For Newbies : the optimum channel

[Patagonie]

Hi Pat.  Thanks for your write-ups.  You  are putting a lot of time into this in the hopes of helping others.  I commend you  for this.  Don't now how you are finding the time to do this, since you have a lot of 'bedroom duties' with new spouse.

Just want to note that I did not encounter any of these typical problems when I followed my procedures as laid out in Pursuing FSUW 101 in Starting Out section.

The keys are planning ability, starting out with huge data bases, focusing on narrowly defined geographical areas (preferably just one city) not focusing on pictures, screening procedures, having lots of sex [only applies to men with at least average libido] so that you don't make decisions in a 'sex-starved' frame of mind, do not have it fixed in your mind that you 'need or must find a wife soon,' have plenty of money [not for spending wildly on the women, but for trips, etc.,] and free time for trips.

Hi ML thank
.
Newbies you can think that ML is just putting here some humor here, in fact what he is saying is GOLDEN.

look :
planning ability
having huge data bases
focusing on defined geographical areas
not focusing on photos
screening procedures
having lots of sex [only applies to men with at least average libido] so that you don't make decisions in a 'sex-starved' frame of mind
have plenty of money [not for spending wildly on the women, but for trips, etc.,]
free time for trips

This is a GOLDEN summary.
here is the link about ML's procedure : http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

ML : i have of course started to write this few months ago. It is a lot of job of course and it is not finished.

[Patagonie]

 ARE YOU ELIGIBLE ?

 
   This is a topic rarely put on the table at first. Let starts by the nasty question, but excuse me :
WHO are you ? Indeed no people who hope to earn some money from you would like to tell you : « it would be preferable that you never invest, even a cent, in this adventure. ».

 
   If you are in business the first question is : is this project should be done ? And after : HOW i can do it ?

 
   What will make you a man who would be able to start and finish successfully a complete journey with an FSU women ?

 
   Is it serious to start the journey if MANY disclaimers are crossing your way ?
   Many in RWD would therefore advice you to avoid it and date locally. Because this is not for everybody. Contrary to the global advertising of the Mail Order Brides system the ugly truth shown by the statistics proves there is a big gap between having a penpal relationship and live together with the lady of your dream in your country.

 
   I am sorry to tell you this abruptly but many hillbillies will be sorted anyway by the scamming/prodating business because whatever i can explain there are many people who would like to dream and/or to date women who are not in their court.
   Professionals (coaches, relookers, psy, people who works in agencies) see tons of hillbillies and hopless. In this flow the scamming/prodating business is the natural selection tool which will prevent good girls to meet those rubes. And i have nothing again this.
   Be careful when i speak about hillbillies, it is not necessary uneducated and poor people. It can be high IQ white collar who are trapped in the dream of loving the image of love, but finally at the end there is no real relationship. And thoses things don’t only happen on internet, but also in real life, as i have seen many times around me. So guys who have great business success stories are not necessary the ones who will be exempted of a train wreck. Emotional maturity and IQ/successfu careers are not linked.
   BUT i know also there are many valuables men who are betrayed, could be good husbands and good fathers for a cross cultural family. Those guys desserves to be helped. It is why i am today writing for them. I know they are generally silent on the site, but i know they exist and i think they are quite numerous.



to be continued.
To see the whole topic in one shot : http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=16100.msg336755#new

 

[Patagonie]

Lets an eastern woman expresses herself on the topic :
Jenna
RW have their own fears about men who put out their profile on dating site...

1. of the most common - sex tourists. There is some kinda folk who to give oneself out to be man who looking true love, but they looking only sex. They just to dupe RW. But that kinda cheater not too dangerous. And them easy find out. They always to quick for trip. and they in the first letter to drop on sex.

2.  fellows - "writers or dreamers". They like to send letters. A lot of letters, calls and sms. They like to dream about their great future with his lovely russian wife... to make a lot of plans about what color walls in the nursery how they to name their future kids and so on... but they never come to russia to meet their future "wife". They have so many excuse. It can be burial some close relative, car crash, tsunami, suddenly appears incurable illness or even death.

I read one girl story. She made the acquaintance with one guy. They been in correspondence about one year. And he made a lot of promise to come to her... But he did not. When she ask him when he finally come, he said that he have no money for that trip. She broke up with him, but she lost whole year. She can meet a real man who really looking for real relationship, not virtual online wife.

