Not your normal age-gap discussion

[Gator]

Pardon me but they both seem nuts.   
 
He  has never had a child; does he know what a baby  means?  And the complications of raising children abroad.  [When I worked overseas I purchased my hash hish from expat teenagers.] 
 
If he has kids from an earlier marriage, why is he roaming the earth and not living where he can see them?   He perhaps rarely communicates with them.
 
What does a UM see as stable in a man who roams the earth, and may want her to go to China, which may deny her entrance?

[IAmZon]

He  has never had a child; does he know what a baby  means?  And the complications of raising children abroad.  [When I worked overseas I purchased my hash hish from expat teenagers.] 

If he has kids from an earlier marriage, why is he roaming the earth and not living where he can see them?   He perhaps rarely communicates with them.
What does a UM see as stable in a man who roams the earth, and may want her to go to China, which may deny her entrance?

A little Classic Libertarianism please ...

A couple points:

1, It is rather impossible to get a sense of someplace, or someone, if you only visit for 5 or 10 days.  That makes you "on vacation"; not really even a traveler.

I have been in the USA now for under 3 weeks, and I don't know if I would want to live here FULL TIME anymore.   Everything is "nice" and "organized" - but there is a lack of color and variety.  And, there is not the strength of living in the moment that I enjoy in South America.  BUT MORE, I gotta tell you middle aged white guys are about as valued in this country as poop.   Again, maybe I am super sensitive because I have spent much time in "opposite land."  But, maybe not.

SO, the idea of a person living in other countries does not AUTOMATICALLY equal a wake job.  MAYBE it is a superior life design ... it depends on the people involved.

2, WHO KNOWS WHAT HAVING A BABY means before you have one LOL.  (spoken as a man who has never had a child)

Carry on ....

[Eduard]

BUT MORE, I gotta tell you middle aged white guys are about as valued in this country as poop. 

Tim, can I frame this and put on my wall? 

[OlgaH]

BUT MORE, I gotta tell you middle aged white guys are about as valued in this country as poop.

Depends on a middle aged white guy  But if he thinks that he is "about as valued in this country as poop" most likely he needs to look in the mirror and consider some changes about himself 

MAYBE it is a superior life design ... it depends on the people involved.

I think depends on the people and most likely on a person's individuality who thinks he is not valued as he should be 

[ECOCKS]

A little Classic Libertarianism please ...

A couple points:

1, It is rather impossible to get a sense of someplace, or someone, if you only visit for 5 or 10 days.  That makes you "on vacation"; not really even a traveler.

I have been in the USA now for under 3 weeks, and I don't know if I would want to live here FULL TIME anymore.   Everything is "nice" and "organized" - but there is a lack of color and variety.  And, there is not the strength of living in the moment that I enjoy in South America.  BUT MORE, I gotta tell you middle aged white guys are about as valued in this country as poop.   Again, maybe I am super sensitive because I have spent much time in "opposite land."  But, maybe not.

SO, the idea of a person living in other countries does not AUTOMATICALLY equal a wake job.  MAYBE it is a superior life design ... it depends on the people involved.

2, WHO KNOWS WHAT HAVING A BABY means before you have one LOL.  (spoken as a man who has never had a child)

Carry on ....

LOL, of course if folks read the thread I mentioned that his grown son visited them a couple of years ago.......

I think you have hit on a big part of his motivation in point number 2 Tim. Just don't tell the women, they are sure that the only reason someone would be there is to rape and pillage their way across the bedrooms of the FSU.

[IAmZon]

But if he thinks that he is "about as valued in this country as poop" most likely he needs to look in the mirror and consider some changes about himself

OLGA I take it your are a middle aged woman, nice, well intended, smart, living in the USA?  GOOD FOR YOU ... do not move.  I do not need to look in the mirror.  I am seeing very clearly

The notion that gender values and perceptions are constant throughout the world is ridiculous. (YOU HAVE TO AGREE WITH THIS?) Americans tend to be career centered and a little tight and cold.  Of course there are exceptions - there are hippies in America!   Latinos tend to live in the moment and with great passion.  Of course there are exceptions - there are accomplished Latinos! The Value of being a man today in the USA - or a woman for that matter - is FAR different than it was 50 years ago.  In this moment, the value of being a man in the USA versus Colombia, for example, it is opposite land.


