A way to help pay for your trip?

[viking]

1. Probably every city in Ukraine has an outdoor "Farmer's Market" kind of thing where local artists come and sell their arts and crafts.  A really nice oil painting can be had for under 100 USD and could easily sell for up to 1,000 USD in the right store in the USA, also found amazing embroidery for the same price.  A lot of details in buying, shipping, and selling, but I believe there's potential there to make a business.

I find the above post from Krimster interesting. ( sorry there K, but I do not know how to do this quote thing correctly).

I am not an art expert, but the thought of being able to "have a connection" where one could go to, select something of small value over there which could be resold for a greater value here, to help defray the expense of a trip is appealing. Not to start a business, but perhaps to just make a few ( hundred?) dollars to ease the old checking account balance.

Anyone ever do this?

[ECOCKS]

If you are plugged into the art community and have sufficient ability to tell good art from crap, it's probably possible. However, keep in mind that the artists' reputation needs to be established in order to realize the true value of their work.

[viking]

Does not have to be art. Just something that one can take on the plane. The possibilities are endless. And I agree one needs to know what they are doing. Hence..a good connection. Just a thought on my part.

[ECOCKS]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. There are some items which could be brought back at a profit. Art fits the bill as a non-bulk, high value ratio item as opposed to steel or fast frozen vareniks.

[krimster]

Viking!

Like most things in Ukraine, this is a very complicated subject.  You are not legally allowed to export out of Ukraine any "cultural artifact" that was produced before 1945.  Due to this requirement, ALL art that is to be exported even if made the day before must have a certificate from a local appraiser/ bureaucrat certifying it's "provenance".  Without this certificate it's entirely possible/likely depending on the given day, that your art will be removed from your custody and become the property of a customs official.  I know of a few people who bought old coins, only to loose them this way at the airport. 

Alternatively, depending upon conditions, you may pack secretly your booty if it doesn't arouse suspicions of the x-ray viewers.  If however your booty for whatever reason is not likely to pass x-ray inspection, then it's interesting to note that the over-nite train from Kyiv to Berlin does not require the x-ray of luggage, and that's all I'm gonna say on the subject.

[ECOCKS]

Actually I like the dog idea. I see it as less risky since you at least end up with a companion from the venture. Still deductible and potentially rewarding.

There was a conversation on here about Russian artists and subjects struggling for recognition in the world. I remember one guy advising to change the names of the pictures from Russian ones to French or Western European ones.

I mentioned this to my wife and she's planning on signing a simpler first name to her work. She's just now learning about prints and the importance of establishing her signature as a brand for maximum value.

In Kyiv, you might visit Andreskiy Spusk and then try to followup with some visits to some of the art schools around Ukraine.

[Vaughn]

For my taste, art is generally (if we are speaking of framed art) too bulky for the return on
investment. I cannot speak for Ukraine, but in Russia, we bought Palekh (laquered boxes)
on the sidewalks of Nizhni Novgorod for a small fraction of their value here - although we
bought them more as souvenirs and gifts for those here and over there. Of course, run
of the mill pieces never pay out well - places like eBay were flooded with that stuff.

Intricately decorated "matryoshki" are no longer the bargain they used to be - the dolls
we spot at tourist spots here in the USA are typically inferior with lack of detail and
imagination.

There was a thread long ago about shipping automobiles from here to there. Years ago
some young entrepreneurs were doing quite well, but I'm not sure if recent tariff laws
overseas (aside from economic conditions) have dampened their profit margin.

[viking]

Leave it to the Vaughnster. My man.

Now that is more like what I had in mind. Some type of, say, higher end jewelry box, that could be purchased there and resold here for a small profit. Something most folks would appreciate and not really available here.  Nothing big. Not looking to make a lot. But of course, is there a market for this stuff?

There is a fairly nice arts and crafts show here on the boardwalk several times a year in the summer months. Set up a small table, enjoy the sun, and... sell a few nice things. Panemyesh?