Other guy just die. His friend sent her letter where he wrote that he die from cancer. It was really big letter where in every detail dude described his last day with her photo in his hand on the hospital. I'll try to find that letter and put out it, if it not break rule this forum. But in a few day happened miracle! that guy rise from the dead and again login on dating site )) She was really surprise and ask her friend to call that guy by the phone. And hid answer to this call. That no less than a miracle. Provided to be in the next world provide Internet and phone...

3. Some of that kinda guys chat with a women at the work time, but have real wife and kids at home. They just eat up women's time for fun.

4.  Other guy from site harmless - they just old mans. you know, I don't mind about it, but they send a msg a younger women. It can be 60 y.o. man who send msg for 20 y.o. woman. There are a plenty of those.

5.  Also there are many people who have some mental problem. They send RW weird msgs in which describe very poor live in Russia and present ourself rescuer and last chance poor RW to have a good live. They offend women and make a bad mood.
They have no idea that maybe that women more educated, have a good job and etc.

6. well known you scammers.

7. And finally real men who looking for a real relationship. They send nice letters, do not mind to come to Russia and will be a right person for someone RW.

to be continued

[Patagonie]

 financial parameter

 
   One of the prerequiste to success the equation is the financial parameter.

 
   We know that many will never go. But among those who arrive in FSU, half of them minimum, IMHO, don't have the means to support such adventure.

 
   What nobody will tell you on this forum is that the majority of the guys here are well off or rich. But not a lot admit it. Knowing a lot of people richer than you, you are inclined to consider that you are yourself not so rich finally. I have a theory about this, i call it the circle theory.    Depending of your status in the society you are prone to meet with people of the same status, or one or two social circles below and/or above. So very rich rarely deal with the extreme as poors rarely deal with the very rich. Add the international perspective and the scale is multiplied by ten or one or one hundred.
   I personnaly prefer to talk about decile which it the way used by many statistical offices. What is your position in the deciles ? A lot of people, in their country and in foreign countries have no real clues about abouteconomicals consequences  on social groups. 
   The purchase power concept is very important and should be understood before you go, it will avoid you to be prodated or scammed if you date internationaly. It will also help you to avoid  screwing up your relationships.
   You will meet usually people a lot of people who earn in average 350$ (Ukraine) to 800 $ (Russia) with a lot of disparity depending the location (and job). You need to print this in your head every time.



to be continued


 

[Anotherkiwi]

financial parameter

 
   One of the prerequisites to success in this equation is the financial parameter.

 
   We know that many will never go. But among those who arrive in FSU, half of them minimum, IMHO, don't have the means to support such adventure.

 
   What nobody will tell you on this forum is that the majority of the guys here are well off or rich. But not a lot admit it.[/size]

 
Pat is perfectly correct in his assessment of the wealth of many (but by no means all) of this forum's members.

[/size]

...The purchase power concept is very important and should be understood before you go, it will avoid you to be prodated or scammed if you date internationally. It will also help you to avoid  screwing up your relationships.
   You will meet usually people a lot of people who earn in average 350$ (Ukraine) to 800 $ (Russia) with a lot of disparity depending the location (and job). You need to print this in your head every time.

The $350 to $800 that Pat mentions is the monthly salary that people receive after tax - it would appear that very few people are paid weekly or fornightly in the FSU.  However, most people in the west refer to salaries on an annual basis, BEFORE tax (for example, several members have quoted a figure of $75,000 as the minimum salary anyone should be on before looking to the FSU for a bride).  If you mention those sorts of figures to an FSUW, she will generally have no idea (again, in many, but not all, cases) what that means in terms of purchasing power.  She will simply divide the $75,000 by 12 and believe that you take home $6,250 a month.
 
She doesn't know that tax will take 20-40% of that amount, depending on where you live.  Most have no concept of a "mortgage," or what it entails in a monetary sense, or the cost of house, car and medical insurance (as examples).  You might also be paying several thousand dollars a year for the child(ren) of your first marriage to go to private school or university.  Before you even THINK of mentioning any income figures to your new girlfriend, you have to convert your salary to match hers - instead of saying that you earn $75,000 (which she will automatically assume means monthly  ), you need to deduct all your expenses and come up with a net monthly figure.  That will be a much easier comparison for all concerned.
 

[ML]

Another thing that I have done with several FSUW is to approximate to them what their monthly salary would be in USA [not saying they could immediately obtain such a job].  Then, I go further and approximate for them the cost of renting something similar to their current apartment, monthly utilities, monthly payment for auto, taxes, health insurance, etc., etc.

