Bush Warned Gorbachev of Impending Coup

[Boethius]

This would surprise me if it is true, and indicates Gorbachev is a bigger idiot than I initially believed -

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/mikhail-gorbachev-reveals-george-bush-warned-him-of-1991-coup/story-e6frg6so-1226115424889

[I/O]

I wonder how many phones were tapped to get that story.

[Boethius]

LOL.  True that.
 
I'm happy they attempted the coup (which, contrary to his apparent speculation, would've happened whether or not Gorbachev had been on vacation).  I'm happy Gorbachev was ousted, and I'm happy Yeltsin took action to dissolve the USSR.

[I/O]

I'm happy Gorbachev was ousted

Why?
 

I'm happy Yeltsin took action to dissolve the USSR.

Why?

[Boethius]

Why?

On Gorbachev, because his ouster lead to the dissolution of the USSR (referred to by my better half as "a belch from hell"), and on Yeltsin, because it was his decisiveness that lead to the demise of the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union was a prison, with virtually no redeeming features. 

[I/O]

Why do you thing Gorbachev is (was) an idiot?

[Boethius]

I believe (in fact, I now know, based on Russian documentaries I've seen since) the plan for so called "perestroika" and "glasnost'" were constructed by the KGB (internal - the analytics) before Gorbachev was made leader. 

Gorbachev never understood the true goals of so called "perestroika" or "glasnost'", nor why he, in particular, was chosen (he was a "new Khrushchev", down to the grating accent).  He still does not understand this, based on past interviews, or the above interview.  The coup would have occurred whether or not Gorbachev had gone on vacation, and it likely would have succeeded had Yeltsin not been president of the RSFSR.

My husband, incidentally, was under "house arrest" during the entire period of the coup.  He was told by a KGB agent (who, he said "I had never seen before, nor thereafter.") not to leave his home during that period, and he knew the end result, had the coup succeeded, would have been arrest.  So, I still do pray for Yeltsin.

[CanadaMan]

Why do you thing Gorbachev is (was) an idiot?

I thing a thong of thickth penth. 

[I/O]

I thing a thong of thicks pence. 

LOL, point taken.

[I/O]

nor why he, in particular, was chosen (he was a "new Khrushchev", down to the grating accent

Why was he chosen?

[Boethius]

He was a "useful idiot" and a common thief.  He had been "tested" by Andropov, and would do what the KGB wanted.  He was the KGB's choice, BTW, not the Politburo's choice.   Gorbachev did, in fact, do what the KGB wanted, in introducing so called "perestroika" and "glasnost'".  But he didn't understand that the intent of these policies was not to change the country in the way he imagined; They were intended to draw out "dissidents" before the imposition of a much harder line government.

I last visited the USSR about 8 months before the coup.  At that time, my husband told me it was on the verge of collapse, that it would not last much beyond a year.  Funny he could see that, but Gorbachev could not.

[I/O]

Gorbachev could not.

Are you sure Gorbachev could not see it?

[Boethius]

Based on his actions after the coup, including the humiliation he faced when Yeltsin demanded he disband the CPSU, I think not. 

Leading up to the coup, the Politburo was moving toward a "Pinochet model".  I believe Gorbachev knew about that, but in no way did he contemplate dissolution of the USSR, and he still laments its collapse in interviews.

[Muzh]

I believe Gorbachev knew about that, but in no way did he contemplate dissolution of the USSR, and he still laments its collapse in interviews.

So does KGB man Putin.

[Gator]

My husband, incidentally, was under "house arrest" during the entire period of the coup........So, I still do pray for Yeltsin.

My ex-wife from Moscow is very adventurous.   She and a dyev friend went downtown to get as close as possible to the White House.   She just wanted to feel what was happening to her country.  She remarked that there were not many people on the street. 
 
Same as you, she has feelings in her heart for Boris even though he was in charge with his economic reforms during the greatest transfer of wealth in history.  The speed of the transfer of wealth to a relatively few suggests that a plan was in place long before the coup, and the CPSU leaders were played as mere puppets in a larger plot.  Difficult to believe in such a centralized government that this was just the unplanned reaction of some very smart people when the opportunity arose.

[Muzh]

The speed of the transfer of wealth to a relatively few suggests that a plan was in place long before the coup, and the CPSU leaders were played as mere puppets in a larger plot.  Difficult to believe in such a centralized government that this was just the unplanned reaction of some very smart people when the opportunity arose.

http://philologos.org/guide/books/golitsyn.anatoliy.1.htm
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoliy_Golitsyn

[Boethius]

The speed of the transfer of wealth to a relatively few suggests that a
plan was in place long before the coup, and the CPSU leaders were played as mere
puppets in a larger plot. 

My husband thinks that as well, and says it is not "coincidental" that most of the first oligarchs were Jewish.
 
I am not so sure.  Though the KGB likely had intended to apply "shock therapy" in a manner similar to that employed by Pinochet (with the added benefit, under communism, of a slave labour workforce), and that may very well have been where Gaidar's plan came from, remember, Jeffrey Sachs and the Clinton administration also pushed "shock therapy" on Russia as a way to cure the ills of a communist controlled economy.

[Muzh]

My husband thinks that as well, and says it is not "coincidental" that most of the first oligarchs were Jewish.
 
I am not so sure.  Though the KGB likely had intended to apply "shock therapy" in a manner similar to that employed by Pinochet (with the added benefit, under communism, of a slave labour workforce), and that may very well have been where Gaidar's plan came from, remember, Jeffrey Sachs and the Clinton administration also pushed "shock therapy" on Russia as a way to cure the ills of a communist controlled economy.

Boe, what does you husband has to say regarding Golytsin?

[Boethius]

I'll have to ask him tonight, when he's home from work.

[I/O]

Interesting how much of the world views Gorbachev as a darling and Yeltsin as a drunken bum.

[Boethius]

http://philologos.org/guide/books/golitsyn.anatoliy.1.htm
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoliy_Golitsyn

He's skeptical about the individual, including of the surname "Golitsyn", saying no one with that surname would be allowed into the KGB (it's one of the most  prominent families in the Russian Empire), as no one who was not part of the "working class" was allowed into the KGB (i.e. - a "Golitsyn" would never be allowed to be part of the KGB).

But, I'll read his books.  Thanks for the link.