How to feel sure you want to meet someone, without getting 'too close' online?

[Dolmetscher007]

I read a lot of articles and online forums, and I have definitely seen a large number of guys who fall "in love" with a girl over the internet/phone/message. Typically, I can tell that a guy has fallen too hard for a girl he's never actually met, when he starts posting threads on forums about how some girl forgot his bday... or he tells her he's going to the doctor, and she doesn't think to ask the next day how that all went.

The guy starts asking things like... "I told her it was my Bday, just two day prior, and she STILL didn't even message me on my Bday to say Happy Bday. I not only called her on her bday... but I sent her flowers!!! Should I just "break up with her?"

And then, of course, the keyboard tough guys pound on the poor guy for being a chump. I know this whole scenario so well... because I have BEEN this guy before. But... I would love to ask you guys... Don't you think it is pretty damn difficult to decide whether or not you want to spend $5k on a 2 week trip to [insert country] to meet a girl... but at the same time... keep enough distance and casualness... that you don't kind of "fall in love" a little?

The reason I'm asking this is...

The girl I've met seems great!!! She's fun. She's funny! She's smart. She's beautiful. And most of all... we really seem to click! Like... we don't just "click for a couple of foreigners."  I mean... when we talk, even during our first conversation, it seemed like we'd known each other for years. So... I've decided to go meet her in October. Plans are made.

However... recently... I do not 100% feel like I trust her. It feels like she does not tell me... everything. I'm not even talking about anything major. I just mean... sometimes her stories don't seem to "add up." For example... She and I have talked on the phone to, at least, say good night... every night for the past 3 months. Last Sunday... we messaged each other at 8:30 AM (my time) 3:30 PM (Minsk time). We were just checking in on each other's plans for the day. She said at 3:30 pm (her time) that she was on her way to meet her friend Julia in a cafe. I told her my plans... and we wished each other well.

I did not hear from her at all that night. This is very unusual for "us" but... to be honest... I am just NOT the kind of guy who gets all worked up if a lady goes to sleep without sending me a Night-Night text. I just assumed she went home after the cafe and went to sleep that night without thinking to message me. But then the next day... she messaged me from work in the morning. And she said that she did not get home until late last night.

None of that bothered me. I didn't even think about it. But then... this evening when we finally DID talk on the phone... our conversation was nice. But... it was crystal clear that she was NOT telling me everything. She had told me before that this friend she was going to meet has been acting strange lately. So... when I asked her about how it was... she launched right into how... "Yeah... we just do not have the same connection we once did. I don't know what is wrong with her lately."

But then... I started going the math... and I was like... "Wait... so... you met her at 3:30 in the afternoon... and you didn't get home until late... but... you didn't even enjoy spending time with her?" I wasn't asking her this with any kind of agenda... at this point, it was really just an off the cuff question. I know that if I met someone at, let's say 4:00 in the afternoon... and I just no longer felt the same connection with them... I would not hang out with the person until late at night... on a work night. Hmm... So... I just asked what time she did get home. She said... "I think it was after midnight."

So... She spent 9 hours... chatting with a friend she doesn't even... no way! But... I didn't say anything. I must admit, I do not think of this woman as my concrete GIRLFRIEND... or someone who I feel comfortable asking deep detailed questions about "where she was... who she was with... how long she was there." etc etc. It just seems like... her business.

But... at the same time... do I want to spend the time/money/energy to go meet a woman when I just... can't help but feel like she isn't always throwing straight dice? I have my suspicions as to what the issue might be. I don't think it's something like... she's seeing some other guy... etc. I think it is much more silly. Like... I think she likes to go out for drinks with her friends... and she doesn't want me to think she's an alcoholic or a party girl.

I know I gave you guys a very concrete example here with this lady. But... if it is at all possible... I'd really appreciate it if you could not focus on the granular details of this example. I am more interested in what you guys think about the umbrella question, ,that is... "How do you decide a girl is worth the huge effort of going to meet her, without just getting all serious over the phone... first?"