In the end, what often results is a situation in which they would be no better off financially in USA than they are in their home country.  This is, of course, if they were on their own in USA.

[Misha]

Rich? Well off? Nah, just ordinary middle-class.

[ML]

 
Pat is perfectly correct in his assessment of the wealth of many (but by no means all) of this forum's members.

Maybe someone who knows how can set up a poll type of thingy where we can indicate our net worth within ranges.  Be interesting to see if you and Pat are correct.

[Patagonie]

 
Pat is perfectly correct in his assessment of the wealth of many (but by no means all) of this forum's members.
 
The $350 to $800 that Pat mentions is the monthly salary that people receive after tax - it would appear that very few people are paid weekly or fornightly in the FSU.  However, most people in the west refer to salaries on an annual basis, BEFORE tax (for example, several members have quoted a figure of $75,000 as the minimum salary anyone should be on before looking to the FSU for a bride).  If you mention those sorts of figures to an FSUW, she will generally have no idea (again, in many, but not all, cases) what that means in terms of purchasing power.  She will simply divide the $75,000 by 12 and believe that you take home $6,250 a month.
 
She doesn't know that tax will take 20-40% of that amount, depending on where you live.  Most have no concept of a "mortgage," or what it entails in a monetary sense, or the cost of house, car and medical insurance (as examples).  You might also be paying several thousand dollars a year for the child(ren) of your first marriage to go to private school or university.  Before you even THINK of mentioning any income figures to your new girlfriend, you have to convert your salary to match hers - instead of saying that you earn $75,000 (which she will automatically assume means monthly  ), you need to deduct all your expenses and come up with a net monthly figure.  That will be a much easier comparison for all concerned.

Absolutely correct, later in "For newbies, the optimum channel" i will speak about this.
It is why it makes absolutely any sense to speak about numerals with FSU women, because things are very different.
And the little exercise done by ML shows it.
Anotherkiwi, you are right the danger is that they divide mathematically by 12, and it is what they do !

[Misha]

Another thing that I have done with several FSUW is to approximate to them what their monthly salary would be in USA [not saying they could immediately obtain such a job].  Then, I go further and approximate for them the cost of renting something similar to their current apartment, monthly utilities, monthly payment for auto, taxes, health insurance, etc., etc.

In the end, what often results is a situation in which they would be no better off financially in USA than they are in their home country.  This is, of course, if they were on their own in USA.

I know on woman from Ukraine who left her husband, works in a number of entry-level jobs (though for a bit more than minimum wage) yet manages to send hundreds of dollars back home. She did buy a car as well. So, she is still financially better off in Canada.

[Patagonie]

Rich? Well off? Nah, just ordinary middle-class.

Misha, of course i don't know where you are in the canada's deciles.
However it is admitted that the 20% poorest are the poor class, people between 20 and 80 % are the middle class. Above 80% you find the well off and rich ones. Canadians statistics seem to work like this because the office has adopted the concept of quintile.

The last canadian survey comes from 2007. It tells us that singles earning 89000 $ (probably worth) belong to the top 5%. And those who earn more than 181000$ belongs to the top 1%.
In 2009 the last quintile started above 62800$.

So Misha i think it is quite easy for you now to know where you are in decile quintile. As single do you earn more than 63000 $ ? if yes you are not a middle class guy.

Was you aware of this numerals ? (source : governmental statistics and "le Québec économique")

[Misha]

Actually, according to Statistics Canada: "The median after-tax income for two-parent families with children amounted to $75,600, while for senior families it was $46,800."

As we are are a one income family, we actually fall below the median in terms of after tax income. As an individual, I make more than the median, but not enough to compensate for having only one income. However, with a few more deductions (my daughter) we may be close to the median next year

[Anotherkiwi]

...However, with a few more deductions (my daughter) we may be close to the median next year

You're going to deduct your daughter?????  Does your wife know that you intend to reduce the size of your household back to 2?

[Misha]

You're going to deduct your daughter?????  Does your wife know that you intend to reduce the size of your household back to 2?

LOL! Seriously, we have some tax deductions for dependents such as children.

[Patagonie]

 Would you like finish in ten years like this guy, the heart always broken ?