Last month I lived in Medellin Colombia.  How many attractive women walked in the park downstairs?  TONS AND TONS.  Literally, on a Saturday night, there are 500 - 1000 model - quality women in cafes and clubs.(I know! I know! Looks are NOT everything.  80% of these beauties are poor and thus interesadas ... nevertheless)    They are all "approachable" by me - nice, fun, respectful.  I am a man, and I have not offended them.   7 times out of 10 this "could" lead to more if I chose.


Today I live in St. Pete, Fl, and I can go days or weeks without seeing a very attractive woman.  (Jesus!  American has gotten FAT almost overnight)   And, on the occasion that I start conversation with a cashier / attendant / associate 8 times out of 10 there is a feeling like I BETTER WATCH WHAT I SAY?!?!?   Somebody is going to call the cops LOL    OK - maybe I am exaggeration, but you get the picture.

person's individuality who thinks he is not valued as he should be

Not really.  Is that not what is at the base of all this?!?   People thinking for alternatives and solutions, opportunities, better environments ... based in part by one's interests, ambitions goals, preferences?  THEN take action and risk to attain it.

[OlgaH]

Americans tend to be career centered and a little tight and cold.  Of course there are exceptions - there are hippies in America!   

I have a different experience and observation  I have met a lot of white Americans who very well managed their professional and family life. I see them also at the professional associations' meetings like canoe trips, golf, salsa nights and other events where their families gather together. I don't know what meaning you put into your "color and passion", but when I see four generations of one family together that's what I would call color and passion 

In this moment, the value of being a man in the USA versus Colombia, for example, it is opposite land.

Last month I lived in Medellin Colombia.  How many attractive women walked in the park downstairs?  TONS AND TONS.  Literally, on a Saturday night, there are 500 - 1000 model - quality women in cafes and clubs.(I know! I know! Looks are NOT everything.  80% of these beauties are poor and thus interesadas ... nevertheless)    They are all "approachable" by me - nice, fun, respectful.  I am a man, and I have not offended them.   7 times out of 10 this "could" lead to more if I chose.

the fact you stated that 80% of these beauties are poor is probably the key  But question would be why those 80% beauties are poor in the countries where "men feel like men." BTW the percentage of domestic violence are also higher in South America 

American women have different values and they don't need to put pounds of make up and wear Jessica Simpson's high heels daily to survive and be too approachable  but they are not less attractive in their business or evening dresses. 

Latin American women also tend to gain weight, especially after marriage 

And, on the occasion that I start conversation with a cashier / attendant / associate 8 times out of 10 there is a feeling like I BETTER WATCH WHAT I SAY?!?!?   Somebody is going to call the cops LOL    OK - maybe I am exaggeration, but you get the picture.

Personally, I like when a man watches not only his hands but his mouth too     

[IAmZon]

"I have a different experience and observation   I have met a lot of white Americans who very well managed their professional and family life. I see them also at the professional associations' meetings like canoe trips, golf, salsa nights and other events where their families gather together. I don't know what meaning you put into your "color and passion", but when I see four generations of one family together that's what I would call color and passion"


HMMMM.   What state in the USA are you referring to?   Wisconsin


Listen, I do NOT INTEND to be a critic!  I am just offering my observations.  Please note that I never thought I would learn a foreign language or travel often outside the USA. BUT, the world you speak of is not the "normal" USA.    I remember such a place about 30 years ago.  Maybe some small, rural areas are like this.  But, 4 generations of family together!?!?!?  That is very rare for any big city / modern family in the USA nowadays.


   

[BC]

The notion that gender values and perceptions are constant throughout the world is ridiculous. (YOU HAVE TO AGREE WITH THIS?) Americans tend to be career centered and a little tight and cold.  Of course there are exceptions - there are hippies in America!   Latinos tend to live in the moment and with great passion.  Of course there are exceptions - there are accomplished Latinos! The Value of being a man today in the USA - or a woman for that matter - is FAR different than it was 50 years ago.  In this moment, the value of being a man in the USA versus Colombia, for example, it is opposite land.

