Moscow City Crime Statistics for June 21 – June 26*

[Adel]

Crime Total / Solved

Murder 7 / 2

Assault 17 / 6

Robbery 221 / 73

Rape 4 / 2

Theft (total) 791 / 222

Apartment burglaries 195 / 12

Fraud 69 / 42

Car theft 38 / 15

For the Record

Car accidents 196


    a) killed 15


    b) injured 224


Public drunkenness 3,243


    a) detained overnight 937


Suicides 19


Missing persons 42


Bodies discovered 78


*City police said that due to technical problems, statistics were missing for June 20.

Source: Moscow police

[docetae]

7 murders in 5 days for a little more than 10 millions of people ? Scary !

[BillyB]

7 murders in 5 days for a little more than 10 millions of people ? Scary !

That's 7 KNOWN murders. Who knows how much out of 42 missing persons and 78 bodies discovered will end up being classified as murders?

[docetae]

That's 7 KNOWN murders. Who knows how much out of 42 missing persons and 78 bodies discovered will end up being classified as murders?

living in Canada these numbers seems really high ... I understand better now why appartement doors have so many locks in Russia...

[chivo]

first of all the numbers are skewed. its a well known fact in Moscow that the police "cook" the numbers to show that they're actually doing something besides taking bribes from people (mostly other Russians BTW). do not believe what you read, or at least take it with a grain of salt.

I'm not really sure where you're going with all this Moscow talk adel? i mean Moscow has problems like any other world class city, but if any of you believe that there is more street crime here than in any major city in the US for instance, then you just don't know the reality of it.

compare even these BS numbers to what you find in New York, LA, Chicago, Miami, etc.,etc. and then me what you see. also, how about that fact that just about everyone and his sister has a gun there (the US).

if you're murdered in Russia you can be about 99% sure someone wanted you dead, so yes be careful who you piss off. but in the US, random killings are an everyday occurrence, not to mention all the other crap (robbery, assault, etc.) that goes on.

if anyone thinks its safer in the US compared to Russia, you just don't know the facts. peace out.

chivo

[BillyB]

Solving 2 out of 7 murders a week is nothing to be proud about. I doubt the cops cooked that number unless they solved only one or none of those murders.

[chivo]

ok, but what is your point?

yes people get murdered here, but many of the numbers are cooked. the fact is that their is every possiblilty that they didn't solve any murders at all, maybe they did. point is if they didn't, they still have to look good. and if you believe the police here...well you did drop 400-500 ru on taxi rides here that cost 1/4 of that typically

i don't contend thats its positive, only that it is what it is. and compare the murder rate here to any major city in the US and then tell me about the numbers or being proud.

i suspect that you're still irritated at the fact that i pointed out to you that you spent to much money when you were in Moscow or didn't even know the Bolshoi has been closed for renovation since July '05. but who really cares what any of us think in the long run. peace out

chivo

[Turboguy]

First off I think it is interesting that they have more bodies than missing people.  I would gusess in the usa we have 100 missiing people for every body we find.   Even if you add the missing people to the murder number you still have more bodies.   I guess it just goes to show how many people there are there that no one really cares about.

My gut feelings are that murders solved has little to do with who actually killed the person. 

[andrewfi]

Guys don't be misled by the figures. These are a weekly snapshot. It does not mean, for example, that there were seven murders in that week and two of them have been closed already!

On the balance sheet are 7 new murders on the debit and two cleanups on the credit. Next week there may be 0 murders and 20 cleanups.

These figures mean nothing unless  placed into the context of a time series. Have a look at the annual figures and then compare them to previous years and other places.

I am with Chivo on the safety issue. One is almost certainly safer on the streets of any given Russian city than on the streets of a US city and for the reasons given. Apart from the small, but growing, skinhead issues where violence against minorities takes place, random acts of violence are pretty rare outside of the immediate family.

A large number of the dead bodies will be bomzhi and a large number of the missing people will turn up. They always do. Some of the missing will be bomzhi and they will be dead.
It is cheaper to dump an aged rello's body than to arrange a funeral.
I bet the missing figures go up quite a lot in the winter and many of the missing get 'found' after the thaw.

[BillyB]

ok, but what is your point?


i suspect that you're still irritated at the fact that i pointed out to you that you spent to much money when you were in Moscow or didn't even know the Bolshoi has been closed for renovation since July '05. but who really cares what any of us think in the long run. peace out

chivo

My point is that the numbers to make the police look like their doing their job is nothing to be proud about. I didn't disagree that the numbers were made up by the cops. There could very well be more murders and less solved on average. This could be the worst week ever for the cops and someone decided to report it as if it's an every week occurrence. Regardless, those numbers are nothing to be proud about.

