Two days and half in Kiev

[docetae]

After our travel to Turkey, that was too long for me to wait four months to see the lady I'm dating again (we can call her Anna).  I decided to use a long week end to see her in Kiev. My goal was simple, to tell her my feeling for her and my hopes for the future.

After a flight to Amsterdam where I was compressed between a pachyderm and the window, I was able to extract myself from the plane and to take my next flight to Kiev.

That was the third time I was in a plane from Ukrainian Airlines and each time, I wonder how they are able to pack so many things in the luggage compartment above our heads ...

I was among the first for passport control and the officer asked me why I was here. My answer: for private reasons. Him : for business ? . Me:  for private reasons. Him : yes but for what ? . Me: to see my girlfriend. Him : where she lives and what her name ? Me : Kiev, and I tell her name, two stamps later, I was getting my bag and was out of the airport surrounded by Taxi Driver smelling everything except good.

No trace of my lady , my interpreter or my driver ....

[Albert]

I was among the first for passport control and the officer asked me why I was here. My answer: for private reasons. Him : for business ? . Me:  for private reasons. Him : yes but for what ? . Me: to see my girlfriend. Him : where she lives and what her name ? Me : Kiev, and I tell her name, two stamps later, I was getting my bag and was out of the airport surrounded by Taxi Driver smelling everything except good.

No trace of my lady , my interpreter or my driver ....

- - - -

For future, I would advise you not to give any lady's name and address to these people.  Nothing good can come of it for the lady and many bad things can come of it.  Use the name and address of some interpreter, some agency person, someone you located on the internet, etc.,  but not your lady friends.

"No trace of my lady , my interpreter or my driver ...."

Oh My God!!!

[DKMM]

That's a helluva trip report.  Is there more or is that it?  On the edge of my seat here...

[wiz]

I was among the first for passport control and the officer asked me why I was here. My answer: for private reasons. Him : for business ? . Me:  for private reasons. Him : yes but for what ? . Me: to see my girlfriend. Him : where she lives and what her name ? Me : Kiev, and I tell her name, two stamps later, I was getting my bag and was out of the airport surrounded by Taxi Driver smelling everything except good.

I have travelled to Ukraine about 12 times for business and pleasure and I do not remember been questioned in such manner. After the Visa abolition they hardly bother to ask you anything now.

In actual fact I never gave them the correct address of where I would stay and when asked I replied that I will stay at the Hotel Ukraina in Kiev and had no more questions.

[docetae]

A short comment ....I always stay in ZHitomirskaya street to meet Anna Vladimirovna. If I keep everything private here, I do the same at the Ukrainian border

After half an hour of wait, I see Anna walking as fast as she can on her high heels (always surprising as fast as she can move ...) with a large smile, she kissed me, ask me how long I was waiting and feel sorry for the delay.

When I have met Anna, she was not speaking a single of english... We go out the airport to the car of my driver and interpreter. About my interpreter, I will highly recommend her services.

She is very efficient and helpful. Finally we arrive in the appartment located close to Independance square, in fact in the same group of building than the agency Kiev Connections !

After taking a shower , we start to talk with Anna ... I have my laptop with the promt software to help us , my Russian is not very good and her English stays basic.

I give her my gift for her, she wanted to give one for me and came back with 3 gifts ! one of them is a leather wallet made in Italia ... she has not seen there was a price in Euro inside, this is the quarter of her salary ... She knew since Turkey that I want to buy a new one and has found exactly the one I wanted.

We start to talk, in fact, I give her a letter that I have written with a translation done by Slava (the one who find the future wife of Thor on this forum) and I finally told her the L word ...

But that was the time to meet Olga to go to supper together. We speak together about many things, to get more details about what happened in our life than in our email/sms exchanges, we finally go back to the apartment and we decide to open the bottle of French champaign I have brought.

End of day 1
Photo : the view from the apartment

[Michelangelo]

I have travelled to Ukraine about 12 times for business and pleasure and I do not remember been questioned in such manner. After the Visa abolition they hardly bother to ask you anything now.

