Marriage Process - Ukraine

[calmissile]

Another thread described an American that was attempting to get married in Ukraine that was having problems with document translation.

I had planned to write up a detailed description of the process but am currently TDY and do not have my documents with me to use as reference.   In the mean time I will provide some information as best as I can remember in the hope it might save someone the disappointment of having their marriage application/registration rejected in Ukraine.

Before even getting into the process itself, it is important to know what the legal term Apostile means and how it is used.  Basically, it is something like a super notary certification that is accepted by many countries to certify the authenticity of legal documents between various countries.  See reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostile_Convention

For those like myself that had never been required to get an Apostile certification on a document, I learned that it is a mistake to consider a notarized document the same as a document with an Apostile.  The required documents from an American (and other non-Ukrainians) requires an Apostile and it cannot be obtained in Ukraine for a document originating in the US.  Even the US Embassy cannot Apostile a document for you.

For most required documents for marriage in Ukraine, an American must bring the documents with him with the Apostile already completed.  Otherwise, you simply will not be able to get married.

For most documents that you will need, the Apostile certification will need to be obtained from the Secretary of State of the state that the document originated from.  For example, you will need a birth certificate from the state you were born in and it must have the Apostile from the Secretary of State of that state.

In order to get the Secretary of State to provide the Apostile, you generally have to have a Certified Copy of the document from the Court, County Clerk, Bureau of Vital Statistics, etc to begin with.  You then send it to them and for a fee they provide the Apostile and return the document to you.

Here is an example of just a few of the documents I had to process recently:

Birth Certificate ---   Born in Washington State,  Living in California
Original Birth Certificate - Not acceptable - Not a certified copy, over 5 years since issued, no Apostile
From California I called the Dept of Vital Statistics at the capital of Washington State.
Ordered a Certified Copy of Birth Certificate.  Paid an additional fee to have them send to Secretary of State for Apostile and return via mail back to me.   Certified copy and Apostile about $60 I think.

Divorce #1  -- California
Original court order - Not acceptable.  Judge stamped signature, not signed.  Not certified.  No Apostile.
Ordered from the court a new Certified Copy of divorce document with judges signature and Certified by court clerk.  Held document to combine with others for Apostile.

Divorce #2 -- California
Same story as above.  Bought a Certified Copy of  Divorce document and held for Apostile

Apostile -  Fortunately, the Secretary of State of California has a branch office in Los Angeles.  I personally took all documents requiring the California Apostile to L.A. and paid for the Apostile certifications.

Note:  The Secretary of State attaches an Apostile cover sheet with an offset from the original document and uses a rubber stamp that crosses the edge of the pages.  The staples are covered with a seal that reads something like 'Apostile invalid if this seal if broken'.  Apparently this is to avoid detaching the Apostile from the original docs.

Once in Ukraine, you will need to obtain a  Letter of Non-Impediment.  It is obtained from the US Embassy.  It must be filled out in English and Ukraine for both the US Citizen and proposed Ukraine spouse.  As I recall, this document then needed to be translated into Ukrainian and notarized, but my memory is not certain.

The next step is to have all required documents translated by a
Certified Translator into Ukrainian.  This includes all pages of divorce documents, Apostile cover letters, passport, and the Letter of Non-Impediment.

Once the translator has finished making the translations, each document must then be notarized by a notary in Ukraine.  The notary takes each document, complete with the Apostile and Ukraine translation and stitches them together with yarn on the left side and notorizes the translated package.

I do believe that you then are ready to go to the Marriage Registry and seek permission to get married.  Additional documents are required by your spouse, however I have not listed those since you are there and she can acquire whatever documents she needs to comply with the Ukraine marriage procedures.

You can see why it is important to understand this process in advance.  For example, going to Ukraine with documents that are certified and notorized will still not allow you to get married.  They must have the Apostile certification which can only be accomplished in the US by the specific Secretary of State of each documents origin.

Once the Marriage Registry has reviewed all the documents, you will be given the green light and asked when you wish to get married.

