Taking Scamming Public

[Tag-n-bag]

Have the agencies removed the motive for RW scammers to scam by now paying them to write letters, video date and chat?

Sure, still plenty of scammer's out there, but now it seems as though the agencies have figured out a win, win situation for themselves. instead of the women participating because they are actually looking for a husband, I suspect many and I mean MANY, are merely doing it for a paycheck. The RW scammer's may not make quite as much money working as an agency shill as they would scamming, but the money is consistent and the work is easy Why bother to go to all the effort of scamming when the agency has done all the groundwork for you already.

Everyone wins here, except the poor schmuck shelling out hundreds if not thousands of dollars thinking all along that he actually has a shot with this RW.

[Jooky]

Have the agencies removed the motive for RW scammers to scam by now paying them to write letters, video date and chat?

Yup.

I suspect many and I mean MANY, are merely doing it for a paycheck

Yup.

[Tag-n-bag]

Wow...what a surprise.

[Jumper]

Wow...what a surprise.

good observations on the individual scam , to agency method of operation shift..




and if you are going to deal with agencies, it is the matrix..
and yes many work and have no sincere intent.

 

but for fun, lets twist things a little,
let's imagine it is just a job,, like any other she might have  perhaps working at a local furniture sales place.

Times are tough there,
this you havn't experienced yet ,but need to ,to fully understand.


Anyway the agency pays decently in comparison to a regular job ..,
and the work is easy and foreign guys never come to visit anyway.
the vast majority do indeed just chat,,or email and move on to another pretty photo.

but hey , the *side perk* is that maybe one of these knuckleheads will turn out to be a decent guy,
he might send some flowers,, and even have enough interest to come visit,, maybe a date,
 maybe something more someday.


but overall it is JUST a job,...

So tag,,

lets ponder things,from a FSU womans perspective..
 
is the women working there ,any less likely,  to be interested in a foriegn guy,
 than the furniture store saleswoman?

or the odds about the same?

just curious your thoughts..











anyway--
Many might *only* be working,and not intereste at all.

some might be working but actually interested,,
(for those wiorking, look at the hours they are online,  as in a shift)

and many listed are not working and  sincere.
 
others listed might not work for the agency, and just as easily have insincere reasons for listing.

it comers back to the guy having to sort it out,
it takes effort , a willingness to do so, and some risks



and yes there are better means of meeting....so can avoid some of this..

[Tag-n-bag]

So tag,,

lets ponder things,from a FSU womans perspective..
 
is the women working there ,any less likely,  to be interested in a foriegn guy,
 than the furniture store saleswoman?

or the odds about the same?

just curious your thoughts..






May I call you a cockeyed optimist 

[Jack]

May I call you a cockeyed optimist

I think it would be more accurate to describe him as an individual who knows the difference between scam agencies and agencies that will provide him with the services he ask's for.

[Tag-n-bag]

I think it would be more accurate to describe him as an individual who knows the difference between scam agencies and agencies that will provide him with the services he ask's for.

Maybe, maybe not. I have noticed a great deal of mixed emotions here with regard to agencies. Some say it is a crap shoot no matter what, some say that no matter how bad the agency, you may still stand a chance.

[Jack]

Tag, if you listen to the most experienced guys around here you usually can't go wrong.  If you listen to the least experienced, good luck, you'll need it.  AJ is one of the most experienced guys around here. He can usually spot a scam 5,564 miles away.

[I/O]

Everyone wins here, except the poor schmuck shelling out hundreds if not thousands of dollars thinking all along that he actually has a shot with this RW.

He's getting what he is paying for, a dream. If he fails to identify the service being sold it's his problem.

[Shadow]

The number of individual scammers were never very high. It seems that recently the criminal organized scams have gone down, probably less profit due to crisis.
What is left are pro-daters and women who find it fun to talk to strangers for money.

Many girls know exactly what they are doing, and yes if you are lucky you might catch one of them. But consider your odds.

