Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: Newuser on October 16, 2018, 09:44:59 AM

Title: Good looks
Post by: Newuser on October 16, 2018, 09:44:59 AM
I am interested in meeting some Ukrainian women. I am just wondering do you have to be good looking to start meeting women from the FSU? I can speak Ukrainian and Russian decently. Just wondering how though it is to start meeting girls?
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Nightwish on October 16, 2018, 10:07:29 AM
Like anywhere else in the world. These are WOMEN and function like WOMEN do everywhere more or less.

They do however have a different culture compared to West.
They do however - in my opinion - generally looks better than the average western woman.
They do however - in my opinion - value family and finding love much more over a career then the average western woman

There is no magical female population out there who loves lepricons -  in any country. (excluded Mobys gf then  ;D)

so if you are buttugly at your own country, you will be as buttugly in Ukraine. :)
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: ML on October 16, 2018, 10:10:16 AM
I have heard a few times that FSU women have a saying:

"The man must only look a little bit better than a monkey."

I just barely met that criteria; so was able to meet with many FSU women in the 6 to 8.5 range, face wise.  Body wise, they were 8 to 9.5.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Newuser on October 16, 2018, 10:13:42 AM
I am deffinately not buttugly.  I would say I am average based on what people have told me. Do average guys have difficulties attracting FSU women?
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Newuser on October 16, 2018, 10:21:00 AM
That was pretty funny ML. Thanks for responding
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Nightwish on October 16, 2018, 12:06:20 PM
I am deffinately not buttugly.  I would say I am average based on what people have told me. Do average guys have difficulties attracting FSU women?

Probably not, if you are a descent man, can dress descent, act decent and all and all being a "normal" man.
Ukraine is a big sea with plenty of women ready to meet the man of her life in all ages and stages of life.
So depending on what you are looking for, you will have different chances and outcomes.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: JayH on October 16, 2018, 02:51:33 PM
Probably not, if you are a descent man, can dress descent, act decent and all and all being a "normal" man.


Add --  and you are NOT Trenchcoat ---  and/or a TC !! :deadhorse: :)
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Newuser on October 16, 2018, 03:07:42 PM
Add --  and you are NOT Trenchcoat ---  and/or a TC !! :deadhorse: :)

Whatís a TC?
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Nightwish on October 16, 2018, 03:21:08 PM
Add --  and you are NOT Trenchcoat ---  and/or a TC !! :deadhorse: :)

I did say normal  :)
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: DaveNY on October 16, 2018, 03:30:57 PM
If you want to meet Russian women in Russia, learn Russian before going to Russia or take Russian language lessons in Russia. Moscow State University in Moscow offers CE courses in Russian and has students from all over the world. Your future wife could be German or Swedish or French, etc.

Most RW do not speak English or German or another language well enough to carry on an extended conversation, unless it's one of the languages local to the FSU.

IMO, a RW going to give preference to a foreign man who can speak Russian. As for looks a number of RW have said to me, 'I don't want my future husband to be too good looking because then other women will want him.'
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: JayH on October 16, 2018, 03:45:22 PM
Whatís a TC?

Trenchcoat = social misfit

How is it that you speak Ukrainian   & Russian?
What age are you ?
If you give a little more info on yourself and circumstances -the forum will give more tailored "advice" !
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Newuser on October 16, 2018, 03:58:43 PM
Trenchcoat = social misfit

How is it that you speak Ukrainian   & Russian?
What age are you ?
If you give a little more info on yourself and circumstances -the forum will give more tailored "advice" !

I am actually Ukrainian that why I am really interested in Ukrainian girls. I am currently 28 so still somewhat young but from what I hear women get married there in their 20ís. I am actually traveling there for a wedding this November, so Iíll deffinately try to meet some girls
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: ML on October 16, 2018, 07:37:37 PM
If you want to meet Russian women in Russia, learn Russian before going to Russia or take Russian language lessons in Russia. Moscow State University in Moscow offers CE courses in Russian and has students from all over the world. Your future wife could be German or Swedish or French, etc.

Most RW do not speak English or German or another language well enough to carry on an extended conversation, unless it's one of the languages local to the FSU.

IMO, a RW going to give preference to a foreign man who can speak Russian. As for looks a number of RW have said to me, 'I don't want my future husband to be too good looking because then other women will want him.'

Dave, this man can already speak the language, so your advice does him no harm.

However, in general, your advice does great harm to most of the men who are contemplating this venture.

The USA man does not need to speak any Ukrainian or Russian ever !!!!

Spending time learning Ukrainian or Russian is a complete waste of time, especially so considering the 'opportunity cost' involved.  i.e. The income earning opportunity given up to pursue the waste of time.

If the man has spare time, it is best used in increasing his ability to increase his income.
Get an advanced degree, learn new computer skills, etc., etc.