If you are lucky enough to be allowed to get married immediately and are in a real hurry, it could be as easy as entering the locked tiny room next to the directors office, stand in a small arch and the director will marry you on the spot!  You then cross the hall to another office and a clerk records the marriage.  Of course this method is sans wedding dress, photos,  etc. but you are legally married.    LOL

If I discover any errors when I later review this post against my records and notes I will post the corrections.

Note: This process and all it's documents have nothing to do with the visa process, it only accomplishes the marriage.  The marriage certificate you receive will need to be translated into English and notarized to be used for the visa process along with it's many other documents if that is your next step.

[ML]

Holy crap Doug . . . you actually did all of this?

Wouldn't it have been easier to just smuggle her into the USA in the hold of a freighter, or perhaps in the landing gear compartment of an airplane?

But anyway, good work.  Perhaps your listing should be posted somewhere with some permanency.

[calmissile]

Holy crap Doug . . . you actually did all of this?

Wouldn't it have been easier to just smuggle her into the USA in the hold of a freighter, or perhaps in the landing gear compartment of an airplane?

But anyway, good work.  Perhaps your listing should be posted somewhere with some permanency.

I was thinking more in terms of walking across the border with the rest of the Mexicans might have been easier.

[ML]

I was thinking more in terms of walking across the border with the rest of the Mexicans might have been easier.

Has wading across the Rio been discontinued?

[Voyager36]

For those like myself that had never been required to get an Apostile certification on a document, I learned that it is a mistake to consider a notarized document the same as a document with an Apostile.  The required documents from an American (and other non-Ukrainians) requires an Apostile and it cannot be obtained in Ukraine for a document originating in the US.  Even the US Embassy cannot Apostile a document for you.
.

Speak for yourself my American friend.  We Canadians are too primitive and unsophisticated to use Apostille.  As I recall I had to get the non-impediment letter at the Canadian embassy, but I just brought my birth certificate & passport with me to Ukraine, no special preparations

[mendeleyev]

We Canadians are too primitive and unsophisticated to use Apostille

Not really, my friend.      Canada is a signatory to the Hague Conventions which determine and govern the use of Apostille documents. You however have different requirements than US citizens: http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/ukraine/consular_services_consulaires/marriage-mariage.aspx

I was living in Russia but had to return to the USA to get the correct documents for our ZAGS wedding: birth certificate from Virginia (via a service in Richmond specializing in such documents), divorce decree from California, Apostille of my passport in Phoenix, and back then Russia demanded proof of "living registration" so I had to get creative since no such thing exists in the West--used a mortgage document and homeowners association letter for that requirement. They no longer require the living registration.

[lonedrake]

Doug,

Thank you!! This is valuable information This should get a sticky.

[Voyager36]

Not really, my friend.      Canada is a signatory to the Hague Conventions which determine and govern the use of Apostille documents. You however have different requirements than US citizens: http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/ukraine/consular_services_consulaires/marriage-mariage.aspx

I was living in Russia but had to return to the USA to get the correct documents for our ZAGS wedding: birth certificate from Virginia (via a service in Richmond specializing in such documents), divorce decree from California, Apostille of my passport in Phoenix, and back then Russia demanded proof of "living registration" so I had to get creative since no such thing exists in the West--used a mortgage document and homeowners association letter for that requirement. They no longer require the living registration.

Well I know for sure that I didn't get any Apostille, and it appears from Calmissile's Wiki link that Canada doesn't seem to participate in Apostille.
I'll have to ask Mrs. V since she took care of most of it, but we did have to go to Kiev to get a release from Ministry of Justice (IIRC?), something about getting permission for her to marry a foreigner.

[ML]

. . . getting permission for her to marry a foreigner.

Not just a foreigner.  A Canadian!!  There are certain minimum standards for anyone.   