 

 
Ivan1971
Hello,
   Nearly 10 years ago I found a lovely Ukrainian woman. It al began with romantic love letters. In 3 months time we exchanged over 150 long letters. I just had to see her face to face. Bud I was financially out of luck in those days. Had a bad job and bills were stacking up. But still from my last money I bought a ticket from Amsterdam to Kiev. Naive as I was I thought that everything would be cheap in Ukraine anyway. And a lot of things were bud not hotels and such. Olga met me at Borispol 20 minutes after I landed. I still remember the taxi-drivers flocking around me as I was searching the big hall looking for a flinch of my dearly beloved. Bud No Olga in site. One of the man asked me "where do you want to go?" 'Krivoy Rogg' I replied. I saw the pupils of this man widen. Little did I know at the time that Krivoy Rogg was around 500 km driving, so it would make this man's year.
   Irritated and scared that Olga wasn't there I desperately went to the kiosk in the middle of the hall and asked the lady behind the counter if she wanted to announce me to Olga so she could find me.
   This was the first time I heard my name Iwan spoken out as Vanya trough the airports sounds system. Not much later Olga appeared slightly out of breath (she was stuck in traffic) seconds felt like minutes now. Instantly I lost my anger and fear, there was only joy. Maybe it sounds crazy but it really was like we were in a film and we were on slow-motion. We embraced and started a conversation that lasted for the rest of the day. We took a taxi to a friend of her and had something to eat and drink. After that Olga told me that she had found an apartment for the weekend but it wasn't very nice. I though naively that all apartments in Kiev would be crap anyway. The place was dreadful, dirty, old furniture, toilet and cold. And still I found this al very romantic.
   We both were very tired from running al day and nerves. But first we had to do some shopping. We got some food from a little store around the corner and wanted to put in on a plate but only to find out that everything was brown from dirt. So we cleaned for about 3 hours and that was only the kitchen. I remember there were pictures of naked woman on the wall above the stove. We ashumed this place was from a sailor because we found a safety vest and sailors clothes. Of course these were dirty too. The toilet had to be flushed with a big bottle of water. Bud there was a large bathtub! We heated up the chicken and Ukrainian pasta. Eat and did the dishes again. I remembered suddenly that I forgot to give Olga my present to her. So when we opened the wine I gave her the perfume. She told me her present was to be given later. Naively again I thought it would be a tour of Kiev. Finally deciding to go to sleep I went to brush and wash first. I was already sleeping when a loud cough woke me up (there might have bin a stamp on the floor) there was Olga in the doorway dressed in a blue nightdress. I didn't see that it was my present promised earlier. Still half a sleep I welcomed her into bed kissed her (for the first time) goodnight. Bud she kept kissing me and I didn't wanted to be impolite so I kissed her back. The night wasn't for sleeping at all. From the photographs the next day I can still see how tired we really were. But our feelings for each other was much stronger. For the first time in my life I felt so much love coming from her.
The next day when we finally succeed to leave the apartment I was walking on air, cloud nine or seven. Before I went to Kiev I always thought that the people here were grim and depressed. But I couldn't be more wrong. Was it us or them? I still don't know for sure. But everybody was friendly and cheerful! We went to old district in Kiev were the artist, painters, poets and writers used to live. Olga and I were drunk with love and nothing else matters. I never was more sure of in my life that Olga was the one for me. Normaly I am a patient man and calmly waiting until al my thoughts are counted for. But there was no doubt in my . So I asked her on the third day to marry me. She kindly excepted my request. I still didn't know when or where but who cares at such times anyway.
The next day we took the midnight train to Krivoy Rogg. For the first time in my life I travelled first class. A whole coupé just for us. I wish I could tell that we spent a quiet night in there but I can't. And those walls in these trains are not well isolated if you know what I mean. Early in the morning when I went to the toilet I saw an old lady in the coupé not next to us but after the next and she was looking at me amazed that I was the man who caused al that noise and then angry that she didn't slept at least nor more then we did.
I met her mother and father they were nice people. Olga herself was very good educated and her parents where pretty smart too. Mother a professor in mathematics and father an engineer in mining. Olga was teaching at the University. I could talk with them about Agatha Christy and about how they liked the flowers from Holland. It didn't took long as I felt like family with them. The love between Ola and me grew stronger every day and the days went by fast. She took me back to Kiev. We visited the old monastery and the war memorial al very impressive. I remember standing in the tower freezing my but of as it was -25 c. The next morning she took me back to Borispol and waved goodbye. That was the last time I saw here. I could hear her heart breaking and so was mine. Because I didn't just go home. I went back to reality.
I promised Olga that I would send her a ticked in 1 or months. Of course little did I know about the rules and regulation at the time. Things were not to bad though I found a job fast and started to make money. Hoping to pay of that stack of bills and then be able to get Olga here. But when you rush things it will go wrong somehow. We spook on the phone everyday. I started to develop crazy idea's and thought it would help us. But instead it made us driving apart. I didn't tell about the bills and other problems I had. Didn't want to scare her or make her lose hope. And when she found out when I confessed these things to her she became angry at me and not much later broke of with me.
Out of desperation I robbed my boss for a few thousand euro's wanted to travel straight to her and get her back. But my friend stopped me. I gave the money back to the boss and I was lucky he didn't call the police about it.
Time went by. Some days I didn't think about her. Days went into weeks but never months even when I had a new relation with someone else. Ten years later I still miss her, wondering how she is doing. Is she married, children maybe? I really want to find out.