They always ask me.  Even today.

I do better with men than women (the opposite as in the USA).  So i get the in line with a male agent.

I give them the name and address of an ex-girlfriend :-)

[wiz]

They always ask me.  Even today.

I do better with men than women (the opposite as in the USA).  So i get the in line with a male agent.

Michael

I never had any problems really and here are my comments from the trip last March:

On arrival at Boryspil airport I was lucky and our flight was the only one arriving at that time, so the immigration desks were not that full or busy. Cheeky, as always, I went to the last desk on the left which is allocated for cabin crews. I greeted the two Tatyana’s officers (Knew their names from before) in Ukrainian and I got a pleasant smile back and a cheerful welcome, which made a great change from before. Formalities were no more than 1 minute.

While Tatyana (the blondish one, the other has dark short hair) was looking my passport I glanced to the left, looking to another young female officer perched on a stool, with a mini skirt not covering anything and I had a good view of her great legs and more……..Amazing how Ukrainian women, even on an official position, can show their sexuality so overtly! I don’t think here in the west you will find any official person dressed like that!

Tatyana (the dark hair one) jokingly or seriously asked me in very good English if I liked the other officer’s legs…. And when I said they are excellent, she invited the woman to come close. By the way nobody was waiting in a queue behind me so the three of them started having a good joke and banter, while I was waiting for my case to come out. I don’t think it was my personality but probably boredom which made them to be so playful and I was propositioned by the owner of the great legs and extremely attractive face, which gave me her mobile number and asked me to take her out the following Sunday, her day off, which unfortunately was the day of my return. Well about 20 minutes later, disappointed, my case came out and had to get my taxi to the hotel. At that point I remembered a friend’s comments from last year and now I tent to agree with him regarding picking up women by only speaking English to them!

[docetae]

The day after we wake up at 10, we must meet her sister who was coming with Anna's son. Our plan was to visit Kiev today. Finally at 12, her sister was here,with Anna's son and one of her friend. We visited St Sophia, St Andrew and the street just below with the open air market.

You can buy stuff for tourists, but you can find too some antiques, If I had more money with me I guess I will have bring back more old cameras

We went back by Metro and stopped to buy some food. Anna's son was staying with us this evening and we wait that he went to sleep to open a 10 years old bottle of Bordeaux that I have bring with me.

I asked her about her feeling for me, she told me that she can not say now that she is loving me but that I'm interesting her a lot and that was to early for her (I met her for the first time last march and that was our third time together)... I told her that I can not wait forever .... and she will have to come with an answer.

[docetae]

Sunday was my last day in Kiev and we have planned to go to the circus with Anna's son in the afternoon.  I wake up early, asking myself a lot of questions about what to do and decided to go to take a walk.  It was 8am, everybody was still sleeping in the apartment and I didn't know what to do.
What are variables ?
 
- I love this woman,
- She told me she don't love me but that she hopes this day will come
- She wants to have more time with me.
- She is not listed with an agency or has personal ads (I have done extended search on the net)
- She was really troubled when I told her that was perhaps our last time together.
- We have spent a total of 15 days together and corresponded during 6 months.

I went back to the apartment with no answers ....

The circus is Kiev is really great, this is a classical circus show, not something like Le cirque du soleil, I enjoyed my afternoon. The initial plan was that Anna and her son take the bus to go back to the small city where she lives, around 100km from Kiev. She told me she asked her sister to come to stay with her son , so she will stay with me for our last night in Kiev ...
We discussed a lot, she told me that she would like to see Canada or France before taking a decision and if she is not able to get her visa, she asked me to come back to Ukraine ...

So what to think ? some will say that I am perhaps a convenient way for her to travel, other will say that we finally do not stay a long time together and this is just normal that she does not want to tell me more ...

[Albert]

Hi Docetae.  Many factors and problems here.  You have found a gal who is very logical and smart.  But you have invested 6 months and feel your time is short and you want quick decision.  So these two factors lead to the problem.

