosity Gazprom doesn't have to pay tax for 15 years... (:)


http://inforesist.org/putin-na-15-let-osvobodil-gazprom-ot-nalogov/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 28, 2014, 02:11:12 PM
The Ruble is dropping also.. 49.90 to the dollar.

Arrival of a Canadian Air Force plane delivering equipment for Ukraine's armed forces, tonight, in Kyiv Boryspil airport.   :welcome: :clapping: :clapping:

Our (civilian) volunteer medical teams are now in theatre as well.  :clapping:

I see Mother Corp still insists on calling Russia's invasion a "revolution" though. :rolleyes:

Canadian surgeons reconstruct people wounded in Ukraine's revolution

..."Medical team on mission to help those injured in violent conflict

Dr. Oleh Antonyshyn hauls two large black cases onto a luggage cart at Toronto's Pearson International Airport. He unzips one of them to reveal an assortment of medical devices and surgeon's tools.

"Saws, drills, power equipment, surgical foam, titanium mesh," he says. "All the devices we need to put facial bones and fractured hands back together again."

Antonyshyn, a plastic surgeon and head of the craniofacial program at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre in Toronto, and a team of 24 other surgeons, nurses and doctors volunteered for a 10-day mission this month to Ukraine. There, they helped mend the wounded from nearly a year of revolution and violent conflict.

Casualties, one as young as 16, were still wearing the scars of the fight to overthrow former president Viktor Yanukovich and then the war with pro-Russian separatists in the east.

"Can't wait," says Antonyshyn, the son of Ukranian immigrants to Canada."...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadian-surgeons-reconstruct-people-wounded-in-ukraine-s-revolution-1.2847053

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 28, 2014, 02:34:57 PM
On a similar note,

For a $300 annual commitment (one-time annual gift or $25 monthly installments), we can help a wounded soldier pay for medical equipment, medicine, clothing, food and other necessities.

Adopt a Wounded Ukrainian Soldier

http://www.uuarc.org/our-progr...d-ukrainian-soldier/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 28, 2014, 04:36:06 PM
The Ruble is dropping also.. 49.90 to the dollar.

Arrival of a Canadian Air Force plane delivering equipment for Ukraine's armed forces, tonight, in Kyiv Boryspil airport.   :welcome: :clapping: :clapping:

I also applaud Canada for doing more than any other nation to help Ukraine in this dark hour.  I eagerly await a new Republican Congress in January and sincerely hope they will finally give real weapons to this country so they can properly defend their sovereign territory against the Russian invasion.

And I also hope and pray that the triple whammy of low oil prices, a plunging Ruble and continued economic sanctions might help the Zombies in Russia to finally wake-up and smell the coffee.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 28, 2014, 04:59:27 PM
Gazeta.ru reported this evening that oil prices dropped down to $66 a barrel on the New York markets. The tone of the several articles published on the topic today is approaching panic. It is starting to sink in that this is likely more than a blip. It is truly a "Made in Russia" crisis as one of their pieces put it. Russia will be hit by lower prices that might cost the country half-a-billion or so per day (or more if prices drop even further) and that with capital flight, sanctions and reforms that were never carried out will cost the economy dearly...

I just wonder how the Russian Oligarchs feel who might be able to enact regime change in Russia.  I expect the most powerful ones are whispering plots right now.

 :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 28, 2014, 05:10:49 PM
Jay:
'...Defense Ministry of Russia: There were no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but the families of the dead will receive 5 million rubles..'

Makes me laugh- so absurd, and it says a lot about Moscow's deception. Funny but sad.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 28, 2014, 05:27:49 PM
Aww Shucks Guys.. Oil might drip to new lows..

Russia might have a problem.  :eeekk:

Oil could plummet to $35 a barrel next year if OPEC doesn't reach an agreement by the spring, oil price tracker Tom Kloza said Wednesday.

The founder of Oil Price Information Services told CNBC's "Squawk Box" that he expects at least a "lip service agreement" from OPEC members Thursday, when they meet to discuss output, but the members will largely ignore it, creating a bigger crisis in about six months.

"When you look at the second half of 2015, that's when you see oil beginning to dwarf demand by about a million, a million and a half barrels a day," he said. "Thirty-five dollars is a possibility if they don't get an agreement next spring because that's when the oil really starts to build and you can have a billion barrels of oil with really no place to put it."




http://www.cnbc.com/id/102219498
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 28, 2014, 05:55:05 PM
Why isn't Doll here to gloat about how that midget president is making the economy of her country sooooo very strong?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 28, 2014, 05:57:23 PM
Her silence says a lot! :crackwhip: :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 28, 2014, 06:46:59 PM
I also applaud Canada for doing more than any other nation to help Ukraine in this dark hour.  I eagerly await a new Republican Congress in January and sincerely hope they will finally give real weapons to this country so they can properly defend their sovereign territory against the Russian invasion.

And I also hope and pray that the triple whammy of low oil prices, a plunging Ruble and continued economic sanctions might help the Zombies in Russia to finally wake-up and smell the coffee.


 :clapping:     :clapping:      :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 29, 2014, 11:11:17 AM
Aww Shucks Guys.. Oil might drip to new lows..

Russia might have a problem.  :eeekk:

Oil could plummet to $35 a barrel next year if OPEC doesn't reach an agreement by the spring, oil price tracker Tom Kloza said Wednesday.

The founder of Oil Price Information Services told CNBC's "Squawk Box" that he expects at least a "lip service agreement" from OPEC members Thursday, when they meet to discuss output, but the members will largely ignore it, creating a bigger crisis in about six months.

"When you look at the second half of 2015, that's when you see oil beginning to dwarf demand by about a million, a million and a half barrels a day," he said. "Thirty-five dollars is a possibility if they don't get an agreement next spring because that's when the oil really starts to build and you can have a billion barrels of oil with really no place to put it."




http://www.cnbc.com/id/102219498

I always like articles that include words like ones highlighted........shows where the 'writers' POV is!!! Where's my crystal ball !!!!  Would be nice to see an 'expect', 'predict' word somewhere there...

I might jump off a cliff if my stocks fall but that could happen only if I follow my crystal ball!! :o
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2014, 11:22:54 AM
That's why they call them oil futures and they predict with available information and trends.

 If they knew for 100% sure they would call it oil history.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 29, 2014, 12:11:16 PM
That's why they call them oil futures and they predict with available information and trends.

 If they knew for 100% sure they would call it oil history.


Don't confuse him with the obvious, Mike.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 29, 2014, 12:48:26 PM
The bad news for Russia is the result of Putin's foolish ambitions. Here's a great article that takes a closer look at Putin's motivations, and his lack of logic.
see:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/putin-will-regret-interfering-in-the-donbass/511964.html

a quote from that article:
'...Putin has now lost the initiative that he seized in Crimea by turning the bloody battle over Donbass into an unresolvable stalemate...'
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 29, 2014, 01:58:13 PM
Her silence says a lot! :crackwhip: :crackwhip:
You are right- i am sick of what people say here
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2014, 02:15:46 PM
We're sick of the murder and mayhem that the Kremlin is doing in Ukraine also. You blindly supporting that regime shows your mettle. Enjoy the dirt soup.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 29, 2014, 02:40:47 PM
You are right- i am sick of what people say here

Do you think hubby is going to like Mother Russia when you go back?  Is he also pro-Russian?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 29, 2014, 03:03:40 PM
Putin and the people of Russia need to understand:
The Euromaidan revolution was created by the people of Ukraine, not the governments of the West.

The people of Ukraine choose democracy, freedom, and an end to severe corruption. In Moscow, there is a fake democracy, similar to Yanukovych. In Moscow, freedom of speech is very limited. Do the people of Russia want to own and control the people of Ukraine? Are the people of Ukraine allowed to choose democracy? Russia does not own Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2014, 03:18:36 PM
Russia is the only country at fault in the Ukraine conflict


http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/11/27/russia-is-the-only-country-at-fault-in-the-ukraine-conflict/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2014, 04:58:57 PM
Food Cards for parts of Russia

Due to falling oil prices and sanctions imposed against Russia and it appeared in the country serious problems with food. So the Russian State Duma mass receives letters of appreciation buckwheat flour and other seemingly quite ordinary goods. The government reacted immediately, the country introduced the card for food, according Patriots Ukraine with reference to the Russian media.

To begin to test the card system will be in four regions of Russia, Saratov, Omsk and Ulyanovsk region and in the Republic of Mordovia. According to the Russian authorities approved a project to buy the cards can only domestically produced goods. Alcoholic beverages and tobacco products in the list of socially important products will not be included, but the cards will buy food for guaranteed low prices, social, writes "Russian planet."

The idea of ​​introducing ration cards belonging to the head of the Ministry of Agriculture of Russia Nikolai Fyodorov. He identified four pilot regions above and termed project start: end 2015.

It is worth noting that the predecessor of the current Minister Alexei Gordeev performed a similar idea in 2008, when Russia invaded Georgia, and in some regions there was a shortage of goods. Then, however, major Western sanctions have not followed, and the situation in grocery stores failed to normalize without such drastic measures, resulting in project administration decided to postpone the cards "for a rainy day." Now, apparently, it was really a day.

It is assumed that the card while delivering not all Russians, but poor. These sponsors enrolled incomplete and large families, single mothers and disabled people of different groups. If successful, the card project in Mordovia, Ulyanovsk, Saratov and Omsk regions, this experience is proposed to extend to the whole of.
translated by google. UA link
http://patrioty.org.ua/u-rosiyi-pochali-vvoditi-produktovi-kartochki/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 29, 2014, 05:04:35 PM
Putin and the people of Russia need to understand:
The Euromaidan revolution was created by the people of Ukraine, not the governments of the West.

The people of Ukraine choose democracy, freedom, and an end to severe corruption.

Let us see where this goes in the coming year/s.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2014, 05:22:42 PM
With time and work it'll get there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2014, 11:36:06 PM
Russia Makes A Desperate Plea To The EU

Russia urged the European Union on Saturday to lift sanctions against Moscow and promised to waive its food embargo, but a top EU official rejected such a move as the bloc imposed fresh measures on Ukrainian rebels.

The European Union and the United States imposed economic sanctions on Russia in late July, targeting the Russian energy, banking and defense sectors to punish Moscow's support for rebels in eastern Ukraine, the West's toughest steps yet.

In retaliation, Moscow has banned most Western food imports, worth $9 billion a year.

"We don't expect anything from our European partners. The only thing we expect is for them to leave the meaningless sanctions spiral and move onto the path of lifting the sanctions and dropping the blacklists," Russia's deputy foreign minister, Alexei Meshkov, was quoted as saying by Interfax news agency.

"This, in turn, would allow us to drop our lists."

The gesture from Moscow came as the European Union imposed sanctions on 13 Ukrainians accused of organizing rogue elections in eastern Ukraine on Nov. 2, hitting the separatists and their organizations with asset freezes and travel bans.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-asks-eu-to-lift-sanctions-2014-11#ixzz3KWzrfPKX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 30, 2014, 12:04:16 AM
You really can't make this stuff up!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Russia Wants Bulgarians to Stop Vandalizing Soviet Monuments To Look Like American Superheroes

The Moscow Times is reporting that Bulgarian pranksters are repainting Soviet-era monuments so that the Soviet military heroes depicted are recast as American Superheroes (h/t to trans-atlantyk posting at reddit’s /r/worldnews):


Russia is demanding that Bulgaria try harder to prevent vandalism of Soviet monuments, after yet another monument to Soviet troops in Sofia was spray-painted, ITAR-Tass reported.

The Russian Embassy in Bulgaria has issued a note demanding that its former Soviet-era ally clean up the monument in Sofia’s Lozenets district, identify and punish those responsible, and take “exhaustive measures” to prevent similar attacks in the future, the news agency reported Monday.

The monument was sprayed with red paint on the eve of the Bulgarian Socialist Party’s celebration of its 123rd anniversary, the Sofia-based Novinite news agency reported.

The vandalism was the latest in a series of similar recent incidents in Bulgaria — each drawing angry criticism from Moscow…
- See more at: http://disinfo.com/2014/08/russia-wants-bulgarians-stop-vandalizing-soviet-monuments-look-like-american-superheroes/#sthash.31hQs5bW.j2x91a1Y.dpuf
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 30, 2014, 12:33:08 AM
Russia Makes A Desperate Plea To The EU


I wonder if that plea was made while kneeling down...  :-\
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 30, 2014, 12:38:00 AM
LOL, I doubt that!  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on November 30, 2014, 01:15:48 AM
Ah, but the irony is that Europe is exporting to Russia via Belarus  :-X  It is even causing a tiff between the two countries as Lukashenko reacted quite strongly to Russia's actions trying to stop the flow of goods, thus undermining the "Eurasian Union." If anything, the sanctions are working better than planned... 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on November 30, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
I wonder if that plea was made while kneeling down...  :-\


As one Russian source that I read a few days ago noted, Russia rose up from its knees scorning the West, in order to kneel before OPEC begging for them to cut production and keep oil prices high... >:D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 05:16:45 AM
We're sick of the murder and mayhem that the Kremlin is doing in Ukraine also. You blindly supporting that regime shows your mettle. Enjoy the dirt soup.
How about Iraq and Iran? You are not sick of it?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 05:23:40 AM
Food Cards for parts of Russia


How long has the food stamps system AND welfare  been existing in the USA?
Forever
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 07:00:57 AM
I wonder if that plea was made while kneeling down...  :-\
Who is kneeling down? Russians? Seriously, go read the history of Russia. It has NEVER happened, will never happen. Remember.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 30, 2014, 08:39:16 AM
Do Russians hate Ukrainians? Do Russians hate the Tartars? What Putin has done in Ukraine, has pushed most Ukrainians away from him and from Russia. Is that a good thing? Have you read the statement by the Russian, Girkin/Strelkov? He was the leader of the military in Donetsk, and he's a Russian citizen. Look at his statements and Putin's goals become obvious.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 08:47:56 AM
Do Russians hate Ukrainians? Do Russians hate the Tartars?

No and no
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 08:52:12 AM
Photo Guy, how about my question about Iraq and Iran and Americans NOT being sick of it?
None of those countries are even in same half of globe
No sanctions, nothing
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 30, 2014, 09:05:13 AM
I'm sick of it, but it is all out in the open. The US and the West are not trying to invade Iraq. ISIL is moving towards Bagdad and there would be a slaughter there if not stopped. I think the United Nations should stop ISIL. Slaughter is a bad thing. The US is not in Iran. The US is not trying to establish a New America in the middle east.

I don't have a problem with food stamps. It's a question of degree- how many food stamps. I think we all want economic prosperity, but Russia is hurting their own people by making people afraid to do business with them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 30, 2014, 09:14:16 AM
Putin has said that he would like his country to be 'respected', but how do you respect a country that threatens their neighbors?
1- Putin considers Ukraine to be a part of Russia
2- Putin is angry that the people of Ukraine choose a European political system, rather than a leadership in Moscow

So Putin does not respect the people of Ukraine. Does he respect the people of Mariupol' who mostly speak Russian? No, I do not think so. He wants those people to become a part of 'New Russia'. He does not care about the people of Ukraine who want to be independent from him, from Russia. He wants those ethnic Russians to die, because they reject him and his dictatorship.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 30, 2014, 09:20:30 AM
Also, what do Russians think about people in Donetsk or Luhansk, who prefer to be Ukrainian? Those people will run away, or be killed. Is that okay? Have you read any of the statements from Tartars in Crimea? Why does Putin pretend that Russia is not supplying military aid to Donetsk and Luhansk? He is contradicted by Strelkov/Girkin
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 30, 2014, 10:12:49 AM
I just got this private message from Doll after I sent her a link to the Strelkov/Girkin interview:

пошел ты!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 30, 2014, 11:30:45 AM
I just got this private message from Doll after I sent her a link to the Strelkov/Girkin interview:

пошел ты!



So YOU send Doll a private message, and then she responds to you privately and YOU bring the matter up publicly, and YOU disclose the contents of her private response.....seems like you desperately want to agitate Doll because you don't approve of her opinion.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 11:46:28 AM


I don't have a problem with food stamps. It's a question of degree- how many food stamps. I think we all want economic prosperity, but Russia is hurting their own people by making people afraid to do business with them.
The amount of people on food stamps in the USA is awful
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 11:49:31 AM
I just got this private message from Doll after I sent her a link to the Strelkov/Girkin interview:

пошел ты!


Since when we make private message public?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 11:51:56 AM

So YOU send Doll a private message, and then she responds to you privately and YOU bring the matter up publicly, and YOU disclose the contents of her private response.....seems like you desperately want to agitate Doll because you don't approve of her opinion.


Fathertime!
i reported to moderator
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AnonMod on November 30, 2014, 11:52:50 AM
Public insults stop.  Now.  If you cannot carry on a civil conversation, these threads will be deleted.