Last month I lived in Medellin Colombia.  How many attractive women walked in the park downstairs?  TONS AND TONS.  Literally, on a Saturday night, there are 500 - 1000 model - quality women in cafes and clubs.(I know! I know! Looks are NOT everything.  80% of these beauties are poor and thus interesadas ... nevertheless)    They are all "approachable" by me - nice, fun, respectful.  I am a man, and I have not offended them.   7 times out of 10 this "could" lead to more if I chose.

Today I live in St. Pete, Fl, and I can go days or weeks without seeing a very attractive woman. (Jesus!  American has gotten FAT almost overnight)   And, on the occasion that I start conversation with a cashier / attendant / associate 8 times out of 10 there is a feeling like I BETTER WATCH WHAT I SAY?!?!?   Somebody is going to call the cops LOL    OK - maybe I am exaggeration, but you get the picture.

Not really.  Is that not what is at the base of all this?!?   People thinking for alternatives and solutions, opportunities, better environments ... based in part by one's interests, ambitions goals, preferences?  THEN take action and risk to attain it.

A little Classic Libertarianism please ...

A couple points:

1, It is rather impossible to get a sense of someplace, or someone, if you only visit for 5 or 10 days.  That makes you "on vacation"; not really even a traveler.

I have been in the USA now for under 3 weeks, and I don't know if I would want to live here FULL TIME anymore.   Everything is "nice" and "organized" - but there is a lack of color and variety. And, there is not the strength of living in the moment that I enjoy in South America.  BUT MORE, I gotta tell you middle aged white guys are about as valued in this country as poop.   Again, maybe I am super sensitive because I have spent much time in "opposite land."  But, maybe not.

SO, the idea of a person living in other countries does not AUTOMATICALLY equal a wake job. MAYBE it is a superior life design ... it depends on the people involved.

2, WHO KNOWS WHAT HAVING A BABY means before you have one LOL.  (spoken as a man who has never had a child)

Carry on ....

Riv,

Generally addressing the bold parts.

I *think* I know where you are coming from having lived 49 of 52 years outside the US.

Career oriented and cold?.. I would describe as warm but often superficial.  Here one doesn't give a rats ass about what neighborhood you live in, they might look at the house instead.  I do think that there is more value placed overseas as to 'how you are' vs 'who you are and pretend to be'.

Latino's??.. add Mediterranean which includes Spain, Italy, Turkey, Greece, etc etc.. It's a lifestyle thing.. Life seems to count a bit more than everything else.  Even a nice afternoon nap is a good thing LOL.. Such might be considered a sin and waste of time elsewhere.

Nice women exist everywhere, even in the US.. just hang around any college there.  I wanted to say high school, but that indeed might land you in jail.  The short time I lived in the US there was nary a problem with women.. I was a teen and not middle aged though.

Vacation vs living, yes a huge difference.  An experience that can only be understood by few.  I do not knock those that have not had the opportunity but do wish more would use any opportunity and try to live outside the country of their birth.

I do enjoy visiting the US every couple of years but have also noted the lack of uniqueness.. McD's Wendy, Staples, Wallmart, Home Depot, PVS, etc etc are great for shopping but do create a bland experience, town after town... we drove endless miles on our last trip and saw the same landscape.  I do prefer getting up in the morning and going for a good cappuccino and cornetto, hitting the bread store for some bread and fresh milk, a real butcher that pulls out a whole side of beef, lamb, whatever and asks which piece you want and how you want it cut.. and ground beef however you want from whatever piece..  The pharmacy where you can walk in and get a common antibiotic or prescription drug without having to go to the doctor first (narco drugs excluded unless they know you have been prescribed them before).  The cop that will give you directions without citing you for not wearing a seat belt. Parking where your car fits. A stop sign means watch out.   Cashiers that really don't worry about that last cent or two or you just say keep the pennies for next time. Or how many times I simply forgot my wallet and the bread store lady or veggie man simply says 'next time'. Going to a restaurant and ordering what you want vs what's on the menu.. or maybe there is not even a menu at all and even prices never discussed.  Go dine at 8 and stay till midnight enjoying the meal and company and ask for the bill when you want it and not when they ask you trying to clear the table for the next customer to meet their table turnover quota.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

An estimated 4 million US citizens live overseas aside from military folk.. I wish there were more as it would combat geographic isolation and expand mental boundaries.

