Another Volgograd terror bombing

[mendeleyev]

The NSA has not yet made it to Russia so we're safe for a while yet. 

[lordtiberius]

the puppetmaster strikes

Vladimir Putin vows 'total annihilation' of terrorists after Volgograd bombings
Russian president vows relentless pursuit of those behind suicide attacks as city begins to bury its dead
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10544617/Vladimir-Putin-vows-total-annihilation-of-terrorists-after-Volgograd-bombings.html

How convenient . . .

Haven't we seen this before?

[Shadow]

the puppetmaster strikes

Vladimir Putin vows 'total annihilation' of terrorists after Volgograd bombings
Russian president vows relentless pursuit of those behind suicide attacks as city begins to bury its dead
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10544617/Vladimir-Putin-vows-total-annihilation-of-terrorists-after-Volgograd-bombings.html

How convenient . . .

Haven't we seen this before?

Yes I recall a certain American President telling such words after his country was attacked.

[mendeleyev]

How convenient . . .

Haven't we seen this before?

LT, if your insinuation is that each of these were false flags, kindly supply your evidence. Please don't rant or list generalities, but give us some hard facts, verifiable upon investigation.

I get it that you don't like Vladimir Putin. Granted, for the most part that makes two of us. But you must learn to separate facts from simply hating a leader's policies because you don't agree with some of the outcomes.

Just the facts.

[lordtiberius]

Yes I recall a certain American President telling such words after his country was attacked.

agree!

LT, if your insinuation is that each of these were false flags, kindly supply your evidence. Please don't rant or list generalities, but give us some hard facts, verifiable upon investigation.

I am not a journalist - just a student of history.

Here are some folks who agree with me:


Yuri Felshtinsky


Boris Berezovsky (dead)


former KGB agent Alexander Litvinenko (murdered)


former KGB agent Mikhail Trepashkin


David Satter


Boris Kagarlitsky


Vladimir Valerianovich Pribylovsky


Alexander Lebed (dead)


John McCain: "credible allegations that Russia's FSB had a hand in carrying out these attacks"

I get it that you don't like Vladimir Putin. Granted, for the most part that makes two of us.

I am sorry, but I see very little evidence of your opposition of Putin.  It is at best a very narrow and qualified critique.



But I understand

But you must learn to separate facts from simply hating a leader's policies because you don't agree with some of the outcomes.

Quo Vadis?

What would Anna do?

  I finished Martin Smith Cruz's.

It's pretty much a love letter to Ms. Politkovskaya.  Recommend.

Just the facts.

Don't think this is a uniquely Russian problem.  But as I said, how can you pursue the facts in an authoritarian state which Russia is and America is headed?

[Shadow]

Very simple. By stopping spreading BS and false information yourself.

[lordtiberius]

Very simple. By stopping spreading BS and false information yourself.

You're welcome to refute or impeach anything I have written.

[mendeleyev]

John McCain: "credible allegations that Russia's FSB had a hand in carrying out these attacks"

So, did John McCain, of whom I grant no credibility whatsoever, really utter this about the recent Volgograd attacks?

[Shadow]

You're welcome to refute or impeach anything I have written.

Sorry, I can not hande that much text.

[jone]

Mendy,

Of John McCain:

Of course he didn't.  LT claims a Red Flag.  I project that this is more of his Red Herring.

[lordtiberius]

So, did John McCain, of whom I grant no credibility whatsoever, really utter this about the recent Volgograd attacks?

You misunderstand me.  Senator Warmonger spoke of the apartment bombing attacks of the late 90s that Yeltsin and Putin used as causa belli for the Chechen War Redux.

Not every terrorist event is a false flag attack.  But we do know that Russia has carried out false flag attacks.  We know NOW that the Syrian gas attack of last year was a false flag by Al Nursa - the allies of President Barack Obama. 

Can we please start thinking critically abut what Russia has done in Chechenya?  It invaded a country that do not want to be ruled by Moscow (what a coincidence).  It has stolen their natural resources, bombed cities that were pro-Russian, engaged in genocide, killed their leaders and yet we still see the Russians as the victims?