Irritated about paying taxi fare and theater tickets? It seems to be on your mind more than mine. It doesn't matter if Bolshoi theater is closed for renovation. I stated a fact that the tickets need to purchased months ahead of time and I didn't do that so that is the main reason I didn't go. You seem to forget my fiancee lives in the FSU and knows how the taxi system works and knows she needs to do all the talking when negotiating a fare. Also you are telling me what a taxi fare in Moscow is without knowing how far I travelled or how long the ride takes. Every one of my taxi rides took 30 minutes to 1 hour. I doubt anybody would charge me 100 roubles ($4) for those rides. $4 isn't much when a guy goes a half hour out of his way and potentially must take another half hour to get back after dropping me off. The minimum charge I paid was 300 roubles from one guy and after realizing his blunder, he decided the slow crawl wasn't for him and he went into oncoming traffic to speed things up. When you're being turned down and denied a ride for 20 minutes from multiple people who do not want to give you a ride for under 500 roubles, you either take another chance potentially waiting on the sidewalk another 20 minutes for a ride under 500, or you pay the 500 after figuring out that it may be a normal fare for the distance since all common citizens won't go below that amount no matter how hard a Russian can haggle, or you walk home pissed at Muscovites because you believe they are ripping you off since Chivo said a ride in Moscow is 100-125 roubles no matter where you're going.

[chivo]

yeah you're right what do i know? i only live here and have taken over 100 rides from people off the street to every corner of Moscow. I'm sure people coming to Moscow in the future would definitely be better served listening to someone who has been here once. and really if you have to walk home pissed because no one will give you a ride, how far do you possibly have to go? ridiculous.

couple of points:

first, with regards to paying what you paid for rides around town. yes i didn't know where you were going, but i assume it was dropping you off at your hotel or apt. the last time i flagged a car to SVO2 it cost me 600ru (about an hour ride without traffic). DME was 800ru and thats 75 minutes from my house without traffic. so unless you're staying at a hotel by these airports, or need to take rides that are over 30 minutes to an hour without traffic, which if visiting Moscow for the first time would be absurd, you shouldn't pay these prices. most of the places you will visit, especially a first timer, should, would, be relatively close to the center, which BTW, a decent apt runs about $60-75 per day, by the Arbat no less.

just where exactly are you going everyday that takes this much time to get too? i cant imagine where a 1st time visitor would be going EVERYDAY by car that would take 30min-1hr.
 
as i said i flag cars constantly, i know what i pay. but don't take my word for it, just give me the 4-500 ru the next time you come to Moscow and let me negotiate your rides, i can use the extra money.

its not about time but distance. if you go in rush hour traffic (while on vacation ), then a short ride can possibly take you 30 min to an hour of course. then again im assuming that you were headed to your hotel or apt everyday after your activities, maybe I'm wrong here.

obviously you don't want to travel during rush hr. unless you absolutely have to. wait the extra hour or so and let it pass. rush hr is no different here, 4-7pm. still the price doesn't change, but of course your travel time will.

besides all the rides Ive taken, i have negotiated numerous rides for my lady friends from my house regularly, some who live over 30 km from me and NEVER have paid what you talk about...never!!! (these rides cost 200-250ru, but again from the Kremlin to anywhere around the Garden Ring, if you pay more than 100ru, youre paying to much). these rides take over 30 min without traffic BTW. is it possible to pay more? judging by you yes, but not for me, and Ive never had to wait over 5 min. for a ride, ever!! sometimes cars are 4-5 deep waiting to negotiate with me should the previous car decline, especially in the busy areas of town.

you can continue to pay this if you ever come back, but for anyone else who doesn't have money to burn, you should pay no more than 200-250 ru to anywhere this side of the airport from the center, say the Kremlin, and 100ru inside the Garden Ring as i mentioned earlier..period!!

now about the Bolshoi and being irritated. i wished you good luck on a post about your trip to Tashkent and offered some tips about Moscow should you return, or for anyone coming this way who could learn from it. usually when I'm given well wishes and advice that i can used i thank the person as you did to others in your trip report. that you chose to ignore anything i said there and chose to respond to my post in this thread not only negatively, but irresponsibly putting words in my mouth which i never mentioned (proud of the murder rate? did i ever mention being proud of anything?...no. did i offer some absolute facts about it? yes... cut me a break) well, was strange to say the least. I'm no Dr. Phil but you do the math. and yes no big deal, just an observation.

it also didn't matter if you would have bought your tickets in June of '05 BTW, the Bolshoi is closed, has been since then. this is information that visitors should know coming to Moscow because the Bolshoi is on top of many lists as a place to visit. also, you can scalp tickets even if you didn't buy them ahead of time just like in the US, which i didn't realize myself the 1st time i went thinking i couldn't get in. now while this advice didn't sink in to you, hopefully it will alert others to some options available?