She is right.  15 days together during 3 trips is not nearly enough time to get to know one another, make declarations of love, and plan a marriage.  Others here have found a gal willing to commit in this time frame or less, and they apparently have some successful marriages, but it is all luck.  They and the gal were not logical.  You have encountered a logical gal, and she simply will not roll the dice.  Good for her.

So what are you to do?  Well it depends on how much vacation time and money you have, and just how desperate you are to have a wife soon.

Based on bringing the child and sister to spend time with you two in Kyiv, she doesn't sound like the scammer type or one who is just looking for free vacation trips, but I (and maybe you) really don't have much to go on here.

In my mind she sounds like a worthwhile gal.  But you may just not have the money and patience to see this through.

Best to you.

[docetae]

This what I think too ... Our plan is to be together again next january in France. I try to get a shengen visa (invitation for a short stay) for her. The main issue is that she does not work now ...

What is hard is that I can not deal with something where I have the knowledge, I discover everything days after days and can not be close as I want it as we are more than 7500km from each one. 

I just feel like learning everything again. You are right, she is a very logical woman, I'm someone who decide by instinct and only after apply a logical reflexion to succeed.  Money is not an issue, Time is as I share the custody of my children and can not be far from home more than 10 days and I have a limited time for vacations.
Edit :  I will just add I'm 32 , She is 28. We are both divorced.

[Bruno]

Our plan is to be together again next january in France. I try to get a shengen visa (invitation for a short stay) for her. The main issue is that she does not work now ...

Not really a problem...

Of course, since you don't reside in Europe, you cannot make a pledge of financial support...

But is she can proof own financial means, it is enough... own financial means can be proved by hotel reservation, cash, cheques and credit cards accepted in Schengen country, an employment contract, bank statements, proof of enrolment on the trade register and/or of professional activity, etc...

If she have the plane ticket ( go and back ), hotel reservation, enough money ( for Belgium, it is 50 euro by day in case of hotel or 30 euro day if stay by friend ( invitation letter needed )), and a travel health insurance ... all will be all right...

If you have friend in France, he can always make a invitation for you or/and make a pledge of financial support...

[docetae]

Bruno, my mother is doing all the paperwork at the town hall, etc. This is a visa on invitation for a short stay and on paper, we will stay at my mother home.  My mother will join the paperwork proving that I'm her son... I will send a letter and photos of me and Anna too and proofs of incomes.

[SANDRO43]

... Our plan is to be together again next january in France. I try to get a shengen visa (invitation for a short stay) for her. The main issue is that she does not work now ...

Doc, if you're willing to meet in France and she has difficulties in getting a visa, you might stretch it to Turkey or Egypt, where FSUW need no visas .

[docetae]

Doc, if you're willing to meet in France and she has difficulties in getting a visa, you might stretch it to Turkey or Egypt, where FSUW need no visas .

We have been to Turkey this summer together ... I want to show her where I have grown up, to meet my friends, etc.
She told me she wants to know more about me as I have done with visits to Ukraine.

[Bruno]

Bruno, my mother is doing all the paperwork at the town hall, etc. This is a visa on invitation for a short stay and on paper, we will stay at my mother home.  My mother will join the paperwork proving that I'm her son... I will send a letter and photos of me and Anna too and proofs of incomes.

Normally, no problem... your mother can make the invitation but i think that you cannot... proofs of income is needed for the pledge of financial support who can only be make by someone having a official address in the country visited... ( the country visited is only the entry point, the visa allow to trip to the other schengen country after )...

Photo's is only needed in case of marriage visa ( or cohabitation visa like in Belgium-Holland )...

By personal experience, it is always better give too much documents that not enough... If i good remember, you live in Canada but you are from France... If you have always the french nationality, it is possible to make a valid pledge of financial support at the French Embassy in Canada.... a little more complex but it work...

Delay : for a first schengen visa, count between 3 to 5 week... if it is not the first, the more short delay is 3 days...

[SANDRO43]

proofs of income is needed for the pledge of financial support who can only be make by someone having a official address in the country visited...

