What is a scam?

[Gylden]

Seems to me that there is quite a broad spectrum of what people mean when using the word "scam".

I always have thought of it as any sort of dishonest transaction between people.

On line dictionary search yields among many definitions "deprive of by deceit".

Seems to me as well that we get hung up on semantics sometimes and make extra issues on the threads.

What are some of the recognised uses of the word here at RWD. (I didn't find it in the Glossary)

Here is a definition from anti-scam.org website:

"What is scam?
•First of all let's give a definition of scam: SCAM is obtaining money by means of deception. We are concerned about those women who make this their practice, who are in the business of cheating and scamming men."

 

[remiel6]

IMHO it is a word used a little too liberally, which is not to say that it doesn't exist, because it absolutely does, but I think some people look to hard for them 

[Faux Pas]

Gulden
The definition you posted is excellent. Are you trying to complicate it?  Scams can come in all shapes and sizes or exaggerated in all shapes and sizes too.  When it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and you find it in a pond, it's probably a duck.

One size does not fit all here. When a poster comes to the forum stating he has spent thousands at Anastasia and seems to be happier than a pig in shyt about it, most logical members here will smell a rat. Yes, they will also smell a rat if he were bitter about it as well. 8.5 out of 10 (estimating)women at AW are in fact scamming for money for both them and the agency. It's a well refined racket designed to separate men from their money so when seeing that, it is a very logical assumption that dude is being scammed.

Conversely, when dude meets woman from Anastasia, makes multiple trips then her probability of being a scammer decreases dramatically. Dude offered and agreed to give the woman money then calls her a scammer for taking it. I don't see the relation.

[Gylden]

Faux Pas,
No I am not trying to complicate it. Quite the opposite, just trying to understand what all of you mean.

For example, when you take your car to get the oil changed, when you go to pick it up and they say they didn't actually change it, I would think you are not obligated to pay. Even though you agreed to pay them, they didn't make good on what they were supposed to do.

I could be mistaken, but IMO if a man is offering to pay for travel/English lessons/visas, etc. there is an implied condition that there is a relationship and the goal is to help her with the costs incurred in order to be together. If she plays him (uses deceit), for what ever reason, i.e. to get rid of him, or to get money for anything else, then she has scammed him. It could be her original intentions were different, but when she changed to being dishonest and asked for money, is when she cheated him. If she wanted to get rid of him, she should have just told him.

Anyway now I am off topic, as everyone is different I am just wanting to learn the different meanings you all have about it, to help me in the future avoid semantics arguments and be more productive.
 

[Shadow]

When you ask the question what is a scam, you should also ask what is a scammer.

While your definition of a scam is correct, that means that any attempt to do the act leads to someone being a scammer, regardless of the success.

As for your example, it can also be reversed.
If a man makes a trip to see multiple women implying to all he wishes to pursue a relationship, he is effectively scamming those who are not aware of the true nature of the trip. :evil:

[Gylden]

I happen to agree 100% with you Shadow!
 

[kievstar]

Scam to me means the following in this foregin man RW context:
1. Man marrying / dating out of his league
2. Man saying things he should not - size of house, how much money he has
3. Man bragging about himself or job
4. Man asking a women if she needs money
5. Man talking about fancy vacations or expensive cars
6. Man dating several women at same time
7. Man that is not serious
8. Man that acts like a little boy

All eight above will lead to a RW to take him to the cleaners and he deserves it.  RW will get labelled a scammer but the scammer is the man.

Agencies writing letters on behalf of women is not always a scam as many women tell the agencies to do it for them.  Need to see both sides of the story on every situation on a scam.

  

[SANDRO43]

What oh what can be termed a scam?
Just consider a dumb Western man
who was hot in pursuit
but lost part of his loot
to a hotkova whose letters were spam.  

[Gator]

Sandro, a good limerick.   

 

[Gator]

Scam to me means the following in this foregin man RW context:
1. Man marrying / dating out of his league
2. Man saying things he should not - size of house, how much money he has
3. Man bragging about himself or job
4. Man asking a women if she needs money
5. Man talking about fancy vacations or expensive cars
6. Man dating several women at same time
7. Man that is not serious
8. Man that acts like a little boy

1-5 and 8 are not a scam - they just make the man vulnerable to being scammed.  7 indicates a possible sex tourist.  6 is debatable.

All eight Most above will lead to a RW to take him to the cleaners and he deserves it.  RW will get labelled a scammer but the scammer is the man.

Agencies writing letters on behalf of women is not always a scam as many women tell the agencies to do it for them.  Need to see both sides of the story on every situation on a scam.