Commentaries : And what about her ? Did she felt betrayed, abused? What do you think ? I think she felt dirty after this story. Perhaps she stopped to meet western men for ever.

 

[Faux Pas]

She was misled and lied to. Ivan got everything he deserved. Not having money is not a crime or morally wrong. Leading her to believe all was well is deception. Deception is no way to start a relationship. He should at the very least been honest and informed her that his poor financial shape would be a factor and let her decide then if it was a relationship she wanted to pursue and invest in. The fact that he resorted to stealing money just to see her further shows she made the right choice.

[Patagonie]

 If you live in the west you should consider that 4000 $ worth per month is a minimum. You can low this amount if you are an owner and pay no credit. You can low it if you live in a village and life's costs are cheap. You have to increase this amout to be comfortable, 7000 $ seems the right amount to go ahead, especially if you live in a big city. To tell you in other manner, you should be a citizen in the top 10 % of single earners minimum of a western country, ideally in the top 5 % or better. Check national surveys to understand in which decile do you belong and understand what is your position.

 
   Prices are not cheap in FSU, this is not Asia or Africa, during the dating stage you should consider between 100 and 200$ to be daily spent not including travel and rental costs, 100 $ per day is a minimum.
   After the marriage you should consider that no additional income will be bring by your wife for the next two years in most of cases. The best is to make a sheet with all incomes and expenses.
   For the testimonies i got, the US crownd who comes in Ukraine say they earn between  5000-7000 $, this is already the well off class or the upper middle class.

 
   Any newbies should know that they are expected to pay all when they are in the east. I say ALL, during the dating stage. If she buys some food or little things for you, this is a good sign. It adds a sign of interest to the list you should keep all time updatet : « is she into me ? ».
   If you are reluctant or uncomfortable to pay ALL the time, don’t go to the east and date locally.
   The RULE has to be well understood : you pay ALL. Some women are enough well off to pay their own transport flight ticket or more, they will let you know.
   Think right now that every time you do something with her you are in charge of her, and also think that when she is with you she don’t get any wages (depends if she is in vacation or not) and you would be an asshole to let her in misery (this will be probably a death kiss for ever).


To be continued

[ML]

   If you are reluctant or uncomfortable to pay ALL the time, don’t go to the east and date locally.

   The RULE has to be well understood : you pay ALL.

. . . and you would be an asshole to let her in misery (this will be probably a death kiss for ever).

Pat, I do not argue with you that the above is true, and must be understood by men.

And, I do not disagree that, in most cases, the FSUW do not have the money to pay for anything other than their own basic living expenses.

However . . . the basic concept is still repugnant to me.

For instance, in practice it can and does become something like this.

You  are out with the FSUW (even on a first date) and stop for some item of food for the two of you.   But, even without asking you, when  the order comes you find there is food for 3 or even more people.  Reason - - - she is going to take some of it home for X, Y, Z.

What is the problem - - - because the man knows he is supposed to pay ALL.

In other cases, the woman earns a lot of money, perhaps even approaching or exceeding the mans earnings.  But still, she insists the man must pay  ALL.

Now, if the man does not pay all for a similarly situated WW; is she left in misery??

I realize this is all rooted in the culture, and it matters not what I think is right or wrong.

But I still feel it SUCKS big time and is one of the worst traits imaginable for FSUW, particularly when coupled with their reluctance to say a simple Thank You.

[Tulip]

...

[Muzh]

Pat, I do not argue with you that the above is true, and must be understood by men.

And, I do not disagree that, in most cases, the FSUW do not have the money to pay for anything other than their own basic living expenses.

However . . . the basic concept is still repugnant to me.

For instance, in practice it can and does become something like this.

You  are out with the FSUW (even on a first date) and stop for some item of food for the two of you.   But, even without asking you, when  the order comes you find there is food for 3 or even more people.  Reason - - - she is going to take some of it home for X, Y, Z.

