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Author Topic: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'  (Read 82049 times)

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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2012, 05:15:07 PM »
I thought a poll might have been in order ;).
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Offline TwoBitBandit

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2012, 10:59:31 PM »
OK, but the book source is in HTML - as required by the compiler that we used - so that route is not practical, I think ::) .


If your source is in HTML, did you consider using http://calibre-ebook.com/ ?  I've published a couple of ebooks in other forums using HTML as my source and targeting .prc.  The advantage that the resulting file can be read on virtually everything: kindle, ipad, windows, mac, whatever.  Forgive me for saying this, but a win32 binary is a really obnoxious format.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 02:08:01 AM by TwoBitBandit »

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2012, 07:28:23 AM »
If your source is in HTML, did you consider using http://calibre-ebook.com/ ?
No, it wasn't among the candidates considered at the time.

Anyway, I downloaded and started toying with it. I asked to "Add books" and selected all the files (HTML, JPG, etc.) from the book source directory. The result was one ZIP 'book' for each file ::).

Quote
I've published a couple of ebooks in other forums using HTML as my source and targeting .prc. 
From a SINGLE HTML file?
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Offline Admin

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2012, 08:20:44 AM »

If your source is in HTML, did you consider using http://calibre-ebook.com/ ?  I've published a couple of ebooks in other forums using HTML as my source and targeting .prc.  The advantage that the resulting file can be read on virtually everything: kindle, ipad, windows, mac, whatever.  Forgive me for saying this, but a win32 binary is a really obnoxious format.

TBB,

What is so "obnoxious" about it?

As I wrote upthread, we did a good deal of checking into various authoring programs at that time, and ALL of them had drawbacks of one sort or another. The simple fact is - for the VAST majority of our readers, they can access this valuable information in 2 to 3 easy steps - click on the link (upthread) to the download page - download the file and save it to a directory of your choice - click on the file. That is it. It is VERY reliable and simple.

Admittedly, those who run on Apple platforms will see things differently - but as we looked at our demographics back then - and even now - that is not a very large proportion of our member community. Further, we were under the impression that OS emulators exist for non-Windows platforms that would enable all our members to utilize the output.

- Dan

Offline TwoBitBandit

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2012, 01:50:03 AM »
Anyway, I downloaded and started toying with it.

Sorry, I goofed. The tool I actually use is Mobipocket Creator

From a SINGLE HTML file?

If you have images or other files, you normally link to them, and an appropriate ebook compiler will read in the linked filed and compile them as part of the ebook.  The question "From a SINGLE HTML file?" doesn't seem to me to be asking the right question since HTML links tend to form a hierarchy of content.

I've written a few ebooks, and the process I follow is roughly:
1.  Write the book in a word processor
2.  Paste the text into a text editor (like notebook on Windows), but use the .html file extension
3.  Add HTML tags as needed to make everything format/look right
4.  View the saved file in a web browser and make sure it all basically looks right
5.  Create a Mobipocket creator book and import the HTML
6.  Create a table of contents and make sure it looks right
7.  Build (compile) the book and make sure it looks OK on a variety of ebook readers.  (I usually test Windows, Android and Kindle)
8.  Repeat all steps above until I'm happy with the look of it across platforms.

As an example, I created a quick ebook using Mobipocked Creator and attached it as a zip file.  The only file that really needs to distributed to consumers is the .prc file: the rest of it is source code.

TBB, What is so "obnoxious" about it?

I'm speaking from the perspective of a software professional.  Good software should be transparent and elegant.  By binding the content and the delivery mechanism together, you're taking away my choice of platforms to consume your content.  You're saying, "You want my content?  Then take my platform!  You'll eat this gruel and you'll like it!"

Not only are you doing that, but you're doing it pointlessly.  It's one thing to write an application that requires heavy use of platform-specific features (such as a complex game that makes heavy use of video or OpenGL): in that case you have to rely on that particular features of that platform.  That's the opposite of what you have here: the problem of how to deliver books that are portable across a wide variety of platforms is a substantially-solved problem.

Of course, the counter-argument is, "but what's wrong with Windows?"  What if that's not how I consume content?  I read tons of ebooks.  Even though I could, I don't read any of them on Windows.  I read them on Kindle or Android, simply because that's what fits into my life.  I read them on airplanes, in cafes, in bars, while I'm in lines, in elevators, wherever.  By (implicitly) taking the position "You'll eat this gruel and you'll like it!" you've taken from me the choice of how it's most convenient for me to consume the content you've created.