[mendeleyev]

Well I know for sure that I didn't get any Apostille, and it appears from Calmissile's Wiki link that Canada doesn't seem to participate in Apostille.
I'll have to ask Mrs. V since she took care of most of it, but we did have to go to Kiev to get a release from Ministry of Justice (IIRC?), something about getting permission for her to marry a foreigner.

Or just click on the link I provided...   

You however have different requirements than US citizens: http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/ukraine/consular_services_consulaires/marriage-mariage.aspx

[Voyager36]

 

Or just click on the link I provided...   

Yes and a mighty helpful link it was. 
Interesting, for some reason Canadians don't have to do this BEFORE going to Ukraine, but US citizens need to get them done before leaving the US

If you were born in Canada, you must submit your birth certificate. If you
were not born in Canada, you must submit your Canadian citizenship
certificate.
This service is provided
for a fee payable in cash directly at the Embassy.
Ukrainian vital statistics authorities require that these documents be
further legalized / authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of
Ukraine

I'm just trying to remember all of the places we went too on our whirlwind tour of Kiev. 
I'm not quite sure from Calmissile's post if by "Marriage Registry", I assume he meant the ZAGS?

I do believe that you then are ready to go to the Marriage Registry and seek permission to get married.  Additional documents are required by your spouse, however I have not listed those since you are there and she can acquire whatever documents she needs to comply with the Ukraine marriage procedures.

You can see why it is important to understand this process in advance. 

Once the Marriage Registry has reviewed all the documents, you will be given the green light and asked when you wish to get married.

Anyways, what I was saying is that in addition to the man going to get documents from his embassy, he should know that she will need to go to Kiev too to get the release BEFORE going to the ZAGS. (So plan to have a few days in Kiev together to sort these things out)

[TS]

I got married in Ukraine and had to do what the guy Doug mentioned above except I had a relative back in the USA go get the documents and proper certs and mail to Ukraine.  Thats what moms are for.  Wife had to do a bunch of stuff before wedding with Zags but she handled it. 
 
If you do get married in Ukraine and when you show up at Zags after going through the bribe the relatives and friends process to jump the line at Zags and piss off the locals just do a small bribe and you have no wait and you can continue on with the 3 days of marriage celebration.  I was not going to wait 2-3 hours at zags to get married when a small donation gets you to front of line. 
 
My dad liked the marriage process in Ukraine as Zags was quick and no long church ceremony.  Plus the process before Zags was interesting and party after Zags and then the day after and the day before Zags.  The USA should adopt the Russian wedding traditions, I think I will require this for my two daughters.
 
 

[mendeleyev]

I'll mention the following only for new readers who may happen by these pages as there is some very useful information here.

Marriages in the FSU are only legal when performed in a state wedding registration office, commonly called a "wedding palace."

In Russia these go by the acronym ЗАГС (ZAGS) or Запись Актов Гражданского Состояния which is the Civil Registration Office.

In Ukraine the acronym is РАГС (RAGS) for the Department of Vital Statistics and Civil Status.

Typically the timeline is as follows:

- Wedding at the wedding palace takes place after all registration matters have been formalized. Though incredibly brief, it is generally a "formal" or "near formal" affair and nothing like a Justice of the Peace style wedding in the States for example.

- Couple leaves ZAGS or RAGS and typically visit one or more memorials or parks. Couples generally receive flowers at the wedding palace and it is a popular idea to offer some of those at war memorials, such as the tomb to unknown soldiers or heroes of the Great Patriotic War (WWII). Photos of the wedding party are taken and toasts are made.

- In many cases the next stop is at a popular park or riverbank area where more toasts are offered and more photos taken.

- Next stop is usually at a restaurant, banquet hall or home where the party begins. The party has various traditions included depending on the region of the FSU and ethnic background of the couple. Most parties are lengthy affairs and feature mountains of food, drinks, dancing, toasts, speeches, reading of poetry, guests who serenade the couple, etc.

- Many couples have a church ceremony soon thereafter to "consecrate" the wedding and make it lasting. Culturally it is easier in some cases to divorce later if no church ceremony was conducted. A church wedding is a sacrament and a priest must be consulted prior to a divorce.

