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Author Topic: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy  (Read 18738 times)

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Online msmob

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #175 on: July 05, 2017, 12:22:58 AM »


It is clear - to me - that anyone choosing such a 'lobbyist' was playing with fire - given their background ...

An interesting thread, about someone I'd never heard of and I surprised anyone would want to 'defend' - based on their former client list - they followed the money - rather than principle.

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Offline ML

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #176 on: August 15, 2017, 08:16:03 PM »
An interesting thread, about someone I'd never heard of and I surprised anyone would want to 'defend' - based on their former client list - they followed the money - rather than principle.

I didn't read all this thread, but just a word here about this comment.

Lawyers (for instance) quite often do (and sometimes are required to) defend those whom they don't like or don't agree with.

I assume the same applies to people like Manafort. 
i.e.  He will work for anyone who pays him.

So those who need help don't need to see who he has worked for in the past.  They are only concerned about his effectiveness.
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Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #177 on: August 15, 2017, 08:21:25 PM »
So those who need help don't need to see who he has worked for in the past.  They are only concerned about his effectiveness.

Of course but, to find that out, they WOULD have to see who he had worked for - and how effective he was in what he was supposed to do for those previous employers.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #178 on: August 15, 2017, 08:48:04 PM »
I didn't read all this thread, but just a word here about this comment.

Lawyers (for instance) quite often do (and sometimes are required to) defend those whom they don't like or don't agree with.

I assume the same applies to people like Manafort. 
i.e.  He will work for anyone who pays him.

So those who need help don't need to see who he has worked for in the past.  They are only concerned about his effectiveness.


He is being investigated for money laundering. 


I think there is a difference between defending a criminal because you believe in the rule of law, and advancing the personal interests of dictators who have often killed thousands or more, and usually have stolen huge sums of money from their countries' treasuries.
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Online msmob

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #179 on: August 15, 2017, 11:07:29 PM »
Agree with Boethius, here ..  The analogy with lawyers is a poor one - IMHO.

Given the time taken to build a case - I'd be surprised if anything incriminating was found at his home.. The standard practice is to  state the computers were leased and wiped after ....Russia 2018 World Cup Football campaign..

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Offline ML

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #180 on: August 19, 2017, 09:06:50 AM »
I think there is some degree of parallel between lawyers and other professions.

But lawyers often get a pass on their actions, and rightly so given our legal system based on idea everyone entitled to defense.

However, others should also get some benefit of the doubt in their actions.

There was a locally famous case here in my university town.

A finance professor was hired to provide expert testimony against the state education department in a case involving funding of school districts.

This professor was then called into the Provosts office and lectured about the appropriateness of his actions in arguing against the state.

The finance professor then mentioned how one of the most prominent law professors at the university had several times represented employees in lawsuits against this university.

The Provost became unnerved, mouth dry and fumbled around with words trying to say that he really didn't mind what this finance professor had done and had really just wanted to discuss how the case was progressing.

It's just one example of the double standards allowed.
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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #181 on: August 23, 2017, 01:44:01 AM »
ML -- you are getting a few things confused here. Acting as a consultant or a lawyer can put you in awkward places that is fair comment -- but the wider information says something else was happening here.
Supporting Trump seems to be making people blind to using their common sense  -- every pointer by anyone being objective -- says he is in trouble --big trouble . Look at the cast who has been around him -- with the benefit of hindsight  -- not exactly the people too many would choose.Look at the people he admires -- not too many people agree with Trump. Then look objectively at Trump himself -that then says it all.
In relation to Manafort --think about why he showed up in Trump orbit-- and the connections both ways that made it happen  .Look at the one issue TRump/Manafort had removed from GOP platform and ask yourself whose interests that was in?
It is beyond credible that all that was coincidental.
Trump will not survive .FULL STOP . The issue is the damage he does and causes in the meanwhile -- to the US itself -- and the greater world at large.
Meanwhile --
 

Pressure on Manafort grows as feds track more income, possible money laundering



Two sources familiar with the inquiry tell McClatchy that investigators are working to confirm information indicating that Manafort and the consulting firms he led earned between $80 million and $100 million over a decade from pro-Moscow Ukrainian and Russian clients.