No one knows conclusively who carried out the Volgograd attack or why.  I am asking you to challenge the government view of the events - to think critically and to treat with skepticism the utterances of this brilliant KGB agent.

[mendeleyev]

Can we please start thinking critically abut what Russia has done in Chechenya?  It invaded a country that do not want to be ruled by Moscow (what a coincidence).  It has stolen their natural resources, bombed cities that were pro-Russian, engaged in genocide, killed their leaders and yet we still see the Russians as the victims?

Start?

You haven't been reading apparently. I've long held and written on my views about the Russian attempts to conquer the Caucasus. In fact in this thread I've written that Russia is reaping what they're sown.

However you, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, etal, need to understand the difference between independence for the people of the Caucasus and the current Islamic attempts to steal that revolution in order to create an Islamic Republic whose goal would be to conquer Russia for the glory of a child-molesting prophet. The war that Russia fights against the radicals is one of survival and frankly, that is a war worth fighting because the radicals are going to fight no matter what Russia does.

Today, to release the Caucasus to independence, would mean the dreams of real freedom loving and good people would be stolen by the radicals who have taken over and the creation of another Iran in the middle of Russia. Your Washington idiots fail to understand that the distinction between the true freedom aspiring people of the Caucasus region and the radicals who now control that region.

Yes, I do blame Bush, someone who got my vote, for part of this mess. It was his CIA that propped up the rebels as the idiots on the Potomac thought it to be a bright idea to cripple Moscow in order to obtain oil resources via the Caucasus as an "end around" Moscow. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Had that not happened, much of the fighting in Chechnya would have never occurred. The very fact that Moscow still tried to maintain relations with Washington should cause McCain and his pals to fall down and worship at Russia's feet. That stupid and misspelled "reset" button would have never been needed had Washington learned not to meddle in affairs they often don't fully understand.

Stop blaming Russia for every little ill in the world. The Biblical admonition of removing the beam in your own eye before pointing out the spec in your brother's eye is very appropriate in US-Russian relations.

[mendeleyev]

The sad fact is that Russia and the USA are natural allies. They were in history and could be again, but Washington always wants to assume the "missionary position" in every relationship and seldom allows her mistresses to think about their own back yard. Moscow does not have to march to the tune of DC stupidity with every drumbeat.

Friends compromise for each other. The strong man seeks to dominate. Should Washington ever learn that lesson, a thaw could come quickly.

[lordtiberius]

So just to some up what you have said, everything is our fault (Bush, Cheney, et al) and just because the Muslims worship a child molestor that makes them untermensch? 

No offense, Mendeleyev, but that argument is not only getting old but its pathetic

[mendeleyev]

No, you apparently don't read well during the holiday season. I have repeatedly said that Russia is reaping what she has sown. I have also however pointed out the complicity of the USA in this mess.

its pathetic

Yes it is and so Washington should stop or we'll have to continue calling it out. What is also pathetic is when some can't separate their patriotism from common sense realities. That is a dangerous state of ignorant bliss for citizens of any country.

[lordtiberius]

I have also however pointed out the complicity of the USA in this mess.

Yes it is and so Washington should stop or we'll have to continue calling it out. What is also pathetic is when some can't separate their patriotism from common sense realities. That is a dangerous state of ignorant bliss for citizens of any country.

I am curious Mendeleyev, how is this our fault?  Did our Obama Spy network do this?  Maybe our Obama Defense Department?  Our our Obama Foreign Service? 

They can't even manage a website and you are blaming them for the Volgograd killings?  Interesting . . . tell me more

[mendeleyev]

you are blaming them for the Volgograd killings?

When was the last time my friend went to an eye doctor? It is way past time, LT. They have this cool chart with letters on it and I think you'll be amazed at all the fuzzy lines they've put into a simple looking chart.

It should be pretty obvious that I believe that Muslim radicals are responsible for both Volgograd bombings.