this isn't a pissing contest. this isn't about "i told you so". this is about helping people headed this way when and where we can regardless in what context. i live in Moscow. i know things that you and anyone else wouldn't obviously know by not living here. if i visit a place in the US (where i have lived all my life), but am unfamiliar with, i want to know things that will help me, only natural, because even though i know LA like the back of my hand, it doesn't mean i know Chicago or New York the same way.

no one was stepping on your ego....but who knew you were so sensitive. good luck and peace out.

chivo

[BillyB]

Chivo,

Me sensitive? You just wrote a thousand words on my behalf. I never said you are proud of the murder rate, (now I know where bad feelings are coming from). Re-read my posts again and I said the police has nothing to be proud about if they made up those numbers. I didn't intentially ignore your post in my trip report.  That was an accident and I will apologize for that.

My fiancee has been know to turn down taxi rides in Tashkent that cost 75 cents and walk me 3 blocks down the street to get a taxi that will take us somewhere for 50 cents. She sure did not like to pay all those roubles but after 20 or more minutes waiting multiple times, I told her we are wasting our vacation and go ahead and pay a little more. Money was not an issue with many drivers becasue after they heard where we wanted to go and they didn't even want to give us a ride as if it was a hassle for them more than anything. I stayed in the Cosmos hotel and most places I went in Moscow had rush hour traffic all day it seemed like. Next time I go to Moscow, I'll PM you for some tips or invite you along for a taxi ride or two.

[chivo]

well if you stay at the Cosmos Hotel (or anyone for that matter), you wont have very far to look because i live about 3 minutes from there, walking. the area is VDNKh. so yes give me a shout next time and well share a ride or two and ill show you what i mean (i can get across town for 150-200ru.).

also the metro is also right across the street from the hotel and during rush hr is actually much more time efficient and relatively easy to use even for first time visitors as much of it is in English too. i always take the metro during rush hr...always. good luck and peace out.

chivo

ps many times over the computer you really have to explain things in order that your words arent taken he wrong way, which as you know can be often. so what can be easier explained in person gets drawn out in text. ciao

[jb]

Hummmm,  The Cosmos is a decent hotel, or at least it was when I stayed there about 8-9 years ago.  What is it, about a 3 Star? It's very popular with the visiting Academic types who come to spend time at Moscow State University.

It's also nearby our flat, (Ramenka), which overlooks the 1980 Olympic Villiage.  Maybe a 10 minute walk IIRC.  Next time I'm in town maybe we can stroll down for a Baltica.

[Turboguy]

The Cosmos is my favorite hotel in Moscow.  I have been there probably about 8 times and may be there in a few weeks.   It was built 26 years ago for the Olympics and is French owned.  The keep it up nicely. The rooms facing the front have a great view.  The metro is right across the street and the shopping area just beyond the Metro station is fun to wander around in.  The rates are not too bad and the people are fairly accomodating.  There is a swimming pool, a bowling alley and lots of restaruants and bars.  Nice place.  I would recommend it.

[coco]

...FRENCH OWNED...well that was it so far for jb

[BillyB]

I don't know if the Soviets would've let the French own a hotel on their turf in 1980 but the Cosmos Hotel was designed by French Architects and there is a statue of Charles de Gaulle out in front. It's rated as a 3 star at the moment.

I would say the rooms are 3 star and the rest of the hotel 4 star and the hookers that frequent the pub 3 star in looks. One of their better restaurants is located on the top floor with excellent service.

Chivo, I did take the metro and that was an experience. The escalators were the longest I've ever been on with massive amounts of people traveling by way of metro. Moscow's metro dwarfs Tahskents metro.

[Turboguy]

I am not sure if it was french owned in 1980 but you are right it was French built and it was French owned the first time I stayed there in 1996.  I will go along with the 3 star rooms and the 4 star hotel.  Hookers, yes, for the most part 3 star.  I did run into one 5 star hooker there.  She was the only hooker I ever proposed to but she turned me down, darn.

Moscows metro system was built for dual purpose.  Transportation and as bomb shelters.  That is why they are so deep.  I love Moscow's metro system.  It is a great way to travel.  Last time I was there I could not find my metro map.  Being in the metro in rush hour without a map was a challenge.

I think I said before I might be there in a few weeks but I ended up booking at the Ukraina which is not in the same league in my book.

[Captmonk1]

Moscow Sees Rise in Violent Crime — Prosecutors
Created: 12.01.2006 11:12 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 11:12 MSK


MosNews


Prosecutors in Moscow said Thursday the number of violent crimes committed in the capital had risen in 2005.