[Boogalter]

Let us do a counter point

If I remember the stats correctly, 1/20 guys who write will actually visit. Of that they generally will visit 6 ladies. Of that 50% of the time will they find a lady they will choose. Even if they choose 2/3 will actually complete K-1 visa application and 80% will actually invite the lady to the states. If she is young, the odds change.
So that is 0.25%. So the girls take this is cynical. They know the reality is that they will not find prince charming and making a few bucks on the way providing some entertaining letters.

[I/O]

If I remember the stats correctly, 1/20 guys who write will actually visit. Of that they generally will visit 6 ladies. Of that 50% of the time will they find a lady they will choose. Even if they choose 2/3 will actually complete K-1 visa application and 80% will actually invite the lady to the states. If she is young, the odds change. So that is 0.25%.

From where are these stats drawn? 

[Shadow]

Let us do a counter point

If I remember the stats correctly, 1/20 guys who write will actually visit. Of that they generally will visit 6 ladies. Of that 50% of the time will they find a lady they will choose. Even if they choose 2/3 will actually complete K-1 visa application and 80% will actually invite the lady to the states. If she is young, the odds change.
So that is 0.25%. So the girls take this is cynical. They know the reality is that they will not find prince charming and making a few bucks on the way providing some entertaining letters.

What are the odds if she is young ?

[Jumper]

the bookkeepers stats may,or may  not,
 have real basis ..
but they likely are not that far off ,,


in any case , I'd say his actual point is valid and accurate.

Many believe there is no real chance ,, only  a very slim one at best..
(and that is accurate)
and will generally treat it overall with a great deal of cynicism ,and perhaps make light of it,
or have "fun" with it.
why not?

[Jumper]

So tag,,

lets ponder things,from a FSU womans perspective..
 
is the women working there ,any less likely,  to be interested in a foriegn guy,
 than the furniture store saleswoman?

or the odds about the same?

just curious your thoughts..






May I call you a cockeyed optimist  

Having met such women, and know well how some  agencies work,
both the large corporate ones, and the small local feeder agencies in the FSU..
I'd  prefer to think educated , or experienced..


I certainly would NOT be optimistic about your (or my) chances with a
 18 or 19 yo vid chat girl working for an agency from kiev,odessa,mariopol, kherson, etc etc etc  

 I would equally be certain (optimistic) that i could marry someone that worked at an agency ..
if we hit it off ...(yes, that would entail more about our ages and life situations)





In any case..  Tag you did not answer the question , and it was just for fun?


would a random RW's *job*,
 given the culture(which you need experience in)
 and average job there , really effect whether she was interested in a foreign man for marriage?

(not referring to top end execs , or well salaried women in good positions in kiev,
who are likely not single, or looking ,anywhere.  we are talking average people that are listed in the average agencies listings)


what is your answer or thoughts ?
i'm just curious..




The fact the local agency may pay by letter , pay her to chat ,
or pay her to meet with you ,
may, or may not,  have any real effect on her genuine interest in you.

She can be merely working,with no personal interest in you ,  aas it's  not a bad
 and possibly interesting job.

So of course you need to be fully aware this can, and does ,happen. !!!!
countless stories here of guys finding that out !!
and mostly they are chasing young 18 or 20 yo's, so frankly they should know better..
  but certainly cases of 35 or 40yo women working the system as well.


this doesn't change that she *can* be working, just like anyone else there ,and find you interesting and be sincere in her attraction to you as a person.

i'm just trying to open your eyes to the situation....

 The women working at the furniture store can just as easily have insincere motives or interest in dating for dinner and gifts, or simple amusement..
 or she can be completely sincere.

I could show you a large number of profiles on dating sites (not big marriage agencies)
where the woman is a known pro dater - to date for "gifts" for her and her children.


Are your odds better in one case than another ?
The odds would likely have more to do with her age and life situation,than the *job* she had.

but really it comes down to you sorting out the person you are going to see .. or several individuals..


The largest corporate agencies , which you are likely refering to?
 have thousands and thousands of profiles , ,most of which are from genuine RW,with regular jobs.
 There is also going to be hundreds of women listed , that are " working" for the  local affiliates there  (which the big corporations can conveniantly distance themselves from ,despite knowing well and encouraging the operations)
it is BIG business.do not doubt it. and its the large corporations based here ,making
the actual money.