See this thread for guidelines.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17793.msg370462#msg370462
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 30, 2014, 12:13:41 PM
i reported to moderator


good...the follow up insulting post by that other member was in poor taste...it looks like moderation has edited out some of the quoted text without our posts.  Your opinion overall is not at all what certain strident members want to read, so they attempt their own version of moderation by attempting to rile/intimidate you....obviously it isn't working!


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 30, 2014, 12:16:37 PM
I simply sent Doll a link to an article. That's a no-no?
I will happily refrain from sending her links.
...And I will not curse at anyone here in public or in private.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 12:51:47 PM
I simply sent Doll a link to an article. That's a no-no?
I will happily refrain from sending her links.
...And I will not curse at anyone here in public or in private.
еще раз-пошел нафиг, придурок
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on November 30, 2014, 04:36:24 PM
The bad news for Russia is the result of Putin's foolish ambitions. Here's a great article that takes a closer look at Putin's motivations, and his lack of logic.
see:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/putin-will-regret-interfering-in-the-donbass/511964.html

a quote from that article:
'...Putin has now lost the initiative that he seized in Crimea by turning the bloody battle over Donbass into an unresolvable stalemate...'

Very interesting footnote...and probably way overdue (not just for this website, but for every other similar one).

Quote from: Moscow Times
Dear reader,

 Due to the increasing number of users engaging in personal attacks, spam, trolling and abusive comments, we are no longer able to host our forum as a site for constructive and intelligent debate.

It is with regret, therefore, that we have found ourselves forced to suspend the commenting function on our articles.

 The Moscow Times remains committed to the principle of public debate and hopes to welcome you to a new, constructive forum in the future.

 Regards,

 The Moscow Times
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 30, 2014, 06:05:43 PM
Who is kneeling down? Russians? Seriously, go read the history of Russia. It has NEVER happened, will never happen. Remember.

Pretty sure they were on their knees when the Mongols invaded and conquered them in the 13th century.
Probably on their knees as well when they were forced to sign that humiliating peace treaty to end the war with Germany in 1917.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 30, 2014, 06:46:39 PM
Borispil airport workers “decorate” Russian aircraft

Workers at the Boryspil Airport near Kyiv decorated an Aeroflot Russian Airlines aircraft with graffiti about Putin and Pushkin, reports Espreso TV, November 30.

Using a black marker on the body and engines of the aircraft, they scrawled the famous obscene chant of soccer fans about Putin : “Putin kh**lo.” In addition, they placed the inscription “Russians read your Pushkin. Think” on the sensor of the aircraft, avianews.com reports.

The incident occurred sometime in the evening on November 28, in the parking lot near Terminal D.

As reported by LB.ua, the inscriptions were made by several airport employees. They have been detained by airport security, but it is not known if they have been released yet.

Attempts were made to remove the offensive inscriptions but the work was not completed due to insufficient time.  Therefore, the plane flew to its destination bearing a portion of the chant “Putin kh**lo.”



http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/12/01/borispil-airport-workers-decorate-russian-aircraft/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 30, 2014, 07:04:53 PM
So Putler can afford to fund proxy wars in neighbouring countries, yet he can't afford to fund his own country's health system properly.
Talking about getting your priorities screwed up!

http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-rally-moscow-against-health-care-cuts-121040510.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 30, 2014, 08:55:41 PM
Not to mention the loans to the gas company (Roseneft?) from the dedicated pension fund of 40+ Billion USD.

 There's liable to be some old folks PO's when they can only afford dirt and mud.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 10:28:43 PM

good...the follow up insulting post by that other member was in poor taste...it looks like moderation has edited out some of the quoted text without our posts.  Your opinion overall is not at all what certain strident members want to read, so they attempt their own version of moderation by attempting to rile/intimidate you....obviously it isn't working!


Fathertime!
moderator edited my response but not PG's so everything is clear
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 30, 2014, 11:18:46 PM
How about Iraq and Iran? You are not sick of it?

Do you mean Iraq and Syria?  No I am not sick of it, in fact the sooner we kill more of ISIS the happier I am; as is the rest of the sane world.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 30, 2014, 11:25:56 PM
Pretty sure they were on their knees when the Mongols invaded and conquered them in the 13th century.
Probably on their knees as well when they were forced to sign that humiliating peace treaty to end the war with Germany in 1917.


Russia was also on their knees in 1942-1943.  In fact Stalin offered a negotiated settlement to Hitler which would have ceded borders back to what they were in 1914 but Hitler foolishly refused.  Russia is on the brink of serious recession and it's only going to get worse.  1998?  On their knees. 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 30, 2014, 11:36:17 PM
Knee pads and wheelbarrows to carry Roubles would be popular Christmas presents over there this year...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 30, 2014, 11:39:47 PM
Knee pads and wheelbarrows to carry Roubles would be popular Christmas presents over there this year...

 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 30, 2014, 11:45:28 PM
You really can't make this stuff up!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Russia Wants Bulgarians to Stop Vandalizing Soviet Monuments To Look Like American Superheroes

The Moscow Times is reporting that Bulgarian pranksters are repainting Soviet-era monuments so that the Soviet military heroes depicted are recast as American Superheroes (h/t to trans-atlantyk posting at reddit’s /r/worldnews):


Russia is demanding that Bulgaria try harder to prevent vandalism of Soviet monuments, after yet another monument to Soviet troops in Sofia was spray-painted, ITAR-Tass reported.

The Russian Embassy in Bulgaria has issued a note demanding that its former Soviet-era ally clean up the monument in Sofia’s Lozenets district, identify and punish those responsible, and take “exhaustive measures” to prevent similar attacks in the future, the news agency reported Monday.

The monument was sprayed with red paint on the eve of the Bulgarian Socialist Party’s celebration of its 123rd anniversary, the Sofia-based Novinite news agency reported.

The vandalism was the latest in a series of similar recent incidents in Bulgaria — each drawing angry criticism from Moscow…
- See more at: http://disinfo.com/2014/08/russia-wants-bulgarians-stop-vandalizing-soviet-monuments-look-like-american-superheroes/#sthash.31hQs5bW.j2x91a1Y.dpuf


It just keeps getting better and better.  As much as the Russians hate America, this must really infuriate the poor bastards.  :popcorn: 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 30, 2014, 11:46:10 PM
It's getting much better!

50/1 will seem like a very good deal in a couple of months!
80/1 or 90/1 will be the go to numbers.

Putler is ruining Russia very quickly. Time for another Maidan but in Moscow!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 30, 2014, 11:55:08 PM
It's getting much better!

50/1 will seem like a very good deal in a couple of months!
80/1 or 90/1 will be the go to numbers.

Putler is ruining Russia very quickly. Time for another Maidan but in Moscow!

I'm sure you already know it Mike, but that was part of his rationale for invading Ukraine.  Because as Ukraine gets closer to the EU, he was deathly afraid that Russians would also rise up and demand to have a better country modeled more closer to the European model. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AnonMod on December 01, 2014, 01:03:35 AM
The next time I am forced to remove posts, the thread will be closed and warnings issued.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 02, 2014, 03:09:18 AM
This attack is believed to have been bt Russian Special Forces-- they suffered significant losses.
The report--
The enemy again tried to attack the military airport in Donetsk. Reuters Militants again suffered losses in the unsuccessful assault airport During the last days militants in Donbas 41 times with artillery, mortars and multiple rocket launchers tried to attack the forces ATO position in Lugansk, Donetsk and Mariupol Debal'tsevo and directions. This was as of Monday morning, December 1, reports the press center ATO on his page on Facebook. Read more: Near the Donetsk airport is the third time leader wounded fighters "Motorola" - media In particular, according to security officials, volleys of artillery and mortar rounds were heard in the vicinity of settlements Sokolniki, Kryakivka, Crimea, Artem Nyzhnoteple, villages Lugansk, Makarov, Trohizbenka, Happiness, Heyivka, Sands, Donetsk, Avdiyivka, thin, questionnaire, Bohdanivka, Nikishin, Maloorlovka, Debal'tsevo, Novolaspa, Mykolaivka, Pavlopil. In addition, the militants continue to attack Donetsk airport. "For the assault involved a fight Russian detachment of special purpose. Our guys again repulsed the enemy attack. The attackers retreated, taking heavy losses," - stressed the headquarters of ATO.   
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/rosiyski-specpriznachenci-zaznali-velikih-vtrat-pid-chas-nevdalogo-shturmu-kiborgiv-394723.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 02, 2014, 03:17:39 AM
Putin Russians losing confidence
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/svit/u-rosiyi-raptovo-vpav-reyting-putina-394759.html

The Russian leader for a month lost six points trust of citizens. Reuters Putin Russians losing confidence In electoral President Vladimir Putin's rating dropped 6 points - from 88% to 82%. Overall, the number of those willing to presidential election to vote for Putin declined again from the beginning of hostilities in eastern Ukraine. Last fall was recorded in September. See also: Putin wants Ukraine, Russia and the world promuchylysya with him for 10 years - Nemtsov If the presidential election were held next to the RF survey day Sunday, Putin would have voted for 53%, according to the "Levada Center". Among those who have already decided on the choice, prefer the current leader of the Russian Federation expressed 82%. Earlier in October, Putin's electoral rating reached a record high of 88%, the previous peak was reached in August (87%), says RBC .  Deputy Director "Levada Center" Alexei Grazhdankin says that the October increase Putin's rating has been linked to the achievement of formal truce in the Donbas. The survey was conducted November 21-24 among 1,600 people in 134 locations. The statistical error does not exceed 3.4%.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/svit/u-rosiyi-raptovo-vpav-reyting-putina-394759.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 02, 2014, 03:28:13 AM
And more==  some time ago I quoted a figure of 10.000 plus( in response to a forum question)-- piece by piece  information is being confirmed.The figure below on injured would be very conservative--certainly all the hospitals close are full-- and troops were being sent to Saint Petersburg -- I cant see Putin cabable of continueing to sell this to the Russian people for too much longer--the truth has a way of appearing--even to those to thick to interpret!!--Report below--
Score dead Russian soldiers allegedly goes to thousands. Reuters Russia has suffered serious losses during the war in the East "Cyborg" with the call sign "Marshal" , which along with other security forces heroically defends Donetsk airport from enemy forces, described the frantic loss of the Russian army in battles in eastern Ukraine. On his page "Marshall" posted a link to the blog of Oleg Yarchuk , in which he is counting losses of Russian soldiers during the fighting on the territory of Ukraine. The blogger, in particular, wrote about 4672 dead Russian soldiers and 970 wounded. Missing as of December 2, 2014 2560 alleged Russian soldiers.  See also: "Soldiers' Mothers of Russia" showed the mysterious death notification soldier killed in Ukraine "I advise you to read, which is the loss of on the planet! One hundred percent not tell, but judging from the information I know about the attacks on our" adversary "for the war on all fronts, which are not discussed in the news. The colossal loss in them, and that's a fact. I am proud that I am a fighter Ukraine! dill! "- wrote" Cyborg "on his page in the social network Facebook. 
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/kiborg-marshal-rozpoviv-pro-kolosalni-vtrati-rosiyskoyi-armiyi-na-donbasi-395026.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 02, 2014, 05:17:41 AM
It appears bad news comes in threes...

Even the regime is forced to admit the likelihood of a recession next year.
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-warns-recession-next-102222822--finance.html

Rouble collapsed to almost 53 to a dollar.
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-ruble-takes-nosedive-low-oil-prices-080027202--finance.html

South Stream pipeline now scrapped.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gazprom-ceo-says-south-stream-183525486.html

Can the midget president cock things up anymore than what he already has?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on December 02, 2014, 01:10:32 PM
Putin signed a very telling law, one that specifies that the salaries of civil servants would not be indexed to inflation in 2015. This seems to be and indirect way to deal with the possibility of major budget shortfalls: devalue the currency so you effectively make major cuts to the expenses without having to directly cut salaries or eliminate civil servants (that would include your always growing police force...).


Prices are going up. My sister-in-law was mentioning that grechka went up from 40-or-roubles per kilogram to 70+ roubles...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 02, 2014, 06:23:29 PM
Gator,

You watch the oil industry?  Any predictions for a $60 / per barrel market (or lower)?  If so, that should create some very interesting economic situations - an opportunity to make some real money.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 02, 2014, 07:18:15 PM
Gator,

You watch the oil industry?  Any predictions for a $60 / per barrel market (or lower)?  If so, that should create some very interesting economic situations - an opportunity to make some real money.

I assume you mean only on the rebound?  If and when.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 02, 2014, 08:10:16 PM
More in reference to post above--#735
fwiw-- in any translaation the numbers are clear enough!!
Biryukov: up to 27 Russian SOF & 25-30 militants were killed yesterday in Donetsk airport

Юрий Бирюков
Yesterday at 06:13 ·
Оперативная по Донецкому аэропорту, 20:56 понедельника: в общем, слухи про некий спецназ из России - не слухи. Прибыло несколько десятков каких-то специфических "космонавтов", которые повели массу организмов на штурм.
В общем, если потом россияне будут говорить о нас, как о негостеприимной нации - не удивляйтесь. По данным перехвата СепарРадио - 27 спецназовцев отправились сегодня утром домой, в уютных гробиках. Порядка 25-30 местных организмов тоже закончили свой жизненный путь. Ранены 2 полевых командира - если про эту шваль можно так говорить.
Стоит ли лезть на нашу землю? Нет не стоит, это опасно. Мы гостеприимная нация, но только к друзьям.
Инфо рекомендуется к расшариванию - пусть побольше ваты будет предупреждено о тщетности потуг. Донецкий аэропорт под контролем ВСУ.
Operating in Donetsk airport, 20:56 Monday: in General, the rumors some special forces from Russia, not rumors. Several dozen have any specific "astronauts" who led the mass of organisms in an assault.

In General, if the Russians will then speak about us as about the inhospitable nation-don't be surprised. According to catch SeparRadio-27 special forces went home this morning, the cosy grobikah. Approximately 25-30 local organisms also finished their life path. Field commander-2 injured when about this called so to speak.

Is it worth to go to our land? It's not worth it, it's dangerous. We are a welcoming nation, but only to friends.

Info is sharing their-let more cotton will be informed about the futility of powers. Donetsk airport under the control of the SUPREME COURT.Translated by Bing
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 02, 2014, 11:09:59 PM
closed $ 66.80
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102229304#.

$ 50 a barrel possible

$ 40 possible
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/energy/can-oil-prices-drop-40-barrel-some-say-its-possible-n258946

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 03, 2014, 01:37:54 AM
Donetsk guerrillas continue underground struggle with the Russian-terrorist invaders. VIDEO
Donetsk guerrillas continue underground struggle with the Russian-terrorist invaders. Partizan from Donetsk with the nickname Johan Karlsen has published a progress report on the achievements of Donetsk underground in the fight against pro-Russian gangs occupied the city. "Lord bandits and Russian terrorists. You were warned that night - it is dangerous for your Health? warned. Meanwhile, the guerrilla movement continues to drive it kicks Brownian motion, "- said the report. Horlovks # # Yasinovataya Night continues to take the lives of local bandits, standing alone at checkpoints. Picks up only with a knife in the neck. # MAKEEVKA In the neighborhood green garnet was destroyed by terrorists minibus, which was carrying ammunition. Stupid terrorists, this is clearly not waiting for a long time because shastali throughout the area and were very evil (video - below) # Debaltseve . Well-planned ambush actions and proper planning, making heavy and unsightly life of Russians is much darker. Panic - a great thing, especially if the opponent is well-read in zaparke fun to shoot each other. Under the guise of deprived 2 APCs. Unfortunately, in itself Debaltseve as locality, had ceased to exist. Russian terrorists to the ground destroyed all the buildings. # Partizan http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/9086-doneckie-partizany-p ..
http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/9086-doneckie-partizany-prodolzhayut-podpolnuyu-borbu-s-rossiysko-terroristicheskimi

Partizan from Donetsk with the nickname  Johan Karlsen  posted on Facebook the next report on the achievements of Donetsk underground in the fight against the occupied city of pro-Russian gangs.

"Lord bandits and Russian terrorists. You were warned that night - it is dangerous to your health? Warned. Meanwhile, the guerrilla movement continues to drive it kicks Brownian motion," - said the report.

Horlovks #  # Yasinovataya
Night continues to take the lives of local bandits, standing alone at checkpoints. Picks up only with a knife in the neck.