Some of the biggest problems are with FSU wives here in USA who do not adapt quickly enough to English.  And one major contributor to this is:  a husband who speaks enough of their native language to allow the couple to communicate.

If you really want to screw up the FSU wife royally . . . ensure that she meets a lot of FSU speaking friends, that she has the Russian TV channels, etc.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: BillyB on October 16, 2018, 09:05:37 PM
I am interested in meeting some Ukrainian women. I am just wondering do you have to be good looking to start meeting women from the FSU? I can speak Ukrainian and Russian decently. Just wondering how though it is to start meeting girls?

Welcome Newuser. Since you're Ukrainian and speak the language, have you asked this question to the Ukrainians that you interact with? Don't worry about how you look. Some women will find you attractive and some will find you ugly. Stick with the girls that find you attractive. Also keep in mind the sexiest part of your body is your brain. You can't improve much on how you look but you can greatly improve on what's in your head.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: DaveNY on October 16, 2018, 09:37:23 PM
Dave, this man can already speak the language, so your advice does him no harm.

However, in general, your advice does great harm to most of the men who are contemplating this venture.

The USA man does not need to speak any Ukrainian or Russian ever !!!!

Spending time learning Ukrainian or Russian is a complete waste of time, especially so considering the 'opportunity cost' involved.  i.e. The income earning opportunity given up to pursue the waste of time.

If the man has spare time, it is best used in increasing his ability to increase his income.
Get an advanced degree, learn new computer skills, etc., etc.

Some of the biggest problems are with FSU wives here in USA who do not adapt quickly enough to English.  And one major contributor to this is:  a husband who speaks enough of their native language to allow the couple to communicate.

If you really want to screw up the FSU wife royally . . . ensure that she meets a lot of FSU speaking friends, that she has the Russian TV channels, etc.

ML I just scanned his initial post and missed the part about his speaking Russian and Ukrainian. Of course this brings up the question if he speaks these two languages he should know something of the culture. I assume he speaks the languages because his family is from that part of the world.

As for my other comments about learning her language we'll have to agree to disagree. My wife spoke very good English when I first meet her, good enough that she earned extra money working as a host and unofficial translator in Moscow. Yet I still worked to learn Russian.

In NYC, I know a number of couples from different parts of the world, not just the FSU. I know more than a few wives who wished her husband understood her language better. Knowing her language, IMO, is knowing her culture. I don't know any wife who's ever said she wished her husband didn't speak her language.

If the husband needs to work all the time and literally doesn't have the time and money to learn her language I can understand that. However, if he can afford the time and money to learn her language, IMO he should learn her language.

My wife and I celebrated our 18th anniversary recently and as I've mentioned before we tend to speak more Russian than English at home yet I knew no Russian when we got married.

As for your other comment about a FSU wife meeting others from the FSU, again we'll have to agree to disagree. NYC is home to lots of people from the FSU. We've met quite a few FSU expats living in NYC. Over the years we've attended numerous social events in the FSU community. Some of our best friends are couples of FSUW and American men. No problems.

None of the women trying to talk my wife into divorcing me and fleecing me in the divorce. I didn't even insist on a prenup before getting married so I would have been a good target. We also have the Russian TV channels.   

Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: GQBlues on October 16, 2018, 10:25:30 PM
I am interested in meeting some Ukrainian women. I am just wondering do you have to be good looking to start meeting women from the FSU? I can speak Ukrainian and Russian decently. Just wondering how though it is to start meeting girls?

Maybe itís just me, but this strikes me as an odd question. Is it tough for you to meet women where you live?

Anyway, my opinion had always been that attitude and confidence matters a helluva more than looks.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Maxx2 on October 16, 2018, 10:54:06 PM
I am deffinately not buttugly.  I would say I am average based on what people have told me. Do average guys have difficulties attracting FSU women?


Not if your passport has a blue cover.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: msmob on October 17, 2018, 02:13:42 AM

However, in general, your advice does great harm to most of the men who are contemplating this venture.

The USA man does not need to speak any Ukrainian or Russian ever !!!!

Spending time learning Ukrainian or Russian is a complete waste of time, especially so considering the 'opportunity cost' involved.  i.e. The income earning opportunity given up to pursue the waste of time.

If the man has spare time, it is best used in increasing his ability to increase his income.
Get an advanced degree, learn new computer skills, etc., etc.

Some of the biggest problems are with FSU wives here in USA who do not adapt quickly enough to English.  And one major contributor to this is:  a husband who speaks enough of their native language to allow the couple to communicate.

If you really want to screw up the FSU wife royally . . . ensure that she meets a lot of FSU speaking friends, that she has the Russian TV channels, etc.

ML

As long as you point this - IMO - seriously incorrect info - expect it to be challenged

I've lived in foreign nations for up to eight years at a time and I had UK TV  and occasionally HAD to speak in my native tongue with MY people.