What is the problem - - - because the man knows he is supposed to pay ALL.

In other cases, the woman earns a lot of money, perhaps even approaching or exceeding the mans earnings.  But still, she insists the man must pay  ALL.

Now, if the man does not pay all for a similarly situated WW; is she left in misery??

I realize this is all rooted in the culture, and it matters not what I think is right or wrong.

But I still feel it SUCKS big time and is one of the worst traits imaginable for FSUW, particularly when coupled with their reluctance to say a simple Thank You.

Goodness gracious, where do you find these winners?

Are we talking quid pro quo? If so, no complaints please.

[Patagonie]

Pat, I do not argue with you that the above is true, and must be understood by men.

And, I do not disagree that, in most cases, the FSUW do not have the money to pay for anything other than their own basic living expenses.

However . . . the basic concept is still repugnant to me.

For instance, in practice it can and does become something like this.

You  are out with the FSUW (even on a first date) and stop for some item of food for the two of you.   But, even without asking you, when  the order comes you find there is food for 3 or even more people.  Reason - - - she is going to take some of it home for X, Y, Z.

What is the problem - - - because the man knows he is supposed to pay ALL.

In other cases, the woman earns a lot of money, perhaps even approaching or exceeding the mans earnings.  But still, she insists the man must pay  ALL.

Now, if the man does not pay all for a similarly situated WW; is she left in misery??

I realize this is all rooted in the culture, and it matters not what I think is right or wrong.

But I still feel it SUCKS big time and is one of the worst traits imaginable for FSUW, particularly when coupled with their reluctance to say a simple Thank You.

Hi ML
As you have well understood i have insisted to warn any newbies to the global move they have to do in their minds about this particularity of the dating in the east.
The demeanor induced by this eastern expectation will weigh a lot and for a long time, so men should take care of that.

Of course it is not a licence to be abused and scammed.
All around the dating should be paid by the man. Restaurant, drinks, excursion and travel (taxi, train, plane).
Food for aunt, dad is not in the book. Also as one buddy explained me : "i dated a woman and propose to come to "name of the location", she told me that she wanted to travel in first class, i dropped her like a hot patato".

When you are in progress, wen you have stepped forward in the relationship, new needs should be take in account. As i have said, if a woman take days off (not vacation) you should propose or impose your help.
The limit is here : a lot of genuine women would not like to ask, a lot of questionnables women would not hesitate to ask, inflating the amount. On an other hand the genuine you are disappointing, they risk to ditch you (when you read posts on Antidate it is clear that the possibility exists).

The exercice is really not easy and many men fail, concentrated on their toes. Of course a lot of communication, understanding and empathy is the rule, and especially in an international relationship due to the cultural differences.
But when men cannot maintain a relationship they barely never know why,  women will not tell them why.

In my book the woman who earns a lot of money (says 2000 $ and more in the east) and insists that you pay all should be ditched. Anyways women should understand that as the relationship grows and the commitment is done and the aim is a marriage, they should understand that the couple is the result of both making efforts, also financially.

ML i totally do agree about "But I still feel it SUCKS big time and is one of the worst traits imaginable for FSUW, particularly when coupled with their reluctance to say a simple Thank You."

Newbies : be prepared. I you expect a lot of astonishement and thank you every minute about an eastern woman when you bring her in the most exciting places, you risk simply to be highly disappointed. 

[Patagonie]

 What is the true motive for you to want an FSU women ?

 
 What do you think newbies of this type of ad ? </blockquote> <blockquote>kh00201001407375 </blockquote> I NEED TO MARRY PRETTY RUSSIAN WOMAN CAN ANY BODY HELP ME !An Egyptian business man seeking a stylish decent lady to be my friend, I am a 45 year old looking for a nice lady to get to know her and have a wonderful time together. I am a very outgoing person and enjoy all types of activities such as travelling , tennis , gym , cafes , restaurants, have weekend at my private chalet at red sea beach , relaxing at beach ,etc ,. My friends say I?m very outgoing but I think I?m very active person when first meeting people they feel that we know each other from long time as dear friends . I work full-time as a real estate & relocation services expert. I am very sociable and enjoy being around open minded people . If you would like to get to know me, just send me a message.

 
Commentaries : this guy want to fill his « private chalet », in the purpose to stay very active in the « chalet » every night ?
 
 
 
 
Bang in Ukraine : It is interesting to talk  about  a young guy who visited many countries and published on the web many ebooks entitled « bang in « choice the country you like » ».