Bruno, I'm not experienced in this since I only read the official literature a couple of years ago, but I seem to remember that what was required consisted in a bank draft in favour of the FSUW (based on the number of days of her stay). Wouldn't that just mean having the necessary amount of money in your bank account, and asking your bank to issue the draft in her favour ?  Or is that for a tourist visa only ? 

[Bruno]

Bruno, I'm not experienced in this since I only read the official literature a couple of years ago, but I seem to remember that what was required consisted in a bank draft in favour of the FSUW (based on the number of days of her stay). Wouldn't that just mean having the necessary amount of money in your bank account, and asking your bank to issue the draft in her favour ?  Or is that for a tourist visa only ?

Your describe method can be used to prove that SHE have enough financial for the trip... a pledge of financial support is something other, SHE don't need to show enough financial since YOU are the garant for HER... and you need to prove your financial situation... If she dissappear during her stay and become illegal, you are responsible... all the medical expense, return expense, etc are at the charge of the garant and this for a periode of 2 year...

For her first trip in Belgium, my ex-wife have give some money to a bank clerk and these have make a false attest who show that she have a lot of money on a bank account... now simply showing a credit card ( American Express, Visa, etc ) is good too... it is not about the real money but more about the disposable money...

From one country to the other, the amount can be different since it is related to the minimum legal income... by example, in France, the minimal amount will be related to the SMIC ( where daily middle price of hotel is added in case she stay at hotel )...

This is a visa on invitation for a short stay and on paper, we will stay at my mother home.

For this, your mother need to make a "Attestation d'accueil"... legal text below :

L'attestation d'accueil constitue le justificatif d'hébergement prévu par les Articles L.211-3 à L.211-10 du Code de l’entrée et du séjour des étrangers et du droit d’asile (Ordonnance 2004-1248 du 24 novembre 2004).

Elle doit être remplie par toute personne résidant en France qui souhaite accueillir un étranger pour un séjour à caractère privé ou familial, d'une durée inférieure ou égale à trois mois. Elle sera jointe au dossier de demande de visa. Elle peut être exigée lors des contrôles à l'entrée du territoire français. Elle est payante (15€) et délivrée par la Mairie dont relève le lieu de résidence du signataire. Elle nécessite la présentation personnelle de l'hébergeant.

L'hébergeant doit fournir à l'appui de sa demande les pièces suivantes :

   1. Justificatif d'identité :
          * Pour un hébergeant français : Carte nationale d'identité ou passeport
          * Pour un hébergeant étranger : Carte de séjour temporaire, carte de résident, certificat de résidence pour Algériens, carte de séjour de ressortissant de la Communauté européenne ou de l'espace économique européen, récépissé de demande de renouvellement d'un des titres de séjour précités, carte diplomatique ou carte spéciale délivrée par le Ministère des Affaires étrangères
   2. Justificatif de domicile :
          * Titre de propriété ou bail locatif et facture d'eau, d'électricité, de gaz ou de téléphone ou quittance de loyer
   3. Justificatif de ressources :
          * Tout document permettant d’apprécier les ressources

What documents are needed from your girlfriend :

   1. Formulaire de demande de visa de court séjour.
   2. Photographie d'identité récente
   3. Document de voyage en cours de validité (validité supérieure d'au moins trois mois à celle du visa sollicité)
   4. Titre de transport pour la totalité du trajet aller et retour (seul un justificatif de réservation est demandé lors du dépôt de la demande)
   5. Justificatifs de la situation socioprofessionnelle : carte professionnelle, bulletin de salaire, certificat de scolarité, carte d'étudiant, titre de pension, de retraite ou de réversion...
   6. Justificatif d'hébergement en France : Attestation d'accueil, réservation d'hôtel, titre de propriété ou bail de location, ou tout document justificatif de la possession ou de la location d'un logement
   7. Justificatifs des moyens d'existence pour la durée du séjour : devises, carte bancaire internationale, chèques de voyage
   8. Contrat d'assistance couvrant les frais médicaux et de rapatriement, le cas échéant

The number 5 can be a problem in your situation...