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Author Topic: More Bad News for Russia  (Read 602758 times)

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Offline JayH

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More Bad News for Russia
« Reply #5550 on: October 31, 2017, 05:26:00 PM »
Yes, another one of Jay's "reliable" sources  :cluebat:

Russians can and do speak freely, they just can't protest whenever they wish. Russians have full access to the internet and many have traveled outside of the country. They're not as blind as you think they are. Exactly what "reality" is catching up with Russia? The majority of Americans disapproved of the war in Vietnam and today the majority think going into Iraq under George W Bush was a mistake. Unnecessary conflicts usually aren't popular.

I am sorry- what reality?

A  little respectfully --"full" access ?? Really-- you believe that? Full access when they travel outside Russia--yes !
Reality-- that would be actual news that Russia has invaded Ukraine with Russian military and they are responsible for killing thousands and doing billions of $ damage to eastern Ukraine and the Ukrainian economy. The reality is that some have caught on to what the facts are-- and you wonder how many more would condemn Putin & the Kremlin if the truth of it was available more widely.
 
There are so many examples of the lack of free speech -- but my reference was about being able to speak about non Kremlin acceptable points without fear of retribution. Are you silly enough to believe that many who respond on survey are not following the party line out of concern for what could happen if they did not. No response required.

Having access to the world art large-- does not guarantee actually getting the truth-- eg Doll was ( maybe still is?) denying it was Russian military in Eastern Ukraine over a long period of time. She was not alone --others who live in Russia relatively close to the Ukrainian border also repeatedly & over a long period of time -- asserted the same thing.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 05:28:30 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5551 on: October 31, 2017, 05:46:36 PM »
I think it's a fine line.  The constitution and bill of rights deals with individual liberties for the most part.  Those organizing protests should have to have a permit in order that law enforcement can have time to plan for crowd control, traffic control, etc.


True, they should give authorities the time to plan.  Plus, if they blockade roads/access, they should be arrested.  But in Russia, permits to protest have been denied, last one I can think of, in Moscow, for a rally against anti terrorism laws.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline treadmilldude

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« Reply #5552 on: November 01, 2017, 03:24:48 AM »
Off topic Boethius. (By the way, I was teasing you yesterday on Bill's little boy Boe. I know how much you love Children). But why is ADATE allowed to advertise on RWD?? Does Dan really need the advertising $$$ this badly? (Face in hands)  :( I thought the point of RWD is to help single Men increase their chances of successfully marrying a FSUW?

Offline Doll

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« Reply #5553 on: November 01, 2017, 04:35:59 AM »
No response required
 

I am sure you don't need responses of people who often go to Russia, who know how things are.

You're right- you won't stand any response.



Скучно, девочки. (c) Putin

Online mhr7

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« Reply #5554 on: November 01, 2017, 04:55:05 AM »
A  little respectfully --"full" access ?? Really-- you believe that? Full access when they travel outside Russia--yes !
Reality-- that would be actual news that Russia has invaded Ukraine with Russian military and they are responsible for killing thousands and doing billions of $ damage to eastern Ukraine and the Ukrainian economy. The reality is that some have caught on to what the facts are-- and you wonder how many more would condemn Putin & the Kremlin if the truth of it was available more widely.
 
There are so many examples of the lack of free speech -- but my reference was about being able to speak about non Kremlin acceptable points without fear of retribution. Are you silly enough to believe that many who respond on survey are not following the party line out of concern for what could happen if they did not. No response required.

Having access to the world art large-- does not guarantee actually getting the truth-- eg Doll was ( maybe still is?) denying it was Russian military in Eastern Ukraine over a long period of time. She was not alone --others who live in Russia relatively close to the Ukrainian border also repeatedly & over a long period of time -- asserted the same thing.

Full access unless you're looking for gay porn. If you want, give me any relevant website and I'll try to access it. If I can't I'll let you know. Euromaidan press, UNIAN- I can even access these sites no problem.