Mueller’s expanded foc

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article168495837.html
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline ML

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #182 on: August 23, 2017, 07:36:02 AM »

Two sources familiar with the inquiry tell McClatchy that investigators are working to confirm information indicating that Manafort and the consulting firms he led earned between $80 million and $100 million over a decade from pro-Moscow Ukrainian and Russian clients.

Mueller’s expanded foc

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article168495837.html

Hey look, no one is more pro-Ukrainian here than me.

But I just try to discuss things logically.

There is nothing wrong with any consultant working for any client.
They don't even have to believe their client is the best or most worthy candidate; just as lawyers don't have to be concerned if their client is guilty or not.

It's completely silly now for investigations into what persons or countries Trump or anyone else had dealings with in the past.

I have had meetings with dozens of Russian companies and Russian executives in the past and earned money from those meetings.  Now I would walk across the street to avoid them.
Should my previous meetings be held against me when I run for office?
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Offline BillyB

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #183 on: August 23, 2017, 10:58:57 AM »

The IRS and feds can find mistakes on anybody's tax return and fine them or threaten jail time. When a guy like Manafort deals with a lot of money, there will be mistakes. The feds are trying to find mistakes so they can get Manafort to agree to cooperate. Doesn't mean Manafort has anything on Trump or made mistakes calculating the taxes he owed on purpose to save himself a few buck. I've hired CPAs to do my taxes and the IRS comes back correcting them or years later saying they detected a mistake and now I owe them money plus interest. Professionals make mistakes even when doing simple tax returns.
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Offline BillyB

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #185 on: October 30, 2017, 09:00:43 AM »
Charges listed below. Some people may be disappointed that there's nothing that pertains to Trump in there.


http://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download
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Offline GQBlues

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #186 on: October 30, 2017, 09:38:37 AM »
Charges listed below. Some people may be disappointed that there's nothing that pertains to Trump in there.


That simple fact doesn't matter to these numb nuts. Nor does it matter and a concern that all/most of the unmasking were prompted by the unsubstantiated, Hillary/DNC - funded political smearing, *dossier* that caused this year long stupidity and were gobbled up by the liberal media and its gullible followers.


Nor would they admit that Manafort was closely working with the likes of the Podesta brothers related to the Uranium One scandal.


http://www.oann.com/podesta-group-manafort-mediated-russia-obama-wh-uranium-one-deal/
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 10:11:14 AM by GQBlues »
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Online msmob

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #187 on: October 30, 2017, 11:45:28 AM »
Jeez, GCB

Next you'll still be telling us Tiger will win more Championships than he won before he went off the rails .. ;D

'Numb nuts' - to me are US citizens who voted at all, given the paucity of your candidates- and who still think the 'Emperor is wearing clothes'

The current incumbent is a walking disaster area - surrounded by disaster areas

Methinks you are being a trifle hasty in being so dismissive of the 'distance' these disaster areas are from the house

HINT: I get my news from many sources and the BBC is not a 'liberal' US news agency
 
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Offline GQBlues

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #188 on: October 30, 2017, 01:04:12 PM »
Jeez, GCB

Next you'll still be telling us Tiger will win more Championships than he won before he went off the rails .. ;D

'Numb nuts' - to me are US citizens who voted at all, given the paucity of your candidates- and who still think the 'Emperor is wearing clothes'

The current incumbent is a walking disaster area - surrounded by disaster areas

Methinks you are being a trifle hasty in being so dismissive of the 'distance' these disaster areas are from the house

HINT: I get my news from many sources and the BBC is not a 'liberal' US news agency


Translation: Moby still believes the 'dossier' is legitimate, and there in fact is a clear evidence that Trump did collude with Russia in winning the election and Hillary have nothing to do with it. Yup, we get that. Glad you fished that out of BBC's reporting.


 :rolleyes:


As for walking disaster, let's see..in less than a year ISIS (Obama's proverbial 'JV Team) is all but wiped-out in their previously held strong-hold. GDP's in the 3 percentile. Labor participation is on an all-time high. Nasdaq / Dow Jones on a record-breaking trend..


Personal anecdote: Our company, at last quarter report ( and since election), had amassed nearly (threefold - 275%) of our annual revenue. My team alone had turned down additional work as we could no longer find labor & equipment available to meet our schedule. Private investors/investment are tripping each other in our region trying to get projects rolling, etc..