# MAKEEVKA
In the neighborhood green garnet was destroyed by terrorists minibus, which was carrying ammunition. Stupid terrorists, this is clearly not waiting for a long time because shastali throughout the area and were very evil (video - below)

# Debaltseve .
Well-planned ambush actions and proper planning, making heavy and unsightly life of Russians is much darker. Panic - a great thing, especially if the opponent is well-read in zaparke fun to shoot each other. Under the guise of deprived 2 APCs. Unfortunately, in itself Debaltseve as locality, had ceased to exist. Russian terrorists to the ground destroyed all the buildings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oOMTo2uptY

Published on 29 Nov 2014
As it became known, in Makeyevka, in the neighborhood of Green minibus killed by unknown gunmen. Details are unknown, or threw a grenade, or set on fire, but burned notably, and explosions carried ammunition to unroll the entire area.
Once the machine had burned down Brava militia DNR shakedown at the beginning of a real neighborhood, interrogated local residents and cordoned off the surrounding streets.
On the causes of fire talk is meaningless, in the realities of the occupied territories to know that either it will be extremely difficult, and whether the investigation of the incident? But, we can say with some confidence that the militants nix arranged after the fire was not casual, but because - someone apparently tried.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 03, 2014, 11:35:47 AM
Gator,

You watch the oil industry? 

I watch the business news, so it would be impossible to miss the large downward move in oil prices.   


Quote
Any predictions for a $60 / per barrel market (or lower)?

As I explained here before, the price is a lesson from Natural Resource Economics 101.  Namely, if you own a valuable natural resource in limited supply, discourage competitive supplies from being developed.   

The Saudi goal is to curtail fracking.  Fracking has been successful in the US in reducing our need for imported oil.  Fracking was gaining much momentum,  and in 10 years or so we could be self-sufficient.  Europe is only in the beginning stages of implementing fracking and perhaps eventually could be another huge supply of new sources of oil. 

If OPEC had curtailed production to keep prices high, the fracking and conventional drilling would have continued and produced more supply.  That in turn would drive oil prices down, and in a few years the oil price would be as low as it is today, and OPEC then would have a smaller share of the market (and less revenue than today).

Fracking is expensive, and if the price of oil drops, fracking will not be fully implemented, and Saudi keeps it share of the market.   

How low can oil prices drop?  Fracking costs about $60 to produce a barrel of oil.  So the Saudis need to oversupply the market to get the prices to $50-55/bbl.   I doubt it would go lower than that.  Also, I do not expect dramatic increases for a long time.   

Although the $60/bbl price is hurting the Russian economy, Russia too will benefit over the long term as it is in the same boat as the Saudis.  Russians have the stamina to weather a storm, i. e. a recession.      Also, the conflict in eastern Ukraine surely has delayed fracking of the shale there.   IMO a drop in the price of oil is unwelcome yet will not deter Russia Putin.




 
Quote
If so, that should create some very interesting economic situations - an opportunity to make some real money.



I do not trade oil futures. I consider them a zero sum game, and people much smarter than me would eat my lunch.  I am not a day trader either  as I do not stay glued to my computer screen. 

Shorting is a possibility.  But most of the decline has taken place.  For example, SDRL (a $15 Billion company who drills in the North Sea) was $40 in the summer and is now $13.  Airlines OTOH have jumped, yet there may still be room upwards in the least hedged companies.  They are volatile, and not being a stock jockey I avoid them.

Good luck.  I hope you catch a wave. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 03, 2014, 04:54:01 PM
Intervention by the Bank of Russia has no effect on falling Ruble:


http://online.wsj.com/articles/bank-of-russia-spent-700-million-dec-1-trying-to-ease-ruble-pressure-1417592893
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on December 04, 2014, 02:27:44 AM
And when it rains, it pours...


Sadly, there are reports that somewhere between 100 and 200 terrorists are now holed up in schools and daycare centres in Grozny. However, that hasn't dampened the mood of Putin's speech, which can be summed up thus: Americans are the source of all evil and we are a great power.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 04, 2014, 08:49:27 AM
It seems even the hookers in Russia are forced to up their prices  due to the collapsing Rouble...

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-30311546

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 04, 2014, 10:29:38 AM
I watch the business news, so it would be impossible to miss the large downward move in oil prices.   


As I explained here before, the price is a lesson from Natural Resource Economics 101.  Namely, if you own a valuable natural resource in limited supply, discourage competitive supplies from being developed.   

The Saudi goal is to curtail fracking.  Fracking has been successful in the US in reducing our need for imported oil.  Fracking was gaining much momentum,  and in 10 years or so we could be self-sufficient.  Europe is only in the beginning stages of implementing fracking and perhaps eventually could be another huge supply of new sources of oil. 

If OPEC had curtailed production to keep prices high, the fracking and conventional drilling would have continued and produced more supply.  That in turn would drive oil prices down, and in a few years the oil price would be as low as it is today, and OPEC then would have a smaller share of the market (and less revenue than today).

Fracking is expensive, and if the price of oil drops, fracking will not be fully implemented, and Saudi keeps it share of the market.   

How low can oil prices drop?  Fracking costs about $60 to produce a barrel of oil.  So the Saudis need to oversupply the market to get the prices to $50-55/bbl.   I doubt it would go lower than that.  Also, I do not expect dramatic increases for a long time.   

Although the $60/bbl price is hurting the Russian economy, Russia too will benefit over the long term as it is in the same boat as the Saudis.  Russians have the stamina to weather a storm, i. e. a recession.      Also, the conflict in eastern Ukraine surely has delayed fracking of the shale there.   IMO a drop in the price of oil is unwelcome yet will not deter Russia Putin.




 


I do not trade oil futures. I consider them a zero sum game, and people much smarter than me would eat my lunch.  I am not a day trader either  as I do not stay glued to my computer screen. 

Shorting is a possibility.  But most of the decline has taken place.  For example, SDRL (a $15 Billion company who drills in the North Sea) was $40 in the summer and is now $13.  Airlines OTOH have jumped, yet there may still be room upwards in the least hedged companies.  They are volatile, and not being a stock jockey I avoid them.

Good luck.  I hope you catch a wave.

Thanks, Gator.

I am neither a day trader or someone who sells short.  But other opportunities present themselves.  My opinions on oil futures mirror your own.  I believe fracking will probably keep the prices down for the next three years, as more and more fields come online.  I also believe that Obama will veto the Keystone Pipeline (yielding some of the purple states to the Republicans in the next cycle).

Investments, for me, are specific investments, not industry investments.  More along the lines of small business activities.  My Russian investments centered around a single individual and his (proven) ability to produce.  A low price per barrel will result in some very sexy and similar (but non-Russian) offerings.

Thanks again, for your response.  I value your business acumen.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 04, 2014, 11:16:05 AM
It seems even the hookers in Russia are forced to up their prices  due to the collapsing Rouble...

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-30311546

excerpt
Russian social media commentators are having a field day over the news, with some getting in digs at the authorities. "Putin - learn about the economy from the Murmansk prostitutes", tweets Andrei Negotov. Others, including Alexander Sitnikov on the NTV website, think the prostitutes should show some patriotism and "raise their rates for foreigners, in reply to sanctions".

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on December 04, 2014, 03:14:25 PM
I don't like seeing the Russian economy weaken, because that hurts all of their citizens, except for the rich. All of the pain comes from Putin's dumb decision to fuel the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine. Fear and hatred do not help Ukrainians or Russians....  And I'm sick of Putin blaming the USA. Ukrainians are the ones who choose Poroshenko and movement towards the EU, democracy, etc. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 04, 2014, 05:39:25 PM
If Nuremberg means anything, all of them must suffer until they give him up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 06, 2014, 12:28:36 AM
The total number of deaths in the Donbas Russian soldiers than 4 thousand.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/blizko-300-voyak-rf-zaginuli-za-dva-dni-shturmu-poziciy-kiborgiv-u-donecku-pravozahisniki-395225.html

During the first two days of December Russia army suffered serious losses in the Donbas - over the past day during the  attacks on the Donetsk airport killed about 300 Russian soldiers. This is reported by human rights organizations of "load-200 from Ukraine to Russia." Human rights activist Elena Vasileva in his blog published statistics on the losses of the Russian army in recent days. During the last day in the battle for the Donetsk airport killing 299 Russian soldiers have 190 injured, 96 of whom are seriously injured. See also: "Soldiers' Mothers of Russia" was named the number of dead Russian soldier fighting in the Donbas "The total loss of military units involved in collisions, part of the 16th Brigade Special Purpose GRU General Staff of the Russian Federation, parts 200th Brigade Special Purpose PVO (Rostov), ​​Battalion and tank company of the 4th Guards Kantemirovskoyi separate tank brigade, battalion, 22nd separate brigade of GRU of the General Staff of the Russian Federation, assault mouths 106th Guards Airborne Division. Killed - 299 were wounded - 190 (96 of them seriously) "- leads Vasiliev statistics for loss of yesterday. Yesterday Debaltseve and Russian soldiers died on the 32nd Infantry Brigade TSVO (place of dislocation - Novosibirsk region, Shilov). Human rights activists say the two killed and 11 wounded soldiers. During the first of December in the area Avdeevki the Donetsk region, where units were concentrated 36-th separate motorized rifle brigade and battalion consolidated subdivisions 37th separate motorized rifle brigade (both of Buryatia) killed 16 military RF, injured 22 more. Gorlovka Donetsk region soldiers 67th anti-air defense artillery brigade were covered by fire fighters in response to the Armed Forces. Russians were killed 22, wounded 20 more. In the battles of Mykolaivka was killed by a Russian soldier of the 288 th Artillery Brigade Western District. Another six Russians were injured. In addition, according to human rights activists on 30 November in the battle for the airport in Donetsk killed about 200 Russian soldiers. Overall, the fighting in the Donbas 4672 Russian soldiers were killed, wounded 970. Another 2560 people listed as missing, according to human rights activists. As previously reported, Cyborg "Marshall" spoke about the huge losses of the Russian army in Donbas.   
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/blizko-300-voyak-rf-zaginuli-za-dva-dni-shturmu-poziciy-kiborgiv-u-donecku-pravozahisniki-395225.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 06, 2014, 07:31:52 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-bans-black-player-reacting-racism-131414481.html

And yet THE MIDGET is labelling the Kiev government as Nazi fascists.
Maybe he should have sorted out his own backyard first before criticizing others...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 07, 2014, 10:35:41 PM
Fun fun and more fun!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 08, 2014, 08:01:26 AM
This hasn't hit the mainline media just a couple of fringe websites reporting it so I really hope it's accurate and not more wackadoodle conspiracy stuff from websites like the Center for Research on Globalization.

Anyways, it looks as though the U.S. House of Representatives has taken the first step towards assisting Ukraine with lethal defensive weaponry

Resolution 758 passed in the house 4 Dec 14...

"...(10)calls on the President to provide the Government of Ukraine with lethal and non-lethal defense articles, services, and training required to effectively defend its territory and sovereignty;...

More excerpts from the resolution...

..."H. RES. 758

In the House of Representatives, U. S.,

December 4, 2014

RESOLUTION

Whereas the Russian Federation has subjected Ukraine to a campaign of political, economic, and military aggression for the purpose of establishing its domination over the country and progressively erasing its independence;

Whereas the Russian Federation’s invasion of, and military operations on, Ukrainian territory represent gross violations of Ukraine's sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity and a violation of international law, including the Russian Federation's obligations under the United Nations Charter;...

...The document in it's entirety here...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hres758/text

So, my understanding of the US system is this bill is now forwarded to the Senate for a vote. If approved and not vetoed by the President it could be the start of real assistance to Ukraine (and believe me the US could probably sit back and watch because once ok'd by the US that would open the flood gates for other NATO countries to follow suit).

So, my questions are is 758 real and if so, what are the chances it'll be enacted (also, why isn't this headline news)?

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 08, 2014, 08:25:31 AM
Brass, slim and none is the answer.


Maybe it will be re-introduced in the next Congress.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chicagoguy on December 08, 2014, 08:37:01 AM
Aren't we already supplying money, guns and soldiers ?  At least that is what my Russian wife keeps seeing on Russian TV.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 08, 2014, 08:38:06 AM
No, no, and no.


I hope your wife is not believing that disinformation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 08, 2014, 08:43:20 AM
Aren't we already supplying money, guns and soldiers ?  At least that is what my Russian wife keeps seeing on Russian TV.


I know Chicago is close to Canada, eh? But that shouldn't change the facts.


Nothing from the US.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 08, 2014, 03:48:48 PM

I know Chicago is close to Canada, eh? But that shouldn't change the facts.


Nothing from the US.

We're getting there...

Canada to send military personnel to help train Ukrainian forces

..."OTTAWA — The Conservative government announced Monday it will provide more help for Ukraine's beleaguered military, including sending Canadian soldiers to train Ukrainian troops as they continue to battle Russian-backed rebels.

At a news conference in Kiev on Monday, Defence Minister Rob Nicholson said the stepped-up aid is intended to provide "capacity building" for the Ukrainian military.

Canada will provide military and medical training to help Ukrainian forces protect the country against Russian aggression.

Nicholson said the help will include training from military police who arrived in Ukraine on Monday."...

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/12/08/canada-signs-deal-to-help-ukraine-strengthen-security-against-russia

...About bloody time Mr. Harper.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 09, 2014, 05:27:53 AM



Nothing from the US.

Nothing from Obama
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 10, 2014, 12:04:00 AM
WAR IN UKRAINE - ATO
today at 11:28 am
Putin began to realize that Russia is facing disintegration In order to prevent any means disintegration of the country, the Kremlin needs a new strategy. Hence the attempts to soften rhetoric and calls for continuing negotiations with the militants Putin's recent meeting with French President Hollande # 'om and followed her statement - a sign that Russia is beginning to look for a way out of the situation, which has driven itself to its aggressive foreign policy. In the the format of the meeting, which was unplanned and took place at the airport, nothing out of the ordinary is not. Meetings at the highest level can occur in airports, hotel lobbies, while walking in the woods, because diplomacy has many different forms. The key task - to provide an opportunity for dialogue. Given the importance of the issues discussed French and Russian presidents, the format - the latter, which should be surprised. As for the essence of the meeting, it seems to me that before Putin is now finally starting to reach the trap into which he had made ​​himself and his Russian politics. No wonder economists who are aware of things, reduced survival time in Russia if Western sanctions, the collapse of oil prices and other energy will continue, from five to three years. I think # Putin already understands that continue to stick to the line more aggressive means to lead the movement on the collapse of the Russian Federation # . To any means to prevent such collapse, the Kremlin needs a new strategy. In recent days, we can observe a change in the rhetoric of the Russians. Does it pull for a any real changes - this is still a rhetorical question that, in addition, we know that it is impossible to believe the Russian statement. Yet some hints on what the situation is beginning to change, emerged. At the same time it should be understood that the Russian side will somehow try to "stretch" the decision of the situation in the Donbass, which will bring maximum benefit to it. Will this solution is beneficial to us - then the answer is obvious. Of course, no. What really stands behind the Russian statements and hints, it will become clear next few days. The key problem is that Russia # , even declaring a willingness to negotiate, formulate their conditions so that any talk melts meaningless. Therefore, to believe in any practical results the next meeting in Minsk difficult for me - not least thanks to the experience of working with Russian negotiators. And in miracles, I do not believe, so that the most likely option - in the coming weeks, we expect several contacts with representatives of the Russian Federation, which radically influence the situation will not have any. The reason for this uncertainty - that sanctions against Russia has not yet given the maximum effect. In the Russian Federation already understand that the problems are coming. But it is not yet too painful. That's when the pain will be for real, then there will be real steps to resolve the conflict. In the meantime, Russia will only try to bargain for the most favorable conditions. As long as the sanctions remain in effect, and the Russian Federation is aware of the scale, we, as well as the West, we need to actively put pressure on Russia. So that we then do not say "you guys need from us sanctions, while they themselves are trading with the aggressor, buy his goods, flying his plane." Making the retreat of the Russian Federation and at the same time to save her trade will not work. Sooner or later have to decide what is priority for us - trade or national security.
Vladimir Ogryzko # Ukrainian diplomat




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on December 10, 2014, 01:23:43 AM
I hope Putin does soften his stand on Ukraine. That will benefit everyone, including Russian soldiers. However, there is an element that is out of control- the separatists' military leaders, people like Girkin. And I wouldn't be surprised if there is military funding and promotion from the Yanukovych camp. I'm skeptical about Minsk talks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 10, 2014, 01:36:11 AM
PG  --without Russian complicity and support of  Russian military this would have been over back in July when the Ukrainian military were in the process of cutting them off from Russia--and resupply .
It is only the resources of the Russian military and the "humanity" resupply of them ,plus the Russian  military resources of equipment and men themselves that keeps this war going in the east.
Hard to read anything into what is said and done at this stage--last night they withdrew from Kherson region( yes-that was another invading penetration of Ukrainian territory) on the Crimean border -what it means-who knows?

http://tsn.ua/politika/rosiya-povernula-ukrayini-chastinu-zahoplenih-zemel-396545.html
Russian troops left the Kherson region. Ukraine regained part of its territory through negotiations. Russian military weapons and no shots left the Kherson region , which seized during the occupation of the Crimea. This is stated in the plot TSN.19.30 . This spring, together with the Crimea invaders seized the territory of the village also Strilkove and the peninsula Chongar in Genichesk district, Kherson region, and even in Hell Chaplinka peninsula. Now Russians are leaving their positions, and our guards reinforced the geographical limits of the continental Ukraine. Chairman of the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine Viktor Nazarenko said that everything was solved through negotiations at the national level. They were long and difficult, but no concessions from the Ukrainian side was not.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/rosiya-povernula-ukrayini-chastinu-zahoplenih-zemel-396545.html

In my post  #761 above--you can read an attempt to analyse situation-so many variables.