Kids?  They are the most flexible creatures on earth.  Don't underestimate their robustness and abilities wherever they may be born or grow up.

Ok I'm done... just a little rant.. ignore if you see fit... LOL

[OlgaH]

HMMMM.   What state in the USA are you referring to?   Wisconsin


Listen, I do NOT INTEND to be a critic!  I am just offering my observations.  Please note that I never thought I would learn a foreign language or travel often outside the USA. BUT, the world you speak of is not the "normal" USA.    I remember such a place about 30 years ago.  Maybe some small, rural areas are like this.  But, 4 generations of family together!?!?!?  That is very rare for any big city / modern family in the USA nowadays.

 

We live in Florida  but some of our relatives live in NY and California. I also enjoy family events of our friends.  And they live in the ordinary U.S. counties...  where they have their professional practices       I would not say it is very rare... probably we enjoy different companies that we choose.  I also offer just my observation.

[Eduard]

I'm with Tim on this one. And he is in St.Pete, FL... I'm in SRQ area and it's even worse here in regard to single women. In fact it's pathetic for guys in their late 30s or early to late 40s. There is no SINGLE, ATTRACTIVE women to date for the guys in that age range in this area. The two years that I spent here being single were the most miserable years of my life (in terms of dating/relationship is concerned). I was in great "fighting" shape - worked out every day, lots of tennis, beach volleyball and marshal arts classes, owned my home, a nice car. If all was equal but I was living in Russia during those years I would have had the time of my life and more women to date than I physically could.


Now some might say: "but surely there are women to date in Florida where you live!".
This is just my experience but this is what I had learned during my single years here in regard to what kind of women are available to date for single guys in that age range:


1. you can party with the real young, pretty ones if you can offer them drugs. I was never into that scene so that wasn't an option for me. Pass.


2. really unattractive women and the ones who aren't really fat but have a "think" body built. I went out with a couple of "thick" girls, they were totally into me and would do anything for me but I just wasn't attracted to them what so ever! I wasn't looking for a model type, not at all, but just wanted to find some one that I would feel at least some attraction to. So I didn't persue the "thick" girls for this reason. Pass


3. Now off course there are plenty of BBW! (Big beautiful women in case you didn't know what that stands for). I can accept that probably there are people who find obesity beautiful but I'm not one of them. 1/3 of American women are obese so as you can imagine  they are out there, single and looking. So if you are into fat girls you are in paradise! But I'll pass.


4. There were plenty of single and available women in their late 40s and 50s and I had a number of them hitting on me, but I wanted a family, children of my own... so once again I had to pass.


Russia was a 180 degrees in reverse so looking for my wife in Russia was the only logical thing to do.


Are there any attractive American women here, where I live? Off course! Not a lot of them but on occasion I see some. But thee is a big BUT there - they are usually not single.


I suspect that Tim is having a similar dating experience to mine.

[IAmZon]

I suspect that Tim is having a similar dating experience to mine.

I don't date here - in St. Pete FL ... 5 - 6 times in the last couple years.    I go to New York and Miami and LA  frequently, and that is MUCH better.  But, here?  PFFFF 

A notable exception ... I went out with a 24 year old fashion model a couple months ago - I got lucky:)   THAT was the only time I ever FELT like I was with girl FAR TOO young for me.   20 - 29 in the USA is like 13 - 18 in other countries.  I also date a 30 year old very attractive woman.   This has been going on for years.  I do not kiss her butt, or fall at her feet.   That interests her.  She is a player! ( I bitch to the men she dates. ) We have a long term game going on ... she demonstrates to me why I rarely date AW LOL

But there ARE complications to this reality.  In this area, and in MANY others,  the local standard is BS for a man.   I don't know how I could safely live here with the women I date in Colombia - or New York for that matter!

