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Author Topic: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy  (Read 16492 times)

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Online msmob

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #175 on: July 05, 2017, 12:22:58 AM »


It is clear - to me - that anyone choosing such a 'lobbyist' was playing with fire - given their background ...

An interesting thread, about someone I'd never heard of and I surprised anyone would want to 'defend' - based on their former client list - they followed the money - rather than principle.

Sod off Photobucket - this punter moved to flickr - rather than being blackmailed

Offline ML

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #176 on: August 15, 2017, 08:16:03 PM »
An interesting thread, about someone I'd never heard of and I surprised anyone would want to 'defend' - based on their former client list - they followed the money - rather than principle.

I didn't read all this thread, but just a word here about this comment.

Lawyers (for instance) quite often do (and sometimes are required to) defend those whom they don't like or don't agree with.

I assume the same applies to people like Manafort. 
i.e.  He will work for anyone who pays him.

So those who need help don't need to see who he has worked for in the past.  They are only concerned about his effectiveness.
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Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #177 on: August 15, 2017, 08:21:25 PM »
So those who need help don't need to see who he has worked for in the past.  They are only concerned about his effectiveness.

Of course but, to find that out, they WOULD have to see who he had worked for - and how effective he was in what he was supposed to do for those previous employers.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #178 on: August 15, 2017, 08:48:04 PM »
I didn't read all this thread, but just a word here about this comment.

Lawyers (for instance) quite often do (and sometimes are required to) defend those whom they don't like or don't agree with.

I assume the same applies to people like Manafort. 
i.e.  He will work for anyone who pays him.

So those who need help don't need to see who he has worked for in the past.  They are only concerned about his effectiveness.


He is being investigated for money laundering. 


I think there is a difference between defending a criminal because you believe in the rule of law, and advancing the personal interests of dictators who have often killed thousands or more, and usually have stolen huge sums of money from their countries' treasuries.
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

Online msmob

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #179 on: August 15, 2017, 11:07:29 PM »
Agree with Boethius, here ..  The analogy with lawyers is a poor one - IMHO.

Given the time taken to build a case - I'd be surprised if anything incriminating was found at his home.. The standard practice is to  state the computers were leased and wiped after ....Russia 2018 World Cup Football campaign..

Sod off Photobucket - this punter moved to flickr - rather than being blackmailed

Offline ML

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #180 on: August 19, 2017, 09:06:50 AM »
I think there is some degree of parallel between lawyers and other professions.

But lawyers often get a pass on their actions, and rightly so given our legal system based on idea everyone entitled to defense.

However, others should also get some benefit of the doubt in their actions.

There was a locally famous case here in my university town.

A finance professor was hired to provide expert testimony against the state education department in a case involving funding of school districts.

This professor was then called into the Provosts office and lectured about the appropriateness of his actions in arguing against the state.

The finance professor then mentioned how one of the most prominent law professors at the university had several times represented employees in lawsuits against this university.

The Provost became unnerved, mouth dry and fumbled around with words trying to say that he really didn't mind what this finance professor had done and had really just wanted to discuss how the case was progressing.

It's just one example of the double standards allowed.
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Offline JayH

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #181 on: August 23, 2017, 01:44:01 AM »
ML -- you are getting a few things confused here. Acting as a consultant or a lawyer can put you in awkward places that is fair comment -- but the wider information says something else was happening here.
Supporting Trump seems to be making people blind to using their common sense  -- every pointer by anyone being objective -- says he is in trouble --big trouble . Look at the cast who has been around him -- with the benefit of hindsight  -- not exactly the people too many would choose.Look at the people he admires -- not too many people agree with Trump. Then look objectively at Trump himself -that then says it all.
In relation to Manafort --think about why he showed up in Trump orbit-- and the connections both ways that made it happen  .Look at the one issue TRump/Manafort had removed from GOP platform and ask yourself whose interests that was in?
It is beyond credible that all that was coincidental.
Trump will not survive .FULL STOP . The issue is the damage he does and causes in the meanwhile -- to the US itself -- and the greater world at large.
Meanwhile --
 

Pressure on Manafort grows as feds track more income, possible money laundering



Two sources familiar with the inquiry tell McClatchy that investigators are working to confirm information indicating that Manafort and the consulting firms he led earned between $80 million and $100 million over a decade from pro-Moscow Ukrainian and Russian clients.

Mueller’s expanded foc

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article168495837.html
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline ML

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #182 on: August 23, 2017, 07:36:02 AM »

Two sources familiar with the inquiry tell McClatchy that investigators are working to confirm information indicating that Manafort and the consulting firms he led earned between $80 million and $100 million over a decade from pro-Moscow Ukrainian and Russian clients.

Mueller’s expanded foc

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article168495837.html

Hey look, no one is more pro-Ukrainian here than me.

But I just try to discuss things logically.

There is nothing wrong with any consultant working for any client.
They don't even have to believe their client is the best or most worthy candidate; just as lawyers don't have to be concerned if their client is guilty or not.

It's completely silly now for investigations into what persons or countries Trump or anyone else had dealings with in the past.

I have had meetings with dozens of Russian companies and Russian executives in the past and earned money from those meetings.  Now I would walk across the street to avoid them.
Should my previous meetings be held against me when I run for office?
Ban shredded cheese. Make America Grate Again

Online BillyB

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #183 on: August 23, 2017, 10:58:57 AM »

The IRS and feds can find mistakes on anybody's tax return and fine them or threaten jail time. When a guy like Manafort deals with a lot of money, there will be mistakes. The feds are trying to find mistakes so they can get Manafort to agree to cooperate. Doesn't mean Manafort has anything on Trump or made mistakes calculating the taxes he owed on purpose to save himself a few buck. I've hired CPAs to do my taxes and the IRS comes back correcting them or years later saying they detected a mistake and now I owe them money plus interest. Professionals make mistakes even when doing simple tax returns.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

 

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