My view-- nothing Putin says should ever be believed  or trusted !!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 03:46:05 AM
I hope that the situation will be resolved. Don't know how
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 10, 2014, 04:29:43 AM
I hope that the situation will be resolved. Don't know how

Huilo dying would be a good start... :devilish:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 04:50:33 AM
I hope that the situation will be resolved. Don't know how

Simple! Russians go back to  Russia and pay for all the damages as well as returning control of Krim to Ukraine.

  Until then I smile every time I hear about bad news about the fall of the Russian economy.( think of 80-90 rubles to the dollar by spring)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 04:52:44 AM
Huilo dying would be a good start... :devilish:
So you openly wish death to the President of Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 04:55:40 AM
You sure enjoy trying to put words into other peoples mouths. A heart attack, stroke or plane crash will work just fine also.  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 10, 2014, 05:21:26 AM
A heart attack, stroke or plane crash will work just fine also.  :clapping:

Considering all the carnage he has caused, huilo does not deserve a quick death.
Incurable cancer, dementia or a large tumour on that shiny forehead of his will do just fine.

 :thumbsup:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 05:55:34 AM
You sure enjoy trying to put words into other peoples mouths. A heart attack, stroke or plane crash will work just fine also.  :clapping:
So you are openly wishing death to Putin
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 06:00:48 AM
You sure enjoy trying to put words into other peoples mouths. A heart attack, stroke or plane crash will work just fine also.  :clapping:
Plane crash was attempted in July.
I hope you were not involved
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 06:14:35 AM
So you are openly wishing death to Putin

 I am openly wishing for him to stay inn Huilostan and leave Ukraine intact and able to seek it's own destiny.

But since that's not happening his demise would be a good second choice.  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 10, 2014, 07:59:06 AM
Plane crash was attempted in July.
I hope you were not involved

Oh yes, that crash.

AkMike was not involved unless he is Israeli.  I read  that the current evidence proves a drone was sent from Israel's secret base in Chernobyl to intercept Putin's plane but mistakenly hit Malaysian Airlines Flight 17. 

I recall reading this in Pravda, or maybe it was перекати-поле.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 08:06:32 AM
Nope I have a rock solid alibi!

I was with my lawyer and 2 judges as well as several Senators all month. :rolleyes:


I do wonder where she manages to come up with this kind of malarkey though. Lack of Prozac or lithium possibly?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 10, 2014, 08:07:06 AM
Plane crash was attempted in July.
I hope you were not involved

What? When did that happen?
Nothing like that was being reported on mainstream media...
You would think an event that significant will at least attract some media coverage, for example like the Malaysian plane that was actually shot down by Russian backed terrorists scum.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 09:24:32 AM
I am openly wishing for him to stay inn Russia and leave Ukraine intact and able to seek it's own destiny.

But since that's not happening his demise would be a good second choice.  :clapping:
I called Putin and checked on him- he is in Russia. 8)
(http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5134c5b46bb3f7431f00001c-1200/a-16-year-veteran-of-the-kgb-putin-knows-his-way-around-a-gun-after-his-retirement-in-1991-he-rapidly-rose-through-russian-politics-to-become-top-dog-in-the-worlds-largest-nation.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 09:25:11 AM
What? When did that happen?
Nothing like that was being reported on mainstream media...
You would think an event that significant will at least attract some media coverage, for example like the Malaysian plane that was actually shot down by Russian backed terrorists scum.
It WAS reported.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 10, 2014, 09:37:52 AM
It WAS reported.


Where? RT?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 10:06:45 AM
Cash-Strapped Russia Won't Support Ukrainian Separatist Regions Of Donetsk And Luhansk

As a new ceasefire begins Tuesday between Ukraine and pro-Russia separatists in the east of the country, the Kremlin plunged the political fate of the contested regions of Donetsk and Luhansk into uncertainty. According to the left-leaning Russian daily newspaper Novaya Gazeta, which cited officials within the Kremlin, sources within the cabinet of ministers and pro-Russian insurgents, Russia has abandoned the idea of either war-torn region becoming an independent state, instead preferring that both remain autonomous regions within Ukraine.

While the reason for this change of policy within the Kremlin was not revealed in the report, it is believed that independence would push both regions to rely on Russia financially as they recover from war and begin operating as independent states, something that a financially troubled Russia is keen to avoid.

“Russia clearly doesn’t want to absorb these states into Russia itself,” said Sarah Lain, research fellow with expertise on Russia and the former USSR at the London-based Royal United Services Institute, an independent think tank on defense and security. “And I do imagine that independence would mean that it adds more pressure on Russia because those regions will be asking to be closer to Russia than Kiev."

It was thought that both regions in Eastern Ukraine would be taken under Russian control in the same way Crimea was, after a vote in September, but Russia has been subjected to crippling financial sanctions from the European Union and the U.S. since entering Crimea in February of this year and annexing it just one month later. On top of falling oil prices, that is hurting Russia financially.

This leaves both Luhansk and Donetsk in a quandary. The population that voted in both those regions chose overwhelmingly to become independent states and move away from Kiev's rule -- hoping, Lain said, that Russia would prop them up financially. In response to the move, not recognized internationally, Ukraine Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk cut off payments to the two regions totaling $2.6 billion, largely in public-sector salaries and pensions, leaving the regions and the people living there largely adrift from central government.

That quandary extends to Moscow, too. “Russia can’t afford to take on that responsibility, especially given the problems with its economy,” said Lain. “However, Russia also can’t afford to step back either, because Putin’s popularity in Russia rides on him protecting the ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.”

But finances are not the only reason Putin would rather see Donetsk and Luhansk remain as autonomous regions. Putin may also have geopolitical reasons to keep both regions locked in "frozen conflicts," whose persistence would make it almost impossible for Ukraine to join the EU and even NATO and leave Russia's sphere of influence in favor of Western affiliation. 

“They [Russia] are attempting to create what’s known as a ‘frozen conflict,’ the same condition as was seen in the [2008] conflict with Georgia, which resulted in the creation of the semi-autonomous states of South Ossetia and Abkhazia,” said Emma Ashford, a Russia analyst with the Cato Institute in Washington.

The key for Russia, Lain said, is to push separatists to retain their autonomy, which “keeps the tie to the Kiev government, meaning it kind of stays Kiev’s problem."

http://www.ibtimes.com/cash-strapped-russia-wont-support-ukrainian-separatist-regions-donetsk-luhansk-1745350
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 10:23:15 AM
Sanctions hurt Vlad! :clapping:


Russia's Kalashnikov gun-maker struggles with Western ban

It is probably the best-known weapon in the world, brandished by everyone from Che Guevara to Osama bin Laden. But the Kalashnikov assault rifle has failed to produce a profit for its makers for years.

Things were just starting to improve when the firm was hit by Western sanctions.

With Russian military stores full of the famously durable Kalashnikovs, and dwindling orders from abroad, the company had turned its attention to civilian firearms markets.

In January it finally secured a foothold in the biggest of them, sealing a lucrative deal to supply up to 200,000 rifles a year in the US.

But in July, Kalashnikov was placed on a US list of eight arms manufacturers sanctioned for Russia's role in fomenting the crisis in Ukraine. The deal was halted with under half the initial order delivered. It was added to an EU list in September.

View of Izhevsk, home of Kalashnikov factory Most of the weapons produced at the factory in Izhevsk are civilian firearms
"Of course I was upset, because I didn't understand why we'd been sanctioned," Kalashnikov director Alexei Krivoruchko told the BBC, arguing that the firm was no longer wholly state-owned since he and another Russian businessman had invested in a 49% stake.

Also, he points out, it primarily produces firearms for the civilian market.

"The US was a key market for us, one that we planned to develop," Mr Krivoruchko says. "It's a big loss, there's no point saying otherwise."

There are now some 200 models of Kalashnikov, still produced at the original factory in Izhevsk, two hours' flight east of Moscow.

In Soviet times, the sprawling plant manufactured around 600,000 rifles a year for the military. Last year it turned out one tenth of that number and 80% were civilian firearms.

With a new crisis management team on board, the firm is now on a major efficiency drive. Production has already been streamlined, putting the plant on course to double its output this year.

The next goal is to upgrade the ancient, chunky equipment that fills the shop floor: one machine was discovered from the 19th Century.

But sanctions are complicating life there, too, as Kalashnikov now has to seek suppliers in Asia, instead of Europe.

Kalashnikov gun production - assembled guns The company is keeping quiet about who will buy the weapons originally produced for the American market
"I remember all sorts of times here, including the 1990s, when wages weren't paid, or only in part. And when the firm declared bankruptcy," Nikolai Svintsov reminisces as he assembles a hunting rifle on an old, rutted wooden worktop.

As part of its comeback effort, the weapons firm was recently re-launched as the oddly-named Kalashnikov Concern, with a red-carpet event in Moscow complete with high-heeled hostesses handing out replicas of the rifle's distinctive, banana-shaped magazine.

A glitzy video promoted the AK as a "weapon of peace", wielded historically by liberation movements in their "search for justice" and, more recently, by Russia's own anti-terrorist Special Forces.

The fact that the Kalashnikov is currently used by both sides fighting in eastern Ukraine - the conflict that led to sanctions - was glossed over.

Kalashnikov gun production worker Nikolai Production worker Nikolai Svintsov remembers worse times in the 1990s when wages were not paid
"We're trying to hear customers' needs," explains another of the young team of managers, Dmitry Tarasov, of his firm's attempts to win a share of the civilian firearms market.

"Of course we can compete," he insists. "The Kalashnikov is the most famous assault gun."

But first the weapon has to compete against itself.

In Cold War times, Moscow allowed its allies to produce Kalashnikovs locally and some continued to do that long after the Iron Curtain fell. Those copies ate deeply into post-Soviet profits in Izhevsk.

As the right to any legal challenge has long since passed, the firm is preparing to launch a fully updated rifle in the hope that Kalashnikov users will upgrade too. A civilian version will follow.

The AK-12, as it is known, is one of two assault rifles currently being tested by the Russian military as part of President Vladimir Putin's military modernisation programme.

Final word on which firm gets the big state order is due early next year - a decision the Kalashnikov boss calls "extremely important".

Kalashnikov test firing The company is keen for the sanctions imposed by the West on Russia to end soon
But he also insists his firm is coping under sanctions.

Senior managers say they have found new buyers for the extra rifles originally intended for the US. Mr Krivoruchko admits it was not easy but will not be drawn on details.

While US weapons enthusiasts will probably manage without a Kalashnikov, for the company itself, hitting the lucrative American market was a clear route to recovery.

If the bosses are lobbying Mr Putin to push for an end to sanctions, Alexei Krivoruchko is not admitting it.

"There's nothing we can do," he says. "But we hope the sanctions will be lifted soon."

He has a multi-million dollar investment riding on that.
BBC News - Russia's Kalashnikov gun-maker struggles with Western ban
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 10:31:25 AM

Where? RT?
I don't remember
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 11:14:46 AM
AKMike, besides AK, Russia has hunred thousands of "items' to sell, trust me.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 11:25:56 AM
Yeah we got a pretty good deal at 2 cents an acre for AK. :clapping:

Russia may have goods to sell but if they can't be exported and sold they are sale they are worthless.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 10, 2014, 11:28:53 AM
I called Putin and checked on him- he is in Russia. 8)
(http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5134c5b46bb3f7431f00001c-1200/a-16-year-veteran-of-the-kgb-putin-knows-his-way-around-a-gun-after-his-retirement-in-1991-he-rapidly-rose-through-russian-politics-to-become-top-dog-in-the-worlds-largest-nation.jpg)

Well, next time you talk to him advise him that while on an indoor gun range holding a fully cocked Makarov to the ceiling with the safety off is really not something someone who "knows his way around a gun" does contrary to the title of your jpg.  :rolleyes:

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
He should play that famous  game of Russian roulette with that semi auto.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 10, 2014, 11:39:15 AM
He should play that famous  game of Russian roulette with that semi auto.  :rolleyes:

LOL, I wonder how many readers will get that...

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 11:40:30 AM
 :D Time will tell!  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 10, 2014, 11:43:26 AM
Well, next time you talk to him advise him that while on an indoor gun range holding a fully cocked Makarov to the ceiling with the safety off is really not something someone who "knows his way around a gun" does contrary to the title of your jpg.  :rolleyes:

Brass

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Remember, the bear does what he wants to do when in his territory; there are no rules and he need not ask permission.   Besides the people on the floor above the range are not important.  A ricochet?  That would make a good Youtube. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 12:21:23 PM
Called Putin again, he sent me the pic
 (http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5i2XsuAbXsrZjWO-rJjmQWjxNu6OjHJZnJffMoL7C39xCLvkQ7g)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 12:25:36 PM
 (http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmgOve6Lpjjtacp3EVfjtvHWXNbyVbH0tWg_sgtLV0zYPy6Pok)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 10, 2014, 02:27:39 PM
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmgOve6Lpjjtacp3EVfjtvHWXNbyVbH0tWg_sgtLV0zYPy6Pok)


Bear from North America.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 10, 2014, 02:34:54 PM
Regarding the obvious of Putin asking Ukraine to take back the two regions, well, Poroshenko should say Not so fast.


The main reason for Huilo to do this is to put further stress on the Ukrainian economy. Poroshenko should be asking these regions to


1) send the Russians back to Russia
2) no amnesty to the criminals
3) kiss his ass


and then say Deal or no Deal.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 10, 2014, 02:37:09 PM
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmgOve6Lpjjtacp3EVfjtvHWXNbyVbH0tWg_sgtLV0zYPy6Pok)



Bear from North America.


(http://p2.la-img.com/1066/43515/19108959_1_l.jpg)

Bear from Russia. :P

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 11, 2014, 02:09:55 AM
Both are cute
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 02:16:03 AM
Cuter would be huilo's severed head stuck on a pike...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 11, 2014, 03:56:24 AM
Terrorists suspect SBU( Ukrainian) “assassination squad” responsible for recent deaths.
 
Members of the  so-called “people’s militias” in Horlivka suspect that an “assassination squad” of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) is active in their city, military analyst Dmytro Tymchuk, head of the Information Resistance group, reports on Facebook Monday, December 8.

There are persistent rumors among former members of the militias organized by the terrorist leader Igor Bezler (Bes) that an SBU “assassination squad” is active in their city, Tymchuk writes.

According to Tymchuk, the militants believe the SBU got a hold of a database of the Horlivka militias and that Ukrainian security service operatives placed in the occupied territories are methodically seizing or liquidating “Bezler’s fighters” who have remained in the city and who have now been incorporated into the “Army of Novorossiya.”

“During the past week, three former commanders of the Bezler gang units have been found dead with obvious signs of a violent death. Two others have vanished without a trace,” Tymchuk reports.

Additionally, Tymchuk reports that in a number of localities in the Donbas (Torez, Rovenky, Snizhne, Krasnyi Luch) terrorists are continuing to carry out  forcible “mobilization activities” for the so-called “Army of Novorossiya” in businesses and mines of the region. The total number of the local residents “mobilized” in this fashion in recent days stands at fewer than 30, he writes.

As previously reported, Igor Bezler (Bes) was one of the leaders of the Donetsk separatists, the commander of the so-called “people’s militia” in Horlivka and a close associate of the Russian ultra-nationalist commander Igor Girkin (Strelkov). There were unconfirmed rumors recently that Bezler had been eliminated by Russian security services for refusing to cooperate with Russian military authorities in the Donbas.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 11, 2014, 04:08:34 AM
Russia's South Stream Alternative Rests on Shaky Ground
By Alexander Panin
The St. Petersburg Times
Published: December 8, 2014
Ukraine's role as a natural gas transit zone between Russia and the European Union will be "nullified" once a newly announced pipeline through Turkey to Greece is completed, Gazprom head Alexei Miller said Saturday.

But Miller's enthusiasm about building a Turkish gas line, meant to take the place of the recently scrapped $40 billion South Stream pipeline through Bulgaria, may be misplaced. The likely high price tag of the project, Turkey's strong negotiating position and unresolved political concerns may cost Russia dearly.

Neither Miller nor Russia's President Vladimir Putin has yet specified what route the new pipeline will take from Russia to Turkey or which investors in Turkey are ready to contribute funding. Nor have they mentioned who would have to build or expand the existing pipeline network from Turkey to Greece.

During Rossia-1's program "The News on Sunday," Miller stated that some 4 billion euros ($5 billion) of infrastructure already built for the scrapped South Stream project can be repurposed for transit to Turkey.