If you use agencies,  you need to fully understand that.


but as bad as agency situations sound ,
to throw the baby out with the bath water i find silly as well..
because , it is just how  the FSU *works* on a lot  of levels.

A very large number of profiles are from genuine women, and they have at least considered and accepted the possibilty of meeting and ,marrying a foreign man,
it's a large hurdle already crossed.

To just ignore all of them for some other "method" ,
over the known hazards seems odd to me ..
since at least those are known hazards and can then be navigated

The women often signed up at a  big agency for exactly the same reasons you looked
there ,,  it's a well known website in that "field" , wouldn't it make sense to sign up with some of the larger names with the  most members?

Other methods have been mentioned ,, and  i think those are very good as well ,
, for example the dating sites ,social networking sites.. .

but those have their own sets of challenges too..
(the women often have no thoughts of relocation or meeting  a foreigner)

so educate yourself on the different challenges..

The agencies certainly get  a bad rap. .and rightfully so in many cases.
i'm not defending them.. lol

but they hire and cater to men with fantasies ,often chasing model looking teenagers..
a huge percentage of the crash and burn stories are from that ,and also the vast majority of women "working" at those agencies are going to be very very young model looking women.
 It just isn't that hard to navigate away from those several hundred (or more) that are obviously hired to fullfill  a demand ,
and to find a sincere adult women thru an agency ,
isn't the challenge many here proclaim it to be if you use a little common sense and actually read the profiles or her first letters well..

You'll need the same patience and skills, to sort through many of the social networking or dating sites..

[Jumper]

Tag, if you listen to the most experienced guys around here you usually can't go wrong.  If you listen to the least experienced, good luck, you'll need it.  AJ is one of the most experienced guys around here. He can usually spot a scam 5,564 miles away.

lol

 'tis a shame jack,
i'd probably have had a lot more fun and adventures , if not  so cynical eh?

I think it would be more accurate to describe him as an individual who knows the difference between scam agencies and agencies that will provide him with the services he ask's for.

Tag-

Jack is extreemly experienced in the FSU.untold trips and time spent there in his business,
 or in his personal quests.

and he is referring to something as simple as my experience, with both good and bad situations..
I certainly wouldn't claim to be any expert..  by any stretch of the imagination.
but like many others here , i have been around the FSU block.
In the past i've  lived in a FSU country,
also done silly things like dated known pro daters, banner ad girls , just for fun and to see if they
 were *real* ..I've had experiences with good and bad agencies ,sincere and insincere women ,with the social networking sites.. dating RW locally ,, etc etc.

 This doesn't mean i was not serious in my intentions , and i did indeed marry a RW and
we were married for 6 years.We are now divorced, but I have no regrets at all.
(this started back in 1999?)

Jack over the last decade , provided a lot of  help ,and his contacts and people in the FSU  always, provided great customer service, at very reasonable rates.
As someone making a  first trip.. Jack certainly can be of great help to you guiding you through
 the usual pitfalls that first time guys encounter.  

 
 I can tell you in my expereinces the vast majority of RW i met were certainly sincere and
good people.
Russian hospitality is famous for a reason Tag.
 The culture is different ,respect that , and learn as much as you can about it.
I always advise trying to learn a bit of the language ,even if its only some uselful phrases or being able to read a few signs ,it shows some politeness ,it shows some effort on your part, and it will help you in just generally getting around and functioning.


In *general* ,
there are a a TON of challenges, and this is not some easy path..
but if you keep your head on straight,
you are going to meet women who are intelligent, witty , charming,  beautiful, genuine ,
and  who really love life.

It's why you have often run into the advise here to simply to start corresponding ,
find someone, or a few , lined up that you have real interest in ,and that are interested in meeting you ,and to get on a plane  and see for yourself.

Questions here are good ,and you seem to have a good grasp of the situations,
but in country experience is what you really need.
 Your understanding of how things are there ,how to interact ,etc will just be much more clear after a trip.