[lordtiberius]

You accused the American government of being complicit in their crimes.  Put up or shut up, Mendy. 

And how radical can these Muslims be when you kill their leaders and commit genocide against their people?

How can you defend a regime that finances evil all around the world?

Whoever decided that Sochi would be a good place to hold the Olympics is an idiot.  The Caucuses kill journalists every year.  Ask Akhmednabi Akhmednabiev.

http://theundiscoveredcountry.blogspot.com/2014/01/akhmednabi-akhmednabiev.html

[mendeleyev]

You accused the American government of being complicit in their crimes.  Put up or shut up, Mendy. 

I accused the American government of meddling in the Caucasus. I did not accuse the Americans of the bombing in Volgograd.

And how radical can these Muslims be when you kill their leaders and commit genocide against their people?

Two answers:

- Again, the Russians are reaping what they've sown in that region over the last several generations. Genocide? Absolutely.

- How radical can they be? Don't make the mistake of assuming that the average person on the street is the same as the radical rebels. There is a difference between someone with nationalistic views and a radical who wants to create an Islamic state, and in fact they can't ultimately be one and the same as the two outcomes are very different.

Had Boris Yeltsin been confident that the Caucasus regions would leave the CCCP in the same manner as Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan left, he'd have opened the door. Yeltsin knew that a terror powder keg was ready to explode and independence would not have achieved independence at all. Now we can, and should, blame Russia for creating that problem in the first place. But there are times when it is inappropriate to let a Genie out of the bottle.

Simpleton's think that the solution is to just let go. Letting the Caucasus go would not achieve a peaceful solution but rather fuel a regional terror because of the people who have gained control locally. A more complicated solution is needed and my guess that it will only be sought after Putin is gone. But the Bush administration solution was not designed for freedom either, it was designed to benefit NATO countries at the expense and stability of Russia.

And no, all the leaders have not been killed. Were that true we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[lordtiberius]

I accused the American government of meddling in the Caucasus. I did not accuse the Americans of the bombing in Volgograd.


Two answers:

- Again, the Russians are reaping what they've sown in that region over the last several generations. Genocide? Absolutely.

- How radical can they be? Don't make the mistake of assuming that the average person on the street is the same as the radical rebels. There is a difference between someone with nationalistic views and a radical who wants to create an Islamic state, and in fact they can't ultimately be one and the same as the two outcomes are very different.

Had Boris Yeltsin been confident that the Caucasus regions would leave the CCCP in the same manner as Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan left, he'd have opened the door. Yeltsin knew that a terror powder keg was ready to explode and independence would not have achieved independence at all. Now we can, and should, blame Russia for creating that problem in the first place. But there are times when it is inappropriate to let a Genie out of the bottle.

Simpleton's think that the solution is to just let go. Letting the Caucasus go would not achieve a peaceful solution but rather fuel a regional terror because of the people who have gained control locally. A more complicated solution is needed and my guess that it will only be sought after Putin is gone. But the Bush administration solution was not designed for freedom either, it was designed to benefit NATO countries at the expense and stability of Russia.

And no, all the leaders have not been killed. Were that true we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Despite our disagreements M, I really respect and like you.  I am going to try not to troll here.  If I am trolling you have to tell me.  So this is revision number five,

1) but can you please show me evidence of US meddling in the Caucuses?

Honestly Barack cares more about living gay guys than he does about dead journalists.


2) Can you point to what the Bush Administration said or did in the Caucuses that you find offensive?

Thank you.

[lordtiberius]

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2013/dec/30/every-terrorist-attack-in-russia-since-1991-mapped?CMP=twt_gu

Every terrorist attack in Russia since 1991 mapped

[Shadow]

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2013/dec/30/every-terrorist-attack-in-russia-since-1991-mapped?CMP=twt_gu

Every terrorist attack in Russia since 1991 mapped

Now get a map of the USA with all terror attacks in the same time, and how they were reacted to, and then consider how the reaction would be.

[lordtiberius]

Now get a map of the USA  . . .

You do it.