Given Gazprom's current projects, however, including a massive pipeline being built to provide gas to China, "Gazprom can hardly afford to finance a new pipeline," said Mikhail Korchemkin, head of East European Gas Analysis, a U.S.-based energy consultancy.

And even assuming that the pipelines are built to Turkey, it is unclear who will own and operate them and on what terms, said Mikhail Krutikhin, a partner and analyst at the Russia-based RusEnergy consultancy.

While transiting Russian gas, Ukraine abides by an agreement signed between Ukraine's state-owned Naftogaz and Gazprom, which gives Gazprom control of its gas while in Ukraine.
Turkey, though, will likely want to re-export gas bought at its border as its own, judging by its negotiations for gas supplies from Iran and Azerbaijan, Krutikhin said. Given its power as one of Russia's only points of contact with its EU consumers, Turkey would then be able to demand even lower prices for gas supplies.

Russia has already offered a 6 percent discount on gas supplies to Turkey starting from next year and possibly could offer even lower prices, "depending on how our relations develop," Putin said last week.

Even if the pipeline is built, it will not necessarily be able to avoid the political and legal problems that plagued South Stream, cited by Russia as a prime factor in leading to the project's cancellation.

"Gazprom has an illusion that it can fool Europe by using Turkey as a transit hub and gain access this way to markets in Southern Europe," said Sergei Pikin, director of Moscow-based think tank the Energy Development Fund.

Greece, though, is a member of the European Union and complies with the same rules that stalled the development of South Stream in the first place, he said.

And while Putin and Miller sounded as if their plans for Turkey were a done deal, Turkish officials were far more careful with their statements.

Turkish Energy Minister Taner Yildiz said Tuesday that Russian and Turkish agencies were working toward a final deal on the new pipeline. But he said it was too soon "to pronounce the final word on these matters today," The Wall Street Journal reported.

Officials in Turkey have merely signed a memorandum of understanding, which does not oblige them to anything, according to Krutikhin.

"And for this piece of paper Russia had to pay by offering a discount to future gas supplies," he said, referring to the discount Moscow has already given Ankara.
http://www.sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=2&story_id=41379
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 11, 2014, 12:04:14 PM
Russia has no choice but to "cancel" or change South Stream.
Don't you agree?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 11, 2014, 01:00:35 PM
I couldn't be happier.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 11, 2014, 01:39:59 PM
And in Ruble news...

Russian ruble hits all time low of 55-to-1 versus U.S. dollar

..."The Russian ruble continued its slow slide Thursday, falling to an all-time low against the U.S. dollar. It now costs 55 rubles to get one U.S. dollar.

Against the euro, the rube was threatening to break through the 70 rubles to one euro threshold for the first time ever, too. Russia's central bank tried to stem the tide in the afternoon by hiking its benchmark interest rate by another quarter of a point.

But it wasn't enough, as the ruble sell-off continued. Russian stocks were also lower, with the benchmark RTS stock index losing almost four per cent."...

This statement is particularly relevant...

..."The ruble has lost about 42 per cent of its value since January, battered by Western sanctions imposed over the conflict in eastern Ukraine and the drop in the price of oil, the backbone of the Russian economy.'...

I believe when/if the ruble hits the 50% loss of value mark against the US dollar there will be a reaction from the Russians towards the Kremlin. It's a psychological barrier Putin can't afford to cross, IMO.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/russian-ruble-hits-all-time-low-of-55-to-1-versus-u-s-dollar-1.2870009
Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chicagoguy on December 11, 2014, 03:38:27 PM
I think Putin will soon take down all those lighted signs in Moscow that are constantly reminding all passerby's what is happening to the Ruble compared to the Dollar and the Euro  ;D

Just joking - I hope.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 11, 2014, 03:55:17 PM
New Republican Congress to push Obama for more weaponry and other aid to Ukraine:


excerpt
"Two bills that would provide Ukraine with defensive but lethal weapons are likely to be taken up by the new Republican Senate majority, despite the president’s wishes.

The first of these bills, the Ukraine Security Assistance Act of 2014, would help Ukraine “neutralize the military-support advantage that separatist rebels are using to target civilian and military aircraft in in eastern Ukraine” and would authorize President Obama to “provide adequate and necessary assistance to protect Ukrainian democracy and sovereignty.”

The second, the Ukraine Freedom Support Act of 2014, calls for military and security assistance to Ukraine, designates it as a “major non-NATO ally” (MNNA), and imposes further sanctions on the Russian Federation. MNNA is a designation given by the United States government to close allies (including Australia, Egypt, Israel, Japan, and South Korea) who have strategic working relationships with U.S. armed forces but are not members of NATO. While the MNNA status does not automatically establish a mutual defense pact with the United States, it does confer a variety of military and financial advantages that otherwise are not obtainable by non-NATO countries.

Moreover, codifying U.S. sanctions against Russia into legislation would make it far more difficult to end them than is currently the case, thereby immunizing the sanctions against actions by the White House.

It is unclear whether Obama will veto either bill should they pass. The White House’s rationale that arming Kiev would provoke Moscow grows ever weaker, as Russia has stepped up its military support of the eastern breakaway republics in recent days. An Obama veto would also put him at odds with powerful congressional leaders in both parties, now emboldened by the elections to take a tougher line on an issue that appears secondary to the rest of the president’s agenda."


http://imrussia.org/en/analysis/world/2085-republican-congress-to-push-harder-russia-line
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 04:15:18 PM
Russia has no choice but to "cancel" or change South Stream.
Don't you agree?

Forced capitulation?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 05:52:43 PM
According to good old YAHOO NEWS  ;)  again it appears that Russia is aligning with a non-western nation...this time it is India.  There remains a market for Russian resources, despite the western sanctions. 


[size=78%]http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-just-took-another-sharp-203400974.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-just-took-another-sharp-203400974.html)[/size]


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 05:57:09 PM
I think Putin will soon take down all those lighted signs in Moscow that are constantly reminding all passerby's what is happening to the Ruble compared to the Dollar and the Euro  ;D


Pass a law prohibiting the money exchange shops from displaying their LED rates signs on the street.
Require the state TV channels to churn out fake news of how the Rouble has raised back to 40 to the dollar.

Yep, there may just be a chance the regime can get the sheep population to swallow that...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 05:59:56 PM
  There remains a market for Russian resources, despite the western sanctions. 


Of course there is, at rock bottom prices...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 06:10:00 PM
Of course there is, at rock bottom prices...


I would think that the price they are receiving is lower than what they were getting, but it still is money.  It appears the two nations are working on nuclear power together and a few other projects.  Perhaps Russian leadership feels that they have an abundance of natural resources and if they sell them for a lower price that is still better than not having money until these sanctions settle down sooner or later. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 06:27:13 PM
until these sanctions settle down sooner or later. 


Big assumption...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 06:28:44 PM
Big assumption...


I think the BIGGER assumption is to think the sanctions will last forever!


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 06:31:29 PM

I think the BIGGER assumption is to think the sanctions will last forever!


Fathertime!

Credible links about sanctions getting dropped anytime soon?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 06:39:05 PM
Credible links about sanctions getting dropped anytime soon?


Credible links about sanctions lasting forever anytime soon?


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 11, 2014, 06:45:34 PM
India does not have the capabiltiy to develop oil in the Arctic. 
Sanctions did not affect Russia's sale of gas. 
 
 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 06:48:19 PM

lasting forever anytime soon?


That phrase is contradictory and does not make sense in the English language... :-\
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 06:54:38 PM
That phrase is contradictory and does not make sense in the English language... :-\


You have given up on discussing the topic, and are now just playing word games...haha 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 11, 2014, 07:32:19 PM

You have given up on discussing the topic, and are now just playing word games...haha 


Fathertime!

Or poster Muzh is correct, you are a Russian pretending to be an American.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 07:37:10 PM
Or poster Muzh is correct, you are a Russian pretending to be an American.


yes yes, the old 'i'm actually a Russian' defense....always handy when a person has given up on discussing the issue. :rolleyes:


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 11, 2014, 07:41:00 PM

Credible links about sanctions lasting forever anytime soon?


Fathertime!

I could post a link that the sanctions not only will not end soon, but they will likely get worse.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 07:46:31 PM
I could post a link that the sanctions not only will not end soon, but they will likely get worse.
Who's stopping you?  Go ahead and post the link.  My earlier point is they will eventually end, that doesn't mean it has to be soon...as I said sooner or later.   


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 11, 2014, 07:56:28 PM
Forced capitulation?
no
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 08:50:43 PM
Do most of the money exchange shops in Russia have LED rates display signs or are they still using manual signs?

With the Rouble collapsing this rapidly, surely it is not fun having to run outside every 15 minutes in the middle of winter to adjust the rates signs!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 11, 2014, 10:03:39 PM
The league of nations expelled Russia.  Before this is all over, history will repeat itself. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 11, 2014, 10:58:12 PM
Quote of the week

 or should it be the "Quote of the weak"?  :crackwhip:

"A sizable weakening of the ruble isn't advantageous for the economy in the long term," Medvedev said in an interview with Russian television. While currency depreciation benefits the budget, it's detrimental in a "strategic sense," he said.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/medvedev-enlists-russian-companies-bid-165638063.html

 As the ruble dropped to 55.8 to the dollar a 1.5% in one day.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 12, 2014, 03:30:39 AM
I could post a link that the sanctions not only will not end soon, but they will likely get worse.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/11/us-ukraine-crisis-obama-idUSKBN0JP20L20141211
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 12, 2014, 03:32:44 AM
Do most of the money exchange shops in Russia have LED rates display signs or are they still using manual signs?

With the Rouble collapsing this rapidly, surely it is not fun having to run outside every 15 minutes in the middle of winter to adjust the rates signs!
The signs are electronic but what does it matter?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 04:00:01 AM
If they were manual, there will be some very tired cold people as the value plummets further.  :clapping:

At least the store clerks will be warm inside raising the prices on the groceries.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 12, 2014, 04:07:29 AM
If they were manual, there will be some very tired cold people as the value plummets further.  :clapping:

At least the store clerks will be warm inside raising the prices on the groceries.
Is it supposed to be funny? Should we start laughing ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 04:14:58 AM
But of course!  :crackwhip: :clapping: :clapping:

Anything bad for Russian is good for everyone else!

 Send a note to your leader to withdraw all troops and associated supplies out of Ukraine and Krym then all will begin to get better.

 Until then expect top see 80-90 rubles to the dollar soon. That'll hurt on the home front!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 12, 2014, 04:36:46 AM
Is it supposed to be funny? Should we start laughing ?

I am already laughing at how Putler keeps shooting his own feet with those silly self imposed food embargos that jacks up the price of food for his own citizens.

Does the midget have any toes left?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 04:47:06 AM
That silly Russian Bear!  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 12, 2014, 04:51:44 AM


 Send a note to your leader

I did - he says hi to you
(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/webkit-fake-url://E231A2FA-A24A-4B46-90A3-C634D614401E/imagejpeg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 12, 2014, 04:57:32 AM
Called Putin again- another hi to you
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 12, 2014, 04:58:04 AM
Maybe to add a bit of fun to RWD, we should start a guessing competition to guess on what date the Rouble will hit 65, 75, 85 etc...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 05:50:13 AM
New Years should show 70.

What a way to start the New Year! Russia broke again.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 12, 2014, 06:02:49 AM
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/12/opinion/russias-ideology-there-is-no-truth.html?_r=0&referrer=

No truth in Russia
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 12, 2014, 06:09:46 AM
New Years should show 70.

What a way to start the New Year! Russia broke again.
No, i won' t show 70 by  NY
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 07:44:16 AM
Don't bet your borsht on that..  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


edit to add. That's only 12.50 away from todays close..   I maybe too conservative and it'll hit 80 by then.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 12, 2014, 08:05:48 AM
Maybe to add a bit of fun to RWD, we should start a guessing competition to guess on what date the Rouble will hit 65, 75, 85 etc...


If they were manual, there will be some very tired cold people as the value plummets further.  :clapping:

At least the store clerks will be warm inside raising the prices on the groceries.


Careful guys, all your 'flippant' comments might get SX all twisted up, oh wait nevermind, I forgot, he is a hypocrite and approves of your comments since politically you agree!


On another note. I think the US currency is strong overall right now, for example the country where my wife is from Colombia, the US dollar just in recent weeks has moved from 1900 to 2400+ and since the beginning of the year it is even more...these are large % gains but the life hasn't changed much in a Colombia as a result.


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 08:09:23 AM
Except the costs are going up fast in Russia.

They can't afford to keep up the war and still maintain the home front. Unless they dip into the pension fund. Oh wait! Never mind they already did! No bread with the borscht.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 12, 2014, 08:59:40 AM
According to good old YAHOO NEWS  ;)  again it appears that Russia is aligning with a non-western nation...this time it is India.  There remains a market for Russian resources, despite the western sanctions. 


[size=78%]http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-just-took-another-sharp-203400974.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-just-took-another-sharp-203400974.html)[/size]


Fathertime!


Heh, comments like this reminds me of this nice article.


See if anyone notice any similarity, which I should add, is purely coincidental.   ;)


http://www.interpretermag.com/in-this-info-war-the-problem-is-not-only-russia/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 10:56:24 AM
Food price inflation. + 5.5% this week.

No potato's or beets inn the borsht either. Back to using dirt eh?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 11:00:12 AM
Let the good time roll Vlad!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 12, 2014, 11:26:41 AM
Vandals paint a war monument in Novosibirsk into the colors of Ukraine:


http://lifenews.ru/news/146832


This link shows the before:


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-soviet-union/newsweek-russias-monuments-keep-getting-graffitied-with-ukrainian-flags-374988.html




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 12, 2014, 11:49:06 AM
No, i won' t show 70 by  NY

Care to demonstrate your unshakable faith in the Rouble by converting all your US dollars into Roubles?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 12, 2014, 12:02:00 PM
An analyst on a TV business show today mistakenly said "rubble" when talking about Russian currency.  Freudian slip?
:ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 12, 2014, 12:31:32 PM
Ukraine to double their defense budget from last year.


http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kyivpost.com%2Fcontent%2Fukraine-abroad%2Fnewsweek-ukraines-military-budget-will-be-over-3-billion-in-2015-374994.html&h=bAQFrOxg8&s=1
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on December 12, 2014, 01:01:13 PM
I don't want the Russian economy to crumble, but I do want Russia to leave Ukraine alone. I'm sure there are a few Russians who are good people, who love their brothers in Ukraine. I have sympathy for them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 01:04:39 PM
Zen and the crash of the ruble... Realtime! 58.48!  :clapping: :clapping:

http://zenrus.ru/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 01:12:02 PM
I'm sure there are a few Russians who are good people, who love their brothers in Ukraine. I have sympathy for them.

Then they need to quickly become the vocal minority that changes everyone's mind to understand the truth and not RT's/Kremlin's version either.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 12, 2014, 02:38:53 PM
I don't want the Russian economy to crumble, but I do want Russia to leave Ukraine alone. I'm sure there are a few Russians who are good people, who love their brothers in Ukraine. I have sympathy for them.


What is more important to me is that OUR economy doesn't begin to crumble...this has been a terrible week for our stocks....the economy is frail....and it can take no time for it to fizzle. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 12, 2014, 03:19:50 PM

 for example the country where my wife is from Colombia,

Why are you on RWD?  :-\
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 12, 2014, 03:46:54 PM
Why are you on RWD?  :-\
Why not? The discussions are lively and much is relevant to me. 

Gee I wonder why you care?  ;D

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on December 12, 2014, 03:58:58 PM
Why are you on RWD?  :-\

Can I answer that?? This is a political forum now!!
I thought RWD stood for Russian Women Discussion .....very little if any of that now.  :(
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 12, 2014, 05:42:03 PM
War does that to a man.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JohnDearGreen on December 12, 2014, 07:21:32 PM
I thought RWD stood for Russian Women Discussion .....very little if any of that now.  :(
Guess prices have just gone up too much.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-prostitutes-hike-rates-over-slumping-ruble-media/512596.html
(http://www.themoscowtimes.com/upload/iblock/9c8/5512-60-Prostitution-Wikicommons.jpg)
http://flashnord.com/news/murmanskie-prostitutki-uvelichat-ceny-iz-za-padeniya-rublya
(http://flashnord.com/sites/default/files/styles/780x450/public/uploads/main/84692441.jpg?itok=tFotcVCt)
But drinking prices are stable.
http://flashnord.com/news/v-murmanske-nadeyutsya-chto-padenie-rublya-vyzovet-volnu-alkoturizma
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 12, 2014, 09:00:58 PM

Люди тысячами уже теряют работу, и миллионы людей ещё потеряют, в ближайшие месяцы. В том числе в банковской сфере, где вовсю уже идут увольнения.

Мне жалко нормальных, ни в чём не повинных людей.