It's pretty clear that the creators of the tool you've used don't really understand anything about elegance.  Their web site looks like it was put together by a high school freshman during spring break.  Its design reminds me vaguely of Herb Talek from 'WKRP in Cincinnati', who often wore plaid suits that could only be described as 'obnoxious'.

I don't really expect anyone who isn't in my industry to understand that argument, for the same reason I wouldn't expect anyone who wasn't in the clothing industry to know the difference between a fused and a canvassed suit.

The answer to the question 'What is so "obnoxious" about it?' is that you're telling me how I should consume your content, and doing it shamelessly.

To be clear, I appreciate and admire the effort you (the plural 'you', meaning Dan, Sandro, and all the contributors).  It's great that you're trying to help out people new to this endeavor to find what they're looking for.  I don't want it to seem like I'm dissing the effort or the content.  Cetainly, there's a lack of clear, concise, useful and honest information for guys that are starting on their search for a partner from the FSU.  It's the format and delivery that I'm objecting to.

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2012, 06:44:37 AM »
The question "From a SINGLE HTML file?" doesn't seem to me to be asking the right question since HTML links tend to form a hierarchy of content.
The question was right, connsidering the behaviour of the tool that you initially suggested :(:
Quote
Sorry, I goofed.

Quote
The tool I actually use is Mobipocket Creator.
OK, I downloaded it and shall try it out. 
Quote
If you have images or other files, you normally link to them, and an appropriate ebook compiler will read in the linked filed and compile them as part of the ebook.
Obviously ::).
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2012, 09:39:42 AM »
:OK, I downloaded it and shall try it out.
Well I did, and the result was not much satisfactory, the book formatting is all messed up and I think it'd require too much rework on the original HTML code for a decent result :-\.
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Offline TwoBitBandit

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2012, 11:07:07 AM »
Well I did, and the result was not much satisfactory, the book formatting is all messed up and I think it'd require too much rework on the original HTML code for a decent result :-\ .


You're almost certainly right.  Writing good, platform-agnostic HTML takes time, especially if you haven't done it before.  I spent hours getting it right in the first ebook I wrote.

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2012, 12:19:09 PM »
Writing good, platform-agnostic HTML takes time, especially if you haven't done it before.
Not sure what that means ::). I learned HTML after learning/using in the 1990s the IBM BookMaster, a simplified version of SCRIPT/VS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Generalized_Markup_Language) for our mainframes that we had adopted then to produce our manuals.

Initially I was surprised by seeing that the HTML tags were identical, but I should not have since IBM's presence on standards committees was very influential then, and when the matter arose of text-formatting standards, they probably said: "Let's not reinvent the wheel, we already have a proven working tool for the publishing industry, let's use that." ;)
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Offline 55North

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2012, 02:07:15 AM »
Many thanks.  I'll give that a go later.
 
Wow.  I just read it.  3 + years later.
 
That's because I've been busy doing it, not reading about it!
 
Most Mac users will have upgraded everything, as I have - to include a Windows partition, so no problems there.

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2012, 08:40:42 AM »
 
Wow.  I just read it.  3 + years later.
 
That's because I've been busy doing it, not reading about it!
 
Most Mac users will have upgraded everything, as I have - to include a Windows partition, so no problems there.

I'm a mac user and usually fairly prolific but, I gave up on it. What did you do?

Offline 55North

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2012, 12:19:48 PM »
I'm a mac user and usually fairly prolific but, I gave up on it. What did you do?


Hi FP.
 
When I last read this thread 3 years ago, my 'surfin' Safari was a Tiger I think, on a half-football.  Now, I'm surfin' Safari on a Lion with a duo core under the bonnet and a 27" windscreen.  In order that my wife's Xperia Mini can speak to its mothership, I had to load VM Fusion and Windoze 7.  (iPhone for me, of course).
 
I simply downloaded the infamous exe file to my (Apple) desktop, hit open, and hey-presto, my  Mac opened Windoze on top of my Apple perfectly displaying the tome.
   
(Did you do iCloud yet?  Bit the bullet and made the crossing yesterday.  Interesting!  That you can shoot a photo anywhere out there, and Alla can immediately see it on the screen at home is, as we used to say, pretty far out.)


 


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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #62 on: March 19, 2012, 07:03:12 AM »

Hi FP.
 
When I last read this thread 3 years ago, my 'surfin' Safari was a Tiger I think, on a half-football.  Now, I'm surfin' Safari on a Lion with a duo core under the bonnet and a 27" windscreen.  In order that my wife's Xperia Mini can speak to its mothership, I had to load VM Fusion and Windoze 7.  (iPhone for me, of course).
 