[Eduard]

I agree about dating in bigger cities. It is much better in places like NY or even Orlando and Miami. Although I still found much better dates in the Russian community there. All AW were as described in my post above.
Gator disagrees with me, I know, but he dates women around 50 and that wasn't what I was looking for in my early 40s. I wanted family and kids. And my options here in SRQ were pretty much NONE! The very few single women who are attractive and in shape have too many options of men and some of them date several guys at the same time unwilling to settle with just one. Russian women will never believe it can be this way because their dating experience in Russia is a 180 degree in reverse and we all have a tendency to project.

[Gator]

Gator disagrees with me, I know, but he dates women around 50 and that wasn't what I was looking for in my early 40s.

Ok, ok!  In summary, it was not excellent, but not as bad as many men describe.   If satisfied, go to the next post.   
 
If not satisfied with my summary, here are some specific facts over the decades (glean as you wish):
 
In my early 30s I dated everything spontaneously, and some were a little older than me.  I usually had a good time with anyone, even more upbeat than now.   It was so easy then, even when I worked in Iran I had plenty of fine choices.  Fell in love twice.
 
In my  40s I was not dating.  I was building a business and when at home doing family things, especially teaching my sons things not learned at school such as how to catch a fish, read a map and take a crap in the forest.  It was a real joy, and all that I desired in life. 

In my late 50s.  I was reintroduced to dating.   It had changed.  Probably my fault as I felt out of tune.  That was a shock.  I did not date much but was "claimed" by two different women in sequence.  Both much younger and both remarkably good looking, and both a little odd.  Had to be odd to date a fossil.
 
Then I went to Russia.  Essentially I never returned .   In my 60s  in between RW and after my divorce I did date briefly, very briefly, a few local AW.  I don't know if it was luck but most had some issues, and all went downhill from the first time we met: 
 
-   One had a daughter who had been murdered and dismembered in a widely covered news story here.  [Tragic]
 
-  Another's husband had just come out of the closet.  [Sad and Perplexing]   
 
-  One was a golddigger, which I guess was the story of her life but now her beauty was in decline.  [Difficult and not worth it] 
 
-  A couple seemed somewhat normal.  [Boring]   
 
I also wonder if the RW have a similar "baggage" story to tell but it is not told because of:
 
1.  English proficiency.
2.  RW seem to keep skeletons in the closet, which is not healthy.
 
 

[Slumba]

But there ARE complications to this reality.  In this area, and in MANY others,  the local standard is BS for a man.   I don't know how I could safely live here with the women I date in Colombia - or New York for that matter!

Sorry to be dense - can you explain what you mean by "safely live here with the women I date in Colombia or NY" ... ?

[IAmZon]

One of the KEYS to a long term relationship is CONTENTMENT.   In some environments, the woman is favored, in other environments the man is favored.  In my home of St. Petersburg, FL - an attractive woman is pretty rare. 


The opposite is true in Colombia, for example.  I have many friends, English, American, and Colombianos who are are with, or married to 9's and 10's that love them - 15 - 25 years younger.  And, many of these guys say to me "Jesus, I met this girl today!  Man, if I was not married ..."  They have to fight to be content because ( 1, they are not honestly and completely in love LOL ) of the environment they are living in. 


In the USA generally, and in my city particularly, the tables are turned. 

[Eduard]

One of the KEYS to a long term relationship is CONTENTMENT.   In some environments, the woman is favored, in other environments the man is favored.  In my home of St. Petersburg, FL - an attractive woman is pretty rare. 


The opposite is true in Colombia, for example.  I have many friends, English, American, and Colombianos who are are with, or married to 9's and 10's that love them - 15 - 25 years younger.  And, many of these guys say to me "Jesus, I met this girl today!  Man, if I was not married ..."  They have to fight to be content because ( 1, they are not honestly and completely in love LOL ) of the environment they are living in. 


In the USA generally, and in my city particularly, the tables are turned.

I've never been to Colombia but the situation in Russia is as you describe it in Colombia. Everything is a 180 degrees opposite to the US when ot comes to the relationship dynamics. Russian men got it made.