Но мне совершенно не жалко крымнашистов, которые только лишь несколько месяцев назад, как средневековые зомби, повторяли за Путиным: "Мы всё решим, всё преодолеем, потому что мы -- вместе!"

Путин всех нас обманул, кинул и поставил на бабки. Но тем, которые бились в крымнашистском угаре -- так им и надо.

И никак по-другому всё это быть не могло.

А как вы хотели? Как ты хотел? Что ты думал, что будет, когда в XXI веке Россия напала на Украину, начала убивать украинцев, и отобрала территории? Как ты хотел? Что всё будет по-прежнему и ещё лучше? Потому что так тебе сказал Путин? Потому что так тебе сказал политический, экономический, финансовый и юридический дегенерат? Он сказал, что правда и справедливость на нашей стороне? Потому что Крым -- это важная для нас территория, исторически и стратегически? Что ты сможешь теперь туда ездить отдыхать? А раньше не мог, да? Раньше Турция с Египтом были милее?

Ну ты и получил сполна. Нет. Ещё не получил. Ещё получишь. Сейчас были только цветочки.

А, ты уже Крыма не хочешь? Уже хочешь всё взад вертать? Уже жалеешь, да? Жена недовольна, что тебя с работы выгнали, потому что не на что маленького ребёнка кормить, и она беременна вторым? А она, вместе с тобой слушая Киселева-Геббельса, про ядерный пепел для Америки, умеет строить простые причинно-следственные связи? Если ты разучился?

Нисколько не жалко тебя.

Потому что никто не имеет права быть идиотом.


http://www.facebook.com/slava.rabinovich.9?fref=nf
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 12, 2014, 10:31:21 PM
There is a riddle/joke told informally on the street:

3 things will hit 63 in 2015:

1- Mr. Putin's age (true, he will).
2- The price of oil.
3- The ruble to the dollar.

I can make no forecast, only repeat the riddle.

To be certain, the impact of reverse sanctions linked to the falling ruble and the appearance of price inflation has begun to impact life in Russia. Anyone who says differently is either just dumb, or lying. There is good reason why the government is asking the populace to endure for the sake of saving Russia from the evil West.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 12, 2014, 10:54:15 PM
Photo Guy, you are right: there are many good and decent Russians. We may disagree, but I count folk like Doll and Belvis as good and decent Russians. But there is also an incredible propaganda campaign that is dished out constantly by a media that has been gutted of independent voices and so even good and decent Russians are hearing one-sided story.

I'll give you this example:  This week there have been skirmishes as the Russian and their separatist forces have tested Ukrainian defensive lines. Yesterday morning a long column of tanks and motorized armoured vehicles left Donetsk and were headed for Mariupol. Most of the tanks and trucks were handpainted with the slogan "на Мариуполь," meaning "to Mariupol." (There is some historical significance in the slogan as the Red Army used the slogan "на Берлин" as troops pushed from the Eastern front on towards Berlin.)

I was exchanging tweets with several other journalists and a reporter for RT responded that the buildup came not from the Russian probing of Ukraine's defenses, but he tweeted that the Ukrainians are "Apparently preparing to intensify the cease-fire." He just could not come out and admit that Ukrainian forces are sitting in defensive positions, and that his comrades might be the aggressors trying to grab another Ukrainian port city.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 11:02:38 PM
this has been a terrible week for our stocks....


Funny, mine have done quite well for many months. Hardly a frail economy IMO.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 13, 2014, 12:03:33 AM
There is a riddle/joke told informally on the street:

3 things will hit 63 in 2015:

1- Mr. Putin's age (true, he will).
2- The price of oil.
3- The ruble to the dollar.

I can make no forecast, only repeat the riddle.


I hope none of that happens!
1/ I hope Putin does not make 63 !
2/I hope oil hits 45
3/ I hope the rubble hits  13 to the $USD
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 13, 2014, 12:17:11 AM
I hope none of that happens!
1/ I hope Putin does not make 63 !
2/I hope oil hits 45
3/ I hope the rubble hits  13 to the $USD

You want the 13 rubles to be worth 1 USD?  That is a confusing statement. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 13, 2014, 12:56:04 AM
Perhaps the US is finally going to provide some useful aid to Ukraine.

http://www.voanews.com/content/russia-protests-passage-of-pro-ukraine-bill-by-us-congress/2557035.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 13, 2014, 06:48:23 AM
Russia says will react if U.S. imposes new sanctions


MOSCOW  Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:00am EST

(Reuters) - Russia will take counter measures if Washington imposes new sanctions on Moscow over the Ukraine crisis, Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said on Saturday.

The U.S. Congress has readied new sanctions on Russian weapons companies and investors in the country's high-tech oil projects, but U.S. President Barack Obama has yet to sign a corresponding bill into law.

"We will not be able to leave that without an answer," Russia's Interfax news agency quoted Ryabkov as saying. He did not say what form of counter-measure Moscow might take.

Relations between Russia and the United States are at their lowest since the Cold War because of Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in March and its support for pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine.

The West says it has firm evidence that Russia has armed the rebels - an accusation that Moscow rejects - and has, together with the European Union, imposed several rounds of economic sanctions on Russian individuals and large companies.

Russia retaliated to the earlier sanctions by restricting food imports from a range of Western countries.

Russia on Friday criticized the Ukraine Freedom Support Act, which foresees further sanctions, saying Washington

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/13/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-sanctions-idUSKBN0JR06Y20141213
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 13, 2014, 09:15:03 AM
Perhaps the US is finally going to provide some useful aid to Ukraine.

http://www.voanews.com/content/russia-protests-passage-of-pro-ukraine-bill-by-us-congress/2557035.html

"If Obama signs . . . "
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 13, 2014, 09:24:05 AM
Anyone who says differently is either just dumb, or lying.

hmmm, I wonder who he could be referring to among us.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 13, 2014, 03:44:07 PM
I hope none of that happens!
1/ I hope Putin does not make 63 !
2/I hope oil hits 45
3/ I hope the rubble hits  13 to the $USD
You want the 13 rubles to be worth 1 USD?  That is a confusing statement. 

Lets try 113 Rubble to 1$USD
 I was getting on a flight and got hassled to hurry up !! I wish nothing good for Putins Russia!!
btw--oil could hit 35.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on December 13, 2014, 04:00:41 PM
Quote
I wish nothing good for Putins Russia

im not that anti the russian people or country , MR PUTIN , YES

i can only hope mr putin either reverses his actions in ukraine or is removed/resigns in the near future ,
as mendy states there are many good people who are believing his propoganda wholesale ,

sometimes it is so outragous it is amazing , but given mr vladamirs career and training , it is perfect playbook stuff he knows well

its very hard to counter that without proper balance in the media ,

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 13, 2014, 04:14:04 PM
There is a riddle/joke told informally on the street:

3 things will hit 63 in 2015:

1- Mr. Putin's age (true, he will).
2- The price of oil.
3- The ruble to the dollar.

I can make no forecast, only repeat the riddle.

To be certain, the impact of reverse sanctions linked to the falling ruble and the appearance of price inflation has begun to impact life in Russia. Anyone who says differently is either just dumb, or lying. There is good reason why the government is asking the populace to endure for the sake of saving Russia from the evil West.
[/quote
т
Тупизна Ужасная
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 13, 2014, 07:11:15 PM
Тупизна Ужасная

There is such a thing as the 'PM' function if you wish to address a comment to a particular poster.
Otherwise posting in a foreign language is just plain inconsiderate to other forum readers whom 95% are English speakers only.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chicagoguy on December 13, 2014, 07:51:59 PM
There have been people posting some Russian on here for years. Since I can't read it I never paid much attention. It obviously wasn't meant for me and I did not care. Sort of like someone using a French phrase in a conversation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 13, 2014, 08:11:06 PM
I agree with JayH.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 13, 2014, 08:42:57 PM
There is such a thing as the 'PM' function if you wish to address a comment to a particular poster.
Otherwise posting in a foreign language is just plain inconsiderate to other forum readers whom 95% are English speakers only.
Leave me alone
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 13, 2014, 08:48:55 PM
There is such a thing as the 'PM' function if you wish to address a comment to a particular poster.
Otherwise posting in a foreign language is just plain inconsiderate to other forum readers whom 95% are English speakers only.
Ас  posted in foreign language-you were ok
Russian is not foreign)))))))
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 13, 2014, 09:06:41 PM
Ас  posted in foreign language-you were ok
Russian is not foreign)))))))

This quoted bit is taken straight from the RWD Terms of Service section:

Rules of Conduct

The 'official' language is of this site is English. The vast majority of our board members are literate in English, hence, posts and communications are expected to be in English.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 13, 2014, 09:09:14 PM
SU
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 13, 2014, 09:15:12 PM
I guess if the TOS doesn't apply now, then we can continue to refer to Putin as 'huilo'!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 13, 2014, 09:24:46 PM
Пошел ты- еще раз
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on December 13, 2014, 09:54:34 PM
I'm not that anti the russian people or country , MR PUTIN , YES


The vast majority of Russian people fully support Putin.

His actions are their actions.

It is a cop out to blame the leaders and hold their supporters blameless.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 13, 2014, 10:10:23 PM
im not that anti the russian people or country , MR PUTIN , YES

i can only hope mr putin either reverses his actions in ukraine or is removed/resigns in the near future ,
as mendy states there are many good people who are believing his propoganda wholesale ,

sometimes it is so outragous it is amazing , but given mr vladamirs career and training , it is perfect playbook stuff he knows well

its very hard to counter that without proper balance in the media ,

SX

I am not anti-Russian as such-- but  actions of a government that you subscribe to makes you as a citizen --responsible.If it takes starving Russians into submission to see reality-- so be it. Putin is attempting to inflict hardship on Ukraine-- he is responsible for killing many citizens.He has stolen part of Ukraine-- attempted to prevent economic p[progress without any care of the consequences of any of his actions. So where do you draw the line?I regret young Russian soldiers being killed also-- but they are there in Ukraine and killing people.
 What would the Russian people be saying if (when?) bombs start going off around Moscow--in the subway etc and paralyse Moscow-- will that make them understand their culpability?
Sure the propaganda BS is thick on the ground-- but there is no excuse or a way to rationalise obtuse stupidity and ignorance.
Here on the forum we see examples from different directions of that-- denial of the reality-- and the soft headed--"it's nothing to do with us" approach. Have any of those fools stopped to think how Ukrainians feel? Family and friend being maimed and killed-- by Russian military and Russian promoted and paid thugs-- all of Ukraine in a desperate struggle to survive and hopefully prosper in the future.
Ukrainians had the guts to stand up for what they believed and removed a Russian sponsored corrupt government--now they are showing the guts to fight for what they believe and are taking on the might of Russia both militarily and economically.
No SX-- it is not an option for Russians to simply opt out by saying nothing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 13, 2014, 10:17:26 PM
Ас  posted in foreign language-you were ok
Russian is not foreign)))))))

I usually post the bing translation.  However I agree with Doll; this forum is about Russia, Ukraine and other parts of the FSU including the former satellites of the FSU.  Russia is/was the dominant language.  How hard is it to run something through bing or google translate?  Granted those are far from perfect, but seems all should try.  Then ask your SO or Doll to help if need be.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 13, 2014, 10:19:23 PM
"If Obama signs . . . "

Exactly.  I had already seen the bills in Congress but did not post about them because they are contingent on Obama signing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 13, 2014, 10:22:51 PM
The vast majority of Russian people fully support Putin.

His actions are their actions.

It is a cop out to blame the leaders and hold their supporters blameless.

 :clapping:  Which is why the sanctions are good, because eventually Russians will wake-up and smell the coffee.  How long can they really blame the USA?  I think deep down they know why their economy has been targeted.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 13, 2014, 10:24:28 PM
This is interesting reading--I have posted only an outline summary here-- interesting reading however you translate-- a dissenting voice in Russia-- we can have no idea how many are suppressed
Putin has accelerated decay and the end of his power
   
About psyche Putin, whom he should be afraid of the future "breaking" the Russians and the reasons for the annexation of the Crimea - in an exclusive interview with TSN told a Russian journalist and writer.
Viktor Shenderovich - the legend of Russian television. In the late nineties, without him it is hard to imagine an independent Russian television. He was also a leading, and managing editor, screenwriter and television programs epoch of formation of Yeltsin's democracy.



And in 2014 he was declared a "friend of the Kiev junta" and almost equated to the "enemy of the people." He refers to it with humor so characteristic of him, adding that he is not just a "friend of the junta," and he actually "sell" this very junta. However, does not say for how much.

Looks cheerful and does not want me, fun jokes about the Kremlin perceives fabrications about Ukraine. Recalls the taste of fudge "the Russian-speaking baby" and raped in an epileptic fit 50-year-old woman.
.

About propaganda

Propaganda - is that Putin's government is doing a truly effective, it must be admitted. It really is a very high level. On Shameless, Goebbels, very efficient level. Lies must be shameless and repeated many times.

When you discover in Seattle people absolutely pumped Putin's propaganda, it makes you wonder very seriously. It works, it works, unfortunately, is much stronger than we all thought.


As of this state to go? It will be a tough out. It will be a very heavy yield. Surely be poisoning definitely be breaking. Very hard, as after all the drug. After all the euphoria comes breaking. And it will be very difficult, traumatic years for the Russian mass consciousness. And the stronger the euphoria, the more it drove into a vein laughing matter, the harder it will be then. It is already clear. Return to reality will be very difficult.

 Viktor Shenderovich
UNIAN
Ukrainian theme for Putin has always been, this topic has always rubbed - Shenderovich
About Ukraine for Putin

Ukrainian theme for Putin has always been, this topic has always rubbed. And became unbearable painful in the era of the second Maidan .

One of the pillars of imperial propaganda - a special Slavic idea of ​​the image control. Patriarchal, paternalistic democracy is not for us. Not for the Slavs. We have our own way. Special. And when Kiev - the mother of Russian cities - demonstrates that turns out to be a democracy works, it turns out that the people coming to the area, the administration may vary, it turns out that there is no control of the Slavic special protection from democracy ... Of course, Putin is very painful subject.

About the enemies of Russia

Enemies of Russia has always had a lot of. Enemies changed. Our enemies were Estonians and Georgians. Enemies changed by clicking the - from the administration. Well, there is a constant enemy - of course, America. Sometimes struggled forward London. Sometimes - corruption of Europe.

Maidan was a challenge, and he responded to it. It is therefore not surprising that Ukraine has become the main enemy. Maidan, Ukraine, free Ukraine - is the main enemy. Obviously, much more important than Georgia and Estonia.

The annexation of the Crimea

I think that, in fact, the annexation of the Crimea was improvisation. It was a reflex hyenas - that's when it became clear that Ukraine has no official power. Although Putin supported Yanukovych and did everything to keep him - well run, well-controlled and quite comfortable, and at least counteracting democratic Ukraine.

Tactics and Strategies

Putin is very bad strategy. I'm afraid no strategy. But very strong tactics. In muddy water, he very quickly and brazenly oriented. Russia itself pushed, thrown from the civilized countries. Of course, Putin accelerated decay and the end of their power. Because a year ago we had a hard stagnation, Andropov was. With a relatively stable oil economy, with absolutely controlled inner life.




About signatures in support of the annexation of the Crimea





My relationship with Putin's state is obvious - they are hostile
And then it can be normal as a person who is opposed to the glorious Russian administration or to sell as I ... "Ukrainian junta." For several months, my official position on Russian television - national traitors and scum. In 2014 I moved to the rank of a personal enemy of the state.


Who should be afraid of Putin

In general, Putin will not envy today, he cut off his escape route. This is his personal drama, but in this drama, and Russia. Because he did not leave, and it is quite clear. As soon as he moves away from the levers, they immediately begin to remove fingerprints.