 If your FSU partner has moved from her home nation for you - the least you can do is give her something from 'home'

It is only fair for them to seek out those that have been before

Sure, they may hear some things that you might not agree with - but surely that's for her to filter ?

There's nothing better than being able to converse with her friends relatives ...but then how often have you gone back to Ukraine ? .....

I'd NEVER have found / let alone stood a chance with SC - if I hadn't been able to speak some Russian



Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: GQBlues on October 17, 2018, 09:36:29 AM
FWIW, my opinion on this matter coincides with ML's. Even my wife tells she's more flustered when she hangs out with her FSUW group than when she's around her 'American' ones. There're far less snipping and gossips and the likes...

For language, there's really not an argument that if a WM spends a great deal of time in any country, it'll behoove him (or her) to learn the lingo. It'd be silly not to. Just as it would be for a FSUW coming to the west. Trying to learn and speak Russian, just because you married a Russian woman, and who now resides in your English-speaking country will only prove a detriment to your wife's language progression AND acclimation. My wife admits to this reality.

I certainly do not expect, much less would like for her to, learn 'my' language/s to communicate with me. English is spoken here where we are. That's plenty enough and very beneficial for us both.

There are Spanish speaking folks living in the US that had been here for decades and can still barely speak English because they immerse themselves in Spanish, and isolate themselves deep in segregated Spanish communities. Heck, in many respects, even black folks' speech, verbal and written language in the US is directly affected by their surrounding. Of those who integrate from those who segregate.

Of the group of MOB pairing we knew (WM / FSUW) - all of them, except us and a Russian couple originally here on a H1-B visa (now legal residents), are all divorced.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: ML on October 17, 2018, 11:31:35 AM
A couple of you missed the reasoning for the points GQ and I made.

We are not thinking it is best that our FSU wives stay away from other FSUW because we fear they may hear bad things about WM or that they may learn of ways to divorce us, etc.

It is that we know that the more they speak their native tongues, the longer it will take them to acclimate to their new country.

Same goes for watching TV channels broadcast in their native tongues.

But no one should think that GQ or I are in any way forcing or bullying our wives in this regard.  They have been intelligent and sensible enough to figure this out on their own and; as a result, have been very successful professionally and personally in the USA.

Also, learning a language to learn about a country is hogwash and is about the least efficient method possible. 

I know more about Russian/Ukrainian history, geography, natural resources, businesses, politics, etc., than do many Russian/Ukrainian natives.  Even as I know virtually zero of those languages.

Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: DaveNY on October 17, 2018, 12:13:41 PM
A couple of you missed the reasoning for the points GQ and I made.

We are not thinking it is best that our FSU wives stay away from other FSUW because we fear they may hear bad things about WM or that they may learn of ways to divorce us, etc.

It is that we know that the more they speak their native tongues, the longer it will take them to acclimate to their new country.

My wife spoke English before I met her and had been to the US in the mid 90s long before I met her. Ironically, after we were married and living in Moscow she was denied a visa to visit the US.

Same goes for watching TV channels broadcast in their native tongues.

Watching Russian TV worked great for helping to teach me Russian and also for helping my daughters learn Russian. Since we visit Russia on a fairly regular basis it's also an easy way to keep up with what's happening in Russia. Far easier than listening to CNN or other western broadcasts.

Also, learning a language to learn about a country is hogwash and is about the least efficient method possible. 

I know more about Russian/Ukrainian history, geography, natural resources, businesses, politics, etc., than do many Russian/Ukrainian natives.  Even as I know virtually zero of those languages.

You're probably the exception then. I lived in Russia for 6 years and I doubt I knew more about these subjects than most educated Russians. Since you are getting your news of the FSU from, presumably, English language sources there's going to be a possible bias over coverage of FSU business, politics, etc that will be different from that of a Russian language broadcast.

When I was learning Russian at MSU all the Russian language classes had a cultural component. In high school when I was a student, a very long time ago, learning Spanish, there were always cultural components to the Spanish lessons. Today my daughters are learning Spanish and their lessons also have cultural components. I always been told that culture and language go hand in hand. You can't understand one without understanding the other.

Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: ML on October 17, 2018, 12:36:53 PM
My wife spoke very good English when I first meet her, good enough that she earned extra money working as a host and unofficial translator in Moscow.

Dave, this is why your advice is not helpful to 'most' of the men in this pursuit.

Since your wife was proficient in English, you could have the luxury of learning Russian and not at all hinder your wife's acclimation to USA.

But for 'most' other couples, the FSU wife is not proficient, and thus the man learning her language will hinder her acclimation to USA.

You must move beyond the situation of rare individuals, to avoid giving misleading advice to the general situation.

Likewise, Moby's advice is misleading because he IS LIVING in the woman's country.  So learning that language is a good idea.