“Nine hundred and fifty-six murder cases alone were filed in 2005, which is 200 more than in 2004,” a spokesman was quoted by RIA Novosti as saying. In comparison, police in New York and London reported about 515 and 200 murders in their respective cities in 2005.

According to the statistics provided by Moscow’s prosecutors, 218,000 crimes were registered in 2005, compared with 205,000 crimes in 2004.

However, the number of crimes solved increased, the spokesman said.

“The crime detection rate increased by 10 percent and reached 76.8 percent,” he said.

The statement was made a day after a 20-year-old skinhead burst into Moscow’s main synagogue and stabbed eight people with a hunting knife before he was disarmed. Five victims of the Wednesday synagogue attack were still staying in hospitals on Thursday morning, three of them in a serious condition, Interfax added.


So Moscow 956 Murders in 2005

Only stat I found for New York was 2004 and 2003:

New York had 570 slayings in 2004 and 597 in 2003

[chivo]

I also workout at the fitness center at the hotel. pretty nice facility. this is another thing that is mega expensive in Moscow compared to the US. for instance, i pay 29000ru (do the math, the ruble was at 28+ at the time, but still over $1000) for a year to workout there and use of the facility, and this was the cheap rate as the rates change according to the time you visit. i have to get there before 5pm otherwise add another $400 per year. my membership in California by comparison (Bally's) was $150 per year. still the gym is quite busy with Russians. i think guests pay 290ru if you want to use the facility per day.

its funny, when i started going to the gym, i remember during one of my first workouts there looking out at the statue in between sets, (and since most of the statues in Moscow and all of Russia for that matter tend to be of Lenin, Pushkin, etc.) and thinking to myself "man that statue looks a lot like Charles De Gaulle", and wondering why on earth they would have a statue of this guy of all people there, until i found out later that the hotel was designed by the French for the 1980 Olympics. OK, it made since then.

Turbo, i have stayed at the Ukrainia and would agree that the Cosmos is slightly better overall. The Ukrainia has a better location (close to the Arbat and closer to the center for example) and better hookers , but still overall Cosmos gets the nod from me too.

about the Metro, it can be confusing, especially to first time riders. all the vagons (train cars) have plenty of maps in them, in English as well, so when you're riding you can navigate your trip better. it suggested here that everyone who visits Moscow ride the metro, not only for the experience, which is good, but because of its efficiency and low cost. just a great way to get around town, especially in the center and during rush hr.

jb, anytime you're in town let me know and we'll get together, no problem. im right off Yaroslavskaya Ulitsa right behind the hotel. im sure you know the area.

Capt, im not going to debate this anymore. you and anyone else can think what you want about crime here including murder. there is absolutely no doubt that its more, much more common in big cities in the states, this article notwithstanding.

that incident made big headlines here because its so uncommon. notice to that the attacker used a knife, not a gun and most of the victims if i recall lived. compare that to attacks in the states (mostly, if not all with a gun) and then tell me. and if you believe those stats im selling the Brooklyn Bridge for a good price...interested?

i will say it one more time, if you are murdered in Russia, 90% of the time someone wanted you dead. random killings while they do obviously happen, are rare. not to mention most people just dont own guns and while being attacked by a knife isn't my idea of a good time, ill take my chances as opposed to a gun. again, believe what you want. enough said. good luck and peace out.

chivo

[Turboguy]

I agree with you the Ukraina seems a bit dumpy where the Cosmos does not.  Also there is no air which was obvious to me on my last visit which was late July early August of last year.  I never had a chance to check out the hookers at the Ukraina but I will take your word for that.  I think I may have a fair amount of free time on this visit. I will scout around and let you know if I agree.  I know both the gals I had hoped to meet are going to be on vacation and out of town during my short stay there.  I agree with you about location.  That was probably the reason I picked it this time over the Cosmos.  The trade off is if you have not done it finding your way to the Kievskaya metro station from the Ukraina is not easy where a blind man could find his way from the Cosmos to the VDHK.

I have to agree with Chivo.   When you are in Moscow you really should figure out the metro and travel that way as much as you can.   It is not hard.  Get a map though.  Once you come through the turnstyles there are no maps except in the cars and if it is rush hour getting within 10 feet of them can be tough.  The time I did not have my map I spent a half hour riding back and forth between two stations just trying to get close enough to a map to figure where I wanted to go.  Once I have been there a few days I don't even have to look at the map unless I am going somewhere new.

The other thing about Moscows metro that can be tough is often you come out of the train and there are several exits to the street.  Take the wrong one and you will may find yourself somewhere that does not look anything like what you expected.  Also the train stations with multiple connections can be almost like a maze.  If you goof, the fare is cheap.  Just go back in and go where you know.  A lot of people seem scared of Moscow's metro.  Do it.  Once you get onto it you will love it.  The sightseeing is also great.