Teaching Babushka English....help! ;)

[Saltheart]

Hola,


Have my FSU mother-in-law staying for quite some time and I'm insisting (very nicely of course) that she needs to learn English.


Can any of you recommend any good books / CDs / e-learning, etc.. To accomplish this?  Did some google searches but haven't quite found anything that looks like the real deal.  Thought maybe some of you have been through this.


Will update our status later - things are great!  Hope you're all well.


Salty

[Daveman]

Hola,


Have my FSU mother-in-law staying for quite some time and I'm insisting (very nicely of course) that she needs to learn English.


Can any of you recommend any good books / CDs / e-learning, etc.. To accomplish this?  Did some google searches but haven't quite found anything that looks like the real deal.  Thought maybe some of you have been through this.


Will update our status later - things are great!  Hope you're all well.


Salty

Is she *really interested* in learning?  If not, it'll be an exercise in futility and possibly create some ill will in the process...


Is she is, I'd recommend downloading audio files for the Callan method..  and practice it with her.  Watch some You-Tube vids on the method.


She won't be fluent any time soon, but should pick up on a good bit of language fairly quickly.


Also, just including her in the conversations - in English.. let your wife translate, but carry them in English rather than in Russian (translating to you).


Still though, I wouldn't push it too heavily.

[BillyB]

Ever heard of "Can't teach an old dog new tricks"? The older we are, the harder it is to learn something. Asking your MIL to learn English is going to torture her unless it's coming from a English speaking gentleman she's interested in. 

[I/O]

Waste of time - spend your money on taking her to the nearest Sunday market (s). Been there, done that with FIL, MIL, cousins, uncles, friends and all points in between. Have you heard the expression 'pissing into the wind'?

[Saltheart]

She's a pretty sharp lady, mid 60's, engineer, just retired...will be spending about 6 months a year for the next couple years then may possibly move here...we recently had a child and its her first grandchild.  She recently got her drivers license in Russia so she's definitely still capable.  She studied English as a student...she knows some very basic English...so I think there's enough motivation...also, my wife is fluent so she can help her tremendously.


Thx for the tip Daveman...anything else I should look at?


-Salty

[mendeleyev]

Dave's suggestions were great and Pimsleur has a basic English course on CD for Russian speakers which may be a good place to start. Most Pimsleur and other decent resources are available at many large city libraries so "check it out" first, buy later once genuine interest has been established.

Early on I found that my MIL knew more English than she let on and read it better than speaking. Grandchildren who speak English was a motivator for her but still at her age in most settings she remains more comfortable with Russian and that is fine with us. She has been a major contributor to my Russian skills.

YouTube is an awesome resource whether learning English or for guys learning some Russian.

[Kunstkammer]

Let me get this out of the way first, you are not going to teach her English.  CDs and Youtube are not going to teach her English.  Teaching English as a foreign language to Russians is my career.  I have all the proper formal training and credentials - I'm not just some dude that came to Russia and said "oh I speak English I guess that means I can teach." I help develop curriculum and mentor and offer guidance to new teachers.  In other words - I am a professional.


In my years of experience I have seen students in the later part of life begin at the Starter level and advance to Upper Intermediate and beyond.  If the motivation is there anyone can learn, so don't let anyone tell her she is too old.  But with that said, don't force it.  If you do that it will make her lose all motivation and hate English and will ever learn.


So as I stated earlier, you are not going to teach her English, but you can help her understand her surroundings a bit.  I would get a label maker or print out labels for most things in the house and attach them.  Simply by repetition of sight she will learn these nouns which will be very helpful.  For verbs, you can get a set of flashcards for children learning to read with pictures and the word under it to look at in her leisure.  In not to long she will be using present simple, which can be very helpful.  After that you can try to teach past simple, but irregular verbs might be confusing, and future simple.  Present continuous and past continuous you can do, maybe.  Still every thing she says is going to be very basic, but helpful for communication.  I wouldn't even begin to touch the perfect tenses, it is a very difficult concept for Russian speakers to comprehend. 


Also - What Russian her age isn't an engineer     In the first lesson I have with a class I like to say "Raise your hand if you are an engineer or one of your parents is/was."  Usually all of my students raise a hand. [size=78%] [/size]

[ghost of moon goddess]

 I wouldn't even begin to touch the perfect tenses, it is a very difficult concept for Russian speakers to comprehend.   

Very true !  When it comes to using "past simple" vs "present perfect" in American English, I have to admit I certainly am one of those Russians who didn't comprehend the concept yet. 

[Anechka]

Good luck with teaching  my mom gave up after a few years, she took some classes in Russia, she is around 58 now and she is an engineer 

I've never bothered to teach her since this is kind of a family tradition))) I have a MEd with 2 majors in teaching English and Russian, but it's quite difficult to teach my own mom, we'll end up quarreling.