Like... I don't feel like I have the right to level with this girl and tell her I don't trust that she is always honest with me, when she doesn't really OWE me 100% honesty about every detail. But at the same time... it's hard for me to feel excited about going to meet a girl who may not have the same relationship with "the truth" that I do.

[ML]

I know exactly what you are talking about.

This morning my wife told me she had slept well all night long.

But I know for a fact that she turned over in bed twice.

I am wondering if I can believe anything she says.

[I/O]

I know exactly what you are talking about.

This morning my wife told me she had slept well all night long.

But I know for a fact that she turned over in bed twice.

I am wondering if I can believe anything she says.

Minor concern. When she's says you give her a lump in her throat, she's definitely lying. Move out...😉

As for Ol' mate trying to figure it all out, well, FWIW, 5k is a drop in the bucket in this caper. Go trippin' if you get lovin' it's a bonus, if not, you've seen a bit of the world and you're wiser. That's about as "involved" as you need to be at this point.

[Trenchcoat]

I read a lot of articles and online forums, and I have definitely seen a large number of guys who fall "in love" with a girl over the internet/phone/message. Typically, I can tell that a guy has fallen too hard for a girl he's never actually met, when he starts posting threads on forums about how some girl forgot his bday... or he tells her he's going to the doctor, and she doesn't think to ask the next day how that all went.

The guy starts asking things like... "I told her it was my Bday, just two day prior, and she STILL didn't even message me on my Bday to say Happy Bday. I not only called her on her bday... but I sent her flowers!!! Should I just "break up with her?"

And then, of course, the keyboard tough guys pound on the poor guy for being a chump. I know this whole scenario so well... because I have BEEN this guy before. But... I would love to ask you guys... Don't you think it is pretty damn difficult to decide whether or not you want to spend $5k on a 2 week trip to [insert country] to meet a girl... but at the same time... keep enough distance and casualness... that you don't kind of "fall in love" a little?

The reason I'm asking this is...

The girl I've met seems great!!! She's fun. She's funny! She's smart. She's beautiful. And most of all... we really seem to click! Like... we don't just "click for a couple of foreigners."  I mean... when we talk, even during our first conversation, it seemed like we'd known each other for years. So... I've decided to go meet her in October. Plans are made.

However... recently... I do not 100% feel like I trust her. It feels like she does not tell me... everything. I'm not even talking about anything major. I just mean... sometimes her stories don't seem to "add up." For example... She and I have talked on the phone to, at least, say good night... every night for the past 3 months. Last Sunday... we messaged each other at 8:30 AM (my time) 3:30 PM (Minsk time). We were just checking in on each other's plans for the day. She said at 3:30 pm (her time) that she was on her way to meet her friend Julia in a cafe. I told her my plans... and we wished each other well.

I did not hear from her at all that night. This is very unusual for "us" but... to be honest... I am just NOT the kind of guy who gets all worked up if a lady goes to sleep without sending me a Night-Night text. I just assumed she went home after the cafe and went to sleep that night without thinking to message me. But then the next day... she messaged me from work in the morning. And she said that she did not get home until late last night.

None of that bothered me. I didn't even think about it. But then... this evening when we finally DID talk on the phone... our conversation was nice. But... it was crystal clear that she was NOT telling me everything. She had told me before that this friend she was going to meet has been acting strange lately. So... when I asked her about how it was... she launched right into how... "Yeah... we just do not have the same connection we once did. I don't know what is wrong with her lately."

But then... I started going the math... and I was like... "Wait... so... you met her at 3:30 in the afternoon... and you didn't get home until late... but... you didn't even enjoy spending time with her?" I wasn't asking her this with any kind of agenda... at this point, it was really just an off the cuff question. I know that if I met someone at, let's say 4:00 in the afternoon... and I just no longer felt the same connection with them... I would not hang out with the person until late at night... on a work night. Hmm... So... I just asked what time she did get home. She said... "I think it was after midnight."

So... She spent 9 hours... chatting with a friend she doesn't even... no way! But... I didn't say anything. I must admit, I do not think of this woman as my concrete GIRLFRIEND... or someone who I feel comfortable asking deep detailed questions about "where she was... who she was with... how long she was there." etc etc. It just seems like... her business.