 
IMO, most scams occur because the man: 1) has an inflated libido, 2) has an inflated sense of self, 3) the man is lonely and 4) most important, the man is gullible.   

[Gator]

I never knew this before - the word scam is not in my Webster's dictionary.  Yes, its an old copy  .  Scammer is questioned by RWD's spell check.

An exchange of money using deceit must occur before it can be labeled a scam.

Although a scammer is deceitful, a dishonest woman is not necessarily a scammer.  To betray a woman's trust is not a scam; it is worse IMO.

[BillyB]

 SCAM is obtaining money by means of deception.

Most of you know by now that I feel Aweb and their employees fall into that description.

[BillyB]

6. Man dating several women at same time
  

VM men are not scammers. There's nothing wrong with a man or woman dating multiple people to find the best possible match for their themselves. If they promise a relationship with everyone they date for personal gain, that is a different story and something a sex tourist or pro dater would do.

[Doll]

Scam to me means the following in this foregin man RW context:
1. Man marrying / dating out of his league
2. Man saying things he should not - size of house, how much money he has
3. Man bragging about himself or job
4. Man asking a women if she needs money
5. Man talking about fancy vacations or expensive cars
6. Man dating several women at same time
7. Man that is not serious
8. Man that acts like a little boy

All eight above will lead to a RW to take him to the cleaners and he deserves it.  RW will get labelled a scammer but the scammer is the man.

Agencies writing letters on behalf of women is not always a scam as many women tell the agencies to do it for them.  Need to see both sides of the story on every situation on a scam.

  

My husband is a scammer (2,3,4,8)

[I/O]

Scam, Con, User etc are too often confused in this pursuit (IMO). To my way of thinking, a scam is where there is a clear plan on one side to part another from his or her money. The key word being money. Where it is benefits, goods or gain, I see that as using or conning (Confidence tricks).

Often there are links but the first (Scamming) is instigated by the scammer. For the most part, the latter (Using and Conning) are all too often instigated by the ultimate victim. Charles Sobrash (Perhaps the best of all con men) once said, the most difficult man to deceive is an honest man. All too often we see exactly that play out in this scene in so far as men persue something to which they are probably not entitled at a discount. Hot young flesh they can't get close to on their own turf but don't understand why they get their butt handed to them across the world.

[XMan]

Seems to me that there is quite a broad spectrum of what people mean when using the word "scam".

I always have thought of it as any sort of dishonest transaction between people.

On line dictionary search yields among many definitions "deprive of by deceit".

Seems to me as well that we get hung up on semantics sometimes and make extra issues on the threads.

What are some of the recognised uses of the word here at RWD. (I didn't find it in the Glossary)

Here is a definition from anti-scam.org website:

"What is scam?
•First of all let's give a definition of scam: SCAM is obtaining money by means of deception. We are concerned about those women who make this their practice, who are in the business of cheating and scamming men."

 

I think the emotional components of the scam are worse than the financial ones (in many cases). 
Misrepresentation of feelings and intent is the worst kind of scam. 
I am not solely referring to AM / RW scenarios in this case.  It applies universally in relationships regardless of origin.

I find references to "dating out of one's league" interesting.  Often it is an appearance-focused reference.  The reality is that people use every attribute at their disposal to be successful in life as well as successful in finding a mate.  One would be stupid not to take advantage of all of one's talents or attributes. 

Looks are the first thing one notices and evaluates, and it can be the basis for immediate pursuit or dismissal.  But many personality (and other) traits become apparent over varying periods of time and often are of more importance for long-term attraction.  Sense of humor, generosity, decency, trustworthiness, and many, many other things are of equal or greater importance, assuming the external packaging is not repulsive somehow to one party or the other. 

I have seen some very physically attractive women dating out of their respective leagues because the gentlemen that they were with had uncommonly strong or even remarkable character traits, regardless what their physical appearance might be, and the women were shallow and unaccomplished.  I have seen total scoundrels dating out of their respective leagues as well, perhaps because of the "Bad Boy" phenomenon, attracting women who I believe were out of the league of men of their ilk. 

I see money as one more means of attracting someone.  That doesn't make it a good one.  But financial stability is something people look at.  For all the romantic notions of "living on love," reality will eventually come knocking at the door. 

In the end, judging who may or may not be out of someone's league is best left up to the people involved to determine.

[kievstar]

Doll, in your case that was "part" of what you were looking for and it worked out and seems like your husband was speaking true as well.

[kievstar]

The 8 items I listed are not scams.  Never said they were scams.  Need to read all the words and focus on the bottom of what I wrote.   

Billy when you get married and have a family I would take you more seriously.  But your just a guy having fun right now with no children or wife.