- In the civil wedding there are no "best men" or "maids of honour" but there are two "witnesses" and in most wedding parties you can tell them by the sash worn across their shoulders and down to the waist.

- In the church ceremony, there are no "best men" or "maids of honour" but there are two "sponsors" who are relatives or friends of the couple and must themselves be Orthodox. These two witnesses stand behind the couple holding crowns above the couple's heads as in the Orthodox wedding the couple is "crowned in marriage" during the ceremony.

I've written here previously more wedding details and will try to find the link or perhaps add a new thread with more complete information.

Attached is a video from a Ukrainian RAGS wedding. You'll notice that the ceremony starts around 3:15 and is done prior to the 10 minute mark, yet is very formal.

[mendeleyev]

Step by step wedding in FSU:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12073.msg254556#msg254556

[lonedrake]

It appears getting married in Ukraine is easier if you have never been married before.

Getting married in Ukraine can take from several weeks to several months.  If you are marrying a non-Ukrainian, the Embassy understands that one of you must have been present in Ukraine for several months before you can register your marriage here.  If you are marrying a Ukrainian citizen, you will need to do the following:

If you have been married before, please make sure that you have either the original or certified copy of your divorce decree or your spouse's death certificate.  These documents must be property authenticated (apostilled) in the United States.
Fill out and execute a Letter of Non-Impediment to Marriage at the U.S. Citizen Services Unit.  You can download the respective form for those who have never been married and those who have been married before, but are not married now.  If you require this service, please make an appointment for a notarial using our online appointment system. The fee for this service is $50.
Authenticate the letter at the Legalization Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, located in Kyiv at 2 Velyka Zytomyrska Street.  The Ministry accepts documents for legalization Monday through Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon. Documents are usually returned the same afternoon. The Ministry's hours are subject to change without prior notice.  Please Note: If you plan to get your letter notarized and authenticated in one day, you should schedule an 8:30 a.m. appointment with U.S. Citizen Services in order to allow enough time to visit both offices by noon.

[calmissile]

Mendy,  actually you can get married in Kiev at the RAGS much like a 'justice of the peace' wedding in the US.  In fact we did!  Also, your link suggested that you probably do not need your divorce decrees since you are signing a 'letter of non-impediment'.  Unfortunately this is not true.  As ridiculous as it seems, you DO need a certified copy of every divorce complete with Apostile.  They also need to be translated and certified by a Ukraine certified translator and then notarized in Ukraine.

The marriage process you described is perhaps the traditional way couples get married, but such a complex affair is not necessary.  In looking back on our experience, it was crazy enough to pass on for your entertainment.

I had only 2 weeks available to go to Ukraine in late June.  I could not get free until after January 2014.  Both of us wanted to get married ASAP and get the CR-1 started.  I had already researched the requirements and brought with me the proper documents, properly authenticated.

My wife had already researched the requirements and we had one big obstacle.  A new law that passed a few weeks earlier no longer allowed the RAGS to bypass the 30 day waiting period after making the application for marriage.  My wife was told that the only way they were now allowed to bypass the waiting period is if the bride is pregnant!  I made the trip knowing that it was a risk that we might not be able to overcome.

I described the process we went through getting all the documents in order in my first post.  We were getting tired and frustrated with the process having to shuttle between various offices all day for a few days.  Finally we were nearing the end and only had one more document to get translated and notarized.  We had spent several sessions in the directors office and when we dropped off the last document at the notary we thought we were near the end.  We still did not know if a miracle had happened that would allow us special permission to marry before I had to leave for home.

After we left the docs at the notary, it was raining and she said "Lets go look at rings while we wait".  I said OK and we walked about 1/2 mile to a jewelry store and bought wedding rings.  On the way back we passed by the bridal shop that she previously told me she had picked out a dress but had not yet purchased it.  I asked about picking up the dress and she said something like "later".