From my experience, a Russian speaking grandmother is a good motivation for your kids to learn Russian, since it's usually the only language they can communicate...

[SANDRO43]

Very true !  When it comes to using "past simple" vs "present perfect" in American English, I have to admit I certainly am one of those Russians who didn't comprehend the concept yet. 

Present Perfect:


USE 1 Unspecified Time Before Now


USE 2 Duration From the Past Until Now (Non-Continuous Verbs)
http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/presentperfect.html

Apart from the above, perhaps the simplest explanation is: an action that started in the past and still has some effect/consequence in the present.

Compare 'The rain hasn't stopped yet' with 'The rain stopped a few hours ago'.

It's a verbal aspect present in most Indo-European languages except Russian, which only has a past simple or perfective past for past events that elsewhere denotes 'completed' actions with no bearing on the present, as in the Ancient Greek ἀόριστος (aoristos). A similar discrepancy applies to future aspects. Maybe the celebrated Russian 'bluntness' applies to verbs, too ?

Anyway, it is slowly disappearing in common, every-day usage as part of the general albeit deplorable tendency towards simplification.

[mendeleyev]

The city of Moscow is setting up a pilot program to provide free English instruction for "pensioners" over 55 of age. There are two reasons: First to help them become comfortable with using the Internet. The other reason is that Moscow believes that older folk who are often found out in their neighborhoods and can be helpful in the new initiative to have English speaking guides across the city in order to make Moscow more tourist friendly.

This second reason goes hand in hand, officials believe, with this coming summer's placement of English speaking guide kiosks around the city with maps and directions to important tourist points in English.

[mendeleyev]

While I understand and can appreciate many of Kunstkammer's points, CD's and YouTube videos can be very helpful resources. They were to me and have been to many others. No one however would dispute that competent teachers and professional materials are invaluable to learning a language properly.

I also agree with Kunstkammer that some so-called English teachers shouldn't be teaching just because English happens to be their native language.

[Daveman]

While I understand and can appreciate many of Kunstkammer's points, CD's and YouTube videos can be very helpful resources. They were to me and have been to many others. No one however would dispute that competent teachers and professional materials are invaluable to learning a language properly.

I also agree with Kunstkammer that some so-called English teachers shouldn't be teaching just because English happens to be their native language.

Indeed. While we don't know the mind of Grandma, my bet is that she interested, at most, in learning some conversational English rather than to pass the TOEFL.  Common use conversational English, whether we like it or not, varies from the academic version.  That's universal.

[Kunstkammer]

While I understand and can appreciate many of Kunstkammer's points, CD's and YouTube videos can be very helpful resources. They were to me and have been to many others. No one however would dispute that competent teachers and professional materials are invaluable to learning a language properly.

I also agree with Kunstkammer that some so-called English teachers shouldn't be teaching just because English happens to be their native language.

Videos and CDs are not interactive, they don't correct your mistakes, they teach you to be a parrot with canned responses and questions.  They can be useful supplements, but a CD and a video can't teach you to speak.  Speaking and saying something are two different realities.

[calmissile]

The city of Moscow is setting up a pilot program to provide free English instruction for "pensioners" over 55 of age. There are two reasons: First to help them become comfortable with using the Internet. The other reason is that Moscow believes that older folk who are often found out in their neighborhoods and can be helpful in the new initiative to have English speaking guides across the city in order to make Moscow more tourist friendly.

This second reason goes hand in hand, officials believe, with this coming summer's placement of English speaking guide kiosks around the city with maps and directions to important tourist points in English.

That's a novel idea.  Perhaps it will also provide them with a little pocket change as guides.  Ukraine might want to consider the same program.  I would also think that the pensioners would gain from having something to do.

[Anechka]

While I understand and can appreciate many of Kunstkammer's points, CD's and YouTube videos can be very helpful resources. They were to me and have been to many others. No one however would dispute that competent teachers and professional materials are invaluable to learning a language properly.

I also agree with Kunstkammer that some so-called English teachers shouldn't be teaching just because English happens to be their native language.

Unless they have a degree in ESL teaching 
I teach Russian as a foreign language, but this was one of my majors in the university 

[mendeleyev]

Videos and CDs are not interactive, they don't correct your mistakes, they teach you to be a parrot with canned responses and questions.  They can be useful supplements, but a CD and a video can't teach you to speak.  Speaking and saying something are two different realities.

I'm glad that you see their value as supplements as that is what they're supposed to do.

Again, no one is saying to try to learn a language from start to finish on a CD. But if a guy spends some time using a good CD series at least when he arrives in Russia he can say things like please, thank you, where is the toilet, may I help you, one ticket please, where is _____ street, etc, without sounding like an idiot in the process. The same can be said for Russian to English.