Just because your silly *BBC* doesn't/couldn't report anything without some silly Trump-thrashing garbage in it, and mostly *rely* on US's liberal garbage, doesn't denote actual reality here.


You should be happy, considering the UK is our #1 dependent on anything and everything since WWII's dust settled down. And one which you cannot deny. Fact of the matter is, all we really have to do since is tell you folks and your queen how high to jump.


 :P

Keep trying...as for Tiger, DAH MAN!. Go ask Rory et all and see what he thinks'feel about THE Dude!
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 01:07:39 PM by GQBlues »
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Offline GQBlues

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #189 on: October 30, 2017, 02:56:31 PM »
A good example of Fake News continuing itself despite the recent revelations.

A Reuters report released today is titled: Two ex-Trump aides charged in Russia probe, third pleads guilty

The article contains statement to (a fodder read for the numb nut readers at large) maintain Trump is somehow tied into any, if subtly, criminal activities by persons in his campaign team despite those actions were committed years before becoming part of Trump's campaign - and more importantly - during their association with Hillary Clinton/Clintons.

The opening salvo reads:

Quote
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Federal investigators probing Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election charged President Donald Trump's former campaign manager Paul Manafort and another aide, Rick Gates, with money laundering on Monday.

A third former Trump adviser, George Papadopoulos, pleaded guilty in early October to lying to the FBI, it was announced on Monday.

It was a sharp escalation of U.S. Justice Department Special Counsel Robert Mueller's five-month-old investigation into alleged Russian efforts to tilt the election in Trump's favor, and into potential collusion by Trump aides....

Three short sentences filled with alleged criminal activities and charges by others, while attaching Trump's name 4x alongside them.

Then there is this itsy-bitsy benign one sentence nestled neatly within that said:

"...Neither Trump nor his campaign was mentioned in the indictment against the pair. The charges, some going back more than a decade, center on Manafort's work for Ukraine...."

Without so much as a citation, or quote, on who made that statement and precisely which charges fell on 'years prior' to their association/hiring, or what charges, if any, were committed 'during'.

- This is the type of garbage all you numb nuts hang on to with your gullibility.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-charges-indictment/two-ex-trump-aides-charged-in-russia-probe-third-pleads-guilty-idUSKBN1CZ1KT
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 02:59:51 PM by GQBlues »
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Online calmissile

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #190 on: October 30, 2017, 03:28:45 PM »
A good example of what the anti-Trumpers use for news to troll the forum!
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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #191 on: October 30, 2017, 04:14:21 PM »
The ridiculous comments of some Trumpaphiles has become more obvious to any fair minded observer.
For the record-these charges are only a small part of the overall investigation. The connection of these individuals to the Trump campaign is a matter of record.
If there was ever a time for the Trump justifiers to SHUT UP-- this would be it !

The charges do directly relate to the thread title here.

What It Means: The Indictment of Manafort and Gates

Defendants PAUL J. MANAFORT, JR., (MANAFORT) and RICHARD W. GATES III (GATES) served for years as political consultants and lobbyists. Between at least 2006 and 2015, MANAFORT and GATES acted as unregistered agents of the Government of Ukraine, the Party of Regions (a Ukrainian political party whose leader Viktor Yanukovych was President from 2010 to 2014), Yanukovych, and the Opposition Bloc (a successor to the Party of Regions that formed in 2014 when Yanukovych fled to Russia). MANAFORT and GATES generated tens of millions of dollars in income as a result of their Ukraine work. In order to hide Ukraine payments from United States authorities, from approximately 2006 through at least 2016, MANAFORT and GATES laundered the money through scores of United States and foreign corporations, partnerships and bank accounts.

The opening paragraph of the indictment lays out a narrative framework for understanding the complex details subsequent pages delve into. In brief, prosecutors contend that Mr. Manafort and Mr. Gates violated a law that requires Americans to register and disclose activities undertaken as agents of a foreign power, and then that they took steps to launder tens of millions of dollars in income from that work and to evade paying taxes on it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/special-counsel-indictments.html?action=click&contentCollection=us&module=NextInCollection&region=Footer&pgtype=article&version=newsevent&rref=collection%2Fnews-event%2Frussian-election-hacking
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #192 on: October 30, 2017, 05:21:39 PM »
...Nor does it matter and a concern that all/most of the unmasking were prompted by the unsubstantiated, Hillary/DNC - funded political smearing, *dossier* that caused this year long stupidity and were gobbled up by the liberal media and its gullible followers.