Advice giving by those in special circumstances is very misleading for the masses.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: DaveNY on October 17, 2018, 02:46:21 PM
Dave, this is why your advice is not helpful to 'most' of the men in this pursuit.

Since your wife was proficient in English, you could have the luxury of learning Russian and not at all hinder your wife's acclimation to USA.

But for 'most' other couples, the FSU wife is not proficient, and thus the man learning her language will hinder her acclimation to USA.

You must move beyond the situation of rare individuals, to avoid giving misleading advice to the general situation.

Likewise, Moby's advice is misleading because he IS LIVING in the woman's country.  So learning that language is a good idea.

Advice giving by those in special circumstances is very misleading for the masses.

ML, you realize that most westerners living in a Russian city such as Moscow listen to TV and radio broadcasts in their own language all the time. They browse the Internet in their own language all the time. They speak to other expats in their own language. Western expats dine out at western restaurants in Moscow. If the restaurants have TVs, CNN or BBC English language programs will likely be on. Is this true of all western expats in Moscow? Of course not but it certainly is true of a large percentage.

Yet you're saying if a Russian woman moves to the US she shouldn't do these things because it slows her integration into an American lifestyle? Are you saying westerners are special and deserve special consideration when living in foreign countries? Are you saying FSUW aren't capable of living an American lifestyle unless they go totally native and forget their FSU roots?
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: SteveInBoston on October 17, 2018, 08:34:34 PM
ML, you realize that most westerners living in a Russian city such as Moscow listen to TV and radio broadcasts in their own language all the time. They browse the Internet in their own language all the time. They speak to other expats in their own language. Western expats dine out at western restaurants in Moscow. If the restaurants have TVs, CNN or BBC English language programs will likely be on. Is this true of all western expats in Moscow? Of course not but it certainly is true of a large percentage.

Yet you're saying if a Russian woman moves to the US she shouldn't do these things because it slows her integration into an American lifestyle? Are you saying westerners are special and deserve special consideration when living in foreign countries? Are you saying FSUW aren't capable of living an American lifestyle unless they go totally native and forget their FSU roots?

That is a flawed argument.  Western expats have the means to live abroad and have the luxury to acclimate themselves to the culture/language, or not.  They have the option to move back home if the situation is not to their liking.

A FSUW bride/wife, on the other hand, will be handicapped if she only sticks to her own language.  The option for her, if she does not acclimate to the American lifestyle, is to move back to FSU?  How will that help the average Joe?

Also, NYC is totally different than, let's say, El Paso, Atlanta or Kansas City, let alone Topeka or Toledo or any of the other smaller cities.   There may be a small FSU community there, but it will not help her deal with the other aspects of life in those cities. 

Do you expect an FSU wife, with poor English skills, to navigate traffic, shopping, daily interactions and perhaps a job, and not learn English or learn it at a glacial pace?  Or have the husband, after working his normal job, babysit her as her full time translator?
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: DaveNY on October 17, 2018, 09:14:02 PM
That is a flawed argument.  Western expats have the means to live abroad and have the luxury to acclimate themselves to the culture/language, or not.  They have the option to move back home if the situation is not to their liking.

A FSUW bride/wife, on the other hand, will be handicapped if she only sticks to her own language. 

I never said a FSUW new to the US should stick to her native language, in fact if you've read my posts, and you should IMO they're genius, I've repeatedly said any legal or illegal resident of the US should learn English. Learning English will help increase your chances of employment and enhance your life in the US. Like it or not English is the language of business, politics and life in the US. 

The option for her, if she does not acclimate to the American lifestyle, is to move back to FSU?  How will that help the average Joe?

Unless the FSUW bride is totally alone, no family, no friends, her American husband is going to have to deal with her family and friends. My wife has no family left and yet she's always talking to friends in Moscow by email, messaging, phone, etc. The reality is a FSUW new to the US is going to speak her language in her new home in the US simply by talking with family and friends back home. It will be natural for her to find stores, businesses and people that deal with her needs, some in her native language.   

Then of course the AM is going to have to deal with visits back to her country. We've been to Russia a number of times. The AM will enjoy the trip more if he understands some of the language.

Also, NYC is totally different than, let's say, El Paso, Atlanta or Kansas City, let alone Topeka or Toledo or any of the other smaller cities.   There may be a small FSU community there, but it will not help her deal with the other aspects of life in those cities. 

True there probably isn't a large FSU community in the cities you mentioned. However, there's still the Internet. She can order food, clothes, etc off of Internet sites in the US and the FSU and have it delivered to her home. Again remember I'm not saying she shouldn't learn English, I'm saying just the opposite.

 
Do you expect an FSU wife, with poor English skills, to navigate traffic, shopping, daily interactions and perhaps a job, and not learn English or learn it at a glacial pace?  Or have the husband, after working his normal job, babysit her as her full time translator?