A qualified teacher and student relationship is nothing more than a parrot either at first. At the same time I agree with the advantage of a teacher to correct mistakes.

[BillyB]

If the motivation is there anyone can learn, so don't let anyone tell her she is too old. 

If motivation by MIL is there to learn English, I doubt Saltheart would be here writing this thread. It's a bad idea for him to suggest his MIL to learn English or even give her with with educational material that he purchased as she will feel pressured to do something she doesn't want. It's not worth doing something that's not really important to anyone but Saltheart which could sacrifice family peace and harmony.


I'm sure MIL is coming on a tourist visa, not a student visa. If I visited some country and my wife asked me educational material to study the native language while I'm there on vacation, guess what my answer would be?


Most older people have learned what they wanted to in life already. They're not rushing to enroll in universities as much as the younger generation.  It's not a good idea to tell parents what to eat, what to buy, what not to smoke, and what to learn. If kids questioned things parents did in life, parents could be insulted as if the kids think they're stupid.


As one becomes older, it becomes much harder to learn a language. I've been around a lot of immigrants. Young children pick up the language quick and have little or no accent. Older people need much more effort and get less results and they never fully grasp a new language.


The best way for MIL, if she's single, to learn English is to hook her up with an English speaking gentleman that she has fun with. Learning English will be fun with a person she has fun with and it won't cost Saltheart a dime or get himself on MIL's crap list.


My wife asked me to learn her language and I told her "no". I can only do so much in life and doing one thing that takes lots of time and effort takes away from doing other important things. I told her it's best I keep my efforts on work and business since we already communicate flawlessly in a common language(English).


This situation is a first that I can remember since there's  been a few debates on the importance of learning languages of the spouse or girl a guy is to meet. I wouldn't waste my time learning a new language thinking it's going to score a few points with the ladies. Time invested and return for my efforts isn't big enough. Many guys have poor socializing skills with native ladies in their own native language and learning a new language isn't going to help. It's better they work on their socializing skills with women before learning a new language.

[Daveman]

...
This situation is a first that I can remember since there's  been a few debates on the importance of learning languages of the spouse or girl a guy is to meet. I wouldn't waste my time learning a new language thinking it's going to score a few points with the ladies. Time invested and return for my efforts isn't big enough. Many guys have poor socializing skills with native ladies in their own native language and learning a new language isn't going to help. It's better they work on their socializing skills with women before learning a new language.

Yeah, it's the first of its kind that I can recall.



Going a little off topic here...



Nothing, IMO, should be done to score points with the ladies.  If a man wants to learn Russian, then by all means, do so.  While I am far from fluent, my Russian study has been far more valuable to *myself* than any amount of brownie points it could possibly garner.  If a woman is somewhat impressed then it's a bonus.  Personally I *must have* the independence and freedom of being able to communicate on my own so my learning some Russian was paramount, but of course, I also basically lived there on a few occasions as well so it would be rather stupid on my part to forego such an asset.

[Anotherkiwi]

Very true !  When it comes to using "past simple" vs "present perfect" in American English, I have to admit I certainly am one of those Russians who didn't comprehend the concept yet. 

I'm very glad, GOMG because, as a non-American native English speaker, that construction really grates since it doesn't define the period.  How can you mix "didn't" (finished action in this case) with "yet" (unfinished)?  I would prefer (and I'm sure that Sandro, Kunstkammer and any other teacher can correct me) "...one of those Russians who hasn't yet grasped the concept."  I prefer "grasped" to "comprehended" in this instance because it is a standard English phrase (and a lot easier on the tongue).
 
I know that you're using it only as an example, because your English is better than most on here. 

[Kunstkammer]

Hasn't should be with yet, of course but colloquial usage and regional speech patterns have made grammar like that acceptable in certain places.  It is one of the problems with teaching English.  Places like Cambridge control what is 'English' but the langue is a native language of so many different places, incorrect grammar sometimes is more correct depending on where you are.  As an American teaching with British English materials every so often I'll have to look up what some word means or force myself to use certain terms or phrases. 


About 2 months ago during a break I had to look up what an abattoir [/size]is.  In my personal vocabulary I use comprehended more than grasped, just my speaking style.

[Anotherkiwi]

...About 2 months ago during a break I had to look up what an abattoir is.

Reminds me of a New Zealand joke (which is a true story) that was quite popular back in the 1970s.  When the All Blacks (rugby team) toured South Africa, they naturally were hosted at different functions.  At one of these one of the players was asked by some snooty local what he did for a living. The reply was that he worked on the beef chain in an abattoir.  The local had no idea what he meant - when it was explained in more detail, his brow cleared and he exclaimed "Oh, you're an exporter!"  Howls of laughter from the team-mates, who had never heard anything so up-market to describe cutting up dead cattle in a meat-processing plant.  (pretend this is a cow )