 
   He had visited Ukraine and spent few months here.

 I have read his book « Bang in Ukraine »  and have mixed feelings about his work.

 
   More i read and more i got confused. I even thought sometimes : we didn’t meet the same girls, perhaps we didn’t visit the same country. But on  an other end there are things with which i totally agree .
 
 I think his whole perspective is biaised because of his motivation. I cannot imagine that  banging for years is a project. Bang is not an ultimate level, it is just put a notch for the  pua (pick up artists) communities when you game. Banging means only that you had had a real a relationship with a women. But is sex only a relationship ?

   What is obvious to me is that writer had had very little pleasure with women for the time he spent in Ukraine. The second thing i detected about his skills is his inability to detect women level of interest, which he admits it himself.
   In reading body language, i think he needs to make a stage, but i also  think, not being able  to define it accurately, that he was not showing enought value. Value in game is not a wealth perspective. Value means to be a singular an individual person who is noticed by women.
He got the concept of « sugar daddy » and starkly stated that one of the way to bang is to consider seriously to be a « sugar daddy ».
   The sugar daddy is in FSU a guy who regulary provides for a woman in exchange for a specific relationship on a financial level freely accepted by both. More popular in FSU rather in the west.
   I consider that if you don't have fun with a woman, you stay at home, simply. If you have some sexual pressure you can manage it by yourself if really necessary or pay a service.
   Bang is his leitmotiv, it explains the choice of the title (bang)» for each of his books.
   Rather than an artist (Pick Up Artist) i give him the nickname of « butcher ».
   He wrote himself « Because i consider ukrainian ladies (he dated only girls under 30 for what he wrote) as corpses, corpses you need to get back from the death, in the purpose to push them in a bed. » It is why i call him the butcher because i had had 50 meetings in three months (of full time) and i didn't meet such amount of cold meat. »

 
   One of the danger is the dehumanization for players. It is good to leave the clouds and land on the earth because i have myself been too long not knowing the real face of women, but too much game, too much sex only push you in a form of dehumanization.
   This is the threat of gaming in the way to 1/ only get sex  and-or 2/ trying to go after a result (get more notch on your cross, practicing the field to nurtur some stupid datas for statistical purposes). After reading few pages it is obvious for me that the writer suffers from such dryness.
   
   However, for the price i invite people to read it, it will give you an interesting and some original perspective.   
   He made some good statements but i disliked his dishonesty.
   For example he disarms a little bit girls asking him question about marriage, letting them believe that he can be serious about it, but he had never had such intention.
   I don't like also not at all how he pushes systematically girls to drink some alcoohol to get what he wants, it makes me puke.
   I don't like also his character which consists, with others competitors, to attack them in the eyes of the girl. I think, this is childish. You don't get elevation from such action.
   He also spent time trying to convince the girl in a way or an other to bang with him (of course lol). He tried to convince an ukrainian girl of difference in culture and what she should do. This is weird for me because this type of « logical » explanation normally doesn't work. IN the game you are never making some argument, she is interested : she is attracted or she is not. This is a mistake of beginner : try to rationnalize a girl.
 
   I have appreciated more the way he talks about the transactionnal character of Ukraine girls. Yes i think it is true for a large part. Ukrainian girls are more transactionnals than western gals. BUT, you would think that ukrainians are VERY materiatlistic. In fact i think they are more « transactionnal » (rather than materialistic ) but not a lot above the western ones at the end. The truth is that western women want almost the same, but the global desimformation lets you know that they just want egality, rights and true love. In fact they are also very sensitive as we will see thanks to David Buss' scale to the social and economical factor. Western girls put a lot of smoke around the same reality, the same feminine needs.

    He also shows lack of cleverness. At a moment he spent four hours with a student and she was telling to him that she wanted to go to Denmark.
   He needed two hours to figure out that she was in correspondance with a danish.
   One of the first thing i learnt in the international dating is to let (of course) girls speak. If a lady speaks too much about a speficic country, you know the nationality of your first competitor right the money. If you know some additional details you just need to go on the main site she goes and barely sort the few profiles which are fitting with what you know. Two times i sort out my challenger.
   It is not stupid to have a maximum of informations to assess which allure you want to adopt with her. Later you will assess if her interest for this country is always prevalent or not (in this last case it will show generally that her interest for the guy has gone, except girls who aim only ONE country).   