But... at the same time... do I want to spend the time/money/energy to go meet a woman when I just... can't help but feel like she isn't always throwing straight dice? I have my suspicions as to what the issue might be. I don't think it's something like... she's seeing some other guy... etc. I think it is much more silly. Like... I think she likes to go out for drinks with her friends... and she doesn't want me to think she's an alcoholic or a party girl.

I know I gave you guys a very concrete example here with this lady. But... if it is at all possible... I'd really appreciate it if you could not focus on the granular details of this example. I am more interested in what you guys think about the umbrella question, ,that is... "How do you decide a girl is worth the huge effort of going to meet her, without just getting all serious over the phone... first?"

Like... I don't feel like I have the right to level with this girl and tell her I don't trust that she is always honest with me, when she doesn't really OWE me 100% honesty about every detail. But at the same time... it's hard for me to feel excited about going to meet a girl who may not have the same relationship with "the truth" that I do.

For me I'm in a different boat than those from North America, being a UK guy I can jet off on a three hour flight for a long weekend and total spend out will be about £500 approx. If I stay all week and treat it like a tourist trip thrown in then the total spend out will be about £1k. It's why I say to North America guys what about South America? For you it's in your back yard like the FSU is for us UK & EU guys. Quicker and easier to get to and hence less spend out. Some guys may be hesitant because some South America girls are tanned but some are less so and there are some real hot looking babes out there so I myself wouldn't let that put me off. I personally think a lot of North American guys are crazy to go all the way to the FSU. I would say to North American guys don't bother unless you have a real thing for FSW or really just don't want a South Woman and feel strongly about it.

Visiting one woman of course tends to bring more issues as if course you're reading on that woman and bringing up more women on the hoof is not always easy especially for a relative newbie. For me I generally decided the girls were worth an effort to meet after my first video chat session. We chatted for maybe around and hour or so. You've just got to ask, did I feel I got on well with this woman? Did I find her attractive to look at? Do I feel excited enough to get in a plane to go meet?

That's all, some guys want assurances with long drawn out communication, many video chats etc. Often I find after a month of messaging back and forth and one video chat for me if all went well enough I'm ready to commit to a journey. The girl I think after a month and a video chat will likely start to get thinking of you are really that serious about meeting. It's at that point that they may not wish to be 100 percent with you what is going on in their lives as you've made no commitment to them, they will start to think you are all talk, talk, talk.

If course from the US it's a bigger outlay as said so I don't blame guys for wanting more certainty but unfortunately you're unlikely to find it and more likely to cause more uncertainty by talking on more, depends on the girl but I think in most cases it will likely be counterproductive in my opinion. That to my mind is the trade off for going for a girl such a distance away, it's your choice and so the shortcoming is entirely upon you.

Honestly, the whole go travel and meet girl I don't think is the best way around it all. Better to have an independent income and go live there a while or spend half your time there half in your own country. Other option is to be an English Foreign language teacher there but that depends on if it suits. The thing is unless you are 'there' with her then a relationship over the telephone/Internet is no good to her. She isn't looking for a virtual boyfriend, FSW don't do that and that I'm afraid is what seeking certainly over the internet ends up as. You're not really in her life, you want to be that's why your trying to get into her life over the phone/Internet on all the goings on in her life. The old mantra parroted out here by older members and I think it's true that if you look hard enough you will find a scammer (issues). No person in this world is perfect and she owes you nothing if you are not literally in her life. Newbies and I've done it myself focus on trying or thinking they are in a relationship if only in the early stages in early stages of communication with a FSW that lasts more than a few days. No relationship is there until you meet her in her mind, in the mind if most FSW, you are just getting along well/pleasantly on the phone/Internet. Sure she may flirt etc and be a bit of fun but that's all it is in her mind nothing more.

It's why more recently I don't even bother too much with all the messaging. I just set plans to go visit but tickets and book hotels and then message women a week beforehand and tell them I'm coming and do they want to meet up to see me. Sure lonely keyboard Romeo guys around the world want a virtual girlfriend and many will get strung along for a time and get peed off being used as such and turn to scamming. I prefer to avoid too much off the yak it's time consuming, can get exhausting, it risks getting into the ins& outs as you've often into and at the end of the day no relationship exists until you are there anyway so might as well skip all of that and get to it in my opinion.