Interviewed by TSN Dmitry Svyatnenko
http://ru.tsn.ua/interview/putin-uskoril-raspad-i-konec-svoey-vlasti-400955.html
http://ru.tsn.ua/interview/putin-uskoril-raspad-i-konec-svoey-vlasti-400955.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: PaulK on December 13, 2014, 11:22:50 PM
Wow, it's amazing to see "Doll's" name here, I remember you from RWG  :o
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 12:54:34 AM
Wow, it's amazing to see "Doll's" name here, I remember you from RWG  :o
Hello
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 12:58:46 AM
Shenderovich is nobody in Russia, to quote  him is waste of time
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 14, 2014, 01:02:08 AM

This should drop the ruble about 5 more.  :clapping: 70 by the New Year maybe conservative.  :crackwhip:

Oil Seen Dropping to $55 Next Week as Price Rout Deepens
By Moming Zhou and Lynn Doan  Dec 12, 2014 11:38 PM GMT+0200   64 Comments    Email  Print   

Benchmark U.S. oil prices are poised to test $55 a barrel after a six-month rout pushed crude to the lowest in five years.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-12/oil-seen-dropping-to-55-next-week-as-price-rout-deepens.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 14, 2014, 01:14:53 AM
Igor( Girkin) Gunmen admitted the possibility of contact with the Hague Tribunal

14:12 December 13, 2014
Former Defense Minister self-proclaimed "Donetsk People's Republic" Igor arrow (Girkin) believes that he and Russian President Vladimir Putin may be waiting for the International Military Tribunal in The Hague, if the Russian government will count on a peaceful settlement of the Ukrainian conflict.
According to him, during the truce Ukraine "frantic pace" restores the army, "that no" vacationers "(Prime Minister" DNR "Alexander Zakharchenko in August reported that on the side of the separatists fighting Russian troops from taking vacation - Rain) could not change the balance on the battlefield. "

"For this same winter sanctions should seriously undermine the willingness of the Russian public" to protect Russian world ", and especially - the loyalty of our officials (already extremely doubtful). A NATO, meanwhile, should finalize the opinion of its citizens for the need for direct military assistance, and even armed intervention in the conflict "over the sovereignty of Ukraine", "- says Fusiliers. By the spring, according to him, the population of "completely destroyed" Donbass will refer to Putin "hatred", the number of refugees increased by a few hundred thousand, and the army of Ukraine, which will be introduced NATO troops take "attack", "that without direct large-scale intervention of the Armed Forces will lead to a rapid defeat of five-seven times inferior in number and order demoralized militia. "

Shooters also warned of the possibility of "Moscow Maidan", which could begin on the background of "economic collapse" and "no concealed betrayal of the Russian population (Donbass)."

"If he (Putin) will continue in the same spirit as it is now, then we will have to be neighbors ... for cameras in The Hague. If we are still alive there dovezut, of course, "- said the former defense minister," DNR ".

In mid-August 2014, after the resignation of the prime minister, "DNR" Alexander Beard, Igor Strelkov was removed from his post as chief of the armed formations of the separatists. Later, in early September, Shooters gave a press conference in Moscow. At its end, he made it clear that he does not like what is happening in eastern Ukraine, where the armistice was announced. However, he expressed his willingness to abide by the decision of Russian President Vladimir Putin, whom he considers "the only legitimate commander in chief."
http://tvrain.ru/articles/igor_strelkov_dopustil_vozmozhnost_popadanija_v_gaagskij_tribunal-379367/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 14, 2014, 01:27:37 AM
Hey Doll, Don't look at it as if the ruble is falling into the abyss.
(
 Take the Kremlins view instead!  The ruble is stable! :cluebat:
 
 (and the rest of the worlds economies are surging)  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 14, 2014, 02:34:38 AM
Russians demand help with rocketing mortgages as rouble slides


Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:38am EST

By Gabriela Baczynska and Elena Fabrichnaya
MOSCOW, Dec 12 (Reuters) - About 100 Russians who have seen their mortgage payments rocket due to the plunge in the value of the rouble took to the streets of central Moscow on Friday to demand state help.

It was one of the first significant protests over the currency, which has fallen more than 40 percent against the U.S. dollar this year, pushing up the cost not only of imported goods but also of the low-interest foreign-currency mortgages that the protesters had taken out.

"We are Russian citizens. We don't want to be left without a roof over our heads. We don't want to default," said Yelena Lebedenko, an accountant whose monthly repayments have in seven years risen from 40,000 roubles to nearly 90,000.

"We want to pay loans based on the exchange rate at the time we signed the papers. The authorities, our government, must see to that."

Most of the anger appeared to be aimed at the central bank and government rather than at President Vladimir Putin, whose ratings have been sky-high since the start of the Ukraine crisis and Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in March.

Yet his popularity is based partly on the relative financial stability and prosperity of most of his 15 years in power, and the Kremlin has been wary of any signs of discontent since big protests in the winter of 2011-12 after a parliamentary election marred by accusations of fraud.

A handful of protesters who tried to picket the headquarters of the central bank on Friday were quickly asked to leave, and joined the larger rally on a snow-covered boulevard nearby.

Their banners read: "Save our families from the rouble rate" and "The central bank stole our future".

"Since I took my mortgage, my salary has remained at 70,000 roubles but my monthly payment now is 85,000 a month," said Irina, a woman in her 30s who works in an advertising firm.

"I want justice. They should not only help the banks but people like me ... I've already borrowed from all my friends. They're not taking my calls any more."

The central bank says the total value of foreign-currency mortgages stood at 129 billion roubles on Nov. 1, a small fraction of the 7 trillion in rouble mortgages.

The rouble was trading at 33 to the U.S. dollar at the start of the year, but on Friday fell past 57 (58.21 now) to the dollar.

Its plunge has largely followed a slide in the price of oil, Russia's predominant source of foreign currency, highlighting the lack of a competitive manufacturing base that Putin's critics say he has done little to address.

The central bank said on Friday it could not interfere in arrangements between commercial banks and their clients. (Writing by Gabriela Baczynska, Editing by Timothy Heritage and Kevin Liffey
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/12/russia-rouble-protest-idUSL6N0TW1Q020141212
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 14, 2014, 03:14:22 AM
Oh dear! It looks like even the Kremlin propaganda machine is unable to spin reality into positive news any more...

http://zik.ua/en/news/2014/12/14/medvedev_to_russians_tighten_belts_and_see_what_happens_549014

More important question is; is huilo going to join the rest of his citizens in eating dirt, or is he going to hide from public view while he consumes his fine gourmet meals?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 14, 2014, 04:48:17 AM
Oh dear! It looks like even the Kremlin propaganda machine is unable to spin reality into positive news any more...

Why do you think there are no positive news anymore? Please don't become like the insect on the right side of this picture (named as Two World-Views):
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/ru_ua_by/67833350/477679/477679_600.jpg)
translation: the fragrance of flowers around (left); the shit and disposal dumps around (right)

About positive news I'll list some of them for the last two monthes:

-  India and Russia signed a few days ago 20 agreements including a contract to implement two reactors of the Kudankulam nuclear power plant,  agreed on  nuclear cooperation  to build at least 10 more reactors,  and a joint investment fund of $1 billion for Indian infrastructure and hydroelectric projects. For the chopper deal in the first phase, the order could be for 384 helicopters, which could subsequently be increased to 600 to replace the ailing Cheetah/Chetak fleet used by the Indian Army and air force.
Other strategic deals covered oil supply, infrastructure and an increase in direct diamond sales to India by Russian firm Alrosa.

- The fifth summit of the Turkey-Russia High Level Cooperation Council, held in Ankara on Dec. 1, ended with the signing of agreements. The new gas route Blue Stream replacing the South Stream will be built between Turkey and Russia. That will raise Turkey’s gas dependence on Russia to about 70%, Turkey will be dependent on Russia also in nuclear energy.  The project for the $20-billion Akkuyu nuclear power plant, which will have a capacity of 4,800 megawatts and will meet 16% of Turkey’s energy demand, has been awarded to Russia’s state nuclear energy company Rosatom, meaning that Rosatom and Gazprom together will dominate 74% of Turkey’s energy market in the future.

- On Nov. 9 in Beijing, Putin and Chinese President Xi Jinping signed a preliminary agreement under which the Kremlin-run monopoly Gazprom eventually would supply nearly one-fifth of the gas China is expected to need until 2020. Under the new deal, nearly as massive as the $400 billion agreement reached earlier this year, Gazprom said it plans to supply up to 30 billion cubic meters of gas per year from western Siberia to China in the next 30 years. Under the previous deal, Beijing will import 38 billion cubic meters of gas from eastern Siberia via the Power of Siberia pipeline, where construction began on Sept. 1.

- The Russian Navy has successfully test-fired a new intercontinental ballistic missile for a second time in recent months, proving its reliability after decades of failures.

- For the second year running, Forbes named the Russian president as the world’s most powerful person.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 05:16:30 AM
Hey Doll, Don't look at it as if the ruble is falling into the abyss.
(
 Take the Kremlins view instead!  The ruble is stable! :cluebat:
 
 (and the rest of the worlds economies are surging)  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
what is this " hey" about?
I wrote already that Russia survived  4 TIMES ( TIMES) drop of rouble.
 Russia is  still there and will always be
My older son is there, we talk almost daily.
Yes, things are getting harder, but as for my concern- I can help him from here.
Hey what ?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 10:00:25 AM
Why do you think there are no positive news anymore?


Clearly there IS positive news coming out of Russia, if a person is interested.  It appears to me that the nation is finding a harbor for their resources that doesn't include the EU.  It would be very easy to find negative things to say all day about any country if that was what a person chose  to do. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 14, 2014, 11:42:42 AM
- For the second year running, Forbes named the Russian president as the world’s most powerful person.

Beavis, you might want to double check this statement! (Because it's untrue)
And even if it were it's not necessarily a good thing. Read the statement from Time about the "honor".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 14, 2014, 12:04:50 PM
I guess if the TOS doesn't apply now, then we can continue to refer to Putin as 'huilo'!

So we can call him that now?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 12:13:09 PM
I wrote already that Russia survived  4 TIMES ( TIMES) drop of rouble.
 Russia is  still there and will always be
My older son is there, we talk almost daily.
Yes, things are getting harder, but as for my concern- I can help him from here.

Every country can survive economic uncertainty and plagues.  Look at Iraq for a more extreme example.

The point is not whether a country can survive (humans are resilient), but why it should.  Almost all of the negative economic consequences Russia is facing are self imposed, and, for what?  Security?  Nope.  Future prosperity?  Nope.  Tell me what is being achieved for the overall benefit of the average Russian with all of this?

Your son is fortunate to have a mother abroad to help ease the economic burden on his family.  What about all those other sons who don't have that option?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 12:50:27 PM
Security
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 01:01:32 PM
Two questions.

1.  How was Russia's security compromised before it invaded Crimea and Donbas?

2. How has Russia's security been compromised otherwise?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 01:19:58 PM
Two questions.

1.  How was Russia's security compromised before it invaded Crimea and Donbas?

2. How has Russia's security been compromised otherwise?
I'd like to chime in here too....


From my viewpoint, had Russia EVENTUALLY lost access to Crimea it would have been a blow to their security.  In addition, more and more often if a nation conducts internal affairs in a manner that the USA determines is not in keeping with the standards it insists upon, it will impose sanctions...now had the whole of Ukraine turned towards the EU and USA, they  could have just been another country towing the line against Russia...at some point....at least this is how Russia may see it...in addition I, and many others have become convinced that the USA acts in it's own interests often at the expense of other nations and it peoples.     


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 01:23:30 PM
Two questions.


2. How has Russia's security been compromised otherwise?
I mean facing sanction.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 01:28:44 PM
I'd like to chime in here too....


From my viewpoint, had Russia EVENTUALLY lost access to Crimea it would have been a blow to their security.  In addition, more and more often if a nation conducts internal affairs in a manner that the USA determines is not in keeping with the standards it insists upon, it will impose sanctions...now had the whole of Ukraine turned towards the EU and USA, they  could have just been another country towing the line against Russia...at some point....at least this is how Russia may see it...in addition I, and many others have become convinced that the USA acts in it's own interests often at the expense of other nations and it peoples.     


Fathertime!


Russia had a lease for its Black Sea Fleet to 2042.   Moreover, as I have posted before, the Black Sea is a closed sea, as the Dardanelles are controlled neither by Russia nor Ukraine, but by Turkey so how, exactly, does it provide any form of security?


Any confrontation between the US and Russia (excluding proxies) will not involve sea or even land forces, so I reject this argument completely.


EU and US policy are not always in alignment.   Therefore, Ukraine's economic and, presumably, political movement to the EU is irrelevant vis a vis the U.S.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 01:29:14 PM
I mean facing sanction.


I am not following what you are saying.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 01:36:39 PM

I am not following what you are saying.
you asked why Russia keeps standing sanctions. I answered
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 01:39:29 PM
No, I asked how Russia's security had been compromised, such that it needed to invade its neighbour and endure economic upheaval.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 02:18:27 PM
No, I asked how Russia's security had been compromised, such that it needed to invade its neighbour and endure economic upheaval.
ok- economic security

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 02:20:48 PM
How has Russia's economic security been strengthened by all that has occurred in the past year?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 14, 2014, 02:58:58 PM
ok- economic security

Ahhhhh...So the root cause of all this is because Ukraine don't want to join huilo's silly little Euroasian Union?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on December 14, 2014, 05:16:13 PM
Quote
JAY H
No SX-- it is not an option for Russians to simply opt out by saying nothing.

JAY ,while i agree with you on many levels ,

it also needs to be recognised the mind set of many russians and the low level of belief that they can /do have any ability to have an impact on the politics of their nation , & their deep understanding of the consequences if they did wish to stand up and be counted


it almost goes against the culture of the people to publicly question the gov, , mistrust /conspiracy is the norm among people who see themselves as expendable for the state in many ways

while we may not agree with them , they know standing up for their rights or values has a huge negative impact on them , their familys etc, & thats if they believe strongly enough to do so anyway ,

its easy for us to make judgements from here , but its a brave person to do it in russia id think

im guessing , most will hunker down and stoikly wait it out whatever comes along , as that is the russian way


SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on December 14, 2014, 05:52:02 PM
It is a cop out to blame the leaders and hold their supporters blameless.

ML im unable to hate or blame the russian people quite so much as maybe others might , see my post above , mr putin on the other hand , is fair game

Quote
The vast majority of Russian people fully support Putin.

if you trust the polling as completly independent ?

Quote
His actions are their actions.


not at all , thats way to simplistic imo

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 07:15:51 PM

   Moreover, as I have posted before, the Black Sea is a closed sea, as the Dardanelles are controlled neither by Russia nor Ukraine, but by Turkey so how, exactly, does it provide any form of security?
 


This is a separate issue involving Turkey and is not relevant.





Any confrontation between the US and Russia (excluding proxies) will not involve sea or even land forces, so I reject this argument completely.

I have to chuckle if you REALLY believe the sea doesn't matter.  It does matter....if it made no difference why are nations building up their Navy?


 


EU and US policy are not always in alignment.   Therefore, Ukraine's economic and, presumably, political movement to the EU is irrelevant vis a vis the U.S.
The EU and US policy are not ALWAYS in perfect alignment, but they are on basically the same page against Russia regarding the sanctions and are often on the same side during conflicts...or when the chips are down.


Fathertime!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 07:36:23 PM

Viva Germany!<<Thousands of Germans have staged a protest rally to express their anger at the West’s warmongering policies against Russia over the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.At least 3,500 people took part in the protest, organized by the German Peace Movement, in the capital Berlin on Saturday.The demonstrators marched to the presidential Bellevue palace to condemn the West’s confrontation with Russia over the conflict in Ukraine.They expressed concern that the policies adopted by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) under the influence of the United States will lead to further escalation of tensions in Europe.The protesters also called for the dissolution of the Western military alliance, an immediate withdrawal of US nuclear weapons from Germany’s Büchel Air Base, and the closure of the US-run Ramstein Air Base in the country’s southwestern part.>>http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14 ... -policies/ (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14/390162/germans-protest-antirussia-policies/)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 07:49:34 PM

This is a separate issue involving Turkey and is not relevant.


It certainly is relevant if, per your assertion, Russia needed the Black Sea for its "protection".  It already has a more suitable location for a better sea port than Sevastopol.  However, a sea where your fleet is trapped by a NATO member is not exactly a big win, is it?

Quote
I have to chuckle if you REALLY believe the sea doesn't matter.  It does matter....if it made no difference why are nations building up their Navy?The EU and US policy are not ALWAYS in perfect alignment, but they are on basically the same page against Russia regarding the sanctions and are often on the same side during conflicts...or when the chips are down.


Had Russia not invaded a sovereign nation on European soil, and its leader not bold facedly  lied, there would be no sanctions.


Please tell me exactly how the Black Sea, which can be closed off, its ships unable to exit it, can matter militarily.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 07:51:11 PM
Viva Germany!<<Thousands of Germans have staged a protest rally to express their anger at the West’s warmongering policies against Russia over the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.At least 3,500 people took part in the protest, organized by the German Peace Movement, in the capital Berlin on Saturday.The demonstrators marched to the presidential Bellevue palace to condemn the West’s confrontation with Russia over the conflict in Ukraine.They expressed concern that the policies adopted by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) under the influence of the United States will lead to further escalation of tensions in Europe.The protesters also called for the dissolution of the Western military alliance, an immediate withdrawal of US nuclear weapons from Germany’s Büchel Air Base, and the closure of the US-run Ramstein Air Base in the country’s southwestern part.>>http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14 ... -policies/ (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14/390162/germans-protest-antirussia-policies/)


The same useful idiots who protested for unilateral disarmament by the West in the 1980's.  They were wrong then, as they are wrong now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 14, 2014, 07:56:33 PM
I read, I think yesterday, that Russian fighters had invaded Sweden's airspace (again) and almost collided with a passenger jet.    This provocation is indicative of Russia actions against almost all nations bordering it.