Even the poll you cited yesterday showed that only 41% of Russians approve of the government interfering in E. Ukraine so how many aren't towing the party line? Go to the Levada site and take a look at all of the polls and see how many aren't towing the party line.

The days of the KGB are over Jay. The government isn't paying any attention to what people on the street are talking about. Russians enjoy talking about politics and have no problem openly voicing their disgust with government corruption and rigged elections.

I've been living in Rostov for the last 3+ years and have yet to meet anyone who denies Russian involvement in E. Ukraine. Honestly, if life in Russia was as miserable as you think it is I would have left a long time ago.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 01:33:18 PM by mhr7 »
"We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." - Louis Brandeis

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« Reply #5555 on: November 01, 2017, 09:45:39 AM »
mhr7, I would still be careful, if I were in your shoes, which sites I accessed.  Russia wants servers physically on its soil for a reason.  The powers that be are much more defensive about internet access than anyone is letting on.  Search profiles are being built and, if there is controversy, will be acted upon.  There are signs that the thought police of the former Soviet Union are still in the shadows.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Doll

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« Reply #5556 on: November 01, 2017, 10:37:48 AM »
mhr7, seriously- be careful


This advise is coming from an American?

Online jone

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« Reply #5557 on: November 01, 2017, 10:38:44 AM »
And this advice is coming from someone who thinks an electron is the size of a pea.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Online mhr7

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« Reply #5558 on: November 01, 2017, 10:39:14 AM »
mhr7, I would still be careful, if I were in your shoes, which sites I accessed.  Russia wants servers physically on its soil for a reason.  The powers that be are much more defensive about internet access than anyone is letting on.  Search profiles are being built and, if there is controversy, will be acted upon.  There are signs that the thought police of the former Soviet Union are still in the shadows.

I don't tend to use sites the government would be concerned about. My point is that Russia isn't isolated from the "real" world.
"We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." - Louis Brandeis

Online jone

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« Reply #5559 on: November 01, 2017, 10:45:58 AM »
I don't tend to use sites the government would be concerned about. My point is that Russia isn't isolated from the "real" world.

Fully agree.  I remember a couple of years ago when I was in Eastern Europe and RWD went down for three days.  I honestly believed that it had been blocked.  While I wasn't paranoid, I had heard the stories from Jim about his recent run-ins with the people who oversaw what he posted online and his sight seeing tour around Moscow. 

The uptake of all of this was that if Russia is so concerned about influencing people in other countries through the internet (which we all know such efforts exist) would the powers that be not be just as concerned about what type of information/disinformation is directed at Russia?
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Doll

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« Reply #5560 on: November 01, 2017, 10:56:49 AM »
And this advice is coming from someone who thinks an electron is the size of a pea.
I hope people here don't think that all the rest are dumb.

Offline Doll

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« Reply #5561 on: November 01, 2017, 10:59:33 AM »
   (which we all know such efforts exist) 

Any proof other than "unians" reliable sources?

Online jone

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« Reply #5562 on: November 01, 2017, 11:08:31 AM »
Any proof other than "unians" reliable sources?

Without malice, I am curious to know if you believe that there are no efforts by Russian nationals in the pay of the government or persons  linked to the government that spend their time trying to influence public opinion in other countries?
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Doll

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« Reply #5563 on: November 01, 2017, 11:56:11 AM »
Without malice, I am curious to know if you believe that there are no efforts by Russian nationals in the pay of the government or persons  linked to the government that spend their time trying to influence public opinion in other countries?
Proof please. I didn't start it so you answer.

Online jone

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« Reply #5564 on: November 01, 2017, 12:32:19 PM »
Proof?  What proof?  I asked your opinion.  I am curious to know.  And, with your statements, I am sure the rest of the forum would enjoy knowing your opinion, also.  It will serve as reading material and fodder for discussion for days.

The question is whether you believe the Russian government or agents associated with the Russian government hire people to go on websites throughout the world, as paid employees, for the sole purpose of misleading readers away from factual information detrimental to the Russian government?