[krimster2]

no, you were RIGHT about me, I AM a "dick"
cuz, I'm gonna critique your "moves"
and tell ya why there are some MAJOR fails on your part, created from a lack of knowledge...

first of all...
NO, you don't want to meet her in Georgia!
you WANT to meet her in Belarus
see where she lives, etc.
otherwise, you encentivize her with a free trip, cuz you're gonna PAY for it, right?

I see no real reason for you NOT to go to Belarus, despite the war
(just don't take ANY cannabis products)

and while there, ya wanna go to places like banks in the "downtown" business sections
and also see universities
check out the library
just to see the "wimmin"

you need to learn how to plan and play "optimal moves"
to increase your chances
and not just doin whatever she tells ya to do, which'll be GOOD for her but NOT you!


OTOH,
Georgia wimmin have a certain "type" that I like
but not as many REALLY beautiful wimmin like Belarus/Ukraine/etc
and not the level of diversity of beauty, primarily just one or two "types"

but the point is to keep your "eyes open" in case things don't work out with her
so the trip is not wasted

in the long term,
you should focus on how to change your career trajectory so that you can work remotely
and then actually go and work remotely


second, why a 37 yr old?
by the time you could get her over here, she's already past her peak child bearing period
if she wants a kid, she'll want one right away and there goes your freedom for the next couple of years
then shortly after, she hits 40 and has a "mom's bod"
is this REALLY what you're after?

when I was your age, my preference was for, mid 20-something, Ukrainian farm girls with a HARD BODY and "big-uns" with toned legs and buttocks who were "DOMESTIC GODDESSES"
or 20-22 yr old college students (but who were not DOMESTIC GODDESSES)
but took my breath away, first time I saw them naked!

but hey, that's just me...
to each their own

[Dolmetscher007]

first of all...
NO, you don't want to meet her in Georgia!
you WANT to meet her in Belarus
see where she lives, etc.
otherwise, you encentivize her with a free trip, cuz you're gonna PAY for it, right?

I see no real reason for you NOT to go to Belarus, despite the war
(just don't take ANY cannabis products)

You are 100% correct. I do NOT want to go meet her in Georgia.
I want to meet her in Minsk in Belarus.

It is my understanding, however, that this just ain't happenin' captain'! 

I know that there was an international incident with a grounded passenger airplane and a journalist before the current war even began. I remember the US banned all flights from the US to Belarus. And... in return, Lukashenko revoked US travel into Belarus.

So... for me to go to Belarus, I would have to apply for a Visa. I have zero experience with such things. I just assumed that, since there's a war... poor US <-> Belarusian relations... and the fact that the US State Dept. has a Level 4 'DO NOT TRAVEL' advisory set for Belarus... I just assumed that I would be denied a Visa to go meet a girl.

But... if you know something I don't know about... please let me know. 

Also...

in the long term,
you should focus on how to change your career trajectory so that you can work remotely
and then actually go and work remotely

...As fine luck would have it... I work as a computer programmer, and I DO work 100% remotely. I could easily go to another city in Europe and work from any location that has a strong wi-fi connection. :-)

So... yeah... if you know about how I could go to Minsk without it requiring an act of congress... I am all ears.

Thanks for the response.

I don't think you're an asshole... btw.
Well... maybe a little bit. ;-)

[krimster2]

Your VISA is issued by Belarus, has nothing to do with the USA gov.

you have to do your own trip planning and NOT rely on Expedia, etc

Currently, there are 8 airlines that fly to Minsk.

Belavia (B2)19 routes to MSQ.
Air China (CA)2 routes to MSQ.
Lufthansa (LH)1 route to MSQ.
Uzbekistan Airways (HY)1 route to MSQ.
Flydubai (FZ)1 route to MSQ.
Aeroflot (SU)1 route to MSQ.
Pobeda (DP)1 route to MSQ.
Turkish Airlines (TK)1 route to MSQ.