We arrived at the notary and picked up the final document and revisited the director.  By now my wife is on a first name basis with her.  The director sat in her chair and examined the big pile of documents and said a few things in Ukraine to my wife.  With a big smile, wifey says to me "When do you want to get married?"  I then knew that she had got permission for us to marry.  My response to her was "How soon can you be ready?"  I knew that she did not yet have her wedding dress and we had not coordinated the wedding with our friends.  She asked a second time, the same question without answering mine.  I responded "Soon!"  She responded with "Now?"

I said Yes, knowing that she still needed her dress and time to get ready.  Thinking that it would still be a few days, I followed her to various offices at the RAGS and we filled out various forms.  It was all in Ukraine language and all I had to do was sign my name where they pointed at on the papers.  Upon leaving that office we went back to the directors office.  She reviewed the paperwork and they smiled.  I then asked "When are we going to get married".  My (now) wife looked at me and said "YOU ARE MY HUSBAND!"

They both then got up and led me to a small locked room.  The director unlocked the door and flipped on a boom box with wedding music.  We were led to a small arch and as we stood there, the director said a few words in Ukraine and at the proper time I got a jab in the ribs and I said "Yes, I do" to whatever was asked and we were then told we could kiss.

We were then immediately led across the hall and the clerk prepared a beautiful orange marriage certificate for us.  My head was still spinning as we left the RAGS.  I am sure I was still in shock when we arrived at the apartment.  My new mother-in-law said that she thought we were like two crazy teenagers.  I can't disagree.

One of the things I like about my wife is that she Gets Things Done!  As you might recall from my TR, she is the gal that found and rescued my luggage after Val and I could not get anywhere with the airlines in 2-3 days.  Not only did she drive to the airport and raise hell, she had it delivered to my apartment.  She told me the drivers name, the make and color of his van, his cell phone number, and what time he would arrive.  I was impressed with her from that moment on.

I don't necessarily recommend this method for taking your wedding vows, but for those that only need the legal formality, it gets the job done.

[mendeleyev]

Mendy,  actually you can get married in Kiev at the RAGS much like a 'justice of the peace' wedding in the US.  In fact we did!

 

Doug, you sure did however I'd comfortably bet money that yours was not the typical looking wedding that day. Easy bucks. My point also was that in comparison most RAGS ceremonies are not like a JP in the states wedding. From what you described the lady gave you the same ceremony, but in a rush. You got the thrills but not the frills, for the same basic fees to the State however. Never said it couldn't be done quicker or cheaper, but not by much. 

Also, your link suggested that you probably do not need your divorce decrees since you are signing a 'letter of non-impediment'.  Unfortunately this is not true.  As ridiculous as it seems, you DO need a certified copy of every divorce complete with Apostile.  They also need to be translated and certified by a Ukraine certified translator and then notarized in Ukraine.

You are right. The link is for Canadians, which was why it was the Canadian Embassy site and different from Americans as Voyager and I discussed in the context of those differences.   

The marriage process you described is perhaps the traditional way couples get married, but such a complex affair is not necessary.

The ceremony itself and the setting where it is performed has little to do with traditional or complex. The two largest factors are the clothing worn and number of guests who attend. I can get an oil change using cheap oil or expensive synthetic, but the car still goes up on the hoist. It is still an oil change and even with the more contemporary synthetic the old oil is drained out, a new filter screwed on, new oil poured in, etc. Traditional or complex in a wedding palace is largely differentiated on how much you spend on clothing, guests, music, and optional services, but the ceremony itself is a legal act and done over and over and over much the same.

A majority of ZAGS and RAGS weddings are much like that video to a varying degree. You and I both know that most guys don't care how it unfolds but the ladies set the pace, especially if it is a first wedding. Naturally some go cheaper but it has nothing to do with contemporary versus traditional as the process and ceremony is pretty much the same. The basic ceremony is the same so the biggest differences in appearance have to do with whether the couple decides to appear in nicer clothing and pay RAGS for musicians and video services.