Sure, the Democrats eventually produced the dossier - but you seem to conveniently forget that it was originally conceived and funded by Republicans who didn't want Trump as a candidate in the first place.

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #193 on: October 30, 2017, 05:28:41 PM »

Translation: Moby still believes the 'dossier' is legitimate, and there in fact is a clear evidence that Trump did collude with Russia in winning the election and Hillary have nothing to do with it. Yup, we get that. Glad you fished that out of BBC's reporting.

NO, this is like deasling with a TellyTubby !

I'm not at all certain that certain dossiers are factual... I AM - however certain that the 'gentleman' who forms the title of THIS thread has a lousy track record of 'politicians' he promoted... and dubious funding sources - let alone money laundering...

A pretty poor attempt at dodging reality...


 :rolleyes:


You should be happy, considering the UK is our #1 dependent on anything and everything since WWII's dust settled down. And one which you cannot deny. Fact of the matter is, all we really have to do since is tell you folks and your queen how high to jump.

I can only assume this 'republican' stance ( as opposed to monarchist !) is because you seek to 'rile' ? ...   

IF you were paying attention to reality - as appertaining to US/UK relations - you'd know that 'we' haven't obeyed you by having the 'cheek' to leave the EU - as the CIA will need to bug EU leaders phones (again )- rather than relying on Brits spilling..





Keep trying...as for Tiger, DAH MAN!. Go ask Rory et all and see what he thinks'feel about THE Dude![/font]

Rory's from my home town and went to the same school - wouldn't want him to 'hurt your feelinz' - with a few home truths ;)


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Online calmissile

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #194 on: October 30, 2017, 05:30:36 PM »
No one has forgot anything!  The opposition to Trump by some Republicans did fund opposition research.  So what, it happens every election?  The Republican opposition research did not include paying for a phony/fake report with outlandish, untrue, personal allegations against Trump.  That was the Democrat rats in Hillary's camp!
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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #195 on: October 30, 2017, 05:35:57 PM »
Sure, the Democrats eventually produced the dossier - but you seem to conveniently forget that it was originally conceived and funded by Republicans who didn't want Trump as a candidate in the first place.


...but never got it rolling. It wasn't until the 'hiring' of Christopher Steele, the proverbial British 'spy', by none other than the DNC and Hillary Clinton, that it grew legs and started waffling through the numb nut mainstream.


Don't get me wrong, I never dismissed the NeverTrump conservative idiots for their part. The GOP and DNC are two-sides of the same coin. Largely the reason of my support to POTUS Trump to drain the current DC swamp. The very first thing McConnell told Trump after the election was to stop the 'Drain the Swamp' talk. Even Jimmy carter admitted that he's never seen this much flak against any sitting POTUS that Trump is facing from the media, and both political parties.


The fact Trump is facing these idiots head-on, hopeful, if for nothing else, to give the American gullible and numb nuts the realities of our current political landscape.


Politicians demonize the 1%er during their campaign, but it is those very same guys that finances their political careers except the liberals and numb nuts gobble up whatever the media feeds them.
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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #196 on: October 30, 2017, 05:42:10 PM »
Sure, the Democrats eventually produced the dossier - but you seem to conveniently forget that it was originally conceived and funded by Republicans who didn't want Trump as a candidate in the first place.


You apparently didn't get what was said in the Trump thread about facts on the dossier or ignoring facts that don't appeal to you. The dossier that was distributed was not what a Republican wanted to pay for. Republicans had no intention to fabricate lies and distribute tabloid trash about Trump. The Democrats didn't care about truth, they wanted to win the election by taking away Trump votes so they morphed the dossier into their liking. This is not surprising considering emails disclosed they had planned a smear campaign full of lies against Bernie Sanders should he get close to the Democratic nomination.
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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #197 on: October 30, 2017, 05:49:23 PM »
I listened to a talk radio show on the way home tonight.  A college Law professor made some interesting comments that I had not heard yet about the indictment.  1. The term 'money laundering' is normally reserved for funds that were acquired illegally.  He implied that the term is now being used as an inflammatory term toward Manaford when there is no evidence in the indictment that suggests that the money was illegally obtained.  2. The typical handling of the failure to register charges is normally to tell the party to register and at most it is a misdemeanor.  3.  If the charges are tax evasion, there should have been an indictment for tax evasion and it is not included in the charges.