Research these and look at their departure time/location
and fly with a US airline to their central hub to connect to Belarus

so you see...
the solution is to fly to one of the countries that connects to Minsk and then fly to Minsk from their main hub

my last trip to Russia was through Uzbekistan, (also to get bank accounts/cards that will work in Russia)
getting a working card there is a problem without having to go to some difficult lengths like I did

you could probably bring 10,000 USD and survive off that without using a card, but you'll stay in a private home and not hotel
just change your money while there, but you gotta deal with guardin all that cash!
get a good money belt!

my first travels to FSU were done this way, beause in the old days ATMs were not universal there yet

[Trenchcoat]

Looks like us UK guys can still go to Belarus under the 30 day visa free regime:

http://www.belarus.by/en/travel/travel-visas/visa-free-travel-program-belarus#

Looked pretty hard but couldn't see the US flag among the visa free countries list.

[Dolmetscher007]

Looks like us UK guys can still go to Belarus under the 30 day visa free regime:

http://www.belarus.by/en/travel/travel-visas/visa-free-travel-program-belarus#

Looked pretty hard but couldn't see the US flag among the visa free countries list.

You're correct: http://www.passportindex.org/passport/united-kingdom/

[Dolmetscher007]

Your VISA is issued by Belarus, has nothing to do with the USA gov.

Okay... but... if I apply for a Visa to Belarus... will they grant it? What I mean is... I have the feeling that the Belarusian Gov't must understand that a single man, applying for a simple "Tourist Visa" just to come visit Minsk... surely they don't think I'm coming there, because I just really love Belarusian architecture.

I don't mind going through the process, but... I would like to have some kind of idea of what guys in my... situation... do.

[krimster2]

whenever someone in my family needs a visa, especially to Russia
I get a visa expediter to handle it!
The Russian one I use, I found years ago by just googling and sorting through the list
always got PERFECT and timely service!

I'd pay couple of hundred extra per person, compared to doing direct to embassy, but the expediter will hand carry it to the Russian embassy and put it on top of the "pile"
it's usually a Russian ex-pat who lives near the Russian embassy, but now a USA citizen, who has this bizness in the US of A

google one for belarus...
find out what info you need to fill out the visa applicaton
if you need to provide an address for where you're staying
use your "friend's" address

10 min of your time to fill out application
copy your passport, etc
and pay with a credit card
and make a package to fed-ex your passport to expediter
and two weeks later it comes back to you fed-ex with a visa stamp in your passport
if ya want I can dig up my passports and show you some visa stamps

Belarus doesn't really care that you're chasing pooty tang
they just want your money

check with a Belarus visa expediter, they'll tell you latest and greatest info
just google
and find the "best one"

[Boethius]

I would not travel to Belarus currently.  There is nothing to stop officials from arresting, and sentencing you to prison, on trumped up charges.  Sure, it may be remote.  But if Belarus needs a pawn, best not to give them one.

[krimster2]

don't bring any contraband
buy some pro Russian/BeloRussian lapel pins off ebay (if you don't know what I'm talkin about, I'll show you my box of 'em)
wear these, speak some Russian

you'll look like a Republican
just say good stuff about russian/belorusian "dear leaders" to everyone
condemn sanctions, etc
and you're all set....
and just walk right in

don't be such a "scaredy-cat"
jeez, kids today....

Russia is MUCH more "hard-core" than Belarus
and I've done "insane stuff" in Russia
and came out in one piece

so a pooty-tang chaser will be JUST FINE!!
worst that'll happen, is that you WILL actually get some pooty-tang!

[Dolmetscher007]

I would not travel to Belarus currently.  There is nothing to stop officials from arresting, and sentencing you to prison, on trumped up charges.  Sure, it may be remote.  But if Belarus needs a pawn, best not to give them one.

I 100% agree.
I just saw the American female basketball player get sentenced to 9 years in a labor camp for weed.
I'm not going to Belarus.

[ML]

worst that'll happen, is that you WILL actually get some pooty-tang!

That is certainly not the worst that can happen.

Surely you have kept up with the number of USA folks in prison now in Russia.