I simply downloaded the infamous exe file to my (Apple) desktop, hit open, and hey-presto, my  Mac opened Windoze on top of my Apple perfectly displaying the tome.
   
(Did you do iCloud yet?  Bit the bullet and made the crossing yesterday.  Interesting!  That you can shoot a photo anywhere out there, and Alla can immediately see it on the screen at home is, as we used to say, pretty far out.)

Hi 55!

I am still running Tiger and I am iCloud'ng on the iPhone but not yet on the laptop.

Offline OmegaSupreme

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2012, 04:21:38 AM »
Apparently I'm a bit late to this party, but just noticed this ebook today. Thanks for making it free!

However, I have to echo some of the complaints about the choice of format. There's no way I'm going to dive into this anytime soon, as I refuse to do any heavy reading sitting in front of a computer. Considering the proliferation of e-readers and other mobile devices, it would've made far more sense to release this as an epub and/or mobi file. Any chance of this happening anytime in the near future? It shouldn't be that difficult to do, and would guarantee wider distribution than an .exe file.

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2012, 11:17:13 AM »
Considering the proliferation of e-readers and other mobile devices, it would've made far more sense to release this as an epub and/or mobi file. Any chance of this happening anytime in the near future?
OmegaSupreme, after your post I did try out the Mobilpocket Creator on our HTML source files, and the result is rather messed up compared to the original :(.

Our single HTML pages are converted to several, and their formatting is all askew - apparently the book  .CSS file is ignored :-\.

Quote
It shouldn't be that difficult to do, and would guarantee wider distribution than an .exe file.
No walk in the park, though ;). So, unless somebody comes up with some not-too-cumbersome fixes, no joy :wallbash:.
Milan's "Duomo"

Offline SFandEE

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2012, 02:56:18 PM »
Admittedly, those who run on Apple platforms will see things differently - but as we looked at our demographics back then - and even now - that is not a very large proportion of our member community. Further, we were under the impression that OS emulators exist for non-Windows platforms that would enable all our members to utilize the output.

- Dan


Had to chuckle--the PC crowd is a good nickname for a lot of the RWD Heroes that post.  I am a Mac user, so I will look forward to checking out the book on my platform.  Let you know how it looks.
"I don't feel tardy"

Offline Mark Davis

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2012, 03:12:05 PM »
More than an ebook, his "Men of the West, Women from the East" is like an encyclopedia of the best from RWD content and commentary.  It's like a resource more than a casual read.  I hope you can get it to work.
Best wishes for your success,
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Offline newjason

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2012, 05:30:05 PM »
I know this is an old thread but...

I also tried to download the "book"

When I scanned with AVAST it said it was clean.

Let me just say that opening an Executable file from an untrusted source is against the rules of safe computing. ( my rules btw ).

Your file has no valid signature, and no certificate of trust.
But against my better judgement I ran it anyway.
I ran it inside of the AVAST sandbox to be on the safe side.
Both times when I open this MOTW.exe file , I get a BSOD.  And I get those,  almost never. :(

What is it about this "book" that it needs to be in a Executable wrapper?
Is it simply a collection of thread posts with commentary or something more?
I am curious and would love to read this book, but since keeping my computer safe is more important to  me, I will not experiment any further with the book in it's current format.

Is it possible to set up a thread to display the book? or even a website or blog?

The counter on the  download page for the book as of right now shows only 215 hits :(   2 of them are me.
215 people seems like a very very small number compared to the amount of people who visit this forum every day.   For example,  I started an introduction thread  Hi, I'm Jason,  back in March.  That thread has over 4480 views as of today.
Now I highly doubt that the content in that thread is any more interesting than what is contained in MOTH/WOTE.  So it seems fair to assume that it is about the method of delivery.

If your goal is to reach a wider audience,  IMO it will not happen in this current format.  :(

With all the time and effort put into this project, It is a shame to see it un-available to so many of us who want to  read it while still maintaining a safe computing environment.

Maybe a CERT of Trust would be a good option?  they are only a few hundred a year, and I think some will even issue you one for a free period to evaluate if it is worth it.

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2012, 05:49:31 PM »
Newjason, I think you can trust the book even without a certificate/signature, I can assure you that we put nothing harmful in it, as your AVAST confirmed ;). As for your BSOD, what OS platform are you running it on?