Doug, the ceremony is largely the same. Your gal asked for the speed reading version apparently and that is your choice, but it isn't the norm. RAGS and ZAGS are cookie cutter operations, in big cities they do a hundred or more a day--over and over and over again. Same oil change, standard oil for some and synthetic for others, but all the cars go up on the hoist.

My friend, if you and I were to spend a day at a RAGS in Kharkiv or Kyiv, we'd see the same ceremony over and over, with small varying touches, to the point that by late afternoon either of us could probably stand up there and say and do the same thing those lady officials do all day long. You'd also discover that most of the couples would be dressed as nicely as they could afford.

[Voyager36]

I'll mention the following only for new readers who may happen by these pages as there is some very useful information here.

Marriages in the FSU are only legal when performed in a state wedding registration office, commonly called a "wedding palace."

In Russia these go by the acronym ЗАГС (ZAGS) or Запись Актов Гражданского Состояния which is the Civil Registration Office.

In Ukraine the acronym is РАГС (RAGS) for the Department of Vital Statistics and Civil Status.

Although I was in Ukraine, it was actually in Crimea where Russian is still used for many official functions & documents. I'm pretty sure we went to the ZAGS rather than the RAGS, although I'll have to check with the better half. 

[mendeleyev]

Although I was in Ukraine, it was actually in Crimea where Russian is still used for many official functions & documents. I'm pretty sure we went to the ZAGS rather than the RAGS, although I'll have to check with the better half.

The two are virtually one and the same, the only differences being the long name (Russian versus Ukrainian), the flag flying outside and the national emblem on the wall. Often Russians call it ZAGS even in a RAGS and that is okay just as some Ukrainians call them RAGS when inside a ZAGS, and that is okay too. 

Crimean newspapers seem to use RAGS (http://crimea.kp.ua/daily/201212/371999/) and the wedding palace in Simferopol for example lists itself as a RAGS (http://crimea.vgorode.ua/reference/company/34207/) but neither of us should lose any sleep over it, Voyager. The information was primarily as a guide to assist "newbies" and you are certainly not a newbie.

[Voyager36]

The two are virtually one and the same, the only differences being the long name (Russian versus Ukrainian), the flag flying outside and the national emblem on the wall. Often Russians call it ZAGS even in a RAGS and that is okay just as some Ukrainians call them RAGS when inside a ZAGS, and that is okay too. 

This is likely the case, Mrs V just referred to it as ZAGS. 

Crimean newspapers seem to use RAGS (http://crimea.kp.ua/daily/201212/371999/) and the wedding palace in Simferopol for example lists itself as a RAGS (http://crimea.vgorode.ua/reference/company/34207/) but neither of us should lose any sleep over it, Voyager. The information was primarily as a guide to assist "newbies" and you are certainly not a newbie.

[JayH]

Great thread and good information in it.
One thing seems to have slipped thru unnoticed on forum -- and I know he does not want a fuss made-- but congratulations to the OP are in order.Well done.

[mendeleyev]

One thing seems to have slipped thru unnoticed on forum -- and I know he does not want a fuss made

Fuss or not, Doug congrats! May you enjoy many happy years.

[Wayne]

Congratulations to both of you!
 
Actually, I did not need my birth certificate, although others did.
 
If you were never married before, you won't have to worry about the divorce papers. If you were married and divorced more than once, the last divorce is the most important.
 
There were a lot of couples waiting in line to get married. Except for us, they were all teenagers!
 
Doug, did you use the letter of non-impediment word file I sent you?  If so, perhaps you would share it with others?
 
If you marry in Simferopol, you have to be approved ALSO by the Ministry of Justice in Simferopol--because it is a separate government. You have to bring all your documents there and get their blessing. Also, if you want to use the larger, special room they asked for an additional $1000 USD.
 
The couples were all dressed well and had expensive cars all decorated up. I think mendy's description is typical.
 
Thanks, Doug, for all the information and good luck!