Don't know if this professor is a nut case or not.  I am not a lawyer, but it does give some food for thought.  Maybe Boe can react  to his comments.

I doubt anyone on the forum has any sympathy for Manaford (including me) considering he was on the wrong side of the Ukraine political system.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 05:52:50 PM by calmissile »
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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #198 on: October 30, 2017, 05:55:05 PM »
NO, this is like deasling with a TellyTubby !

I'm not at all certain that certain dossiers are factual... I AM - however certain that the 'gentleman' who forms the title of THIS thread has a lousy track record of 'politicians' he promoted... and dubious funding sources - let alone money laundering...

A pretty poor attempt at dodging reality...


 :rolleyes: 


LMAO! The only bloke doing the dodging is you. I'm sure the fact you're completely IGNORANT of what is actually happening INSIDE our border, and not rely on what media is feeding you on your version of reality, may in fact give you an excuse...but puuullleeezzzee, spare me your ignorance and feed it to someone else.


Moreover, as for the other tidbits I stated, tell me what is the current state of ISIS's stronghold again? And what is the latest Dow/Nasdaq closing compared to what it was November 8, 2016? Let's see who is dodging? LMAO!

Quote
I can only assume this 'republican' stance ( as opposed to monarchist !) is because you seek to 'rile' ? ...


Incoherent. That's what ASSumptions will cause you.  I've no need to be riling you about your reality. The fact is that that useless that hag is  sucking up most of your monies so she can live like a fat cat, and you're resigned to a silly notion it s *ceremonial*. LMAO! That's your money and reality so it's no skin off my nose.

Quote
IF you were paying attention to reality - as appertaining to US/UK relations - you'd know that 'we' haven't obeyed you by having the 'cheek' to leave the EU - as the CIA will need to bug EU leaders phones (again )- rather than relying on Brits spilling..


Face it. Without the US, and all your colonies your monarchs and society were raping and gouging, the UK is utterly irrelevant. A freeloading state no different than those they colonize before. Illustrative of that fact is as soon as Trump said Brexit will be good for yah, your population followed like herded sheep to the polls. LOL.


For the record, as far as BREXIT is concerned, I couldn't give a rat's arse about it. So if you're so tuned that it isn't right for Brits, go to Stuart's board and have it with those other Brits that are constantly ridiculing you about your conviction to this matter.


 :P

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Rory's from my home town and went to the same school - wouldn't want him to 'hurt your feelinz' - with a few home truths ;)


WTF does "Rory's from my home town" earned you? Tiger's from my home town, too...so what's your point? Is you're claim to fame that you went to school with someone who likely don't even know you exist, Moby?  That's pretty pathetic, man. You poor chap! LMAO!.


http://golfweek.com/2017/09/28/rory-mcilroy-tiger-woods-doesnt-have-anything-to-prove-to-anyone/
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 06:05:40 PM by GQBlues »
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Online JayH

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Re: Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy
« Reply #199 on: October 30, 2017, 06:03:28 PM »
I listened to a talk radio show on the way home tonight.  A college Law professor made some interesting comments that I had not heard yet about the indictment.  1. The term 'money laundering' is normally reserved for funds that were acquired illegally.  He implied that the term is now being used as an inflammatory term toward Manaford when there is no evidence in the indictment that suggests that the money was illegally obtained.  2. The typical handling of the failure to register charges is normally to tell the party to register and at most it is a misdemeanor.  3.  If the charges are tax evasion, there should have been an indictment for tax evasion and it is not included in the charges.

Don't know if this professor is a nut case or not.  I am not a lawyer, but it does give some food for thought.  Maybe Boe can react  to his comments.

I doubt anyone on the forum has any sympathy for Manaford (including me) considering he was on the wrong side of the Ukraine political system.

You need to listen to a different radio station.
Fundamentally -- that "college professor" is wrong . Seeking to use semantics to make ends meet an incorrect conclusion.
Even by  your own knowledge -- you do know these funds were not legally obtained. They are and have been to subject of legal action in Ukraine.
You spend time complaining about media bias -- clearly "your" radio station has trotted out a talking head to support some narrative they want to meet. The Trump media is in high gear to divert discussion and facts at this time .
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

 

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