Many residents in the US do exactly as you stated. They go through life in the US with little to no English language skills. Lots of illegals in the US who have limited English language skills. IMO that's wrong. They should learn English.

I just don't see any reason to not speak your own language with people you meet who speak the same language. I see no reason why a FSUW shouldn't actively seek out groups from her home country. When my wife first moved to the US even though her English was very good and she was used to speaking English for extended periods of time she got tired of hearing nothing but English 24/7.

She needed to hear Russian just to give her mind a rest. For us I think that's when we began speaking more Russian at home and why now we tend to speak more Russian at home than English. This isn't unusual I know of a number of couples from different cultures who end up speaking more of her language at home, assuming the husband speaks her language. 

If an AM wants to restrict his FSU wife from speaking her language and restrict her from meeting other FSU people in the US then IMO there's something wrong with the AM.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: ML on October 17, 2018, 09:58:28 PM
If an AM wants to restrict his FSU wife from speaking her language and restrict her from meeting other FSU people in the US then IMO there's something wrong with the AM.

Dave, I know that those who hold your views on this topic are always ready to throw this in   similar to 'playing the race card.'   That is a real cop-out.

You know full well that neither I nor GQ have ever tried to restrict our wives from  anything.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: DaveNY on October 17, 2018, 10:13:23 PM
Dave, I know that those who hold your views on this topic are always ready to throw this in   similar to 'playing the race card.'   That is a real cop-out.

You know full well that neither I nor GQ have ever tried to restrict our wives from  anything.

ML, I'm not saying anything about anyone on RWD. When I post, unless I mention someone specific, I'm dealing with a larger audience not just of the RWD community. Not just the FSU community but the immigrant community in the US as a whole.

It is not unheard of for an AM with little or no understanding of his wife's language and culture to say she can't speak her language in his house. It's not even unusual for an AM to say who his immigrant wife can and can't associate with. There are numerous examples of this in the news over the past couple of decades in the immigrant community.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: GQBlues on October 17, 2018, 10:28:41 PM
Dave, I know that those who hold your views on this topic are always ready to throw this in   similar to 'playing the race card.'   That is a real cop-out.

You know full well that neither I nor GQ have ever tried to restrict our wives from  anything.

Well, thatís actually not accurate in my case. Iím guilty. I did asked my wife to promise me that she never drinks and drive when she goes out with her friends. So I suppose that makes me a controlling bastard. 

With everything else, she has a life to live and being married to me just happens to be a part of it.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: DaveNY on October 17, 2018, 11:08:23 PM
Well, thatís actually not accurate in my case. Iím guilty. I did asked my wife to promise me that she never drinks and drive when she goes out with her friends. So I suppose that makes me a controlling bastard. 

With everything else, she has a life to live and being married to me just happens to be a part of it.

If we're going to deal with those bad habits, I know more than a few RW who've told their husbands, American and Russian, if they smoke in the house they're dead. I'm told something like 70% of RM smoke. Far more than AM.

One guy I know married a Ukrainian woman and first thing she did when she came to the US was to ban him from smoking in the house he had bought and fully paid for long before he married her. Then when she was pregnant he wasn't allowed to smoke anywhere on the property or in any of their cars. After a few years of marriage he said he was so exhausted from arguing with her he gave up smoking. I think that's a universal female trait, keep nagging him until he does what you want.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: SteveInBoston on October 17, 2018, 11:14:20 PM
My mom was Korean (dad was in the Army).  I grew up in Korea, near the Army base in Daegu (Camp Henry).  Mom spoke a little English, but not much.  When I turned 10 we moved to the states, to Leesville Louisiana.   

Initially my mom could not help me with school matters - attend teacher conferences, take me to sports leagues, school outings, etc.   This was an issue because she was the only one who drove - my dad had a traumatic experience that prevented him from driving. 

After 2 years she was more or less proficient.  She learned English mostly by watching TV, specifically soap operas:  General Hospital and Days of Our Lives.  She still had trouble reading and writing, but could get by.  She did the "normal" things, like attending teacher conferences, taking me to band practice, taking me to boy scout camps, etc.

Later on, after I grew up, the Internet rolled around and I set her up with a computer to read Korean news and articles, and to watch Korean soap operas.  Also, my parents moved to Tampa when my dad retired, which had a large Korean community.  Her English declined markedly after a few years.

I agree mostly with ML and GQ here.  The more a foreign person sticks with immersing in the local language, the faster they will adapt.  Sticking with a foreign community or Internet/TV/radio becomes a crutch. 

I understand it is nice and even necessary for someone to hear and read their own language now and again.   But there is fine line between "taking a break" and going with the path of least resistance and defaulting to their language most of the time, because, in this age, they can.

But I also believe the husband should learn the wife's language, at least a bit.  Especially if there are frequent visits back to her country or visits from her relatives.