It is a simple opinion.  By all means, you have castigated enough people on this forum for their beliefs with or without proof, I think we'd all like to know your opinion.  (Or is it a secret?)
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Doll

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« Reply #5565 on: November 01, 2017, 12:38:38 PM »
I can't answer because I am afraid Putin won't let me go to Russia. Don't tell anybody, ok?

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5566 on: November 01, 2017, 12:40:08 PM »
Off topic Boethius. (By the way, I was teasing you yesterday on Bill's little boy Boe. I know how much you love Children). But why is ADATE allowed to advertise on RWD?? Does Dan really need the advertising $$$ this badly? (Face in hands)  :( I thought the point of RWD is to help single Men increase their chances of successfully marrying a FSUW?


I don't know, you'd have to ask Dan.  However, I do know there are 3 former members who found their wives on ADate, so it isn't 100% scam.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Madlen

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« Reply #5567 on: November 01, 2017, 12:57:41 PM »

The question is whether you believe the Russian government or agents associated with the Russian government hire people to go on websites throughout the world, as paid employees, for the sole purpose of misleading readers away from factual information detrimental to the Russian government?


Answer is in your question.
Be as You are).

Online jone

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« Reply #5568 on: November 01, 2017, 01:08:39 PM »
I can't answer because I am afraid Putin won't let me go to Russia. Don't tell anybody, ok?

Okay, then let me give you something to munch on.  You play a game with people on this forum.  Yet, you challenged me to give proof of the above statement that I made that everyone knows that Russia is trolling the internet.  It is possible that some (very few) may not know that Russian trolling exists.  It is a proven fact. I can tell you that a Russian court agrees with me.  The court found that Lyudmilla Savchuk was telling the truth when she detailed the happenings inside the infamous troll factory in St. Petersburg.  It is a matter of public record.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11656043/My-life-as-a-pro-Putin-propagandist-in-Russias-secret-troll-factory.html

There are countless other stories.  But since you put so much faith in the Russian state, then you should also believe a Russian court that found Ms. Savchuk to be telling the truth and awarded her 1 Ruble as damages.   

However, you should know that Russian trolls exist.  You have been trolling this forum since you came back in the past few months.  And for that I disdain you.

Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5569 on: November 01, 2017, 02:37:49 PM »
I don't think Doll is trolling.  She has a particular view of Russia. 


All big countries try to shape public opinion in their own best interests.   The troll factories did us a favour, by exposing that a government plants information for their own purposes. 
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline JayH

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« Reply #5570 on: November 01, 2017, 05:05:35 PM »


The days of the KGB are over Jay.


Yeah agree --it is called the FSB now !!!
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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« Reply #5571 on: November 01, 2017, 05:06:52 PM »

   The troll factories did us a favour, by exposing that a government plants information for their own purposes.

I said much the same thing yesterday in Propaganda thread .
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #5572 on: November 01, 2017, 09:25:53 PM »
   

However, you should know that Russian trolls exist.  You have been trolling this forum since you came back in the past few months.  And for that I disdain you.

It is very important that jone 'disdains' you!  :ROFL: He doesn't like to have his views contradicted, or to not respond to him in the way he tries to demand.  Of course he 'forgives' the USA or trump for similar things that he criticizes other nations of!  This is why he is known as a whitewashing hypocrite. 

Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

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« Reply #5573 on: November 01, 2017, 10:45:20 PM »
Answer is in your question.

So, you agree - a govt should spent tax payers money on ensuring 'bad' news  gets buried and false news is posted to hide the facts ?  :o

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« Reply #5574 on: November 01, 2017, 10:50:29 PM »
It is very important that jone 'disdains' you!  :ROFL: He doesn't like to have his views contradicted, or to not respond to him in the way he tries to demand.  Of course he 'forgives' the USA or trump for similar things that he criticizes other nations of!  This is why he is known as a whitewashing hypocrite. 

Fathertime!

FT, let's not have this thread polluted by dissing those who- for some reason - unfathomable to most outside the US and the majority of voters in the US -  support  'Tramp'...  ;)


 

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