[docetae]

There was a thread long ago about shipping automobiles from here to there. Years ago
some young entrepreneurs were doing quite well, but I'm not sure if recent tariff laws
overseas (aside from economic conditions) have dampened their profit margin.

My friend who get his BMW stolen and recovered in one container in Europe can tell you this market is going very well....

Textiles seems to be the best to make money now, they are not expensive to ship and margin can be very high and in both ways:

embroidered textiles from Ukraine to North America and children clothes from America to Ukraine/Russia
Cost for good quality clothes are extremely high in Ukraine , it is easy to sell second hand children clothes.

[tfcrew]

My wife once brought back a few nicely carved Ukrainian tobacco pipes.
I sold a couple on eBay just for interest and they did really well.
A whole shipment might do great [I would suppose]

[Wayne]

I have a large amount of art from Ukraine, including drawings, paintings, textiles, and leather hand bags.  Art removed from Ukraine requires a government stamp and paying a tax.  The framing was all done here.  Shipping is very expensive, as you cannot just send it in the mail.  If anyone is interested in art work, they can pm me.

[JR]

There was a thread long ago about shipping automobiles from here to there. Years ago
some young entrepreneurs were doing quite well, but I'm not sure if recent tariff laws
overseas (aside from economic conditions) have dampened their profit margin.

Got a friend who has a friend....who is buying new high end autos. They go straight to a container. Before the ship leaves harbor the car is bought and sold several times. When it gets to Russia it is a used car and avoids the new car 100% tax. They car is sold for a good profit somewhere below the twice US price it goes for in a new car showroom in Moscow.

[viking]

I met a guy the other day who owns a marina in Brooklyn. He sells smaller used boats that are exported to Russia. He works off photos sent to him and buys the boats.As he tells me, some dude shows up, opens his trunk with MUCH cash in it, grabs some bundles and the deal is made. The boats are put in contaniers and off they go. A boat he sells them for about $10K, sell over there for about $35K. Not a bad profit margin.

Of course, he and I both agree that this "dude" is not someone you want to mess with. People with half a mil in cash in their trunk sure as heck are not you average upstanding citizen.

[Shadow]

Of course, he and I both agree that this "dude" is not someone you want to mess with. People with half a mil in cash in their trunk sure as heck are not you average upstanding citizen.

As I have not inspected many trunks I would not know if the guy is an average Boris or that he has many 'brothers'

[BC]

Here local town markets are a pretty big thing.  A few FSU folks bring 'stuff' over in vans and set up on sidewalks, going from town to town.  Lots of old military equipment, old radios and telephones, some antique nick nacks etc, divers watches etc.  Some pretty interesting but what would I do with it....

Saw one of these but I said naaa....  would just pull me to the bottom of the sea.

http://poljot-times.com/russian-watches/images/w18.jpg

[SANDRO43]

Saw one of these but I said naaa....  would just pull me to the bottom of the sea.http://poljot-times.com/russian-watches/images/w18.jpg

I bought a similar but simpler model (SPUTNIK) at a local flea market in 1997 for It£ 5,000 (about $3 then ). I've always wondered about the real purpose of the chained 'safety cap' on the crown . 

[groovlstk]

http://poljot-times.com/russian-watches/images/w18.jpg

Whoever designed this watch was very clever. Notice the similarity between the bars on an old diving helmet and the fascia?

http://www.antiquesofthesea.com/aos_images/helmets/1010_old_helmet_02.jpg

[ECOCKS]

This thread is taking an interesting turn. Originally, the question involved finding some low bulk, high value things which would turn a profit to help defray travel expense. Now it seems to have moved to shipping containers and big ticket items.

There was an American guy in Odessa who was working on the boat thing a year or so ago. His story was similar to the one related above, without the car trunk full of cash. He had three motorboats coming over in a container and was planning on selling them on his own. Other guys (westerners and locals) have tried the auto shipments and the key seems to be having enough connections and street smarts to bring them into the port without getting ripped off or paying bribes so severe that your profit margin takes a hit.