Quote
Many residents in the US do exactly as you stated. They go through life in the US with little to no English language skills. Lots of illegals in the US who have limited English language skills. IMO that's wrong. They should learn English.

DaveNY, it is funny that you both contradict and support the idea of learning English in the same statement.  Heh.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: BillyB on October 17, 2018, 11:41:30 PM

When a newbie comes to the forum and asks what he should improve on, I'd tell him improve at work, exercise and improve on his hygiene before learning another language. A woman is less likely to dump a guy if he's clean, healthy, and accomplished at work compared to if he didn't know her language. If a guy is fit and accomplished and needs a hobby, then study a language. When I was single, I was way to busy dating women to have any time learning a new language.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: GQBlues on October 18, 2018, 12:04:54 PM
If we're going to deal with those bad habits, I know more than a few RW who've told their husbands, American and Russian, if they smoke in the house they're dead. I'm told something like 70% of RM smoke. Far more than AM.

One guy I know married a Ukrainian woman and first thing she did when she came to the US was to ban him from smoking in the house he had bought and fully paid for long before he married her. Then when she was pregnant he wasn't allowed to smoke anywhere on the property or in any of their cars. After a few years of marriage he said he was so exhausted from arguing with her he gave up smoking. I think that's a universal female trait, keep nagging him until he does what you want.

Seriously though...I asked my wife once but always knew I didn't really have to. She's fully aware of the danger of drinking and driving. I'm lucky in that regard. I've always given my wife full freedom to plot her life's course and would only support her along the way.

But yes, regarding 'smoking' - I used to smoke, as did my wife. When we got married, I made a vow to myself to stop to make sure I live longer for her/us. My wife soon learning on what I was going to do, followed suit. Neither of us had any cigarette since. I don't have any other vice, drugs, alcohol, etc...an occasional beer every other blue moon Tuesday, but even then only when we're home. I don't buckle to peer pressure. My wife likes wine. I usually drive when we go out so she gets to have a glass, sometimes two, during our meals. Last we were in Napa was probably the most I ever drank wine. The case of wine we had delivered home lasted over two years worth of holidays enjoyed with our guests and family.

One of the things my wife does on her own that I really like is she'd always call me, or send me a text, whenever she's leaving work or anywhere to let me know she's on her way.

I've always maintained life's creed that - 'what you get from asking is never worth keeping'.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: msmob on October 18, 2018, 12:16:36 PM


Likewise, Moby's advice is misleading because he IS LIVING in the woman's country.  So learning that language is a good idea.

I am ? ... 'News' to me ..  We live in a nation where Greek, Turkish and English are spoken


Advice giving by those in special circumstances is very misleading for the masses.

quite..

Many of us contact FSU who do not speak good English and it is a BIG advantage over the 'competition'

Once such ladies are in a nation with English ( French German, Norwegian, - delete as appropriate ) some suggest  'immersion' and no access to their native tongue .... how crassly cruel is that ?

While we work - they can go to school and improve their English and do volunteer work ....

Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: jone on October 18, 2018, 12:28:18 PM
Learning a language is not something you do, like taking a test for a certification.   Learning a language is an everyday thing and unless the language is practiced, with regularity, it is lost. 

Case in point:  I had Russian as a language course in college.  When I began going to Russia in the early 2000s I tried to resurrect my Russian language skills.  I realized that while I had the basics down, the slang and double meanings of words and phrases would never be mine again.    So, now, when I am in Russia, I depend on a vocabulary of about 1000 words and use them to get my thoughts across.  But I am lost in a sophisticated conversation.

Those who wish to progress past this language understanding that I have will have to be bombarded by Russian on a daily basis.  I don't think that is realistic in courting a woman.   Unless you have another reason for learning Russian, just knowing the basics and some vocabulary is sufficient for letting a woman that you care enough about your future that you are trying to communicate.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: msmob on October 18, 2018, 01:12:12 PM

just knowing the basics and some vocabulary is sufficient for letting a woman that you care enough about your future that you are trying to communicate.

 :clapping:
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: DaveNY on October 18, 2018, 03:07:18 PM
Seriously though...I asked my wife once but always knew I didn't really have to. She's fully aware of the danger of drinking and driving. I'm lucky in that regard. I've always given my wife full freedom to plot her life's course and would only support her along the way.

But yes, regarding 'smoking' - I used to smoke, as did my wife. When we got married, I made a vow to myself to stop to make sure I live longer for her/us. My wife soon learning on what I was going to do, followed suit. Neither of us had any cigarette since. I don't have any other vice, drugs, alcohol, etc...an occasional beer every other blue moon Tuesday, but even then only when we're home. I don't buckle to peer pressure. My wife likes wine. I usually drive when we go out so she gets to have a glass, sometimes two, during our meals. Last we were in Napa was probably the most I ever drank wine. The case of wine we had delivered home lasted over two years worth of holidays enjoyed with our guests and family.