 
    He also has a bad opinion of Ukraine as a superior western citizen
   Let me tell you newbies that you are playing a deal breaker for any fsu women.
   This is a classical mistake for newbies. What does it show ?  It only shows disrespect for the eastern culture, which is felt as a personal lack of respect for the women.
   Eastern women are very proud and they never feel at any moment that her country is inferior in any manner to an other. You need to really understand that countries are different and those differences shouldn’t involve any quantitatives and/or qualitative comparaisons.
   He also don't have a lot of respect and empathy for people, when you have such ideas in your frame (frame is the external emotional state felt by other people of what your personality sweats)  sweats with everybody,  at all floors. He don't seems also an alpha (alpha = leader) and don't give to people, he don't seem to have fun, and when you don't have fun you don't give fun to other people, because when you are fun, when you have fun, people enjoy to share it. You give them something which is rare, believe me less and less people have fun in this society, obsessed with performance, money, appearance.
   I have also travelled and spent a lot of years abroad and i am really surprised how he can say that Ukraine is a third country. He needs to travel a little more. The fact is he hated Ukraine, mainly because, and he wrote it himself « i felt like a chump ». He considers Ukraine as one of the most difficult country to bang (NB : i didn't write « to game or to play », i wrote to bang).
   His opinion is quite interesting because i got different results having quite the opposite behavior, motivation and approach.
   He says that FSU women are really, really more skilled to read men BS. He thinks that eastern ladies have between five and ten years  of experience advance’s with men compare to western ones, i do agree.

 
   He suffered from the lack of comfort : he says that he needs normally three dates before bed a girl. And what ? This is between 5 and 9 hours of meeting, which is the standard defined by Mistery (probably the best theorician of the game). His flagpole probably needed ONS, which he never got.  As he explained : for security reasons girls will not spend the night out if they had scheduled to return at home from the scratch, the concern of the family and relatives is real. You need to be introduced if possible. I do agree again.
   It makes sense : if you have built few weeks of intense relationship by internet (Skype preferentially) all is ok but you are doing for sure a VO (visit one) or expose yourself to many problems, or you should use a professional (interpreter – agencies), to secure her.
   Also many women don't take pills, they are really less going  to abort, men rarely pay alimony, allowance is totally unknown, local men know to be sometimes brutal or more, and many stories spreaded  about sex visitors put a global suspicion, finally all of these explains why he never got an ONS.
   As a result, Newbies you should be aware of all of this, and smooth as possible your arrival in her space. IMHO you should bring to her the right signs to let her developping feelings and security beside you. It is obvious that a huge experience in socials a master plus, as eastern women  radars are very performant. So any weird things you do and you will be kicked out very quickly.

 
Conclusion : if you came to « bang » this specialist considers that Ukraine is not the right place to do such a thing and there are many countries easier to do. Bang in USA or Europe is REALLY easier in his mark.
 
 
 If you come to Ukraine for the lust you should reconsider this option, by staying in Kiev with paid relationships, it will be really better, less expansive and you will not deceit many genuine girls.

[Muzh]

What is the true motive for you to want an FSU women ?

 
 What do you think newbies of this type of ad ? </blockquote> <blockquote>kh00201001407375 </blockquote> I NEED TO MARRY PRETTY RUSSIAN WOMAN CAN ANY BODY HELP ME !An Egyptian business man seeking a stylish decent lady to be my friend, I am a 45 year old looking for a nice lady to get to know her and have a wonderful time together. I am a very outgoing person and enjoy all types of activities such as travelling , tennis , gym , cafes , restaurants, have weekend at my private chalet at red sea beach , relaxing at beach ,etc ,. My friends say I?m very outgoing but I think I?m very active person when first meeting people they feel that we know each other from long time as dear friends . I work full-time as a real estate & relocation services expert. I am very sociable and enjoy being around open minded people . If you would like to get to know me, just send me a message.

 
Commentaries : this guy want to fill his « private chalet », in the purpose to stay very active in the « chalet » every night ?
 

Uh, anything wrong with that?

Besides, he did not say he wanted to fill his "private chalet" with women, if that is what you are implying.

 

Bang in Ukraine : It is interesting to talk  about  a young guy who visited many countries and published on the web many ebooks entitled « bang in « choice the country you like » ».

 
   He had visited Ukraine and spent few months here.

The guy went to the backwoods of Ukraine trying to fcuk every single country girl he would find.

That is what I call a teenager who needs to tone down on his hormonal rush.

Or an idiot if he is not a teenager.

IOW, nothing to try to emulate.

And then there are some who have never been laid in their life and would look at this guy as some kind of hero. Heh, heh.