I think you'll find the jewelry boxes are going to take up too much space for any kind of reasonable return.

Framed art would be silly (our frames are better) and would need to be small enough to package in suitcases. Works of art requiring ministry approval are not simple items you can pack away in suitcases for a little return on the airplane ticket.

There are plenty of propostions for entrepreneurial ventures ranging from ideas as simple as buy cheap, sell dear, all the way up to full-blown real estate developments involving golf courses, high-rise apartments and hotel complexes plus all sorts of things in between. Restaurant proposals, logistics facilities, art/curio shipping, all are available out there. PM if you really are interested in any of these and I'll happily match you up with some Brits, and locals who are interested in putting these deals together on partnerships and joint venture arrangements. Money can be made, but like any investment, risks of varying degrees are present.

[viking]

I sold a car about 2 years ago to  man who is in the business of shipping cars to the FSU. Essentially he receives faxes of cars in demand over there, from Lexus to Infinitys to MB to Rolls. When he finds one, he determines what he can buy it for and then resell. If the buyer says go, he purchases the car locally, details it out, sends a confirmation he has it, (a LOT of trust here), the buyer then wire transfers the money and all he has to do is deliver it to the port. The FSU buyer then takes it from there. He does the shipping, bills of lading, export stuff, and then makes a ton of cash when the car arrives. Sweet deal. But he does have to lay out the cash first. It took him awhile and some transactions to get his connections to the point where now everything is "just a phone call away".

[BC]

I bought a similar but simpler model (SPUTNIK) at a local flea market in 1997 for It£ 5,000 (about $3 then ). I've always wondered about the real purpose of the chained 'safety cap' on the crown . 

Same as that string on your (and my) eyeglasses.. LOL

[chivo]

Cars are no longer a viable option with the exception of Prius's, and good luck finding a buyer for those  .

The tax laws changed at the beginning of this year in order to spark domestic sales, or at least that's how they're spinning it. The days of bringing a car over, any car new or used and making a killing are over, well, at least at the moment.

All car sales this year in Russia are in the tank from a combination of the new laws, and the economic crises.

I did this for a few years and it was quite profitable, but near the end of my run, it seemed like everyone and his brother was doing it.

There have already been a few demonstrations here to try and reverse the tax laws to no avail. Probably comes down to another case of Putin taking care of his own, so don't imagine it will change any time soon.

Got a friend who has a friend....who is buying new high end autos. They go straight to a container. Before the ship leaves harbor the car is bought and sold several times. When it gets to Russia it is a used car and avoids the new car 100% tax. They car is sold for a good profit somewhere below the twice US price it goes for in a new car showroom in Moscow.

Most likely pre 2009, if not part urban legend by the time it reached your ear. The tax is factored by year of manufacture and engine size for the most part, and is incredibly high if the car is less than 3 years old and has a engine bigger than 2.4 litres. Not much difference whether it's brand new or not. Some used cars are taxed more than they're worth these days, and you haven't even factored shipping costs. You do get a tax break if you own a company here and ship it in under the company's name, but...

The Russians who I was doing it with have all but gone out of business, or are treading water, and they know just about every trick in the book, even selling cars to custom agents to ease the duty.
 
Of course, before January '09, different situation. Now more trouble than it's worth. The vast majority of high end cars come from Europe anyway.

Now, not saying that it's totally impossible but, you would have to be an incredibly connected Russian to make it happen.

To me, it always seemed easier if you brought something over to Russia from America, like a few iphones, certain designer jeans, or tequila  . Good tequila goes for $150-200 a bottle in Moscow, and about $50-60 in the states, certain popular designer jeans run about 2-4x the price ($200 in the states and $400-800 here) and iphones are $400 minimum here at the moment. Then again, this does create a whole new set of challenges  .

chivo

[JR]

Yes, you are probably right chivo. The info was from last year and I am sure it did change as it passed from hand to hand.