I'm just curious what our Russian apologists think about this.  Do you think its fictitious?  Do you think it is in response to incursions by NATO in Russia?  Why would a nation continue to be belligerent?  What would be the basis for intentionally violating the airspace of another country?  Please, enlighten us. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 07:58:46 PM

The same useful idiots who protested for unilateral disarmament by the West in the 1980's.  They were wrong then, as they are wrong now.
Wow! " Idiot"
It is your opinion and nothing else
Europe is getting tired of confrontation
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 08:00:10 PM
Hey, I'm quoting Lenin!


Yes, it is my opinion.  But history has proven me right in the first instance.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 08:00:42 PM
I read, I think yesterday, that Russian fighters had invaded Sweden's airspace (again) and almost collided with a passenger jet.    This provocation is indicative of Russia actions against almost all nations bordering it.

I'm just curious what our Russian apologists think about this.  Do you think its fictitious?  Do you think it is in response to incursions by NATO in Russia?  Why would a nation continue to be belligerent?  What would be the basis for intentionally violating the airspace of another country?  Please, enlighten us.
Link?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 08:02:13 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russian-jet-civilian-airliner-nearly-collide-sweden-says-1.2872780
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 08:04:21 PM

It certainly is relevant if, per your assertion, Russia needed the Black Sea for its "protection".  It already has a more suitable location for a better sea port than Sevastopol.  However, a sea where your fleet is trapped by a NATO member is not exactly a big win, is it?


Had Russia not invaded a sovereign nation on European soil, and its leader not bold facedly  lied, there would be no sanctions.


Please tell me exactly how the Black Sea, which can be closed off, its ships unable to exit it, can matter militarily.


and when was the black sea last closed off to Russia? would Russia accept that NOW?  Would the USA REALLY permit the Panama Canal to be closed to us?
if the black sea could be closed but never is....then that means it is open....if it is open then it serves a strategic purpose for Russia....


So why again is the navy irrelevant to warfare?


I don't think your argument that Crimea didn't matter to Russia strategically remains flawed.  Other more credible arguments can be made, but that is NOT one of them


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 14, 2014, 08:10:32 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russian-jet-civilian-airliner-nearly-collide-sweden-says-1.2872780

Doll probably won't believe the content of this link because it didn't come from the Russian propaganda ministry state media!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 08:21:44 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russian-jet-civilian-airliner-nearly-collide-sweden-says-1.2872780 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russian-jet-civilian-airliner-nearly-collide-sweden-says-1.2872780)
where is it said " invaded"? It is an international space
A Russian military jet nearly collided with a commercial passenger airplane in international airspace near southern Sweden on Friday, the Swedish authorities said, but Russia insisted on Sunday that its jet had kept at a safe distance.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 08:23:17 PM
The Seventh Fleet has been located permanently in the Mediterranean Sea since WWII.  They would de facto control what Turkey does.

The Soviets kept nuclear subs in Gibraltar for the same reason.

I read your post to my better half, who served in the Soviet military.  His response - "Anyone who believes the Black Sea has any strategic value knows nothing about the navy or naval strategy.  The Russians keep the fleet there because it's been there for 200 years.  Even when I was in the navy, everyone knew the Black Sea Fleet meant nothing.  It was, and is known, as "kaluzha" (the "Muddy Puddle" Fleet).  Even at the time I was in the navy, the technology made the Black Sea Fleet useless.  Today, it is less than that.  The Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet, which open to seas, are different."  He also said "Anyone who believes there was any military purpose for retaking Crimea knows nothing about Russia or Russian mentality.  It is about history, nothing more.  The idiot who gave Crimea to Ukraine thought the commies would rule forever." (Note, he is more ethnically Russian than Ukrainian.)


Even if we assumed your preposterous assertion has any merit, Russia already had a fleet in a better port on the Black Sea, at Novorossiysk.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 08:24:37 PM
where is it said " invaded"? It is an international space
A Russian military jet nearly collided with a commercial passenger airplane in international airspace near southern Sweden on Friday, the Swedish authorities said, but Russia insisted on Sunday that its jet had kept at a safe distance.


Well, you'll have to ask jone for the choice of his words, not me.  However, I believe he was using "invaded" as a synonym for "entering" airspace where a commercial airliner was flying, without adequate warnings.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 08:37:07 PM
It is international space
( Novorossyisk is much worse as a port than Sevastopol)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 08:42:30 PM
I read, I think yesterday, that Russian fighters had invaded Sweden's airspace (again) and almost collided with a passenger jet.    This provocation is indicative of Russia actions against almost all nations bordering it.

I'm just curious what our Russian apologists think about this.  Do you think its fictitious?  Do you think it is in response to incursions by NATO in Russia?  Why would a nation continue to be belligerent?  What would be the basis for intentionally violating the airspace of another country?  Please, enlighten us.
Read it again, nobody INVADED
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 08:44:36 PM
( Novorossyisk is much worse as a port than Sevastopol)


No, it is a much deeper port than Sevastopol.  That is why all the big ocean liners/cargo ships dock there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 08:54:28 PM
My husband's relative, founder of the fleet in Sevastopol -




(http://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/439933/98202434/stock-photo-ussr-circa-a-stamp-printed-in-ussr-shows-portrait-russian-admiral-m-p-lazarev-98202434.jpg)




That fleet was founded for sail ships.  It is still a very small port.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 14, 2014, 09:01:06 PM
Viva Germany!<<Thousands of Germans have staged a protest rally to express their anger at the West’s warmongering policies against Russia over the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.At least 3,500 people took part in the protest, organized by the German Peace Movement, in the capital Berlin on Saturday.The demonstrators marched to the presidential Bellevue palace to condemn the West’s confrontation with Russia over the conflict in Ukraine.They expressed concern that the policies adopted by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) under the influence of the United States will lead to further escalation of tensions in Europe.The protesters also called for the dissolution of the Western military alliance, an immediate withdrawal of US nuclear weapons from Germany’s Büchel Air Base, and the closure of the US-run Ramstein Air Base in the country’s southwestern part.>>http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14 ... -policies/ (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14/390162/germans-protest-antirussia-policies/)

WOW!  3500 protesters.    ;D ;D ;D ;D

Maybe a good idea though.  Pull out of NATO and the UN, let these cowards try to defend themselves without US support. After spending their own money to build a military they might have second thoughts (assuming they are not invaded and 'annexed' in the mean time)!  Same goes for much of Europe.

In today's world, a "Coalition of the willing" might be a better way to deal with conflicts.  Any organization that becomes so large that a unanimous agreement must be made to take any action becomes a rather useless pipe-dream.   Same is true when a rogue nation has veto power over the rest of the members.

The only morally acceptable resolution to the Russian/Ukraine conflict is for Russia to withdraw all military and civilian puppets from Crimea and Eastern Ukraine and fully pay for reparations.  Ukraine did not invade and annex Russia, it is Russia that invaded Ukraine as well as other territories.  All the diplomatic talks and BS does not deter a nut case that uses military force to conquer another nation.  Only military force by allied nations will stop Putin from his aggression in Europe.  Economic sanctions is a nice (peaceful) idea, but it takes so long to be effective, the damage will already be done and countless lives lost during the process.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 14, 2014, 09:03:29 PM
Read it again, nobody INVADED

Where is that brick that someone posted a while back?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 09:06:33 PM
The Seventh Fleet has been located permanently in the Mediterranean Sea since WWII.  They would de facto control what Turkey does.

The Soviets kept nuclear subs in Gibraltar for the same reason.

I read your post to my better half, who served in the Soviet military.  His response - "Anyone who believes the Black Sea has any strategic value knows nothing about the navy or naval strategy.  The Russians keep the fleet there because it's been there for 200 years.  Even when I was in the navy, everyone knew the Black Sea Fleet meant nothing.  It was, and is known, as "kaluzha" (the "Muddy Puddle" Fleet).  Even at the time I was in the navy, the technology made the Black Sea Fleet useless.  Today, it is less than that.  The Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet, which open to seas, are different."  He also said "Anyone who believes there was any military purpose for retaking Crimea knows nothing about Russia or Russian mentality.  It is about history, nothing more.  The idiot who gave Crimea to Ukraine thought the commies would rule forever." (Note, he is more ethnically Russian than Ukrainian.)


Even if we assumed your preposterous assertion has any merit, Russia already had a fleet in a better port on the Black Sea, at Novorossiysk.


Your husband is not posting here (is he?) and your characterization of his opinion, is nothing more than another opinion.  You or he did not refute the specific comments I made. 


You can argue Crimea is about history, and I'm sure that isn't entirely untrue...but  I think there is a case that it also has strategic purposes as well.  Turkey does not close down the sea to Russia and it is doubtful they ever will. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 14, 2014, 09:08:59 PM

A Russian military jet nearly collided with a commercial passenger airplane in international airspace near southern Sweden on Friday, the Swedish authorities said, but Russia insisted on Sunday that its jet had kept at a safe distance.

I hope someone breath tested that Russian pilot to make sure he wasn't drunk!

Now, which country should we believe? Tough choice...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 09:11:03 PM
Quote
You can argue Crimea is about history, and I'm sure that isn't entirely untrue...but  I think there is a case that it also has strategic purposes as well.  Turkey does not close down the sea to Russia and it is doubtful they ever will. 


Turkey has closed the Dardenelles numerous times.  You can google it.


When Russian naval officers refer the fleet as a "mud fleet", and that was long before the advanced weaponry of today, you know it has no military value.  So, you can stubbornly hold to your opinion, but it is flawed.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 14, 2014, 09:17:51 PM

Your husband is not posting here (is he?) and your characterization of his opinion, is nothing more than another opinion.  You or he did not refute the specific comments I made. 


You can argue Crimea is about history, and I'm sure that isn't entirely untrue...but  I think there is a case that it also has strategic purposes as well.  Turkey does not close down the sea to Russia and it is doubtful they ever will. 


Fathertime!

 

I don't think you are the sharpest tool in the shed.   ;D

Russia had a long term lease for the Naval base at Sevestopol and had they not invaded Crimea they would have continued to have it for many years to come.  Furthermore, the times we spent in Sevestopol were peaceful and there was no apparent animosity between Ukrainians (Crimean s) and the Russians (military and families) that we ever witnessed.    It is clearly Putin that created the animosity in Crimea and East Ukraine.

The only mistake made by Ukraine's new government was the stupid idea of limiting the Russian language (at least it was perceived that way by Russian speakers).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 09:26:06 PM
I don't think you are the sharpest tool in the shed.   ;D

Russia had a long term lease for the Naval base at Sevestopol and had they not invaded Crimea they would have continued to have it for many years to come.  Furthermore, the times we spent in Sevestopol were peaceful and there was no apparent animosity between Ukrainians (Crimean s) and the Russians (military and families) that we ever witnessed.    It is clearly Putin that created the animosity in Crimea and East Ukraine.

The only mistake made by Ukraine's new government was the stupid idea of limiting the Russian language (at least it was perceived that way by Russian speakers).


Yes Yes, but I KNOW you are not the sharpest tool in the shed!  :D


The preponderance of the rest of your post is opinion and conjecture....and I don't think the Russians would agree with.

Fathertime!



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 09:31:25 PM

Turkey has closed the Dardenelles numerous times.  You can google it.


When Russian naval officers refer the fleet as a "mud fleet", and that was long before the advanced weaponry of today, you know it has no military value.  So, you can stubbornly hold to your opinion, but it is flawed.


Actually you can present the closures to strengthen your case, but it is obvious you won't and for good reason.


So you are committed to saying that Crimea has NO military value...I'm comfy with you on record as having that opinion...obviously we can disagree. 


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 14, 2014, 09:40:39 PM
Viva Germany!<<Thousands of Germans have staged a protest rally to express their anger at the West’s warmongering policies against Russia over the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.At least 3,500 people took part in the protest, organized by the German Peace Movement, in the capital Berlin on Saturday.The demonstrators marched to the presidential Bellevue palace to condemn the West’s confrontation with Russia over the conflict in Ukraine.They expressed concern that the policies adopted by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) under the influence of the United States will lead to further escalation of tensions in Europe.The protesters also called for the dissolution of the Western military alliance, an immediate withdrawal of US nuclear weapons from Germany’s Büchel Air Base, and the closure of the US-run Ramstein Air Base in the country’s southwestern part.>>http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14 ... -policies/ (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14/390162/germans-protest-antirussia-policies/)


As protests in Europe go 3,500 is a tiny number.  Insignifigant would be an understatement. 

Doll you should read the latest poll results regarding German public opinion about Russia.  Overall most Germans approve of the way that Angela Merkel has handled the crisis and they distrust Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 14, 2014, 10:41:20 PM
One of the key components of membership in NATO is that a member nation cannot lease out a base to another, non-member nation within its territory.  I know that this is old ground, but should Ukraine choose to apply for membership in NATO, at least Krim will no longer prevent such membership.

I also note that the lease for the naval base and troops stationed in Krim was paid to Ukraine in the form of a discount on Gas prices, which, as soon as Krim was seized, was negated by the Russian government.  In other words, 'we're paying you for your naval base, but now that we've invaded you and taken your land from you, we'll no longer pay for using that land'.

Strategically, Krim offers nothing except oil drilling rights to Russia.  The naval base serves as an additional harbor, but one already in its possession. 

The belligerence that Russia now demonstrates to its neighbors was foisted on it by its actions in Krim.  One could argue that everything that has happened since the Olympics, and the spiraling of the Russian economy can all be attributed to the kneejerk reaction by the Russian government to EuroMaiden.

Russia was on shaky ground prior to the Olympics, but once the invasion occurred and the sanctions took hold, Russia's government was polarized and the hawks have certainly gained control over the foreign affairs of the country.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 15, 2014, 01:54:26 AM
I read, I think yesterday, that Russian fighters had invaded Sweden's airspace (again) and almost collided with a passenger jet.    This provocation is indicative of Russia actions against almost all nations bordering it.

I'm just curious what our Russian apologists think about this.  Do you think its fictitious?  Do you think it is in response to incursions by NATO in Russia?  Why would a nation continue to be belligerent?  What would be the basis for intentionally violating the airspace of another country?  Please, enlighten us.

Jone, you impressed me as an intelligent man. So why you can not see the fakes?  :)
You have demonstarted   an example of west propaganda zombification when writing about  violating the airspace of another country.
OK, I have to help victims of info wars :D

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/14/world/europe/sweden-russia-planes-near-collision/
Quote
(CNN) -- A Russian military intelligence plane nearly collided with a commercial passenger jet south of Sweden on Friday, the Swedish air force chief said Sunday.

The incident in international airspace forced the passenger flight en route from Denmark to Sweden to change course, Maj. Gen. Micael Byden said.

But the Russian Defense Ministry refuted the notion that one of its warplanes nearly collided with a passenger jet.

And a spokesman for Scandinavian Airlines said reports of danger to the plane or passengers were "blown out of proportion."

Knut Morten Johansen said the flight wasn't forced to change course, but that the pilot took normal advice from air traffic control.

"No security borders were breached," he said, adding that it was a "totally safe flight."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 15, 2014, 02:00:47 AM
Strategically, Krim offers nothing except oil drilling rights to Russia.  The naval base serves as an additional harbor, but one already in its possession. 

As Russia's Prime Minister Medvedev said Crimea is not an economic issue. Crimea is Russian history and fate.
I agree with Medvedev.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 15, 2014, 02:11:23 AM
Krim was recent history, and short at that in the larger scheme of things. Using the common logic now employed, one could argue that Piter is Swedish, and with the same amount of justification.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 15, 2014, 03:09:05 AM
While we're talking about giving land back, may as well hand back parts of Siberia to China.
The Chinese would probably do a much better job with Siberia than under its current management.

Hmmm...China will gain energy independence once they annex Siberia. Frightening prospect for the rest of the world.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 15, 2014, 03:21:21 AM
Krim was recent history, and short at that in the larger scheme of things. Using the common logic now employed, one could argue that Piter is Swedish, and with the same amount of justification.

I would agree about the same amount of justification if Piter was still populated by Swedes.

BTW, Piter was not existing during Swedish times  :D

While we're talking about giving land back, may as well hand back parts of Siberia to China.

Hand back? You have huge gaps in knowledge of Chinese  history and geography as well as Siberian.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 15, 2014, 03:28:38 AM
Should Russia hand back the Kuban region that was exchanged for Krym?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 15, 2014, 03:33:57 AM
Quote
I would agree about the same amount of justification if Piter was still populated by Swedes.

You are too intelligent to be so blind, my friend. Should we return Kaliningrad? Seems like "history" and "justice" would dictate that it be returned if we hope to make a case for Krim.

If you truly believe in the principle of referendums alone deciding allegiance, then perhaps we should revisit the Chechen situation.


Quote
BTW, Piter was not existing during Swedish times

Swamp land it was, and the deaths of many a serf built