What is it about this "book" that it needs to be in a Executable wrapper?]
It was the only alternative available at the time.
Quote
Is it simply a collection of thread posts with commentary or something more?
More, thread posts are only offered as references for further reading in the topics covered.
Is it possible to set up a thread to display the book?
I guess that'd cause the same problem, it being an .EXE ::).
Quote
If your goal is to reach a wider audience,  IMO it will not happen in this current format.  :(With all the time and effort put into this project, It is a shame to see it un-available to so many of us who want to  read it while still maintaining a safe computing environment.
I've tried converting it to a .PDF before, and to a .MOBI today, with the same unsatisfactory results :(.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that all who claim it'd be easy to change it to a different, better format did not actually experience such a conversion process themselves :-\.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 06:20:30 PM by SANDRO43 »
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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #69 on: May 13, 2012, 06:08:06 PM »
Quote from Sandro..
I'm becoming more and more convinced that all who claim it'd be easy to change it to a different, easier format did not actually experience such a conversion process themselves

You probably right, no one has the source or even a portion of it to try it.  I have to agree that a .PDF format would be wonderful.  Based on a feedback of only 8 responses, I am wondering how many are actually able to read it.  It is a fantastic resource.  Since  it is free, I would expect it to have thousands of downloads by now.

Have you given any thought to solving the .PDF conversion problem?  Perhaps by asking Adobe or one of our forum experts on Adobe products.  Since it is so much trouble to fix the HTML code, perhaps Adobe has an answer that would make it easier than rewriting the code.  It might be in Adobe's interest to make it work.   :)
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #70 on: May 13, 2012, 06:15:32 PM »
Have you given any thought to solving the .PDF conversion problem?  Perhaps by asking Adobe or one of our forum experts on Adobe products.  Since it is so much trouble to fix the HTML code, perhaps Adobe has an answer that would make it easier than rewriting the code.  It might be in Adobe's interest to make it work.
I doubt they'd be interested in such small fry. IIRC, I tried 3 different conversion tools, all giving more or less the same formatting problems. My SUBJECTIVE impression is that a text rather than HTML input file might give better results ::).

As I may have hinted earlier, I'm always game to give it a try, provided it doesn't not involve A LOT of additional work ;).

P.S.: On further thought, Newjason's alternative of having the book as an RWD long thread might be worth considering, it'd mean shifting most of the headache to Dan :D.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 06:26:31 PM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #71 on: May 13, 2012, 07:03:45 PM »
Downloaded instantly with no problems - Windows7 and IE9.

As I wrote all those months ago...and a tremendous font of information it is.

Offline newjason

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #72 on: May 13, 2012, 07:51:25 PM »
Newjason, I think you can trust the book even without a certificate/signature, I can assure you that we put nothing harmful in it, as your AVAST confirmed ;). As for your BSOD, what OS platform are you running it on?
It was the only alternative available at the time. More, thread posts are only offered as references for further reading in the topics covered.I guess that'd cause the same problem, it being an .EXE ::).I've tried converting it to a .PDF before, and to a .MOBI today, with the same unsatisfactory results :(.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that all who claim it'd be easy to change it to a different, better format did not actually experience such a conversion process themselves :-\.

I am still running on WINXP SP3 with all updates and patches current.
Also I've tried all the things listed on the BSOD and still get the same Stop Message.
My motherboard is less than a year old and I have 169GB free of a WD 320 GB HD.
4GB RAM.

About platform conversion,  LOL  yes you are right about that  :)

I will test it our of the sandbox, against all my better judgements.
It's not you or this site that I have trust issues with. It is the unscrupulousness of individuals who can take such a file like your e book and modify and re-distribute it and make it do all kinds of nasty things.
If It were modified, we would have no way of knowing that it was or was not safe.

But, I will give it another try because I know the amount of effort and work by you and all involved was a colossal task, and I think it should be appreciated.


P.S.
Any thoughts on why there are so few downloads?

Jason

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #73 on: May 13, 2012, 08:01:00 PM »
ooops  i Forgot this ..

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Re: RWD Announces 'Men of the West, Women From the East'
« Reply #74 on: May 13, 2012, 09:22:07 PM »

Had to chuckle--the PC crowd is a good nickname for a lot of the RWD Heroes that post.  I am a Mac user, so I will look forward to checking out the book on my platform.  Let you know how it looks.

I'm on a mac too. I tried a number of 3rd party (all free) software downloads to to open it and none worked. I finally just gave up. I haven't read it yet. If you find something that works, free or not, let me know

 

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Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran by fathertime
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