One of the things my wife does on her own that I really like is she'd always call me, or send me a text, whenever she's leaving work or anywhere to let me know she's on her way.

I've always maintained life's creed that - 'what you get from asking is never worth keeping'.

From what I observed in Russia it seems about 70% of RM smoke and about 70% of RW don't smoke. My wife doesn't smoke and can't tolerate men who smoke. Of course with children, our house as always been non smoking. All our visitors know this and respect the rules. Even the smokers admit they wouldn't dare smoke in someone else's house without asking it's just good manners.

As for drinking I think the numbers might be even higher. I don't recall meeting any RM who didn't drink except for those who were trying to quit due to alcoholism. RW don't drink in quite as high numbers but then many have told me that don't drink while holding a glass of wine. Many RW don't seem to consider drinking wine the same as drinking hard liquor.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: msmob on October 19, 2018, 12:11:22 AM
Probably a more accurate source:

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/7/1/22 (http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/7/1/22)

Amongst older FSU women - ( 45+) very few didn't smoke when younger in my experience.. it was considered 'cool' and 'sophisticated' to smoke western brands.

Most wised up - but can lapse - a bit like the wine isn't really drinking thing ..








Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: SteveInBoston on October 19, 2018, 07:46:17 AM
I've noticed there seems to be a black and white approach to qualifying smoking/not smoking and drinking/not drinking.

Occasional smoking (a few cigarettes and day, let's say) is categorized as not smoking.   Only regular smoking is considered smoking.

Beer and wine is considered not drinking, hard liquor is considered drinking.

I've met women who don't like men who drink, but wonder why I am not drinking beer with my meal...

Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Jumper on October 29, 2018, 12:18:57 AM
If we're going to deal with those bad habits, I know more than a few RW who've told their husbands, American and Russian, if they smoke in the house they're dead. I'm told something like 70% of RM smoke. Far more than AM.

One guy I know married a Ukrainian woman and first thing she did when she came to the US was to ban him from smoking in the house he had bought and fully paid for long before he married her. Then when she was pregnant he wasn't allowed to smoke anywhere on the property or in any of their cars. After a few years of marriage he said he was so exhausted from arguing with her he gave up smoking. I think that's a universal female trait, keep nagging him until he does what you want.

I dont smoke.
It's a deal breaker for me as far as a relationship.
I told my *then* romantic interest that feeling at some point in our conversations before we met.
I did not know she smoked, but assumed she likely did at least occasionally as a great deal of Russians/Ukranians  do.
She quit before we met and has never smoked again.She dint tell me that tidbit initially,   only after we became a bit more serious before engagement.
Overall she was very glad she quit regardless.


As far as language,  she had a good conversational grasp of English when we met  and could get along well here.Some people did not understand her completely, but mostly over the accent and soft voice.

I know a bit of Russian but no matter how far I progressed ,she would always prefer English between us. She likes the language better as to her ear it sounds softer.
Certainly now after 8 years together in the usa, no way would she want to speak Russian as a household language between us,and would not have wanted to initially as she understood it would be a crutch and harm  her English  learning curve.

She does speak Russian to our daughter,  as we truly want her to grow up bilingual for several reasons,but of course her understanding her family in Ukraine is paramount of those reasons.
She is as fluent in both languages as any 4yo would be,but once starting school.we both realize her Russian will diminish and already has with preschool.
   Anyway I'm a proponent of men learning a bit of Russian, it's unlikely they will be fluent but they may he able to.understand their in laws a bit,and they will understand their wives better in many cases.
If that's not worth a bit of time, then priorities differ.
The obvious  caveat to that is to be sure the language of the country your residing in is the main focus ,  if not already fluent.






Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 01, 2018, 07:14:35 PM
Beer and wine is considered not drinking, hard liquor is considered drinking.

That's interesting stuff Steve (Dave also). I didn't know about that aspect of FSW though thinking about it, it would make some stuff add up.

It's kind of funny as Spirt watered down with something like Cola or similar cam often be a lower alcohol level than wine. Take those cans of premixed Jack Daniels, Vodka or Rum mix with Cola, they tend to often be about 5% volume, far less than most wines. My guess is when I mix it myself or buy it in a pub the volume could be even lower than that. I'm not personally one fir drinking sports straight though.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 01, 2018, 07:34:05 PM
I personally think OP here has been silly to not hit Ukraine for women big time before now though. I'm  sorry but to wait to 28 is just slack, he could have got plenty of action in Ukraine is decent AW were not ponying up. I would give my right arm to be a FSU man with citizenship in US or UK. It's a gift to be envious off. I think we all know FSW woukd be crawling over themselves to meet such a guy.

OP to them you will have both the allure of a WM and all that comes with that AND be an insider by being a Ukrainian. That will clear a lot of girls who are insincere since your knowledge of Russian & Ukrainian language and probably culture means there are easier fish for them to fry.

I think knowing the language will open up more women that don't speak English well. I think most of the women will be more comfortable with you speaking to them in their native language. For later on if the women comes to live in US you could switch, but then again it could help avoid her going off with a US guy ;D
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: DaveNY on November 01, 2018, 07:52:21 PM
That's interesting stuff Steve (Dave also). I didn't know about that aspect of FSW though thinking about it, it would make some stuff add up.

It's kind of funny as Spirt watered down with something like Cola or similar cam often be a lower alcohol level than wine. Take those cans of premixed Jack Daniels, Vodka or Rum mix with Cola, they tend to often be about 5% volume, far less than most wines. My guess is when I mix it myself or buy it in a pub the volume could be even lower than that. I'm not personally one fir drinking sports straight though.

Trench what you're missing is that few if any FSUW knows the alcohol by volume (ABV) of wine (~15%), beer (~5%) or the hard stuff (~40%). Also many of the RW I know will only sip a glass of wine all night and not finish the glass. Even most of the RW who are wine drinkers won't have more than 2 glasses.

Whereas it's not uncommon for the RM to have 6 or 8 beers and maybe a few glasses of vodka, whiskey, etc over the course of an evening. Even accounting for their lower body weight in general most RW will consume less alcohol, usually much less alcohol than RM. This is a broad generalization there are exceptions of course.
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: msmob on November 01, 2018, 10:14:46 PM
Trench what you're missing is that few if any FSUW knows the alcohol by volume (ABV) of wine (~15%), beer (~5%) or the hard stuff (~40%).

Tosh - it's clearly written on bottles and most FSU W I know check this

Also many of the RW I know will only sip a glass of wine all night and not finish the glass. Even most of the RW who are wine drinkers won't have more than 2 glasses.

I recognise these women - but given the 'right circumstances' many of the - 'occasionally socially drinking' types proclaim that "I am Russian" and get fall down drunk.. 

Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: DaveNY on November 01, 2018, 10:44:18 PM
Tosh - it's clearly written on bottles and most FSU W I know check this

It's also on the bottles in Europe and the US and yet it's unlikely most women and men could tell the ABV of the alcohol they're drinking. More importantly I doubt many could guess the ABV of their drink after the mixer and ice have been added.

I recognise these women - but given the 'right circumstances' many of the - 'occasionally socially drinking' types proclaim that "I am Russian" and get fall down drunk..

Strangely enough the experts disagree with you. Perhaps you should email the author and introduce yourself. I'm sure once you identify yourself and tell him where he's made his errors he'll be glad to make the changes you recommend. He's an MD and PhD but I'm sure you're far better educated and have more experience in the area?

Razvodovsky YE. yury_razvodovsky@mail.ru
http://sciforschenonline.org/journals/clinical-research/yury-evgeny-razvodovsky.php

http://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/alcohol-consumption-and-gender-gap-in-allcause-mortality-in-russia-2329-6488-1000271.php?aid=90601
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 01, 2018, 10:58:38 PM
I recognise these women - but given the 'right circumstances' many of the - 'occasionally socially drinking' types proclaim that "I am Russian" and get fall down drunk..
Is that right after you proclaim "I am Irish" and fall around as p*ssed as a lord, lol  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: msmob on November 02, 2018, 03:52:12 AM
Is that right after you proclaim "I am Irish" and fall around as p*ssed as a lord, lol  :ROFL:

Only in the VERY best of company ...
Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Boethius on November 02, 2018, 11:35:02 AM
Strangely enough the experts disagree with you. Perhaps you should email the author and introduce yourself. I'm sure once you identify yourself and tell him where he's made his errors he'll be glad to make the changes you recommend. He's an MD and PhD but I'm sure you're far better educated and have more experience in the area?

Razvodovsky YE. yury_razvodovsky@mail.ru
http://sciforschenonline.org/journals/clinical-research/yury-evgeny-razvodovsky.php

http://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/alcohol-consumption-and-gender-gap-in-allcause-mortality-in-russia-2329-6488-1000271.php?aid=90601

I think you missed the point. Moby is not saying as many RW drink as do RM. I read it as they will use their Russian heritage as an excuse to ďlet looseĒ when they wish. This is generational as well. I remember Oksana Baiul using this excuse when she was arrested for drunk driving. It was part of her denial of her alcoholism.

Mixed drinks almost always have more alcohol than wine or beer.

http://www.thespruceeats.com/determining-cocktail-alcohol-proof-760307

Title: Re: Good looks
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 02, 2018, 11:52:33 AM
Dave, I know that those who hold your views on this topic are always ready to throw this in   similar to 'playing the race card.'   That is a real cop-out.

You know full well that neither I nor GQ have ever tried to restrict our wives from  anything.


or else...